[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so this is where most of United Fruit had their stuff, their stuff around San Pedro Sula.

[Assistant] And San Pedro Sula is in the north, on the Atlantic. It's that part of Latin, of Central America, which goes east and west. We think of it as north and south. But here the Atlantic is on the north and the Pacific is on the south.

[User] Yes. So I'm always confused. And so.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you're looking at the port up here and San Pedro Sula.

[User] Then Tegucigalpa, here's the capital. So the one highway went from San Pedro Sula to through Tegucigalpa down here, which was where they shipped the bananas.

[Assistant] And when you're saying down here, we're talking about the Pacific coast.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. So I'm always confused. And so.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you're looking at the port up here and San Pedro Sula.

[User] Then Tegucigalpa, here's the capital. So the one highway went from San Pedro Sula to through Tegucigalpa down here, which was where they shipped the bananas.

[Assistant] And when you're saying down here, we're talking about the Pacific coast.

[User] I think. I think.

[Assistant] A small, small part of Honduras has, um, it's got a huge Atlantic coastline, but a very small Pacific coastline.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think. I think.

[Assistant] A small, small part of Honduras has, um, it's got a huge Atlantic coastline, but a very small Pacific coastline.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So. What was I talking about?

[Assistant] Well, the, the highway, that there was the only one highway.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So. What was I talking about?

[Assistant] Well, the, the highway, that there was the only one highway.

[User] Oh, right. So the priests. So. So you've got this big, you know, I mean, it's bigger, much. Look at how tiny El Salvador, San Salvador, El Salvador is compared.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And, you know, it's sparsely populated. And there were not enough priests. So what they did was they, they started out their organization, their organizing strategy was to start training men, campesino men, peasant men.

[Assistant] When you say their strategy, this is the Caritas?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, you know, it's sparsely populated. And there were not enough priests. So what they did was they, they started out their organization, their organizing strategy was to start training men, campesino men, peasant men.

[Assistant] When you say their strategy, this is the Caritas?

[User] This is the Caritas people, to be, essentially they were celebrating the mass. They were celebrating the liturgies in their villages. And so these people, and they, and they, the readings that were selected for these celebrations, La Celebración de la Palabra, were all liberation theology. It was all about, you know, the Hebrews being freed from, the Jews being freed from slavery. And, you know, Jesus, uh, Saint Matthew with I was hungry and you gave me to eat. I was thirsty. I was imprisoned. As long as you do it to one of these, the least my brethren, you do it to me. It was all those scriptures. So that's what every Sunday, that's what people were studying for years.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] In their villages. That was their first step. Then their second step was.

[Assistant] And then this was all part of sort of the fallout from Vatican II, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This is the Caritas people, to be, essentially they were celebrating the mass. They were celebrating the liturgies in their villages. And so these people, and they, and they, the readings that were selected for these celebrations, La Celebración de la Palabra, were all liberation theology. It was all about, you know, the Hebrews being freed from, the Jews being freed from slavery. And, you know, Jesus, uh, Saint Matthew with I was hungry and you gave me to eat. I was thirsty. I was imprisoned. As long as you do it to one of these, the least my brethren, you do it to me. It was all those scriptures. So that's what every Sunday, that's what people were studying for years.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] In their villages. That was their first step. Then their second step was.

[Assistant] And then this was all part of sort of the fallout from Vatican II, right?

[User] Right. And it was the fallout.

[Assistant] The liberation theology.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In their villages. That was their first step. Then their second step was.

[Assistant] And then this was all part of sort of the fallout from Vatican II, right?

[User] Right. And it was the fallout.

[Assistant] The liberation theology.

[User] Right, which started in in Medellin, Colombia. In Medellin, Colombia, in the late sixties, all the bishops of Latin America got together and they looked at the reality of Latin America. And what they said was, what came out of it was, the reality of Latin America is oppression, and the church is part of it. We're responsible for it. And we now take, it's more than this but this was the gist of it, we now take a preferential option for the poor. We have created this oppression. This is not God's will and we have to end this.

[Assistant] So that was a segment of the Catholic Church?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And it was the fallout.

[Assistant] The liberation theology.

[User] Right, which started in in Medellin, Colombia. In Medellin, Colombia, in the late sixties, all the bishops of Latin America got together and they looked at the reality of Latin America. And what they said was, what came out of it was, the reality of Latin America is oppression, and the church is part of it. We're responsible for it. And we now take, it's more than this but this was the gist of it, we now take a preferential option for the poor. We have created this oppression. This is not God's will and we have to end this.

[Assistant] So that was a segment of the Catholic Church?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Not everyone in Latin America was on the same page.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Not everyone in Latin America was on the same page.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But it was a big movement.

[Assistant] And Oscar Romero next door in El Salvador. Well, I'm trying to remember when Oscar Romero was killed. It was.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But it was a big movement.

[Assistant] And Oscar Romero next door in El Salvador. Well, I'm trying to remember when Oscar Romero was killed. It was.

[User] It was later. It was in the eighties.

[Assistant] Oh, was it later?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But it was a big movement.

[Assistant] And Oscar Romero next door in El Salvador. Well, I'm trying to remember when Oscar Romero was killed. It was.

[User] It was later. It was in the eighties.

[Assistant] Oh, was it later?

[User] I think it was in the early eighties.

[Assistant] And then there was something of the Maryknoll nuns.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think it was in the early eighties.

[Assistant] And then there was something of the Maryknoll nuns.

[User] Yeah. Same time in El Salvador.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] And um.

[Assistant] So you were there in sort of the early.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Same time in El Salvador.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] And um.

[Assistant] So you were there in sort of the early.

[User] The beginnings.

[Assistant] Beginnings of the implementation of that idea.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And um.

[Assistant] So you were there in sort of the early.

[User] The beginnings.

[Assistant] Beginnings of the implementation of that idea.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And the changing of what was being said from the pulpit.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And the changing of what was being said from the pulpit.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. So then the next thing they did was they organized radio schools. So because everybody had transistor radios.

[Assistant] Oh yeah.

[User] And using Paulo Freire's, Paulo Freire was their guru, using Paulo Freire's pedagogy, they brought people in who didn't know how to read and trained them and gave them lesson plans. And then these, they taught people to read over the radio with, you know, some with another peasant in the village, because there were no schools.

[Assistant] And we need to talk about that Paulo Freire is the author of Pedagogy of the Oppressed, and he sees literacy as key to the liberation of oppressed poor people.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And using Paulo Freire's, Paulo Freire was their guru, using Paulo Freire's pedagogy, they brought people in who didn't know how to read and trained them and gave them lesson plans. And then these, they taught people to read over the radio with, you know, some with another peasant in the village, because there were no schools.

[Assistant] And we need to talk about that Paulo Freire is the author of Pedagogy of the Oppressed, and he sees literacy as key to the liberation of oppressed poor people.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] So, yeah.

[User] And the way he teaches them to read is by taking, the subject matter is their reality and it's dialectical, so it's all like Socratic dialogue. So that was the second part of it. And then there, then they had, they had requested Peace Corps volunteers because they wanted, their other thing was housewives clubs and promotores de salud.

[Assistant] Okay, translate promotores.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] So, yeah.

[User] And the way he teaches them to read is by taking, the subject matter is their reality and it's dialectical, so it's all like Socratic dialogue. So that was the second part of it. And then there, then they had, they had requested Peace Corps volunteers because they wanted, their other thing was housewives clubs and promotores de salud.

[Assistant] Okay, translate promotores.

[User] So that was like the barefoot doctor concept.

[Assistant] Health promoters, literally. But yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So that was like the barefoot doctor concept.

[Assistant] Health promoters, literally. But yeah.

[User] So they, they, so they thought, well, this is what has to happen with women, that this society. We're not going to have a revolution unless women are part of it. I mean, women were the most oppressed segment of the population.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And they saw that. And so they were organizing these housewives clubs. And then they had money from Germany and they wanted Peace Corps volunteers that were going to organize this.

[Assistant] Money from Germany?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So they, they, so they thought, well, this is what has to happen with women, that this society. We're not going to have a revolution unless women are part of it. I mean, women were the most oppressed segment of the population.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And they saw that. And so they were organizing these housewives clubs. And then they had money from Germany and they wanted Peace Corps volunteers that were going to organize this.

[Assistant] Money from Germany?

[User] From the Christian Democrats, because the Christian Democrats are a political party in Germany.

[Assistant] Oh, and also in Honduras at that time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they saw that. And so they were organizing these housewives clubs. And then they had money from Germany and they wanted Peace Corps volunteers that were going to organize this.

[Assistant] Money from Germany?

[User] From the Christian Democrats, because the Christian Democrats are a political party in Germany.

[Assistant] Oh, and also in Honduras at that time.

[User] And they were trying to form this party. They were, they were it. There weren't very many of them. So. So the idea was that. I mean, the whole thing. I just to this day I think it was so smart. So they had these villages. They had about 30 or 40 villages where I was in Olancho.

[Assistant] You were where?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] From the Christian Democrats, because the Christian Democrats are a political party in Germany.

[Assistant] Oh, and also in Honduras at that time.

[User] And they were trying to form this party. They were, they were it. There weren't very many of them. So. So the idea was that. I mean, the whole thing. I just to this day I think it was so smart. So they had these villages. They had about 30 or 40 villages where I was in Olancho.

[Assistant] You were where?

[User] I was in Olancho.

[Assistant] So I'm looking at the map again. So where is Olancho?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they were trying to form this party. They were, they were it. There weren't very many of them. So. So the idea was that. I mean, the whole thing. I just to this day I think it was so smart. So they had these villages. They had about 30 or 40 villages where I was in Olancho.

[Assistant] You were where?

[User] I was in Olancho.

[Assistant] So I'm looking at the map again. So where is Olancho?

[User] So I lived. I saw it on here. I lived here in Juticalpa.

[Assistant] Okay. Juticalpa. And where is Olancho from that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was in Olancho.

[Assistant] So I'm looking at the map again. So where is Olancho?

[User] So I lived. I saw it on here. I lived here in Juticalpa.

[Assistant] Okay. Juticalpa. And where is Olancho from that?

[User] So this is, all of this is Olancho. But you can see it.

[Assistant] Oh, I see it. There's a little town called Olanchito up here, but there's.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I lived. I saw it on here. I lived here in Juticalpa.

[Assistant] Okay. Juticalpa. And where is Olancho from that?

[User] So this is, all of this is Olancho. But you can see it.

[Assistant] Oh, I see it. There's a little town called Olanchito up here, but there's.

[User] But that's not part of it.

[Assistant] There's a whole province.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. It was a province.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] The province. And it was kind of considered the wild west of Honduras.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] I mean, it was mostly cattle ranches and there is some hardwood forests. But look at how far it is from Tegucigalpa and San Pedro Sula, which are the only cities.

[Assistant] It's hard to tell on the map how far. Let's talk in terms of time. If you wanted to get from your town of Juticalpa to the capital, Tegucigalpa, how long would it take you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The province. And it was kind of considered the wild west of Honduras.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] I mean, it was mostly cattle ranches and there is some hardwood forests. But look at how far it is from Tegucigalpa and San Pedro Sula, which are the only cities.

[Assistant] It's hard to tell on the map how far. Let's talk in terms of time. If you wanted to get from your town of Juticalpa to the capital, Tegucigalpa, how long would it take you?

[User] There is 8 hours of a bus ride on a dirt road.

[Assistant] Okay, 8 hours on a bus. And to get from Juticalpa to San Pedro Sula, would you have to go down to Teguc and then up?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, it was mostly cattle ranches and there is some hardwood forests. But look at how far it is from Tegucigalpa and San Pedro Sula, which are the only cities.

[Assistant] It's hard to tell on the map how far. Let's talk in terms of time. If you wanted to get from your town of Juticalpa to the capital, Tegucigalpa, how long would it take you?

[User] There is 8 hours of a bus ride on a dirt road.

[Assistant] Okay, 8 hours on a bus. And to get from Juticalpa to San Pedro Sula, would you have to go down to Teguc and then up?

[User] Yeah. So that was two days.

[Assistant] A couple of days. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There is 8 hours of a bus ride on a dirt road.

[Assistant] Okay, 8 hours on a bus. And to get from Juticalpa to San Pedro Sula, would you have to go down to Teguc and then up?

[User] Yeah. So that was two days.

[Assistant] A couple of days. Yeah.

[User] So no one ever came out here.

[Assistant] Oh, so you're pretty isolated. And were you by yourself?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. So that was two days.

[Assistant] A couple of days. Yeah.

[User] So no one ever came out here.

[Assistant] Oh, so you're pretty isolated. And were you by yourself?

[User] Well, I lived with a British nurse and an Irish nurse who worked at the hospital in Juticalpa.

[Assistant] You're back with the Irish again.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So no one ever came out here.

[Assistant] Oh, so you're pretty isolated. And were you by yourself?

[User] Well, I lived with a British nurse and an Irish nurse who worked at the hospital in Juticalpa.

[Assistant] You're back with the Irish again.

[User] I know, I could not escape them. And then.

[Assistant] So let's talk, let's talk about. Let's slow down and talk about where you lived and how you lived in Juticalpa. You're an American living with a British woman and an Irish woman, and they're both nurses?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I lived with a British nurse and an Irish nurse who worked at the hospital in Juticalpa.

[Assistant] You're back with the Irish again.

[User] I know, I could not escape them. And then.

[Assistant] So let's talk, let's talk about. Let's slow down and talk about where you lived and how you lived in Juticalpa. You're an American living with a British woman and an Irish woman, and they're both nurses?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] And what kind of house were you living in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I know, I could not escape them. And then.

[Assistant] So let's talk, let's talk about. Let's slow down and talk about where you lived and how you lived in Juticalpa. You're an American living with a British woman and an Irish woman, and they're both nurses?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] And what kind of house were you living in?

[User] The house was a nice house. It had, you know, it was in the town. This, Juticalpa, is the only town in all of the. They were just little aldeas, little villages, all connected by dirt roads. I mean, most of them didn't even have busses that went to their villages. The house was a nice house, you know, cement house with tile floors. There was a living room and then a patio with three bedrooms around the patio and a dining area on the outside with no wall, a table, covered table. The kitchen had a two burner, you know, little kerosene burners.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Refrigerator?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] And what kind of house were you living in?

[User] The house was a nice house. It had, you know, it was in the town. This, Juticalpa, is the only town in all of the. They were just little aldeas, little villages, all connected by dirt roads. I mean, most of them didn't even have busses that went to their villages. The house was a nice house, you know, cement house with tile floors. There was a living room and then a patio with three bedrooms around the patio and a dining area on the outside with no wall, a table, covered table. The kitchen had a two burner, you know, little kerosene burners.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Refrigerator?

[User] We had a refrigerator.

[Assistant] Did you have?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The house was a nice house. It had, you know, it was in the town. This, Juticalpa, is the only town in all of the. They were just little aldeas, little villages, all connected by dirt roads. I mean, most of them didn't even have busses that went to their villages. The house was a nice house, you know, cement house with tile floors. There was a living room and then a patio with three bedrooms around the patio and a dining area on the outside with no wall, a table, covered table. The kitchen had a two burner, you know, little kerosene burners.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Refrigerator?

[User] We had a refrigerator.

[Assistant] Did you have?

[User] We had water on and off.

[Assistant] Aha. So you had a flush toilet?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had a refrigerator.

[Assistant] Did you have?

[User] We had water on and off.

[Assistant] Aha. So you had a flush toilet?

[User] Sometimes, if there was water and we had a pila, a big tub, where you could, you know, like wash your clothes.

[Assistant] Yeah. And so did you do your own washing of the clothes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had water on and off.

[Assistant] Aha. So you had a flush toilet?

[User] Sometimes, if there was water and we had a pila, a big tub, where you could, you know, like wash your clothes.

[Assistant] Yeah. And so did you do your own washing of the clothes?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You did. And you did your own cooking?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sometimes, if there was water and we had a pila, a big tub, where you could, you know, like wash your clothes.

[Assistant] Yeah. And so did you do your own washing of the clothes?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You did. And you did your own cooking?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And so that meant you had to go to the market and shop yourselves. You didn't hire anyone who did all those domestic things for you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You did. And you did your own cooking?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And so that meant you had to go to the market and shop yourselves. You didn't hire anyone who did all those domestic things for you.

[User] At one point we had the sister of one of the promotores de salud that wanted to come in and go to do a class on to become a beautician. She lived with us for free in exchange for like doing the laundry and some of the cleaning.

[Assistant] Ah, yeah, okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And so that meant you had to go to the market and shop yourselves. You didn't hire anyone who did all those domestic things for you.

[User] At one point we had the sister of one of the promotores de salud that wanted to come in and go to do a class on to become a beautician. She lived with us for free in exchange for like doing the laundry and some of the cleaning.

[Assistant] Ah, yeah, okay.

[User] So that helped. But we did our own cooking.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. And your own shopping in the market?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] At one point we had the sister of one of the promotores de salud that wanted to come in and go to do a class on to become a beautician. She lived with us for free in exchange for like doing the laundry and some of the cleaning.

[Assistant] Ah, yeah, okay.

[User] So that helped. But we did our own cooking.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. And your own shopping in the market?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Yeah. What you're talking about is so heady and so important. And I feel, I feel like I'm pulling you back now to talk about nitty gritty things. But how did you buy food and what did you eat?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So that helped. But we did our own cooking.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. And your own shopping in the market?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Yeah. What you're talking about is so heady and so important. And I feel, I feel like I'm pulling you back now to talk about nitty gritty things. But how did you buy food and what did you eat?

[User] There was a little tiny store right across the street where you could buy like bread and eggs. And sometimes people would walk up the street selling stuff, you know, fruit or eggs or. In the market you could buy. What we ate was beans, beans and rice.

[Assistant] Would you buy dry beans or can?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Yeah. What you're talking about is so heady and so important. And I feel, I feel like I'm pulling you back now to talk about nitty gritty things. But how did you buy food and what did you eat?

[User] There was a little tiny store right across the street where you could buy like bread and eggs. And sometimes people would walk up the street selling stuff, you know, fruit or eggs or. In the market you could buy. What we ate was beans, beans and rice.

[Assistant] Would you buy dry beans or can?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Not canned like Puerto Rico.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was a little tiny store right across the street where you could buy like bread and eggs. And sometimes people would walk up the street selling stuff, you know, fruit or eggs or. In the market you could buy. What we ate was beans, beans and rice.

[Assistant] Would you buy dry beans or can?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Not canned like Puerto Rico.

[User] Oh, no.

[Assistant] But you'd buy the dried beans and so forth and then boil them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Not canned like Puerto Rico.

[User] Oh, no.

[Assistant] But you'd buy the dried beans and so forth and then boil them.

[User] And tortillas.

[Assistant] What kind of tortillas, were they handmade?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, no.

[Assistant] But you'd buy the dried beans and so forth and then boil them.

[User] And tortillas.

[Assistant] What kind of tortillas, were they handmade?

[User] Uh, they must have been.

[Assistant] I'm thinking of the typical Mexican tortillas. Flat. Very like rolled thin like paper. But in Guatemala, sometimes they have these quarter inch thick things that people make by hand.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And tortillas.

[Assistant] What kind of tortillas, were they handmade?

[User] Uh, they must have been.

[Assistant] I'm thinking of the typical Mexican tortillas. Flat. Very like rolled thin like paper. But in Guatemala, sometimes they have these quarter inch thick things that people make by hand.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. They were more like Guatemalan. More like Guatemalan.

[Assistant] And El Salvadorans too are thicker. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. They were more like Guatemalan. More like Guatemalan.

[Assistant] And El Salvadorans too are thicker. Yeah.

[User] We had yucca, cabbage, eggs. We could get bacon. We could get pork. We could get pork. Chicken was hard to come by.

[Assistant] No kidding.

[User] We didn't. It was hard to get chickens, but we had a lot of pork. Mostly pork for meat.

[Assistant] And you'd buy it in the market.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had yucca, cabbage, eggs. We could get bacon. We could get pork. We could get pork. Chicken was hard to come by.

[Assistant] No kidding.

[User] We didn't. It was hard to get chickens, but we had a lot of pork. Mostly pork for meat.

[Assistant] And you'd buy it in the market.

[User] In the market fresh, yeah. Eggs. We had eggs. And there was, you could get, like there was a panadería. You could get like sweet pan dulce. Well, actually the panadería was in the next town in Catacamas, but they would bring and sometimes you could get pan dulce.

[Assistant] So I have to interrupt here. Panadería is a bakery, bread being pan.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We didn't. It was hard to get chickens, but we had a lot of pork. Mostly pork for meat.

[Assistant] And you'd buy it in the market.

[User] In the market fresh, yeah. Eggs. We had eggs. And there was, you could get, like there was a panadería. You could get like sweet pan dulce. Well, actually the panadería was in the next town in Catacamas, but they would bring and sometimes you could get pan dulce.

[Assistant] So I have to interrupt here. Panadería is a bakery, bread being pan.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So pan dulce is a sweet bread?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oranges.

[Assistant] Any greens?

[User] Cabbage.

[Assistant] Huh.

[User] I don't remember. Oh, and cabbage and yucca and then those squash. That chayote squash. I think that we had cucumbers. I'm remembering cucumbers. But I might have that confused with Mexico. It wasn't, there wasn't very much variety, but it was.

[Assistant] It was nourishing.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Cabbage.

[Assistant] Huh.

[User] I don't remember. Oh, and cabbage and yucca and then those squash. That chayote squash. I think that we had cucumbers. I'm remembering cucumbers. But I might have that confused with Mexico. It wasn't, there wasn't very much variety, but it was.

[Assistant] It was nourishing.

[User] Yeah, it wasn't, you know.

[Assistant] You had coffee?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it wasn't, you know.

[Assistant] You had coffee?

[User] We had coffee.

[Assistant] Beer?

[User] Yes. The Honduran beer was stronger than American beer. And if you went into a bar, not in Juticalpa. I never went into a bar, but in Tegucigalpa, if I would go in with other volunteers, you know, they would serve you little. But if you order a beer, you would get like a little thing of peanuts. Or a little, they'd give you little boquitos, bocaritos with your beer.

[Assistant] Um, a bocarito would be?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Like a little appetizer. Peanuts, they would give you, or in the best place was after I, at the end of my time they sent me to Costa Rica to train a new group coming in and in Guanacaste and there was a bar. It was just this little crummy bar across the street from the training center where they, if you ordered a beer, you would get like little plates and pieces of fried, fresh fried fish and.

[Assistant] Fabulous.

[User] That were, you didn't pay for.

[Assistant] Like tapas.

[User] Yeah, it is automatic. It comes with the beer. Yeah.

[Assistant] Very nice. So. So you had, it sounds like your living situation was pretty well taken care of. It was not a crisis of keeping yourself alive.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That were, you didn't pay for.

[Assistant] Like tapas.

[User] Yeah, it is automatic. It comes with the beer. Yeah.

[Assistant] Very nice. So. So you had, it sounds like your living situation was pretty well taken care of. It was not a crisis of keeping yourself alive.

[User] No.

[Assistant] You had your own room to sleep in.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I didn't share a room.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] There was also a garage to this house, which that was where this girl who lived with us and then did our wash in exchange for board and room.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] She slept in there and we fixed up a room for her in the garage.

[Assistant] Yeah. So, um. So there you are. You're pretty well taken care of. You have electricity sometimes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was also a garage to this house, which that was where this girl who lived with us and then did our wash in exchange for board and room.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] She slept in there and we fixed up a room for her in the garage.

[Assistant] Yeah. So, um. So there you are. You're pretty well taken care of. You have electricity sometimes?

[User] No, the electricity was pretty good. It was the water.

[Assistant] The water was on and off.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, the electricity was pretty good. It was the water.

[Assistant] The water was on and off.

[User] Yeah. And up the street these, if you, the street went up a hill and at the top of the hill was the hospital where these two nurses that were part of the British Peace Corps equivalent.

[Assistant] Oh, VSO.

[User] Yeah, one was British and one was Irish. And the British girl, she left. I keep saying girl because we were so young.

[Assistant] You were girls.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And up the street these, if you, the street went up a hill and at the top of the hill was the hospital where these two nurses that were part of the British Peace Corps equivalent.

[Assistant] Oh, VSO.

[User] Yeah, one was British and one was Irish. And the British girl, she left. I keep saying girl because we were so young.

[Assistant] You were girls.

[User] And we called ourselves girls. I mean, it does feel terrible to say that.

[Assistant] No, but not then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we called ourselves girls. I mean, it does feel terrible to say that.

[Assistant] No, but not then.

[User] She was actually only there for a year and her term was up, but the Irish one was there and then another one came and took the place of the British one who had left. But she worked with me with the promotora project, and working in that hospital would have just been hell. So depressing, you know? I mean, people, you just did not want to go to that hospital.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I mean, the hospital had flush toilets, but the water never reached it. So you can imagine. And then they took the sheets down from the hospital and washed their sheets in the river, which was the source of water for the town. It was just, it was just awful. That was very, my job was very exciting.

[Assistant] Because you were not a nurse. You were doing nutrition.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She was actually only there for a year and her term was up, but the Irish one was there and then another one came and took the place of the British one who had left. But she worked with me with the promotora project, and working in that hospital would have just been hell. So depressing, you know? I mean, people, you just did not want to go to that hospital.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I mean, the hospital had flush toilets, but the water never reached it. So you can imagine. And then they took the sheets down from the hospital and washed their sheets in the river, which was the source of water for the town. It was just, it was just awful. That was very, my job was very exciting.

[Assistant] Because you were not a nurse. You were doing nutrition.

[User] I was doing community organizing. That's what I was doing.

[Assistant] So talk about your work.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, the hospital had flush toilets, but the water never reached it. So you can imagine. And then they took the sheets down from the hospital and washed their sheets in the river, which was the source of water for the town. It was just, it was just awful. That was very, my job was very exciting.

[Assistant] Because you were not a nurse. You were doing nutrition.

[User] I was doing community organizing. That's what I was doing.

[Assistant] So talk about your work.

[User] And it was very, it was very intellectually stimulating. And I mean, you were working with complete. So, getting back to how these people had organized this, they had these like 30 or so villages where they had celebración. They had the Celebrations of the Word and they had the radio schools and they had housewives clubs formed. And then the next step was to create these promotores de salud. And so they were to become. There were two women from we did 15 villages at a time, two women from each village, so 30 women at a time.

[Assistant] And they would come in from these villages?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was doing community organizing. That's what I was doing.

[Assistant] So talk about your work.

[User] And it was very, it was very intellectually stimulating. And I mean, you were working with complete. So, getting back to how these people had organized this, they had these like 30 or so villages where they had celebración. They had the Celebrations of the Word and they had the radio schools and they had housewives clubs formed. And then the next step was to create these promotores de salud. And so they were to become. There were two women from we did 15 villages at a time, two women from each village, so 30 women at a time.

[Assistant] And they would come in from these villages?

[User] And they would come into this training center in Juticalpa, which was just catty corner from where our house was, which was run by Caritas.

[Assistant] Where did they sleep?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it was very, it was very intellectually stimulating. And I mean, you were working with complete. So, getting back to how these people had organized this, they had these like 30 or so villages where they had celebración. They had the Celebrations of the Word and they had the radio schools and they had housewives clubs formed. And then the next step was to create these promotores de salud. And so they were to become. There were two women from we did 15 villages at a time, two women from each village, so 30 women at a time.

[Assistant] And they would come in from these villages?

[User] And they would come into this training center in Juticalpa, which was just catty corner from where our house was, which was run by Caritas.

[Assistant] Where did they sleep?

[User] Oh, my God. It was so, talk about unsanitary. Because once again, the toilets, you know, half the time there was no water.

[Assistant] Water to flush.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, my God. It was so, talk about unsanitary. Because once again, the toilets, you know, half the time there was no water.

[Assistant] Water to flush.

[User] It was like a dormitory.

[Assistant] Yeah, okay.

[User] This was like, I mean, think of like an extremely basic retreat center. It was, there was like, there were like big dormitories and bathrooms and showers. And they would come in with their babies because if they were nursing or little kids.

[Assistant] Yeah. And they'd come in for how long?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was like a dormitory.

[Assistant] Yeah, okay.

[User] This was like, I mean, think of like an extremely basic retreat center. It was, there was like, there were like big dormitories and bathrooms and showers. And they would come in with their babies because if they were nursing or little kids.

[Assistant] Yeah. And they'd come in for how long?

[User] 30 days.

[Assistant] So a month.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This was like, I mean, think of like an extremely basic retreat center. It was, there was like, there were like big dormitories and bathrooms and showers. And they would come in with their babies because if they were nursing or little kids.

[Assistant] Yeah. And they'd come in for how long?

[User] 30 days.

[Assistant] So a month.

[User] And so the way it worked was.

[Assistant] And they came in to get trained to do what?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so the way it worked was.

[Assistant] And they came in to get trained to do what?

[User] So I trained them to be on the nutrition, the preventive health, and like community organizing and teaching techniques, because they were supposed to try to get their communities to build latrines, boil their water, plant gardens. They were, you know, teaching people about balanced diets. And then there was a nurse and she taught them how to give injections.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] How to sterilize, uh, how to deliver. They had, they had midwives in these villages, but they didn't know much about sanitation.

[Assistant] Yeah. So these people were going to go back and be?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I trained them to be on the nutrition, the preventive health, and like community organizing and teaching techniques, because they were supposed to try to get their communities to build latrines, boil their water, plant gardens. They were, you know, teaching people about balanced diets. And then there was a nurse and she taught them how to give injections.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] How to sterilize, uh, how to deliver. They had, they had midwives in these villages, but they didn't know much about sanitation.

[Assistant] Yeah. So these people were going to go back and be?

[User] The health providers.

[Assistant] The health providers for that community.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] How to sterilize, uh, how to deliver. They had, they had midwives in these villages, but they didn't know much about sanitation.

[Assistant] Yeah. So these people were going to go back and be?

[User] The health providers.

[Assistant] The health providers for that community.

[User] And they went back at they end of their course.

[Assistant] And they may not have gone to high school themselves.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they went back at they end of their course.

[Assistant] And they may not have gone to high school themselves.

[User] Right, oh no, nobody had gone to high school because the only, the only schools only went to the third grade.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] So, um, they got a little medicine kit and then they were supposed. So it had things like aspirin, bandages, you know, antibiotic cream. It had some, they could give injections and then they were supposed to sell, like they would sell the Band-Aids and aspirin for a penny.

[Assistant] And the giving injections gives me pause there, that people without an education would know which drug to administer.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, oh no, nobody had gone to high school because the only, the only schools only went to the third grade.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] So, um, they got a little medicine kit and then they were supposed. So it had things like aspirin, bandages, you know, antibiotic cream. It had some, they could give injections and then they were supposed to sell, like they would sell the Band-Aids and aspirin for a penny.

[Assistant] And the giving injections gives me pause there, that people without an education would know which drug to administer.

[User] Oh, well, they didn't. They could only administer what they had. It was more like, this is where you. So somebody could go come into Juticalpa, for example, and get something in the pharmacy and bring it back. And they would know how to inject it, but they didn't have things that they could inject.

[Assistant] So they didn't, they weren't prescribing medicine.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So, um, they got a little medicine kit and then they were supposed. So it had things like aspirin, bandages, you know, antibiotic cream. It had some, they could give injections and then they were supposed to sell, like they would sell the Band-Aids and aspirin for a penny.

[Assistant] And the giving injections gives me pause there, that people without an education would know which drug to administer.

[User] Oh, well, they didn't. They could only administer what they had. It was more like, this is where you. So somebody could go come into Juticalpa, for example, and get something in the pharmacy and bring it back. And they would know how to inject it, but they didn't have things that they could inject.

[Assistant] So they didn't, they weren't prescribing medicine.

[User] Oh, no, no, no.

[Assistant] They knew the mechanics of giving an injection.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, well, they didn't. They could only administer what they had. It was more like, this is where you. So somebody could go come into Juticalpa, for example, and get something in the pharmacy and bring it back. And they would know how to inject it, but they didn't have things that they could inject.

[Assistant] So they didn't, they weren't prescribing medicine.

[User] Oh, no, no, no.

[Assistant] They knew the mechanics of giving an injection.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] Right. And when you go to the pharmacy, you don't get a pill, you get a solution to inject.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] Right. And when you go to the pharmacy, you don't get a pill, you get a solution to inject.

[User] Because they, that's the only thing that works in their mind. Everybody wants an injection.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Because that's more powerful than a pill.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, okay. So let's move on.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because they, that's the only thing that works in their mind. Everybody wants an injection.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Because that's more powerful than a pill.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, okay. So let's move on.

[User] So the, um, so they came in. So the way it worked was, we would go out to this village. Besides the men that were in charge of each of these regions, there was a team of social promoters, promotores sociales, of like I think there were four in Juticalpa who, they were the ones that had organized, done all the organizing. And they, um. We would go, one of them and I would go out to a village and we would have a meeting and we would explain this is what the program is going to be. And then the people would nominate like five or six candidates. And then we would interview them and we would choose two.

[Assistant] Ah. And those are the people who came back into Juticalpa for the month. You had had a role in selecting them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because that's more powerful than a pill.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, okay. So let's move on.

[User] So the, um, so they came in. So the way it worked was, we would go out to this village. Besides the men that were in charge of each of these regions, there was a team of social promoters, promotores sociales, of like I think there were four in Juticalpa who, they were the ones that had organized, done all the organizing. And they, um. We would go, one of them and I would go out to a village and we would have a meeting and we would explain this is what the program is going to be. And then the people would nominate like five or six candidates. And then we would interview them and we would choose two.

[Assistant] Ah. And those are the people who came back into Juticalpa for the month. You had had a role in selecting them.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] How did you, how did you work out your criteria? How did you figure out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we had to have people that could at least read.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And we didn't want young teenage girls. And they were the ones that could read. So if we did have a teenage girl, it had to be somebody who was pretty special and she had to be with somebody that was older. They had to be somebody that the community really respected. And it had to be somebody that, you know, that had, that believed in the cause. And somebody that was, had, you know, that we, had some leadership, because the main thing we really wanted them to do was boil their water.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] You know, if they just would boil their water, so much of it.

[Assistant] But to understand the whole idea of microbes and so forth is, uh, you almost have to present this as a kind of magic. You boil the water, you'll be healthy.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, if they just would boil their water, so much of it.

[Assistant] But to understand the whole idea of microbes and so forth is, uh, you almost have to present this as a kind of magic. You boil the water, you'll be healthy.

[User] So. So then they came in for this month, but for one week before we started any of the technical stuff, we did this whole Paulo Freire dialogue about what is the reality of Honduras.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] So that they saw but they, they saw their role then. By the time they, they saw boiling your water as part of the revolution.

[Assistant] Okay. All right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So. So then they came in for this month, but for one week before we started any of the technical stuff, we did this whole Paulo Freire dialogue about what is the reality of Honduras.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] So that they saw but they, they saw their role then. By the time they, they saw boiling your water as part of the revolution.

[Assistant] Okay. All right.

[User] And building latrines. And also, as I mean, the other big thing was empowering women. We had one whole, a couple of days on the role of women in Honduras. And why is it that the saying is el hombre manda, the man commands. Why is that, you know? And we would go through this whole dialogue with these series of questions, all programmed out, the dialog to get to, you know, well, is that, you know, is there any reason for that? What is the reason for that? And is that right? And, you know, you never.

[Assistant] People thinking thoughts that they never dared to think before.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So that they saw but they, they saw their role then. By the time they, they saw boiling your water as part of the revolution.

[Assistant] Okay. All right.

[User] And building latrines. And also, as I mean, the other big thing was empowering women. We had one whole, a couple of days on the role of women in Honduras. And why is it that the saying is el hombre manda, the man commands. Why is that, you know? And we would go through this whole dialogue with these series of questions, all programmed out, the dialog to get to, you know, well, is that, you know, is there any reason for that? What is the reason for that? And is that right? And, you know, you never.

[Assistant] People thinking thoughts that they never dared to think before.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] Yeah. So what is, to name the problem and then to figure out, you know, who profits from things being as they are.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And building latrines. And also, as I mean, the other big thing was empowering women. We had one whole, a couple of days on the role of women in Honduras. And why is it that the saying is el hombre manda, the man commands. Why is that, you know? And we would go through this whole dialogue with these series of questions, all programmed out, the dialog to get to, you know, well, is that, you know, is there any reason for that? What is the reason for that? And is that right? And, you know, you never.

[Assistant] People thinking thoughts that they never dared to think before.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] Yeah. So what is, to name the problem and then to figure out, you know, who profits from things being as they are.

[User] Yeah. And the problem always in Honduras, the problem always came down to land. So then the other part of this was these land invasions.

[Assistant] What do you mean when you say land invasion?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So these, so they, they. So they had the radio, they had the Celebrations of the Word, the radio schools, the clubs, the housewives clubs, the health promoters. And they had the ligas campesinas, which were campesino unions. And that group, what they did was they researched the. All of these people, it was a system of sharecropping.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] So in all these villages, there is a landowner who maybe owned, you know, 1,500 acres of land and everybody else worked. It was sharecropping. It was a system of slavery. It was really a system of slavery. Well, no, not even sharecropping. It was feudal. It was feudalism. So they would, somebody would go in to the capital and get the title to the land. And in many cases, the saying in Honduras was the fence posts walk at night, because in many cases these people didn't own the land that they said they owned at all.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] That their family, it had been in their family for generations. And maybe in the beginning they owned 50 acres and now they owned 150. And some of that land was in the name of the Virgin of Sujatha, or it was national land. And so then these campesino leagues would go and squat on a piece of the land. And they would.

[Assistant] That they knew was not the property of so-and-so.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So in all these villages, there is a landowner who maybe owned, you know, 1,500 acres of land and everybody else worked. It was sharecropping. It was a system of slavery. It was really a system of slavery. Well, no, not even sharecropping. It was feudal. It was feudalism. So they would, somebody would go in to the capital and get the title to the land. And in many cases, the saying in Honduras was the fence posts walk at night, because in many cases these people didn't own the land that they said they owned at all.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] That their family, it had been in their family for generations. And maybe in the beginning they owned 50 acres and now they owned 150. And some of that land was in the name of the Virgin of Sujatha, or it was national land. And so then these campesino leagues would go and squat on a piece of the land. And they would.

[Assistant] That they knew was not the property of so-and-so.

[User] Right. And they would say, this land is ours because we've earned it through sweat equity.

[Assistant] Ah. And did they succeed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And they would say, this land is ours because we've earned it through sweat equity.

[Assistant] Ah. And did they succeed?

[User] Well, the. So, the first. I got there like in July.

[Assistant] Of '70?

[User]
Of '71. And we probably had our first training in, maybe we had done one course, and that might have been in October. So then maybe in November, um, I think it was around November, they were doing a national contas, it was doing a national training of promotores. They were going to train women to be these social promoters, not just men, and they were doing it nationally. So they chose a, I don't know, like five women from each of their areas and brought them into Tegucigalpa. And Linda Freed and I, we were working on this in Tegucigalpa when one of these land invasions occurred in this village called La Talanquera, which was about seven kilometers away from where the training. The training center was called the Centro Santa Clara in Juticalpa.

So there were 25 houses in this village, and everybody in the village went and squatted on seven hectares. That's all they wanted was seven hectares.

[Assistant] How much is that in acres?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the. So, the first. I got there like in July.

[Assistant] Of '70?

[User]
Of '71. And we probably had our first training in, maybe we had done one course, and that might have been in October. So then maybe in November, um, I think it was around November, they were doing a national contas, it was doing a national training of promotores. They were going to train women to be these social promoters, not just men, and they were doing it nationally. So they chose a, I don't know, like five women from each of their areas and brought them into Tegucigalpa. And Linda Freed and I, we were working on this in Tegucigalpa when one of these land invasions occurred in this village called La Talanquera, which was about seven kilometers away from where the training. The training center was called the Centro Santa Clara in Juticalpa.

So there were 25 houses in this village, and everybody in the village went and squatted on seven hectares. That's all they wanted was seven hectares.

[Assistant] How much is that in acres?

[User] It's a hectare. It's not as big as an acre.

[Assistant] Oh, so it's less than seven acres.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Of '71. And we probably had our first training in, maybe we had done one course, and that might have been in October. So then maybe in November, um, I think it was around November, they were doing a national contas, it was doing a national training of promotores. They were going to train women to be these social promoters, not just men, and they were doing it nationally. So they chose a, I don't know, like five women from each of their areas and brought them into Tegucigalpa. And Linda Freed and I, we were working on this in Tegucigalpa when one of these land invasions occurred in this village called La Talanquera, which was about seven kilometers away from where the training. The training center was called the Centro Santa Clara in Juticalpa.

So there were 25 houses in this village, and everybody in the village went and squatted on seven hectares. That's all they wanted was seven hectares.

[Assistant] How much is that in acres?

[User] It's a hectare. It's not as big as an acre.

[Assistant] Oh, so it's less than seven acres.

[User] Less than seven acres.

[Assistant] That's a pretty small piece of land.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's a hectare. It's not as big as an acre.

[Assistant] Oh, so it's less than seven acres.

[User] Less than seven acres.

[Assistant] That's a pretty small piece of land.

[User] So the first day they were there, the landowner came and told them to get off and they didn't leave. And the second day, he came back with the military and told them to go and they didn't go. And the third day, the military came back and they told the women and children to start running. And they ran into the seven, they ran into the center of Santa Clara. And they just, and then they tied the. They tied the hands of the men behind their back and told them to start running. And they just started shooting. And they killed, I think they killed about five people. And then the guys who were the leaders of it went into hiding. And I wasn't there because I was in Tegucigalpa.

[Assistant] Oh. And you had been in the country, though, for a while?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So the first day they were there, the landowner came and told them to get off and they didn't leave. And the second day, he came back with the military and told them to go and they didn't go. And the third day, the military came back and they told the women and children to start running. And they ran into the seven, they ran into the center of Santa Clara. And they just, and then they tied the. They tied the hands of the men behind their back and told them to start running. And they just started shooting. And they killed, I think they killed about five people. And then the guys who were the leaders of it went into hiding. And I wasn't there because I was in Tegucigalpa.

[Assistant] Oh. And you had been in the country, though, for a while?

[User] I had been there since July. And I knew all these people because this was one of the villages where we had done the training.

[Assistant] Oh, gee.

[User] And so they, the Peace. There was a Peace Corps volunteer in a town who wasn't at all connected with us. That in the town, if you went on the highway, it was this little town before you got to Juticalpa. He had a, he had a jeep. And there was another Peace Corps volunteer who worked in the town, a guy, who didn't work with Caritas either. But somehow or other they got the jeep and they went out and picked up the bodies and brought them into the center of Santa Clara. And then there was, you know, this big, all this stuff in the paper about this is a communist plot. This is, everything was, everybody was a communist.

[Assistant] So the press was on the side of the landowners?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had been there since July. And I knew all these people because this was one of the villages where we had done the training.

[Assistant] Oh, gee.

[User] And so they, the Peace. There was a Peace Corps volunteer in a town who wasn't at all connected with us. That in the town, if you went on the highway, it was this little town before you got to Juticalpa. He had a, he had a jeep. And there was another Peace Corps volunteer who worked in the town, a guy, who didn't work with Caritas either. But somehow or other they got the jeep and they went out and picked up the bodies and brought them into the center of Santa Clara. And then there was, you know, this big, all this stuff in the paper about this is a communist plot. This is, everything was, everybody was a communist.

[Assistant] So the press was on the side of the landowners?

[User] Oh, absolutely.

[Assistant] It's all in Honduras?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so they, the Peace. There was a Peace Corps volunteer in a town who wasn't at all connected with us. That in the town, if you went on the highway, it was this little town before you got to Juticalpa. He had a, he had a jeep. And there was another Peace Corps volunteer who worked in the town, a guy, who didn't work with Caritas either. But somehow or other they got the jeep and they went out and picked up the bodies and brought them into the center of Santa Clara. And then there was, you know, this big, all this stuff in the paper about this is a communist plot. This is, everything was, everybody was a communist.

[Assistant] So the press was on the side of the landowners?

[User] Oh, absolutely.

[Assistant] It's all in Honduras?

[User] There is no separation. The military, the press, the politicians, the government, it's all the same.

[Assistant] And the landowners.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There is no separation. The military, the press, the politicians, the government, it's all the same.

[Assistant] And the landowners.

[User] And the landowners, exactly, they're all the same. So it went on and on, all this. And then there was a march in solidarity from Santa Clara out to La Talanquera, people with signs, which was where the massacre had happened. Um, then. Then what happened was other aldeas, other villages where there were all these Caritas organizations went and camped on the property with them. So there were hundreds of people there and they had tractors.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And finally, they gave it to them. They gave them the land.

[Assistant] That was quite a victory.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the landowners, exactly, they're all the same. So it went on and on, all this. And then there was a march in solidarity from Santa Clara out to La Talanquera, people with signs, which was where the massacre had happened. Um, then. Then what happened was other aldeas, other villages where there were all these Caritas organizations went and camped on the property with them. So there were hundreds of people there and they had tractors.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And finally, they gave it to them. They gave them the land.

[Assistant] That was quite a victory.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] But at the price of five lives.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] At the price of five lives. And it just went on, and it didn't. When I left in, well, it was. Let's see. In seventy. I left in '73. My daughter was born in '74, in the summer of '74. No, in the summer of '75, I was in the Philippines visiting my parents who were there. And Gerry sent me this article about how there had been this massacre, where, at the center of Santa Clara.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Where they just went in with machine guns and they just mowed people down.

[Assistant] Oh, oh.

[User] And they kidnapped and killed this priest that was working with us, buried him alive in a well.

[Assistant] Oh, my God.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they kidnapped and killed this priest that was working with us, buried him alive in a well.

[Assistant] Oh, my God.

[User] It's, there's a book called, um, oh gosh, what's the name of it? Oh, it's written by Penny Lernoux, who was a journalist in Latin America. And she was, uh, she wrote about the whole thing of liberation theology in Central America. And she's got a chapter on Honduras that tells about it. So. It's terrible.

[Assistant] Awful.

[User] Really terrible.

[Assistant] But in your brief time there, two years, you were able to open the eyes of?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's, there's a book called, um, oh gosh, what's the name of it? Oh, it's written by Penny Lernoux, who was a journalist in Latin America. And she was, uh, she wrote about the whole thing of liberation theology in Central America. And she's got a chapter on Honduras that tells about it. So. It's terrible.

[Assistant] Awful.

[User] Really terrible.

[Assistant] But in your brief time there, two years, you were able to open the eyes of?

[User] 90 women.

[Assistant] 90 women who began to see themselves as.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] 90 women.

[Assistant] 90 women who began to see themselves as.

[User] Who saw themselves as, they saw their lives change.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] It was, it was fabulous. It was just fabulous.

[Assistant] What an incredible story.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Who saw themselves as, they saw their lives change.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] It was, it was fabulous. It was just fabulous.

[Assistant] What an incredible story.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Meanwhile, so there you are in Juticalpa in Honduras, probably writing blue air letters.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was, it was fabulous. It was just fabulous.

[Assistant] What an incredible story.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Meanwhile, so there you are in Juticalpa in Honduras, probably writing blue air letters.

[User] Every day.

[Assistant] To Monsignor Cox and receiving them from him too. I have to ask you if he still has those letters that you wrote? And your mom and dad too you would have been writing.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Meanwhile, so there you are in Juticalpa in Honduras, probably writing blue air letters.

[User] Every day.

[Assistant] To Monsignor Cox and receiving them from him too. I have to ask you if he still has those letters that you wrote? And your mom and dad too you would have been writing.

[User] Yeah, most, I mean, we were writing to each other every day and then we started sending tapes.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Every day.

[Assistant] To Monsignor Cox and receiving them from him too. I have to ask you if he still has those letters that you wrote? And your mom and dad too you would have been writing.

[User] Yeah, most, I mean, we were writing to each other every day and then we started sending tapes.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[User] So I saved all of his. And then he, I finally wrote to him and said, I hope you're saving all this because. And so then he did.

[Assistant] Instead of a journal, you were writing it in letters.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, most, I mean, we were writing to each other every day and then we started sending tapes.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[User] So I saved all of his. And then he, I finally wrote to him and said, I hope you're saving all this because. And so then he did.

[Assistant] Instead of a journal, you were writing it in letters.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] That was your, that was documenting, your documentary of what you were doing every day.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I saved all of his. And then he, I finally wrote to him and said, I hope you're saving all this because. And so then he did.

[Assistant] Instead of a journal, you were writing it in letters.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] That was your, that was documenting, your documentary of what you were doing every day.

[User] Yeah. Yeah.

[Assistant] And did he save them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah.

[Assistant] And did he save them?

[User] He did. And after I told him to, so I have them. I have them. And I was always going to, you know, transcribe. My idea was, I really wanted to write a novel about Honduras because I'm such a reader of novels myself, but it's not really my style. I have taken a couple of creative writing classes, but I can't ever retire to have enough time to do it.

[Assistant] That's it.

[User] But if I ever do. Although writing is such a solitary thing, you kind of have to close yourself off.

[Assistant] But not for, not for 24 hours a day.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He did. And after I told him to, so I have them. I have them. And I was always going to, you know, transcribe. My idea was, I really wanted to write a novel about Honduras because I'm such a reader of novels myself, but it's not really my style. I have taken a couple of creative writing classes, but I can't ever retire to have enough time to do it.

[Assistant] That's it.

[User] But if I ever do. Although writing is such a solitary thing, you kind of have to close yourself off.

[Assistant] But not for, not for 24 hours a day.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So you wrote, you kept, you were in constant contact with Gerry. And then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But if I ever do. Although writing is such a solitary thing, you kind of have to close yourself off.

[Assistant] But not for, not for 24 hours a day.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So you wrote, you kept, you were in constant contact with Gerry. And then?

[User] And then he came to Honduras after I had been there a year. He came that first summer.

[Assistant] Oh, he did.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So you wrote, you kept, you were in constant contact with Gerry. And then?

[User] And then he came to Honduras after I had been there a year. He came that first summer.

[Assistant] Oh, he did.

[User] He came out to Juticalpa and met everybody.

[Assistant] Was he still a priest at that point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He came out to Juticalpa and met everybody.

[Assistant] Was he still a priest at that point?

[User] At that point, after. So he stayed in Santa Rosa for a year after I left. And then he went to Washington, D.C. He, then he decided he was going to leave and he went to Washington, D.C. and some, a friend of his got him a job, which was such a joke, in housing. It was training housing managers of low-income housing projects in Washington, D.C. and he stayed there for two years. No, no, he stayed there, because the first year he was still in Santa Rosa. The second year he was in Washington. And then I got sent by the Peace Corps twice to do stagings. So I got to see him. He came to Honduras, stayed for about five days. And then we traveled in Guatemala.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] And then I came up. The Peace Corps sent me up twice so I could. And then after these stagings, I would see him for a couple of days.

[Assistant] I'm not ready to leave your Peace Corps time in Honduras yet. I'm wondering if Peace Corps came to visit you out in your remote Juticalpa and did they help in any way?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] At that point, after. So he stayed in Santa Rosa for a year after I left. And then he went to Washington, D.C. He, then he decided he was going to leave and he went to Washington, D.C. and some, a friend of his got him a job, which was such a joke, in housing. It was training housing managers of low-income housing projects in Washington, D.C. and he stayed there for two years. No, no, he stayed there, because the first year he was still in Santa Rosa. The second year he was in Washington. And then I got sent by the Peace Corps twice to do stagings. So I got to see him. He came to Honduras, stayed for about five days. And then we traveled in Guatemala.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] And then I came up. The Peace Corps sent me up twice so I could. And then after these stagings, I would see him for a couple of days.

[Assistant] I'm not ready to leave your Peace Corps time in Honduras yet. I'm wondering if Peace Corps came to visit you out in your remote Juticalpa and did they help in any way?

[User] Yes, we had the most fabulous health rep.

[Assistant]
Oh, good.

Ethan. His name is Ethan Van Eck.

A doctor?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then I came up. The Peace Corps sent me up twice so I could. And then after these stagings, I would see him for a couple of days.

[Assistant] I'm not ready to leave your Peace Corps time in Honduras yet. I'm wondering if Peace Corps came to visit you out in your remote Juticalpa and did they help in any way?

[User] Yes, we had the most fabulous health rep.

[Assistant]
Oh, good.

Ethan. His name is Ethan Van Eck.

A doctor?

[User] No. He had a master's in public health planning.

[Assistant] All right. He talked about the work you were doing. He wasn't there to give you your gamma globulin shot or anything.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, we had the most fabulous health rep.

[Assistant]
Oh, good.

Ethan. His name is Ethan Van Eck.

A doctor?

[User] No. He had a master's in public health planning.

[Assistant] All right. He talked about the work you were doing. He wasn't there to give you your gamma globulin shot or anything.

[User] Oh, no, no. No doctors ever came. And I did get deathly ill with parasites.

[Assistant] Oh, I was going to ask.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, no, no. No doctors ever came. And I did get deathly ill with parasites.

[Assistant] Oh, I was going to ask.

[User] I was so sick. I've never been, well, I have been that sick, but yeah. Then you had to go into Tegucigalpa, the 8 hours on the dirt road and the bus to go to get to a, um, what did they give you for, oh, Flagyl.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] There really wasn't any way if you were in the campo. And then, well, see, the other part of this job was after these women finished their course, then once a month, they came back for a refresher.

[Assistant] For a refresher.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was so sick. I've never been, well, I have been that sick, but yeah. Then you had to go into Tegucigalpa, the 8 hours on the dirt road and the bus to go to get to a, um, what did they give you for, oh, Flagyl.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] There really wasn't any way if you were in the campo. And then, well, see, the other part of this job was after these women finished their course, then once a month, they came back for a refresher.

[Assistant] For a refresher.

[User] And then we were supposed to go out. We went out to the villages and then we would stay overnight.

[Assistant] That's when you got sick.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There really wasn't any way if you were in the campo. And then, well, see, the other part of this job was after these women finished their course, then once a month, they came back for a refresher.

[Assistant] For a refresher.

[User] And then we were supposed to go out. We went out to the villages and then we would stay overnight.

[Assistant] That's when you got sick.

[User] And that's when you would get sick.

[Assistant] Yeah, because you took care of your own water and things.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then we were supposed to go out. We went out to the villages and then we would stay overnight.

[Assistant] That's when you got sick.

[User] And that's when you would get sick.

[Assistant] Yeah, because you took care of your own water and things.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] When you were in charge of your cooking, you were okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And that's when you would get sick.

[Assistant] Yeah, because you took care of your own water and things.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] When you were in charge of your cooking, you were okay.

[User] You were okay. But as soon as you went out, there was just no way.

[Assistant] No. And so, um. But then some people did come out to give you some, they could talk to you about the work. Peace Corps would talk to you about the work.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You were okay. But as soon as you went out, there was just no way.

[Assistant] No. And so, um. But then some people did come out to give you some, they could talk to you about the work. Peace Corps would talk to you about the work.

[User] You know what? I was just thinking about the training, the best training. This was another thing that was so, I mean, people always say, oh, you got more than you received. But what I got was professional. I grew professionally.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Because these guys at Caritas were so smart.

[Assistant] Now, these were not Peace Corps guys?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know what? I was just thinking about the training, the best training. This was another thing that was so, I mean, people always say, oh, you got more than you received. But what I got was professional. I grew professionally.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Because these guys at Caritas were so smart.

[Assistant] Now, these were not Peace Corps guys?

[User] No.

[Assistant] They were Caritas guys.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Caritas. And they were giving me all of these things to read in Spanish from Paulo Freire. So I was becoming an, I became an expert in Paulo Freire.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] And then Ethan, he gave us some fabulous training on program planning so that when I went to the School of Public Health and we had to do. Then when I got out of the Peace Corps, I got my master's in public health education at Berkeley. I mean, I was so prepared because he was fabulous and he gave his fantastic training on program planning. How to set goals, you know, goals, objectives, deadlines. Just. I mean, I just grew. I grew. It was a fabulous experience for me, professionally and intellectually challenging. And so he had been and his wife had been Peace Corps volunteers in Malaysia.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And then when they got out of the Peace Corps, he went to get his master's in public health. And they wanted to go of course, they wanted to go back to Malaysia, and they sent them to Honduras. And he was the health rep, I guess, because they had this big health program.

[Assistant] So he was there as staff?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then when they got out of the Peace Corps, he went to get his master's in public health. And they wanted to go of course, they wanted to go back to Malaysia, and they sent them to Honduras. And he was the health rep, I guess, because they had this big health program.

[Assistant] So he was there as staff?

[User] He was staff, yeah. And we just became, he and his wife. His wife and I are still very close.

[Assistant] Wonderful.

[User] Very divorced. But he liked me and I loved him. And so I would always stay with him when I went in. Well, I would stay with Linda or with them. And he came out a lot. And well, after that massacre happened, you know, he. I mean, it's a miracle they let, they let me stay out there really.

[Assistant] Well, how was it? It seems. How was it that you found yourself in Tegucigalpa when the massacre was happening?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was staff, yeah. And we just became, he and his wife. His wife and I are still very close.

[Assistant] Wonderful.

[User] Very divorced. But he liked me and I loved him. And so I would always stay with him when I went in. Well, I would stay with Linda or with them. And he came out a lot. And well, after that massacre happened, you know, he. I mean, it's a miracle they let, they let me stay out there really.

[Assistant] Well, how was it? It seems. How was it that you found yourself in Tegucigalpa when the massacre was happening?

[User] Because I was going, I had gone in to do this Caritas national training for promotores sociales.

[Assistant] So you were in the capital city for further training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so this was the first training course, and Linda Freed and I were giving it.

[Assistant] I see.

[User] Along with other people.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] We were part of the crew.

[Assistant] This is like maybe in your second year or something?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, this was, this was in like November.

[Assistant] Oh, oh.

[User] I mean, we were like.

[Assistant] Yeah, wow.

[User] I mean, you hear, I hear about these volunteers who say, well, I really didn't do anything, you know.

[Assistant] You did a whole lot.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, you hear, I hear about these volunteers who say, well, I really didn't do anything, you know.

[Assistant] You did a whole lot.

[User] I couldn't figure out what to do. I mean, these guys knew what they wanted us to do.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So we were so lucky.

[Assistant] That you fell into a organized program.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So we were so lucky.

[Assistant] That you fell into a organized program.

[User] Yeah. And so. So when it happened, we were. The guy who was my boss, who was the Centro Santa Clara director, he was in there too. So we went back and then Ethan came out and he was like, you know, are you safe? And then by that point, we all, he and I really knew what was, I mean, they were, they were, they were doing revolution.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It was revolution. And I was part of it as a Peace Corps, which we weren't supposed to do. But he let me stay.

[Assistant] Well, that whole program of Caritas was a revolutionary thing of.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And so. So when it happened, we were. The guy who was my boss, who was the Centro Santa Clara director, he was in there too. So we went back and then Ethan came out and he was like, you know, are you safe? And then by that point, we all, he and I really knew what was, I mean, they were, they were, they were doing revolution.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It was revolution. And I was part of it as a Peace Corps, which we weren't supposed to do. But he let me stay.

[Assistant] Well, that whole program of Caritas was a revolutionary thing of.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Of poor peasant people realizing that they were intelligent human beings.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was revolution. And I was part of it as a Peace Corps, which we weren't supposed to do. But he let me stay.

[Assistant] Well, that whole program of Caritas was a revolutionary thing of.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Of poor peasant people realizing that they were intelligent human beings.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Of equal worth. And that's a revolutionary idea.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly. So. So, I mean, that was really the only time that I was there. Although once I was there, another thing they were doing was organizing co-ops, little co-op stores. And I was at this village at night with these guys, these social promoters and my boss, and we were having this meeting about the co-op and somebody came with and shot a gun into the room where we were meeting.

[Assistant] My God.

[User] And we, there was no electricity in these villages. We had these lanterns. So they, you know, the lantern went out and everybody, you know, they were like, fall on the floor. But that was just a single crackpot guy. That wasn't like the military coming in, which happened later after I left.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So yeah. So I got a lot of support from Ethan and a lot of professional training from him.

[Assistant] So you stayed for a full two years. Did your role there change in any way as time went on into the second year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we, there was no electricity in these villages. We had these lanterns. So they, you know, the lantern went out and everybody, you know, they were like, fall on the floor. But that was just a single crackpot guy. That wasn't like the military coming in, which happened later after I left.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So yeah. So I got a lot of support from Ethan and a lot of professional training from him.

[Assistant] So you stayed for a full two years. Did your role there change in any way as time went on into the second year?

[User] Well, the last, the end, then I was asked by Peace Corps to go to Costa Rica for three months to train that this new group that was coming in.

[Assistant] To prepare them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So yeah. So I got a lot of support from Ethan and a lot of professional training from him.

[Assistant] So you stayed for a full two years. Did your role there change in any way as time went on into the second year?

[User] Well, the last, the end, then I was asked by Peace Corps to go to Costa Rica for three months to train that this new group that was coming in.

[Assistant] To prepare them.

[User] Right. And in the meantime, when Gerry had come to visit, he had met the director of Peace Corps, who was this guy.

[Assistant] The director of Peace Corps Honduras?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And in the meantime, when Gerry had come to visit, he had met the director of Peace Corps, who was this guy.

[Assistant] The director of Peace Corps Honduras?

[User] Honduras.

[Assistant] Country director.

[User] The country director who, this was in the, this was in the Nixon era. He was a Nixon appointee. And he was this rancher, Republican rancher from New Mexico, who had like these turquoise belts and stuff.

[Assistant] I can see him with a big hat on.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Honduras.

[Assistant] Country director.

[User] The country director who, this was in the, this was in the Nixon era. He was a Nixon appointee. And he was this rancher, Republican rancher from New Mexico, who had like these turquoise belts and stuff.

[Assistant] I can see him with a big hat on.

[User] And he really liked Gerry, really liked him. And so, so he had. What had happened was, Peace Corps was going to open up their own training in country. And they asked me if I would stay and be part of the training. And this guy had offered Gerry the position of the education rep because the education rep had been moved to the Dominican Republic. So when I, so when I. So the last three months I was there, I went to Bosico, which was this training center in Guanacaste in Costa Rica. And then I left, I came back to Honduras and helped take these people I had trained to their villages. And came home and we were going to get married and then we were going to go back to Honduras. And I didn't even bring anything home. I left my stuff down there.

[Assistant] Because you were going to go back.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The country director who, this was in the, this was in the Nixon era. He was a Nixon appointee. And he was this rancher, Republican rancher from New Mexico, who had like these turquoise belts and stuff.

[Assistant] I can see him with a big hat on.

[User] And he really liked Gerry, really liked him. And so, so he had. What had happened was, Peace Corps was going to open up their own training in country. And they asked me if I would stay and be part of the training. And this guy had offered Gerry the position of the education rep because the education rep had been moved to the Dominican Republic. So when I, so when I. So the last three months I was there, I went to Bosico, which was this training center in Guanacaste in Costa Rica. And then I left, I came back to Honduras and helped take these people I had trained to their villages. And came home and we were going to get married and then we were going to go back to Honduras. And I didn't even bring anything home. I left my stuff down there.

[Assistant] Because you were going to go back.

[User] I was going to go back. And then what happened was Peace Corps Washington. So the Peace Corps director had, you know, this was a three year contract. The rep positions were for three years. Peace Corps Washington wouldn't approve the contract for three years. They would only approve it to finish out the term of the guy who had left, which was one year. And Gerry was like, I'm not going to go down there for one year.

[Assistant] For one year, huh.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And he really liked Gerry, really liked him. And so, so he had. What had happened was, Peace Corps was going to open up their own training in country. And they asked me if I would stay and be part of the training. And this guy had offered Gerry the position of the education rep because the education rep had been moved to the Dominican Republic. So when I, so when I. So the last three months I was there, I went to Bosico, which was this training center in Guanacaste in Costa Rica. And then I left, I came back to Honduras and helped take these people I had trained to their villages. And came home and we were going to get married and then we were going to go back to Honduras. And I didn't even bring anything home. I left my stuff down there.

[Assistant] Because you were going to go back.

[User] I was going to go back. And then what happened was Peace Corps Washington. So the Peace Corps director had, you know, this was a three year contract. The rep positions were for three years. Peace Corps Washington wouldn't approve the contract for three years. They would only approve it to finish out the term of the guy who had left, which was one year. And Gerry was like, I'm not going to go down there for one year.

[Assistant] For one year, huh.

[User] And probably it was for the best. You know, it's hard to. Probably better for us to start our life in a new place for both of us than for him to try to.

[Assistant] Come into your world.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was going to go back. And then what happened was Peace Corps Washington. So the Peace Corps director had, you know, this was a three year contract. The rep positions were for three years. Peace Corps Washington wouldn't approve the contract for three years. They would only approve it to finish out the term of the guy who had left, which was one year. And Gerry was like, I'm not going to go down there for one year.

[Assistant] For one year, huh.

[User] And probably it was for the best. You know, it's hard to. Probably better for us to start our life in a new place for both of us than for him to try to.

[Assistant] Come into your world.

[User] Yeah. But I was devastated. I was like, how do you go on with your life? How do you just walk out of this? You know, you walk out of this reality of these people whose lives are so, uh, oppressed. And you just go back to your comfortable life? So I was, you know, for a year, I was like just so.

[Assistant] Now this is the year after you left?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And probably it was for the best. You know, it's hard to. Probably better for us to start our life in a new place for both of us than for him to try to.

[Assistant] Come into your world.

[User] Yeah. But I was devastated. I was like, how do you go on with your life? How do you just walk out of this? You know, you walk out of this reality of these people whose lives are so, uh, oppressed. And you just go back to your comfortable life? So I was, you know, for a year, I was like just so.

[Assistant] Now this is the year after you left?

[User] When I came back, yeah.

[Assistant] Where did you go when you came back?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. But I was devastated. I was like, how do you go on with your life? How do you just walk out of this? You know, you walk out of this reality of these people whose lives are so, uh, oppressed. And you just go back to your comfortable life? So I was, you know, for a year, I was like just so.

[Assistant] Now this is the year after you left?

[User] When I came back, yeah.

[Assistant] Where did you go when you came back?

[User] We came back to the Bay Area.

[Assistant] And you're married?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When I came back, yeah.

[Assistant] Where did you go when you came back?

[User] We came back to the Bay Area.

[Assistant] And you're married?

[User] We got married in Spokane at my parents’ house in August.

[Assistant] Oh, how nice.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We came back to the Bay Area.

[Assistant] And you're married?

[User] We got married in Spokane at my parents’ house in August.

[Assistant] Oh, how nice.

[User] And then we came down.

[Assistant] And that was how long after leaving Honduras?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We got married in Spokane at my parents’ house in August.

[Assistant] Oh, how nice.

[User] And then we came down.

[Assistant] And that was how long after leaving Honduras?

[User] I left in July. My sister. My sister came down and we had, we took the bus. We were going to take the bus all the way to LA. We got to Mexico City and my sister.

[Assistant] You mean coming up from Honduras?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then we came down.

[Assistant] And that was how long after leaving Honduras?

[User] I left in July. My sister. My sister came down and we had, we took the bus. We were going to take the bus all the way to LA. We got to Mexico City and my sister.

[Assistant] You mean coming up from Honduras?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And you're together with?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I left in July. My sister. My sister came down and we had, we took the bus. We were going to take the bus all the way to LA. We got to Mexico City and my sister.

[Assistant] You mean coming up from Honduras?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And you're together with?

[User] My sister.

[Assistant] Your sister? Not Jerry at this point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My sister.

[Assistant] Your sister? Not Jerry at this point?

[User] No. Jerry was in Washington, D.C.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] He was finishing his job in Washington, D.C. And somy sister had a boyfriend in Washington, D.C. She came to Honduras, spent a couple of weeks, and then we took the bus.

[Assistant] Okay. So you're going up through.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Jerry was in Washington, D.C.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] He was finishing his job in Washington, D.C. And somy sister had a boyfriend in Washington, D.C. She came to Honduras, spent a couple of weeks, and then we took the bus.

[Assistant] Okay. So you're going up through.

[User] We came through Guatemala.

[Assistant] El Salvador, Guatemala.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was finishing his job in Washington, D.C. And somy sister had a boyfriend in Washington, D.C. She came to Honduras, spent a couple of weeks, and then we took the bus.

[Assistant] Okay. So you're going up through.

[User] We came through Guatemala.

[Assistant] El Salvador, Guatemala.

[User] Right. We spent.

[Assistant] Up through Mexico.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. We spent.

[Assistant] Up through Mexico.

[User] And then we were going to go to LA and take the bus, I mean, and then fly from LA to Washington, D.C.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But we got to, as far as Mexico City and my sister was as sick as a dog. She'd gotten sick in El Salvador and everything in Mexico was so much more expensive than it had been in the Central America, even though it was much cheaper than the U.S.

[Assistant] Yeah, but still. And you're on a Peace Corps living?