[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We went camping a couple of times and rented places at the beach for weekends and visited. My dad's family came from Colorado and my mother's from Montana. So we visited there.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Stayed with relatives.

[Assistant] Sure, sure. It actually, I'm an only child, and so I have to say that it sounds terrific.

[User] It was terrific for us.

[Assistant] Difficult for your mom, but how rich.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was terrific for us.

[Assistant] Difficult for your mom, but how rich.

[User] It was. It was. We were never, ever bored.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] We always had somebody to play with, especially the first four of us. And we're still very close. Yeah.

[Assistant] Wonderful. Yeah. So where were you when you went to high school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We always had somebody to play with, especially the first four of us. And we're still very close. Yeah.

[Assistant] Wonderful. Yeah. So where were you when you went to high school?

[User] My freshman year was the year I went to a Catholic high school.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] I went to St. Bernard's, which was in, um, well, it's just outside of Westchester in Southern California. And then we moved. Then we went, then I went one year to Inglewood High School, which was very traumatic because I actually had, I had loved that school, St. Bernard's, it was a new school. It was small. It was what they called co-institutional. So there were girls, there was, there were two wings, a girls' wing and a boys' wing. So we never saw each other.

[Assistant] Not even for algebra?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I went to St. Bernard's, which was in, um, well, it's just outside of Westchester in Southern California. And then we moved. Then we went, then I went one year to Inglewood High School, which was very traumatic because I actually had, I had loved that school, St. Bernard's, it was a new school. It was small. It was what they called co-institutional. So there were girls, there was, there were two wings, a girls' wing and a boys' wing. So we never saw each other.

[Assistant] Not even for algebra?

[User] Nothing. Nothing. So it was all girls and it was small. It was that each year they had started in each year and they added a year. And I think the year I was there, there were freshmen, sophomores, and juniors. And then, then so but I only got to go one year because then they bought the house in Inglewood and we had to go to the Inglewood schools and that was a school of 1,000 kids.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Where I didn't know a soul and.

[Assistant] That's hard when you're sophomore in high school. The cliques have already formed and you're cutting.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Nothing. Nothing. So it was all girls and it was small. It was that each year they had started in each year and they added a year. And I think the year I was there, there were freshmen, sophomores, and juniors. And then, then so but I only got to go one year because then they bought the house in Inglewood and we had to go to the Inglewood schools and that was a school of 1,000 kids.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Where I didn't know a soul and.

[Assistant] That's hard when you're sophomore in high school. The cliques have already formed and you're cutting.

[User] And then my junior year we moved back to Pullman, Washington. So I actually changed.

[Assistant] Oh, three different?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then my junior year we moved back to Pullman, Washington. So I actually changed.

[Assistant] Oh, three different?

[User] I changed schools in the middle of the sixth, the middle of the seventh, the end of the eighth, the end of the ninth and the end of the 10th grades.

[Assistant] How difficult.

[User] It was really hard.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. Your family saved you, I think. I mean, that you might have been lonely at school, but.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I changed schools in the middle of the sixth, the middle of the seventh, the end of the eighth, the end of the ninth and the end of the 10th grades.

[Assistant] How difficult.

[User] It was really hard.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. Your family saved you, I think. I mean, that you might have been lonely at school, but.

[User] But we had each other.

[Assistant] You had each other when you went home, and you were all going through that, those transitions in the mid school year.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was really hard.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. Your family saved you, I think. I mean, that you might have been lonely at school, but.

[User] But we had each other.

[Assistant] You had each other when you went home, and you were all going through that, those transitions in the mid school year.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. Did you, when you were in high school, did you have summer jobs or did you work part time during the school year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But we had each other.

[Assistant] You had each other when you went home, and you were all going through that, those transitions in the mid school year.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. Did you, when you were in high school, did you have summer jobs or did you work part time during the school year?

[User] Yes, when we, well, I always babysat from the time I was in the sixth grade, really, all of my, the four oldest ones. We were fabulous babysitters. We had, we were very much in demand. We babysat for $0.25 an hour.

[Assistant] Not for your own siblings but for other people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, when we, well, I always babysat from the time I was in the sixth grade, really, all of my, the four oldest ones. We were fabulous babysitters. We had, we were very much in demand. We babysat for $0.25 an hour.

[Assistant] Not for your own siblings but for other people?

[User] For other people, because we had so much experience.

[Assistant] Sure. Sure.

[User] So I had always babysat. And then when we moved to Pullman, I got, uh, I worked in. Pullman is the home of Washington State University, so I had a job in the banquet halls. They would put on banquets and then they would hire high school kids to like bus tables and serve meals.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, sure.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] For other people, because we had so much experience.

[Assistant] Sure. Sure.

[User] So I had always babysat. And then when we moved to Pullman, I got, uh, I worked in. Pullman is the home of Washington State University, so I had a job in the banquet halls. They would put on banquets and then they would hire high school kids to like bus tables and serve meals.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, sure.

[User] One summer, I worked in the admissions office filing. That was the most boring thing possible. And I think that's, that was it for high school.

[Assistant] And in high school, did you study foreign languages?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I had always babysat. And then when we moved to Pullman, I got, uh, I worked in. Pullman is the home of Washington State University, so I had a job in the banquet halls. They would put on banquets and then they would hire high school kids to like bus tables and serve meals.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, sure.

[User] One summer, I worked in the admissions office filing. That was the most boring thing possible. And I think that's, that was it for high school.

[Assistant] And in high school, did you study foreign languages?

[User] I studied Spanish as a freshman.

[Assistant] Did you have a choice? Did you choose Spanish?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I studied Spanish as a freshman.

[Assistant] Did you have a choice? Did you choose Spanish?

[User] It was really interesting. It was this Catholic school. And I remember my dad, my Jewish dad, took me to register. And you took placement tests. You had to take placement tests to get in. And they said, and according to how you placed, I guess, on the language part of the placement test, they, the high people were supposed to take Latin and then the second tier was French and the third tier was Spanish.

[Assistant] Oh dear.

[User] But I really wanted. From the time we moved to Southern California, in Vancouver there were African American kids in the junior high that I went to, but there were no Latinos at all at the time. And I, my mother and I, my mother also was quite fascinated by the whole Mexican influence in Southern California. And I just loved that. And I really wanted to take Spanish and they were going to put me into Latin. And my dad said, no, she wants to take Spanish.

[Assistant] Good for him.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was really interesting. It was this Catholic school. And I remember my dad, my Jewish dad, took me to register. And you took placement tests. You had to take placement tests to get in. And they said, and according to how you placed, I guess, on the language part of the placement test, they, the high people were supposed to take Latin and then the second tier was French and the third tier was Spanish.

[Assistant] Oh dear.

[User] But I really wanted. From the time we moved to Southern California, in Vancouver there were African American kids in the junior high that I went to, but there were no Latinos at all at the time. And I, my mother and I, my mother also was quite fascinated by the whole Mexican influence in Southern California. And I just loved that. And I really wanted to take Spanish and they were going to put me into Latin. And my dad said, no, she wants to take Spanish.

[Assistant] Good for him.

[User] And so I did. So I took four years of high school Spanish and it was just so fun.

[Assistant] Wonderful, wonderful. And then you went to college?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I really wanted. From the time we moved to Southern California, in Vancouver there were African American kids in the junior high that I went to, but there were no Latinos at all at the time. And I, my mother and I, my mother also was quite fascinated by the whole Mexican influence in Southern California. And I just loved that. And I really wanted to take Spanish and they were going to put me into Latin. And my dad said, no, she wants to take Spanish.

[Assistant] Good for him.

[User] And so I did. So I took four years of high school Spanish and it was just so fun.

[Assistant] Wonderful, wonderful. And then you went to college?

[User] Well, after college, I went.

[Assistant] Or after high school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, after college, I went.

[Assistant] Or after high school?

[User] After high school, I went into the convent.

[Assistant] You did?

[User] My one, my one year at the Catholic school. So I went in to this Catholic school that I had gone to. There were three different religious communities that taught there and each, uh, and we had home rooms.

[Assistant] And now you're talking about your one year in Catholic school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My one, my one year at the Catholic school. So I went in to this Catholic school that I had gone to. There were three different religious communities that taught there and each, uh, and we had home rooms.

[Assistant] And now you're talking about your one year in Catholic school?

[User] One year. I think that if I had gone more, if I had gone to like six or even probably four years of Catholic school, I would have never gone into the convent. But my one year. So I became quite close with some of the nuns that, um, that like the community that I joined that one of them had taught me was my homeroom teacher. And then there was a drama and speech teacher who had been one of the Little Rascals.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And she was fabulous. She was so good.

[Assistant] And what was the order?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And she was fabulous. She was so good.

[Assistant] And what was the order?

[User] Daughters of Mary and Joseph.

[Assistant] Huh.

[User] They're a Belgian order, but all of the, most of the nuns that were here at the time were from Ireland. And they were young. They were very, you know, they were probably all under 33 at the time.

[Assistant] Oh wow, what a vibrant bunch. And so you left Pullman, Washington, to come back?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Daughters of Mary and Joseph.

[Assistant] Huh.

[User] They're a Belgian order, but all of the, most of the nuns that were here at the time were from Ireland. And they were young. They were very, you know, they were probably all under 33 at the time.

[Assistant] Oh wow, what a vibrant bunch. And so you left Pullman, Washington, to come back?

[User] To Palos Verdes was where that novitiate was.

[Assistant] Uh huh. Okay. So for one year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They're a Belgian order, but all of the, most of the nuns that were here at the time were from Ireland. And they were young. They were very, you know, they were probably all under 33 at the time.

[Assistant] Oh wow, what a vibrant bunch. And so you left Pullman, Washington, to come back?

[User] To Palos Verdes was where that novitiate was.

[Assistant] Uh huh. Okay. So for one year?

[User] No, no, no. The novitiate was three years. And then, um.

[Assistant] During which you were doing what?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mostly we were going to college. Mostly we were taking theology and philosophy.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] We did get to take one year of French because it was a Belgium community.

[Assistant] Oh yes.

[User] And, you know, some things like music appreciation, but it was almost all. And we did have an English class. We went to Mount Saint Mary's College, which was near there. And then that was three years. And then you made vows, temporary vows for five years.

[Assistant] And those were vows of?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, you know, some things like music appreciation, but it was almost all. And we did have an English class. We went to Mount Saint Mary's College, which was near there. And then that was three years. And then you made vows, temporary vows for five years.

[Assistant] And those were vows of?

[User] Poverty, chastity and obedience. And then we went to, still in Southern California, we were supposed to, you know, then go full time to college and, um, it was a teaching order in California. What they did was teach in Catholic schools, which I really did not want to teach in a Catholic school, because I had a real bias against, I mean, such a public education school.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So, um. I was in what was called, that was called junior eight for one year. And then I was sent up to San Francisco to teach, never have, not having a BA, not having had any education classes.

[Assistant] And this is when, in the late 1960s?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Poverty, chastity and obedience. And then we went to, still in Southern California, we were supposed to, you know, then go full time to college and, um, it was a teaching order in California. What they did was teach in Catholic schools, which I really did not want to teach in a Catholic school, because I had a real bias against, I mean, such a public education school.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So, um. I was in what was called, that was called junior eight for one year. And then I was sent up to San Francisco to teach, never have, not having a BA, not having had any education classes.

[Assistant] And this is when, in the late 1960s?

[User] This would have been the late sixties.

[Assistant] And you're wearing a habit.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So, um. I was in what was called, that was called junior eight for one year. And then I was sent up to San Francisco to teach, never have, not having a BA, not having had any education classes.

[Assistant] And this is when, in the late 1960s?

[User] This would have been the late sixties.

[Assistant] And you're wearing a habit.

[User] Yeah, well, we had a modified. Well, yes. When we went up there we had a habit and then while I was there, the habit changed and we were wearing street clothes, but we had a little veil.

[Assistant] Little veil, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This would have been the late sixties.

[Assistant] And you're wearing a habit.

[User] Yeah, well, we had a modified. Well, yes. When we went up there we had a habit and then while I was there, the habit changed and we were wearing street clothes, but we had a little veil.

[Assistant] Little veil, yeah.

[User] So I taught third grade at this school that was in the western addition in San Francisco, which before World War II had been a Japanese. It's where Japantown is in San Francisco, but all the Japanese had been interned and then the area had been, um, at the time that I was there, the neighborhood was pretty African American.

[Assistant] Oh, the Japanese people did not come back?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I taught third grade at this school that was in the western addition in San Francisco, which before World War II had been a Japanese. It's where Japantown is in San Francisco, but all the Japanese had been interned and then the area had been, um, at the time that I was there, the neighborhood was pretty African American.

[Assistant] Oh, the Japanese people did not come back?

[User] Their houses were gone.

[Assistant] Oh, really?

[User] Yeah. So they then, actually that was in 19-. It must have been. Let's see, it must have been around 1969, '68 or '69 was when they were building Japantown. And so, but the school that I taught in was a Japanese mission. So it was a school for Japanese children and Japanese was taught there every day. There was a job. They got like a half an hour of Japanese a day.

[Assistant] And these were kids who were born here in America?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Their houses were gone.

[Assistant] Oh, really?

[User] Yeah. So they then, actually that was in 19-. It must have been. Let's see, it must have been around 1969, '68 or '69 was when they were building Japantown. And so, but the school that I taught in was a Japanese mission. So it was a school for Japanese children and Japanese was taught there every day. There was a job. They got like a half an hour of Japanese a day.

[Assistant] And these were kids who were born here in America?

[User] Yes, but their parents may not have been. Most of them, even their parents, most of their parents had been born here.

[Assistant] Hmm. But there was a sense that there was a value to keeping alive the heritage of that language.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. So they then, actually that was in 19-. It must have been. Let's see, it must have been around 1969, '68 or '69 was when they were building Japantown. And so, but the school that I taught in was a Japanese mission. So it was a school for Japanese children and Japanese was taught there every day. There was a job. They got like a half an hour of Japanese a day.

[Assistant] And these were kids who were born here in America?

[User] Yes, but their parents may not have been. Most of them, even their parents, most of their parents had been born here.

[Assistant] Hmm. But there was a sense that there was a value to keeping alive the heritage of that language.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. How rare.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, but their parents may not have been. Most of them, even their parents, most of their parents had been born here.

[Assistant] Hmm. But there was a sense that there was a value to keeping alive the heritage of that language.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. How rare.

[User] Yeah, it was very. So I taught there for one year and I really hated it.

[Assistant] Oh, you did?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. How rare.

[User] Yeah, it was very. So I taught there for one year and I really hated it.

[Assistant] Oh, you did?

[User] And I was, and I was terrible. Oh, I was terrible. I didn't know what I was doing.

[Assistant] How many kids did you have?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it was very. So I taught there for one year and I really hated it.

[Assistant] Oh, you did?

[User] And I was, and I was terrible. Oh, I was terrible. I didn't know what I was doing.

[Assistant] How many kids did you have?

[User] I had 38 third graders.

[Assistant] Okay. They're about eight years old.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were eight and there were three African Americans from the neighborhood.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And there was one girl, little girl who was Filipina. Her mother was Filipina and her father was a Merchant Marine American, and everybody else was Japanese. And I knew I didn't know. I mean, the difference between me and other people like me was that because my parents were teachers and I had had a really good public school education, I knew that I was crap.

[Assistant] Oh, oh.

[User] It was awful.

[Assistant] What was the hardest thing? Was it disciplining the kids?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And there was one girl, little girl who was Filipina. Her mother was Filipina and her father was a Merchant Marine American, and everybody else was Japanese. And I knew I didn't know. I mean, the difference between me and other people like me was that because my parents were teachers and I had had a really good public school education, I knew that I was crap.

[Assistant] Oh, oh.

[User] It was awful.

[Assistant] What was the hardest thing? Was it disciplining the kids?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. 38 kids is a lot.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. 38 kids is a lot.

[User] 38 kids is a lot. Yeah. And I, yeah, I didn't know what I was doing. I mean, actually the kids did. It's amazing that kids learn in spite of their teachers.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] You know, the kids did learn.

[Assistant] I think back to my first year teaching, I'd say exactly the same. They survived and they learned something I think.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, the kids did learn.

[Assistant] I think back to my first year teaching, I'd say exactly the same. They survived and they learned something I think.

[User] They did. You know, I mean, they, well, they passed the tests and, you know, but I really hated it. So and I was living in a house where, um, I was 22. I might have been 23. Yeah, I think I was. I was 22 and everybody else, everybody in the house except for me was Irish.

[Assistant] From Ireland?

[User] From Ireland, except for one nun who actually had been at the high school where I had gone to high school, who was getting her master's in theology at USF.

[Assistant] And she lived, she shared the?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They did. You know, I mean, they, well, they passed the tests and, you know, but I really hated it. So and I was living in a house where, um, I was 22. I might have been 23. Yeah, I think I was. I was 22 and everybody else, everybody in the house except for me was Irish.

[Assistant] From Ireland?

[User] From Ireland, except for one nun who actually had been at the high school where I had gone to high school, who was getting her master's in theology at USF.

[Assistant] And she lived, she shared the?

[User] She shared the house, but she, so.

[Assistant] Did you have to cook? Did you take turns cooking?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She shared the house, but she, so.

[Assistant] Did you have to cook? Did you take turns cooking?

[User] No, we had a cook. Well, except on weekends, yeah, but I didn't have any friends, you know, I was very lonely, really lonely. And it was quite difficult. And you know, you know, I mean there are huge cultural differences between growing up in Ireland and growing up in the U.S.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And you know, so it was, it was hard. And then what happened was this nun who was getting her master's at USF had this vision that she, for nuns to be doing parish work rather than being just in hospitals and in schools. And she wanted them to really be part. Her idea was to be part of a team and a parish and work like the priests and plan the liturgies and do adult education and, you know, whatever needed to be done in the parish. So at that time, the Santa Rosa diocese had a reputation for being quite liberal, and the bishop did. And so she came. She came up to and made an appointment with, to talk to the bishop of the Santa Rosa diocese and the chancellor of the diocese, who is like the administrator, is my, is now my husband.

[Assistant] Oh! And he was a priest at that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, we had a cook. Well, except on weekends, yeah, but I didn't have any friends, you know, I was very lonely, really lonely. And it was quite difficult. And you know, you know, I mean there are huge cultural differences between growing up in Ireland and growing up in the U.S.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And you know, so it was, it was hard. And then what happened was this nun who was getting her master's at USF had this vision that she, for nuns to be doing parish work rather than being just in hospitals and in schools. And she wanted them to really be part. Her idea was to be part of a team and a parish and work like the priests and plan the liturgies and do adult education and, you know, whatever needed to be done in the parish. So at that time, the Santa Rosa diocese had a reputation for being quite liberal, and the bishop did. And so she came. She came up to and made an appointment with, to talk to the bishop of the Santa Rosa diocese and the chancellor of the diocese, who is like the administrator, is my, is now my husband.

[Assistant] Oh! And he was a priest at that time?

[User] He was the priest.

[Assistant] I love it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And you know, so it was, it was hard. And then what happened was this nun who was getting her master's at USF had this vision that she, for nuns to be doing parish work rather than being just in hospitals and in schools. And she wanted them to really be part. Her idea was to be part of a team and a parish and work like the priests and plan the liturgies and do adult education and, you know, whatever needed to be done in the parish. So at that time, the Santa Rosa diocese had a reputation for being quite liberal, and the bishop did. And so she came. She came up to and made an appointment with, to talk to the bishop of the Santa Rosa diocese and the chancellor of the diocese, who is like the administrator, is my, is now my husband.

[Assistant] Oh! And he was a priest at that time?

[User] He was the priest.

[Assistant] I love it.

[User] And he was the one that she talked with first and he said, oh, that's a great idea. But what we really need, besides what she wanted to do, was somebody who, is somebody who would like to work with the Spanish speaking. And she knew I really, really wanted to do that. And so she came back and said, you know, do you want to do this? And I would have done anything to get out.

[Assistant] Out of the classroom.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Of the classroom, yes, yes. So, um, she, I went up there with her the next time and we met this Monsignor Cox and.

[Assistant] Monsignor.

[User] Monsignor, and the bishop. And he said, you know, why don't you, why don't you work part time and go to school part. No, you couldn't, I wanted to get my BA.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] I, you know, I mean, I was. And he said, you could go to school at night, and work during, you know.

[Assistant] And your work would be parish work, not classroom work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Monsignor, and the bishop. And he said, you know, why don't you, why don't you work part time and go to school part. No, you couldn't, I wanted to get my BA.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] I, you know, I mean, I was. And he said, you could go to school at night, and work during, you know.

[Assistant] And your work would be parish work, not classroom work?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So maybe that would be doable.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I, you know, I mean, I was. And he said, you could go to school at night, and work during, you know.

[Assistant] And your work would be parish work, not classroom work?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So maybe that would be doable.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Teaching and going to school at the same time is very, very difficult. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I wrote to the superior general and said, you know, I wanted to do this. And she said, um, you know, I really had only been in community one year.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] She said, no, you haven't been in community long enough. You need to, uh, you can't go off by yourself. I mean, this, this woman, this nun, her name was Karen. Her idea was that we would rent a tract house in a neighborhood and live with the people.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] And she was like, no, you can't do this. So I wrote.

[Assistant] But Monsignor said.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She said, no, you haven't been in community long enough. You need to, uh, you can't go off by yourself. I mean, this, this woman, this nun, her name was Karen. Her idea was that we would rent a tract house in a neighborhood and live with the people.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] And she was like, no, you can't do this. So I wrote.

[Assistant] But Monsignor said.

[User] So I wrote back and told her all the reasons why I didn't really want to stay in third grade, why I was really, how difficult it was. And so she said, okay, you've got three choices. You can go to school full time and get your BA. You can go up to Santa Rosa or you could teach a higher grade. You probably need to teach a higher grade level.

[Assistant] Junior high. That's the absolute worst.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then I went back up to Santa Rosa and Monsignor Cox talked me into, you know, doing the work up there and getting my BA, which I did do in, I think it was. I mean, I had gone, I had done, besides all the theology and philosophy, I'd had one year full of full-time school and then a summer school. Two summer schools, I think. So it took me I think another two years going at night.

[Assistant] At night?

[User] I think I only went once or twice a week.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It's an hour, about an hour from Santa Rosa to San Francisco.

[Assistant] And so you finished up at, um, San Francisco?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think I only went once or twice a week.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It's an hour, about an hour from Santa Rosa to San Francisco.

[Assistant] And so you finished up at, um, San Francisco?

[User] So I finished at USF, at the University of San Francisco, which is a Jesuit. It wasn't a good education compared to, you know, what my siblings did, but what the hell? I got the degree.

[Assistant] Yes. And your degree was in what?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's an hour, about an hour from Santa Rosa to San Francisco.

[Assistant] And so you finished up at, um, San Francisco?

[User] So I finished at USF, at the University of San Francisco, which is a Jesuit. It wasn't a good education compared to, you know, what my siblings did, but what the hell? I got the degree.

[Assistant] Yes. And your degree was in what?

[User] It was in sociology.

[Assistant] Aha. Not education.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I finished at USF, at the University of San Francisco, which is a Jesuit. It wasn't a good education compared to, you know, what my siblings did, but what the hell? I got the degree.

[Assistant] Yes. And your degree was in what?

[User] It was in sociology.

[Assistant] Aha. Not education.

[User] Not education, no.

[Assistant] Yeah, sociology could be sort of anything.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not education, no.

[Assistant] Yeah, sociology could be sort of anything.

[User] Yeah. And I really wanted to do, I mean, that was just so fascinating.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] It was. And I did really love studying it. It was really interesting.

[Assistant] So how did you wind up in the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And I really wanted to do, I mean, that was just so fascinating.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] It was. And I did really love studying it. It was really interesting.

[Assistant] So how did you wind up in the Peace Corps?

[User] So I worked in Santa Rosa for three years and um.

[Assistant] And doing sort of community social work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was. And I did really love studying it. It was really interesting.

[Assistant] So how did you wind up in the Peace Corps?

[User] So I worked in Santa Rosa for three years and um.

[Assistant] And doing sort of community social work?

[User] In this, yeah, in this parish. And so the way it worked out was we did have this house and we had a little house in this kind of blue collar neighborhood that was, and we had two parishes. I was, so at the, so Gerry Cox, my husband, was the only priest in the entire Santa Rosa diocese, which goes from Santa Rosa to the Oregon border and includes.

[Assistant] Oh, that's huge.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Napa, Lakes, Sonoma, Mendocino, Trinity and Del Norte Counties. Geographically huge.

[Assistant] Enormous.

[User] And he was the only priest in the diocese that spoke Spanish.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User]
And so, um, he. And he had just been, he left the chancery office and was, had just gotten at his parish, which instead of building a church, he built what he called Resurrection Community Center, which was this multipurpose building that had stacked chairs that you could and an altar on wheels. And but a lot of, um, very modern, but very kind of spiritual building. But you could use it for everything. So I worked with him and then the other nun worked in this more traditional parish. So I stayed there for three years and he actually only stayed for one year. And then he became the head of Catholic Social Service. And so at the end of three years, there were two things that happened. I always say there were two things that just made it clear to me that I was going to leave.

And the first one was there was this, there was a terrible earthquake, a seven point, I think it was a seven point earthquake in Santa Rosa in, must have been like 1968, '68 or '69. Yes, it must have been '69 because it was in the spring and it was like about 7:00 at night. And I was in a house in a discussion group with all married couples. And this earthquake happened and the power went out. And the house where we were, the woman had a glass, an antique glass collection. And there was just this glass crashing, flying. And the ground was literally felt like the ocean.

[Assistant] Yeah, you're showing with your hands the undulating.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was literally, I've never been so scared. It's the scariest thing I've ever experienced. And all these married couples grabbed on to each other and I was standing there by myself and I said, no, this is not what I want. I do not want to be standing alone.

[Assistant] Alone, yeah.

[User] And it was very clear to me.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then.

[Assistant] You needed a partner.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it was very clear to me.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then.

[Assistant] You needed a partner.

[User] I needed a partner. Yeah. And the other thing that had had happened was that it was, you know, a time of great turmoil in the church. Radical changes going on.

[Assistant] Vatican II had just happened a few years before.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then.

[Assistant] You needed a partner.

[User] I needed a partner. Yeah. And the other thing that had had happened was that it was, you know, a time of great turmoil in the church. Radical changes going on.

[Assistant] Vatican II had just happened a few years before.

[User] Vatican II had happened. And the community that I belonged to, Belgian, Belgium was a very liberal church. And we had houses in England, Ireland, Belgium, Africa and California. And we were very avant garde, very liberal. We got out of, we were one of the first groups to not have a habit. We had started to do these other kinds of works, not just teach, but it was very hard for a lot of the nuns, for a lot of those Irish nuns, especially the older ones.

[Assistant] Well, that's not what they thought they signed up for.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Vatican II had happened. And the community that I belonged to, Belgian, Belgium was a very liberal church. And we had houses in England, Ireland, Belgium, Africa and California. And we were very avant garde, very liberal. We got out of, we were one of the first groups to not have a habit. We had started to do these other kinds of works, not just teach, but it was very hard for a lot of the nuns, for a lot of those Irish nuns, especially the older ones.

[Assistant] Well, that's not what they thought they signed up for.

[User] No. And it wasn't their theology.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So we had this meeting in the spring and every house was supposed to present a position paper about what did they see, what was their vision for the community. So there were four of us who were, there were three of us living together in Santa Rosa, doing this parish work. And another nun in Ukiah who was living with a different community but doing the same thing. So we came up with. We said that the essence of religious life is not poverty, chastity and obedience. It is community service and prayer.

[Assistant] The community service part, the service part is what Peace Corps is all about.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So we had this meeting in the spring and every house was supposed to present a position paper about what did they see, what was their vision for the community. So there were four of us who were, there were three of us living together in Santa Rosa, doing this parish work. And another nun in Ukiah who was living with a different community but doing the same thing. So we came up with. We said that the essence of religious life is not poverty, chastity and obedience. It is community service and prayer.

[Assistant] The community service part, the service part is what Peace Corps is all about.

[User] Right. And, well, it's community, comma, service and prayer.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] And that we did not owe obedience to the bishop. That the obedience was, you know, anyway, it was. So I don't know why they decided I should be the one to present this paper. I was the youngest one in the house. And so anyway, you know, there was just. There was this nun that I had lived with when I was going, the one year that I went to college who was, she did the fundraising for the community. And she was like a, she was a John Birch Republican. And so we used to have these tremendous fights at the, um, at the dinner table, which because nobody else ever took her on, but you know.

[Assistant] But you would.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it just became so clear to me that if I stay here, I am going to turn into a bitch because I am going to just be constantly fighting.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I don't want to. I mean, I that's kind of who I, it's very easy for me and I'm not afraid of confrontation. I've never been afraid of confrontation. But I do not want to spend my life in confrontation and I don't want to spend my life fighting. And I don't need these women to live the life that I want to live. And if I stay here, why am I trying to convince them to do something they don't want to do when I don't need them?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So I decided I was going to leave. Those two incidents. I decided I was going to leave.

[Assistant] So at this point, how old are you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I don't want to. I mean, I that's kind of who I, it's very easy for me and I'm not afraid of confrontation. I've never been afraid of confrontation. But I do not want to spend my life in confrontation and I don't want to spend my life fighting. And I don't need these women to live the life that I want to live. And if I stay here, why am I trying to convince them to do something they don't want to do when I don't need them?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So I decided I was going to leave. Those two incidents. I decided I was going to leave.

[Assistant] So at this point, how old are you?

[User] I was 25 when I left.

[Assistant] 25 when you left the convent.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I decided I was going to leave. Those two incidents. I decided I was going to leave.

[Assistant] So at this point, how old are you?

[User] I was 25 when I left.

[Assistant] 25 when you left the convent.

[User] And went into the Peace Corps. And so I was.

[Assistant] But then Monsignor Cox is wandering around here somewhere, and he must be going through similar questioning of his role.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was 25 when I left.

[Assistant] 25 when you left the convent.

[User] And went into the Peace Corps. And so I was.

[Assistant] But then Monsignor Cox is wandering around here somewhere, and he must be going through similar questioning of his role.

[User] So he is 20 years older than I am. So I was 27, 25, and he was 45. And actually I had known that after I had been there about a month, he invited me. He was doing this. There was a fundraising campaign that was going on throughout the diocese, and he had to drive up 101 and take this these materials to all the parishes along 101 between Santa Rosa and the Oregon border. So he said, you know, would you like to come along and it will give you an idea of what the diocese is like? So, you know, we had this like three day car trip and, you know, I would stay in the convents and he would stay in the rectories. But we really got to know each other on that trip.

[Assistant] Yes. As can only happen when you're driving in a car with another person, there's a unique opportunity to talk.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But he, I mean, I never thought anything would come of it. First of all, there was the huge age difference, and he was a priest. And I didn't have that. I didn't have any intention of leaving.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I certainly never thought he would. But then around the time that I was thinking I was going to leave, he invited me. There was a series, it was like a kind of a theology philosophy one night a week lecture with people from all over the world that the Graduate Theological Union at Berkley was sponsoring. And he asked me if I would want to do that with him. And in the meantime, he was, yeah, he was also really struggling with like, is this, you know, is this what I want? Is this, is this the church I want to be part of? And so, um, actually, and one of the ones that we went to was on Paulo Freire, who turned out to be. When I got to Honduras, it was so fortuitous that I knew about Paulo Freire because the group that I worked with, he was their gospel.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] So anyway, when we. We started going to that and one day we, um, he then. One day we stopped at Stinson Beach and took a walk on the beach. And all of a sudden the relationship was no longer just platonic. But even so, I didn't think he would leave the priesthood. I just couldn't, I mean, he had been ordained for 23 years and he had gone into the seminary after the, out of the eighth grade.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. So he had never had the high school sock hops, the dating.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It just sounded like it was cool, like a really interesting program.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And a third place, some place in New York I think, but I can't remember where. And I got accepted at all of them. And then I remembered the Peace Corps. And I thought, I don't. First I thought, oh, I'll go to this school at San Jose State. But then I thought, you know, my Spanish isn't really fluent, I'm not really bilingual. I'm going to be in there with all these Chicanos. I'm going to be the only Anglo. I don't really speak Spanish. I don't think, I think I should do that after the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] And then I said, I would, I wanted to go to any Spanish speaking country. I didn't care where.

[Assistant] So they asked you if you had a preference?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And a third place, some place in New York I think, but I can't remember where. And I got accepted at all of them. And then I remembered the Peace Corps. And I thought, I don't. First I thought, oh, I'll go to this school at San Jose State. But then I thought, you know, my Spanish isn't really fluent, I'm not really bilingual. I'm going to be in there with all these Chicanos. I'm going to be the only Anglo. I don't really speak Spanish. I don't think, I think I should do that after the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] And then I said, I would, I wanted to go to any Spanish speaking country. I didn't care where.

[Assistant] So they asked you if you had a preference?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And you said any Spanish?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then I said, I would, I wanted to go to any Spanish speaking country. I didn't care where.

[Assistant] So they asked you if you had a preference?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And you said any Spanish?

[User] Latin American country, yeah. And I didn't even know where Honduras was. I had to look it up on the map.

[Assistant] Yeah, of course.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And you said any Spanish?

[User] Latin American country, yeah. And I didn't even know where Honduras was. I had to look it up on the map.

[Assistant] Yeah, of course.

[User] So then I got this invitation before I left to, um. And I, and I decided I wasn't actually going to leave. I was just going to go into the Peace Corps. And I had a meeting with the woman who was, there was like a leadership team, and she was the person in the north. So I went to San Francisco and told her that I wanted to go into the Peace Corps and I wasn't formal. If they would give me permission, I was going to go into the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Now, you were asking permission of the order?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Latin American country, yeah. And I didn't even know where Honduras was. I had to look it up on the map.

[Assistant] Yeah, of course.

[User] So then I got this invitation before I left to, um. And I, and I decided I wasn't actually going to leave. I was just going to go into the Peace Corps. And I had a meeting with the woman who was, there was like a leadership team, and she was the person in the north. So I went to San Francisco and told her that I wanted to go into the Peace Corps and I wasn't formal. If they would give me permission, I was going to go into the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Now, you were asking permission of the order?

[User] I was just telling them.

[Assistant] You were still a?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So then I got this invitation before I left to, um. And I, and I decided I wasn't actually going to leave. I was just going to go into the Peace Corps. And I had a meeting with the woman who was, there was like a leadership team, and she was the person in the north. So I went to San Francisco and told her that I wanted to go into the Peace Corps and I wasn't formal. If they would give me permission, I was going to go into the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Now, you were asking permission of the order?

[User] I was just telling them.

[Assistant] You were still a?

[User] I was still a nun.

[Assistant] A nun. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was still a nun.

[Assistant] A nun. Yeah.

[User] And it was actually the, um, my, the fifth year. It was time to take my final vows. But at that point, they didn't have everybody take their final vows automatically after five years. You took them, you take them when you wanted to. So I said I wasn't going to take my final vows, but I wasn't going to leave. But I was going to, I would go into the Peace Corps as a Daughter of Mary and Joseph.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] And she said okay. And so I went home. I left. My family lived in, my parents lived in Spokane. And I went, I think, like the middle of July, we were supposed to go report to Puerto Rico.

[Assistant] And this would be 1970?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And she said okay. And so I went home. I left. My family lived in, my parents lived in Spokane. And I went, I think, like the middle of July, we were supposed to go report to Puerto Rico.

[Assistant] And this would be 1970?

[User] '71. July. Yeah. So I was home and I got a letter from them, from the superior, from the Mother Superior. The General. The Superior General she was called, saying Sister So-and-so has informed me that you're leaving. Here is your, when you went in you took a dowry of $500. It was called a dowry.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Here's your dowry. That was it.

[Assistant] You were out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] '71. July. Yeah. So I was home and I got a letter from them, from the superior, from the Mother Superior. The General. The Superior General she was called, saying Sister So-and-so has informed me that you're leaving. Here is your, when you went in you took a dowry of $500. It was called a dowry.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Here's your dowry. That was it.

[Assistant] You were out?

[User] I was out.

[Assistant] And that was not what you had intended.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was out.

[Assistant] And that was not what you had intended.

[User] It was not what I had intended, but it was, you know, absolutely the best thing.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Because I would have dilly dallied around and, you know, been conflicted and. But I was incensed, you know, that they didn't even say, you know, we love you, or I mean, I'd been there eight years.

[Assistant] Yeah. Here's your 500 bucks.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Here's your $500.

[Assistant] Goodbye.

[User] I mean, the thing was that I had been in the novitiate and then we only had three houses in San Francisco, so almost everybody was in Southern California, so they didn't really know me. But still anyway, so that was that. And then my thing with Gerry was, you know, we had said that we loved each other.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But.

[Assistant] And he's still a priest?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But.

[Assistant] And he's still a priest?

[User] He was still a priest. And then this, the people that were doing the school of social work got too radical and the school wouldn't let them do it. So his job that he thought he was going to at San Jose State no longer existed.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] So he ended up. Let's see. So I left and I went to Puerto Rico.

[Assistant] For Peace Corps training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was still a priest. And then this, the people that were doing the school of social work got too radical and the school wouldn't let them do it. So his job that he thought he was going to at San Jose State no longer existed.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] So he ended up. Let's see. So I left and I went to Puerto Rico.

[Assistant] For Peace Corps training?

[User] For a Peace Corps training.

[Assistant] And we'll get, I want to get back to that. But meanwhile, what's happening with the monsignor?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, so he was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what I'm going to do. And I was like, you know, whatever. You know, you need to do what you need to do. I didn't really think he would leave, and I didn't think he would, uh. And that was okay. I mean, I wasn't heartbroken. I loved him.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But, you know, it was whatever. Whatever you decide to do is what you need to do. So I left and it was up in the air. And so my, so I went. My sister, who was two years younger than I, was going to school at this Fort Wright Holy Names College for Women in Spokane. And they had an Upward Bound program. And the two of us had worked as house mothers the previous summer. And it was just such a blast for these high school girls that were African Americans, Native Americans, and a few white, poor white kids. And then so I did that for about six weeks. And then Gerry came up to visit me, and at that point, he thought he was going to leave.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] Then I left.

[Assistant] You left to go to Peace Corps training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But, you know, it was whatever. Whatever you decide to do is what you need to do. So I left and it was up in the air. And so my, so I went. My sister, who was two years younger than I, was going to school at this Fort Wright Holy Names College for Women in Spokane. And they had an Upward Bound program. And the two of us had worked as house mothers the previous summer. And it was just such a blast for these high school girls that were African Americans, Native Americans, and a few white, poor white kids. And then so I did that for about six weeks. And then Gerry came up to visit me, and at that point, he thought he was going to leave.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] Then I left.

[Assistant] You left to go to Peace Corps training?

[User] I left. Went to Florida. First, I went to New York to visit a friend. And then I went to, uh, left from Florida. And I was terrified.

[Assistant] Now, wait a minute. When you say left, when you say you left from Florida, was there, did the Peace Corps training group gather in Florida and then go together?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Then I left.

[Assistant] You left to go to Peace Corps training?

[User] I left. Went to Florida. First, I went to New York to visit a friend. And then I went to, uh, left from Florida. And I was terrified.

[Assistant] Now, wait a minute. When you say left, when you say you left from Florida, was there, did the Peace Corps training group gather in Florida and then go together?

[User] No, everybody just had their own. Everybody arrived individually.

[Assistant] Okay, so you all met up together for the first time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I left. Went to Florida. First, I went to New York to visit a friend. And then I went to, uh, left from Florida. And I was terrified.

[Assistant] Now, wait a minute. When you say left, when you say you left from Florida, was there, did the Peace Corps training group gather in Florida and then go together?

[User] No, everybody just had their own. Everybody arrived individually.

[Assistant] Okay, so you all met up together for the first time.

[User] In Puerto Rico.

[Assistant] In Puerto Rico, okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. So I had, I got to, I remember I got to the airport in Miami at like 3:00 in the afternoon, and my plane didn't leave until, it left early in the morning. Like, I think I, I remember I got a hotel room at the airport. And I just sat in that hotel room and cried.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] I was so scared. I was terrified.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And I thought, if I pick up the phone and call Gerry, I won't go. So I cannot pick up this telephone. And then I got there, and for some.

[Assistant] You got to Puerto Rico?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was so scared. I was terrified.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And I thought, if I pick up the phone and call Gerry, I won't go. So I cannot pick up this telephone. And then I got there, and for some.

[Assistant] You got to Puerto Rico?

[User] I got the plane and got to Puerto Rico. And at the airport, I met this couple whose names I can't remember. And they were, they were also from California and they were teachers. And they said, oh, we have to go get a pina colada. I didn't even know what a pina colada was. And so then it was okay. As soon as I met them, it was okay. And I think we got there at night for some reason. We stayed. I remember it being night when we got there and we stayed overnight and then we went to Ponce. They must have picked us up together. They must have taken us together to Ponce.

[Assistant] And then the orientation and things began?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I thought, if I pick up the phone and call Gerry, I won't go. So I cannot pick up this telephone. And then I got there, and for some.

[Assistant] You got to Puerto Rico?

[User] I got the plane and got to Puerto Rico. And at the airport, I met this couple whose names I can't remember. And they were, they were also from California and they were teachers. And they said, oh, we have to go get a pina colada. I didn't even know what a pina colada was. And so then it was okay. As soon as I met them, it was okay. And I think we got there at night for some reason. We stayed. I remember it being night when we got there and we stayed overnight and then we went to Ponce. They must have picked us up together. They must have taken us together to Ponce.

[Assistant] And then the orientation and things began?

[User] Everything was in Ponce, yeah.

[Assistant] Did your whole training take place in the area of Ponce?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I got the plane and got to Puerto Rico. And at the airport, I met this couple whose names I can't remember. And they were, they were also from California and they were teachers. And they said, oh, we have to go get a pina colada. I didn't even know what a pina colada was. And so then it was okay. As soon as I met them, it was okay. And I think we got there at night for some reason. We stayed. I remember it being night when we got there and we stayed overnight and then we went to Ponce. They must have picked us up together. They must have taken us together to Ponce.

[Assistant] And then the orientation and things began?

[User] Everything was in Ponce, yeah.

[Assistant] Did your whole training take place in the area of Ponce?

[User] It did. And but I didn't stay the whole time because I did speak more Spanish than, even though I wasn't bilingual.

[Assistant] You had had a couple of years of Spanish.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It did. And but I didn't stay the whole time because I did speak more Spanish than, even though I wasn't bilingual.

[Assistant] You had had a couple of years of Spanish.

[User] I had four years of high school Spanish and a couple of years of college.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And I really, really was motivated.

[Assistant] Right. But there had been some, there had been some time lapse.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I really, really was motivated.

[Assistant] Right. But there had been some, there had been some time lapse.

[User] Yeah. But my Spanish was much better than anybody, than people who, other people. And there was another woman there, Linda Freed. She had grown up, she was, she had grown up in Ecuador. Her parents are Jewish Americans who had gone to Ecuador. She just, she's one of the few people that I'm still connected with. I think during World War II, and her father had a big, uh, something to do with cars and mechanics. And so she had grown up in Ecuador, so she was completely bilingual and we became good friends and she only stayed like maybe a month, and I stayed about six weeks. And then they sent us both into Honduras early.

[Assistant] Oh, really?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Because the training, it sounds like the training was largely language?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. But my Spanish was much better than anybody, than people who, other people. And there was another woman there, Linda Freed. She had grown up, she was, she had grown up in Ecuador. Her parents are Jewish Americans who had gone to Ecuador. She just, she's one of the few people that I'm still connected with. I think during World War II, and her father had a big, uh, something to do with cars and mechanics. And so she had grown up in Ecuador, so she was completely bilingual and we became good friends and she only stayed like maybe a month, and I stayed about six weeks. And then they sent us both into Honduras early.

[Assistant] Oh, really?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Because the training, it sounds like the training was largely language?

[User] The training was largely language.

[Assistant] And that language was Spanish of course.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Because the training, it sounds like the training was largely language?

[User] The training was largely language.

[Assistant] And that language was Spanish of course.

[User] Yes. Yeah.

[Assistant] What else went on in training in Ponce? And this is, I have to say, this is absolutely unique that some people get to finish training before others in a group. It's, I've never heard of that happening before.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The training was largely language.

[Assistant] And that language was Spanish of course.

[User] Yes. Yeah.

[Assistant] What else went on in training in Ponce? And this is, I have to say, this is absolutely unique that some people get to finish training before others in a group. It's, I've never heard of that happening before.

[User] Yeah. Well, what, it was pretty interesting. When we first got there, all the girls, all the young women were in one house.

[Assistant] How many, how many people are we talking about?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a pretty big group because it was nurses, foresters, fisher, fishing.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Well, health. And most of them were nurses. I think there were four of us in this nutrition program. And then a pretty good group of foresters.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] I would say we were maybe 40, 40 or 50.

[Assistant] Okay. But what you had in common there was all the study of Spanish. Beyond that, people were going to be off into different, in terms of job training and preparation for your work.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, health. And most of them were nurses. I think there were four of us in this nutrition program. And then a pretty good group of foresters.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] I would say we were maybe 40, 40 or 50.

[Assistant] Okay. But what you had in common there was all the study of Spanish. Beyond that, people were going to be off into different, in terms of job training and preparation for your work.

[User] So there wasn't. So most of the time was language. After we were there for a week, everybody had to go out and knock on doors. They assigned you neighborhoods and you had to go knock on doors and find yourself a family to live with.

[Assistant] Ah, find yourself a family. Oh!


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I would say we were maybe 40, 40 or 50.

[Assistant] Okay. But what you had in common there was all the study of Spanish. Beyond that, people were going to be off into different, in terms of job training and preparation for your work.

[User] So there wasn't. So most of the time was language. After we were there for a week, everybody had to go out and knock on doors. They assigned you neighborhoods and you had to go knock on doors and find yourself a family to live with.

[Assistant] Ah, find yourself a family. Oh!

[User] Yeah. I mean, I couldn't believe that.

[Assistant] After a week?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So there wasn't. So most of the time was language. After we were there for a week, everybody had to go out and knock on doors. They assigned you neighborhoods and you had to go knock on doors and find yourself a family to live with.

[Assistant] Ah, find yourself a family. Oh!

[User] Yeah. I mean, I couldn't believe that.

[Assistant] After a week?

[User] After a, well, maybe it was two weeks. It must have been two weeks.

[Assistant] People who had less Spanish than you did, how did that work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. I mean, I couldn't believe that.

[Assistant] After a week?

[User] After a, well, maybe it was two weeks. It must have been two weeks.

[Assistant] People who had less Spanish than you did, how did that work?

[User] I mean, I could do it, but I was like. I have to say, though, that language training was amazing.

[Assistant] How did they do it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] After a, well, maybe it was two weeks. It must have been two weeks.

[Assistant] People who had less Spanish than you did, how did that work?

[User] I mean, I could do it, but I was like. I have to say, though, that language training was amazing.

[Assistant] How did they do it?

[User] Well, they must have gotten, they must have been given, you know, here's what you say when you. But literally just, and the people in the neighborhoods that they assigned us had had Peace Corps volunteers living with them before.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. So they knew.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, I could do it, but I was like. I have to say, though, that language training was amazing.

[Assistant] How did they do it?

[User] Well, they must have gotten, they must have been given, you know, here's what you say when you. But literally just, and the people in the neighborhoods that they assigned us had had Peace Corps volunteers living with them before.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. So they knew.

[User] They were kind of primed, but they didn't give you addresses. They just said, you go to this neighborhood, you go to this neighborhood, you go to this neighborhood.

[Assistant] And you were to go on your, on your own?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were kind of primed, but they didn't give you addresses. They just said, you go to this neighborhood, you go to this neighborhood, you go to this neighborhood.

[Assistant] And you were to go on your, on your own?

[User] Yeah, well, married couples went together.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] Single people went on their own.

[Assistant] Whew. Wow. It's baptism by fire, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, well, married couples went together.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] Single people went on their own.

[Assistant] Whew. Wow. It's baptism by fire, right?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Whew. So. So what was your experience? You knocked on a door?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Whew. So. So what was your experience? You knocked on a door?

[User] I knocked on the door. And actually, the first door I knocked on. I was also slightly older than the other volunteers because most of them had just graduated from college and I was 25.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So I was like four years older than they were, three or four years older.

[Assistant] You know, we're in our seventies now and looking back at that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I knocked on the door. And actually, the first door I knocked on. I was also slightly older than the other volunteers because most of them had just graduated from college and I was 25.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So I was like four years older than they were, three or four years older.

[Assistant] You know, we're in our seventies now and looking back at that.

[User] It's nothing.

[Assistant] What's the difference between 21 and 25? Not much, but in fact, there is a bit. And you'd been out in the world doing things.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I was like four years older than they were, three or four years older.

[Assistant] You know, we're in our seventies now and looking back at that.

[User] It's nothing.

[Assistant] What's the difference between 21 and 25? Not much, but in fact, there is a bit. And you'd been out in the world doing things.

[User] Yeah, I had been. I might. And my life experience was so, my adult life experience was so different than theirs because I hadn't gone to the college like they had. I was, you know, in love with a man that was 20 years older than I.

[Assistant] Yes. And you had, you had a year of teaching under your belt.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's nothing.

[Assistant] What's the difference between 21 and 25? Not much, but in fact, there is a bit. And you'd been out in the world doing things.

[User] Yeah, I had been. I might. And my life experience was so, my adult life experience was so different than theirs because I hadn't gone to the college like they had. I was, you know, in love with a man that was 20 years older than I.

[Assistant] Yes. And you had, you had a year of teaching under your belt.

[User] And I had three years of social work.

[Assistant] That's right. That's right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I knocked on this door and this woman opened it and I, you know, I could communicate. I was pretty good. My grammar wasn't perfect, but I could, I could communicate. And I told her what I was looking for, and she said she was. Her children were grown and gone, except for one son who was might have been like 11. And it turned out that her husband, it was just so classic Latin America. She was dying to have me move in there because she really wanted company. And, you know, I could talk a little bit. I could talk and could understand her.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So it wasn't like getting somebody that couldn't speak any Spanish. And it turned out that her husband had a mistress and a whole other family. And so every day, you know, she would tell me about this and cry and. But it turned out that then the husband would come home because he was kind of interested, not sexually interested in me, but it was just sort of a curiosity to have this gringa living there. So he kind of wanted to talk to me and find out what things were like, so he would come home. So she was happy. And you know, he drove us. He took a, we did, we did a couple of weekend trips because he wanted to show me different things. And I think, I think I had told them that I had been a nun. So that also was a real curiosity to him.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] So but every single night, she fixed the exact same thing for dinner. Exactly.

[Assistant] And what was it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it wasn't like getting somebody that couldn't speak any Spanish. And it turned out that her husband had a mistress and a whole other family. And so every day, you know, she would tell me about this and cry and. But it turned out that then the husband would come home because he was kind of interested, not sexually interested in me, but it was just sort of a curiosity to have this gringa living there. So he kind of wanted to talk to me and find out what things were like, so he would come home. So she was happy. And you know, he drove us. He took a, we did, we did a couple of weekend trips because he wanted to show me different things. And I think, I think I had told them that I had been a nun. So that also was a real curiosity to him.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] So but every single night, she fixed the exact same thing for dinner. Exactly.

[Assistant] And what was it?

[User] It was fried chicken, which was fine with me because I loved that, canned beans like they eat. In Puerto Rico, they just eat canned beans, and rice.

[Assistant] Huh. No vegetables?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So but every single night, she fixed the exact same thing for dinner. Exactly.

[Assistant] And what was it?

[User] It was fried chicken, which was fine with me because I loved that, canned beans like they eat. In Puerto Rico, they just eat canned beans, and rice.

[Assistant] Huh. No vegetables?

[User] No vegetables, no salads. Fruit, there was fruit, like whatever it was in season.

[Assistant] But no greens?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was fried chicken, which was fine with me because I loved that, canned beans like they eat. In Puerto Rico, they just eat canned beans, and rice.

[Assistant] Huh. No vegetables?

[User] No vegetables, no salads. Fruit, there was fruit, like whatever it was in season.

[Assistant] But no greens?

[User] No. I don't remember the other meals, but every single night the dinner was exactly the same.

[Assistant] What did you have to drink?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No vegetables, no salads. Fruit, there was fruit, like whatever it was in season.

[Assistant] But no greens?

[User] No. I don't remember the other meals, but every single night the dinner was exactly the same.

[Assistant] What did you have to drink?

[User] Uh.

[Assistant] Water or was there a fresco of some sort?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. I don't remember the other meals, but every single night the dinner was exactly the same.

[Assistant] What did you have to drink?

[User] Uh.

[Assistant] Water or was there a fresco of some sort?

[User] You know, I'm, it might have been. I can't remember. I can't remember. We had coffee, you know, coffee in the, coffee in the mornings. There was a lot of fresh fruit.

[Assistant] Sounds pretty good.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh.

[Assistant] Water or was there a fresco of some sort?

[User] You know, I'm, it might have been. I can't remember. I can't remember. We had coffee, you know, coffee in the, coffee in the mornings. There was a lot of fresh fruit.

[Assistant] Sounds pretty good.

[User] It was pretty good. And there were other people who were, you know, and the house was nice.

[Assistant] So you stayed with this woman and her children.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I'm, it might have been. I can't remember. I can't remember. We had coffee, you know, coffee in the, coffee in the mornings. There was a lot of fresh fruit.

[Assistant] Sounds pretty good.

[User] It was pretty good. And there were other people who were, you know, and the house was nice.

[Assistant] So you stayed with this woman and her children.

[User] And occasionally the guy.

[Assistant] The son, the 11 year old son, and the husband who was sometimes there for? And in the evening.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was pretty good. And there were other people who were, you know, and the house was nice.

[Assistant] So you stayed with this woman and her children.

[User] And occasionally the guy.

[Assistant] The son, the 11 year old son, and the husband who was sometimes there for? And in the evening.

[User] I think it was about six weeks.

[Assistant] Six weeks. But in the daytime, you went to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And occasionally the guy.

[Assistant] The son, the 11 year old son, and the husband who was sometimes there for? And in the evening.

[User] I think it was about six weeks.

[Assistant] Six weeks. But in the daytime, you went to?

[User] To the training center.

[Assistant] Back to the training center with the other Peace Corps volunteers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] To the training center.

[Assistant] Back to the training center with the other Peace Corps volunteers.

[User] Right. So there we had language classes and we had some cultural, what they called cultural sensitivity training, which people thought was just a joke.

[Assistant] Hmm.

[User] I thought it was kind of interesting, but I was kind of into that. But most people thought it was really ridiculous.

[Assistant] What sorts of things?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I thought it was kind of interesting, but I was kind of into that. But most people thought it was really ridiculous.

[Assistant] What sorts of things?

[User] I think they were, you know, like, it was like body language and it was returned volunteers who were doing it. Well, there was one that we all really liked, this woman named Arietta. I think her name was Arietta Wilson. And she had been. She had been in a public health program as well. I don't she was.

[Assistant] In Honduras?

[User] In Honduras.

[Assistant] Oh, cool. Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think they were, you know, like, it was like body language and it was returned volunteers who were doing it. Well, there was one that we all really liked, this woman named Arietta. I think her name was Arietta Wilson. And she had been. She had been in a public health program as well. I don't she was.

[Assistant] In Honduras?

[User] In Honduras.

[Assistant] Oh, cool. Okay.

[User] She was like a returned volunteer that they hired.

[Assistant] Those are people with credibility, that have actually been there themselves. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We didn't do any, there was nothing. There was no physical component to it like these people that told us about the first group that went into. There was nothing physical.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I don't remember any. I think that there must have been some nutrition stuff on nutrition, because that's what we were supposed to be, was nutritionists.

[Assistant] Nutritionists.

[User] And none of us were.

[Assistant] But there were just, there were just a few of you who are going to be doing that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I don't remember any. I think that there must have been some nutrition stuff on nutrition, because that's what we were supposed to be, was nutritionists.

[Assistant] Nutritionists.

[User] And none of us were.

[Assistant] But there were just, there were just a few of you who are going to be doing that.

[User] There was myself, Linda. This girl who, young woman who didn't end up staying. And we knew she would never make it. Um, there might, I think there might have just been three of us that were doing that.

[Assistant] So it's hard for, I think, for a training program to specialize with such a small number of people.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And none of us were.

[Assistant] But there were just, there were just a few of you who are going to be doing that.

[User] There was myself, Linda. This girl who, young woman who didn't end up staying. And we knew she would never make it. Um, there might, I think there might have just been three of us that were doing that.

[Assistant] So it's hard for, I think, for a training program to specialize with such a small number of people.

[User] Yeah. And I think that they did give us some, um, I think we had, they gave us some nutrition training and maybe some, you know, like community organizing type techniques. But most of the group was nurses. Almost, almost all the women were nurses.

[Assistant] Yeah. And, um, was there any talk of deselection?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was myself, Linda. This girl who, young woman who didn't end up staying. And we knew she would never make it. Um, there might, I think there might have just been three of us that were doing that.

[Assistant] So it's hard for, I think, for a training program to specialize with such a small number of people.

[User] Yeah. And I think that they did give us some, um, I think we had, they gave us some nutrition training and maybe some, you know, like community organizing type techniques. But most of the group was nurses. Almost, almost all the women were nurses.

[Assistant] Yeah. And, um, was there any talk of deselection?

[User] Oh, yeah. Yeah. And some people were deselected. So there was a psychiatrist there.

[Assistant] I was going to ask if you had psychiatrists come and talk to you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And I think that they did give us some, um, I think we had, they gave us some nutrition training and maybe some, you know, like community organizing type techniques. But most of the group was nurses. Almost, almost all the women were nurses.

[Assistant] Yeah. And, um, was there any talk of deselection?

[User] Oh, yeah. Yeah. And some people were deselected. So there was a psychiatrist there.

[Assistant] I was going to ask if you had psychiatrists come and talk to you.

[User] There was a psychiatrist, yes. And he was the same person that had been at the staging.

[Assistant] And the staging had happened?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah. Yeah. And some people were deselected. So there was a psychiatrist there.

[Assistant] I was going to ask if you had psychiatrists come and talk to you.

[User] There was a psychiatrist, yes. And he was the same person that had been at the staging.

[Assistant] And the staging had happened?

[User] In Denver.

[Assistant] Oh, we hadn't talked about that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was a psychiatrist, yes. And he was the same person that had been at the staging.

[Assistant] And the staging had happened?

[User] In Denver.

[Assistant] Oh, we hadn't talked about that.

[User] Yeah, I forgot about that.

[Assistant] So you had met, you had all met up somewhere in Denver?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I forgot about that.

[Assistant] So you had met, you had all met up somewhere in Denver?

[User] Well, it wasn't like. I think they were different stagings in different parts of the country.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Because. [background noise] I hope that doesn't go on all night. There was, um, I don't remember meeting anybody that was in the training when I was in Denver, and that was all so programmed. There wasn't really any time to, I don't remember any time to mingle, but we all had individual conferences with the psychiatrist at the staging. And that same that same psychiatrist was there in Ponce. And I think he was there the whole time.

[Assistant] Oh. Observing you in groups?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it wasn't like. I think they were different stagings in different parts of the country.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Because. [background noise] I hope that doesn't go on all night. There was, um, I don't remember meeting anybody that was in the training when I was in Denver, and that was all so programmed. There wasn't really any time to, I don't remember any time to mingle, but we all had individual conferences with the psychiatrist at the staging. And that same that same psychiatrist was there in Ponce. And I think he was there the whole time.

[Assistant] Oh. Observing you in groups?

[User] I think so. I think so. I wouldn't swear to it, but I remember meeting with him individually. We met with him individually again.

[Assistant] Yeah. Did you have to do any peer ratings of passing judgment on one another?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because. [background noise] I hope that doesn't go on all night. There was, um, I don't remember meeting anybody that was in the training when I was in Denver, and that was all so programmed. There wasn't really any time to, I don't remember any time to mingle, but we all had individual conferences with the psychiatrist at the staging. And that same that same psychiatrist was there in Ponce. And I think he was there the whole time.

[Assistant] Oh. Observing you in groups?

[User] I think so. I think so. I wouldn't swear to it, but I remember meeting with him individually. We met with him individually again.

[Assistant] Yeah. Did you have to do any peer ratings of passing judgment on one another?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Who maybe ought not to go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Who maybe ought not to go?

[User] No, no. At least I don't remember it. Did you do that?

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] Oh, no. We didn't have any of that.

[Assistant] Painful. And so some people were deselected.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. At least I don't remember it. Did you do that?

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] Oh, no. We didn't have any of that.

[Assistant] Painful. And so some people were deselected.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Do you remember how you felt about that? Were there, were there, were there objections from those who remained?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, no. We didn't have any of that.

[Assistant] Painful. And so some people were deselected.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Do you remember how you felt about that? Were there, were there, were there objections from those who remained?

[User] I don't remember. I don't. I think we all kind of felt like they would have never made it. And there was one person who we, oh, actually, she was another one of the nutritionists that, she was the fourth. That at least Linda and I were like, this woman is nuts. She was young. And we really thought she should have been deselected. And in fact, she had a total nervous breakdown. And they had to, they had to, they had to ship her out of the country. There were, I don't remember it being a big thing.

[Assistant] So if people were deselected, they deselected themselves?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Do you remember how you felt about that? Were there, were there, were there objections from those who remained?

[User] I don't remember. I don't. I think we all kind of felt like they would have never made it. And there was one person who we, oh, actually, she was another one of the nutritionists that, she was the fourth. That at least Linda and I were like, this woman is nuts. She was young. And we really thought she should have been deselected. And in fact, she had a total nervous breakdown. And they had to, they had to, they had to ship her out of the country. There were, I don't remember it being a big thing.

[Assistant] So if people were deselected, they deselected themselves?

[User] Yeah. I mean, some people just decided they didn't want. I remember this woman who was at the time, she was probably, I think she was in her fifties actually. Single, quite glamorous, you know, makeup. And she approached me and said, Kathy, I think it would be great if we got a house together in Honduras and let's get a parrot. We'll get a house. And I mean, she just had this total, totally unrealistic picture of what Honduras was going to be like. And she didn't go.

[Assistant] She didn't go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember. I don't. I think we all kind of felt like they would have never made it. And there was one person who we, oh, actually, she was another one of the nutritionists that, she was the fourth. That at least Linda and I were like, this woman is nuts. She was young. And we really thought she should have been deselected. And in fact, she had a total nervous breakdown. And they had to, they had to, they had to ship her out of the country. There were, I don't remember it being a big thing.

[Assistant] So if people were deselected, they deselected themselves?

[User] Yeah. I mean, some people just decided they didn't want. I remember this woman who was at the time, she was probably, I think she was in her fifties actually. Single, quite glamorous, you know, makeup. And she approached me and said, Kathy, I think it would be great if we got a house together in Honduras and let's get a parrot. We'll get a house. And I mean, she just had this total, totally unrealistic picture of what Honduras was going to be like. And she didn't go.

[Assistant] She didn't go?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you and a couple of others.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. I mean, some people just decided they didn't want. I remember this woman who was at the time, she was probably, I think she was in her fifties actually. Single, quite glamorous, you know, makeup. And she approached me and said, Kathy, I think it would be great if we got a house together in Honduras and let's get a parrot. We'll get a house. And I mean, she just had this total, totally unrealistic picture of what Honduras was going to be like. And she didn't go.

[Assistant] She didn't go?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you and a couple of others.

[User] Just Linda. Linda and I went early.

[Assistant] Went early. You left training early because they decided you were ready. They must have also, on the other end, needed you to begin something?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you and a couple of others.

[User] Just Linda. Linda and I went early.

[Assistant] Went early. You left training early because they decided you were ready. They must have also, on the other end, needed you to begin something?

[User] I guess they were ready to, um. So the program that we were assigned to was Caritas, was with Caritas, which is the international relief arm of the Catholic Church.

[Assistant] Yeah. So it's an acronym, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't think so. Caritas is charity in Latin.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So it's like the, um, it's like the AID of the Catholic Church and, um, which to me was totally ironic because I really did not want to be involved in the Catholic Church. I mean, I wasn't anti Catholic, but I just, you know, I mean, I thought I was going into the Peace Corps. That was going to be totally.

[Assistant] Different.

[User] Yeah. And, um, and it was pretty interesting because Linda was an atheist. And, um, so but this was the most, these people were so smart, these people that worked for Caritas. I, we were in awe of them.

[Assistant] Huh. Who were they?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And, um, and it was pretty interesting because Linda was an atheist. And, um, so but this was the most, these people were so smart, these people that worked for Caritas. I, we were in awe of them.

[Assistant] Huh. Who were they?

[User] Well, the head of Catholic Relief Services. Well, no, they were. Catholic Relief Services is like the AID and Caritas was a program under Catholic Relief Services.

[Assistant] Okay, okay.

[User] And the guy who was the director of Catholic Relief Services was from the US and his name was Sal Pinsino. And then there were these Honduran men who were in their thirties, and they had offices all around the country, like five or six, and they were all Christian Democrats.

[Assistant] And that's a political party in Honduras?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the head of Catholic Relief Services. Well, no, they were. Catholic Relief Services is like the AID and Caritas was a program under Catholic Relief Services.

[Assistant] Okay, okay.

[User] And the guy who was the director of Catholic Relief Services was from the US and his name was Sal Pinsino. And then there were these Honduran men who were in their thirties, and they had offices all around the country, like five or six, and they were all Christian Democrats.

[Assistant] And that's a political party in Honduras?

[User] That's a political party which had no, I mean, at that point, they'd been, they were they were forming a new party. They were forming a new political party that was, you know, a radical. It was a revolutionary party. And they had this unbelievably sophisticated plan for organizing. And so it was the Catholic Church. It was, um. It was liberation theology. And what they started with was what they called. And this was happening actually all over Latin America, not just in Honduras. Celebrate, Los Celebradores de la Palabra. So there were not.

[Assistant] Can you translate that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's a political party which had no, I mean, at that point, they'd been, they were they were forming a new party. They were forming a new political party that was, you know, a radical. It was a revolutionary party. And they had this unbelievably sophisticated plan for organizing. And so it was the Catholic Church. It was, um. It was liberation theology. And what they started with was what they called. And this was happening actually all over Latin America, not just in Honduras. Celebrate, Los Celebradores de la Palabra. So there were not.

[Assistant] Can you translate that?

[User] Celebradores, the Celebrators of the Word.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So there aren't enough, you know, it's a big spread-out country for Central America, sparsely populated. Only one paved highway in the entire country at the time.

[Assistant] And would that be the Pan-American Highway crossing from Guatemala through Honduras?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] United Fruit. Standard brand, United Fruit.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] Chiquita banana. Honduras is the classic banana republic.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And it was United Fruit and the highway went from the port where they shipped the bananas out.

[Assistant] Now which, uh, Honduras has two coasts, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Chiquita banana. Honduras is the classic banana republic.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And it was United Fruit and the highway went from the port where they shipped the bananas out.

[Assistant] Now which, uh, Honduras has two coasts, right?

[User] Yeah. So if we look at map.

[Assistant] Let's look at the map. We've got a computer here with a map and so we're looking at it here. So we have the Pacific coast on the south and the Atlantic on the north.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it was United Fruit and the highway went from the port where they shipped the bananas out.

[Assistant] Now which, uh, Honduras has two coasts, right?

[User] Yeah. So if we look at map.

[Assistant] Let's look at the map. We've got a computer here with a map and so we're looking at it here. So we have the Pacific coast on the south and the Atlantic on the north.

[User] And so this is where most of United Fruit had their stuff, their stuff around San Pedro Sula.

[Assistant] And San Pedro Sula is in the north, on the Atlantic. It's that part of Latin, of Central America, which goes east and west. We think of it as north and south. But here the Atlantic is on the north and the Pacific is on the south.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. So if we look at map.

[Assistant] Let's look at the map. We've got a computer here with a map and so we're looking at it here. So we have the Pacific coast on the south and the Atlantic on the north.

[User] And so this is where most of United Fruit had their stuff, their stuff around San Pedro Sula.

[Assistant] And San Pedro Sula is in the north, on the Atlantic. It's that part of Latin, of Central America, which goes east and west. We think of it as north and south. But here the Atlantic is on the north and the Pacific is on the south.

[User] Yes. So I'm always confused. And so.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you're looking at the port up here and San Pedro Sula.