{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 24.32093342005633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To go to a South Pacific island or someplace in the Caribbean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they didn't send you there, did they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they said, how about Afghanistan? And I had to find a globe back then to see where Afghanistan was. I started on the wrong continent, on Africa. Interesting and sorted out. Eventually found it in South Asia, Asia, Central Asia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, there's just kind of in-between. Exactly. And so you joined really wanted to travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And to learn of other cultures and people and experience living in a world that would be different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your application process like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.5788149111737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they said, how about Afghanistan? And I had to find a globe back then to see where Afghanistan was. I started on the wrong continent, on Africa. Interesting and sorted out. Eventually found it in South Asia, Asia, Central Asia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, there's just kind of in-between. Exactly. And so you joined really wanted to travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And to learn of other cultures and people and experience living in a world that would be different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your application process like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I graduated in those early summer, June of ‘72, and applied and it wasn't difficult. We had what was called a pre invitational staging where we met a group of people and the Peace Corps had psychiatrists and others there to lead us out. And those of us who didn't get weeded were invited to get tickets to Washington and fly to Afghanistan in December."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew that they were psychologists watching you at your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 25.087572123526336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And to learn of other cultures and people and experience living in a world that would be different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your application process like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I graduated in those early summer, June of ‘72, and applied and it wasn't difficult. We had what was called a pre invitational staging where we met a group of people and the Peace Corps had psychiatrists and others there to lead us out. And those of us who didn't get weeded were invited to get tickets to Washington and fly to Afghanistan in December."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew that they were psychologists watching you at your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You all knew that ahead of time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.652857915029262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I graduated in those early summer, June of ‘72, and applied and it wasn't difficult. We had what was called a pre invitational staging where we met a group of people and the Peace Corps had psychiatrists and others there to lead us out. And those of us who didn't get weeded were invited to get tickets to Washington and fly to Afghanistan in December."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew that they were psychologists watching you at your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You all knew that ahead of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was in a pre-invitation. What we did in country was pre invitation. They switched from in country in the U.S. to in country of the host country, about ‘68, ‘69. They switched from calling them cycles to whatever they were called for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. So your pre-invitation, where was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 27.392064350032513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You all knew that ahead of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was in a pre-invitation. What we did in country was pre invitation. They switched from in country in the U.S. to in country of the host country, about ‘68, ‘69. They switched from calling them cycles to whatever they were called for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. So your pre-invitation, where was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At Chicago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Chicago? Yeah, close by. And so was just like maybe three days or so?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 27.10229372225835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was in a pre-invitation. What we did in country was pre invitation. They switched from in country in the U.S. to in country of the host country, about ‘68, ‘69. They switched from calling them cycles to whatever they were called for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. So your pre-invitation, where was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At Chicago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Chicago? Yeah, close by. And so was just like maybe three days or so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a weekend. My wife at the time and I drove over to Chicago from Fort Wayne and met folks and went to an Indian restaurant with one of the recruiters that had brought people there. And it was a good time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. And so then you did in countries training after that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 27.89143746917594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At Chicago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Chicago? Yeah, close by. And so was just like maybe three days or so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a weekend. My wife at the time and I drove over to Chicago from Fort Wayne and met folks and went to an Indian restaurant with one of the recruiters that had brought people there. And it was a good time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. And so then you did in countries training after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Kabul, December 13."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And how long was your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 26.54604163241771, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a weekend. My wife at the time and I drove over to Chicago from Fort Wayne and met folks and went to an Indian restaurant with one of the recruiters that had brought people there. And it was a good time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. And so then you did in countries training after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Kabul, December 13."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And how long was your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was three months. And school starts right after the New Year's celebration, which is March 21 in Afghanistan. So we trained from the time we got there till we deployed on the Nowruz holiday weekend to our site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Very nice. And then when did you know what your site was going to be? Did you visit it during training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 27.273379591575235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Kabul, December 13."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And how long was your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was three months. And school starts right after the New Year's celebration, which is March 21 in Afghanistan. So we trained from the time we got there till we deployed on the Nowruz holiday weekend to our site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Very nice. And then when did you know what your site was going to be? Did you visit it during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't. They did the selection. There were there were like a I don't know, half a dozen married couples and 40 in our group. And I think we found out that our site after we were there maybe two months. And so we had about a month to prepare for moving to a remote town in Afghanistan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was your site at then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.303755101750262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was three months. And school starts right after the New Year's celebration, which is March 21 in Afghanistan. So we trained from the time we got there till we deployed on the Nowruz holiday weekend to our site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Very nice. And then when did you know what your site was going to be? Did you visit it during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't. They did the selection. There were there were like a I don't know, half a dozen married couples and 40 in our group. And I think we found out that our site after we were there maybe two months. And so we had about a month to prepare for moving to a remote town in Afghanistan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was your site at then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Taloqan, Afghanistan, Northeast River Road between Kunduz, which you hear about in the news frequently because of violence now. And Fayzabad, which was the entrance to the walk on corridor, which is the old Silk Road over to China between the Pamir and the Hindu Kush Mountains, trying to make a 30 mile wide corridor and common border with China. So it was remote and took a better part of a day to get there from Kabul."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So and what kind of form of transportation was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.004172335278067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't. They did the selection. There were there were like a I don't know, half a dozen married couples and 40 in our group. And I think we found out that our site after we were there maybe two months. And so we had about a month to prepare for moving to a remote town in Afghanistan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was your site at then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Taloqan, Afghanistan, Northeast River Road between Kunduz, which you hear about in the news frequently because of violence now. And Fayzabad, which was the entrance to the walk on corridor, which is the old Silk Road over to China between the Pamir and the Hindu Kush Mountains, trying to make a 30 mile wide corridor and common border with China. So it was remote and took a better part of a day to get there from Kabul."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So and what kind of form of transportation was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took like they were Toyota minibuses, like 15 passenger busses that took us from Kabul through the mountain Pass, Salang Pass and to Kunduz. And then we took Russian troop carrier called awaz, it was four wheel drive along the road next to the river or while the river was dry, you could ride the riverbed because it was more smoother than the road. And in the spring, the river washed out the road. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a journey to get there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.89352481697563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Taloqan, Afghanistan, Northeast River Road between Kunduz, which you hear about in the news frequently because of violence now. And Fayzabad, which was the entrance to the walk on corridor, which is the old Silk Road over to China between the Pamir and the Hindu Kush Mountains, trying to make a 30 mile wide corridor and common border with China. So it was remote and took a better part of a day to get there from Kabul."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So and what kind of form of transportation was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took like they were Toyota minibuses, like 15 passenger busses that took us from Kabul through the mountain Pass, Salang Pass and to Kunduz. And then we took Russian troop carrier called awaz, it was four wheel drive along the road next to the river or while the river was dry, you could ride the riverbed because it was more smoother than the road. And in the spring, the river washed out the road. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a journey to get there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then we got there. Were there other volunteers besides your wife in the community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.659472018861813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took like they were Toyota minibuses, like 15 passenger busses that took us from Kabul through the mountain Pass, Salang Pass and to Kunduz. And then we took Russian troop carrier called awaz, it was four wheel drive along the road next to the river or while the river was dry, you could ride the riverbed because it was more smoother than the road. And in the spring, the river washed out the road. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a journey to get there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then we got there. Were there other volunteers besides your wife in the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Taloqan. There were volunteers in Kunduz to the other married couples. So the four of them were went to Kunduz at that time. There was a town in between us, Khanabad that had volunteers have been there for a year already. And there were volunteers beyond us and Fayzabad. So we're and there had been volunteers in Taloqan once before. So we were the second volunteers in that site. We didn't meet them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, OK, so they had already been gone before you got there? Yeah, that's interesting. Did you spend a lot of time with the other volunteers? Did you all socialize or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.621635576513125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then we got there. Were there other volunteers besides your wife in the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Taloqan. There were volunteers in Kunduz to the other married couples. So the four of them were went to Kunduz at that time. There was a town in between us, Khanabad that had volunteers have been there for a year already. And there were volunteers beyond us and Fayzabad. So we're and there had been volunteers in Taloqan once before. So we were the second volunteers in that site. We didn't meet them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, OK, so they had already been gone before you got there? Yeah, that's interesting. Did you spend a lot of time with the other volunteers? Did you all socialize or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we socialize but usually at holiday school breaks we were all teachers and that and that in that corner. Yeah. And there were some. The single volunteers that we're doing, other projects that would travel through from time to time, and so they'd camp out at our place, but that was infrequent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's interesting. And so who was your in country counterpart that you worked with or did you not have one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 21.801817307236806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Taloqan. There were volunteers in Kunduz to the other married couples. So the four of them were went to Kunduz at that time. There was a town in between us, Khanabad that had volunteers have been there for a year already. And there were volunteers beyond us and Fayzabad. So we're and there had been volunteers in Taloqan once before. So we were the second volunteers in that site. We didn't meet them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, OK, so they had already been gone before you got there? Yeah, that's interesting. Did you spend a lot of time with the other volunteers? Did you all socialize or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we socialize but usually at holiday school breaks we were all teachers and that and that in that corner. Yeah. And there were some. The single volunteers that we're doing, other projects that would travel through from time to time, and so they'd camp out at our place, but that was infrequent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's interesting. And so who was your in country counterpart that you worked with or did you not have one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Taloqan we, our landlord and the assistant principal at school I taught in they shared an adjacent compound with a wall between us with a shared outhouse and and well pit, water pit that it was a junior running ditch running water ditch that brought water into the compound and back out to the neighbor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it wasn't necessarily clean drinking water. You had to boil it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.890908119152005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we socialize but usually at holiday school breaks we were all teachers and that and that in that corner. Yeah. And there were some. The single volunteers that we're doing, other projects that would travel through from time to time, and so they'd camp out at our place, but that was infrequent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's interesting. And so who was your in country counterpart that you worked with or did you not have one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Taloqan we, our landlord and the assistant principal at school I taught in they shared an adjacent compound with a wall between us with a shared outhouse and and well pit, water pit that it was a junior running ditch running water ditch that brought water into the compound and back out to the neighbor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it wasn't necessarily clean drinking water. You had to boil it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a daily activity to bring water in and let it settle for a day. So the mud fell out and boil it and move it and do another. Yeah. You know, keep staging fresh water from the day before, you know, for use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did the Afghanistans also boil the water?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.212120132391117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Taloqan we, our landlord and the assistant principal at school I taught in they shared an adjacent compound with a wall between us with a shared outhouse and and well pit, water pit that it was a junior running ditch running water ditch that brought water into the compound and back out to the neighbor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it wasn't necessarily clean drinking water. You had to boil it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a daily activity to bring water in and let it settle for a day. So the mud fell out and boil it and move it and do another. Yeah. You know, keep staging fresh water from the day before, you know, for use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did the Afghanistans also boil the water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. And so were they often sick or were they immune to it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.569022369323463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a daily activity to bring water in and let it settle for a day. So the mud fell out and boil it and move it and do another. Yeah. You know, keep staging fresh water from the day before, you know, for use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did the Afghanistans also boil the water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. And so were they often sick or were they immune to it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just had a high infant mortality and childhood mortality. It was like 20, 25 percent of children died before the age of seven. Mostly from dysentery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's really sad."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.187802632581626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. And so were they often sick or were they immune to it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just had a high infant mortality and childhood mortality. It was like 20, 25 percent of children died before the age of seven. Mostly from dysentery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's really sad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That at that time is right. It's much better now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But yeah, water is so precious. You have to spend all day so you can drink it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.98644736953514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just had a high infant mortality and childhood mortality. It was like 20, 25 percent of children died before the age of seven. Mostly from dysentery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's really sad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That at that time is right. It's much better now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But yeah, water is so precious. You have to spend all day so you can drink it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We also had GI issued iodine tablets that we used when we traveled, and they were awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They taste horrible, don’t they? It's not refreshing at all."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.09605263281682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That at that time is right. It's much better now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But yeah, water is so precious. You have to spend all day so you can drink it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We also had GI issued iodine tablets that we used when we traveled, and they were awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They taste horrible, don’t they? It's not refreshing at all."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we used those to wash fruit that we might buy that we want like fresh fruit or things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To be safe. It’s wise."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 34.55116959201869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We also had GI issued iodine tablets that we used when we traveled, and they were awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They taste horrible, don’t they? It's not refreshing at all."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we used those to wash fruit that we might buy that we want like fresh fruit or things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To be safe. It’s wise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Or while we traveled, we drank the stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do a lot of traveling in country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 32.83463288002076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we used those to wash fruit that we might buy that we want like fresh fruit or things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To be safe. It’s wise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Or while we traveled, we drank the stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do a lot of traveling in country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we've seen, I saw. Our first trip actually was to Mazar- i-Sharif in the north west corner. We were in the northeast and I had a kidney stone and got medevacked. I mean it was just, or no, that wasn't our first trip. Anyway, we there's a ring road around Afghanistan and we took the ring across the north to Mazar-i-Sharif on one end and we took the ring around the south and went to Herat and Kandahar that you hear about in the news and several other historic kinds of locations. We visited volunteers in those cities when we were traveling and back and forth to Kabul to get more shots. Frequently we had lots of shots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have to keep your hepatitis up. Yeah, lots of shots. I don't even know what Afghanistan really looks like countryside. Like what did it look like while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.0057196049639, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we've seen, I saw. Our first trip actually was to Mazar- i-Sharif in the north west corner. We were in the northeast and I had a kidney stone and got medevacked. I mean it was just, or no, that wasn't our first trip. Anyway, we there's a ring road around Afghanistan and we took the ring across the north to Mazar-i-Sharif on one end and we took the ring around the south and went to Herat and Kandahar that you hear about in the news and several other historic kinds of locations. We visited volunteers in those cities when we were traveling and back and forth to Kabul to get more shots. Frequently we had lots of shots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have to keep your hepatitis up. Yeah, lots of shots. I don't even know what Afghanistan really looks like countryside. Like what did it look like while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very dry, except for about two weeks in the spring that turned lush green. Oh, we were in the northern steppes, you know, the Asian steppes from Mongolia across the river, you know, so it's for Afghanistan. It was relatively flat. There were hills around Taloqan, but it quickly rose into mountainous. The Hindu Kush is, which means Hindu Killer Mountains. Kush is to kill. And it kept those Hindus out of Afghanistan, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those troublemakers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So anyway, it's very, very mountainous and traveling from north to south or from one region to another, you're constantly going through mountain passes. And you know, it's an interesting the central region of Afghanistan was probably our favorite as Bamiyan, Where the Buddhas were that the Taliban blew up in 2001, spring of 2001. Before 9/11 happened, they blew centuries old, 280 foot tall Buddha off of the face of the cliff. And it was it was a worldwide historic site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So horrible. But you got to see it before they blew it up."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.561910672182112, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very dry, except for about two weeks in the spring that turned lush green. Oh, we were in the northern steppes, you know, the Asian steppes from Mongolia across the river, you know, so it's for Afghanistan. It was relatively flat. There were hills around Taloqan, but it quickly rose into mountainous. The Hindu Kush is, which means Hindu Killer Mountains. Kush is to kill. And it kept those Hindus out of Afghanistan, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those troublemakers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So anyway, it's very, very mountainous and traveling from north to south or from one region to another, you're constantly going through mountain passes. And you know, it's an interesting the central region of Afghanistan was probably our favorite as Bamiyan, Where the Buddhas were that the Taliban blew up in 2001, spring of 2001. Before 9/11 happened, they blew centuries old, 280 foot tall Buddha off of the face of the cliff. And it was it was a worldwide historic site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So horrible. But you got to see it before they blew it up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the head of the Buddha, I've been on the head of the Buddha."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you can climb up it and stuff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 28.402122969091234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So anyway, it's very, very mountainous and traveling from north to south or from one region to another, you're constantly going through mountain passes. And you know, it's an interesting the central region of Afghanistan was probably our favorite as Bamiyan, Where the Buddhas were that the Taliban blew up in 2001, spring of 2001. Before 9/11 happened, they blew centuries old, 280 foot tall Buddha off of the face of the cliff. And it was it was a worldwide historic site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So horrible. But you got to see it before they blew it up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the head of the Buddha, I've been on the head of the Buddha."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you can climb up it and stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it had a staircase behind it, a spiral staircase. At one time there were 2000 monks that lived in the in the cliff caves alongside and had frescoes above and the staircase that came out onto the head. You walked out really literally onto the head of the Buddha and looked out of the valley in front of you. Sounds gorgeous. I pictures of it. And so. They're hanging in my living room now. One of my favorite images of Afghanistan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is it greener there in the central area or is it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 27.113469965656925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the head of the Buddha, I've been on the head of the Buddha."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you can climb up it and stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it had a staircase behind it, a spiral staircase. At one time there were 2000 monks that lived in the in the cliff caves alongside and had frescoes above and the staircase that came out onto the head. You walked out really literally onto the head of the Buddha and looked out of the valley in front of you. Sounds gorgeous. I pictures of it. And so. They're hanging in my living room now. One of my favorite images of Afghanistan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is it greener there in the central area or is it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, Bamiyan is a little bit compared to Idaho. It's a potato growing region. Ok, and so the fields are potato fields and they irrigate. And so they're pretty green throughout the growing season and pretty cold and snowy in the winter and locked in because the mountain passes are closed off. And the Taliban wanted to kill the Hazara people who lived in that region. So they tried to starve them out. They had"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even in the ‘70s?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.903855517396583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it had a staircase behind it, a spiral staircase. At one time there were 2000 monks that lived in the in the cliff caves alongside and had frescoes above and the staircase that came out onto the head. You walked out really literally onto the head of the Buddha and looked out of the valley in front of you. Sounds gorgeous. I pictures of it. And so. They're hanging in my living room now. One of my favorite images of Afghanistan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is it greener there in the central area or is it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, Bamiyan is a little bit compared to Idaho. It's a potato growing region. Ok, and so the fields are potato fields and they irrigate. And so they're pretty green throughout the growing season and pretty cold and snowy in the winter and locked in because the mountain passes are closed off. And the Taliban wanted to kill the Hazara people who lived in that region. So they tried to starve them out. They had"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even in the ‘70s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, in the ‘90s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the ‘90s, OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.89317279710731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, Bamiyan is a little bit compared to Idaho. It's a potato growing region. Ok, and so the fields are potato fields and they irrigate. And so they're pretty green throughout the growing season and pretty cold and snowy in the winter and locked in because the mountain passes are closed off. And the Taliban wanted to kill the Hazara people who lived in that region. So they tried to starve them out. They had"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even in the ‘70s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, in the ‘90s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the ‘90s, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When they got control of the country in ‘96, that's so that region, that population or the ones that were most affected by the by the wars, the civil wars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a shame. Your favorite area."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 30.992414219008122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, in the ‘90s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the ‘90s, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When they got control of the country in ‘96, that's so that region, that population or the ones that were most affected by the by the wars, the civil wars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a shame. Your favorite area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And the people too. They were awesome. Just wonderful people. Shia Muslim versus Sunni and the Taliban were, you know, a radical Sunni sect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the Taliban there at all when you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.99157135445347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When they got control of the country in ‘96, that's so that region, that population or the ones that were most affected by the by the wars, the civil wars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a shame. Your favorite area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And the people too. They were awesome. Just wonderful people. Shia Muslim versus Sunni and the Taliban were, you know, a radical Sunni sect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the Taliban there at all when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much. The Pashtun tribal region was much more conservative. Women wore what they call a burka here. It's a chadaree in Farsi. And in the south, the Pashtunwali, the tribal code of ethics was thought to be religious, but it was really a tribal code expressed in the simple Zan-Zar and Zameen, don't mess with my women, my gold or my land. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's kind of common to go by, you know?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 33.323968171614965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And the people too. They were awesome. Just wonderful people. Shia Muslim versus Sunni and the Taliban were, you know, a radical Sunni sect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the Taliban there at all when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much. The Pashtun tribal region was much more conservative. Women wore what they call a burka here. It's a chadaree in Farsi. And in the south, the Pashtunwali, the tribal code of ethics was thought to be religious, but it was really a tribal code expressed in the simple Zan-Zar and Zameen, don't mess with my women, my gold or my land. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's kind of common to go by, you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that’s the tribal code."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the Taliban kind of did all. Wow. So your project, you taught English. What was the main language that they did speak there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 31.471075746238846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much. The Pashtun tribal region was much more conservative. Women wore what they call a burka here. It's a chadaree in Farsi. And in the south, the Pashtunwali, the tribal code of ethics was thought to be religious, but it was really a tribal code expressed in the simple Zan-Zar and Zameen, don't mess with my women, my gold or my land. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's kind of common to go by, you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that’s the tribal code."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the Taliban kind of did all. Wow. So your project, you taught English. What was the main language that they did speak there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dari was common throughout all of the northern regions and under Zahir Shah when we were in Taloqan, they had been teaching English in high schools and starting in 9th grade through 12th grade, I don't know, probably for 20 or more years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you got there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 27.190084162487604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that’s the tribal code."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the Taliban kind of did all. Wow. So your project, you taught English. What was the main language that they did speak there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dari was common throughout all of the northern regions and under Zahir Shah when we were in Taloqan, they had been teaching English in high schools and starting in 9th grade through 12th grade, I don't know, probably for 20 or more years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before we got to Taloqan, the Peace Corps started sending volunteers in 1962. It was one of the early countries to Afghanistan. And Zahir Shah, the king, had convinced the United States to build a dam in southern Afghanistan, in Helmand Province, to dam the Helmand River. And so there was a big USAID project and lots of engineers who built the Hoover Dam in the United States. And they built the Helmand Dam and opened up a desert region to irrigation farming. So, I mean, it was and there were hundreds of USAID engineers and their families in Kabul while we were there. Oh, wow. So and we had over 300 volunteers in country while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a lot."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.988982402764005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dari was common throughout all of the northern regions and under Zahir Shah when we were in Taloqan, they had been teaching English in high schools and starting in 9th grade through 12th grade, I don't know, probably for 20 or more years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before we got to Taloqan, the Peace Corps started sending volunteers in 1962. It was one of the early countries to Afghanistan. And Zahir Shah, the king, had convinced the United States to build a dam in southern Afghanistan, in Helmand Province, to dam the Helmand River. And so there was a big USAID project and lots of engineers who built the Hoover Dam in the United States. And they built the Helmand Dam and opened up a desert region to irrigation farming. So, I mean, it was and there were hundreds of USAID engineers and their families in Kabul while we were there. Oh, wow. So and we had over 300 volunteers in country while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a big program. Effective program. The other programs in Afghanistan, the smallpox eradication teams of American nurses eradicated smallpox from the last holdout on earth, in Afghanistan. And now it's the last holdout for a few cases of polio, so that and Somalia right now are the only places with polio. So but the Peace Corps nurses are credited with that. And there were other programs, food for work and banking and agriculture product projects as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you taught English in the school system. Was it an elementary school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.987758225293337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before we got to Taloqan, the Peace Corps started sending volunteers in 1962. It was one of the early countries to Afghanistan. And Zahir Shah, the king, had convinced the United States to build a dam in southern Afghanistan, in Helmand Province, to dam the Helmand River. And so there was a big USAID project and lots of engineers who built the Hoover Dam in the United States. And they built the Helmand Dam and opened up a desert region to irrigation farming. So, I mean, it was and there were hundreds of USAID engineers and their families in Kabul while we were there. Oh, wow. So and we had over 300 volunteers in country while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a big program. Effective program. The other programs in Afghanistan, the smallpox eradication teams of American nurses eradicated smallpox from the last holdout on earth, in Afghanistan. And now it's the last holdout for a few cases of polio, so that and Somalia right now are the only places with polio. So but the Peace Corps nurses are credited with that. And there were other programs, food for work and banking and agriculture product projects as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you taught English in the school system. Was it an elementary school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, it was a high school in the first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "High school. They still did high school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.20862025032593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a big program. Effective program. The other programs in Afghanistan, the smallpox eradication teams of American nurses eradicated smallpox from the last holdout on earth, in Afghanistan. And now it's the last holdout for a few cases of polio, so that and Somalia right now are the only places with polio. So but the Peace Corps nurses are credited with that. And there were other programs, food for work and banking and agriculture product projects as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you taught English in the school system. Was it an elementary school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, it was a high school in the first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "High school. They still did high school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, the first year was Taloqan High School. And then because of the medevac kidney stone episode, we transferred to Kabul. So I'd be closer to medical help because they had to fly me with the embassy plane back when I had the kidney stone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And was it a fancy plane?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 35.78735583369547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, it was a high school in the first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "High school. They still did high school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, the first year was Taloqan High School. And then because of the medevac kidney stone episode, we transferred to Kabul. So I'd be closer to medical help because they had to fly me with the embassy plane back when I had the kidney stone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And was it a fancy plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a really nice plane. That was that was the easiest travel in all of Afghanistan was on the embassy plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did they actually come to your site and medevac you from there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 33.097062037439414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, the first year was Taloqan High School. And then because of the medevac kidney stone episode, we transferred to Kabul. So I'd be closer to medical help because they had to fly me with the embassy plane back when I had the kidney stone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And was it a fancy plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a really nice plane. That was that was the easiest travel in all of Afghanistan was on the embassy plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did they actually come to your site and medevac you from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, I was traveling I was in the northwest area very shortly after that happened. Mazar had a was a larger city and had an airport that. Embassy had flown to before one strange place for them to go at that time. I tried flying out of Taloqan one time to go back to Kabul and the internal airlines was called back to and they flew Canadian otter's that are designed for, you know, water landing. And there was no water to be landed on. I mean, they didn't have to. Interesting. But the Canadians used them in the central region of. But they're the only the pilot had oxygen. The ceiling was like 13, 14,000 feet in the cabin. And we went through a 14,000 foot mountain pass between Taloqan and Kabul. That was the last time we tried that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were a little dizzy when you landed."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.663402263821567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a really nice plane. That was that was the easiest travel in all of Afghanistan was on the embassy plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did they actually come to your site and medevac you from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, I was traveling I was in the northwest area very shortly after that happened. Mazar had a was a larger city and had an airport that. Embassy had flown to before one strange place for them to go at that time. I tried flying out of Taloqan one time to go back to Kabul and the internal airlines was called back to and they flew Canadian otter's that are designed for, you know, water landing. And there was no water to be landed on. I mean, they didn't have to. Interesting. But the Canadians used them in the central region of. But they're the only the pilot had oxygen. The ceiling was like 13, 14,000 feet in the cabin. And we went through a 14,000 foot mountain pass between Taloqan and Kabul. That was the last time we tried that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were a little dizzy when you landed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway, flying. But and then the second year we moved to Kabul and I taught in teachers college and I taught teachers English in preparation to Afghan teachers to teach in high schools. And there had been a coup between the first and second year. And the king's brother-in-law took over, Daoud Khan, and he started playing Soviet and American aid and they started teaching Russian in the room next to me at the teacher's college. And that was first year they were even preparing to teach Russian. And that was in 1974. And the Soviets invaded in 1975."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there when they invaded?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 28.514891404246185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, I was traveling I was in the northwest area very shortly after that happened. Mazar had a was a larger city and had an airport that. Embassy had flown to before one strange place for them to go at that time. I tried flying out of Taloqan one time to go back to Kabul and the internal airlines was called back to and they flew Canadian otter's that are designed for, you know, water landing. And there was no water to be landed on. I mean, they didn't have to. Interesting. But the Canadians used them in the central region of. But they're the only the pilot had oxygen. The ceiling was like 13, 14,000 feet in the cabin. And we went through a 14,000 foot mountain pass between Taloqan and Kabul. That was the last time we tried that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were a little dizzy when you landed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway, flying. But and then the second year we moved to Kabul and I taught in teachers college and I taught teachers English in preparation to Afghan teachers to teach in high schools. And there had been a coup between the first and second year. And the king's brother-in-law took over, Daoud Khan, and he started playing Soviet and American aid and they started teaching Russian in the room next to me at the teacher's college. And that was first year they were even preparing to teach Russian. And that was in 1974. And the Soviets invaded in 1975."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there when they invaded?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you left just recently."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 25.450483215118748, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you left just recently."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We saw the volunteers that were in country in ‘74 saw troop carrier, not troop carriers, but equipment carriers that the Soviets started prepositioning military hardware as early as ’74. And they started hand selecting potential leaders from the university and they started fomenting communists kind of agitation between ‘74 and ‘79 when they invaded, you know, internal agitation. They drained the intelligentsia, their children. They started bringing them to Soviet Union. Principal's son was one that when he came back from the Soviet Union. I was in school that year and he was telling all the other teachers how great it was. And the Soviet Union, I have to buy anything. You just went to the store and they gave you the clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it was a five year plan and they carried it out and failed miserably in the end. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever feel unsafe while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.056092461243054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We saw the volunteers that were in country in ‘74 saw troop carrier, not troop carriers, but equipment carriers that the Soviets started prepositioning military hardware as early as ’74. And they started hand selecting potential leaders from the university and they started fomenting communists kind of agitation between ‘74 and ‘79 when they invaded, you know, internal agitation. They drained the intelligentsia, their children. They started bringing them to Soviet Union. Principal's son was one that when he came back from the Soviet Union. I was in school that year and he was telling all the other teachers how great it was. And the Soviet Union, I have to buy anything. You just went to the store and they gave you the clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it was a five year plan and they carried it out and failed miserably in the end. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever feel unsafe while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were no the Russians weren't threatening to the Americans that were there at all. Oh, no. I mean, it was the Russians were threatened by being there. The Russian teacher was brought from a walled embassy compound that they couldn't leave by bus to the school, dropped off, picked up at practically at the classroom. And we took the city bus and rode our bicycle back and forth to the school and Taloqan and lived in a house with no guard. Or they had a wall around the compound. But all the houses had walls around the compound. I mean,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were accepted in your community. How do you how do you think they perceived you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 28.951213845825617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it was a five year plan and they carried it out and failed miserably in the end. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever feel unsafe while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were no the Russians weren't threatening to the Americans that were there at all. Oh, no. I mean, it was the Russians were threatened by being there. The Russian teacher was brought from a walled embassy compound that they couldn't leave by bus to the school, dropped off, picked up at practically at the classroom. And we took the city bus and rode our bicycle back and forth to the school and Taloqan and lived in a house with no guard. Or they had a wall around the compound. But all the houses had walls around the compound. I mean,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were accepted in your community. How do you how do you think they perceived you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And as teachers, we were honored, you know, and they considered us a guest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. The teachers were respected there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.279126495361794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were no the Russians weren't threatening to the Americans that were there at all. Oh, no. I mean, it was the Russians were threatened by being there. The Russian teacher was brought from a walled embassy compound that they couldn't leave by bus to the school, dropped off, picked up at practically at the classroom. And we took the city bus and rode our bicycle back and forth to the school and Taloqan and lived in a house with no guard. Or they had a wall around the compound. But all the houses had walls around the compound. I mean,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were accepted in your community. How do you how do you think they perceived you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And as teachers, we were honored, you know, and they considered us a guest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. The teachers were respected there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was very different and the teaching student relationship subsequent we I got involved in 2004 and hosting and finding host families for YES Afghanistan exchange students, high school students. And the American council's was contracted by the State Department to do that. And a former Afghan Peace Corps volunteer was a desk officer. And we heard from Randy Biggers, who was one of our friends from Peace Corps days, that they were starting a program for high school kids in Afghanistan. And so few of us signed up. And the reason I went to that story is one of the students. They had an essay contest and they picked out the best essays from among the students while they were in the USA that year. And there's one young woman, high school junior, Shafiqa was her name, wrote an essay about education in Afghanistan and the United States. And her opening paragraph was in the United States. The teachers care and the students in Afghanistan, the students care and the teachers know. And in Afghanistan for giving the teachers was that they were paid nothing. There was no possible way a teacher could live on a teacher's salary, and it was just impossible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's horrible. And so that had changed since you were there in the ‘70s, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 25.865696105957547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And as teachers, we were honored, you know, and they considered us a guest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. The teachers were respected there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was very different and the teaching student relationship subsequent we I got involved in 2004 and hosting and finding host families for YES Afghanistan exchange students, high school students. And the American council's was contracted by the State Department to do that. And a former Afghan Peace Corps volunteer was a desk officer. And we heard from Randy Biggers, who was one of our friends from Peace Corps days, that they were starting a program for high school kids in Afghanistan. And so few of us signed up. And the reason I went to that story is one of the students. They had an essay contest and they picked out the best essays from among the students while they were in the USA that year. And there's one young woman, high school junior, Shafiqa was her name, wrote an essay about education in Afghanistan and the United States. And her opening paragraph was in the United States. The teachers care and the students in Afghanistan, the students care and the teachers know. And in Afghanistan for giving the teachers was that they were paid nothing. There was no possible way a teacher could live on a teacher's salary, and it was just impossible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's horrible. And so that had changed since you were there in the ‘70s, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It has changed now not much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, no. I mean, even in the ‘70s, they weren't able to live on their pay? DOUGHERTY. No.\n\nWow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 25.760118649330302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It has changed now not much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, no. I mean, even in the ‘70s, they weren't able to live on their pay? DOUGHERTY. No.\n\nWow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Usually a teacher for one thing, Afghan culture is not, not a, it's a family oriented culture and everybody pulls resources, OK? And so teachers were far more educated families and generally there might be several brothers that shared a family compound. They might have had separate, you know, living arrangements within a compound. But the women shared the housework and the men shared the pooled their resources income. Often they had land and they had people that farm their land for them. They got income from other sources, some teachers tutored on the side, and that's how they supported their families. And I mean, it was just it was a whole mixed bag of if you were educated and other families knew the value of what you had, they would pay you for that for their children. They would tutor the tutor, their children after school and that kind of thing.\n\nBut to go to school was not universal, certainly 9th to 12th grade. And girls in Taloqan, they only went to 10th grade. So, I mean, the school just had that many years. I'm in Kabul. My then wife not now taught in the only high school in Afghanistan that had married girls and I mean that because they were very young. They probably married when they were 15 or 16 and they were the wives of high level ministers or wealthy men in Kabul. And they wanted their wives to be educated, at least through high school. And so if the girl got married, she had to quit school and most and almost all of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unless she married a."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A wealthy person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A wealthy person and needed to have an educated wife. Yeah, interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.938418085592964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A wealthy person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A wealthy person and needed to have an educated wife. Yeah, interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was. And there girl, the demand for girls today I chaperon the first group of Yes exchange students when they went home and met their families and the student that had lived with us that year. Her mother was the headmistress of a girls school in Kabul. And I went to the school. I was it had been designed for about 2,000 students and they had 10,000 students at a high school. So the demand for education was there. And they had UNICEF tents out on the on the grounds all around the school. Classes were being held in tents. They had three shifts. So they had an early day shift that got out of school before noon. They had another one. It started and finished in the early afternoon. And then they had a third shift that went into the evening. And they didn't really have qualified teachers for the girls school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why is that? Because it was women teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they had men, teachers at the girls school, too. But there, there were in 2004, 2005 there just the educated people that had the means to leave the country, left the country, got it. In general, people were still coming back from refugee camps out of Pakistan, primarily. And the population of Kabul swelled from, you know, during the Taliban. Maybe less than a million, something probably 500,000 when I was there in the ‘70s to three and a half, four million now. And it's, and they didn't have the infrastructure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just going to ask you, what was the infrastructure like there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.91162726616415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they had men, teachers at the girls school, too. But there, there were in 2004, 2005 there just the educated people that had the means to leave the country, left the country, got it. In general, people were still coming back from refugee camps out of Pakistan, primarily. And the population of Kabul swelled from, you know, during the Taliban. Maybe less than a million, something probably 500,000 when I was there in the ‘70s to three and a half, four million now. And it's, and they didn't have the infrastructure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just going to ask you, what was the infrastructure like there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just in the water was there was cholera at the school. Oh you know, I mean so it was and people were living in tents on the on the hillsides around and, you know, using out houses and facilities like that. And water leached and they used the trash heaps and burned plastic and whatever they could find that burned hot to cook and heat their heat, their homes. And so the and it was 7000 feet plus or so. It's a, it's a city with like Denver, Colorado, in terms of high altitude than air mountains surrounding it. Yeah. And it's a glacial plateau. So it's on a flat area within a mountain range. And so it's it was a mess. I came home very, very frustrated after spending a couple of weeks with my students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was in 2000?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In 2005."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were frustrated there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.90180807351572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just in the water was there was cholera at the school. Oh you know, I mean so it was and people were living in tents on the on the hillsides around and, you know, using out houses and facilities like that. And water leached and they used the trash heaps and burned plastic and whatever they could find that burned hot to cook and heat their heat, their homes. And so the and it was 7000 feet plus or so. It's a, it's a city with like Denver, Colorado, in terms of high altitude than air mountains surrounding it. Yeah. And it's a glacial plateau. So it's on a flat area within a mountain range. And so it's it was a mess. I came home very, very frustrated after spending a couple of weeks with my students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was in 2000?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In 2005."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were frustrated there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was frustrated by just the lack of any kind of planning on our part. The U.S., because we were essentially administering the country then after from 2002 when we got total control of the country right through 2005. But we were mostly focused on short term military, you know, rooting out al-Qaida and the Taliban. And so, anyway, it was it's been a long. It's turned around some for me because I've got good friends and lots of Afghan American friends and lots of students who went on to graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's awesome. That's great. So and you probably would never done this in the Peace Corps in the ‘70s there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.335342303906355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In 2005."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were frustrated there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was frustrated by just the lack of any kind of planning on our part. The U.S., because we were essentially administering the country then after from 2002 when we got total control of the country right through 2005. But we were mostly focused on short term military, you know, rooting out al-Qaida and the Taliban. And so, anyway, it was it's been a long. It's turned around some for me because I've got good friends and lots of Afghan American friends and lots of students who went on to graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's awesome. That's great. So and you probably would never done this in the Peace Corps in the ‘70s there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just one real quick one. The principal of the school I taught at Interlaken in 1973 had a large family and we went to a party at his home and I met his two daughters and the younger daughter was 18. And the older daughter, I'm not sure how old she was. The older daughter came to the U.S. after the Soviet invasion and migrated to Fremont, California. Little Kabul. Berkeley. And the younger daughter and I, during those years when the Soviets invaded, I thought I had lost track of all my friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. In the 1990s, I put pictures up on a website and a girl from Freema wrote me and said, who are you? You have a picture of my mother and my grandfather and my aunts and uncles. And so I wrote back and we shared. And not long after that, I heard from a Russian soldier and he says Afghanistan was different when you were there. It just was in the ‘90s. And here's my website. So I looked at it and it was soldiers.\n\nAnd wow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.772027535686858, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just one real quick one. The principal of the school I taught at Interlaken in 1973 had a large family and we went to a party at his home and I met his two daughters and the younger daughter was 18. And the older daughter, I'm not sure how old she was. The older daughter came to the U.S. after the Soviet invasion and migrated to Fremont, California. Little Kabul. Berkeley. And the younger daughter and I, during those years when the Soviets invaded, I thought I had lost track of all my friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. In the 1990s, I put pictures up on a website and a girl from Freema wrote me and said, who are you? You have a picture of my mother and my grandfather and my aunts and uncles. And so I wrote back and we shared. And not long after that, I heard from a Russian soldier and he says Afghanistan was different when you were there. It just was in the ‘90s. And here's my website. So I looked at it and it was soldiers.\n\nAnd wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's a story in the opening page of his website said, if you should find yourself on Afghanistan's plane and the women come out to pick up the remains, then roll to your rifle and blow out your brains and go to your God like a soldier. That's Rudyard Kipling. And this Russian soldier was quoting Kipling. Anyway, Endo's end of story, isn't there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t have to end the story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The 18 year old daughter of my principal in Telecom 1973, I heard from her niece and in Fremont, would you meet my aunt? And she's coming to Indiana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming to Indiana? Wow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.968919484096508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's a story in the opening page of his website said, if you should find yourself on Afghanistan's plane and the women come out to pick up the remains, then roll to your rifle and blow out your brains and go to your God like a soldier. That's Rudyard Kipling. And this Russian soldier was quoting Kipling. Anyway, Endo's end of story, isn't there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t have to end the story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The 18 year old daughter of my principal in Telecom 1973, I heard from her niece and in Fremont, would you meet my aunt? And she's coming to Indiana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming to Indiana? Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she showed up with her five children in tow. And the oldest was like maybe twenty, eight, nineteen, twenty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you remember her?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.541875906291985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she showed up with her five children in tow. And the oldest was like maybe twenty, eight, nineteen, twenty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you remember her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m Uncle Terry to them all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they've all finished college and they're all just and other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did she move to Indiana or was she just visiting?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.046528784768872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m Uncle Terry to them all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they've all finished college and they're all just and other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did she move to Indiana or was she just visiting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She can't know. She came as a refugee from the refugee placement programs that you know there's an executive there and I had been working with her to help refugees kind of acclimate to the culture. And sure, that would. So the city had at that point, a number of Afghan refugee families and her husband's family had several of their relatives in the city. And they came to Fort Wayne because one of the younger brothers of her husband was a medical doctor who was practicing family medicine in Fort Wayne, Indiana. So, you know, and he encouraged his family to come, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A wonderful small world."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.71836531640986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they've all finished college and they're all just and other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did she move to Indiana or was she just visiting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She can't know. She came as a refugee from the refugee placement programs that you know there's an executive there and I had been working with her to help refugees kind of acclimate to the culture. And sure, that would. So the city had at that point, a number of Afghan refugee families and her husband's family had several of their relatives in the city. And they came to Fort Wayne because one of the younger brothers of her husband was a medical doctor who was practicing family medicine in Fort Wayne, Indiana. So, you know, and he encouraged his family to come, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A wonderful small world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they brought his mother, her mother-in-law. So anyway, it's, and that was the wonderful world story that I really wanted to tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is fabulous, you know?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.57596146267762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She can't know. She came as a refugee from the refugee placement programs that you know there's an executive there and I had been working with her to help refugees kind of acclimate to the culture. And sure, that would. So the city had at that point, a number of Afghan refugee families and her husband's family had several of their relatives in the city. And they came to Fort Wayne because one of the younger brothers of her husband was a medical doctor who was practicing family medicine in Fort Wayne, Indiana. So, you know, and he encouraged his family to come, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A wonderful small world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they brought his mother, her mother-in-law. So anyway, it's, and that was the wonderful world story that I really wanted to tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is fabulous, you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so you never know when you're in the Peace Corps how this relationship and it really wasn't a relationship. I met her. I worked for her father. And it was it was awesome, though, that well, actually, my wife at the time we made donuts and this young woman liked to cook and so we showed her how to make donuts, you know, American style. Dip them in fat, in oil that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yep, fry those delicious balls of yummy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 20.63995718075291, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they brought his mother, her mother-in-law. So anyway, it's, and that was the wonderful world story that I really wanted to tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is fabulous, you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so you never know when you're in the Peace Corps how this relationship and it really wasn't a relationship. I met her. I worked for her father. And it was it was awesome, though, that well, actually, my wife at the time we made donuts and this young woman liked to cook and so we showed her how to make donuts, you know, American style. Dip them in fat, in oil that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yep, fry those delicious balls of yummy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and to this day she still makes donuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, isn't that great. So are they do they still have the tough love program there? Do you believe Teflon not changed it to some of that terminology?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.15550797861434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so you never know when you're in the Peace Corps how this relationship and it really wasn't a relationship. I met her. I worked for her father. And it was it was awesome, though, that well, actually, my wife at the time we made donuts and this young woman liked to cook and so we showed her how to make donuts, you know, American style. Dip them in fat, in oil that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yep, fry those delicious balls of yummy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and to this day she still makes donuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, isn't that great. So are they do they still have the tough love program there? Do you believe Teflon not changed it to some of that terminology?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps left and right. But yeah, they teach English. Extensively and I've been part of the formation of a girls dormitory school boarding school in Kabul. I started that with the former director of the exchange program with American councils when he retired from that program. Yes, 2008. He just rented a big house and started inviting students who were looking for their moving on and their education to live there and work and go to college. And it has become, he died last year, but one of the students is president. I'm on the board still, and it's called Solar School of Leadership Afghanistan. Because so these things and they do teach in English and they look for American volunteers to use Skype and tutor the students. So they're recruiting knowledgeable ESL. And the school is actually taught in English for the most part, held in English, because that's a common language for Afghanistan. And they have students that don't speak a common language between them. Some speak Dari, some speak Pashto."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there's quite a few native languages. And yeah, there's and they don't they don't comprehend each other very well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.313379025475292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's Peace Corps. And frankly, the founder, Ted Achilleas, was his name, the former director of American councils and in Afghanistan was an Army Ranger as a young man. So, I mean, so Peace Corps Army Ranger, his father had been an ambassador and he'd grown up in the embassy circles and stuff. But so he had an international. But yet and but he had a vision of what could be done if Afghans were given the opportunity. And he was an entrepreneur and, you know, he was retired from business entrepreneurship and went to Afghanistan. At the request of, I think the second or the third. Yeah, he was the third Peace Corps director of Afghanistan. He was friends with Lew Mitchell. And Lew asked him if he'd go and check out business opportunities because Lew had had some health issues. And wanted to go. But so he sent Ted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he started the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He started the school after the after he left the program. and I got to know him with the U.S. program. And we just stayed friends and I helped him stateside while he was doing the Afghan work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. So when you first came back in ‘75 to Indiana, did you end up doing more education yourself or did you continue teaching? It sounds like your."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I, I substituted for a few months and I decided that it would kill me to be a middle school teacher in the United States for the rest of my life. And I had had a daughter on the way at the time. I was substituting and I needed a job that paid well. And so I decided to look to how to change careers. And I ended up landing a job with IBM and wonderful. I was an IBM mainframe marketing. And then my daughter was born and she was a Peace Corps child, you know, born nine months and one week after we left, you know, so. And she was also there, a volunteer in ‘98 to 2000 in Kazakhstan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, that's fabulous. Did you have much of a culture shock when you came back to the state?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.348198917194768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He started the school after the after he left the program. and I got to know him with the U.S. program. And we just stayed friends and I helped him stateside while he was doing the Afghan work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. So when you first came back in ‘75 to Indiana, did you end up doing more education yourself or did you continue teaching? It sounds like your."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I, I substituted for a few months and I decided that it would kill me to be a middle school teacher in the United States for the rest of my life. And I had had a daughter on the way at the time. I was substituting and I needed a job that paid well. And so I decided to look to how to change careers. And I ended up landing a job with IBM and wonderful. I was an IBM mainframe marketing. And then my daughter was born and she was a Peace Corps child, you know, born nine months and one week after we left, you know, so. And she was also there, a volunteer in ‘98 to 2000 in Kazakhstan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, that's fabulous. Did you have much of a culture shock when you came back to the state?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, of course. Yeah. Reverse culture shock was actually worse than."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it is."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.94244324132752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I, I substituted for a few months and I decided that it would kill me to be a middle school teacher in the United States for the rest of my life. And I had had a daughter on the way at the time. I was substituting and I needed a job that paid well. And so I decided to look to how to change careers. And I ended up landing a job with IBM and wonderful. I was an IBM mainframe marketing. And then my daughter was born and she was a Peace Corps child, you know, born nine months and one week after we left, you know, so. And she was also there, a volunteer in ‘98 to 2000 in Kazakhstan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, that's fabulous. Did you have much of a culture shock when you came back to the state?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, of course. Yeah. Reverse culture shock was actually worse than."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We expected things to be totally different when we got to Afghanistan. So everything was different. Right. When we came back to the United States, we expected everything to be the way we remembered it and everything was different. Oh, you know, in two years time all kinds of things changed. You know, in 1975, there were lots of things that had changed from 1972. Believe me, there was a lot of change. Vietnam was over. It was on our trip home, Vietnam was done. Tricky Dick was gone. He was he was out of the White House."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it’s all most positive things that changed, though."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.602714712586133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, of course. Yeah. Reverse culture shock was actually worse than."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We expected things to be totally different when we got to Afghanistan. So everything was different. Right. When we came back to the United States, we expected everything to be the way we remembered it and everything was different. Oh, you know, in two years time all kinds of things changed. You know, in 1975, there were lots of things that had changed from 1972. Believe me, there was a lot of change. Vietnam was over. It was on our trip home, Vietnam was done. Tricky Dick was gone. He was he was out of the White House."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it’s all most positive things that changed, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were good things, but that there was a lot of adjustment. Yeah, there was a lot of I couldn't figure out how to open the ketchup bottle because it changed the way you open things. And, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't really have the chance to really deal with this so much because you became a new father right away and a new career. Wow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.003016347317926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We expected things to be totally different when we got to Afghanistan. So everything was different. Right. When we came back to the United States, we expected everything to be the way we remembered it and everything was different. Oh, you know, in two years time all kinds of things changed. You know, in 1975, there were lots of things that had changed from 1972. Believe me, there was a lot of change. Vietnam was over. It was on our trip home, Vietnam was done. Tricky Dick was gone. He was he was out of the White House."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it’s all most positive things that changed, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were good things, but that there was a lot of adjustment. Yeah, there was a lot of I couldn't figure out how to open the ketchup bottle because it changed the way you open things. And, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't really have the chance to really deal with this so much because you became a new father right away and a new career. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But every day you just encounter something new that that's not the way it was, you know, three years ago. And, you know, any and it could be anything from little to something big. And the other thing was talking to friends and family and others, you'd see their eyes glaze over after about 30 seconds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't want to hear about your Afghanistan stories anymore."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.447795941464362, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were good things, but that there was a lot of adjustment. Yeah, there was a lot of I couldn't figure out how to open the ketchup bottle because it changed the way you open things. And, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't really have the chance to really deal with this so much because you became a new father right away and a new career. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But every day you just encounter something new that that's not the way it was, you know, three years ago. And, you know, any and it could be anything from little to something big. And the other thing was talking to friends and family and others, you'd see their eyes glaze over after about 30 seconds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't want to hear about your Afghanistan stories anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Does not compute. No. I mean, it's just like, oh, I can't, I can't even think about why you would do that or why that would be interesting or why, you know, of, you know, stories about outhouses aren't interesting. You know. Well, in the Peace Corps, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're all about outhouses in the Peace Corps. You have running water? Wow. I think our greeting was like, did you have a solid poo? You know, everybody was excited about those things, outhouses."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.941995490515957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But every day you just encounter something new that that's not the way it was, you know, three years ago. And, you know, any and it could be anything from little to something big. And the other thing was talking to friends and family and others, you'd see their eyes glaze over after about 30 seconds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't want to hear about your Afghanistan stories anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Does not compute. No. I mean, it's just like, oh, I can't, I can't even think about why you would do that or why that would be interesting or why, you know, of, you know, stories about outhouses aren't interesting. You know. Well, in the Peace Corps, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're all about outhouses in the Peace Corps. You have running water? Wow. I think our greeting was like, did you have a solid poo? You know, everybody was excited about those things, outhouses."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the doctor and I told him I got giardia. And he said, I've never seen a case of giardia at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back from the States, you had giardia then too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.491106100573286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Does not compute. No. I mean, it's just like, oh, I can't, I can't even think about why you would do that or why that would be interesting or why, you know, of, you know, stories about outhouses aren't interesting. You know. Well, in the Peace Corps, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're all about outhouses in the Peace Corps. You have running water? Wow. I think our greeting was like, did you have a solid poo? You know, everybody was excited about those things, outhouses."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the doctor and I told him I got giardia. And he said, I've never seen a case of giardia at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back from the States, you had giardia then too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's what I mean, I, I had a case charity when I came back. Yeah. Because I'd had a kidney stone. I went to a urologist and I decided, well he's the first doctor I'm see. And I said, I've got I got giardia. And he's I've never seen a case of giardia. And I told him what medication I should be prescribed because we had medicine. Once you've had giardia, you'll never forget having giardia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah. I had giardia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.101229000636985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the doctor and I told him I got giardia. And he said, I've never seen a case of giardia at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back from the States, you had giardia then too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's what I mean, I, I had a case charity when I came back. Yeah. Because I'd had a kidney stone. I went to a urologist and I decided, well he's the first doctor I'm see. And I said, I've got I got giardia. And he's I've never seen a case of giardia. And I told him what medication I should be prescribed because we had medicine. Once you've had giardia, you'll never forget having giardia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah. I had giardia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And rotten eggs. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Well it had been pretty much eliminated in the United States, but because and partly because the geese population, the Canadian geese eliminated and they were almost extinct and then they were protected and they came back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I was going to say there was giardia here in Austin when I first moved here that I got."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.779143334041094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's what I mean, I, I had a case charity when I came back. Yeah. Because I'd had a kidney stone. I went to a urologist and I decided, well he's the first doctor I'm see. And I said, I've got I got giardia. And he's I've never seen a case of giardia. And I told him what medication I should be prescribed because we had medicine. Once you've had giardia, you'll never forget having giardia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah. I had giardia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And rotten eggs. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Well it had been pretty much eliminated in the United States, but because and partly because the geese population, the Canadian geese eliminated and they were almost extinct and then they were protected and they came back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I was going to say there was giardia here in Austin when I first moved here that I got."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And well, when the geese came back"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the geese came back so did giardia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.532381482267882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And rotten eggs. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Well it had been pretty much eliminated in the United States, but because and partly because the geese population, the Canadian geese eliminated and they were almost extinct and then they were protected and they came back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I was going to say there was giardia here in Austin when I first moved here that I got."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And well, when the geese came back"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the geese came back so did giardia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So did the geese poop and the water became contaminated with giardia. I mean. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. How weird that your doctor never seen giardia before, though."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.369312758075424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And well, when the geese came back"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the geese came back so did giardia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So did the geese poop and the water became contaminated with giardia. I mean. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. How weird that your doctor never seen giardia before, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But in 1975, there was I grew it up and I'd never heard of it, you know. You know, it was not a thing. But I could tell you if it was amoebic or vacillarior. Yeah, I knew I knew how to self-diagnose many of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yeah. It's very distinct. And the medicine is painful."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.188125286750472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So did the geese poop and the water became contaminated with giardia. I mean. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. How weird that your doctor never seen giardia before, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But in 1975, there was I grew it up and I'd never heard of it, you know. You know, it was not a thing. But I could tell you if it was amoebic or vacillarior. Yeah, I knew I knew how to self-diagnose many of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yeah. It's very distinct. And the medicine is painful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh medicine. One of the shots at that time on arrival they gave us several shots, first day. And I left and I went into anaplastic shop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no. From which one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.097916985278301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But in 1975, there was I grew it up and I'd never heard of it, you know. You know, it was not a thing. But I could tell you if it was amoebic or vacillarior. Yeah, I knew I knew how to self-diagnose many of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yeah. It's very distinct. And the medicine is painful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh medicine. One of the shots at that time on arrival they gave us several shots, first day. And I left and I went into anaplastic shop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no. From which one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From a rabies vaccine which at that time they used a live rabies virus, you know, and it was cultured on duck egg."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you’re allergic to ducks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.997685539198113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh medicine. One of the shots at that time on arrival they gave us several shots, first day. And I left and I went into anaplastic shop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no. From which one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From a rabies vaccine which at that time they used a live rabies virus, you know, and it was cultured on duck egg."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you’re allergic to ducks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm allergic to duck now. I didn't know that then and now. And so they had to give me adrenaline and Benadryl and the doctor saved my life and it was good and but it"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kidney stone, anaphylactic shock. All these things that we fear when we're in country, you survived."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.552983932442348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From a rabies vaccine which at that time they used a live rabies virus, you know, and it was cultured on duck egg."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you’re allergic to ducks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm allergic to duck now. I didn't know that then and now. And so they had to give me adrenaline and Benadryl and the doctor saved my life and it was good and but it"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kidney stone, anaphylactic shock. All these things that we fear when we're in country, you survived."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but the kidney stone, the reason the doctor medevacked me and he had lots he said there's a higher incidence of young people getting kidney stones here than any, any medical book would ever tell you. And it was because we would get dehydrate and we'd get. But I had a congenital issue that I had had a dozen kidney stones before I ever went. But the U.S. doctors never diagnosed with the cause of it was and when they medevacked me to Beirut American University Hospital, the Lebanese doctor said, well, have they ever done a 24 hour urine test? And I said, they've done just about every test. There was never a 24 hour urine. And so he had me being a model for 24 hours and he said, you've got system area. And I said, well, how do you know? Well, you're output of cystine is higher than any other normal functioning kidney would put out. And over half of all juvenile kidney stones are caused by this scenario. So it's the obvious test. And why didn't the American doctors do it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it could have been a preventable kidney stone? Are you like do they give you medication or something for it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.169982147158164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm allergic to duck now. I didn't know that then and now. And so they had to give me adrenaline and Benadryl and the doctor saved my life and it was good and but it"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kidney stone, anaphylactic shock. All these things that we fear when we're in country, you survived."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but the kidney stone, the reason the doctor medevacked me and he had lots he said there's a higher incidence of young people getting kidney stones here than any, any medical book would ever tell you. And it was because we would get dehydrate and we'd get. But I had a congenital issue that I had had a dozen kidney stones before I ever went. But the U.S. doctors never diagnosed with the cause of it was and when they medevacked me to Beirut American University Hospital, the Lebanese doctor said, well, have they ever done a 24 hour urine test? And I said, they've done just about every test. There was never a 24 hour urine. And so he had me being a model for 24 hours and he said, you've got system area. And I said, well, how do you know? Well, you're output of cystine is higher than any other normal functioning kidney would put out. And over half of all juvenile kidney stones are caused by this scenario. So it's the obvious test. And why didn't the American doctors do it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it could have been a preventable kidney stone? Are you like do they give you medication or something for it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that time, I was taking soda bicarb all the time. Several times a day. And keep your urine alkaline and can't produce a. I stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, there you go. How interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.7444246079535155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but the kidney stone, the reason the doctor medevacked me and he had lots he said there's a higher incidence of young people getting kidney stones here than any, any medical book would ever tell you. And it was because we would get dehydrate and we'd get. But I had a congenital issue that I had had a dozen kidney stones before I ever went. But the U.S. doctors never diagnosed with the cause of it was and when they medevacked me to Beirut American University Hospital, the Lebanese doctor said, well, have they ever done a 24 hour urine test? And I said, they've done just about every test. There was never a 24 hour urine. And so he had me being a model for 24 hours and he said, you've got system area. And I said, well, how do you know? Well, you're output of cystine is higher than any other normal functioning kidney would put out. And over half of all juvenile kidney stones are caused by this scenario. So it's the obvious test. And why didn't the American doctors do it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it could have been a preventable kidney stone? Are you like do they give you medication or something for it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that time, I was taking soda bicarb all the time. Several times a day. And keep your urine alkaline and can't produce a. I stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, there you go. How interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are other medications now, but a number for a number of years I never had another kidney stone because I have a nice doctor in Beirut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you, Beirut. We thought we had great medical care. That's really interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.382694008837239, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that time, I was taking soda bicarb all the time. Several times a day. And keep your urine alkaline and can't produce a. I stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, there you go. How interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are other medications now, but a number for a number of years I never had another kidney stone because I have a nice doctor in Beirut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you, Beirut. We thought we had great medical care. That's really interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Peace Corps is fun and the bad stories are our lifetime memories. But you also have friendships, lifetime friendships and relationships that reconnect with you time and again over your lifetime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah, yours came full circle. Yours came back and forth a few times. That's amazing. I am curious, what did you all eat while you were in the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.091882232041377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are other medications now, but a number for a number of years I never had another kidney stone because I have a nice doctor in Beirut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you, Beirut. We thought we had great medical care. That's really interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Peace Corps is fun and the bad stories are our lifetime memories. But you also have friendships, lifetime friendships and relationships that reconnect with you time and again over your lifetime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah, yours came full circle. Yours came back and forth a few times. That's amazing. I am curious, what did you all eat while you were in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Afghan food. It was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it delicious and wonderful?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.879869146712641, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Peace Corps is fun and the bad stories are our lifetime memories. But you also have friendships, lifetime friendships and relationships that reconnect with you time and again over your lifetime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah, yours came full circle. Yours came back and forth a few times. That's amazing. I am curious, what did you all eat while you were in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Afghan food. It was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it delicious and wonderful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kabobs and pulau and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you all cook yourself or did the country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.755410163014046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Afghan food. It was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it delicious and wonderful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kabobs and pulau and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you all cook yourself or did the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "While in training, they had a cook assigned to each X number of you know, we had apartments during training. And there were two of the married couples. We had another couple in one apartment. We had a cook. And he actually saved my life when I went into shock, you know, because he was able to speak English and call the doctor for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The chef? The chef saved your life?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.57458044816549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "While in training, they had a cook assigned to each X number of you know, we had apartments during training. And there were two of the married couples. We had another couple in one apartment. We had a cook. And he actually saved my life when I went into shock, you know, because he was able to speak English and call the doctor for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The chef? The chef saved your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Azalls his name. And he did. He saved my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, yeah, he cooked for us in training. And then when we went to Taloqan, we cooked for ourselves and made donuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, exactly. You made the donuts."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.305089386850544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Azalls his name. And he did. He saved my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, yeah, he cooked for us in training. And then when we went to Taloqan, we cooked for ourselves and made donuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, exactly. You made the donuts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But you could buy naan. The naan boy would come around and have a basket of hot naan on his head. Nine a.m. in the morning and go out and pick up a fresh hot loaf of naan from a boy and a street for two Afghanis, which was like a nickel and take it in and drink it with your Nescafe and maybe fry up an egg. And I'd ride my bicycle to the bazaar and buy some meat from the butcher and take it back an pressure-cooker and leave it closed in the pressure cooker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have electricity then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.327068109816405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had no clue. And, uh, and so then eventually we got we my wife had them dig a separate outhouse for us. And then she drew a picture of what a toilet looked like. I mean, a wooden box with a lid. And she drew the picture to scale full size. And so I had to take it to the carpenter shops and there was a row of carpenters on the street and I showed him a picture and he said, what's this? So I explained and I did what you're doing. And he took it to the next carpenter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they all got a big giggle out of it probably. They want us to make a wooden throne for them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a I had a closing lid. And so the lid that came down on top of the other was just like what you have here, right, hinge? And we had we had a chicken we call Chicken Little. It was a little laying hen. And it was great because she'd go in there and it was warm. And every morning when I'd go out there to use the outhouse, there'd be enough pressure so that it was a well planned multipurpose it was a well planned out house with a good lid. That's hysterical. So, I mean, there's there are many, many stories like that that are fun to think about. And they're memories that are warm and smelly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes it's all part of the Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I take it Afghanistan isn't the only place where you experience such."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think so. But I have to admit that I don't know anything about these dirt clouds. I really don't."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.918964566462672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a I had a closing lid. And so the lid that came down on top of the other was just like what you have here, right, hinge? And we had we had a chicken we call Chicken Little. It was a little laying hen. And it was great because she'd go in there and it was warm. And every morning when I'd go out there to use the outhouse, there'd be enough pressure so that it was a well planned multipurpose it was a well planned out house with a good lid. That's hysterical. So, I mean, there's there are many, many stories like that that are fun to think about. And they're memories that are warm and smelly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes it's all part of the Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I take it Afghanistan isn't the only place where you experience such."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think so. But I have to admit that I don't know anything about these dirt clouds. I really don't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't want to know any more than I know. They seem to want them there. But I never really asked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it toilet paper? I don’t know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.465516184958525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I take it Afghanistan isn't the only place where you experience such."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think so. But I have to admit that I don't know anything about these dirt clouds. I really don't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't want to know any more than I know. They seem to want them there. But I never really asked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it toilet paper? I don’t know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually. Actually what they call the outhouse is hokandos and hok means dust or dirt. Andos is to throw. So it's a place you throw dirt and so that's why the dirt clouds are there. I'm sure"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They threw them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.9616846499539164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't want to know any more than I know. They seem to want them there. But I never really asked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it toilet paper? I don’t know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually. Actually what they call the outhouse is hokandos and hok means dust or dirt. Andos is to throw. So it's a place you throw dirt and so that's why the dirt clouds are there. I'm sure"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They threw them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But one of my exchange students came and I said, would you like to go get some Haagen-Dazs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, exactly. It sounds so close to Haagen-Dazs."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.51298294439324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually. Actually what they call the outhouse is hokandos and hok means dust or dirt. Andos is to throw. So it's a place you throw dirt and so that's why the dirt clouds are there. I'm sure"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They threw them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But one of my exchange students came and I said, would you like to go get some Haagen-Dazs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, exactly. It sounds so close to Haagen-Dazs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s go get some Haagen-Dazs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s delicious, honest."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.125536604881378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But one of my exchange students came and I said, would you like to go get some Haagen-Dazs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, exactly. It sounds so close to Haagen-Dazs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s go get some Haagen-Dazs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s delicious, honest."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s the best you ever ate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they get the humor?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.806151783201531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s go get some Haagen-Dazs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s delicious, honest."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s the best you ever ate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they get the humor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's a true story, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they get the humor, did they get a big kick out of it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.562390870223923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s the best you ever ate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they get the humor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's a true story, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they get the humor, did they get a big kick out of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once they knew what Haagen-Dazs was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is funny because exactly when you said the name of the latrine, you know, the outhouse, I was thinking the same thing. Ice cream sounds so close to ice cream."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.336285024967806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once they knew what Haagen-Dazs was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is funny because exactly when you said the name of the latrine, you know, the outhouse, I was thinking the same thing. Ice cream sounds so close to ice cream."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hok-andos, to throw the dirt. And so I threw those dirt clods into it and it came out ice cream,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Magical."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rocky road"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For certain. Goodness, that is so funny."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.373650027742006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hok-andos, to throw the dirt. And so I threw those dirt clods into it and it came out ice cream,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Magical."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rocky road"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For certain. Goodness, that is so funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, so what would you say to somebody who was thinking of doing the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 11.526277808602229, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rocky road"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For certain. Goodness, that is so funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, so what would you say to somebody who was thinking of doing the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do it. Actually be, be sure that one that you're, you know, capable of adapting, uh, and accepting and other cultures, ways of doing things. But beyond that you have to. We go with an attitude of learning how that culture's value system and approach to things might be the appropriate one and not go with predefined ideas that the American solution is the only solution to problems. And the biggest clash we had with Afghans was a sense of time. Yeah, you know, Afghan time is a joke. And with Afghans, you know, we're doing this on Afghan time. And, you know, you come in,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does that mean you're going to be about a half an hour behind or more?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.14113331064409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They generally. Yeah. And I didn't, I don't recall a teacher having multiple wives, actually, or any of the school principals or administrators that I worked with. But the governor of the province or a wealthy landowner or a mullah or so, you know, people of influence and wealth and power might have and that's one of the rules, is you don't you can't have more than one if you can't afford it. So I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's interesting. And it should be kind of a rule with children, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And another guideline is that, you know, if your brother dies, someone needs to take care of your brother's wife. So things are taking a second wife who's a widow or something, which is a form of social welfare that ties into the Islamic code, too. So that's another thing is respecting other people's religions?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most definitely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And recognizing that there's probably values in that religion that you aren't aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you first went there, was that all very much eye opening? Just the"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.823481456271211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And another guideline is that, you know, if your brother dies, someone needs to take care of your brother's wife. So things are taking a second wife who's a widow or something, which is a form of social welfare that ties into the Islamic code, too. So that's another thing is respecting other people's religions?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most definitely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And recognizing that there's probably values in that religion that you aren't aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you first went there, was that all very much eye opening? Just the"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was aware of Islamic culture to some extent and teachings. But actually that was one of the reasons I was fascinated when I was offered Afghanistan was that's what I wanted to learn about. I wanted and I wanted to see how other, other religious traditions, you know, affected life and life and culture and family and the strength of the Afghan family and the knowledge of your role in your family was the definition of you and an Afghan cultural sense versus the rugged individual and separate ness that we instill in our individualism here in the U.S. So there was a there's a vast difference, really, in how children are raised. And there's some things that Afghan families have. And our guests, exchange students have learned from their experience with American families. But there are things that we have to learn from, from their shared family responsibilities and respect for people, elders. And, you know, some of the relationships within the family are much stronger in Afghanistan than they are here. And so, I mean, you observe, if you go with the idea and observe something different and value the differences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, embrace them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.581646062523568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And recognizing that there's probably values in that religion that you aren't aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you first went there, was that all very much eye opening? Just the"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was aware of Islamic culture to some extent and teachings. But actually that was one of the reasons I was fascinated when I was offered Afghanistan was that's what I wanted to learn about. I wanted and I wanted to see how other, other religious traditions, you know, affected life and life and culture and family and the strength of the Afghan family and the knowledge of your role in your family was the definition of you and an Afghan cultural sense versus the rugged individual and separate ness that we instill in our individualism here in the U.S. So there was a there's a vast difference, really, in how children are raised. And there's some things that Afghan families have. And our guests, exchange students have learned from their experience with American families. But there are things that we have to learn from, from their shared family responsibilities and respect for people, elders. And, you know, some of the relationships within the family are much stronger in Afghanistan than they are here. And so, I mean, you observe, if you go with the idea and observe something different and value the differences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, embrace them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And look and look at where those differences may have strengths that I didn't anticipate. That's where the surprises came in. Some of the things that I didn't expect would be valuable were great, you know, or some of the things that I thought were good and proper, maybe weren't so good and proper. I mean, at all times. I mean, in all cases, so and so you do a lot of. Cultural adaptation and comparison, and that's one of the things for prospective Peace Corps volunteers, right? Yeah, go into it with, with those ideas in mind. And it can be fun. It could be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's so much fun. Did you experience a lot of the loneliness, though? I mean, I've already asked you that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.424051180581742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was aware of Islamic culture to some extent and teachings. But actually that was one of the reasons I was fascinated when I was offered Afghanistan was that's what I wanted to learn about. I wanted and I wanted to see how other, other religious traditions, you know, affected life and life and culture and family and the strength of the Afghan family and the knowledge of your role in your family was the definition of you and an Afghan cultural sense versus the rugged individual and separate ness that we instill in our individualism here in the U.S. So there was a there's a vast difference, really, in how children are raised. And there's some things that Afghan families have. And our guests, exchange students have learned from their experience with American families. But there are things that we have to learn from, from their shared family responsibilities and respect for people, elders. And, you know, some of the relationships within the family are much stronger in Afghanistan than they are here. And so, I mean, you observe, if you go with the idea and observe something different and value the differences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, embrace them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And look and look at where those differences may have strengths that I didn't anticipate. That's where the surprises came in. Some of the things that I didn't expect would be valuable were great, you know, or some of the things that I thought were good and proper, maybe weren't so good and proper. I mean, at all times. I mean, in all cases, so and so you do a lot of. Cultural adaptation and comparison, and that's one of the things for prospective Peace Corps volunteers, right? Yeah, go into it with, with those ideas in mind. And it can be fun. It could be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's so much fun. Did you experience a lot of the loneliness, though? I mean, I've already asked you that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because there were a lot of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You with your wife, so that probably helped a little bit."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.360056867313046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And look and look at where those differences may have strengths that I didn't anticipate. That's where the surprises came in. Some of the things that I didn't expect would be valuable were great, you know, or some of the things that I thought were good and proper, maybe weren't so good and proper. I mean, at all times. I mean, in all cases, so and so you do a lot of. Cultural adaptation and comparison, and that's one of the things for prospective Peace Corps volunteers, right? Yeah, go into it with, with those ideas in mind. And it can be fun. It could be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's so much fun. Did you experience a lot of the loneliness, though? I mean, I've already asked you that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because there were a lot of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You with your wife, so that probably helped a little bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, two of us were there together and we shared, you know, I go shopping and we cook together and we had electricity at night so we could plug in our radio and we could use batteries on a battery operated shortwave, cassette tapes and shortwave BBC, an American"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Voice of America. Yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.288952074792274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because there were a lot of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You with your wife, so that probably helped a little bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, two of us were there together and we shared, you know, I go shopping and we cook together and we had electricity at night so we could plug in our radio and we could use batteries on a battery operated shortwave, cassette tapes and shortwave BBC, an American"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Voice of America. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And listen to tapes that I occasionally get sent, you know. Carole King tapes and things like that, you know that we're the current"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some reminders of home."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.321057860880304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, two of us were there together and we shared, you know, I go shopping and we cook together and we had electricity at night so we could plug in our radio and we could use batteries on a battery operated shortwave, cassette tapes and shortwave BBC, an American"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Voice of America. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And listen to tapes that I occasionally get sent, you know. Carole King tapes and things like that, you know that we're the current"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some reminders of home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that friends would send things from home that way, or I got a lot of reading done. My wife had been an elementary school bachelors degree, and she took with her an anthology of children's literature and so, you know, I got into some of the children's literature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will you read anything that you can put your hands on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.24561984542256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And listen to tapes that I occasionally get sent, you know. Carole King tapes and things like that, you know that we're the current"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some reminders of home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that friends would send things from home that way, or I got a lot of reading done. My wife had been an elementary school bachelors degree, and she took with her an anthology of children's literature and so, you know, I got into some of the children's literature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will you read anything that you can put your hands on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Beware the JubJub bird and shun the frumious Bandersnatch. You know, sitting there looking for something to occupy your mind in a long, dark evening with no lights or. And so you find other ways to entertain yourself. I mean my daughter, who is Peace Corps in 98, the school she worked at had email. They didn’t have full time"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They already had email? Wow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.050688717136177, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that friends would send things from home that way, or I got a lot of reading done. My wife had been an elementary school bachelors degree, and she took with her an anthology of children's literature and so, you know, I got into some of the children's literature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will you read anything that you can put your hands on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Beware the JubJub bird and shun the frumious Bandersnatch. You know, sitting there looking for something to occupy your mind in a long, dark evening with no lights or. And so you find other ways to entertain yourself. I mean my daughter, who is Peace Corps in 98, the school she worked at had email. They didn’t have full time"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They already had email? Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they didn't have full time internet but she could do email 1998-‘99 at the school so we could exchange messages that way. And, you know, to hear from somebody in two weeks was pretty good when I was in Afghanistan. Oh yeah. Know it's usually a month turn around at least. And we went to the post office to pick up mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. Mail was very exciting when you were a Peace Corps Volunteer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.945209685706864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Beware the JubJub bird and shun the frumious Bandersnatch. You know, sitting there looking for something to occupy your mind in a long, dark evening with no lights or. And so you find other ways to entertain yourself. I mean my daughter, who is Peace Corps in 98, the school she worked at had email. They didn’t have full time"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They already had email? Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they didn't have full time internet but she could do email 1998-‘99 at the school so we could exchange messages that way. And, you know, to hear from somebody in two weeks was pretty good when I was in Afghanistan. Oh yeah. Know it's usually a month turn around at least. And we went to the post office to pick up mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. Mail was very exciting when you were a Peace Corps Volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was no, no international telephone service unless we went to the Peace Corps office or the embassy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was about a day away."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.939121873007627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they didn't have full time internet but she could do email 1998-‘99 at the school so we could exchange messages that way. And, you know, to hear from somebody in two weeks was pretty good when I was in Afghanistan. Oh yeah. Know it's usually a month turn around at least. And we went to the post office to pick up mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. Mail was very exciting when you were a Peace Corps Volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was no, no international telephone service unless we went to the Peace Corps office or the embassy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was about a day away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And even to call Kabul, like in the case of having an emergency kidney stone, you had to go to the telephone telegraph office and the telephone operator had an old pull the plug switchboard and there were only like a dozen phones in town. And so when I picked up, he'd plug them in. But if you wanted to call somebody in Kabul, they had an old rotary dial system which was current here to. Right. And, uh, but the guy would plug it into the Kabul port and turn the crank to generate the electricity and shout into the mouthpiece, Kabul, Kabul. And then he'd get them on the phone and he'd tell them what number you wanted to talk to. And the person answered and they'd put you through to the person like the doctor. The only time we ever used it was called the doctor. So, yeah, that was the that was the high tech start."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. And then your daughter was able to send emails."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.043468747786251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was no, no international telephone service unless we went to the Peace Corps office or the embassy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was about a day away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And even to call Kabul, like in the case of having an emergency kidney stone, you had to go to the telephone telegraph office and the telephone operator had an old pull the plug switchboard and there were only like a dozen phones in town. And so when I picked up, he'd plug them in. But if you wanted to call somebody in Kabul, they had an old rotary dial system which was current here to. Right. And, uh, but the guy would plug it into the Kabul port and turn the crank to generate the electricity and shout into the mouthpiece, Kabul, Kabul. And then he'd get them on the phone and he'd tell them what number you wanted to talk to. And the person answered and they'd put you through to the person like the doctor. The only time we ever used it was called the doctor. So, yeah, that was the that was the high tech start."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. And then your daughter was able to send emails."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was able to send email and there what would have been they had telephones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She had a cell phone for the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.270520830873613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And even to call Kabul, like in the case of having an emergency kidney stone, you had to go to the telephone telegraph office and the telephone operator had an old pull the plug switchboard and there were only like a dozen phones in town. And so when I picked up, he'd plug them in. But if you wanted to call somebody in Kabul, they had an old rotary dial system which was current here to. Right. And, uh, but the guy would plug it into the Kabul port and turn the crank to generate the electricity and shout into the mouthpiece, Kabul, Kabul. And then he'd get them on the phone and he'd tell them what number you wanted to talk to. And the person answered and they'd put you through to the person like the doctor. The only time we ever used it was called the doctor. So, yeah, that was the that was the high tech start."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. And then your daughter was able to send emails."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was able to send email and there what would have been they had telephones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She had a cell phone for the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No I said telephone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or telephone, got it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.522800923192904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was able to send email and there what would have been they had telephones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She had a cell phone for the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No I said telephone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or telephone, got it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The family in Kazakhstan had a telephone and wherever she lived. And so we emailed and prearrange of time. And I could call her and that's, you know, so you could, you could have voice conversations at least and quick conversations. And you could arrange for things. And, you know, so in ‘98, 2000, things had and but Kazakhstan was a different country. Soviet infrastructure in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's amazing that we were there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.803112136881003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No I said telephone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or telephone, got it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The family in Kazakhstan had a telephone and wherever she lived. And so we emailed and prearrange of time. And I could call her and that's, you know, so you could, you could have voice conversations at least and quick conversations. And you could arrange for things. And, you know, so in ‘98, 2000, things had and but Kazakhstan was a different country. Soviet infrastructure in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's amazing that we were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She taught at a science hospital or a high school in teaching environmental science. And because of that, it was a technology based school. So, you know, I doubt that all the high schools had the Internet in Kazakhstan. And, you know, probably that one, you know, I don't know about a previous volunteer in Paladar. I think it helped set up that particular service at high school had when she got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty wonderful that your daughter also did Peace Corps. I’m sure you inspired her."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.225680152090003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The family in Kazakhstan had a telephone and wherever she lived. And so we emailed and prearrange of time. And I could call her and that's, you know, so you could, you could have voice conversations at least and quick conversations. And you could arrange for things. And, you know, so in ‘98, 2000, things had and but Kazakhstan was a different country. Soviet infrastructure in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's amazing that we were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She taught at a science hospital or a high school in teaching environmental science. And because of that, it was a technology based school. So, you know, I doubt that all the high schools had the Internet in Kazakhstan. And, you know, probably that one, you know, I don't know about a previous volunteer in Paladar. I think it helped set up that particular service at high school had when she got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty wonderful that your daughter also did Peace Corps. I’m sure you inspired her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my other daughter became a missionary in Africa, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. You continue the international interest. That's great."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.806311280100003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She taught at a science hospital or a high school in teaching environmental science. And because of that, it was a technology based school. So, you know, I doubt that all the high schools had the Internet in Kazakhstan. And, you know, probably that one, you know, I don't know about a previous volunteer in Paladar. I think it helped set up that particular service at high school had when she got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty wonderful that your daughter also did Peace Corps. I’m sure you inspired her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my other daughter became a missionary in Africa, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. You continue the international interest. That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she's back, they're both back in Indiana now. So they don't have to travel all the time. They've got kids and they've got grandkids now. Yeah. Life is good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. And you were even the first full circle where you go back to Afghanistan to help them out. But you went back in 2004. Have you been back since?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 17.562568089000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my other daughter became a missionary in Africa, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. You continue the international interest. That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she's back, they're both back in Indiana now. So they don't have to travel all the time. They've got kids and they've got grandkids now. Yeah. Life is good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. And you were even the first full circle where you go back to Afghanistan to help them out. But you went back in 2004. Have you been back since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you've been helping still nonetheless."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.106490000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it lasted. I don't know that it made a difference in avoiding Soviet invasion, 40 years of war. Many of the Children that I taught are dead or. But I doubt that I made enemies right. So I didn't contribute to that. And I and I did learn how the through the values of this culture and through the relationships that I learned to build with people in the culture that. They're capable of making a difference. Yes, and enabling them to make the difference is what it should be about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, being the catalyst to allow the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not about what I do, but it's about what we what we get from the people that we're meeting and working with. And I think volunteers should be encouraged to go with that idea in mind. That's where that's where the lasting value comes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're just a small piece of the puzzle. You know, we're just we should just be a catalyst to allow the country to do what they need to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I saw it happen with lots of volunteers. I mean, the programs had lots of volunteers were involved in, although I must say that the ladies that went out on horseback to do smallpox vaccinations personally put their lives on the line, personally made a world of difference. You know, and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Getting rid of, to eradicate. Yeah, that's wonderful."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.896100000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not about what I do, but it's about what we what we get from the people that we're meeting and working with. And I think volunteers should be encouraged to go with that idea in mind. That's where that's where the lasting value comes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're just a small piece of the puzzle. You know, we're just we should just be a catalyst to allow the country to do what they need to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I saw it happen with lots of volunteers. I mean, the programs had lots of volunteers were involved in, although I must say that the ladies that went out on horseback to do smallpox vaccinations personally put their lives on the line, personally made a world of difference. You know, and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Getting rid of, to eradicate. Yeah, that's wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you were able to do it without military accompaniment. They had had an Afghan meal that went along with, you know, they had medical supplies and they went into villages and knocked on doors and in areas that we now call Taliban country. And because they were women, they were allowed to open the doors. The women, the women could talk to God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's really interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway, So I'm also very proud of the fact that some of these Afghan refugees that have come to the United States are become resources for us in a war."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And their encounters with Peace Corps volunteers and so forth. One of our board members with Friends of Afghanistan is, uh, is an Afghan American born in the United States. His father came to United States, had been taught by Peace Corps volunteers, and he has become Baktash is his name and he's on Friends of Afghanistan. He has become the first Afghan American Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yay!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and he was Peace Corps. And then after he finished Peace Corps, he was a translator for U.S. military. And now he's doing documentaries about Afghanistan, educating Americans about the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so it's full circle."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And their encounters with Peace Corps volunteers and so forth. One of our board members with Friends of Afghanistan is, uh, is an Afghan American born in the United States. His father came to United States, had been taught by Peace Corps volunteers, and he has become Baktash is his name and he's on Friends of Afghanistan. He has become the first Afghan American Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yay!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and he was Peace Corps. And then after he finished Peace Corps, he was a translator for U.S. military. And now he's doing documentaries about Afghanistan, educating Americans about the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so it's full circle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So through friends and through connections and Peace Corps NPCA groups, groups like local regional groups where you're meeting with Peace Corps volunteers from other countries or with volunteers from the country you served in. And there's an affinity between volunteers. It's the, you know, the shared outhouse experience, I suppose, but it is. And then country service groups, there's another level of shared sharing and storytelling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. We're just trying to make peace throughout the world."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and he was Peace Corps. And then after he finished Peace Corps, he was a translator for U.S. military. And now he's doing documentaries about Afghanistan, educating Americans about the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so it's full circle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So through friends and through connections and Peace Corps NPCA groups, groups like local regional groups where you're meeting with Peace Corps volunteers from other countries or with volunteers from the country you served in. And there's an affinity between volunteers. It's the, you know, the shared outhouse experience, I suppose, but it is. And then country service groups, there's another level of shared sharing and storytelling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. We're just trying to make peace throughout the world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. Yeah, well it's going to take a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's ah well the Peace Corps has been at it for over 50 years. Yeah. Yeah. Well thank you so much for sharing your story and your full circle story of Afghanistan."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00155:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So through friends and through connections and Peace Corps NPCA groups, groups like local regional groups where you're meeting with Peace Corps volunteers from other countries or with volunteers from the country you served in. And there's an affinity between volunteers. It's the, you know, the shared outhouse experience, I suppose, but it is. And then country service groups, there's another level of shared sharing and storytelling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. We're just trying to make peace throughout the world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. Yeah, well it's going to take a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's ah well the Peace Corps has been at it for over 50 years. Yeah. Yeah. Well thank you so much for sharing your story and your full circle story of Afghanistan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was lovely to hear. Thank you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 27.13348367578283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ladies, glad to be here. Yes, I’m not all that busy. My busy today is stuff that there’s no schedules typically associated with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice to have some flexibility. I thought we’d start with Challenger [STS-51L]. I understand you were at the Action Center in Building 30 during the launch. Can you talk to us about that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I had worked the mission right before that as a flight director. Would that be [STS]-61C?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, 61C, I’m thinking. Jay [H.] Greene was the lead flight director. I think I might have mentioned this last time. He was mentoring me and I was doing a lot of the lead flight director role, preparing myself to become a lead flight director on that mission. It landed, and this is one of those times where we’re trying to fly Shuttles quicker. We launched 10 days later. If you go all the way back to every manned spaceflight this country has had, I don’t think I have missed a single one. A lot of times I listened to it on the radio—when I was at sea on board recovery ships. Since I’m working here, I’m going to be in the control center, if I’m not working during that time.\\n\\n I went over to the Action Center and sat down just to watch. I had been aware of the cold atmosphere down at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] during that time. I certainly did not get directly involved with it and wasn’t. I wasn’t aware at the time that there was this huge issue with the solid rocket booster joint seals and the temperature. I just wasn’t. I was sitting there just watching and thinking this is going to be okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of things as they unfolded during the launch?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.926092973092032, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I had worked the mission right before that as a flight director. Would that be [STS]-61C?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, 61C, I’m thinking. Jay [H.] Greene was the lead flight director. I think I might have mentioned this last time. He was mentoring me and I was doing a lot of the lead flight director role, preparing myself to become a lead flight director on that mission. It landed, and this is one of those times where we’re trying to fly Shuttles quicker. We launched 10 days later. If you go all the way back to every manned spaceflight this country has had, I don’t think I have missed a single one. A lot of times I listened to it on the radio—when I was at sea on board recovery ships. Since I’m working here, I’m going to be in the control center, if I’m not working during that time.\\n\\n I went over to the Action Center and sat down just to watch. I had been aware of the cold atmosphere down at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] during that time. I certainly did not get directly involved with it and wasn’t. I wasn’t aware at the time that there was this huge issue with the solid rocket booster joint seals and the temperature. I just wasn’t. I was sitting there just watching and thinking this is going to be okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of things as they unfolded during the launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time [of the] explosion and seeing that happen, I think the first thing that I noticed—as it turns out the solid rocket boosters themselves were still flying. I think I said something to the effect of, “Oh, there it is, there it goes,” knowing this was a disaster, but somehow just probably hoping more than anything that what I saw was actually the Shuttle still ascending where they would be able to get into a position to bail out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do after you realized the crew hadn’t survived and they had to—didn’t they detonate the SRBs [solid rocket boosters] at one point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 24.420401203362346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We got them down for a launch. On their one hundredth flight, I don’t remember what STS mission it was, on their one hundredth time to do this, we invited them to come down, and we brought one of the representatives from the flower company. In the viewing room behind the flight control team we presented them with a plaque to take back, and thanked them for all that they had done. I still stay in touch with the family. MacKenzie was three years old when this started, and MacKenzie is married and has a kid now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow! I just think that’s such a great story of the impact that NASA has on the public that you don’t really see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, they’re such good people. He’s done a number of interviews with the local media up in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. He’s a great spokesperson for the program. It’s cool, really cool.\\n\\n I will say we had some close calls. We’ve had some roses carried in during reentry of the Shuttle. It’s interesting. A day or so before landing the flight control team would start asking, “Where are the roses?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they concerned it would jinx the thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right. We don’t want to change this up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s funny. I wanted to ask you about several missions. I thought it was interesting how you were assigned to some that involved planetary probes to Venus, to Jupiter, to the Sun. Was that purposeful? Did you do a lot of work with JPL [Jet Propulsion Lab, Pasadena, California]? Did you just have an interest in planetary missions?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.73816003923928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a very different job, but it was one that I got a big kick out of. I would occasionally have to get on the phone directly back to Goddard, where the mission director would be located, and talk to him, “Okay, here’s what’s going on. Hey, this is what I think we ought to do, and I’m okay with this. How do you feel? You okay?” It was a traffic cop job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But one you were used to, working in MOD."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you about a couple of your DOD [Department of Defense] missions because I noticed that you had a couple of them, STS-44 and [STS]-53."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Forty-four, what was that, Jennifer?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn’t write it down."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 34.15351115471031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you about a couple of your DOD [Department of Defense] missions because I noticed that you had a couple of them, STS-44 and [STS]-53."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Forty-four, what was that, Jennifer?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn’t write it down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s okay. It may come to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn’t write down 53 either. Just curious what it was like working a classified mission versus all the other high-profile missions that you had worked."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.50390128301145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Forty-four, what was that, Jennifer?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn’t write it down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s okay. It may come to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn’t write down 53 either. Just curious what it was like working a classified mission versus all the other high-profile missions that you had worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[They were a] pain in the butt. It was just much more difficult, having to be so careful in handling paperwork and having discussions. They had to be done in a classified manner. It just took more time.\\n\\n Beyond that it was still the spacecraft and normal issues that you had with an unclassified flight as well. The first one that I worked, I don’t remember the mission number. I thought I worked one before 44. A team comes on after launch, and they’re going to do whatever they’re going to do. I was going to follow that team. I would come in about the time that the crew was getting ready to call it a day after the first day on orbit.\\n\\n I was told that if they didn’t do what they were going to do on the first flight day and it didn’t work right, I would be briefed at that time on what is in the payload bay. To this day I still don’t know. I had no idea what was back there. But I [was told that I] would be briefed prior to taking the shift there, if it was still there. Except for a handful of folks in the control center, [no one knew.] Well, we had a payload officer. We had a person responsible for the payload. That person clearly knew what was there. I really had no need to know, so a lot of that was done that way. I’m telling you I still to this day don’t know what was back there, because when I came in there, the payload bay was empty. It was empty. There wasn’t anything back there. So use your imagination."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel about that, being told that you’re on a need-to-know basis?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 37.226556981123835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s okay. It may come to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn’t write down 53 either. Just curious what it was like working a classified mission versus all the other high-profile missions that you had worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[They were a] pain in the butt. It was just much more difficult, having to be so careful in handling paperwork and having discussions. They had to be done in a classified manner. It just took more time.\\n\\n Beyond that it was still the spacecraft and normal issues that you had with an unclassified flight as well. The first one that I worked, I don’t remember the mission number. I thought I worked one before 44. A team comes on after launch, and they’re going to do whatever they’re going to do. I was going to follow that team. I would come in about the time that the crew was getting ready to call it a day after the first day on orbit.\\n\\n I was told that if they didn’t do what they were going to do on the first flight day and it didn’t work right, I would be briefed at that time on what is in the payload bay. To this day I still don’t know. I had no idea what was back there. But I [was told that I] would be briefed prior to taking the shift there, if it was still there. Except for a handful of folks in the control center, [no one knew.] Well, we had a payload officer. We had a person responsible for the payload. That person clearly knew what was there. I really had no need to know, so a lot of that was done that way. I’m telling you I still to this day don’t know what was back there, because when I came in there, the payload bay was empty. It was empty. There wasn’t anything back there. So use your imagination."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel about that, being told that you’re on a need-to-know basis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t worried about it. It didn’t bother me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to do press conferences for any of those missions?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 40.251729979026486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[They were a] pain in the butt. It was just much more difficult, having to be so careful in handling paperwork and having discussions. They had to be done in a classified manner. It just took more time.\\n\\n Beyond that it was still the spacecraft and normal issues that you had with an unclassified flight as well. The first one that I worked, I don’t remember the mission number. I thought I worked one before 44. A team comes on after launch, and they’re going to do whatever they’re going to do. I was going to follow that team. I would come in about the time that the crew was getting ready to call it a day after the first day on orbit.\\n\\n I was told that if they didn’t do what they were going to do on the first flight day and it didn’t work right, I would be briefed at that time on what is in the payload bay. To this day I still don’t know. I had no idea what was back there. But I [was told that I] would be briefed prior to taking the shift there, if it was still there. Except for a handful of folks in the control center, [no one knew.] Well, we had a payload officer. We had a person responsible for the payload. That person clearly knew what was there. I really had no need to know, so a lot of that was done that way. I’m telling you I still to this day don’t know what was back there, because when I came in there, the payload bay was empty. It was empty. There wasn’t anything back there. So use your imagination."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel about that, being told that you’re on a need-to-know basis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t worried about it. It didn’t bother me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to do press conferences for any of those missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "DOD flights, no. Press conferences, those were a hoot back in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about those and the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 23, "return_to_go": 44.72414442114054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t worried about it. It didn’t bother me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to do press conferences for any of those missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "DOD flights, no. Press conferences, those were a hoot back in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about those and the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. My wife gets tired of me saying this every time I see it, but today, Jennifer, every time I see anybody on TV in a blue shirt and a red tie I know they’ve had the course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that what they told you to wear?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 25.5438036671671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We ended up with 14 separate independent reviews over [the years]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fourteen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fourteen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Official. By my count we had 18. We had some closer to home here. They were ad hoc, but we had all these reviews.\\n\\n With this piece of paper, and knowing that, and with all these reviews, I got to the point where I was cocky, because I knew we could do this. Jennifer, when we launched this mission, I was really convinced we’re going to do this. I should put it this way, these reviews basically showed that there were people looking over our shoulder that agreed with what we were doing and how we were going about doing it. Early on it was a little rough, the very first one or two of these things that we had. We got to the point where we were just rocking and rolling, and we knew what we were going to be doing. I think this team went into that mission pretty doggone cocky about getting it done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have so much oversight on another mission? Did you ever have any independent reviews?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.018658202057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll tell you the story. You’re exactly right. I was cognizant of what we were about to get ready to do, very aware of Kranz’s speech there before the landing, basically saying, “We came in here as a team, we’re going to leave as a team.”\\n\\n I thought in light of what had happened to us with Mars Observer and recognizing and remembering what we got from the Appropriations Committee and their statement, I thought I needed to do something. Before the first EVA I need to do something to get people pumped up a little bit. So I came up with what I was going to do. I was going to tell the CapCom to tell the crew something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are these your notes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is what I had written down. This is what I was going to say. We’re all set up where the crew is in the air lock, they’re getting ready to go, this is the go for the EVA. You’re going to be go for EVA.\\n\\n “CapCom, tell the crew it’s now time to not only restore Hubble’s vision but to restore the credibility of this Agency. They are go for EVA.” That’s what it was. Guess what. I overslept. I got to the control center, can’t remember who—I think Bob [Robert E.] Castle was the one right before me. The crew had already mentioned they might get out early. Bob couldn’t wait on me. He gave them the go to do the EVA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So best-laid plans."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.131842446730001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is what I had written down. This is what I was going to say. We’re all set up where the crew is in the air lock, they’re getting ready to go, this is the go for the EVA. You’re going to be go for EVA.\\n\\n “CapCom, tell the crew it’s now time to not only restore Hubble’s vision but to restore the credibility of this Agency. They are go for EVA.” That’s what it was. Guess what. I overslept. I got to the control center, can’t remember who—I think Bob [Robert E.] Castle was the one right before me. The crew had already mentioned they might get out early. Bob couldn’t wait on me. He gave them the go to do the EVA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So best-laid plans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn’t work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s disappointing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.3687138297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So best-laid plans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn’t work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s disappointing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Didn’t work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that relates to another question. What were your work hours and workdays like when you started working on this mission? Were they any different from other missions? Or were you working extended hours because there was so much that had to be done?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.063530000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "None of that went up. None of this went to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not that, but just keeping the rhythm with the crew, were you conversing with them rather than CapCom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was not, it was just through CapCom. But you could tell on board they were doing fine.\\n\\n This is back in the days too—I ran across this. This is before all this wonderful stuff we got these days. This is from Dick Covey. It was typed up on board and sent down by the teleprinter. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of that goofy thing we used to have, teleprinter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was to me from Covey. This is after the EVA. We were all buttoned up, redeployed. It’s late in the mission. It’s getting close to landing time. He said, “Well, partner, we did it, and damn well at that. Now if I can just land this puppy on a dark night in a couple days, we’ll put a wrap on the JSC team’s role in restoring Hubble. I know you will probably be willing to hoist a beer for me tonight.” Certainly I did. “Let me tell you though that if I had one right now I would be lifting it in the team’s name.” Isn’t that cool?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s really nice."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.181700000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was not, it was just through CapCom. But you could tell on board they were doing fine.\\n\\n This is back in the days too—I ran across this. This is before all this wonderful stuff we got these days. This is from Dick Covey. It was typed up on board and sent down by the teleprinter. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of that goofy thing we used to have, teleprinter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was to me from Covey. This is after the EVA. We were all buttoned up, redeployed. It’s late in the mission. It’s getting close to landing time. He said, “Well, partner, we did it, and damn well at that. Now if I can just land this puppy on a dark night in a couple days, we’ll put a wrap on the JSC team’s role in restoring Hubble. I know you will probably be willing to hoist a beer for me tonight.” Certainly I did. “Let me tell you though that if I had one right now I would be lifting it in the team’s name.” Isn’t that cool?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s really nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s really cool. Then he had a little P.S. He said, “P.S., thanks for preserving the day off.” Early Shuttle we didn’t have anything called a day off, but we began to learn it’s a good idea to give the crew some time off occasionally. We must have somehow even found a way to give them a little time off. I don’t know how we did that. But he said, “Thanks for preserving the day off. It really means a lot to the whole crew.” That was it. That was a nice note from Covey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any major challenges during the mission? You mentioned the strap."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 12.57, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s really cool. Then he had a little P.S. He said, “P.S., thanks for preserving the day off.” Early Shuttle we didn’t have anything called a day off, but we began to learn it’s a good idea to give the crew some time off occasionally. We must have somehow even found a way to give them a little time off. I don’t know how we did that. But he said, “Thanks for preserving the day off. It really means a lot to the whole crew.” That was it. That was a nice note from Covey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any major challenges during the mission? You mentioned the strap."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From a Hubble standpoint, the major challenge that we had [was one] I talked about earlier, closing these access doors. My zeal [was] to get those doors closed, so we didn’t talk about it the night afterwards and have to replan the EVA. That was the most significant Hubble-related problem that we had. We had two or three other things on Hubble that we discovered that we were able to just come up with a little additional procedure to get fixed. That’s why I said we were 13 for 11.\\n\\n There was nothing on the Orbiter side that hung over our heads. There were always some little bits and pieces here relative to some of the environmental control system procedures or hardware, but things that we had work-arounds that we’d used before. We probably did some of those. There wasn’t anything from the Orbiter standpoint that caused us to have a problem like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You and other members of the Hubble team ended up winning the Robert Collier Trophy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will you talk about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00237:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 7.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will you talk about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What a nice thing. I’m told that that’s aviation’s highest award. Goes back a long ways. That was really nice that the crew and myself, I think Randy Brinkley might have been on that too. It’s a very very nice thing. Got a nice replica of the Collier Trophy that I got to keep, a small one. It’s at an air and space museum in Oklahoma City, my home state. It’s up there now.\\n\\n After the mission the European side of this, the folks that built the solar arrays and some of the other hardware, they invited the crew and their wives to come. About an 11-day, 10-day tour going around Europe to the various places that manufactured stuff for Hubble.\\n\\n Story at the time was single, and Story invited me to take the place of his spouse. No, the crew invited me to attend this with them, this tour, which was really really nice. I bring it up because on this tour I can’t remember what country we were in, but I got notified that I had been honored as the Astronaut of the Year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From Countdown magazine, which is no longer in business by the way. I was the Astronaut of the Year for my contributions to the Hubble repair. I learned that with the crew, and I had so much fun with that, by the way. I got the certificate somewhere. I think I got it over there as a matter of fact, so I could show it to them at the time, and said, “Look here, guys, hey, I’m Astronaut of the Year and I’ve never flown in space.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did a lot for that mission. I know you did. What do you think is the legacy of STS-61, just looking back? So many years have passed. Is there something in particular you would point to?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.98228956931019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now let us then get ready to roll through all those years. How many years was it when you first came aboard NACA [National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics] (not NASA)?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1941. March of ’41. And the way I came aboard was as a model maker, as well as a friend of mine, Caldwell [C.] Johnson. We lived in various cities and heard that the government was hiring employees to actually build models for wind tunnel research. And here I had spent probably from age 12 until 25 or so building competitive models; and it was, you know, very interesting to me in the aeronautics field. So, I had an opportunity, and I filed an application, got a call to come down to [NACA Langley Memorial Aeronautical Laboratory] Hampton, Virginia, and take a interview. And I’ll never forget the day. It was such a wonderful thing for me to get hired to build models—my hobby, my life’s hobby—and get paid for it! So, that’s how things started, Roy. I just was one of those lucky guys who came into the business through aeronautics, through our hobby in aviation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you started in 1941?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "’41."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As World War II was really getting under way for these United States."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.20254396590021, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1941. March of ’41. And the way I came aboard was as a model maker, as well as a friend of mine, Caldwell [C.] Johnson. We lived in various cities and heard that the government was hiring employees to actually build models for wind tunnel research. And here I had spent probably from age 12 until 25 or so building competitive models; and it was, you know, very interesting to me in the aeronautics field. So, I had an opportunity, and I filed an application, got a call to come down to [NACA Langley Memorial Aeronautical Laboratory] Hampton, Virginia, and take a interview. And I’ll never forget the day. It was such a wonderful thing for me to get hired to build models—my hobby, my life’s hobby—and get paid for it! So, that’s how things started, Roy. I just was one of those lucky guys who came into the business through aeronautics, through our hobby in aviation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you started in 1941?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "’41."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As World War II was really getting under way for these United States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does that mean you were working on some wartime projects during that war?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.225048851000235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "’41."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As World War II was really getting under way for these United States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does that mean you were working on some wartime projects during that war?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it does. I worked in the machine shop at the time on Langley Field Base. And they had various secret projects for the military, for the war, including advanced designed airplanes that were still in the development stage. And so they gave we employees secret ratings; and whenever the draft boards in our local neighborhoods tried to call us up, all we had to do was go over to the draft officer in NACA and tell him, “We’ve got a call. What do we do?” And he says, “Well, just take your time. Don’t worry about it.” He says, “You’re not going anywhere.” So, as a result of that, we were put in the Air Corps enlisted reserve. We did have to board a bus and go up to Richmond, Virginia, and take physicals and go through all these steps that you would as a draftee. But upon the completion of the physical test and everything else, the colonel (or whoever it was) there said, “Okay, fellows, you’re heading back to work at Langley Field.” So, that’s how that came about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then one day the National Advisory [Committee for] Aeronautics became the National Aeronautics and Space Administration."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 22.47227650111137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does that mean you were working on some wartime projects during that war?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it does. I worked in the machine shop at the time on Langley Field Base. And they had various secret projects for the military, for the war, including advanced designed airplanes that were still in the development stage. And so they gave we employees secret ratings; and whenever the draft boards in our local neighborhoods tried to call us up, all we had to do was go over to the draft officer in NACA and tell him, “We’ve got a call. What do we do?” And he says, “Well, just take your time. Don’t worry about it.” He says, “You’re not going anywhere.” So, as a result of that, we were put in the Air Corps enlisted reserve. We did have to board a bus and go up to Richmond, Virginia, and take physicals and go through all these steps that you would as a draftee. But upon the completion of the physical test and everything else, the colonel (or whoever it was) there said, “Okay, fellows, you’re heading back to work at Langley Field.” So, that’s how that came about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then one day the National Advisory [Committee for] Aeronautics became the National Aeronautics and Space Administration."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It had a new role. And that, of course, meant that your life changed considerably, didn’t it, Jack?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.336143828532556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It had a new role. And that, of course, meant that your life changed considerably, didn’t it, Jack?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much so. And it’s kind of an interesting thing to talk about because, as a young fellow working in the shops, I was across the street from the department where [Robert R.] Bob Gilruth had his facilities: the PARD (Pilotless Aircraft Research Division). And you know, I’m sure, of Bob’s activities. But I’ll leave that go for now. But as one of the employees over there, I had developed a kind of a lot contacts because I was in charge of a group of 10 men as a subgroup of the shops and we would go out to the test facilities, install the precision models, and do modifications as required around the space—around the Center.\\n\\n So, I got to be well-known and whenever they—Bob decided he was going to start a Space Task Group, he went to my superiors and he said, “I’d like to have at least one of your people who could come with me and develop a similar facility like we have here at Langley.” And then he called me and he said, “Jack, would you like to work over in the space program with me?” And I said, “By all means!” I had been reading books about spaceflight and listened to some of the lectures that were available at the time, and I was primed, ready to jump onboard whenever he asked me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Still a very young man, of course, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was quite young then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, the Space Task Group reached out and pulled you in. And at first, did you have an assignment or did you have to make your own?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.69894299818834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was quite young then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, the Space Task Group reached out and pulled you in. And at first, did you have an assignment or did you have to make your own?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s kind of interesting. He knew that—he asked me to come with him so that the shop’s organization could be represented in some fashion. Remember this: there were 1,000 employees at Langley Research Center, scattered around in all their research shops. And it’s not a manufacturing-type environment; it’s a research and development environment. So, with that knowledge, he thought, “I’d better take somebody with me that’s familiar with this kind of business.” So, he asked me if I would go, and I joined him; and we followed on, and we came to Houston, [Texas]; and he never gave me another bit of instruction. He said, “I want you to create an entire technical services organization with up to 200 people. And you would design the buildings, lay out the basic outline of the facilities. You would go about the country, recruit people. And while you’re doing that, you’ll run around to the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] with the Big Joe capsule that you built at Langley.” So, it was a thrilling thing for me to get an offer like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to come back to that, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because right now I think we’re jumping out of Langley into Houston a little rapidly—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 19.665492220209266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s kind of interesting. He knew that—he asked me to come with him so that the shop’s organization could be represented in some fashion. Remember this: there were 1,000 employees at Langley Research Center, scattered around in all their research shops. And it’s not a manufacturing-type environment; it’s a research and development environment. So, with that knowledge, he thought, “I’d better take somebody with me that’s familiar with this kind of business.” So, he asked me if I would go, and I joined him; and we followed on, and we came to Houston, [Texas]; and he never gave me another bit of instruction. He said, “I want you to create an entire technical services organization with up to 200 people. And you would design the buildings, lay out the basic outline of the facilities. You would go about the country, recruit people. And while you’re doing that, you’ll run around to the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] with the Big Joe capsule that you built at Langley.” So, it was a thrilling thing for me to get an offer like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to come back to that, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because right now I think we’re jumping out of Langley into Houston a little rapidly—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Too soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—because you were doing things back there at Langley before you came here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.183880244676962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because right now I think we’re jumping out of Langley into Houston a little rapidly—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Too soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—because you were doing things back there at Langley before you came here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. In the earliest days, just prior to NACA becoming NASA, there was a gentleman who created what is now called the parasail. And in that project I had occasion to work with him and then I also went out to the Jet Propulsion Lab and worked there. When we considered the idea of making a passive satellite (you may or may not have heard of this), but we built a sphere 6-in. in diameter and filled it with a—some material which would expand if you exposed it to a vacuum of space; and we had a 12-ft diameter Mylar plastic-type device that would balloon out and become a spherical satellite, if you will. So, I worked on that project as well as— [William J.] O’Sullivan [Jr.] was the gentleman who had the parasail. I was involved with both of those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that balloon sounds a lot like something called [Project] Echo."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.315422494085512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Too soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—because you were doing things back there at Langley before you came here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. In the earliest days, just prior to NACA becoming NASA, there was a gentleman who created what is now called the parasail. And in that project I had occasion to work with him and then I also went out to the Jet Propulsion Lab and worked there. When we considered the idea of making a passive satellite (you may or may not have heard of this), but we built a sphere 6-in. in diameter and filled it with a—some material which would expand if you exposed it to a vacuum of space; and we had a 12-ft diameter Mylar plastic-type device that would balloon out and become a spherical satellite, if you will. So, I worked on that project as well as— [William J.] O’Sullivan [Jr.] was the gentleman who had the parasail. I was involved with both of those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that balloon sounds a lot like something called [Project] Echo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Echo, right. After our 12-footer was successful, we went ahead and built a 100-ft sized sphere, which packed in about a 24-in. diameter sphere. Same principles. Launched on some of the existing booster rockets that were in use in those days. So, here again we were well ahead of the beginning of any assay in this instance. Just, you know, a year or two. But—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you’re back in the ’50s now. You've been there from ’41 into the ’50s."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.572691660095012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. In the earliest days, just prior to NACA becoming NASA, there was a gentleman who created what is now called the parasail. And in that project I had occasion to work with him and then I also went out to the Jet Propulsion Lab and worked there. When we considered the idea of making a passive satellite (you may or may not have heard of this), but we built a sphere 6-in. in diameter and filled it with a—some material which would expand if you exposed it to a vacuum of space; and we had a 12-ft diameter Mylar plastic-type device that would balloon out and become a spherical satellite, if you will. So, I worked on that project as well as— [William J.] O’Sullivan [Jr.] was the gentleman who had the parasail. I was involved with both of those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that balloon sounds a lot like something called [Project] Echo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Echo, right. After our 12-footer was successful, we went ahead and built a 100-ft sized sphere, which packed in about a 24-in. diameter sphere. Same principles. Launched on some of the existing booster rockets that were in use in those days. So, here again we were well ahead of the beginning of any assay in this instance. Just, you know, a year or two. But—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you’re back in the ’50s now. You've been there from ’41 into the ’50s."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Into the ’50s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so this gives us that transitional time in the ’50s, as NACA transitioned into NASA."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.969657400105568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Echo, right. After our 12-footer was successful, we went ahead and built a 100-ft sized sphere, which packed in about a 24-in. diameter sphere. Same principles. Launched on some of the existing booster rockets that were in use in those days. So, here again we were well ahead of the beginning of any assay in this instance. Just, you know, a year or two. But—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you’re back in the ’50s now. You've been there from ’41 into the ’50s."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Into the ’50s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so this gives us that transitional time in the ’50s, as NACA transitioned into NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it does."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And gave you a beginning into what was to become the manned spaceflight program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.521841555672854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Into the ’50s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so this gives us that transitional time in the ’50s, as NACA transitioned into NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it does."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And gave you a beginning into what was to become the manned spaceflight program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must’ve changed a lot of the thinking of the kind of things on which you were working. No more balloons."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.690935061858726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it does."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And gave you a beginning into what was to become the manned spaceflight program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must’ve changed a lot of the thinking of the kind of things on which you were working. No more balloons."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you could certainly say that, because they haven’t made any more that I know of in the present period of time. As far as a transition: we were involved with aviation in NACA, and aviation dictates airplanes with wings and so on. So, the aerodynamic aspects of aviation certainly led over into the development of the capsules that had to fly. We had to have a means of them sustaining themselves, you know, in later flight. And of course, I’m jumping a mile when I get to the Shuttle. But nevertheless, we did—our experience with aviation, I think, was a direct leader into the days of the rockets and so on. As a matter of fact, you may or may not have heard a lot about Bob Gilruth’s concept.\\n\\n We in the machine shop built scale models of wings. We were interested in trying to break the sound barrier because it was a limit in the wind tunnels. You couldn’t do it. The air flowing through the tunnels would get turbulent, and you couldn’t get any decent data from it. So, Bob and his group came up with the idea of building small wings, mounting them on the side of a rocket, firing them out at Wallops Island, over in Virginia, off in the Atlantic. And as they were ascending at high speed, they would go through the sound barrier. Meantime, they were able to take telegraphic pictures (telegraphic’s the wrong word). But photos of the activities, and also—telemetry is the word I was looking for. Radio telemetry. So, with that concept, we were kind of moving over into space, trying to get more data on transonic flight. That was a real transition there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now that was before actually the—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.989927846509696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must’ve changed a lot of the thinking of the kind of things on which you were working. No more balloons."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you could certainly say that, because they haven’t made any more that I know of in the present period of time. As far as a transition: we were involved with aviation in NACA, and aviation dictates airplanes with wings and so on. So, the aerodynamic aspects of aviation certainly led over into the development of the capsules that had to fly. We had to have a means of them sustaining themselves, you know, in later flight. And of course, I’m jumping a mile when I get to the Shuttle. But nevertheless, we did—our experience with aviation, I think, was a direct leader into the days of the rockets and so on. As a matter of fact, you may or may not have heard a lot about Bob Gilruth’s concept.\\n\\n We in the machine shop built scale models of wings. We were interested in trying to break the sound barrier because it was a limit in the wind tunnels. You couldn’t do it. The air flowing through the tunnels would get turbulent, and you couldn’t get any decent data from it. So, Bob and his group came up with the idea of building small wings, mounting them on the side of a rocket, firing them out at Wallops Island, over in Virginia, off in the Atlantic. And as they were ascending at high speed, they would go through the sound barrier. Meantime, they were able to take telegraphic pictures (telegraphic’s the wrong word). But photos of the activities, and also—telemetry is the word I was looking for. Radio telemetry. So, with that concept, we were kind of moving over into space, trying to get more data on transonic flight. That was a real transition there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now that was before actually the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before—that was still NACA. But close to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so, when the time came that the Space Task Group was formed, there was a lot of background there and a lot of people who at least had some basic knowledge with which to begin."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.802380057419375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before—that was still NACA. But close to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so, when the time came that the Space Task Group was formed, there was a lot of background there and a lot of people who at least had some basic knowledge with which to begin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much so. And I guess the public in general doesn’t realize that we weren’t a rocket-oriented agency then. But Bob’s group utilized the solid rockets to fly and do work in the transonic speed range. So, there’s the connection there. In other words, that led them to thinking that “Since we have a capability to fire rockets, maybe we could put a man in space.” That—it really originated right there with Bob’s group, the Project Mercury concept for a man in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed you said “transonic,” not “supersonic.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Transonic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were getting up into the higher realm, weren’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.27454328076466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Transonic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were getting up into the higher realm, weren’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About what timetable was that? The late ’50s or the early ’50s, mid-’50s?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.193936978627402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About what timetable was that? The late ’50s or the early ’50s, mid-’50s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably about ’55, ’57, ’58. Leading up—coming up close to the creation of NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’58, wasn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.326596642919334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About what timetable was that? The late ’50s or the early ’50s, mid-’50s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably about ’55, ’57, ’58. Leading up—coming up close to the creation of NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’58, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In ’58, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s when the Space Task Group really was formed, too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.696218492132594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably about ’55, ’57, ’58. Leading up—coming up close to the creation of NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’58, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In ’58, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s when the Space Task Group really was formed, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then the astronauts were chosen—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 26.329131657925103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In ’58, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s when the Space Task Group really was formed, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then the astronauts were chosen—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—shortly thereafter. Well, now we’re into that realm of astronauts; and suddenly the new task is there. Tell us about the beginnings. How do you begin to design to send—to build something that will send a man into space?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.651202406146876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually flew, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, that was one of the things we never really saw during the landing operations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We never realized that heatshield slid down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was dangling down in the water—sloshing around. Now, I’ve got to give you a little side. (You’re helping lead me on here in the way I want to go.)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that’s what they have in mind for me."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.50133600682986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We never realized that heatshield slid down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was dangling down in the water—sloshing around. Now, I’ve got to give you a little side. (You’re helping lead me on here in the way I want to go.)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that’s what they have in mind for me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s my kind of role. Go ahead, Jack."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 20.428111505943008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, I can give you an exact example of that. We’ll have to jump way forward, but we can come back. On the Skylab Project, which I’m sure you’ll get to later, Max Faget was on the floor watching us do our early demonstrations of the parasol. And we had some telescoping tubes, which slid back and forth, but they didn’t have any latching effect on them, so that they had to depend on just a friction, like a fishing rod. And he got down on the floor, and he worked one as I watched, and he said, “You know,” he says, “I don’t see why you can’t put a little slit in this aluminum tube, bend it down (it kind of has a spring temper to it).” And he said, “Then put an offset in the next adjacent piece.” He said, “Whenever you pull them out, one at a time, they’ll jump and latch; and they won’t be able to go back.”\\n\\n So, he did that. He designed something that—I was [the] designer primarily of this Skylab parasol. But a person like Max, who was a Director at the Center—a Division Director lay down on the floor and kind of looked at it! So, that’s typical. And both Bob Gilruth and George Low, those were all design engineer-type people. They had to learn how to become administrators and managers, but they were already highly skilled designers on their own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they tell the story that on one occasion, using ingenuity again, you had a boilerplate that was somehow dished up on a mattress."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you know about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’ve been reading books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve been reading about you. So, why don’t you tell us that one, if you would. Okay?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.32250220719183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I could just go on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But basically the big story there is that you simply applied what you knew to make something work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And used sort of commonsense ideas as far as procedure, but not common—not anything that the average person would do, you know. I mean, I don’t think there are many guys would do it, what I did, in this case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you did it and it worked."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.802780230213145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And used sort of commonsense ideas as far as procedure, but not common—not anything that the average person would do, you know. I mean, I don’t think there are many guys would do it, what I did, in this case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you did it and it worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course. So, now finally after all the boilerplates, Mercury was ready to fly."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.447533589125715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And used sort of commonsense ideas as far as procedure, but not common—not anything that the average person would do, you know. I mean, I don’t think there are many guys would do it, what I did, in this case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you did it and it worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course. So, now finally after all the boilerplates, Mercury was ready to fly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they require any more model-making at that stage of the game—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.97226369027866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they require any more model-making at that stage of the game—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I’ve left out the function of the shops at Langley. They made a lot of precision models of the Mercury capsule for testing for the aerodynamic shapes and things of that kind. So, there was an active program of making models (metal models) that could be tested in wind tunnels as Mercury was developing. We didn’t just skip by that. We built models. And in my shop, the machine shop at the Johnson Space Center, also made models in the early days. And then we made models later of the Apollo and the Skylab and, you know, everything that came out as a full-size object started in modeling throughout the entire program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now they were flying Mercury while you were beginning to look at Gemini and other points and to the Moon, too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.746959655865176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I’ve left out the function of the shops at Langley. They made a lot of precision models of the Mercury capsule for testing for the aerodynamic shapes and things of that kind. So, there was an active program of making models (metal models) that could be tested in wind tunnels as Mercury was developing. We didn’t just skip by that. We built models. And in my shop, the machine shop at the Johnson Space Center, also made models in the early days. And then we made models later of the Apollo and the Skylab and, you know, everything that came out as a full-size object started in modeling throughout the entire program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now they were flying Mercury while you were beginning to look at Gemini and other points and to the Moon, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Mars even."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.385510728739085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I’ve left out the function of the shops at Langley. They made a lot of precision models of the Mercury capsule for testing for the aerodynamic shapes and things of that kind. So, there was an active program of making models (metal models) that could be tested in wind tunnels as Mercury was developing. We didn’t just skip by that. We built models. And in my shop, the machine shop at the Johnson Space Center, also made models in the early days. And then we made models later of the Apollo and the Skylab and, you know, everything that came out as a full-size object started in modeling throughout the entire program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now they were flying Mercury while you were beginning to look at Gemini and other points and to the Moon, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Mars even."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the way back, we had Mars models we built in 1962. Not many people know that. But we had a group of engineers who were thinking ahead about Mars in the early ’60s. Now we’re talking about we can do it in 17 days, and you know—but that’s a fact. Because we had the Mars mission models that we built. Now we didn’t go very far with that, of course. We just did some—built some replica conceptual models."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting at the time. But, too, you had the immediate job of, “Let’s get on with flying to the Moon” by that time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.206123031932314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Mars even."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the way back, we had Mars models we built in 1962. Not many people know that. But we had a group of engineers who were thinking ahead about Mars in the early ’60s. Now we’re talking about we can do it in 17 days, and you know—but that’s a fact. Because we had the Mars mission models that we built. Now we didn’t go very far with that, of course. We just did some—built some replica conceptual models."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting at the time. But, too, you had the immediate job of, “Let’s get on with flying to the Moon” by that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once Mercury got well involved, the President [John F. Kennedy] had declared and you had a goal. And I imagine this accelerated things in your life, didn’t it, Jack?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.229025591035903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the way back, we had Mars models we built in 1962. Not many people know that. But we had a group of engineers who were thinking ahead about Mars in the early ’60s. Now we’re talking about we can do it in 17 days, and you know—but that’s a fact. Because we had the Mars mission models that we built. Now we didn’t go very far with that, of course. We just did some—built some replica conceptual models."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting at the time. But, too, you had the immediate job of, “Let’s get on with flying to the Moon” by that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once Mercury got well involved, the President [John F. Kennedy] had declared and you had a goal. And I imagine this accelerated things in your life, didn’t it, Jack?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes it did. It brought on the fact we had to move from Langley. And in addition to that, we were charged with all sorts of responsibilities that I didn’t have before. I had to come on to Houston and design a layout for a shop that would support the research and development we did and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was named Technical Services wasn't it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.36558399003989, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once Mercury got well involved, the President [John F. Kennedy] had declared and you had a goal. And I imagine this accelerated things in your life, didn’t it, Jack?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes it did. It brought on the fact we had to move from Langley. And in addition to that, we were charged with all sorts of responsibilities that I didn’t have before. I had to come on to Houston and design a layout for a shop that would support the research and development we did and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was named Technical Services wasn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Technical] Services Division. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You finally had a title."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.73953776671099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes it did. It brought on the fact we had to move from Langley. And in addition to that, we were charged with all sorts of responsibilities that I didn’t have before. I had to come on to Houston and design a layout for a shop that would support the research and development we did and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was named Technical Services wasn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Technical] Services Division. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You finally had a title."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were Director of Technical Services."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 25.26615307412332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Technical] Services Division. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You finally had a title."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were Director of Technical Services."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I left my title with Bob Gilruth as his Technical Assistant and became Technical Service Division Chief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did that really mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.536127227744732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were really building up to that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you actually involve yourselves at the time also with the working hardware that would fly with the astronauts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We built flight hardware from day one. They call it “flight hardware” when it’s going into flight. And I’ve been talking about boilerplates and models and capsules and such, but flight hardware was a common activity of our department—both in Langley, when we—well, they didn’t bring—they built—they didn’t build any flight hardware there. They just built the early prototype Mercury stuff. But once we got to Houston, we made things that were mostly the experiments that had to do with each flight. We would build the total experiment in house. And the experiment could be, you know, a lot of machine work and electronic wiring and hookups. And the development of exercise equipment for the astronauts. You know, the thing now that everybody uses to walk on in place? We built prototypes of those in our shops. And they actually flew those things!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me get this straight, too, Jack. Because basically, you were getting the spacecraft from the contractor. Others were concerned with making that spacecraft flightworthy."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.151252475271924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you actually involve yourselves at the time also with the working hardware that would fly with the astronauts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We built flight hardware from day one. They call it “flight hardware” when it’s going into flight. And I’ve been talking about boilerplates and models and capsules and such, but flight hardware was a common activity of our department—both in Langley, when we—well, they didn’t bring—they built—they didn’t build any flight hardware there. They just built the early prototype Mercury stuff. But once we got to Houston, we made things that were mostly the experiments that had to do with each flight. We would build the total experiment in house. And the experiment could be, you know, a lot of machine work and electronic wiring and hookups. And the development of exercise equipment for the astronauts. You know, the thing now that everybody uses to walk on in place? We built prototypes of those in our shops. And they actually flew those things!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me get this straight, too, Jack. Because basically, you were getting the spacecraft from the contractor. Others were concerned with making that spacecraft flightworthy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were basically handling or developing flight articles to be developed and used."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.94583608363547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We built flight hardware from day one. They call it “flight hardware” when it’s going into flight. And I’ve been talking about boilerplates and models and capsules and such, but flight hardware was a common activity of our department—both in Langley, when we—well, they didn’t bring—they built—they didn’t build any flight hardware there. They just built the early prototype Mercury stuff. But once we got to Houston, we made things that were mostly the experiments that had to do with each flight. We would build the total experiment in house. And the experiment could be, you know, a lot of machine work and electronic wiring and hookups. And the development of exercise equipment for the astronauts. You know, the thing now that everybody uses to walk on in place? We built prototypes of those in our shops. And they actually flew those things!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me get this straight, too, Jack. Because basically, you were getting the spacecraft from the contractor. Others were concerned with making that spacecraft flightworthy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were basically handling or developing flight articles to be developed and used."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Flight articles to be flown. That’s right. Flight articles. But then there were times when the Apollo fire came and they had a bolted hatch together, and it was determined, “This is impossible. We shouldn’t have anything like this. You can’t get out quick enough.” We built a alternate quick-opening hatch in our shops as a fix for the Apollo fire change design. We built it from their drawings, the actual full-size door that had hinges and it would open quickly; and you didn’t have the complications of the other one. So, we had times when we built things that were actually put right onboard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the design that was adopted then as the fix was made?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.939817870706076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were basically handling or developing flight articles to be developed and used."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Flight articles to be flown. That’s right. Flight articles. But then there were times when the Apollo fire came and they had a bolted hatch together, and it was determined, “This is impossible. We shouldn’t have anything like this. You can’t get out quick enough.” We built a alternate quick-opening hatch in our shops as a fix for the Apollo fire change design. We built it from their drawings, the actual full-size door that had hinges and it would open quickly; and you didn’t have the complications of the other one. So, we had times when we built things that were actually put right onboard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the design that was adopted then as the fix was made?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Redesigned the Apollo."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.044242078562306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Flight articles to be flown. That’s right. Flight articles. But then there were times when the Apollo fire came and they had a bolted hatch together, and it was determined, “This is impossible. We shouldn’t have anything like this. You can’t get out quick enough.” We built a alternate quick-opening hatch in our shops as a fix for the Apollo fire change design. We built it from their drawings, the actual full-size door that had hinges and it would open quickly; and you didn’t have the complications of the other one. So, we had times when we built things that were actually put right onboard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the design that was adopted then as the fix was made?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Redesigned the Apollo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Redesigned the Apollo, where they decided the door hatch was a limiter and would be very apt to, you know, cause a future problems, if they had another fire or whatever. So, they quickly got together and came up with a completely modified design that opened in seconds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember, too, during that time you were doing a lot dealing with EVA [extravehicular activity]. Spacewalking. Propulsion systems. That sort of thing. Can you describe those for us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.16026897618034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Redesigned the Apollo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Redesigned the Apollo, where they decided the door hatch was a limiter and would be very apt to, you know, cause a future problems, if they had another fire or whatever. So, they quickly got together and came up with a completely modified design that opened in seconds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember, too, during that time you were doing a lot dealing with EVA [extravehicular activity]. Spacewalking. Propulsion systems. That sort of thing. Can you describe those for us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When they were nearing the time to go into trying for spacewalks, we had an engineer who came into our shops and said, “I think I’ve got an idea. The Russians opened their hatch and they dangled their astronaut out,” Yuri [A.] Gagarin, I think it was. I’m not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first guy who did the walk—oh, the first one—the first one was [Alexei A.] Leonov, who did the first spacewalk."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.000332069358443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When they were nearing the time to go into trying for spacewalks, we had an engineer who came into our shops and said, “I think I’ve got an idea. The Russians opened their hatch and they dangled their astronaut out,” Yuri [A.] Gagarin, I think it was. I’m not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first guy who did the walk—oh, the first one—the first one was [Alexei A.] Leonov, who did the first spacewalk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Leonov, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Leonov."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Leonov came out of his hatch and dangled on his umbilical cord. So, a fellow named Harold [I.] Johnson that worked—you might have heard his name. Harold Johnson thought, “Gosh, we can do better than that.” And we were only weeks behind the—Leonov being the first EVA. So, within weeks, he came over. We quickly built a handheld maneuvering unit—totally built in our shop. It had nitrogen bottles with compressed air—compressed nitrogen in it in a tube. And then it had some little wings, tubular wings that would hinge out, and they had nozzles on their ends. And it had a hand control that moved—that moved up and down. And we fixed that up for Ed [Edward H.] White [II].\\n\\n And Ed White got outside of his hatch. He went outside and opened up the wings on this maneuvering unit, and he motored around—forward, backward, up, down, and everything—and we were so proud that we Americans had done something meaningful! We gave an astronaut something that he could maneuver with rather than just dangle. So, that’s that story. But that was done in Tech Services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The HHMU. Handheld maneuvering unit."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.778146743731604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Leonov, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Leonov."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Leonov came out of his hatch and dangled on his umbilical cord. So, a fellow named Harold [I.] Johnson that worked—you might have heard his name. Harold Johnson thought, “Gosh, we can do better than that.” And we were only weeks behind the—Leonov being the first EVA. So, within weeks, he came over. We quickly built a handheld maneuvering unit—totally built in our shop. It had nitrogen bottles with compressed air—compressed nitrogen in it in a tube. And then it had some little wings, tubular wings that would hinge out, and they had nozzles on their ends. And it had a hand control that moved—that moved up and down. And we fixed that up for Ed [Edward H.] White [II].\\n\\n And Ed White got outside of his hatch. He went outside and opened up the wings on this maneuvering unit, and he motored around—forward, backward, up, down, and everything—and we were so proud that we Americans had done something meaningful! We gave an astronaut something that he could maneuver with rather than just dangle. So, that’s that story. But that was done in Tech Services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The HHMU. Handheld maneuvering unit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There must’ve been lots of others, dealing with EVAs, like, oh, handholds later on so the astronauts could figure out how to maintain a work status in space."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.479193510779755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There must’ve been lots of others, dealing with EVAs, like, oh, handholds later on so the astronauts could figure out how to maintain a work status in space."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, there were. Even after I retired in ’77, I had contact still with some of the contract engineers with Rockwell [International Corp.]. And they’d call me once in a while and ask—I had a machine shop in my—in my garage, a real minimum one but a shop! Once a machinist, always one. And I got a subcontract arrangement so that I could do work and be paid by the contractor on occasion. And one occasion was the—on the Shuttle.\\n\\n They realized that the way the Shuttle was coupled together they had the doors, the hatches that opened, they were entirely latched together with one continuous group of rods, interconnecting, so that they would all do the same thing together. You know, the latches that lift them? Well, they got thinking about this. “What if those things hang up? What if they open the hatch and it won’t close? That would be the end of the Shuttle right there.” So, are we doing okay?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I’m—don’t you worry about the time. That’s my job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll worry about it. You worry about just telling me a story."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.643548345310837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, there were. Even after I retired in ’77, I had contact still with some of the contract engineers with Rockwell [International Corp.]. And they’d call me once in a while and ask—I had a machine shop in my—in my garage, a real minimum one but a shop! Once a machinist, always one. And I got a subcontract arrangement so that I could do work and be paid by the contractor on occasion. And one occasion was the—on the Shuttle.\\n\\n They realized that the way the Shuttle was coupled together they had the doors, the hatches that opened, they were entirely latched together with one continuous group of rods, interconnecting, so that they would all do the same thing together. You know, the latches that lift them? Well, they got thinking about this. “What if those things hang up? What if they open the hatch and it won’t close? That would be the end of the Shuttle right there.” So, are we doing okay?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I’m—don’t you worry about the time. That’s my job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll worry about it. You worry about just telling me a story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok. Well, we drifted about a bit. But this is a good—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it’s a good one. A darn good one."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.82616482812315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll worry about it. You worry about just telling me a story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok. Well, we drifted about a bit. But this is a good—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it’s a good one. A darn good one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—I’m retired, and they come by and call and say, “Do you suppose you could think of some way we could change this, disconnect this continuous linkage in some fashion, so that it wouldn’t be as likely to lock up the whole system? You know, we’d operate more freely. And then we need some tools in which to do that.” So, I built a lot of tools that were—I designed the tools, actually, with a sketch from an engineer saying, “I need something that can reach around this far and get a hold of a linkage and be able to maneuver it, you know, by frictional grip.” So, I actually designed (just paper design) some latching separating devices, which they took over to the Johnson Center and ran tests on them. And they adopted that scheme of things. So, then they wound up making all the hatch doors so that they could be safely operated without jamming, without the entire system jamming. So, that’s a case where I wasn’t even working at Johnson Center. I was retired!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was later on."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.251294253470167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok. Well, we drifted about a bit. But this is a good—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it’s a good one. A darn good one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—I’m retired, and they come by and call and say, “Do you suppose you could think of some way we could change this, disconnect this continuous linkage in some fashion, so that it wouldn’t be as likely to lock up the whole system? You know, we’d operate more freely. And then we need some tools in which to do that.” So, I built a lot of tools that were—I designed the tools, actually, with a sketch from an engineer saying, “I need something that can reach around this far and get a hold of a linkage and be able to maneuver it, you know, by frictional grip.” So, I actually designed (just paper design) some latching separating devices, which they took over to the Johnson Center and ran tests on them. And they adopted that scheme of things. So, then they wound up making all the hatch doors so that they could be safely operated without jamming, without the entire system jamming. So, that’s a case where I wasn’t even working at Johnson Center. I was retired!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was later on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, during that time, though, I—you people did the plaque on the Eagle, didn’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.945882503855742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—I’m retired, and they come by and call and say, “Do you suppose you could think of some way we could change this, disconnect this continuous linkage in some fashion, so that it wouldn’t be as likely to lock up the whole system? You know, we’d operate more freely. And then we need some tools in which to do that.” So, I built a lot of tools that were—I designed the tools, actually, with a sketch from an engineer saying, “I need something that can reach around this far and get a hold of a linkage and be able to maneuver it, you know, by frictional grip.” So, I actually designed (just paper design) some latching separating devices, which they took over to the Johnson Center and ran tests on them. And they adopted that scheme of things. So, then they wound up making all the hatch doors so that they could be safely operated without jamming, without the entire system jamming. So, that’s a case where I wasn’t even working at Johnson Center. I was retired!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was later on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, during that time, though, I—you people did the plaque on the Eagle, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made—how did that happen?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.051707063380821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Richard—N—M—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "M. Milhouse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—Richard Milhouse—Richard M. Nixon. But the first time he had it just “Richard Nixon.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your—in this case the mother’s signature correct—the correct one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes! That was—the one the mother—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The one they sent you was the wrong one."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.200303245407748, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which he did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think he carried it through to the logical conclusion, don’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those were incredible times. Now once they had made the lunar landing (let me see where we are for time; yeah, we’re getting pretty close to a reload time here, but we still have a little left on this tape I believe)."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.000336939341942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think he carried it through to the logical conclusion, don’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those were incredible times. Now once they had made the lunar landing (let me see where we are for time; yeah, we’re getting pretty close to a reload time here, but we still have a little left on this tape I believe)."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once they had made the lunar landing, there were more things that were needed for the Apollo Program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.88926326593549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those were incredible times. Now once they had made the lunar landing (let me see where we are for time; yeah, we’re getting pretty close to a reload time here, but we still have a little left on this tape I believe)."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once they had made the lunar landing, there were more things that were needed for the Apollo Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with those?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.543625851039433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once they had made the lunar landing, there were more things that were needed for the Apollo Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had occasion, in house, to build all the geological tools. Everything that was used to—including the shovels, the hammers, the devices that all went together to become a lunar tool kit. And initially, they hand-carried it as they went along on Apollo 11. But eventually—and another thing happened. The rover was so late in development, it was not going to be available for two or three Moon landings. So, they had to get something to use to do their tour, you know; to go about and gather rocks. So, we built every one of the lunar tool carrier objects in our shops at JSC. And then a little later on, we made up a hand-wheeled dolly that Al [Alan B.] Shepard [Jr.] thought he’d like to have; and that was something he could put the hand-carry dolly on in a converted way and walk along like you do [with] a golf cart tote. And we made that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help him make his golf club out of existing hardware?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.270695390043815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had occasion, in house, to build all the geological tools. Everything that was used to—including the shovels, the hammers, the devices that all went together to become a lunar tool kit. And initially, they hand-carried it as they went along on Apollo 11. But eventually—and another thing happened. The rover was so late in development, it was not going to be available for two or three Moon landings. So, they had to get something to use to do their tour, you know; to go about and gather rocks. So, we built every one of the lunar tool carrier objects in our shops at JSC. And then a little later on, we made up a hand-wheeled dolly that Al [Alan B.] Shepard [Jr.] thought he’d like to have; and that was something he could put the hand-carry dolly on in a converted way and walk along like you do [with] a golf cart tote. And we made that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help him make his golf club out of existing hardware?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I have to explain that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.078550433382016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had occasion, in house, to build all the geological tools. Everything that was used to—including the shovels, the hammers, the devices that all went together to become a lunar tool kit. And initially, they hand-carried it as they went along on Apollo 11. But eventually—and another thing happened. The rover was so late in development, it was not going to be available for two or three Moon landings. So, they had to get something to use to do their tour, you know; to go about and gather rocks. So, we built every one of the lunar tool carrier objects in our shops at JSC. And then a little later on, we made up a hand-wheeled dolly that Al [Alan B.] Shepard [Jr.] thought he’d like to have; and that was something he could put the hand-carry dolly on in a converted way and walk along like you do [with] a golf cart tote. And we made that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help him make his golf club out of existing hardware?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I have to explain that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always using simple ideas, he came in one day and he approached us about making a—not the whole club but just the club head for something he could use. And he said, “You know, you have—we have all these handles that have shovels on the ends and they have quick disconnects on them and so on. Suppose you could make a club head that would snap right on the same fitting that is the end of one of the shovel handle things,” which made him a complete golf club. So, we built that little device for him, and he took it in his PPK kit (which is pilot’s preference kit; they’re allowed to have so many pounds of their own things). And I don’t know whether he told management about it or not. I never did hear whether he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He told me, very specifically, that he had a special arrangement with Jim [NASA Administrator James E.] Webb."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.97616714820224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I have to explain that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always using simple ideas, he came in one day and he approached us about making a—not the whole club but just the club head for something he could use. And he said, “You know, you have—we have all these handles that have shovels on the ends and they have quick disconnects on them and so on. Suppose you could make a club head that would snap right on the same fitting that is the end of one of the shovel handle things,” which made him a complete golf club. So, we built that little device for him, and he took it in his PPK kit (which is pilot’s preference kit; they’re allowed to have so many pounds of their own things). And I don’t know whether he told management about it or not. I never did hear whether he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He told me, very specifically, that he had a special arrangement with Jim [NASA Administrator James E.] Webb."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the arrangement was very simple: If the flight was going well and there were no problems, he was able to make the golf club use."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.081687837286715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the arrangement was very simple: If the flight was going well and there were no problems, he was able to make the golf club use."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Otherwise, no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don’t do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. And so obviously the flight went very well and he was able to use it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.312986485874127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Otherwise, no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don’t do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. And so obviously the flight went very well and he was able to use it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It went well. He did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He did have management permission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.681096095415697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don’t do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. And so obviously the flight went very well and he was able to use it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It went well. He did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He did have management permission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but that’s how we pulled it off. In other words, he didn’t have to have anything except that little club headpiece, you know. And it was made to a perfect fit, so it was like a set of snap-on tools that have ratchets and you can plug them in, you know. It was very simple. But that did happen. We built that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the lunar rover? Did you have anything to do with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.201217883795218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It went well. He did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He did have management permission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but that’s how we pulled it off. In other words, he didn’t have to have anything except that little club headpiece, you know. And it was made to a perfect fit, so it was like a set of snap-on tools that have ratchets and you can plug them in, you know. It was very simple. But that did happen. We built that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the lunar rover? Did you have anything to do with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not the rover, except we built models of the rover for (I guess) demonstration and determination of design and that sort of thing. But it came in pretty much as an outside developed device as far as I know. But we did not do too much with the rover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, we’ve talked pretty much about a lot of the things that you came up with that I’ve generated for you. Is there something in particular with that Apollo series of ingenuity-made devices of which you’re particularly proud?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.890242093105797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but that’s how we pulled it off. In other words, he didn’t have to have anything except that little club headpiece, you know. And it was made to a perfect fit, so it was like a set of snap-on tools that have ratchets and you can plug them in, you know. It was very simple. But that did happen. We built that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the lunar rover? Did you have anything to do with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not the rover, except we built models of the rover for (I guess) demonstration and determination of design and that sort of thing. But it came in pretty much as an outside developed device as far as I know. But we did not do too much with the rover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, we’ve talked pretty much about a lot of the things that you came up with that I’ve generated for you. Is there something in particular with that Apollo series of ingenuity-made devices of which you’re particularly proud?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go ahead. Tell me about it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.766935659006442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not the rover, except we built models of the rover for (I guess) demonstration and determination of design and that sort of thing. But it came in pretty much as an outside developed device as far as I know. But we did not do too much with the rover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, we’ve talked pretty much about a lot of the things that you came up with that I’ve generated for you. Is there something in particular with that Apollo series of ingenuity-made devices of which you’re particularly proud?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go ahead. Tell me about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one is (I don’t know which one’s the best; there’s two)—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ve got time here. Tell us about both of them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 20.85215073222938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go ahead. Tell me about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one is (I don’t know which one’s the best; there’s two)—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ve got time here. Tell us about both of them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do we have time for both of them?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll make time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.504611332020797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was North American. He called Harrison Storms and said, “I’ve had Mr. Kinzler out here looking around your plant. And he’s written up a rather lengthy report. I’d like to send it to you and see if you’ll agree that maybe some action is needed.” So, he sent the whole thing out! I got the word back that Harrison Storm called all his shops people in—he had everybody involved—and he laid down the law and said, “I want every one of these points straightened out,” you know, “in nothing flat.” So, that did happen. How’d you hear about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, [North American President J.] Lee [Leland] Atwood was a very good friend of mine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this—the story of Harrison Storms, incidentally—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m glad you brought it up because—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—who lost his job in the process, as you know, a little later."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.671790368911998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this—the story of Harrison Storms, incidentally—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m glad you brought it up because—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—who lost his job in the process, as you know, a little later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yes, I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, no. That was—what you did, of course, was very popular with NASA."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.968655965457774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m glad you brought it up because—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—who lost his job in the process, as you know, a little later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yes, I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, no. That was—what you did, of course, was very popular with NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very unpopular with North American."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.409617739397527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yes, I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, no. That was—what you did, of course, was very popular with NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very unpopular with North American."}, {"role": "user", "content": "North American!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was something that had to be, wasn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.010686377108364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very unpopular with North American."}, {"role": "user", "content": "North American!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was something that had to be, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You really—somebody had to go out there and say, “Hey, you’re not doing this right.”"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.789651530120405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "North American!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was something that had to be, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You really—somebody had to go out there and say, “Hey, you’re not doing this right.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But was that really what caused the fire, do you think? Because they weren’t doing things right? Or was it just one thing led to another, and—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.76627947791156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You really—somebody had to go out there and say, “Hey, you’re not doing this right.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But was that really what caused the fire, do you think? Because they weren’t doing things right? Or was it just one thing led to another, and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as you recall, I went out also and I climbed up in their capsule they were—the next one they were building. In that one, you could see wiring laying on the floor right where you’d walk and stumble over it. You know, basic, finished wiring. And our shops at their—somebody else’s direction (there was a project engineer into this), but we made all sorts of sheet metal covers that could be put over clusters of wiring. And the outcome of that was a design change on how wiring would be carried—conducted through the spacecraft. So, we had something to do with that. The Tech Service Division made prototype boxes [of] different sizes and zip lids on them and everything else. They had fun doing that! I’d carry all these boxes out and say, “This is what you guys need here.” You know. In other words, we put it to them in that case. And they did. They changed the—they made covers for everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the facts of life are such that following the Apollo 1 fire, there were no more breakdowns of that kind, even though there was Apollo 13."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.962532753235067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But was that really what caused the fire, do you think? Because they weren’t doing things right? Or was it just one thing led to another, and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as you recall, I went out also and I climbed up in their capsule they were—the next one they were building. In that one, you could see wiring laying on the floor right where you’d walk and stumble over it. You know, basic, finished wiring. And our shops at their—somebody else’s direction (there was a project engineer into this), but we made all sorts of sheet metal covers that could be put over clusters of wiring. And the outcome of that was a design change on how wiring would be carried—conducted through the spacecraft. So, we had something to do with that. The Tech Service Division made prototype boxes [of] different sizes and zip lids on them and everything else. They had fun doing that! I’d carry all these boxes out and say, “This is what you guys need here.” You know. In other words, we put it to them in that case. And they did. They changed the—they made covers for everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the facts of life are such that following the Apollo 1 fire, there were no more breakdowns of that kind, even though there was Apollo 13."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You and your gang must’ve had a fantastic time with Apollo 13, or did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.11423796695687, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You and your gang must’ve had a fantastic time with Apollo 13, or did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It was kind of quiet for us. It—the crew themselves, you know, did a lot to figure out what they had to do to save themselves. The flight crew. Now the support people on—in the JSC mostly were out of the flight operations end of it, where they have procedures to write and all that. And it turned out that we didn’t have much to do with Apollo 13 fixes. They pulled up some cardboard boxes, you know, to make simulated adapters for transferring oxygen from the lunar module over to the command module. All those innovations happened outside of the purview of our Division. It just happened that they were able to do it without us. They didn’t need too much made for the fix for Apollo 13. Just—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through the latter end of Apollo—the Apollo Program, then, had you done your job well enough that you could start to look to future things like Skylab or Apollo-Soyuz? Was it the time for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It was time for Skylab and the most exciting time of my life, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, around NASA they call you “the man who saved Skylab,” and it’s [i.e., Skylab’s] right over your shoulder right now in its fixed configuration."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.126931074396524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It was kind of quiet for us. It—the crew themselves, you know, did a lot to figure out what they had to do to save themselves. The flight crew. Now the support people on—in the JSC mostly were out of the flight operations end of it, where they have procedures to write and all that. And it turned out that we didn’t have much to do with Apollo 13 fixes. They pulled up some cardboard boxes, you know, to make simulated adapters for transferring oxygen from the lunar module over to the command module. All those innovations happened outside of the purview of our Division. It just happened that they were able to do it without us. They didn’t need too much made for the fix for Apollo 13. Just—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through the latter end of Apollo—the Apollo Program, then, had you done your job well enough that you could start to look to future things like Skylab or Apollo-Soyuz? Was it the time for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It was time for Skylab and the most exciting time of my life, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, around NASA they call you “the man who saved Skylab,” and it’s [i.e., Skylab’s] right over your shoulder right now in its fixed configuration."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, for goodness sakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, let’s talk Skylab."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 33.47436786044058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It was time for Skylab and the most exciting time of my life, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, around NASA they call you “the man who saved Skylab,” and it’s [i.e., Skylab’s] right over your shoulder right now in its fixed configuration."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, for goodness sakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, let’s talk Skylab."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s move into that arena."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.493129184907067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you when he actually made the deployment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your emotions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—okay. A very good question. And I’ll leave these out until you’ve asked them. I was asked to go over and stand by at Mission Control during the deployment phase. And sure enough, I was there; and they started the deployment in daylight, and as the spacecraft was moving towards darkness they had not completed the deployment. So, the question came up, “What will happen to your fabric if it’s in the night phase and it gets stiff and cold?” You know, there’s –200°F versus +200°F in a day and night cycle. So, they asked my opinion and I said, “Why don’t we stop right where we are?” They had it partway out. And they’d just stop and wait.\\n\\n So, sure enough, they waited until they moved around to the daylight cycle (I think it was about another half-hour or so, as I recall), and they continued deployment. And when they did deploy, it came out very nicely with one exception: it had a little kind of a twist—a little kink in one corner that didn’t affect the coverage. It was big enough to cover. But I was there, in the Mission Control, at the deployment phase, with Pete up there busily doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were there perspiring freely, I would imagine."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.992365761007852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your emotions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—okay. A very good question. And I’ll leave these out until you’ve asked them. I was asked to go over and stand by at Mission Control during the deployment phase. And sure enough, I was there; and they started the deployment in daylight, and as the spacecraft was moving towards darkness they had not completed the deployment. So, the question came up, “What will happen to your fabric if it’s in the night phase and it gets stiff and cold?” You know, there’s –200°F versus +200°F in a day and night cycle. So, they asked my opinion and I said, “Why don’t we stop right where we are?” They had it partway out. And they’d just stop and wait.\\n\\n So, sure enough, they waited until they moved around to the daylight cycle (I think it was about another half-hour or so, as I recall), and they continued deployment. And when they did deploy, it came out very nicely with one exception: it had a little kind of a twist—a little kink in one corner that didn’t affect the coverage. It was big enough to cover. But I was there, in the Mission Control, at the deployment phase, with Pete up there busily doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were there perspiring freely, I would imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes! Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you know, that was one of the real highlights of your career."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 16.658184178897613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—okay. A very good question. And I’ll leave these out until you’ve asked them. I was asked to go over and stand by at Mission Control during the deployment phase. And sure enough, I was there; and they started the deployment in daylight, and as the spacecraft was moving towards darkness they had not completed the deployment. So, the question came up, “What will happen to your fabric if it’s in the night phase and it gets stiff and cold?” You know, there’s –200°F versus +200°F in a day and night cycle. So, they asked my opinion and I said, “Why don’t we stop right where we are?” They had it partway out. And they’d just stop and wait.\\n\\n So, sure enough, they waited until they moved around to the daylight cycle (I think it was about another half-hour or so, as I recall), and they continued deployment. And when they did deploy, it came out very nicely with one exception: it had a little kind of a twist—a little kink in one corner that didn’t affect the coverage. It was big enough to cover. But I was there, in the Mission Control, at the deployment phase, with Pete up there busily doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were there perspiring freely, I would imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes! Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you know, that was one of the real highlights of your career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What happened after that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 14.720597742566088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Still am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Retired but following a path."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As are all of us I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh,yes!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you know, in checking out your bio I found a lot of references to your work in finding and training people to go to work in the space program. Can you tell us about the recruiting and the training phases in your career?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.719094257835827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say: First, read as much as you can about what NASA is and what they do. The libraries have endless information. NASA has lots of free information. I know the teachers take NASA information home to their classes. So, the first thing would be to become informed in what NASA’s done or [is] doing presently. Then the other thing is to consider going to night school, if you’re already working somewhere at a grocery or something. Go to night school on your own, and a junior college is very helpful. They have courses where you can learn. The target should be to become a qualified technician. Not necessarily move all the way into engineering. That’s desirable, and a lot of technicians later—some of mine, by the way, have gone on with additional college time and gotten their engineering degrees. But what we need in the country, we need badly highly skilled technicians. And you see that in the automobile business or just about everywhere. Air conditioning. So, my suggestion to young people is: become familiar with what NASA’s doing, and then ask them. They’ll tell you what courses to follow. And if you just do a little bit, show a little bit of energy of your own, commit yourself, you’ll be fine. That’s about the best way I can put it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I promised you the opportunity to come back to that thing that you couldn’t quite remember when we were talking about—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I’m just—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—achievements that you were particularly proud of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Now, I talked about the SLA cutter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you did."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.687882508706474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I’m just—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—achievements that you were particularly proud of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Now, I talked about the SLA cutter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the Shuttle. What else did we do with Shuttle? It’s strange how it would escape me, because it’s a major one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this was Apollo."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.960348776180831, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the Shuttle. What else did we do with Shuttle? It’s strange how it would escape me, because it’s a major one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this was Apollo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s terrible. It has to drift for a while. Maybe it’ll come back in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The senior moments."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.289276417978702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s terrible. It has to drift for a while. Maybe it’ll come back in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The senior moments."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That’s what it is. I’m glad you appreciate that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do, indeed. Well, I’ll allow you to slide into it in this case—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.765862686643002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s terrible. It has to drift for a while. Maybe it’ll come back in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The senior moments."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That’s what it is. I’m glad you appreciate that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do, indeed. Well, I’ll allow you to slide into it in this case—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—by saying: where (as you look back over your career)—where do you see the real highlights within that career as the nation slowly but surely moved into space? You saw it all, Jack."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 16.40651409627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That’s what it is. I’m glad you appreciate that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do, indeed. Well, I’ll allow you to slide into it in this case—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—by saying: where (as you look back over your career)—where do you see the real highlights within that career as the nation slowly but surely moved into space? You saw it all, Jack."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what stands out in your memory, if any single or combination of things?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.562793440300002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—by saying: where (as you look back over your career)—where do you see the real highlights within that career as the nation slowly but surely moved into space? You saw it all, Jack."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what stands out in your memory, if any single or combination of things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the first: Alan Shepard’s flight was pretty darn important. We took our first man and shot him up on a rocket! And I stood outside the launch pad. In those days, we were allowed to actually go out of the blockhouse and stand within 200 yards of the Redstone on which Al Shepard was sitting and watch him take off. So, that’s pretty primitive, but that’s—I have memories of that. I’ll never forget that. But that’s just the first thing.\\n\\n As time went on, when we came into Apollo, I guess my fondest memory is that I had the opportunity with the symbolic committee to make recommendations for both a plaque and a flag. And then I got action items to personally, you know—to do those. I’ll never forget those meetings, because I was sitting in an office with the top dignitaries of NASA who said, “Can you tell us what we ought to do?” And I did! It was kind of brash in a way! But they bought it, you know, 100%. They didn’t add anything else. Nothing else. So, that was a highlight. After that, throughout Apollo, I did talk about how we did the SLA cutter. Oh, I mentioned about repairing the hatch door on the Mercury (that’s one). There’s a big one, but it’s sleeping behind me somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s still—you’ll remember it tomorrow—I'm sure, Jack."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.847548267000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what stands out in your memory, if any single or combination of things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the first: Alan Shepard’s flight was pretty darn important. We took our first man and shot him up on a rocket! And I stood outside the launch pad. In those days, we were allowed to actually go out of the blockhouse and stand within 200 yards of the Redstone on which Al Shepard was sitting and watch him take off. So, that’s pretty primitive, but that’s—I have memories of that. I’ll never forget that. But that’s just the first thing.\\n\\n As time went on, when we came into Apollo, I guess my fondest memory is that I had the opportunity with the symbolic committee to make recommendations for both a plaque and a flag. And then I got action items to personally, you know—to do those. I’ll never forget those meetings, because I was sitting in an office with the top dignitaries of NASA who said, “Can you tell us what we ought to do?” And I did! It was kind of brash in a way! But they bought it, you know, 100%. They didn’t add anything else. Nothing else. So, that was a highlight. After that, throughout Apollo, I did talk about how we did the SLA cutter. Oh, I mentioned about repairing the hatch door on the Mercury (that’s one). There’s a big one, but it’s sleeping behind me somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s still—you’ll remember it tomorrow—I'm sure, Jack."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Good heavens! How could I forget it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, a couple of final questions then, if I may."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.275053630000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the first: Alan Shepard’s flight was pretty darn important. We took our first man and shot him up on a rocket! And I stood outside the launch pad. In those days, we were allowed to actually go out of the blockhouse and stand within 200 yards of the Redstone on which Al Shepard was sitting and watch him take off. So, that’s pretty primitive, but that’s—I have memories of that. I’ll never forget that. But that’s just the first thing.\\n\\n As time went on, when we came into Apollo, I guess my fondest memory is that I had the opportunity with the symbolic committee to make recommendations for both a plaque and a flag. And then I got action items to personally, you know—to do those. I’ll never forget those meetings, because I was sitting in an office with the top dignitaries of NASA who said, “Can you tell us what we ought to do?” And I did! It was kind of brash in a way! But they bought it, you know, 100%. They didn’t add anything else. Nothing else. So, that was a highlight. After that, throughout Apollo, I did talk about how we did the SLA cutter. Oh, I mentioned about repairing the hatch door on the Mercury (that’s one). There’s a big one, but it’s sleeping behind me somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s still—you’ll remember it tomorrow—I'm sure, Jack."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Good heavens! How could I forget it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, a couple of final questions then, if I may."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If it does come to your mind, you just feel free to pop it right up anytime."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.861170700000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Good heavens! How could I forget it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, a couple of final questions then, if I may."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If it does come to your mind, you just feel free to pop it right up anytime."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First of all, you stayed, obviously, tremendously interested in the space program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.623523000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If it does come to your mind, you just feel free to pop it right up anytime."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First of all, you stayed, obviously, tremendously interested in the space program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I still follow it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think of the way the Station and the world are going in space? Do you think they’re moving in a good direction?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.35947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First of all, you stayed, obviously, tremendously interested in the space program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I still follow it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think of the way the Station and the world are going in space? Do you think they’re moving in a good direction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. But I’m disappointed we haven’t planned to go back to the Moon. There’s no reason why we didn’t add a return to the Moon program and then use some development of living on the Moon. In other words, using, you know—building buildings that would support people and maybe excavating, trying to find water sources, and different things. So, I think we kind of gave up too quickly on the Moon, personally. The other thing I feel is that: I have no doubt—I am positive—we’re going to go to Mars. And I’m so thrilled that today I read about a way to do it in—by—in 17 years’ time. I may live that long! I don’t know. But—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ll never know."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.2883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I still follow it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think of the way the Station and the world are going in space? Do you think they’re moving in a good direction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. But I’m disappointed we haven’t planned to go back to the Moon. There’s no reason why we didn’t add a return to the Moon program and then use some development of living on the Moon. In other words, using, you know—building buildings that would support people and maybe excavating, trying to find water sources, and different things. So, I think we kind of gave up too quickly on the Moon, personally. The other thing I feel is that: I have no doubt—I am positive—we’re going to go to Mars. And I’m so thrilled that today I read about a way to do it in—by—in 17 years’ time. I may live that long! I don’t know. But—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ll never know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, in other words, we haven’t quit looking out into space and trying to understand space. And the more we do that, the more our religion and everything else fits in. I mean, we have to believe in the Creator and the heavens being omnipotent. And there’s just something bigger than mankind alone, so I’m very supportive of way-out thinking when it comes to “Will we find civilization elsewhere?” and things of that kind. I can’t guarantee any of it. But I can sure believe in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, Jack Kinzler, you’ve been kind enough to let me guide you with my questions for the last couple of hours. I’d like to give you the opportunity now to say anything that you’d like. Anything that I didn’t think to ask—anything that you feel about all of the things we’ve been talking about here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "X-38? I’m impressed that something has happened! Believe me, years have gone by, 20 years have gone by, Tech Service’s shops haven’t built anything significant like an original device like the X-38—until now. They are doing it—I guess they’ve got enough trained people that they can do something like that once again. But they’re all, most of them are contract people. So, it’s a—it’s kind of a contrast. I’m talking about it, against it, and yet I’m saying, “Hey, they’re finally making it work!” But it took them a long time!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve given us a lot of lessons from the past."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh dear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I guess that’s really what you’re preaching right now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am. I’m stating that the original days of the Space Task Group were unbelievable in that we gave the opportunity to everyone in the Task Group to just go ahead and take charge and do what you need to do. And we’ll back you! We’ll just let you go. And I went out and found buildings to rent. I ordered machine tools in the millions of dollars. I never talked about Gilruth about what I was doing. I just had the go-ahead.\\n\\n Now he certainly monitored and knew I was doing the proper things. But I was not alone. People like (well, I don’t know who to describe next), but I think, well, about Caldwell, you know. He was a fellow with a lot of capability, and he did a tremendous amount to help develop the design of the Mercury capsule. And yet he’s just one of us guys, you know, that did it. And I can’t think of that other—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you still can’t think of that one major thing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00326:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh dear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I guess that’s really what you’re preaching right now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am. I’m stating that the original days of the Space Task Group were unbelievable in that we gave the opportunity to everyone in the Task Group to just go ahead and take charge and do what you need to do. And we’ll back you! We’ll just let you go. And I went out and found buildings to rent. I ordered machine tools in the millions of dollars. I never talked about Gilruth about what I was doing. I just had the go-ahead.\\n\\n Now he certainly monitored and knew I was doing the proper things. But I was not alone. People like (well, I don’t know who to describe next), but I think, well, about Caldwell, you know. He was a fellow with a lot of capability, and he did a tremendous amount to help develop the design of the Mercury capsule. And yet he’s just one of us guys, you know, that did it. And I can’t think of that other—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you still can’t think of that one major thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The Apollo. The Apollo thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, actually, I think we’ve pretty well covered all the bases. If you’re happy with where we’ve gone, where—what you’ve covered, I am, too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.855726292553356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We prepare for hurricanes every year, so we have a hurricane plan across the Center, and we generally have an exercise, the senior staff, about responding to a hurricane. Then more of our emergency ops folks do a more extensive exercise every year. We had already done that. We do that so that it’s complete by the time hurricane season starts. Really the planning is more or less done ahead of time in terms of what people need to do.\\n\\n Any time a storm comes up, you have to look at what are the particulars of that storm. For example, in this one, it wasn’t anticipated that we were going to get high winds, and we did not. Because of that, we weren’t as concerned about things like losing power or about needing to make sure that people were not on site.\\n\\n For example, we did not activate our backup MCC [Mission Control Center]. We continued to operate our MCC here, realizing that probably the biggest issue was going to be the ability of people to get on and off site, which was exactly the biggest issue. When people came on site, especially Saturday, they came with the idea of, “I may not be able to leave.” They brought changes of clothing, and they brought something to sleep [in], and that turned out to be really good, because we did need to use that.\\n\\n Certainly the flooding was more extensive than people thought a day or two ahead of time. Some of our folks that work in Mission Control were planning to use astronaut crew quarters to sleep, then just go back over to the other building, [Building 30]. But you couldn’t really get between those buildings at the height of the storm, so people just camped out in MCC, never really left the building at all, and were using air mattresses in one of the other Mission Control rooms. But we never had any issue in terms of power or systems working."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you here in Houston as preparations were ongoing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You obviously were not with the ride-out team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were at your home."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 44.28414032505928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You obviously were not with the ride-out team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were at your home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often were you in touch with the team? What were they sharing with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 35.87126702784364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were at your home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often were you in touch with the team? What were they sharing with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a senior staff, we have two phone calls a day. We can do up to four. We plan 10:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m., and if needed 10:00 p.m. and 4:00 a.m., which we really didn’t need to do. We did end up shifting the time a little bit. After about four [or] five days we ended up going to once a day at 8:00 in the morning, and that’s because people wanted, at that point, to start helping people recover. They were going to be going out to people’s houses, and 10:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. wasn’t a good time to call, because they were already away from their homes.\\n\\n When nobody was going anywhere, that was good, and then of course there were e-mails in between if there were things that came up, and Joel [B.] Walker was posting on JSC SOS [JSC Emergency Management website], so senior staff could see it, and of course anybody else could see that. I signed up for the texts as well, so any time there’s a message that goes out I could see that. There were some that did go out in the middle of the night, “We’re closing Gate 1 because we’ve got to bring the guards inside,” and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the big issues that you talked about during that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.052380777082213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine you were communicating quite a bit with the Acting Administrator [Robert M. Lightfoot] as well about what was going on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. After we’d do at least one of our daily phone calls, I would usually send him a note, just giving him a summary of what was going on on site so he’d be up to speed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you also talking about what was happening with employees? At that point did you have a sense of what might be happening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initially we were trying to get accountability of all of our employees, and that was one of our highest priorities. When we got to that point certainly let him know that, so that he at least knew the situation. It was a little hard to get actual numbers of people whose homes had flooded, but we knew there were lots of cases of that, so [I] just tried to let him know, “Yes, we have a number of employees, contractor and civil servant, whose homes are flooded and who were rescued by boat,” and that we were trying to follow up on that. But at least let him know that we had at least accounted for all of our employees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you account for them? I think after Ike there was a big push [for a new emergency management system]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 32.2804230856469, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. After we’d do at least one of our daily phone calls, I would usually send him a note, just giving him a summary of what was going on on site so he’d be up to speed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you also talking about what was happening with employees? At that point did you have a sense of what might be happening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initially we were trying to get accountability of all of our employees, and that was one of our highest priorities. When we got to that point certainly let him know that, so that he at least knew the situation. It was a little hard to get actual numbers of people whose homes had flooded, but we knew there were lots of cases of that, so [I] just tried to let him know, “Yes, we have a number of employees, contractor and civil servant, whose homes are flooded and who were rescued by boat,” and that we were trying to follow up on that. But at least let him know that we had at least accounted for all of our employees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you account for them? I think after Ike there was a big push [for a new emergency management system]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Every organization has their—it’s either an e-mail tree or a phone tree that ends up reaching out to all the civil servants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was the first time you had a chance to finally come back on site? What are your memories of what you saw at the different locations?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.353859004723164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about the amount of damage that JSC sustained and really what the cost will be and how that will impact the budget?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said, lots of roof leaks, and therefore damage inside. Whether it was an office or some other type of room where the roof was leaking, quite a bit of it was associated with that.\\n\\n We’ve let [NASA] Headquarters know what we think the right amount of money is to recover from that. It includes both what we spend on repairs as well as a couple larger buildings that we think actually need new roofs, so that if you would have another rain event you would feel a lot better that you would not have these leaks. You have to separate those things. We provide estimates of that to Headquarters, and then they work it through the legislative process. There’s nothing yet that’s been allocated to NASA or as far as I know actually any damage to any federal facility. All of the moneys that Congress has designated so far have been directly to FEMA [Federal Emergency Management Agency]. We hope in a future allocation that there will be some for repairing federal facilities.\\n\\n In the meantime, of course, we’ve made the repairs that we need to. They get it back to a safe configuration. What they don’t do is necessarily protect you for the next time you have a big rain event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This money then comes out of the M&O [Maintenance and Operations] budget?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the M&O."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How will you balance that with the Center’s needs?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.83762111635907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said, lots of roof leaks, and therefore damage inside. Whether it was an office or some other type of room where the roof was leaking, quite a bit of it was associated with that.\\n\\n We’ve let [NASA] Headquarters know what we think the right amount of money is to recover from that. It includes both what we spend on repairs as well as a couple larger buildings that we think actually need new roofs, so that if you would have another rain event you would feel a lot better that you would not have these leaks. You have to separate those things. We provide estimates of that to Headquarters, and then they work it through the legislative process. There’s nothing yet that’s been allocated to NASA or as far as I know actually any damage to any federal facility. All of the moneys that Congress has designated so far have been directly to FEMA [Federal Emergency Management Agency]. We hope in a future allocation that there will be some for repairing federal facilities.\\n\\n In the meantime, of course, we’ve made the repairs that we need to. They get it back to a safe configuration. What they don’t do is necessarily protect you for the next time you have a big rain event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This money then comes out of the M&O [Maintenance and Operations] budget?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the M&O."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How will you balance that with the Center’s needs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other work that was going to go on, other maintenance work or other preventive maintenance, that falls by the wayside, because obviously you’ve put a premium on doing this work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was at a meeting the other day, and they mentioned some of the demos they planned to do they weren’t sure if there would be funding available. I presume that’s where the money came from."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.48624568484341, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the M&O."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How will you balance that with the Center’s needs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other work that was going to go on, other maintenance work or other preventive maintenance, that falls by the wayside, because obviously you’ve put a premium on doing this work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was at a meeting the other day, and they mentioned some of the demos they planned to do they weren’t sure if there would be funding available. I presume that’s where the money came from."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know if it was specifically that account or not. But yes, at a larger sense it’s all the same account."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You and some of the astronaut corps went up to NRG Stadium."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.206939649826012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other work that was going to go on, other maintenance work or other preventive maintenance, that falls by the wayside, because obviously you’ve put a premium on doing this work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was at a meeting the other day, and they mentioned some of the demos they planned to do they weren’t sure if there would be funding available. I presume that’s where the money came from."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know if it was specifically that account or not. But yes, at a larger sense it’s all the same account."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You and some of the astronaut corps went up to NRG Stadium."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NRG Center, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about that and why you thought that was important?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.563266277584457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know if it was specifically that account or not. But yes, at a larger sense it’s all the same account."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You and some of the astronaut corps went up to NRG Stadium."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NRG Center, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about that and why you thought that was important?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. As you were watching the news, there were obviously lots of different efforts to address the morale of people who had been flooded out and were now at some sort of temporary shelter. Of course there was a big one at George R. Brown [Convention Center]. There were so many people going there that they ended up opening this other one at NRG Center that nonprofit BakerRipley was putting in place. I had seen in the news—various sports people had gone there. NASA is part of the community, and astronauts are a visible part of NASA, so it just seemed like it would be a good thing to go see if we could go talk to some of the folks up there, both the people staying at the shelter as well as the volunteers who were there working, or the first responders who were there working.\\n\\n I think we got five of us or so to go up. Was that on Sunday? Either Sunday or Monday. Can’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Trying to remember from the Roundup."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.95918475287162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NRG Center, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about that and why you thought that was important?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. As you were watching the news, there were obviously lots of different efforts to address the morale of people who had been flooded out and were now at some sort of temporary shelter. Of course there was a big one at George R. Brown [Convention Center]. There were so many people going there that they ended up opening this other one at NRG Center that nonprofit BakerRipley was putting in place. I had seen in the news—various sports people had gone there. NASA is part of the community, and astronauts are a visible part of NASA, so it just seemed like it would be a good thing to go see if we could go talk to some of the folks up there, both the people staying at the shelter as well as the volunteers who were there working, or the first responders who were there working.\\n\\n I think we got five of us or so to go up. Was that on Sunday? Either Sunday or Monday. Can’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Trying to remember from the Roundup."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can’t remember which day. It might have been Monday, which was Labor Day. It was either Sunday or Monday. Five of us went up and spent a little bit of time down there. Talked to some of the people who were working there, talked with some of the people who were sheltering there. They had an area for kids who were sheltering there, and so we went and talked to them for a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They probably really enjoyed that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.510205280968465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. As you were watching the news, there were obviously lots of different efforts to address the morale of people who had been flooded out and were now at some sort of temporary shelter. Of course there was a big one at George R. Brown [Convention Center]. There were so many people going there that they ended up opening this other one at NRG Center that nonprofit BakerRipley was putting in place. I had seen in the news—various sports people had gone there. NASA is part of the community, and astronauts are a visible part of NASA, so it just seemed like it would be a good thing to go see if we could go talk to some of the folks up there, both the people staying at the shelter as well as the volunteers who were there working, or the first responders who were there working.\\n\\n I think we got five of us or so to go up. Was that on Sunday? Either Sunday or Monday. Can’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Trying to remember from the Roundup."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can’t remember which day. It might have been Monday, which was Labor Day. It was either Sunday or Monday. Five of us went up and spent a little bit of time down there. Talked to some of the people who were working there, talked with some of the people who were sheltering there. They had an area for kids who were sheltering there, and so we went and talked to them for a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They probably really enjoyed that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think so. One of the other things, you mentioned first responders. I had seen in the Roundup that there were some law enforcement officers that were provided a tour here at JSC."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.122450312187183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can’t remember which day. It might have been Monday, which was Labor Day. It was either Sunday or Monday. Five of us went up and spent a little bit of time down there. Talked to some of the people who were working there, talked with some of the people who were sheltering there. They had an area for kids who were sheltering there, and so we went and talked to them for a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They probably really enjoyed that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think so. One of the other things, you mentioned first responders. I had seen in the Roundup that there were some law enforcement officers that were provided a tour here at JSC."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They were from seven different police departments and sheriff departments from other parts of Texas in addition to here in Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the idea behind that? How did that idea coalesce?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.913833680207983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think so. One of the other things, you mentioned first responders. I had seen in the Roundup that there were some law enforcement officers that were provided a tour here at JSC."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They were from seven different police departments and sheriff departments from other parts of Texas in addition to here in Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the idea behind that? How did that idea coalesce?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually don’t know who was the one that invited them. I think some of our folks who work in our emergency ops probably reached out to them and said, “Hey, since they came here to Houston and helped out Houston, we’d like to offer them a tour.” Of course we’re always happy to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was an event on October 24th. It was the hero of Harvey event, and you gave out ice cream and cookies. I saw a lot of senior staff outside. Would you talk about the idea behind that event?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.793148533564423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They were from seven different police departments and sheriff departments from other parts of Texas in addition to here in Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the idea behind that? How did that idea coalesce?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually don’t know who was the one that invited them. I think some of our folks who work in our emergency ops probably reached out to them and said, “Hey, since they came here to Houston and helped out Houston, we’d like to offer them a tour.” Of course we’re always happy to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was an event on October 24th. It was the hero of Harvey event, and you gave out ice cream and cookies. I saw a lot of senior staff outside. Would you talk about the idea behind that event?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were just trying to figure out how can we help thank folks here at JSC who helped other people in our community here during Harvey and of course in the aftermath of Harvey. So the ice cream was for everybody in the community, but we did try to reach out and make sure that we thanked people who had done certain efforts as well. We had little pins [for the] heroes of Harvey, the Power of One pins. It was just a way of thanking and recognizing folks for pulling together and helping out fellow members of the JSC community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any lessons learned from this event that you would put forward for your future Center directors?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.881276148404915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually don’t know who was the one that invited them. I think some of our folks who work in our emergency ops probably reached out to them and said, “Hey, since they came here to Houston and helped out Houston, we’d like to offer them a tour.” Of course we’re always happy to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was an event on October 24th. It was the hero of Harvey event, and you gave out ice cream and cookies. I saw a lot of senior staff outside. Would you talk about the idea behind that event?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were just trying to figure out how can we help thank folks here at JSC who helped other people in our community here during Harvey and of course in the aftermath of Harvey. So the ice cream was for everybody in the community, but we did try to reach out and make sure that we thanked people who had done certain efforts as well. We had little pins [for the] heroes of Harvey, the Power of One pins. It was just a way of thanking and recognizing folks for pulling together and helping out fellow members of the JSC community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any lessons learned from this event that you would put forward for your future Center directors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh gosh, there’s always lessons learned. I think we came up with a list that we have going forward. But each storm is a little bit different, so what I would say is I don’t think there’s anything big. I think we have an idea of how we need to respond to certain events, but each one is a little bit different. I don’t know that there was anything big, but there’s always little things. “How could we have been a little bit better prepared to put together the work crews?” or something like that. But overall I think we did a fantastic job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought it was interesting because on our contract we were asked to start getting prepared for the event, but I don’t recall that the Center ever moved toward those levels of preparation."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.156757405219363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We ended up, I guess it was Friday afternoon, sort of shutting down. We never really shut down the e-mail system or really said, “Hey, you’re on your own,” simply because we weren’t in a situation [where] we were expecting to lose power or where people were really going to be leaving Houston. They were just leaving the Center to go to their homes in most cases. It was quite a bit different than Ike and when we evacuated for Rita. You’re always trying to make the right call just based on the circumstances.\\n\\n As you know, Houston as a city never evacuated, which would have been a nightmare if you’d tried to do it. You would have just seen thousands of cars swept away, I think. It was really more about hunkering down in your home, and then obviously there were a number of people that had to be rescued. But I don’t know that there was any way to avoid that. We had 43 inches of rain here at JSC in what, three or four days, and as much as over 50 in some areas of Houston. There’s just no way where you have a storm like that where people aren’t impacted. They really tried to minimize injuries and deaths, and I think overall the city did a fantastic job in doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I know there’s been criticism of the mayor about not evacuating; it’s been a big discussion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s only by people who have never participated in an evacuation. They don’t realize what it means till 4 million people get on the road. That’s crazy, especially when the rains were going to start. It would have been a parking lot on the roads. You know how the roads flood. People were much safer in their homes than out on the roads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of those people weren’t here for Rita. I do remember that, being stuck [on the interstate]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wasn’t sure if there was anything else about Harvey. I didn’t have a lot of information, just looking through the Roundups."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.729730450243736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s only by people who have never participated in an evacuation. They don’t realize what it means till 4 million people get on the road. That’s crazy, especially when the rains were going to start. It would have been a parking lot on the roads. You know how the roads flood. People were much safer in their homes than out on the roads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of those people weren’t here for Rita. I do remember that, being stuck [on the interstate]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wasn’t sure if there was anything else about Harvey. I didn’t have a lot of information, just looking through the Roundups."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. Our team pulled together, they did a great job, made sure we continued with the operations that we needed to continue with, and I think are continuing to try to help out those people in our community who are obviously still in a situation which is—their whole lives have changed. If you’ve lost everything in your home, that’s not something you recover from quickly. I think it’s very very difficult for those people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Just finding skilled employees to come work in your house, that’s extremely difficult."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 28.588589389159704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wasn’t sure if there was anything else about Harvey. I didn’t have a lot of information, just looking through the Roundups."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. Our team pulled together, they did a great job, made sure we continued with the operations that we needed to continue with, and I think are continuing to try to help out those people in our community who are obviously still in a situation which is—their whole lives have changed. If you’ve lost everything in your home, that’s not something you recover from quickly. I think it’s very very difficult for those people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Just finding skilled employees to come work in your house, that’s extremely difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, when there’s 150,000 people that need them, or more than that probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, absolutely, yes. We called somebody during the storm, and I think we’ll see him this spring, maybe; it’s crazy.\\n\\n I just have some miscellaneous questions that I had come up with. One of those was establishing a spaceport out at Ellington [Field]. I wondered if JSC had played a role in that decision. I know we have a Space Act Agreement. Maybe the benefits for JSC [of] having a spaceport."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.581380530000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We do try to update it every once in a while. I think we’re getting ready for another update."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering about that. Are you working on JSC 2.018 and some of those plans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we are. We had a senior staff retreat last Friday, and then we’re going to meet again in January and finalize our thoughts. Part of it was reviewing what we had done this year, and in some of the areas did we want to continue, or do we have some other themes that we want to look at for 2018. We’ll probably be rolling that out in January. In fact, I have an all-hands scheduled for January 19th, so we’ll be talking more about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask about EM [Exploration Mission]-1. There was a decision made about putting a crew on that mission, and NASA decided that they wouldn’t be putting a crew on there. Were you part of that decision? Were you included in those discussions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about that and the pros and cons?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 23.979311700000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we are. We had a senior staff retreat last Friday, and then we’re going to meet again in January and finalize our thoughts. Part of it was reviewing what we had done this year, and in some of the areas did we want to continue, or do we have some other themes that we want to look at for 2018. We’ll probably be rolling that out in January. In fact, I have an all-hands scheduled for January 19th, so we’ll be talking more about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask about EM [Exploration Mission]-1. There was a decision made about putting a crew on that mission, and NASA decided that they wouldn’t be putting a crew on there. Were you part of that decision? Were you included in those discussions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about that and the pros and cons?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know there’s a lot there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, other than that from the beginning they talked a little bit about maybe more of an emphasis on the Moon and not continuing with the asteroid, and they made that pretty definite in October. But as I said, there wasn’t that much that we needed to change based on hearing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The President did release his skinny budget, I think, and in that he did cancel the Asteroid Redirect Mission, and then he also canceled the Office of Education. Did that impact education here at JSC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in the President’s proposed budget. What really matters is what’s appropriated by Congress, right? We have draft appropriations bills, but we don’t actually have the actual appropriations bills. The draft bills did include money for education.\\n\\n Given that there were some concerns about what NASA was doing and trying to make sure that what we do doesn’t seem to duplicate what happens in any other agency, NASA Headquarters reformulated that office, and it’s now called the Office of STEM [Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics] Engagement. So [NASA] really tried to focus the activities, and as we submitted a budget it was somewhat reformulated based on what we feel will be supported by Congress as well as we hope by the administration. We still have to really wait and see when Congress actually passes a budget this year what is in there for STEM engagement or education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember when that announcement came out, seeing people trying to figure out what the next move was. Have you guys been preparing? I know for a while there there was a discussion about whether or not there might be a shutdown. Now we have an extended CR [Continuing Resolution] until three days before Christmas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yes, and they’re working on another CR, which would take us probably into late January or something like that. Based on everything that we’re hearing we expect that CR to go through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you do any work in terms of senior management, or do you just let that roll and figure things are going to work out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00466:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yes, and they’re working on another CR, which would take us probably into late January or something like that. Based on everything that we’re hearing we expect that CR to go through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you do any work in terms of senior management, or do you just let that roll and figure things are going to work out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We take our cue from Headquarters. Headquarters takes it from OMB [Office of Management and Budget]. Really OMB was saying, “You really don’t need to prepare for shutdown.” Every agency has a shutdown plan, so we look at that once a year anyway just to see what differences there are. For JSC, the main thing that we update is what are the activities associated with the International Space Station that we need to make sure would continue if we would go into a shutdown at a particular time. They look at the actual launches coming up and talk about what needs to be supported. The philosophy is all the same, you’re not really changing your plan, but you are updating with specific vehicles and launches of what’s coming up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think this might be a good place to stop?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Thank you very much."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00030:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I’m fortunate, because I’m fairly thick-skinned, so it hardly ever bothered me personally. But you have to be aware of it, because it affects how you operate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any regrets with your time at the National Archive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s a certain sense, you know, 22 years was too long to spend there, but now that I’m out of it, having helped NARA get over the PROFS case, like I said, get the case eventually dismissed in our favor; having gotten NARA to really take electronic records seriously to acquiring and investing hundreds of millions of dollars in it, and even though it’s probably still a paper mindset, there was a huge difference between when I arrived in ’88 and ’98 in terms of accepting electronic records as a reality—a real challenge and a reality we had to deal with. It was a huge conversion in that period of time. So I’m glad to have been helping NARA to move along that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where do you see NARA - -? Where do you see ERA 2.0 going? Or where would you like it to go in the future of ERA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if I had any influence, the future would be more in the original direction of actually implementing preservation capabilities, and in my concept, preserving electronic records goes all the way to delivering them to people 10, 20, 50 years from now. In electronic records, you cannot divorce access from preservation. You do preservation to provide access, and you have to presume that people are going to want access to current technology. They don’t want to use obsolete technology. That remains a challenge that the longer we delay addressing that, the harder it’s going to be. We’ll be playing catch-up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Is there any last words you’d like to say here, Ken, about your time or thinking of any other stories you’d like to impart that you maybe forgot?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00828:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 72.69866678164132, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In parallel we were still launching the current vehicles we had. So we were still operating under the existing way while trying to envision how we were going to transition to the new way. So we had two or three launches a year at the time. It wasn’t like we had a whole bunch stacked. Because again when Challenger went, we were supposed to be—other than Shuttle/Centaur, we were supposed to be going out of business. So we only had a couple, three launches anywhere left.\\n\\n Now they gradually went and picked back up once we started remanifesting things from the Shuttle and started putting them back on ELVs. The manifests for ELVs started getting repopulated. Of course it takes a couple years before they come down to be on the launch site.\\n\\n But anyway, that was the one gap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s a good one. Thank you for filling that in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was significant to the ELV world in my opinion. It changed us in a way because you learned what it took to live in the Shuttle world. There’s a lot of similarities. One side would accuse the other that, “Oh, you don’t do business the way we do.” Or, “Oh, your safety policies are lax. You don’t do the same level of stringency we do.” I won’t argue with anybody, but I’ll just tell you, having lived in both worlds, they aren’t that much different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s talk about the other world, because you were in one culture since you had arrived, which was 1971."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Spent eighteen years in one culture, and then went to the other one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us how you became involved with that, because you were at a time right after Challenger."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00828:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.407513435556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. They wouldn’t give it up now. We did the first one and it found numerous things. So when you broke the configuration for next one, we said, “There’ll be another wave of components coming down, we need to”—so there was an MEIT 1, an MEIT 2. Now if nothing else, the software and the computers interacting with each other, they can have the SIL [System Integration Laboratory] labs and they can go do it all and they can proof it, but we stuck it over there, and we found things that hadn’t popped out. Everybody accepts it. It proved itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve talked a lot about the technical side of it, but want to share your thoughts of when you saw the Unity [Module] go up and mate with the Zarya [Control Module] for that time, and tell us about the experiences that—or the feelings that you and your team felt of seeing how well it worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’d been with us a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a friend of the family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, there’s a time to launch things after they’ve been here a while. So yes. Anything takes that long, you begin to wonder, “Are we ever going to get there?” The fact that we could get that one out and get started—because you always felt if you ever get the first one, the rest of them will follow. But it was like we’re never going to get the first one. Because it sat in the SSPF for a while, and then there’d be a new problem come up, and, “Well, we’re moving this,” and juggle the schedules. So yes, I just felt good that if we could get the first one, then you say, “Okay, at least we broke through and the rest of them will follow now.” So that was my sense. Just nice to get the first one off, knowing that that would get it started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you did that. You didn’t get to stay long in that area, because back at the beginning of 2000 you went back to ELV land. Is that like crossing the river, you go back?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00828:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 46.008348261728884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’d been with us a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a friend of the family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, there’s a time to launch things after they’ve been here a while. So yes. Anything takes that long, you begin to wonder, “Are we ever going to get there?” The fact that we could get that one out and get started—because you always felt if you ever get the first one, the rest of them will follow. But it was like we’re never going to get the first one. Because it sat in the SSPF for a while, and then there’d be a new problem come up, and, “Well, we’re moving this,” and juggle the schedules. So yes, I just felt good that if we could get the first one, then you say, “Okay, at least we broke through and the rest of them will follow now.” So that was my sense. Just nice to get the first one off, knowing that that would get it started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you did that. You didn’t get to stay long in that area, because back at the beginning of 2000 you went back to ELV land. Is that like crossing the river, you go back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The problem was I wanted to go back across the river because I kept thinking by that time they had moved enough folks over on the KSC property side that I didn’t get to go back across the river."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They changed it for you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00828:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 41.827363425790296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s the word now. This will continue. Expanding is always relative. I say that tongue in cheek."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but it is. It’s a good difference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. Most people, “Oh well, we’re going to be twice as busy next year as we—” Answer is we are typically five or six launches a year. We’re built for seven or so. We’re in balance with where the Agency’s budget is. If you’re building Constellation, there’s only so much they can invest in the Science Mission Directorate [SMD]. We’re really driven by that. We don’t stand alone. We thought real hard when we made it the Launch Services Program, because we don’t just buy vehicles and say, “We got them, and we’re launching them whether you’re on them or not.” We’re not quite that independent. We are a service. We try to carry that through that we’ve got a customer, and we’re only as good as he is. If the Science Mission Directorate budget goes down, then we know it’s going to directly reflect on us. We also know that success might enhance the budget. So if SMD can be successful with those flagship missions and we’re part of that success, then that’s a good thing, both for the Agency and for us and for science.\\n\\n So I think that’s why you see a willingness of the people to just do whatever it takes to make sure we’re successful, because we recognize that we’re an integral part. We’ve got our responsibility, but there isn’t an effect if we’re not. Because there are so few dollars, and believe me, this world, you have one bad day and they’ll remember it and it’ll show up in a lot of ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Takes a long time to recuperate off a bad day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s the only thing. I lead a group that’s not—knock on wood—we’ve been very fortunate—and in their lifetime most of my folks haven’t had a bad day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s the good news."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00828:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think you did pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thanks. Just a curiosity question. I know that you mentioned you had five to seven that you have that you could launch. How many do you have going all at one time? Projects from inception to launch that you’re juggling on a whiteboard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, juggling? Anywhere from thirty to forty. The missions, the early ones you’re talking about there, can start seven years out. So we’ll be juggling some seven years from now talking about, to the ones that we’ve actually bought vehicles for to the ones we’re actually on. Yes, we used to keep track of that, but any given time it’s been as high as close to forty, but it can be anything from thirty to forty in a year that we’re touching in some phase, either just talking about releasing an AO [announcement of opportunity] or a proposition for, to which ones are we contracting vehicles for versus which ones are in the launch queue the next three years. Typically we’ll get the launch vehicle procured and everything two to three years out. So those last two or three is you actually got a mission, you got the vehicle identified, you’re actually—but before that you’re making trades of what vehicle would this go on, how would you advise the customer. So that whole spectrum could be seven to ten years, and it can be thirty to forty missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a lot of them drop out during that time period for any reasons?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some do. There’ll be a trade. If SMD is trading, and they may decide to just not pursue one. But that’s alright, they’ll generally stick something else in its place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Well, we wish you luck, and we wish you to be busy until you end up going out of business. Like you said, maybe that’ll be another thirty something years."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00881:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.752752570000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s the cost of doing business, and they are quite expensive. Planetary launch vehicles are not cheap if you’re going to leave the Earth’s orbit. I wish we could just use some of the smaller vehicles that are available to the other disciplines, but it just doesn’t work out that way. It’s 10 to 20 percent of the cost of a mission for the launch vehicle alone. Maybe in the future as other groups are getting more involved in it, more commercial vendors will be working on it. SpaceX right now, as an example, is perfecting a new rocket called Falcon 9 Heavy, and that’s probably a vehicle worthy of some planetary missions that we can do. If Elon [Musk] keeps on track the way he is doing, it will be a very competitive cost, that will help drive down the overall cost of the launch vehicles, and we have to do that because right now they are just incredibly expensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that’s a big challenge for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. I’ll give you an example. We could spend $200 million to launch a $500 million spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "$200 million?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the launch vehicle. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s not quite launching the Space Shuttle, but it’s up there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00881:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 46.391947300000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. I’ll give you an example. We could spend $200 million to launch a $500 million spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "$200 million?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the launch vehicle. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s not quite launching the Space Shuttle, but it’s up there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just for the launch vehicle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have access to those vehicles, because I also understand there are other people who want these vehicles, the military."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00881:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 50.435497000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the launch vehicle. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s not quite launching the Space Shuttle, but it’s up there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just for the launch vehicle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have access to those vehicles, because I also understand there are other people who want these vehicles, the military."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have a contract vehicle at NASA that we use, that Human Exploration and Operations Mission Directorate actually manage the purchase of the launch vehicles that SMD uses. We have to use that contract, so there’s a call for proposals for all those approved vendors that satisfy the NASA regulations that enable them to bid on planetary missions. Then the proposals come in and are evaluated, and the launch vehicle is decided on, and then we’re told what the price is and we pay it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That seems like the wrong way to do it—without competition."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00881:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 54.92833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just for the launch vehicle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have access to those vehicles, because I also understand there are other people who want these vehicles, the military."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have a contract vehicle at NASA that we use, that Human Exploration and Operations Mission Directorate actually manage the purchase of the launch vehicles that SMD uses. We have to use that contract, so there’s a call for proposals for all those approved vendors that satisfy the NASA regulations that enable them to bid on planetary missions. Then the proposals come in and are evaluated, and the launch vehicle is decided on, and then we’re told what the price is and we pay it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That seems like the wrong way to do it—without competition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well there is competition. Right now, we only fly American vehicles. It’s not like it’s open to every launch vehicle that’s made by other nations. But that’s part of doing business in Planetary Science at the moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That brings up a question that I was thinking about. Recently, [President Donald] Trump visited Europe, and there was a lot of discussion about him not bringing up Article 5 at NATO. Angela Merkel [Chancellor of Germany] made this comment that we can no longer count on the US. I know we have a lot of missions where we’re joint partners with the Europeans. I’m wondering, has that filtered down to NASA? Is there some concern on the part of the Europeans about NASA’s role and our partnership?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.921106682018097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok. I'm Carol Hifley Crew. Hifley when I was in the Peace Corps. I live in Seattle, Washington and I was in Chile. We were Chile XIII, with the group Chile XIII, 1964 to '66."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The project was a cooperative, cooperatives, specifically credit union cooperatives was what most of our group was trained in. However, I was, they split some of us off into cooperative education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll get to that. I usually start by asking people to go back to before they join the Peace Corps. Give a little bit of your background and then maybe talk about the motivation that got you into the Peace Corps so you can go back as far as you want."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, I was born. No, I lived in Reno, Nevada, and had practically never been out of the state. I had gone to the local schools and managed to get a scholarship so I could go to the University of Nevada in Reno, which is the state university, and I was studying journalism. And so in studying journalism, we really, a lot of what one in one class we studied Time magazine from, you know, 1960 through 1964, which was the Kennedy era. And so we were I was just totally imbued. And of course, being of that age, totally enraptured with the change that Kennedy was bringing, a young feeling in the country. And I come from a very Democratic labor union, kind of a family anyway, so we have been Democrats anyway. And when he was killed, I was really shaken by that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you in college then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.779144051874194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, I was born. No, I lived in Reno, Nevada, and had practically never been out of the state. I had gone to the local schools and managed to get a scholarship so I could go to the University of Nevada in Reno, which is the state university, and I was studying journalism. And so in studying journalism, we really, a lot of what one in one class we studied Time magazine from, you know, 1960 through 1964, which was the Kennedy era. And so we were I was just totally imbued. And of course, being of that age, totally enraptured with the change that Kennedy was bringing, a young feeling in the country. And I come from a very Democratic labor union, kind of a family anyway, so we have been Democrats anyway. And when he was killed, I was really shaken by that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you in college then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in college. It was my senior year in college. And it was just shaking communities. Just a terrible thing to happen. And I don't know when, in the spring, I don't know, there must be some kind of recruiting stuff, and I went and took the Peace Corps test, and I remember my friends going, what are you doing? Are you nuts? And it just was one of those very few decisions that I've been able to make in my life. I was so sure that's what I wanted to do. It was no problem with. I was absolutely going to do it. They sent me this thing saying, I guess, would you like to go to Chile? I had to go look it up, literally. I did not know where Chile was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reaction of your family when you first said, well, I think I'll join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it's hard to remember that I don't actually know. I think whatever the reaction was, I was oblivious to it. It didn't matter. You know, my mind was so completely made up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that time, there was still a fairly lengthy exam before you got an invitation. Do you recall the exam at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.865715613193549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in college. It was my senior year in college. And it was just shaking communities. Just a terrible thing to happen. And I don't know when, in the spring, I don't know, there must be some kind of recruiting stuff, and I went and took the Peace Corps test, and I remember my friends going, what are you doing? Are you nuts? And it just was one of those very few decisions that I've been able to make in my life. I was so sure that's what I wanted to do. It was no problem with. I was absolutely going to do it. They sent me this thing saying, I guess, would you like to go to Chile? I had to go look it up, literally. I did not know where Chile was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reaction of your family when you first said, well, I think I'll join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it's hard to remember that I don't actually know. I think whatever the reaction was, I was oblivious to it. It didn't matter. You know, my mind was so completely made up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that time, there was still a fairly lengthy exam before you got an invitation. Do you recall the exam at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very little about the exam. I just remember going and doing it and didn't seem like a difficult thing, but I remember doing the exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me go back to your high school years. During high school vacations or other, were you at all involved in service projects?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.073017347992831, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it's hard to remember that I don't actually know. I think whatever the reaction was, I was oblivious to it. It didn't matter. You know, my mind was so completely made up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that time, there was still a fairly lengthy exam before you got an invitation. Do you recall the exam at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very little about the exam. I just remember going and doing it and didn't seem like a difficult thing, but I remember doing the exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me go back to your high school years. During high school vacations or other, were you at all involved in service projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely not. I came from a pretty poor family, pretty much without resources. We didn't even go on vacations, you know, so it wasn't a concept, you know, it wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So also very little travel."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.303352608880923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very little about the exam. I just remember going and doing it and didn't seem like a difficult thing, but I remember doing the exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me go back to your high school years. During high school vacations or other, were you at all involved in service projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely not. I came from a pretty poor family, pretty much without resources. We didn't even go on vacations, you know, so it wasn't a concept, you know, it wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So also very little travel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, hardly any. I'd already been. I'd been to San Francisco like twice. You know, it was a total of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about studying of a foreign language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.225947343201025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely not. I came from a pretty poor family, pretty much without resources. We didn't even go on vacations, you know, so it wasn't a concept, you know, it wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So also very little travel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, hardly any. I'd already been. I'd been to San Francisco like twice. You know, it was a total of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about studying of a foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been studying French, of course. I had been studying French food through high through college a couple of years in high school and through college. And so, of course, that was just enough to really make it hard to learn Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you're now in your third, fourth year of college and completing a degree in journalism."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.251052603556694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, hardly any. I'd already been. I'd been to San Francisco like twice. You know, it was a total of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about studying of a foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been studying French, of course. I had been studying French food through high through college a couple of years in high school and through college. And so, of course, that was just enough to really make it hard to learn Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you're now in your third, fourth year of college and completing a degree in journalism."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In journalism, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than the Peace Corps, did you have any kind of career goal?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.278947337285215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been studying French, of course. I had been studying French food through high through college a couple of years in high school and through college. And so, of course, that was just enough to really make it hard to learn Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you're now in your third, fourth year of college and completing a degree in journalism."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In journalism, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than the Peace Corps, did you have any kind of career goal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was really. Yeah, my career goal was really to be a reporter, and I had actually thought I'd be a print reporter. But the internship I got when I was in college was with a television station, you know, which is basically sort of rewriting wire copy or, you know, I mean, we didn't get to do very much, but Reno was a very small town, so I don't even know if there was a second TV station at the time. It might have just been the one. And it was very, it was a lot of fun. I mean, you know, it was intriguing and it was fun and it was local. You know, local news coverage was pretty basic. You know, I don't even know if we had sound on film, it might have been just black and white. I don't know, you know, but it was interesting and it was journalism, you know, to the extent. But it wasn't right. It wasn't the kind I was going to do, which was going to be print. I was going to write for a newspaper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But in your fourth year, you took the exam and then you got the invitation to a country you didn't know to work in a language you didn't know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.421052596983571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In journalism, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than the Peace Corps, did you have any kind of career goal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was really. Yeah, my career goal was really to be a reporter, and I had actually thought I'd be a print reporter. But the internship I got when I was in college was with a television station, you know, which is basically sort of rewriting wire copy or, you know, I mean, we didn't get to do very much, but Reno was a very small town, so I don't even know if there was a second TV station at the time. It might have just been the one. And it was very, it was a lot of fun. I mean, you know, it was intriguing and it was fun and it was local. You know, local news coverage was pretty basic. You know, I don't even know if we had sound on film, it might have been just black and white. I don't know, you know, but it was interesting and it was journalism, you know, to the extent. But it wasn't right. It wasn't the kind I was going to do, which was going to be print. I was going to write for a newspaper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But in your fourth year, you took the exam and then you got the invitation to a country you didn't know to work in a language you didn't know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A language I knew nothing about. It was very upsetting, actually. You know, it never dawned on me to write him back and say, send me someplace French. I speak French a little, you know, I don't know. It never even dawned on me. I said, Sure, I'll go there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had any of your friends in college friends or others joined the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.467836218870636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was really. Yeah, my career goal was really to be a reporter, and I had actually thought I'd be a print reporter. But the internship I got when I was in college was with a television station, you know, which is basically sort of rewriting wire copy or, you know, I mean, we didn't get to do very much, but Reno was a very small town, so I don't even know if there was a second TV station at the time. It might have just been the one. And it was very, it was a lot of fun. I mean, you know, it was intriguing and it was fun and it was local. You know, local news coverage was pretty basic. You know, I don't even know if we had sound on film, it might have been just black and white. I don't know, you know, but it was interesting and it was journalism, you know, to the extent. But it wasn't right. It wasn't the kind I was going to do, which was going to be print. I was going to write for a newspaper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But in your fourth year, you took the exam and then you got the invitation to a country you didn't know to work in a language you didn't know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A language I knew nothing about. It was very upsetting, actually. You know, it never dawned on me to write him back and say, send me someplace French. I speak French a little, you know, I don't know. It never even dawned on me. I said, Sure, I'll go there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had any of your friends in college friends or others joined the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hadn't known anyone before. I decided to join, but a really good friend of mine did decide to join. And he went to Bolivia, but like a half a year off from me. But he was in Bolivia. We saw each other when we were done. But that was really the only connection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finally got the telegram, which was would you report to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.466464467741526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hadn't known anyone before. I decided to join, but a really good friend of mine did decide to join. And he went to Bolivia, but like a half a year off from me. But he was in Bolivia. We saw each other when we were done. But that was really the only connection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finally got the telegram, which was would you report to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Notre Dame."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Notre Dame for training June 24th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did they tell you it was for a co-op program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.518293853046139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Notre Dame."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Notre Dame for training June 24th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did they tell you it was for a co-op program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just they didn't. Who knows if they even knew, you know, but I suppose they did, that it was a cooperative point. I had no experience about cooperatives at all until training, that was really where they gave us all the information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone try to talk you out of it at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.686993170051265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Notre Dame for training June 24th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did they tell you it was for a co-op program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just they didn't. Who knows if they even knew, you know, but I suppose they did, that it was a cooperative point. I had no experience about cooperatives at all until training, that was really where they gave us all the information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone try to talk you out of it at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. People would say, why are you doing this and why would you want to do that and stuff like that? And I just would go, because I want to. You want to do something good. I want to go do something good. So it wasn't, you know, in most of my life, decision making has been very difficult and people could sway me. This was not swayable and I don't know why I was so sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And this was June of '64 then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.985547966723628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just they didn't. Who knows if they even knew, you know, but I suppose they did, that it was a cooperative point. I had no experience about cooperatives at all until training, that was really where they gave us all the information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone try to talk you out of it at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. People would say, why are you doing this and why would you want to do that and stuff like that? And I just would go, because I want to. You want to do something good. I want to go do something good. So it wasn't, you know, in most of my life, decision making has been very difficult and people could sway me. This was not swayable and I don't know why I was so sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And this was June of '64 then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "June of '64. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went up to Notre Dame."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.983942185248475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. People would say, why are you doing this and why would you want to do that and stuff like that? And I just would go, because I want to. You want to do something good. I want to go do something good. So it wasn't, you know, in most of my life, decision making has been very difficult and people could sway me. This was not swayable and I don't know why I was so sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And this was June of '64 then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "June of '64. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went up to Notre Dame."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Notre Dame, South Bend, Indiana. They roll up the they roll up the sidewalks at 10 o'clock. Now I'm from a 24-hour town, a gambling town where everything's open all the time. It was like, well, you know, let's go to the supermarket. All supermarkets are closed. Now what? They're closed?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, what was, how large was the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.214743438578363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Notre Dame, South Bend, Indiana. They roll up the they roll up the sidewalks at 10 o'clock. Now I'm from a 24-hour town, a gambling town where everything's open all the time. It was like, well, you know, let's go to the supermarket. All supermarkets are closed. Now what? They're closed?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, what was, how large was the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And oh, let's see. Boy, you know, I'm not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just approximately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, approximately. There were two groups training, actually. One was training for Uruguay in community development, yeah, in community development. They weren't doing credit unions. And then our group. So probably all together, we were probably close to 40, 45 people altogether. Our group was probably 20 something and theirs was a little smaller."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your impression of your fellow trainees? I mean, now it's not just you joining the Peace Corps, there's all this crowd. Have any particular reaction you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.349714931753736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And oh, let's see. Boy, you know, I'm not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just approximately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, approximately. There were two groups training, actually. One was training for Uruguay in community development, yeah, in community development. They weren't doing credit unions. And then our group. So probably all together, we were probably close to 40, 45 people altogether. Our group was probably 20 something and theirs was a little smaller."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your impression of your fellow trainees? I mean, now it's not just you joining the Peace Corps, there's all this crowd. Have any particular reaction you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I really liked them. I was fascinated by the fact that there were several really newlywed couples that were going, which was pretty amazing to me and that there were there was an interesting spread. There was one man who was older, I suppose he was in his sixties, but he didn't end up getting to go because physically he didn't do so well. But everybody was pretty, pretty monolithically the same age just came out of college, you know, hardly anyone was different in that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was too early for Vietnam to be a concern."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.38857214639304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, approximately. There were two groups training, actually. One was training for Uruguay in community development, yeah, in community development. They weren't doing credit unions. And then our group. So probably all together, we were probably close to 40, 45 people altogether. Our group was probably 20 something and theirs was a little smaller."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your impression of your fellow trainees? I mean, now it's not just you joining the Peace Corps, there's all this crowd. Have any particular reaction you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I really liked them. I was fascinated by the fact that there were several really newlywed couples that were going, which was pretty amazing to me and that there were there was an interesting spread. There was one man who was older, I suppose he was in his sixties, but he didn't end up getting to go because physically he didn't do so well. But everybody was pretty, pretty monolithically the same age just came out of college, you know, hardly anyone was different in that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was too early for Vietnam to be a concern."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a concern. I think it was, yeah, I think it had become. It was '60. It was '64. So the people were, yeah. And I think the young men were quite aware of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Well, then talk about the training. How was it organized?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.542857940436711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I really liked them. I was fascinated by the fact that there were several really newlywed couples that were going, which was pretty amazing to me and that there were there was an interesting spread. There was one man who was older, I suppose he was in his sixties, but he didn't end up getting to go because physically he didn't do so well. But everybody was pretty, pretty monolithically the same age just came out of college, you know, hardly anyone was different in that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was too early for Vietnam to be a concern."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a concern. I think it was, yeah, I think it had become. It was '60. It was '64. So the people were, yeah. And I think the young men were quite aware of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Well, then talk about the training. How was it organized?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The time was, well for one thing it was at Notre Dame, which was so amazing and beautiful and it was. And the other piece about being at Notre Dame was that also Notre Dame would have summer school for priests and nuns. And so we would be going through the cafeteria with all these priests and nuns, and these nuns at that time all wore the different habits. And so it became a game with us to be able to name the different orders, you know? And then, of course, the nuns would have these, the nuns and priests would have these hootenannies down by the lake and everybody was singing, you know, we shall overcome. And it was very, it was very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was interaction with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.492064378263013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a concern. I think it was, yeah, I think it had become. It was '60. It was '64. So the people were, yeah. And I think the young men were quite aware of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Well, then talk about the training. How was it organized?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The time was, well for one thing it was at Notre Dame, which was so amazing and beautiful and it was. And the other piece about being at Notre Dame was that also Notre Dame would have summer school for priests and nuns. And so we would be going through the cafeteria with all these priests and nuns, and these nuns at that time all wore the different habits. And so it became a game with us to be able to name the different orders, you know? And then, of course, the nuns would have these, the nuns and priests would have these hootenannies down by the lake and everybody was singing, you know, we shall overcome. And it was very, it was very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was interaction with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, oh yeah, a lot of interactions with them. Fascinatingly, because when we were down in South America, certainly the Maryknoll order of priests and nuns were very active. They were the activist Catholics down there, and they were very often helpful to our projects and individual ways or helpful. They helped me out with some stuff at one point. And really like a parallel Peace Corps in a certain way. They were very strongly working in development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did language training must have been a major part of it? How is it structured?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.434647380571621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, oh yeah, a lot of interactions with them. Fascinatingly, because when we were down in South America, certainly the Maryknoll order of priests and nuns were very active. They were the activist Catholics down there, and they were very often helpful to our projects and individual ways or helpful. They helped me out with some stuff at one point. And really like a parallel Peace Corps in a certain way. They were very strongly working in development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did language training must have been a major part of it? How is it structured?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seemed as if we were engaging. I know that we would go in the mornings to language training. We'd do first thing in the morning. We do at least an hour even before breakfast, if I remember right. We do an hour language training and it was usually the, that was audio training. It was all audio visual anyway. But this was audio training so that you'd repeat back and, you know, that kind of thing. And then the classes, I'm sure the first class after breakfast was Spanish also. And the classes were small, organized according to your abilities, and somehow I wasn't in the lowest class. I have no idea why. Well, they did give us this language test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aptitude test."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Aptitude test, and that's how they made that decision. But you know, I was actually I should have been on the minus because the French was so messing me up, you know, the different verbs and they're so close. But the teachers, most many of whom were from Chile, I can't say most, but many of them were from Chile, and that was very helpful. So many of our trainers were from Chile and they showed us, I mean, they even showed us etiquette at the table. And it was like, I can still remember how one would actually eat a cantaloupe in Chile. Chilean was like the knife and fork and very delicate. I didn't come from that kind of a background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we were able to interact with them outside the classroom."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.927385978412913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seemed as if we were engaging. I know that we would go in the mornings to language training. We'd do first thing in the morning. We do at least an hour even before breakfast, if I remember right. We do an hour language training and it was usually the, that was audio training. It was all audio visual anyway. But this was audio training so that you'd repeat back and, you know, that kind of thing. And then the classes, I'm sure the first class after breakfast was Spanish also. And the classes were small, organized according to your abilities, and somehow I wasn't in the lowest class. I have no idea why. Well, they did give us this language test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aptitude test."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Aptitude test, and that's how they made that decision. But you know, I was actually I should have been on the minus because the French was so messing me up, you know, the different verbs and they're so close. But the teachers, most many of whom were from Chile, I can't say most, but many of them were from Chile, and that was very helpful. So many of our trainers were from Chile and they showed us, I mean, they even showed us etiquette at the table. And it was like, I can still remember how one would actually eat a cantaloupe in Chile. Chilean was like the knife and fork and very delicate. I didn't come from that kind of a background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we were able to interact with them outside the classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they took part in a lot of the, they'd come to the hootenannies and we'd, uh, they didn't, of course, go to the local bar with us, which was good. They couldn't do, you know, as teachers. But yes, there were a couple of romances and you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the male female mix of your group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4748733093476805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Aptitude test, and that's how they made that decision. But you know, I was actually I should have been on the minus because the French was so messing me up, you know, the different verbs and they're so close. But the teachers, most many of whom were from Chile, I can't say most, but many of them were from Chile, and that was very helpful. So many of our trainers were from Chile and they showed us, I mean, they even showed us etiquette at the table. And it was like, I can still remember how one would actually eat a cantaloupe in Chile. Chilean was like the knife and fork and very delicate. I didn't come from that kind of a background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we were able to interact with them outside the classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they took part in a lot of the, they'd come to the hootenannies and we'd, uh, they didn't, of course, go to the local bar with us, which was good. They couldn't do, you know, as teachers. But yes, there were a couple of romances and you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the male female mix of your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of our group? Oh, that's a good question. I think about 50-50."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a fair amount of pairing off."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.083192565941867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they took part in a lot of the, they'd come to the hootenannies and we'd, uh, they didn't, of course, go to the local bar with us, which was good. They couldn't do, you know, as teachers. But yes, there were a couple of romances and you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the male female mix of your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of our group? Oh, that's a good question. I think about 50-50."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a fair amount of pairing off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a fair amount of pairing off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beginning of dating."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.759102851046519, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of our group? Oh, that's a good question. I think about 50-50."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a fair amount of pairing off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a fair amount of pairing off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beginning of dating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Plus there were the couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was it made clear to you that language would be a real determinant of selection, that you had to get to a certain level in order to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.233460309933974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Plus there were the couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was it made clear to you that language would be a real determinant of selection, that you had to get to a certain level in order to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, although everyone felt that, I mean, we there was always the sort of grim reaper of deselection. Do you remember they used to call it the deselection?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was always that piece, and I, as a matter of fact, had a habit of falling asleep in class because I had always been working when I was going to college and I was always in a state of exhaustion and I'd become trained like Pavlovian. Someone would start lecturing and I just go, whew, I can remember, but I'm trying to keep me awake so I wouldn't get deselected. But the, uh, it seemed to me that it was pretty equal in gender and that the sense of wanting to accomplish whatever you need to do to stay in was very strong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a group feeling."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.037178122148859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, although everyone felt that, I mean, we there was always the sort of grim reaper of deselection. Do you remember they used to call it the deselection?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was always that piece, and I, as a matter of fact, had a habit of falling asleep in class because I had always been working when I was going to college and I was always in a state of exhaustion and I'd become trained like Pavlovian. Someone would start lecturing and I just go, whew, I can remember, but I'm trying to keep me awake so I wouldn't get deselected. But the, uh, it seemed to me that it was pretty equal in gender and that the sense of wanting to accomplish whatever you need to do to stay in was very strong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a group feeling."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very strong group feeling about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have psychiatric interviews?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.930197913498732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was always that piece, and I, as a matter of fact, had a habit of falling asleep in class because I had always been working when I was going to college and I was always in a state of exhaustion and I'd become trained like Pavlovian. Someone would start lecturing and I just go, whew, I can remember, but I'm trying to keep me awake so I wouldn't get deselected. But the, uh, it seemed to me that it was pretty equal in gender and that the sense of wanting to accomplish whatever you need to do to stay in was very strong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a group feeling."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very strong group feeling about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have psychiatric interviews?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh yes. That's one of my favorite stories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell me."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.691602362344113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh yes. That's one of my favorite stories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they did, you know, they had the psychiatric thing, the test that you took. It was probably the MMPI."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And because now that I'm in the field psychology, I actually recognize, yeah, I took this before. And the one thing that I answered that must have raised flags was, it said if you had it somewhere, there must be a question said something on the order of if you had a choice, would you be a boy or girl? Would you change your gender? And I said, well, I'd rather I'd be a guy. It was clear to me the guys had it easier and had things were better for them. And I mean, that seemed obvious, right? But that raised flags about, I think about whether I was a lesbian, you know, so I had the interview with the psychiatrist. Well, how do you feel about being a girl? I said, well, I'm used to it, you know? I've been a girl for like almost twenty years. Twenty one, twenty two years now, you know, I'm OK. I mean, it was puzzling to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have been nervous, though."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.546224847049015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they did, you know, they had the psychiatric thing, the test that you took. It was probably the MMPI."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And because now that I'm in the field psychology, I actually recognize, yeah, I took this before. And the one thing that I answered that must have raised flags was, it said if you had it somewhere, there must be a question said something on the order of if you had a choice, would you be a boy or girl? Would you change your gender? And I said, well, I'd rather I'd be a guy. It was clear to me the guys had it easier and had things were better for them. And I mean, that seemed obvious, right? But that raised flags about, I think about whether I was a lesbian, you know, so I had the interview with the psychiatrist. Well, how do you feel about being a girl? I said, well, I'm used to it, you know? I've been a girl for like almost twenty years. Twenty one, twenty two years now, you know, I'm OK. I mean, it was puzzling to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have been nervous, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was. I didn't, you know, I mean, I didn't. I sort of realized that was the piece because he was asking me about that. Very heterosexual. It's not a problem. I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have more than one interview?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.495805385610016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And because now that I'm in the field psychology, I actually recognize, yeah, I took this before. And the one thing that I answered that must have raised flags was, it said if you had it somewhere, there must be a question said something on the order of if you had a choice, would you be a boy or girl? Would you change your gender? And I said, well, I'd rather I'd be a guy. It was clear to me the guys had it easier and had things were better for them. And I mean, that seemed obvious, right? But that raised flags about, I think about whether I was a lesbian, you know, so I had the interview with the psychiatrist. Well, how do you feel about being a girl? I said, well, I'm used to it, you know? I've been a girl for like almost twenty years. Twenty one, twenty two years now, you know, I'm OK. I mean, it was puzzling to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have been nervous, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was. I didn't, you know, I mean, I didn't. I sort of realized that was the piece because he was asking me about that. Very heterosexual. It's not a problem. I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have more than one interview?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I only recall having one. Yeah, I only recall having one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we'll get to selection later. So a typical training day was the language and language."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.550894872900017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was. I didn't, you know, I mean, I didn't. I sort of realized that was the piece because he was asking me about that. Very heterosexual. It's not a problem. I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have more than one interview?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I only recall having one. Yeah, I only recall having one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we'll get to selection later. So a typical training day was the language and language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language and language and community development, lunch. More community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was doing the community development?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.914685028271624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language and language and community development, lunch. More community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was doing the community development?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "People from the previous Chile group, I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ex-volunteers then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh gosh, Mike, I can't remember his last name. He, uh, there were several of the previous Chile volunteers who were doing community development, and I have a very poor memory for this. So I'm sure other people in my group would remember all this stuff. And then there were then they seemed to bring in, they did some really good stuff with breaking us up into groups, giving us case studies and asking us what we would do about it. They also did some very good stuff about group dynamics, you know, setting us into situations and then being able to feedback to us. Ok, what role did you play in that discussion? You know, people were supposed to take."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All role playing or did they create situations?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.238538920301805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People from the previous Chile group, I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ex-volunteers then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh gosh, Mike, I can't remember his last name. He, uh, there were several of the previous Chile volunteers who were doing community development, and I have a very poor memory for this. So I'm sure other people in my group would remember all this stuff. And then there were then they seemed to bring in, they did some really good stuff with breaking us up into groups, giving us case studies and asking us what we would do about it. They also did some very good stuff about group dynamics, you know, setting us into situations and then being able to feedback to us. Ok, what role did you play in that discussion? You know, people were supposed to take."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All role playing or did they create situations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they created situations where we were supposed to be trying to, trying to come up with some development plan and then noticing the manner in which we worked and who did what. So who kind of took over and made it go, who kind of sat back and waited until they were asked, who did what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who ran the program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.265043244779783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh gosh, Mike, I can't remember his last name. He, uh, there were several of the previous Chile volunteers who were doing community development, and I have a very poor memory for this. So I'm sure other people in my group would remember all this stuff. And then there were then they seemed to bring in, they did some really good stuff with breaking us up into groups, giving us case studies and asking us what we would do about it. They also did some very good stuff about group dynamics, you know, setting us into situations and then being able to feedback to us. Ok, what role did you play in that discussion? You know, people were supposed to take."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All role playing or did they create situations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they created situations where we were supposed to be trying to, trying to come up with some development plan and then noticing the manner in which we worked and who did what. So who kind of took over and made it go, who kind of sat back and waited until they were asked, who did what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who ran the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Remember, it was Walter Langford was the person at Notre Dame who oversaw the program. Mike Curtin was the guy I was trying to think of, who did the community development part of it I think. And I don't have in my mind any of the people who are under Langford, but he was the, he was in a certain way part of the Catholic conspiracy. You know, in a certain way there was the choice of Notre Dame and there was a very strong sense of Notre Dame having a commitment to this program. And so at least I won't say the Catholic conspiracy, but a real strong urge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it built into the program design that anyone from Notre Dame would be the company you were working with you down when you went to Chile?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.183381383088648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they created situations where we were supposed to be trying to, trying to come up with some development plan and then noticing the manner in which we worked and who did what. So who kind of took over and made it go, who kind of sat back and waited until they were asked, who did what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who ran the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Remember, it was Walter Langford was the person at Notre Dame who oversaw the program. Mike Curtin was the guy I was trying to think of, who did the community development part of it I think. And I don't have in my mind any of the people who are under Langford, but he was the, he was in a certain way part of the Catholic conspiracy. You know, in a certain way there was the choice of Notre Dame and there was a very strong sense of Notre Dame having a commitment to this program. And so at least I won't say the Catholic conspiracy, but a real strong urge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it built into the program design that anyone from Notre Dame would be the company you were working with you down when you went to Chile?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember anybody from Notre Dame. I mean, I do remember the people who went down with us. One was Mel Romero as our representative. We had a couple of reps. And of course, I don't know with the Uruguay group what happened with them because they didn't even get to go to Uruguay, they ended up in Venezuela. No training for it. But we had a, I remember the reps coming and talking to us, but they weren't a standard part of our training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but it seems to me that there was, did a clear definition of a job begin to emerge that you would build expectations? When I get there, I'm going to be doing this."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.20375709232072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Remember, it was Walter Langford was the person at Notre Dame who oversaw the program. Mike Curtin was the guy I was trying to think of, who did the community development part of it I think. And I don't have in my mind any of the people who are under Langford, but he was the, he was in a certain way part of the Catholic conspiracy. You know, in a certain way there was the choice of Notre Dame and there was a very strong sense of Notre Dame having a commitment to this program. And so at least I won't say the Catholic conspiracy, but a real strong urge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it built into the program design that anyone from Notre Dame would be the company you were working with you down when you went to Chile?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember anybody from Notre Dame. I mean, I do remember the people who went down with us. One was Mel Romero as our representative. We had a couple of reps. And of course, I don't know with the Uruguay group what happened with them because they didn't even get to go to Uruguay, they ended up in Venezuela. No training for it. But we had a, I remember the reps coming and talking to us, but they weren't a standard part of our training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but it seems to me that there was, did a clear definition of a job begin to emerge that you would build expectations? When I get there, I'm going to be doing this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that our little group, I did have an. Our little group got split off later. Our educational group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Still during the training program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.004174547023021, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember anybody from Notre Dame. I mean, I do remember the people who went down with us. One was Mel Romero as our representative. We had a couple of reps. And of course, I don't know with the Uruguay group what happened with them because they didn't even get to go to Uruguay, they ended up in Venezuela. No training for it. But we had a, I remember the reps coming and talking to us, but they weren't a standard part of our training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but it seems to me that there was, did a clear definition of a job begin to emerge that you would build expectations? When I get there, I'm going to be doing this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that our little group, I did have an. Our little group got split off later. Our educational group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Still during the training program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even think it was during the training program. I think we got to Chile and got told that we weren't going to be part of the credit union program. I don't remember us getting separate training in Notre Dame for education, for education about cooperatives. But those of us that were put into that were people who are either teachers or journalists or PR kind of people. So I know that, you know, Bill Long, who would have been, but he didn't go along. And Howard Nelson, who was from Idaho, who was also a journalism person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it wasn't just women."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.893527274470024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that our little group, I did have an. Our little group got split off later. Our educational group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Still during the training program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even think it was during the training program. I think we got to Chile and got told that we weren't going to be part of the credit union program. I don't remember us getting separate training in Notre Dame for education, for education about cooperatives. But those of us that were put into that were people who are either teachers or journalists or PR kind of people. So I know that, you know, Bill Long, who would have been, but he didn't go along. And Howard Nelson, who was from Idaho, who was also a journalism person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it wasn't just women."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. It wasn't at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any sense that the real guys were going into the credit union program and then they were finding something for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.51052749934571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. It wasn't at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any sense that the real guys were going into the credit union program and then they were finding something for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. Although there was this, I did. You know, I did certainly know that I was, it was harder to place the girls out in the out, in the Campo, it just was. And we knew that. I mean, we weren't silly about that. We were aware of what a problem that was. But no, it was pretty equal. And I got so into my own particular program. I don't even actually know what the other girls did. There was a great number of people. I mean, they were only like maybe 10 of us, eight to 10 of us who went into the cooperative education. The rest were credit union people and many there were a couple of fishermen guys and they went off and did fisherman stuff. And many people, the credit unions was a ridiculous idea because the inflation rate in Chile was 300 percent a year or something. And it was, that's probably big. But I mean, it was, it did not make for credit unions being the manner in which things were going to work. However, there were other things that could be done and people tended to go off and make cooperatives around something else that worked better than credit unions or take that credit union and try to put their money someplace where it would be helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, let's say with training for a minute. Did you get much in the way of either Latin American or Chilean studies, some sense of the history?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were very steeped in that. That was very good. The history of Chile, the customs of Chile, you know? And of course, as I said, so many of our language teachers were Chilean that they were able to incorporate a lot of that. I really felt prepared culturally in a way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also get the anti-communism packet, you know? The American institutions and world communism."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.456141665939677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. Although there was this, I did. You know, I did certainly know that I was, it was harder to place the girls out in the out, in the Campo, it just was. And we knew that. I mean, we weren't silly about that. We were aware of what a problem that was. But no, it was pretty equal. And I got so into my own particular program. I don't even actually know what the other girls did. There was a great number of people. I mean, they were only like maybe 10 of us, eight to 10 of us who went into the cooperative education. The rest were credit union people and many there were a couple of fishermen guys and they went off and did fisherman stuff. And many people, the credit unions was a ridiculous idea because the inflation rate in Chile was 300 percent a year or something. And it was, that's probably big. But I mean, it was, it did not make for credit unions being the manner in which things were going to work. However, there were other things that could be done and people tended to go off and make cooperatives around something else that worked better than credit unions or take that credit union and try to put their money someplace where it would be helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, let's say with training for a minute. Did you get much in the way of either Latin American or Chilean studies, some sense of the history?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were very steeped in that. That was very good. The history of Chile, the customs of Chile, you know? And of course, as I said, so many of our language teachers were Chilean that they were able to incorporate a lot of that. I really felt prepared culturally in a way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also get the anti-communism packet, you know? The American institutions and world communism."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't remember that. Maybe I slept through it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that would be."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.506824073266309, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were very steeped in that. That was very good. The history of Chile, the customs of Chile, you know? And of course, as I said, so many of our language teachers were Chilean that they were able to incorporate a lot of that. I really felt prepared culturally in a way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also get the anti-communism packet, you know? The American institutions and world communism."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't remember that. Maybe I slept through it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that would be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One you would want to sleep through, yeah. I don't recall that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. How long was training altogether?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.118693414740344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't remember that. Maybe I slept through it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that would be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One you would want to sleep through, yeah. I don't recall that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. How long was training altogether?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training was, our training was a little longer because we couldn't go until the first Allende and Frei election was held. So that was in September, and we had to stay until we knew that. Now I'm not remembering whether they decided to send us to Puerto Rico during that time or whether we stayed in training. I have the sense that we stayed in training until we found out about the election at Notre Dame, at Notre Dame. So we were there through the beginning of September, which I think was a little longer than usual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a mid-selection as well as a final selection?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.7985482386003815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One you would want to sleep through, yeah. I don't recall that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. How long was training altogether?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training was, our training was a little longer because we couldn't go until the first Allende and Frei election was held. So that was in September, and we had to stay until we knew that. Now I'm not remembering whether they decided to send us to Puerto Rico during that time or whether we stayed in training. I have the sense that we stayed in training until we found out about the election at Notre Dame, at Notre Dame. So we were there through the beginning of September, which I think was a little longer than usual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a mid-selection as well as a final selection?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There did seem, yeah, there was a mid-selection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But don't recall, particularly."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.331720265111535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training was, our training was a little longer because we couldn't go until the first Allende and Frei election was held. So that was in September, and we had to stay until we knew that. Now I'm not remembering whether they decided to send us to Puerto Rico during that time or whether we stayed in training. I have the sense that we stayed in training until we found out about the election at Notre Dame, at Notre Dame. So we were there through the beginning of September, which I think was a little longer than usual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a mid-selection as well as a final selection?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There did seem, yeah, there was a mid-selection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But don't recall, particularly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do remember losing, that was probably when we lost, it seemed like Melvin was the name of the man who was older, and Karen, who was a very beautiful girl, and I don't know what happened there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone from staff attempt to explain the process so that it wasn't so traumatic?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.924133627901705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There did seem, yeah, there was a mid-selection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But don't recall, particularly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do remember losing, that was probably when we lost, it seemed like Melvin was the name of the man who was older, and Karen, who was a very beautiful girl, and I don't know what happened there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone from staff attempt to explain the process so that it wasn't so traumatic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they told us what they were looking for, and we knew and with common sense knew basically, well, you know, you're going to have to be able to fit in down there. They still made a couple of mistakes. I mean, we could have told them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do peer evaluations?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.582370697668561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do remember losing, that was probably when we lost, it seemed like Melvin was the name of the man who was older, and Karen, who was a very beautiful girl, and I don't know what happened there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone from staff attempt to explain the process so that it wasn't so traumatic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they told us what they were looking for, and we knew and with common sense knew basically, well, you know, you're going to have to be able to fit in down there. They still made a couple of mistakes. I mean, we could have told them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do peer evaluations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we did, but I am sure that I can't imagine that anybody would have said anything that would have sent anybody out. I think we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes they did it in terms of, would you choose the three people you'd like to be assigned with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.313745219631735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they told us what they were looking for, and we knew and with common sense knew basically, well, you know, you're going to have to be able to fit in down there. They still made a couple of mistakes. I mean, we could have told them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do peer evaluations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we did, but I am sure that I can't imagine that anybody would have said anything that would have sent anybody out. I think we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes they did it in terms of, would you choose the three people you'd like to be assigned with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And out of that, they can extract something."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.126383577368594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we did, but I am sure that I can't imagine that anybody would have said anything that would have sent anybody out. I think we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes they did it in terms of, would you choose the three people you'd like to be assigned with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And out of that, they can extract something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh they might have done that. Yeah, so I don't remember it if there were any kind of peer evaluation. Everybody would have stonewalled it. You know, nobody would want to be responsible for anybody going out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren't you weren't concerned about being deselected."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.918203974853994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And out of that, they can extract something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh they might have done that. Yeah, so I don't remember it if there were any kind of peer evaluation. Everybody would have stonewalled it. You know, nobody would want to be responsible for anybody going out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren't you weren't concerned about being deselected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would every once in a while worry because of my language. I would worry that I wasn't going to meet the bar in language. I couldn't roll my Rs. I mean, there was a couple of weeks there where I was totally frantic because I couldn't roll my Rs, I mean. But you know, I look back and I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you get extra instruction if you wanted it? I mean, go into the language lab additional hours?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.686893305393327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh they might have done that. Yeah, so I don't remember it if there were any kind of peer evaluation. Everybody would have stonewalled it. You know, nobody would want to be responsible for anybody going out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren't you weren't concerned about being deselected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would every once in a while worry because of my language. I would worry that I wasn't going to meet the bar in language. I couldn't roll my Rs. I mean, there was a couple of weeks there where I was totally frantic because I couldn't roll my Rs, I mean. But you know, I look back and I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you get extra instruction if you wanted it? I mean, go into the language lab additional hours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think you could. But you know, you already in there so many hours. It was hard to imagine going in there anymore. It was almost, I won't say, punitive, but it was a lot of language instruction and a lot. And I thought the audiovisual method was great. I mean, at work, that was the best way to teach, and I don't know if they were leaders in that field and just making it. I don't know if I ever saw it written."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you must have had time for socializing. It wasn't that intense?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.54099256154814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would every once in a while worry because of my language. I would worry that I wasn't going to meet the bar in language. I couldn't roll my Rs. I mean, there was a couple of weeks there where I was totally frantic because I couldn't roll my Rs, I mean. But you know, I look back and I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you get extra instruction if you wanted it? I mean, go into the language lab additional hours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think you could. But you know, you already in there so many hours. It was hard to imagine going in there anymore. It was almost, I won't say, punitive, but it was a lot of language instruction and a lot. And I thought the audiovisual method was great. I mean, at work, that was the best way to teach, and I don't know if they were leaders in that field and just making it. I don't know if I ever saw it written."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you must have had time for socializing. It wasn't that intense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Not at all. There was quite a bit of time for socializing and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume you all went to church on Sunday."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.37888062394238, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think you could. But you know, you already in there so many hours. It was hard to imagine going in there anymore. It was almost, I won't say, punitive, but it was a lot of language instruction and a lot. And I thought the audiovisual method was great. I mean, at work, that was the best way to teach, and I don't know if they were leaders in that field and just making it. I don't know if I ever saw it written."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you must have had time for socializing. It wasn't that intense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Not at all. There was quite a bit of time for socializing and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume you all went to church on Sunday."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, of course, because we were. I don't know if anybody went to church on Sunday, actually. There was a little some kind of snack bar at Notre Dame that people would go and play the jukebox and dance, sometimes even at lunchtime, just for fun. And uh, and we could go off to movies and stuff like that every once in a while. But there wasn't a lot of free time, but there was so much when you weren't when there wasn't free time. You know, within the dorms, there was just so much getting to know each other and spending time with each other. And yeah, and I really liked the people. I really had a great group. I can't imagine anybody saying they didn't have a great group in a certain way, but we had a great group. We really liked each other. We really I thought there were people of great experience. Well, not so much experience, but possibility, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the training was extended at least through the election?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.198756248824866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Not at all. There was quite a bit of time for socializing and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume you all went to church on Sunday."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, of course, because we were. I don't know if anybody went to church on Sunday, actually. There was a little some kind of snack bar at Notre Dame that people would go and play the jukebox and dance, sometimes even at lunchtime, just for fun. And uh, and we could go off to movies and stuff like that every once in a while. But there wasn't a lot of free time, but there was so much when you weren't when there wasn't free time. You know, within the dorms, there was just so much getting to know each other and spending time with each other. And yeah, and I really liked the people. I really had a great group. I can't imagine anybody saying they didn't have a great group in a certain way, but we had a great group. We really liked each other. We really I thought there were people of great experience. Well, not so much experience, but possibility, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the training was extended at least through the election?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least through the election. So I think it was a couple of extra weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they just kept training you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.109729165360962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, of course, because we were. I don't know if anybody went to church on Sunday, actually. There was a little some kind of snack bar at Notre Dame that people would go and play the jukebox and dance, sometimes even at lunchtime, just for fun. And uh, and we could go off to movies and stuff like that every once in a while. But there wasn't a lot of free time, but there was so much when you weren't when there wasn't free time. You know, within the dorms, there was just so much getting to know each other and spending time with each other. And yeah, and I really liked the people. I really had a great group. I can't imagine anybody saying they didn't have a great group in a certain way, but we had a great group. We really liked each other. We really I thought there were people of great experience. Well, not so much experience, but possibility, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the training was extended at least through the election?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least through the election. So I think it was a couple of extra weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they just kept training you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they just kept training us. We just kept getting language and we kept getting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any suggestion you might get home leave before you went?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.010810183734401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least through the election. So I think it was a couple of extra weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they just kept training you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they just kept training us. We just kept getting language and we kept getting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any suggestion you might get home leave before you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it was organized so that we'd go to Puerto Rico for a certain time and then get a week to 10 days, I think, at home to get organized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So final selections held at Notre Dame."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.012011315260446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they just kept training us. We just kept getting language and we kept getting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any suggestion you might get home leave before you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it was organized so that we'd go to Puerto Rico for a certain time and then get a week to 10 days, I think, at home to get organized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So final selections held at Notre Dame."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. Because I don't know if anybody, because they swore us in in Puerto Rico, but I'm sure final selections were made at Notre Dame. And then, you know, they weren't going to select anybody from what happened in Puerto Rico, although they should have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you base that comment on, later performance by some people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.12445701695605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it was organized so that we'd go to Puerto Rico for a certain time and then get a week to 10 days, I think, at home to get organized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So final selections held at Notre Dame."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. Because I don't know if anybody, because they swore us in in Puerto Rico, but I'm sure final selections were made at Notre Dame. And then, you know, they weren't going to select anybody from what happened in Puerto Rico, although they should have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you base that comment on, later performance by some people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, just that we were incredibly rowdy in Puerto Rico. And they were very kind not to deselect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had a sense when you finished at Notre Dame, that you were in, that you weren't under that selection time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.360507796617833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. Because I don't know if anybody, because they swore us in in Puerto Rico, but I'm sure final selections were made at Notre Dame. And then, you know, they weren't going to select anybody from what happened in Puerto Rico, although they should have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you base that comment on, later performance by some people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, just that we were incredibly rowdy in Puerto Rico. And they were very kind not to deselect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had a sense when you finished at Notre Dame, that you were in, that you weren't under that selection time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't feel like I was under the selection case anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to Puerto Rico? I mean, you went from South Bend."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.62278644068648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, just that we were incredibly rowdy in Puerto Rico. And they were very kind not to deselect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had a sense when you finished at Notre Dame, that you were in, that you weren't under that selection time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't feel like I was under the selection case anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to Puerto Rico? I mean, you went from South Bend."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went from South Bend to New York and then flew down to Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 14.025318267429423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't feel like I was under the selection case anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to Puerto Rico? I mean, you went from South Bend."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went from South Bend to New York and then flew down to Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Yeah. Tell me about Puerto Rico because I haven't talked to many people about it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.583686963810471, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went from South Bend to New York and then flew down to Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Yeah. Tell me about Puerto Rico because I haven't talked to many people about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was really an experience that was where I had culture shock because I had, you know, I've never been anywhere. So I had never been in a Caribbean, a Caribbean kind of a culture. A really Hispanic culture in a different kind of way than Chile. Chile is a very cosmopolitan, European oriented. It's not Puerto Rican Americans. Puerto Rica is really Puerto Rican. It was like going into a jungle and meeting the natives. It was so amazing to me to be there. It was hot. Hot and muggy and just so foreign. So foreign in the way it looked, so foreign in the way it felt. The Spanish the Puerto Ricans speak, you know, is at about double the speed of most Spanish that's spoken anywhere in the continental Latin America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Take me through that. You arrived. Someone met you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.204096626456078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Yeah. Tell me about Puerto Rico because I haven't talked to many people about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was really an experience that was where I had culture shock because I had, you know, I've never been anywhere. So I had never been in a Caribbean, a Caribbean kind of a culture. A really Hispanic culture in a different kind of way than Chile. Chile is a very cosmopolitan, European oriented. It's not Puerto Rican Americans. Puerto Rica is really Puerto Rican. It was like going into a jungle and meeting the natives. It was so amazing to me to be there. It was hot. Hot and muggy and just so foreign. So foreign in the way it looked, so foreign in the way it felt. The Spanish the Puerto Ricans speak, you know, is at about double the speed of most Spanish that's spoken anywhere in the continental Latin America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Take me through that. You arrived. Someone met you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We arrived. We stayed at, uh. We arrived. We stayed at a couple of hotels, you know, certainly not high-class hotels initially. And we had a couple of meetings and then they divided us up into pairs or three or four, groups of two or three or four. And they sent us. They had organized for us to go out to different little towns and to either work with someone who was working in community development in that little town or had some kind of project going that we could be helpful with or at least see how they had organized it. The idea was to see how they were working in community development there. It was in cooperatives, but it was community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was all Puerto Ricans you were assigned, there weren't other American counterparts."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.893440696062308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was really an experience that was where I had culture shock because I had, you know, I've never been anywhere. So I had never been in a Caribbean, a Caribbean kind of a culture. A really Hispanic culture in a different kind of way than Chile. Chile is a very cosmopolitan, European oriented. It's not Puerto Rican Americans. Puerto Rica is really Puerto Rican. It was like going into a jungle and meeting the natives. It was so amazing to me to be there. It was hot. Hot and muggy and just so foreign. So foreign in the way it looked, so foreign in the way it felt. The Spanish the Puerto Ricans speak, you know, is at about double the speed of most Spanish that's spoken anywhere in the continental Latin America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Take me through that. You arrived. Someone met you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We arrived. We stayed at, uh. We arrived. We stayed at a couple of hotels, you know, certainly not high-class hotels initially. And we had a couple of meetings and then they divided us up into pairs or three or four, groups of two or three or four. And they sent us. They had organized for us to go out to different little towns and to either work with someone who was working in community development in that little town or had some kind of project going that we could be helpful with or at least see how they had organized it. The idea was to see how they were working in community development there. It was in cooperatives, but it was community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was all Puerto Ricans you were assigned, there weren't other American counterparts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in my particular situation there wasn't. It's hard for me to know what the rest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go out alone or with someone?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.548267440069231, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We arrived. We stayed at, uh. We arrived. We stayed at a couple of hotels, you know, certainly not high-class hotels initially. And we had a couple of meetings and then they divided us up into pairs or three or four, groups of two or three or four. And they sent us. They had organized for us to go out to different little towns and to either work with someone who was working in community development in that little town or had some kind of project going that we could be helpful with or at least see how they had organized it. The idea was to see how they were working in community development there. It was in cooperatives, but it was community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was all Puerto Ricans you were assigned, there weren't other American counterparts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in my particular situation there wasn't. It's hard for me to know what the rest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go out alone or with someone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went out with another person who was going to be in the cooperative group, which was Howard Nelson. He and I were sent to this little town called Naguabo, Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to go into the town, find your own place to live, or was that arranged?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.275852711188034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in my particular situation there wasn't. It's hard for me to know what the rest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go out alone or with someone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went out with another person who was going to be in the cooperative group, which was Howard Nelson. He and I were sent to this little town called Naguabo, Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to go into the town, find your own place to live, or was that arranged?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they had arranged a place for us to stay a house to stay in, you know, with a with a lady that rented out rooms kind of a place like that. He was in the same place. We might have even been in a separate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.973169679097816, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went out with another person who was going to be in the cooperative group, which was Howard Nelson. He and I were sent to this little town called Naguabo, Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to go into the town, find your own place to live, or was that arranged?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they had arranged a place for us to stay a house to stay in, you know, with a with a lady that rented out rooms kind of a place like that. He was in the same place. We might have even been in a separate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you have any sense of what they expected you to get out of the experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.747966310108684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they had arranged a place for us to stay a house to stay in, you know, with a with a lady that rented out rooms kind of a place like that. He was in the same place. We might have even been in a separate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you have any sense of what they expected you to get out of the experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They wanted us to have an intensive Spanish experience. They wanted us to be, you know, even though that we were with near another Peace Corps volunteer. They wanted us to be thrown into the Spanish part, and I think they wanted us. I certainly had the experience and this may be what they wanted, was of being in a, you know, a small town, a rural town, which is where most of us would have been expected to be going. And what that's like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A series of little culture shocks."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.608851455676316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you have any sense of what they expected you to get out of the experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They wanted us to have an intensive Spanish experience. They wanted us to be, you know, even though that we were with near another Peace Corps volunteer. They wanted us to be thrown into the Spanish part, and I think they wanted us. I certainly had the experience and this may be what they wanted, was of being in a, you know, a small town, a rural town, which is where most of us would have been expected to be going. And what that's like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A series of little culture shocks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, lots of culture shocks. You know, the cold shower, the size of the water bugs, which are like giant cockroaches. You can't tell me that's not a cockroach, it was giant however. And being the only blond person in town. Having people go la rubia, la rubia, [kissing noises], everywhere you went. It was really, that was hard. That was really hard. I just felt like, yeah, like on edge all the time, you know? No one ever touched me or made any kind of, you know, untoward approach. It was it just like I just felt like an Exhibit A at the fair or something. People just couldn't help but look at me, you know, I look different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the family you stayed with? Were they supportive?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.016844163506045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Beans and rice and beans and rice. And once in a while a little chicken. But yeah, not a lot of chicken."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were there for the three weeks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there for the three weeks. It was a very difficult three weeks for me because I just felt so out of place and so just shocked. I was just in culture shock. I didn't do a very good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exposed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People were, yeah, I didn't do a very good job of getting to know people. My counterpart, Howard, was just like he just sunk right into it, had this little dictionary with him all the time, como se dice, whatever. He was amazing. He ended up marrying a Chilean woman, and it's just really he just sunk himself right into the culture. It was quite amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it get to the point when you were that you were a little concerned about going to Chile? I mean, if you weren't making it in Puerto Rico?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.907604626117827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there for the three weeks. It was a very difficult three weeks for me because I just felt so out of place and so just shocked. I was just in culture shock. I didn't do a very good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exposed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People were, yeah, I didn't do a very good job of getting to know people. My counterpart, Howard, was just like he just sunk right into it, had this little dictionary with him all the time, como se dice, whatever. He was amazing. He ended up marrying a Chilean woman, and it's just really he just sunk himself right into the culture. It was quite amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it get to the point when you were that you were a little concerned about going to Chile? I mean, if you weren't making it in Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's interesting. I don't remember being worried about going to Chile, I just wanted to get out of Puerto Rico. I just did not like it and the other piece was our group. For whatever reason, we're the only ones in Puerto Rico who weren't getting the Outward Bound training, which I really wanted to get, the Outward Bound training. I thought that was I really liked the idea of getting that training, even though at that point I didn't understand it as much. But I think it would have been quite helpful to me as a human being at the time. I just kind of hungered for that, and we were just out in this little town sort of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I thought you would go in. Yeah. And you knew what kind of training it was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.897338473464252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People were, yeah, I didn't do a very good job of getting to know people. My counterpart, Howard, was just like he just sunk right into it, had this little dictionary with him all the time, como se dice, whatever. He was amazing. He ended up marrying a Chilean woman, and it's just really he just sunk himself right into the culture. It was quite amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it get to the point when you were that you were a little concerned about going to Chile? I mean, if you weren't making it in Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's interesting. I don't remember being worried about going to Chile, I just wanted to get out of Puerto Rico. I just did not like it and the other piece was our group. For whatever reason, we're the only ones in Puerto Rico who weren't getting the Outward Bound training, which I really wanted to get, the Outward Bound training. I thought that was I really liked the idea of getting that training, even though at that point I didn't understand it as much. But I think it would have been quite helpful to me as a human being at the time. I just kind of hungered for that, and we were just out in this little town sort of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I thought you would go in. Yeah. And you knew what kind of training it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, although, of course, were like the stories were overblown about rappelling down cliffs and stuff like that. But we all wanted to do it. We thought it was a part of the whole training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Camp Crozier or Radley?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.997042748293614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's interesting. I don't remember being worried about going to Chile, I just wanted to get out of Puerto Rico. I just did not like it and the other piece was our group. For whatever reason, we're the only ones in Puerto Rico who weren't getting the Outward Bound training, which I really wanted to get, the Outward Bound training. I thought that was I really liked the idea of getting that training, even though at that point I didn't understand it as much. But I think it would have been quite helpful to me as a human being at the time. I just kind of hungered for that, and we were just out in this little town sort of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I thought you would go in. Yeah. And you knew what kind of training it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, although, of course, were like the stories were overblown about rappelling down cliffs and stuff like that. But we all wanted to do it. We thought it was a part of the whole training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Camp Crozier or Radley?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That sounds really familiar. Yeah. I think it must have been that, it's very familiar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those were the first two volunteers who died. They died in a plane crash. And I think they may have been in Colombia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.218936386992905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, although, of course, were like the stories were overblown about rappelling down cliffs and stuff like that. But we all wanted to do it. We thought it was a part of the whole training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Camp Crozier or Radley?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That sounds really familiar. Yeah. I think it must have been that, it's very familiar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those were the first two volunteers who died. They died in a plane crash. And I think they may have been in Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh-huh. And they named the training for them? Oh, that's great. Now, I didn't remember that specifically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So excruciatingly, the three weeks came to an end."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.640662206164079, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh-huh. And they named the training for them? Oh, that's great. Now, I didn't remember that specifically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So excruciatingly, the three weeks came to an end."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, finally. Came to an end and we ended up in, all of us, uh, going back to, uh, what's the main city in Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "San Juan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "San Juan, going back to San Juan and somebody I have no idea how this happened. Most of us were still housed in the Normandy or some other little tacky hotels, but somebody had managed to get a bunch of rooms that, they had talked the, I think it was the Hilton or San Juan Sheraton. Somehow, someone and gone and went, we are poor volunteers, it's our last chance to have a life. Please let us in. And they let us in, a bunch of us, not me. I don't remember, I don't actually remember where I was staying, but they had the best surf in town and I body surfed and I used to sprain my back so that's one of the things I remember that I was in excruciating pain when we did the swearing in ceremony, which was held at the Sheraton I think. And I was very moved by it, but I don't think I was as inebriated as many people were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the rowdy time I gather."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.822958006848976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, finally. Came to an end and we ended up in, all of us, uh, going back to, uh, what's the main city in Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "San Juan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "San Juan, going back to San Juan and somebody I have no idea how this happened. Most of us were still housed in the Normandy or some other little tacky hotels, but somebody had managed to get a bunch of rooms that, they had talked the, I think it was the Hilton or San Juan Sheraton. Somehow, someone and gone and went, we are poor volunteers, it's our last chance to have a life. Please let us in. And they let us in, a bunch of us, not me. I don't remember, I don't actually remember where I was staying, but they had the best surf in town and I body surfed and I used to sprain my back so that's one of the things I remember that I was in excruciating pain when we did the swearing in ceremony, which was held at the Sheraton I think. And I was very moved by it, but I don't think I was as inebriated as many people were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the rowdy time I gather."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was really a rowdy time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After everyone came back from the village experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.136620007609974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "San Juan, going back to San Juan and somebody I have no idea how this happened. Most of us were still housed in the Normandy or some other little tacky hotels, but somebody had managed to get a bunch of rooms that, they had talked the, I think it was the Hilton or San Juan Sheraton. Somehow, someone and gone and went, we are poor volunteers, it's our last chance to have a life. Please let us in. And they let us in, a bunch of us, not me. I don't remember, I don't actually remember where I was staying, but they had the best surf in town and I body surfed and I used to sprain my back so that's one of the things I remember that I was in excruciating pain when we did the swearing in ceremony, which was held at the Sheraton I think. And I was very moved by it, but I don't think I was as inebriated as many people were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the rowdy time I gather."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was really a rowdy time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After everyone came back from the village experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, this was a very rowdy time and it was a very rowdy time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long, a couple of days?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.262911119566636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was really a rowdy time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After everyone came back from the village experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, this was a very rowdy time and it was a very rowdy time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long, a couple of days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A couple of days, yeah, but even probably just. Yeah, probably is two nights like the day we all got in one night and then the next night was the swearing in ceremony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall trying to pump others about their experience if yours had been so difficult?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.514345688407374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, this was a very rowdy time and it was a very rowdy time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long, a couple of days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A couple of days, yeah, but even probably just. Yeah, probably is two nights like the day we all got in one night and then the next night was the swearing in ceremony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall trying to pump others about their experience if yours had been so difficult?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. I mean, I was hearing everybody was talking about what they had done, and yeah, it was quite different. I mean, I think that Howard and I got sent off to quite a small, much smaller town, without quite the whoever was our connecting person. It wasn't a very, uh, didn't do a very good job I don't think. Or I don't remember us really getting to do much in the way of learning about how they ran whatever program there. It was more of an experience of being in the culture and getting through the three weeks. But other people seem to have had more structured kinds of experiences that were in which they felt more like they'd seen some community development projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had the elections been held in Chile by then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.90482854267486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A couple of days, yeah, but even probably just. Yeah, probably is two nights like the day we all got in one night and then the next night was the swearing in ceremony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall trying to pump others about their experience if yours had been so difficult?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. I mean, I was hearing everybody was talking about what they had done, and yeah, it was quite different. I mean, I think that Howard and I got sent off to quite a small, much smaller town, without quite the whoever was our connecting person. It wasn't a very, uh, didn't do a very good job I don't think. Or I don't remember us really getting to do much in the way of learning about how they ran whatever program there. It was more of an experience of being in the culture and getting through the three weeks. But other people seem to have had more structured kinds of experiences that were in which they felt more like they'd seen some community development projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had the elections been held in Chile by then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they had. So we knew that we were going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the impact of the elections on whether you went or not?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.227587269638732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. I mean, I was hearing everybody was talking about what they had done, and yeah, it was quite different. I mean, I think that Howard and I got sent off to quite a small, much smaller town, without quite the whoever was our connecting person. It wasn't a very, uh, didn't do a very good job I don't think. Or I don't remember us really getting to do much in the way of learning about how they ran whatever program there. It was more of an experience of being in the culture and getting through the three weeks. But other people seem to have had more structured kinds of experiences that were in which they felt more like they'd seen some community development projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had the elections been held in Chile by then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they had. So we knew that we were going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the impact of the elections on whether you went or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Frei was the Christian Democrat. And if we went down, of course he would send us. He would accept us. But if Allende was elected, he was backed by a coalition, including communists and socialists, and they would not have invited us down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So you were aware of that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.69731918848748, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they had. So we knew that we were going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the impact of the elections on whether you went or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Frei was the Christian Democrat. And if we went down, of course he would send us. He would accept us. But if Allende was elected, he was backed by a coalition, including communists and socialists, and they would not have invited us down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So you were aware of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were aware that they did not want us if they, the coalition could not in good conscience invite the Peace Corps down. So we knew that if Frei won, we were in. And if he lost, we were out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you sobered up."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.330354653874977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Frei was the Christian Democrat. And if we went down, of course he would send us. He would accept us. But if Allende was elected, he was backed by a coalition, including communists and socialists, and they would not have invited us down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. So you were aware of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were aware that they did not want us if they, the coalition could not in good conscience invite the Peace Corps down. So we knew that if Frei won, we were in. And if he lost, we were out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you sobered up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we sobered up, we went home, got ourselves home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.922616282083306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were aware that they did not want us if they, the coalition could not in good conscience invite the Peace Corps down. So we knew that if Frei won, we were in. And if he lost, we were out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you sobered up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we sobered up, we went home, got ourselves home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm pretty sure it was a week might have been 10 days. I don't know exactly. I do remember, I just remember that I had a lot to get together and uh, you know, we had to get our trunks ready to go and we had ordered sleeping bags, like as a group gotten together and ordered sleeping bags, and they were sent to our houses. So our sleeping bags that arrived. And it was, you know, I had never traveled. I mean, I realized later in my life, I didn't know then how green I was. You just don't know, you know, you don't even know what you don't know. And so I don't know. I just went home and put my clothes in the trunk and packed a little suitcase and went off. I had no sense. They'd done a good job of giving me a list of what you got to take with you. Take extra tampons and all that kind of stuff. Because who knows how long before you figure out how to do that, you know? But um, I just remember being very, very excited and couldn't wait to go get down there. You know, I didn't have the sense to be scared, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, a lot of enthusiasm in what you were doing. Were you hosted and wined and dined for the week you were home? I mean, the local paper, the friends of the family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.69179586898145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we sobered up, we went home, got ourselves home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm pretty sure it was a week might have been 10 days. I don't know exactly. I do remember, I just remember that I had a lot to get together and uh, you know, we had to get our trunks ready to go and we had ordered sleeping bags, like as a group gotten together and ordered sleeping bags, and they were sent to our houses. So our sleeping bags that arrived. And it was, you know, I had never traveled. I mean, I realized later in my life, I didn't know then how green I was. You just don't know, you know, you don't even know what you don't know. And so I don't know. I just went home and put my clothes in the trunk and packed a little suitcase and went off. I had no sense. They'd done a good job of giving me a list of what you got to take with you. Take extra tampons and all that kind of stuff. Because who knows how long before you figure out how to do that, you know? But um, I just remember being very, very excited and couldn't wait to go get down there. You know, I didn't have the sense to be scared, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, a lot of enthusiasm in what you were doing. Were you hosted and wined and dined for the week you were home? I mean, the local paper, the friends of the family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, all of my friends, I certainly visited all of my friends who were, you know, still hadn't gone someplace from gone to graduate school somewhere or something?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the town in Nevada?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.13801959133512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, all of my friends, I certainly visited all of my friends who were, you know, still hadn't gone someplace from gone to graduate school somewhere or something?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the town in Nevada?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Reno. Yeah, all my friends, I went out with everybody in and we had a great time and we'd go down to the clubs, you know, because down there you go down to the clubs and watch different entertainment stuff. We weren't much for gambling. And if you live there, you're probably not much for gambling. And really, it was a wonderful time. I had a great time in that period of time. I think what was missing was any sense of organization around the packing, but my family did finally get that trunk off to me. So I did get it somewhere around Christmas and we left around the middle of October."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do meet in New York?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We once again met in New York and then flew down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By charter was it or just how big was the group at this point? It was the credit union plus future co-op ed people."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.281505668314963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We once again met in New York and then flew down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By charter was it or just how big was the group at this point? It was the credit union plus future co-op ed people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, so it was all the whole group. I really should know this. It's probably in the range of about 30 something.\n\nI don't remember anybody else on the plane, but that could be just selective memory. I remember us, but it seemed to me it was just a regular airline. We just had booked most of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To Chile?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Chile, stopped in Panama. It was one of those times when, you know, people jumped off the plane said, oh, we're going to go change our money to escudos, we'll get a much better deal here. I had no clue. Plus, I had no money. So it was like, what was I going to change? I had no, you know, I was going to get a salary down there. I was so green."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Arrived in Santiago?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.535006298127737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, so it was all the whole group. I really should know this. It's probably in the range of about 30 something.\n\nI don't remember anybody else on the plane, but that could be just selective memory. I remember us, but it seemed to me it was just a regular airline. We just had booked most of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To Chile?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Chile, stopped in Panama. It was one of those times when, you know, people jumped off the plane said, oh, we're going to go change our money to escudos, we'll get a much better deal here. I had no clue. Plus, I had no money. So it was like, what was I going to change? I had no, you know, I was going to get a salary down there. I was so green."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Arrived in Santiago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Arrived in Santiago, LAN Chile Airlines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any kind of official government reception or I mean, it seems to me it was a little touch and go for a while?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 19.48334033125304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Chile, stopped in Panama. It was one of those times when, you know, people jumped off the plane said, oh, we're going to go change our money to escudos, we'll get a much better deal here. I had no clue. Plus, I had no money. So it was like, what was I going to change? I had no, you know, I was going to get a salary down there. I was so green."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Arrived in Santiago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Arrived in Santiago, LAN Chile Airlines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any kind of official government reception or I mean, it seems to me it was a little touch and go for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, they were fine. I mean, then it was, you know, I think it was had been a Christian democratic government before, and it was just, you know, Frei. It just went on. So it wasn't as if that other somebody who was adverse to us was in. And of course, the Peace Corps was pretty well organized. If we were like the eighth group in, they were very well organized. I remember some meetings at a hotel during which they told us where we were going to be stationed and introducing us to the Peace Corps staff, one of whom ironically I had. When I was home on my little break, I saw a friend of mine who was going out with a young man who was from Chile. And he said, oh, my cousin Sergio works for the Peace Corps down there. You must say hello to him. So of course I found Sergio. I said hello. And then I was just enveloped in this huge whole family because I had, you know, spent half an hour talking to the son of this family who was studying in the United States. It was just, of course, the thing about South America is that incredible hospitality. I mean, it's yeah, it was just the most amazing force of energy that the welcoming in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is when you were still in Santiago?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.896113902229905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my initial weekend there, I'm off to this Chilean family. They just took me in. They were so sweet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume many of them were bilingual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Sergio was the one who spoke English. People did know some English. I mean, we could make ourselves, which was good because my Spanish was pretty poor, it was pretty freaked. You know how your brain isn't working at first. But yeah, they spoke a little English, not that much. Nobody was really fluent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you were faced with using Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, really faced with it. I was really listening and really paying attention to how I don't know just all of how people say things, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And while you were in Santiago, you then got the word that you and several others were going?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.106793224699894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Sergio was the one who spoke English. People did know some English. I mean, we could make ourselves, which was good because my Spanish was pretty poor, it was pretty freaked. You know how your brain isn't working at first. But yeah, they spoke a little English, not that much. Nobody was really fluent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you were faced with using Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, really faced with it. I was really listening and really paying attention to how I don't know just all of how people say things, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And while you were in Santiago, you then got the word that you and several others were going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To be stationed in Santiago doing cooperative education, which was with a specific Chilean organization that did cooperative education. So we were to work with that, ICEIT, I think it was. And we were to work with them. And that was pretty distressing for the guys especially, because they really wanted to go out into the Campo. That was where the most of the credit union people, certainly the fishing people. The fishing guys went up to Antofagasta and Iquique or something in the northern part where there were some fishing co-ops or where they organized them, one or the other. But most of the group, some of that group was in Santiago, where there were a lot of credit co-ops. So some of that group stayed and then others were sent down to different credit union co-ops throughout the country. And that was more the adventure that we had been prepared for that community development slash credit union. That was our vision of what it was going to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whose decision was it that you go into this credit, the co-op ed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.229770249666549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, really faced with it. I was really listening and really paying attention to how I don't know just all of how people say things, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And while you were in Santiago, you then got the word that you and several others were going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To be stationed in Santiago doing cooperative education, which was with a specific Chilean organization that did cooperative education. So we were to work with that, ICEIT, I think it was. And we were to work with them. And that was pretty distressing for the guys especially, because they really wanted to go out into the Campo. That was where the most of the credit union people, certainly the fishing people. The fishing guys went up to Antofagasta and Iquique or something in the northern part where there were some fishing co-ops or where they organized them, one or the other. But most of the group, some of that group was in Santiago, where there were a lot of credit co-ops. So some of that group stayed and then others were sent down to different credit union co-ops throughout the country. And that was more the adventure that we had been prepared for that community development slash credit union. That was our vision of what it was going to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whose decision was it that you go into this credit, the co-op ed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That Peace Corps, whoever they are. Yeah, I mean, I would imagine that the reps in the country had tried to decide how to place people, and they had a couple of sponsoring organizations. One was the credit union cooperatives and then the other was this education group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had other volunteers done this co-op ed, or were you the first to branch off?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.477522499629499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To be stationed in Santiago doing cooperative education, which was with a specific Chilean organization that did cooperative education. So we were to work with that, ICEIT, I think it was. And we were to work with them. And that was pretty distressing for the guys especially, because they really wanted to go out into the Campo. That was where the most of the credit union people, certainly the fishing people. The fishing guys went up to Antofagasta and Iquique or something in the northern part where there were some fishing co-ops or where they organized them, one or the other. But most of the group, some of that group was in Santiago, where there were a lot of credit co-ops. So some of that group stayed and then others were sent down to different credit union co-ops throughout the country. And that was more the adventure that we had been prepared for that community development slash credit union. That was our vision of what it was going to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whose decision was it that you go into this credit, the co-op ed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That Peace Corps, whoever they are. Yeah, I mean, I would imagine that the reps in the country had tried to decide how to place people, and they had a couple of sponsoring organizations. One was the credit union cooperatives and then the other was this education group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had other volunteers done this co-op ed, or were you the first to branch off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were the first to be doing that. I don't think there, because I don't, I'm sure there were no other co-op. There were no other Peace Corps volunteers there showing us how to do this or working with that agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the arrangement then, as far as living, your living allowance and so forth?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.700645061270984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were the first to be doing that. I don't think there, because I don't, I'm sure there were no other co-op. There were no other Peace Corps volunteers there showing us how to do this or working with that agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the arrangement then, as far as living, your living allowance and so forth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The living allowance was the same for everybody, although was a lot more expensive to live in Santiago, of course, being a city. And we were supposed to find places to live, although the Peace Corps kind of helped us with this, but we kind of had to go and talk to people and interview people. And usually it was kind of like trying to find a room in somebody's house or something like that. That was the ideal. And I found this. My first living situation was actually with a widow and her son, and she had a room that she wanted to rent. But it was in kind of a pretty modern-looking high-rise building on the fourth floor and the apartment overlooked La Moneda, which is the presidential, the old presidential palace. It was the seat of government. And the one that got bombed when Allende took over. And then there was the plaza, uh, Plaza de Armas I guess. It was right in front and the changing of the guard every morning there and stuff. It was very cool to be there, you know, and I was just renting a room and but this lady was pretty, a pretty middle class lady. And it wasn't the best. I mean, it really wasn't the best situation for me, either, because I wasn't, I was really renting a room. I mean, she wasn't really that familial with me and she had a maid, you know? And I don't know, it was kind of a strange situation, but it was OK. And then the Peace Corps decided that it was too elegant. It was too nice a place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it include meals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were dining with her?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.445240816383931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were dining with her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it was, well, I kind of had to eat the kitchen. I ate with the little boy sometimes when she wasn't around and that he and I formed a little bit, a little bit of a relationship. But I really was as if I was kind of a second-class citizen, which was OK, you know, I didn't. It was very hard for me to figure out, to figure that relationship out. I'd never been in any circumstance in which there was kind of a class leveling. There's more of a European idea of class in in Chile."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But hadn't Peace Corps advised you that, I mean, Santiago must be divided into neighborhoods of middle class, upper class, lower class? Did you have any sense that, you know, there were places that was OK to live or might be hazardous?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, I guess they did say, well, you know, we're not going to put you out in, you know, in this area because this is kind of a tough area or something like that. But we just kind of, we're up to finding our own place. I remember one of my friends was in a pension just kind of in town, you know, just in a pension."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at this time now you have reported to work at?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.660791131338186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, I guess they did say, well, you know, we're not going to put you out in, you know, in this area because this is kind of a tough area or something like that. But we just kind of, we're up to finding our own place. I remember one of my friends was in a pension just kind of in town, you know, just in a pension."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at this time now you have reported to work at?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Instituto Cooperativa, the education cooperative. So this little organization. Yes, they had an office in downtown Santiago and we would go to that office and they did not really know what to do with us. And we kind of it was up to each of us to figure that out in some way. What, how can we do this cooperative education? I had the experience, though, of having done that internship in this television station, and it turned out that one of the very large cooperatives, it was a department store called Co-op in Part, had purchased some television time and canal, Channel 13, the University of Chile television station. University of Chile or Católica, how could I forget that? I don't know, one of the two universities. And they had purchased some time, a half an hour slot, and they wanted us to fill that, you know, and I got tapped for that just because I had set foot in a television station beforehand. And of course, we're supposed to be able to write, you know, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now who was calling the shots on at this point on assignment, the Chilean officials? Or was it some Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At this point, it was the man who was the head of this ICEIT, the cooperative organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was Chilean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.845323479264652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Instituto Cooperativa, the education cooperative. So this little organization. Yes, they had an office in downtown Santiago and we would go to that office and they did not really know what to do with us. And we kind of it was up to each of us to figure that out in some way. What, how can we do this cooperative education? I had the experience, though, of having done that internship in this television station, and it turned out that one of the very large cooperatives, it was a department store called Co-op in Part, had purchased some television time and canal, Channel 13, the University of Chile television station. University of Chile or Católica, how could I forget that? I don't know, one of the two universities. And they had purchased some time, a half an hour slot, and they wanted us to fill that, you know, and I got tapped for that just because I had set foot in a television station beforehand. And of course, we're supposed to be able to write, you know, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now who was calling the shots on at this point on assignment, the Chilean officials? Or was it some Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At this point, it was the man who was the head of this ICEIT, the cooperative organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was Chilean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was Chilean. Isidore Hill. And he and I guess whoever worked underneath him were the people who decided what to do with us. You know, how we could be useful. So I got this sort of mandate to do this television program. And I was like, whoo! It was very fascinating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was the assignment was just you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.16147053251628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At this point, it was the man who was the head of this ICEIT, the cooperative organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was Chilean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was Chilean. Isidore Hill. And he and I guess whoever worked underneath him were the people who decided what to do with us. You know, how we could be useful. So I got this sort of mandate to do this television program. And I was like, whoo! It was very fascinating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was the assignment was just you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And for work, did you report to the TV station or did you go through the office? And then there, I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.5127450361292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was Chilean. Isidore Hill. And he and I guess whoever worked underneath him were the people who decided what to do with us. You know, how we could be useful. So I got this sort of mandate to do this television program. And I was like, whoo! It was very fascinating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was the assignment was just you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And for work, did you report to the TV station or did you go through the office? And then there, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They kind of just said, go talk to the people at, you know, Canal Trece and tell them that, you know, you're going to be doing this. So that was, there must have I must have a meeting at which I told them, well, I'm the person assigned to do this. And how do I, who do I work with and stuff? And I was assigned to work with the director, a television director who was in charge of, I guess, the maybe public service television, what we would think of as public service television. And initially, what I did was go to the library and find every film I could find on cooperatives. I mean, the cooperative movement's very big down there already. All of their rural electricity is done through cooperatives, huge use of cooperatives as an organizing element and as a way of organizing people in small in rural areas to be able to get electricity or irrigation or water or whatever. I mean, the government was using cooperatives enormously, and I think it was really directly from the Frei administration. Let's try to use cooperatives as much as we can to organize people. And so this was a good idea in a certain way to do cooperative education as well. Of course, how many people in 1964 in Chile had television sets even? Really only really wealthy people. Certainly none of the poor little cooperative people, people in the cooperatives didn't have TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but you were writing for them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.746906014524004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a clear job to do. I had a clear job. Well, I made a clear job to do, you know? I mean, I decided to produce it myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there no Chilean who could do what you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm sure there were many who could have done it better. Yeah, I'm sure many Chileans could have done it better. Of course, they spoke the language better. They'd have had more entree, you know? Yeah, I think they could have done certainly done it better. But they weren't free, I guess. You know what I mean? I was a volunteer. I was available to do it. Nobody had to pay my wages to produce this show. It was called La Revolución Silencio, the quiet revolution, which of course, now I realize was probably totally the wrong kind of name to give it. That was from my, you know, it should have been Up, Up, and Away with Cooperatives, something much more cheerful. But I was in my, you know, silent revolution era. So yeah, it got called. And uh, we did. I think that, you know, as my Spanish got better, I would write a script and then of course, somebody there would translate it into much better Spanish than I was able to do at that time. You can imagine my verbs were not that good yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were doing the initial draft."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would do the initial draft and the initial draft was certainly cued to the photographs. So whatever they put it, had to go with that. So then someone would write it in really good Spanish and then it would just get put on the air live. I'm sure it was done live. Yeah, most things were done live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the meantime, you've changed your living accommodations."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.56408149941235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would do the initial draft and the initial draft was certainly cued to the photographs. So whatever they put it, had to go with that. So then someone would write it in really good Spanish and then it would just get put on the air live. I'm sure it was done live. Yeah, most things were done live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the meantime, you've changed your living accommodations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't know how many months I spent with that first living place, but the Peace Corps contacted me and said, this is a little too nice where you're staying and you have to find something less nice. And so they I mean, I don't remember how I found the next living place, which was another room. I mean, as you know, it's usually the maid's room. It was the maid's room in an apartment with a woman who lived by herself, who was kind of, interestingly, a career woman. I don't remember what she worked in, but she was friendly and, but it was not as good a part of town, you know, so that made them feel more secure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any political implication that you were in a building overlooking the presidential palace?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you know, I never thought about that. I actually absolutely was so, you know, not even thinking in a political sense in that way. I don't think it was that so much. It's just that it was a little too nice for the image that the Peace Corps was trying to obtain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's the way you understood it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.626757221569276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't know how many months I spent with that first living place, but the Peace Corps contacted me and said, this is a little too nice where you're staying and you have to find something less nice. And so they I mean, I don't remember how I found the next living place, which was another room. I mean, as you know, it's usually the maid's room. It was the maid's room in an apartment with a woman who lived by herself, who was kind of, interestingly, a career woman. I don't remember what she worked in, but she was friendly and, but it was not as good a part of town, you know, so that made them feel more secure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any political implication that you were in a building overlooking the presidential palace?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you know, I never thought about that. I actually absolutely was so, you know, not even thinking in a political sense in that way. I don't think it was that so much. It's just that it was a little too nice for the image that the Peace Corps was trying to obtain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's the way you understood it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's how I understood it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had no argument with that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.807508023965863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you know, I never thought about that. I actually absolutely was so, you know, not even thinking in a political sense in that way. I don't think it was that so much. It's just that it was a little too nice for the image that the Peace Corps was trying to obtain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's the way you understood it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's how I understood it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had no argument with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I said, OK, I'm you know, that's fine with me. You know, I'll move. So I found another place and it was kind of a like a half basement kind of an apartment. Yeah, which was where I lived through a rather severe earthquake they had there. And I was, I guess, really lucky to be in the basement. I'm not even sure. But boy, there was there was a really severe earthquake while we were down there. And but ironically, the only people I think who were injured in it were people who got so scared they jumped out the window. Chileans are horrified and terribly terrified, at least at that time. They just were terrified of earthquakes because of course, there's so much more destruction. The buildings aren't built as well and they're old. They're just terrified of earthquakes. And this was a really, really. I remember some of the little ornamental knobs on the top of La Moneda were hanging off like this? It was quite destructive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was that? In your second year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.675008915517626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's how I understood it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had no argument with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I said, OK, I'm you know, that's fine with me. You know, I'll move. So I found another place and it was kind of a like a half basement kind of an apartment. Yeah, which was where I lived through a rather severe earthquake they had there. And I was, I guess, really lucky to be in the basement. I'm not even sure. But boy, there was there was a really severe earthquake while we were down there. And but ironically, the only people I think who were injured in it were people who got so scared they jumped out the window. Chileans are horrified and terribly terrified, at least at that time. They just were terrified of earthquakes because of course, there's so much more destruction. The buildings aren't built as well and they're old. They're just terrified of earthquakes. And this was a really, really. I remember some of the little ornamental knobs on the top of La Moneda were hanging off like this? It was quite destructive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was that? In your second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to think, no, it probably would have still been within the first year. So probably '65. Like, like February, I would think it was in February of '65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps immediately arrange communication back to your families?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.638898795019584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I said, OK, I'm you know, that's fine with me. You know, I'll move. So I found another place and it was kind of a like a half basement kind of an apartment. Yeah, which was where I lived through a rather severe earthquake they had there. And I was, I guess, really lucky to be in the basement. I'm not even sure. But boy, there was there was a really severe earthquake while we were down there. And but ironically, the only people I think who were injured in it were people who got so scared they jumped out the window. Chileans are horrified and terribly terrified, at least at that time. They just were terrified of earthquakes because of course, there's so much more destruction. The buildings aren't built as well and they're old. They're just terrified of earthquakes. And this was a really, really. I remember some of the little ornamental knobs on the top of La Moneda were hanging off like this? It was quite destructive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was that? In your second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to think, no, it probably would have still been within the first year. So probably '65. Like, like February, I would think it was in February of '65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps immediately arrange communication back to your families?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, what a question. I have no idea. I don't know because you know, we really had no, no communication. The only communication we had were ham operators and someone knew a ham operator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no telephone service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.59877643891065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to think, no, it probably would have still been within the first year. So probably '65. Like, like February, I would think it was in February of '65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps immediately arrange communication back to your families?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, what a question. I have no idea. I don't know because you know, we really had no, no communication. The only communication we had were ham operators and someone knew a ham operator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no telephone service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if there was, I couldn't afford to call home. I don't remember people calling home. I really don't know. It's pretty strange because I'm sure there was that capability in '64. But we just didn't do it, you know. It's kind of interesting to think where was the communication system at that time? But I know that the one time the one time I did talk to my family was through a ham operator. Might have been twice. And we went over to this person's house and they made contact with somebody in the States. I remember it was a guy in Texas and he patched us through so we could talk to our families. It was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it soon after the earthquake or not?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.554196043234054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, what a question. I have no idea. I don't know because you know, we really had no, no communication. The only communication we had were ham operators and someone knew a ham operator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no telephone service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if there was, I couldn't afford to call home. I don't remember people calling home. I really don't know. It's pretty strange because I'm sure there was that capability in '64. But we just didn't do it, you know. It's kind of interesting to think where was the communication system at that time? But I know that the one time the one time I did talk to my family was through a ham operator. Might have been twice. And we went over to this person's house and they made contact with somebody in the States. I remember it was a guy in Texas and he patched us through so we could talk to our families. It was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it soon after the earthquake or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think it's totally unrelated to the earthquake, and I have no idea. Isn't that interesting? Since nobody was injured in it of our Peace Corps group, you know, I guess we just thought, OK, that's done. We have no idea if people back home are going, oh my god, are they alive? Which I suppose they could have contacted the Peace Corps, you know, national Peace Corps, you know, are they OK? And I think that other Peace Corps volunteers were more attuned to the idea that they could make contact somehow with United States? I wasn't. I would just write letters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The earthquake, but during your first year, you settled into working at the TV station?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.50466227026006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if there was, I couldn't afford to call home. I don't remember people calling home. I really don't know. It's pretty strange because I'm sure there was that capability in '64. But we just didn't do it, you know. It's kind of interesting to think where was the communication system at that time? But I know that the one time the one time I did talk to my family was through a ham operator. Might have been twice. And we went over to this person's house and they made contact with somebody in the States. I remember it was a guy in Texas and he patched us through so we could talk to our families. It was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it soon after the earthquake or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think it's totally unrelated to the earthquake, and I have no idea. Isn't that interesting? Since nobody was injured in it of our Peace Corps group, you know, I guess we just thought, OK, that's done. We have no idea if people back home are going, oh my god, are they alive? Which I suppose they could have contacted the Peace Corps, you know, national Peace Corps, you know, are they OK? And I think that other Peace Corps volunteers were more attuned to the idea that they could make contact somehow with United States? I wasn't. I would just write letters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The earthquake, but during your first year, you settled into working at the TV station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, and then there was a wonderful piece of luck. The Peace Corps camera was stolen. The 16-millimeter camera. And so I by default, got the film from the Peace Corps, all this film they had, because they couldn't afford to buy a new camera right now. So they had this whole bunch of film and they gave me the film. And now my show had movement and we could go out and shoot film, silent film with voiceover, but much better than still pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Black and white or color?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.679564502758815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I actually would talk to other volunteers and find out about what kinds of projects they were working on. It really was. And you know, it's interesting to me. The cooperative education organization was not the source of my leads about these different, credit unions, which is, there's different cooperatives, which I now find very strange. You know, they really should have been, that should have been the way that I connected with the different cooperatives. But I think, you know, once they gave me the project, I just went with it and it just hardly dawned on me to go back and say. I don't even know if they noticed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren't looking at bigger circles, you know, had a very specific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very specific and I didn't, you know, I didn't try. It's kind of part of personally where I was at, that I just didn't really think to network out and try to make it bigger in any way. You know, I just was nose to the ground saying, oh, I've got another show next week I've got to write."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming on to the end of the first year, was there a gathering of the group and a sort of conference and medical work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was. That was a wonderful conference. We were so glad to see each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you sober?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.643960558620906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very specific and I didn't, you know, I didn't try. It's kind of part of personally where I was at, that I just didn't really think to network out and try to make it bigger in any way. You know, I just was nose to the ground saying, oh, I've got another show next week I've got to write."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming on to the end of the first year, was there a gathering of the group and a sort of conference and medical work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was. That was a wonderful conference. We were so glad to see each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you sober?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh yeah. We were a lot more sober and people were. It was, though, like seeing your family after not having seen them for all that time. It was our family. And I just remember it being a really wonderful to see everybody hearing all these stories from people because it was some people, we saw them when we got there, we saw them at that middle conference and we saw them at the end maybe, maybe, probably not. I don't even remember there being. There must have been, but I don't remember there being a final get together of the group at the end of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in touch with more of the group because of the work you would do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.715511731801007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was. That was a wonderful conference. We were so glad to see each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you sober?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh yeah. We were a lot more sober and people were. It was, though, like seeing your family after not having seen them for all that time. It was our family. And I just remember it being a really wonderful to see everybody hearing all these stories from people because it was some people, we saw them when we got there, we saw them at that middle conference and we saw them at the end maybe, maybe, probably not. I don't even remember there being. There must have been, but I don't remember there being a final get together of the group at the end of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in touch with more of the group because of the work you would do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I really was. And then because when people came in to Santiago. My third place I lived, I lived with another volunteer. We got an apartment. Now I don't know why that was OK, but it was OK. And the apartment was pretty centrally located in Santiago. And people would come into town and they'd take a bath at our house and, you know, and so we saw many of the volunteers as they came in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. At the end of the first year, the conference, did you have any sense of oh, looking ahead, looking back, I mean, what was your feeling contemplating a second year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.22902682938396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I really was. And then because when people came in to Santiago. My third place I lived, I lived with another volunteer. We got an apartment. Now I don't know why that was OK, but it was OK. And the apartment was pretty centrally located in Santiago. And people would come into town and they'd take a bath at our house and, you know, and so we saw many of the volunteers as they came in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. At the end of the first year, the conference, did you have any sense of oh, looking ahead, looking back, I mean, what was your feeling contemplating a second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my own project, of course, was rolling along, so I was feeling fine about my work. There were many people in the group who were pretty unhappy. A lot of the guys who had been stationed in the Santiago area were very unhappy and either before or right at that point, they what they took it upon themselves to find another project and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tape three."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was saying that several of the other volunteers had decided that they wanted to be out in the Campo. They wanted to go, to leave Santiago, and so they got their own projects and went or went down south or somehow managed to get a different project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had no sense of that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.698918699315511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my own project, of course, was rolling along, so I was feeling fine about my work. There were many people in the group who were pretty unhappy. A lot of the guys who had been stationed in the Santiago area were very unhappy and either before or right at that point, they what they took it upon themselves to find another project and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tape three."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was saying that several of the other volunteers had decided that they wanted to be out in the Campo. They wanted to go, to leave Santiago, and so they got their own projects and went or went down south or somehow managed to get a different project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had no sense of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't need to. I really was so busy doing it, and it seemed to be getting better and better, you know? I mean, I felt like I was getting better, certainly at writing the scripts. And we were now, you know, we had the film and we were able to film and it was really felt like we were turning out some better programing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your language improving?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.332131888128345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was saying that several of the other volunteers had decided that they wanted to be out in the Campo. They wanted to go, to leave Santiago, and so they got their own projects and went or went down south or somehow managed to get a different project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had no sense of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't need to. I really was so busy doing it, and it seemed to be getting better and better, you know? I mean, I felt like I was getting better, certainly at writing the scripts. And we were now, you know, we had the film and we were able to film and it was really felt like we were turning out some better programing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your language improving?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My language was improving a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In doing this work? To whom were you accountable? I mean, where do you get the feedback as to whether it was of any value, whether anyone was looking, you know, that sort of thing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 17.035702097920385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't need to. I really was so busy doing it, and it seemed to be getting better and better, you know? I mean, I felt like I was getting better, certainly at writing the scripts. And we were now, you know, we had the film and we were able to film and it was really felt like we were turning out some better programing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your language improving?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My language was improving a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In doing this work? To whom were you accountable? I mean, where do you get the feedback as to whether it was of any value, whether anyone was looking, you know, that sort of thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, that is interesting because really, it should have been our rep at that point should have been the person who would have given me a sense of, I don't know, who would have looked at the project and said, well, I guess that's OK. Or the Institute of Cooperative Education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Or your immediate boss at the TV station?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.165526745801532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they did not caution me in that way. They did help to smooth it over, but they really didn't. They really didn't say, Jesus, watch what you do, you know? And even if they did, you know, how do you know when you're doing something? It didn't seem that revolutionary to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was this in the first or second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was in the second year. So this was like, you know, we're getting much better in our programing by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the left wing, from the radical politicians. Were there criticisms in the paper of the Peace Corps accusations of being CIA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or, you know, I don't remember seeing those kinds of stories in the paper, but there are certainly it was common to have people say that to us. It was common to have when you were met with people, students or people of our own age, have people you know and have people say, oh, you know, well, who knows if you're CIA. And you know, we totally trusted each other, had no belief at all that our group had any CIA people and it might have been foolish. I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I mean, how do you prove your innocence?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.829254795338178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. And, you know, watching other people doing their part? I don't know. We were. I just felt that, you know, of course, anybody who was CIA would certainly have looked just as, as, you know, dedicated as I did. But in my heart, I truly couldn't believe that about any of my fellow Chile XIII group, right? And we were down there, you know, when Johnson sent troops into the Dominican Republic. So that would be '65, I think that was when that happened. And boy, they did not like that in Chile. And you know, Chileans, the students especially are very active, very political. When we got down to that country after that election, you know, a month or so after the election, the entire country was painted by Andean Frei. I mean, everywhere you looked, everywhere you look, there was still the vestiges of that campaign. It was really hot.\n\nAnd many more people are involved and even poor people will be discussing, you know, it's not like they go, oh, well, it doesn't matter to me. I'm poor. Everyone was involved in politics. So you know, when that happened, they were burning the American flag out in the park. You know, it was very shocking to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point, did you feel threatened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only that one day when they were burning the American flag out in the park. We like stayed in the local little restaurant where we spent a lot of time. We just stayed there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone ever confront you, any Chilean person, confront you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not directly. No. I mean, we'd get into wild discussions with people sometimes and, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More barroom discussions."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.921394217042419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only that one day when they were burning the American flag out in the park. We like stayed in the local little restaurant where we spent a lot of time. We just stayed there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone ever confront you, any Chilean person, confront you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not directly. No. I mean, we'd get into wild discussions with people sometimes and, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More barroom discussions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, more that kind of stuff. No one ever was threatening in any way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On that score through the first year, did you work a five day a week and then have weekends free?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.023771352269355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not directly. No. I mean, we'd get into wild discussions with people sometimes and, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More barroom discussions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, more that kind of stuff. No one ever was threatening in any way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On that score through the first year, did you work a five day a week and then have weekends free?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were listed. It was like that if I was a little bit different because if I was trying to write a script, sometimes I just had to stay at it till I got it done. And it was hard writing in Spanish and it didn't ever really get good, you know? But most people basically would work, you know, would work. And then on the weekends, they were often would go visit or go do stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any pressure from the Peace Corps office to be, you know, the 24-hour volunteer and to be doing other things?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.248634835854839, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, more that kind of stuff. No one ever was threatening in any way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On that score through the first year, did you work a five day a week and then have weekends free?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were listed. It was like that if I was a little bit different because if I was trying to write a script, sometimes I just had to stay at it till I got it done. And it was hard writing in Spanish and it didn't ever really get good, you know? But most people basically would work, you know, would work. And then on the weekends, they were often would go visit or go do stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any pressure from the Peace Corps office to be, you know, the 24-hour volunteer and to be doing other things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were pretty much free, you did your job."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.121771402289925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were pretty much free, you did your job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did my job and I cut every, you know, to tell you the truth. I mean, I do not remember anybody paying any attention to my project, except for me really. Well, nobody. And the one time that that thing happened with the empleiades, but that was it. You know, I mean, I don't remember a Peace Corps rep coming and talking to me about it. I don't remember anybody reviewing it. I just don't remember any interest at all, which was fine with me. And even at the cooperative education organization was the more likely, you know, they were the ones you would think would be saying, how's it going? You know, and would have been upset about the empleiades. I think that's why I left town was I don't want to talk to them till they cooled down, you know, because they were probably getting the heat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but they didn't really ever give me a hard time about it, but they didn't say much of anything. They were kind of happy that I wasn't coming back to them and saying, you're not doing a good job here of overseeing me or, you know, I mean, they were just glad to have one less person who was saying, I'm not happy. Because the other volunteers often I think there were individuals felt just like, this is useless what I'm doing here. And that's why several of our groups, of course, did go down and find another project at about the midpoint."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, if any, did many go home before the end of the service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.367186369574885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I did a show about it. Yep, I interviewed everybody. We shot film and we did a show about it, you know? And it really was to illustrate this problem of the absentee landlords and the fact that people are oppressed by this. There's no reason in the world for these people not to be able to farm this land. And make the profit from it for this guy who's off in France."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you still didn't know the demographics of the TV audience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No clue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Over the assumption that if you could afford a TV set, you were not a campesino, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And that, you know, bars didn't have them. Meeting places necessarily have a TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have a situation where a little village had one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.185762632860982, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No clue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Over the assumption that if you could afford a TV set, you were not a campesino, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And that, you know, bars didn't have them. Meeting places necessarily have a TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have a situation where a little village had one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I doubt it. You know, now in Santiago, community organizations might have had access to a TV, but only for soccer games would be my guess. You know, they weren't watching it at six o'clock in the evening. So really, it didn't have access to the poor people, but so my audience, if I had even given this a thought, which I didn't, my audience was the more wealthy people. And the maids. At least one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least one.\n\nGoing through the second year, how was it different than the first?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.09529181428998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And that, you know, bars didn't have them. Meeting places necessarily have a TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have a situation where a little village had one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I doubt it. You know, now in Santiago, community organizations might have had access to a TV, but only for soccer games would be my guess. You know, they weren't watching it at six o'clock in the evening. So really, it didn't have access to the poor people, but so my audience, if I had even given this a thought, which I didn't, my audience was the more wealthy people. And the maids. At least one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least one.\n\nGoing through the second year, how was it different than the first?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I think we did some more interesting projects. We went further TV projects. A lot of the. I was thinking my roommate was doing a project. She was doing a project really out in one of the really poor areas of town. And this was some kind of a community development I know she had made. I had a little cooperative of making jams and selling them at one point earlier on. But this was a more involved kind of a community development project. She was very good at this stuff. She's still doing it, basically. And something that she did got her in trouble with the Peace Corps and she left early. Well, she left about only about two or three months early. I mean, it was just in the spring, you know, but things began, you know, there was kind of a ripening effect. You reached a point where you were getting pretty good at what you were doing, and I know it was really hard to leave in most cases. But there also was a sense of an ending coming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.335105369396402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think things began to sort of slow down. My own Mario Baeza, who I worked with, was quite an amazing guy, had gotten a scholarship to go and study independent film production in England. And so he left about spring, April or something like that. And then I was working just with the, I'm sure, with another director who I don't remember who it could have been. In the last few months it was Leida, who was the photographer. And it didn't have the same feeling. So it wasn't, you know, it's like the team got broken up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But coming toward the end of the second year. Sometimes people want to say, well, to have a monument they've left behind or to have some goal they've achieved in doing the two years. Did you hope that you would be replaced or that? I don't know what."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, that was all kind of up to the Institute of Cooperative Education. And they, although they had a nice dinner for us, nice despedida, you know, nice going off and stuff. They had shown so little interest in my project that they did not have. I did not have a sense anyone would come and take over that co-op and part who had originally given the money or the time. You know, the television time, maybe wasn't going to renew it, but there wasn't any sense of ongoing this for my project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you feel badly that it wasn't going to continue or that another volunteer wasn't going to take it over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't, actually, because I felt like it was kind of a piece of itself. You know that it that it fell into that time period. I did it while I could, and if they wanted to continue doing something about cooperatives, you know, they would probably work that out with the television station, you know, and have them produce it because I'd broken the ice in getting it going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had most of your socializing been with fellow volunteers or did you begin to have Chilean friends where you know, you could joke you could play with words, you know, give inside personal comments and opinions?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.4013646535758, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't, actually, because I felt like it was kind of a piece of itself. You know that it that it fell into that time period. I did it while I could, and if they wanted to continue doing something about cooperatives, you know, they would probably work that out with the television station, you know, and have them produce it because I'd broken the ice in getting it going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had most of your socializing been with fellow volunteers or did you begin to have Chilean friends where you know, you could joke you could play with words, you know, give inside personal comments and opinions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, mostly it was with the people I worked with at the TV station, you know, and they would invite, you know, invite us out or we would go out to dinner. Mario had a family, but he often would organize little things. We'd all go out and drink and stuff. We didn't usually spend time with his family. I mean, there was kind of a line there, I guess. I don't know. Yeah, but it was mostly that group and then other volunteers and their Chilean counterparts, we would often get together as a group. So it was kind of an interesting mixing of, you know. I spent most of my certainly most of my work time with these, the people of the TV station or with Mario or with the cameraman, you know, but it was that was more of a working relationship, you know. So the people that I knew secondary to that really were mostly Peace Corps volunteers and then their secondary Chilean friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. As the two years comes to an end, where are you? What are you doing? What is your future?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was strange. Well, I had decided to apply to graduate schools, which most of us had done. It was kind of like you had to have a haven to come home to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this was '66?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.248598337747904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was strange. Well, I had decided to apply to graduate schools, which most of us had done. It was kind of like you had to have a haven to come home to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this was '66?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "'66 and I had decided I wanted to study television and film and educational television. I was interested in educational television. So I'd gotten information from the various universities that had film and TV master's degrees. And the two main ones I remember were USC and Syracuse, and USC required some kind of a big essay. I ended up at Syracuse by default. I mean, it was like, I can't do a bigger essay, I'm doing a show here, you don't have time for this. I remember taking the, uh, one of the Millers. Yeah, the graduate record exam on the Miller Analogies Test. And I took those, if you can believe this, when I was on vacation in Lima, Peru. Happened to land with when they were giving it in a place where I could take it. And there you are. You know, there I am at the peak of my Spanish ability when I was actually thinking in Spanish trying to go, this is to that as that is to that in English. I was like, this is all wrong! I'm not thinking like that right now. You know, I couldn't. I don't even have any idea what I scored on that. But Syracuse was kind enough, probably to forego it. Syracuse University master's program in TV and radio had really made a commitment to take Peace Corps volunteers in, so there were about five Peace Corps volunteers in a group of, I don't know, 25 in the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the peak of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was very cool because believe me, I needed help when I got back in the country. The culture shock was just like, you know, it was hard. That's very hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Leaving Chile, were there lots of regrets or it was time to move on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.294565849071486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was very cool because believe me, I needed help when I got back in the country. The culture shock was just like, you know, it was hard. That's very hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Leaving Chile, were there lots of regrets or it was time to move on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. You know, it is interesting, I think for a lot of people that had different kinds of projects than I have. Mine was kind of like, OK, well, that's done, you know, and nobody was taking it over and it was like, goodbye, you know, I did my job. But for a lot of people, I think that had ongoing projects, it was much harder. For me, it was just like, well, this period's done, like graduating from school. It was like to me, it was sort of like, OK, I'm done here. And I didn't, you know, I remember Lyndon Johnson sent us all letters inviting us to, uh, to come on for another tour of duty to do American Samoa. They were opening a project in American Samoa, and I remember that specifically. Sent a letter to everybody saying you did a great job and would you consider doing it for longer? And we're opening this project in American Samoa. But I really was not ready to start another year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were ready to move on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was ready to move on, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't leave like feeling you had been you were being wrenched from Chile, where, you know, it was such a vital experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 23.660628721190538, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. You know, it is interesting, I think for a lot of people that had different kinds of projects than I have. Mine was kind of like, OK, well, that's done, you know, and nobody was taking it over and it was like, goodbye, you know, I did my job. But for a lot of people, I think that had ongoing projects, it was much harder. For me, it was just like, well, this period's done, like graduating from school. It was like to me, it was sort of like, OK, I'm done here. And I didn't, you know, I remember Lyndon Johnson sent us all letters inviting us to, uh, to come on for another tour of duty to do American Samoa. They were opening a project in American Samoa, and I remember that specifically. Sent a letter to everybody saying you did a great job and would you consider doing it for longer? And we're opening this project in American Samoa. But I really was not ready to start another year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were ready to move on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was ready to move on, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't leave like feeling you had been you were being wrenched from Chile, where, you know, it was such a vital experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, it was a vital experience, but it didn't feel like that. It felt, it did feel finished and I felt ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the effect of the experience on you? How would you evaluate that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.133255176330646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, all summer. We left in June and we got home in like the third week in August. So it took all summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now I mean, obvious change in your life. You were comfortable world traveler."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, when you describe the itinerary, it's in and out of all these countries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, so comfortable that I would just like hardly even would plan ahead. You know, it's like, well, we'll just go take the bus, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well in the '60s, it was possible."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.481394640367384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, when you describe the itinerary, it's in and out of all these countries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, so comfortable that I would just like hardly even would plan ahead. You know, it's like, well, we'll just go take the bus, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well in the '60s, it was possible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. And there was a, I mean, I did have a sense of physical freedom, I could go wherever I needed to, and I could get there somehow and not worried about, not thinking about money much because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you really felt that it in some way the Peace Corps in the years that freed you from Reno."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.868216267074871, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, so comfortable that I would just like hardly even would plan ahead. You know, it's like, well, we'll just go take the bus, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well in the '60s, it was possible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. And there was a, I mean, I did have a sense of physical freedom, I could go wherever I needed to, and I could get there somehow and not worried about, not thinking about money much because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you really felt that it in some way the Peace Corps in the years that freed you from Reno."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It freed me from being from living a very, a very enclosed life, a very isolated life, which was what my, you know, because we were poor and because it lived in this very isolated city in a lot of ways, very different than the rest of the world in a certain way. And it was a wonderful thing that I left and became, you know, my eyes were open to possibilities and to my own possibilities. I mean, the experience of producing that show had given me a lot of confidence and a sense of I still wanted to do Peace Corps kind of work. I still wanted to come back and do educational TV and eventually be able to go down to South America. Because one of the problems, of course, in all South American countries, certainly in Chile, is that they can't train teachers fast enough to keep up with the population. I mean, they cannot train teachers fast enough and they don't have enough money to really disseminate them and pay for them. And people aren't being educated because of that, you know? So I always thought ETV, education on TV, was what I thought was going to save the world. And of course, it wasn't. It's computers. It's computers. When computers came, I went, that's it. Yeah, that's it. Because ETV is not interactive enough and you can't, it's too clumsy, you know? Sure, you can have a teacher up there teaching, but you can't talk to that teacher and the teacher can't talk to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you went to Syracuse."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.451599817661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Syracuse, got a TV radio film degree. It was a year- long master's. And then not knowing what else do with myself, I joined, followed my other fellow Peace Corps volunteers there had joined something called Teacher Corps. I think this was also a draft dodging because now things were really hot. This was '68, '67. Things were really getting hot and Teacher Corps, I think, kept you out. You were helping the school system and it was supposed to be able to use media in the school. So you we were supposed to be able to help the New York school system, use media in the schools. And we got some training and we got some teaching credits in the summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and where'd you live?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived with a roommate from Syracuse, a woman from Syracuse who is a New Yorker. Thank God, because New York was like, New York was not Santiago. It was really big. But she knew her way around, got us an apartment and stuff, so I was living with her. But I then another strike, teacher strike, the first New York teacher strike. Well, so now I have to support myself. I end up taking a substitute teaching job in Harlem at an all-boys junior high school, which was really hell. I didn't have any experience as a teacher. I should never have been there and it taught me that lesson. You know, you really do, good intentions are not it. You have to have something to offer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it 139?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.61288868629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and where'd you live?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived with a roommate from Syracuse, a woman from Syracuse who is a New Yorker. Thank God, because New York was like, New York was not Santiago. It was really big. But she knew her way around, got us an apartment and stuff, so I was living with her. But I then another strike, teacher strike, the first New York teacher strike. Well, so now I have to support myself. I end up taking a substitute teaching job in Harlem at an all-boys junior high school, which was really hell. I didn't have any experience as a teacher. I should never have been there and it taught me that lesson. You know, you really do, good intentions are not it. You have to have something to offer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it 139?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "God, it could have been. Frederick Douglass Junior High School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll tell you about it later."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.633195909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "God, it could have been. Frederick Douglass Junior High School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll tell you about it later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you are kidding me! So Frederick Douglass Junior High School, all boys, up the down staircase. It was just an amazing experience. But so I didn't last very long. It lasted about a half a year. And then I started working, finding different jobs in television or something associated with education and television for a couple and finally got a job with American Foundation for the Blind doing TV and radio spots. And you know, I went along through my career trying to get into educational television, but eventually ending up in in commercial television, doing on air promotion and talk shows and stuff like that. I had one more television experience was with the Philadelphia detention center. So the jail but detention center, meaning they haven't been given their sentence yet, haven't been sentenced to jail. And there was that little closed circuit TV. The experience of my life. Because even though I was prepared for that and I knew what I wanted to do is very difficult working with inmates, it's very difficult working with people in jails. And it was emotionally harder than I could stand. So, you know, after that sort of it wasn't as if my Peace Corps zeal left me, but I really was more and more interested in television. [dog barking] Let me go turn this dog off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Philadelphia. Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that detention center experience really well, that almost turned me into a non-do-gooder. That was tough. But so I sort of went into doing commercial television and then just my began, you know, uh, I was married then. I went and had kids and did all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live? For the most part?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.3372789, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that detention center experience really well, that almost turned me into a non-do-gooder. That was tough. But so I sort of went into doing commercial television and then just my began, you know, uh, I was married then. I went and had kids and did all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live? For the most part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. On the East Coast for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in, uh, well, I met my husband when I was still living in New York, working for the American Foundation for the Blind. And then I went to Pittsburgh because that's where he got a job. And but I didn't know whether we were marriage material yet. So I went and worked at the University of Pittsburgh Communication Center. That was really good. That was educational TV, and that was a good gig. I mean, we were doing pretty nice stuff and it was ETV and all that stuff. And then we went to New York again, and then we went to Philadelphia. That's where I did the detention center. New York, Philadelphia, Boston. That was the live talk show. Now that was fun. That was exciting. I had a lot of fun doing that. And then and then we moved to San Francisco and I got pregnant and had kids and sort of took a ten year hiatus from any of that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking through that work career, and I assume you had a second career when the children were grown."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00179:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.041421000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. On the East Coast for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in, uh, well, I met my husband when I was still living in New York, working for the American Foundation for the Blind. And then I went to Pittsburgh because that's where he got a job. And but I didn't know whether we were marriage material yet. So I went and worked at the University of Pittsburgh Communication Center. That was really good. That was educational TV, and that was a good gig. I mean, we were doing pretty nice stuff and it was ETV and all that stuff. And then we went to New York again, and then we went to Philadelphia. That's where I did the detention center. New York, Philadelphia, Boston. That was the live talk show. Now that was fun. That was exciting. I had a lot of fun doing that. And then and then we moved to San Francisco and I got pregnant and had kids and sort of took a ten year hiatus from any of that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking through that work career, and I assume you had a second career when the children were grown."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, now I'm doing marriage and family therapy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. What was the effect of having been in the Peace Corps on you or on your life?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 33.586613052184425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, quite a bit, from a security perspective. When I first got here, I almost kind of laugh about it, because we were very open. You could go anywhere. I can remember going over to Mission Control—what is now the old Mission Control—and just sitting down at the consoles. Just walk in the building and sat down and pretend like I was there. There was absolutely no security that I can think of, besides your own badge. Your badge basically got you in anywhere, including this facility here in 16.\\n\\n When the DoD came in with the DoD payloads, we had to do a lot of upgrades, security-related upgrades, to the facility: routing of certain wires and access doors, cipher locks on everything, and processes to control data so that it’s not uncontrolled. That was a fair amount of work that went on in the eighties to support that. Clearances to work certain things. So there was a lot of restricted access. If you walk around this building, you’ll see in the hallways what looks like a big sewer pipe. Well that was associated with routing out wires—so that from a security perspective—to meet the needs of the DoD with regards to the routing of data. The control center that I was working on, they created a secure conference room that had special shieldings, that they could have private conversations, and the people wouldn’t be listening in, that kind of thing. It was a fair amount of work, and it was very disruptive, but you did what you had to do. A lot of that’s still in place today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it still remains?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you don’t use most of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I said all the access doors and stuff. Obviously the data itself is not DoD data anymore, so you don’t have to worry about the actual data itself. But a lot of the processes and the modification of the facility, modification of how the wiring is routed and stuff like that, it’s still as it was, because it doesn’t make sense to undo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Has the facility been modified in any other way since the Space Shuttle began flying?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 31.762903391316026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you don’t use most of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I said all the access doors and stuff. Obviously the data itself is not DoD data anymore, so you don’t have to worry about the actual data itself. But a lot of the processes and the modification of the facility, modification of how the wiring is routed and stuff like that, it’s still as it was, because it doesn’t make sense to undo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Has the facility been modified in any other way since the Space Shuttle began flying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s interesting. That would be a good question for Don. There’s been modifications of sorts. For instance, the control center that I talked about, the original one was downstairs on the first floor; and the one I worked on, we moved it to the second floor; and then there’s been a third upgrade in this time period, which is just down the hall. So the function is the same, but they have upgraded the support hardware. Some of it was very old, so you have to upgrade these systems as needed. This is like the lab support hardware. So I’m sure they’ve done a number of those types of upgrades over the years.\\n\\n The Shuttle piece, the core piece of the lab, is pretty much the same. If there was an upgrade to an avionics box, black box, over the years; they would have got it here, too. Those kind of modifications to keep it current to the vehicle. A big one they did was the glass cockpit. When they converted to essentially the LCD [Liquid Crystal Display] screens that they currently have, they upgraded all the vehicles, obviously, and then they upgraded this facility. But it still, just in a broad sense, in my mind, when I walk through it, it’s very similar to what we had 30 years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you give us a sense of the building itself, the different wings and what’s contained in Building 16?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 24.43820056594425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the one I was just talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s the one you were telling us about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s just the one I was talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just wanted to make sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that is it. I don’t have any good history of that facility. Scott Woodard probably would be a good one to talk to, also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve talked to us a lot about the big rig. That’s where the wires are and things. Is there anything else that we should know about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 22.709111739938056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s just the one I was talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just wanted to make sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that is it. I don’t have any good history of that facility. Scott Woodard probably would be a good one to talk to, also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve talked to us a lot about the big rig. That’s where the wires are and things. Is there anything else that we should know about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so, actually. I should mention, analogous to the power lab, we have the JAEL. That’s over here in 16. In my mind, it’s kind of a mini version of the SAIL. What does that stand for? JSC Avionics [Engineering] Lab, I believe. That facility does some specialized testing on GPCs, MEDS [Multifunction Electronic Display System, glass] cockpit, kind of pre-work prior to the Shuttle SAIL lab, and kind of augments that test capability. But it’s analogous to the same kind of test function, just a smaller version. SAIL, to me, is the primary facility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the simulators before, but is there anything we should know about the High-Fidelity Engineering Simulator or the Asset Entry Shuttle Engineering Simulator?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.324871727034097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The biggest thing, I touched on already, at least for us, has been the amount of Engineering Directorate oversight in the middle of operating the facility. When I first came in, we were heavily involved. NASA’s civil servants were heavily involved in the development and operation of the facility. What’s happened over the years is the number of civil servants involved in the actual facility is very minimal. Over the years, it went down to one person, Bill [William F.] Ritz, one EA person, and then that eventually was then eliminated. So as far as I know, there’s really no civil servants in the day-to-day operations. It’s just the program office as a customer deals with it. The amount of civil servant oversight has just been drastically reduced. USA does a great job running the facility, but that’s a big difference in what’s happened in the last 30 years. Like I said, it was an entire division, the division of civil servants, that ran the facility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they then become contractors and work for USA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that time, we had Lockheed. They were the engineering support contractor at that time. When we did shift, a lot of them did shift over to USA from Lockheed. But the civil servants pretty much went off and did other things, just like myself. Just scattered into different jobs, primarily with, say, Space Station. That’s what really drew me away from the facility, was the emergence of Station. I worked that a number of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that the big rig has a tail number. What is that tail number?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s OV [Orbiter Vehicle-095]. Yes, I’m pretty sure that’s right. You can confirm that with Don."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have a chance to go through it, and you’ll also get a chance to edit your transcript, so don’t feel like this is your last opportunity."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.916524141148995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that time, we had Lockheed. They were the engineering support contractor at that time. When we did shift, a lot of them did shift over to USA from Lockheed. But the civil servants pretty much went off and did other things, just like myself. Just scattered into different jobs, primarily with, say, Space Station. That’s what really drew me away from the facility, was the emergence of Station. I worked that a number of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that the big rig has a tail number. What is that tail number?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s OV [Orbiter Vehicle-095]. Yes, I’m pretty sure that’s right. You can confirm that with Don."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have a chance to go through it, and you’ll also get a chance to edit your transcript, so don’t feel like this is your last opportunity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, not a bit. Cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think you’ve answered most the questions that we have. You’ve given us a number of names of people that we should talk to. Is there anyone else, in your mind, that we should speak with?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.946326100183944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, not a bit. Cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think you’ve answered most the questions that we have. You’ve given us a number of names of people that we should talk to. Is there anyone else, in your mind, that we should speak with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Don is good, and then Irv. Irv Burtzlaff, I think, would love to talk about the early days of the facility. I would have said Bill Ritz, but he passed away recently. But Irv, he might even have some information, written information, that might be good. This document here does provide some background, a little bit of background, if you want to take away and read. It’s kind of built in the days of typewriters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does give some history, some background description of the facility. So when you’re trying to write what this facility does, this would be a good source of information, and feel free to borrow this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Absolutely. We will."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.60702900020438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Don is good, and then Irv. Irv Burtzlaff, I think, would love to talk about the early days of the facility. I would have said Bill Ritz, but he passed away recently. But Irv, he might even have some information, written information, that might be good. This document here does provide some background, a little bit of background, if you want to take away and read. It’s kind of built in the days of typewriters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does give some history, some background description of the facility. So when you’re trying to write what this facility does, this would be a good source of information, and feel free to borrow this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Absolutely. We will."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But like I said, Irv, I think he’s still available, and Barbara [G.] Shock here has his contact info if you want."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Is he still in the area?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 18.452254444671535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does give some history, some background description of the facility. So when you’re trying to write what this facility does, this would be a good source of information, and feel free to borrow this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Absolutely. We will."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But like I said, Irv, I think he’s still available, and Barbara [G.] Shock here has his contact info if you want."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Is he still in the area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He is still in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, great. Now, you mentioned that USA is the main contractor that supports the facility, and Lockheed supported that before them. Were there any other main contractors?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.5009212691229, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’d have to think about that. There’s that plaque. See that plaque?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the one I mentioned earlier. That’s the one I got for STS-1, and I felt very embarrassed to get that, because I had just got here. Because I didn’t feel like I had contributed all that much. But that one, I really like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, that’s nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure there are a few of those around. Nothing comes immediately to mind, actually. I keep this out for grins almost, and as a history thing for myself, to remind me of those days. But down here in this cabinet here, see those little consoles of cardboard up there?\\n\\n Those are about 30 years old. When I talked about the upgrade of the control center for SAIL, I was involved in helping Lockheed, at the time, design those new test consoles for this new control center. I kept getting questions: “What are these things going to look like? What are these things going to look like?” I think the PDR, the Preliminary Design Review, I think—one of the design reviews that we had—I just said, “Crap, I’m just going to make it out of cardboard.” That essentially is to scale, based on the drawings. I just keep those. I’ve kept them all these years. I don’t know why. But I just kind of laugh at them every time I see them. But I built those when I was in my early twenties. It accomplished what it—because now everybody knew exactly what it was. Needed a 3-D model."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s great."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.223245854581, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the one I mentioned earlier. That’s the one I got for STS-1, and I felt very embarrassed to get that, because I had just got here. Because I didn’t feel like I had contributed all that much. But that one, I really like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, that’s nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure there are a few of those around. Nothing comes immediately to mind, actually. I keep this out for grins almost, and as a history thing for myself, to remind me of those days. But down here in this cabinet here, see those little consoles of cardboard up there?\\n\\n Those are about 30 years old. When I talked about the upgrade of the control center for SAIL, I was involved in helping Lockheed, at the time, design those new test consoles for this new control center. I kept getting questions: “What are these things going to look like? What are these things going to look like?” I think the PDR, the Preliminary Design Review, I think—one of the design reviews that we had—I just said, “Crap, I’m just going to make it out of cardboard.” That essentially is to scale, based on the drawings. I just keep those. I’ve kept them all these years. I don’t know why. But I just kind of laugh at them every time I see them. But I built those when I was in my early twenties. It accomplished what it—because now everybody knew exactly what it was. Needed a 3-D model."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s kind of funny, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about why there was a decision made to build this new control center."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.87188821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That went operational in ’81, ’82 timeframe. I think it was after STS-1. I’m forgetting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know when the most recent change occurred?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s within the last five years. Don would be able to give you the exact date on that. This thing right here came from that original—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a kind of a tidbit of strange things to show you how things were so tight money-wise when we were doing this new control center. It looks like a core sample. One of the challenges that we had when we were building this new control center was that we didn’t have enough money to put in a false floor for this new control center that was down the hall here. So one of the NASA guys in the office says, “Well, why don’t we just drill holes in the concrete, and we’ll just run our wires above the first-floor ceiling”—like right about here—“and then just route the wires up into those racks, those consoles?” So that’s what we did. In this building, you’ll see some people have these, and there’s one that’s about that big around, too. But we had a company called Holes Incorporated, come out—they still exist today; I’ve seen them around. You can see that it has the linoleum tile on top of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it does."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.545541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a kind of a tidbit of strange things to show you how things were so tight money-wise when we were doing this new control center. It looks like a core sample. One of the challenges that we had when we were building this new control center was that we didn’t have enough money to put in a false floor for this new control center that was down the hall here. So one of the NASA guys in the office says, “Well, why don’t we just drill holes in the concrete, and we’ll just run our wires above the first-floor ceiling”—like right about here—“and then just route the wires up into those racks, those consoles?” So that’s what we did. In this building, you’ll see some people have these, and there’s one that’s about that big around, too. But we had a company called Holes Incorporated, come out—they still exist today; I’ve seen them around. You can see that it has the linoleum tile on top of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it does."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They punched a bunch of holes, and it was very loud. That was very loud, and I can remember that. So if you go into the old control room—they moved it—you’ll see a bunch of holes in that floor. Well, it was because we couldn’t afford the false floor, which we would typically do in a lab, and then run the wires under the false floor. So our false floor is actually this concrete."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was creative thinking at the time. I thought it was a funny tidbit of sorts. But then they actually moved the control center around the corner to another location, and they put a false floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got the money this time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.93949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They punched a bunch of holes, and it was very loud. That was very loud, and I can remember that. So if you go into the old control room—they moved it—you’ll see a bunch of holes in that floor. Well, it was because we couldn’t afford the false floor, which we would typically do in a lab, and then run the wires under the false floor. So our false floor is actually this concrete."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was creative thinking at the time. I thought it was a funny tidbit of sorts. But then they actually moved the control center around the corner to another location, and they put a false floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got the money this time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, got the money this time. That was always the challenges at the time, was trying to do as much as you can with the budget you got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine it was a challenge.\n\nI’m sure it still is."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2661000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was creative thinking at the time. I thought it was a funny tidbit of sorts. But then they actually moved the control center around the corner to another location, and they put a false floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got the money this time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, got the money this time. That was always the challenges at the time, was trying to do as much as you can with the budget you got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine it was a challenge.\n\nI’m sure it still is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still is. It’s age-old, and it’s always this wrestling match between the engineering organization and the program office, since they’re the ones that control all the funds. We want to do one thing, and they don’t have enough money to do that, so there’s this see-saw back and forth, and hopefully you get to the right middle ground on any decision. But being good stewards of the program’s money has always been what we try to do, not just do it to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any questions, Rebecca?\n\nNo, just was going to ask if you had any more thoughts, any more personal thoughts you’d like to share about the building and the fact that how vital it is to the program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, got the money this time. That was always the challenges at the time, was trying to do as much as you can with the budget you got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine it was a challenge.\n\nI’m sure it still is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still is. It’s age-old, and it’s always this wrestling match between the engineering organization and the program office, since they’re the ones that control all the funds. We want to do one thing, and they don’t have enough money to do that, so there’s this see-saw back and forth, and hopefully you get to the right middle ground on any decision. But being good stewards of the program’s money has always been what we try to do, not just do it to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any questions, Rebecca?\n\nNo, just was going to ask if you had any more thoughts, any more personal thoughts you’d like to share about the building and the fact that how vital it is to the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s very easy to say that the Shuttle Program would not be the success that it has been if it wasn’t for this building and what’s in this building, and the people that are in it and the facility. Not everybody appreciates that, to be honest. It’s the traditional challenge, is to convince the powers that be that you need an avionics integration–type facility. If you were to see the facility and see how complex a machine it is, and you go, “Wow.” You can’t just build it and then go fly it; you just can’t. It won’t work. The risk is way, way too high. I have true, huge appreciation for the avionics integration and test side of the program and what it reveals and the problems that it can help solve, to make sure that you wring everything out before you fly, and then troubleshoot, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you think of an episode or an event that you guys troubleshooted or even one that you tested before it flew that it’s really good that you had that opportunity to do it before someone took it out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s been so long. That would be another good one for Don. He probably could give you a pretty good laundry list of things they’ve discovered over the last 30 years. That would be a good thing. I’m thinking more in general of assurances too, that it does indeed work. It’s just mandatory. We’re having that battle right now with the CEV Program. The new facility is getting cut, delayed, and it’s just not right. We get to these arguments of what the true rationale is for the facility.\\n\\n But from an engineering perspective, the integration job, when you put all this stuff together and hook it all up, it’s just a mammoth kind of undertaking, and very complex. I’m amazed at every Shuttle flight. That’s why I like this poster—it’s a little bit outdated—of all the Shuttle patches and all the Apollo patches. But it gives you a sense of how many times the Shuttle is flown. You tend to forget how many times the Shuttle has flown. I mean, over 100 times. Knowing what it takes to fly each Shuttle and the violent launch to the violent reentry, it’s just incredible, from an engineering perspective. But this facility was very much instrumental in making all that happen and making all those patches happen. Testing out the software, testing out the systems, to make sure that they accomplish what it needs to accomplish. Just about any engineer that’s involved in the development of the systems would say the same thing. But Don would be a real good one to give you that history of over the years of how that’s evolved. He’s been involved in that facility for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Touch base with Barbara, and she’ll have all that contact info."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe it’ll help you with some information for the CAIL."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s true. Actually, we are trying to get the SAIL guys involved in the CAIL facility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would make sense."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00035:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Touch base with Barbara, and she’ll have all that contact info."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe it’ll help you with some information for the CAIL."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s true. Actually, we are trying to get the SAIL guys involved in the CAIL facility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would make sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s another one of these natural migrations that’s already started. As the Shuttle retires and that job goes away, then the Constellation and the CEV, CAIL, job is emerging. I don’t know if you’ve seen it over there. It’s way under construction. But that’s going to be exciting to see put in place. Looking forward to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we thank you for sharing your time with us this morning—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.186053430334965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. [In 1951] I graduated from Sanger [Union] High School, which is close to Reedley [College, California], where I went to after I graduated. I attended Reedley College for three semesters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get drafted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got drafted [in May 1953]. The teacher just gave me a letter and said, “Just give this letter [to the U.S. Army recruitment office].” [After boot camp in Virginia] I went to [Gary Air Force Base] San Marcos, Texas, with the [US Air Force Helicopter School]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn about helicopters while you were there? Is that what you learned about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I went to helicopter school and [also to Alaska working on helicopters]. After I got discharged [in 1955], I went back [to Reedley], and the [aeronautics program] instructor, Roy Russell, his brother [John W. “Jack” Russell] worked at NACA. We got a bunch of us—I think there was six of us—went through NACA, and we all got hired. John Russell gave us a little tour, and all six of us were hired. I was Aircraft Mechanic III and had maintenance repairs on R-4D, [Douglas] C-47 [Skytrain], [Convair] F-102-A [Delta Dagger], [North American] F-100-A [Super Sabre], [Lockheed] F-104 [Starfighter], and this was from February 1956 to March ’60."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they give you training when you got to the NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.42894825592774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got drafted [in May 1953]. The teacher just gave me a letter and said, “Just give this letter [to the U.S. Army recruitment office].” [After boot camp in Virginia] I went to [Gary Air Force Base] San Marcos, Texas, with the [US Air Force Helicopter School]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn about helicopters while you were there? Is that what you learned about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I went to helicopter school and [also to Alaska working on helicopters]. After I got discharged [in 1955], I went back [to Reedley], and the [aeronautics program] instructor, Roy Russell, his brother [John W. “Jack” Russell] worked at NACA. We got a bunch of us—I think there was six of us—went through NACA, and we all got hired. John Russell gave us a little tour, and all six of us were hired. I was Aircraft Mechanic III and had maintenance repairs on R-4D, [Douglas] C-47 [Skytrain], [Convair] F-102-A [Delta Dagger], [North American] F-100-A [Super Sabre], [Lockheed] F-104 [Starfighter], and this was from February 1956 to March ’60."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they give you training when you got to the NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we got training. When we first got there, we had to live in a dorm because they didn’t have any places for people that weren’t married. We went to South Base, and I was mostly on the R-4D, which is a C-47, and I was the Crew Chief, and I got training from the Crew Chief that was there, and then he left. Most of the training was hands on. There were two hangars at NACA at the time, and the aircraft were in the big hangar, and the little hangar was the calibration hangar. You had to furnish your own tools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was very interesting. You had to furnish your own tools?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.809942506586378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I went to helicopter school and [also to Alaska working on helicopters]. After I got discharged [in 1955], I went back [to Reedley], and the [aeronautics program] instructor, Roy Russell, his brother [John W. “Jack” Russell] worked at NACA. We got a bunch of us—I think there was six of us—went through NACA, and we all got hired. John Russell gave us a little tour, and all six of us were hired. I was Aircraft Mechanic III and had maintenance repairs on R-4D, [Douglas] C-47 [Skytrain], [Convair] F-102-A [Delta Dagger], [North American] F-100-A [Super Sabre], [Lockheed] F-104 [Starfighter], and this was from February 1956 to March ’60."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they give you training when you got to the NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we got training. When we first got there, we had to live in a dorm because they didn’t have any places for people that weren’t married. We went to South Base, and I was mostly on the R-4D, which is a C-47, and I was the Crew Chief, and I got training from the Crew Chief that was there, and then he left. Most of the training was hands on. There were two hangars at NACA at the time, and the aircraft were in the big hangar, and the little hangar was the calibration hangar. You had to furnish your own tools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was very interesting. You had to furnish your own tools?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they give you a list or did you come up with your own list?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.344380562873752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we got training. When we first got there, we had to live in a dorm because they didn’t have any places for people that weren’t married. We went to South Base, and I was mostly on the R-4D, which is a C-47, and I was the Crew Chief, and I got training from the Crew Chief that was there, and then he left. Most of the training was hands on. There were two hangars at NACA at the time, and the aircraft were in the big hangar, and the little hangar was the calibration hangar. You had to furnish your own tools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was very interesting. You had to furnish your own tools?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they give you a list or did you come up with your own list?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did. They told you the tools you should have, and there were people that came around selling tools, so you could really get what ones you did need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nellie, when did you become part of the NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.827089514304168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they give you a list or did you come up with your own list?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did. They told you the tools you should have, and there were people that came around selling tools, so you could really get what ones you did need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nellie, when did you become part of the NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before Byron did, actually. I came in June of ’54, one week out of high school, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had lived in the area for a while, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.474543904782408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did. They told you the tools you should have, and there were people that came around selling tools, so you could really get what ones you did need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nellie, when did you become part of the NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before Byron did, actually. I came in June of ’54, one week out of high school, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had lived in the area for a while, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you know about the NACA and about what was going on at the base?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.971715449758232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before Byron did, actually. I came in June of ’54, one week out of high school, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had lived in the area for a while, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you know about the NACA and about what was going on at the base?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. I did know the name of it, but that was it because a friend in high school, her dad worked there. I had heard her say that, and she was dating an Air Force guy out at the [Edwards Air Force] Base, and we would drive out there and throw rocks at his dorm window or barracks window or whatever, so he would come down and say hi to her. At one point, she drove me by what was the NACA, so I had seen it before I went out there the first day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a job opening that you applied for, or did you just apply and they called you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.301906055286924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you know about the NACA and about what was going on at the base?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. I did know the name of it, but that was it because a friend in high school, her dad worked there. I had heard her say that, and she was dating an Air Force guy out at the [Edwards Air Force] Base, and we would drive out there and throw rocks at his dorm window or barracks window or whatever, so he would come down and say hi to her. At one point, she drove me by what was the NACA, so I had seen it before I went out there the first day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a job opening that you applied for, or did you just apply and they called you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t remember ever applying for anything out there. I took the civil service exam at the old post office down on the boulevard, and they just called, so they must have given a listing or something. Maybe our high school teacher did it, or I don’t know exactly how. I got a call from the personnel lady who was Leona Corbett at the time, and went out for an interview and started June 28, and I graduated in June of that year, so it was shortly after high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your first thoughts about being out there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.77989561698547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. I did know the name of it, but that was it because a friend in high school, her dad worked there. I had heard her say that, and she was dating an Air Force guy out at the [Edwards Air Force] Base, and we would drive out there and throw rocks at his dorm window or barracks window or whatever, so he would come down and say hi to her. At one point, she drove me by what was the NACA, so I had seen it before I went out there the first day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a job opening that you applied for, or did you just apply and they called you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t remember ever applying for anything out there. I took the civil service exam at the old post office down on the boulevard, and they just called, so they must have given a listing or something. Maybe our high school teacher did it, or I don’t know exactly how. I got a call from the personnel lady who was Leona Corbett at the time, and went out for an interview and started June 28, and I graduated in June of that year, so it was shortly after high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your first thoughts about being out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought, “Oh my gosh.” I walked in the office the first day, and there was this big old calculator sitting there, and I took no math in high school. I did typing and shorthand, and I thought, “What do you do with that big old thing?” It was interesting. Scary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What area did you first work in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.199884018872744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t remember ever applying for anything out there. I took the civil service exam at the old post office down on the boulevard, and they just called, so they must have given a listing or something. Maybe our high school teacher did it, or I don’t know exactly how. I got a call from the personnel lady who was Leona Corbett at the time, and went out for an interview and started June 28, and I graduated in June of that year, so it was shortly after high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your first thoughts about being out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought, “Oh my gosh.” I walked in the office the first day, and there was this big old calculator sitting there, and I took no math in high school. I did typing and shorthand, and I thought, “What do you do with that big old thing?” It was interesting. Scary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What area did you first work in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the fiscal office is what they called it, cost accounting. All the employees, which I think there were under 200 at the time, but they all filled out a biweekly [timesheet] the size of a typing sheet, and their numbers all had to coincide, if they had any overtime in there, and their regular days, and they had to put the times they signed in and out. My first job was going over those biweeklies before they went to the payroll clerk, which was in the same office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you drive every day or did you carpool?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.555426687636382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought, “Oh my gosh.” I walked in the office the first day, and there was this big old calculator sitting there, and I took no math in high school. I did typing and shorthand, and I thought, “What do you do with that big old thing?” It was interesting. Scary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What area did you first work in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the fiscal office is what they called it, cost accounting. All the employees, which I think there were under 200 at the time, but they all filled out a biweekly [timesheet] the size of a typing sheet, and their numbers all had to coincide, if they had any overtime in there, and their regular days, and they had to put the times they signed in and out. My first job was going over those biweeklies before they went to the payroll clerk, which was in the same office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you drive every day or did you carpool?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I drove every day. Then it was just a couple of weeks, I think, when we started carpooling. I knew several people out there, actually, after I got going, so it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems the more that we talk to people who worked out in this area, there in those days, carpooling was such an advantage."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.06158520848487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the fiscal office is what they called it, cost accounting. All the employees, which I think there were under 200 at the time, but they all filled out a biweekly [timesheet] the size of a typing sheet, and their numbers all had to coincide, if they had any overtime in there, and their regular days, and they had to put the times they signed in and out. My first job was going over those biweeklies before they went to the payroll clerk, which was in the same office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you drive every day or did you carpool?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I drove every day. Then it was just a couple of weeks, I think, when we started carpooling. I knew several people out there, actually, after I got going, so it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems the more that we talk to people who worked out in this area, there in those days, carpooling was such an advantage."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did it work well for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.401761342760965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I drove every day. Then it was just a couple of weeks, I think, when we started carpooling. I knew several people out there, actually, after I got going, so it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems the more that we talk to people who worked out in this area, there in those days, carpooling was such an advantage."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did it work well for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had to use my brother’s car. We only had one car. It was just my brother and I and our mom, and so I’m not sure what he did on the days I drove, but he must have had some way to get to work. Usually, it was only one day a week. I remember there was a man on the next street from us that worked there, and I’m sure that we just scared the stuff out of him because we were all young, and he was kind of an older man. I remember one day, we had some sheep crossing the road, and he said, “Sheep!” but we had seen them.\\n\\n When I started—I’ll backtrack just a hair—they had only been in the building a week or two, I think. I’m not sure what the move-in day was. We all were kind of learning the facility at one time, so it wasn’t too bad being the new kid in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to share that with the rest of them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.878717707112303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had to use my brother’s car. We only had one car. It was just my brother and I and our mom, and so I’m not sure what he did on the days I drove, but he must have had some way to get to work. Usually, it was only one day a week. I remember there was a man on the next street from us that worked there, and I’m sure that we just scared the stuff out of him because we were all young, and he was kind of an older man. I remember one day, we had some sheep crossing the road, and he said, “Sheep!” but we had seen them.\\n\\n When I started—I’ll backtrack just a hair—they had only been in the building a week or two, I think. I’m not sure what the move-in day was. We all were kind of learning the facility at one time, so it wasn’t too bad being the new kid in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to share that with the rest of them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yes, and there were six or eight of us in the same office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All females?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. There was—well, just two males. Our director was J. Leslie Garbett. He’s one of the originals that came out from Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia] and was at the South Base. Then we had a Mr. [Arthur J.] Lynch. I think he did travel [reservations for the whole Center]. A lot went on in the fiscal office. It was just the only place for accounting, I guess, which was the most unlikely place for me to end up with no math skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn how to use that big calculator?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.976353007902558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yes, and there were six or eight of us in the same office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All females?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. There was—well, just two males. Our director was J. Leslie Garbett. He’s one of the originals that came out from Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia] and was at the South Base. Then we had a Mr. [Arthur J.] Lynch. I think he did travel [reservations for the whole Center]. A lot went on in the fiscal office. It was just the only place for accounting, I guess, which was the most unlikely place for me to end up with no math skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn how to use that big calculator?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it one of those big Friden calculators?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.195947786558397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. There was—well, just two males. Our director was J. Leslie Garbett. He’s one of the originals that came out from Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia] and was at the South Base. Then we had a Mr. [Arthur J.] Lynch. I think he did travel [reservations for the whole Center]. A lot went on in the fiscal office. It was just the only place for accounting, I guess, which was the most unlikely place for me to end up with no math skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn how to use that big calculator?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it one of those big Friden calculators?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure what its name was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was big."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.439941985064886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it one of those big Friden calculators?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure what its name was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was big."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, and we did have IBM electric typewriters, which was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of typing. No mistakes, I bet, was there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.953281186645934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure what its name was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was big."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, and we did have IBM electric typewriters, which was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of typing. No mistakes, I bet, was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in that office, not so much. Later on, I went into security, and that was the no-mistake area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you meet Byron?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9441442889518985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, and we did have IBM electric typewriters, which was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of typing. No mistakes, I bet, was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in that office, not so much. Later on, I went into security, and that was the no-mistake area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you meet Byron?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Leona was the personnel—what was Leona’s title? I’m not real sure. She hired. I don’t think she fired, but anyway—I don’t think in the government there’s a lot of that, is there? Philip [E.] Walker was the Personnel Director, and he kept coming down the hallway and bugging me, and this was I guess in early ’56. I started in ’54, and he would bug me. “Nellie, when in the blank-blank are you going to get married?”\\n\\n I said, “When you find me a guy.”\\n\\n He said, “I got one coming Monday.”\\n\\n I said, “Okay.” I said, “He better be tall.”\\n\\n “Yeah, he’s tall.”\\n\\n I said, “Okay.” I shouldn’t say this for the NASA archives, but I don’t think much work got done that Monday morning because my friend Darlene [McLaurin Seiler] and I stood at the window and waited and waited. We saw this guy come in, and he was kind of tall, and we said, “That must be him.”\n\nI didn’t have a chance.\n\nYou didn’t have a chance, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I was going to ask, did you know that was going to happen when you walked in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.604604765502109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in that office, not so much. Later on, I went into security, and that was the no-mistake area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you meet Byron?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Leona was the personnel—what was Leona’s title? I’m not real sure. She hired. I don’t think she fired, but anyway—I don’t think in the government there’s a lot of that, is there? Philip [E.] Walker was the Personnel Director, and he kept coming down the hallway and bugging me, and this was I guess in early ’56. I started in ’54, and he would bug me. “Nellie, when in the blank-blank are you going to get married?”\\n\\n I said, “When you find me a guy.”\\n\\n He said, “I got one coming Monday.”\\n\\n I said, “Okay.” I said, “He better be tall.”\\n\\n “Yeah, he’s tall.”\\n\\n I said, “Okay.” I shouldn’t say this for the NASA archives, but I don’t think much work got done that Monday morning because my friend Darlene [McLaurin Seiler] and I stood at the window and waited and waited. We saw this guy come in, and he was kind of tall, and we said, “That must be him.”\n\nI didn’t have a chance.\n\nYou didn’t have a chance, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I was going to ask, did you know that was going to happen when you walked in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No.\n\nI had another friend kept asking him, did he need a girlfriend, and he said, no, he needed a housekeeper. In those days, oh my gosh. My mother would have just—we didn’t tell her. But, anyway, that was in, like I say, February of ’56, and we were married May 11 of ’57. It didn’t take long for that snag.\n\nI think I got the best part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s sweet.\n\nWas it one of his first days that you saw him?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.042721932718654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No.\n\nI had another friend kept asking him, did he need a girlfriend, and he said, no, he needed a housekeeper. In those days, oh my gosh. My mother would have just—we didn’t tell her. But, anyway, that was in, like I say, February of ’56, and we were married May 11 of ’57. It didn’t take long for that snag.\n\nI think I got the best part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s sweet.\n\nWas it one of his first days that you saw him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first day. The first day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The very first day. He did have somebody lined up.\\n\\n Byron, some of the first days that you were there, were you learning from the people that had been there previously, or did they give you a project to work on that was yours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first days, they would kind of take you around and show you all the aircraft and things, show you the hangar, tell you what to do. Then they’d get you on an airplane probably right about the first week you were there. After that week, they’d get you on an airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what plane it was that you first worked on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.714135480798504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first day. The first day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The very first day. He did have somebody lined up.\\n\\n Byron, some of the first days that you were there, were you learning from the people that had been there previously, or did they give you a project to work on that was yours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first days, they would kind of take you around and show you all the aircraft and things, show you the hangar, tell you what to do. Then they’d get you on an airplane probably right about the first week you were there. After that week, they’d get you on an airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what plane it was that you first worked on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a C-47."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been up in the planes before when you were in the service?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.46015053422056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first days, they would kind of take you around and show you all the aircraft and things, show you the hangar, tell you what to do. Then they’d get you on an airplane probably right about the first week you were there. After that week, they’d get you on an airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what plane it was that you first worked on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a C-47."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been up in the planes before when you were in the service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, when I was in the service. But they were different planes. They were small, and I didn’t have anything big like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "C-47 is a pretty big plane."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 8.289056149133955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a C-47."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been up in the planes before when you were in the service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, when I was in the service. But they were different planes. They were small, and I didn’t have anything big like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "C-47 is a pretty big plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the work that you did on those first planes, were you out on the flight line, or was it all work inside the hangar?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5433957212599507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, when I was in the service. But they were different planes. They were small, and I didn’t have anything big like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "C-47 is a pretty big plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the work that you did on those first planes, were you out on the flight line, or was it all work inside the hangar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was out on the flight line. On the C-47, we took people to different places, Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California] or someplace, or down to LAX [Los Angeles International Airport] for some reason or other to pick somebody up. That lasted about two years, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you just assigned to one plane at a time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:60", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8259952458443895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the work that you did on those first planes, were you out on the flight line, or was it all work inside the hangar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was out on the flight line. On the C-47, we took people to different places, Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California] or someplace, or down to LAX [Los Angeles International Airport] for some reason or other to pick somebody up. That lasted about two years, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you just assigned to one plane at a time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were part of that crew that went wherever?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.139994717604877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was out on the flight line. On the C-47, we took people to different places, Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California] or someplace, or down to LAX [Los Angeles International Airport] for some reason or other to pick somebody up. That lasted about two years, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you just assigned to one plane at a time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were part of that crew that went wherever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, me and the pilots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet you knew more about the plane than the pilots."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:64", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4888830195609746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were part of that crew that went wherever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, me and the pilots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet you knew more about the plane than the pilots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don’t know. They had flown it for quite a while. It was an old one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll bet it was important you were there, then, if it was old, to keep it going. Do you remember any specific challenges with the C-47 that you had to deal with?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:66", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.876536688401083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, me and the pilots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet you knew more about the plane than the pilots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don’t know. They had flown it for quite a while. It was an old one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll bet it was important you were there, then, if it was old, to keep it going. Do you remember any specific challenges with the C-47 that you had to deal with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I can’t think of anything. Like I say, it was an old airplane, so it was pretty well worked on before I got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds pretty reliable, though. What did you move on to after the C-47?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:68", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.307262987112314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don’t know. They had flown it for quite a while. It was an old one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll bet it was important you were there, then, if it was old, to keep it going. Do you remember any specific challenges with the C-47 that you had to deal with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I can’t think of anything. Like I say, it was an old airplane, so it was pretty well worked on before I got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds pretty reliable, though. What did you move on to after the C-47?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the 102-A, and then a 100-A and a 104."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of difference between those three airplanes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.7858477634581265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I can’t think of anything. Like I say, it was an old airplane, so it was pretty well worked on before I got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds pretty reliable, though. What did you move on to after the C-47?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the 102-A, and then a 100-A and a 104."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of difference between those three airplanes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they’re all jet planes. But, I didn’t have any jet training in school. Everyone helped you out. We had all kinds of people that knew more than I did at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess they all learned the way you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.317608626064585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the 102-A, and then a 100-A and a 104."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of difference between those three airplanes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they’re all jet planes. But, I didn’t have any jet training in school. Everyone helped you out. We had all kinds of people that knew more than I did at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess they all learned the way you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From someone else?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.90845402896065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they’re all jet planes. But, I didn’t have any jet training in school. Everyone helped you out. We had all kinds of people that knew more than I did at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess they all learned the way you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From someone else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did some of those men come from Langley that were mechanics as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.564948921067389, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From someone else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did some of those men come from Langley that were mechanics as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They had what they called inspectors, too, so they would come and tell you something or show you how to do something, and it was pretty easy to get it fixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you fly on the 100 series as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.294387690074877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did some of those men come from Langley that were mechanics as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They had what they called inspectors, too, so they would come and tell you something or show you how to do something, and it was pretty easy to get it fixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you fly on the 100 series as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it just a one-seater?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.9937641000831965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They had what they called inspectors, too, so they would come and tell you something or show you how to do something, and it was pretty easy to get it fixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you fly on the 100 series as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it just a one-seater?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Most of them were one. Well, the 104s had two seats, but all the rest of them were just one-seaters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are pretty fast airplanes, aren’t they?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:82", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.770849000092441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it just a one-seater?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Most of them were one. Well, the 104s had two seats, but all the rest of them were just one-seaters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are pretty fast airplanes, aren’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, at some point, you moved over to Rocket Power Systems, didn’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:84", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.300943333436045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Most of them were one. Well, the 104s had two seats, but all the rest of them were just one-seaters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are pretty fast airplanes, aren’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, at some point, you moved over to Rocket Power Systems, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, 104 was the last one, and then I went to the rocket shop which was coming up for the [North American] X-15. The X-15 was coming in, so they needed more people in there. They asked me if I would rather be there, and I said, “Sure.” So I went and worked on the rocket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts when you first saw that engine?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:86", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.889937037151161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, at some point, you moved over to Rocket Power Systems, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, 104 was the last one, and then I went to the rocket shop which was coming up for the [North American] X-15. The X-15 was coming in, so they needed more people in there. They asked me if I would rather be there, and I said, “Sure.” So I went and worked on the rocket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts when you first saw that engine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I heard it, it was worse. Yes, it was a pretty noisy airplane, and they would have to run the engine, and so they had to have somebody that would walk out and check everything. That was really a scare because it makes a lot of noise. There was one case where the engine did blow up, and the pilot was in it, and it scooted him ahead and left all the back of the engine on the tarmac."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you out there at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:88", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.544374485723512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, 104 was the last one, and then I went to the rocket shop which was coming up for the [North American] X-15. The X-15 was coming in, so they needed more people in there. They asked me if I would rather be there, and I said, “Sure.” So I went and worked on the rocket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts when you first saw that engine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I heard it, it was worse. Yes, it was a pretty noisy airplane, and they would have to run the engine, and so they had to have somebody that would walk out and check everything. That was really a scare because it makes a lot of noise. There was one case where the engine did blow up, and the pilot was in it, and it scooted him ahead and left all the back of the engine on the tarmac."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you out there at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I wasn’t there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Did they have any type of protective equipment for you to wear when you were working around that plane?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:90", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.271527206359458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I heard it, it was worse. Yes, it was a pretty noisy airplane, and they would have to run the engine, and so they had to have somebody that would walk out and check everything. That was really a scare because it makes a lot of noise. There was one case where the engine did blow up, and the pilot was in it, and it scooted him ahead and left all the back of the engine on the tarmac."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you out there at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I wasn’t there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Did they have any type of protective equipment for you to wear when you were working around that plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you had to wear all kinds of stuff, masks and things because of the propellant, and the exhaust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to wear things for your ears?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:92", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.079474673732731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I wasn’t there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Did they have any type of protective equipment for you to wear when you were working around that plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you had to wear all kinds of stuff, masks and things because of the propellant, and the exhaust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to wear things for your ears?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They had very good hats with plugs in the ears and a shield on it. When it was running, you had to get up there and check all these things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were dressed like a space man with the whole suit."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:94", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.977194081925257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you had to wear all kinds of stuff, masks and things because of the propellant, and the exhaust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to wear things for your ears?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They had very good hats with plugs in the ears and a shield on it. When it was running, you had to get up there and check all these things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were dressed like a space man with the whole suit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were just lucky that there was nobody there when the one went up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there to check the plane out before it took off and after it landed?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:96", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.974660091028063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They had very good hats with plugs in the ears and a shield on it. When it was running, you had to get up there and check all these things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were dressed like a space man with the whole suit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were just lucky that there was nobody there when the one went up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there to check the plane out before it took off and after it landed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That part of your job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:98", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.971844545586737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were just lucky that there was nobody there when the one went up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there to check the plane out before it took off and after it landed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That part of your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have to put the rocket fuel into it before it takes off. So, we’d have to get up early in the morning and go out and put all the rocket fuel in it, and it’d take off and fly back. It was pretty interesting, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess so. Were you ever in the plane [Boeing B-52 Stratofortress mother ship] when it launched?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:100", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.079827272874153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That part of your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have to put the rocket fuel into it before it takes off. So, we’d have to get up early in the morning and go out and put all the rocket fuel in it, and it’d take off and fly back. It was pretty interesting, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess so. Were you ever in the plane [Boeing B-52 Stratofortress mother ship] when it launched?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the first flight of the X-15 with Joe [Joseph A.] Walker?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:102", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.08869696986017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have to put the rocket fuel into it before it takes off. So, we’d have to get up early in the morning and go out and put all the rocket fuel in it, and it’d take off and fly back. It was pretty interesting, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess so. Were you ever in the plane [Boeing B-52 Stratofortress mother ship] when it launched?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the first flight of the X-15 with Joe [Joseph A.] Walker?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, they had an ex-flier from NACA [A. Scott Crossfield], and he worked with the people that made the airplane [North American]. He flew it [on a test flight] and broke it [when he] had to [make an emergency] landing. So, anyway, I wasn’t at the first one, but all the rest of them, we were there. North American made it, and they had to take the plane back in and fix it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s that word about experimental and research?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:104", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.209663299844632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the first flight of the X-15 with Joe [Joseph A.] Walker?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, they had an ex-flier from NACA [A. Scott Crossfield], and he worked with the people that made the airplane [North American]. He flew it [on a test flight] and broke it [when he] had to [make an emergency] landing. So, anyway, I wasn’t at the first one, but all the rest of them, we were there. North American made it, and they had to take the plane back in and fix it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s that word about experimental and research?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nellie, you were kind of involved in the paperwork, weren’t you, with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:106", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.455181444271814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, they had an ex-flier from NACA [A. Scott Crossfield], and he worked with the people that made the airplane [North American]. He flew it [on a test flight] and broke it [when he] had to [make an emergency] landing. So, anyway, I wasn’t at the first one, but all the rest of them, we were there. North American made it, and they had to take the plane back in and fix it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s that word about experimental and research?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nellie, you were kind of involved in the paperwork, weren’t you, with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Share with us that story about how you were working, I think, security at the time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:110", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.673063511446681, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Share with us that story about how you were working, I think, security at the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I didn’t really stay that long in the fiscal office, and it was informal working out there because I think there were less than 200 of us. Marion Kent was the Administrative Officer, plus he did security, and he had a summertime temp who I had known in school. She was leaving to go to college. He comes down to where I am, looking in the door. I don’t know if he had checked with Mr. Garbett or what, but he was going, “Psst, psst!” and motioning me into the hall. I thought, “Oh Lord, I wonder what I’ve done now.”\\n\\n I went out there, and he said, “Would you be interested in transferring to my office, to the security office?”\\n\\n I was kind of shaking in my boots, but I said, “Okay.” Then he went in, talked to Mr. Garbett, and I think I started down there the following week. One of the jobs there was typing these security clearances, which were the top secrets at the time, and it was mostly for the guys out in the aircraft area and the engineers. There were eight copies, and you did them on a typewriter, and that’s where the no mistakes came in, and I thought, “Oh my gosh!” But I loved typing, so we got through that.\\n\\n One of the jobs was the security conference, or the X-15 security conference that they were going to have. It was over on the Base, as I recall, and I had to get up with the chickens and go over there and be there and register people and so forth and make sure that they were cleared to attend. That was kind of fun. The X-15 didn’t really have a name at that point. It was project something-or-other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Project 1226."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was that it? So it was a project, and it was soon after that it was unveiled as the X-15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any idea of what the project was?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:114", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.300078409193434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was that it? So it was a project, and it was soon after that it was unveiled as the X-15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any idea of what the project was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We knew, yes. Right, yes. So, that was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, you had to have a security clearance, I would think, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right, and Byron had one. In fact, most of us had a security clearance, but some of them had higher degrees, of course, which is the way it is now, too, I’m sure. As I recall, I was expecting at that point, so I think my days were numbered when that happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You definitely had a deadline, then, didn’t you? Life was about to change."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:116", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 14.777864899103815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We knew, yes. Right, yes. So, that was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, you had to have a security clearance, I would think, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right, and Byron had one. In fact, most of us had a security clearance, but some of them had higher degrees, of course, which is the way it is now, too, I’m sure. As I recall, I was expecting at that point, so I think my days were numbered when that happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You definitely had a deadline, then, didn’t you? Life was about to change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you left, would you share with us some of what you saw as part of the experimental planes? Was that something that you, as a personnel person, could go watch the landings of the planes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:118", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.958794237317198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right, and Byron had one. In fact, most of us had a security clearance, but some of them had higher degrees, of course, which is the way it is now, too, I’m sure. As I recall, I was expecting at that point, so I think my days were numbered when that happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You definitely had a deadline, then, didn’t you? Life was about to change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you left, would you share with us some of what you saw as part of the experimental planes? Was that something that you, as a personnel person, could go watch the landings of the planes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We could, and this is really embarrassing, but there was many, many years when I said I would never, ever set foot in an airplane. I said I never wanted to fly. I don’t know what scared me about flying, because we always have airplanes going over living here, but I didn’t want to ever fly.\\n\\n One Christmas Eve, Stan [Stanley P.] Butchart was one of the well-known pilots, and he flew the Gooney Bird [C-47] like they called it, which Byron was on. He was taking all the ladies to buzz Disneyland because he had to go down below anyway. It wasn’t just a regular flight to take. He invited all the girls to go down and fly over Disneyland, and I said, “No way!” I was the only girl that stayed at the Station that day. I wouldn’t go.\\n\\n But through the years and while I was there and even after I left, we’d go watch landings, but I saw the X-15 take off and land a few times, and it was pretty exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially when you consider, not many people have that memory, because there weren’t that many people to see that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:120", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.84310470813022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you left, would you share with us some of what you saw as part of the experimental planes? Was that something that you, as a personnel person, could go watch the landings of the planes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We could, and this is really embarrassing, but there was many, many years when I said I would never, ever set foot in an airplane. I said I never wanted to fly. I don’t know what scared me about flying, because we always have airplanes going over living here, but I didn’t want to ever fly.\\n\\n One Christmas Eve, Stan [Stanley P.] Butchart was one of the well-known pilots, and he flew the Gooney Bird [C-47] like they called it, which Byron was on. He was taking all the ladies to buzz Disneyland because he had to go down below anyway. It wasn’t just a regular flight to take. He invited all the girls to go down and fly over Disneyland, and I said, “No way!” I was the only girl that stayed at the Station that day. I wouldn’t go.\\n\\n But through the years and while I was there and even after I left, we’d go watch landings, but I saw the X-15 take off and land a few times, and it was pretty exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially when you consider, not many people have that memory, because there weren’t that many people to see that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Center out there is, I think, only two or three stories. We could go up on the roof and watch, and that was always fun, too, looking down or up or whatever it was. It was lots of fun.\n\nProblem was, it usually was real early in the morning.\n\nYes, yes.\n\nJust about daybreak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your neighbors ask you what all those sounds and noises that they heard from the base?\n\nThe sound barrier being broken.\n\nWere people asking about what was going on at the Center?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:122", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.381227453478022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We could, and this is really embarrassing, but there was many, many years when I said I would never, ever set foot in an airplane. I said I never wanted to fly. I don’t know what scared me about flying, because we always have airplanes going over living here, but I didn’t want to ever fly.\\n\\n One Christmas Eve, Stan [Stanley P.] Butchart was one of the well-known pilots, and he flew the Gooney Bird [C-47] like they called it, which Byron was on. He was taking all the ladies to buzz Disneyland because he had to go down below anyway. It wasn’t just a regular flight to take. He invited all the girls to go down and fly over Disneyland, and I said, “No way!” I was the only girl that stayed at the Station that day. I wouldn’t go.\\n\\n But through the years and while I was there and even after I left, we’d go watch landings, but I saw the X-15 take off and land a few times, and it was pretty exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially when you consider, not many people have that memory, because there weren’t that many people to see that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Center out there is, I think, only two or three stories. We could go up on the roof and watch, and that was always fun, too, looking down or up or whatever it was. It was lots of fun.\n\nProblem was, it usually was real early in the morning.\n\nYes, yes.\n\nJust about daybreak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your neighbors ask you what all those sounds and noises that they heard from the base?\n\nThe sound barrier being broken.\n\nWere people asking about what was going on at the Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. It was kind of aircraft city here in the ’50s and ’60s, so people knew. They lived through the Shuttle [sonic] booms [years later]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a family atmosphere for you to work in? You felt like people were friends?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:124", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.756919392753358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Center out there is, I think, only two or three stories. We could go up on the roof and watch, and that was always fun, too, looking down or up or whatever it was. It was lots of fun.\n\nProblem was, it usually was real early in the morning.\n\nYes, yes.\n\nJust about daybreak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your neighbors ask you what all those sounds and noises that they heard from the base?\n\nThe sound barrier being broken.\n\nWere people asking about what was going on at the Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. It was kind of aircraft city here in the ’50s and ’60s, so people knew. They lived through the Shuttle [sonic] booms [years later]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a family atmosphere for you to work in? You felt like people were friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much so. We did a lot of things together because there were so few of us. Rosamond is a little town as you come out the dry lake, and so we would have dances and stuff up there at one of the clubs in Rosamond, because the guys could come from the Base and other people from Lancaster. Yes, we had a lot of social things going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there much about the transition from NACA to NASA that you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.174354880837065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. It was kind of aircraft city here in the ’50s and ’60s, so people knew. They lived through the Shuttle [sonic] booms [years later]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a family atmosphere for you to work in? You felt like people were friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much so. We did a lot of things together because there were so few of us. Rosamond is a little town as you come out the dry lake, and so we would have dances and stuff up there at one of the clubs in Rosamond, because the guys could come from the Base and other people from Lancaster. Yes, we had a lot of social things going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there much about the transition from NACA to NASA that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I tried to think about that, and I really it just happened, and you really didn’t notice it. Other than a lot of forms had to be changed, I didn’t notice much. Maybe a few more people gradually started hiring on because we were really small before that. I didn’t notice much change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Byron, do you remember much of the transition? Especially after Sputnik [Russian satellite] did things seem to be more accelerated or changed in thought on how the experiments were being done or the research being done there with the airplanes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.5270609787078495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much so. We did a lot of things together because there were so few of us. Rosamond is a little town as you come out the dry lake, and so we would have dances and stuff up there at one of the clubs in Rosamond, because the guys could come from the Base and other people from Lancaster. Yes, we had a lot of social things going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there much about the transition from NACA to NASA that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I tried to think about that, and I really it just happened, and you really didn’t notice it. Other than a lot of forms had to be changed, I didn’t notice much. Maybe a few more people gradually started hiring on because we were really small before that. I didn’t notice much change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Byron, do you remember much of the transition? Especially after Sputnik [Russian satellite] did things seem to be more accelerated or changed in thought on how the experiments were being done or the research being done there with the airplanes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It probably was started up a little faster. Not too much. See, all of the X-15 was NASA. They did hire more people for it, and North American, the builder, was there, too. So, they had guys that would tell you what to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess they knew that airplane well, North American. Did their mechanics come out to work on the plane as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8078455318976103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I tried to think about that, and I really it just happened, and you really didn’t notice it. Other than a lot of forms had to be changed, I didn’t notice much. Maybe a few more people gradually started hiring on because we were really small before that. I didn’t notice much change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Byron, do you remember much of the transition? Especially after Sputnik [Russian satellite] did things seem to be more accelerated or changed in thought on how the experiments were being done or the research being done there with the airplanes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It probably was started up a little faster. Not too much. See, all of the X-15 was NASA. They did hire more people for it, and North American, the builder, was there, too. So, they had guys that would tell you what to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess they knew that airplane well, North American. Did their mechanics come out to work on the plane as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did. They helped on them too, for a while, until we got going good. I spent a lot of four o’clock in the mornings on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were your hours always long or was it just depending on what project you were working on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1198283687751225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It probably was started up a little faster. Not too much. See, all of the X-15 was NASA. They did hire more people for it, and North American, the builder, was there, too. So, they had guys that would tell you what to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess they knew that airplane well, North American. Did their mechanics come out to work on the plane as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did. They helped on them too, for a while, until we got going good. I spent a lot of four o’clock in the mornings on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were your hours always long or was it just depending on what project you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, just that project. The X-15 needed to go early in the morning hours just about every time it seems like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Part of the time you were working with the X-15, you were working on the crew support systems. Is that correct? The life support and egress systems equipment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4664759653056914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did. They helped on them too, for a while, until we got going good. I spent a lot of four o’clock in the mornings on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were your hours always long or was it just depending on what project you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, just that project. The X-15 needed to go early in the morning hours just about every time it seems like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Part of the time you were working with the X-15, you were working on the crew support systems. Is that correct? The life support and egress systems equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had to change from the rocket shop into the life support. We would take the pilot in and put his suit on, and he had to wear a suit. We would take him and put him into a seat. He usually went and to fly and take off. Of course, when he came back, we had to take care of all the stuff he had on and take that off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then had to prepare it for the next time? Did each pilot have their own set of equipment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.851639961450768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, just that project. The X-15 needed to go early in the morning hours just about every time it seems like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Part of the time you were working with the X-15, you were working on the crew support systems. Is that correct? The life support and egress systems equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had to change from the rocket shop into the life support. We would take the pilot in and put his suit on, and he had to wear a suit. We would take him and put him into a seat. He usually went and to fly and take off. Of course, when he came back, we had to take care of all the stuff he had on and take that off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then had to prepare it for the next time? Did each pilot have their own set of equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they all had their own equipment, suits and breathing apparatuses and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that change over time? The improvements for that equipment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.27959995716752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had to change from the rocket shop into the life support. We would take the pilot in and put his suit on, and he had to wear a suit. We would take him and put him into a seat. He usually went and to fly and take off. Of course, when he came back, we had to take care of all the stuff he had on and take that off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then had to prepare it for the next time? Did each pilot have their own set of equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they all had their own equipment, suits and breathing apparatuses and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that change over time? The improvements for that equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it changed, some of it got a little better equipment, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you move into that area to be an equipment specialist?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.870507485826502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they all had their own equipment, suits and breathing apparatuses and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that change over time? The improvements for that equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it changed, some of it got a little better equipment, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you move into that area to be an equipment specialist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were getting rid of other people, because the X-15 was getting where it was slowing down and moving out. The person that was in charge came over and said, “Do you want to go with us?”\\n\\n I said, “Okay, sure.” The rocket shop, I think was about the best, that I liked the best. But still, it was someplace to go I think, more than anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still working with high-powered, high-performance aircraft."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.411674984251668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it changed, some of it got a little better equipment, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you move into that area to be an equipment specialist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were getting rid of other people, because the X-15 was getting where it was slowing down and moving out. The person that was in charge came over and said, “Do you want to go with us?”\\n\\n I said, “Okay, sure.” The rocket shop, I think was about the best, that I liked the best. But still, it was someplace to go I think, more than anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still working with high-powered, high-performance aircraft."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I still worked on the X-15, putting them in and everything like that. Then, any airplane they flew, sometimes if they wanted to go to altitude, they had to put a suit on, even the 104s.\n\nDidn’t you do parachutes too?\n\nYes, parachutes. We had to take the [ejection] seats out, too, and the parachutes, we took them down to the Air Force, and they packed them. The suits were in the Air Force, too, because they would know how to take care of them. But we put them on the pilot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been a significant checklist. Did you have to do specific things in a specific order?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.0129722047240755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were getting rid of other people, because the X-15 was getting where it was slowing down and moving out. The person that was in charge came over and said, “Do you want to go with us?”\\n\\n I said, “Okay, sure.” The rocket shop, I think was about the best, that I liked the best. But still, it was someplace to go I think, more than anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still working with high-powered, high-performance aircraft."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I still worked on the X-15, putting them in and everything like that. Then, any airplane they flew, sometimes if they wanted to go to altitude, they had to put a suit on, even the 104s.\n\nDidn’t you do parachutes too?\n\nYes, parachutes. We had to take the [ejection] seats out, too, and the parachutes, we took them down to the Air Force, and they packed them. The suits were in the Air Force, too, because they would know how to take care of them. But we put them on the pilot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been a significant checklist. Did you have to do specific things in a specific order?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do with the ejection seat installation and removal? What did that entail?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.569969116360084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I still worked on the X-15, putting them in and everything like that. Then, any airplane they flew, sometimes if they wanted to go to altitude, they had to put a suit on, even the 104s.\n\nDidn’t you do parachutes too?\n\nYes, parachutes. We had to take the [ejection] seats out, too, and the parachutes, we took them down to the Air Force, and they packed them. The suits were in the Air Force, too, because they would know how to take care of them. But we put them on the pilot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been a significant checklist. Did you have to do specific things in a specific order?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do with the ejection seat installation and removal? What did that entail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are parts that have to be removed and put in the new parts, because they go out of date. They had a date on them that they would be changed at a certain date, so we had to do that. That’s about all I think about in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever see a pilot have to use that ejection seat?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.188854573733426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do with the ejection seat installation and removal? What did that entail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are parts that have to be removed and put in the new parts, because they go out of date. They had a date on them that they would be changed at a certain date, so we had to do that. That’s about all I think about in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever see a pilot have to use that ejection seat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I’ve seen pictures of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also worked on the [Lockheed] SR-71 [Blackbird], so was that a different airplane compared to all of the others that you had done before?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.876505081926029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are parts that have to be removed and put in the new parts, because they go out of date. They had a date on them that they would be changed at a certain date, so we had to do that. That’s about all I think about in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever see a pilot have to use that ejection seat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I’ve seen pictures of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also worked on the [Lockheed] SR-71 [Blackbird], so was that a different airplane compared to all of the others that you had done before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was faster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I hear."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.640561202140033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I’ve seen pictures of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also worked on the [Lockheed] SR-71 [Blackbird], so was that a different airplane compared to all of the others that you had done before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was faster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I hear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, it was less work for us. We still had to take the seats out, but it was really, really nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At some point, you became the supervisor."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.489512446822259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was faster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I hear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, it was less work for us. We still had to take the seats out, but it was really, really nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At some point, you became the supervisor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had people that you were responsible for. Did you have a big crew of folks?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.432791607580286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, it was less work for us. We still had to take the seats out, but it was really, really nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At some point, you became the supervisor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had people that you were responsible for. Did you have a big crew of folks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you train them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.480879563978096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had people that you were responsible for. Did you have a big crew of folks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you train them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we trained them. When I was there, which wasn’t very long, the supervisor retired. The pilots put me in to be the supervisor, and we had to get people and train them, and there are two good ones left, and I was there with three other ones. They all got pretty good. There was one guy that had been in the Air Force and he knew how to do the things, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your time there, the Space Shuttle was moving into development, and they tested with the Approach and Landing Tests [ALT], the flights there. Can you talk some about what that was like to see that flying machine compared to the other ones that you had seen?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.200977293308997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you train them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we trained them. When I was there, which wasn’t very long, the supervisor retired. The pilots put me in to be the supervisor, and we had to get people and train them, and there are two good ones left, and I was there with three other ones. They all got pretty good. There was one guy that had been in the Air Force and he knew how to do the things, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your time there, the Space Shuttle was moving into development, and they tested with the Approach and Landing Tests [ALT], the flights there. Can you talk some about what that was like to see that flying machine compared to the other ones that you had seen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was different. It was getting up early again. We always had to do that. Of course, we had a van that we put all the suits on the people, and so we had to get out there early in the morning and put the people within the van, all with the suits. Also, on the YF-12s [SR-71]. We put the suits on the people, and when they came off, we took the suits off. There was a period where they were landing just at Edwards and not Florida [Kennedy Space Center]. They just landed at Edwards. We would have to go out and do it then, to pick them up and take their suits off, and then when it was going to go again, they would put them back on. They had them landing out at Edwards, quite a few of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was the time after the [Space Shuttle] Enterprise rolled out of the factory, and then when it was ready to come here, I understand it just came down the main drag. Do you remember that? Can you share with us what it was like seeing it come down the main roads?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.7788636592322185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we trained them. When I was there, which wasn’t very long, the supervisor retired. The pilots put me in to be the supervisor, and we had to get people and train them, and there are two good ones left, and I was there with three other ones. They all got pretty good. There was one guy that had been in the Air Force and he knew how to do the things, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your time there, the Space Shuttle was moving into development, and they tested with the Approach and Landing Tests [ALT], the flights there. Can you talk some about what that was like to see that flying machine compared to the other ones that you had seen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was different. It was getting up early again. We always had to do that. Of course, we had a van that we put all the suits on the people, and so we had to get out there early in the morning and put the people within the van, all with the suits. Also, on the YF-12s [SR-71]. We put the suits on the people, and when they came off, we took the suits off. There was a period where they were landing just at Edwards and not Florida [Kennedy Space Center]. They just landed at Edwards. We would have to go out and do it then, to pick them up and take their suits off, and then when it was going to go again, they would put them back on. They had them landing out at Edwards, quite a few of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was the time after the [Space Shuttle] Enterprise rolled out of the factory, and then when it was ready to come here, I understand it just came down the main drag. Do you remember that? Can you share with us what it was like seeing it come down the main roads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s called Challenger Way now. [It also traveled the same route.] They renamed the street for it, but we didn’t go out and see it. Everyone knew that it was going down 10th Street East."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been a sight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.420959621369131, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was different. It was getting up early again. We always had to do that. Of course, we had a van that we put all the suits on the people, and so we had to get out there early in the morning and put the people within the van, all with the suits. Also, on the YF-12s [SR-71]. We put the suits on the people, and when they came off, we took the suits off. There was a period where they were landing just at Edwards and not Florida [Kennedy Space Center]. They just landed at Edwards. We would have to go out and do it then, to pick them up and take their suits off, and then when it was going to go again, they would put them back on. They had them landing out at Edwards, quite a few of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was the time after the [Space Shuttle] Enterprise rolled out of the factory, and then when it was ready to come here, I understand it just came down the main drag. Do you remember that? Can you share with us what it was like seeing it come down the main roads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s called Challenger Way now. [It also traveled the same route.] They renamed the street for it, but we didn’t go out and see it. Everyone knew that it was going down 10th Street East."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been a sight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they had to take all the power lines down out in the street. North American did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, next, you see it on a [modified Boeing] 747 [Shuttle Carrier Aircraft]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.134399579299035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s called Challenger Way now. [It also traveled the same route.] They renamed the street for it, but we didn’t go out and see it. Everyone knew that it was going down 10th Street East."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been a sight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they had to take all the power lines down out in the street. North American did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, next, you see it on a [modified Boeing] 747 [Shuttle Carrier Aircraft]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you out there for all of the ALT?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.927110643665594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they had to take all the power lines down out in the street. North American did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, next, you see it on a [modified Boeing] 747 [Shuttle Carrier Aircraft]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you out there for all of the ALT?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you all able to see the landings as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.130467275261445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you out there for all of the ALT?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you all able to see the landings as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, oh yes. We went to the first [Space Shuttle] Columbia [STS-1] flight. The kids were small."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then were you able to be out there when the President [Ronald Reagan] came [STS-4 landing]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.811630305846049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you all able to see the landings as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, oh yes. We went to the first [Space Shuttle] Columbia [STS-1] flight. The kids were small."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then were you able to be out there when the President [Ronald Reagan] came [STS-4 landing]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, yes. That was quite a day, too.\n\nWe were there. Yes.\n\nOur good friend, Fitz [Fitzhugh L.] Fulton, of course, his funeral is the 28th of this month, but he’s the one that flew the 747 over and dipped the wing at the President and First Lady. Byron worked that flight, too. You drove the van for that, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That had to be exciting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.298309019563023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, oh yes. We went to the first [Space Shuttle] Columbia [STS-1] flight. The kids were small."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then were you able to be out there when the President [Ronald Reagan] came [STS-4 landing]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, yes. That was quite a day, too.\n\nWe were there. Yes.\n\nOur good friend, Fitz [Fitzhugh L.] Fulton, of course, his funeral is the 28th of this month, but he’s the one that flew the 747 over and dipped the wing at the President and First Lady. Byron worked that flight, too. You drove the van for that, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That had to be exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. Lots of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that was a difference in itself. You hadn’t had lots of crowds watching approach and landings at that runway before, like it was for the Shuttle."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.109232243958914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, yes. That was quite a day, too.\n\nWe were there. Yes.\n\nOur good friend, Fitz [Fitzhugh L.] Fulton, of course, his funeral is the 28th of this month, but he’s the one that flew the 747 over and dipped the wing at the President and First Lady. Byron worked that flight, too. You drove the van for that, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That had to be exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. Lots of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that was a difference in itself. You hadn’t had lots of crowds watching approach and landings at that runway before, like it was for the Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yes. That was, I think, the first time they had a landing and a takeoff in the same day, yes.\n\nThe SRs were pretty bad, too. Nobody got in to watch them. It was real interesting. It’s a real interesting airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you call it interesting?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.665718819702362, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. Lots of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that was a difference in itself. You hadn’t had lots of crowds watching approach and landings at that runway before, like it was for the Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yes. That was, I think, the first time they had a landing and a takeoff in the same day, yes.\n\nThe SRs were pretty bad, too. Nobody got in to watch them. It was real interesting. It’s a real interesting airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you call it interesting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it’s made different. Yes, and it was all real heavy. They were special wings. If the pilot didn’t want a suit, we built up where he could just go halfway up. He didn’t have to have a suit on. He would have had this pressure suit that we built up for him. Actually, it was made in England. I had to go over there and check out two pilots. We had to take the pilots out to England to check them out in the suit. It did get a lot of use. We called it a half-pressure suit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to go to England, Nellie?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.517465355224846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yes. That was, I think, the first time they had a landing and a takeoff in the same day, yes.\n\nThe SRs were pretty bad, too. Nobody got in to watch them. It was real interesting. It’s a real interesting airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you call it interesting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it’s made different. Yes, and it was all real heavy. They were special wings. If the pilot didn’t want a suit, we built up where he could just go halfway up. He didn’t have to have a suit on. He would have had this pressure suit that we built up for him. Actually, it was made in England. I had to go over there and check out two pilots. We had to take the pilots out to England to check them out in the suit. It did get a lot of use. We called it a half-pressure suit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to go to England, Nellie?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I had a nephew that was stationed over there at [Royal Air Force Base] Mildenhall on the SR, and so he took Byron out to see his plane.\n\nI took a little trip up the water from where we went because he was up with the SRs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was good timing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:192", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.463850394694273, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it’s made different. Yes, and it was all real heavy. They were special wings. If the pilot didn’t want a suit, we built up where he could just go halfway up. He didn’t have to have a suit on. He would have had this pressure suit that we built up for him. Actually, it was made in England. I had to go over there and check out two pilots. We had to take the pilots out to England to check them out in the suit. It did get a lot of use. We called it a half-pressure suit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to go to England, Nellie?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I had a nephew that was stationed over there at [Royal Air Force Base] Mildenhall on the SR, and so he took Byron out to see his plane.\n\nI took a little trip up the water from where we went because he was up with the SRs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was good timing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Byron come home and share a lot about what was going on at the Center after you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:194", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.00391000643933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I had a nephew that was stationed over there at [Royal Air Force Base] Mildenhall on the SR, and so he took Byron out to see his plane.\n\nI took a little trip up the water from where we went because he was up with the SRs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was good timing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Byron come home and share a lot about what was going on at the Center after you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but we all kept up. We had a group called WONASA. It was the Women of NASA, and so we met, and a lot of them are still friends. Those of us still living are lifelong friends, and so we would keep up. We always knew what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Filled in the blanks that you did know."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 8.893233340488145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Byron come home and share a lot about what was going on at the Center after you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but we all kept up. We had a group called WONASA. It was the Women of NASA, and so we met, and a lot of them are still friends. Those of us still living are lifelong friends, and so we would keep up. We always knew what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Filled in the blanks that you did know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because if you start out with a facility—I was at the local hospital for 24 years after that—but you still keep up. And aircraft is so big in the valley that everybody’s interested.\n\nWe used to have picnics and all kinds of things.\n\nI laughed because it said in there, did you ever meet any dignitaries, and I thought, yes, Neil [A.] Armstrong, but he was just a cute guy that was single in those days. He went to the picnics and all of that. But, he wasn’t so famous at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the pilot names that so many people read and that people grow up seeing them as heroes, were you’re friends."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1035926005423833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but we all kept up. We had a group called WONASA. It was the Women of NASA, and so we met, and a lot of them are still friends. Those of us still living are lifelong friends, and so we would keep up. We always knew what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Filled in the blanks that you did know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because if you start out with a facility—I was at the local hospital for 24 years after that—but you still keep up. And aircraft is so big in the valley that everybody’s interested.\n\nWe used to have picnics and all kinds of things.\n\nI laughed because it said in there, did you ever meet any dignitaries, and I thought, yes, Neil [A.] Armstrong, but he was just a cute guy that was single in those days. He went to the picnics and all of that. But, he wasn’t so famous at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the pilot names that so many people read and that people grow up seeing them as heroes, were you’re friends."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Joe Walker and Gracie lived across Avenue L. We weren’t here. We were just in town, which we only moved three miles away, but yes. Joe Walker, Stan Butchart. We all went to church together. Fitz Fulton there, a long-time Methodist. We all just intermingled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I’ve read about out here, especially, because it was a smaller site, and it was all pretty seamless, and everybody had social activities together and gatherings, and no one worried about who worked for who or that sort of thing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.337325111713759, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because if you start out with a facility—I was at the local hospital for 24 years after that—but you still keep up. And aircraft is so big in the valley that everybody’s interested.\n\nWe used to have picnics and all kinds of things.\n\nI laughed because it said in there, did you ever meet any dignitaries, and I thought, yes, Neil [A.] Armstrong, but he was just a cute guy that was single in those days. He went to the picnics and all of that. But, he wasn’t so famous at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the pilot names that so many people read and that people grow up seeing them as heroes, were you’re friends."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Joe Walker and Gracie lived across Avenue L. We weren’t here. We were just in town, which we only moved three miles away, but yes. Joe Walker, Stan Butchart. We all went to church together. Fitz Fulton there, a long-time Methodist. We all just intermingled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I’ve read about out here, especially, because it was a smaller site, and it was all pretty seamless, and everybody had social activities together and gatherings, and no one worried about who worked for who or that sort of thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yes. Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever think about leaving? You met so many people from North American and maybe, as well, from other aircraft makers. Did you ever think about leaving and going to work for industry?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.206207286301452, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Joe Walker and Gracie lived across Avenue L. We weren’t here. We were just in town, which we only moved three miles away, but yes. Joe Walker, Stan Butchart. We all went to church together. Fitz Fulton there, a long-time Methodist. We all just intermingled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I’ve read about out here, especially, because it was a smaller site, and it was all pretty seamless, and everybody had social activities together and gatherings, and no one worried about who worked for who or that sort of thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yes. Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever think about leaving? You met so many people from North American and maybe, as well, from other aircraft makers. Did you ever think about leaving and going to work for industry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You liked it out there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.052410543623391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yes. Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever think about leaving? You met so many people from North American and maybe, as well, from other aircraft makers. Did you ever think about leaving and going to work for industry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You liked it out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they were always laying off somebody.\n\nThey did, yes.\n\nWhen they made something and finished it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there managers or leaders out at the Center that you recall, you especially enjoyed working with or learned from them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.2804561595815454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You liked it out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they were always laying off somebody.\n\nThey did, yes.\n\nWhen they made something and finished it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there managers or leaders out at the Center that you recall, you especially enjoyed working with or learned from them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Roger [J.] Barnicki.\n\nHe was in the life support department. Jack Russell. His brother brought you down here.\n\nJack Russell, he was really good. There was a lot of aircraft that I worked on with people. They did most of the work, but they would have somebody in charge of it on the airplane, and they all were good. Actually, even the inspectors were good, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you find to be the most challenging part of your job? Especially when you were encountering a new aircraft. What was the hardest part?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4227290662017167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they were always laying off somebody.\n\nThey did, yes.\n\nWhen they made something and finished it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there managers or leaders out at the Center that you recall, you especially enjoyed working with or learned from them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Roger [J.] Barnicki.\n\nHe was in the life support department. Jack Russell. His brother brought you down here.\n\nJack Russell, he was really good. There was a lot of aircraft that I worked on with people. They did most of the work, but they would have somebody in charge of it on the airplane, and they all were good. Actually, even the inspectors were good, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you find to be the most challenging part of your job? Especially when you were encountering a new aircraft. What was the hardest part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The C-47. I had to go riding with it, and I didn’t really care too much about that. But everybody was really primed up and really working on these projects. Of course, on the X-15 and even on the 104s and the 100s. They were checking the 104s. There was one 104 we worked on that they were trying to make it shoot off a rocket on the bottom. It had a thing, and they’d go back and turn it over, and then they’d shoot off a rocket. It didn’t last very long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have some things that you want to ask?\n\nYou mentioned some of the pilots. Were there any pilots that you enjoyed working with the most?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7967216372530352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Roger [J.] Barnicki.\n\nHe was in the life support department. Jack Russell. His brother brought you down here.\n\nJack Russell, he was really good. There was a lot of aircraft that I worked on with people. They did most of the work, but they would have somebody in charge of it on the airplane, and they all were good. Actually, even the inspectors were good, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you find to be the most challenging part of your job? Especially when you were encountering a new aircraft. What was the hardest part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The C-47. I had to go riding with it, and I didn’t really care too much about that. But everybody was really primed up and really working on these projects. Of course, on the X-15 and even on the 104s and the 100s. They were checking the 104s. There was one 104 we worked on that they were trying to make it shoot off a rocket on the bottom. It had a thing, and they’d go back and turn it over, and then they’d shoot off a rocket. It didn’t last very long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have some things that you want to ask?\n\nYou mentioned some of the pilots. Were there any pilots that you enjoyed working with the most?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were all pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine they were an interesting group because what they did was so different and dangerous and then, of course, there were accidents with a lot of the pilots, and I know that affected the whole community at NACA, when things would happen."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8852462636144836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The C-47. I had to go riding with it, and I didn’t really care too much about that. But everybody was really primed up and really working on these projects. Of course, on the X-15 and even on the 104s and the 100s. They were checking the 104s. There was one 104 we worked on that they were trying to make it shoot off a rocket on the bottom. It had a thing, and they’d go back and turn it over, and then they’d shoot off a rocket. It didn’t last very long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have some things that you want to ask?\n\nYou mentioned some of the pilots. Were there any pilots that you enjoyed working with the most?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were all pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine they were an interesting group because what they did was so different and dangerous and then, of course, there were accidents with a lot of the pilots, and I know that affected the whole community at NACA, when things would happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. What did Mike [Michael J.] Adams crash in? Was that the X-15?\n\nYes, it was the X-15.\n\nI thought it was, yes.\n\nThey were all pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting personalities. [pause]\\n\\n I wanted to ask you about working with the other Centers, especially when Dryden was part of Ames. Did you go there often, or did you work with the folks from Ames?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:222", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9836069595716483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were all pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine they were an interesting group because what they did was so different and dangerous and then, of course, there were accidents with a lot of the pilots, and I know that affected the whole community at NACA, when things would happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. What did Mike [Michael J.] Adams crash in? Was that the X-15?\n\nYes, it was the X-15.\n\nI thought it was, yes.\n\nThey were all pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting personalities. [pause]\\n\\n I wanted to ask you about working with the other Centers, especially when Dryden was part of Ames. Did you go there often, or did you work with the folks from Ames?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "People came down. They had a regular up and down, every day. It was a shuttle plane, but it was some people. It wasn’t Ames or NASA. They just shuttled it back and forth every day. I went up a couple times. One time, we went through Ames, looked at all the centrifuges and all of that stuff. I didn’t really get up there too often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a different Center, isn’t it? More compact."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:224", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2143295797180842, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. What did Mike [Michael J.] Adams crash in? Was that the X-15?\n\nYes, it was the X-15.\n\nI thought it was, yes.\n\nThey were all pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting personalities. [pause]\\n\\n I wanted to ask you about working with the other Centers, especially when Dryden was part of Ames. Did you go there often, or did you work with the folks from Ames?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "People came down. They had a regular up and down, every day. It was a shuttle plane, but it was some people. It wasn’t Ames or NASA. They just shuttled it back and forth every day. I went up a couple times. One time, we went through Ames, looked at all the centrifuges and all of that stuff. I didn’t really get up there too often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a different Center, isn’t it? More compact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had talked a few minutes ago about such a family atmosphere, so you had friends that were on the Base, and then those were also your friends here. You were in different activities. I think you mentioned that you were in a bowling league? Did that help build the friendships between the people for when they’re on Base as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3492550885756491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People came down. They had a regular up and down, every day. It was a shuttle plane, but it was some people. It wasn’t Ames or NASA. They just shuttled it back and forth every day. I went up a couple times. One time, we went through Ames, looked at all the centrifuges and all of that stuff. I didn’t really get up there too often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a different Center, isn’t it? More compact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had talked a few minutes ago about such a family atmosphere, so you had friends that were on the Base, and then those were also your friends here. You were in different activities. I think you mentioned that you were in a bowling league? Did that help build the friendships between the people for when they’re on Base as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so.\n\nI think so, yes. We had a lot of fun. Just about the whole Center bowled, I think. It seemed there were a lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bet the bowling alley was happy."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8508300254810002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had talked a few minutes ago about such a family atmosphere, so you had friends that were on the Base, and then those were also your friends here. You were in different activities. I think you mentioned that you were in a bowling league? Did that help build the friendships between the people for when they’re on Base as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so.\n\nI think so, yes. We had a lot of fun. Just about the whole Center bowled, I think. It seemed there were a lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bet the bowling alley was happy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn’t a lot to do around here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the years, Nellie, there were ups and downs with the Center. Did you feel that, at some point, the Center might be closed or changed in ways?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5388614890000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so.\n\nI think so, yes. We had a lot of fun. Just about the whole Center bowled, I think. It seemed there were a lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bet the bowling alley was happy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn’t a lot to do around here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the years, Nellie, there were ups and downs with the Center. Did you feel that, at some point, the Center might be closed or changed in ways?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At budget time, yes.\n\nThey said something about it, but it never got closed.\n\nThey even talk about the Base at times. I know that’s always a possibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be a change for the community. They’ve got to have the Base there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:236", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.1343969000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn’t a lot to do around here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the years, Nellie, there were ups and downs with the Center. Did you feel that, at some point, the Center might be closed or changed in ways?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At budget time, yes.\n\nThey said something about it, but it never got closed.\n\nThey even talk about the Base at times. I know that’s always a possibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be a change for the community. They’ve got to have the Base there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my goodness. It really would, yes.\n\nWe stuck it through, didn’t we?\n\nYes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your town’s changed over the years, too, hasn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:238", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.40049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At budget time, yes.\n\nThey said something about it, but it never got closed.\n\nThey even talk about the Base at times. I know that’s always a possibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be a change for the community. They’ve got to have the Base there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my goodness. It really would, yes.\n\nWe stuck it through, didn’t we?\n\nYes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your town’s changed over the years, too, hasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh. It’s getting big.\n\nI grew up on the other side, on the east side of Lancaster, and I used to ride my bike up one of the main streets. Now, it’s Division Street, and I used to ride my bike to the Saturday matinee, and I got stuck every time with my bicycle because it was just a sandy, dirt road. We’ve seen a lot of changes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, is there anything else that you wanted to share with us about your time out at the Center?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:242", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my goodness. It really would, yes.\n\nWe stuck it through, didn’t we?\n\nYes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your town’s changed over the years, too, hasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh. It’s getting big.\n\nI grew up on the other side, on the east side of Lancaster, and I used to ride my bike up one of the main streets. Now, it’s Division Street, and I used to ride my bike to the Saturday matinee, and I got stuck every time with my bicycle because it was just a sandy, dirt road. We’ve seen a lot of changes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, is there anything else that you wanted to share with us about your time out at the Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you think, dear?\n\nYou’re the career man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure he had his hands in the middle of all of those."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:246", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh. It’s getting big.\n\nI grew up on the other side, on the east side of Lancaster, and I used to ride my bike up one of the main streets. Now, it’s Division Street, and I used to ride my bike to the Saturday matinee, and I got stuck every time with my bicycle because it was just a sandy, dirt road. We’ve seen a lot of changes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, is there anything else that you wanted to share with us about your time out at the Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you think, dear?\n\nYou’re the career man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure he had his hands in the middle of all of those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I retired, and I really didn’t want to, but I retired. I had a problem with my heart. Not really the heart. It was the arteries going in the heart. I didn’t think I wanted to keep working.\n\nThey were good, though. They had a doctor at the Base after—not when we started there, of course, but later on during the Shuttle. They kept tabs on him. They’d check his blood pressure and tell him when to go get a real Pepsi if it was a little low or something. The doctor told him one day, “Go drink a Pepsi. Not a diet.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Get a little boost."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:252", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I retired, and I really didn’t want to, but I retired. I had a problem with my heart. Not really the heart. It was the arteries going in the heart. I didn’t think I wanted to keep working.\n\nThey were good, though. They had a doctor at the Base after—not when we started there, of course, but later on during the Shuttle. They kept tabs on him. They’d check his blood pressure and tell him when to go get a real Pepsi if it was a little low or something. The doctor told him one day, “Go drink a Pepsi. Not a diet.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Get a little boost."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nAfter I retired, they had a reunion [NACA].\n\nOh, the reunion, yes. We worked on the 50-year [Center] reunion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How fun!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, we were in charge of room reservations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you. We appreciate your time today, and for sharing information from a very different perspective, so it’s nice to hear.\n\nYes, we appreciate it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00956:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nAfter I retired, they had a reunion [NACA].\n\nOh, the reunion, yes. We worked on the 50-year [Center] reunion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How fun!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, we were in charge of room reservations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you. We appreciate your time today, and for sharing information from a very different perspective, so it’s nice to hear.\n\nYes, we appreciate it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hope you can use something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s very useful for all aspects of it. Thank you so much."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.75429278386938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think I was just assigned. My understanding was the cooperative program wanted lawyers. It was agricultural cooperatives, but they were pressed because lawyers were doctors, so to speak. And, you know, it was a pretty poor fit because lawyers are not necessarily good people in agricultural projects. But they ended up, the program ended up with nine people who had graduated law school, which gave me a number of people I had a whole lot in common with. The group of bankers, 31 members, who began training in the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nine out of 31 were lawyers. That's that's quite a few. So let's just go back to some of the motivation. What did your family think about all of this, about your joining the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that point, I was a. My parents were no longer alive. I live with my aunt and uncle. My uncle thought it was a crazy idea, try to talk me into it. And I think he even had me talk to lawyers in the small town of Illinois that I grew up in, and they were probably primed to talk me out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Time to earn a living, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they suggest that there was employment options."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your peers, what did they think about all of this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.171436426521534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that point, I was a. My parents were no longer alive. I live with my aunt and uncle. My uncle thought it was a crazy idea, try to talk me into it. And I think he even had me talk to lawyers in the small town of Illinois that I grew up in, and they were probably primed to talk me out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Time to earn a living, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they suggest that there was employment options."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your peers, what did they think about all of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if the ones you mean, the ones who were in law school with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Law school or friends from high school or others?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 26.857151585023928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they suggest that there was employment options."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your peers, what did they think about all of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if the ones you mean, the ones who were in law school with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Law school or friends from high school or others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a real mixture of people who were my peers. Those were in law school somewhere and already were in officer programs, JAG programs, and a number of them were figuring out the teaching would be a good way. I'm not exactly sure. I think if you were married and had children, that was a basis for deferment. I don't believe that just marriage was sufficient. But a lot of people were trying to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, marriage was sufficient in 1964 when I got married. I didn't get married because of the draft, but it was sufficient then. I don't know what it was in 1968."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.063501761137697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if the ones you mean, the ones who were in law school with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Law school or friends from high school or others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a real mixture of people who were my peers. Those were in law school somewhere and already were in officer programs, JAG programs, and a number of them were figuring out the teaching would be a good way. I'm not exactly sure. I think if you were married and had children, that was a basis for deferment. I don't believe that just marriage was sufficient. But a lot of people were trying to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, marriage was sufficient in 1964 when I got married. I didn't get married because of the draft, but it was sufficient then. I don't know what it was in 1968."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the summer of 1967. Yeah, I don't recall that well. The key was to get to 26 years of age and then you would not get drafted. Some are already in the military I think. In ‘64, ‘65, I think people more less aware whether there were 20 or 30,000 troops there at that point. But by 1967, the summer, there were, I don't think there was much illusions as to some of the downsides of our engagement in Vietnam and the justifications in the opposition to it. So at that point, there is a pretty savvy group of people, especially those who I knew in law school in Champaign, Illinois."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went to University of Illinois in Champaign. Is that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.515001956819663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a real mixture of people who were my peers. Those were in law school somewhere and already were in officer programs, JAG programs, and a number of them were figuring out the teaching would be a good way. I'm not exactly sure. I think if you were married and had children, that was a basis for deferment. I don't believe that just marriage was sufficient. But a lot of people were trying to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, marriage was sufficient in 1964 when I got married. I didn't get married because of the draft, but it was sufficient then. I don't know what it was in 1968."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the summer of 1967. Yeah, I don't recall that well. The key was to get to 26 years of age and then you would not get drafted. Some are already in the military I think. In ‘64, ‘65, I think people more less aware whether there were 20 or 30,000 troops there at that point. But by 1967, the summer, there were, I don't think there was much illusions as to some of the downsides of our engagement in Vietnam and the justifications in the opposition to it. So at that point, there is a pretty savvy group of people, especially those who I knew in law school in Champaign, Illinois."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went to University of Illinois in Champaign. Is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And law school as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.238891063132957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the summer of 1967. Yeah, I don't recall that well. The key was to get to 26 years of age and then you would not get drafted. Some are already in the military I think. In ‘64, ‘65, I think people more less aware whether there were 20 or 30,000 troops there at that point. But by 1967, the summer, there were, I don't think there was much illusions as to some of the downsides of our engagement in Vietnam and the justifications in the opposition to it. So at that point, there is a pretty savvy group of people, especially those who I knew in law school in Champaign, Illinois."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went to University of Illinois in Champaign. Is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And law school as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As well, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you applied for the Peace Corps. How long did it take for you to be accepted? Do you know, do you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 30.265434514592176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And law school as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As well, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you applied for the Peace Corps. How long did it take for you to be accepted? Do you know, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn't actually matter. That's not an important question. You don't have to research it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 31.40603834954686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As well, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you applied for the Peace Corps. How long did it take for you to be accepted? Do you know, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn't actually matter. That's not an important question. You don't have to research it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well actually, I applied, I believe, in the summer of 1967, and I think I was received the letter, the offer, in probably in August or September. But they said they weren't exactly sure when I report. I think I was immediately notified that the position would be in the co- op program in Brazil in the northeast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when did you actually show up for training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 30.451153721718732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn't actually matter. That's not an important question. You don't have to research it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well actually, I applied, I believe, in the summer of 1967, and I think I was received the letter, the offer, in probably in August or September. But they said they weren't exactly sure when I report. I think I was immediately notified that the position would be in the co- op program in Brazil in the northeast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when did you actually show up for training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I got the letter on July 6th, 1967, from Jack Vaughn. And it gave him great pleasure to invite me to train in the program named below. And that was Brazil. With the assignment to organize and develop cooperatives, it would be a 27 month program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got the letter in July and the training started soon thereafter."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 31.612393024131926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well actually, I applied, I believe, in the summer of 1967, and I think I was received the letter, the offer, in probably in August or September. But they said they weren't exactly sure when I report. I think I was immediately notified that the position would be in the co- op program in Brazil in the northeast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when did you actually show up for training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I got the letter on July 6th, 1967, from Jack Vaughn. And it gave him great pleasure to invite me to train in the program named below. And that was Brazil. With the assignment to organize and develop cooperatives, it would be a 27 month program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got the letter in July and the training started soon thereafter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, actually, the training didn't start until October. So I think I started in the late, late October of 1967."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 32.90265891570214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I got the letter on July 6th, 1967, from Jack Vaughn. And it gave him great pleasure to invite me to train in the program named below. And that was Brazil. With the assignment to organize and develop cooperatives, it would be a 27 month program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got the letter in July and the training started soon thereafter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, actually, the training didn't start until October. So I think I started in the late, late October of 1967."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the University of Wisconsin in Milwaukee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a little bit about what training was like."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 32.719331994693995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the University of Wisconsin in Milwaukee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a little bit about what training was like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, well, we were at a hotel in downtown Milwaukee and the Shrader, Schroeder, Shrader, I think the name of it was it. And so we all stayed at the hotel and the training began. There was 40 of us, and of which 33 were in the cooperative program. And there was two who were in urban planning. Uh, I think they had at least one who had graduated from architecture school, who grew up within blocks of your house, Evelyn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And went to Wilson High School. And then there was, I think, there were eight women of the 40 and there were a couple secretaries and there were three or four in education and in health programs I think. So that was the group of 40. We had, as you can imagine, we had tremendous differences in terms of our language skills. Some of the people were fluent Spanish and Portuguese and Spanish are pretty similar. Probably more than either languages with Italian. So that for them, especially those who were fluent Spanish, it was just a matter of trying to stop Spanish words from coming out and using the Portuguese words that were often very similar. So they probably spoke Portuguese better on the second day than many of us did three months later. And then there were some that had just strong language skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you one of those?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.074427670620324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, which of course, we all froze there. But we were involved. The staff and the volunteers were very liberal group. And of course, in addition to the Vietnam War, there were some civil rights activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a community service component of your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was very little. I don't think there we really, really got that much. We learned a lot about Brazil and about the Northeast, and it's such a vast country with such an extensive difference between the north and the south."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So overall, do you think that training prepared you for the job you were going to be doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the language, I think. I think the language instruction was very strong and, you know, it depends a lot on the level of the students. What I haven't got around to yet is talking about. There was eight weeks in Milwaukee. And then there's six weeks in Brazil. So obviously there was more hands-on training when we got to Brazil. I could talk a little bit, when I finish talking about Milwaukee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, please do. I'm sorry."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.749364078467025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was very little. I don't think there we really, really got that much. We learned a lot about Brazil and about the Northeast, and it's such a vast country with such an extensive difference between the north and the south."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So overall, do you think that training prepared you for the job you were going to be doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the language, I think. I think the language instruction was very strong and, you know, it depends a lot on the level of the students. What I haven't got around to yet is talking about. There was eight weeks in Milwaukee. And then there's six weeks in Brazil. So obviously there was more hands-on training when we got to Brazil. I could talk a little bit, when I finish talking about Milwaukee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, please do. I'm sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was some people got cut during that training. Of the lawyers, one of us got cut. No one knew why people got cut, there was speculation. I suppose, that the security check may be a reason why some of them did. I remember one of the secretaries got cut and she'd never been on a plane before except to Milwaukee. And people were speculating that maybe they thought she wouldn't be able to adapt to life in Brazil. Anyway, there were some of us that got cut, some of us quit of the group of 40. We weren't, the co- operative group wasn't separated from the secretaries, from the health or from the urban planning group at all. As far as I know, they may have got some specialized training, but I doubt it was very much. So the 40 of us were together for 10, 12 hours a day, whatever it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, that yeah, so that's the most Milwaukee part of it. Talk a little bit about the in-country training you got."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.388182309407807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the language, I think. I think the language instruction was very strong and, you know, it depends a lot on the level of the students. What I haven't got around to yet is talking about. There was eight weeks in Milwaukee. And then there's six weeks in Brazil. So obviously there was more hands-on training when we got to Brazil. I could talk a little bit, when I finish talking about Milwaukee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, please do. I'm sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was some people got cut during that training. Of the lawyers, one of us got cut. No one knew why people got cut, there was speculation. I suppose, that the security check may be a reason why some of them did. I remember one of the secretaries got cut and she'd never been on a plane before except to Milwaukee. And people were speculating that maybe they thought she wouldn't be able to adapt to life in Brazil. Anyway, there were some of us that got cut, some of us quit of the group of 40. We weren't, the co- operative group wasn't separated from the secretaries, from the health or from the urban planning group at all. As far as I know, they may have got some specialized training, but I doubt it was very much. So the 40 of us were together for 10, 12 hours a day, whatever it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, that yeah, so that's the most Milwaukee part of it. Talk a little bit about the in-country training you got."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we flew down there and we were put in, um, one of the places we went was a small town, a couple, an hour and a half by bus from Recife. Recife is the capital at the time. Recife was about a million people, and I believe it was the third largest city in Brazil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Recife was the capital of the northeast?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.637907562034794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there are the cooperative programs, which is called Fecompipe. It’s the, uh. It's F-E-C-O-M-P-I-P-E."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "F-E-N-"}, {"role": "user", "content": "F-E-C-O-M-P-I-P-E. Better, I guess a better way to phrase it would be the Federation of Mixed Cooperatives in the State of Pernambuco. There were, I think, 10 to 15 sites in the state of Pernambuco and the state was, I don't know, maybe 200 miles long and 40 miles wide, something like that. But we were in different sites around the state and everything revolved around Recife, the headquarters was there, training was there. We had meetings there. And we were been put in different cities. I was put in Vicencia, V-I-C- E-N-C-I-A, a town of 3,000 people. In a county of 23,000 people, I guess. So that was, if you could call it a county.\n\nI'm not sure why I was put there. Some of the people were put in towns of 20 to 50 thousand. And in some of those towns there were volunteers already, they're not in the cooperative program, but in health programs, education. There were already volunteers there. And I think I was the first American that ended up there. And it was really just one main street, a couple of restaurants, if you want to use that, the term. And some sites had two volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were the only one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only one and in terms of being able to cope with it, because my Portuguese are so bad, I immediately found this kid, 17 years old, and I said, teach me Portuguese. You know, I got money to pay you 20 cents an hour or what it was, to help teach me Portuguese. But it was, you know, it was not a very interesting place and it was hard to find people to communicate with at any level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, where did you live? How did you find a place to live?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 23.220723679060075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The head of the program, a gentleman named John Burns, who had been in Brazil awhile, he was a priest at the time. He drove me to the town where I had my footlocker of over 100 books. We all got these foot lockers and my clothing and stuff, my suitcase."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said he was head of the program. He was head of the co-op program or Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was head of Peace Corps in Pernambuco. There was another guy named Chuck Bosley who was head of the Peace Corps in the Northeast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, John?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "John had the Pernambuco program, which is the co-ops and some of the small health programs and teaching programs and stuff. I don't know how many people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he's the one who got you the place to live?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.245248532288972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was head of Peace Corps in Pernambuco. There was another guy named Chuck Bosley who was head of the Peace Corps in the Northeast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, John?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "John had the Pernambuco program, which is the co-ops and some of the small health programs and teaching programs and stuff. I don't know how many people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he's the one who got you the place to live?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so he's the one. You know, I don't know, someone probably went there, said where can someone live. So the answer was there was one or two restaurants. It was in the back of the restaurant. So in the back of the restaurant was a room, maybe seven feet by three feet, four feet, something like that, had room for a bed. It was 30 cents a night. I think it was six feet by 10 feet, I wrote down. So six feet by 10 feet, and I ate there. And I think dinner was 75 cents a night. So that's where I stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a toilet? How did you wash?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.052472804659967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had each other. And they had my friend. And I think some went much further out and they had horses and there's some with rural, not lawyers, but there was this other group that had, some with more agricultural backgrounds. Not really a lot. But, you know, they had government that got involved in that to some extent. I think that was a real flaw. I think if we're going to be there, I think we ought to learn something about their culture. I think we should be involved in some of the planning stuff, planting, doing that stuff. And in fact, those who stayed for the second year and at the end, I think only 11 of the 31 made it for two years. The others. I ended up at another legal aid program. Some went home, some went on other programs, etc. But the 11 or so who stayed, they got involved in agricultural projects, and they had a much more meaningful experience. And they did a terrific job of setting things up for the next group. And the group that replaced us really was in a much better situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they were involved in agriculture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and because they could. One of the group that came after us, which was and I'll talk a little bit about them, and try to talk one of them into who lives in Arlington is a good friend who maybe you’ll end up talking to. But they, you know, they had the benefit, sometimes they try to have overlap and they had a much more meaningful experience and they learned a lot more and they really hit the ground running, so to speak. They also get together all the time and have programs and stuff now, 50 years later. And so that's sort of the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you end up leaving? You said you left after eight months, is that it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. From the first month or two, I mean, I just understood that, you know, I wasn’t going to make it two years. I understood that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And because of the loneliness?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.35625742962994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I ate at the same place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, wait, you left town though?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I stayed in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Vicencia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vicencia. Yeah, I stayed in the town, but I had a house in the town now, which was three blocks away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh I thought you had moved to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.618063810699933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I stayed in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Vicencia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vicencia. Yeah, I stayed in the town, but I had a house in the town now, which was three blocks away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh I thought you had moved to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm not. I haven't met. I'm down there. And three months later, like in March. I got there in February. Peace Corps training ended in February, and I got there in February and then it took six weeks to two months to get a home. And that was nice. You know, I had a hammock. I don't think I had a bed. Everybody had hammocks. Most people had beds, I sort of liked the hammock, I think. And so I had the hammock, but no bed. But, you know, I had a dresser and, you know, desk or something. Anyway, it was it was much more comfortable. And that was that place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you moved to Fortaleza?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.797848678555482, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vicencia. Yeah, I stayed in the town, but I had a house in the town now, which was three blocks away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh I thought you had moved to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm not. I haven't met. I'm down there. And three months later, like in March. I got there in February. Peace Corps training ended in February, and I got there in February and then it took six weeks to two months to get a home. And that was nice. You know, I had a hammock. I don't think I had a bed. Everybody had hammocks. Most people had beds, I sort of liked the hammock, I think. And so I had the hammock, but no bed. But, you know, I had a dresser and, you know, desk or something. Anyway, it was it was much more comfortable. And that was that place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you moved to Fortaleza?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I went to the program there, which is a legal aid program. And prior to going there, I spent a couple of weeks with, maybe it was just 10 days, I don't know, to Sao Paolo where I saw the program down there and I saw what the volunteers were doing. Many of whom were good friends from Peace Corps training, and remain so.\n\nSo then I came to that legal aid program and the state headquarters in the office was there. The shower was there. So I had a shower and I had a key and I lived in a little, like, one of the volunteers, the secretary was leaving. I took over her house and I guess most of her furniture, whatever it was, and that was in a real poor community about 20 minutes away. And I would take the bus into the center of the city, and there I was involved in the legal aid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the legal aid program? Whom did it help with what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 25.676356393278372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I went to the program there, which is a legal aid program. And prior to going there, I spent a couple of weeks with, maybe it was just 10 days, I don't know, to Sao Paolo where I saw the program down there and I saw what the volunteers were doing. Many of whom were good friends from Peace Corps training, and remain so.\n\nSo then I came to that legal aid program and the state headquarters in the office was there. The shower was there. So I had a shower and I had a key and I lived in a little, like, one of the volunteers, the secretary was leaving. I took over her house and I guess most of her furniture, whatever it was, and that was in a real poor community about 20 minutes away. And I would take the bus into the center of the city, and there I was involved in the legal aid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the legal aid program? Whom did it help with what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You want the Portuguese name of it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s probably somewhere here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you can give that to me afterwards."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.69784544014383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was much better, it was what I expected. The projects didn't go very far. I don't know why the ones that that try to develop. I was involved in developing with the people so that it was a completely different program to the volunteers. There was just a few in the capital. The rest of them were spread all over the state and the state was much bigger, whereas we were all sort of pushed together in Pernambuco. So that made a different kind of dynamic because I was an outsider and I didn't have that. But, you know, I got the volunteers and with my friends from my first site, in Pernambuco, when they came through and a lot of others came through, my second hammock got a lot of use and stuff. So it was just a, it was just a lot more fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you felt you were contributing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, the legal aid was sort of contributing and it was interesting and I was learning stuff and it was a much more interesting place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how long did you do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I lasted to the end and then I was hopeful that I would train my replacements or there would be replacements. Apparently they had trouble finding other lawyers to go there. And there was talk when I left that I would be part of a training program in the Virgin Islands to train lawyers to, uh, for legal aid programs in Sao Paolo or other programs in Brazil. And I got a phone call three or four weeks later saying, you know, we're not going to do that. As far as I know, that never happened. So the legal aid program died in the state of Ceara, in the city of Fortaleza, at that time. I don't know what happened to the one in Sao Paolo. One of the lawyers in that program who I knew a little bit ended up as a federal judge here in P.G. County. He's been involved in some of the major immigration cases and stuff there, I see his name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finished your two years. You mentioned you dated?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.4420504890487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, the legal aid was sort of contributing and it was interesting and I was learning stuff and it was a much more interesting place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how long did you do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I lasted to the end and then I was hopeful that I would train my replacements or there would be replacements. Apparently they had trouble finding other lawyers to go there. And there was talk when I left that I would be part of a training program in the Virgin Islands to train lawyers to, uh, for legal aid programs in Sao Paolo or other programs in Brazil. And I got a phone call three or four weeks later saying, you know, we're not going to do that. As far as I know, that never happened. So the legal aid program died in the state of Ceara, in the city of Fortaleza, at that time. I don't know what happened to the one in Sao Paolo. One of the lawyers in that program who I knew a little bit ended up as a federal judge here in P.G. County. He's been involved in some of the major immigration cases and stuff there, I see his name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finished your two years. You mentioned you dated?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. In in the north. I dated in the north when I went to Ceara. I dated a one woman, and I realized it wasn't working out for any reason. And I introduced her to another volunteer and they ended up dating and getting married and she still lives here in this area. And some other volunteers, there was one in our group. There was a lot of social life. And there are a lot of the volunteers ended up marrying Brazilians, and especially the group that followed us in Pernambuco, a lot of them ended up with Brazilian wives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the men married women, not the other way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 29.380056098943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I lasted to the end and then I was hopeful that I would train my replacements or there would be replacements. Apparently they had trouble finding other lawyers to go there. And there was talk when I left that I would be part of a training program in the Virgin Islands to train lawyers to, uh, for legal aid programs in Sao Paolo or other programs in Brazil. And I got a phone call three or four weeks later saying, you know, we're not going to do that. As far as I know, that never happened. So the legal aid program died in the state of Ceara, in the city of Fortaleza, at that time. I don't know what happened to the one in Sao Paolo. One of the lawyers in that program who I knew a little bit ended up as a federal judge here in P.G. County. He's been involved in some of the major immigration cases and stuff there, I see his name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finished your two years. You mentioned you dated?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. In in the north. I dated in the north when I went to Ceara. I dated a one woman, and I realized it wasn't working out for any reason. And I introduced her to another volunteer and they ended up dating and getting married and she still lives here in this area. And some other volunteers, there was one in our group. There was a lot of social life. And there are a lot of the volunteers ended up marrying Brazilians, and especially the group that followed us in Pernambuco, a lot of them ended up with Brazilian wives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the men married women, not the other way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There were some women who married Brazilian men, but it was less common. And some of them ended up going back to Brazil, some of them ended up teaching at colleges there, and some of them end up divorced, the men and women, and some of them didn't, you know. But there was certainly a lot of, maybe 10 or 15 percent ended up that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel a lot while you were in Brazil?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.403823000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Reentry was hard. I mean, there was a lot of culture shock, and in return, all the people seem tall and all the people seem white, very white. I came back and I eventually ended up in a legal aid program in Chicago. And I came back to the small town in Illinois and then I moved to Chicago, which. You know Chicago at all?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where are you from?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "New York."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. Anyway, so I ended up a legal aid program in Chicago. One of the people in our group was already in that program and that helped me get the job. And he was a close friend in Brazil and remain so and remains in Chicago. And I ended up at a legal aid program there in a neighborhood office. And for a couple of years on the south side of Chicago in Inglewood, which is Michelle Obama's home neighborhood. And then there became an opening to run an office in the Mexican area of Chicago called Pilsen, and so I applied for that job, to be the head of the office, and it had four or five lawyers and a staff of four or five. And I had, I think I mentioned I took Spanish lessons down there and I sort of kept up the Spanish. I used it in Argentina and Uruguay and more lessons, and I kept up Portuguese, but a lot more people spoke Spanish. Anyway, that helped me get the head of that office, my Spanish, and I kept on lessons and stuff. And I think my Spanish was maybe a three level, maybe 80 percent of the Portuguese. And of course, neither is any good now, and I have no idea what's going to come out of my mouth was Portuguese or Spanish. But, you know, I used Spanish there. And I stayed in the legal aid program. So that and then I ended up getting a position in the federal government here when Jimmy Carter became president and then I ended up in private practice in Alexandria after I left the federal government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the impact of Peace Corps on your life as you think about it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.22647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where are you from?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "New York."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. Anyway, so I ended up a legal aid program in Chicago. One of the people in our group was already in that program and that helped me get the job. And he was a close friend in Brazil and remain so and remains in Chicago. And I ended up at a legal aid program there in a neighborhood office. And for a couple of years on the south side of Chicago in Inglewood, which is Michelle Obama's home neighborhood. And then there became an opening to run an office in the Mexican area of Chicago called Pilsen, and so I applied for that job, to be the head of the office, and it had four or five lawyers and a staff of four or five. And I had, I think I mentioned I took Spanish lessons down there and I sort of kept up the Spanish. I used it in Argentina and Uruguay and more lessons, and I kept up Portuguese, but a lot more people spoke Spanish. Anyway, that helped me get the head of that office, my Spanish, and I kept on lessons and stuff. And I think my Spanish was maybe a three level, maybe 80 percent of the Portuguese. And of course, neither is any good now, and I have no idea what's going to come out of my mouth was Portuguese or Spanish. But, you know, I used Spanish there. And I stayed in the legal aid program. So that and then I ended up getting a position in the federal government here when Jimmy Carter became president and then I ended up in private practice in Alexandria after I left the federal government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the impact of Peace Corps on your life as you think about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was extraordinary. It was the two most interesting years of my life, to a great extent, it charted the rest of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go ahead, continue."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They changed attitudes towards the United States, especially during the Vietnam War."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There's a lot, we talked a lot about the Vietnam War, and especially in a place like northeastern Brazil, where the money, which I didn't say, but the cooperatives, most of the money was from the United States. And the building for the cooperative, state cooperative, was AFL-CIO money. And the money came from the co-op league of the United States. And supposedly there was a lot of CIA money that was put into that group. But we had to learn about that on our own. That wasn’t something that we or anybody talked about those two years. But that's how I spent those two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. So anything else you want to mention that we haven't talked about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, are there any questions that you all have?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it's been a really interesting interview. Important perspective. I'm glad we had a chance to do that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There's a lot, we talked a lot about the Vietnam War, and especially in a place like northeastern Brazil, where the money, which I didn't say, but the cooperatives, most of the money was from the United States. And the building for the cooperative, state cooperative, was AFL-CIO money. And the money came from the co-op league of the United States. And supposedly there was a lot of CIA money that was put into that group. But we had to learn about that on our own. That wasn’t something that we or anybody talked about those two years. But that's how I spent those two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. So anything else you want to mention that we haven't talked about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, are there any questions that you all have?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it's been a really interesting interview. Important perspective. I'm glad we had a chance to do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was nice meeting you and maybe we'll talk about Somalia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's a different interview."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00047:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, are there any questions that you all have?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it's been a really interesting interview. Important perspective. I'm glad we had a chance to do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was nice meeting you and maybe we'll talk about Somalia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's a different interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be a different interview, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, thank you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00592:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 45.56697455536803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started that when I was out of Aircraft Ops [Operations], as a matter of fact, and I ended up—I got my degree in 1980. My wife and I graduated the same night, different places. She got her nursing degree at College of the Mainland [Texas City, Texas] and I got my master’s at UHCL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What interested you in going back to school at that time and getting this degree? Was it for career advancement, or was it through a program with NASA and UHCL?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. The fact is that getting degrees, getting advanced degrees, with NASA, it doesn’t do much for your career enhancement. I don’t know of anybody who went back and got advanced degrees, except, now, for people who have no degree at all and go back and get a degree, I think that it provides them with opportunities. But if you have a degree and you go get a master’s or a Ph.D. I don’t think it makes any difference at all.\\n\\n It was kind of personal interest. One of the things that they don’t do in engineering school is teach you about business type stuff and teach you about money and finance and that, and it was kind of interesting. I thought it would be fun to do. Matter of fact, I had a couple of friends that were doing it, also, and we were going part-time. The more I got into it, the more I liked it. It was a different way of thinking. I had an engineering degree, and the business degree is a lot different.\\n\\n Has it helped me in a career? Maybe remotely. Whenever you’re applying for a job, you can say, “Well, I’ve got an MBA [Masters of Business Administration] as well.”\\n\\n They’ll say, “Well, at least when we’re doing budgets and things like this, this person understands what we’re doing.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, STS-1 in 1981, were you still with the Flight Techniques group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that first flight and your memories of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00592:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 49.51886061707558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. The fact is that getting degrees, getting advanced degrees, with NASA, it doesn’t do much for your career enhancement. I don’t know of anybody who went back and got advanced degrees, except, now, for people who have no degree at all and go back and get a degree, I think that it provides them with opportunities. But if you have a degree and you go get a master’s or a Ph.D. I don’t think it makes any difference at all.\\n\\n It was kind of personal interest. One of the things that they don’t do in engineering school is teach you about business type stuff and teach you about money and finance and that, and it was kind of interesting. I thought it would be fun to do. Matter of fact, I had a couple of friends that were doing it, also, and we were going part-time. The more I got into it, the more I liked it. It was a different way of thinking. I had an engineering degree, and the business degree is a lot different.\\n\\n Has it helped me in a career? Maybe remotely. Whenever you’re applying for a job, you can say, “Well, I’ve got an MBA [Masters of Business Administration] as well.”\\n\\n They’ll say, “Well, at least when we’re doing budgets and things like this, this person understands what we’re doing.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, STS-1 in 1981, were you still with the Flight Techniques group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that first flight and your memories of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s nothing remarkable about STS-1. I don’t remember anything specific about it. I was not on console. I had been in Flight Techniques. I remember it; there was nothing that made it stand out in my mind one way or the other, that was close or an accident or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any sense of relief that the ideas that you’d been working on, that everything worked?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00592:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 55.02095624119509, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that first flight and your memories of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s nothing remarkable about STS-1. I don’t remember anything specific about it. I was not on console. I had been in Flight Techniques. I remember it; there was nothing that made it stand out in my mind one way or the other, that was close or an accident or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any sense of relief that the ideas that you’d been working on, that everything worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There is a—and maybe it’s just me—it seems like we felt like, there was an attitude, that we had worked so hard and been so thorough that unless there was some type of a design issue that we were unaware of, that things were going to work. We had a lot of margin. If you’re teaching your kid how to drive, you feel a lot better if you’re in a ten-lane-wide highway, because you know they’re not going to get off in the ditch. They’ve got a lot of margin for error. You don’t do that on a little country road that you’ve got to be very careful on.\\n\\n That’s the way we did things; we made sure there was a lot of margin. A lot of that stuff had to do with entry, with turning on jets, with things like that, and with fuel management, and consumables management in general, how you would do that. We’d run simulations, and you’d flown that thing so many times in simulations and tested it so many times that, in my mind, there was never a question that it wasn’t going to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You moved in [19]’81. You were assigned to the Guidance and Propulsion Systems Branch in Flight Control. Do you want to talk about that position?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00592:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 37, "return_to_go": 75.4658415912709, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He went by him. He went by him, or looked over his shoulder, brushed him or something like that, and the Russian ended up blaming it on him, saying that if he hadn’t come by and bumped him, it would have been okay. But generally that doesn’t happen on a—a brush doesn’t—this is a long-term situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in the investigation after the fire on Mir?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At one point you mentioned that some of the investigations that you were involved with was to get you training for the Mishap Investigation Team. At what point did you become a part of the Mishap Investigation Team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can we stop and let me take a break here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure. Not a problem.\\n\\n [pause]\n\nOkay. When we stopped, we were going to talk about your involvement in the Mishap Investigation Team and how that started."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00592:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 46.356461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was the personalities of the guy, the other person, and myself. Matter of fact, he and I, we still talk. He’s been heavily involved in Katrina and all this stuff, and other things, since then. He lives up in Denton, Texas. We periodically chat. We just—we hit it off. If there had been two A-type personalities there, two people who didn’t want to cooperate, if each of us had said we’re in charge, no matter what, there would have been a big fight. But right off the bat, he and I just—maybe it’s because we’re both bald. We just hit it off. We would talk, and we would negotiate, come up with solutions. I realized where his expertise was, and he realized where mine was, and it just worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the Chairman for the Space Shuttle Systems Safety Review Panel. Was that after\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n ?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that came with my job. When I moved into SR&QA in [19]’89, a part of that was being that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, is there anything else about\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n and that time period or in that position that we haven’t talked about that you’d like to mention? One other thing, in my notes I’m seeing the Space Shuttle Probability Risk Assessment [PRA] Project. Do you have any specific memories about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to share them with us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00461:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 42.71828043793539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not personally. There were JSC S&MA folks there though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised by those test results?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When they fired foam at the wing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember it was on the seventh test that they broke it, and I wondered, “What if we had quit at six?” This would have come down as a big unknown, and “We still don’t know what happened.” But on that seventh one, they were able to put a big hole in the RCC [reinforced carbon carbon] leading edge, and that became the smoking gun, and we could now say, “Okay, here’s what we’ve got. We’ve got a high-speed big chunk of foam that has enough energy in it to damage this RCC, catastrophically damage it, and here are the pictures.”\\n\\n Everybody was just amazed, because everybody has their own experience of driving down the highway and somebody’s got some kind of a 7-11 beer cooler in the back, and a piece of it flies off. It might be six inches by ten inches long, maybe an inch and a half thick, very lightweight white Styrofoam, and once it gets up into the air, it immediately stops its own relative motion with respect to the highway and therefore becomes very high speed when it hits my car because I’m going sixty [miles per hour]. It has immediately gotten to zero, so I hit that thing at sixty miles an hour and you don’t even hear it, it’s so light. It hits you right in the windshield and it scares you a little bit, but when you think about that, you wonder, well, how could that thing bring down a Space Shuttle, something like that? But it did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know from some of the other interviews we did, people were very surprised when that happened. Nobody expected that.\\n\\n Did you feel any time pressure during that period to return to flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00461:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 34.91153808008245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The Space Flight Awareness Program was a big part of our process. The idea was to go out of your way to let the workforce be a part of it, bring their families in, giving tours to family members that we really hadn’t done before. Once they started doing this near the end here, they said, “Why haven’t we always been doing this?”\\n\\n And we got legislation at [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, DC] to allow NASA HR [Human Resources] people to help place contractors who were coming off the job, help them find other jobs outside of NASA. Normally, we’re not supposed to do that (without special legislation). The contractors do that; we don’t. We facilitate civil service placement maybe, but not the contractors. So we needed legislative relief to do that, and we got it. There was a lot of that kind of “bending over backwards” going on. Again, and it blew the minds of these ASAP people. They’d never seen that stuff. I thought that whole thing was done very well, and it was consistent with the human space flight culture that we like to think we’ve always had, and that is that people really are aware of the stakes involved when you’re talking about human space flight and try not to become distracted, and really keep their eye on the ball."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going back to [STS-]114, they did have some dings and things, and as you were talking about the flights since then, they had the protruding gap fillers that they actually went out on an EVA [Extravehicular Activity] and pulled out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then it was another year before we flew again because of some of the issues that they needed to go back and look at."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any concerns in your area that there were going to be more problems with those following flights, or did you feel like it was being addressed the way it needed to be?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00461:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 34.49003462509813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know back when I was flying there was a lot more friction between the mental health guys and the management, the life science management, about sharing records. There was a lot more tension in there that I was aware of, not really part of it, but just aware of when I was here in Houston. This second review, I didn’t see as much of that. It seemed to be they had figured out how best to share data and how to keep it private without causing a lot of concern or angst in the management. My guess is over the period of time of human space flight, this has been one of those areas that’s fluctuated up and down. What’s too much sharing and what’s not enough? I did sense that there was some improvement there when I looked at it, from what I remembered back in the eighties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a sensitive subject, the issues of privacy and how much people are willing to share about their privacy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine it would be very tough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Also, they have the family involved. This isn’t just the medical or the mental health professional and the astronaut; astronaut families, too, are part of this. They treat it as a family system, and if an astronaut’s family is having problems that could translate to performance of the astronaut. A lot of that is pretty private stuff that is not appropriate to be shared with all these managers, who may or may not even have mental or even medical backgrounds, and yet it could be relevant to the flight surgeon who’s preparing a crew to go fly and needs to be aware that someone’s under a lot of stress because of a family medical problem or a family mental health problem. This isn’t really straightforward stuff, and it’s tough, but I think they do a very good job today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it is very interesting how they handle that and especially for long-duration flight and preparing the astronauts and their families for that period when they’re basically out of pocket. They can talk to them every day if they need to, but it’s a different situation."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00461:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 32.76670513899793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine it would be very tough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Also, they have the family involved. This isn’t just the medical or the mental health professional and the astronaut; astronaut families, too, are part of this. They treat it as a family system, and if an astronaut’s family is having problems that could translate to performance of the astronaut. A lot of that is pretty private stuff that is not appropriate to be shared with all these managers, who may or may not even have mental or even medical backgrounds, and yet it could be relevant to the flight surgeon who’s preparing a crew to go fly and needs to be aware that someone’s under a lot of stress because of a family medical problem or a family mental health problem. This isn’t really straightforward stuff, and it’s tough, but I think they do a very good job today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it is very interesting how they handle that and especially for long-duration flight and preparing the astronauts and their families for that period when they’re basically out of pocket. They can talk to them every day if they need to, but it’s a different situation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, this was a big deal, not the mental health part, but the big deal about the family health on STS-134 when Mark [E.] Kelly was trying to decide whether he should go fly his mission with his wife, Gabby [Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords], in rehab from the Arizona shooting, and still relatively early in the rehab, he’s going to be going off training eighty hours a week and trying to care for her. That must have been a tremendous stress on that family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine it was."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00461:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 39.21815449259003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, this was a big deal, not the mental health part, but the big deal about the family health on STS-134 when Mark [E.] Kelly was trying to decide whether he should go fly his mission with his wife, Gabby [Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords], in rehab from the Arizona shooting, and still relatively early in the rehab, he’s going to be going off training eighty hours a week and trying to care for her. That must have been a tremendous stress on that family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know all the details and certainly would never second-guess his decision, but I wouldn’t have been surprised if he’d have said, “I’m just going to back out of this flight. I’ve had a good career, and I’ve got to put my wife on front burner here.” But then his own situation was such that she was in the care that she needed without him particularly and that he was comfortable with that, and that he was still able to get home at night and all these other things. He had to put all that together and figure out what to do, but it was one of those situations where I’m sure the flight surgeons were concerned about him because of a family situation, not his own particular health, but just the effect it could have on him and his performance and his morale."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it’s quite a balancing act."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The changes in NASA that are happening now with the commercial operations and industry partners for astronaut transport, you had a statement before the Senate Subcommittee on Space and Science in March 2010, and you talked about some of those challenges of providing crew safety and requirements and standards that would apply to these commercial or industry partners. Since that was over a year ago, do you want to talk about some of those concerns that you had and if there are any plans or any standards in place?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00461:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.64945170293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More commercial?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, more commercial."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, probably. I just hope people realize that there’s a difference between buying a commercial product or service and developing one, because that second thing there really put us on the spot. Basically, I don’t really think that’s our job. Now, you can argue that it is, and people are doing that.\\n\\n It’s a philosophical discussion that’s going on about NASA and why we’re here and what we should be doing, and I’ve always thought that we ought to do NASA-unique missions. That’s what we’re here for, and we’re challenged by the Space Act to do it in ways that have benefit to commerce. I worry that if we change that around and we become an agency that develops commercial stuff, that there’s only so much that we can do, and if that’s what we’re going to do, then maybe we don’t have enough money to do our unique missions. And if we’re not doing unique missions, anybody can pass money from the [U.S.] Treasury to some commercial guy who wants to do something commercial, doesn’t have to be NASA, and we may find ourselves being questioned as to why we’re even here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There are those unique missions still going on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re still having unmanned launches."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00461:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 27.962286053000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re still having unmanned launches."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Thank goodness for the science side. Now, you could say that aeronautics does a lot of commercial stuff, and they do, but it’s R&D. They’re doing research and development things that have benefits to government and commerce, and they’re doing it for those purposes. They don’t have missions, as such, in Aeronautics. They don’t go out and do missions, but human space flight has always been about missions, unique missions, and so it’s a different track we’ve been on. I worry that if we get out of that and get into the business of NASA doing nothing but R&D that has potential to be used by commercial folks for commercial space activities, that we’re going to suffer in the budget wars even more than we do already, if that’s possible. I might be wrong on that, but I just wonder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we did our interview for the NASA at 50 project, we talked a lot about your position and what you’ve done since 2002 and the challenges to your position and the outlook for your position in the future. You made the decision that you’re going to be retiring at the end of the month."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you see for the Safety and Mission Assurance area that you’re in charge of now and whoever’s going to follow on after you? What do you see for that future, and what advice would you give to the next person in your position?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00461:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.3, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’m going to take leave. That’s what I tell people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. That’s good. I think you deserve it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m old. I’m sixty-five. [laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your entire career with NASA, what would you consider the most challenging aspect of your career or the most challenging time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00461:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn’t be able to think of anything now. I’d have to go back and reread everything. I think we’ve captured a lot of stuff. I appreciate your interest and the way you’ve set the table on it. Sometimes I come into these interviews and I think that I don’t know if I can just, from scratch, be useful to you, but what you have done is you’ve picked out some questions that get me thinking, and doing your homework has helped me do a better job for you, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I appreciate that. We do try to do that before we do interviews. Oral history is different, and we try to approach it that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I really respect how you folks do that, and the fact that you’re doing it, period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s going to be useful, too, and I hope people read these things some day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We do too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00461:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I really respect how you folks do that, and the fact that you’re doing it, period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s going to be useful, too, and I hope people read these things some day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We do too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe not mine, but some of the good ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I appreciate it, and I appreciate all this time that you have given to this program and this project."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.59317315028325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I don't really think that it impacted my work. It was just independence from GSA. And I don't know if that resulted in, I guess maybe it gave us more clout or whatever. We were this independent agency. We weren't part of GSA, which people always kind of thought is like the agency that cleaned up the buildings. So instead of saying that we work for GSA, now we can say the National Archives, and it sounded more impressive. But impacting the work for me? No. Maybe for funding, but I wasn't really involved in budgeting and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did when we got a new Archivist? Did that ever have any impacts on your work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We didn't see the Archivists all that much. We did have inspections where people from the agency came, and they would review operations and make suggestions for improvement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you involved at all or do you know anything about the discussions to make the military personnel files permanent records?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was on the archival side of the agency, so I wasn't involved in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you spent your career at the civilian personnel building, correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.48539895096697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was on the archival side of the agency, so I wasn't involved in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you spent your career at the civilian personnel building, correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. About two years. Accession and disposal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then putting records into the system called NARS-5. I don't know if that still exists or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I don't think so. It is familiar though. The NARS-5. I've definitely seen that. Yeah. So can you talk about any interesting discoveries you've made during your work or any really your favorite aspects of your work?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.42822105662997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. About two years. Accession and disposal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then putting records into the system called NARS-5. I don't know if that still exists or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I don't think so. It is familiar though. The NARS-5. I've definitely seen that. Yeah. So can you talk about any interesting discoveries you've made during your work or any really your favorite aspects of your work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess it was always changing because as technology developed, we were always improving our systems. And I thought that was interesting. For me on the management staff, I mean, I did so many different things. I mean, I was an EEO counselor. On one project, I set up all the logical screens for a website to accept military records requests. I didn't do the HTML, and I thought that was interesting. I kind of liked, I guess, the aspects that related to automation because that just seemed to be figuring out a problem or having a problem and then figuring out how there could be an automated solution to it. I even worked on, they called it—I don't know what they call it in Washington – the Combined Federal Campaign. And I set up a program where you could track all the donations and people got different incentives. It kind of did everything, and I offered that to the people that were in charge of the Combined Federal Campaign here in St. Louis. I don't know if they ever adopted it, but it worked great at the records center. There were just many, many aspects to what I did. We, I mean, we evaluated suggestions, updated procedures and policy, worked with contractors, did training, did troubleshooting. One day was never the same as the other. There was no, \"here's a pile of work. Complete this and we'll give you another pile of work.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So do you think that your work has changed the way that you view records or the importance of records?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.27211121578871, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. Yeah. You know, every year one friend and I would use some of our annual leave and we'd find somewhere to go – vacation destinations. Yeah, we'd go places after work or on weekends, too. Yeah. It's a good group of people. And like I said last night, how many of us were there? I don't know, a dozen. There's probably about 20 people in all. They call it, well, the men started it when some of the men retired before the women did. They called it \"Boys Night Out.\" So now they call it \"Boys and Girls Night Out.\" And so once a month we meet at a particular location and have something to eat, something to drink, and share what's been going on in our lives. And yeah, it's like you said, it was a positive culture that existed at the records center especially. I have to attribute that to the former director, David Petree. I think he was a good guy and that just sort of trickled down. Yeah, it was a good group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Yeah. The genesis for this oral history project really came from Charlie. It was his idea and he really got it started. So I have to give him a big thank you for pushing us to do this project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, Charlie was my boss for a while too. Yeah, he's a good one. Crazy, crazy, funny guy. But. Yeah. And David Petree. Yeah, he was my supervisor, too. And Deborah Hilton. I don't know if you talked to Deborah or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but we're still looking for people. So if you have contact information for Deborah or we haven't talked to David Petree."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I would love it if I could get, if you have their contact information, and we can do this offline, but that would be great because we're trying to talk to as many people as possible and get as many perspectives as possible."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.191234684209677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, Charlie was my boss for a while too. Yeah, he's a good one. Crazy, crazy, funny guy. But. Yeah. And David Petree. Yeah, he was my supervisor, too. And Deborah Hilton. I don't know if you talked to Deborah or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but we're still looking for people. So if you have contact information for Deborah or we haven't talked to David Petree."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I would love it if I could get, if you have their contact information, and we can do this offline, but that would be great because we're trying to talk to as many people as possible and get as many perspectives as possible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think Deborah, she certainly would, and I'm sure Mr. Petree would. I still call him Mr. Petree. He says call me David. And it's like I can't. I'm sorry. You are my boss. [laughter] Yeah, maybe, I could send a note to Charlie. Or if you want to since he's kind of the point man here and just ask him if he wants to reach out to Deborah and to David Petree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that'd be, that'd be great."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.101371871344085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I would love it if I could get, if you have their contact information, and we can do this offline, but that would be great because we're trying to talk to as many people as possible and get as many perspectives as possible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think Deborah, she certainly would, and I'm sure Mr. Petree would. I still call him Mr. Petree. He says call me David. And it's like I can't. I'm sorry. You are my boss. [laughter] Yeah, maybe, I could send a note to Charlie. Or if you want to since he's kind of the point man here and just ask him if he wants to reach out to Deborah and to David Petree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that'd be, that'd be great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you talk to Marcia Haley?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I haven't. No. Give me all these good names."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.168986238902734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I'm going to actually see that person tonight who worked in the files with the mask on and everything, and they had to wear gloves and, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, we have some pictures of how they do it now with gloves. But back then, too, because the records were so, I mean, I hate to say gross, but it seemed like you did not want to touch them or breathe them in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. Well, you know, when I was doing the verification for the SGO, when I would find an existing record and run the codes to see if they matched, a lot of times they were partially burned and I'd have them on my desk and be looking for the hospital admission card. And, it would be charred and well, they were like mold spores. So, you'd have to kind of brush off your desk afterwards because there was all this residual stuff. But now I think most of those are controlled by the archives side. And I think that they were trying to do more preservation. In the days when I worked there, we would get the records and try our best to keep the parts together. But, you have little crusty pieces that would fall off and burnt edges that would fall off sometimes. And, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was like you ate a piece of toast at your desk and you had to shovel off all the crumbs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. There was charred chunks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they still have a smell to them, even decades later?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.74331804322526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. Well, you know, when I was doing the verification for the SGO, when I would find an existing record and run the codes to see if they matched, a lot of times they were partially burned and I'd have them on my desk and be looking for the hospital admission card. And, it would be charred and well, they were like mold spores. So, you'd have to kind of brush off your desk afterwards because there was all this residual stuff. But now I think most of those are controlled by the archives side. And I think that they were trying to do more preservation. In the days when I worked there, we would get the records and try our best to keep the parts together. But, you have little crusty pieces that would fall off and burnt edges that would fall off sometimes. And, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was like you ate a piece of toast at your desk and you had to shovel off all the crumbs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. There was charred chunks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they still have a smell to them, even decades later?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, yeah. I mean, all the burned records were stored in one area called the B-file. The burnt file. And yeah, when you would go in there. Yeah. It did have kind of a—I mean it wasn't like really pungent, but yeah, it did smell a little bit. Yeah. Records smell, any old records smell. But yeah, they did have a little bit of a burnt smell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Have you been to the new buildings?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.381464492472511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. There was charred chunks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they still have a smell to them, even decades later?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, yeah. I mean, all the burned records were stored in one area called the B-file. The burnt file. And yeah, when you would go in there. Yeah. It did have kind of a—I mean it wasn't like really pungent, but yeah, it did smell a little bit. Yeah. Records smell, any old records smell. But yeah, they did have a little bit of a burnt smell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Have you been to the new buildings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a couple of times for the open house and retirements. Yeah, but I don't know, It just had sort of a what would I say? A sterile feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How does it compare to where you worked?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.757182769413901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, yeah. I mean, all the burned records were stored in one area called the B-file. The burnt file. And yeah, when you would go in there. Yeah. It did have kind of a—I mean it wasn't like really pungent, but yeah, it did smell a little bit. Yeah. Records smell, any old records smell. But yeah, they did have a little bit of a burnt smell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Have you been to the new buildings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a couple of times for the open house and retirements. Yeah, but I don't know, It just had sort of a what would I say? A sterile feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How does it compare to where you worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As you know, at the record center on Page Avenue, it was a big place. And there were a lot of agencies, a lot of activity. And at the new building, I don't think, well, I guess there's a few other agencies out there, but it's like you don't really see anybody. And, it just seemed kind of a more, I don't know, controlled sterile environment. And maybe that's fine. You know, it wasn't what I was used to. And I've been down to the caves, went down there for the open house and just, I guess for maybe a retirement or two down there in Valmeyer, Illinois. Have you gone to Valmeyer?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I haven't been to Valmeyer. But I do want to go. We originally wanted to come to St. Louis and do these oral histories all in person and then just we didn't we ran out of time. But my goal is to get there and tour the caves. I'm really, really interested actually in civilian personnel records because they're very helpful for my job. I do a lot of staff highlights. And if all those records were available to me for everyone who worked at NARA, my life would be so much easier."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.174647521571001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a couple of times for the open house and retirements. Yeah, but I don't know, It just had sort of a what would I say? A sterile feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How does it compare to where you worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As you know, at the record center on Page Avenue, it was a big place. And there were a lot of agencies, a lot of activity. And at the new building, I don't think, well, I guess there's a few other agencies out there, but it's like you don't really see anybody. And, it just seemed kind of a more, I don't know, controlled sterile environment. And maybe that's fine. You know, it wasn't what I was used to. And I've been down to the caves, went down there for the open house and just, I guess for maybe a retirement or two down there in Valmeyer, Illinois. Have you gone to Valmeyer?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I haven't been to Valmeyer. But I do want to go. We originally wanted to come to St. Louis and do these oral histories all in person and then just we didn't we ran out of time. But my goal is to get there and tour the caves. I'm really, really interested actually in civilian personnel records because they're very helpful for my job. I do a lot of staff highlights. And if all those records were available to me for everyone who worked at NARA, my life would be so much easier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, right. Well, you know, for active employees, I mean, if that's what you're interested in, they'd put all those in the vault if they were in the military. Well, the civilian personnel file is kept in the personnel office or the human resources office. Um, yeah. I don't know how records are maintained now, though. I mean, if everything is done electronically. I mean, I was a paper record person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I try not to bother them too much, or at least the military folks because they're so busy with their backlog right now."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.615428699000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like backlogs were always there. I don't think that there was ever a time when people got caught up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So is there anything else that you would like to talk about? Any anecdotes? It could be fire related. It could be related to the National Archives in any way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um hm. Well, I was just curious. Are you in Washington right now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you in Maryland or where? Where are you located?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I live on Capitol Hill, so I'm in DC."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.12825411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um hm. Well, I was just curious. Are you in Washington right now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you in Maryland or where? Where are you located?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I live on Capitol Hill, so I'm in DC."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. But. Oh, do you work from home?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mainly, yeah. So I work from the main building. So downtown in DC, and that's my home base. And my office is there, but we have really been teleworking a lot lately, so I only go in if I need to look up records. We've been doing a lot of records management, sending records to RG 64, Records of the National Archives, so I'll go in for that kind of stuff. But otherwise, I've been doing a lot from home."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.4758379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you in Maryland or where? Where are you located?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I live on Capitol Hill, so I'm in DC."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. But. Oh, do you work from home?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mainly, yeah. So I work from the main building. So downtown in DC, and that's my home base. And my office is there, but we have really been teleworking a lot lately, so I only go in if I need to look up records. We've been doing a lot of records management, sending records to RG 64, Records of the National Archives, so I'll go in for that kind of stuff. But otherwise, I've been doing a lot from home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah. I can remember when Charlie Pellegrini was my boss and working from home became a thing. I asked if I could work from home? The answer was “No,” but, you know, that was, well, probably, I don't know, around 2000 or something. So now it's kind of normal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, COVID really changed things for the National Archives, which wasn't in the forefront of telework before, but now a lot of staff are 100% telework. The people who don't work with records or the public who can work from home."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.750931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. But. Oh, do you work from home?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mainly, yeah. So I work from the main building. So downtown in DC, and that's my home base. And my office is there, but we have really been teleworking a lot lately, so I only go in if I need to look up records. We've been doing a lot of records management, sending records to RG 64, Records of the National Archives, so I'll go in for that kind of stuff. But otherwise, I've been doing a lot from home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah. I can remember when Charlie Pellegrini was my boss and working from home became a thing. I asked if I could work from home? The answer was “No,” but, you know, that was, well, probably, I don't know, around 2000 or something. So now it's kind of normal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, COVID really changed things for the National Archives, which wasn't in the forefront of telework before, but now a lot of staff are 100% telework. The people who don't work with records or the public who can work from home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And now you have all these auxiliary locations for records like down in Mar-A-Lago and a garage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I should not laugh at that."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.05659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah. I can remember when Charlie Pellegrini was my boss and working from home became a thing. I asked if I could work from home? The answer was “No,” but, you know, that was, well, probably, I don't know, around 2000 or something. So now it's kind of normal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, COVID really changed things for the National Archives, which wasn't in the forefront of telework before, but now a lot of staff are 100% telework. The people who don't work with records or the public who can work from home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And now you have all these auxiliary locations for records like down in Mar-A-Lago and a garage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I should not laugh at that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that’s kind of concerning. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, it is. We've been in the news for the first time. I mean, we've never been in the news as much, I don't think. [laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And now you have all these auxiliary locations for records like down in Mar-A-Lago and a garage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I should not laugh at that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that’s kind of concerning. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, it is. We've been in the news for the first time. I mean, we've never been in the news as much, I don't think. [laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, not a good thing. [laughter] So the Archivist has new headaches. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my. Yeah. Well, let me think if there's anything else. I don't know. I guess, I did enjoy my career at NPRC. And, I think that sometimes people thought that the record center was not a good place to work. But, I didn't find it that way at all. I thought it was a good career. So keep up the image of the National Archives positive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is a positive place to work. And your work with the veterans was immensely important work. And I really appreciate you taking the time to speak with me today and especially also following up if we can have additional interviewees."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.5389999999999997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that’s kind of concerning. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, it is. We've been in the news for the first time. I mean, we've never been in the news as much, I don't think. [laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, not a good thing. [laughter] So the Archivist has new headaches. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my. Yeah. Well, let me think if there's anything else. I don't know. I guess, I did enjoy my career at NPRC. And, I think that sometimes people thought that the record center was not a good place to work. But, I didn't find it that way at all. I thought it was a good career. So keep up the image of the National Archives positive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is a positive place to work. And your work with the veterans was immensely important work. And I really appreciate you taking the time to speak with me today and especially also following up if we can have additional interviewees."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Thank you so much."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, not a good thing. [laughter] So the Archivist has new headaches. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my. Yeah. Well, let me think if there's anything else. I don't know. I guess, I did enjoy my career at NPRC. And, I think that sometimes people thought that the record center was not a good place to work. But, I didn't find it that way at all. I thought it was a good career. So keep up the image of the National Archives positive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is a positive place to work. And your work with the veterans was immensely important work. And I really appreciate you taking the time to speak with me today and especially also following up if we can have additional interviewees."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Thank you so much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was fun. Yeah. And, you know, kind of made me think back. I know I talked to Bill Seibert, I think you're going to talk with him. And he said, Diane, it's been so long. I got to see what I can remember. So anyway, yeah, but, I guess we'd like to remember the good things. And so those two projects, medical records registry with the military services and the SGO, I think those are my favorite projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm so impressed that you could remember things so clearly from 1985. I can barely remember last week. So you must have a great memory."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Thank you so much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was fun. Yeah. And, you know, kind of made me think back. I know I talked to Bill Seibert, I think you're going to talk with him. And he said, Diane, it's been so long. I got to see what I can remember. So anyway, yeah, but, I guess we'd like to remember the good things. And so those two projects, medical records registry with the military services and the SGO, I think those are my favorite projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm so impressed that you could remember things so clearly from 1985. I can barely remember last week. So you must have a great memory."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess like you said, the things that you liked, you remember. If there were things that I didn't really like about work, I'd probably forgotten them. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And I guess your project was so giant and cumbersome that it's going to stick with you for the rest of your life."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was fun. Yeah. And, you know, kind of made me think back. I know I talked to Bill Seibert, I think you're going to talk with him. And he said, Diane, it's been so long. I got to see what I can remember. So anyway, yeah, but, I guess we'd like to remember the good things. And so those two projects, medical records registry with the military services and the SGO, I think those are my favorite projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm so impressed that you could remember things so clearly from 1985. I can barely remember last week. So you must have a great memory."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess like you said, the things that you liked, you remember. If there were things that I didn't really like about work, I'd probably forgotten them. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And I guess your project was so giant and cumbersome that it's going to stick with you for the rest of your life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, these weren't just week-long projects, they were years. But that's how it works in government. You got the funding, you got lots of people involved and a lot of coordination. And that's just what it takes. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well great, thanks for talking to me. I'll let you go, and then I will follow up, like I said, with email, with the transcript. I appreciate you talking to me. And we'll talk more via email."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00005:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess like you said, the things that you liked, you remember. If there were things that I didn't really like about work, I'd probably forgotten them. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And I guess your project was so giant and cumbersome that it's going to stick with you for the rest of your life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, these weren't just week-long projects, they were years. But that's how it works in government. You got the funding, you got lots of people involved and a lot of coordination. And that's just what it takes. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well great, thanks for talking to me. I'll let you go, and then I will follow up, like I said, with email, with the transcript. I appreciate you talking to me. And we'll talk more via email."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, it was nice to chat with you, Jessie, and enjoy your career with the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. Take care."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00774:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 111.96251439282715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My current responsibilities are co-chairman of Working Group 6, which is the Mir Operations and Integration Working Group. That's an additional duty I just picked up. It had been Rick Nygren up until the last month or so. My job before that was within Working Group 6, I was the Operations and Training IPT [Integrated Product Team] leader."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we visited yesterday or day before on the phone, you suggested we come visit with you so we could kind of map out how all the Ops teams worked. So we're going to let you take it from here and proceed however you want."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know how much you know about Phase 1 from a in the Working Group stand point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don't you just take us back. Pretend we don't know anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever had to do this before [give an overview], lecture people who are curious about this [process]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00774:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 124.40279376980794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know how much you know about Phase 1 from a in the Working Group stand point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don't you just take us back. Pretend we don't know anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever had to do this before [give an overview], lecture people who are curious about this [process]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that captured on anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00774:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 48, "return_to_go": 128.2253264108977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever had to do this before [give an overview], lecture people who are curious about this [process]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that captured on anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not recently. Usually what's happened is because we've had a lot of people from CB [Astronaut Office - Johnson Space Center], from the office, transfer in and out, and because sometimes we've had to interface with them a lot and be the continuity across the increments, I'd had to go through this several times with several crew members.\\n\\n The Phase 1 Program, under Frank Culbertson, the organization within that, within that he's got the different Working Groups. Let me see if I remember these. Working Group 1 is PAO [Public Affairs Office]. Working Group 2 is Safety; this is Gary Johnson. Do you have the names of all the Working Group chairs?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we do have that list, unless there's been some recent change."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00774:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 46.31694574575778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Per mission?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about how they overlap and some continue on and some are on every mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our operations staffing was around -I'm trying to remember if it was loaded or not. I think it was a little under thirty, so we had thirty people to do all this on the contractor's side. Then we had about two or three civil servants, myself. I kind of had a part-time deputy, but that didn't always work out. Under ten to do the training between Lockheed and Krug. So, overall, this whole thing was a little under fifty people.\\n\\n On any one increment, then, you would have -now, this would go that once the mission was launched, he would just jump to the next mission. So he didn't have a role during the mission execution phase. So do you want to look at while the mission is running or preparing for the mission?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's do one, then the other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Pre-mission, you'd have one, two, three, four. He'd have these guys assigned, but these guys were working double duty. So if you're just looking at heads, if you're trying to do a budget thing -"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to help us out so we don't have to come back and ask you again? When you say \"this\" and point -"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00774:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 51.46327305084198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our operations staffing was around -I'm trying to remember if it was loaded or not. I think it was a little under thirty, so we had thirty people to do all this on the contractor's side. Then we had about two or three civil servants, myself. I kind of had a part-time deputy, but that didn't always work out. Under ten to do the training between Lockheed and Krug. So, overall, this whole thing was a little under fifty people.\\n\\n On any one increment, then, you would have -now, this would go that once the mission was launched, he would just jump to the next mission. So he didn't have a role during the mission execution phase. So do you want to look at while the mission is running or preparing for the mission?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's do one, then the other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Pre-mission, you'd have one, two, three, four. He'd have these guys assigned, but these guys were working double duty. So if you're just looking at heads, if you're trying to do a budget thing -"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to help us out so we don't have to come back and ask you again? When you say \"this\" and point -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It won't get on the recorder."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00774:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 57.18141450093553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Pre-mission, you'd have one, two, three, four. He'd have these guys assigned, but these guys were working double duty. So if you're just looking at heads, if you're trying to do a budget thing -"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to help us out so we don't have to come back and ask you again? When you say \"this\" and point -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It won't get on the recorder."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. From the increment team you would have four. You probably have about three heads out of the discipline lead that you could support. Maybe one or two out of here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "\"Out of here\" which means?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00774:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 24, "return_to_go": 59.09046055659503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It won't get on the recorder."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. From the increment team you would have four. You probably have about three heads out of the discipline lead that you could support. Maybe one or two out of here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "\"Out of here\" which means?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The operations team supporting it. So I imagine around ten or eleven. From an operations perspective, let me go back and double check. Let me actually bump that more to fifteen, because you wouldn't have what they called -they also had the term \"payload systems engineers\" out of the integration supporting the hardware development. So, pre-mission, you'd have about fifteen people. Once the mission got started, that would drop to around ten, doing the actual day-to-day mission operations. Now, if something comes up, you could pull in more resources, someone who was working something downstream. You could free up and double bookkeep. So that made it very interesting, looking at monthly charges, what they're charging against, stuff like that, because sometimes it was splitting hairs. Three hours he had to do one thing, the rest of the day he was covering something else.\\n\\n My personal feeling is, some of the plans to do station, a little bit overkill, where you've got six or seven teams, plus one in training, accounting for other stuff, but this is the other extreme, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You proved it could be done with less people."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00779:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.28998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, especially when you come from lots of snow in Russia and you come back to the bright sun in Houston. Flying in that jet is more like a time machine than anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there something you learned about yourself through all these experiences, that you felt maybe you learned or maybe you grew since you were part of everything that was going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, probably not, only because having done a residency, that was probably one of the more intensive, difficult times, like working in emergency rooms in terms of stress and all that goes. So I wasn't put to the test any more than I had been previously. I probably became a little more hard-edged when it came to medical matters in the space program than I'd been before, more willing to pound the desk if needed, to argue certain points more vehemently, but that's about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least you got to test yourself in a new culture and a new climate and with new friends."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. I'd never learned a new language, never lived in another country for that period of time, but I just chalk that up as a lot of great experiences. I'm not sure that what I learned from that would ever change me at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Learned to enjoy it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00779:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.3222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, probably not, only because having done a residency, that was probably one of the more intensive, difficult times, like working in emergency rooms in terms of stress and all that goes. So I wasn't put to the test any more than I had been previously. I probably became a little more hard-edged when it came to medical matters in the space program than I'd been before, more willing to pound the desk if needed, to argue certain points more vehemently, but that's about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least you got to test yourself in a new culture and a new climate and with new friends."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. I'd never learned a new language, never lived in another country for that period of time, but I just chalk that up as a lot of great experiences. I'm not sure that what I learned from that would ever change me at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Learned to enjoy it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious how accessible were past medical data from previous long-duration flights that the Russians had, previous Mir flights before Phase One and the Salyut missions were. Did you pursue any of that material to help in some of your work, and, if so, how accessible was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00779:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The same with the batteries. When Priroda docked, the batteries heated up and leaked. Finally we found out it probably was leaking sulfur dioxide, but it was very difficult to get the information on what was in those batteries. Yes, that happened several times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We certainly appreciate your time sharing this information with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We look forward to hearing your next adventure. Are you going to be participating in the ISS?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm signed up for one flight, but that's about a year and a half down the road before that flight, maybe about a year. Right now I'm just trying to help out getting ready for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We wish you the best of luck. Thanks again."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00046:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 45, "return_to_go": 134.11607179214135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm Richard McCulley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what is your affiliation to the Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am the Historian at the Center for Legislative Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Before you came to the Archives, what sort of background did you have that led you to being here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in 1979, I became the research associate for an administrative history of the Johnson Presidency. That was a National Endowment for the Humanities funded project based at the LBJ School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas and directed by Emmette Redford. He was a professor at the LBJ School of Public Affairs, and had been the president of the American Political Science Association. And I had studied under Lou Gould, who was a preeminent historian of the Progressive Era, and still is, and I had planned to be a Progressive Era historian. But by the time I finished my dissertation in 1980, I was already hip deep in researching the Johnson Presidential Library records, and Emmette Redford became kind of my postdoc mentor. And ironically enough, 15 years prior to that, he was the person that when I enrolled as a freshman at the University of Texas, I had my first official conversation with. I enrolled at a government major. He was assigned as my advisor. It was really quite perfunctory, but somebody had to approve the course line up you chose before you could get registered, and Emmette Redford was the first person I talked to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was pretty much there your whole entire college career then."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00046:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 77.37497939059512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Joe Hernon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Joe Hernon was retired at that point, and he didn't, no, he didn't really work with this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Unfortunately, Joe got cancer and died of cancer in 2007. And before that, because of his partner's career needs, they moved to Massachusetts. Joe was a great guy and a wonderful historian. You could've heard a pin drop in the archivist conference room when he gave his talk. Then he'd quit. Then there was this silence. Somebody finally raise their hand and the question was, how do we get in your class? It was a spellbinding lecture. So you know, we had no way to showcase what was going on here. I worked with Sam a little later to highlight some of the important research that had been going on in the 1990s. I worked with Sam and Julian. We organized a symposium on a really very significant anthology that Julian edited, titled “The American Congress: The Building of American Democracy.” So this symposium was in 2004. About six of the authors who were part of that who wrote chapters in that book participated. It was a milestone, and kind of pulling together some of the best scholarship going on. A number of them had done research here at the Center, so this was really presenting congressional history I think and the first time is kind a coherent subfield of U.S. history, so I was a part of putting that together. And by then, we did benefit from the McGowan Auditorium. But most of the work that went into that had been done in the 90s, so that was kind of the first group of researchers who came here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Archives II opened in the mid-90s, did that change how the Center was working? Do any of the records go up there at all, or is everything still here just as it was when it—"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00046:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 94.25631, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had nothing to do with the fact that he was a Canadian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just he was a U.S. —"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[interposing] Actually, there were no restrictions at all of that sort in the announcement. You had to have been admitted to candidacy. It wasn't necessarily, it turns out, although there were historians, but you know, political scientists and communications specialists–all kinds of people applied for this fellowship, so anyone who had been admitted to candidacy or had received their PhD less than five years ago. So historians trying to work on their book manuscripts for tenure were included in this, so they wanted to use Senate or House holdings to kind of beef up their studies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the fellowship still going on now, or has funding—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[interposing] Well, you know, I thought the legislative fellowship really went about as well as it possibly could, given the fact that we had no experience whatsoever with awarding fellowships, but the Archivist apparently decided to provide research support to a broader range of scholars, so what was adopted the following year was awarding–they're not really fellowships. They're $2500–I call that a research grant to conduct research at one of the National Archives Regional Records Centers, so that obviously spreads the wealth a little more. There's always a political advantage in that. And also consistent I think with what he had in mind starting with us is that those tend to be neglected records more than a lot of the, you know, here in the Washington Records Center and at the Center for Legislative Archives, but it's not a fellowship."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You also had something called a Brown Bag Series."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00692:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 41.01981304251384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The guy I’m thinking of begins with a V."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s a Valin [B.] Thorn, but he wasn’t a venture capitalist. He was a part of the COTS team [Commercial Crew and Cargo Deputy Program Manager]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Valin Thorn, yes. He candled the business plans for us. He did a good job. They all did. They were enthusiastic about it, and the companies were enthusiastic. The briefs were fabulous. You can say sometimes, “My slide deck is always going to look better than your actual rocket,” but the bottom line is these folks had put a lot of effort into it. It was just great to see that we were able to pull this off and help some companies what we’re now seeing, which is viable transportation systems for cargo at least, and I don’t think crew’s going to be that far behind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After RpK’s termination, were there any lessons learned from that that you applied to the next round to be able to help companies develop their technologies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the program people would be better able to answer that. In terms of the legal framework, we had the legal framework. In terms of the practicalities of operating and how you select and how you set up the milestones and stuff, that’s more on the programmatic side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Space Act Agreements didn’t have a lot of changes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00692:30", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.396402616270002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never got the impression they were setting it up to fail. I got the impression that they saw that their role in it wouldn’t be what they wanted it to be, where NASA had quality review boards, and engineers checking engineers checking engineers checking engineers, and program managers controlling every nickel and dime and being in charge. “This is letting loose some of the stuff that only we at NASA can do!”\\n\\n There were and are, as you well know, huge skeptics. There’s a feeling that, “I’ll never sign off on putting an astronaut that I can’t honestly say has been done exactly the way it should have been done, and I can’t do that unless I’m watching them screw in every screw and bolt every bolt.” NASA’s fantastic, but have you been able to tour the facilities of any of these other companies?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We did visit SpaceX in Hawthorne."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you been down to their facility either out at Vandenberg or down at [NASA] Kennedy Space Center [Florida]?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, not yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You figure out, it comes as no surprise to me in my advanced age, that there are a lot of people out there with really, really good ideas, and you don’t have to do things that way because we’ve always done them that way. It really is innovation. There are only three sovereign nations that have managed to put a man in orbit, and one commercial company has managed to send a rocket ship up, orbit the earth, and recover it. That’s pretty phenomenal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made the comment that GAO doesn’t have jurisdiction because these were not contracts. Who does?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 52.78753292982001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s good to be here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad you liked it enough last time to come back for us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn’t know, maybe I talked you to your knees last time and you wouldn’t have me again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it was truly our pleasure.\\n\\n This time I was kind of going over some of the questions we’d done last time, and I wanted to ask you a little bit about, just to start out, the end of the Apollo Program and going into Skylab. Did you have any interaction for the last several Apollo flights where they had the command module pilot do EVAs [extravehicular activities] outside the spacecraft on the way back? I didn’t know if you had anything to do with the equipment for that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just barely. They used an umbilical cord for that, and we were working on the Skylab umbilical, so we used a version of that, sort of a simplified version. The Skylab umbilical had oxygen supply and water cooling lines, supply and return lines, and electrical and a tether. I think they just used the tether and the oxygen line. So that was really the only involvement with those EVAs that I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Skylab system you’re talking about, is that the astronaut life support assembly [ALSA]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 58.65281436646668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn’t know, maybe I talked you to your knees last time and you wouldn’t have me again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it was truly our pleasure.\\n\\n This time I was kind of going over some of the questions we’d done last time, and I wanted to ask you a little bit about, just to start out, the end of the Apollo Program and going into Skylab. Did you have any interaction for the last several Apollo flights where they had the command module pilot do EVAs [extravehicular activities] outside the spacecraft on the way back? I didn’t know if you had anything to do with the equipment for that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just barely. They used an umbilical cord for that, and we were working on the Skylab umbilical, so we used a version of that, sort of a simplified version. The Skylab umbilical had oxygen supply and water cooling lines, supply and return lines, and electrical and a tether. I think they just used the tether and the oxygen line. So that was really the only involvement with those EVAs that I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Skylab system you’re talking about, is that the astronaut life support assembly [ALSA]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I was pretty heavily involved in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you could run us through some of the development of that, coming up with the requirements and all that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 58.45574510968858, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. We used potassium chlorate. I think those are chlorate candles. They’ve come a long way. They use these in aircraft. Some aircraft emergency oxygen systems are a chlorate candle also. Well, this demo candle that we made was really dumb. Hindsight, we should have put it inside a canister and had some sort of a filtration bed in it, but we wanted to show people. Because when you get through with one of these things after it burns, you have an 800-degree piece of salt. You have sodium chloride left. So that system died.\\n\\n So we went with a real simple system we called a PCU, a Pressure Control Unit, that mounted on the astronaut’s belly and was fed by an umbilical from the Skylab system. We had cooling water that came in and out and oxygen supply and electrical power. Then we had a thirty-minute emergency pack on his leg. That was the system they used real successfully not only during the normal missions during Skylab, but also during Skylab emergency to do the EVAs which essentially resuscitated the station, the Skylab Space Station.\\n\\n Did I talk about the Skylab Source Board activities out at Ellington at our last time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. Not for Skylab."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I talked about the file cabinet that I couldn’t open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about the file cabinet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about the trains."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 64.95082789965397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I talked about the file cabinet that I couldn’t open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about the file cabinet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about the trains."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the train chart, okay. I just wanted to make sure I covered that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that for Skylab or for Space Shuttle?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 33.25965636501515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was buying extra suits, buying extra space suits. What we were doing was making a case for reality, which is something that’s hard to do. We had this case where supposedly we were only going to fit a limited number of crewman, twenty crewmen, the so-called cadre. We were going to have an EVA cadre of crewmen, twenty people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is Shuttle Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We can change two of them a year. Well, that was limiting the number of crewman. So they bought off on it. The trouble is, the twenty floated. It was twenty, but it was a different twenty. So that meant the number of suits we had weren’t necessarily able to fit all these different sizes. You had to buy a bunch of sized components.\\n\\n So finally we got them to admit, let’s go with a probabilistic thing. You’ve got this many people that are large and this many that are extra large and this many are medium and this many are small, let’s figure out a probability of these guys being stacked on missions back to back that we’d have to have so many of this certain size. So we came up a probabilistic determination and said we need this many more things, and, I mean, they actually bought it. So that was great. It was one of the high points of my career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s good that that one was successful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because there’s been a lot of others that weren’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you recall any of these that were, as you described them, brutal budget battles that you ended up losing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 40.99668823339969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Claustrophobic. Yes. It worked on Bob Thompson. [Laughs] Yes. That doesn’t shock me at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had Bob Thompson in here, but he didn’t mention this experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say his foot did cramp up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if we see him again, I’ll ask him about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. How did he like his time in the personal rescue sphere?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you’re developing this for Shuttle, there’s other things going on with the EMU [extravehicular mobility unit] that there’s a lot of problems before you get to the first flight, some of which you’ve alluded to. I was wondering if you could maybe illuminate some of your experience there trying to get this space suit ready for these first few flights, I mean, what some of the critical issues were. I think it was even subjected to a review by the Inspector General and these sorts of things because of ballooning costs and all that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 35.91760191809651, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. I are one. Yes, it’s never believe the first story. I have bunch of those little aphorisms I’ve come up with over the years. Somebody’s had your problem before, you just have to find them. I found that out in the nature of car repair, working on your car. You’ve got a problem with your car, come in to work and talk about it with a bunch of guys that work on cars. Somebody will have had your problem. You just need to find him. I think the same things holds true.\\n\\n I don’t think there are any new problems; they just look different. All problems look different when they’re coming at you. When they pass you by and you can look at the back of them like the Wizard of Oz, you can see the guy back there pulling the bells and whistles and all that. There are, I think, only a very few number of real different problems—they look different—because you’re dealing with laws of physics and people. So you’re dealing a limited set to start with.\\n\\n Now, there’s a lot of variations on those things, but basic problems are the same, they just look a lot different, and again, if you recognize the pattern.\\n\\n Works in personal life too, limited number of things there, too. People don’t like to have you, your spouses or SOs [significant others], they don’t like to have you necessarily use work techniques of analysis on domestic problems and all that, especially with kids or whatever. They don’t sit too well for that. It’s much more fun to get all emotional, whereas at work that usually doesn’t work. But some of those same techniques can work at home. It’s harder to use them, though. You have to be clever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, probably a little more indirect."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Especially with kids, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you told your kids that’s what you were doing then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, and I won’t even now. My kids, the youngest is twenty-seven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they’re not quite old enough to know the truth there, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.717541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve got a bunch of them written down. It’s funny, you’ve heard of Lewis and Clark?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The satellites?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, was it Lewis or Clark? One of them got launched, got up in orbit, lasted a little while, and augured in. They did a big study of what happened to it, and it was a real comedy of errors. So I looked over that, and I made a few comments on their program, I mean, after they’d figured out what happened to it. You could see the seeds of doom being sown in that program real early. They changed it around. They changed launch vehicles. They moved it from one group to another. They separated people that should have been working together, just a whole bunch things, took people off of monitoring it during its phases to save money and then when things started happening, the guy wasn’t there. I mean, just amazing the number of things.\\n\\n So I made a few comments to that, and it turned into kind of lessons learned, overall lessons. So I kind of used that as a trigger and then launched into everything I’ve learned about hardware and people and all that. So I got to put some stuff together. If you’re aware of what’s going on around you at all, pretty soon you can’t help but develop some of these things. So I have a little pitch that I have put together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s about all the questions I had had for this time, but I did want to see if Carol and Sandra had any, if you don’t mind."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.019490000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The satellites?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, was it Lewis or Clark? One of them got launched, got up in orbit, lasted a little while, and augured in. They did a big study of what happened to it, and it was a real comedy of errors. So I looked over that, and I made a few comments on their program, I mean, after they’d figured out what happened to it. You could see the seeds of doom being sown in that program real early. They changed it around. They changed launch vehicles. They moved it from one group to another. They separated people that should have been working together, just a whole bunch things, took people off of monitoring it during its phases to save money and then when things started happening, the guy wasn’t there. I mean, just amazing the number of things.\\n\\n So I made a few comments to that, and it turned into kind of lessons learned, overall lessons. So I kind of used that as a trigger and then launched into everything I’ve learned about hardware and people and all that. So I got to put some stuff together. If you’re aware of what’s going on around you at all, pretty soon you can’t help but develop some of these things. So I have a little pitch that I have put together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s about all the questions I had had for this time, but I did want to see if Carol and Sandra had any, if you don’t mind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No? Sandra?\\n\\n Okay. Well, it looks like we’re all about out of them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 14.4661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, was it Lewis or Clark? One of them got launched, got up in orbit, lasted a little while, and augured in. They did a big study of what happened to it, and it was a real comedy of errors. So I looked over that, and I made a few comments on their program, I mean, after they’d figured out what happened to it. You could see the seeds of doom being sown in that program real early. They changed it around. They changed launch vehicles. They moved it from one group to another. They separated people that should have been working together, just a whole bunch things, took people off of monitoring it during its phases to save money and then when things started happening, the guy wasn’t there. I mean, just amazing the number of things.\\n\\n So I made a few comments to that, and it turned into kind of lessons learned, overall lessons. So I kind of used that as a trigger and then launched into everything I’ve learned about hardware and people and all that. So I got to put some stuff together. If you’re aware of what’s going on around you at all, pretty soon you can’t help but develop some of these things. So I have a little pitch that I have put together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s about all the questions I had had for this time, but I did want to see if Carol and Sandra had any, if you don’t mind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No? Sandra?\\n\\n Okay. Well, it looks like we’re all about out of them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, I enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Were there any other comments you wanted to make before we called it quits?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, that just reminded me, speaking of Gemini, that reminded me of one question I had had from last time which was involving Gemini X and the environmental control system where the guys complained of their eyes burning, but they couldn’t really figure out what the problem was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember ever knowing what that was. I tell you, have you have had Larry [E.] Bell?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He would have been the one to know, if anybody knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, his thought was that John Young had used his suit hose as a vacuum cleaner to suck up some Tang he had spilled."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember ever knowing what that was. I tell you, have you have had Larry [E.] Bell?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He would have been the one to know, if anybody knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, his thought was that John Young had used his suit hose as a vacuum cleaner to suck up some Tang he had spilled."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wondered about the Tang. I was going to mention that, but I didn’t know whether they’d ever proved that or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I don’t know if they did. I think John Young would deny that story."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He would have been the one to know, if anybody knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, his thought was that John Young had used his suit hose as a vacuum cleaner to suck up some Tang he had spilled."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wondered about the Tang. I was going to mention that, but I didn’t know whether they’d ever proved that or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I don’t know if they did. I think John Young would deny that story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you had him yet?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we haven’t, but we sure try."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wondered about the Tang. I was going to mention that, but I didn’t know whether they’d ever proved that or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I don’t know if they did. I think John Young would deny that story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you had him yet?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we haven’t, but we sure try."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I’d get him. Yes. Yes. It’s been a great ride, I’ll tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it certainly seems like your ride was a lot of fun."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you had him yet?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we haven’t, but we sure try."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I’d get him. Yes. Yes. It’s been a great ride, I’ll tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it certainly seems like your ride was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. I guess you tend to remember those things, and you remember the characters. The characters. I guess maybe there are characters like them now, but I don’t see them. I don’t see the characters like we had in the early days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The wild men."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00417:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I’d get him. Yes. Yes. It’s been a great ride, I’ll tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it certainly seems like your ride was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. I guess you tend to remember those things, and you remember the characters. The characters. I guess maybe there are characters like them now, but I don’t see them. I don’t see the characters like we had in the early days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The wild men."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The wild men, yes. No more wild men. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Well, thanks."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00213:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.1426938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After three years of being in the country, I actually did, in that last year, I happened to be able to go. And I went with the youth volunteer for my original training group before she closed out her service. We went to Argentina, Chile, a little piece of Brazil and Bolivia. So it took about three weeks and got to see some of South America, experience some of South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long? So for three weeks, you did a little vacation in Brazil you're saying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Brazil, Argentina, Chile and Bolivia. And then we also, a bunch of us also went. I had some friends come in from the States. We went out to the Galapagos, the archipelago that is off the coast of Ecuador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, since you stayed there longer than your two-year assignment, I'm assuming you did feel a sense of achievement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. I think when you physically have a structure that you're building from the ground up and you're part of that, that is a huge sense of achievement to see the walls and the moms and their kids come in and use it as a functioning center. And that opened probably, I probably stayed only eight months after. I mean, it was like fully established and really comfortable in their new space and hiring new people and being a part of that. So yeah, I absolutely felt that contributions were made on my part. But I mean, as Peace Corps you learn so much from the people there too. But I had something to offer and I was able to do that. And I know, you know, leaving that behind also helped a lot of kids thrive and grow and not die, because we did have some kids who just didn't make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've only told us about some of the pluses and minuses and the problems you had in Ecuador and the wonderful things you were able to do in Ecuador. What was it really like to work with the people and do you have any regrets?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.26836453666793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I served in the Republic of Moldova in a city named Balti. I started my service in June 2014 and ended my service July 2016."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so I just wanted to ask you sort of in a chronological order about your service and we'll just start way before you started serving. Was there anything growing up that made you want to join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know about the organization until 2010, 2011, right before I graduated, thinking about what to do with as a career and as like things to branch off of before I started my career and I majored in economics and minored in international relations. So Peace Corps, the Foreign Service, government work or something I was really interested in at the time. And it all made sense to look into these like international organizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How did you find out about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Found out about it through, I think someone in the university or just Googling for like international volunteer service, Peace Corps, the British Volunteering Service, the European Volunteer Service, all came up and I obviously qualified for the Peace Corps after I gained my citizenship. So I wanted to call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the application process like when you applied?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.96484948518659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know about the organization until 2010, 2011, right before I graduated, thinking about what to do with as a career and as like things to branch off of before I started my career and I majored in economics and minored in international relations. So Peace Corps, the Foreign Service, government work or something I was really interested in at the time. And it all made sense to look into these like international organizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How did you find out about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Found out about it through, I think someone in the university or just Googling for like international volunteer service, Peace Corps, the British Volunteering Service, the European Volunteer Service, all came up and I obviously qualified for the Peace Corps after I gained my citizenship. So I wanted to call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the application process like when you applied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty long. Lots of, I guess, waiting, applying and waiting, it took me probably three days to apply and then a couple of days to wait. Got the interview fairly quick and then nominated the next day, but then another year and a half to two years of waiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two years of waiting. Was that when you had to mail in and everything and wait for them to mail back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.849832761318435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Found out about it through, I think someone in the university or just Googling for like international volunteer service, Peace Corps, the British Volunteering Service, the European Volunteer Service, all came up and I obviously qualified for the Peace Corps after I gained my citizenship. So I wanted to call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the application process like when you applied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty long. Lots of, I guess, waiting, applying and waiting, it took me probably three days to apply and then a couple of days to wait. Got the interview fairly quick and then nominated the next day, but then another year and a half to two years of waiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two years of waiting. Was that when you had to mail in and everything and wait for them to mail back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was at the time, it was electronic. I mailed in only like certain health records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, great. So did you get to choose what part of the world you wanted to go to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.499814179242705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty long. Lots of, I guess, waiting, applying and waiting, it took me probably three days to apply and then a couple of days to wait. Got the interview fairly quick and then nominated the next day, but then another year and a half to two years of waiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two years of waiting. Was that when you had to mail in and everything and wait for them to mail back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was at the time, it was electronic. I mailed in only like certain health records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, great. So did you get to choose what part of the world you wanted to go to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had the ability to choose regions and I specified Africa or Eastern Europe, because I didn't, I knew I didn't qualify for South America and I didn't feel like going into Asia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and what sector did you serve in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.33312686582523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was at the time, it was electronic. I mailed in only like certain health records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, great. So did you get to choose what part of the world you wanted to go to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had the ability to choose regions and I specified Africa or Eastern Europe, because I didn't, I knew I didn't qualify for South America and I didn't feel like going into Asia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and what sector did you serve in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did small enterprise development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great, tell me about your assignment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.925696517583589, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had the ability to choose regions and I specified Africa or Eastern Europe, because I didn't, I knew I didn't qualify for South America and I didn't feel like going into Asia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and what sector did you serve in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did small enterprise development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great, tell me about your assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was with at first with the regional development of the Northern Regional Development Agency of Moldova, and they were a quasi- government agency that did developmental work in terms of waste management, aqueducts, water purification, building roads, mainly with US aid and European agencies. They were the one who were distributing the funds and then deciding on what type of criteria it meets their standards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and what was your specific position like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.695218352870654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did small enterprise development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great, tell me about your assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was with at first with the regional development of the Northern Regional Development Agency of Moldova, and they were a quasi- government agency that did developmental work in terms of waste management, aqueducts, water purification, building roads, mainly with US aid and European agencies. They were the one who were distributing the funds and then deciding on what type of criteria it meets their standards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and what was your specific position like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I sort of started out just helping them think about the projects, planning things out and working with them in terms of more planning and organizational efficiency in the office. But it didn't work out and unfortunately, there were really busy and really stressed. The organizational structure is more of a top down where the head director had to say in most things. And when he's not there, usually people didn't do much or seriously trying to finish the things he told them to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it didn't work out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.328020392078503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was with at first with the regional development of the Northern Regional Development Agency of Moldova, and they were a quasi- government agency that did developmental work in terms of waste management, aqueducts, water purification, building roads, mainly with US aid and European agencies. They were the one who were distributing the funds and then deciding on what type of criteria it meets their standards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and what was your specific position like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I sort of started out just helping them think about the projects, planning things out and working with them in terms of more planning and organizational efficiency in the office. But it didn't work out and unfortunately, there were really busy and really stressed. The organizational structure is more of a top down where the head director had to say in most things. And when he's not there, usually people didn't do much or seriously trying to finish the things he told them to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it didn't work out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it didn't work out. I stayed there for until February of, no February, April of 2015. And then when I got moved to another agency that dealt with women business development and also just small business development. They had grants that came in from U.S. aid and then they interviewed and researched the applicants that had business ideas, were already developed businesses to contribute more money to or help them better organize and develop their business. They range from like, hair salons to farms to beekeepers to designers, architects. Any regional northern region small time businesses qualified, and they mainly focused on women who started a business or had partners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do specifically with that organization?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.142244880087226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I sort of started out just helping them think about the projects, planning things out and working with them in terms of more planning and organizational efficiency in the office. But it didn't work out and unfortunately, there were really busy and really stressed. The organizational structure is more of a top down where the head director had to say in most things. And when he's not there, usually people didn't do much or seriously trying to finish the things he told them to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it didn't work out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it didn't work out. I stayed there for until February of, no February, April of 2015. And then when I got moved to another agency that dealt with women business development and also just small business development. They had grants that came in from U.S. aid and then they interviewed and researched the applicants that had business ideas, were already developed businesses to contribute more money to or help them better organize and develop their business. They range from like, hair salons to farms to beekeepers to designers, architects. Any regional northern region small time businesses qualified, and they mainly focused on women who started a business or had partners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do specifically with that organization?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very similar to the first organization where I helped them with organizational stuff, technology issues, and just really helped them develop and critique businesses on the businesses ability to perform. And the budget and funding was right for this specific business, or is it too much of a risk? Things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, I want to go back in time a little back to your pre service training. Can you tell me about that? Was it in a different part of the country than you ended up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.935827644541362, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it didn't work out. I stayed there for until February of, no February, April of 2015. And then when I got moved to another agency that dealt with women business development and also just small business development. They had grants that came in from U.S. aid and then they interviewed and researched the applicants that had business ideas, were already developed businesses to contribute more money to or help them better organize and develop their business. They range from like, hair salons to farms to beekeepers to designers, architects. Any regional northern region small time businesses qualified, and they mainly focused on women who started a business or had partners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do specifically with that organization?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very similar to the first organization where I helped them with organizational stuff, technology issues, and just really helped them develop and critique businesses on the businesses ability to perform. And the budget and funding was right for this specific business, or is it too much of a risk? Things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, I want to go back in time a little back to your pre service training. Can you tell me about that? Was it in a different part of the country than you ended up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, pre service. We stayed in a little village called Truescu. It was about 20, 30 minutes from the capital. And we did our language training, their cultural training there, and did a small project there in terms of. Seeing what the organization are, seeing, what the community needed, like research permit and our admin training and medical training was in the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what? How long was that, too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.595364049490403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very similar to the first organization where I helped them with organizational stuff, technology issues, and just really helped them develop and critique businesses on the businesses ability to perform. And the budget and funding was right for this specific business, or is it too much of a risk? Things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, I want to go back in time a little back to your pre service training. Can you tell me about that? Was it in a different part of the country than you ended up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, pre service. We stayed in a little village called Truescu. It was about 20, 30 minutes from the capital. And we did our language training, their cultural training there, and did a small project there in terms of. Seeing what the organization are, seeing, what the community needed, like research permit and our admin training and medical training was in the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what? How long was that, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So from June, June 5th, June six to August, early August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and the training in the capital, was that just a couple of days or did you commute meet back and forth."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.439293388322668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, pre service. We stayed in a little village called Truescu. It was about 20, 30 minutes from the capital. And we did our language training, their cultural training there, and did a small project there in terms of. Seeing what the organization are, seeing, what the community needed, like research permit and our admin training and medical training was in the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what? How long was that, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So from June, June 5th, June six to August, early August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and the training in the capital, was that just a couple of days or did you commute meet back and forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We commuted back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what did you what did your days look like in pre-service training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.932548209247408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So from June, June 5th, June six to August, early August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and the training in the capital, was that just a couple of days or did you commute meet back and forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We commuted back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what did you what did your days look like in pre-service training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About four hours of language in the morning and then another three to four in the afternoon. And then every few days we got afternoon off a little bit early because we did cultural training and what the culture was about, things to do, things not to do. And it was Monday through Saturday and Saturday. We have the afternoon off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so in the morning, you did language, in the afternoon you did job training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.480609121386008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We commuted back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what did you what did your days look like in pre-service training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About four hours of language in the morning and then another three to four in the afternoon. And then every few days we got afternoon off a little bit early because we did cultural training and what the culture was about, things to do, things not to do. And it was Monday through Saturday and Saturday. We have the afternoon off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so in the morning, you did language, in the afternoon you did job training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, job training was once a week. And it was only in the afternoon. It was predominantly language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What language did you learn?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.0895656904289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About four hours of language in the morning and then another three to four in the afternoon. And then every few days we got afternoon off a little bit early because we did cultural training and what the culture was about, things to do, things not to do. And it was Monday through Saturday and Saturday. We have the afternoon off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so in the morning, you did language, in the afternoon you did job training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, job training was once a week. And it was only in the afternoon. It was predominantly language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What language did you learn?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned Romanian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, was that easy to learn?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.655072989365443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, job training was once a week. And it was only in the afternoon. It was predominantly language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What language did you learn?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned Romanian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, was that easy to learn?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First maybe month, month and a half. It was a lot of language wasn't super difficult. It was romance based, kind of like Spanish. The I still don't know, date is very well, but I the I guess word conjugations wasn't too bad. And future tense, past tense was easier as long as you got your basic word verb conjugations correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any expert had you ever heard Romanian before you started learning it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.28341443262827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned Romanian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, was that easy to learn?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First maybe month, month and a half. It was a lot of language wasn't super difficult. It was romance based, kind of like Spanish. The I still don't know, date is very well, but I the I guess word conjugations wasn't too bad. And future tense, past tense was easier as long as you got your basic word verb conjugations correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any expert had you ever heard Romanian before you started learning it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And then I had some conversations with Peace Corps volunteers are currently out in Moldova, and they told me not to study the language. I'll just get it, you know, get on arrival. I'm like, all right, good. And yeah, that was what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you speak Romanian all the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.39837370730901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At site?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During pre-service, not so much. We tried. I had a friend, Andrew, he’s a PCV, he changed his name to Andre when he was there full time. We had conversations in Romania maybe an hour, a day outside of class, just trying to understand each other. We sounded so dumb, but we understood each other and that was OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then once you got to say you speaking Romanian, what time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.22041523034334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During pre-service, not so much. We tried. I had a friend, Andrew, he’s a PCV, he changed his name to Andre when he was there full time. We had conversations in Romania maybe an hour, a day outside of class, just trying to understand each other. We sounded so dumb, but we understood each other and that was OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then once you got to say you speaking Romanian, what time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got to say I was speaking Romanian. Sometimes the host family wanted me to teach their kids English. So I spoke English more with them, the kids and then Romanian with their parents. With foreign languages, I don't, I'm fairly reserved and I don't talk much somewhat introverted and need my time to recharge. But overall, the office I spoke a lot of English too. The only time I spoke Romanian was on my secondary projects with students and youths."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So when you got to site your first couple of months there, what was that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.02268358927038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then once you got to say you speaking Romanian, what time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got to say I was speaking Romanian. Sometimes the host family wanted me to teach their kids English. So I spoke English more with them, the kids and then Romanian with their parents. With foreign languages, I don't, I'm fairly reserved and I don't talk much somewhat introverted and need my time to recharge. But overall, the office I spoke a lot of English too. The only time I spoke Romanian was on my secondary projects with students and youths."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So when you got to site your first couple of months there, what was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, it was OK. I had site mates. Four site mates, actually five, before September and then four site mates throughout until the first group left, but we interacted with each other fairly regularly, had projects working with each other. First couple of months with the host family was OK. My language eventually developed where I had no problems understanding them, although my host dad translated my Romanian to other people. It's like I said the same thing. He just said it another way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Romanian to Romanian."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.802981765855975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got to say I was speaking Romanian. Sometimes the host family wanted me to teach their kids English. So I spoke English more with them, the kids and then Romanian with their parents. With foreign languages, I don't, I'm fairly reserved and I don't talk much somewhat introverted and need my time to recharge. But overall, the office I spoke a lot of English too. The only time I spoke Romanian was on my secondary projects with students and youths."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So when you got to site your first couple of months there, what was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, it was OK. I had site mates. Four site mates, actually five, before September and then four site mates throughout until the first group left, but we interacted with each other fairly regularly, had projects working with each other. First couple of months with the host family was OK. My language eventually developed where I had no problems understanding them, although my host dad translated my Romanian to other people. It's like I said the same thing. He just said it another way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Romanian to Romanian."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was fairly good. Summer was ending, winter was coming. And I just got to know people and explore different projects and ideas in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, was it a hard adjustment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.44775751761775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, it was OK. I had site mates. Four site mates, actually five, before September and then four site mates throughout until the first group left, but we interacted with each other fairly regularly, had projects working with each other. First couple of months with the host family was OK. My language eventually developed where I had no problems understanding them, although my host dad translated my Romanian to other people. It's like I said the same thing. He just said it another way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Romanian to Romanian."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was fairly good. Summer was ending, winter was coming. And I just got to know people and explore different projects and ideas in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, was it a hard adjustment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't a hard adjustment, culturally. I felt like Moldova post Soviet bloc was very similar to China during the 1990s. And I grew up in China. I was born there. And the buildings all look very similar to people culturally or different. But like workwise, I like the mentality of communism was fairly similar. So it wasn't too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, you mentioned living with the host family, did you live with the host family the full two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.830841686241943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was fairly good. Summer was ending, winter was coming. And I just got to know people and explore different projects and ideas in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, was it a hard adjustment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't a hard adjustment, culturally. I felt like Moldova post Soviet bloc was very similar to China during the 1990s. And I grew up in China. I was born there. And the buildings all look very similar to people culturally or different. But like workwise, I like the mentality of communism was fairly similar. So it wasn't too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, you mentioned living with the host family, did you live with the host family the full two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not. So I stayed with them from August, the second host family at the actual site from August to January. At about October or November, they started hinting that I should move out because they had another baby coming and that was the fourth kid. So there were like, you should just move to our apartment. I didn't want to do that because I didn't know what winter was like buying food. And all that was just strange to me at the time. So I eventually moved out in January to the new to the apartment, because the room that I was staying in, the gas wasn't very strong and it wasn't very warm. So they were like, the apartment’s really warm. And I'm like, alright I’ll just move there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it your family's apartment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.367601873602158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't a hard adjustment, culturally. I felt like Moldova post Soviet bloc was very similar to China during the 1990s. And I grew up in China. I was born there. And the buildings all look very similar to people culturally or different. But like workwise, I like the mentality of communism was fairly similar. So it wasn't too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, you mentioned living with the host family, did you live with the host family the full two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not. So I stayed with them from August, the second host family at the actual site from August to January. At about October or November, they started hinting that I should move out because they had another baby coming and that was the fourth kid. So there were like, you should just move to our apartment. I didn't want to do that because I didn't know what winter was like buying food. And all that was just strange to me at the time. So I eventually moved out in January to the new to the apartment, because the room that I was staying in, the gas wasn't very strong and it wasn't very warm. So they were like, the apartment’s really warm. And I'm like, alright I’ll just move there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it your family's apartment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my host family's apartment. Not connected, a whole different block on the other side of town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were just like, get out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.075113192891287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not. So I stayed with them from August, the second host family at the actual site from August to January. At about October or November, they started hinting that I should move out because they had another baby coming and that was the fourth kid. So there were like, you should just move to our apartment. I didn't want to do that because I didn't know what winter was like buying food. And all that was just strange to me at the time. So I eventually moved out in January to the new to the apartment, because the room that I was staying in, the gas wasn't very strong and it wasn't very warm. So they were like, the apartment’s really warm. And I'm like, alright I’ll just move there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it your family's apartment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my host family's apartment. Not connected, a whole different block on the other side of town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were just like, get out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They, like, just live there. Well, it's the same rent. I get this place by yourself and I'm like, sounds great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cool. And then did you live with a different host family during your pre-service training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.97234799210143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my host family's apartment. Not connected, a whole different block on the other side of town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were just like, get out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They, like, just live there. Well, it's the same rent. I get this place by yourself and I'm like, sounds great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cool. And then did you live with a different host family during your pre-service training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a different host family during pre-service. They were in the village and fairly well-off host family just like the one in Balti, you know, very family of lawyers in Balti and, in training site Truescu, and then in Balti it was a family of furniture merchants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to hear about your secondary projects now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.969275546779365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They, like, just live there. Well, it's the same rent. I get this place by yourself and I'm like, sounds great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cool. And then did you live with a different host family during your pre-service training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a different host family during pre-service. They were in the village and fairly well-off host family just like the one in Balti, you know, very family of lawyers in Balti and, in training site Truescu, and then in Balti it was a family of furniture merchants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to hear about your secondary projects now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a lot of secondary projects that I mainly worked with another volunteer for recycling during near the end of my service. We did a recycling program coming out of the schools, had a recycling center off of far side of town that got sold recyclables to Romania. He was able to pick up each local school. We had about eight school sites that did plastics and paper recycling knows one of my bigger projects. Also some of the other ones, I did a volunteering training program with another volunteer out of the the city hall. And it was fairly big, already developed by previous volunteer, had about 40 or 50 students trained every semester. And we trained as students on how to why it's important to volunteer, what is volunteering, how to develop their projects, and then giving them a small amount of money or teaching them how to raise the money to complete a project. Some of them were volunteering at the orphanage, painting, repainting for playgrounds. Some other ones were like sustainability, how to how to keep building sustainable and things like that. I also taught English once a week at the school at a local high school with 12 and 11 former high school students and taught Chinese once a week out of local Chinese school that I randomly found to high school middle school students, mainly conversational, some reading and writing. And I think those were all those secondary problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sounds like you kept really busy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.743639496421515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a different host family during pre-service. They were in the village and fairly well-off host family just like the one in Balti, you know, very family of lawyers in Balti and, in training site Truescu, and then in Balti it was a family of furniture merchants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to hear about your secondary projects now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a lot of secondary projects that I mainly worked with another volunteer for recycling during near the end of my service. We did a recycling program coming out of the schools, had a recycling center off of far side of town that got sold recyclables to Romania. He was able to pick up each local school. We had about eight school sites that did plastics and paper recycling knows one of my bigger projects. Also some of the other ones, I did a volunteering training program with another volunteer out of the the city hall. And it was fairly big, already developed by previous volunteer, had about 40 or 50 students trained every semester. And we trained as students on how to why it's important to volunteer, what is volunteering, how to develop their projects, and then giving them a small amount of money or teaching them how to raise the money to complete a project. Some of them were volunteering at the orphanage, painting, repainting for playgrounds. Some other ones were like sustainability, how to how to keep building sustainable and things like that. I also taught English once a week at the school at a local high school with 12 and 11 former high school students and taught Chinese once a week out of local Chinese school that I randomly found to high school middle school students, mainly conversational, some reading and writing. And I think those were all those secondary problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sounds like you kept really busy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. It was ups and downs sometimes during for like six weeks at a time, Sunday to Sunday, like literally eight to 12 hour days doing the volunteering project and sometimes two to three weeks without much because it was summer and no one was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that sounds right. What did a regular week look like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.046215001814623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had a reported population of one hundred and twenty thousand, but realistically probably seventy thousand. Okay. From center of town you can walk to the village, the farmlands within fifteen minutes and if you walked north, maybe it'll take you 30, 40 minutes to get to a village or like just the farm outside of the city and not very big. No. You sort of either knew everybody or like second or third degree knew other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about tell me about your host family's house and then tell me about the apartment that you moved into."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my host family's house is very central, literally downtown. It was an office style house where it was two stories. First story had some storage stuff. Second story was their house, house, apartment. Inside the first door was their their house. It was very well furnished, one to two bedrooms with a big kitchen and living room together and a loft in one of the other bedrooms. OK, fairly big. And my room was the third door, which is just an office that they repurposed to, um, to a living quarters. Everyone except mom and dad slept on couch beds, which is like Soviet style couch was more comfortable than your American futons and stuff like that. I'm fairly, fairly firm, very durable. And it was very comfortable, had a bookshelf, a desk, a chair and the futon with like a closet in my area. The bathroom was right next to outside, but right next to my room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice, and you said something about the gas and the heating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so the gas was turned on whenever the temperature reaches a certain threshold and the government's like, we need to turn on gas hostname. I found out this later. The host family had the on switch and then my room had an on off switch, but my own switch was in turn on and when it was turned on, the host family got the first round of gas and then whatever filtered down to me I had wasn't too bad. Very variable. But you have to wear like multiple layers during winter if you want to stay in that room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the winter like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.106438273845214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so the gas was turned on whenever the temperature reaches a certain threshold and the government's like, we need to turn on gas hostname. I found out this later. The host family had the on switch and then my room had an on off switch, but my own switch was in turn on and when it was turned on, the host family got the first round of gas and then whatever filtered down to me I had wasn't too bad. Very variable. But you have to wear like multiple layers during winter if you want to stay in that room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the winter like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Winter, winter would probably be like New York or Maryland. OK, it was sort of, I guess inside your bones kind of chill as long as you root, you know, you layered up, it's totally fine. What worried me about winter was the ice. The roads weren't very clear. Like luckily the roads, there are a lot of potholes. So you step into them, there's some sort of traction for the ice, but you really can't see some of the black ice and they don't really clear the ice during winter. And me being really tall, I fell all the time. Oh, even with the trucks on which I like the way springs. So yak tracks, you put them over your shoes and have like spring coils along the bottom, that helps traction a little bit. But I stopped wearing them because mine was like bright orange and only the foreigners wore them. So it's like I'll just be very careful. My friend told me to just waddle like a penguin and it did work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That made you stand out less."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a lot less than the orange yak tracks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, hey so I wonder what was packing like if you had to pack all those winter clothes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.896042526494682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Winter, winter would probably be like New York or Maryland. OK, it was sort of, I guess inside your bones kind of chill as long as you root, you know, you layered up, it's totally fine. What worried me about winter was the ice. The roads weren't very clear. Like luckily the roads, there are a lot of potholes. So you step into them, there's some sort of traction for the ice, but you really can't see some of the black ice and they don't really clear the ice during winter. And me being really tall, I fell all the time. Oh, even with the trucks on which I like the way springs. So yak tracks, you put them over your shoes and have like spring coils along the bottom, that helps traction a little bit. But I stopped wearing them because mine was like bright orange and only the foreigners wore them. So it's like I'll just be very careful. My friend told me to just waddle like a penguin and it did work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That made you stand out less."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a lot less than the orange yak tracks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, hey so I wonder what was packing like if you had to pack all those winter clothes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, winter clothes. I brought one coats, one coat. I found another coat at Peace Corps, when people leave, they just leave a bunch of stuff, so another coat there. I had thermals prepacked during summer and it wasn't, it wasn't too bad as long as you knew how to layer it was totally fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get, I just know that there's like a weight limit for your bags when you travel. And I feel like having to pack a bunch of coats would make it trickier."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.982768551228002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, winter clothes. I brought one coats, one coat. I found another coat at Peace Corps, when people leave, they just leave a bunch of stuff, so another coat there. I had thermals prepacked during summer and it wasn't, it wasn't too bad as long as you knew how to layer it was totally fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get, I just know that there's like a weight limit for your bags when you travel. And I feel like having to pack a bunch of coats would make it trickier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My weight limit was right on seventy five."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it wasn't too bad. I had one big luggage actually one big one big luggage, a big backpack and a smaller luggage that I packed. I crammed the small luggage so much ended up weighing like thirty five pounds for like a carry-on luggage. Yeah it's quite a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But they don't weigh your carry-ons."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.091965056920003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My weight limit was right on seventy five."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it wasn't too bad. I had one big luggage actually one big one big luggage, a big backpack and a smaller luggage that I packed. I crammed the small luggage so much ended up weighing like thirty five pounds for like a carry-on luggage. Yeah it's quite a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But they don't weigh your carry-ons."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They don't weigh carry-ons. So if that was good I think my backpack was about twenty five pounds so I'm all over one hundred pounds of materials."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Ok, so what were your, what was your favorite project that you did? You told us about them, but you didn't tell us that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.324405618800004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it wasn't too bad. I had one big luggage actually one big one big luggage, a big backpack and a smaller luggage that I packed. I crammed the small luggage so much ended up weighing like thirty five pounds for like a carry-on luggage. Yeah it's quite a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But they don't weigh your carry-ons."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They don't weigh carry-ons. So if that was good I think my backpack was about twenty five pounds so I'm all over one hundred pounds of materials."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Ok, so what were your, what was your favorite project that you did? You told us about them, but you didn't tell us that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My favorite project would have to be overall teaching students, working with students either in English, Chinese or volunteering. That was fairly hands on. You get to see how the students develop and grow, really understand different topics and their strange and foreign to them, something that their schools or parents wouldn't be able to explain for volunteering. So the Soviet type volunteering before sort of mandatory and they had volunteering days where you go plant trees or clean your community or, you know, help beautify the surrounding environment. I was once, once a year, maybe twice a year, and the school's other students were kind of forced to clean their classroom and all that stuff. So building the mentality of volunteering is good for your community was difficult at first. But when you see them understand and get the topics, it's really, I guess, rewarding and nice to see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you have anybody you were close with in your community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.804895132000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They don't weigh carry-ons. So if that was good I think my backpack was about twenty five pounds so I'm all over one hundred pounds of materials."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Ok, so what were your, what was your favorite project that you did? You told us about them, but you didn't tell us that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My favorite project would have to be overall teaching students, working with students either in English, Chinese or volunteering. That was fairly hands on. You get to see how the students develop and grow, really understand different topics and their strange and foreign to them, something that their schools or parents wouldn't be able to explain for volunteering. So the Soviet type volunteering before sort of mandatory and they had volunteering days where you go plant trees or clean your community or, you know, help beautify the surrounding environment. I was once, once a year, maybe twice a year, and the school's other students were kind of forced to clean their classroom and all that stuff. So building the mentality of volunteering is good for your community was difficult at first. But when you see them understand and get the topics, it's really, I guess, rewarding and nice to see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you have anybody you were close with in your community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, mainly the high school students in terms of local local people, high school students, hang out with them once in a while, either go running or, you know, walk around the neighborhood. And then I was fairly close to Peace Corps volunteers because we did all of the projects together. And I think without the Peace Corps volunteers, I would have been more sheltered and need more time to recharge. But having them as an outlet because they know they understand how I feel, they're more familiar with things, was something very important to have. Um, it was a good balance between local and Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get to see the Peace Corps volunteers who worked at your site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.851708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The country that I stayed I volunteered in didn't have a rule on internal travel. With some countries you have to take vacation or PTO to internally travel. Ours did not, until I think possibly the end of my service, but that's another story. So I always found other volunteers that needed help with projects or just wanted to. I guess I just wanted to see a different part of the country. I know I pretty much travel throughout the country except the very far north. I don't think I made it all the way to Edinet, but overall I did a lot of traveling throughout the country and because I was the capital, a lot of volunteers came into my site because they needed to get away from the host family or just needed like a place to take a break and cool down. My apartment was fairly big enough to host a lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. You mentioned traveling, did you go on any vacations nearby countries while you're there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went on quite a bit of vacations, but I don't think I've finished all of my vacation days. My furthest vacation would have to be China. I went for Chinese New Year's for seven or nine days. And that was fairly good. But surrounding region in Europe, I did Germany, Hungary, Romania, Austria and Slovenia or Slovakia, which ever, one of the two countries that inland next to Austria. Went to Israel, that was very fun. And I think that’s it. Never got to go to Ukraine because the site kind of closed and we weren't allowed to go until the end of service. And by that time, I didn't want to travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. That sounds like a lot of places to go without finishing vacation days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, also Czech Republic. Czech Republic is really fun. Oh, and Italy. Italy was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow! You did a good job seeing the continent."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 18.72412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went on quite a bit of vacations, but I don't think I've finished all of my vacation days. My furthest vacation would have to be China. I went for Chinese New Year's for seven or nine days. And that was fairly good. But surrounding region in Europe, I did Germany, Hungary, Romania, Austria and Slovenia or Slovakia, which ever, one of the two countries that inland next to Austria. Went to Israel, that was very fun. And I think that’s it. Never got to go to Ukraine because the site kind of closed and we weren't allowed to go until the end of service. And by that time, I didn't want to travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. That sounds like a lot of places to go without finishing vacation days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, also Czech Republic. Czech Republic is really fun. Oh, and Italy. Italy was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow! You did a good job seeing the continent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went out maybe a week at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Awesome. Alright, so we talked about how it was coming in, like in your first year, at least, it is a pretty easy transition. What was your last year like, the end of your service like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.0268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, also Czech Republic. Czech Republic is really fun. Oh, and Italy. Italy was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow! You did a good job seeing the continent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went out maybe a week at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Awesome. Alright, so we talked about how it was coming in, like in your first year, at least, it is a pretty easy transition. What was your last year like, the end of your service like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like the last year was busier than the first year because new volunteers came in to work with them and get them to understand the community after their transition for maybe a month or two. And one of my friends, his name is Bartosz. He's a Polish-American volunteer that had stronger language abilities than me. He knew Polish and Russian and studied Romanian. So he was a great use to go to the Russian speaking part of the city, which is pretty much everywhere, and get connections and work with people to develop projects. I used to either speak Romanian or get a student to translate, but having him around was very helpful and I don't think the recycling project would have started without having his help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so what about the last, like three months of your service when you're closing down on your projects?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00128:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.251999999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went out maybe a week at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Awesome. Alright, so we talked about how it was coming in, like in your first year, at least, it is a pretty easy transition. What was your last year like, the end of your service like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like the last year was busier than the first year because new volunteers came in to work with them and get them to understand the community after their transition for maybe a month or two. And one of my friends, his name is Bartosz. He's a Polish-American volunteer that had stronger language abilities than me. He knew Polish and Russian and studied Romanian. So he was a great use to go to the Russian speaking part of the city, which is pretty much everywhere, and get connections and work with people to develop projects. I used to either speak Romanian or get a student to translate, but having him around was very helpful and I don't think the recycling project would have started without having his help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so what about the last, like three months of your service when you're closing down on your projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't actually close down the last three months because our recycling project was, I guess, midway and ended in April. And then we had to do, I guess, summaries and reviews and see how we can sustain the project further into the future. And I still taught English, taught Chinese, and the volunteering project was also wrapping up, but not finalized. And then the main goal towards the last three months was to make sure that the volunteers who were staying there had the ability and the connections and the people and the know how to get what they needed. I'm just documenting these things, reminding them, you know, things to do and things not to do was, I guess, the main task."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then what was your transition back home like?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 37.20100932335854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We ended up doing just one leg. We were debating. We ended up making a decision in flight at a point to go ahead and continue based on our fuel burn. That was another reason for doing the test flight, was to look at our fuel burns on takeoff and at cruise to estimate what our fuel consumption was going to be for the duration. We ended up putting enough fuel in to get there. I think that particular day we had a wind issue, a crosswind component issue that sort of that worked itself out. We made an on-the-spot decision somewhere over, I think, Phoenix [Arizona] to press on, so we got the vehicle there the same flight, one flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you fly with your normal crew of two pilots and two flight engineers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we did. One of the pilots that I flew with, Triple [Jack A.] Nickel, is now retired, and I think it was Henry [T. Taylor] and [Gary W. Ash], on that flight with me, if I’m not mistaken."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take any of the Boeing folks? I know when you take an orbiter that has hypergols on it, you can’t take anybody else. Did you take some Boeing people with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. You know, the Shuttle carrier is not a stock airplane, obviously, and so anytime we have a test article or a Shuttle, it’s considered an experimental aircraft, and so our rules at Johnson prevent us from taking anybody during a ferry, although we’re making one slight exception for this next leg. We’re doing a flyover. For [Space Shuttle] Discovery we’ve got one gentleman from the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration] that’s going to be riding with us. That’s sort of unprecedented, so it’s a different thing for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a Pathfinder involved in the Phantom Ray?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 34.667788137065045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we did. One of the pilots that I flew with, Triple [Jack A.] Nickel, is now retired, and I think it was Henry [T. Taylor] and [Gary W. Ash], on that flight with me, if I’m not mistaken."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take any of the Boeing folks? I know when you take an orbiter that has hypergols on it, you can’t take anybody else. Did you take some Boeing people with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. You know, the Shuttle carrier is not a stock airplane, obviously, and so anytime we have a test article or a Shuttle, it’s considered an experimental aircraft, and so our rules at Johnson prevent us from taking anybody during a ferry, although we’re making one slight exception for this next leg. We’re doing a flyover. For [Space Shuttle] Discovery we’ve got one gentleman from the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration] that’s going to be riding with us. That’s sort of unprecedented, so it’s a different thing for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a Pathfinder involved in the Phantom Ray?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. We had a Pathfinder C-9. It’s, in fact, the same Pathfinder we’re going to have on the [April] 17th, I think the same pilots. But we ended up having a chase ship, an F-18 chase ship that did all the filming of the Phantom Ray up to arrival into Edwards that I think he probably followed us for maybe 150 miles or something like that, the last 150 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This summer there was another event involving the SCA that I thought was interesting, and that was the first time that you flew in formation with the SCAs. Would you talk about that decision to do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.86158838144343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. I’m trying to think which direction we were. We were in the desert about 20 miles or so from Edwards, and we basically had the lead, in this case, was flown by Bill Brockett, and we had him and myself and Arthur [C.] Beall, “Ace” Beall. I don’t know if you know him. You probably talked to him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re going to talk to him on Monday."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He used to have my job, but now we’ve hired him back. Anyway, Ace and I were in the wing aircraft, so we traded off a little bit. I flew some of the formation, he did some of it, and we basically just had the lead aircraft orbit in a holding pattern at a constant altitude while we got some shots. So it was a unique thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a challenge to fly in formation or to get those videos?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. For the video people, I don’t think they had too much problems. They’re professional guys at Dryden. They do this stuff all the time, this air-to-air stuff. But, yes, we took it easy. We had quite a bit of separation, wing-tip separation, in formation, but it wasn’t difficult, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned in an email earlier that you had flown the 747 commercially for quite a few years."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 39.846209312714926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He used to have my job, but now we’ve hired him back. Anyway, Ace and I were in the wing aircraft, so we traded off a little bit. I flew some of the formation, he did some of it, and we basically just had the lead aircraft orbit in a holding pattern at a constant altitude while we got some shots. So it was a unique thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a challenge to fly in formation or to get those videos?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. For the video people, I don’t think they had too much problems. They’re professional guys at Dryden. They do this stuff all the time, this air-to-air stuff. But, yes, we took it easy. We had quite a bit of separation, wing-tip separation, in formation, but it wasn’t difficult, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned in an email earlier that you had flown the 747 commercially for quite a few years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came onboard to fly the SCA, was it a major challenge or difference that you noticed?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.82912145857214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. For the video people, I don’t think they had too much problems. They’re professional guys at Dryden. They do this stuff all the time, this air-to-air stuff. But, yes, we took it easy. We had quite a bit of separation, wing-tip separation, in formation, but it wasn’t difficult, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned in an email earlier that you had flown the 747 commercially for quite a few years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came onboard to fly the SCA, was it a major challenge or difference that you noticed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The SCA is not that difficult to fly, compared to the commercial counterpart. There’s some restrictions on the SCA that are not placed on the Boeing 747, so it’s learning the differences of the airplane. We fly the airplane at 250 knots indicated airspeed, which is way slower than you’d fly a Boeing 747, and that’s because the vehicle configuration and the tip fins that we have that have a speed restriction. The airplane’s flown at 250 knots, and we limit our bank with the orbiter to 20 degrees of bank. The airplane climbs extremely slow, so you have to really fly the airplane to a tighter specification than you would a Boeing 747 just to get the airplane to climb. You’re really very degraded in climb performance with an orbiter on top. You don’t have a lot of backup energy, so you have to use every bit of energy and fly the airplane to an exact speed to keep the airplane climbing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We learned from Larry today that this is a 100 Series."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 44.25457939841348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came onboard to fly the SCA, was it a major challenge or difference that you noticed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The SCA is not that difficult to fly, compared to the commercial counterpart. There’s some restrictions on the SCA that are not placed on the Boeing 747, so it’s learning the differences of the airplane. We fly the airplane at 250 knots indicated airspeed, which is way slower than you’d fly a Boeing 747, and that’s because the vehicle configuration and the tip fins that we have that have a speed restriction. The airplane’s flown at 250 knots, and we limit our bank with the orbiter to 20 degrees of bank. The airplane climbs extremely slow, so you have to really fly the airplane to a tighter specification than you would a Boeing 747 just to get the airplane to climb. You’re really very degraded in climb performance with an orbiter on top. You don’t have a lot of backup energy, so you have to use every bit of energy and fly the airplane to an exact speed to keep the airplane climbing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We learned from Larry today that this is a 100 Series."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you flown a 100 Series before you got here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 42.50508822045943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The SCA is not that difficult to fly, compared to the commercial counterpart. There’s some restrictions on the SCA that are not placed on the Boeing 747, so it’s learning the differences of the airplane. We fly the airplane at 250 knots indicated airspeed, which is way slower than you’d fly a Boeing 747, and that’s because the vehicle configuration and the tip fins that we have that have a speed restriction. The airplane’s flown at 250 knots, and we limit our bank with the orbiter to 20 degrees of bank. The airplane climbs extremely slow, so you have to really fly the airplane to a tighter specification than you would a Boeing 747 just to get the airplane to climb. You’re really very degraded in climb performance with an orbiter on top. You don’t have a lot of backup energy, so you have to use every bit of energy and fly the airplane to an exact speed to keep the airplane climbing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We learned from Larry today that this is a 100 Series."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you flown a 100 Series before you got here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yes, I’d flown 100s and 200s and 400s, so, yes. The 100s and 200s, from a pilot’s perspective and from a rating perspective are the same. On my license I have B-747, B-747, and that allows you to fly the 100s and 200s and actually the 300s. That’s another story. That’s a foreign airplane. Then the 400 is a completely different airplane. So there’s really, for the 747, there’s really like two licenses or ratings that you get, one of them to fly up through 100 through 300, and then a separate rating for the 400. So from the pilot’s perspective, there’s just not a lot of difference between what maybe would be a 100 and a 200. There’s some only minor differences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that that plane out there is a fly-by-cable plane. Can you tell us about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.450098022732696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you flown a 100 Series before you got here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yes, I’d flown 100s and 200s and 400s, so, yes. The 100s and 200s, from a pilot’s perspective and from a rating perspective are the same. On my license I have B-747, B-747, and that allows you to fly the 100s and 200s and actually the 300s. That’s another story. That’s a foreign airplane. Then the 400 is a completely different airplane. So there’s really, for the 747, there’s really like two licenses or ratings that you get, one of them to fly up through 100 through 300, and then a separate rating for the 400. So from the pilot’s perspective, there’s just not a lot of difference between what maybe would be a 100 and a 200. There’s some only minor differences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that that plane out there is a fly-by-cable plane. Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s a misnomer a little bit, because there’s aircraft coming out now, for example, that have been out for a while, the Triple-7 [Boeing 777] and the Airbus 380, possibly some other airbus, I think the Airbus 319, and they’re, quote, “fly-by-wire.” NASA developed fly-by-wire many years ago at Dryden, but this airplane is really no different than a lot of the fleet out there. When you say fly by cable, all it means is from the control column you have a cable that runs to a hydraulic actuator and hydraulically moves the control surface. So we’re not anything in the Stone Ages here. It’s a normal configuration as far as hydraulics for many airplanes that you’ll fly on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How is the flight crew for the SCA different from flying a commercial flight crew? For instance, there’s a pilot, a co-pilot, and two flight engineers."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 43.833442247480775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yes, I’d flown 100s and 200s and 400s, so, yes. The 100s and 200s, from a pilot’s perspective and from a rating perspective are the same. On my license I have B-747, B-747, and that allows you to fly the 100s and 200s and actually the 300s. That’s another story. That’s a foreign airplane. Then the 400 is a completely different airplane. So there’s really, for the 747, there’s really like two licenses or ratings that you get, one of them to fly up through 100 through 300, and then a separate rating for the 400. So from the pilot’s perspective, there’s just not a lot of difference between what maybe would be a 100 and a 200. There’s some only minor differences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that that plane out there is a fly-by-cable plane. Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s a misnomer a little bit, because there’s aircraft coming out now, for example, that have been out for a while, the Triple-7 [Boeing 777] and the Airbus 380, possibly some other airbus, I think the Airbus 319, and they’re, quote, “fly-by-wire.” NASA developed fly-by-wire many years ago at Dryden, but this airplane is really no different than a lot of the fleet out there. When you say fly by cable, all it means is from the control column you have a cable that runs to a hydraulic actuator and hydraulically moves the control surface. So we’re not anything in the Stone Ages here. It’s a normal configuration as far as hydraulics for many airplanes that you’ll fly on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How is the flight crew for the SCA different from flying a commercial flight crew? For instance, there’s a pilot, a co-pilot, and two flight engineers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there’s typically only one flight engineer on your 747."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 50.0083024220577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I have some input to it. We generally try to be fair with everybody. We don’t try to have one guy hog the seat, so we generally rotate everybody on the ferries. We’re coming up on a situation now where we’re in a different environment because the Shuttle Program is over and we’re just delivering the vehicles. Because it’s a Johnson program, we’re doing the last flights. That’s just because it’s a Johnson program, nothing against our colleagues in Dryden. It’s like they fly SOFIA [Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared Astronomy], that’s their program, and they’ll take the last flights for SOFIA someday. It’s a little different than we normally operate, I would say, even though they are participating. Everybody’s participating in the ferry in one way or the other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they’re not going to fly the airplanes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They are, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they are. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We’ve got several legs coming up. We’ve got several legs where we’re going to move the vehicle back to Edwards. We’ve probably got—we don’t know how many legs coming up in September, at least three legs to get to California, and then we’re going to stage out of Edwards going to Los Angles [California]. So, yes, they’re participating in ferries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me, what are the tasks of a pilot before you get to do a ferry flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.114286382147675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "905 and 911?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, 911 has seen its last flight, and I flew the last flight over to Palmdale, and the airplane’s resting over there now. But, no, there’s very few differences. The basic airframe is a 747 Series airplane, where the 100s or 200s are very much similar. This airplane, its flight characteristics are almost identical to 911’s. It has a few cockpit differences and overhead panel differences, but other than that, you don’t see it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So nothing when you’ve flown it, you’d say, “Oh, of course it’s 911”?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if you have a favorite, you might for some particular personal reason like one or the other, but you’re not going to see that big a difference in their flying characteristics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many ferry flights did you fly from Edwards to KSC?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 25.68254042460853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, 911 has seen its last flight, and I flew the last flight over to Palmdale, and the airplane’s resting over there now. But, no, there’s very few differences. The basic airframe is a 747 Series airplane, where the 100s or 200s are very much similar. This airplane, its flight characteristics are almost identical to 911’s. It has a few cockpit differences and overhead panel differences, but other than that, you don’t see it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So nothing when you’ve flown it, you’d say, “Oh, of course it’s 911”?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if you have a favorite, you might for some particular personal reason like one or the other, but you’re not going to see that big a difference in their flying characteristics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many ferry flights did you fly from Edwards to KSC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve done, I think, four, and then Phantom Ray."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first ferry?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.86948936067614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if you have a favorite, you might for some particular personal reason like one or the other, but you’re not going to see that big a difference in their flying characteristics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many ferry flights did you fly from Edwards to KSC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve done, I think, four, and then Phantom Ray."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first ferry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was with Dave Finney, and he was my boss at the time. We had some weather on this particular ferry mission and we ended up that particular leg, my first leg, was out of Omaha, Nebraska. It was Omaha to Fort Campbell, Kentucky. So it was a unique experience for me. I remember that experience very well. One reason is Dave has passed away, and so I think of him when I think of that particular flight.\\n\\n But it was a unique experience that day. From a pilot’s perspective, coming from this airplane prior, the big difference, the big thing that shocks you, even though you’ve seen it in the simulator, is really the takeoff roll. You don’t really realize it takes a long time to get this airplane off the runway. You could almost think you can read one chapter of a book while you’re waiting on the airplane to accelerate. It’s a long time. It would be sort of unnerving, I think, to an airline pilot, even a 747 pilot, who jumped in this airplane and experienced this set of conditions, because the runway length is so long that you become a little bit unnerved about the distance remaining before you actually rotate the airplane. Even though you’ve seen it in the simulator, when you actually do it, you’re hoping your acceleration schedule is good. You’re hoping the airplane’s accelerating on schedule to meet the number of parameters that you’re shooting for. It’s a big mass to get stopped. If you were to have to stop this thing at the end and if everything’s not done right, you’re going to go off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About how long does it take you to lift off the ground from that runway?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.1500262021726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we are doing a media flight, and I can’t remember—there’s Lori [B.] Garver [NASA Deputy Administrator]. There’s three or four people I think they want us to shake hands with. I don’t think they really have anything planned for the most part until the 19th. The 19th is when they do their show-and-tell of [Space Shuttle] Enterprise and Discovery, and they’re going to have USA guys tow them nose to nose, and then they’re going to have the senators or something there. I don’t know what they’re going to do. People that want a picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Typically when you would land for one leg of a Shuttle flight, did you have any responsibilities at the end of the day, or could you leave and then the aircraft crew—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At an intermediate stop, do you mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At an intermediate stop or your final stop."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once we do the final delivery, once we get back here, it’s taken over by the maintenance folks and the USA folks, and now it’s theirs. They own it now. We’re done with it. We usually take the Pathfinder back to Houston within a couple of hours. But on intermediate stops we’re very aware of everything that’s going on. We could have maintenance issues on the airplane. We could have a brake problem. We could have something that needs to be changed, some part. We’re aware of that, and we have a briefing. Don McCormack usually has a pre-ferry daily briefing, and that includes the weather, the status of the vehicle, and a lot of other things. A lot of other people chime in based on runway availability and changes and things like that. So on an intermediate stop, we’re always thinking about it. We’re at the hotel, but we’re always planning for the next day based on what the weather’s doing. But, once we get the vehicle here, they own it. It’s USA’s baby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have there ever been any in-flight emergencies when you’re flying the SCA where something had to be fixed?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 22.388918002414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At an intermediate stop, do you mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At an intermediate stop or your final stop."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once we do the final delivery, once we get back here, it’s taken over by the maintenance folks and the USA folks, and now it’s theirs. They own it now. We’re done with it. We usually take the Pathfinder back to Houston within a couple of hours. But on intermediate stops we’re very aware of everything that’s going on. We could have maintenance issues on the airplane. We could have a brake problem. We could have something that needs to be changed, some part. We’re aware of that, and we have a briefing. Don McCormack usually has a pre-ferry daily briefing, and that includes the weather, the status of the vehicle, and a lot of other things. A lot of other people chime in based on runway availability and changes and things like that. So on an intermediate stop, we’re always thinking about it. We’re at the hotel, but we’re always planning for the next day based on what the weather’s doing. But, once we get the vehicle here, they own it. It’s USA’s baby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have there ever been any in-flight emergencies when you’re flying the SCA where something had to be fixed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven’t. In the past, they have. Henry’s probably told you stories. They’ve had a fire out of Edwards before. I can’t remember. Henry could tell you who was flying. I think maybe Gordo was flying the airplane. They ended up coming back around, shutting that motor down, and having no other problems. But it was a real fire. Sometimes you’ll get indications occasionally, but I think they ended up having a real fire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who handles the maintenance if you do have an issue, say you’ve landed and you need to replace a tire or something like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.3260000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every airplane in existence has either a time restriction on the motors or some maintenance issues or some requirement for inspections. So we had that situation where we had two airplanes and we just had a lot more maintenance to do on 911, and it was not going to be productive cost-wise to keep that airplane flying, spend a lot of money, and then let 905 go. So it was a money thing. We looked at what inspections were required, what engine work was required, and we decided 911 was the one to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As Chief Pilot, did you ever get to decide which SCA was going to ferry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for a long time 905 was dormant. In fact, it was, I think, on the order of almost two years. You have to talk to Henry. He’ll know the exact dates. But we were down for two years for engine issues, and we solely used 911. We had an engine up in Canada that we were waiting on. See, these are old motors. You have to remember, this is old stuff. These are old Pratt & Whitney motors. In the past we’ve had situations where an airplane may be down for an extended period of time, and so you had no choice as to what Shuttle carrier you used, but, no, I really didn’t have any input. In the old days, when this was a really moving program, they pretty much alternated the SCAs for the orbiters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that 905 was down for a while. Does that present a problem? There were fewer and fewer ferry flights as the program went along because there were more landings out here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a problem when you wanted to take one of these planes and do a ferry flight if it had been sitting for a while?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.14, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for a long time 905 was dormant. In fact, it was, I think, on the order of almost two years. You have to talk to Henry. He’ll know the exact dates. But we were down for two years for engine issues, and we solely used 911. We had an engine up in Canada that we were waiting on. See, these are old motors. You have to remember, this is old stuff. These are old Pratt & Whitney motors. In the past we’ve had situations where an airplane may be down for an extended period of time, and so you had no choice as to what Shuttle carrier you used, but, no, I really didn’t have any input. In the old days, when this was a really moving program, they pretty much alternated the SCAs for the orbiters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that 905 was down for a while. Does that present a problem? There were fewer and fewer ferry flights as the program went along because there were more landings out here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a problem when you wanted to take one of these planes and do a ferry flight if it had been sitting for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Any mechanical device likes to be used, and the longer an airplane sits, the more problems you’re going to have with it. So there was a time period where we had to work some bugs out of 905 after sitting for a long time. That’s why we try to exercise these airplanes once every three weeks, to keep them moving and keep all the parts happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any funny stories you can share with us about any ferry flights, that you can put on tape?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00701:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.6, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a problem when you wanted to take one of these planes and do a ferry flight if it had been sitting for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Any mechanical device likes to be used, and the longer an airplane sits, the more problems you’re going to have with it. So there was a time period where we had to work some bugs out of 905 after sitting for a long time. That’s why we try to exercise these airplanes once every three weeks, to keep them moving and keep all the parts happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any funny stories you can share with us about any ferry flights, that you can put on tape?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. Maybe I’ll have a good one after this one, I don’t know. Everything has pretty much been like clockwork. Don does a good job in his planning and stuff, and he does a good leadership role in the ferries. We have so many good inputs. We have really great weather people. We have a weather squadron that does all the launches, and Kathy [Katherine A.] Winters is our primary weather lady. She’s really topnotch. We’ve got really a lot of topnotch people that help us make decisions, and so it’s a lot easier than if we didn’t have these people. I haven’t had any real mechanical issues in flight, haven’t had maybe some of the stuff they’ve had in the past. In the last eight years, we haven’t had many surprises.\\n\\n I’m trying to think. We’ve done multiple flyovers here. That’s always a point of contention with NASA. Now we’re getting to an era where there’s a lot of, in the country, in everything, everybody looks at everything that you do. There’s becoming more and more of that, I think, at NASA, in general, and I think the decision process is more taken out of our hands and giving it to somebody else. But we’re at the end of the program anyway, so I think we’re going to finish up in a good form."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any crew traditions before a ferry flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00002:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 73, "return_to_go": 118.94910427006948, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Good morning, Stephanie, and thank you. I was born in Ironton, Missouri, which is in southeast Missouri, but I grew up near Imperial, which is part of the metropolitan St. Louis area. I attended and graduated from Southeast Missouri State University. I have a bachelor of science degree in geography with an emphasis in history, as well as a minor in aerospace studies. I was commissioned in the Air Force through the ROTC [Reserve Officers’ Training Corps] program, served on active duty about eight years, and then from there went into various roles in the private sector before ending up at NARA in 2004. Along the way, I got my master's in public administration from the University of Oklahoma. “Boomer Sooner!” I always have to say that. That's just an OU thing. I have everything but my dissertation for my PhD in public policy from St. Louis University. I had a variety of things happen that are well beyond the scope of this interview that prevented me from finishing it, but I had everything else finished. I joined NARA in 2004. I was hired to do two basic things: to build the replacement facilities and get everybody and everything moved into those facilities, and then as well to stand up the then very small, fledgling Archival Program. We had 20,000 cubic feet of accessioned Official Military Personnel Files. Those were from Marine Corps and Navy personnel that served in the World War I period, roughly up through 1939. I accomplished both of those things. Before I knew it, it was time for me to retire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That's a lot in a nutshell, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's it. Thanks for playing!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess that's all today, so thank you! Wow! Well, you've got a lot of education under your belt. That's amazing. That's really impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have a minor, you said, in history. Is that what kind of led you to the National Archives or what drew you to the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00002:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.643549936190002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and I want to be clear, too. I had some great people working for me, because there were a lot of people tending the store as I was out doing different things with the moves or with the construction and that. They always had my back. And then I had theirs when it was needed. It was a lot. But that's one of the reasons why it was important for us to have the staff we needed so that we could continue to do the things. I relied heavily on Bill Seibert at the time as the Chief of Archival Ops to kind of keep the archival operation running as needed. When I needed to intervene or something, I was there. It was a team effort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Having the right amount of staff with the right skills is extremely important—kind of lessons learned, in a way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, definitely. Definitely. And thank goodness back in those days, the Human Resources Office was in the same building. They were based in St. Louis, and we could hire people very quickly, typically—nothing like what has been happening in the last 10 years or so. I'm not slamming NARA. That's kind of government wide. It's just an atrocious hiring process because you lose so many good people, potential candidates, because we can't get things done fast enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. It's unfortunate how the government works."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're used to it."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00002:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 25.1594999291, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, definitely. Definitely. And thank goodness back in those days, the Human Resources Office was in the same building. They were based in St. Louis, and we could hire people very quickly, typically—nothing like what has been happening in the last 10 years or so. I'm not slamming NARA. That's kind of government wide. It's just an atrocious hiring process because you lose so many good people, potential candidates, because we can't get things done fast enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. It's unfortunate how the government works."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're used to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about your position as the Access Coordinator for St. Louis and, I think, also a few other locations?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00002:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.14659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess in many ways they were very similar, because I was still part of the leadership team of Research Services. I guess in some ways it became more national in scope because we had more holdings that were personnel files, you know, personal data-related. I became more active in some of the policy aspects for NARA, dealing with those types of records. I was more active with folks from Records Management. When new record collections would come along, we would make sure, \"Oh, is there a personnel—?\" you know, because that's a different criteria under the FOIA exemptions, the [Exemption] (b)(6) for personal data. I worked quite a bit with general counsel, with the FOIA office, quite a bit on different matters of policy or issue and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so it sounds like you're working with a more diverse group of staff within NARA when you became the director of the Personnel Records Division."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, I think that's an accurate conclusion to say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, what do you think about the first reorganization when you became the access coordinator and then the reorganization again in 2020? Were there pros and cons to some of those actions? What did you think about those events?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was rather challenging. And I apologize, Stephanie, because I got a couple of notifications pop up and I didn't hear everything you asked me. Could you repeat that last part?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. I just was curious about what you thought of those reorganizations. The one when you became the access coordinator and then the second one in 2020. What were some of the pros and cons? Are there any lessons learned that you can give us?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00002:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for Research Services. I mean, they still obviously don't have the outreach piece and that, and they've changed things and all that. But at the same time, it's something that we've learned to work with and to make do. And, Stephanie, I have another meeting at the top of the hour that I have to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It popped up, and I apologize, it's having to do with the '73 fire. It was something that that was the only time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm open to continuing this if we need to in a separate conversation. I didn't want to cut you off or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure. Well, let me look to see from my notes what else I would like to cover and then I'll get back to you. How about that? And then if you want to set up another one, then we can."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00002:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It popped up, and I apologize, it's having to do with the '73 fire. It was something that that was the only time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm open to continuing this if we need to in a separate conversation. I didn't want to cut you off or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure. Well, let me look to see from my notes what else I would like to cover and then I'll get back to you. How about that? And then if you want to set up another one, then we can."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that'd be fine. I appreciate it and I apologize. You can blame Meg Philips. I'm kidding!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's quite all right."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00002:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm open to continuing this if we need to in a separate conversation. I didn't want to cut you off or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure. Well, let me look to see from my notes what else I would like to cover and then I'll get back to you. How about that? And then if you want to set up another one, then we can."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that'd be fine. I appreciate it and I apologize. You can blame Meg Philips. I'm kidding!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's quite all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd be happy with any other questions you have or anything. Just let me know. And Wednesdays work well in the mornings because I generally have some time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. All right. Well, hey, I'll let you go then so you can get ready for the next meeting. But I appreciate so much that you set aside time today to talk to me about all of this. It's really interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00002:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that'd be fine. I appreciate it and I apologize. You can blame Meg Philips. I'm kidding!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's quite all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd be happy with any other questions you have or anything. Just let me know. And Wednesdays work well in the mornings because I generally have some time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. All right. Well, hey, I'll let you go then so you can get ready for the next meeting. But I appreciate so much that you set aside time today to talk to me about all of this. It's really interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Thanks, Stephanie. I'll look forward to hearing from you. Thanks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Thank you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.707305835464045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No they did not. The biological isolation garments were passed into the Command Module. The astronauts put those on before they came out of the Command Module. So essentially they were protected, and everyone was happy. They went ahead and went into the Mobile Quarantine Facility in the biological isolation garments. They then took them off once they were inside the MQF."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said they had special suits on that they put on while they were in the Command Module?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes sir."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the violation wasn’t quite—."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, exactly.\n\nThe inside of the Apollo module was covered with fine lunar dust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the Command Module was of more concern rather than the crew from exposure.\n\nComes down to what’s practical and what’s not practical."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.119228706071161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes sir."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the violation wasn’t quite—."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, exactly.\n\nThe inside of the Apollo module was covered with fine lunar dust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the Command Module was of more concern rather than the crew from exposure.\n\nComes down to what’s practical and what’s not practical."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA then, as Don alluded to earlier, began actually building the LRL. I’m not going to go into any of that. But we were concerned about the 21 days that was established here after exposure of the host. The 21 days actually started on the Moon as soon as they lifted off, so we were in a countdown from that point on. They were back to the lab within three days I believe of the actual landing on the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gary, what was the quarantine time in the MQF?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.085467538359458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, exactly.\n\nThe inside of the Apollo module was covered with fine lunar dust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the Command Module was of more concern rather than the crew from exposure.\n\nComes down to what’s practical and what’s not practical."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA then, as Don alluded to earlier, began actually building the LRL. I’m not going to go into any of that. But we were concerned about the 21 days that was established here after exposure of the host. The 21 days actually started on the Moon as soon as they lifted off, so we were in a countdown from that point on. They were back to the lab within three days I believe of the actual landing on the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gary, what was the quarantine time in the MQF?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whatever it took to get from the recovery ship back to the LRL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was part of the 21 days or was it 21 days in addition?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:20", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.043787084394392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA then, as Don alluded to earlier, began actually building the LRL. I’m not going to go into any of that. But we were concerned about the 21 days that was established here after exposure of the host. The 21 days actually started on the Moon as soon as they lifted off, so we were in a countdown from that point on. They were back to the lab within three days I believe of the actual landing on the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gary, what was the quarantine time in the MQF?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whatever it took to get from the recovery ship back to the LRL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was part of the 21 days or was it 21 days in addition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, 21 days started on the Moon. It lasted through the quarantine period in the LRL.\n\nBut I think that was really only one of the requirements, because another requirement—and this was a little bit of an issue—was that the biological testing had to demonstrate no deleterious effect and then the quarantine had to be officially released. The astronauts early on were concerned about that. So it was more than just an arbitrary 21 days, correct?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. There was lots of consternation and they didn’t like being isolated that long."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:22", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5393382072641284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whatever it took to get from the recovery ship back to the LRL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was part of the 21 days or was it 21 days in addition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, 21 days started on the Moon. It lasted through the quarantine period in the LRL.\n\nBut I think that was really only one of the requirements, because another requirement—and this was a little bit of an issue—was that the biological testing had to demonstrate no deleterious effect and then the quarantine had to be officially released. The astronauts early on were concerned about that. So it was more than just an arbitrary 21 days, correct?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. There was lots of consternation and they didn’t like being isolated that long."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you were under a lot of pressure in the biological testing to get a yes or no.\n\nAbsolutely. I’ll get into that in the fourth part of this. We did have intensive medical examinations of the flight crew members during the quarantine to make sure that they were not affected at all. We also had primary contacts that would be protected in the event that they came in touch with the crew members while they were in isolation.\\n\\n Start of quarantine. We’ve already talked to the MQF, so here’s a picture of it. As Don said, it’s a modified Airstream trailer. There’s Neil [A. Armstrong] doing his ukulele inside the MQF. We did have special sample return containers for the lunar soil. We had two of those for each of the missions that were returned. Then special containers as I said for the medical lunar samples, films and data tapes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Question on those containers. How many of those retained a good seal as opposed to having air leak in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:44", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.993900332375024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Command Module?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Command Module. We had propellant on there, we’re trying to get it off. I know we stayed on the ship and we decontaminated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was brought back to the LRL and had a separate room for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Until it was proven it was safe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The hatch was closed?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:46", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.024539448826435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was brought back to the LRL and had a separate room for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Until it was proven it was safe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The hatch was closed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was part of the crew quarantine area.\n\nPart of the Crew Reception Area at LRL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were very interested in getting that hardware looked at, the spacecraft hardware, to be sure that we didn’t have any issues."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:48", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.58282160980715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The hatch was closed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was part of the crew quarantine area.\n\nPart of the Crew Reception Area at LRL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were very interested in getting that hardware looked at, the spacecraft hardware, to be sure that we didn’t have any issues."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they didn’t let you get to it. It’s even worse than that. We had two or three air locks. They were rooms that went between the inside and the outside so you had the pressure gradient across there. They were bathed in ultraviolet light. To take anything in, you could use them. If you had to have any kind of repair work done and you needed a maintenance person, you did not tell them when they brought their tools in they couldn’t take them back out again, and that didn’t make some of them happy. Now the way you got things out if you needed it out was there was a big dunk tank of peracetic acid, I think it was. You had to dunk the item in peracetic acid, and you better be darn sure it would take that kind of treatment for a period of time. So we had these so-called barrier crossing modes like that. But they had rules as to how you could use them.\n\nKeep in mind we also had the yellow tape too in the air locks.\n\nAnd Shell No-Pest strips hanging from the ceiling because flies and other flying insects didn’t realize they weren’t supposed to fly in and back out.\n\nI had a standing joke with Buzz Aldrin the last 30 years or so about watching the roaches come across the floor and crossing that yellow tape during the night. Oh boy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the interesting things is how did we get our data out? We were generating data on the inside and we wanted to get it out."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.219989516854051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they didn’t let you get to it. It’s even worse than that. We had two or three air locks. They were rooms that went between the inside and the outside so you had the pressure gradient across there. They were bathed in ultraviolet light. To take anything in, you could use them. If you had to have any kind of repair work done and you needed a maintenance person, you did not tell them when they brought their tools in they couldn’t take them back out again, and that didn’t make some of them happy. Now the way you got things out if you needed it out was there was a big dunk tank of peracetic acid, I think it was. You had to dunk the item in peracetic acid, and you better be darn sure it would take that kind of treatment for a period of time. So we had these so-called barrier crossing modes like that. But they had rules as to how you could use them.\n\nKeep in mind we also had the yellow tape too in the air locks.\n\nAnd Shell No-Pest strips hanging from the ceiling because flies and other flying insects didn’t realize they weren’t supposed to fly in and back out.\n\nI had a standing joke with Buzz Aldrin the last 30 years or so about watching the roaches come across the floor and crossing that yellow tape during the night. Oh boy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the interesting things is how did we get our data out? We were generating data on the inside and we wanted to get it out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before computers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a Xerox machine that was designed especially such that the imaging part of it was behind the quarantine barrier. You placed your data on this, and you hoped somebody would be on the other side of the quarantine barrier. You’d beat on the window or call on the telephone. “Would you come and please push the print button on the outside.” So they would come and push the button on the outside and scan your image behind the quarantine barrier, put your product on the outside."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Think how much easier we can do that today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is before computers and wireless systems of data. It just didn’t exist."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.13332168539339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before computers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a Xerox machine that was designed especially such that the imaging part of it was behind the quarantine barrier. You placed your data on this, and you hoped somebody would be on the other side of the quarantine barrier. You’d beat on the window or call on the telephone. “Would you come and please push the print button on the outside.” So they would come and push the button on the outside and scan your image behind the quarantine barrier, put your product on the outside."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Think how much easier we can do that today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is before computers and wireless systems of data. It just didn’t exist."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that was ever documented in the literature.\n\nI think it was put in after Apollo 11.\n\nWas it?\n\nYeah I think so. We realized we needed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m still a little bit curious about what happened to the spacecraft. Now you guys are saying the hatch stayed closed that long?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:60", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.920624425229978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Think how much easier we can do that today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is before computers and wireless systems of data. It just didn’t exist."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that was ever documented in the literature.\n\nI think it was put in after Apollo 11.\n\nWas it?\n\nYeah I think so. We realized we needed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m still a little bit curious about what happened to the spacecraft. Now you guys are saying the hatch stayed closed that long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They closed the hatch. They brought the spacecraft to a special room with a big roll-up door. They put it in there, sealed the door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they bring it to 31?."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.467360472477752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that was ever documented in the literature.\n\nI think it was put in after Apollo 11.\n\nWas it?\n\nYeah I think so. We realized we needed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m still a little bit curious about what happened to the spacecraft. Now you guys are saying the hatch stayed closed that long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They closed the hatch. They brought the spacecraft to a special room with a big roll-up door. They put it in there, sealed the door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they bring it to 31?."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Building] 37.\n\n37. There was a special room on the back side at a lower elevation. Later on they built big freezers in there.\n\nHere, let me go back to that chart.\n\nThere also was a special door for the Mobile Quarantine Facility to be mated against the building and the door opened, and it was left there too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So help me understand, did we bring it there before we decontaminated the bi-props [propellants] off of that Command Module? I don’t think so."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.185956080530836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They closed the hatch. They brought the spacecraft to a special room with a big roll-up door. They put it in there, sealed the door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they bring it to 31?."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Building] 37.\n\n37. There was a special room on the back side at a lower elevation. Later on they built big freezers in there.\n\nHere, let me go back to that chart.\n\nThere also was a special door for the Mobile Quarantine Facility to be mated against the building and the door opened, and it was left there too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So help me understand, did we bring it there before we decontaminated the bi-props [propellants] off of that Command Module? I don’t think so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know about that. But we did not open the door again I know, so it was not decontaminated on the inside [of the LRL]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Decontamination was done on the ship. Once it was put in the LRL it didn’t come out until it was released. Nobody did anything to it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.98439564503426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Building] 37.\n\n37. There was a special room on the back side at a lower elevation. Later on they built big freezers in there.\n\nHere, let me go back to that chart.\n\nThere also was a special door for the Mobile Quarantine Facility to be mated against the building and the door opened, and it was left there too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So help me understand, did we bring it there before we decontaminated the bi-props [propellants] off of that Command Module? I don’t think so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know about that. But we did not open the door again I know, so it was not decontaminated on the inside [of the LRL]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Decontamination was done on the ship. Once it was put in the LRL it didn’t come out until it was released. Nobody did anything to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chet, the location of that special room is right there at the end of that arrow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember the Command Module showing up, but you’re right, decontamination, most of it occurred on the ship. Then later we started doing it in San Diego [California]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.669952873846725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know about that. But we did not open the door again I know, so it was not decontaminated on the inside [of the LRL]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Decontamination was done on the ship. Once it was put in the LRL it didn’t come out until it was released. Nobody did anything to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chet, the location of that special room is right there at the end of that arrow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember the Command Module showing up, but you’re right, decontamination, most of it occurred on the ship. Then later we started doing it in San Diego [California]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the fuel was an issue I recall. I don’t know what they did with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fuel was always an issue. Okay, I’m sorry, but I was just curious."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.14945524533158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chet, the location of that special room is right there at the end of that arrow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember the Command Module showing up, but you’re right, decontamination, most of it occurred on the ship. Then later we started doing it in San Diego [California]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the fuel was an issue I recall. I don’t know what they did with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fuel was always an issue. Okay, I’m sorry, but I was just curious."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s okay, we’re encouraging everybody to ask questions.\n\nAnecdotes sometimes give you a better feel for what happened.\n\nOkay. Basically the results were finally determined and we saw no reason to question the fact that we did not find any microorganisms or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just had a question. Apollo 11 came back during hurricane season here in Houston. Were there any logistics made in case a hurricane was coming that you would evacuate the crew? Where would you take them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 36.00477803807304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the fuel was an issue I recall. I don’t know what they did with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fuel was always an issue. Okay, I’m sorry, but I was just curious."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s okay, we’re encouraging everybody to ask questions.\n\nAnecdotes sometimes give you a better feel for what happened.\n\nOkay. Basically the results were finally determined and we saw no reason to question the fact that we did not find any microorganisms or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just had a question. Apollo 11 came back during hurricane season here in Houston. Were there any logistics made in case a hurricane was coming that you would evacuate the crew? Where would you take them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think hurricanes were nearly as much concern in those years as they’ve been recently. I don’t know why, because [Hurricane] Carla was not that long before.\n\nYeah, right, ’61.\n\nBy the way, the whole JSC area was flooded in Carla, because I had a fellow working in my lab that lived in Texas City during Carla. He came down the freeway before they closed it. He said nothing but the freeway was dry land then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was all ranchland at that time. There weren’t any facilities here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 53.08926152529771, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Defense Department was more worried about whether we would be annihilated by the Russians versus some of these species coming back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those of us who were not in the quarantine weren’t concerned about that decision. We were happy to get all of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On clearance from the quarantine. How many different organizations were involved? You mentioned something about 120 some PIs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s after the quarantine was lifted. The ICBC I guess had the final write-off.\n\nICBC was the final authority. Well, I say final authority. It went all the way up to Sam [Samuel C.] Phillips, the program manager for the Apollo program, to approve everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But all the work though was done within the lab here. None of the samples were sent out to be analyzed or be assessed."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:136", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The lunar material?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The lunar materials. Is that still true?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, most of the long term storage are of course out near White Sands [New Mexico]. For some of the more diverse or interesting samples, a subsample was taken with the intent of keeping it very long term and not using it short term for analysis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the San Antonio [Texas] stuff went to White Sands eventually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it went there. We even had storage in Building 1 early on, a place in one of the secure rooms up there, to store materials temporarily. Before Apollo 11, we had given almost no thought to what happens when the preliminary exam is over and the quarantine lifts. We were more unprepared for that in many ways than we were for the Apollo 11 sample return."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are the long term samples being stored in nitrogen?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00042:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, most of the long term storage are of course out near White Sands [New Mexico]. For some of the more diverse or interesting samples, a subsample was taken with the intent of keeping it very long term and not using it short term for analysis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the San Antonio [Texas] stuff went to White Sands eventually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it went there. We even had storage in Building 1 early on, a place in one of the secure rooms up there, to store materials temporarily. Before Apollo 11, we had given almost no thought to what happens when the preliminary exam is over and the quarantine lifts. We were more unprepared for that in many ways than we were for the Apollo 11 sample return."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are the long term samples being stored in nitrogen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s in nitrogen. The cabinets don’t have gloves on them. They’re sealed in such a way that you can purge them with nitrogen and basically turn the nitrogen flow off, or very very low. They’re just like a vacuum-sealed container on your grocer’s shelf. We go into there very seldom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s see. I think this was an outstanding session. So I thank all you guys for coming and Don and Gary."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:0", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 13.923982436613006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Used to be Waldren. I always had to spell that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll keep this on for a little while. Today is April 10th, 2018. My name is Harry E. Bennett and I am interviewing Amy Amessoudji, who was a Peace Corps volunteer in, well, she was a Peace Corps volunteer in Guinea 1995 to 1997. And then she served in Togo in the Peace Corps Crisis Corps in 2001 to 2002. So we'll get the. She was in a health and community development program and then in her Crisis Corps, she was a technical adviser in HIV AIDS capacity. So we'll start the interview today by Amy, introduce yourself and maybe tell us a little bit about where you come from and just your family life, early family life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Hello, I'm Amy Amessoudji. I, uh. So starting at the beginning, I grew up in Madison, Wisconsin, and I have circled around. That's where we are now today. I went to school at the University of Wisconsin here in Madison and studied the easiest thing I could think of, French and Spanish, for me that was my go-to subject, and got some great jobs in offices answering phone calls and taking minutes and was very quickly frustrated with my major. Not wanting to teach, I didn't know what I wanted to do with my languages so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us a little bit about your family? Did you come from a large family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two of us. My sister and I, and my parents who divorced when I was in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess we come to the most common question in these interviews is why did you join the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:2", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.693313818458896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Hello, I'm Amy Amessoudji. I, uh. So starting at the beginning, I grew up in Madison, Wisconsin, and I have circled around. That's where we are now today. I went to school at the University of Wisconsin here in Madison and studied the easiest thing I could think of, French and Spanish, for me that was my go-to subject, and got some great jobs in offices answering phone calls and taking minutes and was very quickly frustrated with my major. Not wanting to teach, I didn't know what I wanted to do with my languages so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us a little bit about your family? Did you come from a large family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two of us. My sister and I, and my parents who divorced when I was in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess we come to the most common question in these interviews is why did you join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I wanted to join the Peace Corps. I had been an exchange student in high school to Mexico, to a small village, and loved that. And as part of my French major in college, I did the junior year abroad and loved that. I lived in Aix-en-Provence in France. And as I mentioned, I was totally frustrated with my options of being a French and Spanish major just working in offices, and I found myself volunteering for hospice programs and translating for Spanish speaking patients and loved that. And I decided that I should probably join the Peace Corps in the Caribbean. So I applied and chose the Caribbean for my zone and was offered West Africa instead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, how did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:4", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.54812646495433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two of us. My sister and I, and my parents who divorced when I was in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess we come to the most common question in these interviews is why did you join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I wanted to join the Peace Corps. I had been an exchange student in high school to Mexico, to a small village, and loved that. And as part of my French major in college, I did the junior year abroad and loved that. I lived in Aix-en-Provence in France. And as I mentioned, I was totally frustrated with my options of being a French and Spanish major just working in offices, and I found myself volunteering for hospice programs and translating for Spanish speaking patients and loved that. And I decided that I should probably join the Peace Corps in the Caribbean. So I applied and chose the Caribbean for my zone and was offered West Africa instead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, how did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I grew up in Madison. I've always known about it. We didn't have close friends who had been Peace Corps volunteers. But it was something that I always. I don't know. I would just always highly regarded Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your parents, either of your parents, ever talk about it or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:6", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.497918294393699, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I wanted to join the Peace Corps. I had been an exchange student in high school to Mexico, to a small village, and loved that. And as part of my French major in college, I did the junior year abroad and loved that. I lived in Aix-en-Provence in France. And as I mentioned, I was totally frustrated with my options of being a French and Spanish major just working in offices, and I found myself volunteering for hospice programs and translating for Spanish speaking patients and loved that. And I decided that I should probably join the Peace Corps in the Caribbean. So I applied and chose the Caribbean for my zone and was offered West Africa instead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, how did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I grew up in Madison. I've always known about it. We didn't have close friends who had been Peace Corps volunteers. But it was something that I always. I don't know. I would just always highly regarded Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your parents, either of your parents, ever talk about it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no. They, when I joined, um, my father was enthusiastic, and my mother forbid me to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was. I was going to ask that, how that, how that went over on the, with the family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:8", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.553242549326333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I grew up in Madison. I've always known about it. We didn't have close friends who had been Peace Corps volunteers. But it was something that I always. I don't know. I would just always highly regarded Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your parents, either of your parents, ever talk about it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no. They, when I joined, um, my father was enthusiastic, and my mother forbid me to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was. I was going to ask that, how that, how that went over on the, with the family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was over her dead body. I was sorry about that, but I went and she survived just fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, um, like was it a, was it a a process of quite a time that you were thinking about it, or did it happen fairly quickly?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:10", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.503602832584814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no. They, when I joined, um, my father was enthusiastic, and my mother forbid me to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was. I was going to ask that, how that, how that went over on the, with the family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was over her dead body. I was sorry about that, but I went and she survived just fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, um, like was it a, was it a a process of quite a time that you were thinking about it, or did it happen fairly quickly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It happened fairly quickly. I had been out of college and working for a few years and once I decided that that would be something I was interested in, I applied and I interviewed pretty quickly and was offered a post also within. I would say it took about six months before I put everything in storage and sold my car and took off. Bought a nice big backpack slash duffel bag, that ended up not being as useful as I thought it would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did you, what kind of, what was the time period in from like, you know, the initial application to the time that you went?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:12", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.226225369538682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was over her dead body. I was sorry about that, but I went and she survived just fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, um, like was it a, was it a a process of quite a time that you were thinking about it, or did it happen fairly quickly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It happened fairly quickly. I had been out of college and working for a few years and once I decided that that would be something I was interested in, I applied and I interviewed pretty quickly and was offered a post also within. I would say it took about six months before I put everything in storage and sold my car and took off. Bought a nice big backpack slash duffel bag, that ended up not being as useful as I thought it would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did you, what kind of, what was the time period in from like, you know, the initial application to the time that you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was about six months. Uh, might have been a couple of months longer. I mean, the application process took me, you know, maybe a couple of days to fill out the paper forms way back when. I didn't have an email address, you know, nobody used emails before I left. When I came back, they did. I needed a tutorial for what I missed. And faxed it into Peace Corps and they called me on a landline telephone pretty quickly, maybe within a couple of days, and I had a couple of phone interviews and then I was sent my paperwork and said yes to the very first offer. I was ready."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So Caribbean was your request, but you were. You weren't particular when it came down time to go."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:14", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.029139299487424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It happened fairly quickly. I had been out of college and working for a few years and once I decided that that would be something I was interested in, I applied and I interviewed pretty quickly and was offered a post also within. I would say it took about six months before I put everything in storage and sold my car and took off. Bought a nice big backpack slash duffel bag, that ended up not being as useful as I thought it would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did you, what kind of, what was the time period in from like, you know, the initial application to the time that you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was about six months. Uh, might have been a couple of months longer. I mean, the application process took me, you know, maybe a couple of days to fill out the paper forms way back when. I didn't have an email address, you know, nobody used emails before I left. When I came back, they did. I needed a tutorial for what I missed. And faxed it into Peace Corps and they called me on a landline telephone pretty quickly, maybe within a couple of days, and I had a couple of phone interviews and then I was sent my paperwork and said yes to the very first offer. I was ready."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So Caribbean was your request, but you were. You weren't particular when it came down time to go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I love the beach. I thought, oh yeah, I'll be perfect in the Caribbean. They needed me somewhere else. And I was quick to say, great. Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, how did your, outside of your family, your friends and oh, you know, associates that you had, how did they react to that news you were going to the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:16", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.92126588831936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was about six months. Uh, might have been a couple of months longer. I mean, the application process took me, you know, maybe a couple of days to fill out the paper forms way back when. I didn't have an email address, you know, nobody used emails before I left. When I came back, they did. I needed a tutorial for what I missed. And faxed it into Peace Corps and they called me on a landline telephone pretty quickly, maybe within a couple of days, and I had a couple of phone interviews and then I was sent my paperwork and said yes to the very first offer. I was ready."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So Caribbean was your request, but you were. You weren't particular when it came down time to go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I love the beach. I thought, oh yeah, I'll be perfect in the Caribbean. They needed me somewhere else. And I was quick to say, great. Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, how did your, outside of your family, your friends and oh, you know, associates that you had, how did they react to that news you were going to the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My friends were pretty excited about it. Yeah, it was. I had a. I had to break up with my boyfriend to go. He was not happy about it. Yeah. That was too much to ask, to come and visit or be a long- distance relationship. And yeah, so that's not really where I wanted to go. Is there any editing allowed in these interviews?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, I mean that's."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:20", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.013908504097975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My friends were pretty excited about it. Yeah, it was. I had a. I had to break up with my boyfriend to go. He was not happy about it. Yeah. That was too much to ask, to come and visit or be a long- distance relationship. And yeah, so that's not really where I wanted to go. Is there any editing allowed in these interviews?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, I mean that's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was tough. I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. I knew that I needed to make that change and it was kind of a harsh way to do it but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you, would you almost describe it at a certain point it almost became a calling?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:24", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.597417906293794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. I knew that I needed to make that change and it was kind of a harsh way to do it but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you, would you almost describe it at a certain point it almost became a calling?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, sometimes you have to delay a side."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:26", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.997131006993104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, sometimes you have to delay a side."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, it was a very strong feeling that that was where I should go and where I needed to be. And two years is not a very long time, and it's how I was looking at it. And so I thought that a relationship could start again, stop again, you know, if it was the right thing. Two years is not too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've, you've been accepted to the Peace Corps and you've got your site, I mean your country, that you're going to. Did you? You knew the program you were recruited into, that what you were going to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:28", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 15.552367785547894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, sometimes you have to delay a side."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, it was a very strong feeling that that was where I should go and where I needed to be. And two years is not a very long time, and it's how I was looking at it. And so I thought that a relationship could start again, stop again, you know, if it was the right thing. Two years is not too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've, you've been accepted to the Peace Corps and you've got your site, I mean your country, that you're going to. Did you? You knew the program you were recruited into, that what you were going to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I knew the name of it. I didn't know a lot about public health or about community development before I had my trainings. I knew that I loved working with the patients that I had in the nursing homes, and health care was also kind of a new area for me and, uh, and as you said, like a calling. So it felt right. It sounded right, what I knew about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe the, you know, because there was. The different eras of Peace Corps had different training and, you know, where you embarked from. You live in Madison. So where did you go initially and then what was the, what? What went on between Madison and getting finally to Africa or to Guinea?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:30", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.502630872830993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, it was a very strong feeling that that was where I should go and where I needed to be. And two years is not a very long time, and it's how I was looking at it. And so I thought that a relationship could start again, stop again, you know, if it was the right thing. Two years is not too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've, you've been accepted to the Peace Corps and you've got your site, I mean your country, that you're going to. Did you? You knew the program you were recruited into, that what you were going to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I knew the name of it. I didn't know a lot about public health or about community development before I had my trainings. I knew that I loved working with the patients that I had in the nursing homes, and health care was also kind of a new area for me and, uh, and as you said, like a calling. So it felt right. It sounded right, what I knew about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe the, you know, because there was. The different eras of Peace Corps had different training and, you know, where you embarked from. You live in Madison. So where did you go initially and then what was the, what? What went on between Madison and getting finally to Africa or to Guinea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Philadelphia and met from all of our cities in the U.S. We all met and came together and did some icebreaking, I think, activities. Tried to learn each other's names and got a lot of shots and did a lot of paperwork and got our tickets to fly from. I mean, I guess it was Philly to New York and then to Dakar in Senegal. We did our training in Senegal in a former military camp called Chess [Thiès] because it was close enough to Guinea, easier to, logistically I guess, I'm not sure why they did that, but that was standard for Guinea volunteers at that time. We learned local language and our, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, speaking of language. Now Guinea, its national language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:32", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.558478747589993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I knew the name of it. I didn't know a lot about public health or about community development before I had my trainings. I knew that I loved working with the patients that I had in the nursing homes, and health care was also kind of a new area for me and, uh, and as you said, like a calling. So it felt right. It sounded right, what I knew about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe the, you know, because there was. The different eras of Peace Corps had different training and, you know, where you embarked from. You live in Madison. So where did you go initially and then what was the, what? What went on between Madison and getting finally to Africa or to Guinea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Philadelphia and met from all of our cities in the U.S. We all met and came together and did some icebreaking, I think, activities. Tried to learn each other's names and got a lot of shots and did a lot of paperwork and got our tickets to fly from. I mean, I guess it was Philly to New York and then to Dakar in Senegal. We did our training in Senegal in a former military camp called Chess [Thiès] because it was close enough to Guinea, easier to, logistically I guess, I'm not sure why they did that, but that was standard for Guinea volunteers at that time. We learned local language and our, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, speaking of language. Now Guinea, its national language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "French.\n\nThen what was your, what was your native language or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:34", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.620531941766657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Philadelphia and met from all of our cities in the U.S. We all met and came together and did some icebreaking, I think, activities. Tried to learn each other's names and got a lot of shots and did a lot of paperwork and got our tickets to fly from. I mean, I guess it was Philly to New York and then to Dakar in Senegal. We did our training in Senegal in a former military camp called Chess [Thiès] because it was close enough to Guinea, easier to, logistically I guess, I'm not sure why they did that, but that was standard for Guinea volunteers at that time. We learned local language and our, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, speaking of language. Now Guinea, its national language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "French.\n\nThen what was your, what was your native language or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the local language that I learned was Maninka. Um. And in my village that was one of three main languages that were spoken, but I was only able to learn one very well. You know, how is your family? How's your home? How's your health? We made homemade dictionaries and notebooks. You know, clinic equals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the, were the instructors native speakers from Guinea?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:36", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.689479935296285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "French.\n\nThen what was your, what was your native language or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the local language that I learned was Maninka. Um. And in my village that was one of three main languages that were spoken, but I was only able to learn one very well. You know, how is your family? How's your home? How's your health? We made homemade dictionaries and notebooks. You know, clinic equals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the, were the instructors native speakers from Guinea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. They had great instructors. Some of the volunteers were learning French and so they had less time that they were able to spend learning their, the local language. So my French major helped me for the first time in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're in Senegal. Are you, are you in host family stays or are you in a dormitory or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:38", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.654977705884761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the local language that I learned was Maninka. Um. And in my village that was one of three main languages that were spoken, but I was only able to learn one very well. You know, how is your family? How's your home? How's your health? We made homemade dictionaries and notebooks. You know, clinic equals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the, were the instructors native speakers from Guinea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. They had great instructors. Some of the volunteers were learning French and so they had less time that they were able to spend learning their, the local language. So my French major helped me for the first time in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're in Senegal. Are you, are you in host family stays or are you in a dormitory or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were in army barracks in a camp with a cafeteria and a, uh, yeah, separate buildings and a big compound with a concrete wall around it. And yeah, we, um, we didn't really, we didn't have a host family. We didn't have a homestay during that training. I know that some volunteers do. After we finished in Senegal, we went to another training center in Guinea. Uh, we flew from Dakar to Conakry, and then we drove up into the mountains to Mamou. It was called Mamou in Guinea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so that's how you transitioned from Senegal to Guinea was you flew there. And then had you been assigned your sites while you were still in Senegal, or did they, did they wait till they got you in country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:40", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.39441967320529, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. They had great instructors. Some of the volunteers were learning French and so they had less time that they were able to spend learning their, the local language. So my French major helped me for the first time in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're in Senegal. Are you, are you in host family stays or are you in a dormitory or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were in army barracks in a camp with a cafeteria and a, uh, yeah, separate buildings and a big compound with a concrete wall around it. And yeah, we, um, we didn't really, we didn't have a host family. We didn't have a homestay during that training. I know that some volunteers do. After we finished in Senegal, we went to another training center in Guinea. Uh, we flew from Dakar to Conakry, and then we drove up into the mountains to Mamou. It was called Mamou in Guinea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so that's how you transitioned from Senegal to Guinea was you flew there. And then had you been assigned your sites while you were still in Senegal, or did they, did they wait till they got you in country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, we had been assigned our region when we were in Senegal. We may have been assigned our sites. I'm not, I'm not sure if it happened there or if it happened in Mamou, but I knew that I was assigned to the forest region, which was a rainforest in the south of Guinea, kind of bordering with Liberia and Sierra Leone and Ivory Coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So overall, I mean, did you feel that your, the training that you got in the language, the local language? Did it, did you feel prepared or at least ready to go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:44", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.906690954574432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, we had been assigned our region when we were in Senegal. We may have been assigned our sites. I'm not, I'm not sure if it happened there or if it happened in Mamou, but I knew that I was assigned to the forest region, which was a rainforest in the south of Guinea, kind of bordering with Liberia and Sierra Leone and Ivory Coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So overall, I mean, did you feel that your, the training that you got in the language, the local language? Did it, did you feel prepared or at least ready to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if we stuck to the script, I had a few really good greetings. I felt like I was ready to learn more of it. Like I had kind of figured out some of the key words and cultural elements, of course. Long greetings, long handshakes. And repetitive greetings, like that was all new. And so I felt like we had a good starting point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Um, I guess. So you're, you go into Guinea. What were your, what were your first impressions when you, when you got into the country that you were going to serve in? Because you've been in Africa for, and we didn't really know the time period. How long were you in Senegal in the training mode before that you were shifted to, you know, into Guinea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, it was a couple of months. Uh, we were there. We were very acclimated by the time we left. We had some. Our stomachs had adjusted. We finished getting our shots or we had some good clothes made. We had our training and our specialties completed. So it was a couple of months. I didn't, uh. It's been a little while but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when that training ended."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:46", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.674101060638258, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if we stuck to the script, I had a few really good greetings. I felt like I was ready to learn more of it. Like I had kind of figured out some of the key words and cultural elements, of course. Long greetings, long handshakes. And repetitive greetings, like that was all new. And so I felt like we had a good starting point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Um, I guess. So you're, you go into Guinea. What were your, what were your first impressions when you, when you got into the country that you were going to serve in? Because you've been in Africa for, and we didn't really know the time period. How long were you in Senegal in the training mode before that you were shifted to, you know, into Guinea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, it was a couple of months. Uh, we were there. We were very acclimated by the time we left. We had some. Our stomachs had adjusted. We finished getting our shots or we had some good clothes made. We had our training and our specialties completed. So it was a couple of months. I didn't, uh. It's been a little while but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when that training ended."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there, was there any more training once you got into Guinea or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:48", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 8.526778956264732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, it was a couple of months. Uh, we were there. We were very acclimated by the time we left. We had some. Our stomachs had adjusted. We finished getting our shots or we had some good clothes made. We had our training and our specialties completed. So it was a couple of months. I didn't, uh. It's been a little while but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when that training ended."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there, was there any more training once you got into Guinea or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went, you went to another training in country then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9186432847385912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there, was there any more training once you got into Guinea or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went, you went to another training in country then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. And when we flew in it was. By the time we started driving to the second, to the training center in Guinea, it was nighttime. And I remember kind of being packed into the back of Land Cruisers. And the second year volunteers had packed lunches, sandwiches for us, in little brown paper bags. It was really sweet. And driving in the pitch black on really, really bumpy roads with. When we would come through a town, there was no electricity. We would just see little glowing dots on the side of the road, which were little kerosene, tiny open cans lit on tables with people selling stuff like bags of peanuts or bouillon cubes. And so that was pretty remarkable, that night drive. Senegal had a lot of electricity and it was pretty well developed. So that was a big difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're, you're in the country. And were you in, like the capital of the country, the capital of Guinea or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.837831215726656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. And when we flew in it was. By the time we started driving to the second, to the training center in Guinea, it was nighttime. And I remember kind of being packed into the back of Land Cruisers. And the second year volunteers had packed lunches, sandwiches for us, in little brown paper bags. It was really sweet. And driving in the pitch black on really, really bumpy roads with. When we would come through a town, there was no electricity. We would just see little glowing dots on the side of the road, which were little kerosene, tiny open cans lit on tables with people selling stuff like bags of peanuts or bouillon cubes. And so that was pretty remarkable, that night drive. Senegal had a lot of electricity and it was pretty well developed. So that was a big difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're, you're in the country. And were you in, like the capital of the country, the capital of Guinea or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, we flew in through the capital of Guinea, Conakry, but we quickly drove out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Into a mountain training. It was like a hotel. It was really nice and it was cool compared to the desert of Senegal. That was pretty nice relief. And we finished our training there and then we're sent off in taxis to our regions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And how long was that? The training at the hotel facility?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.738063229292167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Into a mountain training. It was like a hotel. It was really nice and it was cool compared to the desert of Senegal. That was pretty nice relief. And we finished our training there and then we're sent off in taxis to our regions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And how long was that? The training at the hotel facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a shorter time. That was maybe a couple of weeks. We had our swearing in ceremony there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Guinea at that time, did they have a large contingent of Peace Corps volunteers in country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.849460776903909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Guinea at that time, did they have a large contingent of Peace Corps volunteers in country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. They had, um, I don't know how many they had. They had a group that were selected to represent their generation at each of our training places. So we got to know volunteers from our assigned region before we went. And, uh. So I haven't done my homework. I don't know. I don't know how many there were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember how many we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just an interesting, I mean, something that I'm always interested in was what was the age distribution in your group that you went?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:64", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.499400863226565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. They had, um, I don't know how many they had. They had a group that were selected to represent their generation at each of our training places. So we got to know volunteers from our assigned region before we went. And, uh. So I haven't done my homework. I don't know. I don't know how many there were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember how many we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just an interesting, I mean, something that I'm always interested in was what was the age distribution in your group that you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was one of the older volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. And you were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:66", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.110445403585072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember how many we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just an interesting, I mean, something that I'm always interested in was what was the age distribution in your group that you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was one of the older volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. And you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 25."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "25, so it was a young."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:68", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.67827267065008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was one of the older volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. And you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 25."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "25, so it was a young."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a very young group. Yes. Fresh out of college, very healthy. Like we were screened for, I think it was if you can tolerate sulfur drugs, then you got sent to Guinea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any older, older volunteers in the, older than 26 or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.309191856277867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 25."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "25, so it was a young."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a very young group. Yes. Fresh out of college, very healthy. Like we were screened for, I think it was if you can tolerate sulfur drugs, then you got sent to Guinea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any older, older volunteers in the, older than 26 or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not in my training group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in the?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.010213173642073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a very young group. Yes. Fresh out of college, very healthy. Like we were screened for, I think it was if you can tolerate sulfur drugs, then you got sent to Guinea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any older, older volunteers in the, older than 26 or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not in my training group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In country?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In country in the service."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.678014637380081, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not in my training group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In country?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In country in the service."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. I, there may have been a few years older, but by and large we were a very young group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in that, in the hotel situation. Did you get your the, like for the public health, were you trained in what you were, what you were going to be doing or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.420016263755645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In country?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In country in the service."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. I, there may have been a few years older, but by and large we were a very young group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in that, in the hotel situation. Did you get your the, like for the public health, were you trained in what you were, what you were going to be doing or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was, that was when you got down into that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.24446251528405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. I, there may have been a few years older, but by and large we were a very young group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in that, in the hotel situation. Did you get your the, like for the public health, were you trained in what you were, what you were going to be doing or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was, that was when you got down into that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we also had a lot of training in Senegal. How to do health education sessions, what it's like working in the clinics in Guinea, overviews of the health system. Um, a lot of. And we did have some practice sessions with people in the neighborhood without having home stays. We did have interaction with community members and learning how to be, how to do our work in the village. And so we had, in Mamou, we had a chance to interface with Guinea agencies, so they sent representatives to train us in programs that they had going on in the clinics where we would be assigned to. And we learned how to write grants and project management. We learned about community development in both places but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, okay. You know, prior to going to your site, were you ever, did you ever meet like your counterpart or the person that you would be directly working under? Or was there, was there even a person like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.160513905871166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was, that was when you got down into that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we also had a lot of training in Senegal. How to do health education sessions, what it's like working in the clinics in Guinea, overviews of the health system. Um, a lot of. And we did have some practice sessions with people in the neighborhood without having home stays. We did have interaction with community members and learning how to be, how to do our work in the village. And so we had, in Mamou, we had a chance to interface with Guinea agencies, so they sent representatives to train us in programs that they had going on in the clinics where we would be assigned to. And we learned how to write grants and project management. We learned about community development in both places but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, okay. You know, prior to going to your site, were you ever, did you ever meet like your counterpart or the person that you would be directly working under? Or was there, was there even a person like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. Nah, eventually there was, there were people that I worked with, but I really kind of found them once I was living there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I think we've got you to the point where you've been trained and you know where you're going. So you go. How did Peace Corps prepare you? I mean, did they have housing arranged for you or did you have to go find your own housing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:84", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.840140624532303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. Nah, eventually there was, there were people that I worked with, but I really kind of found them once I was living there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I think we've got you to the point where you've been trained and you know where you're going. So you go. How did Peace Corps prepare you? I mean, did they have housing arranged for you or did you have to go find your own housing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of the volunteers had housing. Their villages had provided housing for them. When we got to my village, we. Like I said, we took taxis to get down to the forest region. It was a little bit of a drive. And so we were installed by other volunteers. And by the time we got to our regional capital and then up, we dropped everybody off on the way. And then I was the last one. And the, first the road was just blown out in so many places. So it was really hard traveling to get there. And so it took about a week of driving, spending the night in a regional house, driving, spending the night in a regional house, and then getting past the blown out roads to get to my site. And they said, no, there's no house free. We don't need a volunteer. That was the first interaction I had with the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a week, a week of travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about a week before I had that meeting. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it just the slowness of the transport? I mean, it just took."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:92", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.377138583344465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to get those locally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a stove. Did you have a cooking facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had, yeah. In the regional capital, I bought a lot of things like sheets and a water filter and some buckets and kind of figured out after I was installed how to make that work. You pour the water in the top one and you cut a hole in the bottom of the bucket and stick your filter in there. And anyway, so, uh, and the stove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of water, where was your water source in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a pump located very close to, uh, I guess in city blocks here, it was about two blocks away, through my neighbor's courtyard and down a path behind another, uh, cluster of houses compound. And it was a really beautiful pump. The water in Guinea was fantastic. I never got sick from that water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so you, but you would filter your water?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:94", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.196820648160516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had, yeah. In the regional capital, I bought a lot of things like sheets and a water filter and some buckets and kind of figured out after I was installed how to make that work. You pour the water in the top one and you cut a hole in the bottom of the bucket and stick your filter in there. And anyway, so, uh, and the stove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of water, where was your water source in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a pump located very close to, uh, I guess in city blocks here, it was about two blocks away, through my neighbor's courtyard and down a path behind another, uh, cluster of houses compound. And it was a really beautiful pump. The water in Guinea was fantastic. I never got sick from that water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so you, but you would filter your water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would filter it anyway for drinking. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you're in, you're in your village, you're in your house and you go to work. What was that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:96", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.996467386845018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a pump located very close to, uh, I guess in city blocks here, it was about two blocks away, through my neighbor's courtyard and down a path behind another, uh, cluster of houses compound. And it was a really beautiful pump. The water in Guinea was fantastic. I never got sick from that water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so you, but you would filter your water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would filter it anyway for drinking. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you're in, you're in your village, you're in your house and you go to work. What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, it was funny because I had been already a professional for so many years, so my concept of going to work was pretty established. You show up at certain times and there's certain etiquette and you have assignments and you need to be efficient and accomplish a lot. And my work in the beginning entailed of going to the clinic and hanging out, learning everyone's names, or trying to figuring out what people were interested in. Practicing hello, how are you, over and over and over in the different languages. Until I found the health center director at that time was, um, interested in doing some educational seminars. And so then that was, I guess that was my first project that we embarked on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe a little bit of what's the, was it a clinic? And so it was, it had medical personnel doing services or medical work. And then you were the public or the public health or education person?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:98", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.884963763161132, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would filter it anyway for drinking. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you're in, you're in your village, you're in your house and you go to work. What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, it was funny because I had been already a professional for so many years, so my concept of going to work was pretty established. You show up at certain times and there's certain etiquette and you have assignments and you need to be efficient and accomplish a lot. And my work in the beginning entailed of going to the clinic and hanging out, learning everyone's names, or trying to figuring out what people were interested in. Practicing hello, how are you, over and over and over in the different languages. Until I found the health center director at that time was, um, interested in doing some educational seminars. And so then that was, I guess that was my first project that we embarked on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe a little bit of what's the, was it a clinic? And so it was, it had medical personnel doing services or medical work. And then you were the public or the public health or education person?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And that took some time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had anyone done that before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:102", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.734523164396458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And that took some time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had anyone done that before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I was the first Peace Corps volunteer in their village that they didn't think they needed. Oh no, it's not true. There was a girl who had gone and left quickly. I don't know if she spent a night or a week. So they were a little bit, I think that they were a little bit traumatized from that, but it had been a few years. And so I was there and they didn't know how to work with me. I didn't know how to represent myself right away. Through kind of establishing relationships then we kind of figured out how we how we can work together. And it was a, one, two, three, four room clinic with, uh, what are those called? Bricks with holes in them for the windows, the, uh, for the air to circulate and shutters on them. And it had a metal tin roof that was very loud when the rainy season.\n\nThere was a nice big courtyard and the director of the clinic lived right next to the clinic. It was really hard for him to take a nap. People would come with their emergencies, you know, air quotes, emergencies. So the one of the rooms was a birthing and delivery room. The other was the prenatal exam room. There was a tiny laboratory that was, um, hardly ever used. There was a microscope with a, with a mirror on it. You could tilt toward the window and reflect light onto the slides for stool samples. And we had a chart with pictures of parasites for diagnosing. And there was the doctor's consulting office and the pharmacy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, when you say, doctor, was he an itinerant or was he in this in the clinic every day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was the clinic director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So you had a doctor on site."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:106", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.783361931353653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was the clinic director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So you had a doctor on site."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, uh, they called them a doctor. And I don't think they were an MD. I think they were trained in health care and could diagnose a lot of illnesses. And they followed an organigram diagram. If this is the symptom, then kind of like in the Where There Is No Doctor book. I followed those diagrams a lot and so, yeah. So it was highly functional when that director was there. It was. Well, like I described, it was a pretty remote location. And so government officials tended to be located there as a punishment. So we had a lot of turnovers. And as people could get out, they would. So he left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your impression of like the, just the general health of the people, of the village? Were they, did they have a lot of problems or were they fairly healthy, a fairly healthy population?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had a lot of, a lot of diseases that should have been managed, but it was a very poor area and so there was a lot that was related to malnutrition. There's a lot of diseases like, I mean, so much malaria, so many, um, diarrheal diseases. So many, you know, bloated malnourished children with scabies and, you know, a lot of rashes, a lot of snake bites. And in harvest, a lot of machete cuts. And, um, what was another? But also just so many pregnant women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you say harvest. So it was a, it was an agricultural area of? What kind of crops were they growing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:110", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.312792507844016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had a lot of, a lot of diseases that should have been managed, but it was a very poor area and so there was a lot that was related to malnutrition. There's a lot of diseases like, I mean, so much malaria, so many, um, diarrheal diseases. So many, you know, bloated malnourished children with scabies and, you know, a lot of rashes, a lot of snake bites. And in harvest, a lot of machete cuts. And, um, what was another? But also just so many pregnant women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you say harvest. So it was a, it was an agricultural area of? What kind of crops were they growing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cassava, oranges. A lot of peanuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it, was it primarily for the local, the local consumption? I mean, was that, they farmed for their own food source and not, they didn't? Did they have an agriculture of commodities that they sold or they sent out of the village?\n\nThe roads were just so terrible, uh. Since that wasn't my area. I know, I know it's your area. And you probably would have been into it more, and maybe now going back I would be. But from what I understood about it, we had a big market day in our village and people would come from the smaller districts, uh, and the roads were just so terrible. I remember riding, we were assigned mountain bikes. So when I would ride my mountain bike out to the districts to do rounds, I would see rotten bananas and plantains piled up in cars that were in washed out roads. And so it was really hard for people to get their crops in time. But there was corn. So I'm sure that the crops that they could dry and milk got.\n\nSo they, well, what was the population of the village? Was it a large, fairly? You say you had district towns or smaller."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:112", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.791991675382238, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cassava, oranges. A lot of peanuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it, was it primarily for the local, the local consumption? I mean, was that, they farmed for their own food source and not, they didn't? Did they have an agriculture of commodities that they sold or they sent out of the village?\n\nThe roads were just so terrible, uh. Since that wasn't my area. I know, I know it's your area. And you probably would have been into it more, and maybe now going back I would be. But from what I understood about it, we had a big market day in our village and people would come from the smaller districts, uh, and the roads were just so terrible. I remember riding, we were assigned mountain bikes. So when I would ride my mountain bike out to the districts to do rounds, I would see rotten bananas and plantains piled up in cars that were in washed out roads. And so it was really hard for people to get their crops in time. But there was corn. So I'm sure that the crops that they could dry and milk got.\n\nSo they, well, what was the population of the village? Was it a large, fairly? You say you had district towns or smaller."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in. But then you were saying there was a teacher, another Peace Corps volunteer, and he was in a larger. So what do you? Was it thousands of people or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:114", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 16.435546305980264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cassava, oranges. A lot of peanuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it, was it primarily for the local, the local consumption? I mean, was that, they farmed for their own food source and not, they didn't? Did they have an agriculture of commodities that they sold or they sent out of the village?\n\nThe roads were just so terrible, uh. Since that wasn't my area. I know, I know it's your area. And you probably would have been into it more, and maybe now going back I would be. But from what I understood about it, we had a big market day in our village and people would come from the smaller districts, uh, and the roads were just so terrible. I remember riding, we were assigned mountain bikes. So when I would ride my mountain bike out to the districts to do rounds, I would see rotten bananas and plantains piled up in cars that were in washed out roads. And so it was really hard for people to get their crops in time. But there was corn. So I'm sure that the crops that they could dry and milk got.\n\nSo they, well, what was the population of the village? Was it a large, fairly? You say you had district towns or smaller."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in. But then you were saying there was a teacher, another Peace Corps volunteer, and he was in a larger. So what do you? Was it thousands of people or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it was about ten. Maybe it was 10,000 people in my village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So pretty good sized."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:118", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.179686797506498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it was about ten. Maybe it was 10,000 people in my village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So pretty good sized."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty good size. It was a kind of a bridge town. So there were, there was a good population of Liberian refugees. There were Fula families. There were Forest. They called, we call them Forests so who spoke Guerze and Kpelle, kind of more like native from the region. And there were a lot of Maninka speakers. And so with the Liberians there was some English, a little bit of English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some French. A lot of people who had gone to school learned French, but I would say it was primarily Maninka."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe like an average day, you know, just a day of work and kind of what you'd. What time did you start?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:120", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.866318663896109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty good size. It was a kind of a bridge town. So there were, there was a good population of Liberian refugees. There were Fula families. There were Forest. They called, we call them Forests so who spoke Guerze and Kpelle, kind of more like native from the region. And there were a lot of Maninka speakers. And so with the Liberians there was some English, a little bit of English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some French. A lot of people who had gone to school learned French, but I would say it was primarily Maninka."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe like an average day, you know, just a day of work and kind of what you'd. What time did you start?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. So. Um. Let's see. So I would wake up pretty early, the sun would start to get hot, and my, I had a foam mattress that got really, really uncomfortable, so I didn't really sleep in. The morning was good. Maybe five-ish I would start hearing. My house was an office. So it was in a kind of a larger building that had a wall that divided my section from a family in the front section, and they had three, or three wives and nine children. And so I would hear the kids wake up and I could smell the smoke from the fire and we would start shuffling around and go to get our water. Uh, yeah.\n\nI had a jerry can. I would go and I would fill maybe one a day and, um, get my coffee boiling. And so, I mean, it was, uh, I don't know, I guess maybe an hour and a half morning preparation time. Uh, I had the luxury of having an indoor shower section, which was a slanted floor that went out a hole that snakes kept coming into. So I put screen over it. So it was a mixed blessing that I had that room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it water piped in to the shower or did you have to bring water?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:122", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.629242959884566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some French. A lot of people who had gone to school learned French, but I would say it was primarily Maninka."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe like an average day, you know, just a day of work and kind of what you'd. What time did you start?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. So. Um. Let's see. So I would wake up pretty early, the sun would start to get hot, and my, I had a foam mattress that got really, really uncomfortable, so I didn't really sleep in. The morning was good. Maybe five-ish I would start hearing. My house was an office. So it was in a kind of a larger building that had a wall that divided my section from a family in the front section, and they had three, or three wives and nine children. And so I would hear the kids wake up and I could smell the smoke from the fire and we would start shuffling around and go to get our water. Uh, yeah.\n\nI had a jerry can. I would go and I would fill maybe one a day and, um, get my coffee boiling. And so, I mean, it was, uh, I don't know, I guess maybe an hour and a half morning preparation time. Uh, I had the luxury of having an indoor shower section, which was a slanted floor that went out a hole that snakes kept coming into. So I put screen over it. So it was a mixed blessing that I had that room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it water piped in to the shower or did you have to bring water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was bucket baths."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bucket baths. But you did have a floor that you could drain water out of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:126", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.41881846899329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was bucket baths."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bucket baths. But you did have a floor that you could drain water out of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a floor that the water would roll, roll down because it was slanted. So that was a luxury. And then I would walk. Typically, I walked down the, we laughed and called it the international highway. We were right on the road. It was not paved and it was full of a lot of pits and ditches and with water streaming over it. So I kind of went back and forth between taking my shoes off to wade through. Sometimes there would be logs crisscrossing that we could tiptoe over. Eventually, I just wore flip flops for everything and to the clinic. If there was something going on, usually I was on call for labor and delivery when they were shorthanded, which was always. They always needed someone on hand, especially around the full moon, and especially if it was at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were, so you were actually kind of assisting in labor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The midwives, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And had you ever had any experience in that, part of the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:130", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.159035146905294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The midwives, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And had you ever had any experience in that, part of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did not. We did some training on things in general that you will probably be asked to do and common practices. And so we had a little bit of training for that. And then the, there was a school down the road. A primary and secondary school. The highest grade was eighth grade. And they were interested in learning English. And so I taught greetings and Bob Marley lyrics, fun stuff over at the school, at the different, different grade levels. And I started rotating a health topic in and I would do the circuit of oral rehydration fluids at different learning levels in all the classrooms.\n\nEach quarter I ended up doing lesson plans for the refugee school, which was younger kids, and so it was mostly songs in English or skits. And for adult education, we would have people come to the clinic for vaccine days. Or whenever I had a captive audience, I would pull out my curriculum, do a felt storyboard or something. And I would take my take my topic on the road. But so English classes really helped me kind of get started doing the teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got, I mean, we've covered your work day kind of. So how about leisure time? I mean, your time off, what did you, how did you fill that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And like after work and weekends or days off."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:134", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.36917919371024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And like after work and weekends or days off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. So the workday was divided up. We had long siesta time when the sun was unbearable and you probably wouldn't get much done anyway if you kept at it. But so, and I did a lot of running, uh, trail running. People just got used to me, like at first it was a little bit surprising and I would get all of the \"where's the fire\" jokes? And eventually it was just pretty normal. There goes the white lady jogging. So I would do evening trails, and in the dry season, I had to cover my face with a bandanna for the dust. And when I rode along, the, when I ran along the highway, trucks would come by and just cover me like it was. It would be an easy animation to do, you know, before and after the truck, just like head to toe the same color as the earth.\n\nAnd I did a lot of traveling on time off. I would catch rides with rice distribution trucks that were empty, UNHCR or, uh. Or if I could get a taxi, I would take a taxi. But by the time I would arrive to the regional capital, I guess it was about 90 kilometers away. But it would take most of the day stopping and pushing out of the mud and picking up other passengers. I would just be all the color of dirt from head to toe. There was a little shower in the Peace Corps house in the regional capital that had a trickle of water that would come out of it. And I would just walk straight in with my shoes, with my clothes, and just like let it run over me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You say regional. That was, it was where volunteers from that region, they would. Was that like for weekend or when you had time off you could go in and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When we needed to go for projects, for telephone, for trainings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have no phone in your village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.394048387296592, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When we needed to go for projects, for telephone, for trainings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have no phone in your village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No phone, no radio. There was a Doctors Without Borders house in the city nearest me, I guess I would say, where the other volunteer was located, in the prefecture in Beyla. And so we did our community map in the beginning, and that was like, where's the nearest radio? And that was about all the exposure I had to it. I knew that it was there. I had some kind of communication that if I ever needed to use it, I could. But we never, I never did. I drew a map of the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're talking radio, a two way that could transmit out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was your like your emergency."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:140", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.993387096996213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No phone, no radio. There was a Doctors Without Borders house in the city nearest me, I guess I would say, where the other volunteer was located, in the prefecture in Beyla. And so we did our community map in the beginning, and that was like, where's the nearest radio? And that was about all the exposure I had to it. I knew that it was there. I had some kind of communication that if I ever needed to use it, I could. But we never, I never did. I drew a map of the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're talking radio, a two way that could transmit out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was your like your emergency."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my emergency connection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Never needed it. That was good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:142", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.659318996662459, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was your like your emergency."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my emergency connection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Never needed it. That was good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and I guess that was covered. The interaction that you would have with other volunteers occurred in the. Were you, okay, were you ever, the whole, all of the Peace Corps volunteers serving in Guinea, where they ever called in for like in-services or anything like that? And now that was, that was in the city that you were in, that took forever to get to your village. So how would you do that or how frequently would that be?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:144", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.065909996291621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my emergency connection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Never needed it. That was good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and I guess that was covered. The interaction that you would have with other volunteers occurred in the. Were you, okay, were you ever, the whole, all of the Peace Corps volunteers serving in Guinea, where they ever called in for like in-services or anything like that? And now that was, that was in the city that you were in, that took forever to get to your village. So how would you do that or how frequently would that be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That happened a couple of times. We had in-service in the capital and we would fly. There was an old Russian, old fleet of Russian airplanes where everything was written in Russian, all the exit instructions and everything, and you'd take off and the compartments would flap. You know, they were, they were a retired fleet, maybe resurrected for the forest. So it was a muddy runway that we had. So we would fly in and out of the regional capital, Nzérékoré, to Conakry. And, um, we were. We had a training. We were evacuated for, there was a coup d'état when we were there and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long after you initially arrived in the village did that happen?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:146", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.406566662546246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and I guess that was covered. The interaction that you would have with other volunteers occurred in the. Were you, okay, were you ever, the whole, all of the Peace Corps volunteers serving in Guinea, where they ever called in for like in-services or anything like that? And now that was, that was in the city that you were in, that took forever to get to your village. So how would you do that or how frequently would that be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That happened a couple of times. We had in-service in the capital and we would fly. There was an old Russian, old fleet of Russian airplanes where everything was written in Russian, all the exit instructions and everything, and you'd take off and the compartments would flap. You know, they were, they were a retired fleet, maybe resurrected for the forest. So it was a muddy runway that we had. So we would fly in and out of the regional capital, Nzérékoré, to Conakry. And, um, we were. We had a training. We were evacuated for, there was a coup d'état when we were there and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long after you initially arrived in the village did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, I think it was after a year. We were very well established. And it was fortunately occurred around the time of a scheduled in-service. So volunteers were making their way to the capital already. And so we just went on lockdown at the Peace Corps house in the capital. And some of the volunteers were sent out to like the ambassador's house or other houses where they had room because we were pretty packed in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they got everyone, everyone into the capital and then they just waited it out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:148", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.785074069495829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That happened a couple of times. We had in-service in the capital and we would fly. There was an old Russian, old fleet of Russian airplanes where everything was written in Russian, all the exit instructions and everything, and you'd take off and the compartments would flap. You know, they were, they were a retired fleet, maybe resurrected for the forest. So it was a muddy runway that we had. So we would fly in and out of the regional capital, Nzérékoré, to Conakry. And, um, we were. We had a training. We were evacuated for, there was a coup d'état when we were there and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long after you initially arrived in the village did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, I think it was after a year. We were very well established. And it was fortunately occurred around the time of a scheduled in-service. So volunteers were making their way to the capital already. And so we just went on lockdown at the Peace Corps house in the capital. And some of the volunteers were sent out to like the ambassador's house or other houses where they had room because we were pretty packed in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they got everyone, everyone into the capital and then they just waited it out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that occurrence?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:150", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0945267438842543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, I think it was after a year. We were very well established. And it was fortunately occurred around the time of a scheduled in-service. So volunteers were making their way to the capital already. And so we just went on lockdown at the Peace Corps house in the capital. And some of the volunteers were sent out to like the ambassador's house or other houses where they had room because we were pretty packed in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they got everyone, everyone into the capital and then they just waited it out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that occurrence?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that took about a week. We, um. The military hadn't been paid. Uh. We. I know one day that I did hear gunshots near the house, but we were protected. There were, uh, we weren't a target by any means. We were provided, uh, MR, what are they called, MREs? The military salty meals, the dehydrated awful things. We were throwing brownies over the wall and trading them for mangoes from our neighbor's trees. They liked some of our stuff, and we all in the neighborhood, we'd go up to the roof sometimes to peek around. And everyone around us was pretty much holed up for that time. And then it was over and we went back to our sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, did you communicate with back home? Well, and on that same topic, how did you communicate, just through the letters written?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:152", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4383630487602823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that occurrence?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that took about a week. We, um. The military hadn't been paid. Uh. We. I know one day that I did hear gunshots near the house, but we were protected. There were, uh, we weren't a target by any means. We were provided, uh, MR, what are they called, MREs? The military salty meals, the dehydrated awful things. We were throwing brownies over the wall and trading them for mangoes from our neighbor's trees. They liked some of our stuff, and we all in the neighborhood, we'd go up to the roof sometimes to peek around. And everyone around us was pretty much holed up for that time. And then it was over and we went back to our sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, did you communicate with back home? Well, and on that same topic, how did you communicate, just through the letters written?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Written letters, and we would do phone calls sometimes. It was kind of a process. We would just dedicate the day to trying to have a phone call. And the lines were not reliable. So I would go to phone center and get in line, give them the number that I would like to call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was this in the prefecture?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:154", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8204033875114245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that took about a week. We, um. The military hadn't been paid. Uh. We. I know one day that I did hear gunshots near the house, but we were protected. There were, uh, we weren't a target by any means. We were provided, uh, MR, what are they called, MREs? The military salty meals, the dehydrated awful things. We were throwing brownies over the wall and trading them for mangoes from our neighbor's trees. They liked some of our stuff, and we all in the neighborhood, we'd go up to the roof sometimes to peek around. And everyone around us was pretty much holed up for that time. And then it was over and we went back to our sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, did you communicate with back home? Well, and on that same topic, how did you communicate, just through the letters written?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Written letters, and we would do phone calls sometimes. It was kind of a process. We would just dedicate the day to trying to have a phone call. And the lines were not reliable. So I would go to phone center and get in line, give them the number that I would like to call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was this in the prefecture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The city or the?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:158", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.716547391989413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The city or the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's how I did it in the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The capital."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right. You just had a radio in the."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:160", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.240608213321569, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's how I did it in the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The capital."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right. You just had a radio in the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the, in my village there was a, there was a radio in the prefecture. There was. We would write letters and hand them to taxis in my village, and then they would hand them to someone in the village where you were mailing it to. And then, so that was fun. You'd be walking along and someone would say, oh, here's a letter. Like someone handed it to me to hand to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how, and then coming back, I mean, mail from the States. Did you, how did that come to you? Did the taxi drivers deliver the mail?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:162", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.822898014801743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right. You just had a radio in the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the, in my village there was a, there was a radio in the prefecture. There was. We would write letters and hand them to taxis in my village, and then they would hand them to someone in the village where you were mailing it to. And then, so that was fun. You'd be walking along and someone would say, oh, here's a letter. Like someone handed it to me to hand to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how, and then coming back, I mean, mail from the States. Did you, how did that come to you? Did the taxi drivers deliver the mail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, Peace Corps managed that. So it would come to the capital house. They would send it out in their vehicles when they would go visit areas or if someone was traveling back to their regional capital. But that's where we get it, at the regional capital or in Conakry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for your family back here in Madison, what how much time would pass between them writing to you and then you being able to respond, I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:164", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.469886683113048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the, in my village there was a, there was a radio in the prefecture. There was. We would write letters and hand them to taxis in my village, and then they would hand them to someone in the village where you were mailing it to. And then, so that was fun. You'd be walking along and someone would say, oh, here's a letter. Like someone handed it to me to hand to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how, and then coming back, I mean, mail from the States. Did you, how did that come to you? Did the taxi drivers deliver the mail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, Peace Corps managed that. So it would come to the capital house. They would send it out in their vehicles when they would go visit areas or if someone was traveling back to their regional capital. But that's where we get it, at the regional capital or in Conakry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for your family back here in Madison, what how much time would pass between them writing to you and then you being able to respond, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm just curious. Was it weeks or a matter of days or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:166", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.188762981236719, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, Peace Corps managed that. So it would come to the capital house. They would send it out in their vehicles when they would go visit areas or if someone was traveling back to their regional capital. But that's where we get it, at the regional capital or in Conakry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for your family back here in Madison, what how much time would pass between them writing to you and then you being able to respond, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm just curious. Was it weeks or a matter of days or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, and over time, it just gets so frustrating. We weren't trying to answer each other's questions really. It was just reflections and news updates is what it turned out to be. And, uh, maybe once a month or longer I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well. And then on the same vein, did any family members come to visit you? Did you have anyone or friends or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:170", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.640448124983603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, and over time, it just gets so frustrating. We weren't trying to answer each other's questions really. It was just reflections and news updates is what it turned out to be. And, uh, maybe once a month or longer I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well. And then on the same vein, did any family members come to visit you? Did you have anyone or friends or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't have visitors. There was my father and his father did meet me on vacation in The Gambia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was, that was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that in your first year or second year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:174", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.198084104918028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was, that was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that in your first year or second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in my second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Second year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, that was, that was fun. But no one came to my village. It was, um, it was too, I think, far from medical care for them to feel comfortable to visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, um, and I guess. Normally, you know, your year, your first year is adjustment. Your second year is a rush to do those things that you wanted. How was your second year of service, did it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:176", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.886760116575587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in my second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Second year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, that was, that was fun. But no one came to my village. It was, um, it was too, I think, far from medical care for them to feel comfortable to visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, um, and I guess. Normally, you know, your year, your first year is adjustment. Your second year is a rush to do those things that you wanted. How was your second year of service, did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well. My second year of service, I had a different health care director and I, who was very, very difficult to work with and kind of scary. And so he was a violent person. And I just stopped hanging out in the clinic. I still worked with the midwives sometimes, but I focused primarily on community development and public health education. So I was in the schools and we did community events, but my construction projects were not done when I was free to go. So and I had this feeling that maybe they would never finish if I did leave. And so I stuck around for a few more months until the fall and we had buildings inaugurated and people were trained."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was a, was it a Peace Corps extension? I mean, an official extension of service? I mean, you were able to extend?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:178", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.651955685083985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, that was, that was fun. But no one came to my village. It was, um, it was too, I think, far from medical care for them to feel comfortable to visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, um, and I guess. Normally, you know, your year, your first year is adjustment. Your second year is a rush to do those things that you wanted. How was your second year of service, did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well. My second year of service, I had a different health care director and I, who was very, very difficult to work with and kind of scary. And so he was a violent person. And I just stopped hanging out in the clinic. I still worked with the midwives sometimes, but I focused primarily on community development and public health education. So I was in the schools and we did community events, but my construction projects were not done when I was free to go. So and I had this feeling that maybe they would never finish if I did leave. And so I stuck around for a few more months until the fall and we had buildings inaugurated and people were trained."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was a, was it a Peace Corps extension? I mean, an official extension of service? I mean, you were able to extend?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was unofficial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was an unofficial extension, because I know there was, there were designations that some did that and then others were able to get an extra year or."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:180", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.50217298342665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well. My second year of service, I had a different health care director and I, who was very, very difficult to work with and kind of scary. And so he was a violent person. And I just stopped hanging out in the clinic. I still worked with the midwives sometimes, but I focused primarily on community development and public health education. So I was in the schools and we did community events, but my construction projects were not done when I was free to go. So and I had this feeling that maybe they would never finish if I did leave. And so I stuck around for a few more months until the fall and we had buildings inaugurated and people were trained."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was a, was it a Peace Corps extension? I mean, an official extension of service? I mean, you were able to extend?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was unofficial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was an unofficial extension, because I know there was, there were designations that some did that and then others were able to get an extra year or."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There were some people who did extend for a year, but I just hung around for an extra period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that, you know, you have the formal COS [close of service]. Did that just, you just waited your COS for a period of time or were you already officially parted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:182", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.335747759362945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was unofficial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was an unofficial extension, because I know there was, there were designations that some did that and then others were able to get an extra year or."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There were some people who did extend for a year, but I just hung around for an extra period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that, you know, you have the formal COS [close of service]. Did that just, you just waited your COS for a period of time or were you already officially parted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I must have just waited. I don't remember how that, how I worked that out, but I mean we did have, all together we had a COS conference out on an island off of the capital. And then after that, I went back to my site and finished up. And then I went back up to the capital. Uh. Yeah. And it was rainy season by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you. You didn't, uh, you know, there's the option. Did you take the immediate flight home from the country or did you travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:184", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.039719732625494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There were some people who did extend for a year, but I just hung around for an extra period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that, you know, you have the formal COS [close of service]. Did that just, you just waited your COS for a period of time or were you already officially parted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I must have just waited. I don't remember how that, how I worked that out, but I mean we did have, all together we had a COS conference out on an island off of the capital. And then after that, I went back to my site and finished up. And then I went back up to the capital. Uh. Yeah. And it was rainy season by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you. You didn't, uh, you know, there's the option. Did you take the immediate flight home from the country or did you travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I traveled. My, uh, so my father had visited in The Gambia and my mother retired when I COSed. So I traded my ticket home to a flight to Kenya. And we met in Kenya and went on a safari. And then we came home. This is kind of the slow way through Europe and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With your mother?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:186", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.821910814028326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I must have just waited. I don't remember how that, how I worked that out, but I mean we did have, all together we had a COS conference out on an island off of the capital. And then after that, I went back to my site and finished up. And then I went back up to the capital. Uh. Yeah. And it was rainy season by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you. You didn't, uh, you know, there's the option. Did you take the immediate flight home from the country or did you travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I traveled. My, uh, so my father had visited in The Gambia and my mother retired when I COSed. So I traded my ticket home to a flight to Kenya. And we met in Kenya and went on a safari. And then we came home. This is kind of the slow way through Europe and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With your mother?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With my mother and with her husband. And that was, they're adjusting to being retired and my adjusting to being retired, I guess, COS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So apparently your mother had come to accept and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:188", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.69101201558703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I traveled. My, uh, so my father had visited in The Gambia and my mother retired when I COSed. So I traded my ticket home to a flight to Kenya. And we met in Kenya and went on a safari. And then we came home. This is kind of the slow way through Europe and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With your mother?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With my mother and with her husband. And that was, they're adjusting to being retired and my adjusting to being retired, I guess, COS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So apparently your mother had come to accept and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did she come to value the experience, your experience I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:190", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.656680017318921, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With my mother and with her husband. And that was, they're adjusting to being retired and my adjusting to being retired, I guess, COS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So apparently your mother had come to accept and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did she come to value the experience, your experience I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She, and she has. I think mostly she was relieved that I had survived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Of course."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:192", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.3963111303543565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did she come to value the experience, your experience I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She, and she has. I think mostly she was relieved that I had survived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but she had focused on Africa since I was there. We lived in New Orleans before I left and she was in New Orleans there. And so the Audubon Zoo has had travel packages. And when she saw something in Africa, you know, she started to focus on that for her retirement exit strategy. So that was, that was really nice to be able to spend some time with her. It's very different in East Africa, but it's still sunny and beautiful so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the, you know, the end of service, of course, as that comes. Did you have, were you putting together, you know, what's next while you were still serving in the Peace Corps? But did you have ideas of what you were going to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:194", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.1070123670603955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She, and she has. I think mostly she was relieved that I had survived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but she had focused on Africa since I was there. We lived in New Orleans before I left and she was in New Orleans there. And so the Audubon Zoo has had travel packages. And when she saw something in Africa, you know, she started to focus on that for her retirement exit strategy. So that was, that was really nice to be able to spend some time with her. It's very different in East Africa, but it's still sunny and beautiful so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the, you know, the end of service, of course, as that comes. Did you have, were you putting together, you know, what's next while you were still serving in the Peace Corps? But did you have ideas of what you were going to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I wanted to go to medical school. I figured if I could do some of the things that I did for two full years, then I could definitely do medical school. That was, that had seemed so hard to me before, but, um, yeah. So I started going to school to do my, because I had only studied French and Spanish. I didn't have any science prerequisites or anything. It was kind of a crazy idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is when you come back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:196", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.896680407844884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but she had focused on Africa since I was there. We lived in New Orleans before I left and she was in New Orleans there. And so the Audubon Zoo has had travel packages. And when she saw something in Africa, you know, she started to focus on that for her retirement exit strategy. So that was, that was really nice to be able to spend some time with her. It's very different in East Africa, but it's still sunny and beautiful so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the, you know, the end of service, of course, as that comes. Did you have, were you putting together, you know, what's next while you were still serving in the Peace Corps? But did you have ideas of what you were going to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I wanted to go to medical school. I figured if I could do some of the things that I did for two full years, then I could definitely do medical school. That was, that had seemed so hard to me before, but, um, yeah. So I started going to school to do my, because I had only studied French and Spanish. I didn't have any science prerequisites or anything. It was kind of a crazy idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is when you come back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I came back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did come back to Madison?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:198", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.774089342049871, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I wanted to go to medical school. I figured if I could do some of the things that I did for two full years, then I could definitely do medical school. That was, that had seemed so hard to me before, but, um, yeah. So I started going to school to do my, because I had only studied French and Spanish. I didn't have any science prerequisites or anything. It was kind of a crazy idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is when you come back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I came back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did come back to Madison?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To New Orleans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To New Orleans. Okay. That's where your mother lived."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:202", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.721097953147988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To New Orleans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To New Orleans. Okay. That's where your mother lived."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And that's where I had been living before I before I went to serve. And so I did my prerequisites and I had appendicitis pretty quickly after I came home. When I finally was able to communicate with someone from my village, they weren't surprised at all. They said, oh, it was all the rocks in the rice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had a long recovery time and started working in the Charity Hospital emergency room in New Orleans there when I was taking my prerequisites for medical school and started to learn about research and I, uh, by the time I was accepted to medical school, I didn't want to go anymore. I had seen a lot of that culture close up and had different ideas by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you have, uh, I know you went, you recently went back to Africa to Rwanda."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:204", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.801219947942208, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And that's where I had been living before I before I went to serve. And so I did my prerequisites and I had appendicitis pretty quickly after I came home. When I finally was able to communicate with someone from my village, they weren't surprised at all. They said, oh, it was all the rocks in the rice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had a long recovery time and started working in the Charity Hospital emergency room in New Orleans there when I was taking my prerequisites for medical school and started to learn about research and I, uh, by the time I was accepted to medical school, I didn't want to go anymore. I had seen a lot of that culture close up and had different ideas by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you have, uh, I know you went, you recently went back to Africa to Rwanda."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have relationships or contacts with people still from your village that are ongoing or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:206", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.556911053269119, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had a long recovery time and started working in the Charity Hospital emergency room in New Orleans there when I was taking my prerequisites for medical school and started to learn about research and I, uh, by the time I was accepted to medical school, I didn't want to go anymore. I had seen a lot of that culture close up and had different ideas by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you have, uh, I know you went, you recently went back to Africa to Rwanda."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have relationships or contacts with people still from your village that are ongoing or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we didn't have email. There was Internet was not available for public access really until partway through my service. And so I couldn't exchange email accounts with my villagers. And however, when Facebook started and I started making connections with people, one of my students, one of my former students who had grown up and was working for the US, on a USDA project, was really connected on social media and we found each other. And so through him, I've been able to kind of send messages to people, but I really don't, don't have good relationships with anyone.\n\nI was able to work with him. One of the happiest experiences I think of my life, one of the most satisfying outcomes of Peace Corps, is when Ebola hit our area. He was able to write some grants that I was able to help translate and get funded to do some outreach events in my village and in Guinea. That was really fantastic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that would have been in like just the last three or four years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:208", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.285456725854577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have relationships or contacts with people still from your village that are ongoing or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we didn't have email. There was Internet was not available for public access really until partway through my service. And so I couldn't exchange email accounts with my villagers. And however, when Facebook started and I started making connections with people, one of my students, one of my former students who had grown up and was working for the US, on a USDA project, was really connected on social media and we found each other. And so through him, I've been able to kind of send messages to people, but I really don't, don't have good relationships with anyone.\n\nI was able to work with him. One of the happiest experiences I think of my life, one of the most satisfying outcomes of Peace Corps, is when Ebola hit our area. He was able to write some grants that I was able to help translate and get funded to do some outreach events in my village and in Guinea. That was really fantastic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that would have been in like just the last three or four years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And he had been on one of my projects and he learned how to write grants in my little living room in a group of his peers. And they wrote a beautiful project and came up with their 25 percent contribution pretty handily. And, uh, and then he ended up using that for his career. It's something that makes me so happy to know, that he's been able to do so many great projects in his life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, okay, we. You left the, left Africa in '97. And then you were in New Orleans. And then you see that you went to Togo."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:210", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.094951917616196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we didn't have email. There was Internet was not available for public access really until partway through my service. And so I couldn't exchange email accounts with my villagers. And however, when Facebook started and I started making connections with people, one of my students, one of my former students who had grown up and was working for the US, on a USDA project, was really connected on social media and we found each other. And so through him, I've been able to kind of send messages to people, but I really don't, don't have good relationships with anyone.\n\nI was able to work with him. One of the happiest experiences I think of my life, one of the most satisfying outcomes of Peace Corps, is when Ebola hit our area. He was able to write some grants that I was able to help translate and get funded to do some outreach events in my village and in Guinea. That was really fantastic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that would have been in like just the last three or four years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And he had been on one of my projects and he learned how to write grants in my little living room in a group of his peers. And they wrote a beautiful project and came up with their 25 percent contribution pretty handily. And, uh, and then he ended up using that for his career. It's something that makes me so happy to know, that he's been able to do so many great projects in his life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, okay, we. You left the, left Africa in '97. And then you were in New Orleans. And then you see that you went to Togo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 2001. Um. Was that. So you're not going to medical school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:212", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.994391019573552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And he had been on one of my projects and he learned how to write grants in my little living room in a group of his peers. And they wrote a beautiful project and came up with their 25 percent contribution pretty handily. And, uh, and then he ended up using that for his career. It's something that makes me so happy to know, that he's been able to do so many great projects in his life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, okay, we. You left the, left Africa in '97. And then you were in New Orleans. And then you see that you went to Togo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 2001. Um. Was that. So you're not going to medical school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you decided to go back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:218", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.93057753027922, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To Africa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I was really missing it. And, uh, and that was just a six month commitment that was. But that was really fun. That was working on a really technical level with counterparts who were on similar career paths that I was on. That was really a great experience and, uh, I was able to work on UN Development Program grant doing community assessments with the Red Cross volunteers in a few regions in Togo to prepare trainings for peer volunteers to go out in the villages and help neighbors better support families who had children who were dying of AIDS living with them. And I wish that it had been a project where we were providing medical care and medications and nutrition.\n\nBut this was Red Cross. What we had were volunteers. And so we could help people to be less fearful and to kind of understand that the parents aren't able to work as much and they need firewood and we can help by doing a lot of things. And so that was, uh, we had a lot of focus groups done with faith communities were reaching out. They had members who were struggling and I started referring. There was an organization that was funded by the World Bank in kind of the neighborhood that my, uh, Red Cross office was in the capital, where they supported patients and with medical care and with all of the services that they needed that we couldn't. So I started referring patients to this organization called Vie Sans SIDA, Life Without AIDS, that my future husband was the executive director of. And that's how we met."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was involved in the organization that you kind of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:220", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2561972558658, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I was really missing it. And, uh, and that was just a six month commitment that was. But that was really fun. That was working on a really technical level with counterparts who were on similar career paths that I was on. That was really a great experience and, uh, I was able to work on UN Development Program grant doing community assessments with the Red Cross volunteers in a few regions in Togo to prepare trainings for peer volunteers to go out in the villages and help neighbors better support families who had children who were dying of AIDS living with them. And I wish that it had been a project where we were providing medical care and medications and nutrition.\n\nBut this was Red Cross. What we had were volunteers. And so we could help people to be less fearful and to kind of understand that the parents aren't able to work as much and they need firewood and we can help by doing a lot of things. And so that was, uh, we had a lot of focus groups done with faith communities were reaching out. They had members who were struggling and I started referring. There was an organization that was funded by the World Bank in kind of the neighborhood that my, uh, Red Cross office was in the capital, where they supported patients and with medical care and with all of the services that they needed that we couldn't. So I started referring patients to this organization called Vie Sans SIDA, Life Without AIDS, that my future husband was the executive director of. And that's how we met."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was involved in the organization that you kind of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Started referring, yes. He was doing better work, I mean, more immediate care. So they were doing excellent work. So I kept referring people to his organization. And that's how we got to know each other. And after my service was complete, a few months later, he came and joined me in New Orleans, and we were married there. And moved here after Katrina."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After Katrina. Oh, so you were, you were in New Orleans during Katrina?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:222", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.617996950962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was involved in the organization that you kind of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Started referring, yes. He was doing better work, I mean, more immediate care. So they were doing excellent work. So I kept referring people to his organization. And that's how we got to know each other. And after my service was complete, a few months later, he came and joined me in New Orleans, and we were married there. And moved here after Katrina."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After Katrina. Oh, so you were, you were in New Orleans during Katrina?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And were you in an area that you couldn't move back to or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:224", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.01999661218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Started referring, yes. He was doing better work, I mean, more immediate care. So they were doing excellent work. So I kept referring people to his organization. And that's how we got to know each other. And after my service was complete, a few months later, he came and joined me in New Orleans, and we were married there. And moved here after Katrina."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After Katrina. Oh, so you were, you were in New Orleans during Katrina?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And were you in an area that you couldn't move back to or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or did circumstances just come together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:226", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2444406802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And were you in an area that you couldn't move back to or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or did circumstances just come together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was closed. They closed our neighborhood. It didn't flood on our street. This, a couple of the cross streets flooded. We had a lot of wind damage and trees were down and roads were blocked. Electricity was out for several months. So we couldn't go back. Garbage collection didn't happen. The people who did go and clear out their refrigerators and such, they had garbage piled up over our heads for about a year. Let's see, it was a. And then I got pregnant, so we never moved back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You came up to Madison and."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:228", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.493822978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or did circumstances just come together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was closed. They closed our neighborhood. It didn't flood on our street. This, a couple of the cross streets flooded. We had a lot of wind damage and trees were down and roads were blocked. Electricity was out for several months. So we couldn't go back. Garbage collection didn't happen. The people who did go and clear out their refrigerators and such, they had garbage piled up over our heads for about a year. Let's see, it was a. And then I got pregnant, so we never moved back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You came up to Madison and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've essentially been here since?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:230", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.77091442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was closed. They closed our neighborhood. It didn't flood on our street. This, a couple of the cross streets flooded. We had a lot of wind damage and trees were down and roads were blocked. Electricity was out for several months. So we couldn't go back. Garbage collection didn't happen. The people who did go and clear out their refrigerators and such, they had garbage piled up over our heads for about a year. Let's see, it was a. And then I got pregnant, so we never moved back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You came up to Madison and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've essentially been here since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my husband loves it here, so go figure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you're back to your, you're back to your source."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:232", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0787938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've essentially been here since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my husband loves it here, so go figure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you're back to your, you're back to your source."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of end this up with, they always. One of the questions, and it's just these are like the three general goals of the Peace Corps. And if you could just provide like experiences in your service that met the goals. I'll give you the first one, to provide technical assistance where requested. Well, I mean, I think it's been obvious."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:234", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.420882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my husband loves it here, so go figure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you're back to your, you're back to your source."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of end this up with, they always. One of the questions, and it's just these are like the three general goals of the Peace Corps. And if you could just provide like experiences in your service that met the goals. I'll give you the first one, to provide technical assistance where requested. Well, I mean, I think it's been obvious."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had midwife trainings, we had peer support of peer volunteers, peer educators trained for HIV prevention. We had children. I had one mother come and tell me the recipe for making rehydration solution that her preschooler had taught her. So, at different levels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the second goal of to promote a better understanding of the United States? Well, your husband, I mean, he's."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:236", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.80098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of end this up with, they always. One of the questions, and it's just these are like the three general goals of the Peace Corps. And if you could just provide like experiences in your service that met the goals. I'll give you the first one, to provide technical assistance where requested. Well, I mean, I think it's been obvious."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had midwife trainings, we had peer support of peer volunteers, peer educators trained for HIV prevention. We had children. I had one mother come and tell me the recipe for making rehydration solution that her preschooler had taught her. So, at different levels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the second goal of to promote a better understanding of the United States? Well, your husband, I mean, he's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He now has an understanding."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:238", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had midwife trainings, we had peer support of peer volunteers, peer educators trained for HIV prevention. We had children. I had one mother come and tell me the recipe for making rehydration solution that her preschooler had taught her. So, at different levels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the second goal of to promote a better understanding of the United States? Well, your husband, I mean, he's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He now has an understanding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He does. And, uh. And I just, I think that. There was a volunteer who followed me and we met. She came to visit me in New Orleans and was able to tell me about my, the children who used to spend their free time on my porch or in my living room hanging out, listening to music and such. And they were, um, I don't know, not as surprised by her ways that they had been by mine. So in one very small way. But there were other very good exchanges that we had, especially with my students who were really open to learning about the world. And we had opportunities with my colleagues to really discuss our world views and understand our similar personalities and dissimilar personalities despite the cultural differences. So I feel like I was able to have a lot of authentic relationships with people and in that way they were able to learn about Americans being people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And then I guess on the other hand, since you've been back, do you feel like you've been able to tell Americans more about the people in Africa or relate more? And then along with that, what kind of activities have you done in the promotion of that or that you think have been, you know, things that you would have maybe not done if you had never been in the Peace Corps, since you've been back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:240", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He now has an understanding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He does. And, uh. And I just, I think that. There was a volunteer who followed me and we met. She came to visit me in New Orleans and was able to tell me about my, the children who used to spend their free time on my porch or in my living room hanging out, listening to music and such. And they were, um, I don't know, not as surprised by her ways that they had been by mine. So in one very small way. But there were other very good exchanges that we had, especially with my students who were really open to learning about the world. And we had opportunities with my colleagues to really discuss our world views and understand our similar personalities and dissimilar personalities despite the cultural differences. So I feel like I was able to have a lot of authentic relationships with people and in that way they were able to learn about Americans being people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And then I guess on the other hand, since you've been back, do you feel like you've been able to tell Americans more about the people in Africa or relate more? And then along with that, what kind of activities have you done in the promotion of that or that you think have been, you know, things that you would have maybe not done if you had never been in the Peace Corps, since you've been back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So how did I bring it home? I, well, I guess I've done a lot of classroom presentations, uh, from, I guess, very young kindergarten, first grade level up through college classrooms. I have presented different aspects of life in Africa. When I did my master's degree in public health, I did a lot of projects where I would focus on issues that I could share with my colleagues, my classmates. And raising my children. They have needed to understand a lot about their dad's culture and understand a lot about the differences between Guinea and Togo and rural and urban."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have they visited?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:244", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So how did I bring it home? I, well, I guess I've done a lot of classroom presentations, uh, from, I guess, very young kindergarten, first grade level up through college classrooms. I have presented different aspects of life in Africa. When I did my master's degree in public health, I did a lot of projects where I would focus on issues that I could share with my colleagues, my classmates. And raising my children. They have needed to understand a lot about their dad's culture and understand a lot about the differences between Guinea and Togo and rural and urban."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have they visited?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have been to Togo and visited with their family, their cousins and grandparents and everyone. And, um. And we do, uh, they then present on international days or whenever they can have a chance. And we do, our favorite pictures to start with are the high-rise buildings in the capital, because everyone's like, oh, Africa, it's all huts, you know? My pictures from Guinea might confirm that. So we lead with the. My husband grew up in Lomé, which is a larger city than Madison, so he didn't spend any time living in a village. So I'm kind of the hick between us, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that's something that people don't realize is that there's such a kind of a dichotomy within those countries. I mean, there's a very urban, sophisticated. They have every service. And then there's a rural component that is sometimes, you know, ages behind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's so true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it just depends on where you land. So I guess you have two children?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:246", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have been to Togo and visited with their family, their cousins and grandparents and everyone. And, um. And we do, uh, they then present on international days or whenever they can have a chance. And we do, our favorite pictures to start with are the high-rise buildings in the capital, because everyone's like, oh, Africa, it's all huts, you know? My pictures from Guinea might confirm that. So we lead with the. My husband grew up in Lomé, which is a larger city than Madison, so he didn't spend any time living in a village. So I'm kind of the hick between us, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that's something that people don't realize is that there's such a kind of a dichotomy within those countries. I mean, there's a very urban, sophisticated. They have every service. And then there's a rural component that is sometimes, you know, ages behind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's so true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it just depends on where you land. So I guess you have two children?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe we could just end up on. They're, I think I've met them. Teenagers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:248", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's so true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it just depends on where you land. So I guess you have two children?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe we could just end up on. They're, I think I've met them. Teenagers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're, yes, they're adolescents. 14 and 12."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Have they, they have a concept of Peace Corps. Do you do you think that they are thinking of maybe that is a possibility, that they would someday serve in the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00041:250", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe we could just end up on. They're, I think I've met them. Teenagers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're, yes, they're adolescents. 14 and 12."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Have they, they have a concept of Peace Corps. Do you do you think that they are thinking of maybe that is a possibility, that they would someday serve in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they, I mean, I bring them to Peace Corps events. They are always receptive to coming along with me, for volunteering for fundraisers and Peace Corps parties and such. After our experience in Togo, my son is less eager, and my daughter speaks in terms of when I do Peace Corps. So I was promising them that when they do their service, I'll come with them. It'll be joyful for me. Although now, as they get older, I think they would probably not like that. They're not as comforted by that concept. They may want their space from mom, but, uh, I certainly encourage it. There are so many other ways that they can do international service now. So we'll see what the best option is for them when they're ready."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other, any other parting comments or it's, I think it's, we've covered a pretty good service in Africa."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.542280616473697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Undergraduate degree was in philosophy from Loyola University in Chicago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and now let's go back a little further. You grew up in Chicago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Grew up in Chicago. Absolutely. I was born in 1942."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Large family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No very small family. Just my brother and I. My my parents were the first born in the United States in their respective families that their parents were were all from Poland. And we actually lived in the very same building with my maternal grandparents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you grew up, went to parochial school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.491422907192995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Grew up in Chicago. Absolutely. I was born in 1942."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Large family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No very small family. Just my brother and I. My my parents were the first born in the United States in their respective families that their parents were were all from Poland. And we actually lived in the very same building with my maternal grandparents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you grew up, went to parochial school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.43491434132555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No very small family. Just my brother and I. My my parents were the first born in the United States in their respective families that their parents were were all from Poland. And we actually lived in the very same building with my maternal grandparents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you grew up, went to parochial school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through high school, and went to the Jesuit High School in Chicago. St. Ignatius."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Up through your high school graduation, had you done any extracurricular work, any volunteer work, any travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.594349268139496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through high school, and went to the Jesuit High School in Chicago. St. Ignatius."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Up through your high school graduation, had you done any extracurricular work, any volunteer work, any travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Up through high school, actually not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.43816585348833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through high school, and went to the Jesuit High School in Chicago. St. Ignatius."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Up through your high school graduation, had you done any extracurricular work, any volunteer work, any travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Up through high school, actually not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I worked. My first job started in the sixth grade and I worked at the at the bingo game at the local parochial, you know, that probably at the local parochial church. And I worked every Friday night at bingo and I earned, you know, maybe maybe ten dollars on a night working there. And I worked all through high school. I worked during during college. I was a commuter student at undergraduate school. So, you know, I really never went away. The first time I was really living away was was when I went to graduate school at Georgetown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when you graduated high school, were you the first in the family to go into college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.486850948320363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Up through high school, actually not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I worked. My first job started in the sixth grade and I worked at the at the bingo game at the local parochial, you know, that probably at the local parochial church. And I worked every Friday night at bingo and I earned, you know, maybe maybe ten dollars on a night working there. And I worked all through high school. I worked during during college. I was a commuter student at undergraduate school. So, you know, I really never went away. The first time I was really living away was was when I went to graduate school at Georgetown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when you graduated high school, were you the first in the family to go into college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was at that point? What kind of career goal did you have?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 20.540945498133738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I worked. My first job started in the sixth grade and I worked at the at the bingo game at the local parochial, you know, that probably at the local parochial church. And I worked every Friday night at bingo and I earned, you know, maybe maybe ten dollars on a night working there. And I worked all through high school. I worked during during college. I was a commuter student at undergraduate school. So, you know, I really never went away. The first time I was really living away was was when I went to graduate school at Georgetown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when you graduated high school, were you the first in the family to go into college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was at that point? What kind of career goal did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I really didn't know what my career goals were at the time. I was in a liberal arts program at Loyola University, which meant that I had to study both Latin and Greek the word requirements at the time for an AB. And I just I really don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any thought of becoming a priest?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.045494997926374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was at that point? What kind of career goal did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I really didn't know what my career goals were at the time. I was in a liberal arts program at Loyola University, which meant that I had to study both Latin and Greek the word requirements at the time for an AB. And I just I really don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any thought of becoming a priest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, absolutely. In fact, after my I think it was after my first year in undergraduate school, I actually went off to a Jesuit seminary in Milford, Ohio, and I spent about a year and a half there and after being there for a year and a half, realized that it was not for me or came back and finished up my undergraduate degree at Loyola."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when you graduated Loyola, we had you your plan was immediately to go to graduate school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.494994442140415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I really didn't know what my career goals were at the time. I was in a liberal arts program at Loyola University, which meant that I had to study both Latin and Greek the word requirements at the time for an AB. And I just I really don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any thought of becoming a priest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, absolutely. In fact, after my I think it was after my first year in undergraduate school, I actually went off to a Jesuit seminary in Milford, Ohio, and I spent about a year and a half there and after being there for a year and a half, realized that it was not for me or came back and finished up my undergraduate degree at Loyola."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when you graduated Loyola, we had you your plan was immediately to go to graduate school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in fact, ideally, my plan was to go to law school. And around the time of taking the law school admission test, my mother had been ill and hospitalized. And I must say, I did a terrible job on the LSAT when I took it, and that was back in 1963, I think it was. And because I got such a terrible score on the LSAT, I just decided that I was not going to apply to law school and instead apply to graduate school in international studies at Georgetown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A couple of questions about as you were graduating or one, what was your relationship to the draft?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.105549380156017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, absolutely. In fact, after my I think it was after my first year in undergraduate school, I actually went off to a Jesuit seminary in Milford, Ohio, and I spent about a year and a half there and after being there for a year and a half, realized that it was not for me or came back and finished up my undergraduate degree at Loyola."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when you graduated Loyola, we had you your plan was immediately to go to graduate school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in fact, ideally, my plan was to go to law school. And around the time of taking the law school admission test, my mother had been ill and hospitalized. And I must say, I did a terrible job on the LSAT when I took it, and that was back in 1963, I think it was. And because I got such a terrible score on the LSAT, I just decided that I was not going to apply to law school and instead apply to graduate school in international studies at Georgetown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A couple of questions about as you were graduating or one, what was your relationship to the draft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was graduating from first degree, from my first degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you subject to being drafted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 17.895054866840017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in fact, ideally, my plan was to go to law school. And around the time of taking the law school admission test, my mother had been ill and hospitalized. And I must say, I did a terrible job on the LSAT when I took it, and that was back in 1963, I think it was. And because I got such a terrible score on the LSAT, I just decided that I was not going to apply to law school and instead apply to graduate school in international studies at Georgetown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A couple of questions about as you were graduating or one, what was your relationship to the draft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was graduating from first degree, from my first degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you subject to being drafted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I assume I would have been I, I really I must say, I did not give it much of a thought at that time. And and I think if I'm not mistaken, I think that when I was in graduate school, I think I was still getting a deferral, but I'm not positive about that. Not positive about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your undergraduate years, a couple of questions. Had you heard about the Peace Corps? Did you know of anyone who joined the Peace Corps? What was your sense?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.994505407600018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was graduating from first degree, from my first degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you subject to being drafted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I assume I would have been I, I really I must say, I did not give it much of a thought at that time. And and I think if I'm not mistaken, I think that when I was in graduate school, I think I was still getting a deferral, but I'm not positive about that. Not positive about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your undergraduate years, a couple of questions. Had you heard about the Peace Corps? Did you know of anyone who joined the Peace Corps? What was your sense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, you know, I, I really did not in my undergraduate school years. I took one semester away and went to the I think it was called the oh, the Catholic University of Puerto Rico concept. And it was a language institute down there. And it was it was run by the Catholic Church. And it was really quite a good language school. And I lived with a Puerto Rican family in Ponce. And I think I did that in, let's say, September to December of 1963, I think it was. And I came back really being quite fluent in Spanish. The idea was that I was I was thinking about some sort of international work, even even back then. I just didn't know where. And this was an opportunity and I don't even remember who recommended it to me, but that's where I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so by the time you finished your first degree, you had already lived in a different environment. You had studied a language."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.993894897333353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I assume I would have been I, I really I must say, I did not give it much of a thought at that time. And and I think if I'm not mistaken, I think that when I was in graduate school, I think I was still getting a deferral, but I'm not positive about that. Not positive about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your undergraduate years, a couple of questions. Had you heard about the Peace Corps? Did you know of anyone who joined the Peace Corps? What was your sense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, you know, I, I really did not in my undergraduate school years. I took one semester away and went to the I think it was called the oh, the Catholic University of Puerto Rico concept. And it was a language institute down there. And it was it was run by the Catholic Church. And it was really quite a good language school. And I lived with a Puerto Rican family in Ponce. And I think I did that in, let's say, September to December of 1963, I think it was. And I came back really being quite fluent in Spanish. The idea was that I was I was thinking about some sort of international work, even even back then. I just didn't know where. And this was an opportunity and I don't even remember who recommended it to me, but that's where I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so by the time you finished your first degree, you had already lived in a different environment. You had studied a language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. In fact, Bob, it's coming back to me now. Yeah. I believe that this training program was most of the people in the program were called I think the group was called PAVLA and it stood for Papal Volunteers to Latin America. Do you remember that name at all?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, I've heard of papal volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.993216552592616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, you know, I, I really did not in my undergraduate school years. I took one semester away and went to the I think it was called the oh, the Catholic University of Puerto Rico concept. And it was a language institute down there. And it was it was run by the Catholic Church. And it was really quite a good language school. And I lived with a Puerto Rican family in Ponce. And I think I did that in, let's say, September to December of 1963, I think it was. And I came back really being quite fluent in Spanish. The idea was that I was I was thinking about some sort of international work, even even back then. I just didn't know where. And this was an opportunity and I don't even remember who recommended it to me, but that's where I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so by the time you finished your first degree, you had already lived in a different environment. You had studied a language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. In fact, Bob, it's coming back to me now. Yeah. I believe that this training program was most of the people in the program were called I think the group was called PAVLA and it stood for Papal Volunteers to Latin America. Do you remember that name at all?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, I've heard of papal volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was made up of a group of there were nuns, there were priests and there were laypersons in the group. I was the only one who was not going down to be a volunteer in Latin America under the egis of PAVLA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was acceptable to them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.103573947325128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. In fact, Bob, it's coming back to me now. Yeah. I believe that this training program was most of the people in the program were called I think the group was called PAVLA and it stood for Papal Volunteers to Latin America. Do you remember that name at all?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, I've heard of papal volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was made up of a group of there were nuns, there were priests and there were laypersons in the group. I was the only one who was not going down to be a volunteer in Latin America under the egis of PAVLA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was acceptable to them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was acceptable to them. Yes, I was I was just able to enroll."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Come back to the question of knowing about the Peace Corps. I was certainly coming from a Catholic background. You must be keenly aware of Kennedy's presidency."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.115082163694586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was made up of a group of there were nuns, there were priests and there were laypersons in the group. I was the only one who was not going down to be a volunteer in Latin America under the egis of PAVLA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was acceptable to them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was acceptable to them. Yes, I was I was just able to enroll."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Come back to the question of knowing about the Peace Corps. I was certainly coming from a Catholic background. You must be keenly aware of Kennedy's presidency."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, no question about it. And, I must say, I think my experience down in Puerto Rico confirmed in me that I did not want to be a papal volunteer in Latin America. I thought it was more a gut sense. It was it was a bit much too religious for me, OK? And I just didn't feel comfortable in that setting. And I also heard great things about the training that the Peace Corps was doing and that moved both Mary and me in the direction of the Peace Corps. So we applied separately and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's come back. OK, so after you finish your degree, you almost immediately go into graduate school, into Georgetown. And you were there for a year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.238980181882873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was acceptable to them. Yes, I was I was just able to enroll."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Come back to the question of knowing about the Peace Corps. I was certainly coming from a Catholic background. You must be keenly aware of Kennedy's presidency."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, no question about it. And, I must say, I think my experience down in Puerto Rico confirmed in me that I did not want to be a papal volunteer in Latin America. I thought it was more a gut sense. It was it was a bit much too religious for me, OK? And I just didn't feel comfortable in that setting. And I also heard great things about the training that the Peace Corps was doing and that moved both Mary and me in the direction of the Peace Corps. So we applied separately and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's come back. OK, so after you finish your degree, you almost immediately go into graduate school, into Georgetown. And you were there for a year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year and a half, I think, for coursework."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, right. But you were coming here. You must have been near the end of your program even though you had your thesis."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.487755757647637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, no question about it. And, I must say, I think my experience down in Puerto Rico confirmed in me that I did not want to be a papal volunteer in Latin America. I thought it was more a gut sense. It was it was a bit much too religious for me, OK? And I just didn't feel comfortable in that setting. And I also heard great things about the training that the Peace Corps was doing and that moved both Mary and me in the direction of the Peace Corps. So we applied separately and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's come back. OK, so after you finish your degree, you almost immediately go into graduate school, into Georgetown. And you were there for a year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year and a half, I think, for coursework."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, right. But you were coming here. You must have been near the end of your program even though you had your thesis."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely. Very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your plan at that point? Assuming you got the degree."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.87528417516404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year and a half, I think, for coursework."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, right. But you were coming here. You must have been near the end of your program even though you had your thesis."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely. Very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your plan at that point? Assuming you got the degree."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably to go on and get a Ph.D. OK, I think I think it was it was an academic track for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you hadn't opened up any other alternatives, like, well, if I don't get my degree, I'll do this."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.416982416848933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely. Very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your plan at that point? Assuming you got the degree."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably to go on and get a Ph.D. OK, I think I think it was it was an academic track for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you hadn't opened up any other alternatives, like, well, if I don't get my degree, I'll do this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Mary and I had talked about it, and we certainly. Were of the mind that we wanted to take a shot at the at the Peace Corps and and ultimately we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when did you marry, while you were in graduate school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.574424907609925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably to go on and get a Ph.D. OK, I think I think it was it was an academic track for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you hadn't opened up any other alternatives, like, well, if I don't get my degree, I'll do this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Mary and I had talked about it, and we certainly. Were of the mind that we wanted to take a shot at the at the Peace Corps and and ultimately we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when did you marry, while you were in graduate school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was out of graduate school. In fact, I'll tell you what. Yeah, our wedding was, I think, the weekend before Peace Corps training began at the University of Washington in Seattle. That's what I was going to married in Chicago, you know. And we got on a plane. We went to San Francisco for a couple of days and then we got on a plane and went to Seattle and began Peace Corps training. That was our honeymoon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. So at some point when you were in the graduate program, you made the decision to apply for the Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.749361008455473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Mary and I had talked about it, and we certainly. Were of the mind that we wanted to take a shot at the at the Peace Corps and and ultimately we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when did you marry, while you were in graduate school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was out of graduate school. In fact, I'll tell you what. Yeah, our wedding was, I think, the weekend before Peace Corps training began at the University of Washington in Seattle. That's what I was going to married in Chicago, you know. And we got on a plane. We went to San Francisco for a couple of days and then we got on a plane and went to Seattle and began Peace Corps training. That was our honeymoon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. So at some point when you were in the graduate program, you made the decision to apply for the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. We both applied. I think we both got invitations to programs that were starting earlier than the time horizon I had for completing my work had gone successfully. I think one invitation was to the Philippines and then the invitation to Bolivia came along. Right. And the timing looked very good. And we both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you expressed a preference on the application for assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.054845564950526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was out of graduate school. In fact, I'll tell you what. Yeah, our wedding was, I think, the weekend before Peace Corps training began at the University of Washington in Seattle. That's what I was going to married in Chicago, you know. And we got on a plane. We went to San Francisco for a couple of days and then we got on a plane and went to Seattle and began Peace Corps training. That was our honeymoon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. So at some point when you were in the graduate program, you made the decision to apply for the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. We both applied. I think we both got invitations to programs that were starting earlier than the time horizon I had for completing my work had gone successfully. I think one invitation was to the Philippines and then the invitation to Bolivia came along. Right. And the timing looked very good. And we both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you expressed a preference on the application for assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did, yes, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the preference?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.50538396105614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. We both applied. I think we both got invitations to programs that were starting earlier than the time horizon I had for completing my work had gone successfully. I think one invitation was to the Philippines and then the invitation to Bolivia came along. Right. And the timing looked very good. And we both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you expressed a preference on the application for assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did, yes, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the preference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The preference, I think we could specify language preferences, if I'm not mistaken. And we both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Area and language competency."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.005982178951266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did, yes, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the preference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The preference, I think we could specify language preferences, if I'm not mistaken. And we both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Area and language competency."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language competency we put down was Spanish. And that's why I think the Philippines invitation came along and then Bolivia was the second invitation. And that's the one we accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you and Mary, you're now married, yet you applied at the invitation of Bolivia and you report to Washington University?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.673313532168073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The preference, I think we could specify language preferences, if I'm not mistaken. And we both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Area and language competency."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language competency we put down was Spanish. And that's why I think the Philippines invitation came along and then Bolivia was the second invitation. And that's the one we accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you and Mary, you're now married, yet you applied at the invitation of Bolivia and you report to Washington University?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct. Up in Seattle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the program was described as?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.30368170240897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language competency we put down was Spanish. And that's why I think the Philippines invitation came along and then Bolivia was the second invitation. And that's the one we accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you and Mary, you're now married, yet you applied at the invitation of Bolivia and you report to Washington University?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct. Up in Seattle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the program was described as?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rural community development. And our training program was shared with university educators that were going to Bolivia, Ecuador and Peru, if I'm not mistaken. So there were there were two side by side parallel track training programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's let's talk about the components of training and your experience. And one of the main components of training is course is language training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.11520189156552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct. Up in Seattle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the program was described as?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rural community development. And our training program was shared with university educators that were going to Bolivia, Ecuador and Peru, if I'm not mistaken. So there were there were two side by side parallel track training programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's let's talk about the components of training and your experience. And one of the main components of training is course is language training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You want to describe that word?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.572446546183912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rural community development. And our training program was shared with university educators that were going to Bolivia, Ecuador and Peru, if I'm not mistaken. So there were there were two side by side parallel track training programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's let's talk about the components of training and your experience. And one of the main components of training is course is language training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You want to describe that word?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I know. One of the things about the language training at Seattle was this. The Peace Corps had a couple of years of experience in Bolivia already, and the Peace Corps realized that training volunteers in Spanish only was not the way to go, particularly for rural community development. So the Peace Corps said it is essential for us to train people in Aymara, one of the Andean languages spoken in Bolivia. It would be Quechua if you went to Peru. But Aymara was the was the language in Bolivia. So we were told that our training program was going to be dual language, it was going to be Spanish and Aymara. And the way the program worked was this. Everyone had to get up to a certain level of competence in Spanish and then in effect, he would graduate to the Aymara, that’s the way it went. And they weren't looking for deep, deep competence before moving on to Aymara, but just enough. I was able to test out of that because of my Puerto Rican training. And really moved right into Aymara, which was fascinating because it is not a written language. There is no literature. This was the first time the Peace Corps was attempting this with Aymara. And what they did was to bring a few informants are from Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Native Aymara speakers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.524940606871013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You want to describe that word?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I know. One of the things about the language training at Seattle was this. The Peace Corps had a couple of years of experience in Bolivia already, and the Peace Corps realized that training volunteers in Spanish only was not the way to go, particularly for rural community development. So the Peace Corps said it is essential for us to train people in Aymara, one of the Andean languages spoken in Bolivia. It would be Quechua if you went to Peru. But Aymara was the was the language in Bolivia. So we were told that our training program was going to be dual language, it was going to be Spanish and Aymara. And the way the program worked was this. Everyone had to get up to a certain level of competence in Spanish and then in effect, he would graduate to the Aymara, that’s the way it went. And they weren't looking for deep, deep competence before moving on to Aymara, but just enough. I was able to test out of that because of my Puerto Rican training. And really moved right into Aymara, which was fascinating because it is not a written language. There is no literature. This was the first time the Peace Corps was attempting this with Aymara. And what they did was to bring a few informants are from Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Native Aymara speakers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. In fact, I think to this day, tell them that Antonio Quispe, Q-U-I-S-P-E. I guess he was a I would say maybe a forty year old Bolivian from the Altiplano, and he was our principal instructor in Aymara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they structure the language training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.472156229856681, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I know. One of the things about the language training at Seattle was this. The Peace Corps had a couple of years of experience in Bolivia already, and the Peace Corps realized that training volunteers in Spanish only was not the way to go, particularly for rural community development. So the Peace Corps said it is essential for us to train people in Aymara, one of the Andean languages spoken in Bolivia. It would be Quechua if you went to Peru. But Aymara was the was the language in Bolivia. So we were told that our training program was going to be dual language, it was going to be Spanish and Aymara. And the way the program worked was this. Everyone had to get up to a certain level of competence in Spanish and then in effect, he would graduate to the Aymara, that’s the way it went. And they weren't looking for deep, deep competence before moving on to Aymara, but just enough. I was able to test out of that because of my Puerto Rican training. And really moved right into Aymara, which was fascinating because it is not a written language. There is no literature. This was the first time the Peace Corps was attempting this with Aymara. And what they did was to bring a few informants are from Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Native Aymara speakers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. In fact, I think to this day, tell them that Antonio Quispe, Q-U-I-S-P-E. I guess he was a I would say maybe a forty year old Bolivian from the Altiplano, and he was our principal instructor in Aymara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they structure the language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The language training was all based on the we are not going to speak Spanish. We're not going to speak English, are going to speak Aymara only."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours a day?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.413506922062979, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. In fact, I think to this day, tell them that Antonio Quispe, Q-U-I-S-P-E. I guess he was a I would say maybe a forty year old Bolivian from the Altiplano, and he was our principal instructor in Aymara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they structure the language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The language training was all based on the we are not going to speak Spanish. We're not going to speak English, are going to speak Aymara only."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours a day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We probably spent eight hours a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm curious, then, how many will one how many people were in the training group approximately?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.459452135625531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The language training was all based on the we are not going to speak Spanish. We're not going to speak English, are going to speak Aymara only."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours a day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We probably spent eight hours a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm curious, then, how many will one how many people were in the training group approximately?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say we were probably a group of I'm going to guess a little bit north of 20."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Backing you up a little bit. You and Mary reported to training. And there were about 20 of you, all of whom were going to Bolivia. OK, you remember your reaction to the rest others in the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.443768068673494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say we were probably a group of I'm going to guess a little bit north of 20."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Backing you up a little bit. You and Mary reported to training. And there were about 20 of you, all of whom were going to Bolivia. OK, you remember your reaction to the rest others in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I you know, it's I'm very glad you asked that question. That was the very first time in my life I had been in a generally pluralistic learning setting. When you think about it, it's quite shocking, actually. But I really came from a Catholic ghetto, right. In terms of education, because I started with the nuns, went to the Jesuits in high school, Jesuits in undergraduate school, Jesuits in graduate school. So this was the very first time the people were absolutely delightful, absolutely delightful. There were, I think, four married couples in our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's high."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very high because the Peace Corps, I think, was at that point just not quite certain whether they were keen on having married couples or not a little betwixt and between. But this group had four and we hit it off. Well, I had a we had a delightful group. And interestingly enough, we had a a modern type election for the president of this group. And believe it or not, I was elected, but we had to follow the cultural rules of the primary election. And the idea is you get up and give a speech about why the people should not elect you, because that is the that is the cultural norm. You would you would get up and explain. You can't elect me because of this, this and the other thing. And I just did kind of a humorous take on that about why they should not. And lo and behold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm curious about the 20, how many immediately qualified in Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.60418674297055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I you know, it's I'm very glad you asked that question. That was the very first time in my life I had been in a generally pluralistic learning setting. When you think about it, it's quite shocking, actually. But I really came from a Catholic ghetto, right. In terms of education, because I started with the nuns, went to the Jesuits in high school, Jesuits in undergraduate school, Jesuits in graduate school. So this was the very first time the people were absolutely delightful, absolutely delightful. There were, I think, four married couples in our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's high."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very high because the Peace Corps, I think, was at that point just not quite certain whether they were keen on having married couples or not a little betwixt and between. But this group had four and we hit it off. Well, I had a we had a delightful group. And interestingly enough, we had a a modern type election for the president of this group. And believe it or not, I was elected, but we had to follow the cultural rules of the primary election. And the idea is you get up and give a speech about why the people should not elect you, because that is the that is the cultural norm. You would you would get up and explain. You can't elect me because of this, this and the other thing. And I just did kind of a humorous take on that about why they should not. And lo and behold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm curious about the 20, how many immediately qualified in Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I have a hard time recalling that. But I think many of the people came in with at least some knowledge in Spanish. For example, I never had any academic studies in in Spanish. Mine were only direct. I didn't know grammar rules at all. I just knew how to speak it. And many of the people there certainly knew the hard core grammar. They had a high school, maybe maybe college, and then they were picking up the linguistic side of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you went straight into the Aymara stuff pretty quickly. How many other people were in that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.893540825522832, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very high because the Peace Corps, I think, was at that point just not quite certain whether they were keen on having married couples or not a little betwixt and between. But this group had four and we hit it off. Well, I had a we had a delightful group. And interestingly enough, we had a a modern type election for the president of this group. And believe it or not, I was elected, but we had to follow the cultural rules of the primary election. And the idea is you get up and give a speech about why the people should not elect you, because that is the that is the cultural norm. You would you would get up and explain. You can't elect me because of this, this and the other thing. And I just did kind of a humorous take on that about why they should not. And lo and behold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm curious about the 20, how many immediately qualified in Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I have a hard time recalling that. But I think many of the people came in with at least some knowledge in Spanish. For example, I never had any academic studies in in Spanish. Mine were only direct. I didn't know grammar rules at all. I just knew how to speak it. And many of the people there certainly knew the hard core grammar. They had a high school, maybe maybe college, and then they were picking up the linguistic side of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you went straight into the Aymara stuff pretty quickly. How many other people were in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say at least a half dozen or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you fair of third of the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.881712028358702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I have a hard time recalling that. But I think many of the people came in with at least some knowledge in Spanish. For example, I never had any academic studies in in Spanish. Mine were only direct. I didn't know grammar rules at all. I just knew how to speak it. And many of the people there certainly knew the hard core grammar. They had a high school, maybe maybe college, and then they were picking up the linguistic side of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you went straight into the Aymara stuff pretty quickly. How many other people were in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say at least a half dozen or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you fair of third of the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, OK. I would say a third of us did. And we sat in a semicircle with Mr. Quispe and he would just talk with us and he was really repeating what you hear and then trying to learn often. And of course language training consisted of working with the informant or the tutor for a while, working in the language lab before for another part of the day. So I would say this probably because it might have been for us maybe five hours a day with a live instructor and maybe three hours in our language lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any indication from the training staff that you had to get up to a certain level in the language or you might be deselected or not go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.97968003150967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say at least a half dozen or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you fair of third of the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, OK. I would say a third of us did. And we sat in a semicircle with Mr. Quispe and he would just talk with us and he was really repeating what you hear and then trying to learn often. And of course language training consisted of working with the informant or the tutor for a while, working in the language lab before for another part of the day. So I would say this probably because it might have been for us maybe five hours a day with a live instructor and maybe three hours in our language lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any indication from the training staff that you had to get up to a certain level in the language or you might be deselected or not go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never felt any pressure at all in terms of getting to a level and this the deselection know a deselection issue. In fact, I believe at that time the Peace Corps was almost moving away from deselection to this sort of self selection, where there would be a kind of a guided counseling abroad about what you were, what your future prospects might be and how people responded to that. So I. I never you know, it was not one of these things that you hear about in medical school where they say, look to the right, look to the left, the only one of you is going to go back. It wasn't anything like that. They did not make it a boot camp type experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another component of training is area studies to learn about."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.199644479455188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, OK. I would say a third of us did. And we sat in a semicircle with Mr. Quispe and he would just talk with us and he was really repeating what you hear and then trying to learn often. And of course language training consisted of working with the informant or the tutor for a while, working in the language lab before for another part of the day. So I would say this probably because it might have been for us maybe five hours a day with a live instructor and maybe three hours in our language lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any indication from the training staff that you had to get up to a certain level in the language or you might be deselected or not go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never felt any pressure at all in terms of getting to a level and this the deselection know a deselection issue. In fact, I believe at that time the Peace Corps was almost moving away from deselection to this sort of self selection, where there would be a kind of a guided counseling abroad about what you were, what your future prospects might be and how people responded to that. So I. I never you know, it was not one of these things that you hear about in medical school where they say, look to the right, look to the left, the only one of you is going to go back. It wasn't anything like that. They did not make it a boot camp type experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another component of training is area studies to learn about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And any comments on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.110716088283542, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never felt any pressure at all in terms of getting to a level and this the deselection know a deselection issue. In fact, I believe at that time the Peace Corps was almost moving away from deselection to this sort of self selection, where there would be a kind of a guided counseling abroad about what you were, what your future prospects might be and how people responded to that. So I. I never you know, it was not one of these things that you hear about in medical school where they say, look to the right, look to the left, the only one of you is going to go back. It wasn't anything like that. They did not make it a boot camp type experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another component of training is area studies to learn about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And any comments on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Utterly superb. I can see him and I'm sorry, I can't remember his name, but he was a professor at the University of Washington. I think his name was Bill Clark, if I'm not mistaken, just one of the foremost guys in the area. He was he was terrific. The the cultural studies. I remember every Wednesday, we used to have a dance class. We were taught the Aymara dances, the wyno, the cuenca. And that would be the day. Wednesday was also the day we always got our shots. So you would you would you would dance your shots off in the evening with these dance classes. But the cultural studies, the historical studies, the current political situations and so on, very, very well done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, were there any, Peace Corps had been in Bolivia for a while?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.123017875870602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And any comments on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Utterly superb. I can see him and I'm sorry, I can't remember his name, but he was a professor at the University of Washington. I think his name was Bill Clark, if I'm not mistaken, just one of the foremost guys in the area. He was he was terrific. The the cultural studies. I remember every Wednesday, we used to have a dance class. We were taught the Aymara dances, the wyno, the cuenca. And that would be the day. Wednesday was also the day we always got our shots. So you would you would you would dance your shots off in the evening with these dance classes. But the cultural studies, the historical studies, the current political situations and so on, very, very well done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, were there any, Peace Corps had been in Bolivia for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, were there any returned volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.025575417634002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Utterly superb. I can see him and I'm sorry, I can't remember his name, but he was a professor at the University of Washington. I think his name was Bill Clark, if I'm not mistaken, just one of the foremost guys in the area. He was he was terrific. The the cultural studies. I remember every Wednesday, we used to have a dance class. We were taught the Aymara dances, the wyno, the cuenca. And that would be the day. Wednesday was also the day we always got our shots. So you would you would you would dance your shots off in the evening with these dance classes. But the cultural studies, the historical studies, the current political situations and so on, very, very well done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, were there any, Peace Corps had been in Bolivia for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, were there any returned volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were excellent returned volunteers. And at one time during the training, I believe that the the regional director under which we were going to work, his name was Nicky Mel Reagan and came up to Seattle and visited with us before we went down. We were going to be the first group that was going to go down to Bolivia, not having been sworn in as volunteers yet. We were going to have a month in country training in Bolivia with our Bolivian counterparts. We went out to an agricultural extension station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll get there. Yeah, OK, good. So I don't know. I think by the sixth year time they may have given up. The third component of training needs to be what they call the American studies, world affairs and communism. Just to be sure that you were aware of the very global picture, as you know, if you were challenged as a volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.917306019593335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, were there any returned volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were excellent returned volunteers. And at one time during the training, I believe that the the regional director under which we were going to work, his name was Nicky Mel Reagan and came up to Seattle and visited with us before we went down. We were going to be the first group that was going to go down to Bolivia, not having been sworn in as volunteers yet. We were going to have a month in country training in Bolivia with our Bolivian counterparts. We went out to an agricultural extension station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll get there. Yeah, OK, good. So I don't know. I think by the sixth year time they may have given up. The third component of training needs to be what they call the American studies, world affairs and communism. Just to be sure that you were aware of the very global picture, as you know, if you were challenged as a volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I I think there was a component of that. I must say it does not stand out in my mind. And I couldn't even begin to tell you the name of the instructor. Sure. But I'm sure it was there because we certainly did encounter challenges as soon as we arrived in Bolivia. I work on the world scene really at that time it was it was all about Vietnam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, yes, that was OK. So they so the most likely discussion in training about indeed India and particularly recall that I was saying, well, the proper way to deal with this is or was it just making you aware there's a difference?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.90811779954815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were excellent returned volunteers. And at one time during the training, I believe that the the regional director under which we were going to work, his name was Nicky Mel Reagan and came up to Seattle and visited with us before we went down. We were going to be the first group that was going to go down to Bolivia, not having been sworn in as volunteers yet. We were going to have a month in country training in Bolivia with our Bolivian counterparts. We went out to an agricultural extension station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll get there. Yeah, OK, good. So I don't know. I think by the sixth year time they may have given up. The third component of training needs to be what they call the American studies, world affairs and communism. Just to be sure that you were aware of the very global picture, as you know, if you were challenged as a volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I I think there was a component of that. I must say it does not stand out in my mind. And I couldn't even begin to tell you the name of the instructor. Sure. But I'm sure it was there because we certainly did encounter challenges as soon as we arrived in Bolivia. I work on the world scene really at that time it was it was all about Vietnam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, yes, that was OK. So they so the most likely discussion in training about indeed India and particularly recall that I was saying, well, the proper way to deal with this is or was it just making you aware there's a difference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there is. I must say, Bob, I don't have much of a recollection of that. And I think I would I if it had been an offensive approach, I think I might have recalled. So I don't it does not stick in my minds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else about the training setting to the group of 20 must have become somewhat close."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6261511957752623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were there for a long weekend, I think maybe three days or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were simply to find out as much as you could?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Find out about the community, how information traveled in the. And I remember we we spent a good deal of time in one of the local bars, which was, you know, a very important meeting place in the community. And if you wanted to know what was going on, you had to spend some time at the bar. So it was it was a delightful experiment. And I thought it was an excellent idea when we got to Bolivia. We were prepared. And I think that is a tribute to the training program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During training, you mentioned that the regional director came up to he or anyone else try to give you a sense of the work they are doing once he got to Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, they were they they were first preparing us for the in-country training. They were they were telling us a bit about what we were going to experience there. And then they were also telling us about another Peace Corps experiment, which was going to be site self selection. And we were not going to be assigned to a community and told this is where we were going to be and explained to us that we were going to be given about 30 days after we became volunteers to travel wherever the rural community development program was working. And wherever there were potential counterparts living. And we were to make our own deal, in essence, and we were to get them to invite us to stay and we were to commit to stay because the Peace Corps wanted to try to reduce the turnover in volunteers coming back into the capital and saying, gee, you know, it's just not working out and they don't like me. And it's an interesting approach. So the the regional director prepared us for all of that. What we had to look forward to once we went down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s just finish up training. Did anyone resign during the period when many people selected?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.029056884194736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Find out about the community, how information traveled in the. And I remember we we spent a good deal of time in one of the local bars, which was, you know, a very important meeting place in the community. And if you wanted to know what was going on, you had to spend some time at the bar. So it was it was a delightful experiment. And I thought it was an excellent idea when we got to Bolivia. We were prepared. And I think that is a tribute to the training program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During training, you mentioned that the regional director came up to he or anyone else try to give you a sense of the work they are doing once he got to Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, they were they they were first preparing us for the in-country training. They were they were telling us a bit about what we were going to experience there. And then they were also telling us about another Peace Corps experiment, which was going to be site self selection. And we were not going to be assigned to a community and told this is where we were going to be and explained to us that we were going to be given about 30 days after we became volunteers to travel wherever the rural community development program was working. And wherever there were potential counterparts living. And we were to make our own deal, in essence, and we were to get them to invite us to stay and we were to commit to stay because the Peace Corps wanted to try to reduce the turnover in volunteers coming back into the capital and saying, gee, you know, it's just not working out and they don't like me. And it's an interesting approach. So the the regional director prepared us for all of that. What we had to look forward to once we went down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s just finish up training. Did anyone resign during the period when many people selected?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They think I think there there may have been one or two leaving during training, but I think the real fallout came once we got over here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And one last thing before you leave the states. What was your status at that point with the draft or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.974144301474982, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They think I think there there may have been one or two leaving during training, but I think the real fallout came once we got over here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And one last thing before you leave the states. What was your status at that point with the draft or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I was I was one a I think all the way along, I guess I had to notify the local board that I was going into the Peace Corps and I don't know what classification they gave me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Deferment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that what it is? But, you know, I don't remember these letters and numbers. I was 1-A I know that in terms of health and so on all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the assumption is your board was not required to, but they could give you a deferment for Peace Corps service and most boards did."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5268270016388685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I was I was one a I think all the way along, I guess I had to notify the local board that I was going into the Peace Corps and I don't know what classification they gave me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Deferment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that what it is? But, you know, I don't remember these letters and numbers. I was 1-A I know that in terms of health and so on all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the assumption is your board was not required to, but they could give you a deferment for Peace Corps service and most boards did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, and I guess my board did as we went down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that wasn't in your mind, particularly as as an issue?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1409188907098535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that what it is? But, you know, I don't remember these letters and numbers. I was 1-A I know that in terms of health and so on all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the assumption is your board was not required to, but they could give you a deferment for Peace Corps service and most boards did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, and I guess my board did as we went down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that wasn't in your mind, particularly as as an issue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not an issue at all. No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have home leave?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.823243211899837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, and I guess my board did as we went down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that wasn't in your mind, particularly as as an issue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not an issue at all. No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have home leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We had it we had a brief home leave to to get some gear together and so on. And then I think"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Mary from Chicago?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.581381346555374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not an issue at all. No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have home leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We had it we had a brief home leave to to get some gear together and so on. And then I think"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Mary from Chicago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Her parents were at the point when you're on home leave. What was the response of the families? Anyone say don't go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.423757051728193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We had it we had a brief home leave to to get some gear together and so on. And then I think"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Mary from Chicago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Her parents were at the point when you're on home leave. What was the response of the families? Anyone say don't go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But both families thought we were absolutely stone cold nuts for doing this. Mary was an only child, so her parents were particularly apprehensive about this. They thought it was just just wacko for us to be doing what we were doing. But while they would express their opinion, there was never any effort made to stop us. There was no bribery. There was no there were no threats. You know, if you go, we'll never speak again. You know, none of that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Mary was as committed to going as you were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.35973005747577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Her parents were at the point when you're on home leave. What was the response of the families? Anyone say don't go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But both families thought we were absolutely stone cold nuts for doing this. Mary was an only child, so her parents were particularly apprehensive about this. They thought it was just just wacko for us to be doing what we were doing. But while they would express their opinion, there was never any effort made to stop us. There was no bribery. There was no there were no threats. You know, if you go, we'll never speak again. You know, none of that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Mary was as committed to going as you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because sometimes there’s a."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.399700063861967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But both families thought we were absolutely stone cold nuts for doing this. Mary was an only child, so her parents were particularly apprehensive about this. They thought it was just just wacko for us to be doing what we were doing. But while they would express their opinion, there was never any effort made to stop us. There was no bribery. There was no there were no threats. You know, if you go, we'll never speak again. You know, none of that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Mary was as committed to going as you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because sometimes there’s a."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no, no. She was she was very definitely. She was a very, very active volunteer in in Chicago youth programs during undergraduate school. She was you know, she was in fact, I I think if you had to take the temperature of the two of us, I would say that Mary was probably even more committed than I was to the idea of the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So farewells in Chicago."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.22188895984663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because sometimes there’s a."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no, no. She was she was very definitely. She was a very, very active volunteer in in Chicago youth programs during undergraduate school. She was you know, she was in fact, I I think if you had to take the temperature of the two of us, I would say that Mary was probably even more committed than I was to the idea of the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So farewells in Chicago."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Farewells in Chicago. One day blue, I think, with the group in Miami and we all get on a plane and go to La Paz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, you want to talk about your initial you've never been to Bolivia. I never had to go get your initial response to being in the environment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.690987733162921, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no, no. She was she was very definitely. She was a very, very active volunteer in in Chicago youth programs during undergraduate school. She was you know, she was in fact, I I think if you had to take the temperature of the two of us, I would say that Mary was probably even more committed than I was to the idea of the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So farewells in Chicago."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Farewells in Chicago. One day blue, I think, with the group in Miami and we all get on a plane and go to La Paz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, you want to talk about your initial you've never been to Bolivia. I never had to go get your initial response to being in the environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initial response was superb because I think we wound up being the first volunteers getting off the plane and singing a song in Aymara in the airport. And I thought it was it was really very, very touching. The amazing thing was, Bob, that the Bolivians did not expect white faces to speak Aymara. I know it was an utter shock because you see, oh, although Aymara is one of the official languages and all those Spaniards I certainly speak it in Bolivia. No one owns up to being able to speak Aymara, no one who is mestizo, no one who is who is in the upper classes would even admit to that because it is almost as if it's a it's a badge of shame in a way. And here we were, singing a song, a folk song, at the airport and getting our photograph on the front page of the El Diario the following day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, let's talk briefly about the situation in Bolivia. Indigenous Aymara people in a distinctly subordinate role in the society?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.212208592403246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Farewells in Chicago. One day blue, I think, with the group in Miami and we all get on a plane and go to La Paz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, you want to talk about your initial you've never been to Bolivia. I never had to go get your initial response to being in the environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initial response was superb because I think we wound up being the first volunteers getting off the plane and singing a song in Aymara in the airport. And I thought it was it was really very, very touching. The amazing thing was, Bob, that the Bolivians did not expect white faces to speak Aymara. I know it was an utter shock because you see, oh, although Aymara is one of the official languages and all those Spaniards I certainly speak it in Bolivia. No one owns up to being able to speak Aymara, no one who is mestizo, no one who is who is in the upper classes would even admit to that because it is almost as if it's a it's a badge of shame in a way. And here we were, singing a song, a folk song, at the airport and getting our photograph on the front page of the El Diario the following day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, let's talk briefly about the situation in Bolivia. Indigenous Aymara people in a distinctly subordinate role in the society?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely. Just no question about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you know, you're singing that in Aymara is even doubly shocking."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.791342880448051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initial response was superb because I think we wound up being the first volunteers getting off the plane and singing a song in Aymara in the airport. And I thought it was it was really very, very touching. The amazing thing was, Bob, that the Bolivians did not expect white faces to speak Aymara. I know it was an utter shock because you see, oh, although Aymara is one of the official languages and all those Spaniards I certainly speak it in Bolivia. No one owns up to being able to speak Aymara, no one who is mestizo, no one who is who is in the upper classes would even admit to that because it is almost as if it's a it's a badge of shame in a way. And here we were, singing a song, a folk song, at the airport and getting our photograph on the front page of the El Diario the following day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, let's talk briefly about the situation in Bolivia. Indigenous Aymara people in a distinctly subordinate role in the society?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely. Just no question about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you know, you're singing that in Aymara is even doubly shocking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. Absolutely. And I can remember our first trips to the to the marketplace in La Paz. We just went there just to, you know, kind of check things out the open market, of course. And we would go in there, we would draw crowds because the word would travel through the market that there are white people here speaking Aymara. And, you know, for the most part, there may have been in and I don't mean to say that we were the first in the first because clearly I'll bet there were missionary groups ahead of us who have learned this. But nevertheless, it was it was unusual to see and hear non religiously affiliated people speaking about language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the arriving arrival was kind of a high, I mean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.434825422720056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely. Just no question about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you know, you're singing that in Aymara is even doubly shocking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. Absolutely. And I can remember our first trips to the to the marketplace in La Paz. We just went there just to, you know, kind of check things out the open market, of course. And we would go in there, we would draw crowds because the word would travel through the market that there are white people here speaking Aymara. And, you know, for the most part, there may have been in and I don't mean to say that we were the first in the first because clearly I'll bet there were missionary groups ahead of us who have learned this. But nevertheless, it was it was unusual to see and hear non religiously affiliated people speaking about language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the arriving arrival was kind of a high, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a complete high. Yeah. And we went off to the I think we spent maybe a night or two in La Paz and went off to the Ag station to begin our training with the ah with the rural community development workers from Bolivia who are our counterparts. We were going to join training with our counterparts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now let's talk about the structure of that training"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.149806025244507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. Absolutely. And I can remember our first trips to the to the marketplace in La Paz. We just went there just to, you know, kind of check things out the open market, of course. And we would go in there, we would draw crowds because the word would travel through the market that there are white people here speaking Aymara. And, you know, for the most part, there may have been in and I don't mean to say that we were the first in the first because clearly I'll bet there were missionary groups ahead of us who have learned this. But nevertheless, it was it was unusual to see and hear non religiously affiliated people speaking about language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the arriving arrival was kind of a high, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a complete high. Yeah. And we went off to the I think we spent maybe a night or two in La Paz and went off to the Ag station to begin our training with the ah with the rural community development workers from Bolivia who are our counterparts. We were going to join training with our counterparts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now let's talk about the structure of that training"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am weak on the structure of it, Bob. I think a bit of it was played by ear. Part of it was a getting to know. A lot of it had to do with very nuts and bolts things such as where on the Altiplano, these village level workers, which was the name given to these. And now all of these people were employees of the Bolivian government. Yeah, they were they were all paid employees of the Bolivian government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the community development?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.944228916938341, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a complete high. Yeah. And we went off to the I think we spent maybe a night or two in La Paz and went off to the Ag station to begin our training with the ah with the rural community development workers from Bolivia who are our counterparts. We were going to join training with our counterparts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now let's talk about the structure of that training"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am weak on the structure of it, Bob. I think a bit of it was played by ear. Part of it was a getting to know. A lot of it had to do with very nuts and bolts things such as where on the Altiplano, these village level workers, which was the name given to these. And now all of these people were employees of the Bolivian government. Yeah, they were they were all paid employees of the Bolivian government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the community development?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the rural community development program. And that is correct. The department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was their background? Were they high school trained, college trained?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.826921018820379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am weak on the structure of it, Bob. I think a bit of it was played by ear. Part of it was a getting to know. A lot of it had to do with very nuts and bolts things such as where on the Altiplano, these village level workers, which was the name given to these. And now all of these people were employees of the Bolivian government. Yeah, they were they were all paid employees of the Bolivian government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the community development?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the rural community development program. And that is correct. The department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was their background? Were they high school trained, college trained?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was it was all over the place. They were certainly Aymara. They were all they were agricultural. Yes, they were all Aymara. Every one of them, Aymara. They were all fluent in Aymara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of that of that culture?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.807690020911531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the rural community development program. And that is correct. The department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was their background? Were they high school trained, college trained?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was it was all over the place. They were certainly Aymara. They were all they were agricultural. Yes, they were all Aymara. Every one of them, Aymara. They were all fluent in Aymara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of that of that culture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of that culture, they came from, uh, from they were farmers essentially, and had maybe some some secondary education. I really don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had they done any previous training and training development before they became your counterpart?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.786322245457256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was it was all over the place. They were certainly Aymara. They were all they were agricultural. Yes, they were all Aymara. Every one of them, Aymara. They were all fluent in Aymara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of that of that culture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of that culture, they came from, uh, from they were farmers essentially, and had maybe some some secondary education. I really don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had they done any previous training and training development before they became your counterpart?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I believe that the Bolivian National Community Development Program had a training program for them before our arrival. So how long that had been? I really don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's back up just briefly. You know, if it with Peace Corps, if a group of people are in training to become teachers in the country, you know, at some point there usually a fair number of non teachers in the group, they'll do something to give you the team skills about teaching. Was there anything in training up to this point about community development, theoretically or specifically?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.495842471356891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, absolutely not. Two groups. And no, it's it's not that we were paired off with specific Bolivians. The whole idea was that all of us were to kind of mingle together because this was the beginning of the feeling out process where you want it to work. And the idea was that the Peace Corps was hoping that some village level workers would hit it off with us. We would hit it off with specific village level workers. And lo and behold, maybe during that 30 day period we had to select a site. We'd be going out to their particular communities and wanting to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So each of them had already came with a community identity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is correct. That is correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was extremely unlikely that they would choose to go outside of the area to work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, most definitely not. They were they were pretty much anchored in an area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of competition that would emerge? I mean, if I were one of the Bolivian workers, I'd say, well, I want to get that guy to come to my village because he's, you know, great."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.99538052372988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is correct. That is correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was extremely unlikely that they would choose to go outside of the area to work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, most definitely not. They were they were pretty much anchored in an area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of competition that would emerge? I mean, if I were one of the Bolivian workers, I'd say, well, I want to get that guy to come to my village because he's, you know, great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. There's no question about it. In fact, one of the one of the one with the fellows in in our group was a fellow by the name of Corey Schuss. And I believe Corey was from, was born either in Sweden or Norway, just as handsome as could be, probably six feet tall. This is fair Nordic skin and kind of the silver blond hair. I mean, the guy was a knockout. He came right from central casting. Well, let me tell you, because he was tall and because he was this handsome white man. There was a lot of competition for Corey. Corey never was never was at a loss for having a place. Let me tell you. Yes, there was competition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about what happened during the in-country training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.369520608682962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In-country training again, was we we learned and were taught a number of things like building a baking oven out of a five gallon alcohol can that could be balanced on top of a kerosene stove in which you could bake bread and and as a consequence, you'd be able to bake it. The the only real fuel on the Altiplano is essentially animal dung. All of the fires, all of the cook stoves in homes, that would just be a pile of animal dung on the floor. And this would be llamas and alpacas, essentially, and sheep excuse me, all three of those. And that would be it. Yeah. And the fumes from those fires are probably not the most healthful in the world, particularly when they're in a confined area. And as a consequence, the idea of baking on a on a little kerosene stove and being able to do it in this in these cans that were ultimately discards was really a treat. And one of the things we used to do in the courses was actually to bake bread while we were we were out in the course. And we were also introduced to the the program in cooperatives that the rural community development program had. We were introduced to things like the design of sheep and alpaca dips where animals would run down a ramp, run through a bath, and run up the other ramp to get rid of all of the insects and so on that were cheapening the wool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now these these things you were learning would be new to the Bolivians as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. I think in some ways they may have been new, but I couldn't say that for certain. I just don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had had Peace Corps been working in community development before you came?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They may have been working in community development, but I don't know if the shoulder to shoulder affiliation with the National Rural Community Development Program was as close as it was going to be with this group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were kind of going from square one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.855022898536625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. I think in some ways they may have been new, but I couldn't say that for certain. I just don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had had Peace Corps been working in community development before you came?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They may have been working in community development, but I don't know if the shoulder to shoulder affiliation with the National Rural Community Development Program was as close as it was going to be with this group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were kind of going from square one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it likely you would be going end up in a village where a Peace Corps volunteer had already been?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.394469887262916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They may have been working in community development, but I don't know if the shoulder to shoulder affiliation with the National Rural Community Development Program was as close as it was going to be with this group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were kind of going from square one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it likely you would be going end up in a village where a Peace Corps volunteer had already been?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were no no, there was no likelihood of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's any likelihood as you're in the middle of this. What's your feeling? I mean, you've joined you've been suddenly in Bolivia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.882744319181018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it likely you would be going end up in a village where a Peace Corps volunteer had already been?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were no no, there was no likelihood of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's any likelihood as you're in the middle of this. What's your feeling? I mean, you've joined you've been suddenly in Bolivia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, it was it was it was a it was a bit of a jar, but we were so busy and so active we were that we paid much attention to it. The one thing that was a bit shocking was to think that you were almost on the equator. And yet because of the altitude. Right. It was really chilly. You know, when you would get into the shade, it was chilly. And what altitude were you working? We were working pretty much in the depending upon where you were in probably 11,500 to 13,000 feet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, when you first got there, there must have been a real adjustment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.314160354645576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were no no, there was no likelihood of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's any likelihood as you're in the middle of this. What's your feeling? I mean, you've joined you've been suddenly in Bolivia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, it was it was it was a it was a bit of a jar, but we were so busy and so active we were that we paid much attention to it. The one thing that was a bit shocking was to think that you were almost on the equator. And yet because of the altitude. Right. It was really chilly. You know, when you would get into the shade, it was chilly. And what altitude were you working? We were working pretty much in the depending upon where you were in probably 11,500 to 13,000 feet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, when you first got there, there must have been a real adjustment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was we were we were in La Paz for a few days. We were given some pretty specific instructions about what to do and not do during that time. Yeah, one of the things was, oh, look, don't try to run up and down these streets because you're really going to it's going to be taxing go very easy on beer and wine or any kind of alcohol because you're going to get lightheaded very, very quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a smoker back then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.793511505161751, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, it was it was it was a it was a bit of a jar, but we were so busy and so active we were that we paid much attention to it. The one thing that was a bit shocking was to think that you were almost on the equator. And yet because of the altitude. Right. It was really chilly. You know, when you would get into the shade, it was chilly. And what altitude were you working? We were working pretty much in the depending upon where you were in probably 11,500 to 13,000 feet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, when you first got there, there must have been a real adjustment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was we were we were in La Paz for a few days. We were given some pretty specific instructions about what to do and not do during that time. Yeah, one of the things was, oh, look, don't try to run up and down these streets because you're really going to it's going to be taxing go very easy on beer and wine or any kind of alcohol because you're going to get lightheaded very, very quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a smoker back then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, no. So that was not an issue for me, but for other volunteers it was. And, you know, we all kind of paced ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For yourself, you remember there was an adjustment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.326123894624168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was we were we were in La Paz for a few days. We were given some pretty specific instructions about what to do and not do during that time. Yeah, one of the things was, oh, look, don't try to run up and down these streets because you're really going to it's going to be taxing go very easy on beer and wine or any kind of alcohol because you're going to get lightheaded very, very quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a smoker back then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, no. So that was not an issue for me, but for other volunteers it was. And, you know, we all kind of paced ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For yourself, you remember there was an adjustment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it wasn't a major problem?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.917915438471297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, no. So that was not an issue for me, but for other volunteers it was. And, you know, we all kind of paced ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For yourself, you remember there was an adjustment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it wasn't a major problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not significant. No, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk, what is it? Four week in-country training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.575461598301441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it wasn't a major problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not significant. No, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk, what is it? Four week in-country training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four week in-country training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about generally how it went and what what was the outcome?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.306068442557157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not significant. No, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk, what is it? Four week in-country training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four week in-country training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about generally how it went and what what was the outcome?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it went I think it went on balance very positively. There were a couple of volunteers for whom it became very clear that that Bolivia was not for them. And they essentially self selected out of the program. Right. And they were gone. So we we all made it through. It was it was an adjustment. And we still knew that we had an adjustment ahead of us because we had to go out and find our priorities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, during this period, were you working in any given day, mostly in Spanish or Aymara?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.117853825063508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four week in-country training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about generally how it went and what what was the outcome?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it went I think it went on balance very positively. There were a couple of volunteers for whom it became very clear that that Bolivia was not for them. And they essentially self selected out of the program. Right. And they were gone. So we we all made it through. It was it was an adjustment. And we still knew that we had an adjustment ahead of us because we had to go out and find our priorities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, during this period, were you working in any given day, mostly in Spanish or Aymara?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little combination of both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a chance to phase into using Aymara?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.019837583403897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it went I think it went on balance very positively. There were a couple of volunteers for whom it became very clear that that Bolivia was not for them. And they essentially self selected out of the program. Right. And they were gone. So we we all made it through. It was it was an adjustment. And we still knew that we had an adjustment ahead of us because we had to go out and find our priorities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, during this period, were you working in any given day, mostly in Spanish or Aymara?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little combination of both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a chance to phase into using Aymara?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not everyone had as much Aymara training as you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.022041759337663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little combination of both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a chance to phase into using Aymara?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not everyone had as much Aymara training as you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. Yeah, but it is difficult because it has it has some glottal stops in it. You do things. There are a few click kind of sounds in it. And, you know, it's it's tricky, but we certainly had the basics to get along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at any given site, you would likely find people who spoke, their first language might be Aymara, but there would be some Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.135601954819625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not everyone had as much Aymara training as you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. Yeah, but it is difficult because it has it has some glottal stops in it. You do things. There are a few click kind of sounds in it. And, you know, it's it's tricky, but we certainly had the basics to get along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at any given site, you would likely find people who spoke, their first language might be Aymara, but there would be some Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.372891060910694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. Yeah, but it is difficult because it has it has some glottal stops in it. You do things. There are a few click kind of sounds in it. And, you know, it's it's tricky, but we certainly had the basics to get along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at any given site, you would likely find people who spoke, their first language might be Aymara, but there would be some Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no English at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So someone who had not picked up on either of the languages terribly well would have a difficult time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.747656734345215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no English at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So someone who had not picked up on either of the languages terribly well would have a difficult time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think quite difficult, yes. Yes. I should backtrack for a moment when I said no English and I'm going to get ahead of myself just for a moment. But ultimately, the work location that we chose was headed by a a provincial director, a Bolivian who did speak some English. It was it was halting, but he did speak some English from his background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your Spanish was pretty good?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.27517414927246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no English at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So someone who had not picked up on either of the languages terribly well would have a difficult time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think quite difficult, yes. Yes. I should backtrack for a moment when I said no English and I'm going to get ahead of myself just for a moment. But ultimately, the work location that we chose was headed by a a provincial director, a Bolivian who did speak some English. It was it was halting, but he did speak some English from his background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your Spanish was pretty good?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aymara as well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.972415721413846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think quite difficult, yes. Yes. I should backtrack for a moment when I said no English and I'm going to get ahead of myself just for a moment. But ultimately, the work location that we chose was headed by a a provincial director, a Bolivian who did speak some English. It was it was halting, but he did speak some English from his background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your Spanish was pretty good?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aymara as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's during the course of training would emerge as far as. What you were going to be doing, where you were going to be doing it and with whom?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.74712857934872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aymara as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's during the course of training would emerge as far as. What you were going to be doing, where you were going to be doing it and with whom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we knew pretty much what we were going to be doing and what it was was this we were in conjunction with village level workers. We were going to be designing a let's say, a two or a three day course that we could take on the road and go to a community, present the program and introduce to that community the National Community Development Program and what it could do with and for them. Yeah, that's really what we were so to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who did you finally pick or who finally picked you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 17.496809532609685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's during the course of training would emerge as far as. What you were going to be doing, where you were going to be doing it and with whom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we knew pretty much what we were going to be doing and what it was was this we were in conjunction with village level workers. We were going to be designing a let's say, a two or a three day course that we could take on the road and go to a community, present the program and introduce to that community the National Community Development Program and what it could do with and for them. Yeah, that's really what we were so to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who did you finally pick or who finally picked you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when we first of all, our training ended at the with the with our Bolivian counterparts, we were we were brought back to La Paz. There was a little ceremony at the hotel in La Paz. We was sworn in and I think it was maybe the next day or two we were on the road and we started to travel to about three or four communities. And that would mean going down either to the bus station or, the big means of transportation on the Altiplano is truck, get onto these huge International Harvester stake bed trucks and so on, that we're hauling all sorts of produce and so on, or by train. And I think we probably visited three or four communities"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At this point, your counterparts are back in their village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.09588406128591, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, Bob. Pacajes was a large, large province. And it was, the population was dispersed. The Aymara lived in some communities, but they are also pretty widely dispersed in the Altiplano. So you had this combination of things, but he lobbied us and we decided that the four of us know what the living arrangements that we ultimately worked out was that Mary and I and John lived together and Steve lived down the street at another place. He just had a single room for himself, but he came over and took most of his meals with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who provided the housing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no one provided the housing. We were renters. We actually negotiated and paid rent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's you make the decision to go to this town, right. And you pack it up in La Paz and then go out with everything and start looking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we don't. What we do is we first get a place to live. And we worked with Clemente Alcon, who was the head of the community development program. And he put us in touch with a woman who owned some buildings right on the town square. And we negotiated and he it was a compound actually around an open patio. And the family that lived in La Paz and owned this building on this came out from time to time. But for the most part, we had the run of the patio. There was a well in the patio, which was nice and important for us. Yeah, it was also a latrine outback that we were able to use after modifying it in, enhancing it a little bit. So it was it was it was going to be really quite comfortable for us. And also in this province, there were there were let me count the other volunteers that were three other volunteers that selected this province but lived in different communities within the province."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the province subdivided into districts?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.106537845873232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no one provided the housing. We were renters. We actually negotiated and paid rent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's you make the decision to go to this town, right. And you pack it up in La Paz and then go out with everything and start looking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we don't. What we do is we first get a place to live. And we worked with Clemente Alcon, who was the head of the community development program. And he put us in touch with a woman who owned some buildings right on the town square. And we negotiated and he it was a compound actually around an open patio. And the family that lived in La Paz and owned this building on this came out from time to time. But for the most part, we had the run of the patio. There was a well in the patio, which was nice and important for us. Yeah, it was also a latrine outback that we were able to use after modifying it in, enhancing it a little bit. So it was it was it was going to be really quite comfortable for us. And also in this province, there were there were let me count the other volunteers that were three other volunteers that selected this province but lived in different communities within the province."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the province subdivided into districts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that we were aware of or that was particularly noteworthy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the background of the the regional director who you went to work for?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.11837538430359, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we don't. What we do is we first get a place to live. And we worked with Clemente Alcon, who was the head of the community development program. And he put us in touch with a woman who owned some buildings right on the town square. And we negotiated and he it was a compound actually around an open patio. And the family that lived in La Paz and owned this building on this came out from time to time. But for the most part, we had the run of the patio. There was a well in the patio, which was nice and important for us. Yeah, it was also a latrine outback that we were able to use after modifying it in, enhancing it a little bit. So it was it was it was going to be really quite comfortable for us. And also in this province, there were there were let me count the other volunteers that were three other volunteers that selected this province but lived in different communities within the province."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the province subdivided into districts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that we were aware of or that was particularly noteworthy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the background of the the regional director who you went to work for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The regional director was an interesting guy. He actually he was a Bolivian who spent a lot of time in the Yungas, which are the the valleys as you go down into the lowlands of Bolivia. But they are they are at a high enough altitude to be very pleasant from a temperature standpoint. Coffee is grown down in this area. But he was very active politically. He had been he had gotten some of these scarves along the way, but he had been quite an activist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just generally, what was the political situation in Bolivia while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.798194871448433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that we were aware of or that was particularly noteworthy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the background of the the regional director who you went to work for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The regional director was an interesting guy. He actually he was a Bolivian who spent a lot of time in the Yungas, which are the the valleys as you go down into the lowlands of Bolivia. But they are they are at a high enough altitude to be very pleasant from a temperature standpoint. Coffee is grown down in this area. But he was very active politically. He had been he had gotten some of these scarves along the way, but he had been quite an activist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just generally, what was the political situation in Bolivia while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Political situation in Bolivia was relatively quiet when we arrived. I believe the president at the time was General Rene Barrientos. And the interesting thing about Barrientos is that he was an Indian and that was an unusual thing. And in Latin America, the rule generally is that there are there are two paths for an Indian to upward mobility. One of them is the military, of course. And General Barrientos became a general in the Air Force. And, of course, that is that's the cream of the crop. You know, that's cutting edge. And these people fly planes. My God. You know, no one in Bolivia has been on a plane or very few have, right, so it's a position of prominence. And the other way to to achieve upward mobility, if you're an Indian, is to do it through the clergy. You go off to a seminary and maybe you become a bishop or something of that later. But those are two definite paths to upward mobility. He was the president when we arrived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was relatively stable and tended to be pro-American or neutral?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.281722063516583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Political situation in Bolivia was relatively quiet when we arrived. I believe the president at the time was General Rene Barrientos. And the interesting thing about Barrientos is that he was an Indian and that was an unusual thing. And in Latin America, the rule generally is that there are there are two paths for an Indian to upward mobility. One of them is the military, of course. And General Barrientos became a general in the Air Force. And, of course, that is that's the cream of the crop. You know, that's cutting edge. And these people fly planes. My God. You know, no one in Bolivia has been on a plane or very few have, right, so it's a position of prominence. And the other way to to achieve upward mobility, if you're an Indian, is to do it through the clergy. You go off to a seminary and maybe you become a bishop or something of that later. But those are two definite paths to upward mobility. He was the president when we arrived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was relatively stable and tended to be pro-American or neutral?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or I think it was it was cautiously pro-American, but not fawning. So they weren't they weren't bending over backwards. But they I think what they were doing, they knew that there were some advantages economically, politically to to at least being non inimical to the to the states. And they were now Bolivia is a country with a very, very checkered history. And the statistic when we arrived was this, there have been more presidents of Bolivia than years of independence of Bolivia since it became a republic. You know, a very, very tumultuous place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's get you to work, though. You you've settled in. You have a place to stay. Talk about the, after that at that for the first few weeks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, first few weeks, you know, we kind of get ourselves settled in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it an office you go to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.979691181685093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or I think it was it was cautiously pro-American, but not fawning. So they weren't they weren't bending over backwards. But they I think what they were doing, they knew that there were some advantages economically, politically to to at least being non inimical to the to the states. And they were now Bolivia is a country with a very, very checkered history. And the statistic when we arrived was this, there have been more presidents of Bolivia than years of independence of Bolivia since it became a republic. You know, a very, very tumultuous place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's get you to work, though. You you've settled in. You have a place to stay. Talk about the, after that at that for the first few weeks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, first few weeks, you know, we kind of get ourselves settled in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it an office you go to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Absolutely not. There is no, because Clemente worked out of his home. There really is not, there's no formal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's no fancy ministry office?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6441013129834365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, first few weeks, you know, we kind of get ourselves settled in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it an office you go to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Absolutely not. There is no, because Clemente worked out of his home. There really is not, there's no formal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's no fancy ministry office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely not. No, no, no. Calacoto was really pretty down and out. Calacoto did have a very large church. And there was a priest from Spain who resided in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the town, were there are other non Bolivians?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.382334792203818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Absolutely not. There is no, because Clemente worked out of his home. There really is not, there's no formal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's no fancy ministry office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely not. No, no, no. Calacoto was really pretty down and out. Calacoto did have a very large church. And there was a priest from Spain who resided in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the town, were there are other non Bolivians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So maybe other than the priest, you know, just the people in the in the town, there were maybe two little grocery stores we went around to, you know, introduce ourselves, get ourselves known."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What could you buy at the grocery store?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9803719913375755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely not. No, no, no. Calacoto was really pretty down and out. Calacoto did have a very large church. And there was a priest from Spain who resided in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the town, were there are other non Bolivians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So maybe other than the priest, you know, just the people in the in the town, there were maybe two little grocery stores we went around to, you know, introduce ourselves, get ourselves known."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What could you buy at the grocery store?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could buy rice. You could buy breads that were with that were baked locally. You could buy beer, you could buy things like shampoo, some personal needs. But they were very, very small shops, tiny places. So we got to know them. And then Clemente, we would get into his his truck and he took us around to some communities. All four of you. All four of us. That's right. Now, Steve Jeffries, who did not live with with Mary, John and me. Steve was the baby of the group. He was nineteen years old, but he was a farm boy from East Tennessee. So believe it or not, Steve was the only one who really knew his way around because John was from San Francisco. Liberal education, Mary and I, both from Chicago. What do we know about farming? Yeah, nothing at all. So, Clemente kind of takes us around and shows us how, you know, the newly arrived gringos, kind of explains to local communities what we could do. And pretty quickly, invitations start to roll in to us, come out to our community and give one of your courses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, where is your counterpart or is Clemente your counterpart?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.644857768152861, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So maybe other than the priest, you know, just the people in the in the town, there were maybe two little grocery stores we went around to, you know, introduce ourselves, get ourselves known."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What could you buy at the grocery store?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could buy rice. You could buy breads that were with that were baked locally. You could buy beer, you could buy things like shampoo, some personal needs. But they were very, very small shops, tiny places. So we got to know them. And then Clemente, we would get into his his truck and he took us around to some communities. All four of you. All four of us. That's right. Now, Steve Jeffries, who did not live with with Mary, John and me. Steve was the baby of the group. He was nineteen years old, but he was a farm boy from East Tennessee. So believe it or not, Steve was the only one who really knew his way around because John was from San Francisco. Liberal education, Mary and I, both from Chicago. What do we know about farming? Yeah, nothing at all. So, Clemente kind of takes us around and shows us how, you know, the newly arrived gringos, kind of explains to local communities what we could do. And pretty quickly, invitations start to roll in to us, come out to our community and give one of your courses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, where is your counterpart or is Clemente your counterpart?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, Clemente is really our counterpart reporting directly to him near the village level, workers with whom we had our in-country training. So we are actually dealing kind of at one level above the village level work. Right. But the idea was we did that not for any kind of prestige, but for our ability to be able to get to all of the different communities, because the village level workers, they competed among themselves, of course, and they'd be knocking on Clemente’s door saying, Clemente, come on, send the gringos out to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, as he went out to these villages, did you encounter village level workers with whom you had done that in country training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.3831752979476235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could buy rice. You could buy breads that were with that were baked locally. You could buy beer, you could buy things like shampoo, some personal needs. But they were very, very small shops, tiny places. So we got to know them. And then Clemente, we would get into his his truck and he took us around to some communities. All four of you. All four of us. That's right. Now, Steve Jeffries, who did not live with with Mary, John and me. Steve was the baby of the group. He was nineteen years old, but he was a farm boy from East Tennessee. So believe it or not, Steve was the only one who really knew his way around because John was from San Francisco. Liberal education, Mary and I, both from Chicago. What do we know about farming? Yeah, nothing at all. So, Clemente kind of takes us around and shows us how, you know, the newly arrived gringos, kind of explains to local communities what we could do. And pretty quickly, invitations start to roll in to us, come out to our community and give one of your courses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, where is your counterpart or is Clemente your counterpart?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, Clemente is really our counterpart reporting directly to him near the village level, workers with whom we had our in-country training. So we are actually dealing kind of at one level above the village level work. Right. But the idea was we did that not for any kind of prestige, but for our ability to be able to get to all of the different communities, because the village level workers, they competed among themselves, of course, and they'd be knocking on Clemente’s door saying, Clemente, come on, send the gringos out to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, as he went out to these villages, did you encounter village level workers with whom you had done that in country training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely. We most certainly did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were some connections there already?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.203528108830692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, Clemente is really our counterpart reporting directly to him near the village level, workers with whom we had our in-country training. So we are actually dealing kind of at one level above the village level work. Right. But the idea was we did that not for any kind of prestige, but for our ability to be able to get to all of the different communities, because the village level workers, they competed among themselves, of course, and they'd be knocking on Clemente’s door saying, Clemente, come on, send the gringos out to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, as he went out to these villages, did you encounter village level workers with whom you had done that in country training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely. We most certainly did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were some connections there already?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. And they were they were"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about your first trip. Did you and Mary do work together all the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.115031232034102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely. We most certainly did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were some connections there already?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. And they were they were"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about your first trip. Did you and Mary do work together all the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. Actually, Mary, John, Steve, and I would go out. The four of us would go out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it would always be the four of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.01670136892678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. And they were they were"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about your first trip. Did you and Mary do work together all the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. Actually, Mary, John, Steve, and I would go out. The four of us would go out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it would always be the four of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would always be the four of us. And here's what here's what the deal was. We essentially had to pack up everything to sustain life during those three or four days because we were usually given the local school in which to live. Or some abandoned building somewhere in the community. So we would bring everything. We would bring food. We would bring we would bring our sleeping bags. We would bring maybe inflatable mattresses to to put on the floor. But we essentially moved our household out there and we lived in that community for the time we were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe one of the early visits to a community where you stayed for a couple of days?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.018557076585312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. Actually, Mary, John, Steve, and I would go out. The four of us would go out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it would always be the four of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would always be the four of us. And here's what here's what the deal was. We essentially had to pack up everything to sustain life during those three or four days because we were usually given the local school in which to live. Or some abandoned building somewhere in the community. So we would bring everything. We would bring food. We would bring we would bring our sleeping bags. We would bring maybe inflatable mattresses to to put on the floor. But we essentially moved our household out there and we lived in that community for the time we were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe one of the early visits to a community where you stayed for a couple of days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From your point of view, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.131730085094791, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would always be the four of us. And here's what here's what the deal was. We essentially had to pack up everything to sustain life during those three or four days because we were usually given the local school in which to live. Or some abandoned building somewhere in the community. So we would bring everything. We would bring food. We would bring we would bring our sleeping bags. We would bring maybe inflatable mattresses to to put on the floor. But we essentially moved our household out there and we lived in that community for the time we were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe one of the early visits to a community where you stayed for a couple of days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From your point of view, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, we would we would go out there and the first time it happened, I guess it was a little it was a little challenging because we unloaded our stuff from the from Clemente's truck and we moved in to the to the schoolhouse or whatever the abandoned building was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You remember what village it was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.035255650105324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From your point of view, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, we would we would go out there and the first time it happened, I guess it was a little it was a little challenging because we unloaded our stuff from the from Clemente's truck and we moved in to the to the schoolhouse or whatever the abandoned building was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You remember what village it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I really do not. I'm sorry. I just do not think and and it would then say to us, hey, I'll be back here on Sunday by 12:00 noon or so and I'll pick you up. And there we were. And that's what we had no means of communication. There was nothing. We are really on our own. We had our Peace Corps medical kits. Of course, they were all assigned, but we were nowhere. There were there were no telephones, no communication whatsoever. So we would get ourselves settled in the village level. Worker would often come over and just see that we were OK. One of the things one of the big lessons of Peace Corps for all of us was this. You've got to have somewhere a decent supply of water. So that was really the only question that we would have when we arrived. And I will tell you that the quality of water very dramatically up on the Altiplano and most of the time when we traveled the water was really pretty bad. And but, hey, we made do. We had iodine tablets and our plastic bottles. We did that. We would boil some water for making tea or coffee, the usual things, and then we would arrange with the village level work where we were going to be doing the little presentations. We had a motorcycle battery that we always traveled with that powered a little 35 millimeter slide projector and we did a manual slide show."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me what kind of presentations you were making."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.03917294456147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, we would we would go out there and the first time it happened, I guess it was a little it was a little challenging because we unloaded our stuff from the from Clemente's truck and we moved in to the to the schoolhouse or whatever the abandoned building was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You remember what village it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I really do not. I'm sorry. I just do not think and and it would then say to us, hey, I'll be back here on Sunday by 12:00 noon or so and I'll pick you up. And there we were. And that's what we had no means of communication. There was nothing. We are really on our own. We had our Peace Corps medical kits. Of course, they were all assigned, but we were nowhere. There were there were no telephones, no communication whatsoever. So we would get ourselves settled in the village level. Worker would often come over and just see that we were OK. One of the things one of the big lessons of Peace Corps for all of us was this. You've got to have somewhere a decent supply of water. So that was really the only question that we would have when we arrived. And I will tell you that the quality of water very dramatically up on the Altiplano and most of the time when we traveled the water was really pretty bad. And but, hey, we made do. We had iodine tablets and our plastic bottles. We did that. We would boil some water for making tea or coffee, the usual things, and then we would arrange with the village level work where we were going to be doing the little presentations. We had a motorcycle battery that we always traveled with that powered a little 35 millimeter slide projector and we did a manual slide show."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me what kind of presentations you were making."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were doing presentations on how communities would put together a sheet dip, for example, or an alpaca dip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you know, say to make a presentation on sheep dip? How did you know that there was a need in the community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.159472771063543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were doing presentations on how communities would put together a sheet dip, for example, or an alpaca dip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you know, say to make a presentation on sheep dip? How did you know that there was a need in the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's the way we did. We essentially had a kind of a set format. And what it what we were doing with these courses, remember, was trying to introduce the people to the National Community Development Program in Bolivia because it was essentially new to to the people that we were visiting. So what we were doing was trying to excite some interest in the community by indicating the kinds of projects that the community would begin if they so chose. So in effect, what we were doing was almost presenting a menu of some possibilities that the community could do while also doing things. John, Steve, for example, Steve Jefferies, our farm boy from East Tennessee, would be the one who would talk about the use of fertilizers and would have some slides on showing results in how the crops changed and so on. And comparative examples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was all this going on in Aymara?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is going on in a combination, but I would have to say it was mostly Spanish and there were times in a lot of it had to depend on the audience. The audience would be fluent in Spanish in some communities, and so we and others and oftentimes the community would like to speak Spanish because it helped them in other areas within their life in the country. So they weren't concerned about that. But in communities excuse me, where my motto was really the norm, what we would do is we would do Spanish and then the village level worker would very often do a translation into Aymara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now it was the village level worker who got the crowd together."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.399414190070603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's the way we did. We essentially had a kind of a set format. And what it what we were doing with these courses, remember, was trying to introduce the people to the National Community Development Program in Bolivia because it was essentially new to to the people that we were visiting. So what we were doing was trying to excite some interest in the community by indicating the kinds of projects that the community would begin if they so chose. So in effect, what we were doing was almost presenting a menu of some possibilities that the community could do while also doing things. John, Steve, for example, Steve Jefferies, our farm boy from East Tennessee, would be the one who would talk about the use of fertilizers and would have some slides on showing results in how the crops changed and so on. And comparative examples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was all this going on in Aymara?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is going on in a combination, but I would have to say it was mostly Spanish and there were times in a lot of it had to depend on the audience. The audience would be fluent in Spanish in some communities, and so we and others and oftentimes the community would like to speak Spanish because it helped them in other areas within their life in the country. So they weren't concerned about that. But in communities excuse me, where my motto was really the norm, what we would do is we would do Spanish and then the village level worker would very often do a translation into Aymara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now it was the village level worker who got the crowd together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did he say to people to identify the four of you? Who do people think you were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.666015766745113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is going on in a combination, but I would have to say it was mostly Spanish and there were times in a lot of it had to depend on the audience. The audience would be fluent in Spanish in some communities, and so we and others and oftentimes the community would like to speak Spanish because it helped them in other areas within their life in the country. So they weren't concerned about that. But in communities excuse me, where my motto was really the norm, what we would do is we would do Spanish and then the village level worker would very often do a translation into Aymara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now it was the village level worker who got the crowd together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did he say to people to identify the four of you? Who do people think you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "People all knew that we were members of the Peace Corps. We were Voluntarios del Cuerpo de Paz. That's what we were introduced and we were introduced as Peace Corps volunteers working with the National Community Development Program. It's not as if they dressed us up as being Bolivians who were working with the community. No, we were clearly we were from the United States and we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then in some ways it almost seems like your appearance in the presentations it's holding up, you know, the stick and the carrot that if people agreed with you, then money might come from the government."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.073350851939015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did he say to people to identify the four of you? Who do people think you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "People all knew that we were members of the Peace Corps. We were Voluntarios del Cuerpo de Paz. That's what we were introduced and we were introduced as Peace Corps volunteers working with the National Community Development Program. It's not as if they dressed us up as being Bolivians who were working with the community. No, we were clearly we were from the United States and we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then in some ways it almost seems like your appearance in the presentations it's holding up, you know, the stick and the carrot that if people agreed with you, then money might come from the government."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first of all, as you were pointing out earlier, so you do a slide presentation on sheep dip. What if they didn't want a sheep dip? If they didn't want a sheep dip, that they wouldn't build the sheep dip. But again, the Peace Corps turned back at that time was really identifying the felt needs of the community. And really, it was part of that was the village level workers’ task, to identify what do we want to organize around? What is it? Is it that we've got to put a new roof on the school? Is it that we want to build a sheep dip?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But who's doing the needs assessment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.637056502154461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People all knew that we were members of the Peace Corps. We were Voluntarios del Cuerpo de Paz. That's what we were introduced and we were introduced as Peace Corps volunteers working with the National Community Development Program. It's not as if they dressed us up as being Bolivians who were working with the community. No, we were clearly we were from the United States and we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then in some ways it almost seems like your appearance in the presentations it's holding up, you know, the stick and the carrot that if people agreed with you, then money might come from the government."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first of all, as you were pointing out earlier, so you do a slide presentation on sheep dip. What if they didn't want a sheep dip? If they didn't want a sheep dip, that they wouldn't build the sheep dip. But again, the Peace Corps turned back at that time was really identifying the felt needs of the community. And really, it was part of that was the village level workers’ task, to identify what do we want to organize around? What is it? Is it that we've got to put a new roof on the school? Is it that we want to build a sheep dip?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But who's doing the needs assessment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's being done apart from us. That's really being done with the village of a worker and the and the community. What we are doing is essentially saying to the community, these are some of the things that can be done with the with the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, I mean, and how many villages in the course of the first six months that you visit?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.374507224616067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first of all, as you were pointing out earlier, so you do a slide presentation on sheep dip. What if they didn't want a sheep dip? If they didn't want a sheep dip, that they wouldn't build the sheep dip. But again, the Peace Corps turned back at that time was really identifying the felt needs of the community. And really, it was part of that was the village level workers’ task, to identify what do we want to organize around? What is it? Is it that we've got to put a new roof on the school? Is it that we want to build a sheep dip?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But who's doing the needs assessment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's being done apart from us. That's really being done with the village of a worker and the and the community. What we are doing is essentially saying to the community, these are some of the things that can be done with the with the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, I mean, and how many villages in the course of the first six months that you visit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say that within the first six months, we probably did. I bet we probably did, we probably did 12, 13, something like that. I mean, we were on the road a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I would think your reception would vary based on the competence or the zealousness of the village level worker."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.305008027351185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's being done apart from us. That's really being done with the village of a worker and the and the community. What we are doing is essentially saying to the community, these are some of the things that can be done with the with the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, I mean, and how many villages in the course of the first six months that you visit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say that within the first six months, we probably did. I bet we probably did, we probably did 12, 13, something like that. I mean, we were on the road a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I would think your reception would vary based on the competence or the zealousness of the village level worker."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's let's set that aside for a moment to come back to where you're living. You must have had some free time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 21.450008919279092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say that within the first six months, we probably did. I bet we probably did, we probably did 12, 13, something like that. I mean, we were on the road a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I would think your reception would vary based on the competence or the zealousness of the village level worker."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's let's set that aside for a moment to come back to where you're living. You must have had some free time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes, absolutely was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do with your free time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.05556546586566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's let's set that aside for a moment to come back to where you're living. You must have had some free time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes, absolutely was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do with your free time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Free time? A couple of things done. Mary tried to start a garden in in the soil. Now, mind you, this is this is very high in altitude. It is very cold at night. And among the few things that grow well on the Altiplano are tubers. They have to be in the ground. Right, because that's the only way they're going to survive. So it's it's a kind of potato crop. There are so many varieties of potato. It's potato in Bolivia is a little bit like snow to the Eskimo because, you know, what do they say? There’s like 75 different words to describe different kinds of snow. And will be about 75 different kinds of potatoes. They went from almost black, purple to pure white and red and yellows and everything in between. So that was that was one of the things. Another thing we did was we actually I mentioned there were three other volunteers in the same province. That we were we would we would travel back and forth by bicycle. And it was it would be a several mile trip. But one of the volunteers was an architect, Harvard trained architect, in fact. And he came down and spent a couple of days with us. And what we did was we actually improved our living situation somewhat. He actually, he liked Mary very much. And he he set up a water tank where Mary actually had a sink with a spigot of water inside because we put a water tank up close to the roof and on. And he had the I mean, it was just a simple gravity system. We have to carry buckets up there who we remember his name. His name was Ray Warburton. And we see Ray to this very day, to 2009."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the three plus one of you were living. Did Mary inevitably become the cook?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.254633833470518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. The deal was this with our Peace Corps group, every month we got to come in to La Paz. We picked up our pay and we got to shop. Because the Altiplano was really thin, with respect to food supplies. So we would we would go into La Paz, we'd stop at the Peace Corps office. We pick up our pay. We would we would maybe spend two days in La Paz each month. And if we needed to do anything with the Peace Corps, we pick up mail also. That was the only way we got any mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no formal training or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No no formal training. We had, I think one in-country training program, took place down in Cochabamba. I think maybe after our first year I could it was a year in. We got booster shots for all of our different things. And that was the only."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mid-service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mid-service, right. Something like that. But we would be into La Paz every month. And we are, as I say, what we learned to do in the marketplace is, we would buy a single integral and by integral, I mean, non-sliced hunk of beef, let's say, because that was you would just let it dry on the outside, which acted as kind of a preservative, and we would carry that out. We had a little darkroom where we could just let it sit on a piece of wood and it would dry. But, you know, eventually, by the time the end of the month would come, we were we were our food supply was was usually pretty thin because we only had enough canned goods, maybe to last a month and we'd be recycling back into the into the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Generally speaking, how was your health during the first year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.886196972215387, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, our our real friendship was with Clemente Alcon, who was the province chief of the community development program. I mean, we spent a good deal of time with him and with his older son, Tocio. And Tocio at that point was probably maybe nine years old or something like that. And Clemente's first wife, that is Tocio’s mother, had died. She became ill and died. Clemente remarried and had two sons by his second wife. So it was a blended family and they lived just about two or three doors down from us. And he was really our principal source of information about the community development program, how we were scheduling our trips and so on. I mean, it was really fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But on a weekend, did you go out to a nightclub, a bar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were no bars. There were no nightclubs. There was nothing. I mean, a population of this town, just to put it into perspective, Bob, was. You know, if there were if there were 50 people and you were talking a lot, but when festival time would come apart, that while they would come out of the woodwork from everywhere, they would travel from other parts of the country to come back to the Altiplano. But many people, you know, the Altiplano was abandoned in many ways because farmers especially wanted to go to the Yungas where the rain was more fertile, the climate was much more hospitable, and they just wanted to get away from the Altiplano because prospects there were not very, very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a population that was diminishing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, most definitely. Most definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And yet you were still doing the community development up there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.317996635794875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were no bars. There were no nightclubs. There was nothing. I mean, a population of this town, just to put it into perspective, Bob, was. You know, if there were if there were 50 people and you were talking a lot, but when festival time would come apart, that while they would come out of the woodwork from everywhere, they would travel from other parts of the country to come back to the Altiplano. But many people, you know, the Altiplano was abandoned in many ways because farmers especially wanted to go to the Yungas where the rain was more fertile, the climate was much more hospitable, and they just wanted to get away from the Altiplano because prospects there were not very, very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a population that was diminishing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, most definitely. Most definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And yet you were still doing the community development up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Actually, it was it still wanted to be done because, look, there were still going to be shepherds who were going to raise alpaca and sheep. That was a that was a big food source in Bolivia. So it wasn't important. It was an important aspect, although not a huge aspect to the economy. It was still important"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you come to the end of the first year. Was there any break between first and second year? Did you take vacation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.908885150883194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, most definitely. Most definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And yet you were still doing the community development up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Actually, it was it still wanted to be done because, look, there were still going to be shepherds who were going to raise alpaca and sheep. That was a that was a big food source in Bolivia. So it wasn't important. It was an important aspect, although not a huge aspect to the economy. It was still important"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you come to the end of the first year. Was there any break between first and second year? Did you take vacation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we did. We went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You and Mary?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.120983500981326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Actually, it was it still wanted to be done because, look, there were still going to be shepherds who were going to raise alpaca and sheep. That was a that was a big food source in Bolivia. So it wasn't important. It was an important aspect, although not a huge aspect to the economy. It was still important"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you come to the end of the first year. Was there any break between first and second year? Did you take vacation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we did. We went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You and Mary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we actually we would go as a group. We traveled. We were really very, very close. And we were very close with these with the other volunteers. But we traveled all the way down to the Lake District in Chile. We went to Santiago, of course, and then we went to Santiago south to Puerto Montt, right on the coast of Chile. And then we went up into the lake region, crossing into Argentina. And then we took one of the longest bus rides we ever took. And that is from almost southern Argentina all the way up to Buenos Aires. I don't know how many hours it was. But when we arrived in Buenos Aires, you couldn't see our ankles. We were just swollen as could be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And there was the mid-year conference."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.467759445534806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we did. We went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You and Mary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we actually we would go as a group. We traveled. We were really very, very close. And we were very close with these with the other volunteers. But we traveled all the way down to the Lake District in Chile. We went to Santiago, of course, and then we went to Santiago south to Puerto Montt, right on the coast of Chile. And then we went up into the lake region, crossing into Argentina. And then we took one of the longest bus rides we ever took. And that is from almost southern Argentina all the way up to Buenos Aires. I don't know how many hours it was. But when we arrived in Buenos Aires, you couldn't see our ankles. We were just swollen as could be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And there was the mid-year conference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mid-year conference, yes. In Cochabamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any startling anything come out of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.96417716170534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we actually we would go as a group. We traveled. We were really very, very close. And we were very close with these with the other volunteers. But we traveled all the way down to the Lake District in Chile. We went to Santiago, of course, and then we went to Santiago south to Puerto Montt, right on the coast of Chile. And then we went up into the lake region, crossing into Argentina. And then we took one of the longest bus rides we ever took. And that is from almost southern Argentina all the way up to Buenos Aires. I don't know how many hours it was. But when we arrived in Buenos Aires, you couldn't see our ankles. We were just swollen as could be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And there was the mid-year conference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mid-year conference, yes. In Cochabamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any startling anything come out of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were other people in the group having tended to have the same experience as you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.515752401894822, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mid-year conference, yes. In Cochabamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any startling anything come out of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were other people in the group having tended to have the same experience as you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they were although some of them had some health problems had developed. That young man Corey I told you about before, the handsome Scandinavian. I think, Corey, I think the rule was that if you if you had a double attack of hepatitis, I think you were excused at that point because your system was so compromised. I think Corey may have come down with a second bout of hepatitis, but he was he was really he was unfortunate in that. But, you know, for the most part, we stayed healthy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are OK now when you're going into your second year, you know, and at that point you can see that your tour is going to come. And one of the things I wondered whether you had any measure by which you could have some sense of achievement or closure. I mean, you've just described the process going out to the villages, making the presentations. But at some point you want to build a latrine or you want to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.155249878882493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they were although some of them had some health problems had developed. That young man Corey I told you about before, the handsome Scandinavian. I think, Corey, I think the rule was that if you if you had a double attack of hepatitis, I think you were excused at that point because your system was so compromised. I think Corey may have come down with a second bout of hepatitis, but he was he was really he was unfortunate in that. But, you know, for the most part, we stayed healthy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are OK now when you're going into your second year, you know, and at that point you can see that your tour is going to come. And one of the things I wondered whether you had any measure by which you could have some sense of achievement or closure. I mean, you've just described the process going out to the villages, making the presentations. But at some point you want to build a latrine or you want to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. But you know what Bob? That's the interesting thing about being the first in. We were told that we were really not going to see and we were not expecting to see any of quote our pet projects go anywhere. Compared to Ray Warburton, who was up in a community north of us, and his community, they got together and they built a school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, but but Ray was not on the road as we were, right? Because we were we were essentially the shills. You know, we were the ones who passed out the leaflets in a way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your second year was pretty much the same pattern?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.283610976536103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. But you know what Bob? That's the interesting thing about being the first in. We were told that we were really not going to see and we were not expecting to see any of quote our pet projects go anywhere. Compared to Ray Warburton, who was up in a community north of us, and his community, they got together and they built a school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, but but Ray was not on the road as we were, right? Because we were we were essentially the shills. You know, we were the ones who passed out the leaflets in a way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your second year was pretty much the same pattern?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Doing the same thing, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any sense of frustration that, you know, well, I'm leaving and where's my monument?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.64845664059567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, but but Ray was not on the road as we were, right? Because we were we were essentially the shills. You know, we were the ones who passed out the leaflets in a way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your second year was pretty much the same pattern?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Doing the same thing, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any sense of frustration that, you know, well, I'm leaving and where's my monument?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, the Peace Corps was pretty clear in telling us you weren't leaving monuments. You were here to be able to plow the ground for your successors because the plan was that our successors were going to be those who were more skilled and more skilled in animal husbandry, more skilled in co-ops and so on to be able to do all of those things to deepen the work. That's where the monuments might have gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any sense in trying to train the Bolivians to be doing what you were doing, not the village level work, but the kind of, you know, planting of seeds or whatever you want?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 26.276062933995185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Doing the same thing, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any sense of frustration that, you know, well, I'm leaving and where's my monument?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, the Peace Corps was pretty clear in telling us you weren't leaving monuments. You were here to be able to plow the ground for your successors because the plan was that our successors were going to be those who were more skilled and more skilled in animal husbandry, more skilled in co-ops and so on to be able to do all of those things to deepen the work. That's where the monuments might have gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any sense in trying to train the Bolivians to be doing what you were doing, not the village level work, but the kind of, you know, planting of seeds or whatever you want?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And and that was that was some of the that was some of the work the village level workers to working with. They were always looking for rising stars in the community, young men or young women who were going to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't specifically have someone, a Bolivian, who might accompany the four of you just to see what you were doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.875724636481001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, there there was a plan to replace us. Whether that replacement was going to be in this community or not was an open question. That we didn't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were their political problems during the two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only political problem was this. And it was it was really very, very interesting. Che Guevara. Who was the leader of the revolution in Cuba with Fidel, Che Guevara was discovered in the lowlands of Bolivia, and that, of course, set up the alarms because the thought was that Che was going down because he got bored with the administration of the revolution in Cuba. It was all because that was ‘59, wasn't it? I think ’59, and that Che wanted some excitement in his life and wanted to be working. And he had he had been traced into Argentina and into Bolivia. And ultimately he was killed by Bolivian rangers in Bolivia. And, you know, there are so many different interpretations of that of that story, because Che was a medical doctor himself, who was actually trained as a medical doctor. And he had a very bad case of asthma, apparently. And some say that it was almost a kind of a farewell or suicide mission for him, that he would not have gone to these lowlands, which would so compromise his asthmatic condition. In any event, the Bolivian rangers were almost heroes at that point. But the, and the government really paraded, I think they removed his thumbs, if I'm not mistaken, and they were, you know, in the newspaper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what impact did it have on, you know, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. There was there was not much other than there was there was some heightened military activity because no one really knew where he was in the country. But not much goes on on the Altiplano."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And usually at the end of the two years, there's a termination conference where the group gets together and discusses their experience. You know, not every place does it occur."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.661388440100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. There was there was not much other than there was there was some heightened military activity because no one really knew where he was in the country. But not much goes on on the Altiplano."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And usually at the end of the two years, there's a termination conference where the group gets together and discusses their experience. You know, not every place does it occur."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll tell you what, Bob, I. I was excused about three weeks early to begin a summer program at that Wharton School. And I, I missed it. Mary stayed on. And she would have been at the termination conference, I believe there was one, but I was excused early to be able to go up and try to start this program at Wharton. And as it turned out, I switched horses because of the law school thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's follow your story. Do you remember your feeling as you were leaving the country? I mean, you had joined the Peace Corps. You had been trained. You spent the two years sense of achievements and failures. And so was it worth doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The sense on leaving was this. That we had learned, I think all of us, we had learned much more than we had taught. We had gotten much more than we had given and that it was. It was a major, major life experience, and I think when I came back to the States, I felt I can do almost anything. That we wanted to, you know, so despite the fact and moreover, the other thing is that I didn't mention is Clemente's son, Tocio, left Bolivia with my brother halfway through and he was living with my family. So when I got back home to Bolivia or, excuse me, back home to Chicago, yeah, that was the Bolivian face living with my parents. So your brother had visited you during service?\n\nYes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like? Was he a world traveler?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.179320489000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll tell you what, Bob, I. I was excused about three weeks early to begin a summer program at that Wharton School. And I, I missed it. Mary stayed on. And she would have been at the termination conference, I believe there was one, but I was excused early to be able to go up and try to start this program at Wharton. And as it turned out, I switched horses because of the law school thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's follow your story. Do you remember your feeling as you were leaving the country? I mean, you had joined the Peace Corps. You had been trained. You spent the two years sense of achievements and failures. And so was it worth doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The sense on leaving was this. That we had learned, I think all of us, we had learned much more than we had taught. We had gotten much more than we had given and that it was. It was a major, major life experience, and I think when I came back to the States, I felt I can do almost anything. That we wanted to, you know, so despite the fact and moreover, the other thing is that I didn't mention is Clemente's son, Tocio, left Bolivia with my brother halfway through and he was living with my family. So when I got back home to Bolivia or, excuse me, back home to Chicago, yeah, that was the Bolivian face living with my parents. So your brother had visited you during service?\n\nYes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like? Was he a world traveler?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Tom was definitely not a world traveler. He was built for comfort, not for speed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he is your older brother?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.421467210000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The sense on leaving was this. That we had learned, I think all of us, we had learned much more than we had taught. We had gotten much more than we had given and that it was. It was a major, major life experience, and I think when I came back to the States, I felt I can do almost anything. That we wanted to, you know, so despite the fact and moreover, the other thing is that I didn't mention is Clemente's son, Tocio, left Bolivia with my brother halfway through and he was living with my family. So when I got back home to Bolivia or, excuse me, back home to Chicago, yeah, that was the Bolivian face living with my parents. So your brother had visited you during service?\n\nYes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like? Was he a world traveler?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Tom was definitely not a world traveler. He was built for comfort, not for speed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he is your older brother?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he's a younger brother, six years younger than I. He was in undergraduate's. No, no. Let's see. Where was he? He may have been an undergraduate school at Holy Cross at that time out in Worcester, Massachusetts, but he came down because a complicated story. We had worked things out so that Clemente wanted Tocio to get an education in the United States. My parents were willing to do it and arrangements. We made all the arrangements for Tocio to go back up. And when Tom came down, he was going to be the one who was going to accompany Tocio back to the States. And he did. Yeah, he traveled through immigration with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Howl old was Tocio then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.4682969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Tom was definitely not a world traveler. He was built for comfort, not for speed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he is your older brother?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he's a younger brother, six years younger than I. He was in undergraduate's. No, no. Let's see. Where was he? He may have been an undergraduate school at Holy Cross at that time out in Worcester, Massachusetts, but he came down because a complicated story. We had worked things out so that Clemente wanted Tocio to get an education in the United States. My parents were willing to do it and arrangements. We made all the arrangements for Tocio to go back up. And when Tom came down, he was going to be the one who was going to accompany Tocio back to the States. And he did. Yeah, he traveled through immigration with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Howl old was Tocio then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Toshio was probably about, I'm going to say about ten. I think he was maybe around nine, although believe it or not, I don't know that there is even a birth certificate for Tocio. And the custom in Bolivia is that you do not count a child as a member of the family until the child achieves his fifth birthday because infant mortality is so great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Tocio came up not to go to college, but school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.631441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he's a younger brother, six years younger than I. He was in undergraduate's. No, no. Let's see. Where was he? He may have been an undergraduate school at Holy Cross at that time out in Worcester, Massachusetts, but he came down because a complicated story. We had worked things out so that Clemente wanted Tocio to get an education in the United States. My parents were willing to do it and arrangements. We made all the arrangements for Tocio to go back up. And when Tom came down, he was going to be the one who was going to accompany Tocio back to the States. And he did. Yeah, he traveled through immigration with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Howl old was Tocio then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Toshio was probably about, I'm going to say about ten. I think he was maybe around nine, although believe it or not, I don't know that there is even a birth certificate for Tocio. And the custom in Bolivia is that you do not count a child as a member of the family until the child achieves his fifth birthday because infant mortality is so great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Tocio came up not to go to college, but school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not to go to college. He went to grammar school and, you know, he was speaking no English at all. When he arrived, he and my parents worked out of a dictionary. He was enrolled in the local public school. It was a, you know, a very positive experience for him. I think he he managed to do very well. He did well in his studies. He he mastered the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still in touch with him?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.59049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Toshio was probably about, I'm going to say about ten. I think he was maybe around nine, although believe it or not, I don't know that there is even a birth certificate for Tocio. And the custom in Bolivia is that you do not count a child as a member of the family until the child achieves his fifth birthday because infant mortality is so great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Tocio came up not to go to college, but school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not to go to college. He went to grammar school and, you know, he was speaking no English at all. When he arrived, he and my parents worked out of a dictionary. He was enrolled in the local public school. It was a, you know, a very positive experience for him. I think he he managed to do very well. He did well in his studies. He he mastered the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still in touch with him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. He lives in Oregon. In fact, when my mother died about five years ago, she was in a nursing home. But before that time, she she was living in a home thgat that they owned and she had a room with them. So they were they were, in essence, taking care of her. That is Tocio and his wife, who is a Filipino woman who was a nurse and their adopted daughter from the Philippines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they became family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 10.6561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not to go to college. He went to grammar school and, you know, he was speaking no English at all. When he arrived, he and my parents worked out of a dictionary. He was enrolled in the local public school. It was a, you know, a very positive experience for him. I think he he managed to do very well. He did well in his studies. He he mastered the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still in touch with him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. He lives in Oregon. In fact, when my mother died about five years ago, she was in a nursing home. But before that time, she she was living in a home thgat that they owned and she had a room with them. So they were they were, in essence, taking care of her. That is Tocio and his wife, who is a Filipino woman who was a nurse and their adopted daughter from the Philippines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they became family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. They became family. Yes, indeed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, again, your sense of what two years meant in terms of, let's say in terms of Bolivarian development and then in terms of, you know, what did you bring back to the U.S.?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. They became family. Yes, indeed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, again, your sense of what two years meant in terms of, let's say in terms of Bolivarian development and then in terms of, you know, what did you bring back to the U.S.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, Bolivian development. Bolivia is the poorest country in South America. It has. The only time it wasn't the poorest country was when the deep tin mining was going on and the Hochschild and Patino families were ruling the country essentially and almost owning it because there was extraordinary wealth in Bolivia. But when tin became shallow mined and strip mined in Southeast Asia later, it no longer was economic to remove tin from deep shaft mines. And Bolivia is a poor country. Bolivia has huge challenges geographically, it is as large as Texas and California put together. It goes from mountains that are almost as tall as Everest to Amazon jungle. And it does that within a relatively small space, even though it's Texas and California and it only has the population of maybe four million people, something like that. So it is terribly, terribly challenging just geographically. I mean, it's Hannibal crossing the Alps. It's a very, very daunting country to get around it. Very difficult. I have great, great affection. I have not been back to South America at all. I've not been back to Bolivia. Our friend Ray has been back to Peru and also back to Bolivia, went back to his community, but again, you see where he had roots in that community because he lived there and did projects with him. We were essentially nomads when we were there. We really didn't sink roots in our community. We were we were the traveling side show, you know, and that's why we didn't have that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a role."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a role. And the Peace Corps told us it was going to be a role. And we accepted that role as we were expected to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So on that score. You know, you achieved pretty much what you set out to do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00239:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a role. And the Peace Corps told us it was going to be a role. And we accepted that role as we were expected to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So on that score. You know, you achieved pretty much what you set out to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we achieved, although there's certainly, you know, every time you use the word achievement, someone says, well, how do you measure it? What are you measurable here? Well, and and I can't tell you what the measurable goals are. I don't even know today how many volunteers there are in in Bolivia. Bolivia is going through a lot of challenges economically. You know, they’ve had a lot of upheaval because of ethnic problems with challenges. I know that that Clemente, our former boss, is still very active politically. He lives down in the Yungas now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in some ways, I mean, with many Peace Corps project people, the measure is in terms of someone like Tocio more in the number of schools we built or."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, it could be. It could be. On the other hand, you know, I always wonder what would have happened to Tocio had had he not left Bolivia. I think clearly he would have run away from home. But he may have he may have been he may have made a very sound contribution to his own country. I'm just not sure it's one of those things we'll never know. Unfortunately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else about your Peace Corps service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00065:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 40.61376613197514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was, it ended up being a choice. But I must say, I was really nervous about, you know, sort of saying to the Peace Corps, no, you know, I don't want to do these other things for whatever reasons, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they were very eager to, you know, this was the high point in Peace Corps' size. I mean, this was, I mean, I think that in 1966, which was a year before that, there were like 16,000 volunteers overseas. And so and they were expanding rapidly and wanted, you know, wanted people to join and were helping people to make, you know. And a lot of the positions were for what they called BA generalists, people who had social science degrees and no particular technical skills other than their major in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you accepted the position."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you got on a plane. And where did you do your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00065:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 38.45974014663904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they were very eager to, you know, this was the high point in Peace Corps' size. I mean, this was, I mean, I think that in 1966, which was a year before that, there were like 16,000 volunteers overseas. And so and they were expanding rapidly and wanted, you know, wanted people to join and were helping people to make, you know. And a lot of the positions were for what they called BA generalists, people who had social science degrees and no particular technical skills other than their major in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you accepted the position."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you got on a plane. And where did you do your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we started off with like a five-day staging in San Francisco before we went into training. And we were with a group from Tonga and a group from Samoa. So it was this massive event in San Francisco. I forget exactly where the event was. I know that we, that I stayed in the YMCA, which was where they put us up, which was in the Tenderloin District of San Francisco. So there were lots and lots of people around. And you were never even sure whether the people you were talking to were going to Fiji or not, because it was all this pre-departure staging where they were completing medical stuff and, you know, and physicals, and they were doing a certain amount of screening as well. In those days, Peace Corps had a fairly strict selection process, and it involved psychological evaluation by staff that were onsite, both at the staging and in in-country.\n\nThey did full field investigations on everyone. I remember that my barber told me that when I went home from school. My barber says, hey, the FBI was around asking about you. And I said, really, my barber? Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's got great hair."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00065:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 42.73304460737671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you got on a plane. And where did you do your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we started off with like a five-day staging in San Francisco before we went into training. And we were with a group from Tonga and a group from Samoa. So it was this massive event in San Francisco. I forget exactly where the event was. I know that we, that I stayed in the YMCA, which was where they put us up, which was in the Tenderloin District of San Francisco. So there were lots and lots of people around. And you were never even sure whether the people you were talking to were going to Fiji or not, because it was all this pre-departure staging where they were completing medical stuff and, you know, and physicals, and they were doing a certain amount of screening as well. In those days, Peace Corps had a fairly strict selection process, and it involved psychological evaluation by staff that were onsite, both at the staging and in in-country.\n\nThey did full field investigations on everyone. I remember that my barber told me that when I went home from school. My barber says, hey, the FBI was around asking about you. And I said, really, my barber? Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's got great hair."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Huh?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's got great hair."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00065:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we were there for that, at that, for that occasion. In part because we had just won the Friends of Fiji raffle and had two tickets to Fiji that had been donated by Fiji Airways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That worked out well for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Well, we've compressed 50 years into a little over an hour here. Any last thoughts or did we miss anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, uh. Just I mean the Peace Corps has had a lasting impact on my life in a lot of other ways as well. I mean, I continue to encourage people that I meet who are trying to figure out what next to do in their lives to consider Peace Corps, whether they are young people or older people. And, you know, I still count a lot of folks from Fiji as some of my best friends over the years. And so, yeah, I mean, I've had a number of other different kinds of jobs since Peace Corps, but probably none that would compare with two years as a Peace Corps volunteer. I still count those as the two best years of my life, other than the 44 years that I've spent with my now wife, Willa. But she too had a good experience I think in Fiji. And so yeah, so it's been, it was a good run and I'm glad for all of the opportunities that Peace Corps provided."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Well, thanks very much, David, for the interview."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.807777101847577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that process take?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A long time. I think it was like nine or ten months. It took a while. But you know, you're writing a lot, doing a lot, getting your medical exams, waiting to hear back. I mean, my life was comfortable, so I wasn't stressing about it. I had a good job and San Luis Obispo is a nice place to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So off I went and forever life changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did all your training in country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.008641224275085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A long time. I think it was like nine or ten months. It took a while. But you know, you're writing a lot, doing a lot, getting your medical exams, waiting to hear back. I mean, my life was comfortable, so I wasn't stressing about it. I had a good job and San Luis Obispo is a nice place to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So off I went and forever life changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did all your training in country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any kind of orientation in the States before you went?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.009601360305648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So off I went and forever life changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did all your training in country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any kind of orientation in the States before you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We met in LA for a couple of days and did a little bit of orientation. I kind of don't remember much about it, but when we got to country then we all met up. And I don't remember the names of all the towns anymore. I think we spent about a week doing a little bit of orientation and then we split up into groups and went to a nearby village where groups of five or six of us were placed in villages, all I think within the same tikina, and did training roles. It was training relevant to what where our future assignment would be. So I was in environmental, so I was doing environmental kind of training and language every day and living with the family and learning the language and culture that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did the training in villages from very early on."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.677334844784054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any kind of orientation in the States before you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We met in LA for a couple of days and did a little bit of orientation. I kind of don't remember much about it, but when we got to country then we all met up. And I don't remember the names of all the towns anymore. I think we spent about a week doing a little bit of orientation and then we split up into groups and went to a nearby village where groups of five or six of us were placed in villages, all I think within the same tikina, and did training roles. It was training relevant to what where our future assignment would be. So I was in environmental, so I was doing environmental kind of training and language every day and living with the family and learning the language and culture that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did the training in villages from very early on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, which I think is a wise thing to do because they teamed you up with a family and then that family was supposed to treat you like the family, which is easy to do in Fiji because they treat everybody like family and everybody's related. But yeah, I lived there with a family and I was Ratu Siti to start with. Later when I moved to the Nadroga area, I became Lavo Siti, or Siti Vini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, different dialect in Nadroga. When you had the orientation in LA, were there any Fijians that came to that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.419260938648949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We met in LA for a couple of days and did a little bit of orientation. I kind of don't remember much about it, but when we got to country then we all met up. And I don't remember the names of all the towns anymore. I think we spent about a week doing a little bit of orientation and then we split up into groups and went to a nearby village where groups of five or six of us were placed in villages, all I think within the same tikina, and did training roles. It was training relevant to what where our future assignment would be. So I was in environmental, so I was doing environmental kind of training and language every day and living with the family and learning the language and culture that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did the training in villages from very early on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, which I think is a wise thing to do because they teamed you up with a family and then that family was supposed to treat you like the family, which is easy to do in Fiji because they treat everybody like family and everybody's related. But yeah, I lived there with a family and I was Ratu Siti to start with. Later when I moved to the Nadroga area, I became Lavo Siti, or Siti Vini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, different dialect in Nadroga. When you had the orientation in LA, were there any Fijians that came to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I can't remember though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you recall your early impressions or your first impression? Like when the plane lands in Fiji, it's usually early in the morning. Do you recall how you felt when you're flying in there and what your first impression was like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.910289931832166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, which I think is a wise thing to do because they teamed you up with a family and then that family was supposed to treat you like the family, which is easy to do in Fiji because they treat everybody like family and everybody's related. But yeah, I lived there with a family and I was Ratu Siti to start with. Later when I moved to the Nadroga area, I became Lavo Siti, or Siti Vini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, different dialect in Nadroga. When you had the orientation in LA, were there any Fijians that came to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I can't remember though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you recall your early impressions or your first impression? Like when the plane lands in Fiji, it's usually early in the morning. Do you recall how you felt when you're flying in there and what your first impression was like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember writing, I journal daily. I remember writing in it on the plane, kind of just like in anticipation and then showing up. And I had done, because of surfing, I had traveled to tropical areas already. So when I landed there, it was that same kind of warm, humid heat and that smell that you'll get. It was kind of burning trash that you get in a lot of countries. And I was like, oh, this feels familiar and exciting. And I just got excited. And then I don't remember what we all did, but we all got on busses and drove from Nadi over to Suva. And I just remember looking at everything and taking it all in and being surrounded by a bunch of people that I didn't know but I felt connected to, all of the other Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was your group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.45587770203574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I can't remember though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you recall your early impressions or your first impression? Like when the plane lands in Fiji, it's usually early in the morning. Do you recall how you felt when you're flying in there and what your first impression was like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember writing, I journal daily. I remember writing in it on the plane, kind of just like in anticipation and then showing up. And I had done, because of surfing, I had traveled to tropical areas already. So when I landed there, it was that same kind of warm, humid heat and that smell that you'll get. It was kind of burning trash that you get in a lot of countries. And I was like, oh, this feels familiar and exciting. And I just got excited. And then I don't remember what we all did, but we all got on busses and drove from Nadi over to Suva. And I just remember looking at everything and taking it all in and being surrounded by a bunch of people that I didn't know but I felt connected to, all of the other Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "33 or 34."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty good sized group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.062086335595266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember writing, I journal daily. I remember writing in it on the plane, kind of just like in anticipation and then showing up. And I had done, because of surfing, I had traveled to tropical areas already. So when I landed there, it was that same kind of warm, humid heat and that smell that you'll get. It was kind of burning trash that you get in a lot of countries. And I was like, oh, this feels familiar and exciting. And I just got excited. And then I don't remember what we all did, but we all got on busses and drove from Nadi over to Suva. And I just remember looking at everything and taking it all in and being surrounded by a bunch of people that I didn't know but I felt connected to, all of the other Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "33 or 34."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty good sized group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And I think most people made it all the way through. There's only a handful of people that had to leave for medical reasons. A couple of dropped out, but not many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the entire group environmental or were some of them doing other things?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.6245403728836285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "33 or 34."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty good sized group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And I think most people made it all the way through. There's only a handful of people that had to leave for medical reasons. A couple of dropped out, but not many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the entire group environmental or were some of them doing other things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now there's environmental. And there was, I think there was health. Some of them were doing some health. And what did else they do? People worked in some of the ministries doing things too. There's people doing economic development. Sorry, I can't remember. And then it was a mix, too. I mean, most people went to either villages or ministries and then a handful went to the Indian villages, or not villages, but the Indian kind of communities and helped out there. And that would, that's usually more urban. So. Yeah. It was varied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So by having the training in a Fijian village, that's kind of immersion from the get go."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.249489303204031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And I think most people made it all the way through. There's only a handful of people that had to leave for medical reasons. A couple of dropped out, but not many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the entire group environmental or were some of them doing other things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now there's environmental. And there was, I think there was health. Some of them were doing some health. And what did else they do? People worked in some of the ministries doing things too. There's people doing economic development. Sorry, I can't remember. And then it was a mix, too. I mean, most people went to either villages or ministries and then a handful went to the Indian villages, or not villages, but the Indian kind of communities and helped out there. And that would, that's usually more urban. So. Yeah. It was varied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So by having the training in a Fijian village, that's kind of immersion from the get go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, tell me about the village. Describe it to me and the house you lived in. And the family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.246283090375346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, tell me about the village. Describe it to me and the house you lived in. And the family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The family? Man, I feel bad, like I've forgotten people's names. But the house was, it was a two-story house. And below was where they did all their cooking, cleaning. And then the house was upstairs. The village was somewhere, I think, north of Suva. It was kind of swampy nearby. So we got. There was mosquitoes, which I wasn't used to, the amount of mosquitoes there. But after two years, you're kind of used to mosquitoes. I don't think you ever like them, but you kind of get used to them. Um, and when people complain about mosquitoes here in San Diego, I just go, meh, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah, there was some bush around, but not. It was different than where I ended up because it was more swampy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it wasn't a remote village. It was pretty close into Suva."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.242324802932527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah, there was some bush around, but not. It was different than where I ended up because it was more swampy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it wasn't a remote village. It was pretty close into Suva."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't that close to Suva. I'd have to look up, look at a map, I can picture where it is on a map, but it's north of Suva, kind of swampy, not too far from the ocean, but not. I think you'd want to take like a mini bus to get to it. And it wasn't really like the ocean reef, it was more like a bay, a muddy bay and mangroves. And, you know, there was a villa or a town center that we'd go shopping at once a week. And I just remember my fondest memories are walking around in the bush with a cane knife and starting to learn about what you could eat and what to harvest. Because later on, when I was in my village on Sundays when I couldn't take church anymore, I would just go bush. I'd grab my spear and my cane knife and I'd just go out and I'd collect ferns and coconuts and spear some fish, catch an eel, and come home, and I'd have all the food I needed.\n\nSo those were the things I enjoyed. And so those are my fondest memories. Also just sitting around and laughing because Fijians laugh so much. So we'd always be cooking food and they'd be teaching me how to scrape a coconut. How to crack a coconut. Words, all the words that go with it. How to cook. And I remember they introduced me to rotis. I was like, I want to learn how to make rotis. So they're teaching me how to make the little rotis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the fire, and I'm burning my thumbs trying to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these are Fijian women teaching you how to do it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.824805336591696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't that close to Suva. I'd have to look up, look at a map, I can picture where it is on a map, but it's north of Suva, kind of swampy, not too far from the ocean, but not. I think you'd want to take like a mini bus to get to it. And it wasn't really like the ocean reef, it was more like a bay, a muddy bay and mangroves. And, you know, there was a villa or a town center that we'd go shopping at once a week. And I just remember my fondest memories are walking around in the bush with a cane knife and starting to learn about what you could eat and what to harvest. Because later on, when I was in my village on Sundays when I couldn't take church anymore, I would just go bush. I'd grab my spear and my cane knife and I'd just go out and I'd collect ferns and coconuts and spear some fish, catch an eel, and come home, and I'd have all the food I needed.\n\nSo those were the things I enjoyed. And so those are my fondest memories. Also just sitting around and laughing because Fijians laugh so much. So we'd always be cooking food and they'd be teaching me how to scrape a coconut. How to crack a coconut. Words, all the words that go with it. How to cook. And I remember they introduced me to rotis. I was like, I want to learn how to make rotis. So they're teaching me how to make the little rotis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the fire, and I'm burning my thumbs trying to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these are Fijian women teaching you how to do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's an Indian flatbread. But everybody eats it in Fiji now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.472005929546329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the fire, and I'm burning my thumbs trying to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these are Fijian women teaching you how to do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's an Indian flatbread. But everybody eats it in Fiji now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you know, it's like a burrito. So I was like, this is close to a burrito, but it's just got curry in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how long did you stay with the family during training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.755562875983123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you know, it's like a burrito. So I was like, this is close to a burrito, but it's just got curry in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how long did you stay with the family during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was about three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a lot of language? Was it pretty intensive language training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.506180973314581, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was about three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a lot of language? Was it pretty intensive language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. We had to, uh, really every group had their own language trainer and they helped us with culture too. So there was the village and the family who lived us. And then there was an individual Fijian who worked with, worked for Peace Corps, who taught us. We did all sorts of lessons on language and culture and everything else. He passed away after I left. He was young too. And you know, that happened a lot. People would pass away. They just get something that's not a big deal to us. And then they'd do something like change villages and something that wasn't the correct procedure. And then they'd end up passing away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. People die young."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.340201081460645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a lot of language? Was it pretty intensive language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. We had to, uh, really every group had their own language trainer and they helped us with culture too. So there was the village and the family who lived us. And then there was an individual Fijian who worked with, worked for Peace Corps, who taught us. We did all sorts of lessons on language and culture and everything else. He passed away after I left. He was young too. And you know, that happened a lot. People would pass away. They just get something that's not a big deal to us. And then they'd do something like change villages and something that wasn't the correct procedure. And then they'd end up passing away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. People die young."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but he was. Then they'd take us out for the night life too. And we went to some really rough bars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this in the area where you were staying?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.155778979400715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. We had to, uh, really every group had their own language trainer and they helped us with culture too. So there was the village and the family who lived us. And then there was an individual Fijian who worked with, worked for Peace Corps, who taught us. We did all sorts of lessons on language and culture and everything else. He passed away after I left. He was young too. And you know, that happened a lot. People would pass away. They just get something that's not a big deal to us. And then they'd do something like change villages and something that wasn't the correct procedure. And then they'd end up passing away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. People die young."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but he was. Then they'd take us out for the night life too. And we went to some really rough bars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this in the area where you were staying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I can't even remember the name of it, but I do remember they like kind of made a ring around us to protect us because it was such a rough bar. And I remember one night somebody even threw a big, like their big beer bottles across the room and it smashed on the wall. And we're just going, where are we? This is a bit scary. Because like I guess this is how you learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So any, well other than the bars, any memorable experiences during training with your cohorts or your family that you stayed with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.35964873139378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure they understand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then they were told to be understanding and teach us that stuff. And that was what it was all about. You learn your place, you know, you learn. They were always telling you, you know, how to walk, how to talk, never to walk above somebody's head, never to touch their head. All these different little cultural things that the family was teaching you that you'd never get if you just went there. Because they wouldn't tell you and they wouldn't be told to tell you, so you wouldn't know. It's really important, when I look back. Without that, had they just sent me to the village, I'd be lost as anybody, you know. I'd eventually find my way. But it's not the same as walking into a village and knowing to bring kava. Knowing where to sit. Knowing how the ceremonies work. Knowing at least a foundation of the language. You just couldn't do it without, I think, those three months of training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you felt like the training was pretty good?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, the, like I said, towards what we did, you know, what our job would be in the village. Every village is so different that they're just kind of giving you ideas of what you could do. The village is going to tell you what to do, but the training they gave you towards language and how to culturally interact was invaluable. So and there's a lot of other volunteers in Fiji from different countries that don't get anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, VSO, VSA."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.399609701548643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then they were told to be understanding and teach us that stuff. And that was what it was all about. You learn your place, you know, you learn. They were always telling you, you know, how to walk, how to talk, never to walk above somebody's head, never to touch their head. All these different little cultural things that the family was teaching you that you'd never get if you just went there. Because they wouldn't tell you and they wouldn't be told to tell you, so you wouldn't know. It's really important, when I look back. Without that, had they just sent me to the village, I'd be lost as anybody, you know. I'd eventually find my way. But it's not the same as walking into a village and knowing to bring kava. Knowing where to sit. Knowing how the ceremonies work. Knowing at least a foundation of the language. You just couldn't do it without, I think, those three months of training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you felt like the training was pretty good?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, the, like I said, towards what we did, you know, what our job would be in the village. Every village is so different that they're just kind of giving you ideas of what you could do. The village is going to tell you what to do, but the training they gave you towards language and how to culturally interact was invaluable. So and there's a lot of other volunteers in Fiji from different countries that don't get anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, VSO, VSA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there's like a, yeah. But they're doing nothing like Peace Corps. They're not, they're not as ingrained into the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, right. And there's some of the NGOs that bring people in. So it sounds like you were comfortable and you adjusted pretty quickly. You were comfortable with the environment and the lifestyle."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.444010779498493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, the, like I said, towards what we did, you know, what our job would be in the village. Every village is so different that they're just kind of giving you ideas of what you could do. The village is going to tell you what to do, but the training they gave you towards language and how to culturally interact was invaluable. So and there's a lot of other volunteers in Fiji from different countries that don't get anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, VSO, VSA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there's like a, yeah. But they're doing nothing like Peace Corps. They're not, they're not as ingrained into the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, right. And there's some of the NGOs that bring people in. So it sounds like you were comfortable and you adjusted pretty quickly. You were comfortable with the environment and the lifestyle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, there's always going to be the difference. I think Fiji is, it's almost like by nature communistic or it used to be anyway. And the fact that everybody kind of owned everything and personal space wasn't really understood, it was. And I always had a hard time with that because I'm OK being by myself and reading a book by myself or closing the door for a little while. But, you know, you get more and more comfortable with that. You just get comfortable with if I'm reading the book and you want to sit in my house and pick your toenails, so be it. You know, I'll just keep reading my book. We don't need to talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then you went out to your, you swore in after training, and you went out to your worksite. What was the name of the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.604456421664992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there's like a, yeah. But they're doing nothing like Peace Corps. They're not, they're not as ingrained into the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, right. And there's some of the NGOs that bring people in. So it sounds like you were comfortable and you adjusted pretty quickly. You were comfortable with the environment and the lifestyle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, there's always going to be the difference. I think Fiji is, it's almost like by nature communistic or it used to be anyway. And the fact that everybody kind of owned everything and personal space wasn't really understood, it was. And I always had a hard time with that because I'm OK being by myself and reading a book by myself or closing the door for a little while. But, you know, you get more and more comfortable with that. You just get comfortable with if I'm reading the book and you want to sit in my house and pick your toenails, so be it. You know, I'll just keep reading my book. We don't need to talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then you went out to your, you swore in after training, and you went out to your worksite. What was the name of the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Biausevu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you spell it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.893840468516657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, there's always going to be the difference. I think Fiji is, it's almost like by nature communistic or it used to be anyway. And the fact that everybody kind of owned everything and personal space wasn't really understood, it was. And I always had a hard time with that because I'm OK being by myself and reading a book by myself or closing the door for a little while. But, you know, you get more and more comfortable with that. You just get comfortable with if I'm reading the book and you want to sit in my house and pick your toenails, so be it. You know, I'll just keep reading my book. We don't need to talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then you went out to your, you swore in after training, and you went out to your worksite. What was the name of the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Biausevu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you spell it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "B-I-A-U-S-E-V-U."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's somewhere you said around the Coral Coast?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.882044965018508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Biausevu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you spell it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "B-I-A-U-S-E-V-U."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's somewhere you said around the Coral Coast?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's. It's in Nadroga. Um, I mean, it's kind of dead in the middle of Coral Coast. It's, uh, if you know where the Warwick Hotel is, it's kind of inland from there, about two kilometers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK.\n\nIt's just up in the hills. There's a big waterfall called Savu Na Mate Laya. And tourists always go up there and go visit the waterfall. And it's actually one of the main projects that I worked on was because of that waterfall.\n\nOh, really? What is that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.854376500022848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's. It's in Nadroga. Um, I mean, it's kind of dead in the middle of Coral Coast. It's, uh, if you know where the Warwick Hotel is, it's kind of inland from there, about two kilometers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK.\n\nIt's just up in the hills. There's a big waterfall called Savu Na Mate Laya. And tourists always go up there and go visit the waterfall. And it's actually one of the main projects that I worked on was because of that waterfall.\n\nOh, really? What is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's true. So there the village had somehow had a grant set up with the Ministry of Forestry to build a native tree nursery and update the trail leading up to it. And so the village could then reforest the forest with native trees because a lot of Fiji's hardwoods have been cut down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so there's still some native trees and other trees that we'd go around and collect seeds from. And we built a nursery and the Ministry of Forestry came and we built the nursery, taught a lot of the youth how the whole thing worked. How to make the soil, how to prepare the seeds, how to plant them. And then when tours would come to go to the waterfall, they could pay their ten bucks to see the waterfall, but then they could also buy a tree, plant it somewhere on the trail up there. Because there's a whole lot of non-natives and with the idea of reforesting it. And it was also an idea that they'd offset their carbon footprint. And then there's also money in that grant to update the trail, because horses went up there and people went up there on foot. And uh. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Trail must have been pretty bad."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.87492590903383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a New Zealander. He had money through, I think, a university. Sorry, if I had more time, I would have pulled out some of these documents that I still have somewhere. Anyways, so yeah, we work with. There's two, there was two main families and they were fighting over how this is going to work. So I said, why don't we just have both families do their own vuzi farm and then everybody's happy. And so we built two vuzi farms and we fenced off these giant areas to keep the pigs out. And it was, I made it into a youth project, so that everybody could get on board with the youth learning how to do something new, building these things, learning how to do a new style of farming, and then they could sell it and make the profits for their own youth group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they had lost the knowledge of how to do these dalo patches?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a few of the elders that we talked to that remembered their dads, like the old guys, some of the random old guys in their seventies, remembered their dads did it. But the thing was it, I guess when you read about it, they did it all the time pre 1800s. And then there was, I forgot what happened. There was a bit of a plague in Fiji and a lot of people died off. I forgot what came through, but it killed off a decent amount of the population, so they stopped doing it because it's so labor intensive to make everybody come out and build these kind of. They line them with giant rocks, kind of like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a pit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and then there would be mud in the middle. And so they stopped doing it and modern farming technology came and fertilizers and pesticides. So it became, you know, why do that if you don't have to? Fijians are really good at not working hard. Why work hard if you don't have to?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're good at working hard when they want to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.0184270481899125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and then there would be mud in the middle. And so they stopped doing it and modern farming technology came and fertilizers and pesticides. So it became, you know, why do that if you don't have to? Fijians are really good at not working hard. Why work hard if you don't have to?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're good at working hard when they want to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think they just know that right balance. But then I like I said earlier, there was a cyclone came through and it tore up all the fencing and knocked down trees and wiped out all the forests. And the project kind of fell apart after the first year because we couldn't redo all the fencing. There's no money to do it. And then the pigs got in there and ate the dalo. But the first year they harvested it all, they went around and sold their dalo, and it was a really cool project. And it was cool to teach them how to do it I think. And I learned so much too, just going around in the bush and clearing things with 15 guys and a bunch of cane knives and putting in fencing for I feel like miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was something that I have never done since."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a jungle?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.687141164655459, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think they just know that right balance. But then I like I said earlier, there was a cyclone came through and it tore up all the fencing and knocked down trees and wiped out all the forests. And the project kind of fell apart after the first year because we couldn't redo all the fencing. There's no money to do it. And then the pigs got in there and ate the dalo. But the first year they harvested it all, they went around and sold their dalo, and it was a really cool project. And it was cool to teach them how to do it I think. And I learned so much too, just going around in the bush and clearing things with 15 guys and a bunch of cane knives and putting in fencing for I feel like miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was something that I have never done since."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a jungle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in a jungle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's not an easy thing to do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.7094058293788414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Off the side of the road. And you had to have nice flowers and medicinal flowers and all the drains around your house had to be dug out and cleared so that the water would drain away and you wouldn't have mosquitoes. And they would go through and they'd rate everybody's house. And then at the monthly village meeting, they would read out the scores to the houses and basically shame you into."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Embarrass everybody."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, into getting your house nicer. And it worked, and it worked even after, you know, she started it, I kept it up, and they just kept on doing it on their own. It just became something that they did. It was like part of what the village did and it just seemed so logical, you know, like there was no money. Everybody had a benefit to it. The village got better. The only problem was there's still no trash collection system there. So all that plastic trash goes into a pit and gets lit on fire every once in a while. It's just awful when they light all that plastic trash on fire. But that one was, that was a cool project, because I don't know but I feel like they're probably still doing it. As toward the other ones, not so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was this village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, so we did it in five villages. It was the whole tikina. So we'd go around every week to a different village. So it was basically like we just would go around every five weeks and go to a different one. And it was always kind of an event. We'd meet up with people, go around and check every house, and then as always, once you're all done, you sit around and have kava and tally it all up. And then somebody brings out a bunch of food and you feel like you've accomplished something and you're full and kava'ed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your job wasn't limited to just the village where you lived. It was that whole district there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.51778497454178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, so we did it in five villages. It was the whole tikina. So we'd go around every week to a different village. So it was basically like we just would go around every five weeks and go to a different one. And it was always kind of an event. We'd meet up with people, go around and check every house, and then as always, once you're all done, you sit around and have kava and tally it all up. And then somebody brings out a bunch of food and you feel like you've accomplished something and you're full and kava'ed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your job wasn't limited to just the village where you lived. It was that whole district there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the whole one. I, at first when I got there, I thought that I'd be more in the whole one, in the whole tikina. But all four of the villages were on the coast and you can just walk down the beach to them. But my village was about two kilometers inland, and I could walk down. You know, I could walk down the bush to there or I could walk down the road. But it's just, it kind of wears on you. So I kept that one to the five because it was just once a week to go to different villages. But the other projects I mostly just stuck all in my village. It was just a lot of walking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the village that you lived in, how big was that? How many families there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I can't remember. I think they said when the village is full, there was like 330 people live there, but it never felt like that. I felt like there's maybe 120 to 150 at any given time or less. And how many houses? Not that many. You can walk around the village pretty quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And what was your house like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.515783919187383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I can't remember. I think they said when the village is full, there was like 330 people live there, but it never felt like that. I felt like there's maybe 120 to 150 at any given time or less. And how many houses? Not that many. You can walk around the village pretty quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And what was your house like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My house was actually kind of big for a house because it was, they were building a kindergarten and they didn't have any place to put me, so they put me in the kindergarten. At first I started out in somebody else's house because it wasn't finished, and then it took them, I don't know, three months or so to finish up the house that I stayed in. So I had like a little kitchen area, actually, kind of a big kitchen area, and then a really big room because it was supposed to be a kindergarten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, that waterfall I talked about had a creek that ran down. It ran right by my, right behind my house. And just tin walls, tin, no concrete walls, tin roof, doors, windows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed there the whole time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.684204354652648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My house was actually kind of big for a house because it was, they were building a kindergarten and they didn't have any place to put me, so they put me in the kindergarten. At first I started out in somebody else's house because it wasn't finished, and then it took them, I don't know, three months or so to finish up the house that I stayed in. So I had like a little kitchen area, actually, kind of a big kitchen area, and then a really big room because it was supposed to be a kindergarten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, that waterfall I talked about had a creek that ran down. It ran right by my, right behind my house. And just tin walls, tin, no concrete walls, tin roof, doors, windows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed there the whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So no kindergarten?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.982449282947385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, that waterfall I talked about had a creek that ran down. It ran right by my, right behind my house. And just tin walls, tin, no concrete walls, tin roof, doors, windows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed there the whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So no kindergarten?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They stayed in another building?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.037271928208849, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And some of these projects you're talking about, obviously they don't happen overnight. So you might spend months working on some of these things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like, well, all the projects were happening simultaneously. There wasn't a beginning or an end to one. And I felt like some of them, like, would ramp up and there'd be a big push to everything. And then it would. I feel like this is maybe just Fijian culture. Something else would happen, like a funeral or a wedding, and everything would just stop abruptly. It didn't matter. Just all stopped. And for the next week or two is all about the wedding or the funeral. And then I'd have to slowly build the momentum back up and it will go, go, go, go, go until something else happened, a wedding, a funeral. Or Christmas. Christmas was a big thing. And Christmas, everything shuts down for a pleasurable amount of time. If we had a Christmas break as long as Fiji at Christmas break, it'd be nice.\n\nBut it was. You have to. You had to keep pushing and keep the motivation. And I think because you're alone and there's not a lot of other stimulus, it's really good to be able to keep that motivation going, because you've got to focus your energy somewhere. So the projects become, it'd become, you know, it's 24/7 on that project. And what you're doing there is also your life. It's everything. You know, you wake up and you're on. You're on the clock. You go to sleep. People knock on your door in the middle of the night and you can't say, go away, because you're there. You're supposed to be there in service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when somebody knocks on your door in the middle of the night, what are they looking for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They usually want something. Or the one time they wanted to sell me fish, because they catch fish in the middle of the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right, they go out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.391693738529442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They usually want something. Or the one time they wanted to sell me fish, because they catch fish in the middle of the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right, they go out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They go out fishing and they want to sell their fish. But if you don't buy your fish right when they catch it, all the fish is gone by the time you're ready to wake up. You learn that quick. Somebody knocks on the door at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning and scares you. Siti! What? What's wrong? Siti, you want some fish? You're like, what? No, I don't want fish. It's 3:00 in the morning. I'll come back at 8:00. And I come back at 8:00. Fish is all gone, Siti."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet you learned that fast."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You gotta get it when it's ready."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was the Peace Corps experience a lot different than you envisioned it when you signed up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.187276220406718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You gotta get it when it's ready."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was the Peace Corps experience a lot different than you envisioned it when you signed up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a bit, it was because everybody that I talked to previously went to South America somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where I think culture is more similar to a Western culture and Fiji is not very similar to Western culture at all. So I think that it gave me, well, I just didn't know what to expect. I had no idea really what Fijian culture would be about. I had never really even thought about Fijian culture. But what it did do is it gave me, I feel like as much as I learned about Fijian culture and I could go back to Fiji and sit down at any village and be comfortable to where a lot of people couldn't and know what's going on when a lot of people wouldn't. I also was able to look at my own culture in this really bird's eye view and go, oh, why did I ever think this? Why was this normal to me? Because what is so normal to them, it's weird to me. They think the same thing about me, you know. So it was a really good cultural sharing experience of being able to learn, in retrospect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you just stayed for the two years. Did you think about extending?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.430306911563019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a bit, it was because everybody that I talked to previously went to South America somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where I think culture is more similar to a Western culture and Fiji is not very similar to Western culture at all. So I think that it gave me, well, I just didn't know what to expect. I had no idea really what Fijian culture would be about. I had never really even thought about Fijian culture. But what it did do is it gave me, I feel like as much as I learned about Fijian culture and I could go back to Fiji and sit down at any village and be comfortable to where a lot of people couldn't and know what's going on when a lot of people wouldn't. I also was able to look at my own culture in this really bird's eye view and go, oh, why did I ever think this? Why was this normal to me? Because what is so normal to them, it's weird to me. They think the same thing about me, you know. So it was a really good cultural sharing experience of being able to learn, in retrospect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you just stayed for the two years. Did you think about extending?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. In hindsight, I wish I would have. But by the end of the two years, I was also feeling. I think a lot of people feel this way. They feel kind of a little bit stir crazy or you miss your family, you miss your friends, or you want to do something different. But at the same time, it was the best time of my life. And I think, you know, by the end of the second year, I was pretty fluent in the language. I was really comfortable. My jobs were going good. Had I carried on, I think I would have just done better. So I kind of regret not trying to do a third year. But I mean, I was younger. I was younger then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's not too late."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.81145212395891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where I think culture is more similar to a Western culture and Fiji is not very similar to Western culture at all. So I think that it gave me, well, I just didn't know what to expect. I had no idea really what Fijian culture would be about. I had never really even thought about Fijian culture. But what it did do is it gave me, I feel like as much as I learned about Fijian culture and I could go back to Fiji and sit down at any village and be comfortable to where a lot of people couldn't and know what's going on when a lot of people wouldn't. I also was able to look at my own culture in this really bird's eye view and go, oh, why did I ever think this? Why was this normal to me? Because what is so normal to them, it's weird to me. They think the same thing about me, you know. So it was a really good cultural sharing experience of being able to learn, in retrospect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you just stayed for the two years. Did you think about extending?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. In hindsight, I wish I would have. But by the end of the two years, I was also feeling. I think a lot of people feel this way. They feel kind of a little bit stir crazy or you miss your family, you miss your friends, or you want to do something different. But at the same time, it was the best time of my life. And I think, you know, by the end of the second year, I was pretty fluent in the language. I was really comfortable. My jobs were going good. Had I carried on, I think I would have just done better. So I kind of regret not trying to do a third year. But I mean, I was younger. I was younger then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's not too late."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's still. So what do you think some of your main accomplishments were there? You know, the Peace Corps, one of the goals is to transfer knowledge and expertise to your local counterparts. Do you think you had any effect there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.705496449331987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's still. So what do you think some of your main accomplishments were there? You know, the Peace Corps, one of the goals is to transfer knowledge and expertise to your local counterparts. Do you think you had any effect there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the one, the recycling rubbish program, I think was. I think they. I think they always kind of understood that it wasn't good, but it's kind of like if you just. Like I'm a park ranger right now and if I don't want people to use an illegal trail, if I just put brush on it, they'll move the brush. If I put brush on it and I put a sign, this is going to cause erosion and ruin the park and yadda yadda yadda, people seem to respect it. If you just, you know, after those I guess it was four years because there's a volunteer before me. They all got it and they saw the benefit of it and they just carried on. You know, it was trash is trash. And this new trash, especially for them because it was a new style of trash, has a lasting impact. And they'd asked me questions, you know, they'd ask me the questions that were hard to answer. If this plastic is so bad, why do you make it? Well, I wish I could answer that better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A good question, yeah. You weren't the first volunteer in that community, were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Second in the community, but first in my village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First in your village. So the people there probably didn't know what to expect of you. Do you think you, uh, that they had a better understanding of Americans after you were there for a couple of years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 16.543711916090004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the elders would talk about how all the young people were more like me and how they had these love marriages, which were brand new, and that these love marriages are no good. You know, there's one old guy who said he'd never even kissed his wife and that's like mind boggling to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So even in the Fijian culture they were arranging marriages before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. It's like, you never kiss your wife? You know, it just wasn't, there was no need for it. And as to where us, we went, you know, they see us wanting to fall in love and find this life partner. For them it was like it was just so much more practical. So I mean, I guess I still am looking at it from my own perspective, but they had asked me so many questions about love marriages. The older ones. The younger, I think the younger generation got it differently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure. Now so when you left Peace Corps then, what did you do after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I traveled. I went to Sri Lanka for about a month and Bali about a month. And then I ended up living in New Zealand for about a year and Australia for about a year and kind of did some traveling in between till I made my way back to the States and kind of went home up to Humboldt County, worked for a while, and made my way back or ended up getting a job here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you kept in touch with folks back in Fiji and some of your Peace Corps friends from the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.493013240100002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. It's like, you never kiss your wife? You know, it just wasn't, there was no need for it. And as to where us, we went, you know, they see us wanting to fall in love and find this life partner. For them it was like it was just so much more practical. So I mean, I guess I still am looking at it from my own perspective, but they had asked me so many questions about love marriages. The older ones. The younger, I think the younger generation got it differently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure. Now so when you left Peace Corps then, what did you do after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I traveled. I went to Sri Lanka for about a month and Bali about a month. And then I ended up living in New Zealand for about a year and Australia for about a year and kind of did some traveling in between till I made my way back to the States and kind of went home up to Humboldt County, worked for a while, and made my way back or ended up getting a job here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you kept in touch with folks back in Fiji and some of your Peace Corps friends from the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still got two of my good friends, Sarah and Amy. Amy lives up in Washington. Sarah just moved over to the East Coast. And then Corina, who was, I was friends with and she lived in a village kind of near mine, but she was there a year before me, so I only knew her for a year while I was there. She, we worked not together, but in similar departments so I'd see her often. And I had another friend, Christian, who was the year after me and he is a park ranger at Joshua Tree and we hang out kind of often. I go out there a lot and he comes here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you guys have this shared, kind of shared experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.547792489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I traveled. I went to Sri Lanka for about a month and Bali about a month. And then I ended up living in New Zealand for about a year and Australia for about a year and kind of did some traveling in between till I made my way back to the States and kind of went home up to Humboldt County, worked for a while, and made my way back or ended up getting a job here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you kept in touch with folks back in Fiji and some of your Peace Corps friends from the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still got two of my good friends, Sarah and Amy. Amy lives up in Washington. Sarah just moved over to the East Coast. And then Corina, who was, I was friends with and she lived in a village kind of near mine, but she was there a year before me, so I only knew her for a year while I was there. She, we worked not together, but in similar departments so I'd see her often. And I had another friend, Christian, who was the year after me and he is a park ranger at Joshua Tree and we hang out kind of often. I go out there a lot and he comes here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you guys have this shared, kind of shared experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I think you mentioned earlier that that kind of brings you together. You have something in common."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.2194969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I think you mentioned earlier that that kind of brings you together. You have something in common."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, Fiji was such a monumental moment in my life. I feel like there's probably, there's probably more times in a week that I mentioned something about Fiji than anything else I ever did. And so when you have somebody else that kind of understands it or knows a word or gets the humor behind it, it's really, it's really important and special."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like when I hear about old guys talking about their service in the military and like, that's where their defining moments. Peace Corps is really similar in the way that Peace Corps volunteers talk about it. You just kind of go, oh, you did that? You did that. Good job. You know, even if it wasn't the same country. The same country's even better, probably like Marines like Marines more than they like guys in the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your Fijian friends? You keep in touch with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1104900000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like when I hear about old guys talking about their service in the military and like, that's where their defining moments. Peace Corps is really similar in the way that Peace Corps volunteers talk about it. You just kind of go, oh, you did that? You did that. Good job. You know, even if it wasn't the same country. The same country's even better, probably like Marines like Marines more than they like guys in the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your Fijian friends? You keep in touch with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much. I was a little bit because Facebook came around, but then I got off Facebook and I haven't had that much touch. For a few years afterwards, I'd handwrite letters to a lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I just kind of, they never wrote back and I guess it faded away. But for a while I always wanted to write letters to people. And I think about them and like I have conversations in my head in Fijian with some of them to try and keep up with the words because there's nobody else to talk to in Fijian. But it's, sadly the language is fading. Every once in a while, like a couple of weeks ago, I was with my friend that is out in Joshua Tree and he was, he said a word and I was like, I don't remember that word. I was like, I don't even know if I ever learned that word, but I definitely don't remember. He's like, surely you learned that word. But it's, it's a cool, it's cool to know language, even though it's not a very useful language. It's cool to know such a unique language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. It's not like any other."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.4561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much. I was a little bit because Facebook came around, but then I got off Facebook and I haven't had that much touch. For a few years afterwards, I'd handwrite letters to a lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I just kind of, they never wrote back and I guess it faded away. But for a while I always wanted to write letters to people. And I think about them and like I have conversations in my head in Fijian with some of them to try and keep up with the words because there's nobody else to talk to in Fijian. But it's, sadly the language is fading. Every once in a while, like a couple of weeks ago, I was with my friend that is out in Joshua Tree and he was, he said a word and I was like, I don't remember that word. I was like, I don't even know if I ever learned that word, but I definitely don't remember. He's like, surely you learned that word. But it's, it's a cool, it's cool to know language, even though it's not a very useful language. It's cool to know such a unique language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. It's not like any other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I learned a dialect that's even more unique to the language, when I would go around Fiji and I could speak my dialect, it was really impressive to everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I bet. Especially the people in Nadroga."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I just kind of, they never wrote back and I guess it faded away. But for a while I always wanted to write letters to people. And I think about them and like I have conversations in my head in Fijian with some of them to try and keep up with the words because there's nobody else to talk to in Fijian. But it's, sadly the language is fading. Every once in a while, like a couple of weeks ago, I was with my friend that is out in Joshua Tree and he was, he said a word and I was like, I don't remember that word. I was like, I don't even know if I ever learned that word, but I definitely don't remember. He's like, surely you learned that word. But it's, it's a cool, it's cool to know language, even though it's not a very useful language. It's cool to know such a unique language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. It's not like any other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I learned a dialect that's even more unique to the language, when I would go around Fiji and I could speak my dialect, it was really impressive to everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I bet. Especially the people in Nadroga."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. You just say a couple Nadroga words. They'd just be like, oh!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So have you had the occasion to maybe talk to people since then that, since you've been back, that are thinking about going to the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00136:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I learned a dialect that's even more unique to the language, when I would go around Fiji and I could speak my dialect, it was really impressive to everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I bet. Especially the people in Nadroga."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. You just say a couple Nadroga words. They'd just be like, oh!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So have you had the occasion to maybe talk to people since then that, since you've been back, that are thinking about going to the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did a talk actually. I did a big talk for at Mesa College. There's a teacher that she does a lot of work with. So I'm a park ranger and she sends her students to work in the canyons with us. And she knew that I was in the Peace Corps, and she asked me if I would do a talk for an array of students. And so I went and talked about my experiences. And I was supposed to do it one other time, but they canceled it and she said she's got another event coming up that I'm going to go talk at. And just tell students, you know, it's kind of like they do these little groups and they can ask me whatever questions they want. And then there's a broad question and answer period, and it's probably 50 or 60 kids in there.\n\nAnd then any time anybody asks me about the Peace Corps, I tell them they should do it. If they're thinking about it, they should at least start the application because it's going to take ten months anyway. And if they really want to do it, just buy the ticket, take the ride. I mean, it's two years. It goes by so fast. You don't have much to lose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In retrospect, it doesn't seem like a long time, does it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.270242135434362, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was quite a football team. Earl Blaik was the head coach. I was the lowly manager, but Vince Lombardi was a coach. Sid Gilman was a coach. Murray Wurmouth was a coach. There were all kinds of people that went on to greater fame in sports that were working for Col. Blaik."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, one of the questions that the historians behind us wanted to know is whether Vince Lombardi in your—and your dealings with him then, did it have any impact? He’s known as such a—you know, his management style as a coach, other people have adopted in business. Did it have any effect on you as you went on in your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. He was very emotional, very intense. And he was a perfect compliment to Col. Blaik. So, but—you know, as I said, I was a lowly manager and I—and that didn’t really much of that rub off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about: You were teaching at West Point when Sputnik was launched—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—in 1957. Do you recall what your thoughts were when that happened?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.07804681714929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. He was very emotional, very intense. And he was a perfect compliment to Col. Blaik. So, but—you know, as I said, I was a lowly manager and I—and that didn’t really much of that rub off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about: You were teaching at West Point when Sputnik was launched—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—in 1957. Do you recall what your thoughts were when that happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I was really concerned. To be honest with you, I’d never even thought about rockets or space before. I—you know, I was into airplanes and I was a fighter pilot and I was only at West Point teaching over my great regret. I didn’t want to do it, but the military said, “That’s your job,” so I went to do it. And when they launched Sputnik, it was a real shock to me because it appeared that the—you know, there was a real Cold War going on back then, and it appeared that the Russians had got a big leg up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it—you know, following that, we tried to launch Vanguard in December of that year and it failed. Did you have—what were your concerns right then about our capabilities?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.086718685721433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—in 1957. Do you recall what your thoughts were when that happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I was really concerned. To be honest with you, I’d never even thought about rockets or space before. I—you know, I was into airplanes and I was a fighter pilot and I was only at West Point teaching over my great regret. I didn’t want to do it, but the military said, “That’s your job,” so I went to do it. And when they launched Sputnik, it was a real shock to me because it appeared that the—you know, there was a real Cold War going on back then, and it appeared that the Russians had got a big leg up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it—you know, following that, we tried to launch Vanguard in December of that year and it failed. Did you have—what were your concerns right then about our capabilities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the concerns then were: When are we going to catch up? I believe I was typical of a lot of people my age at that time. We were very concerned; and, of course, there—the political climate was exploiting the so-called “missile gap,” which turned out never existed but it made an impact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—when we were successful and launched Explorer 1, do you remember what your thoughts were then?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.207465206357146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I was really concerned. To be honest with you, I’d never even thought about rockets or space before. I—you know, I was into airplanes and I was a fighter pilot and I was only at West Point teaching over my great regret. I didn’t want to do it, but the military said, “That’s your job,” so I went to do it. And when they launched Sputnik, it was a real shock to me because it appeared that the—you know, there was a real Cold War going on back then, and it appeared that the Russians had got a big leg up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it—you know, following that, we tried to launch Vanguard in December of that year and it failed. Did you have—what were your concerns right then about our capabilities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the concerns then were: When are we going to catch up? I believe I was typical of a lot of people my age at that time. We were very concerned; and, of course, there—the political climate was exploiting the so-called “missile gap,” which turned out never existed but it made an impact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—when we were successful and launched Explorer 1, do you remember what your thoughts were then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I was very happy. Very pleased. Of course then the Russians trumped us with [Yuri A.] Gagarin, so we were back in the mess again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But even back then, did you see yourself playing a role in any of it? Or were you interested as a citizen, as a military—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 21.341628007063495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the concerns then were: When are we going to catch up? I believe I was typical of a lot of people my age at that time. We were very concerned; and, of course, there—the political climate was exploiting the so-called “missile gap,” which turned out never existed but it made an impact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—when we were successful and launched Explorer 1, do you remember what your thoughts were then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I was very happy. Very pleased. Of course then the Russians trumped us with [Yuri A.] Gagarin, so we were back in the mess again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But even back then, did you see yourself playing a role in any of it? Or were you interested as a citizen, as a military—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was interested in it as a Air Force officer and as an American citizen. I had no idea, no concept, or any desire to participate in that part of the business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you did get involved with rockets and then you played a role in developing the [Lockheed] F-104 Starfighter, how did that come about? I mean, how involved did you get personally?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.93514223007055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I was very happy. Very pleased. Of course then the Russians trumped us with [Yuri A.] Gagarin, so we were back in the mess again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But even back then, did you see yourself playing a role in any of it? Or were you interested as a citizen, as a military—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was interested in it as a Air Force officer and as an American citizen. I had no idea, no concept, or any desire to participate in that part of the business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you did get involved with rockets and then you played a role in developing the [Lockheed] F-104 Starfighter, how did that come about? I mean, how involved did you get personally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I left West Point, I went to the [Air Force] Test Pilot School [Edwards Air Force Base, California]. And then I stayed on there to teach because they were starting in what they called the graduate program, an advanced test pilot program, that would lead to, hopefully, prepare people to fly in space. And as a result of that, we wanted to get an airplane that would give you some sort of a feeling of reentry at a fraction of the cost of the Norbet, and so we—a friend of mine and myself came up with the idea of putting rockets on a 104. And we were in the process of running that through the Air Force and got it approved by everybody in the Air Force, and then I went to NASA. So I never even got to fly it! [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You never did get to fly in it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.705713588967278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was interested in it as a Air Force officer and as an American citizen. I had no idea, no concept, or any desire to participate in that part of the business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you did get involved with rockets and then you played a role in developing the [Lockheed] F-104 Starfighter, how did that come about? I mean, how involved did you get personally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I left West Point, I went to the [Air Force] Test Pilot School [Edwards Air Force Base, California]. And then I stayed on there to teach because they were starting in what they called the graduate program, an advanced test pilot program, that would lead to, hopefully, prepare people to fly in space. And as a result of that, we wanted to get an airplane that would give you some sort of a feeling of reentry at a fraction of the cost of the Norbet, and so we—a friend of mine and myself came up with the idea of putting rockets on a 104. And we were in the process of running that through the Air Force and got it approved by everybody in the Air Force, and then I went to NASA. So I never even got to fly it! [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You never did get to fly in it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—I guess when you got the word that you were going to become an astronaut (and I don’t know that you necessarily had to resign from the pilot school), but I read that your commanding officer was actually [Gen.] Chuck [Charles E.] Yeager."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.67301509885253, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I left West Point, I went to the [Air Force] Test Pilot School [Edwards Air Force Base, California]. And then I stayed on there to teach because they were starting in what they called the graduate program, an advanced test pilot program, that would lead to, hopefully, prepare people to fly in space. And as a result of that, we wanted to get an airplane that would give you some sort of a feeling of reentry at a fraction of the cost of the Norbet, and so we—a friend of mine and myself came up with the idea of putting rockets on a 104. And we were in the process of running that through the Air Force and got it approved by everybody in the Air Force, and then I went to NASA. So I never even got to fly it! [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You never did get to fly in it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—I guess when you got the word that you were going to become an astronaut (and I don’t know that you necessarily had to resign from the pilot school), but I read that your commanding officer was actually [Gen.] Chuck [Charles E.] Yeager."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go through that story of what you went to tell him."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.081127887613924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—I guess when you got the word that you were going to become an astronaut (and I don’t know that you necessarily had to resign from the pilot school), but I read that your commanding officer was actually [Gen.] Chuck [Charles E.] Yeager."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go through that story of what you went to tell him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I applied for the astronaut program, and the Air Force was very keen on getting people in the program. And as a matter of fact, we—those of us that were successful were interviewed and told by a Gen. Curtis LeMay, who was the Chief of Staff of the Air Force, in no uncertain terms that we were warriors in a Cold War and that—that our job was to go to NASA, do good for the country, and make the Air Force look good. I went back and I—\\n\\n Incidentally, I just saw Chuck Yeager in Kissimmee [Florida], too. But anyway, I went back and I walked in, and I never will forget: He was sitting at his desk. And I said, “Colonel, I’ve got some good news.” And he said, “What’s that?” And I said, “I just heard from NASA that I’ve been accepted. I’m going to be joining the astronaut program.” And he didn’t even look up. He said, “Well, Borman, you can kiss your blank career—Air Force career goodbye.” [laughs] So that was my sendoff from the Air Force. Actually, I never left the Air Force but from Edwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did you know, I know, you know, Chuck Yeager—so much was made of Chuck Yeager years later, and people have this one view of him. I mean, you worked with him. What were your feelings about him?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.349969667508809, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was a great—he is a great patriot and a great guy to work for. He’s mellowed a lot, as I said I saw him in Kissimmee this year. But he would give you a job and let you do it. It was very, very good to have him at the Test Pilot School because he had a lot of clout in the Air Force, and we were trying to build up and get the airplanes and get the resources to really start this program; and he was very instrumental in helping us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think his—the bitterness that we’ve all been led to believe he felt about not getting the chance to be an astronaut, do you think that was overplayed or—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think he even wanted to be astronaut. I think by then he was a colonel in the Air Force, and I think he was a happy camper at Edwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Let’s move on to the NASA experience. What did you expect when you were—I mean, you had some idea of the astronaut program because, you know, you had that original Mercury seven to look to. But what were your expectations? What were your family’s expectations of the experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we were going into the great unknown, to be honest with you. I had been to the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] once before in conjunction with this program we’d started at Edwards, so I knew something about the Cape. But interestingly enough, we got down there (three Air Force officers), and NASA wouldn’t let in! So it was a great, big unknown. I don’t know what to expect. Certainly my wife, with two small children, didn’t know what to expect. We kind of went there like babes in the wood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you say you went down there, “three Air Force officers,” was that was when you were on Starfighter? Or was—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.944410741676455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think he even wanted to be astronaut. I think by then he was a colonel in the Air Force, and I think he was a happy camper at Edwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Let’s move on to the NASA experience. What did you expect when you were—I mean, you had some idea of the astronaut program because, you know, you had that original Mercury seven to look to. But what were your expectations? What were your family’s expectations of the experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we were going into the great unknown, to be honest with you. I had been to the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] once before in conjunction with this program we’d started at Edwards, so I knew something about the Cape. But interestingly enough, we got down there (three Air Force officers), and NASA wouldn’t let in! So it was a great, big unknown. I don’t know what to expect. Certainly my wife, with two small children, didn’t know what to expect. We kind of went there like babes in the wood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you say you went down there, “three Air Force officers,” was that was when you were on Starfighter? Or was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s when we were at the Test Pilot School. We went down to watch a launch, and we didn’t have the right credentials to get in. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh that’s funny."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.71601193519606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we were going into the great unknown, to be honest with you. I had been to the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] once before in conjunction with this program we’d started at Edwards, so I knew something about the Cape. But interestingly enough, we got down there (three Air Force officers), and NASA wouldn’t let in! So it was a great, big unknown. I don’t know what to expect. Certainly my wife, with two small children, didn’t know what to expect. We kind of went there like babes in the wood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you say you went down there, “three Air Force officers,” was that was when you were on Starfighter? Or was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s when we were at the Test Pilot School. We went down to watch a launch, and we didn’t have the right credentials to get in. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh that’s funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s funny. Were there any goals? Like, back in 1962 when you were chosen, that you think: “Oh, I have these goals.” And how—when you were—when you left in 1970, had you met all those goals? Or—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.240013261328956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s when we were at the Test Pilot School. We went down to watch a launch, and we didn’t have the right credentials to get in. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh that’s funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s funny. Were there any goals? Like, back in 1962 when you were chosen, that you think: “Oh, I have these goals.” And how—when you were—when you left in 1970, had you met all those goals? Or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I had not I’ve never been a person that set a goal that—my reason for joining NASA was to participate in the Apollo Program, the lunar program, and hopefully beat the Russians. I never looked at it for any individual goals. I never wanted to be the first person on the Moon or I and frankly, as far as I was concerned, when Apollo 11 was over the mission was over. The rest was frosting on the cake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They gave the astronauts kind of these technical assignments, too, and I guess you had boosters on Titan II. Why did they give you that specialty, do you know?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.377792512587728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s funny. Were there any goals? Like, back in 1962 when you were chosen, that you think: “Oh, I have these goals.” And how—when you were—when you left in 1970, had you met all those goals? Or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I had not I’ve never been a person that set a goal that—my reason for joining NASA was to participate in the Apollo Program, the lunar program, and hopefully beat the Russians. I never looked at it for any individual goals. I never wanted to be the first person on the Moon or I and frankly, as far as I was concerned, when Apollo 11 was over the mission was over. The rest was frosting on the cake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They gave the astronauts kind of these technical assignments, too, and I guess you had boosters on Titan II. Why did they give you that specialty, do you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea how they handled out the specialties. I was just told that I was going to be specializing in boosters; and so I went to the Titan II and then to the Apollo, the Saturn V Program down at [George C. Marshall Space Flight Center] Huntsville [Alabama]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any expertise in that area that—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.641991680653032, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I had not I’ve never been a person that set a goal that—my reason for joining NASA was to participate in the Apollo Program, the lunar program, and hopefully beat the Russians. I never looked at it for any individual goals. I never wanted to be the first person on the Moon or I and frankly, as far as I was concerned, when Apollo 11 was over the mission was over. The rest was frosting on the cake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They gave the astronauts kind of these technical assignments, too, and I guess you had boosters on Titan II. Why did they give you that specialty, do you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea how they handled out the specialties. I was just told that I was going to be specializing in boosters; and so I went to the Titan II and then to the Apollo, the Saturn V Program down at [George C. Marshall Space Flight Center] Huntsville [Alabama]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any expertise in that area that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no special expertise in that area. I had a—I had been teaching Thermodynamics, and I had a master’s degree in Aeronautical Engineering, so maybe they thought that was some way, you know, helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they think maybe your experience with the Starfighter might—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.935546311836701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea how they handled out the specialties. I was just told that I was going to be specializing in boosters; and so I went to the Titan II and then to the Apollo, the Saturn V Program down at [George C. Marshall Space Flight Center] Huntsville [Alabama]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any expertise in that area that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no special expertise in that area. I had a—I had been teaching Thermodynamics, and I had a master’s degree in Aeronautical Engineering, so maybe they thought that was some way, you know, helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they think maybe your experience with the Starfighter might—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, see because the Starfighter—I never—I flew the 104 a lot, but I never got to fly the one with the rockets on it. That came after I was gone. Now we did an awful lot of work—an awful lot of work—in high-drag landings (that I hope are helpful to the—what the Shuttle is doing now) with the 104. But of course that had no application in the Apollo Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There is a committee that you were on that—I don’t want to say “There’s mystery about it,” but it—the Crew Safety Committee that you were on, I guess, from ’63 to ’64. Just—can you—do you even remember what that was? Or can you clarify what it was?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.297045695249246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t have any idea what it was. I can’t remember. It wasn’t very important. I—the main thing that I had as the rocket specialist was to make certain that the crew had a chance to escape in the event of an anomaly with the launch. I remember: We went to Aerojet once to look at—for—to look at a Titan II firing. And I was concerned (we were all concerned) that—the Titan has two barrels. And we were concerned that—what we be the turning moment if one of those barrels failed at launch. And, the Aerojet people informed us that that could never happen. There were all kinds of safety devices. We would never have a failure mode where one rocket would—where one barrel wouldn’t light. So they proceeded to turn it on, and guess what happened? Only one barrel lit. You never saw more chagrined Aerojet people in the world. But they fixed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess your role on that committee, you made a difference. I hear them hammering. You’re—\\n\\n [Break]\\n\\n VOICE OFF CAMERA: We are recording again.\n\nAll right. I wanted to ask you an interesting story about Gemini III in that—that you kind of had an idea you were going to be [Virgil I.] Gus Grissom’s copilot and then he had you over to dinner. And what happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was told that I was going to be a—fly with Gus on the first flight of Gemini. No, he didn’t have me to dinner, but I went over to his house to talk to him about it. And we had a long talk, and [laughs] after that I was scrubbed from the flight. So I guess that I didn’t pass the test with Grissom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don’t know why. Nobody ever said anything to me about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you never asked him?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.552272994721383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was told that I was going to be a—fly with Gus on the first flight of Gemini. No, he didn’t have me to dinner, but I went over to his house to talk to him about it. And we had a long talk, and [laughs] after that I was scrubbed from the flight. So I guess that I didn’t pass the test with Grissom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don’t know why. Nobody ever said anything to me about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you never asked him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never asked. Could have cared less."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] How come you couldn’t care less?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.94696999413487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don’t know why. Nobody ever said anything to me about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you never asked him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never asked. Could have cared less."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] How come you couldn’t care less?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, if they didn’t want me, I didn’t want to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But not everybody has that personality."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.496633326816522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never asked. Could have cared less."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] How come you couldn’t care less?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, if they didn’t want me, I didn’t want to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But not everybody has that personality."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well [laughs], I’m stuck with it!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It served you well. Well then, let’s move on to Gemini IV, where you were the backup crew."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 17.21848147424058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, if they didn’t want me, I didn’t want to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But not everybody has that personality."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well [laughs], I’m stuck with it!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It served you well. Well then, let’s move on to Gemini IV, where you were the backup crew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take part in EVA [extravehicular activity] training for that, too, as—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.353868304711755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well [laughs], I’m stuck with it!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It served you well. Well then, let’s move on to Gemini IV, where you were the backup crew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take part in EVA [extravehicular activity] training for that, too, as—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t take part in the EVA training. As a matter of fact, I was against putting the EVA in the mission. They—you know, they added the EVA quite late in the program in response to [Soviet Cosmonaut Alexei A.] Leonov’s EVA, and I was concerned about the ability to pull it off. But [Pilot] Ed [Edward H. White II] and [Commander] Jim [James A. McDivitt] were very anxious to do it; and, of course, it worked out very well. I was wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you—there’s numerous examples over your career of when you do speak out about things like that. And you say, you know, “This is too much.” Or—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.615409227457505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take part in EVA [extravehicular activity] training for that, too, as—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t take part in the EVA training. As a matter of fact, I was against putting the EVA in the mission. They—you know, they added the EVA quite late in the program in response to [Soviet Cosmonaut Alexei A.] Leonov’s EVA, and I was concerned about the ability to pull it off. But [Pilot] Ed [Edward H. White II] and [Commander] Jim [James A. McDivitt] were very anxious to do it; and, of course, it worked out very well. I was wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you—there’s numerous examples over your career of when you do speak out about things like that. And you say, you know, “This is too much.” Or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the—how was that taken at the time? I mean, was it seen as—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.017121363841673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t take part in the EVA training. As a matter of fact, I was against putting the EVA in the mission. They—you know, they added the EVA quite late in the program in response to [Soviet Cosmonaut Alexei A.] Leonov’s EVA, and I was concerned about the ability to pull it off. But [Pilot] Ed [Edward H. White II] and [Commander] Jim [James A. McDivitt] were very anxious to do it; and, of course, it worked out very well. I was wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you—there’s numerous examples over your career of when you do speak out about things like that. And you say, you know, “This is too much.” Or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the—how was that taken at the time? I mean, was it seen as—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I thought it was taken well. I thought NASA, at that time, was about as good a management team as you could get because they expected everybody to tell how they felt, to express their concerns, to, you know, reasonably and effectively say what they felt. But then once the decision was made, they also expected you to pitch in. And when they made the decision I pitched in. It was—it seems to me that’s the ideal way for management to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the decision was made to go ahead with the EVA, I guess the crew really did push for a spacesuit with a new, special kind of coating: a G4C with a cover layer. Were you involved in that at all, in trying to transition to a newer suit?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.574579293157413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the—how was that taken at the time? I mean, was it seen as—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I thought it was taken well. I thought NASA, at that time, was about as good a management team as you could get because they expected everybody to tell how they felt, to express their concerns, to, you know, reasonably and effectively say what they felt. But then once the decision was made, they also expected you to pitch in. And when they made the decision I pitched in. It was—it seems to me that’s the ideal way for management to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the decision was made to go ahead with the EVA, I guess the crew really did push for a spacesuit with a new, special kind of coating: a G4C with a cover layer. Were you involved in that at all, in trying to transition to a newer suit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The mission when you flew, on Gemini VII, in a 14-day mission, do you remember what your thoughts were when they first said to you, “14 days”?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.943925053280756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The mission when you flew, on Gemini VII, in a 14-day mission, do you remember what your thoughts were when they first said to you, “14 days”?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Gemini VII was looked upon among the astronaut group as, you know, not much of a pilot’s mission. Just sort of a medical experiment mission, which it was. And we got the mission as you know, I think one of the great people in NASA was Deke [Donald K.] Slayton. He was—he had the integrity that was required; and I never talked to him once about crew assignments. I’ve heard that other people would try to lobby him for it, but I didn’t. And I figured when they gave me Gemini VII, we’d do the best we could with it.\\n\\n And fortunately I didn’t have a choice in [Pilot James A.] Lovell [Jr.] either, but it turns out that was wonderful. Jim Lovell was a wonderful guy to spend 14 days with in a very small place. But the—we had a lot of interesting things. You know, some of the doctors said, “Oh well, in order to do that you’re going to have to simulate it on Earth and see if you can stay in one g for 14 days.” And I, you know, “They’re out of their mind. Fourteen days sitting in a straight-up ejection seat on Earth? You’re crazy!”\\n\\n And so I was able—NASA at that time listened to the crewmembers when—in areas. We were able to get that nonsense kicked out in a hurry. And then we just went about our business, doing the best we could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they wanted you all to (what?) simulate—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah! Two weeks in one g! Come on, give me a break! That didn’t last long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—with no bathroom breaks or anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.271027836978618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Gemini VII was looked upon among the astronaut group as, you know, not much of a pilot’s mission. Just sort of a medical experiment mission, which it was. And we got the mission as you know, I think one of the great people in NASA was Deke [Donald K.] Slayton. He was—he had the integrity that was required; and I never talked to him once about crew assignments. I’ve heard that other people would try to lobby him for it, but I didn’t. And I figured when they gave me Gemini VII, we’d do the best we could with it.\\n\\n And fortunately I didn’t have a choice in [Pilot James A.] Lovell [Jr.] either, but it turns out that was wonderful. Jim Lovell was a wonderful guy to spend 14 days with in a very small place. But the—we had a lot of interesting things. You know, some of the doctors said, “Oh well, in order to do that you’re going to have to simulate it on Earth and see if you can stay in one g for 14 days.” And I, you know, “They’re out of their mind. Fourteen days sitting in a straight-up ejection seat on Earth? You’re crazy!”\\n\\n And so I was able—NASA at that time listened to the crewmembers when—in areas. We were able to get that nonsense kicked out in a hurry. And then we just went about our business, doing the best we could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they wanted you all to (what?) simulate—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah! Two weeks in one g! Come on, give me a break! That didn’t last long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—with no bathroom breaks or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—no. Just in one g."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just you and—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.745586485531797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah! Two weeks in one g! Come on, give me a break! That didn’t last long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—with no bathroom breaks or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—no. Just in one g."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just you and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t think you could do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—just you and Jim Lovell?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.38398498392422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—no. Just in one g."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just you and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t think you could do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—just you and Jim Lovell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When things went wrong with hooking up with, you know, Wally [Walter M.] Schirra’s [Jr.] part of that part of your mission, in hooking up with VI-A; and, you know,—and that mission was juggled around and changes were suggested; and you played a role in deciding what was finally going to happen. Walk us through that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.759983315471354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t think you could do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—just you and Jim Lovell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When things went wrong with hooking up with, you know, Wally [Walter M.] Schirra’s [Jr.] part of that part of your mission, in hooking up with VI-A; and, you know,—and that mission was juggled around and changes were suggested; and you played a role in deciding what was finally going to happen. Walk us through that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were down at the Cape for the launch of Gemini VI, and the Agena went off and everybody thought they had a good target vehicle. It turns out it blew up after it was out of sight. But in any event, before we walked out of that blockhouse, John [F.] Yardley and Chris [Christopher C.] Kraft and some others were already starting, “How can we use Gemini VII as a target vehicle?” And it—that was NASA at that time. There was a tremendous imperative to do—to reach the Moon before the Russians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you—what was your initial reaction? I guess it was George [M.] Low and John Yardley were really driving that thing of, “Let’s let you hook up with—”"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.844425906079282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When things went wrong with hooking up with, you know, Wally [Walter M.] Schirra’s [Jr.] part of that part of your mission, in hooking up with VI-A; and, you know,—and that mission was juggled around and changes were suggested; and you played a role in deciding what was finally going to happen. Walk us through that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were down at the Cape for the launch of Gemini VI, and the Agena went off and everybody thought they had a good target vehicle. It turns out it blew up after it was out of sight. But in any event, before we walked out of that blockhouse, John [F.] Yardley and Chris [Christopher C.] Kraft and some others were already starting, “How can we use Gemini VII as a target vehicle?” And it—that was NASA at that time. There was a tremendous imperative to do—to reach the Moon before the Russians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you—what was your initial reaction? I guess it was George [M.] Low and John Yardley were really driving that thing of, “Let’s let you hook up with—”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think it was George Low as much as it was John Yardley and then Chuck [Charles W.] Mathews, who was running the Gemini Program. Low may’ve had a hand in it. I don’t know. But in any event, I was all for it. I thought it was great. And this is another example of the flexibility in management that made NASA so successful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When—there’s a story about when you were—when Wally Schirra had hung up this sign in the window: “Beat Army.”"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.049362117865869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were down at the Cape for the launch of Gemini VI, and the Agena went off and everybody thought they had a good target vehicle. It turns out it blew up after it was out of sight. But in any event, before we walked out of that blockhouse, John [F.] Yardley and Chris [Christopher C.] Kraft and some others were already starting, “How can we use Gemini VII as a target vehicle?” And it—that was NASA at that time. There was a tremendous imperative to do—to reach the Moon before the Russians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you—what was your initial reaction? I guess it was George [M.] Low and John Yardley were really driving that thing of, “Let’s let you hook up with—”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think it was George Low as much as it was John Yardley and then Chuck [Charles W.] Mathews, who was running the Gemini Program. Low may’ve had a hand in it. I don’t know. But in any event, I was all for it. I thought it was great. And this is another example of the flexibility in management that made NASA so successful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When—there’s a story about when you were—when Wally Schirra had hung up this sign in the window: “Beat Army.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that you purposely misread it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.875755701068972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that you purposely misread it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "“Beat Navy.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of that moment? Take us through this."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.084173001187747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "“Beat Navy.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of that moment? Take us through this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s true. We were—we’d—Lovell and I had been up there for 11 or 12 days (I don’t remember how long). And we were tired, and the systems on the spacecraft were failing. We were running out of fuel, and it was a real high point to see this bright light (it looked like a star) came up, and then eventually we could see it was a Gemini vehicle. And we found that we could—we had very limited fuel. But we found that the autopilot for the controls were perfect. You could fly formation with no problem. And then Wally slapped up the thing: “Beat Army.”\\n\\n Wally was always one to inject some levity into the program. And, God bless him, he really did a good job in everything he did. He just has a different—he has that little quirk of being able to include some fun with things. I never had that. I didn’t think much about the “Beat Army” sign, although it was fun at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think you didn’t like to take part in all the practical jokes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.696509878009563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s true. We were—we’d—Lovell and I had been up there for 11 or 12 days (I don’t remember how long). And we were tired, and the systems on the spacecraft were failing. We were running out of fuel, and it was a real high point to see this bright light (it looked like a star) came up, and then eventually we could see it was a Gemini vehicle. And we found that we could—we had very limited fuel. But we found that the autopilot for the controls were perfect. You could fly formation with no problem. And then Wally slapped up the thing: “Beat Army.”\\n\\n Wally was always one to inject some levity into the program. And, God bless him, he really did a good job in everything he did. He just has a different—he has that little quirk of being able to include some fun with things. I never had that. I didn’t think much about the “Beat Army” sign, although it was fun at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think you didn’t like to take part in all the practical jokes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uhm-hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it’s just the way I’m built. I don’t have any other reason. You know, I would have—well, when—on Apollo (we’re skipping ahead, but)—when on Apollo, when we opened up the dinner for Christmas and I found somebody had included brandy in there, you know, I didn’t think that was funny at all. Because you and I both know, if we’d have drunk one drop of that damn brandy and the thing would have blown up on the way home, they’d have blamed the brandy on it. You know, I wanted to do the mission and I didn’t care about the other crap. I didn’t care about the food or anything else. I just wanted to get it done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other things from your Gemini mission that—and they specifically want you to tell, maybe things that weren’t in your book Countdown? Any stories that you’ve—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.77389986445507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uhm-hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it’s just the way I’m built. I don’t have any other reason. You know, I would have—well, when—on Apollo (we’re skipping ahead, but)—when on Apollo, when we opened up the dinner for Christmas and I found somebody had included brandy in there, you know, I didn’t think that was funny at all. Because you and I both know, if we’d have drunk one drop of that damn brandy and the thing would have blown up on the way home, they’d have blamed the brandy on it. You know, I wanted to do the mission and I didn’t care about the other crap. I didn’t care about the food or anything else. I just wanted to get it done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other things from your Gemini mission that—and they specifically want you to tell, maybe things that weren’t in your book Countdown? Any stories that you’ve—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I—the interesting thing—one of the interesting things was flying formation with the second stage that put us into orbit and using an infrared sensor to track that. We referred to it as a “bogey” all the time, which was natural, normal parlance for it. And when we got back, True magazine wrote a big story about how we’d been tracking a UFO and all that nonsense. So I’ve been plagued with that ever since. People say, “Well,”—if you run into UFO circles today, they’ll still tell you, well, we saw a UFO. Which is just foolish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And look where you moved."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.970999849394522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it’s just the way I’m built. I don’t have any other reason. You know, I would have—well, when—on Apollo (we’re skipping ahead, but)—when on Apollo, when we opened up the dinner for Christmas and I found somebody had included brandy in there, you know, I didn’t think that was funny at all. Because you and I both know, if we’d have drunk one drop of that damn brandy and the thing would have blown up on the way home, they’d have blamed the brandy on it. You know, I wanted to do the mission and I didn’t care about the other crap. I didn’t care about the food or anything else. I just wanted to get it done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other things from your Gemini mission that—and they specifically want you to tell, maybe things that weren’t in your book Countdown? Any stories that you’ve—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I—the interesting thing—one of the interesting things was flying formation with the second stage that put us into orbit and using an infrared sensor to track that. We referred to it as a “bogey” all the time, which was natural, normal parlance for it. And when we got back, True magazine wrote a big story about how we’d been tracking a UFO and all that nonsense. So I’ve been plagued with that ever since. People say, “Well,”—if you run into UFO circles today, they’ll still tell you, well, we saw a UFO. Which is just foolish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And look where you moved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sorry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Look where you moved. UFO country. Las Cruces."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.33456771530188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sorry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Look where you moved. UFO country. Las Cruces."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right! [laughs] Over here in—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—over here in Roswell [New Mexico]. That’s right. But the last few days were really trying. And, you know, the—I was very concerned about the fuel cells. And again, this was another example, I—of the concern that I had being really put to rest by Chris Kraft. He came on and told me, “Yeah, we have enough fuel in the fuel cells. It’s going to be all right to go the whole 14 days.” And so I had so much confidence in him, I quit worrying about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a tough flight. Talk about readjusting, when you got down. I mean, were you surprised at—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.038408572557643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right! [laughs] Over here in—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—over here in Roswell [New Mexico]. That’s right. But the last few days were really trying. And, you know, the—I was very concerned about the fuel cells. And again, this was another example, I—of the concern that I had being really put to rest by Chris Kraft. He came on and told me, “Yeah, we have enough fuel in the fuel cells. It’s going to be all right to go the whole 14 days.” And so I had so much confidence in him, I quit worrying about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a tough flight. Talk about readjusting, when you got down. I mean, were you surprised at—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a—you know, the doctors had made (as they did all the time in that era)—made more out of it than it really was. So they had Lovell with garters on that pneumatically contracted and then let out to try to impede the blood flowing back to the heart and to make the—trick the body and to think it was in one g. I was a control mechanism. I didn’t have any. And the thought—some people even said that when we—when the Gemini snapped upright as we were on the parachute, that we would pass out or perhaps even die. And of course, we didn’t. And it—about the only thing that I really felt after 2 weeks like that were the—our leg muscles were shot. And it took about 3 or 4 days; and I guess you could feel it for a week or so afterwards. But it wasn’t any big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you imagine what it would be like to stay up on [Russian space station] Mir for, you know, 6 months or—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.820453969508492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—over here in Roswell [New Mexico]. That’s right. But the last few days were really trying. And, you know, the—I was very concerned about the fuel cells. And again, this was another example, I—of the concern that I had being really put to rest by Chris Kraft. He came on and told me, “Yeah, we have enough fuel in the fuel cells. It’s going to be all right to go the whole 14 days.” And so I had so much confidence in him, I quit worrying about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a tough flight. Talk about readjusting, when you got down. I mean, were you surprised at—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a—you know, the doctors had made (as they did all the time in that era)—made more out of it than it really was. So they had Lovell with garters on that pneumatically contracted and then let out to try to impede the blood flowing back to the heart and to make the—trick the body and to think it was in one g. I was a control mechanism. I didn’t have any. And the thought—some people even said that when we—when the Gemini snapped upright as we were on the parachute, that we would pass out or perhaps even die. And of course, we didn’t. And it—about the only thing that I really felt after 2 weeks like that were the—our leg muscles were shot. And it took about 3 or 4 days; and I guess you could feel it for a week or so afterwards. But it wasn’t any big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you imagine what it would be like to stay up on [Russian space station] Mir for, you know, 6 months or—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I admire those people. It would take an awful lot of mental toughness, self-discipline, and it would take a (I hope they have) means to (I’m sure they do)—they have means to exercise some while they’re up there. But I have great admiration for those people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you miss the most when you were up there? What comforts of Earth?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.68939329945388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a—you know, the doctors had made (as they did all the time in that era)—made more out of it than it really was. So they had Lovell with garters on that pneumatically contracted and then let out to try to impede the blood flowing back to the heart and to make the—trick the body and to think it was in one g. I was a control mechanism. I didn’t have any. And the thought—some people even said that when we—when the Gemini snapped upright as we were on the parachute, that we would pass out or perhaps even die. And of course, we didn’t. And it—about the only thing that I really felt after 2 weeks like that were the—our leg muscles were shot. And it took about 3 or 4 days; and I guess you could feel it for a week or so afterwards. But it wasn’t any big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you imagine what it would be like to stay up on [Russian space station] Mir for, you know, 6 months or—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I admire those people. It would take an awful lot of mental toughness, self-discipline, and it would take a (I hope they have) means to (I’m sure they do)—they have means to exercise some while they’re up there. But I have great admiration for those people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you miss the most when you were up there? What comforts of Earth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn’t much—so much miss so much, it was just putting up with what we had to put up with. The food didn’t bother me or anything else. It was boring. You know, when you’re out of attitude control fuel and you’re just drifting, tumbling through space, time goes slow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yet some of the descriptions of what you all had to put up with: the bathroom facilities are—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.654881443837644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I admire those people. It would take an awful lot of mental toughness, self-discipline, and it would take a (I hope they have) means to (I’m sure they do)—they have means to exercise some while they’re up there. But I have great admiration for those people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you miss the most when you were up there? What comforts of Earth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn’t much—so much miss so much, it was just putting up with what we had to put up with. The food didn’t bother me or anything else. It was boring. You know, when you’re out of attitude control fuel and you’re just drifting, tumbling through space, time goes slow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yet some of the descriptions of what you all had to put up with: the bathroom facilities are—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh the bathroom facilities were primitive. But it’s—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That’s being kind."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.685038819552645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh the bathroom facilities were primitive. But it’s—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That’s being kind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s right; I was being kind. But, again, we were very fortunate. Well, I was very fortunate because Lovell was a great partner. We even ended up—I don’t know how in the world we could, but in that small area, somehow, that small volume, we lost a toothbrush. We ended up sharing a toothbrush! [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Unbelievable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s like being on a Boy Scout camping trip."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.872265355058493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s right; I was being kind. But, again, we were very fortunate. Well, I was very fortunate because Lovell was a great partner. We even ended up—I don’t know how in the world we could, but in that small area, somehow, that small volume, we lost a toothbrush. We ended up sharing a toothbrush! [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Unbelievable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s like being on a Boy Scout camping trip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, you’d been on Gemini and then you were there when the Apollo spacecraft was being developed. And it was two different companies: you had McDonnell [Aircraft Corporation]for one, and then you had North American [Aviation, Inc.] for Apollo. So it’s kind of like that first taste of switching contractors. What do you remember from that process? Any differences in the—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.635850394509437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Unbelievable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s like being on a Boy Scout camping trip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, you’d been on Gemini and then you were there when the Apollo spacecraft was being developed. And it was two different companies: you had McDonnell [Aircraft Corporation]for one, and then you had North American [Aviation, Inc.] for Apollo. So it’s kind of like that first taste of switching contractors. What do you remember from that process? Any differences in the—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like going from night to day. McDonnell was much more informal and, you know, I think everybody really had a great deal of respect for Mr. [James S.] McDonnell [Jr.], for John Yardley, and for Walter [F.] Burke. And it was a sort of a countrified company. I don’t know: You just had the feeling of people that did their work and weren’t very fancy about it. You went to North American, and they had layers and layers of briefers and this and that and the other things, and customer service or customer reps. I don’t know. It was also a feeling what—that I had the feeling, “Well, we built the X-15. We did this. We did that. We know more than everything about it.” You know, so—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What? That they felt that knew more?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.484278216121597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, you’d been on Gemini and then you were there when the Apollo spacecraft was being developed. And it was two different companies: you had McDonnell [Aircraft Corporation]for one, and then you had North American [Aviation, Inc.] for Apollo. So it’s kind of like that first taste of switching contractors. What do you remember from that process? Any differences in the—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like going from night to day. McDonnell was much more informal and, you know, I think everybody really had a great deal of respect for Mr. [James S.] McDonnell [Jr.], for John Yardley, and for Walter [F.] Burke. And it was a sort of a countrified company. I don’t know: You just had the feeling of people that did their work and weren’t very fancy about it. You went to North American, and they had layers and layers of briefers and this and that and the other things, and customer service or customer reps. I don’t know. It was also a feeling what—that I had the feeling, “Well, we built the X-15. We did this. We did that. We know more than everything about it.” You know, so—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What? That they felt that knew more?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knew more than you? Do you think that played a role, that feeling, in then what would later happen with Apollo 1?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.4386194423435406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the years of training! Everybody was there was a pilot, you know. Well, “We’ve got a better way of doing it. We’re North American. We’re engineer—we’re human factor engineers. We understand this.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got it fixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s talk about North American a little bit and the Apollo 1 fire. I’m—you know, you’ve said that you’re a straight-shooter. So, you know, it comes out later that there was criticism before the fire, that there was [Thomas R.] Baron’s report in ’66 and then [Gen.] Sam [Samuel C.] Phillips had written (I guess) his unpublished report criticizing North American. Were you aware of any of that, though, at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was aware of the fact—as a matter of fact, we were assigned to the crew early on with one of the Block 1 spacecraft. But Gus [Grissom] and Ed [White] and Roger [B. Chaffee] were leaders in that, and I was aware they were having a lot of trouble with the spacecraft. But you know, when we were assigned our individual missions, we sort of focused on that; and the feedback would come through Deke or through meetings we’d have. But nobody felt it as intensely as the people that were involved in it. But I did know they were having a lot of trouble with the spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know things had been written? Like, that somebody had actually put down on paper?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.931799380381712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got it fixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s talk about North American a little bit and the Apollo 1 fire. I’m—you know, you’ve said that you’re a straight-shooter. So, you know, it comes out later that there was criticism before the fire, that there was [Thomas R.] Baron’s report in ’66 and then [Gen.] Sam [Samuel C.] Phillips had written (I guess) his unpublished report criticizing North American. Were you aware of any of that, though, at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was aware of the fact—as a matter of fact, we were assigned to the crew early on with one of the Block 1 spacecraft. But Gus [Grissom] and Ed [White] and Roger [B. Chaffee] were leaders in that, and I was aware they were having a lot of trouble with the spacecraft. But you know, when we were assigned our individual missions, we sort of focused on that; and the feedback would come through Deke or through meetings we’d have. But nobody felt it as intensely as the people that were involved in it. But I did know they were having a lot of trouble with the spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know things had been written? Like, that somebody had actually put down on paper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About the Phillips report? No, I didn’t know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The other astronauts’ complaints. Like, as you said, what credence did you give them? You knew about them, but did you—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.479777089313012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was aware of the fact—as a matter of fact, we were assigned to the crew early on with one of the Block 1 spacecraft. But Gus [Grissom] and Ed [White] and Roger [B. Chaffee] were leaders in that, and I was aware they were having a lot of trouble with the spacecraft. But you know, when we were assigned our individual missions, we sort of focused on that; and the feedback would come through Deke or through meetings we’d have. But nobody felt it as intensely as the people that were involved in it. But I did know they were having a lot of trouble with the spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know things had been written? Like, that somebody had actually put down on paper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About the Phillips report? No, I didn’t know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The other astronauts’ complaints. Like, as you said, what credence did you give them? You knew about them, but did you—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think everybody thought, “Well, it’s a first time. It’s a very complicated vehicle. These are things that will work out.” I’m sure that’s the way the crew felt, you know; that they were disgusted, they were trying to make it happen. But I’m sure they felt it would get fixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have your own individual concerns at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.765156900386435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think everybody thought, “Well, it’s a first time. It’s a very complicated vehicle. These are things that will work out.” I’m sure that’s the way the crew felt, you know; that they were disgusted, they were trying to make it happen. But I’m sure they felt it would get fixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have your own individual concerns at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess when the fire happened, I read that you were actually in a cabin somewhere in Texas."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.516841000429372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess when the fire happened, I read that you were actually in a cabin somewhere in Texas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you at? In Texas?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.352045556032635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess when the fire happened, I read that you were actually in a cabin somewhere in Texas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you at? In Texas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were having dinner with some friends on a lake in Huntsville, Texas; and a highway patrolman knocked on the door. And how in the world anybody ever found that, I’ll never know, because I didn’t tell a soul. It was my family and I were up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They said it was a Texas Ranger, I guess. Is that their—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.31116735312671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were having dinner with some friends on a lake in Huntsville, Texas; and a highway patrolman knocked on the door. And how in the world anybody ever found that, I’ll never know, because I didn’t tell a soul. It was my family and I were up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They said it was a Texas Ranger, I guess. Is that their—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it was a highway patrolman—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knocked on the door?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.345741503474121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it was a highway patrolman—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knocked on the door?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Knocked on the door and said that I was supposed to call Houston right away. And so I did, and that’s how I found out about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you immediately fly to the Cape?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.939712781637913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knocked on the door?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Knocked on the door and said that I was supposed to call Houston right away. And so I did, and that’s how I found out about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you immediately fly to the Cape?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back. Susan [Borman] and I left and drove back to Houston and went to—went over to Ed White’s house, because Susan was close to Pat White, and stayed there for—I left the next morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did—what was your initial reaction? I mean, your—the human reaction."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.488569757375458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Knocked on the door and said that I was supposed to call Houston right away. And so I did, and that’s how I found out about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you immediately fly to the Cape?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back. Susan [Borman] and I left and drove back to Houston and went to—went over to Ed White’s house, because Susan was close to Pat White, and stayed there for—I left the next morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did—what was your initial reaction? I mean, your—the human reaction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Ed White was a close friend of mine and we—our families were close. And of course, your reaction is one of grief to begin with. I mean, that’s normal. And then when you see, you know, the devastation that creates in a family, you it’s difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—I know you said you went the next day, but from—again from what I’ve read that—I don’t want to say you were the first person in the spacecraft but—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.0984108415282865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back. Susan [Borman] and I left and drove back to Houston and went to—went over to Ed White’s house, because Susan was close to Pat White, and stayed there for—I left the next morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did—what was your initial reaction? I mean, your—the human reaction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Ed White was a close friend of mine and we—our families were close. And of course, your reaction is one of grief to begin with. I mean, that’s normal. And then when you see, you know, the devastation that creates in a family, you it’s difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—I know you said you went the next day, but from—again from what I’ve read that—I don’t want to say you were the first person in the spacecraft but—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you—some people write it that way, that you were the first person. Maybe what they mean is, were you the first other astronaut to go in or the first person from the investigating team?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.77601204614254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Ed White was a close friend of mine and we—our families were close. And of course, your reaction is one of grief to begin with. I mean, that’s normal. And then when you see, you know, the devastation that creates in a family, you it’s difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—I know you said you went the next day, but from—again from what I’ve read that—I don’t want to say you were the first person in the spacecraft but—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you—some people write it that way, that you were the first person. Maybe what they mean is, were you the first other astronaut to go in or the first person from the investigating team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think what happened was: After they got the bodies out and everything and we organized the committee down there, I was assigned to the group that was to dismantle the spacecraft. So under that portfolio, I was the first one in as we started to monitor—not monitor, but to document where—what the switch positions were. I’d go in and say, “You know, the ECS [environmental control system] is in this position,” and the people would record it. So I was really the first—I think I was probably the first one on the investigating committee that went in. But there had been other people in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And the bodies weren’t in there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.5289022734917115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you—some people write it that way, that you were the first person. Maybe what they mean is, were you the first other astronaut to go in or the first person from the investigating team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think what happened was: After they got the bodies out and everything and we organized the committee down there, I was assigned to the group that was to dismantle the spacecraft. So under that portfolio, I was the first one in as we started to monitor—not monitor, but to document where—what the switch positions were. I’d go in and say, “You know, the ECS [environmental control system] is in this position,” and the people would record it. So I was really the first—I think I was probably the first one on the investigating committee that went in. But there had been other people in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And the bodies weren’t in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or the—but when you—do you remember what it was like when you first went in there? I mean, you were somebody who would be riding in—could have easily been riding in there? I mean, that could’ve been your assignment. What were your thoughts when you first went in there and saw it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.365446970546346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think what happened was: After they got the bodies out and everything and we organized the committee down there, I was assigned to the group that was to dismantle the spacecraft. So under that portfolio, I was the first one in as we started to monitor—not monitor, but to document where—what the switch positions were. I’d go in and say, “You know, the ECS [environmental control system] is in this position,” and the people would record it. So I was really the first—I think I was probably the first one on the investigating committee that went in. But there had been other people in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And the bodies weren’t in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or the—but when you—do you remember what it was like when you first went in there? I mean, you were somebody who would be riding in—could have easily been riding in there? I mean, that could’ve been your assignment. What were your thoughts when you first went in there and saw it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was devastation and it was, you know—it was—your thoughts were, “I—I can’t believe it could happen.” I never—if you’re asking, “Did I reflect some personal?” No, I didn’t do that. Again, I had a job to do and my job one was recording the switches. Then the next thing was, we went through and tried to understand where there might be bad insulation on it. So it was a long, drawn-out process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have a thought like, “Can—we can’t recover from this as an Agency?”"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.294941078384829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or the—but when you—do you remember what it was like when you first went in there? I mean, you were somebody who would be riding in—could have easily been riding in there? I mean, that could’ve been your assignment. What were your thoughts when you first went in there and saw it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was devastation and it was, you know—it was—your thoughts were, “I—I can’t believe it could happen.” I never—if you’re asking, “Did I reflect some personal?” No, I didn’t do that. Again, I had a job to do and my job one was recording the switches. Then the next thing was, we went through and tried to understand where there might be bad insulation on it. So it was a long, drawn-out process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have a thought like, “Can—we can’t recover from this as an Agency?”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never—in one instant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why not?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.327712309316476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was devastation and it was, you know—it was—your thoughts were, “I—I can’t believe it could happen.” I never—if you’re asking, “Did I reflect some personal?” No, I didn’t do that. Again, I had a job to do and my job one was recording the switches. Then the next thing was, we went through and tried to understand where there might be bad insulation on it. So it was a long, drawn-out process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have a thought like, “Can—we can’t recover from this as an Agency?”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never—in one instant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it’s just the inherent optimism that people have that, you know, we stubbed our toes. And you’ve got to remember: Look, I’ve been around quite a few people that made holes in the ground. And that’s it. You press on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How—there was a lot of criticism of NASA and North American during the investigation. A lot. I mean, how much do you think was justified?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.364124788129418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never—in one instant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it’s just the inherent optimism that people have that, you know, we stubbed our toes. And you’ve got to remember: Look, I’ve been around quite a few people that made holes in the ground. And that’s it. You press on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How—there was a lot of criticism of NASA and North American during the investigation. A lot. I mean, how much do you think was justified?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little of it. It was a media frenzy with people who wanted to get their names in the paper. It—you know, we were—if today you gave NASA the mission of going back to the Moon, I bet you they couldn’t do it as fast as they did it back then. This was uncharted territory, and a very complicated machine, with a very difficult mission. And to expect that you weren’t going to have problems was unrealistic.\\n\\n It’s like the nitwit that was Secretary of Transportation (I forgot what his name was) but—we will not—you know, “Our goal: we’ll never have another accident.” You know, well he should say, “We’ll do everything to make certain that we do our best not to have another accident, but you know damn well there’s going to be another accident.” Well, NASA had one. And I got really kind of sick of the second-guessers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long do you think NASA kept in mind the lessons that they had learned from Apollo 1?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.684104676702985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little of it. It was a media frenzy with people who wanted to get their names in the paper. It—you know, we were—if today you gave NASA the mission of going back to the Moon, I bet you they couldn’t do it as fast as they did it back then. This was uncharted territory, and a very complicated machine, with a very difficult mission. And to expect that you weren’t going to have problems was unrealistic.\\n\\n It’s like the nitwit that was Secretary of Transportation (I forgot what his name was) but—we will not—you know, “Our goal: we’ll never have another accident.” You know, well he should say, “We’ll do everything to make certain that we do our best not to have another accident, but you know damn well there’s going to be another accident.” Well, NASA had one. And I got really kind of sick of the second-guessers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long do you think NASA kept in mind the lessons that they had learned from Apollo 1?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no way of knowing because—I know they kept it in mind very well while George Low and the people that were there were there. I have no way of knowing whether that stayed with them or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really can’t comment on NASA management because I left in ’70 and I never looked back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, you’re on the review board and you’re sent out to Downey to kind of lead that spacecraft redefinition team. And you’re also trying to train for your Apollo 8 mission. How did you juggle all that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.58313398724689, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I didn’t—I wasn’t training for the Apollo 8 mission—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My sole job then was: remember, I met Dr. [Robert R.] Gilruth in the hall somewhere and he said, “Look, we’re going to put George Low in charge of the Apollo spacecraft or Project Office, and we’d like you to go out to North American and implement or help to oversee the implementation of the changes that the Program Office in Houston were mandating for the spacecraft.” And so I just said, “Yes, sir,” and went—and then I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like to be out there? I mean, you described your initial perception of the company; and now you’re sent out there to kind of be—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.536815541385433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My sole job then was: remember, I met Dr. [Robert R.] Gilruth in the hall somewhere and he said, “Look, we’re going to put George Low in charge of the Apollo spacecraft or Project Office, and we’d like you to go out to North American and implement or help to oversee the implementation of the changes that the Program Office in Houston were mandating for the spacecraft.” And so I just said, “Yes, sir,” and went—and then I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like to be out there? I mean, you described your initial perception of the company; and now you’re sent out there to kind of be—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a good team: Aaron Cohen, Doug [Douglas R.] Broome, and we had—and Scotty [Scott H. Simpkinson]. We had about four or five people that knew their job, knew their business, and we just worked our fannies off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any stories that stand out from that experience of changes you think you were able to make and—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.304710544920288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a good team: Aaron Cohen, Doug [Douglas R.] Broome, and we had—and Scotty [Scott H. Simpkinson]. We had about four or five people that knew their job, knew their business, and we just worked our fannies off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any stories that stand out from that experience of changes you think you were able to make and—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a lot of the changes that they were proposing weren’t changes at all that wouldn’t have maybe really been effective. Like the change in the oxygen system. But we were able to make an input there. But, you know, George Low was one of the giants of the program, and he ran that Change Board so that things didn’t get by him that were too frivolous or that were—and then I was faced with the problem: Guys would fly out and try to put their own changes in. So we controlled it all pretty well.\\n\\n We had an argument with George [E.] Mueller once about the—we added a lot of weight to the spacecraft. And as a result of that, they were going to have to change the way the parachute de-reefed. And he didn’t want to test the new parachute. But I won that battle, too. See, NASA was really—NASA at that time would listen to people that were on the spot and that were not—that were—that they had confidence in. I was very fortunate to be a part of that team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know why, or have you ever found out why, looking back, that you were selected to be on the Apollo 1 Review Board?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any speculation on your part about why? I mean, there was a lot of astronauts—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.227456161022543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a lot of the changes that they were proposing weren’t changes at all that wouldn’t have maybe really been effective. Like the change in the oxygen system. But we were able to make an input there. But, you know, George Low was one of the giants of the program, and he ran that Change Board so that things didn’t get by him that were too frivolous or that were—and then I was faced with the problem: Guys would fly out and try to put their own changes in. So we controlled it all pretty well.\\n\\n We had an argument with George [E.] Mueller once about the—we added a lot of weight to the spacecraft. And as a result of that, they were going to have to change the way the parachute de-reefed. And he didn’t want to test the new parachute. But I won that battle, too. See, NASA was really—NASA at that time would listen to people that were on the spot and that were not—that were—that they had confidence in. I was very fortunate to be a part of that team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know why, or have you ever found out why, looking back, that you were selected to be on the Apollo 1 Review Board?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any speculation on your part about why? I mean, there was a lot of astronauts—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I’d been working on the spacecraft. Maybe they felt I had some familiarity with the [spacecraft]. I have no idea. Like I said, if Slayton said, “do it” I went and did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe it’s because you were the only one who didn’t play those gotcha games. Who knows?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.391921186447583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I’d been working on the spacecraft. Maybe they felt I had some familiarity with the [spacecraft]. I have no idea. Like I said, if Slayton said, “do it” I went and did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe it’s because you were the only one who didn’t play those gotcha games. Who knows?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who knows?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you view your management style? I mean, in a way that was—in some ways kind of your first taste of managing. You had sub-panels to management. How did—how would you describe your management style?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.324356873830647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who knows?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you view your management style? I mean, in a way that was—in some ways kind of your first taste of managing. You had sub-panels to management. How did—how would you describe your management style?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think that the management that NASA had there (which I think is the appropriate one), you gave people responsibility for doing it, you checked on them, but you did not try to micromanage it. And you were—you know, NASA at that time demanded the best; and if you didn’t cut it, you were gone. And we had the best. At North American, NASA flexed its muscles and the whole hierarchy was gone. Bill [William B.] Bergen came in and Buzz [Bastian] Hello. So North American really became almost a sub [contractor] to NASA after the fire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that played a role in being able to so quickly recover?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.360396526478496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you view your management style? I mean, in a way that was—in some ways kind of your first taste of managing. You had sub-panels to management. How did—how would you describe your management style?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think that the management that NASA had there (which I think is the appropriate one), you gave people responsibility for doing it, you checked on them, but you did not try to micromanage it. And you were—you know, NASA at that time demanded the best; and if you didn’t cut it, you were gone. And we had the best. At North American, NASA flexed its muscles and the whole hierarchy was gone. Bill [William B.] Bergen came in and Buzz [Bastian] Hello. So North American really became almost a sub [contractor] to NASA after the fire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that played a role in being able to so quickly recover?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Just take a look at the difference in recovery time between the Apollo and the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It’s remarkable."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.511551696087217, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think that the management that NASA had there (which I think is the appropriate one), you gave people responsibility for doing it, you checked on them, but you did not try to micromanage it. And you were—you know, NASA at that time demanded the best; and if you didn’t cut it, you were gone. And we had the best. At North American, NASA flexed its muscles and the whole hierarchy was gone. Bill [William B.] Bergen came in and Buzz [Bastian] Hello. So North American really became almost a sub [contractor] to NASA after the fire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that played a role in being able to so quickly recover?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Just take a look at the difference in recovery time between the Apollo and the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It’s remarkable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In fact, did you have a moment where you’d think, “We’re not going to fulfill [President John F.] Kennedy’s goal of doing it before the end of the decade” after the fire?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.457279662319129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Just take a look at the difference in recovery time between the Apollo and the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It’s remarkable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In fact, did you have a moment where you’d think, “We’re not going to fulfill [President John F.] Kennedy’s goal of doing it before the end of the decade” after the fire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I’m an optimist. I never doubted that we’d do it. I never doubted we’d do it. And in that, you know, I wanted to beat Kennedy’s goal—I wanted to meet Kennedy’s goal. But the more important thing to me was beating the Russians. There—this—I took very seriously this Cold War and the idea that we were somehow second-rate to a Communist country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did—in terms of your Apollo 8 training and I guess the backup mission, you know, in case they decided you weren’t going to go orbit the Moon was (I guess) to spend 10 days in orbit."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.508088513687921, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In fact, did you have a moment where you’d think, “We’re not going to fulfill [President John F.] Kennedy’s goal of doing it before the end of the decade” after the fire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I’m an optimist. I never doubted that we’d do it. I never doubted we’d do it. And in that, you know, I wanted to beat Kennedy’s goal—I wanted to meet Kennedy’s goal. But the more important thing to me was beating the Russians. There—this—I took very seriously this Cold War and the idea that we were somehow second-rate to a Communist country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did—in terms of your Apollo 8 training and I guess the backup mission, you know, in case they decided you weren’t going to go orbit the Moon was (I guess) to spend 10 days in orbit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you train for that contingency?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.67565390409769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I’m an optimist. I never doubted that we’d do it. I never doubted we’d do it. And in that, you know, I wanted to beat Kennedy’s goal—I wanted to meet Kennedy’s goal. But the more important thing to me was beating the Russians. There—this—I took very seriously this Cold War and the idea that we were somehow second-rate to a Communist country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did—in terms of your Apollo 8 training and I guess the backup mission, you know, in case they decided you weren’t going to go orbit the Moon was (I guess) to spend 10 days in orbit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you train for that contingency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just refused to acknowledge it existed?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.972948782330766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you train for that contingency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just refused to acknowledge it existed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[laughs] We figured we’d figure out what to do if it came about!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they make you train? Or did you just—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 16.015986151025636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[laughs] We figured we’d figure out what to do if it came about!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they make you train? Or did you just—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn’t—they—I—look we—I really think that that would’ve been wired or called up to us telling us what to do. We didn’t train for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts about being the first flight on a Saturn V?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.906651278917371, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn’t—they—I—look we—I really think that that would’ve been wired or called up to us telling us what to do. We didn’t train for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts about being the first flight on a Saturn V?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had worked with the Huntsville people a lot. And I was confident that when [Wernher] von Braun told me he’d fix the Saturn V I, you know—I sure figured he’d fix the Saturn V. They—they had some pogo problems before. But I was involved with a guy that worked at Huntsville by the name of Jack Keutner in the crew safety committee there, where we put in the crew safety automatic ejection or automatic abort system. So I knew it pretty well. And I thought it was a reasonable design.\\n\\n We started off with—there were certain parts of the launch where if you had a failure, crew reaction time wasn’t enough to abort. So we said, “Okay, we’ll put in a gyroscope,” for instance if you get a—“Well, then you get a gyroscope failure,” then you’re gone with—“Well, we’ll put in two gyroscopes.” Okay, you put in two gyroscopes; “Which one are you going to believe?” So we ended up with three. And we voted it: “If two out of three said go, you went.” And that was a development of many—over many weeks of the people at Huntsville. And it was, you know—I was confident in the Saturn V.\\n\\n You know, I sound like a, you know, “People, if you believe me, I’ll sell you the Brooklyn Bridge.” But I understood. I had been with these people. And I had confidence that they would do their job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—you know, you’re going to go do something that’s, you know, nobody’s ridden on a Saturn V before. How do you prepare your family for that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.845886528007366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t do a good job of it, but part of the reason that I didn’t do a good job is that: my wife is a wonderful, wonderful person who was a complete support system. When we got married in the ’50s, it was like a team. She had her job and I had my job. And one of her jobs was to (I guess she had assumed it)—was to not in any way show any kind of fear or any kind of trepidation over what I was doing.\\n\\n And so I never had the—I never really understood her concern. Particularly after the fire, because she and Pat White were close and she saw how Pat White was devastated. And, look, it’s as I said: it wasn’t as if she hadn’t consoled widows before, because she had. And not a lot—not too long before we come to NASA. But in any event, I misread that; and so I just assumed that she was as strong—stronger than she really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you manage to pick—to be lucky enough (speaking of your wife) to pick July 20th, Moon landing day, as not only your wedding anniversary but the birth of one of your children?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. I don’t understand that. I—and as a matter of fact, you’re the first person that’s ever pointed that out to me. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to have thought about it, when we landed on the Moon on July 20th, that—the coincidence—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t even—I had forgotten it was July 20th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a premonition. So it’s the day before your launch on Apollo 8. And I had read that Charles Lindbergh actually came to visit you all in the crew quarters. What did you all—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.828762808897073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. I don’t understand that. I—and as a matter of fact, you’re the first person that’s ever pointed that out to me. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to have thought about it, when we landed on the Moon on July 20th, that—the coincidence—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t even—I had forgotten it was July 20th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a premonition. So it’s the day before your launch on Apollo 8. And I had read that Charles Lindbergh actually came to visit you all in the crew quarters. What did you all—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Charles Lindbergh and Anne Lindbergh came and had lunch with us and—the day before the launch; and we talked and talked and talked, and they stayed and stayed and stayed. And we eventually got the conversation around to his flight. It was a delightful afternoon. It really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he a hero of yours?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.689830628267992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Charles Lindbergh and Anne Lindbergh came and had lunch with us and—the day before the launch; and we talked and talked and talked, and they stayed and stayed and stayed. And we eventually got the conversation around to his flight. It was a delightful afternoon. It really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he a hero of yours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I—my family was very, very pro-British and very, very pro-let’s go help the British. And of course, Lindbergh was an America First’er. And so Lindbergh was not a popular name in our house when I was a child. On the other hand, I admired his (as I grew into the Air Force) what he had done, and I liked him a lot. He was a—he was intellectually very, very curious and very, very intent—even when he was asking about the Apollo 8 flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it’s—now it’s launch day, and they actually count down, and they don’t delay. You’re really—I mean, when did you have this sense, sitting up there, that this is really going to happen and you’re really going to go?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.433145142519991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I—my family was very, very pro-British and very, very pro-let’s go help the British. And of course, Lindbergh was an America First’er. And so Lindbergh was not a popular name in our house when I was a child. On the other hand, I admired his (as I grew into the Air Force) what he had done, and I liked him a lot. He was a—he was intellectually very, very curious and very, very intent—even when he was asking about the Apollo 8 flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it’s—now it’s launch day, and they actually count down, and they don’t delay. You’re really—I mean, when did you have this sense, sitting up there, that this is really going to happen and you’re really going to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the big—greatest concern was that it wouldn’t happen. I had two great concerns: I think the worst fear that I had was that somehow the crew would foul up, and that was the one thing that I did not want to happen. I want—you know, I had a great team in Bill [William A.] Anders and Lovell, and I wanted to make certain that we did and we could handle whatever was handed our way. The second thing was, I didn’t want—really want the mission to get fouled up because we really weren’t certain that the Russians weren’t breathing down our backs. So I wanted to go on time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like to lift off on that? I mean, there’s never been another rocket like the Saturn V."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2384507932345565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the big—greatest concern was that it wouldn’t happen. I had two great concerns: I think the worst fear that I had was that somehow the crew would foul up, and that was the one thing that I did not want to happen. I want—you know, I had a great team in Bill [William A.] Anders and Lovell, and I wanted to make certain that we did and we could handle whatever was handed our way. The second thing was, I didn’t want—really want the mission to get fouled up because we really weren’t certain that the Russians weren’t breathing down our backs. So I wanted to go on time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like to lift off on that? I mean, there’s never been another rocket like the Saturn V."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the Saturn V was a unique vehicle. And of course, it was powerful and noisy and vibrated, and the stagings were really kind of violent. But when you got on the third stage, the S-IVB, it was smooth and quiet and was just like the upper stage of the Gemini. Actually, it was less demanding than Gemini from a g standpoint, because it didn’t reach the high-g’s. It burned, I think, 11 minutes or something like that. It didn’t get to the high-g’s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No fear at liftoff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I on’t think there was any fear. The main fear, as I said, was that somehow we’d screw up. I remember I had my hand on the abort handle; and all I’d [have] had to do was like that and it—we’d have been gone on. And so I was worried that the vibration might—and yet I didn’t want to take my hand off there, so that kind of concern was [it]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the human element of things—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.709389770260619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the Saturn V was a unique vehicle. And of course, it was powerful and noisy and vibrated, and the stagings were really kind of violent. But when you got on the third stage, the S-IVB, it was smooth and quiet and was just like the upper stage of the Gemini. Actually, it was less demanding than Gemini from a g standpoint, because it didn’t reach the high-g’s. It burned, I think, 11 minutes or something like that. It didn’t get to the high-g’s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No fear at liftoff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I on’t think there was any fear. The main fear, as I said, was that somehow we’d screw up. I remember I had my hand on the abort handle; and all I’d [have] had to do was like that and it—we’d have been gone on. And so I was worried that the vibration might—and yet I didn’t want to take my hand off there, so that kind of concern was [it]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the human element of things—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’m not saying that, you know, it wasn’t exciting and that there wasn’t a lot of anticipation of what was going on. But Lovell and I had been there before. It wasn’t that bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—you know, you—there’s the little things, like, the closeout crew does before launch. And one of the little stories (I know this was in the book A Man On the Moon) was that they gave you a tiny stocking hanging from a paper Christmas tree. Do you know why that was the gift they gave you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.232655300289576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I on’t think there was any fear. The main fear, as I said, was that somehow we’d screw up. I remember I had my hand on the abort handle; and all I’d [have] had to do was like that and it—we’d have been gone on. And so I was worried that the vibration might—and yet I didn’t want to take my hand off there, so that kind of concern was [it]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the human element of things—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’m not saying that, you know, it wasn’t exciting and that there wasn’t a lot of anticipation of what was going on. But Lovell and I had been there before. It wasn’t that bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—you know, you—there’s the little things, like, the closeout crew does before launch. And one of the little stories (I know this was in the book A Man On the Moon) was that they gave you a tiny stocking hanging from a paper Christmas tree. Do you know why that was the gift they gave you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t even remember that. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had given Jim Lovell a clean, white handkerchief."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.814061444766195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’m not saying that, you know, it wasn’t exciting and that there wasn’t a lot of anticipation of what was going on. But Lovell and I had been there before. It wasn’t that bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—you know, you—there’s the little things, like, the closeout crew does before launch. And one of the little stories (I know this was in the book A Man On the Moon) was that they gave you a tiny stocking hanging from a paper Christmas tree. Do you know why that was the gift they gave you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t even remember that. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had given Jim Lovell a clean, white handkerchief."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where was that? Where did they do this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It—on launch morning, as they’re suiting you up."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.460068271962439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t even remember that. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had given Jim Lovell a clean, white handkerchief."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where was that? Where did they do this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It—on launch morning, as they’re suiting you up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have—Guenter [Wendt] would always—."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.177853635513821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where was that? Where did they do this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It—on launch morning, as they’re suiting you up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have—Guenter [Wendt] would always—."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought you meant at the pad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. You know how Guenter at the pad would give you little gifts."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.97539292834869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have—Guenter [Wendt] would always—."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought you meant at the pad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. You know how Guenter at the pad would give you little gifts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. To be honest with you—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t remember."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.86154769816521, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought you meant at the pad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. You know how Guenter at the pad would give you little gifts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. To be honest with you—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t remember."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—I didn’t focus on that in that light."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, obviously it was right before Christmas—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.94018234341384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—I didn’t focus on that in that light."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, obviously it was right before Christmas—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—but—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "— I don’t know. What were your feelings when you knew that you were going to have to go around to the dark side of the Moon? It’s hard for us to fathom now that that was even, like, such a big deal, that you don’t know. You know, can you come back around? And, but—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.489091492682044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—but—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "— I don’t know. What were your feelings when you knew that you were going to have to go around to the dark side of the Moon? It’s hard for us to fathom now that that was even, like, such a big deal, that you don’t know. You know, can you come back around? And, but—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s hard for us to fathom now. But the thing that’s interesting about that mission was that, I don’t know, maybe half a dozen of us sat in Chris Kraft’s office one afternoon and we went over the flight plan, to try to understand what would we do on the—on—when we got to the—or on the whole flight. And I’ve always thought, again, it was an example of NASA’s leadership with Kraft and their management style that we were able to hammer out, in one afternoon, the basic tenets of the mission.\\n\\n You know, the Tracking people wanted us to stay up there a month. I didn’t want to stay more than one—it was a give-and-take, and Kraft called the shots. So we ended up going around 10 times, and I never really thought about, you know, going around behind—you’d lose radio contact; but that’s about all.\\n\\n It was—actually, the far side was lit, because the Sun was over there. And it was a—I remember that, in order to go 10 revolutions around the Moon, we had to launch at a certain time; but the recovery would then be before sunrise. And the Recovery people were concerned about that. But all this was thoroughly discussed, and then Kraft made the decision. It wasn’t a committee; it wasn’t a—you know, it was one man who had the knowledge to fly like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you know, you’ve kind of been portrayed in some of the things I’ve read as “Let’s do the mission and not one thing more.”"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.529617959783324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And—why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because—well, I—some idiot had the idea that on the way to the Moon we’d do an EVA. Naw. You know, I guess I shouldn’t call him “an idiot.” He was just stupid to—you know, to put a—what do you want to do? What’s the main objective? The main objective was to go to the Moon, do enough orbits so that they could do the tracking, be the pathfinders for Apollo 11, and get your ass home. Why complicate it with a bunch of other stuff?\\n\\n You had to decide: What is the primary objective? And then forget it! I was—I couldn’t believe it when people proposed that we open that damn hatch so you risk (or not risk) but you subject the main mission to the possibility of failure with some of these trivial things on the side. And I just wouldn’t buy that.\\n\\n Now maybe it’s the—maybe it’s the thing—maybe it’s the military background, you know. Because you always say, “Okay, what’s the main objective? Let’s make sure the main objective gets done, and put all your resources into your main push. And don’t forget about the rest.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what your feelings were when you all first dropped out of that radio contact? And did you have any sense of the tension on the ground as they’re waiting to pick you back up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at that point. I think our—the time of greatest tension in the spacecraft was when we fired the rocket to slow us up, and when we fired the rockets to get us out of there. That was the time of—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To slow up, to go into Moon orbit."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.366242177537027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because—well, I—some idiot had the idea that on the way to the Moon we’d do an EVA. Naw. You know, I guess I shouldn’t call him “an idiot.” He was just stupid to—you know, to put a—what do you want to do? What’s the main objective? The main objective was to go to the Moon, do enough orbits so that they could do the tracking, be the pathfinders for Apollo 11, and get your ass home. Why complicate it with a bunch of other stuff?\\n\\n You had to decide: What is the primary objective? And then forget it! I was—I couldn’t believe it when people proposed that we open that damn hatch so you risk (or not risk) but you subject the main mission to the possibility of failure with some of these trivial things on the side. And I just wouldn’t buy that.\\n\\n Now maybe it’s the—maybe it’s the thing—maybe it’s the military background, you know. Because you always say, “Okay, what’s the main objective? Let’s make sure the main objective gets done, and put all your resources into your main push. And don’t forget about the rest.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what your feelings were when you all first dropped out of that radio contact? And did you have any sense of the tension on the ground as they’re waiting to pick you back up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at that point. I think our—the time of greatest tension in the spacecraft was when we fired the rocket to slow us up, and when we fired the rockets to get us out of there. That was the time of—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To slow up, to go into Moon orbit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Into lunar orbit, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you know that—didn’t you actually, like, turn it off, even though the computer would have shut it off? You shut it off yourself to be safe?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.295824641707807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at that point. I think our—the time of greatest tension in the spacecraft was when we fired the rocket to slow us up, and when we fired the rockets to get us out of there. That was the time of—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To slow up, to go into Moon orbit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Into lunar orbit, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you know that—didn’t you actually, like, turn it off, even though the computer would have shut it off? You shut it off yourself to be safe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lovell, I think we—he had a—we back up the computer—we backed up the computer on that. And also on starting we did, too. But, the—we really didn’t know where we were from the standpoint of, we knew where—from the standpoint of how high we were in the lunar orbit. Except we had a—one of the timeline things in the flight plan that would give you a pretty good idea that you were on course is when you lost radio communication. And we lost it right at the time we were supposed to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got home and somebody sent you a telegram and—do you—that said, you know, “Thank you for saving 1968,” did you—was it a telegram sent to you that said that? What were—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.328694046342006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Into lunar orbit, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you know that—didn’t you actually, like, turn it off, even though the computer would have shut it off? You shut it off yourself to be safe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lovell, I think we—he had a—we back up the computer—we backed up the computer on that. And also on starting we did, too. But, the—we really didn’t know where we were from the standpoint of, we knew where—from the standpoint of how high we were in the lunar orbit. Except we had a—one of the timeline things in the flight plan that would give you a pretty good idea that you were on course is when you lost radio communication. And we lost it right at the time we were supposed to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got home and somebody sent you a telegram and—do you—that said, you know, “Thank you for saving 1968,” did you—was it a telegram sent to you that said that? What were—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the crew of Apollo 8."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the crew. I mean, did you know what they meant right away? And what were—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.365215607046673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lovell, I think we—he had a—we back up the computer—we backed up the computer on that. And also on starting we did, too. But, the—we really didn’t know where we were from the standpoint of, we knew where—from the standpoint of how high we were in the lunar orbit. Except we had a—one of the timeline things in the flight plan that would give you a pretty good idea that you were on course is when you lost radio communication. And we lost it right at the time we were supposed to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got home and somebody sent you a telegram and—do you—that said, you know, “Thank you for saving 1968,” did you—was it a telegram sent to you that said that? What were—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the crew of Apollo 8."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the crew. I mean, did you know what they meant right away? And what were—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, ’68 was a rotten year. [laughs] So you’re darn right I knew what they meant! Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you—did it make you proud? How did that make you feel to get that telegram?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.516906230051859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the crew of Apollo 8."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the crew. I mean, did you know what they meant right away? And what were—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, ’68 was a rotten year. [laughs] So you’re darn right I knew what they meant! Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you—did it make you proud? How did that make you feel to get that telegram?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was glad because, in a way it sort of endorsed what we had done. You know, there were still naysayers about spending the money on the Moon and all that whole lunar project, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—you didn’t want to bring the television camera along."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.7965624778354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, ’68 was a rotten year. [laughs] So you’re darn right I knew what they meant! Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you—did it make you proud? How did that make you feel to get that telegram?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was glad because, in a way it sort of endorsed what we had done. You know, there were still naysayers about spending the money on the Moon and all that whole lunar project, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—you didn’t want to bring the television camera along."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t want to bring a television camera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that’s true."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.218402753150444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was glad because, in a way it sort of endorsed what we had done. You know, there were still naysayers about spending the money on the Moon and all that whole lunar project, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—you didn’t want to bring the television camera along."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t want to bring a television camera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that’s true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t want to bring it on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.79822528127827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t want to bring a television camera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that’s true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t want to bring it on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You wound up bringing it on."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.553583645864745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t want to bring it on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You wound up bringing it on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was dumb in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you wound up bringing it along and you do the broadcast that, to this day, I still remember watching—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 19.503981828738606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You wound up bringing it on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was dumb in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you wound up bringing it along and you do the broadcast that, to this day, I still remember watching—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—as a child. And it gives me chills right now thinking about it. How did you come up with reading from Genesis and—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.782202031931785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was dumb in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you wound up bringing it along and you do the broadcast that, to this day, I still remember watching—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—as a child. And it gives me chills right now thinking about it. How did you come up with reading from Genesis and—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s another example of the wonderful country we live in. Because Julian Sheer, who was the head of public information for NASA in Washington, called me one day. He said, “You’re going to have the largest audience that’s ever listened to or seen a television picture of a human on Christmas Eve; and you’ve got” (I don’t know) “5 or 6 minutes.” And I said, “Well, that’s great, Julian. What are we doing?” He said, “Do whatever’s appropriate.” That’s the only instructions. But—and that’s the exact word, “Do whatever’s appropriate.” Whatever you feel is appropriate.\\n\\n And to be honest with you, we were so involved in the mission (and this was a peripheral one), so I just kind of farmed that out to a friend of mine, Si [Simon] Bourgin, and (from Washington)—and he came back—well, I guess he consulted with some of his friends and came back with the idea of reading from Genesis. And I discussed it with Bill and Jim, and we had it typed on the flight plan; and that’s—I didn’t give it anymore thought than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the line at the end, you know, “on the good Earth.”"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.091335591035316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—as a child. And it gives me chills right now thinking about it. How did you come up with reading from Genesis and—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s another example of the wonderful country we live in. Because Julian Sheer, who was the head of public information for NASA in Washington, called me one day. He said, “You’re going to have the largest audience that’s ever listened to or seen a television picture of a human on Christmas Eve; and you’ve got” (I don’t know) “5 or 6 minutes.” And I said, “Well, that’s great, Julian. What are we doing?” He said, “Do whatever’s appropriate.” That’s the only instructions. But—and that’s the exact word, “Do whatever’s appropriate.” Whatever you feel is appropriate.\\n\\n And to be honest with you, we were so involved in the mission (and this was a peripheral one), so I just kind of farmed that out to a friend of mine, Si [Simon] Bourgin, and (from Washington)—and he came back—well, I guess he consulted with some of his friends and came back with the idea of reading from Genesis. And I discussed it with Bill and Jim, and we had it typed on the flight plan; and that’s—I didn’t give it anymore thought than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the line at the end, you know, “on the good Earth.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think—On the good Earth. I think that Sy—I think that Sy had printed that, too. Had sent it back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know when you were reading it, the effect—I mean, did it have that effect on you all up there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.16214270498187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think—On the good Earth. I think that Sy—I think that Sy had printed that, too. Had sent it back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know when you were reading it, the effect—I mean, did it have that effect on you all up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Looking back at the Earth on Christmas Eve had a great effect, I think, on all three of us. I can only speak for myself. But it had for me. Because of the wonderment of it and the fact that the Earth looked so lonely in the universe. It’s the only thing with color. All of our emotions were focused back there with our families as well. So that was the most emotional part of the flight for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of that a little bit, I get the sense from—(again from reading some of the recollections, especially Bill Anders’ recollections), you know. He would’ve liked to look out the window a lot more; and you were like his taskmaster in a way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he had a job to do. And again it gets back to, “Let’s do the mission.” And you know, we weren’t there simply as observers. We had a lot of job—Bill had a lot of jobs, and he did them very well. And, you know, I think he felt, “Well, you know, I don’t want to go to sleep here. We’re—” But by the same token, I wanted everybody alert so that we ended up getting home and that nobody fouled up their part of the procedures to get us home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you literally made him take a nap at one point, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.957936338868745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Looking back at the Earth on Christmas Eve had a great effect, I think, on all three of us. I can only speak for myself. But it had for me. Because of the wonderment of it and the fact that the Earth looked so lonely in the universe. It’s the only thing with color. All of our emotions were focused back there with our families as well. So that was the most emotional part of the flight for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of that a little bit, I get the sense from—(again from reading some of the recollections, especially Bill Anders’ recollections), you know. He would’ve liked to look out the window a lot more; and you were like his taskmaster in a way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he had a job to do. And again it gets back to, “Let’s do the mission.” And you know, we weren’t there simply as observers. We had a lot of job—Bill had a lot of jobs, and he did them very well. And, you know, I think he felt, “Well, you know, I don’t want to go to sleep here. We’re—” But by the same token, I wanted everybody alert so that we ended up getting home and that nobody fouled up their part of the procedures to get us home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you literally made him take a nap at one point, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sent him—yeah. We—I sent he and Jim underneath to get—they were making mistakes. They were getting tired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other recollections from Apollo 8 that you didn’t necessarily include in your book? Stories you might’ve left out that [pauses]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.619929265409716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he had a job to do. And again it gets back to, “Let’s do the mission.” And you know, we weren’t there simply as observers. We had a lot of job—Bill had a lot of jobs, and he did them very well. And, you know, I think he felt, “Well, you know, I don’t want to go to sleep here. We’re—” But by the same token, I wanted everybody alert so that we ended up getting home and that nobody fouled up their part of the procedures to get us home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you literally made him take a nap at one point, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sent him—yeah. We—I sent he and Jim underneath to get—they were making mistakes. They were getting tired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other recollections from Apollo 8 that you didn’t necessarily include in your book? Stories you might’ve left out that [pauses]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think I may have put in the book, but one of the other things that always struck me was: when we were going over to—when I was going over to testify before Congress on the results of the investigation, I rode over with Mr. [James E.] Webb (Jim Webb), who was the Administrator of NASA. And I never will forget, he said, “Look, I don’t want you to do anything to try to protect me or to try to protect NASA. The American people have a right to know exactly the unvarnished truth, and you tell them.” That impressed me. I was going to do it anyway but here was the man—you know, I just don’t think that happens today. I can’t imagine the President today telling me to say the unvarnished truth to anything, when he’s such a liar himself!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably so. When your friend Jim Lovell went on to command Apollo 13 and all the problems happened, did you reflect back on your mission at all? Or—you said you left and never looked back. But he was a friend of yours obviously—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 18.46658807267746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sent him—yeah. We—I sent he and Jim underneath to get—they were making mistakes. They were getting tired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other recollections from Apollo 8 that you didn’t necessarily include in your book? Stories you might’ve left out that [pauses]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think I may have put in the book, but one of the other things that always struck me was: when we were going over to—when I was going over to testify before Congress on the results of the investigation, I rode over with Mr. [James E.] Webb (Jim Webb), who was the Administrator of NASA. And I never will forget, he said, “Look, I don’t want you to do anything to try to protect me or to try to protect NASA. The American people have a right to know exactly the unvarnished truth, and you tell them.” That impressed me. I was going to do it anyway but here was the man—you know, I just don’t think that happens today. I can’t imagine the President today telling me to say the unvarnished truth to anything, when he’s such a liar himself!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably so. When your friend Jim Lovell went on to command Apollo 13 and all the problems happened, did you reflect back on your mission at all? Or—you said you left and never looked back. But he was a friend of yours obviously—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A good friend. Still is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—still is. Did it make you reflect on your mission and what if that had happened to—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.75938007225989, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I had a job then because the—no, that was Apollo 11. No, I—on Apollo 13, I was just a bystander. No, I did have a job in Apollo 13. Excuse me. I had—after Apollo 8, I had been assigned to the White House as liaison to prepare for Apollo 11. And so I got to know Mr. [President Richard M.] Nixon pretty well and the people up there.\\n\\n And on Apollo 13, Bob Gilruth called me and he said, “Look, we just got the word that the Vice President, [Spiro T.] Agnew, is coming down here.” He said, “That’s the last thing we need. We’ve got a problem. We don’t want all the press. We don’t want—” You know, Agnew was head of the [Space Task Group]. He said, “You’ve been up in the White House. Can’t you do anything? Please see if you can put him to put that off.” So I called Bob (oh, I’ve forgotten his name)—Bob—(What was Nixon’s right-hand man? the hatchet man?)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Halderman?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Halderman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I called Bob Halderman. Thank you. And I explained the situation to him, and they stopped Agnew from taking off and sent him somewhere else. So I performed on Apollo 13. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still with the Agency?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.6215334136221, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Halderman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I called Bob Halderman. Thank you. And I explained the situation to him, and they stopped Agnew from taking off and sent him somewhere else. So I performed on Apollo 13. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still with the Agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you were still with the Agency. Did it—did you reflect on what it would be like to be the astronaut in that experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.579481570691222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I called Bob Halderman. Thank you. And I explained the situation to him, and they stopped Agnew from taking off and sent him somewhere else. So I performed on Apollo 13. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still with the Agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you were still with the Agency. Did it—did you reflect on what it would be like to be the astronaut in that experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Oh I figured that, again, Lovell knew that thing. I had confidence in him, confidence in the people in the ground. If they could get them back, they’d get back. If they couldn’t, they’d be dead. It was as simple as that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, Apollo 8 in many ways was a real gamble and it really took a lot of guts on the part of the team who said, “We’re going to go do this. And we’re going to try to get it done.” And many people feel that we really wouldn’t have made it to the Moon without doing that, that in some ways it was, like, the defining mission that made Apollo 11 possible. Did you have that sense at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.297335117651609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I—it wasn’t that I didn’t want to. But when you look at, again, who’s going to do the mission, the—I had never even been in the lunar simulator. I had—when all this was going on, I had been on that committee and then I’d been out at North American. I knew the—I think I knew the Apollo spacecraft as well as any other astronaut. I didn’t know a damn thing about the LM. And I’m not—I don’t recall Slayton ever discussing it with me. But I would’ve been flattered if he had. But I would’ve thought that there [would’ve] been better people, better prepared to do that—to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how did, then—you say you didn’t have a direct discussion about putting you in that role. But was it just the crew rotation that would have naturally put you in that role?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The crew—No. The crew rotation, which was he had established and which he followed, put the backup crew in that role. [Neil A.] Armstrong was on that flight. And nobody knew for certain Apollo 11 was going to be the lunar lander. What if 9 would’ve fouled up? Or what if 10 would’ve fouled up?\\n\\n Deke established a rotation system. I was the backup on IV in Gemini, and I flew on VII. And Neil was the backup on 8 and he flew on 11."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, there’s always speculation about how did Neil Armstrong get picked to be—and you could say it was a quirk of fate, you know. And then some people say, “Well, he happened to be the only civilian astronaut at the time—”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s nonsense. I think that Slayton looked at us all. I don’t think he knew whether we were military or civilians. I think Neil was picked because he was a competent guy, and he had a good team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s a quiet astronaut."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.305351997100751, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s nonsense. I think that Slayton looked at us all. I don’t think he knew whether we were military or civilians. I think Neil was picked because he was a competent guy, and he had a good team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s a quiet astronaut."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s an introvert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "An introvert. He’s much more intellectually curious than I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised at terms of—you know, when we landed on the Moon. Where were you when we landed on the Moon?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.894835552334168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s an introvert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "An introvert. He’s much more intellectually curious than I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised at terms of—you know, when we landed on the Moon. Where were you when we landed on the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was with Mr. Nixon in the White House."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were? And do you remember what your recollections were? And what the President thought?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.327595058149075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "An introvert. He’s much more intellectually curious than I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised at terms of—you know, when we landed on the Moon. Where were you when we landed on the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was with Mr. Nixon in the White House."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were? And do you remember what your recollections were? And what the President thought?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a great euphoria. You know, he didn’t have else much—he was still getting battered over Vietnam and everything else was—this was before Watergate. But nevertheless, this was a very bright and shining plus for the American people. It was a happy time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised at—I mean, the reaction when they came home? I mean, it was—you know, they were heroes. And for many people, though, that’s probably the last astronauts they could name. You know, that after that—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.6973278423878617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was with Mr. Nixon in the White House."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were? And do you remember what your recollections were? And what the President thought?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a great euphoria. You know, he didn’t have else much—he was still getting battered over Vietnam and everything else was—this was before Watergate. But nevertheless, this was a very bright and shining plus for the American people. It was a happy time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised at—I mean, the reaction when they came home? I mean, it was—you know, they were heroes. And for many people, though, that’s probably the last astronauts they could name. You know, that after that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, [John H.] Glenn [Jr.]. I think they all could name Glenn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, everybody can."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.997030935986513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a great euphoria. You know, he didn’t have else much—he was still getting battered over Vietnam and everything else was—this was before Watergate. But nevertheless, this was a very bright and shining plus for the American people. It was a happy time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised at—I mean, the reaction when they came home? I mean, it was—you know, they were heroes. And for many people, though, that’s probably the last astronauts they could name. You know, that after that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, [John H.] Glenn [Jr.]. I think they all could name Glenn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, everybody can."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And [Alan B.] Shepard [Jr.] I guess, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But—because he hit a golf ball on the Moon? Do you think maybe that’s why—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3300343733183473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, [John H.] Glenn [Jr.]. I think they all could name Glenn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, everybody can."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And [Alan B.] Shepard [Jr.] I guess, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But—because he hit a golf ball on the Moon? Do you think maybe that’s why—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because—I hope it was because he was the first man in space—American in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I would hope so, too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.111153547306602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because—I hope it was because he was the first man in space—American in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I would hope so, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—the point is, that you had brought up earlier, about how after we went to the Moon it was all over for you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.567948385896224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—the point is, that you had brought up earlier, about how after we went to the Moon it was all over for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in many ways, it was for the American public. I remember Chris Kraft telling me once that he knew it was all over when he looked at his little monitor in Mission Control and we were driving on the Moon for the first time. And he looked over at the networks, and they were all still showing soap operas."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.07549820655136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—the point is, that you had brought up earlier, about how after we went to the Moon it was all over for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in many ways, it was for the American public. I remember Chris Kraft telling me once that he knew it was all over when he looked at his little monitor in Mission Control and we were driving on the Moon for the first time. And he looked over at the networks, and they were all still showing soap operas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he knew it was over."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.639442451723733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in many ways, it was for the American public. I remember Chris Kraft telling me once that he knew it was all over when he looked at his little monitor in Mission Control and we were driving on the Moon for the first time. And he looked over at the networks, and they were all still showing soap operas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he knew it was over."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, as it wound down so quickly after that, and no one’s been back since, you know, what were your thoughts as the program closed out completely? And I know you weren’t even with NASA anymore when it happened."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.266047168581926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he knew it was over."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, as it wound down so quickly after that, and no one’s been back since, you know, what were your thoughts as the program closed out completely? And I know you weren’t even with NASA anymore when it happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think that NASA remains a very important—a very important entity in our—in the country’s future. And I think it’s important, extremely important that we have this continually grasping, grasping, looking for things. I lose it when we talked about colonizing the Moon and all the other baloney that you read about. We’re going to mine—once we’re going to mine oxygen and—I just don’t have that belief. I—maybe I’m too practical. I don’t think that’s ever going to happen.\\n\\n So, I was with NASA with the objective of being part of the team that beat the Russians to the Moon. We did that. And that, you know, I thought the other flights were just as dangerous, just as—and probably much more adventurous and brought back much more knowledge of the Moon. I just don’t happen to be interested in that. I’m not going to lie to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think we’ll go back to the Moon?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5178301873132503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, as it wound down so quickly after that, and no one’s been back since, you know, what were your thoughts as the program closed out completely? And I know you weren’t even with NASA anymore when it happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think that NASA remains a very important—a very important entity in our—in the country’s future. And I think it’s important, extremely important that we have this continually grasping, grasping, looking for things. I lose it when we talked about colonizing the Moon and all the other baloney that you read about. We’re going to mine—once we’re going to mine oxygen and—I just don’t have that belief. I—maybe I’m too practical. I don’t think that’s ever going to happen.\\n\\n So, I was with NASA with the objective of being part of the team that beat the Russians to the Moon. We did that. And that, you know, I thought the other flights were just as dangerous, just as—and probably much more adventurous and brought back much more knowledge of the Moon. I just don’t happen to be interested in that. I’m not going to lie to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think we’ll go back to the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m certain we’ll go back to the Moon someday. And I suspect someday there’ll be a permanent scientific base on the Moon like there is at South America—South—the South Pole, Antarctica. But I have a hard time understanding how we’re going to have apartments on the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How are we for tape?\\n\\n VOICE OFF CAMERA: We’re doing fine.\n\nOkay.\\n\\n Voice off camera: Would you like some more water?\n\nI just want to stop at a good place."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7975890970147224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think that NASA remains a very important—a very important entity in our—in the country’s future. And I think it’s important, extremely important that we have this continually grasping, grasping, looking for things. I lose it when we talked about colonizing the Moon and all the other baloney that you read about. We’re going to mine—once we’re going to mine oxygen and—I just don’t have that belief. I—maybe I’m too practical. I don’t think that’s ever going to happen.\\n\\n So, I was with NASA with the objective of being part of the team that beat the Russians to the Moon. We did that. And that, you know, I thought the other flights were just as dangerous, just as—and probably much more adventurous and brought back much more knowledge of the Moon. I just don’t happen to be interested in that. I’m not going to lie to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think we’ll go back to the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m certain we’ll go back to the Moon someday. And I suspect someday there’ll be a permanent scientific base on the Moon like there is at South America—South—the South Pole, Antarctica. But I have a hard time understanding how we’re going to have apartments on the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How are we for tape?\\n\\n VOICE OFF CAMERA: We’re doing fine.\n\nOkay.\\n\\n Voice off camera: Would you like some more water?\n\nI just want to stop at a good place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m fine.\\n\\n [Break]\\n\\n VOICE OFF CAMERA: All right. Recording again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Let’s talk about the Apollo Program closing out and making the decision. Did you really make the decision to leave before you even did Apollo 8?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4538137000181752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m fine.\\n\\n [Break]\\n\\n VOICE OFF CAMERA: All right. Recording again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Let’s talk about the Apollo Program closing out and making the decision. Did you really make the decision to leave before you even did Apollo 8?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I said: I thought that I had carried my end of the bargain. I’d done—contributed as much as I possibly could. I wasn’t a pro on the LM. It would have taken me longer to learn it. And like I said: I would not have gone to the Moon after the first one. To me, it wasn’t worth it. It wasn’t worth assuming the risks because I wasn’t inclined to go pick up rocks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A few little things from your missions. I don’t know if this is safe to say, but I know that you had space adaptation sickness on Apollo 8. Right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8375707777979726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I said: I thought that I had carried my end of the bargain. I’d done—contributed as much as I possibly could. I wasn’t a pro on the LM. It would have taken me longer to learn it. And like I said: I would not have gone to the Moon after the first one. To me, it wasn’t worth it. It wasn’t worth assuming the risks because I wasn’t inclined to go pick up rocks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A few little things from your missions. I don’t know if this is safe to say, but I know that you had space adaptation sickness on Apollo 8. Right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—Not on Gemini. Or did you have it on Gemini?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.263967530886636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I said: I thought that I had carried my end of the bargain. I’d done—contributed as much as I possibly could. I wasn’t a pro on the LM. It would have taken me longer to learn it. And like I said: I would not have gone to the Moon after the first one. To me, it wasn’t worth it. It wasn’t worth assuming the risks because I wasn’t inclined to go pick up rocks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A few little things from your missions. I don’t know if this is safe to say, but I know that you had space adaptation sickness on Apollo 8. Right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—Not on Gemini. Or did you have it on Gemini?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we never had a thing on Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But on Apollo 8. I mean, it’s safe to say that—I guess, were you the first person to get sick in space?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.737741700985151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—Not on Gemini. Or did you have it on Gemini?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we never had a thing on Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But on Apollo 8. I mean, it’s safe to say that—I guess, were you the first person to get sick in space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I don’t know whether I was or not. But—and at the time I didn’t know it was motion sickness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you thought it might be the flu. And they actually considered your worst fear, which is shortening the mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.153046334427945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we never had a thing on Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But on Apollo 8. I mean, it’s safe to say that—I guess, were you the first person to get sick in space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I don’t know whether I was or not. But—and at the time I didn’t know it was motion sickness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you thought it might be the flu. And they actually considered your worst fear, which is shortening the mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, but that’s another example. You know the damn doctor’s (what?) 100,000 miles away; he doesn’t know what’s going on. And I got over it very rapidly. And Jim and Bill both told me that they felt queasy, too, when they started moving around. And I threw up a couple of times, and it was over with. It wasn’t a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and now it’s so common. I mean, it’s like half the people—."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.32989839114151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I gather some people just don’t get over it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn’t have any trouble with it. Well, I—somebody said that Glenn puked when he got back, too. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He admitted that he did, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.814689371779642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He admitted that he did, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know why he would do it on reentry, but you would think maybe in space you might. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it wasn’t a factor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it was certainly uncomfortable."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.682988190866268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know why he would do it on reentry, but you would think maybe in space you might. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it wasn’t a factor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it was certainly uncomfortable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, nobody likes to throw up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was short-term."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.536653545406963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it wasn’t a factor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it was certainly uncomfortable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, nobody likes to throw up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was short-term."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Short-term. I thought I had never—take—I don’t take pills if I don’t have to, and I had taken a Secanol and I thought it was a reaction. I honestly didn’t think it was motion sickness because we had been for 14 days in that space and never had any trouble, because we had worked—we couldn’t move around in Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you might not have affected your inner ear as much. When you—when Jim Lovell (and you talked about your crew, how you said you didn’t want “us” to mess anything up)—a couple of the stories that I want to check the facts and have you reflect and tell stories."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.485170606007737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, nobody likes to throw up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was short-term."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Short-term. I thought I had never—take—I don’t take pills if I don’t have to, and I had taken a Secanol and I thought it was a reaction. I honestly didn’t think it was motion sickness because we had been for 14 days in that space and never had any trouble, because we had worked—we couldn’t move around in Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you might not have affected your inner ear as much. When you—when Jim Lovell (and you talked about your crew, how you said you didn’t want “us” to mess anything up)—a couple of the stories that I want to check the facts and have you reflect and tell stories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jim Lovell inflates his life vest, because he’s—and he says, he’ll “never forget the disgusted look” you gave him."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.539078451119707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Short-term. I thought I had never—take—I don’t take pills if I don’t have to, and I had taken a Secanol and I thought it was a reaction. I honestly didn’t think it was motion sickness because we had been for 14 days in that space and never had any trouble, because we had worked—we couldn’t move around in Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you might not have affected your inner ear as much. When you—when Jim Lovell (and you talked about your crew, how you said you didn’t want “us” to mess anything up)—a couple of the stories that I want to check the facts and have you reflect and tell stories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jim Lovell inflates his life vest, because he’s—and he says, he’ll “never forget the disgusted look” you gave him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[laughs] Well, that’s true. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did he do? And what did you think when that happened?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.710087167910785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jim Lovell inflates his life vest, because he’s—and he says, he’ll “never forget the disgusted look” you gave him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[laughs] Well, that’s true. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did he do? And what did you think when that happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn’t a big deal. But, you know, again, it was an anomaly. [laughs] And Lovell, as I recall, he squirted it out the urine dump system or something so we didn’t get too much CO2 in the cabin. But that—the worst thing he did was he fouled up the computer!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did he do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.011207964345317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[laughs] Well, that’s true. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did he do? And what did you think when that happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn’t a big deal. But, you know, again, it was an anomaly. [laughs] And Lovell, as I recall, he squirted it out the urine dump system or something so we didn’t get too much CO2 in the cabin. But that—the worst thing he did was he fouled up the computer!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did he do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh he did that, I think, we were either around the Moon—in or around the Moon. He hit the wrong number on the computer, the wrong button, and had the spacecraft think it was back on the launch pad. And we had to reinitialize everything again for the reentry! All—they read up stuff, and we had to re—we had to refill all the memory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a good thing you—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.456897738161464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn’t a big deal. But, you know, again, it was an anomaly. [laughs] And Lovell, as I recall, he squirted it out the urine dump system or something so we didn’t get too much CO2 in the cabin. But that—the worst thing he did was he fouled up the computer!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did he do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh he did that, I think, we were either around the Moon—in or around the Moon. He hit the wrong number on the computer, the wrong button, and had the spacecraft think it was back on the launch pad. And we had to reinitialize everything again for the reentry! All—they read up stuff, and we had to re—we had to refill all the memory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a good thing you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was getting tired!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—it’s a good thing he made those mistakes on your flight, and then he was ready for Apollo 13 then."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.84099748684607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh he did that, I think, we were either around the Moon—in or around the Moon. He hit the wrong number on the computer, the wrong button, and had the spacecraft think it was back on the launch pad. And we had to reinitialize everything again for the reentry! All—they read up stuff, and we had to re—we had to refill all the memory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a good thing you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was getting tired!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—it’s a good thing he made those mistakes on your flight, and then he was ready for Apollo 13 then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, I’ll tell you what: I think the only person that hasn’t made a mistake was crucified about 2000 years ago. Everybody’s going to make a mistake. Everybody’s going to have a day when they wish they didn’t. So you just have to plan not to make it bad. And Lovell didn’t have any bad mistakes. He did a great job. He’s—he could whip that computer like you couldn’t believe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked about how, you know, some astronauts like Wally Schirra being famous for their jokes and their pranks."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.378886096495634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was getting tired!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—it’s a good thing he made those mistakes on your flight, and then he was ready for Apollo 13 then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, I’ll tell you what: I think the only person that hasn’t made a mistake was crucified about 2000 years ago. Everybody’s going to make a mistake. Everybody’s going to have a day when they wish they didn’t. So you just have to plan not to make it bad. And Lovell didn’t have any bad mistakes. He did a great job. He’s—he could whip that computer like you couldn’t believe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked about how, you know, some astronauts like Wally Schirra being famous for their jokes and their pranks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you ever a recipient? I mean, did they play jokes on you? Do you remember any of them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.08765121832848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, I’ll tell you what: I think the only person that hasn’t made a mistake was crucified about 2000 years ago. Everybody’s going to make a mistake. Everybody’s going to have a day when they wish they didn’t. So you just have to plan not to make it bad. And Lovell didn’t have any bad mistakes. He did a great job. He’s—he could whip that computer like you couldn’t believe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked about how, you know, some astronauts like Wally Schirra being famous for their jokes and their pranks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you ever a recipient? I mean, did they play jokes on you? Do you remember any of them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember much about it. I—to be honest with you, I’m sure I was a participant in some of them, but I don’t—they don’t remember—I don’t remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you didn’t really take part, though, in flying jokes? Like on Guenter Wendt or—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.095865701640097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember much about it. I—to be honest with you, I’m sure I was a participant in some of them, but I don’t—they don’t remember—I don’t remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you didn’t really take part, though, in flying jokes? Like on Guenter Wendt or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why not?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 18.995406335155664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s just not my nature. You know, I enjoy Wally and his wife and Jo and Susan and I went for 30 days around the Far East on a good will tour in the—in a 707 without windows. And Wally, I think, is great; and I think he contributed enormously to the program. More than any of the other first seven, Wally Schirra and Deke Slayton did the job. But he just is a different person [laughs] than I am from that standpoint."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the technicians, the engineers, and the managers behind the scene who you felt really made noteworthy contributions, that are—their names are worth being mentioned. And tell us stories about them and your interaction with them, and why you single them out."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.439340372395181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s just not my nature. You know, I enjoy Wally and his wife and Jo and Susan and I went for 30 days around the Far East on a good will tour in the—in a 707 without windows. And Wally, I think, is great; and I think he contributed enormously to the program. More than any of the other first seven, Wally Schirra and Deke Slayton did the job. But he just is a different person [laughs] than I am from that standpoint."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the technicians, the engineers, and the managers behind the scene who you felt really made noteworthy contributions, that are—their names are worth being mentioned. And tell us stories about them and your interaction with them, and why you single them out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if you have—if I have to go back in the people that made NASA work, you start with Jim Webb. Okay? He was—he’s not an engineer. Then you go down the line to people like Gilruth and Kraft, Slayton, [Kurt H.] Debus, von Braun. I’m sure I’ll leave some—left some—Low. My goodness. How could you leave George Low [out]? These were all the giants that made it work.\\n\\n On the other hand, there were just hundreds of—well, thousands of people that cared, that knew what they were going to—that their one goal in life was to do their job and do it perfectly. And they’re the George Pages, the Aaron Cohen, Doug [Douglas R.] Broome. You could just go on and on and on with people at a lower level of management who were motivated. Who cared. And you know their contributions were what made it work. They’re the ones that made it work. And they weren’t just all at NASA. They were just as motivated in all the contractors, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any stories that stand out? You told us your story about Jim Webb and riding in the car with him. Any stories about Chris Kraft? I mean, he’s legendary."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.275587266310241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I did Deke—I think it’s fortunate that the doctors took him off flight status, because he had the integrity and the dedication to run that Flight Operations—Flight Crew Operations Division with integrity and in a way that makes sense. So I think—and Deke, you know, so he didn’t blow up and leave or any—he just stayed there and did his job. He was committed. He was one of the great people in the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you mean it’s fortunate that he—\\n\\n Borman; Fortunate for the program.\n\n—fortunate that he was kept on the ground?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Fortunate that he was kept on the ground. I really believe that. You know, if you ask me where I think I contributed the most to the Apollo Program: I think I contributed the most to the Apollo Program out in Downey, California, as part of the redefinition team, not as an astronaut on Apollo 8. I think I contributed more to the program there than it’s a strange part of our society. All attention is on the celebrities (who happen to be the astronauts). And, you know, I don’t care what you say: there’s nobody that flew that did as much for the program as George Low or Chris Kraft. You could go down the line. But they didn’t get all the hoopla."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was the most challenging milestone of your career then? That—your time at Downey, or—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The time at Downey was the most challenging, I think. We had a lot of balls in the air there. And we—I think that our team out there did a really important job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—when you left NASA, were there—what did you draw on from your NASA experience to go on to your experience at Eastern?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.639541407011379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Fortunate that he was kept on the ground. I really believe that. You know, if you ask me where I think I contributed the most to the Apollo Program: I think I contributed the most to the Apollo Program out in Downey, California, as part of the redefinition team, not as an astronaut on Apollo 8. I think I contributed more to the program there than it’s a strange part of our society. All attention is on the celebrities (who happen to be the astronauts). And, you know, I don’t care what you say: there’s nobody that flew that did as much for the program as George Low or Chris Kraft. You could go down the line. But they didn’t get all the hoopla."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was the most challenging milestone of your career then? That—your time at Downey, or—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The time at Downey was the most challenging, I think. We had a lot of balls in the air there. And we—I think that our team out there did a really important job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—when you left NASA, were there—what did you draw on from your NASA experience to go on to your experience at Eastern?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I tried to draw on the management style that I’d seen at NASA which was, to me, the most effective management team this country’s ever produced, and the most effective management style. And I still think it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any things that stand out, you know, from any of your time at NASA that—any stories that you think, “Oh I need to tell these stories. I need to get these stories on the record.”"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.821712674457087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The time at Downey was the most challenging, I think. We had a lot of balls in the air there. And we—I think that our team out there did a really important job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—when you left NASA, were there—what did you draw on from your NASA experience to go on to your experience at Eastern?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I tried to draw on the management style that I’d seen at NASA which was, to me, the most effective management team this country’s ever produced, and the most effective management style. And I still think it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any things that stand out, you know, from any of your time at NASA that—any stories that you think, “Oh I need to tell these stories. I need to get these stories on the record.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I have a—I—well, you know, after the fire—when I went out there—I never will forget Mr. Webb, in his very nice way, managed to change the management at North American (as you know). When I sat out there with the North American people and Bill Bergen came in and said, you know, “Look around to your left and your right because a lot of you aren’t going to be here in a week.” [chuckles] There wasn’t any touchy-feely kind of crap. It was just “Let’s get the job done. We got to get it done.” So—\\n\\n And there was another very traumatic time in an office when—after the fire, when one of the really respected civilian—contractor people had a nervous breakdown, and they had to haul him away in a straitjacket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Somebody you can name, or—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.024125193841208, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I tried to draw on the management style that I’d seen at NASA which was, to me, the most effective management team this country’s ever produced, and the most effective management style. And I still think it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any things that stand out, you know, from any of your time at NASA that—any stories that you think, “Oh I need to tell these stories. I need to get these stories on the record.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I have a—I—well, you know, after the fire—when I went out there—I never will forget Mr. Webb, in his very nice way, managed to change the management at North American (as you know). When I sat out there with the North American people and Bill Bergen came in and said, you know, “Look around to your left and your right because a lot of you aren’t going to be here in a week.” [chuckles] There wasn’t any touchy-feely kind of crap. It was just “Let’s get the job done. We got to get it done.” So—\\n\\n And there was another very traumatic time in an office when—after the fire, when one of the really respected civilian—contractor people had a nervous breakdown, and they had to haul him away in a straitjacket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Somebody you can name, or—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think you ought to name him because, you know, he’s since recovered and played a very important role. But he started drawing a organizational chart of Heaven. And I never will forget—I forgot he had Big Daddy. And then he was—when he just lost it all. And you know, the—poor Joe [Joseph P.] Shea lost it. But it was—I was very at home there because the overriding goal and the mission drove things. And it was—to me, it was a very worthwhile mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—one of the things that some people have said that from that era when they look now at the space program, that now so many people sign off on things, that the responsibility is so watered down that no one’s responsible."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.84459900474223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think you ought to name him because, you know, he’s since recovered and played a very important role. But he started drawing a organizational chart of Heaven. And I never will forget—I forgot he had Big Daddy. And then he was—when he just lost it all. And you know, the—poor Joe [Joseph P.] Shea lost it. But it was—I was very at home there because the overriding goal and the mission drove things. And it was—to me, it was a very worthwhile mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—one of the things that some people have said that from that era when they look now at the space program, that now so many people sign off on things, that the responsibility is so watered down that no one’s responsible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can you believe that they could get one flight plan today with one man, Chris Kraft, making the decision? I can’t. I don’t know much about NASA today, but I just can’t believe that would happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when I left NASA and went to Eastern, you know, I just—I don’t think you can keep one foot on the beach and one foot in the boat. So I got off the beach and went on the boat, which was Eastern; and I never looked back much to see what went on at NASA. And I—last thing I ever wanted to be was a professional astronaut. As you know, there are some around. And so I’m not competent to really analyze current NASA. But a lot of the old-timers that stayed on afterward have told me or written me or called me and said, “God, you can’t believe what it’s like now.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what let you go and do—you know, so many people (and I don’t want to say “so many”)—but you’re right. That spaceflight—there’s this sense that it changes you somehow. That, you know, you have this experience and you’re not the same and—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.919258030545963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when I left NASA and went to Eastern, you know, I just—I don’t think you can keep one foot on the beach and one foot in the boat. So I got off the beach and went on the boat, which was Eastern; and I never looked back much to see what went on at NASA. And I—last thing I ever wanted to be was a professional astronaut. As you know, there are some around. And so I’m not competent to really analyze current NASA. But a lot of the old-timers that stayed on afterward have told me or written me or called me and said, “God, you can’t believe what it’s like now.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what let you go and do—you know, so many people (and I don’t want to say “so many”)—but you’re right. That spaceflight—there’s this sense that it changes you somehow. That, you know, you have this experience and you’re not the same and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t understand that. To me it was a—look: Apollo 8 was a definite success. It was a dangerous mission. But while I was doing that, guys were flying to Hanoi [North Vietnam] with 105s, in F-105s. Now tell me: I figured that the risks were about the same. And we got all focused on going to the Moon. You know, it was interesting. Looking back at the Earth was inspiring. But, you know, you go to the Grand Canyon and look around I find beauty looking out here in this (what you call)—the barren desert! I think you either have an innate belief in a Spiritual Being or a God or you don’t have. You don’t have to go to the Moon to—you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, but some people come back; and, you know, Buzz Aldrin has talked a lot about how he had a rough time after the Moon. You know, you could say—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had a very rough time. Buzz had a very difficult childhood. And Buzz, unfortunately, I don’t think has recovered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And knowing that, it has been hard for him to go on."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.132508922828848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t understand that. To me it was a—look: Apollo 8 was a definite success. It was a dangerous mission. But while I was doing that, guys were flying to Hanoi [North Vietnam] with 105s, in F-105s. Now tell me: I figured that the risks were about the same. And we got all focused on going to the Moon. You know, it was interesting. Looking back at the Earth was inspiring. But, you know, you go to the Grand Canyon and look around I find beauty looking out here in this (what you call)—the barren desert! I think you either have an innate belief in a Spiritual Being or a God or you don’t have. You don’t have to go to the Moon to—you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, but some people come back; and, you know, Buzz Aldrin has talked a lot about how he had a rough time after the Moon. You know, you could say—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had a very rough time. Buzz had a very difficult childhood. And Buzz, unfortunately, I don’t think has recovered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And knowing that, it has been hard for him to go on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, what let you go on and have, like, this life after—I mean, there’s—I bet there’s people who know you as the head of Eastern Airlines who may not have ever known. I mean, people of a younger generation. I mean, the fact that you had success outside of (as you said) being “a professional astronaut,” what let you do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.036121025365386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had a very rough time. Buzz had a very difficult childhood. And Buzz, unfortunately, I don’t think has recovered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And knowing that, it has been hard for him to go on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, what let you go on and have, like, this life after—I mean, there’s—I bet there’s people who know you as the head of Eastern Airlines who may not have ever known. I mean, people of a younger generation. I mean, the fact that you had success outside of (as you said) being “a professional astronaut,” what let you do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I—as I said, I’ve been very fortunate. And I just have been able to compartmentalize my life after I left Eastern (involuntarily). I was the first guy Lorenzo fired. But nevertheless, you know then I started with something else. And I just try never to look back. Like Satchel Paige said: Somebody might be gaining on you if you look back. So, I just feel very, very privileged to have been part of NASA in that era. I was with Chuck Yeager this last weekend, and he said, “Aw, you know, you should’ve stayed with the Air Force.” (He’s mellowed a lot). But still, I think I contributed more to the country there than I—in—than I could have if I had stayed in the Air Force.\\n\\n Of course he was right. When he told me I could kiss my Air Force career goodbye, I did kiss it goodbye. I didn’t fill in all the blocks. You know, I hadn’t gone to any of the schools and so on and so forth. When I left NASA, the Air Force offered me an opportunity to come back and head their Military Man in Space Program. Well, it didn’t take a genius to realize that there weren’t going to be two space programs. So I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—you told us some stories about Chris Kraft. Any stories stand out about any of the other folks you mentioned, like George Low? I mean, any little anecdotes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.758453018389551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "George Low and I were pretty much on the same page. I don’t think he didn’t—I can’t recall ever disagreeing with anything that he said. But Joe Shea, who was the head of—Joe didn’t have the experience in [managing]. He didn’t have that. So Joe—and Joe didn’t—took it awfully hard after the fire. That was the end of him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you mentioned getting close to Nixon and doing the roles for Nixon; and he played such a role in where the space program went after Apollo in terms of Shuttle. Were you privy to any of that? Or did you counsel him at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. You know another man that you should mention that was really a giant, too, was Sam Phillips. He was really the one person, the Apollo Program Manager Office in Washington, that I think had a practical head on his [shoulders]. He was a good—he was a wonderful leader."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your recollections of Guenter Wendt?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.287170020432834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. You know another man that you should mention that was really a giant, too, was Sam Phillips. He was really the one person, the Apollo Program Manager Office in Washington, that I think had a practical head on his [shoulders]. He was a good—he was a wonderful leader."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your recollections of Guenter Wendt?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t have much—you know, Guenter Wendt was a German guy who I would trust to do everything right. All the funny—fun and games and—it was a bunch of crap as far as I’m concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Von Braun? Did you have a personal—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.874633356036482, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. You know another man that you should mention that was really a giant, too, was Sam Phillips. He was really the one person, the Apollo Program Manager Office in Washington, that I think had a practical head on his [shoulders]. He was a good—he was a wonderful leader."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your recollections of Guenter Wendt?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t have much—you know, Guenter Wendt was a German guy who I would trust to do everything right. All the funny—fun and games and—it was a bunch of crap as far as I’m concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Von Braun? Did you have a personal—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Von Braun was wonderful. I knew him very well because I spent a lot of time at Huntsville on the—he was—he had a rare combination. He was a wonderful engineer. He was a great visionary (I’m sure he would be saying we’re having apartments [on the Moon]), but he was also a super salesman. He had a rare combination. And his people were really devoted to von Braun. And if he said something, I believed him. But—all of the people that I’ve discussed with you: they told me something, you could put it in the bank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anybody who you didn’t trust or didn’t—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.305148173373869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t have much—you know, Guenter Wendt was a German guy who I would trust to do everything right. All the funny—fun and games and—it was a bunch of crap as far as I’m concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Von Braun? Did you have a personal—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Von Braun was wonderful. I knew him very well because I spent a lot of time at Huntsville on the—he was—he had a rare combination. He was a wonderful engineer. He was a great visionary (I’m sure he would be saying we’re having apartments [on the Moon]), but he was also a super salesman. He had a rare combination. And his people were really devoted to von Braun. And if he said something, I believed him. But—all of the people that I’ve discussed with you: they told me something, you could put it in the bank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anybody who you didn’t trust or didn’t—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, George Mueller I didn’t think was as—I didn’t distrust him. But I think he was sort of a gadfly; and Sam Phillips provided the guts in that program, as far as I’m concerned. George is still alive. He’s out trying to launch some new, lost-cost rocket; and I hope he succeeds. But I think Sam Phillips was the man there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you still follow the space program and keep up with things"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2038866337949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, George Mueller I didn’t think was as—I didn’t distrust him. But I think he was sort of a gadfly; and Sam Phillips provided the guts in that program, as far as I’m concerned. George is still alive. He’s out trying to launch some new, lost-cost rocket; and I hope he succeeds. But I think Sam Phillips was the man there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you still follow the space program and keep up with things"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No? You—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I read Aviation Week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. There you go"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.670985148661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No? You—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I read Aviation Week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. There you go"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve moved on. Where do you think—what do—what would you like to see as the direction of the space program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1864014181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve moved on. Where do you think—what do—what would you like to see as the direction of the space program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’d like to see the Space Station lead to a long-term mission to put humans on Mars. I think that would define a goal in the mission and a well thought out—I think it’s more difficult. Bill Anders has convinced me it’s much more difficult than people have projected because of the requirement for shielding (radiation shielding); but I think that would be a good goal for it. And I hope the Space Station works out well and that we do find things on orbit that we can do that will help, you know, people here on Earth. I’m not—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—sure we have—you know, we’ve talked about the Shuttle and their flying fishes and worms and all that crap. You wonder what it’s all about. You know, you have a—kids send up experiments on a billion-dollar launch? Come on! Where’s the mission there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—the science portion of your mission; I mean, the exploration part of it. I know you said the motivation that you sensed at the time was this Cold War and to beat the Russians."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.429334909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’d like to see the Space Station lead to a long-term mission to put humans on Mars. I think that would define a goal in the mission and a well thought out—I think it’s more difficult. Bill Anders has convinced me it’s much more difficult than people have projected because of the requirement for shielding (radiation shielding); but I think that would be a good goal for it. And I hope the Space Station works out well and that we do find things on orbit that we can do that will help, you know, people here on Earth. I’m not—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—sure we have—you know, we’ve talked about the Shuttle and their flying fishes and worms and all that crap. You wonder what it’s all about. You know, you have a—kids send up experiments on a billion-dollar launch? Come on! Where’s the mission there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—the science portion of your mission; I mean, the exploration part of it. I know you said the motivation that you sensed at the time was this Cold War and to beat the Russians."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you see any other benefit coming out of it? Or was that a side benefit?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.69926101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—sure we have—you know, we’ve talked about the Shuttle and their flying fishes and worms and all that crap. You wonder what it’s all about. You know, you have a—kids send up experiments on a billion-dollar launch? Come on! Where’s the mission there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—the science portion of your mission; I mean, the exploration part of it. I know you said the motivation that you sensed at the time was this Cold War and to beat the Russians."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you see any other benefit coming out of it? Or was that a side benefit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a side benefit for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It really was for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9991788999999995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you see any other benefit coming out of it? Or was that a side benefit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a side benefit for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It really was for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not the sense of—? Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3324209999999996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a side benefit for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It really was for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not the sense of—? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I just have to be honest with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. No, that’s—no—that’s what I want you to be."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7026899999999996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not the sense of—? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I just have to be honest with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. No, that’s—no—that’s what I want you to be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was on the side; and it was fine as long as it didn’t get in the way of the main mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you know that just the fact of Apollo changed our life on Earth more than, probably, almost anything of this century?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3489999999999998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was on the side; and it was fine as long as it didn’t get in the way of the main mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you know that just the fact of Apollo changed our life on Earth more than, probably, almost anything of this century?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I agree with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the important thing: to do it. You know, and to—and to have it accomplished. And to extend humans’ horizons. That was what came out of Apollo, not how do you make Teflon pots and pans. And whether that is a lasting thing? I think it is. I think it’s a—and I think that Apollo was extremely important. I think it may have been, other than World War II,—it may have been the most important project in this century."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you look up at the Moon a little differently than the rest of us? Or are you—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00048:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the important thing: to do it. You know, and to—and to have it accomplished. And to extend humans’ horizons. That was what came out of Apollo, not how do you make Teflon pots and pans. And whether that is a lasting thing? I think it is. I think it’s a—and I think that Apollo was extremely important. I think it may have been, other than World War II,—it may have been the most important project in this century."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you look up at the Moon a little differently than the rest of us? Or are you—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes I do. I try to. I try to feel like everybody thinks I should. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is, in awe: “I can’t believe I was really there.” And sometime I do. But sometimes I do. But most often I find I just revel in the beautiful Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Anything that—I mean, I’ve really gone through all my questions. So anything that you think is—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00068:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.63033391200001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as me personally?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you personally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would say it was this, that every picture that they have seen or will see, taken on the Moon, that we did, we handled and processed, everything, be it television, the still pictures, whatever, and that we were able to take this information and preserve it so it’ll still be there for generations to come if they ever want to use it. It’s there, and who knows when it’ll ever be done again. The advances that have been made in photography since they went to the digital technique, it’s just absolutely fantastic. Just think what we could have done with a simple little camera that we have today that you take your pictures in color, it produces sound. You can go directly to your video screen, put it on your computer. It’s automatic focus, automatic this, automatic everything. Just think of what Ed [Edward H.] White [II] could have done if he had that on his maneuvering device, how much simpler it would have been. So there have been many, many advances. Film is almost gone. It’s all digital and electronic these days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of which, the work that NASA put together to preserve the space experience, how have some of those things benefited photography and the general public?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean the film that we’ve preserved?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The techniques or the film."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00068:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 37.36703768000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would say it was this, that every picture that they have seen or will see, taken on the Moon, that we did, we handled and processed, everything, be it television, the still pictures, whatever, and that we were able to take this information and preserve it so it’ll still be there for generations to come if they ever want to use it. It’s there, and who knows when it’ll ever be done again. The advances that have been made in photography since they went to the digital technique, it’s just absolutely fantastic. Just think what we could have done with a simple little camera that we have today that you take your pictures in color, it produces sound. You can go directly to your video screen, put it on your computer. It’s automatic focus, automatic this, automatic everything. Just think of what Ed [Edward H.] White [II] could have done if he had that on his maneuvering device, how much simpler it would have been. So there have been many, many advances. Film is almost gone. It’s all digital and electronic these days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of which, the work that NASA put together to preserve the space experience, how have some of those things benefited photography and the general public?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean the film that we’ve preserved?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The techniques or the film."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The techniques were not new. No, it’s rather standard. As a matter of fact, the color sequence camera is something that you probably studied in high school physics. You pass a light through a red, green, and blue filter, and you have white. If you use the negative technique and use the other filters—I forget the combination. I think it’s cyan, magenta, and yellow, if you pass light through that, you get a black, you can’t say an image. It’s not an image, but it’s black, so it’s subtractive colors is what I’m trying to say. These things, that’s not new. You learned that in physics in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of your favorite photographs or moments from your time at NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00068:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.2, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Shuttle was just coming in. As a matter of fact, the first Shuttle was brought, I think to White Sands from Palmdale, California, somewhere out there, and it was at White Sands. But that’s about the time that I departed. So I don’t know too much about the Shuttle other than what I see and read and hear like everyone else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned earlier, we have so many advances now, and now so many of these pictures are on the Internet. How do you feel about seeing this accessible through the Internet now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "These that are taken now, you say?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and some of the older ones are available, too. On the Internet you can get to them so that the general public can see them relative—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of those that are in storage?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I don’t know exactly which ones are all available, but I know many of them are."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00068:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 8.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These that are taken now, you say?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and some of the older ones are available, too. On the Internet you can get to them so that the general public can see them relative—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of those that are in storage?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I don’t know exactly which ones are all available, but I know many of them are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I read your question right and heard your question right, everything that has ever been taken is available to the public."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m not sure about that, but I know selected ones are available to the public now."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.209502155582264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really was. He was at [NACA] when I went there. I didn’t get there until after college, and I graduated from college in ’44, ’45. He was already there, and I didn’t meet him until 1947. But he had friends that told him about me, and I had friends that told me about him. They were trying to get us together, but whenever there were parties we just didn’t seem to go to the same parties.\\n\\n One day I’m over in the Administration Building waiting to pick up something from a shuttle bus, and I see this good-looking man coming down the stairs, and I thought, “He’s good-looking.” But I figured he’d just walk out. He kept walking, he kept coming towards me, and I’m wondering what in the world is this? He walked up to me and said, “I’ve been trying to meet you through mutual friends and we don’t seem to have any. So I’ve decided to introduce myself.” I could tell how embarrassed he was to be doing this because I knew how the Europeans were. You have to have a proper introduction.\\n\\n I said to him, “Well, my mother requires three written references from anybody I go out with.”\\n\\n He looked at me and he didn’t offer me any references, but he said, “I’ll call you sometime.” He called me that night. That was the beginning of a beautiful friendship and life. I was dating a lot of different people because there were a lot of dances and things, but I didn’t care anything about any of these people. He eliminated all my friends by saying, “I have to see you a little more often.” Finally I realized I wasn’t seeing anybody but him. That’s how it all happened between the two of us. It couldn’t have been a better deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just an absolutely wonderful life we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many years were you together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sixty-four, and I wouldn’t have minded 64 more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That says a lot right there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.677224617313625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just an absolutely wonderful life we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many years were you together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sixty-four, and I wouldn’t have minded 64 more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That says a lot right there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned something from him every single day he did research, because he’d come up with something. He was researching in medicine, and we were interested in a lot of these bad diseases. He found something for cancer He turned it in, and they went to the doctors and they said, “It’s just too expensive, we can’t do it.”\\n\\n Now this is how sometimes things don’t get done because they say it’s too expensive. But when you think of how long we’ve been contributing to cancer [research], and we ought to have all the answers there, but we don’t have them. That’s off the subject matter. But I told it because it was just amazing to me that he could contribute in any subject matter.\\n\\n While he was at NASA he switched subjects quite often, and he ended up in space and one of the Center Directors who was out here said to Bob, “How can you switch from this to this?”\\n\\n He said, “Well, if you have a good education, you can switch to anything.” I guess you could. That was [Edgar M.] Cortright. The Cortrights were very good friends of ours. She is deceased but he is not, and he lives now up in Maine. They retired up there. They had a daughter in that area. Oh, I miss my friends so much. They’re all deceased too. This is the bad thing about getting old, especially if you don’t feel it. I just don’t feel it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a great blessing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.308027352570694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sixty-four, and I wouldn’t have minded 64 more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That says a lot right there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned something from him every single day he did research, because he’d come up with something. He was researching in medicine, and we were interested in a lot of these bad diseases. He found something for cancer He turned it in, and they went to the doctors and they said, “It’s just too expensive, we can’t do it.”\\n\\n Now this is how sometimes things don’t get done because they say it’s too expensive. But when you think of how long we’ve been contributing to cancer [research], and we ought to have all the answers there, but we don’t have them. That’s off the subject matter. But I told it because it was just amazing to me that he could contribute in any subject matter.\\n\\n While he was at NASA he switched subjects quite often, and he ended up in space and one of the Center Directors who was out here said to Bob, “How can you switch from this to this?”\\n\\n He said, “Well, if you have a good education, you can switch to anything.” I guess you could. That was [Edgar M.] Cortright. The Cortrights were very good friends of ours. She is deceased but he is not, and he lives now up in Maine. They retired up there. They had a daughter in that area. Oh, I miss my friends so much. They’re all deceased too. This is the bad thing about getting old, especially if you don’t feel it. I just don’t feel it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a great blessing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. I decided I wasn’t going to be old. Bob was like that too. We never got old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever research a project together?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.676576978482334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. I decided I wasn’t going to be old. Bob was like that too. We never got old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever research a project together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I did not do that, but I did a lot of stuff at NASA. I guess I gave all my time to the researchers. I did not do research. But I was involved in it, and I knew all about it. I had to know about it because I had to acquire the proper materials. People say, “Well, how did it change when you went to N-A-S-A?” Didn’t change at all. We still had to do aeronautics. We just had to do aeronautics and space.\\n\\n Nothing changed, we just took on double work, and it was a lot more work. We had to build up a space collection, and we had to build it up fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We worked overtime and we had all these brilliant people. I had them checking everywhere and getting information that we could get from other collecting agencies. We soon built up the library with what was known in space, because space was a new field. In a few years we had probably the best library in space in the country. I know it was the best scientific library in the country. I got a lot of credit for that. I got the NASA Medal for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you correspond with other places that had materials? Now everybody’s answer is you just go to the Internet. You didn’t have an Internet."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.52952997609148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I did not do that, but I did a lot of stuff at NASA. I guess I gave all my time to the researchers. I did not do research. But I was involved in it, and I knew all about it. I had to know about it because I had to acquire the proper materials. People say, “Well, how did it change when you went to N-A-S-A?” Didn’t change at all. We still had to do aeronautics. We just had to do aeronautics and space.\\n\\n Nothing changed, we just took on double work, and it was a lot more work. We had to build up a space collection, and we had to build it up fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We worked overtime and we had all these brilliant people. I had them checking everywhere and getting information that we could get from other collecting agencies. We soon built up the library with what was known in space, because space was a new field. In a few years we had probably the best library in space in the country. I know it was the best scientific library in the country. I got a lot of credit for that. I got the NASA Medal for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you correspond with other places that had materials? Now everybody’s answer is you just go to the Internet. You didn’t have an Internet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn’t. By phone. That’s how we corresponded. I had all these people that were so bright. They understood the subject matter so well, they did the phoning, I didn’t phone, because it’d come to a point where they’d ask me a technical question about it that I understood it enough to collect materials, and I understood it enough to get the right journals in. We had to subscribe to a lot of journals, and we had a great collection, and it was foreign and domestic, and I had to know enough. I had to learn enough foreign language to understand those titles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get the foreign documents and those kinds of things into the NASA libraries?\n\nDid you have restrictions?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:28", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.14529793642963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s the system that’s on the Internet right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The NTRS [NASA Technical Reports Server]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our scientific system was put on the Internet. That’s the scientific system on there. In any case he said, “Yeah, I really like that. Sounds like something that we ought to be thinking about.” I just decided I was going to mention money. So I said, “Who’s going to pay for it?” You should have seen my bosses, their eyes got big."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The gasp."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gasp. He said, “I’ll pay for it.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year was this?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:30", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.49477548492181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our scientific system was put on the Internet. That’s the scientific system on there. In any case he said, “Yeah, I really like that. Sounds like something that we ought to be thinking about.” I just decided I was going to mention money. So I said, “Who’s going to pay for it?” You should have seen my bosses, their eyes got big."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The gasp."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gasp. He said, “I’ll pay for it.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year was this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in the late ’80s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the Center Director at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:32", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.771972761024234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gasp. He said, “I’ll pay for it.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year was this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in the late ’80s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the Center Director at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Donald P. Hearth. He was a great friend of mine. He is the one that I got a promotion to a [GS] 14, and my boss didn’t let it go into effect. I sat there for almost a year with no increase, and finally I went back to the Chief Scientist, and the Director called my boss and said, “Why haven’t I gotten Jane Hess’s promotion in here?” At a 14 level it was approved by the front office.\\n\\n I got the promotion finally, but they were just terrible. They hated the fact that the library was so popular. I was a branch head. They had about four other branches, and they wanted all the branches to get equal treatment. It couldn’t be. We shouldn’t have been under the service area anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were mentioning the fact that this is a computer system. This is something completely different from when you started."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:36", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 28.113546618548433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Donald P. Hearth. He was a great friend of mine. He is the one that I got a promotion to a [GS] 14, and my boss didn’t let it go into effect. I sat there for almost a year with no increase, and finally I went back to the Chief Scientist, and the Director called my boss and said, “Why haven’t I gotten Jane Hess’s promotion in here?” At a 14 level it was approved by the front office.\\n\\n I got the promotion finally, but they were just terrible. They hated the fact that the library was so popular. I was a branch head. They had about four other branches, and they wanted all the branches to get equal treatment. It couldn’t be. We shouldn’t have been under the service area anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were mentioning the fact that this is a computer system. This is something completely different from when you started."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a computer system that had all the material on it, but you could not access it with one language. What they had, we could start doing what they were doing, and we could also include the fact that with this system we could access ours with one language, because it had a black box, and everything went through this language-wise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Computer language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the computer. That was the thing that sold it to me. I said, “Well, we don’t have to do away with anything, we can just incorporate it, it’s wonderful.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just pulls from what was already in existence."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.648984801173558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I left I can tell you that the ones that were employed by the government I had probably 10 or 12. But I had a larger staff, including contractors. My total staff was 30 some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many were there when you first started in the library?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was two separate buildings, and in the East Area they were doing everything for all the Centers, they had a number of people over there. They had a lot of catalogers. I would say they probably had 15 people total. But in the West Area library where they sent me there were just two or three other than myself, maybe four, about four other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did those two libraries form together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eventually we went together. We went together in 1955 when we moved my library to the Flight Building and that library in the East Area moved also to the Flight Building on the second floor. Thank God they got us out of there, because it’s metal, and it was the hottest place. It was awful.\\n\\n But you all want to see a picture of my library? The building. Some friends of ours who signed this and gave this to us in 2010. I’d never seen this book. Have you seen this book?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I actually have seen that one. That’s great."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.387760890192843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was two separate buildings, and in the East Area they were doing everything for all the Centers, they had a number of people over there. They had a lot of catalogers. I would say they probably had 15 people total. But in the West Area library where they sent me there were just two or three other than myself, maybe four, about four other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did those two libraries form together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eventually we went together. We went together in 1955 when we moved my library to the Flight Building and that library in the East Area moved also to the Flight Building on the second floor. Thank God they got us out of there, because it’s metal, and it was the hottest place. It was awful.\\n\\n But you all want to see a picture of my library? The building. Some friends of ours who signed this and gave this to us in 2010. I’d never seen this book. Have you seen this book?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I actually have seen that one. That’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hadn’t seen it. Susan [L.] Adkins was another one of the gals that worked with me, and she was also very brilliant, but she was not the scientist. She was left in charge when I retired. They brought in a guy from California. He said he was civil service, but it turned out he’d never worked for civil service, he was a contractor, never worked really in NASA. He was working with the library out there but he was a contractor. Susan, as long as she was alive, I knew things would go well.\\n\\n She took up flying, and she crashed out here and died, this is her [showing photograph]. Just awful. She was a great gal. Let me see. Whose picture was I going to show you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Picture of your library."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.208623211325381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eventually we went together. We went together in 1955 when we moved my library to the Flight Building and that library in the East Area moved also to the Flight Building on the second floor. Thank God they got us out of there, because it’s metal, and it was the hottest place. It was awful.\\n\\n But you all want to see a picture of my library? The building. Some friends of ours who signed this and gave this to us in 2010. I’d never seen this book. Have you seen this book?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I actually have seen that one. That’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hadn’t seen it. Susan [L.] Adkins was another one of the gals that worked with me, and she was also very brilliant, but she was not the scientist. She was left in charge when I retired. They brought in a guy from California. He said he was civil service, but it turned out he’d never worked for civil service, he was a contractor, never worked really in NASA. He was working with the library out there but he was a contractor. Susan, as long as she was alive, I knew things would go well.\\n\\n She took up flying, and she crashed out here and died, this is her [showing photograph]. Just awful. She was a great gal. Let me see. Whose picture was I going to show you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Picture of your library."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The library. Here it is. This building was the library building out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The entire building was used for the library? Was that the only thing that was there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.120692457028202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hadn’t seen it. Susan [L.] Adkins was another one of the gals that worked with me, and she was also very brilliant, but she was not the scientist. She was left in charge when I retired. They brought in a guy from California. He said he was civil service, but it turned out he’d never worked for civil service, he was a contractor, never worked really in NASA. He was working with the library out there but he was a contractor. Susan, as long as she was alive, I knew things would go well.\\n\\n She took up flying, and she crashed out here and died, this is her [showing photograph]. Just awful. She was a great gal. Let me see. Whose picture was I going to show you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Picture of your library."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The library. Here it is. This building was the library building out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The entire building was used for the library? Was that the only thing that was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all library at one time, and the secret files were on the first floor. Later other areas were moved into the library building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to have a specific classification to get in there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.134102730031335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The library. Here it is. This building was the library building out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The entire building was used for the library? Was that the only thing that was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all library at one time, and the secret files were on the first floor. Later other areas were moved into the library building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to have a specific classification to get in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, honey, I’ve had classifications much higher than secret, and they go a lot higher. Nobody knows that unless you have to get these classifications."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also I was thinking about the foreign documents because you mentioned the journals. Now they have import and export control. Did you ever have that problem?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:60", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.26011414447926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all library at one time, and the secret files were on the first floor. Later other areas were moved into the library building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to have a specific classification to get in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, honey, I’ve had classifications much higher than secret, and they go a lot higher. Nobody knows that unless you have to get these classifications."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also I was thinking about the foreign documents because you mentioned the journals. Now they have import and export control. Did you ever have that problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were on the list for a lot of those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have a problem acquiring anything because it was foreign? No approval process?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.400126827199177, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, honey, I’ve had classifications much higher than secret, and they go a lot higher. Nobody knows that unless you have to get these classifications."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also I was thinking about the foreign documents because you mentioned the journals. Now they have import and export control. Did you ever have that problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were on the list for a lot of those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have a problem acquiring anything because it was foreign? No approval process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But during the war we had two communists working in the library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a secret as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:64", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.666807585776864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were on the list for a lot of those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have a problem acquiring anything because it was foreign? No approval process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But during the war we had two communists working in the library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a secret as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They got caught. Well, my boss was still Betty Gilman, she was smart as a whip. Betty Gilman thought they were the best thing since sliced bread.\\n\\n In any case, there are pictures in here of meetings of the libraries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you host those? Were you a mover and shaker about getting the other libraries to Langley?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:66", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.074230650863182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But during the war we had two communists working in the library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a secret as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They got caught. Well, my boss was still Betty Gilman, she was smart as a whip. Betty Gilman thought they were the best thing since sliced bread.\\n\\n In any case, there are pictures in here of meetings of the libraries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you host those? Were you a mover and shaker about getting the other libraries to Langley?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Each Center hosted their own libraries. Langley was the lead library. I hosted the ones that were here. But also the directors of Langley had me entertain all their important visitors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Langley had the open house in ’59, the first one after NASA was formed, but they also had those meetings where as you said the important people would come through."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:68", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.415811834292425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They got caught. Well, my boss was still Betty Gilman, she was smart as a whip. Betty Gilman thought they were the best thing since sliced bread.\\n\\n In any case, there are pictures in here of meetings of the libraries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you host those? Were you a mover and shaker about getting the other libraries to Langley?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Each Center hosted their own libraries. Langley was the lead library. I hosted the ones that were here. But also the directors of Langley had me entertain all their important visitors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Langley had the open house in ’59, the first one after NASA was formed, but they also had those meetings where as you said the important people would come through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After the astronauts left here, they were invited back here because the head of Japan was coming to visit—the son of the head of Japan. He has been the head for a long time now, but he was the son then. That was in my real early days. All the directors out here had me do the parties. I did all the parties for everybody. Entertained. When we had meetings they had me do the program for the wives, because a lot of these people brought their wives. These are my retirement [photographs]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year did you retire?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.684235371436028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Each Center hosted their own libraries. Langley was the lead library. I hosted the ones that were here. But also the directors of Langley had me entertain all their important visitors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Langley had the open house in ’59, the first one after NASA was formed, but they also had those meetings where as you said the important people would come through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After the astronauts left here, they were invited back here because the head of Japan was coming to visit—the son of the head of Japan. He has been the head for a long time now, but he was the son then. That was in my real early days. All the directors out here had me do the parties. I did all the parties for everybody. Entertained. When we had meetings they had me do the program for the wives, because a lot of these people brought their wives. These are my retirement [photographs]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year did you retire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In 1990. That’s my nephew, Charles Dempsey, right there, that’s Avis’s son with me at my retirement party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you ready to retire?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.87137263492892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After the astronauts left here, they were invited back here because the head of Japan was coming to visit—the son of the head of Japan. He has been the head for a long time now, but he was the son then. That was in my real early days. All the directors out here had me do the parties. I did all the parties for everybody. Entertained. When we had meetings they had me do the program for the wives, because a lot of these people brought their wives. These are my retirement [photographs]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year did you retire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In 1990. That’s my nephew, Charles Dempsey, right there, that’s Avis’s son with me at my retirement party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you ready to retire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I was ready. I didn’t retire until I was 68. These two sisters, Cordelia and Avis, they were a lot older than me, they wanted to retire near me. If you want to you can look through them, you don’t have to. Everybody gets everything out and wants everybody to see it, and I’m not like that really. But I thought the library building you should see because it was big."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I notice they’re NASA photos. So I might get those numbers off there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.42144769744311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I was ready. I didn’t retire until I was 68. These two sisters, Cordelia and Avis, they were a lot older than me, they wanted to retire near me. If you want to you can look through them, you don’t have to. Everybody gets everything out and wants everybody to see it, and I’m not like that really. But I thought the library building you should see because it was big."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I notice they’re NASA photos. So I might get those numbers off there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The meatball [NASA logo] was on that. They got that worm [NASA logo, 1975-1992]. I refused to let them take the meatball off my building. I called the Director. I said, “I’m not going to let them take this off this building, because I can’t stand that worm.”\\n\\n He said, “I can’t stand it either.” So he let me keep it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then when it got faded he sent somebody over there to paint it and get it looking better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s all who you know."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.912719663825678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The meatball [NASA logo] was on that. They got that worm [NASA logo, 1975-1992]. I refused to let them take the meatball off my building. I called the Director. I said, “I’m not going to let them take this off this building, because I can’t stand that worm.”\\n\\n He said, “I can’t stand it either.” So he let me keep it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then when it got faded he sent somebody over there to paint it and get it looking better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s all who you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. I have found that out at NASA, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anything to do with records retention and records management?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:82", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.003357609661329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. I have found that out at NASA, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anything to do with records retention and records management?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, we kept all the records and all the old material. We had acquired material from 1915; 1915 is when it became N-A-C-A. But it existed before that. It was under Smithsonian. When it became independent we had everything that had been published actually in aeronautics from the 1800s, and we were on exchange lists with all the countries. Of course England was doing more aeronautics than anybody else in Europe, so we had all their material. Somebody over there messed up with some of their records, and they lost a good many of their old documents, and they borrowed them from us to make copies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "God knows what they’ve done with that. What was on the second floor over there, the one that they left in charge that was a computer person, she said, “Everything that you need to know is on the computer.”\\n\\n I said, “It is not. The very old stuff is not on there. Unless you know what has been done you don’t know where to start with research. Every person that ever came to the library to do research said, ‘I’m going to research in this area, can we find out what’s been done here?’” That was the first thing we did. You had to have a lot of background knowledge of that in order to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about how you had somebody that was in physics and chemistry and you had all these people that had that knowledge in their head of where to go look for these things to help the researchers."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:84", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.225952899623698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, we kept all the records and all the old material. We had acquired material from 1915; 1915 is when it became N-A-C-A. But it existed before that. It was under Smithsonian. When it became independent we had everything that had been published actually in aeronautics from the 1800s, and we were on exchange lists with all the countries. Of course England was doing more aeronautics than anybody else in Europe, so we had all their material. Somebody over there messed up with some of their records, and they lost a good many of their old documents, and they borrowed them from us to make copies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "God knows what they’ve done with that. What was on the second floor over there, the one that they left in charge that was a computer person, she said, “Everything that you need to know is on the computer.”\\n\\n I said, “It is not. The very old stuff is not on there. Unless you know what has been done you don’t know where to start with research. Every person that ever came to the library to do research said, ‘I’m going to research in this area, can we find out what’s been done here?’” That was the first thing we did. You had to have a lot of background knowledge of that in order to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about how you had somebody that was in physics and chemistry and you had all these people that had that knowledge in their head of where to go look for these things to help the researchers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Listen. I don’t understand people that don’t want somebody smarter than they are working for them. I really loved it. I knew they knew things I didn’t know. Detail. I just had broad knowledge, because I went back to school. I got the rest of my library science, and then I took chemistry and physics and aeronautics, and I had a great helper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your own tutor at home."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:86", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.584392110692997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "God knows what they’ve done with that. What was on the second floor over there, the one that they left in charge that was a computer person, she said, “Everything that you need to know is on the computer.”\\n\\n I said, “It is not. The very old stuff is not on there. Unless you know what has been done you don’t know where to start with research. Every person that ever came to the library to do research said, ‘I’m going to research in this area, can we find out what’s been done here?’” That was the first thing we did. You had to have a lot of background knowledge of that in order to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about how you had somebody that was in physics and chemistry and you had all these people that had that knowledge in their head of where to go look for these things to help the researchers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Listen. I don’t understand people that don’t want somebody smarter than they are working for them. I really loved it. I knew they knew things I didn’t know. Detail. I just had broad knowledge, because I went back to school. I got the rest of my library science, and then I took chemistry and physics and aeronautics, and I had a great helper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your own tutor at home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. Bob when he first came to [NACA] worked in aeronautics, but he ended up more in space. He brought laser work to the Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a whole new field for your area to research."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:88", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.982657900769997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Listen. I don’t understand people that don’t want somebody smarter than they are working for them. I really loved it. I knew they knew things I didn’t know. Detail. I just had broad knowledge, because I went back to school. I got the rest of my library science, and then I took chemistry and physics and aeronautics, and I had a great helper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your own tutor at home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. Bob when he first came to [NACA] worked in aeronautics, but he ended up more in space. He brought laser work to the Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a whole new field for your area to research."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That’s when Cortright said, “How can you work in all these fields, Bob?” Bob, he was the most unassuming person, he didn’t think he ever did anything great. He really didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was doing his job."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:92", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.027972716999997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That’s when Cortright said, “How can you work in all these fields, Bob?” Bob, he was the most unassuming person, he didn’t think he ever did anything great. He really didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was doing his job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just doing his job. I would have thought it was insulting to say, “Well, if you have a good background education you can do it.” But he didn’t mean that that way. He just didn’t think that was anything special. He was the best Christian. I shouldn’t be telling all this on here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s the best Christian I ever knew, I never could get him to talk about anybody. Always if I said something about somebody he’d find something good to tell me about him. He was like that with everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you real quick if there’s anything else in your notes that we haven’t talked about that maybe you want to talk about."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:104", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I’ve got something here somewhere. I felt that certainly getting the computers changed was a major accomplishment, and it took a lot. Also we had a center for processing. Eventually we didn’t do any of that here. We did it all in Baltimore [Maryland]. We had a NASA Center up there that printed all the materials and distributed it. They did the cards and everything. Then eventually when we were computerized the cards ceased to be.\\n\\n Of course we had to subscribe to all the open literature that pertained to our goals. My major responsibility was building the collection that met the requirements of the research staff, and that was major, and that was not easy, and I used every support I could find to do it.\\n\\n That’s when I set up the library committee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a smart piece of strategy. They’re the ones that benefited."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, and they knew that. They really appreciated the library. Anything new, they would come to the library and tell us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a nice partnership."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a wonderful relationship, yes. My management hated the fact that we had this library committee. They just despised it. But it meant that I could get things done. I couldn’t get anything done through them. But I don’t understand people that give up when you can’t get something done the way that you’re supposed to, find another way. It’s possible. I know. I did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to keep up with numbers, like how many journals you subscribed to per year? Do you remember any of the numbers?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00941:106", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 14.93, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, and they knew that. They really appreciated the library. Anything new, they would come to the library and tell us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a nice partnership."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a wonderful relationship, yes. My management hated the fact that we had this library committee. They just despised it. But it meant that I could get things done. I couldn’t get anything done through them. But I don’t understand people that give up when you can’t get something done the way that you’re supposed to, find another way. It’s possible. I know. I did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to keep up with numbers, like how many journals you subscribed to per year? Do you remember any of the numbers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had all kinds of statistics. Yes, we had to do that, had to justify the subscription."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They’re so expensive."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.194039497593753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hear the point. I just want to hear the voice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, OK. I'm sick right now and going to the doctor’s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m gonna start this cassette tape. OK, this is Sharleen Hirschi Simpson, and this is January 26, 2011, and I'm interviewing Rose Boice, who was a Peace Corps volunteer in Bolivia, the Bolivia II group. And so then let's just go ahead and can you tell us a little bit about what you're doing now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, what I'm doing now is being retired happily and I am volunteering at the school that I just retired from. I do that a half a day, a week and one evening a week I go and volunteer at a friend's house who is sponsoring a group of Turkish refugees, and I help them with their homework and high school work. I also work at my local church and work with the teenagers for the confirmation program, particularly the social justice projects and helping neighbors, friends and the community. I also babysit for my grandkids and have fun to work with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you think about way back when you were getting ready, when you joined the Peace Corps? What were you doing at the time that you learned about the Peace Corps and what made you decide to join it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.771154997326391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, OK. I'm sick right now and going to the doctor’s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m gonna start this cassette tape. OK, this is Sharleen Hirschi Simpson, and this is January 26, 2011, and I'm interviewing Rose Boice, who was a Peace Corps volunteer in Bolivia, the Bolivia II group. And so then let's just go ahead and can you tell us a little bit about what you're doing now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, what I'm doing now is being retired happily and I am volunteering at the school that I just retired from. I do that a half a day, a week and one evening a week I go and volunteer at a friend's house who is sponsoring a group of Turkish refugees, and I help them with their homework and high school work. I also work at my local church and work with the teenagers for the confirmation program, particularly the social justice projects and helping neighbors, friends and the community. I also babysit for my grandkids and have fun to work with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you think about way back when you were getting ready, when you joined the Peace Corps? What were you doing at the time that you learned about the Peace Corps and what made you decide to join it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in college. I was a senior. I was looking for a job. I was thinking that it would be totally moral to do something like the Peace Corps. And I specifically wanted to help America because I wanted to use my Spanish. I had a couple of years of high school, but I loved it. Definitely not fluent, but I, I was not finding anything that was significant for me. I was a teenager and that's kind of a hard person to place. And I thought maybe the Peace Corps would have a better idea what to do with the sociology majors. And I would in twenty one, I said to myself, I want to do something with my life that's significant at this point in my life to see who I am and what I can do. And I thought this would be a great chance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So that's kind of why you did join the Peace Corps, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.52350555258488, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, what I'm doing now is being retired happily and I am volunteering at the school that I just retired from. I do that a half a day, a week and one evening a week I go and volunteer at a friend's house who is sponsoring a group of Turkish refugees, and I help them with their homework and high school work. I also work at my local church and work with the teenagers for the confirmation program, particularly the social justice projects and helping neighbors, friends and the community. I also babysit for my grandkids and have fun to work with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you think about way back when you were getting ready, when you joined the Peace Corps? What were you doing at the time that you learned about the Peace Corps and what made you decide to join it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in college. I was a senior. I was looking for a job. I was thinking that it would be totally moral to do something like the Peace Corps. And I specifically wanted to help America because I wanted to use my Spanish. I had a couple of years of high school, but I loved it. Definitely not fluent, but I, I was not finding anything that was significant for me. I was a teenager and that's kind of a hard person to place. And I thought maybe the Peace Corps would have a better idea what to do with the sociology majors. And I would in twenty one, I said to myself, I want to do something with my life that's significant at this point in my life to see who I am and what I can do. And I thought this would be a great chance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So that's kind of why you did join the Peace Corps, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And a lot of advertising on TV, which people have mentioned that they don't do anymore. And I think the advertisers swayed me differently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did did you, so when did you apply?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.137228391760978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in college. I was a senior. I was looking for a job. I was thinking that it would be totally moral to do something like the Peace Corps. And I specifically wanted to help America because I wanted to use my Spanish. I had a couple of years of high school, but I loved it. Definitely not fluent, but I, I was not finding anything that was significant for me. I was a teenager and that's kind of a hard person to place. And I thought maybe the Peace Corps would have a better idea what to do with the sociology majors. And I would in twenty one, I said to myself, I want to do something with my life that's significant at this point in my life to see who I am and what I can do. And I thought this would be a great chance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So that's kind of why you did join the Peace Corps, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And a lot of advertising on TV, which people have mentioned that they don't do anymore. And I think the advertisers swayed me differently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did did you, so when did you apply?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I applied to February of my senior year, 1962, OK. And quite quickly. And I was going to be a professor in Cleveland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were OK. So what did your family think when you decided to go into the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.8191426575122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And a lot of advertising on TV, which people have mentioned that they don't do anymore. And I think the advertisers swayed me differently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did did you, so when did you apply?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I applied to February of my senior year, 1962, OK. And quite quickly. And I was going to be a professor in Cleveland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were OK. So what did your family think when you decided to go into the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I forgot in my family for guidance when I was trying to decide and they said, you know, I don't really want to. But later I realized because of me that they were so positively sure that I would not. And that's why they said what they did. My father got for a whole year and begged me not to go because he was sure I would be killed. And my mother was terribly disappointed that she had messed with me so well. She thought she knew me better than that. My brothers and sisters didn't care one way or the other because the school were shocked that I had really lost my mind so I couldn't get in the car, which made me feel that I was doing the right thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we were in the same boat with her, OK, and you did did talk about being asked to join the Bolivia to project. What did you do to get yourself ready? When you knew you were going to go into the Peace Corps, did you do anything special?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.576825175013553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I applied to February of my senior year, 1962, OK. And quite quickly. And I was going to be a professor in Cleveland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were OK. So what did your family think when you decided to go into the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I forgot in my family for guidance when I was trying to decide and they said, you know, I don't really want to. But later I realized because of me that they were so positively sure that I would not. And that's why they said what they did. My father got for a whole year and begged me not to go because he was sure I would be killed. And my mother was terribly disappointed that she had messed with me so well. She thought she knew me better than that. My brothers and sisters didn't care one way or the other because the school were shocked that I had really lost my mind so I couldn't get in the car, which made me feel that I was doing the right thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we were in the same boat with her, OK, and you did did talk about being asked to join the Bolivia to project. What did you do to get yourself ready? When you knew you were going to go into the Peace Corps, did you do anything special?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to a map and found Bolivia and beyond that, I did nothing to get ready. I do remember something amusing and my parents that they were called for graduation and then we got a fuller brush and we had a court. In our case, I think it was insect repellent. So, you know, going to the tropics first, what you would need, I would terribly accessible to in effect like that. That's all I can remember doing to prepare it was the fact that there was no there was very little preparation or any other way. So what you're getting into"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is we didn't really know too much, did we? We can. OK. Can you talk a little bit about the training that would have been your first experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.529805750015058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I forgot in my family for guidance when I was trying to decide and they said, you know, I don't really want to. But later I realized because of me that they were so positively sure that I would not. And that's why they said what they did. My father got for a whole year and begged me not to go because he was sure I would be killed. And my mother was terribly disappointed that she had messed with me so well. She thought she knew me better than that. My brothers and sisters didn't care one way or the other because the school were shocked that I had really lost my mind so I couldn't get in the car, which made me feel that I was doing the right thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we were in the same boat with her, OK, and you did did talk about being asked to join the Bolivia to project. What did you do to get yourself ready? When you knew you were going to go into the Peace Corps, did you do anything special?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to a map and found Bolivia and beyond that, I did nothing to get ready. I do remember something amusing and my parents that they were called for graduation and then we got a fuller brush and we had a court. In our case, I think it was insect repellent. So, you know, going to the tropics first, what you would need, I would terribly accessible to in effect like that. That's all I can remember doing to prepare it was the fact that there was no there was very little preparation or any other way. So what you're getting into"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is we didn't really know too much, did we? We can. OK. Can you talk a little bit about the training that would have been your first experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How long would you like that to be? You have every one of the hardest things I've ever done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the training for Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.477561944461176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to a map and found Bolivia and beyond that, I did nothing to get ready. I do remember something amusing and my parents that they were called for graduation and then we got a fuller brush and we had a court. In our case, I think it was insect repellent. So, you know, going to the tropics first, what you would need, I would terribly accessible to in effect like that. That's all I can remember doing to prepare it was the fact that there was no there was very little preparation or any other way. So what you're getting into"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is we didn't really know too much, did we? We can. OK. Can you talk a little bit about the training that would have been your first experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How long would you like that to be? You have every one of the hardest things I've ever done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the training for Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the Peace Corps, the Peace Corps or outside the Peace Corps, I found it psychologically very, very depressing. I felt that they were trying to break up, turn on each other so they could get rid of people and find a good excuse to so I can feel the support. But I expected to feel during the training, the training itself was very rough getting up at 3:00 in the morning and doing a mile. I thought the calisthenics were kind of fruity. They were weak. It wasn't really now that I have experienced physical strength, etc., etc. I know that what we did in Peace Corps was just, you know, jumping jacks and that was about it running around. Right. The training didn't apply to me or what I was doing or in any way prepare me for what I was about to go into. So, I mean, I can't I can't fathom that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you can you talk about being on the Arizona State campus?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.64173549384575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How long would you like that to be? You have every one of the hardest things I've ever done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the training for Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the Peace Corps, the Peace Corps or outside the Peace Corps, I found it psychologically very, very depressing. I felt that they were trying to break up, turn on each other so they could get rid of people and find a good excuse to so I can feel the support. But I expected to feel during the training, the training itself was very rough getting up at 3:00 in the morning and doing a mile. I thought the calisthenics were kind of fruity. They were weak. It wasn't really now that I have experienced physical strength, etc., etc. I know that what we did in Peace Corps was just, you know, jumping jacks and that was about it running around. Right. The training didn't apply to me or what I was doing or in any way prepare me for what I was about to go into. So, I mean, I can't I can't fathom that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you can you talk about being on the Arizona State campus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was wonderful. I loved it. I didn't know anything about the and the campus is beautiful. The air conditioning in the classroom, as long as there are sleeping quarters on the football stadium. And I couldn't believe that that's where they put the front. And that's what we heard. And I thought the protesters were about as good as they could get. Not having anything to compare it to. How about that? I have a project. Oh, I don't really know what it's doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's probably one of the few that give it to me. OK, so what did you think when you could you talk a little bit about going out to the Pima Maricopa Indian Reservation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.545352461537963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was wonderful. I loved it. I didn't know anything about the and the campus is beautiful. The air conditioning in the classroom, as long as there are sleeping quarters on the football stadium. And I couldn't believe that that's where they put the front. And that's what we heard. And I thought the protesters were about as good as they could get. Not having anything to compare it to. How about that? I have a project. Oh, I don't really know what it's doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's probably one of the few that give it to me. OK, so what did you think when you could you talk a little bit about going out to the Pima Maricopa Indian Reservation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, I hated it. I do not like heat. And here I was going to a southern country, in the tropics. We had heard from there. So that said, I spent a year in Honduras and being here is nothing like you find in South America. So I think it is. And that kind of for me, she would have thought of my roommate. She was 65 years old at the time anyway. It was not a good experience with the really good part was I survived and. I thought it would be the chicken coop and we serve breakfast, the fact that I can't remember a whole lot that we get there for the Indian tribe, my Indian tribe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the Peace Corps volunteers that you met?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the Peace Corps volunteers that you met in training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.82816940170885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, I hated it. I do not like heat. And here I was going to a southern country, in the tropics. We had heard from there. So that said, I spent a year in Honduras and being here is nothing like you find in South America. So I think it is. And that kind of for me, she would have thought of my roommate. She was 65 years old at the time anyway. It was not a good experience with the really good part was I survived and. I thought it would be the chicken coop and we serve breakfast, the fact that I can't remember a whole lot that we get there for the Indian tribe, my Indian tribe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the Peace Corps volunteers that you met?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the Peace Corps volunteers that you met in training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps volunteers that we met?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, your fellow Peace Corps volunteers. Trainees."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.253521557454274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the Peace Corps volunteers that you met in training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps volunteers that we met?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, your fellow Peace Corps volunteers. Trainees."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were an extremely young group and they help young people and they wanted to be honest and want Peace Corps with our data. And everything was an experiment, in my opinion. And I thought they did a good job. I you know, I don't know how to say it, but we worked. So we sang songs and we work them and we did our time of Puerto Rico now. And I like that America"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will move on to Puerto"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.837246174949193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps volunteers that we met?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, your fellow Peace Corps volunteers. Trainees."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were an extremely young group and they help young people and they wanted to be honest and want Peace Corps with our data. And everything was an experiment, in my opinion. And I thought they did a good job. I you know, I don't know how to say it, but we worked. So we sang songs and we work them and we did our time of Puerto Rico now. And I like that America"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will move on to Puerto"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We walked around in irrigation ditches. And once a week we get together. And I think with our great psychology day and we talked about civil rights to I think it's interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the you what do you remember about that pilgrimage that we made to Puerto Rico?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 28.708051305499104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were an extremely young group and they help young people and they wanted to be honest and want Peace Corps with our data. And everything was an experiment, in my opinion. And I thought they did a good job. I you know, I don't know how to say it, but we worked. So we sang songs and we work them and we did our time of Puerto Rico now. And I like that America"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will move on to Puerto"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We walked around in irrigation ditches. And once a week we get together. And I think with our great psychology day and we talked about civil rights to I think it's interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the you what do you remember about that pilgrimage that we made to Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You want me to say I got sick on the plane?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I don't care what you say. I'm just asking what you remember about it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 24.120057006110116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We walked around in irrigation ditches. And once a week we get together. And I think with our great psychology day and we talked about civil rights to I think it's interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the you what do you remember about that pilgrimage that we made to Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You want me to say I got sick on the plane?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I don't care what you say. I'm just asking what you remember about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lot of people saying that I was at that time and so was he. And he said in Arizona, you had a six foot pole and then put your cigarette in it and then pile the sand back in. And Puerto Rico, you threw it out the window. So that was the difference in the weather as well from the minute I got there of Puerto Rico. And it was cold and wet and we were in the middle of the rainy season. So we also about it. But I had a really good roommate who took off a good care of me and cut my hair and everything. There was a real camaraderie then in our group as much as the fact that we we were together and in Puerto Rico, the number of people that we were there with, the Dominican Republic group and I can't remember who, but several who were there, we had heard about our training in Phoenix and the Maricopa Indian Reservation, I should say, happy and they heard about us. And they were just dying to meet people who would actually survive that. And we thought everybody was going through that train, the same kind of training that they weren't at that left the three day love the overnight. I love the feeling of, hey, these are things I've never done before in my life and I can do it. Give me a confidence that I think that was the whole reason for it, is that when you got to Bolivia and you were around like I was in a in a community, you take care of yourself and you wouldn't be you wouldn't be fearful. But I guess that's what I have to say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you remember the 40 mile hike that we had to take from one side of the island to the other there at the end?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 27.009680392469292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I remember that my blisters were so bad because they gave us didn't fit. And I survived a day and a half and they called and got up and sent me home. I mean, took me back to where we started. I never finished that huge hike because I couldn't work for days. I couldn't move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think I built into the real total group, which was the last. Well, yeah. Okay. So"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember a variety of something"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then we went to my group\n\nThat that was yeah. That was a very nice, very nice family. And I went to the ocean and my favorite story of that is that we went to the ocean and we were saying to each other, branch of water just like that. And a lot of our guys were swimming. They were wonderful athletes and they came out. And so what happened to the man who owned the house on the ocean? And we said, fire to reconsider. And you remember that. And then we went to the guy and I remember getting hit with a jellyfish. That process. I can't even imagine what a shark would be like.\n\nBefore we found out that there was a packing plant just around the point that destroyed some of their stuff into the water. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Minor detail that the girls at the university would bring their dresses and hang them in the way you I've always been in the ladies room and then they would change it now because they were perspiring, they didn't show up, they conspired. And I thought, oh my goodness, I just can't be Puerto Rican, you know, because of being from New York. My idea of a Puerto Rican was probably different than what I encountered in Puerto Rico. So it was a wonderful again attack on my I and what I thought was reality then by the beginning of my immersion into diversity. There we go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a fancy term there. OK, so let's go back to when you were we you remember when we met in Miami ready to go to Bolivia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.304649279788585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, the international help, and spent another month learning the language and trying to learn the language anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that was a nice respite I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was good, but it was nice. We came with clothes for warm weather. And here we were in Vermont in"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "October!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "October. It was October and and the people in the neighborhood and they gave up everything, things. I remember the weekend and after that they said so we wouldn't corrupt group coming in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember that there were some threats about boycotting that, but I've never been to. But I wasn't about to boycott course."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.449610310876206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was good, but it was nice. We came with clothes for warm weather. And here we were in Vermont in"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "October!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "October. It was October and and the people in the neighborhood and they gave up everything, things. I remember the weekend and after that they said so we wouldn't corrupt group coming in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember that there were some threats about boycotting that, but I've never been to. But I wasn't about to boycott course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would never boycott like that. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, well let's talk about when you go to Bolivia, when you up with your problem, when you got to the process of getting into whatever you were going to do,"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 34.94401145652912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "October. It was October and and the people in the neighborhood and they gave up everything, things. I remember the weekend and after that they said so we wouldn't corrupt group coming in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember that there were some threats about boycotting that, but I've never been to. But I wasn't about to boycott course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would never boycott like that. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, well let's talk about when you go to Bolivia, when you up with your problem, when you got to the process of getting into whatever you were going to do,"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's going to be long and complex."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I got lots of tape."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 46.27721883808196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In shorts. Yeah, but I remember that. Yeah. Yeah I know. I would think if you wanted to dress me up, all Spanish words are jumping into my head, and took it to a seamstress and told her what you wanted and she made you a dress, kind of wonderful, the way things were there. When, when we were, when we were in, we started by cooking ourselves and we would buy a whole tree branch of bananas and we run that for two days, then we make chocolate pudding and mix it with the cooking. And the cooking was hard to figure because you had to go to wherever they were selling food that day and you'd get a prime of meat and you look at it and you didn't know what part of the cow it came from or how to cook it. Maybe it should be boiled, maybe fried, maybe. It was very difficult to cook. And we became pension and we went and got a food from the local restaurant. So every day and I like that system very much, and it was a great deal cheaper than trying to cook bad food for ourselves. OK, so brought her sister down and I moved down to Mineros when I heard they"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Weren't you in Saavedra? Yeah, was in Mineros. You were in Saavedra."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I and I lived with my first and only Bolivian sister and her family. And I grew up at the local school. And when I was talking to the director, who I think was between 80 and 90 years old, I I said to him, I will be happy to teach English or he wanted things that I thought I can do that I can do. I can teach English. I have to make it worth Peace Corps time. And I will have no curriculum, no paper trail, pencils, visual aids, nothing. I walk into the sixth grade and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you were teaching health and PE."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a lot of really funny stories, but I'd really rather get to Cochabamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's move on."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 43.64135426453551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I and I lived with my first and only Bolivian sister and her family. And I grew up at the local school. And when I was talking to the director, who I think was between 80 and 90 years old, I I said to him, I will be happy to teach English or he wanted things that I thought I can do that I can do. I can teach English. I have to make it worth Peace Corps time. And I will have no curriculum, no paper trail, pencils, visual aids, nothing. I walk into the sixth grade and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you were teaching health and PE."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a lot of really funny stories, but I'd really rather get to Cochabamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's move on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The school year ended and I went in to Mineros, why do I keep doing this, and talk to, um, the Mariners there. And they set me up with a summer program, and we were going to run it like a playground camp where morning and afternoon sessions and we have the kids that were going to help lead it. And we were training them. And we were we had already started collecting money from the parents get supplies that we needed. And some guy from Washington, D.C., Peace Corps comes down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, it was Derrick Singer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.865080534876876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to say that you never knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well I was buried in my own issues down here in Santa Cruz, you know, I'm doing"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I don't know what you did when when I left and went to Cochabamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But we did kitchen table surgery. All kinds of things that are discussed on my tape."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll have to go get your tape someday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll send a copy to you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.627867260974305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I don't know what you did when when I left and went to Cochabamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But we did kitchen table surgery. All kinds of things that are discussed on my tape."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll have to go get your tape someday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll send a copy to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would love to hear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me, you talked about all the things you did. What did you do in your free time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.268811554601893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are taking pictures. I just got to be fair, sorry, we have taken lots of pictures of for this rapid, et cetera, of the Florida politics and on the way into the city, one of our volunteers ran up instead of pounding on our window to say that President Kennedy had been shot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we parked car. This is crazy. You know what can't be happening. Have heard it correctly. And we drove on and then we all got out of the jeep. You know, everybody went their own way. And I went in to get a Coke from one of the little corner stores. And as I walked in the door, everybody looked at me, which isn't really uncommon, I guess. And because they were always looking at us, because we were different. And so I ordered my Coke and I stood there drinking because it was in the shade drinking by coke. And I heard the radio President Kennedy shot and he is dead. He has been assassinated. So I put the book down and went all the way to my house and woke up my housemates. And they didn't believe it, of course. And they called the embassy and the embassy confirmed it. And then the people in the community started knocking on the door and coming back to tell us they were sorry about our president. And we thought that was so funny. And we didn't know who our friends or anything. It was just people. We would go out the street and people would come up to us and say, you know, we're really sorry. They have the flags at half mast, people, black armbands, they tied black, you know, whatever, ribbons around everything. They could be really wrong. That man,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The same the same thing happened in Santa Cruz on the same thing happened in Santa Cruz. People came to say they were sorry about what had happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, it was it was touching, very, very touching. And that's all I can remember. Beautiful swimming pool, all the stuff you didn't have in Santa Cruz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you look back, did you do any traveling outside of Bolivia when you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.298771451848282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do want to say something about the health care that was mentioned in the emails that I was telling you about earlier when I went to Bolivia. Have the records somewhere. When we arrived in Santa Cruz and went to orientation at Santa Cruz, we went to a hotel, the Hotel Santa Cruz. And I think that's where I picked up a parasite."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very seriously ill when we were getting to Guabira, I was feverish for two days, I think. And then it took me a week to get over it. The following year, doctors came down and did stool samples and they found and they said, you've had this a long time. And I went, oh, what is this mean for my future? Five years later, they're discovering Crohn's disease that I've been battling Crohn's ever since. If they had caught that a little earlier. So I don't think I would have had the problems that I've had. Yeah, but I just wanted that on record. They need those doctors to stay in Cochabamba all the time. They could have visited us more than once a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well they came down and did all that kind of thing when we were about to leave and they discovered that I had hookworm. But it was fairly nascent. But I had to do the whole cure thing, which was not easy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mine was easy. It took two pills. That’s all I had was two pills. And hopefully they were gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, what kind of damage did they do? Ok, so if would you if you were to do it again, would you do it again?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.9311820000000015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I when I left, I felt I had to there was a question we were asked when they were debriefing us. And it was I don't feel that you've done everything you could possibly do. And I said, absolutely, I couldn't work anymore. I couldn't have done more if I had stood on my head. Well, and you know what's funny? Because I thought, oh, my God, nobody else is saying that. And I thought, but I'm not going to change my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I could work some days, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, I felt like I had worked very hard, but I would have never sure if I met the objective they had because, you know, there was this gap between what the Bolivians wanted you to do and what you already you were prepared to do, you know? And so, you know, when I just try to be philosophical about it because, I mean, they were still functioning. So I guess and they had and they had increased in size and all that kind of stuff. So I guess they must have worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the training telling us and I said I never finished it. One of my problems, if I have, I will be taking over for us when we leave. I will have done a good job, because that's about whether or not it's the same as the people you said, because I was I said to myself, I wonder whether. But that's what I work for all the time and that's what I work for. Well, you know, I create a position that can't be so Bolivian and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That that ability to keep it going, what they call it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.367980000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I could work some days, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, I felt like I had worked very hard, but I would have never sure if I met the objective they had because, you know, there was this gap between what the Bolivians wanted you to do and what you already you were prepared to do, you know? And so, you know, when I just try to be philosophical about it because, I mean, they were still functioning. So I guess and they had and they had increased in size and all that kind of stuff. So I guess they must have worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the training telling us and I said I never finished it. One of my problems, if I have, I will be taking over for us when we leave. I will have done a good job, because that's about whether or not it's the same as the people you said, because I was I said to myself, I wonder whether. But that's what I work for all the time and that's what I work for. Well, you know, I create a position that can't be so Bolivian and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That that ability to keep it going, what they call it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And you did it and you did it. That and I don't know if people are still paying attention to the energies, but I did what I could and I walked out the door and I can't go back overseas. There's no way. They haven't told me you want to die because I went back to Venezuela or we went to Venezuela or caught here three times. Amoebic dysentery. Oh, my goodness. Every time someone here came back and had a mammoth operation, they almost lost me. I had the three kids and I just said I had a chance again in my own cooking, we drink bottled water. You know, it's a very advanced country. And I got dysentery three times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds like through the years, although you haven't had any additional involvement with Bolivia, you have continued to be in a service kind of position doing things like what would have been described as Peace Corps activities?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7422000000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the training telling us and I said I never finished it. One of my problems, if I have, I will be taking over for us when we leave. I will have done a good job, because that's about whether or not it's the same as the people you said, because I was I said to myself, I wonder whether. But that's what I work for all the time and that's what I work for. Well, you know, I create a position that can't be so Bolivian and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That that ability to keep it going, what they call it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And you did it and you did it. That and I don't know if people are still paying attention to the energies, but I did what I could and I walked out the door and I can't go back overseas. There's no way. They haven't told me you want to die because I went back to Venezuela or we went to Venezuela or caught here three times. Amoebic dysentery. Oh, my goodness. Every time someone here came back and had a mammoth operation, they almost lost me. I had the three kids and I just said I had a chance again in my own cooking, we drink bottled water. You know, it's a very advanced country. And I got dysentery three times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds like through the years, although you haven't had any additional involvement with Bolivia, you have continued to be in a service kind of position doing things like what would have been described as Peace Corps activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw that. I thought it that thing, you know, have you continued have any involvement with. No, but I have had plenty of involvement with Hispanics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. I haven't really had continued involvement with Bolivia except for that trip we took. But I mean, nine years in South and Central America, you know, since. And probably the reason I went into to an apology when I got back and all the other stuff, but who knows? Anyway."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And you did it and you did it. That and I don't know if people are still paying attention to the energies, but I did what I could and I walked out the door and I can't go back overseas. There's no way. They haven't told me you want to die because I went back to Venezuela or we went to Venezuela or caught here three times. Amoebic dysentery. Oh, my goodness. Every time someone here came back and had a mammoth operation, they almost lost me. I had the three kids and I just said I had a chance again in my own cooking, we drink bottled water. You know, it's a very advanced country. And I got dysentery three times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds like through the years, although you haven't had any additional involvement with Bolivia, you have continued to be in a service kind of position doing things like what would have been described as Peace Corps activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw that. I thought it that thing, you know, have you continued have any involvement with. No, but I have had plenty of involvement with Hispanics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. I haven't really had continued involvement with Bolivia except for that trip we took. But I mean, nine years in South and Central America, you know, since. And probably the reason I went into to an apology when I got back and all the other stuff, but who knows? Anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we a tremendously influenced by our experience. Tremendously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Know, I know maybe this isn't the place to put that in, but I went and watched those that 20, 20 thing on the Internet. And, you know, they're saying, you know, because they've made a big ballyhoo about how Peace Corps training was now mostly done in country. And and we we did we it's not done like we did it. But, you know, from what it sounds like, maybe it sounds like they're not really doing much training anymore."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw that. I thought it that thing, you know, have you continued have any involvement with. No, but I have had plenty of involvement with Hispanics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. I haven't really had continued involvement with Bolivia except for that trip we took. But I mean, nine years in South and Central America, you know, since. And probably the reason I went into to an apology when I got back and all the other stuff, but who knows? Anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we a tremendously influenced by our experience. Tremendously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Know, I know maybe this isn't the place to put that in, but I went and watched those that 20, 20 thing on the Internet. And, you know, they're saying, you know, because they've made a big ballyhoo about how Peace Corps training was now mostly done in country. And and we we did we it's not done like we did it. But, you know, from what it sounds like, maybe it sounds like they're not really doing much training anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think they are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because, you know, they talk to us about how to present yourself to people and about where not to go and all the things you should and shouldn't do. And listening to what people there tell you, I mean, I was thinking about because they were talking about these volunteers that have been raped and they were talking about just arriving in this girl saying she was walking out. This was in Bangladesh. And all these guys that will you know, we would not have even gone out by ourselves. Because we were told that this wasn't cool to do, you know?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we a tremendously influenced by our experience. Tremendously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Know, I know maybe this isn't the place to put that in, but I went and watched those that 20, 20 thing on the Internet. And, you know, they're saying, you know, because they've made a big ballyhoo about how Peace Corps training was now mostly done in country. And and we we did we it's not done like we did it. But, you know, from what it sounds like, maybe it sounds like they're not really doing much training anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think they are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because, you know, they talk to us about how to present yourself to people and about where not to go and all the things you should and shouldn't do. And listening to what people there tell you, I mean, I was thinking about because they were talking about these volunteers that have been raped and they were talking about just arriving in this girl saying she was walking out. This was in Bangladesh. And all these guys that will you know, we would not have even gone out by ourselves. Because we were told that this wasn't cool to do, you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we are in a generation. And if you told us that we didn't do it. Yeah. I remember being in a classroom in Ballport where this girl had gone to Egypt and they told her not to go out and them and then they go on because the other women in the community would stop her and she went out and got stoned to death. But I had to run back to the hotel. Yeah. From the past to come out. Right. Right. Well, I did it anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the other thing I was I was thinking that was different for us and for some of the more recent groups is that very few of the volunteers really live by themselves. A lot of them live with family or, you know, they had roommates or whatever, you know, and I it was Latin America really wasn't the place that you could put women alone."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think they are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because, you know, they talk to us about how to present yourself to people and about where not to go and all the things you should and shouldn't do. And listening to what people there tell you, I mean, I was thinking about because they were talking about these volunteers that have been raped and they were talking about just arriving in this girl saying she was walking out. This was in Bangladesh. And all these guys that will you know, we would not have even gone out by ourselves. Because we were told that this wasn't cool to do, you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we are in a generation. And if you told us that we didn't do it. Yeah. I remember being in a classroom in Ballport where this girl had gone to Egypt and they told her not to go out and them and then they go on because the other women in the community would stop her and she went out and got stoned to death. But I had to run back to the hotel. Yeah. From the past to come out. Right. Right. Well, I did it anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the other thing I was I was thinking that was different for us and for some of the more recent groups is that very few of the volunteers really live by themselves. A lot of them live with family or, you know, they had roommates or whatever, you know, and I it was Latin America really wasn't the place that you could put women alone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved the 20-20 thing. I thought she slept in there by herself and I would make sure that at the end of, well I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well Rose, do you have anything else that you would like to say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we are in a generation. And if you told us that we didn't do it. Yeah. I remember being in a classroom in Ballport where this girl had gone to Egypt and they told her not to go out and them and then they go on because the other women in the community would stop her and she went out and got stoned to death. But I had to run back to the hotel. Yeah. From the past to come out. Right. Right. Well, I did it anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the other thing I was I was thinking that was different for us and for some of the more recent groups is that very few of the volunteers really live by themselves. A lot of them live with family or, you know, they had roommates or whatever, you know, and I it was Latin America really wasn't the place that you could put women alone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved the 20-20 thing. I thought she slept in there by herself and I would make sure that at the end of, well I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well Rose, do you have anything else that you would like to say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I said everything and I appreciate the chance to say it. I wanted to say that spite of the project, I'm so grateful to you for that. Well, I mean, I will be I think that over here is really, really important. Yeah, well, want know I was just dying right now just before I saw and I thought, oh yeah. I mean, right in the center of the fiftieth anniversary. Well next year. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes it is. Well, the thing that I have been so impressed with is the esprit de corps with our group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved the 20-20 thing. I thought she slept in there by herself and I would make sure that at the end of, well I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well Rose, do you have anything else that you would like to say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I said everything and I appreciate the chance to say it. I wanted to say that spite of the project, I'm so grateful to you for that. Well, I mean, I will be I think that over here is really, really important. Yeah, well, want know I was just dying right now just before I saw and I thought, oh yeah. I mean, right in the center of the fiftieth anniversary. Well next year. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes it is. Well, the thing that I have been so impressed with is the esprit de corps with our group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Forty years later and when we had that last reunion, there were like almost twenty people that were the former volunteers that were there excluding that other people, you know. Oh that's amazing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Forty years later and when we had that last reunion, there were like almost twenty people that were the former volunteers that were there excluding that other people, you know. Oh that's amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again, I'm not going to any I'm so sorry. I got everything right working at the at the place so I'm going to end it all up around here. I got go home and I thought I would past the people. I want it back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well that was that was different for me because I didn't go to her. I went to a show before the volunteers got there because I but I tried to interview all the guys I could get. So I pretty much stayed in my hotel room and interviewed people, which was really interesting because I didn't know a lot of the things they had been doing either, you know, so."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00257:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again, I'm not going to any I'm so sorry. I got everything right working at the at the place so I'm going to end it all up around here. I got go home and I thought I would past the people. I want it back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well that was that was different for me because I didn't go to her. I went to a show before the volunteers got there because I but I tried to interview all the guys I could get. So I pretty much stayed in my hotel room and interviewed people, which was really interesting because I didn't know a lot of the things they had been doing either, you know, so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or what they’ve done since. They really don’t talk about that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, they don't. All right. Well, I'm going to I'm going to cut this off now."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 35.577956132363575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From 89? Well, of course, the first day is a preparing-to-rendezvous day. It takes us two days to finally meet up with the Station. So I remember, you know, your biggest activity is post-insertion activities. You’re getting your suit off. You’re configuring the vehicle. You’re getting ready for bed. You’re cleaning up the entire middeck area. I say cleaning it--organizing it, so that when you start the next day’s activities, you’re not worrying about finding things. You’re not getting behind the time line.\\n\\n So the first day is hectic, but we had trained that several times. Everybody knew what they were supposed to do. I thought it was reasonably well organized, so that we got to bed on time, and the next day, we got up on time. I don’t remember being tired. That was going to be our docking day.\\n\\n Docking went extremely well. Terry’s an excellent pilot; did a great job. Everything was pretty much nominal. I’ll have to go back through my notes. I remember that there was something--Mike [Michael P.] Anderson and I were working the docking module in operations, it seems to me there was something there, but I can’t remember now what it was. But nothing that was critical enough to impede normal operations. Opened the hatch, did the television, and started docked operations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you exchange gifts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. We did that all in the base block, which is their equivalent service module, at the table."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what you exchanged?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question. As I recall, it might have been some models or pictures we signed. That’s a little fuzzy to me. See, when I talked about dividing tasks, I wasn’t in charge of gifts. So I was probably worrying about something else at that time and just showed up in time for the camera and lights and this, and then the commanders exchanged the gifts. I probably didn’t even see what they were. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were you in charge of?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 38.08711497083306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, we hope that--I was very religious about it, because I know that we had benefited from it, from past flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand on this flight you were working on telemedicine. What is telemedicine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, it’s what’s called the Telemedicine Instrument Package, TIPS, I think it was. What it was was basically a suitcase that in that suitcase included all the equipment to do a physical exam with the data connected to the Shuttle communications system, the downlink system, so all the data went to the flight surgeons in mission control. That’s sort of what telemedicine is.\\n\\n Telemedicine is not a new concept. I mean, UTMB [University of Texas Medical Branch] down in Galveston [Texas] does diagnostics medicine on people all over the country, even in prison populations. What was new was doing it from the Shuttle with a multiple hops involved, satellite hops. So we could hook up an EKG [Electrocardiogram]. We could send stethoscope sounds down to the ground. We actually had small cameras. You could do eye exams. You could do skin exams. So there were a number of things. That was a Pathfinder piece of instrumentation that we wanted to mature for both Space Station as well as for exploration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did every member of the crew participate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughs] We had two crew medical officers on board, myself and Terry, so we actually set it up. We did an exam, a full exam, on each other, and then I think we might have had--maybe Mike came in. I don’t recall who else got maybe partial exams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before the flight, did you go to some medical training or meet with some physicians?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.20790552314784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, it’s what’s called the Telemedicine Instrument Package, TIPS, I think it was. What it was was basically a suitcase that in that suitcase included all the equipment to do a physical exam with the data connected to the Shuttle communications system, the downlink system, so all the data went to the flight surgeons in mission control. That’s sort of what telemedicine is.\\n\\n Telemedicine is not a new concept. I mean, UTMB [University of Texas Medical Branch] down in Galveston [Texas] does diagnostics medicine on people all over the country, even in prison populations. What was new was doing it from the Shuttle with a multiple hops involved, satellite hops. So we could hook up an EKG [Electrocardiogram]. We could send stethoscope sounds down to the ground. We actually had small cameras. You could do eye exams. You could do skin exams. So there were a number of things. That was a Pathfinder piece of instrumentation that we wanted to mature for both Space Station as well as for exploration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did every member of the crew participate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughs] We had two crew medical officers on board, myself and Terry, so we actually set it up. We did an exam, a full exam, on each other, and then I think we might have had--maybe Mike came in. I don’t recall who else got maybe partial exams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before the flight, did you go to some medical training or meet with some physicians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we actually were trained on this very package, the training version of it, here at JSC by flight surgeons and by engineers. So, yes, we were trained by the instructors as part of our medical training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin called on board this flight. Do you remember that phone call, and what occurred?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 45.78656169238649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughs] We had two crew medical officers on board, myself and Terry, so we actually set it up. We did an exam, a full exam, on each other, and then I think we might have had--maybe Mike came in. I don’t recall who else got maybe partial exams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before the flight, did you go to some medical training or meet with some physicians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we actually were trained on this very package, the training version of it, here at JSC by flight surgeons and by engineers. So, yes, we were trained by the instructors as part of our medical training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin called on board this flight. Do you remember that phone call, and what occurred?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he talked to the commander. He was probably up on the flight deck, and I was probably someplace else. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Making sure those boxes are checked."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 50.87395743598499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we actually were trained on this very package, the training version of it, here at JSC by flight surgeons and by engineers. So, yes, we were trained by the instructors as part of our medical training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin called on board this flight. Do you remember that phone call, and what occurred?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he talked to the commander. He was probably up on the flight deck, and I was probably someplace else. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Making sure those boxes are checked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe it’s a memory thing, but I don’t remember it precisely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also read that you paid tribute to the twenty-fifth anniversary of the Skylab Project."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 56.526619373316656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he talked to the commander. He was probably up on the flight deck, and I was probably someplace else. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Making sure those boxes are checked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe it’s a memory thing, but I don’t remember it precisely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also read that you paid tribute to the twenty-fifth anniversary of the Skylab Project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what you said?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 50.5851326370185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe it’s a memory thing, but I don’t remember it precisely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also read that you paid tribute to the twenty-fifth anniversary of the Skylab Project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what you said?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I have it in my notebook. It was very intentional, because I felt that the world was forgetting about Skylab, and yet it was my earliest experience here at the Johnson Space Center. I came in as a Flight Controller. I started working Skylab reentry as a Guidance and Navigation Controller. Of course, it wasn’t crewed at that time. We brought it back into the Earth’s atmosphere in 1979.\\n\\n But here we had the country’s first Space Station. It set three world records, and the longest, eighty-four days. The book called Biomedical Results of Skylab, which really documented, for the first time, different physiological changes in the body, became a world standard. Even the Russians were using it to extend their missions on Salyut; at least, one of their flight surgeons told me that.\\n\\n Yet here this great program was sort of missing from the American consciousness, as I learned going out to give speeches. I was a great admirer of all those crew members, and, of course, Joe [Joseph P.] Kerwin was still with Wyle Labs [Laboratories] at that time. So I felt it was appropriate, since we were getting ready to build a Space Station in 1998, to also give tribute to the Skylab crews and the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your notebook. Is that something that you would keep on every mission, or is this something that you’ve compiled since you’ve been an astronaut?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 56.20570293002056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what you said?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I have it in my notebook. It was very intentional, because I felt that the world was forgetting about Skylab, and yet it was my earliest experience here at the Johnson Space Center. I came in as a Flight Controller. I started working Skylab reentry as a Guidance and Navigation Controller. Of course, it wasn’t crewed at that time. We brought it back into the Earth’s atmosphere in 1979.\\n\\n But here we had the country’s first Space Station. It set three world records, and the longest, eighty-four days. The book called Biomedical Results of Skylab, which really documented, for the first time, different physiological changes in the body, became a world standard. Even the Russians were using it to extend their missions on Salyut; at least, one of their flight surgeons told me that.\\n\\n Yet here this great program was sort of missing from the American consciousness, as I learned going out to give speeches. I was a great admirer of all those crew members, and, of course, Joe [Joseph P.] Kerwin was still with Wyle Labs [Laboratories] at that time. So I felt it was appropriate, since we were getting ready to build a Space Station in 1998, to also give tribute to the Skylab crews and the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your notebook. Is that something that you would keep on every mission, or is this something that you’ve compiled since you’ve been an astronaut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we each take a notebook up with us. It’s kind of personal mind-ticklers, you know, or things that we want to make sure we don’t forget that aren’t part of the formal Flight Data File, we call it, and notes and that type of thing. We get to keep it. It’s one of those few things we get to keep. So I have, I think, the last three missions, we had those implemented, and I have all three of mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a great memento."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 62.45078103335617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I have it in my notebook. It was very intentional, because I felt that the world was forgetting about Skylab, and yet it was my earliest experience here at the Johnson Space Center. I came in as a Flight Controller. I started working Skylab reentry as a Guidance and Navigation Controller. Of course, it wasn’t crewed at that time. We brought it back into the Earth’s atmosphere in 1979.\\n\\n But here we had the country’s first Space Station. It set three world records, and the longest, eighty-four days. The book called Biomedical Results of Skylab, which really documented, for the first time, different physiological changes in the body, became a world standard. Even the Russians were using it to extend their missions on Salyut; at least, one of their flight surgeons told me that.\\n\\n Yet here this great program was sort of missing from the American consciousness, as I learned going out to give speeches. I was a great admirer of all those crew members, and, of course, Joe [Joseph P.] Kerwin was still with Wyle Labs [Laboratories] at that time. So I felt it was appropriate, since we were getting ready to build a Space Station in 1998, to also give tribute to the Skylab crews and the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your notebook. Is that something that you would keep on every mission, or is this something that you’ve compiled since you’ve been an astronaut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we each take a notebook up with us. It’s kind of personal mind-ticklers, you know, or things that we want to make sure we don’t forget that aren’t part of the formal Flight Data File, we call it, and notes and that type of thing. We get to keep it. It’s one of those few things we get to keep. So I have, I think, the last three missions, we had those implemented, and I have all three of mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a great memento."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yes, I had all my notes, what I was going to read in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any other memories of the mission itself?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 67.52290966827643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They actually did all the training in the U.S. Those two experiments were--let’s see, I believe the guppy experiment was on the middeck, and the Japanese experiment was in SPACEHAB, and they came and trained us in the U.S. I’ve been to both those space centers, of course, the German and Japanese space centers, but I didn’t train there on these experiments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other memories from the flight? Anything significant or funny?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great crew, absolutely outstanding crew. I think Terry’s one of the best commanders I’ve worked with. I’ve always had outstanding commanders, but I thought that he did a really good job of working with the crew and the Russians. Let’s see. Everything was successful. We had a successful ten-day flight. No losses of any of the research. We did fix the VOA, and we got it up and running, got the experimental data they needed. So I was very satisfied with the flight. It went well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad to hear that. And I’m glad to hear that you’re hoping to get another flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in the NASA system. [Laughs] I think I’d have to make my own vehicle to get a flight at this point, but, you know, I can stay forever optimistic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’d like to talk about your role as Acting Deputy Director of Flight Crew Operations. How did you find out about that position, and how were you offered it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 50.22306878349693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had programs that I actually tried to put more light onto, because I wasn’t the Education Division. I supported them. I made sure people knew it was there, and then I started some programs. I started the Mars Settlement Design Competition, which brought in students from all over Houston for a weekend in Building 9, and then we exported it to White Sands [Test Facility, Las Cruces, New Mexico], and they brought in students from all over New Mexico, including the Four Corners Indian Reservation, which was a lot of fun.\\n\\n Then my other charge from Mr. Abbey was to grow the KC-135 student program, so I was out growing that. I think we finally maxed out our capability there and got funding for it, for the airplane. Had a good competition for grants, and then I would go out to Ellington and welcome them when I could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work at all with the Co-op Office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I supported it, but I tell you what, the Co-op Office is so successful, they turn away candidates. So I would go to their welcome sometimes. Whenever they asked me to come down and give a speech about exploration or something about spaceflight, I always did that and would try to fulfill all the invitations from the Educational Division, where it came to talk to the young people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also understand that you were coordinating an effort to apply NASA expertise to solve some of Texas’ water problems. Could you talk about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, how did you find that out? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I actually saw a nomination that you had, and that was listed, so I thought I’d ask you about that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.71564088045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Interestingly enough, as I recall, that was a Saturday morning, if I’m not mistaken. I was going to come in. I was still on General Howell’s staff. But he’d just taken over, and I wasn’t sure whether I could still get into--I usually used my badge to get into the Director’s suite there. I wasn’t sure it was still good, because he was still manipulating his staff. So I decided to watch it from home, and that’s where I saw it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you heard that they had lost communication with the Shuttle, did you come on-site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I came on-site immediately. Actually, you know, it was one of the first times I had not been in the Director’s suite looking at all the displays, most of which had to do with thermal protection systems, because that’s what I came from. I’d always worried that the next accident wouldn’t be a launch; it would be an entry. But I also knew the tiles were pretty robust. But I didn’t know that we’d even been having a trend with this ET [External Tank] bipod, which is not factory-laid foam.\\n\\n So I immediately came in. You know, a couple of weeks later, they were interested in doing tile repair, so I had worked on that back in 1978, ’79. I brought in all the papers and documents I had on that and gave those to Engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you play any role at all in the investigation or the recovery efforts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only from a resource point of view. I knew a lot, still knew a lot, of the people in the field, so I provided some names and addresses to the CAIB [Columbia Accident Investigation Board] on an Excel spreadsheet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve changed positions quite a bit lately. In the fall of 2003, you were promoted to be the Deputy Associate Director for Biological Sciences and Applications. What did that require?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.4618232005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I came on-site immediately. Actually, you know, it was one of the first times I had not been in the Director’s suite looking at all the displays, most of which had to do with thermal protection systems, because that’s what I came from. I’d always worried that the next accident wouldn’t be a launch; it would be an entry. But I also knew the tiles were pretty robust. But I didn’t know that we’d even been having a trend with this ET [External Tank] bipod, which is not factory-laid foam.\\n\\n So I immediately came in. You know, a couple of weeks later, they were interested in doing tile repair, so I had worked on that back in 1978, ’79. I brought in all the papers and documents I had on that and gave those to Engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you play any role at all in the investigation or the recovery efforts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only from a resource point of view. I knew a lot, still knew a lot, of the people in the field, so I provided some names and addresses to the CAIB [Columbia Accident Investigation Board] on an Excel spreadsheet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve changed positions quite a bit lately. In the fall of 2003, you were promoted to be the Deputy Associate Director for Biological Sciences and Applications. What did that require?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went from being a staff position to a line manager. This was an opportunity for me. I felt, if I was going to continue a career with NASA, that I needed to get back into line management experience. So Space and Life Sciences took a very successful Cellular Biotechnology Program that had been flying on the Shuttle and on Mir, and decided to put it into a new division. They brought in, as the new director, Dr. Neal [R.] Pellis, who was the principal investigator on this and also had been the chief scientist for Space Station at NASA Headquarters [Washington, D.C.], and asked me to be his deputy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of your job duties?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 16.068692445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only from a resource point of view. I knew a lot, still knew a lot, of the people in the field, so I provided some names and addresses to the CAIB [Columbia Accident Investigation Board] on an Excel spreadsheet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve changed positions quite a bit lately. In the fall of 2003, you were promoted to be the Deputy Associate Director for Biological Sciences and Applications. What did that require?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went from being a staff position to a line manager. This was an opportunity for me. I felt, if I was going to continue a career with NASA, that I needed to get back into line management experience. So Space and Life Sciences took a very successful Cellular Biotechnology Program that had been flying on the Shuttle and on Mir, and decided to put it into a new division. They brought in, as the new director, Dr. Neal [R.] Pellis, who was the principal investigator on this and also had been the chief scientist for Space Station at NASA Headquarters [Washington, D.C.], and asked me to be his deputy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of your job duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my first job duty was to implement the Quality Management System [QMS]. Now you’re starting to get into management, you know. [Laughter] So that meant QMS has with it certain standard requirements --developing metrics, our reporting packages, you know, safety laboratory inspections, budget, outreach, communications with Headquarters, all of the above."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a change from your engineering duties early on in your career."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.18743605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went from being a staff position to a line manager. This was an opportunity for me. I felt, if I was going to continue a career with NASA, that I needed to get back into line management experience. So Space and Life Sciences took a very successful Cellular Biotechnology Program that had been flying on the Shuttle and on Mir, and decided to put it into a new division. They brought in, as the new director, Dr. Neal [R.] Pellis, who was the principal investigator on this and also had been the chief scientist for Space Station at NASA Headquarters [Washington, D.C.], and asked me to be his deputy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of your job duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my first job duty was to implement the Quality Management System [QMS]. Now you’re starting to get into management, you know. [Laughter] So that meant QMS has with it certain standard requirements --developing metrics, our reporting packages, you know, safety laboratory inspections, budget, outreach, communications with Headquarters, all of the above."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a change from your engineering duties early on in your career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I actually used my engineering duties. It was a good marriage, because Dr. Pellis, he was the scientist. He’s the cell biologist, an immunologist. But our major task was not just doing the research--we had fifty university researchers on grants--but building a new Space Station facility called the BTF, the Biotech Facility. That was a major, multimillion-dollar project with Wyle, so while that was in process, we had a lot of project management reviews, budget reviews, hardware reviews. So in terms of the QMS, those are the things that Neal would sort of push off at me. They were all engineering-type things, so I was able to use my engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the other assignments that you had after working on QMS?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.4304845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my first job duty was to implement the Quality Management System [QMS]. Now you’re starting to get into management, you know. [Laughter] So that meant QMS has with it certain standard requirements --developing metrics, our reporting packages, you know, safety laboratory inspections, budget, outreach, communications with Headquarters, all of the above."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a change from your engineering duties early on in your career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I actually used my engineering duties. It was a good marriage, because Dr. Pellis, he was the scientist. He’s the cell biologist, an immunologist. But our major task was not just doing the research--we had fifty university researchers on grants--but building a new Space Station facility called the BTF, the Biotech Facility. That was a major, multimillion-dollar project with Wyle, so while that was in process, we had a lot of project management reviews, budget reviews, hardware reviews. So in terms of the QMS, those are the things that Neal would sort of push off at me. They were all engineering-type things, so I was able to use my engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the other assignments that you had after working on QMS?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’ll tell you, that’s a big one. Well, gosh, you know, kind of day-to-day--that’s a big assignment. The rest is day-to-day, you know, budget, management, personnel, everything a manager works on to get a project developed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, you’ve since moved on. You’re now the Associate Director for Technology Integration and Risk Management."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00141:98", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fire and collision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just wondering, your impressions of Mir from the first time to the second time you were there, and what maybe some of the differences were with the Station itself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, there was another module on board by the time we went back, and one that was closed up. [Laughs] So it looked different from a configuration point of view, but it looked pretty familiar inside, except the U.S.-outfitted module was new. I can’t say there was a big difference. It was the same vehicle. Sometimes it had the same smell. I couldn’t tell, from a physical point of view, the biggest difference. Does that make sense?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I was just curious.\n\nIs there anything you think we should talk about that we haven’t covered? I know we’ve had four sessions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four sessions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they’ve spanned quite a length of time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00386:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.3498563609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Sure. [Tape change.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think this is a good, just a contrast, since, like you said, you did see both sides and watched everything evolve."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does make me mad at the politicians, though, when they all take credit for the economy. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially around election-time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're taking credit for everything good that's going on."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00386:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 41.499840401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does make me mad at the politicians, though, when they all take credit for the economy. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially around election-time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're taking credit for everything good that's going on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're breaking their elbows patting themselves on the back. But I guess that's the way is it. So what else would you like?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First, I'm going to ask Kevin if he has any questions, and then I'll follow-up with a couple.\n\nI did have one sort of a general question. You'd mentioned at the beginning that you basically grew up with the space program, you came in when you were very young and have been a part of it all your life. So I guess what I was wondering is, how did you personally change going through this as you entered it as a young man and grew with experience in time? And then how did the agency change going through that same sort of life cycle?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00386:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 22.561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I hope so. But somebody's going to have to take it as his job to make it work, to make it happen. It won't just appear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can't come by itself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It won't just come by itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, looking back over your whole career with the space program, what would you consider—and I know you've had many—your biggest challenge? And then in retrospect also your most significant accomplishment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Biggest challenge. Well, I mean, it's hard to pick one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can understand that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00386:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. They all did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier that, looking back, you probably wouldn't have changed much, wouldn't have done things much differently, but looking back, would you have imagined where your career would lead you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From when you first started at Lewis."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, absolutely, I mean, even when we got involved, even when I got involved in the Mercury project, I mean, I had just not stopped to think about where it was going to lead. I mean, we had a couple of flights scheduled, orbital flights, four or five, for the Mercury project, and I must admit, I mean, it's a symptom of youth, perhaps, but I wasn't terribly engaged in thinking about what's going to happen after this. I mean, I just don't recall being very occupied with that. We were so involved in the doing of this exciting thing that we had called Project Mercury, that I didn't give very much thought to what was going to come after that.\\n\\n Then the next major challenges over the next couple of decades of my life were just handed to us, I mean, the \"Go to the Moon\" from President [John F.] Kennedy, which then led us to Gemini and Apollo and all that, and then the Shuttle decision was made in the seventies, as was the decision to do the Apollo-Soyuz project. Then the Space Station decision. So those were all kind of decisions made by other people out of my hands, but that created a future that I have worked in for forty years. But on the front end I had no imaginings of anything like it turned out to be. Just absolutely none.\\n\\n I mean, had I written down what happened and written it down in 1960, saying this is what's going to happen, we all would have laughed at it, saying it can't be like that. But that's the way it turned out. So I was lucky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are very lucky to have you come in and share so many of your thoughts and your experiences with us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00386:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From when you first started at Lewis."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, absolutely, I mean, even when we got involved, even when I got involved in the Mercury project, I mean, I had just not stopped to think about where it was going to lead. I mean, we had a couple of flights scheduled, orbital flights, four or five, for the Mercury project, and I must admit, I mean, it's a symptom of youth, perhaps, but I wasn't terribly engaged in thinking about what's going to happen after this. I mean, I just don't recall being very occupied with that. We were so involved in the doing of this exciting thing that we had called Project Mercury, that I didn't give very much thought to what was going to come after that.\\n\\n Then the next major challenges over the next couple of decades of my life were just handed to us, I mean, the \"Go to the Moon\" from President [John F.] Kennedy, which then led us to Gemini and Apollo and all that, and then the Shuttle decision was made in the seventies, as was the decision to do the Apollo-Soyuz project. Then the Space Station decision. So those were all kind of decisions made by other people out of my hands, but that created a future that I have worked in for forty years. But on the front end I had no imaginings of anything like it turned out to be. Just absolutely none.\\n\\n I mean, had I written down what happened and written it down in 1960, saying this is what's going to happen, we all would have laughed at it, saying it can't be like that. But that's the way it turned out. So I was lucky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are very lucky to have you come in and share so many of your thoughts and your experiences with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you, Carol. It's been fun doing it. I appreciate the opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's been a lot of fun for us, too."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00010:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 44.85047247183692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I guess most organizations do some soul searching to start with. They figure out why do they exist, what are they supposed to be doing. For those of us in government, it can be clear because our mission and what we're supposed to be doing is defined by law and by regulation. So, then a strategic plan says, okay, this is the basis, this is what we're supposed to be doing, what are our goals and how are we going to get there? So, you establish goals, as far as I know there are usually 4 or 5 goals, and then you establish pathways, or initiatives to get you there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first got to the National Archives, what kind-of training did you receive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very much hands on, person-to-person, kind-of training. I don't remember at first going to any training classes, although I was sent to some national conferences and in my experience at the National Archives, up till the recent budget problems, NARA was very good about sending people to a professional conference, maybe once a year, and then sometimes maybe something else that you're interested in as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which conferences have you attended? Which ones have you liked, can you speak more to the conferences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well for archivists, the main one is the SAA, the Society of American Archivists annual conference. It's our colleagues, it's our professionals, traditionally it's a lot of private corporations and academic, a lot of academic. In the last five years or so they've recognized they have a lot of government archivists too, so they actually are doing more to take advantage of that knowledge that we have, and the increase in that population. We also around the country have local archival groups, I'm a member of MARAC the Mid-Atlantic Regional Archives Conference. Today people tend to go more to, they go to those, but they also do more technical things like IT conferences and yes, that's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What successes come to mind when you think of your time here?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00010:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 41.00638165259534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. So, with those records systems analysis and every day when either the appraisal archivist or the people at Suitland, at the Federal Records Center, talk to people in Federal agencies, people always want to do the right thing. They care about the work they're doing. They care about doing it to the best of their ability, but also being aware of the budget and tax payer dollars being spent. So, again, I'm really proud to be a Federal employee and to know that this is a service. It's Federal service, and nobody went into Federal service to get rich. A few of us managed to get higher grades and do okay, but that's not why we went into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that transitions perfectly into my next question. What aspects of the work do you enjoy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the cliché, I'm a people person, so I always like the part where I'm interacting either with my colleagues, or with the people at the Federal agencies, or our customers, our researchers. Either online or I've worked more with the people who come into the actual research rooms. In one of my lives here I was the Director of Access Programs, that's pre-transformation. And so, I would get involved as there were problems, and sometimes when there were praise. When we had visitors, people wanting tours, I got to do that and I love that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For clarification, could you just go through the different positions that you've held here and describe what they were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind-of like an oral resume. Or, you have a paper."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00010:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.025083663729001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Glad I can help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which I don't always stick to but can you describe a typical day in your unit? So, this one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As Chief of Staff there are certain things that I do or coordinate. Policy, for instance, when NARA is developing new policy and it has to be vetted by the different offices, I get involved with that. I've been the coordinator for so many of the initiatives that come and hopefully go, like plain language and hiring exceptions. And another big area is internal controls. NARA has in the last couple of years really invigorated its internal controls program, so I coordinate those reports with the five programs within Agency Services. And, oh, strategic planning. What are we going to do next year, what are we going to do the year after that—I work with the five program offices and Agency Services on that. And then I'm just here whenever something comes up. So, I'm on the National Safety and Health Committee. And it was really important to be active in that because most of the accidents happen in the Records Centers, so I wanted to be part of the group that was looking at, okay, we need to work on ladder safety, we need to get better ladders. We need to train people. This year in 2015 the emphasis is on lifting, so how do we get the videos and the training out to the people? I've also been involved in the continuity of operations planning as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some accidents that have happened, increase the need for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as it turned out, we had bought ladders some time ago, I don't remember how many years ago, that had a flaw in the welding. So, as people were stepping on the ladder with a box that weighs 50-60 pounds, the step would break, so people would fall off the ladder with the box. We also have bad habits. When you work in the Records Center sometimes you know you could just kind-of climb up one or two steps, or one or two shelves and put that box on the shelf. The shelves aren't designed to be climbed on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds terrifying."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00010:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.8457823009, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as it turned out, we had bought ladders some time ago, I don't remember how many years ago, that had a flaw in the welding. So, as people were stepping on the ladder with a box that weighs 50-60 pounds, the step would break, so people would fall off the ladder with the box. We also have bad habits. When you work in the Records Center sometimes you know you could just kind-of climb up one or two steps, or one or two shelves and put that box on the shelf. The shelves aren't designed to be climbed on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds terrifying."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I first started at Suitland, I didn't have ladder training, and the shelving is 15 feet tall, the ladders are 15 feet tall, except you're not supposed to stand on the top one and I kind-of did to get the box where it needed to go, and I was scared to death and then I realized later, that was the wrong thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So, I could have been one of those statistics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A theme that's come up, moving away from dangers in the Archives, a theme that's come up repeatedly is the transition to newer technologies in the 21st century and more digitization of records and then also records that come in digitally that were never on paper. Can you speak to technological changes over the course of your time at NARA?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00010:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.482369, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you? Excellent. Excellent. And now it's such a part of what we do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the response to the first blog post ever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was more of an excitement that we did it, you know? It was not that big a deal in terms of content, but we did get it out to agencies and they saw it. It was really a big deal because our head of security was really anti-doing it. And then the lawyers, I forget what you call it, but there's a whole bunch of legal requirements for doing something like this, to use different software, or permissions and things like that. So, it was really a barrier that we broke through. And then it just kind- of exploded with people doing blogs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you view the progression of that online outreach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it's very critical. As we know, as I've been told and as we know, we reach far more people online then we do people walking through the door or even attending conferences. And I guess now we transitioned to digitization. I'm a real proponent of appropriate digitization. And I'll stop there on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What exactly does that mean though? I'm supposed to ask clarification of terms."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00010:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.6449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it's very critical. As we know, as I've been told and as we know, we reach far more people online then we do people walking through the door or even attending conferences. And I guess now we transitioned to digitization. I'm a real proponent of appropriate digitization. And I'll stop there on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What exactly does that mean though? I'm supposed to ask clarification of terms."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course. In our strategic plan it says we will digitize everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if we accept that that is a stretch goal, I'm perfectly content with it. I do know that we have many permanent records that should be the last thing we digitize, you know? There are limited resources and finances and we should certainly digitize the things that the public wants and asks for— the things we think they will want and ask for, but I'm not a proponent of digitize everything just because we can, because I don't think we can without perhaps taking our resources away from something else that's needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are the priorities for what to digitize? Like both in your opinion and with the strategic plan?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00010:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course. In our strategic plan it says we will digitize everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if we accept that that is a stretch goal, I'm perfectly content with it. I do know that we have many permanent records that should be the last thing we digitize, you know? There are limited resources and finances and we should certainly digitize the things that the public wants and asks for— the things we think they will want and ask for, but I'm not a proponent of digitize everything just because we can, because I don't think we can without perhaps taking our resources away from something else that's needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are the priorities for what to digitize? Like both in your opinion and with the strategic plan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't speak to what's in the strategic plan. I can speak to what I think the priorities are. I think our mission is to preserve the records that document citizen's rights, provide government accountability, and document the national experience. So those would be my priorities for what should be digitized. The next priority would be what we know are going to be heavily used. Which, when you come down to it, is either citizen's rights or genealogy. They are the big drivers. We have perhaps thousands of cubic feet of NEH grants, National Endowment for the Humanities grants, I don't really think we need to digitize them. We can digitize them on demand if somebody asks for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are, you've mentioned a few, but what are some challenges that you've faced here?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00010:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there's the big one, which comes back to digitization perhaps. The primacy of the web over in person research. Traditionally people come to the Archives to do research, and the focus and the attention was going to improve the experience of people who came into our buildings. Now we have recognized and addressed that by really building up our web presence and having our digitization strategies to try to get records digitized and online and make doing research online more possible. So that's another major change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you view your time at the archives over all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think what we do is so important, I think well, when I would teach classes, records management classes at Archives I, and in a break, I’d take some of the people who came from EPA or Agriculture, or whatever, and I was like, come with me. And we'd walk around the corner from the conference rooms, and there we were in the Rotunda. And there was the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. How cool is that, you know? I feel like I have ownership of that because it's our responsibility to take care of those. And then you have to realize that yes, those are our Charters of Freedom, but so many records today are being created that need to be taken care of and preserved. So maybe somebody there will be another Star Trek episode where they'll find an abandoned spacecraft and it will have a copy of, maybe it won't be the Constitution, but it will be some other declaration of rights or something, you know? Something really cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That just gave me chills."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much for your time."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00010:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think what we do is so important, I think well, when I would teach classes, records management classes at Archives I, and in a break, I’d take some of the people who came from EPA or Agriculture, or whatever, and I was like, come with me. And we'd walk around the corner from the conference rooms, and there we were in the Rotunda. And there was the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. How cool is that, you know? I feel like I have ownership of that because it's our responsibility to take care of those. And then you have to realize that yes, those are our Charters of Freedom, but so many records today are being created that need to be taken care of and preserved. So maybe somebody there will be another Star Trek episode where they'll find an abandoned spacecraft and it will have a copy of, maybe it won't be the Constitution, but it will be some other declaration of rights or something, you know? Something really cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That just gave me chills."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much for your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you're welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations again on your retirement."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00010:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much for your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you're welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations again on your retirement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is there anything you would like to add to the interview, such as anecdotes, words of wisdom?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00010:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you're welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations again on your retirement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is there anything you would like to add to the interview, such as anecdotes, words of wisdom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, well thank you again."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 19.157491280675345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Healdsburg, California. And we're in a motel here. And I'm interviewing Kathleen Snyder Cox, who was a Peace Corps volunteer in Honduras from 1971 to 1973 in a public health program. Today is March 2nd, 2017. Hi, Kathleen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very good to meet you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nice to meet you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, Kathleen, I'd like to know, before we talk about what you did in the Peace Corps, who were you, who you were before you joined the Peace Corps? Where were you born?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.619434756305939, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very good to meet you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nice to meet you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, Kathleen, I'd like to know, before we talk about what you did in the Peace Corps, who were you, who you were before you joined the Peace Corps? Where were you born?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Portland, Oregon, but my family lived in Vancouver, Washington, which is across the Columbia River from Portland. So I was, the hospital was in Portland, but my family lived in Vancouver."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you grew up in Vancouver then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.799371951451043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nice to meet you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, Kathleen, I'd like to know, before we talk about what you did in the Peace Corps, who were you, who you were before you joined the Peace Corps? Where were you born?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Portland, Oregon, but my family lived in Vancouver, Washington, which is across the Columbia River from Portland. So I was, the hospital was in Portland, but my family lived in Vancouver."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you grew up in Vancouver then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, until I was 12 when we moved to Southern California, and then we moved back to Eastern Washington, to Pullman, when I was a junior in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, boy. Okay, so you have three distinct segments of your childhood. And who was in your family? Did you have siblings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.900459199322275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, until I was 12 when we moved to Southern California, and then we moved back to Eastern Washington, to Pullman, when I was a junior in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, boy. Okay, so you have three distinct segments of your childhood. And who was in your family? Did you have siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm the oldest of seven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my brother and I are only ten months apart. And then my sister is 13 months younger than my brother. And my next sister is 12 months younger than the one before her. So for a period of a month when my mother had a two, had two two year olds, a one year old and a new baby, and then after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Someone needs to give your mother a hug."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.778287999246972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm the oldest of seven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my brother and I are only ten months apart. And then my sister is 13 months younger than my brother. And my next sister is 12 months younger than the one before her. So for a period of a month when my mother had a two, had two two year olds, a one year old and a new baby, and then after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Someone needs to give your mother a hug."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After that, the last three were more spread out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Wow. So you and your siblings were very close?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.753653332496635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my brother and I are only ten months apart. And then my sister is 13 months younger than my brother. And my next sister is 12 months younger than the one before her. So for a period of a month when my mother had a two, had two two year olds, a one year old and a new baby, and then after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Someone needs to give your mother a hug."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After that, the last three were more spread out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Wow. So you and your siblings were very close?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were very close. We still are very close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Good. And you still got them all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.041547324069919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were very close. We still are very close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Good. And you still got them all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father was, both of my parents were teachers. And my father went in, then became an administrator. My mother, when she started having kids, didn't work anymore outside the home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, she sure did work at home. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But your parents both had a college education."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.379497026744353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father was, both of my parents were teachers. And my father went in, then became an administrator. My mother, when she started having kids, didn't work anymore outside the home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, she sure did work at home. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But your parents both had a college education."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so you went to public schools?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.165823848109056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when they got married, in those days, you know, you had to sign papers saying that the children would be raised Catholic. And so they, but they really were committed to public education. And in those days, people were told from the pulpit that was a sin to send your kids to public school. But they were committed to public education, except for, and we all went straight through public schools, except for one year when we had moved to Southern California. My dad went down like, I don't know, I think probably in September. And my mother stayed in Vancouver to sell the house with the seven kids and didn't go down. We went down around Christmastime, but my dad couldn't find a house that was big enough for all of us in Inglewood, which was where he had the job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so he bought a duplex that was being built and had a door cut through it so that we lived in both halves of this duplex that was in Lenox, which, and the house was right directly under the flight path of LAX."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a real, um, the schools were terrible. So we went to school there for a year and a half and then they put us one year in Catholic school until, and then they found a house in Inglewood and we moved into Inglewood and went just one year to the Inglewood schools. And then we moved back to eastern Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I'm, I'm trying to imagine your mother moving from Vancouver down to the Los Angeles area. There was eight people. How would you, you can't?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.962026497898951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so he bought a duplex that was being built and had a door cut through it so that we lived in both halves of this duplex that was in Lenox, which, and the house was right directly under the flight path of LAX."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a real, um, the schools were terrible. So we went to school there for a year and a half and then they put us one year in Catholic school until, and then they found a house in Inglewood and we moved into Inglewood and went just one year to the Inglewood schools. And then we moved back to eastern Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I'm, I'm trying to imagine your mother moving from Vancouver down to the Los Angeles area. There was eight people. How would you, you can't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were nine. Nine. Well, yeah, there were eight people, nine with my dad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. But if your dad wasn't, but he wasn't there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.846696108776612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a real, um, the schools were terrible. So we went to school there for a year and a half and then they put us one year in Catholic school until, and then they found a house in Inglewood and we moved into Inglewood and went just one year to the Inglewood schools. And then we moved back to eastern Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I'm, I'm trying to imagine your mother moving from Vancouver down to the Los Angeles area. There was eight people. How would you, you can't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were nine. Nine. Well, yeah, there were eight people, nine with my dad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. But if your dad wasn't, but he wasn't there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he came home and then we, uh, when we actually did the move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, he was part of it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.718551231974013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were nine. Nine. Well, yeah, there were eight people, nine with my dad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. But if your dad wasn't, but he wasn't there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he came home and then we, uh, when we actually did the move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, he was part of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But she was home for I think from September till December selling the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And taking care of babies."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.687279146637792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he came home and then we, uh, when we actually did the move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, he was part of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But she was home for I think from September till December selling the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And taking care of babies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And taking care of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Incredible. But I'm imagining taking vacations with ten people, well, wait, nine, nine people in the family. You'd have to have a bus."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.763643496264214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But she was home for I think from September till December selling the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And taking care of babies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And taking care of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Incredible. But I'm imagining taking vacations with ten people, well, wait, nine, nine people in the family. You'd have to have a bus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had those, you remember those three seater station wagons?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, with the way back. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.177337649708907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had those, you remember those three seater station wagons?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, with the way back. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the seat faced backwards, the back seat faced backwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah. And we did take vacations, you know, occasionally we went camping. We went. They would rent like a place at the beach for a weekend. We certainly never took any elaborate vacations. We never stayed in, we never went to a resort or a hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. But you went camping."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.330046481122107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah. And we did take vacations, you know, occasionally we went camping. We went. They would rent like a place at the beach for a weekend. We certainly never took any elaborate vacations. We never stayed in, we never went to a resort or a hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. But you went camping."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went camping a couple of times and rented places at the beach for weekends and visited. My dad's family came from Colorado and my mother's from Montana. So we visited there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Stayed with relatives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure. It actually, I'm an only child, and so I have to say that it sounds terrific."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.588940534580118, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went camping a couple of times and rented places at the beach for weekends and visited. My dad's family came from Colorado and my mother's from Montana. So we visited there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Stayed with relatives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure. It actually, I'm an only child, and so I have to say that it sounds terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was terrific for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Difficult for your mom, but how rich."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.430790783432244, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was terrific for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Difficult for your mom, but how rich."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was. We were never, ever bored."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We always had somebody to play with, especially the first four of us. And we're still very close. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. Yeah. So where were you when you went to high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.01332195485462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We always had somebody to play with, especially the first four of us. And we're still very close. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. Yeah. So where were you when you went to high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My freshman year was the year I went to a Catholic high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to St. Bernard's, which was in, um, well, it's just outside of Westchester in Southern California. And then we moved. Then we went, then I went one year to Inglewood High School, which was very traumatic because I actually had, I had loved that school, St. Bernard's, it was a new school. It was small. It was what they called co-institutional. So there were girls, there was, there were two wings, a girls' wing and a boys' wing. So we never saw each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not even for algebra?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.362125870190887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to St. Bernard's, which was in, um, well, it's just outside of Westchester in Southern California. And then we moved. Then we went, then I went one year to Inglewood High School, which was very traumatic because I actually had, I had loved that school, St. Bernard's, it was a new school. It was small. It was what they called co-institutional. So there were girls, there was, there were two wings, a girls' wing and a boys' wing. So we never saw each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not even for algebra?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. Nothing. So it was all girls and it was small. It was that each year they had started in each year and they added a year. And I think the year I was there, there were freshmen, sophomores, and juniors. And then, then so but I only got to go one year because then they bought the house in Inglewood and we had to go to the Inglewood schools and that was a school of 1,000 kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where I didn't know a soul and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's hard when you're sophomore in high school. The cliques have already formed and you're cutting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.624584300212096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. Nothing. So it was all girls and it was small. It was that each year they had started in each year and they added a year. And I think the year I was there, there were freshmen, sophomores, and juniors. And then, then so but I only got to go one year because then they bought the house in Inglewood and we had to go to the Inglewood schools and that was a school of 1,000 kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where I didn't know a soul and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's hard when you're sophomore in high school. The cliques have already formed and you're cutting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then my junior year we moved back to Pullman, Washington. So I actually changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, three different?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.413067037298882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then my junior year we moved back to Pullman, Washington. So I actually changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, three different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I changed schools in the middle of the sixth, the middle of the seventh, the end of the eighth, the end of the ninth and the end of the 10th grades."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Your family saved you, I think. I mean, that you might have been lonely at school, but."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.458963374776536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I changed schools in the middle of the sixth, the middle of the seventh, the end of the eighth, the end of the ninth and the end of the 10th grades."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Your family saved you, I think. I mean, that you might have been lonely at school, but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we had each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had each other when you went home, and you were all going through that, those transitions in the mid school year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.621070416418373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Your family saved you, I think. I mean, that you might have been lonely at school, but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we had each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had each other when you went home, and you were all going through that, those transitions in the mid school year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you, when you were in high school, did you have summer jobs or did you work part time during the school year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.80118935157597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we had each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had each other when you went home, and you were all going through that, those transitions in the mid school year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you, when you were in high school, did you have summer jobs or did you work part time during the school year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, when we, well, I always babysat from the time I was in the sixth grade, really, all of my, the four oldest ones. We were fabulous babysitters. We had, we were very much in demand. We babysat for $0.25 an hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not for your own siblings but for other people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.458258458735763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, when we, well, I always babysat from the time I was in the sixth grade, really, all of my, the four oldest ones. We were fabulous babysitters. We had, we were very much in demand. We babysat for $0.25 an hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not for your own siblings but for other people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For other people, because we had so much experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had always babysat. And then when we moved to Pullman, I got, uh, I worked in. Pullman is the home of Washington State University, so I had a job in the banquet halls. They would put on banquets and then they would hire high school kids to like bus tables and serve meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, sure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.842509398595292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For other people, because we had so much experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had always babysat. And then when we moved to Pullman, I got, uh, I worked in. Pullman is the home of Washington State University, so I had a job in the banquet halls. They would put on banquets and then they would hire high school kids to like bus tables and serve meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One summer, I worked in the admissions office filing. That was the most boring thing possible. And I think that's, that was it for high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in high school, did you study foreign languages?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.269454887328102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had always babysat. And then when we moved to Pullman, I got, uh, I worked in. Pullman is the home of Washington State University, so I had a job in the banquet halls. They would put on banquets and then they would hire high school kids to like bus tables and serve meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One summer, I worked in the admissions office filing. That was the most boring thing possible. And I think that's, that was it for high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in high school, did you study foreign languages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I studied Spanish as a freshman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a choice? Did you choose Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.345006033738397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I studied Spanish as a freshman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a choice? Did you choose Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really interesting. It was this Catholic school. And I remember my dad, my Jewish dad, took me to register. And you took placement tests. You had to take placement tests to get in. And they said, and according to how you placed, I guess, on the language part of the placement test, they, the high people were supposed to take Latin and then the second tier was French and the third tier was Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh dear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I really wanted. From the time we moved to Southern California, in Vancouver there were African American kids in the junior high that I went to, but there were no Latinos at all at the time. And I, my mother and I, my mother also was quite fascinated by the whole Mexican influence in Southern California. And I just loved that. And I really wanted to take Spanish and they were going to put me into Latin. And my dad said, no, she wants to take Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for him."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.272228926375996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really interesting. It was this Catholic school. And I remember my dad, my Jewish dad, took me to register. And you took placement tests. You had to take placement tests to get in. And they said, and according to how you placed, I guess, on the language part of the placement test, they, the high people were supposed to take Latin and then the second tier was French and the third tier was Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh dear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I really wanted. From the time we moved to Southern California, in Vancouver there were African American kids in the junior high that I went to, but there were no Latinos at all at the time. And I, my mother and I, my mother also was quite fascinated by the whole Mexican influence in Southern California. And I just loved that. And I really wanted to take Spanish and they were going to put me into Latin. And my dad said, no, she wants to take Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I did. So I took four years of high school Spanish and it was just so fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful, wonderful. And then you went to college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.302476584862218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I really wanted. From the time we moved to Southern California, in Vancouver there were African American kids in the junior high that I went to, but there were no Latinos at all at the time. And I, my mother and I, my mother also was quite fascinated by the whole Mexican influence in Southern California. And I just loved that. And I really wanted to take Spanish and they were going to put me into Latin. And my dad said, no, she wants to take Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I did. So I took four years of high school Spanish and it was just so fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful, wonderful. And then you went to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, after college, I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or after high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.607995783780515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, after college, I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or after high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After high school, I went into the convent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My one, my one year at the Catholic school. So I went in to this Catholic school that I had gone to. There were three different religious communities that taught there and each, uh, and we had home rooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now you're talking about your one year in Catholic school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.096291091087055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My one, my one year at the Catholic school. So I went in to this Catholic school that I had gone to. There were three different religious communities that taught there and each, uh, and we had home rooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now you're talking about your one year in Catholic school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One year. I think that if I had gone more, if I had gone to like six or even probably four years of Catholic school, I would have never gone into the convent. But my one year. So I became quite close with some of the nuns that, um, that like the community that I joined that one of them had taught me was my homeroom teacher. And then there was a drama and speech teacher who had been one of the Little Rascals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was fabulous. She was so good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the order?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.365791470477845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was fabulous. She was so good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the order?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Daughters of Mary and Joseph."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're a Belgian order, but all of the, most of the nuns that were here at the time were from Ireland. And they were young. They were very, you know, they were probably all under 33 at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow, what a vibrant bunch. And so you left Pullman, Washington, to come back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.406434967197605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Daughters of Mary and Joseph."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're a Belgian order, but all of the, most of the nuns that were here at the time were from Ireland. And they were young. They were very, you know, they were probably all under 33 at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow, what a vibrant bunch. And so you left Pullman, Washington, to come back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Palos Verdes was where that novitiate was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Okay. So for one year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.451594407997337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're a Belgian order, but all of the, most of the nuns that were here at the time were from Ireland. And they were young. They were very, you know, they were probably all under 33 at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow, what a vibrant bunch. And so you left Pullman, Washington, to come back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Palos Verdes was where that novitiate was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Okay. So for one year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. The novitiate was three years. And then, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During which you were doing what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.76899095747234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly we were going to college. Mostly we were taking theology and philosophy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did get to take one year of French because it was a Belgium community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, some things like music appreciation, but it was almost all. And we did have an English class. We went to Mount Saint Mary's College, which was near there. And then that was three years. And then you made vows, temporary vows for five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those were vows of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.838260441323875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, some things like music appreciation, but it was almost all. And we did have an English class. We went to Mount Saint Mary's College, which was near there. And then that was three years. And then you made vows, temporary vows for five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those were vows of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Poverty, chastity and obedience. And then we went to, still in Southern California, we were supposed to, you know, then go full time to college and, um, it was a teaching order in California. What they did was teach in Catholic schools, which I really did not want to teach in a Catholic school, because I had a real bias against, I mean, such a public education school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um. I was in what was called, that was called junior eight for one year. And then I was sent up to San Francisco to teach, never have, not having a BA, not having had any education classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is when, in the late 1960s?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.82028937924875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Poverty, chastity and obedience. And then we went to, still in Southern California, we were supposed to, you know, then go full time to college and, um, it was a teaching order in California. What they did was teach in Catholic schools, which I really did not want to teach in a Catholic school, because I had a real bias against, I mean, such a public education school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um. I was in what was called, that was called junior eight for one year. And then I was sent up to San Francisco to teach, never have, not having a BA, not having had any education classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is when, in the late 1960s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This would have been the late sixties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're wearing a habit."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.911432643609723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um. I was in what was called, that was called junior eight for one year. And then I was sent up to San Francisco to teach, never have, not having a BA, not having had any education classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is when, in the late 1960s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This would have been the late sixties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're wearing a habit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, we had a modified. Well, yes. When we went up there we had a habit and then while I was there, the habit changed and we were wearing street clothes, but we had a little veil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Little veil, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.790480715121914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This would have been the late sixties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're wearing a habit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, we had a modified. Well, yes. When we went up there we had a habit and then while I was there, the habit changed and we were wearing street clothes, but we had a little veil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Little veil, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I taught third grade at this school that was in the western addition in San Francisco, which before World War II had been a Japanese. It's where Japantown is in San Francisco, but all the Japanese had been interned and then the area had been, um, at the time that I was there, the neighborhood was pretty African American."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the Japanese people did not come back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.185778660644338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I taught third grade at this school that was in the western addition in San Francisco, which before World War II had been a Japanese. It's where Japantown is in San Francisco, but all the Japanese had been interned and then the area had been, um, at the time that I was there, the neighborhood was pretty African American."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the Japanese people did not come back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Their houses were gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So they then, actually that was in 19-. It must have been. Let's see, it must have been around 1969, '68 or '69 was when they were building Japantown. And so, but the school that I taught in was a Japanese mission. So it was a school for Japanese children and Japanese was taught there every day. There was a job. They got like a half an hour of Japanese a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these were kids who were born here in America?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.650865178493709, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Their houses were gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So they then, actually that was in 19-. It must have been. Let's see, it must have been around 1969, '68 or '69 was when they were building Japantown. And so, but the school that I taught in was a Japanese mission. So it was a school for Japanese children and Japanese was taught there every day. There was a job. They got like a half an hour of Japanese a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these were kids who were born here in America?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but their parents may not have been. Most of them, even their parents, most of their parents had been born here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. But there was a sense that there was a value to keeping alive the heritage of that language."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.1676279761041215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So they then, actually that was in 19-. It must have been. Let's see, it must have been around 1969, '68 or '69 was when they were building Japantown. And so, but the school that I taught in was a Japanese mission. So it was a school for Japanese children and Japanese was taught there every day. There was a job. They got like a half an hour of Japanese a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these were kids who were born here in America?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but their parents may not have been. Most of them, even their parents, most of their parents had been born here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. But there was a sense that there was a value to keeping alive the heritage of that language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How rare."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.741808862337913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but their parents may not have been. Most of them, even their parents, most of their parents had been born here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. But there was a sense that there was a value to keeping alive the heritage of that language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How rare."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was very. So I taught there for one year and I really hated it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.379787624819903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How rare."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was very. So I taught there for one year and I really hated it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was, and I was terrible. Oh, I was terrible. I didn't know what I was doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many kids did you have?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.088652916466558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was very. So I taught there for one year and I really hated it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was, and I was terrible. Oh, I was terrible. I didn't know what I was doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many kids did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had 38 third graders."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. They're about eight years old."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.882925811339587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were eight and there were three African Americans from the neighborhood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was one girl, little girl who was Filipina. Her mother was Filipina and her father was a Merchant Marine American, and everybody else was Japanese. And I knew I didn't know. I mean, the difference between me and other people like me was that because my parents were teachers and I had had a really good public school education, I knew that I was crap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the hardest thing? Was it disciplining the kids?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.536584234821763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was one girl, little girl who was Filipina. Her mother was Filipina and her father was a Merchant Marine American, and everybody else was Japanese. And I knew I didn't know. I mean, the difference between me and other people like me was that because my parents were teachers and I had had a really good public school education, I knew that I was crap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the hardest thing? Was it disciplining the kids?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. 38 kids is a lot."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.069857080026868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. 38 kids is a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "38 kids is a lot. Yeah. And I, yeah, I didn't know what I was doing. I mean, actually the kids did. It's amazing that kids learn in spite of their teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, the kids did learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think back to my first year teaching, I'd say exactly the same. They survived and they learned something I think."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.147971703736872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, the kids did learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think back to my first year teaching, I'd say exactly the same. They survived and they learned something I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. You know, I mean, they, well, they passed the tests and, you know, but I really hated it. So and I was living in a house where, um, I was 22. I might have been 23. Yeah, I think I was. I was 22 and everybody else, everybody in the house except for me was Irish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Ireland?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From Ireland, except for one nun who actually had been at the high school where I had gone to high school, who was getting her master's in theology at USF."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she lived, she shared the?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.7199685597076355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. You know, I mean, they, well, they passed the tests and, you know, but I really hated it. So and I was living in a house where, um, I was 22. I might have been 23. Yeah, I think I was. I was 22 and everybody else, everybody in the house except for me was Irish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Ireland?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From Ireland, except for one nun who actually had been at the high school where I had gone to high school, who was getting her master's in theology at USF."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she lived, she shared the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She shared the house, but she, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to cook? Did you take turns cooking?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.71601056754029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She shared the house, but she, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to cook? Did you take turns cooking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we had a cook. Well, except on weekends, yeah, but I didn't have any friends, you know, I was very lonely, really lonely. And it was quite difficult. And you know, you know, I mean there are huge cultural differences between growing up in Ireland and growing up in the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, so it was, it was hard. And then what happened was this nun who was getting her master's at USF had this vision that she, for nuns to be doing parish work rather than being just in hospitals and in schools. And she wanted them to really be part. Her idea was to be part of a team and a parish and work like the priests and plan the liturgies and do adult education and, you know, whatever needed to be done in the parish. So at that time, the Santa Rosa diocese had a reputation for being quite liberal, and the bishop did. And so she came. She came up to and made an appointment with, to talk to the bishop of the Santa Rosa diocese and the chancellor of the diocese, who is like the administrator, is my, is now my husband."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh! And he was a priest at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.240011741711434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we had a cook. Well, except on weekends, yeah, but I didn't have any friends, you know, I was very lonely, really lonely. And it was quite difficult. And you know, you know, I mean there are huge cultural differences between growing up in Ireland and growing up in the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, so it was, it was hard. And then what happened was this nun who was getting her master's at USF had this vision that she, for nuns to be doing parish work rather than being just in hospitals and in schools. And she wanted them to really be part. Her idea was to be part of a team and a parish and work like the priests and plan the liturgies and do adult education and, you know, whatever needed to be done in the parish. So at that time, the Santa Rosa diocese had a reputation for being quite liberal, and the bishop did. And so she came. She came up to and made an appointment with, to talk to the bishop of the Santa Rosa diocese and the chancellor of the diocese, who is like the administrator, is my, is now my husband."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh! And he was a priest at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was the priest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I love it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.822235268568259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, so it was, it was hard. And then what happened was this nun who was getting her master's at USF had this vision that she, for nuns to be doing parish work rather than being just in hospitals and in schools. And she wanted them to really be part. Her idea was to be part of a team and a parish and work like the priests and plan the liturgies and do adult education and, you know, whatever needed to be done in the parish. So at that time, the Santa Rosa diocese had a reputation for being quite liberal, and the bishop did. And so she came. She came up to and made an appointment with, to talk to the bishop of the Santa Rosa diocese and the chancellor of the diocese, who is like the administrator, is my, is now my husband."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh! And he was a priest at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was the priest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I love it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he was the one that she talked with first and he said, oh, that's a great idea. But what we really need, besides what she wanted to do, was somebody who, is somebody who would like to work with the Spanish speaking. And she knew I really, really wanted to do that. And so she came back and said, you know, do you want to do this? And I would have done anything to get out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Out of the classroom."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.503752083084032, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of the classroom, yes, yes. So, um, she, I went up there with her the next time and we met this Monsignor Cox and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Monsignor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Monsignor, and the bishop. And he said, you know, why don't you, why don't you work part time and go to school part. No, you couldn't, I wanted to get my BA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, you know, I mean, I was. And he said, you could go to school at night, and work during, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your work would be parish work, not classroom work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.115280092315591, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Monsignor, and the bishop. And he said, you know, why don't you, why don't you work part time and go to school part. No, you couldn't, I wanted to get my BA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, you know, I mean, I was. And he said, you could go to school at night, and work during, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your work would be parish work, not classroom work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So maybe that would be doable."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.794755658128434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, you know, I mean, I was. And he said, you could go to school at night, and work during, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your work would be parish work, not classroom work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So maybe that would be doable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Teaching and going to school at the same time is very, very difficult. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.086084579051349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I wrote to the superior general and said, you know, I wanted to do this. And she said, um, you know, I really had only been in community one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She said, no, you haven't been in community long enough. You need to, uh, you can't go off by yourself. I mean, this, this woman, this nun, her name was Karen. Her idea was that we would rent a tract house in a neighborhood and live with the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was like, no, you can't do this. So I wrote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But Monsignor said."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.984538421168164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She said, no, you haven't been in community long enough. You need to, uh, you can't go off by yourself. I mean, this, this woman, this nun, her name was Karen. Her idea was that we would rent a tract house in a neighborhood and live with the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was like, no, you can't do this. So I wrote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But Monsignor said."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I wrote back and told her all the reasons why I didn't really want to stay in third grade, why I was really, how difficult it was. And so she said, okay, you've got three choices. You can go to school full time and get your BA. You can go up to Santa Rosa or you could teach a higher grade. You probably need to teach a higher grade level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Junior high. That's the absolute worst."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.099890902557787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I went back up to Santa Rosa and Monsignor Cox talked me into, you know, doing the work up there and getting my BA, which I did do in, I think it was. I mean, I had gone, I had done, besides all the theology and philosophy, I'd had one year full of full-time school and then a summer school. Two summer schools, I think. So it took me I think another two years going at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At night?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I only went once or twice a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's an hour, about an hour from Santa Rosa to San Francisco."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you finished up at, um, San Francisco?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.999878780619763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I only went once or twice a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's an hour, about an hour from Santa Rosa to San Francisco."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you finished up at, um, San Francisco?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I finished at USF, at the University of San Francisco, which is a Jesuit. It wasn't a good education compared to, you know, what my siblings did, but what the hell? I got the degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And your degree was in what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.999865311799736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's an hour, about an hour from Santa Rosa to San Francisco."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you finished up at, um, San Francisco?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I finished at USF, at the University of San Francisco, which is a Jesuit. It wasn't a good education compared to, you know, what my siblings did, but what the hell? I got the degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And your degree was in what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in sociology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aha. Not education."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.110961457555263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I finished at USF, at the University of San Francisco, which is a Jesuit. It wasn't a good education compared to, you know, what my siblings did, but what the hell? I got the degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And your degree was in what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in sociology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aha. Not education."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not education, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, sociology could be sort of anything."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.717236367352175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not education, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, sociology could be sort of anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I really wanted to do, I mean, that was just so fascinating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. And I did really love studying it. It was really interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you wind up in the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.241373741502416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I really wanted to do, I mean, that was just so fascinating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. And I did really love studying it. It was really interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you wind up in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I worked in Santa Rosa for three years and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And doing sort of community social work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.823748601669351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. And I did really love studying it. It was really interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you wind up in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I worked in Santa Rosa for three years and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And doing sort of community social work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In this, yeah, in this parish. And so the way it worked out was we did have this house and we had a little house in this kind of blue collar neighborhood that was, and we had two parishes. I was, so at the, so Gerry Cox, my husband, was the only priest in the entire Santa Rosa diocese, which goes from Santa Rosa to the Oregon border and includes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's huge."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.808982992687723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Napa, Lakes, Sonoma, Mendocino, Trinity and Del Norte Counties. Geographically huge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Enormous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he was the only priest in the diocese that spoke Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, um, he. And he had just been, he left the chancery office and was, had just gotten at his parish, which instead of building a church, he built what he called Resurrection Community Center, which was this multipurpose building that had stacked chairs that you could and an altar on wheels. And but a lot of, um, very modern, but very kind of spiritual building. But you could use it for everything. So I worked with him and then the other nun worked in this more traditional parish. So I stayed there for three years and he actually only stayed for one year. And then he became the head of Catholic Social Service. And so at the end of three years, there were two things that happened. I always say there were two things that just made it clear to me that I was going to leave.\n\nAnd the first one was there was this, there was a terrible earthquake, a seven point, I think it was a seven point earthquake in Santa Rosa in, must have been like 1968, '68 or '69. Yes, it must have been '69 because it was in the spring and it was like about 7:00 at night. And I was in a house in a discussion group with all married couples. And this earthquake happened and the power went out. And the house where we were, the woman had a glass, an antique glass collection. And there was just this glass crashing, flying. And the ground was literally felt like the ocean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you're showing with your hands the undulating."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.37796523805475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was literally, I've never been so scared. It's the scariest thing I've ever experienced. And all these married couples grabbed on to each other and I was standing there by myself and I said, no, this is not what I want. I do not want to be standing alone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alone, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was very clear to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You needed a partner."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.531072486727501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was very clear to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You needed a partner."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I needed a partner. Yeah. And the other thing that had had happened was that it was, you know, a time of great turmoil in the church. Radical changes going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Vatican II had just happened a few years before."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.478969429697223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You needed a partner."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I needed a partner. Yeah. And the other thing that had had happened was that it was, you know, a time of great turmoil in the church. Radical changes going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Vatican II had just happened a few years before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vatican II had happened. And the community that I belonged to, Belgian, Belgium was a very liberal church. And we had houses in England, Ireland, Belgium, Africa and California. And we were very avant garde, very liberal. We got out of, we were one of the first groups to not have a habit. We had started to do these other kinds of works, not just teach, but it was very hard for a lot of the nuns, for a lot of those Irish nuns, especially the older ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's not what they thought they signed up for."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.591320283576819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vatican II had happened. And the community that I belonged to, Belgian, Belgium was a very liberal church. And we had houses in England, Ireland, Belgium, Africa and California. And we were very avant garde, very liberal. We got out of, we were one of the first groups to not have a habit. We had started to do these other kinds of works, not just teach, but it was very hard for a lot of the nuns, for a lot of those Irish nuns, especially the older ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's not what they thought they signed up for."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And it wasn't their theology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had this meeting in the spring and every house was supposed to present a position paper about what did they see, what was their vision for the community. So there were four of us who were, there were three of us living together in Santa Rosa, doing this parish work. And another nun in Ukiah who was living with a different community but doing the same thing. So we came up with. We said that the essence of religious life is not poverty, chastity and obedience. It is community service and prayer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The community service part, the service part is what Peace Corps is all about."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.742370720465207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had this meeting in the spring and every house was supposed to present a position paper about what did they see, what was their vision for the community. So there were four of us who were, there were three of us living together in Santa Rosa, doing this parish work. And another nun in Ukiah who was living with a different community but doing the same thing. So we came up with. We said that the essence of religious life is not poverty, chastity and obedience. It is community service and prayer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The community service part, the service part is what Peace Corps is all about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And, well, it's community, comma, service and prayer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that we did not owe obedience to the bishop. That the obedience was, you know, anyway, it was. So I don't know why they decided I should be the one to present this paper. I was the youngest one in the house. And so anyway, you know, there was just. There was this nun that I had lived with when I was going, the one year that I went to college who was, she did the fundraising for the community. And she was like a, she was a John Birch Republican. And so we used to have these tremendous fights at the, um, at the dinner table, which because nobody else ever took her on, but you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you would."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.848911325202264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just became so clear to me that if I stay here, I am going to turn into a bitch because I am going to just be constantly fighting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't want to. I mean, I that's kind of who I, it's very easy for me and I'm not afraid of confrontation. I've never been afraid of confrontation. But I do not want to spend my life in confrontation and I don't want to spend my life fighting. And I don't need these women to live the life that I want to live. And if I stay here, why am I trying to convince them to do something they don't want to do when I don't need them?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I decided I was going to leave. Those two incidents. I decided I was going to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at this point, how old are you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.387679250224737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't want to. I mean, I that's kind of who I, it's very easy for me and I'm not afraid of confrontation. I've never been afraid of confrontation. But I do not want to spend my life in confrontation and I don't want to spend my life fighting. And I don't need these women to live the life that I want to live. And if I stay here, why am I trying to convince them to do something they don't want to do when I don't need them?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I decided I was going to leave. Those two incidents. I decided I was going to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at this point, how old are you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 25 when I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "25 when you left the convent."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 17.097421389138596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I decided I was going to leave. Those two incidents. I decided I was going to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at this point, how old are you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 25 when I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "25 when you left the convent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And went into the Peace Corps. And so I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then Monsignor Cox is wandering around here somewhere, and he must be going through similar questioning of his role."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.330468210153995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 25 when I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "25 when you left the convent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And went into the Peace Corps. And so I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then Monsignor Cox is wandering around here somewhere, and he must be going through similar questioning of his role."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he is 20 years older than I am. So I was 27, 25, and he was 45. And actually I had known that after I had been there about a month, he invited me. He was doing this. There was a fundraising campaign that was going on throughout the diocese, and he had to drive up 101 and take this these materials to all the parishes along 101 between Santa Rosa and the Oregon border. So he said, you know, would you like to come along and it will give you an idea of what the diocese is like? So, you know, we had this like three day car trip and, you know, I would stay in the convents and he would stay in the rectories. But we really got to know each other on that trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. As can only happen when you're driving in a car with another person, there's a unique opportunity to talk."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.867654641295523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he, I mean, I never thought anything would come of it. First of all, there was the huge age difference, and he was a priest. And I didn't have that. I didn't have any intention of leaving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I certainly never thought he would. But then around the time that I was thinking I was going to leave, he invited me. There was a series, it was like a kind of a theology philosophy one night a week lecture with people from all over the world that the Graduate Theological Union at Berkley was sponsoring. And he asked me if I would want to do that with him. And in the meantime, he was, yeah, he was also really struggling with like, is this, you know, is this what I want? Is this, is this the church I want to be part of? And so, um, actually, and one of the ones that we went to was on Paulo Freire, who turned out to be. When I got to Honduras, it was so fortuitous that I knew about Paulo Freire because the group that I worked with, he was their gospel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway, when we. We started going to that and one day we, um, he then. One day we stopped at Stinson Beach and took a walk on the beach. And all of a sudden the relationship was no longer just platonic. But even so, I didn't think he would leave the priesthood. I just couldn't, I mean, he had been ordained for 23 years and he had gone into the seminary after the, out of the eighth grade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So he had never had the high school sock hops, the dating."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.090200555102723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just sounded like it was cool, like a really interesting program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a third place, some place in New York I think, but I can't remember where. And I got accepted at all of them. And then I remembered the Peace Corps. And I thought, I don't. First I thought, oh, I'll go to this school at San Jose State. But then I thought, you know, my Spanish isn't really fluent, I'm not really bilingual. I'm going to be in there with all these Chicanos. I'm going to be the only Anglo. I don't really speak Spanish. I don't think, I think I should do that after the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I said, I would, I wanted to go to any Spanish speaking country. I didn't care where."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they asked you if you had a preference?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.766889505669692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a third place, some place in New York I think, but I can't remember where. And I got accepted at all of them. And then I remembered the Peace Corps. And I thought, I don't. First I thought, oh, I'll go to this school at San Jose State. But then I thought, you know, my Spanish isn't really fluent, I'm not really bilingual. I'm going to be in there with all these Chicanos. I'm going to be the only Anglo. I don't really speak Spanish. I don't think, I think I should do that after the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I said, I would, I wanted to go to any Spanish speaking country. I didn't care where."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they asked you if you had a preference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said any Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.407655006299658, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I said, I would, I wanted to go to any Spanish speaking country. I didn't care where."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they asked you if you had a preference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said any Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Latin American country, yeah. And I didn't even know where Honduras was. I had to look it up on the map."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, of course."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.119616673666286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said any Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Latin American country, yeah. And I didn't even know where Honduras was. I had to look it up on the map."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then I got this invitation before I left to, um. And I, and I decided I wasn't actually going to leave. I was just going to go into the Peace Corps. And I had a meeting with the woman who was, there was like a leadership team, and she was the person in the north. So I went to San Francisco and told her that I wanted to go into the Peace Corps and I wasn't formal. If they would give me permission, I was going to go into the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, you were asking permission of the order?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.91068519296254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Latin American country, yeah. And I didn't even know where Honduras was. I had to look it up on the map."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then I got this invitation before I left to, um. And I, and I decided I wasn't actually going to leave. I was just going to go into the Peace Corps. And I had a meeting with the woman who was, there was like a leadership team, and she was the person in the north. So I went to San Francisco and told her that I wanted to go into the Peace Corps and I wasn't formal. If they would give me permission, I was going to go into the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, you were asking permission of the order?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just telling them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still a?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.789650214402823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then I got this invitation before I left to, um. And I, and I decided I wasn't actually going to leave. I was just going to go into the Peace Corps. And I had a meeting with the woman who was, there was like a leadership team, and she was the person in the north. So I went to San Francisco and told her that I wanted to go into the Peace Corps and I wasn't formal. If they would give me permission, I was going to go into the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, you were asking permission of the order?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just telling them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was still a nun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A nun. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.28351878321336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was still a nun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A nun. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was actually the, um, my, the fifth year. It was time to take my final vows. But at that point, they didn't have everybody take their final vows automatically after five years. You took them, you take them when you wanted to. So I said I wasn't going to take my final vows, but I wasn't going to leave. But I was going to, I would go into the Peace Corps as a Daughter of Mary and Joseph."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she said okay. And so I went home. I left. My family lived in, my parents lived in Spokane. And I went, I think, like the middle of July, we were supposed to go report to Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this would be 1970?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.053726892856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she said okay. And so I went home. I left. My family lived in, my parents lived in Spokane. And I went, I think, like the middle of July, we were supposed to go report to Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this would be 1970?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "'71. July. Yeah. So I was home and I got a letter from them, from the superior, from the Mother Superior. The General. The Superior General she was called, saying Sister So-and-so has informed me that you're leaving. Here is your, when you went in you took a dowry of $500. It was called a dowry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's your dowry. That was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.504140992062222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'71. July. Yeah. So I was home and I got a letter from them, from the superior, from the Mother Superior. The General. The Superior General she was called, saying Sister So-and-so has informed me that you're leaving. Here is your, when you went in you took a dowry of $500. It was called a dowry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's your dowry. That was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was not what you had intended."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.44955678032373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was not what you had intended."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not what I had intended, but it was, you know, absolutely the best thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I would have dilly dallied around and, you know, been conflicted and. But I was incensed, you know, that they didn't even say, you know, we love you, or I mean, I'd been there eight years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Here's your 500 bucks."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.103644417453677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's your $500."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Goodbye."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, the thing was that I had been in the novitiate and then we only had three houses in San Francisco, so almost everybody was in Southern California, so they didn't really know me. But still anyway, so that was that. And then my thing with Gerry was, you know, we had said that we loved each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he's still a priest?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.535363478337873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he's still a priest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was still a priest. And then this, the people that were doing the school of social work got too radical and the school wouldn't let them do it. So his job that he thought he was going to at San Jose State no longer existed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he ended up. Let's see. So I left and I went to Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For Peace Corps training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.37262608704208, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was still a priest. And then this, the people that were doing the school of social work got too radical and the school wouldn't let them do it. So his job that he thought he was going to at San Jose State no longer existed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he ended up. Let's see. So I left and I went to Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For Peace Corps training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a Peace Corps training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we'll get, I want to get back to that. But meanwhile, what's happening with the monsignor?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.312244289495308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, so he was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what I'm going to do. And I was like, you know, whatever. You know, you need to do what you need to do. I didn't really think he would leave, and I didn't think he would, uh. And that was okay. I mean, I wasn't heartbroken. I loved him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, it was whatever. Whatever you decide to do is what you need to do. So I left and it was up in the air. And so my, so I went. My sister, who was two years younger than I, was going to school at this Fort Wright Holy Names College for Women in Spokane. And they had an Upward Bound program. And the two of us had worked as house mothers the previous summer. And it was just such a blast for these high school girls that were African Americans, Native Americans, and a few white, poor white kids. And then so I did that for about six weeks. And then Gerry came up to visit me, and at that point, he thought he was going to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You left to go to Peace Corps training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.7913825438836755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, it was whatever. Whatever you decide to do is what you need to do. So I left and it was up in the air. And so my, so I went. My sister, who was two years younger than I, was going to school at this Fort Wright Holy Names College for Women in Spokane. And they had an Upward Bound program. And the two of us had worked as house mothers the previous summer. And it was just such a blast for these high school girls that were African Americans, Native Americans, and a few white, poor white kids. And then so I did that for about six weeks. And then Gerry came up to visit me, and at that point, he thought he was going to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You left to go to Peace Corps training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left. Went to Florida. First, I went to New York to visit a friend. And then I went to, uh, left from Florida. And I was terrified."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, wait a minute. When you say left, when you say you left from Florida, was there, did the Peace Corps training group gather in Florida and then go together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.323758382092972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You left to go to Peace Corps training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left. Went to Florida. First, I went to New York to visit a friend. And then I went to, uh, left from Florida. And I was terrified."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, wait a minute. When you say left, when you say you left from Florida, was there, did the Peace Corps training group gather in Florida and then go together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, everybody just had their own. Everybody arrived individually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so you all met up together for the first time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.915287091214413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left. Went to Florida. First, I went to New York to visit a friend. And then I went to, uh, left from Florida. And I was terrified."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, wait a minute. When you say left, when you say you left from Florida, was there, did the Peace Corps training group gather in Florida and then go together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, everybody just had their own. Everybody arrived individually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so you all met up together for the first time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Puerto Rico, okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9990220729964507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I had, I got to, I remember I got to the airport in Miami at like 3:00 in the afternoon, and my plane didn't leave until, it left early in the morning. Like, I think I, I remember I got a hotel room at the airport. And I just sat in that hotel room and cried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was so scared. I was terrified."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought, if I pick up the phone and call Gerry, I won't go. So I cannot pick up this telephone. And then I got there, and for some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to Puerto Rico?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.332246747773834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was so scared. I was terrified."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought, if I pick up the phone and call Gerry, I won't go. So I cannot pick up this telephone. And then I got there, and for some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got the plane and got to Puerto Rico. And at the airport, I met this couple whose names I can't remember. And they were, they were also from California and they were teachers. And they said, oh, we have to go get a pina colada. I didn't even know what a pina colada was. And so then it was okay. As soon as I met them, it was okay. And I think we got there at night for some reason. We stayed. I remember it being night when we got there and we stayed overnight and then we went to Ponce. They must have picked us up together. They must have taken us together to Ponce."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the orientation and things began?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.702496386415371, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought, if I pick up the phone and call Gerry, I won't go. So I cannot pick up this telephone. And then I got there, and for some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got the plane and got to Puerto Rico. And at the airport, I met this couple whose names I can't remember. And they were, they were also from California and they were teachers. And they said, oh, we have to go get a pina colada. I didn't even know what a pina colada was. And so then it was okay. As soon as I met them, it was okay. And I think we got there at night for some reason. We stayed. I remember it being night when we got there and we stayed overnight and then we went to Ponce. They must have picked us up together. They must have taken us together to Ponce."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the orientation and things began?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything was in Ponce, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your whole training take place in the area of Ponce?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.113884873794857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got the plane and got to Puerto Rico. And at the airport, I met this couple whose names I can't remember. And they were, they were also from California and they were teachers. And they said, oh, we have to go get a pina colada. I didn't even know what a pina colada was. And so then it was okay. As soon as I met them, it was okay. And I think we got there at night for some reason. We stayed. I remember it being night when we got there and we stayed overnight and then we went to Ponce. They must have picked us up together. They must have taken us together to Ponce."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the orientation and things began?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything was in Ponce, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your whole training take place in the area of Ponce?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. And but I didn't stay the whole time because I did speak more Spanish than, even though I wasn't bilingual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had had a couple of years of Spanish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 5.078870214561551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. And but I didn't stay the whole time because I did speak more Spanish than, even though I wasn't bilingual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had had a couple of years of Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had four years of high school Spanish and a couple of years of college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really, really was motivated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. But there had been some, there had been some time lapse."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3319385364957426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really, really was motivated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. But there had been some, there had been some time lapse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But my Spanish was much better than anybody, than people who, other people. And there was another woman there, Linda Freed. She had grown up, she was, she had grown up in Ecuador. Her parents are Jewish Americans who had gone to Ecuador. She just, she's one of the few people that I'm still connected with. I think during World War II, and her father had a big, uh, something to do with cars and mechanics. And so she had grown up in Ecuador, so she was completely bilingual and we became good friends and she only stayed like maybe a month, and I stayed about six weeks. And then they sent us both into Honduras early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because the training, it sounds like the training was largely language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4799317072174918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But my Spanish was much better than anybody, than people who, other people. And there was another woman there, Linda Freed. She had grown up, she was, she had grown up in Ecuador. Her parents are Jewish Americans who had gone to Ecuador. She just, she's one of the few people that I'm still connected with. I think during World War II, and her father had a big, uh, something to do with cars and mechanics. And so she had grown up in Ecuador, so she was completely bilingual and we became good friends and she only stayed like maybe a month, and I stayed about six weeks. And then they sent us both into Honduras early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because the training, it sounds like the training was largely language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was largely language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that language was Spanish of course."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.644368563574991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because the training, it sounds like the training was largely language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was largely language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that language was Spanish of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What else went on in training in Ponce? And this is, I have to say, this is absolutely unique that some people get to finish training before others in a group. It's, I've never heard of that happening before."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8270761817499899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was largely language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that language was Spanish of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What else went on in training in Ponce? And this is, I have to say, this is absolutely unique that some people get to finish training before others in a group. It's, I've never heard of that happening before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, what, it was pretty interesting. When we first got there, all the girls, all the young women were in one house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many, how many people are we talking about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.5062773412208363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a pretty big group because it was nurses, foresters, fisher, fishing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, health. And most of them were nurses. I think there were four of us in this nutrition program. And then a pretty good group of foresters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say we were maybe 40, 40 or 50."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But what you had in common there was all the study of Spanish. Beyond that, people were going to be off into different, in terms of job training and preparation for your work."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6736414902453738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, health. And most of them were nurses. I think there were four of us in this nutrition program. And then a pretty good group of foresters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say we were maybe 40, 40 or 50."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But what you had in common there was all the study of Spanish. Beyond that, people were going to be off into different, in terms of job training and preparation for your work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there wasn't. So most of the time was language. After we were there for a week, everybody had to go out and knock on doors. They assigned you neighborhoods and you had to go knock on doors and find yourself a family to live with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, find yourself a family. Oh!"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.8596016558281931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say we were maybe 40, 40 or 50."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But what you had in common there was all the study of Spanish. Beyond that, people were going to be off into different, in terms of job training and preparation for your work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there wasn't. So most of the time was language. After we were there for a week, everybody had to go out and knock on doors. They assigned you neighborhoods and you had to go knock on doors and find yourself a family to live with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, find yourself a family. Oh!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, I couldn't believe that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After a week?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9551129509202148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there wasn't. So most of the time was language. After we were there for a week, everybody had to go out and knock on doors. They assigned you neighborhoods and you had to go knock on doors and find yourself a family to live with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, find yourself a family. Oh!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, I couldn't believe that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After a week?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After a, well, maybe it was two weeks. It must have been two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People who had less Spanish than you did, how did that work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.061236612133572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, I couldn't believe that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After a week?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After a, well, maybe it was two weeks. It must have been two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People who had less Spanish than you did, how did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I could do it, but I was like. I have to say, though, that language training was amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they do it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1791517912595242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After a, well, maybe it was two weeks. It must have been two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People who had less Spanish than you did, how did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I could do it, but I was like. I have to say, though, that language training was amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they must have gotten, they must have been given, you know, here's what you say when you. But literally just, and the people in the neighborhoods that they assigned us had had Peace Corps volunteers living with them before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So they knew."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3101686569550268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I could do it, but I was like. I have to say, though, that language training was amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they must have gotten, they must have been given, you know, here's what you say when you. But literally just, and the people in the neighborhoods that they assigned us had had Peace Corps volunteers living with them before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So they knew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were kind of primed, but they didn't give you addresses. They just said, you go to this neighborhood, you go to this neighborhood, you go to this neighborhood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were to go on your, on your own?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.61749216908028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were kind of primed, but they didn't give you addresses. They just said, you go to this neighborhood, you go to this neighborhood, you go to this neighborhood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were to go on your, on your own?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, married couples went together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Single people went on their own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whew. Wow. It's baptism by fire, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.797213521200311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, married couples went together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Single people went on their own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whew. Wow. It's baptism by fire, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whew. So. So what was your experience? You knocked on a door?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2187821249386555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whew. So. So what was your experience? You knocked on a door?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knocked on the door. And actually, the first door I knocked on. I was also slightly older than the other volunteers because most of them had just graduated from college and I was 25."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was like four years older than they were, three or four years older."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, we're in our seventies now and looking back at that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.4653134721540617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knocked on the door. And actually, the first door I knocked on. I was also slightly older than the other volunteers because most of them had just graduated from college and I was 25."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was like four years older than they were, three or four years older."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, we're in our seventies now and looking back at that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's the difference between 21 and 25? Not much, but in fact, there is a bit. And you'd been out in the world doing things."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6281260801711797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was like four years older than they were, three or four years older."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, we're in our seventies now and looking back at that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's the difference between 21 and 25? Not much, but in fact, there is a bit. And you'd been out in the world doing things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had been. I might. And my life experience was so, my adult life experience was so different than theirs because I hadn't gone to the college like they had. I was, you know, in love with a man that was 20 years older than I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And you had, you had a year of teaching under your belt."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8090289779679773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's the difference between 21 and 25? Not much, but in fact, there is a bit. And you'd been out in the world doing things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had been. I might. And my life experience was so, my adult life experience was so different than theirs because I hadn't gone to the college like they had. I was, you know, in love with a man that was 20 years older than I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And you had, you had a year of teaching under your belt."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had three years of social work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3855037006065802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I knocked on this door and this woman opened it and I, you know, I could communicate. I was pretty good. My grammar wasn't perfect, but I could, I could communicate. And I told her what I was looking for, and she said she was. Her children were grown and gone, except for one son who was might have been like 11. And it turned out that her husband, it was just so classic Latin America. She was dying to have me move in there because she really wanted company. And, you know, I could talk a little bit. I could talk and could understand her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it wasn't like getting somebody that couldn't speak any Spanish. And it turned out that her husband had a mistress and a whole other family. And so every day, you know, she would tell me about this and cry and. But it turned out that then the husband would come home because he was kind of interested, not sexually interested in me, but it was just sort of a curiosity to have this gringa living there. So he kind of wanted to talk to me and find out what things were like, so he would come home. So she was happy. And you know, he drove us. He took a, we did, we did a couple of weekend trips because he wanted to show me different things. And I think, I think I had told them that I had been a nun. So that also was a real curiosity to him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So but every single night, she fixed the exact same thing for dinner. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5394485562295335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it wasn't like getting somebody that couldn't speak any Spanish. And it turned out that her husband had a mistress and a whole other family. And so every day, you know, she would tell me about this and cry and. But it turned out that then the husband would come home because he was kind of interested, not sexually interested in me, but it was just sort of a curiosity to have this gringa living there. So he kind of wanted to talk to me and find out what things were like, so he would come home. So she was happy. And you know, he drove us. He took a, we did, we did a couple of weekend trips because he wanted to show me different things. And I think, I think I had told them that I had been a nun. So that also was a real curiosity to him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So but every single night, she fixed the exact same thing for dinner. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fried chicken, which was fine with me because I loved that, canned beans like they eat. In Puerto Rico, they just eat canned beans, and rice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. No vegetables?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7104983958105928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So but every single night, she fixed the exact same thing for dinner. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fried chicken, which was fine with me because I loved that, canned beans like they eat. In Puerto Rico, they just eat canned beans, and rice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. No vegetables?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No vegetables, no salads. Fruit, there was fruit, like whatever it was in season."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no greens?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.900553773122881, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fried chicken, which was fine with me because I loved that, canned beans like they eat. In Puerto Rico, they just eat canned beans, and rice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. No vegetables?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No vegetables, no salads. Fruit, there was fruit, like whatever it was in season."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no greens?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don't remember the other meals, but every single night the dinner was exactly the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you have to drink?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.111726414580979, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No vegetables, no salads. Fruit, there was fruit, like whatever it was in season."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no greens?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don't remember the other meals, but every single night the dinner was exactly the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you have to drink?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Water or was there a fresco of some sort?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3463626828677544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don't remember the other meals, but every single night the dinner was exactly the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you have to drink?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Water or was there a fresco of some sort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I'm, it might have been. I can't remember. I can't remember. We had coffee, you know, coffee in the, coffee in the mornings. There was a lot of fresh fruit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds pretty good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6070696476308384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Water or was there a fresco of some sort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I'm, it might have been. I can't remember. I can't remember. We had coffee, you know, coffee in the, coffee in the mornings. There was a lot of fresh fruit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds pretty good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty good. And there were other people who were, you know, and the house was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed with this woman and her children."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.896744052923154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I'm, it might have been. I can't remember. I can't remember. We had coffee, you know, coffee in the, coffee in the mornings. There was a lot of fresh fruit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds pretty good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty good. And there were other people who were, you know, and the house was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed with this woman and her children."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And occasionally the guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The son, the 11 year old son, and the husband who was sometimes there for? And in the evening."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2186045032479487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty good. And there were other people who were, you know, and the house was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed with this woman and her children."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And occasionally the guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The son, the 11 year old son, and the husband who was sometimes there for? And in the evening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was about six weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six weeks. But in the daytime, you went to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.576227225831054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And occasionally the guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The son, the 11 year old son, and the husband who was sometimes there for? And in the evening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was about six weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six weeks. But in the daytime, you went to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the training center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Back to the training center with the other Peace Corps volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.415095340532165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the training center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Back to the training center with the other Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So there we had language classes and we had some cultural, what they called cultural sensitivity training, which people thought was just a joke."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was kind of interesting, but I was kind of into that. But most people thought it was really ridiculous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sorts of things?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.981599185842178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was kind of interesting, but I was kind of into that. But most people thought it was really ridiculous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sorts of things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were, you know, like, it was like body language and it was returned volunteers who were doing it. Well, there was one that we all really liked, this woman named Arietta. I think her name was Arietta Wilson. And she had been. She had been in a public health program as well. I don't she was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, cool. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.312887984269087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were, you know, like, it was like body language and it was returned volunteers who were doing it. Well, there was one that we all really liked, this woman named Arietta. I think her name was Arietta Wilson. And she had been. She had been in a public health program as well. I don't she was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, cool. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was like a returned volunteer that they hired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are people with credibility, that have actually been there themselves. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.544427961960339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't do any, there was nothing. There was no physical component to it like these people that told us about the first group that went into. There was nothing physical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't remember any. I think that there must have been some nutrition stuff on nutrition, because that's what we were supposed to be, was nutritionists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nutritionists."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And none of us were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there were just, there were just a few of you who are going to be doing that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.938253291067043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't remember any. I think that there must have been some nutrition stuff on nutrition, because that's what we were supposed to be, was nutritionists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nutritionists."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And none of us were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there were just, there were just a few of you who are going to be doing that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was myself, Linda. This girl who, young woman who didn't end up staying. And we knew she would never make it. Um, there might, I think there might have just been three of us that were doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's hard for, I think, for a training program to specialize with such a small number of people."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.375836990074492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And none of us were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there were just, there were just a few of you who are going to be doing that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was myself, Linda. This girl who, young woman who didn't end up staying. And we knew she would never make it. Um, there might, I think there might have just been three of us that were doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's hard for, I think, for a training program to specialize with such a small number of people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I think that they did give us some, um, I think we had, they gave us some nutrition training and maybe some, you know, like community organizing type techniques. But most of the group was nurses. Almost, almost all the women were nurses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And, um, was there any talk of deselection?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.862041100082769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was myself, Linda. This girl who, young woman who didn't end up staying. And we knew she would never make it. Um, there might, I think there might have just been three of us that were doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's hard for, I think, for a training program to specialize with such a small number of people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I think that they did give us some, um, I think we had, they gave us some nutrition training and maybe some, you know, like community organizing type techniques. But most of the group was nurses. Almost, almost all the women were nurses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And, um, was there any talk of deselection?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah. And some people were deselected. So there was a psychiatrist there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask if you had psychiatrists come and talk to you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.402267888980854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I think that they did give us some, um, I think we had, they gave us some nutrition training and maybe some, you know, like community organizing type techniques. But most of the group was nurses. Almost, almost all the women were nurses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And, um, was there any talk of deselection?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah. And some people were deselected. So there was a psychiatrist there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask if you had psychiatrists come and talk to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a psychiatrist, yes. And he was the same person that had been at the staging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the staging had happened?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.891408765534282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah. And some people were deselected. So there was a psychiatrist there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask if you had psychiatrists come and talk to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a psychiatrist, yes. And he was the same person that had been at the staging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the staging had happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Denver."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, we hadn't talked about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.434898628371425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a psychiatrist, yes. And he was the same person that had been at the staging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the staging had happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Denver."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, we hadn't talked about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I forgot about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had met, you had all met up somewhere in Denver?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.59864028194003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I forgot about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had met, you had all met up somewhere in Denver?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn't like. I think they were different stagings in different parts of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because. [background noise] I hope that doesn't go on all night. There was, um, I don't remember meeting anybody that was in the training when I was in Denver, and that was all so programmed. There wasn't really any time to, I don't remember any time to mingle, but we all had individual conferences with the psychiatrist at the staging. And that same that same psychiatrist was there in Ponce. And I think he was there the whole time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Observing you in groups?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.220711424377811, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn't like. I think they were different stagings in different parts of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because. [background noise] I hope that doesn't go on all night. There was, um, I don't remember meeting anybody that was in the training when I was in Denver, and that was all so programmed. There wasn't really any time to, I don't remember any time to mingle, but we all had individual conferences with the psychiatrist at the staging. And that same that same psychiatrist was there in Ponce. And I think he was there the whole time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Observing you in groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I think so. I wouldn't swear to it, but I remember meeting with him individually. We met with him individually again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you have to do any peer ratings of passing judgment on one another?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.911901582642012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because. [background noise] I hope that doesn't go on all night. There was, um, I don't remember meeting anybody that was in the training when I was in Denver, and that was all so programmed. There wasn't really any time to, I don't remember any time to mingle, but we all had individual conferences with the psychiatrist at the staging. And that same that same psychiatrist was there in Ponce. And I think he was there the whole time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Observing you in groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I think so. I wouldn't swear to it, but I remember meeting with him individually. We met with him individually again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you have to do any peer ratings of passing judgment on one another?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who maybe ought not to go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.533211830422237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who maybe ought not to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. At least I don't remember it. Did you do that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. We didn't have any of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Painful. And so some people were deselected."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.48134647824693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. At least I don't remember it. Did you do that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. We didn't have any of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Painful. And so some people were deselected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember how you felt about that? Were there, were there, were there objections from those who remained?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.423718309163256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. We didn't have any of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Painful. And so some people were deselected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember how you felt about that? Were there, were there, were there objections from those who remained?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't. I think we all kind of felt like they would have never made it. And there was one person who we, oh, actually, she was another one of the nutritionists that, she was the fourth. That at least Linda and I were like, this woman is nuts. She was young. And we really thought she should have been deselected. And in fact, she had a total nervous breakdown. And they had to, they had to, they had to ship her out of the country. There were, I don't remember it being a big thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if people were deselected, they deselected themselves?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.248575899070284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember how you felt about that? Were there, were there, were there objections from those who remained?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't. I think we all kind of felt like they would have never made it. And there was one person who we, oh, actually, she was another one of the nutritionists that, she was the fourth. That at least Linda and I were like, this woman is nuts. She was young. And we really thought she should have been deselected. And in fact, she had a total nervous breakdown. And they had to, they had to, they had to ship her out of the country. There were, I don't remember it being a big thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if people were deselected, they deselected themselves?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, some people just decided they didn't want. I remember this woman who was at the time, she was probably, I think she was in her fifties actually. Single, quite glamorous, you know, makeup. And she approached me and said, Kathy, I think it would be great if we got a house together in Honduras and let's get a parrot. We'll get a house. And I mean, she just had this total, totally unrealistic picture of what Honduras was going to be like. And she didn't go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She didn't go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.165084332300315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't. I think we all kind of felt like they would have never made it. And there was one person who we, oh, actually, she was another one of the nutritionists that, she was the fourth. That at least Linda and I were like, this woman is nuts. She was young. And we really thought she should have been deselected. And in fact, she had a total nervous breakdown. And they had to, they had to, they had to ship her out of the country. There were, I don't remember it being a big thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if people were deselected, they deselected themselves?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, some people just decided they didn't want. I remember this woman who was at the time, she was probably, I think she was in her fifties actually. Single, quite glamorous, you know, makeup. And she approached me and said, Kathy, I think it would be great if we got a house together in Honduras and let's get a parrot. We'll get a house. And I mean, she just had this total, totally unrealistic picture of what Honduras was going to be like. And she didn't go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She didn't go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you and a couple of others."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.18342703588924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, some people just decided they didn't want. I remember this woman who was at the time, she was probably, I think she was in her fifties actually. Single, quite glamorous, you know, makeup. And she approached me and said, Kathy, I think it would be great if we got a house together in Honduras and let's get a parrot. We'll get a house. And I mean, she just had this total, totally unrealistic picture of what Honduras was going to be like. And she didn't go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She didn't go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you and a couple of others."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just Linda. Linda and I went early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Went early. You left training early because they decided you were ready. They must have also, on the other end, needed you to begin something?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.092696706543599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you and a couple of others."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just Linda. Linda and I went early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Went early. You left training early because they decided you were ready. They must have also, on the other end, needed you to begin something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess they were ready to, um. So the program that we were assigned to was Caritas, was with Caritas, which is the international relief arm of the Catholic Church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it's an acronym, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.23826708716543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. Caritas is charity in Latin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's like the, um, it's like the AID of the Catholic Church and, um, which to me was totally ironic because I really did not want to be involved in the Catholic Church. I mean, I wasn't anti Catholic, but I just, you know, I mean, I thought I was going into the Peace Corps. That was going to be totally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And, um, and it was pretty interesting because Linda was an atheist. And, um, so but this was the most, these people were so smart, these people that worked for Caritas. I, we were in awe of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Who were they?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.849712453290655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And, um, and it was pretty interesting because Linda was an atheist. And, um, so but this was the most, these people were so smart, these people that worked for Caritas. I, we were in awe of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Who were they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the head of Catholic Relief Services. Well, no, they were. Catholic Relief Services is like the AID and Caritas was a program under Catholic Relief Services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the guy who was the director of Catholic Relief Services was from the US and his name was Sal Pinsino. And then there were these Honduran men who were in their thirties, and they had offices all around the country, like five or six, and they were all Christian Democrats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's a political party in Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.388569392545172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the head of Catholic Relief Services. Well, no, they were. Catholic Relief Services is like the AID and Caritas was a program under Catholic Relief Services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the guy who was the director of Catholic Relief Services was from the US and his name was Sal Pinsino. And then there were these Honduran men who were in their thirties, and they had offices all around the country, like five or six, and they were all Christian Democrats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's a political party in Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a political party which had no, I mean, at that point, they'd been, they were they were forming a new party. They were forming a new political party that was, you know, a radical. It was a revolutionary party. And they had this unbelievably sophisticated plan for organizing. And so it was the Catholic Church. It was, um. It was liberation theology. And what they started with was what they called. And this was happening actually all over Latin America, not just in Honduras. Celebrate, Los Celebradores de la Palabra. So there were not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you translate that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.541443694500211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a political party which had no, I mean, at that point, they'd been, they were they were forming a new party. They were forming a new political party that was, you know, a radical. It was a revolutionary party. And they had this unbelievably sophisticated plan for organizing. And so it was the Catholic Church. It was, um. It was liberation theology. And what they started with was what they called. And this was happening actually all over Latin America, not just in Honduras. Celebrate, Los Celebradores de la Palabra. So there were not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you translate that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Celebradores, the Celebrators of the Word."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there aren't enough, you know, it's a big spread-out country for Central America, sparsely populated. Only one paved highway in the entire country at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would that be the Pan-American Highway crossing from Guatemala through Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.92187729690628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "United Fruit. Standard brand, United Fruit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chiquita banana. Honduras is the classic banana republic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was United Fruit and the highway went from the port where they shipped the bananas out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now which, uh, Honduras has two coasts, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.690974774340312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chiquita banana. Honduras is the classic banana republic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was United Fruit and the highway went from the port where they shipped the bananas out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now which, uh, Honduras has two coasts, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So if we look at map."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's look at the map. We've got a computer here with a map and so we're looking at it here. So we have the Pacific coast on the south and the Atlantic on the north."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.434416415933679, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was United Fruit and the highway went from the port where they shipped the bananas out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now which, uh, Honduras has two coasts, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So if we look at map."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's look at the map. We've got a computer here with a map and so we're looking at it here. So we have the Pacific coast on the south and the Atlantic on the north."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so this is where most of United Fruit had their stuff, their stuff around San Pedro Sula."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And San Pedro Sula is in the north, on the Atlantic. It's that part of Latin, of Central America, which goes east and west. We think of it as north and south. But here the Atlantic is on the north and the Pacific is on the south."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:479", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.260462684370754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So if we look at map."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's look at the map. We've got a computer here with a map and so we're looking at it here. So we have the Pacific coast on the south and the Atlantic on the north."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so this is where most of United Fruit had their stuff, their stuff around San Pedro Sula."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And San Pedro Sula is in the north, on the Atlantic. It's that part of Latin, of Central America, which goes east and west. We think of it as north and south. But here the Atlantic is on the north and the Pacific is on the south."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So I'm always confused. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you're looking at the port up here and San Pedro Sula."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.067180760411949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so this is where most of United Fruit had their stuff, their stuff around San Pedro Sula."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And San Pedro Sula is in the north, on the Atlantic. It's that part of Latin, of Central America, which goes east and west. We think of it as north and south. But here the Atlantic is on the north and the Pacific is on the south."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So I'm always confused. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you're looking at the port up here and San Pedro Sula."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then Tegucigalpa, here's the capital. So the one highway went from San Pedro Sula to through Tegucigalpa down here, which was where they shipped the bananas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you're saying down here, we're talking about the Pacific coast."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.963534178235498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So I'm always confused. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you're looking at the port up here and San Pedro Sula."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then Tegucigalpa, here's the capital. So the one highway went from San Pedro Sula to through Tegucigalpa down here, which was where they shipped the bananas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you're saying down here, we're talking about the Pacific coast."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think. I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A small, small part of Honduras has, um, it's got a huge Atlantic coastline, but a very small Pacific coastline."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.066091578068516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think. I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A small, small part of Honduras has, um, it's got a huge Atlantic coastline, but a very small Pacific coastline."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. What was I talking about?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the, the highway, that there was the only one highway."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 11.192705651936437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. What was I talking about?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the, the highway, that there was the only one highway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, right. So the priests. So. So you've got this big, you know, I mean, it's bigger, much. Look at how tiny El Salvador, San Salvador, El Salvador is compared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, it's sparsely populated. And there were not enough priests. So what they did was they, they started out their organization, their organizing strategy was to start training men, campesino men, peasant men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say their strategy, this is the Caritas?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9416119159709098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, it's sparsely populated. And there were not enough priests. So what they did was they, they started out their organization, their organizing strategy was to start training men, campesino men, peasant men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say their strategy, this is the Caritas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is the Caritas people, to be, essentially they were celebrating the mass. They were celebrating the liturgies in their villages. And so these people, and they, and they, the readings that were selected for these celebrations, La Celebración de la Palabra, were all liberation theology. It was all about, you know, the Hebrews being freed from, the Jews being freed from slavery. And, you know, Jesus, uh, Saint Matthew with I was hungry and you gave me to eat. I was thirsty. I was imprisoned. As long as you do it to one of these, the least my brethren, you do it to me. It was all those scriptures. So that's what every Sunday, that's what people were studying for years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In their villages. That was their first step. Then their second step was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then this was all part of sort of the fallout from Vatican II, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.379568795523233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is the Caritas people, to be, essentially they were celebrating the mass. They were celebrating the liturgies in their villages. And so these people, and they, and they, the readings that were selected for these celebrations, La Celebración de la Palabra, were all liberation theology. It was all about, you know, the Hebrews being freed from, the Jews being freed from slavery. And, you know, Jesus, uh, Saint Matthew with I was hungry and you gave me to eat. I was thirsty. I was imprisoned. As long as you do it to one of these, the least my brethren, you do it to me. It was all those scriptures. So that's what every Sunday, that's what people were studying for years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In their villages. That was their first step. Then their second step was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then this was all part of sort of the fallout from Vatican II, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And it was the fallout."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The liberation theology."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6439653283591475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In their villages. That was their first step. Then their second step was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then this was all part of sort of the fallout from Vatican II, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And it was the fallout."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The liberation theology."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, which started in in Medellin, Colombia. In Medellin, Colombia, in the late sixties, all the bishops of Latin America got together and they looked at the reality of Latin America. And what they said was, what came out of it was, the reality of Latin America is oppression, and the church is part of it. We're responsible for it. And we now take, it's more than this but this was the gist of it, we now take a preferential option for the poor. We have created this oppression. This is not God's will and we have to end this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was a segment of the Catholic Church?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9377392537323863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And it was the fallout."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The liberation theology."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, which started in in Medellin, Colombia. In Medellin, Colombia, in the late sixties, all the bishops of Latin America got together and they looked at the reality of Latin America. And what they said was, what came out of it was, the reality of Latin America is oppression, and the church is part of it. We're responsible for it. And we now take, it's more than this but this was the gist of it, we now take a preferential option for the poor. We have created this oppression. This is not God's will and we have to end this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was a segment of the Catholic Church?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not everyone in Latin America was on the same page."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:505", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.6268385848547977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not everyone in Latin America was on the same page."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was a big movement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Oscar Romero next door in El Salvador. Well, I'm trying to remember when Oscar Romero was killed. It was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:507", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.918709538727553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was a big movement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Oscar Romero next door in El Salvador. Well, I'm trying to remember when Oscar Romero was killed. It was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was later. It was in the eighties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, was it later?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1318994874750588, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was a big movement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Oscar Romero next door in El Salvador. Well, I'm trying to remember when Oscar Romero was killed. It was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was later. It was in the eighties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, was it later?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was in the early eighties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then there was something of the Maryknoll nuns."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.631974675895134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was in the early eighties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then there was something of the Maryknoll nuns."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Same time in El Salvador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were there in sort of the early."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.924416306550149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Same time in El Salvador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were there in sort of the early."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The beginnings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beginnings of the implementation of that idea."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:517", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.249351451722388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were there in sort of the early."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The beginnings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beginnings of the implementation of that idea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the changing of what was being said from the pulpit."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9004338910152936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the changing of what was being said from the pulpit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So then the next thing they did was they organized radio schools. So because everybody had transistor radios."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And using Paulo Freire's, Paulo Freire was their guru, using Paulo Freire's pedagogy, they brought people in who didn't know how to read and trained them and gave them lesson plans. And then these, they taught people to read over the radio with, you know, some with another peasant in the village, because there were no schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we need to talk about that Paulo Freire is the author of Pedagogy of the Oppressed, and he sees literacy as key to the liberation of oppressed poor people."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5807825815003627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And using Paulo Freire's, Paulo Freire was their guru, using Paulo Freire's pedagogy, they brought people in who didn't know how to read and trained them and gave them lesson plans. And then these, they taught people to read over the radio with, you know, some with another peasant in the village, because there were no schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we need to talk about that Paulo Freire is the author of Pedagogy of the Oppressed, and he sees literacy as key to the liberation of oppressed poor people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the way he teaches them to read is by taking, the subject matter is their reality and it's dialectical, so it's all like Socratic dialogue. So that was the second part of it. And then there, then they had, they had requested Peace Corps volunteers because they wanted, their other thing was housewives clubs and promotores de salud."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, translate promotores."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9786473127781807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the way he teaches them to read is by taking, the subject matter is their reality and it's dialectical, so it's all like Socratic dialogue. So that was the second part of it. And then there, then they had, they had requested Peace Corps volunteers because they wanted, their other thing was housewives clubs and promotores de salud."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, translate promotores."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was like the barefoot doctor concept."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Health promoters, literally. But yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.8007991515780013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was like the barefoot doctor concept."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Health promoters, literally. But yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they, they, so they thought, well, this is what has to happen with women, that this society. We're not going to have a revolution unless women are part of it. I mean, women were the most oppressed segment of the population."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they saw that. And so they were organizing these housewives clubs. And then they had money from Germany and they wanted Peace Corps volunteers that were going to organize this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Money from Germany?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:533", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1119990573088905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they, they, so they thought, well, this is what has to happen with women, that this society. We're not going to have a revolution unless women are part of it. I mean, women were the most oppressed segment of the population."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they saw that. And so they were organizing these housewives clubs. And then they had money from Germany and they wanted Peace Corps volunteers that were going to organize this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Money from Germany?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the Christian Democrats, because the Christian Democrats are a political party in Germany."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and also in Honduras at that time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3466656192321005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they saw that. And so they were organizing these housewives clubs. And then they had money from Germany and they wanted Peace Corps volunteers that were going to organize this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Money from Germany?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the Christian Democrats, because the Christian Democrats are a political party in Germany."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and also in Honduras at that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were trying to form this party. They were, they were it. There weren't very many of them. So. So the idea was that. I mean, the whole thing. I just to this day I think it was so smart. So they had these villages. They had about 30 or 40 villages where I was in Olancho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were where?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.607406243591223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the Christian Democrats, because the Christian Democrats are a political party in Germany."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and also in Honduras at that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were trying to form this party. They were, they were it. There weren't very many of them. So. So the idea was that. I mean, the whole thing. I just to this day I think it was so smart. So they had these villages. They had about 30 or 40 villages where I was in Olancho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were where?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Olancho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I'm looking at the map again. So where is Olancho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:539", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7860069373235807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were trying to form this party. They were, they were it. There weren't very many of them. So. So the idea was that. I mean, the whole thing. I just to this day I think it was so smart. So they had these villages. They had about 30 or 40 villages where I was in Olancho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were where?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Olancho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I'm looking at the map again. So where is Olancho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I lived. I saw it on here. I lived here in Juticalpa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Juticalpa. And where is Olancho from that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9844521525817562, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Olancho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I'm looking at the map again. So where is Olancho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I lived. I saw it on here. I lived here in Juticalpa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Juticalpa. And where is Olancho from that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So this is, all of this is Olancho. But you can see it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see it. There's a little town called Olanchito up here, but there's."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:543", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2049468362019513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I lived. I saw it on here. I lived here in Juticalpa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Juticalpa. And where is Olancho from that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So this is, all of this is Olancho. But you can see it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see it. There's a little town called Olanchito up here, but there's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that's not part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's a whole province."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.024618431004048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. It was a province."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The province. And it was kind of considered the wild west of Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it was mostly cattle ranches and there is some hardwood forests. But look at how far it is from Tegucigalpa and San Pedro Sula, which are the only cities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's hard to tell on the map how far. Let's talk in terms of time. If you wanted to get from your town of Juticalpa to the capital, Tegucigalpa, how long would it take you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.2495760344489417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The province. And it was kind of considered the wild west of Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it was mostly cattle ranches and there is some hardwood forests. But look at how far it is from Tegucigalpa and San Pedro Sula, which are the only cities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's hard to tell on the map how far. Let's talk in terms of time. If you wanted to get from your town of Juticalpa to the capital, Tegucigalpa, how long would it take you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is 8 hours of a bus ride on a dirt road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, 8 hours on a bus. And to get from Juticalpa to San Pedro Sula, would you have to go down to Teguc and then up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:553", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3884178160543794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it was mostly cattle ranches and there is some hardwood forests. But look at how far it is from Tegucigalpa and San Pedro Sula, which are the only cities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's hard to tell on the map how far. Let's talk in terms of time. If you wanted to get from your town of Juticalpa to the capital, Tegucigalpa, how long would it take you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is 8 hours of a bus ride on a dirt road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, 8 hours on a bus. And to get from Juticalpa to San Pedro Sula, would you have to go down to Teguc and then up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that was two days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A couple of days. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:555", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.5426864622826437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is 8 hours of a bus ride on a dirt road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, 8 hours on a bus. And to get from Juticalpa to San Pedro Sula, would you have to go down to Teguc and then up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that was two days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A couple of days. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So no one ever came out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you're pretty isolated. And were you by yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:557", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6029849580918264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that was two days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A couple of days. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So no one ever came out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you're pretty isolated. And were you by yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I lived with a British nurse and an Irish nurse who worked at the hospital in Juticalpa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're back with the Irish again."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:559", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.669983286768696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So no one ever came out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you're pretty isolated. And were you by yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I lived with a British nurse and an Irish nurse who worked at the hospital in Juticalpa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're back with the Irish again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know, I could not escape them. And then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's talk, let's talk about. Let's slow down and talk about where you lived and how you lived in Juticalpa. You're an American living with a British woman and an Irish woman, and they're both nurses?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.74442587418744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I lived with a British nurse and an Irish nurse who worked at the hospital in Juticalpa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're back with the Irish again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know, I could not escape them. And then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's talk, let's talk about. Let's slow down and talk about where you lived and how you lived in Juticalpa. You're an American living with a British woman and an Irish woman, and they're both nurses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of house were you living in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:563", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8271398602082667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know, I could not escape them. And then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's talk, let's talk about. Let's slow down and talk about where you lived and how you lived in Juticalpa. You're an American living with a British woman and an Irish woman, and they're both nurses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of house were you living in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The house was a nice house. It had, you know, it was in the town. This, Juticalpa, is the only town in all of the. They were just little aldeas, little villages, all connected by dirt roads. I mean, most of them didn't even have busses that went to their villages. The house was a nice house, you know, cement house with tile floors. There was a living room and then a patio with three bedrooms around the patio and a dining area on the outside with no wall, a table, covered table. The kitchen had a two burner, you know, little kerosene burners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Refrigerator?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:565", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9190442891202963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of house were you living in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The house was a nice house. It had, you know, it was in the town. This, Juticalpa, is the only town in all of the. They were just little aldeas, little villages, all connected by dirt roads. I mean, most of them didn't even have busses that went to their villages. The house was a nice house, you know, cement house with tile floors. There was a living room and then a patio with three bedrooms around the patio and a dining area on the outside with no wall, a table, covered table. The kitchen had a two burner, you know, little kerosene burners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Refrigerator?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a refrigerator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:567", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0211603212447737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The house was a nice house. It had, you know, it was in the town. This, Juticalpa, is the only town in all of the. They were just little aldeas, little villages, all connected by dirt roads. I mean, most of them didn't even have busses that went to their villages. The house was a nice house, you know, cement house with tile floors. There was a living room and then a patio with three bedrooms around the patio and a dining area on the outside with no wall, a table, covered table. The kitchen had a two burner, you know, little kerosene burners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Refrigerator?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a refrigerator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had water on and off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aha. So you had a flush toilet?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:569", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1346225791608597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a refrigerator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had water on and off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aha. So you had a flush toilet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes, if there was water and we had a pila, a big tub, where you could, you know, like wash your clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so did you do your own washing of the clothes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:571", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2606917546231775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had water on and off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aha. So you had a flush toilet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes, if there was water and we had a pila, a big tub, where you could, you know, like wash your clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so did you do your own washing of the clothes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did. And you did your own cooking?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4007686162479749, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes, if there was water and we had a pila, a big tub, where you could, you know, like wash your clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so did you do your own washing of the clothes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did. And you did your own cooking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so that meant you had to go to the market and shop yourselves. You didn't hire anyone who did all those domestic things for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:575", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.556409573608861, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did. And you did your own cooking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so that meant you had to go to the market and shop yourselves. You didn't hire anyone who did all those domestic things for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At one point we had the sister of one of the promotores de salud that wanted to come in and go to do a class on to become a beautician. She lived with us for free in exchange for like doing the laundry and some of the cleaning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yeah, okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7293439706765121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so that meant you had to go to the market and shop yourselves. You didn't hire anyone who did all those domestic things for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At one point we had the sister of one of the promotores de salud that wanted to come in and go to do a class on to become a beautician. She lived with us for free in exchange for like doing the laundry and some of the cleaning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that helped. But we did our own cooking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And your own shopping in the market?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:579", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9214933007516801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At one point we had the sister of one of the promotores de salud that wanted to come in and go to do a class on to become a beautician. She lived with us for free in exchange for like doing the laundry and some of the cleaning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that helped. But we did our own cooking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And your own shopping in the market?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What you're talking about is so heady and so important. And I feel, I feel like I'm pulling you back now to talk about nitty gritty things. But how did you buy food and what did you eat?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:581", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1349925563907557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that helped. But we did our own cooking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And your own shopping in the market?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What you're talking about is so heady and so important. And I feel, I feel like I'm pulling you back now to talk about nitty gritty things. But how did you buy food and what did you eat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a little tiny store right across the street where you could buy like bread and eggs. And sometimes people would walk up the street selling stuff, you know, fruit or eggs or. In the market you could buy. What we ate was beans, beans and rice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you buy dry beans or can?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:583", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.372213951545284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What you're talking about is so heady and so important. And I feel, I feel like I'm pulling you back now to talk about nitty gritty things. But how did you buy food and what did you eat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a little tiny store right across the street where you could buy like bread and eggs. And sometimes people would walk up the street selling stuff, you know, fruit or eggs or. In the market you could buy. What we ate was beans, beans and rice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you buy dry beans or can?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not canned like Puerto Rico."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:585", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.63579327949476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a little tiny store right across the street where you could buy like bread and eggs. And sometimes people would walk up the street selling stuff, you know, fruit or eggs or. In the market you could buy. What we ate was beans, beans and rice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you buy dry beans or can?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not canned like Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you'd buy the dried beans and so forth and then boil them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:587", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.928659199438622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not canned like Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you'd buy the dried beans and so forth and then boil them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And tortillas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of tortillas, were they handmade?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:589", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.2540657771540245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you'd buy the dried beans and so forth and then boil them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And tortillas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of tortillas, were they handmade?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, they must have been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm thinking of the typical Mexican tortillas. Flat. Very like rolled thin like paper. But in Guatemala, sometimes they have these quarter inch thick things that people make by hand."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:591", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5045175301711384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And tortillas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of tortillas, were they handmade?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, they must have been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm thinking of the typical Mexican tortillas. Flat. Very like rolled thin like paper. But in Guatemala, sometimes they have these quarter inch thick things that people make by hand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. They were more like Guatemalan. More like Guatemalan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And El Salvadorans too are thicker. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:595", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.091996950828566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. They were more like Guatemalan. More like Guatemalan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And El Salvadorans too are thicker. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had yucca, cabbage, eggs. We could get bacon. We could get pork. We could get pork. Chicken was hard to come by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't. It was hard to get chickens, but we had a lot of pork. Mostly pork for meat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'd buy it in the market."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:597", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3244410564761844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had yucca, cabbage, eggs. We could get bacon. We could get pork. We could get pork. Chicken was hard to come by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't. It was hard to get chickens, but we had a lot of pork. Mostly pork for meat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'd buy it in the market."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the market fresh, yeah. Eggs. We had eggs. And there was, you could get, like there was a panadería. You could get like sweet pan dulce. Well, actually the panadería was in the next town in Catacamas, but they would bring and sometimes you could get pan dulce."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I have to interrupt here. Panadería is a bakery, bread being pan."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:599", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.582712284973538, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't. It was hard to get chickens, but we had a lot of pork. Mostly pork for meat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'd buy it in the market."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the market fresh, yeah. Eggs. We had eggs. And there was, you could get, like there was a panadería. You could get like sweet pan dulce. Well, actually the panadería was in the next town in Catacamas, but they would bring and sometimes you could get pan dulce."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I have to interrupt here. Panadería is a bakery, bread being pan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So pan dulce is a sweet bread?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:607", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4123034369357383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oranges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any greens?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cabbage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. Oh, and cabbage and yucca and then those squash. That chayote squash. I think that we had cucumbers. I'm remembering cucumbers. But I might have that confused with Mexico. It wasn't, there wasn't very much variety, but it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was nourishing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:609", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.68033715215082, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cabbage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. Oh, and cabbage and yucca and then those squash. That chayote squash. I think that we had cucumbers. I'm remembering cucumbers. But I might have that confused with Mexico. It wasn't, there wasn't very much variety, but it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was nourishing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it wasn't, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had coffee?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:613", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.309058212531877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it wasn't, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had coffee?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had coffee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The Honduran beer was stronger than American beer. And if you went into a bar, not in Juticalpa. I never went into a bar, but in Tegucigalpa, if I would go in with other volunteers, you know, they would serve you little. But if you order a beer, you would get like a little thing of peanuts. Or a little, they'd give you little boquitos, bocaritos with your beer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, a bocarito would be?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:619", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.795690277821504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like a little appetizer. Peanuts, they would give you, or in the best place was after I, at the end of my time they sent me to Costa Rica to train a new group coming in and in Guanacaste and there was a bar. It was just this little crummy bar across the street from the training center where they, if you ordered a beer, you would get like little plates and pieces of fried, fresh fried fish and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fabulous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That were, you didn't pay for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like tapas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it is automatic. It comes with the beer. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very nice. So. So you had, it sounds like your living situation was pretty well taken care of. It was not a crisis of keeping yourself alive."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:621", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.995211419801671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That were, you didn't pay for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like tapas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it is automatic. It comes with the beer. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very nice. So. So you had, it sounds like your living situation was pretty well taken care of. It was not a crisis of keeping yourself alive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your own room to sleep in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:627", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.736915527848657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I didn't share a room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was also a garage to this house, which that was where this girl who lived with us and then did our wash in exchange for board and room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She slept in there and we fixed up a room for her in the garage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So, um. So there you are. You're pretty well taken care of. You have electricity sometimes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:629", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0410172531651742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was also a garage to this house, which that was where this girl who lived with us and then did our wash in exchange for board and room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She slept in there and we fixed up a room for her in the garage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So, um. So there you are. You're pretty well taken care of. You have electricity sometimes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the electricity was pretty good. It was the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The water was on and off."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:633", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7543422878582398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the electricity was pretty good. It was the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The water was on and off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And up the street these, if you, the street went up a hill and at the top of the hill was the hospital where these two nurses that were part of the British Peace Corps equivalent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, VSO."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, one was British and one was Irish. And the British girl, she left. I keep saying girl because we were so young."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were girls."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:635", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.1714914309535995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And up the street these, if you, the street went up a hill and at the top of the hill was the hospital where these two nurses that were part of the British Peace Corps equivalent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, VSO."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, one was British and one was Irish. And the British girl, she left. I keep saying girl because we were so young."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were girls."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we called ourselves girls. I mean, it does feel terrible to say that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but not then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:639", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.915421519695802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we called ourselves girls. I mean, it does feel terrible to say that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but not then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was actually only there for a year and her term was up, but the Irish one was there and then another one came and took the place of the British one who had left. But she worked with me with the promotora project, and working in that hospital would have just been hell. So depressing, you know? I mean, people, you just did not want to go to that hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, the hospital had flush toilets, but the water never reached it. So you can imagine. And then they took the sheets down from the hospital and washed their sheets in the river, which was the source of water for the town. It was just, it was just awful. That was very, my job was very exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were not a nurse. You were doing nutrition."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:641", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.350468355217558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was actually only there for a year and her term was up, but the Irish one was there and then another one came and took the place of the British one who had left. But she worked with me with the promotora project, and working in that hospital would have just been hell. So depressing, you know? I mean, people, you just did not want to go to that hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, the hospital had flush toilets, but the water never reached it. So you can imagine. And then they took the sheets down from the hospital and washed their sheets in the river, which was the source of water for the town. It was just, it was just awful. That was very, my job was very exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were not a nurse. You were doing nutrition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was doing community organizing. That's what I was doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk about your work."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:643", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6116315057972868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, the hospital had flush toilets, but the water never reached it. So you can imagine. And then they took the sheets down from the hospital and washed their sheets in the river, which was the source of water for the town. It was just, it was just awful. That was very, my job was very exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were not a nurse. You were doing nutrition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was doing community organizing. That's what I was doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk about your work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was very, it was very intellectually stimulating. And I mean, you were working with complete. So, getting back to how these people had organized this, they had these like 30 or so villages where they had celebración. They had the Celebrations of the Word and they had the radio schools and they had housewives clubs formed. And then the next step was to create these promotores de salud. And so they were to become. There were two women from we did 15 villages at a time, two women from each village, so 30 women at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they would come in from these villages?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:645", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9018127842192074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was doing community organizing. That's what I was doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk about your work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was very, it was very intellectually stimulating. And I mean, you were working with complete. So, getting back to how these people had organized this, they had these like 30 or so villages where they had celebración. They had the Celebrations of the Word and they had the radio schools and they had housewives clubs formed. And then the next step was to create these promotores de salud. And so they were to become. There were two women from we did 15 villages at a time, two women from each village, so 30 women at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they would come in from these villages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they would come into this training center in Juticalpa, which was just catty corner from where our house was, which was run by Caritas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did they sleep?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:647", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.22423642691023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was very, it was very intellectually stimulating. And I mean, you were working with complete. So, getting back to how these people had organized this, they had these like 30 or so villages where they had celebración. They had the Celebrations of the Word and they had the radio schools and they had housewives clubs formed. And then the next step was to create these promotores de salud. And so they were to become. There were two women from we did 15 villages at a time, two women from each village, so 30 women at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they would come in from these villages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they would come into this training center in Juticalpa, which was just catty corner from where our house was, which was run by Caritas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did they sleep?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my God. It was so, talk about unsanitary. Because once again, the toilets, you know, half the time there was no water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Water to flush."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:651", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.980538798654605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my God. It was so, talk about unsanitary. Because once again, the toilets, you know, half the time there was no water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Water to flush."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like a dormitory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was like, I mean, think of like an extremely basic retreat center. It was, there was like, there were like big dormitories and bathrooms and showers. And they would come in with their babies because if they were nursing or little kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And they'd come in for how long?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:653", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.311709776282894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like a dormitory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was like, I mean, think of like an extremely basic retreat center. It was, there was like, there were like big dormitories and bathrooms and showers. And they would come in with their babies because if they were nursing or little kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And they'd come in for how long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "30 days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a month."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:655", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6796775292032153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was like, I mean, think of like an extremely basic retreat center. It was, there was like, there were like big dormitories and bathrooms and showers. And they would come in with their babies because if they were nursing or little kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And they'd come in for how long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "30 days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a month."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the way it worked was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they came in to get trained to do what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:659", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.542811764448413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the way it worked was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they came in to get trained to do what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I trained them to be on the nutrition, the preventive health, and like community organizing and teaching techniques, because they were supposed to try to get their communities to build latrines, boil their water, plant gardens. They were, you know, teaching people about balanced diets. And then there was a nurse and she taught them how to give injections."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How to sterilize, uh, how to deliver. They had, they had midwives in these villages, but they didn't know much about sanitation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So these people were going to go back and be?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:661", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.047568627164904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I trained them to be on the nutrition, the preventive health, and like community organizing and teaching techniques, because they were supposed to try to get their communities to build latrines, boil their water, plant gardens. They were, you know, teaching people about balanced diets. And then there was a nurse and she taught them how to give injections."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How to sterilize, uh, how to deliver. They had, they had midwives in these villages, but they didn't know much about sanitation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So these people were going to go back and be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The health providers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The health providers for that community."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:663", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.608409585738782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How to sterilize, uh, how to deliver. They had, they had midwives in these villages, but they didn't know much about sanitation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So these people were going to go back and be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The health providers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The health providers for that community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they went back at they end of their course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they may not have gone to high school themselves."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:667", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.701740229307138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they went back at they end of their course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they may not have gone to high school themselves."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, oh no, nobody had gone to high school because the only, the only schools only went to the third grade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, they got a little medicine kit and then they were supposed. So it had things like aspirin, bandages, you know, antibiotic cream. It had some, they could give injections and then they were supposed to sell, like they would sell the Band-Aids and aspirin for a penny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the giving injections gives me pause there, that people without an education would know which drug to administer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:669", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.113044699230153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, oh no, nobody had gone to high school because the only, the only schools only went to the third grade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, they got a little medicine kit and then they were supposed. So it had things like aspirin, bandages, you know, antibiotic cream. It had some, they could give injections and then they were supposed to sell, like they would sell the Band-Aids and aspirin for a penny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the giving injections gives me pause there, that people without an education would know which drug to administer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, they didn't. They could only administer what they had. It was more like, this is where you. So somebody could go come into Juticalpa, for example, and get something in the pharmacy and bring it back. And they would know how to inject it, but they didn't have things that they could inject."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they didn't, they weren't prescribing medicine."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:671", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.570049665811281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, they got a little medicine kit and then they were supposed. So it had things like aspirin, bandages, you know, antibiotic cream. It had some, they could give injections and then they were supposed to sell, like they would sell the Band-Aids and aspirin for a penny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the giving injections gives me pause there, that people without an education would know which drug to administer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, they didn't. They could only administer what they had. It was more like, this is where you. So somebody could go come into Juticalpa, for example, and get something in the pharmacy and bring it back. And they would know how to inject it, but they didn't have things that they could inject."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they didn't, they weren't prescribing medicine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They knew the mechanics of giving an injection."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:673", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.077832962012534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, they didn't. They could only administer what they had. It was more like, this is where you. So somebody could go come into Juticalpa, for example, and get something in the pharmacy and bring it back. And they would know how to inject it, but they didn't have things that they could inject."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they didn't, they weren't prescribing medicine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They knew the mechanics of giving an injection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And when you go to the pharmacy, you don't get a pill, you get a solution to inject."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:677", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.2689295827315235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And when you go to the pharmacy, you don't get a pill, you get a solution to inject."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they, that's the only thing that works in their mind. Everybody wants an injection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that's more powerful than a pill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, okay. So let's move on."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:679", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.965477314146137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they, that's the only thing that works in their mind. Everybody wants an injection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that's more powerful than a pill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, okay. So let's move on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the, um, so they came in. So the way it worked was, we would go out to this village. Besides the men that were in charge of each of these regions, there was a team of social promoters, promotores sociales, of like I think there were four in Juticalpa who, they were the ones that had organized, done all the organizing. And they, um. We would go, one of them and I would go out to a village and we would have a meeting and we would explain this is what the program is going to be. And then the people would nominate like five or six candidates. And then we would interview them and we would choose two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. And those are the people who came back into Juticalpa for the month. You had had a role in selecting them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:681", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.739419237940152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that's more powerful than a pill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, okay. So let's move on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the, um, so they came in. So the way it worked was, we would go out to this village. Besides the men that were in charge of each of these regions, there was a team of social promoters, promotores sociales, of like I think there were four in Juticalpa who, they were the ones that had organized, done all the organizing. And they, um. We would go, one of them and I would go out to a village and we would have a meeting and we would explain this is what the program is going to be. And then the people would nominate like five or six candidates. And then we would interview them and we would choose two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. And those are the people who came back into Juticalpa for the month. You had had a role in selecting them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you, how did you work out your criteria? How did you figure out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:687", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.616487294842457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had to have people that could at least read."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we didn't want young teenage girls. And they were the ones that could read. So if we did have a teenage girl, it had to be somebody who was pretty special and she had to be with somebody that was older. They had to be somebody that the community really respected. And it had to be somebody that, you know, that had, that believed in the cause. And somebody that was, had, you know, that we, had some leadership, because the main thing we really wanted them to do was boil their water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, if they just would boil their water, so much of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But to understand the whole idea of microbes and so forth is, uh, you almost have to present this as a kind of magic. You boil the water, you'll be healthy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:691", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.637638635607972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, if they just would boil their water, so much of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But to understand the whole idea of microbes and so forth is, uh, you almost have to present this as a kind of magic. You boil the water, you'll be healthy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. So then they came in for this month, but for one week before we started any of the technical stuff, we did this whole Paulo Freire dialogue about what is the reality of Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that they saw but they, they saw their role then. By the time they, they saw boiling your water as part of the revolution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. All right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:693", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.708487372897746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. So then they came in for this month, but for one week before we started any of the technical stuff, we did this whole Paulo Freire dialogue about what is the reality of Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that they saw but they, they saw their role then. By the time they, they saw boiling your water as part of the revolution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And building latrines. And also, as I mean, the other big thing was empowering women. We had one whole, a couple of days on the role of women in Honduras. And why is it that the saying is el hombre manda, the man commands. Why is that, you know? And we would go through this whole dialogue with these series of questions, all programmed out, the dialog to get to, you know, well, is that, you know, is there any reason for that? What is the reason for that? And is that right? And, you know, you never."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People thinking thoughts that they never dared to think before."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:695", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.898319303219719, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that they saw but they, they saw their role then. By the time they, they saw boiling your water as part of the revolution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And building latrines. And also, as I mean, the other big thing was empowering women. We had one whole, a couple of days on the role of women in Honduras. And why is it that the saying is el hombre manda, the man commands. Why is that, you know? And we would go through this whole dialogue with these series of questions, all programmed out, the dialog to get to, you know, well, is that, you know, is there any reason for that? What is the reason for that? And is that right? And, you know, you never."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People thinking thoughts that they never dared to think before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So what is, to name the problem and then to figure out, you know, who profits from things being as they are."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:697", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.220354781355242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And building latrines. And also, as I mean, the other big thing was empowering women. We had one whole, a couple of days on the role of women in Honduras. And why is it that the saying is el hombre manda, the man commands. Why is that, you know? And we would go through this whole dialogue with these series of questions, all programmed out, the dialog to get to, you know, well, is that, you know, is there any reason for that? What is the reason for that? And is that right? And, you know, you never."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People thinking thoughts that they never dared to think before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So what is, to name the problem and then to figure out, you know, who profits from things being as they are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And the problem always in Honduras, the problem always came down to land. So then the other part of this was these land invasions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you mean when you say land invasion?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:703", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.306385159609386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So these, so they, they. So they had the radio, they had the Celebrations of the Word, the radio schools, the clubs, the housewives clubs, the health promoters. And they had the ligas campesinas, which were campesino unions. And that group, what they did was they researched the. All of these people, it was a system of sharecropping."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in all these villages, there is a landowner who maybe owned, you know, 1,500 acres of land and everybody else worked. It was sharecropping. It was a system of slavery. It was really a system of slavery. Well, no, not even sharecropping. It was feudal. It was feudalism. So they would, somebody would go in to the capital and get the title to the land. And in many cases, the saying in Honduras was the fence posts walk at night, because in many cases these people didn't own the land that they said they owned at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That their family, it had been in their family for generations. And maybe in the beginning they owned 50 acres and now they owned 150. And some of that land was in the name of the Virgin of Sujatha, or it was national land. And so then these campesino leagues would go and squat on a piece of the land. And they would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That they knew was not the property of so-and-so."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:705", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.784872399565984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in all these villages, there is a landowner who maybe owned, you know, 1,500 acres of land and everybody else worked. It was sharecropping. It was a system of slavery. It was really a system of slavery. Well, no, not even sharecropping. It was feudal. It was feudalism. So they would, somebody would go in to the capital and get the title to the land. And in many cases, the saying in Honduras was the fence posts walk at night, because in many cases these people didn't own the land that they said they owned at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That their family, it had been in their family for generations. And maybe in the beginning they owned 50 acres and now they owned 150. And some of that land was in the name of the Virgin of Sujatha, or it was national land. And so then these campesino leagues would go and squat on a piece of the land. And they would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That they knew was not the property of so-and-so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And they would say, this land is ours because we've earned it through sweat equity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. And did they succeed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:709", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.24058320934072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And they would say, this land is ours because we've earned it through sweat equity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. And did they succeed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the. So, the first. I got there like in July."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of '70?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of '71. And we probably had our first training in, maybe we had done one course, and that might have been in October. So then maybe in November, um, I think it was around November, they were doing a national contas, it was doing a national training of promotores. They were going to train women to be these social promoters, not just men, and they were doing it nationally. So they chose a, I don't know, like five women from each of their areas and brought them into Tegucigalpa. And Linda Freed and I, we were working on this in Tegucigalpa when one of these land invasions occurred in this village called La Talanquera, which was about seven kilometers away from where the training. The training center was called the Centro Santa Clara in Juticalpa.\n\nSo there were 25 houses in this village, and everybody in the village went and squatted on seven hectares. That's all they wanted was seven hectares."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much is that in acres?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:711", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.04509245482302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the. So, the first. I got there like in July."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of '70?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of '71. And we probably had our first training in, maybe we had done one course, and that might have been in October. So then maybe in November, um, I think it was around November, they were doing a national contas, it was doing a national training of promotores. They were going to train women to be these social promoters, not just men, and they were doing it nationally. So they chose a, I don't know, like five women from each of their areas and brought them into Tegucigalpa. And Linda Freed and I, we were working on this in Tegucigalpa when one of these land invasions occurred in this village called La Talanquera, which was about seven kilometers away from where the training. The training center was called the Centro Santa Clara in Juticalpa.\n\nSo there were 25 houses in this village, and everybody in the village went and squatted on seven hectares. That's all they wanted was seven hectares."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much is that in acres?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a hectare. It's not as big as an acre."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so it's less than seven acres."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:713", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.938991616470023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of '71. And we probably had our first training in, maybe we had done one course, and that might have been in October. So then maybe in November, um, I think it was around November, they were doing a national contas, it was doing a national training of promotores. They were going to train women to be these social promoters, not just men, and they were doing it nationally. So they chose a, I don't know, like five women from each of their areas and brought them into Tegucigalpa. And Linda Freed and I, we were working on this in Tegucigalpa when one of these land invasions occurred in this village called La Talanquera, which was about seven kilometers away from where the training. The training center was called the Centro Santa Clara in Juticalpa.\n\nSo there were 25 houses in this village, and everybody in the village went and squatted on seven hectares. That's all they wanted was seven hectares."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much is that in acres?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a hectare. It's not as big as an acre."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so it's less than seven acres."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Less than seven acres."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a pretty small piece of land."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:715", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.487768462744469, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a hectare. It's not as big as an acre."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so it's less than seven acres."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Less than seven acres."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a pretty small piece of land."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the first day they were there, the landowner came and told them to get off and they didn't leave. And the second day, he came back with the military and told them to go and they didn't go. And the third day, the military came back and they told the women and children to start running. And they ran into the seven, they ran into the center of Santa Clara. And they just, and then they tied the. They tied the hands of the men behind their back and told them to start running. And they just started shooting. And they killed, I think they killed about five people. And then the guys who were the leaders of it went into hiding. And I wasn't there because I was in Tegucigalpa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And you had been in the country, though, for a while?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:719", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.552800571289469, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the first day they were there, the landowner came and told them to get off and they didn't leave. And the second day, he came back with the military and told them to go and they didn't go. And the third day, the military came back and they told the women and children to start running. And they ran into the seven, they ran into the center of Santa Clara. And they just, and then they tied the. They tied the hands of the men behind their back and told them to start running. And they just started shooting. And they killed, I think they killed about five people. And then the guys who were the leaders of it went into hiding. And I wasn't there because I was in Tegucigalpa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And you had been in the country, though, for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been there since July. And I knew all these people because this was one of the villages where we had done the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, gee."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they, the Peace. There was a Peace Corps volunteer in a town who wasn't at all connected with us. That in the town, if you went on the highway, it was this little town before you got to Juticalpa. He had a, he had a jeep. And there was another Peace Corps volunteer who worked in the town, a guy, who didn't work with Caritas either. But somehow or other they got the jeep and they went out and picked up the bodies and brought them into the center of Santa Clara. And then there was, you know, this big, all this stuff in the paper about this is a communist plot. This is, everything was, everybody was a communist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the press was on the side of the landowners?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:721", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.058667301432743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been there since July. And I knew all these people because this was one of the villages where we had done the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, gee."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they, the Peace. There was a Peace Corps volunteer in a town who wasn't at all connected with us. That in the town, if you went on the highway, it was this little town before you got to Juticalpa. He had a, he had a jeep. And there was another Peace Corps volunteer who worked in the town, a guy, who didn't work with Caritas either. But somehow or other they got the jeep and they went out and picked up the bodies and brought them into the center of Santa Clara. And then there was, you know, this big, all this stuff in the paper about this is a communist plot. This is, everything was, everybody was a communist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the press was on the side of the landowners?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's all in Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:723", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.62074144603638, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they, the Peace. There was a Peace Corps volunteer in a town who wasn't at all connected with us. That in the town, if you went on the highway, it was this little town before you got to Juticalpa. He had a, he had a jeep. And there was another Peace Corps volunteer who worked in the town, a guy, who didn't work with Caritas either. But somehow or other they got the jeep and they went out and picked up the bodies and brought them into the center of Santa Clara. And then there was, you know, this big, all this stuff in the paper about this is a communist plot. This is, everything was, everybody was a communist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the press was on the side of the landowners?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's all in Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is no separation. The military, the press, the politicians, the government, it's all the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the landowners."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:727", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.939186970415284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is no separation. The military, the press, the politicians, the government, it's all the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the landowners."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the landowners, exactly, they're all the same. So it went on and on, all this. And then there was a march in solidarity from Santa Clara out to La Talanquera, people with signs, which was where the massacre had happened. Um, then. Then what happened was other aldeas, other villages where there were all these Caritas organizations went and camped on the property with them. So there were hundreds of people there and they had tractors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And finally, they gave it to them. They gave them the land."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was quite a victory."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:729", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 7.710207744905872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the landowners, exactly, they're all the same. So it went on and on, all this. And then there was a march in solidarity from Santa Clara out to La Talanquera, people with signs, which was where the massacre had happened. Um, then. Then what happened was other aldeas, other villages where there were all these Caritas organizations went and camped on the property with them. So there were hundreds of people there and they had tractors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And finally, they gave it to them. They gave them the land."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was quite a victory."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at the price of five lives."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:735", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.345963984781717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the price of five lives. And it just went on, and it didn't. When I left in, well, it was. Let's see. In seventy. I left in '73. My daughter was born in '74, in the summer of '74. No, in the summer of '75, I was in the Philippines visiting my parents who were there. And Gerry sent me this article about how there had been this massacre, where, at the center of Santa Clara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where they just went in with machine guns and they just mowed people down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they kidnapped and killed this priest that was working with us, buried him alive in a well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my God."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:739", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6616839318292798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they kidnapped and killed this priest that was working with us, buried him alive in a well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my God."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's, there's a book called, um, oh gosh, what's the name of it? Oh, it's written by Penny Lernoux, who was a journalist in Latin America. And she was, uh, she wrote about the whole thing of liberation theology in Central America. And she's got a chapter on Honduras that tells about it. So. It's terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Awful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in your brief time there, two years, you were able to open the eyes of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:741", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8463154798103107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's, there's a book called, um, oh gosh, what's the name of it? Oh, it's written by Penny Lernoux, who was a journalist in Latin America. And she was, uh, she wrote about the whole thing of liberation theology in Central America. And she's got a chapter on Honduras that tells about it. So. It's terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Awful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in your brief time there, two years, you were able to open the eyes of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "90 women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "90 women who began to see themselves as."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:745", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2794018269263097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "90 women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "90 women who began to see themselves as."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who saw themselves as, they saw their lives change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was fabulous. It was just fabulous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What an incredible story."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:747", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5326686965847887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who saw themselves as, they saw their lives change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was fabulous. It was just fabulous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What an incredible story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meanwhile, so there you are in Juticalpa in Honduras, probably writing blue air letters."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:749", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.814076329538654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was fabulous. It was just fabulous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What an incredible story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meanwhile, so there you are in Juticalpa in Honduras, probably writing blue air letters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To Monsignor Cox and receiving them from him too. I have to ask you if he still has those letters that you wrote? And your mom and dad too you would have been writing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:751", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.126751477265171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meanwhile, so there you are in Juticalpa in Honduras, probably writing blue air letters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To Monsignor Cox and receiving them from him too. I have to ask you if he still has those letters that you wrote? And your mom and dad too you would have been writing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, most, I mean, we were writing to each other every day and then we started sending tapes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:753", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.474168308072412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To Monsignor Cox and receiving them from him too. I have to ask you if he still has those letters that you wrote? And your mom and dad too you would have been writing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, most, I mean, we were writing to each other every day and then we started sending tapes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I saved all of his. And then he, I finally wrote to him and said, I hope you're saving all this because. And so then he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Instead of a journal, you were writing it in letters."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:755", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.860187008969347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, most, I mean, we were writing to each other every day and then we started sending tapes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I saved all of his. And then he, I finally wrote to him and said, I hope you're saving all this because. And so then he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Instead of a journal, you were writing it in letters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was your, that was documenting, your documentary of what you were doing every day."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:757", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2890966766326075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I saved all of his. And then he, I finally wrote to him and said, I hope you're saving all this because. And so then he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Instead of a journal, you were writing it in letters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was your, that was documenting, your documentary of what you were doing every day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did he save them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:761", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.295181082262478, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did he save them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did. And after I told him to, so I have them. I have them. And I was always going to, you know, transcribe. My idea was, I really wanted to write a novel about Honduras because I'm such a reader of novels myself, but it's not really my style. I have taken a couple of creative writing classes, but I can't ever retire to have enough time to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But if I ever do. Although writing is such a solitary thing, you kind of have to close yourself off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not for, not for 24 hours a day."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:763", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.883534535847198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did. And after I told him to, so I have them. I have them. And I was always going to, you know, transcribe. My idea was, I really wanted to write a novel about Honduras because I'm such a reader of novels myself, but it's not really my style. I have taken a couple of creative writing classes, but I can't ever retire to have enough time to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But if I ever do. Although writing is such a solitary thing, you kind of have to close yourself off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not for, not for 24 hours a day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you wrote, you kept, you were in constant contact with Gerry. And then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:765", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.426149484274664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But if I ever do. Although writing is such a solitary thing, you kind of have to close yourself off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not for, not for 24 hours a day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you wrote, you kept, you were in constant contact with Gerry. And then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then he came to Honduras after I had been there a year. He came that first summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he did."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:767", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.029054982527404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you wrote, you kept, you were in constant contact with Gerry. And then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then he came to Honduras after I had been there a year. He came that first summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He came out to Juticalpa and met everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he still a priest at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:771", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5050061512683994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He came out to Juticalpa and met everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he still a priest at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that point, after. So he stayed in Santa Rosa for a year after I left. And then he went to Washington, D.C. He, then he decided he was going to leave and he went to Washington, D.C. and some, a friend of his got him a job, which was such a joke, in housing. It was training housing managers of low-income housing projects in Washington, D.C. and he stayed there for two years. No, no, he stayed there, because the first year he was still in Santa Rosa. The second year he was in Washington. And then I got sent by the Peace Corps twice to do stagings. So I got to see him. He came to Honduras, stayed for about five days. And then we traveled in Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I came up. The Peace Corps sent me up twice so I could. And then after these stagings, I would see him for a couple of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm not ready to leave your Peace Corps time in Honduras yet. I'm wondering if Peace Corps came to visit you out in your remote Juticalpa and did they help in any way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:773", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7833401680759993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that point, after. So he stayed in Santa Rosa for a year after I left. And then he went to Washington, D.C. He, then he decided he was going to leave and he went to Washington, D.C. and some, a friend of his got him a job, which was such a joke, in housing. It was training housing managers of low-income housing projects in Washington, D.C. and he stayed there for two years. No, no, he stayed there, because the first year he was still in Santa Rosa. The second year he was in Washington. And then I got sent by the Peace Corps twice to do stagings. So I got to see him. He came to Honduras, stayed for about five days. And then we traveled in Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I came up. The Peace Corps sent me up twice so I could. And then after these stagings, I would see him for a couple of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm not ready to leave your Peace Corps time in Honduras yet. I'm wondering if Peace Corps came to visit you out in your remote Juticalpa and did they help in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had the most fabulous health rep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good.\n\nEthan. His name is Ethan Van Eck.\n\nA doctor?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:775", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.09260018675111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I came up. The Peace Corps sent me up twice so I could. And then after these stagings, I would see him for a couple of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm not ready to leave your Peace Corps time in Honduras yet. I'm wondering if Peace Corps came to visit you out in your remote Juticalpa and did they help in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had the most fabulous health rep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good.\n\nEthan. His name is Ethan Van Eck.\n\nA doctor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. He had a master's in public health planning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. He talked about the work you were doing. He wasn't there to give you your gamma globulin shot or anything."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:777", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.436222429723456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had the most fabulous health rep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good.\n\nEthan. His name is Ethan Van Eck.\n\nA doctor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. He had a master's in public health planning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. He talked about the work you were doing. He wasn't there to give you your gamma globulin shot or anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no. No doctors ever came. And I did get deathly ill with parasites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I was going to ask."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:781", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7731141107696984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no. No doctors ever came. And I did get deathly ill with parasites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I was going to ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was so sick. I've never been, well, I have been that sick, but yeah. Then you had to go into Tegucigalpa, the 8 hours on the dirt road and the bus to go to get to a, um, what did they give you for, oh, Flagyl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There really wasn't any way if you were in the campo. And then, well, see, the other part of this job was after these women finished their course, then once a month, they came back for a refresher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a refresher."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:783", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9701267897441093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was so sick. I've never been, well, I have been that sick, but yeah. Then you had to go into Tegucigalpa, the 8 hours on the dirt road and the bus to go to get to a, um, what did they give you for, oh, Flagyl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There really wasn't any way if you were in the campo. And then, well, see, the other part of this job was after these women finished their course, then once a month, they came back for a refresher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a refresher."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we were supposed to go out. We went out to the villages and then we would stay overnight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's when you got sick."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:785", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1890297663823435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There really wasn't any way if you were in the campo. And then, well, see, the other part of this job was after these women finished their course, then once a month, they came back for a refresher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a refresher."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we were supposed to go out. We went out to the villages and then we would stay overnight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's when you got sick."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's when you would get sick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, because you took care of your own water and things."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:787", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4322552959803816, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we were supposed to go out. We went out to the villages and then we would stay overnight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's when you got sick."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's when you would get sick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, because you took care of your own water and things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were in charge of your cooking, you were okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:789", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.702505884422646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's when you would get sick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, because you took care of your own water and things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were in charge of your cooking, you were okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You were okay. But as soon as you went out, there was just no way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. And so, um. But then some people did come out to give you some, they could talk to you about the work. Peace Corps would talk to you about the work."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:793", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3364270178057356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You were okay. But as soon as you went out, there was just no way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. And so, um. But then some people did come out to give you some, they could talk to you about the work. Peace Corps would talk to you about the work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what? I was just thinking about the training, the best training. This was another thing that was so, I mean, people always say, oh, you got more than you received. But what I got was professional. I grew professionally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because these guys at Caritas were so smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, these were not Peace Corps guys?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:795", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7071411308952618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what? I was just thinking about the training, the best training. This was another thing that was so, I mean, people always say, oh, you got more than you received. But what I got was professional. I grew professionally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because these guys at Caritas were so smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, these were not Peace Corps guys?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were Caritas guys."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:801", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3815379024626355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Caritas. And they were giving me all of these things to read in Spanish from Paulo Freire. So I was becoming an, I became an expert in Paulo Freire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then Ethan, he gave us some fabulous training on program planning so that when I went to the School of Public Health and we had to do. Then when I got out of the Peace Corps, I got my master's in public health education at Berkeley. I mean, I was so prepared because he was fabulous and he gave his fantastic training on program planning. How to set goals, you know, goals, objectives, deadlines. Just. I mean, I just grew. I grew. It was a fabulous experience for me, professionally and intellectually challenging. And so he had been and his wife had been Peace Corps volunteers in Malaysia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then when they got out of the Peace Corps, he went to get his master's in public health. And they wanted to go of course, they wanted to go back to Malaysia, and they sent them to Honduras. And he was the health rep, I guess, because they had this big health program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was there as staff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:805", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7056023487193033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then when they got out of the Peace Corps, he went to get his master's in public health. And they wanted to go of course, they wanted to go back to Malaysia, and they sent them to Honduras. And he was the health rep, I guess, because they had this big health program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was there as staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was staff, yeah. And we just became, he and his wife. His wife and I are still very close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very divorced. But he liked me and I loved him. And so I would always stay with him when I went in. Well, I would stay with Linda or with them. And he came out a lot. And well, after that massacre happened, you know, he. I mean, it's a miracle they let, they let me stay out there really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how was it? It seems. How was it that you found yourself in Tegucigalpa when the massacre was happening?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:807", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.895113720799226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was staff, yeah. And we just became, he and his wife. His wife and I are still very close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very divorced. But he liked me and I loved him. And so I would always stay with him when I went in. Well, I would stay with Linda or with them. And he came out a lot. And well, after that massacre happened, you know, he. I mean, it's a miracle they let, they let me stay out there really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how was it? It seems. How was it that you found yourself in Tegucigalpa when the massacre was happening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was going, I had gone in to do this Caritas national training for promotores sociales."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in the capital city for further training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:817", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2093917268695926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so this was the first training course, and Linda Freed and I were giving it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Along with other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were part of the crew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is like maybe in your second year or something?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:823", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4024577872010875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this was, this was in like November."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, we were like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you hear, I hear about these volunteers who say, well, I really didn't do anything, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did a whole lot."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:827", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.435133070618626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you hear, I hear about these volunteers who say, well, I really didn't do anything, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did a whole lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't figure out what to do. I mean, these guys knew what they wanted us to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were so lucky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you fell into a organized program."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:831", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.36436181557855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were so lucky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you fell into a organized program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so. So when it happened, we were. The guy who was my boss, who was the Centro Santa Clara director, he was in there too. So we went back and then Ethan came out and he was like, you know, are you safe? And then by that point, we all, he and I really knew what was, I mean, they were, they were, they were doing revolution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was revolution. And I was part of it as a Peace Corps, which we weren't supposed to do. But he let me stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that whole program of Caritas was a revolutionary thing of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:833", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.849290906198389, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so. So when it happened, we were. The guy who was my boss, who was the Centro Santa Clara director, he was in there too. So we went back and then Ethan came out and he was like, you know, are you safe? And then by that point, we all, he and I really knew what was, I mean, they were, they were, they were doing revolution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was revolution. And I was part of it as a Peace Corps, which we weren't supposed to do. But he let me stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that whole program of Caritas was a revolutionary thing of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of poor peasant people realizing that they were intelligent human beings."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:835", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.388101006887099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was revolution. And I was part of it as a Peace Corps, which we weren't supposed to do. But he let me stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that whole program of Caritas was a revolutionary thing of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of poor peasant people realizing that they were intelligent human beings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of equal worth. And that's a revolutionary idea."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:841", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.391085057458298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. So. So, I mean, that was really the only time that I was there. Although once I was there, another thing they were doing was organizing co-ops, little co-op stores. And I was at this village at night with these guys, these social promoters and my boss, and we were having this meeting about the co-op and somebody came with and shot a gun into the room where we were meeting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My God."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we, there was no electricity in these villages. We had these lanterns. So they, you know, the lantern went out and everybody, you know, they were like, fall on the floor. But that was just a single crackpot guy. That wasn't like the military coming in, which happened later after I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah. So I got a lot of support from Ethan and a lot of professional training from him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed for a full two years. Did your role there change in any way as time went on into the second year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:843", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.101205619398109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we, there was no electricity in these villages. We had these lanterns. So they, you know, the lantern went out and everybody, you know, they were like, fall on the floor. But that was just a single crackpot guy. That wasn't like the military coming in, which happened later after I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah. So I got a lot of support from Ethan and a lot of professional training from him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed for a full two years. Did your role there change in any way as time went on into the second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the last, the end, then I was asked by Peace Corps to go to Costa Rica for three months to train that this new group that was coming in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To prepare them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:845", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.8902284659978985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah. So I got a lot of support from Ethan and a lot of professional training from him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed for a full two years. Did your role there change in any way as time went on into the second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the last, the end, then I was asked by Peace Corps to go to Costa Rica for three months to train that this new group that was coming in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To prepare them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And in the meantime, when Gerry had come to visit, he had met the director of Peace Corps, who was this guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The director of Peace Corps Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:849", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.518800575306048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And in the meantime, when Gerry had come to visit, he had met the director of Peace Corps, who was this guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The director of Peace Corps Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Country director."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The country director who, this was in the, this was in the Nixon era. He was a Nixon appointee. And he was this rancher, Republican rancher from New Mexico, who had like these turquoise belts and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can see him with a big hat on."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:851", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.020889528117831, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Country director."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The country director who, this was in the, this was in the Nixon era. He was a Nixon appointee. And he was this rancher, Republican rancher from New Mexico, who had like these turquoise belts and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can see him with a big hat on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he really liked Gerry, really liked him. And so, so he had. What had happened was, Peace Corps was going to open up their own training in country. And they asked me if I would stay and be part of the training. And this guy had offered Gerry the position of the education rep because the education rep had been moved to the Dominican Republic. So when I, so when I. So the last three months I was there, I went to Bosico, which was this training center in Guanacaste in Costa Rica. And then I left, I came back to Honduras and helped take these people I had trained to their villages. And came home and we were going to get married and then we were going to go back to Honduras. And I didn't even bring anything home. I left my stuff down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were going to go back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:853", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.467655031242034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The country director who, this was in the, this was in the Nixon era. He was a Nixon appointee. And he was this rancher, Republican rancher from New Mexico, who had like these turquoise belts and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can see him with a big hat on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he really liked Gerry, really liked him. And so, so he had. What had happened was, Peace Corps was going to open up their own training in country. And they asked me if I would stay and be part of the training. And this guy had offered Gerry the position of the education rep because the education rep had been moved to the Dominican Republic. So when I, so when I. So the last three months I was there, I went to Bosico, which was this training center in Guanacaste in Costa Rica. And then I left, I came back to Honduras and helped take these people I had trained to their villages. And came home and we were going to get married and then we were going to go back to Honduras. And I didn't even bring anything home. I left my stuff down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were going to go back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to go back. And then what happened was Peace Corps Washington. So the Peace Corps director had, you know, this was a three year contract. The rep positions were for three years. Peace Corps Washington wouldn't approve the contract for three years. They would only approve it to finish out the term of the guy who had left, which was one year. And Gerry was like, I'm not going to go down there for one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For one year, huh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:855", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.964061145824481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he really liked Gerry, really liked him. And so, so he had. What had happened was, Peace Corps was going to open up their own training in country. And they asked me if I would stay and be part of the training. And this guy had offered Gerry the position of the education rep because the education rep had been moved to the Dominican Republic. So when I, so when I. So the last three months I was there, I went to Bosico, which was this training center in Guanacaste in Costa Rica. And then I left, I came back to Honduras and helped take these people I had trained to their villages. And came home and we were going to get married and then we were going to go back to Honduras. And I didn't even bring anything home. I left my stuff down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were going to go back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to go back. And then what happened was Peace Corps Washington. So the Peace Corps director had, you know, this was a three year contract. The rep positions were for three years. Peace Corps Washington wouldn't approve the contract for three years. They would only approve it to finish out the term of the guy who had left, which was one year. And Gerry was like, I'm not going to go down there for one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For one year, huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And probably it was for the best. You know, it's hard to. Probably better for us to start our life in a new place for both of us than for him to try to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Come into your world."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:857", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5156234953605345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to go back. And then what happened was Peace Corps Washington. So the Peace Corps director had, you know, this was a three year contract. The rep positions were for three years. Peace Corps Washington wouldn't approve the contract for three years. They would only approve it to finish out the term of the guy who had left, which was one year. And Gerry was like, I'm not going to go down there for one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For one year, huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And probably it was for the best. You know, it's hard to. Probably better for us to start our life in a new place for both of us than for him to try to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Come into your world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But I was devastated. I was like, how do you go on with your life? How do you just walk out of this? You know, you walk out of this reality of these people whose lives are so, uh, oppressed. And you just go back to your comfortable life? So I was, you know, for a year, I was like just so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this is the year after you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:859", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.128470550400594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And probably it was for the best. You know, it's hard to. Probably better for us to start our life in a new place for both of us than for him to try to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Come into your world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But I was devastated. I was like, how do you go on with your life? How do you just walk out of this? You know, you walk out of this reality of these people whose lives are so, uh, oppressed. And you just go back to your comfortable life? So I was, you know, for a year, I was like just so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this is the year after you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I came back, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go when you came back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:861", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.698300611556215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But I was devastated. I was like, how do you go on with your life? How do you just walk out of this? You know, you walk out of this reality of these people whose lives are so, uh, oppressed. And you just go back to your comfortable life? So I was, you know, for a year, I was like just so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this is the year after you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I came back, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go when you came back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We came back to the Bay Area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're married?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:863", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.2203340128402385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I came back, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go when you came back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We came back to the Bay Area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got married in Spokane at my parents’ house in August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how nice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:865", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.800371125378042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We came back to the Bay Area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got married in Spokane at my parents’ house in August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we came down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was how long after leaving Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:867", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.222634583753381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got married in Spokane at my parents’ house in August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we came down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was how long after leaving Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left in July. My sister. My sister came down and we had, we took the bus. We were going to take the bus all the way to LA. We got to Mexico City and my sister."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean coming up from Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:869", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.691816204170423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we came down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was how long after leaving Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left in July. My sister. My sister came down and we had, we took the bus. We were going to take the bus all the way to LA. We got to Mexico City and my sister."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean coming up from Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're together with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:871", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.213129115744914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left in July. My sister. My sister came down and we had, we took the bus. We were going to take the bus all the way to LA. We got to Mexico City and my sister."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean coming up from Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're together with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My sister."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your sister? Not Jerry at this point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:875", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.324850760178907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My sister."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your sister? Not Jerry at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Jerry was in Washington, D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was finishing his job in Washington, D.C. And somy sister had a boyfriend in Washington, D.C. She came to Honduras, spent a couple of weeks, and then we took the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you're going up through."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:877", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.91650084464323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Jerry was in Washington, D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was finishing his job in Washington, D.C. And somy sister had a boyfriend in Washington, D.C. She came to Honduras, spent a couple of weeks, and then we took the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you're going up through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We came through Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "El Salvador, Guatemala."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:879", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.573889827381366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was finishing his job in Washington, D.C. And somy sister had a boyfriend in Washington, D.C. She came to Honduras, spent a couple of weeks, and then we took the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you're going up through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We came through Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "El Salvador, Guatemala."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We spent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Up through Mexico."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:883", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.004802256026378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We spent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Up through Mexico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we were going to go to LA and take the bus, I mean, and then fly from LA to Washington, D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we got to, as far as Mexico City and my sister was as sick as a dog. She'd gotten sick in El Salvador and everything in Mexico was so much more expensive than it had been in the Central America, even though it was much cheaper than the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but still. And you're on a Peace Corps living?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:885", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.783113617807086, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we were going to go to LA and take the bus, I mean, and then fly from LA to Washington, D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we got to, as far as Mexico City and my sister was as sick as a dog. She'd gotten sick in El Salvador and everything in Mexico was so much more expensive than it had been in the Central America, even though it was much cheaper than the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but still. And you're on a Peace Corps living?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't have much."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:893", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.338536225891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a brand new hotel. Brand new. But, you know, it was obviously a house of prostitution. People were. And we were just like, oh, let's go home. So then we flew to Washington, D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I spent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To Washington?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that's where her, that's where Gerry was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And that's where her boyfriend was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:897", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.183378056655554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that's where her, that's where Gerry was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And that's where her boyfriend was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Her boyfriend was, yeah. So then I stayed in Washington. That was in, that was like I think early July, maybe mid-July. And we got married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of '73?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of '73, and then we, I stayed there and then went home. We got married on August 25th, so I must have stayed there about a month. And then went home and we got married in Spokane and then we came down to the Bay Area to look for jobs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then you have the rest of your life, which won't fit into this particular interview about your Peace Corps. But thinking back on Peace Corps, um, it certainly seems as though those, the experience you had in Honduras would have pointed you in a somewhat of a new direction."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:905", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.367288609443001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I, and then I found this program at Berkeley with public health education, which was exactly what I had been doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I got my master's there and worked in public health, first for the San Francisco Public Health Department and had some interesting jobs there for about eight years. And then we, um, one of which was at the time that the Southeast Asian refugees were coming in. So I had a really interesting job, which I didn't keep very long because, because I had babies and it was just too hard to work and do everything and commute. But it was a great job, very, where we were essentially, I was working with a public health nurse and we were taking people from the Vietnamese, Hmong, and Cambodian populations and they were going to be health outreach workers in their refugee communities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful, wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we moved to Anderson Valley, which is a tiny, rural, isolated community. At the time that we moved there, there were very few Mexican farm workers. There were some. And I got a job as the health educator at this rural public health clinic where I worked for eight years, and then I just got bored with it. In the meantime, the valley just exploded with vineyards and Mexican farmworkers. So I, you know, had this whole new life with Mexicans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Spanish was ever so much better having been."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:907", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.741431788270001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I got my master's there and worked in public health, first for the San Francisco Public Health Department and had some interesting jobs there for about eight years. And then we, um, one of which was at the time that the Southeast Asian refugees were coming in. So I had a really interesting job, which I didn't keep very long because, because I had babies and it was just too hard to work and do everything and commute. But it was a great job, very, where we were essentially, I was working with a public health nurse and we were taking people from the Vietnamese, Hmong, and Cambodian populations and they were going to be health outreach workers in their refugee communities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful, wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we moved to Anderson Valley, which is a tiny, rural, isolated community. At the time that we moved there, there were very few Mexican farm workers. There were some. And I got a job as the health educator at this rural public health clinic where I worked for eight years, and then I just got bored with it. In the meantime, the valley just exploded with vineyards and Mexican farmworkers. So I, you know, had this whole new life with Mexicans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Spanish was ever so much better having been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Spanish. Yeah. And by then I was. And then I, when I got bored with public health education, I decided to get a teaching credential and have been teaching Spanish. I started out doing Spanish and ESL and then pretty much just doing Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's what you're doing now?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:911", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1622614670000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Spanish. Yeah. And by then I was. And then I, when I got bored with public health education, I decided to get a teaching credential and have been teaching Spanish. I started out doing Spanish and ESL and then pretty much just doing Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's what you're doing now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, now I'm supposed to be retired. I retired from the high, well and also for four years we went to Hong Kong and I taught at an international school in Hong Kong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is very totally the antithesis of everything else I've ever done in my life. I mean, Hong Kong is so different. And it was with very wealthy, very privileged kids, but it was pretty fun for four years. And then we came back and so I retired five years ago and then I taught part time at the community college in Ukiah teaching Spanish. And then we went to Mexico to live for a year. And when I came back, I, um, I won't go into all the details, but what I'm doing right now is I'm teaching one class at the high school where kids are getting, it's through the college and kids are getting college credit. I've been doing that for two years, but I really want to be through with the high school. And just last year I started teaching adult ESL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's a joy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:917", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5943230000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's so fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So now I have two classes of adult ESL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I would like to continue doing and not do the high school anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:919", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7714700000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So now I have two classes of adult ESL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I would like to continue doing and not do the high school anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any further thoughts about Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:923", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1870000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any further thoughts about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the thing I think about in general. I think what the Peace Corps did for me, besides this professional, setting me on a direction professionally, was that I really is. I really think, and I tell this to kids all the time, you can't know yourself until you have lived outside your own culture. I mean, I really believe that. I, I, everything I look at, I look at differently because of that experience. My whole life was radically changed by that, by living outside my culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because you never know how your culture forms you until you live outside it. So you have no choice. You have no control over it. You have no power over it. You just are who your culture and your family make you. I mean, shape you, not make you, shape you. But when you live outside your culture, all of a sudden you realize that, oh. I always tell people, I remember waking up one day when the honeymoon was over and saying to myself, I am completely different than these people in every way. Which of course I wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps talks about culture shock. And that moment there two or three months into being there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:925", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.43, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the thing I think about in general. I think what the Peace Corps did for me, besides this professional, setting me on a direction professionally, was that I really is. I really think, and I tell this to kids all the time, you can't know yourself until you have lived outside your own culture. I mean, I really believe that. I, I, everything I look at, I look at differently because of that experience. My whole life was radically changed by that, by living outside my culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because you never know how your culture forms you until you live outside it. So you have no choice. You have no control over it. You have no power over it. You just are who your culture and your family make you. I mean, shape you, not make you, shape you. But when you live outside your culture, all of a sudden you realize that, oh. I always tell people, I remember waking up one day when the honeymoon was over and saying to myself, I am completely different than these people in every way. Which of course I wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps talks about culture shock. And that moment there two or three months into being there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your eyes open up and you're thinking, whoa."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00037:927", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because you never know how your culture forms you until you live outside it. So you have no choice. You have no control over it. You have no power over it. You just are who your culture and your family make you. I mean, shape you, not make you, shape you. But when you live outside your culture, all of a sudden you realize that, oh. I always tell people, I remember waking up one day when the honeymoon was over and saying to myself, I am completely different than these people in every way. Which of course I wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps talks about culture shock. And that moment there two or three months into being there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your eyes open up and you're thinking, whoa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my God. I was like, my concept of time is different. My concept of what it means to be a human, even what it means to be a human being. And my control over my destiny is different. Certainly my concept of what it means to be a woman is different. Then when you've had that experience, you can pick and choose what you want to be. And I tell people, and I've never been on time since."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah! Thank you, Kathleen. This has been a real treasure listening to your story."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00150:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.31377183705368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Trench, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about the interaction between the systems guys like yourself and the people in the trench."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Technically there really wasn’t much interaction. I mean, of course we knew each other, and we usually suffered through their seemingly endless debriefings during simulations, but when we needed to, we’d talk to them. I don’t know. I guess always there was a bit of competition there, but the competition was kind of subtle because there really wasn’t much interface between our particular systems and the flight dynamics guys.\\n\\n About the only thing we had to do was arrange our water to put it where they wanted the weight, and I don’t know that they even paid much attention to when we vented water back then, but basically that was it. We had to kind of understand. By osmosis you pick up some of the stuff that they do. Of course, on a personal level you knew each other, and sometimes you’d pick on them for lacking so much in brevity. But this was a fairly small organization, Flight Control Division, and so you knew most of those people. That’s about my recollection of it, I mean, without getting into the games they used to play."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I understand if you don’t want to share those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don’t remember that we had any unflattering names for those guys in particular. I don’t know. They were kind of in their world and we were in ours, and the worlds just kind of touched each other peripherally. It wasn’t much, at least from the environmental electrical systems standpoint. The propulsion guys may have had a lot more interface with them, because they relying on the GNC [guidance, navigation, and control] guys, and then GNC was fairly related to those guys. They at least had some kind of understanding of what they were doing there.\\n\\n Your next question? Did I answer that adequately?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, it just seems that the Mission Control Center, no matter where in the control room you sat, was full of personalities."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00150:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 35.351609404145165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I recollect, didn’t we fly a Block One spacecraft before? Didn’t we actually fly a manned Block One or did we not fly one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. Apollo 1 was going to be the first time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, actually the Apollo fire happened while I was working elsewhere. I didn’t actually get in the ECLSS world until then, but, yes, in general you would learn both those. While I was over there, I was learning that system, yes. I don’t really have much recollection of the Block I, though. I guess I’d have to go back and refresh my memory even on Block II, although there’s things I remember about it because I remember the events. There’s things that stick in your mind, for whatever reason. But I guess the short answer is, yes, we would have learned both of them. I went away from that world for a while, and so when I come back, it was Block Two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were away, was this when you were working on some of the early payloads that you had mentioned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us about that year, what sort of work was involved in that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00150:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 34.83512156016129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, actually the Apollo fire happened while I was working elsewhere. I didn’t actually get in the ECLSS world until then, but, yes, in general you would learn both those. While I was over there, I was learning that system, yes. I don’t really have much recollection of the Block I, though. I guess I’d have to go back and refresh my memory even on Block II, although there’s things I remember about it because I remember the events. There’s things that stick in your mind, for whatever reason. But I guess the short answer is, yes, we would have learned both of them. I went away from that world for a while, and so when I come back, it was Block Two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were away, was this when you were working on some of the early payloads that you had mentioned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us about that year, what sort of work was involved in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, basically, of course, there weren’t many payloads to begin with. Probably we were talking not necessarily—well, even, I don’t know when they got around to flying, but basically we were trying to track down, understand. It was the same type of thing. It was just systems world or at least basically a systems world. We were trying to understand the payload, how it worked, what demand it put on the system, and what the people wanted out of it. Basically so that we could provide the same sort of insight into it or as much as possible as the systems guys did.\\n\\n The only one I can specifically remember, and I don’t remember what it was, but the American Science and Engineering had a payload that we went up and spent a few days finding out about up in Cambridge, Massachusetts, the section head and I, [T.K.] Sulmeisters. But that’s the only one I recollect, honestly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These ones that were intended to be integrated with the Apollo spacecraft or used on the lunar surface?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00150:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.59457951129032, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us about that year, what sort of work was involved in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, basically, of course, there weren’t many payloads to begin with. Probably we were talking not necessarily—well, even, I don’t know when they got around to flying, but basically we were trying to track down, understand. It was the same type of thing. It was just systems world or at least basically a systems world. We were trying to understand the payload, how it worked, what demand it put on the system, and what the people wanted out of it. Basically so that we could provide the same sort of insight into it or as much as possible as the systems guys did.\\n\\n The only one I can specifically remember, and I don’t remember what it was, but the American Science and Engineering had a payload that we went up and spent a few days finding out about up in Cambridge, Massachusetts, the section head and I, [T.K.] Sulmeisters. But that’s the only one I recollect, honestly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These ones that were intended to be integrated with the Apollo spacecraft or used on the lunar surface?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, basically I think they were pretty early stuff like for the Apollo spacecraft itself, not lunar surface things. I don’t think I ever, ever did any work on the LM [lunar module], payloads or otherwise, so it’d be things that would be flown on Apollo spacecraft, the command service module."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thinking about the preparation for Apollo flights, they had the 2TV-1 test of the Apollo command module inside of the space environment simulation laboratory [SESL]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00150:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 41.7717550125448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, basically, of course, there weren’t many payloads to begin with. Probably we were talking not necessarily—well, even, I don’t know when they got around to flying, but basically we were trying to track down, understand. It was the same type of thing. It was just systems world or at least basically a systems world. We were trying to understand the payload, how it worked, what demand it put on the system, and what the people wanted out of it. Basically so that we could provide the same sort of insight into it or as much as possible as the systems guys did.\\n\\n The only one I can specifically remember, and I don’t remember what it was, but the American Science and Engineering had a payload that we went up and spent a few days finding out about up in Cambridge, Massachusetts, the section head and I, [T.K.] Sulmeisters. But that’s the only one I recollect, honestly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These ones that were intended to be integrated with the Apollo spacecraft or used on the lunar surface?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, basically I think they were pretty early stuff like for the Apollo spacecraft itself, not lunar surface things. I don’t think I ever, ever did any work on the LM [lunar module], payloads or otherwise, so it’d be things that would be flown on Apollo spacecraft, the command service module."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thinking about the preparation for Apollo flights, they had the 2TV-1 test of the Apollo command module inside of the space environment simulation laboratory [SESL]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00150:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 44.19083890282756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, basically I think they were pretty early stuff like for the Apollo spacecraft itself, not lunar surface things. I don’t think I ever, ever did any work on the LM [lunar module], payloads or otherwise, so it’d be things that would be flown on Apollo spacecraft, the command service module."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thinking about the preparation for Apollo flights, they had the 2TV-1 test of the Apollo command module inside of the space environment simulation laboratory [SESL]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I supported it from the MOD [Mission Operations Directorate] standpoint. It was basically an engineering function, but we did support it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did that support involve?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00150:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 25, "return_to_go": 49.10093211425284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I supported it from the MOD [Mission Operations Directorate] standpoint. It was basically an engineering function, but we did support it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did that support involve?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, basically just watching what they did. We didn’t really participate in the decision-making or anything like that. We might have discussed it with the folks over there, but basically they’d just give us a seat so we could learn about the way the system worked in that vacuum test.\\n\\n I think probably there were some things obviously that changed. For example, we originally intended to—the fuel cells produced water. That’s one of the by-products of generating electricity. We stored the water and used it for drinking. It was pure water, other than it might have a little hydrogen in it. But the fuel cells produced more water than the crew could drink, so eventually the tank filled up and we had to get rid of it. The original design, we’d let the tank fill up and as it filled up, we’d just let it dribble overboard. We had a little nozzle, and it dribbled overboard. We found out we’d do that and it froze. So we changed our operating procedure to do periodic dumps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other things that I had noticed from that test was that I think it was due to the environmental control system that you would get a lot of condensation buildup inside the spacecraft on some of the cooling pipes, for instance, and then they saw that same phenomenon on Apollo 7, and they would occasionally have to vacuum up the water that was around the cabin."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00150:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 35.499058244555464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I mean, it wasn’t so much, we didn’t really have anything going on, other than that fact that our stuff was—I mean, none of the events that happened happened just then, but still there’s you had the com stuff going on at least you had to deal with.\\n\\n Anyway, I guess basically what else had to do was we didn’t have a command system for switching the antenna, so we had to voice up to the crew every so often to switch antennas opposite omni. That may have been my participation in that, but anyway, that happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The crew’s attitudes, I guess, has become one of the things that Apollo 7’s most well known for now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would imagine. I think that that set the tone for practically all the following. Well, I’m speculating now, because I don’t know. You hear rumors about stuff, but it seemed like that there were certain terms were never mentioned again in flight. I don’t think that they ever mentioned certain Disney characters again in flight, at least not in describing actions that it was desired to be done. But I mean beyond that, I don’t know anything about it. I think if I were going to give you my opinion, yes, it was kind of a watershed flight in that regard. But we received no formal information on the results of anything that happened after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ll leave it at that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would be very hesitant to even voice rumors that we heard. I don’t want to do that, if you don’t mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a problem. One of the other questions before we go on to the rest of the Apollo flights, you had talked about how your branch had become a combination of the Gemini systems and the CSM [Command and Service Module] systems. So I was wondering about the –"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00150:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 38.33228693839496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would imagine. I think that that set the tone for practically all the following. Well, I’m speculating now, because I don’t know. You hear rumors about stuff, but it seemed like that there were certain terms were never mentioned again in flight. I don’t think that they ever mentioned certain Disney characters again in flight, at least not in describing actions that it was desired to be done. But I mean beyond that, I don’t know anything about it. I think if I were going to give you my opinion, yes, it was kind of a watershed flight in that regard. But we received no formal information on the results of anything that happened after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ll leave it at that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would be very hesitant to even voice rumors that we heard. I don’t want to do that, if you don’t mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a problem. One of the other questions before we go on to the rest of the Apollo flights, you had talked about how your branch had become a combination of the Gemini systems and the CSM [Command and Service Module] systems. So I was wondering about the –"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I said that, I mean, actually by that time Gemini was over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. So I am backing up in time a little bit here. So what I was wondering about is the mixture of people like yourself, who had been studying the Apollo systems, but didn’t necessarily have the console experience, and then the Gemini people coming in to Apollo, who had worked on console for these Gemini flights, but hadn’t necessarily been studying the Apollo systems as closely as some of the other people."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00150:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 42.59142993154995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would be very hesitant to even voice rumors that we heard. I don’t want to do that, if you don’t mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a problem. One of the other questions before we go on to the rest of the Apollo flights, you had talked about how your branch had become a combination of the Gemini systems and the CSM [Command and Service Module] systems. So I was wondering about the –"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I said that, I mean, actually by that time Gemini was over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. So I am backing up in time a little bit here. So what I was wondering about is the mixture of people like yourself, who had been studying the Apollo systems, but didn’t necessarily have the console experience, and then the Gemini people coming in to Apollo, who had worked on console for these Gemini flights, but hadn’t necessarily been studying the Apollo systems as closely as some of the other people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t recollect any rancor there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess I’m asking what you were able to learn, what each group was able to learn from the other."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00150:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 51.34744435993821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t recollect any rancor there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess I’m asking what you were able to learn, what each group was able to learn from the other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be kind of hard for me to say because about not long after that, I went off to work this payload thing, so I really wasn’t there much longer. It may have been that formal reorganization that did that, for all I know. I’d have to go back.\\n\\n One of the things I don’t do well is to—I remember events happening, but I don’t time-tag them, so I can’t tell you exactly when. So basically I was gone a year, so I’m sure that they did. I mean, you could not have not done that. As long as there wasn’t any animosity created or there wasn’t any resentment because these guys come in and became the prime guys for the job you was working for. I didn’t hear of any of that, but, then again, I wasn’t there.\\n\\n I think basically it was mainly the Gemini guys that started out with the Apollo program, for the most part. I can’t remember. I don’t know where Clint Burton came in. I don’t remember when he came into the thing. But John and Rod, they were both Gemini guys. Initially there was a guy named Dick [Richard D.] Glover, but he went off and did something else. He was the section head for a while, but he went off and did something else before we ever started flying, and Rod took his job. That almost had to be that way, that you had some interplay between the guys. I can’t really tell you whether there was any feuding or not, because I was outside of there at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You had talked a little bit earlier about Apollo 8, how you weren’t really working it, but you road side saddle, as you described it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any other memories of that flight or even the decision to send Apollo 8 out there without the redundancy of the lunar module?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00150:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.054955405467012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. John was sent off, taken off. I think he was one of the team—I think we had four teams. I think they pulled one team out of rotation, and they went off and worked it, and we then had three teams. We were there, even though we didn’t have much to do. I don’t know whether it was John’s team. It seemed like Kranz went off to work this thing, possibly, and Sy was on Kranz’s team, but John was pulled off. I think he may have been on [Milton L.] Windler’s team.\\n\\n We had too many 13s going on in that program, not that I’m superstitious, mind you. But anyway, that’s the way it worked out. We basically didn’t have anything to do until it got ready to enter and do reentry.\\n\\n You got any other questions you want to ask?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work the reentry on that or powering the command module back up, those critical phases?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don’t remember. I probably was there, even if I didn’t work it specific. I don’t remember who was prime on the console."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned a little bit earlier some of the fixes they made because of Apollo 13, or you alluded to them. Did you have any responsibility with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was in the control center the whole time. They went off and did that. Engineering went off and did that, and John participated in it, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess I meant as a response like adding the extra cryo tank."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.517265706755147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We really appreciate it. I wanted to ask you about your background, if you could give us just an overview and briefly explain how you got involved with the Orion Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m an active astronaut with the Astronaut Office here at NASA Johnson Space Center. I’ve flown three times in the Space Shuttle. My last flight was STS-135, which was the final Space Shuttle mission. Between missions in the Astronaut Office we take on technical responsibilities or technical jobs we call it. After I got done with the PR [Public Relations] stuff after the end of that mission it was time to find a new technical job. I wanted to come to the Exploration Branch and work potentially on Orion, so I did. Probably in all honesty I really got mostly involved in about March of 2012, when I became the astronaut representative to the Orion Program. As astronaut representative to the Orion Program, I basically represent the interest of the Astronaut Office in the Orion Program and give advice and opinions to the Orion Program on various issues that come up. I’m kind of a part of Mark Geyer’s staff to a certain extent. I represent the Astronaut Office, but I also serve on his staff to help him make decisions for the Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of those key issues that you were weighing in on? Do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They come and go. The main things we’re worried about is the safety of the vehicle. We’re looking more toward the longer term of the vehicles that are going to be human-rated for flying humans on. Exploration Mission-2 mission is the first mission. We’ve been looking at how the test program sets up to prepare for that mission, how the systems are developed, and how safe the systems are that are going to be on that vehicle.\\n\\n We go through all the different developmental boards and developmental meetings. We have a number of engineers who work for the Astronaut Office who help me out as the Orion rep. They bring issues that they’ve come across to my attention, and we work through those issues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you pick out an issue or two that really stand out in your mind before EFT [Exploration Flight Test]-1?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.51514284784586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They come and go. The main things we’re worried about is the safety of the vehicle. We’re looking more toward the longer term of the vehicles that are going to be human-rated for flying humans on. Exploration Mission-2 mission is the first mission. We’ve been looking at how the test program sets up to prepare for that mission, how the systems are developed, and how safe the systems are that are going to be on that vehicle.\\n\\n We go through all the different developmental boards and developmental meetings. We have a number of engineers who work for the Astronaut Office who help me out as the Orion rep. They bring issues that they’ve come across to my attention, and we work through those issues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you pick out an issue or two that really stand out in your mind before EFT [Exploration Flight Test]-1?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not necessarily before EFT-1, because EFT-1 system was unmanned. It was the first one, and there’s going to be another unmanned mission. Most of the issues, we’ve basically given them our opinions on them potentially, but we would not get in their way [for the unmanned missions]. If they wanted to take more risk on the first mission, that was fine with us. That helps develop the system. We were just helping along the way and giving our expertise in various things. For the most part trying to let them run as fast as they could because these were unmanned flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had flown three Shuttle missions as you pointed out. What did you bring from the Shuttle Program that you applied to Orion? Was there anything in particular?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it was familiarity with how we did things with the Shuttle. How we handled redundancy, how we handled safety, how we handled operations. How did we launch the crews? How did we recover them? How did we talk to them? All the different aspects of how you deal with the crew in orbit and how you keep them safe. I brought those experiences back to the Orion Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about some of the key decisions that you think impacted things like development or policy, things of that nature, for Orion."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.09276894795785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it was familiarity with how we did things with the Shuttle. How we handled redundancy, how we handled safety, how we handled operations. How did we launch the crews? How did we recover them? How did we talk to them? All the different aspects of how you deal with the crew in orbit and how you keep them safe. I brought those experiences back to the Orion Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about some of the key decisions that you think impacted things like development or policy, things of that nature, for Orion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of the things were dealing with—how we made the heat shield. That was a big issue. How that was developed, how it worked out, and how it was tested. I know a lot of the engineers got into a lot more depth than I did, but I visited the Textron plant at least twice that was making the heat shield, actually doing it manually. It was a very labor-intensive process to build that heat shield. There were some issues with the heat shield cracking and things like that they had to deal with. They figured out ways to repair things that weren’t turning out the way they planned. My job, again since it was an unmanned vehicle, was to go up there, understand it, and just show the flag so to speak, just show people that we’re interested. Because eventually we’ll have a heat shield that we’re going to use for a crewed flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you weigh in on anything like operations or cost?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much for EFT-1, no, but for the follow-on vehicles I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about your perspective in terms of affordability and this movement toward a lower cost development for Orion. How it’s impacted things, and how it was implemented as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 26.769743275508723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of the things were dealing with—how we made the heat shield. That was a big issue. How that was developed, how it worked out, and how it was tested. I know a lot of the engineers got into a lot more depth than I did, but I visited the Textron plant at least twice that was making the heat shield, actually doing it manually. It was a very labor-intensive process to build that heat shield. There were some issues with the heat shield cracking and things like that they had to deal with. They figured out ways to repair things that weren’t turning out the way they planned. My job, again since it was an unmanned vehicle, was to go up there, understand it, and just show the flag so to speak, just show people that we’re interested. Because eventually we’ll have a heat shield that we’re going to use for a crewed flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you weigh in on anything like operations or cost?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much for EFT-1, no, but for the follow-on vehicles I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about your perspective in terms of affordability and this movement toward a lower cost development for Orion. How it’s impacted things, and how it was implemented as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In respect to what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Orion, things have been very tight compared to say earlier programs. How did you see that being implemented?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.966381417231915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much for EFT-1, no, but for the follow-on vehicles I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about your perspective in terms of affordability and this movement toward a lower cost development for Orion. How it’s impacted things, and how it was implemented as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In respect to what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Orion, things have been very tight compared to say earlier programs. How did you see that being implemented?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a challenge to try to do things cheaper. A lot of times that can impact safety. We just try to say “Hey, [here] are the changes they’re trying to make, do we think they impact safety to a significant degree.” Not having enough money to test things early is a significant hurdle we have to get over. For instance the first three missions, EFT-1, EM [Exploration Mission]-1, EM-2, it’s a stair-step fashion. [EFT-1 was] a very basic vehicle. [It didn’t] have a lot of systems on it. EM-1 has some of the systems but still doesn’t have all the life support systems that a crew member would go. You couldn’t put a crew member on EM-1. EM-2 has all the systems.\\n\\n If you had a normal funding profile or a robust funding profile, what you’d do is you’d have EM-1, the first Orion to fly on SLS [Space Launch System], you’d have that be almost identical to EM-2, the second mission, which has the crew on it, because you want to test everything before you get the crew on there. But we can’t do that because we don’t have the money and the time to develop all those things in time for EM-1 at this point. So it’s a challenge. We try to make sure that the testing of the things that don’t fly on EM-1 are tested out on the ground adequately but with a reduced funding profile it’s a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any concerns as a crew member that those things aren’t being tested sufficiently?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.501417825665474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Due to cost and schedule, yes. To make the change would have been expensive. We’re trying to do it now a time where it would be cost-effective and not hit the schedule too bad. We’ll see where it ends up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s an interesting quote from Mark Geyer. He said, “We learned to persevere,” meaning the Orion Program. Would you agree with that or disagree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, persevere from a financial standpoint I think. We were constantly being asked to do what we needed to do with less. What could we give up? The funding profile as I understand it, they can tell you better than I can. I’m not expert at it, but the funding profile is pretty flat. Normally with a research and development program like this you have a funding profile that goes up high at the beginning when you’re doing the research and development, and then it stabilizes. Here we’re trying to build this whole thing with a fairly flat funding profile, and it’s not easy. We did learn to persevere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a big challenge. I understand that this was a multi-Center program management model. Did you do work with other Centers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a little bit with Glenn Research Center [Cleveland, Ohio] when they worked on the propulsion system and European service module. We worked with them a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to go over to Europe and then also to Ohio?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.22379758407275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, persevere from a financial standpoint I think. We were constantly being asked to do what we needed to do with less. What could we give up? The funding profile as I understand it, they can tell you better than I can. I’m not expert at it, but the funding profile is pretty flat. Normally with a research and development program like this you have a funding profile that goes up high at the beginning when you’re doing the research and development, and then it stabilizes. Here we’re trying to build this whole thing with a fairly flat funding profile, and it’s not easy. We did learn to persevere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a big challenge. I understand that this was a multi-Center program management model. Did you do work with other Centers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a little bit with Glenn Research Center [Cleveland, Ohio] when they worked on the propulsion system and European service module. We worked with them a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to go over to Europe and then also to Ohio?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we went to the preliminary design review of the ESA service module, the European service module."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You played the same role there that you did at the contractor facilities?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 30.248663982303054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a little bit with Glenn Research Center [Cleveland, Ohio] when they worked on the propulsion system and European service module. We worked with them a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to go over to Europe and then also to Ohio?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we went to the preliminary design review of the ESA service module, the European service module."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You played the same role there that you did at the contractor facilities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too much there. Most of that was just technical meetings to just go over the technical baseline of what they planned on doing and get our comments in about what we thought of the design."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in this role we had a presidential election. Did you play any role in going to Congress or talking with any members about the importance of the Orion Project?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.942959980336727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we went to the preliminary design review of the ESA service module, the European service module."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You played the same role there that you did at the contractor facilities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too much there. Most of that was just technical meetings to just go over the technical baseline of what they planned on doing and get our comments in about what we thought of the design."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in this role we had a presidential election. Did you play any role in going to Congress or talking with any members about the importance of the Orion Project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly we did that during our postflight of STS-135, so that was back in 2011. After each mission we usually send the crews back to Washington, DC, to go to [NASA] Headquarters and to do a White House visit potentially, if that can be arranged. We also go up to the Hill and we talk to the congressmen and senators and just tell them about our flight. We’re able to speak our mind about how important we think the future programs are. We did a lot of that during our postflight visits. I’m trying to think if we did any outreach since then. Not a lot, but occasionally we will do stuff like that, but we didn’t have to testify in Congress or anything. Most of it is more informal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any meetings with [U.S. Senator Richard] Shelby or [U.S. Senator] Bill Nelson?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.603288867040806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too much there. Most of that was just technical meetings to just go over the technical baseline of what they planned on doing and get our comments in about what we thought of the design."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in this role we had a presidential election. Did you play any role in going to Congress or talking with any members about the importance of the Orion Project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly we did that during our postflight of STS-135, so that was back in 2011. After each mission we usually send the crews back to Washington, DC, to go to [NASA] Headquarters and to do a White House visit potentially, if that can be arranged. We also go up to the Hill and we talk to the congressmen and senators and just tell them about our flight. We’re able to speak our mind about how important we think the future programs are. We did a lot of that during our postflight visits. I’m trying to think if we did any outreach since then. Not a lot, but occasionally we will do stuff like that, but we didn’t have to testify in Congress or anything. Most of it is more informal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any meetings with [U.S. Senator Richard] Shelby or [U.S. Senator] Bill Nelson?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did meet Bill Nelson when the EFT-1 vehicle came down to the Kennedy Space Center [Florida], when the shell just got to the Kennedy Space Center, before they started outfitting it. Bill Nelson was down there with a lot of the program managers and Charlie [Charles F.] Bolden, so he was down there at the same time. We interacted with him a little bit there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you know about NASA’s alliance and agreements with ESA to build the service module and have that partnership? Can you share some details with us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.157751956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the main ones is how difficult it is to recover the vehicle in the ocean. They were doing it very methodically and took their time to do it. Recovering that vehicle was not easy. We have to look at ways we can recover it quicker, because we don’t want the crew to sit in that vehicle for a long time in the ocean, because you can get seasick very very quickly sitting in that vehicle after you’ve been in space for several days. We got to nail that down. I think people understand that. We’re putting a lot of renewed attention on the recovery of the vehicle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much attention was given to the Apollo Program lessons learned and Shuttle Program, the history? Did you go back and look at those things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of it, especially with recovery, that’s one place where the Apollo Program was very helpful. How did they do it? What lessons did they learn? We still have some of the engineers around who worked that Program and worked Shuttle obviously too. There’s a lot of us around from that.\\n\\n We do try to make sure we make informed decisions of, “Hey, what did people do in the past.” That’s another way we compare stuff. We talk about safety and redundancy. What are the historical systems? How did they handle the propulsion system? How did they handle the recovery systems? How did Apollo handle the heat shield? We try to really learn from the lessons that they learned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to ask Sandra if she has any questions for you.\n\nYes. Just touching on that. Like you said, when they landed they did have problems with the uprighting system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That could have led to problems if there had been humans on board. I know they have been working on that and going back to look at Apollo. You mentioned the life support systems earlier, not being on EM-1, then on EM-2. Are they taking those lessons learned from the other programs and Shuttle? You mentioned that that was a concern. I guess how much are they looking at these previous programs with those life support systems and applying it to make sure that it’s something that they feel is going to work right the first time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:84", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.24, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a good question. I’d have to know when it arrived at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] the first time. I could look back on that somehow. I would estimate a couple years almost. Let’s think about it now. We’ll do it backwards. Right now the EM-1 is at the Cape already. It’s a good two years from flying. It can be about two years or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What building are they doing that in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The O&C Building, the Operations and Checkout Facility. When I first flew in space our payload was S0, the central portion of the truss. It was being checked out in the O&C Building, right underneath crew quarters. I remember I’d stay in crew quarters, and we’d go down and look at it. Now Orion was being processed in the O&C Building, that’s pretty neat. Same building and process. We just move on. It’s amazing. If you work long enough on these projects you see the progress that’s made. I remember when the Space Station Processing Facility was just full of Space Station hardware, especially after Columbia, just waiting to get launched. All of a sudden it all gets cleared out and it’s all up in space and put together and is working like a champ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s amazing.\n\nYou’re still an active astronaut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you have plans to be in the crew?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:86", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The O&C Building, the Operations and Checkout Facility. When I first flew in space our payload was S0, the central portion of the truss. It was being checked out in the O&C Building, right underneath crew quarters. I remember I’d stay in crew quarters, and we’d go down and look at it. Now Orion was being processed in the O&C Building, that’s pretty neat. Same building and process. We just move on. It’s amazing. If you work long enough on these projects you see the progress that’s made. I remember when the Space Station Processing Facility was just full of Space Station hardware, especially after Columbia, just waiting to get launched. All of a sudden it all gets cleared out and it’s all up in space and put together and is working like a champ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s amazing.\n\nYou’re still an active astronaut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you have plans to be in the crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a possibility, but I’ve flown three times. It’s probably unlikely I’ll get a chance to fly again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you’d like to though."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you have plans to be in the crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a possibility, but I’ve flown three times. It’s probably unlikely I’ll get a chance to fly again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you’d like to though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would like to fly again. Now whether my family would like me to fly again is a different story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s always a good question.\n\nAre you still working Orion issues here in Flight Ops?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00637:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a possibility, but I’ve flown three times. It’s probably unlikely I’ll get a chance to fly again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you’d like to though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would like to fly again. Now whether my family would like me to fly again is a different story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s always a good question.\n\nAre you still working Orion issues here in Flight Ops?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In this position now I’ve moved over from the Astronaut Office, and I’m the Assistant Director for Operations. BK [Brian K. Kelly], who’s the Chief of Flight Operations Directorate, I’m his astronaut to work various issues from an operations perspective, if it’s ISS, Orion, Commercial Crew. It’s a lot of fun. I get to work a lot of different stuff, but I also get pulled into a lot of the Orion discussions. “Hey, you were in on this, what do you think about this?” It’s fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you very much for your time today."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00010:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 31.681639599398935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. The fact is, most of them ended up in my branch. Gene [L. Eugene] Lundgren, Bill [William M.] Schroeder, Charlie [Charles H.] Provine, I think Warner, a guy by the name of Fred [Frederick W.] Warner. They all worked for NASA. Well, they worked for the Corps of Engineers over at Roswell [New Mexico]. And then when the Corps of Engineers came over to do the job west of the mountains, they came with them, but they went ahead and went to work for NASA, but they were with the Corps. It was kind of confusing because here they were NASA employees, and they were actually overseeing the construction for the Corps. And then as soon as they would turn them over to the facilities, the guy that was responsible for that system in the Corps, he was NASA, he would transfer over to my branch. So it was a little bit of a problem.\\n\\n When they finally completed the system, that is when they went in and formed another branch, the Facilities Branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was the facility finally complete? When were you rid of this four-headed monster that you talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would guess 1966, maybe [latter part of] ’65. As I said before we started, I can remember most of the things that happened. I just can’t remember when they happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, certainly. Certainly. We all have that problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was probably ’65 or possibly early ’66, but probably ’65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe for us the Army’s relationship with the White Sands Test Facility during the Apollo Program. Did they provide any administrative support, for instance, for the program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00010:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.75737733266548, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would guess 1966, maybe [latter part of] ’65. As I said before we started, I can remember most of the things that happened. I just can’t remember when they happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, certainly. Certainly. We all have that problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was probably ’65 or possibly early ’66, but probably ’65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe for us the Army’s relationship with the White Sands Test Facility during the Apollo Program. Did they provide any administrative support, for instance, for the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For other groups, they may have provided more than they did the Mechanical Systems Branch. From the Mechanical Systems Branch’s viewpoint or standpoint, we were practically independent. We didn’t require support from WSMR, although eventually or through the years—I don’t remember it being right at first, but through the years we probably both supported each other, and the fact is, if you needed a crane, a heavy crane, we had one, but if we needed two to, say, lift some of our altitude chambers, we would borrow a crane temporarily for three days or something. And likewise, we would send equipment over to them whenever they needed it. So we supported one another.\\n\\n They didn’t do any paperwork functions for us. We were entirely independent that way. They would clean the highway when it snowed. It doesn’t happen very often, but the mountain pass gets snowed in, and sometimes down to where the NASA facility was, so we relied on them to keep our roads clear. But other than that, we were pretty independent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the relationship between the Army and the test facility positive at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00010:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 34.174863702961645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was probably ’65 or possibly early ’66, but probably ’65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe for us the Army’s relationship with the White Sands Test Facility during the Apollo Program. Did they provide any administrative support, for instance, for the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For other groups, they may have provided more than they did the Mechanical Systems Branch. From the Mechanical Systems Branch’s viewpoint or standpoint, we were practically independent. We didn’t require support from WSMR, although eventually or through the years—I don’t remember it being right at first, but through the years we probably both supported each other, and the fact is, if you needed a crane, a heavy crane, we had one, but if we needed two to, say, lift some of our altitude chambers, we would borrow a crane temporarily for three days or something. And likewise, we would send equipment over to them whenever they needed it. So we supported one another.\\n\\n They didn’t do any paperwork functions for us. We were entirely independent that way. They would clean the highway when it snowed. It doesn’t happen very often, but the mountain pass gets snowed in, and sometimes down to where the NASA facility was, so we relied on them to keep our roads clear. But other than that, we were pretty independent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the relationship between the Army and the test facility positive at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it was always positive. Might not have been between the general and the manager, but as far as the people, the working people, most of them came from White Sands Missile Range, so there was a good relationship."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you provided support for the Apollo Program. Can you talk about the support that you specifically provided for this program, to land a man on the Moon? I know that you won, for instance, an award for testing the Apollo Program propulsion systems, but you mentioned that you primarily worked on support."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00010:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 40.41346772823633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our branch was responsible for it. We were the ones that designed all the test cells, and we designed the test cells first, and I would say that probably took six months. Then immediately upon the completion of that, we started testing remotely, and the fact is, from another building about 100 yards away, and that wasn’t very convenient, so we got additional funds to build a building right up next to the test cells. So that took, by the time we went through contracts, it probably took a total of a year and a half to finalize it. But we got the test cells themselves where we could still do the remote testing, I would say within six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve read that the White Sands Test Facility has actually tested 90 percent of everything that flew in Apollo and Space Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that it was easily that much. Maybe 95. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty impressive record."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did a good job for them, I think. I think White Sands did a good job for MSC in that area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned, just a few minutes ago, issues about safety. Could you talk about the safety program at White Sands Test Facility during the Apollo Program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 24.227730528045146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During our last interview, we ended by talking about your first flight, STS-41D, and today I’d like to talk about what you did between STS-41D and your next flight, 61C."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I was lucky enough to get assigned to be assistant to Mr. [George W. S.] Abbey, who was at the time Director of Flight Crew Operations. So I spent my time in Building 1, and basically being his assistant.\\n\\n It was interesting for a number of reasons, but in particular it was really my first exposure to kind of what goes on outside my organization. I had pretty much been working exclusively within the organization, within the Astronaut Office, and the things that we did at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida, Kennedy Space Center] and elsewhere, but I wasn’t really too familiar with a lot of the other senior managers at the center or what their organizations did, and so I was just lucky and felt fortunate that he had given me the chance to come up and do that. So it was a good broadening experience. And seeing how he did business as well, running FCOD [Flight Crew Operations Directorate]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did that until you were assigned, or were you already assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did that till I was assigned again. I was kind of—I don’t remember—seems like it was probably in the fall of [19]‘84, so I guess I did that—I didn’t have to do that too long before I got reassigned. And then, of course, I continued in that assignment till it was time to actually leave and go back to training. So just because you get an assignment doesn’t mean that you drop everything and start training full time. But it’s nice to know you’ve got one coming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you were assigned to 61C."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.990139503193333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, with the exception in those days, we were flying payload specialists more commonly than we do today, and sometimes the payload specialists would stay with the payload. In fact, of course, that was in many reasons why the payload specialists were flying, was for a specific payload. In fact, I remember we trained for a while with [Gregory B.] Greg Jarvis when we thought we were going to be flying with him, but the five NASA individuals stayed together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And along with those five NASA individuals, you had Congressman [Clarence William]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was going to fly on this one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, as you said, I think Greg Jarvis was assigned at first—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 24.43348833688148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was going to fly on this one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, as you said, I think Greg Jarvis was assigned at first—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a while—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then he switched out—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.5927648187572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, as you said, I think Greg Jarvis was assigned at first—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a while—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then he switched out—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and, and then we had [Robert J.] Bob Cenker, who was an RCA [Radio Corporation of America] engineer, who was flying, because they were flying, as I remember, some cameras, some payload bay cameras that flew—we also had, I think, an RCA satellite on board. So we had two payload specialists, Bob Cenker and Bill Nelson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how was it having a U.S.representative on this flight, assigned to this flight? Did it affect your training, or did it affect the mission in any way?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.769738687508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a while—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then he switched out—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and, and then we had [Robert J.] Bob Cenker, who was an RCA [Radio Corporation of America] engineer, who was flying, because they were flying, as I remember, some cameras, some payload bay cameras that flew—we also had, I think, an RCA satellite on board. So we had two payload specialists, Bob Cenker and Bill Nelson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how was it having a U.S.representative on this flight, assigned to this flight? Did it affect your training, or did it affect the mission in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The answer, most certainly, is sure. [Laughs] I guess it affected the training in some ways, because I don’t remember exactly when he was assigned, but it seems to me he was assigned fairly late in the flow. So he had a lot of catching up to do, and so it affected the crew training from that point of view. He also, of course, didn’t come to the flight with any experience like we did, I mean didn’t have ops experience, didn’t have previous spaceflight experience, and so it took resources from the crew to help Bill get through some of the training and keep an eye on him, and make sure his experience was going to be safe and successful.\\n\\n He also had demands on his time because he was still in office, and I remember he was going back to Washington [D.C.]. I assume that he went back only as often as he absolutely had to, because I’m sure he would have preferred to stay and train with us, but he was gone some, and I remember that was kind of a scheduling issue, to try to work around his schedule.\\n\\n Let’s see. Did you ask me—what was the other part of the question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, just how it affected your training and the flight itself, I mean, having him onboard."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 27.379614111807953, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, the flight itself. Yes, it’s actually kind of interesting, because we all suspected, although no one ever said, that because of the delays that we got into and the fact that, frankly, our payload [complement] wasn’t very robust, that were it not for his presence on the flight, we might have been canceled. We had one satellite and some other experiments. It was almost, as I recall, kind of a clearinghouse sale, if you will. I mean, we had a lot of GAS [Getaway Special] cans [canisters] and Hitchhiker payloads and a bunch of stuff that hadn’t been able to fly previously, and here came a flight that for whatever reason that I don’t remember, we only had one satellite and nothing else on board, so they were able to put some of this other stuff, which was important in that they had commitments, but in the great scheme of things, after we got into delays, you could conceive of somebody saying, “Well, you know, I’ll bet we can put that satellite somewhere else and just not fly this flight.” We wondered about that and always thought, without knowing for sure, that that might have happened if we hadn’t had a congressman, but this was his flight, and so we had some guarantee that it would happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’d get to go up one way or the other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s what we thought, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, as you mentioned, you had several delays. You had seven delays on this flight. What did you do during those times, I mean in between the delays? I mean, did you just continue to train? I think the flight originally was scheduled at some time in December and then—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, December 17th or 18th, as I recall, and then—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was a month later before you flew."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.522518711257819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that for a minute?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing I really remember about that is that as hard as it was to launch, it seemed to be equally hard to land. We were supposed to be the first flight to go back to KSC [Kennedy Space Center] after [Karol J.] Bo Bobko had blown a tire on 51-D, and the weather just didn’t cooperate. So they kept waving us off and making us wait another day to try to get back into KSC.\\n\\n And what I remember is that by the third day we had sort of run out of most everything, including film, and part of our training had been to look for spiral eddies near the equator, because the theory was, for whatever reason you didn’t see them near the equator, and Charlie was looking out the window and claimed to see one, and I told him, “Well, you’d better draw a picture of it, because we don’t have any film.” So we couldn’t take a photograph. But we were pretty much out of everything by then the end of the flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you just drew pictures of spiral eddies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we drew pictures of spiral eddies. That’s all we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And waited to land."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.136131901397576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing I really remember about that is that as hard as it was to launch, it seemed to be equally hard to land. We were supposed to be the first flight to go back to KSC [Kennedy Space Center] after [Karol J.] Bo Bobko had blown a tire on 51-D, and the weather just didn’t cooperate. So they kept waving us off and making us wait another day to try to get back into KSC.\\n\\n And what I remember is that by the third day we had sort of run out of most everything, including film, and part of our training had been to look for spiral eddies near the equator, because the theory was, for whatever reason you didn’t see them near the equator, and Charlie was looking out the window and claimed to see one, and I told him, “Well, you’d better draw a picture of it, because we don’t have any film.” So we couldn’t take a photograph. But we were pretty much out of everything by then the end of the flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you just drew pictures of spiral eddies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we drew pictures of spiral eddies. That’s all we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And waited to land."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, waited to land."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finally did land on that one."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.817924334886193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we drew pictures of spiral eddies. That’s all we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And waited to land."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, waited to land."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finally did land on that one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and that was finally in California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, not long after you landed, the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident happened. Do you remember where you were and what you were doing during that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.131027038762435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, waited to land."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finally did land on that one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and that was finally in California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, not long after you landed, the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident happened. Do you remember where you were and what you were doing during that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. I was, in fact, in Topeka, Kansas. I had been invited up after the flight to participate in Kansas Day, which is the 29th of January anniversary of Kansas’s statehood. So I was up there at the request of the governor, and I was going to do some speaking and go to the ball. I had just flown into the air base in Topeka, and they had actually let me go in the VIP room there and watch the launch on TV while I was waiting for—I don’t know if I was waiting for a ride, wherever I was going. So I was there when it happened.\\n\\n Right afterwards, we were all recalled to Houston, and I remember Joe [H.] Engel flew up and picked me up, and we flew back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your father was actually asked by the astronauts to speak at the Memorial."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.36780782084715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and that was finally in California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, not long after you landed, the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident happened. Do you remember where you were and what you were doing during that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. I was, in fact, in Topeka, Kansas. I had been invited up after the flight to participate in Kansas Day, which is the 29th of January anniversary of Kansas’s statehood. So I was up there at the request of the governor, and I was going to do some speaking and go to the ball. I had just flown into the air base in Topeka, and they had actually let me go in the VIP room there and watch the launch on TV while I was waiting for—I don’t know if I was waiting for a ride, wherever I was going. So I was there when it happened.\\n\\n Right afterwards, we were all recalled to Houston, and I remember Joe [H.] Engel flew up and picked me up, and we flew back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your father was actually asked by the astronauts to speak at the Memorial."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, George [Abbey], I think, had asked me if he would do that. So, yes, he was here as part of the memorial service on site. President [Ronald W.] Reagan and the Administrator came, and my dad was part of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that was an honor for him to be asked."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.742008689830165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. I was, in fact, in Topeka, Kansas. I had been invited up after the flight to participate in Kansas Day, which is the 29th of January anniversary of Kansas’s statehood. So I was up there at the request of the governor, and I was going to do some speaking and go to the ball. I had just flown into the air base in Topeka, and they had actually let me go in the VIP room there and watch the launch on TV while I was waiting for—I don’t know if I was waiting for a ride, wherever I was going. So I was there when it happened.\\n\\n Right afterwards, we were all recalled to Houston, and I remember Joe [H.] Engel flew up and picked me up, and we flew back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your father was actually asked by the astronauts to speak at the Memorial."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, George [Abbey], I think, had asked me if he would do that. So, yes, he was here as part of the memorial service on site. President [Ronald W.] Reagan and the Administrator came, and my dad was part of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that was an honor for him to be asked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it really was, and I think he still feels very honored and grateful to have had the opportunity to participate in something like that. A lot of the guys in the class had gotten to meet him, so it was, I think, of some comfort to have somebody involved that a lot of the astronauts had known. He had met a lot of them, so he had some kind of kinship with the bunch at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In [19]‘87, as part of the recovery after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , the STS 61-C crew, you supported the countdown demonstration test for the\\n\\n Atlantis\\n\\n ."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.26889854425574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, George [Abbey], I think, had asked me if he would do that. So, yes, he was here as part of the memorial service on site. President [Ronald W.] Reagan and the Administrator came, and my dad was part of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that was an honor for him to be asked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it really was, and I think he still feels very honored and grateful to have had the opportunity to participate in something like that. A lot of the guys in the class had gotten to meet him, so it was, I think, of some comfort to have somebody involved that a lot of the astronauts had known. He had met a lot of them, so he had some kind of kinship with the bunch at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In [19]‘87, as part of the recovery after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , the STS 61-C crew, you supported the countdown demonstration test for the\\n\\n Atlantis\\n\\n ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe that for us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.85433171583971, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it really was, and I think he still feels very honored and grateful to have had the opportunity to participate in something like that. A lot of the guys in the class had gotten to meet him, so it was, I think, of some comfort to have somebody involved that a lot of the astronauts had known. He had met a lot of them, so he had some kind of kinship with the bunch at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In [19]‘87, as part of the recovery after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , the STS 61-C crew, you supported the countdown demonstration test for the\\n\\n Atlantis\\n\\n ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe that for us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I think what they were really trying to do was, because it had been a while and probably would be a while yet before we flew anything, they wanted to process the vehicle kind of through the flow and get it out to the pad, and practice the countdown, and so that everybody could kind of rehearse the skills that they would need once we returned to flight. George asked or assigned—I don’t know that George ever asked—he probably directed us as the last crew to fly to go down and participate as the crew for that practice countdown. And we were happy to do that, and that was kind of a nice experience, to go down and be part of the team again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, since you were the last crew to fly before\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , what procedures had changed with this test compared to—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.615924128710787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe that for us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I think what they were really trying to do was, because it had been a while and probably would be a while yet before we flew anything, they wanted to process the vehicle kind of through the flow and get it out to the pad, and practice the countdown, and so that everybody could kind of rehearse the skills that they would need once we returned to flight. George asked or assigned—I don’t know that George ever asked—he probably directed us as the last crew to fly to go down and participate as the crew for that practice countdown. And we were happy to do that, and that was kind of a nice experience, to go down and be part of the team again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, since you were the last crew to fly before\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , what procedures had changed with this test compared to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know that really any procedures had changed. During that time, the whole program was looking at a whole bunch of things in terms of how to improve the safety of the system. So there were a lot of design changes, engineering changes, procedural changes that were being incorporated in the program before return to flight. But this test really was just an opportunity for the team to get back to thinking about launch procedures so they wouldn’t become rusty, and I thought that was a valuable thing to do, the close-out crews and the launch team getting to go through their procedures. I think the countdown itself was pretty much the way it had always been. It was just a chance to kind of remember and get re-familiar with the procedures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also, after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , you took part in Sally [K.] Ride’s task force."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.395125947585502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we helped write that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Those of us that were—a lot of that was, you know, a lot of that report writing is done by the staff, and then the members kind of critique it. So some of the stuff I remember writing myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I don’t remember how much of it survived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What parts of it do you—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.439028830650557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Those of us that were—a lot of that was, you know, a lot of that report writing is done by the staff, and then the members kind of critique it. So some of the stuff I remember writing myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I don’t remember how much of it survived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What parts of it do you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t really remember. Probably a lot of the parts about—it addressed some things that were not—I guess I’d put it this way. The chairman felt that it was appropriate to look not only at the specifics of that accident, but other things that his group might want to say about safety in the program, and that included, among other things, the role of astronauts in the program, and that was one of the places where I think I contributed, was how astronauts ought to be involved in the program.\\n\\n I remember one of the recommendations of the committee—I don’t think I was responsible for this one—but talked about elevating the director, the position of director of FCOD, because at the time of the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident, he was not a direct report to the center director. That had been a change that had been made sometime earlier. I don’t remember exactly when. And that commission felt that the guy that was head of the organization with the astronauts should be a direct report to the center director. So several people went back to Houston and put George’s desk up on blocks in an attempt to elevate his position. [Laughter] I think he left it there for some period of time, as far as I can remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Enjoyed the elevation?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.710032034056173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I don’t remember how much of it survived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What parts of it do you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t really remember. Probably a lot of the parts about—it addressed some things that were not—I guess I’d put it this way. The chairman felt that it was appropriate to look not only at the specifics of that accident, but other things that his group might want to say about safety in the program, and that included, among other things, the role of astronauts in the program, and that was one of the places where I think I contributed, was how astronauts ought to be involved in the program.\\n\\n I remember one of the recommendations of the committee—I don’t think I was responsible for this one—but talked about elevating the director, the position of director of FCOD, because at the time of the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident, he was not a direct report to the center director. That had been a change that had been made sometime earlier. I don’t remember exactly when. And that commission felt that the guy that was head of the organization with the astronauts should be a direct report to the center director. So several people went back to Houston and put George’s desk up on blocks in an attempt to elevate his position. [Laughter] I think he left it there for some period of time, as far as I can remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Enjoyed the elevation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Enjoyed the elevation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, in May of [19]‘87, you replaced Henry [W. “Hank”] Hartsfield [Jr.] as the Deputy Chief of the Astronaut Office. What were your duties and responsibilities in that position?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.602106117017044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—that they are being tailored?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think they know what the job—they have a better idea what the job’s like. They kind of know what the skills are that we’re looking for. And we’ve had a number of astronauts come into the program and be successful, and if they want to, they can pattern themselves after the people that have done that.\\n\\n You still get that today. It’s a little bit humbling and a little bit different now. When I first started on the selection board, people would say, “Oh, yeah, you know, I always wanted to be an astronaut ever since I watched Apollo 11 land on the Moon,” and now in later years it’s been, “Yeah, I really wanted to be an astronaut ever since I was a little kid and I watched the first Shuttles launch.” And you think, “Ah, jeez.”\\n\\n Nobody ever says, “When I watched Steve Hawley launch,” but they will say, “Hey, when I saw Sally Ride launch, then I really wanted to be an astronaut,” or, “I thought I could do that, too.” [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They’re getting younger and younger, I imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were assigned to STS-31, but, actually, you had been assigned to 61-J, which was planned before the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.335673463352272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think they know what the job—they have a better idea what the job’s like. They kind of know what the skills are that we’re looking for. And we’ve had a number of astronauts come into the program and be successful, and if they want to, they can pattern themselves after the people that have done that.\\n\\n You still get that today. It’s a little bit humbling and a little bit different now. When I first started on the selection board, people would say, “Oh, yeah, you know, I always wanted to be an astronaut ever since I watched Apollo 11 land on the Moon,” and now in later years it’s been, “Yeah, I really wanted to be an astronaut ever since I was a little kid and I watched the first Shuttles launch.” And you think, “Ah, jeez.”\\n\\n Nobody ever says, “When I watched Steve Hawley launch,” but they will say, “Hey, when I saw Sally Ride launch, then I really wanted to be an astronaut,” or, “I thought I could do that, too.” [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They’re getting younger and younger, I imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were assigned to STS-31, but, actually, you had been assigned to 61-J, which was planned before the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was planned to happen later that year."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.261859403724745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were assigned to STS-31, but, actually, you had been assigned to 61-J, which was planned before the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was planned to happen later that year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a matter of fact, I was assigned to that even before 61-C. flew, so it wasn’t unprecedented, but it wasn’t common that you’d get assigned to two missions at the same time. That was kind of neat, although as a practical matter, it didn’t figure into it because we didn’t do much training for 61-J before\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , and, then, of course, it all became sort of irrelevant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew for a while that you’d be a part of that crew that deployed the Hubble [Space Telescope]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.51317711524972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was planned to happen later that year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a matter of fact, I was assigned to that even before 61-C. flew, so it wasn’t unprecedented, but it wasn’t common that you’d get assigned to two missions at the same time. That was kind of neat, although as a practical matter, it didn’t figure into it because we didn’t do much training for 61-J before\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , and, then, of course, it all became sort of irrelevant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew for a while that you’d be a part of that crew that deployed the Hubble [Space Telescope]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so then you did, after a while—I think you were actually—when were you assigned for 31? Was that in [19]‘88, I think?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 36.125752350277466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a matter of fact, I was assigned to that even before 61-C. flew, so it wasn’t unprecedented, but it wasn’t common that you’d get assigned to two missions at the same time. That was kind of neat, although as a practical matter, it didn’t figure into it because we didn’t do much training for 61-J before\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , and, then, of course, it all became sort of irrelevant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew for a while that you’d be a part of that crew that deployed the Hubble [Space Telescope]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so then you did, after a while—I think you were actually—when were you assigned for 31? Was that in [19]‘88, I think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember. That sounds about right, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, okay. Well, since it was postponed for so long, when you were reassigned, did they assign the entire crew at that point, or was it still—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 34.58416927808607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so then you did, after a while—I think you were actually—when were you assigned for 31? Was that in [19]‘88, I think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember. That sounds about right, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, okay. Well, since it was postponed for so long, when you were reassigned, did they assign the entire crew at that point, or was it still—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn’t assign the entire crew, but it was mostly the same crew. The commander was different. When I was assigned to 61-J, John [W.] Young was the commander, and then they got around to assigning 31, John was no longer the Chief of the [Astronaut] Office. He was the Special Assistant to the Director [of Johnson Space Center for Engineering, Operations, and Safety], and Loren [J.] Shriver was assigned to be the commander."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that you being the astronomer, is that why you were assigned to that mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.670332678965405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you might have to deal with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You may have to deal with it later.\\n\\n Well, there were some other things besides the Hubble on the\\n\\n Atlantis\\n\\n on that flight. Do you remember—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, it was\\n\\n Discovery\\n\\n ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, was it\\n\\n Discovery\\n\\n ?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Do you remember anything about any of the other payloads or the experiments?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 27.411480754406004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, it was\\n\\n Discovery\\n\\n ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, was it\\n\\n Discovery\\n\\n ?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Do you remember anything about any of the other payloads or the experiments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember that we had too much else, frankly. Hubble pretty much filled the bay, so we didn’t have anything else in the bay. We had IMAX, and we probably had some mid deck experiments, but I don’t remember much about them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like for you when you finally, being assigned to this early on, four years before, and then finally seeing it fly, what was that like for you personally to experience that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 31.767366000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think. I mean, the scientific community is sort of diverse, and I don’t know that the scientific community ever, you know, speaks with one voice, but there were people that were using the telescope from [19]’90 to ‘93 and doing important work. I’m sure there were others that felt NASA had really screwed this up, and they were not very happy at all. So you could probably find a whole host of points of view on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you mentioned that you were sure that your crew had not done anything to cause the problem. Was there ever a question of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but, you know, I mean, that’s the sort of thing that—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First thing you thought of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First thing you think of is, “What did I do to screw this up?” [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, after that, you came back. What was your position when you first came back from that flight? Were you still—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00242:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 31.96374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but, you know, I mean, that’s the sort of thing that—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First thing you thought of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First thing you think of is, “What did I do to screw this up?” [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, after that, you came back. What was your position when you first came back from that flight? Were you still—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it was probably ill-defined, because I had actually had an offer to go to [NASA] Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California] before the flight happened, and [Richard H. “Dick”] Truly had called me, I think in December or thereabouts of—would have been [19]‘89, and asked me if I wanted to consider going out and taking a job at Ames, and I told him I was interested and wanted to think about it, but I had this flight, and I really didn’t feel like I was in a position to decide till after the flight. I had actually gone out to Ames before the flight and talked to the management out there and told them the same thing.\\n\\n So when I came back, I suppose I was kind of in limbo, because now that I’m back, I had to decide what my next job was going to be. I suppose my two options were either take the job at Ames or to go back to my old job as deputy chief for the office, and I elected to go to Ames."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.48577006641194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I forgot the question was. How I came to be in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think part of it was Kennedy's, the notion of the service that Kennedy had talked about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely that. And then I think in combination with the love of travel and sort of just fascination with learning about other cultures and all that sort of thing. I don't think I was very, um. You know, I mean, it seemed like a good idea to serve other people, but I think it was, um, my motivation was probably more selfish, that I really wanted to learn from the experience myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think in the end, that was the most valuable thing too. I mean, I think I really, it's been a great learning experience for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you end up going after college as you had planned?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.873077851568823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely that. And then I think in combination with the love of travel and sort of just fascination with learning about other cultures and all that sort of thing. I don't think I was very, um. You know, I mean, it seemed like a good idea to serve other people, but I think it was, um, my motivation was probably more selfish, that I really wanted to learn from the experience myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think in the end, that was the most valuable thing too. I mean, I think I really, it's been a great learning experience for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you end up going after college as you had planned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, went immediately after college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had been an English major?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 26.525642057298693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think in the end, that was the most valuable thing too. I mean, I think I really, it's been a great learning experience for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you end up going after college as you had planned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, went immediately after college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had been an English major?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you done any?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.47293561922077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, went immediately after college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had been an English major?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you done any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a BA generalist as I was termed in Peace Corps, and that wasn't a very great thing at that time. Peace Corps had just turned from taking BA generalists and putting them through jungle training to, um, you know, some of the early. Oh, the other thing I should say about wanting to go into Peace Corps. There were ads on television in the sixties, and they were of people swinging through the jungles on these ropes and this sort of thing, you know, and you know, these very engaging commercials, and so I'm sure that had something to do with it too. But before I went my senior year, I, oh, maybe this is coming later, but my senior year they, um, I was working in a restaurant. My parents had said, well, we'll put you through college. But then one summer I wanted to go to summer school. So they said, OK, well, then you know, you're going to have to pay for one of your semesters. And so I paid for my last semester by being a waitress, as we called them in those days.\n\nAnd I remember my manager thought I was a really good waitress, and he thought I was crazy for going into Peace Corps. And he begged me to stay and told me, you know, I'd be making a lot more if I stayed as a waitress because I'd only be making like, what was it, 16 cents an hour or something? He absolutely thought I was nuts. So, yeah, but anyway, I think television and Kennedy himself first, you know, all those kinds of things were part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In college, did you take any courses that prepared you to teach English as a second or foreign language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 18.78362386712508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there were a lot of other programs and they said that you would get three. You could get up to three invitations and you didn't have to take your first one. And so I met somebody else who said Ethiopia was a really neat place to go. I didn't know where I wanted to go. I was really pretty interested in Africa. I'd heard bad things about Afghanistan, that it was a druggie place, you know, and I didn't speak Spanish. And, you know, I mean, I had, I think I thought Africa was pretty neat, but I really didn't know where I wanted to go. But then I heard from somebody that that, um, Ethiopia was really an interesting place. So, oh, OK. Put that down as a first choice. It was pretty capricious. And anyway, that. But that was a really big Peace Corps country at the time. And so, um, I guess the odds were pretty good of getting that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you graduated, you had this application, you got your invitation, and then you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got the invitation before. I can't remember when. Sometime during that spring semester and then went really soon after graduation, you know, like maybe two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And you were, what? 21 or 20?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 22, I think. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did your family say when you said, hey, I'm going to Ethiopia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.092915407916752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got the invitation before. I can't remember when. Sometime during that spring semester and then went really soon after graduation, you know, like maybe two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And you were, what? 21 or 20?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 22, I think. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did your family say when you said, hey, I'm going to Ethiopia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were really very upset. They did not like this idea at all. They thought maybe I'd just been saying this for years, I think, because I often did sort of, you know, talk about this or that, and I think they just thought I would definitely never do it. And they were really worried. My grandfather, I remember, was, had some. He had been in World War I and in France, you know, and so his idea of overseas was tarnished by war. And, you know, I mean, and plus it had been so long ago. This was like 1917 or something, you know? And he's telling me what it's going to be like in 1970. Of course, it's pretty, pretty remote. And you know, they, of course, people had seen these TV shows like Daktari and. I don't know if you remember?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do know it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.325461564351947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 22, I think. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did your family say when you said, hey, I'm going to Ethiopia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were really very upset. They did not like this idea at all. They thought maybe I'd just been saying this for years, I think, because I often did sort of, you know, talk about this or that, and I think they just thought I would definitely never do it. And they were really worried. My grandfather, I remember, was, had some. He had been in World War I and in France, you know, and so his idea of overseas was tarnished by war. And, you know, I mean, and plus it had been so long ago. This was like 1917 or something, you know? And he's telling me what it's going to be like in 1970. Of course, it's pretty, pretty remote. And you know, they, of course, people had seen these TV shows like Daktari and. I don't know if you remember?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do know it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And you know, all these people being eaten by alligators and crocodiles and, you know, Tarzan movies. And all these sort of images of Africa were floating about, so I think it was very, very upsetting. And of course, we had no email, no cell phones, no reliable telephones even, so I literally didn't talk to my parents the entire time I was there. And you know, sometimes you'd go for weeks without getting a letter. The only way to really contact each other was by a letter. So, you know, it was a big deal, and I, oh, I was an only child and still am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So that must have been devastating for them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.74748341278018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And you know, all these people being eaten by alligators and crocodiles and, you know, Tarzan movies. And all these sort of images of Africa were floating about, so I think it was very, very upsetting. And of course, we had no email, no cell phones, no reliable telephones even, so I literally didn't talk to my parents the entire time I was there. And you know, sometimes you'd go for weeks without getting a letter. The only way to really contact each other was by a letter. So, you know, it was a big deal, and I, oh, I was an only child and still am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So that must have been devastating for them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe a little more difficult. Yeah. And my family really didn't travel too much. We went, we had gone to North Carolina, where my father's family was from. So we weren't totally, you know, I wasn't a kid who had never been out of the state. But um, but you know, we had really basically gone to see family. And that was it. We had not gone to Europe or anything like, I had, but my family hadn't. So it was a big deal for me to do this. And they did not encourage it. In fact, they told me they would disown me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they actually told me they would disown me. And I just said, well, OK. It didn't seem like a real big deal. Our family had no money anyway. So I thought, well, I guess, and once, I couldn't believe. My mother and I were very close and I couldn't really believe that this would happen, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It didn't, did it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.163870458644645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe a little more difficult. Yeah. And my family really didn't travel too much. We went, we had gone to North Carolina, where my father's family was from. So we weren't totally, you know, I wasn't a kid who had never been out of the state. But um, but you know, we had really basically gone to see family. And that was it. We had not gone to Europe or anything like, I had, but my family hadn't. So it was a big deal for me to do this. And they did not encourage it. In fact, they told me they would disown me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they actually told me they would disown me. And I just said, well, OK. It didn't seem like a real big deal. Our family had no money anyway. So I thought, well, I guess, and once, I couldn't believe. My mother and I were very close and I couldn't really believe that this would happen, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It didn't, did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it didn't. No, it didn't. But it was a big threat. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um. When you got your invitation and you were told you were going to be at the, um, this health college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.737633842938495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they actually told me they would disown me. And I just said, well, OK. It didn't seem like a real big deal. Our family had no money anyway. So I thought, well, I guess, and once, I couldn't believe. My mother and I were very close and I couldn't really believe that this would happen, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It didn't, did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it didn't. No, it didn't. But it was a big threat. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um. When you got your invitation and you were told you were going to be at the, um, this health college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually, I wasn't. When I got my invitation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no, I guess you don't know when you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 14.841691575885525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, she barely got in country, and they thought she was perfect because she was very gung-ho, very enthusiastic. But I think she had so many expectations and she just knew she was going to be of great service and everything, but at the same time maybe wasn't prepared for the, um. So, I mean, Ethiopia was really, I mean, probably still is, but it was, you know, really a kind of a shocking place for, in terms of development, even by the standards of other developing countries at that time. It was on the very bottom, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When I think of Ethiopia from then, I always think of the pictures of starving people. That's my marker when I was in Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And that was a little bit later, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that later? It was Biafra when I was a kid, and then Ethiopia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your training experience like, your home stay, the language training? Can you talk about each of the pieces?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.951976186382447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Amharic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Amharic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. A-M-H-A-R-I-C. And so what else about, oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many were in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In our group, you know, I really don't know. They divided our group into the ag people and the public health people. And so I was in the public health group and almost everybody in our group was a nurse in that group. Initially, there were a lot of rural development people and a lot of agricultural people, engineers, and there were some lawyers, too. There were three lawyers who were doing land reform. So in my little, you know, when they divided us, they sent the ag people way down south and we hardly ever saw them. You know, once in a while, we'd see them in Addis. So I don't know how many were in our group, that's really a good question. I think there were about, maybe about 40 or 50 in our total group, the 13. But I think in our little group, maybe about 20."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you the only?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.27997354042494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. A-M-H-A-R-I-C. And so what else about, oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many were in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In our group, you know, I really don't know. They divided our group into the ag people and the public health people. And so I was in the public health group and almost everybody in our group was a nurse in that group. Initially, there were a lot of rural development people and a lot of agricultural people, engineers, and there were some lawyers, too. There were three lawyers who were doing land reform. So in my little, you know, when they divided us, they sent the ag people way down south and we hardly ever saw them. You know, once in a while, we'd see them in Addis. So I don't know how many were in our group, that's really a good question. I think there were about, maybe about 40 or 50 in our total group, the 13. But I think in our little group, maybe about 20."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you the only?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some people got sent home early too, from that group too, for smoking grass and various things. So we were dwindling pretty fast. So yeah, what were you going to say?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, you said you were with the public health group and you were going to be teaching English at this public health college."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.755526156027711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In our group, you know, I really don't know. They divided our group into the ag people and the public health people. And so I was in the public health group and almost everybody in our group was a nurse in that group. Initially, there were a lot of rural development people and a lot of agricultural people, engineers, and there were some lawyers, too. There were three lawyers who were doing land reform. So in my little, you know, when they divided us, they sent the ag people way down south and we hardly ever saw them. You know, once in a while, we'd see them in Addis. So I don't know how many were in our group, that's really a good question. I think there were about, maybe about 40 or 50 in our total group, the 13. But I think in our little group, maybe about 20."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you the only?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some people got sent home early too, from that group too, for smoking grass and various things. So we were dwindling pretty fast. So yeah, what were you going to say?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, you said you were with the public health group and you were going to be teaching English at this public health college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the others were nurses. Was there anyone else who was assigned as an English teacher?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 16.395029062253013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some people got sent home early too, from that group too, for smoking grass and various things. So we were dwindling pretty fast. So yeah, what were you going to say?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, you said you were with the public health group and you were going to be teaching English at this public health college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the others were nurses. Was there anyone else who was assigned as an English teacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.084939890646261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long do you remember? Was that like a month? And then you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, they kept. You know, it seems like we'd be there for three weeks or so, and then they would send us somewhere for something else. So, for example, one of the things my group was doing was going around looking at public health facilities around the country, which was really interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they send you with the teacher or did they send you off with just the volunteers so you had to use your language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they always, we always had one of those Amharic speaking teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did, ah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.094377656273624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, they kept. You know, it seems like we'd be there for three weeks or so, and then they would send us somewhere for something else. So, for example, one of the things my group was doing was going around looking at public health facilities around the country, which was really interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they send you with the teacher or did they send you off with just the volunteers so you had to use your language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they always, we always had one of those Amharic speaking teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did, ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And in fact, when they sent Mary and me, they sent one of us, two of us to Gondar that year, and they sent an instructor just for the two of us. So, yeah, and he came every day for four hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were at the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.572041249428175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The food was, well, during training, everybody was getting sick constantly. It was like everybody had diarrhea, and not just a little bit, but really, really. Everybody was deathly ill almost all the time. We were getting, we got more shots after we got there. And of course, you're getting gamma globulin and cholera and everything, smallpox and all this stuff, and yellow fever. And I don't know if it was the shots, but probably it was just the initial problem too with the food, because most of us were sick for about six months while we were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, really a lot of, um, just a lot of vomiting and everything. And pretty soon, though, you actually got used to vomiting I have to say. And people would just, you know, like we'd be playing cards. And this was not during training, this was later, but people would just hop up and go get sick and come back. You know, it's kind of like we got used to it because it was, it got to be so common to be really sick. And there was a period, though, during training. Oh my gosh, am I ever going to feel well again? And I think they just told us, you know, we were eating, we were eating food that was really strange. But not only was it strange, it probably had a lot of bacteria. And because, you know, we were eating in strange places.\n\nAnd everybody told us, once you get in your home, you'll be able to control. The American people who were training us said, don't worry, you know, once you get in your own home, you'll be able to boil your water. You'll be able to control for this sort of thing and you won't be so sick. And it certainly tapered off. We got better, you know, but I think it was a matter of adjusting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you, during your training, did you go live with an Ethiopian family for a home stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you didn't do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.439014059572255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they, um, I'm not sure the Ethiopians would have accepted that. Maybe there were too many of us. That wasn't part of our training. You were supposed to go to the town, but you did not live with a family. Instead, they sent these language people with you, which was more expensive. Yeah, you lived on your own. And I don't know. I mean, Ethiopians are a bit standoffish. In fact, more than a bit. They're very standoffish. And I don't, I can't quite imagine it. I guess if they had paid them, maybe, you know. I suppose they do that in other countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did they train you to teach during that training? Do they have you do practice teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. In fact, many years later, I ran into the person who trained me in Peru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Peru?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. She was working for a language training center and we were going to go out for lunch and we went out for lunch and we were having a lunch. And, you know, I didn't really remember this woman's name or anything. She started asking me about what I've done and everything, and lo and behold, we discovered, you know. I said, you're that Irene? You know, we discovered that she had been personally training me and we remembered, then we remembered many things that we said to each. Oh, I remember you in the classroom. And, you know, that was a very a big coincidence. But I would say the training was pretty, the teaching was pretty cursory. I mean, it wasn't, you know, it was just a little bit. I'm thinking a week, about a week. Yeah. Not very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. But it was a three month period of that kind of probationary training period."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.265571177302506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. In fact, many years later, I ran into the person who trained me in Peru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Peru?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. She was working for a language training center and we were going to go out for lunch and we went out for lunch and we were having a lunch. And, you know, I didn't really remember this woman's name or anything. She started asking me about what I've done and everything, and lo and behold, we discovered, you know. I said, you're that Irene? You know, we discovered that she had been personally training me and we remembered, then we remembered many things that we said to each. Oh, I remember you in the classroom. And, you know, that was a very a big coincidence. But I would say the training was pretty, the teaching was pretty cursory. I mean, it wasn't, you know, it was just a little bit. I'm thinking a week, about a week. Yeah. Not very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. But it was a three month period of that kind of probationary training period."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the emphasis was really on language, very much on language all the time. That was it. And a little bit on culture. But I would say 95 percent of it was on language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during that time period since the political situation was difficult, during that training period did you to get to be on your own at all? Did you go out into the market? Did you go out and do things? You go out and go to a bar at night or whatever? What was that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.594747842664617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say not too much. Mostly, we were. [tape break] Let me think, hmm. Yeah, there's a festival, it may have been a different festival, but it was one where you made a big bonfire and where you have to leap through the bonfire and you make, you know, you sing these songs and everything. And I remember them doing that sort of thing and dancing with them, you know, being taught some Ethiopian dances in it. But it seems to me, my recollection is that it was very much sort of internal. I remember talking to the maid, you know, that kind of thing. I'm sure we walked around Dire Dawa a little bit. But again, I think they kept us so programed and there wasn't much during training of going out and doing stuff on their own too much. Of course, when we went to our home stay, a little bit. But again, it seemed like Zaha was always hanging around us. And just like, you know, he wouldn't let us go to the market that day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How soon after you got there did you know you were going to Gandar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gondar?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gondar."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was fairly soon because they had to arrange for these trips and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what you call home stay is going to the site that you were going to be at, to actually be assigned to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.610799805758786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was fairly soon because they had to arrange for these trips and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what you call home stay is going to the site that you were going to be at, to actually be assigned to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And actually, some of, we would do things like try to figure out where we were going to live. And, you know, there was some of that. Meet people at the Gondar Public Health College and that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else about training that you think would be good to also share?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.099752846615784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And actually, some of, we would do things like try to figure out where we were going to live. And, you know, there was some of that. Meet people at the Gondar Public Health College and that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else about training that you think would be good to also share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one really funny part of training was that we had a psychiatrist with us all the time. It was very funny. And he was with us during staging, and then he interviewed all of us to make sure we should even get on the plane. And then when we got there, he was just always hanging around and we were all paranoid. We were so afraid that we were going to get sent home. Now, you know, why that would have been so bad I'm not so sure. But you know, it was like a fate worse than death. You'll be sent home. And we were very worried about flunking out of the language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were very afraid that we would flunk out of the psychological profile, whatever that was. And so, of course, we never knew if we were OK or not, you know. And this guy would sit down and he was really kind of depressed himself. I think he was homesick and everything. But he'd be sitting with us and asking us questions and saying things like, how do you feel? And we would say, OK, OK! How's language? Oh, it's fine. So I remember being very intimidated by this guy following me around. Yeah. Did you have that? You have that also?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not to that extent. I think they trained the in-country people and the associate director were watching us to see how we were doing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.555280940684204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one really funny part of training was that we had a psychiatrist with us all the time. It was very funny. And he was with us during staging, and then he interviewed all of us to make sure we should even get on the plane. And then when we got there, he was just always hanging around and we were all paranoid. We were so afraid that we were going to get sent home. Now, you know, why that would have been so bad I'm not so sure. But you know, it was like a fate worse than death. You'll be sent home. And we were very worried about flunking out of the language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were very afraid that we would flunk out of the psychological profile, whatever that was. And so, of course, we never knew if we were OK or not, you know. And this guy would sit down and he was really kind of depressed himself. I think he was homesick and everything. But he'd be sitting with us and asking us questions and saying things like, how do you feel? And we would say, OK, OK! How's language? Oh, it's fine. So I remember being very intimidated by this guy following me around. Yeah. Did you have that? You have that also?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not to that extent. I think they trained the in-country people and the associate director were watching us to see how we were doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure it's very expensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't think there was a psych, there was nothing like that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.172534378538003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were very afraid that we would flunk out of the psychological profile, whatever that was. And so, of course, we never knew if we were OK or not, you know. And this guy would sit down and he was really kind of depressed himself. I think he was homesick and everything. But he'd be sitting with us and asking us questions and saying things like, how do you feel? And we would say, OK, OK! How's language? Oh, it's fine. So I remember being very intimidated by this guy following me around. Yeah. Did you have that? You have that also?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not to that extent. I think they trained the in-country people and the associate director were watching us to see how we were doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure it's very expensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't think there was a psych, there was nothing like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It must have been incredibly expensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's funny, the picture though."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.18112235716812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we may have, but I don't really recall it. We probably did. The part I remember most is the FSI, the exam, Foreign Service Institute exam. That was really scary and they tape recorded it and everything. And I remember I did, you know, when you'd come out they would tell you how you did. And everybody would be applauding, all your other fellow volunteers would all be jumping up and down. And I remember I was really thrilled and really surprised that I did well on that, you know, so. It was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was the rite of passage."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There must have been some kind of ceremony, it just must not have been that salient to me. I don't know. I really don't. I don't remember it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you and Mary, who was a nurse?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got assigned to Gondar."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.09013595240902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There must have been some kind of ceremony, it just must not have been that salient to me. I don't know. I really don't. I don't remember it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you and Mary, who was a nurse?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got assigned to Gondar."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Am I saying it right this time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.211262169343357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got assigned to Gondar."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Am I saying it right this time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me about. So what happened when you got there and you start, you're without the teachers and you start more of a professional kind of life?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.568069077048172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Am I saying it right this time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me about. So what happened when you got there and you start, you're without the teachers and you start more of a professional kind of life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Well, I should say, oh, there was another thing during training. Let me go back to that just a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.075632307831302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me about. So what happened when you got there and you start, you're without the teachers and you start more of a professional kind of life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Well, I should say, oh, there was another thing during training. Let me go back to that just a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because one of the things that we did during training was go to these health places and we went to a leprosarium, for example. It was really interesting. Yeah, went to a leprosarium. We went to a maternal childcare clinic in Addis. Some of these places were in Addis. I think this was really a very well planned training, this part. And I remember walking through the wards. Actually, all the nurses came up to Gondar at one point because that was where the public health college was. So part of this training was this group of nurses and me going around the country, seeing these special sites that were real important for whatever and looking at how they were set up, you know, and looking at some of the problems. Like, at that time, Nestlé was, uh, remember that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I sure do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 29.653455735149066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was very interesting, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds you've got to see a lot of the country by doing that, as well as different types of health issues."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I think they tried to not, I mean, it wasn't like one end of the country to the other, but, you know, kind of in the central area. And then when we got to our site, you know, of course, we'd already been to the wards and that sort of thing, which I didn't ever go back in because I was the English teacher. But again, it was actually good for me, I think, to understand what my students were experiencing. And I worked with a sanitarians, they were called sanitarians, nurses and health officers, and the sanitarians and nurses had like 10, they completed 10th grade. So really, it was more like teaching high school. You know, we're talking fairly young people here. And the health officers had finished 12th grade. And the sanitarians would be working to help sanitation across the country.\n\nThe nurses would be basically public health nurses and the, well, they would. The deal was there would be health stations. Ethiopia at that time had basically no doctors. They had one doctor for every 10,000 people. And so the idea was that they wanted to set up these health stations across the country, each one of which would have a health officer who would function as a doctor even though he only had a 12th grade education. And, you know, a little bit of health, public health training. And then the sanitarians and the nurses. You need a break?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh uh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, so that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me about where you and Mary lived first."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.220165854034892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I guess I saw something, there was something in Newsweek. And, you know, but I didn't really think, particularly I didn't think an Ethiopian would have heard about it, and I didn't think that they would be tuned into this. But this guy was a very sophisticated, very important, very well-read and intelligent. And he just said, well, you know, I know you're CIA, but you're still doing a good job for the university and for the public health college. And so I'll accept that and I'll, you know, but he wanted us to know that he knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was really devastating, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did anything in your relationship with him and your interactions following that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had no, we had no interaction with him after that. It had obviously been a formality, you know, to have these folks for dinner, greet them. And, you know, and he evidently had decided he wanted us to know this by the end of the evening. That was part of the evening. So it was pretty devastating again for these very young, very, very naive, fresh out of college students who just had an incredible naivete about the world, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of your other Ethiopian colleagues ever raise that issue with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.800184282260991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was really devastating, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did anything in your relationship with him and your interactions following that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had no, we had no interaction with him after that. It had obviously been a formality, you know, to have these folks for dinner, greet them. And, you know, and he evidently had decided he wanted us to know this by the end of the evening. That was part of the evening. So it was pretty devastating again for these very young, very, very naive, fresh out of college students who just had an incredible naivete about the world, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of your other Ethiopian colleagues ever raise that issue with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we were, I would say I was particularly isolated. I was the only English teacher, and I had very little contact with my Ethiopian colleagues. One of, there was somebody, they furnished us with a bus ride. There was an old school bus and it would pick us up every day if we wanted to, you know, if we didn't want to ride into town, into the campus. We could get a free ride on this public health college bus. And there was one colleague who had also been trained at Indiana. And, you know, she would sort of pleasantly say hello and, you know, but it wasn't. Nobody ever invited me for dinner or anything like that. It was, it was. People were pretty distant and maybe because my boss had said, they're members of the CIA, stay away from them. I don't know. I don't know, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you never?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.000204758067769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had no, we had no interaction with him after that. It had obviously been a formality, you know, to have these folks for dinner, greet them. And, you know, and he evidently had decided he wanted us to know this by the end of the evening. That was part of the evening. So it was pretty devastating again for these very young, very, very naive, fresh out of college students who just had an incredible naivete about the world, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of your other Ethiopian colleagues ever raise that issue with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we were, I would say I was particularly isolated. I was the only English teacher, and I had very little contact with my Ethiopian colleagues. One of, there was somebody, they furnished us with a bus ride. There was an old school bus and it would pick us up every day if we wanted to, you know, if we didn't want to ride into town, into the campus. We could get a free ride on this public health college bus. And there was one colleague who had also been trained at Indiana. And, you know, she would sort of pleasantly say hello and, you know, but it wasn't. Nobody ever invited me for dinner or anything like that. It was, it was. People were pretty distant and maybe because my boss had said, they're members of the CIA, stay away from them. I don't know. I don't know, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you never?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I said, they're pretty standoffish people. And you know, I guess I sort of thought, well, maybe they'll have us over at some point, but they didn't. The people who we socialized with were other ferengis, other foreigners. One was a Belgian doctor and his wife. And one was a British doctor and one was an Irish nurse. A couple of Yugoslavian doctors. Um, what else? Yeah, a lot of people came. American doctor who was there on the Ford Foundation and his wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were that much of an international group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 14.815067602552801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I said, they're pretty standoffish people. And you know, I guess I sort of thought, well, maybe they'll have us over at some point, but they didn't. The people who we socialized with were other ferengis, other foreigners. One was a Belgian doctor and his wife. And one was a British doctor and one was an Irish nurse. A couple of Yugoslavian doctors. Um, what else? Yeah, a lot of people came. American doctor who was there on the Ford Foundation and his wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were that much of an international group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's still, I guess a couple of my friends have gone back and they said it's just, you wouldn't recognize, it's really an important part of Ethiopia. You know, I guess it always was. It was the only place for medical training in the entire country. Yeah, it was the medical college for the country. It still is. [dog barks] Is that going to be a problem? Want me to?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. OK, so we're laughing because Roberta's dog is viciously mauling a toy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.68340844728089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's still, I guess a couple of my friends have gone back and they said it's just, you wouldn't recognize, it's really an important part of Ethiopia. You know, I guess it always was. It was the only place for medical training in the entire country. Yeah, it was the medical college for the country. It still is. [dog barks] Is that going to be a problem? Want me to?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. OK, so we're laughing because Roberta's dog is viciously mauling a toy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it reminded me of a lion. And in town Gondar was a really interesting city, and in fact it's still a tourist city, because the Portuguese came there in the 15th century, or I guess the 16th century, 1500s, and built a little castle and something that's now called the Fasilides Bath, which is used for baptisms by the Ethiopian Coptic Church, but was part of a structure built by the Portuguese in the 1500s. And at this one little place in the center of town, which is like a little castle, they kept lions. And it was kind of neat because you could hear these lions roaring at night and it was kind of wonderful, you know, just what you should hear in Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's so neat. So tell me about teaching and what your days were like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.892527104568076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A couple of years ago. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you send emails back and forth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was, yeah, we sent a few emails back and forth and he was basically just looking for a job in the U.S. and everything. But I guess the main thing was just to figure out, you know, wow, this kid, you know, who I haven't seen. And he was still calling me madam or something, you know? And I said, you know, Mengistu, we're really pretty close in age. We're like, probably, let's see, he was 15 and I was, what, 22. So actually, we're very close in age. And he also has a PhD."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was he teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He became a physical therapist, and he ended up going to, I think, Sweden or somewhere for training. And, um, you know, getting scholarships and everything and. Yeah, yeah. And so he was very grateful to Peace Corps for really helping him initially get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. That's a great story."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.436141227297862, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was, yeah, we sent a few emails back and forth and he was basically just looking for a job in the U.S. and everything. But I guess the main thing was just to figure out, you know, wow, this kid, you know, who I haven't seen. And he was still calling me madam or something, you know? And I said, you know, Mengistu, we're really pretty close in age. We're like, probably, let's see, he was 15 and I was, what, 22. So actually, we're very close in age. And he also has a PhD."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was he teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He became a physical therapist, and he ended up going to, I think, Sweden or somewhere for training. And, um, you know, getting scholarships and everything and. Yeah, yeah. And so he was very grateful to Peace Corps for really helping him initially get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. That's a great story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was quite a shock, you know. It's the power of Google, you know? Yeah, it's wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the international community that was there, did you form friendships with those people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.040156919219847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He became a physical therapist, and he ended up going to, I think, Sweden or somewhere for training. And, um, you know, getting scholarships and everything and. Yeah, yeah. And so he was very grateful to Peace Corps for really helping him initially get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. That's a great story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was quite a shock, you know. It's the power of Google, you know? Yeah, it's wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the international community that was there, did you form friendships with those people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, that was really. That was really our source of social support, I would say. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the weekends, did you stay on campus at your compound or did you go to Addis Ababa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.71128546579983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was quite a shock, you know. It's the power of Google, you know? Yeah, it's wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the international community that was there, did you form friendships with those people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, that was really. That was really our source of social support, I would say. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the weekends, did you stay on campus at your compound or did you go to Addis Ababa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, no. Our compound was actually off campus. There was a little, um, Gondar was a town of I'm thinking about 30,000 people at the time that I lived there. It was a provincial capital and definitely we stayed there all the time. There was no easy way to go out. I mean, you could fly, but we didn't have any money. It was a little. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tape two, interview with Roberta Vann. OK, so we were talking about that you didn't actually have the materials for teaching the language that they would need for their profession."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.3458727397775885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, that was really. That was really our source of social support, I would say. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the weekends, did you stay on campus at your compound or did you go to Addis Ababa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, no. Our compound was actually off campus. There was a little, um, Gondar was a town of I'm thinking about 30,000 people at the time that I lived there. It was a provincial capital and definitely we stayed there all the time. There was no easy way to go out. I mean, you could fly, but we didn't have any money. It was a little. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tape two, interview with Roberta Vann. OK, so we were talking about that you didn't actually have the materials for teaching the language that they would need for their profession."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, so it was more literary, which was good because that's what I was comfortable with, having had only literary training. And some of the essays, I remember they read about Pele."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The soccer player?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.0509697108639875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, no. Our compound was actually off campus. There was a little, um, Gondar was a town of I'm thinking about 30,000 people at the time that I lived there. It was a provincial capital and definitely we stayed there all the time. There was no easy way to go out. I mean, you could fly, but we didn't have any money. It was a little. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tape two, interview with Roberta Vann. OK, so we were talking about that you didn't actually have the materials for teaching the language that they would need for their profession."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, so it was more literary, which was good because that's what I was comfortable with, having had only literary training. And some of the essays, I remember they read about Pele."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The soccer player?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The soccer player, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was around back then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.834410789848874, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, so it was more literary, which was good because that's what I was comfortable with, having had only literary training. And some of the essays, I remember they read about Pele."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The soccer player?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The soccer player, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was around back then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you know, and they would tell me interesting things. They would, um, they would share things with me and so forth. You know, I wish, I guess in retrospect that I'd had the knowledge that I have now, you know, I could have done a much better job. But on the other hand, I think they were in pretty good shape language wise too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I find it interesting that you said they already had some good skills."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.70490087760986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The soccer player, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was around back then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you know, and they would tell me interesting things. They would, um, they would share things with me and so forth. You know, I wish, I guess in retrospect that I'd had the knowledge that I have now, you know, I could have done a much better job. But on the other hand, I think they were in pretty good shape language wise too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I find it interesting that you said they already had some good skills."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they didn't, they weren't shy in class. They would interact?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.672112086233179, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you know, and they would tell me interesting things. They would, um, they would share things with me and so forth. You know, I wish, I guess in retrospect that I'd had the knowledge that I have now, you know, I could have done a much better job. But on the other hand, I think they were in pretty good shape language wise too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I find it interesting that you said they already had some good skills."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they didn't, they weren't shy in class. They would interact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think probably I had a mostly teacher centered class and nobody had told me that that was a bad thing in those days. That would seem to be the perfect way to do things. You know, so we weren't making the demands on them that we would now make on students. But, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many classes did you teach?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.635680095814644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they didn't, they weren't shy in class. They would interact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think probably I had a mostly teacher centered class and nobody had told me that that was a bad thing in those days. That would seem to be the perfect way to do things. You know, so we weren't making the demands on them that we would now make on students. But, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many classes did you teach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's hard to remember. I'm sure I taught, you know, the health officers, the nurses and the sanitarians. And I don't, I really don't remember if it was every day that I taught all three classes. I think it was. I think I taught all of them every day, which didn't seem like much to me at that. You know, I thought, geez, three hours of work, a little preparation, you know? And actually, I did have a lot of time, um, to read and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get books?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.706311217571827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think probably I had a mostly teacher centered class and nobody had told me that that was a bad thing in those days. That would seem to be the perfect way to do things. You know, so we weren't making the demands on them that we would now make on students. But, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many classes did you teach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's hard to remember. I'm sure I taught, you know, the health officers, the nurses and the sanitarians. And I don't, I really don't remember if it was every day that I taught all three classes. I think it was. I think I taught all of them every day, which didn't seem like much to me at that. You know, I thought, geez, three hours of work, a little preparation, you know? And actually, I did have a lot of time, um, to read and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get books?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How did I?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get books in English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.562568019524253, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's hard to remember. I'm sure I taught, you know, the health officers, the nurses and the sanitarians. And I don't, I really don't remember if it was every day that I taught all three classes. I think it was. I think I taught all of them every day, which didn't seem like much to me at that. You know, I thought, geez, three hours of work, a little preparation, you know? And actually, I did have a lot of time, um, to read and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get books?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How did I?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get books in English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there was something called a Peace Corps book locker at that time. Evidently in earlier years, not in the year that I went in, but in previous years, maybe it went back many years. There was something about the Peace Corps book locker, and they used to give Peace Corps volunteers a hundred books, a hundred paperbacks. You know, isn't that wonderful?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is so cool."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.180631132804726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How did I?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get books in English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there was something called a Peace Corps book locker at that time. Evidently in earlier years, not in the year that I went in, but in previous years, maybe it went back many years. There was something about the Peace Corps book locker, and they used to give Peace Corps volunteers a hundred books, a hundred paperbacks. You know, isn't that wonderful?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is so cool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But what happened was that, of course, we would hoard books and we'd hang on to books. And then in a town like Gondar, which had 30,000 people, in a country like Ethiopia, which had a large number of Peace Corps volunteers, you would have a large number of paperbacks floating about. And so, you know, that's where I read Exodus because somebody had it on their shelf. Jack Cahill had it on his shelf, you know, and so, oh, I haven't read that. But then we also luckily, we had a library. We were at a public health college, so we had a library, and many books were in English. So that's also where I read War and Peace, because that happened to be one of the books that was on the shelf. And, you know, it wasn't a huge selection, but I, you know, it was enough. It was really enough. And there's a lot of training around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many Peace Corps volunteers were in Gondar?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.867367925338584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there was something called a Peace Corps book locker at that time. Evidently in earlier years, not in the year that I went in, but in previous years, maybe it went back many years. There was something about the Peace Corps book locker, and they used to give Peace Corps volunteers a hundred books, a hundred paperbacks. You know, isn't that wonderful?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is so cool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But what happened was that, of course, we would hoard books and we'd hang on to books. And then in a town like Gondar, which had 30,000 people, in a country like Ethiopia, which had a large number of Peace Corps volunteers, you would have a large number of paperbacks floating about. And so, you know, that's where I read Exodus because somebody had it on their shelf. Jack Cahill had it on his shelf, you know, and so, oh, I haven't read that. But then we also luckily, we had a library. We were at a public health college, so we had a library, and many books were in English. So that's also where I read War and Peace, because that happened to be one of the books that was on the shelf. And, you know, it wasn't a huge selection, but I, you know, it was enough. It was really enough. And there's a lot of training around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many Peace Corps volunteers were in Gondar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four I think. Yeah, four of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you and Mary. And then what were the others doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.198035562878714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One. They were doing, I guess it would be called economic development. They were working with. They were trying to get people to do hides, to use hides for leather."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they previously, apparently the Ethiopians had thrown away their hides when they killed an animal and they were actually developing this industry so that they would, you know, tan the hides. And they were very excited about it. Oh, I'm leaving out one Peace Corps volunteer. There were, there was one other Peace Corps volunteer. There were five of us. The other one was in smallpox eradication. So he was gone a lot. And I always thought, that's what I'd like to be in, smallpox eradication, you know, go out to the villages and everything. And I actually begged him one time to take me with him. I thought that would be really fun, but he wouldn't do it. So these other guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. These other guys were often gone. But they would come in and, you know, they'd pop in and see us and that sort of thing. And one of the guys in the tanning business took the overseas, had an overseas subscription to Newsweek. It was on a really thin tissue-like paper and somebody had given this to him as a gift. And so every week he would, you know, this Newsweek would be passed around and we'd all read about news. We'd all read the Newsweek and read what was happening in Ethiopia sometimes, you know, like a bridge was blown up. I remember that, and the cholera epidemic. And you know, we didn't even know about this stuff and were reading about it in Ed's Newsweek."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, it's interesting. In my year, Newsweek was sent to every volunteer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.99781729208746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they previously, apparently the Ethiopians had thrown away their hides when they killed an animal and they were actually developing this industry so that they would, you know, tan the hides. And they were very excited about it. Oh, I'm leaving out one Peace Corps volunteer. There were, there was one other Peace Corps volunteer. There were five of us. The other one was in smallpox eradication. So he was gone a lot. And I always thought, that's what I'd like to be in, smallpox eradication, you know, go out to the villages and everything. And I actually begged him one time to take me with him. I thought that would be really fun, but he wouldn't do it. So these other guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. These other guys were often gone. But they would come in and, you know, they'd pop in and see us and that sort of thing. And one of the guys in the tanning business took the overseas, had an overseas subscription to Newsweek. It was on a really thin tissue-like paper and somebody had given this to him as a gift. And so every week he would, you know, this Newsweek would be passed around and we'd all read about news. We'd all read the Newsweek and read what was happening in Ethiopia sometimes, you know, like a bridge was blown up. I remember that, and the cholera epidemic. And you know, we didn't even know about this stuff and were reading about it in Ed's Newsweek."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, it's interesting. In my year, Newsweek was sent to every volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was. We all had a subscription whether we asked for it or not. And I never read it before or since, but I was so glad to get it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.886463657874955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. These other guys were often gone. But they would come in and, you know, they'd pop in and see us and that sort of thing. And one of the guys in the tanning business took the overseas, had an overseas subscription to Newsweek. It was on a really thin tissue-like paper and somebody had given this to him as a gift. And so every week he would, you know, this Newsweek would be passed around and we'd all read about news. We'd all read the Newsweek and read what was happening in Ethiopia sometimes, you know, like a bridge was blown up. I remember that, and the cholera epidemic. And you know, we didn't even know about this stuff and were reading about it in Ed's Newsweek."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, it's interesting. In my year, Newsweek was sent to every volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was. We all had a subscription whether we asked for it or not. And I never read it before or since, but I was so glad to get it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a gender divide between the men and the women?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.87384850874995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was. We all had a subscription whether we asked for it or not. And I never read it before or since, but I was so glad to get it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a gender divide between the men and the women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, very much, very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.733346302011811, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five thousand, yeah. Nobody knows that. But in Eritrea. And so he was sent to that base and isolated for months on end. And, you know, it was from the kind of lifestyle they led, so they tended to be a lot sicker with much more serious diseases than we had. Malaria, hepatitis. Ascaris, well ascaris isn't too serious, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's parasites, worms, the kind that dogs get actually. Tapeworm. Bob had tapeworm. One time he walked in and announced, I have a tapeworm! One time Ed walks in and said, I have syphilis! And of course, the women are just getting fatter and fatter and having this totally boring life. But we've read War and Peace, three times. So that was kind of the, I would say that's sort of the picture of what it was like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was surprising. Did you have a relationship with the Peace Corps administrators or the Peace Corps office at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much. Very little. We were so remote. One time, the Peace Corps doctor called us and told us that, um, oh, what's the? We had several big disease scares and one was cholera, and one was, I'm losing the word right now. This is a senior moment here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's why we have to get your interview now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.592607002235345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's parasites, worms, the kind that dogs get actually. Tapeworm. Bob had tapeworm. One time he walked in and announced, I have a tapeworm! One time Ed walks in and said, I have syphilis! And of course, the women are just getting fatter and fatter and having this totally boring life. But we've read War and Peace, three times. So that was kind of the, I would say that's sort of the picture of what it was like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was surprising. Did you have a relationship with the Peace Corps administrators or the Peace Corps office at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much. Very little. We were so remote. One time, the Peace Corps doctor called us and told us that, um, oh, what's the? We had several big disease scares and one was cholera, and one was, I'm losing the word right now. This is a senior moment here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's why we have to get your interview now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Um. It's what you get from cows. Bristles. It's carried by cows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mad cow disease is all I know but that was way before that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.547341113594827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much. Very little. We were so remote. One time, the Peace Corps doctor called us and told us that, um, oh, what's the? We had several big disease scares and one was cholera, and one was, I'm losing the word right now. This is a senior moment here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's why we have to get your interview now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Um. It's what you get from cows. Bristles. It's carried by cows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mad cow disease is all I know but that was way before that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is before mad cow disease. Anyway, it's very serious. Anyway, our Peace Corps doctor called us once and said, all right, there's a big epidemic. You've got to be really careful. This can be spread very easily. You know, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't have to go into the Peace Corps office periodically for shots and stuff like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.497045681772029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Um. It's what you get from cows. Bristles. It's carried by cows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mad cow disease is all I know but that was way before that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is before mad cow disease. Anyway, it's very serious. Anyway, our Peace Corps doctor called us once and said, all right, there's a big epidemic. You've got to be really careful. This can be spread very easily. You know, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't have to go into the Peace Corps office periodically for shots and stuff like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, no, because it was so, so, so far away. My roommate gave me rabies shots, like every six months she gave me a rabies shot and all other stuff, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gamma globulin? We got those."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.552272979746698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is before mad cow disease. Anyway, it's very serious. Anyway, our Peace Corps doctor called us once and said, all right, there's a big epidemic. You've got to be really careful. This can be spread very easily. You know, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't have to go into the Peace Corps office periodically for shots and stuff like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, no, because it was so, so, so far away. My roommate gave me rabies shots, like every six months she gave me a rabies shot and all other stuff, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gamma globulin? We got those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just we did it locally because I was at a medical college and I had a roommate who was a nurse. So my nurse roommate gave me everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in the time you were there, they didn't call all the volunteers together for a conference or to do anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.724747755274109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, no, because it was so, so, so far away. My roommate gave me rabies shots, like every six months she gave me a rabies shot and all other stuff, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gamma globulin? We got those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just we did it locally because I was at a medical college and I had a roommate who was a nurse. So my nurse roommate gave me everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in the time you were there, they didn't call all the volunteers together for a conference or to do anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then some of those volunteers you never saw again, that you saw during the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.02749750586012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just we did it locally because I was at a medical college and I had a roommate who was a nurse. So my nurse roommate gave me everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in the time you were there, they didn't call all the volunteers together for a conference or to do anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then some of those volunteers you never saw again, that you saw during the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. That's right. Yeah, I saw them at a reunion recently and I vaguely remember some of them from the initial training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you describe your relationships with your students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.711015860173935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't ever remember. No, there were no faculty meetings at all. I really, in retrospect, you know, it seems very odd to me now as an academic. I didn't know what the world was like. I was just a kid and this is my first job. But I, my guess now is that the business about the CIA and so forth, I mean, I think they really wanted to keep us pretty isolated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did Mary feel that way too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. She was in the ward and she was interacting with people, but I think all of us are, our main. Her main friend was a doctor, a British doctor. You know, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Was that, um, living with Mary, was that a nice setup, was it nice to have that or what was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was pretty good, I guess. Eventually, we actually went our separate ways, and I. She moved on campus with one of the doctors, and I went to Mussolini's officers’ quarters, which I loved. They were these nice apartments and we always had hot water there. We always had water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's also, yeah, one thing, did you have a bathroom?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.22864785882325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, we really didn't have any way. I guess we could have emailed each, or not emailed. Yes, right? I guess we could have written letters to each other. Well, no. The people in the mountains we couldn't have written letters to, because their mail they had to get in Gondar, you know. My roommate had friends among the nurses in other towns that I think she used to write letters to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So letter writing was it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think letter writing was pretty much it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing with telegrams?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose they existed, but I never used any. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about getting letters from home. Who wrote to you, what was that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.254053176470277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think letter writing was pretty much it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing with telegrams?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose they existed, but I never used any. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about getting letters from home. Who wrote to you, what was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my mother was the one who wrote. And um, and yeah, that was really, of course, very important. Packages were even better. Once in a while I'd get a package. My parents sent me a fruitcake at Christmas, which cost them a fortune to send. Yeah. You know, things like packages were really important and letters were really important. But I think I really enjoyed writing letters, and I think it really, um, I think, like I say, I think that introspection, reflection, reflecting on what Peace Corps was like, what I was going through, trying to share the experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you pretty regularly kept a journal?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.393392418300309, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose they existed, but I never used any. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about getting letters from home. Who wrote to you, what was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my mother was the one who wrote. And um, and yeah, that was really, of course, very important. Packages were even better. Once in a while I'd get a package. My parents sent me a fruitcake at Christmas, which cost them a fortune to send. Yeah. You know, things like packages were really important and letters were really important. But I think I really enjoyed writing letters, and I think it really, um, I think, like I say, I think that introspection, reflection, reflecting on what Peace Corps was like, what I was going through, trying to share the experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you pretty regularly kept a journal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would, not every day, you know, but definitely, definitely kept a journal. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you reread it since you've been home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.659324909222565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my mother was the one who wrote. And um, and yeah, that was really, of course, very important. Packages were even better. Once in a while I'd get a package. My parents sent me a fruitcake at Christmas, which cost them a fortune to send. Yeah. You know, things like packages were really important and letters were really important. But I think I really enjoyed writing letters, and I think it really, um, I think, like I say, I think that introspection, reflection, reflecting on what Peace Corps was like, what I was going through, trying to share the experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you pretty regularly kept a journal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would, not every day, you know, but definitely, definitely kept a journal. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you reread it since you've been home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your family keep your letters. Do you have them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.06591656580285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would, not every day, you know, but definitely, definitely kept a journal. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you reread it since you've been home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your family keep your letters. Do you have them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have them now?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.628796184225388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your family keep your letters. Do you have them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have them now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Well, no, they, my mom still has them. Yeah, my mother still has the letter. Yeah, I'm really glad she did that. Yeah, I'm really glad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you haven't read from them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.365329093583764, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have them now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Well, no, they, my mom still has them. Yeah, my mother still has the letter. Yeah, I'm really glad she did that. Yeah, I'm really glad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you haven't read from them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven't. It would be fun to read them. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, and so once you got to Ethiopia, your mother kept up with you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 16.623863078498474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven't. It would be fun to read them. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, and so once you got to Ethiopia, your mother kept up with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, she was sending me blouses and fruitcake. Letters. Yeah. And I had another friend in New York who had been a housemate in college, and she would send me things like, um, Bon Appétit magazines, you know, things like that. And it was sort of a version of Bon Appétit, I don't know that it was. It wasn't real Bon Appétit, but and I would try to cook these things, which was really fun. It's extremely high altitude, about three times the altitude of Denver, you know, so it was really a challenge to do things like make a soufflé."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, you'd keep cutting back, cutting back, cutting back on the leavening, any baking soda or anything. But at a point, for the altitude we were at, you'd be at a negative. And so it was really tricky to try to figure out, well, how do you deal with this? So there was, you know, to amuse myself, I would experiment with, can I make a soufflé at 10,700 feet, you know? Yeah. So it was, it was. Cooking was very, very interesting there actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's so funny because one of my questions to you was going to be, did you learn to cook there and did you go to market and what was that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.385403259409347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just cooked them, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One per person because they were about the size of a Cornish game hen. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you haven't done that since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cooked a live chicken? Yeah, no, no, definitely, definitely not. Definitely a Peace Corps experience. I'm sure Bob is not ringing any chicken necks lately either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, really. So you would go to the market and was there food to be had?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.317114732677052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One per person because they were about the size of a Cornish game hen. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you haven't done that since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cooked a live chicken? Yeah, no, no, definitely, definitely not. Definitely a Peace Corps experience. I'm sure Bob is not ringing any chicken necks lately either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, really. So you would go to the market and was there food to be had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh yeah. We had both an open market and then we had stores in town that were owned, I think, by Muslims mostly. And they actually had even things like peanut butter, which of course, was very expensive. It would be like three ESIs, three Ethiopian dollars. And, you know, it's too much money for us to spend, but you could pretty much get, you could get a lot of stuff. You couldn't get milk there. Milk was very tuberculosis ridden. And so we had to use powdered milk and we had to make it with, um, boiled water and everything. We had to boil our own water and filter it. And, you know, we had to do a lot of, we had to Clorox our lettuce. And, you know, we had to do a lot of stuff to keep from getting sick.\n\nBut um, yeah, we had a good situation with food and we got into Ethiopian food very early when we arrived. We told Yanaguchi, we want to eat Ethiopian food. She was a pretty good cook, you know, pretty experienced. We want to Ethiopian food every day for lunch and then we'll eat European food or whatever for the other meal. And so consequently, we got very fat, very fast, by eating two big meals a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they eat like what you get at a restaurant with the?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.463521368146878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. On campus, it was fine. Yeah, yeah. It was a tiny little campus though, it wasn't like a university here. It was maybe like a real tiny little private college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say the hardest part of being a Peace Corps volunteer is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think maybe, I think maybe the gender differences and the just, like I like say, not being able to get out, I'm such an outdoor person and just not being able to do the things I was used to doing. I remember when I first got there, I decided. Our landlady had our rooms painted and we picked out the colors. And then I looked at my room and I said, oh, it's way too pale, this yellow. I want a darker paint, I want a darker yellow, and I wanted it like the meskel flower, which was in bloom at that time. It was very bright yellow. So I said, what the heck? I'm just going to go down, buy the paint, and paint it myself. Well, we had these 15 foot ceilings and, you know, I had to stand on top of my wardrobe to do it, but it was no big deal. But these little kids would walk by and they would point and say, oh, ferengi is painting the wall. and they would laugh and they'd roll on the ground, and they'd just think that was the silliest thing. What in the world was I painting a wall for?\n\nAnd, you know, getting on a bike was a big deal. Taking a walk. Walking with another Peace Corps volunteer would definitely get me labeled as a prostitute. Having anyone stay in my home of the opposite sex would get me labeled as a prostitute. So, you know, it was just so many difficulties like that. I tried to dress conservatively and it was never enough, never ever enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You couldn't go out for a beer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I didn't even think about it. Yeah, yeah. Right. I mean, even just the simplest thing was very difficult. I think that was the hardest part. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the best part?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.05215876870428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And one time this monkey got loose. And of course, it began to run around our house and tried to get into our house. And we'd been warned by a Peace Corps doctor that monkeys were very often rabid and we really had to worry about rabies a lot. This monkey was trying to get into my bedroom, you know, and we had shutters on our house. So I'm shutting the shutters and then the monkey's very clever. Going to the next window, shutting the shutters, going to the next one, shutting the shutters. And, you know, I was fearing for my life because I knew this monkey, if he got me, he was going to try to kill me. And because he hated humans, he hated humans because he'd been tortured by humans all of his life, you know? And so there were, I mean, there were things like that that just would never, ever, ever, ever happen in an ordinary life, you know.\n\nSo every day was interesting, I mean, I was never bored. I may have been lonely, but I was never bored. There was always something interesting. And you know, when I was living alone, these monks used to come and beg. And you know, they were these, they were like out of the Middle Ages. They were these ancient monks begging for food. And you know, there are just so many interesting. Pardon me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are they Coptic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Coptic monks, yeah, yeah. They are totally, they take vows of poverty. They are like the original monks and, you know, they live on whatever dried injera people toss them. And, you know, so every day was interesting and nothing was boring for me, and it was really an exciting, exciting period. If difficult. I mean, certainly difficult, certainly very painful at times, but very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you would have become a TESL teacher if you hadn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, I'm sure, I'm sure I wouldn't have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's had a huge effect."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.502398631893643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Coptic monks, yeah, yeah. They are totally, they take vows of poverty. They are like the original monks and, you know, they live on whatever dried injera people toss them. And, you know, so every day was interesting and nothing was boring for me, and it was really an exciting, exciting period. If difficult. I mean, certainly difficult, certainly very painful at times, but very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you would have become a TESL teacher if you hadn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, I'm sure, I'm sure I wouldn't have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's had a huge effect."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, I don't think I said that at the beginning of the tape, you know, what I'm doing now. I'm a professor of English as a second language. So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you think about the beginning of your service to when you left, what do you think were the biggest changes in you over that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.89155403543738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, I'm sure, I'm sure I wouldn't have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's had a huge effect."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, I don't think I said that at the beginning of the tape, you know, what I'm doing now. I'm a professor of English as a second language. So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you think about the beginning of your service to when you left, what do you think were the biggest changes in you over that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I just think definitely I matured and definitely I began to be capable of, you know, managing other people, being self-sufficient, figuring out how to do things. You know, like, what do you do when there's no water coming out of the tap? What do you do when your bookshelves are being eaten by termites? I mean, just, OK, what do you do when your kid has, the kid who's working for you has a snake or boils or whatever. And just all kinds of little everyday sorts of adjustments to make. And having to, even teaching, you know, just I felt like I was baptized by fire. You know, it was the kind of experience that probably would take a decade in the States to get. You know, I think most people don't have the kind of experiences that we had at least until their 30s. You know, the kind of managerial experiences and the kind of powerful experiences that we had. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned when we were talking not on tape. Do you want to pause for a second so you can take the dog out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 15.435060039374866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, I don't think I said that at the beginning of the tape, you know, what I'm doing now. I'm a professor of English as a second language. So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you think about the beginning of your service to when you left, what do you think were the biggest changes in you over that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I just think definitely I matured and definitely I began to be capable of, you know, managing other people, being self-sufficient, figuring out how to do things. You know, like, what do you do when there's no water coming out of the tap? What do you do when your bookshelves are being eaten by termites? I mean, just, OK, what do you do when your kid has, the kid who's working for you has a snake or boils or whatever. And just all kinds of little everyday sorts of adjustments to make. And having to, even teaching, you know, just I felt like I was baptized by fire. You know, it was the kind of experience that probably would take a decade in the States to get. You know, I think most people don't have the kind of experiences that we had at least until their 30s. You know, the kind of managerial experiences and the kind of powerful experiences that we had. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned when we were talking not on tape. Do you want to pause for a second so you can take the dog out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe we should. [dog barks] Yes, she says yes. Doggy has to go out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, let's see. Oh, we talked a little bit. You had mentioned to me once that you guys got to go on vacation while you were volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.191432147376378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe we should. [dog barks] Yes, she says yes. Doggy has to go out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, let's see. Oh, we talked a little bit. You had mentioned to me once that you guys got to go on vacation while you were volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. It was part of the deal in Ethiopia that they bought your ticket, instead of to Addis Ababa, to Nairobi because it was exactly the same price and everybody wanted to go to Nairobi obviously. So the big tradition there was to take one month off, we got one month vacation and to spend that one month on safari. And typically you went to Kenya, Uganda, and Tanzania. And I was in Uganda the summer that Idi Amin, you know, took over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh! Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And of course, was totally oblivious to how dangerous it was. And we did hear that three Peace Corps volunteers were killed that summer, and we were kind of. You know, things were starting to happen and we were, you know, but we just assumed it was some aberration. And, you know, we went to Entebbe. And of course, a couple of months after we were in Entebbe, the Peace Corps volunteers were captive, held captive there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was close."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.657146830418197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. It was part of the deal in Ethiopia that they bought your ticket, instead of to Addis Ababa, to Nairobi because it was exactly the same price and everybody wanted to go to Nairobi obviously. So the big tradition there was to take one month off, we got one month vacation and to spend that one month on safari. And typically you went to Kenya, Uganda, and Tanzania. And I was in Uganda the summer that Idi Amin, you know, took over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh! Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And of course, was totally oblivious to how dangerous it was. And we did hear that three Peace Corps volunteers were killed that summer, and we were kind of. You know, things were starting to happen and we were, you know, but we just assumed it was some aberration. And, you know, we went to Entebbe. And of course, a couple of months after we were in Entebbe, the Peace Corps volunteers were captive, held captive there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was close."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in October. I had been there in July. Yeah. My mother was saying, oh, I'm so glad you're not there now. And I was saying, oh, but that's such a wonderful hotel. If you're going to be held captive, it's a great place. Um. Yeah. Murchison Falls was wonderful. We stayed in a tent and heard the hippos munching at night and the lions roaring and everything. It was fabulous. It was. It's still today is the most fabulous vacation I've ever had in my life. And there were six of us on this and, you know, I'm still in contact with most of those people actually. So a very interesting experience. That's the capital of Uganda at that time was a wonderful, bustling, sophisticated place. And of course, isn't any longer so. It was really interesting to watch the Last King of Scotland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I need to rent that. Yeah, I need to do that. Let's see. And you said you haven't been back to Ethiopia since?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.174607589353553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And of course, was totally oblivious to how dangerous it was. And we did hear that three Peace Corps volunteers were killed that summer, and we were kind of. You know, things were starting to happen and we were, you know, but we just assumed it was some aberration. And, you know, we went to Entebbe. And of course, a couple of months after we were in Entebbe, the Peace Corps volunteers were captive, held captive there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was close."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in October. I had been there in July. Yeah. My mother was saying, oh, I'm so glad you're not there now. And I was saying, oh, but that's such a wonderful hotel. If you're going to be held captive, it's a great place. Um. Yeah. Murchison Falls was wonderful. We stayed in a tent and heard the hippos munching at night and the lions roaring and everything. It was fabulous. It was. It's still today is the most fabulous vacation I've ever had in my life. And there were six of us on this and, you know, I'm still in contact with most of those people actually. So a very interesting experience. That's the capital of Uganda at that time was a wonderful, bustling, sophisticated place. And of course, isn't any longer so. It was really interesting to watch the Last King of Scotland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I need to rent that. Yeah, I need to do that. Let's see. And you said you haven't been back to Ethiopia since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't been back to Africa at all. No. One of my friends has. One of my friends from Gondar has, and he's told me all about it. So it's really interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that in the retirement goals to get there or do you have a desire to get there at this point in your life?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9192686288315457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't been back to Africa at all. No. One of my friends has. One of my friends from Gondar has, and he's told me all about it. So it's really interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that in the retirement goals to get there or do you have a desire to get there at this point in your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I have mixed feelings about it, you know. I think it's difficult to go back to places you've been, you know? Yeah. Particularly when I read, I read a book, you know, and I was reading about Dire Dawa in it. It just, I thought I just couldn't bear to go back there and see how it's changed in a negative way. Because when we were there, we were so optimistic. And you know, it was this period where we believed the world was going to change for the better, and it was only going to take a few years. And, you know, these books were coming out, the greening of the world or whatever. And, you know, we were very optimistic and we certainly never, ever, ever, I think, dreamed that things would get worse rather than better because they were pretty bad. You know, how could they get any worse? So I think. But apparently the health colleges are booming. You know, Gondar is a much bigger city. You know, some things have gotten better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say your biggest achievements were as a PCV?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know that I achieved anything for the people there. I mean, I guess, um, you know, I did a decent job teaching and maybe some of the people who were my students think I did a decent job. I don't know. Mengistu, obviously, is very grateful to Peace Corps in general. His life was certainly enhanced by our presence, and I think for me, the best thing was what it did for me. And, you know, how that's influenced my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any things that you have written down that you wanted to make sure you got to talk about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.838603245471044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know that I achieved anything for the people there. I mean, I guess, um, you know, I did a decent job teaching and maybe some of the people who were my students think I did a decent job. I don't know. Mengistu, obviously, is very grateful to Peace Corps in general. His life was certainly enhanced by our presence, and I think for me, the best thing was what it did for me. And, you know, how that's influenced my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any things that you have written down that you wanted to make sure you got to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, probably not. No, I don't think so. No, it's OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the questions that the Peace Corps asks is to think about your Peace Corps years in light of the three goals of Peace Corps. To think about whether those were part of, you know, how you think about your service. So did you feel like you provided technical assistance? So you already mentioned you did your best teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you know, I guess it was OK. Actually, when I left, an Ethiopian took over my job, and so I felt really good about that. I think the job that I was doing actually could have been done by an Ethiopian. Maybe my students got some cultural insights they wouldn't get from an Ethiopian. But other than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that would be cultural in terms of understanding the U.S. in different ways."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 5.37622582830116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, probably not. No, I don't think so. No, it's OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the questions that the Peace Corps asks is to think about your Peace Corps years in light of the three goals of Peace Corps. To think about whether those were part of, you know, how you think about your service. So did you feel like you provided technical assistance? So you already mentioned you did your best teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you know, I guess it was OK. Actually, when I left, an Ethiopian took over my job, and so I felt really good about that. I think the job that I was doing actually could have been done by an Ethiopian. Maybe my students got some cultural insights they wouldn't get from an Ethiopian. But other than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that would be cultural in terms of understanding the U.S. in different ways."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, it was probably interesting for them to have a pink, a pink person as they called me. They said, this one kid would say, miss? What do they call you, white? You are pink. You know, so I think it's always interesting for cultures to have interaction in that way, but I wouldn't say that I gave Ethiopia anything special. I would say they gave me much more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um. Have you had students from Ethiopia? Have you had any experiences here where you've been able to call on what you experienced there in your work here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5291398092235113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you know, I guess it was OK. Actually, when I left, an Ethiopian took over my job, and so I felt really good about that. I think the job that I was doing actually could have been done by an Ethiopian. Maybe my students got some cultural insights they wouldn't get from an Ethiopian. But other than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that would be cultural in terms of understanding the U.S. in different ways."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, it was probably interesting for them to have a pink, a pink person as they called me. They said, this one kid would say, miss? What do they call you, white? You are pink. You know, so I think it's always interesting for cultures to have interaction in that way, but I wouldn't say that I gave Ethiopia anything special. I would say they gave me much more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um. Have you had students from Ethiopia? Have you had any experiences here where you've been able to call on what you experienced there in your work here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Interestingly enough, I haven't had very many students from Ethiopia. When I go to D.C. it's really fun because there are tons of Ethiopians and sometimes I, you know, I'll exchange a greeting or so and talk to them. I immediately can spot Ethiopians wherever I go. And I say, oh, you're Ethiopian, are you? Or usually I just go up and say tena yistilin, you know? And interestingly enough, when I gave birth, I was in a, um, afterwards I was in a room in Ames, Iowa, you know, in the hospital. And I looked over and I said, oh yeah, I got an Ethiopian roommate. And she was from Eritrea. I said, you're Ethiopian. She said, well, actually I'm Eritrean, which is, you know, a little sensitive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aren't they at war? Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0975854721858864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, but it's part of, yeah, part of the whole scene. And so we had fun. We had a lot of fun talking about. And she taught me a lot of interesting things about, you know, what it's like. She said, now when you go home, you don't do a thing for a month. And she warned me against doing dishes or anything. I was supposed to be completely at leisure. And so we had a lot of fun conversations about that. And you know, that was interesting for me because, you know, obviously, and for her too, because I'd had this contact and I was, she didn't feel as isolated as I'm sure she felt she would feel. She probably looked over, said, oh, a white woman, you know, a white American, what am I going to be able to talk to her about? And we ended up talking about all kinds of neat things, you know? But I guess mostly when I go to D.C., I really have had some great conversations with Ethiopians there, and some of whom I actually knew when I was in Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's one woman who owns an Ethiopian restaurant who was actually a Peace Corps secretary when we were there. So, yeah, in D.C., it's a different situation. Two of my old Peace Corps friends are there. But here, probably not. And I don't think I've ever had an Ethiopian student the whole time I've taught."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've met Yawl?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. Uh uh. Unless she's the one from Eritrea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, she's not. She's definitely not."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3306505246509848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's one woman who owns an Ethiopian restaurant who was actually a Peace Corps secretary when we were there. So, yeah, in D.C., it's a different situation. Two of my old Peace Corps friends are there. But here, probably not. And I don't think I've ever had an Ethiopian student the whole time I've taught."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've met Yawl?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. Uh uh. Unless she's the one from Eritrea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, she's not. She's definitely not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I did meet one Ethiopian here. That's right. I did. Yeah, yeah, I did meet one Ethiopian couple of names since I've been here. And yeah, I mean, you know, you have some rich conversations that you wouldn't have otherwise, but no students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you kept up with, you said there was a Peace Corps reunion, your group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5896116940566496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. Uh uh. Unless she's the one from Eritrea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, she's not. She's definitely not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I did meet one Ethiopian here. That's right. I did. Yeah, yeah, I did meet one Ethiopian couple of names since I've been here. And yeah, I mean, you know, you have some rich conversations that you wouldn't have otherwise, but no students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you kept up with, you said there was a Peace Corps reunion, your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you've kept up in some ways with those."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.8773463267296107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I did meet one Ethiopian here. That's right. I did. Yeah, yeah, I did meet one Ethiopian couple of names since I've been here. And yeah, I mean, you know, you have some rich conversations that you wouldn't have otherwise, but no students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you kept up with, you said there was a Peace Corps reunion, your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you've kept up in some ways with those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, it was kind of a, I think it was the internet that enabled that. People, when that site was started, people put, and in fact, that's how Mengistu got in touch with me. And then we decided, somebody in D.C., again, another Peace Corps volunteer from our group in D.C., decided he would have a reunion. So yeah. That was fun. That was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was when?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0859403630329005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you've kept up in some ways with those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, it was kind of a, I think it was the internet that enabled that. People, when that site was started, people put, and in fact, that's how Mengistu got in touch with me. And then we decided, somebody in D.C., again, another Peace Corps volunteer from our group in D.C., decided he would have a reunion. So yeah. That was fun. That was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was when?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was last year, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the first one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5752350160900006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was last year, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the first one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So, of course, all these young, handsome people are now old and not so handsome anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's really something."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8613722401000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So, of course, all these young, handsome people are now old and not so handsome anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's really something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, several people are gone from our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you a member of the returned volunteers, RPCV?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1793024890000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So, of course, all these young, handsome people are now old and not so handsome anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's really something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, several people are gone from our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you a member of the returned volunteers, RPCV?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I am. You know, I get mailings. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think of yourself now, and what would you say, can you articulate what you think being a volunteer did most for you? If you think of yourself now? So you talked about it at the end of service, but what's it meant in your life?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.42144721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, several people are gone from our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you a member of the returned volunteers, RPCV?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I am. You know, I get mailings. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think of yourself now, and what would you say, can you articulate what you think being a volunteer did most for you? If you think of yourself now? So you talked about it at the end of service, but what's it meant in your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it, I think it gives you confidence. I think it gives you a perspective on the world. And I think, in fact, I often. I often say to my husband that I wish George Bush, you know, had been in Peace Corps. I think he'd be a different, different person. Because I think a lot of people just don't get it. You know, they just don't get the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think now of the global food crisis and how much of it we've caused."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6904969000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I am. You know, I get mailings. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think of yourself now, and what would you say, can you articulate what you think being a volunteer did most for you? If you think of yourself now? So you talked about it at the end of service, but what's it meant in your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it, I think it gives you confidence. I think it gives you a perspective on the world. And I think, in fact, I often. I often say to my husband that I wish George Bush, you know, had been in Peace Corps. I think he'd be a different, different person. Because I think a lot of people just don't get it. You know, they just don't get the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think now of the global food crisis and how much of it we've caused."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there's no sense of what that means. I mean, it's awful hearing them [inaudible] but it's so wide scale in other parts in Africa and Haiti and the government, there's no conception of what that means."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.9894410000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it, I think it gives you confidence. I think it gives you a perspective on the world. And I think, in fact, I often. I often say to my husband that I wish George Bush, you know, had been in Peace Corps. I think he'd be a different, different person. Because I think a lot of people just don't get it. You know, they just don't get the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think now of the global food crisis and how much of it we've caused."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there's no sense of what that means. I mean, it's awful hearing them [inaudible] but it's so wide scale in other parts in Africa and Haiti and the government, there's no conception of what that means."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And I really think, you know, if you experienced it firsthand, it makes a huge difference. And just the, I think the whole notion of realizing that people don't think about the world in the same way. You know, my students would say, how can you talk about loving french fries? You can talk about loving God or loving your father, but how can you talk about loving french fries? I think just being confronted with these different ways of looking at the world at a fairly young age, it's really important because it just makes you realize, hey, you know, there's another way to look at things. It's not. It's not necessarily the way I look at things. So I think being kind of jerked out of my own way of thinking and, whoa, never looked at it that way. You know, that sort of feeling was really important for me to have that experience at a young age. You know, that maybe there were different perspectives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a 21 year old, not your daughter, comes to you and says, I'm thinking of joining the Peace Corps, Dr. Vann, what do you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.21049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there's no sense of what that means. I mean, it's awful hearing them [inaudible] but it's so wide scale in other parts in Africa and Haiti and the government, there's no conception of what that means."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And I really think, you know, if you experienced it firsthand, it makes a huge difference. And just the, I think the whole notion of realizing that people don't think about the world in the same way. You know, my students would say, how can you talk about loving french fries? You can talk about loving God or loving your father, but how can you talk about loving french fries? I think just being confronted with these different ways of looking at the world at a fairly young age, it's really important because it just makes you realize, hey, you know, there's another way to look at things. It's not. It's not necessarily the way I look at things. So I think being kind of jerked out of my own way of thinking and, whoa, never looked at it that way. You know, that sort of feeling was really important for me to have that experience at a young age. You know, that maybe there were different perspectives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a 21 year old, not your daughter, comes to you and says, I'm thinking of joining the Peace Corps, Dr. Vann, what do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I always, I'm always, I'm very encouraging of students. I've talked a lot of students into doing that or something similar, you know? Yeah, I think I talked to a student last year into doing Teach for America, and her parents were very much against it, again, you know. And I really talked hard to get her to do it, you know, and I'm sure her parents hate me for it. But she did it. She's doing it right now. And yeah, I've talked several people into doing Peace Corps as well. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you want to say that I haven't thought to ask or that hasn't been asked that you want to share?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I always, I'm always, I'm very encouraging of students. I've talked a lot of students into doing that or something similar, you know? Yeah, I think I talked to a student last year into doing Teach for America, and her parents were very much against it, again, you know. And I really talked hard to get her to do it, you know, and I'm sure her parents hate me for it. But she did it. She's doing it right now. And yeah, I've talked several people into doing Peace Corps as well. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you want to say that I haven't thought to ask or that hasn't been asked that you want to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. My daughter is thinking of joining the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she is. She actually got accepted, in fact. I'm not sure it's right for everybody. You know, I don't want to be like my mom. I'm not going to disown her. But I think some people probably are going to have not such a positive time. And I think also Africa is a very different place now than it was when we were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who knows where she'd get sent to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. My daughter is thinking of joining the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she is. She actually got accepted, in fact. I'm not sure it's right for everybody. You know, I don't want to be like my mom. I'm not going to disown her. But I think some people probably are going to have not such a positive time. And I think also Africa is a very different place now than it was when we were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who knows where she'd get sent to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She would get sent to French speaking Africa. That's why they want her. Yeah. She's French speaking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Sure. We had a guy in our group who had a degree in African studies and spoke French and they sent him to Thailand."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she is. She actually got accepted, in fact. I'm not sure it's right for everybody. You know, I don't want to be like my mom. I'm not going to disown her. But I think some people probably are going to have not such a positive time. And I think also Africa is a very different place now than it was when we were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who knows where she'd get sent to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She would get sent to French speaking Africa. That's why they want her. Yeah. She's French speaking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Sure. We had a guy in our group who had a degree in African studies and spoke French and they sent him to Thailand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They used to do that. They don't do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They don't do that anymore? OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She would get sent to French speaking Africa. That's why they want her. Yeah. She's French speaking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Sure. We had a guy in our group who had a degree in African studies and spoke French and they sent him to Thailand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They used to do that. They don't do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They don't do that anymore? OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, when they found out she spoke French, they immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They just wanted to gobble her up."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, when they found out she spoke French, they immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They just wanted to gobble her up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Moved her to the top of the list and started telling her she would go to West Africa and she would be in a French speaking country and she would be teaching ESL. And what's made her hesitate, actually, is that she doesn't enjoy teaching very much. She's already teaching ESL and she doesn't enjoy it. And you know, there doesn't seem much of a chance for her to do something like, you know, smallpox eradication or, I don't know, whatever it is, you know. It's just going to be classroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Administrative."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Classroom stuff and, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Moved her to the top of the list and started telling her she would go to West Africa and she would be in a French speaking country and she would be teaching ESL. And what's made her hesitate, actually, is that she doesn't enjoy teaching very much. She's already teaching ESL and she doesn't enjoy it. And you know, there doesn't seem much of a chance for her to do something like, you know, smallpox eradication or, I don't know, whatever it is, you know. It's just going to be classroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Administrative."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Classroom stuff and, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think we did it. Very good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00232:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Classroom stuff and, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think we did it. Very good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thanks, Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hello, JFK Library."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.500722403515905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "August 14th. I mean, October."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet it's October."}, {"role": "user", "content": "October 14th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "October 14th, 2015. I am interviewing Joe Hanlon, who was a Peace Corps volunteer in Honduras from 1966 through 1968 in a community organization project. Joe, let's go back to who you were before you joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you grow up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.556358226128783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "October 14th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "October 14th, 2015. I am interviewing Joe Hanlon, who was a Peace Corps volunteer in Honduras from 1966 through 1968 in a community organization project. Joe, let's go back to who you were before you joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peoria, Illinois."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peoria. And were you in a big family? Small family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.72928691792087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peoria, Illinois."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peoria. And were you in a big family? Small family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, small family. I have an older brother five years older than I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the two of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.143652131023188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peoria, Illinois."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peoria. And were you in a big family? Small family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, small family. I have an older brother five years older than I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the two of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And what did your parents do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.82628014558132, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, small family. I have an older brother five years older than I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the two of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And what did your parents do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My dad was a businessman and my mom was an at home homemaker. She had been trained as a as a registered nurse. And she went back to nursing after I went to high school. When I left the house, so to speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But she was home for you when you were a kid?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 29.806977939534796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And what did your parents do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My dad was a businessman and my mom was an at home homemaker. She had been trained as a as a registered nurse. And she went back to nursing after I went to high school. When I left the house, so to speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But she was home for you when you were a kid?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you went to school. What, local public schools?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 28.67441993281644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My dad was a businessman and my mom was an at home homemaker. She had been trained as a as a registered nurse. And she went back to nursing after I went to high school. When I left the house, so to speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But she was home for you when you were a kid?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you went to school. What, local public schools?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. Thomas Jefferson Grade school was nearby. We walked or rode our bikes there. It was probably two or three miles away. I came home for lunch. I remember that. So those eight years was at Thomas Jefferson in Peoria, Illinois."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you went to high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.462246830637582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. Thomas Jefferson Grade school was nearby. We walked or rode our bikes there. It was probably two or three miles away. I came home for lunch. I remember that. So those eight years was at Thomas Jefferson in Peoria, Illinois."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you went to high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peoria High School. Peoria Central High School, it was called. For that, my dad would, on his way to work, he'd take me. And then after a year or so, I had some friends who had cars, so we'd use and get rides and so forth. But high school was a big thing for me. My brother was five years older and so I devoured his yearbooks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I was in seventh and eighth grade, maybe even in sixth grade, in like '56, '57, '58. And also being older, he had those 45 records, you know, Elvis Presley and the Everly Brothers and all that. And so at a very young age, I would secretly play those and lip sync in the mirror over the sink in the bathroom and memorized all those lyrics and tunes, which I know to this day. So anyway, high school was a big thing for me. I mean, I was really excited. I was a good student in grade school. I really liked it, but I sort of knew what I was going to do when I got to high schools by reading those yearbooks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah. Right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.735829811819535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peoria High School. Peoria Central High School, it was called. For that, my dad would, on his way to work, he'd take me. And then after a year or so, I had some friends who had cars, so we'd use and get rides and so forth. But high school was a big thing for me. My brother was five years older and so I devoured his yearbooks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I was in seventh and eighth grade, maybe even in sixth grade, in like '56, '57, '58. And also being older, he had those 45 records, you know, Elvis Presley and the Everly Brothers and all that. And so at a very young age, I would secretly play those and lip sync in the mirror over the sink in the bathroom and memorized all those lyrics and tunes, which I know to this day. So anyway, high school was a big thing for me. I mean, I was really excited. I was a good student in grade school. I really liked it, but I sort of knew what I was going to do when I got to high schools by reading those yearbooks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And thinking about the sports and the studies and the various clubs and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do some sports in high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.150922013132817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I was in seventh and eighth grade, maybe even in sixth grade, in like '56, '57, '58. And also being older, he had those 45 records, you know, Elvis Presley and the Everly Brothers and all that. And so at a very young age, I would secretly play those and lip sync in the mirror over the sink in the bathroom and memorized all those lyrics and tunes, which I know to this day. So anyway, high school was a big thing for me. I mean, I was really excited. I was a good student in grade school. I really liked it, but I sort of knew what I was going to do when I got to high schools by reading those yearbooks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And thinking about the sports and the studies and the various clubs and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do some sports in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah. I played football. I was on the track team. I managed a basketball team, varsity basketball. That's about it. But we had a good football team, great leadership. And actually I made the all- conference fullback my senior year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. I'm pleased to know you. And what about academics? What were you drawn to in high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 25.723246681258686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And thinking about the sports and the studies and the various clubs and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do some sports in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah. I played football. I was on the track team. I managed a basketball team, varsity basketball. That's about it. But we had a good football team, great leadership. And actually I made the all- conference fullback my senior year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. I'm pleased to know you. And what about academics? What were you drawn to in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pre, pre college, is that what it is? I mean, I knew I wanted to go to college. And so I took all the hardest, you know, English and math. I wasn't the best, but I was very high up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you study a foreign language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.025829645842986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah. I played football. I was on the track team. I managed a basketball team, varsity basketball. That's about it. But we had a good football team, great leadership. And actually I made the all- conference fullback my senior year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. I'm pleased to know you. And what about academics? What were you drawn to in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pre, pre college, is that what it is? I mean, I knew I wanted to go to college. And so I took all the hardest, you know, English and math. I wasn't the best, but I was very high up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you study a foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I studied Latin for two years, my freshman and sophomore year. I thought, you know, I never even conceived of speaking it or anything like that. Just to sort of take off for a second. Language in college was a requirement and it very much worried me and bothered me because I felt like I had no inclination or special aptitude for foreign, speaking a foreign language. And they actually had a conversational class. It was all set up. It was in the, you know, early sixties for college for me, and with labs and earphones and tapes. It wasn't academic, it was conversational."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is in high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.58425516204776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pre, pre college, is that what it is? I mean, I knew I wanted to go to college. And so I took all the hardest, you know, English and math. I wasn't the best, but I was very high up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you study a foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I studied Latin for two years, my freshman and sophomore year. I thought, you know, I never even conceived of speaking it or anything like that. Just to sort of take off for a second. Language in college was a requirement and it very much worried me and bothered me because I felt like I had no inclination or special aptitude for foreign, speaking a foreign language. And they actually had a conversational class. It was all set up. It was in the, you know, early sixties for college for me, and with labs and earphones and tapes. It wasn't academic, it was conversational."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, later in college? Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 26.64722859512069, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, later in college? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm thinking about foreign language.\n\nAnyway, I took two years of French and felt like I didn't learn a word of French. Never. So anyway, when it came time for the Peace Corps, that was really a concern of mine. And I kind of dove into it in training and so forth. But anyway, after being in-country for three or four months, and basically the five, six, and seven year olds that were in my neighborhood taught me how to speak Spanish. You know, they didn't laugh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They understood exactly what I was struggling with because they had just recently learned that part of it. And so I thought I got pretty good at my Spanish at the time, and it was a big accomplishment for me then, since I'd had that negative kind of experience with Latin and French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the classroom, right. Yeah. Outside of school, as a high school kid, did you, did you go places with your families? Did you travel, vacation, summer vacations?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.268183450766283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They understood exactly what I was struggling with because they had just recently learned that part of it. And so I thought I got pretty good at my Spanish at the time, and it was a big accomplishment for me then, since I'd had that negative kind of experience with Latin and French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the classroom, right. Yeah. Outside of school, as a high school kid, did you, did you go places with your families? Did you travel, vacation, summer vacations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. I don't know exactly why my parents were, you know, wired this way, but when I was four or five, we drove with another couple to Monterrey, Mexico, from Des Moines, Iowa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I can remember the hotel. I can remember the, uh, there was like a nightclub that our parents took us to for dinner and stuff. And there were, like, dancers and uh. And then, you know, during the daytime, we rode these burros and we went out and visited somewhere, and everybody got on a burro. And there were souvenirs, like carved baseball bats with Mexican colors and designs. And it was really an exciting thing. And I saved those souvenirs in my bedroom for years. And my, well, and then as we got older, my dad, we took a two week road trip every summer. And, you know, we'd go to California and stop at all the national parks. And next year, we go visit relatives in Seattle. Stop at. We went to New England. We went to Washington, D.C. We went to New York City. You know, it's kind of ironic. The only place that they were not interested in going was Florida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where you are now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 14.74242605640698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. I don't know exactly why my parents were, you know, wired this way, but when I was four or five, we drove with another couple to Monterrey, Mexico, from Des Moines, Iowa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I can remember the hotel. I can remember the, uh, there was like a nightclub that our parents took us to for dinner and stuff. And there were, like, dancers and uh. And then, you know, during the daytime, we rode these burros and we went out and visited somewhere, and everybody got on a burro. And there were souvenirs, like carved baseball bats with Mexican colors and designs. And it was really an exciting thing. And I saved those souvenirs in my bedroom for years. And my, well, and then as we got older, my dad, we took a two week road trip every summer. And, you know, we'd go to California and stop at all the national parks. And next year, we go visit relatives in Seattle. Stop at. We went to New England. We went to Washington, D.C. We went to New York City. You know, it's kind of ironic. The only place that they were not interested in going was Florida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where you are now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where I live now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about summer jobs when you got to be 16?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.212871674576518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where I live now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about summer jobs when you got to be 16?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was always looking to make a little bit of money there. I guess I had two big summer jobs in high school. One was working for my dad's company, which was a gasoline retailing company around central Illinois, so that there were these small tanks for gasoline that were on farms for farm tractors and farm equipment, and they needed to be painted. And so I had to enlist a buddy of mine. And so we went around painting those things. And at times it would be, we'd stay out in the field for like a week at a time, stay at a local motel out there, because it would be a couple of hundred miles from home, and you wouldn't want to make that trip every day.\n\nThe other sort of major job that I had, both in high school and college, was a summer job working at a Portland Cement Company warehouse, I'll call it. It was on a branch of the Illinois River, and there was an elevator and a train, uh, like a little stub of a, of a train track. And they offloaded this dry Portland cement through some kind of a pneumatic tube thing and put it in this elevator, huge tank overhead. And then trucks would come in there and they would load up these trucks with this dry cement. And then they also loaded up railroad cars with this dry cement off the barge from the river. And so that was a good job. That was a Teamster job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think that was like 4 or 5 dollars an hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was pretty good then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.014301860640575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was always looking to make a little bit of money there. I guess I had two big summer jobs in high school. One was working for my dad's company, which was a gasoline retailing company around central Illinois, so that there were these small tanks for gasoline that were on farms for farm tractors and farm equipment, and they needed to be painted. And so I had to enlist a buddy of mine. And so we went around painting those things. And at times it would be, we'd stay out in the field for like a week at a time, stay at a local motel out there, because it would be a couple of hundred miles from home, and you wouldn't want to make that trip every day.\n\nThe other sort of major job that I had, both in high school and college, was a summer job working at a Portland Cement Company warehouse, I'll call it. It was on a branch of the Illinois River, and there was an elevator and a train, uh, like a little stub of a, of a train track. And they offloaded this dry Portland cement through some kind of a pneumatic tube thing and put it in this elevator, huge tank overhead. And then trucks would come in there and they would load up these trucks with this dry cement. And then they also loaded up railroad cars with this dry cement off the barge from the river. And so that was a good job. That was a Teamster job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think that was like 4 or 5 dollars an hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was pretty good then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Big money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You dad helped you get in there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.904779845156195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think that was like 4 or 5 dollars an hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was pretty good then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Big money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You dad helped you get in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he didn't. He didn't have, I don't know exactly. I can't remember why I found that, but he didn't have anything to do with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Well, good for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.894199827951327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Big money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You dad helped you get in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he didn't. He didn't have, I don't know exactly. I can't remember why I found that, but he didn't have anything to do with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Well, good for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you graduate from high school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.993555364390364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he didn't. He didn't have, I don't know exactly. I can't remember why I found that, but he didn't have anything to do with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Well, good for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you graduate from high school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you choose a college."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.215061515989293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you graduate from high school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you choose a college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had, your brother was five years older than you, so had he gone on to college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.500075945665793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had, your brother was five years older than you, so had he gone on to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did. He went to Bradley, which is a local school in Peoria. And actually he wasn't so driven academically as I was. And so he dropped out after a couple of years and worked somewhere. My parents, you know, said you're going to have to get a job. And so he diligently figured out how to get back into school and finish. He actually got a master's degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After that. But my big accomplishment was going to Yale University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As an undergraduate?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.086513513167647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After that. But my big accomplishment was going to Yale University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As an undergraduate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so and that's something, you know, my father must have been so generous. I mean, to pay for that. At the time, I never, you take it for granted. But anyway, so that was great fun. Another classmate of mine from high school got in and so we drove out there and we'd come home for the holidays back to Peoria driving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And what did you study at Yale?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.166763470763064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's, uh, it was at the time. It still is. I'm kind of proud of it. But it was part of the sixties creative curriculum kind of thinking. It was a major comprised of four departments: psychology, sociology, biology, and anthropology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an honors program. There were like maybe ten or 15 students in it. At that time Yale was all men. The full four years I went there, it was all men. So it was a small program, honors program. There were, freshman, sophomore year at Yale, there was sort of a commitment, a curriculum probably for 80 percent of your classes. And then you could begin to do your major stuff in your junior and senior year. And there was a paper too, some kind of a paper. But anyway, it was fun because I could choose in that major, I could choose higher level courses and graduate courses in the biology department, in the psychology department, in the anthropology and sociology, and then put together your own sort of curriculum. And I got good grades, I was a good student, and so that's what I did.\n\nAnd it was good training for Peace Corps. And the idea at the time in the sixties, culture and behavior is, you know, those, that's when the Darwinian evolution was sort of sinking in. Not really. Everybody was a Darwinian. There were nothing else, but evolution of, um, not just physical DNA, but behavior and man as a social animal. Instincts, you know? How does a spider make a web? How does a bird know to migrate across, you know, endless ocean without any speck of land in sight? And how is it that men have come to be so technologically proficient and develop their material culture, and so forth. All that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Provocative questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I know that when you went into the Peace Corps, you went in as a married man and you married somebody from Peoria."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.407514967514516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an honors program. There were like maybe ten or 15 students in it. At that time Yale was all men. The full four years I went there, it was all men. So it was a small program, honors program. There were, freshman, sophomore year at Yale, there was sort of a commitment, a curriculum probably for 80 percent of your classes. And then you could begin to do your major stuff in your junior and senior year. And there was a paper too, some kind of a paper. But anyway, it was fun because I could choose in that major, I could choose higher level courses and graduate courses in the biology department, in the psychology department, in the anthropology and sociology, and then put together your own sort of curriculum. And I got good grades, I was a good student, and so that's what I did.\n\nAnd it was good training for Peace Corps. And the idea at the time in the sixties, culture and behavior is, you know, those, that's when the Darwinian evolution was sort of sinking in. Not really. Everybody was a Darwinian. There were nothing else, but evolution of, um, not just physical DNA, but behavior and man as a social animal. Instincts, you know? How does a spider make a web? How does a bird know to migrate across, you know, endless ocean without any speck of land in sight? And how is it that men have come to be so technologically proficient and develop their material culture, and so forth. All that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Provocative questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I know that when you went into the Peace Corps, you went in as a married man and you married somebody from Peoria."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just talk briefly about how you met Bev. And was she at Yale when you were at Yale?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.786127741682796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I know that when you went into the Peace Corps, you went in as a married man and you married somebody from Peoria."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just talk briefly about how you met Bev. And was she at Yale when you were at Yale?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went, you had."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.31620708849728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went, you had."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So our love affair started, you know, fairly innocuously as we were classmates in homeroom freshman year. We'd gone to different grade schools. So I didn't really know her, but, uh, and we were, we were good friends in high school. We really didn't date much. And senior year we dated a little bit, but it was just that we were competitors actually, like officers for the student council. And actually our, for the student council president, we ran against each other and she won. She was president and I was vice president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway, the romance kind of started in college and I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you'd come home for vacation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.32865072653985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway, the romance kind of started in college and I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you'd come home for vacation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think I proposed to her like the summer after my junior year, and we sort of began planning and thinking about what to do. And the Peace Corps was something that both of us were interested in. And we applied as a, you know, before we were married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this would have been what year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.58738969615539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think I proposed to her like the summer after my junior year, and we sort of began planning and thinking about what to do. And the Peace Corps was something that both of us were interested in. And we applied as a, you know, before we were married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this would have been what year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "'65. We got married in the spring of '66. I graduated in June, and we went into the Peace Corps like in August of '66."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So you both were talking about Peace Corps. You were both interested in it. Did you know other people who had been in the Peace Corps? Were any of your friends joining the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.672688197744018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. No, I don't think I knew anybody. Another thing I should say is the Vietnam War and the draft were a big motivator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And for Bev and I as a married couple. I can't remember all the details about my draft number, but I'd had a safe deferment in college. The headlines were full of the dangers and risks. I think it was just the time when the U.S. was gearing up with a much heavier sort of boots on the ground military involvement in '64 and '65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you get married in, when did you say, in spring of '60?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.64529407128891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And for Bev and I as a married couple. I can't remember all the details about my draft number, but I'd had a safe deferment in college. The headlines were full of the dangers and risks. I think it was just the time when the U.S. was gearing up with a much heavier sort of boots on the ground military involvement in '64 and '65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you get married in, when did you say, in spring of '60?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "April. Six."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1966."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had graduated from college in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.064875269257765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we hadn't graduated. It was my senior year. And so we just, we got an apartment for a couple of months, and I just blindly wrapped up all my senior year commitments and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She had left college. She went to the U of I, down at Champaign-Urbana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Illinois."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And, uh, but she had left after her freshman year or sophomore year, to take a year off. She was working in Peoria for a year. Then she went back and then we sort of decided to get married and it was kind of impulsive. So she dropped out that year too. So when we moved in together in New Haven in the spring of '66, I was doing everything I had to do to complete all my requirements to be able to graduate and to go into the Peace Corps. That was the next big thing on our agenda."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So you applied separately before you were married?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.981327492910821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And, uh, but she had left after her freshman year or sophomore year, to take a year off. She was working in Peoria for a year. Then she went back and then we sort of decided to get married and it was kind of impulsive. So she dropped out that year too. So when we moved in together in New Haven in the spring of '66, I was doing everything I had to do to complete all my requirements to be able to graduate and to go into the Peace Corps. That was the next big thing on our agenda."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So you applied separately before you were married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Probably like in November or December."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we applied, you know, I can remember the application. It was like Africa, Asia, Latin America, Micronesia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those were the choices that you were given?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.868141658789801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Probably like in November or December."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we applied, you know, I can remember the application. It was like Africa, Asia, Latin America, Micronesia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those were the choices that you were given?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they ask you to rank those in in order of your preference?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.853490731988668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we applied, you know, I can remember the application. It was like Africa, Asia, Latin America, Micronesia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those were the choices that you were given?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they ask you to rank those in in order of your preference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was just one. You know, I can't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So which one you did you say you wanted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.942581150603294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was just one. You know, I can't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So which one you did you say you wanted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we talked about it and it's like, well, Latin America. Okay. So we sent it in and then we were accepted. And, you know, the letter said Honduras, and it was like Honduras, where's that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where's that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we go to the atlas and look it up. Well, there is a place called Central America, and Honduras is one of them. Let's go. But it wasn't, uh, it wasn't because of a burning interest or deep knowledge about Mexico or Latin American culture. It's just, you know, pick. Pick one out of five world continental."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that sounded okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.047312389559215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we talked about it and it's like, well, Latin America. Okay. So we sent it in and then we were accepted. And, you know, the letter said Honduras, and it was like Honduras, where's that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where's that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we go to the atlas and look it up. Well, there is a place called Central America, and Honduras is one of them. Let's go. But it wasn't, uh, it wasn't because of a burning interest or deep knowledge about Mexico or Latin American culture. It's just, you know, pick. Pick one out of five world continental."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that sounded okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your, what was the reaction of your family, your mom and dad, your older brother? Did they, what did they think about this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.052569321732461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we go to the atlas and look it up. Well, there is a place called Central America, and Honduras is one of them. Let's go. But it wasn't, uh, it wasn't because of a burning interest or deep knowledge about Mexico or Latin American culture. It's just, you know, pick. Pick one out of five world continental."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that sounded okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your, what was the reaction of your family, your mom and dad, your older brother? Did they, what did they think about this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My older brother was married and had a kid by that time, and we were close to them. We were close to my parents. Everybody was in favor of it. It was like, okay. I was probably, I think I got accepted into law school. I think I went through the application procedure to go to law school at University of Chicago, and actually my class, my roommate Eddie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your roommate at Yale?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.058410357480513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your, what was the reaction of your family, your mom and dad, your older brother? Did they, what did they think about this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My older brother was married and had a kid by that time, and we were close to them. We were close to my parents. Everybody was in favor of it. It was like, okay. I was probably, I think I got accepted into law school. I think I went through the application procedure to go to law school at University of Chicago, and actually my class, my roommate Eddie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your roommate at Yale?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We both applied there together and he got in and I got in and then, but I sort of. Anyway, everything seemed to be fine. The idea was, and the University of Chicago said, you can go to the Peace Corps and we'll honor that when you get out, when you come back. And so that was not, it was not conflictful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. So you and Bev were invited to go and train. Where did you train?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.961000441333965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We both applied there together and he got in and I got in and then, but I sort of. Anyway, everything seemed to be fine. The idea was, and the University of Chicago said, you can go to the Peace Corps and we'll honor that when you get out, when you come back. And so that was not, it was not conflictful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. So you and Bev were invited to go and train. Where did you train?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Saint Louis University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that right? Or maybe Washington University in Saint Louis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Saint Louis."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.623333823704407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Saint Louis University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that right? Or maybe Washington University in Saint Louis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Saint Louis."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Saint Louis, I think that's where. They had, they had, uh, trained Honduran groups for several years. They had a core program there. This guy named Ray Swan was a director for our specific group. I think our group was seven. Honduras VII. And I think that there would have been 60 or 70 of us that converged on that campus. We lived in the Y and went to classes over on the university campus. Married people were together in rooms. Single people were more roommates and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were all at the Y?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.359259804116007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that right? Or maybe Washington University in Saint Louis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Saint Louis."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Saint Louis, I think that's where. They had, they had, uh, trained Honduran groups for several years. They had a core program there. This guy named Ray Swan was a director for our specific group. I think our group was seven. Honduras VII. And I think that there would have been 60 or 70 of us that converged on that campus. We lived in the Y and went to classes over on the university campus. Married people were together in rooms. Single people were more roommates and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were all at the Y?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm pretty sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many? How big was your training group, do you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.085505931007416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm pretty sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many? How big was your training group, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think 60 or 70 people were in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To start?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, yeah. Big group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many married couples?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.09500659000824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think 60 or 70 people were in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To start?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, yeah. Big group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too many. Maybe five. Ten couples, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're at the Y and you go to the university for classes. Talk about that a little bit. What did they, what were they teaching you in training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.36489244171226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The introduction when we got there and some of the descriptive information we took there from that was mailed to us described our project as being social workers are going to work with the national social work organization or agency in Honduras, whose titular head was the wife of the president of Honduras. And so we would be spread out throughout the country, sort of associated with schools and, uh, I want to say alcaldes, mayors. But anyway, where they were hoping to set up and expand an existing social work program. And so we were going to be the manpower. So in St. Louis, we trained. We learned how to sort of manage and conduct children's games. Kickball."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did some gardening. We had gardens, and actually we had them in those, near those sort of despicable high rises that were later blown down. I don't remember the name of it, but it was, uh. So we, you know, we did various, I'm going to call social work type activities, and that was the program that we studied, because half of the curriculum was conversational Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the other half was this kind of varied social work stuff, whatever they could put together. The whole thing was scheduled to last about three months, so it wasn't like we were going to get deeply trained in any kind of social work activity or accomplishment. But we, you know, the language training was intense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who taught it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.516547157458067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did some gardening. We had gardens, and actually we had them in those, near those sort of despicable high rises that were later blown down. I don't remember the name of it, but it was, uh. So we, you know, we did various, I'm going to call social work type activities, and that was the program that we studied, because half of the curriculum was conversational Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the other half was this kind of varied social work stuff, whatever they could put together. The whole thing was scheduled to last about three months, so it wasn't like we were going to get deeply trained in any kind of social work activity or accomplishment. But we, you know, the language training was intense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who taught it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two or three native Hondurans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was Honduran Spanish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.462830174953407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the other half was this kind of varied social work stuff, whatever they could put together. The whole thing was scheduled to last about three months, so it wasn't like we were going to get deeply trained in any kind of social work activity or accomplishment. But we, you know, the language training was intense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who taught it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two or three native Hondurans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was Honduran Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yes, I think so. There were some American Spanish, you know, they were Spanish, but they were Americans. But there were, I bet half of the teachers were from Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's terrific. And then were there classes about the history of Honduras, political situation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 10.51425574994823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two or three native Hondurans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was Honduran Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yes, I think so. There were some American Spanish, you know, they were Spanish, but they were Americans. But there were, I bet half of the teachers were from Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's terrific. And then were there classes about the history of Honduras, political situation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I know that we had some book assignments and stuff like that, that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if there were American studies, talk about communism?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1040194443805307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I know that we had some book assignments and stuff like that, that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if there were American studies, talk about communism?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I do remember that we were told that we couldn't wear beards. You couldn't be like Castro. Castro was fairly new. He had just come in in '59 or '60 into Cuba, and he was exporting his Cuban revolution throughout Central America and the Caribbean. And it was a big concern to the Americans and to the established governments of Mexico and Central America. So anyway, we were, we couldn't have beards. We shouldn't be dressing like Che and Fidel. Sandals were kind of prohibited because, again, that, it looked like you could possibly be a leftist communist guerrilla. I think the women were told to wear skirts and dress formally, not too. Uh. I don't want to say loose, but you know, it was the time of the hippies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so long hair."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were not to look like a hippie."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.448910493756145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I do remember that we were told that we couldn't wear beards. You couldn't be like Castro. Castro was fairly new. He had just come in in '59 or '60 into Cuba, and he was exporting his Cuban revolution throughout Central America and the Caribbean. And it was a big concern to the Americans and to the established governments of Mexico and Central America. So anyway, we were, we couldn't have beards. We shouldn't be dressing like Che and Fidel. Sandals were kind of prohibited because, again, that, it looked like you could possibly be a leftist communist guerrilla. I think the women were told to wear skirts and dress formally, not too. Uh. I don't want to say loose, but you know, it was the time of the hippies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so long hair."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were not to look like a hippie."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you weren't to look like a hippie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. No tattered blue jeans."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0233462885878333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you weren't to look like a hippie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. No tattered blue jeans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah.\n\nSo part of training often is medical stuff. Did they give you a whole battery of vaccinations?\n\nYes. I think Beverly had her wisdom teeth pulled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a routine. They looked at mine and I said, I want to keep them. So I didn't have them pulled. But yeah, we went through some kind of screening for that and it was not an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have physical ed training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7325262822072016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a routine. They looked at mine and I said, I want to keep them. So I didn't have them pulled. But yeah, we went through some kind of screening for that and it was not an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have physical ed training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, yeah, you might say sports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sports."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit of activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not like an Outward Bound endurance challenge?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.147251424674669, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, yeah, you might say sports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sports."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit of activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not like an Outward Bound endurance challenge?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don't think we did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Deselection. Was that part of your training program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.688959430280753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There were several times when there was sort of a black ball exercise where we were all given lists of everybody and said, you know, do you think that this person should continue and go or should this person not go? And I can't remember that I really had strong feelings about anybody not going. But there were, there were some that were deselected out. I think there were sort of, there were several self-selected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People who were ambivalent, who had other things to do. It wasn't turning out to be what they thought it would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, a lot of the men with this deferment thing hanging over. It was like, you know, we want to get finished with this, get the deferment, and go to Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do it. Yeah. Did you have psychologists coming out to interview you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.023406704050313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, a lot of the men with this deferment thing hanging over. It was like, you know, we want to get finished with this, get the deferment, and go to Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do it. Yeah. Did you have psychologists coming out to interview you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we did. I think we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Individual sessions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe. Maybe. Maybe not everybody. Maybe just some people who were showing worse signs than others. I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you remember, um, do you ever remember feeling that there was some injustice, that people got deselected who you thought would be terrific volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.692674115611458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we did. I think we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Individual sessions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe. Maybe. Maybe not everybody. Maybe just some people who were showing worse signs than others. I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you remember, um, do you ever remember feeling that there was some injustice, that people got deselected who you thought would be terrific volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don't remember having any strong feelings about that. I think a draft board got this one Black guy in our group, and that was, it seemed bad and it seemed racist because my draft board was cooperating. I don't remember where he was from and I don't really remember anything about it except that his participation didn't protect him at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And you thought it ought to for most of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.43630457290162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe. Maybe. Maybe not everybody. Maybe just some people who were showing worse signs than others. I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you remember, um, do you ever remember feeling that there was some injustice, that people got deselected who you thought would be terrific volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don't remember having any strong feelings about that. I think a draft board got this one Black guy in our group, and that was, it seemed bad and it seemed racist because my draft board was cooperating. I don't remember where he was from and I don't really remember anything about it except that his participation didn't protect him at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And you thought it ought to for most of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was doing it for all the white kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other Black people or was he the only one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.929227303224022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don't remember having any strong feelings about that. I think a draft board got this one Black guy in our group, and that was, it seemed bad and it seemed racist because my draft board was cooperating. I don't remember where he was from and I don't really remember anything about it except that his participation didn't protect him at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And you thought it ought to for most of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was doing it for all the white kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other Black people or was he the only one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there were several. I think there were some females. Uh. I do remember Powell, a girl named Powell, who was, she was Japanese. Her parents had been interned. She had actually spent some time in one of those in the Second World War in California. I'd never met anybody like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. So that was one of the interesting aspects of training, of being mixed together with people quite different from those you would have met even at Yale."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.476919225804469, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was doing it for all the white kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other Black people or was he the only one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there were several. I think there were some females. Uh. I do remember Powell, a girl named Powell, who was, she was Japanese. Her parents had been interned. She had actually spent some time in one of those in the Second World War in California. I'd never met anybody like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. So that was one of the interesting aspects of training, of being mixed together with people quite different from those you would have met even at Yale."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you develop close friendships with some of your fellow trainees?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.761628673832677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you develop close friendships with some of your fellow trainees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, yeah. Certainly the ones that we went on to be close to in country. And there were some that we had good friendships with who didn't go. And so there was no future to that or didn't follow up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we had a good time. We had a good time in Saint Louis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think it prepared you? Was it an adequate training program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.401809637591863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, yeah. Certainly the ones that we went on to be close to in country. And there were some that we had good friendships with who didn't go. And so there was no future to that or didn't follow up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we had a good time. We had a good time in Saint Louis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think it prepared you? Was it an adequate training program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, about two thirds of the way through, the sky race one gathered us all together one morning and said, well, the social work program has just collapsed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Oh my."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.903468688385016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, about two thirds of the way through, the sky race one gathered us all together one morning and said, well, the social work program has just collapsed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Oh my."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What we thought you were going to go do for various bureaucratic reasons, you're not going to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't worry, we'll find something for you to do, but you're not going to do that. And it was like, well, uh, what does that mean? What are we going to do? Nobody knew. Nobody, nobody had any answers. And I guess even, I think that some people knew. I think I'm just, I've kind of forgotten or put it out of mind about why it was. Maybe it was local politics in Honduras more than any Peace Corps snafu. But again.\n\nYou know, we were not teachers going to teach. We were not engineers going to be engineers or some of the specialized Peace Corps programs that I think are more prevalent nowadays. I think it's more technical now. You kind of get, they select for a specific type activities. You get training for that and you go do it and you make a contribution. For us, it was really the community organization, the people to people kind of stuff, and it was. In an important way, it didn't make any difference what kind of training we'd had or what kind of. As long as we could go there and they would support us health wise and so forth, it didn't matter to me what we were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it's not clearly defined."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.78163187598335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What we thought you were going to go do for various bureaucratic reasons, you're not going to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't worry, we'll find something for you to do, but you're not going to do that. And it was like, well, uh, what does that mean? What are we going to do? Nobody knew. Nobody, nobody had any answers. And I guess even, I think that some people knew. I think I'm just, I've kind of forgotten or put it out of mind about why it was. Maybe it was local politics in Honduras more than any Peace Corps snafu. But again.\n\nYou know, we were not teachers going to teach. We were not engineers going to be engineers or some of the specialized Peace Corps programs that I think are more prevalent nowadays. I think it's more technical now. You kind of get, they select for a specific type activities. You get training for that and you go do it and you make a contribution. For us, it was really the community organization, the people to people kind of stuff, and it was. In an important way, it didn't make any difference what kind of training we'd had or what kind of. As long as we could go there and they would support us health wise and so forth, it didn't matter to me what we were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it's not clearly defined."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What your role was supposed to be. Um, is there anything else you'd like to say about training before we move on, into Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.439824246890739, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great language training. I think toward the end, it was almost 12 hours a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a couple of weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, again, I try to describe that frustration I felt about being naturally disinclined to learn a foreign language and kind of. But I think that the repetitive, lengthy, intensive training that we did get in St. Louis sort of laid the foundation so that I could pick it up easily when I got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you got there. Yeah. So training comes to an end. Swearing in ceremony maybe? Do you remember anything about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.488693607656376, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a couple of weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, again, I try to describe that frustration I felt about being naturally disinclined to learn a foreign language and kind of. But I think that the repetitive, lengthy, intensive training that we did get in St. Louis sort of laid the foundation so that I could pick it up easily when I got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you got there. Yeah. So training comes to an end. Swearing in ceremony maybe? Do you remember anything about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, we went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You get to go home after training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.542992897395973, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, again, I try to describe that frustration I felt about being naturally disinclined to learn a foreign language and kind of. But I think that the repetitive, lengthy, intensive training that we did get in St. Louis sort of laid the foundation so that I could pick it up easily when I got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you got there. Yeah. So training comes to an end. Swearing in ceremony maybe? Do you remember anything about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, we went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You get to go home after training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went home for a week or two or some period of time. And when we were there, I can remember Bev and I ran around Peoria putting together that trunk. We had a trunk, some kind of a dimension. We went and got one of those and we actually bought that chicken fryer thing that you see over there, some kind of a cast iron. We went down to the hardware store and bought some cooking type stuff. I went to the clothing store and bought some basics. Bev's sister-in-law made her several dresses. You know, we tried to think about two years and being in this foreign place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Where it was going to be hot."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.49221433043997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, we went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You get to go home after training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went home for a week or two or some period of time. And when we were there, I can remember Bev and I ran around Peoria putting together that trunk. We had a trunk, some kind of a dimension. We went and got one of those and we actually bought that chicken fryer thing that you see over there, some kind of a cast iron. We went down to the hardware store and bought some cooking type stuff. I went to the clothing store and bought some basics. Bev's sister-in-law made her several dresses. You know, we tried to think about two years and being in this foreign place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Where it was going to be hot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And, you know, we knew we could get, like, toothpaste and stuff like that, so we didn't have to stockpile. But for example, I went to the Army Navy surplus store and bought like three or four pairs of shoes, which turned out to be trash. They were just very poorly made and fell apart the first time I wore them. But anyway, stuff like that that you kind of tried to think about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right, right. They probably gave you a list of things that you needed too."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.546904811599966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went home for a week or two or some period of time. And when we were there, I can remember Bev and I ran around Peoria putting together that trunk. We had a trunk, some kind of a dimension. We went and got one of those and we actually bought that chicken fryer thing that you see over there, some kind of a cast iron. We went down to the hardware store and bought some cooking type stuff. I went to the clothing store and bought some basics. Bev's sister-in-law made her several dresses. You know, we tried to think about two years and being in this foreign place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Where it was going to be hot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And, you know, we knew we could get, like, toothpaste and stuff like that, so we didn't have to stockpile. But for example, I went to the Army Navy surplus store and bought like three or four pairs of shoes, which turned out to be trash. They were just very poorly made and fell apart the first time I wore them. But anyway, stuff like that that you kind of tried to think about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right, right. They probably gave you a list of things that you needed too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you're saying goodbye to your family. Do you remember going away parties?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.020870137777734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you're saying goodbye to your family. Do you remember going away parties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I'm sure there were some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had friends there. I can remember some friends of ours from high school gave us a wedding present because we had gotten married in New Haven really. So they had just, so back in Peoria, there were some stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you go somewhere to get on a plane."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.075148318244114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had friends there. I can remember some friends of ours from high school gave us a wedding present because we had gotten married in New Haven really. So they had just, so back in Peoria, there were some stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you go somewhere to get on a plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm sure that we got on it in Peoria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just you and Bev flying into Honduras, or did you fly over on a chartered plane?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.527942575826794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm sure that we got on it in Peoria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just you and Bev flying into Honduras, or did you fly over on a chartered plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we gathered in Miami, the Peace. Our group reassembled in Miami at the airport on such and such a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was what time of spring?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.919936195363103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just you and Bev flying into Honduras, or did you fly over on a chartered plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we gathered in Miami, the Peace. Our group reassembled in Miami at the airport on such and such a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was what time of spring?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was late summer, early fall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Late summer. Okay. All right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.35548466151456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we gathered in Miami, the Peace. Our group reassembled in Miami at the airport on such and such a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was what time of spring?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was late summer, early fall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Late summer. Okay. All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I suppose it was a chartered plane. I never gave it any thought, but we were all on one plane and we flew to Tegucigalpa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and that's from Miami. That would have been what, four or five flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.950538512793955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was late summer, early fall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Late summer. Okay. All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I suppose it was a chartered plane. I never gave it any thought, but we were all on one plane and we flew to Tegucigalpa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and that's from Miami. That would have been what, four or five flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. No, I don't think so. I don't think it would be that long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. Yeah. And then you get off the plane. And what was that like? Did you remember what it felt like to get off that plane and find yourself in Tegucigalpa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.167265014215506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I suppose it was a chartered plane. I never gave it any thought, but we were all on one plane and we flew to Tegucigalpa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and that's from Miami. That would have been what, four or five flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. No, I don't think so. I don't think it would be that long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. Yeah. And then you get off the plane. And what was that like? Did you remember what it felt like to get off that plane and find yourself in Tegucigalpa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the capital city. There were lots of other volunteers around, people who'd been there while. There were staff. There was, you know, things to do, like be here tomorrow morning at 9:00, kind of organizational stuff. We were all anxious to go to our places where we were. And by then, I think we had an assignment. We knew we were going to go in this place called Goascoran, wherever that was. And no, just kind of a mad whirlwind of keeping everything, not losing anything. And basically, they probably drove us to our site. I'm sure they did. I'm sure that some staff guy put three or four volunteers in kind of a big station wagon and went down the southern highway down toward Nacaome and dropped some people off there, and then went on to Goascoran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned something a little earlier before we turned on the tape recorder about wallets. Your dad giving you 200 bucks? Did you tell that story?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.57512347629013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. My dad had given me 200 bucks cash just to kind of walking around money, which was kind of a lot of money in '66. And I also had a very nice camera. I had gotten a camera and I hadn't really thought too much about security and so forth. But anyway, we stayed at this reputable pension, it was called. It wasn't really a hotel. It was sort of bedrooms off of a couple of patios, maybe a couple of different levels, in Tegucigalpa. And I can remember sort of waking up in the night and thinking, you know, there's some movement or something around here. But it was all so exciting and new to me. I'm sure I didn't get any sleep anyway, but the next morning I noticed that the $200 cash had been taken out of my wallet. Everything else was safe. But, you know, it's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your camera?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was safe. Good. It occurred to me that that would, you know, just be so natural to. You'd have these incoming Americans, all of them with some kind of money, and all you got to do is go take it out of that wallet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there it is, hanging on a nail right by the guy's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In somebody's pocket."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.972359418100144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was safe. Good. It occurred to me that that would, you know, just be so natural to. You'd have these incoming Americans, all of them with some kind of money, and all you got to do is go take it out of that wallet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there it is, hanging on a nail right by the guy's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In somebody's pocket."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that made sense to me afterwards. At the time, I was upset."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I would imagine you were upset. That's kind of a rude welcome to a country. But here you are, a middle class American who's a wealthy man in the eyes of poor Hondurans."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.524843797889048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there it is, hanging on a nail right by the guy's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In somebody's pocket."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that made sense to me afterwards. At the time, I was upset."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I would imagine you were upset. That's kind of a rude welcome to a country. But here you are, a middle class American who's a wealthy man in the eyes of poor Hondurans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you. You're taken in a Peace Corps transport to the town of Goascoran. Tell us, now you know where it is in Honduras. Where in Honduras is that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.811857061576195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was southwest, so to speak. It's near the Pacific Ocean or it's in the lowlands along the Pacific side. A lot of Honduras is in the north side, along the Caribbean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The major ports, San Pedro Sula and Tela and whatever the other ones are. And the cruise ships go to those resort islands up there, Roatan. Anyway. And then Tegucigalpa is in the central part, in the mountainous part. And in the south you have the south, and the Pan American Highway runs through Mexico and through Central America to South America, or at least to the Panama Canal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through that southern plain. And so our village was, actually it was on the river, which is the border with El Salvador. If you looked over the river, that was El Salvador. And a three mile or five kilometer walk down our road got you to the Pan American Highway. And there was a la frontera, the frontier customs, the formal entry on the Pan American Highway for each country, Honduras and El Salvador, was right there. So there was a military installation and all that sort of thing. So anyway we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How close to the ocean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.568730068417994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The major ports, San Pedro Sula and Tela and whatever the other ones are. And the cruise ships go to those resort islands up there, Roatan. Anyway. And then Tegucigalpa is in the central part, in the mountainous part. And in the south you have the south, and the Pan American Highway runs through Mexico and through Central America to South America, or at least to the Panama Canal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through that southern plain. And so our village was, actually it was on the river, which is the border with El Salvador. If you looked over the river, that was El Salvador. And a three mile or five kilometer walk down our road got you to the Pan American Highway. And there was a la frontera, the frontier customs, the formal entry on the Pan American Highway for each country, Honduras and El Salvador, was right there. So there was a military installation and all that sort of thing. So anyway we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How close to the ocean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty far, I would say 50 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So you couldn't walk to the beach."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1874778537977715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through that southern plain. And so our village was, actually it was on the river, which is the border with El Salvador. If you looked over the river, that was El Salvador. And a three mile or five kilometer walk down our road got you to the Pan American Highway. And there was a la frontera, the frontier customs, the formal entry on the Pan American Highway for each country, Honduras and El Salvador, was right there. So there was a military installation and all that sort of thing. So anyway we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How close to the ocean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty far, I would say 50 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So you couldn't walk to the beach."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You couldn't walk to the beach. And there were actually when we did go down there, it wasn't much of a beach. It was just kind of marshy and mangrove-y. And there was some black sand some places. But over in El Salvador at La Union, I'm pretty sure it was called, there was a Pacific beach. And it was a beautiful beach and it was like a two or three hour bus ride from our site. So if we wanted to do that, we'd go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could go for a little R&R."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.874975393108635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty far, I would say 50 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So you couldn't walk to the beach."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You couldn't walk to the beach. And there were actually when we did go down there, it wasn't much of a beach. It was just kind of marshy and mangrove-y. And there was some black sand some places. But over in El Salvador at La Union, I'm pretty sure it was called, there was a Pacific beach. And it was a beautiful beach and it was like a two or three hour bus ride from our site. So if we wanted to do that, we'd go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could go for a little R&R."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, over to El Salvador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So you're taken to Goascoran, and did Peace Corps staff introduce you then to the mayor or people that would be your coworkers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.6388615478984825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You couldn't walk to the beach. And there were actually when we did go down there, it wasn't much of a beach. It was just kind of marshy and mangrove-y. And there was some black sand some places. But over in El Salvador at La Union, I'm pretty sure it was called, there was a Pacific beach. And it was a beautiful beach and it was like a two or three hour bus ride from our site. So if we wanted to do that, we'd go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could go for a little R&R."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, over to El Salvador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So you're taken to Goascoran, and did Peace Corps staff introduce you then to the mayor or people that would be your coworkers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There had been a volunteer there previously, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, there had?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.168534359257178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There had been. And I think that she had left like maybe more than a year, but not much more. But it wasn't like we were right on the heels of that. There had been quite a time gap. But I think most of the people there knew sort of what we were about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think they had kind of made arrangements. They put us in one house that night and it was raining in this and that. And then they decided that that wasn't really where we should be. So they found another house for us, which was the house that we stayed in for the two years. But there, yeah, the priests, the Roman Catholic priests who were French- Canadian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They and they had kind of a clinic there with some nuns. I don't think the nuns actually lived in Goascoran, but they were there often. They were, I think they were part of a welcoming committee with sort of like the mayor and the school teacher and others, kind of welcoming us and trying to find out if we needed anything, if we wanted anything. And it was very soon that we got very comfortably settled in. One story that I like to think of is that we stayed in this first place on these sort of roll away beds. And then somebody said, you know, you shouldn't be down here because the river is right there. And there could be these ladrones, these thieves, that would come across the river and steal your stuff. I don't really know how.\n\nBut anyway, they had found this other room and where we were going to pay a nice rent. And the landlord was a former mayor of the town and he had built this room as part of his house and sort of upgraded it so that it could be a store, a tienda. So it had a nice tile floor, it had real wooden doors on the doors and it had a window opening with bars in it and shutters. It wasn't glass. But it was new. And actually there was a latrine in back and there were, there were no toilets in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say a latrine in back, that's outside?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.829346683824384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe half of those would have been in private homes and the other half were in public squares in different places that were convenient."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd go down there with your bucket and fill it up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, our place had one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And of course, that's why they got it for us, because they know we needed it and we wanted it and we could pay for it. And, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this was not potable water?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.365940759804871, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, our place had one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And of course, that's why they got it for us, because they know we needed it and we wanted it and we could pay for it. And, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this was not potable water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was water that you'd have to purify, boil."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.390050320746753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was water that you'd have to purify, boil."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Otherwise you'd have to send a kid down to the river, you know, with a three gallon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And bring it back. And that's of course, if you look at the pictures, that's what most of the people did most of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They'd get the water from the river."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.988944800829725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Otherwise you'd have to send a kid down to the river, you know, with a three gallon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And bring it back. And that's of course, if you look at the pictures, that's what most of the people did most of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They'd get the water from the river."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, now that it was piped. But I mean away from our town, out in some other place where there wasn't. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so if people didn't have even a latrine, and I was going to ask you where they would go, but describe your latrine. Was it a toilet?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.28264790225892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, now that it was piped. But I mean away from our town, out in some other place where there wasn't. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so if people didn't have even a latrine, and I was going to ask you where they would go, but describe your latrine. Was it a toilet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a pit latrine. It had a wooden box over it. It was a one holer and it was just a pit dug in the ground and on the seat there was a tin can full of lime, calcium or something. White stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when you'd go there was toilet paper, when you'd go you'd sprinkle that in there. And if you are real curious and you wanted to shine your flashlight down in there, you could see what was down in there. But it was private, it was ours, and it was comfortable. It was built in a corner of our backyard. Our yard was an adobe wall on two sides, and it was in that corner. So it was 20 feet away from our back door. And eventually we roofed over that so that you wouldn't even have to get wet going out there if it was raining. But you know, it takes some getting used to, but the alternative was basically to defecate on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you'd go out to a field somewhere."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.5217875336529865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when you'd go there was toilet paper, when you'd go you'd sprinkle that in there. And if you are real curious and you wanted to shine your flashlight down in there, you could see what was down in there. But it was private, it was ours, and it was comfortable. It was built in a corner of our backyard. Our yard was an adobe wall on two sides, and it was in that corner. So it was 20 feet away from our back door. And eventually we roofed over that so that you wouldn't even have to get wet going out there if it was raining. But you know, it takes some getting used to, but the alternative was basically to defecate on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you'd go out to a field somewhere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, or any corner. I mean, you, you know, and that's what 99 percent of the townspeople did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was normal. And it was healthy, so to speak, and routine. There was nothing. And you never saw it. You never were dealing with it. Part of it is the pigs and the chickens. They're roaming everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And they clean, they'd clean it up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.246430592947762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, or any corner. I mean, you, you know, and that's what 99 percent of the townspeople did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was normal. And it was healthy, so to speak, and routine. There was nothing. And you never saw it. You never were dealing with it. Part of it is the pigs and the chickens. They're roaming everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And they clean, they'd clean it up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything. Yeah. When you, like when a baby would have an accident. Boom. Dogs, the pigs, the chickens, and it would be clean as a whistle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Be gone. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.829367325497513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was normal. And it was healthy, so to speak, and routine. There was nothing. And you never saw it. You never were dealing with it. Part of it is the pigs and the chickens. They're roaming everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And they clean, they'd clean it up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything. Yeah. When you, like when a baby would have an accident. Boom. Dogs, the pigs, the chickens, and it would be clean as a whistle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Be gone. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And within, you know, 10 minutes. So that was interesting. And then the electricity, I want to mention, you know, utilities and so forth. There was a light bulb in our room and like a 40 watt light bulb hanging down from wire in the middle of our room. Our room was like 12 by 12, or 15 by 15, something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was your entire living quarters, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.477074806108347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything. Yeah. When you, like when a baby would have an accident. Boom. Dogs, the pigs, the chickens, and it would be clean as a whistle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Be gone. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And within, you know, 10 minutes. So that was interesting. And then the electricity, I want to mention, you know, utilities and so forth. There was a light bulb in our room and like a 40 watt light bulb hanging down from wire in the middle of our room. Our room was like 12 by 12, or 15 by 15, something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was your entire living quarters, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This one room?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.87208475248948, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a back porch and that's actually where the water spigot and the pila, kind of a cement tank thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A sink."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And there'd be a storage thing next to it, because the water would go off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You couldn't always get water out of that spigot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you want to have a supply."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.508746608011704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You couldn't always get water out of that spigot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you want to have a supply."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have like ten gallons in this tank thing. And then the sink and the water. The empty water just went out the back of the spigot there. And that's where you'd planted all your plants and everything and they'd get the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, this electric light bulb. Right behind us, uh, the, there was a private generator owned by kind of an entrepreneur in our town. And I think he supported like, say, 100 light bulbs in town or I don't know how many, but you paid him a monthly subscription and he turned his generator on at 6:00 in the evening and he turned it off at 10:00. And so you had this 40 watt light bulb going during those four hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For 4 hours every evening. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.566353837051485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, this electric light bulb. Right behind us, uh, the, there was a private generator owned by kind of an entrepreneur in our town. And I think he supported like, say, 100 light bulbs in town or I don't know how many, but you paid him a monthly subscription and he turned his generator on at 6:00 in the evening and he turned it off at 10:00. And so you had this 40 watt light bulb going during those four hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For 4 hours every evening. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there were a lot of battery stuff, the radios and flashlights and. And radios I guess really is what I'm thinking about, the battery. But so it was primitive. It was primitive without what you would talk when you would think of water or electricity or plumbing, you know. But our room was dry, it was comfortable, and it was all very civilized. Well, I know the story that I was getting to is when we got, when we moved into this permanent room, we're all standing. It was dark and it seemed like it had been raining. And so we had some mud on our shoes and we had our suitcases and trunks and we're all kind of getting the lay of the land, looking around here. And our landlords, Don Jesus and Dona Blanca, they had like 16 kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some of their older kids had kids. So there were a lot of kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of kids around."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8515042633905394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there were a lot of battery stuff, the radios and flashlights and. And radios I guess really is what I'm thinking about, the battery. But so it was primitive. It was primitive without what you would talk when you would think of water or electricity or plumbing, you know. But our room was dry, it was comfortable, and it was all very civilized. Well, I know the story that I was getting to is when we got, when we moved into this permanent room, we're all standing. It was dark and it seemed like it had been raining. And so we had some mud on our shoes and we had our suitcases and trunks and we're all kind of getting the lay of the land, looking around here. And our landlords, Don Jesus and Dona Blanca, they had like 16 kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some of their older kids had kids. So there were a lot of kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of kids around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think it was China who was about, I'm going to say four or five years old. And of course, we didn't really know her at the time. But anyway, she was in there and we were standing around and I sort of had my back up to the wall and everybody's talking, you know, you can't understand very much and this and that. And I saw this great big, huge spider start to walk up this whitewashed wall right behind me. And I went, ooh! And I moved away from it. You know, it was like, because it was dark and shadowy in there. I move away from it. And China was on the other side, this little four year old girl. And she looked at me and she looked at my eyes and she looked over at that spider and she slapped with her hands, smashed this huge spider. And it was like, China, what bravery! And, you know, so it was a great welcome to that house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A wonderful introduction."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.168338070433933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some of their older kids had kids. So there were a lot of kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of kids around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think it was China who was about, I'm going to say four or five years old. And of course, we didn't really know her at the time. But anyway, she was in there and we were standing around and I sort of had my back up to the wall and everybody's talking, you know, you can't understand very much and this and that. And I saw this great big, huge spider start to walk up this whitewashed wall right behind me. And I went, ooh! And I moved away from it. You know, it was like, because it was dark and shadowy in there. I move away from it. And China was on the other side, this little four year old girl. And she looked at me and she looked at my eyes and she looked over at that spider and she slapped with her hands, smashed this huge spider. And it was like, China, what bravery! And, you know, so it was a great welcome to that house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A wonderful introduction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we got to know China."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So this family with the 16 kids, they were crammed into a very."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.520375633815481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think it was China who was about, I'm going to say four or five years old. And of course, we didn't really know her at the time. But anyway, she was in there and we were standing around and I sort of had my back up to the wall and everybody's talking, you know, you can't understand very much and this and that. And I saw this great big, huge spider start to walk up this whitewashed wall right behind me. And I went, ooh! And I moved away from it. You know, it was like, because it was dark and shadowy in there. I move away from it. And China was on the other side, this little four year old girl. And she looked at me and she looked at my eyes and she looked over at that spider and she slapped with her hands, smashed this huge spider. And it was like, China, what bravery! And, you know, so it was a great welcome to that house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A wonderful introduction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we got to know China."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So this family with the 16 kids, they were crammed into a very."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other two rooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other two rooms of this building. Yeah. Wow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.911528482017201, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we got to know China."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So this family with the 16 kids, they were crammed into a very."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other two rooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other two rooms of this building. Yeah. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what they wanted though. They didn't, they wanted the rental income. They never intended to occupy this fancy space. The other rooms had mud floors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And yours had, yours had a tile floor."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.34614275779689, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other two rooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other two rooms of this building. Yeah. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what they wanted though. They didn't, they wanted the rental income. They never intended to occupy this fancy space. The other rooms had mud floors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And yours had, yours had a tile floor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they didn't even have doors and they didn't, they. I think they might have used the latrine before we got there, but they were not bothered by the fact that they could no longer use that latrine back there in the corner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they didn't have a latrine for themselves?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.961787047732358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There was no other latrine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I will say that, you know, in these adobe houses with a tile roof, you have a center line. It's a peaked roof."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so whether you have gable ends or whatnot, you still have this peaked roof and the tile. So interior walls that divide between spaces do not typically go up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd have a triangular open space at the top."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.624207830813731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I will say that, you know, in these adobe houses with a tile roof, you have a center line. It's a peaked roof."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so whether you have gable ends or whatnot, you still have this peaked roof and the tile. So interior walls that divide between spaces do not typically go up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd have a triangular open space at the top."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Between your living quarters and your neighbors."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.360230923126368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so whether you have gable ends or whatnot, you still have this peaked roof and the tile. So interior walls that divide between spaces do not typically go up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd have a triangular open space at the top."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Between your living quarters and your neighbors."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So that was permanently occupied by little faces. They were always looking over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.178034359029297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Between your living quarters and your neighbors."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So that was permanently occupied by little faces. They were always looking over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we'd go, get down from there! So but that was how our privacy was respected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.864482621143663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So that was permanently occupied by little faces. They were always looking over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we'd go, get down from there! So but that was how our privacy was respected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And hardly any other neighbor kids would, they would let them in there. But those, our friends. They would. They couldn't resist. And you could hear them inside, Dona. Get out, bájate!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the parents telling, the parents telling the kids to get down off the wall. Yeah. What about cooking? Did you cook for yourselves?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1827584679374037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we'd go, get down from there! So but that was how our privacy was respected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And hardly any other neighbor kids would, they would let them in there. But those, our friends. They would. They couldn't resist. And you could hear them inside, Dona. Get out, bájate!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the parents telling, the parents telling the kids to get down off the wall. Yeah. What about cooking? Did you cook for yourselves?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Beverly cooked. I didn't cook, but Beverly cooked. And we'd go out, I guess, a little bit. There were little eateries around there, nothing like a restaurant, but there were places where workmen and others who were away from home could get a meal. And so Beverly cooked. Once a week, there was a butcher that would slaughter. One week he'd slaughter a cow, and the next week he would slaughter a pig. And it was on the town square. And you went down there and you looked around at this meat hanging in his living room and you'd pick out a couple of pounds of it. And, uh, after a while, it might have been six months or I don't know. After some time we bought a used refrigerator. It was a kerosene fired refrigerator, which, you know, sounds crazy. But anyway, if you light a fire in the bottom of a fridge, this kind of special refrigerator, the heat coming off that thing will do certain refrigeration, uh, boiling and condensing and transporting this coolant around through that refrigerator somehow. I still don't know how, but you could have ice in top. It was a little refrigerator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, it was efficient enough to make ice?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.694763540663461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Beverly cooked. I didn't cook, but Beverly cooked. And we'd go out, I guess, a little bit. There were little eateries around there, nothing like a restaurant, but there were places where workmen and others who were away from home could get a meal. And so Beverly cooked. Once a week, there was a butcher that would slaughter. One week he'd slaughter a cow, and the next week he would slaughter a pig. And it was on the town square. And you went down there and you looked around at this meat hanging in his living room and you'd pick out a couple of pounds of it. And, uh, after a while, it might have been six months or I don't know. After some time we bought a used refrigerator. It was a kerosene fired refrigerator, which, you know, sounds crazy. But anyway, if you light a fire in the bottom of a fridge, this kind of special refrigerator, the heat coming off that thing will do certain refrigeration, uh, boiling and condensing and transporting this coolant around through that refrigerator somehow. I still don't know how, but you could have ice in top. It was a little refrigerator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, it was efficient enough to make ice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would make ice. Keep beer cold. Keep meat cold. The downside was that if you put meat in there and then you went away for two days and somehow the wind blew that fire out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would spoil inside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By meat. Yeah. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.326868568720322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would spoil inside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By meat. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it'd be kind of a mess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Smelly and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But for the first several months, you lived without refrigeration?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.109923231079818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Little pieces of wood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they'd stick them in these sort of clay, uh, beautifully made fire pits, and they'd put this big clay, oh, what would you call it? A bowl. But it was a very shallow bowl and then cooked tortillas on it. And they had pots and pans to fry meat and fry rice or to cook rice on this wood fire. But we did it on kerosene. So it worked. But we had, we ate good. There was tomatoes, onions, celery. We had to worry a little bit about, well, we called it douching the vegetables in a very light rinse of some kind of disinfectant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But nothing that would really taste bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was to eat them raw?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.566581367866464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they'd stick them in these sort of clay, uh, beautifully made fire pits, and they'd put this big clay, oh, what would you call it? A bowl. But it was a very shallow bowl and then cooked tortillas on it. And they had pots and pans to fry meat and fry rice or to cook rice on this wood fire. But we did it on kerosene. So it worked. But we had, we ate good. There was tomatoes, onions, celery. We had to worry a little bit about, well, we called it douching the vegetables in a very light rinse of some kind of disinfectant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But nothing that would really taste bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was to eat them raw?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, even if you're. Yeah, I guess so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even if you were going to cook it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.073979297629404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But nothing that would really taste bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was to eat them raw?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, even if you're. Yeah, I guess so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even if you were going to cook it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I guess if you cooked it, you could. But yeah, it seemed like we did that to even to tomatoes that you were going to sauté before rice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. So you had rice?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.498977743681457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably had pasta. Yeah, I think Beverly made spaghetti. At the store, it was a very simple store, but they were like cans of peas and capers and there was ketchup and mustard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Capers, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had capers and a lot of it in these tamales that were just delicious. Oh my gosh. At Christmas time, they made a tamale with a banana leaf wrap, you know, and this corn masa and little pieces of pork and it's delicious. It was just, it's just to die for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So beer. We drank a lot of beer and we had a water filter in there so you could drink some water. But the beer was, you know, seemed safer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to boil the water before you filter?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.221086381868285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had capers and a lot of it in these tamales that were just delicious. Oh my gosh. At Christmas time, they made a tamale with a banana leaf wrap, you know, and this corn masa and little pieces of pork and it's delicious. It was just, it's just to die for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So beer. We drank a lot of beer and we had a water filter in there so you could drink some water. But the beer was, you know, seemed safer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to boil the water before you filter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah. You were supposed to boil the water. You couldn't count on the filter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. How was your health? Did you maintain health?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.816305050573778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lost weight. I probably lost 20 pounds. Ten, 20 pounds. That was normal. I mean, I walked everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, the idea was, or everybody said that the men are going to lose 10 pounds and the women are going to gain 10 pounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And most of that, I think, from this diet of corn tortillas and rice and beans and a little bit of meat and some salad and stuff. So anyway, my health was good. I did have parasites, oh, maybe five times during the two years. And I felt bad. You'd smell bad. Your breath, your farts. You knew that something was wrong. You'd go to Teguc and get a stool sample and they'd identify it, and then they'd give you something and it would go away. And I never had anything that really was invasive or life threatening. I just had an ongoing, inconvenient parasitical problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and you could deal with that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.3514500561930864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, the idea was, or everybody said that the men are going to lose 10 pounds and the women are going to gain 10 pounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And most of that, I think, from this diet of corn tortillas and rice and beans and a little bit of meat and some salad and stuff. So anyway, my health was good. I did have parasites, oh, maybe five times during the two years. And I felt bad. You'd smell bad. Your breath, your farts. You knew that something was wrong. You'd go to Teguc and get a stool sample and they'd identify it, and then they'd give you something and it would go away. And I never had anything that really was invasive or life threatening. I just had an ongoing, inconvenient parasitical problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and you could deal with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you talked about going into Teguc, which is Tegucigalpa, the capital city. How far how far away from the capital city were you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.834944506881207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And most of that, I think, from this diet of corn tortillas and rice and beans and a little bit of meat and some salad and stuff. So anyway, my health was good. I did have parasites, oh, maybe five times during the two years. And I felt bad. You'd smell bad. Your breath, your farts. You knew that something was wrong. You'd go to Teguc and get a stool sample and they'd identify it, and then they'd give you something and it would go away. And I never had anything that really was invasive or life threatening. I just had an ongoing, inconvenient parasitical problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and you could deal with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you talked about going into Teguc, which is Tegucigalpa, the capital city. How far how far away from the capital city were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were pretty far in terms that we were at the end of the line, let's put it that way. But what that meant was if you wanted to go to Teguc, you'd tell somebody, and at 4:00 in the morning, they'd come by the front of your house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just want to look to see how much we've got, how much time we've got. I think we're okay. Continue. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6233882801002557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were pretty far in terms that we were at the end of the line, let's put it that way. But what that meant was if you wanted to go to Teguc, you'd tell somebody, and at 4:00 in the morning, they'd come by the front of your house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just want to look to see how much we've got, how much time we've got. I think we're okay. Continue. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway, you'd, at 4:00 in the morning, you'd get on this little busito, little VW van."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Van."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, mostly. Sometimes it would be a freight truck. It was not a big truck, but it was bigger than a pickup truck where they were, uh. They had room for maybe ten passengers and then a bunch of other stuff. Anyway, you'd climb onto this thing and make this arduous trip from, I think it was four or 5,000 feet up. I guess I should look to see what the elevation was. But it was, the road was constantly climbing for the last two or 3 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Climbing up to Tegucigalpa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.025986977889173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway, you'd, at 4:00 in the morning, you'd get on this little busito, little VW van."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Van."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, mostly. Sometimes it would be a freight truck. It was not a big truck, but it was bigger than a pickup truck where they were, uh. They had room for maybe ten passengers and then a bunch of other stuff. Anyway, you'd climb onto this thing and make this arduous trip from, I think it was four or 5,000 feet up. I guess I should look to see what the elevation was. But it was, the road was constantly climbing for the last two or 3 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Climbing up to Tegucigalpa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because that was in the center of the country."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.970354293690336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because that was in the center of the country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, it was in these mountains."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose it was in a valley. So you went back down at the end, but uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were coming from coastal flat land."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.914017646531278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose it was in a valley. So you went back down at the end, but uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were coming from coastal flat land."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And these tiny little engines, tiny little VW engines straining away. So it was like a five hour trip, four hour trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you go and come back on the same day or did you usually spend the night in Teguc?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.348908496145865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And these tiny little engines, tiny little VW engines straining away. So it was like a five hour trip, four hour trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you go and come back on the same day or did you usually spend the night in Teguc?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we usually spent the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And where, when you got to Tegucigalpa, where would you stay? Was there a Peace Corps hostel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7210094401620717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And these tiny little engines, tiny little VW engines straining away. So it was like a five hour trip, four hour trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you go and come back on the same day or did you usually spend the night in Teguc?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we usually spent the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And where, when you got to Tegucigalpa, where would you stay? Was there a Peace Corps hostel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was one that a lot of Peace Corps volunteers used. There were several. And we each had our own favorite. And we'd go there and usually there was room and we had a room and, you know, it felt good. I think it was Dona Teresa, where the one that we wound up staying the most at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a Peace Corps office there in the capital city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.134454933513413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we usually spent the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And where, when you got to Tegucigalpa, where would you stay? Was there a Peace Corps hostel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was one that a lot of Peace Corps volunteers used. There were several. And we each had our own favorite. And we'd go there and usually there was room and we had a room and, you know, it felt good. I think it was Dona Teresa, where the one that we wound up staying the most at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a Peace Corps office there in the capital city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps doctors?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7585863376708804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps doctors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The whole Peace Corps staff was there. And, you know, we were supposed to give, I think, monthly reports and we were supposed to write things and send them things. And they'd have programs. Okay, all the southern volunteers are going to meet at this place for this weekend, and we're going to study. Some of the projects that I got into were organizing a credit union, sort of crop improvements, an agricultural project, and school construction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And each one had a certain arrangement and profile. The school program was courting, CARE, and the deal was that if you could organize a community to build four adobe walls with window openings, and so over just four adobe walls, which was a fairly easy thing for a community to do. No big engineering. No, not expensive. They could build a school building. Well, I could get money to buy the material for the roof, for the doors and windows, and for a cement floor to be poured in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you supposed to get the money to do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0650959307454224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The whole Peace Corps staff was there. And, you know, we were supposed to give, I think, monthly reports and we were supposed to write things and send them things. And they'd have programs. Okay, all the southern volunteers are going to meet at this place for this weekend, and we're going to study. Some of the projects that I got into were organizing a credit union, sort of crop improvements, an agricultural project, and school construction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And each one had a certain arrangement and profile. The school program was courting, CARE, and the deal was that if you could organize a community to build four adobe walls with window openings, and so over just four adobe walls, which was a fairly easy thing for a community to do. No big engineering. No, not expensive. They could build a school building. Well, I could get money to buy the material for the roof, for the doors and windows, and for a cement floor to be poured in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you supposed to get the money to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "CARE."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, through CARE. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4056621452726916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And each one had a certain arrangement and profile. The school program was courting, CARE, and the deal was that if you could organize a community to build four adobe walls with window openings, and so over just four adobe walls, which was a fairly easy thing for a community to do. No big engineering. No, not expensive. They could build a school building. Well, I could get money to buy the material for the roof, for the doors and windows, and for a cement floor to be poured in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you supposed to get the money to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "CARE."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, through CARE. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was like this program and, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just had to apply?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.784069050302991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "CARE."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, through CARE. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was like this program and, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just had to apply?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And you'd say, well, I've got, they did it out in such and such. Nacino. And so then we'd go into town, go to Teguc, get the money from CARE, go round to the stores, buy this stuff, try to figure out how to get it out there, and then go back out there and tell them it's coming on such and such a day. And you need to have a work crew here because we're going to have the lumber and so on and so forth. You're going to have to put it up. And they were all very excited once, uh, if this community would get a school, then the central government would assign a teacher to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, fine. Okay. But they had to provide the building for it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.204521167003323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was like this program and, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just had to apply?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And you'd say, well, I've got, they did it out in such and such. Nacino. And so then we'd go into town, go to Teguc, get the money from CARE, go round to the stores, buy this stuff, try to figure out how to get it out there, and then go back out there and tell them it's coming on such and such a day. And you need to have a work crew here because we're going to have the lumber and so on and so forth. You're going to have to put it up. And they were all very excited once, uh, if this community would get a school, then the central government would assign a teacher to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, fine. Okay. But they had to provide the building for it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had to build it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this wasn't within the town of Goascoran, it was an outlying village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1423413893602308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ten, 15 miles away. 20 miles away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, if it was only five miles, the kids could walk in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To go to school in Goascoran. There was no need to build another one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But beyond that, they needed their own school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.879433814024976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To go to school in Goascoran. There was no need to build another one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But beyond that, they needed their own school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They'd have to come in and board, have family or friends or pay money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's expensive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so they'd rather have the school out there. Plus, the schoolteacher was, you know, part of the economic improvement of that. Here's another salary. Here's somebody that wants to buy things and stuff. So it was a, it was good to have a school building in your community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. So you were responding to an expressed need of that little village. They had said what we need here is a school. And then you were, you were there to help make that happen."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.310482015583307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They'd have to come in and board, have family or friends or pay money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's expensive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so they'd rather have the school out there. Plus, the schoolteacher was, you know, part of the economic improvement of that. Here's another salary. Here's somebody that wants to buy things and stuff. So it was a, it was good to have a school building in your community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. So you were responding to an expressed need of that little village. They had said what we need here is a school. And then you were, you were there to help make that happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. They knew about the program. They couldn't, they didn't know how to access it. I suppose they could have, but that's what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you find out that that would be one of your roles?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3215827352880325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. They knew about the program. They couldn't, they didn't know how to access it. I suppose they could have, but that's what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you find out that that would be one of your roles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd be out there just walking around saying, you know, you guys want a school, we can do a school. And they'd say, what do you mean? Blah, blah, blah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the other, like I mentioned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who put that into your head to ask that question? Did Peace Corps suggest that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9128697058755915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd be out there just walking around saying, you know, you guys want a school, we can do a school. And they'd say, what do you mean? Blah, blah, blah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the other, like I mentioned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who put that into your head to ask that question? Did Peace Corps suggest that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That this is one of the things you can do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.569855228750657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the other, like I mentioned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who put that into your head to ask that question? Did Peace Corps suggest that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That this is one of the things you can do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You were trained after you got to Honduras in that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 7.2998391430562855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That this is one of the things you can do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You were trained after you got to Honduras in that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We were told about it, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8393075840201063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We were told about it, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other was a UN, a United Nations program for Food and Agricultural Organization, F-A-O, FAO. And for that, at the Peace Corps headquarters in Tegucigalpa you'd talk to somebody and they'd say, okay, we'll get you one of these. It was a crop demonstration kit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a box. And inside the box there would be like three kinds of corn seeds, three kinds of fertilizer, and three kinds of insecticide. So you'd go out and you'd find a farmer, hopefully with a plot that was on a path or a road or the corner. Something that was visible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where people could see this, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8947977832923266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And you'd say, hey, look, if you'll plant these, plant these three rows this way, you know, plant these sections."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the other way we're going to do these fertilizer, insecticide, and, uh, whatever the other thing was. Herbicide? Fertilizer? Anyway, the idea was one half of this thing would grow up big and tall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the other half would be all stunted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of puny, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.224132133130666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly just putting a hole in the ground with a long stick. Some of the other guys had like oxen and they'd drag a simple plow through and do all that. But the point is, is that they had their seed corn and beans and so forth left over from the year before, and it was free and they'd go and plant it and they'd have a crop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we'd say, oh, that stuff, you know, we can get you better seed and we can get you better fertilizer and this and that, but you're going to have to pay for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so now this guy is making an investment of $200."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And can he use that, the seed from that improved crop for the following year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.804591259034073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we'd say, oh, that stuff, you know, we can get you better seed and we can get you better fertilizer and this and that, but you're going to have to pay for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so now this guy is making an investment of $200."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And can he use that, the seed from that improved crop for the following year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or did he have to keep buying it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.353035004387887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a, it's an economic deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we used to sit around and kind of theorize. But anyway, that was the food. And then the last was. This one, the credit union organization was really. I couldn't see any flaws to it, couldn't see any obvious problems. An outfit in Madison, Wisconsin, a Credit Union International [Association], CUNA, put together a Spanish language credit union promotional package. And there were books. There were like ledger books and accounting books. There were little pass books. There was all these like instructions in Spanish. So you'd get that thing. And we'd, we went to the priests, this time we got the priests involved. They were happy to be involved. They were great men, these French-Canadian priests and, uh. So. And the way we promoted it, it was kind of fun. I would get these, like two-reel movies. Cantinflas, this Mexican comedian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These are movies like out of the thirties and forties, black and white, and a generator and a projector. And get somebody with a wagon. We'd take that thing way out in the middle of nowhere and set it up, put the generator behind the hill and hang up a sheet and have a movie. And that was some, you know, people, they all knew what movies were. They'd all been to Tegucigalpa and seen movies, but nobody had had a movie there. And so that was fun. And so then you'd talk to them about the credit union and all the advantages, and you're going to bring this stuff out on such and such a date. You're going to have this training thing and the priests are involved and everything. It's going to be fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was, what was the role of the priests? Were they the ones who would keep the money so that people would trust them not to rip them off?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.231872434002588, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, but it was also just sort of credibility and to get everybody involved. You know, you're basically trying to establish a branch bank in this remote area. These people do have some money they need to save and they could certainly use loans. Since then, these micro lien, loan things have become a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What they do in India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in 1966, that concept of microloans probably didn't exist."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.92430270444732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What they do in India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in 1966, that concept of microloans probably didn't exist."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never heard of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this was sort of like that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.693669671608133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What they do in India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in 1966, that concept of microloans probably didn't exist."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never heard of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this was sort of like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People could get the capital they needed to get something started."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.54852185734237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never heard of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this was sort of like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People could get the capital they needed to get something started."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By borrowing it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.4983576192693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People could get the capital they needed to get something started."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By borrowing it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And this American credit union thing had it all figured out, and they had a package. And so you just, you know, it took some time and you had to promote it and talk about it. But you'd have these meetings and these guys, they understood. They knew what in the city, their cousins and their relatives used banks and borrowed money to build houses and run businesses. And they wanted to do it too. So we did. We organized a credit union. Uh. And so, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say we, who's the we? Who was working with you on organizing? I know about the priests, but who else was involved in getting this set up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.998175132521444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By borrowing it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And this American credit union thing had it all figured out, and they had a package. And so you just, you know, it took some time and you had to promote it and talk about it. But you'd have these meetings and these guys, they understood. They knew what in the city, their cousins and their relatives used banks and borrowed money to build houses and run businesses. And they wanted to do it too. So we did. We organized a credit union. Uh. And so, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say we, who's the we? Who was working with you on organizing? I know about the priests, but who else was involved in getting this set up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember specifically, but I think it would be the town leaders. David Carcamo lived across the street from me. He was a businessman and a store owner. He was older. You know, I was like 21, 22. He was probably 40. But he wanted to, uh, there were, there were businessmen types around. My landlord, Jesus, who had been a mayor of the town. He was a liberal. Liberal. And they kind of traded him back and forth between the liberal and the conservative parties. They'd trade these political positions of mayor and this and that. Well, he had a truck. He owned the truck. There were like maybe three trucks in town. And Don Jesus owned one of the trucks, La Rapida. You know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The fast one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.170586583359808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember specifically, but I think it would be the town leaders. David Carcamo lived across the street from me. He was a businessman and a store owner. He was older. You know, I was like 21, 22. He was probably 40. But he wanted to, uh, there were, there were businessmen types around. My landlord, Jesus, who had been a mayor of the town. He was a liberal. Liberal. And they kind of traded him back and forth between the liberal and the conservative parties. They'd trade these political positions of mayor and this and that. Well, he had a truck. He owned the truck. There were like maybe three trucks in town. And Don Jesus owned one of the trucks, La Rapida. You know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The fast one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, you know, two or three times a week he was going in to Tegucigalpa because on the way you'd pick people up and you'd pick up cargo, you'd pick up a sack of beans, load of chickens, and they'd sell it in Tegucigalpa and then come home. And he was the freight hauler for all that. Two or three times a week, he would do that. So, you know, he maintained that truck, he got gas for it and this and that. And I'm sure it wasn't the first truck he ever owned. So he was involved. The usual suspects, everybody, everybody participated. And we'd have the meetings in the schools and stuff. But it worked. They actually, we actually organized a credit union."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who kept the money in? Was there a building for it or was it in the parish house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the priest did. But, you know, it was sort of on paper and in pass books and stuff. I think they might have taken the money like into Tegucigalpa and really put it in the bank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And was there some capital that was given from somebody initially to get that started? Or did you have to start with what people invested when they trusted you with their own money?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.449942561872016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once we had it going and we had meetings and they had books and they could, you could kind of see that it was probably, nobody was going to just steal it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then you'd trust it and you'd put your little bit of money in there. You didn't have much money. You know, people are living, these rural families with that subsistence farming. They had a great standard of living. I don't want to suggest that they're starving or they were culturally deprived. It was fine, but it was not cash intensive. They didn't have cash. Buying oil, batteries, things that they couldn't make."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Buying a generator. You need cash."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.611047290968907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then you'd trust it and you'd put your little bit of money in there. You didn't have much money. You know, people are living, these rural families with that subsistence farming. They had a great standard of living. I don't want to suggest that they're starving or they were culturally deprived. It was fine, but it was not cash intensive. They didn't have cash. Buying oil, batteries, things that they couldn't make."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Buying a generator. You need cash."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, um, did you get any support from Peace Corps? Did you get advice, help? Did people from Tegucigalpa, Peace Corps staff, come out to visit you and see how you were doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.678941434409897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Buying a generator. You need cash."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, um, did you get any support from Peace Corps? Did you get advice, help? Did people from Tegucigalpa, Peace Corps staff, come out to visit you and see how you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much, but that wasn't a problem. We had, we had friends, other Peace Corps volunteers that lived in nearby communities, Bill and Ed. They had their own projects. I was interested in watching them do their projects. They had that housing project in Nacaome, and that took up a lot of time and energy to kind of watch that thing. And we all talked about what we were doing and, and uh, but no, the staff didn't really come out. You'd talk to them in Teguc about what you're doing, what you need, which things you need, and they'd like get that. The doctors were helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask if the doctor came out to visit you and give you shots or something."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.64326826045544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, um, did you get any support from Peace Corps? Did you get advice, help? Did people from Tegucigalpa, Peace Corps staff, come out to visit you and see how you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much, but that wasn't a problem. We had, we had friends, other Peace Corps volunteers that lived in nearby communities, Bill and Ed. They had their own projects. I was interested in watching them do their projects. They had that housing project in Nacaome, and that took up a lot of time and energy to kind of watch that thing. And we all talked about what we were doing and, and uh, but no, the staff didn't really come out. You'd talk to them in Teguc about what you're doing, what you need, which things you need, and they'd like get that. The doctors were helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask if the doctor came out to visit you and give you shots or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think his name was Peter. Beverly remembers the doctor, but he didn't really come out for, but just to visit us and support. We were near the Pan Am Highway. We were some of the most accessible volunteers in Honduras. We were not in a, when I say we were in a remote location, we were, it was primitive and it was remote. But it was also a stone's throw from the Pan Am Highway, which was a main thoroughfare for Central America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whereas other people might have been, I don't know, much more isolated."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.856335062353141, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, could get there by Jeep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And maybe once a week you'd have some car come in and it was remote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One bit of evidence about how accessible we were is this visit from my parents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that. Your parents came when? When in your two years there did your parents come down?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.546412979908284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It must have been, you know, it was after a while. And I don't remember much of the planning, but my parents had been Airstream aficionados."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is 1966 or '67."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I bet they got their first Airstream in the mid fifties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, when you were a kid."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.94045886656476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is 1966 or '67."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I bet they got their first Airstream in the mid fifties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, when you were a kid."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you remember it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.822732073960847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I bet they got their first Airstream in the mid fifties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, when you were a kid."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you remember it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. We went camping and traveling in that Airstream. And my parents, like, when I went, I started high school in '58. Well, after that, in the summer time, they'd go to Canada. And, uh, and they upgraded their Airstreams. They'd started with tiny little one and after a couple of years they'd get big. And they went on these Wally Byam caravans. That's the whole Airstream kind of thing. Well, I'm pretty sure by the time that they got to visit us, they had like a big four door Cadillac and I'm going to say a 24 foot Airstream."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which they pulled behind the car?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:517", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.546582807359068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. We went camping and traveling in that Airstream. And my parents, like, when I went, I started high school in '58. Well, after that, in the summer time, they'd go to Canada. And, uh, and they upgraded their Airstreams. They'd started with tiny little one and after a couple of years they'd get big. And they went on these Wally Byam caravans. That's the whole Airstream kind of thing. Well, I'm pretty sure by the time that they got to visit us, they had like a big four door Cadillac and I'm going to say a 24 foot Airstream."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which they pulled behind the car?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They drove from Peoria down through Mexico and through Guatemala and El Salvador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they actually drove up. Our the road to the Pan Am was dirt and it wasn't very wide. It wasn't paved. But anyway, they drove on it because that's kind of the Airstream thing, you know, it's self-contained and it's the suspension and so forth. So they pulled it up in front of our house on that little cobblestone street. You know, it was quite the sensation in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can only imagine."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.385092008176741, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They drove from Peoria down through Mexico and through Guatemala and El Salvador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they actually drove up. Our the road to the Pan Am was dirt and it wasn't very wide. It wasn't paved. But anyway, they drove on it because that's kind of the Airstream thing, you know, it's self-contained and it's the suspension and so forth. So they pulled it up in front of our house on that little cobblestone street. You know, it was quite the sensation in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can only imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Look at what the Hanlons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew they were coming, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.316768897974157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they actually drove up. Our the road to the Pan Am was dirt and it wasn't very wide. It wasn't paved. But anyway, they drove on it because that's kind of the Airstream thing, you know, it's self-contained and it's the suspension and so forth. So they pulled it up in front of our house on that little cobblestone street. You know, it was quite the sensation in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can only imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Look at what the Hanlons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew they were coming, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you communicate with your folks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.557982027399394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A letter mostly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could get a telephone call, but it was complicated. Crank phone. You had to make announcements and it was letter, so we were just expecting them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They hung around for a day or two. We introduced them to everybody and walked them all around and showed them everything about Goascoran, and then Bev and I got in it for a two week odyssey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The four of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.034545712838757, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They hung around for a day or two. We introduced them to everybody and walked them all around and showed them everything about Goascoran, and then Bev and I got in it for a two week odyssey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The four of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four of us. You know, it's about the size of here, from here to that wall. That's 20 feet away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we were intimate, to say the least, and uh. But we had a great time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:533", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.816161903154175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four of us. You know, it's about the size of here, from here to that wall. That's 20 feet away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we were intimate, to say the least, and uh. But we had a great time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went up into the Yucatan. We went back, you know, through Guatemala, and then we went north out of Guatemala into the Yucatan. I think we went to Merida, which is, you know, the northern part of the Yucatan and then back and in two weeks. And then they dropped us off. And we had a lot of adventures. I could talk for hours about some of the great adventures, but then they drove back to the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what stories they had to tell."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.684624336837972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we were intimate, to say the least, and uh. But we had a great time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went up into the Yucatan. We went back, you know, through Guatemala, and then we went north out of Guatemala into the Yucatan. I think we went to Merida, which is, you know, the northern part of the Yucatan and then back and in two weeks. And then they dropped us off. And we had a lot of adventures. I could talk for hours about some of the great adventures, but then they drove back to the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what stories they had to tell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you kept in touch with your family writing letters. You had each other to talk to, but there wasn't any other Peace Corps volunteer in town."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.649582596486635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went up into the Yucatan. We went back, you know, through Guatemala, and then we went north out of Guatemala into the Yucatan. I think we went to Merida, which is, you know, the northern part of the Yucatan and then back and in two weeks. And then they dropped us off. And we had a lot of adventures. I could talk for hours about some of the great adventures, but then they drove back to the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what stories they had to tell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you kept in touch with your family writing letters. You had each other to talk to, but there wasn't any other Peace Corps volunteer in town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often would you get together with other volunteers? You mentioned Jim and Ed. They were nearby, but in different towns."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.888373575909427, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often would you get together with other volunteers? You mentioned Jim and Ed. They were nearby, but in different towns."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our closest American friends were in Nacaome. Nacaome. And that's like maybe a half hour away. And you could walk down to the Pan Am, stand at the intersection, and within a half an hour you could get a ride for money, didn't have to have to hitchhike or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There'd be cars going back and forth, and it would take like maybe a half an hour to get to Nacaome. You'd, and they'd probably take you right into town. And so, and so we could go down there and. In Nacaome, there was Ed. He lived there. Bill and Marianne O'Hara. And there might have been some other people during those two years that I'm kind of forgetting, who spent a lot of time in Nacaome. At one point, Howie. Howie Knox was there because they did a housing project. I've shown you those slides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those guys were architects."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.565893303591885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There'd be cars going back and forth, and it would take like maybe a half an hour to get to Nacaome. You'd, and they'd probably take you right into town. And so, and so we could go down there and. In Nacaome, there was Ed. He lived there. Bill and Marianne O'Hara. And there might have been some other people during those two years that I'm kind of forgetting, who spent a lot of time in Nacaome. At one point, Howie. Howie Knox was there because they did a housing project. I've shown you those slides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those guys were architects."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Howie Knox was an architect. And Jim Piker. Jim wasn't really stationed there I don't think. I think he had, he lived in Tegucigalpa, but he would spend time down there. Him and Howie, especially, could come down, because they made a special design for a single family house that was supposed to be, you know, very progressive but very economical. And I could talk about that house for hours, about all the things that they thought about putting into it and everything, how it was going to be an improvement over the traditional adobe house. Or even an improvement over the traditional tiled enclosure that would have four main corner posts, but then be filled in with twigs and leaves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Without any windows and maybe not even a door. But it would keep the rain out, and it kept most of the wind out. That's the, the upgrade that was an adobe house. But anyway, so they, they thought up this thing and they got funding for it somehow and they built it. And it was, it was magnificent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you and Bev would be able to go down and lift a few beers with them from time to time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:547", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.96210367065765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Howie Knox was an architect. And Jim Piker. Jim wasn't really stationed there I don't think. I think he had, he lived in Tegucigalpa, but he would spend time down there. Him and Howie, especially, could come down, because they made a special design for a single family house that was supposed to be, you know, very progressive but very economical. And I could talk about that house for hours, about all the things that they thought about putting into it and everything, how it was going to be an improvement over the traditional adobe house. Or even an improvement over the traditional tiled enclosure that would have four main corner posts, but then be filled in with twigs and leaves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Without any windows and maybe not even a door. But it would keep the rain out, and it kept most of the wind out. That's the, the upgrade that was an adobe house. But anyway, so they, they thought up this thing and they got funding for it somehow and they built it. And it was, it was magnificent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you and Bev would be able to go down and lift a few beers with them from time to time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.402337411841833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Without any windows and maybe not even a door. But it would keep the rain out, and it kept most of the wind out. That's the, the upgrade that was an adobe house. But anyway, so they, they thought up this thing and they got funding for it somehow and they built it. And it was, it was magnificent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you and Bev would be able to go down and lift a few beers with them from time to time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they'd come over, when they got bored, they could come over our way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And visit you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:553", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9658486565948547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they'd come over, when they got bored, they could come over our way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And visit you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Ed, uh, he, I think that eventually he finagled some kind of a job. Maybe it was with the federal, with the credit union, federación de credit union. He had a jeep. And so he could pile two or three people in there and come over to our place. And if he had something to do down at the border, he could come get us, take us back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and then we had good friends in Tegucigalpa and there was ice cream in Tegucigalpa. And there was movies in Tegucigalpa. There were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often would you get into Tegucigalpa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:555", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2953873962165052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Ed, uh, he, I think that eventually he finagled some kind of a job. Maybe it was with the federal, with the credit union, federación de credit union. He had a jeep. And so he could pile two or three people in there and come over to our place. And if he had something to do down at the border, he could come get us, take us back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and then we had good friends in Tegucigalpa and there was ice cream in Tegucigalpa. And there was movies in Tegucigalpa. There were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often would you get into Tegucigalpa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would think once a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:559", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.068379501501858, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would think once a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe once every two months. Frequently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was what you did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it would keep you sane knowing that it was there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.5204216683353975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe once every two months. Frequently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was what you did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it would keep you sane knowing that it was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What about friendships with Honduran people? Did you manage to socialize at all with Hondurans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:563", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.022690742594886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was what you did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it would keep you sane knowing that it was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What about friendships with Honduran people? Did you manage to socialize at all with Hondurans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we sure did. Yeah. I haven't talked about Bev at all. Bev had this great project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that's okay, Bev. Bev will have her own interview."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:565", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.580767491772095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What about friendships with Honduran people? Did you manage to socialize at all with Hondurans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we sure did. Yeah. I haven't talked about Bev at all. Bev had this great project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that's okay, Bev. Bev will have her own interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but part of it is that her project. We were friends with some of her coworkers, so part of our socializing there had to do with, was kind of through her. The men that I worked with and in some of these remote locations, we didn't socialize with them too much. I didn't develop any big, strong friendships, but Beverly did. I tagged along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you get to be part of that scene."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:567", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.200852768635661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we sure did. Yeah. I haven't talked about Bev at all. Bev had this great project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that's okay, Bev. Bev will have her own interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but part of it is that her project. We were friends with some of her coworkers, so part of our socializing there had to do with, was kind of through her. The men that I worked with and in some of these remote locations, we didn't socialize with them too much. I didn't develop any big, strong friendships, but Beverly did. I tagged along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you get to be part of that scene."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another thing I did, or we both did, was we taught English in the high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.134228763560578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a year or two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an evening class, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe it was an adult thing. It was, you know, here's an American. He speaks English. We've got to use them somehow. So they kind of enlisted that and got it going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's terrific. So your parents came what, about halfway into your time there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.807689831556269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe it was an adult thing. It was, you know, here's an American. He speaks English. We've got to use them somehow. So they kind of enlisted that and got it going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's terrific. So your parents came what, about halfway into your time there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. I think it was more like three-fourths or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were almost done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel towards the end of your time that you were more efficient or whatever, that you were beginning to accomplish things in a way that you hadn't when you first arrived?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:579", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.78632203506252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. I think it was more like three-fourths or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were almost done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel towards the end of your time that you were more efficient or whatever, that you were beginning to accomplish things in a way that you hadn't when you first arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yes, but I really remember sort of a sense of boredom. And this is over, you know? I've got to move on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So two years was about the right amount of time. Yeah. So your two years is eventually up. What was the goodbye scene like? You're about to leave Goascoran."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:581", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.762580038958355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were almost done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel towards the end of your time that you were more efficient or whatever, that you were beginning to accomplish things in a way that you hadn't when you first arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yes, but I really remember sort of a sense of boredom. And this is over, you know? I've got to move on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So two years was about the right amount of time. Yeah. So your two years is eventually up. What was the goodbye scene like? You're about to leave Goascoran."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The, I think the way I think about it is that our group still had another month or two to go. But because I was going to go to law school, there was a beginning date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:593", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.811461740735763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And stayed there for a couple of days. And then we caught a bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we went through some coastal parts of the Yucatan. Then we went to Merida. And we stayed there for like maybe a week, maybe longer, and looked around at all the Mayan ruins and the old town. And then we flew from there to New Orleans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we took another bus, like a Greyhound bus, from New Orleans to Peoria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps give you money for transportation home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:595", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.568290823039736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we went through some coastal parts of the Yucatan. Then we went to Merida. And we stayed there for like maybe a week, maybe longer, and looked around at all the Mayan ruins and the old town. And then we flew from there to New Orleans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we took another bus, like a Greyhound bus, from New Orleans to Peoria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps give you money for transportation home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A readjustment allowance?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:597", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.298100914488596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we took another bus, like a Greyhound bus, from New Orleans to Peoria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps give you money for transportation home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A readjustment allowance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, something like that. You know, the financial thing was $75 per month per person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. That was set aside for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:599", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.997889904987328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A readjustment allowance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, something like that. You know, the financial thing was $75 per month per person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. That was set aside for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that in a minute. That was our salary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your living allowance. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:601", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6643221166525874, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, something like that. You know, the financial thing was $75 per month per person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. That was set aside for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that in a minute. That was our salary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your living allowance. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we had $150 a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the two of you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:603", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.404802351836208, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that in a minute. That was our salary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your living allowance. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we had $150 a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the two of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and that was a lot of money in Goascoran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were able to live on less."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:607", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.141731298563219, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and that was a lot of money in Goascoran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were able to live on less."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was a lot of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rent, beer, you know, electricity, gifts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, you had to pay your own rent out of that money to the landlord?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:611", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.483618887115084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rent, beer, you know, electricity, gifts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, you had to pay your own rent out of that money to the landlord?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. But I think that was like maybe $20 a month. $15 a month. We had plenty of money to, and we could go into Tegucigalpa. We went on that vacation with my parents and I doubt if they helped us much. We, uh, so that was all. Then, concurrently with that, Peace Corps was saving the same amount for departure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when we left, 150 times 12, that's 1,800, times 2. $3,600 bucks. We had like almost $4,000."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and that back in 1966, that was more than it is now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:615", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.658788749524795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when we left, 150 times 12, that's 1,800, times 2. $3,600 bucks. We had like almost $4,000."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and that back in 1966, that was more than it is now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good. So we could like budget our going home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And sort of getting set up in, a little time in Peoria, and then getting an apartment in Chicago and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. You had money for, uh, what do they call that? Security deposit on an apartment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:617", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.287543055027549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good. So we could like budget our going home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And sort of getting set up in, a little time in Peoria, and then getting an apartment in Chicago and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. You had money for, uh, what do they call that? Security deposit on an apartment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you went to, uh, you lived in Chicago and Hyde Park. You went to law school at U of C."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:621", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.317954388922901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you went to, uh, you lived in Chicago and Hyde Park. You went to law school at U of C."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Student housing. You know, Beverly was pregnant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was another deferment. As we ended that, started another one. There was a pregnancy. That was good. Sarah was born in January, so, you know, when we were going home in September. Something that we weren't aware of was all the politics of the '68 convention."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Chicago. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:625", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.861672085090001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was another deferment. As we ended that, started another one. There was a pregnancy. That was good. Sarah was born in January, so, you know, when we were going home in September. Something that we weren't aware of was all the politics of the '68 convention."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Chicago. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I, you know, I don't. I don't know when I stopped listening to the radio or stopped reading my Newsweek. For a while, it was, I was into, I could, but by then I didn't know anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, you know, we got there and it was a hotbed of lots of things, but I couldn't comprehend it really. Beverly quickly got a job as a clerk typist or something in the administration building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of University of Chicago?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:627", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1796356501000007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I, you know, I don't. I don't know when I stopped listening to the radio or stopped reading my Newsweek. For a while, it was, I was into, I could, but by then I didn't know anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, you know, we got there and it was a hotbed of lots of things, but I couldn't comprehend it really. Beverly quickly got a job as a clerk typist or something in the administration building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of University of Chicago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And that was nearby the law school. And I went over there and got my books, you know, and I'm studying. And there were a couple of other Peace Corps guys that were in my class and we all, you know, kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You find each other, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:633", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8787869000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Got together. And it was a small class, I think 150 people. And in '68, the entering class, I believe it was 70 or 80 percent men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's that old fashioned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, nowadays it's half and half or I don't know. Very quickly, it became that. Maybe in those three years. It might be that the freshman class was, you know, a lot of. But anyway, my point is, is that there are lots of happening, things happening. And Beverly, within a couple of weeks of the start of her job, was locked out. The students took over the administration and for, I don't know, a week. And, you know, they were camping out in there and they were protesting and they were doing all this stuff. We're trying to figure out what's going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to continue your studies as a lawyer in law school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:635", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0875410000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's that old fashioned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, nowadays it's half and half or I don't know. Very quickly, it became that. Maybe in those three years. It might be that the freshman class was, you know, a lot of. But anyway, my point is, is that there are lots of happening, things happening. And Beverly, within a couple of weeks of the start of her job, was locked out. The students took over the administration and for, I don't know, a week. And, you know, they were camping out in there and they were protesting and they were doing all this stuff. We're trying to figure out what's going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to continue your studies as a lawyer in law school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During all that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:637", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.31949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, nowadays it's half and half or I don't know. Very quickly, it became that. Maybe in those three years. It might be that the freshman class was, you know, a lot of. But anyway, my point is, is that there are lots of happening, things happening. And Beverly, within a couple of weeks of the start of her job, was locked out. The students took over the administration and for, I don't know, a week. And, you know, they were camping out in there and they were protesting and they were doing all this stuff. We're trying to figure out what's going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to continue your studies as a lawyer in law school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During all that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the administration building was locked down, but the classes went on."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:639", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During all that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the administration building was locked down, but the classes went on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The college or the university, it had to be a half mile. I don't know where it was, but it had nothing to do with the law school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We could do a whole interview just on being in Chicago in 1968."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:641", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the administration building was locked down, but the classes went on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The college or the university, it had to be a half mile. I don't know where it was, but it had nothing to do with the law school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We could do a whole interview just on being in Chicago in 1968."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But we've got about, um, four or 5 minutes in which to finish up the rest of your life. You were a kid who was, what, 23 or so when you came out of Peace Corps, and you are now, what, 70 or something?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00006:643", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The college or the university, it had to be a half mile. I don't know where it was, but it had nothing to do with the law school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We could do a whole interview just on being in Chicago in 1968."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But we've got about, um, four or 5 minutes in which to finish up the rest of your life. You were a kid who was, what, 23 or so when you came out of Peace Corps, and you are now, what, 70 or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, 71."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the intervening years, you've worked as a lawyer. Has, uh, and you've done other things as well. Do you think there's any, there was any effect of your experience in the Peace Corps on either the work that you did or on your view of the world?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 87.96973207788307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I had become familiar with Gerry’s Air Force career as we dated, and I was prepared to be a part of it. I’m not a women’s organization joiner, but I did join the officers’ wives’ club because it was expected of me. Women’s organizations are usually filled with more minutiae than I care to get buried in.\\n\\n I always had my own world. I would rather knock a wall down or repaint the house. I love rebuilding things, refinishing furniture, or doing the yard work. That’s just the way I am. I like working hard physically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Keeps you healthy too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but my body is rejecting me, in my old age. I’ve worn it out, but it’s okay. I wouldn’t have had it any other way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doing what you wanted. That sounds like you were still using that architect background."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, very active physically. Oh, man, I didn’t want to be in your book club or bridge club! Oh, please, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you stay at that Air Force base in California?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 34, "return_to_go": 88.85525786431451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but my body is rejecting me, in my old age. I’ve worn it out, but it’s okay. I wouldn’t have had it any other way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doing what you wanted. That sounds like you were still using that architect background."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, very active physically. Oh, man, I didn’t want to be in your book club or bridge club! Oh, please, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you stay at that Air Force base in California?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gerry signed up for an extra period in order to get that good assignment, so we were there almost four years, which was absolutely fantastic. His first real pilot assigned to him was Bill [William A.] Anders. Valerie [Anders] and I were a part of the Air Force wives at the same time. Bill had already been in for a while, because he had graduated from the Naval Academy. Our shared lives with the Anders started long before our NAS years. Gerry had said back then, “Someday Bill is going to do something really big.” So when he got to be an astronaut he said, “Maybe that’s it.” However, it didn’t stop there, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You lived in California for a while, and at one point you moved to Fort Worth in ’62."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.440874900344635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shortly after we got there, they built the little movie house in Clear Lake City. It was over on the main street, whatever that was. I can’t remember the name of the street."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The theater was on El Camino Real. I think it’s a Chinese restaurant now or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it. I never ever went. My next-door neighbor Mary Nell Pettitt did, but she spent most of her time at Gulfgate, the shopping center back toward Houston. I seldom went down there. I shopped at Mr. Penn’s, a small department store in League City. I stayed close to home. I hate shopping anyway. Penn’s had things I needed anyway – Levi’s Jeans, Boy Scout uniforms, and supplies. We had a movie in Clear Lake City, but no grocery store. I spent a lot of time in the hardware store in League City, because I was a den mother. It was attached to the grocery store. I would go to the grocery store and park Gwen on the end of the conveyor belt with the groceries. She loved it. It was a simple but good life, and I can’t complain about a thing. We didn’t see Gerry a lot, but everyplace we’ve lived Gerry has been totally occupied with his task and his challenge, and we were always in a support role. The same was true in Washington [D.C.]. We probably saw less of him when we lived in Virginia. He left before daylight and didn’t get home till after dark."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a boat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always had a boat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you use it much? Or did you have time as a family to go out in that boat when you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.156527667049595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it. I never ever went. My next-door neighbor Mary Nell Pettitt did, but she spent most of her time at Gulfgate, the shopping center back toward Houston. I seldom went down there. I shopped at Mr. Penn’s, a small department store in League City. I stayed close to home. I hate shopping anyway. Penn’s had things I needed anyway – Levi’s Jeans, Boy Scout uniforms, and supplies. We had a movie in Clear Lake City, but no grocery store. I spent a lot of time in the hardware store in League City, because I was a den mother. It was attached to the grocery store. I would go to the grocery store and park Gwen on the end of the conveyor belt with the groceries. She loved it. It was a simple but good life, and I can’t complain about a thing. We didn’t see Gerry a lot, but everyplace we’ve lived Gerry has been totally occupied with his task and his challenge, and we were always in a support role. The same was true in Washington [D.C.]. We probably saw less of him when we lived in Virginia. He left before daylight and didn’t get home till after dark."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a boat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always had a boat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you use it much? Or did you have time as a family to go out in that boat when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. We’d load up and go water-skiing or just out for a boat ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go out in the bay or did you stay in the lakes there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 30.173919630055106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always had a boat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you use it much? Or did you have time as a family to go out in that boat when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. We’d load up and go water-skiing or just out for a boat ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go out in the bay or did you stay in the lakes there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was a little ski boat. We stayed in Clear Lake mostly. We had a sailboat which we sometimes sailed in the Nassau Bay Lake. We did a little of everything on the water. It was convenient and we could do a lot in a very little time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When he had time off you mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 32.415466255616785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. We’d load up and go water-skiing or just out for a boat ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go out in the bay or did you stay in the lakes there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was a little ski boat. We stayed in Clear Lake mostly. We had a sailboat which we sometimes sailed in the Nassau Bay Lake. We did a little of everything on the water. It was convenient and we could do a lot in a very little time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When he had time off you mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we could squeeze water skiing or a short sail in most any day we could find an hour or two. That was one of the nice things about living where we did. When we had “time off” we camped. Sometimes with our family only. Everybody was in the same boat. We all had little time and little money, so we all camped together. We had a pickup truck, and originally we put a mattress in the back. We later bought a pop-top tent trailer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go camping?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.017184728463093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was a little ski boat. We stayed in Clear Lake mostly. We had a sailboat which we sometimes sailed in the Nassau Bay Lake. We did a little of everything on the water. It was convenient and we could do a lot in a very little time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When he had time off you mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we could squeeze water skiing or a short sail in most any day we could find an hour or two. That was one of the nice things about living where we did. When we had “time off” we camped. Sometimes with our family only. Everybody was in the same boat. We all had little time and little money, so we all camped together. We had a pickup truck, and originally we put a mattress in the back. We later bought a pop-top tent trailer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go camping?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back early on our family-favorite place to camp was Dam B up in East Texas. When we came back as Center Director, we went to Lake Livingston, also in East Texas, several times, with people like John [W.] and Cheryl Aaron. We water-skied, and we fished trotlines. We didn’t do serious fishing. We caught catfish, had group fish fry’s, water-skied, and enjoyed the company. We did take several family vacations with brother Larry and his family to National Parks in Colorado and Montana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go into Houston much during those early years?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.90798303162566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we could squeeze water skiing or a short sail in most any day we could find an hour or two. That was one of the nice things about living where we did. When we had “time off” we camped. Sometimes with our family only. Everybody was in the same boat. We all had little time and little money, so we all camped together. We had a pickup truck, and originally we put a mattress in the back. We later bought a pop-top tent trailer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go camping?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back early on our family-favorite place to camp was Dam B up in East Texas. When we came back as Center Director, we went to Lake Livingston, also in East Texas, several times, with people like John [W.] and Cheryl Aaron. We water-skied, and we fished trotlines. We didn’t do serious fishing. We caught catfish, had group fish fry’s, water-skied, and enjoyed the company. We did take several family vacations with brother Larry and his family to National Parks in Colorado and Montana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go into Houston much during those early years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost never. We did have an occasional official event in town, but Gerry and I preferred to do home, boat, and car projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you didn’t go to Gulfgate, so I wondered if you went anywhere in Houston."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.89775892402851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back early on our family-favorite place to camp was Dam B up in East Texas. When we came back as Center Director, we went to Lake Livingston, also in East Texas, several times, with people like John [W.] and Cheryl Aaron. We water-skied, and we fished trotlines. We didn’t do serious fishing. We caught catfish, had group fish fry’s, water-skied, and enjoyed the company. We did take several family vacations with brother Larry and his family to National Parks in Colorado and Montana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go into Houston much during those early years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost never. We did have an occasional official event in town, but Gerry and I preferred to do home, boat, and car projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you didn’t go to Gulfgate, so I wondered if you went anywhere in Houston."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I did take the kids to the Houston Zoo, the circus, and Peppermint Park [Kiddieland]. Some things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Galveston? Did you ever go to the beaches and do any water things in Galveston?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.21973213780945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost never. We did have an occasional official event in town, but Gerry and I preferred to do home, boat, and car projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you didn’t go to Gulfgate, so I wondered if you went anywhere in Houston."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I did take the kids to the Houston Zoo, the circus, and Peppermint Park [Kiddieland]. Some things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Galveston? Did you ever go to the beaches and do any water things in Galveston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took the kids a few times, but neither Gerry nor I are beach people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Stuck to the lakes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.91081348645494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I did take the kids to the Houston Zoo, the circus, and Peppermint Park [Kiddieland]. Some things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Galveston? Did you ever go to the beaches and do any water things in Galveston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took the kids a few times, but neither Gerry nor I are beach people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Stuck to the lakes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, stuck to the lakes. Beaches are sandy and gritty. I don’t really like sand and saltwater. Besides, I’m a hill country person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you like that clear river water, don’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 41.012014984949936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took the kids a few times, but neither Gerry nor I are beach people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Stuck to the lakes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, stuck to the lakes. Beaches are sandy and gritty. I don’t really like sand and saltwater. Besides, I’m a hill country person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you like that clear river water, don’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like the clear river water, that’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that. Did you ever get a chance to do things maybe without the kids? Did you have childcare options early on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 43.34668331661104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, stuck to the lakes. Beaches are sandy and gritty. I don’t really like sand and saltwater. Besides, I’m a hill country person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you like that clear river water, don’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like the clear river water, that’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that. Did you ever get a chance to do things maybe without the kids? Did you have childcare options early on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just babysitters. We went to splashdown parties and an occasional dinner out, but not much else. I used to say, “Oh, just take me to downtown Houston and check me into a hotel just one night.” But we never did. We didn’t really have time. I would load the kids up and come up here [Kerrville, Texas] to visit my mom. Sometimes Gerry came with us but usually we came without him. I didn’t require that he be with me. I could come up here by myself, and I enjoyed driving. I was pretty independent.\\n\\n We did make a ski trip and an elk hunting trip without the kids. Both times we traded sitting chores with Ellie and Arnie [[Arnold D.] Aldrich."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know we’ve read, and some of the astronaut wives we’ve talked to, they had an informal get-together every once in a while, as wives. I know you mentioned you weren’t a joiner for women’s clubs. But did the mission control wives do anything similar?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.702090226670853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it took the world over. It overwhelmed those communities. Webster fought it for years. Webster didn’t want us there. They finally have embraced the whole thing, it was interesting to watch it happen. The NASA/Clear Lake community was being created.\\n\\n The vortex created “the community.” In effect the community didn’t exist. There were little communities, but they were totally individual. Seabrook and Kemah and those along the water were fishing communities. I don’t know what Webster was, it was just this little town between Houston and Galveston. It had an elementary and middle school, a post office, a fire station, a couple of churches, and a few businesses.\\n\\n I don’t know, but I think most of us just ignored the people that lived in Webster. They probably hated us, because they were losing their community as they knew it. It didn’t make any difference whether they hated us or not, we were there, and their world was changing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the schools that were available and how quickly they grew? Where did the kids go to school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Webster. The schools already were good, and they have remained good, there’s no question. The Clear Creek school system cannot be beat. It’s grown beautifully with the community. Early school systems around the area carried this incredible load dumped in the laps.\\n\\n That whole community is just impressive from beginning to end. In fact my grandson and his family have just moved down south of League City, and I think it’s the smartest thing they’ve ever done. Their world is very much like our world was, and that doesn’t happen very often. Particularly in Houston. I think it’s great. The school system is incredible. They can’t find a bad school in that whole area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was planned well, as you said, early on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Extremely well. The school system was well managed very early on, I don’t know who was running it, but somebody knew what they were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is an interesting area. Especially at JSC we have a lot of wildlife still on site."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.668989140745392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Webster. The schools already were good, and they have remained good, there’s no question. The Clear Creek school system cannot be beat. It’s grown beautifully with the community. Early school systems around the area carried this incredible load dumped in the laps.\\n\\n That whole community is just impressive from beginning to end. In fact my grandson and his family have just moved down south of League City, and I think it’s the smartest thing they’ve ever done. Their world is very much like our world was, and that doesn’t happen very often. Particularly in Houston. I think it’s great. The school system is incredible. They can’t find a bad school in that whole area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was planned well, as you said, early on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Extremely well. The school system was well managed very early on, I don’t know who was running it, but somebody knew what they were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is an interesting area. Especially at JSC we have a lot of wildlife still on site."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In some of the communities though, when it was first building up, there was a lot of wildlife. There were deer, there were wild hogs, there were all kinds of things."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.74332126749488, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Extremely well. The school system was well managed very early on, I don’t know who was running it, but somebody knew what they were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is an interesting area. Especially at JSC we have a lot of wildlife still on site."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In some of the communities though, when it was first building up, there was a lot of wildlife. There were deer, there were wild hogs, there were all kinds of things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still are, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In some of them there are, but it has built up so much. Do you remember any of that kind of thing when the kids were little?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.937023630549866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In some of the communities though, when it was first building up, there was a lot of wildlife. There were deer, there were wild hogs, there were all kinds of things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still are, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In some of them there are, but it has built up so much. Do you remember any of that kind of thing when the kids were little?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure, mostly the giant mosquitoes that picked up my kids and carried them off. The fogging trucks that my kids rode their bicycles right behind spraying DDT [Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane, used as insecticide] that seemed not to affect my kids at all. No. I have no regrets.\\n\\n The wildlife, there are still wild hogs down there I’m sure. We never did see any, but of course they were there. Deer everywhere, and critters of all kinds, but mostly mosquitoes. The wildlife was never a problem to living in the area. The hard part was controlling the mosquito issue, but again smart people have made it livable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It’s still an issue."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.263359589499851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still are, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In some of them there are, but it has built up so much. Do you remember any of that kind of thing when the kids were little?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure, mostly the giant mosquitoes that picked up my kids and carried them off. The fogging trucks that my kids rode their bicycles right behind spraying DDT [Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane, used as insecticide] that seemed not to affect my kids at all. No. I have no regrets.\\n\\n The wildlife, there are still wild hogs down there I’m sure. We never did see any, but of course they were there. Deer everywhere, and critters of all kinds, but mostly mosquitoes. The wildlife was never a problem to living in the area. The hard part was controlling the mosquito issue, but again smart people have made it livable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It’s still an issue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, of course it is. But the wildlife, it still exists no matter what. I think that adds to the quality of life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know a lot of the neighborhoods, especially the ones that had astronauts living in them, had tour buses come through, and the press, the public interest. Was that in your neighborhood too?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.625955099444278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure, mostly the giant mosquitoes that picked up my kids and carried them off. The fogging trucks that my kids rode their bicycles right behind spraying DDT [Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane, used as insecticide] that seemed not to affect my kids at all. No. I have no regrets.\\n\\n The wildlife, there are still wild hogs down there I’m sure. We never did see any, but of course they were there. Deer everywhere, and critters of all kinds, but mostly mosquitoes. The wildlife was never a problem to living in the area. The hard part was controlling the mosquito issue, but again smart people have made it livable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It’s still an issue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, of course it is. But the wildlife, it still exists no matter what. I think that adds to the quality of life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know a lot of the neighborhoods, especially the ones that had astronauts living in them, had tour buses come through, and the press, the public interest. Was that in your neighborhood too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in our particular block, because we didn’t have any astronauts, but in Nassau Bay it certainly was a problem. It was a pain in the neck. It limited where you could go during a mission because the paparazzi was there. It’s just like it is anywhere. Yes, it impacted all the neighborhoods. It’s like I said, we went to St. Martin’s Episcopal Church except when the president was there for the same reason. You couldn’t even get close to the place when the president was in town. It was the same kind of thing. I didn’t envy the astronaut families at all, I felt sorry for them because they couldn’t escape. I was glad that the world ignored us actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about belonging to that officers’ wives’ club because it was expected of you. Was there anything expected once Gerry became a flight director?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.139950110493642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, of course it is. But the wildlife, it still exists no matter what. I think that adds to the quality of life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know a lot of the neighborhoods, especially the ones that had astronauts living in them, had tour buses come through, and the press, the public interest. Was that in your neighborhood too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in our particular block, because we didn’t have any astronauts, but in Nassau Bay it certainly was a problem. It was a pain in the neck. It limited where you could go during a mission because the paparazzi was there. It’s just like it is anywhere. Yes, it impacted all the neighborhoods. It’s like I said, we went to St. Martin’s Episcopal Church except when the president was there for the same reason. You couldn’t even get close to the place when the president was in town. It was the same kind of thing. I didn’t envy the astronaut families at all, I felt sorry for them because they couldn’t escape. I was glad that the world ignored us actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about belonging to that officers’ wives’ club because it was expected of you. Was there anything expected once Gerry became a flight director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There wasn’t anything social that you were responsible for?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.711055678326268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in our particular block, because we didn’t have any astronauts, but in Nassau Bay it certainly was a problem. It was a pain in the neck. It limited where you could go during a mission because the paparazzi was there. It’s just like it is anywhere. Yes, it impacted all the neighborhoods. It’s like I said, we went to St. Martin’s Episcopal Church except when the president was there for the same reason. You couldn’t even get close to the place when the president was in town. It was the same kind of thing. I didn’t envy the astronaut families at all, I felt sorry for them because they couldn’t escape. I was glad that the world ignored us actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about belonging to that officers’ wives’ club because it was expected of you. Was there anything expected once Gerry became a flight director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There wasn’t anything social that you were responsible for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just don’t get a ticket on base (the Center). Don’t do anything on base to get in trouble. Gerry told me the same thing when we got married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During a break, we were talking about Helen Garriott. Now that we’re back on, maybe you can just talk about the canoe that she built, and maybe some of the other things you had in common with her."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 15.234506309251408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There wasn’t anything social that you were responsible for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just don’t get a ticket on base (the Center). Don’t do anything on base to get in trouble. Gerry told me the same thing when we got married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During a break, we were talking about Helen Garriott. Now that we’re back on, maybe you can just talk about the canoe that she built, and maybe some of the other things you had in common with her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got to know Helen Garriott because she was a Cub Scout leader at the same time I was, and she has a son. We had that in common, but she did all kinds of things. I was in awe of her. She did ceramics, and at the time made Moon Pots. She called them funny little saggy pots. I have one that I just absolutely love, and it has the landing sites and things marked on it with rhinestones. But she’s the only person I’ve ever known that built a canoe from scratch, literally, with wooden stays and covered with canvas and painted green. I was always in awe of Helen. Amazing lady, and fine artist actually, but could do anything.\\n\\n She sent a robot to her son’s wedding. He got married in Europe and she sent a robot with her picture glued to the main body of it so that the people could literally talk to her live. An amazing lady."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking just a few minutes ago that you got golf lessons from your husband around 1970."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.283045738837686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes and no, I think. We were probably more aware than the guys of what was going on in the rest of the world. We were watching the news every day, more so than the guys because they didn’t have time to sit and watch the news. There was great unrest, but we were also involved in what our husbands were doing. We just went through that time. In fact Gerry’s twin brother was in Vietnam, and Gerry was prepared at the drop of a hat to go to Vietnam if brother Larry had been missing or something. He would have packed and gone, which I thought would have been stupid, but he would have done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a twin thing I’m sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the twin thing. But Larry got home just fine, and we had a big party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that was stressful, knowing his brother was there, and then still having to concentrate so hard on what he was doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think he thought much about it. It was just a matter of fact. I did all the correspondence. I drew cartoons. Larry would write to us and then I would draw a cartoon of whatever he had written about that time and send it back to him. He has a whole collection of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice. You just kept him informed of what was going on with the family?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.092273043152984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the twin thing. But Larry got home just fine, and we had a big party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that was stressful, knowing his brother was there, and then still having to concentrate so hard on what he was doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think he thought much about it. It was just a matter of fact. I did all the correspondence. I drew cartoons. Larry would write to us and then I would draw a cartoon of whatever he had written about that time and send it back to him. He has a whole collection of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice. You just kept him informed of what was going on with the family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Gerry maybe wrote him once. I don’t remember. I did all of the letter writing. As I said, I would draw a cartoon and return it to him to give him something to smile about. His family, they moved to Clear Lake to live near us. Gerry became the surrogate father. In fact Larry’s daughter was born while he was in Vietnam, and Gerry is her other daddy. He took Judy to the hospital, during the middle of some flight probably. We had so much going on, and Gerry still played golf too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Found some time to relax every once in a while."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.991414492392204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think he thought much about it. It was just a matter of fact. I did all the correspondence. I drew cartoons. Larry would write to us and then I would draw a cartoon of whatever he had written about that time and send it back to him. He has a whole collection of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice. You just kept him informed of what was going on with the family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Gerry maybe wrote him once. I don’t remember. I did all of the letter writing. As I said, I would draw a cartoon and return it to him to give him something to smile about. His family, they moved to Clear Lake to live near us. Gerry became the surrogate father. In fact Larry’s daughter was born while he was in Vietnam, and Gerry is her other daddy. He took Judy to the hospital, during the middle of some flight probably. We had so much going on, and Gerry still played golf too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Found some time to relax every once in a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just on and on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In listening to you and some of the other wives we talked to, women traditionally are the heart of the family, the ones that keep things going, and as you mentioned doing the correspondence for him because he was busy with his brother and doing different things. Before we started, we talked about how important it was that you were able to do that, because if the wives weren’t doing that, then their husbands wouldn’t have been able to concentrate on what they were doing, and how important to the mission that contribution that you made was and how you feel about that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.99046054710245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Gerry maybe wrote him once. I don’t remember. I did all of the letter writing. As I said, I would draw a cartoon and return it to him to give him something to smile about. His family, they moved to Clear Lake to live near us. Gerry became the surrogate father. In fact Larry’s daughter was born while he was in Vietnam, and Gerry is her other daddy. He took Judy to the hospital, during the middle of some flight probably. We had so much going on, and Gerry still played golf too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Found some time to relax every once in a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just on and on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In listening to you and some of the other wives we talked to, women traditionally are the heart of the family, the ones that keep things going, and as you mentioned doing the correspondence for him because he was busy with his brother and doing different things. Before we started, we talked about how important it was that you were able to do that, because if the wives weren’t doing that, then their husbands wouldn’t have been able to concentrate on what they were doing, and how important to the mission that contribution that you made was and how you feel about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t think about it at the time, but yes, absolutely, I do now. I’m proud of me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With good reason, because it’s important to keep things running."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.100511719002721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just on and on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In listening to you and some of the other wives we talked to, women traditionally are the heart of the family, the ones that keep things going, and as you mentioned doing the correspondence for him because he was busy with his brother and doing different things. Before we started, we talked about how important it was that you were able to do that, because if the wives weren’t doing that, then their husbands wouldn’t have been able to concentrate on what they were doing, and how important to the mission that contribution that you made was and how you feel about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t think about it at the time, but yes, absolutely, I do now. I’m proud of me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With good reason, because it’s important to keep things running."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I was capable of doing that. I really was not very tolerant of women who were not willing or didn’t think they were able to stand up and take care of things. I am not very patient with them, I wasn’t then and still aren’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not all the marriages survived, unfortunately."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.333901910003023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t think about it at the time, but yes, absolutely, I do now. I’m proud of me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With good reason, because it’s important to keep things running."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I was capable of doing that. I really was not very tolerant of women who were not willing or didn’t think they were able to stand up and take care of things. I am not very patient with them, I wasn’t then and still aren’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not all the marriages survived, unfortunately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. In fact a lot of astronaut marriages failed. It was definitely a stressful time. A lot of women expected more of their marriages than I think marriages should be expected to provide. You make your own happiness. Your partner doesn’t make your happiness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Apollo came along, he was a flight director. I think it was after the Apollo 1 fire, during that time he went into flight director training instead of doing the GNC [Guidance and Navigation Control] work. That was a different, and I imagine added stress to what he was doing. Could you just talk about some of those missions, like Apollo 8? Do you have any memories of that mission, or watching that on television, since it was on Christmas Eve?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.593224344447803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I was capable of doing that. I really was not very tolerant of women who were not willing or didn’t think they were able to stand up and take care of things. I am not very patient with them, I wasn’t then and still aren’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not all the marriages survived, unfortunately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. In fact a lot of astronaut marriages failed. It was definitely a stressful time. A lot of women expected more of their marriages than I think marriages should be expected to provide. You make your own happiness. Your partner doesn’t make your happiness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Apollo came along, he was a flight director. I think it was after the Apollo 1 fire, during that time he went into flight director training instead of doing the GNC [Guidance and Navigation Control] work. That was a different, and I imagine added stress to what he was doing. Could you just talk about some of those missions, like Apollo 8? Do you have any memories of that mission, or watching that on television, since it was on Christmas Eve?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, it was fantastic. Man had left the influence of the Earth. I agree with Gerry. I think that was probably the most monumental, because we stepped out there. That’s amazing. That was the first big step, leaving the Earth, period. Fantastic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was stressful, I would imagine."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.992471493830891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. In fact a lot of astronaut marriages failed. It was definitely a stressful time. A lot of women expected more of their marriages than I think marriages should be expected to provide. You make your own happiness. Your partner doesn’t make your happiness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Apollo came along, he was a flight director. I think it was after the Apollo 1 fire, during that time he went into flight director training instead of doing the GNC [Guidance and Navigation Control] work. That was a different, and I imagine added stress to what he was doing. Could you just talk about some of those missions, like Apollo 8? Do you have any memories of that mission, or watching that on television, since it was on Christmas Eve?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, it was fantastic. Man had left the influence of the Earth. I agree with Gerry. I think that was probably the most monumental, because we stepped out there. That’s amazing. That was the first big step, leaving the Earth, period. Fantastic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was stressful, I would imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I wasn’t aware of the great stress. I don’t think Gerry was either. Gerry likes being out on the end of the diving board, he still does. That’s what he liked when I met him, and that’s just the way our life has been; I never think about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember that Christmas Eve? Were you at home with your family, or were you with other people during that time watching it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.54719054870099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, it was fantastic. Man had left the influence of the Earth. I agree with Gerry. I think that was probably the most monumental, because we stepped out there. That’s amazing. That was the first big step, leaving the Earth, period. Fantastic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was stressful, I would imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I wasn’t aware of the great stress. I don’t think Gerry was either. Gerry likes being out on the end of the diving board, he still does. That’s what he liked when I met him, and that’s just the way our life has been; I never think about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember that Christmas Eve? Were you at home with your family, or were you with other people during that time watching it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were probably in Houston because Gerry never was anywhere except in the control center. I’m sure we were there. My mother very likely was there with us. I don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Apollo 11? What are your memories of that mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.16354505411221, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I wasn’t aware of the great stress. I don’t think Gerry was either. Gerry likes being out on the end of the diving board, he still does. That’s what he liked when I met him, and that’s just the way our life has been; I never think about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember that Christmas Eve? Were you at home with your family, or were you with other people during that time watching it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were probably in Houston because Gerry never was anywhere except in the control center. I’m sure we were there. My mother very likely was there with us. I don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Apollo 11? What are your memories of that mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just like all the others, fantastic. The world was watching, and I was aware that the world was watching. I was also aware that it was not just us, it was the world that went to the Moon. I felt that then, still do, it wasn’t just the USA, the world went to the Moon. Everybody in the world was watching, guarantee you, and I knew it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned before you weren’t as aware of how important what they were doing was until later. Was that one of your first times that you started being aware of that importance?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.959494504569122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were probably in Houston because Gerry never was anywhere except in the control center. I’m sure we were there. My mother very likely was there with us. I don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Apollo 11? What are your memories of that mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just like all the others, fantastic. The world was watching, and I was aware that the world was watching. I was also aware that it was not just us, it was the world that went to the Moon. I felt that then, still do, it wasn’t just the USA, the world went to the Moon. Everybody in the world was watching, guarantee you, and I knew it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned before you weren’t as aware of how important what they were doing was until later. Was that one of your first times that you started being aware of that importance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, probably, but I didn’t dwell on anything. Just go to the next page. Just turn the page."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any of the splashdown parties after that mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.399438338410135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just like all the others, fantastic. The world was watching, and I was aware that the world was watching. I was also aware that it was not just us, it was the world that went to the Moon. I felt that then, still do, it wasn’t just the USA, the world went to the Moon. Everybody in the world was watching, guarantee you, and I knew it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned before you weren’t as aware of how important what they were doing was until later. Was that one of your first times that you started being aware of that importance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, probably, but I didn’t dwell on anything. Just go to the next page. Just turn the page."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any of the splashdown parties after that mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh God, yes. I didn’t last very long at that one, I was home early. Yes, the parties were always at the hotels all around us. One thing I really enjoyed, Jim [James L.] Hartz had become one of our very best friends. Jim Hartz was NBC. Ended up later being the [NBC] Today show host. Big-time. He hung out at our house all the time. At the Nassau Bay Hotel, the NBC News thing [booth] was a little doodad on the top, and he spent most of his free time at our house shooting horse [basketball game] with our little boy and eating burgers with us and stuff like that, picking Gerry’s brain, trying to learn all he could about engineering. Crash course in engineering. He’s still a good friend. It was fun having Jim Hartz, who was an important NBC news guy hang out at my house. That was always fun. I loved doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember where you were when you were watching them walk on the Moon for the first time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.999375931566817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, probably, but I didn’t dwell on anything. Just go to the next page. Just turn the page."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any of the splashdown parties after that mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh God, yes. I didn’t last very long at that one, I was home early. Yes, the parties were always at the hotels all around us. One thing I really enjoyed, Jim [James L.] Hartz had become one of our very best friends. Jim Hartz was NBC. Ended up later being the [NBC] Today show host. Big-time. He hung out at our house all the time. At the Nassau Bay Hotel, the NBC News thing [booth] was a little doodad on the top, and he spent most of his free time at our house shooting horse [basketball game] with our little boy and eating burgers with us and stuff like that, picking Gerry’s brain, trying to learn all he could about engineering. Crash course in engineering. He’s still a good friend. It was fun having Jim Hartz, who was an important NBC news guy hang out at my house. That was always fun. I loved doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember where you were when you were watching them walk on the Moon for the first time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my house in Nassau Bay. Always home. Always in front of my very own TV, because Gerry was always over at the control center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think Apollo 12 was the first lead flight director mission for him."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.752315964897306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my house in Nassau Bay. Always home. Always in front of my very own TV, because Gerry was always over at the control center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think Apollo 12 was the first lead flight director mission for him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was his first one, and boy, he was excited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He was going to be on the end of the diving board for sure, and he was. Lightning struck. His voice got very high. You could hear it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the communication loops."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.947017738774782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was his first one, and boy, he was excited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He was going to be on the end of the diving board for sure, and he was. Lightning struck. His voice got very high. You could hear it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the communication loops."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can hear it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It was an interesting mission. Apollo 13, you mentioned that you had to chase him down because he was playing softball somewhere when that happened. Did you see him much after that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.274464154194202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He was going to be on the end of the diving board for sure, and he was. Lightning struck. His voice got very high. You could hear it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the communication loops."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can hear it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It was an interesting mission. Apollo 13, you mentioned that you had to chase him down because he was playing softball somewhere when that happened. Did you see him much after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. He was gone. Actually during a lot of the missions we didn’t see him at all, because I had little people [at home]. Kirk was getting older, and he wasn’t a problem. But I had a little one, and Gerry was having to sleep quite often during the daytime, so he often stayed over on site. The control center had sleeping quarters. It had no windows, was cold, dark, and quiet, so he stayed over there. He would come home, shower, get clean underwear and clothes, and then go back. That was fine, because I had my world that had to happen on a regular schedule. Kids had to get to school, normal things still had to happen, doctors’ appointments, and other stuff.\\n\\n One thing about it, I didn’t have to worry about feeding him, which is still fine when he’s gone. I don’t have to worry about feeding him. It’s always easier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s something you became accustomed to after all the years."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.52718239354911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can hear it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It was an interesting mission. Apollo 13, you mentioned that you had to chase him down because he was playing softball somewhere when that happened. Did you see him much after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. He was gone. Actually during a lot of the missions we didn’t see him at all, because I had little people [at home]. Kirk was getting older, and he wasn’t a problem. But I had a little one, and Gerry was having to sleep quite often during the daytime, so he often stayed over on site. The control center had sleeping quarters. It had no windows, was cold, dark, and quiet, so he stayed over there. He would come home, shower, get clean underwear and clothes, and then go back. That was fine, because I had my world that had to happen on a regular schedule. Kids had to get to school, normal things still had to happen, doctors’ appointments, and other stuff.\\n\\n One thing about it, I didn’t have to worry about feeding him, which is still fine when he’s gone. I don’t have to worry about feeding him. It’s always easier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s something you became accustomed to after all the years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. After a week or so I’m ready for him to come home, but I never ever minded him being gone for short periods. It happened from day one, because when we were at Hamilton he sat on alert. They had live weapons on their airplanes, and when they were on alert he was out at the alert hangar, so very early on I had a husband that was gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since he was in mission control, I probably already know the answer to this, but did you ever have a chance to see any launches or landings?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.3422004858631, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. After a week or so I’m ready for him to come home, but I never ever minded him being gone for short periods. It happened from day one, because when we were at Hamilton he sat on alert. They had live weapons on their airplanes, and when they were on alert he was out at the alert hangar, so very early on I had a husband that was gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since he was in mission control, I probably already know the answer to this, but did you ever have a chance to see any launches or landings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not until we went elsewhere. Some of the people, when they weren’t on an active flight, did go down and watch launches. Gerry said they didn’t pay him to go stand around and be a spectator. They paid him to be in mission control. He never left mission control during the entire Apollo Program, he didn’t see a flight of any kind until we got to Washington, and me either. Couldn’t afford it. NASA wasn’t going to pay to send me to the Cape. I never could even get into mission control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You never got in to see anything."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.158000539847887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not until we went elsewhere. Some of the people, when they weren’t on an active flight, did go down and watch launches. Gerry said they didn’t pay him to go stand around and be a spectator. They paid him to be in mission control. He never left mission control during the entire Apollo Program, he didn’t see a flight of any kind until we got to Washington, and me either. Couldn’t afford it. NASA wasn’t going to pay to send me to the Cape. I never could even get into mission control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You never got in to see anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The viewing room, or any part of it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.286667266497652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You never got in to see anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The viewing room, or any part of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not until later. We didn’t have access to anything. I loved it when he was the Center Director. I had access to everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine. He did move on, and I think ’73 is when he moved to [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, D.C.]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.762963629441835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The viewing room, or any part of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not until later. We didn’t have access to anything. I loved it when he was the Center Director. I had access to everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine. He did move on, and I think ’73 is when he moved to [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, D.C.]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You took the kids and went with him at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 38.62551514382426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not until later. We didn’t have access to anything. I loved it when he was the Center Director. I had access to everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine. He did move on, and I think ’73 is when he moved to [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, D.C.]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You took the kids and went with him at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, kids were still in school. He got that assignment before the end of school, and I didn’t even go up and house-hunt with him. Didn’t have time and couldn’t afford it for one thing. NASA would pay for one trip to house-hunt, but there was always extenuating circumstances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With kids in school."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 40.505281426343934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, I put it on the market. We got twice as much for it as we paid for it, which was amazing. However, it cost us twice as much as we made on the Nassau Bay house to get a house in Vienna."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Cost of living is a higher there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was definitely a shock. We never ever got ahead. Everyplace we lived cost us more. Same was true in California. When Gerry was at Dryden, we lived in Lancaster, California. When he was at Kennedy [Space Center, (KSC) Florida], we lived in Satellite Beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You lived in different communities. You went to Vienna and then after that out to Dryden and then Kennedy and then back to Headquarters at some point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I never did go back to Headquarters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t go back when he went?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 31.672534918159926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was definitely a shock. We never ever got ahead. Everyplace we lived cost us more. Same was true in California. When Gerry was at Dryden, we lived in Lancaster, California. When he was at Kennedy [Space Center, (KSC) Florida], we lived in Satellite Beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You lived in different communities. You went to Vienna and then after that out to Dryden and then Kennedy and then back to Headquarters at some point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I never did go back to Headquarters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t go back when he went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I stayed in Florida, and Gerry commuted. He was Deputy Director of KSC on Monday and Friday, and at NASA Headquarters in DC as Associate Administrator for External Relations on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday for close to two years. It was Gwen’s junior and senior years in high school. She was the head cheer leader and also taking college classes at Brevard Community College. I was playing a lot of golf and also acting as secretary for the first ever men’s senior PGA tournament event ever held at our country club, Suntree, in Melbourne, Florida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just talk maybe just for a second, because you had to live in different communities. Especially at Dryden and then again in Kennedy, were you in communities similar to what you were down here as far as NASA people living in the area? Or were you in more separate areas?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 32.96948324239992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I never did go back to Headquarters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t go back when he went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I stayed in Florida, and Gerry commuted. He was Deputy Director of KSC on Monday and Friday, and at NASA Headquarters in DC as Associate Administrator for External Relations on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday for close to two years. It was Gwen’s junior and senior years in high school. She was the head cheer leader and also taking college classes at Brevard Community College. I was playing a lot of golf and also acting as secretary for the first ever men’s senior PGA tournament event ever held at our country club, Suntree, in Melbourne, Florida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just talk maybe just for a second, because you had to live in different communities. Especially at Dryden and then again in Kennedy, were you in communities similar to what you were down here as far as NASA people living in the area? Or were you in more separate areas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we never were in a NASA community again. That situation never existed again. That community in Clear Lake was unusual. The other communities we lived in, we never really wanted to live right near the Center. We didn’t want to be totally immersed in the NASA world. We never wanted to live on the golf course either, because we never wanted to be totally immersed in the golf course world. We wanted always to have some space between our worlds. It was a good way to do it, because that way we were a part of a number of worlds. We always had our golf community, we always had our NASA community.\\n\\n When we lived in Vienna, those legislative affairs people lived all over the place – Virginia, Maryland, and DC. They had never ever been to a beer bust or Texas barbecue, so we had a big beer bust and barbecue at our house on the driveway. We cooked brisket, chicken, ribs and pot of beans and shot baskets. They had a ball. Those people had never done anything like that in their lives. Legislative affairs had certainly never ever done anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You brought a little Texas to them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 39.40944203347039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Brought Texas to the Vienna community. Actually we lived only two blocks from the golf course, but none of our neighbors played golf. I could walk to the club, and I had a pull cart to carry my clubs. The kids would go off to school and I would go to the golf course. I played a lot of golf. Beautiful golf course. The Westwood Country Club.\\n\\n Loved the wintertime because the lakes froze, and I could bounce my ball across the water. I did join the women’s golf association because that was the group I played with on a regular basis and it afforded tournaments and intra-club events for me to play in. It’s the only women’s organization I ever joined in the places we’ve lived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eventually you did come back to Houston. Did you choose to live in Houston this time instead of the Clear Lake area when you got back? Or did you live in Clear Lake?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we first lived in Clear Lake. We lived in a patio home just outside the Center. Absolutely loved it. Zero-lot-line. What’s that area called?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it University Green?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, University Green. We had a huge hot tub/spa. Gerry and Ace Decking Company, which was made up of half of the astronaut corps and the flight control people who volunteered and built our deck. I think Ellison [S.] Onizuka’s wife never believed that he was actually at our house building a deck. They never would let El have a hammer because he kept missing the nails and dinging the redwood. He was relegated to holding boards and stuff like that.\\n\\n I loved that little house, it was all decked, with a little bit of grass for our dog. It was so easy to keep inside and out. We were there until Gerry went to town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When he retired from NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 22, "return_to_go": 30.160736626399515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gerry had a speech every morning, every noon, every night. Rubber chicken and green pea activities. I was responsible to be on his arm, smiling and charming. That became magnified as we joined the Chamber. One of the major events then was the Red Rose Ball, University of Houston-Downtown, which we were both great supporters of and still are. You just automatically get involved as the head of JSC or the Houston Chamber."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you got your degree at University of Houston-Clear Lake 30 years and one semester later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty years and one semester. Yes, the proudest single event of my life. I had started college in September 1955. I finally got the degree in December 1985."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that during the Center Director time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Gerry had been given an honorary degree from the University of Houston-Clear Lake. He ended up presenting me my diploma, which was a total surprise to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how wonderful."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.585711233720323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the best thing I ever did for me. Loved every minute of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a good school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, good grief. Now it’s a four-year school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m proud of it. I loved every minute of it, and my association with it. That was one of the things that I disliked about our move to town with the Chamber job. I had to stop taking graduate classes at the Clear Lake campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the early years of the school too. It hadn’t been around that long when you were going there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 13.98412359302258, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, good grief. Now it’s a four-year school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m proud of it. I loved every minute of it, and my association with it. That was one of the things that I disliked about our move to town with the Chamber job. I had to stop taking graduate classes at the Clear Lake campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the early years of the school too. It hadn’t been around that long when you were going there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Jennifer, see if she has anything to add.\n\nYes, I had a couple of questions. I was making some notes for myself here. You had said that the community in Clear Lake was unusual, and it was never going to exist again. Did you have a sense when you were living there in the ’60s how unusual this community was? Or was it only when you came back that you realized it was unusual?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:208", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.644907168149032, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what made it like a family? What brought you all together? Was it NASA? Was it Apollo? Was it a combination? Was it something else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all of that. NASA was the catalyst. You were in this swamp where people weren’t supposed to live, for one thing. It really was. In fact it was kind of like—most people that move to places like that get hardship pay. But it really was a difficult place because no one had ever lived there before—a huge population hadn’t. We felt like we’re in this together, and together we can make this good for all of us. We all were sharing a lot – not unlike a family. Houston is an anomaly, for crying out loud. Something that big and that dynamic shouldn’t be where it is. The whole thing is mud. So what happened in the Clear Lake area just fits with what Houston did. It’s almost a spirit or something that generates its own energy – its own force. NASA fits into that naturally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking to Sandra about El Lago. I was curious, were there any neighborhood traditions that were established during the ’60s that you recall? Different things that you guys might have done that have carried through over the years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don’t know. I have no idea. We were just living one day at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Clear Lake City Country Club. I actually live in the original part of Clear Lake City and I’ve met some folks who were members of that. They talked about how that country club and then the Clear Lake Rec [Recreation and Community] Center really were a place where there was a large community, a place for people to gather who didn’t have a lot of family or friends in the area. Was that the case for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:216", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.7561456609496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I understood what he was doing. I have an analytical, mechanical kind of a mind, so I knew quite well what he was doing. A lot of wives didn’t know what their husbands did. I happened to be able to understand it. I’m not an engineer or anything; I’m not interested in that kind of detail. I’m more as he is, interested in operations. He would tell me what was going on. He would call me and say, “Hey, make sure you pay attention to the news tonight, such and such is about to happen or something like that. Or we’ve had a problem and so go turn the news on.” I wasn’t privy to anything necessarily. I understood it a lot better than a lot of people did. A lot of wives were oblivious to everything. But I loved it, loved being a part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned his voice went up for Apollo 12. How did you know that? Did you have a squawk box or that was on the news?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the astronaut families had little radio things in their homes, we didn’t. I heard it later on tapes. No. We weren’t privy to anything. I couldn’t even get in the viewing room. The only reason I could get on site is I could deliver Gerry to work or pick him up. I had no extra privileges. I loved him being Center Director. I finally got to go just about anywhere. I even had parking places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s special there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the best job I thought he ever had. To him the best job he ever had was flight director. No question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Center Director, really got a lot of weight on your shoulders.\n\nIt’s all administration."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:218", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.729050734388442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the astronaut families had little radio things in their homes, we didn’t. I heard it later on tapes. No. We weren’t privy to anything. I couldn’t even get in the viewing room. The only reason I could get on site is I could deliver Gerry to work or pick him up. I had no extra privileges. I loved him being Center Director. I finally got to go just about anywhere. I even had parking places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s special there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the best job I thought he ever had. To him the best job he ever had was flight director. No question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Center Director, really got a lot of weight on your shoulders.\n\nIt’s all administration."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, too much housekeeping stuff. But it wasn’t weight on my shoulders. I just had to smile and be nice to people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you guys came, when they opened the Center, did you get a chance to go out there with the kids and see what NASA was like and tour the facilities? Was that available to families?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:220", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.698945260431602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the best job I thought he ever had. To him the best job he ever had was flight director. No question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Center Director, really got a lot of weight on your shoulders.\n\nIt’s all administration."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, too much housekeeping stuff. But it wasn’t weight on my shoulders. I just had to smile and be nice to people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you guys came, when they opened the Center, did you get a chance to go out there with the kids and see what NASA was like and tour the facilities? Was that available to families?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh goodness, it was grim. It was dusty and dirty and new buildings. We didn’t have access to anything, and there was nothing organized to show it to us. They were already up to their ears with “going to the Moon.” It never occurred to anyone to show the facilities to the families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel put off by that at all as a wife?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.776605844924001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, too much housekeeping stuff. But it wasn’t weight on my shoulders. I just had to smile and be nice to people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you guys came, when they opened the Center, did you get a chance to go out there with the kids and see what NASA was like and tour the facilities? Was that available to families?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh goodness, it was grim. It was dusty and dirty and new buildings. We didn’t have access to anything, and there was nothing organized to show it to us. They were already up to their ears with “going to the Moon.” It never occurred to anyone to show the facilities to the families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel put off by that at all as a wife?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We’d been Air Force, I didn’t have access to any of that either. Didn’t make any difference. It wasn’t anything that I ever thought about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier when we were off tape about taking apart your washing machine and fixing it. Did the other wives whose husbands were working at NASA ever come to you and say, “You seem to have some of these skills, and I’ve got a problem, can you help me fix it?”"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.974006494360001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh goodness, it was grim. It was dusty and dirty and new buildings. We didn’t have access to anything, and there was nothing organized to show it to us. They were already up to their ears with “going to the Moon.” It never occurred to anyone to show the facilities to the families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel put off by that at all as a wife?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We’d been Air Force, I didn’t have access to any of that either. Didn’t make any difference. It wasn’t anything that I ever thought about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier when we were off tape about taking apart your washing machine and fixing it. Did the other wives whose husbands were working at NASA ever come to you and say, “You seem to have some of these skills, and I’ve got a problem, can you help me fix it?”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It’s just what I was interested in doing. I’m a tomboy, and it’s what I liked doing. Helen Garriott did that kind of stuff too. I had a hard time doing—well, still I don’t do girl things very easily. Not interested. I’d rather be taking something apart than playing cards or visiting at a tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just had one more question, and this is a thought that I have. I’m wondering what you think. I think that the women were really integral to building the Clear Lake community."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.304451660400002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We’d been Air Force, I didn’t have access to any of that either. Didn’t make any difference. It wasn’t anything that I ever thought about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier when we were off tape about taking apart your washing machine and fixing it. Did the other wives whose husbands were working at NASA ever come to you and say, “You seem to have some of these skills, and I’ve got a problem, can you help me fix it?”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It’s just what I was interested in doing. I’m a tomboy, and it’s what I liked doing. Helen Garriott did that kind of stuff too. I had a hard time doing—well, still I don’t do girl things very easily. Not interested. I’d rather be taking something apart than playing cards or visiting at a tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just had one more question, and this is a thought that I have. I’m wondering what you think. I think that the women were really integral to building the Clear Lake community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no doubt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m wondering what your thoughts are on that and how they built that community."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 13.671612956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It’s just what I was interested in doing. I’m a tomboy, and it’s what I liked doing. Helen Garriott did that kind of stuff too. I had a hard time doing—well, still I don’t do girl things very easily. Not interested. I’d rather be taking something apart than playing cards or visiting at a tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just had one more question, and this is a thought that I have. I’m wondering what you think. I think that the women were really integral to building the Clear Lake community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no doubt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m wondering what your thoughts are on that and how they built that community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No doubt. Rusty [Russell L.] Schweickart’s first wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that Clare?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:238", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.07196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s not much that the wives didn’t do. Ms. Scobee had a freshman roommate. She got her doctorate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was committed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was committed. An amazing lady like others. She and Dick started school together after they were married. Neither one of them had been to college. Amazing. A lot of people doing a lot of things, but a lot of the wives just succumbed to the whole thing, and it beat them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting, the difference between, I guess personalities play a big point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Personalities, I guess. In my case I felt ignored sometimes, but I also always felt like it was Gerry and I together. I felt that “we” were in this whole adventure together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a team."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:240", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.5244, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was committed. An amazing lady like others. She and Dick started school together after they were married. Neither one of them had been to college. Amazing. A lot of people doing a lot of things, but a lot of the wives just succumbed to the whole thing, and it beat them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting, the difference between, I guess personalities play a big point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Personalities, I guess. In my case I felt ignored sometimes, but I also always felt like it was Gerry and I together. I felt that “we” were in this whole adventure together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were a team. I got pretty upset with him a few times. My team member wasn’t pulling his weight. And we didn’t have any money, my gosh, none of us had any money. That was the hard part. We really didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s dedication to take that job knowing you were going to have a cut in pay, and you had two kids to raise."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:242", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9160000000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Personalities, I guess. In my case I felt ignored sometimes, but I also always felt like it was Gerry and I together. I felt that “we” were in this whole adventure together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were a team. I got pretty upset with him a few times. My team member wasn’t pulling his weight. And we didn’t have any money, my gosh, none of us had any money. That was the hard part. We really didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s dedication to take that job knowing you were going to have a cut in pay, and you had two kids to raise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really funny. We were finally making $1,000 a month. We thought we were rich. He took a pay cut. “Gerry. You’ve got to be kidding. Okay.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that would have been an interesting conversation to sit in on."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:244", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.24, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were a team. I got pretty upset with him a few times. My team member wasn’t pulling his weight. And we didn’t have any money, my gosh, none of us had any money. That was the hard part. We really didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s dedication to take that job knowing you were going to have a cut in pay, and you had two kids to raise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really funny. We were finally making $1,000 a month. We thought we were rich. He took a pay cut. “Gerry. You’ve got to be kidding. Okay.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that would have been an interesting conversation to sit in on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, it didn’t actually last very long. It was going to be okay; tell me where to stand. You can do anything for a while, you really can. That’s the way I felt about everyplace we lived. Heck, I can live there. I can do that. Everyplace we lived was fun, had something different to offer. A new adventure if you would just let it be.\\n\\n Golly, when we lived in Florida, we had our ski boat in our backyard. What’s not fun about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you have that NASA can-do spirit."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:246", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really funny. We were finally making $1,000 a month. We thought we were rich. He took a pay cut. “Gerry. You’ve got to be kidding. Okay.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that would have been an interesting conversation to sit in on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, it didn’t actually last very long. It was going to be okay; tell me where to stand. You can do anything for a while, you really can. That’s the way I felt about everyplace we lived. Heck, I can live there. I can do that. Everyplace we lived was fun, had something different to offer. A new adventure if you would just let it be.\\n\\n Golly, when we lived in Florida, we had our ski boat in our backyard. What’s not fun about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you have that NASA can-do spirit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun. Certainly one of those adventures"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you wanted to mention before we go?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:248", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, it didn’t actually last very long. It was going to be okay; tell me where to stand. You can do anything for a while, you really can. That’s the way I felt about everyplace we lived. Heck, I can live there. I can do that. Everyplace we lived was fun, had something different to offer. A new adventure if you would just let it be.\\n\\n Golly, when we lived in Florida, we had our ski boat in our backyard. What’s not fun about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you have that NASA can-do spirit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun. Certainly one of those adventures"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you wanted to mention before we go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t think what it is, covered just about everything. Our kids grew up very cosmopolitan. Wouldn’t trade that for the world. Both of them. You know Gwen, don’t you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve talked to her on the phone several times. We’re actually going to do an interview with her after all these."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:252", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t think what it is, covered just about everything. Our kids grew up very cosmopolitan. Wouldn’t trade that for the world. Both of them. You know Gwen, don’t you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve talked to her on the phone several times. We’re actually going to do an interview with her after all these."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very dynamic, both of them. They can talk to anybody about anything. Kirk is a general contractor here, but he worked for NASA. His degree was building construction, but when he got out of A&M the Houston economy was on its rear. He couldn’t get a job, couldn’t find work. It was terrible, it’s when everything went under. It’s when Gerry left NASA and went to work for the Chamber of Commerce. Gerry represented government and high tech, and they were depending on Gerry to help redirect Houston’s economy, which made sense to me too.\\n\\n Kirk ended up getting a job with Ford Aerospace. When Gerry retired from NASA, Kirk then went to work for NASA. He was in payloads for 15 years, so he’s a NASA guy. With all our moves the kids and I learned that we had to “suck it up.” Hi. I’m Sandy Griffin. Hi. I’m Kirk Griffin. Hi. I’m Gwen.\\n\\n When we got to Florida, Gwen came dragging in one day and said, “I am so tired of being on. I am so tired of introducing myself to people.” Here she is, between her junior high and high school, and she’s learned how to do that and how important that is. Both of them are really good at it. They are both dynamic. And I have no regrets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They have fared well as a result."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a bad way of growing up."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:254", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very dynamic, both of them. They can talk to anybody about anything. Kirk is a general contractor here, but he worked for NASA. His degree was building construction, but when he got out of A&M the Houston economy was on its rear. He couldn’t get a job, couldn’t find work. It was terrible, it’s when everything went under. It’s when Gerry left NASA and went to work for the Chamber of Commerce. Gerry represented government and high tech, and they were depending on Gerry to help redirect Houston’s economy, which made sense to me too.\\n\\n Kirk ended up getting a job with Ford Aerospace. When Gerry retired from NASA, Kirk then went to work for NASA. He was in payloads for 15 years, so he’s a NASA guy. With all our moves the kids and I learned that we had to “suck it up.” Hi. I’m Sandy Griffin. Hi. I’m Kirk Griffin. Hi. I’m Gwen.\\n\\n When we got to Florida, Gwen came dragging in one day and said, “I am so tired of being on. I am so tired of introducing myself to people.” Here she is, between her junior high and high school, and she’s learned how to do that and how important that is. Both of them are really good at it. They are both dynamic. And I have no regrets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They have fared well as a result."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a bad way of growing up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and they both know it. Gwen fought it. As a teen, she hated everything about our world. She didn’t want anything to do with the space business. Funny thing about it is that now her world is totally immersed in it. I used to think Gerry knew everything and everybody in the space world. But no, Gwen does. Kirk and Gwen are both charming. They learned their lessons well.\\n\\n Actually, I’m basically very shy. But I can say, “Hi. I’m Sandy Griffin.” And I can talk about most anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a long way from that girl growing up in Kerrville in a bakery."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:256", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They have fared well as a result."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a bad way of growing up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and they both know it. Gwen fought it. As a teen, she hated everything about our world. She didn’t want anything to do with the space business. Funny thing about it is that now her world is totally immersed in it. I used to think Gerry knew everything and everybody in the space world. But no, Gwen does. Kirk and Gwen are both charming. They learned their lessons well.\\n\\n Actually, I’m basically very shy. But I can say, “Hi. I’m Sandy Griffin.” And I can talk about most anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a long way from that girl growing up in Kerrville in a bakery."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said, I have no idea where I got that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like it was a good life, and still is."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:258", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and they both know it. Gwen fought it. As a teen, she hated everything about our world. She didn’t want anything to do with the space business. Funny thing about it is that now her world is totally immersed in it. I used to think Gerry knew everything and everybody in the space world. But no, Gwen does. Kirk and Gwen are both charming. They learned their lessons well.\\n\\n Actually, I’m basically very shy. But I can say, “Hi. I’m Sandy Griffin.” And I can talk about most anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a long way from that girl growing up in Kerrville in a bakery."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said, I have no idea where I got that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like it was a good life, and still is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it most certainly still is. Oh, I wouldn’t trade any of it for the world. It’s not all been sweetness and roses, but I’ve had a great life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one’s life is. There are ups and downs."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00195:260", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said, I have no idea where I got that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like it was a good life, and still is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it most certainly still is. Oh, I wouldn’t trade any of it for the world. It’s not all been sweetness and roses, but I’ve had a great life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one’s life is. There are ups and downs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’ve been healthy, as well as our kids. Our life has been good. No major negatives. We’re still here, still perking along. Gerry is still as busy as he can possibly be, and our adventure continues. We smile a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We appreciate you talking to us today and spending so much time with us."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.604210537653602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I also applied to Wheaton's theology program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But didn't really want to continue there. It's a fairly narrow point of view and I didn't really want to continue there, so I didn't. Even though I could have gone on for a master's, the Peace Corps idea came to my attention. Kennedy was in the presidency. He'd only started in 1961."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'd gone through the Cuban Missile Crisis, which I didn't really pay that much attention to. I wasn't that aware of what was going on in the outside world, but was certainly aware of the Peace Corps. It got a tremendous amount of attention in the press."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the years, had you known anyone who joined the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.562703073131807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they worked real hard to get a couple of projects in the field before the end of that year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even in 1962, there weren't that many projects going out. Now, the Malawi project started training in October of 1962."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was 4 or 5 months after my graduation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go back a little bit. Where did you grow up, what part?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.291892303479784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even in 1962, there weren't that many projects going out. Now, the Malawi project started training in October of 1962."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was 4 or 5 months after my graduation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go back a little bit. Where did you grow up, what part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm from Rochester, New York, originally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go to high school there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.990991448310872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was 4 or 5 months after my graduation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go back a little bit. Where did you grow up, what part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm from Rochester, New York, originally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go to high school there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born there and graduated from John Marshall High School in Rochester."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your high school years, did you do any travel? Did you do any special summer projects? Any volunteer work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 17.767768275900966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm from Rochester, New York, originally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go to high school there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born there and graduated from John Marshall High School in Rochester."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your high school years, did you do any travel? Did you do any special summer projects? Any volunteer work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, not in particular. My family would take us out to Ohio and Illinois. My parents were farm children who left the farm and went to college. So I had a taste for seeing, getting around. You know, I'd been across the country and back in a family trip, but not overseas. In fact, my parents never went overseas in their entire lives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How about during your college years? And what did you do with the summers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 11.964186973223295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born there and graduated from John Marshall High School in Rochester."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your high school years, did you do any travel? Did you do any special summer projects? Any volunteer work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, not in particular. My family would take us out to Ohio and Illinois. My parents were farm children who left the farm and went to college. So I had a taste for seeing, getting around. You know, I'd been across the country and back in a family trip, but not overseas. In fact, my parents never went overseas in their entire lives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How about during your college years? And what did you do with the summers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have to remember, Bob, the jet plane was the new phenomenon back in this time. And the, the only transcontinental jet plane was the Comet that the British had put in the air. And along about that same time, Boeing came up with the 707, which was the first intercontinental public air transport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what about, what did you do during your summers in college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.515763303581439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, not in particular. My family would take us out to Ohio and Illinois. My parents were farm children who left the farm and went to college. So I had a taste for seeing, getting around. You know, I'd been across the country and back in a family trip, but not overseas. In fact, my parents never went overseas in their entire lives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How about during your college years? And what did you do with the summers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have to remember, Bob, the jet plane was the new phenomenon back in this time. And the, the only transcontinental jet plane was the Comet that the British had put in the air. And along about that same time, Boeing came up with the 707, which was the first intercontinental public air transport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what about, what did you do during your summers in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, different things. Um. I think that perhaps the thing that gave me a taste for adventure was going to Alberta, Canada, in 1960. One of my classmates just asked me off the spur of the moment in June, actually, after exams. He said, how'd you like to come to Alberta for the summer and be a cook for my building crew I'm going to be on? So I was up in northern Alberta, got up into an area that was within 100 miles of the Arctic Circle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had done some international travel."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.128625892868265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have to remember, Bob, the jet plane was the new phenomenon back in this time. And the, the only transcontinental jet plane was the Comet that the British had put in the air. And along about that same time, Boeing came up with the 707, which was the first intercontinental public air transport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what about, what did you do during your summers in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, different things. Um. I think that perhaps the thing that gave me a taste for adventure was going to Alberta, Canada, in 1960. One of my classmates just asked me off the spur of the moment in June, actually, after exams. He said, how'd you like to come to Alberta for the summer and be a cook for my building crew I'm going to be on? So I was up in northern Alberta, got up into an area that was within 100 miles of the Arctic Circle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had done some international travel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, you know, I wasn't afraid of, yeah, I guess you could call Canada international."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now as you're getting close to graduation, you, you know about the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.809584325409183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, different things. Um. I think that perhaps the thing that gave me a taste for adventure was going to Alberta, Canada, in 1960. One of my classmates just asked me off the spur of the moment in June, actually, after exams. He said, how'd you like to come to Alberta for the summer and be a cook for my building crew I'm going to be on? So I was up in northern Alberta, got up into an area that was within 100 miles of the Arctic Circle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had done some international travel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, you know, I wasn't afraid of, yeah, I guess you could call Canada international."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now as you're getting close to graduation, you, you know about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got ahold of an application and filled it out and sent it in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the application process?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.566204806010203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, you know, I wasn't afraid of, yeah, I guess you could call Canada international."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now as you're getting close to graduation, you, you know about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got ahold of an application and filled it out and sent it in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the application process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was basically a form. Maybe six or 7 or 8 sheets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember having to take an exam as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.406894228900226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got ahold of an application and filled it out and sent it in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the application process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was basically a form. Maybe six or 7 or 8 sheets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember having to take an exam as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They may have given it up by then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.340993587666917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was basically a form. Maybe six or 7 or 8 sheets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember having to take an exam as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They may have given it up by then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember an exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you, when you fill out the application, somewhere you indicate an area of preference of assignment. And they also ask you about your skill in the second language. Do you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.341249181019537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Nyasaland when the British were there. And then when it became independent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It changed its name, took a new name. Malawi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And English is the official language. There are 17 or 18 tribal languages there. So I did my work in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So June comes, you get your degree from Wheaton."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.601387978910596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It changed its name, took a new name. Malawi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And English is the official language. There are 17 or 18 tribal languages there. So I did my work in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So June comes, you get your degree from Wheaton."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And had you heard from the Peace Corps at that point or were you still in the application?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.989367875198267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And had you heard from the Peace Corps at that point or were you still in the application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I filled my application in till May. I would guess it was May."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I went off for the summer as a door-to-door salesman selling pots and pans, I believe it was. And, um, I was at my brother's house in Rochester when I got the letter from the Peace Corps offering me a place in Nyasaland with training to begin in October. I was so excited. I could, I could tell you exactly where I was when I opened that letter and just bursting with excitement. And it took, it took quite a few days for me to calm down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No second thoughts at all at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.210408750220296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I filled my application in till May. I would guess it was May."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I went off for the summer as a door-to-door salesman selling pots and pans, I believe it was. And, um, I was at my brother's house in Rochester when I got the letter from the Peace Corps offering me a place in Nyasaland with training to begin in October. I was so excited. I could, I could tell you exactly where I was when I opened that letter and just bursting with excitement. And it took, it took quite a few days for me to calm down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No second thoughts at all at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my parents, my mother probably had second thoughts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.567120833578105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I went off for the summer as a door-to-door salesman selling pots and pans, I believe it was. And, um, I was at my brother's house in Rochester when I got the letter from the Peace Corps offering me a place in Nyasaland with training to begin in October. I was so excited. I could, I could tell you exactly where I was when I opened that letter and just bursting with excitement. And it took, it took quite a few days for me to calm down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No second thoughts at all at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my parents, my mother probably had second thoughts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But this was it. I mean, once I got that letter, I accepted it immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point, you didn't know anyone who had been in the Peace Corps or who knew any?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.074578703975671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my parents, my mother probably had second thoughts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But this was it. I mean, once I got that letter, I accepted it immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point, you didn't know anyone who had been in the Peace Corps or who knew any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you have siblings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.52730967108408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But this was it. I mean, once I got that letter, I accepted it immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point, you didn't know anyone who had been in the Peace Corps or who knew any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you have siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My older, my brother is six years older. My sister is six years younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was their reaction to what you were doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.14145519009342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you have siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My older, my brother is six years older. My sister is six years younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was their reaction to what you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't really actually remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 17.93495021121491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My older, my brother is six years older. My sister is six years younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was their reaction to what you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't really actually remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you knew your folks were a little apprehensive."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.936831565452556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my mother, you know, was worried, but my mother was not going to stop me. But if you want to get a little glimpse of my mom and father and their, uh, their interaction with this. When I arranged for that Canada trip, my classmate Paul Belisky and I worked out that we would take the train out of Chicago, uh, up to Winnipeg, and from there we would hitchhike. Now that's about a thousand mile hitchhike, I mean, more than that, because Grande Prairie country is 500 miles north of Edmonton and Edmonton is pretty far north of Calgary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, at that time, my parents were in the process of moving from Rochester to Evanston, and my father was in Evanston at the new job and my mother was closing up the house. So he called mom and said, Roland has a chance to go to Alberta. Well, how is he getting there? And father said very shrewdly, well, they're going by train and from Winnipeg they're going by car. And my mother didn't catch the subtlety and gave her approval and off I went. So there was the same sort of trepidation. I remember she sent me a clipping when I was in Malawi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the local paper that said there was some unexplained disease that was breaking out in, uh, in Kenya. People would go, they would laugh and laugh. Continuous laughter. That was, that was the main symptom. And she was worried about this. And I wrote back and said, Mother, I don't think you have to worry. That's a thousand miles away from where I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So where did you report for training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.596479517169506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, at that time, my parents were in the process of moving from Rochester to Evanston, and my father was in Evanston at the new job and my mother was closing up the house. So he called mom and said, Roland has a chance to go to Alberta. Well, how is he getting there? And father said very shrewdly, well, they're going by train and from Winnipeg they're going by car. And my mother didn't catch the subtlety and gave her approval and off I went. So there was the same sort of trepidation. I remember she sent me a clipping when I was in Malawi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the local paper that said there was some unexplained disease that was breaking out in, uh, in Kenya. People would go, they would laugh and laugh. Continuous laughter. That was, that was the main symptom. And she was worried about this. And I wrote back and said, Mother, I don't think you have to worry. That's a thousand miles away from where I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So where did you report for training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Syracuse, New York. Syracuse University had a contract to train us starting in October."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.218310574632784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the local paper that said there was some unexplained disease that was breaking out in, uh, in Kenya. People would go, they would laugh and laugh. Continuous laughter. That was, that was the main symptom. And she was worried about this. And I wrote back and said, Mother, I don't think you have to worry. That's a thousand miles away from where I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So where did you report for training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Syracuse, New York. Syracuse University had a contract to train us starting in October."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was over by, um, before Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the group's first gathering? You're reporting in. Approximately how many were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.909233971814204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Syracuse, New York. Syracuse University had a contract to train us starting in October."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was over by, um, before Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the group's first gathering? You're reporting in. Approximately how many were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were about 46, 47. We lost several in the process of what they used to call deselection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll get there. About equal men and women?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.6769266353491155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was over by, um, before Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the group's first gathering? You're reporting in. Approximately how many were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were about 46, 47. We lost several in the process of what they used to call deselection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll get there. About equal men and women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any married couples, do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.52991848372124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were about 46, 47. We lost several in the process of what they used to call deselection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll get there. About equal men and women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any married couples, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A few. And a few marriages came out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What, do you recall your impression? You know, now you're meeting 30 some other people who also said they're going to join the Peace Corps. And then there's you. Do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.094538386448887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I had a little bit of insecurity. I was a skinny, gawky kid. I went to a college which was relatively unknown, although now I realize what a terrific education I got there. And there were kids there with, um, there were a couple of lawyers. There were Harvard grads. And quite an impressive array of young people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it took me a while to, um, feel comfortable with them. And also from my background, I was a non-drinker. And after training, just about every day, the, uh, maybe two thirds or three quarters of them would go across the street and spend the rest of the evening in the bar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't participate in that, you see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great American tradition."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.993931540498764, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it took me a while to, um, feel comfortable with them. And also from my background, I was a non-drinker. And after training, just about every day, the, uh, maybe two thirds or three quarters of them would go across the street and spend the rest of the evening in the bar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't participate in that, you see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great American tradition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was a growth experience for me in that coming from this religious background that was pretty sure they were right, I had to reconcile the fact that here were a bunch of people who were going to go overseas and give of themselves for two years and get nothing back materially for this, um, whose personal habits weren't as tight, tightly wound as mine. And yet I could see they were good people. And that was a very good experience for me and helped me to unwind from this position that I'd found myself in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the beginning of cross-cultural understanding."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.882146156109737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't participate in that, you see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great American tradition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was a growth experience for me in that coming from this religious background that was pretty sure they were right, I had to reconcile the fact that here were a bunch of people who were going to go overseas and give of themselves for two years and get nothing back materially for this, um, whose personal habits weren't as tight, tightly wound as mine. And yet I could see they were good people. And that was a very good experience for me and helped me to unwind from this position that I'd found myself in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the beginning of cross-cultural understanding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. Even understanding other Americans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk about the structure of training, how you spent your time and what's?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.599651791645731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was, training was new. It was just the early days. And I don't think Peace Corps really knew how to do it very well. This was even before they set up the Puerto Rico experience. And we didn't do any things like the Outward Bound type physical testing. We did pull ups and calisthenics and things, but it was mostly the way an academic institution would do training. So there was a class in American history and foreign relations and a class in Chinyanja, the language class. And health, how to take care of your health overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was more structured that way and lasted through, um, November. It was about, let me think. Let me do this count. About eight weeks long altogether."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eight or nine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was a comfortable setting. I mean, you just coming out of school, so you're back in a classroom."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.221835324050812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was more structured that way and lasted through, um, November. It was about, let me think. Let me do this count. About eight weeks long altogether."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eight or nine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was a comfortable setting. I mean, you just coming out of school, so you're back in a classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about the language? Was that emphasized at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.690928137834236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eight or nine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was a comfortable setting. I mean, you just coming out of school, so you're back in a classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about the language? Was that emphasized at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought they, under the circumstances, they did a good job. There really weren't published language material for Chinyanja or Chichewa. It's almost the same thing. But there were some students, grad students from Malawi, that were hired by Syracuse University and a linguist headed that up. He didn't actually know the language, but the African men did a good job and some of the students did very well at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they concentrate on speaking rather than trying to teach you the grammar and everything?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.212142375371373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about the language? Was that emphasized at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought they, under the circumstances, they did a good job. There really weren't published language material for Chinyanja or Chichewa. It's almost the same thing. But there were some students, grad students from Malawi, that were hired by Syracuse University and a linguist headed that up. He didn't actually know the language, but the African men did a good job and some of the students did very well at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they concentrate on speaking rather than trying to teach you the grammar and everything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you do in the language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.434743673297991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you do in the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not well. I just don't have the brain for it, I guess. I learned a lot about languages, though, which has been a nice store of knowledge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For, for my work. But I didn't really learn much more than 30 or 40 vocabulary words and phrases. But I would like to add that when I got over there in Malawi, I was placed at a secondary school to teach English, and I felt really guilty about not really getting, uh, my language skills built up. But that would have required getting out into the village, because in the school setting English was the appropriate language. And I finally decided I would be doing a better job for my students to just work with them in English conversation and not have them work with me in learning Chichewa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. We'll talk about that when you're in the field because that was an issue in the Peace Corps. Uh, there's also a component of training usually called area studies."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.149715192553323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not well. I just don't have the brain for it, I guess. I learned a lot about languages, though, which has been a nice store of knowledge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For, for my work. But I didn't really learn much more than 30 or 40 vocabulary words and phrases. But I would like to add that when I got over there in Malawi, I was placed at a secondary school to teach English, and I felt really guilty about not really getting, uh, my language skills built up. But that would have required getting out into the village, because in the school setting English was the appropriate language. And I finally decided I would be doing a better job for my students to just work with them in English conversation and not have them work with me in learning Chichewa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. We'll talk about that when you're in the field because that was an issue in the Peace Corps. Uh, there's also a component of training usually called area studies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall who ran it or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.481129867349781, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall who ran it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I recall who ran the American history and foreign policy because the guy came into our class and on the first day and he knew everybody's name from memory, that made quite an impression."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The area studies I don't remember the personality but, um, it was the beginning of a lifelong interest in Africa. I have continued to read about Africa, African history, foreign affairs. I follow African events."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was kind of African studies and then some concentration on the colonial history of Nyasaland."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9520121819133087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The area studies I don't remember the personality but, um, it was the beginning of a lifelong interest in Africa. I have continued to read about Africa, African history, foreign affairs. I follow African events."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was kind of African studies and then some concentration on the colonial history of Nyasaland."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Colonial history and the current political goings on. There was a liberation movement and there were some key figures there. We did have a man named Malan. I may not get this right, but Eduardo Malan [Mondlane]. And he was actually from Mozambique."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is a neighboring contiguous country. And he was a faculty member at Syracuse. But he was also on the liberation front over there. And in due course, he became a member of their new government or, or at some point he was assassinated because of his political commitment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But Nyasaland must have been under a provisional transitional government that the British had decided to grant it independence."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1689024243481207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Colonial history and the current political goings on. There was a liberation movement and there were some key figures there. We did have a man named Malan. I may not get this right, but Eduardo Malan [Mondlane]. And he was actually from Mozambique."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is a neighboring contiguous country. And he was a faculty member at Syracuse. But he was also on the liberation front over there. And in due course, he became a member of their new government or, or at some point he was assassinated because of his political commitment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But Nyasaland must have been under a provisional transitional government that the British had decided to grant it independence."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that in effect, that's what permitted the Peace Corps to come in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.677657314010025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that in effect, that's what permitted the Peace Corps to come in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Peace Corps knew that the British were leaving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it could, uh. So we talked to the people who would be. I didn't talk to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8640636822333612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Peace Corps knew that the British were leaving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it could, uh. So we talked to the people who would be. I didn't talk to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The administrators talked to the Africans who would be leading the government, and they said, well, what we need most right now is more secondary school teachers because we don't have enough educated people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about, uh, whether, was there an area of training on technical studies?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.071181869148179, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it could, uh. So we talked to the people who would be. I didn't talk to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The administrators talked to the Africans who would be leading the government, and they said, well, what we need most right now is more secondary school teachers because we don't have enough educated people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about, uh, whether, was there an area of training on technical studies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was some education training from the people at the graduate school of education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had never taught before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7300162814103965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had never taught in a classroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had done Sunday school teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And how did you feel about the prospect of, you know, walking into a class and becoming a teacher?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9222403126782184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had never taught in a classroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had done Sunday school teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And how did you feel about the prospect of, you know, walking into a class and becoming a teacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perhaps I was a little bit concerned, but I might have been an education major, but I was more interested in learning real content in college. And I never took a single education course. I avoided them in order to take content courses. But it was no, there was no issue once I got in the classroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other big event or big thing that happens during training is the selection process and generally it includes some kind of psychological testing. You may even have been interviewed by psychiatrists."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.135822569642465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had done Sunday school teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And how did you feel about the prospect of, you know, walking into a class and becoming a teacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perhaps I was a little bit concerned, but I might have been an education major, but I was more interested in learning real content in college. And I never took a single education course. I avoided them in order to take content courses. But it was no, there was no issue once I got in the classroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other big event or big thing that happens during training is the selection process and generally it includes some kind of psychological testing. You may even have been interviewed by psychiatrists."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3731361884916278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perhaps I was a little bit concerned, but I might have been an education major, but I was more interested in learning real content in college. And I never took a single education course. I avoided them in order to take content courses. But it was no, there was no issue once I got in the classroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other big event or big thing that happens during training is the selection process and generally it includes some kind of psychological testing. You may even have been interviewed by psychiatrists."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it extremely stressful? I mean, how did the group handle it and how did you handle it individually?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6368179872129196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it extremely stressful? I mean, how did the group handle it and how did you handle it individually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody had an interview. I don't know. I don't know if I'd ever seen a psychiatrist before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most people don't."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.2553308484110115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody had an interview. I don't know. I don't know if I'd ever seen a psychiatrist before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most people don't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't know. I assumed he was Freudian. But whatever I said didn't hurt me. I know that. But a few, I think three of us were deselected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during training, would people disappear, I mean, how?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.243802883878006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was, uh, difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we felt he was difficult too. The second fellow had told the psychiatrist that he'd been in a bar room fight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he mentioned this afterwards in the brief period between his interview and the time he was packed away and sent home. And that's all we could figure out on him. But the bigger picture was that the Peace Corps didn't want to embarrass itself overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right, oh yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.239262819602476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he mentioned this afterwards in the brief period between his interview and the time he was packed away and sent home. And that's all we could figure out on him. But the bigger picture was that the Peace Corps didn't want to embarrass itself overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right, oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they tried to spot problems or potential problems. And it was very hard on us emotionally to see these kids disappear and they wouldn't tell us why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Someone was deselected. We only could guess about that. And of course, you wondered, would you be next?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Did that tend to? Did the group coalesce? I mean, was there some kind of group spirit evolving, even if it was on negative grounds that, you know, if there's all this stress about selection, you kind of want to hang close to your buddies or the friends in the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.468225703212932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Someone was deselected. We only could guess about that. And of course, you wondered, would you be next?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Did that tend to? Did the group coalesce? I mean, was there some kind of group spirit evolving, even if it was on negative grounds that, you know, if there's all this stress about selection, you kind of want to hang close to your buddies or the friends in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I think there was in the group. I was more of an outlier, more of a, of an individualist. I had a smaller circle of friends, and these were usually the kids that didn't want to be over in the bar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was stressful for us because nobody knew what you did to get deselected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Were part of the world, uh, the American studies, did it include world communism?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.874352720015965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was stressful for us because nobody knew what you did to get deselected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Were part of the world, uh, the American studies, did it include world communism?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. The Peace Corps was an anti-communist movement, if you ask me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It clearly was an attempt to win goodwill in third world countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, did you have a sense that you were then being sent as an agent of anti-communism? Don't let me put words in your mouth."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.638169688906628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. The Peace Corps was an anti-communist movement, if you ask me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It clearly was an attempt to win goodwill in third world countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, did you have a sense that you were then being sent as an agent of anti-communism? Don't let me put words in your mouth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, to some extent, yeah. Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But you don't recall any specifics of that kind of training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.375744098785142, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It clearly was an attempt to win goodwill in third world countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, did you have a sense that you were then being sent as an agent of anti-communism? Don't let me put words in your mouth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, to some extent, yeah. Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But you don't recall any specifics of that kind of training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, back in those days, it would have just been part of the wallpaper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. Final selection comes and the group is now pared down to about how many?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.1084374347954755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then back to, uh, we left from JFK. But then it was called Idlewild International Airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think they took us from Syracuse down there by bus, if I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a great day. It was early January, first day or two of January."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's say you've couple of days left."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.676041594217195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think they took us from Syracuse down there by bus, if I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a great day. It was early January, first day or two of January."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's say you've couple of days left."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a couple of days home and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No second thoughts? You know, mother didn't say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.30671288246355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a great day. It was early January, first day or two of January."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's say you've couple of days left."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a couple of days home and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No second thoughts? You know, mother didn't say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, don't go."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.007458758292834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a couple of days home and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No second thoughts? You know, mother didn't say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, don't go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was very keen to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you shopping then? Did you have to buy enough handkerchiefs for two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.786065286992037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, don't go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was very keen to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you shopping then? Did you have to buy enough handkerchiefs for two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, got a big trunk and put things in there that later we found out you could easily buy in Malawi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. So then you finally end up at Idlewild. And was it a charter flight or a regular flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.377858379002515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, got a big trunk and put things in there that later we found out you could easily buy in Malawi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. So then you finally end up at Idlewild. And was it a charter flight or a regular flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a Pan Am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Regular flight. And we, let's see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Couldn't have gone direct."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.602741013568839, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had an overnight there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then, um, after that. And that was on a Comet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "British Airways. And then on to Blantyre."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. In this, the whole process from Idlewild on. Well, at what point in the whole process did you meet or become aware of Peace Corps staff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.114156681743155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then, um, after that. And that was on a Comet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "British Airways. And then on to Blantyre."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. In this, the whole process from Idlewild on. Well, at what point in the whole process did you meet or become aware of Peace Corps staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, we met Peace Corps staff in training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People from Washington?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.898882307183592, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And his assistant. I don't remember the assistant's name, but he was a colorful fellow who had been a, what's called a great white hunter in East Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was not as highly educated, but he was an adventurer who knew East Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that, no, those staff people were a presence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because there was no project in the country at the time. I mean, you were the first."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.0480028483748045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that, no, those staff people were a presence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because there was no project in the country at the time. I mean, you were the first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were the first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they were in Syracuse all the time, but they certainly came in. Maybe they flew on back to Malawi to work on things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any staff members escort you there? Must have been some."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.4666701831787705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they were in Syracuse all the time, but they certainly came in. Maybe they flew on back to Malawi to work on things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any staff members escort you there? Must have been some."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There must have been, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Arrived in Blantyre."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.0740779813097445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There must have been, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Arrived in Blantyre."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Blantyre was the largest city at the time, still is. It was a commercial center. And it was about one hour's drive from the capital, which was Zomba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a reception when you arrived?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.748975534788605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Arrived in Blantyre."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Blantyre was the largest city at the time, still is. It was a commercial center. And it was about one hour's drive from the capital, which was Zomba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a reception when you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Some of this is faded, a little foggy in my memory, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's alright."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.624829437905138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By African standards. Right away you realize things are different in Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, even a paved road was something to notice. There were lots of paved roads in Blantyre, but you could get out of town and in very short order be on a dirt road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Soche Hill College was this teacher's training school where they housed us and fed us and gave us classes and they would take us out by bus to see this and that in Blantyre."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.138699375450153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, even a paved road was something to notice. There were lots of paved roads in Blantyre, but you could get out of town and in very short order be on a dirt road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Soche Hill College was this teacher's training school where they housed us and fed us and gave us classes and they would take us out by bus to see this and that in Blantyre."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say two weeks, three weeks maybe. Three and a half weeks. Most of January 1963."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you, uh, were they trying to get you to match up to the school year or a school term anyway?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.677228224211456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, school term began late January. So they were giving us a time to acclimate to the country, to the food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Get us comfortable walking around. And because it was unusual to be a white in Africa at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe not so much in Blantyre, but in the countryside you could certainly be an object of great curiosity, especially with the little children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And that was the entire group secondary teachers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.308031360234951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Get us comfortable walking around. And because it was unusual to be a white in Africa at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe not so much in Blantyre, but in the countryside you could certainly be an object of great curiosity, especially with the little children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And that was the entire group secondary teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And at what point during the three weeks did you begin to, did you, did you meet people you'd be working with like headmasters of schools or Malawians who were teachers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.00892373359439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe not so much in Blantyre, but in the countryside you could certainly be an object of great curiosity, especially with the little children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And that was the entire group secondary teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And at what point during the three weeks did you begin to, did you, did you meet people you'd be working with like headmasters of schools or Malawians who were teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had Malawians around who were helping us with the training and more language instruction. Lots of contact with Malawians. And I must say the Malawians are lovely people and they were very courteous, respectful, friendly, interested, and grateful in what we were bringing to their country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Early on, did you have any?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.503324737440865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we did not meet the people from our various secondary schools, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The Peace Corps office was doing the placement. They told us we're working on the placement. We're taking these things into consideration. We're not taking certain other things into consideration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was one, there were a lot of government schools, and there were a number, quite a number of Catholic schools, boys schools and girls schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they mostly boarding schools?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.096467403896933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were all boarding schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there was this one Protestant boarding school for boys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Called Robert Blake School at Kongwe. And they were telling us that the people there were so conservative that it might be a difficult placement, but they also told us they were not taking our religions into any consideration for this placement. Well, that would have been in keeping with the First Amendment, I imagine, and American policy. So I sort of thought, gee, that would be a nice place, that Protestant place for me. But I guess I won't, I won't go there because they're not taking religion into account. And in the end, and I only figured this out much later, I think they realized I would be comfortable there and a lot of the others would not be comfortable and would chafe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because religious studies are built into the school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.649959757897449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Called Robert Blake School at Kongwe. And they were telling us that the people there were so conservative that it might be a difficult placement, but they also told us they were not taking our religions into any consideration for this placement. Well, that would have been in keeping with the First Amendment, I imagine, and American policy. So I sort of thought, gee, that would be a nice place, that Protestant place for me. But I guess I won't, I won't go there because they're not taking religion into account. And in the end, and I only figured this out much later, I think they realized I would be comfortable there and a lot of the others would not be comfortable and would chafe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because religious studies are built into the school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, religious studies was in the British curriculum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So every school had a certain amount of Bible knowledge that was taught. But, um, it's just that more of the people, the missionaries there would have been what most people would consider to be straight laced. And I was straight laced myself. So in the end, it worked out great because I really had a wonderful relationship with those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's where you were assigned?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.499955286552721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, religious studies was in the British curriculum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So every school had a certain amount of Bible knowledge that was taught. But, um, it's just that more of the people, the missionaries there would have been what most people would consider to be straight laced. And I was straight laced myself. So in the end, it worked out great because I really had a wonderful relationship with those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's where you were assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was assigned to Robert Blake School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your first three weeks, did you have much interaction with British officials or British people who were still in Nyasaland?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.916262395819919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The boma, or the government center, was about two and a half miles away, and the, uh, the district commissioner was named Mr. Ashton, if I remember correctly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he invited us three, there were three of us placed at Robert Blake School at Kongwe, invited us for dinner. Well, that was quite an experience because he had this huge, by Malawi standards, huge white, uh, white, um. The white stuff they put on?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whitewash?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whitewashed house and veranda and lawns and gardens and servants and uniformed policemen around giving all this grand service. And, um, that was a real insight into the British colonial picture. So we were invited there and also meeting a lot of African."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But do you recall your interaction with him? I mean, what did he, what did he make of you, you as Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.4159977994786255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was the perfect gentleman. The British, though, in general, were resentful of us Americans. They knew they were leaving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, um, thought that America had let them down in the Suez Canal crisis in 1956."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was, that really pulled the keystone out of the British Empire. I didn't even know what they were talking about. Now I've read up on it. Now I understand why they were resentful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The death knell."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.23999755497625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, um, thought that America had let them down in the Suez Canal crisis in 1956."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was, that really pulled the keystone out of the British Empire. I didn't even know what they were talking about. Now I've read up on it. Now I understand why they were resentful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The death knell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they were leaving and they knew they were dropping from a first rate power to a second rate power. And here were these young American kids who thought they knew so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went, you were taken from Blantyre. Did the school come and pick you up and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.044441727751389, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was, that really pulled the keystone out of the British Empire. I didn't even know what they were talking about. Now I've read up on it. Now I understand why they were resentful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The death knell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they were leaving and they knew they were dropping from a first rate power to a second rate power. And here were these young American kids who thought they knew so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went, you were taken from Blantyre. Did the school come and pick you up and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Peace Corps delivered us in Land Rovers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the three weeks, did the Peace Corps staff try to establish any policies about where you could travel, what they expected of you? Was there any kind of trying to shape what it is you would be doing? Do you recall any of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.604935253057099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they were leaving and they knew they were dropping from a first rate power to a second rate power. And here were these young American kids who thought they knew so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went, you were taken from Blantyre. Did the school come and pick you up and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Peace Corps delivered us in Land Rovers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the three weeks, did the Peace Corps staff try to establish any policies about where you could travel, what they expected of you? Was there any kind of trying to shape what it is you would be doing? Do you recall any of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there certainly was. I don't recall too many specifics. But the one, one specific I remember was. [tape break] Back of my mind, I'd like to be a writer. And as soon as I heard that, it was like, oh well, I'm off the hook for that. Now, a year later, Malawi III showed up and Paul Theroux was a member of Malawi III and I remember specifically meeting him down at the rest house that the Peace Corps kept for us in Blantyre when we needed to, you know, get back to town and we had a place to sleep. And I remember talking to him and he said to me, I'm going to be a writer. And I thought, yeah, sure. Behind my smirk, you know, I thought, yeah, yeah, right. I'm going to be a writer, too, Paul Theroux. So that was quite amusing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I think he stayed only a year as a volunteer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.808562040811233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there certainly was. I don't recall too many specifics. But the one, one specific I remember was. [tape break] Back of my mind, I'd like to be a writer. And as soon as I heard that, it was like, oh well, I'm off the hook for that. Now, a year later, Malawi III showed up and Paul Theroux was a member of Malawi III and I remember specifically meeting him down at the rest house that the Peace Corps kept for us in Blantyre when we needed to, you know, get back to town and we had a place to sleep. And I remember talking to him and he said to me, I'm going to be a writer. And I thought, yeah, sure. Behind my smirk, you know, I thought, yeah, yeah, right. I'm going to be a writer, too, Paul Theroux. So that was quite amusing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I think he stayed only a year as a volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did write for publication."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He broke the regulations and he wrote critical material about the Banda government and he published, it was published in material that was not in country. It was for public, to be read by Americans, but it got back to Banda. And Banda said, get him out of here. They kicked him out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's go back to your beginning. You arrive at the school. There are three of you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.4539578231235915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did write for publication."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He broke the regulations and he wrote critical material about the Banda government and he published, it was published in material that was not in country. It was for public, to be read by Americans, but it got back to Banda. And Banda said, get him out of here. They kicked him out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's go back to your beginning. You arrive at the school. There are three of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three of us. Right. A couple and me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And are you all to be English teachers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.171064247915101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He broke the regulations and he wrote critical material about the Banda government and he published, it was published in material that was not in country. It was for public, to be read by Americans, but it got back to Banda. And Banda said, get him out of here. They kicked him out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's go back to your beginning. You arrive at the school. There are three of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three of us. Right. A couple and me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And are you all to be English teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, no, he was a, he was a chemist, industrial chemist, and he taught science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was a fully established school, so it had?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.856738053239002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three of us. Right. A couple and me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And are you all to be English teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, no, he was a, he was a chemist, industrial chemist, and he taught science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was a fully established school, so it had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The school had been running since 1950."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it have O-levels as well as A-levels?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.216183589756138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not A-level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Four years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Because in Ghana it was five. We had five forms. But, uh. Well, let's, let's talk about living conditions, then we'll talk about the teachers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.240203988617932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Four years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Because in Ghana it was five. We had five forms. But, uh. Well, let's, let's talk about living conditions, then we'll talk about the teachers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, we expected to live in grass huts from the publicity and the Peace Corps. And subsequently I have met volunteers who have lived in grass huts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a rarity."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.7018807935039355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With children often. And there were, uh, 2 or 3 Africans on the teaching staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Malawians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Malawians. And then also the three Americans who showed up. And that was the staff. It was an international staff, you might say. And they had built for their staff, really it was missionary housing, but lovely brick bungalows. You had running water, you had a wood stove for cooking. A little kitchen, it was very smoky, but cooking was done in the wood stove area or on the wood stove, like a cast iron stove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The hot water for your bath, or should I say bath, had to be heated by building a fire outdoors in this gadget that looked like a barbecue. Except instead of where you'd cook meat, there was a 55 gallon petroleum drum which they filled with water. And you could scald yourself to death on the first day. And on the end of the second day, it was lukewarm. So every two days the houseboy would build a fire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have electricity just at night?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.557645326115484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Malawians. And then also the three Americans who showed up. And that was the staff. It was an international staff, you might say. And they had built for their staff, really it was missionary housing, but lovely brick bungalows. You had running water, you had a wood stove for cooking. A little kitchen, it was very smoky, but cooking was done in the wood stove area or on the wood stove, like a cast iron stove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The hot water for your bath, or should I say bath, had to be heated by building a fire outdoors in this gadget that looked like a barbecue. Except instead of where you'd cook meat, there was a 55 gallon petroleum drum which they filled with water. And you could scald yourself to death on the first day. And on the end of the second day, it was lukewarm. So every two days the houseboy would build a fire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have electricity just at night?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The electricity was either from a generator or from a hydroelectric dam that the missionary had built."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "24 hours then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.9364133417222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the rainy season."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they usually gave us 24 hour electricity. And an anecdote I like to tell is this couple who were there who had been married ten years and were childless. And I guess said, well, I guess we're not going to have a family, so we might as well do something interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She became pregnant pretty soon. Now you have to picture that at 10 of 10:00, the lights would flash a couple of times to warn you. And then a minute later, the lights would dim down to nothing. So this couple, I guess, had some time to relax. And pretty soon she became pregnant with twins and they were not happy there. They didn't particularly like the missionaries and they went home after one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, let's go back to, to you and your. So you're given the house."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.484903713024666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they usually gave us 24 hour electricity. And an anecdote I like to tell is this couple who were there who had been married ten years and were childless. And I guess said, well, I guess we're not going to have a family, so we might as well do something interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She became pregnant pretty soon. Now you have to picture that at 10 of 10:00, the lights would flash a couple of times to warn you. And then a minute later, the lights would dim down to nothing. So this couple, I guess, had some time to relax. And pretty soon she became pregnant with twins and they were not happy there. They didn't particularly like the missionaries and they went home after one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, let's go back to, to you and your. So you're given the house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I shared the house actually at the beginning. There was kind of a rolling personnel changes there between the missionaries and the Africans. So at some times I lived with an African teacher and at some times I lived as a guest in the home of a missionary family and sometimes there was the three Peace Corps guys. And the second year we were together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Were there any British teachers on staff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.152131293586647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had a British volunteer named Jonathan Fox."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A VSO?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "VSO."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Volunteer service overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Sort of the equivalent of Peace Corps. But they would make fun of Peace Corps because they just came. They didn't have to be trained or anything."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.835701437318496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "VSO."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Volunteer service overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Sort of the equivalent of Peace Corps. But they would make fun of Peace Corps because they just came. They didn't have to be trained or anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.595223819242774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Volunteer service overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Sort of the equivalent of Peace Corps. But they would make fun of Peace Corps because they just came. They didn't have to be trained or anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "British snobbery, but Jonathan Fox was a terrific character. I wish I knew where he was today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So you walk into a very well established system."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.439137576936416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "British snobbery, but Jonathan Fox was a terrific character. I wish I knew where he was today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So you walk into a very well established system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was well run."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was, and what was the headmaster's expectation of the role that you would play?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.376819529929351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "British snobbery, but Jonathan Fox was a terrific character. I wish I knew where he was today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So you walk into a very well established system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was well run."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was, and what was the headmaster's expectation of the role that you would play?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they said to me, you're the junior and senior English master. And I was a little caught off guard because I was surprised that they gave me so much responsibility right from the start."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your seniors would be facing the, uh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.418688366588167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was well run."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was, and what was the headmaster's expectation of the role that you would play?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they said to me, you're the junior and senior English master. And I was a little caught off guard because I was surprised that they gave me so much responsibility right from the start."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your seniors would be facing the, uh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The West African, well, not the West African."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.448541939625313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, Dr. Lowe actually in the '30s came over to the States and completed a PhD at Yale in 1940 in the field of race relations, which is no longer a field, but he was a very sophisticated man and a lovely man who did a good job running the school. I was, he was a real good friend to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was great working for Dr. Lowe. And he ran a wonderful school. And I would like to also add that even though our school did not get the top students generally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they went to the government schools, our work with them meant that, uh, showed up in the final exams. Generally, we had the highest pass rate for the secondary school, ordinary levels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm wondering. There was a great sensitivity about what was going on in South Africa on the part of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.942824377361459, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was great working for Dr. Lowe. And he ran a wonderful school. And I would like to also add that even though our school did not get the top students generally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they went to the government schools, our work with them meant that, uh, showed up in the final exams. Generally, we had the highest pass rate for the secondary school, ordinary levels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm wondering. There was a great sensitivity about what was going on in South Africa on the part of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps officials and other Americans. And yet you're placed in a situation where a significant number of the staff and the school itself is being run by Afrikaners."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.492027085957177, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they went to the government schools, our work with them meant that, uh, showed up in the final exams. Generally, we had the highest pass rate for the secondary school, ordinary levels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm wondering. There was a great sensitivity about what was going on in South Africa on the part of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps officials and other Americans. And yet you're placed in a situation where a significant number of the staff and the school itself is being run by Afrikaners."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a problem? Were you ever alerted to being careful not to say anything or avoid any kind of political discussion? How did that play out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.545712451798983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a problem? Were you ever alerted to being careful not to say anything or avoid any kind of political discussion? How did that play out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was already aware of apartheid. I'd read Cry the Beloved Country. I knew that, uh, I knew what apartheid meant, at least on paper. So I was a little uncomfortable with these people. And it took me a while to realize that they were probably the cream of the crop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a chance to travel to South Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no restriction on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3897684590110897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a chance to travel to South Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no restriction on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at that time. Later they said you shouldn't go to South Africa. But at the beginning it was okay. And through my contacts at the mission station, I had people to visit and stay with and saw a lot of interesting things in the three week tour in South Africa. But I certainly didn't like apartheid when I saw it in South Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, and I'll never forget this. One of the teachers drove me down to Jo'burg [Johannesburg], and from there I hitchhiked. But when we got to Jo'burg, he pulled in his, his car needed some work. He pulled into a repair shop and on the back of a, like in Europe, there is an oval that lists the country and ML was on the back of his car. And the mechanic said, what are you doing live up there living with those monkeys? So I had a sense of the derision that these missionaries had to put up with by their career choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So one would assume that the missionaries were not racist or would not particularly supporters of apartheid."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.184899332112456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, and I'll never forget this. One of the teachers drove me down to Jo'burg [Johannesburg], and from there I hitchhiked. But when we got to Jo'burg, he pulled in his, his car needed some work. He pulled into a repair shop and on the back of a, like in Europe, there is an oval that lists the country and ML was on the back of his car. And the mechanic said, what are you doing live up there living with those monkeys? So I had a sense of the derision that these missionaries had to put up with by their career choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So one would assume that the missionaries were not racist or would not particularly supporters of apartheid."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They weren't. They were insofar, well, maybe they supported apartheid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a political thing. And we used to have great discussions. Some, some were more supportive than others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I was wondering whether even sending you out initially the Peace Corps had given you any cautions or if they were even aware of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5387770356805066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They weren't. They were insofar, well, maybe they supported apartheid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a political thing. And we used to have great discussions. Some, some were more supportive than others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I was wondering whether even sending you out initially the Peace Corps had given you any cautions or if they were even aware of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure, we were aware of it. We were all a little tense about it because the United States had a strong position, anti-apartheid position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no official letters, policy statements from Peace Corps to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9319744840894515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a political thing. And we used to have great discussions. Some, some were more supportive than others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I was wondering whether even sending you out initially the Peace Corps had given you any cautions or if they were even aware of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure, we were aware of it. We were all a little tense about it because the United States had a strong position, anti-apartheid position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no official letters, policy statements from Peace Corps to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or pulling you aside and saying you're going into a?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.368860537877168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure, we were aware of it. We were all a little tense about it because the United States had a strong position, anti-apartheid position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no official letters, policy statements from Peace Corps to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or pulling you aside and saying you're going into a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, I knew I was going into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was not said that from by Poole and others?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.854289486530186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or pulling you aside and saying you're going into a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, I knew I was going into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was not said that from by Poole and others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I just, uh. How about, let's talk about your adjustment into the teaching schedule. You were a little disconcerted with the fact that you were teaching the two top classes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.393654985033541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, I knew I was going into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was not said that from by Poole and others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I just, uh. How about, let's talk about your adjustment into the teaching schedule. You were a little disconcerted with the fact that you were teaching the two top classes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they put a lot of confidence in me right off the bat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know what they did, what about you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9929499833706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I just, uh. How about, let's talk about your adjustment into the teaching schedule. You were a little disconcerted with the fact that you were teaching the two top classes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they put a lot of confidence in me right off the bat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know what they did, what about you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I adjusted to it right away. You know, I loved the classroom experience and I was very devoted to it. I cared a lot about my students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it English literature mainly?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.658833314856222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they put a lot of confidence in me right off the bat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know what they did, what about you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I adjusted to it right away. You know, I loved the classroom experience and I was very devoted to it. I cared a lot about my students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it English literature mainly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you had the set books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. You remember the set books you were working from?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5294238455015083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you had the set books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. You remember the set books you were working from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember My Family and Other Animals by Durrell. That was a very funny book. The boys loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I wish I could name the other ones, but you really had Shakespeare. We always did a Shakespeare play. Macbeth. You had to work through line by line virtually to make sure the kids understood what was going on. And you develop vocabulary, and then they would write about what was going on. And there was a lot of correction of writing and blackboard work, examples and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the classic problems that teachers in Peace Corps going into your situation have is you come in with your American English and, for the most part, your students are attuned to British English, British accent, as well as their own language has a different lilt to it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.921582050557231, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember My Family and Other Animals by Durrell. That was a very funny book. The boys loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I wish I could name the other ones, but you really had Shakespeare. We always did a Shakespeare play. Macbeth. You had to work through line by line virtually to make sure the kids understood what was going on. And you develop vocabulary, and then they would write about what was going on. And there was a lot of correction of writing and blackboard work, examples and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the classic problems that teachers in Peace Corps going into your situation have is you come in with your American English and, for the most part, your students are attuned to British English, British accent, as well as their own language has a different lilt to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your adjustment to that? I mean, how you finally figured out that they didn't understand you at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.606891420441026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your adjustment to that? I mean, how you finally figured out that they didn't understand you at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I slowed down my speech and became more articulate, and I think that has stayed with me to some extent. I do try to, to speak very clearly, and I'm aware of vowel differences. It used to annoy me with the kids in my project who weren't able to make the shift to the longer vowels. So someone would say Kongwe, that's K-O-N-G-W-E. But it was Kongwe, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Banda. President Banda instead of President Banda, things like that. But I had an ear for that. And I did get a lot out of the linguistics training from Syracuse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there weren't major misunderstandings."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3418412598037355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Banda. President Banda instead of President Banda, things like that. But I had an ear for that. And I did get a lot out of the linguistics training from Syracuse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there weren't major misunderstandings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a lot to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I had to make these adjustments, but it was very clear that I had to adjust to British rather than trying to get the boys to talk like me. But they did love to imitate us and say things like gonna, wanna, shoulda, you know. And I'd hear these things and they didn't quite sound right, you know. And I'd sort of cringe and think, oh my goodness, look what I've done to their fine basic English instruction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe your classroom setting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.858925864660471, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were no drop ceilings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Each class had eight hanging light bulbs. And at night, the boys would come back and study from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. in artificial lighting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then they'd leave for bedtime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many students in the class?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.287695405178301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Each class had eight hanging light bulbs. And at night, the boys would come back and study from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. in artificial lighting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then they'd leave for bedtime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many students in the class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty. 30 seats. And every seat was full. Very, very little absenteeism. Everybody there was there to learn. They were respectful. They were earnest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they were living on."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.652994894642557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then they'd leave for bedtime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many students in the class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty. 30 seats. And every seat was full. Very, very little absenteeism. Everybody there was there to learn. They were respectful. They were earnest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they were living on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Living. And they had dining hall and dormitories. One dorm was two stories. Now, that's very unusual in up country Malawi to have a two story building. And that building was named Mulanje, which is the name of the high peak in, in Malawi. So it was a great novelty to have this two story dormitory and a point of pride if you lived in Mulanje."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How did you address the students, do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.058883216269508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty. 30 seats. And every seat was full. Very, very little absenteeism. Everybody there was there to learn. They were respectful. They were earnest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they were living on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Living. And they had dining hall and dormitories. One dorm was two stories. Now, that's very unusual in up country Malawi to have a two story building. And that building was named Mulanje, which is the name of the high peak in, in Malawi. So it was a great novelty to have this two story dormitory and a point of pride if you lived in Mulanje."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How did you address the students, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were pretty informal. The British tradition was your teacher is aloof and sir and all that. When we entered the classroom, they all stood up. Well, right away we said, hey, fellas, you know, relax. It's okay. But that was a mistake. I see that as a mistake. We should have fitted in a little more closely to the established tradition because it confused them. They didn't know when to stand and when not to stand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your first six months, did you have any discipline problems?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.509870240299453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Living. And they had dining hall and dormitories. One dorm was two stories. Now, that's very unusual in up country Malawi to have a two story building. And that building was named Mulanje, which is the name of the high peak in, in Malawi. So it was a great novelty to have this two story dormitory and a point of pride if you lived in Mulanje."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How did you address the students, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were pretty informal. The British tradition was your teacher is aloof and sir and all that. When we entered the classroom, they all stood up. Well, right away we said, hey, fellas, you know, relax. It's okay. But that was a mistake. I see that as a mistake. We should have fitted in a little more closely to the established tradition because it confused them. They didn't know when to stand and when not to stand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your first six months, did you have any discipline problems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no discipline problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you able to sort of work with the married couple to process your experience? You know, your, to work through your adjustment to teaching there. Was there anyone you could turn to to talk it over to just to get some sense of whether you were doing it well or poorly?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8998558225549473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were pretty informal. The British tradition was your teacher is aloof and sir and all that. When we entered the classroom, they all stood up. Well, right away we said, hey, fellas, you know, relax. It's okay. But that was a mistake. I see that as a mistake. We should have fitted in a little more closely to the established tradition because it confused them. They didn't know when to stand and when not to stand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your first six months, did you have any discipline problems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no discipline problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you able to sort of work with the married couple to process your experience? You know, your, to work through your adjustment to teaching there. Was there anyone you could turn to to talk it over to just to get some sense of whether you were doing it well or poorly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, the married couple and I were comfortable with each other, but I don't really feel that I ever became good friends of theirs. They were not happy, as I said. They made some mistakes at the beginning with their houseboy. They had their houseboy sit and eat with them and he fell apart. He became no good for doing his work in about ten days or two weeks. And I had better luck with my houseboy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how did you know what was the roles between houseboy and, uh, teacher, you know, master?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.604440079518615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't know what we were doing when we did try to break it down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it usually didn't work out well. Now, on the other hand, I think the schoolboys appreciated the opportunity to get to know us Americans as people and see us more as people rather than somebody on a pedestal. So you have to differentiate, and this is where it gets thick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have white privilege. You have teacher privilege. You have the employer privilege, uh, the foreigner, the guest privilege. All these things can be jumbled up together and you have to be there quite a while to begin to sort out the social implications of your role and their roles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had anyone in training or had Peace Corps staff kind of, had there been any group sessions talking about roles?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.338266755020683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it usually didn't work out well. Now, on the other hand, I think the schoolboys appreciated the opportunity to get to know us Americans as people and see us more as people rather than somebody on a pedestal. So you have to differentiate, and this is where it gets thick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have white privilege. You have teacher privilege. You have the employer privilege, uh, the foreigner, the guest privilege. All these things can be jumbled up together and you have to be there quite a while to begin to sort out the social implications of your role and their roles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had anyone in training or had Peace Corps staff kind of, had there been any group sessions talking about roles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, some discussion of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were at least aware of the possibility that, you know, it wasn't exactly as it might be back in the United States?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.153629727800759, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have white privilege. You have teacher privilege. You have the employer privilege, uh, the foreigner, the guest privilege. All these things can be jumbled up together and you have to be there quite a while to begin to sort out the social implications of your role and their roles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had anyone in training or had Peace Corps staff kind of, had there been any group sessions talking about roles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, some discussion of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were at least aware of the possibility that, you know, it wasn't exactly as it might be back in the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, certainly. Yeah, certainly aware of that. But theory is one thing. Practice is something else. Now, you asked me, where did we process these things? Mostly we processed them back when we'd get down to the rest house in Blantyre and talked to other volunteers. Or go visit our colleagues at other schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had, you know, the circle of friends you had gotten through training that you could meet in Blantyre and more readily talk over your teaching."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.362505836791059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, certainly. Yeah, certainly aware of that. But theory is one thing. Practice is something else. Now, you asked me, where did we process these things? Mostly we processed them back when we'd get down to the rest house in Blantyre and talked to other volunteers. Or go visit our colleagues at other schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had, you know, the circle of friends you had gotten through training that you could meet in Blantyre and more readily talk over your teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, anybody. Once you came back into Blantyre from being upcountry, you were ready to be an American and chat and discuss things. And that was a great decompression. You probably experienced the same kind of thing because there's a tension in being immersed in another culture and it's hard on the nerves. And, you know, you go through the three month, six month cycle. And after six months, you're very likely to be depressed. And but then you sort of build back up out of that. And by the second year, you're really in tune, I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's stay within the first six months. Do you recall what you were writing home to your family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.069450929767843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, anybody. Once you came back into Blantyre from being upcountry, you were ready to be an American and chat and discuss things. And that was a great decompression. You probably experienced the same kind of thing because there's a tension in being immersed in another culture and it's hard on the nerves. And, you know, you go through the three month, six month cycle. And after six months, you're very likely to be depressed. And but then you sort of build back up out of that. And by the second year, you're really in tune, I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's stay within the first six months. Do you recall what you were writing home to your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I have never really examined those letters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. But you have them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.854945477519825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's stay within the first six months. Do you recall what you were writing home to your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I have never really examined those letters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. But you have them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a lot of detail. I have them, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your own sense that after 5 or 6 months that you'd, you were, you made it, you were a Peace Corps volunteer. You were in Africa. You were teaching. You were teaching, as far as you could tell, reasonably well. Was there any sense of that evolving or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.006105527802253, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a lot of detail. I have them, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your own sense that after 5 or 6 months that you'd, you were, you made it, you were a Peace Corps volunteer. You were in Africa. You were teaching. You were teaching, as far as you could tell, reasonably well. Was there any sense of that evolving or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Yes, I think I, those things I, not exactly what you said, not that I was all that conscious of it. But one consciousness you didn't mention was pretty soon I didn't think of myself so much as a volunteer as a teacher at Kongwe School. Peace Corps in due course became an agency, you know, a couple of hundred miles away who you really didn't see very much. You didn't really need very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was much more a part of Kongwe and Dowa boma district and this American visitor who was teaching. And that was much more real to me than the external structure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you, and the world you were in at the school was relatively comfortable."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.562339475335837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Yes, I think I, those things I, not exactly what you said, not that I was all that conscious of it. But one consciousness you didn't mention was pretty soon I didn't think of myself so much as a volunteer as a teacher at Kongwe School. Peace Corps in due course became an agency, you know, a couple of hundred miles away who you really didn't see very much. You didn't really need very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was much more a part of Kongwe and Dowa boma district and this American visitor who was teaching. And that was much more real to me than the external structure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you, and the world you were in at the school was relatively comfortable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had, you were friends with the headmaster and others."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.180377194817597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was much more a part of Kongwe and Dowa boma district and this American visitor who was teaching. And that was much more real to me than the external structure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you, and the world you were in at the school was relatively comfortable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had, you were friends with the headmaster and others."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you being paid?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.950734941041908, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was deposited into a standard bank. We had a check book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once a month, we got X dollars. I think I recall $105, which by today's standard, might be 4 or 500."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our housing was taken care of by the school. So we had transport, food. Health was taken care of by the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you still would do the food shopping?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.236947792924428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the school ran a farm and they would deliver fresh vegetables, which took a lot of work to clean up. They didn't exactly come in Birdseye frozen packages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that's how we got the vegetables. Fruits we would buy in the market and also beef we would buy in the market. And every perhaps three weeks on average, I would get into Lilongwe, which was about 30 miles away. It's now the capital, but then it was not the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a great treat to buy some Cadbury chocolate bars and some cheese and a pound of butter. I mean, bacon, sliced bacon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But you could get bread and eggs locally and stuff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.76166394188201, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a great treat to buy some Cadbury chocolate bars and some cheese and a pound of butter. I mean, bacon, sliced bacon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But you could get bread and eggs locally and stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My cook baked bread."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eggs came from local chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you physically go into the market to buy the meat?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0685154909800114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My cook baked bread."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eggs came from local chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you physically go into the market to buy the meat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that frowned on or was that acceptable?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.409461656644457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eggs came from local chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you physically go into the market to buy the meat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that frowned on or was that acceptable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fine. But more often the houseboy went in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. Let's talk about the other, the school itself."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.788290729604952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that frowned on or was that acceptable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fine. But more often the houseboy went in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. Let's talk about the other, the school itself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Generally at boarding schools, most of the masters have additional duties."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.20921192178328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fine. But more often the houseboy went in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. Let's talk about the other, the school itself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Generally at boarding schools, most of the masters have additional duties."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Housemaster or you supervise evening studies."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.676902135314755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Generally at boarding schools, most of the masters have additional duties."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Housemaster or you supervise evening studies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sports or what have you. What were you assigned?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.932650391378266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did night duty. One, one teacher would watch 300. I mean, can you imagine this in the United States? Three hundred schoolboys quietly studying under the supervision of one teacher for two hours, uninterrupted. Couldn't happen here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did the choir."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took my choir down to the national competition, and they were very good. But we, we were disqualified because, uh, we, we. Every choir sang three songs. And one of the songs had to be in praise of President Kamuzu Banda. Well, nobody told me that. So we didn't have a song in praise of President Banda, so we couldn't have won. I didn't know this. But we were very good singers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had you had choir training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.369611545975851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did the choir."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took my choir down to the national competition, and they were very good. But we, we were disqualified because, uh, we, we. Every choir sang three songs. And one of the songs had to be in praise of President Kamuzu Banda. Well, nobody told me that. So we didn't have a song in praise of President Banda, so we couldn't have won. I didn't know this. But we were very good singers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had you had choir training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, church, church background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But enough that you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:479", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.855123939973168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took my choir down to the national competition, and they were very good. But we, we were disqualified because, uh, we, we. Every choir sang three songs. And one of the songs had to be in praise of President Kamuzu Banda. Well, nobody told me that. So we didn't have a song in praise of President Banda, so we couldn't have won. I didn't know this. But we were very good singers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had you had choir training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, church, church background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But enough that you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm a baritone. I can read music."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. And who had done it at the school before you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.394582155525741, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, church, church background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But enough that you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm a baritone. I can read music."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. And who had done it at the school before you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the students? Was it, did they volunteer to join the choir?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9939801728063795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm a baritone. I can read music."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. And who had done it at the school before you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the students? Was it, did they volunteer to join the choir?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Football was the, “futball\" was the big sport. Remember, every year we'd have a teachers versus the students game."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you dared to play?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.753059221956624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I play. Yeah. I played soccer and I went out for soccer at college. I wasn't much good, but at least I knew what direction to kick the ball and how to dribble and things like that. But that was great fun because the schoolboys were much better than we were. Oh, basketball. I introduced basketball."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To this school. I found a few miles away there was a recruiting station for mine labor in South Africa. And these people had through the years had some trucks that when they were done with, they just discarded the parts. And I got two truck chassis, which were essentially C beams bolted together, maybe 16, 18 feet long. We cut through in order to fold down one end and attach the blackboard, the backboard to that and buried the other end in concrete. And I actually made a regulation basketball court on a dirt surface."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Built the backboard out of masonite on a frame and Peace Corps supplied me the hoops. They were regulation hoops. We started teaching basketball."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the students took to it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.880320027106944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Built the backboard out of masonite on a frame and Peace Corps supplied me the hoops. They were regulation hoops. We started teaching basketball."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the students took to it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they took to it. They didn't like to jump very high. I couldn't get them to, uh, touch the rim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so then I said, look, anybody who can touch the rim, I'll give you two shillings, 6 pence, and boy, several of them were immediately able to touch the rim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So, so during school term you had, you were pretty much, pretty busy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.422577807896603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they took to it. They didn't like to jump very high. I couldn't get them to, uh, touch the rim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so then I said, look, anybody who can touch the rim, I'll give you two shillings, 6 pence, and boy, several of them were immediately able to touch the rim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So, so during school term you had, you were pretty much, pretty busy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were always busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about weekends? What did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.203810436072158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Either go into Lilongwe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If we stayed in town, there was church services that I would go to. Not every week, excuse me, but, and they were all in Chinyanja."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I didn't really understand too much of what was going on, but I would go. Uh. And hiking, visiting, socializing with the other teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the staff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.8931227067468415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If we stayed in town, there was church services that I would go to. Not every week, excuse me, but, and they were all in Chinyanja."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I didn't really understand too much of what was going on, but I would go. Uh. And hiking, visiting, socializing with the other teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Both African and Afrikaner and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:507", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.510028033020792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Both African and Afrikaner and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Afrikaner. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And reading. A lot of really nice quiet time to read."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes people in a, going into another cultural situation find one particular friend who sort of becomes the, a mentor or, you know, the informant about the culture and, you know, you can communicate about your mis- or your puzzlement. And he or she would be able to say, well, the tradition that's going on is. Was there anyone like that? Or do you recall trying to become familiar with the traditional culture of your students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.513836355770142, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was good at that. I used to spend a lot of time with the mechanic, the missionary mechanic, the one who built the hydroelectric dam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And generally took care of electrical issues and car problems and things like that. Not an educated man, but a very informed man. We used to play chess late into the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Malawian or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was South African, Afrikaner guy. Called him Uncle Chris, Oom Stoffel. He'd been a missionary for a long time and he and his wife were very insightful and we'd ponder issues, differences, and why things are this way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Conversations all in English, I assume?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.276341179963136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was South African, Afrikaner guy. Called him Uncle Chris, Oom Stoffel. He'd been a missionary for a long time and he and his wife were very insightful and we'd ponder issues, differences, and why things are this way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Conversations all in English, I assume?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those would be in English. Yes. All my conversations were in English. Now, I roomed for a while with a guy named Gus Mutambala, an African man who had gotten a master's in economics at the University of Colorado, Boulder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he was a very sophisticated man, bachelor at the time, later married. We were housemates for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was his village nearby?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.904040816892447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't go home very often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that was a nice friendship. I was living with him for 6 or 7 months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later on, he became active in politics. But he was, um, got on the outs with President Banda and was able to get a job at the American embassy, which protected him from any political retribution because Banda was very tough on people that he didn't think were supporting him. And there was a lot of jailing brutality. Now, now we realize there was a lot of political assassination going on all around us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's stay in the political area. Um. Nyasaland became independent while you were there. At what point in your service did it come, after you were up at the school for a few months?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.893378685436051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that was a nice friendship. I was living with him for 6 or 7 months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later on, he became active in politics. But he was, um, got on the outs with President Banda and was able to get a job at the American embassy, which protected him from any political retribution because Banda was very tough on people that he didn't think were supporting him. And there was a lot of jailing brutality. Now, now we realize there was a lot of political assassination going on all around us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's stay in the political area. Um. Nyasaland became independent while you were there. At what point in your service did it come, after you were up at the school for a few months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It came essentially three quarters of the way through. So the first year it was British or British protectorate. Then we had six months of transition, quote unquote, at which time it was sort of a partnership. The civil service were, the British civil servants were still there, but they had colleagues, partners in the Africans who were going to become the African civil servants. And then on July 6th, 1964, it was formally given over to the Africans with President Hastings Banda. And I went down to Blantyre, to the National Stadium."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.770420761595613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later on, he became active in politics. But he was, um, got on the outs with President Banda and was able to get a job at the American embassy, which protected him from any political retribution because Banda was very tough on people that he didn't think were supporting him. And there was a lot of jailing brutality. Now, now we realize there was a lot of political assassination going on all around us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's stay in the political area. Um. Nyasaland became independent while you were there. At what point in your service did it come, after you were up at the school for a few months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It came essentially three quarters of the way through. So the first year it was British or British protectorate. Then we had six months of transition, quote unquote, at which time it was sort of a partnership. The civil service were, the British civil servants were still there, but they had colleagues, partners in the Africans who were going to become the African civil servants. And then on July 6th, 1964, it was formally given over to the Africans with President Hastings Banda. And I went down to Blantyre, to the National Stadium."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In I think perhaps Zomba, I'm not sure, but it was Rangeley Stadium. They changed the name later, but it was a soccer stadium. And Prince Philip came, came in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you need special tickets to get in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.351743157195626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know how I got in, but I was certainly there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Prince Philip with a Rolls-Royce convertible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Banda in a red, I believe it was a Sunbeam convertible, which is much more of a low-end car, but a bright red Sunbeam. Drove around the track, you know, and then took their seats in the honor, place of honor. And at midnight, the Union Jack came down and the Malawi Kwacha flag went up and the fireworks were terrific, right over our heads. So it was a great thing to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a lot of the other volunteers there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:539", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.057492396884029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Prince Philip with a Rolls-Royce convertible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Banda in a red, I believe it was a Sunbeam convertible, which is much more of a low-end car, but a bright red Sunbeam. Drove around the track, you know, and then took their seats in the honor, place of honor. And at midnight, the Union Jack came down and the Malawi Kwacha flag went up and the fireworks were terrific, right over our heads. So it was a great thing to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a lot of the other volunteers there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, some, but mostly Africans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps hadn't said one way or the other stay. [tape break]"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:543", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.712953576400034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, some, but mostly Africans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps hadn't said one way or the other stay. [tape break]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Office. But I can't imagine that they would have in any way inhibited us from, from being there. I mean, we, the whole stance or posture of Peace Corps office was supportive of independence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they didn't tell us certain things that were happening which were embarrassing to, uh, or would have been embarrassing to the new government, such as political assassinations, for example."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.384024110288111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was a political assassination while we were still in training that rubbed out three of the intellectual leaders of the movement to, to take over and Africanize the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And these guys had brought Dr. Banda back from West Africa. Banda had been, had gotten out as a very young man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When it was unheard of to do so. Educated in America, became a physician, practiced medicine in England, married an English woman. And then when the African Freedom movement began, he was already in that circle of people in London who had been discussing independence with the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like Kwame Nkrumah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:553", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.535832234923594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When it was unheard of to do so. Educated in America, became a physician, practiced medicine in England, married an English woman. And then when the African Freedom movement began, he was already in that circle of people in London who had been discussing independence with the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like Kwame Nkrumah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nkrumah and Mr. [George] Padmore was the, like the intellectual leader of this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he lived in Ghana and the young Turks in Malawi that were interested in liberation brought Banda as a figurehead, to their minds, an older man, you know, that the British would respect, but they never intended him to be, to take charge. But he, he did take charge through strong arm methods."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in the."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:559", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.5937342042847655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to just finish that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So three of these guys were run off the road and shot up while we were still in training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were told that they had died in a car accident. Well, they did die in a car accident, but it was a planned accident. I didn't know about that, the truth about that, till after I was out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then in the time you were there in the run up to final independence, that you knew, Banda and the group that was being prepared to take over the government, there were no wrinkles in that. I mean, there weren't. Was there opposition? Were you advised not to talk?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.437482449205294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So three of these guys were run off the road and shot up while we were still in training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were told that they had died in a car accident. Well, they did die in a car accident, but it was a planned accident. I didn't know about that, the truth about that, till after I was out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then in the time you were there in the run up to final independence, that you knew, Banda and the group that was being prepared to take over the government, there were no wrinkles in that. I mean, there weren't. Was there opposition? Were you advised not to talk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were advised not to talk politics. Don't get involved in politics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But were there any regional dangers that if you were in this area that was likely to be anti-government or anti-Banda? And do you recall any of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:563", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.374980499116994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were told that they had died in a car accident. Well, they did die in a car accident, but it was a planned accident. I didn't know about that, the truth about that, till after I was out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then in the time you were there in the run up to final independence, that you knew, Banda and the group that was being prepared to take over the government, there were no wrinkles in that. I mean, there weren't. Was there opposition? Were you advised not to talk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were advised not to talk politics. Don't get involved in politics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But were there any regional dangers that if you were in this area that was likely to be anti-government or anti-Banda? And do you recall any of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was quite aware of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But directly impacting on you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:567", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.574049998909869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was quite aware of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But directly impacting on you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were told keep your nose out of politics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we listened, but we didn't participate. Now, if you did participate, uh, some of the volunteers went to parliament and applauded the certain people, and they were, they shouldn't have been applauding anybody. So they were either reprimanded or sent home, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were a volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:571", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.844506171493666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we listened, but we didn't participate. Now, if you did participate, uh, some of the volunteers went to parliament and applauded the certain people, and they were, they shouldn't have been applauding anybody. So they were either reprimanded or sent home, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were a volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we, we listened. We kept our ears open. Now, I remember one day that Orton Chirwa came and had lunch with Agus and Tambala. And since we were housemates, I was at the table. Orton Chirwa was one of the few lawyers in all, Black lawyers in all of Malawi. He was trained in London, um, or in Britain and he was part of that in- group. But in due course he became unhappy with Banda's ways and was put in prison and died in prison. But I remember chatting with Orton Chirwa, who was, had to be in the top 5 or 6 people of the inner circle at one time. So we'd listen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Let's go back to school. The, uh. After two terms, did you have a long break?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.938340190548518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we, we listened. We kept our ears open. Now, I remember one day that Orton Chirwa came and had lunch with Agus and Tambala. And since we were housemates, I was at the table. Orton Chirwa was one of the few lawyers in all, Black lawyers in all of Malawi. He was trained in London, um, or in Britain and he was part of that in- group. But in due course he became unhappy with Banda's ways and was put in prison and died in prison. But I remember chatting with Orton Chirwa, who was, had to be in the top 5 or 6 people of the inner circle at one time. So we'd listen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Let's go back to school. The, uh. After two terms, did you have a long break?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there were, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The long break."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:585", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.305253434621181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So their, their summer is in December, January, February."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's also the rainy season when everything turns green."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And their cold season is June, July, August. By then things have gotten all brown. So generally you'd have a term and then a three week break, a term, a three week break, a term and, and then the 6 or 7 week break. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do during the short breaks and then the long break?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:589", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5620412773101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And their cold season is June, July, August. By then things have gotten all brown. So generally you'd have a term and then a three week break, a term, a three week break, a term and, and then the 6 or 7 week break. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do during the short breaks and then the long break?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, we either made, stayed around and did something, a project. You had to report down to headquarters this what I'm going to do. You had a certain amount of eligible times for, to be off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I usually traveled. I traveled to Zimbabwe, Zambia, and South Africa during, during my off times. Or I traveled around Malawi and went to see volunteers at other school situations. In the long break, as I explained, I went to South Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any restrictions on your travel? Like you couldn't go to Europe, you couldn't return to the U.S.?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:593", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.866717626308765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I usually traveled. I traveled to Zimbabwe, Zambia, and South Africa during, during my off times. Or I traveled around Malawi and went to see volunteers at other school situations. In the long break, as I explained, I went to South Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any restrictions on your travel? Like you couldn't go to Europe, you couldn't return to the U.S.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were told not to, not to return to the U.S. And not to, no, travel in Africa was approved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your whole first year, did you have any visitors from the Peace Corps out at your site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:595", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.407464029231961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were told not to, not to return to the U.S. And not to, no, travel in Africa was approved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your whole first year, did you have any visitors from the Peace Corps out at your site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were two inspectors. I think they were State Department people. For all I know, they might have been CIA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We like to think not."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:599", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3302025052246425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were two inspectors. I think they were State Department people. For all I know, they might have been CIA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We like to think not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And these guys showed up one day unannounced and, um, they told me, they showed me their IDs, told me they were, you know, inspecting the program. On that particular day, I was ill, as we learned to say in British English. And I was not teaching. I was in my bathrobe at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And these guys showed up and they sat around and chatted for half an hour or something like that. But I was embarrassed that it appeared to be I was bluffing, you know, and not on the job, but apparently it didn't really bother them. And actually, from my point of view, it seemed to me they were lucky because they got this, you know, government tourist trip with plenty of leisure time driving from place to place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if they spoke to your headmaster?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:603", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.345929018795855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And these guys showed up and they sat around and chatted for half an hour or something like that. But I was embarrassed that it appeared to be I was bluffing, you know, and not on the job, but apparently it didn't really bother them. And actually, from my point of view, it seemed to me they were lucky because they got this, you know, government tourist trip with plenty of leisure time driving from place to place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if they spoke to your headmaster?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure they did, but I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I didn't worry about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't recall names at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:605", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.939921131995394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure they did, but I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I didn't worry about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't recall names at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. They could have been Peace Corps evaluators."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:607", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.599912368883771, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I didn't worry about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't recall names at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. They could have been Peace Corps evaluators."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, well, I'm sure it was some sort of evaluation. They said they were evaluating the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any, any official Peace Corps staff come up and visit you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:617", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.942441648264614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A phone call. There was only one phone on the, on the entire mission station. It rang in the headmaster's office. And also it was attached to his front wall of his, on his house, on the wall, as we say, on the porch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a, uh, wind up phone. You had to crank it to, to get into the operator in Dowa and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You didn't really worry about phone calls too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Poole come out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:619", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.936046275849572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a, uh, wind up phone. You had to crank it to, to get into the operator in Dowa and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You didn't really worry about phone calls too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Poole come out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think Pool came out. I don't specifically remember that, but I do remember being visited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you said that really through the first year, you developed a sense that Peace Corps was almost incidental, that you, you were there and you were doing a job."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:621", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.040051417610634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You didn't really worry about phone calls too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Poole come out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think Pool came out. I don't specifically remember that, but I do remember being visited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you said that really through the first year, you developed a sense that Peace Corps was almost incidental, that you, you were there and you were doing a job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For all practical purposes. I'm very consciously became aware that it was not really day to day so much that I was a Peace Corps volunteer as that I was a teacher at Kongwe School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, initially that grew up certainly through the period at that time with almost every Peace Corps project, particularly with education, was that the policy was it's not enough to just teach. You need to become involved somehow in other projects or involved somehow otherwise with the culture. And I had evaluators come and say, the first question was, well, how many Ghanaians do you know? And what they were implying was that it wasn't enough to work on the school compound I should possibly be doing. Do you recall that at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:625", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.629693108161277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For all practical purposes. I'm very consciously became aware that it was not really day to day so much that I was a Peace Corps volunteer as that I was a teacher at Kongwe School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, initially that grew up certainly through the period at that time with almost every Peace Corps project, particularly with education, was that the policy was it's not enough to just teach. You need to become involved somehow in other projects or involved somehow otherwise with the culture. And I had evaluators come and say, the first question was, well, how many Ghanaians do you know? And what they were implying was that it wasn't enough to work on the school compound I should possibly be doing. Do you recall that at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I had a certain amount of guilt about that because I was not getting out in the villages as much as I thought I would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. So in that sense, I didn't feel like I was a terrific Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a sense that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:637", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.32294103797275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And be more conversational and so on. And that that was where I should be and not worry about getting out in the village. And even as it was, I was often behind in returning my papers, you know, the corrections and things like that. So I didn't really think I had a lot of time to get out in the village. Now, on the other side of the coin, the missionaries sometimes would go out to see outlying churches, and that might involve a long hike on a Sunday, being there for a church service. We had a wonderful adventure driving up country and around to get to the certain place, which was really only about ten miles away. We had to drive this big C-shaped journey on dirt roads. But on another occasion we walked that, over hill and dale."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really got in to see what the backcountry was like when we got off the roads and away from the colonial influence, you really saw Africa as it had always been. Another thing I did was to walk over to an American missionary's house. He was a family man. He had three boys. Named Irwin. They were Assemblies of God. And their mission house was about four miles away. And I often would walk as the crow flies on these little footpaths that I discovered are all through the grasslands of, of Africa, which you don't see when you drive by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I'd cut across country up and down and go see the Irwins and they'd, they'd feed me hamburgers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Worth the walk."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:639", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.46993448663639, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really got in to see what the backcountry was like when we got off the roads and away from the colonial influence, you really saw Africa as it had always been. Another thing I did was to walk over to an American missionary's house. He was a family man. He had three boys. Named Irwin. They were Assemblies of God. And their mission house was about four miles away. And I often would walk as the crow flies on these little footpaths that I discovered are all through the grasslands of, of Africa, which you don't see when you drive by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I'd cut across country up and down and go see the Irwins and they'd, they'd feed me hamburgers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Worth the walk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Worth the walk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as you're coming to the end of the second year, did you have any idea that possibly you might want to extend your service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:643", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.394980847699248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Worth the walk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as you're coming to the end of the second year, did you have any idea that possibly you might want to extend your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was in love with a college sweetheart and we'd been writing the whole time. I think her letters helped me a lot to keep, you know, emotionally stable and gave me a future to look forward to. So I was eager to get back and see her. I left service a little bit before they wrapped, before the project wound up, what they now call close of service, COS. Every Peace Corps volunteer knows COS. But the term COS was unknown to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I had my checkout interview a little bit before Thanksgiving time. Now, of course, they don't have Thanksgiving over there, but the Americans were aware of Thanksgiving and they gave me my ticket in, that is the right to buy passage home. And I arranged with the travel agency there to fly to Lusaka, then to Nairobi, then to Entebbe, then to Khartoum in the Sudan. Oh, sorry. I left out Addis Ababa. Then Khartoum, then Cairo. So I stayed in each of those cities at least one night, sometimes four nights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could do it in those days."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:645", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.883312052999164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was in love with a college sweetheart and we'd been writing the whole time. I think her letters helped me a lot to keep, you know, emotionally stable and gave me a future to look forward to. So I was eager to get back and see her. I left service a little bit before they wrapped, before the project wound up, what they now call close of service, COS. Every Peace Corps volunteer knows COS. But the term COS was unknown to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I had my checkout interview a little bit before Thanksgiving time. Now, of course, they don't have Thanksgiving over there, but the Americans were aware of Thanksgiving and they gave me my ticket in, that is the right to buy passage home. And I arranged with the travel agency there to fly to Lusaka, then to Nairobi, then to Entebbe, then to Khartoum in the Sudan. Oh, sorry. I left out Addis Ababa. Then Khartoum, then Cairo. So I stayed in each of those cities at least one night, sometimes four nights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could do it in those days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could do it in those days. And that was a great experience. Spent almost no time in Europe. I think three, a night in Paris and three nights in London, and then got on home for Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was Poole up in Kenya by the time you finished?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:647", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.537013392221294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I had my checkout interview a little bit before Thanksgiving time. Now, of course, they don't have Thanksgiving over there, but the Americans were aware of Thanksgiving and they gave me my ticket in, that is the right to buy passage home. And I arranged with the travel agency there to fly to Lusaka, then to Nairobi, then to Entebbe, then to Khartoum in the Sudan. Oh, sorry. I left out Addis Ababa. Then Khartoum, then Cairo. So I stayed in each of those cities at least one night, sometimes four nights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could do it in those days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could do it in those days. And that was a great experience. Spent almost no time in Europe. I think three, a night in Paris and three nights in London, and then got on home for Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was Poole up in Kenya by the time you finished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But Poole died in an auto accident in Kenya. He was the country director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So at the end of the two years, you know, how did you, how at the time do you recall what, how you evaluated your experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:649", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.041125991356992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could do it in those days. And that was a great experience. Spent almost no time in Europe. I think three, a night in Paris and three nights in London, and then got on home for Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was Poole up in Kenya by the time you finished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But Poole died in an auto accident in Kenya. He was the country director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So at the end of the two years, you know, how did you, how at the time do you recall what, how you evaluated your experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my. It was a great experience and it deeply changed me in many ways. When I got back to the States, I was much less materialistic. And I walked places. I would say to Margaret, when we were living on the edge of Cleveland, we didn't have a car. Newlyweds without a car, but on the bus line. And I would say we were, if we were say going shopping downtown, I'd say, Margaret, shall we take the bus or walk? Now, she thought I was nuts, but to me, to walk three or 4 or 5 miles would not, you know, would not be an unusual thought. And a lot of those things I really had to gradually change when I came home because you realized how out of step you were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go right into graduate studies?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:655", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.557100125318232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no. I came home and she was in graduate school and I by then had been accepted at Princeton Theological Seminary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we got married in September. And the plan was for me to start seminary, but we weren't able to find a job for her that first year. So instead, we stayed in Cleveland, where I went to library school, and I got my library degree a year later. By then she had a job and we came to Princeton, and in due course I became a librarian rather than a clergyman. And I think, you know, the Peace Corps kind of helped me pull away from the evangelical conservativism."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I'd had at Wheaton. And I really wanted to be let out of that box. I, I realize that now. So all that worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to maintain any kind of continuing contact or contact through the years with people in Malawi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:665", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.082186193361835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the most interesting contact is just a few miles from here in South Orange is a couple where they're both from Malawi. He came over here for college education in the early days and his wife came later to study nutrition and they met and married, had four children. Their children went to high school with my children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm good friends of theirs. Often I'm over there to have, a couple of times a year and they're always teasing me, you don't come enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For nsima and ndiwal. But you can go over there and have good African cooking anytime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've been involved in returned volunteer affairs, I gather, through the?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:673", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.770440776347866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the 15th, I believe that was, 15 years after founding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was at the 25th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was at the 40th, which was actually the 41st. I just was in Chicago in August. I've been a member for many years of what's now called the National Peace Corps Association. I've been a member of the New Jersey Returned Peace Corps Volunteers. I've been a president of that for the last 3 or 4 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the Friends of Malawi as well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:675", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.522711973719851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was at the 25th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was at the 40th, which was actually the 41st. I just was in Chicago in August. I've been a member for many years of what's now called the National Peace Corps Association. I've been a member of the New Jersey Returned Peace Corps Volunteers. I've been a president of that for the last 3 or 4 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the Friends of Malawi as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, Friends of Malawi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your group still, there's still some communication among the group and you have reunions?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:683", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.087047666087259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was set up by Phil Durand, since deceased. That was not just Malawi I, but it was like 5 or 6 of the first Malawi groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but a lot of Malawi I went to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it looks like we're going to get together this summer, Malawi I. Maybe only 6 or 7 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now that you're retired, you know, look back over a busy life and what have you. What do you think was the impact of Peace Corps service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:695", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.412210699, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's more than half white. So I'm not talking about the traditional Negro college type thing, but where you have a basically a white campus with other diversity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's up there in the 40 percent. So I see kids from all over the world. They may be doing foreign study, graduate study. They may be immigrants' children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I feel that my Peace Corps experience has enabled me to be very effective with that type of library clientele."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sort of stuck with you, I mean, it was back in the '60s and it just becomes part of your, your life."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:703", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.67659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do a lot of reading. I like to read about the British Empire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like to read about third world countries, particularly Peace Corps experiences, and there's been some wonderful Peace Corps writers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And maybe if you can't go, reading some of those experiential books is about as close as you can get."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Anything else for the archives, I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00194:705", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like to read about third world countries, particularly Peace Corps experiences, and there's been some wonderful Peace Corps writers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And maybe if you can't go, reading some of those experiential books is about as close as you can get."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Anything else for the archives, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can, we can. We can stop."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00314:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. If you want to do another interview another day to go more in-depth into things, we can do that, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't mind coming back over here another day. I'll get some notes together and talk about some of the things that I think would be interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, you have a tendency when you're doing something like this, to talk about the people and whatever went on. That's interesting, but I think a lot of things that have to do with the hardware and how it all fit together. Let me think about it. Maybe I'll run over next week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That would be wonderful. That would be wonderful. We can do that. We can talk more in-depth and we can talk about specifics, if you want to go into about Mercury and then maybe about Gemini. Or however you would like to do it. Whatever you're comfortable doing. We would love to hear about it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.06066975355869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I grew up in Concord, Massachusetts, was the third child of a family of seven. Lived with my grandparents and parents. So there was 11 of us in the house. I went to Northeastern University, majored in physics and mathematics and was September of 1963 entering my senior year. Recognizing that I had to do something about the military when I graduated, I had taken the naval officers candidate school and qualified for NCS. While walking out of school one day I came across a recruiter, a Peace Corps recruiter, who was signing up people to take a language exam for the Peace Corps, and I decided that I'd rather do that, then join the Navy if I was given the choice. So I took the language exam and didn't hear anything until June of 1964 when they gave me a week to make up my mind of what I wanted to do. I wanted to go to Latin America and I accepted the offer to go to training in Columbia, Missouri. Long pause."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your training like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very comprehensive. It was their first training group. But we had four hours of language a day. And various other topics, Latin American culture, Ecuadorian culture. Sort of the norms of the land."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after Missouri, what was your next step?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came home for two weeks, got packed up, went to Puerto Rico for a month, to Arecibo to the Outward Bound camp. And then we went from there directly to Ecuador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reaction of your friends and family when they found out that you were joining Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.400744170620767, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very comprehensive. It was their first training group. But we had four hours of language a day. And various other topics, Latin American culture, Ecuadorian culture. Sort of the norms of the land."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after Missouri, what was your next step?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came home for two weeks, got packed up, went to Puerto Rico for a month, to Arecibo to the Outward Bound camp. And then we went from there directly to Ecuador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reaction of your friends and family when they found out that you were joining Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of a mixed bag. Some people were excited for me. Other people were kind of disappointed. I think my dad thought that after I'd finally finished a degree in physics, it took six years to do a five-year program, that I ought to go to work in the field of physics. I just had no interest. As I told somebody, I got him his degree, but I was going to do something for myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they tell you what type of work you would be doing down there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.889715745134184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came home for two weeks, got packed up, went to Puerto Rico for a month, to Arecibo to the Outward Bound camp. And then we went from there directly to Ecuador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reaction of your friends and family when they found out that you were joining Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of a mixed bag. Some people were excited for me. Other people were kind of disappointed. I think my dad thought that after I'd finally finished a degree in physics, it took six years to do a five-year program, that I ought to go to work in the field of physics. I just had no interest. As I told somebody, I got him his degree, but I was going to do something for myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they tell you what type of work you would be doing down there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't know what type of work that we were going to be doing, but they told us about the locations. Our group was destined for remote locations. No city, no city boys here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the makeup of the volunteers? Were they from all different places, different ages, different abilities or backgrounds?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.54412860570465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of a mixed bag. Some people were excited for me. Other people were kind of disappointed. I think my dad thought that after I'd finally finished a degree in physics, it took six years to do a five-year program, that I ought to go to work in the field of physics. I just had no interest. As I told somebody, I got him his degree, but I was going to do something for myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they tell you what type of work you would be doing down there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't know what type of work that we were going to be doing, but they told us about the locations. Our group was destined for remote locations. No city, no city boys here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the makeup of the volunteers? Were they from all different places, different ages, different abilities or backgrounds?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Primarily, they were young college graduates. There were very few women involved, probably a half a dozen or a dozen women in the training group of 100."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the selection process like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.38236511744961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't know what type of work that we were going to be doing, but they told us about the locations. Our group was destined for remote locations. No city, no city boys here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the makeup of the volunteers? Were they from all different places, different ages, different abilities or backgrounds?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Primarily, they were young college graduates. There were very few women involved, probably a half a dozen or a dozen women in the training group of 100."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the selection process like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's brutal. Every, when we're in Missouri, every, I want to say it happened two or three times during the course of the training program, they'd have what they called deselection. And they had various methods for deselecting, one of which was peer review. They'd ask you how many, which of your fellow volunteers you'd like to serve with, least like to serve with. And a lot of people found that objectionable, but that's the way it transpired. And then everybody got a letter. Wouldn't it say, pack your bags and go home, and the other one would say you're moving on in the process of training? But there were some good people deselected. Some had problems with the language. But for whatever reason, you never knew what caused them to be deselected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So out of the group of about 100, about how many were actually went to Ecuador?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.694277922777292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's brutal. Every, when we're in Missouri, every, I want to say it happened two or three times during the course of the training program, they'd have what they called deselection. And they had various methods for deselecting, one of which was peer review. They'd ask you how many, which of your fellow volunteers you'd like to serve with, least like to serve with. And a lot of people found that objectionable, but that's the way it transpired. And then everybody got a letter. Wouldn't it say, pack your bags and go home, and the other one would say you're moving on in the process of training? But there were some good people deselected. Some had problems with the language. But for whatever reason, you never knew what caused them to be deselected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So out of the group of about 100, about how many were actually went to Ecuador?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to say they deselected 20 people by the time the process was over, so about 80 of us went forward and the rest of them were considered for other assignments. Ecuador was considered a hardship post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hardship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they tell you why?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 24.104753247530326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to say they deselected 20 people by the time the process was over, so about 80 of us went forward and the rest of them were considered for other assignments. Ecuador was considered a hardship post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hardship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they tell you why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't find it a hardship post personally, but the State Department had their reasons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you landed in which city in Ecuador? And then what happened immediately after you arrived?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.894170275033694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they tell you why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't find it a hardship post personally, but the State Department had their reasons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you landed in which city in Ecuador? And then what happened immediately after you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We arrived in Quito at about midnight on a flight from Miami through Panama. And the next morning, they got us up and we had an in-house doctrination and there were various groups there involved, the ambassador and Peace Corps executives. Then they put us on a bus and we went to Cuenca. So it took a day long bus trip, which was interesting. That is our first introduction to Ecuador and Ecuadorian culture. The funny thing was is that the bus stopped about 100 miles outside of Quito. And everybody get off the bus and took a pee except for the gringos, and they all sat on it for a while, and then the next trip, they were the first ones off the bus to take a pee. But it was, I guess, our first introduction to the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you are headed towards Cuenca. How many volunteers were on? Because I'm sure they divided up the group to different places in the country."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.882411416704105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't find it a hardship post personally, but the State Department had their reasons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you landed in which city in Ecuador? And then what happened immediately after you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We arrived in Quito at about midnight on a flight from Miami through Panama. And the next morning, they got us up and we had an in-house doctrination and there were various groups there involved, the ambassador and Peace Corps executives. Then they put us on a bus and we went to Cuenca. So it took a day long bus trip, which was interesting. That is our first introduction to Ecuador and Ecuadorian culture. The funny thing was is that the bus stopped about 100 miles outside of Quito. And everybody get off the bus and took a pee except for the gringos, and they all sat on it for a while, and then the next trip, they were the first ones off the bus to take a pee. But it was, I guess, our first introduction to the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you are headed towards Cuenca. How many volunteers were on? Because I'm sure they divided up the group to different places in the country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to say about 30 of us ended up in Cuenca."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What were your first impressions of Cuenca?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.091568240782337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We arrived in Quito at about midnight on a flight from Miami through Panama. And the next morning, they got us up and we had an in-house doctrination and there were various groups there involved, the ambassador and Peace Corps executives. Then they put us on a bus and we went to Cuenca. So it took a day long bus trip, which was interesting. That is our first introduction to Ecuador and Ecuadorian culture. The funny thing was is that the bus stopped about 100 miles outside of Quito. And everybody get off the bus and took a pee except for the gringos, and they all sat on it for a while, and then the next trip, they were the first ones off the bus to take a pee. But it was, I guess, our first introduction to the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you are headed towards Cuenca. How many volunteers were on? Because I'm sure they divided up the group to different places in the country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to say about 30 of us ended up in Cuenca."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What were your first impressions of Cuenca?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I liked it. It's a very engaging town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And once you arrived there did you find an apartment or did they have something set up for you or how did that work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 22.323964711980373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to say about 30 of us ended up in Cuenca."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What were your first impressions of Cuenca?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I liked it. It's a very engaging town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And once you arrived there did you find an apartment or did they have something set up for you or how did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I met this guy named Stan Laser, and he did everything for me. I was supposed to go out and help him do some surveying. He had a spot in the apartment that he was living in that I moved into. So I went from Dave Driscoll, gringo, to Dave Driscoll, Peace Corps volunteer, immediately. There was no waiting for a project or having to develop a project. There was a project underway and Stan broke a lot of ice for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your first assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.915516346644857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I liked it. It's a very engaging town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And once you arrived there did you find an apartment or did they have something set up for you or how did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I met this guy named Stan Laser, and he did everything for me. I was supposed to go out and help him do some surveying. He had a spot in the apartment that he was living in that I moved into. So I went from Dave Driscoll, gringo, to Dave Driscoll, Peace Corps volunteer, immediately. There was no waiting for a project or having to develop a project. There was a project underway and Stan broke a lot of ice for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your first assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First assignment was to go to Cochapata, and we did some surveying. Cochapata was the name of the town that they were building a canal. And we were doing the preliminary layout of the canal. I worked there for about three months. And then the neighboring town wanted to do a canal too. And Stan booted me out of the nest into Nabón. Which was OK. So I had a second project underway immediately, a project to work on, I didn't know if was going to be a project, but did the preliminary engineering on it. And then subsequently worked on several other smaller canals. The canal in Cochapata was about 15 miles long, if my memory serves me correct, and the one at Nabón was about 18 miles long. These were about a meter in cross section, meter square in cross section and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you received by the people in Cochapata and Nabón, the local people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.572795940716507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I met this guy named Stan Laser, and he did everything for me. I was supposed to go out and help him do some surveying. He had a spot in the apartment that he was living in that I moved into. So I went from Dave Driscoll, gringo, to Dave Driscoll, Peace Corps volunteer, immediately. There was no waiting for a project or having to develop a project. There was a project underway and Stan broke a lot of ice for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your first assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First assignment was to go to Cochapata, and we did some surveying. Cochapata was the name of the town that they were building a canal. And we were doing the preliminary layout of the canal. I worked there for about three months. And then the neighboring town wanted to do a canal too. And Stan booted me out of the nest into Nabón. Which was OK. So I had a second project underway immediately, a project to work on, I didn't know if was going to be a project, but did the preliminary engineering on it. And then subsequently worked on several other smaller canals. The canal in Cochapata was about 15 miles long, if my memory serves me correct, and the one at Nabón was about 18 miles long. These were about a meter in cross section, meter square in cross section and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you received by the people in Cochapata and Nabón, the local people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initially with a little suspicion, but eventually very well. Stan again broke a lot of ice. He was out there before I was by. How long were you out there Stan? A year and a half before I got there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About a year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.414217711907227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First assignment was to go to Cochapata, and we did some surveying. Cochapata was the name of the town that they were building a canal. And we were doing the preliminary layout of the canal. I worked there for about three months. And then the neighboring town wanted to do a canal too. And Stan booted me out of the nest into Nabón. Which was OK. So I had a second project underway immediately, a project to work on, I didn't know if was going to be a project, but did the preliminary engineering on it. And then subsequently worked on several other smaller canals. The canal in Cochapata was about 15 miles long, if my memory serves me correct, and the one at Nabón was about 18 miles long. These were about a meter in cross section, meter square in cross section and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you received by the people in Cochapata and Nabón, the local people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initially with a little suspicion, but eventually very well. Stan again broke a lot of ice. He was out there before I was by. How long were you out there Stan? A year and a half before I got there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About a year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he knew all the ropes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the weather like in your area?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.23801967989692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initially with a little suspicion, but eventually very well. Stan again broke a lot of ice. He was out there before I was by. How long were you out there Stan? A year and a half before I got there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About a year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he knew all the ropes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the weather like in your area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was generally sunny, but it was cool. We were high in the Andes. Somewhere between seven and 12,000 feet, depending on where you were and what part of the canal you were working on. It rained a fair amount. What they call the páramo, would be foggy and mist. Misty. So you were damp all of the time, but not necessarily very cold. Not subtropical either, the altitude brought a lot of cold weather with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you spend most of your time doing surveying and working. What was like a typical day in the life of the, uh, as a volunteer there? Or typical days, what did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.042244088774353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he knew all the ropes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the weather like in your area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was generally sunny, but it was cool. We were high in the Andes. Somewhere between seven and 12,000 feet, depending on where you were and what part of the canal you were working on. It rained a fair amount. What they call the páramo, would be foggy and mist. Misty. So you were damp all of the time, but not necessarily very cold. Not subtropical either, the altitude brought a lot of cold weather with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you spend most of your time doing surveying and working. What was like a typical day in the life of the, uh, as a volunteer there? Or typical days, what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the first six or eight months I spent laying in the canal out. I'm speaking about Nabón now. Stan had done the majority of the work in the canal at Cochapata. Cochapata canal. And then after that, it was just rounding up the people to go to work voluntarily. I mean, they didn't get paid anything. They had to go out and dig. If they wanted water, right, they had to dig 100 meters of canal. And depending on where we were in the construction phase, you'd either live in town and walk to the job site each day, or you'd be in a tent. And I spent probably half time in the tent when the weather was better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your health? Were you able to stay healthy most of the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.935826765304835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was generally sunny, but it was cool. We were high in the Andes. Somewhere between seven and 12,000 feet, depending on where you were and what part of the canal you were working on. It rained a fair amount. What they call the páramo, would be foggy and mist. Misty. So you were damp all of the time, but not necessarily very cold. Not subtropical either, the altitude brought a lot of cold weather with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you spend most of your time doing surveying and working. What was like a typical day in the life of the, uh, as a volunteer there? Or typical days, what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the first six or eight months I spent laying in the canal out. I'm speaking about Nabón now. Stan had done the majority of the work in the canal at Cochapata. Cochapata canal. And then after that, it was just rounding up the people to go to work voluntarily. I mean, they didn't get paid anything. They had to go out and dig. If they wanted water, right, they had to dig 100 meters of canal. And depending on where we were in the construction phase, you'd either live in town and walk to the job site each day, or you'd be in a tent. And I spent probably half time in the tent when the weather was better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your health? Were you able to stay healthy most of the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the healthiest period of my life. I never had a cold. Had one cold and I had amoebas or worms or something one time, and that was an exciting adventure. But that's not something I recommend to anybody. But by and large, I was very healthy. I mean, living at altitude you adjust to the altitude when you come to a lower elevation. You get a huge red blood count. So we were doing pick and shovel work at 12,000 feet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was some of the high points and the low points of your time in Nabón and Cochapata?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.03980751700537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the first six or eight months I spent laying in the canal out. I'm speaking about Nabón now. Stan had done the majority of the work in the canal at Cochapata. Cochapata canal. And then after that, it was just rounding up the people to go to work voluntarily. I mean, they didn't get paid anything. They had to go out and dig. If they wanted water, right, they had to dig 100 meters of canal. And depending on where we were in the construction phase, you'd either live in town and walk to the job site each day, or you'd be in a tent. And I spent probably half time in the tent when the weather was better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your health? Were you able to stay healthy most of the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the healthiest period of my life. I never had a cold. Had one cold and I had amoebas or worms or something one time, and that was an exciting adventure. But that's not something I recommend to anybody. But by and large, I was very healthy. I mean, living at altitude you adjust to the altitude when you come to a lower elevation. You get a huge red blood count. So we were doing pick and shovel work at 12,000 feet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was some of the high points and the low points of your time in Nabón and Cochapata?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, certainly the fiestas were an entertaining time. In terms of high points. In terms of the high points was getting the canal laid out, getting construction started on it. That was satisfying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memorable experiences, positive or negative?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.71089724111708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the healthiest period of my life. I never had a cold. Had one cold and I had amoebas or worms or something one time, and that was an exciting adventure. But that's not something I recommend to anybody. But by and large, I was very healthy. I mean, living at altitude you adjust to the altitude when you come to a lower elevation. You get a huge red blood count. So we were doing pick and shovel work at 12,000 feet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was some of the high points and the low points of your time in Nabón and Cochapata?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, certainly the fiestas were an entertaining time. In terms of high points. In terms of the high points was getting the canal laid out, getting construction started on it. That was satisfying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memorable experiences, positive or negative?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can remember a negative experience. That was one time mail was brought out to me in the, I was in my upper construction camp at the upper end of the canal. And one of the people, Stan brought mail out to Nabón, my mail out to Nabón, and somebody brought it up to me. I'm up there 12,000 feet in the Andes and you get mail from your sister saying that your dad is quadriplegic from an automobile accident. The letter was, at that time, almost a month old. I didn't know if he was dead or alive. That was off-putting, to say the least. It was late in the afternoon. The following morning I walked out to the Pan-American Highway and hitchhiked a ride into town. Got in touch through a shortwave radio patch to the States. Found out that he was partially paralyzed, but back walking again. That was a great relief. That was probably it, that and losing a roommate to a drowning were the two downsides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that happen?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.34544137901898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, certainly the fiestas were an entertaining time. In terms of high points. In terms of the high points was getting the canal laid out, getting construction started on it. That was satisfying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memorable experiences, positive or negative?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can remember a negative experience. That was one time mail was brought out to me in the, I was in my upper construction camp at the upper end of the canal. And one of the people, Stan brought mail out to Nabón, my mail out to Nabón, and somebody brought it up to me. I'm up there 12,000 feet in the Andes and you get mail from your sister saying that your dad is quadriplegic from an automobile accident. The letter was, at that time, almost a month old. I didn't know if he was dead or alive. That was off-putting, to say the least. It was late in the afternoon. The following morning I walked out to the Pan-American Highway and hitchhiked a ride into town. Got in touch through a shortwave radio patch to the States. Found out that he was partially paralyzed, but back walking again. That was a great relief. That was probably it, that and losing a roommate to a drowning were the two downsides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim. I won't use his name, but he was an apartment mate. He lived in the apartment we shared in Cuenca. He lived there full time, but he was out servicing a credit co-op in the Oriente, had to cross the rain swollen river and a kid slipped into the rapids. He went after him and drowned. The kid survived. And my obligation was to put Jim's personal effects together and write a letter to his parents and send it off. That was a real downer. Good friend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your experiences with the local people? How did you interact with them? Because you spent a lot of time in close quarters with local people communicating with them in Spanish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.710421455578988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim. I won't use his name, but he was an apartment mate. He lived in the apartment we shared in Cuenca. He lived there full time, but he was out servicing a credit co-op in the Oriente, had to cross the rain swollen river and a kid slipped into the rapids. He went after him and drowned. The kid survived. And my obligation was to put Jim's personal effects together and write a letter to his parents and send it off. That was a real downer. Good friend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your experiences with the local people? How did you interact with them? Because you spent a lot of time in close quarters with local people communicating with them in Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes communications were a little strange because the people spoke about, half the time they'd speak part Quichua and part Spanish, Quichua with being the indigenous language. So that would get confused every now and again. And my Spanish wasn't that great, frankly. But I could communicate. We got along well. I mean, we personally liked each other. We had a lot of fun together. They had a local beverage called trago that came across the Andes from the Oriente, which is basically cane alcohol. That loosened everybody up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But were you the only volunteer in Nabón?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. I worked basically by myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you find that? Being on your own and speaking in a different culture."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.678246061754432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes communications were a little strange because the people spoke about, half the time they'd speak part Quichua and part Spanish, Quichua with being the indigenous language. So that would get confused every now and again. And my Spanish wasn't that great, frankly. But I could communicate. We got along well. I mean, we personally liked each other. We had a lot of fun together. They had a local beverage called trago that came across the Andes from the Oriente, which is basically cane alcohol. That loosened everybody up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But were you the only volunteer in Nabón?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. I worked basically by myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you find that? Being on your own and speaking in a different culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was, came with the turf. It was initially a little unsettling, but I quickly overcame that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me a little more about the main project you worked on. It was a canal and you said you did other little jobs?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.864717846393813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. I worked basically by myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you find that? Being on your own and speaking in a different culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was, came with the turf. It was initially a little unsettling, but I quickly overcame that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me a little more about the main project you worked on. It was a canal and you said you did other little jobs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did other little canals. They had satellite towns to Nabón, there were other little communities that needed water that weren't on the main canal. They had partially constructed canals that either didn't work or they wanted to add volume to. And I did some engineering in those too. But my primary concern was the one in Nabón."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you trained to do to work on irrigation canals? How did you learn to do surveying and to lay out canals?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 22.071908718215347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was, came with the turf. It was initially a little unsettling, but I quickly overcame that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me a little more about the main project you worked on. It was a canal and you said you did other little jobs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did other little canals. They had satellite towns to Nabón, there were other little communities that needed water that weren't on the main canal. They had partially constructed canals that either didn't work or they wanted to add volume to. And I did some engineering in those too. But my primary concern was the one in Nabón."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you trained to do to work on irrigation canals? How did you learn to do surveying and to lay out canals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a cooperative work student at MIT. I didn't go to MIT at the time, but I was a cooperative work student there and we did some precision leveling when we were studying the settlement of buildings. So I knew how to do precision leveling, but I wasn't certainly a surveyor by any stretch of the imagination, but I knew enough to how to lay out a canal. And proceeded from there. To get a low point in the canal, we had to cross and worked in both directions up and down hill. Try to stay out of the mountains in the winter when the winter weather was there, but it was high. I never saw it snow, but I saw it sleet a couple of times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any moments that were scary moments or accidents or things like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.558617159297887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some idle hours. But it was mostly, when I was out in Nabón, it was mostly work. And I'd come into the city and try to coordinate trips into the city with Stan, into Cuenca once a month to get paid and cleaned up. Personal hygiene was an issue. You're living in a tent with no hot water other than what you heat up in the Coleman stove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in the end, with the canal that you worked on in Nabón, did they finish the canal or was the canal working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about 80 percent done and it wasn't completed, but it increased the volume of water that came into town quite a bit by picking up side streams along the way. It was no major river or anything that we had. The last two kilometers were tough going. I don't know if they ever finished it or not, I didn't keep in touch with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after you left, did any other volunteers continue in that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently, there was another volunteer who supposedly took my place, but he had some health issues and I lost track of it after that. There's a Peace Corps volunteer in Nabón now, I understand, that I'm going to try to track her down. Nabón has changed quite a bit from when I was there. When I was there, it was at the end of a dirt road, not a gravel road, but a dirt road. It was very, very treacherous in wet weather. And there was no electric lights to speak of. There were lights, but they only worked part time. They had a telegraph station. That was the way to communicate with the outside world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you communicate?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.176241288108763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about 80 percent done and it wasn't completed, but it increased the volume of water that came into town quite a bit by picking up side streams along the way. It was no major river or anything that we had. The last two kilometers were tough going. I don't know if they ever finished it or not, I didn't keep in touch with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after you left, did any other volunteers continue in that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently, there was another volunteer who supposedly took my place, but he had some health issues and I lost track of it after that. There's a Peace Corps volunteer in Nabón now, I understand, that I'm going to try to track her down. Nabón has changed quite a bit from when I was there. When I was there, it was at the end of a dirt road, not a gravel road, but a dirt road. It was very, very treacherous in wet weather. And there was no electric lights to speak of. There were lights, but they only worked part time. They had a telegraph station. That was the way to communicate with the outside world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you communicate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Using the telegraph. You could send a telegram, but you couldn't. There were no cell phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any difference between the second year and the first year of your service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.97360143123196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently, there was another volunteer who supposedly took my place, but he had some health issues and I lost track of it after that. There's a Peace Corps volunteer in Nabón now, I understand, that I'm going to try to track her down. Nabón has changed quite a bit from when I was there. When I was there, it was at the end of a dirt road, not a gravel road, but a dirt road. It was very, very treacherous in wet weather. And there was no electric lights to speak of. There were lights, but they only worked part time. They had a telegraph station. That was the way to communicate with the outside world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you communicate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Using the telegraph. You could send a telegram, but you couldn't. There were no cell phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any difference between the second year and the first year of your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, as I became more comfortable, I became more independent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you do for food?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.970668256924398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Using the telegraph. You could send a telegram, but you couldn't. There were no cell phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any difference between the second year and the first year of your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, as I became more comfortable, I became more independent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you do for food?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You go to town once a month and you got non-perishables. Vegetables and whatnot. Meat was a rarity, a lot of tuna fish. Buy a salami and hang the salami off this tent pole, the ridge pole of the tent. Peel the mold off before you ate it, but other than that, it was. I had no complaints about what we ate. And these were. Make everything in a frying pan on a Coleman stove. Great spaghetti recipe. A lot of rice. As I say, a lot of tuna fish, canned tuna fish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say were your, um, what did you like most about your Peace Corps experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 19.96740917436044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, as I became more comfortable, I became more independent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you do for food?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You go to town once a month and you got non-perishables. Vegetables and whatnot. Meat was a rarity, a lot of tuna fish. Buy a salami and hang the salami off this tent pole, the ridge pole of the tent. Peel the mold off before you ate it, but other than that, it was. I had no complaints about what we ate. And these were. Make everything in a frying pan on a Coleman stove. Great spaghetti recipe. A lot of rice. As I say, a lot of tuna fish, canned tuna fish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say were your, um, what did you like most about your Peace Corps experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't mind the solitude, actually, as long as you had an occasional interaction with people. But one time up there, I spent 21 days without seeing another human being other than myself in the shaving mirror. That was a little unsettling because I had big plans for a lot of construction. But the people just didn't show up, and I couldn't figure out why. And after 21 days of doing nothing, I walked down in a town to find out that the padre had started to build a A-frame in the front of this traditional Spanish Mission style church. And refused to give the people sacraments unless they worked on his project rather than my project. The padre and I had words. But it's the way things were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get any vacation? Did you do anything special during your vacation time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.963787971511598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You go to town once a month and you got non-perishables. Vegetables and whatnot. Meat was a rarity, a lot of tuna fish. Buy a salami and hang the salami off this tent pole, the ridge pole of the tent. Peel the mold off before you ate it, but other than that, it was. I had no complaints about what we ate. And these were. Make everything in a frying pan on a Coleman stove. Great spaghetti recipe. A lot of rice. As I say, a lot of tuna fish, canned tuna fish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say were your, um, what did you like most about your Peace Corps experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't mind the solitude, actually, as long as you had an occasional interaction with people. But one time up there, I spent 21 days without seeing another human being other than myself in the shaving mirror. That was a little unsettling because I had big plans for a lot of construction. But the people just didn't show up, and I couldn't figure out why. And after 21 days of doing nothing, I walked down in a town to find out that the padre had started to build a A-frame in the front of this traditional Spanish Mission style church. And refused to give the people sacraments unless they worked on his project rather than my project. The padre and I had words. But it's the way things were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get any vacation? Did you do anything special during your vacation time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saved all my vacation and took it out. You had to do 15 days in country. Which I did. And then I had another 38 days left. You could only spend 30 days out of country. I went to Chile and skied for a month. They got 15 feet of snow in 1965. Portillo avalanched, so I didn't get to go to Portillo, but I skied at Farellones and La Parva most of the month. Spent a week in Buenos Aires when the weather was really inclement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you got back from the Peace Corps, how was your reentry back home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.959764412790664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't mind the solitude, actually, as long as you had an occasional interaction with people. But one time up there, I spent 21 days without seeing another human being other than myself in the shaving mirror. That was a little unsettling because I had big plans for a lot of construction. But the people just didn't show up, and I couldn't figure out why. And after 21 days of doing nothing, I walked down in a town to find out that the padre had started to build a A-frame in the front of this traditional Spanish Mission style church. And refused to give the people sacraments unless they worked on his project rather than my project. The padre and I had words. But it's the way things were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get any vacation? Did you do anything special during your vacation time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saved all my vacation and took it out. You had to do 15 days in country. Which I did. And then I had another 38 days left. You could only spend 30 days out of country. I went to Chile and skied for a month. They got 15 feet of snow in 1965. Portillo avalanched, so I didn't get to go to Portillo, but I skied at Farellones and La Parva most of the month. Spent a week in Buenos Aires when the weather was really inclement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you got back from the Peace Corps, how was your reentry back home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually pretty smooth. We were warned that when we'd get home, the people really didn't give a damn about what you'd done for two years in the Peace Corps. And initially, I couldn't believe that people wouldn't at least have some interest in what went on, but basically they didn't, which I found kind of comical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your Peace Corps experience help you with your career after the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.955293791989625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saved all my vacation and took it out. You had to do 15 days in country. Which I did. And then I had another 38 days left. You could only spend 30 days out of country. I went to Chile and skied for a month. They got 15 feet of snow in 1965. Portillo avalanched, so I didn't get to go to Portillo, but I skied at Farellones and La Parva most of the month. Spent a week in Buenos Aires when the weather was really inclement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you got back from the Peace Corps, how was your reentry back home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually pretty smooth. We were warned that when we'd get home, the people really didn't give a damn about what you'd done for two years in the Peace Corps. And initially, I couldn't believe that people wouldn't at least have some interest in what went on, but basically they didn't, which I found kind of comical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your Peace Corps experience help you with your career after the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It gave me a different appreciation for life. I ended up going to graduate school at MIT and got a degree in geotechnical engineering. Master's degree in geotechnical engineering. And I had the opportunity to select different projects. And I've tended to pick projects that were of interest to me that related to Peace Corps work, formally related to Peace Corps work, dams and tunnels and canals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how is that? I mean, it's over 50 years ago that you were there. How, how much? What part of your life was? Well, how did it contribute to your life experiences?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.839215324432917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually pretty smooth. We were warned that when we'd get home, the people really didn't give a damn about what you'd done for two years in the Peace Corps. And initially, I couldn't believe that people wouldn't at least have some interest in what went on, but basically they didn't, which I found kind of comical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your Peace Corps experience help you with your career after the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It gave me a different appreciation for life. I ended up going to graduate school at MIT and got a degree in geotechnical engineering. Master's degree in geotechnical engineering. And I had the opportunity to select different projects. And I've tended to pick projects that were of interest to me that related to Peace Corps work, formally related to Peace Corps work, dams and tunnels and canals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how is that? I mean, it's over 50 years ago that you were there. How, how much? What part of your life was? Well, how did it contribute to your life experiences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think there was always a desire to continue to volunteer. Probably one of my greatest satisfactions when I came home was to. I lived out in rural Oregon. And was instrumental in putting together a program that got a kindergarten built. It had been voted down consistently for the last 15 years before I got there. And I'd say that my Peace Corps volunteer time helped me orchestrate the completion of the kindergarten. Funding and completion of the kindergarten. Knew how to how to handle a rope, so to speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So volunteerism became part of your life afterwards?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.821350360481018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It gave me a different appreciation for life. I ended up going to graduate school at MIT and got a degree in geotechnical engineering. Master's degree in geotechnical engineering. And I had the opportunity to select different projects. And I've tended to pick projects that were of interest to me that related to Peace Corps work, formally related to Peace Corps work, dams and tunnels and canals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how is that? I mean, it's over 50 years ago that you were there. How, how much? What part of your life was? Well, how did it contribute to your life experiences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think there was always a desire to continue to volunteer. Probably one of my greatest satisfactions when I came home was to. I lived out in rural Oregon. And was instrumental in putting together a program that got a kindergarten built. It had been voted down consistently for the last 15 years before I got there. And I'd say that my Peace Corps volunteer time helped me orchestrate the completion of the kindergarten. Funding and completion of the kindergarten. Knew how to how to handle a rope, so to speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So volunteerism became part of your life afterwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, I'm active in professional societies and civic issues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you stayed in touch with any of the former volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.801500400534465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think there was always a desire to continue to volunteer. Probably one of my greatest satisfactions when I came home was to. I lived out in rural Oregon. And was instrumental in putting together a program that got a kindergarten built. It had been voted down consistently for the last 15 years before I got there. And I'd say that my Peace Corps volunteer time helped me orchestrate the completion of the kindergarten. Funding and completion of the kindergarten. Knew how to how to handle a rope, so to speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So volunteerism became part of your life afterwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, I'm active in professional societies and civic issues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you stayed in touch with any of the former volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too many. Gary Richardson and Stan Laser are the two that I communicate with most frequently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you maintained any contacts with people from Ecuador?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.89055600059385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, I'm active in professional societies and civic issues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you stayed in touch with any of the former volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too many. Gary Richardson and Stan Laser are the two that I communicate with most frequently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you maintained any contacts with people from Ecuador?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your social life in Ecuador?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.9895066673265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too many. Gary Richardson and Stan Laser are the two that I communicate with most frequently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you maintained any contacts with people from Ecuador?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your social life in Ecuador?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went down there single and I came home single, so it wasn't very active. I had some good friends down there. I can't remember their names now, most of them. I had friends in the campo and friends in the city. The apartment that Stan and I had shared together with, he and several other people, was sort of the party central. And when Stan and I would come to town, the people in the city would have spent all their monthly salary by the time we got there and we always had money enough to have a barbecue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any other things that, any other experiences that you had that you would think were unusual or difficult, different, that come to mind?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.099451852585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your social life in Ecuador?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went down there single and I came home single, so it wasn't very active. I had some good friends down there. I can't remember their names now, most of them. I had friends in the campo and friends in the city. The apartment that Stan and I had shared together with, he and several other people, was sort of the party central. And when Stan and I would come to town, the people in the city would have spent all their monthly salary by the time we got there and we always had money enough to have a barbecue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any other things that, any other experiences that you had that you would think were unusual or difficult, different, that come to mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the greatest confrontation that I had down there was with the padre over the construction project that he pulled off on the church. I thought that was ill advised and ill founded, it served nothing, nothing to the benefit of the people in the town other than enhancement of the padre's image with the local, I don't know the right word for it, but the Catholic Church hierarchy in Cuenca. It was a project that he could do and say, oh, look at this, I did it. I improved the church. But it didn't improve the life of the people that lived there at all. And I found that annoying at best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you deal with the local politics in the town? Were there different factions, some that maybe wanted the canal, maybe some that didn't?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.33272428065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went down there single and I came home single, so it wasn't very active. I had some good friends down there. I can't remember their names now, most of them. I had friends in the campo and friends in the city. The apartment that Stan and I had shared together with, he and several other people, was sort of the party central. And when Stan and I would come to town, the people in the city would have spent all their monthly salary by the time we got there and we always had money enough to have a barbecue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any other things that, any other experiences that you had that you would think were unusual or difficult, different, that come to mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the greatest confrontation that I had down there was with the padre over the construction project that he pulled off on the church. I thought that was ill advised and ill founded, it served nothing, nothing to the benefit of the people in the town other than enhancement of the padre's image with the local, I don't know the right word for it, but the Catholic Church hierarchy in Cuenca. It was a project that he could do and say, oh, look at this, I did it. I improved the church. But it didn't improve the life of the people that lived there at all. And I found that annoying at best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you deal with the local politics in the town? Were there different factions, some that maybe wanted the canal, maybe some that didn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody wanted the canal. Everybody didn't want to work on the canal. And it was my job to, as a Peace Corps volunteer and community development worker, to encourage people to go up and work. And they had nothing to give them other than the water. But they did a masterful job of digging a ditch. Actually, I've got a water right, too. I don't know what I'll ever do with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe when you retire."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.7030269785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the greatest confrontation that I had down there was with the padre over the construction project that he pulled off on the church. I thought that was ill advised and ill founded, it served nothing, nothing to the benefit of the people in the town other than enhancement of the padre's image with the local, I don't know the right word for it, but the Catholic Church hierarchy in Cuenca. It was a project that he could do and say, oh, look at this, I did it. I improved the church. But it didn't improve the life of the people that lived there at all. And I found that annoying at best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you deal with the local politics in the town? Were there different factions, some that maybe wanted the canal, maybe some that didn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody wanted the canal. Everybody didn't want to work on the canal. And it was my job to, as a Peace Corps volunteer and community development worker, to encourage people to go up and work. And they had nothing to give them other than the water. But they did a masterful job of digging a ditch. Actually, I've got a water right, too. I don't know what I'll ever do with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe when you retire."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back there and start a farm, you have water. How about traveling in the country? Did you visit different places in Ecuador? Did you have time to do that? Any interesting little side trips?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.558918865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody wanted the canal. Everybody didn't want to work on the canal. And it was my job to, as a Peace Corps volunteer and community development worker, to encourage people to go up and work. And they had nothing to give them other than the water. But they did a masterful job of digging a ditch. Actually, I've got a water right, too. I don't know what I'll ever do with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe when you retire."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back there and start a farm, you have water. How about traveling in the country? Did you visit different places in Ecuador? Did you have time to do that? Any interesting little side trips?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did side trips to the coast. One Christmas, Stan and John Snead and I went down to the coast. And we were told we couldn't go to Playa de Salinas because the Peace Corps volunteers' local representative was going to be down there with his family. So we went to a place called Bajo Alto, which is south of Guayaquil. That was an experience. It was a black volcanic sand beach, beautiful beach, but there was nobody there but the three gringos. I can't even remember where we ate. There was a cantina there and there were feral hogs living on the beach, and they were all lined up out of the sun. Took a picture and sent it to my dad and said, yeah, it's true, only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noonday sun. Probably 10 hogs lying in the front of this cantina under the palm fronds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You travel to any other places in the Sierra?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.509909850000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back there and start a farm, you have water. How about traveling in the country? Did you visit different places in Ecuador? Did you have time to do that? Any interesting little side trips?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did side trips to the coast. One Christmas, Stan and John Snead and I went down to the coast. And we were told we couldn't go to Playa de Salinas because the Peace Corps volunteers' local representative was going to be down there with his family. So we went to a place called Bajo Alto, which is south of Guayaquil. That was an experience. It was a black volcanic sand beach, beautiful beach, but there was nobody there but the three gringos. I can't even remember where we ate. There was a cantina there and there were feral hogs living on the beach, and they were all lined up out of the sun. Took a picture and sent it to my dad and said, yeah, it's true, only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noonday sun. Probably 10 hogs lying in the front of this cantina under the palm fronds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You travel to any other places in the Sierra?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, any place you went by bus was an adventure, and it was always by bus. Nobody. Airfares were expensive and they were hard to schedule with the weather. But a trip down the Pan-American Highway in a bus when it was a gravel road was an exciting trip. The busses, some were sort of suspect in terms of safety. But they got the job done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I understand you also took a trip to the Oriente, which is over the."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.5665665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did side trips to the coast. One Christmas, Stan and John Snead and I went down to the coast. And we were told we couldn't go to Playa de Salinas because the Peace Corps volunteers' local representative was going to be down there with his family. So we went to a place called Bajo Alto, which is south of Guayaquil. That was an experience. It was a black volcanic sand beach, beautiful beach, but there was nobody there but the three gringos. I can't even remember where we ate. There was a cantina there and there were feral hogs living on the beach, and they were all lined up out of the sun. Took a picture and sent it to my dad and said, yeah, it's true, only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noonday sun. Probably 10 hogs lying in the front of this cantina under the palm fronds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You travel to any other places in the Sierra?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, any place you went by bus was an adventure, and it was always by bus. Nobody. Airfares were expensive and they were hard to schedule with the weather. But a trip down the Pan-American Highway in a bus when it was a gravel road was an exciting trip. The busses, some were sort of suspect in terms of safety. But they got the job done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I understand you also took a trip to the Oriente, which is over the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, I've forgotten that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Over the Andes Mountains down into the beginning of the Amazon basin."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.296185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, any place you went by bus was an adventure, and it was always by bus. Nobody. Airfares were expensive and they were hard to schedule with the weather. But a trip down the Pan-American Highway in a bus when it was a gravel road was an exciting trip. The busses, some were sort of suspect in terms of safety. But they got the job done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I understand you also took a trip to the Oriente, which is over the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, I've forgotten that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Over the Andes Mountains down into the beginning of the Amazon basin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Stan and I did a preliminary road study looking to see if it was feasible to build a road. It was a road under construction called the [inaudible] road. This would have been from Cochapata to Tutupali. It was a two-day trip over the mountains. Then a couple of days into Tutupali. It was an adventure, to say the least. One of the classics was we went to a place where they made this moonshine whiskey. That was the high point I think. [inaudible] Squeeze the sugar cane and ferment the sugar cane and then distill it. It's still there. All pretty exciting for a gringo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So would you recommend the Peace Corps to young people now?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.884650000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, I've forgotten that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Over the Andes Mountains down into the beginning of the Amazon basin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Stan and I did a preliminary road study looking to see if it was feasible to build a road. It was a road under construction called the [inaudible] road. This would have been from Cochapata to Tutupali. It was a two-day trip over the mountains. Then a couple of days into Tutupali. It was an adventure, to say the least. One of the classics was we went to a place where they made this moonshine whiskey. That was the high point I think. [inaudible] Squeeze the sugar cane and ferment the sugar cane and then distill it. It's still there. All pretty exciting for a gringo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So would you recommend the Peace Corps to young people now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know what the Peace Corps is like now. I know it's changed quite a bit. I know most of the training is done in-country, whereas we were, we had a three-month training period between the University of Missouri at Columbia and Puerto Rico so that we were feet on the ground ready to go. And now they, as I say, they train in-country as I understand it. I can't say that I've honestly sent anybody to the Peace Corps as an adventure in their young lives or old lives. But the concept is still a valid one. I think we had more success than the State Department did in terms of getting projects done and acculturating with the people. We didn't live in a compound."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Was there anything else that you think you might want to add about your experience, anything that people might want to hear?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.538500000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Stan and I did a preliminary road study looking to see if it was feasible to build a road. It was a road under construction called the [inaudible] road. This would have been from Cochapata to Tutupali. It was a two-day trip over the mountains. Then a couple of days into Tutupali. It was an adventure, to say the least. One of the classics was we went to a place where they made this moonshine whiskey. That was the high point I think. [inaudible] Squeeze the sugar cane and ferment the sugar cane and then distill it. It's still there. All pretty exciting for a gringo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So would you recommend the Peace Corps to young people now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know what the Peace Corps is like now. I know it's changed quite a bit. I know most of the training is done in-country, whereas we were, we had a three-month training period between the University of Missouri at Columbia and Puerto Rico so that we were feet on the ground ready to go. And now they, as I say, they train in-country as I understand it. I can't say that I've honestly sent anybody to the Peace Corps as an adventure in their young lives or old lives. But the concept is still a valid one. I think we had more success than the State Department did in terms of getting projects done and acculturating with the people. We didn't live in a compound."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Was there anything else that you think you might want to add about your experience, anything that people might want to hear?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I'd say that the Peace Corps had a positive influence on my life, just from a standpoint of change in perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So one of the main reasons that you joined was there the military draft situation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.8500000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I'd say that the Peace Corps had a positive influence on my life, just from a standpoint of change in perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So one of the main reasons that you joined was there the military draft situation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had to do something about, that was mandatory draft for everybody then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had to do something with the military, which was why I had taken the Naval ROTC exam and Naval Officers Candidate School exam. But when I got home, the draft board was still sitting there waiting for me and they asked me what I was going to do. I told them I was going to be a graduate student at MIT and I had a kind of a low level teaching position there. And they said, go do that. So I did. But it was, the Peace Corps wasn't a substitute for the draft. You're still eligible for the draft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know several people that were drafted after they came home."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had to do something about, that was mandatory draft for everybody then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had to do something with the military, which was why I had taken the Naval ROTC exam and Naval Officers Candidate School exam. But when I got home, the draft board was still sitting there waiting for me and they asked me what I was going to do. I told them I was going to be a graduate student at MIT and I had a kind of a low level teaching position there. And they said, go do that. So I did. But it was, the Peace Corps wasn't a substitute for the draft. You're still eligible for the draft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know several people that were drafted after they came home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came home, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that happened."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had to do something with the military, which was why I had taken the Naval ROTC exam and Naval Officers Candidate School exam. But when I got home, the draft board was still sitting there waiting for me and they asked me what I was going to do. I told them I was going to be a graduate student at MIT and I had a kind of a low level teaching position there. And they said, go do that. So I did. But it was, the Peace Corps wasn't a substitute for the draft. You're still eligible for the draft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know several people that were drafted after they came home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came home, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was prepared for that. If I got drafted, I'd have gone into the Army. So maybe thought the Navy was a better choice. I had an older brother and a younger brother that had been in the Marine Corps. I didn't need to replicate those experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So either case of whether you were going into the military or the Peace Corps, it was still a form of service, you know, going back to the John F. Kennedy speech. What you can do for your country. So these two types of, two different types, completely different types of service, but it's still service."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00153:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came home, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was prepared for that. If I got drafted, I'd have gone into the Army. So maybe thought the Navy was a better choice. I had an older brother and a younger brother that had been in the Marine Corps. I didn't need to replicate those experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So either case of whether you were going into the military or the Peace Corps, it was still a form of service, you know, going back to the John F. Kennedy speech. What you can do for your country. So these two types of, two different types, completely different types of service, but it's still service."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I feel strongly about service to the country. I think the United States would be a lot better off if they did have mandatory service. I don't know what they'd do with all of the kids, what kind of service they'd find them. I mean, I think about the CCC and the WPA and the Roosevelt programs that were common during the Depression. The CCC was a great program. I still take advantage of their facilities, the national parks around the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, I think we're done."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00788:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.294781400000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I'm fairly gregarious anyway, so I like to hear other voices generally. I developed a whole picture and a whole image of these people who I'd never met before. Half of them I had never met before, and it was really strange to see them for the first time, some of them, in the TSUP when I went back about a month ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do they match?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Voices never match your expectations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's okay, they were there when you needed them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But that was kind of how the mood developed. In those days before the collision, I learned a little bit about the troubles they've had, especially with the fire. Vasily talked about it quite a bit, and Sasha. At some point Sasha explained to me -and he actually took me to where the fire occurred and showed me what he was doing and how the fire happened, and he gave me a long hour's description of everything that happened during the fire. It was very amusing. We were enjoying it. It was a good story, with serious undertones. But he wasn't making a big deal out of this; he was telling me a story, because I wanted to learn.\\n\\n And other times Vasily would talk about the near miss of the Progress docking, that Jerry has since then talked about a lot in the press, as being a near miss, and it was. A very close call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've mentioned the collision a couple of times."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00788:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.438646000000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Voices never match your expectations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's okay, they were there when you needed them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But that was kind of how the mood developed. In those days before the collision, I learned a little bit about the troubles they've had, especially with the fire. Vasily talked about it quite a bit, and Sasha. At some point Sasha explained to me -and he actually took me to where the fire occurred and showed me what he was doing and how the fire happened, and he gave me a long hour's description of everything that happened during the fire. It was very amusing. We were enjoying it. It was a good story, with serious undertones. But he wasn't making a big deal out of this; he was telling me a story, because I wanted to learn.\\n\\n And other times Vasily would talk about the near miss of the Progress docking, that Jerry has since then talked about a lot in the press, as being a near miss, and it was. A very close call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've mentioned the collision a couple of times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The collision demarcates everything for my flight, not because of the terribleness of the collision; because it changed the whole condition of the station and the environment in which we worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what we'd like for you to talk about, because it's been called the worst collision in the history of human space flight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00788:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 38, "return_to_go": 46.04294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But that was kind of how the mood developed. In those days before the collision, I learned a little bit about the troubles they've had, especially with the fire. Vasily talked about it quite a bit, and Sasha. At some point Sasha explained to me -and he actually took me to where the fire occurred and showed me what he was doing and how the fire happened, and he gave me a long hour's description of everything that happened during the fire. It was very amusing. We were enjoying it. It was a good story, with serious undertones. But he wasn't making a big deal out of this; he was telling me a story, because I wanted to learn.\\n\\n And other times Vasily would talk about the near miss of the Progress docking, that Jerry has since then talked about a lot in the press, as being a near miss, and it was. A very close call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've mentioned the collision a couple of times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The collision demarcates everything for my flight, not because of the terribleness of the collision; because it changed the whole condition of the station and the environment in which we worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what we'd like for you to talk about, because it's been called the worst collision in the history of human space flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure that's true. (laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who better to know that. You've explained to us how relaxed you were when you went up there. Did it {the collision} change everything about the flight for you as well, your attitude? Did you feel differently than you had six weeks prior, when you boarded?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00788:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 6.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who have you talked to already?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have tried to talk to all the chairs of the working groups."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What other astronauts?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're our first one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm the first one. I'm sorry, I keep assuming you've spoken to Jerry and Shannon. It's not like the media. See, if you're like the media, you've already spoken to these people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, scheduling has been quite an adventure for us, and we are scheduled to speak with Shannon Lucid tomorrow."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00788:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What other astronauts?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're our first one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm the first one. I'm sorry, I keep assuming you've spoken to Jerry and Shannon. It's not like the media. See, if you're like the media, you've already spoken to these people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, scheduling has been quite an adventure for us, and we are scheduled to speak with Shannon Lucid tomorrow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Good. Good. Certainly use the framework of--another thing you should remember is that my flight represents a totally off-normal flight. I didn't really experience the routine of science on orbit for more than about five weeks, and after that, there was nothing standard about my flight. Totally unexpected, unplanned for.\\n\\n Shannon had a very, I think, classic stay on board an orbiting station, and I think starting with Jerry, it all started to go to rot. Then David actually basically had a pretty much standard tour of duty. At least half of it was. I think Andy [Thomas] finally has had a pretty clean flight. I just spoke to him this morning, and he believes that his increment probably was, next to Shannon's, the most benign."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. Enjoy your vacation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.08801157762175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I am a farm boy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up on a small farm in Missouri, not much more than just a couple of acres with some hogs and some trees. No tropical fruit trees, though, if you can imagine. We did have some apple trees and apricot, I believe. But so in the Peace Corps, I really did have to learn a lot about tropical fruits, even though I had grown up on a farm and had a degree actually in agriculture as well. So it was quite different. And something that we learned was to graft trees, citrus trees in particular. So that was something new for me as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what kind of Peace Corps training did you have? Where was it and what was the training like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, so our training was in-country, the three months of training, at a little town called Jocotenango on the outskirts of Antigua, Guatemala, which is a colonial city well known for its quaintness and just beautiful architecture and the ruins there, and somewhat of a touristy town. So we had a training center just outside of town there, and we did, in the compound we did some training. But then we also traveled out to different, generally Ministry of Agriculture places, where they had farms and training centers and other things that we could actually do, practice on the grafting techniques and planting and doing the charlas about how to move into more crop diversification. So it was, it was a very good technical training, certainly building on my background in agriculture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the other volunteers in your group also agriculturalists?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 29.108048531934067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was my first real lesson in market driven economics, which I had studied in school, of course, but it sounded like a great idea to produce lots of new fruits for the market. But the fact was that there wasn't really a market there. And I don't think anybody had really studied the market to understand whether or not that would be feasible. So there's a lot of production that maybe didn't find a market. Nonetheless, I think families would generally eat some of the produce that they had, the fruits that they produced, particularly we even got into papaya, which is very nutritious. And we also did some coffee at higher elevations where the coffee was adaptable. Guatemala does have a pretty good coffee production."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were able to integrate into the market pretty well there. And at the lower altitudes, I worked with cacao, cacao for chocolate, so that also had somewhat of a market."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has that changed in Peace Corps now, do you think? Are there more market driven approaches introduced?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I hope so. And I think so. I think that's one thing that just gets better about Peace Corps is the programing. I think it certainly for me was, like I said, a practical lesson in you have to look at the value chain from the beginning, production all the way through to the final consumer, and make sure that what you're doing is going to be supported by a demand system there so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work at all with AID or with other development agencies when you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.277798562018383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably so. I think there was a long pause there. And but she's a pretty adventurous person herself, grew up on a farm also in Minnesota. And was also a very altruistic person, I think, and had chosen a health profession, health care profession."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she was a nurse to start out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was a nurse, getting a nursing degree. So I think it was born out of a spirit of adventurism, a sense of wanting to do something that made a difference in the world. And the fact that I had some skills that I thought could be useful. And I said, if I can, if I can see one or two countries out of joining the Peace Corps, that's a good start. And if I can start making a difference in a small way, that's, you know, that's a great start too. Little did I know what it would lead to at the time though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we'll get to that later. So you applied for the Peace Corps. Did they immediately offer you Guatemala or was there another assignment you turned down? I didn't realize people turned down assignments. We just took the one we got."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apparently people turned down assignments."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 15.86422062446487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was a nurse, getting a nursing degree. So I think it was born out of a spirit of adventurism, a sense of wanting to do something that made a difference in the world. And the fact that I had some skills that I thought could be useful. And I said, if I can, if I can see one or two countries out of joining the Peace Corps, that's a good start. And if I can start making a difference in a small way, that's, you know, that's a great start too. Little did I know what it would lead to at the time though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we'll get to that later. So you applied for the Peace Corps. Did they immediately offer you Guatemala or was there another assignment you turned down? I didn't realize people turned down assignments. We just took the one we got."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apparently people turned down assignments."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did not have the chance to turn down an assignment. I don't think I would have, but I think our experience was unique, but probably not that unique to others at the time. I think for us we had about a 28 page application maybe, and lots of forms that had to be filled out and a series of interviews. And at one time I think we were almost ready to throw in the towel and say, OK, well, this isn't going to work. Because we had about four or five different recruiters as they transitioned in and out and just really couldn't seem to make any progress. But I think the persistence is one thing that obviously we need to have in the Peace Corps. So we continued to be persistent and insistent and really just put our minds to it. And the first nomination was for Lesotho for me to teach at a university, and then they said, we'll find an assignment for Kathy, your wife. And so we said, that sounds good. And I accepted. And meanwhile we graduated from our program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were still in college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.517178211347156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seeing the country. And about halfway there we called in to see how things were doing and they said, oh, by the way, your program was canceled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we pretty much started over then on the placement process and a few weeks later they called. Back then you had to call them or they called you and there were no cell phones or emails or anything. So we were then offered two options that they said they'll do everything they can to make sure we can both get in the program, though they only had a placement for one of us. And one was The Gambia and one was Guatemala, and we knew nothing about either of them. So we quickly again whipped out our encyclopedias at the time and anything else we could find and started reading up on whether we wanted to go swim with hippos or go in the jungles with the guerillas that are carrying guns down in Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I was going to ask about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a civil war going on in Guatemala at the time. And the guerrilla conflict throughout, particularly the central highlands and the western highlands was pretty intense. Nonetheless, it seemed like a fascinating place, a fascinating culture, and opportunity to learn, learn a language in Spanish. And we really didn't struggle much over it, but we opted for Guatemala and it turned out to be a great choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did the war affect you when you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.51503482882365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a civil war going on in Guatemala at the time. And the guerrilla conflict throughout, particularly the central highlands and the western highlands was pretty intense. Nonetheless, it seemed like a fascinating place, a fascinating culture, and opportunity to learn, learn a language in Spanish. And we really didn't struggle much over it, but we opted for Guatemala and it turned out to be a great choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did the war affect you when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not directly, I would say. I would say the fact is the conflict at the time had receded from our area. And so what we saw was the effect of the conflict. Like I said, a lot of orphans and a lot of widows. There were two huge orphanages in our community run by missionaries, and each of them probably had three or 400 kids in them. So out of a very small village, to have that number of orphans is significant. And the stories that people were telling us were pretty intense in terms of even just a couple, three years before that, there had been a massacre in the community at the local fair. There apparently was a confrontation between the guerrillas and the army. And just a bunch of, just a bunch of people just got shot really badly and killed. And there were still mass graves in that area, and they're still discovering mass graves in that area to this day.\n\nSo it was a pretty difficult time as a newcomer to that community to integrate into the community, because there was just simply a lot of fear and a lot of, uh, a lot of suspicion of anyone really that was there. And so it took, I think, a lot longer for us to gain the confidence of even our neighbors and then the farmers and others. And villages that were further away up into the hills, almost sometimes impossible to even to be able to get entry into the villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in the eastern highlands?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Central highlands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Central highlands, and that's where the war had really been?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.981524480029197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Central highlands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Central highlands, and that's where the war had really been?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So the war was still going on in other parts of the country and it would continue even for several years after we were there. But it had receded in this area. But nonetheless, every so often we would see movements and we would see, we actually were stopped once by the guerrillas. And of course, the military was very, very prevalent around this area. And but I would say I don't think we ever felt insecure. I don't think that we ever felt that our lives were in danger. You know, it's a part of the approach, of course, is community acceptance. And we were well accepted by our community. And if there were any, you know, potential threats, I think our community was there to take care of us and make sure nothing happened to us and looking out for us. Even though at the same time, I think a lot of times they were kind of wondering, you know, who's, where are these guys coming from and who are they? And do they actually eat children? That sort of a thing, you know, that was kind of a common myth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that because you were just from the outside or because you were American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just because we were outsiders."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there wasn't anti Americanism because of the war?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.548992328454666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were army?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But like I said, we would occasionally cross paths with a guerrilla in the other villages. And one time they stopped a bus that we were on and collected a tax from us. But otherwise it was more just something that you did not generally see them. The conflict was far enough away from our area that there was no fighting going on there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I'm just amazed to hear that Peace Corps Washington had people in Guatemala during a war."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in retrospect, I'm kind of thinking that too, you know, because there was a very active conflict going on. Nonetheless, the areas of conflict were off-limits to us. Of course, our village happened to be, I think, on the margin of that. So I think probably they felt that, certainly at the time they felt it was safe. And again, like I said, we felt it was as well. So it was just on the, you know, was on the heels of some pretty serious conflict there. So again, the, never felt threatened from that myself but from, more from the common, uh, the common delinquency. It's really what I think we would have been afraid of. I did get actually held up at gunpoint once on a bus in the city and that sort of thing was actually quite common, getting your pocket picked in town, even one of the smaller towns, that wouldn't be unheard of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why was that going on? Because of the war?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.276658142727406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But like I said, we would occasionally cross paths with a guerrilla in the other villages. And one time they stopped a bus that we were on and collected a tax from us. But otherwise it was more just something that you did not generally see them. The conflict was far enough away from our area that there was no fighting going on there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I'm just amazed to hear that Peace Corps Washington had people in Guatemala during a war."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in retrospect, I'm kind of thinking that too, you know, because there was a very active conflict going on. Nonetheless, the areas of conflict were off-limits to us. Of course, our village happened to be, I think, on the margin of that. So I think probably they felt that, certainly at the time they felt it was safe. And again, like I said, we felt it was as well. So it was just on the, you know, was on the heels of some pretty serious conflict there. So again, the, never felt threatened from that myself but from, more from the common, uh, the common delinquency. It's really what I think we would have been afraid of. I did get actually held up at gunpoint once on a bus in the city and that sort of thing was actually quite common, getting your pocket picked in town, even one of the smaller towns, that wouldn't be unheard of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why was that going on? Because of the war?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just because the economy was so bad, there was so much poverty and people were willing to do whatever. So delinquency was very common, I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk a little bit more about the town, the first town, as well as the second town you stayed in. What were, how big were these towns? What was going on there besides delinquency?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.045256966330133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just because the economy was so bad, there was so much poverty and people were willing to do whatever. So delinquency was very common, I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk a little bit more about the town, the first town, as well as the second town you stayed in. What were, how big were these towns? What was going on there besides delinquency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the two towns were very distinct, and I tend to focus more on the second one where we were the longest, than the first one. But the first one, Morales Izabal on the eastern coast, was actually two towns. It was Morales and Bananera. And Bananera meaning the banana place basically. And this was where Del Monte had established huge plantations of banana production. And so an interesting place. The interesting thing about this was there was a relatively thriving economy because individuals there had been able to work on the banana farms and make relatively decent wages and have good Social Security programs and the like. And so there was a pretty thriving community there. This was a relatively large community between Morales and Bananera, I would guess probably around 20,000 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that is big."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I found myself really getting far, far away from those areas as I could and hopping on a bus and going 20, 30 minutes, sometimes even an hour away, to work in villages further away where they weren't part of the plantation, and maybe that they weren't directly benefiting from it. So but life there was interesting because there was a huge walled compound with nice houses and swimming pools and everything else behind it where all the executives came and lived. And there was a nice little airport there that they flew in on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The executives being Americans or Guatemalans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.262241984956761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just generally it would be drunken brawls and people would get drunk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there the economy was decent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And pull out their machetes and just start cutting each other up. It was, it was so much almost kind of part of the culture that it was, it wasn't really even scary. But nonetheless, uh, and a large part of the population there kind of were like cowboys. They maybe even had, you know, cattle ranches and the like. And so they carried guns. And, you know, again, if they had too much to drink, they became dangerous. So that, that was interesting. And actually, I think there were volunteers who actually were at one time, I know one for sure, that was shot, another that was macheted pretty bad. But generally we were able to steer clear of that sort of a confrontation. So"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was the first town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the first site. And my wife didn't really like it there because the machismo too, everywhere you went, even with me. Hey, baby, how are you doing? You know, and so it was, uh, it was challenging, but we have good friends still from there. And we really bonded with some locals and including basically an adopted little girl that kind of is still part of our lives really to this day that was our neighbor. And so that was very positive in that sense. But because neither of the ministries that we worked with really wanted us there and just they pretty much told us that, we just decided that it was best to go somewhere where we could actually be productive in our work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was you, not the Peace Corps, that decided?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.115558278404334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We asked for the, yeah, we asked for the transfer. And so they picked this new site which our APCD told us, look, nobody's been here since the war."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's APCD?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Associate Peace Corps Director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He chose this site and said it's got good potential for our program. But no volunteers have been here for years and you'll be the first ones in there. And so it, it was very quaint, very dry, as opposed to the tropical area we'd been in. Had a rainy season of about three or four months where there was a cultivation period. Nice, beautiful valley with mountains around on all sides. And the indigenous culture there of Achi, which is the typical dress there, the women wear a woven fabric that is very distinct from any other place in the country and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you see the Guatemalan embroidery, is that from there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.019207751116461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He chose this site and said it's got good potential for our program. But no volunteers have been here for years and you'll be the first ones in there. And so it, it was very quaint, very dry, as opposed to the tropical area we'd been in. Had a rainy season of about three or four months where there was a cultivation period. Nice, beautiful valley with mountains around on all sides. And the indigenous culture there of Achi, which is the typical dress there, the women wear a woven fabric that is very distinct from any other place in the country and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you see the Guatemalan embroidery, is that from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I would recognize somebody from that village very clearly. Some of the other villages, too, I could recognize around the country. But our village was very, very specifically a distinct design that's from that area. So it was very different in terms of the culture, of course, being almost an entirely indigenous culture. The four or five wealthy families in the village were all Latinos, um, mestizos, I guess they would say. And they ran the businesses basically and had the larger farms. And we were about ten or 12 kilometers from Salama, which is a larger, a larger city where there was a nice little donut shop that we could go and meet up with other volunteers and enjoy, you know, a nice tea and coffee or donuts and get some newspapers, English language newspapers even."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was our refuge, I guess you'd say. But the community itself was very nice. We lived in a little mud hut that had actually at one time been the house for the generator for the missionaries across the street. So they had had their huge generator engine in this building. And it had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was electricity?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.132453056796068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I would recognize somebody from that village very clearly. Some of the other villages, too, I could recognize around the country. But our village was very, very specifically a distinct design that's from that area. So it was very different in terms of the culture, of course, being almost an entirely indigenous culture. The four or five wealthy families in the village were all Latinos, um, mestizos, I guess they would say. And they ran the businesses basically and had the larger farms. And we were about ten or 12 kilometers from Salama, which is a larger, a larger city where there was a nice little donut shop that we could go and meet up with other volunteers and enjoy, you know, a nice tea and coffee or donuts and get some newspapers, English language newspapers even."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was our refuge, I guess you'd say. But the community itself was very nice. We lived in a little mud hut that had actually at one time been the house for the generator for the missionaries across the street. So they had had their huge generator engine in this building. And it had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn't. Yeah, at that time. Yeah. Before there had not been, that's why they had the generator and once the electricity came to the town, then they moved the generator out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you moved in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.74376920592107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn't. Yeah, at that time. Yeah. Before there had not been, that's why they had the generator and once the electricity came to the town, then they moved the generator out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you moved in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It then belonged to a woman, a local woman living in town. Had a dirt floor, fortunately had an indoor bathroom with a flush toilet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but it was, that was, it was comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a much, much better environment to do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.270854673245633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It then belonged to a woman, a local woman living in town. Had a dirt floor, fortunately had an indoor bathroom with a flush toilet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but it was, that was, it was comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a much, much better environment to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much better environment. And I think we felt much more comfortable there because the people really readily accepted us and welcomed us and invited us to their events. And we just started making great friends. And it was, uh, it was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they as traumatized by war as the other? Oh, you talked about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.96761630360626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but it was, that was, it was comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a much, much better environment to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much better environment. And I think we felt much more comfortable there because the people really readily accepted us and welcomed us and invited us to their events. And we just started making great friends. And it was, uh, it was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they as traumatized by war as the other? Oh, you talked about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, yeah. They were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's just a different culture."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.852907004006955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much better environment. And I think we felt much more comfortable there because the people really readily accepted us and welcomed us and invited us to their events. And we just started making great friends. And it was, uh, it was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they as traumatized by war as the other? Oh, you talked about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, yeah. They were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's just a different culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was still something that was part of their lives almost. And they still, you know, they were still wary of even though the conflict had moved out of that area. But it did affect them still very much. And of course, like I said, lots of widows and orphans there in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when while you were in the Peace Corps, did you travel in Guatemala to other places or in Central America as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.947674448896617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, yeah. They were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's just a different culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was still something that was part of their lives almost. And they still, you know, they were still wary of even though the conflict had moved out of that area. But it did affect them still very much. And of course, like I said, lots of widows and orphans there in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when while you were in the Peace Corps, did you travel in Guatemala to other places or in Central America as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there vacation time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.16408272099624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was still something that was part of their lives almost. And they still, you know, they were still wary of even though the conflict had moved out of that area. But it did affect them still very much. And of course, like I said, lots of widows and orphans there in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when while you were in the Peace Corps, did you travel in Guatemala to other places or in Central America as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there vacation time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, remember, I did want to see the world. And once I got to Guatemala, I realized that there were some other countries pretty close by. First, we did travel quite a bit on our vacation time around the country. So we saw most of the country, which is just, takes a long time to see such a beautiful place like Guatemala has so many different things from the lakes on the western side of the country. Lake Atitlán, of course, nestled in among those volcanoes and then visiting each of those villages in itself is so fascinating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The all of the ruins."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.412447803699058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, remember, I did want to see the world. And once I got to Guatemala, I realized that there were some other countries pretty close by. First, we did travel quite a bit on our vacation time around the country. So we saw most of the country, which is just, takes a long time to see such a beautiful place like Guatemala has so many different things from the lakes on the western side of the country. Lake Atitlán, of course, nestled in among those volcanoes and then visiting each of those villages in itself is so fascinating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The all of the ruins."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ruins up north in Petén, the eastern coast and Rio Dulce. And there's just, there's so much to see there. And so though we were what we would call site rats, we spent most of our time in the site and only really came into Guatemala City when we needed to. We did travel to visit other volunteers in our group. And then a couple of times we traveled outside of the country. We did a whole circuit of the Mayan ruins through the Yucatan of, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mexico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mexico, through Guatemala. So what they call the Ruta Maya, the Mayan route, which was about a four or five day trip on bus to see all the ruins that are part of that circuit. Ended up in Belize and spending four or five days there in Belize just on the beaches, yeah, on the cayes. Another trip then we went to Costa Rica and Honduras and I think we did El Salvador. At the time it was off limits to Peace Corps volunteers. But I think we went there just very briefly to get a taste of that as well. So then we had the opportunity to travel enough around Central America to see a good part of the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk a little bit about what happened when you came back. What was reentry like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 14.902719781887841, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ruins up north in Petén, the eastern coast and Rio Dulce. And there's just, there's so much to see there. And so though we were what we would call site rats, we spent most of our time in the site and only really came into Guatemala City when we needed to. We did travel to visit other volunteers in our group. And then a couple of times we traveled outside of the country. We did a whole circuit of the Mayan ruins through the Yucatan of, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mexico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mexico, through Guatemala. So what they call the Ruta Maya, the Mayan route, which was about a four or five day trip on bus to see all the ruins that are part of that circuit. Ended up in Belize and spending four or five days there in Belize just on the beaches, yeah, on the cayes. Another trip then we went to Costa Rica and Honduras and I think we did El Salvador. At the time it was off limits to Peace Corps volunteers. But I think we went there just very briefly to get a taste of that as well. So then we had the opportunity to travel enough around Central America to see a good part of the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk a little bit about what happened when you came back. What was reentry like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So reentry was, I would say, kind of gradual for us because we had the opportunity to stay in Guatemala after our Peace Corps service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, to do what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.575857006382929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it would not be a complicated, if you will, project and they've already done all their work and everything. And they said, well, will you help us devise a proposal and go with us to help pitch this proposal to the right people? And I said certainly, so when they said they had already raised basically a third of the cost in cash for the project and were willing to put in additional labor and other things as well. Then I said, I think you've got something going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, definitely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, this is something that obviously you worked on for years and tried to, they'd been raising funds for ten years or so, 20 years maybe, quite a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did that come from? From the mayor or just the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was their own money. They had raised it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but who organized this, the mayor or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.060160502582894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The, no, this community didn't even have a mayor. They had like a sub-mayor maybe. And so there was a group that had formed called like the Committee on Electrification or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we went into the capital together a number of times, probably all told 15, 20 times, and met with a number of people. And we finally found a receptive person at the Ministry of, uh, in Guatemala City that was responsible for electrification. And he said, well, if you can find other resources, we'll put in $100,000 worth of our contribution, which is basically coming out and helping do the work and putting up the poles and stringing the cables and everything and putting in the transformers. We said, OK, so we've got $100,000 here and we've got $100,000 here. So I went to USAID and I said, I've got a great project and I've got two thirds of the resources already available. The community has done their work. The government is willing to do their effort. Would you be willing to put in a third?\n\nAnd for USAID, and I didn't know this at the time, but that's slush fund money, $100,000. And so they basically didn't even have to put any money into it. They simply agreed to ask one of their implementers, which was the National Rural Electric Cooperative, to put that into it. And so it was a very small grant that they made to us. And so we formed essentially a public private partnership, which I didn't know what that meant at the time, but that's what it became. And I had a great project that brought electricity to about 40 families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fantastic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably around 200 or 300 persons, and really vitalize that community from that point on and uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they pay you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.95573389175877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we went into the capital together a number of times, probably all told 15, 20 times, and met with a number of people. And we finally found a receptive person at the Ministry of, uh, in Guatemala City that was responsible for electrification. And he said, well, if you can find other resources, we'll put in $100,000 worth of our contribution, which is basically coming out and helping do the work and putting up the poles and stringing the cables and everything and putting in the transformers. We said, OK, so we've got $100,000 here and we've got $100,000 here. So I went to USAID and I said, I've got a great project and I've got two thirds of the resources already available. The community has done their work. The government is willing to do their effort. Would you be willing to put in a third?\n\nAnd for USAID, and I didn't know this at the time, but that's slush fund money, $100,000. And so they basically didn't even have to put any money into it. They simply agreed to ask one of their implementers, which was the National Rural Electric Cooperative, to put that into it. And so it was a very small grant that they made to us. And so we formed essentially a public private partnership, which I didn't know what that meant at the time, but that's what it became. And I had a great project that brought electricity to about 40 families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fantastic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably around 200 or 300 persons, and really vitalize that community from that point on and uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they pay you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was all volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.950815435287522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably around 200 or 300 persons, and really vitalize that community from that point on and uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they pay you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was all volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is in your third year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.945350483652803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was all volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is in your third year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is in my third year of being in Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, this is in your third year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.167099362534323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is in my third year of being in Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, this is in your third year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is my third year of being a Peace Corps volunteer. And so really, it was kind of a I guess you would say, the culmination of my time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fantastic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had the inauguration and I think I COSed [close of service] probably a month after that. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your wife continued being a nurse?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.407888180593693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is my third year of being a Peace Corps volunteer. And so really, it was kind of a I guess you would say, the culmination of my time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fantastic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had the inauguration and I think I COSed [close of service] probably a month after that. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your wife continued being a nurse?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She continued in the health program there, which had gone very well for her as well too. So we had a very positive experience in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you stayed after Peace Corps as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.786542422881881, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had the inauguration and I think I COSed [close of service] probably a month after that. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your wife continued being a nurse?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She continued in the health program there, which had gone very well for her as well too. So we had a very positive experience in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you stayed after Peace Corps as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So that's another story in itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so what did you do after Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.933528700798192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I want to mention, though, once I came back to the village, because we kept coming back to our village to visit. And one of the next volunteers came through town and he said, oh you're Glen? He said, Don Glen de las Luces. And I said, well, I guess. He said, around here they call you Don Glen de las Luces, which means Mr. Glen of the Lights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He said, because you brought lights to Santa Dolores, this community out there. So I said, OK, that's funny. He said, you set the bar pretty high for the rest of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's probably the best title you've had."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.58897835817435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Take them to their homes, one in Guatemala City, or one stop in Quetzaltenango on the other side of the country, one in Guatemala City, and make a kind of roundabout."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a shuttle bus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then, yeah, then we started getting a lot of surgeons from the U.S. and dentists and others coming in and on short term. And so I would go in and pick them up and bring them out of medical supplies. So it was a six hour or seven hour drive or a 40 minute flight, basically. So that was, that was a highlight for me because then I did actually do a little bit more flying and was able to take what I learned in the Peace Corps, which is pretty much everything I knew, was learned in the Peace Corps. And I said, well, we're just going to do it here. And so we started setting up a model farm with soil conservation techniques, live and dead barriers, and intercropping and the things that I'd learned in, green manures and all these techniques that were being promoted in the Peace Corps. And then we brought in some appropriate technologies like hand pumps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And fuel efficient woodstoves and a number of different things. And we just pretty much created a teaching farm, a model teaching farm there. And the farmers would come in on a crop share basis, which was very common in the area. And in return for them adapting one of the technologies that we were promoting, like green manures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is green?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.307380689104136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And fuel efficient woodstoves and a number of different things. And we just pretty much created a teaching farm, a model teaching farm there. And the farmers would come in on a crop share basis, which was very common in the area. And in return for them adapting one of the technologies that we were promoting, like green manures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is green?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Green manure is where you use cover crop, basically, which is a nitrogen fixating bean generally is what it would be, legume, to either cover the ground and control the weeds and then you incorporate it into the soil and it provides nitrogen back into the soil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And organic matter, because most farmers just farm corn and corn and corn and corn. Maybe some beans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't put the nitrogen back in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.897089654560151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Green manure is where you use cover crop, basically, which is a nitrogen fixating bean generally is what it would be, legume, to either cover the ground and control the weeds and then you incorporate it into the soil and it provides nitrogen back into the soil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And organic matter, because most farmers just farm corn and corn and corn and corn. Maybe some beans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't put the nitrogen back in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, did not. So it was nitrogen depleted. And so and then it was eroding also. So the legumes that we were working with fixated nitrogen and then also helped control erosion. So they would adapt that technology and in return they would get their crop, all of it rather than split it, which is the normal way that you would crop share there. They would get it. So that was the condition of them farming on the land was to adopt a technology and then teach other farmers about it. And so they would have their own demonstrations and they would bring farmers in from their villages and say, here's what we're doing here, we should try this in our own villages. And it worked out very well. We had, I hired a very young staff of young, enthusiastic extension agents. And it had when I left, I think about 30 people working there and all just taking all these things and bringing in people. We had huge field days and activities to teach these new techniques that were very well accepted. So they went over very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.552321838400168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And organic matter, because most farmers just farm corn and corn and corn and corn. Maybe some beans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't put the nitrogen back in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, did not. So it was nitrogen depleted. And so and then it was eroding also. So the legumes that we were working with fixated nitrogen and then also helped control erosion. So they would adapt that technology and in return they would get their crop, all of it rather than split it, which is the normal way that you would crop share there. They would get it. So that was the condition of them farming on the land was to adopt a technology and then teach other farmers about it. And so they would have their own demonstrations and they would bring farmers in from their villages and say, here's what we're doing here, we should try this in our own villages. And it worked out very well. We had, I hired a very young staff of young, enthusiastic extension agents. And it had when I left, I think about 30 people working there and all just taking all these things and bringing in people. We had huge field days and activities to teach these new techniques that were very well accepted. So they went over very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another three years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.39146870933352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, did not. So it was nitrogen depleted. And so and then it was eroding also. So the legumes that we were working with fixated nitrogen and then also helped control erosion. So they would adapt that technology and in return they would get their crop, all of it rather than split it, which is the normal way that you would crop share there. They would get it. So that was the condition of them farming on the land was to adopt a technology and then teach other farmers about it. And so they would have their own demonstrations and they would bring farmers in from their villages and say, here's what we're doing here, we should try this in our own villages. And it worked out very well. We had, I hired a very young staff of young, enthusiastic extension agents. And it had when I left, I think about 30 people working there and all just taking all these things and bringing in people. We had huge field days and activities to teach these new techniques that were very well accepted. So they went over very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another three years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So six years in Guatemala?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.918338421582327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, it was three and a half years and Peace Corps was three and a half years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So seven."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were in Guatemala seven years total. And during that time my son was born in Guatemala, about the second year of our work there in this organization. That was a relatively very traumatic experience actually. The issue very briefly was that we were in a small hospital in Guatemala City and that evening there was a conflict in Guatemala City between the guerrilla and the military units. And somewhere out just outside of the city, the major electrical link or transformer or something for the city was destroyed. And so electricity was knocked out in the entire city. And this happened about 3 minutes after my son was delivered by Caesarean section."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so he was fortunately okay, no need for any incubators, because the hospital had no backup generator, nothing at all. And so it was pitch dark and somebody had a penlight in their pocket like this and pulled it out. And that's what they used to finish the process and clean up and sew up and go into recovery. And all of this in the dark basically. And so it was not the type of experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were really lucky."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.90926491286925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were in Guatemala seven years total. And during that time my son was born in Guatemala, about the second year of our work there in this organization. That was a relatively very traumatic experience actually. The issue very briefly was that we were in a small hospital in Guatemala City and that evening there was a conflict in Guatemala City between the guerrilla and the military units. And somewhere out just outside of the city, the major electrical link or transformer or something for the city was destroyed. And so electricity was knocked out in the entire city. And this happened about 3 minutes after my son was delivered by Caesarean section."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so he was fortunately okay, no need for any incubators, because the hospital had no backup generator, nothing at all. And so it was pitch dark and somebody had a penlight in their pocket like this and pulled it out. And that's what they used to finish the process and clean up and sew up and go into recovery. And all of this in the dark basically. And so it was not the type of experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were really lucky."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, not the type of experience we wanted to repeat. So we decided it was probably time to get back to the U.S. if we're going to continue having a family where my daughter was born then a year later in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the States."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.121405458743613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so he was fortunately okay, no need for any incubators, because the hospital had no backup generator, nothing at all. And so it was pitch dark and somebody had a penlight in their pocket like this and pulled it out. And that's what they used to finish the process and clean up and sew up and go into recovery. And all of this in the dark basically. And so it was not the type of experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were really lucky."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, not the type of experience we wanted to repeat. So we decided it was probably time to get back to the U.S. if we're going to continue having a family where my daughter was born then a year later in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the States, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So that's quite a, seven years in country. And you are now director of the National Peace Corps Association. So what happened between seven years in Guatemala to becoming director of the Peace Corps Association? Did you stay in international development activities and how did you end up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.468228287492902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, not the type of experience we wanted to repeat. So we decided it was probably time to get back to the U.S. if we're going to continue having a family where my daughter was born then a year later in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the States, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So that's quite a, seven years in country. And you are now director of the National Peace Corps Association. So what happened between seven years in Guatemala to becoming director of the Peace Corps Association? Did you stay in international development activities and how did you end up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in brief, it was, it was just a very rewarding and exciting career in international development, most of it overseas. I think that experience, of course, told me the place I want to be is out in the field and doing things with the farmers and others that I could work with. And so after moving back to the U.S. and being in the United States for a couple of years, at which time I started working with an NGO based in Washington, D.C., that again very. I would say along the way through my career, just I've been very blessed to have opportunities that I didn't expect and doors open to me that I wasn't even really looking for. And they just happened to open themselves and I was visiting my parents and happened to open up the newspaper and saw a job. I said, that sounds great. Recruiting volunteers to go overseas on international assignments and based right in Missouri."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.631364763881002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the States, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So that's quite a, seven years in country. And you are now director of the National Peace Corps Association. So what happened between seven years in Guatemala to becoming director of the Peace Corps Association? Did you stay in international development activities and how did you end up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in brief, it was, it was just a very rewarding and exciting career in international development, most of it overseas. I think that experience, of course, told me the place I want to be is out in the field and doing things with the farmers and others that I could work with. And so after moving back to the U.S. and being in the United States for a couple of years, at which time I started working with an NGO based in Washington, D.C., that again very. I would say along the way through my career, just I've been very blessed to have opportunities that I didn't expect and doors open to me that I wasn't even really looking for. And they just happened to open themselves and I was visiting my parents and happened to open up the newspaper and saw a job. I said, that sounds great. Recruiting volunteers to go overseas on international assignments and based right in Missouri."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this was for, uh, this organization, an NGO called, at the time it was called VOCA, Volunteers in Overseas Cooperative Assistance. And they recruited volunteers from all over the United States for short term work, generally about a month, and primarily for a program they called Formative Farmer. So even more so, it was just right up my alley. It was agricultural work on USAID projects overseas. And so I started recruiting volunteers and that was for me a great way to meet people because I was recruiting co-operative managers and business owners and extension agents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you actually knew all of that by then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.808556900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was just simply because we built on our history of being in the country for over 35 years and the fact that there was opportunity for us to play a major role in USAID's priorities there. And so we were able to be part of some pretty large projects that they were implementing in different parts of the country. So ultimately, I had to move from Santa Cruz to La Paz, which was great. I enjoyed La Paz as well. So four years in Santa Cruz in the eastern part and then six years in La Paz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your kids grew up in Bolivia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my kids pretty much grew up in Bolivia between those two places, yeah. And they speak fluent Spanish, a little bit of local dialect as well. And in many ways consider that their home. Um, so that was all primarily agricultural work early on in the farmer to farmer program and in the work we were doing with volunteers. Then it moved more to be community development because we were doing social and productive infrastructure with USAID in this one particular area, which is a very fascinating area of Bolivia, where they have the coca production that's the legal produced coke, coca."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For cocaine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For cocaine. But it also is where the world's most dangerous road is. I don't know if you've heard of this in Bolivia, but it is a harrowing drive down and back into this valley. At the time it was, there's a new road now, but it involved driving on roads that were just barely wide enough for one vehicle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you met another one coming."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.329000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess, the imagination to some extent of the volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the ability to deal with ambiguity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Yeah. And the whole way I'm learning all kinds of things. So I never quit learning at all. And so quite often felt I was in over my head but somehow learned what I needed to learn. And again, it all goes back again to things you pick up in the Peace Corps about the tolerance of ambiguity, the ability to innovate and figure things out on your own, and the ability to listen well, I think, to community members and others, and to just be, just really be persistent in what you're trying to accomplish. And so it all really just happened because of my Peace Corps experience. And I think it was better because of the Peace Corps as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's, for the last few minutes of the interview, talk about your current position as director of the National Peace Corps Association. How does all of your experience over these years bring you to this job? And how do you, what is it that the association does and how do you instill that spirit in your work now?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00030:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Soft power, yeah. And so our vision is to see the Peace Corps double, at least to double. And so we're set our sights on a really enhanced advocacy strategy that brings that about. And I'm very confident we're going to make it happen. We're going to work with whatever administration and whatever Congress we have and make that happen. And we're also going to work on behalf of volunteers who come back and have continued challenges from their Peace Corps services, to make sure that they receive the health care in particular that they need, and that our community of returned Peace Corps volunteers has the resources and support from us that they need to thrive. And so I say we're all about the community first, and then we're all about the Peace Corps itself as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's probably a great place to end. So is there anything else that you want to talk about that I didn't ask you about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I would just end it by saying, you know, I think like we all do, we wish every American had the opportunity to serve in the Peace Corps. So many of them are turned away now because there's not enough resources for funding volunteers. 25,000 applicants, and only 3,500 slots available for them. So several thousand qualified applicants are turned away and it's just a matter of having the resources for it. I think if every American that wanted to join the Peace Corps could and or did some type of national service, we could really, really change the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Change attitudes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The way, yeah, the way things are in the world. And I'm just very grateful for my own experience and very blessed to have had such a really fascinating life and career that was marked deeply by my Peace Corps experience, and for which I'm just really grateful to the Peace Corps and fortunate that I was able to have that opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So thank you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00455:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 58.20817381965092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, on 17, I can talk to you about that. On 15, I was the CapCom during the sleep period, see, because Joe Allen was the surface CapCom. So he was there while they were basically awake or certainly when they were out on the surface. So the question there about balancing those things, on 17 we can talk about that, and it really wasn’t that big a deal. But for 15, I was the quiet period, [although] we were doing planning and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you talk to us about that period."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The quiet period?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were the Goodnight CapCom, what would you do during that period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would basically represent [the crew], if questions came up about here was a problem or potential problem in the lunar module or the command module, what should the crew be doing about it. Should we wake the crew up on this? Could we wait? … So you’re thinking a little bit about what they’re doing the next day, and you’re knowing the systems and their procedures just like the people in the control room doing this. They were all the experts and there’s all the real expects behind them in the back rooms. So basically there was a plan already, “This is what’s going to happen tomorrow.” But meanwhile some people, “Well, we need to add this,” or, “We need to take this out,” and you’re basically sort of the crew spokesmen, particularly at two o’clock in the morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would you then present these ideas to Joe Allen when he came on board?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00455:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 61.34241535516769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The quiet period?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were the Goodnight CapCom, what would you do during that period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would basically represent [the crew], if questions came up about here was a problem or potential problem in the lunar module or the command module, what should the crew be doing about it. Should we wake the crew up on this? Could we wait? … So you’re thinking a little bit about what they’re doing the next day, and you’re knowing the systems and their procedures just like the people in the control room doing this. They were all the experts and there’s all the real expects behind them in the back rooms. So basically there was a plan already, “This is what’s going to happen tomorrow.” But meanwhile some people, “Well, we need to add this,” or, “We need to take this out,” and you’re basically sort of the crew spokesmen, particularly at two o’clock in the morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would you then present these ideas to Joe Allen when he came on board?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically you’d tell Joe what’s happened. If you look in the—if you watch—and I’m sure you guys have seen or been in there, in the control room—the shift change, everybody comes in and sits down. I don’t know how routine it is these days, but there’s about a half hour handover on, “Here’s all the problems.” There’s a lot of written documentation in those days where they wrote in their notebooks, a lot of, “Here’s what’s happened. We did this. This happened, but we’ve taken care of it with that. They’re going to do this tomorrow,” or, “They’re going to do it the next day instead of tomorrow.” All that stuff, just rapidly bring them up to date. But I’m sure you guys have seen basically loose-leaf notebooks with the forms, just wrote into the forms, and page after page after page, everybody handed—called handover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about Apollo 17. I’m curious, you became the mission scientist for Apollo 17, and the first time that there was a mission scientist was on Apollo 15."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00455:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 63.23839137836713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More beads and trinkets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. All right. We’ll move on from there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More beads and trinkets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n . Where were you when the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident occurred?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were preparing to fly in forty days or nights or whatever, to go observe Halley’s Comet on the next Shuttle flight, the very next one. That morning we were over in Building 5, training launches and entries, stopped to go watch the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n launch in a small room, on TV. Obviously we didn’t fly forty days later. Interestingly enough, forty days later it was even colder that morning. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I’ve read that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00455:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 70.26487930929682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More beads and trinkets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n . Where were you when the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident occurred?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were preparing to fly in forty days or nights or whatever, to go observe Halley’s Comet on the next Shuttle flight, the very next one. That morning we were over in Building 5, training launches and entries, stopped to go watch the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n launch in a small room, on TV. Obviously we didn’t fly forty days later. Interestingly enough, forty days later it was even colder that morning. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I’ve read that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so what did we do after that, you ask."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, what did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00455:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 26.373686900000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know how much reading you did ahead of time, but JPL is a contract. It’s not a NASA Center like JSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know all those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we have about twenty-five people here, this floor, twenty-five people who oversee a contract that NASA, Code S, Space Science, has with Caltech to run JPL. The people who work at JPL are basically Caltech employees. They are soft-money employees, which means that if NASA stopped, ended its contract, they’d all lose their jobs. So there’s an office out here to oversee it. They wanted someone out here to change over, and so here I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what are some of your basic duties as director?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00455:128", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.629000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, we named them for friends and famous people in books. One of them is called Shorty and it came from Jack and it’s something—I’ve forgotten. It’s some author. It’s not a book [that] I know, but it’s something about fishing in America with Shorty or something. There’s a famous book with that name.\\n\\n I was a big fan of Zhivago, and so one of them is named Lara. The Russians didn’t like that. And there’s a whole bunch of them. There’s a crater named Henry or Prince Henry or something, which is named for Prince Henry the Navigator. It’s just whimsical, great things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a fun job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. We spent time doing that. It’s just an example of the sorts of things that Jack and I [did] working closely together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent some time while at JSC on the Astronaut Selection Board?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with us about—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00455:130", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 11.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. We spent time doing that. It’s just an example of the sorts of things that Jack and I [did] working closely together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent some time while at JSC on the Astronaut Selection Board?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with us about—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I can’t say a thing about that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The pros and cons of being on that board?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00455:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. [Laughter] Either that or [everyone] else [had] something more important, I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My last question is kind of just one for your own thoughts. Your span of time with NASA has covered so many duties, and you’ve had so many opportunities. Is there one or maybe two that you wish you could spent more time with or if you could have gone back or you could have been a little more instrumental in setting your own path? Would you have liked to have stayed in one of your paths just a little bit longer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Looking back in retrospect, no. At the time, of course. But looking back in retrospect, I would say no. I might [have] liked to have had a bit more success in continuing the science in the Shuttle during this period, [Station construction], and so forth. But one of the things I learned, which you see a little bit at JSC, of course, but not so much when you’re an astronaut, but [certainly] in going to Headquarters, is a thing called turf. Turf, turf, turf, turf. And the greatest idea in the world [that you] and your boss think is a great idea, but his boss doesn’t think is a good idea, and two years later it’s still being argued about. But that’s not unique to NASA either. [That’s actually not a very good description of “Turf,” but everyone knows what it is.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you feel that we should cover, anything else that you would like to talk about today that we may have missed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You read through all these things, I assume, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we hit on all the high points."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00455:140", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Looking back in retrospect, no. At the time, of course. But looking back in retrospect, I would say no. I might [have] liked to have had a bit more success in continuing the science in the Shuttle during this period, [Station construction], and so forth. But one of the things I learned, which you see a little bit at JSC, of course, but not so much when you’re an astronaut, but [certainly] in going to Headquarters, is a thing called turf. Turf, turf, turf, turf. And the greatest idea in the world [that you] and your boss think is a great idea, but his boss doesn’t think is a good idea, and two years later it’s still being argued about. But that’s not unique to NASA either. [That’s actually not a very good description of “Turf,” but everyone knows what it is.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you feel that we should cover, anything else that you would like to talk about today that we may have missed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You read through all these things, I assume, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we hit on all the high points."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You did all those points, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious if there is something that we have missed in our research or anything else you would like to add."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00498:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.2, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And certainly have seen a lot and have done so much, and I guess thinking back on those days, did you have plans when you were a young boy on what you wanted to do, and did you accomplish those, or did you just take all those different paths that led you where you are today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "More the latter than the former. I'm always amazed when I meet the occasional ten-, eleven-, fourteen-year-old that knows what he or she wants to do. I never did. I think most kids never do. I knew I was interested in engineering and science, but beyond that, it was more what looks interesting for the next period of my life, what looks like an opportunity, and move in that direction, rather than have a long-term plan and work it out a step at a time. You can do it either way. In some ways it's more comfortable if you have a plan. If you have that kind of thing and you're good at that, great. Go for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We certainly thank you for your time with us today. Is there anything else that you would like to add, or is there a possibility we might have skipped over something you'd like to go back to at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Just different stories here and there and the other place, one thing or another, but, you know, we can go on and on with too many stories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we're always glad to hear from you, and we certainly thank you for the time that you gave to us today."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00498:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 38, "return_to_go": 38.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More the latter than the former. I'm always amazed when I meet the occasional ten-, eleven-, fourteen-year-old that knows what he or she wants to do. I never did. I think most kids never do. I knew I was interested in engineering and science, but beyond that, it was more what looks interesting for the next period of my life, what looks like an opportunity, and move in that direction, rather than have a long-term plan and work it out a step at a time. You can do it either way. In some ways it's more comfortable if you have a plan. If you have that kind of thing and you're good at that, great. Go for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We certainly thank you for your time with us today. Is there anything else that you would like to add, or is there a possibility we might have skipped over something you'd like to go back to at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Just different stories here and there and the other place, one thing or another, but, you know, we can go on and on with too many stories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we're always glad to hear from you, and we certainly thank you for the time that you gave to us today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. [Tape recorder turned off.]\\n\\n How did you meet the Russians as part of your Association of Space Explorers?"}]}
{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00001:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.40611346069472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I served in the United States Navy from 1986 to 1992. I separated as electrician’s mate second class, qualified in submarines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you living at the time that you enlisted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had just graduated from high school and had grown up in a small town called Mitchell, Nebraska."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you decide to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Largely because it seemed easier than going to college at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it turn out to be as easy as expected?"}]}
{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00001:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 40.45123717854969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had just graduated from high school and had grown up in a small town called Mitchell, Nebraska."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you decide to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Largely because it seemed easier than going to college at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it turn out to be as easy as expected?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I know that I just wasn’t motivated for college at the point that I got out of high school and seemed like something better to do than just sticking around in a small town. So it was worthwhile. It was a lot of work but it was worthwhile."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you pick the service branch that you joined?"}]}
{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00001:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 42.72359686505521, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Largely because it seemed easier than going to college at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it turn out to be as easy as expected?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I know that I just wasn’t motivated for college at the point that I got out of high school and seemed like something better to do than just sticking around in a small town. So it was worthwhile. It was a lot of work but it was worthwhile."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you pick the service branch that you joined?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Largely to get out. I’d had a friend that had joined the Naval Interior Power Program, which is what I went into, a few years before and it seemed kind of interesting and submarines certainly seemed pretty interesting. So that’s primarily why I went that way.\n\nDid you know a lot about submarines prior to joining?\n\nA little, but nothing like I learned later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What surprised you the most about submarine culture, the environment?"}]}
{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00001:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 47.47066318339467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I know that I just wasn’t motivated for college at the point that I got out of high school and seemed like something better to do than just sticking around in a small town. So it was worthwhile. It was a lot of work but it was worthwhile."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you pick the service branch that you joined?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Largely to get out. I’d had a friend that had joined the Naval Interior Power Program, which is what I went into, a few years before and it seemed kind of interesting and submarines certainly seemed pretty interesting. So that’s primarily why I went that way.\n\nDid you know a lot about submarines prior to joining?\n\nA little, but nothing like I learned later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What surprised you the most about submarine culture, the environment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the quality of the people there. You worked with a group. In my case it was about 125 to 130 officers and enlisted men, and across the board I’ve never worked with a higher level of ability than I did when I was on board the ship. Just from the guys that were cooking the meals to the captain. They all just were super sharp and knew what they needed to do, and we all depended on each other to come back every time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think being underwater had some role in that?"}]}
{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00001:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 51.634070203771856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Largely to get out. I’d had a friend that had joined the Naval Interior Power Program, which is what I went into, a few years before and it seemed kind of interesting and submarines certainly seemed pretty interesting. So that’s primarily why I went that way.\n\nDid you know a lot about submarines prior to joining?\n\nA little, but nothing like I learned later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What surprised you the most about submarine culture, the environment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the quality of the people there. You worked with a group. In my case it was about 125 to 130 officers and enlisted men, and across the board I’ve never worked with a higher level of ability than I did when I was on board the ship. Just from the guys that were cooking the meals to the captain. They all just were super sharp and knew what they needed to do, and we all depended on each other to come back every time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think being underwater had some role in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, serving in the submarine service was unique. The one thing we learned when we got on board was a common mantra that said, anywhere you were inside the ship, you could reach out at arm’s length and you could touch something that had the potential to kill you. And that was very true, there was always at least high-voltage electricity within arm’s reach of where you were. When you were sleeping, you had high-voltage electricity running, sometimes right above your bunk. It was just everywhere. And so, with that knowledge, and then knowing that unlike a surface ship, if you had a problem you were already on the surface and you could abandon ship into lifeboats. And for us, first, we had to get to the surface for us to even contemplate something like that, and depending upon the casualty you might not make it to the surface. So everybody had to stay on that game and make sure that you recognized any potential problem that might arise no matter what you were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember your first days in service?"}]}
{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00001:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 50.704522448635394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the quality of the people there. You worked with a group. In my case it was about 125 to 130 officers and enlisted men, and across the board I’ve never worked with a higher level of ability than I did when I was on board the ship. Just from the guys that were cooking the meals to the captain. They all just were super sharp and knew what they needed to do, and we all depended on each other to come back every time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think being underwater had some role in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, serving in the submarine service was unique. The one thing we learned when we got on board was a common mantra that said, anywhere you were inside the ship, you could reach out at arm’s length and you could touch something that had the potential to kill you. And that was very true, there was always at least high-voltage electricity within arm’s reach of where you were. When you were sleeping, you had high-voltage electricity running, sometimes right above your bunk. It was just everywhere. And so, with that knowledge, and then knowing that unlike a surface ship, if you had a problem you were already on the surface and you could abandon ship into lifeboats. And for us, first, we had to get to the surface for us to even contemplate something like that, and depending upon the casualty you might not make it to the surface. So everybody had to stay on that game and make sure that you recognized any potential problem that might arise no matter what you were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember your first days in service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so I left western Nebraska. I went to basic training in Great Lakes Naval Station in North Chicago. And got there, it would have been late on January 3rd. Got a few moments of sleep and the next thing I knew I was being woke up by metal trashcan being thrown, kicked, and tossed through the room as they woke all of us up to start out our first full day of basic training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did it feel like to be in the service finally?"}]}
{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00001:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.638357299, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I left Hawaii actually on December 13. I didn’t separate until January 2 of 1992. I left in December of 1991. Yeah, it was kind of a fun day. I mean I had done all my paperwork to leave the island and basically go on what’s called terminal leave where you spent the last, my last 21 days of leave and then I just never had to check in again. And had done all that and sat around with the guys that were, the engineering department at that point was actually on shift work for a major evolution that was going on the ship. And so I was sitting around with the day crew or the crew that would have been on at night, and we were just sitting around shooting the breeze, having a good time for a few hours. I think my flight was probably like 4:00 or 5:00 out of the Honolulu International. And so one or two of the guys who had taken me down there to get me off. So it was just kind of nice chance to sit around and shoot the breeze with half the crew or so, or half the engineering crew anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go back to school when you got out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did, like a year and a half at a small state school in eastern Nebraska called Peru State College. And then I transferred to the University of Kansas probably as much to get married as for the education, and finished my bachelor’s and then also got a master’s in historical administration and museum studies from University of Kansas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it difficult to make that transition from submarine electrician to historical museum?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean it was a slow transition in some ways. I spent time at a couple of different historical places before I ended up at National Archives working in the Federal Records Center and stayed there for, well, I worked here at the FRC for like 11 years before I transferred to Research Services and still continue to work here with the archival records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your education supported by the GI Bill or was that before that?"}]}
{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00001:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.931508110000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did, like a year and a half at a small state school in eastern Nebraska called Peru State College. And then I transferred to the University of Kansas probably as much to get married as for the education, and finished my bachelor’s and then also got a master’s in historical administration and museum studies from University of Kansas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it difficult to make that transition from submarine electrician to historical museum?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean it was a slow transition in some ways. I spent time at a couple of different historical places before I ended up at National Archives working in the Federal Records Center and stayed there for, well, I worked here at the FRC for like 11 years before I transferred to Research Services and still continue to work here with the archival records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your education supported by the GI Bill or was that before that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was supported by it. Yep, they helped out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make any close friendships while you were in the service? And do you continue any of those friendships today or the relationships today?"}]}
{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00001:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.9238979, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean it was a slow transition in some ways. I spent time at a couple of different historical places before I ended up at National Archives working in the Federal Records Center and stayed there for, well, I worked here at the FRC for like 11 years before I transferred to Research Services and still continue to work here with the archival records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your education supported by the GI Bill or was that before that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was supported by it. Yep, they helped out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make any close friendships while you were in the service? And do you continue any of those friendships today or the relationships today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there’s two or three in particular. Actually, one of the officer that I served with is still a really good friend. He runs a business out in San Francisco Bay Area. Then an electrician that I spent pretty much the entire four years that I was onboard the ship, we arrived the same day, and he left a month before I did. And he’s down in the Tampa Bay area, and I still chat with those two in particular fairly often. And then there’s a group for the boat on Facebook that I chat with on occasion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever tried accessing your military records?"}]}
{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00001:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.804331000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was supported by it. Yep, they helped out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make any close friendships while you were in the service? And do you continue any of those friendships today or the relationships today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there’s two or three in particular. Actually, one of the officer that I served with is still a really good friend. He runs a business out in San Francisco Bay Area. Then an electrician that I spent pretty much the entire four years that I was onboard the ship, we arrived the same day, and he left a month before I did. And he’s down in the Tampa Bay area, and I still chat with those two in particular fairly often. And then there’s a group for the boat on Facebook that I chat with on occasion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever tried accessing your military records?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven’t. I’ve thought about it but I don’t really have any particular need to get to them. Yeah, I have helped a person or two here in Lenexa that was needing some help from the people in St. Louis, and I’ve helped them get some access to their records, but I haven’t needed to for myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you join a veteran’s organization?"}]}
{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00001:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.78259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there’s two or three in particular. Actually, one of the officer that I served with is still a really good friend. He runs a business out in San Francisco Bay Area. Then an electrician that I spent pretty much the entire four years that I was onboard the ship, we arrived the same day, and he left a month before I did. And he’s down in the Tampa Bay area, and I still chat with those two in particular fairly often. And then there’s a group for the boat on Facebook that I chat with on occasion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever tried accessing your military records?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven’t. I’ve thought about it but I don’t really have any particular need to get to them. Yeah, I have helped a person or two here in Lenexa that was needing some help from the people in St. Louis, and I’ve helped them get some access to their records, but I haven’t needed to for myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you join a veteran’s organization?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I never did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do after the service?"}]}
{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00001:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.4251000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven’t. I’ve thought about it but I don’t really have any particular need to get to them. Yeah, I have helped a person or two here in Lenexa that was needing some help from the people in St. Louis, and I’ve helped them get some access to their records, but I haven’t needed to for myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you join a veteran’s organization?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I never did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do after the service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After I got my degree, I worked at an association for golf course superintendents as their archivist and records manager. I did that for a couple of years. I worked at a science museum for a few years. Then I worked at a historical farm at a stagecoach stop, and I actually drove a stagecoach for like two and a half years. And then I got the job with the Federal Records Center and then into the archives side of it here, a couple of years ago now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from a golf course to the science museum to the historical farm to a stagecoach, what was your favorite pre-NARA job?"}]}
{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00001:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I never did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do after the service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After I got my degree, I worked at an association for golf course superintendents as their archivist and records manager. I did that for a couple of years. I worked at a science museum for a few years. Then I worked at a historical farm at a stagecoach stop, and I actually drove a stagecoach for like two and a half years. And then I got the job with the Federal Records Center and then into the archives side of it here, a couple of years ago now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from a golf course to the science museum to the historical farm to a stagecoach, what was your favorite pre-NARA job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would have to say it was work with horses, driving a stagecoach. I mean it was a lot of fun. I have a thing with animals. I work well with animals. For the most part we got along pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn how to play golf too?"}]}
{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00001:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 5.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After I got my degree, I worked at an association for golf course superintendents as their archivist and records manager. I did that for a couple of years. I worked at a science museum for a few years. Then I worked at a historical farm at a stagecoach stop, and I actually drove a stagecoach for like two and a half years. And then I got the job with the Federal Records Center and then into the archives side of it here, a couple of years ago now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from a golf course to the science museum to the historical farm to a stagecoach, what was your favorite pre-NARA job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would have to say it was work with horses, driving a stagecoach. I mean it was a lot of fun. I have a thing with animals. I work well with animals. For the most part we got along pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn how to play golf too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not particularly, I know how to play but I’m not any good, and I usually drive the other people around me crazy if I’m golfing because I don’t take it serious enough. So never really did but it was an interesting place because it was basically for the groundskeepers for the golf course is what the association was. And so, we had some old grounds-keeping equipment that came from Saint Andrews in Scotland and whatnot, and I would get to play and tinker with those things. I did both their archives and their museum equipment, so that was kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your service and experiences affect your life overall?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00006:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 58.13237703332825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "William H. Davis. W-I-L-L-I-A-M H. Davis, D-A-V-I-S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is your affiliation with NARA at the moment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m with the Center for Legislative Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What is your position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Archivist.\n\nSome might say unofficially a senior archivist, but officially, the title is archivist. There isn’t an official job title of senior archivist. We’re all archivists. Whether you’re a 13 or a 12 or an 11 or what have you, you’re an archivist. There isn’t a job title that reflects one’s longevity. There are archives specialists, there are supervisory archivists, but there aren’t senior archivists. I’m an archivist. But since I’ve been here for over 30 years, sometimes people will say senior archivist just to be polite. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, for some background information on you before we get into the meat and potatoes of your time here. Where were you born?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00006:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 61.25819670369805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m with the Center for Legislative Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What is your position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Archivist.\n\nSome might say unofficially a senior archivist, but officially, the title is archivist. There isn’t an official job title of senior archivist. We’re all archivists. Whether you’re a 13 or a 12 or an 11 or what have you, you’re an archivist. There isn’t a job title that reflects one’s longevity. There are archives specialists, there are supervisory archivists, but there aren’t senior archivists. I’m an archivist. But since I’ve been here for over 30 years, sometimes people will say senior archivist just to be polite. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, for some background information on you before we get into the meat and potatoes of your time here. Where were you born?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "New York City, Manhattan. Raised on Long Island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a bit of distance from there to here. What got you interested in the archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00006:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 58.064663004108944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Archivist.\n\nSome might say unofficially a senior archivist, but officially, the title is archivist. There isn’t an official job title of senior archivist. We’re all archivists. Whether you’re a 13 or a 12 or an 11 or what have you, you’re an archivist. There isn’t a job title that reflects one’s longevity. There are archives specialists, there are supervisory archivists, but there aren’t senior archivists. I’m an archivist. But since I’ve been here for over 30 years, sometimes people will say senior archivist just to be polite. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, for some background information on you before we get into the meat and potatoes of your time here. Where were you born?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "New York City, Manhattan. Raised on Long Island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a bit of distance from there to here. What got you interested in the archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did my undergraduate work at Washington and Jefferson College in southwestern Pennsylvania. Then I went to the University of Maryland as a graduate student. I learned about what was called the Hills Program, where one can earn a degree in history and library science in the Library School. So I enrolled in that, and one of the classes I took was taught by Frank Burke, who was then an adjunct professor there. I learned about the National Archives through him. I could’ve done an internship anywhere in Washington at the time, but I wound up doing an internship here at the Archives. While I was an intern here in the fall of 1982, they offered me a job as an intermittent archives technician. I accepted it, and have been here ever since."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So why were you interested in that specific program at the University of Maryland?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00006:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 64.51629222678771, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "New York City, Manhattan. Raised on Long Island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a bit of distance from there to here. What got you interested in the archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did my undergraduate work at Washington and Jefferson College in southwestern Pennsylvania. Then I went to the University of Maryland as a graduate student. I learned about what was called the Hills Program, where one can earn a degree in history and library science in the Library School. So I enrolled in that, and one of the classes I took was taught by Frank Burke, who was then an adjunct professor there. I learned about the National Archives through him. I could’ve done an internship anywhere in Washington at the time, but I wound up doing an internship here at the Archives. While I was an intern here in the fall of 1982, they offered me a job as an intermittent archives technician. I accepted it, and have been here ever since."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So why were you interested in that specific program at the University of Maryland?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was graduating from college and going into graduate school, I was told that teaching positions in history were very difficult to find. They’re even more difficult to find now. When I learned about that program, where the emphasis is on archives and manuscripts and special libraries, I thought, wow, that’s fascinating because I love historical libraries. I knew that others were involved in it. I just thought it was something to try, and I loved it from the start. I knew that it was a very good fit for me because I loved history and historic libraries. History was always my strong subject, and it was always my main interest throughout my growing up years. It was a foregone conclusion that I would major in history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a specific time period of history you were interested in, or just history in general?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00006:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 66.12921358531968, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did my undergraduate work at Washington and Jefferson College in southwestern Pennsylvania. Then I went to the University of Maryland as a graduate student. I learned about what was called the Hills Program, where one can earn a degree in history and library science in the Library School. So I enrolled in that, and one of the classes I took was taught by Frank Burke, who was then an adjunct professor there. I learned about the National Archives through him. I could’ve done an internship anywhere in Washington at the time, but I wound up doing an internship here at the Archives. While I was an intern here in the fall of 1982, they offered me a job as an intermittent archives technician. I accepted it, and have been here ever since."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So why were you interested in that specific program at the University of Maryland?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was graduating from college and going into graduate school, I was told that teaching positions in history were very difficult to find. They’re even more difficult to find now. When I learned about that program, where the emphasis is on archives and manuscripts and special libraries, I thought, wow, that’s fascinating because I love historical libraries. I knew that others were involved in it. I just thought it was something to try, and I loved it from the start. I knew that it was a very good fit for me because I loved history and historic libraries. History was always my strong subject, and it was always my main interest throughout my growing up years. It was a foregone conclusion that I would major in history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a specific time period of history you were interested in, or just history in general?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was always particularly fascinated with the Age of Enlightenment, 17th-and 18th-century French history in particular, the early modern period. I always enjoyed American history also. But certainly since I’ve been with the Archives, I’ve learned a great deal about all of American history. It’s all fascinating to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you come across any documents from the 17th-century or 18th-century in the Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00006:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 81.4659079471092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there from 1982 to 1984."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were the most interesting records that you came across during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember anything specifically. I remember I did a lot of microfilm publications, which were done a lot in those years. I surveyed records and prepared them for microfilm publication. I wrote little descriptions about them for a microfilm pamphlet. I put in target pages that let the film person know when to stop a section and to start another. I must’ve done other processing as well. But I always found the Consular Post files to be absolutely fascinating. The State Department records have their own classification scheme that they devised, so you can study it and see how things were arranged so you can focus on the areas that interest you the most. The State Department records were very well organized. They had good records management practices. The General Records of the State Department also were very interesting, but I don’t remember much about those. I remember the Consular Post files were particularly interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was listening to an interview with another archivist here last week who currently deals with State Department records…"}, {"role": "user", "content": "David Langbart?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it was Paul Wester."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00006:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 90.517675496788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember anything specifically. I remember I did a lot of microfilm publications, which were done a lot in those years. I surveyed records and prepared them for microfilm publication. I wrote little descriptions about them for a microfilm pamphlet. I put in target pages that let the film person know when to stop a section and to start another. I must’ve done other processing as well. But I always found the Consular Post files to be absolutely fascinating. The State Department records have their own classification scheme that they devised, so you can study it and see how things were arranged so you can focus on the areas that interest you the most. The State Department records were very well organized. They had good records management practices. The General Records of the State Department also were very interesting, but I don’t remember much about those. I remember the Consular Post files were particularly interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was listening to an interview with another archivist here last week who currently deals with State Department records…"}, {"role": "user", "content": "David Langbart?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it was Paul Wester."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was talking about the problems they’re having with Hillary Clinton’s emails, not just hers, but the early years with emails, and how they were being handled, what to do with them. Were there any similar kind of problems with records, whether people weren’t necessarily keeping them, or filing them like they’re supposed to, or—"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00006:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 98.3529727742089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "David Langbart?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it was Paul Wester."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was talking about the problems they’re having with Hillary Clinton’s emails, not just hers, but the early years with emails, and how they were being handled, what to do with them. Were there any similar kind of problems with records, whether people weren’t necessarily keeping them, or filing them like they’re supposed to, or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I’m thinking back about State Department records, which I haven’t worked with in many, many, years. I remember in the early 1980s, the newer State Department records that were just coming in to the Archives, that classification scheme that had worked so well for State Department records up through the early- to mid-20th-century, was no longer being used. So that presented problems for the archivists here on how to decipher them, how they should be filed. The fact that the old classification scheme was no longer useful, was presenting a new problem. We didn’t have email issues because there was no such thing. To organize the newer records, we needed a new classification scheme, because the old one was no longer useful; it had broken down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in decisions about how to start reclassifying this stuff when it was coming in, or was that at a higher level?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00006:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 39, "return_to_go": 109.28108086023211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was talking about the problems they’re having with Hillary Clinton’s emails, not just hers, but the early years with emails, and how they were being handled, what to do with them. Were there any similar kind of problems with records, whether people weren’t necessarily keeping them, or filing them like they’re supposed to, or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I’m thinking back about State Department records, which I haven’t worked with in many, many, years. I remember in the early 1980s, the newer State Department records that were just coming in to the Archives, that classification scheme that had worked so well for State Department records up through the early- to mid-20th-century, was no longer being used. So that presented problems for the archivists here on how to decipher them, how they should be filed. The fact that the old classification scheme was no longer useful, was presenting a new problem. We didn’t have email issues because there was no such thing. To organize the newer records, we needed a new classification scheme, because the old one was no longer useful; it had broken down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in decisions about how to start reclassifying this stuff when it was coming in, or was that at a higher level?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a higher level—but I know certain discussions were going on. I don’t think I was involved in anything that important. But I know that those issues were going on at the time. There are always new issues, new challenges to what we do here, no matter what records we’re working with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in 1984, you left that office?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00787:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.424900000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm Yuri Kargopolov. Pleased to meet you. I'm a native of Byelorussia; Belarus, as they call it now. I graduated from Military Engineering Academy, named after Professor Zhukovsky. So my first order was the Air Force, actually. I was doing technical work for the Air Force. Upon my graduation from the academy, I was hired by the Cosmonaut Training Center and that was in 1974, so since that year I'm presently working at the Cosmonaut Training Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Gagarin Training Center that you're at now, or Star City?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Star City. So this is the place where we train all our crews for missions on our manned vehicles, Soyuz and various space stations that we have had over the course of those years. So, as I said, I started working at Star City in 1974, and that was exactly a year before our first joint project, Soyuz-Apollo, or Apollo-Soyuz.\\n\\n So when I started, the crew training was already on its way at Star City. Unfortunately, at that time I was not directly involved in crew training for Apollo-Soyuz Program. At that time I was working at the department that was responsible for crew training for our then orbital station Salyut 4. So for the first few years, I was quite actively involved in crew training for Salyut 4 and then Salyut 5, 6, and Salyut 7. So I was an integrated training instructor. That was my primary responsibility.\\n\\n So it's really very nice for me to be here now when Ryumin is about to start his mission, because I remember when I started my career as a training instructor, he was one of my students preparing for his mission on Salyut 4."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must be neat to be able to follow his career and able to close it out together with the Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, of course. It's very neat and we have a lot of fond memories together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your current duties in the Phase 1 Shuttle-Mir Program? Can you explain what your working group does?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00787:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.290000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, of course. It's very neat and we have a lot of fond memories together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your current duties in the Phase 1 Shuttle-Mir Program? Can you explain what your working group does?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our group was formed as a joint training group and the crew exchange group for both Mir-Shuttle and Mir-NASA programs. When we started working on this joint program, my American counterpart was Donald Puddy. I would like to express my admiration and gratitude to this person. I really learned a lot from him.\\n\\n Our main responsibility was to prepare Russian cosmonauts and American astronauts for a joint approach for training astronauts in Russia and our cosmonauts here, so that they could successfully complete their tasks on orbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about the training a little bit in the first crew that came over with Norm [Norman E.] Thagard and Bonnie [J.] Dunbar. How did that process take place? I know that the language barrier was one thing you had to overcome, but were there other things that happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was, of course, a challenging experience, although I have to say that that was not a real serious problem for us, because we already by that time had a pretty good experience in training foreign cosmonauts to fly on our space station. I don't know if you know, but we actually trained foreign cosmonauts from more than twenty countries to fly on the Mir station.\\n\\n So basically we have the same approach for everybody who comes to our training center. First three months are normally spent just by studying the Russian language. It's a very intensive Russian-language course. Then after that, we start slowly immersing them into all technical subjects such as design of the vehicle, design of various elements and components, subsystems, and so on. So it's a gradual process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the training syllabus change whether it was a long mission or a short mission, or what vehicle you rode up, whether it was the Soyuz or the Shuttle? Were there differences?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00251:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 67.99719623423245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. That was the only landing we made with just two, and it was okay.\\n\\n That’s another reason for going into the water. If your objective isn’t to prove you can land on land, water is a really forgiving substance. I say that, but we fought the water impact. I didn’t work directly on this as much, but the Apollo vehicle, if you put it in the water too flat, that heat shield would give and make itself even flatter, and you could develop some extreme pressures, more than the heat shield would stand. You could bust it by hitting at thirty feet per second just at the wrong angle, like on a wave slope. So we did a lot of technology efforts to try to solve that problem. And that’s one reason we looked to landing on land for Apollo. We had some neat systems for landing on land for Apollo, like the rocking rocket. Have you heard of that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I’m not familiar with that one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would come dragging in like this and touch down on the back of the heat shield. Then it would rock over, and this gets to be a really dynamic event. After this contact, we would fire a small rocket up here and arrest the rotation rate. That worked good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then just land with a regular parachute then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just drifting with a regular parachute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did they give up trying to put Apollo down on the ground?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00251:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 21, "return_to_go": 68.88577359359161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would come dragging in like this and touch down on the back of the heat shield. Then it would rock over, and this gets to be a really dynamic event. After this contact, we would fire a small rocket up here and arrest the rotation rate. That worked good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then just land with a regular parachute then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just drifting with a regular parachute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did they give up trying to put Apollo down on the ground?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We never really had that as a strong objective. It was a technology driver more than anything else. I would say we probably started really giving up on those kind of efforts when it became clear we were build a Shuttle, which was fairly early for us. Usually people like me were kind of loose from a program a year or two before we stopped flying those missions and already working on the next one.\\n\\n So the first thing we worked on was the Space Station before Apollo was over. The Agency kind of made a choice that the Shuttle—that the more convenient access to Earth orbit was the most important part of that future overall plan. So we went in the Shuttle direction. Suddenly I’m without parachutes, except the first mission had ejection seats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as someone who had been doing parachutes all along, how did that—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00251:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You said that very well, very well. I felt that very strongly throughout my career to the last few years. In the last few years, some of the problems just got to be a bit too big for us. I’m talking about Space Station requirements. One of the Space Station requirements is bailing Russia out of their financial problems. I’m not saying that’s not important for the country; it’s just different. It’s not the way I did systems engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds to us that everything that you learned you were able to build on. We certainly have enjoyed listening how you made changes and made those results that you were looking for."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those were all the questions I had as well, so unless there’s anything else you’d like to say, I'd like to give you the opportunity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. I might really like to sit down when I see the result and add a few things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you’ll certainly have that opportunity. I'd like to thank you for joining us today."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 45.14918254802022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trying to finish college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at Hamilton College in upstate New York, near Clinton, New York. That's where I did my bachelors work and trying to decide what to make of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We stopped the tape recorder just to make sure it's picking up. Henry, let's go back. Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in first in Brooklyn, New York, in the part of Brooklyn known as Brownsville, and I was there for the first, what, eight, nine years of my life. And then we moved to Hempstead, on Long Island, where I finished grade school and high school and then went to Hamilton College in 1960 and into the Peace Corps in ‘64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have a big family, siblings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 49.05464727557802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at Hamilton College in upstate New York, near Clinton, New York. That's where I did my bachelors work and trying to decide what to make of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We stopped the tape recorder just to make sure it's picking up. Henry, let's go back. Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in first in Brooklyn, New York, in the part of Brooklyn known as Brownsville, and I was there for the first, what, eight, nine years of my life. And then we moved to Hempstead, on Long Island, where I finished grade school and high school and then went to Hamilton College in 1960 and into the Peace Corps in ‘64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have a big family, siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a small family. I have one older sister who was three years older than me. We were a very close family. I loved my parents very much. They were very supportive in what I wanted to do, very encouraging all along the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you travel with you, with your folks, as a kid?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 47.83849697286447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in first in Brooklyn, New York, in the part of Brooklyn known as Brownsville, and I was there for the first, what, eight, nine years of my life. And then we moved to Hempstead, on Long Island, where I finished grade school and high school and then went to Hamilton College in 1960 and into the Peace Corps in ‘64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have a big family, siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a small family. I have one older sister who was three years older than me. We were a very close family. I loved my parents very much. They were very supportive in what I wanted to do, very encouraging all along the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you travel with you, with your folks, as a kid?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we traveled some on the East Coast and sometimes longer trips and but not a whole lot. We, in the summertime, we had there was a place that my grandparents had purchased in Monroe, New York. It was a kind of farm, an old farmhouse, and with a barn. So summers were spent there. So exploring a rural situation, out of Brooklyn and out of Homestead and, uh, but not so much traveling. And I became involved with social activities in the high school and some sports, some track and some tennis. I became the president of the student government at my high school, at Hempstead High School, and that led to my first international experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, what was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 22.18629532321455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, 17 or 18. Yeah, well, first year of college it would be 18, I guess probably 18, 19. And I had studied French in high school and was continuing to do it at Hamilton. So that was fine. So it was great. So I spent the summer of ‘61 in France living with a French family, traveling locally with my French brother. And we also did a kind of camping trip, all of us that were in our group, with our brothers, our French brothers and sisters, in the south of France. And we spent some time in Paris. Um, that summer, as you might remember, was the summer when the wall in Berlin was starting to be built. And I wanted to reconnect with Peter, who I had been keeping in touch with. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was in West Berlin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in West Berlin. Yeah. And so at a crucial moment in our program, when we were going back up to Paris and just for a final week to 10 days before returning to the States with the Experiment group, I went A-W-O-L. I went AWOL and I flew to West Berlin to see Peter and to see what was happening in Berlin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, but you had finished pretty much your time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, pretty much. The program was finished and we were back just with our group. We had left our families and it was the last few days in Paris. But I decided to go to West Berlin to see what was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you folks know you were doing this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.9847725813495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in West Berlin. Yeah. And so at a crucial moment in our program, when we were going back up to Paris and just for a final week to 10 days before returning to the States with the Experiment group, I went A-W-O-L. I went AWOL and I flew to West Berlin to see Peter and to see what was happening in Berlin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, but you had finished pretty much your time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, pretty much. The program was finished and we were back just with our group. We had left our families and it was the last few days in Paris. But I decided to go to West Berlin to see what was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you folks know you were doing this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I told them afterwards and I got to see Peter. I stayed with him and his family. We saw the wall being built. And all of that was a kind of extension of that initial experience. So I came back and then continued my four years at Hamilton, majoring in French, because I came back speaking pretty well. And I also did other languages because I was interested in cultures, different cultures, I did Spanish and I did Russian. That was my roots journey because my family, my grandparents, had come from the Ukraine and from Belorussia and they self-identified as Russians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your mother's people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.808361211542591, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I told them afterwards and I got to see Peter. I stayed with him and his family. We saw the wall being built. And all of that was a kind of extension of that initial experience. So I came back and then continued my four years at Hamilton, majoring in French, because I came back speaking pretty well. And I also did other languages because I was interested in cultures, different cultures, I did Spanish and I did Russian. That was my roots journey because my family, my grandparents, had come from the Ukraine and from Belorussia and they self-identified as Russians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your mother's people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my father’s people, both. My father's people from the Ukraine, but from eastern Ukraine, especially the area that's under duress right now and my mother's family from Belarus in that area between Russia and Poland. So I wanted to do that kind of tracing my own kind of roots. Came to the senior year in college and didn't really know what I wanted to do. I was being asked to engage or participate in interviews for jobs with companies and so on. And I went to one interview for Ma Bell as she was called at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, AT&T."}, {"role": "user", "content": "AT&T, and was offered an administrative position in New York City. Most of my classmates, many of them who came from boarding schools, private schools, were thinking of going into either their parents’ business or business world or to become lawyers or to become doctors. That was not for me. That wasn't something I was interested in. And after the interview, I realized that that was not what I wanted to do. That's not what I want to be. I had no interest in that. So I had been very much moved by JFK and the idealism of giving back to your country, you know, and contributing in some way. And I think that had a very strong impact on me. His assassination was a very powerful emotional moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were somewhere in Hamilton?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.578223717953817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "AT&T, and was offered an administrative position in New York City. Most of my classmates, many of them who came from boarding schools, private schools, were thinking of going into either their parents’ business or business world or to become lawyers or to become doctors. That was not for me. That wasn't something I was interested in. And after the interview, I realized that that was not what I wanted to do. That's not what I want to be. I had no interest in that. So I had been very much moved by JFK and the idealism of giving back to your country, you know, and contributing in some way. And I think that had a very strong impact on me. His assassination was a very powerful emotional moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were somewhere in Hamilton?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at Hamilton, well, when the news came, actually, I was in Canada because I was visiting friends in Montreal with two of my classmates when the news came. And I was also taking a studio art course because in addition to languages, I minored in studio art, was a painter, a sculptor, because my father was a great craftsman. So I was keeping that interest going. And I remember the painting that I drew when I heard the news about it. It was an image, I don't think I have it anymore, but it was an image of great violence. And so I was very much moved by that and that stuck with me. So I think it was at that point that I decided to look into joining the Peace Corps, making some contribution, whatever I could. And somewhere in the world that, you know, I could learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any friends? Did you know people who had been in the Peace Corps? Or who were going to do this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're all on your own."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.198026353282017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at Hamilton, well, when the news came, actually, I was in Canada because I was visiting friends in Montreal with two of my classmates when the news came. And I was also taking a studio art course because in addition to languages, I minored in studio art, was a painter, a sculptor, because my father was a great craftsman. So I was keeping that interest going. And I remember the painting that I drew when I heard the news about it. It was an image, I don't think I have it anymore, but it was an image of great violence. And so I was very much moved by that and that stuck with me. So I think it was at that point that I decided to look into joining the Peace Corps, making some contribution, whatever I could. And somewhere in the world that, you know, I could learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any friends? Did you know people who had been in the Peace Corps? Or who were going to do this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're all on your own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was on my own. No, I went into it with very little knowledge or expectation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you filled out an application while you were still an undergraduate at Hamilton?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.553362614757798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're all on your own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was on my own. No, I went into it with very little knowledge or expectation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you filled out an application while you were still an undergraduate at Hamilton?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think in that senior year, I don't remember when, but I seem to think it was kind of like early spring, maybe winter or early spring of ‘64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hoping to be able to do something the following fall."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.374521746614564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think in that senior year, I don't remember when, but I seem to think it was kind of like early spring, maybe winter or early spring of ‘64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hoping to be able to do something the following fall."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And so I was accepted into the Peace Corps and was told that I would be going to Ghana because they had just set up a French language program in their schools. And since Ghana is itself surrounded by Francophone speaking countries, as is Nigeria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was the plan. But then about two weeks, a week or two weeks before we were to go to our training, which I think was going to take place in D.C., I'm not really sure. I don't remember now where I got word that, in fact, I wasn't going to Ghana. The program had been canceled by the Ghanaian government and that we were changing to Nigeria. So I had to look both of those places up on the map, okay? And that was fine. And that my training program would be at Columbia University, at Teachers College, and that would be our training and preparation and we'd head to Nigeria in the fall. So that was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you tell your parents what you're planning to do. What was their reaction?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.971690829571737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And so I was accepted into the Peace Corps and was told that I would be going to Ghana because they had just set up a French language program in their schools. And since Ghana is itself surrounded by Francophone speaking countries, as is Nigeria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was the plan. But then about two weeks, a week or two weeks before we were to go to our training, which I think was going to take place in D.C., I'm not really sure. I don't remember now where I got word that, in fact, I wasn't going to Ghana. The program had been canceled by the Ghanaian government and that we were changing to Nigeria. So I had to look both of those places up on the map, okay? And that was fine. And that my training program would be at Columbia University, at Teachers College, and that would be our training and preparation and we'd head to Nigeria in the fall. So that was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you tell your parents what you're planning to do. What was their reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were supportive. They said if this is what you want to do, we're fully in support of you. That's always been the case from my folks, never discouraging. And I think I thrive best when I have supportive energies around me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your friends? You're striking out on something so radically different from what they're choosing to do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.635212032857486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was the plan. But then about two weeks, a week or two weeks before we were to go to our training, which I think was going to take place in D.C., I'm not really sure. I don't remember now where I got word that, in fact, I wasn't going to Ghana. The program had been canceled by the Ghanaian government and that we were changing to Nigeria. So I had to look both of those places up on the map, okay? And that was fine. And that my training program would be at Columbia University, at Teachers College, and that would be our training and preparation and we'd head to Nigeria in the fall. So that was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you tell your parents what you're planning to do. What was their reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were supportive. They said if this is what you want to do, we're fully in support of you. That's always been the case from my folks, never discouraging. And I think I thrive best when I have supportive energies around me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your friends? You're striking out on something so radically different from what they're choosing to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my closest friends at college were also people who were not bent on the professions, of doctors or lawyers or business executives. My posse, my group of friends at Hamilton, were people who were interested in the arts and were interested in doing something slightly different, a little bit against the grain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they too would have been supportive."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.372457814286095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were supportive. They said if this is what you want to do, we're fully in support of you. That's always been the case from my folks, never discouraging. And I think I thrive best when I have supportive energies around me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your friends? You're striking out on something so radically different from what they're choosing to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my closest friends at college were also people who were not bent on the professions, of doctors or lawyers or business executives. My posse, my group of friends at Hamilton, were people who were interested in the arts and were interested in doing something slightly different, a little bit against the grain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they too would have been supportive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or found what you're doing very interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.191619793651217, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my closest friends at college were also people who were not bent on the professions, of doctors or lawyers or business executives. My posse, my group of friends at Hamilton, were people who were interested in the arts and were interested in doing something slightly different, a little bit against the grain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they too would have been supportive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or found what you're doing very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly. And the folks that were also majoring in French were, you know, interested in international affairs and in other cultures, in literature, in the arts, in the histories of other peoples. And that was where I felt most happy. So the Peace Corps was, you know, it was a kind of logical option for me at the time. And I was very happy that it was there because I also needed, I needed some time to decide what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you at all disappointed that you were being sent to an English speaking West African country instead of any one of those countries between Nigeria and Ghana or Cameroon?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.879577548501353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or found what you're doing very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly. And the folks that were also majoring in French were, you know, interested in international affairs and in other cultures, in literature, in the arts, in the histories of other peoples. And that was where I felt most happy. So the Peace Corps was, you know, it was a kind of logical option for me at the time. And I was very happy that it was there because I also needed, I needed some time to decide what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you at all disappointed that you were being sent to an English speaking West African country instead of any one of those countries between Nigeria and Ghana or Cameroon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all, because I thought my training or knowledge of French would be helpful to people who were interested in teaching and having it taught to the new generations. And I understood it as Nigeria's policy to try to foster a kind of Pan African union or community and language was going to facilitate that. And I felt that I could help in that goal, which I felt was important for Africa at this moment of independence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you don't travel across the country to do Peace Corps training. You're still in New York, although you're in Manhattan at Columbia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.643975053890392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly. And the folks that were also majoring in French were, you know, interested in international affairs and in other cultures, in literature, in the arts, in the histories of other peoples. And that was where I felt most happy. So the Peace Corps was, you know, it was a kind of logical option for me at the time. And I was very happy that it was there because I also needed, I needed some time to decide what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you at all disappointed that you were being sent to an English speaking West African country instead of any one of those countries between Nigeria and Ghana or Cameroon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all, because I thought my training or knowledge of French would be helpful to people who were interested in teaching and having it taught to the new generations. And I understood it as Nigeria's policy to try to foster a kind of Pan African union or community and language was going to facilitate that. And I felt that I could help in that goal, which I felt was important for Africa at this moment of independence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you don't travel across the country to do Peace Corps training. You're still in New York, although you're in Manhattan at Columbia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was that like when you first arrived? Did you have, was it a big training group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.271083393211546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all, because I thought my training or knowledge of French would be helpful to people who were interested in teaching and having it taught to the new generations. And I understood it as Nigeria's policy to try to foster a kind of Pan African union or community and language was going to facilitate that. And I felt that I could help in that goal, which I felt was important for Africa at this moment of independence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you don't travel across the country to do Peace Corps training. You're still in New York, although you're in Manhattan at Columbia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was that like when you first arrived? Did you have, was it a big training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. I don't know what the numbers were for Nigeria 11. You'll be able to find out. But it was a pretty large group and they were folks that were coming from all over the country, you know, and different universities. It was an education program. We were all pretty much going into secondary education or teacher training. Some people had more, maybe master's degrees or had certificates in education. And so some, yeah, some were teaching teachers. But I was not. And I knew pretty early on that I was going to be, I don't remember exactly when we were told our assignments, because those kept shifting. But I think I knew fairly early on that I was going to be going to southwestern Nigeria, to Yoruba country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you being trained in the Yoruba language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.967870436901718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was that like when you first arrived? Did you have, was it a big training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. I don't know what the numbers were for Nigeria 11. You'll be able to find out. But it was a pretty large group and they were folks that were coming from all over the country, you know, and different universities. It was an education program. We were all pretty much going into secondary education or teacher training. Some people had more, maybe master's degrees or had certificates in education. And so some, yeah, some were teaching teachers. But I was not. And I knew pretty early on that I was going to be, I don't remember exactly when we were told our assignments, because those kept shifting. But I think I knew fairly early on that I was going to be going to southwestern Nigeria, to Yoruba country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you being trained in the Yoruba language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we started Yoruba language studies done during the training program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in small groups for languages?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.742078263224131, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. I don't know what the numbers were for Nigeria 11. You'll be able to find out. But it was a pretty large group and they were folks that were coming from all over the country, you know, and different universities. It was an education program. We were all pretty much going into secondary education or teacher training. Some people had more, maybe master's degrees or had certificates in education. And so some, yeah, some were teaching teachers. But I was not. And I knew pretty early on that I was going to be, I don't remember exactly when we were told our assignments, because those kept shifting. But I think I knew fairly early on that I was going to be going to southwestern Nigeria, to Yoruba country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you being trained in the Yoruba language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we started Yoruba language studies done during the training program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in small groups for languages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It wasn't intensive. It wasn't intensive enough because we were there. You know, we had lots of other things to do and New York City was a distraction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I suppose so, yeah. But of course, it's not only language that you’re studying, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.602309181360145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we started Yoruba language studies done during the training program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in small groups for languages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It wasn't intensive. It wasn't intensive enough because we were there. You know, we had lots of other things to do and New York City was a distraction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I suppose so, yeah. But of course, it's not only language that you’re studying, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you find that the language instruction was, although maybe there wasn't enough of it, was it good?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.558121312622383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It wasn't intensive. It wasn't intensive enough because we were there. You know, we had lots of other things to do and New York City was a distraction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I suppose so, yeah. But of course, it's not only language that you’re studying, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you find that the language instruction was, although maybe there wasn't enough of it, was it good?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good. It was good for what it was, for the short time that we had it. And I enjoyed learning languages. That was something that came with. So that was, I appreciated it very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had native speakers of Yoruba?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.509023680691536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you find that the language instruction was, although maybe there wasn't enough of it, was it good?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good. It was good for what it was, for the short time that we had it. And I enjoyed learning languages. That was something that came with. So that was, I appreciated it very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had native speakers of Yoruba?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did and we had audio tapes I think. There was a Yoruba language program that had already been developed through the Peace Corps. And the training staff were great. In fact, I reconnected with two of the people on the staff who were themselves Peace Corps volunteers in Ghana, I think, and Sierra Leone earlier on, early groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember their names?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.2249981902490195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one is Gary Schultz, who is still very active and just recently this past year got a chieftaincy title in Sierra Leone and is helping with this Ebola crisis right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he's still very much the model of a volunteer who has this connection with other cultures and other people and trying to help in one way or another. And the other was John Fanselow, who was in education at that point, I think, in one of the first groups to Ghana, and the two of them became very close friends and mentors to me. And I tried to keep in touch with John Fanselow, I think, still lives and teaches in Japan and has for many, many years. Yeah, but he was, I think he was for a while a faculty member at Teachers College."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Columbia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Columbia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in addition to studying Yoruba language, what else what other things were covered in Peace Corps training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.805553544721133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he's still very much the model of a volunteer who has this connection with other cultures and other people and trying to help in one way or another. And the other was John Fanselow, who was in education at that point, I think, in one of the first groups to Ghana, and the two of them became very close friends and mentors to me. And I tried to keep in touch with John Fanselow, I think, still lives and teaches in Japan and has for many, many years. Yeah, but he was, I think he was for a while a faculty member at Teachers College."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Columbia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Columbia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in addition to studying Yoruba language, what else what other things were covered in Peace Corps training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was learning about the politics of Nigeria and aspects of culture and what the culture of secondary school teaching was, what our expectations might be, how we might be most useful, that kind of thing. Um, it was just trying to immerse ourselves in the cultural world that we were going to be a part of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And teacher training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.450615049690147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Columbia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in addition to studying Yoruba language, what else what other things were covered in Peace Corps training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was learning about the politics of Nigeria and aspects of culture and what the culture of secondary school teaching was, what our expectations might be, how we might be most useful, that kind of thing. Um, it was just trying to immerse ourselves in the cultural world that we were going to be a part of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And teacher training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Teacher training. Yes, yes. Yes, we did that too. We had to teach a course. We had to do teaching demonstrations. And we were graded strictly on those for success or lack, lack thereof. And yeah. So that was an important part as well, because most of us were liberal arts graduates with no training in teaching. So that was a crucial element to it. And so that's the faculty at Teachers College, as well as those who are on the teacher training program and the Peace Corps training program were wonderful professionals in that regard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there also a physical education component to this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.1673500552112746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was learning about the politics of Nigeria and aspects of culture and what the culture of secondary school teaching was, what our expectations might be, how we might be most useful, that kind of thing. Um, it was just trying to immerse ourselves in the cultural world that we were going to be a part of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And teacher training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Teacher training. Yes, yes. Yes, we did that too. We had to teach a course. We had to do teaching demonstrations. And we were graded strictly on those for success or lack, lack thereof. And yeah. So that was an important part as well, because most of us were liberal arts graduates with no training in teaching. So that was a crucial element to it. And so that's the faculty at Teachers College, as well as those who are on the teacher training program and the Peace Corps training program were wonderful professionals in that regard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there also a physical education component to this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not that was, no. I mean, it was a minor part of it. And the funny thing about that element of the training program was that they were preparing us to participate as games masters at our schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the games there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.74150006134586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Teacher training. Yes, yes. Yes, we did that too. We had to teach a course. We had to do teaching demonstrations. And we were graded strictly on those for success or lack, lack thereof. And yeah. So that was an important part as well, because most of us were liberal arts graduates with no training in teaching. So that was a crucial element to it. And so that's the faculty at Teachers College, as well as those who are on the teacher training program and the Peace Corps training program were wonderful professionals in that regard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there also a physical education component to this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not that was, no. I mean, it was a minor part of it. And the funny thing about that element of the training program was that they were preparing us to participate as games masters at our schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the games there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the games there, of course. Well, in the elite schools of Nigeria still at that time, what was the major sport? Cricket. One afternoon they take us down to Riverside Park, set up a cricket pitch, and then try to teach us the rules and regulations of cricket in the anticipation that some of us might be asked to be coaches for the cricket team. And the same thing with soccer, with football, because that was also a big sport. So it was physical education, was brought into the training program in that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Preparing you to be a teacher of it or a coordinator of sports."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.379444512606511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not that was, no. I mean, it was a minor part of it. And the funny thing about that element of the training program was that they were preparing us to participate as games masters at our schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the games there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the games there, of course. Well, in the elite schools of Nigeria still at that time, what was the major sport? Cricket. One afternoon they take us down to Riverside Park, set up a cricket pitch, and then try to teach us the rules and regulations of cricket in the anticipation that some of us might be asked to be coaches for the cricket team. And the same thing with soccer, with football, because that was also a big sport. So it was physical education, was brought into the training program in that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Preparing you to be a teacher of it or a coordinator of sports."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not necessarily to get you physically fit."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.088271680673901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the games there, of course. Well, in the elite schools of Nigeria still at that time, what was the major sport? Cricket. One afternoon they take us down to Riverside Park, set up a cricket pitch, and then try to teach us the rules and regulations of cricket in the anticipation that some of us might be asked to be coaches for the cricket team. And the same thing with soccer, with football, because that was also a big sport. So it was physical education, was brought into the training program in that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Preparing you to be a teacher of it or a coordinator of sports."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not necessarily to get you physically fit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Not really, no. It was a New York City experience, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some Peace Corps early programs had people doing Outward Bound survival exercises in Puerto Rico."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.750952692190001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Not really, no. It was a New York City experience, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some Peace Corps early programs had people doing Outward Bound survival exercises in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No we didn't, you know, we just had to survive Manhattan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, and then, back then, most Peace Corps programs had the big ogre of deselection hanging over everybody’s shoulders. Was that your experience, too, that they told you that only a certain, that there would be some fraction of your group that would not go over?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.7232807691, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No we didn't, you know, we just had to survive Manhattan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, and then, back then, most Peace Corps programs had the big ogre of deselection hanging over everybody’s shoulders. Was that your experience, too, that they told you that only a certain, that there would be some fraction of your group that would not go over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was kind of, yeah. It was kind of, you know, hovering, um, throughout the training program. And there were, of course, rumors going around about who was going to survive and who was going to be deselected and what some of the reasons for that might be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have psychologists coming to interview you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.781828110000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was kind of, yeah. It was kind of, you know, hovering, um, throughout the training program. And there were, of course, rumors going around about who was going to survive and who was going to be deselected and what some of the reasons for that might be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have psychologists coming to interview you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as a matter of fact. I haven't thought about this in a long time, but I do remember that that was part of the selection, the so-called deselection process. Um, and I wasn't very happy about that. And I think I have to say that I had very mixed feelings about my identity as both an individual who has his own political and philosophical perspectives and those of my so-called, my government, okay?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I, as a Peace Corps volunteer, was also representing my country. And over the years, the distance between my own political philosophy and approach to life and action is very, very different from that of my government. And it was starting to be that in the ‘60s during that time. So I had kind of mixed feelings about it, but I still felt that I could contribute something and that I would ultimately be judged as an individual by the people I was going to live with. And so I thought I could still do it, but I had mixed feelings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although initially you have to be judged by the gate keepers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.8686979, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as a matter of fact. I haven't thought about this in a long time, but I do remember that that was part of the selection, the so-called deselection process. Um, and I wasn't very happy about that. And I think I have to say that I had very mixed feelings about my identity as both an individual who has his own political and philosophical perspectives and those of my so-called, my government, okay?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I, as a Peace Corps volunteer, was also representing my country. And over the years, the distance between my own political philosophy and approach to life and action is very, very different from that of my government. And it was starting to be that in the ‘60s during that time. So I had kind of mixed feelings about it, but I still felt that I could contribute something and that I would ultimately be judged as an individual by the people I was going to live with. And so I thought I could still do it, but I had mixed feelings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although initially you have to be judged by the gate keepers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I didn’t appreciate that. That’s right. I didn’t appreciate that, because many of them were, you know, kind of, you know, representatives of government and of policies that I didn't agree with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there American studies as part of your training program kind of making it clear what you are to say about communism while abroad?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.076331, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I, as a Peace Corps volunteer, was also representing my country. And over the years, the distance between my own political philosophy and approach to life and action is very, very different from that of my government. And it was starting to be that in the ‘60s during that time. So I had kind of mixed feelings about it, but I still felt that I could contribute something and that I would ultimately be judged as an individual by the people I was going to live with. And so I thought I could still do it, but I had mixed feelings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although initially you have to be judged by the gate keepers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I didn’t appreciate that. That’s right. I didn’t appreciate that, because many of them were, you know, kind of, you know, representatives of government and of policies that I didn't agree with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there American studies as part of your training program kind of making it clear what you are to say about communism while abroad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if they did discuss it, I ignored it, essentially. There wasn't much of that. We were mostly, what I put my emphasis and focus upon was learning as much as I could about the people and the place I was going to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did training give you what you needed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.862590000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I didn’t appreciate that. That’s right. I didn’t appreciate that, because many of them were, you know, kind of, you know, representatives of government and of policies that I didn't agree with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there American studies as part of your training program kind of making it clear what you are to say about communism while abroad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if they did discuss it, I ignored it, essentially. There wasn't much of that. We were mostly, what I put my emphasis and focus upon was learning as much as I could about the people and the place I was going to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did training give you what you needed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, yeah. I mean yeah, it started to. I think they did what they could in the time that we had. And I remember that that summer of ‘64, um, what was taking place in another part of New York City? The World's Fair. And the World's Fair, which was in Queens, had a Nigerian pavilion. And so I with my family, went to visit it to learn some more about the place I was going to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you see there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.625100000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if they did discuss it, I ignored it, essentially. There wasn't much of that. We were mostly, what I put my emphasis and focus upon was learning as much as I could about the people and the place I was going to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did training give you what you needed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, yeah. I mean yeah, it started to. I think they did what they could in the time that we had. And I remember that that summer of ‘64, um, what was taking place in another part of New York City? The World's Fair. And the World's Fair, which was in Queens, had a Nigerian pavilion. And so I with my family, went to visit it to learn some more about the place I was going to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you see there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it was, what was it? It was food. It was, you know, presentation of food, the history. There were cultural performances, dances, music, and so on. Fashion. And there were displays of the products that were being made by Nigerians and something of its government and, you know, its face to the rest of the world as a newly independent nation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they present a particular culture, Nigerian culture, or were they attempting to be representative of several?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, yeah. I mean yeah, it started to. I think they did what they could in the time that we had. And I remember that that summer of ‘64, um, what was taking place in another part of New York City? The World's Fair. And the World's Fair, which was in Queens, had a Nigerian pavilion. And so I with my family, went to visit it to learn some more about the place I was going to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you see there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it was, what was it? It was food. It was, you know, presentation of food, the history. There were cultural performances, dances, music, and so on. Fashion. And there were displays of the products that were being made by Nigerians and something of its government and, you know, its face to the rest of the world as a newly independent nation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they present a particular culture, Nigerian culture, or were they attempting to be representative of several?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think at that point, they were trying to represent maybe the three major groups, Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo, at that point. And talking about cultural diversity, but unity within, you know, the Nigerian nation and so on. So it was an interesting experience. And essentially some of my first encounters with Nigerians was at that World's Fair because before that time, I had no connection to Nigeria or Nigerians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the fair in Queens, but you also had Nigerians as part of the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 5.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it was, what was it? It was food. It was, you know, presentation of food, the history. There were cultural performances, dances, music, and so on. Fashion. And there were displays of the products that were being made by Nigerians and something of its government and, you know, its face to the rest of the world as a newly independent nation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they present a particular culture, Nigerian culture, or were they attempting to be representative of several?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think at that point, they were trying to represent maybe the three major groups, Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo, at that point. And talking about cultural diversity, but unity within, you know, the Nigerian nation and so on. So it was an interesting experience. And essentially some of my first encounters with Nigerians was at that World's Fair because before that time, I had no connection to Nigeria or Nigerians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the fair in Queens, but you also had Nigerians as part of the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. They would come and present and language instruction. So, yes, of course. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your training started in September of 1964?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think at that point, they were trying to represent maybe the three major groups, Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo, at that point. And talking about cultural diversity, but unity within, you know, the Nigerian nation and so on. So it was an interesting experience. And essentially some of my first encounters with Nigerians was at that World's Fair because before that time, I had no connection to Nigeria or Nigerians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the fair in Queens, but you also had Nigerians as part of the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. They would come and present and language instruction. So, yes, of course. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your training started in September of 1964?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I started at the beginning of the summer. By August we were on our way to Nigeria. I don't remember the exact dates, but we arrived in Nigeria, I think it was in August, and those of us who were in the southwestern part of Nigeria went to Ibadan and we had some initial orientation there at the University of Ibadan and the Peace Corps office for the western region."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember who some of those people were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I started at the beginning of the summer. By August we were on our way to Nigeria. I don't remember the exact dates, but we arrived in Nigeria, I think it was in August, and those of us who were in the southwestern part of Nigeria went to Ibadan and we had some initial orientation there at the University of Ibadan and the Peace Corps office for the western region."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember who some of those people were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I've been trying to remember some of the names. So one of the women in the office was Alice, but I can’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alice O'Grady."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Alice O'Grady, of course!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A friend of mine."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00019:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I've been trying to remember some of the names. So one of the women in the office was Alice, but I can’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alice O'Grady."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Alice O'Grady, of course!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A friend of mine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that right? I loved Alice. Yeah, she was special. And the director at that point, I can't remember his name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a John, no. Oh, there was a Catholic priest whose name escapes me."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.471823975780062, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Peoria, Illinois, and I had three older brothers and one younger sister. And I went to the same grade school. And then I went to the same high school that I met my husband and had an interesting childhood, let's put it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the schools you went to were public schools?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I guess my claim to fame in high school is that I was interested in leadership and I was elected president of the student council when I was a senior."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Well, let's go back a little before you were a senior in high school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.413137750866735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I guess my claim to fame in high school is that I was interested in leadership and I was elected president of the student council when I was a senior."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Well, let's go back a little before you were a senior in high school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had, how many siblings did you say you had?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.459041945407483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I guess my claim to fame in high school is that I was interested in leadership and I was elected president of the student council when I was a senior."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Well, let's go back a little before you were a senior in high school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had, how many siblings did you say you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three older brothers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three older brothers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.621157717119425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had, how many siblings did you say you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three older brothers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three older brothers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. And one younger sister."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so there were five of you. Seven all together counting your parents."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.912397463466029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three older brothers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three older brothers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. And one younger sister."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so there were five of you. Seven all together counting your parents."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Boy, that's a lot to cram into a car. Did you ever take trips together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.902663848295587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. And one younger sister."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so there were five of you. Seven all together counting your parents."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Boy, that's a lot to cram into a car. Did you ever take trips together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, good question. Yes, we did. My dad worked for Caterpillar Tractor in Peoria, and in August, I believe the vacation period was always in August, we would go up to either Wisconsin or Minnesota. My dad loved to fish, and that was sort of the, you know, the relaxation of his work life was to take the family up to a resort, you know, a modest resort. And it was a lot of fun. I have good memories of that. The driving, not so much, the driving was not so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were kind of some, you were really squeezed in there. In a station wagon?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.89184872032843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Boy, that's a lot to cram into a car. Did you ever take trips together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, good question. Yes, we did. My dad worked for Caterpillar Tractor in Peoria, and in August, I believe the vacation period was always in August, we would go up to either Wisconsin or Minnesota. My dad loved to fish, and that was sort of the, you know, the relaxation of his work life was to take the family up to a resort, you know, a modest resort. And it was a lot of fun. I have good memories of that. The driving, not so much, the driving was not so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were kind of some, you were really squeezed in there. In a station wagon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't. We had big cars. We had big four door cars. One of them was a Cadillac. I remember that. My dad liked to have big cars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your traveling with the family as a child was mostly within the United States?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.989936691763491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't. We had big cars. We had big four door cars. One of them was a Cadillac. I remember that. My dad liked to have big cars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your traveling with the family as a child was mostly within the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Indianapolis one time when I was in high school. I went to Chicago for a leadership conference. But other than that, no, we stayed. We stayed in Peoria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peoria and Minnesota."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.09992965751499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Indianapolis one time when I was in high school. I went to Chicago for a leadership conference. But other than that, no, we stayed. We stayed in Peoria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peoria and Minnesota."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And local trips."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.333255175016655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Indianapolis one time when I was in high school. I went to Chicago for a leadership conference. But other than that, no, we stayed. We stayed in Peoria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peoria and Minnesota."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And local trips."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you get to high school and there was a guy named Joe there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.658339722242783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you get to high school and there was a guy named Joe there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We were friends from the get-go. We both got elected to student council when we were freshmen. And we were in the same homeroom for four years. And it was a very kind of a dramatic time. One of our older classmates was accidentally shot by her boyfriend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was 14. I think she was 16 or 17. And it was, you know, it was one of those life events that never had anything like that happened. And it was just shocking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. What year of high school was then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.590542866966397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was 14. I think she was 16 or 17. And it was, you know, it was one of those life events that never had anything like that happened. And it was just shocking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. What year of high school was then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was '63."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, no. I graduated in '62. It must have been '59 or '60."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. So you were maybe a sophomore in high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.545047629962662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was '63."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, no. I graduated in '62. It must have been '59 or '60."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. So you were maybe a sophomore in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, that's a hard thing to experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.60560847773629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, no. I graduated in '62. It must have been '59 or '60."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. So you were maybe a sophomore in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, that's a hard thing to experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in high school, you were active, you were in the student council. Did you study a foreign language in high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.228453864151433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, that's a hard thing to experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in high school, you were active, you were in the student council. Did you study a foreign language in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I had Spanish and I had a teacher named Zrizina Steppitis who is not Spanish. She was Eastern European, but she was a very hands-on teacher. And I loved speaking Spanish. I took French later when I was in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had four years of Spanish in high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.920504293501592, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in high school, you were active, you were in the student council. Did you study a foreign language in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I had Spanish and I had a teacher named Zrizina Steppitis who is not Spanish. She was Eastern European, but she was a very hands-on teacher. And I loved speaking Spanish. I took French later when I was in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had four years of Spanish in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I had three. I think I started when I was a sophomore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh, uh huh. And what other things did you enjoy in high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.578338103890657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I had Spanish and I had a teacher named Zrizina Steppitis who is not Spanish. She was Eastern European, but she was a very hands-on teacher. And I loved speaking Spanish. I took French later when I was in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had four years of Spanish in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I had three. I think I started when I was a sophomore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh, uh huh. And what other things did you enjoy in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really liked English. That was one of my favorite topics. And I also was artistic, so I enjoyed art classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. I can picture that. And did you play sports?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.198153448767397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I had three. I think I started when I was a sophomore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh, uh huh. And what other things did you enjoy in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really liked English. That was one of my favorite topics. And I also was artistic, so I enjoyed art classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. I can picture that. And did you play sports?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. No, no. Not sportsy at all. I was four foot ten. I was one of the shortest people in my class. There were maybe a couple of other girls were in that range, but I always considered sports to be out of my league just because I was so short."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, but what a shame."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.886837165297107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really liked English. That was one of my favorite topics. And I also was artistic, so I enjoyed art classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. I can picture that. And did you play sports?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. No, no. Not sportsy at all. I was four foot ten. I was one of the shortest people in my class. There were maybe a couple of other girls were in that range, but I always considered sports to be out of my league just because I was so short."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, but what a shame."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I grew later, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. You're a little taller than that now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.6520412947745635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. No, no. Not sportsy at all. I was four foot ten. I was one of the shortest people in my class. There were maybe a couple of other girls were in that range, but I always considered sports to be out of my league just because I was so short."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, but what a shame."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I grew later, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. You're a little taller than that now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five two, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then, um, but you were, you started, you were starting to date Joe somewhere towards the end of high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.50226810530507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I grew later, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. You're a little taller than that now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five two, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then, um, but you were, you started, you were starting to date Joe somewhere towards the end of high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. We were mostly friends. I think maybe we went out one time, but it was pretty much more of a friendship. And one thing I did want to talk about that was important to me in high school was that I was a candy striper as a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a hospital?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.2247423392278565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five two, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then, um, but you were, you started, you were starting to date Joe somewhere towards the end of high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. We were mostly friends. I think maybe we went out one time, but it was pretty much more of a friendship. And one thing I did want to talk about that was important to me in high school was that I was a candy striper as a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a hospital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually, it was in a home called the Schlarman Home in Peoria. It was run by Catholic nuns, and it was for children who'd been given up for birth for various reasons. The least difficult reason was one little boy had a port wine stain on his face which disfigured him. It was just something that happens to the pigment of the skin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And his mother gave him up because of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.339188073120811, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually, it was in a home called the Schlarman Home in Peoria. It was run by Catholic nuns, and it was for children who'd been given up for birth for various reasons. The least difficult reason was one little boy had a port wine stain on his face which disfigured him. It was just something that happens to the pigment of the skin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And his mother gave him up because of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There probably were other reasons. But, you know, I was 14 or 15 at the time when I was encountering this, and I just thought it was so strange. Many of the children had Down syndrome, which in those days when you had a Down syndrome baby, it was considered to be, um, something that you wouldn't deal with as a family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So these little babies would stay in the Schlarman Home with the nuns until they were five years old. And then they would go to a state institution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An orphanage of some sort. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.821320081245346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There probably were other reasons. But, you know, I was 14 or 15 at the time when I was encountering this, and I just thought it was so strange. Many of the children had Down syndrome, which in those days when you had a Down syndrome baby, it was considered to be, um, something that you wouldn't deal with as a family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So these little babies would stay in the Schlarman Home with the nuns until they were five years old. And then they would go to a state institution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An orphanage of some sort. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Schlarman Home was just a little building. I can't remember how many children were there at one time, like maybe 20 to 30. And the nuns did everything. They cooked, they cleaned, and they made me feel welcome. I know that. I felt really welcome, even though it was a strange environment for a 14 or 15 year old girl. And one of the nuns, I thought she was very insightful with the little boy with the port wine. She said, you know, he just needs to be held. If you can just rock him and talk to him, that would be really important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because apart from this superficial stain on his face, he was a normal kid?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.357022312494828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So these little babies would stay in the Schlarman Home with the nuns until they were five years old. And then they would go to a state institution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An orphanage of some sort. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Schlarman Home was just a little building. I can't remember how many children were there at one time, like maybe 20 to 30. And the nuns did everything. They cooked, they cleaned, and they made me feel welcome. I know that. I felt really welcome, even though it was a strange environment for a 14 or 15 year old girl. And one of the nuns, I thought she was very insightful with the little boy with the port wine. She said, you know, he just needs to be held. If you can just rock him and talk to him, that would be really important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because apart from this superficial stain on his face, he was a normal kid?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was totally normal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, gee. So you would go there and you'd hold this little child and play with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9522470138831425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Schlarman Home was just a little building. I can't remember how many children were there at one time, like maybe 20 to 30. And the nuns did everything. They cooked, they cleaned, and they made me feel welcome. I know that. I felt really welcome, even though it was a strange environment for a 14 or 15 year old girl. And one of the nuns, I thought she was very insightful with the little boy with the port wine. She said, you know, he just needs to be held. If you can just rock him and talk to him, that would be really important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because apart from this superficial stain on his face, he was a normal kid?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was totally normal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, gee. So you would go there and you'd hold this little child and play with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And others and help feed the kids. They ate in small groups and round tables. I can remember helping feed them, but mostly I was just, I think I was just agog at these nuns because of their service. And they were very, um, cheerful about it. Occasionally they would get to take vacations, but it would be one at a time because they couldn't afford to have all of them go at one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right. They needed to maintain the, keep those babies fed."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.613607793203491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was totally normal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, gee. So you would go there and you'd hold this little child and play with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And others and help feed the kids. They ate in small groups and round tables. I can remember helping feed them, but mostly I was just, I think I was just agog at these nuns because of their service. And they were very, um, cheerful about it. Occasionally they would get to take vacations, but it would be one at a time because they couldn't afford to have all of them go at one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right. They needed to maintain the, keep those babies fed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that was kind of an eye opener."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did that for all four years of high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.072164325382017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember if it was four years. It was probably less than that. I also had part time jobs. I worked in retail, like local department stores. I worked in a bridal shop. And so when I went to college, I was going through rush. Some girl said, oh, a bridal shop. Do you enjoy working with horses? I said, no, no. It was wedding clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other thing our student council did, we tried to do things for the community and we, um, I remember doing this with Joe, was we would put together food baskets at Christmastime and deliver them to the projects in Peoria. I don't remember the names of the projects, but I can remember that experience and going into people's homes and being welcomed and just kind of seeing that other side of life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I hadn't seen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Projects in Peoria. The people would be obviously poor. Were they all, were they of a uniform racial group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.200202870841995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I hadn't seen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Projects in Peoria. The people would be obviously poor. Were they all, were they of a uniform racial group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly Black."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mostly Black."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, good for you for doing all that volunteer work. And then you decided to, uh, Joe went off to Yale."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.444669856491105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly Black."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mostly Black."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, good for you for doing all that volunteer work. And then you decided to, uh, Joe went off to Yale."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you went to school too somewhere?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.716299840545672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, good for you for doing all that volunteer work. And then you decided to, uh, Joe went off to Yale."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you went to school too somewhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the University of Illinois."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "University of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.129222045050746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you went to school too somewhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the University of Illinois."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "University of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you would have lived on campus?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.64101487043302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you would have lived on campus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived in the sorority house, the Kappa Kappa Gamma house at 1102 South Lincoln. That's where you'll find the Kappas at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still remember those lyrics. Anyway, I met three women there who are my friends still. Mary Jean, Nancy Jo, and Mary Sue. They all had double names."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you were Beverly Jean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.952600327097493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then in the spring of that year, Joe and I got together for a prom or some gala, and I never went back home. I just left everything at school. And we eloped and got married and had already applied for Peace Corps. It was a very kind of drastic and sudden thing, but a lot of it was a result of my personal upset in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was just really ready to get on with something different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, so that's what I did. It feels, I feel badly about it now, but at the time it seemed like it was such a smart thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, when I look at how your life has unfolded since then, I think it was a smart thing to do. You and Joe are still together. You've got four wonderful kids. Um, so just a little bit more time about University of Illinois. You mentioned earlier that you studied French there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.502889252330548, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was just really ready to get on with something different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, so that's what I did. It feels, I feel badly about it now, but at the time it seemed like it was such a smart thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, when I look at how your life has unfolded since then, I think it was a smart thing to do. You and Joe are still together. You've got four wonderful kids. Um, so just a little bit more time about University of Illinois. You mentioned earlier that you studied French there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I started out, I was in elementary education. I did take French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A couple of French courses, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.805060702785388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that wasn't a mainstream. I finally ended up in art history. I really didn't like the elementary education courses at that time. It was a funny time in the sixties, the early sixties, they were changing curriculum standards and new math was coming into play. There was a lot of, uh, controversy over how to teach children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, I don't know, I just, I really liked art and I liked history, so art history seemed like a logical way to go. So I think I have a minor in art history. When I finally graduated, I had a major in psychology and a minor in art history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Art history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I went to school after I came back from Peace Corps. That's when I finished my degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yeah, okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.227845225317098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, I don't know, I just, I really liked art and I liked history, so art history seemed like a logical way to go. So I think I have a minor in art history. When I finally graduated, I had a major in psychology and a minor in art history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Art history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I went to school after I came back from Peace Corps. That's when I finished my degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I got a master's degree, so I stretched it out until I was like about 30 years old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I'm going to turn this off for a moment. [tape break] Okay. We're recording again now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.6976058059078865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I went to school after I came back from Peace Corps. That's when I finished my degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I got a master's degree, so I stretched it out until I was like about 30 years old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I'm going to turn this off for a moment. [tape break] Okay. We're recording again now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you and Joe have been corresponding for a while?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.79951334062702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you and Joe have been corresponding for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Actually, he was very supportive when my brother committed suicide. His father, and I didn't know this at the time, his father's mother had been hospitalized many times during her life. This is Joe's grandmother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had never talked to Joe about this or anything. But anyway, his father saw it in the paper that my brother had died. So he called Joe and he said, you ought to call her. So Joe was one of the few people from my past, from high school, who did call and check up on me. And we, we remained friends. Whenever he was in town, he would call me. When he came to University of Illinois, we would spend time together. So that was sort of how our friendship matured and turned into romance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew each other quite well, having both served on the student council in high school for all those years."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9253251118852095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had never talked to Joe about this or anything. But anyway, his father saw it in the paper that my brother had died. So he called Joe and he said, you ought to call her. So Joe was one of the few people from my past, from high school, who did call and check up on me. And we, we remained friends. Whenever he was in town, he would call me. When he came to University of Illinois, we would spend time together. So that was sort of how our friendship matured and turned into romance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew each other quite well, having both served on the student council in high school for all those years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Well, we actually we ran for president against each other, and Joe became the vice president and I was the president, which I richly deserved. And in fact, this is something that always sort of affected me. Dodie Hall was the young woman who was shot by her boyfriend and died, and they set up an award in her name. And I received that award at least twice during my high school career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was for being a hard-working person. And Joe received it one time. I think maybe we even received it together. It was, it was kind of weird. It was like, oh. Such a bittersweet thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you and Joe eloped?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.583694568761343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Well, we actually we ran for president against each other, and Joe became the vice president and I was the president, which I richly deserved. And in fact, this is something that always sort of affected me. Dodie Hall was the young woman who was shot by her boyfriend and died, and they set up an award in her name. And I received that award at least twice during my high school career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was for being a hard-working person. And Joe received it one time. I think maybe we even received it together. It was, it was kind of weird. It was like, oh. Such a bittersweet thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you and Joe eloped?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you in, were you visiting him out in Yale?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.671227862668324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you in, were you visiting him out in Yale?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in New Haven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had been there for probably a week, and I was supposed to go buy, I had a standby ticket, and there were no seats on the plane. So we drove back to New Haven, and on the way back we decided, well, we might as well just get married. So we did. And we, we, he had a friend who was a minister and I stayed with the minister so. I don't know why that was, but I did and, um. We got a license, we got blood tests, and we did everything that we needed to do. Fairly well organized. We found an apartment to live in. I don't know really how we did it all. And I know that at one point he had this little car and we had a mattress on the top of the car, and we were taking that to the apartment that we had just rented. That looked really nice. I don't think it was on the day of our wedding, but almost. Anyway, the wedding was very nice. We got married in a chapel at New Haven. His minister friend was the officiant and we were happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nobody from your family was there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.190253180742582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in New Haven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had been there for probably a week, and I was supposed to go buy, I had a standby ticket, and there were no seats on the plane. So we drove back to New Haven, and on the way back we decided, well, we might as well just get married. So we did. And we, we, he had a friend who was a minister and I stayed with the minister so. I don't know why that was, but I did and, um. We got a license, we got blood tests, and we did everything that we needed to do. Fairly well organized. We found an apartment to live in. I don't know really how we did it all. And I know that at one point he had this little car and we had a mattress on the top of the car, and we were taking that to the apartment that we had just rented. That looked really nice. I don't think it was on the day of our wedding, but almost. Anyway, the wedding was very nice. We got married in a chapel at New Haven. His minister friend was the officiant and we were happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nobody from your family was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nobody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they feel about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.40771997622541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nobody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they feel about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's a long story, but with all of the upset in my family and my brother's suicide, my dad had been very depressed and he was kind of a loose cannon anyway. His personality was not reliable, and I think it was a relief in a way that we didn't have big wedding plans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at that point in time, it just it wasn't important to us and, uh, so that was that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then somehow the two of you decide to join the Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.911781704352094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were engaged. I think we got engaged in November of the year before we went into Peace Corps, in '67. And we had gotten accepted as single people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Individually."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was the plan to get married, but at the time I think Peace Corps could have sent us to different countries if we hadn't gotten married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when we applied, I was pretty much open to any place in the world, to tell you the truth. But we sort of mutually decided that it would be good to go to South America and go to a big city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you want to go anywhere in the first place? What drew you towards Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.23531300483566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was the plan to get married, but at the time I think Peace Corps could have sent us to different countries if we hadn't gotten married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when we applied, I was pretty much open to any place in the world, to tell you the truth. But we sort of mutually decided that it would be good to go to South America and go to a big city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you want to go anywhere in the first place? What drew you towards Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was the sixties. Um. So much was going on. I mean, if you do a timeline of all of the, you know, the Vietnam War, Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy. I mean, I'm getting those timelines mixed up. But it just seemed like there was like one upset after another. The world was changing and it suited my mood. I wanted to get the hell out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Peace Corps seemed like a good thing to do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.594792227595178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when we applied, I was pretty much open to any place in the world, to tell you the truth. But we sort of mutually decided that it would be good to go to South America and go to a big city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you want to go anywhere in the first place? What drew you towards Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was the sixties. Um. So much was going on. I mean, if you do a timeline of all of the, you know, the Vietnam War, Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy. I mean, I'm getting those timelines mixed up. But it just seemed like there was like one upset after another. The world was changing and it suited my mood. I wanted to get the hell out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Peace Corps seemed like a good thing to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know other people who had joined the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.438015095796516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know other people who had joined the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not until we actually went to training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Kennedy have anything to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.931127884218351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not until we actually went to training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Kennedy have anything to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your admiration for Kennedy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.764235780820783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Ask not what you can do for your country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that the way it goes? Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's how it went. Yes. So you're accepted into the Peace Corps. You get an invitation to train for, did you know it was going to be Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.515817534245315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Ask not what you can do for your country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that the way it goes? Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's how it went. Yes. So you're accepted into the Peace Corps. You get an invitation to train for, did you know it was going to be Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got the invitation to train?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.239797260272572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that the way it goes? Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's how it went. Yes. So you're accepted into the Peace Corps. You get an invitation to train for, did you know it was going to be Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got the invitation to train?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it was kind of like, where's Honduras and where's Goascoran?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did you, you already knew it was going to be Goascoran?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.938021308978483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it was kind of like, where's Honduras and where's Goascoran?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did you, you already knew it was going to be Goascoran?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go for training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.454347295035164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go for training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Saint Louis, Missouri."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to leave New Haven. We left New Haven in the early summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, Joe had already graduated?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.282608105594626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Saint Louis, Missouri."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to leave New Haven. We left New Haven in the early summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, Joe had already graduated?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he graduated Yale. And that was kind of like, yeah, that was very nice family get together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have to give up your apartment. You've got stuff."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.869564561771806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to leave New Haven. We left New Haven in the early summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, Joe had already graduated?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he graduated Yale. And that was kind of like, yeah, that was very nice family get together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have to give up your apartment. You've got stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a great apartment. And, uh, but you know, in those, I mean, you just take everything in stride when you're 21. What's the big deal? So we packed up and we stopped in Louisville, Kentucky, and went to a wedding of one of his classmates, which was very nice. And then we went back to Peoria, started getting ready to go to training. Our training started, I think, in probably August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family? I mean, already you've eloped, but now you're telling your family that you're going into the Peace Corps, you're going to Central America."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.5217384019686735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he graduated Yale. And that was kind of like, yeah, that was very nice family get together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have to give up your apartment. You've got stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a great apartment. And, uh, but you know, in those, I mean, you just take everything in stride when you're 21. What's the big deal? So we packed up and we stopped in Louisville, Kentucky, and went to a wedding of one of his classmates, which was very nice. And then we went back to Peoria, started getting ready to go to training. Our training started, I think, in probably August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family? I mean, already you've eloped, but now you're telling your family that you're going into the Peace Corps, you're going to Central America."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both families were amazingly supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they? Good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.135264891076304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a great apartment. And, uh, but you know, in those, I mean, you just take everything in stride when you're 21. What's the big deal? So we packed up and we stopped in Louisville, Kentucky, and went to a wedding of one of his classmates, which was very nice. And then we went back to Peoria, started getting ready to go to training. Our training started, I think, in probably August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family? I mean, already you've eloped, but now you're telling your family that you're going into the Peace Corps, you're going to Central America."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both families were amazingly supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they? Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is some, lots of back stories in my family, but I think my mother always supported me. Whatever I wanted to do, it seemed like she always said that was a good idea. And my dad at that time, he was just kind of like a beaten person. He had just suffered so much and, um, I don't think he liked the idea. I think he was, he always wanted to keep me. He didn't even want me to go to Girl Scout camp when I was younger. I had to talk him into that. But I think all in all, he was proud of it and never, never argued with me about it. Never said no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your siblings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.9331479987329265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My sister was pretty young at that time. I think she was only 11. So, I mean, she was just a little girl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my older brothers were all gone. Well, there were only two left, and one was married and. Two were married actually, they had their own lives, so they didn't really weigh in very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, maybe they did behind my back, but to my face they never said anything. In fact, I had a sister-in-law, my older brother's wife, and she was a very good seamstress. So I asked her to make me five dresses of the same pattern, different colors. So she made me five very nice dresses that I wore for the entire two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness. They were just right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.481275554147696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my older brothers were all gone. Well, there were only two left, and one was married and. Two were married actually, they had their own lives, so they didn't really weigh in very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, maybe they did behind my back, but to my face they never said anything. In fact, I had a sister-in-law, my older brother's wife, and she was a very good seamstress. So I asked her to make me five dresses of the same pattern, different colors. So she made me five very nice dresses that I wore for the entire two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness. They were just right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I can remember them hanging on the little hangers. You know, see, the part about simplifying, simplifying our lives now, it really relates to that period of time where we, you know, we were limited to 200 pounds to take to Honduras. So many this, so many that, you know, clothes very simple. You had to wear dresses if you were a woman, no sandals if you were a man. That was considered to be more of a revolutionary sign, if men wore sandals. So yeah, we really had very few things and that sort of suited our mindset."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And even in training there was a limit to the amount of possessions you could take with you into training. So let's talk about training. You said, do you remember where in Saint Louis?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.979195060164106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, maybe they did behind my back, but to my face they never said anything. In fact, I had a sister-in-law, my older brother's wife, and she was a very good seamstress. So I asked her to make me five dresses of the same pattern, different colors. So she made me five very nice dresses that I wore for the entire two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness. They were just right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I can remember them hanging on the little hangers. You know, see, the part about simplifying, simplifying our lives now, it really relates to that period of time where we, you know, we were limited to 200 pounds to take to Honduras. So many this, so many that, you know, clothes very simple. You had to wear dresses if you were a woman, no sandals if you were a man. That was considered to be more of a revolutionary sign, if men wore sandals. So yeah, we really had very few things and that sort of suited our mindset."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And even in training there was a limit to the amount of possessions you could take with you into training. So let's talk about training. You said, do you remember where in Saint Louis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were in the YMCA, wherever the YMCA was, and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Downtown Saint Louis?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.532438955737896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I can remember them hanging on the little hangers. You know, see, the part about simplifying, simplifying our lives now, it really relates to that period of time where we, you know, we were limited to 200 pounds to take to Honduras. So many this, so many that, you know, clothes very simple. You had to wear dresses if you were a woman, no sandals if you were a man. That was considered to be more of a revolutionary sign, if men wore sandals. So yeah, we really had very few things and that sort of suited our mindset."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And even in training there was a limit to the amount of possessions you could take with you into training. So let's talk about training. You said, do you remember where in Saint Louis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were in the YMCA, wherever the YMCA was, and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Downtown Saint Louis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Downtown Saint Louis. Married couples were allowed to stay on one floor. We had, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had your own room?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.147154395264328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were in the YMCA, wherever the YMCA was, and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Downtown Saint Louis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Downtown Saint Louis. Married couples were allowed to stay on one floor. We had, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had your own room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had our own room and our own bathroom. And, you know, it was a very, I think it was pretty demanding in terms of a training schedule."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talk about that. What did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4968382169603642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Downtown Saint Louis. Married couples were allowed to stay on one floor. We had, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had your own room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had our own room and our own bathroom. And, you know, it was a very, I think it was pretty demanding in terms of a training schedule."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talk about that. What did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had leaders. I can't remember their specific names, but we had leaders for different areas that were being taught. The Spanish language was really the very best. We had teachers that were mostly from Colombia, and as I remember them, they were just excellent teachers and that was the majority of our day. We did other things and one of the projects that we did in Saint Louis was to go to this incredibly horrible high rise project called Pruitt-Igoe, which was eventually imploded because it was such a hellhole for human life. The gangs had taken over the elevators, so there were, there was no elevator service. So what we did as volunteers, we would go and we would meet with people, probably adults and children. We would meet at picnic tables in the common areas outside. We didn't ever go into the projects themselves. And, uh, let's see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what you would as Peace Corps trainees, you'd go to that area right in front of the projects and you'd meet with residents there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8853757966226268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had our own room and our own bathroom. And, you know, it was a very, I think it was pretty demanding in terms of a training schedule."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talk about that. What did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had leaders. I can't remember their specific names, but we had leaders for different areas that were being taught. The Spanish language was really the very best. We had teachers that were mostly from Colombia, and as I remember them, they were just excellent teachers and that was the majority of our day. We did other things and one of the projects that we did in Saint Louis was to go to this incredibly horrible high rise project called Pruitt-Igoe, which was eventually imploded because it was such a hellhole for human life. The gangs had taken over the elevators, so there were, there was no elevator service. So what we did as volunteers, we would go and we would meet with people, probably adults and children. We would meet at picnic tables in the common areas outside. We didn't ever go into the projects themselves. And, uh, let's see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what you would as Peace Corps trainees, you'd go to that area right in front of the projects and you'd meet with residents there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To do what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.317084218469585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had leaders. I can't remember their specific names, but we had leaders for different areas that were being taught. The Spanish language was really the very best. We had teachers that were mostly from Colombia, and as I remember them, they were just excellent teachers and that was the majority of our day. We did other things and one of the projects that we did in Saint Louis was to go to this incredibly horrible high rise project called Pruitt-Igoe, which was eventually imploded because it was such a hellhole for human life. The gangs had taken over the elevators, so there were, there was no elevator service. So what we did as volunteers, we would go and we would meet with people, probably adults and children. We would meet at picnic tables in the common areas outside. We didn't ever go into the projects themselves. And, uh, let's see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what you would as Peace Corps trainees, you'd go to that area right in front of the projects and you'd meet with residents there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To do what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if we were doing literacy training, maybe it was playing with children. It was, it was a variety of things. Everything was so time oriented. I mean, we didn't have much time to do this, much time. So you kind of jump from project to project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What time of year was this, summer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0951657018143015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if we were doing literacy training, maybe it was playing with children. It was, it was a variety of things. Everything was so time oriented. I mean, we didn't have much time to do this, much time. So you kind of jump from project to project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What time of year was this, summer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Summer. Hot, hot in Saint Louis. Hot and humid. Like kind of like Florida is today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, but pleasant. I mean, the camaraderie. Unpleasant in the sense of this deselection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes. What was that like? How did they, how did they do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9138075470703724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I didn't like it. And that kind of followed a pattern in my life. Like when I was in high school, there were these things called spreads. They were these exclusive groups of girls who would get together from the different grade schools, and in high school they would kind of stick together and they'd establish their identity as being all the cute girls or the fast girls, I don't know. But I said, you know, I don't really want to be a part of that. I want to be able to hobnob with whoever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Get to know people. And then in college, kind of the same thing again. I don't know why I was attracted to a sorority, but people talked me into that. I went through rush and then when I kind of realized what it was about and how girls came through year after year, and they were judged on different, you know, kind of superficial traits and abilities. I said, I'm not, I'm not doing that. I'm not going to do that at all. I will work in the kitchen. If you give me some food to prepare, I'll do that. I will be friendly and nice and smile at people. But I'm not going to do the evaluation of these girls as they walk through. And I quickly learned that there were no Blacks in our sorority, no Jews. It was all just pretty much middle, middle class white girls. And many of them, their parents, their mothers had been in that sorority. So they came in as what they were called legacies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the whole thing seemed pretty artificial to me, but I had my good friends and, you know, the three, the three double named women, we had a lot of fun. We laughed a lot and it kind of got me through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you're in Peace Corps training, some of this is coming back. Some, the deselection process is reminding you of the exclusivity in those, those groupings that that you'd experienced in high school and again in college."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1264528300781915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Get to know people. And then in college, kind of the same thing again. I don't know why I was attracted to a sorority, but people talked me into that. I went through rush and then when I kind of realized what it was about and how girls came through year after year, and they were judged on different, you know, kind of superficial traits and abilities. I said, I'm not, I'm not doing that. I'm not going to do that at all. I will work in the kitchen. If you give me some food to prepare, I'll do that. I will be friendly and nice and smile at people. But I'm not going to do the evaluation of these girls as they walk through. And I quickly learned that there were no Blacks in our sorority, no Jews. It was all just pretty much middle, middle class white girls. And many of them, their parents, their mothers had been in that sorority. So they came in as what they were called legacies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the whole thing seemed pretty artificial to me, but I had my good friends and, you know, the three, the three double named women, we had a lot of fun. We laughed a lot and it kind of got me through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you're in Peace Corps training, some of this is coming back. Some, the deselection process is reminding you of the exclusivity in those, those groupings that that you'd experienced in high school and again in college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought, oh no. I thought this was going to be different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So how did they, um, how did they do deselection? Were there, did you have interviews with psychologists?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.362725366753546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the whole thing seemed pretty artificial to me, but I had my good friends and, you know, the three, the three double named women, we had a lot of fun. We laughed a lot and it kind of got me through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you're in Peace Corps training, some of this is coming back. Some, the deselection process is reminding you of the exclusivity in those, those groupings that that you'd experienced in high school and again in college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought, oh no. I thought this was going to be different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So how did they, um, how did they do deselection? Were there, did you have interviews with psychologists?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Individual interviews? Do you remember those?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.62525040750394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought, oh no. I thought this was going to be different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So how did they, um, how did they do deselection? Were there, did you have interviews with psychologists?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Individual interviews? Do you remember those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I think I was nervous about them because of my family background. I was afraid, oh, this girl. This girl is high risk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of your brother's suicide?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1299387746962215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I think I was nervous about them because of my family background. I was afraid, oh, this girl. This girl is high risk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of your brother's suicide?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they also they actually went and interviewed my sorority sisters about my behavior when I was in college, which I thought was kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "FBI-ish or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Did you get reports that FBI had been coming around to your neighborhood where your parents lived and talked to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3665986385513573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they also they actually went and interviewed my sorority sisters about my behavior when I was in college, which I thought was kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "FBI-ish or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Did you get reports that FBI had been coming around to your neighborhood where your parents lived and talked to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Did you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, they did."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.629554042834841, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "FBI-ish or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Did you get reports that FBI had been coming around to your neighborhood where your parents lived and talked to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Did you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, they did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, maybe they did, but I never knew anything about it. Boy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and then was there a peer review?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9217267142609344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Did you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, they did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, maybe they did, but I never knew anything about it. Boy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and then was there a peer review?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to sort of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.246363015845483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, maybe they did, but I never knew anything about it. Boy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and then was there a peer review?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to sort of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Indicate whether there was anybody in your group that you thought ought not to go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.607070017606092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to sort of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Indicate whether there was anybody in your group that you thought ought not to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's hard, isn't it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.00785557511788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Indicate whether there was anybody in your group that you thought ought not to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's hard, isn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there people deselected that you in particular thought should not have been deselected? Were you, were you dismayed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8368587347134318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there people deselected that you in particular thought should not have been deselected? Were you, were you dismayed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I've kind of forgotten who the deselectees were. Some people dropped out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think a girl got pregnant. There was one who got pregnant, so she left. There was a Black prospective Peace Corps volunteer, and I think he got drafted out of Peace Corps training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my. Yeah, yeah. And was he the only Black person in the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.263176371903813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I've kind of forgotten who the deselectees were. Some people dropped out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think a girl got pregnant. There was one who got pregnant, so she left. There was a Black prospective Peace Corps volunteer, and I think he got drafted out of Peace Corps training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my. Yeah, yeah. And was he the only Black person in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were several. There were several, but, uh, he was a very nice guy, and I think it was kind of a shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. How many, how big a group was this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.736862635448682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think a girl got pregnant. There was one who got pregnant, so she left. There was a Black prospective Peace Corps volunteer, and I think he got drafted out of Peace Corps training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my. Yeah, yeah. And was he the only Black person in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were several. There were several, but, uh, he was a very nice guy, and I think it was kind of a shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. How many, how big a group was this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish I had those statistics at my fingerprints. I would say, fingertips. I think, you know, the FBI fingerprints. I'm going to say there were 40 or 50 of us at the beginning. I think there were some people who went home when we were finished with training who had not been deselected but who never came back. Somehow they had a boyfriend or girlfriend or their parents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they chose not to come back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.152069594942979, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were several. There were several, but, uh, he was a very nice guy, and I think it was kind of a shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. How many, how big a group was this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish I had those statistics at my fingerprints. I would say, fingertips. I think, you know, the FBI fingerprints. I'm going to say there were 40 or 50 of us at the beginning. I think there were some people who went home when we were finished with training who had not been deselected but who never came back. Somehow they had a boyfriend or girlfriend or their parents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they chose not to come back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then they chose not to go. On the day that we're supposed to be meeting in Miami, we're looking around and say, oh, so-and-so's not here. Oh, that's funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. So you can only assume that they chose not to go. A little bit more about training. You especially liked the way they taught Spanish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.613410661047754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish I had those statistics at my fingerprints. I would say, fingertips. I think, you know, the FBI fingerprints. I'm going to say there were 40 or 50 of us at the beginning. I think there were some people who went home when we were finished with training who had not been deselected but who never came back. Somehow they had a boyfriend or girlfriend or their parents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they chose not to come back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then they chose not to go. On the day that we're supposed to be meeting in Miami, we're looking around and say, oh, so-and-so's not here. Oh, that's funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. So you can only assume that they chose not to go. A little bit more about training. You especially liked the way they taught Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe how you were taught Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0149007344975045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then they chose not to go. On the day that we're supposed to be meeting in Miami, we're looking around and say, oh, so-and-so's not here. Oh, that's funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. So you can only assume that they chose not to go. A little bit more about training. You especially liked the way they taught Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe how you were taught Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very oral. It was conversational Spanish and lots and lots of practice. You didn't, you know, you wouldn't like put your face in the book and just read something. It was like the teacher talking to you and you answering back. And I was complimented because I had a good accent. That gave me confidence. And I'd had the two years in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So you had the grammar structure in your head?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4610008161083385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe how you were taught Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very oral. It was conversational Spanish and lots and lots of practice. You didn't, you know, you wouldn't like put your face in the book and just read something. It was like the teacher talking to you and you answering back. And I was complimented because I had a good accent. That gave me confidence. And I'd had the two years in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So you had the grammar structure in your head?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I did, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Sounds good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.956667573453709, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very oral. It was conversational Spanish and lots and lots of practice. You didn't, you know, you wouldn't like put your face in the book and just read something. It was like the teacher talking to you and you answering back. And I was complimented because I had a good accent. That gave me confidence. And I'd had the two years in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So you had the grammar structure in your head?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I did, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Sounds good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't ask me to say anything now but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in small groups learning the language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.507408414948565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I did, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Sounds good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't ask me to say anything now but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in small groups learning the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I would say 10 to 12 maybe, with one instructor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Uh huh. And what else, what else happened in training? Was there physical education stuff? Did they put you through?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.008231572165072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't ask me to say anything now but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in small groups learning the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I would say 10 to 12 maybe, with one instructor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Uh huh. And what else, what else happened in training? Was there physical education stuff? Did they put you through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did a garden. I remember doing that, planting a garden in St. Louis, and that was hot and sweaty. Yeah, we did. I think we went to gym. There was a gymnasium kind of setting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you? Were there classes about Honduran history, politics?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.56470174685008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I would say 10 to 12 maybe, with one instructor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Uh huh. And what else, what else happened in training? Was there physical education stuff? Did they put you through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did a garden. I remember doing that, planting a garden in St. Louis, and that was hot and sweaty. Yeah, we did. I think we went to gym. There was a gymnasium kind of setting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you? Were there classes about Honduran history, politics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Were there classes of American studies discussing communism?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9607797187223115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did a garden. I remember doing that, planting a garden in St. Louis, and that was hot and sweaty. Yeah, we did. I think we went to gym. There was a gymnasium kind of setting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you? Were there classes about Honduran history, politics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Were there classes of American studies discussing communism?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, probably. I don't think it was like a huge emphasis. As I'm saying, I really think that they wanted us to be able to communicate in Spanish and so that was the focus. Our director, who was Ray Swan, he had a close relationship with a woman in Honduras named Maria de la Paz Ordonez."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say he was your director, you mean once you got to Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.400866354135902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Were there classes of American studies discussing communism?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, probably. I don't think it was like a huge emphasis. As I'm saying, I really think that they wanted us to be able to communicate in Spanish and so that was the focus. Our director, who was Ray Swan, he had a close relationship with a woman in Honduras named Maria de la Paz Ordonez."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say he was your director, you mean once you got to Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, in Saint Louis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Saint Louis."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8898515045954465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, probably. I don't think it was like a huge emphasis. As I'm saying, I really think that they wanted us to be able to communicate in Spanish and so that was the focus. Our director, who was Ray Swan, he had a close relationship with a woman in Honduras named Maria de la Paz Ordonez."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say he was your director, you mean once you got to Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, in Saint Louis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Saint Louis."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But he had this what I considered to be like this very close friendship with Maria de la Paz Ordonez. And he assured us that our group was going to be taken care of royally because of that good relationship. But then something happened in their relationship. They got into some kind of debacle. And so by the time we got to Honduras, like all plans had changed and we were not as welcome as we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you had expected."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.433168338439385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, in Saint Louis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Saint Louis."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But he had this what I considered to be like this very close friendship with Maria de la Paz Ordonez. And he assured us that our group was going to be taken care of royally because of that good relationship. But then something happened in their relationship. They got into some kind of debacle. And so by the time we got to Honduras, like all plans had changed and we were not as welcome as we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you had expected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As we had been told."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had said a few minutes ago that the men were told not to wear sandals because that would make them appear to be revolutionary. And so there's a, there is a political edge to this. They had, it sounds like they had an image they wanted the Peace Corps volunteers to present."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.036853709377095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But he had this what I considered to be like this very close friendship with Maria de la Paz Ordonez. And he assured us that our group was going to be taken care of royally because of that good relationship. But then something happened in their relationship. They got into some kind of debacle. And so by the time we got to Honduras, like all plans had changed and we were not as welcome as we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you had expected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As we had been told."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had said a few minutes ago that the men were told not to wear sandals because that would make them appear to be revolutionary. And so there's a, there is a political edge to this. They had, it sounds like they had an image they wanted the Peace Corps volunteers to present."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you were not to appear."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5965041215301055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As we had been told."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had said a few minutes ago that the men were told not to wear sandals because that would make them appear to be revolutionary. And so there's a, there is a political edge to this. They had, it sounds like they had an image they wanted the Peace Corps volunteers to present."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you were not to appear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1950s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how as a woman, how were you supposed to? As a woman, how were you supposed to dress?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.218337912811228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you were not to appear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1950s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how as a woman, how were you supposed to? As a woman, how were you supposed to dress?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dresses. We were supposed to wear, you know, not fancy dresses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not blue jeans."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.9092643475680315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1950s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how as a woman, how were you supposed to? As a woman, how were you supposed to dress?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dresses. We were supposed to wear, you know, not fancy dresses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not blue jeans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't wear blue jeans. I didn't have any pants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that was pretty pre-blue jeans era."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.343627052853368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dresses. We were supposed to wear, you know, not fancy dresses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not blue jeans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't wear blue jeans. I didn't have any pants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that was pretty pre-blue jeans era."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, this was this 1968. Or '66. And even in college I don't think I wore, I mean, because it was so damn cold in the winter I would wear pants to get to class but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in that day to be told that you had to wear a skirt when you were in Honduras, it didn't seem that weird."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.620373499243052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess we just fell in line."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were so young."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we didn't want to get shipped off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, we were 21. My gosh. Is there anything else you'd like to say about training before we move on to Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.244859443603391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were so young."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we didn't want to get shipped off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, we were 21. My gosh. Is there anything else you'd like to say about training before we move on to Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I liked the camaraderie. I really did. Like once I got over kind of like who, we're going to be watched, you know, we got to talk to the shrink and maybe we won't make it. We kind of like eased into it and it was fun. And at the end of a long day, we would meet somewhere and have a drink and kind of relax. And so all in all, it was kind of a good feeling. It was kind of like being in another social group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you were able to get away at night with some of your fellow trainees."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.083483461733047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the end of the day, yeah, it seems like we took a bus to get back to the Y."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we would take this bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would sing like Guantanamera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And you'd have parties and you'd go out for drinks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.759426068592274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we would take this bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would sing like Guantanamera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And you'd have parties and you'd go out for drinks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just short parties because we were usually so dead tired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you had to get up early."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.510473409546971, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would sing like Guantanamera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And you'd have parties and you'd go out for drinks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just short parties because we were usually so dead tired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you had to get up early."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay, so then did you have a chance to go back home and say goodbye to family before going to Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.34497045505219, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just short parties because we were usually so dead tired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you had to get up early."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay, so then did you have a chance to go back home and say goodbye to family before going to Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.272189394502433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay, so then did you have a chance to go back home and say goodbye to family before going to Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let me think. Joe's parents actually came to Saint Louis. They always."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they visited you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.8579882161138155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let me think. Joe's parents actually came to Saint Louis. They always."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they visited you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they visited us when we were in training. So we had seen them at least once during that, was it eight weeks? I'm trying to think. It was July, August. And I think we went to country, in country by September or October."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your training lasted two or three months."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7752940939676733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they visited us when we were in training. So we had seen them at least once during that, was it eight weeks? I'm trying to think. It was July, August. And I think we went to country, in country by September or October."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your training lasted two or three months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two and a half months, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again, nobody ever tried to say, oh, don't do it, don't go. And Honduras at that time, compared to now, was a relatively peaceful country, albeit poor. And there was a big presence there, United Fruit Company and the American military kind of supported the Honduran military. So I think while my father was nervous about my going far away, he also his fears were allayed because it was more peaceful than."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Than some other places. Yeah. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.194771215519637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two and a half months, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again, nobody ever tried to say, oh, don't do it, don't go. And Honduras at that time, compared to now, was a relatively peaceful country, albeit poor. And there was a big presence there, United Fruit Company and the American military kind of supported the Honduran military. So I think while my father was nervous about my going far away, he also his fears were allayed because it was more peaceful than."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Than some other places. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think everybody, you know, what can you say? If it were my kids, I. The thing is, now we wouldn't be so cut off from our children if they decided to go anywhere in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, everybody's got a cell phone."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.6608569061329295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again, nobody ever tried to say, oh, don't do it, don't go. And Honduras at that time, compared to now, was a relatively peaceful country, albeit poor. And there was a big presence there, United Fruit Company and the American military kind of supported the Honduran military. So I think while my father was nervous about my going far away, he also his fears were allayed because it was more peaceful than."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Than some other places. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think everybody, you know, what can you say? If it were my kids, I. The thing is, now we wouldn't be so cut off from our children if they decided to go anywhere in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, everybody's got a cell phone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not in the, not in the 1960s."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.178729895703255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think everybody, you know, what can you say? If it were my kids, I. The thing is, now we wouldn't be so cut off from our children if they decided to go anywhere in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, everybody's got a cell phone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not in the, not in the 1960s."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had nothing. I mean, it was snail mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.754144328559172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not in the, not in the 1960s."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had nothing. I mean, it was snail mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even that was iffy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So in saying goodbye to your parents, there was that awareness that you're, you're going to be out of contact."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.869313985875521, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even that was iffy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So in saying goodbye to your parents, there was that awareness that you're, you're going to be out of contact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I realize now, you know, with my brother's death a few years before. My father was ill, he was actually in the hospital right before we left. He had had several heart attacks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when I said goodbye to him when he was in the hospital, he said, if I don't see you again. And I said, Dad, don't say that. No, I'm going to see you again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was on his mind, that he might not."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.521459984306134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I realize now, you know, with my brother's death a few years before. My father was ill, he was actually in the hospital right before we left. He had had several heart attacks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when I said goodbye to him when he was in the hospital, he said, if I don't see you again. And I said, Dad, don't say that. No, I'm going to see you again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was on his mind, that he might not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it's just the difference between, you know, the mature brain and the immature brain. I mean, he probably knew that his days were numbered and I couldn't accept that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You couldn't see that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.051185165810042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it's just the difference between, you know, the mature brain and the immature brain. I mean, he probably knew that his days were numbered and I couldn't accept that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You couldn't see that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I really wanted this adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is my getaway opportunity to do some things that were I thought exciting and to be with my husband."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you were. You were in your twenties and you were healthy and you wanted life. Yeah. So how do you get from Peoria to Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.612427962011157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I really wanted this adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is my getaway opportunity to do some things that were I thought exciting and to be with my husband."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you were. You were in your twenties and you were healthy and you wanted life. Yeah. So how do you get from Peoria to Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew from, I think Peoria, maybe went to Chicago, and went to Miami. We all met in Miami. I think we were there for one night and then the next day we flew to Honduras, which is a hop, skip and a jump. It's like going to Cuba almost."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's a short flight."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.013808846679064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is my getaway opportunity to do some things that were I thought exciting and to be with my husband."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you were. You were in your twenties and you were healthy and you wanted life. Yeah. So how do you get from Peoria to Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew from, I think Peoria, maybe went to Chicago, and went to Miami. We all met in Miami. I think we were there for one night and then the next day we flew to Honduras, which is a hop, skip and a jump. It's like going to Cuba almost."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's a short flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In fact, we looked at Cuba as we were flying in the airplane. We could see it. Yeah. So we got into Tegucigalpa, which is the capital, and I think we had several days there for orientation and then we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did it feel like to you when you got off the plane in Tegucigalpa? Was it, uh?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.459787607421182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew from, I think Peoria, maybe went to Chicago, and went to Miami. We all met in Miami. I think we were there for one night and then the next day we flew to Honduras, which is a hop, skip and a jump. It's like going to Cuba almost."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's a short flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In fact, we looked at Cuba as we were flying in the airplane. We could see it. Yeah. So we got into Tegucigalpa, which is the capital, and I think we had several days there for orientation and then we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did it feel like to you when you got off the plane in Tegucigalpa? Was it, uh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hot. Although in Tegucigalpa, it was cooler because it's mountainous. But, um, and it was the time of year where it was a little bit cooler."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay. So you weren't overpowered when you stepped off the plane."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.117678473828782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it was primitive. There was no air conditioning. I remember the smells, the smells in the street, like the sewage. The raw sewage was in the streets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Tegucigalpa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Tegucigalpa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was kind of an eye opener, nose opener. And, you know, we had more training there. And I think we were just anxious to get to our place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Let's get started."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.797420526476424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Tegucigalpa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was kind of an eye opener, nose opener. And, you know, we had more training there. And I think we were just anxious to get to our place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Let's get started."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wanted to get going. So. And saying goodbye. You know, we had to say goodbye to some of the people that we had gotten close to in Saint Louis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they were going to be sent to other parts of Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.552689473862693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was kind of an eye opener, nose opener. And, you know, we had more training there. And I think we were just anxious to get to our place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Let's get started."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wanted to get going. So. And saying goodbye. You know, we had to say goodbye to some of the people that we had gotten close to in Saint Louis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they were going to be sent to other parts of Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, we were all spread out. We were far away from anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you and Joe the only ones going to Goascoran?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.978628980077398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, we were all spread out. We were far away from anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you and Joe the only ones going to Goascoran?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And there had been one Peace Corps volunteer, I think maybe one, a female, Betty. And when we got there, I mean, they told the stories about Betty that her, maybe her morals were not quite on the up and up. You know, it was kind of, oh gosh. And they also they assumed that Joe and I were brother and sister."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, dear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So hermanas and things like that. But, yeah. We got to this, to our town, and we didn't really have a place to stay. And the local priests, they were French-Canadian priests, and they were pretty well established in Goascoran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to Goascoran?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.754032200085998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And there had been one Peace Corps volunteer, I think maybe one, a female, Betty. And when we got there, I mean, they told the stories about Betty that her, maybe her morals were not quite on the up and up. You know, it was kind of, oh gosh. And they also they assumed that Joe and I were brother and sister."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, dear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So hermanas and things like that. But, yeah. We got to this, to our town, and we didn't really have a place to stay. And the local priests, they were French-Canadian priests, and they were pretty well established in Goascoran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to Goascoran?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we took a busito."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just yourselves, on your own steam? You didn't, Peace Corps didn't take you there to introduce you to people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.461768148254318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we took a busito."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just yourselves, on your own steam? You didn't, Peace Corps didn't take you there to introduce you to people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sounds harsh, doesn't it? But, um, I don't remember that. I do remember occasionally getting visits from our directors who were in country. But that first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That arrival."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the first arrival. I don't know what Joe said. Maybe he said something else, but I just remember the standard way of getting from our little town, which was on the south coast of Honduras, to Tegucigalpa, was to go on a busito. A little Volkswagen bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a little van converted into a bus."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.401964609171465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sounds harsh, doesn't it? But, um, I don't remember that. I do remember occasionally getting visits from our directors who were in country. But that first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That arrival."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the first arrival. I don't know what Joe said. Maybe he said something else, but I just remember the standard way of getting from our little town, which was on the south coast of Honduras, to Tegucigalpa, was to go on a busito. A little Volkswagen bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a little van converted into a bus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. A van with lots of people and animals sometimes. Chickens and goats. So I think that was the standard way. And that might have been the way we got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I interrupted you. You were talking about arriving and there were the French Canadian priests."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.891071787968295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the first arrival. I don't know what Joe said. Maybe he said something else, but I just remember the standard way of getting from our little town, which was on the south coast of Honduras, to Tegucigalpa, was to go on a busito. A little Volkswagen bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a little van converted into a bus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. A van with lots of people and animals sometimes. Chickens and goats. So I think that was the standard way. And that might have been the way we got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I interrupted you. You were talking about arriving and there were the French Canadian priests."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was Father Padre Mario. He was the elder. And then there was a younger, I can't remember his name. Very, very nice priests who had been there for, I would say ten years. And, um, so they set us up in a house that was close to them, and it was an empty house, but it was close to the river which separated El Salvador and Honduras. And after we were there for about a week, just kind of camping out. I mean, I don't remember there was any conveniences. I don't even remember there was a latrine, I guess, somewhere that we used. They came and it was in the middle of a big rainstorm. And they brought who were the couple who was going to be our landlords for the next two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When they came, the priests came?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8161380098374007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was Father Padre Mario. He was the elder. And then there was a younger, I can't remember his name. Very, very nice priests who had been there for, I would say ten years. And, um, so they set us up in a house that was close to them, and it was an empty house, but it was close to the river which separated El Salvador and Honduras. And after we were there for about a week, just kind of camping out. I mean, I don't remember there was any conveniences. I don't even remember there was a latrine, I guess, somewhere that we used. They came and it was in the middle of a big rainstorm. And they brought who were the couple who was going to be our landlords for the next two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When they came, the priests came?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The priests came. They knocked on our door and they said, you know, we think for your safety, it would be better for you to move away from the river."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That there had been some, some troubles and people crossing the river to get into Honduras. The Salvadorians wanted to come to Honduras for land. They needed land. Salvador was so small."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and so they'd crossed the river."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6001703825153095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That there had been some, some troubles and people crossing the river to get into Honduras. The Salvadorians wanted to come to Honduras for land. They needed land. Salvador was so small."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and so they'd crossed the river."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we had no weapons. We were not armed in any way or, you know, we had no defense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I just remember that night, it was so, so strange, a knock on the door, and it seemed like it was dark and rainy. We picked up our suitcases. We didn't have our trunk yet, it was early on, and kind of sloshed through the streets, the muddy streets where there were no sidewalks. And got to this one room where we were very happy to live for the next two years. And standing around, there were all these little kids looking at us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your room with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.000189313905899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we had no weapons. We were not armed in any way or, you know, we had no defense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I just remember that night, it was so, so strange, a knock on the door, and it seemed like it was dark and rainy. We picked up our suitcases. We didn't have our trunk yet, it was early on, and kind of sloshed through the streets, the muddy streets where there were no sidewalks. And got to this one room where we were very happy to live for the next two years. And standing around, there were all these little kids looking at us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your room with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They were the sons and daughters of the landlord."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the landlord."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.234801622106048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They were the sons and daughters of the landlord."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the landlord."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don Jesus and Dona Maria. And so we're standing there like, okay. We don't think we had a bed. I don't know what we slept on those first few nights. We eventually had a bed made. There must have been something. There must have been a cot or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there was like a bare wood table. There were some shelves on the wall, empty, because there had been a little pulperia there at one time owned by the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's a pulperia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3720018023400533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don Jesus and Dona Maria. And so we're standing there like, okay. We don't think we had a bed. I don't know what we slept on those first few nights. We eventually had a bed made. There must have been something. There must have been a cot or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there was like a bare wood table. There were some shelves on the wall, empty, because there had been a little pulperia there at one time owned by the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's a pulperia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little store. You know, like a little variety store. Fabric, things like that. Maybe some food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this room had been a store before, now it's your dwelling place."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.693829385605004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little store. You know, like a little variety store. Fabric, things like that. Maybe some food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this room had been a store before, now it's your dwelling place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, this one room. And there was a latrine kind of way out in the back of the property."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Outside."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your room is connected to other rooms in the same building?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8820326506722265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, this one room. And there was a latrine kind of way out in the back of the property."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Outside."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your room is connected to other rooms in the same building?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a three room house. We had one whole room to ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the three rooms were all on one level?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.091147389635807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your room is connected to other rooms in the same building?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a three room house. We had one whole room to ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the three rooms were all on one level?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sort of strung out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.868514937772026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the ceiling was tejas, the clay tiles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was an opening between the room, like a triangular opening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, at the top of the wall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1872388197466957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the ceiling was tejas, the clay tiles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was an opening between the room, like a triangular opening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, at the top of the wall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so there wasn't a lot of privacy. There was a window with bars, and then it had shutters inside that you could close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But between you and the people on the other side of the wall in your same building. You could hear them and they could hear you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.823751629316908, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so there wasn't a lot of privacy. There was a window with bars, and then it had shutters inside that you could close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But between you and the people on the other side of the wall in your same building. You could hear them and they could hear you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but they're speaking Spanish. We're speaking English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a little bit of a separation there, and, um. I don't know. It just, it was like a whirlwind of culture shock in a way. And I always felt like it was going back in time 200 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You probably were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4861131226134665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a little bit of a separation there, and, um. I don't know. It just, it was like a whirlwind of culture shock in a way. And I always felt like it was going back in time 200 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You probably were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, in many ways. I mean, as we get to know people, it seemed like, you know, that they were quite dignified and had a lot of intelligence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, it was an adjustment and. You know, the Peace Corps I think was loosely organized. Let's just say that. They really didn't have strict plans for us, you know, sort of like, okay. You're young, you've got a little Spanish under your belt. You know, we're going to, we're going to look after you. But we had rules, like things that we had to do. We had to write up these reports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8734590251260737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, in many ways. I mean, as we get to know people, it seemed like, you know, that they were quite dignified and had a lot of intelligence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, it was an adjustment and. You know, the Peace Corps I think was loosely organized. Let's just say that. They really didn't have strict plans for us, you know, sort of like, okay. You're young, you've got a little Spanish under your belt. You know, we're going to, we're going to look after you. But we had rules, like things that we had to do. We had to write up these reports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I can remember typing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you have to say in the report?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.313386865742213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to talk about the leadership that we found that was already in place and how we would fit into that and how we would work ourselves out of a job eventually. Like, we never could establish ourselves as being the primary, um, movers, shakers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're supposed to be the support system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would provide some kind of expertise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, and there'd be some way for other people to take over whatever you initiated."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.903763184158015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're supposed to be the support system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would provide some kind of expertise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, and there'd be some way for other people to take over whatever you initiated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was people to people, though, when you really look, step, step back. I mean, we were very curious about them and how they live. They were very curious about us and how we were going to fit into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we talk about your jobs and the work that you did, let's talk a little bit more about your living situation there. You have landlords who live in the same building, but they, your landlord had two rooms in this house and you had the third."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.559736871286683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would provide some kind of expertise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, and there'd be some way for other people to take over whatever you initiated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was people to people, though, when you really look, step, step back. I mean, we were very curious about them and how they live. They were very curious about us and how we were going to fit into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we talk about your jobs and the work that you did, let's talk a little bit more about your living situation there. You have landlords who live in the same building, but they, your landlord had two rooms in this house and you had the third."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there were 18 people in those two rooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "18 people in two rooms. So they had a lot of children."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.177485412540759, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was people to people, though, when you really look, step, step back. I mean, we were very curious about them and how they live. They were very curious about us and how we were going to fit into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we talk about your jobs and the work that you did, let's talk a little bit more about your living situation there. You have landlords who live in the same building, but they, your landlord had two rooms in this house and you had the third."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there were 18 people in those two rooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "18 people in two rooms. So they had a lot of children."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had children. They had a grandmother, an elderly grandmother, and they had grown daughters who had children who lived with them. At least one, I can remember one granddaughter. And, um, so very social people. They really did, they were always together and the kids were always doing something. There were antics, lots of antics. Dona Maria was 39, I think, when I first met her, and she'd had at least 16 children, which just seemed unbelievable to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At age 39 to have 16 children? Wow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.419428236156399, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there were 18 people in those two rooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "18 people in two rooms. So they had a lot of children."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had children. They had a grandmother, an elderly grandmother, and they had grown daughters who had children who lived with them. At least one, I can remember one granddaughter. And, um, so very social people. They really did, they were always together and the kids were always doing something. There were antics, lots of antics. Dona Maria was 39, I think, when I first met her, and she'd had at least 16 children, which just seemed unbelievable to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At age 39 to have 16 children? Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Jesus was a musician, which I really liked. He had a band and he would play for gatherings like dances and also for funerals. And he was a trombone player. So they were very much involved in the community. I think they were liberal Democrats. I think that's what they called themselves. And I think Jesus had run for office, you know, over time.\n\nDona Blaca was just a force of nature. You can imagine. I can't tell you all the things that she showed me that, you know, were kind of progressive for her. She had, they had a truck called La Rapida, which means the fast one. And it was anything but that. It was old. You know, I have pictures of it, but it was a real old truck and it had storage space on it where they could take things into market. I don't even know what all they took, if they took other people's goods to sell in Tegucigalpa or other little towns. But anyway, she was always on that truck. And I'll tell you this. Remind me, there's a really good story I need to tell later on. But she knew how to fix that truck. She had her head underneath the hood of the truck."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That breaks the image, doesn't it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7103054008643648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I couldn't believe that. Like, what? You're saying that in front of him, that he's going to die?\n\nSo what happened was miraculous. The visiting nurse, there was no regular nurse that lived in Honduras, but a visiting nurse came through. She came in and saw him. She got really mad at them for not doing something for his ill health, sent the people out in the family to get a female iguana and slice it open, take the eggs, mash them up and cook them and start feeding him small portions of this high protein food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And sure enough, he recovered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Iguana eggs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Iguana. Female iguana eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eggs. I'm speechless at the story because kwashiorkor. You don't get kwashiorkor unless you're not eating sufficient nutrients."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7892282231826275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And sure enough, he recovered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Iguana eggs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Iguana. Female iguana eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eggs. I'm speechless at the story because kwashiorkor. You don't get kwashiorkor unless you're not eating sufficient nutrients."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he had diarrhea because they all had parasites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. Okay, so that was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8769202479806972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Iguana. Female iguana eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eggs. I'm speechless at the story because kwashiorkor. You don't get kwashiorkor unless you're not eating sufficient nutrients."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he had diarrhea because they all had parasites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. Okay, so that was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was washing him out. So there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9743558310896636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he had diarrhea because they all had parasites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. Okay, so that was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was washing him out. So there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have pictures of him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The distended belly."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0826175900996262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was washing him out. So there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have pictures of him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The distended belly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The distended belly, yeah. But he survived. He revived and survived, and he became like a part of the community. And of course, the story was always, oh, he's like a miracle because he was supposed to die. And there had been many deaths of other children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there must have been, yeah. So the drinking water, the water that people were drinking was contaminated?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2029084334440292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have pictures of him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The distended belly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The distended belly, yeah. But he survived. He revived and survived, and he became like a part of the community. And of course, the story was always, oh, he's like a miracle because he was supposed to die. And there had been many deaths of other children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there must have been, yeah. So the drinking water, the water that people were drinking was contaminated?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not potable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not potable, but they were drinking it anyway."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3365649260489212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The distended belly, yeah. But he survived. He revived and survived, and he became like a part of the community. And of course, the story was always, oh, he's like a miracle because he was supposed to die. And there had been many deaths of other children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there must have been, yeah. So the drinking water, the water that people were drinking was contaminated?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not potable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not potable, but they were drinking it anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. From the river. Directly from the river. And that's where the animals went to drink."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they didn't have, they didn't see the connection between the bacteria in the water and their illnesses?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4850721400543567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not potable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not potable, but they were drinking it anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. From the river. Directly from the river. And that's where the animals went to drink."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they didn't have, they didn't see the connection between the bacteria in the water and their illnesses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think they were just sort of like hopeless, like this is the way it has always been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so the idea of boiling and filtering water was not something that anybody had suggested they might do? Wow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.650080155615952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. From the river. Directly from the river. And that's where the animals went to drink."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they didn't have, they didn't see the connection between the bacteria in the water and their illnesses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think they were just sort of like hopeless, like this is the way it has always been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so the idea of boiling and filtering water was not something that anybody had suggested they might do? Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's, that's primitive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it is. And then the iguana eggs part was just chicken eggs? Did people have chickens or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8334223951288353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think they were just sort of like hopeless, like this is the way it has always been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so the idea of boiling and filtering water was not something that anybody had suggested they might do? Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's, that's primitive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it is. And then the iguana eggs part was just chicken eggs? Did people have chickens or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So chicken eggs were available to eat?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0371359945875946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's, that's primitive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it is. And then the iguana eggs part was just chicken eggs? Did people have chickens or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So chicken eggs were available to eat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As well as the meat of chickens too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2634844384306607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So chicken eggs were available to eat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As well as the meat of chickens too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they even invite you over to eat? Did you ever eat with these people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.5149827093674006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As well as the meat of chickens too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they even invite you over to eat? Did you ever eat with these people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they made tortillas and we bought tortillas from them. But mostly people there, because there were so many people in this small quarters, they didn't sit down to eat. They just carried a plate and they'd have tortillas, beans and rice. That was the main staple and that was, they just sort of ate as they were wandering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6833141215193341, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they even invite you over to eat? Did you ever eat with these people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they made tortillas and we bought tortillas from them. But mostly people there, because there were so many people in this small quarters, they didn't sit down to eat. They just carried a plate and they'd have tortillas, beans and rice. That was the main staple and that was, they just sort of ate as they were wandering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they thought we were strange because we did sit down to eat. But the food in Honduras, I think about it a lot. It was very plain. It was not like the spicy Mexican food or other cultures, but it was very nutritious. And they didn't have enough of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. There was rice?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3090728690251496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was rice, red beans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Red beans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not black beans. Rice and beans, that was the main staple. And these corn tortillas which were to die for, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Handmade?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Handmade, masa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your host, did your, uh, I want to call her your host mother but she sort of wasn't, the landlady. Did she make her own tortillas with the slapping?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.565636521139055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not black beans. Rice and beans, that was the main staple. And these corn tortillas which were to die for, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Handmade?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Handmade, masa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your host, did your, uh, I want to call her your host mother but she sort of wasn't, the landlady. Did she make her own tortillas with the slapping?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Her daughters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Her daughters made their own."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7395961345989501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Handmade, masa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your host, did your, uh, I want to call her your host mother but she sort of wasn't, the landlady. Did she make her own tortillas with the slapping?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Her daughters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Her daughters made their own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's how we woke up in the morning, to the sound of [clapping]. Yes. That and ox carts. That was our wake-up call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was rice and beans and tortillas and maybe the occasional chicken."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9328845939988335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Her daughters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Her daughters made their own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's how we woke up in the morning, to the sound of [clapping]. Yes. That and ox carts. That was our wake-up call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was rice and beans and tortillas and maybe the occasional chicken."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There were tomatoes and cabbage. They made a cabbage slaw and they had their, it was pineapple vinegar, which is kind of sweet and delicious. So this coleslaw with pineapple vinegar, I don't remember if they put other vegetables in there. It was quite tasty. It was kind of unique."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you and Joe eat a similar diet? Rice and beans and tortillas and cabbage coleslaw?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1476495488875926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's how we woke up in the morning, to the sound of [clapping]. Yes. That and ox carts. That was our wake-up call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was rice and beans and tortillas and maybe the occasional chicken."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There were tomatoes and cabbage. They made a cabbage slaw and they had their, it was pineapple vinegar, which is kind of sweet and delicious. So this coleslaw with pineapple vinegar, I don't remember if they put other vegetables in there. It was quite tasty. It was kind of unique."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you and Joe eat a similar diet? Rice and beans and tortillas and cabbage coleslaw?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you would have, I'm thinking about cabbage coleslaw being a raw cabbage. So you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3862772765417697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There were tomatoes and cabbage. They made a cabbage slaw and they had their, it was pineapple vinegar, which is kind of sweet and delicious. So this coleslaw with pineapple vinegar, I don't remember if they put other vegetables in there. It was quite tasty. It was kind of unique."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you and Joe eat a similar diet? Rice and beans and tortillas and cabbage coleslaw?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you would have, I'm thinking about cabbage coleslaw being a raw cabbage. So you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used to bleach it. We used to put bleach in the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.651419196157522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you would have, I'm thinking about cabbage coleslaw being a raw cabbage. So you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used to bleach it. We used to put bleach in the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we just had a quantity of bleach and we just, we had filtered water too. We had a water filter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your own filter?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9460213290639135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used to bleach it. We used to put bleach in the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we just had a quantity of bleach and we just, we had filtered water too. We had a water filter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your own filter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you boil it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2733570322932373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we just had a quantity of bleach and we just, we had filtered water too. We had a water filter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your own filter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you boil it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we boiled it, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Boil it first and then filter it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.490201690388528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then filter it. Yeah. Just to be sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't have problems with the water. Joe occasionally would get something that would make his burp smell like sulfur."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ugh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He wasn't as careful. Like, if he went out into the campo to do some kind of project, he would eat and drink maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, whatever everybody else, whatever the other guys would."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.989112989320586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't have problems with the water. Joe occasionally would get something that would make his burp smell like sulfur."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ugh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He wasn't as careful. Like, if he went out into the campo to do some kind of project, he would eat and drink maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, whatever everybody else, whatever the other guys would."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think the water, I don't know how he got it. Maybe he was just a little sensitive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you? Did you stay healthy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3568079414548502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did. I had, this is an interesting thing. Before we left Peoria, while we were there for that short time, like maybe several weeks in the summer, I went to Planned Parenthood in Peoria and told them that I was going to be gone for two years and that I wouldn't be accessing medical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course. I had just gotten married, so I needed birth control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So at first they said we can't give that amount, you know, that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A two year supply."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.507564379394278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course. I had just gotten married, so I needed birth control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So at first they said we can't give that amount, you know, that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A two year supply."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I begged them. I said, listen, I can't, if I get pregnant, it will end my service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wait, didn't Peace Corps take care of that? Didn't they give married couples contraceptives?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8611905918447875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I begged them. I said, listen, I can't, if I get pregnant, it will end my service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wait, didn't Peace Corps take care of that? Didn't they give married couples contraceptives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But maybe they did. But I was worried. I didn't want to get pregnant before I went into training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What had Peace Corps told you might happen if you did get pregnant while, uh, during your two years as a Peace Corps volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0679895464942084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But maybe they did. But I was worried. I didn't want to get pregnant before I went into training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What had Peace Corps told you might happen if you did get pregnant while, uh, during your two years as a Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that they didn't allow Peace Corps volunteers to stay in the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you'd have to go home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:479", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2977661627713424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But maybe they did. But I was worried. I didn't want to get pregnant before I went into training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What had Peace Corps told you might happen if you did get pregnant while, uh, during your two years as a Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that they didn't allow Peace Corps volunteers to stay in the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you'd have to go home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they didn't help you prevent a pregnancy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.5530735141903804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that they didn't allow Peace Corps volunteers to stay in the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you'd have to go home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they didn't help you prevent a pregnancy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I would have to double check on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but the very fact that you went to Planned Parenthood in Peoria indicates that you were on your own for that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7256372379893115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they didn't help you prevent a pregnancy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I would have to double check on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but the very fact that you went to Planned Parenthood in Peoria indicates that you were on your own for that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also went to the Tupperware distributor and got lots of Tupperware. You know, we just, we were so young. We tried to plan ahead. And you're probably right. I think Peace Corps must have had some contraceptives available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whatever it was, it couldn't have been sufficient if you found yourself at Planned Parenthood in Peoria."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9173747088770128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I would have to double check on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but the very fact that you went to Planned Parenthood in Peoria indicates that you were on your own for that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also went to the Tupperware distributor and got lots of Tupperware. You know, we just, we were so young. We tried to plan ahead. And you're probably right. I think Peace Corps must have had some contraceptives available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whatever it was, it couldn't have been sufficient if you found yourself at Planned Parenthood in Peoria."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's the situation. I was taking birth control pills. I did not have a good reaction to them. They were very strong. I can't remember what the dosage was, but stronger than what they used later on. You know, that was still pretty early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1304163431966807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also went to the Tupperware distributor and got lots of Tupperware. You know, we just, we were so young. We tried to plan ahead. And you're probably right. I think Peace Corps must have had some contraceptives available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whatever it was, it couldn't have been sufficient if you found yourself at Planned Parenthood in Peoria."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's the situation. I was taking birth control pills. I did not have a good reaction to them. They were very strong. I can't remember what the dosage was, but stronger than what they used later on. You know, that was still pretty early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I got an IUD and that was how I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's good, then. Yeah. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.367129270218534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's the situation. I was taking birth control pills. I did not have a good reaction to them. They were very strong. I can't remember what the dosage was, but stronger than what they used later on. You know, that was still pretty early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I got an IUD and that was how I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's good, then. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was the birth control. In case you were wondering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I actually hadn't thought of the question, but it's a good one. And then you cooked for yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.6301436335761488, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I got an IUD and that was how I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's good, then. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was the birth control. In case you were wondering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I actually hadn't thought of the question, but it's a good one. And then you cooked for yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to do your own shopping."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8112707039734985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was the birth control. In case you were wondering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I actually hadn't thought of the question, but it's a good one. And then you cooked for yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to do your own shopping."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was easy. I mean, people came to the door because we were Americanos, and they had things for us to buy. From these little delicious hard cinnamon cookies, I can't even remember what they were called, to eggs. To chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a whole chicken?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0125230044149984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to do your own shopping."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was easy. I mean, people came to the door because we were Americanos, and they had things for us to buy. From these little delicious hard cinnamon cookies, I can't even remember what they were called, to eggs. To chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a whole chicken?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A live chicken?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.23613667157222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was easy. I mean, people came to the door because we were Americanos, and they had things for us to buy. From these little delicious hard cinnamon cookies, I can't even remember what they were called, to eggs. To chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a whole chicken?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A live chicken?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I gave that up after, I tried doing that, you know, I had to try it, and it was just kind of gross. And it took a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah. Pluck it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3734851906358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A live chicken?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I gave that up after, I tried doing that, you know, I had to try it, and it was just kind of gross. And it took a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah. Pluck it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boil and. But, um. When I think about it, it's almost like you could do a show, like a Survivor show and say, okay, here's a raw chicken, here's some veggies, you know, here's a pan. Good luck. So that's how I learned to cook."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you cook?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:507", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9822971965185187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a double burner propane gas stove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Propane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was propane, yeah. I mean, there was nothing electric or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eventually we got a little refrigerator, but it was a gas-powered refrigerator. That's how it cooled. Except our room was drafty. The rafters were kind of open. And if there was a windy, and there were some very windy months, the, if we were out of town and we left any meat in the refrigerator, the refrigerator went out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would blow out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4971760349314411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had never, you know, I had never spent time on a farm. So all of this was very new to me. And so things like that were pretty harsh. We had an oven that was made out of a safety oil can. Somebody, I don't remember it was a Peace Corps volunteer, devised this thing. But you could put it on top of the stove and actually bake in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was a group of women, I assume it was women, maybe men. They put out a Peace Corps cookbook, and one of the recipes was for lemon meringue pie because lemons were also plentiful. And if I had been smart, I would have done green mango pie. I didn't know anything about mangoes either, but we did do lemon meringue pies in this little oven and they were delicious. It was quite a treat. So I felt, I felt good about, um. I even made donuts one time. We had some kind of a fundraiser and I made donut batter and fried these donuts, which I would never do now, but things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, just experimenting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't have electricity?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:517", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.6635289277016012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was a group of women, I assume it was women, maybe men. They put out a Peace Corps cookbook, and one of the recipes was for lemon meringue pie because lemons were also plentiful. And if I had been smart, I would have done green mango pie. I didn't know anything about mangoes either, but we did do lemon meringue pies in this little oven and they were delicious. It was quite a treat. So I felt, I felt good about, um. I even made donuts one time. We had some kind of a fundraiser and I made donut batter and fried these donuts, which I would never do now, but things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, just experimenting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't have electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at night, how would you light your room? You had just one room."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7372543641128904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, just experimenting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't have electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at night, how would you light your room? You had just one room."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, later on down the road, we got, you know, we bought into this co-op that one of the townspeople had a generator. The generator would come on and we had a light bulb and the light bulb would come on for three or four hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just in your room?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8191715156809892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at night, how would you light your room? You had just one room."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, later on down the road, we got, you know, we bought into this co-op that one of the townspeople had a generator. The generator would come on and we had a light bulb and the light bulb would come on for three or four hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just in your room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just in the middle of the room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But your landlord's family and the other two rooms of the house didn't have the electricity."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:523", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.910190572978877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, later on down the road, we got, you know, we bought into this co-op that one of the townspeople had a generator. The generator would come on and we had a light bulb and the light bulb would come on for three or four hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just in your room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just in the middle of the room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But your landlord's family and the other two rooms of the house didn't have the electricity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So just for a few hours, the generator would be on for a few hours. And during that time you had a little light and then it would go off."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.123692065406021, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So just for a few hours, the generator would be on for a few hours. And during that time you had a little light and then it would go off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So let me tell you about our light."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Candles? Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had these little candelas. They were a little metal cans with wicks and there was liquid fuel in the bottom. I don't remember what it was, but that was pretty effective light. I mean, it wasn't great light, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could read."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2485467393400234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So let me tell you about our light."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Candles? Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had these little candelas. They were a little metal cans with wicks and there was liquid fuel in the bottom. I don't remember what it was, but that was pretty effective light. I mean, it wasn't great light, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could read."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like, I like things low lit. I don't like bright lights anyway so. All right. Joe being the Joe that he is, he found a carpenter who could build us a bed. And it was, I think, mahogany wood. It was very nice wood, but it was this damn, ah, rope bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A rope bed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:533", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.4303046164691644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like, I like things low lit. I don't like bright lights anyway so. All right. Joe being the Joe that he is, he found a carpenter who could build us a bed. And it was, I think, mahogany wood. It was very nice wood, but it was this damn, ah, rope bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A rope bed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rope bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably a standard size, regular sized bed and frame. It had four posters so we could put a metate on the top because they told us that there were scorpions in those tiles above us and on the roof. And at night they might fall down on us and sting us. So get this little mat, just like why they did four poster beds in the olden days, you know, to keep the case from coming out of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Falling onto your face."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.47811624052129376, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rope bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably a standard size, regular sized bed and frame. It had four posters so we could put a metate on the top because they told us that there were scorpions in those tiles above us and on the roof. And at night they might fall down on us and sting us. So get this little mat, just like why they did four poster beds in the olden days, you know, to keep the case from coming out of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Falling onto your face."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The thatch roof and stuff. Okay, so this bed was beautiful. It really, it looked like it belonged to a museum, but damn, it was rope stretched across a frame with a metate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a metate is a woven mat?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5312402672458819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably a standard size, regular sized bed and frame. It had four posters so we could put a metate on the top because they told us that there were scorpions in those tiles above us and on the roof. And at night they might fall down on us and sting us. So get this little mat, just like why they did four poster beds in the olden days, you know, to keep the case from coming out of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Falling onto your face."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The thatch roof and stuff. Okay, so this bed was beautiful. It really, it looked like it belonged to a museum, but damn, it was rope stretched across a frame with a metate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a metate is a woven mat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just a little thin, tiny thin woven mat. No mattress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was it for a mattress?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:539", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5902669636065354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The thatch roof and stuff. Okay, so this bed was beautiful. It really, it looked like it belonged to a museum, but damn, it was rope stretched across a frame with a metate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a metate is a woven mat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just a little thin, tiny thin woven mat. No mattress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was it for a mattress?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh.\n\nI longed to go to Tegucigalpa, where we slept on beds, you know, with mattresses.\n\nYeah. Oh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6558521817850393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just a little thin, tiny thin woven mat. No mattress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was it for a mattress?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh.\n\nI longed to go to Tegucigalpa, where we slept on beds, you know, with mattresses.\n\nYeah. Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in all your two years, you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:543", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7287246464278215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh.\n\nI longed to go to Tegucigalpa, where we slept on beds, you know, with mattresses.\n\nYeah. Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in all your two years, you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My husband can talk me into anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In all your two years, you never slept on a mattress. You just slept on that mat on top of the room. If you went somewhere else, but at home, it was sleeping on that hard metal."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1106914287880223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that wasn't very comfortable either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, I mean, it was more for reading."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah. So we slept on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a hammock inside your room?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:553", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.234101587542247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, I mean, it was more for reading."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah. So we slept on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a hammock inside your room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I think we took it up and down because it was so small that we couldn't have it there all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you had a couple of chairs?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:555", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3712239861580522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah. So we slept on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a hammock inside your room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I think we took it up and down because it was so small that we couldn't have it there all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you had a couple of chairs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We had a table and just a couple of wooden chairs. Nothing lounge-y or comfy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you wanted to read a book, you'd sleep, you'd sit in a hard wooden chair at the table, or you'd lie in the hammock?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:557", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5235822068422802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I think we took it up and down because it was so small that we couldn't have it there all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you had a couple of chairs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We had a table and just a couple of wooden chairs. Nothing lounge-y or comfy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you wanted to read a book, you'd sleep, you'd sit in a hard wooden chair at the table, or you'd lie in the hammock?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. This is hard."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:559", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6928691187136446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We had a table and just a couple of wooden chairs. Nothing lounge-y or comfy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you wanted to read a book, you'd sleep, you'd sit in a hard wooden chair at the table, or you'd lie in the hammock?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. This is hard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. We added on to our little space. We added a pila for water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A pila is a sink?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:563", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.089961874955117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. We added on to our little space. We added a pila for water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A pila is a sink?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. A deep sink made out of concrete."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Holds a lot of water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so that wasn't there when you first moved in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:565", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.21106874995013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. A deep sink made out of concrete."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Holds a lot of water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so that wasn't there when you first moved in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we added that, and then we had another little sink. I think we had some running water. What we did is we hired somebody to build a porch. It was an L-shaped porch on the back of our place with some columns and a roof over it. And that came in handy because later on down the road we got a bunch of Singer sewing machines. And I had a small class of young women, and we made baby clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wonderful. On your back porch."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:567", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3456319443890334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Holds a lot of water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so that wasn't there when you first moved in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we added that, and then we had another little sink. I think we had some running water. What we did is we hired somebody to build a porch. It was an L-shaped porch on the back of our place with some columns and a roof over it. And that came in handy because later on down the road we got a bunch of Singer sewing machines. And I had a small class of young women, and we made baby clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wonderful. On your back porch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned something about running water, which reminds me, I was going to ask you, in terms of your own consumption, where did your water come from?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:569", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4951466048767037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we added that, and then we had another little sink. I think we had some running water. What we did is we hired somebody to build a porch. It was an L-shaped porch on the back of our place with some columns and a roof over it. And that came in handy because later on down the road we got a bunch of Singer sewing machines. And I had a small class of young women, and we made baby clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wonderful. On your back porch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned something about running water, which reminds me, I was going to ask you, in terms of your own consumption, where did your water come from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The river."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the river. Would you have to go to the river with a bucket?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:571", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6612740054185597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned something about running water, which reminds me, I was going to ask you, in terms of your own consumption, where did your water come from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The river."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the river. Would you have to go to the river with a bucket?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did not do that. I think the kids brought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kids brought you the water."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8458600060206218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The river."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the river. Would you have to go to the river with a bucket?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did not do that. I think the kids brought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kids brought you the water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then pretty soon, you know, we had access to a pipe and so we got our own running water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so you had a little spigot."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:575", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0509555622451354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did not do that. I think the kids brought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kids brought you the water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then pretty soon, you know, we had access to a pipe and so we got our own running water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so you had a little spigot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We had like a freestanding shower in the yard, but there was nothing around it except those big leafy palm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a little privacy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.278839513605706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then pretty soon, you know, we had access to a pipe and so we got our own running water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so you had a little spigot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We had like a freestanding shower in the yard, but there was nothing around it except those big leafy palm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a little privacy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Elephant ears. Yeah. Very little privacy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But people wouldn't look at you while you're taking your shower?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:581", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5788142143280324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Elephant ears. Yeah. Very little privacy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. But people wouldn't look at you while you're taking your shower?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so, I hope not. I would just take a quick shower. And I'll tell you something, Phyllis. I recently admitted to myself I have no memory of using the latrine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like, ugh, it smelled bad. One time I looked down in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to share it with the other people in the family or was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:583", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.754238015920036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so, I hope not. I would just take a quick shower. And I'll tell you something, Phyllis. I recently admitted to myself I have no memory of using the latrine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like, ugh, it smelled bad. One time I looked down in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to share it with the other people in the family or was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they used it from time to time. Because, you know, poor things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. They didn't even have a hole in the ground."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:585", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.949153351022262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like, ugh, it smelled bad. One time I looked down in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to share it with the other people in the family or was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they used it from time to time. Because, you know, poor things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. They didn't even have a hole in the ground."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your latrine was essentially a hole in the ground with what, a box on top of it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:587", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.165725945580291, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they used it from time to time. Because, you know, poor things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. They didn't even have a hole in the ground."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your latrine was essentially a hole in the ground with what, a box on top of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It had some adobe around it, so there was privacy. But I looked down in it one time, and it was. I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm imagining you did use it. You just don't, you put that on delete."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:591", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.439167834049742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It had some adobe around it, so there was privacy. But I looked down in it one time, and it was. I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm imagining you did use it. You just don't, you put that on delete."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you see the movie Slumdog Millionaire?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That brought back memories of the latrine. And I never fell into it but. It was just, it was primitive. You know, I had never, I was in a. I lived at my parents house. I lived in the sorority house. And then I went to Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:593", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.59907537116638, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you see the movie Slumdog Millionaire?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That brought back memories of the latrine. And I never fell into it but. It was just, it was primitive. You know, I had never, I was in a. I lived at my parents house. I lived in the sorority house. And then I went to Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So sort of like being plucked out of middle classdom into."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And having to make."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:595", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.776750412407089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That brought back memories of the latrine. And I never fell into it but. It was just, it was primitive. You know, I had never, I was in a. I lived at my parents house. I lived in the sorority house. And then I went to Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So sort of like being plucked out of middle classdom into."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And having to make."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was primitive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, but you stayed there for two years."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:597", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9741671248967654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So sort of like being plucked out of middle classdom into."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And having to make."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was primitive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, but you stayed there for two years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, we loved it. We loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's talk about what you did. I'm intrigued with the sewing. You had women coming to your back porch and you had acquired sewing machines somehow. And you, how did you get the sewing machines?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:601", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4372433640700804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, we loved it. We loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's talk about what you did. I'm intrigued with the sewing. You had women coming to your back porch and you had acquired sewing machines somehow. And you, how did you get the sewing machines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were Singer treadle machines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Treadle. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we had no electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:603", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.708048182300089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were Singer treadle machines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Treadle. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we had no electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think I had, there were young women who were pretty good seamstresses. And I think that they were more the teachers than I, because I'd only had like a few sewing classes in high school. I wasn't really a seamstress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But where did you get the machines?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:605", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0089424247778767, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we had no electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think I had, there were young women who were pretty good seamstresses. And I think that they were more the teachers than I, because I'd only had like a few sewing classes in high school. I wasn't really a seamstress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But where did you get the machines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, that's such a good question. They must have been in Goascoran, like maybe the priests had them stored away. Maybe in one of the churches. But, you know, we begged and borrowed and got things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you get this idea to have women coming over to your house to make baby clothes? How did, how did you figure out that this would be the good thing to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:609", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7147437342936747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, that's such a good question. They must have been in Goascoran, like maybe the priests had them stored away. Maybe in one of the churches. But, you know, we begged and borrowed and got things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you get this idea to have women coming over to your house to make baby clothes? How did, how did you figure out that this would be the good thing to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, eventually it wasn't such a good thing to do. I don't think it really prospered anybody. But it was, you know, we were just trying to think of ways of commerce, making some kind of commerce."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my original job, to go back to the very beginning, was that I was supposed to teach songs and somewhat educational material to children while they were eating lunch. These were school children who came to a pulperia, I think. No, no, it was a comedor. They had a comedor. They had a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a comedor is like a lunchroom?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:611", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.127493038104083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, eventually it wasn't such a good thing to do. I don't think it really prospered anybody. But it was, you know, we were just trying to think of ways of commerce, making some kind of commerce."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my original job, to go back to the very beginning, was that I was supposed to teach songs and somewhat educational material to children while they were eating lunch. These were school children who came to a pulperia, I think. No, no, it was a comedor. They had a comedor. They had a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a comedor is like a lunchroom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the children would come they'd be in their uniforms. They'd be very sweet and polite. But they were trying to eat their lunch and I was supposed to be teaching them something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While they were eating their lunch?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:615", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9845593063013367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the children would come they'd be in their uniforms. They'd be very sweet and polite. But they were trying to eat their lunch and I was supposed to be teaching them something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While they were eating their lunch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I'm sure I did something. You know, I had a kind of a background in teaching before I went into Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty modest. But anyway, I soon thought, hmm, this doesn't, just doesn't seem to be going in the direction that I want it to. So that was probably about the end of the first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was Peace Corps that had suggested that you do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:617", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.427288118112596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I'm sure I did something. You know, I had a kind of a background in teaching before I went into Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty modest. But anyway, I soon thought, hmm, this doesn't, just doesn't seem to be going in the direction that I want it to. So that was probably about the end of the first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was Peace Corps that had suggested that you do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the kids during their lunch hour?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:621", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.23121989890444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the kids during their lunch hour?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was one of the goals was to teach the children. Well, the thing in Honduras is that children don't start school until they're seven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was very interested in early childhood education. So in the Peace Corps locker, our book locker, which we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you got a book locker?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:631", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.6414501497136955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I loved that book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a tremendous, I would still love that book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, I started thinking about the Montessori method and the materials. The materials were just so beautiful and there were carpenters in town that we got to know who built these beautiful wooden blocks and puzzles. I wish I had pictures of them. Maybe I do somewhere. But I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were able to give the pictures to the local carpenter?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:633", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 6.2682779441263285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a tremendous, I would still love that book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, I started thinking about the Montessori method and the materials. The materials were just so beautiful and there were carpenters in town that we got to know who built these beautiful wooden blocks and puzzles. I wish I had pictures of them. Maybe I do somewhere. But I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were able to give the pictures to the local carpenter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The book. I had the book from the book locker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then the carpenters were able to make?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:635", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4091977156959208, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, I started thinking about the Montessori method and the materials. The materials were just so beautiful and there were carpenters in town that we got to know who built these beautiful wooden blocks and puzzles. I wish I had pictures of them. Maybe I do somewhere. But I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were able to give the pictures to the local carpenter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The book. I had the book from the book locker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then the carpenters were able to make?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the one carpenter was actually English speaking. And the reason that he was is that he used to come to, I think, Louisiana as a young man, and he got into trouble and he went to prison, but he learned to speak English. But he was a great guy. So anyway, he made those blocks and other materials. And somehow I finagled a space in the same place where the comedor was. There was another room that wasn't being used. And I invited kids who were preschool aged, like 5 to 7, or 5, or maybe 4 to 6. And they came in and I sort of developed a morning program for those kids so that they would have something to do because otherwise they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just wandering around."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:637", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5657752396621343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The book. I had the book from the book locker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then the carpenters were able to make?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the one carpenter was actually English speaking. And the reason that he was is that he used to come to, I think, Louisiana as a young man, and he got into trouble and he went to prison, but he learned to speak English. But he was a great guy. So anyway, he made those blocks and other materials. And somehow I finagled a space in the same place where the comedor was. There was another room that wasn't being used. And I invited kids who were preschool aged, like 5 to 7, or 5, or maybe 4 to 6. And they came in and I sort of developed a morning program for those kids so that they would have something to do because otherwise they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just wandering around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, which is fine actually, when I think about it now, that was probably fine too. But I loved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what did you have the kids doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:641", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9330558514347336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, which is fine actually, when I think about it now, that was probably fine too. But I loved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what did you have the kids doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like a little preschool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Preschool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, with centers and story time and songs and, I don't know, it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of stories? What kind of songs?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:643", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1478398349274817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like a little preschool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Preschool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, with centers and story time and songs and, I don't know, it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of stories? What kind of songs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish I could remember. Um. I think they were nursery rhyme books, but in Spanish. Everything was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a few books?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:645", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.3864887054749797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, with centers and story time and songs and, I don't know, it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of stories? What kind of songs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish I could remember. Um. I think they were nursery rhyme books, but in Spanish. Everything was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a few books?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I must have gotten them from somewhere. I can't remember where. I just, I had to write this proposal. That was one of the things. I had to submit it to the woman in Tegucigalpa who was in charge of us, and I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In charge of Peace Corps volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:647", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5405430060833107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish I could remember. Um. I think they were nursery rhyme books, but in Spanish. Everything was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a few books?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I must have gotten them from somewhere. I can't remember where. I just, I had to write this proposal. That was one of the things. I had to submit it to the woman in Tegucigalpa who was in charge of us, and I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In charge of Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I think they gave me a small stipend. It was very small but allowed me to buy some materials. So. And there was a young, probably late teenage, early twenties. She was about my age, a young woman who I got along with really well. And she came in and sort of was my assistant and she kept the school going after we left. She kept it going. I don't know how long it went, but I think people were pretty pleased with it. You know, at first it was like, oh, no, no, no. These are my babies. They don't go to school yet. But then eventually it became a good thing. So I was proud of that. There was something written up about it. I can't remember who wrote it. Somebody came. We must have had historians that were doing reporting on the different Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in some sort of Peace Corps publication?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:649", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7117144512036786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I must have gotten them from somewhere. I can't remember where. I just, I had to write this proposal. That was one of the things. I had to submit it to the woman in Tegucigalpa who was in charge of us, and I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In charge of Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I think they gave me a small stipend. It was very small but allowed me to buy some materials. So. And there was a young, probably late teenage, early twenties. She was about my age, a young woman who I got along with really well. And she came in and sort of was my assistant and she kept the school going after we left. She kept it going. I don't know how long it went, but I think people were pretty pleased with it. You know, at first it was like, oh, no, no, no. These are my babies. They don't go to school yet. But then eventually it became a good thing. So I was proud of that. There was something written up about it. I can't remember who wrote it. Somebody came. We must have had historians that were doing reporting on the different Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in some sort of Peace Corps publication?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They took pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, good, good. You got some recognition for that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:651", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.901904945781865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I think they gave me a small stipend. It was very small but allowed me to buy some materials. So. And there was a young, probably late teenage, early twenties. She was about my age, a young woman who I got along with really well. And she came in and sort of was my assistant and she kept the school going after we left. She kept it going. I don't know how long it went, but I think people were pretty pleased with it. You know, at first it was like, oh, no, no, no. These are my babies. They don't go to school yet. But then eventually it became a good thing. So I was proud of that. There was something written up about it. I can't remember who wrote it. Somebody came. We must have had historians that were doing reporting on the different Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in some sort of Peace Corps publication?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They took pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, good, good. You got some recognition for that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was, it was very positive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you spent your time. I'm impressed that you were able to find what was available, the space, and you made that happen."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:657", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.6089231080684017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was so much better than this assignment to somehow teach while children were eating lunch. I just didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And what I ended up in that comedor doing was like washing dishes. And that drove me crazy because they didn't have hot water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any grease that was on the plates, well, that just stayed. It was greasy dishes drying in the sun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was the preschool for the kids that you started and a little sewing, sewing club sort of for the women, because you made those sewing machines accessible to them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:659", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.787692342298224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And what I ended up in that comedor doing was like washing dishes. And that drove me crazy because they didn't have hot water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any grease that was on the plates, well, that just stayed. It was greasy dishes drying in the sun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was the preschool for the kids that you started and a little sewing, sewing club sort of for the women, because you made those sewing machines accessible to them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think that what we were hoping to do is sell those clothes at the market. There was a Saturday market."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, was that, to get a little business going?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:661", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9863248247758045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any grease that was on the plates, well, that just stayed. It was greasy dishes drying in the sun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was the preschool for the kids that you started and a little sewing, sewing club sort of for the women, because you made those sewing machines accessible to them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think that what we were hoping to do is sell those clothes at the market. There was a Saturday market."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, was that, to get a little business going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did they get the cloth?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:663", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.207027583084227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think that what we were hoping to do is sell those clothes at the market. There was a Saturday market."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, was that, to get a little business going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did they get the cloth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:665", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4522528700935857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did they get the cloth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we probably begged for it. You know, probably went to the local little stores and said, do you have any cloth that we could use for this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Baby clothes are pretty small so."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:671", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3638585323643144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To make them. I think that was the idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cause they were small. Another thing we did is we taught English in the high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:675", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1529117683510055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cause they were small. Another thing we did is we taught English in the high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was very, um, I don't know, it wasn't very well organized and there weren't very many people. And a lot of the people were much older than you. It wasn't high school age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Joe did that, and I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Mm hmm. In the evenings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:677", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.614346409278895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was very, um, I don't know, it wasn't very well organized and there weren't very many people. And a lot of the people were much older than you. It wasn't high school age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Joe did that, and I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Mm hmm. In the evenings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And that was kind of fun. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure it was, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:679", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.127051565865438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Joe did that, and I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Mm hmm. In the evenings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And that was kind of fun. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure it was, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Go teach English. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps come out to visit you and check on how you're doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:681", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.696723962072709, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And that was kind of fun. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure it was, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Go teach English. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps come out to visit you and check on how you're doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "See these fingers?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see two."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:683", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.218582180080787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Go teach English. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps come out to visit you and check on how you're doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "See these fingers?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see two."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is the best story. I have to get this on tape because it was so dramatic and I love to tell it. The Peace Corps doctor came to visit us kind of unexpectedly, and his name was Peter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He didn't call you on your cell phone?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:685", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.4650913112008745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See these fingers?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see two."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is the best story. I have to get this on tape because it was so dramatic and I love to tell it. The Peace Corps doctor came to visit us kind of unexpectedly, and his name was Peter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He didn't call you on your cell phone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. But we were always glad, you know, when other volunteers happened to show up. Like Ed showed up because he had transportation. Another woman from Nacaome came. I remember she stayed the night and she had those night terrors where she would scream during the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no! This is a Peace Corps volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:687", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.6278792346676383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is the best story. I have to get this on tape because it was so dramatic and I love to tell it. The Peace Corps doctor came to visit us kind of unexpectedly, and his name was Peter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He didn't call you on your cell phone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. But we were always glad, you know, when other volunteers happened to show up. Like Ed showed up because he had transportation. Another woman from Nacaome came. I remember she stayed the night and she had those night terrors where she would scream during the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no! This is a Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we learned a little bit about her. But anyway, Peter came, the volunteer, and he was a very, very lovely person and we were having kind of a social time. I think we were having dinner. And while we were eating dinner, we heard this screaming. Horrible screaming. And it turned out that Don Jesus had had his, the tip of his pointer finger cut off while working on La Rapida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the slow-moving fast truck. Yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:689", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6976435940751538, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. But we were always glad, you know, when other volunteers happened to show up. Like Ed showed up because he had transportation. Another woman from Nacaome came. I remember she stayed the night and she had those night terrors where she would scream during the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no! This is a Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we learned a little bit about her. But anyway, Peter came, the volunteer, and he was a very, very lovely person and we were having kind of a social time. I think we were having dinner. And while we were eating dinner, we heard this screaming. Horrible screaming. And it turned out that Don Jesus had had his, the tip of his pointer finger cut off while working on La Rapida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the slow-moving fast truck. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they wrapped that finger. They knew that, you know, they always knew everything we were doing. And I guess I had introduced the doctor when he came earlier in the day or something. So they knew that we had this doctor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Peace Corps doctor was at your house? Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:701", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3127395027390691, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And everyone was crying. And, you know, there was just a whole bunch of people and we kind of got some of the people to leave. But Don Jesus was there and I think his wife was there. And maybe a couple of the kids. Took the fingertip. And you can imagine, they did not practice hygiene on the nails. So there was this dirty, dirty fingertip in the salt water soaking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To keep it, keep it going. And Peter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the knuckle? I mean, how much of his finger was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:705", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6206660527642827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To keep it, keep it going. And Peter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the knuckle? I mean, how much of his finger was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was just above the knuckle. But you have to remember that he was the musician."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He needed that finger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Because it was his instrument was the guitar."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:709", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0008222873633117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He needed that finger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Because it was his instrument was the guitar."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, trombone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Trombone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a, uh. I'm pretty sure it was a trombone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So this is really critical that he had this. Yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:711", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.223135874848124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, trombone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Trombone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a, uh. I'm pretty sure it was a trombone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So this is really critical that he had this. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And he was just beloved in the town. I mean, his name was Jesus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jesus, yeah. Right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:713", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.470150972053471, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a, uh. I'm pretty sure it was a trombone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So this is really critical that he had this. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And he was just beloved in the town. I mean, his name was Jesus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jesus, yeah. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, we gave him something to drink. I think it was just the local thing called guaro."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is an alcoholic drink? Uh huh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:717", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9384579901894703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, we gave him something to drink. I think it was just the local thing called guaro."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is an alcoholic drink? Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To kind of ease some of the pain. And then Peter sewed that fingertip back on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Put a bunch of antiseptic, gave him bandages and antiseptic to use, because he was only going to be there for a day. The doctor was leaving the next day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The doctor was going to spend the night."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:719", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1538422113216336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To kind of ease some of the pain. And then Peter sewed that fingertip back on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Put a bunch of antiseptic, gave him bandages and antiseptic to use, because he was only going to be there for a day. The doctor was leaving the next day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The doctor was going to spend the night."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's going to stay the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:721", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3931580125795926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Put a bunch of antiseptic, gave him bandages and antiseptic to use, because he was only going to be there for a day. The doctor was leaving the next day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The doctor was going to spend the night."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's going to stay the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your little room?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:727", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2827956276811965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I don't remember. I think we had a porch that had a bed out or hammock or something. He was very resourceful. So I know he didn't sleep in our bed because it was too small. But anyway, uh, that was just one of the most dramatic scenes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm kind of averse to hospitals and surgery. Anyways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Blood spurting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Blood spurting, everybody screaming. The pain. It was just, you know, tremendous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have antibiotics to give the guy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:729", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6475506974235516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm kind of averse to hospitals and surgery. Anyways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Blood spurting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Blood spurting, everybody screaming. The pain. It was just, you know, tremendous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have antibiotics to give the guy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Antibiotic cream."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cream. But he couldn't give him those."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:731", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.0528341082483905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Blood spurting, everybody screaming. The pain. It was just, you know, tremendous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have antibiotics to give the guy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Antibiotic cream."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cream. But he couldn't give him those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oral antibiotics. Yeah, I hope there were. But the good thing is, is that finger grew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it did heal? Wow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:733", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3920378980537675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Antibiotic cream."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cream. But he couldn't give him those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oral antibiotics. Yeah, I hope there were. But the good thing is, is that finger grew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it did heal? Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The visiting nurse came a few weeks later and chided him for not keeping it clean enough. But it didn't fall off and it didn't get infected. [sneezes] Excuse me. So that was one scene."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What an amazing story."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:735", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7689309978375194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oral antibiotics. Yeah, I hope there were. But the good thing is, is that finger grew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it did heal? Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The visiting nurse came a few weeks later and chided him for not keeping it clean enough. But it didn't fall off and it didn't get infected. [sneezes] Excuse me. So that was one scene."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What an amazing story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's forever etched in my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the serendipity of that happening to Jesus on the one day that the Peace Corps doctor happened to be right there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:741", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.170001368775747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can you imagine? He never came again. The doctor never came again. We had no idea that he was coming when he did come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And he went on to play. You know, he can continue to play his instrument, his horn. Maybe it was just a horn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet they're still telling that story today in Honduras."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:743", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.744445965306385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And he went on to play. You know, he can continue to play his instrument, his horn. Maybe it was just a horn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet they're still telling that story today in Honduras."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so. It was quite amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So in terms of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:745", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.382717739229316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And he went on to play. You know, he can continue to play his instrument, his horn. Maybe it was just a horn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet they're still telling that story today in Honduras."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so. It was quite amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So in terms of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like I'm lying when I tell that story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but it's true."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:747", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.980797488032573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so. It was quite amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So in terms of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like I'm lying when I tell that story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but it's true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The iguana eggs curing that little boy who looked like he was going to die in a minute. And then Jesus. There was just a lot of drama. Drama."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. So in terms of support from Peace Corps, it sounds like you gave, you had to write reports to them about what you were doing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:749", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.645330542258415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like I'm lying when I tell that story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but it's true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The iguana eggs curing that little boy who looked like he was going to die in a minute. And then Jesus. There was just a lot of drama. Drama."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. So in terms of support from Peace Corps, it sounds like you gave, you had to write reports to them about what you were doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they offer you advice or help in any way? You talk about a little bit of money that you were able to get to buy supplies. When you went, how often did you have to go into the capital city, into Tegucigalpa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:755", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.50936974246696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say that we went every couple of months. It was kind of an R and R situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they did have classes that we would attend. There was a local person, Antonio Casa Solo was his name and he was very big in the radio schools that they had at that time. Radio schools would teach people who lived too far away to go to a regular school or academy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they would use the radio to, to teach and offer certain lessons. And that was Antonio Casa Solo. So he was just such a nice man and very good teacher and he liked working with Peace Corps volunteers. We always felt like we were doing something good for Honduras when he was around. He was very, uh, very uplifting. So, yeah, we would get away. I remember we went to El Salvador one time for a vacation and that was a real, oh, it was just like amazing. We were sitting on the sandy beach in the morning and we saw this sort of like a mirage. It was a woman coming and she had fresh oysters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:757", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.121521936074401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they did have classes that we would attend. There was a local person, Antonio Casa Solo was his name and he was very big in the radio schools that they had at that time. Radio schools would teach people who lived too far away to go to a regular school or academy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they would use the radio to, to teach and offer certain lessons. And that was Antonio Casa Solo. So he was just such a nice man and very good teacher and he liked working with Peace Corps volunteers. We always felt like we were doing something good for Honduras when he was around. He was very, uh, very uplifting. So, yeah, we would get away. I remember we went to El Salvador one time for a vacation and that was a real, oh, it was just like amazing. We were sitting on the sandy beach in the morning and we saw this sort of like a mirage. It was a woman coming and she had fresh oysters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. So, you know, sprinkled in with kind of the, the oddness of being so isolated. We also got to go on trips. And then I even told you this part, maybe Joe told you that his parents came to visit us in their Airstream trailer?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. In his interview, he talked about that. Why don't you talk about what that was like for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:759", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.690579928971556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they would use the radio to, to teach and offer certain lessons. And that was Antonio Casa Solo. So he was just such a nice man and very good teacher and he liked working with Peace Corps volunteers. We always felt like we were doing something good for Honduras when he was around. He was very, uh, very uplifting. So, yeah, we would get away. I remember we went to El Salvador one time for a vacation and that was a real, oh, it was just like amazing. We were sitting on the sandy beach in the morning and we saw this sort of like a mirage. It was a woman coming and she had fresh oysters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. So, you know, sprinkled in with kind of the, the oddness of being so isolated. We also got to go on trips. And then I even told you this part, maybe Joe told you that his parents came to visit us in their Airstream trailer?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. In his interview, he talked about that. Why don't you talk about what that was like for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was nervous because, you know, we had not spent any of our married life around them. So this is the first time they'd seen our little home or our little place. And Joe's dad came in. He looked around, he says, well, it's clean. And that made me feel really good. Because at least it was clean. And they probably stayed for one night. And then we took off and we went to Mexico together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In their Airstream?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:761", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.322866587746173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. So, you know, sprinkled in with kind of the, the oddness of being so isolated. We also got to go on trips. And then I even told you this part, maybe Joe told you that his parents came to visit us in their Airstream trailer?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. In his interview, he talked about that. Why don't you talk about what that was like for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was nervous because, you know, we had not spent any of our married life around them. So this is the first time they'd seen our little home or our little place. And Joe's dad came in. He looked around, he says, well, it's clean. And that made me feel really good. Because at least it was clean. And they probably stayed for one night. And then we took off and we went to Mexico together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In their Airstream?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Airstream, which was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there room in the Airstream for all of you to sleep?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:763", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.914296208606859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was nervous because, you know, we had not spent any of our married life around them. So this is the first time they'd seen our little home or our little place. And Joe's dad came in. He looked around, he says, well, it's clean. And that made me feel really good. Because at least it was clean. And they probably stayed for one night. And then we took off and we went to Mexico together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In their Airstream?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Airstream, which was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there room in the Airstream for all of you to sleep?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just barely. I don't know if Joe told you this, but one time we were in the car, all in the car, and I was like, oh, I'm so tired. Joe's like, I am so tired too. So we went back in the Airstream and I'm sure they knew. It was a little bit of a hoax, but it was a little bit of privacy. And it was really nice to be in this, you know, it was the first privacy that we probably had in a long time. So that was nice. And we went to Teotihuacán."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Mexico City."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:771", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.966005500086661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So every little bit of time that we spent with them was pretty memorable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we did not have a long, a long time to spend with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like we, well. Our second daughter was born. Our third daughter was born just at the point when his mom was dying and his father had already passed away. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had that really good time with them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:773", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.62889500009629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we did not have a long, a long time to spend with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like we, well. Our second daughter was born. Our third daughter was born just at the point when his mom was dying and his father had already passed away. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had that really good time with them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were taking a break. And then after your trip with Joe's parents to Mexico, you went back to Honduras to continue back to your village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:777", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.183820987773197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were taking a break. And then after your trip with Joe's parents to Mexico, you went back to Honduras to continue back to your village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, actually, we must have taken a bus back to Goascoran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they went on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they had a pretty long drive. They drove down from Peoria?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:779", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.093134430859108, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, actually, we must have taken a bus back to Goascoran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they went on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they had a pretty long drive. They drove down from Peoria?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was their thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Crossing Mexico and Guatemala to get to you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:783", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.287820285011244, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was their thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Crossing Mexico and Guatemala to get to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, Jo's mom did that again after she was a widow. She went to the Panama Canal by herself with a Wally Byam Caravan. That's when Airstreamers get together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she drove all that way herself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:789", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.168477757217069, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she was the one who learned to fly when she was 55."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They also had gone to Alaska on the Alcan Highway when it was real rough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were real travelers. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:791", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.742753063574521, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she was the one who learned to fly when she was 55."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They also had gone to Alaska on the Alcan Highway when it was real rough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were real travelers. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they loved road trips. You know, that was their preferred way to travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had, it seems uniquely wonderful that you had a chance to have a little bit of family time there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:793", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.380836737305024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They also had gone to Alaska on the Alcan Highway when it was real rough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were real travelers. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they loved road trips. You know, that was their preferred way to travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had, it seems uniquely wonderful that you had a chance to have a little bit of family time there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, uh, talk about your contacts with other Peace Corps volunteers. You had been part of a group of what did you say, 50 or 60 people in your training group. After deselection that number was a little bit smaller. But then when you got to Honduras, you were all, you were all spread out in different parts of the country."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:795", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.089818597005582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they loved road trips. You know, that was their preferred way to travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had, it seems uniquely wonderful that you had a chance to have a little bit of family time there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, uh, talk about your contacts with other Peace Corps volunteers. You had been part of a group of what did you say, 50 or 60 people in your training group. After deselection that number was a little bit smaller. But then when you got to Honduras, you were all, you were all spread out in different parts of the country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to see those people again?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:801", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.91058792456184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Occasionally. And sometimes they came to visit. You know, they would just take time off on their own. They take their own R and R and they would come and visit us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember Peter Cooey coming. And Ed Arnolds coming. And Ann O'Hara. There were probably others, I just, I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jim Pickard?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim, we went to see because he wasn't too far away, so we would kind of go over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd go to Jim's place?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:805", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.827886326619555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim, we went to see because he wasn't too far away, so we would kind of go over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd go to Jim's place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got to know Jim better when we came back to the States. I didn't, I didn't really know him as well. And he was in a different training group than we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the thing. There were so many training groups at that time. There were over, I think, 250 volunteers in Honduras at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding, in that tiny country? Wow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:809", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.627020156320438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the thing. There were so many training groups at that time. There were over, I think, 250 volunteers in Honduras at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding, in that tiny country? Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, and we did have. Oh, this is a story. I just. I can't believe it happened, but we had a person, Charlie Thomas, who I think had worked for the CIA, and he was one of the in-country directors. He was a very quiet, reserved redheaded person. He was married and lived in Teguc and, um, his wife. She was, I thought she was strange. She invited us for dinner. I think there were six of us, six different Peace Corps volunteers, and we kind of dressed up to go to their house for dinner because it was a special occasion. And we were sitting at this table for quite a long time and there was some kind of, you know, to-do going on in the kitchen. Of course, all the leaders, the, uh, what were they called? Our host country leaders. I can't think of their names. Like Charlie Thomas and Ray Swan and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were Peace Corps people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:817", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.003993531962259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They lived very nicely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had servants and all this stuff. Okay. So we're sitting at this table. And finally the soup is delivered and it's really good soup. We're enjoying this so much. But there was lots of silverware on the table and, you know, it was set in a pretty formal way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Joe, I remember Joe asked for more soup, and that was a good thing because there was never any more food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:819", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.448881702180287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had servants and all this stuff. Okay. So we're sitting at this table. And finally the soup is delivered and it's really good soup. We're enjoying this so much. But there was lots of silverware on the table and, you know, it was set in a pretty formal way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Joe, I remember Joe asked for more soup, and that was a good thing because there was never any more food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it. Something had gone wrong. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something in the kitchen."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:823", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.381335434790477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it. Something had gone wrong. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something in the kitchen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was never explained."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Charlie, whose house it was, he got up and left the table. I think it was even before we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was the in-country director?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:825", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.75703937198942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was never explained."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Charlie, whose house it was, he got up and left the table. I think it was even before we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was the in-country director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. He was one of the directors. Like maybe he was this second in line. Tony Duran was the main director. Tony Duran. Anyway. So Charlie got up and left and went and sat in another room. I think he's reading a newspaper or a book. His wife never offered an explanation of why there was never another course delivered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And here we have hungry Peace Corps volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:831", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.153689124814019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were like, what the hell? This isn't right. So we had popcorn. I remember they did offer some popcorn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No dessert?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember dessert. Anything. It was just the oddest thing. It was like bait and switch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, you're invited to this dinner, and there's really nothing but soup. It was a good thing. I remember thinking, Joe is so smart. He doesn't hold back. He asked for his second bowl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And he got it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:833", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.7263212497933536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember dessert. Anything. It was just the oddest thing. It was like bait and switch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, you're invited to this dinner, and there's really nothing but soup. It was a good thing. I remember thinking, Joe is so smart. He doesn't hold back. He asked for his second bowl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And he got it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But we did have training in country. I mean, it wasn't like there was no more training once we got there. And that was always fun. It was mostly people coming from everywhere, from the south part of Honduras anyway. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your, in your second year there, did you find that you were? Um. What would, how would you describe the difference between your last few months there, or your last year there, and the beginning? Did you find yourself more effective somehow?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:841", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.155344078331585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had a choice of either leaving or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Leaving permanently?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, not necessarily that. But he said the problem was that they had called to check about my dad because they'd heard that he was sick, but in fact he was at work that day. So that kind of stopped all of the momentum towards getting me a ride back to Peoria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he said, now you can go through Mexico. But if they check your passport when you come back and they see that you've been out of Honduras. Yeah. You will be, you will be let go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You won't be allowed to come back in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:843", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.617048975923983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, not necessarily that. But he said the problem was that they had called to check about my dad because they'd heard that he was sick, but in fact he was at work that day. So that kind of stopped all of the momentum towards getting me a ride back to Peoria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he said, now you can go through Mexico. But if they check your passport when you come back and they see that you've been out of Honduras. Yeah. You will be, you will be let go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You won't be allowed to come back in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps would not accept you back if you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:845", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.130054417693314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he said, now you can go through Mexico. But if they check your passport when you come back and they see that you've been out of Honduras. Yeah. You will be, you will be let go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You won't be allowed to come back in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps would not accept you back if you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so if you went to visit your father, you'd be going against their wishes, as it were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:847", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.700060464103682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps would not accept you back if you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so if you went to visit your father, you'd be going against their wishes, as it were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And they didn't see the great need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because your father was at work."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:849", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.333400515670758, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so if you went to visit your father, you'd be going against their wishes, as it were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And they didn't see the great need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because your father was at work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. He worked until the day before he died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And they didn't, they didn't consider that somebody would be so dedicated to their work that they would be dying and still go to work."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:851", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.03711168407862, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And they didn't see the great need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because your father was at work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. He worked until the day before he died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And they didn't, they didn't consider that somebody would be so dedicated to their work that they would be dying and still go to work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The budget must have been very, very tight. So my father died. So then Joe and I got, of course, we got tickets to go back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the funeral. But not to say goodbye to your dad."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:853", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.8190129823095775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. He worked until the day before he died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And they didn't, they didn't consider that somebody would be so dedicated to their work that they would be dying and still go to work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The budget must have been very, very tight. So my father died. So then Joe and I got, of course, we got tickets to go back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the funeral. But not to say goodbye to your dad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was already gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so sorry."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:857", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 8.541991336184662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was already gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it was a bit of a rift between my mother and me too, because, of course, she was left, you know, as a widow with his younger kids still at home and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was only 59 when my dad died. And, um, there was a little bitterness there and, anyway. It wasn't a good situation. But soon after that I became pregnant, which is very common when there's a death in the family. And the reason I became pregnant is that I had problems with cramping with my IUD so I had it removed and we were going to use other birth control. Well, it never happened. I got pregnant. So then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you went, you went back. After you came home for your father's funeral, you went back to Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:859", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7133237068718472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it was a bit of a rift between my mother and me too, because, of course, she was left, you know, as a widow with his younger kids still at home and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was only 59 when my dad died. And, um, there was a little bitterness there and, anyway. It wasn't a good situation. But soon after that I became pregnant, which is very common when there's a death in the family. And the reason I became pregnant is that I had problems with cramping with my IUD so I had it removed and we were going to use other birth control. Well, it never happened. I got pregnant. So then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you went, you went back. After you came home for your father's funeral, you went back to Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. It was March. We went back in I think mid-March or late March. And then we spent April, May, June. And I think we went home in July or August because Joe was accepted at the University of Chicago Law School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and he had to be back for the start of school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:861", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9036930076353857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was only 59 when my dad died. And, um, there was a little bitterness there and, anyway. It wasn't a good situation. But soon after that I became pregnant, which is very common when there's a death in the family. And the reason I became pregnant is that I had problems with cramping with my IUD so I had it removed and we were going to use other birth control. Well, it never happened. I got pregnant. So then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you went, you went back. After you came home for your father's funeral, you went back to Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. It was March. We went back in I think mid-March or late March. And then we spent April, May, June. And I think we went home in July or August because Joe was accepted at the University of Chicago Law School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and he had to be back for the start of school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And by then, you knew you were pregnant?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:863", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1152144529282064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. It was March. We went back in I think mid-March or late March. And then we spent April, May, June. And I think we went home in July or August because Joe was accepted at the University of Chicago Law School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and he had to be back for the start of school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And by then, you knew you were pregnant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was pregnant, yeah. So there you have it. A lot of drama in two years time. It was so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. Yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:865", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3502382810313405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And by then, you knew you were pregnant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was pregnant, yeah. So there you have it. A lot of drama in two years time. It was so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, happening in two years time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. What was it like leaving Goascoran?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:867", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6113758678126002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was pregnant, yeah. So there you have it. A lot of drama in two years time. It was so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, happening in two years time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. What was it like leaving Goascoran?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there some sort of gathering of local people to say goodbye?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:869", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9015287420140004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, happening in two years time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. What was it like leaving Goascoran?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there some sort of gathering of local people to say goodbye?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that. I mean, I'm sure there was. But I think, um, you know, it was just sort of like, dang, I've got to go home. I have to have this baby. You know, my husband has to get into school. I think we were ready to go. I think, you know, there were ups and downs and moods. I think Joe got a little depressed at times. We both did. You know, it was kind of depressing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you're in a very hard, a hard situation there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:871", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2239208244600004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there some sort of gathering of local people to say goodbye?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that. I mean, I'm sure there was. But I think, um, you know, it was just sort of like, dang, I've got to go home. I have to have this baby. You know, my husband has to get into school. I think we were ready to go. I think, you know, there were ups and downs and moods. I think Joe got a little depressed at times. We both did. You know, it was kind of depressing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you're in a very hard, a hard situation there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were isolated. There was a lot of, uh, you know, it just, it seemed like there was so much that needed to be done. And here we were, clueless, like in terms of big organizations. Or any kind of major change. It was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a smaller, smaller level making some changes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:873", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5821342494000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that. I mean, I'm sure there was. But I think, um, you know, it was just sort of like, dang, I've got to go home. I have to have this baby. You know, my husband has to get into school. I think we were ready to go. I think, you know, there were ups and downs and moods. I think Joe got a little depressed at times. We both did. You know, it was kind of depressing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you're in a very hard, a hard situation there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were isolated. There was a lot of, uh, you know, it just, it seemed like there was so much that needed to be done. And here we were, clueless, like in terms of big organizations. Or any kind of major change. It was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a smaller, smaller level making some changes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn't trade it for the world. It was a great experience. And of course, you know, every experience could always be better, I guess. I guess the Peace Corps organization could have been better. Because I do think they kind of just kissed us goodbye and said, have fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't sound like you had a whole lot of either direction or support from Peace Corps when you were out there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:875", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.9801491660000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were isolated. There was a lot of, uh, you know, it just, it seemed like there was so much that needed to be done. And here we were, clueless, like in terms of big organizations. Or any kind of major change. It was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a smaller, smaller level making some changes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn't trade it for the world. It was a great experience. And of course, you know, every experience could always be better, I guess. I guess the Peace Corps organization could have been better. Because I do think they kind of just kissed us goodbye and said, have fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't sound like you had a whole lot of either direction or support from Peace Corps when you were out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were young and flexible and creative. You found things to do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:877", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.20016574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn't trade it for the world. It was a great experience. And of course, you know, every experience could always be better, I guess. I guess the Peace Corps organization could have been better. Because I do think they kind of just kissed us goodbye and said, have fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't sound like you had a whole lot of either direction or support from Peace Corps when you were out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were young and flexible and creative. You found things to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We liked it. I can remember, this is a pretty, uh. Whenever I walk outside at night and the moon is out, I remember that we would get dropped off on the Pan American Highway and I think it was a kilometer and a half or two kilometers to our village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the Pan American Highway."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:881", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.716254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We liked it. I can remember, this is a pretty, uh. Whenever I walk outside at night and the moon is out, I remember that we would get dropped off on the Pan American Highway and I think it was a kilometer and a half or two kilometers to our village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the Pan American Highway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it was kind of a rocky road, as I remember. But when there was moonlight, it was pretty easy to see. But that's how we would get home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd walk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd walk home from the Pan-American Highway. Yeah. And then to get to Tegucigalpa, you'd walk back that mile and a half or so?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:883", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.01806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it was kind of a rocky road, as I remember. But when there was moonlight, it was pretty easy to see. But that's how we would get home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd walk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd walk home from the Pan-American Highway. Yeah. And then to get to Tegucigalpa, you'd walk back that mile and a half or so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I think, though, sometimes there were, there were, the busito would come to your door because you'd have a suitcase or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. So even leaving you had, you had to pack up, you had to decide what to take with you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:885", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd walk home from the Pan-American Highway. Yeah. And then to get to Tegucigalpa, you'd walk back that mile and a half or so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I think, though, sometimes there were, there were, the busito would come to your door because you'd have a suitcase or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. So even leaving you had, you had to pack up, you had to decide what to take with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All you'd accumulated."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:889", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.14, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All you'd accumulated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't really collect a lot of stuff. We had a few things. I remember a fishnet that we thought was so pretty. One of those real fine fishnets. We used that as wall decoration. Um, hats. Bags."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Music?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean like CDs?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like CDs or some, whatever they had then? Cassette tapes or something. Or 45 records of local music."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:891", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.6, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't really collect a lot of stuff. We had a few things. I remember a fishnet that we thought was so pretty. One of those real fine fishnets. We used that as wall decoration. Um, hats. Bags."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Music?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean like CDs?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like CDs or some, whatever they had then? Cassette tapes or something. Or 45 records of local music."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd have to look in our, we still have our trunk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do? You have your Peace Corps trunk?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:893", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean like CDs?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like CDs or some, whatever they had then? Cassette tapes or something. Or 45 records of local music."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd have to look in our, we still have our trunk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do? You have your Peace Corps trunk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's in storage now, so that every month. Um, no, I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You get back to the United States, you have a baby. You somehow get yourself back to school and finish your undergraduate degree, go on to get a master's degree. And you spent several years teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:895", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd have to look in our, we still have our trunk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do? You have your Peace Corps trunk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's in storage now, so that every month. Um, no, I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You get back to the United States, you have a baby. You somehow get yourself back to school and finish your undergraduate degree, go on to get a master's degree. And you spent several years teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My, part of my training at Erikson Institute was supervised teaching in different centers. And I think I had three different posts during that two year time and closely supervised again with lots of paperwork and. Uh. And that was a good experience. And the neat thing was that when we moved to Florida many years later and I applied to be a certified kindergarten teacher here. The usual protocol is that you go back to school. And it's at USF, which was far from where, you know, it would have been a very big sacrifice for me to go back to school for a couple of classes. It would just have been like maybe 4 hours worth of classes. And amazingly, while I was talking to the person who was looking at my paperwork, she says, oh, we never certify anyone without going back to school, especially since you're out of state, blah, blah, blah. And she answered the phone and said, oh, really? Oh. Oh. Okay. Oh, all right! So I got certified without going back to school, which was a huge relief to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they recognized that you had, you had done all this work in the Peace Corps with, you had really set up your own preschool. You had all this time at the Erikson Institute. You were really very qualified and also experienced. So you put in how many years here in Tampa teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:897", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's in storage now, so that every month. Um, no, I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You get back to the United States, you have a baby. You somehow get yourself back to school and finish your undergraduate degree, go on to get a master's degree. And you spent several years teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My, part of my training at Erikson Institute was supervised teaching in different centers. And I think I had three different posts during that two year time and closely supervised again with lots of paperwork and. Uh. And that was a good experience. And the neat thing was that when we moved to Florida many years later and I applied to be a certified kindergarten teacher here. The usual protocol is that you go back to school. And it's at USF, which was far from where, you know, it would have been a very big sacrifice for me to go back to school for a couple of classes. It would just have been like maybe 4 hours worth of classes. And amazingly, while I was talking to the person who was looking at my paperwork, she says, oh, we never certify anyone without going back to school, especially since you're out of state, blah, blah, blah. And she answered the phone and said, oh, really? Oh. Oh. Okay. Oh, all right! So I got certified without going back to school, which was a huge relief to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they recognized that you had, you had done all this work in the Peace Corps with, you had really set up your own preschool. You had all this time at the Erikson Institute. You were really very qualified and also experienced. So you put in how many years here in Tampa teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "20."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "20 years as a kindergarten teacher?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:899", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My, part of my training at Erikson Institute was supervised teaching in different centers. And I think I had three different posts during that two year time and closely supervised again with lots of paperwork and. Uh. And that was a good experience. And the neat thing was that when we moved to Florida many years later and I applied to be a certified kindergarten teacher here. The usual protocol is that you go back to school. And it's at USF, which was far from where, you know, it would have been a very big sacrifice for me to go back to school for a couple of classes. It would just have been like maybe 4 hours worth of classes. And amazingly, while I was talking to the person who was looking at my paperwork, she says, oh, we never certify anyone without going back to school, especially since you're out of state, blah, blah, blah. And she answered the phone and said, oh, really? Oh. Oh. Okay. Oh, all right! So I got certified without going back to school, which was a huge relief to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they recognized that you had, you had done all this work in the Peace Corps with, you had really set up your own preschool. You had all this time at the Erikson Institute. You were really very qualified and also experienced. So you put in how many years here in Tampa teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "20."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "20 years as a kindergarten teacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I had a lot of Spanish speaking students. So that was another thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the Spanish from Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:901", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "20."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "20 years as a kindergarten teacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I had a lot of Spanish speaking students. So that was another thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the Spanish from Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So anything else you'd like to add?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00007:907", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well. I think if anybody has the desire to go abroad and do some kind of service to just go for it. Do it while you're young because it's harder to do. I know some people do it when they're older, but for me, I would never leave for two years because of my grandchildren."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, do it. It's, it's a wonderful. It's like a mind blowing experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Clearly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'm all for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you, Bev."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00824:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 60.558530478040424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To come back to that question, obviously materials are a primary technology for most applications, and so much of the technology that was developed through the Air Force programs got used in Air Force vehicles as well as in some of NASA’s vehicles, including the [Space] Shuttle. But we were not involved in the direct design of the vehicles or their testing. We were rather, I guess you’d say, consultants about the choice of materials."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any of those discussions about the Manned Orbiting Lab with the Air Force or talking about any of that at the beginning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I really don’t. Nothing comes to mind in the specific that would be, I think, of interest and use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about when you moved to the Associate Administrator position with NASA in 1974 in the Office of Aeronautics and Space Technology. If you can, just talk about that position and what that involved and some of the things you were working on at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Deputy Administrator was in charge of, if you will, managing through the Centers, not directly out of NASA Headquarters [Washington, DC], but through the Centers the science and technology programs of the agency, which were in various technologies, not just in materials but in propulsion, avionics and other technologies. That was the responsibility of that Deputy Administrator to manage that spectrum of activities called science and technology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a lot of interface with the other Centers? You managed all the Centers. Did you visit those Centers?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00824:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 60.163650298039514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, and it interfaced with a bunch of bright technical people and much more at a technology and a technical level. Not that there aren’t politics involved. By politics, I mean you have to defend budgets; you have to get your funding from Congress. That takes some level of political astuteness to do that. But there was a lot more content, technical content to the position at NASA than there was in the position I left in the Air Force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in trying to get the funding for your area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You are the person who’s responsible for every year designing the program or redesigning it or redirecting it, depending on what the requirements are, of laying out the funding requirements for it and defending it within NASA proper, which is to say with the Administrator of NASA and with the other Associate Administrators who were doing the same thing for their areas. Out of that comes finally the budget for the agency, for NASA as an agency, up to being called up to Congress maybe when there were questions about your particular area. So there’s a good deal of political activity. You had to be reasonably politically astute, but I think the work in the Deputy Administrator’s position had a much higher technical content, and for that reason for me was a fun time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Administrator at the time was James [C.] Fletcher."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your relationship like with him?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00824:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 31.982411290010877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know what NASA does today, but I know what we did. I don’t know quite how to express it, but I don’t think I ever felt like that program was my program, but it was the country’s program, and they needed to know as much as we had time to share with them about the program. Most of us, I know Jim Fletcher and Bob Frosch and I, and George Low before that, used to spend a lot of time talking to various groups around the country, from schoolchildren to business groups to whatever, about NASA and about the program and where it stands, so they felt some ownership. I’m not sure what we feel today. We don’t know what there is to own. What is there to own? Well, heavy-lift launch vehicle. Yeah. What is that? Who knows? I don’t know. I’m a little bit at sea at the moment, as I think a lot of people are, about what we can pin our hat on for the next generation. We’ll see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before that launch, they had the approach and landing tests out at Edwards."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see any of those, or what are your memories of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Well, it’s an interesting—see, you’re talking to a technocrat, so the things that might interest me, you’d say, “Oh, come on.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we want to hear what interests you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00824:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.073481618672265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim Beggs. Jim was in General Dynamics. Jim had a position at General Dynamics, and I joined General Dynamics after he left as Vice President for Science and Technology and went on out to set up the Space Systems Division in San Diego [California] and to commercialize the Atlas as a launch vehicle, which it still is being used as such. So, small world, small community. That’s pretty much the life story of yours truly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about the launch real quick for STS-1. In Hans Mark’s book, he quoted you as saying, “We’re number one again,” when the launch went off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you get carried away. You know how it is. But let me tell you, it doesn’t matter how much you know, but when, as you’ve seen these launches, you know, it goes up and then it translates, turns, so that the Orbiter is really underneath and the external tanks up top. I thought when that thing started to rotate, I forgot it was supposed to do that, and I thought, “Oh, my god, what’s it doing?” Then I thought, “Oh, that’s right. It’s supposed to do that.”\\n\\n It was a good time and I really felt most proud of all the people, and I mean not just the NASA people, because there were an awful lot of industry people that contributed in many, many ways, but I was really proud for them. I had a few thoughts about what if it fails. I’m not a pessimist, but you have to think about how will you disport yourself if, in fact, it turns out not to be a success or successful as you might hope it would be. But that was all a waste of time. Somebody said, “Every bit of worrying is a waste of imagination.” So I wasted some imagination, I guess, worrying about that, but, fortunately, I didn’t have to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good moment, I’m sure, watching that first one go off."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00824:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.414979576302514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you get carried away. You know how it is. But let me tell you, it doesn’t matter how much you know, but when, as you’ve seen these launches, you know, it goes up and then it translates, turns, so that the Orbiter is really underneath and the external tanks up top. I thought when that thing started to rotate, I forgot it was supposed to do that, and I thought, “Oh, my god, what’s it doing?” Then I thought, “Oh, that’s right. It’s supposed to do that.”\\n\\n It was a good time and I really felt most proud of all the people, and I mean not just the NASA people, because there were an awful lot of industry people that contributed in many, many ways, but I was really proud for them. I had a few thoughts about what if it fails. I’m not a pessimist, but you have to think about how will you disport yourself if, in fact, it turns out not to be a success or successful as you might hope it would be. But that was all a waste of time. Somebody said, “Every bit of worrying is a waste of imagination.” So I wasted some imagination, I guess, worrying about that, but, fortunately, I didn’t have to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good moment, I’m sure, watching that first one go off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, it really was. We’d gone a long time without any major successes in the space program, although some of the science activities had gone on. I remember the Viking Landers, which I found to be very, very interesting, but aren’t quite the eye-catcher that flying people in space is. There’s no question that you need to put people there to really get the attention of the public, certainly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things that I wanted to talk about before we got off of that time period was in July of ’79, we were talking about people’s perceptions of NASA, and Skylab reentered the Earth’s atmosphere."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00824:98", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.15684241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not going to tell any stories out of school, but Tom [Thomas L.] Moser I give credit for setting up this last encounter here, and also I should say Charlie Bolden supported the Ham and Eggs Society group in terms of viewing the last launch. Many of them are not with us. Walt [Walter C.] Williams is gone. I can’t recall the number of people who have passed on. Certainly, give it another ten years; they’ll probably all be gone except for a few of the young bucks who will still be around. But, no, I don’t have any stories. I’d better keep to myself about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What’s the common thread with all of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we all set that date two years in advance and then set about to make it happen at the lowest risk we could, and it was a lot of work to be done at Marshall and at JSC and in the industry and down at KSC. The facilities weren’t even complete down here to accommodate the launch. So I think it’s almost unbelievable that viewing the workload that was in front of this team of people, that they could sit there two years in advance and set a date and then make it happen. We had an unforeseen software glitch, which if we had shut down and cranked up again would probably have gone away, but that’s not the way NASA works. So we said, “We’re going to find out why it shut down,” and the Johnson team, simulator team out there did find out. I don’t know that that answers your question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How important was it for this group to have someone in your position to be part of that decision? Because you had to support that date, Headquarters had to say, “Yes, we’ll support that date,” because as you mentioned, you had to go defend the program in front of Congress to answer those questions. You bought into it just as much. You had confidence in them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they must have had confidence in you that you would support them. So you put all those ham and eggs in one basket."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00824:102", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.255361000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they must have had confidence in you that you would support them. So you put all those ham and eggs in one basket."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Make an omelet pretty quick, huh?\\n\\n I would have to say that the fact that I accepted, because I left the room and I said, “You guys hammer away on this thing, without my being present, and then I’ll come back and we’ll talk about the date.” I think the fact that I accepted that date without saying, “Oh, well, did you consider this?” was a display of confidence in this group, that there was no other better way to demonstrate than to say, “Okay, you believe it, I believe it.”\\n\\n It certainly made congressional interface easier for me, but that wasn’t entirely what I had in mind. It was a massive research and development program that rolled on and on and on and on, and the Congress said, “That’s wonderful, but when are we going to launch?”\\n\\n I think they had confidence in me, but they had confidence because I had confidence in them, and they were just a bright group of people who worked hard and came up with the right date, right answer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was my last question. I just wanted to ask about your thoughts about that brain trust of men."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, and, you know, there wasn’t a woman in there, and that’s a tragedy. Here I used to go around the country and I’d say, “Look what we did. We put a man on the Moon and we brought him back safely. Isn’t that wonderful?” Oh, everybody clapped, clap, clap, clap, clap. I said, “Do you realize we did that without 70 percent of the intellect of this country? We never even used it. We didn’t use any females. Minorities weren’t in the picture. So whatever you think that is, 70 percent or whatever, that’s what we accomplished. Can you imagine what we could do if we could get it all together?” I still believe that today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00824:104", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.83929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Make an omelet pretty quick, huh?\\n\\n I would have to say that the fact that I accepted, because I left the room and I said, “You guys hammer away on this thing, without my being present, and then I’ll come back and we’ll talk about the date.” I think the fact that I accepted that date without saying, “Oh, well, did you consider this?” was a display of confidence in this group, that there was no other better way to demonstrate than to say, “Okay, you believe it, I believe it.”\\n\\n It certainly made congressional interface easier for me, but that wasn’t entirely what I had in mind. It was a massive research and development program that rolled on and on and on and on, and the Congress said, “That’s wonderful, but when are we going to launch?”\\n\\n I think they had confidence in me, but they had confidence because I had confidence in them, and they were just a bright group of people who worked hard and came up with the right date, right answer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was my last question. I just wanted to ask about your thoughts about that brain trust of men."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, and, you know, there wasn’t a woman in there, and that’s a tragedy. Here I used to go around the country and I’d say, “Look what we did. We put a man on the Moon and we brought him back safely. Isn’t that wonderful?” Oh, everybody clapped, clap, clap, clap, clap. I said, “Do you realize we did that without 70 percent of the intellect of this country? We never even used it. We didn’t use any females. Minorities weren’t in the picture. So whatever you think that is, 70 percent or whatever, that’s what we accomplished. Can you imagine what we could do if we could get it all together?” I still believe that today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do.\n\nYes, definitely."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00824:106", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.4881, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, and, you know, there wasn’t a woman in there, and that’s a tragedy. Here I used to go around the country and I’d say, “Look what we did. We put a man on the Moon and we brought him back safely. Isn’t that wonderful?” Oh, everybody clapped, clap, clap, clap, clap. I said, “Do you realize we did that without 70 percent of the intellect of this country? We never even used it. We didn’t use any females. Minorities weren’t in the picture. So whatever you think that is, 70 percent or whatever, that’s what we accomplished. Can you imagine what we could do if we could get it all together?” I still believe that today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do.\n\nYes, definitely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would think you two would appreciate it. We made some progress, but it’s miniscule compared to where we were. We’ve got a long way to go, and we’re going to see a female President one of these days, maybe upcoming. I don’t know. We’ll see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to see."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00824:108", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do.\n\nYes, definitely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would think you two would appreciate it. We made some progress, but it’s miniscule compared to where we were. We’ve got a long way to go, and we’re going to see a female President one of these days, maybe upcoming. I don’t know. We’ll see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it is a case that we don’t use the whole intellectual capability of the United States. We say, “Well, that’s a man’s world.” That’s baloney. There’s other words for that than baloney, but we’ll be polite."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you wanted to mention?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00824:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.01, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would think you two would appreciate it. We made some progress, but it’s miniscule compared to where we were. We’ve got a long way to go, and we’re going to see a female President one of these days, maybe upcoming. I don’t know. We’ll see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it is a case that we don’t use the whole intellectual capability of the United States. We say, “Well, that’s a man’s world.” That’s baloney. There’s other words for that than baloney, but we’ll be polite."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you wanted to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think you’ve covered the ground pretty well. I probably have said more than I should about my anxieties about the current administration, but they’re real."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in charge of a lot of the commercial launch services for General Dynamics."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00824:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 8.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it is a case that we don’t use the whole intellectual capability of the United States. We say, “Well, that’s a man’s world.” That’s baloney. There’s other words for that than baloney, but we’ll be polite."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you wanted to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think you’ve covered the ground pretty well. I probably have said more than I should about my anxieties about the current administration, but they’re real."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in charge of a lot of the commercial launch services for General Dynamics."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the idea of going into space and using commercial for the future, what do you think about that compared to what you were doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00824:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think you’ve covered the ground pretty well. I probably have said more than I should about my anxieties about the current administration, but they’re real."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in charge of a lot of the commercial launch services for General Dynamics."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the idea of going into space and using commercial for the future, what do you think about that compared to what you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I spent a lot of General Dynamics’ money, I guess, redoing the launch complexes down here and getting the production back up for the Atlas, and it got to the point where they developed a new financial unit. It’s called the Lovelace Unit. It was 100 million dollars. Well, we did put a lot of money into it, and but we couldn’t convince NASA that they needed to have commercial launch services. “No, we don’t need that. Air Force doesn’t need it. We don’t need that.”\\n\\n Our first launch was for the Italians. We got some overseas launches, Japanese and Italian. Then we got some U.S. launches, a few U.S. launches into it. It’s ironic to hear the Obama administration saying, “We want a commercial launch service, and we’re going to turn a lot of this over to the industry and they can make the investment.” Where were they when I needed them?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s all about timing, isn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.987646596768878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, now, I was only one of many test pilots that they were screening the records of. I was at Edwards Air Force Base [California] in experimental flight tests. I was the Project Manager of a number of the programs; in fact, I had about 14 programs that I was actively pursuing at the time. I also could fly over at Flight Ops [Operations], and I was very happy in my job when I was ordered to report to Washington [DC]. No explanation or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you even at least made application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I didn’t even know we were going to have a space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a big grab bag, and they reached in and grabbed you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, there were three of us from the base that were leaving, that were ordered to report to Washington. And our commander called us in and said, “Do you have any idea what this is about?” We said, “No, sir. We don’t.” He said, “Well, I don’t either.” But he said, “Don’t go volunteering for anything foolish.” [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so, what happened after that? How did you find out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.875162885298753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I didn’t even know we were going to have a space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a big grab bag, and they reached in and grabbed you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, there were three of us from the base that were leaving, that were ordered to report to Washington. And our commander called us in and said, “Do you have any idea what this is about?” We said, “No, sir. We don’t.” He said, “Well, I don’t either.” But he said, “Don’t go volunteering for anything foolish.” [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so, what happened after that? How did you find out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We reported into Washington; and we were told we were going to have a space program. “You’re one of a number of potential candidates to start the competitive process for selecting astronauts for this program. And we’ll give you a whole day of briefing on who’s going to be involved, what your position would be within the program, who you’ll be working with, how we’ll utilize it, how the program will be developed, our best-guesses at this point in time and how, step-by-step, we’ll develop the program. And those who are interested, you can sign up at the end of the day; and those who are not interested, can return home. No questions asked.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I take it you signed up at the end of the day."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.861292094776392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, there were three of us from the base that were leaving, that were ordered to report to Washington. And our commander called us in and said, “Do you have any idea what this is about?” We said, “No, sir. We don’t.” He said, “Well, I don’t either.” But he said, “Don’t go volunteering for anything foolish.” [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so, what happened after that? How did you find out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We reported into Washington; and we were told we were going to have a space program. “You’re one of a number of potential candidates to start the competitive process for selecting astronauts for this program. And we’ll give you a whole day of briefing on who’s going to be involved, what your position would be within the program, who you’ll be working with, how we’ll utilize it, how the program will be developed, our best-guesses at this point in time and how, step-by-step, we’ll develop the program. And those who are interested, you can sign up at the end of the day; and those who are not interested, can return home. No questions asked.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I take it you signed up at the end of the day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I signed up at the end of the day. I did have one or two thoughts about, “[Do] I want to give up the job that I had and go into a new unknown?” I didn’t hesitate very long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever regret that decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.956991216418213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We reported into Washington; and we were told we were going to have a space program. “You’re one of a number of potential candidates to start the competitive process for selecting astronauts for this program. And we’ll give you a whole day of briefing on who’s going to be involved, what your position would be within the program, who you’ll be working with, how we’ll utilize it, how the program will be developed, our best-guesses at this point in time and how, step-by-step, we’ll develop the program. And those who are interested, you can sign up at the end of the day; and those who are not interested, can return home. No questions asked.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I take it you signed up at the end of the day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I signed up at the end of the day. I did have one or two thoughts about, “[Do] I want to give up the job that I had and go into a new unknown?” I didn’t hesitate very long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever regret that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Explain that to me, would you, Gordo?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.063323573798014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I signed up at the end of the day. I did have one or two thoughts about, “[Do] I want to give up the job that I had and go into a new unknown?” I didn’t hesitate very long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever regret that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Explain that to me, would you, Gordo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think, you know, when we got on the program, I practically had to pinch myself every day to think that I’m really here, because it was really an opportunity to really do some pioneering, because we had no idea what we’d find in space. And every day was truly an “Oh, gee whiz!” day. We were learning as we moved along, and we were in a position to really design the program as we started it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the beginning, how did you get along with the other six of the seven?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.070359526442237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Explain that to me, would you, Gordo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think, you know, when we got on the program, I practically had to pinch myself every day to think that I’m really here, because it was really an opportunity to really do some pioneering, because we had no idea what we’d find in space. And every day was truly an “Oh, gee whiz!” day. We were learning as we moved along, and we were in a position to really design the program as we started it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the beginning, how did you get along with the other six of the seven?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, very well. I knew most of them from previous programs. Of course, I knew the other two Air Force officers very well and had been with Gus [Virgil I.] Grissom for a number of years before the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, beyond that, can you go more detail into on these answers for me?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.189288362713597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think, you know, when we got on the program, I practically had to pinch myself every day to think that I’m really here, because it was really an opportunity to really do some pioneering, because we had no idea what we’d find in space. And every day was truly an “Oh, gee whiz!” day. We were learning as we moved along, and we were in a position to really design the program as we started it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the beginning, how did you get along with the other six of the seven?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, very well. I knew most of them from previous programs. Of course, I knew the other two Air Force officers very well and had been with Gus [Virgil I.] Grissom for a number of years before the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, beyond that, can you go more detail into on these answers for me?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we got along very well. I think we were all a close little group. We were kind of like a bunch of brothers. We might argue amongst ourselves. We might have disagreements. But we were able to put our collective thoughts together; and when we came out with a decision out of the astronaut room, it was a single decision. There were no minority and majority decisions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there what you might call a competitive urge? Was the competition very strong? There are movies and there are books that would lead us to believe that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.43254262523733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, very well. I knew most of them from previous programs. Of course, I knew the other two Air Force officers very well and had been with Gus [Virgil I.] Grissom for a number of years before the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, beyond that, can you go more detail into on these answers for me?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we got along very well. I think we were all a close little group. We were kind of like a bunch of brothers. We might argue amongst ourselves. We might have disagreements. But we were able to put our collective thoughts together; and when we came out with a decision out of the astronaut room, it was a single decision. There were no minority and majority decisions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there what you might call a competitive urge? Was the competition very strong? There are movies and there are books that would lead us to believe that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, everybody was very competitive. I think we all were very competitive. But I think there was some difference between all of us and who really super team players and who were super competitors. It ranged all the way, but everybody was on the high level of competition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t have to answer this question, but I’d appreciate it if you would. Can you give me your impressions of the other members of the group at that time? Not today; today, you’re all very friendly. But I wonder, at that time, your impressions of the rest of the Mercury group."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.480602916930366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we got along very well. I think we were all a close little group. We were kind of like a bunch of brothers. We might argue amongst ourselves. We might have disagreements. But we were able to put our collective thoughts together; and when we came out with a decision out of the astronaut room, it was a single decision. There were no minority and majority decisions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there what you might call a competitive urge? Was the competition very strong? There are movies and there are books that would lead us to believe that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, everybody was very competitive. I think we all were very competitive. But I think there was some difference between all of us and who really super team players and who were super competitors. It ranged all the way, but everybody was on the high level of competition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t have to answer this question, but I’d appreciate it if you would. Can you give me your impressions of the other members of the group at that time? Not today; today, you’re all very friendly. But I wonder, at that time, your impressions of the rest of the Mercury group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the things that impressed was I realized immediately that the Navy had given their officers a little better schooling and a little better orientation in public relations. Those of us from the Air Force [who came] in shaking the sand out of our leather jackets were at a little bit of a new experience on any kind of public relations. So we rather had to learn. And, of course, the one who was the most experienced in it and the most talented in it was John [H.] Glenn [Jr.]. He was already a very professional public relations man. And then the three Navy officers were certainly more schooled in public relations than we were from the Air Force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s take them one by one. Can we do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.64511435214485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, everybody was very competitive. I think we all were very competitive. But I think there was some difference between all of us and who really super team players and who were super competitors. It ranged all the way, but everybody was on the high level of competition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t have to answer this question, but I’d appreciate it if you would. Can you give me your impressions of the other members of the group at that time? Not today; today, you’re all very friendly. But I wonder, at that time, your impressions of the rest of the Mercury group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the things that impressed was I realized immediately that the Navy had given their officers a little better schooling and a little better orientation in public relations. Those of us from the Air Force [who came] in shaking the sand out of our leather jackets were at a little bit of a new experience on any kind of public relations. So we rather had to learn. And, of course, the one who was the most experienced in it and the most talented in it was John [H.] Glenn [Jr.]. He was already a very professional public relations man. And then the three Navy officers were certainly more schooled in public relations than we were from the Air Force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s take them one by one. Can we do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alan [B.] Shepard [Jr.], for instance. What were your impressions of him?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.716793724605388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the things that impressed was I realized immediately that the Navy had given their officers a little better schooling and a little better orientation in public relations. Those of us from the Air Force [who came] in shaking the sand out of our leather jackets were at a little bit of a new experience on any kind of public relations. So we rather had to learn. And, of course, the one who was the most experienced in it and the most talented in it was John [H.] Glenn [Jr.]. He was already a very professional public relations man. And then the three Navy officers were certainly more schooled in public relations than we were from the Air Force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s take them one by one. Can we do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alan [B.] Shepard [Jr.], for instance. What were your impressions of him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had met Al and had known of Al through some joint programs that we had had between the test centers. I had known of him and very, very briefly had met him previously, but we met on the start of the competition. He and I were in the first group to start out on the competition together, the first group of six; and we went through all the whole competitive process together. So, we were close friends before we came on the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[M.] Scott Carpenter."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.796437471783765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alan [B.] Shepard [Jr.], for instance. What were your impressions of him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had met Al and had known of Al through some joint programs that we had had between the test centers. I had known of him and very, very briefly had met him previously, but we met on the start of the competition. He and I were in the first group to start out on the competition together, the first group of six; and we went through all the whole competitive process together. So, we were close friends before we came on the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[M.] Scott Carpenter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Scott I met in Washington. I had not known Scott before. I met him in Washington when the large group was assembled; and then, of course, met him when we came on the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Deke [Donald K.] Slayton."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.662708301981962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had met Al and had known of Al through some joint programs that we had had between the test centers. I had known of him and very, very briefly had met him previously, but we met on the start of the competition. He and I were in the first group to start out on the competition together, the first group of six; and we went through all the whole competitive process together. So, we were close friends before we came on the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[M.] Scott Carpenter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Scott I met in Washington. I had not known Scott before. I met him in Washington when the large group was assembled; and then, of course, met him when we came on the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Deke [Donald K.] Slayton."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deke I had known at Edwards. Of course, we were stationed together there at Edwards, so I knew Deke very well from years back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of a man was Deke?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.625231446646623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Scott I met in Washington. I had not known Scott before. I met him in Washington when the large group was assembled; and then, of course, met him when we came on the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Deke [Donald K.] Slayton."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deke I had known at Edwards. Of course, we were stationed together there at Edwards, so I knew Deke very well from years back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of a man was Deke?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deke was a great guy and a very close friend. He was a good pilot and a good administrator, and really a solid citizen type."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Gus Grissom?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.472479385162913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deke I had known at Edwards. Of course, we were stationed together there at Edwards, so I knew Deke very well from years back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of a man was Deke?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deke was a great guy and a very close friend. He was a good pilot and a good administrator, and really a solid citizen type."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Gus Grissom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gus, of course, was probably my closest friend of all of them because I had been with him for a number of years previous and we had done a lot of flying together; we’d been in school together; we’d been in Test Pilot School together. So were old, long-time friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wally [Walter M.] Schirra [Jr.]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.302754872403238, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deke was a great guy and a very close friend. He was a good pilot and a good administrator, and really a solid citizen type."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Gus Grissom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gus, of course, was probably my closest friend of all of them because I had been with him for a number of years previous and we had done a lot of flying together; we’d been in school together; we’d been in Test Pilot School together. So were old, long-time friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wally [Walter M.] Schirra [Jr.]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wally I had known just briefly. I had never known him until we really got into meeting in Washington for the start of the competition. But, Wally and I always hit it off very well; and Wally is a great, great guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the beginning, back as you were first starting Mercury, specialization was pretty much the order of the day. In what did you specialize, and what did it do for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.114172080448043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gus, of course, was probably my closest friend of all of them because I had been with him for a number of years previous and we had done a lot of flying together; we’d been in school together; we’d been in Test Pilot School together. So were old, long-time friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wally [Walter M.] Schirra [Jr.]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wally I had known just briefly. I had never known him until we really got into meeting in Washington for the start of the competition. But, Wally and I always hit it off very well; and Wally is a great, great guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the beginning, back as you were first starting Mercury, specialization was pretty much the order of the day. In what did you specialize, and what did it do for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a lot of propulsion background in my education. I had worked a lot on engines and propulsion, so I more or less was moved into the first of the propulsion systems we were going to be working with, which was the Redstone rocket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Redstone. But you didn’t fly in Redstone? Why was that, do you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.01574675605338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wally I had known just briefly. I had never known him until we really got into meeting in Washington for the start of the competition. But, Wally and I always hit it off very well; and Wally is a great, great guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the beginning, back as you were first starting Mercury, specialization was pretty much the order of the day. In what did you specialize, and what did it do for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a lot of propulsion background in my education. I had worked a lot on engines and propulsion, so I more or less was moved into the first of the propulsion systems we were going to be working with, which was the Redstone rocket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Redstone. But you didn’t fly in Redstone? Why was that, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were saving me for the last and the best, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] Spoken like a true Mercury astronaut. Well, you know, as we begin into the flight program itself, prior to the flight program, if I remember correctly (and I’d need your anal¬ysis of this, if you would give it to me), most of the things with which you trained—the training articles—didn’t exist. They had to be worked up, dreamed up . . ."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.017496395614867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a lot of propulsion background in my education. I had worked a lot on engines and propulsion, so I more or less was moved into the first of the propulsion systems we were going to be working with, which was the Redstone rocket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Redstone. But you didn’t fly in Redstone? Why was that, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were saving me for the last and the best, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] Spoken like a true Mercury astronaut. Well, you know, as we begin into the flight program itself, prior to the flight program, if I remember correctly (and I’d need your anal¬ysis of this, if you would give it to me), most of the things with which you trained—the training articles—didn’t exist. They had to be worked up, dreamed up . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s right. And people ask why we trained on a lot of the things we did. We trained in anything we could think of to train on that might be of value to us, we tried and trained on, because we were literally writing the book on how to train an astronaut as we went along. So anything that we thought might be of any help at all, we got busy and did some training on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn’t it a little strange that you could design equipment when you didn’t even know what the conditions were under which your body would function or not function as the case might be?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.130551550683185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were saving me for the last and the best, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] Spoken like a true Mercury astronaut. Well, you know, as we begin into the flight program itself, prior to the flight program, if I remember correctly (and I’d need your anal¬ysis of this, if you would give it to me), most of the things with which you trained—the training articles—didn’t exist. They had to be worked up, dreamed up . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s right. And people ask why we trained on a lot of the things we did. We trained in anything we could think of to train on that might be of value to us, we tried and trained on, because we were literally writing the book on how to train an astronaut as we went along. So anything that we thought might be of any help at all, we got busy and did some training on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn’t it a little strange that you could design equipment when you didn’t even know what the conditions were under which your body would function or not function as the case might be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the best of “medical experts” (and I put that in quotes) had no idea what the body would or would not do. I can remember that a lot of the medical experts were claiming that the body would not accept any fluid or food and be able to swallow in under zero gravity, that we would probably choke. And there were a lot of other of these “medical experts” who said that man could not withstand the rigors of the launch, and others who said that zero gravity—the cardiovascular system would not be able to function under zero gravity. So there was very little known about the total human body at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever worry about all that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.256168389647984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s right. And people ask why we trained on a lot of the things we did. We trained in anything we could think of to train on that might be of value to us, we tried and trained on, because we were literally writing the book on how to train an astronaut as we went along. So anything that we thought might be of any help at all, we got busy and did some training on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn’t it a little strange that you could design equipment when you didn’t even know what the conditions were under which your body would function or not function as the case might be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the best of “medical experts” (and I put that in quotes) had no idea what the body would or would not do. I can remember that a lot of the medical experts were claiming that the body would not accept any fluid or food and be able to swallow in under zero gravity, that we would probably choke. And there were a lot of other of these “medical experts” who said that man could not withstand the rigors of the launch, and others who said that zero gravity—the cardiovascular system would not be able to function under zero gravity. So there was very little known about the total human body at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever worry about all that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we really didn’t. I think the man who had the most practical point of view on it was Dr. Bill [William K.] Douglas, who really felt that man was a lot stronger and a lot more rugged a device than the medical profession gave him credit for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The powers-that-be finally decided on flight systems, and I guess one of the things they were thinking of was that astronauts should talk to astronauts. So all of you took up different positions along the line. Can you describe how that functioned, how it worked when actually the first flights began?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.506853766275537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the best of “medical experts” (and I put that in quotes) had no idea what the body would or would not do. I can remember that a lot of the medical experts were claiming that the body would not accept any fluid or food and be able to swallow in under zero gravity, that we would probably choke. And there were a lot of other of these “medical experts” who said that man could not withstand the rigors of the launch, and others who said that zero gravity—the cardiovascular system would not be able to function under zero gravity. So there was very little known about the total human body at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever worry about all that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we really didn’t. I think the man who had the most practical point of view on it was Dr. Bill [William K.] Douglas, who really felt that man was a lot stronger and a lot more rugged a device than the medical profession gave him credit for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The powers-that-be finally decided on flight systems, and I guess one of the things they were thinking of was that astronauts should talk to astronauts. So all of you took up different positions along the line. Can you describe how that functioned, how it worked when actually the first flights began?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this made a lot of sense because, since we’d been training together, we were certainly the most experienced on all the different systems; and the astronaut system interfaced, so that putting the rest of us in, when one made a flight, positions around the world really made a lot of sense. Because we knew what that astronaut making the flight was going through, and knew the systems and knew the cockpit and knew all the switches and everything better than anybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You manned some of those positions. Can you describe those for me, in detail?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.452059740306153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we really didn’t. I think the man who had the most practical point of view on it was Dr. Bill [William K.] Douglas, who really felt that man was a lot stronger and a lot more rugged a device than the medical profession gave him credit for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The powers-that-be finally decided on flight systems, and I guess one of the things they were thinking of was that astronauts should talk to astronauts. So all of you took up different positions along the line. Can you describe how that functioned, how it worked when actually the first flights began?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this made a lot of sense because, since we’d been training together, we were certainly the most experienced on all the different systems; and the astronaut system interfaced, so that putting the rest of us in, when one made a flight, positions around the world really made a lot of sense. Because we knew what that astronaut making the flight was going through, and knew the systems and knew the cockpit and knew all the switches and everything better than anybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You manned some of those positions. Can you describe those for me, in detail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for instance, on the very first one, you’re talking about the Redstone. What we really were doing was the key part of the launching was being done out of the blockhouse for the Redstone, and I was the capsule communicator in the blockhouse. So I controlled all of the communications going in and out of the spacecraft to the ground. I had worked very closely with Al on all the final countdown and all the pre-tests and then the testing, and we’d put in a lot of time—long, long hours—getting to that point ready for launch. So, I was there. And then as we progressed through the various flights, generally the backup of the team would be the man who’d be the capsule communicator; and, of course, later we were moving the authority for the flight after liftoff, once we opened the Houston site, then the Mercury Control Center moved to Houston after liftoff. So, the capsule communicator generally would be in the Control Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was actually in the Gemini series, wasn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.502288600340169, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this made a lot of sense because, since we’d been training together, we were certainly the most experienced on all the different systems; and the astronaut system interfaced, so that putting the rest of us in, when one made a flight, positions around the world really made a lot of sense. Because we knew what that astronaut making the flight was going through, and knew the systems and knew the cockpit and knew all the switches and everything better than anybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You manned some of those positions. Can you describe those for me, in detail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for instance, on the very first one, you’re talking about the Redstone. What we really were doing was the key part of the launching was being done out of the blockhouse for the Redstone, and I was the capsule communicator in the blockhouse. So I controlled all of the communications going in and out of the spacecraft to the ground. I had worked very closely with Al on all the final countdown and all the pre-tests and then the testing, and we’d put in a lot of time—long, long hours—getting to that point ready for launch. So, I was there. And then as we progressed through the various flights, generally the backup of the team would be the man who’d be the capsule communicator; and, of course, later we were moving the authority for the flight after liftoff, once we opened the Houston site, then the Mercury Control Center moved to Houston after liftoff. So, the capsule communicator generally would be in the Control Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was actually in the Gemini series, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During Mercury it stayed at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida], as I remember."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.66920955593352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for instance, on the very first one, you’re talking about the Redstone. What we really were doing was the key part of the launching was being done out of the blockhouse for the Redstone, and I was the capsule communicator in the blockhouse. So I controlled all of the communications going in and out of the spacecraft to the ground. I had worked very closely with Al on all the final countdown and all the pre-tests and then the testing, and we’d put in a lot of time—long, long hours—getting to that point ready for launch. So, I was there. And then as we progressed through the various flights, generally the backup of the team would be the man who’d be the capsule communicator; and, of course, later we were moving the authority for the flight after liftoff, once we opened the Houston site, then the Mercury Control Center moved to Houston after liftoff. So, the capsule communicator generally would be in the Control Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was actually in the Gemini series, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During Mercury it stayed at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida], as I remember."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then, working out of the Cape as they were, you’ve described the Shepard flight. You were in the blockhouse. Where were you for Grissom’s Liberty Bell?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.965788395481688, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During Mercury it stayed at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida], as I remember."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then, working out of the Cape as they were, you’ve described the Shepard flight. You were in the blockhouse. Where were you for Grissom’s Liberty Bell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the Control Center at the Cape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It says here, by the way, that you were also flying chase in an F-106."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.406431550535208, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then, working out of the Cape as they were, you’ve described the Shepard flight. You were in the blockhouse. Where were you for Grissom’s Liberty Bell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the Control Center at the Cape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It says here, by the way, that you were also flying chase in an F-106."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you’re right. [laughs] As a matter of fact, . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] My notes are pretty accurate. They were given to me by the historians."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.78492394503912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the Control Center at the Cape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It says here, by the way, that you were also flying chase in an F-106."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you’re right. [laughs] As a matter of fact, . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] My notes are pretty accurate. They were given to me by the historians."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re correct. We decided we would . . . We wanted to see, because we’d had trouble with the first Mercury-Atlas disintegrating and determining that the interface between the spacecraft and the booster was a questionable entity, we wanted to get some pictures of the high-Q phase (in other words, as you’re going through the densest atmosphere at the fastest speed, which gives you the most dynamic pressure and causes the greatest stress on the spacecraft/booster interface). We wanted to get some pictures of that and just be able to see if we could get in close. So I had a Bell & Howell photon camera and came in with the 106 to pick up Gus as he began to move over and really began to get into the high-Q area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After that, it says here that you went to Point Arguello [California] for the chimpanzee Enos two-orbit flight. You couldn’t communicate with the chimpanzee, could you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.761026605599023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you’re right. [laughs] As a matter of fact, . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] My notes are pretty accurate. They were given to me by the historians."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re correct. We decided we would . . . We wanted to see, because we’d had trouble with the first Mercury-Atlas disintegrating and determining that the interface between the spacecraft and the booster was a questionable entity, we wanted to get some pictures of the high-Q phase (in other words, as you’re going through the densest atmosphere at the fastest speed, which gives you the most dynamic pressure and causes the greatest stress on the spacecraft/booster interface). We wanted to get some pictures of that and just be able to see if we could get in close. So I had a Bell & Howell photon camera and came in with the 106 to pick up Gus as he began to move over and really began to get into the high-Q area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After that, it says here that you went to Point Arguello [California] for the chimpanzee Enos two-orbit flight. You couldn’t communicate with the chimpanzee, could you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was there for Scott Carpenter’s flight. Oh, I’m sorry. I was at Point Arguello for the chimpanzee flight, and then I was at Guaymas [Mexico] for Scotty Carpenter’s flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, you went, in this case, sort of a dress rehearsal, wasn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.845585117332247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re correct. We decided we would . . . We wanted to see, because we’d had trouble with the first Mercury-Atlas disintegrating and determining that the interface between the spacecraft and the booster was a questionable entity, we wanted to get some pictures of the high-Q phase (in other words, as you’re going through the densest atmosphere at the fastest speed, which gives you the most dynamic pressure and causes the greatest stress on the spacecraft/booster interface). We wanted to get some pictures of that and just be able to see if we could get in close. So I had a Bell & Howell photon camera and came in with the 106 to pick up Gus as he began to move over and really began to get into the high-Q area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After that, it says here that you went to Point Arguello [California] for the chimpanzee Enos two-orbit flight. You couldn’t communicate with the chimpanzee, could you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was there for Scott Carpenter’s flight. Oh, I’m sorry. I was at Point Arguello for the chimpanzee flight, and then I was at Guaymas [Mexico] for Scotty Carpenter’s flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, you went, in this case, sort of a dress rehearsal, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the chimp, to see how the systems might work. Well, I guess the one that I remember most was when John Glenn flew, and you went to Australia."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.050650130369164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was there for Scott Carpenter’s flight. Oh, I’m sorry. I was at Point Arguello for the chimpanzee flight, and then I was at Guaymas [Mexico] for Scotty Carpenter’s flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, you went, in this case, sort of a dress rehearsal, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the chimp, to see how the systems might work. Well, I guess the one that I remember most was when John Glenn flew, and you went to Australia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Australia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that one? Because that was pretty wild."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.834055700410181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the chimp, to see how the systems might work. Well, I guess the one that I remember most was when John Glenn flew, and you went to Australia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Australia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that one? Because that was pretty wild."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a great locale. We had the tracking site north of Perth, Australia. And, of course, we had a lot of delays in getting John launched, so I was there for quite a period of time. We had a joint team there composed of both the Australians and Americans. It was a good bunch, and I enjoyed them thoroughly—including the Australian flight surgeon, who was there at our site. So it was a good team, and they did a great job on the tracking side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also, by that time, must have learned a few lessons about public relations. I’m thinking of the people of Perth and the lights. Would you describe that for me?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.371173000455756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Australia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that one? Because that was pretty wild."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a great locale. We had the tracking site north of Perth, Australia. And, of course, we had a lot of delays in getting John launched, so I was there for quite a period of time. We had a joint team there composed of both the Australians and Americans. It was a good bunch, and I enjoyed them thoroughly—including the Australian flight surgeon, who was there at our site. So it was a good team, and they did a great job on the tracking side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also, by that time, must have learned a few lessons about public relations. I’m thinking of the people of Perth and the lights. Would you describe that for me?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was a question about what could an astronaut really see on night-side, in the dark; what could he see in the way of lights? So the people of Perth, including the mayor of Perth, decided that they would bring up all the lights they could. And British Petroleum turned up some big oil-fired torches that they had out south of Perth, that put out umpteen thousand BTUs [British Thermal Units] per torch; they turned all those on. And everybody in Perth brought their lights up to see if John could see the city of Perth. Of course, he could see almost each and every light, but it was a well lit-up area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was certainly one of the best public relations devices for that flight, as well as being an engineering requirement."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.967970000506395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a great locale. We had the tracking site north of Perth, Australia. And, of course, we had a lot of delays in getting John launched, so I was there for quite a period of time. We had a joint team there composed of both the Australians and Americans. It was a good bunch, and I enjoyed them thoroughly—including the Australian flight surgeon, who was there at our site. So it was a good team, and they did a great job on the tracking side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also, by that time, must have learned a few lessons about public relations. I’m thinking of the people of Perth and the lights. Would you describe that for me?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was a question about what could an astronaut really see on night-side, in the dark; what could he see in the way of lights? So the people of Perth, including the mayor of Perth, decided that they would bring up all the lights they could. And British Petroleum turned up some big oil-fired torches that they had out south of Perth, that put out umpteen thousand BTUs [British Thermal Units] per torch; they turned all those on. And everybody in Perth brought their lights up to see if John could see the city of Perth. Of course, he could see almost each and every light, but it was a well lit-up area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was certainly one of the best public relations devices for that flight, as well as being an engineering requirement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It turned out to be—it really captured the imaginations of people, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In an engineering sense, I’m noticing here that you had to get some information from John about the heatshield problem. Do you remember the heatshield—for John was a major problem? And apparently you loomed large in getting the infor¬mation that was necessary to figure out what to do."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.519966667229328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was a question about what could an astronaut really see on night-side, in the dark; what could he see in the way of lights? So the people of Perth, including the mayor of Perth, decided that they would bring up all the lights they could. And British Petroleum turned up some big oil-fired torches that they had out south of Perth, that put out umpteen thousand BTUs [British Thermal Units] per torch; they turned all those on. And everybody in Perth brought their lights up to see if John could see the city of Perth. Of course, he could see almost each and every light, but it was a well lit-up area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was certainly one of the best public relations devices for that flight, as well as being an engineering requirement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It turned out to be—it really captured the imaginations of people, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In an engineering sense, I’m noticing here that you had to get some information from John about the heatshield problem. Do you remember the heatshield—for John was a major problem? And apparently you loomed large in getting the infor¬mation that was necessary to figure out what to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, we’d had an indication that John’s heatshield had already separated; in other words, that it had unlocked—not necessarily separated, but that it had unlocked. So we were con¬cerned that if it were really unlocked, could any wild oscillations jar the heatshield loose and lose the heatshield? So we needed to back ourselves up to give us all the best assurance we could that it was truly still locked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, it worked."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1332962969214755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It turned out to be—it really captured the imaginations of people, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In an engineering sense, I’m noticing here that you had to get some information from John about the heatshield problem. Do you remember the heatshield—for John was a major problem? And apparently you loomed large in getting the infor¬mation that was necessary to figure out what to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, we’d had an indication that John’s heatshield had already separated; in other words, that it had unlocked—not necessarily separated, but that it had unlocked. So we were con¬cerned that if it were really unlocked, could any wild oscillations jar the heatshield loose and lose the heatshield? So we needed to back ourselves up to give us all the best assurance we could that it was truly still locked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, it worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "John was also talking about his attitude control system with you as to the reliability; because if it didn’t work, the thing that might happen, particularly since you were going to try to keep the heatshield connected."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.814773663246084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, we’d had an indication that John’s heatshield had already separated; in other words, that it had unlocked—not necessarily separated, but that it had unlocked. So we were con¬cerned that if it were really unlocked, could any wild oscillations jar the heatshield loose and lose the heatshield? So we needed to back ourselves up to give us all the best assurance we could that it was truly still locked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, it worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "John was also talking about his attitude control system with you as to the reliability; because if it didn’t work, the thing that might happen, particularly since you were going to try to keep the heatshield connected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, but just to back ourselves up, we elected to keep the retropackage on until it burned off, just to give that added few moments of holding the heatshield in place in case it should be unlocked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, finally all these things began to go together, Gordon; and obviously, you served as CapCom [Capsule Communicator], as you mentioned, at Guaymas. Anything special happen there during the Carpenter flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.571970736940092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "John was also talking about his attitude control system with you as to the reliability; because if it didn’t work, the thing that might happen, particularly since you were going to try to keep the heatshield connected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, but just to back ourselves up, we elected to keep the retropackage on until it burned off, just to give that added few moments of holding the heatshield in place in case it should be unlocked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, finally all these things began to go together, Gordon; and obviously, you served as CapCom [Capsule Communicator], as you mentioned, at Guaymas. Anything special happen there during the Carpenter flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not particularly. That was a good tracking site and a good locale for Scott’s flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The real problem on his flight apparently came when he burned to come home; and there were some errors made, so he overshot the landing site."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.413300818822325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, but just to back ourselves up, we elected to keep the retropackage on until it burned off, just to give that added few moments of holding the heatshield in place in case it should be unlocked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, finally all these things began to go together, Gordon; and obviously, you served as CapCom [Capsule Communicator], as you mentioned, at Guaymas. Anything special happen there during the Carpenter flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not particularly. That was a good tracking site and a good locale for Scott’s flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The real problem on his flight apparently came when he burned to come home; and there were some errors made, so he overshot the landing site."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think Scott was really so intense on some of the things he was trying to get some data on that he got a little behind—just a little behind—the curve on his time there; and everything kind of fogged in on him at one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Finally, of course, you were assigned to the last flight in the Mercury series; and that put you in as backup for Wally Schirra with his Sigma 7 mission. Do you remember Wally’s mission? You must’ve been sitting on the edge of your seat because you were up next, trying to glean what informa¬tion you could glean. Was that true?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.686283702088237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On Yeah. It’s true. Wally and I had really worked hard on trying to find a number of things we wanted to find. One, we needed to find out could you really and truly navigate from space, pilotage-wise? Could you see details enough on the ground to really, truly do some pilotage navigation? You’ve got to know I’m coming up here, and I’m coming up here, and I’m coming here. And so we had even inflated the spare Echo balloon and painted the various continents on it and built a simulated spacecraft window from the top of Hangar S and turned this balloon at the right rate so we can see what it would look like from space. That was one of Wally’s first comments, “Gordo, it looks just like the balloon.” So, there were a lot of things that we were wanting to do. We decided that, we felt very strongly that we could develop a technique for flying a lot more than leaving it on partial auto¬pilot or all autopilot. That we could actually get on to the manual tweak mode and just tweak those thrusters and save a lot of fuel. So, Wally was trying this; and I was happy to get that information because it stood me in good stead then on my flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know, of a certainty, that you were going to fly next when you were backup with Wally? Had that been determined at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because I understand there was still some discussion about whether or not you would, indeed, fly in Mercury since Deke, by this time, had been knocked out of the flight-testing portion of the program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, he was knocked out when Scotty took the place on the flight that Deke was originally slated to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Deke was given the job of running the Astronaut Office."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.540315224542486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because I understand there was still some discussion about whether or not you would, indeed, fly in Mercury since Deke, by this time, had been knocked out of the flight-testing portion of the program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, he was knocked out when Scotty took the place on the flight that Deke was originally slated to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Deke was given the job of running the Astronaut Office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As such, I understand he was instrumental in your being the pilot for that [Mercury] 9 mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.489239138380539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, he was knocked out when Scotty took the place on the flight that Deke was originally slated to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Deke was given the job of running the Astronaut Office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As such, I understand he was instrumental in your being the pilot for that [Mercury] 9 mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure he was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then, just before the mission, something happened. You buzzed the Cape. Do you remember that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.2102657093117095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As such, I understand he was instrumental in your being the pilot for that [Mercury] 9 mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure he was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then, just before the mission, something happened. You buzzed the Cape. Do you remember that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was a little mad that day. That was the day before launch, and we had a firm ground rule that we didn’t put anything new into the spacecraft or into the pressure suit or anything at the last minute that you could not adequately test. But the medics had overrid¬den this very firm ground rule we had, and they had cut a big hole in the side of my suit and inserted another great, big metal fitting, which rubbed the heck out of my ribs (by the way) in order to put in a hose for a blood pressure cuff that could automatically inflate and they could take blood pressure whenever they wanted it. And this really antagonized me because we had broken all our ground rules here at the last minute. We also had a little ground rule that we would always go out the day before launch and get one of our fighters and take it out and really shake it down and shake out all the kinks. So, being a little angry at the time when I went out to get my fighter ready to go, I came back over the Cape and buzzed the Cape fairly low; and when Walt [Walter C.] Williams happened to walk out of his office and almost fell flat because I was pretty low coming right by his window, lighting the afterburner, he was a little startled. And he was pretty teed off about it, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Teed off enough that it is reported that he wanted to knock you off on your flight two days before the mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.900295232568566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure he was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then, just before the mission, something happened. You buzzed the Cape. Do you remember that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was a little mad that day. That was the day before launch, and we had a firm ground rule that we didn’t put anything new into the spacecraft or into the pressure suit or anything at the last minute that you could not adequately test. But the medics had overrid¬den this very firm ground rule we had, and they had cut a big hole in the side of my suit and inserted another great, big metal fitting, which rubbed the heck out of my ribs (by the way) in order to put in a hose for a blood pressure cuff that could automatically inflate and they could take blood pressure whenever they wanted it. And this really antagonized me because we had broken all our ground rules here at the last minute. We also had a little ground rule that we would always go out the day before launch and get one of our fighters and take it out and really shake it down and shake out all the kinks. So, being a little angry at the time when I went out to get my fighter ready to go, I came back over the Cape and buzzed the Cape fairly low; and when Walt [Walter C.] Williams happened to walk out of his office and almost fell flat because I was pretty low coming right by his window, lighting the afterburner, he was a little startled. And he was pretty teed off about it, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Teed off enough that it is reported that he wanted to knock you off on your flight two days before the mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was what was reported to me, that Walt just might pull me off the flight as a result."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, apparently Slayton stood as your champion and had others who, of course, agreed; and so you flew."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.555883591742851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was a little mad that day. That was the day before launch, and we had a firm ground rule that we didn’t put anything new into the spacecraft or into the pressure suit or anything at the last minute that you could not adequately test. But the medics had overrid¬den this very firm ground rule we had, and they had cut a big hole in the side of my suit and inserted another great, big metal fitting, which rubbed the heck out of my ribs (by the way) in order to put in a hose for a blood pressure cuff that could automatically inflate and they could take blood pressure whenever they wanted it. And this really antagonized me because we had broken all our ground rules here at the last minute. We also had a little ground rule that we would always go out the day before launch and get one of our fighters and take it out and really shake it down and shake out all the kinks. So, being a little angry at the time when I went out to get my fighter ready to go, I came back over the Cape and buzzed the Cape fairly low; and when Walt [Walter C.] Williams happened to walk out of his office and almost fell flat because I was pretty low coming right by his window, lighting the afterburner, he was a little startled. And he was pretty teed off about it, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Teed off enough that it is reported that he wanted to knock you off on your flight two days before the mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was what was reported to me, that Walt just might pull me off the flight as a result."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, apparently Slayton stood as your champion and had others who, of course, agreed; and so you flew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Walt assured me several years later that he really wasn’t going to pull me off, that he just wanted to worry me on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] That’s priceless. Well, how did you come up with the name Faith 7?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.2843151019365004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was what was reported to me, that Walt just might pull me off the flight as a result."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, apparently Slayton stood as your champion and had others who, of course, agreed; and so you flew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Walt assured me several years later that he really wasn’t going to pull me off, that he just wanted to worry me on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] That’s priceless. Well, how did you come up with the name Faith 7?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, being the last, it was getting harder and harder to pick a name because everybody had picked pretty good names before. It was kind of a large responsibility to pick a name for a spacecraft where it’s before the eyes of the whole world. But I decided that I had a lot of faith in all my hardware and my spacecraft, and I had a lot of faith in the launch team, I had faith in myself, and I had faith in God; and I thought that was just a real dilly of a name. So that became the name: Faith 7."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that there were those at NASA, particularly at Headquarters [Washington DC], who didn’t like the name; because, if something happened, you’d have lost faith."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.871461224373889, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Walt assured me several years later that he really wasn’t going to pull me off, that he just wanted to worry me on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] That’s priceless. Well, how did you come up with the name Faith 7?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, being the last, it was getting harder and harder to pick a name because everybody had picked pretty good names before. It was kind of a large responsibility to pick a name for a spacecraft where it’s before the eyes of the whole world. But I decided that I had a lot of faith in all my hardware and my spacecraft, and I had a lot of faith in the launch team, I had faith in myself, and I had faith in God; and I thought that was just a real dilly of a name. So that became the name: Faith 7."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that there were those at NASA, particularly at Headquarters [Washington DC], who didn’t like the name; because, if something happened, you’d have lost faith."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we never really worried about what Headquarters thought. They always had been against—somewhat against—anything personalized at all anyway. You know, it was safer not to have anything personalized; and the thing that these people at NASA Headquarters didn’t realize is that the personalized thing is what really garnered the public’s attention and the public backing. And, I think that was a bad mistake they made in Gemini when they took away the naming of the spacecraft; and by Jim [James E.] Webb’s own words, he wanted to have space¬craft number 1, 2, [and] 3, and astronaut number 3, 4, and 7, 8. He didn’t want any names involved or any personalities involved. He wanted everything depersonalized. And I think the interest of the public waned as a result of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Funniest thing: On the opposite side, the media, of which I was one at the time, were pushing very hard to personalize the flights. People like yourself obviously didn’t think that was all bad, because you worked with us in that endeavor."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.248717560955419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we never really worried about what Headquarters thought. They always had been against—somewhat against—anything personalized at all anyway. You know, it was safer not to have anything personalized; and the thing that these people at NASA Headquarters didn’t realize is that the personalized thing is what really garnered the public’s attention and the public backing. And, I think that was a bad mistake they made in Gemini when they took away the naming of the spacecraft; and by Jim [James E.] Webb’s own words, he wanted to have space¬craft number 1, 2, [and] 3, and astronaut number 3, 4, and 7, 8. He didn’t want any names involved or any personalities involved. He wanted everything depersonalized. And I think the interest of the public waned as a result of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Funniest thing: On the opposite side, the media, of which I was one at the time, were pushing very hard to personalize the flights. People like yourself obviously didn’t think that was all bad, because you worked with us in that endeavor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think most of us felt that it was important to personalize the flight, that that’s what really made the public get close behind and have a close feeling for these things they followed so closely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You may remember, too, on your flight when you flew it: You gave us the first experimental television—black-and-white, not great, but nonetheless . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was slow scan, but, you know, we’d had a question whether it would even work from space or not. And so it did prove that it would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Funniest thing, though: Again, NASA Headquarters said, “Yeah, that’s fine. But you can’t have it until we get ready to fly off to the Moon.” So, there was a huge gap between your flight and the early television and what happened later. What do you think about something like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.054130623283799, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think most of us felt that it was important to personalize the flight, that that’s what really made the public get close behind and have a close feeling for these things they followed so closely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You may remember, too, on your flight when you flew it: You gave us the first experimental television—black-and-white, not great, but nonetheless . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was slow scan, but, you know, we’d had a question whether it would even work from space or not. And so it did prove that it would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Funniest thing, though: Again, NASA Headquarters said, “Yeah, that’s fine. But you can’t have it until we get ready to fly off to the Moon.” So, there was a huge gap between your flight and the early television and what happened later. What do you think about something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It kind of goes along with what NASA said. I can recall that memo saying that: “If an astronaut desires, he may carry a camera.” That’s the importance they put [on] the pictures from space. And having already been a pretty experienced photographer, that just raked me somewhat. I felt they just didn’t understand the whole thing at all, and they certainly could not put out a memo like that and understand the importance of photography."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was under the impression that every one of the Mercury flights carried cameras."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.726811803648665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was slow scan, but, you know, we’d had a question whether it would even work from space or not. And so it did prove that it would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Funniest thing, though: Again, NASA Headquarters said, “Yeah, that’s fine. But you can’t have it until we get ready to fly off to the Moon.” So, there was a huge gap between your flight and the early television and what happened later. What do you think about something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It kind of goes along with what NASA said. I can recall that memo saying that: “If an astronaut desires, he may carry a camera.” That’s the importance they put [on] the pictures from space. And having already been a pretty experienced photographer, that just raked me somewhat. I felt they just didn’t understand the whole thing at all, and they certainly could not put out a memo like that and understand the importance of photography."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was under the impression that every one of the Mercury flights carried cameras."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, John and Scott carried Instamatics™. Which is fine. It’s better than no camera. So, we went down and locally procured a Hasselblad and modified it for Wally’s flight; Wally and I were working on this. And that was the first quality camera that was taken."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The astronauts themselves did those modifications?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.252013115165183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It kind of goes along with what NASA said. I can recall that memo saying that: “If an astronaut desires, he may carry a camera.” That’s the importance they put [on] the pictures from space. And having already been a pretty experienced photographer, that just raked me somewhat. I felt they just didn’t understand the whole thing at all, and they certainly could not put out a memo like that and understand the importance of photography."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was under the impression that every one of the Mercury flights carried cameras."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, John and Scott carried Instamatics™. Which is fine. It’s better than no camera. So, we went down and locally procured a Hasselblad and modified it for Wally’s flight; Wally and I were working on this. And that was the first quality camera that was taken."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The astronauts themselves did those modifications?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We did it in conjunction with the camera lab, the Air Force camera lab, down at Patrick [AFB, Florida]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you flew a lengthy mission. But before you flew it, I guess you had to rest up on the launch pad. You’re famous for that story."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.724459016850203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, John and Scott carried Instamatics™. Which is fine. It’s better than no camera. So, we went down and locally procured a Hasselblad and modified it for Wally’s flight; Wally and I were working on this. And that was the first quality camera that was taken."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The astronauts themselves did those modifications?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We did it in conjunction with the camera lab, the Air Force camera lab, down at Patrick [AFB, Florida]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you flew a lengthy mission. But before you flew it, I guess you had to rest up on the launch pad. You’re famous for that story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had my work all done and we had a built-in hold to get the range up to speed. I’d already been up several hours, so I thought that would just be a good opportunity to get a little nap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] And you took one."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.2493989076113365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We did it in conjunction with the camera lab, the Air Force camera lab, down at Patrick [AFB, Florida]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you flew a lengthy mission. But before you flew it, I guess you had to rest up on the launch pad. You’re famous for that story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had my work all done and we had a built-in hold to get the range up to speed. I’d already been up several hours, so I thought that would just be a good opportunity to get a little nap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] And you took one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I took a little nap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] Everybody was a little shocked. Obviously, it shows that you were relaxed and that you weren’t really worried about what was going to happen."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.832665452901485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had my work all done and we had a built-in hold to get the range up to speed. I’d already been up several hours, so I thought that would just be a good opportunity to get a little nap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] And you took one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I took a little nap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] Everybody was a little shocked. Obviously, it shows that you were relaxed and that you weren’t really worried about what was going to happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your primary responsibility during that mission? How would you define that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.480739392112761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I took a little nap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] Everybody was a little shocked. Obviously, it shows that you were relaxed and that you weren’t really worried about what was going to happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your primary responsibility during that mission? How would you define that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my primary responsibility was to really find out how all the modes of the spacecraft worked, show that we could really fly them; to get off the stable table and prove that I could come back with the attitude I wanted to recapture the stable table and put it on and off; and then to fly manually most of the rest of the mission. I had planned on getting a lot of pictures of various things. I had several things for visual. I had a little ball that I ejected, put out, to see what the dynamics of it would be as it got further and closer to the spacecraft on its own trajectory, and to see at what distance I could see the little flashing light that was on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe how that worked; in other words, the results?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.200821546791956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your primary responsibility during that mission? How would you define that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my primary responsibility was to really find out how all the modes of the spacecraft worked, show that we could really fly them; to get off the stable table and prove that I could come back with the attitude I wanted to recapture the stable table and put it on and off; and then to fly manually most of the rest of the mission. I had planned on getting a lot of pictures of various things. I had several things for visual. I had a little ball that I ejected, put out, to see what the dynamics of it would be as it got further and closer to the spacecraft on its own trajectory, and to see at what distance I could see the little flashing light that was on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe how that worked; in other words, the results?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The results were very good. I didn’t see it initially when I was supposed to be able to see it. And then I saw it a number of times the rest of the flight, at different times. So, we got some good data out of it on what distance you really could see a light in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far could you see it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.00091282976884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my primary responsibility was to really find out how all the modes of the spacecraft worked, show that we could really fly them; to get off the stable table and prove that I could come back with the attitude I wanted to recapture the stable table and put it on and off; and then to fly manually most of the rest of the mission. I had planned on getting a lot of pictures of various things. I had several things for visual. I had a little ball that I ejected, put out, to see what the dynamics of it would be as it got further and closer to the spacecraft on its own trajectory, and to see at what distance I could see the little flashing light that was on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe how that worked; in other words, the results?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The results were very good. I didn’t see it initially when I was supposed to be able to see it. And then I saw it a number of times the rest of the flight, at different times. So, we got some good data out of it on what distance you really could see a light in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far could you see it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, quite a few miles. And this was interesting because, theoretically, people didn’t really know what you would be able to see in space in vacuum; because, without air to transmit the objects, could you really visually see them any distance at all?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m surprised under weightlessness that your eye lenses wouldn’t give you all sorts of strange corrections."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.889903144187599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The results were very good. I didn’t see it initially when I was supposed to be able to see it. And then I saw it a number of times the rest of the flight, at different times. So, we got some good data out of it on what distance you really could see a light in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far could you see it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, quite a few miles. And this was interesting because, theoretically, people didn’t really know what you would be able to see in space in vacuum; because, without air to transmit the objects, could you really visually see them any distance at all?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m surprised under weightlessness that your eye lenses wouldn’t give you all sorts of strange corrections."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s one of the things that the medical thought might happen. As it turns out, it didn’t at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a matter of fact, observations on the body were said to have been one of the major reasons for what you were doing on that flight. NASA was still very anxious, particularly, because yours was the first fairly lengthy duration mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.877670160208444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, quite a few miles. And this was interesting because, theoretically, people didn’t really know what you would be able to see in space in vacuum; because, without air to transmit the objects, could you really visually see them any distance at all?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m surprised under weightlessness that your eye lenses wouldn’t give you all sorts of strange corrections."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s one of the things that the medical thought might happen. As it turns out, it didn’t at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a matter of fact, observations on the body were said to have been one of the major reasons for what you were doing on that flight. NASA was still very anxious, particularly, because yours was the first fairly lengthy duration mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there again, I was the first one to fly long enough to power down and go to sleep and see if you could sleep in space, and to medically observe an astronaut at sleep in space, and then wake up and get your senses back with you, and pick up and go ahead and do the job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any observations on going to sleep and then waking up that you could share with us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.752966844676049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s one of the things that the medical thought might happen. As it turns out, it didn’t at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a matter of fact, observations on the body were said to have been one of the major reasons for what you were doing on that flight. NASA was still very anxious, particularly, because yours was the first fairly lengthy duration mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there again, I was the first one to fly long enough to power down and go to sleep and see if you could sleep in space, and to medically observe an astronaut at sleep in space, and then wake up and get your senses back with you, and pick up and go ahead and do the job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any observations on going to sleep and then waking up that you could share with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time I was supposed to power down and go to sleep, I was just at that point in time I was coming up over the high steppes of India and coming in, and I realized I was coming right in to the first time we’d ever been able to fly in day-side daylight over the Himalayas. So, I was in a power-down mode, just on tweak pulse, and so I could do a lot of tweaking, and they wouldn’t even note any fuel being gone. So very quietly every time I came over the Himalayas for several orbits, I managed to get some good pictures of the Himalayas. And so they thought I was asleep all that time. And then, I had a fairly low heart rate anyway, and they really didn’t take into consideration how much lower you’d be in space, and then how much lower you’d be in space when you went to sleep. So when I came whistling over the horizon asleep, truly asleep, the first time, they woke me up just to see if I was okay. I guess my heart rate was really way down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you sneaked a peek at the Himalayas. [laughs]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.72551871630672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there again, I was the first one to fly long enough to power down and go to sleep and see if you could sleep in space, and to medically observe an astronaut at sleep in space, and then wake up and get your senses back with you, and pick up and go ahead and do the job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any observations on going to sleep and then waking up that you could share with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time I was supposed to power down and go to sleep, I was just at that point in time I was coming up over the high steppes of India and coming in, and I realized I was coming right in to the first time we’d ever been able to fly in day-side daylight over the Himalayas. So, I was in a power-down mode, just on tweak pulse, and so I could do a lot of tweaking, and they wouldn’t even note any fuel being gone. So very quietly every time I came over the Himalayas for several orbits, I managed to get some good pictures of the Himalayas. And so they thought I was asleep all that time. And then, I had a fairly low heart rate anyway, and they really didn’t take into consideration how much lower you’d be in space, and then how much lower you’d be in space when you went to sleep. So when I came whistling over the horizon asleep, truly asleep, the first time, they woke me up just to see if I was okay. I guess my heart rate was really way down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you sneaked a peek at the Himalayas. [laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any problems either with your personal comfort or with the spacecraft? Any real problems during the flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.806131907007467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time I was supposed to power down and go to sleep, I was just at that point in time I was coming up over the high steppes of India and coming in, and I realized I was coming right in to the first time we’d ever been able to fly in day-side daylight over the Himalayas. So, I was in a power-down mode, just on tweak pulse, and so I could do a lot of tweaking, and they wouldn’t even note any fuel being gone. So very quietly every time I came over the Himalayas for several orbits, I managed to get some good pictures of the Himalayas. And so they thought I was asleep all that time. And then, I had a fairly low heart rate anyway, and they really didn’t take into consideration how much lower you’d be in space, and then how much lower you’d be in space when you went to sleep. So when I came whistling over the horizon asleep, truly asleep, the first time, they woke me up just to see if I was okay. I guess my heart rate was really way down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you sneaked a peek at the Himalayas. [laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any problems either with your personal comfort or with the spacecraft? Any real problems during the flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really any real problems. We always had trouble keeping the temperature of the suit adjusted, because the valve was so sensitive that, when you went a little too far on it for cool¬ness, you’d tend to freeze it up. You’d have to back off and get it unfrozen and then—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It might be good to mention the fact that, in those days, you didn’t fly shirtsleeve."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.006813230008296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any problems either with your personal comfort or with the spacecraft? Any real problems during the flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really any real problems. We always had trouble keeping the temperature of the suit adjusted, because the valve was so sensitive that, when you went a little too far on it for cool¬ness, you’d tend to freeze it up. You’d have to back off and get it unfrozen and then—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It might be good to mention the fact that, in those days, you didn’t fly shirtsleeve."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Particularly in this day, because, in recent years, astronauts have flown in shirtsleeves. But in those days, you kept the suit on, didn’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.340903588898106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really any real problems. We always had trouble keeping the temperature of the suit adjusted, because the valve was so sensitive that, when you went a little too far on it for cool¬ness, you’d tend to freeze it up. You’d have to back off and get it unfrozen and then—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It might be good to mention the fact that, in those days, you didn’t fly shirtsleeve."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Particularly in this day, because, in recent years, astronauts have flown in shirtsleeves. But in those days, you kept the suit on, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kept the suit on the whole mission, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that true—That was true for Mercury; how about Gemini?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.489892876553451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Particularly in this day, because, in recent years, astronauts have flown in shirtsleeves. But in those days, you kept the suit on, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kept the suit on the whole mission, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that true—That was true for Mercury; how about Gemini?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Gemini, Pete [Charles C. Conrad, Jr.] and I tried to get approval to fly in just a regular flying suit on Gemini V, since we were not going to be doing EVA [Extravehicular Activity] and we thought we had developed enough relia¬bility in the pressurization system at that time we could be able to fly in a flying suit. But, NASA wouldn’t approve it. So, the first thing we go into orbit, the first thing that happened is our helmets and suits came off; and we were in our undies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was in Gemini."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.766547640614945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kept the suit on the whole mission, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that true—That was true for Mercury; how about Gemini?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Gemini, Pete [Charles C. Conrad, Jr.] and I tried to get approval to fly in just a regular flying suit on Gemini V, since we were not going to be doing EVA [Extravehicular Activity] and we thought we had developed enough relia¬bility in the pressurization system at that time we could be able to fly in a flying suit. But, NASA wouldn’t approve it. So, the first thing we go into orbit, the first thing that happened is our helmets and suits came off; and we were in our undies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was in Gemini."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, of course, in Mercury you kept the suit on and had the temperature problem. And, I noticed that, finally as you got ready to make your entry (or reentry, depending on which way you like it), a warning light came on."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.073941822905494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Gemini, Pete [Charles C. Conrad, Jr.] and I tried to get approval to fly in just a regular flying suit on Gemini V, since we were not going to be doing EVA [Extravehicular Activity] and we thought we had developed enough relia¬bility in the pressurization system at that time we could be able to fly in a flying suit. But, NASA wouldn’t approve it. So, the first thing we go into orbit, the first thing that happened is our helmets and suits came off; and we were in our undies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was in Gemini."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, of course, in Mercury you kept the suit on and had the temperature problem. And, I noticed that, finally as you got ready to make your entry (or reentry, depending on which way you like it), a warning light came on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just about the 19th orbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must’ve been a thrill."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.415490914339438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, of course, in Mercury you kept the suit on and had the temperature problem. And, I noticed that, finally as you got ready to make your entry (or reentry, depending on which way you like it), a warning light came on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just about the 19th orbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must’ve been a thrill."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. The .05 g green warning light came on, which is the light that tells you you’re starting to reenter. I was sure that I wasn’t reentering, because there had been nothing to slow down my speed at all. And, of course, as usually happened on these missions, we had long spaces that we were out of radio contact; and I was out of radio contact when this hap¬pened. So when I got in radio contact first time, the Cape was kind of concerned when they heard about this light on. Then we proceeded on the next orbit or so to try to analyze, go through various procedures to try to find what it was. And we realized I was, slowly but surely, having an electrical fire from my relays; and they did short out the inverters. So, eventually I lost my total electrical system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You lost the total electrical system?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.906101015932709, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just about the 19th orbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must’ve been a thrill."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. The .05 g green warning light came on, which is the light that tells you you’re starting to reenter. I was sure that I wasn’t reentering, because there had been nothing to slow down my speed at all. And, of course, as usually happened on these missions, we had long spaces that we were out of radio contact; and I was out of radio contact when this hap¬pened. So when I got in radio contact first time, the Cape was kind of concerned when they heard about this light on. Then we proceeded on the next orbit or so to try to analyze, go through various procedures to try to find what it was. And we realized I was, slowly but surely, having an electrical fire from my relays; and they did short out the inverters. So, eventually I lost my total electrical system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You lost the total electrical system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The total electrical system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain that in terms that I can understand? As a pilot, what does it mean when you’ve lost, literally lost—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.562334462147454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. The .05 g green warning light came on, which is the light that tells you you’re starting to reenter. I was sure that I wasn’t reentering, because there had been nothing to slow down my speed at all. And, of course, as usually happened on these missions, we had long spaces that we were out of radio contact; and I was out of radio contact when this hap¬pened. So when I got in radio contact first time, the Cape was kind of concerned when they heard about this light on. Then we proceeded on the next orbit or so to try to analyze, go through various procedures to try to find what it was. And we realized I was, slowly but surely, having an electrical fire from my relays; and they did short out the inverters. So, eventually I lost my total electrical system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You lost the total electrical system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The total electrical system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain that in terms that I can understand? As a pilot, what does it mean when you’ve lost, literally lost—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it meant that I had the manual push/pull rods to activate the jets for attitude control. I had eyeballs out the window for my attitude—my pitch, roll, and yaw attitude. I had a wrist¬watch for timing. And I had to activate each and every one of the relays, and I’d have to manually fire the retros while manually flying the spacecraft. So, everything had to be done manually. I’d have to control the spacecraft all the way through reentry. I’d have to put my drogue out manually. And I’d have to deploy my parachute manually. I’d have to deploy the landing bag manually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds to me like you just described why they needed test pilots to fly in the early days of the space program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.402593846830506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The total electrical system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain that in terms that I can understand? As a pilot, what does it mean when you’ve lost, literally lost—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it meant that I had the manual push/pull rods to activate the jets for attitude control. I had eyeballs out the window for my attitude—my pitch, roll, and yaw attitude. I had a wrist¬watch for timing. And I had to activate each and every one of the relays, and I’d have to manually fire the retros while manually flying the spacecraft. So, everything had to be done manually. I’d have to control the spacecraft all the way through reentry. I’d have to put my drogue out manually. And I’d have to deploy my parachute manually. I’d have to deploy the landing bag manually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds to me like you just described why they needed test pilots to fly in the early days of the space program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s true; and that’s really what we’d been wanting to do all along. So, it just gave me the opportunity to do what we’d been wanting to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How close to the landing target did you come?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.33621538536723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it meant that I had the manual push/pull rods to activate the jets for attitude control. I had eyeballs out the window for my attitude—my pitch, roll, and yaw attitude. I had a wrist¬watch for timing. And I had to activate each and every one of the relays, and I’d have to manually fire the retros while manually flying the spacecraft. So, everything had to be done manually. I’d have to control the spacecraft all the way through reentry. I’d have to put my drogue out manually. And I’d have to deploy my parachute manually. I’d have to deploy the landing bag manually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds to me like you just described why they needed test pilots to fly in the early days of the space program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s true; and that’s really what we’d been wanting to do all along. So, it just gave me the opportunity to do what we’d been wanting to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How close to the landing target did you come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was pretty lucky on that. I have a picture, looking right up the tower, the USS Kearsarge’s tower, the main chute is opening. So I was right over the carrier, and the wind drifted me about, roughly, two miles away. So they could just taxi over and put out a boon, and hoist me onboard; and I got out of the spacecraft right on the carrier then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Effectively, that pretty well rang down the curtain on Mercury, didn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.262461539296922, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s true; and that’s really what we’d been wanting to do all along. So, it just gave me the opportunity to do what we’d been wanting to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How close to the landing target did you come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was pretty lucky on that. I have a picture, looking right up the tower, the USS Kearsarge’s tower, the main chute is opening. So I was right over the carrier, and the wind drifted me about, roughly, two miles away. So they could just taxi over and put out a boon, and hoist me onboard; and I got out of the spacecraft right on the carrier then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Effectively, that pretty well rang down the curtain on Mercury, didn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were hoping to have another Mercury flight, but [there] was a little soul-searching about whether it would interfere with the upcoming Gemini mission. And by this time, then, we had been dedicated by the President [John F. Kennedy] that we were going to go to the Moon and go within that decade. Anything we could do to cut down time we needed to do. So, the last Mercury flight was eliminated in order to speed up getting into Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess that brings us to Gemini. What about the transition from Mercury to Gemini? In an engineering sense, what did you do, Gordo?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.291623932552135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was pretty lucky on that. I have a picture, looking right up the tower, the USS Kearsarge’s tower, the main chute is opening. So I was right over the carrier, and the wind drifted me about, roughly, two miles away. So they could just taxi over and put out a boon, and hoist me onboard; and I got out of the spacecraft right on the carrier then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Effectively, that pretty well rang down the curtain on Mercury, didn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were hoping to have another Mercury flight, but [there] was a little soul-searching about whether it would interfere with the upcoming Gemini mission. And by this time, then, we had been dedicated by the President [John F. Kennedy] that we were going to go to the Moon and go within that decade. Anything we could do to cut down time we needed to do. So, the last Mercury flight was eliminated in order to speed up getting into Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess that brings us to Gemini. What about the transition from Mercury to Gemini? In an engineering sense, what did you do, Gordo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Gemini was really just an enlarged Mercury. We made improvements on the Mercury. We went from a 1- to a 2-pilot crew so you could do more tasks. And we moved all of the systems out into an adapter section to get them out of the spacecraft. The noise level in Mercury was really quite high because of the inverters and the motors and all the things running right in the same shell you were in. So, in Gemini then, we moved all of these systems out into an adapter section. We needed more room, too, for putting in fuel cells and batteries and a propulsion system to be able to do a little bit of orbital maneuvering for rendezvous. So Gemini, then, was going to be the mission to really and truly test all the systems and get them all ironed out and tested and ready to go for the Apollo Program to do the lunar mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked on Gemini III before men actually flew in Gemini, didn’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.546248813946814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were hoping to have another Mercury flight, but [there] was a little soul-searching about whether it would interfere with the upcoming Gemini mission. And by this time, then, we had been dedicated by the President [John F. Kennedy] that we were going to go to the Moon and go within that decade. Anything we could do to cut down time we needed to do. So, the last Mercury flight was eliminated in order to speed up getting into Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess that brings us to Gemini. What about the transition from Mercury to Gemini? In an engineering sense, what did you do, Gordo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Gemini was really just an enlarged Mercury. We made improvements on the Mercury. We went from a 1- to a 2-pilot crew so you could do more tasks. And we moved all of the systems out into an adapter section to get them out of the spacecraft. The noise level in Mercury was really quite high because of the inverters and the motors and all the things running right in the same shell you were in. So, in Gemini then, we moved all of these systems out into an adapter section. We needed more room, too, for putting in fuel cells and batteries and a propulsion system to be able to do a little bit of orbital maneuvering for rendezvous. So Gemini, then, was going to be the mission to really and truly test all the systems and get them all ironed out and tested and ready to go for the Apollo Program to do the lunar mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked on Gemini III before men actually flew in Gemini, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do on that flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.051387571052015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Gemini was really just an enlarged Mercury. We made improvements on the Mercury. We went from a 1- to a 2-pilot crew so you could do more tasks. And we moved all of the systems out into an adapter section to get them out of the spacecraft. The noise level in Mercury was really quite high because of the inverters and the motors and all the things running right in the same shell you were in. So, in Gemini then, we moved all of these systems out into an adapter section. We needed more room, too, for putting in fuel cells and batteries and a propulsion system to be able to do a little bit of orbital maneuvering for rendezvous. So Gemini, then, was going to be the mission to really and truly test all the systems and get them all ironed out and tested and ready to go for the Apollo Program to do the lunar mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked on Gemini III before men actually flew in Gemini, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do on that flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn’t fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. I said you worked on it before men flew in Gemini."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 27.834875078946684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do on that flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn’t fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. I said you worked on it before men flew in Gemini."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On yeah. Well, there was a little bit of a transition, of course, in getting your systems going, getting the positioning of where you were going to locate things; how you’d take all the equipment they wanted you to take, because you really had less space per person than you did in Mercury; but, thankfully, it was a little more strategically arranged so that you had a little more usable room, really. And that was mainly because we had these storage lockers that were in back of you, and you could squirm round and take equipment in and out of those storage lockers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With Gemini IV, Mercury Control moved to Houston and became Mission Control. With Gemini V, you were ready to fly again. Tell me about your partner on that flight as you got ready for it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.292691907240979, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a little sight that we used for photography as well as for radar and all that type of thing that had a little lighted crosshair on it. The sight broke down, so we had a little tool kit on board. We took that all apart and repaired it, and got it operable again. We had a number of cameras that gave us some little minor problems that we repaired. We were losing our thrusters; they were clogging up and just spitting liquid instead of igniting; we’d lost approx¬imately half our thrusters, so we devised a scheme. We had a purge exit for hydrogen on one side of the fuel cell, hydrogen on one side, and a purge nozzle on the other side for oxygen; and then we had a urine dump on the bottom. So at the right time, we could purge hydrogen, purge oxygen, and dump urine. That gave us three more attitude thrusters. By really work¬ing diligently at it, even though we lost a lot of our attitude control, we could lumber along and finally get the attitude we had to, to do a lot of the experiments we wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds to me like you and your partner, Pete Conrad, made quite a team. Perhaps it might be a good idea to evaluate him as your right hand or your left hand, or the way in which the two of you made a pair of hands that solved problems."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We worked very well together. Pete’s a very, very go-getting type guy. He’s a—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fun-loving guy, too, isn’t he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he’s very capable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He likes to laugh."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.769657674712198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We worked very well together. Pete’s a very, very go-getting type guy. He’s a—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fun-loving guy, too, isn’t he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he’s very capable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He likes to laugh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he does. He’s got a lot of good humor. We had to have a good sense of humor about a lot of things, because it did get long and arduous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a matter of fact, you had to slow down just a bit because of your power limitations. That must’ve made life a little boring from time to time. Was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.41073074968022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he’s very capable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He likes to laugh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he does. He’s got a lot of good humor. We had to have a good sense of humor about a lot of things, because it did get long and arduous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a matter of fact, you had to slow down just a bit because of your power limitations. That must’ve made life a little boring from time to time. Was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it got a little boring not being able to do all the things we really had planned on doing. You know, a number of things; we were having to slow down when we did do them. Some of them we caught up on a little later when we got power back up. But others, we had to skip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the time came to enter, that’s where you picked up the pace. Not because of anything in space, but because of events down below. Do you remember that? I’m thinking of the fact that you had to accelerate your landing, because Hurricane Betsy was moving in to your planned landing area. So could you cover that base for us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.191113876573725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we sure grew a great beard. I had a better beard than Pete’s. [chuckles] We had a pretty good heavy beard. Surprisingly, I don’t think I was any [more tired] than I was after my Mercury flight. Of course, we could move around a little more and we also had learned we needed to exercise a bit, so we’d carried a bungee along with us which we daily got a little exercise with, pulling this bungee. I think, really, we felt we were in pretty good shape. In fact, we felt we’d kept such a neat spacecraft that we felt we were really pretty neat and trim and clean when we got off on the carrier. And only when you’d see people passing out alongside did you realize you really were a little odiferous from all the sweat of 8 days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] You know, that’s a factor that most people never think of. They think of space as being a wonderful place to be, and there’s never any negative side to it. Are there any neg¬ative factors to flying in space? Or is it all happiness and joy? Or is it what you look back on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think, you know, certainly there are some negative factors involved. You have to compromise a lot of things you do. Even in zero gravity, as much fun as it is, you have to learn how to use it properly; and even in something like Skylab, you had to learn to fasten yourself down, secure yourself down, in a position to do any work under zero gravity. So it has some adversities as well as advantages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After Gemini V, you never got a chance to fly again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I had the Gemini XII backup team, and I had the Apollo 10 backup team. And I headed up several things, such as Apollo Flight Operations for a while. I headed up Skylab prior to that; and then I headed up the Shuttle Operations input, design input."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, you never got the chance to fly again."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.87901541841525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think, you know, certainly there are some negative factors involved. You have to compromise a lot of things you do. Even in zero gravity, as much fun as it is, you have to learn how to use it properly; and even in something like Skylab, you had to learn to fasten yourself down, secure yourself down, in a position to do any work under zero gravity. So it has some adversities as well as advantages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After Gemini V, you never got a chance to fly again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I had the Gemini XII backup team, and I had the Apollo 10 backup team. And I headed up several things, such as Apollo Flight Operations for a while. I headed up Skylab prior to that; and then I headed up the Shuttle Operations input, design input."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, you never got the chance to fly again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never got a chance to fly again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any idea why that was? Or was it that there were many people beating on the door?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.754461576016944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I had the Gemini XII backup team, and I had the Apollo 10 backup team. And I headed up several things, such as Apollo Flight Operations for a while. I headed up Skylab prior to that; and then I headed up the Shuttle Operations input, design input."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, you never got the chance to fly again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never got a chance to fly again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any idea why that was? Or was it that there were many people beating on the door?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I have some ideas. But who knows why, what all is involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right after the Gemini mission, you went on an around-the-world tour, didn’t you, you and Pete?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 20.838290640018826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never got a chance to fly again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any idea why that was? Or was it that there were many people beating on the door?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I have some ideas. But who knows why, what all is involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right after the Gemini mission, you went on an around-the-world tour, didn’t you, you and Pete?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember anything about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.835681511993332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Leonov eventually wound up being commander during Apollo-Soyuz."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alexei. How about Belyayev?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Belyayev died about 3 years later of pneumonia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at least it was a beginning of working relationships, astronauts and cosmonauts."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.372979457770368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alexei. How about Belyayev?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Belyayev died about 3 years later of pneumonia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at least it was a beginning of working relationships, astronauts and cosmonauts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Following that, some time after that then, General [Georgy T.] Beregovoy and Kalapistov brought their families and came over to the States; I gave them a two-month tour of the United States, in fact. And I think that was the beginning of the end of communism in Russia; because when they went home, they were very free to tell all of their friends about what advantages Americans really have, even the lower-echelon Americans have, compared to what they have in Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was two months. Where did you take them in the United States?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.858866064189298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Belyayev died about 3 years later of pneumonia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at least it was a beginning of working relationships, astronauts and cosmonauts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Following that, some time after that then, General [Georgy T.] Beregovoy and Kalapistov brought their families and came over to the States; I gave them a two-month tour of the United States, in fact. And I think that was the beginning of the end of communism in Russia; because when they went home, they were very free to tell all of their friends about what advantages Americans really have, even the lower-echelon Americans have, compared to what they have in Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was two months. Where did you take them in the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All over. We hit everywhere, including the Great Canyon. They had a ball, and we did, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Supermarkets, that kind of thing, figure largely in it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1765178490992203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Following that, some time after that then, General [Georgy T.] Beregovoy and Kalapistov brought their families and came over to the States; I gave them a two-month tour of the United States, in fact. And I think that was the beginning of the end of communism in Russia; because when they went home, they were very free to tell all of their friends about what advantages Americans really have, even the lower-echelon Americans have, compared to what they have in Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was two months. Where did you take them in the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All over. We hit everywhere, including the Great Canyon. They had a ball, and we did, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Supermarkets, that kind of thing, figure largely in it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. We went to General Motors in Detroit and they were given a big, formal briefing; and I got off and called [one] of my friends, who [was] very high-echelon in General Motors, and said, “These guys really would like to see some experimental automobiles.” With that, he came up and said, “Enough of all this formalized stuff. Let’s take them down and put them in some automobiles.” And they turned them loose on the streets of Detroit in these new, experimental automobiles; and they loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This brings to mind the fact that you always had a more-than-passing interest in things auto¬motive as well as things astronautical. Have you ever maintained that interest in racing cars?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4183531656658004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All over. We hit everywhere, including the Great Canyon. They had a ball, and we did, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Supermarkets, that kind of thing, figure largely in it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. We went to General Motors in Detroit and they were given a big, formal briefing; and I got off and called [one] of my friends, who [was] very high-echelon in General Motors, and said, “These guys really would like to see some experimental automobiles.” With that, he came up and said, “Enough of all this formalized stuff. Let’s take them down and put them in some automobiles.” And they turned them loose on the streets of Detroit in these new, experimental automobiles; and they loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This brings to mind the fact that you always had a more-than-passing interest in things auto¬motive as well as things astronautical. Have you ever maintained that interest in racing cars?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. I’m still interested in them. I haven’t really actively raced any of them the last few years, but I’m still very interested; and I still work on developing engines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even when you were in the program, I remember you and Gus Grissom worked on things like high-performance aircraft, spacecraft, boats, the whole thing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6870590729620005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. We went to General Motors in Detroit and they were given a big, formal briefing; and I got off and called [one] of my friends, who [was] very high-echelon in General Motors, and said, “These guys really would like to see some experimental automobiles.” With that, he came up and said, “Enough of all this formalized stuff. Let’s take them down and put them in some automobiles.” And they turned them loose on the streets of Detroit in these new, experimental automobiles; and they loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This brings to mind the fact that you always had a more-than-passing interest in things auto¬motive as well as things astronautical. Have you ever maintained that interest in racing cars?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. I’m still interested in them. I haven’t really actively raced any of them the last few years, but I’m still very interested; and I still work on developing engines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even when you were in the program, I remember you and Gus Grissom worked on things like high-performance aircraft, spacecraft, boats, the whole thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boats, airplanes, cars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You name it, you were into it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9856211921800004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. I’m still interested in them. I haven’t really actively raced any of them the last few years, but I’m still very interested; and I still work on developing engines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even when you were in the program, I remember you and Gus Grissom worked on things like high-performance aircraft, spacecraft, boats, the whole thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boats, airplanes, cars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You name it, you were into it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what an engineer does for a hobby?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.3173568802000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boats, airplanes, cars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You name it, you were into it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what an engineer does for a hobby?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] As well as a living. Well now that John Glenn’s elected to fly in space again, I wonder: Would you like to go up again?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5748409780000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what an engineer does for a hobby?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] As well as a living. Well now that John Glenn’s elected to fly in space again, I wonder: Would you like to go up again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, and I particularly want to go on the Mars mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any chance that you would make it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.8609344200000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[laughs] As well as a living. Well now that John Glenn’s elected to fly in space again, I wonder: Would you like to go up again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, and I particularly want to go on the Mars mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any chance that you would make it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would hope so. I would certainly be very happy to do so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to give you a shot at something here, too, that was specifically asked of us, you and me. Because, when John flies, NASA’s figuring that they just might like to have a few applicable quotes from people like yourself who know John well, and get reactions from you, and others, about what you really think of John’s flying again."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9565938000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, and I particularly want to go on the Mars mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any chance that you would make it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would hope so. I would certainly be very happy to do so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to give you a shot at something here, too, that was specifically asked of us, you and me. Because, when John flies, NASA’s figuring that they just might like to have a few applicable quotes from people like yourself who know John well, and get reactions from you, and others, about what you really think of John’s flying again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it’s great. I’m glad to see it, because John will do a good job for them. And here’s a will-be 77-year-old body that they have had great medical data for 40-some-odd years on. It’ll be a good database. I think it really will gain a lot of medical knowledge about what aging does to the cardiovascular system. Does it hurt it, or doesn’t it hurt it? I think that will be very valuable information. And John will do a good job for them on the mission. I think also NASA can certainly [be] helped with a little good public relations, and I think John will really help them on that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think it will be a high-visibility mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0628820000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would hope so. I would certainly be very happy to do so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to give you a shot at something here, too, that was specifically asked of us, you and me. Because, when John flies, NASA’s figuring that they just might like to have a few applicable quotes from people like yourself who know John well, and get reactions from you, and others, about what you really think of John’s flying again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it’s great. I’m glad to see it, because John will do a good job for them. And here’s a will-be 77-year-old body that they have had great medical data for 40-some-odd years on. It’ll be a good database. I think it really will gain a lot of medical knowledge about what aging does to the cardiovascular system. Does it hurt it, or doesn’t it hurt it? I think that will be very valuable information. And John will do a good job for them on the mission. I think also NASA can certainly [be] helped with a little good public relations, and I think John will really help them on that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think it will be a high-visibility mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, it would be if you were to fly it, too, Gordon."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1809800000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it’s great. I’m glad to see it, because John will do a good job for them. And here’s a will-be 77-year-old body that they have had great medical data for 40-some-odd years on. It’ll be a good database. I think it really will gain a lot of medical knowledge about what aging does to the cardiovascular system. Does it hurt it, or doesn’t it hurt it? I think that will be very valuable information. And John will do a good job for them on the mission. I think also NASA can certainly [be] helped with a little good public relations, and I think John will really help them on that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think it will be a high-visibility mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, it would be if you were to fly it, too, Gordon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to be his backup?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3122000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, it would be if you were to fly it, too, Gordon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to be his backup?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, possibly, yeah. I would enjoy taking the flight. But as I say, if I had my preference, I’d really like to be on a Mars mission because I strongly feel that we are way, way overdue getting back to the Moon and getting a manned mission to Mars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From all indications, if there ever is a Mars mission, it’s going to be quite some time down¬stream. Do you think that, perhaps, your age might defeat that goal?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4580000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to be his backup?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, possibly, yeah. I would enjoy taking the flight. But as I say, if I had my preference, I’d really like to be on a Mars mission because I strongly feel that we are way, way overdue getting back to the Moon and getting a manned mission to Mars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From all indications, if there ever is a Mars mission, it’s going to be quite some time down¬stream. Do you think that, perhaps, your age might defeat that goal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, possibly. I would hope not, but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have a lot of good years left, but how many will it take before we go to Mars, do you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, possibly, yeah. I would enjoy taking the flight. But as I say, if I had my preference, I’d really like to be on a Mars mission because I strongly feel that we are way, way overdue getting back to the Moon and getting a manned mission to Mars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From all indications, if there ever is a Mars mission, it’s going to be quite some time down¬stream. Do you think that, perhaps, your age might defeat that goal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, possibly. I would hope not, but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have a lot of good years left, but how many will it take before we go to Mars, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s the thing that worries me. I think we’ve been way too many years already going to Mars. We should long ago have been there with a manned mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think the same thing about going back to the Moon, don’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, possibly. I would hope not, but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have a lot of good years left, but how many will it take before we go to Mars, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s the thing that worries me. I think we’ve been way too many years already going to Mars. We should long ago have been there with a manned mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think the same thing about going back to the Moon, don’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even the Space Station, what are your impressions of the Space Station?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00115:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s the thing that worries me. I think we’ve been way too many years already going to Mars. We should long ago have been there with a manned mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think the same thing about going back to the Moon, don’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even the Space Station, what are your impressions of the Space Station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the Space Station is one of the things—What’s going to cause it to be so valuable is it’s going to cause a large number of nations to start working together in space. And if we can do cooperative ventures in space, we can do a lot more; we can afford to do a lot more in space. I think this will be a great testing-ground for getting a number of countries really to working together. Of course, scientifically, we’ll get a lot out of the Space Station. I think it will be very worthwhile from a scientific point of view. But, I think the thing that’s going to interest people in the real, real nuts-and-bolts of really finding out what is out in space is when we go back to the Moon, and when we get out to Mars, and when we go mine the aste¬roids, and do a few things like that. Incidentally, there are some commercial groups that are starting out now that I think, before very long, we’re going to see them launching to mine the [asteroids], because it is a very lucrative venture. If it can’t be done under NASA, well, let’s do it commercially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, Gordon, I’ve asked an awful lot of questions. It could be that I’ve failed to ask one that you particularly would like to have had me ask. If so, right now’s the time to cover anything that your heart desires. Is there something that you’d like to bring up for posterity, dealing with the space program—past, present, or future?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 23.27449402117628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rural public health and nutrition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rural public health and nutrition project. Reid was also a trainer for groups going to India from '69 to '70. Start by telling me about yourself now. What your career is like, what your family's like, what your residence and your interests are?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. Right now, I am an organizational development trainer, executive coach, that works with anybody in organizations who need to improve their performance. And I work with nonprofits and international organizations and multinational industries. I've worked for the UN, for the IMF, for USAID, and have worked in Ethiopia, Kenya, Pakistan, India, Aruba. Uh. And throughout Europe, in the United States. And live in Santa Barbara with my partner, Peter Wright. We've been together 25 years and I just last summer returned from my 35th Peace Corps reunion. Not the 35th, 35th anniversary, not our 35th reunion. It was like our second or third reunion so, in Tahoe, which, and all but three people in our group attended. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful, wonderful. Okay. Anything else you want to say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll get back to that as we go. Let's go back now to the year before you joined the Peace Corps and talk about your life then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.123904924822865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, interestingly enough, when I went to training, even though I had a year of Hindi, they put me in half of our group that was going to Kerala, that speaks Malayalam and which really ticked me off. And I went in to the, the training officer, and I asked in a very passive aggressive sort of way, what criteria did you use to assign us to whether we were going to a Malayalam group or a Hindi speaking group? And they said, oh, well, we considered your background. When it was very apparent that they did every other one in the alphabet in the list. And so I said, well that's very interesting. I speak Hindi and you put me in the Malayalam group and they said, oh yes, you do? You didn't put that on your application. I said, oh yes I did. Many, many, many, many times. And so the woman interviewed me, started speaking Hindi to me, and I started speaking Hindi to her back. And she said, well, we really can't make that change unless you can talk somebody else in the other group into switching with you. And I said, well, if I can't talk anybody, then I'm leaving this training because I spent a year of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Getting ready."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting ready for this and I don't want that to go down the tubes. So luckily enough, I went in and a woman, a wonderful woman named Kathleen Sperry switched. Uh, no. A guy named George Thompson switched places, which started. A couple of other people said, well, if he can switch, then I can switch. So we, several of us switched and that seemed okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It turned out to be okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Turned out okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back a little bit before that to the point of why you wanted to join the Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.471005472025405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting ready for this and I don't want that to go down the tubes. So luckily enough, I went in and a woman, a wonderful woman named Kathleen Sperry switched. Uh, no. A guy named George Thompson switched places, which started. A couple of other people said, well, if he can switch, then I can switch. So we, several of us switched and that seemed okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It turned out to be okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Turned out okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back a little bit before that to the point of why you wanted to join the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted, I wanted to join the Peace Corps because I didn't know what the heck I was going to do with my life. I was, I thought I wanted to be a physician, but I wasn't really too sure. And I was really tired of school. And I just could not seem to want to go off into, uh, into graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were also internationally interested with your dad's travels?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.967783857806007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Turned out okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back a little bit before that to the point of why you wanted to join the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted, I wanted to join the Peace Corps because I didn't know what the heck I was going to do with my life. I was, I thought I wanted to be a physician, but I wasn't really too sure. And I was really tired of school. And I just could not seem to want to go off into, uh, into graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were also internationally interested with your dad's travels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my dad had been a technical guy for an oil exploration company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ready for adventure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.408648730895562, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted, I wanted to join the Peace Corps because I didn't know what the heck I was going to do with my life. I was, I thought I wanted to be a physician, but I wasn't really too sure. And I was really tired of school. And I just could not seem to want to go off into, uh, into graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were also internationally interested with your dad's travels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my dad had been a technical guy for an oil exploration company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ready for adventure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he would. He went off to Egypt and Ethiopia and Venezuela and would bring back, you know, spears and camel bells and fezs and all of that sort of stuff. So I had a great show and tell in kindergarten with camel bells and fezs and stuff like that. So. And that was basically the reason."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Wonderful. Anything else around that time? What your friends and family thought?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.898498589883959, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my dad had been a technical guy for an oil exploration company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ready for adventure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he would. He went off to Egypt and Ethiopia and Venezuela and would bring back, you know, spears and camel bells and fezs and all of that sort of stuff. So I had a great show and tell in kindergarten with camel bells and fezs and stuff like that. So. And that was basically the reason."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Wonderful. Anything else around that time? What your friends and family thought?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I had to, let's see. My, my, I. A lot of my friends, my high school friends all thought I was crazy because they were all intellectuals and were going to go off into graduate school immediately. And I felt a little bit of resentment because I thought, oh well, I'm going to come back and be two years behind them in that achievement mode. And of course, in the long run, that didn't matter at all. And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.442776210982176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he would. He went off to Egypt and Ethiopia and Venezuela and would bring back, you know, spears and camel bells and fezs and all of that sort of stuff. So I had a great show and tell in kindergarten with camel bells and fezs and stuff like that. So. And that was basically the reason."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Wonderful. Anything else around that time? What your friends and family thought?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I had to, let's see. My, my, I. A lot of my friends, my high school friends all thought I was crazy because they were all intellectuals and were going to go off into graduate school immediately. And I felt a little bit of resentment because I thought, oh well, I'm going to come back and be two years behind them in that achievement mode. And of course, in the long run, that didn't matter at all. And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My parents knew that I had to do what I had to do. My mother did. I did prepare, uh, start preparing my parents like a year beforehand. You know, announcing that I was going to go into the Peace Corps and that I was taking the exam and just to give them time, especially my mother time, to adjust to it all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a little bit of hesitancy on her part."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.936418012202417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I had to, let's see. My, my, I. A lot of my friends, my high school friends all thought I was crazy because they were all intellectuals and were going to go off into graduate school immediately. And I felt a little bit of resentment because I thought, oh well, I'm going to come back and be two years behind them in that achievement mode. And of course, in the long run, that didn't matter at all. And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My parents knew that I had to do what I had to do. My mother did. I did prepare, uh, start preparing my parents like a year beforehand. You know, announcing that I was going to go into the Peace Corps and that I was taking the exam and just to give them time, especially my mother time, to adjust to it all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a little bit of hesitancy on her part."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And then, of course, I went to India and she said, well, you know, it's exactly 12 hours away from Central Standard Time. You couldn't get any further away from us than you. That was, that was her comment. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so before you go to India, talk about the training. You were in this rural health program."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.807157767081502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and we trained at the University of Wisconsin in Milwaukee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And our, the head of our training group was Roger Wangsness. And, um, you know, it was, it was, uh, it was very, very interesting. It was, it turned out to be very cold. They sent us up to an Indian reservation in northern Wisconsin to live in tents for two weeks, I guess to just toughen us up so that we could. Because we were going to live in some pretty rough conditions and we had to go through that. And we had to have our little project and what have you. And I ended up, my big project was helping clean up and fix a chicken coop on the Indian reservation so that they could get more chickens in. And also to, a couple of us laid a concrete platform around a well, a pump well. The well had been, was in pretty bad shape and was always muddy. And so we laid a concrete platform around it. That was my big, and we you know, you played the game. You knew, you knew, you knew what you had to do to get selected. So you did.\n\nAnd of course, I was really. My biggest fear in not being selected was, was the physical aspect of it. And then like one week or two weeks into training, I ended up getting a terrible, terrible stone bruise on my heel and could not walk with, except with a cane. So that ruled out running any laps. So I didn't know what to do. And I thought they were going, they were going to think I was malingering. And since I was a water safety instructor and there were some people there that could not swim, I said, okay, what I'll do is I'll just teach these people to swim in our group. And so I became."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There always a, you had a solution."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I became the, I became a swimming instructor for two or three people that were really fearful of the water and needed special help. And so I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't have anybody else to do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.811305885285805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I became the, I became a swimming instructor for two or three people that were really fearful of the water and needed special help. And so I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't have anybody else to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were other instructors, but they were all, you know, keeping people swimming laps and stuff like that. And, and, uh. Of course we had to go through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I figured I was going to get, people were, they were going to judge, say bad things about me in the deselection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've said that word several times now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.409019611463957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I figured I was going to get, people were, they were going to judge, say bad things about me in the deselection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've said that word several times now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What, the?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The deselection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Well, it was a very nasty thing in, in our group, the way they were doing it. They would, they would come in and they would divide. They would give people envelopes to go from one room, to go to one room or the other. And the people that didn't show up in the room were sent back to the dormitories to pack and to leave before we were let out of the room. And so we really didn't even get a chance to say goodbye. Or if we did, they came in and said goodbye and then left. It was really Machiavellian. It was really not a nice way to put an end to that kind of relationship. So everybody had great fear and I. Intellectually, you know, killing the chickens and building the chicken houses and, uh, you know, I'd studied South Asian culture in anthropology, so I, there was no problem with any of that. And I had a, I was the top language, needless to say, the top language student in Hindi because I'd already had a year of Hindi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many were you in your group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.23224401273773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What, the?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The deselection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Well, it was a very nasty thing in, in our group, the way they were doing it. They would, they would come in and they would divide. They would give people envelopes to go from one room, to go to one room or the other. And the people that didn't show up in the room were sent back to the dormitories to pack and to leave before we were let out of the room. And so we really didn't even get a chance to say goodbye. Or if we did, they came in and said goodbye and then left. It was really Machiavellian. It was really not a nice way to put an end to that kind of relationship. So everybody had great fear and I. Intellectually, you know, killing the chickens and building the chicken houses and, uh, you know, I'd studied South Asian culture in anthropology, so I, there was no problem with any of that. And I had a, I was the top language, needless to say, the top language student in Hindi because I'd already had a year of Hindi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many were you in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, 30. India 20A was like 35, something like that. I can't remember the exact number. There was another whole half of our group that we never even met. It was called 20B, and they went to different states and, but they were also rural public health and nutrition, and trained at different places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't know them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.25804890304192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Well, it was a very nasty thing in, in our group, the way they were doing it. They would, they would come in and they would divide. They would give people envelopes to go from one room, to go to one room or the other. And the people that didn't show up in the room were sent back to the dormitories to pack and to leave before we were let out of the room. And so we really didn't even get a chance to say goodbye. Or if we did, they came in and said goodbye and then left. It was really Machiavellian. It was really not a nice way to put an end to that kind of relationship. So everybody had great fear and I. Intellectually, you know, killing the chickens and building the chicken houses and, uh, you know, I'd studied South Asian culture in anthropology, so I, there was no problem with any of that. And I had a, I was the top language, needless to say, the top language student in Hindi because I'd already had a year of Hindi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many were you in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, 30. India 20A was like 35, something like that. I can't remember the exact number. There was another whole half of our group that we never even met. It was called 20B, and they went to different states and, but they were also rural public health and nutrition, and trained at different places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't know them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we met them over in India. If we ran into them, it was no big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your group is 35."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.508943225602135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, 30. India 20A was like 35, something like that. I can't remember the exact number. There was another whole half of our group that we never even met. It was called 20B, and they went to different states and, but they were also rural public health and nutrition, and trained at different places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't know them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we met them over in India. If we ran into them, it was no big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your group is 35."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, around that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any married couples or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.787714695113483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we met them over in India. If we ran into them, it was no big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your group is 35."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, around that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any married couples or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No married couples in it, though currently I think there are like six married couples out of it. One couple got married during Peace Corps and then three or four years after Peace Corps, they got divorced. But then out of that, out of the remaining, everybody, five or six couples from the, uh, from the group got married afterwards and they're all together still. So and I was, and my roommate got married. My Peace Corps roommate got married, oh, three or four months after he got back with a woman who was in the Peace Corps. And I was best man in his wedding. And, you know, it had, all the women wore saris and the men, we had tuxes, but it was an Indian themed wedding so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else around that? The project you were invited into, how you prepared yourself to go, and move away from your life for two years and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.87523855012609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, around that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any married couples or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No married couples in it, though currently I think there are like six married couples out of it. One couple got married during Peace Corps and then three or four years after Peace Corps, they got divorced. But then out of that, out of the remaining, everybody, five or six couples from the, uh, from the group got married afterwards and they're all together still. So and I was, and my roommate got married. My Peace Corps roommate got married, oh, three or four months after he got back with a woman who was in the Peace Corps. And I was best man in his wedding. And, you know, it had, all the women wore saris and the men, we had tuxes, but it was an Indian themed wedding so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else around that? The project you were invited into, how you prepared yourself to go, and move away from your life for two years and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I remember going back and preparing before we. We were allowed to go home for two weeks or something like that, or a week before we left. And that happened to be around Thanksgiving. So we had a nice Thanksgiving. And I remember my dad, uh, buying me a leather satchel so that I could travel with it and keep my radio, because we bought a Zenith shortwave radio. I need to have, needed to have the radio. And we were told, of course, things to take and not to take at that time. And I went out and actually bought a whole bunch of warfarin, which is rat poison, because, you know, going to poison all the rats. And, you know, I think we didn't even use it or we did. I donated it to the ag college or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you thought you would need it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.1947095001401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No married couples in it, though currently I think there are like six married couples out of it. One couple got married during Peace Corps and then three or four years after Peace Corps, they got divorced. But then out of that, out of the remaining, everybody, five or six couples from the, uh, from the group got married afterwards and they're all together still. So and I was, and my roommate got married. My Peace Corps roommate got married, oh, three or four months after he got back with a woman who was in the Peace Corps. And I was best man in his wedding. And, you know, it had, all the women wore saris and the men, we had tuxes, but it was an Indian themed wedding so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else around that? The project you were invited into, how you prepared yourself to go, and move away from your life for two years and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I remember going back and preparing before we. We were allowed to go home for two weeks or something like that, or a week before we left. And that happened to be around Thanksgiving. So we had a nice Thanksgiving. And I remember my dad, uh, buying me a leather satchel so that I could travel with it and keep my radio, because we bought a Zenith shortwave radio. I need to have, needed to have the radio. And we were told, of course, things to take and not to take at that time. And I went out and actually bought a whole bunch of warfarin, which is rat poison, because, you know, going to poison all the rats. And, you know, I think we didn't even use it or we did. I donated it to the ag college or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you thought you would need it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were told, you know, I mean, not to take it, but this is on the list of things that you might want to take. And of course, you know, toilet paper, deodorant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take 100,000 rolls of toilet paper?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.549677222377888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I remember going back and preparing before we. We were allowed to go home for two weeks or something like that, or a week before we left. And that happened to be around Thanksgiving. So we had a nice Thanksgiving. And I remember my dad, uh, buying me a leather satchel so that I could travel with it and keep my radio, because we bought a Zenith shortwave radio. I need to have, needed to have the radio. And we were told, of course, things to take and not to take at that time. And I went out and actually bought a whole bunch of warfarin, which is rat poison, because, you know, going to poison all the rats. And, you know, I think we didn't even use it or we did. I donated it to the ag college or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you thought you would need it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were told, you know, I mean, not to take it, but this is on the list of things that you might want to take. And of course, you know, toilet paper, deodorant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take 100,000 rolls of toilet paper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took. Anything in my trunk that we, you know, we were all allowed a trunk to take over. I would compress it all and take up all the extra space in the trunk, that sort of thing. I wasn't overly concerned. And then I took two Sears catalogs, because that's what my great aunt and uncle used to use in their outhouses out on the farm, old Monkey Ward or Sears catalogs for toilet paper. And so I took."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two of those.\n\nTwo of those, or maybe it was one of those and a, and a, um, a telephone book.\n\nOkay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 25.055196913753207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were told, you know, I mean, not to take it, but this is on the list of things that you might want to take. And of course, you know, toilet paper, deodorant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take 100,000 rolls of toilet paper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took. Anything in my trunk that we, you know, we were all allowed a trunk to take over. I would compress it all and take up all the extra space in the trunk, that sort of thing. I wasn't overly concerned. And then I took two Sears catalogs, because that's what my great aunt and uncle used to use in their outhouses out on the farm, old Monkey Ward or Sears catalogs for toilet paper. And so I took."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two of those.\n\nTwo of those, or maybe it was one of those and a, and a, um, a telephone book.\n\nOkay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never had to use them, though. And I ended up giving them to the people that that wrapped the betel nut, the pond. And so for many years, I'm sure people got their pond wrapped up. Yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so let's go into the entry, when you got to India, just the, um?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.903210746588776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just I remember some of the, some of the surprises there. One that they served hot milk on cereal. So you order a bowl of corn flakes and they'd pour hot milk on it rather than cold milk. And that was, you know, hot milk so that you don't get TB from unpasteurized milk, of course. And I remember walking out to a little roadside, roadside post office to get some, um, air grams to write back home to start that process. And so I spoke to him in Hindi and he answered in English and I was deflated, of course. Like, oh damn, well, I can't pass yet. I thought it was wonderful. I got a big, big. It was, first I was in a bit of a snit and then I started laughing about it because it was like, come on, Reid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were trying and he was trying too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So it was, it was funny. It was really funny. And then we went off to, uh, after a couple of days of orientation, I don't really remember too much of that, except that we had, I had my picture in the paper listening to the Secretary or the equivalent, the Minister for Health and Family Planning or something like that. So my picture's been in the, in the New Delhi Statesman. My picture was also in the paper in Milwaukee. And in fact, I ended up getting my picture in the paper because of the Peace Corps for a lot of reasons, back when I trained and my picture was in the paper and the San Diego Union five years later. So it was, you know, all Peace Corps related."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure. And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So first impressions?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.225789718431974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So it was, it was funny. It was really funny. And then we went off to, uh, after a couple of days of orientation, I don't really remember too much of that, except that we had, I had my picture in the paper listening to the Secretary or the equivalent, the Minister for Health and Family Planning or something like that. So my picture's been in the, in the New Delhi Statesman. My picture was also in the paper in Milwaukee. And in fact, I ended up getting my picture in the paper because of the Peace Corps for a lot of reasons, back when I trained and my picture was in the paper and the San Diego Union five years later. So it was, you know, all Peace Corps related."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure. And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So first impressions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my first, you know, all the smells, the colors, the noise, the freneticism. And I had been so steeped in culture that I just did my absolute very best to fit in. Um. The other surprise that I had at the, at the, at the hotel was that I bought some pants and, two pair of wash and wear pants, and had not tried them on and put them in the, uh, my luggage. And then I got up that morning to put them on and they were like four inches. I'd gotten the wrong size. So the waist was four inches too short. I couldn't get them on. Needless did I know that three months later those very same pair of pants would be hanging off of me because I lost so much weight. But, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why did you lose weight?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.361988576035527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure. And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So first impressions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my first, you know, all the smells, the colors, the noise, the freneticism. And I had been so steeped in culture that I just did my absolute very best to fit in. Um. The other surprise that I had at the, at the, at the hotel was that I bought some pants and, two pair of wash and wear pants, and had not tried them on and put them in the, uh, my luggage. And then I got up that morning to put them on and they were like four inches. I'd gotten the wrong size. So the waist was four inches too short. I couldn't get them on. Needless did I know that three months later those very same pair of pants would be hanging off of me because I lost so much weight. But, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why did you lose weight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very sick. I, uh, in the first three months I probably got, well, I know I got bacillary dysentery. I was diagnosed with dengue fever at about the same time, and that was probably the first time I got amoeba. So I lost from about 180 down to 139 in three months, being sick and eating all that I could. And of course, we were there during the last two years of a three year drought. And so food was not really plentiful in our, in our village. But, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that affect your ability to work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.624431751150585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my first, you know, all the smells, the colors, the noise, the freneticism. And I had been so steeped in culture that I just did my absolute very best to fit in. Um. The other surprise that I had at the, at the, at the hotel was that I bought some pants and, two pair of wash and wear pants, and had not tried them on and put them in the, uh, my luggage. And then I got up that morning to put them on and they were like four inches. I'd gotten the wrong size. So the waist was four inches too short. I couldn't get them on. Needless did I know that three months later those very same pair of pants would be hanging off of me because I lost so much weight. But, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why did you lose weight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very sick. I, uh, in the first three months I probably got, well, I know I got bacillary dysentery. I was diagnosed with dengue fever at about the same time, and that was probably the first time I got amoeba. So I lost from about 180 down to 139 in three months, being sick and eating all that I could. And of course, we were there during the last two years of a three year drought. And so food was not really plentiful in our, in our village. But, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that affect your ability to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, you know, I don't think it affected me at all. I was just like, it was, it was part of, it was part of the whole, uh, adventure. And luckily enough, we were allowed to have a cook in India because if we didn't have a cook, we'd be spending all of our time going to the market and trying to get food and what have you. So that helped an awful lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got better?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.027146390167315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very sick. I, uh, in the first three months I probably got, well, I know I got bacillary dysentery. I was diagnosed with dengue fever at about the same time, and that was probably the first time I got amoeba. So I lost from about 180 down to 139 in three months, being sick and eating all that I could. And of course, we were there during the last two years of a three year drought. And so food was not really plentiful in our, in our village. But, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that affect your ability to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, you know, I don't think it affected me at all. I was just like, it was, it was part of, it was part of the whole, uh, adventure. And luckily enough, we were allowed to have a cook in India because if we didn't have a cook, we'd be spending all of our time going to the market and trying to get food and what have you. So that helped an awful lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got better?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. But I, but I, I had health problems the whole time I was in India, especially with amoeba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any others or was it just you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.317464679218908, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. But I, but I, I had health problems the whole time I was in India, especially with amoeba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any others or was it just you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them did. My roommate didn't. My roommate didn't. He lost a huge amount of weight, but he was never really sick and he was constantly constipated. And I constantly was the other way around. So I ended up using his toilet paper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rather than."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, okay. So now you were in New Delhi, you said, in the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.24162742135434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them did. My roommate didn't. My roommate didn't. He lost a huge amount of weight, but he was never really sick and he was constantly constipated. And I constantly was the other way around. So I ended up using his toilet paper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rather than."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, okay. So now you were in New Delhi, you said, in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then we, and then we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the specific assignment, what was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.9351415792826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, okay. So now you were in New Delhi, you said, in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then we, and then we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the specific assignment, what was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we drove, we were taken by train down to a place called Jabalpur, the biggest city near my village. And then we were taken into the, uh, we met the, our, the district health official, the assistant civil surgeon. Her name was Madame Lele, L-E-L-E. And she had us go out and buy whatever we were supposed to need for our kitchen and that sort of thing. And of course, we made all the wrong decisions, but you know. They said, oh, you buy, she said buy plastic plates because you'll break the others. And so we bought plastic plates and the plastic in India disintegrated in three months. And so we went out and bought real plates and that worked fine.\n\nBut I remember going into the village and we were driven into the village probably about 11:00 at night. And all you could see were the kerosene Petromax lanterns, because there was no electricity in the village, and it was a medieval looking village. And we went to the health center where waiting for us was our, the physician who was to be our supervisor and a whole bunch of people there to welcome us. And, um, that was really a kind of a shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many were there of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.14148364784993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just two, just, just the two of us. Right. And Tom Peterson was his name. And then taken over to this room that was in part of the gram panchayat. That's G-R-A-M P-A-N-C-H-A-Y-A-T. It's the village council building. They'd taken a room out of it to, for us to live in. And it was very, very small and very, very public. I mean, everybody in the village knew, if we sneezed, they knew. And the next morning we woke up and it was right across the street from the, from three schools and all the school kids, like 200 school kids, were standing out in the road outside the fence, getting a chance to look at us. I have a picture of it. It's really bizarre."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fun. Little ticked off that I sort of, I'm sure stars have to, you know, wade through the paparazzi, you know. I felt sort of the same way, I'm sure. It didn't really bother me. And so we stayed in that house for, oh, about three months or so because we had to get a larger place and a less public place. I mean, it really was living on stage. And I got sick there for the first time and, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody knew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody knew. And I had to go out and they built a little outhouse in the back. And I went out there and it was really cold because it was in the December. This is where, it was cold enough there to freeze water on the, you know, crust, the water on the top of our buckets. And of course, we had no heat. And so here I was really sick and vomiting and I'd go out in the backyard and vomit and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Break the ice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.15720405316659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fun. Little ticked off that I sort of, I'm sure stars have to, you know, wade through the paparazzi, you know. I felt sort of the same way, I'm sure. It didn't really bother me. And so we stayed in that house for, oh, about three months or so because we had to get a larger place and a less public place. I mean, it really was living on stage. And I got sick there for the first time and, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody knew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody knew. And I had to go out and they built a little outhouse in the back. And I went out there and it was really cold because it was in the December. This is where, it was cold enough there to freeze water on the, you know, crust, the water on the top of our buckets. And of course, we had no heat. And so here I was really sick and vomiting and I'd go out in the backyard and vomit and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Break the ice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the, well, I was vomiting in the backyard, not on the in the water. And the, and the village, some of the village dogs snapping below me, trying to get, eat the vomit, fighting with each other, trying to eat the vomit because they'd come by. It was, it was pretty, it was pretty harrowing. And I, you know, I would yell at them and hurl at them, so to speak, and they'd go away with. And they'd fight over it with each other because they wanted to eat the vomit. They were hungry. They were hungry. And I think early on that was the, that was one of the times when I felt like, oh my God, what have I gotten myself into? When I was really sick. I'm out here in the middle of nowhere and really sick. And of course, the physician, an Indian trained physician, very fine doctor, gave me the medicine and I got better but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did this scenario look like? I have a sense of the room in this building. It's public and the schools and the backyard."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.39689339240732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody knew. And I had to go out and they built a little outhouse in the back. And I went out there and it was really cold because it was in the December. This is where, it was cold enough there to freeze water on the, you know, crust, the water on the top of our buckets. And of course, we had no heat. And so here I was really sick and vomiting and I'd go out in the backyard and vomit and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Break the ice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the, well, I was vomiting in the backyard, not on the in the water. And the, and the village, some of the village dogs snapping below me, trying to get, eat the vomit, fighting with each other, trying to eat the vomit because they'd come by. It was, it was pretty, it was pretty harrowing. And I, you know, I would yell at them and hurl at them, so to speak, and they'd go away with. And they'd fight over it with each other because they wanted to eat the vomit. They were hungry. They were hungry. And I think early on that was the, that was one of the times when I felt like, oh my God, what have I gotten myself into? When I was really sick. I'm out here in the middle of nowhere and really sick. And of course, the physician, an Indian trained physician, very fine doctor, gave me the medicine and I got better but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did this scenario look like? I have a sense of the room in this building. It's public and the schools and the backyard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And bamboo fences and dirt roads and tile roofs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the people, were they colorfully? What was it, was it like a plain environment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.694050896853641, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it went to, yeah. And the schedule of the hospital that I worked at was like that. There was a, there was a morning session, a big siesta for the lack of a better word. And then it would start up again and run to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We were asleep at 2:00, so. Start up again at 3:30 or 4:00 and run for two or 3 hours. And then it depends. And it'd depend upon the number of patients who were there and whether we closed at what time, that sort of thing. And then you'd, then the doctor would come down and sit. We lived above a pharmacy and, uh, our new house. After we moved out of the panchayat's house, the panchayat. And the doctor would come down and drink tea and he'd talk and see people who couldn't get into the hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was only one doctor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, only, well, there was, there was a traditional Ayurvedic doctor and then ours from the health center who was Western trained or trained in Western medicine. And we'd sit around and drink tea and tell stories and gossip and talk about politics and that sort of thing. And then we'd."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All in Hindu?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.6600565520596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We were asleep at 2:00, so. Start up again at 3:30 or 4:00 and run for two or 3 hours. And then it depends. And it'd depend upon the number of patients who were there and whether we closed at what time, that sort of thing. And then you'd, then the doctor would come down and sit. We lived above a pharmacy and, uh, our new house. After we moved out of the panchayat's house, the panchayat. And the doctor would come down and drink tea and he'd talk and see people who couldn't get into the hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was only one doctor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, only, well, there was, there was a traditional Ayurvedic doctor and then ours from the health center who was Western trained or trained in Western medicine. And we'd sit around and drink tea and tell stories and gossip and talk about politics and that sort of thing. And then we'd."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All in Hindu?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a mix, a strong mix of English and Hindi, mostly Hindi. But, you know, every once in a while it would be English. And then we'd eat about 9:00, 10:00 or so and go to bed. I'd read and go to bed. A lot of times, especially in the winter when it was easy to travel, we'd get into the hospital jeep and go out to the outlying areas to dispensaries and what have you, to do little education projects, that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First, tell me about the winter schedule as opposed to the summer schedule."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.123526607480989, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a mix, a strong mix of English and Hindi, mostly Hindi. But, you know, every once in a while it would be English. And then we'd eat about 9:00, 10:00 or so and go to bed. I'd read and go to bed. A lot of times, especially in the winter when it was easy to travel, we'd get into the hospital jeep and go out to the outlying areas to dispensaries and what have you, to do little education projects, that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First, tell me about the winter schedule as opposed to the summer schedule."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The winter schedule, you went to bed at 7:00 in the evening and got up at 9:00. I mean, I'm not sure whether these are the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, it was, it was when the sun was out, you were out, and you'd or people would get up at 7:00 in the morning and stand in the sun to get warm and drink tea. And then the day would start and then you'd go all day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "7:00 p.m. or 7:00 a.m.?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.803918452756655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The winter schedule, you went to bed at 7:00 in the evening and got up at 9:00. I mean, I'm not sure whether these are the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, it was, it was when the sun was out, you were out, and you'd or people would get up at 7:00 in the morning and stand in the sun to get warm and drink tea. And then the day would start and then you'd go all day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "7:00 p.m. or 7:00 a.m.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "7:00 a.m. Yeah. You'd go, you'd work all day. And then when it got really, really cold, you'd get in bed. And you'd say. It was just the absolutely the opposite. Very much like living in winter here. You go to bed earlier and you sleep all at one point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there mountains around?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.559909391951838, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, it was, it was when the sun was out, you were out, and you'd or people would get up at 7:00 in the morning and stand in the sun to get warm and drink tea. And then the day would start and then you'd go all day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "7:00 p.m. or 7:00 a.m.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "7:00 a.m. Yeah. You'd go, you'd work all day. And then when it got really, really cold, you'd get in bed. And you'd say. It was just the absolutely the opposite. Very much like living in winter here. You go to bed earlier and you sleep all at one point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there mountains around?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it flat?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.333221471545478, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it flat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was hilly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hilly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hilly with some plains. They grew rice, chickpeas, wheat were the major crops. Water chestnuts in the, in the tank when it had water in it. I was vegetarian most of the time that I was there. Never ate any of the fish that came from the tank. I wasn't eating any of the fish that came from that tank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or anything else that came from the tank."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.370246079494976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was hilly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hilly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hilly with some plains. They grew rice, chickpeas, wheat were the major crops. Water chestnuts in the, in the tank when it had water in it. I was vegetarian most of the time that I was there. Never ate any of the fish that came from the tank. I wasn't eating any of the fish that came from that tank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or anything else that came from the tank."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we, and we would, we, uh, any time we ever had anything that was not vegetarian, it was usually in the big city close by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, did you go to the big city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 11.522495643883307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hilly with some plains. They grew rice, chickpeas, wheat were the major crops. Water chestnuts in the, in the tank when it had water in it. I was vegetarian most of the time that I was there. Never ate any of the fish that came from the tank. I wasn't eating any of the fish that came from that tank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or anything else that came from the tank."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we, and we would, we, uh, any time we ever had anything that was not vegetarian, it was usually in the big city close by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, did you go to the big city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would go on a weekend once every three weeks or so. My roommate really did not like the village, and he went almost every weekend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do on the weekend in the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.779921156807578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said, oh my, no, no, no. Which meant, Ken spit in the mouth of a young child. And what he meant was spit in the face of, but it was, you know, that was the term. And I said, no, he didn't do that. No, no, no, no, no, no. And finally I said, I don't believe it. And it turned out the child was the grandchild of the head of the village. So this was really not going on too well. And so I ended up. Ken came bicycling through and I said, what happened? And I said, did you spit in the kid's face? He said, yes, I did. I said, why did you do that? And he said, because he was taunting me. They were sticking sticks in my, in my bicycle spokes. And they were calling me laal bandar, which means red monkey, which is a derogatory term for, uh, that they used for English because they would turn red in the face and had sandy hair and it looked just like the monkeys in our village.\n\nAnd so I had to do something. And so I said, okay, thanks. You shouldn't have spit in his head, in his face, but thanks for the information. And so I, they had a big meeting and the, they were yelling and screaming at me and I, uh, you know, Americans ra ra ra ra! And I said, this is my story. This is what I heard, because Ken was out of the village. We got him out of the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He wasn't a Peace Corps volunteer in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was, no. He was a Peace Corps volunteer about 20 miles away. And, uh, so I told the head of the village what had happened. And so the head of the village brought his grandson in and said, what did you do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old was he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he, and he confessed. Ten, 12, something like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He told the truth?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.311023507563975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was, no. He was a Peace Corps volunteer about 20 miles away. And, uh, so I told the head of the village what had happened. And so the head of the village brought his grandson in and said, what did you do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old was he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he, and he confessed. Ten, 12, something like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He told the truth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He told the truth. And so, and I said, and I apologized for Ken. He should not have done that. And then he made the little boy apologize to me. And so it, well, things were a little rough for a while after that. But, uh, and the kids, and I always when they called me laal bandar, I ignored them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what does that mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5678038972933064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he, and he confessed. Ten, 12, something like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He told the truth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He told the truth. And so, and I said, and I apologized for Ken. He should not have done that. And then he made the little boy apologize to me. And so it, well, things were a little rough for a while after that. But, uh, and the kids, and I always when they called me laal bandar, I ignored them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what does that mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Laal bandar, red monkey. And he, then he, because I tan a lot they suddenly said I was becoming Indian and really, you know, I wore Indian clothes and they said, oh you can pass. You look like you're a Kashmiri Brahmin, you know? You know, they really accepted me. And a lot of it had to do with my ability with the language. They continued to call my Minnesota blond, fair roommate laal bandar. But if they started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that alright or was that a problem with the Peace Corps around looking like an Indian or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8531154414370072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He told the truth. And so, and I said, and I apologized for Ken. He should not have done that. And then he made the little boy apologize to me. And so it, well, things were a little rough for a while after that. But, uh, and the kids, and I always when they called me laal bandar, I ignored them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what does that mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Laal bandar, red monkey. And he, then he, because I tan a lot they suddenly said I was becoming Indian and really, you know, I wore Indian clothes and they said, oh you can pass. You look like you're a Kashmiri Brahmin, you know? You know, they really accepted me. And a lot of it had to do with my ability with the language. They continued to call my Minnesota blond, fair roommate laal bandar. But if they started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that alright or was that a problem with the Peace Corps around looking like an Indian or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, no, no, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a positive thing that the Peace Corps was accepting?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.348598447549165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really interesting. We were sent there to do sanitation and build latrines, and nobody was interested in building latrines. Nobody in our village. And we had one. Several people had them, but absolutely nobody was interested in it. And I finally decided I'm going to, I'm going to stop hitting my head against the wall and do something else. And just do something else. I could, I could, I could do something unproductive for two years and not do anything, or I could do something that was more accepting. So I did, I did the, helped demonstration poultry flocks and kitchen gardens and also taught in the regional social work school and taught communication skills.\n\nAnd we would put on family planning plays and puppet shows in the, in the villages. I helped the doctor train people to assist in vasectomies. This was not back when vasectomies were coerced. I never really believed that that happened, but I guess it did. That was all after I left. And I saw some pretty rough stuff. Really, really rough stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rough in the sense of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I helped the doctor put a guy's guts back in his stomach after he'd been gored by a bull. It was a TB center. And so periodically I would have to help aspirate lungs. They'd stick needles into the, big, thick needles into the lungs, through the ribs in somebody's back, and then pull out pus from the lungs from TB. That, that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You started off by maybe wanting to be a physician."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, I was, I was, I was very much. I wanted a medical group in India. So I could kind of test myself, you know, and, uh, and it's what I got. I actually refused. They said, you can go earlier if you'd like and go into a poultry group. And I said, no, I'll stay. I'll wait for this medical group. Ended up still doing poultry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said kitchen gardens and poultry what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.368640058702673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, I was, I was, I was very much. I wanted a medical group in India. So I could kind of test myself, you know, and, uh, and it's what I got. I actually refused. They said, you can go earlier if you'd like and go into a poultry group. And I said, no, I'll stay. I'll wait for this medical group. Ended up still doing poultry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said kitchen gardens and poultry what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Raised poultry. I had, I had a, I had a demonstration flock of 400 chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did it by going into, getting, going into partnership with local farmers. I never took anything out of it, of course, but we got, I got special project money from the, from the Peace Corps. And we would build the, uh, the chicken huts, the coop, that was so huge. It was actually huge. And, and I would go in and politic with the, with the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you, how did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.965155620780748, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Raised poultry. I had, I had a, I had a demonstration flock of 400 chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did it by going into, getting, going into partnership with local farmers. I never took anything out of it, of course, but we got, I got special project money from the, from the Peace Corps. And we would build the, uh, the chicken huts, the coop, that was so huge. It was actually huge. And, and I would go in and politic with the, with the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you, how did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Politic with the, um, with the university, the ag extension, and get the ag extension people out to our village because they would, our village was not known to be receptive village. It was kind of far away from everything. And the ag people didn't like to go that far. And so I did an awful lot of, of sitting on the front doorsteps of the people in the ag."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far away were they?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.516839578645276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did it by going into, getting, going into partnership with local farmers. I never took anything out of it, of course, but we got, I got special project money from the, from the Peace Corps. And we would build the, uh, the chicken huts, the coop, that was so huge. It was actually huge. And, and I would go in and politic with the, with the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you, how did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Politic with the, um, with the university, the ag extension, and get the ag extension people out to our village because they would, our village was not known to be receptive village. It was kind of far away from everything. And the ag people didn't like to go that far. And so I did an awful lot of, of sitting on the front doorsteps of the people in the ag."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far away were they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 45 miles or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So making that contact."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.129821754050306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Politic with the, um, with the university, the ag extension, and get the ag extension people out to our village because they would, our village was not known to be receptive village. It was kind of far away from everything. And the ag people didn't like to go that far. And so I did an awful lot of, of sitting on the front doorsteps of the people in the ag."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far away were they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 45 miles or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So making that contact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Making it and continual and just continuing to go back and continuing to go there and buying the seedlings for the gardens and, you know, constantly being present, taking a trip in and meeting people there and just kind of like raising awareness. It's kind of like this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take some of the villagers with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.810913060055896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 45 miles or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So making that contact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Making it and continual and just continuing to go back and continuing to go there and buying the seedlings for the gardens and, you know, constantly being present, taking a trip in and meeting people there and just kind of like raising awareness. It's kind of like this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take some of the villagers with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the time, no. Most of the time, no. Sometimes it was kind of like the squeaky wheel gets the, gets the grease. Well, I was the squeaky wheel to get the grease into the, into, further into the region. They really didn't want to go off the road very far. And though there was a road that went to our village, it was still a pretty rough road and pretty far. And so they never would reach that from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have to know the leaders of the community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.567681177839884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Making it and continual and just continuing to go back and continuing to go there and buying the seedlings for the gardens and, you know, constantly being present, taking a trip in and meeting people there and just kind of like raising awareness. It's kind of like this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take some of the villagers with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the time, no. Most of the time, no. Sometimes it was kind of like the squeaky wheel gets the, gets the grease. Well, I was the squeaky wheel to get the grease into the, into, further into the region. They really didn't want to go off the road very far. And though there was a road that went to our village, it was still a pretty rough road and pretty far. And so they never would reach that from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have to know the leaders of the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like what was the doctor's name, for example?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.297423530933204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the time, no. Most of the time, no. Sometimes it was kind of like the squeaky wheel gets the, gets the grease. Well, I was the squeaky wheel to get the grease into the, into, further into the region. They really didn't want to go off the road very far. And though there was a road that went to our village, it was still a pretty rough road and pretty far. And so they never would reach that from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have to know the leaders of the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like what was the doctor's name, for example?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, his name? His name was Prafulla Dagat, P-R-A-F-U-L- L-A D-A-G-A-T. And."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he someone that invited you over for dinner to his place?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.10824836770356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like what was the doctor's name, for example?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, his name? His name was Prafulla Dagat, P-R-A-F-U-L- L-A D-A-G-A-T. And."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he someone that invited you over for dinner to his place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, he was, well, he was my supervisor, and we would eat at his place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any personal contact with him?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.564720408559509, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, his name? His name was Prafulla Dagat, P-R-A-F-U-L- L-A D-A-G-A-T. And."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he someone that invited you over for dinner to his place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, he was, well, he was my supervisor, and we would eat at his place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any personal contact with him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. In fact, in fact, uh, a year ago, I went to Houston, Texas, to visit him because he was in the United States to visit his daughter, his first trip to the United States. So it's now 35 years later. I still have contact with him. We actually, you know, if you believe in past lives or kind of you meet somebody in your life every once and there's a special attraction or an energy or something there that. The doctor and I, the doctor and I had that, whatever that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You hadn't kept in touch during that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9608004539550103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, he was, well, he was my supervisor, and we would eat at his place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any personal contact with him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. In fact, in fact, uh, a year ago, I went to Houston, Texas, to visit him because he was in the United States to visit his daughter, his first trip to the United States. So it's now 35 years later. I still have contact with him. We actually, you know, if you believe in past lives or kind of you meet somebody in your life every once and there's a special attraction or an energy or something there that. The doctor and I, the doctor and I had that, whatever that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You hadn't kept in touch during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, absolutely. Every, every few years. Not constantly, but every, but every few years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you worked well together from the very beginning?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.400889393283345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. In fact, in fact, uh, a year ago, I went to Houston, Texas, to visit him because he was in the United States to visit his daughter, his first trip to the United States. So it's now 35 years later. I still have contact with him. We actually, you know, if you believe in past lives or kind of you meet somebody in your life every once and there's a special attraction or an energy or something there that. The doctor and I, the doctor and I had that, whatever that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You hadn't kept in touch during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, absolutely. Every, every few years. Not constantly, but every, but every few years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you worked well together from the very beginning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely. And his wife. In traditional Indian culture, ancient Indian culture, if a man dies and leaves a widow without a child, then it is the duty of the younger brother to provide that woman with a child, i.e. sleep with her. So that she gets pregnant. And that child is not his child. It's his older brother's child."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The one that died."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.433196781831289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely. And his wife. In traditional Indian culture, ancient Indian culture, if a man dies and leaves a widow without a child, then it is the duty of the younger brother to provide that woman with a child, i.e. sleep with her. So that she gets pregnant. And that child is not his child. It's his older brother's child."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The one that died."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one that died. So there is, that's very old tradition. Now, what, what, what's the remnant of that in the culture is that there is something called bhabhi-devar, B-H-A-B-I D-E-W-A-R [sic] relationship, and that's between a woman and her husband's younger brother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay? So I was considered his wife's younger brother. And so there were several times, one time when she got very sick and had to go to the, to the city. Um, she, I accompanied her. No other. And that was okay. She, no other man who is not in the, in the family could accompany her, but I could because I was considered by everyone to be his younger brother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, that was an overt thing that grew out of the friendship that you were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.036885313145877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one that died. So there is, that's very old tradition. Now, what, what, what's the remnant of that in the culture is that there is something called bhabhi-devar, B-H-A-B-I D-E-W-A-R [sic] relationship, and that's between a woman and her husband's younger brother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay? So I was considered his wife's younger brother. And so there were several times, one time when she got very sick and had to go to the, to the city. Um, she, I accompanied her. No other. And that was okay. She, no other man who is not in the, in the family could accompany her, but I could because I was considered by everyone to be his younger brother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, that was an overt thing that grew out of the friendship that you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there's, there was, there was a, there's something in India called fictive kinship. And if you, everybody is related to in some way as either if you're close as family. So all of his kids. In fact, all of his brothers' and sisters' kids called me chacha, which means father's younger brother. It's uncle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did this man say, I want you to be?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.707650347939863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay? So I was considered his wife's younger brother. And so there were several times, one time when she got very sick and had to go to the, to the city. Um, she, I accompanied her. No other. And that was okay. She, no other man who is not in the, in the family could accompany her, but I could because I was considered by everyone to be his younger brother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, that was an overt thing that grew out of the friendship that you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there's, there was, there was a, there's something in India called fictive kinship. And if you, everybody is related to in some way as either if you're close as family. So all of his kids. In fact, all of his brothers' and sisters' kids called me chacha, which means father's younger brother. It's uncle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did this man say, I want you to be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he didn't say it. It just happens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just happens."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.452944831044292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there's, there was, there was a, there's something in India called fictive kinship. And if you, everybody is related to in some way as either if you're close as family. So all of his kids. In fact, all of his brothers' and sisters' kids called me chacha, which means father's younger brother. It's uncle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did this man say, I want you to be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he didn't say it. It just happens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just happens."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just happens. Yeah. Yeah. And in traditional India, men are not generally allowed into the kitchens except the brother's younger. I mean, the husband's younger brother can go in and be in the kitchen with the wife. So there's this left over relationship that's there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it's also safe, this person?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.058827590049213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he didn't say it. It just happens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just happens."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just happens. Yeah. Yeah. And in traditional India, men are not generally allowed into the kitchens except the brother's younger. I mean, the husband's younger brother can go in and be in the kitchen with the wife. So there's this left over relationship that's there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it's also safe, this person?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And you. And there's, there's usually a lot of teasing between that woman and the man, you know, the bhabhi and the devar. There's a lot of teasing. And his, and Dr. Dagat's wife, Sudha, had a really wicked sense of humor. And she, we would tease each other, no end. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the family that you knew the best there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.732030655610236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just happens. Yeah. Yeah. And in traditional India, men are not generally allowed into the kitchens except the brother's younger. I mean, the husband's younger brother can go in and be in the kitchen with the wife. So there's this left over relationship that's there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it's also safe, this person?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And you. And there's, there's usually a lot of teasing between that woman and the man, you know, the bhabhi and the devar. There's a lot of teasing. And his, and Dr. Dagat's wife, Sudha, had a really wicked sense of humor. And she, we would tease each other, no end. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the family that you knew the best there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know other people there or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.480034061789151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And you. And there's, there's usually a lot of teasing between that woman and the man, you know, the bhabhi and the devar. There's a lot of teasing. And his, and Dr. Dagat's wife, Sudha, had a really wicked sense of humor. And she, we would tease each other, no end. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the family that you knew the best there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know other people there or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, lots of other people, but none like this. None like this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Peace Corps director, did he come out or did she come out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.311148957543502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know other people there or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, lots of other people, but none like this. None like this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Peace Corps director, did he come out or did she come out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, Peace Corps in India was really big at that time. And so it was divided into five regions, four or five regions, and each of those regions was as big or bigger than a whole country in another, you know, another place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a regional director?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.123498841715001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, lots of other people, but none like this. None like this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Peace Corps director, did he come out or did she come out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, Peace Corps in India was really big at that time. And so it was divided into five regions, four or five regions, and each of those regions was as big or bigger than a whole country in another, you know, another place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a regional director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was a regional director in Bhopal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see them much? Did they come visit you? Did you go see them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.692776490794446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, Peace Corps in India was really big at that time. And so it was divided into five regions, four or five regions, and each of those regions was as big or bigger than a whole country in another, you know, another place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a regional director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was a regional director in Bhopal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see them much? Did they come visit you? Did you go see them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not much. We were really way out there. We did not, we did. First of all, it was a 24 hour train ride across the state to, or not 24 hours, but it was probably about, it's a 24 hour trip. You had to go to the bus stop, ride the bus in, get the train, you know. I think our Peace Corps director or regional director visited once in the two times, two years that I was there. And the country director never visited, of course. And then our, the Peace Corps nurse came two or three times to give us our gamma globulin shot, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you go and meet volunteers from other villages?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.325307211993829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was a regional director in Bhopal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see them much? Did they come visit you? Did you go see them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not much. We were really way out there. We did not, we did. First of all, it was a 24 hour train ride across the state to, or not 24 hours, but it was probably about, it's a 24 hour trip. You had to go to the bus stop, ride the bus in, get the train, you know. I think our Peace Corps director or regional director visited once in the two times, two years that I was there. And the country director never visited, of course. And then our, the Peace Corps nurse came two or three times to give us our gamma globulin shot, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you go and meet volunteers from other villages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much. And our group was so spread out that in the central area we would go. And should there be another volunteer from our group or from some other group in the village, we could, we would see them in the big city. And there was one, one couple of guys that lived in the big city that had several rooms, and we'd all sort of camp out in their rooms. They had a couple of extra beds and we'd all roll our sleeping bags and sleep on the floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that didn't happen very often?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6947857911042545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not much. We were really way out there. We did not, we did. First of all, it was a 24 hour train ride across the state to, or not 24 hours, but it was probably about, it's a 24 hour trip. You had to go to the bus stop, ride the bus in, get the train, you know. I think our Peace Corps director or regional director visited once in the two times, two years that I was there. And the country director never visited, of course. And then our, the Peace Corps nurse came two or three times to give us our gamma globulin shot, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you go and meet volunteers from other villages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much. And our group was so spread out that in the central area we would go. And should there be another volunteer from our group or from some other group in the village, we could, we would see them in the big city. And there was one, one couple of guys that lived in the big city that had several rooms, and we'd all sort of camp out in their rooms. They had a couple of extra beds and we'd all roll our sleeping bags and sleep on the floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that didn't happen very often?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for Tom it was almost every weekend. And for me, it was every three weeks or so. And sometimes the people would be there and sometimes they wouldn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the end of the first year, you were feeling better. You gotten through your illness, you had moved to another place that was better than the public place that was small."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.105317545671394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much. And our group was so spread out that in the central area we would go. And should there be another volunteer from our group or from some other group in the village, we could, we would see them in the big city. And there was one, one couple of guys that lived in the big city that had several rooms, and we'd all sort of camp out in their rooms. They had a couple of extra beds and we'd all roll our sleeping bags and sleep on the floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that didn't happen very often?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for Tom it was almost every weekend. And for me, it was every three weeks or so. And sometimes the people would be there and sometimes they wouldn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the end of the first year, you were feeling better. You gotten through your illness, you had moved to another place that was better than the public place that was small."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had changed projects."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.561463939634882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for Tom it was almost every weekend. And for me, it was every three weeks or so. And sometimes the people would be there and sometimes they wouldn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the end of the first year, you were feeling better. You gotten through your illness, you had moved to another place that was better than the public place that was small."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had changed projects."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it turned out the whole time I was there, we just. Everything that we could, anything we could come up with to do, we'd do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you created."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.068293266260979, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had changed projects."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it turned out the whole time I was there, we just. Everything that we could, anything we could come up with to do, we'd do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you created."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we, yeah, it was like you had to, you know, they told us in training you're going to create your own job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So like what did you do in the hospital?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.631436962512199, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it turned out the whole time I was there, we just. Everything that we could, anything we could come up with to do, we'd do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you created."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we, yeah, it was like you had to, you know, they told us in training you're going to create your own job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So like what did you do in the hospital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.146041069457999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we, yeah, it was like you had to, you know, they told us in training you're going to create your own job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So like what did you do in the hospital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of times it was assist, uh, in the medical procedures. You know, give shots because we were trying to give shots and stuff like that. We, uh. I know one project it took a couple of months to do was to straighten the hospital up and make it look like a hospital and repaint it and reorganize it so that things would flow better and people wouldn't be stumbling over each other. And, you know, all of the lines of patients that would come in from one direction and leave in another direction, rather going down this tiny little hall. It was actually like open verandas was what it really was. It was no enclosed halls, but there were always people stumbling over each other. And I said, well, here's this logical traffic flow kind of guy coming in. And we kind of reorganized things like that. I mean, we did things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was always imagination and creativity going on. Did you have times when you couldn't think of anything or there wasn't?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.606712299397777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of times it was assist, uh, in the medical procedures. You know, give shots because we were trying to give shots and stuff like that. We, uh. I know one project it took a couple of months to do was to straighten the hospital up and make it look like a hospital and repaint it and reorganize it so that things would flow better and people wouldn't be stumbling over each other. And, you know, all of the lines of patients that would come in from one direction and leave in another direction, rather going down this tiny little hall. It was actually like open verandas was what it really was. It was no enclosed halls, but there were always people stumbling over each other. And I said, well, here's this logical traffic flow kind of guy coming in. And we kind of reorganized things like that. I mean, we did things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was always imagination and creativity going on. Did you have times when you couldn't think of anything or there wasn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, there were, there were some times like, oh, what the heck is going to go on? I'm going to, it's been a week and I haven't done anything. Or we started something and I'm going to have to shepherd this through the regional government. And so I really want to get it started in a week, but it's going to really take four months before I can get permission. And I have got to go and sit on somebody's doorstep to do something. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you take trips and go to other neighboring countries?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.118569221553085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of times it was assist, uh, in the medical procedures. You know, give shots because we were trying to give shots and stuff like that. We, uh. I know one project it took a couple of months to do was to straighten the hospital up and make it look like a hospital and repaint it and reorganize it so that things would flow better and people wouldn't be stumbling over each other. And, you know, all of the lines of patients that would come in from one direction and leave in another direction, rather going down this tiny little hall. It was actually like open verandas was what it really was. It was no enclosed halls, but there were always people stumbling over each other. And I said, well, here's this logical traffic flow kind of guy coming in. And we kind of reorganized things like that. I mean, we did things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was always imagination and creativity going on. Did you have times when you couldn't think of anything or there wasn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, there were, there were some times like, oh, what the heck is going to go on? I'm going to, it's been a week and I haven't done anything. Or we started something and I'm going to have to shepherd this through the regional government. And so I really want to get it started in a week, but it's going to really take four months before I can get permission. And I have got to go and sit on somebody's doorstep to do something. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you take trips and go to other neighboring countries?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were not allowed to go out of the country without, without special permission. And, uh, we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go on vacation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.687299135058983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, there were, there were some times like, oh, what the heck is going to go on? I'm going to, it's been a week and I haven't done anything. Or we started something and I'm going to have to shepherd this through the regional government. And so I really want to get it started in a week, but it's going to really take four months before I can get permission. And I have got to go and sit on somebody's doorstep to do something. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you take trips and go to other neighboring countries?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were not allowed to go out of the country without, without special permission. And, uh, we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go on vacation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went on vacation. I traveled all over India, periodically, still had a lot of time left to, you know, the official time left. I was not out of sight very much at all. And I must admit, I did feel a little bit holier than thou about that compared to some of the other people who were traveling around a little bit too long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had a real determination from the very beginning to go there and to do a certain piece of work."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.319221261176648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were not allowed to go out of the country without, without special permission. And, uh, we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go on vacation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went on vacation. I traveled all over India, periodically, still had a lot of time left to, you know, the official time left. I was not out of sight very much at all. And I must admit, I did feel a little bit holier than thou about that compared to some of the other people who were traveling around a little bit too long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had a real determination from the very beginning to go there and to do a certain piece of work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then there was lots of imagination, creativity. So you were pretty stimulated."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.021356956862943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went on vacation. I traveled all over India, periodically, still had a lot of time left to, you know, the official time left. I was not out of sight very much at all. And I must admit, I did feel a little bit holier than thou about that compared to some of the other people who were traveling around a little bit too long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had a real determination from the very beginning to go there and to do a certain piece of work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then there was lots of imagination, creativity. So you were pretty stimulated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved it. I loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a really."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.690396618736603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then there was lots of imagination, creativity. So you were pretty stimulated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved it. I loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, and I was, you know, I made a mark. I don't know what the mark is today, but I certainly, I certainly made a mark on the Dagat family. I hear from his daughter in Houston now that there is, there are legends about me amongst his family, the Dagat family, everybody. And I said, I don't remember any of this. But she said, oh, but there are stories. And it's nice. It's, it's, it's, yeah. You know, I think, I think some of the things that that happened. Being sick. The doctor, the doctor's wife lost a child that was born and died two, three, two or three days later. Going through a lot of that stuff with them, you know, that makes you family. That makes you real family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you felt accepted and involved in a family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.914069899674818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, and I was, you know, I made a mark. I don't know what the mark is today, but I certainly, I certainly made a mark on the Dagat family. I hear from his daughter in Houston now that there is, there are legends about me amongst his family, the Dagat family, everybody. And I said, I don't remember any of this. But she said, oh, but there are stories. And it's nice. It's, it's, it's, yeah. You know, I think, I think some of the things that that happened. Being sick. The doctor, the doctor's wife lost a child that was born and died two, three, two or three days later. Going through a lot of that stuff with them, you know, that makes you family. That makes you real family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you felt accepted and involved in a family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Especially since it was, you know, I was raised as an only child with parents who kind of rejected their families and went off, left rural Missouri to go live in big Houston, Texas. And so I really had, I really had as an only child, I had no brothers and sisters. I only have three cousins, you know, and they were a way off, never saw them. So I didn't have that, that sense of family. It was always just my mother and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was just the doctor and his wife. But ultimately, I met his brothers and I met their wives and their kids and that sort of thing. And they were all scattered in Bombay and New Delhi and what have you, but I met them on and off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you felt a part of their family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.571188777416464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Especially since it was, you know, I was raised as an only child with parents who kind of rejected their families and went off, left rural Missouri to go live in big Houston, Texas. And so I really had, I really had as an only child, I had no brothers and sisters. I only have three cousins, you know, and they were a way off, never saw them. So I didn't have that, that sense of family. It was always just my mother and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was just the doctor and his wife. But ultimately, I met his brothers and I met their wives and their kids and that sort of thing. And they were all scattered in Bombay and New Delhi and what have you, but I met them on and off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you felt a part of their family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, very much so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So by the end."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.301320863796071, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was just the doctor and his wife. But ultimately, I met his brothers and I met their wives and their kids and that sort of thing. And they were all scattered in Bombay and New Delhi and what have you, but I met them on and off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you felt a part of their family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, very much so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So by the end."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, when I, when I left India, I was medically evacuated from India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what was that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.112578737551189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, very much so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So by the end."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, when I, when I left India, I was medically evacuated from India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was still, still amoebas and that sort of thing. And, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you not finish the whole two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.680643041723544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, when I, when I left India, I was medically evacuated from India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was still, still amoebas and that sort of thing. And, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you not finish the whole two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, uh, no, I went to end of service conference, the one that's three months before or. [tape break] So end. I went to the end of the service conference. They said, well, you're not going to go back to your village for a month before you come to, before you know. I've forgotten what they call the close of service or what it was. The one where you went in and then you didn't go back to your village. I mean, you packed up and left your village. There was a little conference at the very end, too, at that time. That's the one that I missed. But when I left, uh. There was somebody from the, uh, Jabalpur that was coming in to pick me up and my trunk.\n\nAnd so I came, they came out to pick me up. And the doctor and his wife and the health staff had served me a big meal and all this little honored thing. And they were kind of ticked because they'd wanted to buy me a gold chain or something like that, but they didn't have time to have the goldsmith make it because I was leaving early. And so we went out to the. I'm going to get upset talking about this. But we went out to the jeep and then the doctor said, Sudha, his wife, who had not come to the Jeep. He said, Sudha has something for you. Go back. And so I went back and it was just her and me. And she did this beautiful Hindu blessing and marked my forehead. You know, here I am, you know, 35 years later. It was really, you know, and I left doing what I'm doing now. So it was deep, deep stuff with the family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had no idea when he said that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.311825601915048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was still, still amoebas and that sort of thing. And, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you not finish the whole two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, uh, no, I went to end of service conference, the one that's three months before or. [tape break] So end. I went to the end of the service conference. They said, well, you're not going to go back to your village for a month before you come to, before you know. I've forgotten what they call the close of service or what it was. The one where you went in and then you didn't go back to your village. I mean, you packed up and left your village. There was a little conference at the very end, too, at that time. That's the one that I missed. But when I left, uh. There was somebody from the, uh, Jabalpur that was coming in to pick me up and my trunk.\n\nAnd so I came, they came out to pick me up. And the doctor and his wife and the health staff had served me a big meal and all this little honored thing. And they were kind of ticked because they'd wanted to buy me a gold chain or something like that, but they didn't have time to have the goldsmith make it because I was leaving early. And so we went out to the. I'm going to get upset talking about this. But we went out to the jeep and then the doctor said, Sudha, his wife, who had not come to the Jeep. He said, Sudha has something for you. Go back. And so I went back and it was just her and me. And she did this beautiful Hindu blessing and marked my forehead. You know, here I am, you know, 35 years later. It was really, you know, and I left doing what I'm doing now. So it was deep, deep stuff with the family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had no idea when he said that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had no idea that. And it was this, this bhabhi-devar thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You thought she was going to tease you and say goodbye."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.792377286314875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had no idea that. And it was this, this bhabhi-devar thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You thought she was going to tease you and say goodbye."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or she was just going to say goodbye or whatever. And here was this ceremony with burning camphor and prayers and holy water and rice thrown on my head and the mark, a tika, put on my, on my forehead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That meant you had total acceptance into the family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I mean, it was, it was, you know, I didn't. I was kind of befuddled but really moved and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you told this story before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.658196984794305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or she was just going to say goodbye or whatever. And here was this ceremony with burning camphor and prayers and holy water and rice thrown on my head and the mark, a tika, put on my, on my forehead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That meant you had total acceptance into the family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I mean, it was, it was, you know, I didn't. I was kind of befuddled but really moved and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you told this story before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you tell this story."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.4545641787584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you tell this story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It always, it always, tears always come. And when I saw them two years ago in Houston, it was a real emotional thing for all of us. And is, is, uh, it was really funny because he was laughing. I had sent some pictures back that I'd taken in India and his grown son now. And most of his kids were born after I left. In fact, all of them were. The daughter that is kind of considered my goddaughter. And she believes that I named her. That's part of the lore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And all of the kids, he moved on from that place and became a cardiac surgeon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In another village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.393960198620444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It always, it always, tears always come. And when I saw them two years ago in Houston, it was a real emotional thing for all of us. And is, is, uh, it was really funny because he was laughing. I had sent some pictures back that I'd taken in India and his grown son now. And most of his kids were born after I left. In fact, all of them were. The daughter that is kind of considered my goddaughter. And she believes that I named her. That's part of the lore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And all of the kids, he moved on from that place and became a cardiac surgeon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In another village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. In the big regional center. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean a real cardiac thoracic surgeon. And of course, they're well off now. And this, he was just starting his career. He was, he's only five years older than me. Just, he was fresh out of med school when I, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went to the village."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.597481726691905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. In the big regional center. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean a real cardiac thoracic surgeon. And of course, they're well off now. And this, he was just starting his career. He was, he's only five years older than me. Just, he was fresh out of med school when I, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went to the village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When he went to the village. Yeah. And his kids said, I can't believe that you lived in a place like that. So in many respects, his kids view that experience of him and his wife there in that village very much like me being in the Peace Corps. They can't believe that he lived out in that because they were not raised that way. They were raised fairly well off in a large city and went to school and went to graduate school and, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so. You know, we were both young and we went through all of this together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So leaving then, when you came out of that blessing and you had to come back and leave, that was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.88609080743545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When he went to the village. Yeah. And his kids said, I can't believe that you lived in a place like that. So in many respects, his kids view that experience of him and his wife there in that village very much like me being in the Peace Corps. They can't believe that he lived out in that because they were not raised that way. They were raised fairly well off in a large city and went to school and went to graduate school and, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so. You know, we were both young and we went through all of this together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So leaving then, when you came out of that blessing and you had to come back and leave, that was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very emotional, needless to say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the whole village or just the family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.90875408325364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very emotional, needless to say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the whole village or just the family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the blessing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, for the blessing, it was just her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I mean, was there emotion around leaving the village and the work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.231948981392934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the blessing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, for the blessing, it was just her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I mean, was there emotion around leaving the village and the work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you know, by that time, it was, it was like, I don't want to go home, but God I'm glad to get out of here. It was, it was really, really mixed. I had considered continuing on for a year, and my roommate had already left early. He left three months early. He finally said, I'm, I'm going to get married and I'm a teacher and I got to go find a job. So he actually left early, left the Peace Corps early, and did not attend any of the, any of the end of service or anything. And so I was there for about three or four months, three months by myself.\n\nAnd, uh. I hope to go back and visit them again. I went back and visited them in 1969 because I trained Peace Corps volunteers and trained them both in the United States and in India. And so I got to visit them in 1969. And their eldest daughter Radha had been born by that time, and I took her a doll. She told me later, as an adult with her kids sitting around her, that that doll was the only doll that she ever had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a reason for that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.702165534881038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, for the blessing, it was just her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I mean, was there emotion around leaving the village and the work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you know, by that time, it was, it was like, I don't want to go home, but God I'm glad to get out of here. It was, it was really, really mixed. I had considered continuing on for a year, and my roommate had already left early. He left three months early. He finally said, I'm, I'm going to get married and I'm a teacher and I got to go find a job. So he actually left early, left the Peace Corps early, and did not attend any of the, any of the end of service or anything. And so I was there for about three or four months, three months by myself.\n\nAnd, uh. I hope to go back and visit them again. I went back and visited them in 1969 because I trained Peace Corps volunteers and trained them both in the United States and in India. And so I got to visit them in 1969. And their eldest daughter Radha had been born by that time, and I took her a doll. She told me later, as an adult with her kids sitting around her, that that doll was the only doll that she ever had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a reason for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a cultural thing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.16757960889031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't, I have no idea. But it was a doll, a talking doll, and you pulled a string on its back and it would say things. And the first time we did that, she screamed bloody murder and threw the doll across the floor. But she, she's very, to this day, she's very attached to that doll. She still has it. And she says it's the only doll she ever had. So. Um. And, oh, and when I visited them in Houston, which was my hometown, what I got to do was to take them around Houston and see and show them where I lived, all the places that I lived, the places that I went to school, showed them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And of course, they learned a lot about me. And we went and visited my mother's grave together. So, again, real family stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Real connection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly an achievement of that whole experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.963977343211454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And of course, they learned a lot about me. And we went and visited my mother's grave together. So, again, real family stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Real connection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly an achievement of that whole experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they've got one daughter living in Houston. She's married to, guess what, an Indian software engineer in Houston. They have another daughter who's studying microbiology at the University of Michigan. And their son, who is in business, lives in Bombay. And I forget what kind of business he is, I think it's something to do with textiles. But he's been accepted at Harvard and Wharton business schools. So he's no, he's not a dumb guy either. And but he's refused to go until he gets a full scholarship. And his father says knowing him, he may wait a couple of years, but he'll end up getting the full scholarship and coming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they're mostly [inaudible]."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.848863714679393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly an achievement of that whole experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they've got one daughter living in Houston. She's married to, guess what, an Indian software engineer in Houston. They have another daughter who's studying microbiology at the University of Michigan. And their son, who is in business, lives in Bombay. And I forget what kind of business he is, I think it's something to do with textiles. But he's been accepted at Harvard and Wharton business schools. So he's no, he's not a dumb guy either. And but he's refused to go until he gets a full scholarship. And his father says knowing him, he may wait a couple of years, but he'll end up getting the full scholarship and coming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they're mostly [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they're all, two of their three kids are living in the States and the other one is coming to go to school. But they'll go back to India ultimately, I think. I think, who knows, who knows. And uh, just trying to think of other, other things about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the end of the tour, did you, you must have felt a great sense of achievement of just having done so much."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.112295904910003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was sort of yes and no. There was so much to do. And I'd wanted to do so much more, but couldn't because things just take time. And I remember every once in a while being just incredibly frustrated and saying, what the hell am I doing here? I'm going to go home, and things are not happening. And then I'd go into this big city and there was a, there was actually a missionary there. Uh, Miss Campbell. I don't even remember her first name. And she always had tea and cookies at 4:00 every day. And I knew that you could combine. You could have a really good tea. She made really good tea. And two cookies, very abstemious. It was very proper. She was born and raised in India, though she was American. The only time she lived in the United States was when she went to college.\n\nAnd I remember saying to her, Miss Campbell, nothing's happening. And she'd go, well, what have you done? And I would say, well, we did this and this and this. And there was one time when she, I said, you know, I really got one of the farmers to use a steel plow. Steel plow rather than a, than a wooden plow. And she said, Reid, you know that that's about 5,000 years of development. So don't put down what you're doing. And she would always kind of set me straight about time, really, and change in India. Like, slow down. Keep the pressure up. But don't be so impatient. You're laying some foundations. And that was, that was a good thing for her to be there. She, I mean, she was a real character."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good thing for you to hear that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That reframe of what you were doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so when you came home, you felt, you felt that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 21.496661611000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so when you came home, you felt, you felt that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I felt, you know, it was like I could have done more. I mean, that's always the case in my life. I always feel like I could have done more. But, you know, and my experience in India got me into really good graduate schools. I ended up getting a National Defense Education Act fellowship to study Hindi to put me through graduate school. I ended up using it, of course, to help train Peace Corps volunteers and going back to India. I also went back to India in 1975 when Mrs. Gandhi was having her emergency, and I thought that they were going to close the country down and I'd never get to see my friends again. And I went back to visit then. That was, that was nice. Then I've not been back since 1975."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Peace Corps service, I got one of my jobs with the Legal Services Corporation because I speak Hindi. Not that I would never, ever use it in that job, but the guy who hired me said he was down between you and two other people. And we started talking about your Peace Corps and your ability to read and write and speak Hindi. And when you wrote my name out in, in, in Devanagari script and I thought this guy's got some ability to think. And of course lawyers like thinkers. And he told me later on, two years later, he says, you got the job because you speak Hindi. Not that it has anything to do with your job because I'd already was up in the finalists anyway. So he used that to make the distinction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you think of other things like that that have influenced your life since Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.897113100000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Peace Corps service, I got one of my jobs with the Legal Services Corporation because I speak Hindi. Not that I would never, ever use it in that job, but the guy who hired me said he was down between you and two other people. And we started talking about your Peace Corps and your ability to read and write and speak Hindi. And when you wrote my name out in, in, in Devanagari script and I thought this guy's got some ability to think. And of course lawyers like thinkers. And he told me later on, two years later, he says, you got the job because you speak Hindi. Not that it has anything to do with your job because I'd already was up in the finalists anyway. So he used that to make the distinction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you think of other things like that that have influenced your life since Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, you know, obviously, I did a lot of work in international, a lot of international work later, and went off to Sudan and worked there with the, with the Geologic Survey and the International Monetary Fund. And I did, I did a lot of work in Pakistan and ended up. Toward my, the end of my tour, I'd go to go back to Pakistan about two months out of every year for about four or five years, two one month trips. And during that time I would do teambuilding courses for Pakistani program leaders and rural development boards of directors and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you call from your hands on experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. Sure. And I went back and I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew how to do it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.07051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. Sure. And I went back and I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew how to do it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And kind of scared the whole time in Pakistan because things were getting rough. Even I had to have a bodyguard every once in a while the last couple of trips in Pakistan. And I went to, I spent most of my time in Quetta, in Peshawar, which are places where Americans are not too welcome today. And, uh, my Urdu, which is the same as Hindi except written differently and pronounced a little bit differently, got good enough for me to begin to really think in or do while I was doing the training. And one time when I stopped, I realized that I was thinking in Urdu and translating into English to Urdu speakers. And I froze and I and I said, I got to tell you what happened. And they laughed and they said, well, just speak Urdu. And I said, it's terrible Urdu. And they said, that's all right, we speak terrible Urdu too. And so I just began, when I thought it in Urdu, I would say it in Urdu along with my English. And so I was known for doing the trainings in Urdu. Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't really, wasn't really in Urdu, it was like 10 percent, 20 percent Urdu. But it was, but it did an awful lot for their acceptance of me and their receptivity to what I had to say. And that was, that was a lot of fun. Other times I use my language is with taxi drivers in New York City because so many of them are Hindus or Sikhs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of connection, that word keeps coming to my mind as I listen to you. Connection with the language, with the people, with this particular family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 9.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How much is? You know, all that kind of, that kind of stuff is what I was teaching them. I mean, they, and they were they were really good at picking up the language. So it was just, just so that they could understand a few words in, not just read the Arabic subtitles, but actually understand the Hindi words. So that was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It kind of pulls together everything that, your entire experience with international languages."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd love to do some more of it. Yeah, I'd love to do some more of it somehow or another. I've thought about going back in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a volunteer. Years, you know, when I quote retire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you go back to India?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd love to do some more of it. Yeah, I'd love to do some more of it somehow or another. I've thought about going back in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a volunteer. Years, you know, when I quote retire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you go back to India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, in a minute. In a minute. I'm trying to think of some way to get back there now in a, in a way that is not just tourist. I mean, it would be great to go back as a tourist and to visit the Dagats. But I would like to go back there with some, some real purpose to, to make the connection again with a group of people, to do some work together. I tried several times earlier in my career to do it. I was, I was actually accepted by the Ford Foundation to do an internship with the Ford Foundation in the Calcutta Metropolitan Planning Office. Because my graduate degree's in city planning. This was right after I was graduating from graduate school and was pretty much ready to go. And the, uh, there were all kinds of riots and Naxalite. Naxalite is a kind of terrorist group that was operating in Bengal at the time.\n\nAnd the head of the foundation operation there was murdered. And so they ended their operations there. And needless to say, I did not go. And about five years later than that, after that, I was going to go to work for CARE in Bengal. And it turns out at that time I was getting ready, really getting ready to go. And my mother was diagnosed with cancer and my father lost his job. And it was the only time that they ever asked me, please don't go so far away. And I ended up making a decision not to go because my parents needed me, basically. And so I stayed. But both of those that were purposeful visits and I'd like to find some other kind of personal. Personal and purposeful visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ways to visit."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a volunteer. Years, you know, when I quote retire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you go back to India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, in a minute. In a minute. I'm trying to think of some way to get back there now in a, in a way that is not just tourist. I mean, it would be great to go back as a tourist and to visit the Dagats. But I would like to go back there with some, some real purpose to, to make the connection again with a group of people, to do some work together. I tried several times earlier in my career to do it. I was, I was actually accepted by the Ford Foundation to do an internship with the Ford Foundation in the Calcutta Metropolitan Planning Office. Because my graduate degree's in city planning. This was right after I was graduating from graduate school and was pretty much ready to go. And the, uh, there were all kinds of riots and Naxalite. Naxalite is a kind of terrorist group that was operating in Bengal at the time.\n\nAnd the head of the foundation operation there was murdered. And so they ended their operations there. And needless to say, I did not go. And about five years later than that, after that, I was going to go to work for CARE in Bengal. And it turns out at that time I was getting ready, really getting ready to go. And my mother was diagnosed with cancer and my father lost his job. And it was the only time that they ever asked me, please don't go so far away. And I ended up making a decision not to go because my parents needed me, basically. And so I stayed. But both of those that were purposeful visits and I'd like to find some other kind of personal. Personal and purposeful visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ways to visit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For an amount of time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, in a minute. In a minute. I'm trying to think of some way to get back there now in a, in a way that is not just tourist. I mean, it would be great to go back as a tourist and to visit the Dagats. But I would like to go back there with some, some real purpose to, to make the connection again with a group of people, to do some work together. I tried several times earlier in my career to do it. I was, I was actually accepted by the Ford Foundation to do an internship with the Ford Foundation in the Calcutta Metropolitan Planning Office. Because my graduate degree's in city planning. This was right after I was graduating from graduate school and was pretty much ready to go. And the, uh, there were all kinds of riots and Naxalite. Naxalite is a kind of terrorist group that was operating in Bengal at the time.\n\nAnd the head of the foundation operation there was murdered. And so they ended their operations there. And needless to say, I did not go. And about five years later than that, after that, I was going to go to work for CARE in Bengal. And it turns out at that time I was getting ready, really getting ready to go. And my mother was diagnosed with cancer and my father lost his job. And it was the only time that they ever asked me, please don't go so far away. And I ended up making a decision not to go because my parents needed me, basically. And so I stayed. But both of those that were purposeful visits and I'd like to find some other kind of personal. Personal and purposeful visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ways to visit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For an amount of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be nice. It would be nice. I mean, given the way we live now and what we have here, it would be difficult to do that unless we just uprooted ourselves and moved off. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, this has been very interesting and heartfelt."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For an amount of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be nice. It would be nice. I mean, given the way we live now and what we have here, it would be difficult to do that unless we just uprooted ourselves and moved off. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, this has been very interesting and heartfelt."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a very unique experience. Very unique experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00193:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be nice. It would be nice. I mean, given the way we live now and what we have here, it would be difficult to do that unless we just uprooted ourselves and moved off. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, this has been very interesting and heartfelt."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a very unique experience. Very unique experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I think you've said it all."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 43.387326357000624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think, I mean, I think in the early sixties, people knew about the Peace Corps because it was brand new and it was celebrated when, um, in the president's inauguration speech. Ask not what you, what your country can do for you, what you can do for your country, and then followed up by Sargent Shriver and the organization of the Peace Corps. Um, I, there was probably somebody coming to campus about it, but I don't remember that particularly, like being recruited. And so I don't, nobody tapped me on the shoulder and said, why don't you do this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What was your reaction when you were accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was ready to go. I think it was, it was July in the District. It was hot. It smelled. There used to be a glue factory down on the Potomac. And with the 98 percent humidity, that smell would just encapsulate everything. And there was very little air conditioning in the sixties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, July was the lunar landing. Woodstock was coming up. So it was a good time to take off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your friends and family think of your decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.541473730000696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was ready to go. I think it was, it was July in the District. It was hot. It smelled. There used to be a glue factory down on the Potomac. And with the 98 percent humidity, that smell would just encapsulate everything. And there was very little air conditioning in the sixties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, July was the lunar landing. Woodstock was coming up. So it was a good time to take off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your friends and family think of your decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember I think I called home on every Sunday, as you required to call home every Sunday evening. And I think I was suggesting that I'd like to go to the festival at Woodstock, and I dropped this little thing about then going to Honduras, and my parents said, you have to come home right now. And so I, you know, so I somehow, two people, someone had to come take my space in the house I was renting. And I packed my little Karmann Ghia and drove up 95 to Long Island and negotiated everything. I don't think they were particularly, they certainly weren't angry. I think they were permissive. I think they were a little bit worried.\n\nI had one friend who popped up. Tegucigalpa. He was the only person I knew who knew the capital of Honduras. I didn't even know the capital of Honduras. And my best friend from high school, her fiancée, was in Brazil, in the Peace Corps. So people knew about it. So I think overall, it was pretty much approval."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It says, how did you prepare yourself and others for entering into two years of Peace Corps service? So I'm thinking of what I went through with my daughter went in the Peace Corps, and there was a whole bunch of things we had to buy and everything."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 54.63850991769642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't, I mean, I think there were some things that we had to buy. I think we, I had a little suitcase for the plane and then my college luggage, which was that old, you know, the soft sided luggage that was a Scotch plaid on the outside and vinyl. But then we had a pack a trunk, so like a steamer trunk that would go later. And I think I put a couple of nursing uniforms and my nursing shoes, my uniform, my cap. I think there was something about there wouldn't be any sanitary supplies available. And, you know, I think tee, you know, T-shirts, shorts. I think I packed a very nice dress and maybe heels, my top siders, which molded in the humidity of Central America. That's, that's what I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Is there any other area of preparation? Did you have very close friends that you had to say goodbye to, to travel to see, you know, before you left or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just, so my house, my housemates in, my housemates in D.C., and the people I met there and my family. I don't remember any big party or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had said you wanted to be in Central or South America. What about Honduras? Is that a country that you already had in mind as part of that or it just?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not very much. I mean, I think the interesting thing is when I was in high school, I was on the debate team and we had, one of the years, the topic was, should there be a commonwealth of a common market among the states in Central America like there was in Europe. And so we went from school to school debating that topic. And sometimes you'd be on the positive side, sometimes on the negative. So I knew a little bit about Central America, but not very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had been given that advice by someone to go there, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 57.376122130773794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just, so my house, my housemates in, my housemates in D.C., and the people I met there and my family. I don't remember any big party or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had said you wanted to be in Central or South America. What about Honduras? Is that a country that you already had in mind as part of that or it just?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not very much. I mean, I think the interesting thing is when I was in high school, I was on the debate team and we had, one of the years, the topic was, should there be a commonwealth of a common market among the states in Central America like there was in Europe. And so we went from school to school debating that topic. And sometimes you'd be on the positive side, sometimes on the negative. So I knew a little bit about Central America, but not very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had been given that advice by someone to go there, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And, you know, unfortunately, when we were in college, we, our curriculum was so packed, we didn't have any language courses. But I had four years of Latin and two of French in high school. So I don't think I could have predicted how important learning Spanish would be for me and for health care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where and how were you trained to prepare you for your assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.48576890817499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was a small high school. And I remembered her name from, she would be called to the office. So, um, and they taught us a lot too, about, they had been there about a year and a half then. Because they both spoke so well, they were deeply involved in the community, they were doing a great job. Joe took us around to the fincas and we saw the coffee beans being roasted and we went to the hospital and we came back, finished up. We were sworn in in Tegucigalpa. And I think that was the last time any of us wore our dresses or the guys wore their sport shirts and ties. That was sort of the end of those clothes. And then and then we got our assignments. And Joanne and I were assigned to gather to be in San Pedro Sula, which is a city in the north. For a long time was, in the last couple of decades, has been the highest rated murder city in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, gee."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it wasn't then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Yeah. Um, so let me ask you some questions. Did you think the language training was adequate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, that was really intensive. I mean, I think one of the things was we couldn't figure out, like we didn't see anything written. And so unlike French or some of the other languages, it's all phonetic. But we had to be told it was, I had to be told it was phonetic. Don't worry about, you know, reading it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Interesting. And so in general, what would you say the strengths and weaknesses were of your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.0952987868611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it wasn't then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Yeah. Um, so let me ask you some questions. Did you think the language training was adequate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, that was really intensive. I mean, I think one of the things was we couldn't figure out, like we didn't see anything written. And so unlike French or some of the other languages, it's all phonetic. But we had to be told it was, I had to be told it was phonetic. Don't worry about, you know, reading it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Interesting. And so in general, what would you say the strengths and weaknesses were of your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, you know, the big thing now is interprofessional team development and working in teams and team cohesion and that. I think we learned that there in a way that was partially may have been unplanned, but then I don't have a training manual, in that because we were isolated, right? We were taken away from all other inputs. We didn't have cell phones. We didn't have, there was no TV. I don't know that the radio was on that much, but we all must, I think we all must have had transistor radios. But then we couldn't speak the language, so we wouldn't know, you know, what they were saying. And so that was part of it. We were put into small groups, but we, I think there were people that were training to go to Bolivia and training to go to Panama.\n\nThere was some snideness, like, oh, you should go to a real country. Honduras is not that big a place or. And so we became proud that we were going to Honduras. There was enough pushing and pulling to, um, we formed a very tightly knit group that ended up supporting each other and staying in touch 50 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that is amazing. Were people deactivated [deselected], as they sometimes say, or asked to leave the training process?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 27.834220606166717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but it sort of kind of stopped me from doing things, so I switched jobs into a public health assignment with Caritas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was the, um, we had a wonderful, wonderful local director. We were called the north coast, that region of Honduras. And Andy Ruby was Honduran. He was completely bilingual. He had a lovely family. And he, uh, he, when I told him how unhappy I was, he helped me get an assignment with Caritas. And that was the Latin American version of Catholic Relief Services. They were largely funded by the Christian Democrats in Europe. And they were, they were trying to make the organization of religion take care of people and bring food to them and bring health care to them and literacy, more than previous missionary experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they had a program where they had community health workers who went from town to town, very organized, like a network. I mean, they were growing a network. It was very well obviously being established of, um, of delivering surplus food, like the, remember the CARE posters? You know, food that came from CARE, and we would go out into the communities and we would deliver that. The community health workers would teach the moms how to cook with that food, the cereals and grains and stuff like that. They would do what they called charlas, which are little talks about health. We had, I think, three Mickey Mouse movies about vaccinations and clean water and washing that we would show outside at night, you know, on a reel with a generator, because those towns usually turned off their electricity at night.\n\nSo I really, I really, really liked that. I liked going out into what we call the campo and visiting different towns. I've got to go all the way out to the Mosquitia and the coast along the, towards the Nicaraguan border. And there were nuns and priests that came from Spain and spent their entire lives there. And that's what they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Now, this was still under the Peace Corps umbrella?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 28.12650288911758, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was still under the Peace Corps. But, you know, these folks were very, very liberal. I mean, I remember being in one small town and along the coast of, the north coast of Honduras, the ethnic group is, uh, is mostly Black people who escaped slavery, either in Jamaica or some of the Caribbean islands. It's called Garifuna. And they have their own language and their own culture. They have some English and there most of the men worked in the shipping. Don't forget, it was a banana republic and the north coast was where the ships used to dock. And so the priest actually asked me if I would talk to a group of the women one night about birth control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, in 1970, there weren't as many options as there are today. And these poor women really didn't have any options. I mean, we could talk about, you know, rhythm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they didn't have access to diaphragms. They didn't have access to oral pills. I think, and actually, one of the community health workers told me that in El Salvador, they were testing this shot that would last for three months. Well, that turned out to be the early research on Depo-Provera, which became a very common type of birth control that we used in the United States for a long time. It was one of the first long acting birth control. But who knew that probably unaware people were being tested in Latin America?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Yeah. I've always wondered about that. What were your living arrangements through this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 24.86488736504469, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when we first got to San Pedro, it was by word of mouth. We'd find a place and people recommended that I go to, um, visit a family called Cisneros, who lived near one of the public schools and in a nice neighborhood, but not a fancy neighborhood. And Beatrice Cisneros was probably in her late fifties, early sixties, and she was called Dona Ticha. And she had, she lived there with her son and his wife and granddaughter. She had another son or two who had emigrated to New Orleans. A lot of people went to New Orleans from San Pedro. And she had a two story house. And upstairs they, um, they rented me a bedroom that had a separate entrance and a set of stairs.\n\nI can't remember what my rent was, but I, it included two meals a day or two or three meals a day. So I think I gained about 10 pounds or more because I loved the food and the sour cream that, the crema went on everything and the tortillas were all handmade and it was very good. There was a single bathroom downstairs and it sort of had been retrofitted into the house. So it was like wood, like scrap wood, and there were chinks in it. And I'd go and there was a pile of newspaper squares to use for toilet paper. And I remember the little girl, she must have been about nine. She would peep through and try and watch me, like how does the gringa go to the bathroom? And her prior tenants had been Mormon missionaries, so she wasn't used to my going out as much as, because the missionaries didn't go out at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't go out at all."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did everything two by two. But she was lovely and my mother actually wrote a letter and had a friend translate it and wrote to Dona Ticha saying how much she appreciated her taking me in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, isn't that cute?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Isn't that nice?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very nice. Yeah. And your typical workday and leisure day?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.18320818338299, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did everything two by two. But she was lovely and my mother actually wrote a letter and had a friend translate it and wrote to Dona Ticha saying how much she appreciated her taking me in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, isn't that cute?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Isn't that nice?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very nice. Yeah. And your typical workday and leisure day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the typical workday was somewhat different from the U.S., where we went to work from 7:00 to 3:00 or 8:00 to 4:00, because the day was definitely divided into parts and most people went to work for 4 hours, then came home and had their main meal and siesta time, and then went back 2 or 3 hours later. So that was a whole different thing to get used to. It was a long way to go to work, when I worked for Caritas, it was on the other side of the city, so it was a couple of bus rides or spending my money on a taxi to go back and forth that distance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to go back to your place where you were living?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 25.75912020375888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Isn't that nice?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very nice. Yeah. And your typical workday and leisure day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the typical workday was somewhat different from the U.S., where we went to work from 7:00 to 3:00 or 8:00 to 4:00, because the day was definitely divided into parts and most people went to work for 4 hours, then came home and had their main meal and siesta time, and then went back 2 or 3 hours later. So that was a whole different thing to get used to. It was a long way to go to work, when I worked for Caritas, it was on the other side of the city, so it was a couple of bus rides or spending my money on a taxi to go back and forth that distance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to go back to your place where you were living?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, but there was no place to eat there. And everybody else went home. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your relationship with country nationals and other PCs or PC staff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.110010675471008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think the first vacation I took was, um, I went with another volunteer that we were just friends, we weren't involved, and he was finishing up his service. So we, um, and a lot of people seemed to, they didn't want to go home right away. So he was going to go all the way down around South America and then home. And so I said I'd go partway. So we went and we went together as far south as Bogota, and we started by hitchhiking on the Pan-American Highway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I think at some point we had to buy a plane ticket. Maybe we took it all the way to Panama, but you couldn't get from Panama to Barranquilla, Colombia, by land. It was closed and you couldn't get a visa to get into Colombia without having a ticket out of Colombia. They were onto us gringos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't want any illegal immigrants coming from the north. So we had to buy a ticket out. Now for me that was okay because I was going back north, but Cavall had to buy a ticket he wasn't going to use I think. We went to Barranquilla and there's a colonial city on the north coast to Medellin, which was then a very, very pretty city and still is probably. But it was an area that was totally managed by the drug cartels two decades ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I recognize the names, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.57614633123595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then to Bogota. And I do have a strong memory of taking a bus from Medellin to Bogota over land all night long, filled with people and roosters and chickens. They weren't all on the roof either, some inside, and just everybody slept next to each other, you know, it was all squished in and, um. But we got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was a vacation. Another one, um, the Christmas of 1970. So a year later than our swearing in. A lot of us went home for Christmas and I did. I think we had two or three weeks. One couple that had developed a relationship, they went to see her dad in Connecticut that they were going to get married. And he insisted, well, they were going to do it right then. They weren't going back to Honduras unmarried. So all of a sudden there was a marriage in Connecticut and everybody got together for that. And then we went back and I think that was the last vacation. But weekends were time off, you know, it wasn't. And Peace Corps brought us together, I think, for July 4th parties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the middle of the country, a place called Comayagua, which was the old capital. And maybe one or two group meetings that we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um. You. Did you extend for a third year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.751273701373277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was a vacation. Another one, um, the Christmas of 1970. So a year later than our swearing in. A lot of us went home for Christmas and I did. I think we had two or three weeks. One couple that had developed a relationship, they went to see her dad in Connecticut that they were going to get married. And he insisted, well, they were going to do it right then. They weren't going back to Honduras unmarried. So all of a sudden there was a marriage in Connecticut and everybody got together for that. And then we went back and I think that was the last vacation. But weekends were time off, you know, it wasn't. And Peace Corps brought us together, I think, for July 4th parties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the middle of the country, a place called Comayagua, which was the old capital. And maybe one or two group meetings that we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um. You. Did you extend for a third year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. So it's just between the first and second year you made this job change?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.056970779303642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the middle of the country, a place called Comayagua, which was the old capital. And maybe one or two group meetings that we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um. You. Did you extend for a third year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. So it's just between the first and second year you made this job change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So your living changed accordingly?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.786383678152642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So your living changed accordingly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, I don't know that I, I was still in the same city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I didn't have to move. I mean, I moved a couple of times just to be in a. One time I live with an Australian nurse and a Honduran nurse in an apartment, and because Joanne didn't want to leave the family she was with, because we were all encouraged to stay with the family as long as possible. And she was better at that than I was. But, um, and then. And but that was still in San Pedro. My mother came down to visit and, um, oh, another time one of my high school friends came down and we did take a side trip to Guatemala. And I went to Copán. I went to Copán with someone from the medical team, from the Duke group, on a motorcycle, which was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.207092975725159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, I don't know that I, I was still in the same city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I didn't have to move. I mean, I moved a couple of times just to be in a. One time I live with an Australian nurse and a Honduran nurse in an apartment, and because Joanne didn't want to leave the family she was with, because we were all encouraged to stay with the family as long as possible. And she was better at that than I was. But, um, and then. And but that was still in San Pedro. My mother came down to visit and, um, oh, another time one of my high school friends came down and we did take a side trip to Guatemala. And I went to Copán. I went to Copán with someone from the medical team, from the Duke group, on a motorcycle, which was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know, that was interesting. And but Copán is absolutely incredibly a beautiful, spiritual place that is a jewel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Um. What do you think were your main accomplishments looking back at these two different assignments?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.340319582613386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Growing up a little bit, I think. I think I grew up a lot. And I think one thing about learning how to speak Spanish is that learning to listen, because you have to really pay attention when someone was talking to you to kind of get what it was. And I think it taught me how to pay attention when someone was talking to me. It made me a better nurse. The language is an incredible gift because every job I had up until almost the last one I got because I was bilingual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when I came to Boston, I got a job at what was then Harvard Community Health Plan in their Mission Hill clinic, because it was a mixed community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I worked in the Point neighborhood in Salem, and I spent 20 years in Chelsea. And I, the upside of it was that I learned that I could do things to help the people that came from those countries more than I could do anything to help when I was a young person and as a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. That's interesting. Um. Do you have any regrets?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.555993940484752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, I'm sorry we've lost a few people that have died. And it's always sorry. It's always sad to hear that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I think we were so close in, like when you're a real minority, you stick together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I don't regret that I did it. I regret that I wasn't better prepared, that I couldn't have done more in terms of like my friends that had more experience became ER nurses or, you know, you know, that could help more with the skills than I had. But I always have liked working in the community so I think that was probably me anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It was your strength anyway. Let's see. And I think you just explained, but you may have something to add. How did your Peace Corps experience influence your plans for the future?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.72888215609417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I think we were so close in, like when you're a real minority, you stick together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I don't regret that I did it. I regret that I wasn't better prepared, that I couldn't have done more in terms of like my friends that had more experience became ER nurses or, you know, you know, that could help more with the skills than I had. But I always have liked working in the community so I think that was probably me anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It was your strength anyway. Let's see. And I think you just explained, but you may have something to add. How did your Peace Corps experience influence your plans for the future?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think. Well, I think I felt like I had traveled, so I accomplished that goal. I didn't turn into being someone who would always travel, like some people go on and work in international organizations and stuff. I wasn't particularly interested in doing that, so I was pretty much ready to, when I came home, I looked at jobs in D.C. Peace Corps then had like a re-immersion program for a week or two in D.C. I remember going with some other people, and it was down in DuPont Circle, and it was two weeks of, one or two? I think it was two weeks of cultural immersion. And between 1969 and 1971, the U.S. had changed tremendously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness, that's interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.717259473380205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, people I knew in college that would never touch marijuana, thought those people were awful, were now offering someone a joint. But beyond that, I mean, the, one of the things they had us to do was spend a shift in a D.C. police car. So this other former volunteer and I get, oh, Jane from Brooklyn, I think we were together, get in the back of the car and the police had never heard of the Peace Corps. So there's a divergence there, right? And they were going out into the District, into projects, doing domestic violence calls or, I mean, at one point, the fellow in the front seat said, I think you better get down under the seats and I thought, oh my God. I mean, it was more dangerous than anything I'd been involved in in Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that kind of thing. People came and gave us talks about LGBTQ issues, which nobody talked about before. I mean, nobody talked about gender orientation in that I remember, certainly not formally, and those kinds of things. And when I finally decided to come to Boston, when the new emerging field was becoming a nurse practitioner, so I was able to shift into that and become one of the early nurse practitioners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And you mentioned the language connection, which is very important. Overall, how do you assess your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps? Which is to provide technical assistance where required, when requested, to promote better understanding of Americans, or to promote better understanding of other people by Americans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, uh, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but I don't remember anybody ever mentioning, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it's very new."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 23.3996502453559, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And because the veterans would say, don't turn around, don't say anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, um, and that, we could present ourselves as being men and women who had a little bit of earnestness about us might have been helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think in terms of understanding other people, that, um, as I said about my experience in Puerto Rico, never experiencing the, the hospitality and the friendliness of people who are Latino and never experiencing also just the poverty that existed in Honduras or the poorness of health care or the illiteracy. That still gives me incredible respect for the people that struggle so hard to get here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Have you continued any kind of involvement with your country of service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.24648178439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think in terms of understanding other people, that, um, as I said about my experience in Puerto Rico, never experiencing the, the hospitality and the friendliness of people who are Latino and never experiencing also just the poverty that existed in Honduras or the poorness of health care or the illiteracy. That still gives me incredible respect for the people that struggle so hard to get here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Have you continued any kind of involvement with your country of service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not directly with Honduras. I did go, I went to Honduras sometime around 2002. My daughter had decided that she wanted to go live on Utila, which is one of the Bay Islands, for a couple of years. So like my mother, I went down to find out what was going on. And at that point we were told, frankly, not to go into San Pedro, that it was very, very dangerous. I had, I worked with a woman in Chelsea who was Honduran, whose husband had gone home after one of the hurricanes to help his family, and he'd been robbed and shot. So I thought if they were going to do that to him, I didn't want to be there for that.\n\nSo I've worked a little bit with the Massachusetts, uh, very little bit with the MIRA group [Massachusetts Immigrant and Refugee Advocacy Coalition]. But in the communities that I worked in, like in Salem, I helped to train hospital workers on using interpreters and a program for kids in the high school. I've worked on developing curricula for, mostly for immigrants, I would say, more than going back. And I haven't done any kind of medical trips."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm still involved with my group, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Or contact with people from that country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.057384919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm still involved with my group, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Or contact with people from that country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, lots of contact with people from Honduras. I mean, the Honduras and the people that, so like the different communities, like there are a lot of Dominicans in Salem. There were in Chelsea, there were people who started coming from Puerto Rico maybe in the fifties. And then in the nineties there were big groups that came from Central America. There would be, and then Chelsea is a gateway city. There'd be people who came from the Balkans and people who came from other places of war."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the city is very used to new immigrants, but there would be issues among the immigrant groups. Like, we're citizens, you're not, stuff like that. Awareness of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh dear. Have you been involved with third goal activities? That would be the NPCA, I assume, and their."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 21.0584999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the city is very used to new immigrants, but there would be issues among the immigrant groups. Like, we're citizens, you're not, stuff like that. Awareness of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh dear. Have you been involved with third goal activities? That would be the NPCA, I assume, and their."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other people by Americans. No, I think that in the, if I was the only one in a clinical group that spoke Spanish, I had to explain that role, what it meant to that person. Like for a long time, I had a patient from Mission Hill who was Guatemalan, and she had mitral valve problems, heart valve problems. And I think in the time that I knew her, she had three valve replacements. Now, this was in the early stages of valve replacements when they were using pig valves and stuff like that. But she was getting them done at the Brigham, and the physicians would get so upset when she got pregnant. And that was like culturally not feasible for her to say no, in a way. I mean, having a good conversation with her husband might have helped or might not have, but it wasn't like she was trying to sabotage their hard work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think you become an ambassador for the people that you're trying to help and trying to get your colleagues to do that too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And third goal here is capitalized. But there's all the work you did by speaking Spanish and being involved in those projects to me would also include that. What has been the effect of your PC service on your life?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.306790000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think you become an ambassador for the people that you're trying to help and trying to get your colleagues to do that too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And third goal here is capitalized. But there's all the work you did by speaking Spanish and being involved in those projects to me would also include that. What has been the effect of your PC service on your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, other than all the work things I talked about. So the irony. So one of my Peace Corps friends grew up in Reading, Massachusetts. And when I came to Boston, I, um, I came, I stayed with two of my Georgetown friends that had been living here a couple of years. And Tom invited me and them to go to the St. Patrick's Day parade. I think at this point, I already had gotten a job and I was to start like the third Monday in March or something like that. And so all the time we've been in the Peace Corps, it was the beaches is never as good as they are in Cape Cod. You know, life is never as good as it is in Massachusetts. And St. Patrick's Day in New York is nothing compared to Boston.\n\nNow, I was very skeptical of this, but so I went and I took the T. I think I, they lived, he and his friends lived in Allston. So I went to Allston and we took the T to South Boston and we went to this German bar in South Boston called Amrheins. And little did I know that the tradition had nothing to do with the parade. Everybody spent the day inside the bar drinking. The cop at the door was named John Law, and one of. I met my husband that day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he had grown up with this fellow, my Peace Corps friend. So that was a very huge influence over my life. We've now been married 45 years. So that, that's one huge thing. And I think being aware of how the rest of the world works. And with a little maybe more humility than I had when I was, before I did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Well, those are the questions on this."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.5631, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, other than all the work things I talked about. So the irony. So one of my Peace Corps friends grew up in Reading, Massachusetts. And when I came to Boston, I, um, I came, I stayed with two of my Georgetown friends that had been living here a couple of years. And Tom invited me and them to go to the St. Patrick's Day parade. I think at this point, I already had gotten a job and I was to start like the third Monday in March or something like that. And so all the time we've been in the Peace Corps, it was the beaches is never as good as they are in Cape Cod. You know, life is never as good as it is in Massachusetts. And St. Patrick's Day in New York is nothing compared to Boston.\n\nNow, I was very skeptical of this, but so I went and I took the T. I think I, they lived, he and his friends lived in Allston. So I went to Allston and we took the T to South Boston and we went to this German bar in South Boston called Amrheins. And little did I know that the tradition had nothing to do with the parade. Everybody spent the day inside the bar drinking. The cop at the door was named John Law, and one of. I met my husband that day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he had grown up with this fellow, my Peace Corps friend. So that was a very huge influence over my life. We've now been married 45 years. So that, that's one huge thing. And I think being aware of how the rest of the world works. And with a little maybe more humility than I had when I was, before I did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Well, those are the questions on this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unless there's a specific topic that you would be interested in pursuing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.959, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he had grown up with this fellow, my Peace Corps friend. So that was a very huge influence over my life. We've now been married 45 years. So that, that's one huge thing. And I think being aware of how the rest of the world works. And with a little maybe more humility than I had when I was, before I did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Well, those are the questions on this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unless there's a specific topic that you would be interested in pursuing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like I've talked a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I think you've done a fabulous job. Much more detail than I would do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.51, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unless there's a specific topic that you would be interested in pursuing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like I've talked a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I think you've done a fabulous job. Much more detail than I would do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any health issues while you're in the Peace Corps yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 13.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like I've talked a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I think you've done a fabulous job. Much more detail than I would do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any health issues while you're in the Peace Corps yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I got a lot of rashes and things like that, skin things. We had a great doctor, Dr. Arias, Luis Bueso Arias his name was, and his family was some of the leaders in the Democratic, or the more liberal parties in Honduras at that time. And there was. So when I was working for Caritas, we had this white jeep pickup with a standard shift, you know, on the wheel. So it was the letter H. So I had to learn how to drive that. And so it was not uncommon to ride in the back of the jeep. And one day we were in the city and the fellow who was driving ran through a stop sign and a policeman on a motorcycle hit the back of the jeep. And so I was thrown out of it and landed on the ground.\n\nNow, I wasn't knocked out or anything, but I was like, oh, I was abraded and bleeding all over. And I think I kind of retreated to like a third grade level and we went to the doctor's office and Dr. Arias calmed me down. He sent me to a private clinic. We didn't have to go to the dreaded public hospital. And I spent a couple of days there getting taken care of. And I think it was probably just what I needed, but I didn't have anything serious wrong with me. I don't remember many people having that happen, um, so that was my experience of health care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your contact with home? You talked about calling once a week when you're in training, but did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00092:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that was their plane, you know, and it was just like, oh yeah, they don't, you know, it was, it sort of. It made you think about the United States in a different way. One of the saddest days was the day of Kent State when we heard about the murders at Kent State, and we thought about how horrible things were at home. That that could have been us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we weren't that divorced from politics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Um. Let's see. Any other topics? It definitely seemed to fit in with your life. That's what my reaction was. Um. Okay. So I assume we can."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, complete this."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00635:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 52.090541161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. When I went to JSC—I say went to. I was a JSC employee. I think early on when we decided to have a Production Ops [Operations] office and we knew production would be at Kennedy, Skip Hatfield, our Program Manager at the time, wanted to make sure that the person leading production really was accountable to the program. So, I rebadged from a KSC employee to a Johnson employee, but I actually remained living in Florida. I did that right up through the cancelation of Constellation. At that timeframe there was a person in the reverse situation who was a KSC employee who had lived his whole life at Johnson who was supporting the Ground Ops Program at the time. What they had us do was do a badge swap, where I got a KSC badge back and the person in Houston got a JSC badge just in case the programs got canceled so we weren’t going to have to move around.\\n\\n Of course after Orion came back after Constellation, I had a lot of discussions with Mark Geyer at the time about whether he felt the need for me to rebadge, and he didn’t, so I continued to do the same job, just with a KSC badge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is when you became Manager of Production Operations at KSC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yes, when I got my JSC badge that first time was when I became the Manager of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just the badge switch then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was just a badge switch. So I’ve had that position both as a JSC and KSC employee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned, I think in May 2011 they announced the MPCV [Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle], which became Orion, so that work again changed. I know like you said there was talk of using it for different things, and then it finally jelled into one vehicle that could be used for multiple things. If you want to talk about just that time period once we knew we were going to have Orion and up through the ability to fly that EFT-1 mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.029679415053792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, because presumably, with a contractor, you have an award fee and those kinds of things, and so you can look for innovation. Of course, the trick is to get the NASA people not to try to tell the contractors how to do it, but just be able to understand what is needed well enough to be able to describe what is needed, not how to do it. So I suppose that was always the balance. Balancing what NASA needed, what kind of core skills NASA needed, and doing it the most effective way within the boundaries that NASA's operating under."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were certainly thrown many avenues to go. Did you have any regrets at any point in time that you came to Lancaster instead of going to Washington?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Washington?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t you want to work on your master’s up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. That's right. Well, I did get the master's eventually. But no, I have absolutely no regrets. When I first went to NASA I knew nothing about NASA. I just thought, okay, I'm going to work for the government and that'll be good for a year or so. Because I thought of the government as something like the post office. Not to pick on the post office, but at the time, I thought, well, you work with these gray file cabinets and that's it. But it was always very exciting and stimulating and really, really kept me busy, too.\\n\\n I was mentioning I played bridge with Harriet Smith when I was a computer programmer because we actually took lunch breaks [then], but not for the last twenty years. I mean, you just do things all the time [as a supervisor]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And just thinking about the social differences between twenty years ago, or during those twenty years that, for instance, you would take lunch and play bridge. Now people don't play cards at lunch."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.588532683393105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Washington?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t you want to work on your master’s up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. That's right. Well, I did get the master's eventually. But no, I have absolutely no regrets. When I first went to NASA I knew nothing about NASA. I just thought, okay, I'm going to work for the government and that'll be good for a year or so. Because I thought of the government as something like the post office. Not to pick on the post office, but at the time, I thought, well, you work with these gray file cabinets and that's it. But it was always very exciting and stimulating and really, really kept me busy, too.\\n\\n I was mentioning I played bridge with Harriet Smith when I was a computer programmer because we actually took lunch breaks [then], but not for the last twenty years. I mean, you just do things all the time [as a supervisor]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And just thinking about the social differences between twenty years ago, or during those twenty years that, for instance, you would take lunch and play bridge. Now people don't play cards at lunch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think all those are gone, and at that time, I think, down in flight ops [operations] they had a Hearts game at lunch. It was all part of it. They had a [summer] NASA picnic and I think they still do but I don't think it's the same bonding thing it was then. Used to have a yearly Christmas dance and I don't think they do that every year now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it more of a family-type atmosphere during that time period?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.209480759325672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. That's right. Well, I did get the master's eventually. But no, I have absolutely no regrets. When I first went to NASA I knew nothing about NASA. I just thought, okay, I'm going to work for the government and that'll be good for a year or so. Because I thought of the government as something like the post office. Not to pick on the post office, but at the time, I thought, well, you work with these gray file cabinets and that's it. But it was always very exciting and stimulating and really, really kept me busy, too.\\n\\n I was mentioning I played bridge with Harriet Smith when I was a computer programmer because we actually took lunch breaks [then], but not for the last twenty years. I mean, you just do things all the time [as a supervisor]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And just thinking about the social differences between twenty years ago, or during those twenty years that, for instance, you would take lunch and play bridge. Now people don't play cards at lunch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think all those are gone, and at that time, I think, down in flight ops [operations] they had a Hearts game at lunch. It was all part of it. They had a [summer] NASA picnic and I think they still do but I don't think it's the same bonding thing it was then. Used to have a yearly Christmas dance and I don't think they do that every year now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it more of a family-type atmosphere during that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, funding was all NASA and there was not as much turnover then. Now it's not all NASA. There's lots of contractors, too, and they're also coming to these same [functions], which is fine, but there's more turnover, too, because contracts change and a lot of people continue, but there's a lot of different people who don't. Even pilots change. Various pilots have changed. Are you going to talk to Marta [Bohn-] Meyer?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We hope to at some point."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.899423065917414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think all those are gone, and at that time, I think, down in flight ops [operations] they had a Hearts game at lunch. It was all part of it. They had a [summer] NASA picnic and I think they still do but I don't think it's the same bonding thing it was then. Used to have a yearly Christmas dance and I don't think they do that every year now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it more of a family-type atmosphere during that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, funding was all NASA and there was not as much turnover then. Now it's not all NASA. There's lots of contractors, too, and they're also coming to these same [functions], which is fine, but there's more turnover, too, because contracts change and a lot of people continue, but there's a lot of different people who don't. Even pilots change. Various pilots have changed. Are you going to talk to Marta [Bohn-] Meyer?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We hope to at some point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because there are some people who have really caused an impact over the years. I've seen their role change a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it's another change for you, where I imagine you had mostly male pilots and now you're able to work with—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.554914517686015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, funding was all NASA and there was not as much turnover then. Now it's not all NASA. There's lots of contractors, too, and they're also coming to these same [functions], which is fine, but there's more turnover, too, because contracts change and a lot of people continue, but there's a lot of different people who don't. Even pilots change. Various pilots have changed. Are you going to talk to Marta [Bohn-] Meyer?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We hope to at some point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because there are some people who have really caused an impact over the years. I've seen their role change a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it's another change for you, where I imagine you had mostly male pilots and now you're able to work with—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They still have only male pilots, test pilots, but Marta is their supervisor. She's a pilot. She flew or does fly the SR-71. Actually, [the SR-71 is] inactive now, but [Marta flew] as a flight test engineer, not as the primary pilot. But she is a pilot personally for pleasure, but she's not a test pilot. Could be a flight test engineer. I'm not putting her down. She's outstanding, and she's been everywhere. And people like Harriet Smith, who became the first program manager.\\n\\n In my area, it wasn't nearly as innovative. I mean, computer programmers. It was an area for women that had already been established somehow. But [when] Harriet became program manager, there were all men before that. So we have, I believe—I don't know exactly what the mixture is out there now, but I know Marta is probably our most accomplished female."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We hope to get to her. Part of our project is based on funding and the direction on this project is given through the history office at Headquarters, but we always give them suggestions and hopefully they'll march on and do more."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.381227047580268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they probably have a lot of her history anyway because she's been a poster girl, and rightly so. She's very, very effective with young people. I'm involved with the American Association of University Women and also the junior college now. They have a science odyssey in January and a special program for sixth, seventh, and eighth graders, and Marta has always been the featured motivational speaker, and it's terrific.\\n\\n And a lot of the Dryden folk come out, like people from the range come out and they fly a mission and they set up a control center at the college so the kids can talk to the pilots and they see what he's doing and talk to him and ask him why he's doing this and that and the other thing, so it's pretty neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What else do you do? You mentioned you were consulting for some other companies as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. That's just some this year. It's just a little bit of consulting. I haven't generally been doing that. What I do is I work part-time at the college, teach English as a second language, which is a complete change. Yes, it is, and I really enjoy it. I admire the—this is all adults, these are all adult immigrants. Terrific work ethics. These people have worked so hard. They've raised a family. They have kids, the kids are already fully bilingual and now it's their turn. Anyway, I enjoy that. I've been doing that for five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been back to Michigan very often since you left the very small town of a thousand that's still a thousand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still have my mother there and one of my sisters and a brother, so I go back at least once a year, sometimes twice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a climate difference from there to here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.868030052866963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. That's just some this year. It's just a little bit of consulting. I haven't generally been doing that. What I do is I work part-time at the college, teach English as a second language, which is a complete change. Yes, it is, and I really enjoy it. I admire the—this is all adults, these are all adult immigrants. Terrific work ethics. These people have worked so hard. They've raised a family. They have kids, the kids are already fully bilingual and now it's their turn. Anyway, I enjoy that. I've been doing that for five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been back to Michigan very often since you left the very small town of a thousand that's still a thousand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still have my mother there and one of my sisters and a brother, so I go back at least once a year, sometimes twice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a climate difference from there to here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I'm not moving back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'll take the sand over the snow."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.520033392074403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still have my mother there and one of my sisters and a brother, so I go back at least once a year, sometimes twice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a climate difference from there to here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I'm not moving back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'll take the sand over the snow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have other plans in the future to possibly do more work with NASA or some of the contractors to kind of keep in touch of what the changes are going there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 18.35559265786045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I'm not moving back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'll take the sand over the snow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have other plans in the future to possibly do more work with NASA or some of the contractors to kind of keep in touch of what the changes are going there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. Right now I can be of use to this particular contractor because they're competing for this contract, which I was the mother of, so to speak. But other than that, I'm not strong technically anymore. I'm not current in a lot of the things, which is fine. It ended up being stressful and also, even though it sounds like a lot of variety, there was a lot of repetition as far as the management. It may be different people but it's similar personnel things and there's just so much bureaucracy. The agency gets older and there's just more and more bureaucracy.\\n\\n I guess I was pretty idealistic, too, in the beginning, and by the time I quit I wasn't nearly as idealistic, and I didn't think people could walk on water. I was always very deferential to my leaders, so to speak, and then after a while you see all these silly things, sometimes. Not all these silly things, but things. Or why did they do that?\\n\\n So I think I was ready to go, and I do enjoy the complete change. So many people go back and do the same thing they did, but from the contractor's side, I'm not really interested in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you'd like, what I'd like to do right now is just take a small break and we can stop for a few minutes and then come back."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.287292574090003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About an hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was great. Let's see, so as far as pure thrill, that was it, and then also the other things I've already talked about, just fly-bys and things like that. So when it came right down to it, the real thrills did have directly to do with aircraft, or the Shuttle landings. One July 4th, Ronald Reagan was there, President Reagan, and we had Enterprise, which is the approach and landing test vehicle, and one Shuttle had just landed, and another one was just taking off to go back to the Cape, and the President and half a million people, or whatever it was. It was just like, oh my God, who wouldn't want to work here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine when the media came, too, for the landings in the early days of the Shuttle system, it must have made almost a chaos at the Center because it's such a small group that you were and then all of a sudden you have all these strangers on base."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would drive in early to work so we wouldn't get caught in the traffic and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your time, I guess, in the early years that you were there, I know some of the NASA budget changed, and a lot of the funding was going toward the manned space flights. Did you feel that in your work as well? Were you impacted by that decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.208102860100002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was great. Let's see, so as far as pure thrill, that was it, and then also the other things I've already talked about, just fly-bys and things like that. So when it came right down to it, the real thrills did have directly to do with aircraft, or the Shuttle landings. One July 4th, Ronald Reagan was there, President Reagan, and we had Enterprise, which is the approach and landing test vehicle, and one Shuttle had just landed, and another one was just taking off to go back to the Cape, and the President and half a million people, or whatever it was. It was just like, oh my God, who wouldn't want to work here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine when the media came, too, for the landings in the early days of the Shuttle system, it must have made almost a chaos at the Center because it's such a small group that you were and then all of a sudden you have all these strangers on base."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would drive in early to work so we wouldn't get caught in the traffic and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your time, I guess, in the early years that you were there, I know some of the NASA budget changed, and a lot of the funding was going toward the manned space flights. Did you feel that in your work as well? Were you impacted by that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We weren't able to expand things or do all the things we wanted to do. In some cases, some of the facilities we were going to build were delayed or canceled. Some of the flight projects were canceled and some experiments were canceled. That was generally hiring freezes and those kinds of things.\\n\\n So for a while, in the late sixties, I don't think we were even recruiting people, or very minimal. Because there was one period, early seventies I think, where we went years without hiring anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But were there new projects introduced at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.120114289000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would drive in early to work so we wouldn't get caught in the traffic and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your time, I guess, in the early years that you were there, I know some of the NASA budget changed, and a lot of the funding was going toward the manned space flights. Did you feel that in your work as well? Were you impacted by that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We weren't able to expand things or do all the things we wanted to do. In some cases, some of the facilities we were going to build were delayed or canceled. Some of the flight projects were canceled and some experiments were canceled. That was generally hiring freezes and those kinds of things.\\n\\n So for a while, in the late sixties, I don't think we were even recruiting people, or very minimal. Because there was one period, early seventies I think, where we went years without hiring anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But were there new projects introduced at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was always a joke, in the sense of well, being more efficient. And you'd have some of these engineers, you know, they'd be assigned to three or four different projects, and you can't—like 10 percent of the time on this and 10 percent of the time on that. Time doesn't go down to 10 percent. You can't really be very efficient on 10 percent. So a lot of people worked really hard and in very difficult circumstances. I'm talking about people all across the Center. A lot of overtime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that wears people down physically and mentally sometimes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.022349210000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We weren't able to expand things or do all the things we wanted to do. In some cases, some of the facilities we were going to build were delayed or canceled. Some of the flight projects were canceled and some experiments were canceled. That was generally hiring freezes and those kinds of things.\\n\\n So for a while, in the late sixties, I don't think we were even recruiting people, or very minimal. Because there was one period, early seventies I think, where we went years without hiring anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But were there new projects introduced at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was always a joke, in the sense of well, being more efficient. And you'd have some of these engineers, you know, they'd be assigned to three or four different projects, and you can't—like 10 percent of the time on this and 10 percent of the time on that. Time doesn't go down to 10 percent. You can't really be very efficient on 10 percent. So a lot of people worked really hard and in very difficult circumstances. I'm talking about people all across the Center. A lot of overtime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that wears people down physically and mentally sometimes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then there are some people who thrive on it. One of my bosses, Archie Moore, the guy just loved being out there. I mean, working was his hobby. In retrospect, just being there doesn't necessarily mean you're getting good work done, but he was always there. There early and whatnot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering, you started there in '65 and you were there during relatively turbulent times, as far as the country was concerned, with Vietnam and, of course, everything that was going on with the protests. Some of the people we've interviewed that were working at Johnson during that time period have talked about how they were so focused on what they were doing, they weren't even aware of the outside world, and every once in a while they'd stick their head up and realize some of the things that were going on. Was that the same way at Dryden, since you were doing pretty focused work there, too?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you and I appreciate you coming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there some other things that you would like to share with us before we close this afternoon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think that pretty much covers it. I guess, I did get an exceptional service medal. That was one of my proud moments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Well, tell about that before we close for the day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just one of those NASA medals. But every year, they have Dryden awards and they have NASA-wide awards, and so in [19] '92 I got an exceptional service medal and I was very proud of that. It was for [providing] data systems, flight test range facilities and teams to support experimental aircraft and the Space Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that given here at Dryden?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think that pretty much covers it. I guess, I did get an exceptional service medal. That was one of my proud moments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Well, tell about that before we close for the day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just one of those NASA medals. But every year, they have Dryden awards and they have NASA-wide awards, and so in [19] '92 I got an exceptional service medal and I was very proud of that. It was for [providing] data systems, flight test range facilities and teams to support experimental aircraft and the Space Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that given here at Dryden?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At Dryden, but they have Headquarters people come out. It wasn't the administrator. Who was it? I forget, but anyway. So that made me feel good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was not too long after that then you retired?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just one of those NASA medals. But every year, they have Dryden awards and they have NASA-wide awards, and so in [19] '92 I got an exceptional service medal and I was very proud of that. It was for [providing] data systems, flight test range facilities and teams to support experimental aircraft and the Space Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that given here at Dryden?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At Dryden, but they have Headquarters people come out. It wasn't the administrator. Who was it? I forget, but anyway. So that made me feel good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was not too long after that then you retired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. May 3, 1993. So I was early out. I guess I was just getting tired of the people management part but that was certainly the only thing I was qualified to do at that point, too. So I said, \"I want a change while I'm still young,\" so I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you're keeping very busy with a new variety of assignments for yourself."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00999:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At Dryden, but they have Headquarters people come out. It wasn't the administrator. Who was it? I forget, but anyway. So that made me feel good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was not too long after that then you retired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. May 3, 1993. So I was early out. I guess I was just getting tired of the people management part but that was certainly the only thing I was qualified to do at that point, too. So I said, \"I want a change while I'm still young,\" so I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you're keeping very busy with a new variety of assignments for yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's easy to keep busy. And I do enjoy teaching, teaching the adults. They're so appreciative. I guess that's one of the differences. When you're responsible for people, you hear about so many bad things, and people are always having trouble. You keep fixing things and doing things, but there's always somebody who's got a problem. But with the people in teaching, they're there because they want to be. They don't have to be there. And they're so appreciative, my God. So I guess I like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we wish you well with that and wish them well because I'm sure you'll open a lot of doors for them with your teaching, and I know that's very rewarding for you to be able to see them blossom and take off and have such wonderful futures ahead of them. So good luck with it all."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00789:4", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you for your next input, and if you have time, we would like to at least come back for another -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what I'd like to do is -I've basically given you pretty much a synopsis of the whole flight. If there are any areas that come up now with the others and you want to come back with me, I think that's what you should do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would like to, because you've given us a good overview, and there's certain things we'd like you just to give your perceptions of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good. All right. All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what we'd like to do for the next time through."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00789:6", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what I'd like to do is -I've basically given you pretty much a synopsis of the whole flight. If there are any areas that come up now with the others and you want to come back with me, I think that's what you should do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would like to, because you've given us a good overview, and there's certain things we'd like you just to give your perceptions of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good. All right. All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what we'd like to do for the next time through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if I covered exercise in the previous one, but there are areas now that are under hot discussion at the moment. Exercise is one of them. Sleep compartments is another. Crew habitability. But I've given you more of the story of the flight, as opposed to debrief specific functions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and we have in your debriefs that -Charlie Brown sent those to us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00789:8", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good. All right. All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what we'd like to do for the next time through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if I covered exercise in the previous one, but there are areas now that are under hot discussion at the moment. Exercise is one of them. Sleep compartments is another. Crew habitability. But I've given you more of the story of the flight, as opposed to debrief specific functions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and we have in your debriefs that -Charlie Brown sent those to us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, there you're going to get more detail on that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then this last time that we come back, if you'll give us one more hour, what we'd like to do is we'll have some specific topics, and you can just give us your perceptions and then anything else you'd like to add at the end."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00789:10", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if I covered exercise in the previous one, but there are areas now that are under hot discussion at the moment. Exercise is one of them. Sleep compartments is another. Crew habitability. But I've given you more of the story of the flight, as opposed to debrief specific functions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and we have in your debriefs that -Charlie Brown sent those to us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, there you're going to get more detail on that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then this last time that we come back, if you'll give us one more hour, what we'd like to do is we'll have some specific topics, and you can just give us your perceptions and then anything else you'd like to add at the end."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thanks.\n\nWhen you were on your EVA, for those six hours manning the crank, were you consumed by your job or did you do any sightseeing while you were . . .?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00789:12", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, there you're going to get more detail on that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then this last time that we come back, if you'll give us one more hour, what we'd like to do is we'll have some specific topics, and you can just give us your perceptions and then anything else you'd like to add at the end."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thanks.\n\nWhen you were on your EVA, for those six hours manning the crank, were you consumed by your job or did you do any sightseeing while you were . . .?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I had almost -I had 80 percent sightseeing to do. It was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are the types of things that we want to come back and get from you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00789:14", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thanks.\n\nWhen you were on your EVA, for those six hours manning the crank, were you consumed by your job or did you do any sightseeing while you were . . .?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I had almost -I had 80 percent sightseeing to do. It was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are the types of things that we want to come back and get from you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just a fantastic experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your feelings with the crew changing and adaptability and just was there tension or was there -just those types of things so we can get how you really feel. So the next time will be kind of a free-for-all."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 38.05420135861992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But it was amazing how quickly we were able to—we actually deployed them in two years, so they were over in England launching out of pads over there within two years of when we started the program. That kind of ability to move out is to some extent lost today. We've become so involved in doing everything by rote that we can't break the rules and get out of that habit to do something new and exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did lots of exciting things. From my research it looks like you worked on the Atlas and the Titan and the Minuteman."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. I was involved in the guidance control systems, really the electronics laboratory at Ramo-Wooldridge I ran for a while. That did all of the guidance and control for the ballistic missile program. We actually did all of the software there, because that gave us the insight into the programs that you need for being able to do the technical direction and the systems engineering on it. We were fortunate in getting a tremendously capable group of people working on the program and recruited from everywhere. But it was an exciting thing. It was one of these programs that was super secret, so no one was supposed to know anything about it, and very few people did.\\n\\n We really developed a whole new technology in that time frame, which took place in about six or seven years. Then it grew and grew and grew like things do. Si and Dean [phonetic] started out in a schoolhouse, and, well, actually started in that little storefront office on the street, but then moved into a schoolhouse, and then eventually began to build buildings so that you have that complex which is now down in Manhattan Beach and Torrance that they have built and developed, which is now shrinking, which is characteristic of life. If you aren't growing, you're shrinking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were involved in Pioneer I, which was considered the first successful probe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us a little bit about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 40.60997006343533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was interesting because I was doing that and running that program in addition to running the laboratories. So I spent my days working in the lab organizing and keeping things going there, then I spent the nights working on this thing. We had a few other people. It's amazing what you can do with a very few people. I think we didn't have more than ten people working on the spacecraft itself, plus some technicians.\\n\\n But I remember very well that we were about halfway through the program, NASA took it over, so we had some NASA people out watching the program. So they kept asking my bosses, \"If George is running the program, how can he do that? He's never working on it?\" Of course, I was doing my work at night, and they weren't around. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Spent a lot of hours then/"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, those are days when you slept just enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then at some point you left Space Technologies Laboratory [STL] and went to work for NASA as a deputy associate administrator for manned space flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, as the associate administrator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the associate administrator. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 40.67774451492814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, those are days when you slept just enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then at some point you left Space Technologies Laboratory [STL] and went to work for NASA as a deputy associate administrator for manned space flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, as the associate administrator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the associate administrator. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I started that associate administrator business. I was the first of that breed. Homer [E.] Newell became an associate administrator for space science. Let's see, who was running the technology group at that time? Associate administrator for technology was—he went to work for Avco up in Connecticut when he left us. Well, his name will came back. That long ago, names are a little more difficult to recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you entered your job at NASA as associate administrator, what did you think was ahead for you at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.497624205651633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Joe, of course, is the person responsible for the capsule. It was a question as to who was the best person for the investigation. Joe knew so much about it, it made sense for him to be on the investigating committee. He knew all the interior problems more than anyone else did. In retrospect, I wish that I had had Sam serve on it instead of Joe, because Joe got so deeply emotionally involved that he lost—well, he really had a nervous breakdown, and that created a whole host of personal problems for him and for us as well. Because of that situation we had to replace him. Very difficult. He was a friend, a very good friend, of mine, and one of the most brilliant people I've ever known. Yet he became too involved, too emotionally upset about it, that he just became unable to do the kind of constructive things that we needed at the time. Spent too much time worrying about what had happened, not enough about how to get from where we were to where we needed to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the program did continue. I want to go back just a little bit and talk about some more positive things, hopefully. You were the one responsible for deciding on the all-up testing procedure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us a little bit about how you came to that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was easy. You just looked at the schedule, and you could see that if you went through the test program that Marshall [Space Flight Center] had laid out for the launch vehicle, that you weren't going to be landing on the moon in the decade. I don't think that anyone really who had been involved in the program disagreed with that. I don't know that that time they were all that convinced that we they were going to be able to land on the moon in the decade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you convince Dr. von Braun and his associates that that was a good idea?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.041341572399984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apollo 4?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "AS-501?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you thinking? Were you a little anxious when you did that first test?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I was deeply enough involved in the program so that at that time I was more interested in making sure that everything that I could think of, or anybody else could think of, was done so it was going to work right. Of course, it worked very well. The 505 didn't work quite so well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us a little bit about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.712601747111094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you thinking? Were you a little anxious when you did that first test?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I was deeply enough involved in the program so that at that time I was more interested in making sure that everything that I could think of, or anybody else could think of, was done so it was going to work right. Of course, it worked very well. The 505 didn't work quite so well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us a little bit about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a great learning experience. One of the things that our organization, the organization we had set up with the program offices and the technical groups supporting and so on, worked exceedingly well in terms of identifying the problems and curing them, and identifying them clearly enough so that we certainly knew what the problem was, because that's always a problem when you're dealing with things at a distance.\\n\\n We produced the problem on the ground and made the corrections necessary, and then we went through the entire history of those two flights, to be sure there weren't other anomalies in them, in as much depth as I've ever seen programs reviewed, and on the basis of that we felt confident enough that this thing was going to fly, that we flew the next one to the moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that decision to send Apollo 8 around the moon, you weren't initially convinced that was a good idea, were you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.569557496790104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I was deeply enough involved in the program so that at that time I was more interested in making sure that everything that I could think of, or anybody else could think of, was done so it was going to work right. Of course, it worked very well. The 505 didn't work quite so well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us a little bit about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a great learning experience. One of the things that our organization, the organization we had set up with the program offices and the technical groups supporting and so on, worked exceedingly well in terms of identifying the problems and curing them, and identifying them clearly enough so that we certainly knew what the problem was, because that's always a problem when you're dealing with things at a distance.\\n\\n We produced the problem on the ground and made the corrections necessary, and then we went through the entire history of those two flights, to be sure there weren't other anomalies in them, in as much depth as I've ever seen programs reviewed, and on the basis of that we felt confident enough that this thing was going to fly, that we flew the next one to the moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that decision to send Apollo 8 around the moon, you weren't initially convinced that was a good idea, were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, as a matter of fact, I thought it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.632841663100116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a great learning experience. One of the things that our organization, the organization we had set up with the program offices and the technical groups supporting and so on, worked exceedingly well in terms of identifying the problems and curing them, and identifying them clearly enough so that we certainly knew what the problem was, because that's always a problem when you're dealing with things at a distance.\\n\\n We produced the problem on the ground and made the corrections necessary, and then we went through the entire history of those two flights, to be sure there weren't other anomalies in them, in as much depth as I've ever seen programs reviewed, and on the basis of that we felt confident enough that this thing was going to fly, that we flew the next one to the moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that decision to send Apollo 8 around the moon, you weren't initially convinced that was a good idea, were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, as a matter of fact, I thought it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I wanted to make sure that we did this thorough review, and so I used it as a—I said, \"You've got to convince me it's going to be safe.\" No, I used that as a lever to get that kind of a review, which really found a few things and straightened them out before we were satisfied that it was safe to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You sent Apollo 8 around the moon, and it was successful, but several flights later on Apollo 13 there was a lot of problems on that flight, but they got back with the lunar module. Did that make you reflect any differently on Apollo, what you had done on Apollo 8?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.36153291740755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I wanted to make sure that we did this thorough review, and so I used it as a—I said, \"You've got to convince me it's going to be safe.\" No, I used that as a lever to get that kind of a review, which really found a few things and straightened them out before we were satisfied that it was safe to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You sent Apollo 8 around the moon, and it was successful, but several flights later on Apollo 13 there was a lot of problems on that flight, but they got back with the lunar module. Did that make you reflect any differently on Apollo, what you had done on Apollo 8?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it proved that I was right. Of course, I was out by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Dale [D.] Myers—we're working together on this thing now—that was running it. I told him it was his fault. [Laughter] This was later, of course. But, no, we had anticipated that kind of a problem. If we would have known what the problem was, it wouldn't have happened. But we anticipated that there could be problems that had that kind of a consequence, and we had looked at how to get back, and that's the case. It was worse than we had anticipated, but still it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you were working on the Apollo Program, you realized that there as going to have to be something after Apollo."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 27.06836990823061, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it proved that I was right. Of course, I was out by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Dale [D.] Myers—we're working together on this thing now—that was running it. I told him it was his fault. [Laughter] This was later, of course. But, no, we had anticipated that kind of a problem. If we would have known what the problem was, it wouldn't have happened. But we anticipated that there could be problems that had that kind of a consequence, and we had looked at how to get back, and that's the case. It was worse than we had anticipated, but still it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you were working on the Apollo Program, you realized that there as going to have to be something after Apollo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Or I hoped there was going to be something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What eventually came after Apollo was Skylab. So how did that all get started?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.104997389000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it's interesting. Of course, basically, my background is in science, so it was something I thought of as being important. My background's also in engineering, so I have both sides of the coin.\\n\\n There was not a great deal of enthusiasm initially anywhere in the organization for science, but because it was impacting Johnson more than it was Marshall, Marshall was much more enthusiastic about science than Johnson was. So it took a fair amount of direction to get a scientific program installed in the program. It wasn't so much opposition to it as it was, well, they didn't really see why it was useful. And none of the astronauts, of course, had any scientific background, so they weren't particularly—In fact, Jack [Harrison H.] Schmitt was the only one that had any scientific training, and he almost didn't get to fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you think that ensuring that science was done on those helped NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it did indeed. In fact, the amazing thing was shortly after the program ended, one of the chief opponents of the Apollo programs from the scientific community came around and said, \"You know, we were wrong. We should have insisted on more science and more flights.\" Because it turned out to be very, very useful, and certainly if we had continued the program, it would have been very valuable from a scientific point of view, because we had a far more capable exploration tool in the lunar excursion module than we're likely to have in any of the robotic programs we now are contemplating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One thing we didn't talk about when we were talking about Apollo was how you felt when you watched from Mission Control the landing of the lunar module on Apollo 11."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.9567869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell us about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a fascinating time. I was in the little side room they have there, and listening and listening and listening, and thinking, \"Are they going to be able to land?\" It happened very rapidly. So they had landed by the time all of the worries got organized in my mind. But that was a traumatic moment. And as it turns out, it was one of those things, that somebody decided that they would just do a little experiment on the landing altimeter and left it running instead of turning it off as it was supposed to be, and that just overloaded the shift registers in the computer. Fortunately, it was self-correcting, so it would come back on again, but then this landing radar would cause it to overload and shut down, I guess. That was driving them until they got down to the ground. It turned out that the folks on the ground, the support troops, recognized the problem, or [they] analyzed it and recognized it in the few moments they had to do it, and decided it was safe to proceed. But that was a hectic five or ten minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was in 1969, and that's the same year you left NASA. Why did you decide to leave NASA and go back to industry at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.507541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell us about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a fascinating time. I was in the little side room they have there, and listening and listening and listening, and thinking, \"Are they going to be able to land?\" It happened very rapidly. So they had landed by the time all of the worries got organized in my mind. But that was a traumatic moment. And as it turns out, it was one of those things, that somebody decided that they would just do a little experiment on the landing altimeter and left it running instead of turning it off as it was supposed to be, and that just overloaded the shift registers in the computer. Fortunately, it was self-correcting, so it would come back on again, but then this landing radar would cause it to overload and shut down, I guess. That was driving them until they got down to the ground. It turned out that the folks on the ground, the support troops, recognized the problem, or [they] analyzed it and recognized it in the few moments they had to do it, and decided it was safe to proceed. But that was a hectic five or ten minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was in 1969, and that's the same year you left NASA. Why did you decide to leave NASA and go back to industry at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, several reasons. One is that the decision had been made to terminate the Apollo Program, and that was a good time then to leave before, and let someone else take over for the next phase. From a practical point of view, I needed to go make some money so I could keep my family going. It was costly for us to join the Apollo Program. My salary was half what I was making in industry when I went there, and it was just a strain to keep the family going and work going at the same time. So I went back to industry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was nice to leave with the triumph of landing on the moon."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. What I'm trying to do is get us out into space. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you so much for your time that you've spent with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm jealous of John Glenn. I very much wanted to go on Apollo 8, but Jim Webb wouldn't let me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, John Glenn is very fortunate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll be hearing a lot more about him in another month.\n\nYou'll just have to put in your little program plan for getting yourself up there. Sell yourself to Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00443:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm jealous of John Glenn. I very much wanted to go on Apollo 8, but Jim Webb wouldn't let me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, John Glenn is very fortunate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll be hearing a lot more about him in another month.\n\nYou'll just have to put in your little program plan for getting yourself up there. Sell yourself to Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter] Ah, yes. Well, I don't have quite the political clout that John has."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Again, we thank you so much for participating."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00911:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.178199999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, definitely. Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you’ve worked at several places throughout the government, several agencies. How does NASA compare? Is there anything that sticks out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I have not yet worked at another federal agency. OSTP is really a part of the Executive Office of the President, although it is its own agency in terms of having all the functions that a normal agency would have, housed in that small office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, of course, Congress is one of a kind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What can you compare that to? That was a great experience, both being on the Hill and also being in the White House. It’s really hard until you get into either one of those to understand how they work and how they operate, and it’s kind of hard to penetrate on the outside.\\n\\n I would say the first thing, again, is the fact that I’ve been really fortunate to work both homeland security and space issues. The people that do this day in and day out, they love their jobs. They’re dedicated. They’re committed. They’re very passionate. You don’t always get that in the federal government. So, from that standpoint, it’s really nice to work in this agency and see the level of devotion and commitment to America’s space program when you go out anywhere in the agency or the broader aerospace community.\\n\\n I think the other things are just what you would expect in large organizations and also in bureaucracies. It’s not going to be the same level of bureaucracy at NASA as it is at some of the bigger departments, which is good, but it’s a level of bureaucracy that you don’t necessarily encounter in the private sector. Throughout my entire career, if I felt a sense of urgency about particular issues, I would want them to be taken care of very quickly, and so I have had to learn patience in this job, because things don’t move as quickly as I would like them to move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other big surprises since you’ve been here that you didn’t expect when you came? I know that’s a general question."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00911:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was later that I was. Definitely I was inspired as a kid, but I didn’t have the same desire that he did, as many people do, to become an astronaut. Definitely a coolness factor about astronauts when I was little. My intense interest in either working at NASA or somehow being affiliated with aerospace actually came in law school, and that was because of a law article that I wrote on remote sensing satellites. You probably know the story that I had applied to NASA for an attorney position just as I was coming out of law school, and nothing came of that, and that was fine. But the reason that I came up to Capitol Hill was to either pursue space or telecommunications policy work, and eventually, after a year on Capitol Hill working on Public Works and Transportation Committee, there was an opening on the House Science Committee, and that was the start of my progression into space work. And now, after all these years, I’m finally at NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The transition over to House Science Committee was 1991."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you for your time today. Is there anything you’d like to add or any subject that you’ve thought about that we didn’t get to cover?\n\nI’m sure she could go on and on. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we thank you again."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00269:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 64.40222404296921, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no question about that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that received in Hangar S when the folks from the Space Task Group started coming down there? Were you well received?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, because we knew all the guys, you see. As I say, I had shared an office with \"Press,\" so it was fine. We got along very, very well.\\n\\n Another guy you may have come across the name, anyway, he was never in the civil service, was John [F.] Yardley. Yes, he was in the civil service. He became Shuttle program manager. He ran Hangar S for McDonnell-Douglas, so he sort of worked for \"Press\" and the pair of them together, we had a whole bunch of really good civil servants down there and a bunch of really good McDonnell-Douglas people. Some of them became very famous, John himself.\\n\\n Another guy whose name you'll hear all over the place was Guenter Wendt, who was the guy who always looked after the crew when he buttoned them up, became very famous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those Mercury days must have been very exciting—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—because they never stopped, and you kept watching things change. Can you tell us some things that were happening during those early days that you were starting, even before it became evolving, you were creating before it could evolve."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00269:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 67.11358226996578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, because we knew all the guys, you see. As I say, I had shared an office with \"Press,\" so it was fine. We got along very, very well.\\n\\n Another guy you may have come across the name, anyway, he was never in the civil service, was John [F.] Yardley. Yes, he was in the civil service. He became Shuttle program manager. He ran Hangar S for McDonnell-Douglas, so he sort of worked for \"Press\" and the pair of them together, we had a whole bunch of really good civil servants down there and a bunch of really good McDonnell-Douglas people. Some of them became very famous, John himself.\\n\\n Another guy whose name you'll hear all over the place was Guenter Wendt, who was the guy who always looked after the crew when he buttoned them up, became very famous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those Mercury days must have been very exciting—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—because they never stopped, and you kept watching things change. Can you tell us some things that were happening during those early days that you were starting, even before it became evolving, you were creating before it could evolve."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the thing was, we were never quite sure—see, the reason the people hadn't joined and they couldn't get people to hire was because they thought it was a fly-by-night thing. We'd get enough money for two or three years, we'd do the Mercury Program, it would be all over. Well, we were successful, is really what happened, and so they decided—[President] John [F.] Kennedy made the decision about Apollo, but at the time that decision was made, we had not got a Gemini Program, and we all of a sudden realized that we didn't know how we were going to get to the moon and that one of the keys was going to be this rendezvous thing, and we didn't know how to do that. Had no idea how to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess you were surprised to hear President Kennedy make that announcement? What was your reaction when you heard that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00269:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 33.385596899999996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In a way, that was kind of a sad situation. My wife talks about this very often. When we were at Houston, she said the only thing that counted was the Apollo Program. That was the only thing that counted, and by the time we left in 1970, that was the height of the Vietnam War. They didn't even know the Vietnam War was going on. It's incredible when you think about it. So, I mean, it really was dedicated. We talked earlier on about this business of being a tight-knit organization. It was and it still is. I'm not sure if you notice that down there. As far as they're concerned, I think, Manned Spacecraft Center is NASA. Ask anybody what the first word from the moon was said. You know what it was?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Houston."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Houston. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of missions, do you have a favorite one that you were involved in? Does one stand out more to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One [Gemini VIII] stood out more because I dumped Neil Armstrong into the Sea of China. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like the share the details of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00269:106", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any thoughts or anything else that you'd like to add that we might not have covered?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know yet. I think probably the best thing to do is to think about it. Then if I've got any other subjects that we don't seem to have covered too well, I can do that.\\n\\n One of the things that might be worth putting in, and we can talk about it later, is this whole business of how do you go about selling a high-technology program in the U.S. Government environment. That's a very interesting story in itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was fun, too, because now I have all this enormous stock of knowledge. The only thing I care about is, I've got to get my golf score down to 85. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's also nice to hear through all the years you worked and all the hours that you worked during those weeks, that there is the word that you seem to enjoy using a lot, that you had a good time. You had fun doing what you were doing, taking ideas and turning them into reality."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00269:108", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know yet. I think probably the best thing to do is to think about it. Then if I've got any other subjects that we don't seem to have covered too well, I can do that.\\n\\n One of the things that might be worth putting in, and we can talk about it later, is this whole business of how do you go about selling a high-technology program in the U.S. Government environment. That's a very interesting story in itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was fun, too, because now I have all this enormous stock of knowledge. The only thing I care about is, I've got to get my golf score down to 85. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's also nice to hear through all the years you worked and all the hours that you worked during those weeks, that there is the word that you seem to enjoy using a lot, that you had a good time. You had fun doing what you were doing, taking ideas and turning them into reality."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's very rewarding. It's very rewarding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We look forward to reviewing this and hoping to talk to you again. Thanks."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.975879945475704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I retired after 30 years of teaching kindergarten, and right now my main interests are my grandchildren."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, kind of think back to like the year before you joined the Peace Corps and talk about life then. You know, you can include childhood, education, other experiences, you know, relevant to becoming a volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I came from a family who never, ever traveled. So I remember watching a program on television called Operation Crossroads, which was like a precursor to the Peace Corps, and it showed some young Americans in Africa and that just, that really, I remember that vividly. And then I was obviously a big fan of President Kennedy. So when the Peace Corps was established and I was in college, I already set my mind that as soon as I graduated from college, I was going to join the Peace Corps. And when I did graduate, I hadn't heard yet from the Peace Corps. And my father was very upset that I hadn't made a real conscious effort to get a job because I kept saying, no, I'm going to go into the Peace Corps, I'm going to go into Peace Corps. And I just went back to doing the work I did every summer, as my summer job. And I finally heard on July 10th, I got a telegram that I was going. And I was just very, very excited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what, I guess you kind of hinted on this. You know, what made you decide to apply, seeing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was seeing that ad, and I always just loved learning about other countries. And I always thought that when I grew up, I would travel. And this just looked like an opportunity to do that pretty much at the government's expense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you applied, did you have a specific country or a project in mind?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.862088828306337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I came from a family who never, ever traveled. So I remember watching a program on television called Operation Crossroads, which was like a precursor to the Peace Corps, and it showed some young Americans in Africa and that just, that really, I remember that vividly. And then I was obviously a big fan of President Kennedy. So when the Peace Corps was established and I was in college, I already set my mind that as soon as I graduated from college, I was going to join the Peace Corps. And when I did graduate, I hadn't heard yet from the Peace Corps. And my father was very upset that I hadn't made a real conscious effort to get a job because I kept saying, no, I'm going to go into the Peace Corps, I'm going to go into Peace Corps. And I just went back to doing the work I did every summer, as my summer job. And I finally heard on July 10th, I got a telegram that I was going. And I was just very, very excited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what, I guess you kind of hinted on this. You know, what made you decide to apply, seeing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was seeing that ad, and I always just loved learning about other countries. And I always thought that when I grew up, I would travel. And this just looked like an opportunity to do that pretty much at the government's expense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you applied, did you have a specific country or a project in mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I went to school to be a teacher, so I was pretty sure I would probably be in education, because that was the majority of the Peace Corps volunteers were in education at that time. But no, I remember the question was, where would you like to go? And I put anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so even though the Crossroads thing had to do with Africa."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.95787647589593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was seeing that ad, and I always just loved learning about other countries. And I always thought that when I grew up, I would travel. And this just looked like an opportunity to do that pretty much at the government's expense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you applied, did you have a specific country or a project in mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I went to school to be a teacher, so I was pretty sure I would probably be in education, because that was the majority of the Peace Corps volunteers were in education at that time. But no, I remember the question was, where would you like to go? And I put anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so even though the Crossroads thing had to do with Africa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't specifically request Africa or anything. You just got. You know, with me, I didn't, when I heard Turkey, I didn't even know where it was. I had to look on a globe or something. What were your friends' and family's reactions when you were accepted? Were there any hesitation, reservations, either on your part or their part or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 24.639353673945593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't specifically request Africa or anything. You just got. You know, with me, I didn't, when I heard Turkey, I didn't even know where it was. I had to look on a globe or something. What were your friends' and family's reactions when you were accepted? Were there any hesitation, reservations, either on your part or their part or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think most people fell in two groups. Either they really didn't understand it, and after the initial, you're doing what? Oh, what are you going to do? How long? And then there was, that was the end of the conversation. Or there were a few people that were just totally into it and asked a lot of questions. And there were also the people who wrote to me through the time I was there and always supported me. My mother and father I know were, had to have been very, very frightened, their first child going so far away. But I was too oblivious to realize how much of a shock it was to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just was very excited about going. And they were, outwardly, they were always very supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, what project were you invited to join?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.154837415495102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think most people fell in two groups. Either they really didn't understand it, and after the initial, you're doing what? Oh, what are you going to do? How long? And then there was, that was the end of the conversation. Or there were a few people that were just totally into it and asked a lot of questions. And there were also the people who wrote to me through the time I was there and always supported me. My mother and father I know were, had to have been very, very frightened, their first child going so far away. But I was too oblivious to realize how much of a shock it was to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just was very excited about going. And they were, outwardly, they were always very supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, what project were you invited to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Liberia IX. It was the ninth group to go to Liberia, and it was to train to be a teacher. So all of the whole group were going into education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you had any previous education?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.055354833944566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Liberia IX. It was the ninth group to go to Liberia, and it was to train to be a teacher. So all of the whole group were going into education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you had any previous education?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was an education major."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So it was right up my field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Um, how did you prepare yourself and others for, you know, going away two years? Did you have any special preparations or anything that you had to do for?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 34.50594981549396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was an education major."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So it was right up my field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Um, how did you prepare yourself and others for, you know, going away two years? Did you have any special preparations or anything that you had to do for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't really, because I had just graduated from college, so I didn't like I had a home or I had a job or anything like that. And I just, the Peace Corps sent you a big pamphlet of what you're supposed to do. And I just followed what they told me to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, if you want to talk about your training, where it was, the faculty, the syllabus, technical studies, reaction to other trainees, language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 32.784388683882185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So it was right up my field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Um, how did you prepare yourself and others for, you know, going away two years? Did you have any special preparations or anything that you had to do for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't really, because I had just graduated from college, so I didn't like I had a home or I had a job or anything like that. And I just, the Peace Corps sent you a big pamphlet of what you're supposed to do. And I just followed what they told me to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, if you want to talk about your training, where it was, the faculty, the syllabus, technical studies, reaction to other trainees, language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were trained in, by the San Francisco State College faculty and staff. At that time, Peace Corps contracted it out. And so in early October, I was flown to San Francisco. And, um, the training was a, they were very long days. We were, we stayed at an old army base that was outside the city limits. And we were on campus by 5:30 every morning and had two hours of physical education by the PE department of the college. And then we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two hours a day?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 30.844924301089122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were trained in, by the San Francisco State College faculty and staff. At that time, Peace Corps contracted it out. And so in early October, I was flown to San Francisco. And, um, the training was a, they were very long days. We were, we stayed at an old army base that was outside the city limits. And we were on campus by 5:30 every morning and had two hours of physical education by the PE department of the college. And then we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two hours a day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every day, Monday through Friday. Four hours of language training, and then four hours of, it had an acronym. But it was West African studies and politics and history and that kind of stuff. And then four hours of education training. So usually we got back to the fort around 11:00 at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very long days. And it was all staffed by either San Francisco State staff or some Liberians that the Peace Corps had recruited and some former volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did this last?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 33.16102700121014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every day, Monday through Friday. Four hours of language training, and then four hours of, it had an acronym. But it was West African studies and politics and history and that kind of stuff. And then four hours of education training. So usually we got back to the fort around 11:00 at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very long days. And it was all staffed by either San Francisco State staff or some Liberians that the Peace Corps had recruited and some former volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did this last?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was eight weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eight weeks. Okay. Now, what about the selection process? Were there surprises, disappointments, enjoyments?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.51225222356682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very long days. And it was all staffed by either San Francisco State staff or some Liberians that the Peace Corps had recruited and some former volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did this last?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was eight weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eight weeks. Okay. Now, what about the selection process? Were there surprises, disappointments, enjoyments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've never quite figured out what they used as a criteria because throughout the whole eight weeks in San Francisco and then the six weeks we had in Key West where we had our student teaching, people were being deselected all, all, all along that time. And I never, there were people who were deselected that I thought would have made great volunteers. There were people who ended up going that I never thought would make it. So I don't know what their criteria really was. They, I know they, they asked our feedback a lot. Who, would questions like, who would you like to? Who do you think would make a good volunteer? Who do you think would not? Who would you like to be stationed with? Who would you not like to be stationed with? And I guess they took some of those answers into account. But throughout the whole process, people were deselected, and in some cases it was very secretive. All of a sudden somebody was just gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a heavy psychological thing? Because we did in our group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 37.23583580396313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was eight weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eight weeks. Okay. Now, what about the selection process? Were there surprises, disappointments, enjoyments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've never quite figured out what they used as a criteria because throughout the whole eight weeks in San Francisco and then the six weeks we had in Key West where we had our student teaching, people were being deselected all, all, all along that time. And I never, there were people who were deselected that I thought would have made great volunteers. There were people who ended up going that I never thought would make it. So I don't know what their criteria really was. They, I know they, they asked our feedback a lot. Who, would questions like, who would you like to? Who do you think would make a good volunteer? Who do you think would not? Who would you like to be stationed with? Who would you not like to be stationed with? And I guess they took some of those answers into account. But throughout the whole process, people were deselected, and in some cases it was very secretive. All of a sudden somebody was just gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a heavy psychological thing? Because we did in our group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had these groups and then if you messed up in the group, they hit you over the head with an individual session."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.36676696229709, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that when I think about it, it's interesting because the whole purpose of the training was to prepare you. I don't think a sentence ever started through those, those weeks with, that didn't start, well, when you were overseas. Well, when you're in Liberia, ba ba ba. And yet, it was a very important event in my life, training, and even if I had never gone overseas, I would have found it a very valuable, worthwhile, entertaining, and fun time of my life.\n\nUm, the language was no help at all because we were, we did not know what our assignments would be. And there are like 27 different tribal languages. And so we just got a smattering of all the, you know, what, Manos and the Gio and the Bassa and all these. So we really, we just were trained in semantics and linguistics. So there was a culture shock. But I don't think they could have done any different. I ended up living with Manos and the Gios and the Mandingos, so I don't know if they could have given me a crash course in Mano or Gio or Arabic, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, did, did you teach in English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, so you could have got by without."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did, yes. And they did do a lot with the pidgin English. And that was helpful when you got there. And of course, just with time you learned it. But I guess the training was helpful. I don't know. I did, I didn't have anything trouble adjusting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What about your initial entry into the country and your reaction to the country? Maybe you can talk about the project, the staff, impression of local people, physical environment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 32.629741069218994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, so you could have got by without."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did, yes. And they did do a lot with the pidgin English. And that was helpful when you got there. And of course, just with time you learned it. But I guess the training was helpful. I don't know. I did, I didn't have anything trouble adjusting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What about your initial entry into the country and your reaction to the country? Maybe you can talk about the project, the staff, impression of local people, physical environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was so long ago, but I do vividly, vividly remember the plane touching down in Africa and realizing I was in Africa. And we took a bus from Robertsport, the airport, into Monrovia, and it went through the jungle area. And, and I just remember looking out the window and all the colors. The blue, blue sky and everything was so green. And the soil in Liberia is very, very red. And all the women that were walking along the paths and walking along the road with their bright colored clothes and their babies on their back and the big pots on their heads and. And I just, that feeling of just. I do remember that.\n\nUh, the heat. I remember the heat and the humidity being. I just was, I knew it was coming, but still it was overwhelming to have that heat and humidity. We didn't stay too long once we arrived. We were only in the capital for probably 4 or 5 days. And then we were given our assignments and we headed out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was your initial assignment what you ended up doing? Or did you have like a trial period?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.92339745346592, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The other thing that was good about it was most, almost all the staff of the, of the government high school was Peace Corps. So during my time there, we had between 4 to 6 volunteers in Sanniquellie. So, no, I was never alone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, you said there were, were there 80 in your total group or just in your particular group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my group, yeah. We all were going into education, so it was all one group. The only difference was there was a small group of around 16 lawyers and they, they took some different classes because they were going to stay at Monrovia and start the law school at the University of Monrovia. But basically we were all going into education and the group was one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about like your typical day and your relations with the people of the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, morning was, was always the best time of day for me. I loved it. I, um. My house. The main room of the house was really almost like a screened porch. Two sides of it were screened and it looked up. It was up on a hill and it looked down over a rice field. And then the village was past that. And the road that was in front of my house was the main road to the high school and was the road to the river. So I woke up every morning to the sound of the birds and the monkeys and all that.\n\nBut then watching the, the village come to life, I always loved that. I always sat and had my tea and heard the, what woke me up every morning was the caller from the mosque waking, telling the Mandingos to pray. So that always woke me up. I never needed an alarm clock. I heard him calling. And then soon after that the women would be going down to the river to wash clothes. So I'd hear them giggling and they're chatting as they're walking past my house. And then soon after that the little kids would be walking by to go to the river to fish. So just watching my village wake up every morning was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Islam the main?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 33.24821939273991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my group, yeah. We all were going into education, so it was all one group. The only difference was there was a small group of around 16 lawyers and they, they took some different classes because they were going to stay at Monrovia and start the law school at the University of Monrovia. But basically we were all going into education and the group was one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about like your typical day and your relations with the people of the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, morning was, was always the best time of day for me. I loved it. I, um. My house. The main room of the house was really almost like a screened porch. Two sides of it were screened and it looked up. It was up on a hill and it looked down over a rice field. And then the village was past that. And the road that was in front of my house was the main road to the high school and was the road to the river. So I woke up every morning to the sound of the birds and the monkeys and all that.\n\nBut then watching the, the village come to life, I always loved that. I always sat and had my tea and heard the, what woke me up every morning was the caller from the mosque waking, telling the Mandingos to pray. So that always woke me up. I never needed an alarm clock. I heard him calling. And then soon after that the women would be going down to the river to wash clothes. So I'd hear them giggling and they're chatting as they're walking past my house. And then soon after that the little kids would be walking by to go to the river to fish. So just watching my village wake up every morning was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Islam the main?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the Mandingos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the Mandingos."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 34.72024376971102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, morning was, was always the best time of day for me. I loved it. I, um. My house. The main room of the house was really almost like a screened porch. Two sides of it were screened and it looked up. It was up on a hill and it looked down over a rice field. And then the village was past that. And the road that was in front of my house was the main road to the high school and was the road to the river. So I woke up every morning to the sound of the birds and the monkeys and all that.\n\nBut then watching the, the village come to life, I always loved that. I always sat and had my tea and heard the, what woke me up every morning was the caller from the mosque waking, telling the Mandingos to pray. So that always woke me up. I never needed an alarm clock. I heard him calling. And then soon after that the women would be going down to the river to wash clothes. So I'd hear them giggling and they're chatting as they're walking past my house. And then soon after that the little kids would be walking by to go to the river to fish. So just watching my village wake up every morning was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Islam the main?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the Mandingos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the Mandingos."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But the Mano and the Gio tribes, they, well, some of them, I think, I guess were Christian, but most of them were not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What about some people that you encountered either, you know, people from Liberia or other PCVs, PC staff? And the role of language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 35.24471529967891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the Mandingos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the Mandingos."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But the Mano and the Gio tribes, they, well, some of them, I think, I guess were Christian, but most of them were not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What about some people that you encountered either, you know, people from Liberia or other PCVs, PC staff? And the role of language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess the important people to me were my students, and most of those students had come from small villages outside of Sanniquellie, and they really didn't, they weren't with their families. They stayed in huts that their, that their chief owned and used when he came in to, had when there was big chief meetings. My neighbors were always very nice to me and I had a lot of fun with them. And I guess you first met the kids, like it is everywhere. The kids come up and look in your windows and talk to you, and then you meet the rest of them. And, um, I just, I enjoyed all my, all the people of Sanniquellie.\n\nAnd there were lots of interesting foreigners. Like I think I mentioned there was Father Francis who was from Ghana, was very nice. And the Belgian sisters, I'd go over there and play volleyball together. They were very nice. And the Israeli doctor and his wife would come over. We'd come over for dinner and I'd go and visit with his family. Whenever we had any visitors, I was, well, all the volunteers, all the Peace Corps volunteers, were kind of included as the important people of the village. So besides all the doctors and the chiefs and the store owners and the principal, we were always part of that. So we always were part of any big groups that came together. So it was kind of nice to be an important person in the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about work time versus leisure time, if you could maybe describe those?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.458948196567665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably about an hour. It's hard to tell because if you travel from one village to another on the road and you, you take a, what they call a taxi, just a car that somebody decides that they're going to drive up and down the road and make money. And the time, the distance is based on money. So they say it's $2 up the road. And the taxi drivers have a life of their own. They may get started and then decide that they're going to have a meal in a little village nearby, or they are going to go visit with some friends. So it could take anywhere between, you know, an hour to three hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Depending on the will of the taxi driver. But it was like a two hour ride up up there. It wasn't very long and it was nice to get up there. And I would then usually go to the supermarket and treat myself to some chocolate, chocolate from Switzerland and then maybe cheese too. And then I just I had that and just hoard it for the next few months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For me, the Catholic Church was a refuge too. There was a Catholic church in the big city that was near us and we went in about once a month and we, we were able to, myself and the other volunteer that I was with, we were able to stay at the, I guess it was a monastery or whatever. The brothers were there. And in exchange for the room and board, basically, we conducted Catholic Church services on Sunday because there was an American airbase there, but none of the brothers knew English. So in order to have an English service, they needed somebody to conduct it. And my father's a minister, so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I just got up there and read the scripture and sang the hymns in return for room and board so."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 24.95438688507518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Depending on the will of the taxi driver. But it was like a two hour ride up up there. It wasn't very long and it was nice to get up there. And I would then usually go to the supermarket and treat myself to some chocolate, chocolate from Switzerland and then maybe cheese too. And then I just I had that and just hoard it for the next few months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For me, the Catholic Church was a refuge too. There was a Catholic church in the big city that was near us and we went in about once a month and we, we were able to, myself and the other volunteer that I was with, we were able to stay at the, I guess it was a monastery or whatever. The brothers were there. And in exchange for the room and board, basically, we conducted Catholic Church services on Sunday because there was an American airbase there, but none of the brothers knew English. So in order to have an English service, they needed somebody to conduct it. And my father's a minister, so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I just got up there and read the scripture and sang the hymns in return for room and board so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never got tired of hearing what Father Love's stories about first coming there. And the people, the people loved him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your life and work change over the first, you know, few months or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.28265209452798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I just got up there and read the scripture and sang the hymns in return for room and board so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never got tired of hearing what Father Love's stories about first coming there. And the people, the people loved him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your life and work change over the first, you know, few months or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still just taught for the two years and I didn't, um, have a lot of projects. I guess the biggest thing was I got more confident in trying to encourage the women to go to, come to high school. I think the first year I was there, I really didn't try to, um, push any kind of philosophies or whatever on anybody. And so the majority of the, the vast majority of the high school students were men. And most of the women in my village, by 13 they were taken as a wife, and then their life was set that way. And I think the second year I really had a woman's club where I tried to get the young girls to, to come. And we could talk about things and try to encourage them to go to high school. It was hard for them to, the few of them that went because they were ridiculed and then those that did stick it out and did learn and went on. That was, that was worthwhile."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Try to kind of, uh, encapsulate the, the end of your first year. You know, your joys and woes, unexpected things that happened, relationships, health problems."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 26.725174340916293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I really can't delineate one year to the next year. I just think gradually every month I just became more acclimated to everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure the first six months I did a lot of watching, I didn't. I taught, of course, but, and I asked questions. But I really stayed back a little bit and just tried to get used to things. And I never tried to force my own ideas or opinions on anybody. And I think just, just became more acclimated to things and more willing to give your ideas and differ with people. And even the things like just telling a joke. I would never have, just what, what makes, you know, in a certain community or a certain culture, some things are funny and some things aren't funny. I was well into my second year when I actually made a joke that the, that my students laughed at. I mean, they always were laughing at me, but believe me, it wasn't any, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was you and not your jokes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly. You know, so it just sort of a gradual osmosis into the, into the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there, did you have any unexpected things happen or great joys or low points or high points? Or any health problems?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.472415934351435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure the first six months I did a lot of watching, I didn't. I taught, of course, but, and I asked questions. But I really stayed back a little bit and just tried to get used to things. And I never tried to force my own ideas or opinions on anybody. And I think just, just became more acclimated to things and more willing to give your ideas and differ with people. And even the things like just telling a joke. I would never have, just what, what makes, you know, in a certain community or a certain culture, some things are funny and some things aren't funny. I was well into my second year when I actually made a joke that the, that my students laughed at. I mean, they always were laughing at me, but believe me, it wasn't any, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was you and not your jokes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly. You know, so it just sort of a gradual osmosis into the, into the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there, did you have any unexpected things happen or great joys or low points or high points? Or any health problems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, I got malaria and I always had mild cases, but I had several bouts with malaria, even taking my little two pills every Sunday. Um, outside of that. Oh, the other thing, I guess. One of my trips into the, the, into the bush, I accidentally stepped on the devil ants and they, they really bit me and I had, and I get, I got all infected in my ankle. Um, but yeah, I survived that. So health wise it was only that. When I first got, the first three months that I was in my house, there were around eight snakes discovered in and around my house. And I, obviously I do not like snakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Discovered by somebody else?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 30.524906593723816, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly. You know, so it just sort of a gradual osmosis into the, into the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there, did you have any unexpected things happen or great joys or low points or high points? Or any health problems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, I got malaria and I always had mild cases, but I had several bouts with malaria, even taking my little two pills every Sunday. Um, outside of that. Oh, the other thing, I guess. One of my trips into the, the, into the bush, I accidentally stepped on the devil ants and they, they really bit me and I had, and I get, I got all infected in my ankle. Um, but yeah, I survived that. So health wise it was only that. When I first got, the first three months that I was in my house, there were around eight snakes discovered in and around my house. And I, obviously I do not like snakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Discovered by somebody else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were discovered by other people, yeah. I think I just tried to take a blind eye. I mean, one time, I, uh. One of my students came over to my house and he found a snake and it was wound up right under my bed. Lord knows how long it had been there, but they got it out. Um, so. I didn't even want to go home. At one. [tape break]\n\nJust told me about the snake society where the zoos, the special medicine men, would know about taking care of snakes. So the head of the snake society came to my house and he put some kind of paste or something around, around the outside of my house and said some words. And I never had any more snakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, what, did you have a regular Peace Corps doctor or where did you go for, like with the ants? Did you have to go anywhere to get?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.959518440910377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't have any plumbing, but it had a toilet that looked like anybody, any toilet here in America. But then we had to keep, we had to put special stuff in it and we had to flush it with buckets of water after, after it started to stink."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a big hole that it went into it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. Lord only knows what happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Under the whole house stank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but in most of the houses you'd have to go out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.621687156567085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. Lord only knows what happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Under the whole house stank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but in most of the houses you'd have to go out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Or in any time I left or went out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you were basically in the same place the whole time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.174922415514919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Or in any time I left or went out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you were basically in the same place the whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Uh. Anything else about, that you might want to say about the, the volunteers or the Peace Corps staff or anything like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.749913795016576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Uh. Anything else about, that you might want to say about the, the volunteers or the Peace Corps staff or anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I still, my group still stays in contact with each other. And we've had several reunions and they're, even though years may go by, when you do see them, there's a bond there. All, and many of the direct, the director and the assistant director and the medical staff, many of them participate in our reunions and they were always very supportive. I always felt that I had their support, but they didn't push it on me. When I, when I was dropped off in Sanniquellie, there was nobody that called me or talked to me for months and months and months. But I knew that the Peace Corps jeep came once a week with my mail and stuff, that if I needed something that, that John, who was the driver, would get things to them. I've always felt I had their support, but I also felt like they put me out there and do your own thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all the Peace Corps mail came into a central place?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.388793105573973, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Uh. Anything else about, that you might want to say about the, the volunteers or the Peace Corps staff or anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I still, my group still stays in contact with each other. And we've had several reunions and they're, even though years may go by, when you do see them, there's a bond there. All, and many of the direct, the director and the assistant director and the medical staff, many of them participate in our reunions and they were always very supportive. I always felt that I had their support, but they didn't push it on me. When I, when I was dropped off in Sanniquellie, there was nobody that called me or talked to me for months and months and months. But I knew that the Peace Corps jeep came once a week with my mail and stuff, that if I needed something that, that John, who was the driver, would get things to them. I've always felt I had their support, but I also felt like they put me out there and do your own thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all the Peace Corps mail came into a central place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then they, they actually had a truck that delivered it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.876436783971081, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I still, my group still stays in contact with each other. And we've had several reunions and they're, even though years may go by, when you do see them, there's a bond there. All, and many of the direct, the director and the assistant director and the medical staff, many of them participate in our reunions and they were always very supportive. I always felt that I had their support, but they didn't push it on me. When I, when I was dropped off in Sanniquellie, there was nobody that called me or talked to me for months and months and months. But I knew that the Peace Corps jeep came once a week with my mail and stuff, that if I needed something that, that John, who was the driver, would get things to them. I've always felt I had their support, but I also felt like they put me out there and do your own thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all the Peace Corps mail came into a central place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then they, they actually had a truck that delivered it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a Liberian man and it was his job. His name was John, and it was an old Army jeep. And it came, usually it was a Tuesday, and he came with our mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you couldn't get mail through the regular mail system?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.418263093301201, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then they, they actually had a truck that delivered it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a Liberian man and it was his job. His name was John, and it was an old Army jeep. And it came, usually it was a Tuesday, and he came with our mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you couldn't get mail through the regular mail system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn't any mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, there wasn't any?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.020292325890224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a Liberian man and it was his job. His name was John, and it was an old Army jeep. And it came, usually it was a Tuesday, and he came with our mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you couldn't get mail through the regular mail system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn't any mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, there wasn't any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about telephone?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6892136954335815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn't any mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, there wasn't any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about telephone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was no telephone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No telephone. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.432459661592868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about telephone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was no telephone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No telephone. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And no email. There was nothing like that, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, let's see. I guess, do you have any big regrets or anything that was an outstanding satisfaction to you that you'd like to talk about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.036066290658742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was no telephone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No telephone. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And no email. There was nothing like that, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, let's see. I guess, do you have any big regrets or anything that was an outstanding satisfaction to you that you'd like to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I might have been a better Peace Corps volunteer, and I certainly would have paid better attention, if I had been older. I think I mentioned to you that when you're young, I was 22, and there was so much about the culture that I just didn't bother to pay attention to. I didn't keep, uh, any kind of a journal, which was very foolish on my part. I didn't record the music that I heard. I didn't try to get, I brought very few artifacts home, and when I did, it was like. I said, I realized, oh my God, I'm leaving in a couple of weeks. I've got to get some things. And just, I just didn't take advantage, I think, like I could have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you write home regularly or is there any record of your writing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.7067403229541585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And no email. There was nothing like that, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, let's see. I guess, do you have any big regrets or anything that was an outstanding satisfaction to you that you'd like to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I might have been a better Peace Corps volunteer, and I certainly would have paid better attention, if I had been older. I think I mentioned to you that when you're young, I was 22, and there was so much about the culture that I just didn't bother to pay attention to. I didn't keep, uh, any kind of a journal, which was very foolish on my part. I didn't record the music that I heard. I didn't try to get, I brought very few artifacts home, and when I did, it was like. I said, I realized, oh my God, I'm leaving in a couple of weeks. I've got to get some things. And just, I just didn't take advantage, I think, like I could have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you write home regularly or is there any record of your writing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mother did keep all of my, my, um, all of my letters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because that's often something to build on."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.340822581060176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I might have been a better Peace Corps volunteer, and I certainly would have paid better attention, if I had been older. I think I mentioned to you that when you're young, I was 22, and there was so much about the culture that I just didn't bother to pay attention to. I didn't keep, uh, any kind of a journal, which was very foolish on my part. I didn't record the music that I heard. I didn't try to get, I brought very few artifacts home, and when I did, it was like. I said, I realized, oh my God, I'm leaving in a couple of weeks. I've got to get some things. And just, I just didn't take advantage, I think, like I could have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you write home regularly or is there any record of your writing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mother did keep all of my, my, um, all of my letters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because that's often something to build on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what she said, you know? And I never, I think I did read them about ten years after I came home, but I have them somewhere. I still do have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be a good thing to, uh, to get into. I know I sent letters all along and it's, you know, it really is. You know, it's how you were feeling at the time and what you did and."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.934247312289084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mother did keep all of my, my, um, all of my letters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because that's often something to build on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what she said, you know? And I never, I think I did read them about ten years after I came home, but I have them somewhere. I still do have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be a good thing to, uh, to get into. I know I sent letters all along and it's, you know, it really is. You know, it's how you were feeling at the time and what you did and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and a matter of fact, the letters really, they were to my mother and father. But I grew up in a very close neighborhood where all the, we all knew each other. And so when the mailman brought my mail, which was one of those air letters, so they knew it. You know, he'd always say, you know, Stella, we got a letter, we got a letter. And all the neighborhood came and sat down and she had to read it out loud. So I had to be careful what I said sometimes because it was news for the whole, the whole area. The mailman even waited and had to hear the story, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, um. Let's see. Did you mention what you planned to do when you got back, or did you make any plans there at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.593608124765649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what she said, you know? And I never, I think I did read them about ten years after I came home, but I have them somewhere. I still do have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be a good thing to, uh, to get into. I know I sent letters all along and it's, you know, it really is. You know, it's how you were feeling at the time and what you did and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and a matter of fact, the letters really, they were to my mother and father. But I grew up in a very close neighborhood where all the, we all knew each other. And so when the mailman brought my mail, which was one of those air letters, so they knew it. You know, he'd always say, you know, Stella, we got a letter, we got a letter. And all the neighborhood came and sat down and she had to read it out loud. So I had to be careful what I said sometimes because it was news for the whole, the whole area. The mailman even waited and had to hear the story, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, um. Let's see. Did you mention what you planned to do when you got back, or did you make any plans there at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't make any plans there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I guess now I'm going to have you kind of evaluate your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps. The first one is to provide technical assistance where requested. How do you feel you did in that area?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.32623124973961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and a matter of fact, the letters really, they were to my mother and father. But I grew up in a very close neighborhood where all the, we all knew each other. And so when the mailman brought my mail, which was one of those air letters, so they knew it. You know, he'd always say, you know, Stella, we got a letter, we got a letter. And all the neighborhood came and sat down and she had to read it out loud. So I had to be careful what I said sometimes because it was news for the whole, the whole area. The mailman even waited and had to hear the story, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, um. Let's see. Did you mention what you planned to do when you got back, or did you make any plans there at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't make any plans there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I guess now I'm going to have you kind of evaluate your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps. The first one is to provide technical assistance where requested. How do you feel you did in that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, being a person who's been in education 30 years, I think that's, that's the start of any kind of society. So, um, I think we were successful there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you taught like high school, but when you came back, you, you went back to early childhood? Is there any reason for that or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9180347219329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't make any plans there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I guess now I'm going to have you kind of evaluate your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps. The first one is to provide technical assistance where requested. How do you feel you did in that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, being a person who's been in education 30 years, I think that's, that's the start of any kind of society. So, um, I think we were successful there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you taught like high school, but when you came back, you, you went back to early childhood? Is there any reason for that or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came back in the middle of the school year, and that was the job opening. I really didn't think I was going to. I thought when I finished my Peace Corps, I planned to go and get my master's in history and social studies. And I really saw myself as being a history teacher at the high school and like running model UN and taking the students overseas. You know, that was what I planned to do. And I came back in the middle of the school year and a friend of mine from high school knew that there was a job opening in this one district at kindergarten. And I said, well, I'll just take it to get working and get my foot in the door and then move on up. And lo and behold, I never did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The second goal is to provide a better understanding of the United States, you know, for the country that you are in. How do you think you did in that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.5755941354809995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, being a person who's been in education 30 years, I think that's, that's the start of any kind of society. So, um, I think we were successful there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you taught like high school, but when you came back, you, you went back to early childhood? Is there any reason for that or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came back in the middle of the school year, and that was the job opening. I really didn't think I was going to. I thought when I finished my Peace Corps, I planned to go and get my master's in history and social studies. And I really saw myself as being a history teacher at the high school and like running model UN and taking the students overseas. You know, that was what I planned to do. And I came back in the middle of the school year and a friend of mine from high school knew that there was a job opening in this one district at kindergarten. And I said, well, I'll just take it to get working and get my foot in the door and then move on up. And lo and behold, I never did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The second goal is to provide a better understanding of the United States, you know, for the country that you are in. How do you think you did in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I said before, I guess it's just a matter of them looking, not looking at this big country, but as individuals that make up that country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And the third goal is to promote a better understanding of other peoples by Americans. So I don't know if you want to, you know, that's probably been done, you know, after you've come back. But did you do anything to, you know, talks or anything with Americans to help them understand your experience OR?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.0069063401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I said before, I guess it's just a matter of them looking, not looking at this big country, but as individuals that make up that country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And the third goal is to promote a better understanding of other peoples by Americans. So I don't know if you want to, you know, that's probably been done, you know, after you've come back. But did you do anything to, you know, talks or anything with Americans to help them understand your experience OR?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my early years of teaching, I would always do, um, show my slides and stuff to all the, all the grade levels throughout the year and give a presentation about Liberia. And very often kindergartners, it's, you know, Africa is not in the kindergarten curriculum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I would, I often would flip flop and have like the fifth grade teacher, because the fifth grade is where they do the world, and do units with them. And then somebody would take over my class. I did that for years and then I just stopped doing it. Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Through the years, have you continued any kind of involvement with your country of service or contact with people from that country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.6733969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for years I did hear from my students when, um, when there were Peace Corps volunteers that could get the mail out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then in 1980, they had the civil war and everything broke down. And then I never heard from anybody anymore. And I haven't had any contact with any Liberians. I do hear here in the United States there are some, you know, some. I find out my sister, Molly Jo, has some Liberian children in her school. And I make a point of going over there and meeting them and sharing stories and that. But the one situation that I, that I have, and it's been fairly recent, I guess Peace Corps has a way for people from other countries to get in touch with former volunteers if they're interested. And I had a student, John, who through Peace Corps got my email address. And, well, they gave me his email address and I wrote him and then he wrote back.\n\nAnd he had been one of my students. And that's a long time ago. And he now is an engineer. And I wrote, when I sent him an email back and we shared what he was doing and what I was doing and what our life's been like, I asked him, you know, why did he, um, why was he interested in me? Because we had had, like I told you, they were all, they were all volunteers teaching at Sanniquellie High School. And he said that I made the beginning impact on him in science and math. And then he went on and he wanted me to know that he now was an engineer. And it was just, it was just like the greatest thing that anybody ever could have done for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though science and math weren't really what you were. But you inspired him somehow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the fact that he wanted to let me know. And we do now send, I get emails from him, from them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What about any continuing Peace Corps involvement? I guess you can mention your work in the."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.30049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the fact that he wanted to let me know. And we do now send, I get emails from him, from them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What about any continuing Peace Corps involvement? I guess you can mention your work in the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, since I moved here to Milwaukee, the Milwaukee Peace Corps Association is very active and I have been active with that. And I think we do a lot. We do a lot to try to educate Milwaukee about the rest of the world. And we try to raise money for partnership programs. And we participated in folk fairs and pushing teaching about Peace Corps and teaching about our interests. So yeah, this has given us a lot of opportunities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to say anything about your specific work with the calendars at all or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Uh. Are there any, what are some other third goal activities that you've been involved in? Or was your involvement with the Peace Corps returned group only started in Milwaukee or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.5561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, since I moved here to Milwaukee, the Milwaukee Peace Corps Association is very active and I have been active with that. And I think we do a lot. We do a lot to try to educate Milwaukee about the rest of the world. And we try to raise money for partnership programs. And we participated in folk fairs and pushing teaching about Peace Corps and teaching about our interests. So yeah, this has given us a lot of opportunities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to say anything about your specific work with the calendars at all or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Uh. Are there any, what are some other third goal activities that you've been involved in? Or was your involvement with the Peace Corps returned group only started in Milwaukee or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was nothing like that in the Rochester area or even western New York doesn't have anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they don't. And when did you come here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Uh. Are there any, what are some other third goal activities that you've been involved in? Or was your involvement with the Peace Corps returned group only started in Milwaukee or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was nothing like that in the Rochester area or even western New York doesn't have anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they don't. And when did you come here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "2000."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "2000. Okay. Well, I think that's pretty much it, unless you want to. Well, what about the effect that your Peace Corps service had on you, either an immediate effect or did it change you or did it contribute to your career plans, things like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "2000."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "2000. Okay. Well, I think that's pretty much it, unless you want to. Well, what about the effect that your Peace Corps service had on you, either an immediate effect or did it change you or did it contribute to your career plans, things like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never take a hot shower for granted. I still adore it. I just think I, I'm a better person for having that experience. I have, in many ways, I have a greater appreciation for the United States of America. And I'm very happy that I'm an American and I live here. But sometimes when you're taking, when you step away, then you can see better about some of our faults and some of our, we're misguided in some ways. And I don't think anybody can, unless you really live in another culture, you can't always evaluate your own culture very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don't have that frame of reference. And I just think that having that opportunity to actually live in another culture helps you appreciate and understand your own culture better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a good thought. Do you have any like words of wisdom or anything you'd like to impart to people who may be listening to this in years to come?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never take a hot shower for granted. I still adore it. I just think I, I'm a better person for having that experience. I have, in many ways, I have a greater appreciation for the United States of America. And I'm very happy that I'm an American and I live here. But sometimes when you're taking, when you step away, then you can see better about some of our faults and some of our, we're misguided in some ways. And I don't think anybody can, unless you really live in another culture, you can't always evaluate your own culture very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don't have that frame of reference. And I just think that having that opportunity to actually live in another culture helps you appreciate and understand your own culture better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a good thought. Do you have any like words of wisdom or anything you'd like to impart to people who may be listening to this in years to come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just that I had, I think I mentioned it. I just don't think I took as much advantage of my opportunities as I could have. And the recording, you think you'll always remember something, but you don't remember it, so you really do need to document your feelings and the experiences you've had and. Because you do forget."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's that expression? Youth? Youth is wasted on the youth."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don't have that frame of reference. And I just think that having that opportunity to actually live in another culture helps you appreciate and understand your own culture better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a good thought. Do you have any like words of wisdom or anything you'd like to impart to people who may be listening to this in years to come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just that I had, I think I mentioned it. I just don't think I took as much advantage of my opportunities as I could have. And the recording, you think you'll always remember something, but you don't remember it, so you really do need to document your feelings and the experiences you've had and. Because you do forget."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's that expression? Youth? Youth is wasted on the youth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yes. Because I, I think about that when I see Zidra. I'm thinking, man, if I went, was in that situation a little bit older, I might have even. I would have just had a more, a more of an appreciation for what I had or what I experienced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any chance that you think you'll ever go back to Liberia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00241:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just that I had, I think I mentioned it. I just don't think I took as much advantage of my opportunities as I could have. And the recording, you think you'll always remember something, but you don't remember it, so you really do need to document your feelings and the experiences you've had and. Because you do forget."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's that expression? Youth? Youth is wasted on the youth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yes. Because I, I think about that when I see Zidra. I'm thinking, man, if I went, was in that situation a little bit older, I might have even. I would have just had a more, a more of an appreciation for what I had or what I experienced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any chance that you think you'll ever go back to Liberia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, something I've been thinking about recently, because they do, it has opened back up. And there is a program now for volunteers who have previously been in Liberia to go and work with the teachers. And it's a, and I have thought about it. I'm just not quite sure my health is ready for it and can do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, I've been back a couple of times, and to me it's really rewarding. You know, the people really express how much you meant, even though they didn't at the time, you know?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00491:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 44.435193838264134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we move on to the next one, it’s about forty-five minutes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Why don’t we take a short break. Can we do that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes.\\n\\n [pause]\n\nIs there anything you want to add about the Life Sciences area before you move on to another division? I do have one question. Maybe it’s a reflection. The success of the first experiments that were sent up on the Shuttle, can you share with us what that was like, of knowing when it came back and it worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were given a very short period of time to develop that OSTA-1 payload and get it integrated into the Shuttle and flown. A couple of folks that worked for me spent a lot of time at the Cape, working with the Cape on integrating and what have you. [Richard A.] Dick Moke and [M.] Jay Harnage [Jr.], I think, were the two folks who sort of went through that whole process.\\n\\n But it was very, very short time. We had some problems with structural integrity of the truss. We found out that some of the landing loads might be a little excessive, so we had to go in and do some beef-up at the last minute to make sure it would survive both launch and landing.\\n\\n But it was quite an accomplishment, I thought, for us to get it integrated, get it up there, have it work very well, and get it back in one piece so we could fly it again. It was a pretty good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the shortened mission have any effect on what your expectations were for the results?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00491:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 49.37243759807126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Why don’t we take a short break. Can we do that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes.\\n\\n [pause]\n\nIs there anything you want to add about the Life Sciences area before you move on to another division? I do have one question. Maybe it’s a reflection. The success of the first experiments that were sent up on the Shuttle, can you share with us what that was like, of knowing when it came back and it worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were given a very short period of time to develop that OSTA-1 payload and get it integrated into the Shuttle and flown. A couple of folks that worked for me spent a lot of time at the Cape, working with the Cape on integrating and what have you. [Richard A.] Dick Moke and [M.] Jay Harnage [Jr.], I think, were the two folks who sort of went through that whole process.\\n\\n But it was very, very short time. We had some problems with structural integrity of the truss. We found out that some of the landing loads might be a little excessive, so we had to go in and do some beef-up at the last minute to make sure it would survive both launch and landing.\\n\\n But it was quite an accomplishment, I thought, for us to get it integrated, get it up there, have it work very well, and get it back in one piece so we could fly it again. It was a pretty good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the shortened mission have any effect on what your expectations were for the results?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course. We didn’t get all the data that we wanted to get."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was a beginning, wasn’t it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00491:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 54.85826399785695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were given a very short period of time to develop that OSTA-1 payload and get it integrated into the Shuttle and flown. A couple of folks that worked for me spent a lot of time at the Cape, working with the Cape on integrating and what have you. [Richard A.] Dick Moke and [M.] Jay Harnage [Jr.], I think, were the two folks who sort of went through that whole process.\\n\\n But it was very, very short time. We had some problems with structural integrity of the truss. We found out that some of the landing loads might be a little excessive, so we had to go in and do some beef-up at the last minute to make sure it would survive both launch and landing.\\n\\n But it was quite an accomplishment, I thought, for us to get it integrated, get it up there, have it work very well, and get it back in one piece so we could fly it again. It was a pretty good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the shortened mission have any effect on what your expectations were for the results?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course. We didn’t get all the data that we wanted to get."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was a beginning, wasn’t it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a beginning, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What division would you like to talk about now?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00491:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 60.750288062577276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not right off the top of my head. They did a lot of chemistry, looking at the chemical makeup of the basically basalt; that was [what] most of the rocks were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the interest continued."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The interest continued in just understanding the history of a rock, how long it had been there. They were interested in seismic activity on the Moon, stuff like that, and we did get some of that information from ALSEP. Some of the experiments on ALSEP were to detect moonquakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was interesting that those two pieces of your career kind of tied back in together with the rocks. Any issues of missing rock? There was, not too long ago, an attempt to take some rocks from JSC—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, is that right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and I was just curious if you ever had any issues of—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00491:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 67.5003200695303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The interest continued in just understanding the history of a rock, how long it had been there. They were interested in seismic activity on the Moon, stuff like that, and we did get some of that information from ALSEP. Some of the experiments on ALSEP were to detect moonquakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was interesting that those two pieces of your career kind of tied back in together with the rocks. Any issues of missing rock? There was, not too long ago, an attempt to take some rocks from JSC—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, is that right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and I was just curious if you ever had any issues of—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There may have been one or two incidents where someone acquired one the wrong way and offered it for sale or something, but we kept a pretty close eye on the stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty unique items."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00491:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 60.555911188367006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, is that right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and I was just curious if you ever had any issues of—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There may have been one or two incidents where someone acquired one the wrong way and offered it for sale or something, but we kept a pretty close eye on the stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty unique items."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. When you saw it up, of course, you have some sawdust. The sample gets smaller and smaller as you keep cutting it. But anyway, no, I’d have to think about that one some more.\\n\\n Earth Resources. The Secretary of Agriculture had, after LACIE, come up with a new initiative, called AgRISTARS [Agriculture & Resources Inventory Surveys Through Aerospace Remote Sensing], that was, again, a cooperative program between NASA, USDA [United States Department of Agriculture], and NOAA [National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration], primarily, with the State Department—AID [USAID, United States Agency for International Development] was then part of State Department—and Department of Interior. The idea of AgRISTARS was that there were eight crops, I guess, including wheat, but seven other crops of interest on a global basis; barley, rice in Asia. So we undertook to try to develop experiments that would let us identify these other crops besides wheat. That program, I think, ran about three years before it was cancelled. It was, again, using Landsat data, using aircraft, and using ground truth from Agriculture, from USDA, to validate the satellite data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How well did it work, combining the talents of NASA, other federal agencies, universities, industry? You had to bring all those together to make this program work."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00491:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.3, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fred Haise. Worked for Fred Haise. Senior advisor role for a while, in order to make sure there weren’t any ethics problems with my going to work for Grumman on Space Station. But, yes, I worked for Fred Haise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure you enjoyed seeing him behind a desk. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. Fredo had many, many stories to tell. He really did. He had an interesting career. They had a bunch of rebuilt World War II airplanes down at Galveston [Texas] and he was flying one of those and crashed and was severely burned. But he survived a lot of things in his life. I haven’t had any contact with him in a few years. He was up to TRW [Inc.] about, probably, five years ago, gave a speech at a luncheon that they had on Veterans Day or something, and I went out and saw him again. He did his Apollo 13 speech, showed clips from the movie and clips from his camera, his videocamera, that he’d taken. Of course, he was an advisor to them when they made the movie, so you could expect it to be very, very close to reality, other than the fact that, in the movie—and I can understand why they never did it—it was like all mission control did the whole thing. There was no credit given to the contractors. In fact, they made Grumman kind of look silly in the movie, if you remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They did, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They kind of, like, “Well, it wasn’t designed to do that.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00491:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 7.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. Fredo had many, many stories to tell. He really did. He had an interesting career. They had a bunch of rebuilt World War II airplanes down at Galveston [Texas] and he was flying one of those and crashed and was severely burned. But he survived a lot of things in his life. I haven’t had any contact with him in a few years. He was up to TRW [Inc.] about, probably, five years ago, gave a speech at a luncheon that they had on Veterans Day or something, and I went out and saw him again. He did his Apollo 13 speech, showed clips from the movie and clips from his camera, his videocamera, that he’d taken. Of course, he was an advisor to them when they made the movie, so you could expect it to be very, very close to reality, other than the fact that, in the movie—and I can understand why they never did it—it was like all mission control did the whole thing. There was no credit given to the contractors. In fact, they made Grumman kind of look silly in the movie, if you remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They did, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They kind of, like, “Well, it wasn’t designed to do that.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Remember that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Well, your career with NASA was somewhat diverse and extremely challenging at different points. Is there a time that you would feel is the most significant accomplishment of everything that you’ve done, something that, when you look back, it’s your proudest moment that you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00491:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They kind of, like, “Well, it wasn’t designed to do that.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Remember that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Well, your career with NASA was somewhat diverse and extremely challenging at different points. Is there a time that you would feel is the most significant accomplishment of everything that you’ve done, something that, when you look back, it’s your proudest moment that you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to say the Apollo lunar landing was the highlight. I used to think that everything after that would be anticlimactic in life, but, you know, that’s not the case, because I went on to find a lot of other interesting things to do after the Apollo lunar landing. Wouldn’t take for the experience. Great experience. I’m just glad that I was a part of it.\\n\\n Those were the glorious days of NASA. I look back on that time in NASA and the competency of the people, the drive that they had, the sacrifices that they made of personal time. I mean, it was hard. We were working twelve, fourteen hours a day, and sometimes seven days a week to meet schedules, to stay on time. But I wouldn’t take for the experience. It was great. It was great being part of the team, it was great working with guys—[Arnold D.] Arnie Aldrich and [Richard H.] Dick Kohrs and George [M.] Low. These were giants in pulling together and managing a team of people to accomplish that.\\n\\n It wasn’t the end. I went on to find a lot of other interesting things, and I’m still finding interesting things to do, even today. I’m working with FAA [Federal Aviation Administration] on air traffic system safety and the challenges, the experience, and know-how has application. And I still feel like, in a way, I’m out there pushing the frontier back in this area with FAA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you have many more years of exciting times ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00491:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Remember that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Well, your career with NASA was somewhat diverse and extremely challenging at different points. Is there a time that you would feel is the most significant accomplishment of everything that you’ve done, something that, when you look back, it’s your proudest moment that you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to say the Apollo lunar landing was the highlight. I used to think that everything after that would be anticlimactic in life, but, you know, that’s not the case, because I went on to find a lot of other interesting things to do after the Apollo lunar landing. Wouldn’t take for the experience. Great experience. I’m just glad that I was a part of it.\\n\\n Those were the glorious days of NASA. I look back on that time in NASA and the competency of the people, the drive that they had, the sacrifices that they made of personal time. I mean, it was hard. We were working twelve, fourteen hours a day, and sometimes seven days a week to meet schedules, to stay on time. But I wouldn’t take for the experience. It was great. It was great being part of the team, it was great working with guys—[Arnold D.] Arnie Aldrich and [Richard H.] Dick Kohrs and George [M.] Low. These were giants in pulling together and managing a team of people to accomplish that.\\n\\n It wasn’t the end. I went on to find a lot of other interesting things, and I’m still finding interesting things to do, even today. I’m working with FAA [Federal Aviation Administration] on air traffic system safety and the challenges, the experience, and know-how has application. And I still feel like, in a way, I’m out there pushing the frontier back in this area with FAA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you have many more years of exciting times ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you for the time this morning."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00491:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to say the Apollo lunar landing was the highlight. I used to think that everything after that would be anticlimactic in life, but, you know, that’s not the case, because I went on to find a lot of other interesting things to do after the Apollo lunar landing. Wouldn’t take for the experience. Great experience. I’m just glad that I was a part of it.\\n\\n Those were the glorious days of NASA. I look back on that time in NASA and the competency of the people, the drive that they had, the sacrifices that they made of personal time. I mean, it was hard. We were working twelve, fourteen hours a day, and sometimes seven days a week to meet schedules, to stay on time. But I wouldn’t take for the experience. It was great. It was great being part of the team, it was great working with guys—[Arnold D.] Arnie Aldrich and [Richard H.] Dick Kohrs and George [M.] Low. These were giants in pulling together and managing a team of people to accomplish that.\\n\\n It wasn’t the end. I went on to find a lot of other interesting things, and I’m still finding interesting things to do, even today. I’m working with FAA [Federal Aviation Administration] on air traffic system safety and the challenges, the experience, and know-how has application. And I still feel like, in a way, I’m out there pushing the frontier back in this area with FAA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you have many more years of exciting times ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you for the time this morning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you’d like to add or can think of before we close?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00491:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you for the time this morning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you’d like to add or can think of before we close?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you do, let us know and we’ll pick up where we left off."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00325:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.131672700000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, just exactly like a greenleaf punch, male, female die, and that worked quite well. We demonstrated how that all worked, and I got a—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There had to be a hole there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had to drill a half inch—let's see—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then they'd fill that hole up—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they plug the hole after launch. Yes. That's all it had, is just one single hole so that the shaft of the piston cylinder could go inside. Right. And they mounted those. We changed from three hatches to nine. We had them expeditiously set all around in different elevations. So they installed those everywhere, and they went through all the follow-on missions feeling much more secure about these guys that might get trapped in there. That was one of my patents. It's kind of neat.\\n\\n This is one of the typical rods, and that's the knob there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is you in the Control Center as parasail expert."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00325:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.146303000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had to drill a half inch—let's see—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then they'd fill that hole up—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they plug the hole after launch. Yes. That's all it had, is just one single hole so that the shaft of the piston cylinder could go inside. Right. And they mounted those. We changed from three hatches to nine. We had them expeditiously set all around in different elevations. So they installed those everywhere, and they went through all the follow-on missions feeling much more secure about these guys that might get trapped in there. That was one of my patents. It's kind of neat.\\n\\n This is one of the typical rods, and that's the knob there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is you in the Control Center as parasail expert."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we skipped that. This is Chris Kraft, Sig [Sigurd A.] Sjoberg, and Kenny—oh, boy. Anyway, he was one of the main guys; I can't think of his last name. And myself. We're in there, and I'm talking about the deployment sequence in Mission Control the night of the event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel? Were you pretty tired at this point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00325:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.273670000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they plug the hole after launch. Yes. That's all it had, is just one single hole so that the shaft of the piston cylinder could go inside. Right. And they mounted those. We changed from three hatches to nine. We had them expeditiously set all around in different elevations. So they installed those everywhere, and they went through all the follow-on missions feeling much more secure about these guys that might get trapped in there. That was one of my patents. It's kind of neat.\\n\\n This is one of the typical rods, and that's the knob there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is you in the Control Center as parasail expert."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we skipped that. This is Chris Kraft, Sig [Sigurd A.] Sjoberg, and Kenny—oh, boy. Anyway, he was one of the main guys; I can't think of his last name. And myself. We're in there, and I'm talking about the deployment sequence in Mission Control the night of the event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel? Were you pretty tired at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not much sleep, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00325:60", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.5263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we skipped that. This is Chris Kraft, Sig [Sigurd A.] Sjoberg, and Kenny—oh, boy. Anyway, he was one of the main guys; I can't think of his last name. And myself. We're in there, and I'm talking about the deployment sequence in Mission Control the night of the event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel? Were you pretty tired at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not much sleep, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I show it. My hair is all fluffy and raggedy-looking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You look like the typical scientist, the mad scientist."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00325:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not much sleep, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I show it. My hair is all fluffy and raggedy-looking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You look like the typical scientist, the mad scientist."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know! [Laughter] Unfortunately, I don't fit that classification, but you're right, I just look like one of those wacky guys. Anyway, these are the tubes that we used. Oh, here they are, all in a nice little bag. They just have a male thread on one end and a female thread on the other, and they just go together.\\n\\n Okay. This is a famous picture. In a press conference after the successful deployment, I held up a picture, and then they put this in the newspaper. Now, an interesting aside, for the next year—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is this a picture of?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00325:64", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.23, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I show it. My hair is all fluffy and raggedy-looking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You look like the typical scientist, the mad scientist."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know! [Laughter] Unfortunately, I don't fit that classification, but you're right, I just look like one of those wacky guys. Anyway, these are the tubes that we used. Oh, here they are, all in a nice little bag. They just have a male thread on one end and a female thread on the other, and they just go together.\\n\\n Okay. This is a famous picture. In a press conference after the successful deployment, I held up a picture, and then they put this in the newspaper. Now, an interesting aside, for the next year—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is this a picture of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the parasail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Similar to one of the ones that you show—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00325:66", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 14.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know! [Laughter] Unfortunately, I don't fit that classification, but you're right, I just look like one of those wacky guys. Anyway, these are the tubes that we used. Oh, here they are, all in a nice little bag. They just have a male thread on one end and a female thread on the other, and they just go together.\\n\\n Okay. This is a famous picture. In a press conference after the successful deployment, I held up a picture, and then they put this in the newspaper. Now, an interesting aside, for the next year—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is this a picture of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the parasail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Similar to one of the ones that you show—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And here's an artist's sketch of the parasail in place here. But when this happened, it went around the entire world, and I wound up getting 200 requests for autographs and my signature, mostly on these first day cards, stamp-collector type—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First day of issue."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.769214284625347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I joined Peace Corps because I had been thinking about working in a foreign country, and I didn't know how to go about it. One day when I was looking at the newspaper, it was the Sunday paper from San Francisco, because at that time I was living in Oakland, California. I saw an ad for Peace Corps volunteers in Kenya for cooperatives. That Monday, I called and talked to a representative who then obtained an application for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it. I applied for a specific job in a specific country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how old were you when you applied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in my thirties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in your thirties, which is pretty late to be applying, at least in my day. People were much younger. I don't know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.764462079784378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in my thirties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in your thirties, which is pretty late to be applying, at least in my day. People were much younger. I don't know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even today there are some of the older people who will apply. And I was not one of the oldest because we had a woman in my group who was in her sixties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had a pretty good mix and there were three of us who had obtained our master's degrees. But by and, by and large the majority were recent college graduates and there were approximately 32 of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "32. So you, um, well, talk a little bit about your, your background. Where did you grow up? Did you grow up in Oakland?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 17.516068977538197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even today there are some of the older people who will apply. And I was not one of the oldest because we had a woman in my group who was in her sixties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had a pretty good mix and there were three of us who had obtained our master's degrees. But by and, by and large the majority were recent college graduates and there were approximately 32 of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "32. So you, um, well, talk a little bit about your, your background. Where did you grow up? Did you grow up in Oakland?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you grow up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.40255429325703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Taylors, South Carolina, which is within Greenville County. That's the largest city in South Carolina. I was educated in the Greenville County public schools. I graduated from Spelman College in Atlanta, Georgia, and then started working in New Jersey for AT&T. And at that time, AT&T offered us something that I couldn't give up. I couldn't say no to, and that was our master's degrees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They offered to pay for it at Fairleigh Dickinson University and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In New Jersey?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.336171436952254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Taylors, South Carolina, which is within Greenville County. That's the largest city in South Carolina. I was educated in the Greenville County public schools. I graduated from Spelman College in Atlanta, Georgia, and then started working in New Jersey for AT&T. And at that time, AT&T offered us something that I couldn't give up. I couldn't say no to, and that was our master's degrees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They offered to pay for it at Fairleigh Dickinson University and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In New Jersey?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in New Jersey. And at the time I matriculated through the Rutherford campus, which no longer exists. But that was how I got my master's degree, because AT&T offered to pay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your bachelor's and master's degree in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.262412707724726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They offered to pay for it at Fairleigh Dickinson University and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In New Jersey?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in New Jersey. And at the time I matriculated through the Rutherford campus, which no longer exists. But that was how I got my master's degree, because AT&T offered to pay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your bachelor's and master's degree in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My bachelor's degree is in psychology with a minor in history, and my master's degree is in finance. I have an MBA in finance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do at, um, at AT&T?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.291569675249695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in New Jersey. And at the time I matriculated through the Rutherford campus, which no longer exists. But that was how I got my master's degree, because AT&T offered to pay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your bachelor's and master's degree in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My bachelor's degree is in psychology with a minor in history, and my master's degree is in finance. I have an MBA in finance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do at, um, at AT&T?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's interesting, because when I told my advisor in college that I wanted I was going to major in psychology and minor in history, he said, and just what do you plan to do with that? And I said, I plan to get a job with a company that wants a college graduate and does not care what their major is in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you knew that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.435077416944106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My bachelor's degree is in psychology with a minor in history, and my master's degree is in finance. I have an MBA in finance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do at, um, at AT&T?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's interesting, because when I told my advisor in college that I wanted I was going to major in psychology and minor in history, he said, and just what do you plan to do with that? And I said, I plan to get a job with a company that wants a college graduate and does not care what their major is in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you knew that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found the job, AT&T. There were lots of us that they hired as security owner correspondents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say that again?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.685977252323873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Security owner correspondents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So what I did, um, I communicated with the shareholders and the bond holders any questions that they had, which meant that I needed to learn something about stocks and bonds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they had classes for us and we learned all of this. We learned all about wills and trusts, because some of the people, when they, when relatives or someone else would die, they would need to transfer that stock and the bonds into someone else's name. And, you know, we needed to see certain documentation. So it was, it was a good intro into business as well as estates. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you really didn't have much to do with telephones?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 17.428863613693192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So what I did, um, I communicated with the shareholders and the bond holders any questions that they had, which meant that I needed to learn something about stocks and bonds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they had classes for us and we learned all of this. We learned all about wills and trusts, because some of the people, when they, when relatives or someone else would die, they would need to transfer that stock and the bonds into someone else's name. And, you know, we needed to see certain documentation. So it was, it was a good intro into business as well as estates. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you really didn't have much to do with telephones?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, I had absolutely nothing to do with telephones. It was the, it was dealing with the shareholders."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you end up in Oakland, California?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.190485066794501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, after I got my master's degree, I decided that I wanted a change. You know, once again in my mind, I'm thinking I want to work and live in a foreign country. And so I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. And my brother, who lived in Oakland, California, said, well, why don't you come here? So I packed my bags and I moved to Oakland, California, and I worked in a bank there and, uh, it wasn't really what I wanted to do. And I kept looking for other positions and that one Sunday. I didn't usually buy the San Francisco Chronicle, but that Sunday I went out and bought the San Francisco Chronicle, and as I was looking through the want ads there it was. Peace Corps Kenya.\n\nSo why did you want to live overseas? Why did you want to work overseas?\n\nI have no idea. It's just that I've always had this desire to travel and to do things. I remember when I was in the fifth grade, 1959, that's when Alaska became a state. That's when Hawaii became a state. To this day, I cannot remember anything about a class where my teacher talked about Hawaii. I'm sure she did, but I have no recollection of it. But I do remember Alaska, and I remember her talking about Sitka being the capital of Alaska when Russia owned Alaska. And I kept saying, you know, here's this little girl in a rural area, little Black girl. And she said, I want to go to Alaska. I had no idea how I would ever get there, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I made it there. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your, so you applied, they responded, and they took you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.322761185327224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I made it there. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your, so you applied, they responded, and they took you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that take? Is that a?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.025290205919137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your, so you applied, they responded, and they took you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that take? Is that a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe it was in July that I applied and I was accepted right away because the month of August I left Oakland and spent the month of August in South Carolina with my mother. So then when I went back to Oakland, I had to go through my physical, and my physical was at the Alameda Naval Base. So I went through that. The doctor did not really want to pass me because I have bunions on my feet. And I'm like, they've been there as long as I can remember. And so he had me do some exercises, and so he said, okay, you can go.\n\nThen, uh, in October we went to Philadelphia, and that's where we had our staging. And of course, we had to go through all these psychological tests and there were more health things that were involved. And of course, I come across this ophthalmologist who does not want me to go because of my eyesight. And at the time I was wearing contact lenses. So I convinced him that I could wear ski goggles. I don't know. I don't ski. I have never been on skis, but I have seen people in ski gear. And I said, well, I can wear ski goggles. So he said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The problem, the problem was that you had contact lenses?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.694766895465707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that take? Is that a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe it was in July that I applied and I was accepted right away because the month of August I left Oakland and spent the month of August in South Carolina with my mother. So then when I went back to Oakland, I had to go through my physical, and my physical was at the Alameda Naval Base. So I went through that. The doctor did not really want to pass me because I have bunions on my feet. And I'm like, they've been there as long as I can remember. And so he had me do some exercises, and so he said, okay, you can go.\n\nThen, uh, in October we went to Philadelphia, and that's where we had our staging. And of course, we had to go through all these psychological tests and there were more health things that were involved. And of course, I come across this ophthalmologist who does not want me to go because of my eyesight. And at the time I was wearing contact lenses. So I convinced him that I could wear ski goggles. I don't know. I don't ski. I have never been on skis, but I have seen people in ski gear. And I said, well, I can wear ski goggles. So he said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The problem, the problem was that you had contact lenses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And he was saying, well, it's dusty. And I said, I can wear ski goggles. So he said, get yourself a pair of ski goggles and you can go. So I had a few little bumps along the way, but then next thing I know, I'm on a plane headed to Nairobi, Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said there were 32 people in your group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.438629883850786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe it was in July that I applied and I was accepted right away because the month of August I left Oakland and spent the month of August in South Carolina with my mother. So then when I went back to Oakland, I had to go through my physical, and my physical was at the Alameda Naval Base. So I went through that. The doctor did not really want to pass me because I have bunions on my feet. And I'm like, they've been there as long as I can remember. And so he had me do some exercises, and so he said, okay, you can go.\n\nThen, uh, in October we went to Philadelphia, and that's where we had our staging. And of course, we had to go through all these psychological tests and there were more health things that were involved. And of course, I come across this ophthalmologist who does not want me to go because of my eyesight. And at the time I was wearing contact lenses. So I convinced him that I could wear ski goggles. I don't know. I don't ski. I have never been on skis, but I have seen people in ski gear. And I said, well, I can wear ski goggles. So he said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The problem, the problem was that you had contact lenses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And he was saying, well, it's dusty. And I said, I can wear ski goggles. So he said, get yourself a pair of ski goggles and you can go. So I had a few little bumps along the way, but then next thing I know, I'm on a plane headed to Nairobi, Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said there were 32 people in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was around 32, but all of us were not cooperative volunteers. It was a mixed group. Some were music teachers and the rest of us were cooperative volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family think about your going?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.154033204278651, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And he was saying, well, it's dusty. And I said, I can wear ski goggles. So he said, get yourself a pair of ski goggles and you can go. So I had a few little bumps along the way, but then next thing I know, I'm on a plane headed to Nairobi, Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said there were 32 people in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was around 32, but all of us were not cooperative volunteers. It was a mixed group. Some were music teachers and the rest of us were cooperative volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family think about your going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, um, the only person who really questioned me was my mother, when I spent that month in South Carolina with her. One of our favorite places to go was always the library. And in the library there's this big giant globe and you can sit there and it twirls around. So we're looking at where we are. And as the globe moved around, I said, well, that's where I'm going. And so she said, well, why do you want to do this? Why are you going so far away? And I said, well, I think one of the reasons I want to do this is because I believe that had you had the chance, you would have done it. Because my mother loved to travel. But of course, having ten children, she wasn't really able to do too much traveling so. But so she just smiled and that's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.948925782531834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was around 32, but all of us were not cooperative volunteers. It was a mixed group. Some were music teachers and the rest of us were cooperative volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family think about your going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, um, the only person who really questioned me was my mother, when I spent that month in South Carolina with her. One of our favorite places to go was always the library. And in the library there's this big giant globe and you can sit there and it twirls around. So we're looking at where we are. And as the globe moved around, I said, well, that's where I'm going. And so she said, well, why do you want to do this? Why are you going so far away? And I said, well, I think one of the reasons I want to do this is because I believe that had you had the chance, you would have done it. Because my mother loved to travel. But of course, having ten children, she wasn't really able to do too much traveling so. But so she just smiled and that's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your friends were, were they surprised?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.832139758368704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, um, the only person who really questioned me was my mother, when I spent that month in South Carolina with her. One of our favorite places to go was always the library. And in the library there's this big giant globe and you can sit there and it twirls around. So we're looking at where we are. And as the globe moved around, I said, well, that's where I'm going. And so she said, well, why do you want to do this? Why are you going so far away? And I said, well, I think one of the reasons I want to do this is because I believe that had you had the chance, you would have done it. Because my mother loved to travel. But of course, having ten children, she wasn't really able to do too much traveling so. But so she just smiled and that's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your friends were, were they surprised?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Not really. And one of my brothers did come visit me while I was in Kenya. The one in Oakland, he visited me while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we can talk about that later on. So let me ask you about training. Were you the only African American in the group or were there others as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.813488620409672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your friends were, were they surprised?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Not really. And one of my brothers did come visit me while I was in Kenya. The one in Oakland, he visited me while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we can talk about that later on. So let me ask you about training. Were you the only African American in the group or were there others as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were three of us. One was a music teacher. And there were two females and one male. And the male was also a cooperative volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So by the sixties, I mean in the sixties, I think it was where we had one African American in our group. But you were there in the eighties, so it was a much more mixed group by that time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.880850148653916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were three of us. One was a music teacher. And there were two females and one male. And the male was also a cooperative volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So by the sixties, I mean in the sixties, I think it was where we had one African American in our group. But you were there in the eighties, so it was a much more mixed group by that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But guess what? That was also one Chinese."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was full blooded Chinese."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Born in the United States?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.087469319325823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was full blooded Chinese."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Born in the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure where he was born, but he was educated in the United States. I believe his name was Jim Lee. So, you know, nobody really knew but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he was 100 percent Chinese."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Good. So you got on the train, uh, train, on the plane in Philadelphia and flew directly?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.419025129390704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we did not, no. We did not board the plane in Philadelphia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We boarded a bus in Philadelphia that took us to JFK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we flew from JFK to Germany. I'm trying to think of the name of the city in Germany. Frankfurt. We went to Frankfurt, Germany, and from, that was on TWA, and from Frankfurt we were there all day. Then we boarded a Kenya Airways flight from Germany to Nairobi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what happened when you got to Nairobi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.048179172087288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we flew from JFK to Germany. I'm trying to think of the name of the city in Germany. Frankfurt. We went to Frankfurt, Germany, and from, that was on TWA, and from Frankfurt we were there all day. Then we boarded a Kenya Airways flight from Germany to Nairobi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what happened when you got to Nairobi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they had told us several things to be cautious of. And one of the things that I didn't think was going to affect me because I felt like I was in good physical condition. They told us be prepared because you're leaving a very low altitude. When you land in Nairobi, you will be 5,000 feet above sea level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And as I started walking, I was like, oh, wait a minute. I didn't, I didn't think it was going to affect me like that. But it did. But in a couple of days, you recuperated from it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you then did the training in Nairobi, in country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.942421302319207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they had told us several things to be cautious of. And one of the things that I didn't think was going to affect me because I felt like I was in good physical condition. They told us be prepared because you're leaving a very low altitude. When you land in Nairobi, you will be 5,000 feet above sea level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And as I started walking, I was like, oh, wait a minute. I didn't, I didn't think it was going to affect me like that. But it did. But in a couple of days, you recuperated from it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you then did the training in Nairobi, in country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.57089049669038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did some training, but it wasn't in Nairobi. I don't remember the name of the place in Kenya where the training was. But one thing that I do want to point out, when we were in Nairobi, we stayed in a hotel named Karen. And most people have seen this hotel. And the reason they've seen it is because it was featured in the movie Out of Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had to throw that little part in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had Out of Africa been filmed before that or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.523211662989311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did some training, but it wasn't in Nairobi. I don't remember the name of the place in Kenya where the training was. But one thing that I do want to point out, when we were in Nairobi, we stayed in a hotel named Karen. And most people have seen this hotel. And the reason they've seen it is because it was featured in the movie Out of Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had to throw that little part in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had Out of Africa been filmed before that or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so, did you recognize that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.581346292210347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had to throw that little part in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had Out of Africa been filmed before that or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so, did you recognize that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had not seen the movie. I'm not a big movie person, so I had not seen the movie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So it must have been a pretty quaint looking place to be in a movie."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.757051435789274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so, did you recognize that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had not seen the movie. I'm not a big movie person, so I had not seen the movie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So it must have been a pretty quaint looking place to be in a movie."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an interesting place. It was not well kept. The swimming pool had no water in it, and it, it was sufficient for us. But I would not say that it was a good place for tourists. Does it still exist? I don't know, because Nairobi is so different now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would guess. Right. I was in Nairobi in 1967."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.063390484210304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had not seen the movie. I'm not a big movie person, so I had not seen the movie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So it must have been a pretty quaint looking place to be in a movie."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an interesting place. It was not well kept. The swimming pool had no water in it, and it, it was sufficient for us. But I would not say that it was a good place for tourists. Does it still exist? I don't know, because Nairobi is so different now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would guess. Right. I was in Nairobi in 1967."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ooh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet it's changed a lot since then. So you, talk a little bit about the training you had in country."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.292656093567004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an interesting place. It was not well kept. The swimming pool had no water in it, and it, it was sufficient for us. But I would not say that it was a good place for tourists. Does it still exist? I don't know, because Nairobi is so different now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would guess. Right. I was in Nairobi in 1967."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ooh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet it's changed a lot since then. So you, talk a little bit about the training you had in country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Most of our training was done by host country nationals. We did cross-cultural training. Actually, we started cross- cultural training in Philadelphia. And then we continued on in country. And we also had language teachers. So we had in-country cross- cultural training for part of the day. And we also had Swahili training the rest of the day. And, uh, it was interesting. I don't know why this has come to me, but one of the instructors pointed out people who would not stay. They said they had worked with Peace Corps long enough and they were able to tell us specifically who was not going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They actually told the group that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.658506770630003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ooh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet it's changed a lot since then. So you, talk a little bit about the training you had in country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Most of our training was done by host country nationals. We did cross-cultural training. Actually, we started cross- cultural training in Philadelphia. And then we continued on in country. And we also had language teachers. So we had in-country cross- cultural training for part of the day. And we also had Swahili training the rest of the day. And, uh, it was interesting. I don't know why this has come to me, but one of the instructors pointed out people who would not stay. They said they had worked with Peace Corps long enough and they were able to tell us specifically who was not going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They actually told the group that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It was more or less private conversations that some of us had with some of the instructors, and they were 100 percent correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. What were the characteristics that they would mention?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.176118634033337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Most of our training was done by host country nationals. We did cross-cultural training. Actually, we started cross- cultural training in Philadelphia. And then we continued on in country. And we also had language teachers. So we had in-country cross- cultural training for part of the day. And we also had Swahili training the rest of the day. And, uh, it was interesting. I don't know why this has come to me, but one of the instructors pointed out people who would not stay. They said they had worked with Peace Corps long enough and they were able to tell us specifically who was not going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They actually told the group that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It was more or less private conversations that some of us had with some of the instructors, and they were 100 percent correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. What were the characteristics that they would mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember what they said, but they just said she will not make it. He will not make it. She's going to leave early. And all these people left. But they said they had worked with Peace Corps long enough to know who was going to make it and who wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the cross-cultural training like? Did it prepare you for living in a village? Well, I don't know where you actually ended up living."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.847060042016462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember what they said, but they just said she will not make it. He will not make it. She's going to leave early. And all these people left. But they said they had worked with Peace Corps long enough to know who was going to make it and who wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the cross-cultural training like? Did it prepare you for living in a village? Well, I don't know where you actually ended up living."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, I lived in a city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My assignment was with a wood carving co-operative in Mombasa, and I was a rather unique volunteer. And the reason I say that is because the volunteers who are in the co-operative program had to travel. Most of them were farm cooperatives, and they would have to travel from farm to farm. I unfortunately never learned how to ride a bicycle. They wanted to give me a motorcycle, but I could not master riding a motorcycle. So they had to find a position for me that did not require me to travel.\n\nAnd actually my first assignment was with a women's co- operative in Kaimosi, which was up near Lake Turkana, uh, Lake Victoria. And unfortunately, things didn't work out there. So I, so I was only there for a few months. Then I ended up in Mombasa with a woodcarving co-operative. And those carvings that the men did were shipped all over the world. And I remember when I came home, I went to the Library of Congress and I went into the gift shop and I spotted an Akamba carving and I picked it up and I saw the sticker on the bottom, Akamba carving. And I said, oh, I probably put that sticker on that myself. But they were shipped all over the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. Okay. So you didn't live in a, in a village. But just to go finish the questions about, about the training. Did you, what did you think about the training? Both the language training and the cross- cultural training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.1636551226127825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even know. I don't even know how the conversation ended. I don't know where that man came from. That was, you know, because I met people all over the place and that was just the part of a conversation I really remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having been a volunteer in Somalia and Mombasa having lots of Somalis, he may have been a Somali who were very bigoted against non Somalis or Negroid Africans. And maybe that's not a nice thing to say, but it was really true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now that you mention that, he could have been Somali. And the reason I say that is because where I lived in Mombasa, most of the people who lived there were Somalis. So he could have been Somali."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I think you were getting a little East African cultural issue built in here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anyway, so you said you first went to Lake Victoria."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.959616802903091, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now that you mention that, he could have been Somali. And the reason I say that is because where I lived in Mombasa, most of the people who lived there were Somalis. So he could have been Somali."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I think you were getting a little East African cultural issue built in here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anyway, so you said you first went to Lake Victoria."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This town, Kaimosi, it was near Lake Victoria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of a cooperative was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.011307224344342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I know during the time I was there, Peace Corps did not send another volunteer there because the APCD, he went there and he looked at the place and it was like, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But why was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once again, Peace Corps was doing their best to place me because I couldn't ride a motorcycle. So most of the cooperative positions involved farmers and they had to visit the farms and that just didn't fit for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. So you ended up in Mombasa. Mombasa was a pretty big city at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was the tourist capital for Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And talk about how you lived in Mombasa before we get to the co-op. What was that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.568119138160379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once again, Peace Corps was doing their best to place me because I couldn't ride a motorcycle. So most of the cooperative positions involved farmers and they had to visit the farms and that just didn't fit for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. So you ended up in Mombasa. Mombasa was a pretty big city at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was the tourist capital for Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And talk about how you lived in Mombasa before we get to the co-op. What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had to find a house. So I found a house. And I had no furniture. And I, you know, it was easy for me to get a matatu from where I live to where I work. But unfortunately, someone broke into my house and stole most of my things. But the cooperative where I worked decided that they would give me an askari to watch my house at night. And the man was there at night and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Askari meaning watchman?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.149244228258466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they would all run to me. And so we had a nice conversation. And one of the things I did with the children was that I had a world map on my wall. And so they would come over and we would talk about the world. But then I also had a map of Africa, and by the time I left, um, the little girl, I think she must have been maybe about eight years old at that point. If I would say something like Kinshasa, she'd go to the map. There it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So she learned most of the major cities and all the different countries all over Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's great. So did you become friends with the parents too, with the women too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was unable to become friends with them because they spoke Somali. They did not speak very much Swahili and they spoke no English. I was uncomfortable speaking to their husband, who spoke Arabic, Swahili, English. I mean, he spoke so many different languages, and I think he spoke German as well, because they, there were a lot of German tourists that would come to Mombasa and you would go to restaurants and the menu would be in German. That's how many Germans would show up there. So I was not comfortable talking to him. So therefore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't want to become the third wife?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.3880491425094066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So she learned most of the major cities and all the different countries all over Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's great. So did you become friends with the parents too, with the women too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was unable to become friends with them because they spoke Somali. They did not speak very much Swahili and they spoke no English. I was uncomfortable speaking to their husband, who spoke Arabic, Swahili, English. I mean, he spoke so many different languages, and I think he spoke German as well, because they, there were a lot of German tourists that would come to Mombasa and you would go to restaurants and the menu would be in German. That's how many Germans would show up there. So I was not comfortable talking to him. So therefore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't want to become the third wife?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was no way I was going to become the third wife. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You never know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.542276825010452, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was unable to become friends with them because they spoke Somali. They did not speak very much Swahili and they spoke no English. I was uncomfortable speaking to their husband, who spoke Arabic, Swahili, English. I mean, he spoke so many different languages, and I think he spoke German as well, because they, there were a lot of German tourists that would come to Mombasa and you would go to restaurants and the menu would be in German. That's how many Germans would show up there. So I was not comfortable talking to him. So therefore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't want to become the third wife?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was no way I was going to become the third wife. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You never know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, some of the men where I worked, they asked me. They said, well, why don't you stay here and marry a Kenyan? And I said, no, I can't do that. And they said, well, why not? I said, well, because you can have more than one wife. And they said yeah. I said, well, why is that? Said, well, a man wants to know who his children are. I said, well, why can't I have more than one husband? And they said, oh no, women don't have more than one husband. I said, well, why is that? This is because a man wants to know who his children are. And I said, well, even if you're married, if I'm married to one man, that doesn't mean that those children are yours. So, you know, we would laugh and have fun like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you were safe in that apartment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9040454629758663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, some of the men where I worked, they asked me. They said, well, why don't you stay here and marry a Kenyan? And I said, no, I can't do that. And they said, well, why not? I said, well, because you can have more than one wife. And they said yeah. I said, well, why is that? Said, well, a man wants to know who his children are. I said, well, why can't I have more than one husband? And they said, oh no, women don't have more than one husband. I said, well, why is that? This is because a man wants to know who his children are. And I said, well, even if you're married, if I'm married to one man, that doesn't mean that those children are yours. So, you know, we would laugh and have fun like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you were safe in that apartment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No more break ins."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1156060699731847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No more break ins."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No more break ins."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you need a guard?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.350673411081316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No more break ins."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No more break ins."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you need a guard?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6118593456459065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No more break ins."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you need a guard?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was, I was comfortable. I felt comfortable. I was safe and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so. So this co-op, how many men worked in the co- op?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.582797456304398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't think I've ever known that number, but I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say at least 200."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a large co-op. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was, what was your role?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.423206736178269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a large co-op. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was, what was your role?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a business adviser. And one of the things, as I told you, the woodcarvings that they did were shipped all over the world. So one of the things I did was set up a program whereby we would have form letters to send to these places to request the money, because a lot of times they were not being paid. And one of the reasons they weren't being paid was because they weren't asking for the money. And once I started sending out these letters saying you owe X number of shillings, the money started coming in. So in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Little detail."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then another thing was that they had built a new showroom. As I said earlier, I'm not an artist, but I helped set up the showroom and it was a place where, um, the tourists would come and the tour guides would bring tourists there. And what I found out was that I had to, we had to get the money together really quick when the tourists would come in and buy items, because in order to keep the tour guides to keep coming there, we had to give them a little gratuity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which I think happens throughout the world."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.914674151309187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a business adviser. And one of the things, as I told you, the woodcarvings that they did were shipped all over the world. So one of the things I did was set up a program whereby we would have form letters to send to these places to request the money, because a lot of times they were not being paid. And one of the reasons they weren't being paid was because they weren't asking for the money. And once I started sending out these letters saying you owe X number of shillings, the money started coming in. So in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Little detail."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then another thing was that they had built a new showroom. As I said earlier, I'm not an artist, but I helped set up the showroom and it was a place where, um, the tourists would come and the tour guides would bring tourists there. And what I found out was that I had to, we had to get the money together really quick when the tourists would come in and buy items, because in order to keep the tour guides to keep coming there, we had to give them a little gratuity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which I think happens throughout the world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. And if they didn't get the gratuity, what one of the tour guides told me was that they would not stop coming there, but they would tell the people, don't buy anything. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were there other, were there other cooperatives where they, the tour guides could have taken people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.460749057010208, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then another thing was that they had built a new showroom. As I said earlier, I'm not an artist, but I helped set up the showroom and it was a place where, um, the tourists would come and the tour guides would bring tourists there. And what I found out was that I had to, we had to get the money together really quick when the tourists would come in and buy items, because in order to keep the tour guides to keep coming there, we had to give them a little gratuity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which I think happens throughout the world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. And if they didn't get the gratuity, what one of the tour guides told me was that they would not stop coming there, but they would tell the people, don't buy anything. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were there other, were there other cooperatives where they, the tour guides could have taken people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there were but, um. And plus, you could buy these items on the streets in Mombasa and the co-op didn't really get anything from that, although a lot of the men who were on the streets in Mombasa were members of that co-op."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did they do their own carving and then just sell it in the street? Is that it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.0674989522335645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. And if they didn't get the gratuity, what one of the tour guides told me was that they would not stop coming there, but they would tell the people, don't buy anything. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were there other, were there other cooperatives where they, the tour guides could have taken people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there were but, um. And plus, you could buy these items on the streets in Mombasa and the co-op didn't really get anything from that, although a lot of the men who were on the streets in Mombasa were members of that co-op."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did they do their own carving and then just sell it in the street? Is that it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's what they would do. But they would more than likely do the carvings there and then they would put some in the showroom because each member had a number. So when something was sold, the cashiers in the showroom would write down the member's number and how much it sold for, so they would get part of the profit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was maccambe art?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.951301717741514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Akamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Akamba. Akamba."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. A-K-A-M-B-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A-K."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A-M-B-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did things get sold for?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.723668575268349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. A-K-A-M-B-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A-K."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A-M-B-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did things get sold for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were various prices. They were, uh, you know, it all depended on what it was that you were buying. I can't really remember the prices, but they varied because some, some were very small. Maybe it was an elephant. And then you might have a very tall giraffe. So the prices were going to vary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Varied. So you helped them with their billing and, uh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.581853972520388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A-M-B-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did things get sold for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were various prices. They were, uh, you know, it all depended on what it was that you were buying. I can't really remember the prices, but they varied because some, some were very small. Maybe it was an elephant. And then you might have a very tall giraffe. So the prices were going to vary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Varied. So you helped them with their billing and, uh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other things that you were involved with as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.535393302800431, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were various prices. They were, uh, you know, it all depended on what it was that you were buying. I can't really remember the prices, but they varied because some, some were very small. Maybe it was an elephant. And then you might have a very tall giraffe. So the prices were going to vary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Varied. So you helped them with their billing and, uh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other things that you were involved with as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just making sure that they had, um, you know, that the people in the showroom were prepared and they had paper to wrap up things. So it was just a little bit of doing everything. It was kind of like an office manager, so to speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had any Peace Corps been there before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.66097938617337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just making sure that they had, um, you know, that the people in the showroom were prepared and they had paper to wrap up things. So it was just a little bit of doing everything. It was kind of like an office manager, so to speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had any Peace Corps been there before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not to my knowledge. But there was someone behind me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I met the guy. Years later, I met him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do in your spare time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.220783466411829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, everybody's English was that good. And because most of the classes at the schools were taught in English and they spoke Swahili at home. And then one day I met a man who asked me if I had done any acting, and I said no. And so he said, well, would you like to do some acting? I know this group that is looking for some actors. And so I said, oh, okay. So he asked me to meet him downtown on Moi Avenue, which is the main street. I don't know if you've seen pictures of Mombasa, but they have. One of the main pictures is these big, huge elephant tusks that cross the street like that. Anyway, so I said, okay, I'll meet you there. So then he said, well, the place is right around the corner. And I walked around the corner and there's this sign. Voice of Kenya. I'm like, what?\n\nBecause that's the national, that was the national television station, radio station. Everything was the Voice of Kenya. And so I went in and the woman talked to me. And so she told me about this, um, it's kind of like a soap opera that they were doing on Kenyan television. And I said, okay. So it was kind of like a part written for me, because it was about this Kenyan man who was married to a Black American. So I'm like, oh, okay. Well, it fits me. So I did a few episodes of that. And it was interesting because even in Nairobi, I was walking down the street one day and someone said, didn't I see you on television last night? And I really didn't know how to respond because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's so funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had never been in that kind of a situation before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You became a Kenyan TV star."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, somewhat. Somewhat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like lots of fun."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.911981629346476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had never been in that kind of a situation before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You became a Kenyan TV star."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, somewhat. Somewhat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like lots of fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did Peace Corps think about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.679979588162751, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, somewhat. Somewhat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like lots of fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did Peace Corps think about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Peace Corps didn't really have anything to say. The only thing they had to say was that if you did anything outside of your job, you could not be paid for it. And if you were paid for it, the money was to go to whatever organization you worked for. And to this day, I have not been paid. I was going to give the money to the cooperative where I was working, and unfortunately, they never got their money because I never got anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds good. But you taught them how to bill for their sculpture. You should have learned how to do that for yourself."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.533310653514167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did Peace Corps think about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Peace Corps didn't really have anything to say. The only thing they had to say was that if you did anything outside of your job, you could not be paid for it. And if you were paid for it, the money was to go to whatever organization you worked for. And to this day, I have not been paid. I was going to give the money to the cooperative where I was working, and unfortunately, they never got their money because I never got anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds good. But you taught them how to bill for their sculpture. You should have learned how to do that for yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, you know, back to Kaimosi when I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kaimosi is what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.534951424091565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, you know, back to Kaimosi when I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kaimosi is what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where that women's co-operative was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't, um. I didn't really have a lot of work to do. And I met a woman who, there was like a school nearby. It was kind of like a junior college. And so she asked me if I would teach a business course. So I said yes. And so of course I had no paper, I had no materials whatsoever. I did have paper and a pen. So what I would do is write out questions and exercises for the students. But I had to write it like five or six times because I had no way to reproduce anything. So I did that for a while until, you know, until I left. So that was all gratis work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other Peace Corps volunteers in Mombasa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.594390471212849, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where that women's co-operative was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't, um. I didn't really have a lot of work to do. And I met a woman who, there was like a school nearby. It was kind of like a junior college. And so she asked me if I would teach a business course. So I said yes. And so of course I had no paper, I had no materials whatsoever. I did have paper and a pen. So what I would do is write out questions and exercises for the students. But I had to write it like five or six times because I had no way to reproduce anything. So I did that for a while until, you know, until I left. So that was all gratis work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other Peace Corps volunteers in Mombasa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, wait a minute. Now, that was Kaimosi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was Kaimosi."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.079494408904752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, wait a minute. Now, that was Kaimosi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was Kaimosi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was another volunteer there. She was a music teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Kaimosi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Kaimosi, yeah. Yes, she was, she was a music teacher. So I don't know what it was like when you were in Somalia, but in Kenya they didn't like for the volunteers to be too close together because they wanted us, because they felt like if we were too close together, we would gravitate to each other and not reach out to the wider community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So but were there are others in Mombasa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.532771565449725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was another volunteer there. She was a music teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Kaimosi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Kaimosi, yeah. Yes, she was, she was a music teacher. So I don't know what it was like when you were in Somalia, but in Kenya they didn't like for the volunteers to be too close together because they wanted us, because they felt like if we were too close together, we would gravitate to each other and not reach out to the wider community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So but were there are others in Mombasa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think. They weren't in the city of Mombasa, but they were close by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't really interact with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.147523961610805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Kaimosi, yeah. Yes, she was, she was a music teacher. So I don't know what it was like when you were in Somalia, but in Kenya they didn't like for the volunteers to be too close together because they wanted us, because they felt like if we were too close together, we would gravitate to each other and not reach out to the wider community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So but were there are others in Mombasa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think. They weren't in the city of Mombasa, but they were close by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't really interact with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't really interact with them because that was one I know he was nearby because, uh, he came to my site of. Peace Corps had asked him to accompany the ambassador to Kenya. He went to a lot of the different sites. So he was the person who was chosen to accompany the ambassador to different sites within the Mombasa area. So there were others there, but we just didn't interact with each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do while you were on vacation? Were there vacations? Did you travel in Kenya? Did you travel in East Africa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.83058217956756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think. They weren't in the city of Mombasa, but they were close by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't really interact with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't really interact with them because that was one I know he was nearby because, uh, he came to my site of. Peace Corps had asked him to accompany the ambassador to Kenya. He went to a lot of the different sites. So he was the person who was chosen to accompany the ambassador to different sites within the Mombasa area. So there were others there, but we just didn't interact with each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do while you were on vacation? Were there vacations? Did you travel in Kenya? Did you travel in East Africa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Um. As you know, I was a little older, so. I probably shouldn't say this, but I didn't adhere to all the rules. But I'm the type of person who looks at the rules and then says, I don't think I really have to follow this. And then I look at the rules and I say, oh, I think I better follow this one. So one of the rules was, your first year there you were to stay in country for your vacation. I didn't do that. I went to Nairobi and asked for my passport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they kept it in Nairobi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.516845635942284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I said, look, there's nothing I can do. I said, so you might as well just get dressed. We're going down to the Intercontinental Hotel and get on the bus and go on the safari where we stayed overnight at different places. So when we got on the bus, we're sitting there and I'm listening to people who are getting on the bus who had stayed at the Intercontinental. The Intercontinental Hotel charged just as much as a hotel here in United States would charge. So I said to my brother, hmm, would you have preferred to pay maybe 100 times more and stay at the Intercontinental? These people didn't have any water. At least we had water.\n\nSo, you know, then we went on the safari and we stayed overnight. There was one place that was, um, we stayed at different hotels because there was one where you had these underground, it looked kind of like an underground place. But you had, because we couldn't go outside, and they had these places built underground that had windows. So you could go in there and you could look out at the animals as they came, because it was all about the animals. And so therefore, you could not go out on your own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even when you were in the vehicles. One place we stayed, we had to stay, we stayed in a tent. There was a hotel, but they chose to put us in a tent. And it was really nice tent because those are not for camping. And the tent, we had to unzip it. There was a floor on the other side. You unzip it and there was a nice bathroom. But in order to get from the hotel where we had our meals, we had to be driven even though it was walking distance and there was always someone riding shotgun, just in case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of the animals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The animals, right. So they did not want us to be attacked by the animals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was a really good experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.796495151046981, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even when you were in the vehicles. One place we stayed, we had to stay, we stayed in a tent. There was a hotel, but they chose to put us in a tent. And it was really nice tent because those are not for camping. And the tent, we had to unzip it. There was a floor on the other side. You unzip it and there was a nice bathroom. But in order to get from the hotel where we had our meals, we had to be driven even though it was walking distance and there was always someone riding shotgun, just in case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of the animals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The animals, right. So they did not want us to be attacked by the animals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was a really good experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your brother enjoy that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.798142161786396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your brother enjoy that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did. He did. But after the safari, we went to Mombasa so he could see where I lived. And his comment was, why are you living like this? You don't have to live like this. And I said, well, I think it's a pretty nice place. I said, you know, I didn't expect to live like I live in the United States. I said, this is perfectly fine for me. He said, no, I can't deal with this. So he left early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to go back to Nairobi with him and he caught a flight and left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did he have any regrets later on or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.553491290873772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did. He did. But after the safari, we went to Mombasa so he could see where I lived. And his comment was, why are you living like this? You don't have to live like this. And I said, well, I think it's a pretty nice place. I said, you know, I didn't expect to live like I live in the United States. I said, this is perfectly fine for me. He said, no, I can't deal with this. So he left early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to go back to Nairobi with him and he caught a flight and left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did he have any regrets later on or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. But he was like some of the people who, you may have had some in your group. They wanted everything to be just like home. And I said, well, if I want things to be like home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wouldn't come here."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.448754680091078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. But he was like some of the people who, you may have had some in your group. They wanted everything to be just like home. And I said, well, if I want things to be like home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wouldn't come here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd stay at home. You know, I don't need to leave home to experience the same thing that I experience at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I mean, even when I was in Kenya, I did something that I don't do very often here. I went to the movies a couple of times in Nairobi. I, I can almost count the number of movies I've been to in a movie theater here in Washington in the last ten years. And I could count them on one hand and have fingers left over. So, you know, I just wanted to do things that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other people were doing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.60972742232342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd stay at home. You know, I don't need to leave home to experience the same thing that I experience at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I mean, even when I was in Kenya, I did something that I don't do very often here. I went to the movies a couple of times in Nairobi. I, I can almost count the number of movies I've been to in a movie theater here in Washington in the last ten years. And I could count them on one hand and have fingers left over. So, you know, I just wanted to do things that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other people were doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, as long as I was going with a Kenyan, you know, I was okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you stayed in touch with any of the Kenyans that you knew?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.89969713591491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I mean, even when I was in Kenya, I did something that I don't do very often here. I went to the movies a couple of times in Nairobi. I, I can almost count the number of movies I've been to in a movie theater here in Washington in the last ten years. And I could count them on one hand and have fingers left over. So, you know, I just wanted to do things that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other people were doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, as long as I was going with a Kenyan, you know, I was okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you stayed in touch with any of the Kenyans that you knew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed in touch for about ten years and then after that, it just kind of faded off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I cut you. So your brother came halfway and then you continued working in this co-op?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 23.579873007302353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed in touch for about ten years and then after that, it just kind of faded off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I cut you. So your brother came halfway and then you continued working in this co-op?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. I was like, oh no, I'm not going to leave. No, there's no way. And plus, when he came, he came during my second year. I must have had maybe about four or five months left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was no way I was leaving. And I extended an extra month because I was afraid of coming home in the winter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. So you finished your tour and then what? What happened?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.864128969479738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, to Senegal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was quite different. And I look at the pictures that I took when I was there in '83, and then I look at the way it looks now. Completely different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Completely. The only thing that was disheartening to me about Senegal was that they had these streets, the sidewalks that have these beautiful tiles in the sidewalk, and they just haven't been maintained. You can still see the beauty that is there. It just needs to be brought back to life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, just hasn't been."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.182365521644153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was quite different. And I look at the pictures that I took when I was there in '83, and then I look at the way it looks now. Completely different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Completely. The only thing that was disheartening to me about Senegal was that they had these streets, the sidewalks that have these beautiful tiles in the sidewalk, and they just haven't been maintained. You can still see the beauty that is there. It just needs to be brought back to life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, just hasn't been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I was with a tour group when I went in 2013 and, um. I don't know if things have changed there or if I changed or if it's a combination. Because we weren't allowed to, in Dakar, we were not allowed. Well, I shouldn't say we weren't allowed. I should say we were encouraged not to leave the hotel unless we were on that bus. And even though I was on the bus and I'm looking around and I'm like, would I be comfortable walking these streets alone? Because in '83 I had no problems walking those streets alone. I went wherever I wanted to go. So I don't know if the city changed, if I changed, or if it was a combination."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's probably the same thing in Kenya or other places you've been."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.339321703215571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might be. I just remember that I did leave Senegal in '83 before I was, I wanted to leave. And the main reason I left was because I kind of lost my temper on the street. This man walked up to me and he said, hey sister. I said, yeah? You're an American, aren't you? And I said yes. He said, he got close to me, he said, you want something? And I said, what? He said, you want to buy something? I said, wait a minute. Look, you might think all Americans deal with drugs. I don't do drugs. He's like, calm down. I said, no, look, I don't do drugs, but I know the best hashish in the world comes out of Morocco, and I was just there. If I had wanted something like that, I would have gotten it in Morocco.\n\nAnd he was like, calm down, calm down. I said, no, you're going to walk up to me and you're going to insult me like that and you think I'm supposed to just take it? I said, uh uh, no, it's not going to work that way. And so he said, oh okay, calm down, calm down. And he ran away. And so I turned around. TWA office is right down the street here. So I went to the TWA office. When can I get a flight to New York? And that was when I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But other than that, I was happy. I was enjoying myself, just relaxing and just seeing the scenery. And I was. To this day, I kind of regret that I lost my temper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I had just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was also probably part of traveling by yourself."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.369532966932804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I had just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was also probably part of traveling by yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Because I'd been through all those Arab countries and I hadn't had any problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only one that I kind of incurred, incurred a problem was in Egypt. And that's the reason John and I were together, because I knew not to go to Egypt alone. And men would make passes and I was like, this is my husband. I don't see a ring on your finger. I'm like, what in the world? And I had never been approached like that. And even though they were crazy, I still went on to Tunisia and Morocco and all those places by myself. And I didn't have any problems. The only thing, um, in Casablanca, I realized that I was trying to do something that I wasn't supposed to do. And it was, it seems like such a harmless thing. I wanted to get something to eat. And they had these outside cafes, so I wanted to sit outside on the sidewalk and have lunch. And people started looking at me and I realized, oh, men only. So I said, okay, when in Rome, do as the Romans do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, things are different now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.966147741036448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Because I'd been through all those Arab countries and I hadn't had any problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only one that I kind of incurred, incurred a problem was in Egypt. And that's the reason John and I were together, because I knew not to go to Egypt alone. And men would make passes and I was like, this is my husband. I don't see a ring on your finger. I'm like, what in the world? And I had never been approached like that. And even though they were crazy, I still went on to Tunisia and Morocco and all those places by myself. And I didn't have any problems. The only thing, um, in Casablanca, I realized that I was trying to do something that I wasn't supposed to do. And it was, it seems like such a harmless thing. I wanted to get something to eat. And they had these outside cafes, so I wanted to sit outside on the sidewalk and have lunch. And people started looking at me and I realized, oh, men only. So I said, okay, when in Rome, do as the Romans do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, things are different now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just came back from Morocco."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.740164156707163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only one that I kind of incurred, incurred a problem was in Egypt. And that's the reason John and I were together, because I knew not to go to Egypt alone. And men would make passes and I was like, this is my husband. I don't see a ring on your finger. I'm like, what in the world? And I had never been approached like that. And even though they were crazy, I still went on to Tunisia and Morocco and all those places by myself. And I didn't have any problems. The only thing, um, in Casablanca, I realized that I was trying to do something that I wasn't supposed to do. And it was, it seems like such a harmless thing. I wanted to get something to eat. And they had these outside cafes, so I wanted to sit outside on the sidewalk and have lunch. And people started looking at me and I realized, oh, men only. So I said, okay, when in Rome, do as the Romans do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, things are different now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just came back from Morocco."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that was the one thing I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things are quite different. And where did you come back to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.600182396341292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just came back from Morocco."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that was the one thing I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things are quite different. And where did you come back to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, uh, you know, I said I was trying to avoid the winter in the United States. Well, it was in February. We landed at JFK. First of all, the flight from Dakar was delayed because JFK was closed. And when we came in, we were the first flight in in three days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of snow?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.555758218156992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that was the one thing I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things are quite different. And where did you come back to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, uh, you know, I said I was trying to avoid the winter in the United States. Well, it was in February. We landed at JFK. First of all, the flight from Dakar was delayed because JFK was closed. And when we came in, we were the first flight in in three days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of snow?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because of snow. And I had a friend in New Jersey and I had sent him a telegram telling him that I was coming in to JFK and to meet me at the airport. Well, when I got to the airport, he was not there. So I called him and he said, the reason I'm not there is because I kept calling the airline and they couldn't tell me where your plane was going. They, at one point, they said it was going to Boston. He said, so I'm on my way. So he came to the airport and met me and he had a shopping bag. I'm like, oh, that's a nice shopping bag. So he opens up the shopping bag and he has one of his coats and a hat and a scarf. He said, I didn't know what kind of clothes you would have, but with all the snow and everything, I know you need proper clothes. So I was like, okay. Coat was too big and everything. And I'm like, I'm glad. Because all I had was a little thin leather coat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was kind of hard reentry."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.72862024239666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, uh, you know, I said I was trying to avoid the winter in the United States. Well, it was in February. We landed at JFK. First of all, the flight from Dakar was delayed because JFK was closed. And when we came in, we were the first flight in in three days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of snow?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because of snow. And I had a friend in New Jersey and I had sent him a telegram telling him that I was coming in to JFK and to meet me at the airport. Well, when I got to the airport, he was not there. So I called him and he said, the reason I'm not there is because I kept calling the airline and they couldn't tell me where your plane was going. They, at one point, they said it was going to Boston. He said, so I'm on my way. So he came to the airport and met me and he had a shopping bag. I'm like, oh, that's a nice shopping bag. So he opens up the shopping bag and he has one of his coats and a hat and a scarf. He said, I didn't know what kind of clothes you would have, but with all the snow and everything, I know you need proper clothes. So I was like, okay. Coat was too big and everything. And I'm like, I'm glad. Because all I had was a little thin leather coat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was kind of hard reentry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it hard reentering culturally as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.03180026932962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because of snow. And I had a friend in New Jersey and I had sent him a telegram telling him that I was coming in to JFK and to meet me at the airport. Well, when I got to the airport, he was not there. So I called him and he said, the reason I'm not there is because I kept calling the airline and they couldn't tell me where your plane was going. They, at one point, they said it was going to Boston. He said, so I'm on my way. So he came to the airport and met me and he had a shopping bag. I'm like, oh, that's a nice shopping bag. So he opens up the shopping bag and he has one of his coats and a hat and a scarf. He said, I didn't know what kind of clothes you would have, but with all the snow and everything, I know you need proper clothes. So I was like, okay. Coat was too big and everything. And I'm like, I'm glad. Because all I had was a little thin leather coat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was kind of hard reentry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it hard reentering culturally as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't, I didn't think so. The one thing, because Peace Corps had given us these readjustment sessions before we left, I was prepared. Because they said, you know, you're going to go home and you've had this great experience and you're going to want to talk about it and nobody is going to want to hear it. So. And that was exactly the way it was. You know, they want to hear 2 minutes and that was it. They didn't want to hear anything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was true of your family as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.644197863369897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't, I didn't think so. The one thing, because Peace Corps had given us these readjustment sessions before we left, I was prepared. Because they said, you know, you're going to go home and you've had this great experience and you're going to want to talk about it and nobody is going to want to hear it. So. And that was exactly the way it was. You know, they want to hear 2 minutes and that was it. They didn't want to hear anything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was true of your family as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not of my family. They were more interested. But I remember a year later, a friend, a woman that I know who lives here in Washington, she had come home and, um. She was telling me how people were saying how bad she looked. So I told my mother about it. And so she said, well, you know, you weren't looking so good. I said, oh, what was wrong? She said, well, first of all, you had lost a lot of weight. And she said, it was just something about your skin. It just didn't look right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then, you know, I guess after staying in that bright sunshine and all of that, because sometimes I would get tired of all the heat and everything and I would get on the train and go to, or go to Nairobi. And, you know, during the rainy season, you get off the train, because it was an overnight trip. So around 9:00 or 10:00 in the morning, you're arriving in Nairobi and it's like 35 degrees. But by lunchtime, you know, a couple of hours later, it's in the seventies. But it was always refreshing to me to get off that train and feel that cool air. Yes, it was. That was the good part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you end up living coming back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 24.049108737077663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not of my family. They were more interested. But I remember a year later, a friend, a woman that I know who lives here in Washington, she had come home and, um. She was telling me how people were saying how bad she looked. So I told my mother about it. And so she said, well, you know, you weren't looking so good. I said, oh, what was wrong? She said, well, first of all, you had lost a lot of weight. And she said, it was just something about your skin. It just didn't look right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then, you know, I guess after staying in that bright sunshine and all of that, because sometimes I would get tired of all the heat and everything and I would get on the train and go to, or go to Nairobi. And, you know, during the rainy season, you get off the train, because it was an overnight trip. So around 9:00 or 10:00 in the morning, you're arriving in Nairobi and it's like 35 degrees. But by lunchtime, you know, a couple of hours later, it's in the seventies. But it was always refreshing to me to get off that train and feel that cool air. Yes, it was. That was the good part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you end up living coming back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I came back, I ended up here in Washington because of the noncompetitive eligibility for federal employment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you end up working? What federal agency?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 17.3445786877502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I came back, I ended up here in Washington because of the noncompetitive eligibility for federal employment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you end up working? What federal agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, well. The first federal agency was the Office of Human, the Office of Personnel Management. And it was really funny how I got the job because I don't remember what position I applied for. I don't know what agency I applied, where the, what agency the job was. But I remember I had to send my application to Philadelphia. And on a Friday night this man, Carlos Esparza, called me on a Friday night and he said, you sent your application to Philadelphia for X, Y, Z position. I said, yes I did. He said, well, the person who got your application did not think that you were a fit for that position. And he said, I used to work in Philadelphia. I've only been in Washington a couple of months. So they called me and told me about you.\n\nNow, this man is an SES. He's in the senior executive service. He's calling me on a Friday night. And so he said, so would you be interested in a job here at the Office of Personnel Management? And I said, well, yes. So I still remember, he said, here's a telephone number. Monday morning called Dot Mustard. That was her name, Dot Mustard. And he said, talk to her and she'll tell you where to go from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's where you ended up working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where I ended up working my first federal job. I was, I mean, it seemed like the stars just lined up for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was really easy transition."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.179120284979701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, actually, I was working some, I was working for a union, Local 639 in Northeast. I had been doing temporary work, and then finally this place hired me permanently, but I was still looking because it was a secretarial position and that wasn't what I wanted. And so things just lined up. I started December 31st, 1983. And Carlos Esparza had hired some other people who were in, who had noncompetitive eligibility. And he said that the reason he wanted us to start on December 31st, 1983, was because they were changing the retirement system. He said, and this way you will have a choice to stay with the old system or to move to the new system, just by starting one day in 2008, in 1983. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Good. So did you continue your career in the federal government after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. Yes, I did. And let's see, I worked. Office of Personnel Management. Peace Corps. Office of Personnel Management. Department of Agriculture, two different agencies at Department of Agriculture. Then I went to the Department of Energy. The Export-Import Bank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my last 13 years were with the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service. It took me almost full circle because when I came back from Peace Corps, I was working with the union. So what does Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service do? They work with unions, although I wasn't working with the union, but still it helps to know something about unions, even though I was in Human Resources."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So have you stayed in touch with Peace Corps at all in your activities? I know I met you that way."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.865689205533001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. Yes, I did. And let's see, I worked. Office of Personnel Management. Peace Corps. Office of Personnel Management. Department of Agriculture, two different agencies at Department of Agriculture. Then I went to the Department of Energy. The Export-Import Bank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my last 13 years were with the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service. It took me almost full circle because when I came back from Peace Corps, I was working with the union. So what does Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service do? They work with unions, although I wasn't working with the union, but still it helps to know something about unions, even though I was in Human Resources."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So have you stayed in touch with Peace Corps at all in your activities? I know I met you that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is a, I'm just asking it for the interview. How have you stayed involved with Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.295210228370001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my last 13 years were with the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service. It took me almost full circle because when I came back from Peace Corps, I was working with the union. So what does Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service do? They work with unions, although I wasn't working with the union, but still it helps to know something about unions, even though I was in Human Resources."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So have you stayed in touch with Peace Corps at all in your activities? I know I met you that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is a, I'm just asking it for the interview. How have you stayed involved with Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at one point I would go to, when I first came back, I would go to a lot of the happy hours and meet people and find out what was going on. And one of the people that I met, and I cannot remember his name, but anyway, he was a financial adviser with Legg Mason, who no longer exist. But anyway, I remember him giving his presentation and I was like, wow, that's something I think I might be interested in. So he said, um, he was not asking for our names and telephone numbers. He said, if you want any further information, you can pick up my card on the way out and contact me. So I went home and I told my husband about it. And so he said, well, maybe we should put some money in this.\n\nAnd so that was how we started investing. And that was through a Peace Corps volunteer. Yes, a returned Peace Corps volunteer. And one of the things I enjoy doing is being an advocate for Peace Corps on Capitol Hill. Unfortunately, this year I couldn't do it because of the, because of jury duty. But I've done it several times. And that's one of the things I always look forward to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been involved in? So that's what you've been doing. Have you stayed involved in the Washington D.C. Peace Corps group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.302728677000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at one point I would go to, when I first came back, I would go to a lot of the happy hours and meet people and find out what was going on. And one of the people that I met, and I cannot remember his name, but anyway, he was a financial adviser with Legg Mason, who no longer exist. But anyway, I remember him giving his presentation and I was like, wow, that's something I think I might be interested in. So he said, um, he was not asking for our names and telephone numbers. He said, if you want any further information, you can pick up my card on the way out and contact me. So I went home and I told my husband about it. And so he said, well, maybe we should put some money in this.\n\nAnd so that was how we started investing. And that was through a Peace Corps volunteer. Yes, a returned Peace Corps volunteer. And one of the things I enjoy doing is being an advocate for Peace Corps on Capitol Hill. Unfortunately, this year I couldn't do it because of the, because of jury duty. But I've done it several times. And that's one of the things I always look forward to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been involved in? So that's what you've been doing. Have you stayed involved in the Washington D.C. Peace Corps group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not lately. It seemed like after I got a little older and the people coming in kept getting younger and younger, it just felt like I didn't really have that much of a connection with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even some of the, I get, you know, I do send money to them and I'm on their email list. So I see the things that they're doing and any way that I can support them, I will but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a pretty young group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.9663317000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even some of the, I get, you know, I do send money to them and I'm on their email list. So I see the things that they're doing and any way that I can support them, I will but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a pretty young group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. It's very young. And, you know, it's, I feel like it's time for me to step aside and let them take over. But I was very active with the 50th anniversary, planning the activities at the, uh, at Arlington Cemetery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was very active in that, but I wasn't active with the 55th. I attended sessions, different things that were going on with the 55th, but I wasn't active in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you think back on your Peace Corps experience, what impact do you think it had on your life?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.184813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. It's very young. And, you know, it's, I feel like it's time for me to step aside and let them take over. But I was very active with the 50th anniversary, planning the activities at the, uh, at Arlington Cemetery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was very active in that, but I wasn't active with the 55th. I attended sessions, different things that were going on with the 55th, but I wasn't active in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you think back on your Peace Corps experience, what impact do you think it had on your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it makes me look at things in a more global manner. I listen to the news sometimes and they will say, oh, well, people in this country, they only make 10 cents an hour. And it makes me sit back and say, well, how much does it cost to live? You know, because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You understand that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6973000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it makes me look at things in a more global manner. I listen to the news sometimes and they will say, oh, well, people in this country, they only make 10 cents an hour. And it makes me sit back and say, well, how much does it cost to live? You know, because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You understand that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I remember one of the things that people would ask me, well, how much money did you get when you were a Peace Corps volunteer? I said, listen to what I was, I was a volunteer. I got a stipend to pay for things, but I wasn't paid a salary. Well, how much money did they give you just to live on? I said, well, it doesn't really matter, because what I was given was more than enough for me to survive on. If you translate that into U.S. dollars, there's no way that I could live on that. I said, so I always have to say, what does it cost to live in that place?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think that's one of the things that has impacted my life. And when people tell me, well, people aren't making that much money in this country or that country. Well, I don't know how much it costs to live there. And even if you break it down to the United States, it costs different amounts of money to live in different parts of this country. And certain places people think are inexpensive are not inexpensive, because housing in South Carolina costs a lot more than people think it does. And one of the things that always amazed me was that when my mother was alive, there were certain grocery items I would buy here and I would take there. And then there were certain grocery items there that I would buy there and bring here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So because the cost is so different."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.33, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think that's one of the things that has impacted my life. And when people tell me, well, people aren't making that much money in this country or that country. Well, I don't know how much it costs to live there. And even if you break it down to the United States, it costs different amounts of money to live in different parts of this country. And certain places people think are inexpensive are not inexpensive, because housing in South Carolina costs a lot more than people think it does. And one of the things that always amazed me was that when my mother was alive, there were certain grocery items I would buy here and I would take there. And then there were certain grocery items there that I would buy there and bring here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So because the cost is so different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The cost was completely different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Completely different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you thought about the impact of Peace Corps on Kenya or your, your work specifically?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Completely different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you thought about the impact of Peace Corps on Kenya or your, your work specifically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not my work specifically, but the impact of Peace Corps on Kenya. I think because of all the, for lack of a better term, free labor that the country was getting from Peace Corps volunteers, I think they profited quite well. And I am hopeful that eventually Peace Corps will go back. I was very disheartened when I found out that Peace Corps was no longer there. But as the, this was during the 55th anniversary, the director of Peace Corps was saying, was explaining that Peace Corps has been suspended rather than abandoned in the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So if things get better, then it'll be easy for a Peace Corps to just go back in. So hopefully that will happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the question is about the third goal of Peace Corps, bringing the world back to the United States. Do you have any thoughts about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not my work specifically, but the impact of Peace Corps on Kenya. I think because of all the, for lack of a better term, free labor that the country was getting from Peace Corps volunteers, I think they profited quite well. And I am hopeful that eventually Peace Corps will go back. I was very disheartened when I found out that Peace Corps was no longer there. But as the, this was during the 55th anniversary, the director of Peace Corps was saying, was explaining that Peace Corps has been suspended rather than abandoned in the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So if things get better, then it'll be easy for a Peace Corps to just go back in. So hopefully that will happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the question is about the third goal of Peace Corps, bringing the world back to the United States. Do you have any thoughts about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think that goal is being met in a multitude of manners. One is that there's so many of us that have had this experience seem like. And so therefore, we are bringing in other experiences to people that we interact with every day. And at my church, there's several people, you know, it seemed like practically every time I turn around, there's another person that's telling me they're a returned Peace Corps volunteer. So our whole outlook on the world as a whole is more globally centered as opposed to people who have been right here in Washington, D.C., from birth to age 80 or whatever.\n\nAnd I think it just, I think people will look at us and say, oh wow, that's an interesting experience. I've had lots of people say that to me. Oh, you did what? You just interrupted your career and went into Peace Corps? I said, yes. You know, I was still young. I felt like I was still young. I could do anything I wanted to do so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did. It was great."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think that goal is being met in a multitude of manners. One is that there's so many of us that have had this experience seem like. And so therefore, we are bringing in other experiences to people that we interact with every day. And at my church, there's several people, you know, it seemed like practically every time I turn around, there's another person that's telling me they're a returned Peace Corps volunteer. So our whole outlook on the world as a whole is more globally centered as opposed to people who have been right here in Washington, D.C., from birth to age 80 or whatever.\n\nAnd I think it just, I think people will look at us and say, oh wow, that's an interesting experience. I've had lots of people say that to me. Oh, you did what? You just interrupted your career and went into Peace Corps? I said, yes. You know, I was still young. I felt like I was still young. I could do anything I wanted to do so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did. It was great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think I have had a fantastic life. Fantastic. And Peace Corps is definitely one of the highlights. I remember I took a class one time dealing with public speaking. And so we had to give a speech about something that had impacted our lives. Of course, you know, you know what my topic was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's probably a good place to end this, this interview. Is there anything else you'd like to say before we, before we end it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's probably a good place to end this, this interview. Is there anything else you'd like to say before we, before we end it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing I have to say is that I wish Peace Corps still had that motto. The toughest job you'll ever love."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I loved it. It was not easy. Would I do it again? I wanted to. But because of budget situation, I will not apply. I feel like the number of volunteers has sunk so low that it would not be. I think it would be selfish of me if I applied and got in and took a slot from someone who's never had the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's why we advocate."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00088:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing I have to say is that I wish Peace Corps still had that motto. The toughest job you'll ever love."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I loved it. It was not easy. Would I do it again? I wanted to. But because of budget situation, I will not apply. I feel like the number of volunteers has sunk so low that it would not be. I think it would be selfish of me if I applied and got in and took a slot from someone who's never had the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's why we advocate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's why we advocate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So thank you so much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00589:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 29.747817178018682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some types of classes we take condensed versions for. Last October I did assessments of all the systems: the life support system, the electrical system, the thermal control system. I took those system assessments, and from those assessments, then they determined how much training I needed to do. Which actually, in the end, allowed them to decrease the total training time for me. I was incentivized to do well on the assessments in order to reduce the total training flow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there specialists on board ISS like there were on Shuttle where you had a mission specialist, commander, pilot? Are there those type of roles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually, since we’ve gone to the ISS paradigm, everyone’s an astronaut. You’re expected to perform all functions. You’re expected to be able to do robotics, expected to be able to do EVAs, expected to be able to do the science program. You have to fulfill all functions. A commander versus a flight engineer role is slightly different, but the same skill set has to be available to everyone. That was particularly important when we had three person crew. Now that we have six person crew, we still need to have skill sets that encompass everything. It’s important that every crew member can do everything. I think it’s a different change in that mindset as well. You don’t have the capability to just specialize in one field or another. You need to be able to be good at everything: good at maintenance, good at science, good at EVA, good at robotics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve got a talented pool of people who can do all that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’s pretty challenging, and everybody’s going to have skill sets—hey, this is easier for me, or this is harder for me, but that’s true of all of us. We train up the skills that each of us does not have so that we make that same minimum level of capability in all areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you share with us the evolution of science on board Station? You started out as the project scientist on Shuttle-Mir. How has that evolved since that time in ’92 to today?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00589:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not musically talented, no. No, our big plan, and hopefully we’ll be able to pull it off, is we would like to highlight all the people that it takes to make space exploration possible. It still amazes me to this day. I go through all this training, and you learn so much about the hardware, so much about what the engineers had to design and plan for, so much about what the trainers do to teach you how to use this hardware. Then there’s the real-time flight control team that’s supporting you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The team is amazing. It’s just always mindboggling the number of different people: the divers at the NBL. There was a young lady I met over in the building who was working on spacesuits. She was doing the heat sealing of the inner bladder of the spacesuit. Her degree was in fashion design. It’s just really neat, all these different stories. All these different people bring so much to the space program and from so many different directions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How are you showcasing all of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re going to try and use social media to tell the stories of the people: where they came from, what inspired them, the fun stories about what they work on, what they enjoy the most about their job, what their biggest challenges are. We’re hoping to give young people an idea. You can be in the space program. You can be a part of exploration without necessarily being an astronaut. Not every kid wants to be an astronaut. Less than one percent of the applicants get selected, so it’s nice to be able to share with them all these other STEM [Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics] education backgrounds that are actually involved, not even STEM, but other backgrounds as well. I think showcasing all those will help young people, hopefully, be inspired by what we do, and hopefully want to participate in the next generation of exploration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a great idea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully it will work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like a lot of work. What do you think is going to be the legacy of the ISS?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00589:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re going to try and use social media to tell the stories of the people: where they came from, what inspired them, the fun stories about what they work on, what they enjoy the most about their job, what their biggest challenges are. We’re hoping to give young people an idea. You can be in the space program. You can be a part of exploration without necessarily being an astronaut. Not every kid wants to be an astronaut. Less than one percent of the applicants get selected, so it’s nice to be able to share with them all these other STEM [Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics] education backgrounds that are actually involved, not even STEM, but other backgrounds as well. I think showcasing all those will help young people, hopefully, be inspired by what we do, and hopefully want to participate in the next generation of exploration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a great idea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully it will work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like a lot of work. What do you think is going to be the legacy of the ISS?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me, I think the legacy of the ISS will be the international partnership. I know there are other things that we do, globally, but this is the most technically difficult, complex thing that we’ve done as an international community. If you just even look at the construction of this engineering feat on orbit, most of these pieces never met before. They never crossed borders here on Earth, but we constructed them on orbit. Seventeen thousand, five hundred miles an hour, we put these pieces together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s pretty amazing, and NASA makes it look easy. Well I think we’ve touched on all the questions that I had. I certainly appreciate you taking some time today."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01002:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 93.21297151068732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course there was the staff, the Preparedness Subcommittee had a staff. Senator Johnson borrowed people from here and there to put up the staff, so there were a number of people working on it. He was really like a dynamo at that time. He was so energized. [President Dwight D.] Eisenhower had not been very well at that time, and Eisenhower knew that we were well prepared in defense as far as weapons were concerned.\\n\\n It was Lyndon Johnson who really took the leadership in this, and he got [experts] in the Department of Defense to testify and [anyone] in the whole nation [who] could come, because you can see how many—we had about 2700 pages of hearings as a result of this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this your first task working with Senator Johnson?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had worked for other members of the Senate Armed Services Committee, particularly Senator [William Stuart] Symington and Senator Margaret Chase Smith and also Senator [Leverett] Saltonstall and Senator [John Cornelius] Stennis. All of these Senators were on the Committee and they were all very energized and they all asked a lot of questions that you had to answer, and everything had to be done immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This must have been one of your greatest assets, was to be able to get things done immediately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think that’s what you learn in the Congressional Research Service, because [Members] always had some kind of a crisis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you a part of the Legislative Reference Service before [the Missile Satellite hearings started]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01002:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 101.34774612298591, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had worked for other members of the Senate Armed Services Committee, particularly Senator [William Stuart] Symington and Senator Margaret Chase Smith and also Senator [Leverett] Saltonstall and Senator [John Cornelius] Stennis. All of these Senators were on the Committee and they were all very energized and they all asked a lot of questions that you had to answer, and everything had to be done immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This must have been one of your greatest assets, was to be able to get things done immediately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think that’s what you learn in the Congressional Research Service, because [Members] always had some kind of a crisis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you a part of the Legislative Reference Service before [the Missile Satellite hearings started]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My entire career [was] on the Hill [starting in 1941.] I was [in] the Legislative Reference Service [which] turned into the Congressional Research Service [CRS]. I was very fortunate at a time when it was expanding. We didn’t have very many people, but we were expanding to answer research problems for the Members. So if you were elected to the Congress as a Senator or Representative and you were put on a committee you might know nothing about, you still could get in touch with an expert who would tell you about taxation or social security or education or whatever the subject was. It just happened that I specialized in international relations and national defense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working on some of those issues when you learned about Sputnik?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01002:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.12267229747719, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the award that they gave me, the American Astronautical Society."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have received different awards from different organizations in the past. Are there some that you would like to share with us that come to mind? For instance, we are noticing the one from the Women in Aerospace."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Women in Aerospace, that’s quite an organization too because some of the women have really [high level] jobs. They are astronomers, scientists, [the] chief scientist of NASA is a woman, and the biographies are really impressive. I don’t have much time to spend with that now; I spent a lot of time with that before. But I have been too busy with the NASA committees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about your connection with NASA these days, what all that you’re doing for them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was on the Advisory Committee on the International Space Station, and we kept track of the Space Station and our relations with the Russians and with other partners that we had, international partners. We kept track of the Shuttle and building the Space Station. Then that committee ended last October.\\n\\n They started a new committee this spring, and I was appointed to that. It’s the Space Flight Advisory Committee, and this is the one that deals with the Space Station, upgrading the Shuttle, the launching, they are trying to get launching at less cost, and communications. So we had a three-day meeting of that last month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you finding old issues revisited, or are you still encountering new issues as the technology continues to change?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01002:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 35.69185810830798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Women in Aerospace, that’s quite an organization too because some of the women have really [high level] jobs. They are astronomers, scientists, [the] chief scientist of NASA is a woman, and the biographies are really impressive. I don’t have much time to spend with that now; I spent a lot of time with that before. But I have been too busy with the NASA committees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about your connection with NASA these days, what all that you’re doing for them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was on the Advisory Committee on the International Space Station, and we kept track of the Space Station and our relations with the Russians and with other partners that we had, international partners. We kept track of the Shuttle and building the Space Station. Then that committee ended last October.\\n\\n They started a new committee this spring, and I was appointed to that. It’s the Space Flight Advisory Committee, and this is the one that deals with the Space Station, upgrading the Shuttle, the launching, they are trying to get launching at less cost, and communications. So we had a three-day meeting of that last month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you finding old issues revisited, or are you still encountering new issues as the technology continues to change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there are new issues, like this commercialization and privatization. At the meeting, some people didn’t seem to know the difference between them. We have this problem about the role of the government and the role of the private industry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s stop for a few minutes and take a break, and then we’ll come right back.\\n\\n [interruption in tape]\n\nWe were talking of different honors and different recognitions that you had received. When we were looking through some of the information that you had so graciously passed on to us, one of the ones that took note was one of last year when three Oklahoma high school students chose you as their topic to research and enter as part of a National History Day competition. They went on to the national contest.\\n\\n I was just curious what your thoughts were that these teenagers of today chose you to do that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01002:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 26.940103747918883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You always have to re-explain with the Congress, because I wasn’t working so much with the executive people, except now and then. I was working with the members of Congress, and of course they have to be briefed. When they come in, they need a briefing on these subjects. They have to have more than lobbyists. They really need to have the facts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some of the hopes or the goals or even the assignments that you hope to fulfill and accomplish as part of your latest task with NASA with the Space Flight Advisory Committee? Are there some areas that you are looking to hopefully make sure get taken care while you are on this Committee?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The main thing that I want is to have coordination between the Shuttle and the Space Station. You see, you have different periods of time when they’re ready. The Shuttle is supposed to service the Space Station, and it has to be upgraded. So the main thing that I am interested in now is being sure that they are both ready at the same time for whatever it is they are supposed to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned in a conversation that we had that you will be traveling to Florida in the next couple of months. Will you be for activities going on at the Cape, or are you going for a meeting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it will be a meeting of our committee, and they will have briefings from the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been able to witness some of the realities and the actions of all these laws of politics? Have you been to launching of satellites?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01002:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.711226386576534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The main thing that I want is to have coordination between the Shuttle and the Space Station. You see, you have different periods of time when they’re ready. The Shuttle is supposed to service the Space Station, and it has to be upgraded. So the main thing that I am interested in now is being sure that they are both ready at the same time for whatever it is they are supposed to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned in a conversation that we had that you will be traveling to Florida in the next couple of months. Will you be for activities going on at the Cape, or are you going for a meeting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it will be a meeting of our committee, and they will have briefings from the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been able to witness some of the realities and the actions of all these laws of politics? Have you been to launching of satellites?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I saw the Apollo Soyuz one. I saw one last time, and I think we’ll see one in September. It’s very thrilling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must be very heartwarming for you to know that they are going to space for those reasons that were first intended continually after all these years."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01002:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 30.790251540640593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it will be a meeting of our committee, and they will have briefings from the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been able to witness some of the realities and the actions of all these laws of politics? Have you been to launching of satellites?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I saw the Apollo Soyuz one. I saw one last time, and I think we’ll see one in September. It’s very thrilling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must be very heartwarming for you to know that they are going to space for those reasons that were first intended continually after all these years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through your career you had a partner that was very essential to your success. You’ve mentioned before that your husband and your family were there right along with you as you were able to do all that you did. Could you share with us some details about your husband and how, if there were, at times that your work crossed or that you were able to benefit each other."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01002:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.9336794501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t.\\n\\n My husband was field representative of the National Economic and Social Planning Association, and we had a trip of one year throughout the United States. We zigzagged back and forth between the southern states, and then we zigzagged back and forth through the northern states and really studied the United States. That was a wonderful experience. We met all kinds of people, interviewed all kinds of people, and especially it was not long after the Depression. There were still people in the south talking about the Civil War and so forth.\\n\\n I know we came to New Orleans and we met two ladies who were somehow connected with the community service. She asked my husband where he was born, and he said New York. Since I had been born in Missouri and my mother was born in Texas and my father was born in Louisiana, she said to my husband, “That makes even you all right.” [Laughter] He was a damn Yankee, as far as she was concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a good thing you were along.\\n\\n You’ve had so many adventures. As children grow up, parents will try to tell them that the sky’s the limit. You’ve even managed to exceed past the sky and through the stars."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was really funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to ask you as part of our closing that you’ve been referred to as an author, a lecturer, editor, advisor, consultant, researcher, expert commentator on space law and many other areas. How would you describe yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. Someone else has thought of those words; I didn’t think of them. I just feel like myself. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01002:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 18.815199389, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was really funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to ask you as part of our closing that you’ve been referred to as an author, a lecturer, editor, advisor, consultant, researcher, expert commentator on space law and many other areas. How would you describe yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. Someone else has thought of those words; I didn’t think of them. I just feel like myself. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don’t know. I guess the main thing is that I like to deal with factual matters and solve problems, and when I solve a problem I try to think of the possible consequences. I think that is lacking in a lot of thinking, and you can’t be perfect at it because you don’t know everything that is going to happen. But I think to just say that you are going to solve a problem by doing this or that and not to figure out what the consequences will be is not thinking ahead. I do think that we’ve thought ahead for the 1967 space treaty, because it provides—we knew that if there were claims of sovereignty in outer space they would cause wars. That’s one of the things that causes wars is property claims and all. So we provided that there was to be no sovereignty in outer space [by means of use,] occupation or any other means. So we warded off a future war, future conflict.\\n\\n Meanwhile, we had what it took to unify people on the objective of peace. I think that is what I’m primarily interested in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there areas that you had hoped to be accomplished that just didn’t make it to the packages and treaties or other people didn’t agree with? Were there some challenges or some—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01002:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. [It is “Space Law: A Symposium” published on December 31, 1958 by the Senate Special Committee on Space and Astronautics.]\\n\\n I put in the paper I wrote on the Community of Law and Science, and that was where I met—oh, and I put in Johnson’s speech. This was where I met Dr. [I. H. Ph.] Diedericks-Verschoor, who was an expert in aviation law. It was at The Hague in 1958 in August, this month, in 1958. I’m going to write her a letter. She was president of the Institute for a while and is a real expert on aviation law. So that’s very helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you became so involved with the space industry as part of your job, were they still assigning you to other areas as well, or were you pretty much left to devote all your energy and focus into following this path?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean while I was working on the Hill?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[I never worked for space industry while I was working on the Hill or after I retired. All my assignments came from Members and Committees of Congress, and some requests from the United Nations where they invited me to speak at their fiftieth anniversary. My participation in professional space organizations has always been as a volunteer and in the capacity of a government-oriented objective researcher. My space assignments on the Hill were about every aspect you can imagine–exploration of the Moon and Mars, communications, remote sensing, navigation, international cooperation, solar power, regulation of orbits, relation of the military and civilian, appropriations–if any non-space requests came to the CRS, the front office] said, “Leave Eilene alone; she’s busy.” [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that was good news."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01002:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean while I was working on the Hill?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[I never worked for space industry while I was working on the Hill or after I retired. All my assignments came from Members and Committees of Congress, and some requests from the United Nations where they invited me to speak at their fiftieth anniversary. My participation in professional space organizations has always been as a volunteer and in the capacity of a government-oriented objective researcher. My space assignments on the Hill were about every aspect you can imagine–exploration of the Moon and Mars, communications, remote sensing, navigation, international cooperation, solar power, regulation of orbits, relation of the military and civilian, appropriations–if any non-space requests came to the CRS, the front office] said, “Leave Eilene alone; she’s busy.” [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that was good news."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just didn’t want to be moved. I had an office in the corner of the building back of the Library of Congress. All the senior specialists were there, and I had a double window. This is remarkable in the government. I saw that they were always moving people. Somehow when anyone takes charge of anything, if it’s a grocery store, drug store, or whatever, they want to move things around. They want to move people. They wanted to move us all to the attic of the other building, which wasn’t air-conditioned. So I just collected lots of materials so whenever anyone came to the door, they would shake their heads. They knew they didn’t have room for me and that material anywhere else.\\n\\n But I just worked on all aspects of space no matter what [they] might be. I was there until I retired. I mean after I retired I could do some other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work from your home once you retired?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01002:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[I never worked for space industry while I was working on the Hill or after I retired. All my assignments came from Members and Committees of Congress, and some requests from the United Nations where they invited me to speak at their fiftieth anniversary. My participation in professional space organizations has always been as a volunteer and in the capacity of a government-oriented objective researcher. My space assignments on the Hill were about every aspect you can imagine–exploration of the Moon and Mars, communications, remote sensing, navigation, international cooperation, solar power, regulation of orbits, relation of the military and civilian, appropriations–if any non-space requests came to the CRS, the front office] said, “Leave Eilene alone; she’s busy.” [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that was good news."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just didn’t want to be moved. I had an office in the corner of the building back of the Library of Congress. All the senior specialists were there, and I had a double window. This is remarkable in the government. I saw that they were always moving people. Somehow when anyone takes charge of anything, if it’s a grocery store, drug store, or whatever, they want to move things around. They want to move people. They wanted to move us all to the attic of the other building, which wasn’t air-conditioned. So I just collected lots of materials so whenever anyone came to the door, they would shake their heads. They knew they didn’t have room for me and that material anywhere else.\\n\\n But I just worked on all aspects of space no matter what [they] might be. I was there until I retired. I mean after I retired I could do some other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work from your home once you retired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that technology has affected your job as well, whereas at some point you might have been mailing packages back and forth internationally, now you’re able to fax information. That must allow you to get—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01002:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just didn’t want to be moved. I had an office in the corner of the building back of the Library of Congress. All the senior specialists were there, and I had a double window. This is remarkable in the government. I saw that they were always moving people. Somehow when anyone takes charge of anything, if it’s a grocery store, drug store, or whatever, they want to move things around. They want to move people. They wanted to move us all to the attic of the other building, which wasn’t air-conditioned. So I just collected lots of materials so whenever anyone came to the door, they would shake their heads. They knew they didn’t have room for me and that material anywhere else.\\n\\n But I just worked on all aspects of space no matter what [they] might be. I was there until I retired. I mean after I retired I could do some other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work from your home once you retired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that technology has affected your job as well, whereas at some point you might have been mailing packages back and forth internationally, now you’re able to fax information. That must allow you to get—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I’m very pleased with the fax. I got so many things from the U.N., first [from] New York and now [from] Vienna. Just yesterday I got three pages from NASA. My phone is fixed so that if there’s no one on the line—it’s the same number as the telephone. So if there’s no one on the line, I know it’s the fax and I can punch star 51 and it’s transferred up stairs and it comes through there. I think that’s remarkable, because I can’t walk up the steps very fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure it’s very different from the days when you typed with a manual typewriter with carbon paper."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01002:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that technology has affected your job as well, whereas at some point you might have been mailing packages back and forth internationally, now you’re able to fax information. That must allow you to get—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I’m very pleased with the fax. I got so many things from the U.N., first [from] New York and now [from] Vienna. Just yesterday I got three pages from NASA. My phone is fixed so that if there’s no one on the line—it’s the same number as the telephone. So if there’s no one on the line, I know it’s the fax and I can punch star 51 and it’s transferred up stairs and it comes through there. I think that’s remarkable, because I can’t walk up the steps very fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure it’s very different from the days when you typed with a manual typewriter with carbon paper."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still type on my typewriter. But my old fax, which I really liked better, was just a tiny little thing, it makes these carbons like this. See, I made these for you. It’s better than the new fax for this because it goes through right away, and the other one if anything gets stuck you have to take the machine apart and I’m not good at doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We all have our talents, and that’s not one.\\n\\n Why don’t we stop for a while and we can visit and see if there are any other topics we want to talk about."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00546:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 146.55744196742575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Apollo—oh my lord, I wonder if I can. Apollo had an airlock, an experiment airlock, that was attached to a hatch where you could put the airlock in and you could put experiments and expose them to the vacuum without having to get out of the vehicle. So there were up-looking experiments like looking at stars or whatever it was in the various spectrums like UV [ultraviolet]. That was one. There were medical experiments for [bone] calcium loss.\\n\\n [Pauses] Huh. Well, I flunked that test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve got to tell you one story. I have to go back, like old guys do. It was Gemini IV. I worked Gemini IV and we had several experiments in Gemini IV, and they were all stowed up behind the crew, up behind Ed [White]. I wish I could tell you which ones those are. I can go back [and find] it. At any rate, the day before launch one of the managers [came to me] and said, “We have taken off all your experiments that you had on the vehicle.”\\n\\n I said, “You have what? I worked on those damn things for a year. Why did you take them off?”\\n\\n He said, “Well, Ed is going to go EVA [Extravehicular Activity] tomorrow,” which was the first I’d heard of it. They said, “We’ve got to make room for that handheld gun and the hose and all that, so we took your experiments out.”\\n\\n And I said, “Well, that sounds like a reasonable thing to do.…”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren’t involved then on planning for any of the EVA activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That was held very close to the vest. That was, I think, after one of our Russian friends had [done the first] EVA. That was just almost immediately after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the principal investigators on those experiments react to that action, or did they understand it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00546:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 95.80857364621541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The people at the Shamrock [were marooned and] stayed. The people that came from home couldn’t make it [back home and] the people that were there had to stay. They did a land office business at Trader Vic’s, which was the bar in the Shamrock. That was a beautiful place. It’s a shame [it] had to come down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the LACIE Program after Skylab, before Skylab, or was it kind of during?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The LACIE Program was before Skylab. Can you tell me when Skylab was?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Skylab was in ’73 and ’74 when it actually launched. It launched in May of ’73 and went through the early ’74."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember. I think [LACIE] was before [that]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe the Earth satellites were launched in the early seventies, so that would make sense."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00546:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 106.45397071801712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The LACIE Program was before Skylab. Can you tell me when Skylab was?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Skylab was in ’73 and ’74 when it actually launched. It launched in May of ’73 and went through the early ’74."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember. I think [LACIE] was before [that]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe the Earth satellites were launched in the early seventies, so that would make sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’m sure we can look that up."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00546:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 118.28218968668568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember. I think [LACIE] was before [that]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe the Earth satellites were launched in the early seventies, so that would make sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’m sure we can look that up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I forgot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all right. When Skylab was originally planned, Earth Resources hadn’t been planned as part of the package. Do you recall any of the discussion around that? Integrating it into Skylab, when that came about and how?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00546:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 130.31354409631743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’m sure we can look that up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I forgot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all right. When Skylab was originally planned, Earth Resources hadn’t been planned as part of the package. Do you recall any of the discussion around that? Integrating it into Skylab, when that came about and how?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I wish I could. I don’t recall that. But you’re right, it was not—primarily Skylab was observation instrumentation that looked at sun corona and the galaxy, NRL-type experiments, the Dick Towsey type. No, I do not remember how that came about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite okay. What was the difference between integrating the whole process of experiments from Gemini, compared to the aircraft, compared to Skylab? Could you contrast some of the differences or how the process grew from one program to another?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00546:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 30.682575619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m working very diligently today, personally. I have a real personal interest in commercialization [of space and the Space] Station. If we go back to an hour and a half ago when I said that my dad came over and he said, “You owe a lot to [this country].”\\n\\n Will Rogers said it very well. He says, “It’s a great country, but you can’t live in it for nothing. You’ve got to give something back….”\\n\\n So I still have a very personal interest, and I’m going to continue in the pursuit of that. I’ve been working now part-time for one of the aerospace contractors here, and then also I do some of this on my own nickel.\\n\\n This is hit and miss. This is stuff I got out of the attic last night. I took the trouble to get it so, by golly, I’m going to read it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In 1970, in the Earth Resources Program, we had a visit from the U.N. Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space, must have been thirty, thirty-five countries that came at that time to listen to where we [were] in remote sensing and what [benefits] there might be for their countries. That was in 1970."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. They were really nice people, very interested and very high up in their governments. They were just ordinary people. I think that that’s a characteristic of people like that.\\n\\n Let’s see. Let’s see here. [Referring to documentation] That’s my life story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You’ve mentioned, as we’ve been talking, several of the people that you worked with, and I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about some of the people that had a personal impact on your career or that you think were key contributors to the space program? Maybe you can mention some of them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 68.28957548134068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to ask you about your interest in physics and astronomy as a child. Can you talk a little bit about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I can’t remember the time when I didn’t want to be an astronomer, from the time I was [four at least]. I remember I’ve always been fascinated by things astronomical, by the sky and the planets. I grew up in the fifties, so I remember watching\\n\\n Sputnik\\n\\n , but even before that, I knew I wanted to be an astronomer. I wanted to be lots of other things, too, but that among them.\\n\\n I grew up in rural Minnesota, so basically a Lake Wobegon kind of experience. I got a good education, and because of teachers, I thought I was interested in mathematics when I went off to college, but soon discovered that I was a better physicist than I was a mathematician, and my real interest was in nature, not in mathematics. So I was able to continue pursuing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How closely did you follow any of the space programs, like the Mercury and Apollo Programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I followed them closely, but not fanatically, not as a hobbyist or anything like that. My family always had a subscription to\\n\\n Time\\n\\n and\\n\\n Life\\n\\n magazine, so I read everything and knew everything, and during some of the programs, I used to save the pictures. I was fascinated with the pictures, mostly the pictures from the spacecraft, that were taken during the missions, during Gemini and Apollo especially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have any interest in becoming an astronaut yourself at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 75.87730609037853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I can’t remember the time when I didn’t want to be an astronomer, from the time I was [four at least]. I remember I’ve always been fascinated by things astronomical, by the sky and the planets. I grew up in the fifties, so I remember watching\\n\\n Sputnik\\n\\n , but even before that, I knew I wanted to be an astronomer. I wanted to be lots of other things, too, but that among them.\\n\\n I grew up in rural Minnesota, so basically a Lake Wobegon kind of experience. I got a good education, and because of teachers, I thought I was interested in mathematics when I went off to college, but soon discovered that I was a better physicist than I was a mathematician, and my real interest was in nature, not in mathematics. So I was able to continue pursuing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How closely did you follow any of the space programs, like the Mercury and Apollo Programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I followed them closely, but not fanatically, not as a hobbyist or anything like that. My family always had a subscription to\\n\\n Time\\n\\n and\\n\\n Life\\n\\n magazine, so I read everything and knew everything, and during some of the programs, I used to save the pictures. I was fascinated with the pictures, mostly the pictures from the spacecraft, that were taken during the missions, during Gemini and Apollo especially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have any interest in becoming an astronaut yourself at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I thought it would be fun. It certainly was a fantasy, but it wasn’t a career goal, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you find out that they were going to be selecting Space Shuttle astronauts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 78.7525623226428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I followed them closely, but not fanatically, not as a hobbyist or anything like that. My family always had a subscription to\\n\\n Time\\n\\n and\\n\\n Life\\n\\n magazine, so I read everything and knew everything, and during some of the programs, I used to save the pictures. I was fascinated with the pictures, mostly the pictures from the spacecraft, that were taken during the missions, during Gemini and Apollo especially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have any interest in becoming an astronaut yourself at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I thought it would be fun. It certainly was a fantasy, but it wasn’t a career goal, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you find out that they were going to be selecting Space Shuttle astronauts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In 1977, I was finishing up my Ph.D., working on a fellowship in [West] Germany, at the University of Göttingen, and just saw a flyer on the bulletin board."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you decide to apply at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 25, "return_to_go": 83.05840258071423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I thought it would be fun. It certainly was a fantasy, but it wasn’t a career goal, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you find out that they were going to be selecting Space Shuttle astronauts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In 1977, I was finishing up my Ph.D., working on a fellowship in [West] Germany, at the University of Göttingen, and just saw a flyer on the bulletin board."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you decide to apply at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Looked like fun. I had learned to fly while I was an undergraduate at Harvey Mudd [College, Claremont, California], and the job looked like it combined the three things I was really interested in, space, astronomy, and the intellectual challenge of it all, and then the flying aspect, which I liked, and also the physical aspect. I’d always been a jock, so I thought the physical challenge would be interesting, too. I didn’t think I had much of a chance, actually, but I was just finishing my Ph.D. I met all the requirements, so thought it sounded like fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little bit about the application and the interview process from your memories?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 60.2622111966447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my reasoning was, since I was working on the suit, I wanted to get as much experience in pressure suits, period, as I could. Plus, flying in the WB 57 sounded really cool. So Kathy and I, Kathy [Kathryn D.] Sullivan and I both got checked out in the WB 57, and my reason for doing it was to get experience working in a pressure suit. It’s a different kind of suit, but similar kind of experience.\\n\\n The price to pay for doing that was to learn about how the airplane worked and how the missions that the airplane did worked, and then to actually pull together and run a couple of missions. So I spent three weeks down in Miami at Homestead Air Force Base [Florida] doing microwave observations over the tops of thunderstorms for some scientist. I actually got a publication in\\n\\n Science\\n\\n magazine out of it.\\n\\n Then Kathy and I both went to South America to do an air-sampling mission with the WB 57, and flew from Houston to Panama, to Lima [Peru], to wherever you go, Montevideo [Uruguay], down south over the Falkland Islands. It was neat. That was a fun trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Long flights. Seven hours in a cockpit in a pressure suit. This is the classic one that—people always think that the astronauts in the Shuttle have eating out of a toothpaste tube and things like that. That’s what you really did in those suits. You have your applesauce out of a tube. Water out of tube, sticking in the hole in your helmet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me how you performed the experiments? What was your job in the plane?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 50.94706097740798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, it came from one of the earlier crews, maybe STS-[5], I don’t know. Joe. How embarrassing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can fill that in. Joe [Joseph P.] Allen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Joe Allen. They had launched a couple of satellites. I think that was the first time we’d used the PAMs [Payload Assist Modules] and launched communications satellites, and they called themselves the Ace Satellite Delivery Company, and I think it just kind of carried. So I think Joe Allen gets the credit for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have the opportunity at all to work with the IMAX camera? You had mentioned the IMAX was on board."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. We all did. Yes, we all did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about the training for that and the difficulties or the ease with which you used it in space?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 56.995652022441114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no. No, not at all. No. Actually, Bill was a model payload specialist. He worked very hard. I mean, he was engaged. Physically, he was in better shape than we were. Oh, that was hard to say. That crew was in great shape, actually. He had no experience either in aviation or anything technical. He was a lawyer, so he had a huge learning curve, but that didn’t stop him from trying, and I think he knew where his limitations were. He wanted to jump in and help a lot of times, but just didn’t have the wherewithal to do it, but worked very hard and was incredibly enthusiastic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In his book he says that you went out of your way often to help him. Do you remember any of the ways that you would help him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I’m just a nice guy, you know. [Laughs] This is one you may want to edit later, but a lot of the ways I’d helped him was just holding Steve [Steven A.] Hawley back. [Laughs] I’d say, “It’s not worth it, Steve.” Franklin [R. Chang-Diaz], too. That was Franklin’s line actually, to say, “It’s not worth it, Steve.” [Laughs] Because every once in a while, you know, when you’re inexperienced and you—he would just kind of get in the way, and being the personality that Bill had, wasn’t very good at getting himself out of being in the way, so there were times when you just had to kind of get him out of the way, and you had to be a little careful about how you did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This flight was actually delayed seven times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh god, I don’t know. Forever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction and the crew’s reaction to these various postponements?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 61.7230271881989, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh god, I don’t know. Forever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction and the crew’s reaction to these various postponements?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was funny. My first flight went off right on time, so I had no experience with that. One of my other jobs that I seemed to be on ever third or fourth flight was family escort, so I’d had experience on flights that were delayed with the families, so I’d seen it from that end. My response was different from the inside than from the outside, and I think it was the same as the rest of the crew when you have an abort. Steve Hawley was a good person to have around on that, because he had been through the abort on 41-D. Is that it? Anyway, the first flight of\\n\\n Discovery\\n\\n , where they had the abort on the pad at two seconds or something like that. A hydrogen fire and all that. So he had been through it, and that was good experience for us. And Hoot Gibson is just the best in terms of being able to technically fly the Space Shuttle. Probably John Young and Hoot Gibson are the best I’ve ever seen. It’s like the\\n\\n Apollo 13\\n\\n line; Hoot could fly a refrigerator.\\n\\n Anyway, so having them up there, and Charlie [Charles F. Bolden, Jr.] really worked hard and knew his stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can we stop?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure.\\n\\n [Tape change]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe we should go back just a little bit to the launch delays. You were talking about Steve Hawley being a good person to have along, and Hoot Gibson."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.496845509373397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that a little bit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the founding member of the band Max Q, actually. Brewster [H.] Shaw [Jr.] and I are the founding members of Max Q. Max Q was a result of a party that we had after the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident, just kind of a morale-booster party that “Sonny” [Manley Lanier Carter, Jr.] was a big organizer of. So we rented the pavilion down at Galveston Park and we had a fifties party, basically. Everybody dressed up in hoop skirts and jeans and t-shirts.\\n\\n Brewster and I had played together a few times, just over at our houses, just sit around and drink beer and play our electric guitars or play our guitars, so we decided that we would get a band together. We knew Hoot could play, so we got Hoot involved, and then we found out Jim [James D.] Wetherbee was a drummer, so we invited Wetherbee to join us, and we got together and learned two or three three-chord songs for this party.\\n\\n It turned out to be so much fun that we kept playing. Then Steve Hawley joined the band for a while. That was really fun. That was a good pastime. We’d practice once in a while and we’d play at roadhouses or various parties or whatever. I guess they’re pretty good now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve heard them, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We weren’t very good. [Laughs] But it was a lot of fun. I mean, it was just kind of something to do, recreation, to have fun. We started playing softball again and all kinds of stuff like that.\\n\\n [Interruption]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about STS-26. You had already mentioned that George Abbey had called you while you were in Seattle. What was your reaction, and what was your family’s reaction to the news?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 29.035670016753304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was down there. It was kind of lonely down there. My sole instrument is this little button altimeter that’s just bolted to the face of a locker, so that if you blow a hole in the cabin, you’re aware that you’ve got a hole in the cabin, basically. Actually, it was so that you could deploy the escape system at 10,000 feet.\\n\\n So you’re just there. I mean, you’re in constant communication with the crew. I had launched on the flight deck before, so I knew what was going on, but basically I had nothing to do but just kind of take it all in, so I just decided I was just going to relax and just go along for the ride and sense the experience. I kept track of my watch so I could note the time when the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n was lost, to know just what was going on at that point.\\n\\n The launch went incredibly smoothly. I mean, I didn’t think we’d launch that day. We all came out to the pad thinking, you know, this will be a good run-through, and then we launched, and absolutely flawless. We had less problems on this mission than on either of my other two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any concerns during liftoff that something might go wrong, given what happened last time on the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n ?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not given what happened last time, but just given the nature of the beast, of the Space Shuttle. It’s just an incredibly complex, complicated conglomeration of parts and pieces. I always had concerns that something was going to go wrong, and I always figured that it was something that they hadn’t told me about. So, yes, launch is a very exciting, dynamic time and you are worried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand there was a problem on the flight. The flash evaporator system froze up. Did that have any impact on the flight or the crew?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.561149240593352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had been given those shirts by the ground crew, because they wear them on Fridays. It was one of those days, you know, “We’ve got to take some pictures. Let’s wear our Hawaiian shirts and act stupid for a while and take some movies. Then we’ll have something for our post-flight stuff.” Basically, you know, that’s it. We have these things, “Okay, let’s put them on and take some pictures.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your crew also paid tribute to the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n crew on board."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s an interesting story, actually. That’s another one of these things that tells something about NASA. We knew we needed to do something and wanted to do something to honor the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n crew. We kept asking for help from PAO, the Public Affairs Office, from our bosses, just, “Hey, what should we do?” and got nothing. So we talked about it a lot of times, “Well, what are we going to do?” and didn’t have anything.\\n\\n Finally, Dave Hilmers actually wrote a draft and said, “I think we ought to read something like this. We can divide it up and each read a piece.” So Hilmers was the one who really came up with the idea and the draft of what we were going to do. Then we brought it to the Flight Directors, to the folks on the ground, and said, “This is what we’d like to do. We’ll get some footage.”\\n\\n We worked it all out and we found a good pass over Hawaii where we could downlink it, and worked with [Charles] Lacy Veach, our CapCom, to coordinate it all. But Hilmers gets the credit for thinking of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact do you think that that tribute had on the agency itself?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.556974371102903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s an interesting story, actually. That’s another one of these things that tells something about NASA. We knew we needed to do something and wanted to do something to honor the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n crew. We kept asking for help from PAO, the Public Affairs Office, from our bosses, just, “Hey, what should we do?” and got nothing. So we talked about it a lot of times, “Well, what are we going to do?” and didn’t have anything.\\n\\n Finally, Dave Hilmers actually wrote a draft and said, “I think we ought to read something like this. We can divide it up and each read a piece.” So Hilmers was the one who really came up with the idea and the draft of what we were going to do. Then we brought it to the Flight Directors, to the folks on the ground, and said, “This is what we’d like to do. We’ll get some footage.”\\n\\n We worked it all out and we found a good pass over Hawaii where we could downlink it, and worked with [Charles] Lacy Veach, our CapCom, to coordinate it all. But Hilmers gets the credit for thinking of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact do you think that that tribute had on the agency itself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The tribute?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, none. Why do you say that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m just curious."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 35.063304856781, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The tribute?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, none. Why do you say that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m just curious."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, I don’t think—the tribute itself I don’t think had any—I mean, I think it was important for the—well, I take that back. I think it was important for the people, for the folks in mission control and for the engineers and the technicians who worked on the spacecraft, to have the crew acknowledged, because we tried to speak for everybody. I mean, that was the intent. Hilmers is a very, very clever, sensitive guy. And it was important for the families, I think, who needed that kind of closure. It was one more piece of closure for them to have somebody in orbit, on a successful flight, recognizing what their family had done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you and your crewmates deal with all of the press? Obviously, this was a high-profile mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4290000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure.\\n\\n [Tape change]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about\\n\\n Time\\n\\n magazine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Time\\n\\n magazine printed a double-wide, a full-spread picture that I had taken of the Shuttle just as it was touching down, and gave me a picture credit, so now I can say I am a published photographer. Usually they just give the credit to NASA, but\\n\\n Time\\n\\n went to the effort to actually find out who had actually taken the picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was fun. So, being an integral part of STS-1 like that was fun, both trying to get the spacesuit ready to go and working on the malfunction book and being on the chase team. We really felt like we had become a real part, like a real astronaut by then, a part of the program, ready to go out and fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me just ask you a couple of general questions before I close out today. Looking back over your career with NASA, what do you think was your most challenging milestone?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Time\\n\\n magazine printed a double-wide, a full-spread picture that I had taken of the Shuttle just as it was touching down, and gave me a picture credit, so now I can say I am a published photographer. Usually they just give the credit to NASA, but\\n\\n Time\\n\\n went to the effort to actually find out who had actually taken the picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was fun. So, being an integral part of STS-1 like that was fun, both trying to get the spacesuit ready to go and working on the malfunction book and being on the chase team. We really felt like we had become a real part, like a real astronaut by then, a part of the program, ready to go out and fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me just ask you a couple of general questions before I close out today. Looking back over your career with NASA, what do you think was your most challenging milestone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting selected was certainly the most challenging thing. Contrary to popular belief, I think the job of being an astronaut is not all that hard. You’re in an incredible support system. You’re extremely well trained and provided with resources that you need to get trained, so if you’re a motivated person who has basic, good motor control and fairly smart, you can learn how to do all the procedures. It’s a little different for the pilots, I think, who have to have special skills and who are just really terrific at flying the machine.\\n\\n I can’t think of anything I had to do that was really hard. I found it all just very enjoyable. It took a lot of effort to learn how to work in the spacesuit really well, but it was an interesting challenge and fun. The people part of it is always a challenge, but my experience is that the people at NASA, not just the astronauts, but the support team and the folks in mission control and the hardware folks—\\n\\n [Interruption]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are back, and you were talking about your biggest challenge, before the phone rang. You said your biggest challenge was getting selected."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00431:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s for sure. The rest of it just came naturally. Being a person with a fairly short attention span, working within the system of going to endless meetings, working within the NASA system, which is really the one that Chris [Christopher C.] Kraft [Jr.], Al Shepard, Deke [Donald K.] Slayton, and those guys made up on how to run a space program, really functions well in terms of checks and balances and procedures. Learning to work in that system has its challenges, because you have to really carefully document and account for everything you do. So just working in that system was a bit of a challenge for somebody like me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your biggest accomplishment while working at NASA, if you had to pick one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would rank the family support plan as one. I think that’s had a big impact on the quality of life of the astronaut program. Then just technically, I think the work that I did on the spacesuit made it a useful tool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that you think we’ve skipped over today that we should talk about before we end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there are a zillion stories. I mean, you could get hours and hours from everybody. This is probably okay for now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thank you very much for taking time today."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00179:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 60.348251876186524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great place to be, and it was out in kind of a desolate area, and I remember when it came time to demonstrate that the airplane was airworthy to the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration], we had to take it out to a little airport runway that was four or five miles away. We would take it out in the front yard and run the engine up just to get time on the engine. Tie a rope around the tail and to a tree and start the engine and let it run just to get some time in. The morning that we were going to go out, we got up a little early and I thought we were going to tow it out to the airport, and Henry said, “Well, let’s put the wings on one more time and see if they fit.” So we did, and he checked the controls out and he said, “Tell you what. I’ll meet you out at the airport,” and he proceeded to taxi out on the street and took off on the street to fly out to the airport so that the FAA guy could then show up mid-morning and look it over thoroughly and see if it was safe to try and fly. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an opportunity to fly it as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, quite a bit, yes. Yes, I flew that an awful lot. It was a fun little airplane to fly. Very basic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly knew every nut and bolt that went into it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] Yes. Yes. It took a little bit of time to get it rigged just right so you didn’t have to hold pressure on the control stick to fly so you could take your hands off, but it was a fun airplane to fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How exciting was it for you to learn that you were assigned to George Air Force Base and be on your way?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00179:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 62.60916875131836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, quite a bit, yes. Yes, I flew that an awful lot. It was a fun little airplane to fly. Very basic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly knew every nut and bolt that went into it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] Yes. Yes. It took a little bit of time to get it rigged just right so you didn’t have to hold pressure on the control stick to fly so you could take your hands off, but it was a fun airplane to fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How exciting was it for you to learn that you were assigned to George Air Force Base and be on your way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very exciting, because George was only forty miles from Edwards Air Force Base [California], and by that time I had my degree, and, while getting my degree, I saw an opportunity to apply some of the engineering that I had learned and decided that being a test pilot was probably a good way to fashion a more secure or more long-range career in flying.\\n\\n Plus I think there was a little bit of tugging. My parents were very, very supportive of my wanting to fly. My dad was a vocational agriculture instructor at the high school, and Mom was a teacher. They knew nothing about airplanes. Nobody in Chapman knew anything about airplanes, except the one guy who was a total airport bum, drunken bum, and he would fly over at Abilene [Kansas], and that was the only exposure they had. So it was really kind of tough, I know, for Dad to explain to all the faculty and his friends that his son wanted to be a pilot. [Laughs] I know he would have liked for me very much to have gotten into farming or agriculture of some kind, but he was totally supportive. Both Mom and Dad were very, very, very supportive, and I just totally, totally appreciated that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "George Air Force Base was a little bit far from them, too, so that was a big separation for you as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00179:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 65.01995282885278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He loves to remind people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s always nice to get that other side of that story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when you applied to do Air Force Test Pilot School, he recommended you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He sure did. Probably one of the reasons was that I learned that I needed 1500 hours of flying time to be able to apply to the test pilot school. They didn’t say what kind of flying time, although they preferred it to be high performance. But at that time you really could fly most anything you were willing to devote the time to go fly, and we had a squadron based at George that did aerial tow-target work for not only air-to-air gunnery for our fighters, but also for the Army. They’d tow banners on long ropes for the people on the ground to shoot at. They flew old [Lockheed] P-80s [Shooting Star] and [Martin] B-26s [Marauder], nothing spectacular at all, but they were airplanes and they were flying time. So on days that I was not scheduled to fly in the squadron, and on weekends, I would go down and fly with them. Also, in the mornings, we had an old De Havilland Beaver, an old bush plane really that we would ferry people back and forth to our gunnery range, the range officers that score the targets and things, and I would fly it back and forth, again just to build up flying time.\\n\\n I learned later that Chuck’s philosophy was that the good pilots are the ones who have the most flying, who go after flying the hardest and take it serious, and I think that that probably influenced him to support and recommend me for the test pilot school more than anything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us what that was like being in test pilot school? How did they start training you to move into your new position?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.083111504829017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We studied French. I had had I've gotten my first 10 years had been at Banneker Elementary, junior in high school in Catonsville, and French was the only language spoken there. And so I resumed the French when I was at Catonsville High. And we had a really strict, unforgiving French teacher. I can't remember her name which is just as well. And she gave us a test the first day we were there. And then she seated us, according to the test results, putting the top test level at the front. And of course, the last five people, I was number five and there was a white girl and the other three students, we got the lowest, the lowest scores. And she purposely, I think, embarrassed us by seating us like that, which is pretty un- adult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you did get into college and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a choice because I did I did manage to get a scholarship and I had a choice of going to the University of Maryland or I guess any campus within the University of Maryland complex. And I chose to go to Morgan State College, which by that time was in the University of Maryland complex, because I had had such a lonely time. I wouldn't say lonely but isolated time at Catonsville High School. And I thought, I don't need to continue doing this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you entered Morehead State, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Morgan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Morgan. I'm sorry, Morgan State, did you have a career in mind?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.75901278314335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a choice because I did I did manage to get a scholarship and I had a choice of going to the University of Maryland or I guess any campus within the University of Maryland complex. And I chose to go to Morgan State College, which by that time was in the University of Maryland complex, because I had had such a lonely time. I wouldn't say lonely but isolated time at Catonsville High School. And I thought, I don't need to continue doing this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you entered Morehead State, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Morgan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Morgan. I'm sorry, Morgan State, did you have a career in mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to be a teacher. Everybody was going to be a teacher. At that time. I had I had English. I was going to teach English and I had a scholarship for that. And I was actually supposed to be part of that was to teach within the Maryland school system for two years afterwards. But when I was selected for the Peace Corps, that requirement was waived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you have an interest in teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.621125314603724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Morgan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Morgan. I'm sorry, Morgan State, did you have a career in mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to be a teacher. Everybody was going to be a teacher. At that time. I had I had English. I was going to teach English and I had a scholarship for that. And I was actually supposed to be part of that was to teach within the Maryland school system for two years afterwards. But when I was selected for the Peace Corps, that requirement was waived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you have an interest in teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that I think we were sheltered. And we you know, when I when I was a kid, I wanted to be a lawyer and I wanted to be a writer. But realistically, that's what most people did, young women and particularly young black women, that that was what we aspired to do because that was what was open to us or that's what we assumed was open to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you continue your French studies in college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.134583682893025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to be a teacher. Everybody was going to be a teacher. At that time. I had I had English. I was going to teach English and I had a scholarship for that. And I was actually supposed to be part of that was to teach within the Maryland school system for two years afterwards. But when I was selected for the Peace Corps, that requirement was waived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you have an interest in teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that I think we were sheltered. And we you know, when I when I was a kid, I wanted to be a lawyer and I wanted to be a writer. But realistically, that's what most people did, young women and particularly young black women, that that was what we aspired to do because that was what was open to us or that's what we assumed was open to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you continue your French studies in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I took German, or German took me. I had some Latin, but I didn't get back into French until I actually until I joined the Foreign Service and was sent off to work. And my husband was sent off to Tunisia and I accompanied him and that's when I resumed the French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, would you characterize yourself in college after your studies completed your studies as fluent in any of the languages you studied?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.482870758770028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that I think we were sheltered. And we you know, when I when I was a kid, I wanted to be a lawyer and I wanted to be a writer. But realistically, that's what most people did, young women and particularly young black women, that that was what we aspired to do because that was what was open to us or that's what we assumed was open to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you continue your French studies in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I took German, or German took me. I had some Latin, but I didn't get back into French until I actually until I joined the Foreign Service and was sent off to work. And my husband was sent off to Tunisia and I accompanied him and that's when I resumed the French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, would you characterize yourself in college after your studies completed your studies as fluent in any of the languages you studied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not until the Foreign Service. Well, and even in the Philippines, we were taught, as Peace Corps volunteers, we were taught Tagalog, which was called Filipino. And then we were sent to all different regions. There are more than 80 dialects in the Philippines. So none of us was sent to the Tagalog speaking region. And most, and of course, we used English mostly because our language was our fluency was not as good as the Filipinos fluency in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In college, did you do any traveling, have any extracurricular activities?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.980967509744476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I took German, or German took me. I had some Latin, but I didn't get back into French until I actually until I joined the Foreign Service and was sent off to work. And my husband was sent off to Tunisia and I accompanied him and that's when I resumed the French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, would you characterize yourself in college after your studies completed your studies as fluent in any of the languages you studied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not until the Foreign Service. Well, and even in the Philippines, we were taught, as Peace Corps volunteers, we were taught Tagalog, which was called Filipino. And then we were sent to all different regions. There are more than 80 dialects in the Philippines. So none of us was sent to the Tagalog speaking region. And most, and of course, we used English mostly because our language was our fluency was not as good as the Filipinos fluency in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In college, did you do any traveling, have any extracurricular activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. I think I was with the, what was it, kind of a home economics group that traveled to various colleges but nothing out, not outside of the country. I had not been on a plane before I went off with the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you went outside Maryland?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.64551945527164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not until the Foreign Service. Well, and even in the Philippines, we were taught, as Peace Corps volunteers, we were taught Tagalog, which was called Filipino. And then we were sent to all different regions. There are more than 80 dialects in the Philippines. So none of us was sent to the Tagalog speaking region. And most, and of course, we used English mostly because our language was our fluency was not as good as the Filipinos fluency in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In college, did you do any traveling, have any extracurricular activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. I think I was with the, what was it, kind of a home economics group that traveled to various colleges but nothing out, not outside of the country. I had not been on a plane before I went off with the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you went outside Maryland?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. And as I said, my mom was very adventurous. So we traveled, you know, around the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you become aware of the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.272799394746265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. I think I was with the, what was it, kind of a home economics group that traveled to various colleges but nothing out, not outside of the country. I had not been on a plane before I went off with the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you went outside Maryland?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. And as I said, my mom was very adventurous. So we traveled, you know, around the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you become aware of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was part of Kennedy's campaign. And it was being touted that it was going to happen even before he became president in the and I took the exam my first opportunity. That was probably June of 1961, and I had a telegram. Well, I wanted to go to Africa and I told you why I want to go to Africa because I met all these students and because I'd seen those two documentaries which inspired me. But then I got a telegram offering me the Philippines. And the telegram arrived 12 hours after I had taken the Peace Corps exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They must have liked your performance on the exam."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.858665994162518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. And as I said, my mom was very adventurous. So we traveled, you know, around the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you become aware of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was part of Kennedy's campaign. And it was being touted that it was going to happen even before he became president in the and I took the exam my first opportunity. That was probably June of 1961, and I had a telegram. Well, I wanted to go to Africa and I told you why I want to go to Africa because I met all these students and because I'd seen those two documentaries which inspired me. But then I got a telegram offering me the Philippines. And the telegram arrived 12 hours after I had taken the Peace Corps exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They must have liked your performance on the exam."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were trying to get the program of the Peace Corps Act, which had just been signed and in March, I think so. I think they were trying to get the program off the ground. But I was certainly thrilled and looked up on the map to find out where the Philippines was. And, you know, and that's. Back to my mom, I mean, she let me integrate that school. She could have said, I don't want you going off to the Philippines. You know, she was very open and letting me soar as far as I could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she felt OK about losing her little girl for two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.30681206332307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, about 20 years later, after I've been a Peace Corps volunteer and was back home, my mom said, you know, when you were offered the Philippines, I didn't realize just how far it was and when I took you to the airport, I saw you off and she was with a neighbor, went with her, and she said, I promised I would not cry. I didn't want you to see the last vision that had the last vision of me crying. So I kept my cool until you got on the plane. And then I fell apart. And my friend and I were walking back to the car and we went by this airport bar and the bartender came out and said, bring that lady in, she needs a drink. But you know, she had the courage and the foresight not to worry me about that, not to even tell me until I said, you know, I was probably 20 years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is amazing. Do you remember how you felt when you received that telegram?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was almost I wasn't sure whether it was real. I mean, 12 hours, and then everything happened very quickly. We went to State College University, Pennsylvania State College, for training in July 1961, so. So that didn't give us much time to think. I was too busy planning. And then people were saying, well, why are you going off to volunteer? What about your career? What about your, what about a decent salary? What about buying a house? What about car? What about an apartment? And I said, no, I want to do this and I can do those other things later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you got the telegram. You were ready to accept the invitation. Did you have any misgivings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No misgivings, none. No. I knew this was very special."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly blazing a trail."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.007568959247855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was almost I wasn't sure whether it was real. I mean, 12 hours, and then everything happened very quickly. We went to State College University, Pennsylvania State College, for training in July 1961, so. So that didn't give us much time to think. I was too busy planning. And then people were saying, well, why are you going off to volunteer? What about your career? What about your, what about a decent salary? What about buying a house? What about car? What about an apartment? And I said, no, I want to do this and I can do those other things later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you got the telegram. You were ready to accept the invitation. Did you have any misgivings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No misgivings, none. No. I knew this was very special."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly blazing a trail."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent. So you went off to training and where was that again?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.341743288053173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No misgivings, none. No. I knew this was very special."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly blazing a trail."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent. So you went off to training and where was that again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a state University of Pennsylvania State College, State College, Pennsylvania, and that was a that was about six weeks of training, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok? And all of the members of the group that you mentioned, are how many?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.82415920894797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent. So you went off to training and where was that again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a state University of Pennsylvania State College, State College, Pennsylvania, and that was a that was about six weeks of training, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok? And all of the members of the group that you mentioned, are how many?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were 100 if my memory serves me correctly. They were 165 of us that went into training and 128 of us made it all through. And others who left. I'm not sure how many left on their own volition or others who were not selected. We had lots of tests, you know, kind of like, I guess, the kind of test you take to get into graduate school and then we had interviews, so we had to pass a security background. And that might have been a factor for some people. And we did have an interview with the psychiatrist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what kind of facilities were used in this in the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.360176898831078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a state University of Pennsylvania State College, State College, Pennsylvania, and that was a that was about six weeks of training, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok? And all of the members of the group that you mentioned, are how many?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were 100 if my memory serves me correctly. They were 165 of us that went into training and 128 of us made it all through. And others who left. I'm not sure how many left on their own volition or others who were not selected. We had lots of tests, you know, kind of like, I guess, the kind of test you take to get into graduate school and then we had interviews, so we had to pass a security background. And that might have been a factor for some people. And we did have an interview with the psychiatrist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what kind of facilities were used in this in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the university in the summertime, so we were in student dormitories and I had a dorm room with another volunteer who was in training. Ellen Brindle was her name. Wonderful lady."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you trained where it was in a classroom environment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.733529887590086, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were 100 if my memory serves me correctly. They were 165 of us that went into training and 128 of us made it all through. And others who left. I'm not sure how many left on their own volition or others who were not selected. We had lots of tests, you know, kind of like, I guess, the kind of test you take to get into graduate school and then we had interviews, so we had to pass a security background. And that might have been a factor for some people. And we did have an interview with the psychiatrist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what kind of facilities were used in this in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the university in the summertime, so we were in student dormitories and I had a dorm room with another volunteer who was in training. Ellen Brindle was her name. Wonderful lady."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you trained where it was in a classroom environment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in a classroom environment and was mainly focusing on the culture of the Philippines, the history and then some of the methods of teaching, but the most significant part of the training was on the cultural sensitivity part. And there was a Professor Guthrie who was so perceptive and so enlightening on how each culture basically has the same values, but the priority list of those values can vary. For example, we in the U.S. like to think that honesty is at the top of our list, whereas in some Asian cultures, shame is often at the top of the list. So being shamed is more is less important, to be honest, than to make sure you don't shame somebody. That kind of thing. And that, as brash young Americans, that was something we really needed to learn because we know we were just out of college, most of us, and we wanted to express our opinions and tell it like it is. And that didn't always work. And we had to learn. I think some of those lessons from that cultural training have helped me throughout my life. And certainly as a diplomat, I learned a lot from that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think about the other trainees as a as a group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.24489696514415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. It was a very interesting group, as I said, if only there were actually three African-Americans in the group and two of us made it through training there. The male applicant didn't make it for one reason or another. They were, as I said, 165 of us, 128 made it. Very friendly. We had a lot of fun. And, you know, we were back on campus again. And I remember there was a very nice watering hole where we would meet, have a few beers in the in the evening. It was almost like summer camp in a way. And everybody was very enthusiastic. And, you know, these were people coming from all over the country. So that in itself was a very unique experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since this was the first training that Peace Corps had ever done, did you feel like it was good training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd say for the most part. I mean, we complained and we complained a lot. We also complained when we were overseas and we were young and looking for and expecting perfection. And it was it wasn't going to happen. Now I realize it just doesn't have to, period. But I think it was, as I said, the cultural sensitivity part of it was the best part, I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to do any practice teaching and or was it mostly focused on cultural and language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly on culture and language, yeah. I don't think there was another training period after we got to the Philippines at Los Baños, and that went on for about a month. So we have more training in the culture and more on the teaching aspects as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever find anything in the training to be funny?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.82766329460461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd say for the most part. I mean, we complained and we complained a lot. We also complained when we were overseas and we were young and looking for and expecting perfection. And it was it wasn't going to happen. Now I realize it just doesn't have to, period. But I think it was, as I said, the cultural sensitivity part of it was the best part, I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to do any practice teaching and or was it mostly focused on cultural and language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly on culture and language, yeah. I don't think there was another training period after we got to the Philippines at Los Baños, and that went on for about a month. So we have more training in the culture and more on the teaching aspects as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever find anything in the training to be funny?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I did. I had the letter, I was just looking through some letters that I sent to my mom about the training that while we were in training at least one year in the Philippines. We had a typhoon come through and I had never experienced a typhoon and I'm describing how we were, you know, the dining room was flooded. We had to double up in the women's dorm because part of that, the ceiling was leaking. And at the time that seemed rather funny, probably wasn't. But it's probably funnier while reading it in hindsight than it was at the time. And then, and sometimes. We became very, very close as a group, and that was very heartening and we had a good time, we respected each other and we had a good time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody was destined to be a teacher?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.586292549560678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly on culture and language, yeah. I don't think there was another training period after we got to the Philippines at Los Baños, and that went on for about a month. So we have more training in the culture and more on the teaching aspects as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever find anything in the training to be funny?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I did. I had the letter, I was just looking through some letters that I sent to my mom about the training that while we were in training at least one year in the Philippines. We had a typhoon come through and I had never experienced a typhoon and I'm describing how we were, you know, the dining room was flooded. We had to double up in the women's dorm because part of that, the ceiling was leaking. And at the time that seemed rather funny, probably wasn't. But it's probably funnier while reading it in hindsight than it was at the time. And then, and sometimes. We became very, very close as a group, and that was very heartening and we had a good time, we respected each other and we had a good time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody was destined to be a teacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, yeah. That group, we some of us branched out after we got there. But yes, we were supposed to be teaching. We were actually supposed to be helping Filipinos learn, teaching English as a second language. And in the end, most of us ended up teaching the students directly, which I'm sure was much more rewarding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the other trainees education majors like you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.54032505506742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I did. I had the letter, I was just looking through some letters that I sent to my mom about the training that while we were in training at least one year in the Philippines. We had a typhoon come through and I had never experienced a typhoon and I'm describing how we were, you know, the dining room was flooded. We had to double up in the women's dorm because part of that, the ceiling was leaking. And at the time that seemed rather funny, probably wasn't. But it's probably funnier while reading it in hindsight than it was at the time. And then, and sometimes. We became very, very close as a group, and that was very heartening and we had a good time, we respected each other and we had a good time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody was destined to be a teacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, yeah. That group, we some of us branched out after we got there. But yes, we were supposed to be teaching. We were actually supposed to be helping Filipinos learn, teaching English as a second language. And in the end, most of us ended up teaching the students directly, which I'm sure was much more rewarding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the other trainees education majors like you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, some of them were. Some of them were. They were, they were everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they were all college grads?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.48925006118602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, yeah. That group, we some of us branched out after we got there. But yes, we were supposed to be teaching. We were actually supposed to be helping Filipinos learn, teaching English as a second language. And in the end, most of us ended up teaching the students directly, which I'm sure was much more rewarding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the other trainees education majors like you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, some of them were. Some of them were. They were, they were everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they were all college grads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all college graduates. And we had one couple that was in their 50s, the Kennedys. No relation, no relation, and I mean, they were the most organized and the most probably the most effective volunteers. They were married couple. I would think they were the only married couple we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during the period of training, did you feel confident that you were going to make it through and actually get to go to the Philippines?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.543611179095578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, some of them were. Some of them were. They were, they were everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they were all college grads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all college graduates. And we had one couple that was in their 50s, the Kennedys. No relation, no relation, and I mean, they were the most organized and the most probably the most effective volunteers. They were married couple. I would think they were the only married couple we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during the period of training, did you feel confident that you were going to make it through and actually get to go to the Philippines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I as I recall, I felt quite confident and it never occurred to me that I wouldn't have gotten that far. And I didn't see any reason why I would be disqualified. And I didn't. I was only 22. I didn't have that much experience to warrant security issues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what types of things were you telling your family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.4929013101062, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all college graduates. And we had one couple that was in their 50s, the Kennedys. No relation, no relation, and I mean, they were the most organized and the most probably the most effective volunteers. They were married couple. I would think they were the only married couple we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during the period of training, did you feel confident that you were going to make it through and actually get to go to the Philippines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I as I recall, I felt quite confident and it never occurred to me that I wouldn't have gotten that far. And I didn't see any reason why I would be disqualified. And I didn't. I was only 22. I didn't have that much experience to warrant security issues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what types of things were you telling your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My family was, my mother was very positive, very encouraging. Other people were incredulous. I mean, including some of my college professors. I mean, that I would take off and go off into Neverland, into the unknown when I could be pursuing a career. And they even though I was teaching at some, didn't see it as a career. They just saw it as, how much money would you be making when they learned we would only make the equivalent of what a Filipino teacher would make, which at that time was 52 dollars a month. They didn't understand why, but there were I mean, there were so many others who were that the scale was tipped on those that were really happy and excited that I was going and willing to go along with this adventure with me in terms of tell us what you're doing right us. And when I wrote back to my mom, it was like writing to the whole family because the letters were shared by everybody, even when I was in training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what kinds of things did you have to say during training in the communication with your family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 20.54766812234022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I as I recall, I felt quite confident and it never occurred to me that I wouldn't have gotten that far. And I didn't see any reason why I would be disqualified. And I didn't. I was only 22. I didn't have that much experience to warrant security issues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what types of things were you telling your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My family was, my mother was very positive, very encouraging. Other people were incredulous. I mean, including some of my college professors. I mean, that I would take off and go off into Neverland, into the unknown when I could be pursuing a career. And they even though I was teaching at some, didn't see it as a career. They just saw it as, how much money would you be making when they learned we would only make the equivalent of what a Filipino teacher would make, which at that time was 52 dollars a month. They didn't understand why, but there were I mean, there were so many others who were that the scale was tipped on those that were really happy and excited that I was going and willing to go along with this adventure with me in terms of tell us what you're doing right us. And when I wrote back to my mom, it was like writing to the whole family because the letters were shared by everybody, even when I was in training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what kinds of things did you have to say during training in the communication with your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How friendly, how friendly it was, how friendly the group was. And I remember now it was the first time that I had been in a welcoming integrated environment, a much more welcoming than what I had experienced in high school, so that was a whole new experience. And in some of my letters to my mother, I would I mention that. And I also mention it once we were in training and in the Philippines, that we got along so well. And I wondered how these same people would have gotten along in the States when in a community where there was much more pressure to be segregated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the training in the States, was there a swearing in ceremony or did that did you have a swearing in at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.810730278819657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn’t that shocking because in training, we had seen a lot of films and pictures of the Philippines and Los Baños was just beautiful. It's a research center, right, research center. And we actually stayed in the area. That was a former Boy Scout camp. And as I said, we had two dorms and a big mess hall. And there was a there was a swimming pool, which wasn't very much of a swimming pool, but there was and there was a very nice town. And the town folks were very welcoming to us and we befriended some of them. And sometimes some folks would invite us to dinner, a few of us at a time. I have a picture of it, the town was roasting one of the little pigs for us, the lechon. We were just treated royally, I would say, almost the whole time we were in the Philippines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you arrived, you went into a in-country training orientation. How long did that last?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think seem to recall it was about a month. And then we at that time, we didn't know exactly what town we would be assigned in to be assigned to once we left training. And all of that was sorted out. And then I was assigned to Magarao, Camarines Sur, which is in the southern tip of Luzon near Naga City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were given your assignment, did you have any input as to where it would be or did you take whatever was given to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You took whatever was given to you. And I was in a household with three other women and we were all teaching, but I was teaching in the town of Magarao and the other three were in nearby towns. So in that sense, I was I was the luckiest to be able to teach in the town where I live, which allowed me to establish more rapport with the with the school and the townsfolk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd had this language training in Tagalog?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.345255865355174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think seem to recall it was about a month. And then we at that time, we didn't know exactly what town we would be assigned in to be assigned to once we left training. And all of that was sorted out. And then I was assigned to Magarao, Camarines Sur, which is in the southern tip of Luzon near Naga City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were given your assignment, did you have any input as to where it would be or did you take whatever was given to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You took whatever was given to you. And I was in a household with three other women and we were all teaching, but I was teaching in the town of Magarao and the other three were in nearby towns. So in that sense, I was I was the luckiest to be able to teach in the town where I live, which allowed me to establish more rapport with the with the school and the townsfolk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd had this language training in Tagalog?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we go to Bikol and we didn't speak Bicolano."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you found your Tagalog was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.939173183727971, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You took whatever was given to you. And I was in a household with three other women and we were all teaching, but I was teaching in the town of Magarao and the other three were in nearby towns. So in that sense, I was I was the luckiest to be able to teach in the town where I live, which allowed me to establish more rapport with the with the school and the townsfolk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd had this language training in Tagalog?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we go to Bikol and we didn't speak Bicolano."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you found your Tagalog was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it is there, for many of Filipinos, it was their second language, English being probably the third, the first being Bicolano. So certain words were useful, but you really did not need it to communicate. Thank goodness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could usually get by in English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.599081315253301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we go to Bikol and we didn't speak Bicolano."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you found your Tagalog was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it is there, for many of Filipinos, it was their second language, English being probably the third, the first being Bicolano. So certain words were useful, but you really did not need it to communicate. Thank goodness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could usually get by in English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And it was nice when you knew a few phrases of, you know, magandang hapon po, which is a greeting that you give to, to those you respect and that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely. I think that's true in pretty much every country. If you can't learn anything else, learn the proper greetings."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.3323125725036675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it is there, for many of Filipinos, it was their second language, English being probably the third, the first being Bicolano. So certain words were useful, but you really did not need it to communicate. Thank goodness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could usually get by in English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And it was nice when you knew a few phrases of, you know, magandang hapon po, which is a greeting that you give to, to those you respect and that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely. I think that's true in pretty much every country. If you can't learn anything else, learn the proper greetings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The greetings and thank yous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And indeed, those are very important. So how far away was your assigned school from the training site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.924791747226297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And it was nice when you knew a few phrases of, you know, magandang hapon po, which is a greeting that you give to, to those you respect and that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely. I think that's true in pretty much every country. If you can't learn anything else, learn the proper greetings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The greetings and thank yous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And indeed, those are very important. So how far away was your assigned school from the training site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was the training site was an hour from Manila in another direction. We took, it took us eight hours by train to get to Magarao and it was a very rough ride, an open car train. Now, transportation was, uh, had a lot to be desired in the Philippines, and even so, even every day transportation. A bus was not a bus. It really was a truck that had seats constructed on it, long benches. And you just piled onto the side of the open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was open to the elements."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.583101941362552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The greetings and thank yous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And indeed, those are very important. So how far away was your assigned school from the training site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was the training site was an hour from Manila in another direction. We took, it took us eight hours by train to get to Magarao and it was a very rough ride, an open car train. Now, transportation was, uh, had a lot to be desired in the Philippines, and even so, even every day transportation. A bus was not a bus. It really was a truck that had seats constructed on it, long benches. And you just piled onto the side of the open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was open to the elements."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was definitely open to the elements, open to the vendors, hawkers. Every time you stopped to let more people in. In the back section was called the kitchen, where the cows, the chickens, livestock, the livestock was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when the sun was out, it was hot and when it rained?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.314557712625057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was the training site was an hour from Manila in another direction. We took, it took us eight hours by train to get to Magarao and it was a very rough ride, an open car train. Now, transportation was, uh, had a lot to be desired in the Philippines, and even so, even every day transportation. A bus was not a bus. It really was a truck that had seats constructed on it, long benches. And you just piled onto the side of the open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was open to the elements."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was definitely open to the elements, open to the vendors, hawkers. Every time you stopped to let more people in. In the back section was called the kitchen, where the cows, the chickens, livestock, the livestock was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when the sun was out, it was hot and when it rained?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was always hot. It was very hot climate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when it rained you got soaked."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.127286347361174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was definitely open to the elements, open to the vendors, hawkers. Every time you stopped to let more people in. In the back section was called the kitchen, where the cows, the chickens, livestock, the livestock was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when the sun was out, it was hot and when it rained?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was always hot. It was very hot climate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when it rained you got soaked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah and mosquitoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where it was the same conditions that the Filipinos enjoyed, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.030318163734638, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was always hot. It was very hot climate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when it rained you got soaked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah and mosquitoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where it was the same conditions that the Filipinos enjoyed, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't remember malaria, though. I don't think malaria was an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only Peace Corps volunteer in the town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.03368684859404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah and mosquitoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where it was the same conditions that the Filipinos enjoyed, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't remember malaria, though. I don't think malaria was an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only Peace Corps volunteer in the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, four of us lived in the town in Magarao, but I was the only teacher, only one working there. The others took jeepneys or the famous busses to their nearby towns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you worked in town, but the others had to travel every day for their job assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.148540942882267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't remember malaria, though. I don't think malaria was an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only Peace Corps volunteer in the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, four of us lived in the town in Magarao, but I was the only teacher, only one working there. The others took jeepneys or the famous busses to their nearby towns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you worked in town, but the others had to travel every day for their job assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I could walk from my house to the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of staying in touch with other trainees from the group, were you able to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.27615660320252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, four of us lived in the town in Magarao, but I was the only teacher, only one working there. The others took jeepneys or the famous busses to their nearby towns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you worked in town, but the others had to travel every day for their job assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I could walk from my house to the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of staying in touch with other trainees from the group, were you able to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, we are. We had a network and we could go visit different. Most of us were in households of four, but somehow we managed to accommodate if people stayed over or nearby, even nearby Filipina families with Filipino families would help us. But we visited a lot. We had a lot of exchange and we had a Peace Corps volunteer leader who would travel from one household to the next to see what we needed. And he was also kind of the, you know, the region gossip. So we would find out what this group was doing, what that group was doing. Kept us in touch. The Peace Corps, I think, was very supportive, you know, when we arrived and they gave us kind of a care package which had several books in it. Well, mainly books, a book locker is what it was. But my mother was also so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you would go to visit other volunteers, you would do what in your visits?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.0846184480028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I could walk from my house to the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of staying in touch with other trainees from the group, were you able to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, we are. We had a network and we could go visit different. Most of us were in households of four, but somehow we managed to accommodate if people stayed over or nearby, even nearby Filipina families with Filipino families would help us. But we visited a lot. We had a lot of exchange and we had a Peace Corps volunteer leader who would travel from one household to the next to see what we needed. And he was also kind of the, you know, the region gossip. So we would find out what this group was doing, what that group was doing. Kept us in touch. The Peace Corps, I think, was very supportive, you know, when we arrived and they gave us kind of a care package which had several books in it. Well, mainly books, a book locker is what it was. But my mother was also so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you would go to visit other volunteers, you would do what in your visits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We played cards, we entertained each other, we cooked. One time, we had a march for a charity and we walked, I don't remember now how many kilometers, from Naga City to Legazpi. I do remember that my that my feet wore out, but it was a several hour walk for a charity. We also. My household and another household got together and devised a summer day camp for the first summer we were there. We solicited supplies from various companies and we got the counselors were high school students. By this time, my one of my classmates, my housemates had moved to teaching in high school. And so we had this network of high school students that were counselors for the elementary school students that we had and we used the school premises. It was very, very successful. And I'm still in touch with one of the counselors who since moved to the States and married an American and has a family here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have access to a telephone?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.391553536897828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always had indoor, but no, no hot water, but always and not all volunteers did, but we did. We always had electricity. We always had. We had a big problem with ants. And I remember one Thanksgiving, I'd learned to cook this cake on this little kerosene oven that goes with that kerosene stove. The oven goes up on top of it. And I baked this cake and it was a chocolate cake. And so we were afraid ants were going to get into it, so we put it in a big pedestal in the tub of water. And as we were about to slice the cake, we could see the chocolate moving. The ants had somehow managed to swim across and get it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they can be resourceful. So you had to take care of all your own shopping, cooking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were expected to have a maid. We had a maid because we were teachers. I mean, that was what you did. And we had Rita and she was a lovely person. And it took us some adjusting to get used to Rita because none of us were accustomed to having servants. And when I say one of my, in my essays, that Rita really got very upset with us. And I think it was at that, because she said, we talk too fast, we didn't listen. We were just, we did everything too fast for her. And I realized at that point that all of this cultural sensitivity we were supposedly practicing, we had not practiced it, practiced it on the person closest to us in our household. And that was a lesson learned. But she became, I saw her. I went back to the Philippines after I was in the Foreign Service. And I went back to my village, my town, and went and saw some of the people that I had known, including Rita, including that former counselor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about what would you say the population was of the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "10,000, pretty big."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. It was not a small town."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.43505948544203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were expected to have a maid. We had a maid because we were teachers. I mean, that was what you did. And we had Rita and she was a lovely person. And it took us some adjusting to get used to Rita because none of us were accustomed to having servants. And when I say one of my, in my essays, that Rita really got very upset with us. And I think it was at that, because she said, we talk too fast, we didn't listen. We were just, we did everything too fast for her. And I realized at that point that all of this cultural sensitivity we were supposedly practicing, we had not practiced it, practiced it on the person closest to us in our household. And that was a lesson learned. But she became, I saw her. I went back to the Philippines after I was in the Foreign Service. And I went back to my village, my town, and went and saw some of the people that I had known, including Rita, including that former counselor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about what would you say the population was of the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "10,000, pretty big."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. It was not a small town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you didn't seem that way when you went through it, but it was lots of, you know, houses off into the fields."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any health or injury issues while you were serving?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.483399428268923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "10,000, pretty big."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. It was not a small town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you didn't seem that way when you went through it, but it was lots of, you know, houses off into the fields."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any health or injury issues while you were serving?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t, I was incredibly, I didn't I didn't even have the, you know, usually belly problems that people have. We were very careful. We also taught, really seriously, how to take care of our health and we had Peace Corps doctors. We had two Peace Corps doctors who were in the country who visited us, and we had good dental health. And I think we were fairly well taken care of, but we did lose a volunteer. Probably one of the first to die in the Peace Corps, David Mulholland. He had stomach problems and gastro problems and he passed away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been pretty severe."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.64822158696547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you didn't seem that way when you went through it, but it was lots of, you know, houses off into the fields."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any health or injury issues while you were serving?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t, I was incredibly, I didn't I didn't even have the, you know, usually belly problems that people have. We were very careful. We also taught, really seriously, how to take care of our health and we had Peace Corps doctors. We had two Peace Corps doctors who were in the country who visited us, and we had good dental health. And I think we were fairly well taken care of, but we did lose a volunteer. Probably one of the first to die in the Peace Corps, David Mulholland. He had stomach problems and gastro problems and he passed away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been pretty severe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty severe. And I think that, you know, he thought he could overcome them or ride them out. And that was real tragedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is. So talking about your, the school where you were teaching. What did you think of the school building itself when you first saw it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.942468429961632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t, I was incredibly, I didn't I didn't even have the, you know, usually belly problems that people have. We were very careful. We also taught, really seriously, how to take care of our health and we had Peace Corps doctors. We had two Peace Corps doctors who were in the country who visited us, and we had good dental health. And I think we were fairly well taken care of, but we did lose a volunteer. Probably one of the first to die in the Peace Corps, David Mulholland. He had stomach problems and gastro problems and he passed away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been pretty severe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty severe. And I think that, you know, he thought he could overcome them or ride them out. And that was real tragedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is. So talking about your, the school where you were teaching. What did you think of the school building itself when you first saw it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not that. It was a very, you know, the students were very, they were required to keep the school clean. So they swept and they raked and the buildings were sturdy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it made out of wood?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 13.269409366624036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty severe. And I think that, you know, he thought he could overcome them or ride them out. And that was real tragedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is. So talking about your, the school where you were teaching. What did you think of the school building itself when you first saw it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not that. It was a very, you know, the students were very, they were required to keep the school clean. So they swept and they raked and the buildings were sturdy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it made out of wood?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wood. Kind of open, open window. Well, actually, slat windows that open up, I mean, if you kept them close, they would there was no glass. So you open air and that could be, you know, it was raining. There could be a problem because you could if it wasn't coming in, at least you could hear it. But I'd say the rooms were, the school was adequately equipped. Unlike what I often saw in Togo later on and in some other places in the developing world where I've lived or visited. Um, I did I tell you about my library? As part of my school project?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but you can now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.854899296248928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not that. It was a very, you know, the students were very, they were required to keep the school clean. So they swept and they raked and the buildings were sturdy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it made out of wood?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wood. Kind of open, open window. Well, actually, slat windows that open up, I mean, if you kept them close, they would there was no glass. So you open air and that could be, you know, it was raining. There could be a problem because you could if it wasn't coming in, at least you could hear it. But I'd say the rooms were, the school was adequately equipped. Unlike what I often saw in Togo later on and in some other places in the developing world where I've lived or visited. Um, I did I tell you about my library? As part of my school project?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but you can now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always. My friend Barbara, Barbara Bassett, she was one of my other roommates. She and I started a library and she becomes less involved in it because she wasn't living in in the town. And then she moved, as I said, to work in the high school. I started a library, Magarao Community Library, and my mother collected 4,000 books for this library. She solicited the books from the Enoch Pratt Library, various bookstores, various schools, and we arranged to get the USAID, United States Information Agency, and some non- governmental organizations such as Asia Foundation to ship the books. All in all we collected, the library had 7,000 books and she said most of them, including five sets of encyclopedias, which at that that 1960s, encyclopedias were very, very important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "State of the art."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.759134933640652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always. My friend Barbara, Barbara Bassett, she was one of my other roommates. She and I started a library and she becomes less involved in it because she wasn't living in in the town. And then she moved, as I said, to work in the high school. I started a library, Magarao Community Library, and my mother collected 4,000 books for this library. She solicited the books from the Enoch Pratt Library, various bookstores, various schools, and we arranged to get the USAID, United States Information Agency, and some non- governmental organizations such as Asia Foundation to ship the books. All in all we collected, the library had 7,000 books and she said most of them, including five sets of encyclopedias, which at that that 1960s, encyclopedias were very, very important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "State of the art."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And that library have a picture of the 10 year anniversary of the library. I know it stayed in existence almost 15 years until they had a typhoon that came through the area. Now, what I don't know is how the books were replenished or if they were replenished. And there was a custodian that I worked with. First of all, the town found a spot for the library and then the custodian worked with me to help catalog the books. And he became the librarian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Very good. Very good. And did your students at the school live at home and get transportation or walk to school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, mostly walked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was not a boarding school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.875475226716854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, mostly walked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was not a boarding school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had a really dynamic teaching staff and most of all, a dynamic principal. Woman principal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were impressed with the other faculty members and the principal?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.528305807463171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had a really dynamic teaching staff and most of all, a dynamic principal. Woman principal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were impressed with the other faculty members and the principal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you know. There was one male principal who we had some misunderstandings with him, and I think this was another lesson learned in cultural sensitivity, is that if you have a meeting sometimes in the Philippines, at least then, people would tell you what they thought you wanted to hear rather than what was reality. And so we were disappointed that they hadn't done this or that for the two projects we were working on the summer camp or the library, and we express them freely. And this one gentleman expressed his opinions freely and we had a little friction there. But we'd gone along thinking things were going in one direction and then to fall to find out that certain things had fallen apart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. When you first saw your classroom, what did you think of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9203397860701896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had a really dynamic teaching staff and most of all, a dynamic principal. Woman principal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were impressed with the other faculty members and the principal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you know. There was one male principal who we had some misunderstandings with him, and I think this was another lesson learned in cultural sensitivity, is that if you have a meeting sometimes in the Philippines, at least then, people would tell you what they thought you wanted to hear rather than what was reality. And so we were disappointed that they hadn't done this or that for the two projects we were working on the summer camp or the library, and we express them freely. And this one gentleman expressed his opinions freely and we had a little friction there. But we'd gone along thinking things were going in one direction and then to fall to find out that certain things had fallen apart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. When you first saw your classroom, what did you think of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The classes were large, maybe 35, 40 students. They were so docile. They were so sweet. But they also were so curious and they saw us as almost different creatures, and sometimes they just burst out giggling at things, we didn't know what they were giggling about. And then when we came home at night, we'd sit in our living room and again, we had these open flat windows and the students, many of them would just come and sit and look at us while we while we were in the living room. Well, the result was that we the we as teachers, we're not supposed to be drinking or so we thought. So if we on Friday, if we had, they had very good rum, they had rum and Coke, we would drink it out of the teapot because these students were looking at us the whole time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the students would sit on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.355933095633544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you know. There was one male principal who we had some misunderstandings with him, and I think this was another lesson learned in cultural sensitivity, is that if you have a meeting sometimes in the Philippines, at least then, people would tell you what they thought you wanted to hear rather than what was reality. And so we were disappointed that they hadn't done this or that for the two projects we were working on the summer camp or the library, and we express them freely. And this one gentleman expressed his opinions freely and we had a little friction there. But we'd gone along thinking things were going in one direction and then to fall to find out that certain things had fallen apart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. When you first saw your classroom, what did you think of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The classes were large, maybe 35, 40 students. They were so docile. They were so sweet. But they also were so curious and they saw us as almost different creatures, and sometimes they just burst out giggling at things, we didn't know what they were giggling about. And then when we came home at night, we'd sit in our living room and again, we had these open flat windows and the students, many of them would just come and sit and look at us while we while we were in the living room. Well, the result was that we the we as teachers, we're not supposed to be drinking or so we thought. So if we on Friday, if we had, they had very good rum, they had rum and Coke, we would drink it out of the teapot because these students were looking at us the whole time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the students would sit on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Their had regular bench. We had very basic desks. As I said, it was it was fairly well equipped and I think might have there might have been some USAID projects. I know there were some educational projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what grade levels?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6177034395928267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The classes were large, maybe 35, 40 students. They were so docile. They were so sweet. But they also were so curious and they saw us as almost different creatures, and sometimes they just burst out giggling at things, we didn't know what they were giggling about. And then when we came home at night, we'd sit in our living room and again, we had these open flat windows and the students, many of them would just come and sit and look at us while we while we were in the living room. Well, the result was that we the we as teachers, we're not supposed to be drinking or so we thought. So if we on Friday, if we had, they had very good rum, they had rum and Coke, we would drink it out of the teapot because these students were looking at us the whole time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the students would sit on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Their had regular bench. We had very basic desks. As I said, it was it was fairly well equipped and I think might have there might have been some USAID projects. I know there were some educational projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what grade levels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifth and sixth, I was teaching fifth and sixth. And it was English and science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, the you were the only teacher in the school that was a Peace Corps volunteer? The other teachers were all Filipinos?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.908559377325363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Their had regular bench. We had very basic desks. As I said, it was it was fairly well equipped and I think might have there might have been some USAID projects. I know there were some educational projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what grade levels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifth and sixth, I was teaching fifth and sixth. And it was English and science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, the you were the only teacher in the school that was a Peace Corps volunteer? The other teachers were all Filipinos?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Alrighty. And you had mentioned before we started the interview that there was you initially thought that you were going to train teachers and it ended up being more direct."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2317326414726253, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifth and sixth, I was teaching fifth and sixth. And it was English and science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, the you were the only teacher in the school that was a Peace Corps volunteer? The other teachers were all Filipinos?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Alrighty. And you had mentioned before we started the interview that there was you initially thought that you were going to train teachers and it ended up being more direct."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was dispelled almost immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me a little more about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.5908140460806948, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Alrighty. And you had mentioned before we started the interview that there was you initially thought that you were going to train teachers and it ended up being more direct."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was dispelled almost immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me a little more about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the principal was a very strong leader. She said, I think you will be more effective if you work with that, with our students directly. And that will also relieve us to have one extra teacher that another with more evenly divide the workload."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. So you did, did you do any teacher training or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.878682273422994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was dispelled almost immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me a little more about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the principal was a very strong leader. She said, I think you will be more effective if you work with that, with our students directly. And that will also relieve us to have one extra teacher that another with more evenly divide the workload."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. So you did, did you do any teacher training or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, from the day we arrived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so that went out the window."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.198535859358882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the principal was a very strong leader. She said, I think you will be more effective if you work with that, with our students directly. And that will also relieve us to have one extra teacher that another with more evenly divide the workload."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. So you did, did you do any teacher training or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, from the day we arrived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so that went out the window."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was one of those hidden agendas that we didn't quite perceive to be so until it happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any kind of exam that the students were required to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.55392873262098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, from the day we arrived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so that went out the window."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was one of those hidden agendas that we didn't quite perceive to be so until it happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any kind of exam that the students were required to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a curriculum and there was an exam. And then you could have your own kind of mini. There wasn't there wasn't an overall exam, like a baccalaureate kind of thing. No, there was not it. But you had your you could devise your own curriculum and there were certain basic things that you had to cover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. And so the students were at fifth and sixth grade. They were not trying to achieve the ability to pass an exam to the next level."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9488097029122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was one of those hidden agendas that we didn't quite perceive to be so until it happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any kind of exam that the students were required to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a curriculum and there was an exam. And then you could have your own kind of mini. There wasn't there wasn't an overall exam, like a baccalaureate kind of thing. No, there was not it. But you had your you could devise your own curriculum and there were certain basic things that you had to cover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. And so the students were at fifth and sixth grade. They were not trying to achieve the ability to pass an exam to the next level."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. They were not pressured to go in. No, but they were so good. I mean, they were, they were curious. They were studious. I think, you know, they realized they were lucky to be in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the alternative?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.387566336569111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a curriculum and there was an exam. And then you could have your own kind of mini. There wasn't there wasn't an overall exam, like a baccalaureate kind of thing. No, there was not it. But you had your you could devise your own curriculum and there were certain basic things that you had to cover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. And so the students were at fifth and sixth grade. They were not trying to achieve the ability to pass an exam to the next level."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. They were not pressured to go in. No, but they were so good. I mean, they were, they were curious. They were studious. I think, you know, they realized they were lucky to be in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the alternative?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the farm, on the farm. And then they still did a lot of work. And as I said, they had their little brooms. They were they did the cleaning. You did not have a custodial staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you administered tests and then graded them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.875073707299012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. They were not pressured to go in. No, but they were so good. I mean, they were, they were curious. They were studious. I think, you know, they realized they were lucky to be in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the alternative?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the farm, on the farm. And then they still did a lot of work. And as I said, they had their little brooms. They were they did the cleaning. You did not have a custodial staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you administered tests and then graded them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I would consult with the principal about the level of the rating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the custom there to give homework or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.0186095151839645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I would consult with the principal about the level of the rating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the custom there to give homework or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because many of them did not have electricity. In their homes, I mean, they might have lighting, but not that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was discipline?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.687343905759961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because many of them did not have electricity. In their homes, I mean, they might have lighting, but not that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was discipline?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Excellent, excellent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You never had any problems?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.430382117511067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because many of them did not have electricity. In their homes, I mean, they might have lighting, but not that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was discipline?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Excellent, excellent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You never had any problems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's certainly unusual."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.255980130567853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Excellent, excellent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You never had any problems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's certainly unusual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, that's I think that's why when I came to the States, I couldn't adjust to teaching in an inner city school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a stark contrast between the discipline of the Philippine students and what you found here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.173311256186503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "None."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's certainly unusual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, that's I think that's why when I came to the States, I couldn't adjust to teaching in an inner city school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a stark contrast between the discipline of the Philippine students and what you found here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the appreciation for education. At least the appreciation of being in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me a little bit more about that experiment a little bit. You know how the Philippine students regarded their education versus what you feel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.192568062429448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, that's I think that's why when I came to the States, I couldn't adjust to teaching in an inner city school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a stark contrast between the discipline of the Philippine students and what you found here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the appreciation for education. At least the appreciation of being in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me a little bit more about that experiment a little bit. You know how the Philippine students regarded their education versus what you feel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think one of the other factors is that the elders are very well respected. The teacher is almost God and the principal certainly is. And so the parents did not question the teacher's authority. And package that with the fact that many of the parents had never gone to school, so they were very. They cherish the fact that their children were in school and were not going to do anything to jeopardize that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did students ever complain or give you compliments?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.991742291588275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the appreciation for education. At least the appreciation of being in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me a little bit more about that experiment a little bit. You know how the Philippine students regarded their education versus what you feel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think one of the other factors is that the elders are very well respected. The teacher is almost God and the principal certainly is. And so the parents did not question the teacher's authority. And package that with the fact that many of the parents had never gone to school, so they were very. They cherish the fact that their children were in school and were not going to do anything to jeopardize that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did students ever complain or give you compliments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they complimented me all the time. Yeah. Americans in the ‘60s, Americans were really at the top of their game in the Philippines as far because the Philippines had been an American protectorate. So we had a special place and there had been this group of teachers called the Thomasites earlier in the century that had helped to formulate the education system, the modern and more modern education system in the Philippines. And so we were considered almost the second coming of the Thomasites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was a positive thing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.866348508133672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they complimented me all the time. Yeah. Americans in the ‘60s, Americans were really at the top of their game in the Philippines as far because the Philippines had been an American protectorate. So we had a special place and there had been this group of teachers called the Thomasites earlier in the century that had helped to formulate the education system, the modern and more modern education system in the Philippines. And so we were considered almost the second coming of the Thomasites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was a positive thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was very positive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Thomasites where American teachers, I think they had a religious affiliation, but I don't recall that. But we can look that up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the students have any extracurricular activities or sports?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.962609453481859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was very positive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Thomasites where American teachers, I think they had a religious affiliation, but I don't recall that. But we can look that up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the students have any extracurricular activities or sports?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. I don't know if they did soccer, but they had little they did some baseball, and then when we had our camp, we taught them different games as well. But they did. They had their own little, they didn't have a formalized field, you know, with that was marked out for games. But you could say there was quite a bit of ground. I mean, we used that same school for the camp. There was quite a large, I don't remember how many students in all, but quite a large facility for it for an elementary school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the camp was conceived and executed by you and other faculty?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.180677170535398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Thomasites where American teachers, I think they had a religious affiliation, but I don't recall that. But we can look that up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the students have any extracurricular activities or sports?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. I don't know if they did soccer, but they had little they did some baseball, and then when we had our camp, we taught them different games as well. But they did. They had their own little, they didn't have a formalized field, you know, with that was marked out for games. But you could say there was quite a bit of ground. I mean, we used that same school for the camp. There was quite a large, I don't remember how many students in all, but quite a large facility for it for an elementary school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the camp was conceived and executed by you and other faculty?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was it conceived and executed by four of us in our household, four volunteers and three other volunteers in the nearby town. And the teachers, actually, it was their vacation. They weren't there. They didn't really participate in it. I mean, they mean that was not a negative thing. It was just they had their own schedule in their lives and most of them had family and children of their own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Did you have any particularly memorable students or faculty members that stand out in your in your mind from that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.42297463392822, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. I don't know if they did soccer, but they had little they did some baseball, and then when we had our camp, we taught them different games as well. But they did. They had their own little, they didn't have a formalized field, you know, with that was marked out for games. But you could say there was quite a bit of ground. I mean, we used that same school for the camp. There was quite a large, I don't remember how many students in all, but quite a large facility for it for an elementary school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the camp was conceived and executed by you and other faculty?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was it conceived and executed by four of us in our household, four volunteers and three other volunteers in the nearby town. And the teachers, actually, it was their vacation. They weren't there. They didn't really participate in it. I mean, they mean that was not a negative thing. It was just they had their own schedule in their lives and most of them had family and children of their own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Did you have any particularly memorable students or faculty members that stand out in your in your mind from that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the principal and then another, Mrs. Bahramadia, who was a nearby school teacher and a neighbor. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what made them stand out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.803305148809134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was it conceived and executed by four of us in our household, four volunteers and three other volunteers in the nearby town. And the teachers, actually, it was their vacation. They weren't there. They didn't really participate in it. I mean, they mean that was not a negative thing. It was just they had their own schedule in their lives and most of them had family and children of their own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Did you have any particularly memorable students or faculty members that stand out in your in your mind from that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the principal and then another, Mrs. Bahramadia, who was a nearby school teacher and a neighbor. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what made them stand out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They always seem to be concerned about our welfare. They would tell us things that they thought we needed to know. They were more open, more frank than some of the others. Just who felt that they would they would be impolite for them to tell us that you need to do this. They gave us guidance. Everybody was very welcoming. That was the least welcoming was the landlord who had probably been cajoled into renting to us for the first place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So overall, about your teaching experience in the Philippines, what did you like the most about it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.337005720899038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the principal and then another, Mrs. Bahramadia, who was a nearby school teacher and a neighbor. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what made them stand out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They always seem to be concerned about our welfare. They would tell us things that they thought we needed to know. They were more open, more frank than some of the others. Just who felt that they would they would be impolite for them to tell us that you need to do this. They gave us guidance. Everybody was very welcoming. That was the least welcoming was the landlord who had probably been cajoled into renting to us for the first place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So overall, about your teaching experience in the Philippines, what did you like the most about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like the enthusiasm of the students. Their eagerness to learn. And they've disciplined. And they were they were quiet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything that you could think of that you liked least about your job?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.041117467665597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They always seem to be concerned about our welfare. They would tell us things that they thought we needed to know. They were more open, more frank than some of the others. Just who felt that they would they would be impolite for them to tell us that you need to do this. They gave us guidance. Everybody was very welcoming. That was the least welcoming was the landlord who had probably been cajoled into renting to us for the first place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So overall, about your teaching experience in the Philippines, what did you like the most about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like the enthusiasm of the students. Their eagerness to learn. And they've disciplined. And they were they were quiet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything that you could think of that you liked least about your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how would you describe your relationship with the people of the Philippines as well as your work counterparts?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.934574964072883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like the enthusiasm of the students. Their eagerness to learn. And they've disciplined. And they were they were quiet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything that you could think of that you liked least about your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how would you describe your relationship with the people of the Philippines as well as your work counterparts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was very positive and I think I learned a lot from the Philippines and the Philippines culture because they were so caring, so patient, and I think that that exposure has really helped me throughout my adult life and my career in learning how to listen and not jump in immediately with your own opinion, thinking that everything that's American is the best and that we’re always right. And they had a gentle way of reminding you that that wasn't so at all times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How is the Philippine cooking?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.816194404525426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how would you describe your relationship with the people of the Philippines as well as your work counterparts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was very positive and I think I learned a lot from the Philippines and the Philippines culture because they were so caring, so patient, and I think that that exposure has really helped me throughout my adult life and my career in learning how to listen and not jump in immediately with your own opinion, thinking that everything that's American is the best and that we’re always right. And they had a gentle way of reminding you that that wasn't so at all times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How is the Philippine cooking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, that is not my favorite part. They had certain. I liked the lumpia, which is kind of a spring roll and I liked the chicken adobo OK. The first thing I remember getting off the plane was the smell of garlic. I mean, the real smell of garlic. When I came back to the Philippines 15 years later in the Foreign Service, the first thing I remember is the smell of garlic. But there was a lot of Spanish influence in the food so that that roasted pig and some of that. But there were other things. You know, there's balut, which is a special egg that's been preserved underground. And then there's another egg dish that’s cooked when the chick is about to be hatched. Those those were my least favorite dishes and the actually dishes that I mostly avoided."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said your health was good physically?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.832914135151473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except, almost universally as a group. The women gained weight and the men lost weight. I guess, and there were certain things that we craved, for example, our cook cooked us breakfast every morning, but she cooked duck eggs and she wanted to make sure they were ready for us. So she cooked them maybe an hour before we were ready to eat them. So certain things were not as pleasant as could be, but we craved peanut butter and jelly and the only jelly we could find was guava jelly. So you couldn't get that taste satisfaction. So we take the rice, which was abundantly available, and then put sugar and put milk on it. Evaporated milk. So that didn't help our waistlines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure. Tell me something about your correspondence with your mother while you're in the Philippines."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, I didn't realize how much I had written to my mother. And I must have a hundred letters between, that she and I, between the two of us that we wrote. And I started writing her from the time I got to San Francisco until the last day that I was in the in the Philippines. It was very extensive and this also allowed her to get involved in helping me with the library and allowed her to relay to my family and friends what I was doing. So that was kind of my lifeline, I think, to being back home. And sometimes she would in the letter, she'd say, you sounded a little homesick in the last letter. It's time to perk up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she was able to give you emotional support."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though there was a little bit of delay in that process."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.147682372390523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, I didn't realize how much I had written to my mother. And I must have a hundred letters between, that she and I, between the two of us that we wrote. And I started writing her from the time I got to San Francisco until the last day that I was in the in the Philippines. It was very extensive and this also allowed her to get involved in helping me with the library and allowed her to relay to my family and friends what I was doing. So that was kind of my lifeline, I think, to being back home. And sometimes she would in the letter, she'd say, you sounded a little homesick in the last letter. It's time to perk up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she was able to give you emotional support."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though there was a little bit of delay in that process."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I also realized there was a shortage of writing paper. But we devised ways to use that thin air grams and write on the back of it, the side of it. But writing paper was an issue. Also, as I recall, looking back through the papers, one of the biggest expenses was, was postage back to the States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. OK, during the Christmas holidays, what kinds of things did you do and why?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.6085359693228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though there was a little bit of delay in that process."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I also realized there was a shortage of writing paper. But we devised ways to use that thin air grams and write on the back of it, the side of it. But writing paper was an issue. Also, as I recall, looking back through the papers, one of the biggest expenses was, was postage back to the States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. OK, during the Christmas holidays, what kinds of things did you do and why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We usually got together as a few a few households might get together. And one Christmas I remember spending with a Filipino family and they were so nice and so gracious. They knew that we like turkey, that we as Americans liked it. So they got this turkey that was not a butterball and fried it. And it was terrible. It wasn't one of those. But, you know, now we fry turkey in this big vat, but then they just fried it the way you would fried chicken it. I almost cried. I was so homesick that day. We had our moments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Indeed. Did you go to the movies while you're there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00040:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 36.40423372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, many times, many times. And, you know, we were treated as if we were royalty. I mean, the mayors, the town leaders. And even in the even in Manila, we often be invited to the homes of quite well-off Filipinos. And once I had met a friend who took me up in his plane. Kind of frightened me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It gave you a different perspective from, um, in the in the second year of your service, was it the changes that or was it just another year of service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the change, the change was mainly in the household because the two volunteers moved to another area and the one who moved to the high school meant that I was really alone in the town. I mean, I'd always been the lone teacher in the town, but I was alone. And had moved just a little bit on the outskirts of the town. But I was the volunteer there rather than, you know, before they always, you know, considered us four even though I was the only one actually working here. But they treated us as a group of four. And sometimes they'd come and get us and take us out to somebody's farm or some excursion. They were very, very kind to us. So that that was the difference. And when I changed households, houses rather, I had to start all over again in terms of getting some of the furniture together and redoing this kind of shell of a place that I'd rented."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were coming to the end of your service, how did you feel about what you'd accomplished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I felt I had learned so much, and then one of the last things I did during that time was the summer before I left, I worked at Asia Foundation sorting books in Manila. And so I had the chance to have this wonderful almost two month period of living in Manila and working in with Asia Foundation and staying in this boarding house. Another Peace Corps volunteer and I worked on this project. And so we had kind of it was kind of a glamorous into a more simpler living than we did in the in the in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you ever have any thoughts of extending your service?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.096383847377162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Started with training with a crew member in the science training things, and then procedure validations, pulling together the time line. These are all the things that happened the year prior, the procedures, getting to know the science, getting to know the crew member, and then working as a back-up operations lead on some of the other increments. I've done some of that work. Then head over to Russia to head up the operations team that was in place for Increment Seven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was your training period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started with David Wolf, because he was originally the Increment Seven crew member, or was supposed to be. He started training a year ago in January as the Increment Six back-up. So he started then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you almost like his shadow? Did you go and do everything that he was doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the U.S. portion of his training, yes. The way it worked is, you were supposed to follow them when they were here in the U.S., and then you spent some time in Russia with them during the final portion of their Star City training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you learn by being so close?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.218204274863513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started with David Wolf, because he was originally the Increment Seven crew member, or was supposed to be. He started training a year ago in January as the Increment Six back-up. So he started then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you almost like his shadow? Did you go and do everything that he was doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the U.S. portion of his training, yes. The way it worked is, you were supposed to follow them when they were here in the U.S., and then you spent some time in Russia with them during the final portion of their Star City training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you learn by being so close?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You figure out how tightly wound they are, how they go about solving problems, how sticky they are about what the procedures need to say, what kind of answers they're looking for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess this helps you communicate with them when you're on the ground and they're in the air."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.464671416515014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the U.S. portion of his training, yes. The way it worked is, you were supposed to follow them when they were here in the U.S., and then you spent some time in Russia with them during the final portion of their Star City training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you learn by being so close?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You figure out how tightly wound they are, how they go about solving problems, how sticky they are about what the procedures need to say, what kind of answers they're looking for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess this helps you communicate with them when you're on the ground and they're in the air."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, hopefully. Hopefully you can hear things in their voice you might not otherwise be aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at what point did you have your astronaut switch?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.738523796127792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You figure out how tightly wound they are, how they go about solving problems, how sticky they are about what the procedures need to say, what kind of answers they're looking for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess this helps you communicate with them when you're on the ground and they're in the air."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, hopefully. Hopefully you can hear things in their voice you might not otherwise be aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at what point did you have your astronaut switch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was August of last year when we switched."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it like starting over, or were you able at least to take some of your experiences and apply them with Andy Thomas?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.15391532903088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, hopefully. Hopefully you can hear things in their voice you might not otherwise be aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at what point did you have your astronaut switch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was August of last year when we switched."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it like starting over, or were you able at least to take some of your experiences and apply them with Andy Thomas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just different. It wasn't really a big deal. Didn't need to be anyway. They're very different people, but the work's pretty technical, so it doesn't make it a whole lot of difference. There was some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was just one more example of being flexible?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.72657258781209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was August of last year when we switched."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it like starting over, or were you able at least to take some of your experiences and apply them with Andy Thomas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just different. It wasn't really a big deal. Didn't need to be anyway. They're very different people, but the work's pretty technical, so it doesn't make it a whole lot of difference. There was some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was just one more example of being flexible?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a key word in what you did during your time as an ops lead?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.473969542013432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just different. It wasn't really a big deal. Didn't need to be anyway. They're very different people, but the work's pretty technical, so it doesn't make it a whole lot of difference. There was some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was just one more example of being flexible?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a key word in what you did during your time as an ops lead?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, the whole program had a real short schedule, everything was pretty intense. When I came in, I was kind of surprised how tense people were, and just needed to relax a little bit. Well, that's why I always said, \"Everything's going to be fine. Just relax. Nobody's going to get killed. It won't really matter.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They look for you for reassurance as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.415521713348255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a key word in what you did during your time as an ops lead?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, the whole program had a real short schedule, everything was pretty intense. When I came in, I was kind of surprised how tense people were, and just needed to relax a little bit. Well, that's why I always said, \"Everything's going to be fine. Just relax. Nobody's going to get killed. It won't really matter.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They look for you for reassurance as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in anything, you have to figure out what job you need to play, and if that's just being a speed brake, that's okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get involved in this position?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.017246348164726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, the whole program had a real short schedule, everything was pretty intense. When I came in, I was kind of surprised how tense people were, and just needed to relax a little bit. Well, that's why I always said, \"Everything's going to be fine. Just relax. Nobody's going to get killed. It won't really matter.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They look for you for reassurance as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in anything, you have to figure out what job you need to play, and if that's just being a speed brake, that's okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get involved in this position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been working in ISS [International Space Station], the station program office, and I got a little burned out with that because we weren't doing anything with real hardware stuff. I went over to be Captain Culbertson's technical assistant. I had known him from my previous life in the Air Force. I was in his office just attending meetings, and they came in and were having problems getting people to go to Russia for five or six months doing that, and they kept coming in and saying this over and over again, and one day after one of those meetings, I just said, \"Well, you know, I could go do it.\" And there I was. He said, \"Hold that thought.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] And you did for the next year."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.796940386849695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in anything, you have to figure out what job you need to play, and if that's just being a speed brake, that's okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get involved in this position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been working in ISS [International Space Station], the station program office, and I got a little burned out with that because we weren't doing anything with real hardware stuff. I went over to be Captain Culbertson's technical assistant. I had known him from my previous life in the Air Force. I was in his office just attending meetings, and they came in and were having problems getting people to go to Russia for five or six months doing that, and they kept coming in and saying this over and over again, and one day after one of those meetings, I just said, \"Well, you know, I could go do it.\" And there I was. He said, \"Hold that thought.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] And you did for the next year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was actually like two years ago, probably by the time--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get involved right away after you made that--"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.77437820761077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been working in ISS [International Space Station], the station program office, and I got a little burned out with that because we weren't doing anything with real hardware stuff. I went over to be Captain Culbertson's technical assistant. I had known him from my previous life in the Air Force. I was in his office just attending meetings, and they came in and were having problems getting people to go to Russia for five or six months doing that, and they kept coming in and saying this over and over again, and one day after one of those meetings, I just said, \"Well, you know, I could go do it.\" And there I was. He said, \"Hold that thought.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] And you did for the next year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was actually like two years ago, probably by the time--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get involved right away after you made that--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Frank wasn't going to let you change your mind."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.971531341789746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was actually like two years ago, probably by the time--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get involved right away after you made that--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Frank wasn't going to let you change your mind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. At the time I wasn't even sure I had used my outside voice to say that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Frank heard you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 24.412812601988605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Frank wasn't going to let you change your mind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. At the time I wasn't even sure I had used my outside voice to say that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Frank heard you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, he did. He doesn't miss stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what happened from there? You volunteered for this assignment and then your activities started right away here, or were you sent right away to Russia?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.347569557765116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. At the time I wasn't even sure I had used my outside voice to say that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Frank heard you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, he did. He doesn't miss stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what happened from there? You volunteered for this assignment and then your activities started right away here, or were you sent right away to Russia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It started here. I think at the time, that was right before Colonel [John] Blaha launched. So there was plenty of time. I think I had just about more time, because of the way the time line worked out, more time than anybody else to get ready pretty much. It was all evolving pretty fast, but pretty much right away started following things, and then we did training like in January, the first Increment Six backup training, and then in March I went over with Tony Sang for Increment Four to work over there for about six weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your first visit to Russia?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.497299508627904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, he did. He doesn't miss stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what happened from there? You volunteered for this assignment and then your activities started right away here, or were you sent right away to Russia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It started here. I think at the time, that was right before Colonel [John] Blaha launched. So there was plenty of time. I think I had just about more time, because of the way the time line worked out, more time than anybody else to get ready pretty much. It was all evolving pretty fast, but pretty much right away started following things, and then we did training like in January, the first Increment Six backup training, and then in March I went over with Tony Sang for Increment Four to work over there for about six weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your first visit to Russia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I had gone quite a bit as part of my station work. I had gone several times, and the last time I went, I said I would never go again. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Never say never."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.88588834291989, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It started here. I think at the time, that was right before Colonel [John] Blaha launched. So there was plenty of time. I think I had just about more time, because of the way the time line worked out, more time than anybody else to get ready pretty much. It was all evolving pretty fast, but pretty much right away started following things, and then we did training like in January, the first Increment Six backup training, and then in March I went over with Tony Sang for Increment Four to work over there for about six weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your first visit to Russia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I had gone quite a bit as part of my station work. I had gone several times, and the last time I went, I said I would never go again. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Never say never."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm not going to say that this time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least you had your first impressions of Russia behind you and you knew what to expect. Was it different being part of ISS compared to being part of Shuttle-Mir?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 25.428764825466544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I had gone quite a bit as part of my station work. I had gone several times, and the last time I went, I said I would never go again. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Never say never."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm not going to say that this time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least you had your first impressions of Russia behind you and you knew what to expect. Was it different being part of ISS compared to being part of Shuttle-Mir?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was because, when you're having to do operations, you don't have as much time for posturing or any of that stuff; you just have to do something. When you're doing something like ISS, there's plenty of time, and everybody knows it, and they kind of pull each other's chain quite a bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your average day like when you were the ops lead? Can you give us a couple of days, or just something so you can explain to us what your responsibilities were when you were in Russia?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.582936786262069, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, really. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] You've let us into a whole new insight of how this will happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. He calls every morning, no matter where he is, whether he's on vacation or what. He was getting better towards the end. And then Jim [VanLaak] calls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least there's some consistency in your job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then maybe Tim Baum calls, and then we're having the morning meeting where we're supposed to tell everybody that's happened, although by that time almost everybody knows. Then the afternoon shift comes in right before then, so we do like one big handover with everybody. Then you go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like at least everybody that was working the team communicated."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.981040873624521, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. He calls every morning, no matter where he is, whether he's on vacation or what. He was getting better towards the end. And then Jim [VanLaak] calls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least there's some consistency in your job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then maybe Tim Baum calls, and then we're having the morning meeting where we're supposed to tell everybody that's happened, although by that time almost everybody knows. Then the afternoon shift comes in right before then, so we do like one big handover with everybody. Then you go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like at least everybody that was working the team communicated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, pretty much. Very dysfunctional occasionally, but that's okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there so much going on sometimes it was hard to communicate everything? Or was it almost opposite where maybe not enough was going on communicate?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.312267637360579, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then maybe Tim Baum calls, and then we're having the morning meeting where we're supposed to tell everybody that's happened, although by that time almost everybody knows. Then the afternoon shift comes in right before then, so we do like one big handover with everybody. Then you go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like at least everybody that was working the team communicated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, pretty much. Very dysfunctional occasionally, but that's okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there so much going on sometimes it was hard to communicate everything? Or was it almost opposite where maybe not enough was going on communicate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think because of the past problems they had, our increment was pretty easy. I mean, we didn't have any major catastrophes. But because of the things that happened on the previous increments, and because the press then finds out things so quickly, everybody in the management chain requires instantaneous knowledge of what has happened to the current configuration of things, and everyone has to know more than anybody else. And they do not want to find out by watching CNN; they want to have heard it from you. So if anything of any potential significance happened, you wake them up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that all fell on your shoulders being the ops leader."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6802973748450873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, pretty much. Very dysfunctional occasionally, but that's okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there so much going on sometimes it was hard to communicate everything? Or was it almost opposite where maybe not enough was going on communicate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think because of the past problems they had, our increment was pretty easy. I mean, we didn't have any major catastrophes. But because of the things that happened on the previous increments, and because the press then finds out things so quickly, everybody in the management chain requires instantaneous knowledge of what has happened to the current configuration of things, and everyone has to know more than anybody else. And they do not want to find out by watching CNN; they want to have heard it from you. So if anything of any potential significance happened, you wake them up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that all fell on your shoulders being the ops leader."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's not that bad now. Just another additional duty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the responsibility. Speaking of communication, I guess Andy Thomas was glad to talk with you on the ground."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0892193053834305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think because of the past problems they had, our increment was pretty easy. I mean, we didn't have any major catastrophes. But because of the things that happened on the previous increments, and because the press then finds out things so quickly, everybody in the management chain requires instantaneous knowledge of what has happened to the current configuration of things, and everyone has to know more than anybody else. And they do not want to find out by watching CNN; they want to have heard it from you. So if anything of any potential significance happened, you wake them up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that all fell on your shoulders being the ops leader."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's not that bad now. Just another additional duty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the responsibility. Speaking of communication, I guess Andy Thomas was glad to talk with you on the ground."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure after working with him that long you could tell if he was glad to hear a voice from Earth."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.543577005981589, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's not that bad now. Just another additional duty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the responsibility. Speaking of communication, I guess Andy Thomas was glad to talk with you on the ground."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure after working with him that long you could tell if he was glad to hear a voice from Earth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he was pretty isolated up there, so I tried to keep it relatively light, entertaining, and informative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your time in Russia, I'm sure, was full with this job. Did you have time to do anything else, anything that you wanted to do while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.048418895535099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure after working with him that long you could tell if he was glad to hear a voice from Earth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he was pretty isolated up there, so I tried to keep it relatively light, entertaining, and informative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your time in Russia, I'm sure, was full with this job. Did you have time to do anything else, anything that you wanted to do while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took my family over with me, and when we could, we'd go out and do other things. I kind of filled most of the squares and all the travels over there before seeing all these things, but I got to see them again taking the kids and go check them out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were your children?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.609354328372333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he was pretty isolated up there, so I tried to keep it relatively light, entertaining, and informative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your time in Russia, I'm sure, was full with this job. Did you have time to do anything else, anything that you wanted to do while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took my family over with me, and when we could, we'd go out and do other things. I kind of filled most of the squares and all the travels over there before seeing all these things, but I got to see them again taking the kids and go check them out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were your children?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eleven, nine, and four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they adjust to being there? Did they enjoy it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.232615920413703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took my family over with me, and when we could, we'd go out and do other things. I kind of filled most of the squares and all the travels over there before seeing all these things, but I got to see them again taking the kids and go check them out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were your children?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eleven, nine, and four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they adjust to being there? Did they enjoy it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Overall, yes, I think so. They'll appreciate it a lot more later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were there prior to the wintertime."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.925128800459669, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eleven, nine, and four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they adjust to being there? Did they enjoy it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Overall, yes, I think so. They'll appreciate it a lot more later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were there prior to the wintertime."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we got there in January."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's real wintertime then."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.694587556066299, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Overall, yes, I think so. They'll appreciate it a lot more later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were there prior to the wintertime."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we got there in January."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's real wintertime then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Real winter, real cold. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did they enjoy being there? Did they enjoy seeing the sights?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.105097284518109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we got there in January."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's real wintertime then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Real winter, real cold. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did they enjoy being there? Did they enjoy seeing the sights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it started out, they're pretty much Southern kids, so they hadn't been around snow. So that was pretty good. Took them down to Red Square almost immediately, but they don't have the same appreciation for being in Red Square. They just don't get it at all. But we did go down there, and I took them from Red Square over to across the street from the Bolshoi, and it was snowing, and there was a statue of Karl Marx over here, and I turned around, and my son was making a snow angel on the sidewalk by Karl Marx. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's nice to have children's expressions no matter where they are. [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.561219205020121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Real winter, real cold. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did they enjoy being there? Did they enjoy seeing the sights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it started out, they're pretty much Southern kids, so they hadn't been around snow. So that was pretty good. Took them down to Red Square almost immediately, but they don't have the same appreciation for being in Red Square. They just don't get it at all. But we did go down there, and I took them from Red Square over to across the street from the Bolshoi, and it was snowing, and there was a statue of Karl Marx over here, and I turned around, and my son was making a snow angel on the sidewalk by Karl Marx. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's nice to have children's expressions no matter where they are. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's not something I would have thought of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm glad he felt free to do what he wanted to."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.068021338911246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it started out, they're pretty much Southern kids, so they hadn't been around snow. So that was pretty good. Took them down to Red Square almost immediately, but they don't have the same appreciation for being in Red Square. They just don't get it at all. But we did go down there, and I took them from Red Square over to across the street from the Bolshoi, and it was snowing, and there was a statue of Karl Marx over here, and I turned around, and my son was making a snow angel on the sidewalk by Karl Marx. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's nice to have children's expressions no matter where they are. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's not something I would have thought of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm glad he felt free to do what he wanted to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were your dealings with the Russians? You were the main focus, I guess, on this increment, so they came to you and you went to them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.520023709901384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's not something I would have thought of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm glad he felt free to do what he wanted to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were your dealings with the Russians? You were the main focus, I guess, on this increment, so they came to you and you went to them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had felt pretty frustrated with them from previous increments. I thought we weren't really getting our money's worth, and I kind of wanted to make it a point that we were going to get our money's worth this time. I also felt like we didn't get treated equitably, shall we say, and I wasn't going to let that happen. I expected to get treated as a customer and as a future partner on the ISS. We had some degrees of success, some days more than others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you deal with one person in particular, or did you have a whole array of Russian officials?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9111374554459823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were your dealings with the Russians? You were the main focus, I guess, on this increment, so they came to you and you went to them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had felt pretty frustrated with them from previous increments. I thought we weren't really getting our money's worth, and I kind of wanted to make it a point that we were going to get our money's worth this time. I also felt like we didn't get treated equitably, shall we say, and I wasn't going to let that happen. I expected to get treated as a customer and as a future partner on the ISS. We had some degrees of success, some days more than others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you deal with one person in particular, or did you have a whole array of Russian officials?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly the shift flight directors, and occasionally Victor Blagov. It depends on what you're working, who is the most effective place to go for what you're trying to take of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess your back-up training the times that you were there with Tony really served you well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.345708283828869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had felt pretty frustrated with them from previous increments. I thought we weren't really getting our money's worth, and I kind of wanted to make it a point that we were going to get our money's worth this time. I also felt like we didn't get treated equitably, shall we say, and I wasn't going to let that happen. I expected to get treated as a customer and as a future partner on the ISS. We had some degrees of success, some days more than others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you deal with one person in particular, or did you have a whole array of Russian officials?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly the shift flight directors, and occasionally Victor Blagov. It depends on what you're working, who is the most effective place to go for what you're trying to take of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess your back-up training the times that you were there with Tony really served you well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was good. I thought that was excellent. That was an excellent way to train people for following increments. I don't know who thought of that, but that was great. It was really a good idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure no day was dull, but at least you had a few surprises that were already out of the way, because you could see how it worked."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.606342537587632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly the shift flight directors, and occasionally Victor Blagov. It depends on what you're working, who is the most effective place to go for what you're trying to take of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess your back-up training the times that you were there with Tony really served you well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was good. I thought that was excellent. That was an excellent way to train people for following increments. I don't know who thought of that, but that was great. It was really a good idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure no day was dull, but at least you had a few surprises that were already out of the way, because you could see how it worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Just getting there and knowing in advance, we sit here, this is how we talk, this is--well, except I went over on Increment Four when Jerry wasn't talking to anybody. [Laughter] I hadn't actually seen anybody talk to him. You know who the shift flight directors are, you know where the room is, and all that. That was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a way to train somebody for this position? I mean, if there was another increment, say, Increment Ten, and you were put in charge of getting the ops leads ready, what would you tell them that the needed to know to work this job and do it successfully?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7848250417640357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was good. I thought that was excellent. That was an excellent way to train people for following increments. I don't know who thought of that, but that was great. It was really a good idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure no day was dull, but at least you had a few surprises that were already out of the way, because you could see how it worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Just getting there and knowing in advance, we sit here, this is how we talk, this is--well, except I went over on Increment Four when Jerry wasn't talking to anybody. [Laughter] I hadn't actually seen anybody talk to him. You know who the shift flight directors are, you know where the room is, and all that. That was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a way to train somebody for this position? I mean, if there was another increment, say, Increment Ten, and you were put in charge of getting the ops leads ready, what would you tell them that the needed to know to work this job and do it successfully?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They ought to spend a lot more time getting Russian language training. You don't need it on the job very much, but you have a life outside, and it's almost impossible to operate outside without speaking the language. It's just easier if you can get around. It helps to know what the flight director's really saying, because you get the filtered translated version, and you're not sure if somebody's adding some political correctness, or if he said, \"Well, tell this dummy this,\" which I would like to know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that an adjustment, itself working with translators?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9831389352933728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Just getting there and knowing in advance, we sit here, this is how we talk, this is--well, except I went over on Increment Four when Jerry wasn't talking to anybody. [Laughter] I hadn't actually seen anybody talk to him. You know who the shift flight directors are, you know where the room is, and all that. That was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a way to train somebody for this position? I mean, if there was another increment, say, Increment Ten, and you were put in charge of getting the ops leads ready, what would you tell them that the needed to know to work this job and do it successfully?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They ought to spend a lot more time getting Russian language training. You don't need it on the job very much, but you have a life outside, and it's almost impossible to operate outside without speaking the language. It's just easier if you can get around. It helps to know what the flight director's really saying, because you get the filtered translated version, and you're not sure if somebody's adding some political correctness, or if he said, \"Well, tell this dummy this,\" which I would like to know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that an adjustment, itself working with translators?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had done it before, but you forget--if you're going to make some long statement and you're really mad, and you have to pause every few words, it's really hard to maintain your train of thought, especially if you're trying to make a point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Loses that impact."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.203487705881525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They ought to spend a lot more time getting Russian language training. You don't need it on the job very much, but you have a life outside, and it's almost impossible to operate outside without speaking the language. It's just easier if you can get around. It helps to know what the flight director's really saying, because you get the filtered translated version, and you're not sure if somebody's adding some political correctness, or if he said, \"Well, tell this dummy this,\" which I would like to know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that an adjustment, itself working with translators?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had done it before, but you forget--if you're going to make some long statement and you're really mad, and you have to pause every few words, it's really hard to maintain your train of thought, especially if you're trying to make a point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Loses that impact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you forget where the heck you were going. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That may be some training for future work."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4483196732016945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had done it before, but you forget--if you're going to make some long statement and you're really mad, and you have to pause every few words, it's really hard to maintain your train of thought, especially if you're trying to make a point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Loses that impact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you forget where the heck you were going. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That may be some training for future work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You kind of wind -up thinking -I had a point to make but], man, I was mad when I started, but I cannot remember where I was going with it. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That might be a great topic for a psychologist to work on that one. [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7203551924463274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you forget where the heck you were going. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That may be some training for future work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You kind of wind -up thinking -I had a point to make but], man, I was mad when I started, but I cannot remember where I was going with it. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That might be a great topic for a psychologist to work on that one. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You wonder if the other guy's sitting there just saying, \"I don't know what this guy's talking about.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the poor translator. They have to sit there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.022616880495919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You kind of wind -up thinking -I had a point to make but], man, I was mad when I started, but I cannot remember where I was going with it. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That might be a great topic for a psychologist to work on that one. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You wonder if the other guy's sitting there just saying, \"I don't know what this guy's talking about.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the poor translator. They have to sit there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish they would tell you, \"You're looking like an idiot.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're just doing their job."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.358463200551021, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You wonder if the other guy's sitting there just saying, \"I don't know what this guy's talking about.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the poor translator. They have to sit there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish they would tell you, \"You're looking like an idiot.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're just doing their job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, usually, unfortunately, just being a translator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier that you had military training. Was that a little awkward for you at first to work with the folks that you had been trained at some point in time they were your enemy?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7316257783900233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish they would tell you, \"You're looking like an idiot.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're just doing their job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, usually, unfortunately, just being a translator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier that you had military training. Was that a little awkward for you at first to work with the folks that you had been trained at some point in time they were your enemy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had pretty much gotten over that. Pretty much. Early on I had a kind of hard time with them. I didn't care for them much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that from the ISS?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.146250864877803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, usually, unfortunately, just being a translator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier that you had military training. Was that a little awkward for you at first to work with the folks that you had been trained at some point in time they were your enemy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had pretty much gotten over that. Pretty much. Early on I had a kind of hard time with them. I didn't care for them much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that from the ISS?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But once you get to know them, it's not so bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a time during all this period that you were working, kind of a low time that maybe you wished that you hadn't told Frank, \"I can do this\"?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.38472318319756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had pretty much gotten over that. Pretty much. Early on I had a kind of hard time with them. I didn't care for them much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that from the ISS?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But once you get to know them, it's not so bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a time during all this period that you were working, kind of a low time that maybe you wished that you hadn't told Frank, \"I can do this\"?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in March or in April, when the experiments were just really going south. The Russians were being very difficult, and Andy wasn't getting his e-mail, and I was burned out and tired. I think somewhere in there I offered to quit, too, because I just felt like nobody back here was listening. It was worse than just not listening; I felt like I was getting fought along the way, and I just told Jeff Cardenas, \"Go find somebody else. I've had it.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it resolved for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6496924257750667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But once you get to know them, it's not so bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a time during all this period that you were working, kind of a low time that maybe you wished that you hadn't told Frank, \"I can do this\"?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in March or in April, when the experiments were just really going south. The Russians were being very difficult, and Andy wasn't getting his e-mail, and I was burned out and tired. I think somewhere in there I offered to quit, too, because I just felt like nobody back here was listening. It was worse than just not listening; I felt like I was getting fought along the way, and I just told Jeff Cardenas, \"Go find somebody else. I've had it.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it resolved for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, part way through that I thought, \"I cannot leave, because that would really screw over Andy, so I can't leave.\" If they could find another lead, somebody else could take all the flak. So I'd really had it then. But things worked out. And I was right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That period got over and something else happened."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9441026953056295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in March or in April, when the experiments were just really going south. The Russians were being very difficult, and Andy wasn't getting his e-mail, and I was burned out and tired. I think somewhere in there I offered to quit, too, because I just felt like nobody back here was listening. It was worse than just not listening; I felt like I was getting fought along the way, and I just told Jeff Cardenas, \"Go find somebody else. I've had it.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it resolved for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, part way through that I thought, \"I cannot leave, because that would really screw over Andy, so I can't leave.\" If they could find another lead, somebody else could take all the flak. So I'd really had it then. But things worked out. And I was right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That period got over and something else happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we found out what was wrong with the experiment, found out they didn't know what they were talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a challenge itself to coordinate all the different disciplines that were now under your supervision? You had all these different people working different projects."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.271225217006255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, part way through that I thought, \"I cannot leave, because that would really screw over Andy, so I can't leave.\" If they could find another lead, somebody else could take all the flak. So I'd really had it then. But things worked out. And I was right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That period got over and something else happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we found out what was wrong with the experiment, found out they didn't know what they were talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a challenge itself to coordinate all the different disciplines that were now under your supervision? You had all these different people working different projects."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't too bad, really, because the science people we had were overall pretty good. But there's a lot of things. People don't want to be confrontational, or they are burned out from working all the increments all along, so you end up with all these open questions, or some stupid idea comes down the pipeline that gets all the way to you, and you're the one that has to say, \"No,\" or you're the point at which things get resolved, and after a while you think, \"Couldn't somebody else apply a neuron to this somewhere along the way before I have to do this?\" Then you've got this in-fighting going on over there, and you just want to choke the--my God. I'm sure it's just fatigue over there, partly, but it's resolving all the different disciplines. The technical side of the job is not that hard; it's dealing with all the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody seems to have their own level of responsibility and I guess they feel like it's the priority."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6346946855625055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we found out what was wrong with the experiment, found out they didn't know what they were talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a challenge itself to coordinate all the different disciplines that were now under your supervision? You had all these different people working different projects."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't too bad, really, because the science people we had were overall pretty good. But there's a lot of things. People don't want to be confrontational, or they are burned out from working all the increments all along, so you end up with all these open questions, or some stupid idea comes down the pipeline that gets all the way to you, and you're the one that has to say, \"No,\" or you're the point at which things get resolved, and after a while you think, \"Couldn't somebody else apply a neuron to this somewhere along the way before I have to do this?\" Then you've got this in-fighting going on over there, and you just want to choke the--my God. I'm sure it's just fatigue over there, partly, but it's resolving all the different disciplines. The technical side of the job is not that hard; it's dealing with all the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody seems to have their own level of responsibility and I guess they feel like it's the priority."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, yes. Yes. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a nice way of saying it? [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.038549650625006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't too bad, really, because the science people we had were overall pretty good. But there's a lot of things. People don't want to be confrontational, or they are burned out from working all the increments all along, so you end up with all these open questions, or some stupid idea comes down the pipeline that gets all the way to you, and you're the one that has to say, \"No,\" or you're the point at which things get resolved, and after a while you think, \"Couldn't somebody else apply a neuron to this somewhere along the way before I have to do this?\" Then you've got this in-fighting going on over there, and you just want to choke the--my God. I'm sure it's just fatigue over there, partly, but it's resolving all the different disciplines. The technical side of the job is not that hard; it's dealing with all the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody seems to have their own level of responsibility and I guess they feel like it's the priority."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, yes. Yes. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a nice way of saying it? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The science guys think there shouldn't be any--what else could possibly have priority? Then depending on what day it is, Frank or somebody else might think, \"Why are you working on science? The first thing you're supposed to be doing is this.\" \"Oh.\" That's the way it has to work. Everybody pushes as hard as they can for their little sliver of the world. Somebody has to be the umpire. It's fun being the bad cop for a while, but after a while you don't think anybody really cares; they just want somebody to be the bad guy and handle it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it easier to know that you knew there was a set amount of time you were going to be there, that it was only four months?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7512958649691424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The science guys think there shouldn't be any--what else could possibly have priority? Then depending on what day it is, Frank or somebody else might think, \"Why are you working on science? The first thing you're supposed to be doing is this.\" \"Oh.\" That's the way it has to work. Everybody pushes as hard as they can for their little sliver of the world. Somebody has to be the umpire. It's fun being the bad cop for a while, but after a while you don't think anybody really cares; they just want somebody to be the bad guy and handle it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it easier to know that you knew there was a set amount of time you were going to be there, that it was only four months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Five months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I don't know. It was good that there was a horizon out there. Yes, somebody would have gotten hurt if I had to stay on. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Maybe it's good you had the last increment."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.16810651663238, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Five months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I don't know. It was good that there was a horizon out there. Yes, somebody would have gotten hurt if I had to stay on. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Maybe it's good you had the last increment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel from the Russians any hesitation from them that before you, there was another ops lead, and before that person there was another ops lead? Did they treat you the same as they did the one before? Or do you feel like there was some time in there that they had to get to know you before they treated you with respect?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.631229462924867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I don't know. It was good that there was a horizon out there. Yes, somebody would have gotten hurt if I had to stay on. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Maybe it's good you had the last increment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel from the Russians any hesitation from them that before you, there was another ops lead, and before that person there was another ops lead? Did they treat you the same as they did the one before? Or do you feel like there was some time in there that they had to get to know you before they treated you with respect?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they test everybody that comes in. They just see how much they can get away with. You should expect that going in. They get away with varying degrees of stuff with different people. Some of it, I think, they try on purpose, and some of it is just natural creep back to the way they want things to be unless told otherwise. But I think there is some of that. I personally think we should have somebody there in station, have somebody there for a longer period of time just for consistency, because that's the way their culture works. They've got to get to know people. When we're sending a person in every time, they know you're only there for so long, too. They're just as sick of you as you are of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most of the folks you were working with had long tenure with their careers as far as the Russians are concerned?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.717567238178847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they test everybody that comes in. They just see how much they can get away with. You should expect that going in. They get away with varying degrees of stuff with different people. Some of it, I think, they try on purpose, and some of it is just natural creep back to the way they want things to be unless told otherwise. But I think there is some of that. I personally think we should have somebody there in station, have somebody there for a longer period of time just for consistency, because that's the way their culture works. They've got to get to know people. When we're sending a person in every time, they know you're only there for so long, too. They're just as sick of you as you are of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most of the folks you were working with had long tenure with their careers as far as the Russians are concerned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Russians?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, jeez, yes. Most of those guys were ancient, had been doing the same thing forever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the average age of your team members?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.241741375754274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Russians?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, jeez, yes. Most of those guys were ancient, had been doing the same thing forever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the average age of your team members?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, like in the low thirties, probably, maybe younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least you had enthusiasm."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.824157084171415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, jeez, yes. Most of those guys were ancient, had been doing the same thing forever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the average age of your team members?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, like in the low thirties, probably, maybe younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least you had enthusiasm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. [Laughter] That's a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And some of your team members, they had been there for a long time, or they just had returning trips?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.47128564907935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, like in the low thirties, probably, maybe younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least you had enthusiasm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. [Laughter] That's a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And some of your team members, they had been there for a long time, or they just had returning trips?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my increment, it was a lot of the same people that had been rotating, so they were all pretty experienced with being there. I didn't have to deal with any of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that helped."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.190317387865944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. [Laughter] That's a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And some of your team members, they had been there for a long time, or they just had returning trips?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my increment, it was a lot of the same people that had been rotating, so they were all pretty experienced with being there. I didn't have to deal with any of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that helped."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them were new, but overall the experience level was pretty high, and they all were fairly autonomous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How is your Russian?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.989241542073271, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my increment, it was a lot of the same people that had been rotating, so they were all pretty experienced with being there. I didn't have to deal with any of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that helped."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them were new, but overall the experience level was pretty high, and they all were fairly autonomous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How is your Russian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Russian stinks. It's okay, it's survival level. I can't get a cheeseburger with no pickles or something. I can get along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it something you'd like to pursue and get better at?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.876935046748079, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them were new, but overall the experience level was pretty high, and they all were fairly autonomous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How is your Russian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Russian stinks. It's okay, it's survival level. I can't get a cheeseburger with no pickles or something. I can get along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it something you'd like to pursue and get better at?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I was going to go back I would want, but I don't plan on that. I'm not saying never. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have learned something from this job."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.863261163053421, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Russian stinks. It's okay, it's survival level. I can't get a cheeseburger with no pickles or something. I can get along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it something you'd like to pursue and get better at?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I was going to go back I would want, but I don't plan on that. I'm not saying never. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have learned something from this job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about your family experiences, because you were fortunate that at least you could home at night and have the comfort and warmth of your family there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.959179070059356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I was going to go back I would want, but I don't plan on that. I'm not saying never. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have learned something from this job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about your family experiences, because you were fortunate that at least you could home at night and have the comfort and warmth of your family there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't have to make dinner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made dinner?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.176865633399284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about your family experiences, because you were fortunate that at least you could home at night and have the comfort and warmth of your family there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't have to make dinner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made dinner?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Did your wife and kids have friends there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.41873959266587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't have to make dinner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made dinner?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Did your wife and kids have friends there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Many. The kids really had it hard, my wife did, too, because they have quite a network back here. They found some friends over there, a few. And the kids miss out on Little League and dance and all that. After a while I think that really wears on them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about education? Did you put them into Russian schools?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.68748843629541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Did your wife and kids have friends there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Many. The kids really had it hard, my wife did, too, because they have quite a network back here. They found some friends over there, a few. And the kids miss out on Little League and dance and all that. After a while I think that really wears on them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about education? Did you put them into Russian schools?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn't going to do that. They could have gone to the embassy school if I'd given up my per diem. I wasn't going to give up my per diem because I wanted to take them Europe, and I wasn't going to be able to afford that without per diem, so we home-schooled them while they were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's a challenge in itself no matter where you are."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.097209373661567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Many. The kids really had it hard, my wife did, too, because they have quite a network back here. They found some friends over there, a few. And the kids miss out on Little League and dance and all that. After a while I think that really wears on them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about education? Did you put them into Russian schools?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn't going to do that. They could have gone to the embassy school if I'd given up my per diem. I wasn't going to give up my per diem because I wanted to take them Europe, and I wasn't going to be able to afford that without per diem, so we home-schooled them while they were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's a challenge in itself no matter where you are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, that was my wife's. She handled that with varying degrees of success."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's school, though, in general."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.663565970735075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn't going to do that. They could have gone to the embassy school if I'd given up my per diem. I wasn't going to give up my per diem because I wanted to take them Europe, and I wasn't going to be able to afford that without per diem, so we home-schooled them while they were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's a challenge in itself no matter where you are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, that was my wife's. She handled that with varying degrees of success."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's school, though, in general."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You just don't treat your mom like you do your teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to go on to Europe and be able to do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.070628856372306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, that was my wife's. She handled that with varying degrees of success."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's school, though, in general."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You just don't treat your mom like you do your teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to go on to Europe and be able to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we went to Germany, Austria, Italy, just kind of a little drive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was pleasant?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.189587618191451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You just don't treat your mom like you do your teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to go on to Europe and be able to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we went to Germany, Austria, Italy, just kind of a little drive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was pleasant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was most excellent. It was very good. My wife came home and said, \"I save $500 from flying Aeroflot.\" I said, \"I don't think so.\" I said, \"I work with these people every day, deal with their customer service every day. I'll pay you $500, I want to be on Lufthansa. I want to be treated like a customer. I don't care what it costs.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were glad to get home."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.432875131323835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we went to Germany, Austria, Italy, just kind of a little drive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was pleasant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was most excellent. It was very good. My wife came home and said, \"I save $500 from flying Aeroflot.\" I said, \"I don't think so.\" I said, \"I work with these people every day, deal with their customer service every day. I'll pay you $500, I want to be on Lufthansa. I want to be treated like a customer. I don't care what it costs.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were glad to get home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, it was good to go to Germany. It was good to get back. It was kind of hard going back to Russia after that, but then you knew you only had so much time left, and then it was great to get home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You haven't been home very long then, have you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.480972368137595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was most excellent. It was very good. My wife came home and said, \"I save $500 from flying Aeroflot.\" I said, \"I don't think so.\" I said, \"I work with these people every day, deal with their customer service every day. I'll pay you $500, I want to be on Lufthansa. I want to be treated like a customer. I don't care what it costs.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were glad to get home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, it was good to go to Germany. It was good to get back. It was kind of hard going back to Russia after that, but then you knew you only had so much time left, and then it was great to get home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You haven't been home very long then, have you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got home in early June. I went to the landing, which was like on the tenth or twelfth, I don't really remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Twelfth, I think."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.312191520152883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, it was good to go to Germany. It was good to get back. It was kind of hard going back to Russia after that, but then you knew you only had so much time left, and then it was great to get home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You haven't been home very long then, have you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got home in early June. I went to the landing, which was like on the tenth or twelfth, I don't really remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Twelfth, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twelfth. And I came back here on the fourteenth, and I came in the morning of the fifteenth and put in a leave slip, and I came back to work, whatever the first Monday in July was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Getting back into some kind of routine."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.124657244614315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got home in early June. I went to the landing, which was like on the tenth or twelfth, I don't really remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Twelfth, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twelfth. And I came back here on the fourteenth, and I came in the morning of the fifteenth and put in a leave slip, and I came back to work, whatever the first Monday in July was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Getting back into some kind of routine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Back to the land of ISO 9000 and staff meetings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you're not listening to Russian every day."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.02739693846035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twelfth. And I came back here on the fourteenth, and I came in the morning of the fifteenth and put in a leave slip, and I came back to work, whatever the first Monday in July was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Getting back into some kind of routine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Back to the land of ISO 9000 and staff meetings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you're not listening to Russian every day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd almost rather listen to Russian. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] You were fortunate enough to be able to go to Russia with ISS, and then you were part of the Shuttle-Mir, and now you're back in the land of whatever norm is. How do you feel the Shuttle-Mir Program will benefit the ISS Program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.585996598289278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Back to the land of ISO 9000 and staff meetings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you're not listening to Russian every day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd almost rather listen to Russian. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] You were fortunate enough to be able to go to Russia with ISS, and then you were part of the Shuttle-Mir, and now you're back in the land of whatever norm is. How do you feel the Shuttle-Mir Program will benefit the ISS Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think we could have done it without it. All those things that you do first. Air Force has Red Flag and the Navy has Top Gun, and one of the philosophies behind that is they said they found out if a fighter pilot survives his first ten missions, then he's probably going to do okay. I think Phase One was like our first, a way to walk through those first gripping experiences without having total responsibility for the whole station, and getting to know the Russians. Coming up against these crisis points with the Russians, and seeing how they react, and seeing what we do, without having all of the responsibility for resolving it, and learning how to work together on those things, that was invaluable. I don't know if many people really know. We've gone over a lot of those first humps without really--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems like a lot's been accomplished in such a small amount of time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.206662886988087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd almost rather listen to Russian. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] You were fortunate enough to be able to go to Russia with ISS, and then you were part of the Shuttle-Mir, and now you're back in the land of whatever norm is. How do you feel the Shuttle-Mir Program will benefit the ISS Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think we could have done it without it. All those things that you do first. Air Force has Red Flag and the Navy has Top Gun, and one of the philosophies behind that is they said they found out if a fighter pilot survives his first ten missions, then he's probably going to do okay. I think Phase One was like our first, a way to walk through those first gripping experiences without having total responsibility for the whole station, and getting to know the Russians. Coming up against these crisis points with the Russians, and seeing how they react, and seeing what we do, without having all of the responsibility for resolving it, and learning how to work together on those things, that was invaluable. I don't know if many people really know. We've gone over a lot of those first humps without really--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems like a lot's been accomplished in such a small amount of time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It'll be a long time before people really appreciate it. Some people never will. They don't care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've talked about the lowest point of your term there. Is there a time that you remember as you were really glad that you volunteered to do this, that you felt the success that you knew that that position could have?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.662546774059367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It'll be a long time before people really appreciate it. Some people never will. They don't care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've talked about the lowest point of your term there. Is there a time that you remember as you were really glad that you volunteered to do this, that you felt the success that you knew that that position could have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably like three-quarters of the way through, after we'd gotten past our major problems, and the light was out there at the end of the tunnel, and you start thinking about what you're going to have to go back to, and you start thinking, \"You know, this is a pretty good job.\" You've got a small team of people who pretty much know what they're doing, other than being a little dysfunctional family, and some points we're getting to go to this foreign country, you've got a small team, you're in charge. It's a relatively noble goal, and you're getting to report at a high level, although it isn't appreciated by a lot of the middle management, or a lot of people didn't really think Phase One was that much, but it was a good program. It was a good thing to have done. I don't care what anybody says. It was a nice way to serve, a nice thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have to admit, it was different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but that's a good different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it meet your expectations, or did you have expectations when you walked into the job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.513940860065963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably like three-quarters of the way through, after we'd gotten past our major problems, and the light was out there at the end of the tunnel, and you start thinking about what you're going to have to go back to, and you start thinking, \"You know, this is a pretty good job.\" You've got a small team of people who pretty much know what they're doing, other than being a little dysfunctional family, and some points we're getting to go to this foreign country, you've got a small team, you're in charge. It's a relatively noble goal, and you're getting to report at a high level, although it isn't appreciated by a lot of the middle management, or a lot of people didn't really think Phase One was that much, but it was a good program. It was a good thing to have done. I don't care what anybody says. It was a nice way to serve, a nice thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have to admit, it was different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but that's a good different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it meet your expectations, or did you have expectations when you walked into the job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think overall it did, yes. It wasn't too hard. We didn't have any of the crises of some of the other missions, major. It was not too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure most people involved were glad that this one was kind of a calm one."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.459934288962181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but that's a good different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it meet your expectations, or did you have expectations when you walked into the job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think overall it did, yes. It wasn't too hard. We didn't have any of the crises of some of the other missions, major. It was not too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure most people involved were glad that this one was kind of a calm one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I wasn't. I didn't want anybody to get hurt, but it would be nice to have to go up against something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, Andy might differ with that. [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.511038098846868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think overall it did, yes. It wasn't too hard. We didn't have any of the crises of some of the other missions, major. It was not too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure most people involved were glad that this one was kind of a calm one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I wasn't. I didn't want anybody to get hurt, but it would be nice to have to go up against something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, Andy might differ with that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I'm sure he felt like he was up against plenty. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm going to ask Paul and Summer if they have any questions.\n\nYou said something about you and Frank knew each other in a former life; you were Air Force and he was Navy. How did that turn out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.234486776496521, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I wasn't. I didn't want anybody to get hurt, but it would be nice to have to go up against something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, Andy might differ with that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I'm sure he felt like he was up against plenty. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm going to ask Paul and Summer if they have any questions.\n\nYou said something about you and Frank knew each other in a former life; you were Air Force and he was Navy. How did that turn out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the lead flight director in Sunnyvale for a DOD [Department of Defense] payload, and he was the pilot for STS-38."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was working with him in a totally different capacity."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.816096418329468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I'm sure he felt like he was up against plenty. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm going to ask Paul and Summer if they have any questions.\n\nYou said something about you and Frank knew each other in a former life; you were Air Force and he was Navy. How did that turn out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the lead flight director in Sunnyvale for a DOD [Department of Defense] payload, and he was the pilot for STS-38."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was working with him in a totally different capacity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but it was good. I knew Jim VanLaak quite a bit from before, too. He's the one that hired me on MOD into station. They both saved me. I was going to leave after ISS, because I'd had more than enough; I was burned out. If it hadn't been for Phase One, I'd probably be gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is like shock treatment? They put you into Phase One to keep you going?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:178", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.462329353699409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the lead flight director in Sunnyvale for a DOD [Department of Defense] payload, and he was the pilot for STS-38."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was working with him in a totally different capacity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but it was good. I knew Jim VanLaak quite a bit from before, too. He's the one that hired me on MOD into station. They both saved me. I was going to leave after ISS, because I'd had more than enough; I was burned out. If it hadn't been for Phase One, I'd probably be gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is like shock treatment? They put you into Phase One to keep you going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great. I'd much rather be on an operational program, doing real things than talking about stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or shuffling papers."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:180", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.180365948554899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but it was good. I knew Jim VanLaak quite a bit from before, too. He's the one that hired me on MOD into station. They both saved me. I was going to leave after ISS, because I'd had more than enough; I was burned out. If it hadn't been for Phase One, I'd probably be gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is like shock treatment? They put you into Phase One to keep you going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great. I'd much rather be on an operational program, doing real things than talking about stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or shuffling papers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That drives me nuts. Arguing about stuff that doesn't matter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What time of day was it when they'd call up? Would it be at eight o'clock here in Houston?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:182", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.755962165060999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great. I'd much rather be on an operational program, doing real things than talking about stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or shuffling papers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That drives me nuts. Arguing about stuff that doesn't matter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What time of day was it when they'd call up? Would it be at eight o'clock here in Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it'd probably be six-thirty or seven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long would y'all talk?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:184", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.284402405623332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That drives me nuts. Arguing about stuff that doesn't matter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What time of day was it when they'd call up? Would it be at eight o'clock here in Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it'd probably be six-thirty or seven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long would y'all talk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very long; ten, fifteen minutes. You just wanted to know. He cheats. [Laughter] He calls and then he goes into his staff meeting and asks his people what's going on. And then he says, \"No, that's not what's going on. This is what's going on.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Sounds like a move of a smart manager. He knows his people well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:186", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.871558228470369, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it'd probably be six-thirty or seven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long would y'all talk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very long; ten, fifteen minutes. You just wanted to know. He cheats. [Laughter] He calls and then he goes into his staff meeting and asks his people what's going on. And then he says, \"No, that's not what's going on. This is what's going on.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Sounds like a move of a smart manager. He knows his people well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's pretty wired, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's a commander from all aspects, I guess."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:188", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.523953587189299, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very long; ten, fifteen minutes. You just wanted to know. He cheats. [Laughter] He calls and then he goes into his staff meeting and asks his people what's going on. And then he says, \"No, that's not what's going on. This is what's going on.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Sounds like a move of a smart manager. He knows his people well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's pretty wired, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's a commander from all aspects, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I like him a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Summer, do you have any questions?\n\nNo.\n\nWell, would you do it again?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:190", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.248837319099221, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's pretty wired, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's a commander from all aspects, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I like him a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Summer, do you have any questions?\n\nNo.\n\nWell, would you do it again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I won't do it again. I think it was an excellent thing to do once. If I had that to do over again, I would do it again, actually. I won't go back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think the position and the way that the team was set up in Russia, is that a necessity for ISS, or would you suggest making changes? Or is it too early even to predict that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:192", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.8320414656658, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I like him a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Summer, do you have any questions?\n\nNo.\n\nWell, would you do it again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I won't do it again. I think it was an excellent thing to do once. If I had that to do over again, I would do it again, actually. I won't go back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think the position and the way that the team was set up in Russia, is that a necessity for ISS, or would you suggest making changes? Or is it too early even to predict that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's not going to be nearly as much fun in Phase Two, because there's way too many people involved now. Everybody in this whole thing is so Shuttle-centered. Now they'll all pile on, there will be a lot more people involved, and you won't have the same autonomy as before. The team will get bigger. It won't be the same again. That was fun. It won't be fun anymore, I don't think.\\n\\n I think there are some flaws in the way it's set up. Because you're there for five months, five months is almost as bad as you can get. You can't sell your house, you can't let things drop back here, but you're gone, and it doesn't pay to change your address and all that stuff, but you're going to have to deal with your bills and your mail and everything else, and the kids in school. I can pull them out of school and home-school them once. I can't continuously yank them in and out of school. I just can't do that. You're going to have to be single or divorced or about to be to keep doing that. You just can't do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are they adjusting well being back home now? They fall right back into a routine?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:196", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.480046072962001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I won't do it again. I think it was an excellent thing to do once. If I had that to do over again, I would do it again, actually. I won't go back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think the position and the way that the team was set up in Russia, is that a necessity for ISS, or would you suggest making changes? Or is it too early even to predict that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's not going to be nearly as much fun in Phase Two, because there's way too many people involved now. Everybody in this whole thing is so Shuttle-centered. Now they'll all pile on, there will be a lot more people involved, and you won't have the same autonomy as before. The team will get bigger. It won't be the same again. That was fun. It won't be fun anymore, I don't think.\\n\\n I think there are some flaws in the way it's set up. Because you're there for five months, five months is almost as bad as you can get. You can't sell your house, you can't let things drop back here, but you're gone, and it doesn't pay to change your address and all that stuff, but you're going to have to deal with your bills and your mail and everything else, and the kids in school. I can pull them out of school and home-school them once. I can't continuously yank them in and out of school. I just can't do that. You're going to have to be single or divorced or about to be to keep doing that. You just can't do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are they adjusting well being back home now? They fall right back into a routine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We had hoped that they would learn that they don't need nearly as much, they would see that other people are getting by. All they did was pent up a little capitalism and head straight to the mall when we got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Went to the grocery store to buy the things that they want to eat."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:198", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.200051192180001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's not going to be nearly as much fun in Phase Two, because there's way too many people involved now. Everybody in this whole thing is so Shuttle-centered. Now they'll all pile on, there will be a lot more people involved, and you won't have the same autonomy as before. The team will get bigger. It won't be the same again. That was fun. It won't be fun anymore, I don't think.\\n\\n I think there are some flaws in the way it's set up. Because you're there for five months, five months is almost as bad as you can get. You can't sell your house, you can't let things drop back here, but you're gone, and it doesn't pay to change your address and all that stuff, but you're going to have to deal with your bills and your mail and everything else, and the kids in school. I can pull them out of school and home-school them once. I can't continuously yank them in and out of school. I just can't do that. You're going to have to be single or divorced or about to be to keep doing that. You just can't do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are they adjusting well being back home now? They fall right back into a routine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We had hoped that they would learn that they don't need nearly as much, they would see that other people are getting by. All they did was pent up a little capitalism and head straight to the mall when we got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Went to the grocery store to buy the things that they want to eat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and drive around in their own car, go where they want when they want."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The traffic a little more tolerable here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:200", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.0000568802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We had hoped that they would learn that they don't need nearly as much, they would see that other people are getting by. All they did was pent up a little capitalism and head straight to the mall when we got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Went to the grocery store to buy the things that they want to eat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and drive around in their own car, go where they want when they want."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The traffic a little more tolerable here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. [Laughter] There's no oncoming cars in your lane, no dead pedestrians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel that the crew members on Mir were safer than you were in that van?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:202", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.777840978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and drive around in their own car, go where they want when they want."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The traffic a little more tolerable here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. [Laughter] There's no oncoming cars in your lane, no dead pedestrians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel that the crew members on Mir were safer than you were in that van?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd like to think so. There's a whole group of people looking out for you. You've just got this driver who doesn't even speak English. Oh, my God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did y'all feel safe when you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:204", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.53093442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. [Laughter] There's no oncoming cars in your lane, no dead pedestrians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel that the crew members on Mir were safer than you were in that van?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd like to think so. There's a whole group of people looking out for you. You've just got this driver who doesn't even speak English. Oh, my God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did y'all feel safe when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, overall yes, but it's not Kansas. It's a dangerous place. You get hurt, you can't just turn to somebody. If you come up in the middle of a fight, you don't know who the good guy is or the bad buy is, and you don't know if this is about to go asymptotic You don't know what you're in the middle of. Some grungy over there might be the safest guy on the road, and this well-dressed guy over here might be a mafia guy. You just don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you personally feel, when you got home, there was something specific you wanted to do as soon as you hit Houston? Something you missed?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:206", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.2565938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd like to think so. There's a whole group of people looking out for you. You've just got this driver who doesn't even speak English. Oh, my God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did y'all feel safe when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, overall yes, but it's not Kansas. It's a dangerous place. You get hurt, you can't just turn to somebody. If you come up in the middle of a fight, you don't know who the good guy is or the bad buy is, and you don't know if this is about to go asymptotic You don't know what you're in the middle of. Some grungy over there might be the safest guy on the road, and this well-dressed guy over here might be a mafia guy. You just don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you personally feel, when you got home, there was something specific you wanted to do as soon as you hit Houston? Something you missed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I took care of that when I was in Florida. I wanted a big old steak and a baked potato and a salad, and I didn't want to have to worry about what the word was or what I wanted. I just wanted to eat it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And be happy. [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:208", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 8.062882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, overall yes, but it's not Kansas. It's a dangerous place. You get hurt, you can't just turn to somebody. If you come up in the middle of a fight, you don't know who the good guy is or the bad buy is, and you don't know if this is about to go asymptotic You don't know what you're in the middle of. Some grungy over there might be the safest guy on the road, and this well-dressed guy over here might be a mafia guy. You just don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you personally feel, when you got home, there was something specific you wanted to do as soon as you hit Houston? Something you missed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I took care of that when I was in Florida. I wanted a big old steak and a baked potato and a salad, and I didn't want to have to worry about what the word was or what I wanted. I just wanted to eat it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And be happy. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Go to the beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess maybe the word is you were able to relax once you got home?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:210", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1809800000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I took care of that when I was in Florida. I wanted a big old steak and a baked potato and a salad, and I didn't want to have to worry about what the word was or what I wanted. I just wanted to eat it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And be happy. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Go to the beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess maybe the word is you were able to relax once you got home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, as soon as the wheels leave the ground in Moscow, that's a major emotional event, number one. Then when you land in the U.S., if you just get to the U.S. you can handle any problem. I can pull out my Visa or my American Express, and I can fix anything. I can tell you what I want, or I can pick up the phone and it'll work, I don't have to have eighty different kinds of tokens or count rubles.\\n\\n I went to the grocery store when I was in Cocoa Beach to buy a Pepsi, a twelve-pack of Pepsi. I went in there at it was like $2.89. So I went, \"Okay, what's that in dollars?\" So I divided by six, and I went, \"That ain't right, let's multiply by six.\" I multiplied by six, and I thought, \"God, that's too much. Oh, it's $2.89.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No wonder your brain's kind of tired."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:212", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3122000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Go to the beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess maybe the word is you were able to relax once you got home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, as soon as the wheels leave the ground in Moscow, that's a major emotional event, number one. Then when you land in the U.S., if you just get to the U.S. you can handle any problem. I can pull out my Visa or my American Express, and I can fix anything. I can tell you what I want, or I can pick up the phone and it'll work, I don't have to have eighty different kinds of tokens or count rubles.\\n\\n I went to the grocery store when I was in Cocoa Beach to buy a Pepsi, a twelve-pack of Pepsi. I went in there at it was like $2.89. So I went, \"Okay, what's that in dollars?\" So I divided by six, and I went, \"That ain't right, let's multiply by six.\" I multiplied by six, and I thought, \"God, that's too much. Oh, it's $2.89.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No wonder your brain's kind of tired."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing was simple."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:214", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4580000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, as soon as the wheels leave the ground in Moscow, that's a major emotional event, number one. Then when you land in the U.S., if you just get to the U.S. you can handle any problem. I can pull out my Visa or my American Express, and I can fix anything. I can tell you what I want, or I can pick up the phone and it'll work, I don't have to have eighty different kinds of tokens or count rubles.\\n\\n I went to the grocery store when I was in Cocoa Beach to buy a Pepsi, a twelve-pack of Pepsi. I went in there at it was like $2.89. So I went, \"Okay, what's that in dollars?\" So I divided by six, and I went, \"That ain't right, let's multiply by six.\" I multiplied by six, and I thought, \"God, that's too much. Oh, it's $2.89.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No wonder your brain's kind of tired."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing was simple."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Everything's a chore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We hope that the next few months are somewhat relaxing and you can enjoy the rest of the summer and get back on some routine with your family."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:216", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing was simple."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Everything's a chore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We hope that the next few months are somewhat relaxing and you can enjoy the rest of the summer and get back on some routine with your family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We're already back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we're glad that you took time out of your schedule to come visit with us. We appreciate it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:218", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Everything's a chore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We hope that the next few months are somewhat relaxing and you can enjoy the rest of the summer and get back on some routine with your family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We're already back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we're glad that you took time out of your schedule to come visit with us. We appreciate it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you again."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:220", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We're already back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we're glad that you took time out of your schedule to come visit with us. We appreciate it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thanks. [Tape recorder turned off; then activated again for the following.]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:222", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thanks. [Tape recorder turned off; then activated again for the following.]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Andy [Thomas] called down and he said that he had picked up the photo TV check list, and he had looked at the contingency page, and he had gotten quite a laugh. He appreciated that because it was the first good laugh he had had in months. I said, \"Oh, that's great,\" but I had no idea what he was talking about. [Laughter] So I called back to Houston. I said, \"What's in the photo TV checklist?\" This is the photo TV checklist, contingency tab. This is the picture they took at the last training session, the last NASA-7 training session. It says, \"Everything will be fine.\" It's got this pull tab. The photo TV people put that thing up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's terrific.\n\nThat was always your definitive statement."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:224", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thanks. [Tape recorder turned off; then activated again for the following.]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Andy [Thomas] called down and he said that he had picked up the photo TV check list, and he had looked at the contingency page, and he had gotten quite a laugh. He appreciated that because it was the first good laugh he had had in months. I said, \"Oh, that's great,\" but I had no idea what he was talking about. [Laughter] So I called back to Houston. I said, \"What's in the photo TV checklist?\" This is the photo TV checklist, contingency tab. This is the picture they took at the last training session, the last NASA-7 training session. It says, \"Everything will be fine.\" It's got this pull tab. The photo TV people put that thing up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's terrific.\n\nThat was always your definitive statement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. \"Everything's fine. Just carry on.\" Kept telling Andy that in orbit, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great.\n\nAnd it was."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:226", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Andy [Thomas] called down and he said that he had picked up the photo TV check list, and he had looked at the contingency page, and he had gotten quite a laugh. He appreciated that because it was the first good laugh he had had in months. I said, \"Oh, that's great,\" but I had no idea what he was talking about. [Laughter] So I called back to Houston. I said, \"What's in the photo TV checklist?\" This is the photo TV checklist, contingency tab. This is the picture they took at the last training session, the last NASA-7 training session. It says, \"Everything will be fine.\" It's got this pull tab. The photo TV people put that thing up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's terrific.\n\nThat was always your definitive statement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. \"Everything's fine. Just carry on.\" Kept telling Andy that in orbit, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great.\n\nAnd it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or you'd have to have your picture replaced."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. \"Everything's fine. Just carry on.\" Kept telling Andy that in orbit, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great.\n\nAnd it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or you'd have to have your picture replaced."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Come back and have scars drawn on it and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe Andy will hang that in his house. Or maybe you can hang that in your house."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00793:232", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or you'd have to have your picture replaced."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Come back and have scars drawn on it and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe Andy will hang that in his house. Or maybe you can hang that in your house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a good thing he read that, or it could have been one of those secrets that nobody would able have been able to know."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.334592914424665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chuck Piercy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chuck Piercy, and it is July 14, 2015, and we are in room 5100. So, Mr. Piercy, could you please provide a brief overview of your career at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've worked here since about September of 2008 and will be retiring, and moving to another position on July 25, 2015."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you held multiple positions here? Or what positions have you held?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I originally came here to be the Deputy Chief Information Officer and then while I was in that position the Chief Information Officer retired and so I was acting CIO for about 10-11 months and then I was offered the position I'm in now which is the Executive for Business Support Services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your education and previous work experience influence your decision to work for the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.705103238249627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've worked here since about September of 2008 and will be retiring, and moving to another position on July 25, 2015."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you held multiple positions here? Or what positions have you held?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I originally came here to be the Deputy Chief Information Officer and then while I was in that position the Chief Information Officer retired and so I was acting CIO for about 10-11 months and then I was offered the position I'm in now which is the Executive for Business Support Services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your education and previous work experience influence your decision to work for the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My previous work experience was with NOAA, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and I had worked there for a number of years in engineering and program management, and those were skills that were deemed to be useful by the Chief Information Officer for the Electronic Records Archives and some of the other big electronic records projects that were going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your original impressions of NARA?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.33900359805514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I originally came here to be the Deputy Chief Information Officer and then while I was in that position the Chief Information Officer retired and so I was acting CIO for about 10-11 months and then I was offered the position I'm in now which is the Executive for Business Support Services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your education and previous work experience influence your decision to work for the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My previous work experience was with NOAA, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and I had worked there for a number of years in engineering and program management, and those were skills that were deemed to be useful by the Chief Information Officer for the Electronic Records Archives and some of the other big electronic records projects that were going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your original impressions of NARA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I originally expected to see much more in the way of electronic records, storage, and preservation. And I was initially surprised to see that many, most of the records here at the archives were in paper and other analog formats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular reason? Or could you provide some more context as to why you expected there to be more digital than more paper?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.932226220061267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My previous work experience was with NOAA, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and I had worked there for a number of years in engineering and program management, and those were skills that were deemed to be useful by the Chief Information Officer for the Electronic Records Archives and some of the other big electronic records projects that were going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your original impressions of NARA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I originally expected to see much more in the way of electronic records, storage, and preservation. And I was initially surprised to see that many, most of the records here at the archives were in paper and other analog formats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular reason? Or could you provide some more context as to why you expected there to be more digital than more paper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I've been in the working world for about 35 years, and maybe in the first five of those years we actually had born-analog records on typewriters and things, but for the last 30 years all records have been created from electronic sources, and therefore it just seems like it would be more efficient to accession the electronic version of the record rather than a paper version of it. They're essentially all created electronically—we used to the term born digital—almost everything is born- digital—it's just that we archive the analog version."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How has the balance between paper and digital records evolved during your time here?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 25.48025135562363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I originally expected to see much more in the way of electronic records, storage, and preservation. And I was initially surprised to see that many, most of the records here at the archives were in paper and other analog formats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular reason? Or could you provide some more context as to why you expected there to be more digital than more paper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I've been in the working world for about 35 years, and maybe in the first five of those years we actually had born-analog records on typewriters and things, but for the last 30 years all records have been created from electronic sources, and therefore it just seems like it would be more efficient to accession the electronic version of the record rather than a paper version of it. They're essentially all created electronically—we used to the term born digital—almost everything is born- digital—it's just that we archive the analog version."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How has the balance between paper and digital records evolved during your time here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been here for almost 7 years and I haven’t seen any real breakthroughs in terms of a movement toward electronic records. Except possibly for the Presidential Memo and the update to the Federal Records Act, which I think has the potential for some real movement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What exactly is the Federal Records Act?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 26.089168172915144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I've been in the working world for about 35 years, and maybe in the first five of those years we actually had born-analog records on typewriters and things, but for the last 30 years all records have been created from electronic sources, and therefore it just seems like it would be more efficient to accession the electronic version of the record rather than a paper version of it. They're essentially all created electronically—we used to the term born digital—almost everything is born- digital—it's just that we archive the analog version."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How has the balance between paper and digital records evolved during your time here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been here for almost 7 years and I haven’t seen any real breakthroughs in terms of a movement toward electronic records. Except possibly for the Presidential Memo and the update to the Federal Records Act, which I think has the potential for some real movement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What exactly is the Federal Records Act?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Federal Records Act is the act of Congress that controls the preservation and management of Federal records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What successes have you achieved here at NARA?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.432409081016827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been here for almost 7 years and I haven’t seen any real breakthroughs in terms of a movement toward electronic records. Except possibly for the Presidential Memo and the update to the Federal Records Act, which I think has the potential for some real movement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What exactly is the Federal Records Act?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Federal Records Act is the act of Congress that controls the preservation and management of Federal records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What successes have you achieved here at NARA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think a big one was helping to make the Electronic Records Archives system program operational with the initial operating capability. The program was in real danger of being killed by OMB (Office of Management and Budget) and Congress, and we worked very hard to keep that from happening; it was shortened but it was not killed, and at one time it was about 20% of the NARA budget, so that's a pretty important thing. When I was in the CIO shop we had quite a few successful projects, including the network attached storage that added about two petabytes of storage here that was critically needed. Both for email file storage, shared drive file storage, but also for scanned image storage, and we updated all the servers and since I've been in been in Business Support Services, we've had a couple of historic building renovations including the National Archives Experience Phase II or NAE II in the National Archives Building in Washington, DC and the Customs House renovation for the National Archives space and the Customs House in lower Manhattan. So quite a few accomplishments, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned sort of the friction in the budget with congress and in the importance of the ERA—could you speak to the urgency of the electronic records archive?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.813787867796474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Federal Records Act is the act of Congress that controls the preservation and management of Federal records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What successes have you achieved here at NARA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think a big one was helping to make the Electronic Records Archives system program operational with the initial operating capability. The program was in real danger of being killed by OMB (Office of Management and Budget) and Congress, and we worked very hard to keep that from happening; it was shortened but it was not killed, and at one time it was about 20% of the NARA budget, so that's a pretty important thing. When I was in the CIO shop we had quite a few successful projects, including the network attached storage that added about two petabytes of storage here that was critically needed. Both for email file storage, shared drive file storage, but also for scanned image storage, and we updated all the servers and since I've been in been in Business Support Services, we've had a couple of historic building renovations including the National Archives Experience Phase II or NAE II in the National Archives Building in Washington, DC and the Customs House renovation for the National Archives space and the Customs House in lower Manhattan. So quite a few accomplishments, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned sort of the friction in the budget with congress and in the importance of the ERA—could you speak to the urgency of the electronic records archive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the electronic records archives program had been going on for quite a few years, and Congress and OMB grew impatient for signs of success and milestones that would point to our success, and so one thing we had to do was we were given a firm deadline—I believe it was the end of calendar year 2011—to complete it and make it operation. And we met that deadline and were able to preserve the funding for the program"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What aspects of your work do you most enjoy?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.348653186440528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think a big one was helping to make the Electronic Records Archives system program operational with the initial operating capability. The program was in real danger of being killed by OMB (Office of Management and Budget) and Congress, and we worked very hard to keep that from happening; it was shortened but it was not killed, and at one time it was about 20% of the NARA budget, so that's a pretty important thing. When I was in the CIO shop we had quite a few successful projects, including the network attached storage that added about two petabytes of storage here that was critically needed. Both for email file storage, shared drive file storage, but also for scanned image storage, and we updated all the servers and since I've been in been in Business Support Services, we've had a couple of historic building renovations including the National Archives Experience Phase II or NAE II in the National Archives Building in Washington, DC and the Customs House renovation for the National Archives space and the Customs House in lower Manhattan. So quite a few accomplishments, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned sort of the friction in the budget with congress and in the importance of the ERA—could you speak to the urgency of the electronic records archive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the electronic records archives program had been going on for quite a few years, and Congress and OMB grew impatient for signs of success and milestones that would point to our success, and so one thing we had to do was we were given a firm deadline—I believe it was the end of calendar year 2011—to complete it and make it operation. And we met that deadline and were able to preserve the funding for the program"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What aspects of your work do you most enjoy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really like working with people and sort of forming teams to get projects accomplished. And I have a project management background and I would really like to be able to point to something as a firm accomplishment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's the greatest team you’ve worked on here?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.720725762711696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the electronic records archives program had been going on for quite a few years, and Congress and OMB grew impatient for signs of success and milestones that would point to our success, and so one thing we had to do was we were given a firm deadline—I believe it was the end of calendar year 2011—to complete it and make it operation. And we met that deadline and were able to preserve the funding for the program"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What aspects of your work do you most enjoy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really like working with people and sort of forming teams to get projects accomplished. And I have a project management background and I would really like to be able to point to something as a firm accomplishment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's the greatest team you’ve worked on here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say probably the team associated with Electronic Records Archives; also the storage area network was a pretty large project: it was a four or five million dollar project and had hardware at both College Park and Rocket Center, and that was a pretty large and successful team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is Rocket Center?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.023028625235218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really like working with people and sort of forming teams to get projects accomplished. And I have a project management background and I would really like to be able to point to something as a firm accomplishment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's the greatest team you’ve worked on here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say probably the team associated with Electronic Records Archives; also the storage area network was a pretty large project: it was a four or five million dollar project and had hardware at both College Park and Rocket Center, and that was a pretty large and successful team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is Rocket Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rocket Center is really two things; it's our continuity, or COOP, Continuity of Operations site. So, in the event of a catastrophic event in the Washington, DC area we could go to Rocket Center and resume operations of the agency. I hold the position called the continuity coordinator, which is one of my many hats. And so we annually have a continuity drill at Rocket Center. In addition, the base instance and the EOP instance of ERA are at Rocket Center, and so we have a full-time contingent of staff that are up there to maintain that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where is Rocket Center?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.136698472483575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say probably the team associated with Electronic Records Archives; also the storage area network was a pretty large project: it was a four or five million dollar project and had hardware at both College Park and Rocket Center, and that was a pretty large and successful team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is Rocket Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rocket Center is really two things; it's our continuity, or COOP, Continuity of Operations site. So, in the event of a catastrophic event in the Washington, DC area we could go to Rocket Center and resume operations of the agency. I hold the position called the continuity coordinator, which is one of my many hats. And so we annually have a continuity drill at Rocket Center. In addition, the base instance and the EOP instance of ERA are at Rocket Center, and so we have a full-time contingent of staff that are up there to maintain that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where is Rocket Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's in West Virginia, really in the middle of nowhere, really. In the panhandle of West Virginia and that's sort of by design, as we wanted it at least 50 or 60 miles out of Washington, DC in a relatively unpopulated area. It actually is on a Navy base in West Virginia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have there been any instances where it seemed possible that you would have to go there or were there any near cases of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.374109413870638, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rocket Center is really two things; it's our continuity, or COOP, Continuity of Operations site. So, in the event of a catastrophic event in the Washington, DC area we could go to Rocket Center and resume operations of the agency. I hold the position called the continuity coordinator, which is one of my many hats. And so we annually have a continuity drill at Rocket Center. In addition, the base instance and the EOP instance of ERA are at Rocket Center, and so we have a full-time contingent of staff that are up there to maintain that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where is Rocket Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's in West Virginia, really in the middle of nowhere, really. In the panhandle of West Virginia and that's sort of by design, as we wanted it at least 50 or 60 miles out of Washington, DC in a relatively unpopulated area. It actually is on a Navy base in West Virginia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have there been any instances where it seemed possible that you would have to go there or were there any near cases of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't think of anything that was catastrophic enough that we would need to go there since I've been working here. We did have a pretty severe earthquake in—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "(interposing) Summer 2011, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.415677126522931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's in West Virginia, really in the middle of nowhere, really. In the panhandle of West Virginia and that's sort of by design, as we wanted it at least 50 or 60 miles out of Washington, DC in a relatively unpopulated area. It actually is on a Navy base in West Virginia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have there been any instances where it seemed possible that you would have to go there or were there any near cases of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't think of anything that was catastrophic enough that we would need to go there since I've been working here. We did have a pretty severe earthquake in—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "(interposing) Summer 2011, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "2011, and we've had the possibility of tornadoes that could have affected the College Park facility, possible flooding in the National Archives, but, no, we've never had any actual events that where we've had to actually activate the COOP plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the name of that particular hat is the Continuity Manager, you said?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.572974585025479, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't think of anything that was catastrophic enough that we would need to go there since I've been working here. We did have a pretty severe earthquake in—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "(interposing) Summer 2011, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "2011, and we've had the possibility of tornadoes that could have affected the College Park facility, possible flooding in the National Archives, but, no, we've never had any actual events that where we've had to actually activate the COOP plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the name of that particular hat is the Continuity Manager, you said?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Continuity Coordinator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Continuity Coordinator. And how did you take on that position?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.85886065002831, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "2011, and we've had the possibility of tornadoes that could have affected the College Park facility, possible flooding in the National Archives, but, no, we've never had any actual events that where we've had to actually activate the COOP plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the name of that particular hat is the Continuity Manager, you said?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Continuity Coordinator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Continuity Coordinator. And how did you take on that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's position that all agencies have to have, and as the head of Business Support Services I have many hats that I wear that are requirements of law or requirements in executive orders. We'll get a new executive order that says we need a senior official in charge of X, Y, Z and sometimes that comes to me in Business Support Services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what are some examples of your other hats? I like that analogy."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.954289611142567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Continuity Coordinator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Continuity Coordinator. And how did you take on that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's position that all agencies have to have, and as the head of Business Support Services I have many hats that I wear that are requirements of law or requirements in executive orders. We'll get a new executive order that says we need a senior official in charge of X, Y, Z and sometimes that comes to me in Business Support Services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what are some examples of your other hats? I like that analogy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You see my hats over there on the desk. I am the Senior Official for Historic Facility Preservation Policy here at the Archives. I am the Designated Agency Safety and Health Official or the DASHO. I am the Senior Agency Security Official, and there's several other ones, as identified in NARA 101."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you do for the policy one?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.171432901269519, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's position that all agencies have to have, and as the head of Business Support Services I have many hats that I wear that are requirements of law or requirements in executive orders. We'll get a new executive order that says we need a senior official in charge of X, Y, Z and sometimes that comes to me in Business Support Services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what are some examples of your other hats? I like that analogy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You see my hats over there on the desk. I am the Senior Official for Historic Facility Preservation Policy here at the Archives. I am the Designated Agency Safety and Health Official or the DASHO. I am the Senior Agency Security Official, and there's several other ones, as identified in NARA 101."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you do for the policy one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It has to do with historic preservation, and we have several NARA properties that are significant historic buildings, such as the national historic archives building in Washington, DC, and these buildings cannot be modified without going through a number of steps to make sure that certain facades or certain spaces within the building are left in their current historic state, and so that's what the position has to do with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going back to your daily activities: can you describe a typical day in your unit?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.968258779188355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You see my hats over there on the desk. I am the Senior Official for Historic Facility Preservation Policy here at the Archives. I am the Designated Agency Safety and Health Official or the DASHO. I am the Senior Agency Security Official, and there's several other ones, as identified in NARA 101."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you do for the policy one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It has to do with historic preservation, and we have several NARA properties that are significant historic buildings, such as the national historic archives building in Washington, DC, and these buildings cannot be modified without going through a number of steps to make sure that certain facades or certain spaces within the building are left in their current historic state, and so that's what the position has to do with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going back to your daily activities: can you describe a typical day in your unit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty typical day is I arrive at about 7:30 in the morning and I have a cup of coffee and then will read emails. I get quite a few emails, even overnight I'll have quite a few emails, so I will scan those first to make sure that nothing urgent, and then I'll read them basically in chronological order. Fairly busy schedule, sometimes meetings back to back all day, and then will end my day with more emails, after noon. And sometimes there are crises. We've had a garage fire while I've been here, which had four fire trucks that responded. Two cars completely burned up and the possibility of many more cars being burned and possibly losing the entire garage. There's always something going on, always some sort of exciting crisis to solve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully the garage fire isn't a typical day, but that leads right into my next question, which is, what were some of the challenges and issues that you faced in your career with the agency?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.742509754653728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It has to do with historic preservation, and we have several NARA properties that are significant historic buildings, such as the national historic archives building in Washington, DC, and these buildings cannot be modified without going through a number of steps to make sure that certain facades or certain spaces within the building are left in their current historic state, and so that's what the position has to do with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going back to your daily activities: can you describe a typical day in your unit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty typical day is I arrive at about 7:30 in the morning and I have a cup of coffee and then will read emails. I get quite a few emails, even overnight I'll have quite a few emails, so I will scan those first to make sure that nothing urgent, and then I'll read them basically in chronological order. Fairly busy schedule, sometimes meetings back to back all day, and then will end my day with more emails, after noon. And sometimes there are crises. We've had a garage fire while I've been here, which had four fire trucks that responded. Two cars completely burned up and the possibility of many more cars being burned and possibly losing the entire garage. There's always something going on, always some sort of exciting crisis to solve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully the garage fire isn't a typical day, but that leads right into my next question, which is, what were some of the challenges and issues that you faced in your career with the agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think events like the garage fire and the earthquake were pretty challenging. We did have some shelving collapses at Suitland during the earthquake, and we had to make some emergency repairs to the building. We had to quickly assess impact to the College Park facility and Archives I and I think those things are probably some of the biggest challenges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What has been your relationship with other Federal agencies?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.60278861628192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty typical day is I arrive at about 7:30 in the morning and I have a cup of coffee and then will read emails. I get quite a few emails, even overnight I'll have quite a few emails, so I will scan those first to make sure that nothing urgent, and then I'll read them basically in chronological order. Fairly busy schedule, sometimes meetings back to back all day, and then will end my day with more emails, after noon. And sometimes there are crises. We've had a garage fire while I've been here, which had four fire trucks that responded. Two cars completely burned up and the possibility of many more cars being burned and possibly losing the entire garage. There's always something going on, always some sort of exciting crisis to solve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully the garage fire isn't a typical day, but that leads right into my next question, which is, what were some of the challenges and issues that you faced in your career with the agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think events like the garage fire and the earthquake were pretty challenging. We did have some shelving collapses at Suitland during the earthquake, and we had to make some emergency repairs to the building. We had to quickly assess impact to the College Park facility and Archives I and I think those things are probably some of the biggest challenges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What has been your relationship with other Federal agencies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have a pretty close relationship with Federal agencies, particularly with the CIO council I've worked a lot, and that is primarily the CIOs of the cabinet-level agencies, work closely with them and with OMB and in some cases with staffers on the hill to help meet our objectives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How so? Can you provide some examples of working with congressional staffs?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.22532068475769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think events like the garage fire and the earthquake were pretty challenging. We did have some shelving collapses at Suitland during the earthquake, and we had to make some emergency repairs to the building. We had to quickly assess impact to the College Park facility and Archives I and I think those things are probably some of the biggest challenges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What has been your relationship with other Federal agencies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have a pretty close relationship with Federal agencies, particularly with the CIO council I've worked a lot, and that is primarily the CIOs of the cabinet-level agencies, work closely with them and with OMB and in some cases with staffers on the hill to help meet our objectives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How so? Can you provide some examples of working with congressional staffs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we've had meetings with them on budgetary issues, particularly a lot of interaction during the ERA, something called the tech stat, technical status review, which were done government- wide and identified ERA as a program in trouble or a program that was not meeting its objectives, and so I had to work close with both OMB and the Hill in terms of that, in terms of making sure that we identified milestones that we could meet and keep the program going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some of those milestones?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.9170229830641, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have a pretty close relationship with Federal agencies, particularly with the CIO council I've worked a lot, and that is primarily the CIOs of the cabinet-level agencies, work closely with them and with OMB and in some cases with staffers on the hill to help meet our objectives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How so? Can you provide some examples of working with congressional staffs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we've had meetings with them on budgetary issues, particularly a lot of interaction during the ERA, something called the tech stat, technical status review, which were done government- wide and identified ERA as a program in trouble or a program that was not meeting its objectives, and so I had to work close with both OMB and the Hill in terms of that, in terms of making sure that we identified milestones that we could meet and keep the program going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some of those milestones?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the milestones would be completing the last software release that would enable the system to become operational and other milestones were in terms of the volume of records that we got into the system and the number of agencies that were able to utilize it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what exactly is the mission of the ERA?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.685581092293444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we've had meetings with them on budgetary issues, particularly a lot of interaction during the ERA, something called the tech stat, technical status review, which were done government- wide and identified ERA as a program in trouble or a program that was not meeting its objectives, and so I had to work close with both OMB and the Hill in terms of that, in terms of making sure that we identified milestones that we could meet and keep the program going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some of those milestones?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the milestones would be completing the last software release that would enable the system to become operational and other milestones were in terms of the volume of records that we got into the system and the number of agencies that were able to utilize it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what exactly is the mission of the ERA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the mission of ERA is to store and preserve and provide access to the records of the Federal government in electronic form, so the records that get accessioned and injested into ERA are completely in electronic form; we never see the paper versions of those records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Correct me if I'm wrong, but it does not include the records that were paper and then become digital?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.488371718880796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the mission of ERA is to store and preserve and provide access to the records of the Federal government in electronic form, so the records that get accessioned and injested into ERA are completely in electronic form; we never see the paper versions of those records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Correct me if I'm wrong, but it does not include the records that were paper and then become digital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it does not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It includes a digital surrogates, which are essentially digitized paper records, although it could, it could be expanded to include those, and may in the future."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you foresee the future of the ERA? Especially as more, let's say, agency records become more and more digital."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.431524132089773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it does not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It includes a digital surrogates, which are essentially digitized paper records, although it could, it could be expanded to include those, and may in the future."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you foresee the future of the ERA? Especially as more, let's say, agency records become more and more digital."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm not involved in it, but there are plans for a replacement of ERA that are being made now. I don't know if they're going to call it ERA 2 or next-generation ERA, but those plans are coming together now from an architectural standpoint. And that's the future of the archives, I think. It may be a slow transition, but I think eventually our job will transition to full Electronic Records Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What technological changes over time have you observed?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.479471257877526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It includes a digital surrogates, which are essentially digitized paper records, although it could, it could be expanded to include those, and may in the future."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you foresee the future of the ERA? Especially as more, let's say, agency records become more and more digital."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm not involved in it, but there are plans for a replacement of ERA that are being made now. I don't know if they're going to call it ERA 2 or next-generation ERA, but those plans are coming together now from an architectural standpoint. And that's the future of the archives, I think. It may be a slow transition, but I think eventually our job will transition to full Electronic Records Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What technological changes over time have you observed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's an interesting question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm actually writing a research paper on it too."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.64385695319725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm not involved in it, but there are plans for a replacement of ERA that are being made now. I don't know if they're going to call it ERA 2 or next-generation ERA, but those plans are coming together now from an architectural standpoint. And that's the future of the archives, I think. It may be a slow transition, but I think eventually our job will transition to full Electronic Records Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What technological changes over time have you observed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's an interesting question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm actually writing a research paper on it too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "(interposing) But it's also on my sheet."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.71539661466361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's an interesting question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm actually writing a research paper on it too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "(interposing) But it's also on my sheet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm an electrical engineer by training. And I've seen massive change in computer technology in my career. I was working in the Navy in the early days of the internet, and we would have this massive minicomputer that will fill this entire room almost. And that was our connection to the internet. And people would access the minicomputer by dial-in modem. Seems almost primitive by today's standards, but we also, at that lab, had supercomputers and, you know, some of these computers had less computing power than my smartphone does now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting: the analogy you made between computers and what your smartphone can do now."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.683774016292901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "(interposing) But it's also on my sheet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm an electrical engineer by training. And I've seen massive change in computer technology in my career. I was working in the Navy in the early days of the internet, and we would have this massive minicomputer that will fill this entire room almost. And that was our connection to the internet. And people would access the minicomputer by dial-in modem. Seems almost primitive by today's standards, but we also, at that lab, had supercomputers and, you know, some of these computers had less computing power than my smartphone does now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting: the analogy you made between computers and what your smartphone can do now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in fact, the Android smartphones run the Linux operating system, which was the same one, Unix, Linux, same operating system these massive old computers used to run like 30 years ago, so the more things change, the more they stay the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More broadly speaking, what other changes have you witnessed at your time at NARA?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.648637795881001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm an electrical engineer by training. And I've seen massive change in computer technology in my career. I was working in the Navy in the early days of the internet, and we would have this massive minicomputer that will fill this entire room almost. And that was our connection to the internet. And people would access the minicomputer by dial-in modem. Seems almost primitive by today's standards, but we also, at that lab, had supercomputers and, you know, some of these computers had less computing power than my smartphone does now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting: the analogy you made between computers and what your smartphone can do now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in fact, the Android smartphones run the Linux operating system, which was the same one, Unix, Linux, same operating system these massive old computers used to run like 30 years ago, so the more things change, the more they stay the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More broadly speaking, what other changes have you witnessed at your time at NARA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've seen one sort of constant change is the need to acquire more storage space for analog records, and that was a priority when I first came here, seven years, even though I was working more on the electronic side, but it remains a big challenge today and we're constantly looking for ways to acquire new space to store analog records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you involved with any other professional organization such as SAA or OAH or any of those those?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.72070866209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in fact, the Android smartphones run the Linux operating system, which was the same one, Unix, Linux, same operating system these massive old computers used to run like 30 years ago, so the more things change, the more they stay the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More broadly speaking, what other changes have you witnessed at your time at NARA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've seen one sort of constant change is the need to acquire more storage space for analog records, and that was a priority when I first came here, seven years, even though I was working more on the electronic side, but it remains a big challenge today and we're constantly looking for ways to acquire new space to store analog records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you involved with any other professional organization such as SAA or OAH or any of those those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to any great degree. I have attended some of the conferences though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you attended any particularly interesting conferences for your work here?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.578565180100002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've seen one sort of constant change is the need to acquire more storage space for analog records, and that was a priority when I first came here, seven years, even though I was working more on the electronic side, but it remains a big challenge today and we're constantly looking for ways to acquire new space to store analog records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you involved with any other professional organization such as SAA or OAH or any of those those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to any great degree. I have attended some of the conferences though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you attended any particularly interesting conferences for your work here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah I've actually attended some of the sort of forward-looking technological symposiums that discussed new approaches to electronic archives such as the LOCKSS approach: Lots Of Copies Keep Stuff Safe. Which, we propose an electronic archives that is in many geographical locations and data are simply copied from one spinning disk—one array of spinning disks to another array of spinning disks in a different geographical location and perhaps you wouldn’t even need to keep the data on tape because you have so many electronic copies scattered throughout the country. So, I've heard some really interesting approaches to electronic archives. We've also I will also say that I've also seen some interesting innovative approaches to traditional archives as well, in particular the Library of Congress facility up in Fort Meade, Maryland, which was quite interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how would those-- I don’t really understand it, but that's okay. Those spinning reels and the changes in geography, how would that affect daily operations, let's say, in the research room?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.531739089000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to any great degree. I have attended some of the conferences though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you attended any particularly interesting conferences for your work here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah I've actually attended some of the sort of forward-looking technological symposiums that discussed new approaches to electronic archives such as the LOCKSS approach: Lots Of Copies Keep Stuff Safe. Which, we propose an electronic archives that is in many geographical locations and data are simply copied from one spinning disk—one array of spinning disks to another array of spinning disks in a different geographical location and perhaps you wouldn’t even need to keep the data on tape because you have so many electronic copies scattered throughout the country. So, I've heard some really interesting approaches to electronic archives. We've also I will also say that I've also seen some interesting innovative approaches to traditional archives as well, in particular the Library of Congress facility up in Fort Meade, Maryland, which was quite interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how would those-- I don’t really understand it, but that's okay. Those spinning reels and the changes in geography, how would that affect daily operations, let's say, in the research room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the current operations in the research room is original—original records are presented to researchers and they have the option of coping those original records. If the original record is electronic, then the access copy is electronic, and my thing—I'm not an archivist, nor do I claim to be an archivist, but my feeling is that that has to result in less wear and tear on the original, particularly if you can get into a mode where your access copy is electronic; whether the preservation copy is paper or digital, you have less wear and tear on the original."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. How do you view your time overall at NARA?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.590821210000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah I've actually attended some of the sort of forward-looking technological symposiums that discussed new approaches to electronic archives such as the LOCKSS approach: Lots Of Copies Keep Stuff Safe. Which, we propose an electronic archives that is in many geographical locations and data are simply copied from one spinning disk—one array of spinning disks to another array of spinning disks in a different geographical location and perhaps you wouldn’t even need to keep the data on tape because you have so many electronic copies scattered throughout the country. So, I've heard some really interesting approaches to electronic archives. We've also I will also say that I've also seen some interesting innovative approaches to traditional archives as well, in particular the Library of Congress facility up in Fort Meade, Maryland, which was quite interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how would those-- I don’t really understand it, but that's okay. Those spinning reels and the changes in geography, how would that affect daily operations, let's say, in the research room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the current operations in the research room is original—original records are presented to researchers and they have the option of coping those original records. If the original record is electronic, then the access copy is electronic, and my thing—I'm not an archivist, nor do I claim to be an archivist, but my feeling is that that has to result in less wear and tear on the original, particularly if you can get into a mode where your access copy is electronic; whether the preservation copy is paper or digital, you have less wear and tear on the original."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. How do you view your time overall at NARA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very positive. I've had a lot of opportunities working here that I wouldn't have otherwise. I think, in particular, a big benefit of working at NARA is its status as a mid-sized to small independent agency, and so you're able to participate in a lot of activities that you may not be able to participate in a larger cabinet-level agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some examples of those activities?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.545356900000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the current operations in the research room is original—original records are presented to researchers and they have the option of coping those original records. If the original record is electronic, then the access copy is electronic, and my thing—I'm not an archivist, nor do I claim to be an archivist, but my feeling is that that has to result in less wear and tear on the original, particularly if you can get into a mode where your access copy is electronic; whether the preservation copy is paper or digital, you have less wear and tear on the original."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. How do you view your time overall at NARA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very positive. I've had a lot of opportunities working here that I wouldn't have otherwise. I think, in particular, a big benefit of working at NARA is its status as a mid-sized to small independent agency, and so you're able to participate in a lot of activities that you may not be able to participate in a larger cabinet-level agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some examples of those activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "well, interactions with OMB, interactions with the Hill, interactions with the GAO (Government Accountability Office) and other things like that that might in a larger agency be handled in the headquarters by political appointees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you speak to your significant contributions to the National Archives such as the ERA or the historic preservation field?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.494841000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very positive. I've had a lot of opportunities working here that I wouldn't have otherwise. I think, in particular, a big benefit of working at NARA is its status as a mid-sized to small independent agency, and so you're able to participate in a lot of activities that you may not be able to participate in a larger cabinet-level agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some examples of those activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "well, interactions with OMB, interactions with the Hill, interactions with the GAO (Government Accountability Office) and other things like that that might in a larger agency be handled in the headquarters by political appointees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you speak to your significant contributions to the National Archives such as the ERA or the historic preservation field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think a big contribution was the oversight of the NAE II project that really-"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "(interposing) Can you define what did that acronym stand for one more time?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.216490000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "well, interactions with OMB, interactions with the Hill, interactions with the GAO (Government Accountability Office) and other things like that that might in a larger agency be handled in the headquarters by political appointees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you speak to your significant contributions to the National Archives such as the ERA or the historic preservation field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think a big contribution was the oversight of the NAE II project that really-"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "(interposing) Can you define what did that acronym stand for one more time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "National Archives Experience, Phase II, which at a visitor orientation plaza in the National Archives Building it provided the Rubenstein Gallery, which houses Magna Carta, and I think it just makes the museum portion of the building work much better. Much more user friendly, much more inviting to guests. I think it increases the throughput of the museum, it makes the learning easier and natural for visitors with the Rubenstein Gallery, and overall I think it has been a very big improvement to a very historic and important building on the Washington mall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "what year did you say that was?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.796100000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think a big contribution was the oversight of the NAE II project that really-"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "(interposing) Can you define what did that acronym stand for one more time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "National Archives Experience, Phase II, which at a visitor orientation plaza in the National Archives Building it provided the Rubenstein Gallery, which houses Magna Carta, and I think it just makes the museum portion of the building work much better. Much more user friendly, much more inviting to guests. I think it increases the throughput of the museum, it makes the learning easier and natural for visitors with the Rubenstein Gallery, and overall I think it has been a very big improvement to a very historic and important building on the Washington mall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "what year did you say that was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was completed about 2 years ago, I think, in about 2013."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does that include the Public Vaults?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.329000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "National Archives Experience, Phase II, which at a visitor orientation plaza in the National Archives Building it provided the Rubenstein Gallery, which houses Magna Carta, and I think it just makes the museum portion of the building work much better. Much more user friendly, much more inviting to guests. I think it increases the throughput of the museum, it makes the learning easier and natural for visitors with the Rubenstein Gallery, and overall I think it has been a very big improvement to a very historic and important building on the Washington mall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "what year did you say that was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was completed about 2 years ago, I think, in about 2013."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does that include the Public Vaults?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the public vaults were existing were actually part of the NAE I, the original National Archives Experience renovation, part of the original renovation of the building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was that, the first preservation?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.8100000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was completed about 2 years ago, I think, in about 2013."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does that include the Public Vaults?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the public vaults were existing were actually part of the NAE I, the original National Archives Experience renovation, part of the original renovation of the building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was that, the first preservation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was before my time. I believe it was about 10 or 12 years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where will you be going next?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the public vaults were existing were actually part of the NAE I, the original National Archives Experience renovation, part of the original renovation of the building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was that, the first preservation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was before my time. I believe it was about 10 or 12 years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where will you be going next?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I will be retired for one day on Sunday on the July 26 and I will start a new job with the Harris Corporation on Monday, July 27."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To what extent has the National Archives influenced that move?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00009:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was before my time. I believe it was about 10 or 12 years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where will you be going next?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I will be retired for one day on Sunday on the July 26 and I will start a new job with the Harris Corporation on Monday, July 27."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To what extent has the National Archives influenced that move?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I basically got a very nice offer from a private-sector firm and I happened to be able to retire, so it was just a good move. And I like to not stay in the same place for too long. I think seven years is a pretty good run here at the National Archives, and I really appreciate the opportunities I’ve had to advance my career here and learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time, and do you have anything you would like to add to the interview such as anecdotes or words of wisdom?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00151:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.244641675825694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, plus it keeps you in sequence on stuff. Plus, there's a certain way that all everybody answers the same questions in the same sequence or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is the first one is, why did you come? Why did you join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I joined the Peace Corps because I had worked on Robert Kennedy's campaign and was actually at work that night watching the returns from California. And when I saw him shot and killed, I was devastated and felt like I just needed to get out of the country and do something constructive, that the America that was there that time was not something that I recognized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you joined the Peace Corps, can you give us a little background about just growing up, your education and experiences that might be relevant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a three year scholarship to a diploma School of Nursing in Danbury, Connecticut, had graduated in 1962, had started out on a medicine floor and segued to over to Danbury Hospital's emergency room, which was a fledgling process at that time. It was one of the few emergency rooms that it opened in Connecticut. I was lucky enough while I was working in the emergency room to be part of their team that was set up and did the disaster program and part of the original team that was put together to learn how to do and respond to cardiac arrests in the hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, I mean, so that whole cardiac arrest procedure was all developing during the ‘60s, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00151:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.38293519536188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I joined the Peace Corps because I had worked on Robert Kennedy's campaign and was actually at work that night watching the returns from California. And when I saw him shot and killed, I was devastated and felt like I just needed to get out of the country and do something constructive, that the America that was there that time was not something that I recognized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you joined the Peace Corps, can you give us a little background about just growing up, your education and experiences that might be relevant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a three year scholarship to a diploma School of Nursing in Danbury, Connecticut, had graduated in 1962, had started out on a medicine floor and segued to over to Danbury Hospital's emergency room, which was a fledgling process at that time. It was one of the few emergency rooms that it opened in Connecticut. I was lucky enough while I was working in the emergency room to be part of their team that was set up and did the disaster program and part of the original team that was put together to learn how to do and respond to cardiac arrests in the hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, I mean, so that whole cardiac arrest procedure was all developing during the ‘60s, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I remember the great big huge defibrillators were like the size of small mini refrigerators and everything. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you hear about the Peace Corps and the process and timing? How did that go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00151:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.314372439290977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a three year scholarship to a diploma School of Nursing in Danbury, Connecticut, had graduated in 1962, had started out on a medicine floor and segued to over to Danbury Hospital's emergency room, which was a fledgling process at that time. It was one of the few emergency rooms that it opened in Connecticut. I was lucky enough while I was working in the emergency room to be part of their team that was set up and did the disaster program and part of the original team that was put together to learn how to do and respond to cardiac arrests in the hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, I mean, so that whole cardiac arrest procedure was all developing during the ‘60s, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I remember the great big huge defibrillators were like the size of small mini refrigerators and everything. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you hear about the Peace Corps and the process and timing? How did that go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My brother was in the Peace Corps in Thailand at the time. He told me that he was having a great time. He thought it was an answer to my frustration with where things were going in America. So I applied to the Peace Corps I put in for Afghanistan and Micronesia got notified that surprise. We have an opening in Honduras and you have to leave within two weeks. Here's your list. And signed the piece of paper and prepped myself to leave for Honduras, which I had to look up on a map to find out where it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds a little bit like you were more eager to go than to be picky about your country, right? Yeah. Yeah. And. So what it sounds like you reacted when you were accepted by getting ready to go, looking it up in the map. What did your friends and family have to say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00151:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.46041382143442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I remember the great big huge defibrillators were like the size of small mini refrigerators and everything. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you hear about the Peace Corps and the process and timing? How did that go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My brother was in the Peace Corps in Thailand at the time. He told me that he was having a great time. He thought it was an answer to my frustration with where things were going in America. So I applied to the Peace Corps I put in for Afghanistan and Micronesia got notified that surprise. We have an opening in Honduras and you have to leave within two weeks. Here's your list. And signed the piece of paper and prepped myself to leave for Honduras, which I had to look up on a map to find out where it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds a little bit like you were more eager to go than to be picky about your country, right? Yeah. Yeah. And. So what it sounds like you reacted when you were accepted by getting ready to go, looking it up in the map. What did your friends and family have to say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my friends and family, my family's always been people that have been very involved. My mom was someone who raised all of us to believe that silence was condonement and we were always affected. My mom raised all of us to believe that silence was condonement. So that you were expected to give back to your community and to your family and to others in greater need than you. And it just seemed like a good fit for me at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she didn't mind having two children in the Peace Corps at the same time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00151:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.84490424603824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My brother was in the Peace Corps in Thailand at the time. He told me that he was having a great time. He thought it was an answer to my frustration with where things were going in America. So I applied to the Peace Corps I put in for Afghanistan and Micronesia got notified that surprise. We have an opening in Honduras and you have to leave within two weeks. Here's your list. And signed the piece of paper and prepped myself to leave for Honduras, which I had to look up on a map to find out where it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds a little bit like you were more eager to go than to be picky about your country, right? Yeah. Yeah. And. So what it sounds like you reacted when you were accepted by getting ready to go, looking it up in the map. What did your friends and family have to say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my friends and family, my family's always been people that have been very involved. My mom was someone who raised all of us to believe that silence was condonement and we were always affected. My mom raised all of us to believe that silence was condonement. So that you were expected to give back to your community and to your family and to others in greater need than you. And it just seemed like a good fit for me at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she didn't mind having two children in the Peace Corps at the same time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she was actually. It was, they. She used to say that she had six kids and she couldn't travel. So what she did was she sent her kids out to travel and report back to her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a great, great attitude. I think I remember reading your mother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll talk a little bit about training without talking all day about. And who did the training and what was covered in the technical training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00151:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.4943380511536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my friends and family, my family's always been people that have been very involved. My mom was someone who raised all of us to believe that silence was condonement and we were always affected. My mom raised all of us to believe that silence was condonement. So that you were expected to give back to your community and to your family and to others in greater need than you. And it just seemed like a good fit for me at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she didn't mind having two children in the Peace Corps at the same time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she was actually. It was, they. She used to say that she had six kids and she couldn't travel. So what she did was she sent her kids out to travel and report back to her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a great, great attitude. I think I remember reading your mother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll talk a little bit about training without talking all day about. And who did the training and what was covered in the technical training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the training was kind of loosey goosey, if I remember well. I mean, we had the open air classrooms. They basically concentrated on a lot of the cultural issues in Honduras and the language skills that we would need to go in country. As far as any nursing preparation or any indication for what it would be like to be a nurse in the country of Honduras was not there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So any of the strengths about the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00151:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.43815339017067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she was actually. It was, they. She used to say that she had six kids and she couldn't travel. So what she did was she sent her kids out to travel and report back to her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a great, great attitude. I think I remember reading your mother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll talk a little bit about training without talking all day about. And who did the training and what was covered in the technical training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the training was kind of loosey goosey, if I remember well. I mean, we had the open air classrooms. They basically concentrated on a lot of the cultural issues in Honduras and the language skills that we would need to go in country. As far as any nursing preparation or any indication for what it would be like to be a nurse in the country of Honduras was not there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So any of the strengths about the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the camaraderie that they build by having people, the volunteers live in the dormitories where you literally had to share everything. You had to rely on each other for a lot of things that you could share your backgrounds and talk with each other was huge. I think there was an amazing bond with this group that I hadn't seen. There were other groups and training at the time, but ours seem to be one that for some reason the chemistry was just right for this group and for everybody in the group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how in terms of interacting with other volunteers in and host country people during training, let's talk about the other volunteers, because you already mentioned it was a very strong bond. Any particular picture you could draw of that or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00151:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 31.597948211300743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the training was kind of loosey goosey, if I remember well. I mean, we had the open air classrooms. They basically concentrated on a lot of the cultural issues in Honduras and the language skills that we would need to go in country. As far as any nursing preparation or any indication for what it would be like to be a nurse in the country of Honduras was not there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So any of the strengths about the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the camaraderie that they build by having people, the volunteers live in the dormitories where you literally had to share everything. You had to rely on each other for a lot of things that you could share your backgrounds and talk with each other was huge. I think there was an amazing bond with this group that I hadn't seen. There were other groups and training at the time, but ours seem to be one that for some reason the chemistry was just right for this group and for everybody in the group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how in terms of interacting with other volunteers in and host country people during training, let's talk about the other volunteers, because you already mentioned it was a very strong bond. Any particular picture you could draw of that or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we all had an ability we stayed up at night and a lot of times in the tienda and talked about everything and what we wanted to do. And I think we all had certain reservations about going into the country. But I I saw a lot of independence and a lot of commitment from all of the other members in my group. At the same time, we had a hell of a good time with each other. And I think that went a long way to, you know, a lot of discussion about what were we getting ourselves into and what the heck was going to happen when we got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go flip ahead a little bit about your entry into the country, and you can give as many as, you know, word pictures of what was the initial reaction to the people, the physical environment, the town, your coworkers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00151:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.973705549917298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Day by day and day by day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you, so you didn't have actually another nurse co?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were I had no coworker and no other nurse. I was the hardest thing to deal with was the sense of being isolated from any support system. Obviously at that time there were no cell phones. Their TVs were like every now and then somebody would have a television, electricity would go off at night. They would gradually just starting at nine o'clock, you would see the lights just started dimming everywhere. You would know that the electricity was going to be cut off. I had a decent place to live. The local agricultural director, Keoni Lewis, was my landlord. And the barrio women were very kind to me and very helpful to me, but the physical working conditions at the hospital were a real challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the barrio women, people who wouldn't understand what a barrio was and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The neighborhood that I lived. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And any more about the physical environment of the hospital because?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00151:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 17.343118599999997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I looked at the Peace Corps. The problem was that during this time, I had been a political activist and with Richard Nixon in power, I had refused to come home until he was out of office. Mm hmm. So on my way back from my one year of traveling through Central and South America, I ran into two Peace Corps, all retired Peace Corps volunteers who were opening up a Peace Corps training center in Costa Rica. And they offered me the job as the Peace Corps trainer for the women in their program and as the nurse for the program, the training center. And I took that job. And then and that was in Costa Rica, which was a perfect way to segue from Honduras to Costa Rica, made my reentry back into the states a lot easier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long were you in that job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two years. And overall, how do you see so this is a little three part question. So how would you assess your service in light of three goals of Peace Corps? A is to provide technical assistance where requested. B is to promote better understanding of Americans, and C, is to promote better understanding of other people by Americans. So flip to A and think of that a little bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Read that to me again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To provide technical assistance where requested."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00151:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.14, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I have gone back to do medsearch missions in San Pedro Sula with a group called Casa Corazón, which was out of Pennsylvania. We worked out of Maria Carranza's hospital in San Pedro Sula. We went down to put in shunts for the babies and children with hydrocephalus. We were down there in two oh nine. Unfortunately, with the political climate, the couple of times we've tried to go back again, we have not been able to go back because of the political climate. However, I remain friends with Dr. Ian Miller, who is the head of the neuro surgical unit at the hospital, and we continue to cooperate with her. We try to help her financially. If there's any specific piece of equipment or something that they need, we're happy to stay in contact and help out however we can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, here's the big bucket one boy, what no. You're very eloquent. It's what has been the effect of Peace Corps service on your life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it's fair to say, like most of us, that it was a seminal point in our life. I think it was a, it's a focal point that we refer back to frequently. I think the friendships that I made in the Peace Corps, for instance, coming back to my fiftieth reunion here, not having seen people in 50 years, it was like I just saw them. The camaraderie and they shared experiences that you have in that process also gave me a sense of that. Nobody can threaten me with anything anymore. You want to take away my money, you want to take away my house, you want to, you know, been there, done that, survived. And it makes you want to continue the fight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Am I hearing Donna Summer in the background here, We Will Survive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very good. Is there anything else you'd like to add?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00151:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very good. Is there anything else you'd like to add?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For all of the ups and downs and everything, I'd really like to thank the Peace Corps for the ability for hiring me and taking me on in the first place. Maybe in retrospect, there nonsupport was actually the best thing they could have done for me, because you have to learn to improvise. You have to learn how to make do you have to learn how to survive conditions that you didn't think that you could. The friendships that you make and that shared experience is something that is absolutely unique. There's no way that anybody who did not go through that experience can possibly understand your references and what you say. But I think it has a. I'm, I'm stunned at the number of volunteers who come back, who continue to do good for their country and to do good for other people. I mean, I'll bet 80 to 90 percent of them have stayed on and contribute positively and one way or another to making the world a better place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Perfecto."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's true, Gall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, no, we have a great group of compatriots here."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00151:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For all of the ups and downs and everything, I'd really like to thank the Peace Corps for the ability for hiring me and taking me on in the first place. Maybe in retrospect, there nonsupport was actually the best thing they could have done for me, because you have to learn to improvise. You have to learn how to make do you have to learn how to survive conditions that you didn't think that you could. The friendships that you make and that shared experience is something that is absolutely unique. There's no way that anybody who did not go through that experience can possibly understand your references and what you say. But I think it has a. I'm, I'm stunned at the number of volunteers who come back, who continue to do good for their country and to do good for other people. I mean, I'll bet 80 to 90 percent of them have stayed on and contribute positively and one way or another to making the world a better place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Perfecto."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's true, Gall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, no, we have a great group of compatriots here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, my brother's tie group, you know, they still get together and they still have their. They just had their 50th year reunion earlier this year. Yeah, he went in like a couple of months before I did. Yeah, and they talk almost the same way that you and I do with their experiences and what it was like. And of course, they're the cultural was very different. That was an Asian culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I know you couldn't read any signs on the road or anything like that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.256708846418746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was about a year out of, uh, university. Um, I had gone, I had gone through University of Texas at San Antonio, graduated, and then I moved back to D.C., where I grew up, and I was working. And, um, it wasn't something, I wasn't doing anything that I necessarily wanted to do. Uh, and I knew that I wanted to, like I said, travel and do something international. So, um, I looked into the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you talk about doing something international, was that interest as a result of something you had encountered when you were younger, growing up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, in a way. I had always wanted to travel and I wasn't able to. Uh, it was very difficult for me to get a passport. So I had never gotten a passport before Peace Corps. It actually, it took Peace Corps calling the State Department, who ended up calling INS to even get me a passport in the first place. So, uh, part of that was, um, part of the reason why I never really traveled out of the country was that. And, um, obviously, at that time, I couldn't afford to go anywhere. Um, so the Peace Corps was also, they gave me the ability to, to, you know, it wasn't. A lot of the other programs that are similar to Peace Corps, they ask for X amount of money and I didn't have any money. Um, so it was one of those opportunities that it was kind of for everyone, you know, even people who didn't have X amount of money to, to pay for, for a trip could, could go do. So that was a big factor in me being able to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, so from the time you had your first, or you put in your application and had your first interview, it was about 18 months before you were, had been accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, you know, they sent you an invitation to serve. Um, now, did you have a particular country or project in mind when you applied?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.76666490842668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I heard Malawi. So my first thought was, where is Malawi? Um, I knew Malawi was a country in sub-Saharan Africa, but I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know where necessarily it was or, or what the culture was like, obviously. Um, so I looked it up, did just normal Wikipedia, Google, YouTube kind of things, looked it up. I was pretty excited because I was not looking forward to, uh, cold weather. I don't do well in cold weather. And that was something that made me nervous about the Ukraine, uh, where Malawi's quite the opposite. It was pretty much hot everywhere, uh, which I do well in. So from a climate perspective, I was, I was interested. Also, I was interested that, um, I knew that there wasn't going to be too many other business development people with me, so I thought that would make it a little more interesting because it'd be just a little different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. Um, what did your friends and family think of your decision to go to Malawi for two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honestly?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I did not get too much support. Uh, people weren't really. Most people tried to talk me out of it. Um, it was, it was mostly I got, I got comments like, that's what rich people go do, you know? And when you come from a less affluent background, you're not expected to do stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. That's interesting that, you know, your, um, folks around you thought that Peace Corps was kind of a, um, a thing that the, the wealthier classes did."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.629627676029646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honestly?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I did not get too much support. Uh, people weren't really. Most people tried to talk me out of it. Um, it was, it was mostly I got, I got comments like, that's what rich people go do, you know? And when you come from a less affluent background, you're not expected to do stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. That's interesting that, you know, your, um, folks around you thought that Peace Corps was kind of a, um, a thing that the, the wealthier classes did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I was expected to go get a job, 9 to 5, make money, kind of, you know, which all makes sense. I'm not saying it wasn't, you know, bad advice, but it was not exactly what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, uh, in getting yourself ready to go to Malawi, what kind of, what kind of process did you, did you do, besides the research?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.699586306699604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I did not get too much support. Uh, people weren't really. Most people tried to talk me out of it. Um, it was, it was mostly I got, I got comments like, that's what rich people go do, you know? And when you come from a less affluent background, you're not expected to do stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. That's interesting that, you know, your, um, folks around you thought that Peace Corps was kind of a, um, a thing that the, the wealthier classes did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I was expected to go get a job, 9 to 5, make money, kind of, you know, which all makes sense. I'm not saying it wasn't, you know, bad advice, but it was not exactly what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, uh, in getting yourself ready to go to Malawi, what kind of, what kind of process did you, did you do, besides the research?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually, and this is where I feel like I do kind of differ from a lot of people. I wanted it to be a very, um. I want to be, I didn't want to go in with any notions or, or, uh, perceptions. So I did very little bit of research on the Peace Corps and very little bit of research on Malawi. I went in as blank as I could because I wanted to get everything as an experience, rather than judging it based off of what I had read. So I actually, and to this day, I still feel like for me that was the best way of approaching it, because everything was very new and interesting. And when I spoke with other people in my group, they were saying, oh well, I read this book, so I was expecting this, and or I watched these videos, so I was expecting that where for me, everything was greenfield. Everything was like clean slate. And I got to just enjoy things moment by moment rather than comparing it to, you know what, my expectations of what Malawi was going to be like were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Makes sense to me."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.999540340777337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I was expected to go get a job, 9 to 5, make money, kind of, you know, which all makes sense. I'm not saying it wasn't, you know, bad advice, but it was not exactly what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, uh, in getting yourself ready to go to Malawi, what kind of, what kind of process did you, did you do, besides the research?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually, and this is where I feel like I do kind of differ from a lot of people. I wanted it to be a very, um. I want to be, I didn't want to go in with any notions or, or, uh, perceptions. So I did very little bit of research on the Peace Corps and very little bit of research on Malawi. I went in as blank as I could because I wanted to get everything as an experience, rather than judging it based off of what I had read. So I actually, and to this day, I still feel like for me that was the best way of approaching it, because everything was very new and interesting. And when I spoke with other people in my group, they were saying, oh well, I read this book, so I was expecting this, and or I watched these videos, so I was expecting that where for me, everything was greenfield. Everything was like clean slate. And I got to just enjoy things moment by moment rather than comparing it to, you know what, my expectations of what Malawi was going to be like were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Makes sense to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And instead of going in with a lot of preconceived notions, you just went in with an open."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.55504482308593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually, and this is where I feel like I do kind of differ from a lot of people. I wanted it to be a very, um. I want to be, I didn't want to go in with any notions or, or, uh, perceptions. So I did very little bit of research on the Peace Corps and very little bit of research on Malawi. I went in as blank as I could because I wanted to get everything as an experience, rather than judging it based off of what I had read. So I actually, and to this day, I still feel like for me that was the best way of approaching it, because everything was very new and interesting. And when I spoke with other people in my group, they were saying, oh well, I read this book, so I was expecting this, and or I watched these videos, so I was expecting that where for me, everything was greenfield. Everything was like clean slate. And I got to just enjoy things moment by moment rather than comparing it to, you know what, my expectations of what Malawi was going to be like were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Makes sense to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And instead of going in with a lot of preconceived notions, you just went in with an open."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Attitude and mind. Um. How long was it between the time you got your invitation and, and when you made up your mind that you were going to accept?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.394494247873254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And instead of going in with a lot of preconceived notions, you just went in with an open."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Attitude and mind. Um. How long was it between the time you got your invitation and, and when you made up your mind that you were going to accept?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The moment I applied, I was going to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you got accepted."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 30.438326942081392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Attitude and mind. Um. How long was it between the time you got your invitation and, and when you made up your mind that you were going to accept?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The moment I applied, I was going to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you got accepted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I got accepted. That's, that's the way I tend to work, is I'll make a decision to do something and then I will follow through on that. Uh, so I knew I was going to go when I got my invitation. Like I said, I was a little, I thought there was a mistake at first, but once I got that all cleared out, which was, you know, the next day or so, um, I knew I was going to accept and go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So now you're, um, staging, I guess, and meeting up with, were there others in the group that were going to go over to training with you, or were you on your own?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 29.375918824534878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The moment I applied, I was going to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you got accepted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I got accepted. That's, that's the way I tend to work, is I'll make a decision to do something and then I will follow through on that. Uh, so I knew I was going to go when I got my invitation. Like I said, I was a little, I thought there was a mistake at first, but once I got that all cleared out, which was, you know, the next day or so, um, I knew I was going to accept and go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So now you're, um, staging, I guess, and meeting up with, were there others in the group that were going to go over to training with you, or were you on your own?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we all met up in Philadelphia for, I want to say, three days, uh, just to get, uh, paperwork done. I think we had to get a couple of vaccines. Um, I don't quite remember everything you had to do. I think there was, I think it was mostly used as an orientation. So people were talking about, you know, particular rules for, any organization you join usually has an orientation day or two. So it was no different than that. Uh, so I actually flew up from DC to Philadelphia with someone else. I saw a woman get on the plane with like, a huge bag and, you know, all that. And I asked her, because the plane was like half empty, I asked her if she was going to the Peace Corps, and she said yes. So we sat next to each other and we talked the whole way up, and we ended up being in the same group and went to Malawi together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great, indeed. Um, so after your three days of orientation in Philadelphia, you, you took wing and, uh, what was your, um, you know, what was your travel itinerary? I'm assuming there was not a direct flight."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 23.861231899837215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's very hot. And I had lived in San Antonio, um, which is not by any means a cool city. Uh, but I didn't expect it to be quite that hot. Um, and just, uh, you know, you get off of runway, right? And you're walking, you're walking across, like, maybe 200 meters of some runway into this shabby concrete building that is like the international airport of Malawi. And you're thinking like, oh, okay. Like, I've never seen an airport like this, you know? And you're just, I feel like you're, I was always kind of surprised because, like, I understood that Malawi being the poorest, least developed nation in the world is not going to have like running water and electricity in homes.\n\nBut to not have things like that in airports was surprising, you know, like. And of course, the Lilongwe airport has electricity and running water. But to have it be so bare and have it be so, uh, opposite of what you'd think of an airport in America with, like, bustling and clean and efficient. And it was the opposite of all that was just very, uh, very interesting to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Welcome to Africa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Welcome to Malawi. Uh, did you have a Peace Corps representative meeting the group at the airport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually really nice. We had a couple of staff members who got there, but we also, Malawi also did, um, and I don't know if they do it still, but they did at the time when I was there, was they would have volunteers who are currently serving, uh, whoever just happened to be in Lilongwe that day, I think. They would come to the airport and they would cheer for you when you got off the plane. So when we got off the plane, there was this bunch of people cheering for us, which was really nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was good. That was good. So describe where you were trained, the physical site."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.353500838038732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I stayed with a family. It was a mother, a father, two daughters who were maybe 14 and 12-ish, and a young boy maybe 3 or 4. Um, again, they, they were very, very funny, I'll say, for, for the Chewa people. Uh, that's the tribe that lives in that area. Uh, they were, they are very, very funny people. Everything's a joke. And even if you don't, if, even if you can't say a punchline, you can still be humorous. And they were just all, like the kids were funny. The parents were funny.\n\nI never learned their names. I stayed with them for like eight weeks, and every time they said their name, it was something different. You know, it was an English name because they were trying to be nice to me, but it was always like a biblical English name. So one day the daughter's name is Mary, but the next day it's, you know, you know, a different. I don't know my, I don't know the Bible, but it was just a different, like biblical name because they were just trying to give me a nickname to call them. But the result was I never knew their names. And I know it really wasn't that important, right? Because you call the father \"father,\" you call the mother \"mother,\" you call the girls \"sister\" and you call the boy \"brother.\" So it wasn't that big of a deal not to know their names. But I always thought that was funny. That I live with a family for eight weeks and never learned their names."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is interesting. But, um, they would provide you with a different name each day, and they weren't particularly committed to the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then the next day they just chose a different one that I could call them if I wanted to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. Well, they obviously had some biblical exposure, I guess."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.37469239264041, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then the next day they just chose a different one that I could call them if I wanted to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. Well, they obviously had some biblical exposure, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And they were having fun with me. Like I said, they're a joking, fun culture. So they were also just, that was part of the humor of the situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And then you, did you have to walk back to the college for the actual?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, so the, the training villages were, I would say like 10 or 15k from the college. So they would pick us up in busses and bring us back to the college if need be. I think we went back to the, if I'm remembering correctly, I think like every Wednesday we went back to the college. Um, but for the most part we stayed in our training villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what kind of training were you getting in the training village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.25828107612391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chichewa, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because that happens to be the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's like 60 percent of the people in Malawi are Chewa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The tribe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The tribe Chewa. Uh, and then the rest are, uh, then the rest are just kind of broken up. I think maybe 20 percent Tumbuka. And then it gets into like five, 10 percent for the rest of the tribes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. When you weren't in class at the university, when you were in your training village, specifically with the family, you know, what was it? What was it like around the dinner table?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.635240170894543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sauce. Yes. Um, or you might have some greens. So the greens are always boiled, so, so it'd be boiled, um, mustard greens or boiled, um, uh, pumpkin leaves or something along those lines. Well, when you're cooking, you're only cooking one thing at a time. So the nsima must be hot. So the nsima is the last thing you cook. So the first thing you cook is usually the greens. So when you're eating, the nsima is boiling hot in your hand. But the greens are always like ice cold by the time you're eating. So one thing I learned was, if you grab the nsima and it's too hot, you can always stick your hands in the greens to cool, cool your fingers down.\n\nUm, so, but again, it's, my family didn't have any electricity or anything, so it's. We might have like turned on like one little flashlight or like maybe there's a candle in the corner burning. But you really can't see anything, so you kind of feel around for a bowl, and then you kind of just like, you try to figure out what's in the bowl, and that's kind of how you eat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sounds like a very informal dining."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And it's a, it's a very family orientated culture. So. So the thought of eating your plate while someone else eats their plate is very strange."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was family style dining in the best sense of the word."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right there on the floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh, do you have a favorite memory of training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.78225906248215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But it was also the situation where they were teaching me the language of where I was going, not where I was staying, which makes a lot of sense. It was just while I was staying there, it was unfortunate. I did, I was able to join the soccer team for the village of my training village, um, which was fun. I got to, got to play soccer with the guys and it was just, it was a good time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do, in the, in the training village, they were speaking Chichewa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were Chewa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were Chewa."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.545998842570555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were Chewa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were Chewa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the whole country for the most part, I mean, when you get out into the bush, the people only speak the language of their area. But for the most part the country all speaks Chichewa, but they'll also speak their language if they're Tumbuka or if they're, you know, Lomwe, or Tonga like my tribe. But this village, because they already spoke Chichewa, didn't speak any other language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. Um, okay. And um, so what was the length of the training period again?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.162220936189506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the whole country for the most part, I mean, when you get out into the bush, the people only speak the language of their area. But for the most part the country all speaks Chichewa, but they'll also speak their language if they're Tumbuka or if they're, you know, Lomwe, or Tonga like my tribe. But this village, because they already spoke Chichewa, didn't speak any other language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. Um, okay. And um, so what was the length of the training period again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About two months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And, uh, what happened after training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 27.958023262432782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the whole country for the most part, I mean, when you get out into the bush, the people only speak the language of their area. But for the most part the country all speaks Chichewa, but they'll also speak their language if they're Tumbuka or if they're, you know, Lomwe, or Tonga like my tribe. But this village, because they already spoke Chichewa, didn't speak any other language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. Um, okay. And um, so what was the length of the training period again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About two months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And, uh, what happened after training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So at the end of our training, we had a few days that we went to a site visit. So I went up to my village. I lived basically in the suburbs of a, of a provincial capital. So like a state capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What city? So what city was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.620025847147534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About two months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And, uh, what happened after training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So at the end of our training, we had a few days that we went to a site visit. So I went up to my village. I lived basically in the suburbs of a, of a provincial capital. So like a state capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What city? So what city was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was called Nkhata Bay. Uh, and if you ever want to Google it, it's absolutely beautiful. Um, it's, I always laugh about, it's kind of the Vegas of Malawi, but it's, um, it's on the lake, Lake Malawi. Um, and it's like a beach resort town, but it's also where 80 percent of the production of honey is in Malawi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you, you finished up training and you did a couple days orientation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.577806496830593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So at the end of our training, we had a few days that we went to a site visit. So I went up to my village. I lived basically in the suburbs of a, of a provincial capital. So like a state capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What city? So what city was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was called Nkhata Bay. Uh, and if you ever want to Google it, it's absolutely beautiful. Um, it's, I always laugh about, it's kind of the Vegas of Malawi, but it's, um, it's on the lake, Lake Malawi. Um, and it's like a beach resort town, but it's also where 80 percent of the production of honey is in Malawi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you, you finished up training and you did a couple days orientation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, did anybody bail from the training at the end before taking their assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.64200721870066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was called Nkhata Bay. Uh, and if you ever want to Google it, it's absolutely beautiful. Um, it's, I always laugh about, it's kind of the Vegas of Malawi, but it's, um, it's on the lake, Lake Malawi. Um, and it's like a beach resort town, but it's also where 80 percent of the production of honey is in Malawi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you, you finished up training and you did a couple days orientation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, did anybody bail from the training at the end before taking their assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if anyone bailed at the end. We had, we had someone not show up in Philadelphia. And we had someone who, her very first day in, uh, when we were all going to our, our training village, which is like five days into country. She left that day. She, she couldn't, she didn't want to deal with it. Um, and she had her, she had good reasons. Um, you know, it's not every, not every place is for everyone and everything like that. So she left. Uh, but I don't. I think after that, we, everyone swore in. We actually didn't have too many people leave. It was strange when someone eats heat out of our group. I think we only had maybe 4 or 5 the whole time out of like 50. That's really not too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I'd say that's a pretty high percentage of people that hang in there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 34.046674687445176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, did anybody bail from the training at the end before taking their assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if anyone bailed at the end. We had, we had someone not show up in Philadelphia. And we had someone who, her very first day in, uh, when we were all going to our, our training village, which is like five days into country. She left that day. She, she couldn't, she didn't want to deal with it. Um, and she had her, she had good reasons. Um, you know, it's not every, not every place is for everyone and everything like that. So she left. Uh, but I don't. I think after that, we, everyone swore in. We actually didn't have too many people leave. It was strange when someone eats heat out of our group. I think we only had maybe 4 or 5 the whole time out of like 50. That's really not too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I'd say that's a pretty high percentage of people that hang in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. Um, so tell me about, um, your reaction to, uh, Nkhata Bay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.891986888955323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just carries a few, like a little convenience store?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly. Maybe made out of some corrugated steel and some nailed up wood, but it wasn't like a full fledged grocery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you, uh, traveled around, what kind of mileage are you talking about? And did you have, uh, did the co-op own a truck?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The co-op did own a truck. So maybe half the time I traveled, I traveled with the co-op, and half the time I didn't. So it depended on what the situation was. If we were delivering or picking up supplies, we would have the truck and we would try to make the same route for both of those things. Because gas, gas in Malawi was not only very expensive, but very, very, very hard to come by for some economic reasons that I don't know if you want me to get into. Um, but, but gasoline in Malawi was running every month at a shortage. So finding gasoline, I once spent three days in the honey truck waiting for gasoline just to get home, because that happened sometimes. Um, so sometimes if I was just like, let's say, collecting money or negotiating price on something, I would, uh, just take public transport or hitchhike my way around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. And, uh. What does the countryside look like when you're traveling around in Malawi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 27.304057143074353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much older than I am. They were probably in their 40s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they, were they honey farmers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. They were everything. They were, so everyone in Malawi is a farmer. Everyone. The president's a farmer. Everyone's a farmer. Um, but yeah, they were both honey farmers. They were originals. Um, there was three but one fell off. And there was these two who were just like the original people who have been doing this for like ten years. But they also did other things, uh, the director also had a workshop, like a carpentry workshop. And, and I mean, they did other little things. So part of me was also just teaching them. There was so much opportunity to do stuff in Malawi. So part of me was to try to teach them just to see opportunity, because that's very important for a business person is not necessarily just to do your job, you know, well, but to see potential, opportunity, and other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you looked at your position as not just doing, but training them for the day when you were going to say goodbye and walk away, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.33767379233595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a cell phone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I did, I had one of those, like, Nokia cell phones, like, um, the Nokia brick phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't always work, but it was good because sometimes I had to call, like, a supplier and say and find out, like, hey, I'm, I'm in one city, you're in the other city, but I'm not going to go all the way to you if you don't have what I need. So I'd call them. They'd say, yeah, yeah, we have it, come on over. I'd go there and they didn't have it, you know. Or maybe they did, and you never really knew. But at least I could get some things done by phone. But for most part, you had to really be places to get anything done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the office, um, was everything calculated in, um, all your work product was on paper?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.152970880373275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I did, I had one of those, like, Nokia cell phones, like, um, the Nokia brick phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't always work, but it was good because sometimes I had to call, like, a supplier and say and find out, like, hey, I'm, I'm in one city, you're in the other city, but I'm not going to go all the way to you if you don't have what I need. So I'd call them. They'd say, yeah, yeah, we have it, come on over. I'd go there and they didn't have it, you know. Or maybe they did, and you never really knew. But at least I could get some things done by phone. But for most part, you had to really be places to get anything done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the office, um, was everything calculated in, um, all your work product was on paper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Big ledger books. Everything was on paper. So the co- op had a computer that was like 12 years old and really didn't work. It had, I think, like almost like Office 93 on it or something like that, that I was able, or Office 95 I think, that I was able to use a couple spreadsheets when the computer was working, but it didn't work very often. So it wasn't some, it wasn't a big part of our business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you ever go to the capital for Peace Corps, uh, training class, reunions, or social time or anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 18.7403188544654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they absolutely were. All of them were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of them were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, it was. There, the guys at the co-op were very capable, very intelligent, very good at their jobs. They just didn't know the higher level business things. And why would they? You know what I mean? And so, so what they brought to the table was like a lot of good knowledge and experience. What I brought to the table was more on the education point of view. So I also have to thank, a lot of hard work went in those two years. Not all that hard work came from me, so I have to thank a lot of the people back home. I would run into some problem that I couldn't figure out, and I would, when I was in the capital, I'd write an email to a buddy of mine I went to school with. And by the time I could get email again, he had written this like long thing citing sources of like how, how some other company had dealt with what we were dealing with. And it was usually from like 1910 America, you know, like this is how Carnegie handled it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I would read it and then I'd come up with some strategy for this business problem based off of that. So I've got to say, there were a lot of people in the, in America, in Malawi, um, that would help me through a lot of this. And then I'd bring it back to the co- op and say, hey, this is, you know, this is a strategy. What do you guys think? We would tweak it together because they had this specific industry knowledge, specific company knowledge. And then we would, we would go forward with with some kind of plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You obviously spent a lot of time and effort and made a huge impact in the operations of the co-op while you were there, but did you ever come in contact with anybody else's project, any other volunteer's projects?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 19.38374881589, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got into a car accident maybe six months in. Um, I was standing in the back of a truck with about 25 of my closest friends and, uh, like a, nah, like something ran in front of the road. I don't even know. And the truck went to a slamming stop. All 25 people leaned into the roll bar, and the roll bar broke and crushed my thumb in between the truck cab and the roll bar. Uh, and I didn't even notice until after because I was so happy I didn't fly out of the truck, uh, that my thumb had been crushed, and I, like, ripped up all the ligaments and everything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you, uh, get medical treatment for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really didn't. They tried their best, but they didn't have the facilities. At a certain point, they wanted to send me to South Africa, but I was just a little too busy, so I didn't go. Um, but it wasn't. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't anything too bad, like a fracture is going to heal. There's not really much they can do about that. They gave me a cortisone shot for the, um, I guess the ligaments. I'm not a health person, but, uh, you know, so it never really got better. But it's not the end of the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked some about coming back from being out in the field and your, you know, friends would get word of your impending arrival and be, be waiting for you. What, you know, describe a little bit about this group of Malawian friends."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I really had two friends that I was the closest with. One was the COO of the co-op or the driver. Um, and he was just such a good guy, such a, like he, he cared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was his name?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00125:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 8.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not at all. Um, well, you mentioned that you were still in touch with one of your, um, friends, uh, from Malawi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Robert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, any other involvement with the, with the country or with other people from the country since you returned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. So. We. So I'll talk to other volunteers who served in Malawi, because you just have so much in common with them, more than you have with just other volunteers who serve in Sub-Saharan or other volunteers in general. Although, you know, it's a, it's a Venn diagram there, so there's a lot you have. But there's not too many Malawians around that I know. Um, so every now and again I'll run into a Malawian and it's kind of cool.\n\nUm, I went into, I was sitting in a plane once and the two people next to me were speaking Chichewa. Okay, so because I traveled so much, by the end of my service, I was actually pretty decent at Chichewa. Um, so I heard two people speaking in Chichewa next to me. So I just started talking to them. And of course I can't, like, have a full conversation in Chichewa. I can, I can, I can order food, but on a plane, that's not really going to do much for you. Um, but, you know, so it's, it's pretty fun to, like, be able to talk about Malawi because even Malawians understand that, that there's, that they're a very small country and there's not that many of them. And you know what I mean? They have that understanding. So when you run into a Malawian, they're like blown away by it, that you've been to their country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you've completed your service and returned to America, I know you've been involved with returned Peace Corps volunteer associations. Could you tell us a little bit about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00509:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 38, "return_to_go": 89.48016947540548, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They taught us how to shoot the cameras. They gave us a special eyepiece. It was a 45-degree angle so that we could use it in the small confines of the cockpit. Basically, the same kind of camera that we use on the Space Shuttle. They also taught us how to reload the magazines of film when they were expended. And that’s where I also got to know Ron [Ronald E.] McNair pretty well for the first time. Ron was in the back of the other plane that worked on STS-3 and –4, and being the two backseaters, we got to commiserate a lot and talk about our experiences and help each other load cameras with film and things like that. Then subsequently, after that, I got to be a support crewman for Ron on his first flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you about STS 62-A, which was your Vandenberg flight, which didn’t actually—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The flight that never happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Never happened. I did have a couple of questions. We talked a little bit about it last time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you were going to be launching out of the Vandenberg complex, did the Department of Defense have any influence over things that normally NASA would have control over, or any more clout than NASA did for this mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00509:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 28.27525997471462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For instance, you were working on the Mark 3 suit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk to us about testing that suit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They were looking at a lot of designs of suits that would maybe be types of suits we might want to use on the Moon or Mars or maybe building a Space Station. We didn’t know exactly at the time. Since I had been working in EVA [Extravehicular Activity] for quite a while and one of the few people still around the office who had actual EVA experience, we got to do quite a bit of testing on several different designs of suits and we even looked at an 8-psi [pounds per square inch] suit, which meant that you didn’t have to do any pre-breathes from inside the Space Station or Shuttle until you went outside, so you’d basically get in a suit and after a very short period of time of being in there and checking out the suit, then you could go straight out the hatch and not have any concern about the bends.\\n\\n Some of that testing was done by [Manley Lanier] “Sonny” Carter, some of it was done by Jeff [Jeffrey A.] Hoffman, and me. I think we were the three prime testers. It seemed like maybe Dave [David C.] Hilmers did some of it also. But it was looking at different types of suits that could work at the higher pressures. Again, probably the hardest part of the suit design is the gloves, and trying to come up with a glove design that would work at 8-psi was fairly difficult and we never really got there.\\n\\n We demonstrated that the suit components themselves probably was achievable, and we went through a fairly long series of comparisons between various different types of designs and components for the shoulders and knees and the waist and even the ankles, and did a lot of comparison work and came up to some fairly subjective answers. Some of that technology has actually been brought back into upgrades to the Shuttle suits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How comfortable was that suit?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00509:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 40.16073275248732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some material science people who just wanted to have some discussions. Basically, the way I would work it is they would come in and tell me what they wanted to do and then we would just kind of talk about, okay, how would we perform this experiment? What kind of indications will the experiment give to an operator? How would you want to present those? What would you do if you got certain types of indications? Basically, just kind of walking through an operational checklist of things of how you would support various different types of experiments. It wasn’t an overly successful venture, I guess I’d say. We did have some contact with various experimenters, but there weren’t that many that had money to build a whole lot of hardware at that point, so it was a good program, but it never had a whole lot of fruit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned, you were assigned to STS-27. Can you tell us a little bit about your training for that flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I can. I flew on that flight as the middle seater, as the flight engineer, on the flight deck, so I worked with the commander, Hoot Gibson, and the pilot, Guy Gardner, on all the techniques and procedures for flying uphill and back down. I did some water training for contingency EVAs for spacewalks for anything that had to do with malfunctions of the Orbiter. The typical normal training that we had. Beyond that I probably can’t say a whole lot else. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What challenges did you face working on this mission? It was a classified mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had worked previously on a mission just for NASA, which was quite open."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00509:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 54.91094078278013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yes. The crew was really a great crew to fly with. We had a lot of fun. There was four males, military background kind of guys, and didn’t have to tell anybody what we were doing because we couldn’t. It was a good time. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work on any experiments that weren’t classified that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I honestly don’t recall. I think we may have had one or two small experiments that we had on the middeck, but I, frankly, don’t remember what they were, and I don’t remember if I could talk about them even if I did remember. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We don’t want to get you in trouble. Let’s talk about your next mission, which was STS-37."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the Gamma Ray Observatory [GRO]. I understand that initially the crew did some visits out to TRW [Thompson-Ramo-Woodridge, Inc.] and to Goddard Space Flight Center [Greenbelt, Maryland]. Did you get to go on these trips?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00509:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.899663356000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "N5SCW. It’s no longer my call sign, since I let the license lapse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any other memories of this flight that you’d like to share with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can’t think of any right now. It was a very busy flight, and we worked well together as a crew. I guess the one thing I do recall in hindsight is the fact that Steve and Linda both got married to each other later on. So I accuse them, in hindsight, of supposed hanky-panky during their flight, but there was none of that going on. I did end up being their best man at their wedding, so that was another nice side benefit of the flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Steve and I had known each other for quite a few years out of Edwards before we came here, and since he went to the University of Illinois [Urbana-Champaign, Illinois] and I went to Purdue [University, West Lafayette, Indiana], we harassed each other quite often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He did make it a point, when we interviewed him, to point out that he and Linda had no connection there during that mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00509:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 31, "return_to_go": 39.888514840000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can’t think of any right now. It was a very busy flight, and we worked well together as a crew. I guess the one thing I do recall in hindsight is the fact that Steve and Linda both got married to each other later on. So I accuse them, in hindsight, of supposed hanky-panky during their flight, but there was none of that going on. I did end up being their best man at their wedding, so that was another nice side benefit of the flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Steve and I had known each other for quite a few years out of Edwards before we came here, and since he went to the University of Illinois [Urbana-Champaign, Illinois] and I went to Purdue [University, West Lafayette, Indiana], we harassed each other quite often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He did make it a point, when we interviewed him, to point out that he and Linda had no connection there during that mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After you turn off the camera and recorder, I’ll tell you the real story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, all right. [Laughs]\\n\\n Your next mission was STS-55. That was an entirely different mission for you. That was an international mission, and you also served as the payload commander for that mission. Can you tell us what your duties were as the payload commander?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.770926075408635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Matter of fact, we had a lot of help from DoD [Department of Defense] in tracking the pieces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you recover any pieces to study those, or you did it all through analysis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, all analysis. We did not recover any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were having to have the tank protected from the heat but also ice. Then when the orbiter finalized its decision for the tiles, I think there was some thinking that maybe it was going to be the tank that was going to possibly hold up the first launch. It ended up being those tiles. Were you able to share expertise from your TPS research?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Aaron and I spent a lot of time together. It’s too bad that you don’t get to interview him. He was a very capable guy. I enjoyed working with him a lot. We spent a lot of time together, and when we would have program reviews we would look at all of the elements together in these reviews. One of the things that we did here at the Center—and this started way back even before Apollo—is we had program reviews with our Center Director, where the project manager would come in and present the project to the Center Director and all of his lab directors as well as the contractor would present. We would do that quarterly. It not only kept management apprised, it kept us on our toes, and it kept an involvement of all of the technical organizations very in real time with the project. I think that was extremely valuable. I saw it all the way through the Apollo program, and we continued it here through the elements at Marshall. I think it’s a very good way to keep Center management involved with the project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it also gave you a forum of helping to make the decisions on what component was going to be impacted."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.856584528231817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, all analysis. We did not recover any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were having to have the tank protected from the heat but also ice. Then when the orbiter finalized its decision for the tiles, I think there was some thinking that maybe it was going to be the tank that was going to possibly hold up the first launch. It ended up being those tiles. Were you able to share expertise from your TPS research?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Aaron and I spent a lot of time together. It’s too bad that you don’t get to interview him. He was a very capable guy. I enjoyed working with him a lot. We spent a lot of time together, and when we would have program reviews we would look at all of the elements together in these reviews. One of the things that we did here at the Center—and this started way back even before Apollo—is we had program reviews with our Center Director, where the project manager would come in and present the project to the Center Director and all of his lab directors as well as the contractor would present. We would do that quarterly. It not only kept management apprised, it kept us on our toes, and it kept an involvement of all of the technical organizations very in real time with the project. I think that was extremely valuable. I saw it all the way through the Apollo program, and we continued it here through the elements at Marshall. I think it’s a very good way to keep Center management involved with the project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it also gave you a forum of helping to make the decisions on what component was going to be impacted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seemed like any time that you had to save weight the external tank was the first place [you looked]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.822943862014588, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seemed like any time that you had to save weight the external tank was the first place [you looked]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the first place because the other propulsion units [did not have] much margin. We deliberately put margin in the tank, because until we flew it a few times you’re not really sure exactly what all those loads would be—and the loads are very complex, because it’s such an asymmetrical vehicle. It’s not like a nice vertical stack like we had on Saturn.\\n\\n One thing that’s unique, and I’m not sure the public ever really understood, was if you visualize the tank sitting on the pad, it’s bolted down by the two solid rocket motors. You’ve got the tank in the middle, then you’ve got the orbiter hanging off to the side. So here you got 250,000 pounds hanging on the side of this fairly rigid tank and solid [rocket motors]. When you light the orbiter engines first, it actually pushes the tank over, it bends it about three or four feet. The top of the tank actually goes off vertical about three or four feet, then you light the solids. Once they pressurize, it wants to pop it back straight, and you time all of that such that it lifts off when it’s [again] vertical. I still [enjoy] just watching, but for the casual observer you would never notice that detail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My point is all of that is systems engineering and integration between engines and tanks and solids and orbiters. All of that has to be orchestrated down to milliseconds of timing relative to launch. But look how many times it’s worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank goodness. Speaking of which, I know that you were off on other projects when [Space Shuttle] Challenger [STS 51-L accident] happened. Were you pulled back in to help with anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 12.127091187672331, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My point is all of that is systems engineering and integration between engines and tanks and solids and orbiters. All of that has to be orchestrated down to milliseconds of timing relative to launch. But look how many times it’s worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank goodness. Speaking of which, I know that you were off on other projects when [Space Shuttle] Challenger [STS 51-L accident] happened. Were you pulled back in to help with anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And that was deliberate, because I had been a part of the project. When that happened, I was the director of engineering here at the Center. I’d already moved off of hardware management, and they asked me to serve as the head of engineering. I basically took care of the engineering of all the other programs, but I was enjoined from working on the Challenger accident, which is right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got to watch the external tank still do its job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were also involved in the Hubble [Space Telescope], the program itself and how the Shuttle had to integrate with it as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.8078790974137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And that was deliberate, because I had been a part of the project. When that happened, I was the director of engineering here at the Center. I’d already moved off of hardware management, and they asked me to serve as the head of engineering. I basically took care of the engineering of all the other programs, but I was enjoined from working on the Challenger accident, which is right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got to watch the external tank still do its job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were also involved in the Hubble [Space Telescope], the program itself and how the Shuttle had to integrate with it as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was a very challenging program that I thoroughly enjoyed. I was the project manager for Hubble for three years, the last three years of the development, right up to the flight. We were going to launch the Shuttle in [August 1985], and then the accident happened in January. We had it all ready, and I’d served my commitment to that so I moved off after the accident. But I thoroughly enjoyed Hubble.\\n\\n One thing that helped me in managing the Hubble was I knew the Shuttle very well. The Shuttle and the Hubble could not have been integrated better in my judgment. The thing that surprised me the most was how the crews—especially on this last repair—developed the capability to do those repairs. We had designed the Hubble to be repaired, but we didn’t design it for them to take 110 #6 screws out. That just still blows my mind how they could do that with all the heavy gloves, but they did. I went to the Shuttle launch, I went to two of the repair launches, and I went to the last one, which I thoroughly enjoyed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How is the tank impacted depending on the payloads?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.230976774904111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were also involved in the Hubble [Space Telescope], the program itself and how the Shuttle had to integrate with it as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was a very challenging program that I thoroughly enjoyed. I was the project manager for Hubble for three years, the last three years of the development, right up to the flight. We were going to launch the Shuttle in [August 1985], and then the accident happened in January. We had it all ready, and I’d served my commitment to that so I moved off after the accident. But I thoroughly enjoyed Hubble.\\n\\n One thing that helped me in managing the Hubble was I knew the Shuttle very well. The Shuttle and the Hubble could not have been integrated better in my judgment. The thing that surprised me the most was how the crews—especially on this last repair—developed the capability to do those repairs. We had designed the Hubble to be repaired, but we didn’t design it for them to take 110 #6 screws out. That just still blows my mind how they could do that with all the heavy gloves, but they did. I went to the Shuttle launch, I went to two of the repair launches, and I went to the last one, which I thoroughly enjoyed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How is the tank impacted depending on the payloads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all. You build the tank for a payload capability that covers all the eventual things that the orbiter can do. The only real impact was making the tank lighter to make room for more payload. Because the tank virtually goes to orbit, it goes just a few hundred feet per second short of the orbital velocity that the orbiter needs. That says the tank is the one to go after weight, because it’s basically pound for pound. You take a pound out of the tank, you get almost a pound of payload."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you stopped painting you saved thousands of pounds."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.988860215931001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all. You build the tank for a payload capability that covers all the eventual things that the orbiter can do. The only real impact was making the tank lighter to make room for more payload. Because the tank virtually goes to orbit, it goes just a few hundred feet per second short of the orbital velocity that the orbiter needs. That says the tank is the one to go after weight, because it’s basically pound for pound. You take a pound out of the tank, you get almost a pound of payload."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you stopped painting you saved thousands of pounds."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. That’s an interesting [experience]. We painted the first three tanks because we didn’t know how long it was going to be on the pad, and that foam is very susceptible to ultraviolet light so the longer it’s on the pad, the foam will start to deteriorate, and little minute surface [particles] will start to shed off. To avoid that, we painted the first [three] white. It was like 1,500 pounds of paint we put on it, basically a flat latex paint. You wouldn’t believe the ugly letters I [received] when we took the paint off. “That old ugly colored tank.” Most of them were from ladies that just thought it really looked good before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just wasn’t pretty anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wasn’t pretty anymore. I wouldn’t have thought the public would have paid [that] much attention to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do tests for the elements of nature, how long the tank could be exposed on the Cape? Or was that mostly done with analysis?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.432066906590001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. That’s an interesting [experience]. We painted the first three tanks because we didn’t know how long it was going to be on the pad, and that foam is very susceptible to ultraviolet light so the longer it’s on the pad, the foam will start to deteriorate, and little minute surface [particles] will start to shed off. To avoid that, we painted the first [three] white. It was like 1,500 pounds of paint we put on it, basically a flat latex paint. You wouldn’t believe the ugly letters I [received] when we took the paint off. “That old ugly colored tank.” Most of them were from ladies that just thought it really looked good before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just wasn’t pretty anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wasn’t pretty anymore. I wouldn’t have thought the public would have paid [that] much attention to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do tests for the elements of nature, how long the tank could be exposed on the Cape? Or was that mostly done with analysis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Analysis. We did a tremendous amount of testing of the TPS, and we did a lot of it right out here at the Center. Every time we’d have to change the chemistry of it, we would go all the way back through these tests and expose them to arc jets, we would expose them to structural tests, we would expose them to environmental testing. I’m sure we went through that probably six or eight times in the life of the program. TPS quality and qualification testing was a big component of the program, and it was right up to the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a range safety system. How were you involved with that? Tell us about the importance of why, then of course if you were part of that when it stopped."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.924518785100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wasn’t pretty anymore. I wouldn’t have thought the public would have paid [that] much attention to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do tests for the elements of nature, how long the tank could be exposed on the Cape? Or was that mostly done with analysis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Analysis. We did a tremendous amount of testing of the TPS, and we did a lot of it right out here at the Center. Every time we’d have to change the chemistry of it, we would go all the way back through these tests and expose them to arc jets, we would expose them to structural tests, we would expose them to environmental testing. I’m sure we went through that probably six or eight times in the life of the program. TPS quality and qualification testing was a big component of the program, and it was right up to the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a range safety system. How were you involved with that? Tell us about the importance of why, then of course if you were part of that when it stopped."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fortunately we ended up not having to do too much of it, because we had to have a linear shaped charge that you could cut the tank [with]. Basically in our case, if you had to abort a flight, we had a linear shaped charge that would cut a big gash in the LOX tank and a big gash in the hydrogen tank. Once you destroyed the integrity of the pressure vessel then it crumbled very quickly so it wasn’t that hard to accommodate. It was a critical system, but it was pretty benign. It just went along for the ride, but it had to work. We knew that from the beginning, so that wasn’t anything that surprised us because we’d [worked] that on Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there discussions about including it, or was it always part of the plan?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.471687539000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Analysis. We did a tremendous amount of testing of the TPS, and we did a lot of it right out here at the Center. Every time we’d have to change the chemistry of it, we would go all the way back through these tests and expose them to arc jets, we would expose them to structural tests, we would expose them to environmental testing. I’m sure we went through that probably six or eight times in the life of the program. TPS quality and qualification testing was a big component of the program, and it was right up to the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a range safety system. How were you involved with that? Tell us about the importance of why, then of course if you were part of that when it stopped."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fortunately we ended up not having to do too much of it, because we had to have a linear shaped charge that you could cut the tank [with]. Basically in our case, if you had to abort a flight, we had a linear shaped charge that would cut a big gash in the LOX tank and a big gash in the hydrogen tank. Once you destroyed the integrity of the pressure vessel then it crumbled very quickly so it wasn’t that hard to accommodate. It was a critical system, but it was pretty benign. It just went along for the ride, but it had to work. We knew that from the beginning, so that wasn’t anything that surprised us because we’d [worked] that on Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there discussions about including it, or was it always part of the plan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’d have liked to not include it, but it really wasn’t a choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other safety measures that you had put in with the tank? I know we talked about the debris and making sure it was in the ocean."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.968541710000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fortunately we ended up not having to do too much of it, because we had to have a linear shaped charge that you could cut the tank [with]. Basically in our case, if you had to abort a flight, we had a linear shaped charge that would cut a big gash in the LOX tank and a big gash in the hydrogen tank. Once you destroyed the integrity of the pressure vessel then it crumbled very quickly so it wasn’t that hard to accommodate. It was a critical system, but it was pretty benign. It just went along for the ride, but it had to work. We knew that from the beginning, so that wasn’t anything that surprised us because we’d [worked] that on Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there discussions about including it, or was it always part of the plan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’d have liked to not include it, but it really wasn’t a choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other safety measures that you had put in with the tank? I know we talked about the debris and making sure it was in the ocean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The most critical to a pressure vessel is the factor of safety. That’s how much capability the structure has over and above the maximum anticipated load. We typically liked to have a 1.4 factor of safety for structural components. In the tank because we understood the capability, we understood the loads—it was I think one of the first where we ever took the factor of safety down to one and a quarter. Leaving you only 25 percent margin is getting pretty precise for a vehicle as complex as this. But we did that because we had enough testing to really understand the loads and how they dissipated through the structure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems like it was a system that one piece impacted the next piece."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.520601900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’d have liked to not include it, but it really wasn’t a choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other safety measures that you had put in with the tank? I know we talked about the debris and making sure it was in the ocean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The most critical to a pressure vessel is the factor of safety. That’s how much capability the structure has over and above the maximum anticipated load. We typically liked to have a 1.4 factor of safety for structural components. In the tank because we understood the capability, we understood the loads—it was I think one of the first where we ever took the factor of safety down to one and a quarter. Leaving you only 25 percent margin is getting pretty precise for a vehicle as complex as this. But we did that because we had enough testing to really understand the loads and how they dissipated through the structure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems like it was a system that one piece impacted the next piece."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you believe that the TPS was the most critical system, or is it hard to consider one?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.022891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The most critical to a pressure vessel is the factor of safety. That’s how much capability the structure has over and above the maximum anticipated load. We typically liked to have a 1.4 factor of safety for structural components. In the tank because we understood the capability, we understood the loads—it was I think one of the first where we ever took the factor of safety down to one and a quarter. Leaving you only 25 percent margin is getting pretty precise for a vehicle as complex as this. But we did that because we had enough testing to really understand the loads and how they dissipated through the structure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems like it was a system that one piece impacted the next piece."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you believe that the TPS was the most critical system, or is it hard to consider one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably the most demanding because it had so many different requirements on it. It had to adhere to the tank, it had to withstand the cryogenic temperatures at the surface, it had to withstand the [aerodynamic] loads on it, and it had to keep the surface above 32 degrees. That’s tough—and it had to be light. So I would say from a complexity of requirements, the TPS is probably the number one from a tank standpoint. And the structures would obviously be second."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stated a couple times about working with the vendors and getting to know them so well. This was somewhat of a change from what you had done in Apollo because so much had been done here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.580990000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you believe that the TPS was the most critical system, or is it hard to consider one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably the most demanding because it had so many different requirements on it. It had to adhere to the tank, it had to withstand the cryogenic temperatures at the surface, it had to withstand the [aerodynamic] loads on it, and it had to keep the surface above 32 degrees. That’s tough—and it had to be light. So I would say from a complexity of requirements, the TPS is probably the number one from a tank standpoint. And the structures would obviously be second."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stated a couple times about working with the vendors and getting to know them so well. This was somewhat of a change from what you had done in Apollo because so much had been done here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The reason being, the tank was the first [real] production program NASA had ever done. We got a lot of special attention with the tank because NASA had [typically] built maybe a dozen articles, like Apollo we did 15, [only required] one or two or three of a kind. NASA really had never done a production program [as large as required by Shuttle], and still hasn’t. The tank is still the biggest production program as far as quantity. The solids are obviously close to that. The engines are close to that because we built a lot of engines and we built a lot of motors, but those [were reused]. So far as a throwaway, the tank is the largest production program that the agency has ever done. Consequently, it was unique in that that was not characteristic of NASA programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the longest running. It’s been going on for years till just, as you mentioned, recently the last one. A lot of tanks came out of that facility, haven’t they?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.201100000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably the most demanding because it had so many different requirements on it. It had to adhere to the tank, it had to withstand the cryogenic temperatures at the surface, it had to withstand the [aerodynamic] loads on it, and it had to keep the surface above 32 degrees. That’s tough—and it had to be light. So I would say from a complexity of requirements, the TPS is probably the number one from a tank standpoint. And the structures would obviously be second."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stated a couple times about working with the vendors and getting to know them so well. This was somewhat of a change from what you had done in Apollo because so much had been done here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The reason being, the tank was the first [real] production program NASA had ever done. We got a lot of special attention with the tank because NASA had [typically] built maybe a dozen articles, like Apollo we did 15, [only required] one or two or three of a kind. NASA really had never done a production program [as large as required by Shuttle], and still hasn’t. The tank is still the biggest production program as far as quantity. The solids are obviously close to that. The engines are close to that because we built a lot of engines and we built a lot of motors, but those [were reused]. So far as a throwaway, the tank is the largest production program that the agency has ever done. Consequently, it was unique in that that was not characteristic of NASA programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the longest running. It’s been going on for years till just, as you mentioned, recently the last one. A lot of tanks came out of that facility, haven’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure have, [and it required] a lot of metal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people did you have working for you when it was at the peak during those first flights?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.779000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The reason being, the tank was the first [real] production program NASA had ever done. We got a lot of special attention with the tank because NASA had [typically] built maybe a dozen articles, like Apollo we did 15, [only required] one or two or three of a kind. NASA really had never done a production program [as large as required by Shuttle], and still hasn’t. The tank is still the biggest production program as far as quantity. The solids are obviously close to that. The engines are close to that because we built a lot of engines and we built a lot of motors, but those [were reused]. So far as a throwaway, the tank is the largest production program that the agency has ever done. Consequently, it was unique in that that was not characteristic of NASA programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the longest running. It’s been going on for years till just, as you mentioned, recently the last one. A lot of tanks came out of that facility, haven’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure have, [and it required] a lot of metal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people did you have working for you when it was at the peak during those first flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the project office I had probably 25 or 30 people. I had probably another 200 or 300 here at the Center, not full-time but almost full-time, in all the engineering disciplines. You’d need to get from Martin, how many. We probably had I would guess 1,000, 1,200 people by the time we got into production at Michoud."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s easy now to look back on the decision of putting so much money into low development cost compared to operational cost. Can you talk about how much time you did or didn’t spend on looking at the overall operational cost compared to trying to move into development at a lower cost?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00732:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the project office I had probably 25 or 30 people. I had probably another 200 or 300 here at the Center, not full-time but almost full-time, in all the engineering disciplines. You’d need to get from Martin, how many. We probably had I would guess 1,000, 1,200 people by the time we got into production at Michoud."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s easy now to look back on the decision of putting so much money into low development cost compared to operational cost. Can you talk about how much time you did or didn’t spend on looking at the overall operational cost compared to trying to move into development at a lower cost?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the tank was a high production thing, we spent a lot of time—and we should, because like I say, early on we put almost $1 billion just in the tooling. The other key thing that I wanted and the project wanted was to build all of the test articles on exactly the same tooling that we built the flight articles, because [we] wanted to know that I was testing exactly what [we were] flying. That is so critical. If you don’t do that, if you don’t know what you’re testing, then you don’t know that your test program is qualifying your flight hardware. That’s why we put so much money at the front end of the tooling. DoD would not spend as much money on tooling on the early development articles, and then once they had flown a few, they would go into a production contract.\\n\\n What we did differently [was starting] our production contract at day one. And that was gutty. That was out of the government’s experience. It was another thing that was quite unique for NASA, to basically start a production program at day one. What [we] wanted to do was make sure that we were testing what we were going to fly, and use the same welding techniques, the same TPS, all of that the same that you would have on the first flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a pretty daunting 20 a year, 400 in that facility."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was big then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s big now."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00478:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 23, "return_to_go": 94.11185891054919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of STS-1?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just in awe of how such a complicated vehicle like that—from a flight test perspective, I thought it was the most complicated and successful flight test I’ve ever seen. I couldn’t believe that for the first flight test, we were going to actually do the whole mission from beginning to end. Although it was obvious that that was the right thing to do, it still had a tremendous amount of risk associated with it because if there’s nothing, that if I was a test pilot, and I controlled it and there was any other way around it, nobody would have ever flown that flight the way we flew it. But just due to the physics of it all and you just couldn’t do it any other way, other than the way NASA pulled it off with minimum crew and so forth, then it just all worked. So I was just dazzled by that fact that we could take such a complicated thing and make it work for the first time. And that feeling hasn’t left me.\\n\\n And when we launched the next one here, I still think it’s the most complicated thing that human beings can ever undertake, and for the most part, we do it very, very well, but it’s just fraught with risk, and I held my breath every time. In STS-1, I held my breath, and I stayed up or I don’t think I slept much. I didn’t have much to do, but I just wanted to be over listening so that basically I could understand, because I knew I’d have to fly it one day. Still there was a lot about it that I didn’t understand. I wanted to understand what the crew was going through and what and how the systems were performing on orbit. I didn’t sleep a lot during that three or four-day flight, but then I was just happy when it got back. I [was] just in awe. That was my feeling that I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you here in Houston during that flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Besides working as a member of the support group for STS-2, what were some of your other assignments?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00478:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 53.59962189129783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that’s what I remember about landing. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any PR [Public Relations] duties after this flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had PR duties before that flight and after the flight, and most of them were classified in nature, going out to whatever it was we had onboard and talking to the people that helped make it. That’s all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No hometown tours or anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I did that, too, yeah, I did that, but I don’t remember much of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your duties after this flight until you were named to your second flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00478:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 42.406554933700995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any challenges that you had to face on that mission, that you can talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall any, other than getting Ulysses out, and I don’t recall any. And the other challenge was this was my first landing. It was going to be at Edwards Air Force Base, and I didn’t want to land at a hundred and seventy-five knots, I knew that, and the landing turned out to be—I decided to use a different technique that the rest of the Astronaut Office was using at that point, and that turned out to work wonderfully. And for the most part, a lot of guys have adapted that technique."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was that technique?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically, fly the vehicle down to about five feet, and then don’t touch it anymore because ground effect, the vehicle’s got so much wingspan that once it gets down to ground effect, there’s a natural cushioning. In fact, you’ll end up landing at maybe about one foot per second. You won’t be the world record touchdown. You won’t go .001 and then be able to say you did point, but you’ll land consistently at one foot per second. And so that was my technique for that sort of thing, and it turned out to work just like I hoped it. So I think the Astronaut Office liked that. I think there’s a lot of people that—I think I’ve always said, “This thing flies very well without pilot inputs.” [Laughs] “It just occasionally needs to be guided, so just guide it, don’t fly it.” So that worked out well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything end up on your windshield?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00478:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.20302112287353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "KB5SIW."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did everyone have a chance to experiment with the SAREX or was it just—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ken Bowersox didn’t. I don’t think Ken was particularly enamored with it. He wasn’t interested in it, and so it was myself and Ellen Baker, for the most part. Ellen thought it was as much fun as I did, because she was on the other shift, and she was worried she wouldn’t have anything to do. So as soon as I got done, she would get on, and she said she’d go over her list of girlfriends that she had collected on her side of the world that she flies over when we’re asleep. So she had a ball, too. Ellen and I still have fun recalling that experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed your crew was up during the Fourth of July. Did you have any sort of celebration?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot. Not a lot. No, we took out a moment to honor America and tried to do the best we could with that sort of thing, but there wasn’t really much about that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other interesting anecdotes from this flight or landing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00478:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 43.558912358748366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ken Bowersox didn’t. I don’t think Ken was particularly enamored with it. He wasn’t interested in it, and so it was myself and Ellen Baker, for the most part. Ellen thought it was as much fun as I did, because she was on the other shift, and she was worried she wouldn’t have anything to do. So as soon as I got done, she would get on, and she said she’d go over her list of girlfriends that she had collected on her side of the world that she flies over when we’re asleep. So she had a ball, too. Ellen and I still have fun recalling that experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed your crew was up during the Fourth of July. Did you have any sort of celebration?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot. Not a lot. No, we took out a moment to honor America and tried to do the best we could with that sort of thing, but there wasn’t really much about that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other interesting anecdotes from this flight or landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not that I can talk about. No, everything else, it was a great flight, and we had some physical problems brought about by that much time in space. None of it affected the crew that mattered in entry. We were all in good shape, but we learned a lot during that flight, let me put it like that, that help people fly those long-duration flights. Again, that’s you have to do the unique thing we do, which is land the vehicle after that. But, yes. No, everything else was routine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Do you want to talk about your last flight, or should we wait until next time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00478:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 48.398791509720404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot. Not a lot. No, we took out a moment to honor America and tried to do the best we could with that sort of thing, but there wasn’t really much about that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other interesting anecdotes from this flight or landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not that I can talk about. No, everything else, it was a great flight, and we had some physical problems brought about by that much time in space. None of it affected the crew that mattered in entry. We were all in good shape, but we learned a lot during that flight, let me put it like that, that help people fly those long-duration flights. Again, that’s you have to do the unique thing we do, which is land the vehicle after that. But, yes. No, everything else was routine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Do you want to talk about your last flight, or should we wait until next time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What time is it here? Well, let’s see here. Let me see what I got going on here, see what the next event is. We’ll see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just have one more question about this flight. Did you have any sort of PR tours after this flight? Did you go to Europe?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00478:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 50.44310167746711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not that I can talk about. No, everything else, it was a great flight, and we had some physical problems brought about by that much time in space. None of it affected the crew that mattered in entry. We were all in good shape, but we learned a lot during that flight, let me put it like that, that help people fly those long-duration flights. Again, that’s you have to do the unique thing we do, which is land the vehicle after that. But, yes. No, everything else was routine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Do you want to talk about your last flight, or should we wait until next time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What time is it here? Well, let’s see here. Let me see what I got going on here, see what the next event is. We’ll see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just have one more question about this flight. Did you have any sort of PR tours after this flight? Did you go to Europe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. Europe, yes, I think. I’m trying to remember, where did we go? It was the United States Microgravity Laboratories. So no, we didn’t go to Europe. We went back up to Washington, D.C., to thank the congressional people that supported that particular flight. Then my recollection is the Cook Islands was—that sort of overpowered all the other events. I’m sure we did other things, but I just don’t remember them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about STS-64?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00478:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 55.02362728829804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember it all went routine, and the fact that later, a later flight turned out to be they ended up deploying SPARTAN the same like we did, and ended up misconfiguring it and almost losing the spacecraft. It made me very thankful for the crew I had, because Sue [Susan J.] Helms was the—now General Helms—was the mission specialist in charge of SPARTAN, along with some help from Carl Meade on that thing, and they made it go routine. In fact, I don’t remember being worried about it at all. Later, watching that later flight, I said, “Boy, I should have been a lot more worried about that thing.” But I wasn’t, and they did a wonderful job with it, both on the deployment and then the rendezvous itself, all went just like I hoped it was, routine, and brought that thing in and hovered it over the payload bay and turned it over to Susan, who just maneuvered the arm right over, grabbed it, and we stuck it in the bay, and it was all very satisfying, because it worked very, very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a volcano that exploded in New Guinea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was. There was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it just sort of showed up. All of a sudden the ground, Earth Ops people, said, “There’s a volcano that might go. Take a look for it on your next rev.” And literally, we’d flown over it the previous rev and not seen anything, and the next rev we came back over and it was obvious. We could see this smoke and ash cloud streaming almost maybe seven, eight hundred miles away, and then flew over it, and it was very present. Made us glad we were there, and not down there where those poor people were having to deal with that thing. But it was a very impressive act of nature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other recollections from this mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00478:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 12.458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot. I had Program Integration, so that my people did work the debris transport work during the flight. We knew the piece had come off. We knew it had broken up into two or three pieces. We had to model where it could have hit, and then pass it on to the Orbiter. So we had done all that work, and all we could do was give them a range of probabilities, all the way from the leading edge of the wing to the wheel well area, about where it might have hit. We knew it hit, we just didn’t know where, because the photography, it looked like it was under the side of a wing, but we couldn’t tell for sure, so we gave them probabilities as far as where it could hit. So we went back over that work; impounded all that data, because we knew, or it didn’t take too long to figure out, that that had something to do with it. Got all the people involved that did the transport analysis, analytical work, locked their desks. We told them to go home; don’t talk to anybody, get ready for a long, arduous process. So that’s what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were primarily involved in the investigation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really, no. Because I ran Program Integration, I think they thought I was too close to it. I was surprised by that. I would have thought I would have been, but they decided to keep me out of that sort of thing. It was really a NASA show, and our people was just there to support NASA in their investigation, both in the Orbiter side and the integration side. I would have thought I would have done a lot, but I really didn’t. I really didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s what it sounds like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what have you been doing since the\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n accident?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.569139612259917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every case was different of course. Typically it would take maybe one month occupancy time for the first round of testing of new airplane. But then it would come back for further testing, a few weeks at a time, during the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the tunnel continually used? Was something always ready to go in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually at that time it was on double shift operation, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in charge of all the people that were doing the testing of those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there from 1960 until I retired in 1982. In that time I was promoted to become head of the Aeroelasticity Branch, the position I held until becoming Chief Scientist of the Loads and Aeroelasticity Division in 1980. At the time I left the Branch there were about 30 people including the technicians. All these people were really top-notch. I just can’t tell you what a great bunch of people they were and how smart they were. Many times we would have postdoc [post-doctoral] fellows come in and spend a year working in the Tunnel. They would come from countries like Japan and India and Israel. We had an MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, Massachusetts] postdoc fellow and he eventually after that became a NASA employee and assumed management positions at Langley, at Kennedy, became Director of Glenn Research Center, and is now Associate Director of NASA. His name is Dr. Woodrow Whitlow. You probably know him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I have met him. That’s nice. That’s interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.743488458066574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually at that time it was on double shift operation, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in charge of all the people that were doing the testing of those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there from 1960 until I retired in 1982. In that time I was promoted to become head of the Aeroelasticity Branch, the position I held until becoming Chief Scientist of the Loads and Aeroelasticity Division in 1980. At the time I left the Branch there were about 30 people including the technicians. All these people were really top-notch. I just can’t tell you what a great bunch of people they were and how smart they were. Many times we would have postdoc [post-doctoral] fellows come in and spend a year working in the Tunnel. They would come from countries like Japan and India and Israel. We had an MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, Massachusetts] postdoc fellow and he eventually after that became a NASA employee and assumed management positions at Langley, at Kennedy, became Director of Glenn Research Center, and is now Associate Director of NASA. His name is Dr. Woodrow Whitlow. You probably know him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I have met him. That’s nice. That’s interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He came out of our pocket at the Transonic Dynamics Tunnel and has gone up like a rocket himself. Very good man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Could you share with us about the team that was at that tunnel? I know you mentioned there were technicians. Of course you were there. The different roles that the different groups, and how they worked together to get these results."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.04832050896286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there from 1960 until I retired in 1982. In that time I was promoted to become head of the Aeroelasticity Branch, the position I held until becoming Chief Scientist of the Loads and Aeroelasticity Division in 1980. At the time I left the Branch there were about 30 people including the technicians. All these people were really top-notch. I just can’t tell you what a great bunch of people they were and how smart they were. Many times we would have postdoc [post-doctoral] fellows come in and spend a year working in the Tunnel. They would come from countries like Japan and India and Israel. We had an MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, Massachusetts] postdoc fellow and he eventually after that became a NASA employee and assumed management positions at Langley, at Kennedy, became Director of Glenn Research Center, and is now Associate Director of NASA. His name is Dr. Woodrow Whitlow. You probably know him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I have met him. That’s nice. That’s interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He came out of our pocket at the Transonic Dynamics Tunnel and has gone up like a rocket himself. Very good man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Could you share with us about the team that was at that tunnel? I know you mentioned there were technicians. Of course you were there. The different roles that the different groups, and how they worked together to get these results."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time the Aeroelasticity Branch consisted of three engineering sections and two technician sections. The engineering sections oversaw flutter testing, aeroelastic analysis and rotorcraft dynamics respectively; the technician sections handled tunnel operations and test support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As these projects came in were they assigned by the branch head to work with certain teams?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.498133898847621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He came out of our pocket at the Transonic Dynamics Tunnel and has gone up like a rocket himself. Very good man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Could you share with us about the team that was at that tunnel? I know you mentioned there were technicians. Of course you were there. The different roles that the different groups, and how they worked together to get these results."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time the Aeroelasticity Branch consisted of three engineering sections and two technician sections. The engineering sections oversaw flutter testing, aeroelastic analysis and rotorcraft dynamics respectively; the technician sections handled tunnel operations and test support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As these projects came in were they assigned by the branch head to work with certain teams?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Team assignments were based on the skills needed to best support the project in question. For example, in flutter model testing, to help show that the full scale aircraft will be flutter free over its operating envelope, the test engineer must know the signs of an approaching flutter condition so as to avoid destruction of the model. Likewise, the tunnel operator technician must be alert to the call for rapid cut back of tunnel speed. Assignments for tests relating to helicopters would naturally come from the rotorcraft dynamics section. Assignment to do in-house research and/or other outside projects could come from anywhere within the branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there very many rejections when there was a request for the tunnel by outside people? If you had to make a decision on who got to use the wind tunnel for a test, were there times that you rejected people who wanted to use the Tunnel?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.997926554275134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time the Aeroelasticity Branch consisted of three engineering sections and two technician sections. The engineering sections oversaw flutter testing, aeroelastic analysis and rotorcraft dynamics respectively; the technician sections handled tunnel operations and test support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As these projects came in were they assigned by the branch head to work with certain teams?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Team assignments were based on the skills needed to best support the project in question. For example, in flutter model testing, to help show that the full scale aircraft will be flutter free over its operating envelope, the test engineer must know the signs of an approaching flutter condition so as to avoid destruction of the model. Likewise, the tunnel operator technician must be alert to the call for rapid cut back of tunnel speed. Assignments for tests relating to helicopters would naturally come from the rotorcraft dynamics section. Assignment to do in-house research and/or other outside projects could come from anywhere within the branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there very many rejections when there was a request for the tunnel by outside people? If you had to make a decision on who got to use the wind tunnel for a test, were there times that you rejected people who wanted to use the Tunnel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, if they came in with a proposed test that we felt was low priority or not needed. At that time the schedule was always packed and there were people in line, maybe a year delay before they could get their entrance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because this Tunnel was very unique."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.55325172697237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Team assignments were based on the skills needed to best support the project in question. For example, in flutter model testing, to help show that the full scale aircraft will be flutter free over its operating envelope, the test engineer must know the signs of an approaching flutter condition so as to avoid destruction of the model. Likewise, the tunnel operator technician must be alert to the call for rapid cut back of tunnel speed. Assignments for tests relating to helicopters would naturally come from the rotorcraft dynamics section. Assignment to do in-house research and/or other outside projects could come from anywhere within the branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there very many rejections when there was a request for the tunnel by outside people? If you had to make a decision on who got to use the wind tunnel for a test, were there times that you rejected people who wanted to use the Tunnel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, if they came in with a proposed test that we felt was low priority or not needed. At that time the schedule was always packed and there were people in line, maybe a year delay before they could get their entrance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because this Tunnel was very unique."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a unique tunnel; it had features that are still unique. First it had a different gas. It could be tested in air or a heavy gas called Freon-12. This heavy gas was used because it eased the difficulty of designing flutter models. Flutter models must be designed to have the proper flexibility and weight, and this becomes very difficult if those scaling factors have to be matched in air. It’s much easier if you have a heavy gas.\\n\\n Also the speed of sound in Freon is lower than it is in air, so the power required is much less. There are a number of reasons for that. Also the pressure of the Tunnel can be varied so that you can test at simulated altitudes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. When you were describing the test, when you talked about the models, were there specific criteria for what you would take as a model? Or did the manufacturer provide the model that they wanted tested?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.281390807747076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, if they came in with a proposed test that we felt was low priority or not needed. At that time the schedule was always packed and there were people in line, maybe a year delay before they could get their entrance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because this Tunnel was very unique."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a unique tunnel; it had features that are still unique. First it had a different gas. It could be tested in air or a heavy gas called Freon-12. This heavy gas was used because it eased the difficulty of designing flutter models. Flutter models must be designed to have the proper flexibility and weight, and this becomes very difficult if those scaling factors have to be matched in air. It’s much easier if you have a heavy gas.\\n\\n Also the speed of sound in Freon is lower than it is in air, so the power required is much less. There are a number of reasons for that. Also the pressure of the Tunnel can be varied so that you can test at simulated altitudes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. When you were describing the test, when you talked about the models, were there specific criteria for what you would take as a model? Or did the manufacturer provide the model that they wanted tested?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually the manufacturer would provide the model, however, it would have to satisfy all criteria required for the test. But in many cases we would do research on models that were built in house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to design some of those models since you had that expertise of being a model builder?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.090434230830084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a unique tunnel; it had features that are still unique. First it had a different gas. It could be tested in air or a heavy gas called Freon-12. This heavy gas was used because it eased the difficulty of designing flutter models. Flutter models must be designed to have the proper flexibility and weight, and this becomes very difficult if those scaling factors have to be matched in air. It’s much easier if you have a heavy gas.\\n\\n Also the speed of sound in Freon is lower than it is in air, so the power required is much less. There are a number of reasons for that. Also the pressure of the Tunnel can be varied so that you can test at simulated altitudes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. When you were describing the test, when you talked about the models, were there specific criteria for what you would take as a model? Or did the manufacturer provide the model that they wanted tested?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually the manufacturer would provide the model, however, it would have to satisfy all criteria required for the test. But in many cases we would do research on models that were built in house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to design some of those models since you had that expertise of being a model builder?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that didn’t flow over into TDT. I did, however, build some models at home that I ran in Langley low speed tunnels, mostly for demonstration purposes: propeller whirl flutter, flutter-model mount system, hanging chain damper, stop sign flutter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first shared with us you talked about Bob Champine. Did you get to work with him much more after you went to work with the tunnel?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.100482478700094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually the manufacturer would provide the model, however, it would have to satisfy all criteria required for the test. But in many cases we would do research on models that were built in house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to design some of those models since you had that expertise of being a model builder?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that didn’t flow over into TDT. I did, however, build some models at home that I ran in Langley low speed tunnels, mostly for demonstration purposes: propeller whirl flutter, flutter-model mount system, hanging chain damper, stop sign flutter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first shared with us you talked about Bob Champine. Did you get to work with him much more after you went to work with the tunnel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not after that, except we attended model airplane meetings and contests together, which he usually won."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a good rival. Did you have any interest in going with Chris Kraft and Chuck Mathews to Houston?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.889424976333437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that didn’t flow over into TDT. I did, however, build some models at home that I ran in Langley low speed tunnels, mostly for demonstration purposes: propeller whirl flutter, flutter-model mount system, hanging chain damper, stop sign flutter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first shared with us you talked about Bob Champine. Did you get to work with him much more after you went to work with the tunnel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not after that, except we attended model airplane meetings and contests together, which he usually won."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a good rival. Did you have any interest in going with Chris Kraft and Chuck Mathews to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really, because at TDT I could work on both aeronautic and space related projects. TDT support of the Saturn-Apollo mission is a good example. Here we tested scale models of the Saturn-V erected on the launch pad to study the effects of ground wind loads. From these tests we discovered that at a scaled wind speed of 55 knots, the Saturn would oscillate at levels that exceeded its structural design loads of the full scale vehicle. These Saturn model studies revealed not only a potential problem but also a solution for it, namely, to add dampers to suppress the vibrations. Such dampers, in the form of shock absorbers, like those on your car only larger, were then installed as a connecting links between the vehicle to the launch tower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was determined because of the work that was done here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 19.87713886259271, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not after that, except we attended model airplane meetings and contests together, which he usually won."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a good rival. Did you have any interest in going with Chris Kraft and Chuck Mathews to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really, because at TDT I could work on both aeronautic and space related projects. TDT support of the Saturn-Apollo mission is a good example. Here we tested scale models of the Saturn-V erected on the launch pad to study the effects of ground wind loads. From these tests we discovered that at a scaled wind speed of 55 knots, the Saturn would oscillate at levels that exceeded its structural design loads of the full scale vehicle. These Saturn model studies revealed not only a potential problem but also a solution for it, namely, to add dampers to suppress the vibrations. Such dampers, in the form of shock absorbers, like those on your car only larger, were then installed as a connecting links between the vehicle to the launch tower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was determined because of the work that was done here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was the fruit of work done at TDT."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s something to be very proud of, because that was very needed, wasn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.663134398262605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was the fruit of work done at TDT."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s something to be very proud of, because that was very needed, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A similar wind-loads problem was encountered on a Navy antenna system consisting of an array of 24-foot tall vertically standing tube-like structures. At certain wind speeds the antenna would vibrate causing fatigue cracks in the structure. We found in the wind tunnel tests of a full-size antenna that a cluster of rubber covered chains hung inside of the antenna tip would dampen out the vibration. The so called Hanging-Chain Impact Damper was patented and has been used commercially in similar structures including lamp poles on highways and a sports stadium..\\n\\n During launch of the first Saturn-V at Kennedy Space Center [Florida] windows in the Launch Control Room appeared to rattle and vibrate due to the extreme noise generated by the Saturn rockets. Stories were coming out that the vibration deflections were as much as four inches. There was a lot of concern because the 20-foot-high wall of windows sloped inward over the heads of people seated underneath. The folks at Kennedy sought Langley’s help in finding a fix, so, it was decided to take a look at using chain dampers. A prototype damper, consisting of a 20-foot long tube with a rubber-coated chain inside, was quickly assembled, calibrated and shipped to Kennedy in time for installation on one of the window trusses before the next launch. I was in the control room during the launch, and we found from the instrumented window recordings that the levels of window vibration, with or without the damper attached, were indeed benign. What appeared to be dangerous vibrations of the glass were, in fact, just reflections due to minor motions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s an interesting problem to solve, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Turned out to be a non-problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there for a launch?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.292371553625117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A similar wind-loads problem was encountered on a Navy antenna system consisting of an array of 24-foot tall vertically standing tube-like structures. At certain wind speeds the antenna would vibrate causing fatigue cracks in the structure. We found in the wind tunnel tests of a full-size antenna that a cluster of rubber covered chains hung inside of the antenna tip would dampen out the vibration. The so called Hanging-Chain Impact Damper was patented and has been used commercially in similar structures including lamp poles on highways and a sports stadium..\\n\\n During launch of the first Saturn-V at Kennedy Space Center [Florida] windows in the Launch Control Room appeared to rattle and vibrate due to the extreme noise generated by the Saturn rockets. Stories were coming out that the vibration deflections were as much as four inches. There was a lot of concern because the 20-foot-high wall of windows sloped inward over the heads of people seated underneath. The folks at Kennedy sought Langley’s help in finding a fix, so, it was decided to take a look at using chain dampers. A prototype damper, consisting of a 20-foot long tube with a rubber-coated chain inside, was quickly assembled, calibrated and shipped to Kennedy in time for installation on one of the window trusses before the next launch. I was in the control room during the launch, and we found from the instrumented window recordings that the levels of window vibration, with or without the damper attached, were indeed benign. What appeared to be dangerous vibrations of the glass were, in fact, just reflections due to minor motions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s an interesting problem to solve, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Turned out to be a non-problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there for a launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got a launch, that was a nice, you got to be there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.99152394847235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Turned out to be a non-problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there for a launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got a launch, that was a nice, you got to be there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was Saturn number two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was great. You were here until the mid ’80s, is that what you said?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.768359942747054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got a launch, that was a nice, you got to be there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was Saturn number two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was great. You were here until the mid ’80s, is that what you said?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I retired in ’82."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1982. You had gone from pre-space days to the [Space] Shuttle era, because the Shuttle had launched in ’81. Did you have any work at all that you did with the Space Shuttle?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.742622158607837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was Saturn number two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was great. You were here until the mid ’80s, is that what you said?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I retired in ’82."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1982. You had gone from pre-space days to the [Space] Shuttle era, because the Shuttle had launched in ’81. Did you have any work at all that you did with the Space Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. All components of the Space Shuttle were tested individually: the vertical tail, the wing, and the fully assembled Shuttle, all were tested using aeroelastically scaled models."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts as an aeronautical expert when you first saw the design of the orbiter?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.49180239845315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I retired in ’82."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1982. You had gone from pre-space days to the [Space] Shuttle era, because the Shuttle had launched in ’81. Did you have any work at all that you did with the Space Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. All components of the Space Shuttle were tested individually: the vertical tail, the wing, and the fully assembled Shuttle, all were tested using aeroelastically scaled models."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts as an aeronautical expert when you first saw the design of the orbiter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It looked like a slow airplane to me. But yes, we were heavily involved not only in the Shuttle program but also supported the Viking Mars mission. Because the TDT could simulate the near-vacuum atmosphere of Mars, a Viking Lander model was used to help find optimum locations for mounting wind sensors. Tests were also performed on the Lander’s parachute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve gone a lot of places without ever leaving that wind tunnel, didn’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.43533599828128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. All components of the Space Shuttle were tested individually: the vertical tail, the wing, and the fully assembled Shuttle, all were tested using aeroelastically scaled models."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts as an aeronautical expert when you first saw the design of the orbiter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It looked like a slow airplane to me. But yes, we were heavily involved not only in the Shuttle program but also supported the Viking Mars mission. Because the TDT could simulate the near-vacuum atmosphere of Mars, a Viking Lander model was used to help find optimum locations for mounting wind sensors. Tests were also performed on the Lander’s parachute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve gone a lot of places without ever leaving that wind tunnel, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. It was a job that you shouldn’t be paid for, it was so much fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s neat. You’ve seen the Viking lander and the Shuttle and the Saturn, plus corporate or manufacturer type of models. Were there any others that you remember that were very unique for a flying machine to come out of your tunnel?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.26148444253475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It looked like a slow airplane to me. But yes, we were heavily involved not only in the Shuttle program but also supported the Viking Mars mission. Because the TDT could simulate the near-vacuum atmosphere of Mars, a Viking Lander model was used to help find optimum locations for mounting wind sensors. Tests were also performed on the Lander’s parachute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve gone a lot of places without ever leaving that wind tunnel, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. It was a job that you shouldn’t be paid for, it was so much fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s neat. You’ve seen the Viking lander and the Shuttle and the Saturn, plus corporate or manufacturer type of models. Were there any others that you remember that were very unique for a flying machine to come out of your tunnel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Dr. Francis] Rogallo’s fabric kite that was not a kite, a hang glider I guess it would be, it was considered as a recovery item for the Mercury or Gemini launch vehicle, and that was tested in the tunnel as well as parachutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During those first days of the space race, many people, especially in Houston, were working almost round the clock to move the space program faster. Did you see that here as well with the testing that you were doing for some of the spacecraft that were coming through here? Was your area working as you mentioned the double shifts and long hours to get those done?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.957204936149722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. It was a job that you shouldn’t be paid for, it was so much fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s neat. You’ve seen the Viking lander and the Shuttle and the Saturn, plus corporate or manufacturer type of models. Were there any others that you remember that were very unique for a flying machine to come out of your tunnel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Dr. Francis] Rogallo’s fabric kite that was not a kite, a hang glider I guess it would be, it was considered as a recovery item for the Mercury or Gemini launch vehicle, and that was tested in the tunnel as well as parachutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During those first days of the space race, many people, especially in Houston, were working almost round the clock to move the space program faster. Did you see that here as well with the testing that you were doing for some of the spacecraft that were coming through here? Was your area working as you mentioned the double shifts and long hours to get those done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, double shifts were standard. On the Saturn models we also measured the unsteady pressure loads due to buffeting. We studied ground wind load effects on many of the launch vehicles starting with the Scout and followed by Titan and Saturn models and, as of late, the Ares vehicle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Have you been able to go out? Do they still let you come out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.730227706833027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Dr. Francis] Rogallo’s fabric kite that was not a kite, a hang glider I guess it would be, it was considered as a recovery item for the Mercury or Gemini launch vehicle, and that was tested in the tunnel as well as parachutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During those first days of the space race, many people, especially in Houston, were working almost round the clock to move the space program faster. Did you see that here as well with the testing that you were doing for some of the spacecraft that were coming through here? Was your area working as you mentioned the double shifts and long hours to get those done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, double shifts were standard. On the Saturn models we also measured the unsteady pressure loads due to buffeting. We studied ground wind load effects on many of the launch vehicles starting with the Scout and followed by Titan and Saturn models and, as of late, the Ares vehicle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Have you been able to go out? Do they still let you come out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I go out there occasionally. I was what they call a Distinguished Research Associate for a couple years, after retiring. Also, I’ve been involved in setting up an archival library in the TDT for collecting, among other things, technical reports by people that retire, and box loads of documents, pictures and movies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.58914189648114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, double shifts were standard. On the Saturn models we also measured the unsteady pressure loads due to buffeting. We studied ground wind load effects on many of the launch vehicles starting with the Scout and followed by Titan and Saturn models and, as of late, the Ares vehicle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Have you been able to go out? Do they still let you come out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I go out there occasionally. I was what they call a Distinguished Research Associate for a couple years, after retiring. Also, I’ve been involved in setting up an archival library in the TDT for collecting, among other things, technical reports by people that retire, and box loads of documents, pictures and movies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All that got organized thanks to my friend Bob [Robert V.] Doggett, who succeeded me as branch head. There is now a room dedicated to the archives of TDT and other things. Most everything stored has been cataloged on the computer, so one can go there and search out things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s an amazing tool that you have provided for people. Good, that’s great. When you were with NACA and then almost overnight it became NASA, did you feel any transition? Was there anything different from one group to the other?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.654602107201267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I go out there occasionally. I was what they call a Distinguished Research Associate for a couple years, after retiring. Also, I’ve been involved in setting up an archival library in the TDT for collecting, among other things, technical reports by people that retire, and box loads of documents, pictures and movies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All that got organized thanks to my friend Bob [Robert V.] Doggett, who succeeded me as branch head. There is now a room dedicated to the archives of TDT and other things. Most everything stored has been cataloged on the computer, so one can go there and search out things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s an amazing tool that you have provided for people. Good, that’s great. When you were with NACA and then almost overnight it became NASA, did you feel any transition? Was there anything different from one group to the other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course in my work I had a transitioned from flight research to wind tunnels, at the very time it became NASA. I don’t know which was which as far as affecting my career. I really don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your wife earlier. Did she work out here as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.949557896890298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All that got organized thanks to my friend Bob [Robert V.] Doggett, who succeeded me as branch head. There is now a room dedicated to the archives of TDT and other things. Most everything stored has been cataloged on the computer, so one can go there and search out things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s an amazing tool that you have provided for people. Good, that’s great. When you were with NACA and then almost overnight it became NASA, did you feel any transition? Was there anything different from one group to the other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course in my work I had a transitioned from flight research to wind tunnels, at the very time it became NASA. I don’t know which was which as far as affecting my career. I really don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your wife earlier. Did she work out here as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But your home was here in Hampton close by?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.277286552100332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course in my work I had a transitioned from flight research to wind tunnels, at the very time it became NASA. I don’t know which was which as far as affecting my career. I really don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your wife earlier. Did she work out here as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But your home was here in Hampton close by?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. One interesting aside. When we came here in 1948 there were other NACA guys my age that were new here. We all needed homes. There were six of us that bought property on a newly developed little dead-end road. We decided to build our own houses—literally. We helped each other raise the roof. In three years’ period we had each built our own house, and were living in it. I still live in a remodeled and enlarged version that house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a well-built home."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.863651724555922, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But your home was here in Hampton close by?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. One interesting aside. When we came here in 1948 there were other NACA guys my age that were new here. We all needed homes. There were six of us that bought property on a newly developed little dead-end road. We decided to build our own houses—literally. We helped each other raise the roof. In three years’ period we had each built our own house, and were living in it. I still live in a remodeled and enlarged version that house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a well-built home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The others are all gone. Some went to Houston; the rest are probably in heaven by now. But I thought it was interesting that we didn’t know a thing about building houses at the beginning, but at the end knew more than you care to hear about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first one got in his house earlier, but the last one had a house that knew more."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 28.737390805062134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. One interesting aside. When we came here in 1948 there were other NACA guys my age that were new here. We all needed homes. There were six of us that bought property on a newly developed little dead-end road. We decided to build our own houses—literally. We helped each other raise the roof. In three years’ period we had each built our own house, and were living in it. I still live in a remodeled and enlarged version that house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a well-built home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The others are all gone. Some went to Houston; the rest are probably in heaven by now. But I thought it was interesting that we didn’t know a thing about building houses at the beginning, but at the end knew more than you care to hear about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first one got in his house earlier, but the last one had a house that knew more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a beautiful area. We’ve enjoyed seeing so much of what’s there. I guess you saw lots of changes on Langley as well, on the field."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 28.59710089451348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The others are all gone. Some went to Houston; the rest are probably in heaven by now. But I thought it was interesting that we didn’t know a thing about building houses at the beginning, but at the end knew more than you care to hear about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first one got in his house earlier, but the last one had a house that knew more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a beautiful area. We’ve enjoyed seeing so much of what’s there. I guess you saw lots of changes on Langley as well, on the field."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. The Flight Research Division when I came here was located in the East Area. They had a hangar on the flight line. About five years later they moved to a new hangar in the West Area of NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Did you make a lot of improvements to the facility while you were there? Or did the facility stay pretty much the same?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:68", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.071941616390003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew test pilots. Did you ever have any desire to be one yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a quick answer.\n\nNo regrets, huh?\n\nI think that takes a special personality."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I did fly for another 10 years for the Navy as an inactive reserve, they called us weekend warriors. I went over to nearby Norfolk [Virginia] on weekends and would fly SNJs [North American Aviation T-6 Texan]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was an easy commute. Didn’t have to go far."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.857712907100002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a quick answer.\n\nNo regrets, huh?\n\nI think that takes a special personality."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I did fly for another 10 years for the Navy as an inactive reserve, they called us weekend warriors. I went over to nearby Norfolk [Virginia] on weekends and would fly SNJs [North American Aviation T-6 Texan]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was an easy commute. Didn’t have to go far."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then after retiring from NASA I worked another 15 years doing similar work for a company called Dynamic Engineering and did quite a bit of consulting for the FAA and others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to see it from a different angle. Did you do a lot of interaction with the FAA when you were here at NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.730792119000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I did fly for another 10 years for the Navy as an inactive reserve, they called us weekend warriors. I went over to nearby Norfolk [Virginia] on weekends and would fly SNJs [North American Aviation T-6 Texan]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was an easy commute. Didn’t have to go far."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then after retiring from NASA I worked another 15 years doing similar work for a company called Dynamic Engineering and did quite a bit of consulting for the FAA and others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to see it from a different angle. Did you do a lot of interaction with the FAA when you were here at NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the Lockheed investigation of the Electra we were heavily involved with the FAA at that time, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something that they did often like if airplanes crashed? You said with that one it’s because people were killed and there was a problem with the flutter. Did it happen throughout the time you were there that other aircraft that were having problems, they would come in and try to figure that out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.478657910000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then after retiring from NASA I worked another 15 years doing similar work for a company called Dynamic Engineering and did quite a bit of consulting for the FAA and others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to see it from a different angle. Did you do a lot of interaction with the FAA when you were here at NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the Lockheed investigation of the Electra we were heavily involved with the FAA at that time, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something that they did often like if airplanes crashed? You said with that one it’s because people were killed and there was a problem with the flutter. Did it happen throughout the time you were there that other aircraft that were having problems, they would come in and try to figure that out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my particular area, I’ve attended crash investigations for the National Transportation Safety Board. Also, I understand that NASA Langley was heavily involved in finding the cause of and cure for a structural failure in the vertical tail on a commercial transport aircraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s an interesting benefit.\n\nAll the years that you worked with the wind tunnel and technology has changed as our lives keep going on, there may even be some that say you don’t need wind tunnels because we have computer models. What’s the value of knowing that the wind tunnel does what it does?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.309619900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the Lockheed investigation of the Electra we were heavily involved with the FAA at that time, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something that they did often like if airplanes crashed? You said with that one it’s because people were killed and there was a problem with the flutter. Did it happen throughout the time you were there that other aircraft that were having problems, they would come in and try to figure that out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my particular area, I’ve attended crash investigations for the National Transportation Safety Board. Also, I understand that NASA Langley was heavily involved in finding the cause of and cure for a structural failure in the vertical tail on a commercial transport aircraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s an interesting benefit.\n\nAll the years that you worked with the wind tunnel and technology has changed as our lives keep going on, there may even be some that say you don’t need wind tunnels because we have computer models. What’s the value of knowing that the wind tunnel does what it does?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because wind tunnel testing is closer to mother nature. Things that may not be discovered on computers, because you didn’t know the right questions to ask, might be uncovered by testing in a real-life environment. That’s happened many times I think. Some may say wind tunnels are out of style now because we can do everything by analysis. I don’t agree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve seen many years of changes, plus you use a computer to help do your analysis, but yet the wind tunnel still offers its own unique benefit, doesn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.232911000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my particular area, I’ve attended crash investigations for the National Transportation Safety Board. Also, I understand that NASA Langley was heavily involved in finding the cause of and cure for a structural failure in the vertical tail on a commercial transport aircraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s an interesting benefit.\n\nAll the years that you worked with the wind tunnel and technology has changed as our lives keep going on, there may even be some that say you don’t need wind tunnels because we have computer models. What’s the value of knowing that the wind tunnel does what it does?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because wind tunnel testing is closer to mother nature. Things that may not be discovered on computers, because you didn’t know the right questions to ask, might be uncovered by testing in a real-life environment. That’s happened many times I think. Some may say wind tunnels are out of style now because we can do everything by analysis. I don’t agree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve seen many years of changes, plus you use a computer to help do your analysis, but yet the wind tunnel still offers its own unique benefit, doesn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Many of the wind tunnels that were active at Langley have now been destroyed or mothballed. At one time there were as many as 50; now you can probably count them on the fingers of one hand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re glad to see the one that you were with is still running."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.258790000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because wind tunnel testing is closer to mother nature. Things that may not be discovered on computers, because you didn’t know the right questions to ask, might be uncovered by testing in a real-life environment. That’s happened many times I think. Some may say wind tunnels are out of style now because we can do everything by analysis. I don’t agree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve seen many years of changes, plus you use a computer to help do your analysis, but yet the wind tunnel still offers its own unique benefit, doesn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Many of the wind tunnels that were active at Langley have now been destroyed or mothballed. At one time there were as many as 50; now you can probably count them on the fingers of one hand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re glad to see the one that you were with is still running."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’m certain the need for having the unique capabilities of TDT will be there for a long while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Are there other areas that you can think of that you wanted to share with us? Some other thoughts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.8431, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Many of the wind tunnels that were active at Langley have now been destroyed or mothballed. At one time there were as many as 50; now you can probably count them on the fingers of one hand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re glad to see the one that you were with is still running."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’m certain the need for having the unique capabilities of TDT will be there for a long while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Are there other areas that you can think of that you wanted to share with us? Some other thoughts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s interesting that one of my earlier projects at FRD involved shaking an airplane (F-86D) in flight. Then, 40 years later, I found myself again in the business of shaking airplanes in flight, this time, as a Designated Engineering Representative of the FAA for flutter and vibration certification. As a part of clearing a new or modified airplane for flutter, its structural vibration modes relating to flutter are measured as the airplane is shaken in flight. For this purpose, I helped develop and patent an in-flight shaker system while employed at Dynamic Engineering Inc. known as the DEI Flutter Exciter.\\n\\n It is an airfoil with a rotating cylinder that runs span wise behind the airfoil’s trailing edge. The cylinder is slotted on opposite sides so that when it rotates at controlled frequencies the air flow produces a sinusoidal lift force on the airfoil in much the same way an oscillating trailing-edge flap does. The device is in use worldwide in flight flutter testing of commercial and military aircraft. Last count, revenue from its sales exceeded $10 million."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I probably won’t now get into an airplane without thinking of you.\n\nWe’re all a little safer."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:92", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I might tell a little story here involving the DEI Flutter Exciter system. A company at a nearby airport was under contract with the Navy to tow target using Learjet aircraft with the target containers mounted under the wing. I was contacted by the company to do the analysis and flight tests required by the FAA to show that the target-carriage configurations would be flutter free. For the flight tests, we attached a DEI Flutter Exciter to each wing-tip tank. When the pilot came to inspect the setup we had a short conversation that went somewhat as follows:\\n\\n Pilot: Pointing to the flutter exciter, “Now tell me, just what this does.”\\n\\n Answer: “It shakes the wing in order to measure the vibrations at different frequencies and airspeeds.”\\n\\n Pilot: “Well, has this system been used before?”\\n\\n Answer: “Yes, it’s been fully tested in wind tunnels, but not yet in flight.”\\n\\n Pilot: “Oh? Where will you be during the flight test?”\\n\\n Answer: “I’ll be in the chase plane photographing the test plane.”\\n\\n Pilot: “The heck you will. You’ll be in the test plane WITH me.”\\n\\n Plans were changed accordingly and all flights in the program were successfully flown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If he was going to shake, he wanted you with him.\n\nYou’re used to pilots, so I’m sure nothing surprises you about pilots. I take it it all worked out well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, but I guess he had the right to be a little concerned. This was the first time for the system to be used in actual flight tests. It has since been used in research and flight testing of a large variety of military and civil transport aircraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of confidence they must have had. How big is the device, the flutter exciter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How big do you want it? They make all sizes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a perfect answer."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, but I guess he had the right to be a little concerned. This was the first time for the system to be used in actual flight tests. It has since been used in research and flight testing of a large variety of military and civil transport aircraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of confidence they must have had. How big is the device, the flutter exciter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How big do you want it? They make all sizes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a perfect answer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For wind tunnel models it’s the size of a business card. For fighter aircraft, like the F-16 or F-18, it’s about the size of this page. For the Lockheed 130J [Super Hercules], to be sure of having enough shaker force, it was designed to be about the size of a small playing-card table, which, in flight, produced much more force than needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They learned something, didn’t they?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How big do you want it? They make all sizes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a perfect answer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For wind tunnel models it’s the size of a business card. For fighter aircraft, like the F-16 or F-18, it’s about the size of this page. For the Lockheed 130J [Super Hercules], to be sure of having enough shaker force, it was designed to be about the size of a small playing-card table, which, in flight, produced much more force than needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They learned something, didn’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I retired from that company in 1996 and since then I just do just about whatever I want, i.e., with the wife’s permission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you’re busy. Thank you for that story. I’m glad you told us that. Anything else you can think of? That was a good one. Any more that you would like to share?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00980:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For wind tunnel models it’s the size of a business card. For fighter aircraft, like the F-16 or F-18, it’s about the size of this page. For the Lockheed 130J [Super Hercules], to be sure of having enough shaker force, it was designed to be about the size of a small playing-card table, which, in flight, produced much more force than needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They learned something, didn’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I retired from that company in 1996 and since then I just do just about whatever I want, i.e., with the wife’s permission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you’re busy. Thank you for that story. I’m glad you told us that. Anything else you can think of? That was a good one. Any more that you would like to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think that’s it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a good way to stop?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 21.68672072806463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Many places. My family was living in Seattle when I was born. My father had just come back from the Philippines after World War II, and he was there. We were there for a year while he did a graduate program in business administration. And then we moved when I was about a year to Harvard, where my father continued his education in the economics department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you lived in Cambridge?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived apparently in Quonset huts on the Harvard Yard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was a lot of World War II vets coming back, back to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have siblings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.07002559020324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was a lot of World War II vets coming back, back to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a brother who was a year and a half older, Jim, and he's still living and he is a radio astronomer at the University of Virginia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we moved four times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. What did your, your dad was in, in school there at Harvard. And what was your mom doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 24.90126616074474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we moved four times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. What did your, your dad was in, in school there at Harvard. And what was your mom doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was being a housewife and taking care of the two kids. They were living on the GI Bill. They, I think it was about two years that we were there. And my father finished a master's degree and was ABD and decided that the infighting in academic departments was not his cup of tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And especially, I think he was, he thought it was pathetic given that he had been in World War II, where he saw real fighting and was aware that what was going on in academics wasn't for him. So he then got a job with Continental Cab Company and they placed him in Seattle. So we went back to Seattle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Back to Seattle."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.725399735332307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was nine, the summer I was nine, which was after fourth grade, my father began a job with Whirlpool Corporation in St. Joseph, Michigan. He was not happy with having to commute into the city every day and wanted a different pace of life. And so we moved to St. Joseph, Michigan, which was very different than White Plains."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about 99.5 percent white. Anglo-Saxon primarily, I mean, I don't think there was any strong ethnic group. Maybe, maybe Dutch. A lot of southeast, I'm sorry, southwest Michigan is, is Dutch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is why we have Holland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Holland and the tulip, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.47266637259145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about 99.5 percent white. Anglo-Saxon primarily, I mean, I don't think there was any strong ethnic group. Maybe, maybe Dutch. A lot of southeast, I'm sorry, southwest Michigan is, is Dutch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is why we have Holland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Holland and the tulip, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Holland and the tulip. But the, there is a conservative Anglo- Saxon northern European bias. And I found that very difficult even as a, even as a ten year old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, and you might not have found it difficult had you not lived in White Plains where you were interacting with kids of a slightly different culture."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.904892143472496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I enjoyed them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I enjoyed that. And so when I got to St. Joe, it was painful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first year especially, I was very, very unhappy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was still just you and your older brother?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.560991270524996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I enjoyed that. And so when I got to St. Joe, it was painful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first year especially, I was very, very unhappy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was still just you and your older brother?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And there weren't really relatives around. We had grandparents that lived in New York State. My father was an only child, so there were no uncles on that side. My mother had one sister who lived in Ohio, so we were very much a nuclear family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you travel with your parents, the four of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.099989222870365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And there weren't really relatives around. We had grandparents that lived in New York State. My father was an only child, so there were no uncles on that side. My mother had one sister who lived in Ohio, so we were very much a nuclear family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you travel with your parents, the four of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there's this schlepping back and forth across the country, which I think was formative because I do have memories of all of those places except Harvard. But so the idea of moving was fundamental to our family, probably in the same way it might have been to a military family. I mean, it just happens. You do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you go to the new place and you adjust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. Yeah. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.821504683539649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when I moved to St. Joe, I found out it was not normative, that people had lived there and their parents had lived there and they had no idea or interest in going other places. And I thought that was strange and, and I felt sorry for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For not having had these opportunities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did adjust to St. Joe obviously, and made many good friends and remained in St. Joe through high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through high school. So when you were in high school, did you study a foreign language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.125314424123024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did adjust to St. Joe obviously, and made many good friends and remained in St. Joe through high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through high school. So when you were in high school, did you study a foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was middling at it, I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you involved in extracurricular activities as a high school kid? What was fun?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.8337215112629925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was middling at it, I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you involved in extracurricular activities as a high school kid? What was fun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a fair artistic talent and so I took art classes when I could and also had special classes on Saturday. My mother arranged for me to go to a Saturday art class that was taught by the art teacher in the high school who actually was the mother of one of my classmates. And she had a group on Saturday morning, so I had that training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also, when I was 15, went to Chicago to the School of the Art Institute for six weeks, and that involved my taking a train from St. Joe to Chicago and then a cab and going up to, uh, a place for single women comparable to the Barbizon Hotel. I'm a little surprised in retrospect my parents let me do that, but they did it because of a family friend who was four years older. Their daughter was also doing this, so they knew I had some supervision and I was in a supervised residence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you are on the train and then having to hail a cab to take you up to the residence, were you all by yourself or you with your friend?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.481912790292213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a fair artistic talent and so I took art classes when I could and also had special classes on Saturday. My mother arranged for me to go to a Saturday art class that was taught by the art teacher in the high school who actually was the mother of one of my classmates. And she had a group on Saturday morning, so I had that training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also, when I was 15, went to Chicago to the School of the Art Institute for six weeks, and that involved my taking a train from St. Joe to Chicago and then a cab and going up to, uh, a place for single women comparable to the Barbizon Hotel. I'm a little surprised in retrospect my parents let me do that, but they did it because of a family friend who was four years older. Their daughter was also doing this, so they knew I had some supervision and I was in a supervised residence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you are on the train and then having to hail a cab to take you up to the residence, were you all by yourself or you with your friend?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was with my friend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she had done it before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.00236146949656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was with my friend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she had done it before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, actually, she had not done it before, but I was not alone. The two of us did it together and she was four years older so I had some guidance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we would take the train back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the distance between the Art Institute and the women's residence?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.669290521662845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, actually, she had not done it before, but I was not alone. The two of us did it together and she was four years older so I had some guidance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we would take the train back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the distance between the Art Institute and the women's residence?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think it was several miles. The women's residence was in a part of Chicago called Old Town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, sure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.888012989707215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think it was several miles. The women's residence was in a part of Chicago called Old Town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "North Avenue. Well, very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do remember. I do remember taking a subway ride because I would come home on Fridays separately from her. And I remember one time taking the subway from Old Town, and I was going into downtown Chicago, and I had never taken a subway before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were alone."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.269151839144708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do remember. I do remember taking a subway ride because I would come home on Fridays separately from her. And I remember one time taking the subway from Old Town, and I was going into downtown Chicago, and I had never taken a subway before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were alone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was alone. And I wasn't that familiar with the place names along the way. And I had never been in a subway, so I had no way of judging how fast we were going or where we were in relation to my goal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a little unnerving. It was terrifying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can just imagine, so every time the subway train stopped you were craning your neck to see what's the name of the stop? Is this where I'm supposed to get off?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.076835376827454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was alone. And I wasn't that familiar with the place names along the way. And I had never been in a subway, so I had no way of judging how fast we were going or where we were in relation to my goal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a little unnerving. It was terrifying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can just imagine, so every time the subway train stopped you were craning your neck to see what's the name of the stop? Is this where I'm supposed to get off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's all going very fast because everyone knows what they're doing. I think actually I got off at the wrong stop because it seemed like we were going so fast that I had the feeling that we were farther along than we were. But, you know, I figured out I got off at the wrong stop and figured out how to get back on so I could go to the right stop. And, and so that problem was solved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. At age 15."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.974261529808281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a little unnerving. It was terrifying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can just imagine, so every time the subway train stopped you were craning your neck to see what's the name of the stop? Is this where I'm supposed to get off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's all going very fast because everyone knows what they're doing. I think actually I got off at the wrong stop because it seemed like we were going so fast that I had the feeling that we were farther along than we were. But, you know, I figured out I got off at the wrong stop and figured out how to get back on so I could go to the right stop. And, and so that problem was solved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. At age 15."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You figured out that you can get lost and then found again."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.079335221985533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You figured out that you can get lost and then found again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Uh. So back to the, this is all part of the art training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was used to being gone from home for a period of time and to be on my own pretty much in a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a big city."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.728854899842979, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a, in a big city, but in a, in a supervised environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, perfect."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where I had a place to live that was supervised. And then of course, I had the structure of the art classes, which were all day long, plus then just the fun of exploring. I mean, I enjoyed, I enjoyed exploring around Old Town, you know, figuring out where to eat and taking in the neighborhood and. And then in my senior year, I was president of the art club for the, for the high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my real primary interest. This was before girls did sports. And I was not musical at all. So outlets that other girls had like band or orchestra were not something that I could accomplish. So I made the best of what I could do with art."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you finished high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.143172110936643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where I had a place to live that was supervised. And then of course, I had the structure of the art classes, which were all day long, plus then just the fun of exploring. I mean, I enjoyed, I enjoyed exploring around Old Town, you know, figuring out where to eat and taking in the neighborhood and. And then in my senior year, I was president of the art club for the, for the high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my real primary interest. This was before girls did sports. And I was not musical at all. So outlets that other girls had like band or orchestra were not something that I could accomplish. So I made the best of what I could do with art."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you finished high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Finished high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any family vacations? Did you ever travel for fun with your mom and dad?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.381302345485159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my real primary interest. This was before girls did sports. And I was not musical at all. So outlets that other girls had like band or orchestra were not something that I could accomplish. So I made the best of what I could do with art."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you finished high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Finished high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any family vacations? Did you ever travel for fun with your mom and dad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father liked fishing probably more than anything else. And so the family vacations were always organized around a fishing trip. And the one I remember in particular was when we were 13. When I was 13, I'm sorry. The vacation was to drive from St. Joseph, Michigan, out west to Jackson Hole, Wyoming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That's a long drive."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.312558161650175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Finished high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any family vacations? Did you ever travel for fun with your mom and dad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father liked fishing probably more than anything else. And so the family vacations were always organized around a fishing trip. And the one I remember in particular was when we were 13. When I was 13, I'm sorry. The vacation was to drive from St. Joseph, Michigan, out west to Jackson Hole, Wyoming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That's a long drive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Long drive. This is in a 1956 station wagon with no air conditioning and no radio. And it's a three day drive. And it's summer. So I remember seeing a lot of countryside out the window and being bored and hot and. I think it was an introduction to how large America was. This huge central section that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Went on forever."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.236175735166862, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father liked fishing probably more than anything else. And so the family vacations were always organized around a fishing trip. And the one I remember in particular was when we were 13. When I was 13, I'm sorry. The vacation was to drive from St. Joseph, Michigan, out west to Jackson Hole, Wyoming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That's a long drive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Long drive. This is in a 1956 station wagon with no air conditioning and no radio. And it's a three day drive. And it's summer. So I remember seeing a lot of countryside out the window and being bored and hot and. I think it was an introduction to how large America was. This huge central section that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Went on forever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went on forever. And then the Jackson Hole was gorgeous, and we spent quite a bit of time. And we camped also, begin to camping."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you fish, too, alongside your father and your brother?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.262417483518735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Long drive. This is in a 1956 station wagon with no air conditioning and no radio. And it's a three day drive. And it's summer. So I remember seeing a lot of countryside out the window and being bored and hot and. I think it was an introduction to how large America was. This huge central section that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Went on forever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went on forever. And then the Jackson Hole was gorgeous, and we spent quite a bit of time. And we camped also, begin to camping."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you fish, too, alongside your father and your brother?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my brother spent his time with his nose in a science fiction book. He would have no part of this. I had my drawing materials along, some watercolors. So I spent, I spent time doing that. And I don't think I fished. My father's idea of fishing was to go to a trout stream in a remote location as possible and commune with nature. So having a kid along was, uh, did not facilitate his goal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was just as happy that you stayed back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.402686092798595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went on forever. And then the Jackson Hole was gorgeous, and we spent quite a bit of time. And we camped also, begin to camping."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you fish, too, alongside your father and your brother?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my brother spent his time with his nose in a science fiction book. He would have no part of this. I had my drawing materials along, some watercolors. So I spent, I spent time doing that. And I don't think I fished. My father's idea of fishing was to go to a trout stream in a remote location as possible and commune with nature. So having a kid along was, uh, did not facilitate his goal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was just as happy that you stayed back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your watercolors."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.66965121422066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my brother spent his time with his nose in a science fiction book. He would have no part of this. I had my drawing materials along, some watercolors. So I spent, I spent time doing that. And I don't think I fished. My father's idea of fishing was to go to a trout stream in a remote location as possible and commune with nature. So having a kid along was, uh, did not facilitate his goal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was just as happy that you stayed back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your watercolors."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I did my watercolors. It was just fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did he catch fish that you'd bring back to camp and then you and your mom would cook them up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.799247207435746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, he was, he was very good. And we ate a lot of trout."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my mother was the perfect '50s wife, I guess. And she would, he'd clean them. I remember that. I watched him clean fish. And then she'd cook them and we'd have dinner. And after dinner we'd play cards or games, you know, around the, around the Coleman lantern."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that would be repeated the next day. So we had a very nice time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds idyllic."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 15.332496897150829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my mother was the perfect '50s wife, I guess. And she would, he'd clean them. I remember that. I watched him clean fish. And then she'd cook them and we'd have dinner. And after dinner we'd play cards or games, you know, around the, around the Coleman lantern."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that would be repeated the next day. So we had a very nice time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds idyllic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So again, the idea of moving, moving, going somewhere, was part of my upbringing. It was normal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. But not internationally. You didn't like all pack up and go to Paris?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.589158981002508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It wasn't until I was in college. My freshman year of college, and also my sophomore year in the spring, on the spring break, my parents took my brother and I to the Virgin Islands and we stayed on Saint John two years, which was absolutely glorious environment. But the thing that struck me among other parts of those trips were the fact that, A, it was outside of the United States. It was English speaking, but it was a patois English. It wasn't English that was the kind of English I was used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the airplane landed. These were propeller planes, and it landed in St. Thomas. And then we took a boat over to St. John. And St. Thomas is a duty-free port. And it was full of tourists from all over the world. And it also had, um, a wide range, a wide economic range. I could see that even as an inexperienced young person, that there were people that were living in shanties and there were people who were living in these gorgeous homes on the hillside and everything in between."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the shops had very expensive watches and jewelry and trying on anything you wanted. And yet people in the street seemed to be living at subsistence or slightly above subsistence level. So these economic contrasts with people side by side were, that made a powerful impact, a powerful impression on me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so where did you go to college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.0236530629660585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the shops had very expensive watches and jewelry and trying on anything you wanted. And yet people in the street seemed to be living at subsistence or slightly above subsistence level. So these economic contrasts with people side by side were, that made a powerful impact, a powerful impression on me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so where did you go to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Cornell University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of, I think, the heritage that I grew up with. Both parents had gone to Cornell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. And your brother too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.804058958851176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Cornell University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of, I think, the heritage that I grew up with. Both parents had gone to Cornell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. And your brother too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my brother also. And I was competitive. I hate to admit it, but I was competitive. And I remember thinking, I'm going to do this too, because if my brother can do it, I can do it. And so I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you studying? What was your major?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.236020519686113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started out as a freshman, we had to declare majors, I declared sociology because I was, I knew I was interested in people in the broad sense of the word. And it turned out that sociology was, to my way of looking at it, statistics. They were dealing with large aggregates. They were not dealing with individuals. It was large demographic and economic and social movements and that did not interest me at all. So then I was in a position of having to rethink what my major would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I decided as a default, and this was a very common default in the mid sixties, on English literature. English Department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I had, as a minor, I took studio art classes as a minor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any, were you thinking about career at that time? Did you have any idea of what your life's work might be, or were you just still kind of searching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.040022799651236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I decided as a default, and this was a very common default in the mid sixties, on English literature. English Department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I had, as a minor, I took studio art classes as a minor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any, were you thinking about career at that time? Did you have any idea of what your life's work might be, or were you just still kind of searching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no idea. And, and the expectation in my family, even though it was a highly educated family, was that I would go to college and repeat my mother's footsteps and meet and marry a Cornellian. And be a homemaker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it didn't matter."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.481509629199056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no idea. And, and the expectation in my family, even though it was a highly educated family, was that I would go to college and repeat my mother's footsteps and meet and marry a Cornellian. And be a homemaker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it didn't matter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't matter. I was there to, to get an education. And I remember them saying this because I said, why? Why are you sending me if you are expecting me to get married at the end of it? And the answer was, well, it will make you a better wife and mother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. And I remember very clearly one spring, it must have been at the end of the academic year. My brother at that point had a car and he drove us home from Ithaca to St. Joe, it was a 12 hour drive. And we talked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the two of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.6561847274062425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. And I remember very clearly one spring, it must have been at the end of the academic year. My brother at that point had a car and he drove us home from Ithaca to St. Joe, it was a 12 hour drive. And we talked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the two of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the two of us. And we'd always gotten along well so it was a comfortable experience. And I remember asking him, because he had just graduated, I remember asking him what he was going to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he said, with complete matter-of-factness, I'm going to be an astronomer. And I said, well, when did you decide you're going to be an astronomer? And he said, well, I've known that for years. And I said, well, how did you come to know that? And he said that that was his interest. And people had supported him. And people had asked him growing up what he wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are you going to be when you grow up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.284649697118047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the two of us. And we'd always gotten along well so it was a comfortable experience. And I remember asking him, because he had just graduated, I remember asking him what he was going to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he said, with complete matter-of-factness, I'm going to be an astronomer. And I said, well, when did you decide you're going to be an astronomer? And he said, well, I've known that for years. And I said, well, how did you come to know that? And he said that that was his interest. And people had supported him. And people had asked him growing up what he wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are you going to be when you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you want to be when you grow up? And a light bulb went off. And I thought, and I said to him, no one has ever asked me that question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, cause you're just a girl."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.620918651739434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm just a girl. So that question was never asked. And I thought, how stunning that that's a question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a question. And it's a question that nobody's asked me and probably nobody will. But I'm going to ask myself. It, it made that question a pivotal, uh, it was a pivotal realization for me that, in fact, not only were girls treated differently, which I knew in many ways. Girls had curfews, girls had, were expected to do this kind of activity and not that kind of activity. But that there was this huge divide in terms of a boy would be asked, what do you want to do? And a girl would be told, you can go to college. We expect you to go to college. We even are happy to send you to an Ivy League college. So you can get the best husband possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was offended."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course you were. And you probably understood that you were the intellectual equal of your brother."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.578798501932704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a question. And it's a question that nobody's asked me and probably nobody will. But I'm going to ask myself. It, it made that question a pivotal, uh, it was a pivotal realization for me that, in fact, not only were girls treated differently, which I knew in many ways. Girls had curfews, girls had, were expected to do this kind of activity and not that kind of activity. But that there was this huge divide in terms of a boy would be asked, what do you want to do? And a girl would be told, you can go to college. We expect you to go to college. We even are happy to send you to an Ivy League college. So you can get the best husband possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was offended."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course you were. And you probably understood that you were the intellectual equal of your brother."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Well, not quite. He's very smart. He's, he's, he's in a category by himself. And I knew that for a long time, but I figured that I was at least good enough. I was good enough that I could do something. I could ask myself the question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you're in college, you graduate from Cornell. Are you studying languages at Cornell?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.531998335480782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was offended."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course you were. And you probably understood that you were the intellectual equal of your brother."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Well, not quite. He's very smart. He's, he's, he's in a category by himself. And I knew that for a long time, but I figured that I was at least good enough. I was good enough that I could do something. I could ask myself the question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you're in college, you graduate from Cornell. Are you studying languages at Cornell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a requirement for French, a certain number of credits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had your high school French."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.591109261645313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Well, not quite. He's very smart. He's, he's, he's in a category by himself. And I knew that for a long time, but I figured that I was at least good enough. I was good enough that I could do something. I could ask myself the question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you're in college, you graduate from Cornell. Are you studying languages at Cornell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a requirement for French, a certain number of credits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had your high school French."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had my high school French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To build on."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.075443532895449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had my high school French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To build on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I knew enough about other languages. But I must say I was never fluent and I never spoke it and I, I never was around native speakers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I didn't really understand the function of other languages, that people actually use these to communicate, to communicate with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You would have had to zoom up to Quebec or something."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 14.528270592106054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I knew enough about other languages. But I must say I was never fluent and I never spoke it and I, I never was around native speakers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I didn't really understand the function of other languages, that people actually use these to communicate, to communicate with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You would have had to zoom up to Quebec or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do in the summers? Did you, did you have a summer job?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.183050113711179, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do in the summers? Did you, did you have a summer job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Summers, the summer was important. The summer after my sophomore year, I went to the University of Michigan by myself and took a summer program for six weeks in the School of, I think at that time it was called Art and Architecture. But I took, again, studio art classes, two studio art classes. Lived with some people that were advertising a room in a basement near campus and got a job for a few hours a week working in a Hallmark store near the campus to make some spending money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again made new friends and, or new acquaintances. And I think I stayed there most weekends, I didn't come home. I only came home once. Then my."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So working in the Hallmark store, you would have sort of gotten an idea of what the life is like of people who do that every day, all year round, selling, selling things in the card shop."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.981166793012422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Summers, the summer was important. The summer after my sophomore year, I went to the University of Michigan by myself and took a summer program for six weeks in the School of, I think at that time it was called Art and Architecture. But I took, again, studio art classes, two studio art classes. Lived with some people that were advertising a room in a basement near campus and got a job for a few hours a week working in a Hallmark store near the campus to make some spending money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again made new friends and, or new acquaintances. And I think I stayed there most weekends, I didn't come home. I only came home once. Then my."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So working in the Hallmark store, you would have sort of gotten an idea of what the life is like of people who do that every day, all year round, selling, selling things in the card shop."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew from the first hour that, A, I wasn't good at it because I was bored and I didn't know the stock and I was getting paid minimum wage and I did not like it at all. So that was a strong motivator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back to Cornell."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.867963103347135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again made new friends and, or new acquaintances. And I think I stayed there most weekends, I didn't come home. I only came home once. Then my."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So working in the Hallmark store, you would have sort of gotten an idea of what the life is like of people who do that every day, all year round, selling, selling things in the card shop."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew from the first hour that, A, I wasn't good at it because I was bored and I didn't know the stock and I was getting paid minimum wage and I did not like it at all. So that was a strong motivator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back to Cornell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To go back to Cornell, because I was, I had no skill for that kind of work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was boring."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.392547041169301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To go back to Cornell, because I was, I had no skill for that kind of work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was boring."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was boring and it didn't pay well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The summer after my junior year, I went to Rome and took again a six week summer art program for credit that was offered by Temple University. And that was a very interesting and informative experience for me because, again, I went by myself. I got on a plane in New York, got off in Rome, and didn't speak a word of Italian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. But you heard people speaking Italian to one another all around you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.286072758805625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody was chattering away and I was in this bubble of, of incomprehension."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had, uh, I don't know what I had. Perhaps gumption. I didn't have, I didn't have much knowledge. I had no knowledge. But I thought, you know, I've got to figure this out. I guess that was the bottom line. I'm here. I chose this. I want to do this. I've got some material here. I have an address or two, so I just have to go figure it out. So. And I don't remember how I figured it out, but I ended up going to a pensione that had been recommended by the Temple University program where people could stay, you know, rent a room and stay. The lady that owned the pensione was very nice and she spoke Italian and a little bit of French and I had a little bit of French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we communicated in this pastiche of her, her French as a second language, my French as an almost no language, and I would say probably no English. And over time I picked up a little Italian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lots of sign language, drawing pictures?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4149046405007715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we communicated in this pastiche of her, her French as a second language, my French as an almost no language, and I would say probably no English. And over time I picked up a little Italian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lots of sign language, drawing pictures?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lots of sign language, uh, and not too much drawing pictures. But I realized that, again, people who didn't speak the same language, who had a completely different cultural background, different ages, different everything, in fact, could communicate and, and you really needed to communicate. It wasn't, it wasn't an option. I remember going for several days without eating when I got there because I had no idea how to order off a menu. And I didn't even really understand how the restaurants were set up or where to get food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And after three days, you get pretty hungry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, no kidding."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.016560711667523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lots of sign language, uh, and not too much drawing pictures. But I realized that, again, people who didn't speak the same language, who had a completely different cultural background, different ages, different everything, in fact, could communicate and, and you really needed to communicate. It wasn't, it wasn't an option. I remember going for several days without eating when I got there because I had no idea how to order off a menu. And I didn't even really understand how the restaurants were set up or where to get food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And after three days, you get pretty hungry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, no kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's a, that's a strong motivating motivator. So after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was other American students at the school that you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.646859686786725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I arrived a little early, so I eventually had a roommate in this pensione. We shared a room. She was in the same program. But the first three days I was pretty much on my, I was on my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I kept thinking, well, I'll figure this out. But I kept getting hungrier and hungrier. And finally after the third day, I thought, you know, it doesn't matter that I don't understand a word of Italian and I can't read the menu and I don't even know how to order or anything. I just have to eat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I went to a restaurant and muddled my way through somehow and had eggplant parmesan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.971431712082377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I went to a restaurant and muddled my way through somehow and had eggplant parmesan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was delicious. And it was an outdoor restaurant that I remember. And then I went to a coffee shop and ordered myself a cappuccino, even though I didn't know what a cappuccino was. And so I guess it was just a step by step process. A lot of hit and miss, sort of bumbling around. When I got to the program, the art program, the actual classes, then of course it was an American speaking population of students and teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was helpful because then I could get information in English about things that were of interest to see, places to go. [tape break] Yes, it's still going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We might have to wait for, if there's a little lead tape in here. Not sure, but I think we can just keep on going."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.5238130134248635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was delicious. And it was an outdoor restaurant that I remember. And then I went to a coffee shop and ordered myself a cappuccino, even though I didn't know what a cappuccino was. And so I guess it was just a step by step process. A lot of hit and miss, sort of bumbling around. When I got to the program, the art program, the actual classes, then of course it was an American speaking population of students and teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was helpful because then I could get information in English about things that were of interest to see, places to go. [tape break] Yes, it's still going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We might have to wait for, if there's a little lead tape in here. Not sure, but I think we can just keep on going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, part of that experience was that the roommate that I had was somebody that was part of the Temple program, she and I just had met and decided to buddy up. Um. She had a friend who was coming back from Africa and coming through Rome on her way back to the United States. And this friend had just completed two years of service in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, so you're, now you're meeting somebody who is a Peace Corps volunteer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.58495433756156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, part of that experience was that the roommate that I had was somebody that was part of the Temple program, she and I just had met and decided to buddy up. Um. She had a friend who was coming back from Africa and coming through Rome on her way back to the United States. And this friend had just completed two years of service in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, so you're, now you're meeting somebody who is a Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So here's the flesh and blood. And it was a young woman and she was a couple of years older than I was, but she wasn't markedly different. In other words, there was an analog, I could see an analog. You know, she's female, she's single. She did this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that means that, at least hypothetically, I could do the same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And you, wait, you were in Rome when you met her?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.205504819512844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So here's the flesh and blood. And it was a young woman and she was a couple of years older than I was, but she wasn't markedly different. In other words, there was an analog, I could see an analog. You know, she's female, she's single. She did this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that means that, at least hypothetically, I could do the same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And you, wait, you were in Rome when you met her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she was traveling through. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.78389424390316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that means that, at least hypothetically, I could do the same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And you, wait, you were in Rome when you met her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she was traveling through. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just so happened that her, my roommate at that point was her friend. So she came and stayed for a couple of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.443826008082852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it seemed to me like it was, again, a step beyond what I had already done, because I had been in Chicago and I'd been in Ann Arbor and then I'd been now in Rome. So, you know, Africa was a big step."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was a step that was at least imaginable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It made, it made it imaginable. It made, it made something that had been a kind of a thought in the back of my mind, uh, visible. Here's, here's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Here's a person who actually."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.270917786758725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was a step that was at least imaginable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It made, it made it imaginable. It made, it made something that had been a kind of a thought in the back of my mind, uh, visible. Here's, here's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Here's a person who actually."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's a representation. This person is a living, breathing confirmation that this can be done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she's not exactly Superman. She's an ordinary person."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.008105146713494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had growing up in St. Joe, Michigan, been aware in 1961 of Kennedy's speech, I was in the ninth grade, of Kennedy's speech. And I remember hearing this proposal about a Peace Corps and what it would be like, loosely speaking. And thinking to myself, and I didn't say it to anyone, but thinking to myself, I'd like to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really with no background information other than that sounds like something I'd like to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's ninth grade. And then when I finished my junior year of college and then I meet an actual Peace Corps volunteer who is female coming back from Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you have another year at Cornell left before you can do anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.675672385237216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really with no background information other than that sounds like something I'd like to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's ninth grade. And then when I finished my junior year of college and then I meet an actual Peace Corps volunteer who is female coming back from Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you have another year at Cornell left before you can do anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have another year at Cornell, so I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back to Cornell."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.417413761374684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's ninth grade. And then when I finished my junior year of college and then I meet an actual Peace Corps volunteer who is female coming back from Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you have another year at Cornell left before you can do anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have another year at Cornell, so I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back to Cornell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Go back to Cornell. It's the height of the anti-war era."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where are we now, 1967?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.0376676747061175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know I'm going to graduate in June, I guess, of '68. I have no idea what I want to do with my life. Other than I do not want to be the things that my parents thought would be my future."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father, even though he was an executive, his career consultation, if one can call it that, with me was that I would be a right hand gal to an executive. And he had a high regard for these right hand gals because he was an executive and they made his life possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it wasn't for him denigrating. He, he had tremendous regard for these women. But it offended me, again, because our whole life, when I say our I mean my whole family life, up until that point had been dictated by his, his choices. His career choices. Every single move we made, that's predicated on decisions that involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And your mother was willing to say."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.453910709513725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it wasn't for him denigrating. He, he had tremendous regard for these women. But it offended me, again, because our whole life, when I say our I mean my whole family life, up until that point had been dictated by his, his choices. His career choices. Every single move we made, that's predicated on decisions that involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And your mother was willing to say."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, dear. Of course we'll move to St Joseph, Michigan. I don't think she was a yes, she wasn't a yes woman. But on the other hand, she fully embraced her role."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was available to her as an educated woman at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that time and in that age, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.251521125698526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, it offended me. And I think partly it offended me because I had a brother who was 18 months older and I could see that there really wasn't that much difference between us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As people there was no difference other than he was a boy and I was a girl. And so I became more and more offended."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you mention to your parents after you got back from Rome that you were thinking about Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.279467917442807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As people there was no difference other than he was a boy and I was a girl. And so I became more and more offended."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you mention to your parents after you got back from Rome that you were thinking about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not yet. Not yet. No. I don't even think I was thinking consciously about it as a, as a, as a goal at that point. It was still there, but it wasn't that I was thinking of it as a goal. I met a young man right at the beginning of the year who was a graduate student, uh, first year graduate student in philosophy, and um, we spent quite a bit of time together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this would be David Eger?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.199408797158673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As people there was no difference other than he was a boy and I was a girl. And so I became more and more offended."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you mention to your parents after you got back from Rome that you were thinking about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not yet. Not yet. No. I don't even think I was thinking consciously about it as a, as a, as a goal at that point. It was still there, but it wasn't that I was thinking of it as a goal. I met a young man right at the beginning of the year who was a graduate student, uh, first year graduate student in philosophy, and um, we spent quite a bit of time together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this would be David Eger?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, this is David Eger. We spent a lot of time together. We had a lot in common. And somewhere around the middle of the year, around wintertime, um, discussions arose about what I was going to do and so forth when I graduated. I knew that I didn't want any more academic schooling at that point. But that didn't answer the question of what I did want to do, because mostly at that point I knew what I didn't want to do. I didn't want to go to, uh, through more schooling. Uh, I did not want to become somebody's right hand gal and I did not want to work in a Hallmark card shop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. But you might want to join the Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.760415785945243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew that I also didn't want to protest the war by getting on a bus in Ithaca and driving all night on the bus and getting out in Washington, D.C. and participating in a march. That wasn't my style. I just didn't feel like that was an expression of who I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so then the question became for me, what is the expression of who I am? Because now I've got all these expressions of who I am not. So David and I began to talk about ways to make a contribution because he had been involved also in an anti-war summer program at Wesleyan where he had graduated. So he, he had a strong anti-war agenda too, but again in an affirmative direction, which is to say education and voter registration and trying to change people's hearts and minds, if you will, rather than protesting in large demonstrations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so in this context, I said, well, how about we consider the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Something else occurs to me. In 1967, 1968, David was very much eligible for the draft."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.400461984383603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so then the question became for me, what is the expression of who I am? Because now I've got all these expressions of who I am not. So David and I began to talk about ways to make a contribution because he had been involved also in an anti-war summer program at Wesleyan where he had graduated. So he, he had a strong anti-war agenda too, but again in an affirmative direction, which is to say education and voter registration and trying to change people's hearts and minds, if you will, rather than protesting in large demonstrations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so in this context, I said, well, how about we consider the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Something else occurs to me. In 1967, 1968, David was very much eligible for the draft."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps would serve a purpose for him in a way that it wouldn't for you, that it would give him two years’ time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.487672587080631, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But when the announcement came that there would be a draft and that everybody would have a number and the number would be drawn on a lottery basis, so you had no say so. And if you hadn't completed two years of graduate school by that point, you would be eligible for the draft. So we knew that he would be eligible for the draft. He had only, by the end of that year would have only completed one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That galvanized, I think, our thinking into what are the affirmative ways that we can address the larger issue of our antiwar sentiments, but also the very specific issue of your draft eligibility. Because he, he was, he eventually became a conscientious objector."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that way of thinking was already well established in him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, he had to document it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.986302874534035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That galvanized, I think, our thinking into what are the affirmative ways that we can address the larger issue of our antiwar sentiments, but also the very specific issue of your draft eligibility. Because he, he was, he eventually became a conscientious objector."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that way of thinking was already well established in him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, he had to document it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I understood fully. I mean, if I had been a male, that would have been a position I would have taken. A lot of people from Cornell at that point were going to Canada. They were sort of disappearing, if you will, into the woods. I don't know. You know, building a yurt in the, in the woods. People sort of vanished who might be eligible. Our thinking then was, okay. And at that point, I proposed the Peace Corps. I said, I've thought about this in the back of my mind since I was in ninth grade, and he had not ever thought of it. But I said, let's think about it seriously. Let's find out more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the, but the other thing that you haven't mentioned is that you're also talking about getting married and spending your lives together."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.599912931769599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there was no point that we had identified that we would get married. Things changed dramatically with the decision to pursue a Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Peace Corps. When we applied, we applied separately as individuals because we were not married. And the Peace Corps position at that time was if you apply as an individual, we will treat you as an individual and we can send you or offer you placements anywhere in the world. And it's completely autonomous from this other person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "David Eger, that you are applying in effect with, that you want to be placed with. They said we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They can't promise to give you the same placement."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.348899454000302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So once that became clear, because we decided we wanted to be together, I mean, we had already decided to be together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It became quite clear that we needed to be married if we wanted to end up in the same place, which is what we wanted to do. So this is where the cart gets a little before the horse, and that is that we got married right after I graduated. So it would have been late May of 1968. I think we would have married eventually, but it would not have been necessarily that soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed the summer at Cornell. Now, once we had applied to and let the Peace Corps know that we were getting married, then they did process our applications together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I have to ask you, at this point, did your Peace Corps application ask you a question about if you had a preference for any particular country or any particular part of the world?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.276554948889224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It became quite clear that we needed to be married if we wanted to end up in the same place, which is what we wanted to do. So this is where the cart gets a little before the horse, and that is that we got married right after I graduated. So it would have been late May of 1968. I think we would have married eventually, but it would not have been necessarily that soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed the summer at Cornell. Now, once we had applied to and let the Peace Corps know that we were getting married, then they did process our applications together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I have to ask you, at this point, did your Peace Corps application ask you a question about if you had a preference for any particular country or any particular part of the world?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. And I think what I recall the preference is that we put down, one was Asia and one was, uh, South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Mm hmm."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.312862479351841, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cornell had a very extensive Southeast Asian Department. And I went to that department and I said, do you have anything about Korea?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that shows my naivete right there, because they said, well, I'm sorry, but Korea is in East Asia, but not Southeast Asia. And we only are devoted to Southeast Asia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, Cambodia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was a big education in geography."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There you go."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.014291643724268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that shows my naivete right there, because they said, well, I'm sorry, but Korea is in East Asia, but not Southeast Asia. And we only are devoted to Southeast Asia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, Cambodia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was a big education in geography."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There you go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, that the world, at least as far as humans were concerned in terms of studies, was divided up into regions and that didn't communicate. So they were of no help. So we went to the library and looked up Korea, and there were a couple of books on the Korean War. That was it. This is, this is an Ivy League library in 1968. And there was nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing about Korea."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.793657381915853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was a big education in geography."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There you go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, that the world, at least as far as humans were concerned in terms of studies, was divided up into regions and that didn't communicate. So they were of no help. So we went to the library and looked up Korea, and there were a couple of books on the Korean War. That was it. This is, this is an Ivy League library in 1968. And there was nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing about Korea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. Nothing about the people, nothing about the culture, nothing about the language, nothing about anything other than the Korean War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The war. And the United States involvement?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.177354792488707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. Nothing about the people, nothing about the culture, nothing about the language, nothing about anything other than the Korean War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The war. And the United States involvement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the United States involvement. So it was only military discussion. And so we could not educate ourselves as to whether or not we wanted to go to Korea because we couldn't learn anything about Korea. On the other hand, it was like, well, why not?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, why not? So we said, yes, we'll go. And we spent the summer in Ithaca. Maybe a month into the fall. And then we. By this point, the Peace Corps was sort of in loco parentis. In other words, they told us you need to be in Los Angeles on this flight at this time, and then you need to be going with your group of other trainees to Hilo, Hawaii, for this period of time. And then you will be placed in country at this period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So somewhere around here you have told your, your parents and your brother that you and your husband, David, had applied to the Peace Corps. What was their response?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.752616436098563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the United States involvement. So it was only military discussion. And so we could not educate ourselves as to whether or not we wanted to go to Korea because we couldn't learn anything about Korea. On the other hand, it was like, well, why not?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, why not? So we said, yes, we'll go. And we spent the summer in Ithaca. Maybe a month into the fall. And then we. By this point, the Peace Corps was sort of in loco parentis. In other words, they told us you need to be in Los Angeles on this flight at this time, and then you need to be going with your group of other trainees to Hilo, Hawaii, for this period of time. And then you will be placed in country at this period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So somewhere around here you have told your, your parents and your brother that you and your husband, David, had applied to the Peace Corps. What was their response?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no recollection at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you and, you are totally deviating from their program and what all their assumptions about what your, the trajectory of your life would be like."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.891106222357425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I have, I have no recollection, so it must not have been either strongly favorable or strongly negative. My brother is a very scientifically minded person and very practical. And I think his reaction probably would have been, if that's what you want to do, go ahead and do it. My parents, I don't remember, and I'm not sure at that point that I was even listening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably was not listening because I think I had stopped listening a long time earlier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, um, did, there was some sort of going away party for you before you left to go to Hawaii?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.2976620029104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, um, did, there was some sort of going away party for you before you left to go to Hawaii?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't, I don't think so. I just remember feeling I think that my parental family was, uh, I'm tempted to say toast, but that sounds much too harsh. That I had moved beyond that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that we had made friends, David and I had made friends in Ithaca, a couple that I had mentioned to you, the Darling. The Darlings, Ruth and Doug Darling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, these are more or less your parents age, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.886291114344888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't, I don't think so. I just remember feeling I think that my parental family was, uh, I'm tempted to say toast, but that sounds much too harsh. That I had moved beyond that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that we had made friends, David and I had made friends in Ithaca, a couple that I had mentioned to you, the Darling. The Darlings, Ruth and Doug Darling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, these are more or less your parents age, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were our parents’ age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But thinking in a different way."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.540323460383209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that we had made friends, David and I had made friends in Ithaca, a couple that I had mentioned to you, the Darling. The Darlings, Ruth and Doug Darling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, these are more or less your parents age, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were our parents’ age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But thinking in a different way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very different thinking, especially Ruth, who was the dean of students at the time at Cornell. And she became, I think, my mother surrogate model. And even before we went into the Peace Corps, because David was supporting himself through graduate school by working in the Dean of Students office. So he worked with her every day and we got to know them quite well. And I just admired her tremendously. So, and she was another example of a woman who had not been, if you will, deviant, but had nevertheless shaped a career for herself that she was very happy with and that she was very good at.\n\nSo she was a role model and a very encouraging role model. Uh, I don't remember any particular hoopla about leaving. It was more like we were on an adventure that we had no way of imagining beyond showing up at the appointed places at the appointed times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right. Yes, exactly."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.267026067092454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were our parents’ age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But thinking in a different way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very different thinking, especially Ruth, who was the dean of students at the time at Cornell. And she became, I think, my mother surrogate model. And even before we went into the Peace Corps, because David was supporting himself through graduate school by working in the Dean of Students office. So he worked with her every day and we got to know them quite well. And I just admired her tremendously. So, and she was another example of a woman who had not been, if you will, deviant, but had nevertheless shaped a career for herself that she was very happy with and that she was very good at.\n\nSo she was a role model and a very encouraging role model. Uh, I don't remember any particular hoopla about leaving. It was more like we were on an adventure that we had no way of imagining beyond showing up at the appointed places at the appointed times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right. Yes, exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was okay. We had signed up for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's part of it, I think, you let go of all expectations."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.074473407880504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very different thinking, especially Ruth, who was the dean of students at the time at Cornell. And she became, I think, my mother surrogate model. And even before we went into the Peace Corps, because David was supporting himself through graduate school by working in the Dean of Students office. So he worked with her every day and we got to know them quite well. And I just admired her tremendously. So, and she was another example of a woman who had not been, if you will, deviant, but had nevertheless shaped a career for herself that she was very happy with and that she was very good at.\n\nSo she was a role model and a very encouraging role model. Uh, I don't remember any particular hoopla about leaving. It was more like we were on an adventure that we had no way of imagining beyond showing up at the appointed places at the appointed times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right. Yes, exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was okay. We had signed up for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's part of it, I think, you let go of all expectations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you, you arrived in, you all got your training group gathered in, was it San Francisco did you say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.860526008756116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was okay. We had signed up for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's part of it, I think, you let go of all expectations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you, you arrived in, you all got your training group gathered in, was it San Francisco did you say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first meeting point was Los Angeles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Los Angeles. And that would have been in 1968. Did you say October?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.469785195995204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first meeting point was Los Angeles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Los Angeles. And that would have been in 1968. Did you say October?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "'68 October. Right. It was, it was the, uh. You know, we were instructed very specifically to show up in Los Angeles and that we would be departing from Los Angeles as a group. What to bring, what not to bring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had had at that point already many shots. We had quite a number."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you had to get that on your own before training, those shots?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.188650217772449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'68 October. Right. It was, it was the, uh. You know, we were instructed very specifically to show up in Los Angeles and that we would be departing from Los Angeles as a group. What to bring, what not to bring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had had at that point already many shots. We had quite a number."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you had to get that on your own before training, those shots?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I remember a lot of them, yes. I think we may have had additional shots, but we came inoculated. And so then we just, I think there were about 80 of us in this group of seven, K-7 and 8. Got on the plane in L.A., got off in Hawaii."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just said something interesting. This was group seven and eight."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.9873891308582765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had had at that point already many shots. We had quite a number."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you had to get that on your own before training, those shots?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I remember a lot of them, yes. I think we may have had additional shots, but we came inoculated. And so then we just, I think there were about 80 of us in this group of seven, K-7 and 8. Got on the plane in L.A., got off in Hawaii."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just said something interesting. This was group seven and eight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the difference between seven and eight? It sounds like two groups together with different objectives once they got to Korea maybe?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.879505231726758, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As lawyers. Yes. I don't know if there were, uh, there was a comparable program with doctors or not, but it was directed not at the college level, but at a, a professional or business level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was the difference between the two groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were trained the same. The two groups were trained the same up until the last maybe, uh, three weeks or a month of the training program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you went sort of into two different paths. But let's, we're still in Los Angeles."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.64389470191862, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was the difference between the two groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were trained the same. The two groups were trained the same up until the last maybe, uh, three weeks or a month of the training program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you went sort of into two different paths. But let's, we're still in Los Angeles."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long are you in, how long were you in Los Angeles before you flew to Hawaii?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.202339138171135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long are you in, how long were you in Los Angeles before you flew to Hawaii?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. Probably just an overnight or a day. I mean, we didn't do anything in Los Angeles. It was just to meet each other. It was a jumping off point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was where we aggregated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And then you off you went. So there are, there are about 80 of you all together and, and so you've already described the difference between seven and eight. Were the Korea seven people pretty much like you and David, quite recently out of college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.002599042412372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. Probably just an overnight or a day. I mean, we didn't do anything in Los Angeles. It was just to meet each other. It was a jumping off point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was where we aggregated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And then you off you went. So there are, there are about 80 of you all together and, and so you've already described the difference between seven and eight. Were the Korea seven people pretty much like you and David, quite recently out of college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Most of us were fairly recently out of college. Maybe, maybe some people were one or two years out of college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And were there other married couples?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.879751904212803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Most of us were fairly recently out of college. Maybe, maybe some people were one or two years out of college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And were there other married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there were other married couples. Our program had for some reason, and I'll explain the reason because I think I understand it, a higher number of married couples than, than maybe most programs would have had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or that programs prior to our program had. And this was a highly self-selected group. I mean, that we had self-selected ourselves individually in making the decision to go to Korea, to go to Korea at this time. Um. Or really to be in the Peace Corps at this time. The number of couples that thought the way David and I thought was very high."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meaning your views about the war, Vietnam War?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.180729635408508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Views about the Vietnam War, views about susceptibility to the draft, views about wanting to make an affirmative contribution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "While also opposing, opposing the war. If you think of war as a militaristic engagement with the world, that we were opposed to a military engagement and wanted to have an affirmative engagement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the group was highly self-selected. And I've made, you know, we made many friends among, mostly among the couples, because we just socialized more easily among couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you, um, staying in dorm rooms? Where were you in Hawaii?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 13.803369920257417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the group was highly self-selected. And I've made, you know, we made many friends among, mostly among the couples, because we just socialized more easily among couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you, um, staying in dorm rooms? Where were you in Hawaii?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we got to Hawaii, we were taken to, um, well, we flew in on a smaller plane eventually. I think we, I think we originally landed in Honolulu and then were taken in smaller prop planes because we're still talking about propeller airplanes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Hilo, that had a small airport. And then we were bussed up to, uh, a little outside of Hilo, a small town, small city, to a wooden, long wooden building, white clapboard building that had been once upon a time a hospital. And I don't remember for whom. I don't remember if it was for like people with TB or leprosy or something. But it had been a hospital and was no longer being used as a hospital. And so it had many, many rooms. It was set up with large common areas, but also then rooms which would have been patient rooms. And so we were assigned, married couples were assigned to a room in this building. And we ate in the common areas and had classes in the common areas. And did everything in that building, all of our training. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is Phyllis Noble interviewing Margaret Eger Taylor. We're at the beginning of tape two. We're talking about the training program which was taking place in Hilo, Hawaii. And you were describing your living arrangements. You were in a big building, white clapboard, where you lived and you had your meals and your classes there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.44818880028602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we got to Hawaii, we were taken to, um, well, we flew in on a smaller plane eventually. I think we, I think we originally landed in Honolulu and then were taken in smaller prop planes because we're still talking about propeller airplanes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Hilo, that had a small airport. And then we were bussed up to, uh, a little outside of Hilo, a small town, small city, to a wooden, long wooden building, white clapboard building that had been once upon a time a hospital. And I don't remember for whom. I don't remember if it was for like people with TB or leprosy or something. But it had been a hospital and was no longer being used as a hospital. And so it had many, many rooms. It was set up with large common areas, but also then rooms which would have been patient rooms. And so we were assigned, married couples were assigned to a room in this building. And we ate in the common areas and had classes in the common areas. And did everything in that building, all of our training. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is Phyllis Noble interviewing Margaret Eger Taylor. We're at the beginning of tape two. We're talking about the training program which was taking place in Hilo, Hawaii. And you were describing your living arrangements. You were in a big building, white clapboard, where you lived and you had your meals and your classes there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And we had classes, uh, really all day. We had, um, I think breakfast was at 8:00, and then we had classes from approximately 9:00 to 12:00. We had a break for lunch and I think resumed again at 2:00 and had classes till 5:00. And then we had a break until 7:00, and then we had classes from 7:00 to 10:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.942432000317799, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Hilo, that had a small airport. And then we were bussed up to, uh, a little outside of Hilo, a small town, small city, to a wooden, long wooden building, white clapboard building that had been once upon a time a hospital. And I don't remember for whom. I don't remember if it was for like people with TB or leprosy or something. But it had been a hospital and was no longer being used as a hospital. And so it had many, many rooms. It was set up with large common areas, but also then rooms which would have been patient rooms. And so we were assigned, married couples were assigned to a room in this building. And we ate in the common areas and had classes in the common areas. And did everything in that building, all of our training. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is Phyllis Noble interviewing Margaret Eger Taylor. We're at the beginning of tape two. We're talking about the training program which was taking place in Hilo, Hawaii. And you were describing your living arrangements. You were in a big building, white clapboard, where you lived and you had your meals and your classes there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And we had classes, uh, really all day. We had, um, I think breakfast was at 8:00, and then we had classes from approximately 9:00 to 12:00. We had a break for lunch and I think resumed again at 2:00 and had classes till 5:00. And then we had a break until 7:00, and then we had classes from 7:00 to 10:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Long day, long day. And it was, as I recall, six days a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And what were these classes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.38048000035311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And we had classes, uh, really all day. We had, um, I think breakfast was at 8:00, and then we had classes from approximately 9:00 to 12:00. We had a break for lunch and I think resumed again at 2:00 and had classes till 5:00. And then we had a break until 7:00, and then we had classes from 7:00 to 10:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Long day, long day. And it was, as I recall, six days a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And what were these classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were classes of Korean language instruction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. How many hours a day was language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.867200000392344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Long day, long day. And it was, as I recall, six days a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And what were these classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were classes of Korean language instruction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. How many hours a day was language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was at least three and possibly more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in small groups?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3558043139989908, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the Peace Corps made use of that environment by taking us on trips. And they must have been either a Saturday afternoon or Sundays. But we, they would take us to places that we would not have been able to get to by ourselves. We were taking busses to, uh, the ocean at different points along the coast, to very, very, very deep valleys that cut through the island and would have precipitous drops of hundreds of feet onto the beach. We were at one point given a very small amount of money for a three day immersion, which I think was an effort to see how we coped with being on our own, comparable to the three days that I had in Rome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were sent out. The married couples went as couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The individuals went as individuals. But we were taken and dropped off somewhere on the island. I mean, just dropped off, like, hello, this is where you are and don't come back until Sunday night. This was Friday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think it'd be very nice to have a spousal one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5064492377766565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were sent out. The married couples went as couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The individuals went as individuals. But we were taken and dropped off somewhere on the island. I mean, just dropped off, like, hello, this is where you are and don't come back until Sunday night. This was Friday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think it'd be very nice to have a spousal one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Instead of being totally alone."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6738324864185072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The individuals went as individuals. But we were taken and dropped off somewhere on the island. I mean, just dropped off, like, hello, this is where you are and don't come back until Sunday night. This was Friday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think it'd be very nice to have a spousal one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Instead of being totally alone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there certain things you had to accomplish during that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.066459859775935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there certain things you had to accomplish during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I mean, you just had to figure out how to survive and get back on, back where you belonged on Sunday night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even know if we had a map. If we did, it was a very rudimentary map."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But by now you had, now you weren't studying Hawaiian language."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.29606651086215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I mean, you just had to figure out how to survive and get back on, back where you belonged on Sunday night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even know if we had a map. If we did, it was a very rudimentary map."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But by now you had, now you weren't studying Hawaiian language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could, you could communicate in English with most of the people, right? Or maybe not."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5511850120690553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even know if we had a map. If we did, it was a very rudimentary map."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But by now you had, now you weren't studying Hawaiian language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could, you could communicate in English with most of the people, right? Or maybe not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Not really. And it was a very unpopulated island at that time. It was significantly rural. Cars were rare and few and far between. There were little sort of farmsteads in the middle of a field, a sugar field or a cane field or, or. Certainly not an urban center until you got up to the north side of the island, which was at that point being developed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Were there dangers, were there snakes and scorpions and things?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8346500134100614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could, you could communicate in English with most of the people, right? Or maybe not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Not really. And it was a very unpopulated island at that time. It was significantly rural. Cars were rare and few and far between. There were little sort of farmsteads in the middle of a field, a sugar field or a cane field or, or. Certainly not an urban center until you got up to the north side of the island, which was at that point being developed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Were there dangers, were there snakes and scorpions and things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you would, I would imagine you would if that's what you were most terrified about."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1496111260111794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Not really. And it was a very unpopulated island at that time. It was significantly rural. Cars were rare and few and far between. There were little sort of farmsteads in the middle of a field, a sugar field or a cane field or, or. Certainly not an urban center until you got up to the north side of the island, which was at that point being developed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Were there dangers, were there snakes and scorpions and things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you would, I would imagine you would if that's what you were most terrified about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think some people encountered animals like raccoons and dogs and so on. But."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so what did you have to, what did you wind up having to do to get back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4995679177901993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you would, I would imagine you would if that's what you were most terrified about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think some people encountered animals like raccoons and dogs and so on. But."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so what did you have to, what did you wind up having to do to get back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's a big island and we ended up having to hitchhike because there was no other transportation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to find a road?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.320454219494073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's a big island and we ended up having to hitchhike because there was no other transportation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to find a road?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were dropped off on a road, but the roads were, you know, small, maximum two lane roads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dirt roads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some were dirt. I think mostly we tried to stay on at least a two lane road that belted the island. Because the island in the middle is a volcano so there isn't a lot of cross traffic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. Yeah. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.7579547296766185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we hitchhiked, and we spent a lot of time standing on the roadside watching people drive by who were not interested in picking us up. And we got finally a ride, I remember. And it was a single guy, maybe middle aged, who, whose, who we had trouble communicating with because his English and our Hawaiian did not meet in the middle. But he seemed enthusiastic, and we were tired of being in the same place for several hours. And it turned out that he lived by himself and I think he was into pornography."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So once we realized that, uh, we excused ourselves and, you know, made it back to the main road. But that was an interesting lesson because I had no experience with that side of life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "None. I mean, I think I almost didn't even recognize what it was. I just knew that it wasn't something I wanted to find anything more out about. And that seemed to be this gentleman's agenda. So we, we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can only imagine."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.508838588529576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So once we realized that, uh, we excused ourselves and, you know, made it back to the main road. But that was an interesting lesson because I had no experience with that side of life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "None. I mean, I think I almost didn't even recognize what it was. I just knew that it wasn't something I wanted to find anything more out about. And that seemed to be this gentleman's agenda. So we, we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can only imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Understood it was time to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I could only imagine a woman alone hitchhiking in that situation and finding myself in such a place. Yikes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.455356282135279, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Understood it was time to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I could only imagine a woman alone hitchhiking in that situation and finding myself in such a place. Yikes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know what the women did. Right. Then we, we made it to the top of the island, the north side. If you think of the island as a clock, Hilo was at about, I'm guessing, between 3:00 and 4:00. The north side of the island being around midnight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, 12:00. Um, it was a resort. That area had been developed as a resort. And so there were these expensive hotels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which you couldn't afford, which you probably were on a very tight."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5052898246025777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we had $10 between us for everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the first night I know we slept outside all of the nights because we didn't have, there was nowhere to stay really. And we had no money. We couldn't afford anything. And I remember, I think it was by Sunday morning we ended up on the north side, or maybe Saturday morning. But, you know, we were hungry, we were tired, we slept outside, and we were walking along the beach and became aware of these hotels. And we could see from the beach where we were walking that people were dining outside and well dressed and it looked quite elegant and some beautiful brunch was being served. We were so hungry. We were so hungry.\n\nAnd I don't think I appreciated that we probably looked pretty ratty at that point because I was still thinking of myself as a, as a, as a white, middle class, educated person. And apparently we did not look the part. And we attracted the attention of a waiter because we thought, well, we might as well spend our money and at least have a tremendous brunch. So we attracted the attention of a waiter who came over, or a manager who came over and we said, you know, we've got $10 and we'd love some brunch. And he said, no, can't do it. We can't serve you. And we said, well, why not? We've got the money. We're here. And he said, no, we can't serve you. And I did not understand at the time enough about social class to realize that we presented ourselves as being of an unacceptable social class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aha."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, we were beach bums. And I didn't think of myself as a beach bum. So when we were treated as beach bums, I was dumbfounded, just dumbfounded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This must be, you must have been feeling what African Americans were feeling when they were denied a Coca Cola at the lunch counter."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.009281854294433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you haven't entered through the front door, you can be denied service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it doesn't matter if you're hungry and it doesn't matter if you have money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just won't engage with you. So we continued, um, and I think we spent another. It must have been a Saturday. I think we spent another night, um, I know we spent another night out. I remember sleeping on a picnic table because there were things on the ground. I'm not sure what, but the better place to sleep seemed to be a couple of feet off the ground. It was chilly. It was damp. We didn't have any blankets or clothing other than what we had on our backs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no sleeping bags or air mattress?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1214242825493699, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it doesn't matter if you're hungry and it doesn't matter if you have money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just won't engage with you. So we continued, um, and I think we spent another. It must have been a Saturday. I think we spent another night, um, I know we spent another night out. I remember sleeping on a picnic table because there were things on the ground. I'm not sure what, but the better place to sleep seemed to be a couple of feet off the ground. It was chilly. It was damp. We didn't have any blankets or clothing other than what we had on our backs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no sleeping bags or air mattress?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. No, no, no, no. Nothing. And so we made it back, I guess, late afternoon on Sunday, hitchhiking some more. Many people had much more exciting adventures than we did. Ours was relatively tame."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that must have been really an awakening experience to get back together with your peers and hear, listen to each other's stories."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.246026980610411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just won't engage with you. So we continued, um, and I think we spent another. It must have been a Saturday. I think we spent another night, um, I know we spent another night out. I remember sleeping on a picnic table because there were things on the ground. I'm not sure what, but the better place to sleep seemed to be a couple of feet off the ground. It was chilly. It was damp. We didn't have any blankets or clothing other than what we had on our backs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no sleeping bags or air mattress?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. No, no, no, no. Nothing. And so we made it back, I guess, late afternoon on Sunday, hitchhiking some more. Many people had much more exciting adventures than we did. Ours was relatively tame."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that must have been really an awakening experience to get back together with your peers and hear, listen to each other's stories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why do you think they did that? Why, why? What was the purpose of that three day exercise in survival?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:457", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3844744229004566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. No, no, no, no. Nothing. And so we made it back, I guess, late afternoon on Sunday, hitchhiking some more. Many people had much more exciting adventures than we did. Ours was relatively tame."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that must have been really an awakening experience to get back together with your peers and hear, listen to each other's stories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why do you think they did that? Why, why? What was the purpose of that three day exercise in survival?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was to see how we would cope in a completely uncharted environment with minimal amount of money. It was, you know, from the point of view of a psychologist now, it was functionally a projective test. In other words, if you dump these people into a blank environment where they do not have the resources that they are used to depending upon and are left to their own devices, which means that they have their minds and their bodies and the clothes on their back. How will they fare? Will they be able to tolerate it? It wasn't so much a test of, I think, whether we had a wonderful experience or not. It was, can you take this? Maybe that was it. Can you stomach it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Are you strong enough to go through this challenge? Were, was there the threat of deselection over your heads?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5383049143338408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why do you think they did that? Why, why? What was the purpose of that three day exercise in survival?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was to see how we would cope in a completely uncharted environment with minimal amount of money. It was, you know, from the point of view of a psychologist now, it was functionally a projective test. In other words, if you dump these people into a blank environment where they do not have the resources that they are used to depending upon and are left to their own devices, which means that they have their minds and their bodies and the clothes on their back. How will they fare? Will they be able to tolerate it? It wasn't so much a test of, I think, whether we had a wonderful experience or not. It was, can you take this? Maybe that was it. Can you stomach it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Are you strong enough to go through this challenge? Were, was there the threat of deselection over your heads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was always there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So maybe this was the ultimate deciding factor in who would go on to Korea?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3705649788037741, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So all we knew was that everything we did was being evaluated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or everything we didn't do was being evaluated. And that we just were cognizant that there was deselection. And in fact, I remember one gentleman was deselected at the very end and the volunteers really liked him. He, I remember he was Polish and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Polish American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Polish American. He was, um, he was gregarious. He was a musician. He was, he was a little bit on the loud side, but he was great fun. And all the volunteers liked him. He was deselected and it came as a disappointment and a blow to the rest of us because we liked him very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to talk to him or did he just disappear?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5228499764486378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or everything we didn't do was being evaluated. And that we just were cognizant that there was deselection. And in fact, I remember one gentleman was deselected at the very end and the volunteers really liked him. He, I remember he was Polish and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Polish American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Polish American. He was, um, he was gregarious. He was a musician. He was, he was a little bit on the loud side, but he was great fun. And all the volunteers liked him. He was deselected and it came as a disappointment and a blow to the rest of us because we liked him very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to talk to him or did he just disappear?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They gave him very short notice, functionally he disappeared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he have any inkling about why?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:479", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0864959250855628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And what I realized later, once we were in Korea, is that parts of his personality would have been just fine in Korea. But the, the way he was, he was a little, a little bit. He would have been a bull in a china shop, not because he was a bull in a china shop, but because the, of a mismatch between his physical and social gregariousness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the Korean culture, which was a very, is a very refined, um, conservative, um, traditional Confucian hierarchical culture. And that, I think, was what my hypothesis is, and it's only a hypothesis, is that the Korean staff understood that that he would be perhaps not, not suitable for adaptation to becoming Korean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, that to succeed in Korea, you sort of had to at least be able to adopt enough of Korean mannerisms and behavior that you could not offend people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. Exactly right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3413529939327935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, that to succeed in Korea, you sort of had to at least be able to adopt enough of Korean mannerisms and behavior that you could not offend people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. Exactly right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think probably just his, his, his native humanness as a person and maybe from his culture was, it was too loud."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His, his body language was too gregarious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, now I hope that he was, that such a great guy would have been given another chance to train for a different program in a different culture where loud, gregarious behavior would be okay and not offensive."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4903922154808817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think probably just his, his, his native humanness as a person and maybe from his culture was, it was too loud."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His, his body language was too gregarious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, now I hope that he was, that such a great guy would have been given another chance to train for a different program in a different culture where loud, gregarious behavior would be okay and not offensive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And that may have happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hope so."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6559913505343131, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His, his body language was too gregarious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, now I hope that he was, that such a great guy would have been given another chance to train for a different program in a different culture where loud, gregarious behavior would be okay and not offensive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And that may have happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We were not allowed to, I mean, it was, it wasn't something we were informed about to process but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you and David pretty confident, confident that you were going to be accepted or was it, were you worried about deselection?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0444337660917444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We were not allowed to, I mean, it was, it wasn't something we were informed about to process but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you and David pretty confident, confident that you were going to be accepted or was it, were you worried about deselection?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a worry I think in everyone's mind because it was a possibility. I don't think I took it personally. I don't think I thought that it was likely because I understood that we had many of the same mannerisms that with refinement, considerable refinement, would make us acceptable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we could, that we could behave appropriately. And to some extent I was wrong, but that's further down into the story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have psychologists coming to interview you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2715930734352714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a worry I think in everyone's mind because it was a possibility. I don't think I took it personally. I don't think I thought that it was likely because I understood that we had many of the same mannerisms that with refinement, considerable refinement, would make us acceptable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we could, that we could behave appropriately. And to some extent I was wrong, but that's further down into the story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have psychologists coming to interview you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have personal, individual interviews with psychologists?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5239923038169683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we could, that we could behave appropriately. And to some extent I was wrong, but that's further down into the story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have psychologists coming to interview you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have personal, individual interviews with psychologists?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And, uh, this is a pivotal point in, I think it was the point where I thought perhaps I would be deselected, in which case we would both be deselected. We had an interview, I think more than one actually, but I remember one in particular with the psychologist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You by yourself or you and David together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1160398812555163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And, uh, this is a pivotal point in, I think it was the point where I thought perhaps I would be deselected, in which case we would both be deselected. We had an interview, I think more than one actually, but I remember one in particular with the psychologist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You by yourself or you and David together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Separately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Separately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Individually. And the question was. And here's this guy that we don't know, that everybody thinks is a little, I think people were very ambivalent about him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. The psychologist?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:505", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.274403129294261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he seemed to operate on a set of principles that were not available to us. And we didn't know what his expectations were or what he was looking for. It was, he seemed opaque."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I remember he was sitting in a chair, and I came in and sat down and he said, well, tell me about yourself. That's all he said. No guidance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where do you begin?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2945234115637192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His last name was Exner, and he ended up writing a seminal textbook on the Rorschach. He had developed his own scoring method for scoring the responses on the Rorschach. And the Rorschach is inkblots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's an entirely projective test. In other words, somebody looks at the blot and then says what comes to mind. And it's all scored very meticulously. That was what he was doing. He was writing that system. He was creating his own system of scoring the inkblots. And that was exactly, then I understood. Once I understood that that was his book and it was the same guy, because he came at one point and talked at the University of Michigan about his scoring system. And I went up to him, and because somehow I put two and two together, and I thought this must be the same guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, were you ever in, were you ever a psychologist for a Peace Corps training program in Hawaii? And he said yes. He did not want to, he stopped the conversation. I mean, he was not interested. I thought maybe he'd say, oh, well, you know, what did you do and how did it go and blah blah blah?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how fascinating it was and all he learned from it. No?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5981770513132336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, were you ever in, were you ever a psychologist for a Peace Corps training program in Hawaii? And he said yes. He did not want to, he stopped the conversation. I mean, he was not interested. I thought maybe he'd say, oh, well, you know, what did you do and how did it go and blah blah blah?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how fascinating it was and all he learned from it. No?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. He was absolutely not interested in pursuing that line of conversation. So I thought, well, that's interesting. He's confirmed that it's the same person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my question is answered and this is not a person that I'm comfortable with. I wasn't then. I'm not now. So, yes, that was the psychology question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I'm thinking about this. I'm also wondering whether in training you were given teacher training? You had cultural studies, language studies. But what about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7757522792369262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. He was absolutely not interested in pursuing that line of conversation. So I thought, well, that's interesting. He's confirmed that it's the same person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my question is answered and this is not a person that I'm comfortable with. I wasn't then. I'm not now. So, yes, that was the psychology question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I'm thinking about this. I'm also wondering whether in training you were given teacher training? You had cultural studies, language studies. But what about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How to, how to teach?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:523", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9730580880410291, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my question is answered and this is not a person that I'm comfortable with. I wasn't then. I'm not now. So, yes, that was the psychology question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I'm thinking about this. I'm also wondering whether in training you were given teacher training? You had cultural studies, language studies. But what about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How to, how to teach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were. And that was the TESL part, which is to learn how to teach, period. And then I guess learn how to teach a foreign language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Again, TESL is Teaching English as a Second Language."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1922867644900323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How to, how to teach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were. And that was the TESL part, which is to learn how to teach, period. And then I guess learn how to teach a foreign language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Again, TESL is Teaching English as a Second Language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It used to be TEFL, T-E-F-L, Teaching English as a Foreign Language. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.4358741827667028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were. And that was the TESL part, which is to learn how to teach, period. And then I guess learn how to teach a foreign language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Again, TESL is Teaching English as a Second Language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It used to be TEFL, T-E-F-L, Teaching English as a Foreign Language. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I. Because it, because we were teaching English conversation. That was really our function. Um. That as an English major, it didn't seem to me very hard to teach language. I had had a lot of education in that, including lots of education and diagraming sentences and parts of speech and gerunds and adjectives and verbs. And so I was quite at home with that. I had not taught, but I don't remember that being an issue. It obviously didn't make a big impression on me. So it must have been a compatible enough experience that it didn't really register."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the whole, did you think that your training was done well, that the information was conveyed in in a good way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5954157586296698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It used to be TEFL, T-E-F-L, Teaching English as a Foreign Language. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I. Because it, because we were teaching English conversation. That was really our function. Um. That as an English major, it didn't seem to me very hard to teach language. I had had a lot of education in that, including lots of education and diagraming sentences and parts of speech and gerunds and adjectives and verbs. And so I was quite at home with that. I had not taught, but I don't remember that being an issue. It obviously didn't make a big impression on me. So it must have been a compatible enough experience that it didn't really register."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the whole, did you think that your training was done well, that the information was conveyed in in a good way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. Uh, the days were long. We got, at least I did, got tired. I had no ear for picking up a language orally, and so I struggled whereas other people just, who are good at mimicry or music or had some auditory recall did much better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So their method of teaching Korean was entirely oral?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7726841762551886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I. Because it, because we were teaching English conversation. That was really our function. Um. That as an English major, it didn't seem to me very hard to teach language. I had had a lot of education in that, including lots of education and diagraming sentences and parts of speech and gerunds and adjectives and verbs. And so I was quite at home with that. I had not taught, but I don't remember that being an issue. It obviously didn't make a big impression on me. So it must have been a compatible enough experience that it didn't really register."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the whole, did you think that your training was done well, that the information was conveyed in in a good way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. Uh, the days were long. We got, at least I did, got tired. I had no ear for picking up a language orally, and so I struggled whereas other people just, who are good at mimicry or music or had some auditory recall did much better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So their method of teaching Korean was entirely oral?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have a textbook to talk about grammar?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4316655367012188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything was immersion. The whole, the whole, the whole training program was immersion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is we're going to put you in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And see how you do. And the way to learn a language is that you are spoken to in Korean and, and we'll repeat it for you, but you've got to figure it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, we now know that people learn languages in many different ways. If you're a visual learner, you're going to need some visual, visual cues."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:539", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7018505963346873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is we're going to put you in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And see how you do. And the way to learn a language is that you are spoken to in Korean and, and we'll repeat it for you, but you've got to figure it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, we now know that people learn languages in many different ways. If you're a visual learner, you're going to need some visual, visual cues."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we did have to learn the alphabet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The alphabet, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0020562181496526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And see how you do. And the way to learn a language is that you are spoken to in Korean and, and we'll repeat it for you, but you've got to figure it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, we now know that people learn languages in many different ways. If you're a visual learner, you're going to need some visual, visual cues."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we did have to learn the alphabet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The alphabet, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had to learn how to read basic, basic words."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Very difficult."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:543", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.335618020166281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we did have to learn the alphabet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The alphabet, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had to learn how to read basic, basic words."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Very difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it's a completely foreign alphabet, but it's a wonderful alphabet. But that's a whole different story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you, um, did you feel that you were given all the training you needed? Was the training adequate for what you then were faced with once you got to Korea?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.706242244629201, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had to learn how to read basic, basic words."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Very difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it's a completely foreign alphabet, but it's a wonderful alphabet. But that's a whole different story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you, um, did you feel that you were given all the training you needed? Was the training adequate for what you then were faced with once you got to Korea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The answer is yes. Uh. I don't think. I don't think that there would ever be fully adequate training because fully adequate training would be that you would end up being Korean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.575607709418766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The answer is yes. Uh. I don't think. I don't think that there would ever be fully adequate training because fully adequate training would be that you would end up being Korean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And obviously that was not possible. So at some point they had to say, you've got enough, you have enough under your belt here that, that you can survive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then it's up to you while you're in Korea, you know, you keep learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.084008566020851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And obviously that was not possible. So at some point they had to say, you've got enough, you have enough under your belt here that, that you can survive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then it's up to you while you're in Korea, you know, you keep learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You keep learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're in Hawaii for? How long did the training last, two or three months?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:553", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4266761844676124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then it's up to you while you're in Korea, you know, you keep learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You keep learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're in Hawaii for? How long did the training last, two or three months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in Hilo, uh, October and November. And I think about part of December. And then we were taken to Honolulu. And in Honolulu the group was split. The seven and eights were split for the first time. And so I don't know exactly what the eights did, um, and I don't even remember exactly what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was practice teaching as part of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:555", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.8074179827417916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You keep learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're in Hawaii for? How long did the training last, two or three months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in Hilo, uh, October and November. And I think about part of December. And then we were taken to Honolulu. And in Honolulu the group was split. The seven and eights were split for the first time. And so I don't know exactly what the eights did, um, and I don't even remember exactly what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was practice teaching as part of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I'm, I'm blank on it. Um. I do remember that we spent a Christmas with a family that we didn't know who had just, you know, opened their house to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A Hawaiian family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:557", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.119353314157546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in Hilo, uh, October and November. And I think about part of December. And then we were taken to Honolulu. And in Honolulu the group was split. The seven and eights were split for the first time. And so I don't know exactly what the eights did, um, and I don't even remember exactly what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was practice teaching as part of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I'm, I'm blank on it. Um. I do remember that we spent a Christmas with a family that we didn't know who had just, you know, opened their house to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A Hawaiian family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, well, I mean, it was, it was Honolulu, but I think they were more Anglo than Hawaiian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. But not a Korean immigrant family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:559", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4659481268417176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I'm, I'm blank on it. Um. I do remember that we spent a Christmas with a family that we didn't know who had just, you know, opened their house to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A Hawaiian family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, well, I mean, it was, it was Honolulu, but I think they were more Anglo than Hawaiian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. But not a Korean immigrant family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not a Korean immigrant family. I don't know why I'm drawing such a blank on that. But I am. Uh. It was an urban. Oh, maybe this was the part. It was an urban environment. So we were, we were learning how to get around in a large urban environment where maybe we didn't have. It wasn't a totally foreign culture, but it certainly wasn't a familiar culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then did training continue a bit in Korea, or did you have your big swearing in ceremony in Hawaii?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.851053474268575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, well, I mean, it was, it was Honolulu, but I think they were more Anglo than Hawaiian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. But not a Korean immigrant family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not a Korean immigrant family. I don't know why I'm drawing such a blank on that. But I am. Uh. It was an urban. Oh, maybe this was the part. It was an urban environment. So we were, we were learning how to get around in a large urban environment where maybe we didn't have. It wasn't a totally foreign culture, but it certainly wasn't a familiar culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then did training continue a bit in Korea, or did you have your big swearing in ceremony in Hawaii?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had it in Hawaii. By that time, anybody that was being deselected had been deselected. So before shipping us off to Korea, we had the swearing in ceremony in Hawaii."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meanwhile, you're writing it to your parents, to your brother maybe, from Hawaii?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:563", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.278948304742861, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not a Korean immigrant family. I don't know why I'm drawing such a blank on that. But I am. Uh. It was an urban. Oh, maybe this was the part. It was an urban environment. So we were, we were learning how to get around in a large urban environment where maybe we didn't have. It wasn't a totally foreign culture, but it certainly wasn't a familiar culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then did training continue a bit in Korea, or did you have your big swearing in ceremony in Hawaii?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had it in Hawaii. By that time, anybody that was being deselected had been deselected. So before shipping us off to Korea, we had the swearing in ceremony in Hawaii."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meanwhile, you're writing it to your parents, to your brother maybe, from Hawaii?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't particularly remember writing that much from Hawaii. I don't know. I don't know why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they were keeping you pretty busy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:567", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.282652228077605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't particularly remember writing that much from Hawaii. I don't know. I don't know why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they were keeping you pretty busy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were busy, very busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think that if I had free time, I probably would just socialize with the other volunteers and the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we get on that plane and go to Korea, is there anything else you'd like to say about training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:571", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.188459540836549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think that if I had free time, I probably would just socialize with the other volunteers and the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we get on that plane and go to Korea, is there anything else you'd like to say about training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, two things. One is that the Korean staff gave us all Korean names before we left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we were presented with our Korean names, and my Korean name was Lee Mi Hae. Lee is the surname, the family name, and Korea has a finite number of surnames, unlike the United States. I think around 200, 250. And Lee and Kim are among the most common. So it was a very common surname."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so Lee would be spelled?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.002002113630382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it depends on how it's transliterated. Syngman Rhee spelled at R-H-E-E because the L and the R sound are ambiguous. So and E in English doesn't mean anything. I mean, you can't just have like a capital E. So, so when it's. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the solutions is what Syngman Rhee did, R-H-E-E, which is very uncommon. The most common solution is L-E-E."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lee."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your family name was Lee or E?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:585", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.464414134477033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And because it was a Korean name, it was pronounced E."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just E."}, {"role": "user", "content": "E. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But if it had to be written out, it would have been, you know, probably Lee or Mi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Okay. So you were Lee and then Mi."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:593", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4394362665402118, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then Hae, H-A-E."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "H-A-E."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mi means beautiful. I mean, it can mean a number of things because the sound itself means a number of different words. And Koreans can figure it out by context. Or if it's written, they can figure it out because Chinese characters are used to clarify. So if there are five ways of understanding the phonetics of Mi, the Korean can decipher it linguistically by understanding the context, although there still can be ambiguity, which is the fun of poetry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or by, in a print form, if the person has been educated to the point where they understand Chinese characters. The Chinese character that's selected clarifies what the meaning is. And I have, I am sorry to say, forgotten the meaning of Hae."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that's all right. So during training, you were Lee Mi Hae."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:595", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5993736294891243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mi means beautiful. I mean, it can mean a number of things because the sound itself means a number of different words. And Koreans can figure it out by context. Or if it's written, they can figure it out because Chinese characters are used to clarify. So if there are five ways of understanding the phonetics of Mi, the Korean can decipher it linguistically by understanding the context, although there still can be ambiguity, which is the fun of poetry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or by, in a print form, if the person has been educated to the point where they understand Chinese characters. The Chinese character that's selected clarifies what the meaning is. And I have, I am sorry to say, forgotten the meaning of Hae."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that's all right. So during training, you were Lee Mi Hae."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The names were given to us, actually, I think fairly far into the training. So by the time we got the names, the Korean staff knew us. So these names meant, these, these were non random names."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, they chose something."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:599", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9745353450483014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The names were given to us, actually, I think fairly far into the training. So by the time we got the names, the Korean staff knew us. So these names meant, these, these were non random names."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, they chose something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They chose something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought it was a lovely name and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you keep it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:601", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1939281611647794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They chose something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought it was a lovely name and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you keep it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mean, we kept it for the duration of being there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being in Hawaii or in Korea."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:603", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.437697956849755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought it was a lovely name and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you keep it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mean, we kept it for the duration of being there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being in Hawaii or in Korea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, in Korea. Not that anybody called us that for real, but we had, many of us had dojangs made up. Dojang is the, is a seal, a Chinese seal. And when we had them made up, we had them made up with our Korean names."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which you had acquired in Hawaii."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:605", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7085532853886165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mean, we kept it for the duration of being there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being in Hawaii or in Korea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, in Korea. Not that anybody called us that for real, but we had, many of us had dojangs made up. Dojang is the, is a seal, a Chinese seal. And when we had them made up, we had them made up with our Korean names."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which you had acquired in Hawaii."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which we had acquired in Hawaii."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was something else you wanted to say about training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:607", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.009503650431796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, in Korea. Not that anybody called us that for real, but we had, many of us had dojangs made up. Dojang is the, is a seal, a Chinese seal. And when we had them made up, we had them made up with our Korean names."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which you had acquired in Hawaii."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which we had acquired in Hawaii."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was something else you wanted to say about training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now I've forgotten. Um. Sorry, I've forgotten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don't we move on to Korea? And if that in the context of talking about Korea, if, if it pops back into your mind we can."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:609", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.343892944924218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which we had acquired in Hawaii."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was something else you wanted to say about training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now I've forgotten. Um. Sorry, I've forgotten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don't we move on to Korea? And if that in the context of talking about Korea, if, if it pops back into your mind we can."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back to that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:611", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.715436605471353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now I've forgotten. Um. Sorry, I've forgotten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don't we move on to Korea? And if that in the context of talking about Korea, if, if it pops back into your mind we can."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back to that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So I'm sorry if I'm rushing you along."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:613", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.12826289496817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go back to that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So I'm sorry if I'm rushing you along."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I want, I want to make sure we have enough time to talk about your experience in Korea."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:615", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.586958772186856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So I'm sorry if I'm rushing you along."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I want, I want to make sure we have enough time to talk about your experience in Korea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm relying on your guidance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So, um, you don't have time to, they don't send you back to United States to say goodbye to your families. You go from Hawaii directly to Korea. There's a flight. And you all land, I suppose, in Seoul?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:617", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8743986357631734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I want, I want to make sure we have enough time to talk about your experience in Korea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm relying on your guidance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So, um, you don't have time to, they don't send you back to United States to say goodbye to your families. You go from Hawaii directly to Korea. There's a flight. And you all land, I suppose, in Seoul?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Actually, we landed in Incheon, which is maybe an hour by bus outside of Seoul to the west, which was where the airport was. There was an airport in Incheon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a welcoming party? Were there people there to meet you at the airport?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:619", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1937762619590817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm relying on your guidance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So, um, you don't have time to, they don't send you back to United States to say goodbye to your families. You go from Hawaii directly to Korea. There's a flight. And you all land, I suppose, in Seoul?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Actually, we landed in Incheon, which is maybe an hour by bus outside of Seoul to the west, which was where the airport was. There was an airport in Incheon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a welcoming party? Were there people there to meet you at the airport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were met with busses and we were met by, I believe, the Peace Corps director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The country director?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:621", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4375291799545353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Actually, we landed in Incheon, which is maybe an hour by bus outside of Seoul to the west, which was where the airport was. There was an airport in Incheon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a welcoming party? Were there people there to meet you at the airport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were met with busses and we were met by, I believe, the Peace Corps director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The country director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The country director named Kevin O'Donnell and maybe some of the office staff. But principally by Koreans and also the staff that we had trained with, the Korean staff that we had trained with. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had they accompanied you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:623", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.708365755505039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were met with busses and we were met by, I believe, the Peace Corps director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The country director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The country director named Kevin O'Donnell and maybe some of the office staff. But principally by Koreans and also the staff that we had trained with, the Korean staff that we had trained with. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had they accompanied you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if it was every one of them, but it seemed to me that there was some overlap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:633", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1175053862132107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you get off in Seoul. And for one thing, we got on where it was summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're now talking, we're into deep January at least. And we got off in this winter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything is gray. It's snowy, it's cold, it's barren looking. It's not urban. It's very rural. The airport is tiny. And we're put on busses that were standard Korean busses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been warned about the change in, the radical?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:635", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.352783762459123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're now talking, we're into deep January at least. And we got off in this winter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything is gray. It's snowy, it's cold, it's barren looking. It's not urban. It's very rural. The airport is tiny. And we're put on busses that were standard Korean busses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been warned about the change in, the radical?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Change in temperature. So you had socks on, for example?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:639", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9046713116779297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Change in temperature. So you had socks on, for example?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were prepared. I mean, we were told, and it was a climate that I was used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just a big shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:641", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.227412568531033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were prepared. I mean, we were told, and it was a climate that I was used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just a big shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From summer to winter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The opposite of those of us who flew from New York to Lagos, Nigeria, in January."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:645", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7498920599148553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From summer to winter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The opposite of those of us who flew from New York to Lagos, Nigeria, in January."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Went from winter to summer. So you understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were put on busses, and I don't remember how we were divided up, but we were put on busses and driven into Seoul, which was urban and sprawled out because it was mostly buildings that were under, I would say, five stories. There were no elevators."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're talking about all of Seoul?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:649", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3949284690306856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were put on busses, and I don't remember how we were divided up, but we were put on busses and driven into Seoul, which was urban and sprawled out because it was mostly buildings that were under, I would say, five stories. There were no elevators."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're talking about all of Seoul?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. No elevators, no heat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No heat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No heat. There was electricity, but no heat. Running water maybe. Flushing toilets never. A hole in the floor always."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The bathroom was a hole in, the toilet was a hole in the floor?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:657", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9398391541391327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Private homes had outhouses. And which was a hole in a little enclosure of some kind. What I have as the strongest memory is being on the bus as we drove into Seoul and looking out the window. And to me, it was like a kaleidoscope. It was a riot of color and imagery and shapes and costumes and conveyances that I could not make sense of. It was like I had been born again. Like, where am I? And what is all of this? Not, not what is that? But what is everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Total stimuli overload. Um, now I had been in Rome, which by comparison was a little tiny bit of stimuli overload. This was 100 percent stimuli overload."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think because I'd been through it with these earlier experiences, I knew that if I just stayed calm and paid attention, that it would begin to precipitate out that, you know, I would begin to understand one thing and then I would begin to understand another thing, that it would precipitate out and it would no longer seem what is the most profound experience of disorganization. I mean, culture shock is not, is not a metaphor. It is a shock. It's like being dropped into ice water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm, mm hmm."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:659", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3775990601545915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Total stimuli overload. Um, now I had been in Rome, which by comparison was a little tiny bit of stimuli overload. This was 100 percent stimuli overload."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think because I'd been through it with these earlier experiences, I knew that if I just stayed calm and paid attention, that it would begin to precipitate out that, you know, I would begin to understand one thing and then I would begin to understand another thing, that it would precipitate out and it would no longer seem what is the most profound experience of disorganization. I mean, culture shock is not, is not a metaphor. It is a shock. It's like being dropped into ice water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm, mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So but I knew it would pass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't panic because you knew that eventually you would, this would all begin to make sense."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:661", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8639989557273235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think because I'd been through it with these earlier experiences, I knew that if I just stayed calm and paid attention, that it would begin to precipitate out that, you know, I would begin to understand one thing and then I would begin to understand another thing, that it would precipitate out and it would no longer seem what is the most profound experience of disorganization. I mean, culture shock is not, is not a metaphor. It is a shock. It's like being dropped into ice water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm, mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So but I knew it would pass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't panic because you knew that eventually you would, this would all begin to make sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about, how did your spouse do? You were married to David, who was also must have been going through some similar."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:663", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.40444328414147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So but I knew it would pass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't panic because you knew that eventually you would, this would all begin to make sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about, how did your spouse do? You were married to David, who was also must have been going through some similar."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I think it was harder on him and, uh, and I, and I'm not sure why. I think our personalities are, just a difference in personality maybe. He had traveled overseas so that would not have been the deciding factor. But."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were adjusting a little bit more easily?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:665", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.004936982379411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about, how did your spouse do? You were married to David, who was also must have been going through some similar."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I think it was harder on him and, uh, and I, and I'm not sure why. I think our personalities are, just a difference in personality maybe. He had traveled overseas so that would not have been the deciding factor. But."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were adjusting a little bit more easily?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you, you were taking the bus into Seoul and then where, did you stay together as a group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:667", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.67215220264379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I think it was harder on him and, uh, and I, and I'm not sure why. I think our personalities are, just a difference in personality maybe. He had traveled overseas so that would not have been the deciding factor. But."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were adjusting a little bit more easily?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you, you were taking the bus into Seoul and then where, did you stay together as a group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed together as a group for a couple of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a dorm thing or what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:669", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.413502447381989, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you, you were taking the bus into Seoul and then where, did you stay together as a group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed together as a group for a couple of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a dorm thing or what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember exactly where we stayed, and maybe it wasn't even a couple of days. We were, we all were conveyed in several busses because there were enough, enough of us, at least two busses, to the Peace Corps headquarters in Seoul on the main sort of drag in the city. And at that point, we were, we were given an address of where we would be living. And it was given to us. We didn't have any say so in it. A lot of people who were not going to be teaching in Seoul were dispersed to wherever their assignment was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, but you were actually going to be teaching and living in Seoul as a volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:675", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.947191285846349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we, we understood that when we got to Seoul, that's where we were going to be staying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was fine by me. I mean, I was perfectly, I was happy. And I had been assigned to teach at Ewha Womans University, which in Korean culture, then and now, is the Radcliffe of Korea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a rather elite group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:681", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.30341740170967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very pleased and flattered and honored to have had that placement. And it was in the, uh, Ewha had a College of Education. Within the College of Education, there was a department at that time called the Department of Teaching Foreign Languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the foreign language that was being taught was English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "English, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Among others, French was one of them. And possibly German. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But your function was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:683", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.781574890788522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the foreign language that was being taught was English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "English, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Among others, French was one of them. And possibly German. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But your function was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My function was to teach English, conversational English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um, I'd like to get back to that in a minute, but let's talk about where you were living."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:685", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.312860989765024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Among others, French was one of them. And possibly German. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But your function was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My function was to teach English, conversational English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um, I'd like to get back to that in a minute, but let's talk about where you were living."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At some point here, you're saying goodbye to all the other people in, I want to say all the other kids in your group, and you and David go off to a place where you're going to live."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:687", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5698455441833596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My function was to teach English, conversational English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um, I'd like to get back to that in a minute, but let's talk about where you were living."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At some point here, you're saying goodbye to all the other people in, I want to say all the other kids in your group, and you and David go off to a place where you're going to live."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So we're conveyed to, uh, yong guan. That's the Korean word. A yong guan is like a boarding house. Uh. The particular one that we were conveyed to was in a neighborhood called Pukayan-dong, and the yong guan was operated by a Korean woman, middle age. There was no male around. So she was supporting herself with this business. It was in a colonial style Japanese house. So this would have been a house that would have been built during the Japanese occupation of Korea. And I found it immensely uncomfortable because the Korean houses have heated floors that are heated from below with charcoal briquettes called ondol. And the Japanese house was constructed, I think, for really a milder climate, the Japanese climate.\n\nIt did not have any floor heating. It had a long, dark hallway. It was very dark. I remember it was very dark. Dark wood. And electricity was available, but not used unless absolutely necessary. And we were given a room, like a bedroom sized room with a sliding paper door. So very little, no, no sound privacy whatsoever. The room had a window. It had some, um, tired looking wallpaper as I remember. I think it had one ceiling fixture with a string pull, and it had a potbelly stove and a double bed. That was about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No desks, no writing surface?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:691", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.172648819979456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So we're conveyed to, uh, yong guan. That's the Korean word. A yong guan is like a boarding house. Uh. The particular one that we were conveyed to was in a neighborhood called Pukayan-dong, and the yong guan was operated by a Korean woman, middle age. There was no male around. So she was supporting herself with this business. It was in a colonial style Japanese house. So this would have been a house that would have been built during the Japanese occupation of Korea. And I found it immensely uncomfortable because the Korean houses have heated floors that are heated from below with charcoal briquettes called ondol. And the Japanese house was constructed, I think, for really a milder climate, the Japanese climate.\n\nIt did not have any floor heating. It had a long, dark hallway. It was very dark. I remember it was very dark. Dark wood. And electricity was available, but not used unless absolutely necessary. And we were given a room, like a bedroom sized room with a sliding paper door. So very little, no, no sound privacy whatsoever. The room had a window. It had some, um, tired looking wallpaper as I remember. I think it had one ceiling fixture with a string pull, and it had a potbelly stove and a double bed. That was about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No desks, no writing surface?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And no, no cooking? So you couldn't cook for yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:697", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6085717695191437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. So across the hallway from our room, which was in kind of a noisy area, because right across the hallway was, uh, if you will, the kitchen. The kitchen had a sink with a cold running spigot and some cookware. And I think the heat, the cooking heat, was provided with a propane canister. There was a young girl from the countryside, Kyung Jah, who was about 16 years old, who had come up from the countryside because there was really no future for her there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And her wages, I think, were sent back to some extent to her family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She had had chickenpox as a child and had a deeply pocked face, which really reduced her marriage opportunities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It might have been smallpox."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:705", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3406062635560794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know what kind of pox it was, but it was certainly pox."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was very distressing to her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But she was, you know, a rock solid person and very nice and kind to us. And cooked all the meals for everyone who lived in the yong guan, which were a number of people. I think there was one other volunteer that we really never met because he was single and single volunteers that were male spent their time when they were not teaching at their college, and he was at a different college, drinking. That was the traditional male activity, going to a wine house and drinking and singing songs from dinnertime until midnight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds great, but that was just a guy thing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:707", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4895625150623104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was very distressing to her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But she was, you know, a rock solid person and very nice and kind to us. And cooked all the meals for everyone who lived in the yong guan, which were a number of people. I think there was one other volunteer that we really never met because he was single and single volunteers that were male spent their time when they were not teaching at their college, and he was at a different college, drinking. That was the traditional male activity, going to a wine house and drinking and singing songs from dinnertime until midnight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds great, but that was just a guy thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a guy thing. Absolutely a guy thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so who were the other people living in this boarding house with you? Were they Americans? Were they, were they Koreans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:709", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.655069461180345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But she was, you know, a rock solid person and very nice and kind to us. And cooked all the meals for everyone who lived in the yong guan, which were a number of people. I think there was one other volunteer that we really never met because he was single and single volunteers that were male spent their time when they were not teaching at their college, and he was at a different college, drinking. That was the traditional male activity, going to a wine house and drinking and singing songs from dinnertime until midnight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds great, but that was just a guy thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a guy thing. Absolutely a guy thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so who were the other people living in this boarding house with you? Were they Americans? Were they, were they Koreans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They must have been Koreans. But we really didn't, with the exception of the American, but we really didn't see anybody because everybody was on their own schedule. And we didn't eat together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't. So the 16 year old had to prepare meals."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:711", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.838966067978161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a guy thing. Absolutely a guy thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so who were the other people living in this boarding house with you? Were they Americans? Were they, were they Koreans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They must have been Koreans. But we really didn't, with the exception of the American, but we really didn't see anybody because everybody was on their own schedule. And we didn't eat together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't. So the 16 year old had to prepare meals."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For everyone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At staggered times, not all one meal that you'd all sit down and eat. Huh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:713", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0432956310868455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They must have been Koreans. But we really didn't, with the exception of the American, but we really didn't see anybody because everybody was on their own schedule. And we didn't eat together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't. So the 16 year old had to prepare meals."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For everyone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At staggered times, not all one meal that you'd all sit down and eat. Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she, she prepared our, our breakfast and she prepared, prepared our dinner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And dinner being the evening meal?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:717", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.5225871988726487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she, she prepared our, our breakfast and she prepared, prepared our dinner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And dinner being the evening meal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was traditional Korean food. And it was, you know, it was very, very tasty. She did a great job. And she would bring it in on a tray, or low tray, and we'd sit on the floor on a cushion and eat Korean style food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the floor was cold."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:721", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8797372825588259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was traditional Korean food. And it was, you know, it was very, very tasty. She did a great job. And she would bring it in on a tray, or low tray, and we'd sit on the floor on a cushion and eat Korean style food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the floor was cold."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The floor was cold, the bed was freezing, and the stove was not heated during the day because there's no way you're going to be putting wood into a stove if the occupants are gone from the room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they're at their universities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you came home, you came to a very cold."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:727", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5785147908900217, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was extremely cold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea how cold, but, you know, no heat and the outside temperature is 20, if you're lucky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so by the time the heat. It was almost not worth even putting wood in the stove, because by the time the stove was heated, it was time to go to bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And there wasn't anything else to do because you didn't have desks. You couldn't sit and write letters or prepare lessons or do anything."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:729", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.8650164343222464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea how cold, but, you know, no heat and the outside temperature is 20, if you're lucky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so by the time the heat. It was almost not worth even putting wood in the stove, because by the time the stove was heated, it was time to go to bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And there wasn't anything else to do because you didn't have desks. You couldn't sit and write letters or prepare lessons or do anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in your room. Not there, no. I did all of the lesson preparation at Ewha."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At school. Yeah. So you and David went off to different schools?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:731", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0722404825802734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so by the time the heat. It was almost not worth even putting wood in the stove, because by the time the stove was heated, it was time to go to bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And there wasn't anything else to do because you didn't have desks. You couldn't sit and write letters or prepare lessons or do anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in your room. Not there, no. I did all of the lesson preparation at Ewha."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At school. Yeah. So you and David went off to different schools?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He went to a different school. He went to, he was assigned to Sungkyunkwan, which is a Confucian college, and he was assigned to, I believe, their English department. And it was in the opposite direction from, from mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your work lives were totally separate?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:733", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3024894250891927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in your room. Not there, no. I did all of the lesson preparation at Ewha."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At school. Yeah. So you and David went off to different schools?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He went to a different school. He went to, he was assigned to Sungkyunkwan, which is a Confucian college, and he was assigned to, I believe, their English department. And it was in the opposite direction from, from mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your work lives were totally separate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you came back together. What, in what situations, since you were teaching English, did you need to use Korean in the course of teaching or did, was your need to use Korean mostly outside, like with the cook and as you traveled between home and school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:739", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.158421707941279, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The use of Korean was as you've described it for me. Now, for volunteers who were out in the countryside, they used Korean because nobody spoke any English, and so they learned differently. And also for the men, it was a very different experience than for the women. I think for the single women, it was terribly isolating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know how they did it because the culture was totally bifurcated on gender lines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in fact, the Korean word for a wife, loosely translated, means in person. In other words, the person who is inside the house, who doesn't leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the in person, and the man is the out person."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:743", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8992860591867644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in fact, the Korean word for a wife, loosely translated, means in person. In other words, the person who is inside the house, who doesn't leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the in person, and the man is the out person."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the man is the out person. And the in person is quite literal because they're either in a house or in a compound and you don't leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And most people had, of any means, had a servant, excuse me, like this country girl, because everything had to be done by hand. All the laundry was done by hand, all the cleaning was done by hand, all the cooking was done by hand. There were no refrigerators, so food had to be bought every day and prepared fresh. And so it was very labor intensive and people really needed a servant or a country girl or some such person. Um. At Ewha where I was placed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Should we just stop this for a minute?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:745", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.332540065763071, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the man is the out person. And the in person is quite literal because they're either in a house or in a compound and you don't leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And most people had, of any means, had a servant, excuse me, like this country girl, because everything had to be done by hand. All the laundry was done by hand, all the cleaning was done by hand, all the cooking was done by hand. There were no refrigerators, so food had to be bought every day and prepared fresh. And so it was very labor intensive and people really needed a servant or a country girl or some such person. Um. At Ewha where I was placed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Should we just stop this for a minute?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, we stopped the tape and we're back. We were talking about your situations in which you would need to use your Korean. And how did that go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:747", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.813933406403413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And most people had, of any means, had a servant, excuse me, like this country girl, because everything had to be done by hand. All the laundry was done by hand, all the cleaning was done by hand, all the cooking was done by hand. There were no refrigerators, so food had to be bought every day and prepared fresh. And so it was very labor intensive and people really needed a servant or a country girl or some such person. Um. At Ewha where I was placed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Should we just stop this for a minute?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, we stopped the tape and we're back. We were talking about your situations in which you would need to use your Korean. And how did that go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, uh, that went fine. I was able to do basic transactions. I was able to buy food in a market and negotiate price because Koreans had no pricing. It was all haggling. And haggling was considered a necessary and socially mandatory thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. And you were a fool if you paid the first price."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:751", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.943127662226435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, uh, that went fine. I was able to do basic transactions. I was able to buy food in a market and negotiate price because Koreans had no pricing. It was all haggling. And haggling was considered a necessary and socially mandatory thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. And you were a fool if you paid the first price."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You were an absolute fool if you paid the first price. And in fact, you know, it was rude not to haggle and not to negotiate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was sort of a game, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'd be, were you buying food that your 16 year old cook would then prepare? Or were you buying other fruits and things that you'd snack on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:753", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.6034751802515945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You were an absolute fool if you paid the first price. And in fact, you know, it was rude not to haggle and not to negotiate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was sort of a game, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'd be, were you buying food that your 16 year old cook would then prepare? Or were you buying other fruits and things that you'd snack on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for lunch. The food example I'm giving is when we lived in our second residence, which was within a compound."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you didn't stay in that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:767", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4979716160644039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she was very accomplished herself. And had, had broken out of, and because of the death of her husband, in a way, had been forced out of a traditional Korean marriage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she was unique. She also understood what it was like to be in a foreign country because she had lived in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the middle of the heartland, you know, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And experienced heat in winter. So she would understand your discomfort in not having heat in winter."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:775", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.283145276732821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I took to her immediately and she was extremely helpful and kind to both the other volunteer and myself. But I felt a strong affinity for her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she. Her English was good enough that we often ended up talking in English because we really wanted to talk to each other. And my Korean was not anywhere near as adequate as her English. Um, so unlike some volunteers who were forced to speak in Korean, I was not forced to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. She was assigned to be my chido kiosu and it took me a long time to understand what that actually meant. But in terms of the Korean language, it means chi is life and do is school and kiosu is two different words loosely meaning guide. So if you, if you translate it into English, it's something like guide on how to live, which is much more than mentor. I mean, the word mentor in English just pales by comparison. Her, her, her role was to, in effect, guide me on how to live well and to be socialized properly as a Korean and not make gaffes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. How wonderful to have your training continued in the form of this person."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:779", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.818697872509655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. She was assigned to be my chido kiosu and it took me a long time to understand what that actually meant. But in terms of the Korean language, it means chi is life and do is school and kiosu is two different words loosely meaning guide. So if you, if you translate it into English, it's something like guide on how to live, which is much more than mentor. I mean, the word mentor in English just pales by comparison. Her, her, her role was to, in effect, guide me on how to live well and to be socialized properly as a Korean and not make gaffes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. How wonderful to have your training continued in the form of this person."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was immensely helpful. And I made a terrible gaffe, which I will never forget, and to her actually. And that was, um. She came one day to our office and said that there would be an event that the volunteers were invited to and knowing that we were married, she said, and knowing that we had been taught that married volunteers did not, in Korean society the men and women did not socialize. But in this particular event, the Koreans were making an exception, if you will, and the married volunteers were invited to bring their spouse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I knew she had a daughter. So I asked her if she would be coming with her spouse because I was trying to gauge how."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, if her daughter would be coming with her?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:783", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2453060154440188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I knew she had a daughter. So I asked her if she would be coming with her spouse because I was trying to gauge how."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, if her daughter would be coming with her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, her daughter was a child. If she, Kim Yung Sook, would be coming with her spouse. I knew she had this, there had been a man in her life because she had a child."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you following me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:785", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.494784461604465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, her daughter was a child. If she, Kim Yung Sook, would be coming with her spouse. I knew she had this, there had been a man in her life because she had a child."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you following me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't yet know that she was a widow?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:793", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8024454528341174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In trying to ascertain how far the Koreans were deviating from their cultural norm by inviting us with our spouses to accommodate our cultural norm, I asked her if she would be bringing her spouse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In other words, was the deviation such that a Korean could bring their spouse?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she just looked at me. She didn't say a word. Her face was impassive. And she just looked at me. Uh, I had no idea. I had no idea what was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. How confusing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:797", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.694377102264342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she just looked at me. She didn't say a word. Her face was impassive. And she just looked at me. Uh, I had no idea. I had no idea what was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. How confusing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I understood that it was a question that was not going to be answered. But she wasn't going to tell me. It wasn't going to be answered. It was just not going to be answered. And so the moment passed, and that was the end of that encounter. But it was a critical encounter because the, I should not have asked the question. In other words, I should not have asked a personal question. And in particular, because that's intrusive. I mean, that was, that was an American thing to do and it was not a Korean thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had violated a norm and. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The leader's come through. This is Phyllis Noble interviewing Margaret Eger Taylor. And this is tape, we're beginning tape three. We're talking about Kim Jung Sook."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:803", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.06773265056837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, that, that moment moved on to some other moment. I found out later, because I inquired of another Korean teacher, uh, what, what had transpired, because I didn't understand it. And I was told that, in fact, her husband had died unexpectedly. He had been studying in the United States and the circumstances were not explained to me. But he died and left her a widow with a very young child in a culture where widows are not marriageable. So she was stuck, probably at age 30, I think, to fabricate a life for herself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite unexpectedly. And that her response to me was a, an appropriate Korean response to an inappropriate question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the appropriate Korean response was not to distress me, not to distress the other person. So I asked her a terribly distressing question, which I should not have asked, but her response is to maintain a neutrality so that I don't feel distressed. Had she told me that her husband had died, obviously I would have realized that I had asked a very painful question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you'd be embarrassed."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:805", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.630814056187078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite unexpectedly. And that her response to me was a, an appropriate Korean response to an inappropriate question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the appropriate Korean response was not to distress me, not to distress the other person. So I asked her a terribly distressing question, which I should not have asked, but her response is to maintain a neutrality so that I don't feel distressed. Had she told me that her husband had died, obviously I would have realized that I had asked a very painful question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you'd be embarrassed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I'd be embarrassed. So. And the injunction against embarrassing the other person is so great that her primary goal is not to cause me distress. So she's absorbing the distress, but she's dedicated to not causing me distress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Such an incredible difference in cultures."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:807", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.256460062430087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the appropriate Korean response was not to distress me, not to distress the other person. So I asked her a terribly distressing question, which I should not have asked, but her response is to maintain a neutrality so that I don't feel distressed. Had she told me that her husband had died, obviously I would have realized that I had asked a very painful question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you'd be embarrassed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I'd be embarrassed. So. And the injunction against embarrassing the other person is so great that her primary goal is not to cause me distress. So she's absorbing the distress, but she's dedicated to not causing me distress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Such an incredible difference in cultures."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you're learning through personal experience, not out of a textbook."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:809", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.9516222915889845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I'd be embarrassed. So. And the injunction against embarrassing the other person is so great that her primary goal is not to cause me distress. So she's absorbing the distress, but she's dedicated to not causing me distress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Such an incredible difference in cultures."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you're learning through personal experience, not out of a textbook."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And so that was a lesson I never forgot, and she never explained it to me. I heard this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From somebody else."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:819", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.337300024706573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't ask. She's about ready to answer. My phone rings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I go to get the phone. And it was brief. But whatever magic bubble, the meniscus on that bubble, it broke. I mean, there was no way to get back to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The moment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of sharing this."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:823", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.354691388526633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of sharing this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of sharing that information, so I will never know, ever. But I thought it was an interesting bookend that at a point many, many years later, when I'm married, have young children, and my husband is at that point, the father of my children has become ill and it's not an illness he's going to recover from. So we had that in common."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my story had a happy ending because of her. And she, that's just an example of, of how she guided me. Now, in that case, she couldn't guide me because I stepped right into it. But in every other situation, she offered a guidance and would explain to me how to behave and where pitfalls would be and how to negotiate and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How marvelous. Every Peace Corps volunteer should have."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:825", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.949657098362925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of sharing that information, so I will never know, ever. But I thought it was an interesting bookend that at a point many, many years later, when I'm married, have young children, and my husband is at that point, the father of my children has become ill and it's not an illness he's going to recover from. So we had that in common."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my story had a happy ending because of her. And she, that's just an example of, of how she guided me. Now, in that case, she couldn't guide me because I stepped right into it. But in every other situation, she offered a guidance and would explain to me how to behave and where pitfalls would be and how to negotiate and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How marvelous. Every Peace Corps volunteer should have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Such a person."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:827", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.610730109292139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my story had a happy ending because of her. And she, that's just an example of, of how she guided me. Now, in that case, she couldn't guide me because I stepped right into it. But in every other situation, she offered a guidance and would explain to me how to behave and where pitfalls would be and how to negotiate and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How marvelous. Every Peace Corps volunteer should have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Such a person."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every human being should have such a person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, please. And so was she instrumental in helping you find your second living arrangement?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:831", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8280618633236285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every human being should have such a person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, please. And so was she instrumental in helping you find your second living arrangement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was. So she knew that we were not, you know, that it was sort of an uncomfortable, cold, difficult place to live in and that I wanted to be able to do some cooking and shopping and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she, in her usual very kind way, saw to it that a distant, I think a cousin of hers or some not immediate relative, she had shared this information with him. And I'll never forget his name because we thought it was, even she thought it was an interesting last name. His last name was Bu and so his name was Ha To Bu. Oh, I'm sorry. His last name was Ha and his given names were To Bu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But so his family name, the family name comes first?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:837", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9191520758897505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The family name comes first. But the ending with the Bu in English sounds silly, you know. Ha To Bu, you know. So, so, we, you know, she, her English was such that she understood that this was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The humor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The humor. So Ha To Bu knew a Korean family that he, I don't know if he, I don't know if there was. Somebody was related to somebody, but I don't remember exactly what the relationship was. But this other Korean family had lived in a traditional Korean house in a compound in another neighborhood called Kayun-dong, and the family's last name was Chung. And they had within their compound, as was common for compounds of that type, a two room Korean structure with heated floor, ondol floor, that was I think originally part of, would have been a servant's quarters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where the servant actually or a servant's family actually lived in this two room house that was in the corner of the compound. And they asked us if we would like to live there. And I was delighted. The Korean architecture I think is just stunning. And, um, the traditional architecture. And it had this heated floor, which was the difference, all the difference in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:839", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2435023065441673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The humor. So Ha To Bu knew a Korean family that he, I don't know if he, I don't know if there was. Somebody was related to somebody, but I don't remember exactly what the relationship was. But this other Korean family had lived in a traditional Korean house in a compound in another neighborhood called Kayun-dong, and the family's last name was Chung. And they had within their compound, as was common for compounds of that type, a two room Korean structure with heated floor, ondol floor, that was I think originally part of, would have been a servant's quarters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where the servant actually or a servant's family actually lived in this two room house that was in the corner of the compound. And they asked us if we would like to live there. And I was delighted. The Korean architecture I think is just stunning. And, um, the traditional architecture. And it had this heated floor, which was the difference, all the difference in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it had a little unheated sort of porch, a summer kind of a porch extension, that I was able to, um. It was quite a tiny room, but I was able to make a kitchen out of it with a table. I got a propane gas burner and tank. There was no running water except in the courtyard. There was a common courtyard, there was a pump, a hand pump, and the courtyard also had outhouse, plus their main house. And, um, I was so happy to be able to do that. And in the context of my Korean language, then I was responsible for, for buying all the food and preparing all the food, because again, that's, that was a gender distinction. My then husband David would not have been, it would have been inappropriate for him to do the shopping or the cooking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Oh, and so, but you are cooking only for yourself and David, not for the family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:841", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.603891451715741, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where the servant actually or a servant's family actually lived in this two room house that was in the corner of the compound. And they asked us if we would like to live there. And I was delighted. The Korean architecture I think is just stunning. And, um, the traditional architecture. And it had this heated floor, which was the difference, all the difference in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it had a little unheated sort of porch, a summer kind of a porch extension, that I was able to, um. It was quite a tiny room, but I was able to make a kitchen out of it with a table. I got a propane gas burner and tank. There was no running water except in the courtyard. There was a common courtyard, there was a pump, a hand pump, and the courtyard also had outhouse, plus their main house. And, um, I was so happy to be able to do that. And in the context of my Korean language, then I was responsible for, for buying all the food and preparing all the food, because again, that's, that was a gender distinction. My then husband David would not have been, it would have been inappropriate for him to do the shopping or the cooking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Oh, and so, but you are cooking only for yourself and David, not for the family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. We were only cooking for ourselves. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had they offered to cook for you or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:843", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.004323835239712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it had a little unheated sort of porch, a summer kind of a porch extension, that I was able to, um. It was quite a tiny room, but I was able to make a kitchen out of it with a table. I got a propane gas burner and tank. There was no running water except in the courtyard. There was a common courtyard, there was a pump, a hand pump, and the courtyard also had outhouse, plus their main house. And, um, I was so happy to be able to do that. And in the context of my Korean language, then I was responsible for, for buying all the food and preparing all the food, because again, that's, that was a gender distinction. My then husband David would not have been, it would have been inappropriate for him to do the shopping or the cooking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Oh, and so, but you are cooking only for yourself and David, not for the family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. We were only cooking for ourselves. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had they offered to cook for you or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. They, you know, the families were autonomous in the sense that we came and went as we wished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you paid them some rent?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:845", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2270264835996803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. We were only cooking for ourselves. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had they offered to cook for you or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. They, you know, the families were autonomous in the sense that we came and went as we wished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you paid them some rent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We paid them rent. They had four children, one, the oldest of whom was a son. They had three sons and a daughter, but the oldest son was maybe a year or two younger than we were, maybe a couple of years younger than that. But I think what they were hoping was that it would give him, this older son, an opportunity to speak a little English and to be around Americans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm, mm hmm."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:853", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.394340014631428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And actually, the oldest son did come visit us when we were living in Ithaca. Now back to the Kim Jung Sook story. I want to give you the, the side of the experience that I had where the guidance that I got, which made all the difference in the world, was either not given or was not picked up on. And it led eventually to our leaving Korea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was that David at Sungkyunkwan was placed in an English department which I don't think was part of a college of education. So it was professors teaching English who were considered to have mastered the English language enough that they could be teaching college students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The circumstances of this, I don't know, but after he had been there about a year, uh, I became aware that something had happened. And what that something was, I think David had a hard time explaining because he didn't know what it was, just like I didn't know what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So mysteries about the differences in the culture where you can offend somebody and not know that you did and not know what's going on."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:859", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2844170296727406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not know what's going on. And offend in a way that causes that person to lose, in Kim Yung Sook's case, she didn't lose face. I just asked a very, very inappropriate question that caused her then to have to behave the way she did so that she would not cause me discomfort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In his case, uh, the, the gaffe, which is, you know, I think he was just behaving in an American way and so he was unaware that he was making a gaffe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not totally unaware, but I think totally caught off guard by this particular one. The gaffe was that he caused, or as a result of something he did, one of his Korean colleagues, one of these professors, lost face in such a way that it was irrecoverable. I mean, there was no way to undo it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he correct the guy's English or what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:865", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.036237352088807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not exactly sure what. Apparently, there was a discussion. You know, he was in, two or three of the Korean teachers were talking. I think one of them might have been the department chairman. And somehow David, in speaking English, said something that the chairman, I think it was the chairman of the department, did not understand and that this. That itself would have been difficult. But it occurred in front of two other or three other faculty so that the lack of the, the department chairman's capacity to process what David was saying in English revealed a deficiency in the department chairman's comprehension or use of the English language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In front of colleagues, which was, you know, it would have been embarrassing probably in any context. But in this particular context, not, it caused a loss of face that was not repairable. Because the, someone in the university, I don't know who it was, at the end of the semester reported back to the Korean Peace Corps office because the office director stayed in touch with the placements. And so that we would sort of give them feedback on us, came back, and the feedback came back that they didn't want him back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That this event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That they didn't want your husband back or they didn't want the chair?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:869", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.513873274183712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That this event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That they didn't want your husband back or they didn't want the chair?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't want my husband back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The chair stayed and the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The guy who caused the embarrassment had to go."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:875", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4483858356429518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it was, it was untenable to have him stay there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He, he was devastated. He didn't understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He certainly didn't intend it and, and, um, and was devastated that he had caused, you know, this level of distress to the chairman, but then also devastated that the level of distress that he caused was such that he was expelled, if you will, from, from that placement. Because I think otherwise he was quite happy in the placement. And, but he did not have this chido kiosu in the way that I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chido kiosu again is?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:877", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8315398173810573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He, he was devastated. He didn't understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He certainly didn't intend it and, and, um, and was devastated that he had caused, you know, this level of distress to the chairman, but then also devastated that the level of distress that he caused was such that he was expelled, if you will, from, from that placement. Because I think otherwise he was quite happy in the placement. And, but he did not have this chido kiosu in the way that I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chido kiosu again is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is the guide in the way of living."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:879", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.25726646375673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He certainly didn't intend it and, and, um, and was devastated that he had caused, you know, this level of distress to the chairman, but then also devastated that the level of distress that he caused was such that he was expelled, if you will, from, from that placement. Because I think otherwise he was quite happy in the placement. And, but he did not have this chido kiosu in the way that I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chido kiosu again is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is the guide in the way of living."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Guide in the school of way of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. Yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:881", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.7302960708408115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is the guide in the way of living."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Guide in the school of way of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:883", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.255884523156457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Guide in the school of way of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He may have had one, but he didn't have one that was able to help him navigate or avoid this, the shoals of this particular disaster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If there was any way to navigate it once it's been said."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:887", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.488746324884514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He may have had one, but he didn't have one that was able to help him navigate or avoid this, the shoals of this particular disaster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If there was any way to navigate it once it's been said."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once it's out, it's out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once it's out, it's out. And Kim Yung Sook, I mean, in my case it was out, but I didn't embarrass her in front of any colleagues. I wasn't embarrassing her in the context of her, uh, her professional credentials."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. It was just, there was no face losing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:891", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.788575709733967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once it's out, it's out. And Kim Yung Sook, I mean, in my case it was out, but I didn't embarrass her in front of any colleagues. I wasn't embarrassing her in the context of her, uh, her professional credentials."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. It was just, there was no face losing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was uncomfortable, but there was no loss of face."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, but in David's case, there was loss of face and it was irreparable because apparently the Peace Corps office, the director tried to sort of work it through with the English department at Sungkyunkwan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Peace Corps director of Korea?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:895", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.566142851523416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, but in David's case, there was loss of face and it was irreparable because apparently the Peace Corps office, the director tried to sort of work it through with the English department at Sungkyunkwan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Peace Corps director of Korea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Because Sungkyunkwan said, you know, we do not want this volunteer next year, which would have been year number two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can you send us somebody else? And the Peace Corps director's response was to try to resolve the problem. And several weeks went by. I don't, we were not privy to what the resolution efforts were but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meanwhile, you're continuing to teach because the semester is not over?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:897", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9623809461371287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Because Sungkyunkwan said, you know, we do not want this volunteer next year, which would have been year number two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can you send us somebody else? And the Peace Corps director's response was to try to resolve the problem. And several weeks went by. I don't, we were not privy to what the resolution efforts were but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meanwhile, you're continuing to teach because the semester is not over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Excuse me. I'm going to have to have some water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. [tape break]"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:899", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.402645495707921, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can you send us somebody else? And the Peace Corps director's response was to try to resolve the problem. And several weeks went by. I don't, we were not privy to what the resolution efforts were but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meanwhile, you're continuing to teach because the semester is not over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Excuse me. I'm going to have to have some water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. [tape break]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't remember the exact sequence, which really doesn't matter in terms of, of whether the semester was over or not over. But by the time it was over, it was clear that this situation was not reparable. And it just was not reparable, which was almost incomprehensible to an American. But on the other hand, in the context of the culture was understandable. So we have a cultural gap here that cannot be bridged. That meant that he didn't have, David didn't have a place to teach because his assignment had been removed by the Korean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And could the Peace Corps not simply have found a different school for David?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:901", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.8918283285643565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Excuse me. I'm going to have to have some water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. [tape break]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't remember the exact sequence, which really doesn't matter in terms of, of whether the semester was over or not over. But by the time it was over, it was clear that this situation was not reparable. And it just was not reparable, which was almost incomprehensible to an American. But on the other hand, in the context of the culture was understandable. So we have a cultural gap here that cannot be bridged. That meant that he didn't have, David didn't have a place to teach because his assignment had been removed by the Korean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And could the Peace Corps not simply have found a different school for David?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To start all over again?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:903", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.213142587293729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't remember the exact sequence, which really doesn't matter in terms of, of whether the semester was over or not over. But by the time it was over, it was clear that this situation was not reparable. And it just was not reparable, which was almost incomprehensible to an American. But on the other hand, in the context of the culture was understandable. So we have a cultural gap here that cannot be bridged. That meant that he didn't have, David didn't have a place to teach because his assignment had been removed by the Korean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And could the Peace Corps not simply have found a different school for David?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To start all over again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tried. That was, that was the thought. Well, we'll look for another placement. But it was the Korean Ministry of Education, I think, that was involved in negotiating with the schools that would be interested in having an American Peace Corps volunteer there in the capacity of a TESL teacher. There were not. The way we understood it was that there were not placements that would be available to begin the next semester, which would have been coming up quickly. That they, in fact, could not place him. They certainly couldn't place him in Seoul and they couldn't place him at a university because there just were not any available placements. I'm not sure if there was discussion about, well, maybe he could be placed in a middle school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or as a tutor?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:919", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8749055875678176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had about a month and we traveled to Southeast Asia, and when we came back, things still had not been resolved. We still didn't have a placement. And they, he said, I'm, I'd like to go home. And I approached the Peace Corps office after he and I had talked. I said, you know, I don't want to go home, but if you want to go back to Ithaca, you know, I'll meet you in a year and we'll pick up from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I proposed this to the Peace Corps office. I think we did together. And the Peace Corps response was, and this was official doctrine at that time, you cannot do that. You can stay in country together or you can leave in country together, but you can't one of you stay and one of you leave. You came married and you were going to have to either stay or leave married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so and we said, well, we're happy to stay married, but, you know, I'd like to stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Finish out your, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:927", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.381810070976707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very painful. And it was painful for both of us, but painful for us, I think, in different ways. And for me, it left this huge chasm of unfinished experience. A lack of closure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was being given in Korea an opportunity that I would not have been given in the United States. In other words, somebody that's fresh out of college to be able to teach at the finest university, women's university in Korea, in a, in a setting where I had a wonderful guide who had gone out of her way to help us find housing that we were very happy with and, uh, you know, where I had an opportunity. She did other things, too. She took me, she knew I was interested in Korean arts of various kinds. And she took me to neighborhoods, old neighborhoods, where they had Korean artifacts that were old enough that they could be deemed antiques or antiquities and leave the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I felt like I was just losing an opportunity that I would never be able to replace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I'm sorry that happened."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:933", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2672291782945226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was, it was a problem. Now, the upshot of that is that, uh, in terms of how it affected me going forward in my life, and I mentioned this to you yesterday I think, that when I was working in a maximum security psychiatric hospital with male inpatients who had been found not guilty by reason of insanity for crimes that were sort of minor to very major, murder and rape and so forth, that when I was told precipitously that I had to conduct psychosocial rehabilitation groups with this population, the model that I used to help me do something that I had no experience in and no training in, was to go back to being that 22 year old volunteer in Korea.\n\nRemind myself that I had been able to deal cross-culturally with populations that were not native English speakers, did not share my culture any more than these psychiatric inpatients. These male psychiatric inpatients, for the most part, did not speak English the way I speak English. They had grown up in the inner city, inner cities in Michigan for the most part, and had a very different language, which I, I don't think I fully even understood at the time how different. Not only a different language, but a different way of, they were socialized differently. They saw the world differently. They might have, they, they were in, in terms of their cultural backgrounds or linguistic background as foreign to me as these Korean students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So you were able to tell yourself, well, I've been in something like this before. I can do this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I pulled that out of the bag."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought, I'm going to pretend I'm Kim Jung Sook and I'm going to pretend I can do this, and I am going to pretend that I have her, uh, her qualities, her, her ability to be a guide in the school of life. Because what was I doing? I was assigned psychosocial rehabilitation. What is that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you act appropriately?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:935", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6302546425494695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I pulled that out of the bag."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought, I'm going to pretend I'm Kim Jung Sook and I'm going to pretend I can do this, and I am going to pretend that I have her, uh, her qualities, her, her ability to be a guide in the school of life. Because what was I doing? I was assigned psychosocial rehabilitation. What is that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you act appropriately?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How do you act appropriately in this culture? Because you wouldn't be in this facility if you had acted appropriately in this culture. You wouldn't have ended up here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a really unique experience in having a very clear transfer of what you learned in Peace Corps then being applicable in a really quite different situation later here in the United States."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:945", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5084838736464112, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And within them too. I mean, that this exchange was working. And I remember one time being, uh, reprimanded by one of the inpatients who was a middle aged African American male from the inner city of Saginaw and had, was quite psychotic, but also at times quite lucid. And he was very interested in learning, although I think his education had ended in eighth grade and the offense was a serious offense and he was there as not guilty by reason of insanity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in terms of the psychosocial rehabilitation and my role as the teacher, the guide in the school of life, like if you want to leave this facility, you need to understand that the courts are going to be looking at aspects of your behavior here in this facility and making judgments about whether or not, uh, you are a danger to self and others. That's the, the statutory criteria. Uh, and if you are, what level of confinement is required to keep you from being an active danger to self and others? And in Michigan the statute is that the level of confinement has to be the, quote, least restrictive, and the least restrictive in Michigan would have, or the next step from maximum security, would have been a psychiatric hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Would be to a regional psychiatric hospital where there would be a high level of supervision, but no trained security staff, and it would not be a locked facility. The forensic center is an absolutely locked down facility the same way you would expect in a prison. Even though it was a hospital. Um. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I've got lots more questions."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:949", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6277578686992732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Would be to a regional psychiatric hospital where there would be a high level of supervision, but no trained security staff, and it would not be a locked facility. The forensic center is an absolutely locked down facility the same way you would expect in a prison. Even though it was a hospital. Um. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I've got lots more questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, dear. Oh, dear, dear. Um. I said something about socialization and trying to model what he would need to understand he needed to do to go to a less restrictive facility. And he shot back with, we were socialized, just not like you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bingo. He got me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An intelligent guy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:951", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6975087429991924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, dear. Oh, dear, dear. Um. I said something about socialization and trying to model what he would need to understand he needed to do to go to a less restrictive facility. And he shot back with, we were socialized, just not like you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bingo. He got me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An intelligent guy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's aware of the very different cultures."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:955", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8611219049372745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's aware of the very different cultures."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Street smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. More questions?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would like to go back to Korea a little bit more."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:957", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9568021165969717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Street smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. More questions?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would like to go back to Korea a little bit more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to talk more about your, um, your teaching, your sense of being a teacher. And we haven't really spent a lot of time talking about what your life was like within the university in terms of being in the classroom. Your students were university students. They were the elite women of Korea."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:959", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.063113462885524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. More questions?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would like to go back to Korea a little bit more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to talk more about your, um, your teaching, your sense of being a teacher. And we haven't really spent a lot of time talking about what your life was like within the university in terms of being in the classroom. Your students were university students. They were the elite women of Korea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your job was to teach them a conversational English."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:961", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1812371809839157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to talk more about your, um, your teaching, your sense of being a teacher. And we haven't really spent a lot of time talking about what your life was like within the university in terms of being in the classroom. Your students were university students. They were the elite women of Korea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your job was to teach them a conversational English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who, um, were there other Americans on the staff? Were there other native American teachers? Were you the only one? Well, I mean, native speakers of English."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:963", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3124857566487953, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your job was to teach them a conversational English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who, um, were there other Americans on the staff? Were there other native American teachers? Were you the only one? Well, I mean, native speakers of English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was this other volunteer that, a woman volunteer who did it too. But we were assigned, we had responsibilities individually. So I was assigned to conduct, plan and conduct and grade students in a classroom setting at a college level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Had the other Peace Corps volunteer been there before you got there, was she the?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:965", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4583175073875503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who, um, were there other Americans on the staff? Were there other native American teachers? Were you the only one? Well, I mean, native speakers of English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was this other volunteer that, a woman volunteer who did it too. But we were assigned, we had responsibilities individually. So I was assigned to conduct, plan and conduct and grade students in a classroom setting at a college level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Had the other Peace Corps volunteer been there before you got there, was she the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. She came, she came with me. We were in the same training group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had there been other Peace Corps volunteers in that university before you got there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:967", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6203527859861668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was this other volunteer that, a woman volunteer who did it too. But we were assigned, we had responsibilities individually. So I was assigned to conduct, plan and conduct and grade students in a classroom setting at a college level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Had the other Peace Corps volunteer been there before you got there, was she the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. She came, she came with me. We were in the same training group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had there been other Peace Corps volunteers in that university before you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, possibly. I don't know for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't overlap. So there wasn't anybody in your own culture who could guide you into doing this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:969", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.800391984429074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. She came, she came with me. We were in the same training group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had there been other Peace Corps volunteers in that university before you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, possibly. I don't know for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't overlap. So there wasn't anybody in your own culture who could guide you into doing this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Were you the only two non Koreans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:973", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2227061536161408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Were you the only two non Koreans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the department of teaching English as a foreign language, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were non Koreans. There was a woman, a French woman, who was teaching French, and I imagine there were some others too. But I specifically remember her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So in your classes, how, how big, how many students were in a room?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:975", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4696735040179343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the department of teaching English as a foreign language, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were non Koreans. There was a woman, a French woman, who was teaching French, and I imagine there were some others too. But I specifically remember her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So in your classes, how, how big, how many students were in a room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably 30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and you're supposed to do conversational English among, in a class of 30?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:977", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.744081671131038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were non Koreans. There was a woman, a French woman, who was teaching French, and I imagine there were some others too. But I specifically remember her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So in your classes, how, how big, how many students were in a room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably 30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and you're supposed to do conversational English among, in a class of 30?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a class of 30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you do that? The class would last, what, an hour or so?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:981", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9186193470753553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a class of 30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you do that? The class would last, what, an hour or so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. A standard maybe 50 minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not easy partly because these women were socialized to be extremely polite and to do what the teacher wanted rather than be spontaneous and, uh, and strike out on their own, if you will, linguistically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have text books that you were expected to follow chapter by chapter?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:983", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0206881634170615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. A standard maybe 50 minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not easy partly because these women were socialized to be extremely polite and to do what the teacher wanted rather than be spontaneous and, uh, and strike out on their own, if you will, linguistically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have text books that you were expected to follow chapter by chapter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We were expected to come up with our own. Our own system. There might have been textbooks, but they certainly weren't. I don't remember following a textbook. It might have been there as a guide."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to create your own curriculum, prepare your own materials?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:985", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1340979593522904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not easy partly because these women were socialized to be extremely polite and to do what the teacher wanted rather than be spontaneous and, uh, and strike out on their own, if you will, linguistically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have text books that you were expected to follow chapter by chapter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We were expected to come up with our own. Our own system. There might have been textbooks, but they certainly weren't. I don't remember following a textbook. It might have been there as a guide."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to create your own curriculum, prepare your own materials?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had Peace Corps training prepared, prepared you to do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:987", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2601088437247672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We were expected to come up with our own. Our own system. There might have been textbooks, but they certainly weren't. I don't remember following a textbook. It might have been there as a guide."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to create your own curriculum, prepare your own materials?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had Peace Corps training prepared, prepared you to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not quite, um. And I'm trying to, I mean, your question is a good one. And I don't know why I don't have a clear sense of this, but I certainly got guidance from, from Kim Yung Sook about what to do. She might have guided me toward, you know, certain lesson objectives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you given a chance to observe her teaching class?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:991", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5556899305244039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not quite, um. And I'm trying to, I mean, your question is a good one. And I don't know why I don't have a clear sense of this, but I certainly got guidance from, from Kim Yung Sook about what to do. She might have guided me toward, you know, certain lesson objectives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you given a chance to observe her teaching class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. No. I mean, we were, we were put in with the understanding that we had enough competence that we could perform this task."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that expectation is, is a, is a formative expectation, because even if you don't know how to perform that task, you make sure that you look like you know how to perform that task. And if you do that long enough, eventually you're performing that task."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you divide them up into small groups within the classroom of 30 or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:993", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7285443672493377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. No. I mean, we were, we were put in with the understanding that we had enough competence that we could perform this task."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that expectation is, is a, is a formative expectation, because even if you don't know how to perform that task, you make sure that you look like you know how to perform that task. And if you do that long enough, eventually you're performing that task."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you divide them up into small groups within the classroom of 30 or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was not possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It had to be whole group conversation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:997", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.134005391665849, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was not possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It had to be whole group conversation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the idea, unfortunately, because of the Korean schooling system, what they were used to was resuscitation and memorization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They could memorize huge chunks of text."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. So you maybe would."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:999", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.260005990739832, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the idea, unfortunately, because of the Korean schooling system, what they were used to was resuscitation and memorization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They could memorize huge chunks of text."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. So you maybe would."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They could memorize Shakespeare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd have a dialog or something that you'd think up and have them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1001", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.2888955452664801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They could memorize huge chunks of text."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. So you maybe would."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They could memorize Shakespeare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd have a dialog or something that you'd think up and have them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very hard to engage them in a dialog. They, they were, they would have been happy if I had handed them, you know, a first act of a Shakespearean play and told them to memorize it and come back the next day and recite it. They would have been able to do that excellently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that's not going to help them along in conversational English."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1007", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.39629018555072715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. So I was bucking all of their socialization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Which was, you know, you don't say, you, you do, but you learn what the teacher tells you and you repeat it back like a parrot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you don't ask questions and you don't set out on your own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. But knowing how to ask a question is paramount in a conversation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1011", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.4892471426552187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you don't ask questions and you don't set out on your own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. But knowing how to ask a question is paramount in a conversation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So you can see, you can see what, what the problem is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And to be willing to make mistakes. And of course, if you make a mistake, you lose face. And that is a serious, serious problem. And I think, uh. And I think it's a problem that is so culturally embedded that it persisted long after I left and to some extent may still be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I could imagine that had you been able to stay for years, you could then have been the person who'd write the teacher training manual of how to teach conversational English in Korea. You would have figured it out. You obviously figured out something because you felt good about your work. You were comfortable and you would have liked to have stayed longer. So you were figuring it out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1017", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6711209089920694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, I figured out that they weren't going to volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, you know, I had a class list with all their names on it, and, um, and I would call on them, and I'm sure that was exquisitely painful for them. But in the absence of their volunteering, I had, I had really no, no recourse. And I was mindful of how hard it was, that, that they were, that they wanted more than anything to be very good students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And unfortunately, their notion of how to be a very good student was almost antithetical to my notion of how to engage in teaching English at a conversational level, which is very much like a child learns a language. You make all sorts of mistakes. You have to make mistakes. There's no way not to make mistakes. And if you don't open your mouth and try to mimic what's being said or be more than willing to make a mistake, it's very hard to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right. I'm assuming you had no discipline problems. You, first of all, you're in a university. You're not in a middle school. And the everything you've said would lead me to think that you didn't have to cope with discipline issues."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1019", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7456898988800771, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, you know, I had a class list with all their names on it, and, um, and I would call on them, and I'm sure that was exquisitely painful for them. But in the absence of their volunteering, I had, I had really no, no recourse. And I was mindful of how hard it was, that, that they were, that they wanted more than anything to be very good students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And unfortunately, their notion of how to be a very good student was almost antithetical to my notion of how to engage in teaching English at a conversational level, which is very much like a child learns a language. You make all sorts of mistakes. You have to make mistakes. There's no way not to make mistakes. And if you don't open your mouth and try to mimic what's being said or be more than willing to make a mistake, it's very hard to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right. I'm assuming you had no discipline problems. You, first of all, you're in a university. You're not in a middle school. And the everything you've said would lead me to think that you didn't have to cope with discipline issues."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Discipline was a problem, but again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the opposite."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1023", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9206048134321939, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Discipline was a problem, but again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the opposite."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In an opposite way, they were too disciplined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were too disciplined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any supervision from Peace Corps staff? Did you have Peace Corps, uh, people from Peace Corps coming out to observe you teach or to give you suggestions or to answer questions?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1025", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.022894237146882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In an opposite way, they were too disciplined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were too disciplined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any supervision from Peace Corps staff? Did you have Peace Corps, uh, people from Peace Corps coming out to observe you teach or to give you suggestions or to answer questions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anybody ever come out to visit you to see if you were doing okay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1027", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1365491523854245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were too disciplined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any supervision from Peace Corps staff? Did you have Peace Corps, uh, people from Peace Corps coming out to observe you teach or to give you suggestions or to answer questions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anybody ever come out to visit you to see if you were doing okay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Either in your living situation or at school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1033", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5590523352337784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. And I don't think I expected it. I mean, we were treated as competent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until proven otherwise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you called in to Seoul for Peace Corps conferences?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1035", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.732280372481976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until proven otherwise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you called in to Seoul for Peace Corps conferences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or continued training of some sort or other?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1037", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9247559694244176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you called in to Seoul for Peace Corps conferences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or continued training of some sort or other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. There were times when we assembled ourselves in the Peace Corps office and people came in from the country too. I mean, we did have to sort of report in, uh, I don't have a clear idea of what we did. I just remember that, you know, there would be something that we would all have to be processed through. I don't know if it was inoculations or medical exams. We had, we had to check in, I guess, and maybe be asked about how things were going. Nobody came to our sites. Nobody came to my site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And did you, did you get some feedback from Peace Corps or was there any sort of evaluation summary process? You left after a year. You didn't leave at the end of the full two years. So where's the, was there any opportunity for you to reflect on what your experience had been while you were still in Korea?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1039", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1386177438049083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or continued training of some sort or other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. There were times when we assembled ourselves in the Peace Corps office and people came in from the country too. I mean, we did have to sort of report in, uh, I don't have a clear idea of what we did. I just remember that, you know, there would be something that we would all have to be processed through. I don't know if it was inoculations or medical exams. We had, we had to check in, I guess, and maybe be asked about how things were going. Nobody came to our sites. Nobody came to my site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And did you, did you get some feedback from Peace Corps or was there any sort of evaluation summary process? You left after a year. You didn't leave at the end of the full two years. So where's the, was there any opportunity for you to reflect on what your experience had been while you were still in Korea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Um. There was, in effect, an exit interview."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. An interview?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1049", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2500258155174646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, you know, I think it was more of a bureaucratic necessity. And, um, and I was given and I still have a copy that was prepared by the Peace Corps office in Korea, partly in Korean and partly in English of exactly what I had taught, the classes I had taught, and the number of hours I taught in the year that I was there at Ewha."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was documented."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we got on a plane and left. And it was very sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Would you, um, do you find yourself recommending to young people today that they join the Peace Corps on the whole? Would you recommend it as an experience for a young college graduate, or for an older person?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1057", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.42939462813209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that you will not understand for a long time how life changing it was. That while you're in the country doing something as mundane as speaking your native language, you'll wonder what good am I and who cares? And why is this important enough? And how many lives am I going to impact or change? Um. And you'll ask yourself. My advice would be you'll ask yourself those questions. Your peers will be asking themselves those questions and you'll be asking them when you get together of each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Forget it. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you, if you think you've done anything, you'll probably leave thinking you accomplished nothing, and you'll think you had an opportunity that was remarkable and you won't understand for a long time how, in fact, remarkable that opportunity was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But don't worry about it, because that seems to be a universal experience. Things are so different now in terms of communication that I can't even begin to imagine what a current Peace Corps experience would be like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Skyping home."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1061", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.999252627323568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But don't worry about it, because that seems to be a universal experience. Things are so different now in terms of communication that I can't even begin to imagine what a current Peace Corps experience would be like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Skyping home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. What I remember is standing out one winter night in the courtyard of the, of the Korean compound that we lived in, looking at the moon. And thinking, because I had had to go to the piantso at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Go to the outhouse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The piantso being the outhouse. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1063", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.332502919248409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. What I remember is standing out one winter night in the courtyard of the, of the Korean compound that we lived in, looking at the moon. And thinking, because I had had to go to the piantso at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Go to the outhouse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The piantso being the outhouse. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Coming back and I'm looking up and it's winter and this moon is very, very bright. And the landscape below, in other words, everything below the moon, all the horizon. And it's all Korean. Thinking, how did that moon that I saw in the United States, how did that moon make its way over Korea so that it's the same moon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The very same one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1069", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.571334594305087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Over this completely alien landscape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that image remains with me, and the communication available to us at that time was. We were halfway around the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the world was a very big, very round place. So halfway around the world meant if you sent out a letter, an airgram, it took six weeks to get there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six weeks to get there, so another six weeks to get, for a reply to get back to you wherever."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1071", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.968149549227875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that image remains with me, and the communication available to us at that time was. We were halfway around the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the world was a very big, very round place. So halfway around the world meant if you sent out a letter, an airgram, it took six weeks to get there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six weeks to get there, so another six weeks to get, for a reply to get back to you wherever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There was no phone. You didn't call home. There was no Internet. There was no radio. The family we stayed with had a TV. And I remember they watched the moon landing in '69 and they invited us to watch it. And I wasn't interested for some reason."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, did you have American? Did the Peace Corps provide you with a book locker?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1073", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.409055054697639, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the world was a very big, very round place. So halfway around the world meant if you sent out a letter, an airgram, it took six weeks to get there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six weeks to get there, so another six weeks to get, for a reply to get back to you wherever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There was no phone. You didn't call home. There was no Internet. There was no radio. The family we stayed with had a TV. And I remember they watched the moon landing in '69 and they invited us to watch it. And I wasn't interested for some reason."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, did you have American? Did the Peace Corps provide you with a book locker?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or with a subscription to Time magazine or something so that you could stay abreast of current events?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1077", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.20870994407116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or with a subscription to Time magazine or something so that you could stay abreast of current events?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there were, there were book lockers in the office, the main Peace Corps office in Seoul. People swapped out stuff. We could get redacted copies of magazines like The New York Times, like Time magazine, but they were redacted. In other words, the Korean government, it was still a military dictatorship and there was censorship. So, you know, large quantities of the magazine would be redacted out, missing, blacked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was censored."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Censored mail. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1079", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.676344382301289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there were, there were book lockers in the office, the main Peace Corps office in Seoul. People swapped out stuff. We could get redacted copies of magazines like The New York Times, like Time magazine, but they were redacted. In other words, the Korean government, it was still a military dictatorship and there was censorship. So, you know, large quantities of the magazine would be redacted out, missing, blacked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was censored."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Censored mail. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, did your time in Korea affect your views about your own country, about the United States?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1081", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.084827091445876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was censored."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Censored mail. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, did your time in Korea affect your views about your own country, about the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yes. When we came back to the United States, I found that a lot of what I thought Americans did was crude, rude, impolite, sloppy, lackadaisical. Vain. Sort of aimless. I mean, the Korean culture is very cohesive as a culture at that time. Very homogeneous racially, um, and very much smaller than the United States. I think the land mass is about that of Indiana with a high density of population. So, um, America just seemed sprawling and unkempt and disorganized and all the things that immigrants come over here for, to, to get out of the strictures of their own small overpopulated, or even large overpopulated, but highly, highly, either caste regulated or culturally regulated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you can look at your own culture somewhat through the eyes of another culture."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1083", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.538696768273196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, did your time in Korea affect your views about your own country, about the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yes. When we came back to the United States, I found that a lot of what I thought Americans did was crude, rude, impolite, sloppy, lackadaisical. Vain. Sort of aimless. I mean, the Korean culture is very cohesive as a culture at that time. Very homogeneous racially, um, and very much smaller than the United States. I think the land mass is about that of Indiana with a high density of population. So, um, America just seemed sprawling and unkempt and disorganized and all the things that immigrants come over here for, to, to get out of the strictures of their own small overpopulated, or even large overpopulated, but highly, highly, either caste regulated or culturally regulated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you can look at your own culture somewhat through the eyes of another culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And which is a unique."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1085", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.0429964091924395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yes. When we came back to the United States, I found that a lot of what I thought Americans did was crude, rude, impolite, sloppy, lackadaisical. Vain. Sort of aimless. I mean, the Korean culture is very cohesive as a culture at that time. Very homogeneous racially, um, and very much smaller than the United States. I think the land mass is about that of Indiana with a high density of population. So, um, America just seemed sprawling and unkempt and disorganized and all the things that immigrants come over here for, to, to get out of the strictures of their own small overpopulated, or even large overpopulated, but highly, highly, either caste regulated or culturally regulated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you can look at your own culture somewhat through the eyes of another culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And which is a unique."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which, which most Americans are incapable of doing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1089", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.225921492830172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which, which most Americans are incapable of doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. You become bifocal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that bifocal quality never leaves you because you've, you've seen a different perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever gone back to Korea? You left Korea in 1969?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1091", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.806579436477969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. You become bifocal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that bifocal quality never leaves you because you've, you've seen a different perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever gone back to Korea? You left Korea in 1969?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "'70."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1970. Have you gone back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1093", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.229532707197743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that bifocal quality never leaves you because you've, you've seen a different perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever gone back to Korea? You left Korea in 1969?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "'70."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1970. Have you gone back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have not. The Korean government, uh, some years ago, ten or so, invited the Peace Corps volunteers that had served to come back for a week and, uh, to, to be sort of hosted and feted as a group by the Korean government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how very special."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1095", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.69948078577527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'70."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1970. Have you gone back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have not. The Korean government, uh, some years ago, ten or so, invited the Peace Corps volunteers that had served to come back for a week and, uh, to, to be sort of hosted and feted as a group by the Korean government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how very special."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very special. I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were going to pay for?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1097", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.221645317528078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have not. The Korean government, uh, some years ago, ten or so, invited the Peace Corps volunteers that had served to come back for a week and, uh, to, to be sort of hosted and feted as a group by the Korean government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how very special."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very special. I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were going to pay for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they paid for, for, they didn't pay airfare, but they paid for everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you're in Korea."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1099", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.690717019475642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very special. I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were going to pay for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they paid for, for, they didn't pay airfare, but they paid for everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you're in Korea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The week you were in Korea. And they made an effort to, a big effort to have you revisit your site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.679897554908199, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The week you were in Korea. And they made an effort to, a big effort to have you revisit your site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I very much wanted to do that. But because of personal circumstances of my working, my family, health circumstances, I was never able to leave, I was never able to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the last opportunity to do it was October of 2013. So that's an opportunity I missed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Sorry. But might you go back on your own sometime?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.7776513023558005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the last opportunity to do it was October of 2013. So that's an opportunity I missed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Sorry. But might you go back on your own sometime?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's always there in the back of my mind, and I think it's always been there in the back of my mind since the day we left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I. Korea has changed so much now. It went from a third world country to a first world country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And Peace Corps for that reason is no longer there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3085014470620004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's always there in the back of my mind, and I think it's always been there in the back of my mind since the day we left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I. Korea has changed so much now. It went from a third world country to a first world country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And Peace Corps for that reason is no longer there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And hasn't been there for over 30 years. So the country that I would go back to is not the country that I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true. That's true."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.5537054902000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And hasn't been there for over 30 years. So the country that I would go back to is not the country that I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true. That's true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No way, shape, or form."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm ambivalent about going back to a country that isn't the country that I left, because the country that I left is the country that I miss."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And that you loved."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.74531542, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm ambivalent about going back to a country that isn't the country that I left, because the country that I left is the country that I miss."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And that you loved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that I loved. And that country is now only existing in my 35 millimeter slides and in my mind's eye."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it doesn't exist anymore. And, and the globe has gotten very tiny. And communications can be instant across thousands of miles. So it's a, there would be no way to, to revisit what I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you maintained contact with people who were in your training group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.522200000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I have very close friends that I have kept up with for the last 45 years, including their families and, you know, I would count them among my best friends. These are people that I could call up and say I'm coming and they would have a place for me to sleep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Might be on the floor, just like in Korea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Their door is open."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Might be on the floor, just like in Korea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Their door is open."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But their door is open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if I needed anything, they would come. And a group of us, actually, about 13 of us, got together last, over Labor Day weekend, long Labor Day weekend, five or six days in 2013. Four or five couples. Two of us were divorced, so it was just the women, but, um. And we had a wonderful time in Wisconsin. The couple that was the host had a family cottage on a small freshwater lake in Wisconsin, in Minnesota. And we had a wonderful time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's great. And then there's Friends of Korea, and you're connected with them in some way."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But their door is open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if I needed anything, they would come. And a group of us, actually, about 13 of us, got together last, over Labor Day weekend, long Labor Day weekend, five or six days in 2013. Four or five couples. Two of us were divorced, so it was just the women, but, um. And we had a wonderful time in Wisconsin. The couple that was the host had a family cottage on a small freshwater lake in Wisconsin, in Minnesota. And we had a wonderful time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's great. And then there's Friends of Korea, and you're connected with them in some way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I, I'm, you know, I follow that website and I know a number of the people. And the Korean, this group of us are, uh, this, some subset of the group comes together around events, like one of the couples that we were close to very tragically had an adult son die under tragic circumstances last July. And, um. It's making me cry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry. Shall I turn this off? [tape break] Um, you were talking about the point of the tragedy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if I needed anything, they would come. And a group of us, actually, about 13 of us, got together last, over Labor Day weekend, long Labor Day weekend, five or six days in 2013. Four or five couples. Two of us were divorced, so it was just the women, but, um. And we had a wonderful time in Wisconsin. The couple that was the host had a family cottage on a small freshwater lake in Wisconsin, in Minnesota. And we had a wonderful time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's great. And then there's Friends of Korea, and you're connected with them in some way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I, I'm, you know, I follow that website and I know a number of the people. And the Korean, this group of us are, uh, this, some subset of the group comes together around events, like one of the couples that we were close to very tragically had an adult son die under tragic circumstances last July. And, um. It's making me cry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry. Shall I turn this off? [tape break] Um, you were talking about the point of the tragedy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The PCV family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I, I'm, you know, I follow that website and I know a number of the people. And the Korean, this group of us are, uh, this, some subset of the group comes together around events, like one of the couples that we were close to very tragically had an adult son die under tragic circumstances last July. And, um. It's making me cry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry. Shall I turn this off? [tape break] Um, you were talking about the point of the tragedy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The PCV family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The son of one of the couples that we were friends with all these years drowned tragically and, uh, in his early forties. And a lot of the couples and also single people who, who had been in this group who, who knew the family and had kept up with the family went to the visitation and the funeral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've become almost like family with one another, with these people who are your fellow Peace Corps volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00001:1139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The son of one of the couples that we were friends with all these years drowned tragically and, uh, in his early forties. And a lot of the couples and also single people who, who had been in this group who, who knew the family and had kept up with the family went to the visitation and the funeral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've become almost like family with one another, with these people who are your fellow Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very close. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they are like family. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you very much. It was a most interesting experience, one that's affected all of your life. Thank you very much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 54.88593457103794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m glad we finally fit it all together. I’d been looking for an opportunity when I’d be over here and wouldn’t be tied up during the day, so instead of coming over late in the day today I caught the first flight out. Yes, that was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. We can catch up. I thought we’d start by talking today about becoming chief of the Astronaut Office. How did that come about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That happened right after STS-47, which was my fourth mission, third time as mission commander. At that point, I was the most experienced pilot astronaut in the corps. One of the astronauts, or maybe even more than one, had told me even I guess right before STS-47, “Rumor has it you’re going to be the next chief.” I think it was Jim [James F.] Buchli that told me that. He was acting chief at the time because Dan [Daniel C.] Brandenstein had left. We had had a couple of successive acting chiefs, but not a permanent chief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I ask a question?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does that mean the chief of FCOD [Flight Crew Operations Directorate] selects you? This is not an open process? Or at the time it wasn’t?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 62.62933769227317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. The senior marine would do the Marine Corps ones and so on. The senior Air Force would do the Air Force ones. All I know is what was done with the Navy. If the Air Force did it differently and they did an in-person review, I don’t know about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was someone assigned to your office who specifically was over each military branch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the astronauts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be whichever of the astronauts was senior grade in the military. That’s the person who had the responsibility for that. I was never the senior naval officer. There were always naval officers who were older and more senior to me. I never had that particular job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ll have to ask Rhea [Seddon], because Rhea was a civil servant. I’m curious. How did you handle—you were chief of the Office. You also have a spouse who is in the Office."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 72.21359197115251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was already assigned to SLS-2, so I didn’t have any part in making that assignment. That launched the middle of ’93, and I got back from STS-47 in September. September 12 to 20 [1992] was that mission. I was probably assigned as chief by the end of September, and she had already been training on that mission for a couple years. I never did wind up assigning her to a mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to avoid that sticky mess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was okay. Oh, and one of the things that we’ll be coming to when we talk about the Mir docking, STS-71—immediately when I was named as chief astronaut SpaceNews wanted to do an interview with me. I remember they came to my office, and we did an interview. The question came up. They said, “Okay, the first Shuttle docking with Mir is coming up. Are you going to assign yourself to that mission?”\\n\\n I launched off into a speech that was, “No, absolutely not, that is not the job of a leader, to skim off the good deals for yourself. The job of a leader is to take care of your people and give them all the good deals. I will not assign myself to the Mir docking.” I was quite adamant about that. That plays into maybe starting to talk about STS-71."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did have some other questions for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, good, yes, I figured you probably had some things for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Loren [J.] Shriver was your deputy. Of course he was a classmate of yours from ’78. What was his responsibility and role in working with you as deputy?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 65.34123882289957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure, oh yes, we always did. We always had a party down at the Cape before launch, and then we always hosted a party here after the mission. To be honest, I think Rhea did all the legwork, because she was the one who had been doing that the most, so I think I showed up and enjoyed the party. She had done all the work, if I remember right. Got to give her all the credit in the world.\\n\\n I’m sure that I did not fly the weather plane for her launch, because I would need to be up there on the roof of the LCC [Launch Control Center] with the kids as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure I was not doing the weathership for that mission. Yes, it changed things a little bit. But that’s the only time that happened. It was basically two years, from the end of ’92 to about the end of ’94, that I was chief astronaut. You said you had a couple questions on it as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had a couple more. Were there any really memorable missions for you during that time? Any issues that you had to work as chief of the Astronaut Office? Either when crews were in orbit or getting ready to launch, landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were all spectacular, always."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wrote down the Hubble Space Telescope repair. I wasn’t sure what your involvement was as chief in that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.332088773383948, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, no pressure. And that’s funny you mention that, because Dan Goldin, the morning before we launched, we had a telecon with him. It might have been a video telecon. We might have actually had that in those days, video telecon. One of the last things he said as we were getting ready to say goodbye, he said, “Hoot, no pressure, but I want you to know there are going to be 5 billion people watching you on television.” So no pressure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a way to send you off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was our send-off. Fortunately we had trained very extensively, and fortunately the likes of Charlie Precourt and Greg Harbaugh just made all the difference in the world. I think we were 2 seconds off. Our parameter was 0.1 feet per second plus or minus 0.03. We actually wound up—0.107 feet per second was our contact velocity. Mission control had already determined that by the time we landed. We had used something like 24 percent less fuel than they had budgeted for it. All the training and the rules of thumb and the excellent crew really made a big difference, Charlie and Greg.\\n\\n We had a graph, so Charlie would be plotting our range against this graph. He’d say, “Okay, Hoot, you’re probably about 4 seconds fast right now,” or something to that effect. I don’t know how, I wasn’t supposed to keep that, but I got that. I should scan it and send you that just for fun, just in case you want it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I wound up with that graph. I think I told you my first two flights they let us keep all of our checklists and things that they weren’t going to reuse. Now after that they let us keep our notebook, just our little book that we had where we could make notes as we went, but nothing else. Somehow I think I wound up with a ground copy of the rendezvous checklist, which didn’t fly, so it’s not a flown checklist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe that’s why."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.97788737454808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I wound up with that graph. I think I told you my first two flights they let us keep all of our checklists and things that they weren’t going to reuse. Now after that they let us keep our notebook, just our little book that we had where we could make notes as we went, but nothing else. Somehow I think I wound up with a ground copy of the rendezvous checklist, which didn’t fly, so it’s not a flown checklist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe that’s why."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That actual chart, it was a cue card that Charlie was making x’s on as we were approaching. Somehow I wound up with that. I didn’t intentionally steal it from NASA, but somehow it’s in my stuff, I’m pretty sure. I don’t think it’s a copy, I think it’s the actual one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll scan that and send you what that looked like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be good to put with the interview."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 38.86431930505342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That actual chart, it was a cue card that Charlie was making x’s on as we were approaching. Somehow I wound up with that. I didn’t intentionally steal it from NASA, but somehow it’s in my stuff, I’m pretty sure. I don’t think it’s a copy, I think it’s the actual one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll scan that and send you what that looked like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be good to put with the interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It makes it really apparent. It shows where the holds are. You’ve got range versus time where you can actually plot it and see. So I’ve actually got that still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you would talk about that moment of official docking and then getting ready to go into the Mir. What are your memories of that? Were you planning to take that photo? We’ve got that great photo from ASTP with the commanders shaking hands."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 38.73813256117047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll scan that and send you what that looked like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be good to put with the interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It makes it really apparent. It shows where the holds are. You’ve got range versus time where you can actually plot it and see. So I’ve actually got that still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you would talk about that moment of official docking and then getting ready to go into the Mir. What are your memories of that? Were you planning to take that photo? We’ve got that great photo from ASTP with the commanders shaking hands."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. We knew. In fact PAO [Public Affairs Office] had talked to us. “Look, this is going to be something that is going to be memorable, and it’s going to be something we want to make sure we do it right.” The problem with the handshake in the tunnel there is that the people doing the handshaking block the whole view. We actually practiced I think over in the full fuselage trainer, over in the FFT. What I needed to make sure I did was get my back over against the side, so that I’m not in the middle blocking it. We actually had made sure we strategized it before we actually did it, to where we’d made sure that I was off to the side, so that we could see Vladimir [Dezhurov] as well.\\n\\n Did I send you that newspaper article where the president said that this ends the Cold War?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you haven’t, so you’ll have to send it to me for this one."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 43.042369512411625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It makes it really apparent. It shows where the holds are. You’ve got range versus time where you can actually plot it and see. So I’ve actually got that still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you would talk about that moment of official docking and then getting ready to go into the Mir. What are your memories of that? Were you planning to take that photo? We’ve got that great photo from ASTP with the commanders shaking hands."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. We knew. In fact PAO [Public Affairs Office] had talked to us. “Look, this is going to be something that is going to be memorable, and it’s going to be something we want to make sure we do it right.” The problem with the handshake in the tunnel there is that the people doing the handshaking block the whole view. We actually practiced I think over in the full fuselage trainer, over in the FFT. What I needed to make sure I did was get my back over against the side, so that I’m not in the middle blocking it. We actually had made sure we strategized it before we actually did it, to where we’d made sure that I was off to the side, so that we could see Vladimir [Dezhurov] as well.\\n\\n Did I send you that newspaper article where the president said that this ends the Cold War?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you haven’t, so you’ll have to send it to me for this one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve actually got it on my cell phone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, do you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 47.824855013790696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. We knew. In fact PAO [Public Affairs Office] had talked to us. “Look, this is going to be something that is going to be memorable, and it’s going to be something we want to make sure we do it right.” The problem with the handshake in the tunnel there is that the people doing the handshaking block the whole view. We actually practiced I think over in the full fuselage trainer, over in the FFT. What I needed to make sure I did was get my back over against the side, so that I’m not in the middle blocking it. We actually had made sure we strategized it before we actually did it, to where we’d made sure that I was off to the side, so that we could see Vladimir [Dezhurov] as well.\\n\\n Did I send you that newspaper article where the president said that this ends the Cold War?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you haven’t, so you’ll have to send it to me for this one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve actually got it on my cell phone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, do you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was hanging pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have been going through things, because you’ve been sending me stuff."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 53.13872779310077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve actually got it on my cell phone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, do you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was hanging pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have been going through things, because you’ve been sending me stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You might be able to stretch this and see it. This I just hung up in the stairway in the man cave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say, “Do I have my reading glasses?”"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 59.043030881223075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was hanging pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have been going through things, because you’ve been sending me stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You might be able to stretch this and see it. This I just hung up in the stairway in the man cave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say, “Do I have my reading glasses?”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "These are readers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it’s okay. That’s the nice thing about the iPhone."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 65.60336764580342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You might be able to stretch this and see it. This I just hung up in the stairway in the man cave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say, “Do I have my reading glasses?”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "These are readers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it’s okay. That’s the nice thing about the iPhone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you can stretch it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you can stretch it, which is nice."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 70.67040849533713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These are readers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it’s okay. That’s the nice thing about the iPhone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you can stretch it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you can stretch it, which is nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now Bill [William J.] Clinton didn’t say, “Well, Hoot ended the Cold War.” I’ve interpreted it that way. But that’s where it shows that Bill Clinton said—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "“Guess this really means the Cold War is over.”"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 77.41156499481903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you can stretch it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you can stretch it, which is nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now Bill [William J.] Clinton didn’t say, “Well, Hoot ended the Cold War.” I’ve interpreted it that way. But that’s where it shows that Bill Clinton said—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "“Guess this really means the Cold War is over.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the President of the United States said, “This handshake marks the end of the Cold War.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You look like you’re having a great time with that smile."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 35.96158403777037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did also want to ask. I don’t know—this might be a question better suited for Public Affairs—but I still thought it was interesting. Your crew was the guinea pig for using the web to promote the mission. PAO had created this website called On Board STS-71. Do you remember that? Like I said, this might be more of a Public Affairs [question]. It was a new way to promote the mission, that way people could follow along on the web and see how things were going. I was curious if you were included in all those decisions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think we were, because I don’t remember it offhand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wasn’t sure. I find little tidbits. So I always want to ask, because I think well, there could be an interesting story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, good for you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you think at this point that this was going to be your final mission? Had you and Rhea discussed [the issue]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6973568802000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, golly, yes. Sure did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We always like to end by asking folks what do you think was your biggest challenge while you worked here at NASA, if you had to pick one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you had to pick one. Oh my gosh, I don’t know if I can pick one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you can’t pick one you can list multiple."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s been lots and lots of them. I joke around about one of the biggest challenges was trying to learn Russian, because I are a engineer. Science and math and calculus, I’m good at that stuff, but [not] languages.\\n\\n I vividly remember coming in when I first got here, and I was a highly experienced jet fighter pilot and test pilot. I flew combat in Vietnam. I had all kinds of experience. I got here, and all of a sudden I don’t know anything. I don’t know how I get hydraulic power. It was on a jet engine, and the jet engine is spinning so it turns a pump. How do I get hydraulic power on a Shuttle? How do I do temperature control on a Shuttle? We were mostly air-cooled in jet fighters. I don’t know how we navigate. I don’t know how we communicate. Yes, we had radios. You key the mike.\\n\\n It was a huge challenge walking in the door having been a very experienced jet pilot, and all of a sudden you don’t know anything. Some of your self-esteem suffers a little bit when you’re sitting there saying, “Boy, I’m dumb. How am I ever going to learn all this?” I think from day one it was a huge challenge.\\n\\n As you went along the trainers were so good, and all the study materials and everything that we had to learn everything from made it flow so well, that all of a sudden you got to the end of a training cycle and said, “Yes, I’m ready to launch.” It’s a tribute to what we’ve put together here at the Space Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your greatest accomplishment, if you had to pick one? I know you were involved in so many."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9565938000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly all the missions went well. One of the things that I always would say to my crews when I was commander, when we would get formed up and we’d have our first meeting as a crew, was, “Okay, look, you guys, this is going to be challenging. Anybody can go do this and make it look difficult. We’re going to go make it look easy. It isn’t easy, but we’re going to make it look easy because we’re going to do it that well. We’re not going to whine about what the challenge is, we’re just going to go do it and make it look easy.”\\n\\n I think for the most part we did that on the missions that I was commander of. We didn’t whine about things, we didn’t complain that this is too hard, this is too difficult. “It is challenging, and it’s not easy. But you guys, we’re going to make this look easy.”\\n\\n The other thing I also would say is, “And at any point if we’re not having fun, we’re doing something wrong. This is the most exciting thing in the world that we’re getting to do. It ought to be fun, and if it isn’t fun we’re not doing it right.”\\n\\n I do feel though that one of my biggest achievements when I was chief astronaut—because I got feedback. I wasn’t looking for feedback, because my job is to support you guys, is what my job is. But one of my astronauts, who wasn’t really known for handing out compliments, said to me, “You were liked as chief.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice. That really is. One of the things that I appreciate when I talk to so many of the people that you work with is that everyone is so humble."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Astronauts are humble?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially the test pilots, especially the test pilots that I talk to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Test pilots are humble? Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes I don’t know where Tom Wolfe came up with that stereotype, but I’ve certainly not experienced it on my side of the table."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0628820000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Astronauts are humble?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially the test pilots, especially the test pilots that I talk to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Test pilots are humble? Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes I don’t know where Tom Wolfe came up with that stereotype, but I’ve certainly not experienced it on my side of the table."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was funny. Before I was coming here to interview, one of the other test pilots back at the flight test center—I said, “I understand I got to talk to a psychiatrist.”\\n\\n He said, “Okay, one of the things that you don’t ever do is you don’t ever fill in the words for a psychiatrist. If the psychiatrist is asking you, ‘Well, so would you say that test pilots are—’ ‘Arrogant?’ Don’t fill it in for them.” Humble? Shoot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s my perspective. Maybe somebody else would say something else."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1809800000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Test pilots are humble? Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes I don’t know where Tom Wolfe came up with that stereotype, but I’ve certainly not experienced it on my side of the table."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was funny. Before I was coming here to interview, one of the other test pilots back at the flight test center—I said, “I understand I got to talk to a psychiatrist.”\\n\\n He said, “Okay, one of the things that you don’t ever do is you don’t ever fill in the words for a psychiatrist. If the psychiatrist is asking you, ‘Well, so would you say that test pilots are—’ ‘Arrogant?’ Don’t fill it in for them.” Humble? Shoot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s my perspective. Maybe somebody else would say something else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s complimentary, so thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve enjoyed this. I don’t know if there’s other anecdotes you would like to talk about or other stories you’d like to share."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3122000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was funny. Before I was coming here to interview, one of the other test pilots back at the flight test center—I said, “I understand I got to talk to a psychiatrist.”\\n\\n He said, “Okay, one of the things that you don’t ever do is you don’t ever fill in the words for a psychiatrist. If the psychiatrist is asking you, ‘Well, so would you say that test pilots are—’ ‘Arrogant?’ Don’t fill it in for them.” Humble? Shoot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s my perspective. Maybe somebody else would say something else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s complimentary, so thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve enjoyed this. I don’t know if there’s other anecdotes you would like to talk about or other stories you’d like to share."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess they’re not kicking us out of this room, it looks like. Somebody started to open the door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think so. I saw somebody stick their head in, so I wasn’t sure. The secretary told me I had it for four hours. I blocked it first thing this morning."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4580000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s complimentary, so thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve enjoyed this. I don’t know if there’s other anecdotes you would like to talk about or other stories you’d like to share."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess they’re not kicking us out of this room, it looks like. Somebody started to open the door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think so. I saw somebody stick their head in, so I wasn’t sure. The secretary told me I had it for four hours. I blocked it first thing this morning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me think about it for a moment. Of course when we leave I’ll think of about a dozen of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you come back to Houston we can always do a follow-up."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess they’re not kicking us out of this room, it looks like. Somebody started to open the door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think so. I saw somebody stick their head in, so I wasn’t sure. The secretary told me I had it for four hours. I blocked it first thing this morning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me think about it for a moment. Of course when we leave I’ll think of about a dozen of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you come back to Houston we can always do a follow-up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We can do a follow-up, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely, we’re always open."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me think about it for a moment. Of course when we leave I’ll think of about a dozen of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you come back to Houston we can always do a follow-up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We can do a follow-up, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely, we’re always open."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We probably haven’t covered everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure that we haven’t. There’s probably a lot that you have knowledge of that I don’t. We have limited resources. The further we get into the Shuttle Program, the less documentation that we have. That’s why these interviews are so important and so vital, because we just don’t have those records."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We can do a follow-up, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely, we’re always open."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We probably haven’t covered everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure that we haven’t. There’s probably a lot that you have knowledge of that I don’t. We have limited resources. The further we get into the Shuttle Program, the less documentation that we have. That’s why these interviews are so important and so vital, because we just don’t have those records."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I wind up remembering things as we’re sitting here talking about it too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you do come back, like I said, our door is always open. Don’t feel like this is the last opportunity. We’d be happy to see you. If at some point you and Rhea want to do a joint interview, I think that might be fun."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We probably haven’t covered everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure that we haven’t. There’s probably a lot that you have knowledge of that I don’t. We have limited resources. The further we get into the Shuttle Program, the less documentation that we have. That’s why these interviews are so important and so vital, because we just don’t have those records."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I wind up remembering things as we’re sitting here talking about it too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you do come back, like I said, our door is always open. Don’t feel like this is the last opportunity. We’d be happy to see you. If at some point you and Rhea want to do a joint interview, I think that might be fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that’d be fun too. Yes, maybe one of these times when we’re back for reunions. They would schedule reunions about every two years. I think we missed—I don’t remember what our problem was. We might have been out of the country. She really likes cruise ships. We’re into these deals where we can go for free as speakers on a cruise ship.\\n\\n I’m always telling her, “No, not another cruise. I made three cruises in the Navy.” For a total of what, how much time, well over two years. “No, I don’t want to make another cruise.” She’d sign us up for two or three a year if I’d let her. We’ve been doing those. Although the virus saved me from one this year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There you go. No one wants to be on a cruise ship right now."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00226:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I wind up remembering things as we’re sitting here talking about it too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you do come back, like I said, our door is always open. Don’t feel like this is the last opportunity. We’d be happy to see you. If at some point you and Rhea want to do a joint interview, I think that might be fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that’d be fun too. Yes, maybe one of these times when we’re back for reunions. They would schedule reunions about every two years. I think we missed—I don’t remember what our problem was. We might have been out of the country. She really likes cruise ships. We’re into these deals where we can go for free as speakers on a cruise ship.\\n\\n I’m always telling her, “No, not another cruise. I made three cruises in the Navy.” For a total of what, how much time, well over two years. “No, I don’t want to make another cruise.” She’d sign us up for two or three a year if I’d let her. We’ve been doing those. Although the virus saved me from one this year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There you go. No one wants to be on a cruise ship right now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much for taking time, Hoot. I appreciate it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00445:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 86.98754456732121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So once it went, that was the last you saw it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Last I saw of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Moved on to your next project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went to the next project. One of the—I believe this story to be true, but I haven’t actually gone off and verified it—but I talked to you about putting all these decals in the spacecraft. Well, this was on Apollo 11, and my counterpart on Apollo 11 was Ray Dell’Osso. He was in the spacecraft, and when you’re in the spacecraft the displays and control panel is over you, and the lower equipment bay is by your feet. He’s supposedly laying in the seats writing on the display and control panel when his pen quits writing. [Demonstrates hand movement of shaking a pen.] He starts shaking his pen and dots appear all over the spacecraft. [Laughs] All over the displays and the control panel and the lower equipment bay. I think if you actually went and looked at the spacecraft, you’d probably be able to see some of those spots, but they did the best job they could to clean all the panel surfaces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Left his mark. [Laughs]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00445:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 9.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Right after it was over with, I got assigned to Apollo-Soyuz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of the people you started with—did you all pretty much stay on Skylab, or were people being moved around?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, from my group it was pretty much the same bunch of guys all the way through, including the Martin contractor team. We had about thirteen Martin guys that supported us, and almost every one of them, to the man, stayed all the way through the program. Now, some of the guys that supported us in the launch, prelaunch testing, went back to Denver and were actually working on the software program where we kept track of all the loose equipment and spares, and then some of them actually stayed in Houston and worked with us in Building 4 in our little cubicle. We had a mix in that particular arena, but as far as from when we started the Orbital Workshop testing and experiment development at the beginning of the program, almost to a man, I think those guys stayed with us all the way through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you’ve been kind enough to mention a couple of personal side notes, I thought I would ask—during the sixties was a pretty turbulent time for people of your age group and coming out of college. Were you aware of all the other issues that were going on in the midst of trying to get everything done for Apollo and then into Skylab?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Interestingly enough, really not. I think back a little bit about why. I don’t know whether it was growing up in a small town and not being exposed to what was going on out there, and after I got to work, whether it was the work was so intense that I just wasn’t paying that much attention to the news or reading newspapers, but, in all honesty, it was happening around me, and I was pretty much oblivious to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, from what you’ve told us, your schedules were pretty intense."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00334:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 37.613234000000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I did. When I really went into one, that's where we did most of the time, went to Goddard and learned the real-time system and kind of started writing procedures and launch abort mission rules and all that stuff that we had to do. But, see, we invented ourselves. There was a retrofire guy before me, but he didn't know more than I did. So we actually sat down and knew our position and created our positions and made sure that they would work with the other team. It's just like any other team. We'd all been on teams and we knew exactly what our responsibilities were and what our requirements were, and from that we put the team together. Of course, Kraft was the flight director and everybody would report directly to him. So that was a kind of easy thing to remember. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember anything else about any of the other early flight controllers from that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I knew them all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything you'd like to share about any of the people in particular?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Glynn [S.] Lunney and I were in—he was the Flight Dynamics Officer [FIDO] and I was the reentry guy. And before him was a guy named—a Canadian guy. Damn, what's his name? I'm sorry, I'll think about it. I just can't load my software quick enough. It's got bad time tags on it. [Laughter] But Carl Huss was the retrofire guy, and then they had—have you guys ran into the Canadians yet?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we have interviewed several of them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00334:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 29.57026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I knew them all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything you'd like to share about any of the people in particular?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Glynn [S.] Lunney and I were in—he was the Flight Dynamics Officer [FIDO] and I was the reentry guy. And before him was a guy named—a Canadian guy. Damn, what's his name? I'm sorry, I'll think about it. I just can't load my software quick enough. It's got bad time tags on it. [Laughter] But Carl Huss was the retrofire guy, and then they had—have you guys ran into the Canadians yet?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we have interviewed several of them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a really good group, neat bunch of guys. They came in from AVRO [Canada]. You know all about them. We had surprising a number of those with us. It was a lot more Canadians out of the Space Task Group than there was American citizens. For some reason they decided—I mean Flight Operations—I don't know how they got so many, but they were there. And they did a good job, too.\\n\\n Lunney had been out at the Barbados with John Hodge. He'd never been back at the Cape, and he came up. So he and I had the first job. That was our first job together, then Shepard’s flying, because they were breaking in these guys that had been there. By this time NASA really was expanding. This was before the Rice [University, Houston, Texas] talk. This was before Kennedy, when I got in. Then they really changed. I mean, when he did that, everything started expanding in hiring. The place in Houston got big and we really did need to bring in more flight controllers on, and that's what I spent a lot of my time doing, training flight dynamics people and billing systems, and it was a really neat job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of Kennedy's announcement at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00728:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 66.77583191309847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, our team is approximately 45 people, the majority United Space Alliance workers. I do have a handful of NASA support. I have a couple engineers, quality, and safety. So, as usual, how we always operate, you have a big conglomerate of the contractor and then a small group of the NASA folks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You guys had actually tried out the system, I think, last year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We did a dry run here, yes, at the Shuttle Landing Facility [SLF]. We did the same thing. Basically, to set up the wind restraint system you have four masts, and each mast has a winch and taglines. All those things have to be anchored into the concrete, and so we actually did that out at the SLF to ensure that we could secure them. Now that the system is all set up at Dulles, we proof-load it to make sure that everything’s going to hold. We also have to put a tie-down point for the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft [SCA] and that’s drilled into the concrete as well so that when we roll in the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft, we can hook up to the nose landing gear. The tie down points ensures that the SCA doesn’t move it all while we’re doing this operation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were just talking with one of the SCA guys who mentioned that you’ve got to tie that nose down. Otherwise you start to lift that plane up, which I thought was interesting. I hadn’t thought of it that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you’ll be landing then on Tuesday? You’re going to be in the Pathfinder?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00728:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 51.77542160827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. Actually, we were ready with Discovery earlier than we initially planned, and we went over to the Vehicle Assembly Building earlier than we had targeted. The main reason for doing that was to get out of the way so that Endeavour could get back into process. We had had Endeavour sitting over in the Vehicle Assembly Building waiting for her turn to get back in the Orbiter Processing Facility [OPF]. So the sooner we were finished with Discovery, the sooner we could get back started on Endeavour. It wasn’t because we were going to deliver Discovery any earlier. We had already set that date, and that wasn’t something we wanted to change, but it really did help to keep moving on Endeavour because with her in the VAB we were not doing work on Endeavour that we needed to do in the OPF."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take you to finish her and get her ready to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, I’d have to pull the schedule. You mean my total time for Discovery?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Total time in processing, let’s look at this. I don’t have my glasses on. Look, see, I’ve already flipped the page and Discovery’s on the second page now because she’s done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She’s done. She’s ready to go."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00728:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we deliver Atlantis, which is the mid-November timeframe, when we get it to the Visitors Complex, then my job is done. And I have to figure out what I’m going to do next. I have to figure that out before then, but, yes, that’s where my work with the Orbiters will end. Now, there could be something within the transition retirement efforts that are not Orbiter-related that I may be able to help with at that point in time. Our office doesn’t go away when the vehicles are done because there’s still facility work, equipment removal, and records disposal that isn’t yet complete. So there may be an area that I can help out with, or I may do something completely different.\\n\\n In fact, the conversation that I had with my supervisor when you were waiting was talking about, “You need to start thinking about what you’re going to do next. You’ve got to start answering some questions as to where you’re going to be.” Not really something I want to think about right now, but it’s not the first time he’s told me I have to start thinking about it, so I need to start doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to ask Rebecca if she’s got any questions for you.\n\nI do have one. You mentioned about going or having Discovery being processed once it’s inside of the hangar."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you will be involved with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long will that be?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00728:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you will be involved with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long will that be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re delivering on the 19th, we look to be out of there by the end of the month, so not too much work that has to be done. So the target right now is to be done by the 30th. That includes removing the tail cone and shipping it back to Kennedy since we have to use that tail cone again for Endeavour’s ferry, then repositioning the engine nozzles, because to put the tail cone on you have to tuck the nozzles. We’re going to flare those back out, because Smithsonian wants Discovery to look as if it had just landed. We will also reposition the vent doors and install the orbital maneuvering system nozzles. There are a handful of other things, but mainly just getting Discovery into the final display position, jack and leveling it, because we have to jack and level it to get the tail cone off and then put it back down on its landing gear when all the work is complete.\\n\\n There will be a small team that complete the hangar work. In fact, I won’t be there for much of that since I have to leave on the 23rd to go up to New York. My backup, Bart Pannullo will be there managing the work in the hangar and also the cleanup effort out on Apron W. So he’ll be managing those while I’m up at JFK, getting things set up and ready to go for the offload of Enterprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s the real question I wanted to ask, how are you going to be in two places at once."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00728:64", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long will that be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re delivering on the 19th, we look to be out of there by the end of the month, so not too much work that has to be done. So the target right now is to be done by the 30th. That includes removing the tail cone and shipping it back to Kennedy since we have to use that tail cone again for Endeavour’s ferry, then repositioning the engine nozzles, because to put the tail cone on you have to tuck the nozzles. We’re going to flare those back out, because Smithsonian wants Discovery to look as if it had just landed. We will also reposition the vent doors and install the orbital maneuvering system nozzles. There are a handful of other things, but mainly just getting Discovery into the final display position, jack and leveling it, because we have to jack and level it to get the tail cone off and then put it back down on its landing gear when all the work is complete.\\n\\n There will be a small team that complete the hangar work. In fact, I won’t be there for much of that since I have to leave on the 23rd to go up to New York. My backup, Bart Pannullo will be there managing the work in the hangar and also the cleanup effort out on Apron W. So he’ll be managing those while I’m up at JFK, getting things set up and ready to go for the offload of Enterprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s the real question I wanted to ask, how are you going to be in two places at once."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have very capable help, which is good. I get the fun work of setting up, delivering, and offloading. Bart gets to be there for offload, the final orbiter work, and the site cleanup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a good plan."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00728:66", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re delivering on the 19th, we look to be out of there by the end of the month, so not too much work that has to be done. So the target right now is to be done by the 30th. That includes removing the tail cone and shipping it back to Kennedy since we have to use that tail cone again for Endeavour’s ferry, then repositioning the engine nozzles, because to put the tail cone on you have to tuck the nozzles. We’re going to flare those back out, because Smithsonian wants Discovery to look as if it had just landed. We will also reposition the vent doors and install the orbital maneuvering system nozzles. There are a handful of other things, but mainly just getting Discovery into the final display position, jack and leveling it, because we have to jack and level it to get the tail cone off and then put it back down on its landing gear when all the work is complete.\\n\\n There will be a small team that complete the hangar work. In fact, I won’t be there for much of that since I have to leave on the 23rd to go up to New York. My backup, Bart Pannullo will be there managing the work in the hangar and also the cleanup effort out on Apron W. So he’ll be managing those while I’m up at JFK, getting things set up and ready to go for the offload of Enterprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s the real question I wanted to ask, how are you going to be in two places at once."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have very capable help, which is good. I get the fun work of setting up, delivering, and offloading. Bart gets to be there for offload, the final orbiter work, and the site cleanup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a good plan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think that that’s it for us, and I think that we did it in less than 45 minutes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00728:68", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have very capable help, which is good. I get the fun work of setting up, delivering, and offloading. Bart gets to be there for offload, the final orbiter work, and the site cleanup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a good plan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think that that’s it for us, and I think that we did it in less than 45 minutes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, great. Well, good. Thank you very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thanks for filling in all those blanks."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00596:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 62.37928191678926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was interesting. I went into McDonnell as a stress engineer, and I worked my way up to chief stress engineer after I was there twelve years—well, I did it after ten, but twelve years after we were [unclear] again, '57, and our chief engineer thought that there was going to be something to this whole thing, so he moved me from that job into advanced design, where they did airplanes, and now they were going to take on space, too, as their space chief designer. So that's how I got into the space business, and that was in '57.\\n\\n All through '58—this is before NASA was born. They were born, really, mid-'58. But we were going around the country looking for people to do something about this, and we talked to guys like Max [Maxime A.] Faget, Chris [Christopher C.] Kraft [Jr.], and those guys before they were NASA and before we were bidding on anything. I don't know how we won it. I've heard stories that Grumman really wanted it and the Navy didn't want them to waste their time on that. Anyhow, that was how it got started.\\n\\n I stayed in space, then, for another twenty years or so after that with the Mercury, Gemini, a little bit on Skylab, not all that much, and the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were working in this special group before NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a matter of fact, the first thing we worked on was Dyna-Soar [Project]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really, the Air Force project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Air Force had an idea on Dyna-Soar. We worked on that and made a proposal, which didn't win, and I'm glad, because it never amounted to anything, and a lot of people wasted a lot of time and weren't, therefore, as competitive in the Mercury thing because they'd been working on it. But we lost it fast enough to get back into the right thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you think when you heard about Sputnik?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00596:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 44.79101318197405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Why in the hell did they do a thing like that? Well, you know, our president, the McDonnell president at the time was Dave [David S.] Lewis. He later became chairman. He called me in and said, \"Well, I'd like you to go down to Florida for six months or so and be launch manager.\"\\n\\n I said, \"Dave, I don't have any experience like this.\"\\n\\n He says, \"Nobody else has got experience in flying these things.\" [Laughter]\\n\\n So I went down for six months and stayed four years. I remember arguing with the IRS guy after a year. He said, \"You can't have this per diem, ten dollars a day, any longer than six months.\" I said, \"Well, the company keeps changing its mind.\" So we revealed some number, but it wasn't as much as it should have been. He thought it was too much.\\n\\n So that's what I did, and it was a new ball game. Nobody could say it wasn't. All the flight business was new, how you launched them, what kind of mission control you had, what Kennedy did versus what [Lyndon B.] Johnson did, and the whole ball of wax."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were launch manager for the Mercury Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For McDonnell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For McDonnell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA was the boss, and they had their guys as chief [unclear], our guys are supplying most of the answers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what you basically supervised was a lot of the check-out for the launch?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00596:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 46.434459091082275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For McDonnell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For McDonnell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA was the boss, and they had their guys as chief [unclear], our guys are supplying most of the answers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what you basically supervised was a lot of the check-out for the launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one of the biggest things that we did at the Cape was rebuild spacecraft. There are all sorts of changes come through all the time, and we have to incorporate them at the Cape. So that took a lot of our time. The rest of it was in helping NASA plan the flight plan and the countdowns and writing the procedures for doing that for NASA and that sort of thing and contributing the people to do it. We always had somebody over there who was the number-two guy, the NASA launch—what did they call it? [Unclear]. But basically they had the responsibility, and, of course, they did the whole thing, and they did a lot of the—well, in the Cape they didn't do as much as they did at Johnson [Space Center]. Johnson did all the software and all that stuff and all the overall systems stuff. Of course, we had some people helping there, too. We had a big bunch, maybe a thousand people at Johnson at the time doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when McDonnell got the Gemini contract, you were moved to the position of Gemini technical director?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00596:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 51.593843434535856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA was the boss, and they had their guys as chief [unclear], our guys are supplying most of the answers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what you basically supervised was a lot of the check-out for the launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one of the biggest things that we did at the Cape was rebuild spacecraft. There are all sorts of changes come through all the time, and we have to incorporate them at the Cape. So that took a lot of our time. The rest of it was in helping NASA plan the flight plan and the countdowns and writing the procedures for doing that for NASA and that sort of thing and contributing the people to do it. We always had somebody over there who was the number-two guy, the NASA launch—what did they call it? [Unclear]. But basically they had the responsibility, and, of course, they did the whole thing, and they did a lot of the—well, in the Cape they didn't do as much as they did at Johnson [Space Center]. Johnson did all the software and all that stuff and all the overall systems stuff. Of course, we had some people helping there, too. We had a big bunch, maybe a thousand people at Johnson at the time doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when McDonnell got the Gemini contract, you were moved to the position of Gemini technical director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That wasn't at the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was after?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00596:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.63551423400001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, our people—it wasn't very obvious that there was a big problem there. The people who knew the astronauts all felt pretty bad about it. I know I went to see Gus's widow, and Pat [White, Ed White’s widow] …"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another astronaut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "White. Ed [Edward H.] White [II]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ed White's the one, and Gus—who was the other guy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Roger [B.] Chaffee."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00596:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.03946026000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "White. Ed [Edward H.] White [II]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ed White's the one, and Gus—who was the other guy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Roger [B.] Chaffee."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I didn't know Roger very well. I'm sure the people down at the Cape who knew those people. Our people at the factory didn't come into as intimate contact with them. They'd come out every six months for reviews or something like that. But everybody felt pretty bad. I don't know that anybody else went to the funny farm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was pretty traumatic for the industry as a whole."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00596:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.71051140000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ed White's the one, and Gus—who was the other guy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Roger [B.] Chaffee."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I didn't know Roger very well. I'm sure the people down at the Cape who knew those people. Our people at the factory didn't come into as intimate contact with them. They'd come out every six months for reviews or something like that. But everybody felt pretty bad. I don't know that anybody else went to the funny farm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was pretty traumatic for the industry as a whole."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it had some impact on that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00596:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.67834600000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I didn't know Roger very well. I'm sure the people down at the Cape who knew those people. Our people at the factory didn't come into as intimate contact with them. They'd come out every six months for reviews or something like that. But everybody felt pretty bad. I don't know that anybody else went to the funny farm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was pretty traumatic for the industry as a whole."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it had some impact on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So was the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I'm sure, industry-wide, it probably had a similar impact."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00596:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.97594000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it had some impact on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So was the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I'm sure, industry-wide, it probably had a similar impact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n killed more people. It was far more cost than the Apollo they lost, but it was not the first time it happened. I mean, Apollo was the first. It was the first time in flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So McDonnell wasn't active in Apollo, but then they did some work in Skylab, and you were the—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00596:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 33.3066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So was the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I'm sure, industry-wide, it probably had a similar impact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n killed more people. It was far more cost than the Apollo they lost, but it was not the first time it happened. I mean, Apollo was the first. It was the first time in flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So McDonnell wasn't active in Apollo, but then they did some work in Skylab, and you were the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Skylab was sort of an ad hoc, \"what could we work out\" deal, a temporary space station. Our cousins on the West Coast sold their S-IVB upper stage, modified would be the tank, and we sold Gemini equipment. We rearranged that airlock, and so we had a big piece of the tube. Martin was doing another piece of it. The only thing I really had much to do with was, I went to Houston and sold them on some of the ideas we had, but I didn't stay with them much.\\n\\n At that time, we were working on the Shuttle activity. I'm trying to get the time straight here. Skylab was—well, I guess it was before that. They had some missiles, and I had to [unclear] and things like that, you know, but it didn't take too much work. We had a few problems with it, but there weren't any major problems. The most major problem was on launch of Skylab were we had a wing came out and we lost the wing and the other one's cocked or some such thing. The guy that had done the project engineering work on that was a good friend of mine and a very capable guy. Press [Brooks] was the guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If we take kind of a step back and look at Mercury through Skylab and look at the relationships between McDonnell and what eventually became McDonnell-Douglas and NASA, what was that relationship like between those, and how did it maybe change across the programs as the programs changed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00161:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.062364966089998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were it was like block schedule. Right. So I would have like the third graders Monday and Wednesday, for example."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any one day then what, three to five classes or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. I'd be in school from like eight to 12. And that was the first block of the school was divided in. There were too many students to have all the all the grades all at once, so on. So Christina, who taught third grade in sixth grade, she had her classes in the afternoons from one to three. Tamara, who had all the other grades taught in the morning. So eight to 12. So I had like a lunch break between 12 and one, basically. But usually I would I would stay school that whole time. We weren't really required. We it was really up to us how much we wanted to teach. Our program director, um, she told us our Peace Corps program director told us to do maybe like ten hours a week to start. Right. So you're not overworking yourself. But I found that if I wasn't really doing anything, I was just going to stay, you know, in my apartment or whatever. So I liked to be at school and to be working with the kids. There were some days, for example, when they did testing, there is really no need for me to be there. Um, so I would. And they would do I mean, they tested a lot. I felt like so I would not go to classes during the testing periods and I would hang out with my host family. So usually I was at school from like eight to three. And later I took on clubs, which I would do either during that lunch break, twelve to one or after school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of clubs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I taught I did English language clubs, actually my partner and I did them together so we would do one English club, for example, for third through fifth grade. We would do them at her school. Her school was recently renovated. So it was really nice. And so my kids would go to her school and we would host clubs there together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you worked on more than one school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00161:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.780697488999998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I taught I did English language clubs, actually my partner and I did them together so we would do one English club, for example, for third through fifth grade. We would do them at her school. Her school was recently renovated. So it was really nice. And so my kids would go to her school and we would host clubs there together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you worked on more than one school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I only worked at one school, but my wife, she taught in the second school. There were two schools in the village. And, yeah, we did clubs. We started with clubs at her school. But eventually I started doing some of we started defining some of the clubs because there were too many students or there weren't enough students like the third graders, didn't want their parents, didn't want them walking all the way to the second school. So I started just doing my third graders at my school and the younger kids, they loved clubs, they loved coming clubs, the older kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do in the club?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We it was really getting them to talk and we played like English playing games. So, I'm trying to think of some of the activities we did like one of them that we would do as the kids would get in. There would be like two circles, one circle facing our one circle facing in. And they would have to talk about a topic for like a minute. And then after a minute, the inner circle would rotate. And so you'd have like a different conversation partner. We play board games. We played, we had a spelling bee. We played off all kinds of things, especially with the younger kids, and they loved it. And I think they really just like hanging out with us. The older kids, it was harder to get them to come to clubs. So we would only really get there really dedicated students who wanted to really learn the English, that really wanted to learn English, and we would do readings with them. But again, mostly just conversation, because that's what was missing from the classroom, is they weren't doing enough talking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the role of your own language evolve or play into what you were doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00645:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. I like to brag that our team, we’re the tip of the spear, top of the rocket. We led the way. I like to brag about that. We did lead the way on this. Because we had already been through the fires on pad abort, it was easier for us to get to that place than the rest of the vehicle team. Frankly Mark Geyer used us as an example on many occasions of how he would like to see the overall team working. I believe they’ve gotten there today. I think on the crew vehicle side they had already carved off several systems and said NASA is doing this and they’re going to provide it as GFE [Government Furnished Equipment] so that those teams really just kept focusing on what they were doing and continued to do that. But in other areas, like in the structures area for instance, I see the NASA and the contractor teams working well together.\\n\\n It’s interesting. We weren’t really the tip of the spear on this. The systems analysis folks, the folks that were doing the trajectory simulations, the flight dynamics, and building the aerodynamic databases, they already had been working as a badgeless team prior to that change. So they had already worked out a lot of those issues and were working well together. I wouldn’t say that we invented the way to do it. We looked closely at what they had done, and that allowed us to optimize and move forward."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just really have one more question. I know you mentioned some of the challenges that you had, but what do you feel is your most significant contribution?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Me personally, I believe that I did rally the team to coalesce and focus on the challenges that were in front of them and be successful. I don’t like to brag about myself, but I do believe that I enabled that through my leadership."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you’d like to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, ma’am, I can’t believe I talked for a whole hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little over an hour actually. I appreciate you taking time out today, and I hope we didn’t run over too long into your schedule."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 41.220844385408384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As you mentioned, initially I started off as the Operations and Training IPT lead, and basically for all the mission preparation and execution aspects of implementing the NASA-Mir Research Program. Since that time, though, for about the last six months, I've also been the co-chair, in the sense that we have a Russian counterpart, so the co-chair for the MOIWG, which is the Mir Operations Integration Working Group, and that's been roughly since January of this year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your previous role, and what helped you prepare to take on the role you have now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Having done the operations and training aspects of it roughly the last six to nine months of this program, I've been involved primarily in the training and operations aspects itself, so it was a natural fit to take over the other duties, the other duties within our working group that I had not been doing before such as hardware processing and preparation, but that was very low level, and the contractor's in a good position to pick up that job and basically we provide some direction and oversight on the NASA side.\\n\\n Prior to this program, I had been involved in some Space Station and some Spacelab efforts, which we believe gave us a good foundation to start off going into Phase One."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first real job in the Shuttle-Mir Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first job I had was kind of, I guess you would call it, for Mir-18, which was Dr. [Norman] Thagard's flight. Didn't really have a title. It was kind of like an operations point of contact, just with regards to preparing the timelines and procedures and ground support teams to support Dr. Thagard in Moscow. Then once the mission got started, it kind of evolved into a NASA operations lead over there. So I did about two or three tours over in Moscow during Mir-18."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a natural flow for you, or was there lots of changes and challenges from your previous role in taking on this -"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 43.57871598378709, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Having done the operations and training aspects of it roughly the last six to nine months of this program, I've been involved primarily in the training and operations aspects itself, so it was a natural fit to take over the other duties, the other duties within our working group that I had not been doing before such as hardware processing and preparation, but that was very low level, and the contractor's in a good position to pick up that job and basically we provide some direction and oversight on the NASA side.\\n\\n Prior to this program, I had been involved in some Space Station and some Spacelab efforts, which we believe gave us a good foundation to start off going into Phase One."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first real job in the Shuttle-Mir Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first job I had was kind of, I guess you would call it, for Mir-18, which was Dr. [Norman] Thagard's flight. Didn't really have a title. It was kind of like an operations point of contact, just with regards to preparing the timelines and procedures and ground support teams to support Dr. Thagard in Moscow. Then once the mission got started, it kind of evolved into a NASA operations lead over there. So I did about two or three tours over in Moscow during Mir-18."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a natural flow for you, or was there lots of changes and challenges from your previous role in taking on this -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a natural progression. It was an evolution in the sense of what I had been doing before, because prior to that time on the Space Station programs, I was kind of an operations point of contact for those efforts. So it was a natural fit. It was a challenge in the sense of this was something we, NASA, had not done before in long-duration flights and working with the Russians, in particular. So it was a challenge in a good sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you give us some examples of some of the challenges that you had to meet?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.46615223906853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I first started going over in April of '94, so each time we went over we were preparing computers, understanding how their process works. Like I said, a normal day in the life of the things that would be required of us with the Russian side. So I was over there about three or four times in '94 setting these things up. We took a couple of trips to Europe to talk to European counterparts about how they did things, that kind of thing.\\n\\n In '95, once he launched, I was going about every other month. Basically at that time it was basically to support the mission. Shortly after that time, we were told we were also going to take responsibility for what's called the Phase One-B aspects, so, NASA 2 through NASA 7. At that time it was only NASA 5 aspects. We were going over there starting to put the ground work in place just for the follow-on flights. So it was kind of a little bit of both. I would work actually from a flight support standpoint for three to four weeks, then I'd usually tack on a couple of weeks to finish the planning for the follow-on efforts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your experiences like in Russia? Was that your first time to go, associated with this program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Very good. I've enjoyed working with them very much. No real negative. It's a big world, you know, so just a lot of different people and different attitudes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was your stay there each time? Would it vary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied. The longest stay I ever had, I think, was about six or seven weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you planning to go back soon?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.8512802656317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Very good. I've enjoyed working with them very much. No real negative. It's a big world, you know, so just a lot of different people and different attitudes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was your stay there each time? Would it vary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied. The longest stay I ever had, I think, was about six or seven weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you planning to go back soon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm going the tenth of June, in about two or three weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that part of the close-up?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 24.27920029514633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied. The longest stay I ever had, I think, was about six or seven weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you planning to go back soon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm going the tenth of June, in about two or three weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that part of the close-up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we'll be closing some things down, also kind of doing a final push in preparation for the final few months of this flight with the cosmonauts, and then we're returning, I think, roughly mid-August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We still have experiments?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.199111439051478, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm going the tenth of June, in about two or three weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that part of the close-up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we'll be closing some things down, also kind of doing a final push in preparation for the final few months of this flight with the cosmonauts, and then we're returning, I think, roughly mid-August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We still have experiments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, about three or four experiments will be continuing on after the American crew member leaves on STS-91. They'll be docking, I think, around the eighth or ninth of June, so our plan is to get there shortly after that. Then we've got about two months. I won't be staying there two months, but the team will be in place about another two months there. A lot of the things we'll be turning over to the station guys, because they're also establishing a base over there, not in the same physical location, but in the same building. So a lot of our computers and some other things will be turned over to them either in June or in August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your duties and roles as far as the science areas are concerned?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 21.33234604339053, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we'll be closing some things down, also kind of doing a final push in preparation for the final few months of this flight with the cosmonauts, and then we're returning, I think, roughly mid-August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We still have experiments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, about three or four experiments will be continuing on after the American crew member leaves on STS-91. They'll be docking, I think, around the eighth or ninth of June, so our plan is to get there shortly after that. Then we've got about two months. I won't be staying there two months, but the team will be in place about another two months there. A lot of the things we'll be turning over to the station guys, because they're also establishing a base over there, not in the same physical location, but in the same building. So a lot of our computers and some other things will be turned over to them either in June or in August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your duties and roles as far as the science areas are concerned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With regards to the science, the way it's structured within Phase One is you have basically one group, one organization responsible for managing the science requirements, and then it's our responsibility to actually go off and do feasibility assessments on the requirements and form those into some kind of implementation plan on each increment, and then also establish and process some systems across all increments so you have a way of doing business. As far as the science, strictly speaking, our responsibility lies on doing evaluations and feasibility assessments on that. Not everything that's agreed to that, yes, it's a definite requirement can be implemented, of course, so you decide, well, do you carry this thing below the line if there's an experiment of opportunity that comes up, that you can move it back over, move it above the line, rather? Or do you just roll this over to another increment, to another mission?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the course of Phase One, was there one increment more challenging than the other regarding the science aspect?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.956326845588366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. So we've probably gone down every avenue. We didn't have a lot of backup systems because of our budget. We couldn't have a lot of contingency plans in place, but the ones we did seem to have worked, and a lot of times we had to be very dynamic and very creative coming up with a solution. Rather than spending three or four months going off and analyzing them, we had to come up with an answer usually within weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That had to be very challenging, to come up with a real-time system in real time, without any planning to do any -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Basically you want to make sure you've got the process in place to address the issue, even though you've never seen the issue before. At least you have the right people in place. You have the right processes to deal with the issue. In some cases we've been kind of fortunate because with regards to payloads, the success criteria is a little different than you would, say, a vehicle system. So there's a difference between mission criticality and mission success. So we're fortunate in that. But, of course, the budget reflected that you're only working payloads, not systems. So we've had to tack on some things later in the life of the program, like getting additional engineers to develop timelines and following the actual Mir vehicle subsystems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in preparing the crew for the experiments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not directly, but I oversaw it. I didn't directly sit down with the crew and explain how this experiment will operate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like a lot of what you did was making sure everything was in place for other people to take care of."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.062585383987074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Basically you want to make sure you've got the process in place to address the issue, even though you've never seen the issue before. At least you have the right people in place. You have the right processes to deal with the issue. In some cases we've been kind of fortunate because with regards to payloads, the success criteria is a little different than you would, say, a vehicle system. So there's a difference between mission criticality and mission success. So we're fortunate in that. But, of course, the budget reflected that you're only working payloads, not systems. So we've had to tack on some things later in the life of the program, like getting additional engineers to develop timelines and following the actual Mir vehicle subsystems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in preparing the crew for the experiments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not directly, but I oversaw it. I didn't directly sit down with the crew and explain how this experiment will operate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like a lot of what you did was making sure everything was in place for other people to take care of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Basically we had to manage and we had to make sure the process was in place, that this is the way we're going to do business and this is what people are accountable for and these are the records we're going to keep and this is how we're going to track it so we have some idea of metrics and we have some feedback mechanism to follow this stuff through, so we know what improvements need to be made and how to prepare for the debriefs with the crew members post flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we talked last time, we talked about how everything was prepared for the missions and the increments. What happens when everything would come back? You've got one coming, you've got one going. Could you explain some of the processes that took place for the exchanges?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.55068602473183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me put it this way: the way Phase One ended, the scope and the objectives of Phase One roughly, say, in the last six months [unclear], is different than what it started out to be. So there's been some, I would say, change in direction, but some mission creep in what it was responsible to do, what it set out to do. I'm not saying that's necessarily something wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just you're measuring the success of which criteria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think given the original criteria we set for ourselves, yes, I think it was successful. Given what we've ended up with, I would say, yes, it's successful, given that those tasks were added on either after certain events or late in the flow. And they're not diametrically opposed necessarily, but there is some slant there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just grew and grew."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.27854002747981, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just you're measuring the success of which criteria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think given the original criteria we set for ourselves, yes, I think it was successful. Given what we've ended up with, I would say, yes, it's successful, given that those tasks were added on either after certain events or late in the flow. And they're not diametrically opposed necessarily, but there is some slant there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just grew and grew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just grew into something else. So you can try to go back and say [unclear] we're changing the scope and direction of this program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The point that you were able to meet those expectations as they continued to grow is a success in itself, that the team was able to rise to the occasion over and over again to meet the changing scope."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.198377808310898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think given the original criteria we set for ourselves, yes, I think it was successful. Given what we've ended up with, I would say, yes, it's successful, given that those tasks were added on either after certain events or late in the flow. And they're not diametrically opposed necessarily, but there is some slant there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just grew and grew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just grew into something else. So you can try to go back and say [unclear] we're changing the scope and direction of this program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The point that you were able to meet those expectations as they continued to grow is a success in itself, that the team was able to rise to the occasion over and over again to meet the changing scope."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You could probably say that. Even though some people griped about these additional tasks coming on and not necessarily additional bodies or budgets, I think there was this [unclear], \"We'll just throw another couple of million on it and we'll take care of these other jobs.\" Well, that's fine, but you don't find these people just off the street. It took us a little while to prepare these people, to train them. We can't just grab somebody out of school, or we can't just grab somebody, extra bodies from the Shuttle side to do this job necessarily, because there's a learning curve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess when you were mentioning about trying to find people to train, the jobs were so many, you weren't just training people for payload."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.33153089812322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just grew into something else. So you can try to go back and say [unclear] we're changing the scope and direction of this program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The point that you were able to meet those expectations as they continued to grow is a success in itself, that the team was able to rise to the occasion over and over again to meet the changing scope."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You could probably say that. Even though some people griped about these additional tasks coming on and not necessarily additional bodies or budgets, I think there was this [unclear], \"We'll just throw another couple of million on it and we'll take care of these other jobs.\" Well, that's fine, but you don't find these people just off the street. It took us a little while to prepare these people, to train them. We can't just grab somebody out of school, or we can't just grab somebody, extra bodies from the Shuttle side to do this job necessarily, because there's a learning curve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess when you were mentioning about trying to find people to train, the jobs were so many, you weren't just training people for payload."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were training for all these different areas, is that correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.479478775692467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You could probably say that. Even though some people griped about these additional tasks coming on and not necessarily additional bodies or budgets, I think there was this [unclear], \"We'll just throw another couple of million on it and we'll take care of these other jobs.\" Well, that's fine, but you don't find these people just off the street. It took us a little while to prepare these people, to train them. We can't just grab somebody out of school, or we can't just grab somebody, extra bodies from the Shuttle side to do this job necessarily, because there's a learning curve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess when you were mentioning about trying to find people to train, the jobs were so many, you weren't just training people for payload."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were training for all these different areas, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because a lot of our training up front, the training that the crew member went through was somewhat, from a payload standpoint, from our responsibilities, was Mir in terms of on the ground, in terms of what we did for the flight controllers. So a lot of them would actually go to some of the crew training sessions so they could observe the crew interactions, so they understood what the issue would be two or three months down the line. We had the same investigators when they would come to test their hardware, to train the crew. They'd also stay over extra days to train our people. Question-and-answers-type sessions also, and bring the hardware. We tried to pattern it very similar so they were all on the same page."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over the years that you've spent, is there a high point that you feel for yourself as well as for the program that you've contributed for?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.866087528547187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were training for all these different areas, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because a lot of our training up front, the training that the crew member went through was somewhat, from a payload standpoint, from our responsibilities, was Mir in terms of on the ground, in terms of what we did for the flight controllers. So a lot of them would actually go to some of the crew training sessions so they could observe the crew interactions, so they understood what the issue would be two or three months down the line. We had the same investigators when they would come to test their hardware, to train the crew. They'd also stay over extra days to train our people. Question-and-answers-type sessions also, and bring the hardware. We tried to pattern it very similar so they were all on the same page."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over the years that you've spent, is there a high point that you feel for yourself as well as for the program that you've contributed for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it depends how you establish priorities. I think from a professional aspect, as we mentioned briefly, it's being able to address and to meet certain challenges that have come up in a timely fashion and how you handle those things, and seeing the process work, if you will. I think from a personal aspect, I think it's more just working with people, and working with people of different cultures in that sense. So that's somewhat independent of the job at hand, necessarily; could have been anything. Could have been building a water-treatment plant somewhere or something like that. That would be more on a personal nature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were able to visit with the Europeans as well. Can you tell us about those experiences, going over there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.7713961259052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It depends on the nature. If they were detailed questions about a payload operation or something like that, usually I would just have to take notes. It depends on the situation. In some cases I was kind of thrown into it as a stopgap to cover some stuff. So I'd say about 60, 70 percent of the questions I could answer, depending on what he had. That was both for Thagard and for Blaha, because we also had to go over there for Blaha for some time. Because I had a lot of things to cover, it was hard to get in-depth knowledge on any one particular area. So usually we had the team there. Most of the crew members actually prefer talking to a different variety of people, so basically what we did is we would put different people on the [console as Cap] Com, some of the other engineers and science support people. They like the variety, talking to different people. We just want to make sure whoever is on there is knowledgeable and they can conduct themselves to be somewhat expedient in a ten-minute pass. Sometimes the crew members just wanted to chitchat about different things. It worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can certainly understand that. I can't imagine that, but I can understand that they'd like to hear different voices."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And there's a ham radio capability on board the Mir, so they use that a lot from a diversionary standpoint."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in making sure all that worked well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Actually, that's being done out of the Medical Operations Group. I don't know if you've got something scheduled with those guys, but they can give you more detail about some of that. Al Holland is actually the guy who's doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll ask him. What do you see now for yourself or for the Shuttle-Mir Program in your involvement? Will you spend the next three or four months helping to close things down?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.301551251005774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And there's a ham radio capability on board the Mir, so they use that a lot from a diversionary standpoint."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in making sure all that worked well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Actually, that's being done out of the Medical Operations Group. I don't know if you've got something scheduled with those guys, but they can give you more detail about some of that. Al Holland is actually the guy who's doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll ask him. What do you see now for yourself or for the Shuttle-Mir Program in your involvement? Will you spend the next three or four months helping to close things down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As I mentioned, the real-time operations aspect is going on through August. Shortly after that we have some baseline data collection, which will be done on the cosmonauts in September out of Moscow, so we have some hardware that has to be out there to support that. Then it will be returned. So once that comes back here, we have to disposition that hardware, close some of the final reports out, some of the things. So, roughly by September-October, even though the rest of the Phase One is essentially over shortly after 91, ours will go roughly through September-October, closing some things out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure you'll be busy up until the last very minute, if there is a last very minute."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.890612501117527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Actually, that's being done out of the Medical Operations Group. I don't know if you've got something scheduled with those guys, but they can give you more detail about some of that. Al Holland is actually the guy who's doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll ask him. What do you see now for yourself or for the Shuttle-Mir Program in your involvement? Will you spend the next three or four months helping to close things down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As I mentioned, the real-time operations aspect is going on through August. Shortly after that we have some baseline data collection, which will be done on the cosmonauts in September out of Moscow, so we have some hardware that has to be out there to support that. Then it will be returned. So once that comes back here, we have to disposition that hardware, close some of the final reports out, some of the things. So, roughly by September-October, even though the rest of the Phase One is essentially over shortly after 91, ours will go roughly through September-October, closing some things out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure you'll be busy up until the last very minute, if there is a last very minute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. That's true. I think it will come to a graceful halt, but I don't think it will be abrupt. I can see now the workload diminishing some. It's not to say problems don't keep up, but the things that would consume you day after day, eight, ten hours a day, are kind of dwindling away and now it's a little more -I'd consider it just clerical kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you adapting to the slower pace after all these years?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.322902779019474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As I mentioned, the real-time operations aspect is going on through August. Shortly after that we have some baseline data collection, which will be done on the cosmonauts in September out of Moscow, so we have some hardware that has to be out there to support that. Then it will be returned. So once that comes back here, we have to disposition that hardware, close some of the final reports out, some of the things. So, roughly by September-October, even though the rest of the Phase One is essentially over shortly after 91, ours will go roughly through September-October, closing some things out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure you'll be busy up until the last very minute, if there is a last very minute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. That's true. I think it will come to a graceful halt, but I don't think it will be abrupt. I can see now the workload diminishing some. It's not to say problems don't keep up, but the things that would consume you day after day, eight, ten hours a day, are kind of dwindling away and now it's a little more -I'd consider it just clerical kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you adapting to the slower pace after all these years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes and no, because I'm not used to not having to work fifty hours a week, so it's like -what do they say in Chicago? If the winds stop, people would fall down. I mean, that's kind of what you feel like, because we're not used to -a couple of guys who have left, they said, \"I'm not used to sitting around and wondering where I'm going to go for lunch today.\" We're used to catching lunch when we can a lot of times, you know, from seven to six very easily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a heck of a diet plan."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.692114198910526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. That's true. I think it will come to a graceful halt, but I don't think it will be abrupt. I can see now the workload diminishing some. It's not to say problems don't keep up, but the things that would consume you day after day, eight, ten hours a day, are kind of dwindling away and now it's a little more -I'd consider it just clerical kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you adapting to the slower pace after all these years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes and no, because I'm not used to not having to work fifty hours a week, so it's like -what do they say in Chicago? If the winds stop, people would fall down. I mean, that's kind of what you feel like, because we're not used to -a couple of guys who have left, they said, \"I'm not used to sitting around and wondering where I'm going to go for lunch today.\" We're used to catching lunch when we can a lot of times, you know, from seven to six very easily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a heck of a diet plan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. That's true. And also the responsibility. Because it's a small group, especially on the Civil Service side, I think we've been given a lot of responsibility and authority within a very small group. I don't think you'll find that in too many other projects. I know you won't find that in Station. So I think some of the people who have gone over there have been a little bit frustrated: \"I'm used to doing all this and having this authority and getting all this stuff done, and I come over here and I'm responsible for this little box.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess flexibility is real important in Mir as well as real-time decision-making."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.213460221011694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes and no, because I'm not used to not having to work fifty hours a week, so it's like -what do they say in Chicago? If the winds stop, people would fall down. I mean, that's kind of what you feel like, because we're not used to -a couple of guys who have left, they said, \"I'm not used to sitting around and wondering where I'm going to go for lunch today.\" We're used to catching lunch when we can a lot of times, you know, from seven to six very easily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a heck of a diet plan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. That's true. And also the responsibility. Because it's a small group, especially on the Civil Service side, I think we've been given a lot of responsibility and authority within a very small group. I don't think you'll find that in too many other projects. I know you won't find that in Station. So I think some of the people who have gone over there have been a little bit frustrated: \"I'm used to doing all this and having this authority and getting all this stuff done, and I come over here and I'm responsible for this little box.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess flexibility is real important in Mir as well as real-time decision-making."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And very early on, I think anyone who couldn't do that we had to kind of leave behind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That expression \"hit the ground running\" just hasn't stopped yet."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.903844690012992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. That's true. And also the responsibility. Because it's a small group, especially on the Civil Service side, I think we've been given a lot of responsibility and authority within a very small group. I don't think you'll find that in too many other projects. I know you won't find that in Station. So I think some of the people who have gone over there have been a little bit frustrated: \"I'm used to doing all this and having this authority and getting all this stuff done, and I come over here and I'm responsible for this little box.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess flexibility is real important in Mir as well as real-time decision-making."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And very early on, I think anyone who couldn't do that we had to kind of leave behind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That expression \"hit the ground running\" just hasn't stopped yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. That's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least now you're to a jog."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.782049655569992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And very early on, I think anyone who couldn't do that we had to kind of leave behind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That expression \"hit the ground running\" just hasn't stopped yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. That's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least now you're to a jog."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter] Yes. Yes, that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Get up and go again. That's all that I have. I was going to ask Mark or Carol if they have anything that they'd like to ask you, if that's okay."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 20.868944061744436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. That's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least now you're to a jog."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter] Yes. Yes, that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Get up and go again. That's all that I have. I was going to ask Mark or Carol if they have anything that they'd like to ask you, if that's okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have some questions?\n\nI wanted to ask you what you miss the most when you spent the time over in Russia and went back to the States. That's a question we've asked some of the different folks."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:104", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.450581824830959, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was it. You just looked at it as an experience, as an experience. I think it would have been a little bit different if you'd gone for two years. I think maybe the guys who had been over there longer, the ops leads who had been there for four or five months, they probably had a little different perspective on that. Some of the people from the embassy go there for two years' time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any problems adjusting because you were there for whatever point of time and then you came back? I'm sure you did hit the ground running right back when you got here. There wasn't any time for rest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the only problem was more physical in a sense, because the climate there was dry, especially during the winter. Your skin starts flaking and stuff like that. Then if you come back here, especially in the fall, in October, if you go there in October, it's fairly cool, you come back here, it's still humid. So you come back and it's -"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kinda? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're carrying coats and gloves and stuff like that, and you're gasping for breath when you get back here, it's so thick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's not going to go away, that we know for sure."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:106", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.833979805367731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the only problem was more physical in a sense, because the climate there was dry, especially during the winter. Your skin starts flaking and stuff like that. Then if you come back here, especially in the fall, in October, if you go there in October, it's fairly cool, you come back here, it's still humid. So you come back and it's -"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kinda? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're carrying coats and gloves and stuff like that, and you're gasping for breath when you get back here, it's so thick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's not going to go away, that we know for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That's what I told the guys, \"Gee, you're missing all this wonderful weather here with the smoke and the haze and the heat.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "\"Welcome to the Gulf coast. We didn't know we'd have to add to the list.\""}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:108", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.259977561519701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're carrying coats and gloves and stuff like that, and you're gasping for breath when you get back here, it's so thick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's not going to go away, that we know for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That's what I told the guys, \"Gee, you're missing all this wonderful weather here with the smoke and the haze and the heat.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "\"Welcome to the Gulf coast. We didn't know we'd have to add to the list.\""}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, [unclear] to go to Russia. In this case, you'd miss some horrible weather in the last month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's true. You have more?\n\nI have a follow-on to that. I think you and Rebecca touched on it a little bit. Do you feel like you were a traveling salesman living out of a suitcase?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:110", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.177752846133002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That's what I told the guys, \"Gee, you're missing all this wonderful weather here with the smoke and the haze and the heat.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "\"Welcome to the Gulf coast. We didn't know we'd have to add to the list.\""}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, [unclear] to go to Russia. In this case, you'd miss some horrible weather in the last month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's true. You have more?\n\nI have a follow-on to that. I think you and Rebecca touched on it a little bit. Do you feel like you were a traveling salesman living out of a suitcase?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes, yes. Actually, you just unpack the dirty clothes, because especially in like '95, when I was going like every other month, when you're gone for five, six weeks at a time, you don't really unpack everything, so you've got everything there and you kind of figure out what works, what doesn't work, what shoes not to take, that kind of stuff. It's hard, because the first time you've been there, and when you haven't been there in a certain month, you don't really know what the weather's like and how it's changed. So you're not sure what do I need to bring. Especially in the wintertime with sweaters. You almost double just the volume of stuff you need to take, because you need to bring more undershirts and sweaters and things like that. But I think as it is now, although with all the trips I've been there in every month, I kind of know what to expect. The thing is, it's really expensive over there, so you don't want to buy anything over there, if you forgot like a sweater or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at least when you're traveling here, if you forget your toothbrush, you can go find a local store and buy it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:112", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.197503162370001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, [unclear] to go to Russia. In this case, you'd miss some horrible weather in the last month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's true. You have more?\n\nI have a follow-on to that. I think you and Rebecca touched on it a little bit. Do you feel like you were a traveling salesman living out of a suitcase?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes, yes. Actually, you just unpack the dirty clothes, because especially in like '95, when I was going like every other month, when you're gone for five, six weeks at a time, you don't really unpack everything, so you've got everything there and you kind of figure out what works, what doesn't work, what shoes not to take, that kind of stuff. It's hard, because the first time you've been there, and when you haven't been there in a certain month, you don't really know what the weather's like and how it's changed. So you're not sure what do I need to bring. Especially in the wintertime with sweaters. You almost double just the volume of stuff you need to take, because you need to bring more undershirts and sweaters and things like that. But I think as it is now, although with all the trips I've been there in every month, I kind of know what to expect. The thing is, it's really expensive over there, so you don't want to buy anything over there, if you forgot like a sweater or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at least when you're traveling here, if you forget your toothbrush, you can go find a local store and buy it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I guess there, that was a -"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.330559069300001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes, yes. Actually, you just unpack the dirty clothes, because especially in like '95, when I was going like every other month, when you're gone for five, six weeks at a time, you don't really unpack everything, so you've got everything there and you kind of figure out what works, what doesn't work, what shoes not to take, that kind of stuff. It's hard, because the first time you've been there, and when you haven't been there in a certain month, you don't really know what the weather's like and how it's changed. So you're not sure what do I need to bring. Especially in the wintertime with sweaters. You almost double just the volume of stuff you need to take, because you need to bring more undershirts and sweaters and things like that. But I think as it is now, although with all the trips I've been there in every month, I kind of know what to expect. The thing is, it's really expensive over there, so you don't want to buy anything over there, if you forgot like a sweater or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at least when you're traveling here, if you forget your toothbrush, you can go find a local store and buy it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I guess there, that was a -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when we first went, it was really hard, but now you can find a lot of what you'd call the luxury items. They're fairly convenient and they're reasonably priced. It's not outrageous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've watched the country change as well as you've watched the program change."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.589510077000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I guess there, that was a -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when we first went, it was really hard, but now you can find a lot of what you'd call the luxury items. They're fairly convenient and they're reasonably priced. It's not outrageous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've watched the country change as well as you've watched the program change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and you kind of wonder, though, because you see the average person on the street, and for us it's not a big deal to buy average things off the shelves, because it's in line with our prices over here, but you wonder if the average person can afford these kinds of things. There's a lot of markets, there's a lot of stores. Someone can afford it. There's obviously a demand somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The people that you worked with in Russia, were they what you would consider the average people on the street?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.98834453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when we first went, it was really hard, but now you can find a lot of what you'd call the luxury items. They're fairly convenient and they're reasonably priced. It's not outrageous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've watched the country change as well as you've watched the program change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and you kind of wonder, though, because you see the average person on the street, and for us it's not a big deal to buy average things off the shelves, because it's in line with our prices over here, but you wonder if the average person can afford these kinds of things. There's a lot of markets, there's a lot of stores. Someone can afford it. There's obviously a demand somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The people that you worked with in Russia, were they what you would consider the average people on the street?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say so, yes. They're not paid very well. They may be more receptive and open to us, but I have not seen any change in their economic status. If anything, it's the opposite. We've seen some people let go, for whatever reason, because the money isn't there in the government and so on.\\n\\n No one we've worked with very, very closely, but they're not there anymore. So you kind of wonder what keeps them going, what's in it for them. Usually, though, it's the older guys, because, to them, having worked through all their early space programs, some of those guys, their first job out of school, out of technical school, in the industry was like the times that we were being born. So there's a large generation gap in that sense. I guess to them this is a natural closure, part of their career as it's winding down, working together on something like this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you see a progression within the Russia folks that you've worked with, different ages, or are they very old and your age? Is there a long line of people?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:130", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in the sense that you always wish you had six months. It's like in school. \"Gee, I wish I had started this paper a week earlier,\" or something like that. You always think, \"If I had an extra two months, I could have done a better job on this,\" or, \"I could have done that.\" All things considered, I think we did a decent job for what we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From what we've learned from all the people that we've talked to so far, and I'm sure we'll hear it confirmed again, is that it was a great group of people that worked together to get a lot done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think so. I think a lot of people kind of bit their tongue and pulled together to pull it off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You should be very proud of what you've done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it needed to be done, so -"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mark, any more?\n\nI've already said I only had one more question."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00775:132", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 9.33, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think so. I think a lot of people kind of bit their tongue and pulled together to pull it off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You should be very proud of what you've done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it needed to be done, so -"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mark, any more?\n\nI've already said I only had one more question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'll splice that part out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you ever able to go into a Russian apartment of the people you work with?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00878:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.48322503346123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Sean was the one that picked them. I think he tried to make a group that was representative of the leadership of the Agency, and really concentrated it on people that had significant field experience. The main criteria were to keep it people that were, to a large extent, leaders in the field. While I was from [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, DC] at the time, I had spent a lot of time at Goddard.\\n\\n I think he wanted it to be a product of people that were recognizable, that we had experience that was worth sharing, and that it might be respected in the end. I think that he had his doubts going into it whether or not there were specific enough characteristics to define what the problem was that people were talking about that was part of the culture of NASA. That was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long of a process was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It strikes me it was six months or so, I think. We were all pretty much full-time for that period. We had a support team that was made up of a mixture of NASA folks as well as contractors. The contractor helped mostly in terms of organizing and producing the report, and keeping us on task. But yes, it strikes me it was about six months, and we met fairly often and traveled around the whole Agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went to the different Centers, who were you talking to at those Centers, and what was the reception?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We talked to both the leadership team at the Centers, as well as town hall meetings at every Center. So we talked to everyone at the Centers that wanted to talk to us. Then we had separate sessions for anybody that had something that they wanted to say, but didn’t feel comfortable talking about it in a group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they fairly receptive to talking to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00878:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.092472259401365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It strikes me it was six months or so, I think. We were all pretty much full-time for that period. We had a support team that was made up of a mixture of NASA folks as well as contractors. The contractor helped mostly in terms of organizing and producing the report, and keeping us on task. But yes, it strikes me it was about six months, and we met fairly often and traveled around the whole Agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went to the different Centers, who were you talking to at those Centers, and what was the reception?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We talked to both the leadership team at the Centers, as well as town hall meetings at every Center. So we talked to everyone at the Centers that wanted to talk to us. Then we had separate sessions for anybody that had something that they wanted to say, but didn’t feel comfortable talking about it in a group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they fairly receptive to talking to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think especially the employees. I shouldn’t say “especially the employees,” because I think everyone was receptive to it. It was pretty widely accepted that the Administrator wanted this done, and I think everybody was supportive of doing it. I didn’t find any place where there was any particular reluctance to have the discussion.\\n\\n Some of the general sessions were pretty wide open in terms of people’s experiences. That’s where we encountered the feeling among many of the people that the rituals that NASA had, that we thought were processes that disciplined decision-making, were actually inhibiting dialogue in some instances. Because people were sometimes reluctant to have discussions in a large meeting that might, in some instances, be considered career-threatening. So it was quite a good experience, and I thought it was well-received."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they were willing to open up if they felt like it wasn’t something that was going to reflect back on their career?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00878:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.88052473266818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We talked to both the leadership team at the Centers, as well as town hall meetings at every Center. So we talked to everyone at the Centers that wanted to talk to us. Then we had separate sessions for anybody that had something that they wanted to say, but didn’t feel comfortable talking about it in a group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they fairly receptive to talking to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think especially the employees. I shouldn’t say “especially the employees,” because I think everyone was receptive to it. It was pretty widely accepted that the Administrator wanted this done, and I think everybody was supportive of doing it. I didn’t find any place where there was any particular reluctance to have the discussion.\\n\\n Some of the general sessions were pretty wide open in terms of people’s experiences. That’s where we encountered the feeling among many of the people that the rituals that NASA had, that we thought were processes that disciplined decision-making, were actually inhibiting dialogue in some instances. Because people were sometimes reluctant to have discussions in a large meeting that might, in some instances, be considered career-threatening. So it was quite a good experience, and I thought it was well-received."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they were willing to open up if they felt like it wasn’t something that was going to reflect back on their career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Everyone recognized there wasn’t going to be any attribution, and so yes, everybody was really wide-open, frankly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any surprises when you were going to the different Centers, or anything that surprised you about any of the information that you were gathering to put this report together?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00878:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.867249702964646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think especially the employees. I shouldn’t say “especially the employees,” because I think everyone was receptive to it. It was pretty widely accepted that the Administrator wanted this done, and I think everybody was supportive of doing it. I didn’t find any place where there was any particular reluctance to have the discussion.\\n\\n Some of the general sessions were pretty wide open in terms of people’s experiences. That’s where we encountered the feeling among many of the people that the rituals that NASA had, that we thought were processes that disciplined decision-making, were actually inhibiting dialogue in some instances. Because people were sometimes reluctant to have discussions in a large meeting that might, in some instances, be considered career-threatening. So it was quite a good experience, and I thought it was well-received."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they were willing to open up if they felt like it wasn’t something that was going to reflect back on their career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Everyone recognized there wasn’t going to be any attribution, and so yes, everybody was really wide-open, frankly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any surprises when you were going to the different Centers, or anything that surprised you about any of the information that you were gathering to put this report together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To some degree, I was surprised at how widespread the feeling was that there were issues in the way we conducted business, and that they were more widely felt than just locally. I was surprised that the characteristics that we found were as widespread as they were across the Agency. So I guess that was my biggest surprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though the Centers focused on different things, they had the same overall worries?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00878:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.07472189218294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Everyone recognized there wasn’t going to be any attribution, and so yes, everybody was really wide-open, frankly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any surprises when you were going to the different Centers, or anything that surprised you about any of the information that you were gathering to put this report together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To some degree, I was surprised at how widespread the feeling was that there were issues in the way we conducted business, and that they were more widely felt than just locally. I was surprised that the characteristics that we found were as widespread as they were across the Agency. So I guess that was my biggest surprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though the Centers focused on different things, they had the same overall worries?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I talked about it the last time—at the beginning in the Agency’s history, we were beneficiaries of technology advances, people looked forward to working with NASA on new technologies. And then later, it wasn’t so much that they avoided working with NASA, but they didn’t care as much. If you wanted their product that would be fine, but if you didn’t that would be fine, too.\\n\\n One of the things I think that led to was some feelings at times that things weren’t going to be as reproducible and predictable as we had always hoped they would be. To some degree, I think that led to some people assuming that sometimes things happen, and you need to move on. That was something that we saw pretty widespread in the Agency, and had made a contribution to some of the major issues that we encountered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the report was released, how was it released? Did you have to go to each Center and then talk about the report with each Center? Or was it something that was just released from Headquarters?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00878:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.527468769092152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To some degree, I was surprised at how widespread the feeling was that there were issues in the way we conducted business, and that they were more widely felt than just locally. I was surprised that the characteristics that we found were as widespread as they were across the Agency. So I guess that was my biggest surprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though the Centers focused on different things, they had the same overall worries?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I talked about it the last time—at the beginning in the Agency’s history, we were beneficiaries of technology advances, people looked forward to working with NASA on new technologies. And then later, it wasn’t so much that they avoided working with NASA, but they didn’t care as much. If you wanted their product that would be fine, but if you didn’t that would be fine, too.\\n\\n One of the things I think that led to was some feelings at times that things weren’t going to be as reproducible and predictable as we had always hoped they would be. To some degree, I think that led to some people assuming that sometimes things happen, and you need to move on. That was something that we saw pretty widespread in the Agency, and had made a contribution to some of the major issues that we encountered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the report was released, how was it released? Did you have to go to each Center and then talk about the report with each Center? Or was it something that was just released from Headquarters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s an interesting question. I don’t actually remember how the report was released. I don’t think that the rollout had us going back to each of the Centers, but I don’t remember. I can’t say that I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were already at NASA Headquarters again at this point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00878:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.252743076769057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I talked about it the last time—at the beginning in the Agency’s history, we were beneficiaries of technology advances, people looked forward to working with NASA on new technologies. And then later, it wasn’t so much that they avoided working with NASA, but they didn’t care as much. If you wanted their product that would be fine, but if you didn’t that would be fine, too.\\n\\n One of the things I think that led to was some feelings at times that things weren’t going to be as reproducible and predictable as we had always hoped they would be. To some degree, I think that led to some people assuming that sometimes things happen, and you need to move on. That was something that we saw pretty widespread in the Agency, and had made a contribution to some of the major issues that we encountered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the report was released, how was it released? Did you have to go to each Center and then talk about the report with each Center? Or was it something that was just released from Headquarters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s an interesting question. I don’t actually remember how the report was released. I don’t think that the rollout had us going back to each of the Centers, but I don’t remember. I can’t say that I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were already at NASA Headquarters again at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that point, yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went back to NASA Headquarters in August 2004, you actually traded places with Ed [Edward J.] Weiler [Associate Administrator for the Science Mission Directorate]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00878:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 30.28082564085451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s an interesting question. I don’t actually remember how the report was released. I don’t think that the rollout had us going back to each of the Centers, but I don’t remember. I can’t say that I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were already at NASA Headquarters again at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that point, yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went back to NASA Headquarters in August 2004, you actually traded places with Ed [Edward J.] Weiler [Associate Administrator for the Science Mission Directorate]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s just talk about that transition—how that came about, and how you traded places."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00878:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.834162980391714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sounds pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It did. That’s why it struck me. I thought, “Well, that’s an interesting way of putting it.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s a little bit more diplomatic than I might have remembered saying it, but okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s what the Astrogram said that you said. They quoted you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe I would have said that, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like something you would say, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00878:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 26.48240331154635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s a little bit more diplomatic than I might have remembered saying it, but okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s what the Astrogram said that you said. They quoted you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe I would have said that, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like something you would say, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned during that time you had been dealing with that full-cost accounting and management change with Sean O’Keefe. Do you want to talk about that for a little bit, what that was like, dealing with that change?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00878:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.17010106926741, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, or what the real cost of a project was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All those hidden costs, things you don’t account for."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about money, over the years you were here, you dealt with budgets as a Center Director and Associate Administrator. Let’s talk about that for a while. I thought it was interesting when we talked last time about Galileo [mission to Jupiter], and you said that the team gave you a framed sign to remind you your job was to get the money."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Missions are expensive, and somebody’s got to get buy-in. Other people have described it as a sales job. You have to go out to sell people and tell them, “These things are going to be wonderful.” Well, why are they going to be wonderful when it’s something that’s almost abstract for a lot of people, especially the exoplanets and all the different things that not everyone can get their head around? Talk about that, trying to get money for science."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00547:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.76685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’s something like that. Frank is still around. I’ll probably see him this afternoon. Hiram Baxter, who’s been here for 41 years, is leaving. Today is his last day. He’s a USA employee. Probably see a lot of those guys out at the Gilruth [Center] this afternoon myself, because they come out of the woodwork sometimes for those going away parties. Frank would probably be good. He’s a history buff anyway. He came to work in NASA I think right out of school. He was at the Cape for a number of years as a young kid when they did a lot of stuff down there. I’m sure he could elaborate and probably give you all kinds of insight on this facility, because like I said he hired me back in ’81, and he was my boss for a number of years, and then he left, went one direction, I went another. Then we rendezvoused, and I worked for him again. I still give tours to his folks and to him. I see him all the time around here. He’d probably be the best source, I’d say. I know he’s in the local area still working here. Some of the other ones may be in the local area, but they’re probably on the golf course or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Enjoying their retirement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not only that, but he loves to talk to you about stuff here, so you won’t have a hard time getting an audience with him. Let’s see. I gave you the brochures, the pamphlet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One thing I was thinking is do you have anything specific maybe about the simulators. Is there a manual maybe or a history?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s funny, because a lot of that stuff, as we’ve gone to the electronic age, people throw those things away now for electronic [files]. Actually what I did, I showed this to somebody. Somebody was here the other day from one of the historical societies. I think I dug this out of the garbage can maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no, makes our heart break."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00547:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.2965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not only that, but he loves to talk to you about stuff here, so you won’t have a hard time getting an audience with him. Let’s see. I gave you the brochures, the pamphlet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One thing I was thinking is do you have anything specific maybe about the simulators. Is there a manual maybe or a history?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s funny, because a lot of that stuff, as we’ve gone to the electronic age, people throw those things away now for electronic [files]. Actually what I did, I showed this to somebody. Somebody was here the other day from one of the historical societies. I think I dug this out of the garbage can maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no, makes our heart break."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is just some stuff. You’d have to almost go through here and see if you could see what it is. But I have it, it’s like ’82. The motion base crew station operating. Aft seat. See, here’s the Link logo, a division of Singer. See, that’s back when they were here. Where’s the date? I’m missing the date here—’80. So this is probably good stuff. Yes, drawings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Drawings would be fantastic."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00547:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 17.65, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is just some stuff. You’d have to almost go through here and see if you could see what it is. But I have it, it’s like ’82. The motion base crew station operating. Aft seat. See, here’s the Link logo, a division of Singer. See, that’s back when they were here. Where’s the date? I’m missing the date here—’80. So this is probably good stuff. Yes, drawings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Drawings would be fantastic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, see. That’s ’76."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The schematics."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There you go. See, that’s back in the days when people actually wrote and used paper. I wow people with stuff like this. They say, “Oh my gosh, where’d you get that, oh, my!” Again I think I just inherited it somehow or another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you allow us at some point to borrow it to scan it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00427:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 22, "return_to_go": 62.101939416517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, it was continuous; it never stopped. Carl always had one more thing he wanted, so you never got finished. There were so many options, because you had so many mission objectives to try to achieve and a limited number of missions, so the focus really was on developing as much of a knowledge base as you could of how you were going to deal with the off-nominal cases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand in ’67 you started working for the Contingency Analysis Section."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s probably—to be honest, I’ve kind of forgotten the titles. I mean, I can relate what I was doing. Sixty-seven. I don’t know. Through that whole period there were organizational changes that went on, but I don’t remember exactly all the details of what was going on. Most of my career, for working on Apollo, was working for Carl Huss, and as he became a branch chief, then I had Clay [Claiborne R.] Hicks as a section head, and there was a lot of organizational changes that were going on, so I don’t remember that as anything significant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were working with Clay Hicks, what sort of work were you doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the same. Same kind of stuff. I spent a little over eighteen years in the Mission Planning and Analysis Division. I joked, because it was on the third floor of Building 30, and I joked that I had gone around the building three times, with offices mov[ing] me, and I concluded after eighteen years I didn’t want to go around again. I needed to look for something new to do.\\n\\n But basically I worked for Clay in those kinds of jobs up until—well, let’s see. Somewhere around ’67 would have been when I became a mission manager. Did you find anything on that in there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We did. What were some of your duties as a mission manager?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00395:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 57.41223255708301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really thought that it might benefit from a reorganization, but I could never force myself to address the way we budgeted. In particular, we had an Exploration Division and an ISS Division. Those divisions got their money, still do get their money—a significant amount of their money—from the programs they support. There were advantages to doing that. So if we did a reorg, I was always concerned that we would then lose the leverage with the programs to get the funding that we needed to provide their support. That was another reason I thought it was probably time to turn over the reins, to let someone come in and address that challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned budget. One of the things that happened while you were in that position was a sequestration, and then also there was a cut in 2013, 2014 midyear, where NASA had to take a pretty large cut to its budget. I wondered what impact that had on Safety."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot. I don’t think it had a big impact on the organization. Did it have a big impact on safety as a state of human spaceflight? It always does. Quantifying it, or even describing it is very, very difficult, because people go and they do as much work as they can. It’s less that questions or issues aren’t addressed. The thing is that there are issues that are never identified.\\n\\n You may have answered all the questions that you saw, but there are questions that you never hear. When I say questions, that’s a surrogate for issues or problems. You solve the problems of which you’re aware. The danger is there must be problems of which you’re unaware."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can see that being a major issue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s the unknown unknowns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That get you. Would you talk about your staff for Safety, your deputy, and some of the people who worked for you and their contributions?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00395:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.629504334457113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think mostly it was blessing the recommendations that came out from either the ISS chief S&MA officer or the ISS Division. [Organizational code] NE, the ISS Division and the ISS Program—in particular the ISS Safety and Risk Management Office, [code] OE—that was a very mature relationship, so really there were just very few issues related to risk management or risk acceptance that required me to make decisions about a particular recommendation or not.\\n\\n Good news is I knew how to spell ISS. It was always funny to have some safety engineer come in to brief, like before a flight readiness review or before a safety and mission success review, who maybe did not realize I’d been an ISS crew member and that I really did know a lot about ISS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oops."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was never bad, but it could be humorous. They’d be talking about something and I might ask, “Who installed that?”\\n\\n “Oh, I don’t know.”\\n\\n “You know what Expedition it was installed in? Do you know what Shuttle mission that antenna was installed on?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get a chance to go over as head of S&MA to Russia again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing like that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00395:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.810560371619015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was never bad, but it could be humorous. They’d be talking about something and I might ask, “Who installed that?”\\n\\n “Oh, I don’t know.”\\n\\n “You know what Expedition it was installed in? Do you know what Shuttle mission that antenna was installed on?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get a chance to go over as head of S&MA to Russia again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was interesting because the interface with the Russians was through the ISS Program. That was really the ISS Safety and Risk Management Office owned that interaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Orion had a big launch, the EFT [Exploration Flight Test]-1. Were you involved in those events or moments?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00395:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.122844857354462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was interesting because the interface with the Russians was through the ISS Program. That was really the ISS Safety and Risk Management Office owned that interaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Orion had a big launch, the EFT [Exploration Flight Test]-1. Were you involved in those events or moments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We would do the normal risk reviews and flight readiness review-type things but that really was—I guess comes down to a Lockheed Martin contracted event. And not having crew members on it, the requirements were significantly different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wasn’t sure about that, if you’d had a chance to go down there and see the launch."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00395:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.692049841504957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was interesting because the interface with the Russians was through the ISS Program. That was really the ISS Safety and Risk Management Office owned that interaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Orion had a big launch, the EFT [Exploration Flight Test]-1. Were you involved in those events or moments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We would do the normal risk reviews and flight readiness review-type things but that really was—I guess comes down to a Lockheed Martin contracted event. And not having crew members on it, the requirements were significantly different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wasn’t sure about that, if you’d had a chance to go down there and see the launch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I remember correctly, we were down there for some kind of meeting and then the launch got delayed or something, so I wasn’t there when the launch actually happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a couple of things that obviously were part of Safety. I wrote down a couple things that I remember since we’ve been here. One I wanted to get you to talk about was bringing the History Office [onboard]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00395:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.435610935005506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We would do the normal risk reviews and flight readiness review-type things but that really was—I guess comes down to a Lockheed Martin contracted event. And not having crew members on it, the requirements were significantly different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wasn’t sure about that, if you’d had a chance to go down there and see the launch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I remember correctly, we were down there for some kind of meeting and then the launch got delayed or something, so I wasn’t there when the launch actually happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a couple of things that obviously were part of Safety. I wrote down a couple things that I remember since we’ve been here. One I wanted to get you to talk about was bringing the History Office [onboard]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was another one of those really neat opportunities. I’m trying to remember who—was Trish the deputy when we did that, or was Vincent still the deputy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first time we came up to interview Trish was here, but I want to say it was maybe nine months after we had started. Trying to remember when we did that first interview."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00395:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 29.372901038895005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I remember correctly, we were down there for some kind of meeting and then the launch got delayed or something, so I wasn’t there when the launch actually happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a couple of things that obviously were part of Safety. I wrote down a couple things that I remember since we’ve been here. One I wanted to get you to talk about was bringing the History Office [onboard]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was another one of those really neat opportunities. I’m trying to remember who—was Trish the deputy when we did that, or was Vincent still the deputy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first time we came up to interview Trish was here, but I want to say it was maybe nine months after we had started. Trying to remember when we did that first interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe Trish was the one that carried the water buckets on that one, but I just remember it was an interesting situation that clearly the ninth floor [Center management] felt they had a problem. Who were you guys under before?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "IRD [Information Resources Directorate]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00395:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 16.52455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t do a lot hands-on on that. Mike Fodroci really was working with Ad Astra [Rocket Company]. What they were really trying to do was give them—and this was a nonreimbursable one. It was to help them negotiate the safety protocols to put VASIMR on ISS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did want to go back and ask about the Orbiter Project Office, because there were a couple things that I thought might be interesting for people to know about. At that time, things were starting to shift. We were starting to process vehicles, getting them ready for museums. I wanted to know what your involvement was in that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Shuttle Transition Office was headed by Dorothy [S.] Rasco, and they handled all of that. Our focus up until the Shuttle Program ended was the next mission; it was the next mission. I guess it would have been August [2011] when the Shuttle Program really was done. I became the S&MA director for the Center, and then the Shuttle Transition Office assumed responsibility. We just basically walked away from everything and left it to Dorothy and her gang of thieves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have liked to have held on and gone with each of the vehicles to its final home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "John Shannon had come to you and said he wanted you to focus on building those relationships with the other projects. Can you talk about that and give some examples?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00395:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think so. I didn’t just encourage it. It was, “I’m not asking you to collaborate with these people, I’m telling you that’s what you’re going to do.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was a mandate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of those last few missions and that final mission? Were you there for the final mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They are a bit of sadness that you knew that those were [the final flights]; it probably wasn’t the last few missions, although we knew which was the last mission for each vehicle. There was a certain last part, but up until Atlantis flew in 2011—up until then, you always had one more mission that you knew that you could focus on, and you could look forward to. So it was that last one.\\n\\n One of the people that supported our contract was a gentleman named Joe [Joseph E.] Michelet. Joe had been around a long time. He had been a senior, senior NASA manager, and then I guess he was working for Boeing maybe. In the last pre-MMT (mission management team) meeting we had, I asked Joe to chair it. Just a tribute to the history of the program and the people who were involved there at the beginning, and that was kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of that day as wheels touched down?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00395:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of those last few missions and that final mission? Were you there for the final mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They are a bit of sadness that you knew that those were [the final flights]; it probably wasn’t the last few missions, although we knew which was the last mission for each vehicle. There was a certain last part, but up until Atlantis flew in 2011—up until then, you always had one more mission that you knew that you could focus on, and you could look forward to. So it was that last one.\\n\\n One of the people that supported our contract was a gentleman named Joe [Joseph E.] Michelet. Joe had been around a long time. He had been a senior, senior NASA manager, and then I guess he was working for Boeing maybe. In the last pre-MMT (mission management team) meeting we had, I asked Joe to chair it. Just a tribute to the history of the program and the people who were involved there at the beginning, and that was kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of that day as wheels touched down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was business as usual. It’s deorbit day. We were so engaged in executing the mission that I don’t think we really thought that it’s over until the vehicle stopped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We normally like to ask folks a few things before they leave, one of which is what do you think is your greatest accomplishment, looking back over your NASA career. If you had to pick one, I know it’s a very long career."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00395:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was business as usual. It’s deorbit day. We were so engaged in executing the mission that I don’t think we really thought that it’s over until the vehicle stopped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We normally like to ask folks a few things before they leave, one of which is what do you think is your greatest accomplishment, looking back over your NASA career. If you had to pick one, I know it’s a very long career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I don’t know. I would say just having hung around for 30 years. How do you define the word accomplishment?\\n\\n I think the most exciting thing in my career was being on ISS for six months, and I think building a relationship with my Russian colleagues. And gosh, learning to speak Russian, and being able to just fly on a Russian vehicle and spend six months on ISS. We kept the Station running, and there were only two of us on board. There were several crews that way, but that was a physically and mentally challenging exercise. I just took a lot of satisfaction out of being the Orbiter project manager. I think maybe helping that team, helping Orbiter be a good team member."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your biggest challenge?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably my biggest challenge was being accepted in the astronaut program. Seriously. In retrospect, not a lot of it seems that challenging. There was the next task, and so you finish one task and now there’s another job in front of you. They were all doable. They seemed more exciting than they did challenging. Maybe they were exciting because they were challenging. I’m not sure there were any great challenges out there, it was just a lot of good things to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think this might be a good stopping place. If you’d like to come back we can talk about Gary [H. Kitmacher’s] questions."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.202795014893892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Will actually have to go back a couple of years. Sure. I was in high school, graduated from high school ‘64. And when I was in my sophomore year, one of the teachers from our school decided she wanted to go into the Peace Corps and she was selected, she came back in my senior year and we had a school program. She got up and she talked about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, where were you going to high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was in Colorado. Grand Junction, Colorado. And it just kind of inspired me that it sounded like something that was exciting and fun to do. And, you know, my background with my father had been towards service. He was in Scouts for probably close to 25 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you grown up in Grand Junction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly in Grand Junction, from the time I was about fifth grade till, you know, my first couple of years of college, we were in Grand Junction. So he was always, you know, you got to give something back. He did public service and he worked for the state of Colorado. And he did a lot of volunteer work with the Boy Scouts, loved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you were in high school, did you get involved with volunteer activities?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.225327794326548, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was in Colorado. Grand Junction, Colorado. And it just kind of inspired me that it sounded like something that was exciting and fun to do. And, you know, my background with my father had been towards service. He was in Scouts for probably close to 25 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you grown up in Grand Junction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly in Grand Junction, from the time I was about fifth grade till, you know, my first couple of years of college, we were in Grand Junction. So he was always, you know, you got to give something back. He did public service and he worked for the state of Colorado. And he did a lot of volunteer work with the Boy Scouts, loved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you were in high school, did you get involved with volunteer activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, other than Scouts, I was in Scouts pretty much all the way up until after I was graduated from high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, through Eagle?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.139253104807274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly in Grand Junction, from the time I was about fifth grade till, you know, my first couple of years of college, we were in Grand Junction. So he was always, you know, you got to give something back. He did public service and he worked for the state of Colorado. And he did a lot of volunteer work with the Boy Scouts, loved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you were in high school, did you get involved with volunteer activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, other than Scouts, I was in Scouts pretty much all the way up until after I was graduated from high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, through Eagle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through Eagle, through Explorer Scouts. So when when this thing came along, it was kind of like an opportunity to go out and see the world and I thought this would be really great. So right after the assembly they had somebody there who was taking names and application of interest, not actual application for per se. But, you know, would you be interested? And I signed up, I’m going to go to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is just after high school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.043614560896971, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, other than Scouts, I was in Scouts pretty much all the way up until after I was graduated from high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, through Eagle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through Eagle, through Explorer Scouts. So when when this thing came along, it was kind of like an opportunity to go out and see the world and I thought this would be really great. So right after the assembly they had somebody there who was taking names and application of interest, not actual application for per se. But, you know, would you be interested? And I signed up, I’m going to go to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is just after high school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was high school in ‘64. So I never heard a word for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. And now when did you fill out an application?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.937349512107746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through Eagle, through Explorer Scouts. So when when this thing came along, it was kind of like an opportunity to go out and see the world and I thought this would be really great. So right after the assembly they had somebody there who was taking names and application of interest, not actual application for per se. But, you know, would you be interested? And I signed up, I’m going to go to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is just after high school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was high school in ‘64. So I never heard a word for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. And now when did you fill out an application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I did. I remember that I wanted to go to Micronesia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They asked you for a preference."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.819277235675273, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was high school in ‘64. So I never heard a word for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. And now when did you fill out an application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I did. I remember that I wanted to go to Micronesia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They asked you for a preference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and I love the South Seas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what they also do as a kind of a skill array supposed to describe the skills you have, you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.68808581741697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I did. I remember that I wanted to go to Micronesia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They asked you for a preference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and I love the South Seas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what they also do as a kind of a skill array supposed to describe the skills you have, you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that time, probably the only skill I had was I'd grown up in an agricultural type of background. We always had animals. We always had a small farm. And my dad came from a larger Soviet ranch when he was younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you grew up living on a small farm?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.542317574907745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and I love the South Seas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what they also do as a kind of a skill array supposed to describe the skills you have, you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that time, probably the only skill I had was I'd grown up in an agricultural type of background. We always had animals. We always had a small farm. And my dad came from a larger Soviet ranch when he was younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you grew up living on a small farm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the country. Yeah. We we had three acres. We really rented some acreage for the frame feed for the animals, usually kept pigs. So I knew how to deal with pigs, how to put them through the birthing process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any brothers or sisters?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.380352861008605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that time, probably the only skill I had was I'd grown up in an agricultural type of background. We always had animals. We always had a small farm. And my dad came from a larger Soviet ranch when he was younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you grew up living on a small farm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the country. Yeah. We we had three acres. We really rented some acreage for the frame feed for the animals, usually kept pigs. So I knew how to deal with pigs, how to put them through the birthing process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any brothers or sisters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had one sister, three years older than I was. And she was in college by the time I got out of high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you remember, when you filled out the application, you indicated agricultural skills as one of the skills."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.31150317889845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the country. Yeah. We we had three acres. We really rented some acreage for the frame feed for the animals, usually kept pigs. So I knew how to deal with pigs, how to put them through the birthing process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any brothers or sisters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had one sister, three years older than I was. And she was in college by the time I got out of high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you remember, when you filled out the application, you indicated agricultural skills as one of the skills."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was about the only saleable skill I had at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we still in high school or had you by then going on to college when you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.495682936911665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was about the only saleable skill I had at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we still in high school or had you by then going on to college when you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think this was right after high school just before we graduated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I remember her coming back and doing the assembly and there were people at a table in the hallway with a little clipboard. And I just thought, wow, this would be a great thing if I could do that. So I filled out all the paperwork and oh, and then went on with my life and went to college out in Colorado."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's concentrate on. Do you recall at that point whether you were getting references and did you have to take the Peace Corps entry exam? Were they still giving an exam at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.66186992990185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think this was right after high school just before we graduated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I remember her coming back and doing the assembly and there were people at a table in the hallway with a little clipboard. And I just thought, wow, this would be a great thing if I could do that. So I filled out all the paperwork and oh, and then went on with my life and went to college out in Colorado."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's concentrate on. Do you recall at that point whether you were getting references and did you have to take the Peace Corps entry exam? Were they still giving an exam at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think any of that happened. I think what happened is they took my application, put it in the process, shoot. Two years later it came out the other end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably because of the agricultural flight. So, yeah, during your years up through high school, had you done any travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.957633255446499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I remember her coming back and doing the assembly and there were people at a table in the hallway with a little clipboard. And I just thought, wow, this would be a great thing if I could do that. So I filled out all the paperwork and oh, and then went on with my life and went to college out in Colorado."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's concentrate on. Do you recall at that point whether you were getting references and did you have to take the Peace Corps entry exam? Were they still giving an exam at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think any of that happened. I think what happened is they took my application, put it in the process, shoot. Two years later it came out the other end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably because of the agricultural flight. So, yeah, during your years up through high school, had you done any travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than to various parts of the country to visit family farms about it, that’s about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing outside the U.S.?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.397370283829442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think any of that happened. I think what happened is they took my application, put it in the process, shoot. Two years later it came out the other end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably because of the agricultural flight. So, yeah, during your years up through high school, had you done any travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than to various parts of the country to visit family farms about it, that’s about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing outside the U.S.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing outside the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you studied any foreign language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 13.774855870921602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than to various parts of the country to visit family farms about it, that’s about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing outside the U.S.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing outside the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you studied any foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had Latin in high school. But that’s not coming in handy. I could go to Latin America and speak Latin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you go to college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.527617634357334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing outside the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you studied any foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had Latin in high school. But that’s not coming in handy. I could go to Latin America and speak Latin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you go to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when I graduated from high school, I applied to the University of Colorado at Boulder. It was over the mountains from from where I lived. Yeah. And I was looking at taking architecture and engineering. And then and two years after I started, I was looking for a summer job in 1966. I had applied to the city and county of Denver in the drafting department planning department. And I was hired as a draftsperson and I worked there and I was taking some courses in Denver, working in Denver for the summer before I went back for the fall. Right. And towards the end of the summer of 1966, I got a letter from the Peace Corps said, would you like to go to India? And I said, yes!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how old were you then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.25290848261926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had Latin in high school. But that’s not coming in handy. I could go to Latin America and speak Latin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you go to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when I graduated from high school, I applied to the University of Colorado at Boulder. It was over the mountains from from where I lived. Yeah. And I was looking at taking architecture and engineering. And then and two years after I started, I was looking for a summer job in 1966. I had applied to the city and county of Denver in the drafting department planning department. And I was hired as a draftsperson and I worked there and I was taking some courses in Denver, working in Denver for the summer before I went back for the fall. Right. And towards the end of the summer of 1966, I got a letter from the Peace Corps said, would you like to go to India? And I said, yes!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how old were you then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have been 20 at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So fairly young."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.058787202910288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when I graduated from high school, I applied to the University of Colorado at Boulder. It was over the mountains from from where I lived. Yeah. And I was looking at taking architecture and engineering. And then and two years after I started, I was looking for a summer job in 1966. I had applied to the city and county of Denver in the drafting department planning department. And I was hired as a draftsperson and I worked there and I was taking some courses in Denver, working in Denver for the summer before I went back for the fall. Right. And towards the end of the summer of 1966, I got a letter from the Peace Corps said, would you like to go to India? And I said, yes!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how old were you then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have been 20 at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So fairly young."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was fairly young, you know, which later on acted to my detriment when they finished the program. The training program. And we can get to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, what was your family's attitude? Did they know you had applied?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.954208003233653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have been 20 at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So fairly young."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was fairly young, you know, which later on acted to my detriment when they finished the program. The training program. And we can get to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, what was your family's attitude? Did they know you had applied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember whether they did. I'm pretty sure I had told them because I write that to my mom and dad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at the summer, when you're working in Denver, uh, up to that point, other than the returned teacher who was a volunteer. Had you met anyone who had been in the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.949120003592947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was fairly young, you know, which later on acted to my detriment when they finished the program. The training program. And we can get to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, what was your family's attitude? Did they know you had applied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember whether they did. I'm pretty sure I had told them because I write that to my mom and dad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at the summer, when you're working in Denver, uh, up to that point, other than the returned teacher who was a volunteer. Had you met anyone who had been in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And hadn't met anybody else who’d been in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you remember your initial reaction when you got a letter from Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.94346667065883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember whether they did. I'm pretty sure I had told them because I write that to my mom and dad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at the summer, when you're working in Denver, uh, up to that point, other than the returned teacher who was a volunteer. Had you met anyone who had been in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And hadn't met anybody else who’d been in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you remember your initial reaction when you got a letter from Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just terribly excited because I thought, wow, this is a chance. India. Wow. You know, I had heard so much about India. I'd read a little bit about India. Right. It seemed like a very foreign foreign country to me because of the differences in religions, differences in languages, you know, multiple languages, other side of the world type of thing. And I'd read some stories and accounts of the British Raj and what that was like in India. And I just thought this would be a fantastic thing to go to India and see firsthand what the other side of the world was all about. So I don't think I even hesitated. I just signed it and sent it back and said, of course, I'll go at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what your family's reaction was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.937185189620923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And hadn't met anybody else who’d been in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you remember your initial reaction when you got a letter from Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just terribly excited because I thought, wow, this is a chance. India. Wow. You know, I had heard so much about India. I'd read a little bit about India. Right. It seemed like a very foreign foreign country to me because of the differences in religions, differences in languages, you know, multiple languages, other side of the world type of thing. And I'd read some stories and accounts of the British Raj and what that was like in India. And I just thought this would be a fantastic thing to go to India and see firsthand what the other side of the world was all about. So I don't think I even hesitated. I just signed it and sent it back and said, of course, I'll go at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what your family's reaction was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they knew until probably the weekend when I went down there and went back home for the weekend and said, hey, guess what, India. They said what? I said, yes, in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had no hesitation. I mean, you were in the middle of a college career and working toward a degree."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.04131687735658, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just terribly excited because I thought, wow, this is a chance. India. Wow. You know, I had heard so much about India. I'd read a little bit about India. Right. It seemed like a very foreign foreign country to me because of the differences in religions, differences in languages, you know, multiple languages, other side of the world type of thing. And I'd read some stories and accounts of the British Raj and what that was like in India. And I just thought this would be a fantastic thing to go to India and see firsthand what the other side of the world was all about. So I don't think I even hesitated. I just signed it and sent it back and said, of course, I'll go at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what your family's reaction was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they knew until probably the weekend when I went down there and went back home for the weekend and said, hey, guess what, India. They said what? I said, yes, in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had no hesitation. I mean, you were in the middle of a college career and working toward a degree."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, but it wasn't as exciting as going to India would be. Uh, I was having a little bit of academic difficulty because I couldn't apply myself as much as I should have at that. I can't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, do you remember if at that point the draft was an issue?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.520144293032816, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, but it wasn't as exciting as going to India would be. Uh, I was having a little bit of academic difficulty because I couldn't apply myself as much as I should have at that. I can't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, do you remember if at that point the draft was an issue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's ‘66."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I know I had to sign up for the draft and I know they were drafting people for Vietnam, right. But that didn't really influence my decision one way or the other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, OK. It's that era. And that's why I ask."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.911271436703128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's ‘66."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I know I had to sign up for the draft and I know they were drafting people for Vietnam, right. But that didn't really influence my decision one way or the other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, OK. It's that era. And that's why I ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not even sure if I even consciously took that into account in my consideration to go to India. You know, just here was this opportunity, which I felt was a once in a lifetime opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did what did the invitation say? You're invited to India to work in pig production or just in an agricultural project?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.456968263003475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I know I had to sign up for the draft and I know they were drafting people for Vietnam, right. But that didn't really influence my decision one way or the other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, OK. It's that era. And that's why I ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not even sure if I even consciously took that into account in my consideration to go to India. You know, just here was this opportunity, which I felt was a once in a lifetime opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did what did the invitation say? You're invited to India to work in pig production or just in an agricultural project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe they just said in an agricultural production, because when I got to the program, the program was set up with maybe about 50 to 60 men. And about 40 of those were for general agriculture, 10 were for pig production and 10 were for poultry production."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe your taking, saying goodbye and leaving Grand Junction. I mean, any second thoughts? Were people, you know, at the station to wave you off or it was just you went?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.17440918111497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not even sure if I even consciously took that into account in my consideration to go to India. You know, just here was this opportunity, which I felt was a once in a lifetime opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did what did the invitation say? You're invited to India to work in pig production or just in an agricultural project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe they just said in an agricultural production, because when I got to the program, the program was set up with maybe about 50 to 60 men. And about 40 of those were for general agriculture, 10 were for pig production and 10 were for poultry production."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe your taking, saying goodbye and leaving Grand Junction. I mean, any second thoughts? Were people, you know, at the station to wave you off or it was just you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My parents took me out to dinner the night before I left. But as far as making a big deal of it, I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know friends try to talk you out of it, you know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.091863186561692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My parents took me out to dinner the night before I left. But as far as making a big deal of it, I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know friends try to talk you out of it, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nobody tried to talk about it. Matter of fact, some of my college friends were envious that I was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they were, you know, my best friend at the time. He and I were we're looking for excitement in our lives because there was this period of the war was going on and it was just difficult to to go to school knowing that there's a possibility you could be dropped out of school any minute, drive him at least. And he was looking trying to get married. And then when this thing came for India. He said, wow, you know, that's really cool, are you going to go? And I said, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we had to report for training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.10207020729077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nobody tried to talk about it. Matter of fact, some of my college friends were envious that I was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they were, you know, my best friend at the time. He and I were we're looking for excitement in our lives because there was this period of the war was going on and it was just difficult to to go to school knowing that there's a possibility you could be dropped out of school any minute, drive him at least. And he was looking trying to get married. And then when this thing came for India. He said, wow, you know, that's really cool, are you going to go? And I said, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we had to report for training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We trained in Davis, California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you flew to Los Angeles?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.113411341434187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they were, you know, my best friend at the time. He and I were we're looking for excitement in our lives because there was this period of the war was going on and it was just difficult to to go to school knowing that there's a possibility you could be dropped out of school any minute, drive him at least. And he was looking trying to get married. And then when this thing came for India. He said, wow, you know, that's really cool, are you going to go? And I said, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we had to report for training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We trained in Davis, California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you flew to Los Angeles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I think we flew to Sacramento. I can't remember exactly. Davis. t's south of Sacramento and east of San Francisco."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, yeah. Yeah. All right. I know where it is."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.01490149048243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We trained in Davis, California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you flew to Los Angeles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I think we flew to Sacramento. I can't remember exactly. Davis. t's south of Sacramento and east of San Francisco."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, yeah. Yeah. All right. I know where it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, it's kind of interesting because there was this other guy on the airplane about my age and he was a few seats away from me. And he had this book called The Zinzin Road, uh, which I found out later was a book about Peace Corps in West Africa. And I was thinking myself, you know, it's a strange thing for somebody to be reading. Well, we got off the plane and whoever picked us up. There was me. There was this guy and his book and several other people who'd flown in there. And he was laughing kind of at me because. Well, did you see the book I was reading? Why didn't you come say hi and tell me you were going to Peace Corps training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember, as the group gathered at Davis? Now, you know, you're no longer in Grand Junction. You're in this whole new world. And there were some 50 other people who are doing the same thing. Inevitably, you know, you sort of match yourself up against the others in the group. Do you recall your reaction to the group and now you're becoming part of it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.67271788948448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, it's kind of interesting because there was this other guy on the airplane about my age and he was a few seats away from me. And he had this book called The Zinzin Road, uh, which I found out later was a book about Peace Corps in West Africa. And I was thinking myself, you know, it's a strange thing for somebody to be reading. Well, we got off the plane and whoever picked us up. There was me. There was this guy and his book and several other people who'd flown in there. And he was laughing kind of at me because. Well, did you see the book I was reading? Why didn't you come say hi and tell me you were going to Peace Corps training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember, as the group gathered at Davis? Now, you know, you're no longer in Grand Junction. You're in this whole new world. And there were some 50 other people who are doing the same thing. Inevitably, you know, you sort of match yourself up against the others in the group. Do you recall your reaction to the group and now you're becoming part of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, there were a couple of interesting things that happened. First thing I noticed when I walked into the building. We actually stayed in an old bracero camp, uh, maybe about three miles outside the city of Davis itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Presaro?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bracero, the guest worker program for Mexicans. And I walked in and it was my college roommate from the University of Colorado. And of course, we had this big, you know, what are you doing here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't know he was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.191908766093869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, there were a couple of interesting things that happened. First thing I noticed when I walked into the building. We actually stayed in an old bracero camp, uh, maybe about three miles outside the city of Davis itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Presaro?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bracero, the guest worker program for Mexicans. And I walked in and it was my college roommate from the University of Colorado. And of course, we had this big, you know, what are you doing here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't know he was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no idea he had applied. Uh, and the sad thing is that within a week, he had decided it wasn't for him and he left. So we never really get a chance to do that. The other thing is that this was mid ‘60s. So we had the Beatles going on and the California beach boy beach bum right thing going on. And where I lived in Colorado, we were relatively sheltered. You know, we we didn't have a lot of people coming in and going out. So when I got to training and I looked at some of the guys who were from California, they had hair that was down to their collars. Oh, what are these guys doing? You know, just because I've never been exposed to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So that the first clue."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.73075156307885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no idea he had applied. Uh, and the sad thing is that within a week, he had decided it wasn't for him and he left. So we never really get a chance to do that. The other thing is that this was mid ‘60s. So we had the Beatles going on and the California beach boy beach bum right thing going on. And where I lived in Colorado, we were relatively sheltered. You know, we we didn't have a lot of people coming in and going out. So when I got to training and I looked at some of the guys who were from California, they had hair that was down to their collars. Oh, what are these guys doing? You know, just because I've never been exposed to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So that the first clue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they're not Beatles, they’re not singers. They're guys with long hair. And there was another guy who looked like Dennis Hopper. He had hair down almost to his shoulder blades and he looked like Dennis Hopper and he kind of acted like it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any beards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A few. There was one gentleman from New York City, uh uh, beautiful black beard. And when we got to India, or actually during training, we were trained by several Indian nationals who were teaching us language and teaching us customs and culture. And they thought that Charlie looked like the god, Shiva, because most of the pictures you see of Shiva had this tall, strong looking man with a dark beard and came to a point. Yeah, that's exactly what Charlie looked like. So they started calling him Shivaji, Honorable Shiva. So he took it in good, good, good stride. I had a beard when I went there. And I think ever since I got out of high school, I had a beard. So that didn’t bother me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Cause there were different times where it was an issue with Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.923057292309833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they're not Beatles, they’re not singers. They're guys with long hair. And there was another guy who looked like Dennis Hopper. He had hair down almost to his shoulder blades and he looked like Dennis Hopper and he kind of acted like it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any beards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A few. There was one gentleman from New York City, uh uh, beautiful black beard. And when we got to India, or actually during training, we were trained by several Indian nationals who were teaching us language and teaching us customs and culture. And they thought that Charlie looked like the god, Shiva, because most of the pictures you see of Shiva had this tall, strong looking man with a dark beard and came to a point. Yeah, that's exactly what Charlie looked like. So they started calling him Shivaji, Honorable Shiva. So he took it in good, good, good stride. I had a beard when I went there. And I think ever since I got out of high school, I had a beard. So that didn’t bother me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Cause there were different times where it was an issue with Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They never said anything about hair or beards as far as that goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're staying at this braceros camp and you how long is the training going to be? Do you have any idea?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.136730324788703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A few. There was one gentleman from New York City, uh uh, beautiful black beard. And when we got to India, or actually during training, we were trained by several Indian nationals who were teaching us language and teaching us customs and culture. And they thought that Charlie looked like the god, Shiva, because most of the pictures you see of Shiva had this tall, strong looking man with a dark beard and came to a point. Yeah, that's exactly what Charlie looked like. So they started calling him Shivaji, Honorable Shiva. So he took it in good, good, good stride. I had a beard when I went there. And I think ever since I got out of high school, I had a beard. So that didn’t bother me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Cause there were different times where it was an issue with Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They never said anything about hair or beards as far as that goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're staying at this braceros camp and you how long is the training going to be? Do you have any idea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe the training was for three months. And during that time, we were supposed to refine our skills and whatever of the three different parts of the program we were going into."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you designated early for the pig production?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.48525591643189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They never said anything about hair or beards as far as that goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're staying at this braceros camp and you how long is the training going to be? Do you have any idea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe the training was for three months. And during that time, we were supposed to refine our skills and whatever of the three different parts of the program we were going into."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you designated early for the pig production?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember when I was designated. It could be that we did it when we got there and he said we need 10 for this and 10 for them to rescue here, or it could be that early on, I said, you know, if I've had experience with pigs and they assigned me, I just don't remember it at this point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a fair number in the group who had no agricultural background?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.761395462702101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe the training was for three months. And during that time, we were supposed to refine our skills and whatever of the three different parts of the program we were going into."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you designated early for the pig production?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember when I was designated. It could be that we did it when we got there and he said we need 10 for this and 10 for them to rescue here, or it could be that early on, I said, you know, if I've had experience with pigs and they assigned me, I just don't remember it at this point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a fair number in the group who had no agricultural background?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. We had one kid from Connecticut, Steve Johnson, going into our programs that said, I’ve never seen a live pig outside of a zoo. And what really, really hard to take is that this kid who'd never seen pigs before he got into our program, was the only one who actually got a successful piggery running. So all of us who had experience, we just had too many other problems to get going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So so you there's some agricultural training. Another component of the training is cross-cultural studies and studying about the country you’re going to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.179328291891222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember when I was designated. It could be that we did it when we got there and he said we need 10 for this and 10 for them to rescue here, or it could be that early on, I said, you know, if I've had experience with pigs and they assigned me, I just don't remember it at this point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a fair number in the group who had no agricultural background?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. We had one kid from Connecticut, Steve Johnson, going into our programs that said, I’ve never seen a live pig outside of a zoo. And what really, really hard to take is that this kid who'd never seen pigs before he got into our program, was the only one who actually got a successful piggery running. So all of us who had experience, we just had too many other problems to get going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So so you there's some agricultural training. Another component of the training is cross-cultural studies and studying about the country you’re going to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Studying about country. We were going to central India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you knew that in advance?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.310364768768025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. We had one kid from Connecticut, Steve Johnson, going into our programs that said, I’ve never seen a live pig outside of a zoo. And what really, really hard to take is that this kid who'd never seen pigs before he got into our program, was the only one who actually got a successful piggery running. So all of us who had experience, we just had too many other problems to get going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So so you there's some agricultural training. Another component of the training is cross-cultural studies and studying about the country you’re going to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Studying about country. We were going to central India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you knew that in advance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We knew that we were going to go to the state of Maharashtra, which is kind of extends from Bombay to the middle of India. And we knew that we were supposed to learn Marathi, which I think was a sister language to Hindi. So they were trying to teach that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How intensive was language training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.455960854186694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Studying about country. We were going to central India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you knew that in advance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We knew that we were going to go to the state of Maharashtra, which is kind of extends from Bombay to the middle of India. And we knew that we were supposed to learn Marathi, which I think was a sister language to Hindi. So they were trying to teach that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How intensive was language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fairly intensive. I think we had two or three classes a day. And the instructors we had both male and female instructors, many of the female instructors had husbands who were either going to school or working at Davis University there. So they were kind of doing like a part time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it said that you were going to be working in the language, not in English, when you got there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.728845393540771, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We knew that we were going to go to the state of Maharashtra, which is kind of extends from Bombay to the middle of India. And we knew that we were supposed to learn Marathi, which I think was a sister language to Hindi. So they were trying to teach that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How intensive was language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fairly intensive. I think we had two or three classes a day. And the instructors we had both male and female instructors, many of the female instructors had husbands who were either going to school or working at Davis University there. So they were kind of doing like a part time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it said that you were going to be working in the language, not in English, when you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was implied we need to know the language, so it was fairly intensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did they give you FSR testing, the Foreign Service language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.143161548378634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fairly intensive. I think we had two or three classes a day. And the instructors we had both male and female instructors, many of the female instructors had husbands who were either going to school or working at Davis University there. So they were kind of doing like a part time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it said that you were going to be working in the language, not in English, when you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was implied we need to know the language, so it was fairly intensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did they give you FSR testing, the Foreign Service language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t believe so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Another part of training often is medical, and for that, I mean some medical training. Do you recall any of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.492401720420704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was implied we need to know the language, so it was fairly intensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did they give you FSR testing, the Foreign Service language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t believe so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Another part of training often is medical, and for that, I mean some medical training. Do you recall any of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had no medical training per se. We might have had a first aid course, but nothing intensive. And we did not have any physical education at all in our training program. I found out later after I got married that my wife's older sister's husband had been in the Peace Corps. And I think Mexico about a year or so before I had gone in or maybe two years. And we talked about it later. And he said that there were a lot of physical training, things that they had to do. You know, they had to swim in the river."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The camps in Puerto Rico. So, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.769335244911893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t believe so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Another part of training often is medical, and for that, I mean some medical training. Do you recall any of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had no medical training per se. We might have had a first aid course, but nothing intensive. And we did not have any physical education at all in our training program. I found out later after I got married that my wife's older sister's husband had been in the Peace Corps. And I think Mexico about a year or so before I had gone in or maybe two years. And we talked about it later. And he said that there were a lot of physical training, things that they had to do. You know, they had to swim in the river."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The camps in Puerto Rico. So, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we really didn't have any of that by late ‘66, early ‘67. That wasn't part of the program anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not during the three months of training. Did anyone who'd served with the Peace Corps in India come and take part in the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.74370582767988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had no medical training per se. We might have had a first aid course, but nothing intensive. And we did not have any physical education at all in our training program. I found out later after I got married that my wife's older sister's husband had been in the Peace Corps. And I think Mexico about a year or so before I had gone in or maybe two years. And we talked about it later. And he said that there were a lot of physical training, things that they had to do. You know, they had to swim in the river."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The camps in Puerto Rico. So, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we really didn't have any of that by late ‘66, early ‘67. That wasn't part of the program anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not during the three months of training. Did anyone who'd served with the Peace Corps in India come and take part in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had an older couple, very old and must have been in their 50s, at least at that time. I thought they were ancient. I believe they were from Ohio and they had gone to someplace in India, south India, I believe. Bob was an old Ohio farmer who was working in agriculture and his wife Dorothy was teaching English. And she kind of took over as a substitute mom for all of us. And she made sure that if we were homesick, she had somebody to talk to and she'd take us out. And there was money for, I guess, entertainment and she would make crafts and things for us to do"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would be this is during the training process?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.493006475199867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we really didn't have any of that by late ‘66, early ‘67. That wasn't part of the program anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not during the three months of training. Did anyone who'd served with the Peace Corps in India come and take part in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had an older couple, very old and must have been in their 50s, at least at that time. I thought they were ancient. I believe they were from Ohio and they had gone to someplace in India, south India, I believe. Bob was an old Ohio farmer who was working in agriculture and his wife Dorothy was teaching English. And she kind of took over as a substitute mom for all of us. And she made sure that if we were homesick, she had somebody to talk to and she'd take us out. And there was money for, I guess, entertainment and she would make crafts and things for us to do"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would be this is during the training process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During training, when we had like a long weekend and the right thing to do on a Saturday afternoon. You didn't want to go down to the university. You can go in and see Dorothy and she'd give, you know, some something to do that you could work with your hands and just kind of keep your mind off. So it was it was nice to have those people there as part of the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you tend through the training to stick closer with the other pig production, or was the group just sort of mixed and divided into groups on different sides?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.214451639110964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had an older couple, very old and must have been in their 50s, at least at that time. I thought they were ancient. I believe they were from Ohio and they had gone to someplace in India, south India, I believe. Bob was an old Ohio farmer who was working in agriculture and his wife Dorothy was teaching English. And she kind of took over as a substitute mom for all of us. And she made sure that if we were homesick, she had somebody to talk to and she'd take us out. And there was money for, I guess, entertainment and she would make crafts and things for us to do"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would be this is during the training process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During training, when we had like a long weekend and the right thing to do on a Saturday afternoon. You didn't want to go down to the university. You can go in and see Dorothy and she'd give, you know, some something to do that you could work with your hands and just kind of keep your mind off. So it was it was nice to have those people there as part of the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you tend through the training to stick closer with the other pig production, or was the group just sort of mixed and divided into groups on different sides?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty much a mixed group. We didn't really have that distinction. You know, we would have separate portions of training, right? Like the piggery guys would go out to various farms in the neighborhood. We went up to Chico State. And they had a large agricultural program up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was most of the piggery work familiar to you? I mean, to do it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.01605737678996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During training, when we had like a long weekend and the right thing to do on a Saturday afternoon. You didn't want to go down to the university. You can go in and see Dorothy and she'd give, you know, some something to do that you could work with your hands and just kind of keep your mind off. So it was it was nice to have those people there as part of the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you tend through the training to stick closer with the other pig production, or was the group just sort of mixed and divided into groups on different sides?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty much a mixed group. We didn't really have that distinction. You know, we would have separate portions of training, right? Like the piggery guys would go out to various farms in the neighborhood. We went up to Chico State. And they had a large agricultural program up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was most of the piggery work familiar to you? I mean, to do it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's basically. Yeah, but but it went even further than that and it got into the the academic part of it. Which as a general farmer you don't get into all. They gave us this great big thick book on everything you needed to know about raising pigs and talked about the different diseases that talked about inoculations and talked about how to do things from a medical standpoint. Generally, if you're just raising a few pigs at a time, you're not going to do. Yeah, and it really got into the feed of how to create a food that would have all the necessary vitamins by a certain percentage. And I remember we went to Chico State. We talked about the professors there and he showed us how to work all this stuff out. And then we actually had a test. You got all these different types of things. What kind of a mix would you use to try to do for pig? You had to figure out the percentages and write that down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was anyone describing the exact job you were going to be doing once you got to India? Or was this all still at the theoretical point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.90673041865551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty much a mixed group. We didn't really have that distinction. You know, we would have separate portions of training, right? Like the piggery guys would go out to various farms in the neighborhood. We went up to Chico State. And they had a large agricultural program up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was most of the piggery work familiar to you? I mean, to do it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's basically. Yeah, but but it went even further than that and it got into the the academic part of it. Which as a general farmer you don't get into all. They gave us this great big thick book on everything you needed to know about raising pigs and talked about the different diseases that talked about inoculations and talked about how to do things from a medical standpoint. Generally, if you're just raising a few pigs at a time, you're not going to do. Yeah, and it really got into the feed of how to create a food that would have all the necessary vitamins by a certain percentage. And I remember we went to Chico State. We talked about the professors there and he showed us how to work all this stuff out. And then we actually had a test. You got all these different types of things. What kind of a mix would you use to try to do for pig? You had to figure out the percentages and write that down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was anyone describing the exact job you were going to be doing once you got to India? Or was this all still at the theoretical point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They told us we'd be working with societies, pig society, piggery societies. And we didn't actually find out until either much later in the program or until we got there and what that meant. But it was a program that was started by the Indian government and they had requested of people with certain areas of expertise to come in and work with that program. So when we got there, it was a program that was just pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were the first in this, if not the first."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.896367131839455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's basically. Yeah, but but it went even further than that and it got into the the academic part of it. Which as a general farmer you don't get into all. They gave us this great big thick book on everything you needed to know about raising pigs and talked about the different diseases that talked about inoculations and talked about how to do things from a medical standpoint. Generally, if you're just raising a few pigs at a time, you're not going to do. Yeah, and it really got into the feed of how to create a food that would have all the necessary vitamins by a certain percentage. And I remember we went to Chico State. We talked about the professors there and he showed us how to work all this stuff out. And then we actually had a test. You got all these different types of things. What kind of a mix would you use to try to do for pig? You had to figure out the percentages and write that down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was anyone describing the exact job you were going to be doing once you got to India? Or was this all still at the theoretical point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They told us we'd be working with societies, pig society, piggery societies. And we didn't actually find out until either much later in the program or until we got there and what that meant. But it was a program that was started by the Indian government and they had requested of people with certain areas of expertise to come in and work with that program. So when we got there, it was a program that was just pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were the first in this, if not the first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were pretty close to being the first people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another big piece of most training programs is the selection process. And it varies from time to time and place to place where you were given a psychological test, you might be interviewed by a psychologist or even a psychiatrist. Do you recall any of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.995963479821615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They told us we'd be working with societies, pig society, piggery societies. And we didn't actually find out until either much later in the program or until we got there and what that meant. But it was a program that was started by the Indian government and they had requested of people with certain areas of expertise to come in and work with that program. So when we got there, it was a program that was just pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were the first in this, if not the first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were pretty close to being the first people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another big piece of most training programs is the selection process. And it varies from time to time and place to place where you were given a psychological test, you might be interviewed by a psychologist or even a psychiatrist. Do you recall any of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a staff psychologist who was, I think, it was there mostly as an observer. I don't remember specific tests, but I think we did have some tests. And during the selection process, at the end, they were worried about me because they thought I was too young to go and they almost deselected me because of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you the youngest in the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.106626088690684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were pretty close to being the first people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another big piece of most training programs is the selection process. And it varies from time to time and place to place where you were given a psychological test, you might be interviewed by a psychologist or even a psychiatrist. Do you recall any of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a staff psychologist who was, I think, it was there mostly as an observer. I don't remember specific tests, but I think we did have some tests. And during the selection process, at the end, they were worried about me because they thought I was too young to go and they almost deselected me because of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you the youngest in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually I was getting close to 21."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there were others in the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.34069565410076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a staff psychologist who was, I think, it was there mostly as an observer. I don't remember specific tests, but I think we did have some tests. And during the selection process, at the end, they were worried about me because they thought I was too young to go and they almost deselected me because of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you the youngest in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually I was getting close to 21."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there were others in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Others in the group who were fresh out of high school, and there were others who were quite a bit older. But there were those who had not completed a college degree but had grown up on a farm or were a little bit younger for the most part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren't exclusively alone in that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.711884060111954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually I was getting close to 21."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there were others in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Others in the group who were fresh out of high school, and there were others who were quite a bit older. But there were those who had not completed a college degree but had grown up on a farm or were a little bit younger for the most part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren't exclusively alone in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They tried to get people with experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your answer when they said you were too young?\n\nYou had a beard."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.124315622346614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Others in the group who were fresh out of high school, and there were others who were quite a bit older. But there were those who had not completed a college degree but had grown up on a farm or were a little bit younger for the most part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren't exclusively alone in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They tried to get people with experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your answer when they said you were too young?\n\nYou had a beard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a beard. How young can I be? I probably said, you know, I'll be OK. Don't worry about me. I mean, they almost got me out. We have a swami who was part of our training program. He was um I think he was from Eastern America, but he had so adopted the Indian religion that he had become a swami. He'd gone to training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is a Hindu religion?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.58257291371846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They tried to get people with experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your answer when they said you were too young?\n\nYou had a beard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a beard. How young can I be? I probably said, you know, I'll be OK. Don't worry about me. I mean, they almost got me out. We have a swami who was part of our training program. He was um I think he was from Eastern America, but he had so adopted the Indian religion that he had become a swami. He'd gone to training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is a Hindu religion?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A Hindu religion. He had his own ashram outside of San Francisco. And when the psychologist and the director said that you may be better if I came back in a year or two and retrained, I'd be more suited for it, he tried to get me to go to the ashram for a while to see if he could help me get straightened out. I chose not to do that. And they relented and let me go to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that must have been a little unsettling though."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.20285879302051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a beard. How young can I be? I probably said, you know, I'll be OK. Don't worry about me. I mean, they almost got me out. We have a swami who was part of our training program. He was um I think he was from Eastern America, but he had so adopted the Indian religion that he had become a swami. He'd gone to training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is a Hindu religion?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A Hindu religion. He had his own ashram outside of San Francisco. And when the psychologist and the director said that you may be better if I came back in a year or two and retrained, I'd be more suited for it, he tried to get me to go to the ashram for a while to see if he could help me get straightened out. I chose not to do that. And they relented and let me go to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that must have been a little unsettling though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in retrospect, I think they were probably right. I think I was a little too young to go to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So don't tell us now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.780954214467233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A Hindu religion. He had his own ashram outside of San Francisco. And when the psychologist and the director said that you may be better if I came back in a year or two and retrained, I'd be more suited for it, he tried to get me to go to the ashram for a while to see if he could help me get straightened out. I chose not to do that. And they relented and let me go to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that must have been a little unsettling though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in retrospect, I think they were probably right. I think I was a little too young to go to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So don't tell us now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can tell you now. Forty years ago. Forty plus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so the training, three months, just the final selection. And I did a large number get deselected?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.423282460519147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in retrospect, I think they were probably right. I think I was a little too young to go to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So don't tell us now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can tell you now. Forty years ago. Forty plus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so the training, three months, just the final selection. And I did a large number get deselected?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lot of attrition through the program. Like I said, my, my college roommate deselected himself the first week. One of the long haired hippies from San Francisco decided that he didn't want to go to India to kill chickens. Deselected himself. We had another young man who I, I believe younger than I was, and I believe he was deselected because he really was too young. And we had one man drafted out of the program. Oh. Which surprised everybody. Uh, and we had one of the California surfer boys who got involved with one of the girls at the university, and her daddy decided that he should stay there and marry her before she had the baby before, rather than go to India. So we all attended his wedding. And by that time, you know, we'd had maybe five or six people out of the program with other reasons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a fairly strong group feeling?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.13698051168794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can tell you now. Forty years ago. Forty plus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so the training, three months, just the final selection. And I did a large number get deselected?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lot of attrition through the program. Like I said, my, my college roommate deselected himself the first week. One of the long haired hippies from San Francisco decided that he didn't want to go to India to kill chickens. Deselected himself. We had another young man who I, I believe younger than I was, and I believe he was deselected because he really was too young. And we had one man drafted out of the program. Oh. Which surprised everybody. Uh, and we had one of the California surfer boys who got involved with one of the girls at the university, and her daddy decided that he should stay there and marry her before she had the baby before, rather than go to India. So we all attended his wedding. And by that time, you know, we'd had maybe five or six people out of the program with other reasons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a fairly strong group feeling?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. There were a few people that, uh, like this faction didn't get along with that for sure. But, uh, once we got to India and we would meet each other for various reasons, you know, it was like long lost brothers because here you are, the only white person in what were miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a cohort of sorts. Uh, so you get through the questions about your age and everything and the training is over. What happens at that point? Did you get a chance to get home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 16.818867235208824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lot of attrition through the program. Like I said, my, my college roommate deselected himself the first week. One of the long haired hippies from San Francisco decided that he didn't want to go to India to kill chickens. Deselected himself. We had another young man who I, I believe younger than I was, and I believe he was deselected because he really was too young. And we had one man drafted out of the program. Oh. Which surprised everybody. Uh, and we had one of the California surfer boys who got involved with one of the girls at the university, and her daddy decided that he should stay there and marry her before she had the baby before, rather than go to India. So we all attended his wedding. And by that time, you know, we'd had maybe five or six people out of the program with other reasons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a fairly strong group feeling?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. There were a few people that, uh, like this faction didn't get along with that for sure. But, uh, once we got to India and we would meet each other for various reasons, you know, it was like long lost brothers because here you are, the only white person in what were miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a cohort of sorts. Uh, so you get through the questions about your age and everything and the training is over. What happens at that point? Did you get a chance to get home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe we got sent home for a week or two. You know, clean up our affairs. Whatever affairs we had at the age of twenty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And packing up clothes for two years."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.90985248356536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. There were a few people that, uh, like this faction didn't get along with that for sure. But, uh, once we got to India and we would meet each other for various reasons, you know, it was like long lost brothers because here you are, the only white person in what were miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a cohort of sorts. Uh, so you get through the questions about your age and everything and the training is over. What happens at that point? Did you get a chance to get home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe we got sent home for a week or two. You know, clean up our affairs. Whatever affairs we had at the age of twenty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And packing up clothes for two years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were allowed to take, uh, I think it was one hundred pounds in a duffel bag and it was interesting what people would pack. There was an older gentleman, Merle, who was a carpenter by trade. And for some reason he was in the piggery area. But when he packed his duffel bag, he took about 100 pounds of carpentry tools with him. And we had a guy who was a mountain climber, you know, and his bag was climbing tools. But when we got to Delhi, which is where we flew into the day before New Year's. We landed and you could see the Himalayas to the north of us with the sun gleaming off there. And he went right to the office and signed up for a third year because he wanted to be close to those mountains. That was his reason for going to the Peace Corps to go mountain climbing in the Himalayas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do recall what you packed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.122058315072621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe we got sent home for a week or two. You know, clean up our affairs. Whatever affairs we had at the age of twenty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And packing up clothes for two years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were allowed to take, uh, I think it was one hundred pounds in a duffel bag and it was interesting what people would pack. There was an older gentleman, Merle, who was a carpenter by trade. And for some reason he was in the piggery area. But when he packed his duffel bag, he took about 100 pounds of carpentry tools with him. And we had a guy who was a mountain climber, you know, and his bag was climbing tools. But when we got to Delhi, which is where we flew into the day before New Year's. We landed and you could see the Himalayas to the north of us with the sun gleaming off there. And he went right to the office and signed up for a third year because he wanted to be close to those mountains. That was his reason for going to the Peace Corps to go mountain climbing in the Himalayas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do recall what you packed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I didn't take enough tools. I should have taken more clothes, blue jeans. Didn't take any books because they told us we'd have books given to us. Every household was given in what they call a book locker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, no security blankets."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.468953683414023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were allowed to take, uh, I think it was one hundred pounds in a duffel bag and it was interesting what people would pack. There was an older gentleman, Merle, who was a carpenter by trade. And for some reason he was in the piggery area. But when he packed his duffel bag, he took about 100 pounds of carpentry tools with him. And we had a guy who was a mountain climber, you know, and his bag was climbing tools. But when we got to Delhi, which is where we flew into the day before New Year's. We landed and you could see the Himalayas to the north of us with the sun gleaming off there. And he went right to the office and signed up for a third year because he wanted to be close to those mountains. That was his reason for going to the Peace Corps to go mountain climbing in the Himalayas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do recall what you packed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I didn't take enough tools. I should have taken more clothes, blue jeans. Didn't take any books because they told us we'd have books given to us. Every household was given in what they call a book locker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, no security blankets."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't think of any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, so you as a group, you flew to New Delhi."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.632170759348915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I didn't take enough tools. I should have taken more clothes, blue jeans. Didn't take any books because they told us we'd have books given to us. Every household was given in what they call a book locker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, no security blankets."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't think of any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, so you as a group, you flew to New Delhi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew to, we met in New York and we spent, I think, a day in New York and getting gathered. So we had about a twenty four hour layover in New York City where we could kind of wander around and see what was going on in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First time to the city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.813523065943238, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't think of any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, so you as a group, you flew to New Delhi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew to, we met in New York and we spent, I think, a day in New York and getting gathered. So we had about a twenty four hour layover in New York City where we could kind of wander around and see what was going on in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First time to the city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First time to New York, yeah. And then we all got on a plane, Air India. At that time, they were trying to become the charter flight for the Peace Corps to India. They pulled out all the stops."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a charter flight. The whole plane was just Peace Corps people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.126136739936932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew to, we met in New York and we spent, I think, a day in New York and getting gathered. So we had about a twenty four hour layover in New York City where we could kind of wander around and see what was going on in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First time to the city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First time to New York, yeah. And then we all got on a plane, Air India. At that time, they were trying to become the charter flight for the Peace Corps to India. They pulled out all the stops."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a charter flight. The whole plane was just Peace Corps people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were other people on there, but there were a lot of Peace Corps people. And I believe the director of the Peace Corps was flying first class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The director of Peace Corps in India, or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.47348526659659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First time to New York, yeah. And then we all got on a plane, Air India. At that time, they were trying to become the charter flight for the Peace Corps to India. They pulled out all the stops."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a charter flight. The whole plane was just Peace Corps people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were other people on there, but there were a lot of Peace Corps people. And I believe the director of the Peace Corps was flying first class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The director of Peace Corps in India, or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I'm not really sure. And the reason I can't remember is because one of the things they did to pull out all the stops was they were handing out bottles of Chivas Regal. For those of us who thought this was a good thing, yeah, partook freely. And they told me that I got drunk and made a jackass out of myself up in first class with the director. And I don't remember a thing about it, thank god. And I hope he doesn’t either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jack Warner, it would have been, if it was the Peace Corps director. Shriver was out by then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.970539185107322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were other people on there, but there were a lot of Peace Corps people. And I believe the director of the Peace Corps was flying first class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The director of Peace Corps in India, or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I'm not really sure. And the reason I can't remember is because one of the things they did to pull out all the stops was they were handing out bottles of Chivas Regal. For those of us who thought this was a good thing, yeah, partook freely. And they told me that I got drunk and made a jackass out of myself up in first class with the director. And I don't remember a thing about it, thank god. And I hope he doesn’t either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jack Warner, it would have been, if it was the Peace Corps director. Shriver was out by then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't know who it was. That’s one of the darker moments in my life that I just as soon forget."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Appropriately blanked out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.18948798345258, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I'm not really sure. And the reason I can't remember is because one of the things they did to pull out all the stops was they were handing out bottles of Chivas Regal. For those of us who thought this was a good thing, yeah, partook freely. And they told me that I got drunk and made a jackass out of myself up in first class with the director. And I don't remember a thing about it, thank god. And I hope he doesn’t either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jack Warner, it would have been, if it was the Peace Corps director. Shriver was out by then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't know who it was. That’s one of the darker moments in my life that I just as soon forget."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Appropriately blanked out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, you're too young to go to India. So I do remember kind of waking up in London, getting off the plane, going, trying to make a phone call. I have no idea who I was trying to call because I didn't know anybody in London, but I wanted the change. I want to take some of the Indian and English money home with me. Oh, I've got a crown and a half crown, but I got change for the machine so I could make a phone call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then now you arrive in New Delhi."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.543875537169532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't know who it was. That’s one of the darker moments in my life that I just as soon forget."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Appropriately blanked out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, you're too young to go to India. So I do remember kind of waking up in London, getting off the plane, going, trying to make a phone call. I have no idea who I was trying to call because I didn't know anybody in London, but I wanted the change. I want to take some of the Indian and English money home with me. Oh, I've got a crown and a half crown, but I got change for the machine so I could make a phone call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then now you arrive in New Delhi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We arrive in New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, do you recall your first impression?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.60430615241059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, you're too young to go to India. So I do remember kind of waking up in London, getting off the plane, going, trying to make a phone call. I have no idea who I was trying to call because I didn't know anybody in London, but I wanted the change. I want to take some of the Indian and English money home with me. Oh, I've got a crown and a half crown, but I got change for the machine so I could make a phone call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then now you arrive in New Delhi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We arrive in New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, do you recall your first impression?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very late at night. Uh. And the most persistent thing I remember about India is a smell, mmm, wood fire and dung. It just was everywhere. We got into a bus, which was an Indian bus. So, of course, you had to roll the windows down or lower the windows. And as we were going through there through the midnight streets of Delhi, just looking out at all of these unlit mud structures and smelling this odor and smelling the smoke. And I was just almost indescribable that that it had really struck home that this was a truly foreign country for all of us. And by this time, of course, we had been on the plane for 15, 16 hours with a stopover in London, the stopover in Cairo, and I think someplace else. And everybody was dog tired. We got to our hotel and there was this photographer who had been part of our training program. He had volunteered to go through the training program and take pictures and do like a photo documentary of a Peace Corps training group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 11.782562391567321, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We arrive in New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, do you recall your first impression?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very late at night. Uh. And the most persistent thing I remember about India is a smell, mmm, wood fire and dung. It just was everywhere. We got into a bus, which was an Indian bus. So, of course, you had to roll the windows down or lower the windows. And as we were going through there through the midnight streets of Delhi, just looking out at all of these unlit mud structures and smelling this odor and smelling the smoke. And I was just almost indescribable that that it had really struck home that this was a truly foreign country for all of us. And by this time, of course, we had been on the plane for 15, 16 hours with a stopover in London, the stopover in Cairo, and I think someplace else. And everybody was dog tired. We got to our hotel and there was this photographer who had been part of our training program. He had volunteered to go through the training program and take pictures and do like a photo documentary of a Peace Corps training group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if it was for Peace Corps or his own personal reasons, but they let him go along with the training. I understand he paid his own way to go to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, you don't remember his name?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.42506932396369, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very late at night. Uh. And the most persistent thing I remember about India is a smell, mmm, wood fire and dung. It just was everywhere. We got into a bus, which was an Indian bus. So, of course, you had to roll the windows down or lower the windows. And as we were going through there through the midnight streets of Delhi, just looking out at all of these unlit mud structures and smelling this odor and smelling the smoke. And I was just almost indescribable that that it had really struck home that this was a truly foreign country for all of us. And by this time, of course, we had been on the plane for 15, 16 hours with a stopover in London, the stopover in Cairo, and I think someplace else. And everybody was dog tired. We got to our hotel and there was this photographer who had been part of our training program. He had volunteered to go through the training program and take pictures and do like a photo documentary of a Peace Corps training group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if it was for Peace Corps or his own personal reasons, but they let him go along with the training. I understand he paid his own way to go to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, you don't remember his name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "His name is Doug Whiteside, and he was out of San Francisco and he had been to India before. And when we got India the 31st of December, of course, the first of January is Independence Day for India. And Doug said one o'clock in the morning there's a big parade in Delhi. You know, there's going to be all this stuff. He wants to go. And everybody else was tired. And I said, I'll go with you. So of course, he had all the money I had, I had no money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was had he had been to India before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.0278548044041, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if it was for Peace Corps or his own personal reasons, but they let him go along with the training. I understand he paid his own way to go to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, you don't remember his name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "His name is Doug Whiteside, and he was out of San Francisco and he had been to India before. And when we got India the 31st of December, of course, the first of January is Independence Day for India. And Doug said one o'clock in the morning there's a big parade in Delhi. You know, there's going to be all this stuff. He wants to go. And everybody else was tired. And I said, I'll go with you. So of course, he had all the money I had, I had no money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was had he had been to India before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had been to India before. So he knew a little bit about the customs, you know, when to bribe a policeman and when not to bribe a policeman, let you through a barrier on the street. We rented a cab and got as close to the main street as possible. And then we kind of worked our way up to this major street in Delhi. And it turned out that we were maybe about a block away from the grandstand where Indira Gandhi and all the dignitaries were on this stand to watch the parade go by. And we were on the other side of the street. And it just seemed like millions of people were out there. And of course, they have the streets all roped off. And he said, come on, let's go. And he'd get out beyond the ropes and I'd be tagging along with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was just the two of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.207228153585309, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had been to India before. So he knew a little bit about the customs, you know, when to bribe a policeman and when not to bribe a policeman, let you through a barrier on the street. We rented a cab and got as close to the main street as possible. And then we kind of worked our way up to this major street in Delhi. And it turned out that we were maybe about a block away from the grandstand where Indira Gandhi and all the dignitaries were on this stand to watch the parade go by. And we were on the other side of the street. And it just seemed like millions of people were out there. And of course, they have the streets all roped off. And he said, come on, let's go. And he'd get out beyond the ropes and I'd be tagging along with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was just the two of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just the two of us. The police would be yelling at us to get back under the ropes and don't understand, don't understand. Just got to get good position to take photographs. And we finally got to where we were going and we had the parade. They had the trucks with the missiles on them and they had the marching soldiers. They had the ceremonial elephants with the full trappings and their full colors. And I thought it was just a fantastic for the first day. Here we are with the whole parade. And I know if I wanted, I could have gone down there and said hi to the prime minister and it was just great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you sobered up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I sobered up. Actually pretty sober by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so the first couple of days in, uh, New Delhi."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.8969201706503425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just the two of us. The police would be yelling at us to get back under the ropes and don't understand, don't understand. Just got to get good position to take photographs. And we finally got to where we were going and we had the parade. They had the trucks with the missiles on them and they had the marching soldiers. They had the ceremonial elephants with the full trappings and their full colors. And I thought it was just a fantastic for the first day. Here we are with the whole parade. And I know if I wanted, I could have gone down there and said hi to the prime minister and it was just great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you sobered up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I sobered up. Actually pretty sober by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so the first couple of days in, uh, New Delhi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we had a number of meetings with people who were going to be our counterparts in the villages we were going to be assigned to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the point you arrived, do you have any idea how many Peace Corps volunteers were in India at that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.663244634055936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I sobered up. Actually pretty sober by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so the first couple of days in, uh, New Delhi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we had a number of meetings with people who were going to be our counterparts in the villages we were going to be assigned to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the point you arrived, do you have any idea how many Peace Corps volunteers were in India at that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really didn't have any idea. I knew they were in the hundreds. There were a lot because we'd heard about people who were there, nursing programs, teaching program of industrial arts engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your first few days, were there Peace Corps staff people who appeared and sort of guided you through what was going on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.514716260062151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we had a number of meetings with people who were going to be our counterparts in the villages we were going to be assigned to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the point you arrived, do you have any idea how many Peace Corps volunteers were in India at that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really didn't have any idea. I knew they were in the hundreds. There were a lot because we'd heard about people who were there, nursing programs, teaching program of industrial arts engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your first few days, were there Peace Corps staff people who appeared and sort of guided you through what was going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a lot of meetings that we were expected to attend that had a lot of the Indian officials as well as the people we were going to be working with. And then our officials would take us in and of course, everybody and give speeches and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Our officials being the Peace Corps staff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.460795844513502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really didn't have any idea. I knew they were in the hundreds. There were a lot because we'd heard about people who were there, nursing programs, teaching program of industrial arts engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your first few days, were there Peace Corps staff people who appeared and sort of guided you through what was going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a lot of meetings that we were expected to attend that had a lot of the Indian officials as well as the people we were going to be working with. And then our officials would take us in and of course, everybody and give speeches and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Our officials being the Peace Corps staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps staff. So they would they would give us all of these beautiful, flowery speeches about the cooperation between our country and theirs and what we were going to do. And yeah, and then after a while, we were just standing there looking at these people. We were supposed to go back to the village but what do we do next?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you remember meeting a counterpart?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.067550938348334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a lot of meetings that we were expected to attend that had a lot of the Indian officials as well as the people we were going to be working with. And then our officials would take us in and of course, everybody and give speeches and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Our officials being the Peace Corps staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps staff. So they would they would give us all of these beautiful, flowery speeches about the cooperation between our country and theirs and what we were going to do. And yeah, and then after a while, we were just standing there looking at these people. We were supposed to go back to the village but what do we do next?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you remember meeting a counterpart?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, I did. And the interesting thing is that when you introduce yourself in India, you introduce yourself by your last name. And Americans, of course, introduce yourself by your first name. So for all the time I was there, I was Mr. Jim. And my counterpart, Mr. Deshmukh, he always called me that, I could never get him to drop the Mr. or go with Mr. Maurer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your initial contact with him, I assume the exchanges were in English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.7417232648314815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps staff. So they would they would give us all of these beautiful, flowery speeches about the cooperation between our country and theirs and what we were going to do. And yeah, and then after a while, we were just standing there looking at these people. We were supposed to go back to the village but what do we do next?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you remember meeting a counterpart?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, I did. And the interesting thing is that when you introduce yourself in India, you introduce yourself by your last name. And Americans, of course, introduce yourself by your first name. So for all the time I was there, I was Mr. Jim. And my counterpart, Mr. Deshmukh, he always called me that, I could never get him to drop the Mr. or go with Mr. Maurer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your initial contact with him, I assume the exchanges were in English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, because we found out that once we got to where we were going to go, they didn't speak Marathi in that area. The people who did speak Marathi spoke English for the most part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren't you weren't particularly fluent in Marathi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.490803627590535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, I did. And the interesting thing is that when you introduce yourself in India, you introduce yourself by your last name. And Americans, of course, introduce yourself by your first name. So for all the time I was there, I was Mr. Jim. And my counterpart, Mr. Deshmukh, he always called me that, I could never get him to drop the Mr. or go with Mr. Maurer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your initial contact with him, I assume the exchanges were in English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, because we found out that once we got to where we were going to go, they didn't speak Marathi in that area. The people who did speak Marathi spoke English for the most part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren't you weren't particularly fluent in Marathi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not terribly. And the ones who didn't speak English typically spoke Hindi. But the people in the piggery society were all very good speakers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there must have been an initial, uh, transition phase and tuning into Indian English, which is emphasis and everything is different, you know the whole lilt. Do you recall, you know, sort of straining to figure out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.32311514176726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, because we found out that once we got to where we were going to go, they didn't speak Marathi in that area. The people who did speak Marathi spoke English for the most part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren't you weren't particularly fluent in Marathi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not terribly. And the ones who didn't speak English typically spoke Hindi. But the people in the piggery society were all very good speakers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there must have been an initial, uh, transition phase and tuning into Indian English, which is emphasis and everything is different, you know the whole lilt. Do you recall, you know, sort of straining to figure out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't think I had that much difficulty because we had had the Indian teachers who spoke the same type of English. Although we kind of got used to the way they pronounce some of the words and ran with tongue in the back of the mouth and the patterns. And we had a lot of fun with them too, because there were certain times when they were trying to say English words, which we absolutely could not understand because they were putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable. And we had a lot of laughs over over that when we finally got straightened out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you meet your counterparts and you're still in New Delhi and is it are you now identified just as the piggery group or are you still traveling with the rest of the people? I want to get you out to your site and what the transition was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.247905713074733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not terribly. And the ones who didn't speak English typically spoke Hindi. But the people in the piggery society were all very good speakers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there must have been an initial, uh, transition phase and tuning into Indian English, which is emphasis and everything is different, you know the whole lilt. Do you recall, you know, sort of straining to figure out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't think I had that much difficulty because we had had the Indian teachers who spoke the same type of English. Although we kind of got used to the way they pronounce some of the words and ran with tongue in the back of the mouth and the patterns. And we had a lot of fun with them too, because there were certain times when they were trying to say English words, which we absolutely could not understand because they were putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable. And we had a lot of laughs over over that when we finally got straightened out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you meet your counterparts and you're still in New Delhi and is it are you now identified just as the piggery group or are you still traveling with the rest of the people? I want to get you out to your site and what the transition was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I'm not really sure I do remember that there were a lot of us on the train going from Delhi down to Bombay. Yeah. And then I think what happened once we got to Bombay is that we were all sent to our sites from there, because there was a regional office in Bombay, a regional Peace Corps office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It became an issue later, but do you recall if there were any Peace Corps discussion of emergency procedures or, you know, if you were out in your village and something happens, you should be that you should do this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.164339681194146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't think I had that much difficulty because we had had the Indian teachers who spoke the same type of English. Although we kind of got used to the way they pronounce some of the words and ran with tongue in the back of the mouth and the patterns. And we had a lot of fun with them too, because there were certain times when they were trying to say English words, which we absolutely could not understand because they were putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable. And we had a lot of laughs over over that when we finally got straightened out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you meet your counterparts and you're still in New Delhi and is it are you now identified just as the piggery group or are you still traveling with the rest of the people? I want to get you out to your site and what the transition was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I'm not really sure I do remember that there were a lot of us on the train going from Delhi down to Bombay. Yeah. And then I think what happened once we got to Bombay is that we were all sent to our sites from there, because there was a regional office in Bombay, a regional Peace Corps office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It became an issue later, but do you recall if there were any Peace Corps discussion of emergency procedures or, you know, if you were out in your village and something happens, you should be that you should do this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I wish there had been because there came a time when I needed some emergency procedures. I was 14 hours from Bombay on a fast train. And I needed to get to the hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when you get out there, we'll talk about the communication. So you head down to Bombay and then from Bombay, how do you get out to where your station is and how far is it from Bombay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.84926631243794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I'm not really sure I do remember that there were a lot of us on the train going from Delhi down to Bombay. Yeah. And then I think what happened once we got to Bombay is that we were all sent to our sites from there, because there was a regional office in Bombay, a regional Peace Corps office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It became an issue later, but do you recall if there were any Peace Corps discussion of emergency procedures or, you know, if you were out in your village and something happens, you should be that you should do this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I wish there had been because there came a time when I needed some emergency procedures. I was 14 hours from Bombay on a fast train. And I needed to get to the hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when you get out there, we'll talk about the communication. So you head down to Bombay and then from Bombay, how do you get out to where your station is and how far is it from Bombay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were I was stationed. The way we had our, I think by the time we got everybody who was going to India, I think we had seven people left in the piggery society. We had two of them went north of Bombay. I went to pretty much central India by myself. We had Steve Johnson, who had never seen the pig before, go to Poona, which is southeast of Bombay. And then we had two people who were staying in Bombay to work with the agricultural college there. And their job was to set up a receiving station in an area where the port could be processed, where pigs could be processed once we finally got pigs into and then look for a market, because in the villages, typically you either had Hindus and Muslims who wouldn't eat pork."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I was wondering about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.610295902708821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I wish there had been because there came a time when I needed some emergency procedures. I was 14 hours from Bombay on a fast train. And I needed to get to the hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when you get out there, we'll talk about the communication. So you head down to Bombay and then from Bombay, how do you get out to where your station is and how far is it from Bombay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were I was stationed. The way we had our, I think by the time we got everybody who was going to India, I think we had seven people left in the piggery society. We had two of them went north of Bombay. I went to pretty much central India by myself. We had Steve Johnson, who had never seen the pig before, go to Poona, which is southeast of Bombay. And then we had two people who were staying in Bombay to work with the agricultural college there. And their job was to set up a receiving station in an area where the port could be processed, where pigs could be processed once we finally got pigs into and then look for a market, because in the villages, typically you either had Hindus and Muslims who wouldn't eat pork."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I was wondering about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was one of the things that we always kicked around. What are we doing here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who in India is going to end up eating the pork?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.2336621141209125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were I was stationed. The way we had our, I think by the time we got everybody who was going to India, I think we had seven people left in the piggery society. We had two of them went north of Bombay. I went to pretty much central India by myself. We had Steve Johnson, who had never seen the pig before, go to Poona, which is southeast of Bombay. And then we had two people who were staying in Bombay to work with the agricultural college there. And their job was to set up a receiving station in an area where the port could be processed, where pigs could be processed once we finally got pigs into and then look for a market, because in the villages, typically you either had Hindus and Muslims who wouldn't eat pork."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I was wondering about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was one of the things that we always kicked around. What are we doing here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who in India is going to end up eating the pork?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's why it was sent to Bombay to be processed, because you had a lot of Westernized Indians and you had a lot of Europeans and Americans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a market."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.815180126801014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was one of the things that we always kicked around. What are we doing here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who in India is going to end up eating the pork?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's why it was sent to Bombay to be processed, because you had a lot of Westernized Indians and you had a lot of Europeans and Americans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a market."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was a market. I mean, OK, we found a place in Relevé that served a pretty good hamburger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Relatively modest market, though. I mean, it's not like this is food for the millions."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.350200140890015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's why it was sent to Bombay to be processed, because you had a lot of Westernized Indians and you had a lot of Europeans and Americans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a market."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was a market. I mean, OK, we found a place in Relevé that served a pretty good hamburger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Relatively modest market, though. I mean, it's not like this is food for the millions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's not food for the millions. Well we understood was that this was an economic type of program that the government was putting money into, the Indian government. The American government is providing the expertise and the volunteers. And each society consisted of twenty five shares. And the idea was you would have twenty five farmers who would scrape up the minimum amount to match the government's contribution and then the society of twenty five people would be formed. As we got things up and running, they would be able to split all the profits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was USAID involved at all on the project?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.944666823211128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was a market. I mean, OK, we found a place in Relevé that served a pretty good hamburger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Relatively modest market, though. I mean, it's not like this is food for the millions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's not food for the millions. Well we understood was that this was an economic type of program that the government was putting money into, the Indian government. The American government is providing the expertise and the volunteers. And each society consisted of twenty five shares. And the idea was you would have twenty five farmers who would scrape up the minimum amount to match the government's contribution and then the society of twenty five people would be formed. As we got things up and running, they would be able to split all the profits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was USAID involved at all on the project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps in India must have trusted you as being mature because they sent you off alone. So talk about the village you went to and whether other Peace Corps around. I mean, what was it like initially getting out to this village and how far was it from Bombay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.494074248012365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's not food for the millions. Well we understood was that this was an economic type of program that the government was putting money into, the Indian government. The American government is providing the expertise and the volunteers. And each society consisted of twenty five shares. And the idea was you would have twenty five farmers who would scrape up the minimum amount to match the government's contribution and then the society of twenty five people would be formed. As we got things up and running, they would be able to split all the profits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was USAID involved at all on the project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps in India must have trusted you as being mature because they sent you off alone. So talk about the village you went to and whether other Peace Corps around. I mean, what was it like initially getting out to this village and how far was it from Bombay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, in terms of kilometers, I think about four hundred and fifty kilometers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the way you get there is by train?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.56058549137329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, in terms of kilometers, I think about four hundred and fifty kilometers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the way you get there is by train?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By train. We were not allowed to have private vehicles. The only people that did have private vehicles were high ranking Peace Corps staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And one of our supervisors would go around from village to village in a in a Jeep Wagoneer. And but he was one of the few people who could drive in India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So talk about your initial reaction and your arrival in the village."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9562061015258774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By train. We were not allowed to have private vehicles. The only people that did have private vehicles were high ranking Peace Corps staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And one of our supervisors would go around from village to village in a in a Jeep Wagoneer. And but he was one of the few people who could drive in India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So talk about your initial reaction and your arrival in the village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By the time we got to Bombay, I had started conversing with Mr. Deshmukh, my counterpart, and I think there was another person there who was also one of the the other lower ranking, not not one of the investors, but one of the people who worked for the investors. And so by that time we were friendly enough with each other at least to be able to converse a little bit. I do remember the first time I got there, got to the train station and they said, OK, you're going to go to such and such a place and we'll see you tomorrow down here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have your one hundred pound duffel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.505724891824229, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just don't know. It wasn't a family. Eventually we got straightened out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, it's crazy. You've traveled these thousands of miles and then all of a sudden you’re all alone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of a sudden I’m all by myself. I don't know what I'm doing and where I'm going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a curtained booth, in a restaurant with food you can’t eat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People staring at me. And I’m going, what am I doing here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, wow, that's a tough one. So describe the first couple of days, you know, getting your feet on the ground."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8952498798047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of a sudden I’m all by myself. I don't know what I'm doing and where I'm going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a curtained booth, in a restaurant with food you can’t eat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People staring at me. And I’m going, what am I doing here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, wow, that's a tough one. So describe the first couple of days, you know, getting your feet on the ground."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the next day I managed to get together with the members of the society. And I found out then that what the Indian government had envisioned as a self-help economic development program wasn't really that at all. There were two brothers and a cousin who were fairly well off, high ranking Hindus, Hindus who had bought all the twenty five shares of the piggery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you learn this from the get go."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.328055422005222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People staring at me. And I’m going, what am I doing here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, wow, that's a tough one. So describe the first couple of days, you know, getting your feet on the ground."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the next day I managed to get together with the members of the society. And I found out then that what the Indian government had envisioned as a self-help economic development program wasn't really that at all. There were two brothers and a cousin who were fairly well off, high ranking Hindus, Hindus who had bought all the twenty five shares of the piggery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you learn this from the get go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the get go. We are the society, the three of us, you, me, my brother and cousin, or whatever it was. And, you know, we're investing the money so that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who did they think you were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8089504688946905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the next day I managed to get together with the members of the society. And I found out then that what the Indian government had envisioned as a self-help economic development program wasn't really that at all. There were two brothers and a cousin who were fairly well off, high ranking Hindus, Hindus who had bought all the twenty five shares of the piggery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you learn this from the get go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the get go. We are the society, the three of us, you, me, my brother and cousin, or whatever it was. And, you know, we're investing the money so that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who did they think you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they knew I was a Peace Corps volunteer to help them get the things set up, to help them with the actual setting up the piggery site. Getting the pigs, getting the feed, figuring out where to put them to market."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And essentially your piece of it is animal husbandry. It's not finance."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.343278298771878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the get go. We are the society, the three of us, you, me, my brother and cousin, or whatever it was. And, you know, we're investing the money so that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who did they think you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they knew I was a Peace Corps volunteer to help them get the things set up, to help them with the actual setting up the piggery site. Getting the pigs, getting the feed, figuring out where to put them to market."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And essentially your piece of it is animal husbandry. It's not finance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. You know, this this was something else entirely. And so it came as a little bit of a shock that that this obviously was a, uh, I thought it was kind of a scam that these guys were going through because they were the farmers that I was led to believe that we were right out there to help. These guys were businessmen. They were they're investing to make money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to share this with your counterpart?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.936975887524309, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they knew I was a Peace Corps volunteer to help them get the things set up, to help them with the actual setting up the piggery site. Getting the pigs, getting the feed, figuring out where to put them to market."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And essentially your piece of it is animal husbandry. It's not finance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. You know, this this was something else entirely. And so it came as a little bit of a shock that that this obviously was a, uh, I thought it was kind of a scam that these guys were going through because they were the farmers that I was led to believe that we were right out there to help. These guys were businessmen. They were they're investing to make money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to share this with your counterpart?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was his role in this mix supposed to be? Exactly the same as yours?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.59663987502701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. You know, this this was something else entirely. And so it came as a little bit of a shock that that this obviously was a, uh, I thought it was kind of a scam that these guys were going through because they were the farmers that I was led to believe that we were right out there to help. These guys were businessmen. They were they're investing to make money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to share this with your counterpart?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was his role in this mix supposed to be? Exactly the same as yours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he, uh, he was kind of like an office person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me his name again."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.329599861141122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was his role in this mix supposed to be? Exactly the same as yours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he, uh, he was kind of like an office person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me his name again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deshmukh. Well, they were all named Deshmukh so they're all related."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One is Deshmukh. OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.143999845712358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he, uh, he was kind of like an office person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me his name again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deshmukh. Well, they were all named Deshmukh so they're all related."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One is Deshmukh. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His primary job, as near as I could tell it, was to to do the paperwork and to to make sure that all the applications were correct and just make sure that everything kept flowing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the point you arrive, was there any anyone in the village raising pigs?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.937777606347064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deshmukh. Well, they were all named Deshmukh so they're all related."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One is Deshmukh. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His primary job, as near as I could tell it, was to to do the paperwork and to to make sure that all the applications were correct and just make sure that everything kept flowing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the point you arrive, was there any anyone in the village raising pigs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, I didn't really go to a village, I went to a small town that was bigger than the town I grew up in, but they called it the village. It had over 90 thousand people in it. And it was urban, very urbanized. Right within the first couple of days, though, they did take me to the village where the pigs were going to be raised. And that was about 10 kilometers further east up in the hills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did they how do you get out there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.819752895941182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His primary job, as near as I could tell it, was to to do the paperwork and to to make sure that all the applications were correct and just make sure that everything kept flowing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the point you arrive, was there any anyone in the village raising pigs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, I didn't really go to a village, I went to a small town that was bigger than the town I grew up in, but they called it the village. It had over 90 thousand people in it. And it was urban, very urbanized. Right within the first couple of days, though, they did take me to the village where the pigs were going to be raised. And that was about 10 kilometers further east up in the hills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did they how do you get out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they had a jeep. They took us all out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had you keep saying us. But it was just you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.688614328823537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, I didn't really go to a village, I went to a small town that was bigger than the town I grew up in, but they called it the village. It had over 90 thousand people in it. And it was urban, very urbanized. Right within the first couple of days, though, they did take me to the village where the pigs were going to be raised. And that was about 10 kilometers further east up in the hills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did they how do you get out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they had a jeep. They took us all out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had you keep saying us. But it was just you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, all of the people who, the Deshmukhs and. There was a ceremonial groundbreaking type thing where they had an Indian holy man, bless the what was going on, because when we got to the village, the village was maybe two hundred people. Consisted of one little tea stall store and probably 35 to 50 mud houses. And the piggery site was totally vacant, unprepared land with some trees on it. and that's where we were supposed to raise pigs and we had this little ceremony and we spread the blanket and they blessed everybody. And he had speeches and we all had ceremonial food to eat. And then after we did all the appropriate blessing. We went back to town and and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, what were you thinking?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.320682587581707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they had a jeep. They took us all out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had you keep saying us. But it was just you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, all of the people who, the Deshmukhs and. There was a ceremonial groundbreaking type thing where they had an Indian holy man, bless the what was going on, because when we got to the village, the village was maybe two hundred people. Consisted of one little tea stall store and probably 35 to 50 mud houses. And the piggery site was totally vacant, unprepared land with some trees on it. and that's where we were supposed to raise pigs and we had this little ceremony and we spread the blanket and they blessed everybody. And he had speeches and we all had ceremonial food to eat. And then after we did all the appropriate blessing. We went back to town and and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, what were you thinking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just didn't know what to do because there was absolutely nothing here. You know, and I thought to myself, well, am I supposed to make the bricks to build the pig pens by myself? It turned out that they did hire some people to dig a well, and by well, I mean, it was a place that was in the stream. In the head of the stream. It was dry season so the water wasn't running. And what they wanted to do was dig this. Well, that was about maybe 15 feet square and about 30 feet deep so that when the rainy season came, the water would fill up this well and they could use that for the for the remaining season. So we really had no water at the site. Even after I left, they still hadn't dug the well deep enough to hold water. So there there was no there were no pens, no fences, no structures of any kind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the money to do this had been put up by the rest of the rest of the Deshmukhs?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.022980652868564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, all of the people who, the Deshmukhs and. There was a ceremonial groundbreaking type thing where they had an Indian holy man, bless the what was going on, because when we got to the village, the village was maybe two hundred people. Consisted of one little tea stall store and probably 35 to 50 mud houses. And the piggery site was totally vacant, unprepared land with some trees on it. and that's where we were supposed to raise pigs and we had this little ceremony and we spread the blanket and they blessed everybody. And he had speeches and we all had ceremonial food to eat. And then after we did all the appropriate blessing. We went back to town and and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, what were you thinking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just didn't know what to do because there was absolutely nothing here. You know, and I thought to myself, well, am I supposed to make the bricks to build the pig pens by myself? It turned out that they did hire some people to dig a well, and by well, I mean, it was a place that was in the stream. In the head of the stream. It was dry season so the water wasn't running. And what they wanted to do was dig this. Well, that was about maybe 15 feet square and about 30 feet deep so that when the rainy season came, the water would fill up this well and they could use that for the for the remaining season. So we really had no water at the site. Even after I left, they still hadn't dug the well deep enough to hold water. So there there was no there were no pens, no fences, no structures of any kind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the money to do this had been put up by the rest of the rest of the Deshmukhs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The government and the Deshmukhs had matched it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you had no idea."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.803311836520627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just didn't know what to do because there was absolutely nothing here. You know, and I thought to myself, well, am I supposed to make the bricks to build the pig pens by myself? It turned out that they did hire some people to dig a well, and by well, I mean, it was a place that was in the stream. In the head of the stream. It was dry season so the water wasn't running. And what they wanted to do was dig this. Well, that was about maybe 15 feet square and about 30 feet deep so that when the rainy season came, the water would fill up this well and they could use that for the for the remaining season. So we really had no water at the site. Even after I left, they still hadn't dug the well deep enough to hold water. So there there was no there were no pens, no fences, no structures of any kind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the money to do this had been put up by the rest of the rest of the Deshmukhs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The government and the Deshmukhs had matched it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you had no idea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no idea where that money was"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or what a budget looked like or what a projection by six months will be here."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.670346485022918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The government and the Deshmukhs had matched it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you had no idea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no idea where that money was"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or what a budget looked like or what a projection by six months will be here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for the first few weeks you were living alone?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.300384983358798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no idea where that money was"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or what a budget looked like or what a projection by six months will be here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for the first few weeks you were living alone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At first they, uh, they tried to put me in a little mud hut. Which had absolutely no furniture, no door thatched roof. And I said, I don't really want to live here. And they found a place for me. There was an area that was called the camp, which is where the Indian army used to be. And there was a woman there, a widow who had been in India probably since the early 1900s. Her husband had been a British army officer who was in charge of the regiment for many, many years. And she had his old stone house that had a two wings and a central portion. She lived in the central portion and they rented out one of the wings for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was British?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.889316648176442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for the first few weeks you were living alone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At first they, uh, they tried to put me in a little mud hut. Which had absolutely no furniture, no door thatched roof. And I said, I don't really want to live here. And they found a place for me. There was an area that was called the camp, which is where the Indian army used to be. And there was a woman there, a widow who had been in India probably since the early 1900s. Her husband had been a British army officer who was in charge of the regiment for many, many years. And she had his old stone house that had a two wings and a central portion. She lived in the central portion and they rented out one of the wings for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was British?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was British and old almost to the point of senility, uh, bedridden. And, um, she had a cook that had been their cook for probably close to 50 years. He and his family lived in one of the outbuildings. So he became my cook for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at least you ended up so fairly soon in a reasonably familiar looking place."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.543685164640491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At first they, uh, they tried to put me in a little mud hut. Which had absolutely no furniture, no door thatched roof. And I said, I don't really want to live here. And they found a place for me. There was an area that was called the camp, which is where the Indian army used to be. And there was a woman there, a widow who had been in India probably since the early 1900s. Her husband had been a British army officer who was in charge of the regiment for many, many years. And she had his old stone house that had a two wings and a central portion. She lived in the central portion and they rented out one of the wings for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was British?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was British and old almost to the point of senility, uh, bedridden. And, um, she had a cook that had been their cook for probably close to 50 years. He and his family lived in one of the outbuildings. So he became my cook for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at least you ended up so fairly soon in a reasonably familiar looking place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a house. Yeah, no furniture still. Had to go by a little rush mat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had Peace Corps prepared you for any of this, like given you a settling in allowance?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.048539071822768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was British and old almost to the point of senility, uh, bedridden. And, um, she had a cook that had been their cook for probably close to 50 years. He and his family lived in one of the outbuildings. So he became my cook for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at least you ended up so fairly soon in a reasonably familiar looking place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a house. Yeah, no furniture still. Had to go by a little rush mat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had Peace Corps prepared you for any of this, like given you a settling in allowance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They gave us, I think it was five hundred rupees to set up a household. And then four hundred rupees a month for household expenses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Within the first couple of weeks, were you in communication with the Peace Corps at all? I mean, you must have wanted to tell somebody what in the world was going on."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.609487857580853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a house. Yeah, no furniture still. Had to go by a little rush mat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had Peace Corps prepared you for any of this, like given you a settling in allowance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They gave us, I think it was five hundred rupees to set up a household. And then four hundred rupees a month for household expenses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Within the first couple of weeks, were you in communication with the Peace Corps at all? I mean, you must have wanted to tell somebody what in the world was going on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not with any of the Peace Corps people back in Bombay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the town where the co-op with the piggery group is, were there other Europeans there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.121653175089836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They gave us, I think it was five hundred rupees to set up a household. And then four hundred rupees a month for household expenses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Within the first couple of weeks, were you in communication with the Peace Corps at all? I mean, you must have wanted to tell somebody what in the world was going on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not with any of the Peace Corps people back in Bombay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the town where the co-op with the piggery group is, were there other Europeans there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there were just down the street from where I was, there was a Canadian missionary and his wife, and we got to know them fairly well. And there were other two other Peace Corps volunteers from an earlier program that were sent there to work with industrial design. And they were living in a small industrial estate to the south of the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you became aware of them and, you know, hooked up them within fairly early on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.690725750099817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not with any of the Peace Corps people back in Bombay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the town where the co-op with the piggery group is, were there other Europeans there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there were just down the street from where I was, there was a Canadian missionary and his wife, and we got to know them fairly well. And there were other two other Peace Corps volunteers from an earlier program that were sent there to work with industrial design. And they were living in a small industrial estate to the south of the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you became aware of them and, you know, hooked up them within fairly early on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Became aware of them and eventually we all moved in together. We were joined later on by somebody from another village who was having problems with his Indian supervisors. Even though he had an engineering degree, they wouldn't let him do any engineering work. So we he'd met the two that I was living with and came and joined us. And all four of us shared that that one place in the industrial estate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's take the first six months. Did you go back to Bombay at all during that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.3230286112220195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there were just down the street from where I was, there was a Canadian missionary and his wife, and we got to know them fairly well. And there were other two other Peace Corps volunteers from an earlier program that were sent there to work with industrial design. And they were living in a small industrial estate to the south of the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you became aware of them and, you know, hooked up them within fairly early on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Became aware of them and eventually we all moved in together. We were joined later on by somebody from another village who was having problems with his Indian supervisors. Even though he had an engineering degree, they wouldn't let him do any engineering work. So we he'd met the two that I was living with and came and joined us. And all four of us shared that that one place in the industrial estate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's take the first six months. Did you go back to Bombay at all during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I know I'd been back to Bombay maybe three or four times in the entire time I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it because there was a meeting or you had to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.914476234691133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Became aware of them and eventually we all moved in together. We were joined later on by somebody from another village who was having problems with his Indian supervisors. Even though he had an engineering degree, they wouldn't let him do any engineering work. So we he'd met the two that I was living with and came and joined us. And all four of us shared that that one place in the industrial estate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's take the first six months. Did you go back to Bombay at all during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I know I'd been back to Bombay maybe three or four times in the entire time I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it because there was a meeting or you had to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was because of a meeting or we were having some type of seminar or we were going to be introduced to somebody. There was a gentleman there who worked for Pfizer. He was an Indian and he was someone who was supposed to provide us with the feed we needed. And he was at that time of India was a lot of a lot of stuff was being rationed, sugar, butter. These were rationed pretty much nationwide. Grain was rationed. And for whatever reason, the rationing of the grain was overseen by the minister of steel. And so, of course, he didn't really care too much about grain. So when we were trying to get food stuffs for the pigs, we had this incredible bureaucracy that Deshmukh was supposed to be able to figure out how to go through approval for us to get green for the pigs. And the man from Pfizer was supposed to know some of the shortcuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during the six months that anyone from the Peace Corps come out to your site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3494180385457035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I know I'd been back to Bombay maybe three or four times in the entire time I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it because there was a meeting or you had to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was because of a meeting or we were having some type of seminar or we were going to be introduced to somebody. There was a gentleman there who worked for Pfizer. He was an Indian and he was someone who was supposed to provide us with the feed we needed. And he was at that time of India was a lot of a lot of stuff was being rationed, sugar, butter. These were rationed pretty much nationwide. Grain was rationed. And for whatever reason, the rationing of the grain was overseen by the minister of steel. And so, of course, he didn't really care too much about grain. So when we were trying to get food stuffs for the pigs, we had this incredible bureaucracy that Deshmukh was supposed to be able to figure out how to go through approval for us to get green for the pigs. And the man from Pfizer was supposed to know some of the shortcuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during the six months that anyone from the Peace Corps come out to your site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe after a couple of months, uh, Ivan Brotzman, our supervisor, did make the rounds and check on everybody to make sure everybody was OK and settled in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall feeding back to him that there were some, you know, holes in the project perhaps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.832686709495226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was because of a meeting or we were having some type of seminar or we were going to be introduced to somebody. There was a gentleman there who worked for Pfizer. He was an Indian and he was someone who was supposed to provide us with the feed we needed. And he was at that time of India was a lot of a lot of stuff was being rationed, sugar, butter. These were rationed pretty much nationwide. Grain was rationed. And for whatever reason, the rationing of the grain was overseen by the minister of steel. And so, of course, he didn't really care too much about grain. So when we were trying to get food stuffs for the pigs, we had this incredible bureaucracy that Deshmukh was supposed to be able to figure out how to go through approval for us to get green for the pigs. And the man from Pfizer was supposed to know some of the shortcuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during the six months that anyone from the Peace Corps come out to your site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe after a couple of months, uh, Ivan Brotzman, our supervisor, did make the rounds and check on everybody to make sure everybody was OK and settled in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall feeding back to him that there were some, you know, holes in the project perhaps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I'm positive I let my frustrations be known to the administrator because from that point on, he really took a disliking to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about the others in the group during, again, during, say, the first six months or so? Were you in touch with them? And how did their experience match up against what you were experiencing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.36965189943914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe after a couple of months, uh, Ivan Brotzman, our supervisor, did make the rounds and check on everybody to make sure everybody was OK and settled in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall feeding back to him that there were some, you know, holes in the project perhaps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I'm positive I let my frustrations be known to the administrator because from that point on, he really took a disliking to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about the others in the group during, again, during, say, the first six months or so? Were you in touch with them? And how did their experience match up against what you were experiencing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were all pretty much in the same boat. We were kind of put out there and we didn't really have the infrastructure there for us to just hit the ground running, so to speak. And there wasn't really a support group for any of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Support group in what way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.966279888265711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I'm positive I let my frustrations be known to the administrator because from that point on, he really took a disliking to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about the others in the group during, again, during, say, the first six months or so? Were you in touch with them? And how did their experience match up against what you were experiencing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were all pretty much in the same boat. We were kind of put out there and we didn't really have the infrastructure there for us to just hit the ground running, so to speak. And there wasn't really a support group for any of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Support group in what way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In terms of where you getting your stuff from, who can I see to get this type of stuff? How are you how are you building your your pig pens? Where are you getting the material from? How are you doing it? What design are you using? I did go visit the other volunteers. I was we were fortunate we could do that. I think we had to pay for it out of our household money, but we saved up enough money. I went to visit the two guys north of Bombay and they had lucked out in that they had gotten with a farmer, a richer farmer, kind of like the people I was working for. He had had an estate. But he was in the process of already raising pigs, trying to improve the native pig line. So I got to see what they were trying to do. I know we had a, um, a convention or seminar down in Poona, which is where the other guys was, and trying to figure out, you know, what he's doing and how he's doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the convention was what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.62919987585079, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were all pretty much in the same boat. We were kind of put out there and we didn't really have the infrastructure there for us to just hit the ground running, so to speak. And there wasn't really a support group for any of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Support group in what way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In terms of where you getting your stuff from, who can I see to get this type of stuff? How are you how are you building your your pig pens? Where are you getting the material from? How are you doing it? What design are you using? I did go visit the other volunteers. I was we were fortunate we could do that. I think we had to pay for it out of our household money, but we saved up enough money. I went to visit the two guys north of Bombay and they had lucked out in that they had gotten with a farmer, a richer farmer, kind of like the people I was working for. He had had an estate. But he was in the process of already raising pigs, trying to improve the native pig line. So I got to see what they were trying to do. I know we had a, um, a convention or seminar down in Poona, which is where the other guys was, and trying to figure out, you know, what he's doing and how he's doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the convention was what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just the piggery guys, just the Peace Corps people so that we could at least get some feedback about how it's working for everybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other than other than your group, Peace Corps, people who were in the pig program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.365777639834211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In terms of where you getting your stuff from, who can I see to get this type of stuff? How are you how are you building your your pig pens? Where are you getting the material from? How are you doing it? What design are you using? I did go visit the other volunteers. I was we were fortunate we could do that. I think we had to pay for it out of our household money, but we saved up enough money. I went to visit the two guys north of Bombay and they had lucked out in that they had gotten with a farmer, a richer farmer, kind of like the people I was working for. He had had an estate. But he was in the process of already raising pigs, trying to improve the native pig line. So I got to see what they were trying to do. I know we had a, um, a convention or seminar down in Poona, which is where the other guys was, and trying to figure out, you know, what he's doing and how he's doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the convention was what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just the piggery guys, just the Peace Corps people so that we could at least get some feedback about how it's working for everybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other than other than your group, Peace Corps, people who were in the pig program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't believe there were any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you seem to feel that it was the first of its kind."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.961975155371345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just the piggery guys, just the Peace Corps people so that we could at least get some feedback about how it's working for everybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other than other than your group, Peace Corps, people who were in the pig program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't believe there were any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you seem to feel that it was the first of its kind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the society members and I, we did go to certain places. The University of Nonpoor, which was about maybe 50 kilometers from us, had an agricultural college. And we went there. We saw how they were raised. And when we were trying to get a line on what can we get some of these pigs once we get a place set up to keep them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you go in that kind of session, who took the lead in talking to people with the deferred to you and say, you know, our expert will discuss our needs? Or did they express it and say, well, I think it's going to help us?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.624416839301494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't believe there were any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you seem to feel that it was the first of its kind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the society members and I, we did go to certain places. The University of Nonpoor, which was about maybe 50 kilometers from us, had an agricultural college. And we went there. We saw how they were raised. And when we were trying to get a line on what can we get some of these pigs once we get a place set up to keep them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you go in that kind of session, who took the lead in talking to people with the deferred to you and say, you know, our expert will discuss our needs? Or did they express it and say, well, I think it's going to help us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, I think it was kind of we were all there to see what was going on in the agricultural college. And it I don't really remember that anybody took the lead. I do remember that, uh, I was dismayed because they really didn't have a good program there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the Ag College."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.3604631547794375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the society members and I, we did go to certain places. The University of Nonpoor, which was about maybe 50 kilometers from us, had an agricultural college. And we went there. We saw how they were raised. And when we were trying to get a line on what can we get some of these pigs once we get a place set up to keep them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you go in that kind of session, who took the lead in talking to people with the deferred to you and say, you know, our expert will discuss our needs? Or did they express it and say, well, I think it's going to help us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, I think it was kind of we were all there to see what was going on in the agricultural college. And it I don't really remember that anybody took the lead. I do remember that, uh, I was dismayed because they really didn't have a good program there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the Ag College."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were in-breeding their stock. And so the pigs that they did have available weren’t really healthy pigs. So, uh, and I did make that known to the Deshmukhs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, uh, but after six months, if you went out to that little village, was it still just an open field with a bunch of trees?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.178292394199374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, I think it was kind of we were all there to see what was going on in the agricultural college. And it I don't really remember that anybody took the lead. I do remember that, uh, I was dismayed because they really didn't have a good program there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the Ag College."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were in-breeding their stock. And so the pigs that they did have available weren’t really healthy pigs. So, uh, and I did make that known to the Deshmukhs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, uh, but after six months, if you went out to that little village, was it still just an open field with a bunch of trees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a slightly larger pit every time we went out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.975880437999304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were in-breeding their stock. And so the pigs that they did have available weren’t really healthy pigs. So, uh, and I did make that known to the Deshmukhs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, uh, but after six months, if you went out to that little village, was it still just an open field with a bunch of trees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a slightly larger pit every time we went out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the well. They’d have another maybe six, eight inches dug out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you never said, OK, I'm going to sit here and supervise. We're going to finish this well and then we'll go on to the next day."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.862089375554781, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a slightly larger pit every time we went out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the well. They’d have another maybe six, eight inches dug out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you never said, OK, I'm going to sit here and supervise. We're going to finish this well and then we'll go on to the next day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't see that that was my job to supervise it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, um, any point in the six months, first period when you thought to yourself, well, it's a lot of nonsense, I want to get out of here, I want to go home. I mean, what am I doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.735654861727536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the well. They’d have another maybe six, eight inches dug out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you never said, OK, I'm going to sit here and supervise. We're going to finish this well and then we'll go on to the next day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't see that that was my job to supervise it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, um, any point in the six months, first period when you thought to yourself, well, it's a lot of nonsense, I want to get out of here, I want to go home. I mean, what am I doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a lot of frustration here, and I wasn't the only Peace Corps volunteer to feel that some of the other guys and the other programs also had frustrations and not just picked people, not just to pick people. You know, there is an incredible bureaucracy in India, even more so than I think in America. And none of the training that any of us got really prepared us for dealing with that bureaucracy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And most of you did not have extensive experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.706283179697262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't see that that was my job to supervise it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, um, any point in the six months, first period when you thought to yourself, well, it's a lot of nonsense, I want to get out of here, I want to go home. I mean, what am I doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a lot of frustration here, and I wasn't the only Peace Corps volunteer to feel that some of the other guys and the other programs also had frustrations and not just picked people, not just to pick people. You know, there is an incredible bureaucracy in India, even more so than I think in America. And none of the training that any of us got really prepared us for dealing with that bureaucracy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And most of you did not have extensive experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So one of the things that I was trying to do on my own was that, when we finally did get ready to have pigs, we needed to have a way to feed them and water them and I was trying to make some feeders, some self feeders, that were big hoppers that we could put the feed in and then you could adjust where the flow was so that when the pig was hungry, you could go in and as he ate to a certain point, the feed would fall down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your own design or something?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.56253686633029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a lot of frustration here, and I wasn't the only Peace Corps volunteer to feel that some of the other guys and the other programs also had frustrations and not just picked people, not just to pick people. You know, there is an incredible bureaucracy in India, even more so than I think in America. And none of the training that any of us got really prepared us for dealing with that bureaucracy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And most of you did not have extensive experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So one of the things that I was trying to do on my own was that, when we finally did get ready to have pigs, we needed to have a way to feed them and water them and I was trying to make some feeders, some self feeders, that were big hoppers that we could put the feed in and then you could adjust where the flow was so that when the pig was hungry, you could go in and as he ate to a certain point, the feed would fall down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your own design or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was based on some designs that they showed up at the University of California at Chico. And then I was trying to come up with a bit of watering automatic water device based on a 50 gallon drum. So I was working on these there at the society headquarters. We had they had the office upstairs and downstairs. There was like an alley across from the alley with a sign painting shop where they used to make the signs for all the Indian movies. So I had been on one side of the alley working on my pig feeder and the other guys would be over there painting these beautiful canvases of Indian actors and actresses. The problem we were having was that we didn't have a place to put pigs right when we did have an opportunity to get pigs, we couldn't take them because we didn't have any place to keep them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you become aware? How would the opportunity arise?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.678916119997393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably about maybe nine months?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, just a related issue. What do you do with your free time? I mean, you know, what else? Any given day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I’d do is I go to the office and talk to them and see what's going on. If I had finished my construction projects, I'd go to the other Peace Corps volunteers and see what they were doing right. And sometimes we'd we go to one of their places where they were working. And we'd see if we could all help out. The there was a bishopric there and he found out he had a school and a church orphanage. And we tried to help them a little bit. They had some mechanical problems with some of the machinery. And we tried to help fix the machinery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any free time, I mean, weekends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lot of free time, I think probably more than I should have had. I did make a fairly good number of Indian friends. We would go out and drink tea and we talk about politics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Indian friends were from related to work or just where you lived?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.976573466663769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I’d do is I go to the office and talk to them and see what's going on. If I had finished my construction projects, I'd go to the other Peace Corps volunteers and see what they were doing right. And sometimes we'd we go to one of their places where they were working. And we'd see if we could all help out. The there was a bishopric there and he found out he had a school and a church orphanage. And we tried to help them a little bit. They had some mechanical problems with some of the machinery. And we tried to help fix the machinery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any free time, I mean, weekends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lot of free time, I think probably more than I should have had. I did make a fairly good number of Indian friends. We would go out and drink tea and we talk about politics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Indian friends were from related to work or just where you lived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just people we had met."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You keep saying we. But for the most part, it's just you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.418414962959742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lot of free time, I think probably more than I should have had. I did make a fairly good number of Indian friends. We would go out and drink tea and we talk about politics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Indian friends were from related to work or just where you lived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just people we had met."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You keep saying we. But for the most part, it's just you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say so. Yeah. For the most part, there was an informal network of the other Peace Corps. And I mean, we all knew each other. The Canadian couple, they were an older couple and they were really not part of our social circle. We would see them and talk to them. And just how they were doing that would be about it on a related topic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your first Thanksgiving and your first Christmas being in India?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.798238847733048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just people we had met."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You keep saying we. But for the most part, it's just you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say so. Yeah. For the most part, there was an informal network of the other Peace Corps. And I mean, we all knew each other. The Canadian couple, they were an older couple and they were really not part of our social circle. We would see them and talk to them. And just how they were doing that would be about it on a related topic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your first Thanksgiving and your first Christmas being in India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember my first Fourth of July because I was working on the on the feeding box. And as I was cleaning the wood down and I said, hey today’s the Fourth of July, it doesn’t mean anything to the people here. So I'm going back to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had already been there nine months, almost a year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.331376497481164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say so. Yeah. For the most part, there was an informal network of the other Peace Corps. And I mean, we all knew each other. The Canadian couple, they were an older couple and they were really not part of our social circle. We would see them and talk to them. And just how they were doing that would be about it on a related topic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your first Thanksgiving and your first Christmas being in India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember my first Fourth of July because I was working on the on the feeding box. And as I was cleaning the wood down and I said, hey today’s the Fourth of July, it doesn’t mean anything to the people here. So I'm going back to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had already been there nine months, almost a year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, I just don't think it was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Coming on toward the end of the first year, usually there's some kind of break you get you get vacation you can take or you get with the whole group gets called together by the Peace Corps for a sit around and talk kind of conference. Do you recall, you know, any anything between first and second year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.03486277497907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember my first Fourth of July because I was working on the on the feeding box. And as I was cleaning the wood down and I said, hey today’s the Fourth of July, it doesn’t mean anything to the people here. So I'm going back to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had already been there nine months, almost a year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, I just don't think it was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Coming on toward the end of the first year, usually there's some kind of break you get you get vacation you can take or you get with the whole group gets called together by the Peace Corps for a sit around and talk kind of conference. Do you recall, you know, any anything between first and second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know that we've been to Bombay. I had been Bombay a couple of times for Peace Corps related reasons. For like a seminar or just to check on us. We also have free time while we were at the conferences so that we go to movies, have dinner with each other or walk around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there's a much more comfortable environment than where you were living."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.816514194421188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, I just don't think it was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Coming on toward the end of the first year, usually there's some kind of break you get you get vacation you can take or you get with the whole group gets called together by the Peace Corps for a sit around and talk kind of conference. Do you recall, you know, any anything between first and second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know that we've been to Bombay. I had been Bombay a couple of times for Peace Corps related reasons. For like a seminar or just to check on us. We also have free time while we were at the conferences so that we go to movies, have dinner with each other or walk around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there's a much more comfortable environment than where you were living."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, because these guys, we can go to restaurants and actually order a hamburger or whatever. Meat was prepared in a Western fashion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you living a vegetarian diet when you're up in the town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.351682438245765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know that we've been to Bombay. I had been Bombay a couple of times for Peace Corps related reasons. For like a seminar or just to check on us. We also have free time while we were at the conferences so that we go to movies, have dinner with each other or walk around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there's a much more comfortable environment than where you were living."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, because these guys, we can go to restaurants and actually order a hamburger or whatever. Meat was prepared in a Western fashion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you living a vegetarian diet when you're up in the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. We had, once I had gotten to live with the other guys in the industrial estate. We had a cook, a Muslim who had been a sheet metal worker. And Gary and Phil were interviewing people to see if they could find a good cook. And he came up and said he was an excellent cook and he'd been cooking for years. And it turned out that he'd never cooked in his life. He was a sheet metal worker. And what would happen is he'd go home and ask his wife how to cook and then he come back and cook it for us, you know, and he would go into town maybe two or three times a week and buy goat. So the only meat that we ever had in any quantity at all in the village was pretty good. Chicken and eggs and. I don't think we had eggs. I don't remember chicken, but I know we could go to the restaurant and get chicken, chicken biriyani or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take any vacation during that period at the end of the first year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.72409159805085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, because these guys, we can go to restaurants and actually order a hamburger or whatever. Meat was prepared in a Western fashion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you living a vegetarian diet when you're up in the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. We had, once I had gotten to live with the other guys in the industrial estate. We had a cook, a Muslim who had been a sheet metal worker. And Gary and Phil were interviewing people to see if they could find a good cook. And he came up and said he was an excellent cook and he'd been cooking for years. And it turned out that he'd never cooked in his life. He was a sheet metal worker. And what would happen is he'd go home and ask his wife how to cook and then he come back and cook it for us, you know, and he would go into town maybe two or three times a week and buy goat. So the only meat that we ever had in any quantity at all in the village was pretty good. Chicken and eggs and. I don't think we had eggs. I don't remember chicken, but I know we could go to the restaurant and get chicken, chicken biriyani or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take any vacation during that period at the end of the first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I went to visit two guys north of Bombay. Who was just a little short hop up the coast and they were right on the coast. It was very nice to spend a few days up there and then. Later, can't remember which one of the other volunteers and I went to Goa, south of Bombay, it was Portuguese."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it still Portuguese?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.8045462200565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. We had, once I had gotten to live with the other guys in the industrial estate. We had a cook, a Muslim who had been a sheet metal worker. And Gary and Phil were interviewing people to see if they could find a good cook. And he came up and said he was an excellent cook and he'd been cooking for years. And it turned out that he'd never cooked in his life. He was a sheet metal worker. And what would happen is he'd go home and ask his wife how to cook and then he come back and cook it for us, you know, and he would go into town maybe two or three times a week and buy goat. So the only meat that we ever had in any quantity at all in the village was pretty good. Chicken and eggs and. I don't think we had eggs. I don't remember chicken, but I know we could go to the restaurant and get chicken, chicken biriyani or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take any vacation during that period at the end of the first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I went to visit two guys north of Bombay. Who was just a little short hop up the coast and they were right on the coast. It was very nice to spend a few days up there and then. Later, can't remember which one of the other volunteers and I went to Goa, south of Bombay, it was Portuguese."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it still Portuguese?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Portuguese then, and we probably spent about a week or so there. James Brown was making a movie and we almost got to see him. I almost ran into Shirley MacLaine one day in Bombay. My friend and I were doing something and he had to go one way and I went the other way. And just after he left me said, by the way, I just ran into Shirley MacLaine. So she was there doing some ashram thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you during that whole first year, did you get a sense that you could take part in or become aware of traditional Hindu practices or the religion?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.671718022284999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I went to visit two guys north of Bombay. Who was just a little short hop up the coast and they were right on the coast. It was very nice to spend a few days up there and then. Later, can't remember which one of the other volunteers and I went to Goa, south of Bombay, it was Portuguese."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it still Portuguese?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Portuguese then, and we probably spent about a week or so there. James Brown was making a movie and we almost got to see him. I almost ran into Shirley MacLaine one day in Bombay. My friend and I were doing something and he had to go one way and I went the other way. And just after he left me said, by the way, I just ran into Shirley MacLaine. So she was there doing some ashram thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you during that whole first year, did you get a sense that you could take part in or become aware of traditional Hindu practices or the religion?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were several festivals during the year. One, which was very popular was called Diwali Festival of Lights. And I don't really remember what it stood for, but the idea was that you would sprinkle colored powders on each other, to wish them a happy New Year or prosperity. And I have pictures of us just totally covered and it seemed like it was mostly red rubbed into our hair, rubbed into our faces. And you just go around the village knowing the people that you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the most part, people were friendly. I mean, did you encounter either indifference or hostility and any points?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.705824718870367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were several festivals during the year. One, which was very popular was called Diwali Festival of Lights. And I don't really remember what it stood for, but the idea was that you would sprinkle colored powders on each other, to wish them a happy New Year or prosperity. And I have pictures of us just totally covered and it seemed like it was mostly red rubbed into our hair, rubbed into our faces. And you just go around the village knowing the people that you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the most part, people were friendly. I mean, did you encounter either indifference or hostility and any points?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I ever will. Let me let me back up. It wasn't really hostility. At one time, I was in Bombay by myself and I had gone to a concert with one of my friends from the village. And later on he had to go some and I just kind of wandering around. I was staying with the two Peace Corps volunteers who were living there in Bombay, and I met these three or four Indian boys and we got to talking and they invited me back to their room so we could talk some more. And after we'd been there, there are a few other people who showed up and after we'd been there, talked a lot about America, about how I liked India and what they wanted to do in America. It was kind of like they, you know, you're really very stupid to come to a place like this by yourself. You could be hurt. I said, I think I'll go now. And they let me go. It could have been, who knows? But I never felt, with one exception, I never felt threatened by anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But being in the town you were, I mean, did small children follow you when you walk around or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They'd come up to you and just grab you by the legs and say, take me to America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the exposure at some sometimes can get very annoying or wearing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.217067554160947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They'd come up to you and just grab you by the legs and say, take me to America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the exposure at some sometimes can get very annoying or wearing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If they were nice kids, it wasn't bad. If they were. And we had a lot of nice kids. There was a little mud village around the industrial estate and some of the kids just love to see us, you know, and some of them were just really neat. And we couldn't always understand what they were saying, or at least we pretended not to understand what they were saying, but for the most part, seen the families of. It was very enjoyable. We did meet a number of people, even though we didn't know them, they would accept us on a social level. We were invited to a number of weddings where we never knew the people who were actually getting married. But because our friend, a friend who knew a friend was the cousin to the bride's first maid sister."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was like welcoming the visitors."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would go in there and it was just welcomed with open arms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you going into the second year? Sometimes people see the light at the end of the tunnel. They don't get involved with, tours to 20 months or two years, whatever it is, and sort of say, well, before I leave, I think I would like at least to get this far with whatever the task is I think I'm doing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.685630615734384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If they were nice kids, it wasn't bad. If they were. And we had a lot of nice kids. There was a little mud village around the industrial estate and some of the kids just love to see us, you know, and some of them were just really neat. And we couldn't always understand what they were saying, or at least we pretended not to understand what they were saying, but for the most part, seen the families of. It was very enjoyable. We did meet a number of people, even though we didn't know them, they would accept us on a social level. We were invited to a number of weddings where we never knew the people who were actually getting married. But because our friend, a friend who knew a friend was the cousin to the bride's first maid sister."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was like welcoming the visitors."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would go in there and it was just welcomed with open arms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you going into the second year? Sometimes people see the light at the end of the tunnel. They don't get involved with, tours to 20 months or two years, whatever it is, and sort of say, well, before I leave, I think I would like at least to get this far with whatever the task is I think I'm doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have liked to have gotten some pigs. That's what I was sent there for and I haven't accomplished that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was your second year like a continuation of the first? Was there no closure points or no achievement, real achievement points?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 15.20625623970487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would go in there and it was just welcomed with open arms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you going into the second year? Sometimes people see the light at the end of the tunnel. They don't get involved with, tours to 20 months or two years, whatever it is, and sort of say, well, before I leave, I think I would like at least to get this far with whatever the task is I think I'm doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have liked to have gotten some pigs. That's what I was sent there for and I haven't accomplished that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was your second year like a continuation of the first? Was there no closure points or no achievement, real achievement points?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We never really did get any buildings built for pigs. But I did visit my friends who not only had the pigs, they managed to ship them to Bombay. And I went to Bombay once to help the guys in the Bombay College of Veterinary College to see what they were doing and how they were doing it. And I got through the process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to take it through, we’ll talk about your medical crisis or whatever it was. But as you came to the end of the two years, what sense of accomplishment did you have?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.118062488560968, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have liked to have gotten some pigs. That's what I was sent there for and I haven't accomplished that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was your second year like a continuation of the first? Was there no closure points or no achievement, real achievement points?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We never really did get any buildings built for pigs. But I did visit my friends who not only had the pigs, they managed to ship them to Bombay. And I went to Bombay once to help the guys in the Bombay College of Veterinary College to see what they were doing and how they were doing it. And I got through the process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to take it through, we’ll talk about your medical crisis or whatever it was. But as you came to the end of the two years, what sense of accomplishment did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the biggest sense of accomplishment that I had was the fact that made so many good friends of one of those friends who was a Sikh, confided in me that he wanted to be a Christian and that he couldn't tell his family, you know, because otherwise they would kill him. I was trying to see if there was a way writing back to my family, to my church members, to see if there was a way in which they could help him come to America. I personally was not able to do much for him. But he did get to Canada and got into America and he settled in Colorado. Well, my wife and I met him after he got married about a year or two after he got married. And last I heard, he had three boys and he had his own optical shop in Montrose. And I think that was I had, I think a lot to do that we had an article in our local newspaper that interviewed him, and he's standing there in front of his optical shop and he's got a 1964 John Kennedy half dollar, which I have given him. And he said that's what kept him going, what John Kennedy stood for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All through this first year, second year, what were you communicating back to your family? I assume you were writing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.13118054284552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We never really did get any buildings built for pigs. But I did visit my friends who not only had the pigs, they managed to ship them to Bombay. And I went to Bombay once to help the guys in the Bombay College of Veterinary College to see what they were doing and how they were doing it. And I got through the process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to take it through, we’ll talk about your medical crisis or whatever it was. But as you came to the end of the two years, what sense of accomplishment did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the biggest sense of accomplishment that I had was the fact that made so many good friends of one of those friends who was a Sikh, confided in me that he wanted to be a Christian and that he couldn't tell his family, you know, because otherwise they would kill him. I was trying to see if there was a way writing back to my family, to my church members, to see if there was a way in which they could help him come to America. I personally was not able to do much for him. But he did get to Canada and got into America and he settled in Colorado. Well, my wife and I met him after he got married about a year or two after he got married. And last I heard, he had three boys and he had his own optical shop in Montrose. And I think that was I had, I think a lot to do that we had an article in our local newspaper that interviewed him, and he's standing there in front of his optical shop and he's got a 1964 John Kennedy half dollar, which I have given him. And he said that's what kept him going, what John Kennedy stood for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All through this first year, second year, what were you communicating back to your family? I assume you were writing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was trying to tell them what I was going through, the difference of things that. But I'm not sure they could understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it at any point in the first year, did you say to yourself, oh, my God, I'm an idiot? I said I wanted to come to India, here I am."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.256867269828355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the biggest sense of accomplishment that I had was the fact that made so many good friends of one of those friends who was a Sikh, confided in me that he wanted to be a Christian and that he couldn't tell his family, you know, because otherwise they would kill him. I was trying to see if there was a way writing back to my family, to my church members, to see if there was a way in which they could help him come to America. I personally was not able to do much for him. But he did get to Canada and got into America and he settled in Colorado. Well, my wife and I met him after he got married about a year or two after he got married. And last I heard, he had three boys and he had his own optical shop in Montrose. And I think that was I had, I think a lot to do that we had an article in our local newspaper that interviewed him, and he's standing there in front of his optical shop and he's got a 1964 John Kennedy half dollar, which I have given him. And he said that's what kept him going, what John Kennedy stood for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All through this first year, second year, what were you communicating back to your family? I assume you were writing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was trying to tell them what I was going through, the difference of things that. But I'm not sure they could understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it at any point in the first year, did you say to yourself, oh, my God, I'm an idiot? I said I wanted to come to India, here I am."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I said that myself almost every day. It was just so unique, so exotic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone keep your letters, by the way? I still have all of them.\n\nOK, now, you mentioned the communication situation. Tell me when it happened and what it was. You mentioned the time when you needed to be at a hostel."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.507630299809282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was trying to tell them what I was going through, the difference of things that. But I'm not sure they could understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it at any point in the first year, did you say to yourself, oh, my God, I'm an idiot? I said I wanted to come to India, here I am."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I said that myself almost every day. It was just so unique, so exotic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone keep your letters, by the way? I still have all of them.\n\nOK, now, you mentioned the communication situation. Tell me when it happened and what it was. You mentioned the time when you needed to be at a hostel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you generally about health care."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.89736699978809, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I said that myself almost every day. It was just so unique, so exotic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone keep your letters, by the way? I still have all of them.\n\nOK, now, you mentioned the communication situation. Tell me when it happened and what it was. You mentioned the time when you needed to be at a hostel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you generally about health care."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the most part, we at one point in time or another, all of us got sick with some type of dysentery, either because the food was so hot, you just had to drink the water, even though, you know, you shouldn't. Or you ate something that wasn't quite right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do Hindus not drink alcohol?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.1081855553201, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you generally about health care."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the most part, we at one point in time or another, all of us got sick with some type of dysentery, either because the food was so hot, you just had to drink the water, even though, you know, you shouldn't. Or you ate something that wasn't quite right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do Hindus not drink alcohol?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's interesting, you can get a license to drink alcohol in India if you are an alcoholic. And there were state run shops, we could go to buy liquor. And any American just had to say, I'm an American, and they would automatically give you this liquor license because everybody knows that Americans are alcoholics. I see it in the movies. Everything they know about America, they learn from movies. Every American is rich. Every American has a car. Every American has a watch. I heard that I don't know how many times. I never got a liquor license. But one time several of my friends said we're going to have a little party south of town. And they invited me and they invited all of the volunteers, but only one of the other guys and I went and we wrote our bikes out to this abandoned gas station about maybe six kilometers south of town. And it faced on the road. We had to go round the back and you climbed up the ladder and you were on this roof that had a high parapet around the front so that nobody could see you from the road, bikes in the back. And there were a few of our friends and the few people that they knew that were providing them with the liquor. And they hand us bottles that was called Lucky Tiger, and it looked and smelled like a lucky tiger here. And as they were passing it around before it got to us, one of them said, you know, we had this lucky tiger wedding at my cousin's last month. We were lucky, only three people died. And we just didn't even want to try that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't Shivas."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.490147165554185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What had happened is in India, typically you wear real thin leather sandals. And in the rainy season, these things get wet and very, very slippery. And I had gone to a movie with some friends of mine. And as we were coming out of the movie from upstairs, we were going downstairs and the steps were slick because it had rained while we were inside. And my feet went out from under me. And I landed on my butt. Two days later, I started pissing blood and I said, that's it, I'm going. It took me the better part of a day, 24 hours to get into India, go to the administrative office and say, hey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Bombay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Bombay. And then they put me in a hospital. Which I found was fascinating because it had people from all nationalities who were Swedish ship sailors, and if I if I hadn't felt so bad, I would have enjoyed it a lot more. And they gave me a bunch of tests and they gave me a variant to do to take x-rays. I thought it was fairly competent for an Indian hospital. I think it was all Indian, I don't remember any Europeans on the staff at all, and I was probably in the hospital for three or four days or one of my fellow co-workers from the village had come in to see how I was doing. And we had some friends who was an industrialist, who had two very Westernized children, and his daughter had come in but with Pete or she was there already and they met together in the hospital. And he and I probably spent another three or four days after I got out of the hospital recuperating at my friend's apartment in Bombay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps friend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a Peace Corps doctor on staff in Bombay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.2112746283935385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Bombay. And then they put me in a hospital. Which I found was fascinating because it had people from all nationalities who were Swedish ship sailors, and if I if I hadn't felt so bad, I would have enjoyed it a lot more. And they gave me a bunch of tests and they gave me a variant to do to take x-rays. I thought it was fairly competent for an Indian hospital. I think it was all Indian, I don't remember any Europeans on the staff at all, and I was probably in the hospital for three or four days or one of my fellow co-workers from the village had come in to see how I was doing. And we had some friends who was an industrialist, who had two very Westernized children, and his daughter had come in but with Pete or she was there already and they met together in the hospital. And he and I probably spent another three or four days after I got out of the hospital recuperating at my friend's apartment in Bombay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps friend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a Peace Corps doctor on staff in Bombay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. If there was, I never saw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. And so whatever had gone on with your insides?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.9014162537705985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps friend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a Peace Corps doctor on staff in Bombay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. If there was, I never saw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. And so whatever had gone on with your insides?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently when I fell, I ripped something loose in one of my kidneys or my bladder. And that's why I was peeing blood. And you just the rest for about a week, let it heal up. But it was extremely painful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you sort of were on your own for X number of hours, getting the train down?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.668240281967331, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. If there was, I never saw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. And so whatever had gone on with your insides?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently when I fell, I ripped something loose in one of my kidneys or my bladder. And that's why I was peeing blood. And you just the rest for about a week, let it heal up. But it was extremely painful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you sort of were on your own for X number of hours, getting the train down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally on my own. Yeah, I, I remember I was in such pain. I couldn't sit, I couldn't lay down. I couldn't stand. Yet I had 14 hours of that on the train before I got to Bombay. I was ready to give it up right then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you did come out of the hospital and you say maybe it's time to go home or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.5202669799637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently when I fell, I ripped something loose in one of my kidneys or my bladder. And that's why I was peeing blood. And you just the rest for about a week, let it heal up. But it was extremely painful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you sort of were on your own for X number of hours, getting the train down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally on my own. Yeah, I, I remember I was in such pain. I couldn't sit, I couldn't lay down. I couldn't stand. Yet I had 14 hours of that on the train before I got to Bombay. I was ready to give it up right then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you did come out of the hospital and you say maybe it's time to go home or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By that time I was feeling OK and I knew what had happened to me. And I said, well, I'm just going to make sure I don't wear my sandals in the rain again, or get sandals with that rubber soles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it seems that like you were there almost two years that your time runs out. It's not like you say, OK, Project X is done and I've set the groundwork for Project Y. Did you did you have that sense?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.518848123411976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By that time I was feeling OK and I knew what had happened to me. And I said, well, I'm just going to make sure I don't wear my sandals in the rain again, or get sandals with that rubber soles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it seems that like you were there almost two years that your time runs out. It's not like you say, OK, Project X is done and I've set the groundwork for Project Y. Did you did you have that sense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not have that sense. Looking back on it, I wish I had had the strength to go live underneath that tree and build the pig pen myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really regret not doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but as you came near leaving, usually there's a termination conference when your group gets back together and sort of processes the experience. Do you recall that at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.354275692679973, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not have that sense. Looking back on it, I wish I had had the strength to go live underneath that tree and build the pig pen myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really regret not doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but as you came near leaving, usually there's a termination conference when your group gets back together and sort of processes the experience. Do you recall that at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no, because I left early because I was having problems with my knee. I had a bad knee from early, early years on. I been riding a bicycle and either I ran into a water buffalo, or it ran into me or something, but my knee really started to bother me. And at that time, there was nobody in the Indian hospital who could heal that kind of a bone pain. So what they did is they sent me back to Washington on a medical leave. For 30 days to be evaluated and to see what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is during the second year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.06030632519997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really regret not doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but as you came near leaving, usually there's a termination conference when your group gets back together and sort of processes the experience. Do you recall that at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no, because I left early because I was having problems with my knee. I had a bad knee from early, early years on. I been riding a bicycle and either I ran into a water buffalo, or it ran into me or something, but my knee really started to bother me. And at that time, there was nobody in the Indian hospital who could heal that kind of a bone pain. So what they did is they sent me back to Washington on a medical leave. For 30 days to be evaluated and to see what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is during the second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was near the end of my second year and the bureaucracy in Washington took so long to get me in and get me evaluated, that by the time they finally figured out what was wrong with me, they said my 30 days have expired and I couldn't go back to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had not left understanding that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.844784805777744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no, because I left early because I was having problems with my knee. I had a bad knee from early, early years on. I been riding a bicycle and either I ran into a water buffalo, or it ran into me or something, but my knee really started to bother me. And at that time, there was nobody in the Indian hospital who could heal that kind of a bone pain. So what they did is they sent me back to Washington on a medical leave. For 30 days to be evaluated and to see what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is during the second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was near the end of my second year and the bureaucracy in Washington took so long to get me in and get me evaluated, that by the time they finally figured out what was wrong with me, they said my 30 days have expired and I couldn't go back to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had not left understanding that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had left with the understanding I was going to go back after I got treatment for my knee, which is where my duffel bag was, which is why it wound up at my friend's house, was because he said, well, I'm not just going to ship it home. So I did in fact, get an early discharge because of my knee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you finally realized that you weren't going back and what was your sense of, you know, had it been worthwhile joining the Peace Corps and what did you look to in the future?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.684919513305857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had left with the understanding I was going to go back after I got treatment for my knee, which is where my duffel bag was, which is why it wound up at my friend's house, was because he said, well, I'm not just going to ship it home. So I did in fact, get an early discharge because of my knee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you finally realized that you weren't going back and what was your sense of, you know, had it been worthwhile joining the Peace Corps and what did you look to in the future?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know. I was very frustrated with the bureaucracy, both American and Indian. And I did have a, what do you call it when you have the interview, when you when you leave?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Termination interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did have one of those and I tried to express this in Washington, in Washington, trying to express my frustration. And, you know, why don't you tell us these things while we were going through training? You know, it really would have helped if we had known about these, just like went over their heads. They didn't even want to know that. They didn't want to hear about it. You know, I don't know what you're talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know who had been responsible for developing the program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.761021681450952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know. I was very frustrated with the bureaucracy, both American and Indian. And I did have a, what do you call it when you have the interview, when you when you leave?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Termination interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did have one of those and I tried to express this in Washington, in Washington, trying to express my frustration. And, you know, why don't you tell us these things while we were going through training? You know, it really would have helped if we had known about these, just like went over their heads. They didn't even want to know that. They didn't want to hear about it. You know, I don't know what you're talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know who had been responsible for developing the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. Things happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you really felt that people hadn't done their homework and putting you there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.956690757167724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did have one of those and I tried to express this in Washington, in Washington, trying to express my frustration. And, you know, why don't you tell us these things while we were going through training? You know, it really would have helped if we had known about these, just like went over their heads. They didn't even want to know that. They didn't want to hear about it. You know, I don't know what you're talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know who had been responsible for developing the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. Things happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you really felt that people hadn't done their homework and putting you there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought they could have been a lot better to prepare us more if we had known about some of the processes. Instead of concentrating on here's how you raise a pig, here's how you feed it, here's how you slaughter it. If they had said, you're going to be involved with this program and here's how you get your food, here's how you get your vets for your pigs, and here's how you get your medicine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned good old Steve from Connecticut somehow raised pigs or got some pigs. What was the difference?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.17410084129747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. Things happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you really felt that people hadn't done their homework and putting you there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought they could have been a lot better to prepare us more if we had known about some of the processes. Instead of concentrating on here's how you raise a pig, here's how you feed it, here's how you slaughter it. If they had said, you're going to be involved with this program and here's how you get your food, here's how you get your vets for your pigs, and here's how you get your medicine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned good old Steve from Connecticut somehow raised pigs or got some pigs. What was the difference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mentioned the guy from Pfizer, Pfizer chemical. He was stationed where he worked near where Steve worked. So he was kind of like Steve’s liaison. He could get stuff for Steve because he was there. I was two, three hundred kilometers away. And I'd see him, I think I only saw him three times in the entire time I was there, but Steve would see him probably once or twice a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there much of a push from the family, the Deshmukhs, to get things done or they can content to let it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.526778712552744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought they could have been a lot better to prepare us more if we had known about some of the processes. Instead of concentrating on here's how you raise a pig, here's how you feed it, here's how you slaughter it. If they had said, you're going to be involved with this program and here's how you get your food, here's how you get your vets for your pigs, and here's how you get your medicine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned good old Steve from Connecticut somehow raised pigs or got some pigs. What was the difference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mentioned the guy from Pfizer, Pfizer chemical. He was stationed where he worked near where Steve worked. So he was kind of like Steve’s liaison. He could get stuff for Steve because he was there. I was two, three hundred kilometers away. And I'd see him, I think I only saw him three times in the entire time I was there, but Steve would see him probably once or twice a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there much of a push from the family, the Deshmukhs, to get things done or they can content to let it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were content because as long as they had their money in there, they were going to get their money back no matter what happened. However, the program was set up right. It was economic development for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't like they felt the commitment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.029754125058604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mentioned the guy from Pfizer, Pfizer chemical. He was stationed where he worked near where Steve worked. So he was kind of like Steve’s liaison. He could get stuff for Steve because he was there. I was two, three hundred kilometers away. And I'd see him, I think I only saw him three times in the entire time I was there, but Steve would see him probably once or twice a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there much of a push from the family, the Deshmukhs, to get things done or they can content to let it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were content because as long as they had their money in there, they were going to get their money back no matter what happened. However, the program was set up right. It was economic development for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't like they felt the commitment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't get the impression that they were committed to raising pigs. Yeah, I got the impression they were there for the money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that that's part of the slippage, too. And, you know, so now finally, when you realize your Peace Corps service is over, what where are you going next?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.47750458339845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were content because as long as they had their money in there, they were going to get their money back no matter what happened. However, the program was set up right. It was economic development for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't like they felt the commitment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't get the impression that they were committed to raising pigs. Yeah, I got the impression they were there for the money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that that's part of the slippage, too. And, you know, so now finally, when you realize your Peace Corps service is over, what where are you going next?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know what I was going to do. They put me up in a hotel, motel, hotel in Washington. I was getting fourteen dollars a day for living expenses. And of course, Washington, D.C. Fourteen dollars just doesn't cover much. Go out and buy a coke and breakfast that takes care of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one in your family came to try to visit while you were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.975005092664944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't get the impression that they were committed to raising pigs. Yeah, I got the impression they were there for the money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that that's part of the slippage, too. And, you know, so now finally, when you realize your Peace Corps service is over, what where are you going next?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know what I was going to do. They put me up in a hotel, motel, hotel in Washington. I was getting fourteen dollars a day for living expenses. And of course, Washington, D.C. Fourteen dollars just doesn't cover much. Go out and buy a coke and breakfast that takes care of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one in your family came to try to visit while you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because that was two thirds of the way across the country. And I was thinking, well they're going to give me a certain amount of money because your termination allowance, whatever it was. I'll just buy a car and drive back to this back home. I’ll just get a job in D.C. and, you know, in a restaurant when the dishwasher had a big fight with the with the cook, the dishwasher walked out. Hey, you guys need a dishwasher, I’m available? Well, come back tomorrow and talk to the owner. So if they said, yeah, come to work right then, then I probably would have stayed in Washington and find a place to live. By that time, I think I was ready to go back and to continue my education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you stand with the draft as you came home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.30556121407216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know what I was going to do. They put me up in a hotel, motel, hotel in Washington. I was getting fourteen dollars a day for living expenses. And of course, Washington, D.C. Fourteen dollars just doesn't cover much. Go out and buy a coke and breakfast that takes care of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one in your family came to try to visit while you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because that was two thirds of the way across the country. And I was thinking, well they're going to give me a certain amount of money because your termination allowance, whatever it was. I'll just buy a car and drive back to this back home. I’ll just get a job in D.C. and, you know, in a restaurant when the dishwasher had a big fight with the with the cook, the dishwasher walked out. Hey, you guys need a dishwasher, I’m available? Well, come back tomorrow and talk to the owner. So if they said, yeah, come to work right then, then I probably would have stayed in Washington and find a place to live. By that time, I think I was ready to go back and to continue my education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you stand with the draft as you came home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it's interesting point because I finally did not get my readjustment allowance. I went home, they gave me a train ticket to a plane ticket to go home. I went home and a few weeks later, I got my readjustment allowance. And I said to myself, well, if I don't do something, the draft is going to get me. I've got this bad knee. And they sent me home from India. I'll just go fly free. They’ll turn me down after I get my physical. Oh, they didn't. Three years later, after I got out of the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you enlisted."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.672845793413511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because that was two thirds of the way across the country. And I was thinking, well they're going to give me a certain amount of money because your termination allowance, whatever it was. I'll just buy a car and drive back to this back home. I’ll just get a job in D.C. and, you know, in a restaurant when the dishwasher had a big fight with the with the cook, the dishwasher walked out. Hey, you guys need a dishwasher, I’m available? Well, come back tomorrow and talk to the owner. So if they said, yeah, come to work right then, then I probably would have stayed in Washington and find a place to live. By that time, I think I was ready to go back and to continue my education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you stand with the draft as you came home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it's interesting point because I finally did not get my readjustment allowance. I went home, they gave me a train ticket to a plane ticket to go home. I went home and a few weeks later, I got my readjustment allowance. And I said to myself, well, if I don't do something, the draft is going to get me. I've got this bad knee. And they sent me home from India. I'll just go fly free. They’ll turn me down after I get my physical. Oh, they didn't. Three years later, after I got out of the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you enlisted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I enlisted thinking that I would not be taken because of my knee. And but the nice thing is that the Army had to operate on my knee and I've been getting disability ever since. 10 percent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you go to Vietnam or not?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.525384214903902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it's interesting point because I finally did not get my readjustment allowance. I went home, they gave me a train ticket to a plane ticket to go home. I went home and a few weeks later, I got my readjustment allowance. And I said to myself, well, if I don't do something, the draft is going to get me. I've got this bad knee. And they sent me home from India. I'll just go fly free. They’ll turn me down after I get my physical. Oh, they didn't. Three years later, after I got out of the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you enlisted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I enlisted thinking that I would not be taken because of my knee. And but the nice thing is that the Army had to operate on my knee and I've been getting disability ever since. 10 percent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you go to Vietnam or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was in Germany for two years. I took almost a year of training in Fort Monmouth, New Jersey, thirty five miles south of the city of New York. Signal Corps. And we always had the joke. The artillery for their colors had crossed cannons and the infantry had crossed rifles. Signal Corps had crossed wires. You know where you're going to go and you've got some to offer, go for it. It's an experience that's a once in a lifetime experience. As a matter of fact, one of the guys that I worked with for the city, I work for the city for twenty three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The city being Tucson?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.472649127671001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I enlisted thinking that I would not be taken because of my knee. And but the nice thing is that the Army had to operate on my knee and I've been getting disability ever since. 10 percent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you go to Vietnam or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was in Germany for two years. I took almost a year of training in Fort Monmouth, New Jersey, thirty five miles south of the city of New York. Signal Corps. And we always had the joke. The artillery for their colors had crossed cannons and the infantry had crossed rifles. Signal Corps had crossed wires. You know where you're going to go and you've got some to offer, go for it. It's an experience that's a once in a lifetime experience. As a matter of fact, one of the guys that I worked with for the city, I work for the city for twenty three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The city being Tucson?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The city of Tucson and a friend of mine, we probably worked there as long as I had. And I just found out that he'd finally gotten fed up with the bureaucracy and quit and joined the Peace Corps. I have no idea where he's going, when he's going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's still there, it's still possible."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.302943475190002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was in Germany for two years. I took almost a year of training in Fort Monmouth, New Jersey, thirty five miles south of the city of New York. Signal Corps. And we always had the joke. The artillery for their colors had crossed cannons and the infantry had crossed rifles. Signal Corps had crossed wires. You know where you're going to go and you've got some to offer, go for it. It's an experience that's a once in a lifetime experience. As a matter of fact, one of the guys that I worked with for the city, I work for the city for twenty three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The city being Tucson?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The city of Tucson and a friend of mine, we probably worked there as long as I had. And I just found out that he'd finally gotten fed up with the bureaucracy and quit and joined the Peace Corps. I have no idea where he's going, when he's going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's still there, it's still possible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even know what countries are still involved with the Peace Corps these days. I would imagine it's primarily out of Africa now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a lot. It's all over the place."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.114381639100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The city of Tucson and a friend of mine, we probably worked there as long as I had. And I just found out that he'd finally gotten fed up with the bureaucracy and quit and joined the Peace Corps. I have no idea where he's going, when he's going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's still there, it's still possible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even know what countries are still involved with the Peace Corps these days. I would imagine it's primarily out of Africa now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a lot. It's all over the place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I know India had to drop the Peace Corps right back in the mid ‘80s, I think it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did mention that you had some continuing contact with the Sikh who came here. Did you have any other continuing contacts?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.015979599000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even know what countries are still involved with the Peace Corps these days. I would imagine it's primarily out of Africa now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a lot. It's all over the place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I know India had to drop the Peace Corps right back in the mid ‘80s, I think it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did mention that you had some continuing contact with the Sikh who came here. Did you have any other continuing contacts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had another friend who is a watchmaker by trade. And we wrote back and forth for a while and he sent me the picture of his wedding where he and his bride had gotten married. And after that, somehow, well, when I when I got out of the Army, my mom and dad had gotten divorced and she moved to California to be near her family. And when I lost my home address, I think I lost a lot of contact. I never was able to pick back up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever been tempted to go back to India?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.017755110000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I know India had to drop the Peace Corps right back in the mid ‘80s, I think it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did mention that you had some continuing contact with the Sikh who came here. Did you have any other continuing contacts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had another friend who is a watchmaker by trade. And we wrote back and forth for a while and he sent me the picture of his wedding where he and his bride had gotten married. And after that, somehow, well, when I when I got out of the Army, my mom and dad had gotten divorced and she moved to California to be near her family. And when I lost my home address, I think I lost a lot of contact. I never was able to pick back up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever been tempted to go back to India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'd love to go back to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you haven't."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.019727900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had another friend who is a watchmaker by trade. And we wrote back and forth for a while and he sent me the picture of his wedding where he and his bride had gotten married. And after that, somehow, well, when I when I got out of the Army, my mom and dad had gotten divorced and she moved to California to be near her family. And when I lost my home address, I think I lost a lot of contact. I never was able to pick back up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever been tempted to go back to India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'd love to go back to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you haven't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Haven't yet. But my daughter now is 29."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think they finally got some pigs in the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.133031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'd love to go back to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you haven't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Haven't yet. But my daughter now is 29."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think they finally got some pigs in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to go back and see if they ever got a piggery going there. I’d love to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But be prepared to be disappointed. Who knows."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.925590000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Haven't yet. But my daughter now is 29."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think they finally got some pigs in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to go back and see if they ever got a piggery going there. I’d love to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But be prepared to be disappointed. Who knows."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My daughter and her husband got married out of country. They were at the point where they were trying to decide how big a wedding, who you invite, blah, blah, blah. And he said, to hell with it. But so they did. They went to Scotland, got married overseas. And so every year for their wedding anniversary, they go to a different country. So we're talking about maybe, not this coming year, but maybe the next year, going to India for their wedding anniversary. There's a travel bureau that has motorcycle tours of the Himalayas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How high up can you go on a motorcycle?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.6951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to go back and see if they ever got a piggery going there. I’d love to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But be prepared to be disappointed. Who knows."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My daughter and her husband got married out of country. They were at the point where they were trying to decide how big a wedding, who you invite, blah, blah, blah. And he said, to hell with it. But so they did. They went to Scotland, got married overseas. And so every year for their wedding anniversary, they go to a different country. So we're talking about maybe, not this coming year, but maybe the next year, going to India for their wedding anniversary. There's a travel bureau that has motorcycle tours of the Himalayas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How high up can you go on a motorcycle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently pretty far. They provide the motorcycle. And since we've all got motorcycles now, we thought that would be a fantastic thing. And I would like to take a couple of three, maybe even months after that. Just go back and see all the things that I told myself I was going to see that I never got around to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you couldn't play on a return trip touring around India because you suddenly came out with the knee problem and you were in Washington and didn't have the chance to go back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 7.439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My daughter and her husband got married out of country. They were at the point where they were trying to decide how big a wedding, who you invite, blah, blah, blah. And he said, to hell with it. But so they did. They went to Scotland, got married overseas. And so every year for their wedding anniversary, they go to a different country. So we're talking about maybe, not this coming year, but maybe the next year, going to India for their wedding anniversary. There's a travel bureau that has motorcycle tours of the Himalayas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How high up can you go on a motorcycle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently pretty far. They provide the motorcycle. And since we've all got motorcycles now, we thought that would be a fantastic thing. And I would like to take a couple of three, maybe even months after that. Just go back and see all the things that I told myself I was going to see that I never got around to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you couldn't play on a return trip touring around India because you suddenly came out with the knee problem and you were in Washington and didn't have the chance to go back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My dream at the time was once I got back to India, I'll see if I could get out in India and then travel overland to Europe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in the ‘60s, that was fairly common. I mean, people would terminate in their country and then you could get a plane ticket with twenty five stops and the opportunities were there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently pretty far. They provide the motorcycle. And since we've all got motorcycles now, we thought that would be a fantastic thing. And I would like to take a couple of three, maybe even months after that. Just go back and see all the things that I told myself I was going to see that I never got around to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you couldn't play on a return trip touring around India because you suddenly came out with the knee problem and you were in Washington and didn't have the chance to go back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My dream at the time was once I got back to India, I'll see if I could get out in India and then travel overland to Europe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in the ‘60s, that was fairly common. I mean, people would terminate in their country and then you could get a plane ticket with twenty five stops and the opportunities were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did manage to do that in the Army. I had been discharged from Germany and they gave me a year to go do what I wanted to do and I could still get a ticket back home. And I think, I think I travel for about four or five months. And then I had enrolled at the University of New Mexico. About three weeks before I was due to enroll, I went in, got my ticket, sold the vehicle I had been travelling in to a friend of mine. And but I did have that period of time. I wish I had been able to do that for me. I've always wanted to go over the Khyber Pass and the reason that just strikes me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s not a healthy place to be right now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My dream at the time was once I got back to India, I'll see if I could get out in India and then travel overland to Europe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in the ‘60s, that was fairly common. I mean, people would terminate in their country and then you could get a plane ticket with twenty five stops and the opportunities were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did manage to do that in the Army. I had been discharged from Germany and they gave me a year to go do what I wanted to do and I could still get a ticket back home. And I think, I think I travel for about four or five months. And then I had enrolled at the University of New Mexico. About three weeks before I was due to enroll, I went in, got my ticket, sold the vehicle I had been travelling in to a friend of mine. And but I did have that period of time. I wish I had been able to do that for me. I've always wanted to go over the Khyber Pass and the reason that just strikes me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s not a healthy place to be right now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right now it's not a good place. But back in the sixties, yes, it would have been a fantastic thing to go over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else for the archives that you'd like to mention related to Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00223:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did manage to do that in the Army. I had been discharged from Germany and they gave me a year to go do what I wanted to do and I could still get a ticket back home. And I think, I think I travel for about four or five months. And then I had enrolled at the University of New Mexico. About three weeks before I was due to enroll, I went in, got my ticket, sold the vehicle I had been travelling in to a friend of mine. And but I did have that period of time. I wish I had been able to do that for me. I've always wanted to go over the Khyber Pass and the reason that just strikes me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s not a healthy place to be right now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right now it's not a good place. But back in the sixties, yes, it would have been a fantastic thing to go over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else for the archives that you'd like to mention related to Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, my advice to anybody going into the Peace Corps is make sure you have enough time to really explore the country itself, not just be there to do the job that you think you sent there to do all right. The thing that strikes me that somebody told us during our training or during our flowery speeches was that we were America's goodwill ambassadors. And I think that that is far more important than raising a pig or two. And I think that by going around the country and seeing the country and being with people, you're fulfilling that job. And I did manage to spend a lot of time with friends and acquaintances in India, going to places, Bishop gave me a ride up to the hill station one time, which I thought was kind of interesting because he didn't try to convert me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But and that's the second goal of the Peace Corps is, is to allow people in other cultures to become aware of Americans."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.605138132660137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just had a few things to follow up on, to start with. You talked in your first oral history about leaving the Air Force and going to work for Hughes [Aircraft Company] on the Surveyor Project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were working on analysis. If you could tell us something about what that entailed and your duties on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the title is pretty much self-descriptive, but specifically what I was doing is the Surveyor was assumed by Hughes, control was assumed by Hughes once it was inserted into orbit, in the Earth orbit or immediately upon separation from the booster, basically. So we were responsible for controlling the flight to the Moon and landing on the Moon.\\n\\n The two major events involved in that, of course, were the midcourse correction activities and the terminal descent. Specifically what I worked on was a lot of the work associated with what we called the nonstandard operations associated with those two events, what could go wrong, what would be the response to it. It was basically malfunction procedures. Had I been doing the same thing here at Johnson, we would have called them malfunction procedures. I think we called them nonstandard procedures or something like that out there.\\n\\n So that’s basically what I worked on. I was responsible for developing the contingency operations activities for the Surveyor. That’s what I did for two years, basically.\\n\\n When I went to work on the project, I thought we were closer to launch then we were, but it turned out this thing was launched by an Atlas Centaur. Centaur had some development difficulties, and we ended up slipping for basically a couple of years. They ended up having performance problems. Surveyor had been designed initially for 2500-pound weight, roughly 2500 pounds. Turned out they couldn’t launch that much to the Moon, so we had to knock about 400 pounds out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty significant."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.685316211320046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I thought that was very nice. That was neat. Good to see that happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Well, you had mentioned in the first interview that it was a difficult decision for you to come to NASA and to leave the Surveyor Project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because working for Ed Pfund, we only had staffed up to about eight or nine people. I was his kind of number two guy there, and we had approval to go to like thirty right off the bat. So I walked away from a pretty good opportunity with Hughes.\\n\\n But in terms of job satisfaction, this was the place to be, and I don’t regret that. In terms of financial rewards, I’d probably have made more money at Hughes. In fact that’s, what they told me, “We’ll always pay you more money than the government will ever pay you,” and they’re right. But at the same time, this was the place to be, so I don’t regret it.\\n\\n In fact, I consider myself pretty lucky to have worked at JSC in the time frame that we worked there. It would be a much more difficult choice nowadays, I mean, for a fellow who was at my age at that time. It doesn’t look as bright here as it did in those days. But, no, I don’t regret coming down here. Enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. It certainly is a very different world nowadays."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, yeah. It’s very much different than it was when we came down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we talked a lot in the first interview about the simulations area that you moved into, which seems now it was very closely connected with what you had done on the Surveyor Project. I wanted to go in a little more detail on some of that simulations work, some of the different types that there were and maybe if you had any examples or particular memories of a particular simulation where something might have—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.796914917909882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I notice [in your notes] you broke them out into simulated remote site exercises and launch aborts and reentries and everything. But the best way to look at this thing, if you’re having trouble figuring out what in the world was going on there, all the simulations involved either the launch, the on-orbit, or the entry mission phase. But depending on who you were training, it was either a simulated remote site exercise or a simulated network simulation or a network simulation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, we had these simulated remote sites. So what we did in simulated remote sites—remember also in those days we were still deploying teams of people to all these remote sites, all these—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the communications, at least in terms of data flow communications, was not good enough, was not of a sufficient capacity to allow you to do a good vehicle analysis back here. You had be on the other site out here to do this.\\n\\n We didn’t have TDRS [Tracking and Data Relay Satellite] satellites. We didn’t have full-time coverage. Anyway, the simulated remote site exercises were designed to be just exactly that. It was the remote site team, and it was practice for them contained within their own team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So just their aspect of—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.749673890166642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn’t make that transition quite so easily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They liked to look at bits. They did in those days. So anyway that’s—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was mostly a data flow exercise. The training took place when we could close the loop on the simulation system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the more detailed anomalies would be—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.832970989074047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They liked to look at bits. They did in those days. So anyway that’s—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was mostly a data flow exercise. The training took place when we could close the loop on the simulation system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the more detailed anomalies would be—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were in the sim net sims."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "— really worked out in this."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.511158343353216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The network simulations, the way we generated those tapes was by recording sim net sims."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would record those. You would run one that was fairly nominal. We called them nominal. But it meant that you didn’t have many problems. That’s what we normally use for network simulations, something that didn’t have a lot of problems to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they’re data flow exercises."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so both the sim net sims and the network sims were for the entire mission then? Would those be run continually from start to finish?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.37180042389286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they’re data flow exercises."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so both the sim net sims and the network sims were for the entire mission then? Would those be run continually from start to finish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes they were. We have run twenty-four-hour-long network simulations, run them around the clock, just to exercise the handovers and everything. But, yeah, they are mostly full mission. In fact, we used to call them full mission simulations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That term was used at times. In fact, I think we called the simulator a full mission simulator. I think that’s what we named it. But most of the exercises, launch sims, of course, you run ten minutes and you turn around and you try to run as many as you can in a day. Entry sims are sort of the same kind of thing, but they are a little bit longer, forty minutes or so. So you can run a half dozen in a day. Launch sims you could do more, though, if the crew can tolerate it.\\n\\n But sim net sims are typically one a day. Sometimes you might run a four-hour model, but usually they’re eight hours to last all day. And occasionally you run them twenty-four hours to exercise the team handover operations. We used to do that quite frequently. Well, once or twice a mission we would do those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the frequency of—I know you’re not going to recall the exact scheduling, but of, say, how many times in a week or how many hours in a week might be dedicated to sims?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.536077399029987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we’d run three or four days a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You might run two sim net sims in a week. You might run a day of launch aborts and maybe a day of entry, all in one week. It was very common. Things were tight schedule, remember. We were flying every two months, remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very tight. It was very tight. We were still very much rushed. But, yeah, we didn’t like to train every day, because people do need to do some work. They need to go back in the office and react and get ready for next week’s simulation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Work through some of the problems they encountered."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.661823949419736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very tight. It was very tight. We were still very much rushed. But, yeah, we didn’t like to train every day, because people do need to do some work. They need to go back in the office and react and get ready for next week’s simulation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Work through some of the problems they encountered."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But with the team shifting and everything that was available with the flight control team, you’re talking about maybe five teams of people, you see, flight controllers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that many on launches or entries, you might have two teams or maybe just one occasionally. But you might have three or four teams of orbit people. So if you run a couple days of simulation a week, somebody is still not getting as much time as he would like to get. But we ran quite frequently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said that basically this pattern of simulations that was set up at this time is essentially what they’re still working with today?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 20.76706737890154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They probably are emphasizing the added-on components or the elements as they come up each flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re probably emphasizing the assembly part more so than the payload activities. The assembly thing has to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then the payload stuff ultimately will have to work, but right now it doesn’t have to right now. They’ll get to a point where they’ll be emphasizing payloads probably or either no training at all. It may get to the point where the crew just goes up and does it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was Apollo then essentially similar as well to Gemini?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.194071667431354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is because Gene, in particular, and I think Glynn Lunney to a major extent, always felt that the simulation exercise was really a development tool. It wasn’t really just a training thing. It was a development tool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To help them develop their processes and procedures and then validate them so a major component of the simulation planning associated with that.\\n\\n In fact, if you look at the Shuttle in those days, the Shuttle simulator was really the first opportunity for the crew to interact with the onboard software. That’s where the crew really first saw the software and, more importantly, where the software first saw the crew. A lot of problems were found in the Shuttle simulator in the flight software that got reported back and were worked out because they were able to do that. So that’s an example of how the environment really is a developmental environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It helps in that regard. A lot of that went on. Probably still does. Maybe not to the extent that it did in those days, because I don’t think the simulators are as good. I don’t think the Space Station simulator, for example, represents as much of the Space Station as the Shuttle simulator did of the Shuttle, if you know what I’m saying. It’s not as hi-fi [high fidelity]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having mentioned—sorry, go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.660079630479283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To help them develop their processes and procedures and then validate them so a major component of the simulation planning associated with that.\\n\\n In fact, if you look at the Shuttle in those days, the Shuttle simulator was really the first opportunity for the crew to interact with the onboard software. That’s where the crew really first saw the software and, more importantly, where the software first saw the crew. A lot of problems were found in the Shuttle simulator in the flight software that got reported back and were worked out because they were able to do that. So that’s an example of how the environment really is a developmental environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It helps in that regard. A lot of that went on. Probably still does. Maybe not to the extent that it did in those days, because I don’t think the simulators are as good. I don’t think the Space Station simulator, for example, represents as much of the Space Station as the Shuttle simulator did of the Shuttle, if you know what I’m saying. It’s not as hi-fi [high fidelity]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having mentioned—sorry, go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just going to say I’m sure those guys are over there trying to do the best they can with it, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes.\\n\\n Having mentioned the crew and talking about all the various simulations, as you said, there was a role of astro sim, but there were times that the actual flight crew participated in the simulations."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.319543713186004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the guys who were a couple of flights downstream were always more than anxious to volunteer for any simulator time they could find. You really couldn’t justify letting somebody who wasn’t going to fly go spend time in there flying this simulator because of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we always had crewmen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In those days also we also always had a backup crew. They don’t always have backup crews nowadays so much, but in those days there were always two crew per flight. So we had plenty of crewmen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking also at differences between Gemini and Apollo, if there were some, again, you had mentioned the network simulations. Well, on Apollo, the network was very different than on Gemini."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.97766150462735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Call up Joe and ask him what he thinks about something. It’s a different world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s different now. Much more relaxed and much better. It’s much better this way.\\n\\n But in the early days it was difficult. One of the things you had to do with the training and the simulation was to try to discipline that or instill that kind of discipline in the communications that were going on with the crew. But TDRS did away with all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you had to make do with what you had have available, though—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to make do with what you had to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and did good with that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.419623894030387, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s different now. Much more relaxed and much better. It’s much better this way.\\n\\n But in the early days it was difficult. One of the things you had to do with the training and the simulation was to try to discipline that or instill that kind of discipline in the communications that were going on with the crew. But TDRS did away with all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you had to make do with what you had have available, though—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to make do with what you had to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and did good with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That’s why the sim net sims had pretty good value. We could practice that, and we’d just turn the data on and off based on the orbital computation as to whether it said this thing should be in acquisition or should not be in acquisition. More than one conversation got cut off in the middle. People missed updates that they should have read up and things of that type. In the training, not so much in the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, that’s what the training’s for, is to learn how to do it right for the mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.13291543781154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to make do with what you had to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and did good with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That’s why the sim net sims had pretty good value. We could practice that, and we’d just turn the data on and off based on the orbital computation as to whether it said this thing should be in acquisition or should not be in acquisition. More than one conversation got cut off in the middle. People missed updates that they should have read up and things of that type. In the training, not so much in the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, that’s what the training’s for, is to learn how to do it right for the mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s what it was for. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, looking back over your entire career with NASA, what would you consider your biggest challenge, and what you consider your most significant accomplishment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.660405271350044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I tell you, I think we had like eight major activities that we wanted to support utilization-wise on Space Station. I think they’re down to like one of those left now. So Space Station has really shrunk in terms of what it was expected to be.\\n\\n For example, when we initially conceptualized it, drug manufacture was to be a big deal. In fact, we had one study performed that said that by the year 2000 — remember, we were going to fly in 1992 — by the year 2000 that drug manufacture or the drug industry, based on space manufacture, would be like $50 billion a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By the year 2000. That was the study that was performed in ‘85, ‘86, somewhere in there. Most of that was based on a process called electrophoresis. You may remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Johnson & Johnson was involved in it, along with McDonnell Douglas. That turned out not to pan out too well, because what really happened is genetic engineering and a few other ground-based processes kind of overtook it. It’s still better, but it’s not that much better. So it turned out not to be such a good deal.\\n\\n The other thing that happened was, after we did the Phase B definition, the Space Station and the prime emphasis became development, hardware development. I think people forgot all about why they were building it. The utilization people sort of got shuffled off to the back, and all those advisory committees pretty much went by the by. They’re just now beginning to realize again that, hey, this thing really is—I don’t know if you’ve read the Young Committee report. Have you been following that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, not directly."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.97592633950624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was chaired by Tom [A. Thomas] Young. It has recommended some major changes in NASA and in the Johnson Space Center and the Space Station Program, one of which is this thing is a science program, give it to the scientists. That’s basically what it says. So if you haven’t read that—do you ever read a thing called\\n\\n NASA Watch\\n\\n ?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It must be on\\n\\n NASA Watch\\n\\n . Look on\\n\\n NASA Watch\\n\\n , and you’ll find a copy of the report."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other thing that would be very worthwhile reading for you if you want to know what’s going on in the space business, this report in particular, there’s a guy by the name of Sean O’Keefe, who’s deputy manager of the OMB [Office of Management and Budget]. He and Tom Young testified just yesterday, in fact, to the House Science Committee. You should read those statements, O’Keefe’s in particular, because that reflects the administration’s view of what they want to do with Space Station. So it’s interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Especially since we’re in the process now of trying to find a new administrator and a new center director."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.084362599451376, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It must be on\\n\\n NASA Watch\\n\\n . Look on\\n\\n NASA Watch\\n\\n , and you’ll find a copy of the report."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other thing that would be very worthwhile reading for you if you want to know what’s going on in the space business, this report in particular, there’s a guy by the name of Sean O’Keefe, who’s deputy manager of the OMB [Office of Management and Budget]. He and Tom Young testified just yesterday, in fact, to the House Science Committee. You should read those statements, O’Keefe’s in particular, because that reflects the administration’s view of what they want to do with Space Station. So it’s interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Especially since we’re in the process now of trying to find a new administrator and a new center director."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s part of the problem. Not only administrator, but you need an associate administrator, and I guess we need a center director. Tommy [W.] Holloway, I guess, is the ranking Space Station guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe so."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.315958443834862, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other thing that would be very worthwhile reading for you if you want to know what’s going on in the space business, this report in particular, there’s a guy by the name of Sean O’Keefe, who’s deputy manager of the OMB [Office of Management and Budget]. He and Tom Young testified just yesterday, in fact, to the House Science Committee. You should read those statements, O’Keefe’s in particular, because that reflects the administration’s view of what they want to do with Space Station. So it’s interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Especially since we’re in the process now of trying to find a new administrator and a new center director."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s part of the problem. Not only administrator, but you need an associate administrator, and I guess we need a center director. Tommy [W.] Holloway, I guess, is the ranking Space Station guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there are three vacancies above him, so that’s going to be interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It will be."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.684398270927625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s part of the problem. Not only administrator, but you need an associate administrator, and I guess we need a center director. Tommy [W.] Holloway, I guess, is the ranking Space Station guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there are three vacancies above him, so that’s going to be interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It will be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It be will interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think NASA is in for a little bit of change here for the future."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.425183050527933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It be will interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think NASA is in for a little bit of change here for the future."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they are. I sat through three of those Tom Young committee meetings, task force meetings, supporting Japanese people. It’s fair what they’ve concluded. I mean, I think they did a pretty good job. At the same time I think the Space Station program did a pretty good job of presenting their situation to them as well. It’s just there are honest disagreements about where you should be and what you should be doing. Tom Young’s view, very clearly, is that this program is a science support program and should be orchestrated by scientists, not by a manned space flight infrastructure, and that’s what he’s recommended."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it will be interesting to see what happens out of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very much so. Very much so."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.02798116725326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they are. I sat through three of those Tom Young committee meetings, task force meetings, supporting Japanese people. It’s fair what they’ve concluded. I mean, I think they did a pretty good job. At the same time I think the Space Station program did a pretty good job of presenting their situation to them as well. It’s just there are honest disagreements about where you should be and what you should be doing. Tom Young’s view, very clearly, is that this program is a science support program and should be orchestrated by scientists, not by a manned space flight infrastructure, and that’s what he’s recommended."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it will be interesting to see what happens out of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very much so. Very much so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You may have some new history you can write on JSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we are always looking for new history and ongoing history."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.517120942734234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It will change the flavor of how JSC will support the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not going to move the program anywhere else, I don’t think, but they’ll have to adopt a different view, JSC. The problems that we had, even when I was working utilization, in the early days of Space Station, there were big arguments even in those days about JSC did not have high enough ranking advocates for science. Most people are arguing that, well, you ought to do this at some other center. You ought to operate the station somewhere else because JSC doesn’t attribute a lot of importance to the science community.\\n\\n It was true that you could go to Marshall and you could find someone who reported directly to the center director was a scientist. JSC, you’d find him about four levels down. That’s another thing Tom Young’s recommended. He wants a program scientist put on as a deputy manager of the program here. Plus he wants them both to report to the associate administrator for Space Station, who will be a scientist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I will definitely have to check that out."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.68568993637137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not going to move the program anywhere else, I don’t think, but they’ll have to adopt a different view, JSC. The problems that we had, even when I was working utilization, in the early days of Space Station, there were big arguments even in those days about JSC did not have high enough ranking advocates for science. Most people are arguing that, well, you ought to do this at some other center. You ought to operate the station somewhere else because JSC doesn’t attribute a lot of importance to the science community.\\n\\n It was true that you could go to Marshall and you could find someone who reported directly to the center director was a scientist. JSC, you’d find him about four levels down. That’s another thing Tom Young’s recommended. He wants a program scientist put on as a deputy manager of the program here. Plus he wants them both to report to the associate administrator for Space Station, who will be a scientist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I will definitely have to check that out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Check it out and read those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you for—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 35.353164213401364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can’t work in a place for thirty-five years. We all love this place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much we can do, other than kibbutz from the sideline, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "True."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nowadays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, one last quick question. Looking back again over your career at NASA, were there any particular individuals that really either impacted your career or that you think were very significant to the program as a whole?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.400070916519395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you talked to John Aaron?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell him to send you the Tindallgrams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m pretty sure he’s got them all. There may be some other people that have them. I don’t know, but John’s got them. John’s got them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll check on that. Because, unfortunately, he’s one of the people that we obviously haven’t been able to talk to about the project, Bill Tindall, but we have talked to a lot of people about him and certainly—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.666745462799327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell him to send you the Tindallgrams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m pretty sure he’s got them all. There may be some other people that have them. I don’t know, but John’s got them. John’s got them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll check on that. Because, unfortunately, he’s one of the people that we obviously haven’t been able to talk to about the project, Bill Tindall, but we have talked to a lot of people about him and certainly—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Phil [Philip C.] Shaffer, have you ever talked to Phil Shaffer?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we have."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.918718055966153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He would know all about Bill Tindall, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He might be one of the first guys I’d talk to, Shaffer, about him. He can tell you all about Tindall. John can tell you about lots of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shuttle, Station, Skylab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were able to do a couple sessions with him."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.035540399277782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you can get him to talk. In particular if you can get him to—some of his West Texas similes and metaphors and things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can never remember all of them now, but he used to have—when he’d get through talking, we’d say, “What did he say?” [Laughter] “He’d got that doggie roped and tied.” What did that mean? Stuff like that. Yeah, John’s a good fellow to talk to about that.\\n\\n Actually, Neil Hutchinson would be an interesting fellow to talk to a little bit too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you haven’t talked to him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re in the middle of talking with Mr. Hutchinson. He comes to Houston on travel frequently, and so we try and catch up when we can. We’ve talked to him, I think twice but would like to again."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.26171155475309, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can never remember all of them now, but he used to have—when he’d get through talking, we’d say, “What did he say?” [Laughter] “He’d got that doggie roped and tied.” What did that mean? Stuff like that. Yeah, John’s a good fellow to talk to about that.\\n\\n Actually, Neil Hutchinson would be an interesting fellow to talk to a little bit too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you haven’t talked to him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re in the middle of talking with Mr. Hutchinson. He comes to Houston on travel frequently, and so we try and catch up when we can. We’ve talked to him, I think twice but would like to again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Neil could give you a good Space Station early day history. Have you talked to Clarke Covington?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, not yet."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.17967950528121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you haven’t talked to him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re in the middle of talking with Mr. Hutchinson. He comes to Houston on travel frequently, and so we try and catch up when we can. We’ve talked to him, I think twice but would like to again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Neil could give you a good Space Station early day history. Have you talked to Clarke Covington?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, not yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Clarke Covington would be a good guy for you to talk to in terms of program formulation, if you will, how Space Station got started here and how things evolved the way they did. He will have all that in spades.\\n\\n Neil inherited the Space Station. It was already in place and pretty much all the conceptualization had been done when he was made the program manager. But he could certainly relate for you what the relationships were between Johnson and Headquarters people in those early days. Neil, he only stayed there about a year and a half, though. I believe it’s about a year and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, before we close, I’d like to ask Kevin and Sandra if they had any questions on what we covered today.\n\nI guess I just have one sort of anecdotal question that you may or may not have any comments on. I was just thinking of something that one of the flight controllers had told us about simulations. We were talking about Bob [Robert L.] Carlton."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.199643894756901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Neil could give you a good Space Station early day history. Have you talked to Clarke Covington?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, not yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Clarke Covington would be a good guy for you to talk to in terms of program formulation, if you will, how Space Station got started here and how things evolved the way they did. He will have all that in spades.\\n\\n Neil inherited the Space Station. It was already in place and pretty much all the conceptualization had been done when he was made the program manager. But he could certainly relate for you what the relationships were between Johnson and Headquarters people in those early days. Neil, he only stayed there about a year and a half, though. I believe it’s about a year and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, before we close, I’d like to ask Kevin and Sandra if they had any questions on what we covered today.\n\nI guess I just have one sort of anecdotal question that you may or may not have any comments on. I was just thinking of something that one of the flight controllers had told us about simulations. We were talking about Bob [Robert L.] Carlton."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was saying that sometimes during simulations when things got a little slow for some of the controllers, the astronauts—and he was speaking particularly of Neil Armstrong—used to like to make things more interesting for them by flipping a switch here or pulling a circuit breaker there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.332937660841, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Clarke Covington would be a good guy for you to talk to in terms of program formulation, if you will, how Space Station got started here and how things evolved the way they did. He will have all that in spades.\\n\\n Neil inherited the Space Station. It was already in place and pretty much all the conceptualization had been done when he was made the program manager. But he could certainly relate for you what the relationships were between Johnson and Headquarters people in those early days. Neil, he only stayed there about a year and a half, though. I believe it’s about a year and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, before we close, I’d like to ask Kevin and Sandra if they had any questions on what we covered today.\n\nI guess I just have one sort of anecdotal question that you may or may not have any comments on. I was just thinking of something that one of the flight controllers had told us about simulations. We were talking about Bob [Robert L.] Carlton."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was saying that sometimes during simulations when things got a little slow for some of the controllers, the astronauts—and he was speaking particularly of Neil Armstrong—used to like to make things more interesting for them by flipping a switch here or pulling a circuit breaker there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just sort of—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:216", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 12.59215295649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was saying that sometimes during simulations when things got a little slow for some of the controllers, the astronauts—and he was speaking particularly of Neil Armstrong—used to like to make things more interesting for them by flipping a switch here or pulling a circuit breaker there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just sort of—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’d do things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "— on the fly. I was wondering if you had any comments about that kind of thing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:224", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.330060900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One fellow you really need to talk to and maybe you don’t want to wait till he retires, do you know Bob [Robert D.] Legler?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Legler is the trivia king. He knows everything there is to know about the space program, I mean in terms of trivia-type stuff. But he knows which crewman did what, when, where and etc."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he’s, I don’t know, Legler’s probably seventy years old. He’s still working over here, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve been trying to set up a session with him, and unfortunately, his work schedule hasn’t panned out."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:228", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.814890000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he’s, I don’t know, Legler’s probably seventy years old. He’s still working over here, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve been trying to set up a session with him, and unfortunately, his work schedule hasn’t panned out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You really need to talk to him. You need to talk to him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anything else?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sandra?\\n\\n Is there anything else that you can think of that we haven’t touched on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:232", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9690000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anything else?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sandra?\\n\\n Is there anything else that you can think of that we haven’t touched on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, nothing that’s worth mentioning. I suppose if we’d sat down and had a couple of beers, we could probably remember a lot of this stuff. You have to understand, it’s been fifteen years or so since I worked on the training stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s actually been longer than that. It’s about twenty years. Apollo 12 was the last time—well, we were training a flight control, and then we were crew training for the Shuttle up through 1982. ‘81, ‘82, somewhere along in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think you certainly remembered quite a bit, and we appreciate you sharing it with us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:234", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.41, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, nothing that’s worth mentioning. I suppose if we’d sat down and had a couple of beers, we could probably remember a lot of this stuff. You have to understand, it’s been fifteen years or so since I worked on the training stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s actually been longer than that. It’s about twenty years. Apollo 12 was the last time—well, we were training a flight control, and then we were crew training for the Shuttle up through 1982. ‘81, ‘82, somewhere along in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think you certainly remembered quite a bit, and we appreciate you sharing it with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if you have any further questions, by all means, let me know what they are and I’ll give you a reaction to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Thank you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:236", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s actually been longer than that. It’s about twenty years. Apollo 12 was the last time—well, we were training a flight control, and then we were crew training for the Shuttle up through 1982. ‘81, ‘82, somewhere along in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think you certainly remembered quite a bit, and we appreciate you sharing it with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if you have any further questions, by all means, let me know what they are and I’ll give you a reaction to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you talk to some of those guys we mentioned, I’m sure they remember more than I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we find that everybody remembers things because everybody had a different focus, a slightly different focus, so we do get all different pieces from everybody, which helps put together the whole picture."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00543:240", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you talk to some of those guys we mentioned, I’m sure they remember more than I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we find that everybody remembers things because everybody had a different focus, a slightly different focus, so we do get all different pieces from everybody, which helps put together the whole picture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For old training, this guy [Gordon M.] Ferguson would be a good fellow for you to talk to. And for later day training, [Robert K.] Holkan managed the training division over there for several years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Would be a good guy to talk to. Frank [E.] Hughes, of course, has been involved in there too. You’ve still got a lot of a folks around you can get some good data out of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So absolutely. Absolutely. We look forward to it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.966998990591264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, currently I'm an ESL teacher. I've also been the administrator at our school. I've been with the ELS Language Centers for over 30 years and in various capacities, center director, academic director, and instructional specialist. And then before that, teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where do you live?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I live in southeast Atlanta. And I was born in Atlanta."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And could you think back a little bit to the year before you joined Peace Corps and talk about your life then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a senior in college, I graduated in August of 1968. Had applied to the Peace Corps earlier that spring and was faced with the decision because I really wanted to go into the Peace Corps. But also there was a time when the Army Reserve an opening there became possible and I didn't necessarily want to join the Army Reserve, but a lot of people are using that as their protection against going to Vietnam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did joining the Peace Corps have anything to do with Vietnam?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 33.296665545101405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I live in southeast Atlanta. And I was born in Atlanta."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And could you think back a little bit to the year before you joined Peace Corps and talk about your life then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a senior in college, I graduated in August of 1968. Had applied to the Peace Corps earlier that spring and was faced with the decision because I really wanted to go into the Peace Corps. But also there was a time when the Army Reserve an opening there became possible and I didn't necessarily want to join the Army Reserve, but a lot of people are using that as their protection against going to Vietnam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did joining the Peace Corps have anything to do with Vietnam?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, not at all. I mean, I've always been, I consider myself to be pretty much of an idealist in many ways and try to be altruistic and thought that, you know, saving the world would be something I could do. Of course, I know that wasn't what I went to the Peace Corps for, but certainly going to help others was one of my motivations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you hear about Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 32.55185060566822, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a senior in college, I graduated in August of 1968. Had applied to the Peace Corps earlier that spring and was faced with the decision because I really wanted to go into the Peace Corps. But also there was a time when the Army Reserve an opening there became possible and I didn't necessarily want to join the Army Reserve, but a lot of people are using that as their protection against going to Vietnam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did joining the Peace Corps have anything to do with Vietnam?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, not at all. I mean, I've always been, I consider myself to be pretty much of an idealist in many ways and try to be altruistic and thought that, you know, saving the world would be something I could do. Of course, I know that wasn't what I went to the Peace Corps for, but certainly going to help others was one of my motivations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you hear about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, being a child of the sixties, born in 1946, and having spent my teenage years with the Kennedy mystique, the Peace Corps became part of what was then this country's desire to move forward in the world. And I looked at that as a possibility, and it's when it started in the early sixties. By the time I graduated and considered it, I realized that it was something that was worthwhile, and I just it was in my consciousness, so I knew it was something that I'd like to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a specific country or project in mind, something you wanted to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 31.72427845074247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, not at all. I mean, I've always been, I consider myself to be pretty much of an idealist in many ways and try to be altruistic and thought that, you know, saving the world would be something I could do. Of course, I know that wasn't what I went to the Peace Corps for, but certainly going to help others was one of my motivations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you hear about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, being a child of the sixties, born in 1946, and having spent my teenage years with the Kennedy mystique, the Peace Corps became part of what was then this country's desire to move forward in the world. And I looked at that as a possibility, and it's when it started in the early sixties. By the time I graduated and considered it, I realized that it was something that was worthwhile, and I just it was in my consciousness, so I knew it was something that I'd like to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a specific country or project in mind, something you wanted to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, being the son of and being a Sephardic Jew, I grew up listening to and in many ways speaking certain words, not very fluently in the ancient language of Ladino. And so Spanish was something that I've always been attuned to. And even though it wasn't your classical Spanish, it still was something that was in my blood and my culture. And so I felt very close to that and I wanted to go to a country where I could possibly use Spanish. So I applied to South America Central or South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you remember anything about the application process, how long it took, what you needed to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 34.43659595437925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I will say this, it did take some time and then we needed some letters of support references. You know, you had to write a very long essay, as I recall about why you wanted to join the Peace Corps and so on and so forth. And the day, the timing couldn't have been better really for me because a lot of my friends were joining, like I said, the National Guard was really big then, Army Reserve. I mean, and I had to make a decision because I hadn't heard from the Peace Corps and the day before I was supposed to go to make this final decision about whether to go to the Army Reserve. I got a letter from the Peace Corps that said, you know, welcome, you know, we're glad to have you come to the Peace Corps. And the letter was signed by someone who like the director at that time but from the Brazil Peace Corps organization, and they signed it ciao, which I thought was very odd because I always thought that was an Italian word, but it turns out they do use it in Portuguese as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did your family think, and your friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were very happy. Of course, I had been living with my family during my college years, so we were very close, and even if I hadn't been living with them, I know we would, we still would have been close. I think they were they were happy for me. They were, of course, like any parent. Any parents would be a little bit fearful of the unknown, but they were supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, they were. In fact, they gave me a surprise going away party before I went to a Peace Corps training in Brattleboro, Vermont."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what project were you invited to join?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 34.92955106042139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were very happy. Of course, I had been living with my family during my college years, so we were very close, and even if I hadn't been living with them, I know we would, we still would have been close. I think they were they were happy for me. They were, of course, like any parent. Any parents would be a little bit fearful of the unknown, but they were supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, they were. In fact, they gave me a surprise going away party before I went to a Peace Corps training in Brattleboro, Vermont."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what project were you invited to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the project that was sort of the counterpart to the 4-H clubs here. It was called Quatro Esse, which stands for 4-S. And we were supposed to go into a community. Like I said, I was in community development, and work with the children of the town, establish these clubs called clubes agrícolas, which was basically the translation is agricultural clubs, and start different projects, such as raising rabbits to kill and sell. Also, my partner was involved with the teaching of knitting skills, and it was actually trying to get people in the community to share their knowledge of these things so that once we left, there would be a sustainable project. And the idea was to make money from these clubs to give to the school that was there in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how did you? Can you talk a little bit about your training? Where you had it? Who were who were your trainers, what you studied, how they prepared you for a project like that? What did you do with language training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.14394562269043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, they were. In fact, they gave me a surprise going away party before I went to a Peace Corps training in Brattleboro, Vermont."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what project were you invited to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the project that was sort of the counterpart to the 4-H clubs here. It was called Quatro Esse, which stands for 4-S. And we were supposed to go into a community. Like I said, I was in community development, and work with the children of the town, establish these clubs called clubes agrícolas, which was basically the translation is agricultural clubs, and start different projects, such as raising rabbits to kill and sell. Also, my partner was involved with the teaching of knitting skills, and it was actually trying to get people in the community to share their knowledge of these things so that once we left, there would be a sustainable project. And the idea was to make money from these clubs to give to the school that was there in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how did you? Can you talk a little bit about your training? Where you had it? Who were who were your trainers, what you studied, how they prepared you for a project like that? What did you do with language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. In September of '68, I flew from Atlanta to New York from New York to Keene, New Hampshire, and from there took a bus with some other people who had joined the Peace Corps to Brattleboro, Vermont, to the school for international training. And stayed there for 10 weeks. While there, we studied Portuguese every day. It was total immersion almost all the time. And then we also study things that were very foreign to me, literally, figuratively as well, like raising rabbits, planting things. Agricultural endeavors, but also community organizing. How to go about doing those things. And a lot most of us were BAs, people who had graduated from college and something other than what we were going to be doing. So it was a real challenge to try to learn more about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have a college background in biology?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 41.71893254165844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was going to stay for another year, I believe. In fact, I think he had extended because of his relationship with this woman, Aparacita. And a woman, a very poor woman living in a mud hut, invited us in. She was sweeping her mud floor, dirt floor. And it was just so moving to me, the kindness of the people there that, she offered a banana or something like that, it was all she could offer. But it was just so, so sincere. It wasn't just to impress anybody. I think that's what really, really made me realize that we live in such a world of privilege materially but spiritually, not in a religious sense. But in other ways. We really don't know. A lot of us don't know how to stay in touch with what's real. We look at things around us and say, well, it's a banana. But in that woman's house, it was a way to offer kindness and hospitality, which I'm not saying doesn't happen here, but I don't think I think we take those things for granted. Anyway, it was a great experience being there. Then after that, we went back to Belo Horizonte. I had a Brazilian family that has given to me before I was assigned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What town was it, where you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Santo Antonio do Amparo, after we had gotten to Belo Horizonte, which is the capital city of Minas Gerais. And then we had a Brazilian family to stay with for two or three days. Then we got sent to our regular, our sort of visitation sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not where you were going to be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not where I was going to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh so that's where you were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.687702824064935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Santo Antonio do Amparo, after we had gotten to Belo Horizonte, which is the capital city of Minas Gerais. And then we had a Brazilian family to stay with for two or three days. Then we got sent to our regular, our sort of visitation sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not where you were going to be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not where I was going to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh so that's where you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where I was getting training. And then we went back to celebrate Christmas and then the holidays. And then after that, we went to our towns and we were put in a jeep with the guy who taught us Portuguese, Edson, one of the guys, great guys. And they dropped us off at the time. Met the mayor who was this man, probably in his mid- 80s, who was a member of a very powerful family in the small town Lagoa Dourada, which means golden lagoon. And his name was, I forget his first name. His last name Hesenge, with an R, initiating that word. And he was, he had no clue as to why we were there. Everything was supposed to have been settled. Okay, they're coming and you know, you're going to help them. Well, it was like pulling teeth after the guys who dropped us off left. Our center director left and then the state director left. And it was it was pretty difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there hadn't been volunteers in the town before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 44.09744758229437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not where I was going to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh so that's where you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where I was getting training. And then we went back to celebrate Christmas and then the holidays. And then after that, we went to our towns and we were put in a jeep with the guy who taught us Portuguese, Edson, one of the guys, great guys. And they dropped us off at the time. Met the mayor who was this man, probably in his mid- 80s, who was a member of a very powerful family in the small town Lagoa Dourada, which means golden lagoon. And his name was, I forget his first name. His last name Hesenge, with an R, initiating that word. And he was, he had no clue as to why we were there. Everything was supposed to have been settled. Okay, they're coming and you know, you're going to help them. Well, it was like pulling teeth after the guys who dropped us off left. Our center director left and then the state director left. And it was it was pretty difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there hadn't been volunteers in the town before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First time and the rumor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there were two of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 38.99716398032708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where I was getting training. And then we went back to celebrate Christmas and then the holidays. And then after that, we went to our towns and we were put in a jeep with the guy who taught us Portuguese, Edson, one of the guys, great guys. And they dropped us off at the time. Met the mayor who was this man, probably in his mid- 80s, who was a member of a very powerful family in the small town Lagoa Dourada, which means golden lagoon. And his name was, I forget his first name. His last name Hesenge, with an R, initiating that word. And he was, he had no clue as to why we were there. Everything was supposed to have been settled. Okay, they're coming and you know, you're going to help them. Well, it was like pulling teeth after the guys who dropped us off left. Our center director left and then the state director left. And it was it was pretty difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there hadn't been volunteers in the town before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First time and the rumor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there were two of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My partner Mary and I. And the rumor had it that Los Americanos were there to exploit the gold because many years ago they had discovered gold, which is why they called it Golden Lagoon. And they thought, you know, well, these people are here, they must know something. They're Americans, right? Well, that persisted for the first few months that we were there and it was very, very hard to break through that because they looked at, they even asked things like, people would say, well, what's Jackie Kennedy like? Did you know Jack Kennedy? Because they'd get LOOK magazine and Life magazine and they'd always think that everybody knew all the wealthy people. They thought we were wealthy and compared to some of them, we really were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so maybe you could talk now a little bit about the specifics of your job, what you had to do and where you lived, what a typical day was like."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 39.99684886703009, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First time and the rumor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there were two of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My partner Mary and I. And the rumor had it that Los Americanos were there to exploit the gold because many years ago they had discovered gold, which is why they called it Golden Lagoon. And they thought, you know, well, these people are here, they must know something. They're Americans, right? Well, that persisted for the first few months that we were there and it was very, very hard to break through that because they looked at, they even asked things like, people would say, well, what's Jackie Kennedy like? Did you know Jack Kennedy? Because they'd get LOOK magazine and Life magazine and they'd always think that everybody knew all the wealthy people. They thought we were wealthy and compared to some of them, we really were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so maybe you could talk now a little bit about the specifics of your job, what you had to do and where you lived, what a typical day was like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. Well, there was the town of Lagoa Dourada has about 3,000 people, had about 3,000 people at that time. And just the two streets crossing each other. The main street was the road between BR3, Brazil inter-state road three, which led to Rio and another road that led to Rio de, sorry. One led to Sao Paulo, one that led to Rio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far were you from the big cities?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.365127950923556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But one of the greatest projects that we really undertook was the school to school program, which was great. And basically, there was a man named Salas Oswaldo, short man with the most beautiful blue eyes. And he looked he looked like a little, um, not an elf, but he had this sort of impish look about him, and he's just the nicest person. He would walk from his town just several kilometers away. And he had heard about us and we made contact with him. We met with him and he basically said, you know, we need a school and we live in an area that was that where they were? That wasn't even a village, it was sort of like a, I don't know what you would call it. It was smaller than the village. It was just pockets of people who were working in the field, had their own farms, but needed a place for their kids to go to school. And so they were meeting, his wife was a teacher and they were meeting, I believe, at someone's house. But they really wanted to go to school suite. We made contact with the school to school program, which at that time would set up. And you've probably heard about this too. American schools would collect money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about the school to school program, and I was wondering if it was a Peace Corps program or what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall the Peace Corps actually being involved. They may have been, I don't recall the accreditation and I honestly, I think it's it was something that probably we got information on from the Peace Corps, but we had to do the writing of the proposal. And eventually the money came in and we built a two-room schoolhouse. Osvaldo oversaw the entire thing. We kept records of what we did for the books and we had an opening. It was just incredible. I mean, that to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did this happen in your first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in your first year, let's go back to that for just a minute. In your first year, did you ever do any of the raising rabbits or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.183475501026173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall the Peace Corps actually being involved. They may have been, I don't recall the accreditation and I honestly, I think it's it was something that probably we got information on from the Peace Corps, but we had to do the writing of the proposal. And eventually the money came in and we built a two-room schoolhouse. Osvaldo oversaw the entire thing. We kept records of what we did for the books and we had an opening. It was just incredible. I mean, that to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did this happen in your first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in your first year, let's go back to that for just a minute. In your first year, did you ever do any of the raising rabbits or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Oh, that was always fun, because the raising rabbits back in Brattleboro involved killing the rabbits. I always managed to avoid that. You would get a stick or something hard and pound them on the head. And then, of course, and skin them because this rabbit pelt, which you would have to dry and then sell would be part of what you would use to make money, plus the meat itself. You would get and you have to, you know, gut it and save parts of it. Of course, it tastes like chicken like as does everything. And so I just would refuse to do it. I'd always just sort of stand in the back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did that at training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.092750556695748, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in your first year, let's go back to that for just a minute. In your first year, did you ever do any of the raising rabbits or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Oh, that was always fun, because the raising rabbits back in Brattleboro involved killing the rabbits. I always managed to avoid that. You would get a stick or something hard and pound them on the head. And then, of course, and skin them because this rabbit pelt, which you would have to dry and then sell would be part of what you would use to make money, plus the meat itself. You would get and you have to, you know, gut it and save parts of it. Of course, it tastes like chicken like as does everything. And so I just would refuse to do it. I'd always just sort of stand in the back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did that at training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At training. So raising the rabbits. I raised the rabbits and they had little rabbits, but we didn't do anything with the rabbits. And the idea was that the kids were supposed to take care them, in Brazil. The kids were supposed to then raise the rabbits, kill them, get the skin, sell them, all that stuff. So really, the rabbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that happen?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.103056174106387, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Oh, that was always fun, because the raising rabbits back in Brattleboro involved killing the rabbits. I always managed to avoid that. You would get a stick or something hard and pound them on the head. And then, of course, and skin them because this rabbit pelt, which you would have to dry and then sell would be part of what you would use to make money, plus the meat itself. You would get and you have to, you know, gut it and save parts of it. Of course, it tastes like chicken like as does everything. And so I just would refuse to do it. I'd always just sort of stand in the back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did that at training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At training. So raising the rabbits. I raised the rabbits and they had little rabbits, but we didn't do anything with the rabbits. And the idea was that the kids were supposed to take care them, in Brazil. The kids were supposed to then raise the rabbits, kill them, get the skin, sell them, all that stuff. So really, the rabbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't happen. I just raised the rabbits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was not a project that took off."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.225617971229319, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At training. So raising the rabbits. I raised the rabbits and they had little rabbits, but we didn't do anything with the rabbits. And the idea was that the kids were supposed to take care them, in Brazil. The kids were supposed to then raise the rabbits, kill them, get the skin, sell them, all that stuff. So really, the rabbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't happen. I just raised the rabbits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was not a project that took off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did not take off and but getting the garden going was and we grew cabbage and some other grains, which we collected and sent to market and make some money off of. I got some men in the community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were the gardeners, was it women, children?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.537140635923361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to take the anti-malarials?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did we had that series of shots, a lot of it, which, you know, that we had series of shots, when we were in Brattleboro for different diseases. Probably one of them was malaria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't take the anti-malarials?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because malaria wasn't prevalent?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.930156262137068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did we had that series of shots, a lot of it, which, you know, that we had series of shots, when we were in Brattleboro for different diseases. Probably one of them was malaria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't take the anti-malarials?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because malaria wasn't prevalent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't. Now, in more tropical areas, I'm sure it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So basically, you're saying that new job really evolved?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.47795140237452, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because malaria wasn't prevalent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't. Now, in more tropical areas, I'm sure it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So basically, you're saying that new job really evolved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely. Yeah, I mean, because at the beginning it looks great on paper, then you know, the reality is something different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You told us about a few of the people you met, like the man from the village. Well, first of all, how did your language, I mean, was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.197723780416133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't. Now, in more tropical areas, I'm sure it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So basically, you're saying that new job really evolved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely. Yeah, I mean, because at the beginning it looks great on paper, then you know, the reality is something different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You told us about a few of the people you met, like the man from the village. Well, first of all, how did your language, I mean, was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my, my Portuguese, in all honesty my Portuguese is really good. I could talk to anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel that as your Portuguese got better, it was easier to do more with this project?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.10858197824015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely. Yeah, I mean, because at the beginning it looks great on paper, then you know, the reality is something different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You told us about a few of the people you met, like the man from the village. Well, first of all, how did your language, I mean, was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my, my Portuguese, in all honesty my Portuguese is really good. I could talk to anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel that as your Portuguese got better, it was easier to do more with this project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about Portuguese."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 19.009535531377942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my, my Portuguese, in all honesty my Portuguese is really good. I could talk to anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel that as your Portuguese got better, it was easier to do more with this project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about Portuguese."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I believe that I was able to, as my Portuguese got better, people trusted me more, I feel, because I was hanging out more with the guys and we would play soccer. I mean, I didn't know how to play soccer, but you know, I would go watch them play soccer and attempt to kick the ball. But you could pick up on things related to the culture. And you know what, what certain things were happening. And it sort of made me more attuned to where people were coming from and sort of told me what I could and could not really do. Before though, I was just, you know, green and wet behind the ears as far as Portuguese, even though I could get by pretty well. It just got better and better and Maria's did too, uh, Mary's did. They called her Maria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, you were saying that you went to some of the soccer games. Were there any other know, basically leisure activities that you did in your free time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.12170614597549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about Portuguese."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I believe that I was able to, as my Portuguese got better, people trusted me more, I feel, because I was hanging out more with the guys and we would play soccer. I mean, I didn't know how to play soccer, but you know, I would go watch them play soccer and attempt to kick the ball. But you could pick up on things related to the culture. And you know what, what certain things were happening. And it sort of made me more attuned to where people were coming from and sort of told me what I could and could not really do. Before though, I was just, you know, green and wet behind the ears as far as Portuguese, even though I could get by pretty well. It just got better and better and Maria's did too, uh, Mary's did. They called her Maria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, you were saying that you went to some of the soccer games. Were there any other know, basically leisure activities that you did in your free time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the weekend was always, there was always a dance at the club, which was basically a large room above a restaurant, and they play Brazilian bubblegum music based on American bubblegum music like Yummy, Yummy, Yummy, I got love in my tummy. And Oh Happy Day, that was a biggie. And Clarence Clearwater, they like to dance to that in English and, you know, people would go out drinking. People would just hang out, I mean, Carnival, Carnival was a big time. And then there was an amazing amount of religiosity in the city. I mean, Brazil is 90 percent Catholic, but only like 15 percent, maybe fewer than that, less of a percentage go to church. And there were some of the, um, a lot of the other holidays like Holy Week. I mean, as a Jew, you don't go to church. But I would, I had a girlfriend. And so she would go and I'd go with her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this the first year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.495933513549987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the weekend was always, there was always a dance at the club, which was basically a large room above a restaurant, and they play Brazilian bubblegum music based on American bubblegum music like Yummy, Yummy, Yummy, I got love in my tummy. And Oh Happy Day, that was a biggie. And Clarence Clearwater, they like to dance to that in English and, you know, people would go out drinking. People would just hang out, I mean, Carnival, Carnival was a big time. And then there was an amazing amount of religiosity in the city. I mean, Brazil is 90 percent Catholic, but only like 15 percent, maybe fewer than that, less of a percentage go to church. And there were some of the, um, a lot of the other holidays like Holy Week. I mean, as a Jew, you don't go to church. But I would, I had a girlfriend. And so she would go and I'd go with her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this the first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first year we started. Yeah, it's about six months after I got there or something. We were together for quite some time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These are the girls from the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was her name?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.884370570611097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first year we started. Yeah, it's about six months after I got there or something. We were together for quite some time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These are the girls from the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was her name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cecilia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old was she?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.315967300678997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was her name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cecilia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old was she?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never found out actually, she was, I think, I know she was older than I was, but it was a very sensitive topic. Because in Brazil, like in a lot of developing countries, the older woman is the less quote unquote marketable she is for marriage. And so I believe she was much older than I was. Not much older. She was older, five years older than I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were like 22?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.46218588964333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cecilia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old was she?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never found out actually, she was, I think, I know she was older than I was, but it was a very sensitive topic. Because in Brazil, like in a lot of developing countries, the older woman is the less quote unquote marketable she is for marriage. And so I believe she was much older than I was. Not much older. She was older, five years older than I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were like 22?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 22 yeah, but we were in love and, you know, I was with, you know, met her family and that proved to be very traumatic at times. Her father was an alcoholic and he would go off on just, you know, oh, you can't go out with somebody if you don't marry them. And then the fact that I was Jewish. The priest said something about Jews, and I'll never forget having dinner with him at his house. And he was showing me this book with a caricature of a nefarious person who looked very much like what Hitler would have done when he had the caricatures of Jews with long noses. You know, the curlicues on the side of the hair, pearls and the hat and the counting the money. This was his picture of a Jew. And so Cecilia's father, when he went on a rampage, getting drunk and come home, just get very violent sometimes, you know, just yell and scream a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did she do for work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.735762099603699, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never found out actually, she was, I think, I know she was older than I was, but it was a very sensitive topic. Because in Brazil, like in a lot of developing countries, the older woman is the less quote unquote marketable she is for marriage. And so I believe she was much older than I was. Not much older. She was older, five years older than I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were like 22?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 22 yeah, but we were in love and, you know, I was with, you know, met her family and that proved to be very traumatic at times. Her father was an alcoholic and he would go off on just, you know, oh, you can't go out with somebody if you don't marry them. And then the fact that I was Jewish. The priest said something about Jews, and I'll never forget having dinner with him at his house. And he was showing me this book with a caricature of a nefarious person who looked very much like what Hitler would have done when he had the caricatures of Jews with long noses. You know, the curlicues on the side of the hair, pearls and the hat and the counting the money. This was his picture of a Jew. And so Cecilia's father, when he went on a rampage, getting drunk and come home, just get very violent sometimes, you know, just yell and scream a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did she do for work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was going to school at the time to become a teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.92862455511522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 22 yeah, but we were in love and, you know, I was with, you know, met her family and that proved to be very traumatic at times. Her father was an alcoholic and he would go off on just, you know, oh, you can't go out with somebody if you don't marry them. And then the fact that I was Jewish. The priest said something about Jews, and I'll never forget having dinner with him at his house. And he was showing me this book with a caricature of a nefarious person who looked very much like what Hitler would have done when he had the caricatures of Jews with long noses. You know, the curlicues on the side of the hair, pearls and the hat and the counting the money. This was his picture of a Jew. And so Cecilia's father, when he went on a rampage, getting drunk and come home, just get very violent sometimes, you know, just yell and scream a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did she do for work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was going to school at the time to become a teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in the town, and I think she ended up teaching in São João del Rei, which is about 40 kilometers away. No, I can't recall if she was if, yeah, I think she finished her education courses. And since that time, I haven't had contact with her, but I know Mary as seen her on a couple of occasions and you know, you hear snippets. You're curious, you know, like to know what's going on with her family. But she was the director of the school, and now she's opened up her own language school, teaching English as a foreign language. So she really, she could speak some English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you go back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.254027283461356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was going to school at the time to become a teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in the town, and I think she ended up teaching in São João del Rei, which is about 40 kilometers away. No, I can't recall if she was if, yeah, I think she finished her education courses. And since that time, I haven't had contact with her, but I know Mary as seen her on a couple of occasions and you know, you hear snippets. You're curious, you know, like to know what's going on with her family. But she was the director of the school, and now she's opened up her own language school, teaching English as a foreign language. So she really, she could speak some English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you go back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Me? Well, I'd like to go back sometime, take the family. Wouldn't that be?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh. Ok, so at the, well, I want to ask you also about your living conditions. You stayed in a motel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.726696981623729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in the town, and I think she ended up teaching in São João del Rei, which is about 40 kilometers away. No, I can't recall if she was if, yeah, I think she finished her education courses. And since that time, I haven't had contact with her, but I know Mary as seen her on a couple of occasions and you know, you hear snippets. You're curious, you know, like to know what's going on with her family. But she was the director of the school, and now she's opened up her own language school, teaching English as a foreign language. So she really, she could speak some English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you go back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Me? Well, I'd like to go back sometime, take the family. Wouldn't that be?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh. Ok, so at the, well, I want to ask you also about your living conditions. You stayed in a motel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.362996646248586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Me? Well, I'd like to go back sometime, take the family. Wouldn't that be?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh. Ok, so at the, well, I want to ask you also about your living conditions. You stayed in a motel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole time. And then after the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was nothing else available, or wasn't it kind of expensive?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.06999627360954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole time. And then after the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was nothing else available, or wasn't it kind of expensive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was convenient. Put it that way. I mean, I had privacy as much as I could. Um, unfortunately, sometimes when Cecilia would come to my room of course everybody could hear it and that wasn't good because, you know, being a virgin was big and still is in many places. And I'm not saying we had sex, but what I'm saying is, is that the implications of that could be deadly to someone's reputation. After the Peace Corps, I stayed on in Brazil for another, boy, a year and a half, close for two years because I wanted to stay there and Cecilia and I were very involved. We almost got married in a matter of fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you stayed involved with her the whole time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.744440304010602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole time. And then after the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was nothing else available, or wasn't it kind of expensive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was convenient. Put it that way. I mean, I had privacy as much as I could. Um, unfortunately, sometimes when Cecilia would come to my room of course everybody could hear it and that wasn't good because, you know, being a virgin was big and still is in many places. And I'm not saying we had sex, but what I'm saying is, is that the implications of that could be deadly to someone's reputation. After the Peace Corps, I stayed on in Brazil for another, boy, a year and a half, close for two years because I wanted to stay there and Cecilia and I were very involved. We almost got married in a matter of fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you stayed involved with her the whole time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, but I. And so what, I started living with, I would stay with her family and I come home on the weekends as I worked in Belo Horizonte teaching English. On the weekends I'd go back, but I was not related to the Peace Corps at all at that time. I separated from it. But Mary was still in the Peace Corps for the first year, and so she was having difficulty because she didn't want to go back to come back to the States. She wanted to stay there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So at the end of it, the first year, I don't even remember how you felt when you decided to stay on. Had you had any health problems, take any trips at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.43758062223531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, but I. And so what, I started living with, I would stay with her family and I come home on the weekends as I worked in Belo Horizonte teaching English. On the weekends I'd go back, but I was not related to the Peace Corps at all at that time. I separated from it. But Mary was still in the Peace Corps for the first year, and so she was having difficulty because she didn't want to go back to come back to the States. She wanted to stay there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So at the end of it, the first year, I don't even remember how you felt when you decided to stay on. Had you had any health problems, take any trips at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a health problem once. I had a very serious sinus sinusitis attack. It really laid me low. And Cecilia had been a nurse at one time, so she has to take care of me. And you know, you could go to the pharmacy and get the medicine you needed and then she would just kind of give me a shot or whatever. But I was really sick for about a month and a half. I lost a lot of weight. And um, but, you know, recovered. And as far as trips go, I did travel a lot by myself. Mary would go with a couple that was from a town that wasn't too far away and this couple is actually still married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps volunteer. But I would travel by myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much contact with other volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.04175624692812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a health problem once. I had a very serious sinus sinusitis attack. It really laid me low. And Cecilia had been a nurse at one time, so she has to take care of me. And you know, you could go to the pharmacy and get the medicine you needed and then she would just kind of give me a shot or whatever. But I was really sick for about a month and a half. I lost a lot of weight. And um, but, you know, recovered. And as far as trips go, I did travel a lot by myself. Mary would go with a couple that was from a town that wasn't too far away and this couple is actually still married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps volunteer. But I would travel by myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much contact with other volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. And I didn't mind it that much. You know, I traveled to Rio, Sao Paolo. I went to Curitiba in the southern part of Brazil, never made it to the most southern state, which is Rio Grande do Sul, which is right on the border with Uruguay and Argentina. As far north, I went as far north as Rio Grande do Norte which is one of the most northern states. Never made it to the Amazon unfortunately. But yeah, those were trips that I really enjoyed and traveling by yourself you get lonely sometimes, but it was alright."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so at the end of the first year, did you have a kind of a better idea what you were going to be doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 17.82417360769791, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps volunteer. But I would travel by myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much contact with other volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. And I didn't mind it that much. You know, I traveled to Rio, Sao Paolo. I went to Curitiba in the southern part of Brazil, never made it to the most southern state, which is Rio Grande do Sul, which is right on the border with Uruguay and Argentina. As far north, I went as far north as Rio Grande do Norte which is one of the most northern states. Never made it to the Amazon unfortunately. But yeah, those were trips that I really enjoyed and traveling by yourself you get lonely sometimes, but it was alright."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so at the end of the first year, did you have a kind of a better idea what you were going to be doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Things are falling into place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you already started the school project then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.53493919783251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have some, like, you know, organizing. I think in see, we had some things done, but I don't recall what they were. I guess the fact that I don't recall says how important they really were or anything. I mean, once I left after two years, I didn't have much to. I mean, I look back on what I got out of it, but I don't know what the people there got out of it. So although I will say this, when Mary returned to Lagoa Dourada back in 2002 or 2003, she sent a video, I have it, of the town and I have actually dreamed of the town. I had dreamed of the town before she went there, and the pictures that I see of the town are a lot like what my dreams have been like, which is very odd. And I guess the theme from The Twilight Zone should be blaring now. But uh, but the Oswaldo was in town when she was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who's that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He is the man who helped build the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He still remembers to this day. He's got a picture of us in his house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is the school still operating?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.9277102198139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He is the man who helped build the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He still remembers to this day. He's got a picture of us in his house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is the school still operating?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The school is still operating. Isn't that amazing? So if there's anything I can say that we did, that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's really, yeah. I mean, I was just about to ask you if you felt like you had achieved anything."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 15.475233577571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He still remembers to this day. He's got a picture of us in his house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is the school still operating?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The school is still operating. Isn't that amazing? So if there's anything I can say that we did, that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's really, yeah. I mean, I was just about to ask you if you felt like you had achieved anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we also broke down some stereotypes of Americans all being wealthy and the fact that like three kids in my family and Mary's family, the two and two of her parents were accused of being lazy and half joking. But you know what that means you each have more kids, you know? But it was sort of like, well, you know, people are different. And I think that was something else that we were able to tell them about our world, just like we were learning about theirs. But there was not one way to do that one, honestly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's a good place to talk about this because, you know, Peace Corps had these three goals. Don't know if they talked to you about them. To provide the technical assistance, to help promote a better understanding of Americans, and then to help promote better understanding of other peoples, you know, by Americans. And do you feel like your service, that you fulfilled those three?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.17121411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wish I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mary had gone back. Like in the video, does the town look similar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In some ways and very different in others. I mean, it's definitely grown. It's become sort of almost a bedroom community of Belo Horizonte, although not quite because it's so, excuse me, so far away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far was it, that's the capital of the state?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a city about the size of Atlanta. And I'm sure it's. The road, you don't have superhighways there, like they do here. So there were these two or four lane roads, sometimes maybe two and Minas Gerais, which translates into general mines, was an iron producing and gold producing part of Brazil. And so taking the bus, you go through these iron ore fields and coal fields, and it was really sort of, you know, a long trip. But you know, it's sort of stark landscape that you have these mountains and probably like you saw in Africa, the termite hills. We had lots of those, but I'm sure Lagoa Dourada has become sort of a place where people go on weekends. It seems like a much more affluent town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Than it was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.1902379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In some ways and very different in others. I mean, it's definitely grown. It's become sort of almost a bedroom community of Belo Horizonte, although not quite because it's so, excuse me, so far away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far was it, that's the capital of the state?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a city about the size of Atlanta. And I'm sure it's. The road, you don't have superhighways there, like they do here. So there were these two or four lane roads, sometimes maybe two and Minas Gerais, which translates into general mines, was an iron producing and gold producing part of Brazil. And so taking the bus, you go through these iron ore fields and coal fields, and it was really sort of, you know, a long trip. But you know, it's sort of stark landscape that you have these mountains and probably like you saw in Africa, the termite hills. We had lots of those, but I'm sure Lagoa Dourada has become sort of a place where people go on weekends. It seems like a much more affluent town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Than it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Than it was, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you haven't heard anything from any of those people that you worked with."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 6.539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But the product was, is that I mean, the thing was that some of the kids that had to do, they were, you know, mentally challenged. And so it's just something like out of One Hundred Years of Solitude that you can't believe exists. But that's a great book to read, either before, during, or after having an experience like that. And I'm not saying it as someone who's just gawking at them and making fun of, pointing fingers. It's just that we're so sheltered we don't realize what it's like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like [inaubible], have you read any of his books?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I have not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that book was written probably in the sixties maybe. So I guess with becoming things. I think that when I went, when I left the Peace Corps, I stayed in Brazil longer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, what prompted that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I have not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that book was written probably in the sixties maybe. So I guess with becoming things. I think that when I went, when I left the Peace Corps, I stayed in Brazil longer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, what prompted that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I loved Brazil. I came home for two months in '71, January, end of January something like that. Stayed until early March, went back to Brazil, got a job teaching English in two different schools, and I just loved the life there, I thought it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you finally did come back, did you get involved in any Peace Corps activity that was for returned volunteers, especially the, you know, third goal activities?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00221:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that book was written probably in the sixties maybe. So I guess with becoming things. I think that when I went, when I left the Peace Corps, I stayed in Brazil longer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, what prompted that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I loved Brazil. I came home for two months in '71, January, end of January something like that. Stayed until early March, went back to Brazil, got a job teaching English in two different schools, and I just loved the life there, I thought it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you finally did come back, did you get involved in any Peace Corps activity that was for returned volunteers, especially the, you know, third goal activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I didn't. Unfortunately, I I say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about through your work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.853629086395179, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nI was at Langley [Research Center, Hampton], Virginia, which was NASA, and a lot of the people that were there were going down here to join, and we had a couple of reasons. One, we’re Midwesterners. Two, Betty’s sister was a doctor at UTMB [University of Texas Medical Branch] in Galveston, and that put us into contact with her. It really was a no-brainer for us to want to come down with them. We waited until the first wave of them got down, because I was finishing up an experiment, but we got here as soon as we could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been watching the weather and seeing what was happening down here with Hurricane Carla? Was that weighing on your mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we always watched it, because my sister lived in Galveston. That didn’t seem to bother us though. We were just excited about a new kind of frontier if you will, a new hometown. That was my thoughts I had written down at one time. It was all very impressive and exciting to go to a new hometown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dick, did you come out here for a look and see trip? I understand that they allowed some members of the STG [Space Task Group] to come out and take a look around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. I came here, and I stayed a couple nights with Betty’s sister and visited. They hadn’t even built but one building when I came down, and housing was brand-new. There were very few that had sold yet. It was very brand-new. I like the Midwest, so it appealed to me, and what they were doing. A lot of the NASA offices were down the freeway, they weren’t here on site. It was looking like something I really wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there still any destruction left from Carla when you got here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:4", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.022833902715097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we always watched it, because my sister lived in Galveston. That didn’t seem to bother us though. We were just excited about a new kind of frontier if you will, a new hometown. That was my thoughts I had written down at one time. It was all very impressive and exciting to go to a new hometown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dick, did you come out here for a look and see trip? I understand that they allowed some members of the STG [Space Task Group] to come out and take a look around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. I came here, and I stayed a couple nights with Betty’s sister and visited. They hadn’t even built but one building when I came down, and housing was brand-new. There were very few that had sold yet. It was very brand-new. I like the Midwest, so it appealed to me, and what they were doing. A lot of the NASA offices were down the freeway, they weren’t here on site. It was looking like something I really wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there still any destruction left from Carla when you got here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember any destruction.\n\nI don’t remember it, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you tell Betty about the area when you came back? Did you take any photos or any film?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:6", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.469815447461219, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. I came here, and I stayed a couple nights with Betty’s sister and visited. They hadn’t even built but one building when I came down, and housing was brand-new. There were very few that had sold yet. It was very brand-new. I like the Midwest, so it appealed to me, and what they were doing. A lot of the NASA offices were down the freeway, they weren’t here on site. It was looking like something I really wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there still any destruction left from Carla when you got here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember any destruction.\n\nI don’t remember it, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you tell Betty about the area when you came back? Did you take any photos or any film?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t take any photos or film.\n\nWe were just ready to go.\n\nYes, and the kids were pretty young.\n\nSix and four.\n\nWe got down here so they could start school. Didn’t have to take them out of school, and I think that all worked out well. Our place in Virginia was very close to Langley.\n\nWe lived in Newport News and in Hampton.\n\nThe wind tunnels, when they went off in the middle of the night, were very noisy; we could hear them pretty good.\n\nI’d forgotten that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet, I bet. When did you officially move down here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.882780021073142, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t take any photos or film.\n\nWe were just ready to go.\n\nYes, and the kids were pretty young.\n\nSix and four.\n\nWe got down here so they could start school. Didn’t have to take them out of school, and I think that all worked out well. Our place in Virginia was very close to Langley.\n\nWe lived in Newport News and in Hampton.\n\nThe wind tunnels, when they went off in the middle of the night, were very noisy; we could hear them pretty good.\n\nI’d forgotten that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet, I bet. When did you officially move down here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Halloween of—I wrote it down—1964. We bought the house and moved into the house, and then we had children at the front door. We had no candy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were not very popular.\n\nThere weren’t very many kids. There weren’t very many houses occupied at that point in time either.\n\nI think there were only two houses that were lived in on our street at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you lived on Redway [Lane]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:20", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.262691384040915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Halloween of—I wrote it down—1964. We bought the house and moved into the house, and then we had children at the front door. We had no candy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were not very popular.\n\nThere weren’t very many kids. There weren’t very many houses occupied at that point in time either.\n\nI think there were only two houses that were lived in on our street at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you lived on Redway [Lane]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On Redway. It’s the Del Webb planned community.\n\nIt was still a pretty rustic area. We’d see snakes in the street. We would look out through the front door, and there’s cows walking down the street. Cattle was breaking out.\n\nI don’t remember that.\n\nIt was an interesting time, but it grew up pretty quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were here initially did you put down earnest money for a house? Did you look at Clear Lake City and decide this is where you wanted to go?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:22", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.069657093378794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were not very popular.\n\nThere weren’t very many kids. There weren’t very many houses occupied at that point in time either.\n\nI think there were only two houses that were lived in on our street at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you lived on Redway [Lane]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On Redway. It’s the Del Webb planned community.\n\nIt was still a pretty rustic area. We’d see snakes in the street. We would look out through the front door, and there’s cows walking down the street. Cattle was breaking out.\n\nI don’t remember that.\n\nIt was an interesting time, but it grew up pretty quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were here initially did you put down earnest money for a house? Did you look at Clear Lake City and decide this is where you wanted to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did look at it, but no I did not.\n\nWe actually didn’t buy the house till we got here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live initially? Did you rent property?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:26", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.6329523259764365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On Redway. It’s the Del Webb planned community.\n\nIt was still a pretty rustic area. We’d see snakes in the street. We would look out through the front door, and there’s cows walking down the street. Cattle was breaking out.\n\nI don’t remember that.\n\nIt was an interesting time, but it grew up pretty quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were here initially did you put down earnest money for a house? Did you look at Clear Lake City and decide this is where you wanted to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did look at it, but no I did not.\n\nWe actually didn’t buy the house till we got here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live initially? Did you rent property?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we stayed at the Ramada Inn that was across from Building 1 and we stayed there almost a month. The kids had a good time because there was a swimming pool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be fun."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.355215810667264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did look at it, but no I did not.\n\nWe actually didn’t buy the house till we got here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live initially? Did you rent property?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we stayed at the Ramada Inn that was across from Building 1 and we stayed there almost a month. The kids had a good time because there was a swimming pool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that’s no longer there, the old Ramada Inn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that where Space Center Houston is now?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:34", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.950239789630293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we stayed at the Ramada Inn that was across from Building 1 and we stayed there almost a month. The kids had a good time because there was a swimming pool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that’s no longer there, the old Ramada Inn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that where Space Center Houston is now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Across the street. Let’s see, what’s in there now? I’ve forgotten.\n\nThere’s that big building where you walk up the stairs. It’s a contractor building.\n\nThat’s Joan’s building, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that the SAIC buildings?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:36", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.162194498806986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that’s no longer there, the old Ramada Inn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that where Space Center Houston is now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Across the street. Let’s see, what’s in there now? I’ve forgotten.\n\nThere’s that big building where you walk up the stairs. It’s a contractor building.\n\nThat’s Joan’s building, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that the SAIC buildings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s what you call it. It’s a big stairway going up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I know which ones."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:38", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.06910499867443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Across the street. Let’s see, what’s in there now? I’ve forgotten.\n\nThere’s that big building where you walk up the stairs. It’s a contractor building.\n\nThat’s Joan’s building, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that the SAIC buildings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s what you call it. It’s a big stairway going up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I know which ones."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our daughter worked there for a while.\n\nSomewhere along there is where that hotel was.\n\nYes, there wasn’t anything else there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Besides it being kind of rustic, as you said, what are some of your other memories as you came here? Had you been here before since your sister lived here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:42", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.076783331860478, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s what you call it. It’s a big stairway going up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I know which ones."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our daughter worked there for a while.\n\nSomewhere along there is where that hotel was.\n\nYes, there wasn’t anything else there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Besides it being kind of rustic, as you said, what are some of your other memories as you came here? Had you been here before since your sister lived here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’d never been here before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think as you came down the Gulf Freeway?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:44", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 11.205905347975898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our daughter worked there for a while.\n\nSomewhere along there is where that hotel was.\n\nYes, there wasn’t anything else there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Besides it being kind of rustic, as you said, what are some of your other memories as you came here? Had you been here before since your sister lived here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’d never been here before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think as you came down the Gulf Freeway?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a frog-choking storm, and we were in a Rambler station wagon with the kids in the back. They didn’t have to wear seatbelts. We just thought, “What are we getting into,” because it was really stormy. We had packed up our house and [there were] just a lot of unknowns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the area itself when you came into Clear Lake? Were you surprised by how the area wasn’t really developed? By the fact that there wasn’t much here, and they were building this massive Center devoted to Apollo?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:48", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.673228164417664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’d never been here before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think as you came down the Gulf Freeway?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a frog-choking storm, and we were in a Rambler station wagon with the kids in the back. They didn’t have to wear seatbelts. We just thought, “What are we getting into,” because it was really stormy. We had packed up our house and [there were] just a lot of unknowns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the area itself when you came into Clear Lake? Were you surprised by how the area wasn’t really developed? By the fact that there wasn’t much here, and they were building this massive Center devoted to Apollo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t even have a grocery store for a little while.\n\nYes. They had the original little shopping strip where Aldi is now. That shopping strip. There was a Piggly Wiggly, a Walgreen’s on the corner, and a dime store, a Woolworth’s store. If we wanted any serious shopping, we had to go down the freeway to what they used to call the Sage store. It was a big-box store.\\n\\n For clothing and that sort of thing, we went downtown to Foley’s, and you rode the elevator up, and you had lunch at the Azalea Room. Kids loved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I bet, kind of an adventure for them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.011626527080725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a frog-choking storm, and we were in a Rambler station wagon with the kids in the back. They didn’t have to wear seatbelts. We just thought, “What are we getting into,” because it was really stormy. We had packed up our house and [there were] just a lot of unknowns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the area itself when you came into Clear Lake? Were you surprised by how the area wasn’t really developed? By the fact that there wasn’t much here, and they were building this massive Center devoted to Apollo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t even have a grocery store for a little while.\n\nYes. They had the original little shopping strip where Aldi is now. That shopping strip. There was a Piggly Wiggly, a Walgreen’s on the corner, and a dime store, a Woolworth’s store. If we wanted any serious shopping, we had to go down the freeway to what they used to call the Sage store. It was a big-box store.\\n\\n For clothing and that sort of thing, we went downtown to Foley’s, and you rode the elevator up, and you had lunch at the Azalea Room. Kids loved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I bet, kind of an adventure for them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had to go downtown for shopping for clothes or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was traffic as bad as it is today?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.13529016060456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t even have a grocery store for a little while.\n\nYes. They had the original little shopping strip where Aldi is now. That shopping strip. There was a Piggly Wiggly, a Walgreen’s on the corner, and a dime store, a Woolworth’s store. If we wanted any serious shopping, we had to go down the freeway to what they used to call the Sage store. It was a big-box store.\\n\\n For clothing and that sort of thing, we went downtown to Foley’s, and you rode the elevator up, and you had lunch at the Azalea Room. Kids loved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I bet, kind of an adventure for them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had to go downtown for shopping for clothes or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was traffic as bad as it is today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not got better.\n\nIt was always under construction.\n\nHighway 3 was a two-lane road, very poorly lit. I guess the freeway was there, but it wasn’t used very much.\n\nNot as busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the streets in Oakbrook? Were they paved by that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.044293773120109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had to go downtown for shopping for clothes or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was traffic as bad as it is today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not got better.\n\nIt was always under construction.\n\nHighway 3 was a two-lane road, very poorly lit. I guess the freeway was there, but it wasn’t used very much.\n\nNot as busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the streets in Oakbrook? Were they paved by that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes.\n\nYes. Del Webb had paved the streets around the houses that were built, which basically were only a few blocks on each side of the golf course.\n\nRight, and the rec center was built, everything was built before we got here: the rec center, the golf course. The first neighborhood of course was Oakbrook, and then after two or three years another builder came in and Friendswood [Development Company] left, and then they built with other builders on the other side of the golf course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You live in a Del Webb house."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.826993081244566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not got better.\n\nIt was always under construction.\n\nHighway 3 was a two-lane road, very poorly lit. I guess the freeway was there, but it wasn’t used very much.\n\nNot as busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the streets in Oakbrook? Were they paved by that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes.\n\nYes. Del Webb had paved the streets around the houses that were built, which basically were only a few blocks on each side of the golf course.\n\nRight, and the rec center was built, everything was built before we got here: the rec center, the golf course. The first neighborhood of course was Oakbrook, and then after two or three years another builder came in and Friendswood [Development Company] left, and then they built with other builders on the other side of the golf course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You live in a Del Webb house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nI think they had like four models, maybe it was five. We just bought one of the models, and that house was replicated every block.\n\nThere were the 100 houses and the 200 houses. The 200 houses were larger, and we thought, “Oh, we don’t need that space.” But guess what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With kids it’s amazing how much stuff you accumulate."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.585547868049518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes.\n\nYes. Del Webb had paved the streets around the houses that were built, which basically were only a few blocks on each side of the golf course.\n\nRight, and the rec center was built, everything was built before we got here: the rec center, the golf course. The first neighborhood of course was Oakbrook, and then after two or three years another builder came in and Friendswood [Development Company] left, and then they built with other builders on the other side of the golf course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You live in a Del Webb house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nI think they had like four models, maybe it was five. We just bought one of the models, and that house was replicated every block.\n\nThere were the 100 houses and the 200 houses. The 200 houses were larger, and we thought, “Oh, we don’t need that space.” But guess what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With kids it’s amazing how much stuff you accumulate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived in the house 52 years. Same house, the only house we’ve ever owned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been hard to say goodbye, a lot of memories."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:66", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.950291906805392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nI think they had like four models, maybe it was five. We just bought one of the models, and that house was replicated every block.\n\nThere were the 100 houses and the 200 houses. The 200 houses were larger, and we thought, “Oh, we don’t need that space.” But guess what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With kids it’s amazing how much stuff you accumulate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived in the house 52 years. Same house, the only house we’ve ever owned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been hard to say goodbye, a lot of memories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but it was time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I live in the neighborhood, so I know that. You mentioned there were only about two houses finished on your block when you came. How quickly did the rest of the street fill out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.284310996056039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived in the house 52 years. Same house, the only house we’ve ever owned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been hard to say goodbye, a lot of memories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but it was time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I live in the neighborhood, so I know that. You mentioned there were only about two houses finished on your block when you came. How quickly did the rest of the street fill out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think within six months to a year all our street was filled.\n\nThe houses were built, they weren’t sold. Our next-door neighbor had moved in just before us. Within a year, I think, all the houses were sold.\n\nNASA was importing a lot of people at that point.\n\nThey were recruiting, yes.\n\nThey were filling this up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of your neighbors affiliated with NASA, or were they affiliated like old-timers, farming, ranching, petrochemical?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.649234440062266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but it was time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I live in the neighborhood, so I know that. You mentioned there were only about two houses finished on your block when you came. How quickly did the rest of the street fill out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think within six months to a year all our street was filled.\n\nThe houses were built, they weren’t sold. Our next-door neighbor had moved in just before us. Within a year, I think, all the houses were sold.\n\nNASA was importing a lot of people at that point.\n\nThey were recruiting, yes.\n\nThey were filling this up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of your neighbors affiliated with NASA, or were they affiliated like old-timers, farming, ranching, petrochemical?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were mostly NASA.\n\nAll NASA people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All NASA, that’s unusual."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.850906716126254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think within six months to a year all our street was filled.\n\nThe houses were built, they weren’t sold. Our next-door neighbor had moved in just before us. Within a year, I think, all the houses were sold.\n\nNASA was importing a lot of people at that point.\n\nThey were recruiting, yes.\n\nThey were filling this up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of your neighbors affiliated with NASA, or were they affiliated like old-timers, farming, ranching, petrochemical?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were mostly NASA.\n\nAll NASA people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All NASA, that’s unusual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When you move away, you don’t have any extended family. Then they became your family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask about that, because I think that is very interesting to me, the fact that people moved here, they didn’t have anyone to depend on, so they had to depend on each other. I wondered if you would talk a little bit about that and how that helped to create this Clear Lake area community."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.167674129029173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were mostly NASA.\n\nAll NASA people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All NASA, that’s unusual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When you move away, you don’t have any extended family. Then they became your family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask about that, because I think that is very interesting to me, the fact that people moved here, they didn’t have anyone to depend on, so they had to depend on each other. I wondered if you would talk a little bit about that and how that helped to create this Clear Lake area community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You were at home, so you would have a better feel than I would. I was traveling.\n\nYes. Most families, most of the time, the mom was home. We had morning coffees with the neighbors and that sort of thing, and I think that helped build a sense of family. We all of course were NASA people, so whatever went on at NASA we were involved in. Then about five or six years later my mother moved from Wisconsin and she had an apartment here in Clear Lake, the Kings Inn or something. What was the name of that place? She had been widowed, so she came to be with the grandkids. That was a big help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I bet. When you guys were having morning coffee, I know that the guys were constantly talking shop, even when they were off work. Were you talking about that? Or were you focused on kids, family?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.630749032254636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When you move away, you don’t have any extended family. Then they became your family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask about that, because I think that is very interesting to me, the fact that people moved here, they didn’t have anyone to depend on, so they had to depend on each other. I wondered if you would talk a little bit about that and how that helped to create this Clear Lake area community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You were at home, so you would have a better feel than I would. I was traveling.\n\nYes. Most families, most of the time, the mom was home. We had morning coffees with the neighbors and that sort of thing, and I think that helped build a sense of family. We all of course were NASA people, so whatever went on at NASA we were involved in. Then about five or six years later my mother moved from Wisconsin and she had an apartment here in Clear Lake, the Kings Inn or something. What was the name of that place? She had been widowed, so she came to be with the grandkids. That was a big help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I bet. When you guys were having morning coffee, I know that the guys were constantly talking shop, even when they were off work. Were you talking about that? Or were you focused on kids, family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just family and kids and that. We all in the background knew that our husbands were traveling or whatever. It was just mostly mom stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you juggle that? I wanted to ask you, Dick, too about how much you were traveling, and where you were traveling to. I’ve heard people were working 60-, 70-hour workweeks. Were you working those kind of hours? Were you able to spend much time with your family at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4879959290187035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You were at home, so you would have a better feel than I would. I was traveling.\n\nYes. Most families, most of the time, the mom was home. We had morning coffees with the neighbors and that sort of thing, and I think that helped build a sense of family. We all of course were NASA people, so whatever went on at NASA we were involved in. Then about five or six years later my mother moved from Wisconsin and she had an apartment here in Clear Lake, the Kings Inn or something. What was the name of that place? She had been widowed, so she came to be with the grandkids. That was a big help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I bet. When you guys were having morning coffee, I know that the guys were constantly talking shop, even when they were off work. Were you talking about that? Or were you focused on kids, family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just family and kids and that. We all in the background knew that our husbands were traveling or whatever. It was just mostly mom stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you juggle that? I wanted to ask you, Dick, too about how much you were traveling, and where you were traveling to. I’ve heard people were working 60-, 70-hour workweeks. Were you working those kind of hours? Were you able to spend much time with your family at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not as much as I would have liked. But it was so exciting, what we were doing, and new, that the time went fast. Then there was a lot of travel involved. Some of us were heading for Europe for meetings, so you were gone a lot more than you would like to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you working on that took you to Europe?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:88", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.293547227734847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just family and kids and that. We all in the background knew that our husbands were traveling or whatever. It was just mostly mom stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you juggle that? I wanted to ask you, Dick, too about how much you were traveling, and where you were traveling to. I’ve heard people were working 60-, 70-hour workweeks. Were you working those kind of hours? Were you able to spend much time with your family at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not as much as I would have liked. But it was so exciting, what we were doing, and new, that the time went fast. Then there was a lot of travel involved. Some of us were heading for Europe for meetings, so you were gone a lot more than you would like to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you working on that took you to Europe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When the Shuttle was first designed, the Europeans wanted to build a living quarters they’d put in there. NASA decided that, I think there were three or four of us, should go over there and make sure that they built something that would fit in and that had the human factors touch to it, that if you got a red sign that means something or a gray sign. We went over there for a few months and spent some time at a German factory in Bremen, Germany. Germans didn’t care for us too much. We bombed the heck out of Bremen in World War II, and they were sort of grouchy.\n\nThen you traveled to California a lot, to Downey. We’d go with him sometimes, go to Disneyland. We had a good time on those trips.\n\nThey played all day, and I worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that works the same way today. I try and do it as well. I probably don’t travel as much as you did. You were working on the command module? Was that your assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:90", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.881719141927608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not as much as I would have liked. But it was so exciting, what we were doing, and new, that the time went fast. Then there was a lot of travel involved. Some of us were heading for Europe for meetings, so you were gone a lot more than you would like to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you working on that took you to Europe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When the Shuttle was first designed, the Europeans wanted to build a living quarters they’d put in there. NASA decided that, I think there were three or four of us, should go over there and make sure that they built something that would fit in and that had the human factors touch to it, that if you got a red sign that means something or a gray sign. We went over there for a few months and spent some time at a German factory in Bremen, Germany. Germans didn’t care for us too much. We bombed the heck out of Bremen in World War II, and they were sort of grouchy.\n\nThen you traveled to California a lot, to Downey. We’d go with him sometimes, go to Disneyland. We had a good time on those trips.\n\nThey played all day, and I worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that works the same way today. I try and do it as well. I probably don’t travel as much as you did. You were working on the command module? Was that your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was cockpit for the Orbiter.\n\nGuidance and control.\n\nI was in the Guidance and Control Division so everything in the cockpit became my necessity. When we started designing, we went around the country on two different tours to visit different companies to see what modern airplanes were using. We built on that data.\\n\\n The astronauts that were senior at that time were used to flying mechanical instruments because they were a little older. They weren’t used to CRTs [cathode ray tubes]. There was a little bias against CRTs. We built the original cockpit without them, and we added them later on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I forgot to ask. Where was your original office? You moved here and the Center wasn’t built."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:92", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.032666331229331, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When the Shuttle was first designed, the Europeans wanted to build a living quarters they’d put in there. NASA decided that, I think there were three or four of us, should go over there and make sure that they built something that would fit in and that had the human factors touch to it, that if you got a red sign that means something or a gray sign. We went over there for a few months and spent some time at a German factory in Bremen, Germany. Germans didn’t care for us too much. We bombed the heck out of Bremen in World War II, and they were sort of grouchy.\n\nThen you traveled to California a lot, to Downey. We’d go with him sometimes, go to Disneyland. We had a good time on those trips.\n\nThey played all day, and I worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that works the same way today. I try and do it as well. I probably don’t travel as much as you did. You were working on the command module? Was that your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was cockpit for the Orbiter.\n\nGuidance and control.\n\nI was in the Guidance and Control Division so everything in the cockpit became my necessity. When we started designing, we went around the country on two different tours to visit different companies to see what modern airplanes were using. We built on that data.\\n\\n The astronauts that were senior at that time were used to flying mechanical instruments because they were a little older. They weren’t used to CRTs [cathode ray tubes]. There was a little bias against CRTs. We built the original cockpit without them, and we added them later on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I forgot to ask. Where was your original office? You moved here and the Center wasn’t built."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Original was Building 16."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you located off site before the Center officially opened?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:96", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.702962590254812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was cockpit for the Orbiter.\n\nGuidance and control.\n\nI was in the Guidance and Control Division so everything in the cockpit became my necessity. When we started designing, we went around the country on two different tours to visit different companies to see what modern airplanes were using. We built on that data.\\n\\n The astronauts that were senior at that time were used to flying mechanical instruments because they were a little older. They weren’t used to CRTs [cathode ray tubes]. There was a little bias against CRTs. We built the original cockpit without them, and we added them later on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I forgot to ask. Where was your original office? You moved here and the Center wasn’t built."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Original was Building 16."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you located off site before the Center officially opened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was open by the time we got here.\n\nIt was open by the time we got here I think. Building 1 was finished, and 16, we were moving in.\n\nThen you were in 36 for a long time, and then you went to Building 1.\n\nThat was probably only—36 was ready, and Building 1 is when I ended up—\n\nIn the Space Shuttle. Chief Engineer for the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice way to end one’s career."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:100", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.275262457104706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Original was Building 16."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you located off site before the Center officially opened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was open by the time we got here.\n\nIt was open by the time we got here I think. Building 1 was finished, and 16, we were moving in.\n\nThen you were in 36 for a long time, and then you went to Building 1.\n\nThat was probably only—36 was ready, and Building 1 is when I ended up—\n\nIn the Space Shuttle. Chief Engineer for the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice way to end one’s career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Feather in your cap. I wanted to ask you about your friends in the area. Were most of your friends also from NASA? What sort of things would you get together and do in terms of entertainment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:102", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.434022949405132, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was open by the time we got here.\n\nIt was open by the time we got here I think. Building 1 was finished, and 16, we were moving in.\n\nThen you were in 36 for a long time, and then you went to Building 1.\n\nThat was probably only—36 was ready, and Building 1 is when I ended up—\n\nIn the Space Shuttle. Chief Engineer for the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice way to end one’s career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Feather in your cap. I wanted to ask you about your friends in the area. Were most of your friends also from NASA? What sort of things would you get together and do in terms of entertainment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t do much of that.\n\nYes, we were pretty much homebodies. We didn’t do the splashdown parties and that sort of thing. The only one that I remember is at the Astrodome after the Moon landing, they had a huge event there. Frank Sinatra came and a whole bunch of Hollywood people. I still have the program for that, but we didn’t do a lot of partying. We were just homebodies really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you guys bowl or play cards? Trying to think of things that people might do."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:108", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.678407677361397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Feather in your cap. I wanted to ask you about your friends in the area. Were most of your friends also from NASA? What sort of things would you get together and do in terms of entertainment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t do much of that.\n\nYes, we were pretty much homebodies. We didn’t do the splashdown parties and that sort of thing. The only one that I remember is at the Astrodome after the Moon landing, they had a huge event there. Frank Sinatra came and a whole bunch of Hollywood people. I still have the program for that, but we didn’t do a lot of partying. We were just homebodies really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you guys bowl or play cards? Trying to think of things that people might do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I played tennis after work. Had a couple other people, and we played doubles tennis. Then we got into the track deal at a school over in Webster.\n\nWebster.\n\nWe would go over there and run laps just to unwind, but we didn’t do much socializing I guess. The church was involved.\n\nYes. We had neighbors. We did a couple of block parties and that sort of thing, just neighbors. They were all NASA people anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about that, because that’s something that people don’t do today, these block parties, these neighborhood parties. I wondered if you would talk about it, because it seems to me kind of like a spontaneous thing. Just come out and take your kids and let them play and bring a dish and pass it around."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:110", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.829091464144578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t do much of that.\n\nYes, we were pretty much homebodies. We didn’t do the splashdown parties and that sort of thing. The only one that I remember is at the Astrodome after the Moon landing, they had a huge event there. Frank Sinatra came and a whole bunch of Hollywood people. I still have the program for that, but we didn’t do a lot of partying. We were just homebodies really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you guys bowl or play cards? Trying to think of things that people might do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I played tennis after work. Had a couple other people, and we played doubles tennis. Then we got into the track deal at a school over in Webster.\n\nWebster.\n\nWe would go over there and run laps just to unwind, but we didn’t do much socializing I guess. The church was involved.\n\nYes. We had neighbors. We did a couple of block parties and that sort of thing, just neighbors. They were all NASA people anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about that, because that’s something that people don’t do today, these block parties, these neighborhood parties. I wondered if you would talk about it, because it seems to me kind of like a spontaneous thing. Just come out and take your kids and let them play and bring a dish and pass it around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s it. Yes. It was safe. The kids played out in the street during the day. We felt like they were safe.\n\nFor the block parties we somehow got the street blocked off so you couldn’t drive down it.\n\nWe were on a street that was just one block.\n\nThe rec center was a very active place, and the playgrounds around it.\n\nWent to the swimming pool, spent the day at the pool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think Joan [Robertson, daughter] mentioned either there was just an outdoor pool and then the indoor pool came, or was it the indoor pool first?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.254546071271753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I played tennis after work. Had a couple other people, and we played doubles tennis. Then we got into the track deal at a school over in Webster.\n\nWebster.\n\nWe would go over there and run laps just to unwind, but we didn’t do much socializing I guess. The church was involved.\n\nYes. We had neighbors. We did a couple of block parties and that sort of thing, just neighbors. They were all NASA people anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about that, because that’s something that people don’t do today, these block parties, these neighborhood parties. I wondered if you would talk about it, because it seems to me kind of like a spontaneous thing. Just come out and take your kids and let them play and bring a dish and pass it around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s it. Yes. It was safe. The kids played out in the street during the day. We felt like they were safe.\n\nFor the block parties we somehow got the street blocked off so you couldn’t drive down it.\n\nWe were on a street that was just one block.\n\nThe rec center was a very active place, and the playgrounds around it.\n\nWent to the swimming pool, spent the day at the pool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think Joan [Robertson, daughter] mentioned either there was just an outdoor pool and then the indoor pool came, or was it the indoor pool first?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The outside one was first, and then they added the indoor with a new extension there. Yes, the rec center was busy. Of course during the week it was school. That’s where our son went to school that first year. He was in first grade with Mr. Royal. Mr. Royal.\n\nThen they finished the—\n\nThen they finished the school and John was in the first class that attended the Clear Lake Elementary. Then through the years our son, our daughter, and our granddaughter went to the same school, and she’s doing her practice teaching there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:118", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.727273412524171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s it. Yes. It was safe. The kids played out in the street during the day. We felt like they were safe.\n\nFor the block parties we somehow got the street blocked off so you couldn’t drive down it.\n\nWe were on a street that was just one block.\n\nThe rec center was a very active place, and the playgrounds around it.\n\nWent to the swimming pool, spent the day at the pool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think Joan [Robertson, daughter] mentioned either there was just an outdoor pool and then the indoor pool came, or was it the indoor pool first?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The outside one was first, and then they added the indoor with a new extension there. Yes, the rec center was busy. Of course during the week it was school. That’s where our son went to school that first year. He was in first grade with Mr. Royal. Mr. Royal.\n\nThen they finished the—\n\nThen they finished the school and John was in the first class that attended the Clear Lake Elementary. Then through the years our son, our daughter, and our granddaughter went to the same school, and she’s doing her practice teaching there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it’s really something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, multigenerational, that’s great."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:124", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.2525260139157455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The outside one was first, and then they added the indoor with a new extension there. Yes, the rec center was busy. Of course during the week it was school. That’s where our son went to school that first year. He was in first grade with Mr. Royal. Mr. Royal.\n\nThen they finished the—\n\nThen they finished the school and John was in the first class that attended the Clear Lake Elementary. Then through the years our son, our daughter, and our granddaughter went to the same school, and she’s doing her practice teaching there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it’s really something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, multigenerational, that’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and the school has changed a good deal of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet. It seems like the area has changed. I think Joan, for instance, mentioned that she didn’t remember you guys ever locking your door. You pretty much just left things open."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:130", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.78345681133325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and the school has changed a good deal of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet. It seems like the area has changed. I think Joan, for instance, mentioned that she didn’t remember you guys ever locking your door. You pretty much just left things open."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don’t dare do that anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You made an effort to know your neighbors.\n\nThere were no apartment complexes, for quite some time.\n\nThe only thing they had was where Mom moved into, remember? Those were rental, I’m pretty sure. She was there for about two years, and then she bought a house over on the other side of Highway 3."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Clear Lake Rec Center, which I think is interesting. I’ve read some of—is it Betty Ulrich?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:132", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.314952012592499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don’t dare do that anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You made an effort to know your neighbors.\n\nThere were no apartment complexes, for quite some time.\n\nThe only thing they had was where Mom moved into, remember? Those were rental, I’m pretty sure. She was there for about two years, and then she bought a house over on the other side of Highway 3."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Clear Lake Rec Center, which I think is interesting. I’ve read some of—is it Betty Ulrich?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ulrich, yes, she was around the corner from us, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She included a few of the community newsletters [in her papers], and she has letters in there that she wrote home to family and talked about all the different things that were going on at the rec center. Things like Thanksgiving dinners and different parties and events. I wonder if you would talk about some of those that you might recall, even if you didn’t participate. It seems like it was a real center of community for at least this area."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:134", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.683280013991666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You made an effort to know your neighbors.\n\nThere were no apartment complexes, for quite some time.\n\nThe only thing they had was where Mom moved into, remember? Those were rental, I’m pretty sure. She was there for about two years, and then she bought a house over on the other side of Highway 3."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Clear Lake Rec Center, which I think is interesting. I’ve read some of—is it Betty Ulrich?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ulrich, yes, she was around the corner from us, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She included a few of the community newsletters [in her papers], and she has letters in there that she wrote home to family and talked about all the different things that were going on at the rec center. Things like Thanksgiving dinners and different parties and events. I wonder if you would talk about some of those that you might recall, even if you didn’t participate. It seems like it was a real center of community for at least this area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I remember going. She started a library there, and that was of interest to me, because I’m a librarian of course. She started what grew into what is now the Freeman Library. I think the children’s room at the Freeman is dedicated in her honor. She lived around the corner from us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was the library in the rec center itself? I know there’s a whole bunch of different spaces in the building."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9814222377685176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ulrich, yes, she was around the corner from us, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She included a few of the community newsletters [in her papers], and she has letters in there that she wrote home to family and talked about all the different things that were going on at the rec center. Things like Thanksgiving dinners and different parties and events. I wonder if you would talk about some of those that you might recall, even if you didn’t participate. It seems like it was a real center of community for at least this area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I remember going. She started a library there, and that was of interest to me, because I’m a librarian of course. She started what grew into what is now the Freeman Library. I think the children’s room at the Freeman is dedicated in her honor. She lived around the corner from us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was the library in the rec center itself? I know there’s a whole bunch of different spaces in the building."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When Friendswood left there was a sales office that was right on the corner of where the tennis courts are now. They had a portable sales office. It was just a little small building. The Freeman Library started there. Then they made room for it right inside the rec center on one side of the rec center. Then they built the building later. So it started in the sales room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you end up volunteering there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:140", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6807681947759474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I remember going. She started a library there, and that was of interest to me, because I’m a librarian of course. She started what grew into what is now the Freeman Library. I think the children’s room at the Freeman is dedicated in her honor. She lived around the corner from us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was the library in the rec center itself? I know there’s a whole bunch of different spaces in the building."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When Friendswood left there was a sales office that was right on the corner of where the tennis courts are now. They had a portable sales office. It was just a little small building. The Freeman Library started there. Then they made room for it right inside the rec center on one side of the rec center. Then they built the building later. So it started in the sales room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you end up volunteering there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t, I was busy with my kids. I didn’t really get back into library work till my kids got older. I’ve always been a homebody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s okay. I’m kind of the same way."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:142", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.0897424386399415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When Friendswood left there was a sales office that was right on the corner of where the tennis courts are now. They had a portable sales office. It was just a little small building. The Freeman Library started there. Then they made room for it right inside the rec center on one side of the rec center. Then they built the building later. So it started in the sales room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you end up volunteering there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t, I was busy with my kids. I didn’t really get back into library work till my kids got older. I’ve always been a homebody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s okay. I’m kind of the same way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had to be there for the kids.\n\nI was traveling a lot. It would have been tough to try to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had also mentioned something in your history that you wrote, Betty, that I thought was fascinating, and that was if you bought a house here, you had a one-year membership to the country club. We moved here in 2003, and I think it had been closed. If you could talk about that, because that also seems like a space where there might have been a lot of community building going on. Did you ever go over there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:144", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.238329819807875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t, I was busy with my kids. I didn’t really get back into library work till my kids got older. I’ve always been a homebody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s okay. I’m kind of the same way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had to be there for the kids.\n\nI was traveling a lot. It would have been tough to try to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had also mentioned something in your history that you wrote, Betty, that I thought was fascinating, and that was if you bought a house here, you had a one-year membership to the country club. We moved here in 2003, and I think it had been closed. If you could talk about that, because that also seems like a space where there might have been a lot of community building going on. Did you ever go over there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mom was a champion golfer, so she was very happy about that. Yes, they gave us a year membership. Every Sunday afternoon they had a buffet. It was a free buffet for the residents. They had a swimming pool, and our kids would go swimming there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, another pool."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:146", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.598144244230972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had to be there for the kids.\n\nI was traveling a lot. It would have been tough to try to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had also mentioned something in your history that you wrote, Betty, that I thought was fascinating, and that was if you bought a house here, you had a one-year membership to the country club. We moved here in 2003, and I think it had been closed. If you could talk about that, because that also seems like a space where there might have been a lot of community building going on. Did you ever go over there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mom was a champion golfer, so she was very happy about that. Yes, they gave us a year membership. Every Sunday afternoon they had a buffet. It was a free buffet for the residents. They had a swimming pool, and our kids would go swimming there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, another pool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was very nice.\n\nIt was well kept up. I don’t think I played golf but a couple times.\n\nWe’re not golfers. My mom was very happy about it, but she was club champion for three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The country club, am I correct, was it off of Diana? Or was it off of—Ramada or Reseda? I’m trying to remember which way the roads run."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.997938049145524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mom was a champion golfer, so she was very happy about that. Yes, they gave us a year membership. Every Sunday afternoon they had a buffet. It was a free buffet for the residents. They had a swimming pool, and our kids would go swimming there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, another pool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was very nice.\n\nIt was well kept up. I don’t think I played golf but a couple times.\n\nWe’re not golfers. My mom was very happy about it, but she was club champion for three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The country club, am I correct, was it off of Diana? Or was it off of—Ramada or Reseda? I’m trying to remember which way the roads run."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where the rec center is now, you go down the same lot towards Ramada or Reseda."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I always forget those two."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.442153387939471, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was very nice.\n\nIt was well kept up. I don’t think I played golf but a couple times.\n\nWe’re not golfers. My mom was very happy about it, but she was club champion for three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The country club, am I correct, was it off of Diana? Or was it off of—Ramada or Reseda? I’m trying to remember which way the roads run."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where the rec center is now, you go down the same lot towards Ramada or Reseda."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I always forget those two."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I get them mixed up. But anyway it was on that corner where the retention pond is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that was the first phase [of Exploration Green]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.935725986599412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where the rec center is now, you go down the same lot towards Ramada or Reseda."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I always forget those two."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I get them mixed up. But anyway it was on that corner where the retention pond is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that was the first phase [of Exploration Green]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What was interesting, there were rumors that they were going to close the golf course, so they had some kind of a reunion. I remember going to a fancy dinner there. They were closing the golf course. A lot of the original people came to that dinner. Can’t remember when that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That might have been around when we purchased our house, because I think it was open for a short time, and they made the decision to close it. We bought in 2003, maybe 2004, 2005."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.0934888723449525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I get them mixed up. But anyway it was on that corner where the retention pond is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that was the first phase [of Exploration Green]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What was interesting, there were rumors that they were going to close the golf course, so they had some kind of a reunion. I remember going to a fancy dinner there. They were closing the golf course. A lot of the original people came to that dinner. Can’t remember when that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That might have been around when we purchased our house, because I think it was open for a short time, and they made the decision to close it. We bought in 2003, maybe 2004, 2005."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know we were disappointed, because we liked the golf course. We don’t golf, but it was a nice view. Did you guys know any old-timers or people who actually were from Webster, Seabrook, Kemah? Or was it literally all new people for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.517817383189235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What was interesting, there were rumors that they were going to close the golf course, so they had some kind of a reunion. I remember going to a fancy dinner there. They were closing the golf course. A lot of the original people came to that dinner. Can’t remember when that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That might have been around when we purchased our house, because I think it was open for a short time, and they made the decision to close it. We bought in 2003, maybe 2004, 2005."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know we were disappointed, because we liked the golf course. We don’t golf, but it was a nice view. Did you guys know any old-timers or people who actually were from Webster, Seabrook, Kemah? Or was it literally all new people for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything was NASA, new people.\n\nAll NASA, new people. Gradually there would be like some Exxon people, but most of the time they were all either NASA or contractor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty unusual to have such a brand-new community, I think, in the twentieth century. I kind of think it’s almost like a nineteenth century community in a way, because you guys were building this community almost from the ground up. Everything had to be established by all of you. But at the same time you were united by this one goal, which I think is really interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8375512622911674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know we were disappointed, because we liked the golf course. We don’t golf, but it was a nice view. Did you guys know any old-timers or people who actually were from Webster, Seabrook, Kemah? Or was it literally all new people for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything was NASA, new people.\n\nAll NASA, new people. Gradually there would be like some Exxon people, but most of the time they were all either NASA or contractor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty unusual to have such a brand-new community, I think, in the twentieth century. I kind of think it’s almost like a nineteenth century community in a way, because you guys were building this community almost from the ground up. Everything had to be established by all of you. But at the same time you were united by this one goal, which I think is really interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The churches—that was another place to connect with people, the church of course. When we moved here, Dick was Lutheran, and so there was House of Prayer Lutheran Church we belonged to.\n\nWhich was only block from the house.\n\nAs charter member. Yes. Dunkin’ Donuts is where the Lutheran church used to be. We were there five years. Then there were some problems, and we moved to this church now. A lot of our friends, of course, are here at this church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about the fact that there were so many families in this area too, because I think that helps to bring together people when you have young children running around. Like-minded people, and comparing my kid is doing this, is your kid doing the same thing. Or just having parties or just getting together to play. Although I think it’s a little different these days. I wonder how that might have contributed to building that community."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.263945846990186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything was NASA, new people.\n\nAll NASA, new people. Gradually there would be like some Exxon people, but most of the time they were all either NASA or contractor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty unusual to have such a brand-new community, I think, in the twentieth century. I kind of think it’s almost like a nineteenth century community in a way, because you guys were building this community almost from the ground up. Everything had to be established by all of you. But at the same time you were united by this one goal, which I think is really interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The churches—that was another place to connect with people, the church of course. When we moved here, Dick was Lutheran, and so there was House of Prayer Lutheran Church we belonged to.\n\nWhich was only block from the house.\n\nAs charter member. Yes. Dunkin’ Donuts is where the Lutheran church used to be. We were there five years. Then there were some problems, and we moved to this church now. A lot of our friends, of course, are here at this church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about the fact that there were so many families in this area too, because I think that helps to bring together people when you have young children running around. Like-minded people, and comparing my kid is doing this, is your kid doing the same thing. Or just having parties or just getting together to play. Although I think it’s a little different these days. I wonder how that might have contributed to building that community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You knew your children’s classmates in school, and we had room mothers, we’d have those connections. There were block mothers that when the kids were walking home from school you had a little sign in the window that you were a block mother, and that sort of thing.\n\nSafety if you had to run, you could run to one of those signs.\n\nThat wouldn’t work nowadays.\n\nNo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a block mom, right? That’s what Joan mentioned."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:166", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.737717607766873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The churches—that was another place to connect with people, the church of course. When we moved here, Dick was Lutheran, and so there was House of Prayer Lutheran Church we belonged to.\n\nWhich was only block from the house.\n\nAs charter member. Yes. Dunkin’ Donuts is where the Lutheran church used to be. We were there five years. Then there were some problems, and we moved to this church now. A lot of our friends, of course, are here at this church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about the fact that there were so many families in this area too, because I think that helps to bring together people when you have young children running around. Like-minded people, and comparing my kid is doing this, is your kid doing the same thing. Or just having parties or just getting together to play. Although I think it’s a little different these days. I wonder how that might have contributed to building that community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You knew your children’s classmates in school, and we had room mothers, we’d have those connections. There were block mothers that when the kids were walking home from school you had a little sign in the window that you were a block mother, and that sort of thing.\n\nSafety if you had to run, you could run to one of those signs.\n\nThat wouldn’t work nowadays.\n\nNo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a block mom, right? That’s what Joan mentioned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You knew all the neighborhood kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that Clear Lake City Elementary had school at the rec center one year."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:170", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 5.264130675296526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You knew your children’s classmates in school, and we had room mothers, we’d have those connections. There were block mothers that when the kids were walking home from school you had a little sign in the window that you were a block mother, and that sort of thing.\n\nSafety if you had to run, you could run to one of those signs.\n\nThat wouldn’t work nowadays.\n\nNo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a block mom, right? That’s what Joan mentioned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You knew all the neighborhood kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that Clear Lake City Elementary had school at the rec center one year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One year, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they house the kids in the gym? Or was it in some of the—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.4045896392183619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You knew all the neighborhood kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that Clear Lake City Elementary had school at the rec center one year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One year, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they house the kids in the gym? Or was it in some of the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where the office buildings are now. During the day, I don’t know how many grades they had. John was in first grade. Then after school there was a dance school, Jill Rauscher’s dance school. Her mother actually. My daughter started dance there when she was six or seven maybe. Jill is still here in the community. My granddaughter teaches in that school now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, does she?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.49949338175106417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One year, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they house the kids in the gym? Or was it in some of the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where the office buildings are now. During the day, I don’t know how many grades they had. John was in first grade. Then after school there was a dance school, Jill Rauscher’s dance school. Her mother actually. My daughter started dance there when she was six or seven maybe. Jill is still here in the community. My granddaughter teaches in that school now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, does she?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my granddaughter is 21, she’ll be, and she’s one of the instructors at the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Houston really became your home."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6851761066544089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where the office buildings are now. During the day, I don’t know how many grades they had. John was in first grade. Then after school there was a dance school, Jill Rauscher’s dance school. Her mother actually. My daughter started dance there when she was six or seven maybe. Jill is still here in the community. My granddaughter teaches in that school now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, does she?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my granddaughter is 21, she’ll be, and she’s one of the instructors at the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Houston really became your home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes.\n\nOh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about wanting to be part of a new hometown, and it really did for both of you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8458964279684059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my granddaughter is 21, she’ll be, and she’s one of the instructors at the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Houston really became your home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes.\n\nOh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about wanting to be part of a new hometown, and it really did for both of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were far enough from Houston proper that we were like a little community. We had the advantages of the big stores downtown but we had the advantage of the neighborhood.\n\nSmall town.\n\nOriginally after we moved in, one of the things that was always interesting is the cattle would get away from wherever they were fenced off and go walking down the street in front of your house. It was interesting to see the country and the city intermix there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is interesting. You would not see that today."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.289279725603423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes.\n\nOh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about wanting to be part of a new hometown, and it really did for both of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were far enough from Houston proper that we were like a little community. We had the advantages of the big stores downtown but we had the advantage of the neighborhood.\n\nSmall town.\n\nOriginally after we moved in, one of the things that was always interesting is the cattle would get away from wherever they were fenced off and go walking down the street in front of your house. It was interesting to see the country and the city intermix there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is interesting. You would not see that today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, all kinds of rules and things.\n\nAnd snakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And snakes. Did you guys have a lot of problems with insects? I was curious about that. Was that something you had issues with?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:190", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5917033649424972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, all kinds of rules and things.\n\nAnd snakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And snakes. Did you guys have a lot of problems with insects? I was curious about that. Was that something you had issues with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We came from the Midwest, where there are no bugs outside of mosquitoes. One of the first few nights in our house we had a roach problem, and we didn’t know what they were.\n\nOne flew off. The little sucker jumped and landed on her.\n\nIn my hair.\n\nIn the middle of the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yuck."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was new for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine lots of Raid."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6955636250275146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We came from the Midwest, where there are no bugs outside of mosquitoes. One of the first few nights in our house we had a roach problem, and we didn’t know what they were.\n\nOne flew off. The little sucker jumped and landed on her.\n\nIn my hair.\n\nIn the middle of the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yuck."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was new for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine lots of Raid."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We never had any trouble with snakes, although we found a dead one every once in a while in the street. They didn’t learn how to cross the street, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you seeing other animals like alligators or skunks?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:200", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7994550967715166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We never had any trouble with snakes, although we found a dead one every once in a while in the street. They didn’t learn how to cross the street, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you seeing other animals like alligators or skunks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s an alligator that’s still there. I think he’s still there. The ditch by the golf course.\n\nThe kids going to school, most kids walked to school. They’d go over the bridge.\n\nGo over the bridge with the alligator.\n\nThat was a concern.\n\nProbably not the smartest thing in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s unusual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s coyotes that roam the present golf course at night still to this day, people that live on the course, and then they got the wild hogs.\n\nThat’s further down.\n\nYes, it’s not where our house was, but it was further towards the other side, that still dig up neighborhood yards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did not know that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:202", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1105056630794627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s an alligator that’s still there. I think he’s still there. The ditch by the golf course.\n\nThe kids going to school, most kids walked to school. They’d go over the bridge.\n\nGo over the bridge with the alligator.\n\nThat was a concern.\n\nProbably not the smartest thing in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s unusual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s coyotes that roam the present golf course at night still to this day, people that live on the course, and then they got the wild hogs.\n\nThat’s further down.\n\nYes, it’s not where our house was, but it was further towards the other side, that still dig up neighborhood yards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did not know that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they still have them.\n\nOne day that new shopping center, what is it, HEB?\n\nHEB is up that way.\n\nWe were driving up there and a herd of—if they’re herds—about five or six went running across the road. They had been messing around where the houses were right there.\n\nThey tear up the landscaping and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well, that’s good to know."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:208", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.345006292310514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s coyotes that roam the present golf course at night still to this day, people that live on the course, and then they got the wild hogs.\n\nThat’s further down.\n\nYes, it’s not where our house was, but it was further towards the other side, that still dig up neighborhood yards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did not know that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they still have them.\n\nOne day that new shopping center, what is it, HEB?\n\nHEB is up that way.\n\nWe were driving up there and a herd of—if they’re herds—about five or six went running across the road. They had been messing around where the houses were right there.\n\nThey tear up the landscaping and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well, that’s good to know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just five years ago or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would have thought by now most of the wildlife was in another area."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:212", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.605562547011682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they still have them.\n\nOne day that new shopping center, what is it, HEB?\n\nHEB is up that way.\n\nWe were driving up there and a herd of—if they’re herds—about five or six went running across the road. They had been messing around where the houses were right there.\n\nThey tear up the landscaping and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well, that’s good to know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just five years ago or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would have thought by now most of the wildlife was in another area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think those hogs are very conducive to reproduction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask a little bit more about the schools. You volunteered, Betty, in the schools as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:218", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.971288747160009, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just five years ago or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would have thought by now most of the wildlife was in another area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think those hogs are very conducive to reproduction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask a little bit more about the schools. You volunteered, Betty, in the schools as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in the library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know was there an emphasis at all on space? Was there any interest in space books or any space programs you recall? Maybe, Dick, did you ever go over to the school and talk about what you were doing at NASA? Or were you too busy?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:220", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.902825613777789, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think those hogs are very conducive to reproduction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask a little bit more about the schools. You volunteered, Betty, in the schools as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in the library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know was there an emphasis at all on space? Was there any interest in space books or any space programs you recall? Maybe, Dick, did you ever go over to the school and talk about what you were doing at NASA? Or were you too busy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was just a cultural thing that everybody knew about it, and so we just sort of—“Oh, your dad is an astronaut, so what.”\n\nMost people knew each other from work.\n\nFamilies.\n\nOne of my bosses was right down the street. I think it was just sort of normal. We worked, we came home, and then we did other stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So no big deal for folks. No differentiation for the kids between I’m an astronaut kid while your dad is an engineer."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:222", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.447584015308654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in the library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know was there an emphasis at all on space? Was there any interest in space books or any space programs you recall? Maybe, Dick, did you ever go over to the school and talk about what you were doing at NASA? Or were you too busy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was just a cultural thing that everybody knew about it, and so we just sort of—“Oh, your dad is an astronaut, so what.”\n\nMost people knew each other from work.\n\nFamilies.\n\nOne of my bosses was right down the street. I think it was just sort of normal. We worked, we came home, and then we did other stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So no big deal for folks. No differentiation for the kids between I’m an astronaut kid while your dad is an engineer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so.\n\nI don’t think so. I was in a bridge club for a while, and two of the ladies were astronauts’ wives, two or three of them I remember. But then I got tired of bridge so I dropped out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask about that, because that seems to be a popular card game. People don’t really play bridge anymore. But back then I think people did a lot more."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:224", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.054226739695264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was just a cultural thing that everybody knew about it, and so we just sort of—“Oh, your dad is an astronaut, so what.”\n\nMost people knew each other from work.\n\nFamilies.\n\nOne of my bosses was right down the street. I think it was just sort of normal. We worked, we came home, and then we did other stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So no big deal for folks. No differentiation for the kids between I’m an astronaut kid while your dad is an engineer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so.\n\nI don’t think so. I was in a bridge club for a while, and two of the ladies were astronauts’ wives, two or three of them I remember. But then I got tired of bridge so I dropped out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask about that, because that seems to be a popular card game. People don’t really play bridge anymore. But back then I think people did a lot more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. At the Crossings they have some big bridge players there, where we live now, because they’re all our age. We have a cardroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you have a cardroom?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.536082394685511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so.\n\nI don’t think so. I was in a bridge club for a while, and two of the ladies were astronauts’ wives, two or three of them I remember. But then I got tired of bridge so I dropped out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask about that, because that seems to be a popular card game. People don’t really play bridge anymore. But back then I think people did a lot more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. At the Crossings they have some big bridge players there, where we live now, because they’re all our age. We have a cardroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you have a cardroom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nThere’s a lot of sheepshead players out in Rockwell Downey, they used to have sheepshead games out there. That’s a card game.\n\nThat’s a Midwestern card game.\n\nIt’s a German card game. One of the contractors that was supporting Rockwell International was AC Electronics, is that what they’re called?\n\nYes.\n\nThey were from Milwaukee.\n\nThat’s where he was from.\n\nWhere we grew up, or I grew up.\n\nWhere he grew up, yes.\n\nWe got together whenever I was out there and played cards in the evening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they ever bring you anything from the Midwest? My in-laws and my husband is originally from Wisconsin."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:232", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0603099031067598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. At the Crossings they have some big bridge players there, where we live now, because they’re all our age. We have a cardroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you have a cardroom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nThere’s a lot of sheepshead players out in Rockwell Downey, they used to have sheepshead games out there. That’s a card game.\n\nThat’s a Midwestern card game.\n\nIt’s a German card game. One of the contractors that was supporting Rockwell International was AC Electronics, is that what they’re called?\n\nYes.\n\nThey were from Milwaukee.\n\nThat’s where he was from.\n\nWhere we grew up, or I grew up.\n\nWhere he grew up, yes.\n\nWe got together whenever I was out there and played cards in the evening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they ever bring you anything from the Midwest? My in-laws and my husband is originally from Wisconsin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh.\n\nOh, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I’m trying to think of the dessert. There’s a dessert out there they stock up on. [A kringle]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:234", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.667049263094765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nThere’s a lot of sheepshead players out in Rockwell Downey, they used to have sheepshead games out there. That’s a card game.\n\nThat’s a Midwestern card game.\n\nIt’s a German card game. One of the contractors that was supporting Rockwell International was AC Electronics, is that what they’re called?\n\nYes.\n\nThey were from Milwaukee.\n\nThat’s where he was from.\n\nWhere we grew up, or I grew up.\n\nWhere he grew up, yes.\n\nWe got together whenever I was out there and played cards in the evening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they ever bring you anything from the Midwest? My in-laws and my husband is originally from Wisconsin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh.\n\nOh, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I’m trying to think of the dessert. There’s a dessert out there they stock up on. [A kringle]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sounds German or something.\n\nSounds German.\n\nI grew up in a Norwegian house with all Norwegian stuff.\n\nHe’s Norwegian.\n\nMine was all Norwegian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they bring you anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9633880701052946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh.\n\nOh, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I’m trying to think of the dessert. There’s a dessert out there they stock up on. [A kringle]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sounds German or something.\n\nSounds German.\n\nI grew up in a Norwegian house with all Norwegian stuff.\n\nHe’s Norwegian.\n\nMine was all Norwegian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they bring you anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lutefisk.\n\nNo, that’s another thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn’t sound like Betty liked that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:248", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.292653411228105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sounds German or something.\n\nSounds German.\n\nI grew up in a Norwegian house with all Norwegian stuff.\n\nHe’s Norwegian.\n\nMine was all Norwegian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they bring you anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lutefisk.\n\nNo, that’s another thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn’t sound like Betty liked that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it’s terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask about childcare because even in your history you talk about how it was a real issue even for the church because there were so many kids that the church wasn’t necessarily equipped to handle it. How did the moms handle it in a day and age when day care really wasn’t a thing? Did you rely on all the other mothers?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:254", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5473926791423387, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lutefisk.\n\nNo, that’s another thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn’t sound like Betty liked that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it’s terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask about childcare because even in your history you talk about how it was a real issue even for the church because there were so many kids that the church wasn’t necessarily equipped to handle it. How did the moms handle it in a day and age when day care really wasn’t a thing? Did you rely on all the other mothers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Number one is not as many mothers were working. Most moms were home. Then slowly, like my mom that moved here, slowly their parents would come down here and retire. In the church, like I wrote about in the history, that’s how Mother’s Day Out started, because other mothers would help other mothers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something that you were involved in? You were a newer member at that point, but was that something that you joined in on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4943658150100667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it’s terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask about childcare because even in your history you talk about how it was a real issue even for the church because there were so many kids that the church wasn’t necessarily equipped to handle it. How did the moms handle it in a day and age when day care really wasn’t a thing? Did you rely on all the other mothers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Number one is not as many mothers were working. Most moms were home. Then slowly, like my mom that moved here, slowly their parents would come down here and retire. In the church, like I wrote about in the history, that’s how Mother’s Day Out started, because other mothers would help other mothers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something that you were involved in? You were a newer member at that point, but was that something that you joined in on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As our kids got a little bit older, as teenagers, then they got involved in the Mother’s Day Out program, which was childcare. There weren’t any commercial childcare places. There weren’t any. You either shared with your friends or your church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a complication, if you need to go somewhere and really need help."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2140354874935513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Number one is not as many mothers were working. Most moms were home. Then slowly, like my mom that moved here, slowly their parents would come down here and retire. In the church, like I wrote about in the history, that’s how Mother’s Day Out started, because other mothers would help other mothers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something that you were involved in? You were a newer member at that point, but was that something that you joined in on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As our kids got a little bit older, as teenagers, then they got involved in the Mother’s Day Out program, which was childcare. There weren’t any commercial childcare places. There weren’t any. You either shared with your friends or your church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a complication, if you need to go somewhere and really need help."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. If you had a doctor’s appointment, or somebody gets sick or something.\n\nThere weren’t too many doctors around either.\n\nNo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you find out who to go to? If you were all new, how did you figure out who was the best person? Did you have any options in the area?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7494885391684045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As our kids got a little bit older, as teenagers, then they got involved in the Mother’s Day Out program, which was childcare. There weren’t any commercial childcare places. There weren’t any. You either shared with your friends or your church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a complication, if you need to go somewhere and really need help."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. If you had a doctor’s appointment, or somebody gets sick or something.\n\nThere weren’t too many doctors around either.\n\nNo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you find out who to go to? If you were all new, how did you figure out who was the best person? Did you have any options in the area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too many options.\n\nOne.\n\nClear Creek Clinic in League City had three or four doctors. We stayed with them till this past year. Things changed in the practice.\n\nWe didn’t have any hospitals in the area.\n\nNo hospitals, no. You had to go into Houston if you were seriously ill. You had to go to Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever go down to Galveston for medical care? Or primarily you just went up into Houston?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.166098376853783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. If you had a doctor’s appointment, or somebody gets sick or something.\n\nThere weren’t too many doctors around either.\n\nNo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you find out who to go to? If you were all new, how did you figure out who was the best person? Did you have any options in the area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too many options.\n\nOne.\n\nClear Creek Clinic in League City had three or four doctors. We stayed with them till this past year. Things changed in the practice.\n\nWe didn’t have any hospitals in the area.\n\nNo hospitals, no. You had to go into Houston if you were seriously ill. You had to go to Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever go down to Galveston for medical care? Or primarily you just went up into Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think we ever went down there.\n\nI don’t think we did.\n\nNASA had their own set of doctors, so the employees got yearly physicals.\n\nBut not the families.\n\nNot the families. But the doctors used you as guinea pigs. We were on treadmills just like a chipmunk or something with masks on and all that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s fascinating."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.628998196504203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too many options.\n\nOne.\n\nClear Creek Clinic in League City had three or four doctors. We stayed with them till this past year. Things changed in the practice.\n\nWe didn’t have any hospitals in the area.\n\nNo hospitals, no. You had to go into Houston if you were seriously ill. You had to go to Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever go down to Galveston for medical care? Or primarily you just went up into Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think we ever went down there.\n\nI don’t think we did.\n\nNASA had their own set of doctors, so the employees got yearly physicals.\n\nBut not the families.\n\nNot the families. But the doctors used you as guinea pigs. We were on treadmills just like a chipmunk or something with masks on and all that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s fascinating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess we were the base[line] for astronauts later on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The baseline, oh, that’s funny. That’s a nice perk for being a civil servant, that you have that access to that medical care."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.721990849724438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think we ever went down there.\n\nI don’t think we did.\n\nNASA had their own set of doctors, so the employees got yearly physicals.\n\nBut not the families.\n\nNot the families. But the doctors used you as guinea pigs. We were on treadmills just like a chipmunk or something with masks on and all that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s fascinating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess we were the base[line] for astronauts later on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The baseline, oh, that’s funny. That’s a nice perk for being a civil servant, that you have that access to that medical care."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Matter of fact, Joan was helping. She was doing that at NASA. I’m sure she told you. She took blood from me many times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They’ve got your data? I wanted to ask you about neighborhood traditions. I’ve heard in Timber Cove for Apollo 8 they started putting out the luminaries, and they do a few other things. Were there any traditions in Oakbrook around the space program, or maybe just holidays like Fourth of July or Christmas, Thanksgiving? I think Joan mentioned some parades that you guys would have."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.192113075114629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess we were the base[line] for astronauts later on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The baseline, oh, that’s funny. That’s a nice perk for being a civil servant, that you have that access to that medical care."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Matter of fact, Joan was helping. She was doing that at NASA. I’m sure she told you. She took blood from me many times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They’ve got your data? I wanted to ask you about neighborhood traditions. I’ve heard in Timber Cove for Apollo 8 they started putting out the luminaries, and they do a few other things. Were there any traditions in Oakbrook around the space program, or maybe just holidays like Fourth of July or Christmas, Thanksgiving? I think Joan mentioned some parades that you guys would have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I think that was around—I don’t know what the occasion was. Yes, they had some small neighborhood parades, and our granddaughter was on the float, stuff like that.\n\nWe used to have block parties that the police would let us.\n\nThere’s one neighborhood over where Hal [Harold A.] Loden lives. They had a lot of traditions on Bowline, I remember. You might want to talk to him too. Hal Loden. He is a member here, a charter member of this church.\n\nHe was a flight controller. Different viewpoint than engineers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, absolutely, yes, I like talking to different people, because people have different memories of what things were like and different experiences as well. Did you guys ever see any tour buses in your area? I know that there were some that came down. They were looking for astronaut homes. My understanding, there were a few astronauts who lived in Clear Lake."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:288", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.141850265215654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember any tour buses.\n\nNo.\n\nWe were on a one-block street, so that wouldn’t be a major traffic route at all.\n\nI’m not sure if we had any neighbors that were astronauts in Oakbrook. I don’t think so. The early astronauts came at a time when they’d move into Timber Cove or some of those neighborhoods over there, so I don’t think we had any in our neighborhood.\n\nI don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I had seen in a few of the newsletters. Unfortunately didn’t keep a complete set. It’s just a few in there. They mentioned a few of the astronauts were—can’t remember the names. They probably came like in ’66 or somewhere back there. They probably weren’t flying much in Apollo. I wanted to ask you, Dick, if you had a chance to be active in the community much at all in the ’60s. Did you join any groups? Or did you help your kids with sport leagues or Scouts, anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I had an awful lot of travel, so travel and church here. I didn’t do anything.\n\nJohn was an Indian Guide for a while, and he did that for a while.\n\nYes, we did Indian Guides.\n\nI did Girl Scouts.\n\nWe camped a couple times.\n\nIndian Guides was for sons and fathers only. I don’t think they exist anymore.\n\nProbably not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve never heard of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were like a Scout kind of thing, but the emphasis was father-son. I did Brownies and Girl Scouts with my daughter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a troop leader?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:294", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.4909447391285044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I had an awful lot of travel, so travel and church here. I didn’t do anything.\n\nJohn was an Indian Guide for a while, and he did that for a while.\n\nYes, we did Indian Guides.\n\nI did Girl Scouts.\n\nWe camped a couple times.\n\nIndian Guides was for sons and fathers only. I don’t think they exist anymore.\n\nProbably not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve never heard of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were like a Scout kind of thing, but the emphasis was father-son. I did Brownies and Girl Scouts with my daughter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a troop leader?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a Brownie leader."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice that you were able to do that. Were you active in the Clear Lake Women’s Society of Christian Service? I’ve read about that in your history as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:302", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.1823658972956164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were like a Scout kind of thing, but the emphasis was father-son. I did Brownies and Girl Scouts with my daughter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a troop leader?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a Brownie leader."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice that you were able to do that. Were you active in the Clear Lake Women’s Society of Christian Service? I’ve read about that in your history as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It’s now United Methodist Women. Yes, I was real active."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about the work that you did? I know you joined a little later. Would you talk about some of the volunteer work that you did during the ’60s?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:304", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.4303702138326725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a Brownie leader."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice that you were able to do that. Were you active in the Clear Lake Women’s Society of Christian Service? I’ve read about that in your history as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It’s now United Methodist Women. Yes, I was real active."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about the work that you did? I know you joined a little later. Would you talk about some of the volunteer work that you did during the ’60s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we moved to this church I started the library. The Brownie troop met here, and I was room mother for many years at school. Then when both of the granddaughters started school, I was a room mother for both of them as well. They don’t do much of that anymore, I don’t think, where they have parties in a classroom and that sort of thing.\n\nWhat about the library? Did you get in the school library? I did later on.\n\nYes, we both volunteered in the Clear Lake Elementary School library. Did story time and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about the teachers at Clear Lake City Elementary. Were they primarily wives of people who worked at NASA? Do you recall? It seems like so many people have those ties."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:306", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.4781891264807472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It’s now United Methodist Women. Yes, I was real active."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about the work that you did? I know you joined a little later. Would you talk about some of the volunteer work that you did during the ’60s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we moved to this church I started the library. The Brownie troop met here, and I was room mother for many years at school. Then when both of the granddaughters started school, I was a room mother for both of them as well. They don’t do much of that anymore, I don’t think, where they have parties in a classroom and that sort of thing.\n\nWhat about the library? Did you get in the school library? I did later on.\n\nYes, we both volunteered in the Clear Lake Elementary School library. Did story time and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about the teachers at Clear Lake City Elementary. Were they primarily wives of people who worked at NASA? Do you recall? It seems like so many people have those ties."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember wives. Clear Creek School District is pretty big.\n\nYes, it was well established in League City and that area. I don’t remember.\n\nCan’t think of any.\n\nThey had some really good teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you guys think of the educational system when you got here? Were you happy with it? Was it comparable to what you had in Virginia?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:308", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9997746723442009, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we moved to this church I started the library. The Brownie troop met here, and I was room mother for many years at school. Then when both of the granddaughters started school, I was a room mother for both of them as well. They don’t do much of that anymore, I don’t think, where they have parties in a classroom and that sort of thing.\n\nWhat about the library? Did you get in the school library? I did later on.\n\nYes, we both volunteered in the Clear Lake Elementary School library. Did story time and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about the teachers at Clear Lake City Elementary. Were they primarily wives of people who worked at NASA? Do you recall? It seems like so many people have those ties."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember wives. Clear Creek School District is pretty big.\n\nYes, it was well established in League City and that area. I don’t remember.\n\nCan’t think of any.\n\nThey had some really good teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you guys think of the educational system when you got here? Were you happy with it? Was it comparable to what you had in Virginia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was better. John just went to one year of school in Virginia, but the school system here was more advanced. I think coming from educated parents, it was a different level of what they expected from schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you went to the House of Prayer, because Dick, you’re Lutheran, or you were Lutheran, now you’re Methodist. What attracted you to the church besides the fact that you were Lutheran?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:312", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3714330210482866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember wives. Clear Creek School District is pretty big.\n\nYes, it was well established in League City and that area. I don’t remember.\n\nCan’t think of any.\n\nThey had some really good teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you guys think of the educational system when you got here? Were you happy with it? Was it comparable to what you had in Virginia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was better. John just went to one year of school in Virginia, but the school system here was more advanced. I think coming from educated parents, it was a different level of what they expected from schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you went to the House of Prayer, because Dick, you’re Lutheran, or you were Lutheran, now you’re Methodist. What attracted you to the church besides the fact that you were Lutheran?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was only one block away from the house.\n\nAt that time the ministers would come to your home and visit with you. It was different than now.\n\nThe minister lived one block away.\n\nOne block over, yes. They were a pretty close community.\n\nOf course a large percentage of the people in the church were—\n\nFrom somewhere else.\n\nCame from somewhere else and were with the same program we were with. That helped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What attracted you to the Clear Lake United Methodist Church?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5805931816481724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was only one block away from the house.\n\nAt that time the ministers would come to your home and visit with you. It was different than now.\n\nThe minister lived one block away.\n\nOne block over, yes. They were a pretty close community.\n\nOf course a large percentage of the people in the church were—\n\nFrom somewhere else.\n\nCame from somewhere else and were with the same program we were with. That helped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What attracted you to the Clear Lake United Methodist Church?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Lutheran church was having some serious problems with leadership, and we kept hearing our neighbors behind us and next door, that there was a good youth program here. We thought this was where we wanted to bring our family, because of the children’s programs and youth program.\n\nThe Lutheran church, that particular church, was struggling at that point. Its minister had walked off, so they had some problems.\n\nWe don’t need to get into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The new church gave us a new start, and gave her a library to start.\n\nWe got really involved. He ran the sound system and [became] head usher and that sort of thing.\n\nHead usher and all that. That’s gone on for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you can talk about how the space program, Apollo, NASA, what have you impacted the churches, in what ways."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.8673257573868582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Lutheran church was having some serious problems with leadership, and we kept hearing our neighbors behind us and next door, that there was a good youth program here. We thought this was where we wanted to bring our family, because of the children’s programs and youth program.\n\nThe Lutheran church, that particular church, was struggling at that point. Its minister had walked off, so they had some problems.\n\nWe don’t need to get into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The new church gave us a new start, and gave her a library to start.\n\nWe got really involved. He ran the sound system and [became] head usher and that sort of thing.\n\nHead usher and all that. That’s gone on for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you can talk about how the space program, Apollo, NASA, what have you impacted the churches, in what ways."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Churches wouldn’t be here without it. The whole foundation is NASA people I think. We’ve gotten, of course, diversified over the years. I think the soul if you will of the church was NASA.\n\nThat brought a whole flock of pretty highly educated folks in. It’s not a country church. It’s a fairly highly educated church.\n\n[Higher] expectations too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you expand on what you mean by that, Dick? Having these highly educated folks come in. What impact does that have on the church compared to more of a rural [church]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1623325668290034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The new church gave us a new start, and gave her a library to start.\n\nWe got really involved. He ran the sound system and [became] head usher and that sort of thing.\n\nHead usher and all that. That’s gone on for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you can talk about how the space program, Apollo, NASA, what have you impacted the churches, in what ways."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Churches wouldn’t be here without it. The whole foundation is NASA people I think. We’ve gotten, of course, diversified over the years. I think the soul if you will of the church was NASA.\n\nThat brought a whole flock of pretty highly educated folks in. It’s not a country church. It’s a fairly highly educated church.\n\n[Higher] expectations too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you expand on what you mean by that, Dick? Having these highly educated folks come in. What impact does that have on the church compared to more of a rural [church]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they probably question the church, make the church explain things better. Like the group that was meeting over here, they get together. There’s a lot of ex-NASA people there. They had a common core. They travel periodically to different places together, more fellowship. That was something that a lot of people had in common."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a lot of joyous times in the ’60s, a lot of firsts for the space program: first rendezvous, docking, first lunar landing. I wonder if you would talk about the role the churches played in some of those events, if anything really stands out to you in terms of how things might have been celebrated or just captured within the church."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.513702852032226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Churches wouldn’t be here without it. The whole foundation is NASA people I think. We’ve gotten, of course, diversified over the years. I think the soul if you will of the church was NASA.\n\nThat brought a whole flock of pretty highly educated folks in. It’s not a country church. It’s a fairly highly educated church.\n\n[Higher] expectations too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you expand on what you mean by that, Dick? Having these highly educated folks come in. What impact does that have on the church compared to more of a rural [church]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they probably question the church, make the church explain things better. Like the group that was meeting over here, they get together. There’s a lot of ex-NASA people there. They had a common core. They travel periodically to different places together, more fellowship. That was something that a lot of people had in common."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a lot of joyous times in the ’60s, a lot of firsts for the space program: first rendezvous, docking, first lunar landing. I wonder if you would talk about the role the churches played in some of those events, if anything really stands out to you in terms of how things might have been celebrated or just captured within the church."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we showed you the memorabilia we had out here the last time. I think the church is so different now because it’s so broad. Way back then almost everyone was part of NASA or a contractor. It was like a college fellowship type thing.\n\nWhen things went bad we also pulled together. When the accidents happened. We had one of the services here for one of the astronauts that died.\n\nThat was an interesting one. I was head usher at the time and sound guy. We were planning how we were going to do this. NASA security came and they said that it’s going to be very difficult to control things, who’s coming and all that.\n\nSecuritywise.\n\nWe never thought of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall which event that was for?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.028444004160434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they probably question the church, make the church explain things better. Like the group that was meeting over here, they get together. There’s a lot of ex-NASA people there. They had a common core. They travel periodically to different places together, more fellowship. That was something that a lot of people had in common."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a lot of joyous times in the ’60s, a lot of firsts for the space program: first rendezvous, docking, first lunar landing. I wonder if you would talk about the role the churches played in some of those events, if anything really stands out to you in terms of how things might have been celebrated or just captured within the church."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we showed you the memorabilia we had out here the last time. I think the church is so different now because it’s so broad. Way back then almost everyone was part of NASA or a contractor. It was like a college fellowship type thing.\n\nWhen things went bad we also pulled together. When the accidents happened. We had one of the services here for one of the astronauts that died.\n\nThat was an interesting one. I was head usher at the time and sound guy. We were planning how we were going to do this. NASA security came and they said that it’s going to be very difficult to control things, who’s coming and all that.\n\nSecuritywise.\n\nWe never thought of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall which event that was for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mike. Gosh. Can’t think of his name now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it from STS-107? Or was it Challenger? Mike [Michael J.] Smith?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0568504858167818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mike. Gosh. Can’t think of his name now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it from STS-107? Or was it Challenger? Mike [Michael J.] Smith?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first one.\n\nChallenger.\n\nChallenger, was it? Or was it the second one?\n\nI’m not too sure whether the astronaut that was being—\n\nMike.\n\n—buried was actually from our church or we were just the biggest church in the area that had space.\n\nBut his son was in MYF [Methodist Youth Fellowship] though. That’s what their connection was.\n\nThat’s true. But they ended up canceling it anyway, didn’t they?\n\nWe had a service for this guy, because I have a recording of it.\n\nSomehow they downplayed it so we wouldn’t have a flock of people.\n\nAnd the press, I can remember.\n\nPress was obnoxious sometimes.\n\nThey’d find out that somebody in your church is—something’s happened. They just descend and they just really destroy privacy. We had a string of teen suicides in Clear Lake. A number of the funerals were here, and the press was awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was one of my questions for you, because you did have a couple of astronauts that were on pretty important missions. The first was Al [Alan L.] Bean, who was a charter member here. By then you both were members, I believe. I was wondering what was the media attention like. Do you remember the media coming to service or talking to members about Al Bean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fred [W.] Haise. I don’t think we were that involved in the church yet. We were kind of not quite involved right away. Fred Haise was one of the early ones.\n\nI do not remember ever having a mob of photographer press in the church service. That might be one, if you talk to Hal Loden, he might know a little bit about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious. The church and the press, it doesn’t seem like it meshes very well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.396500539796424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first one.\n\nChallenger.\n\nChallenger, was it? Or was it the second one?\n\nI’m not too sure whether the astronaut that was being—\n\nMike.\n\n—buried was actually from our church or we were just the biggest church in the area that had space.\n\nBut his son was in MYF [Methodist Youth Fellowship] though. That’s what their connection was.\n\nThat’s true. But they ended up canceling it anyway, didn’t they?\n\nWe had a service for this guy, because I have a recording of it.\n\nSomehow they downplayed it so we wouldn’t have a flock of people.\n\nAnd the press, I can remember.\n\nPress was obnoxious sometimes.\n\nThey’d find out that somebody in your church is—something’s happened. They just descend and they just really destroy privacy. We had a string of teen suicides in Clear Lake. A number of the funerals were here, and the press was awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was one of my questions for you, because you did have a couple of astronauts that were on pretty important missions. The first was Al [Alan L.] Bean, who was a charter member here. By then you both were members, I believe. I was wondering what was the media attention like. Do you remember the media coming to service or talking to members about Al Bean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fred [W.] Haise. I don’t think we were that involved in the church yet. We were kind of not quite involved right away. Fred Haise was one of the early ones.\n\nI do not remember ever having a mob of photographer press in the church service. That might be one, if you talk to Hal Loden, he might know a little bit about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious. The church and the press, it doesn’t seem like it meshes very well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The sanctuary and things like that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7738894886626935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fred [W.] Haise. I don’t think we were that involved in the church yet. We were kind of not quite involved right away. Fred Haise was one of the early ones.\n\nI do not remember ever having a mob of photographer press in the church service. That might be one, if you talk to Hal Loden, he might know a little bit about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious. The church and the press, it doesn’t seem like it meshes very well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The sanctuary and things like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because when you’re having a funeral it should be a personal worship time and not flashbulbs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, but I can almost see the media showing up. The Webster Presbyterian Church talked about how when they were having Lunar Communion, for instance, the media just showed up and they were there. I can’t imagine how distracting that must have been for the congregation, for that special moment, to have media there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:366", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.954580917232774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The sanctuary and things like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because when you’re having a funeral it should be a personal worship time and not flashbulbs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, but I can almost see the media showing up. The Webster Presbyterian Church talked about how when they were having Lunar Communion, for instance, the media just showed up and they were there. I can’t imagine how distracting that must have been for the congregation, for that special moment, to have media there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Private moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you about your memories of the Apollo 1 fire and the impact that it had on the community here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:368", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1717565747030827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because when you’re having a funeral it should be a personal worship time and not flashbulbs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, but I can almost see the media showing up. The Webster Presbyterian Church talked about how when they were having Lunar Communion, for instance, the media just showed up and they were there. I can’t imagine how distracting that must have been for the congregation, for that special moment, to have media there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Private moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you about your memories of the Apollo 1 fire and the impact that it had on the community here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was emotional.\n\nYes. I think the engineers took it very personal, because they feel like what could we have done better. The same thing for the other two accidents too. It really hit hard. I remember we were in a staff meeting when the last accident happened. Benita Bridges called me and she said, “Something terrible has happened,” Roy Bridges’s wife. He was one of the astronauts. She worked with me in the library. It was very personal.\n\nThe Cape [Kennedy, Florida], for the fire, we had a closed-door meeting, and they played the tapes of the sound of what was going on. It was horrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been. Did you help with the investigation?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:370", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9790899515817317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Private moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you about your memories of the Apollo 1 fire and the impact that it had on the community here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was emotional.\n\nYes. I think the engineers took it very personal, because they feel like what could we have done better. The same thing for the other two accidents too. It really hit hard. I remember we were in a staff meeting when the last accident happened. Benita Bridges called me and she said, “Something terrible has happened,” Roy Bridges’s wife. He was one of the astronauts. She worked with me in the library. It was very personal.\n\nThe Cape [Kennedy, Florida], for the fire, we had a closed-door meeting, and they played the tapes of the sound of what was going on. It was horrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been. Did you help with the investigation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think they knew what it was rather quickly, so it wasn’t anything that I had worked on, so no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact do you think it had on the community here in Clear Lake, this community that was so focused on Apollo and getting to the Moon?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:372", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.310099946201924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was emotional.\n\nYes. I think the engineers took it very personal, because they feel like what could we have done better. The same thing for the other two accidents too. It really hit hard. I remember we were in a staff meeting when the last accident happened. Benita Bridges called me and she said, “Something terrible has happened,” Roy Bridges’s wife. He was one of the astronauts. She worked with me in the library. It was very personal.\n\nThe Cape [Kennedy, Florida], for the fire, we had a closed-door meeting, and they played the tapes of the sound of what was going on. It was horrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been. Did you help with the investigation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think they knew what it was rather quickly, so it wasn’t anything that I had worked on, so no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact do you think it had on the community here in Clear Lake, this community that was so focused on Apollo and getting to the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was a wakeup call in a way because everything had been working along smoothly, and suddenly this happens, and I think it awakened people that that’s not particularly a safe job.\n\nOn a human level, you get so involved in engineering, this kind of mindset, but then when you see it, it’s a human level, that someone has died. You realize the responsibility you have.\n\nEven like the other accidents that were caused by ice coming off of parts, causing damage, even though they weren’t anything you worked on or were responsible for, it was still devastating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine. Like Betty said, being an engineer especially."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:376", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.677888829113249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think they knew what it was rather quickly, so it wasn’t anything that I had worked on, so no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact do you think it had on the community here in Clear Lake, this community that was so focused on Apollo and getting to the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was a wakeup call in a way because everything had been working along smoothly, and suddenly this happens, and I think it awakened people that that’s not particularly a safe job.\n\nOn a human level, you get so involved in engineering, this kind of mindset, but then when you see it, it’s a human level, that someone has died. You realize the responsibility you have.\n\nEven like the other accidents that were caused by ice coming off of parts, causing damage, even though they weren’t anything you worked on or were responsible for, it was still devastating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine. Like Betty said, being an engineer especially."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. “What if I’d done this? What if I’d done that?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know the crew at all? Had you worked with [Roger B.] Chaffee or Gus [Virgil I. Grissom]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:378", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8643209212369434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was a wakeup call in a way because everything had been working along smoothly, and suddenly this happens, and I think it awakened people that that’s not particularly a safe job.\n\nOn a human level, you get so involved in engineering, this kind of mindset, but then when you see it, it’s a human level, that someone has died. You realize the responsibility you have.\n\nEven like the other accidents that were caused by ice coming off of parts, causing damage, even though they weren’t anything you worked on or were responsible for, it was still devastating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine. Like Betty said, being an engineer especially."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. “What if I’d done this? What if I’d done that?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know the crew at all? Had you worked with [Roger B.] Chaffee or Gus [Virgil I. Grissom]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. For a while there a group of the astronauts were surveying different places and different technologies, and I was involved with that. I would travel on a little company puddle jumper, and they would fly their jets in. We would visit whatever company it was. San Diego and LA and stuff like that.\\n\\n The astronauts would fly in their planes, and they’d come in with their jumpsuits on. They were like rock stars walking through the place, and we’d just sort of follow along. It was neat. When we decided to go to the glass cockpit where you put a CRT in front of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are beautiful."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:382", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0714676902632703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. “What if I’d done this? What if I’d done that?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know the crew at all? Had you worked with [Roger B.] Chaffee or Gus [Virgil I. Grissom]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. For a while there a group of the astronauts were surveying different places and different technologies, and I was involved with that. I would travel on a little company puddle jumper, and they would fly their jets in. We would visit whatever company it was. San Diego and LA and stuff like that.\\n\\n The astronauts would fly in their planes, and they’d come in with their jumpsuits on. They were like rock stars walking through the place, and we’d just sort of follow along. It was neat. When we decided to go to the glass cockpit where you put a CRT in front of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are beautiful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That wasn’t an easy thing to do because there was the people who didn’t like the term, were afraid that the press would be crazy enough to push where people would think it’s just glass, it’s going to break. I had a lot to do with getting that involved. I went to a congressional committee to get the money to change the cockpit. We eventually could not call it glass cockpit, and we came up with another name for it: multifunction electronic display subsystem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because that rolls off the tongue so much easier."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:384", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3016307669591893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. For a while there a group of the astronauts were surveying different places and different technologies, and I was involved with that. I would travel on a little company puddle jumper, and they would fly their jets in. We would visit whatever company it was. San Diego and LA and stuff like that.\\n\\n The astronauts would fly in their planes, and they’d come in with their jumpsuits on. They were like rock stars walking through the place, and we’d just sort of follow along. It was neat. When we decided to go to the glass cockpit where you put a CRT in front of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are beautiful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That wasn’t an easy thing to do because there was the people who didn’t like the term, were afraid that the press would be crazy enough to push where people would think it’s just glass, it’s going to break. I had a lot to do with getting that involved. I went to a congressional committee to get the money to change the cockpit. We eventually could not call it glass cockpit, and we came up with another name for it: multifunction electronic display subsystem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because that rolls off the tongue so much easier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That made the congressional committee happy, they didn’t like the other terms. The astronauts by then were flying jets that had them in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, they were used to them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:386", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.33092434900429, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That wasn’t an easy thing to do because there was the people who didn’t like the term, were afraid that the press would be crazy enough to push where people would think it’s just glass, it’s going to break. I had a lot to do with getting that involved. I went to a congressional committee to get the money to change the cockpit. We eventually could not call it glass cockpit, and we came up with another name for it: multifunction electronic display subsystem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because that rolls off the tongue so much easier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That made the congressional committee happy, they didn’t like the other terms. The astronauts by then were flying jets that had them in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, they were used to them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were used to them, and it sure did help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have this interview from the ’60s with a guy from procurement, and he talks about how really there was space fever going on here in the city of Houston. How people wanted autographs from even him. He was a procurement guy. He showed up to some Halloween party, and somebody wanted an autograph from him. He was really embarrassed, because he’s not an astronaut. I wondered, did you ever encounter that, Dick? Were people enamored of you because you worked at NASA either here in Houston or wherever you were traveling?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:388", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5899159433380996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That made the congressional committee happy, they didn’t like the other terms. The astronauts by then were flying jets that had them in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, they were used to them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were used to them, and it sure did help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have this interview from the ’60s with a guy from procurement, and he talks about how really there was space fever going on here in the city of Houston. How people wanted autographs from even him. He was a procurement guy. He showed up to some Halloween party, and somebody wanted an autograph from him. He was really embarrassed, because he’s not an astronaut. I wondered, did you ever encounter that, Dick? Were people enamored of you because you worked at NASA either here in Houston or wherever you were traveling?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s interesting. When we travel, you talk around the dinner table. People are still impressed that you were with NASA and want to know all about it. I don’t think you ever had anybody—\n\nI don’t think anyone’s ever asked me for an autograph.\n\nBut there’s a certain—\n\nThere’s a lot of difference between an astronaut and an engineer, and astronauts, rightly so, they get all the publicity. I could see where you’d want to get something from them. But an engineer?\n\nI noticed the last couple trips we’ve taken, everybody shares what they do for a living, and they talk about NASA, then everybody’s very interested still. It’s good that people still believe in the mission.\n\nEven when I spent that three months in Germany, the hotel people were interested. There were five or seven of us, and there was a lot of talking about things. They’d ask questions. We took trolleys from there to the plant we were at. They fed us lunch every day. Never had a lunch before where the employees were drinking beer out of kegs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not something you’d see here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:390", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1974270905408635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were used to them, and it sure did help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have this interview from the ’60s with a guy from procurement, and he talks about how really there was space fever going on here in the city of Houston. How people wanted autographs from even him. He was a procurement guy. He showed up to some Halloween party, and somebody wanted an autograph from him. He was really embarrassed, because he’s not an astronaut. I wondered, did you ever encounter that, Dick? Were people enamored of you because you worked at NASA either here in Houston or wherever you were traveling?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s interesting. When we travel, you talk around the dinner table. People are still impressed that you were with NASA and want to know all about it. I don’t think you ever had anybody—\n\nI don’t think anyone’s ever asked me for an autograph.\n\nBut there’s a certain—\n\nThere’s a lot of difference between an astronaut and an engineer, and astronauts, rightly so, they get all the publicity. I could see where you’d want to get something from them. But an engineer?\n\nI noticed the last couple trips we’ve taken, everybody shares what they do for a living, and they talk about NASA, then everybody’s very interested still. It’s good that people still believe in the mission.\n\nEven when I spent that three months in Germany, the hotel people were interested. There were five or seven of us, and there was a lot of talking about things. They’d ask questions. We took trolleys from there to the plant we were at. They fed us lunch every day. Never had a lunch before where the employees were drinking beer out of kegs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not something you’d see here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there’s still some interest in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think NASA evokes great memories, and people are amazed by what NASA accomplished."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:392", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.947440852519584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s interesting. When we travel, you talk around the dinner table. People are still impressed that you were with NASA and want to know all about it. I don’t think you ever had anybody—\n\nI don’t think anyone’s ever asked me for an autograph.\n\nBut there’s a certain—\n\nThere’s a lot of difference between an astronaut and an engineer, and astronauts, rightly so, they get all the publicity. I could see where you’d want to get something from them. But an engineer?\n\nI noticed the last couple trips we’ve taken, everybody shares what they do for a living, and they talk about NASA, then everybody’s very interested still. It’s good that people still believe in the mission.\n\nEven when I spent that three months in Germany, the hotel people were interested. There were five or seven of us, and there was a lot of talking about things. They’d ask questions. We took trolleys from there to the plant we were at. They fed us lunch every day. Never had a lunch before where the employees were drinking beer out of kegs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not something you’d see here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there’s still some interest in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think NASA evokes great memories, and people are amazed by what NASA accomplished."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA seems to be heading into having private companies do stuff. They got many people launching things. I think it’s going to lose some of its allure.\n\nGlamour or whatever you want to call it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things are changing, that’s for sure."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.806220921079825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA seems to be heading into having private companies do stuff. They got many people launching things. I think it’s going to lose some of its allure.\n\nGlamour or whatever you want to call it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things are changing, that’s for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can also probably make more money going to work for one of them.\n\nYes, you’re not at the mercy of government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congress."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One thing that I do remember very vividly was when I was ready to retire we went back down to KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida], and the people I’d worked with all this time arranged for us and our daughter and our granddaughter to go out to the launchpad and to drive up to it and walk underneath an [Orbiter] that was on the pad and look up.\n\nThey won’t let you do that anymore.\n\nThat probably wasn’t something they should have done back then. I always tell my older granddaughter that you’re one of the very few people who ever had a chance to see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s very unique. I did want to ask about a couple more missions, one being Apollo 11. It’s one of those events. You remember where you were and what you were doing at the time. I wonder where you were and what your emotions were like at that point. You’d been working so hard on the Program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:404", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.464470272938055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can also probably make more money going to work for one of them.\n\nYes, you’re not at the mercy of government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congress."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One thing that I do remember very vividly was when I was ready to retire we went back down to KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida], and the people I’d worked with all this time arranged for us and our daughter and our granddaughter to go out to the launchpad and to drive up to it and walk underneath an [Orbiter] that was on the pad and look up.\n\nThey won’t let you do that anymore.\n\nThat probably wasn’t something they should have done back then. I always tell my older granddaughter that you’re one of the very few people who ever had a chance to see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s very unique. I did want to ask about a couple more missions, one being Apollo 11. It’s one of those events. You remember where you were and what you were doing at the time. I wonder where you were and what your emotions were like at that point. You’d been working so hard on the Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Emotions were high. Was I at Langley?\n\nNo, we were here, because I remember sitting on the bed with the kids watching the Moon landing.\n\nI was probably at work then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you were at work."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7383003032645057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One thing that I do remember very vividly was when I was ready to retire we went back down to KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida], and the people I’d worked with all this time arranged for us and our daughter and our granddaughter to go out to the launchpad and to drive up to it and walk underneath an [Orbiter] that was on the pad and look up.\n\nThey won’t let you do that anymore.\n\nThat probably wasn’t something they should have done back then. I always tell my older granddaughter that you’re one of the very few people who ever had a chance to see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s very unique. I did want to ask about a couple more missions, one being Apollo 11. It’s one of those events. You remember where you were and what you were doing at the time. I wonder where you were and what your emotions were like at that point. You’d been working so hard on the Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Emotions were high. Was I at Langley?\n\nNo, we were here, because I remember sitting on the bed with the kids watching the Moon landing.\n\nI was probably at work then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you were at work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nWhat you don’t see often in the press, in Mission Evaluation [Room], the MER, where everyone sees, it’s on television, there’s another room in that building with all the equipment that the engineering people sit at consoles and look at data coming in. It’s a fairly good size room. I was back in there, and you were getting all the data which was then being fed to mission control. That was an exciting time period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn’t have any visuals at that point. Betty at least was watching."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0425558925161176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Emotions were high. Was I at Langley?\n\nNo, we were here, because I remember sitting on the bed with the kids watching the Moon landing.\n\nI was probably at work then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you were at work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nWhat you don’t see often in the press, in Mission Evaluation [Room], the MER, where everyone sees, it’s on television, there’s another room in that building with all the equipment that the engineering people sit at consoles and look at data coming in. It’s a fairly good size room. I was back in there, and you were getting all the data which was then being fed to mission control. That was an exciting time period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn’t have any visuals at that point. Betty at least was watching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she had television. We were looking at dials."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think it was a little different experience, since you were just hearing what was happening?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.3806176583512415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nWhat you don’t see often in the press, in Mission Evaluation [Room], the MER, where everyone sees, it’s on television, there’s another room in that building with all the equipment that the engineering people sit at consoles and look at data coming in. It’s a fairly good size room. I was back in there, and you were getting all the data which was then being fed to mission control. That was an exciting time period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn’t have any visuals at that point. Betty at least was watching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she had television. We were looking at dials."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think it was a little different experience, since you were just hearing what was happening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were all pretty much the same excitement. We just couldn’t see much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You see the images from the MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room] and you see the flag waving and the cigars. Was that happening in the back rooms as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:418", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.8279230350015325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she had television. We were looking at dials."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think it was a little different experience, since you were just hearing what was happening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were all pretty much the same excitement. We just couldn’t see much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You see the images from the MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room] and you see the flag waving and the cigars. Was that happening in the back rooms as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a TV set in there. Most of the guys, and like I said I was engineering, and my job was I was in the Project Office, and make sure that they were all doing their jobs. Most people were looking at meters and dials and their equipment, make sure it was all working. But I’m sure that they all took sneak peeks at the television at the end of the room. I know I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think, Betty? What were your feelings?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:420", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.919914483335036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were all pretty much the same excitement. We just couldn’t see much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You see the images from the MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room] and you see the flag waving and the cigars. Was that happening in the back rooms as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a TV set in there. Most of the guys, and like I said I was engineering, and my job was I was in the Project Office, and make sure that they were all doing their jobs. Most people were looking at meters and dials and their equipment, make sure it was all working. But I’m sure that they all took sneak peeks at the television at the end of the room. I know I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think, Betty? What were your feelings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Awestruck, really, to think that they’d accomplished what they set out to do. Of course we all knew how hard it was to pull that off.\n\nI don’t think there’ll ever be another one like that. Even when we go back to the Moon, it’ll be exciting, but it won’t be the first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things have changed."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:422", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1356968930062172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a TV set in there. Most of the guys, and like I said I was engineering, and my job was I was in the Project Office, and make sure that they were all doing their jobs. Most people were looking at meters and dials and their equipment, make sure it was all working. But I’m sure that they all took sneak peeks at the television at the end of the room. I know I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think, Betty? What were your feelings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Awestruck, really, to think that they’d accomplished what they set out to do. Of course we all knew how hard it was to pull that off.\n\nI don’t think there’ll ever be another one like that. Even when we go back to the Moon, it’ll be exciting, but it won’t be the first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things have changed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We kind of take things more for granted. “Oh, go to the Moon, so what.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. We’ve been there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:424", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9233126606821747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Awestruck, really, to think that they’d accomplished what they set out to do. Of course we all knew how hard it was to pull that off.\n\nI don’t think there’ll ever be another one like that. Even when we go back to the Moon, it’ll be exciting, but it won’t be the first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things have changed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We kind of take things more for granted. “Oh, go to the Moon, so what.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. We’ve been there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How much does it cost? That’s what they worry about. We could be putting that money to doing something else.\n\nSocial things, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you didn’t go to splashdown parties. Was there any sort of celebration? You mentioned the Astrodome that you guys went to for that event. Was that a NASA-sponsored event, or was that more city of Houston?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.638288972129183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We kind of take things more for granted. “Oh, go to the Moon, so what.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. We’ve been there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How much does it cost? That’s what they worry about. We could be putting that money to doing something else.\n\nSocial things, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you didn’t go to splashdown parties. Was there any sort of celebration? You mentioned the Astrodome that you guys went to for that event. Was that a NASA-sponsored event, or was that more city of Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know, it was kind of spontaneous.\n\nI think it was a Houston-sponsored event.\n\nI think it was Houston, yes.\n\nSpur-of-the-moment.\n\nThen they had a ticker-tape parade when they came home. I remember we took the kids, and we were in some store’s parking garage looking down on the ticker-tape parade. It was really something. I’ve got pictures of that somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’d be interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.9314321912546477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How much does it cost? That’s what they worry about. We could be putting that money to doing something else.\n\nSocial things, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you didn’t go to splashdown parties. Was there any sort of celebration? You mentioned the Astrodome that you guys went to for that event. Was that a NASA-sponsored event, or was that more city of Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know, it was kind of spontaneous.\n\nI think it was a Houston-sponsored event.\n\nI think it was Houston, yes.\n\nSpur-of-the-moment.\n\nThen they had a ticker-tape parade when they came home. I remember we took the kids, and we were in some store’s parking garage looking down on the ticker-tape parade. It was really something. I’ve got pictures of that somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’d be interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our kids were—\n\nPretty young.\n\nPretty young, but they were very involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your kids think about the landing? I was young when the Space Shuttle first launched, but I didn’t have all the context. I’m wondering since your kids had some context, Dad was working on it, what was their reaction? What was their feeling? Do you recall it being anything notable?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:432", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3844841867341326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know, it was kind of spontaneous.\n\nI think it was a Houston-sponsored event.\n\nI think it was Houston, yes.\n\nSpur-of-the-moment.\n\nThen they had a ticker-tape parade when they came home. I remember we took the kids, and we were in some store’s parking garage looking down on the ticker-tape parade. It was really something. I’ve got pictures of that somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’d be interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our kids were—\n\nPretty young.\n\nPretty young, but they were very involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your kids think about the landing? I was young when the Space Shuttle first launched, but I didn’t have all the context. I’m wondering since your kids had some context, Dad was working on it, what was their reaction? What was their feeling? Do you recall it being anything notable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were always very interested. Of course Joan works for NASA now. Our son, he’s a math professor at Lone Star College. He’s dean of math. Very scientifically minded kids, both of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think working in Apollo and working for NASA had that sort of impact?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:438", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.5690091055464663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our kids were—\n\nPretty young.\n\nPretty young, but they were very involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your kids think about the landing? I was young when the Space Shuttle first launched, but I didn’t have all the context. I’m wondering since your kids had some context, Dad was working on it, what was their reaction? What was their feeling? Do you recall it being anything notable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were always very interested. Of course Joan works for NASA now. Our son, he’s a math professor at Lone Star College. He’s dean of math. Very scientifically minded kids, both of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think working in Apollo and working for NASA had that sort of impact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’ve been around technical stuff their whole lives.\n\nA STEM [Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math] student that they call them today. They didn’t have a name for it then. But they were very interested in math and physics and chemistry and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the ministers ever have any sermons or anything focused on missions when you were going to church?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:442", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6322323394960737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were always very interested. Of course Joan works for NASA now. Our son, he’s a math professor at Lone Star College. He’s dean of math. Very scientifically minded kids, both of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think working in Apollo and working for NASA had that sort of impact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’ve been around technical stuff their whole lives.\n\nA STEM [Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math] student that they call them today. They didn’t have a name for it then. But they were very interested in math and physics and chemistry and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the ministers ever have any sermons or anything focused on missions when you were going to church?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Our current minister is enamored with the space program.\n\nHe is. He’s a space nut. He keeps giving me big books on space that he buys and leaves.\n\nHe’s been to launches as well. I think all the ministers have had an admiration for the program and a spiritual support, because we went to a couple of launches at the Cape. I don’t know if they still do or not, but they used to have a prayer breakfast day before launch. Of course the astronaut was not there, but their families were. There was a spiritual need I think, because of the possible danger. The whole family [was] involved, [because] they might not come home.\n\nOur present minister has gone down to several launches.\n\nBuddy Miller, we went, he did the prayer service for that. Almost every minister has appreciated what the program is about on a human level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s not just rockets; it’s human beings flying up there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:444", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7805337524642885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’ve been around technical stuff their whole lives.\n\nA STEM [Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math] student that they call them today. They didn’t have a name for it then. But they were very interested in math and physics and chemistry and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the ministers ever have any sermons or anything focused on missions when you were going to church?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Our current minister is enamored with the space program.\n\nHe is. He’s a space nut. He keeps giving me big books on space that he buys and leaves.\n\nHe’s been to launches as well. I think all the ministers have had an admiration for the program and a spiritual support, because we went to a couple of launches at the Cape. I don’t know if they still do or not, but they used to have a prayer breakfast day before launch. Of course the astronaut was not there, but their families were. There was a spiritual need I think, because of the possible danger. The whole family [was] involved, [because] they might not come home.\n\nOur present minister has gone down to several launches.\n\nBuddy Miller, we went, he did the prayer service for that. Almost every minister has appreciated what the program is about on a human level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s not just rockets; it’s human beings flying up there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, and their families. If something happens, their families need spiritual support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wondered about that. Do you know if the church was providing some sort of support to Al Bean’s family or Fred Haise’s family? I know you said you weren’t as involved then. But is that something that you recall? The church calling for [help]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8672597249603204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Our current minister is enamored with the space program.\n\nHe is. He’s a space nut. He keeps giving me big books on space that he buys and leaves.\n\nHe’s been to launches as well. I think all the ministers have had an admiration for the program and a spiritual support, because we went to a couple of launches at the Cape. I don’t know if they still do or not, but they used to have a prayer breakfast day before launch. Of course the astronaut was not there, but their families were. There was a spiritual need I think, because of the possible danger. The whole family [was] involved, [because] they might not come home.\n\nOur present minister has gone down to several launches.\n\nBuddy Miller, we went, he did the prayer service for that. Almost every minister has appreciated what the program is about on a human level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s not just rockets; it’s human beings flying up there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, and their families. If something happens, their families need spiritual support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wondered about that. Do you know if the church was providing some sort of support to Al Bean’s family or Fred Haise’s family? I know you said you weren’t as involved then. But is that something that you recall? The church calling for [help]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would be surprised if it wasn’t.\n\nRight. I think I have in some of the newsletters prayers during a flight for different astronauts. Not necessarily if they were members here either, but for everyone that’s involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I find that interesting. It’s almost like how NASA has made its mark on the churches. Even though you’re not a member, you’re still vitally important to us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.468711959491812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, and their families. If something happens, their families need spiritual support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wondered about that. Do you know if the church was providing some sort of support to Al Bean’s family or Fred Haise’s family? I know you said you weren’t as involved then. But is that something that you recall? The church calling for [help]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would be surprised if it wasn’t.\n\nRight. I think I have in some of the newsletters prayers during a flight for different astronauts. Not necessarily if they were members here either, but for everyone that’s involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I find that interesting. It’s almost like how NASA has made its mark on the churches. Even though you’re not a member, you’re still vitally important to us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You showed me last time I was here the banner that’s in your sanctuary, which by the way I shared with Amy [Sue Bean] and Sue [Bean] because I wanted to make sure when I have a chance to talk with Sue that we could talk about it, because I thought that’s so interesting, and obviously share the information with you.\\n\\n Were you here when they brought that to the church? Do you have any memories of that moment? Was that a big deal?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6319021772131246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would be surprised if it wasn’t.\n\nRight. I think I have in some of the newsletters prayers during a flight for different astronauts. Not necessarily if they were members here either, but for everyone that’s involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I find that interesting. It’s almost like how NASA has made its mark on the churches. Even though you’re not a member, you’re still vitally important to us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You showed me last time I was here the banner that’s in your sanctuary, which by the way I shared with Amy [Sue Bean] and Sue [Bean] because I wanted to make sure when I have a chance to talk with Sue that we could talk about it, because I thought that’s so interesting, and obviously share the information with you.\\n\\n Were you here when they brought that to the church? Do you have any memories of that moment? Was that a big deal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember that.\n\nI don’t remember whether there was a service that did anything.\n\nCeremony or anything like that.\n\nI remember they were installing the case so people couldn’t easily get in and steal it.\n\nMaybe Hal Loden would remember that. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also sent them the photo because I really want to ask them about that, because it’s so unique, such a unique part of your history, and the relationship and ties between the astronauts and church and NASA."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:458", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0707118517636474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You showed me last time I was here the banner that’s in your sanctuary, which by the way I shared with Amy [Sue Bean] and Sue [Bean] because I wanted to make sure when I have a chance to talk with Sue that we could talk about it, because I thought that’s so interesting, and obviously share the information with you.\\n\\n Were you here when they brought that to the church? Do you have any memories of that moment? Was that a big deal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember that.\n\nI don’t remember whether there was a service that did anything.\n\nCeremony or anything like that.\n\nI remember they were installing the case so people couldn’t easily get in and steal it.\n\nMaybe Hal Loden would remember that. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also sent them the photo because I really want to ask them about that, because it’s so unique, such a unique part of your history, and the relationship and ties between the astronauts and church and NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know that we do a very good job of letting new members that are joining even know that it’s there, which is probably something we may want to discuss with the ministers someday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a beautiful piece. It’s very unusual. We don’t have any astronauts that go to my church. Did you guys ever enjoy the lake when you were here initially? Clear Lake. I’ve heard a lot of people say they went boating or did waterskiing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:460", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6613359855847851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember that.\n\nI don’t remember whether there was a service that did anything.\n\nCeremony or anything like that.\n\nI remember they were installing the case so people couldn’t easily get in and steal it.\n\nMaybe Hal Loden would remember that. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also sent them the photo because I really want to ask them about that, because it’s so unique, such a unique part of your history, and the relationship and ties between the astronauts and church and NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know that we do a very good job of letting new members that are joining even know that it’s there, which is probably something we may want to discuss with the ministers someday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a beautiful piece. It’s very unusual. We don’t have any astronauts that go to my church. Did you guys ever enjoy the lake when you were here initially? Clear Lake. I’ve heard a lot of people say they went boating or did waterskiing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did not do that.\n\nWe didn’t. Our next-door neighbor had a boat. They took us fishing.\n\nHe took us fishing a few times.\n\nHe was a NASA guy too.\n\nI forgot about that. Otherwise no.\n\nNot really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned going to launches. Did you ever see any Apollo, or were those Shuttle launches that you went to down at the Cape?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:466", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8459288728719834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know that we do a very good job of letting new members that are joining even know that it’s there, which is probably something we may want to discuss with the ministers someday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a beautiful piece. It’s very unusual. We don’t have any astronauts that go to my church. Did you guys ever enjoy the lake when you were here initially? Clear Lake. I’ve heard a lot of people say they went boating or did waterskiing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did not do that.\n\nWe didn’t. Our next-door neighbor had a boat. They took us fishing.\n\nHe took us fishing a few times.\n\nHe was a NASA guy too.\n\nI forgot about that. Otherwise no.\n\nNot really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned going to launches. Did you ever see any Apollo, or were those Shuttle launches that you went to down at the Cape?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, we went several times. I don’t remember which ones.\n\nThey’re probably all Shuttle. I don’t remember if we—we went a lot of times, because one time our kids were only—well, that’s when we were stationed at Langley.\n\nThat was prior to the fire. That was before Apollo.\n\nWe went down. That was before Apollo. That was before Gemini.\n\nWe went to several Shuttle launches.\n\nA couple of them I was working. I thought we went once or twice just for fun too.\n\nYes, that’s when we took our granddaughter with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When she got to walk underneath the Orbiter—that’s a unique treat. You mentioned coming down here in your Rambler. Did you only have one car initially?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:468", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7023759684072295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did not do that.\n\nWe didn’t. Our next-door neighbor had a boat. They took us fishing.\n\nHe took us fishing a few times.\n\nHe was a NASA guy too.\n\nI forgot about that. Otherwise no.\n\nNot really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned going to launches. Did you ever see any Apollo, or were those Shuttle launches that you went to down at the Cape?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, we went several times. I don’t remember which ones.\n\nThey’re probably all Shuttle. I don’t remember if we—we went a lot of times, because one time our kids were only—well, that’s when we were stationed at Langley.\n\nThat was prior to the fire. That was before Apollo.\n\nWe went down. That was before Apollo. That was before Gemini.\n\nWe went to several Shuttle launches.\n\nA couple of them I was working. I thought we went once or twice just for fun too.\n\nYes, that’s when we took our granddaughter with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When she got to walk underneath the Orbiter—that’s a unique treat. You mentioned coming down here in your Rambler. Did you only have one car initially?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You ended up buying a second."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1016987264286784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, we went several times. I don’t remember which ones.\n\nThey’re probably all Shuttle. I don’t remember if we—we went a lot of times, because one time our kids were only—well, that’s when we were stationed at Langley.\n\nThat was prior to the fire. That was before Apollo.\n\nWe went down. That was before Apollo. That was before Gemini.\n\nWe went to several Shuttle launches.\n\nA couple of them I was working. I thought we went once or twice just for fun too.\n\nYes, that’s when we took our granddaughter with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When she got to walk underneath the Orbiter—that’s a unique treat. You mentioned coming down here in your Rambler. Did you only have one car initially?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You ended up buying a second."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a long time. I really didn’t drive much till we lived here.\n\nEverything was right here.\n\nThat Rambler was fun.\n\nThey’d be in trouble with the law now because the kids used to sleep in the back. There’s no straps to hold them in back there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you take Dick to work then so you would have the car during the day?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.335220807142976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You ended up buying a second."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a long time. I really didn’t drive much till we lived here.\n\nEverything was right here.\n\nThat Rambler was fun.\n\nThey’d be in trouble with the law now because the kids used to sleep in the back. There’s no straps to hold them in back there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you take Dick to work then so you would have the car during the day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t need a car then. We were just home most of the time. It wasn’t till the kids started junior high and high school that I would need a car much.\n\nI used to bike to work once in a while and that gave you a car, but we never had too many things that weren’t right in the neighborhood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You would just walk over to the grocery store you mentioned and Woolworth’s?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2033207231042193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a long time. I really didn’t drive much till we lived here.\n\nEverything was right here.\n\nThat Rambler was fun.\n\nThey’d be in trouble with the law now because the kids used to sleep in the back. There’s no straps to hold them in back there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you take Dick to work then so you would have the car during the day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t need a car then. We were just home most of the time. It wasn’t till the kids started junior high and high school that I would need a car much.\n\nI used to bike to work once in a while and that gave you a car, but we never had too many things that weren’t right in the neighborhood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You would just walk over to the grocery store you mentioned and Woolworth’s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Rec center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess things weren’t that far from your house. I actually went and drove down. After I talked with Joan I went and drove down the street. I wanted to see exactly where Redway was. You were very close. You were almost behind the elementary school. It’s pretty close."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:490", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.27605658147267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t need a car then. We were just home most of the time. It wasn’t till the kids started junior high and high school that I would need a car much.\n\nI used to bike to work once in a while and that gave you a car, but we never had too many things that weren’t right in the neighborhood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You would just walk over to the grocery store you mentioned and Woolworth’s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Rec center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess things weren’t that far from your house. I actually went and drove down. After I talked with Joan I went and drove down the street. I wanted to see exactly where Redway was. You were very close. You were almost behind the elementary school. It’s pretty close."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Across the golf course.\n\nYes. They walked to school.\n\nNowadays it’s hardly safe to walk to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had air-conditioning in your car, right? I’ve heard stories from people saying they didn’t have air-conditioning."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8099463968798397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Rec center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess things weren’t that far from your house. I actually went and drove down. After I talked with Joan I went and drove down the street. I wanted to see exactly where Redway was. You were very close. You were almost behind the elementary school. It’s pretty close."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Across the golf course.\n\nYes. They walked to school.\n\nNowadays it’s hardly safe to walk to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had air-conditioning in your car, right? I’ve heard stories from people saying they didn’t have air-conditioning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That Rambler didn’t have it. No. We traveled to California a couple times when he went there for work. Across the desert in that, no air-conditioning was tough.\n\nIt was tough. She would leave at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning to try to beat the heat.\n\nDrive at night. Yes.\n\nIt wouldn’t even work, it was too hot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn’t cool off."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1221626631998216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Across the golf course.\n\nYes. They walked to school.\n\nNowadays it’s hardly safe to walk to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had air-conditioning in your car, right? I’ve heard stories from people saying they didn’t have air-conditioning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That Rambler didn’t have it. No. We traveled to California a couple times when he went there for work. Across the desert in that, no air-conditioning was tough.\n\nIt was tough. She would leave at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning to try to beat the heat.\n\nDrive at night. Yes.\n\nIt wouldn’t even work, it was too hot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn’t cool off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wind was the only—\n\nOur next car had air-conditioning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was at the top of the list, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4690696257775793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That Rambler didn’t have it. No. We traveled to California a couple times when he went there for work. Across the desert in that, no air-conditioning was tough.\n\nIt was tough. She would leave at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning to try to beat the heat.\n\nDrive at night. Yes.\n\nIt wouldn’t even work, it was too hot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn’t cool off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wind was the only—\n\nOur next car had air-conditioning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was at the top of the list, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you, because NASA is such a mission-focused Agency, what sort of impact you think Apollo had on the families itself, the mission to go to the Moon."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:504", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8545218064195326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wind was the only—\n\nOur next car had air-conditioning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was at the top of the list, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you, because NASA is such a mission-focused Agency, what sort of impact you think Apollo had on the families itself, the mission to go to the Moon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did it train us to be mission-oriented? Maybe that’s what we were before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe it didn’t."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:507", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.282802007132814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you, because NASA is such a mission-focused Agency, what sort of impact you think Apollo had on the families itself, the mission to go to the Moon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did it train us to be mission-oriented? Maybe that’s what we were before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe it didn’t."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Engineers and their families are very goal-oriented, I think. I think it was just taken for granted that it was going to happen. We can do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever feel like you had to make any sacrifice for the Apollo Program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.503157760127316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did it train us to be mission-oriented? Maybe that’s what we were before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe it didn’t."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Engineers and their families are very goal-oriented, I think. I think it was just taken for granted that it was going to happen. We can do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever feel like you had to make any sacrifice for the Apollo Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was proud to be part of it in a secondary way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think your kids had to make any sacrifices for the Program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.003508622363684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Engineers and their families are very goal-oriented, I think. I think it was just taken for granted that it was going to happen. We can do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever feel like you had to make any sacrifice for the Apollo Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was proud to be part of it in a secondary way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think your kids had to make any sacrifices for the Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so.\n\nIt left you with the kids when I was traveling.\n\nYes, but that was okay. That’s when I started to drive, when he started to travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You kind of need a car at some point."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.283276573887084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was proud to be part of it in a secondary way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think your kids had to make any sacrifices for the Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so.\n\nIt left you with the kids when I was traveling.\n\nYes, but that was okay. That’s when I started to drive, when he started to travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You kind of need a car at some point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’d take him to the airport and pick him up. It was a big deal. The kids got to see the airplanes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you going up to what is [William P.] Hobby [Airport] now? Or were you going up to the new airport?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5602577078139905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so.\n\nIt left you with the kids when I was traveling.\n\nYes, but that was okay. That’s when I started to drive, when he started to travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You kind of need a car at some point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’d take him to the airport and pick him up. It was a big deal. The kids got to see the airplanes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you going up to what is [William P.] Hobby [Airport] now? Or were you going up to the new airport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used to go just up here to Ellington [Field, Houston, Texas] and catch the shuttle.\n\nShuttle from Ellington up to the new airport, so that wasn’t much of a trip from us. That was pretty convenient.\n\nOnce in a while we went to the big [airport]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever go out to Ellington—I don’t know if they did this for Apollo, but for Shuttle they used to have the sort of meet the crew when they came back. Did you go out to Ellington at all for any of those type of events?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2127072546973614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’d take him to the airport and pick him up. It was a big deal. The kids got to see the airplanes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you going up to what is [William P.] Hobby [Airport] now? Or were you going up to the new airport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used to go just up here to Ellington [Field, Houston, Texas] and catch the shuttle.\n\nShuttle from Ellington up to the new airport, so that wasn’t much of a trip from us. That was pretty convenient.\n\nOnce in a while we went to the big [airport]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever go out to Ellington—I don’t know if they did this for Apollo, but for Shuttle they used to have the sort of meet the crew when they came back. Did you go out to Ellington at all for any of those type of events?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so.\n\nWe went up there once when they had the Shuttle on top of the airplane that was going cross-country. They let the employees go up and walk through it.\n\nThat was later, yes.\n\nThat was later on.\n\nThat’s Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just had a couple more questions. One of the things that I think, but I want to get your opinion on, is that I think this was a community that was unique. It wasn’t like any other, in the fact that you were all united behind one common goal. You don’t really see that today. We’re very fractured, very diverse, but you were all united behind this Apollo Program. I wonder if you agree with that, and if you would talk about that a little bit."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4276677733311964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was sort of exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did both of you, at the time, have a sense of how unique the Clear Lake area was, having lived in Virginia and Wisconsin and other places before? Did it seem like a special place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes.\n\nIt was like a college campus almost because everyone—not everyone, but the majority of the people were all doing the same thing. Driving a quarter of a mile over here to NASA.\n\nYes, because other places we’d lived, you didn’t have that sense.\n\nWe were at Langley, Virginia, and they’d been there a long time.\n\nBut we were kind of thought of as transient in Virginia. It was not that sense of purpose.\n\nNo, we were living in neighborhoods with very few people that had anything to do with Langley.\n\nYes, you didn’t assimilate; we were like Army brats. Here everyone was involved in the dream of the thing.\n\nHad a common goal, everyone.\n\nNobody was of the old school.\n\nYes, there was no history like Virginia has.\n\nVirginia had a lot of the feeling of the historical background. We lived close to Williamsburg. We were treated like Army transients."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel welcomed here when you got here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, we were starting something new. The city of Houston was enthusiastic about it. They named the Astrodome and the Astros and the Rockets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How has the area changed since you guys moved here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:547", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.590765121167622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes.\n\nIt was like a college campus almost because everyone—not everyone, but the majority of the people were all doing the same thing. Driving a quarter of a mile over here to NASA.\n\nYes, because other places we’d lived, you didn’t have that sense.\n\nWe were at Langley, Virginia, and they’d been there a long time.\n\nBut we were kind of thought of as transient in Virginia. It was not that sense of purpose.\n\nNo, we were living in neighborhoods with very few people that had anything to do with Langley.\n\nYes, you didn’t assimilate; we were like Army brats. Here everyone was involved in the dream of the thing.\n\nHad a common goal, everyone.\n\nNobody was of the old school.\n\nYes, there was no history like Virginia has.\n\nVirginia had a lot of the feeling of the historical background. We lived close to Williamsburg. We were treated like Army transients."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel welcomed here when you got here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, we were starting something new. The city of Houston was enthusiastic about it. They named the Astrodome and the Astros and the Rockets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How has the area changed since you guys moved here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Traffic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:559", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4330433594661995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, we were starting something new. The city of Houston was enthusiastic about it. They named the Astrodome and the Astros and the Rockets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How has the area changed since you guys moved here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Traffic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They keep widening highways. Highway 3 was two lanes, one each direction. Traffic is worse. We didn’t have a shopping center across the street. Matter of fact, we had to go into town to do a lot of stuff. We had one store to go shopping.\n\nThe Piggly Wiggly.\n\nPiggly Wiggly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Always fun to say."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.472893036378024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Traffic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They keep widening highways. Highway 3 was two lanes, one each direction. Traffic is worse. We didn’t have a shopping center across the street. Matter of fact, we had to go into town to do a lot of stuff. We had one store to go shopping.\n\nThe Piggly Wiggly.\n\nPiggly Wiggly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Always fun to say."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course it’s so diverse now. I doubt that half the people in our building have ever worked for NASA.\n\nYes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see that both of you have some notes. I don’t know if you want to review some of those. Dick, I think I might want to do a separate interview with you about your NASA career. It sounds like you did some really interesting things and reporting to Congress about the glass cockpit. I think that’d be interesting to capture some of that history."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:563", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.537375854767034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They keep widening highways. Highway 3 was two lanes, one each direction. Traffic is worse. We didn’t have a shopping center across the street. Matter of fact, we had to go into town to do a lot of stuff. We had one store to go shopping.\n\nThe Piggly Wiggly.\n\nPiggly Wiggly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Always fun to say."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course it’s so diverse now. I doubt that half the people in our building have ever worked for NASA.\n\nYes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see that both of you have some notes. I don’t know if you want to review some of those. Dick, I think I might want to do a separate interview with you about your NASA career. It sounds like you did some really interesting things and reporting to Congress about the glass cockpit. I think that’d be interesting to capture some of that history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got to be careful I don’t say names.\n\nCould be in trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know if there’s some other things that you wanted to address or talk about."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8190456557949001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we just had written down some dates so we wouldn’t forget about it.\n\nI’d written down went to Langley in 1962, February.\n\nWhen he graduated from Marquette University [Milwaukee, Wisconsin], he was recruited to come to NASA, and we thought, “Wow, that’s really something!” We were very excited about that.\n\nWe had a strange way to get there.\n\nBut that’s okay.\n\nI took off a semester before.\n\nWe got married in September and he—\n\nI took a semester off.\n\nI had graduated from college, he had not yet.\n\nAs soon as the government found out I wasn’t—\n\nIn school.\n\n—in school I got drafted.\n\nSo he spent two years in the Army in between.\n\nThey were going to send me to Korea. That stopped. We got married and I guess I got my little draft notice within a month.\n\nYes.\n\nThey must have tracked me.\n\nAfter a couple years in the service we had two kids.\n\nOne.\n\nWe had one at the time. I couldn’t afford to go to school, so I went to work. I worked days and went to school nights at Marquette. To finish that last semester I needed to finish took me—\n\nThree years.\n\n—three years. Because I could only take a couple courses at a time at night. The Jesuits teach at Marquette, and I had to take certain courses to have their viewpoint. I spent a lot of time there. When the Langley guy came to interview me, it was one of those typical Wisconsin winters where it never got above zero, and he was dying in the cold. He offered a job at NASA, and I grabbed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did see one other question that I don’t think we asked about. You mentioned in your piece about the women’s service committee. The men used to come home for lunch. Did you come home for lunch? Or did you eat there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I carried a brown bag most of my career, huh? I don’t remember coming home for lunch.\n\nNo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a statement about how the women decided in ’67, because the guys would come to the lunch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were too many of them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:594", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.910050728661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I carried a brown bag most of my career, huh? I don’t remember coming home for lunch.\n\nNo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a statement about how the women decided in ’67, because the guys would come to the lunch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were too many of them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious if Dick had been told, “No, you can’t come.” I thought that was an interesting little story, little anecdote."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:597", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1235194181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were too many of them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious if Dick had been told, “No, you can’t come.” I thought that was an interesting little story, little anecdote."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used to have—remember we had luncheons? Then they said, “No more husbands. This is a women’s group.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess we didn’t talk about Apollo 8. I don’t know if there’s anything else that you would like to say about another mission, but that was a really important mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:599", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.248354909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious if Dick had been told, “No, you can’t come.” I thought that was an interesting little story, little anecdote."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used to have—remember we had luncheons? Then they said, “No more husbands. This is a women’s group.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess we didn’t talk about Apollo 8. I don’t know if there’s anything else that you would like to say about another mission, but that was a really important mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. We followed all of them.\n\nUsually once one mission is flying, engineering is following that very carefully. The other part of engineering is working on the next mission that’s coming. Adding the glass cockpit took a couple years of activity, that was pretty intense, and a lot of travel. Going to Germany was sort of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll let you guys look at your notes, but I think I asked all my questions."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:601", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3870610099999998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used to have—remember we had luncheons? Then they said, “No more husbands. This is a women’s group.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess we didn’t talk about Apollo 8. I don’t know if there’s anything else that you would like to say about another mission, but that was a really important mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. We followed all of them.\n\nUsually once one mission is flying, engineering is following that very carefully. The other part of engineering is working on the next mission that’s coming. Adding the glass cockpit took a couple years of activity, that was pretty intense, and a lot of travel. Going to Germany was sort of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll let you guys look at your notes, but I think I asked all my questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think this has the Marquette part in it. Seems like life moves you along rapidly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The older I get, the quicker time seems to pass. I just remember being young, and it didn’t pass that way."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:603", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7124209999999997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. We followed all of them.\n\nUsually once one mission is flying, engineering is following that very carefully. The other part of engineering is working on the next mission that’s coming. Adding the glass cockpit took a couple years of activity, that was pretty intense, and a lot of travel. Going to Germany was sort of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll let you guys look at your notes, but I think I asked all my questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think this has the Marquette part in it. Seems like life moves you along rapidly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The older I get, the quicker time seems to pass. I just remember being young, and it didn’t pass that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One interesting about being at Langley, where we lived, Langley has huge wind tunnels that did airplane type stuff earlier. When those things went off, the whole neighborhood rumbled. The first time we heard that I guess we thought we were having an earthquake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably woke everybody up."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:606", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9026899999999998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think this has the Marquette part in it. Seems like life moves you along rapidly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The older I get, the quicker time seems to pass. I just remember being young, and it didn’t pass that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One interesting about being at Langley, where we lived, Langley has huge wind tunnels that did airplane type stuff earlier. When those things went off, the whole neighborhood rumbled. The first time we heard that I guess we thought we were having an earthquake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably woke everybody up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nI don’t have anything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. This gives me some more information."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:613", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope it was helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It triggered a lot of memories we had put off aside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a good thing to stop and think about it for a while before we get any older.\n\nWhen we can’t remember anything.\n\nWhen you think about our kids are now 58 and 60, oh my goodness, how did that happen?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand. Thank you so much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:615", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It triggered a lot of memories we had put off aside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a good thing to stop and think about it for a while before we get any older.\n\nWhen we can’t remember anything.\n\nWhen you think about our kids are now 58 and 60, oh my goodness, how did that happen?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand. Thank you so much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our granddaughters have a lot of respect for the space program. It’s going into a third generation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s great that Houston became your home and you made it your own, your place."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:617", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a good thing to stop and think about it for a while before we get any older.\n\nWhen we can’t remember anything.\n\nWhen you think about our kids are now 58 and 60, oh my goodness, how did that happen?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand. Thank you so much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our granddaughters have a lot of respect for the space program. It’s going into a third generation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s great that Houston became your home and you made it your own, your place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No more Wisconsin winters.\n\nNo. We don’t have any family left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re officially Texans now."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00067:621", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our granddaughters have a lot of respect for the space program. It’s going into a third generation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s great that Houston became your home and you made it your own, your place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No more Wisconsin winters.\n\nNo. We don’t have any family left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re officially Texans now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 31.859530746607945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I think there’s, there’s certainly a hand-eye coordination facet that, you know, is true of anything that requires some dexterity that way—be it sports or flying. I guess there’s a physiological part of it that’s a little different—that’s a different experience from the standpoint of the g’s you might feel or the tumbling or rolling or those kind of things that are a little different than most."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What sorts of aircraft were you initially involved with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well at the time I went into flight training in 1952, I did the basic in the old Navy SNJ, which is—the equivalent Air Force would be the Texan T-6."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And advanced training in those days was the Hellcat, the Grumman F6F, the one that, you know, won fame in the Pacific War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Prop and radial engine."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.51058971845327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well at the time I went into flight training in 1952, I did the basic in the old Navy SNJ, which is—the equivalent Air Force would be the Texan T-6."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And advanced training in those days was the Hellcat, the Grumman F6F, the one that, you know, won fame in the Pacific War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Prop and radial engine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Prop—radial. Both of them—both of them prop aircraft that [I] had qualified…shipboard on two occasions. And then to qualify in jets, it was a very short program of, like, 20 hours’ conversion into the Navy TV1/TV2 series, which was an Air Force T-33 Shooting Star trainer version. …Going in the Marine Corps, [my] first squadron, was in Banshees, McDonnell F2Hs. The squadron, before I left, had converted to Grumman F9-F8s, the swept-wing Cougars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your associations with Grumman began a long time ago."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 29.45621079828141, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And advanced training in those days was the Hellcat, the Grumman F6F, the one that, you know, won fame in the Pacific War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Prop and radial engine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Prop—radial. Both of them—both of them prop aircraft that [I] had qualified…shipboard on two occasions. And then to qualify in jets, it was a very short program of, like, 20 hours’ conversion into the Navy TV1/TV2 series, which was an Air Force T-33 Shooting Star trainer version. …Going in the Marine Corps, [my] first squadron, was in Banshees, McDonnell F2Hs. The squadron, before I left, had converted to Grumman F9-F8s, the swept-wing Cougars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your associations with Grumman began a long time ago."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if you look at the whole flying, I’ve flown about 80 types of aircraft. So I’ve had an association with just about every aviation builder..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also had, I think, about 7 years of experience with NASA before you came into the astronaut program as a NASA research pilot. I guess (what?) starting at Lewis?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.674334318865938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if you look at the whole flying, I’ve flown about 80 types of aircraft. So I’ve had an association with just about every aviation builder..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also had, I think, about 7 years of experience with NASA before you came into the astronaut program as a NASA research pilot. I guess (what?) starting at Lewis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct. I had met a fellow in the Oklahoma Air National Guard (in fact, my squadron commander), Stanley Newman, who had earlier in his life had worked as an engineer at Langley, and he was the one that put the thought in my mind that I should become a NASA research pilot. So even before I finished the University of Oklahoma, I was already scouting around, made visits to Langley and Ames and Edwards, which were then at that time the premier flight test centers of all the NASA centers. But there simply were no openings, and there was a long waiting list.\\n\\n So I ended up applying and being accepted at Lewis Research Center, which had research programs but more catered to testing of systems using aircraft as the vehicles to test new propulsion systems. We carried aloft…Ram jets hung under airplanes. We had a zero-g aircraft facility. In fact we had the second one in the country behind the Air Force at Wright-Patterson, with an old Navy AJ2, where we did early testing to fix the configuration of propellant tanks in the Centaur rocket, where the screens would be, for instance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were using it for engineering, but later it became a very valuable tool for astronauts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Absolutely. The one we had, just the bomb bay we used for these experiments. [It] was too small for the, really,—the purposes later I experienced when I became an astronaut with the larger 707, where you had a much bigger area to free float within."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I was of the impression that we didn’t happen on to the use of zero-g aircraft until some time during the Gemini Program. But obviously it was for engineering purposes, at least—it was well before that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.860371465406597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct. I had met a fellow in the Oklahoma Air National Guard (in fact, my squadron commander), Stanley Newman, who had earlier in his life had worked as an engineer at Langley, and he was the one that put the thought in my mind that I should become a NASA research pilot. So even before I finished the University of Oklahoma, I was already scouting around, made visits to Langley and Ames and Edwards, which were then at that time the premier flight test centers of all the NASA centers. But there simply were no openings, and there was a long waiting list.\\n\\n So I ended up applying and being accepted at Lewis Research Center, which had research programs but more catered to testing of systems using aircraft as the vehicles to test new propulsion systems. We carried aloft…Ram jets hung under airplanes. We had a zero-g aircraft facility. In fact we had the second one in the country behind the Air Force at Wright-Patterson, with an old Navy AJ2, where we did early testing to fix the configuration of propellant tanks in the Centaur rocket, where the screens would be, for instance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were using it for engineering, but later it became a very valuable tool for astronauts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Absolutely. The one we had, just the bomb bay we used for these experiments. [It] was too small for the, really,—the purposes later I experienced when I became an astronaut with the larger 707, where you had a much bigger area to free float within."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I was of the impression that we didn’t happen on to the use of zero-g aircraft until some time during the Gemini Program. But obviously it was for engineering purposes, at least—it was well before that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we inaugurated the AJ2 Program in 1960."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, as a NASA research pilot, I’m sure that you had exposure to and knew a number of the astronauts that were selected in groups before you. Let’s see: Neil [A.] Armstrong would have been one of them ahead of you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.733746072673995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Absolutely. The one we had, just the bomb bay we used for these experiments. [It] was too small for the, really,—the purposes later I experienced when I became an astronaut with the larger 707, where you had a much bigger area to free float within."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I was of the impression that we didn’t happen on to the use of zero-g aircraft until some time during the Gemini Program. But obviously it was for engineering purposes, at least—it was well before that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we inaugurated the AJ2 Program in 1960."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, as a NASA research pilot, I’m sure that you had exposure to and knew a number of the astronauts that were selected in groups before you. Let’s see: Neil [A.] Armstrong would have been one of them ahead of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Neil, in fact, followed the same path through NASA that I had. Neil was about 2½, 3 years ahead of me. He started at Lewis Research Center then went to NASA’s Flight Research Center (now Dryden Flight Research Center at Edwards), and from there entered the astronaut program. And I just—I followed literally the same route, but about 3 years behind Neil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that made the transition from becoming a research pilot to becoming an astronaut any smoother? Was it—was that a particularly good route to go in your estimation?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.593051191859992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we inaugurated the AJ2 Program in 1960."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, as a NASA research pilot, I’m sure that you had exposure to and knew a number of the astronauts that were selected in groups before you. Let’s see: Neil [A.] Armstrong would have been one of them ahead of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Neil, in fact, followed the same path through NASA that I had. Neil was about 2½, 3 years ahead of me. He started at Lewis Research Center then went to NASA’s Flight Research Center (now Dryden Flight Research Center at Edwards), and from there entered the astronaut program. And I just—I followed literally the same route, but about 3 years behind Neil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that made the transition from becoming a research pilot to becoming an astronaut any smoother? Was it—was that a particularly good route to go in your estimation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think in the development—when you’re in the portion of a program that’s the development program, which it was—still was—when I entered Apollo and certainly for my early years in Shuttle, I think having a background as an experimental test pilot of any sort (be it a company pilot or with NASA) helps in the sense of your being—having experience to be part of… the design evolution of the vehicle. Because that’s a role that you play. In the case of my NASA experience, except for the Lifting Body Program I had some participation in, most of it was for the design (if you will) and implementation of the experiments or use of the aircraft, which often required modification."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, you were a member of the fifth class. I think you guys dubbed yourselves “The Original 19.” There were 19 of you. And—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.658945768733325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Neil, in fact, followed the same path through NASA that I had. Neil was about 2½, 3 years ahead of me. He started at Lewis Research Center then went to NASA’s Flight Research Center (now Dryden Flight Research Center at Edwards), and from there entered the astronaut program. And I just—I followed literally the same route, but about 3 years behind Neil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that made the transition from becoming a research pilot to becoming an astronaut any smoother? Was it—was that a particularly good route to go in your estimation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think in the development—when you’re in the portion of a program that’s the development program, which it was—still was—when I entered Apollo and certainly for my early years in Shuttle, I think having a background as an experimental test pilot of any sort (be it a company pilot or with NASA) helps in the sense of your being—having experience to be part of… the design evolution of the vehicle. Because that’s a role that you play. In the case of my NASA experience, except for the Lifting Body Program I had some participation in, most of it was for the design (if you will) and implementation of the experiments or use of the aircraft, which often required modification."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, you were a member of the fifth class. I think you guys dubbed yourselves “The Original 19.” There were 19 of you. And—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct. Nineteen of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—if I did the math right, eight of you flew in Apollo—nine of you flew in Apollo, eight of you went on to also stay with the Shuttle Program. You, of course, did both. Did you reflect on how you happened to get one of those coveted Apollo assignments out of that class?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.019121732561075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there certainly was elsewhere in NASA. My experience at Flight Research Center, I’d hoped to fly the X-15, rocket ship; and clearly within that office, it was on seniority. And when I left Flight Research Center to join the astronaut program, I was still two people away from getting my turn to have flown the X-15. It so happens, I’m glad I left because I would have never made it by the time that program ended."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. The program would have run out before you got through the seniority. I suspect that there was—that all things being equal, seniority was a factor with Deke and with Al, but I think there were clearly other elements that played in it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I could see, just from the mixes that there also was some thought, I think, of the—call it the personalities. Not in a true psychoanalysis sense, but just their feeling of understanding and knowing the people of who would play together well. Although I would say for the drive of the mission and accomplishing the mission and the length of time of those missions, you could’ve probably mixed any three people and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—just that drive would’ve pulled them together as a team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much do you think the technical specialties, technical expertise, that each of the crewmembers brought to it was a factor in how they were placed on the different crews?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.418668805630958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—just that drive would’ve pulled them together as a team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much do you think the technical specialties, technical expertise, that each of the crewmembers brought to it was a factor in how they were placed on the different crews?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, I really can’t—I don’t know. I know that the only selection I know that was a differentiator was weight. You could not—if I recall, you could not be a lunar module pilot and weigh more than 175 pounds. So that was kind of an upper limit, as I recall, for that just because of the criticality—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—of the performance of the vehicle to accomplish the landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well that’s right. They were offering big bonuses to the Grumman employees who could come up with ounces saved off the vehicle. So I guess you don’t want to trade back a lot of ounces on the vehicle for a lot of pounds on the crew."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 31.576298672923286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, I really can’t—I don’t know. I know that the only selection I know that was a differentiator was weight. You could not—if I recall, you could not be a lunar module pilot and weigh more than 175 pounds. So that was kind of an upper limit, as I recall, for that just because of the criticality—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—of the performance of the vehicle to accomplish the landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well that’s right. They were offering big bonuses to the Grumman employees who could come up with ounces saved off the vehicle. So I guess you don’t want to trade back a lot of ounces on the vehicle for a lot of pounds on the crew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall in your group of 19, any of the members of that group who were particular standouts in terms of leadership or played a role in leading the rest of the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 24.655233459721515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well certainly as far as a view, I had no opinion one way or the other of the science group coming in at that time. I did not look at it (maybe as you’re implying) [as] a threat to positions and ensuing flights. As it turned out, it did have an effect in one case. And the MOL astronauts, to me, were later in the selection process, and frankly, some very good people—some of which like Dick Truly, I was in—I went through Test Pilot School with at Edwards, who I knew—were just unfortunately had had a bad situation and losing—having a program disappear from under them with the Manned Orbiting Laboratory Program, were likely too late to fit into the Apollo Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As it turned out, they (I think) all flew Shuttle. And yeah, I think they were all Shuttle astronauts. Of course one of them, as you allude to, went on to—well, several of them went on to high management positions: Dick Truly becoming NASA Administrator."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they did very well for themselves. As you came onboard in ’66, the Gemini Program was in its wrapping-up stages. Did you have any direct involvement with Gemini? Or did you go almost directly—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—to Apollo activities?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.172481621912794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they did very well for themselves. As you came onboard in ’66, the Gemini Program was in its wrapping-up stages. Did you have any direct involvement with Gemini? Or did you go almost directly—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—to Apollo activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. When I think, if I recall, when I joined the program, they were about to have Gemini VIII, and I had no involvement. We got to exercise some of the simulators, just as part of—call it that first year of (quote) “Indoctrination, the Docking Trainer. ” Those sorts of things. But [I had] really no direct involvement at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As one of the earlier groups, of course, you were going through all of the full gamut of training, including all of the tropical survival, desert survival, things like that, which were later, with the later groups, tended to get dropped. What did that really contribute to your preparation to fly? Was it really more of a team-building kind of an exercise, do you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 27.96942402434755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—to Apollo activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. When I think, if I recall, when I joined the program, they were about to have Gemini VIII, and I had no involvement. We got to exercise some of the simulators, just as part of—call it that first year of (quote) “Indoctrination, the Docking Trainer. ” Those sorts of things. But [I had] really no direct involvement at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As one of the earlier groups, of course, you were going through all of the full gamut of training, including all of the tropical survival, desert survival, things like that, which were later, with the later groups, tended to get dropped. What did that really contribute to your preparation to fly? Was it really more of a team-building kind of an exercise, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was—survival training is one of those things that you have for contingencies and, frankly, hope you’ll never have to use. So, you know, that’s the whole basis of—you don’t plan to be in a survival situation; if we—if you plan right, you wouldn’t be. Certainly there was team-building, but it’s pretty much within our original 19 group because that’s—as we went through it, for the most part it was exclusively our group that went through this training. So in a sense of a mission crew assignment basis, it really didn’t play a role in that sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You—well, we touched a little bit on the technical skills in your background with test flying. But you did quite early on begin, as I recall, to focus on the lunar module as an area of expertise. How did you end up in that assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.9484554517799, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I ended up as a member of the Apollo 9 team under Jim McDivitt. I was a member of the support crew, which we had in those days. And Jim was, I think, worried more about the—getting the LM ready, so he assigned Ed Mitchell and I to that task, to follow the LM through early testing to get them ready to ship to the Cape and, ensuingly, testing that was done at the Cape. And—so that was my exclusive responsibility, was to make sure LM-2 was ready and then, of course, at a point we decided LM-2 was too far afield with the mods [modifications], so we jumped to LM-3 as the real vehicle that ended up flying Apollo 9."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, was 8 still envisioned as a lunar module mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I—well, you mean, when I was assigned to—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—it? When I was assigned to Apollo 8, yes, it was a high-orbit rendezvous (I think 4,000 mile apogee) with a lunar module. And we—I don’t remember how long we were in that training (probably a month) when the decision was made by NASA management to forget the lunar module (it wasn’t going to be ready) and turned it into a lunar mission using only the command and service module. This incidentally was the toughest training cycle I went through of the four in Apollo as far as the time squeeze to get ready."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Getting ready for a lunar mission on 8?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 25.498283835311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I—well, you mean, when I was assigned to—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—it? When I was assigned to Apollo 8, yes, it was a high-orbit rendezvous (I think 4,000 mile apogee) with a lunar module. And we—I don’t remember how long we were in that training (probably a month) when the decision was made by NASA management to forget the lunar module (it wasn’t going to be ready) and turned it into a lunar mission using only the command and service module. This incidentally was the toughest training cycle I went through of the four in Apollo as far as the time squeeze to get ready."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Getting ready for a lunar mission on 8?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On 8. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was an almost audacious decision, looking back on it, in the standpoint of the NASA managers and engineers who had to make that decision. How did you get involved in that? What—at what point were you aware of what they were thinking about doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.55364870590111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—it? When I was assigned to Apollo 8, yes, it was a high-orbit rendezvous (I think 4,000 mile apogee) with a lunar module. And we—I don’t remember how long we were in that training (probably a month) when the decision was made by NASA management to forget the lunar module (it wasn’t going to be ready) and turned it into a lunar mission using only the command and service module. This incidentally was the toughest training cycle I went through of the four in Apollo as far as the time squeeze to get ready."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Getting ready for a lunar mission on 8?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On 8. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was an almost audacious decision, looking back on it, in the standpoint of the NASA managers and engineers who had to make that decision. How did you get involved in that? What—at what point were you aware of what they were thinking about doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only way I got involved in the decision was providing some of the background material. I worked with Charlie Mars, who was under Ted Sasseen and the test engineering for the lunar module operations at NASA-Kennedy. And at that time, LM-3… had arrived at Florida. …We made up a case, if you will, which Charlie presented at a meeting in the Headquarters building at Kennedy, of all the shortcomings in that vehicle, of the things that weren’t flight-worthy that were a number of items… in that vehicle.\\n\\n So we didn’t even have it up to flight [status]… all the components weren’t there that you needed to fly. And we were involved in this testing to meet a schedule that was just impossible. And so it was really just a little help [with] that background, the information that was presented, that I think made it clear to NASA management… that they either had to slip the schedule or go to this alternate mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any particular thing that was holding the LM up? Or was it just a matter of a whole bunch of things and getting it—getting all these systems developed and integrated into a flying vehicle?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.837387451001234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On 8. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was an almost audacious decision, looking back on it, in the standpoint of the NASA managers and engineers who had to make that decision. How did you get involved in that? What—at what point were you aware of what they were thinking about doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only way I got involved in the decision was providing some of the background material. I worked with Charlie Mars, who was under Ted Sasseen and the test engineering for the lunar module operations at NASA-Kennedy. And at that time, LM-3… had arrived at Florida. …We made up a case, if you will, which Charlie presented at a meeting in the Headquarters building at Kennedy, of all the shortcomings in that vehicle, of the things that weren’t flight-worthy that were a number of items… in that vehicle.\\n\\n So we didn’t even have it up to flight [status]… all the components weren’t there that you needed to fly. And we were involved in this testing to meet a schedule that was just impossible. And so it was really just a little help [with] that background, the information that was presented, that I think made it clear to NASA management… that they either had to slip the schedule or go to this alternate mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any particular thing that was holding the LM up? Or was it just a matter of a whole bunch of things and getting it—getting all these systems developed and integrated into a flying vehicle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a combination of things, …problems with the deliveries of subassembly components, of flight components. There were lots of problems in qual tests [qualification tests]. There were lots of mods [modifications]. There were lots of changes in the vehicle that were driven by, you know, engineering and in conjunction with NASA Change Boards that we literally were trying to test vehicles hot. They were live while people were in the back of the vehicle cutting wires and soldering and making mods [modifications] to wiring and other bundles you weren’t using in that test, …"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Testing was going on—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 25.374874945556925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only way I got involved in the decision was providing some of the background material. I worked with Charlie Mars, who was under Ted Sasseen and the test engineering for the lunar module operations at NASA-Kennedy. And at that time, LM-3… had arrived at Florida. …We made up a case, if you will, which Charlie presented at a meeting in the Headquarters building at Kennedy, of all the shortcomings in that vehicle, of the things that weren’t flight-worthy that were a number of items… in that vehicle.\\n\\n So we didn’t even have it up to flight [status]… all the components weren’t there that you needed to fly. And we were involved in this testing to meet a schedule that was just impossible. And so it was really just a little help [with] that background, the information that was presented, that I think made it clear to NASA management… that they either had to slip the schedule or go to this alternate mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any particular thing that was holding the LM up? Or was it just a matter of a whole bunch of things and getting it—getting all these systems developed and integrated into a flying vehicle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a combination of things, …problems with the deliveries of subassembly components, of flight components. There were lots of problems in qual tests [qualification tests]. There were lots of mods [modifications]. There were lots of changes in the vehicle that were driven by, you know, engineering and in conjunction with NASA Change Boards that we literally were trying to test vehicles hot. They were live while people were in the back of the vehicle cutting wires and soldering and making mods [modifications] to wiring and other bundles you weren’t using in that test, …"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Testing was going on—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—so it was a very bizarre environment at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the problem that they were having with the injectors for the ascent engine a particular factor there? Or did that come along later?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.972083272841026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a combination of things, …problems with the deliveries of subassembly components, of flight components. There were lots of problems in qual tests [qualification tests]. There were lots of mods [modifications]. There were lots of changes in the vehicle that were driven by, you know, engineering and in conjunction with NASA Change Boards that we literally were trying to test vehicles hot. They were live while people were in the back of the vehicle cutting wires and soldering and making mods [modifications] to wiring and other bundles you weren’t using in that test, …"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Testing was going on—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—so it was a very bizarre environment at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the problem that they were having with the injectors for the ascent engine a particular factor there? Or did that come along later?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The ascent engine instability in the injectors and the erosion that was a problem was there. In fact, there was an alternate program started [that] George Low set in place with TRW to try to modify, really I guess, the descent to engine, make it non-throttleable but use it as an ascent engine. So there was [for] some time, … a parallel program that was going on. [Recorder turned off.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Fred, we were talking about Apollo 8. You were a member of the backup crew on that mission. And you mentioned that that was the most difficult training cycle that you went through. I’d like to go into that a little more. What was it that made that such a crunch of a mission as far as the crews were concerned?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.720794874741449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I frankly never felt that I would have a problem with the handling what I had to do both in the normal sense, which was [an] easier thing to consider, but also continuously, at least the ones we could think of and train for. So I felt adequate for every mission I prepared for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, Mike Collins was originally a member of that Apollo 8 crew and, for a medical problem, was removed. That created a cascading series of things that ultimately ended up affecting your crew assignments, and moved Mike to Apollo 11. I think, if I remember correctly, you were at one point on the 11 crew, were you not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I—Mike had unfortunately gotten well. [smiles] And by virtue of that, I moved to the Apollo 11 backup crew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was on the Apollo 8 backup crew with Neil and Buzz [Edwin “Buzz” Aldrin, Jr.]. And they moved up to the prime crew. Mike rejoined the crew, if you will, as prime; and I was on the backup then with Jim Lovell [James A. Lovell, Jr.] initially with Bill Anders [William A. Anders]. After a very short time, Bill decided to leave the program; and Ken Mattingly [Thomas K. “Ken” Mattingly II ] was put in that place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So that put you guys, then, in line for Apollo 14,—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.911994305268276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I—Mike had unfortunately gotten well. [smiles] And by virtue of that, I moved to the Apollo 11 backup crew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was on the Apollo 8 backup crew with Neil and Buzz [Edwin “Buzz” Aldrin, Jr.]. And they moved up to the prime crew. Mike rejoined the crew, if you will, as prime; and I was on the backup then with Jim Lovell [James A. Lovell, Jr.] initially with Bill Anders [William A. Anders]. After a very short time, Bill decided to leave the program; and Ken Mattingly [Thomas K. “Ken” Mattingly II ] was put in that place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So that put you guys, then, in line for Apollo 14,—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "14."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—which subsequently became Apollo 13."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.235549228075863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was on the Apollo 8 backup crew with Neil and Buzz [Edwin “Buzz” Aldrin, Jr.]. And they moved up to the prime crew. Mike rejoined the crew, if you will, as prime; and I was on the backup then with Jim Lovell [James A. Lovell, Jr.] initially with Bill Anders [William A. Anders]. After a very short time, Bill decided to leave the program; and Ken Mattingly [Thomas K. “Ken” Mattingly II ] was put in that place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So that put you guys, then, in line for Apollo 14,—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "14."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—which subsequently became Apollo 13."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we’ll get into that in a bit. One of the assignments that you were particularly notable in, at least in my recollection, was a role in Mission Control as a Capcom [Capsule Communicator]. And I just wondered what, from your point of view, that contributed to your preparation to fly, your trust in the ground when you were in orbit, and that sort of thing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.150610253417625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "14."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—which subsequently became Apollo 13."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we’ll get into that in a bit. One of the assignments that you were particularly notable in, at least in my recollection, was a role in Mission Control as a Capcom [Capsule Communicator]. And I just wondered what, from your point of view, that contributed to your preparation to fly, your trust in the ground when you were in orbit, and that sort of thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the—that, just being a part of a Mission Control team in that role, you’re one of the players in the room under the flight director in the preparation—total preparation through many hours of integrated simulations, preparing for a flight. But likewise even as a crewman for the many cycles (I’ve had two at least in Apollo 8 and 11), working through these integrated simulations with the Mission Control there, the group called “SIM Sup,” [Simulation Supervisor] which was a… group of rather devious people that had been assembled to devise the skits for these simulation scenarios to put in specific failures at specific times in the—in their hopes they would make us fail.\\n\\n But that conditioning, through all those hours, certainly made me confident of the team that was there. And not just Mission Control. Behind them they had the MER team I guess it was called then in building 45. That—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Mission Evaluation Room?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.167344726019582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we’ll get into that in a bit. One of the assignments that you were particularly notable in, at least in my recollection, was a role in Mission Control as a Capcom [Capsule Communicator]. And I just wondered what, from your point of view, that contributed to your preparation to fly, your trust in the ground when you were in orbit, and that sort of thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the—that, just being a part of a Mission Control team in that role, you’re one of the players in the room under the flight director in the preparation—total preparation through many hours of integrated simulations, preparing for a flight. But likewise even as a crewman for the many cycles (I’ve had two at least in Apollo 8 and 11), working through these integrated simulations with the Mission Control there, the group called “SIM Sup,” [Simulation Supervisor] which was a… group of rather devious people that had been assembled to devise the skits for these simulation scenarios to put in specific failures at specific times in the—in their hopes they would make us fail.\\n\\n But that conditioning, through all those hours, certainly made me confident of the team that was there. And not just Mission Control. Behind them they had the MER team I guess it was called then in building 45. That—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Mission Evaluation Room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The mission evaluation that could cascade through the whole contract or force, you know, across the country for brain power if needed. That and then there [were]… “some of the best” brains in the country… on the program because of the challenge of going to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. It was certainly accessible to it even if they weren’t in the room."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.297049695577313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the—that, just being a part of a Mission Control team in that role, you’re one of the players in the room under the flight director in the preparation—total preparation through many hours of integrated simulations, preparing for a flight. But likewise even as a crewman for the many cycles (I’ve had two at least in Apollo 8 and 11), working through these integrated simulations with the Mission Control there, the group called “SIM Sup,” [Simulation Supervisor] which was a… group of rather devious people that had been assembled to devise the skits for these simulation scenarios to put in specific failures at specific times in the—in their hopes they would make us fail.\\n\\n But that conditioning, through all those hours, certainly made me confident of the team that was there. And not just Mission Control. Behind them they had the MER team I guess it was called then in building 45. That—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Mission Evaluation Room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The mission evaluation that could cascade through the whole contract or force, you know, across the country for brain power if needed. That and then there [were]… “some of the best” brains in the country… on the program because of the challenge of going to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. It was certainly accessible to it even if they weren’t in the room."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things that always struck me in my observations of Mission Control was the extent to which it—the simulations in particular were not only a training tool but allowed you to develop the flight planning and the concept for the mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.552277439530346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The mission evaluation that could cascade through the whole contract or force, you know, across the country for brain power if needed. That and then there [were]… “some of the best” brains in the country… on the program because of the challenge of going to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. It was certainly accessible to it even if they weren’t in the room."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things that always struck me in my observations of Mission Control was the extent to which it—the simulations in particular were not only a training tool but allowed you to develop the flight planning and the concept for the mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Each SIM [simulation] we conducted, no matter how short—be it a launch SIM [simulation] which didn’t run that long—we would stop and evaluate what had happened, what had been done. And as you said, it often may [have] changed the mission plan, but it—and probably in more cases, it affected our procedures: How we changed the malfunction procedures or our checklist. Those sorts of things. Because we didn’t leave anything unanswered. If it couldn’t be answered in real time following that mission—that simulation debrief, it would be carried over and worked off line. But eventually if we didn’t have a successful outcome in our mind of how we handled things, each of those were eventually brought to a conclusion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the time you were functioning as a member of the backup crew that was in line for Apollo 11, did you guys realize or expect that 11 was the most likely lunar landing mission? First lunar landing mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.496638814234997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Each SIM [simulation] we conducted, no matter how short—be it a launch SIM [simulation] which didn’t run that long—we would stop and evaluate what had happened, what had been done. And as you said, it often may [have] changed the mission plan, but it—and probably in more cases, it affected our procedures: How we changed the malfunction procedures or our checklist. Those sorts of things. Because we didn’t leave anything unanswered. If it couldn’t be answered in real time following that mission—that simulation debrief, it would be carried over and worked off line. But eventually if we didn’t have a successful outcome in our mind of how we handled things, each of those were eventually brought to a conclusion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the time you were functioning as a member of the backup crew that was in line for Apollo 11, did you guys realize or expect that 11 was the most likely lunar landing mission? First lunar landing mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I don’t know if it was the most likely, because of the probabilities of it being successful or not. But we knew it was the first in line to at least make the attempt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The attempt."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whether it made it or not was, you know, another question to be proven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What do you think the smart money would’ve said at that time? Would you have guessed that 11 would be successful? Or would you have bet that maybe 12 or 13 was the most likely for a successful lunar landing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.21848757137222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I don’t know if it was the most likely, because of the probabilities of it being successful or not. But we knew it was the first in line to at least make the attempt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The attempt."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whether it made it or not was, you know, another question to be proven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What do you think the smart money would’ve said at that time? Would you have guessed that 11 would be successful? Or would you have bet that maybe 12 or 13 was the most likely for a successful lunar landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I would’ve—I had a high degree of confidence in the hardware at that time, and I would’ve felt, you know, it was a good shot at 11 being the one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About a month, if I remember correctly—about a month after Apollo 11, you went through a personal situation that was really quite difficult with the hurricane in your hometown area. I wanted to diverge a little bit from the normal courses and get your recollections of that, because that was, still I think, one of the—Hurricane Camille, in ’69—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.131652857080244, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whether it made it or not was, you know, another question to be proven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What do you think the smart money would’ve said at that time? Would you have guessed that 11 would be successful? Or would you have bet that maybe 12 or 13 was the most likely for a successful lunar landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I would’ve—I had a high degree of confidence in the hardware at that time, and I would’ve felt, you know, it was a good shot at 11 being the one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About a month, if I remember correctly—about a month after Apollo 11, you went through a personal situation that was really quite difficult with the hurricane in your hometown area. I wanted to diverge a little bit from the normal courses and get your recollections of that, because that was, still I think, one of the—Hurricane Camille, in ’69—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—was one of the worst hurricanes ever to strike the Gulf Coast. And I know you had a lot of direct involvement with that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.257392063422493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I would’ve—I had a high degree of confidence in the hardware at that time, and I would’ve felt, you know, it was a good shot at 11 being the one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About a month, if I remember correctly—about a month after Apollo 11, you went through a personal situation that was really quite difficult with the hurricane in your hometown area. I wanted to diverge a little bit from the normal courses and get your recollections of that, because that was, still I think, one of the—Hurricane Camille, in ’69—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—was one of the worst hurricanes ever to strike the Gulf Coast. And I know you had a lot of direct involvement with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went back there afterwards. I still had my mother, one sister, and several aunts that were—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s in Biloxi [Mississippi]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.39710229269166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—was one of the worst hurricanes ever to strike the Gulf Coast. And I know you had a lot of direct involvement with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went back there afterwards. I still had my mother, one sister, and several aunts that were—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s in Biloxi [Mississippi]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—resident then, and one of my aunts lost her house. She was about a half a block off the beach, and it just—the hurricane literally cleared almost the first block off the beach. It just took things right off the foundations. And you know, from a even worse standpoint from the beauty of the coast, destroyed many of the beautiful old oak trees. Some had been—were hundreds of years old that had been there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this in the Biloxi area?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.55233588076851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went back there afterwards. I still had my mother, one sister, and several aunts that were—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s in Biloxi [Mississippi]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—resident then, and one of my aunts lost her house. She was about a half a block off the beach, and it just—the hurricane literally cleared almost the first block off the beach. It just took things right off the foundations. And you know, from a even worse standpoint from the beauty of the coast, destroyed many of the beautiful old oak trees. Some had been—were hundreds of years old that had been there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this in the Biloxi area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was in Biloxi, Mississippi, right. And my mother actually lost a car, was all. She was not harmed although the water got almost up into the house, which is up on pillars, about 3 feet or so. In fact, Biloxi was very lucky because, as I understand, with the water, if it had risen another something like 5 or 6 feet, it would have crested Biloxi, which is a peninsula, and probably just cleared it off. So they were lucky it, you know,—it didn’t get any higher than it had at the time. But I made a visit back then, and again after the mission on a celebration parade. And like I said, I knew of many of the families and had many friends there that had lost homes and possessions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thirty years later, you can still see the effects of that storm if you drive through there. The houses that are gone. The foundations that are just sitting along the beach."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.947039867520566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—resident then, and one of my aunts lost her house. She was about a half a block off the beach, and it just—the hurricane literally cleared almost the first block off the beach. It just took things right off the foundations. And you know, from a even worse standpoint from the beauty of the coast, destroyed many of the beautiful old oak trees. Some had been—were hundreds of years old that had been there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this in the Biloxi area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was in Biloxi, Mississippi, right. And my mother actually lost a car, was all. She was not harmed although the water got almost up into the house, which is up on pillars, about 3 feet or so. In fact, Biloxi was very lucky because, as I understand, with the water, if it had risen another something like 5 or 6 feet, it would have crested Biloxi, which is a peninsula, and probably just cleared it off. So they were lucky it, you know,—it didn’t get any higher than it had at the time. But I made a visit back then, and again after the mission on a celebration parade. And like I said, I knew of many of the families and had many friends there that had lost homes and possessions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thirty years later, you can still see the effects of that storm if you drive through there. The houses that are gone. The foundations that are just sitting along the beach."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There’s empty lots with just the foundation with it not—either not chosen to sell the property or rebuild, or no one chose to buy it and think about rebuilding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that—did the timing of that hurricane have a—work into advantage as far as your training scheduling [was concerned]? Or did it come at a bad time for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.453135638914276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There’s empty lots with just the foundation with it not—either not chosen to sell the property or rebuild, or no one chose to buy it and think about rebuilding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that—did the timing of that hurricane have a—work into advantage as far as your training scheduling [was concerned]? Or did it come at a bad time for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it actually had no effect on—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—what I had to do within the—my involvement in 11 and subsequently into the 13 training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It occurred after 11 was really beyond you and then before you’d really picked up the—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 31.614595154349196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it actually had no effect on—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—what I had to do within the—my involvement in 11 and subsequently into the 13 training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It occurred after 11 was really beyond you and then before you’d really picked up the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—the load on 13. You mentioned that your assignment had originally been to 14. That moved back to 13 when Al Shepard got back into the lineup after resolving his medical problem. And as I remember that story, the managers in Washington were concerned that Shepard would not be ready to fly 13 but Lovell’s crew (you and Mattingly along with Jim Lovell) would be. And you were asked if you would take that earlier assignment and let Shepard train for the later one. Is that essentially a correct summation of it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 32.90510572705466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—what I had to do within the—my involvement in 11 and subsequently into the 13 training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It occurred after 11 was really beyond you and then before you’d really picked up the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—the load on 13. You mentioned that your assignment had originally been to 14. That moved back to 13 when Al Shepard got back into the lineup after resolving his medical problem. And as I remember that story, the managers in Washington were concerned that Shepard would not be ready to fly 13 but Lovell’s crew (you and Mattingly along with Jim Lovell) would be. And you were asked if you would take that earlier assignment and let Shepard train for the later one. Is that essentially a correct summation of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much, except the—what had changed after the—Apollo 10 backup had lost two members. So really the new assignments were Al, as the commander, and Stu Roosa, [who] had never been through a training cycle, was also assigned to that then Apollo 13 crew (would have been the Apollo 13 crew). So they had all—Ed Mitchell was the only one who had been through a training cycle. So, I—that wasn’t discussed with me.\\n\\n It actually, I guess, was …[discussed with] Jim. I think Jim, just as I and Ken Mattingly felt at the time, the quicker you get to fly the better. So there was absolutely nothing wrong, in our minds, with having made that change. We were happy to get Apollo 13. I’m not superstitious, incidentally, so that part didn’t bother me either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did that do to your training cycle? Those flights at that time were going on 6-month centers. Did that leave you adequate time to get ready for 13?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.848728559424657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it—half of the effort we were going to do at the Moon was very similar to what had been done in both 11 and 12. And that was to lay out a set of scientific experiments involved in the ALSEP [Apollo Lunar Surface Experiments Package] packages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s the lunar surface—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lunar surface—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "experiment package?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—right. The second part, which was to be probably more involved in at least a hope of being better field geologists to do a better sampling—was, the EVA [Extra-Vehicular Activity], the second EVA. And, in our case, was to explore the countryside, up a slope toward a feature called Cone Crater in the Fra Mauro region of the Moon. And by strategically sampling up toward the crater, you would be sampling material that at the out—that outside ray of the crater would be the deepest material, where the crater normally forms in the Moon—or on Earth for that matter. If it’s due to an impact facet, it inverts—it’s an inverted flap; so if you’re sampling up a ray, the farther-out stuff is the deepest stuff within the crater. And as you get up near the edge of the crater, you’re sampling literally at the surface."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it really wasn’t known at that point (was it?) whether that crater was caused by impact? Or was it known to be an impact crater? Or was it still thought it might be a volcanic feature?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.609698399360727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lunar surface—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "experiment package?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—right. The second part, which was to be probably more involved in at least a hope of being better field geologists to do a better sampling—was, the EVA [Extra-Vehicular Activity], the second EVA. And, in our case, was to explore the countryside, up a slope toward a feature called Cone Crater in the Fra Mauro region of the Moon. And by strategically sampling up toward the crater, you would be sampling material that at the out—that outside ray of the crater would be the deepest material, where the crater normally forms in the Moon—or on Earth for that matter. If it’s due to an impact facet, it inverts—it’s an inverted flap; so if you’re sampling up a ray, the farther-out stuff is the deepest stuff within the crater. And as you get up near the edge of the crater, you’re sampling literally at the surface."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it really wasn’t known at that point (was it?) whether that crater was caused by impact? Or was it known to be an impact crater? Or was it still thought it might be a volcanic feature?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It was—I think it was pretty much ascertained that it was an impact crater. The whole area was hypothesized as the—some of the erupted material that had come out of the Imbrium Basin. That’s the—if you can envision a face in the Moon, that’s the left eye in the Moon. And so when that big meteorite hit impacted there, it caused splash material (molten rock); and part of that splash formed the Fra Mauro hills, which was south of that eye in the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course the early missions, 11 and 12, both had to land in relatively smooth areas because the targeting was not that precise. By the later missions, you were getting more confident in the landing procedures and willing to go into areas that might have some of the highlands or at least crustal materials in about them as opposed to the basalts."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.360925189690178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was a brief episode that from where I was on the right side, at least, certainly you felt the vibrations… for a few seconds, like the feel of maybe a holding a jackhammer kind of an effect. And it went away. Then over on the left side, of course, Jim and Jack could see the center engine light come on that it had shut down and reported it. My main concern then was not, “Could we reach Earth orbit?” But, “Would we have enough fuel left to still commit to the lunar mission?” And that—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—I thought we’d probably end up in Earth orbit, flying an alternate mission, which we did have in our plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that because with that engine shut down, you were going to have to tap into some of the third-stage propellant to make a safe orbit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that wouldn’t leave you enough then to make the translunar —"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.512139099655753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—I thought we’d probably end up in Earth orbit, flying an alternate mission, which we did have in our plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that because with that engine shut down, you were going to have to tap into some of the third-stage propellant to make a safe orbit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that wouldn’t leave you enough then to make the translunar —"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Make the commit to leave Earth orbit for the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you did have to get into that propellant a little bit to make orbit."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.79126566628417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that wouldn’t leave you enough then to make the translunar —"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Make the commit to leave Earth orbit for the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you did have to get into that propellant a little bit to make orbit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. We had the longest insertion time of the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But I think, as I recall, it was (what?) normally about 8 or 9 minutes to—for a Saturn V to put you in Earth orbit—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.21251740698241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Make the commit to leave Earth orbit for the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you did have to get into that propellant a little bit to make orbit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. We had the longest insertion time of the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But I think, as I recall, it was (what?) normally about 8 or 9 minutes to—for a Saturn V to put you in Earth orbit—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember the exact numbers, but I know it was the longest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But it—but the engine did give you a physical sensation before it shut down that something was not right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.680574896647123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. We had the longest insertion time of the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But I think, as I recall, it was (what?) normally about 8 or 9 minutes to—for a Saturn V to put you in Earth orbit—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember the exact numbers, but I know it was the longest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But it—but the engine did give you a physical sensation before it shut down that something was not right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. It—what happened was, there was a[n] instability in the feed to the engine called—an effect called Pogo. And that varies the thrust level considerably; and that variance in thrust, you know, resulted in a chug, if you will… a vertical chug up the stack. That gave us this chatter, and, as I understand it, pegged out the accelerometers on that center engine, which is on a set of crossbeams. Later talking to Marshall people, they were happy it did its shutdown when it did, when it hit a low pressure point. Because much greater excursions in that g-level may have caused structural damage to that crossbeam effect and, of course, even more catastrophic effects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. [Recorder turned off.]\n\nFred, we were talking about your launch on Apollo 13 and the shutdown of that center engine on the second stage. So you did, as it turns out, have adequate propellant not only to make a safe orbit but to get you enroute to the Moon. And, as I recall then, the early parts of your flight were really very uneventful from that point up until the oxygen tank exploded when you were about two-thirds of the way to the Moon.\\n\\n Did you have any inclination when that first happened that you had that kind of a serious problem when the tank exploded? Or was it still—was it obviously a potential showstopper in your minds, or was this just something that, “Hey, what was that?” And go about finding out what kind of a problem you really had?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.147347807723094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh absolutely. Within probably the first minute to 2 minutes, I knew we had lost the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the crew’s lunar module expert, once it became apparent that you were going to have to use the lunar module as a lifeboat (a role that it really was not designed for), how confident were you that it could be used for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I was confident it would power-up and provide the resources we needed for a time. What was not clear to me just instantly was that it—we could make it last as long as we had to make it last; namely, roughly 4 days. I did have a point—at—after we had completed the first—the activation and then the first maneuver using the landing engine to get us back on a course that would take us around the Moon—to do some back-of-the-envelope arithmetic on a—on a checklist (which I still have that page at home), that I calculated the consumables on a power-down I assumed. And I figured we would run out of—the critical element (for me at that point was water) that we would run out of about 5 hours before what was then the entry time in the plan that had been conceived.\\n\\n I felt safe with that because I also had data from LM-5 on Apollo 11, where we left that one in orbit. Before Neil and Buzz left it, they turned off the water valve, deliberately, as an engineering test. And the first major component in any system—one of the guidance and nav [navigation] components failed at 8 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well this was because, without water you can’t cool it and the temperature goes up and it shuts down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can’t cool it and it never—right, and it would fail. And so, just based on that one data point, at least, I figured we had maybe enough margin to make it even in a case of running out of water 5 hours before entry interface."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So water ended up being the most critical component or consumable on the spacecraft?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.058454083608757, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can’t cool it and it never—right, and it would fail. And so, just based on that one data point, at least, I figured we had maybe enough margin to make it even in a case of running out of water 5 hours before entry interface."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So water ended up being the most critical component or consumable on the spacecraft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Actually the most critical consumable I didn’t consider. That was the lithium cartridges. It didn’t even occur to me that we had these cartridges. LiOH or lithium cartridges were used to scrub carbon dioxide out of the air, and I completely forgot about it. The only spares in the LM were down on the MESA, a thing you would have deployed on the lunar surface. And frankly, there wasn’t enough spares, as I recall, to have sufficed anyway for 4 days. So that was the commodity we had the shortest (quote) “supply of.” And the ground—the people on the ground subsequently worked out the way of implementing the use of the square, a different shape cartridge, from the command module, which there were an abundance of, to deploy in in the lunar module."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever reach the point where the buildup of carbon dioxide was becoming noticeable in the atmosphere in the lunar module?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I recall, we did break the red line and got a master alarm on. But I never felt physically any effects… at that level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things that I recall there was quite a bit of debate about (I don’t remember how long it went on) was whether or not to use all the available propulsion, turn the spacecraft around, and head it back to Earth as quickly as possible, or go on around the Moon, use the Moon’s gravity to send the spacecraft back. A little bit longer, but it didn’t require using the service module engine. Did you have any hope that that service module engine would’ve worked if it had been needed?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.515687043616204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s absolutely correct. I have to give my hats off to the crispness of response, as I said, in this (call it) “ad hoc” mode. To me the two biggest challenges and the times I felt the most pressure during the flight was, number one, the lunar module activation and the haste at which we had to do that. The second one was the power-up of the command and service module, the mother ship, which Jack Swigert and I executed. Because it was an—again, a very—well, a new, had to be invented, procedure by people on the ground that we had never done before.\\n\\n And anything of that nature, had we known we were going to do it before flight, we’d have practiced it dozens of times in a simulator. And here we could only read through it a few times, which we did, and sort of walk through the switches and circuit breakers as to the play of that power-up. But then [we] had to do it, again, in a fairly short timeline."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was this when you were getting ready to come back from the lunar module to the command module to reenter —"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Come back to it to prepare it for entry. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was the second time I felt a great deal of pressure. Because it—we were going to have one shot at it and it had to be right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course it was a real tribute to that vehicle, that it withstood being powered down, frozen, inactive for all that period of time and then came back to life and did its mission, to get you back through the atmosphere."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.01743004846245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Come back to it to prepare it for entry. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was the second time I felt a great deal of pressure. Because it—we were going to have one shot at it and it had to be right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course it was a real tribute to that vehicle, that it withstood being powered down, frozen, inactive for all that period of time and then came back to life and did its mission, to get you back through the atmosphere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. I was—you could say the case for both vehicles, the lunar module to the degree we took the power-down and the temperatures that… violated every redline specification on literally every system in that vehicle. And similarly so in the command and service module, which obviously had never planned to be shut down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware at the time of the intense worldwide interest that had developed over your plight in getting back?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.463811164958276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was the second time I felt a great deal of pressure. Because it—we were going to have one shot at it and it had to be right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course it was a real tribute to that vehicle, that it withstood being powered down, frozen, inactive for all that period of time and then came back to life and did its mission, to get you back through the atmosphere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. I was—you could say the case for both vehicles, the lunar module to the degree we took the power-down and the temperatures that… violated every redline specification on literally every system in that vehicle. And similarly so in the command and service module, which obviously had never planned to be shut down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware at the time of the intense worldwide interest that had developed over your plight in getting back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We were not. That was never discussed on the airways, you know, what (quote) “the reception” might be by people in the U.S. or around the world. In the back of my mind I had a concern that it might be taken negatively. That, you know, here we had failed. It was planned to be the third landing mission and we weren’t going to accomplish it, and I could envision the headlines of, you know: “NASA Wastes $100M” or something on this mission that failed.\\n\\n And it was the kind of thing that bothered me not from the standpoint of I felt I was the cause of the failure, but being a part of the team as a whole, you just didn’t want to be a part of, you know, a mission that failed. And then frankly I worried that it may affect the program in some way, or even halt the program, and I certainly wouldn’t want that on my record, that I was involved in something that, you know, caused that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course the mission was a failure, but it was not perceived that way. It’s viewed today as one of NASA’s shining moments. Do you—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.90267812976281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. That was to get aligned for the entry corridor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the guidance platform had been, as you pointed out, aligned early on. Was the concern that it would have, in that amount of time, drifted off? You needed to assure that it was still accurate before doing that course correction enroute back to Earth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct. Yeah that—well, if you look at it, obviously every one of the maneuvers were important and had to be reasonably accurate. Probably the two most paramount would have been the one that first got us on the right path to go around the Moon; and the second one, which reshaped the trajectory to get the 10 hours’ relief on the return. The others were coarser burns which, obviously, if they’d tracked a while and saw that it didn’t turn out right, we could have repeated those. They were very small maneuvers; tweaks, I guess is the terminology used. We could have executed several of those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course one of the things that was significantly different about your entry into the Earth’s atmosphere from previous Apollo missions is that you still had the lunar module attached as you approached Earth and [you] had to get rid of it. Was there any concern that the lunar module and command module might collide as you were coming back into the atmosphere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I didn’t worry because that was again part of the plan that Mission Control had worked out. We set up an attitude and pressurized the tunnel—between the two vehicles. So when we separated the lunar module (and it was quite a jolt), it actually projected [the lunar module] away from us out to the side.\\n\\n So it dramatically changed its path, so as, again, to lessen that likelihood that we would have this collision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that is something that had to be taken into account. But you just felt it was properly planned for?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.4474201441809, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct. Yeah that—well, if you look at it, obviously every one of the maneuvers were important and had to be reasonably accurate. Probably the two most paramount would have been the one that first got us on the right path to go around the Moon; and the second one, which reshaped the trajectory to get the 10 hours’ relief on the return. The others were coarser burns which, obviously, if they’d tracked a while and saw that it didn’t turn out right, we could have repeated those. They were very small maneuvers; tweaks, I guess is the terminology used. We could have executed several of those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course one of the things that was significantly different about your entry into the Earth’s atmosphere from previous Apollo missions is that you still had the lunar module attached as you approached Earth and [you] had to get rid of it. Was there any concern that the lunar module and command module might collide as you were coming back into the atmosphere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I didn’t worry because that was again part of the plan that Mission Control had worked out. We set up an attitude and pressurized the tunnel—between the two vehicles. So when we separated the lunar module (and it was quite a jolt), it actually projected [the lunar module] away from us out to the side.\\n\\n So it dramatically changed its path, so as, again, to lessen that likelihood that we would have this collision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that is something that had to be taken into account. But you just felt it was properly planned for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. That was—it was just part of that final set of steps that had to get done. Before that even, the attitude at which we separated the service module in a similar way to make sure it—we wouldn’t drift back into it when we separated and shot the pictures to try to collect the—that piece of data to support the accident investigation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would imagine after you had gotten back in the command module [and] had its full power more or less available to you that this cold situation took care of itself. Things warmed up pretty rapidly at that point, didn’t they?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.27491127131211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I didn’t worry because that was again part of the plan that Mission Control had worked out. We set up an attitude and pressurized the tunnel—between the two vehicles. So when we separated the lunar module (and it was quite a jolt), it actually projected [the lunar module] away from us out to the side.\\n\\n So it dramatically changed its path, so as, again, to lessen that likelihood that we would have this collision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that is something that had to be taken into account. But you just felt it was properly planned for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. That was—it was just part of that final set of steps that had to get done. Before that even, the attitude at which we separated the service module in a similar way to make sure it—we wouldn’t drift back into it when we separated and shot the pictures to try to collect the—that piece of data to support the accident investigation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would imagine after you had gotten back in the command module [and] had its full power more or less available to you that this cold situation took care of itself. Things warmed up pretty rapidly at that point, didn’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. And it—we powered up some of the things on the LM earlier, too, so that—the combine of the two when we knew we had adequate power left in the lunar module, you know, it felt great. Because it did get pretty much [get] back to the normal temperature by the time we hit entry interface."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably a very nice sight to look out the window and see those parachutes above you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 31.416568079235677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. That was—it was just part of that final set of steps that had to get done. Before that even, the attitude at which we separated the service module in a similar way to make sure it—we wouldn’t drift back into it when we separated and shot the pictures to try to collect the—that piece of data to support the accident investigation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would imagine after you had gotten back in the command module [and] had its full power more or less available to you that this cold situation took care of itself. Things warmed up pretty rapidly at that point, didn’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. And it—we powered up some of the things on the LM earlier, too, so that—the combine of the two when we knew we had adequate power left in the lunar module, you know, it felt great. Because it did get pretty much [get] back to the normal temperature by the time we hit entry interface."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably a very nice sight to look out the window and see those parachutes above you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the time in Apollo where you really knew you had it made, when you could see the final deployment of the main chutes—at least two of the three. You knew then that there was probably nothing else could go wrong till you splashed down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well you mentioned that, in your mind and probably in Jack Swigert’s, there might be other chances; and of course you were on backup crews for other lunar missions. Were you pretty confident then that you would get another chance to go back to the Moon?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 27.12952008803964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. And it—we powered up some of the things on the LM earlier, too, so that—the combine of the two when we knew we had adequate power left in the lunar module, you know, it felt great. Because it did get pretty much [get] back to the normal temperature by the time we hit entry interface."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably a very nice sight to look out the window and see those parachutes above you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the time in Apollo where you really knew you had it made, when you could see the final deployment of the main chutes—at least two of the three. You knew then that there was probably nothing else could go wrong till you splashed down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well you mentioned that, in your mind and probably in Jack Swigert’s, there might be other chances; and of course you were on backup crews for other lunar missions. Were you pretty confident then that you would get another chance to go back to the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well yes, I was. I knew that the program had been altered in the flow of the schedules because they had injected Skylab in between what was then to be the ending missions, which would be Apollo 18 and 19. Having cycled to Apollo 16 as the commander behind John Young, with an initial crew assignment of Bill Pogue [William R. Pogue] as the command module pilot and Jerry Carr [Gerald P. Carr] as the lunar module pilot, I did hope and expected that I would get a chance to cycle through that backup assignment and be—we would be the crew for Apollo 19, which at that time was advertised as the last mission of the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was a very good prospect that you would have made an Apollo flight and had that opportunity to walk on the Moon, until those last two flights got canceled."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.477244542266266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the time in Apollo where you really knew you had it made, when you could see the final deployment of the main chutes—at least two of the three. You knew then that there was probably nothing else could go wrong till you splashed down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well you mentioned that, in your mind and probably in Jack Swigert’s, there might be other chances; and of course you were on backup crews for other lunar missions. Were you pretty confident then that you would get another chance to go back to the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well yes, I was. I knew that the program had been altered in the flow of the schedules because they had injected Skylab in between what was then to be the ending missions, which would be Apollo 18 and 19. Having cycled to Apollo 16 as the commander behind John Young, with an initial crew assignment of Bill Pogue [William R. Pogue] as the command module pilot and Jerry Carr [Gerald P. Carr] as the lunar module pilot, I did hope and expected that I would get a chance to cycle through that backup assignment and be—we would be the crew for Apollo 19, which at that time was advertised as the last mission of the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was a very good prospect that you would have made an Apollo flight and had that opportunity to walk on the Moon, until those last two flights got canceled."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I don’t recall how many—how long we were in that training cycle. Probably a couple of months (2 or 3 months) where that eventuality did happen. 18 and 19 were canceled. Bill Pogue and Jerry Carr were cycled then into the Skylab Program to give them an opportunity to fly. And I inherited Stu Roosa [Stuart A. Roosa] and Ed Mitchell [Edgar D. Mitchell] off of 14 to complete that deadhead backup assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a sense, ironically, the loss of Apollo 13 and the near-loss of the crew on that mission was probably a factor in the decision to cut short the remainder of the program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.280548817612672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I don’t recall how many—how long we were in that training cycle. Probably a couple of months (2 or 3 months) where that eventuality did happen. 18 and 19 were canceled. Bill Pogue and Jerry Carr were cycled then into the Skylab Program to give them an opportunity to fly. And I inherited Stu Roosa [Stuart A. Roosa] and Ed Mitchell [Edgar D. Mitchell] off of 14 to complete that deadhead backup assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a sense, ironically, the loss of Apollo 13 and the near-loss of the crew on that mission was probably a factor in the decision to cut short the remainder of the program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t—I cannot really attest to—not having been involved in that decision-making, what was the cause. I frankly surmised it was more one of budgeting. And the hiatus of the—of trying to cycle through Skylab and then get back in the (quote) “lunar mode” over a fair number of years, it would [drag] that out. And the thought of the Agency of getting on with the next program, whatever that may be. I guess in those days there was probably still a buy-in between Space Station or Shuttle (let’s call it (quote) “the next step”). And so I think it was that concern of not having sufficient budget to both continue as well as have sufficient budget to get the next program under way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course there wasn’t much beyond that, that the Shuttle became a very serious consideration; and the costs associated with—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—getting the Shuttle off the ground were a big factor."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.0894986862363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t—I cannot really attest to—not having been involved in that decision-making, what was the cause. I frankly surmised it was more one of budgeting. And the hiatus of the—of trying to cycle through Skylab and then get back in the (quote) “lunar mode” over a fair number of years, it would [drag] that out. And the thought of the Agency of getting on with the next program, whatever that may be. I guess in those days there was probably still a buy-in between Space Station or Shuttle (let’s call it (quote) “the next step”). And so I think it was that concern of not having sufficient budget to both continue as well as have sufficient budget to get the next program under way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course there wasn’t much beyond that, that the Shuttle became a very serious consideration; and the costs associated with—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—getting the Shuttle off the ground were a big factor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And there was probably a—certainly a feeling of risk versus gain. We were flying vehicles that were, at best, redundant and two string. And, you know, rather precarious sitting out at the Moon. So it probably was, you know, from the landings that had been made or were already committed to be made, there was probably in NASA’s management’s view a risk versus gain of, you know, “Should we take this hiatus from the program and then come back at it again and have that—face the risk of eventually losing a crew?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course in hindsight, you know many of the people in the country today weren’t around when Apollo flew, but it’s perceived as being the highpoint of NASA’s career as a space agency. And yet, in reality, in addition to the crew that we lost in the Apollo fire, there were a number of really close calls in the Apollo Program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.9176389677539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now it was—to me it was just remarkable. I mean, I’d been involved in the test business before, and one example is: We did have a problem on Joe Engle [Joe H. Engle] and Dick Truly’s [Richard H. Truly] second flight—second free flight, where they had a leak in a hydrazine tank on the APU [Auxiliary Power Unit] system, which did damage some wire bundles. And they turned that around, if I recall, in 9 days’… including weekends, which caused Gordo [Charles. G. Fullerton] and I, we really, even for the simple kind of flight plan we had to fly, we were pushed to be ready with the training to make that next flight. Turn[ed] it around in 9 days flat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You flew (what?) two of the captive flight tests and three of the free flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I flew a total of five of the total eight flight program. …Again we cut the captive short. We only did three; originally I think we had five of those planned, but we got what we needed in three. And then we flew five free flights. Gordo [Charles G.] Fullerton and I flew three of the five."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And Fullerton was your second in command on all of those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that require you getting back into the Astronaut Office?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.686265519726554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I flew a total of five of the total eight flight program. …Again we cut the captive short. We only did three; originally I think we had five of those planned, but we got what we needed in three. And then we flew five free flights. Gordo [Charles G.] Fullerton and I flew three of the five."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And Fullerton was your second in command on all of those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that require you getting back into the Astronaut Office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. No, I’d cycled back into the Astronaut Office probably about a year before that first free flight. And in that role, we went back to the more traditional role, even before flight, of being a participant in the testing of the real hardware at Palmdale [California] (in that case), involvement with the software development and the discrepancies that were showing up in the loads, both through our simulation, which could accurately work that because we had real IBM-101 computers that were being used in the simulation of Shuttle.\\n\\n So when the new software load came, the problems we saw in the simulator were identical to what you would see in the real vehicle or in SAIL [Shuttle Avionics Integration Laboratory], which is [an] avionics test facility here at Johnson Space Center. So we had all those kind of involvements working with Mission Control people again and in that same timeframe, defining the flight plans, procedures; and with the Test people at the NASA and the contractors, where the vehicles were being put together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While it’s not unusual in an aircraft program, in a space—in the space program, it was a bit of an anomaly to fly a vehicle manned for the first time. We’d always done unmanned test flights. Was this any particular concern or consideration from your point of view?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00220:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.6483412703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The real flights on the back of 747 were unusual in a couple of respects, one a real surprise. When we first rode on top, you couldn’t see the 747, no matter how, you know, you’d lean over and try to look out the side window or—it just—you couldn’t view any part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not even a wingtip?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not even a wingtip. So it was kind of like a magic carpet ride, you know. You’re just moving along the ground and then you take off. And something below you, you knew it was there, but you couldn’t see what was taking you aloft. It was also deceptive sitting up that high. Things always looked like it was going slower than it was, for your taxiing and particularly the first takeoff I really thought Fitz had rotated too early. It didn’t look like we were going fast enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fitz—Fitz—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fitz Fulton, who was flying—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—who was flying the 747."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00803:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.89, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's very important. And, in addition, yesterday, for example, we had a gathering that one could almost call kind of a goodbye gathering, kind of to celebrate the end of Phase 1. And when the Russian program director, Valery [Victorovitch] Ryumin, stood up to deliver his assessment of the results of the program, the first item that he noted was not the solution of the engineering problems, despite the fact that they were nonetheless very significant, if I have in any way made that clear in the course of a short interview, he said the most important thing was the joint common experience that had been gained, the working together of people, the mutual work of experts and specialists, the mutual understanding, the good will, and that it was these qualities that would assure successful future work in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have spoken to many people as part of this history program. That sentiment has been expressed by almost everyone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The same."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It has been a common thread of all we've talked to. They talk very successfully of the technical achievements and have much pride in what they accomplished technically and for the future of space, but you can tell that their hearts overflow with the feeling of getting to know their international partners very well as friends and colleagues and know that this will set the pace for the next part of the space station exploration."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00803:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.1, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The same."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It has been a common thread of all we've talked to. They talk very successfully of the technical achievements and have much pride in what they accomplished technically and for the future of space, but you can tell that their hearts overflow with the feeling of getting to know their international partners very well as friends and colleagues and know that this will set the pace for the next part of the space station exploration."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I understand. We, in Russia, call it that manual factor. You understand?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. What are your future plans?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00803:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It has been a common thread of all we've talked to. They talk very successfully of the technical achievements and have much pride in what they accomplished technically and for the future of space, but you can tell that their hearts overflow with the feeling of getting to know their international partners very well as friends and colleagues and know that this will set the pace for the next part of the space station exploration."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I understand. We, in Russia, call it that manual factor. You understand?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. What are your future plans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, I've got rather grand plans, big plans. I have for a fairly long time now been involved in Phase 2. I'm the director on the Russian side of the working group on rendezvous and docking. We've got a number of years of close work with our American colleagues in front of us, because, as was the case with Mir, the International Space Station will be visited by space vehicles from both Russia and America. There's a number of technical and engineering issues that face us, and some of them will be more complex than those that we faced with the Mir-Shuttle program, so we have quite a bit of work to do, and we look forward to a successful accomplishment of that work when we're ready to perform it. Despite the fact that we have all of these issues to contend with, some of which will be addressed after the start of station construction, we nonetheless have a certain core set of problems that must be addressed in the short time frame before we start the International Space Station.\\n\\n So those, briefly speaking, are our plans, and as I've said before, thanks to our successful work in Phase 1, we stand ready to work with our American colleagues toward the successful resolution of the issues to do with the International Space Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This concludes our interview with you, and before we say thank you once again, we wish you many successes, and we hope all of your challenges are achieved without too much stress."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00803:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 10.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I understand. We, in Russia, call it that manual factor. You understand?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. What are your future plans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, I've got rather grand plans, big plans. I have for a fairly long time now been involved in Phase 2. I'm the director on the Russian side of the working group on rendezvous and docking. We've got a number of years of close work with our American colleagues in front of us, because, as was the case with Mir, the International Space Station will be visited by space vehicles from both Russia and America. There's a number of technical and engineering issues that face us, and some of them will be more complex than those that we faced with the Mir-Shuttle program, so we have quite a bit of work to do, and we look forward to a successful accomplishment of that work when we're ready to perform it. Despite the fact that we have all of these issues to contend with, some of which will be addressed after the start of station construction, we nonetheless have a certain core set of problems that must be addressed in the short time frame before we start the International Space Station.\\n\\n So those, briefly speaking, are our plans, and as I've said before, thanks to our successful work in Phase 1, we stand ready to work with our American colleagues toward the successful resolution of the issues to do with the International Space Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This concludes our interview with you, and before we say thank you once again, we wish you many successes, and we hope all of your challenges are achieved without too much stress."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've welcome, and thank you again for spending time with us this morning.\n\nWould you share on camera the interview that you--would you explain about your interview that took place in Russia. Tell us again about the magazine* so that we can have it on the recorder so we will be able to share that with others. [*Semyachkin presented a copy of a magazine to NASA JSC Oral History Project that featured an article about him.]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00131:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 48.917075066100004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and it was not meant to be a “let’s make sure you understand” meeting. It was meant to be a “I’m going to get your ideas.” I think the Vice President, in leading the meeting, was gently trying to persuade people, but he was not there to be the apologist for the space program. He was genuinely, I think, trying to have a dialogue and get people’s thoughts and ideas, and not be confronting and disagreeing with people. He did, though, on that one, he did say, “Really?” or something to that effect. [Laughs] It caught him by surprise, too; it was, “Really?” But then he rightly didn’t push back on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that sort of feeling led to part of the demise, too, that people weren’t buying into how it would affect them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. It was, yes. I probably shouldn’t generalize this fully, but I think there was not, in those meetings, other than in the space leadership meeting, not surprisingly—people didn’t just exhibit great enthusiasm; I’ll put it that way. I mean, they were nice. These are very sophisticated and very smart people. But they did not exhibit great enthusiasm. Several, but not many, just outright said, “You shouldn’t do this.” But the tone of the meetings was more, “That’s interesting,” and I think the White House picked up on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I read that [Dr.] Carl [Edward] Sagan [astronomer] was one of the people that was in one of those meetings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was. It’s an interesting list of people, when you look at the folks in all those different meetings, very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you were replaced at NASA Headquarters and you came back to JSC as the Manager for Technical Projects in the Space Station Projects Office, how did that change come about? Obviously, you said Mike Griffin had replaced you at Headquarters, but how did you come back to that position and what were your duties?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00131:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 35, "return_to_go": 54.35230562900001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. It was, yes. I probably shouldn’t generalize this fully, but I think there was not, in those meetings, other than in the space leadership meeting, not surprisingly—people didn’t just exhibit great enthusiasm; I’ll put it that way. I mean, they were nice. These are very sophisticated and very smart people. But they did not exhibit great enthusiasm. Several, but not many, just outright said, “You shouldn’t do this.” But the tone of the meetings was more, “That’s interesting,” and I think the White House picked up on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I read that [Dr.] Carl [Edward] Sagan [astronomer] was one of the people that was in one of those meetings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was. It’s an interesting list of people, when you look at the folks in all those different meetings, very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you were replaced at NASA Headquarters and you came back to JSC as the Manager for Technical Projects in the Space Station Projects Office, how did that change come about? Obviously, you said Mike Griffin had replaced you at Headquarters, but how did you come back to that position and what were your duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is one of those cases I’m sure you’ve never encountered before, where one’s job description and job title are completely different. [Laughter] You’re shocked, I can tell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not at NASA. [Laughs]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00131:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.41, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Again, not to generalize, because certainly not everyone. Because a lot of the leadership here wanted that to happen. But a lot of the people, many people, felt that that was a mistake. Too complicated, too costly, dealing with people that—who are those people? All the kind of things that happen when you have a collision of cultures. And it was very hard to do, but I think it was (a) the right thing to do for Space Station, because it survived, and (b) strategically, for the future, it’s absolutely the right thing to do. But that was a hard time, and it took someone like Mr. Goldin who just—“Torpedoes be damned,” and who was very politically attuned, to make that happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, there was that cooperation that eventually came out of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, which we’re all better for, and really has begun to create a human exploration of space enterprise, which is, I think, to the benefit of all of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it gets the attention of the entire world this way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it does. It could get more attention if we’d do better at it, but we don’t. We’re engineers. Back to my earlier comment about really thinking through why we’re here and shaping it to respond to that, not just build hardware, is a problem. It is in that, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, from that position you were asked to go to Stennis Space Center [Mississippi] in 1995 as the Deputy Director."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00131:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 34, "return_to_go": 34.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, which we’re all better for, and really has begun to create a human exploration of space enterprise, which is, I think, to the benefit of all of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it gets the attention of the entire world this way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it does. It could get more attention if we’d do better at it, but we don’t. We’re engineers. Back to my earlier comment about really thinking through why we’re here and shaping it to respond to that, not just build hardware, is a problem. It is in that, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, from that position you were asked to go to Stennis Space Center [Mississippi] in 1995 as the Deputy Director."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we missed a step here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did we? Okay, well, let’s go back."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00080:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 66.82406230678151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I guess I've always been in that process that when one program is starting to get routine, I've moved on to the next one. I prefer it that way. In the same way, I got very little involved in Skylab. When I say very little involved, there were always exercises that you could get picked on for. I mean, I got charged by Bob [Robert F.] Thompson, or requested by Bob Thompson, to be on a technical panel that evaluated the suits for Skylab, the maneuvering unit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Manned Maneuvering Unit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Astronaut Maneuvering Unit, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, things like that, so there would always be the possibility of some involvement, but as in the main you were employed on something else as a main track."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was it the same then for the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00080:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 30, "return_to_go": 74.24895811864613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Astronaut Maneuvering Unit, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, things like that, so there would always be the possibility of some involvement, but as in the main you were employed on something else as a main track."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was it the same then for the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, with Space Station that kind of went away in favor of Space Shuttle first."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00080:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 43.144072476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It doesn't come through very clearly. If I'd been doing any reading on U.S. space activities, it seemed to me it was mostly concerned with the effort on the West Coast, dropping the vehicles from high-flying aircraft and boosting into space that way. I can distinctly remember being interviewed at AVRO by, I think it was Chuck Mathews, and asking about that, were they connected with that. I think he was a little bit taken aback, he said, \"No.\" He said, \"We're going to put a capsule on top of an Atlas booster.\"\\n\\n I kind of grinned and said, \"Sounds like a good idea.\" [Laughter]\\n\\n I should say my first trip after I joined NASA was down the Cape to see an Atlas launch. It blew up about 100 feet off the pad, and I kind of thought it was going to be a long hard road before we'd stick a man on top of one of those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that certainly wasn't a rare sight at that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was very frequent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But, no, I don't remember much about concerning—as I say, I remember seeing the Sputnik and wondering what the United States' response would be. I guess I'd read about the efforts by the Navy to launch a satellite, failed efforts. But, no, I was too involved in trying to make a way in Canada."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Later on when you were part of the space program, and shortly after Al [Alan B.] Shepard's[Jr.] flight, President [John F.] Kennedy made his famous \"get to the moon by the end of the decade\" speech. Do you remember that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00080:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd worked with some good people before, both in England and Canada, but certainly my impressions of the Space Task Group people when I first went there, I was really impressed. My first few years with NASA I consider the happiest part of my life. It was ideal. Interesting job, very few politics, guys that I liked, and to some degree exploring the U.S.A., which I didn't know much about, so it all came together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still keeping up with the space program and what's going on nowadays?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not for the last year or two. I have a friend who's working for the successor to Eagle, Muniz Engineering [Inc.], and we correspond by e-mail and he lets me know sometimes what the latest Space Station disasters are. I check out the NASA Watch. Is it NASA Watch site, the rebel station or whatever it is? I get a lot of information from that, never know whether to believe it or not, but I check it out. [Laughter] But, no, not a lot the last couple of years. Before that, I used to keep in touch quite regularly, especially going to Eagle meetings and listening to what was going on there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just thinking, the recent flight with Eileen Collins, where they had the computer failures—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't know anything about that. I read about it, just what was in the newspapers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back on your career as a whole, what do you think the biggest challenge was for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00080:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not for the last year or two. I have a friend who's working for the successor to Eagle, Muniz Engineering [Inc.], and we correspond by e-mail and he lets me know sometimes what the latest Space Station disasters are. I check out the NASA Watch. Is it NASA Watch site, the rebel station or whatever it is? I get a lot of information from that, never know whether to believe it or not, but I check it out. [Laughter] But, no, not a lot the last couple of years. Before that, I used to keep in touch quite regularly, especially going to Eagle meetings and listening to what was going on there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just thinking, the recent flight with Eileen Collins, where they had the computer failures—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't know anything about that. I read about it, just what was in the newspapers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back on your career as a whole, what do you think the biggest challenge was for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'd have to say STS-1 verification, the last job I did. It's certainly the one that gave me the most gray hairs, I guess. It's the only one I got a peacetime medal for, so it must be considered to be the one, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you feel is the most significant accomplishment you made in the space program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00080:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't know anything about that. I read about it, just what was in the newspapers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back on your career as a whole, what do you think the biggest challenge was for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'd have to say STS-1 verification, the last job I did. It's certainly the one that gave me the most gray hairs, I guess. It's the only one I got a peacetime medal for, so it must be considered to be the one, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you feel is the most significant accomplishment you made in the space program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, the same thing, yes. I don't think anybody knew who I was until I got that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you'd like to talk about before—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00486:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a moment of levity but yes, it was like, “Who’s the jinx, we don’t know. You better go now, we don’t want you to come back. We don’t want to go back into training. As much as we love you, it’s tiring.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine. How long were the crews in training before they flew generally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Early on it was about a year. The IUS, the inertial upper stage, was the booster that was going to [boost Chandra to orbit] once Chandra was out of the payload bay, and it was an Air Force device. We had several slips for whatever reasons, I honestly can’t even remember now. Those happen. Then an Air Force launch got up into orbit but then the IUS, when it deployed, the satellite tumbled. They ended up losing their payload. We slipped a while till they could go out and check our IUS, because it was the same basic system, because we were using that. So we slipped to make sure that there wasn’t any issue once they had worked through and discovered what that problem was.\\n\\n It was about a year and a half that we trained 93, start to finish. I can look up one thing. I can probably tell you when we did our first sim and when we did our last one. [Refers to logbooks]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are great resources, glad to see you saved them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started in April of ’98 and they launched late July of ’99. So it was a year and three months. That’s about how long it was. The last sim was on—let me see if I can find it. I may have another book. I think I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say that looks like a whole book for that mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00486:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Early on it was about a year. The IUS, the inertial upper stage, was the booster that was going to [boost Chandra to orbit] once Chandra was out of the payload bay, and it was an Air Force device. We had several slips for whatever reasons, I honestly can’t even remember now. Those happen. Then an Air Force launch got up into orbit but then the IUS, when it deployed, the satellite tumbled. They ended up losing their payload. We slipped a while till they could go out and check our IUS, because it was the same basic system, because we were using that. So we slipped to make sure that there wasn’t any issue once they had worked through and discovered what that problem was.\\n\\n It was about a year and a half that we trained 93, start to finish. I can look up one thing. I can probably tell you when we did our first sim and when we did our last one. [Refers to logbooks]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are great resources, glad to see you saved them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started in April of ’98 and they launched late July of ’99. So it was a year and three months. That’s about how long it was. The last sim was on—let me see if I can find it. I may have another book. I think I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say that looks like a whole book for that mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I ran out here. There’s probably another one in here. Volume one, if I’d looked I would have known that. Anyway it would have been a week before they launched. So it would have been late July was our last sim. I don’t see volume two in here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So launch is like graduation day for the crew."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00486:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started in April of ’98 and they launched late July of ’99. So it was a year and three months. That’s about how long it was. The last sim was on—let me see if I can find it. I may have another book. I think I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say that looks like a whole book for that mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I ran out here. There’s probably another one in here. Volume one, if I’d looked I would have known that. Anyway it would have been a week before they launched. So it would have been late July was our last sim. I don’t see volume two in here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So launch is like graduation day for the crew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it is, and for us it’s the culmination of all your work as a training team member. Then when you come back you go back into generic sims. It’s a little bit of a letdown after that, but you get to see how well your crew does and watch the mission. When you come back [from the launch] you go to Mission Control [to the sim control area to watch the mission activities].\\n\\n One last thing I’ll leave you with on the 93 mission that was just fabulous. During the entry day there’s a famous shot now someone took outside JSC. We were sitting in Mission Control, and we knew they were going to fly over Houston. The conditions were going to be right that we could probably see the plasma trail. We had to run down about the time, because the flight controllers are saying when they’re going to be visible, this and that, and this and that. They couldn’t leave. We were hearing that, and we ran outside into the parking lot in Mission Control Center. By golly, that thing just came flying right by, really high, but this beautiful bright orange plasma trail trailing behind it. You may see this picture around, or you may have already seen it, but there’s one, because someone took it, one of the photographers here at JSC, right above the Saturn V before it was encased. It was just gorgeous streak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I have seen that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00486:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it is, and for us it’s the culmination of all your work as a training team member. Then when you come back you go back into generic sims. It’s a little bit of a letdown after that, but you get to see how well your crew does and watch the mission. When you come back [from the launch] you go to Mission Control [to the sim control area to watch the mission activities].\\n\\n One last thing I’ll leave you with on the 93 mission that was just fabulous. During the entry day there’s a famous shot now someone took outside JSC. We were sitting in Mission Control, and we knew they were going to fly over Houston. The conditions were going to be right that we could probably see the plasma trail. We had to run down about the time, because the flight controllers are saying when they’re going to be visible, this and that, and this and that. They couldn’t leave. We were hearing that, and we ran outside into the parking lot in Mission Control Center. By golly, that thing just came flying right by, really high, but this beautiful bright orange plasma trail trailing behind it. You may see this picture around, or you may have already seen it, but there’s one, because someone took it, one of the photographers here at JSC, right above the Saturn V before it was encased. It was just gorgeous streak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I have seen that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s Eileen and STS-93 on entry. Once we lost sight of them, you had to get back up if you wanted to watch the landing data in Mission Control Center, because they were going to be in Florida really quickly and landing. You didn’t want to miss that. When we heard they were going to fly by, that was just a special moment. “Wow, look at that.” That’s an Orbiter and five people that I know and I work with and care a lot about, are [they] in that moving piece of plasma."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That huge trail moving lickety-split across the sky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I’m looking at the clock and it’s actually noon. You want to stop?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.81920002626689, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a long time ago to try to remember why. I mean, I don't know why I did something yesterday. Let alone 40 years ago. It just seemed like it seemed like, just the right the right thing to do. I was ready, I was ready for an adventure. I'd spent the summer in Europe the year before traveling around. I thought I could manage in the international environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a specific country or project that you were interested?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, it was at that point, it was pretty much of a crapshoot. You were going to go wherever they want to send you. I was, I thought, oh, that would be. My preference was something where they spoke Spanish. Of course I got Brazil, which speaks Portuguese. So that was. I really can't give you a motivation. I'm sure there was something noble about it. I can't remember that at this time nor did I get drunk and sign up. I think it was a pretty deliberate point of looking for an adventure, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. What were your friends and family’s reactions when you were accepted? Was there any hesitation or reservations either on your part or on their part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, besides my girlfriend not being very happy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the first I've heard that one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.799111140296546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, it was at that point, it was pretty much of a crapshoot. You were going to go wherever they want to send you. I was, I thought, oh, that would be. My preference was something where they spoke Spanish. Of course I got Brazil, which speaks Portuguese. So that was. I really can't give you a motivation. I'm sure there was something noble about it. I can't remember that at this time nor did I get drunk and sign up. I think it was a pretty deliberate point of looking for an adventure, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. What were your friends and family’s reactions when you were accepted? Was there any hesitation or reservations either on your part or on their part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, besides my girlfriend not being very happy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the first I've heard that one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, I don't think she was too pleased and maybe it was a premise I didn't want to get married at the time, and that was another motivation motivating factor going away for two years to give me two years to grow up. I don't know, I don't think they were terribly comfortable with it, I think it was scary for them to have me go far away and not quite know what kind of an environment I was go into. I wasn't that concerned about it. But that's part of my sort of worldview about things will work out something positive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. What project were you invited to join?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.221234600329497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, besides my girlfriend not being very happy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the first I've heard that one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, I don't think she was too pleased and maybe it was a premise I didn't want to get married at the time, and that was another motivation motivating factor going away for two years to give me two years to grow up. I don't know, I don't think they were terribly comfortable with it, I think it was scary for them to have me go far away and not quite know what kind of an environment I was go into. I wasn't that concerned about it. But that's part of my sort of worldview about things will work out something positive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. What project were you invited to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Invited? What was I assigned to? It was a focus on distributing Food for Peace in rural schools, which is what our whole group was supposed to work on, is fostering the use of the powdered milk that Food for Peace, McGovern Food for Peace was distributing. They had other they had other projects, and our major purpose was to encourage rural school systems, primarily rural mayors in Brazil, to develop and expand school lunch programs. There was a great concern that the school lunch stuff was coming into a few schools and it was just being handed out in powdered form for the kids. And so they weren't getting the nutritional value, and very often they weren't certainly getting the hygienic value of cooked milk and water prepared, et cetera, for drinking the milk and how it was being used by the families. So it's really a premise of trying to set up a lunch, fixed lunchtime with a meal, with whatever they could use, and that was both in the plaza and the city centers, as well as a number of ex schools that were outside of the municipality. The municipality I was in was 90 miles square, 90 miles by 90 miles. So that's what, 80,100 miles square. But it was 90 by 90, so the schools are spread out all over the place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did what did they do with the powdered milk before they got somebody to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.557079753493205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Invited? What was I assigned to? It was a focus on distributing Food for Peace in rural schools, which is what our whole group was supposed to work on, is fostering the use of the powdered milk that Food for Peace, McGovern Food for Peace was distributing. They had other they had other projects, and our major purpose was to encourage rural school systems, primarily rural mayors in Brazil, to develop and expand school lunch programs. There was a great concern that the school lunch stuff was coming into a few schools and it was just being handed out in powdered form for the kids. And so they weren't getting the nutritional value, and very often they weren't certainly getting the hygienic value of cooked milk and water prepared, et cetera, for drinking the milk and how it was being used by the families. So it's really a premise of trying to set up a lunch, fixed lunchtime with a meal, with whatever they could use, and that was both in the plaza and the city centers, as well as a number of ex schools that were outside of the municipality. The municipality I was in was 90 miles square, 90 miles by 90 miles. So that's what, 80,100 miles square. But it was 90 by 90, so the schools are spread out all over the place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did what did they do with the powdered milk before they got somebody to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well before the mayor really sort of signed up for the program and it was, you get a Peace Corps volunteer to help you do this. And we had just apparently just had a change in office at the town I went to. I think the stuff just sort of went and sat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it didn't ever get used."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it wasn't, it was a very I was primarily in the two schools that were in the city and it didn't get out to the rural school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was that through CARE or something like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.174533059436897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well before the mayor really sort of signed up for the program and it was, you get a Peace Corps volunteer to help you do this. And we had just apparently just had a change in office at the town I went to. I think the stuff just sort of went and sat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it didn't ever get used."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it wasn't, it was a very I was primarily in the two schools that were in the city and it didn't get out to the rural school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was that through CARE or something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn't through CARE. It was really through a government, U.S. government program that went to the that was giving Food for Peace, labeled Your Food for Peace, the United States of America and distributed to Brazil. And then they had Brazil, had a government leader, state affiliated with the governor's office, whose job it was to distribute, get the stuff out and use the Peace Corps mechanism to do that to a lot of, to most of the cities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is going back a little. Did you prepare yourself at all for being away two years, I imagine probably not too much because."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 16.86059228826322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it wasn't, it was a very I was primarily in the two schools that were in the city and it didn't get out to the rural school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was that through CARE or something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn't through CARE. It was really through a government, U.S. government program that went to the that was giving Food for Peace, labeled Your Food for Peace, the United States of America and distributed to Brazil. And then they had Brazil, had a government leader, state affiliated with the governor's office, whose job it was to distribute, get the stuff out and use the Peace Corps mechanism to do that to a lot of, to most of the cities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is going back a little. Did you prepare yourself at all for being away two years, I imagine probably not too much because."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, I'd just been away for four years, yeah, but for two more years wasn't much more difference to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's talk about your training. Where was it? What was the faculty like, the syllabus, technical studies, reaction to other trainees?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.408138627485457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, I'd just been away for four years, yeah, but for two more years wasn't much more difference to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's talk about your training. Where was it? What was the faculty like, the syllabus, technical studies, reaction to other trainees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was in Georgetown University in the summer. So it's always nice to be in Washington, D.C., in July and August. It was just stifling. But we were on the Georgetown campus. We had, well, I would say excellent, excellent teachers. A number of them were, not quite refugees, but they were political asylum type folks who had left the country, Brazil, because it was a dictatorship at the time, it was a military dictatorship. So they were in the States, to some extent, do their activism. That's just information we gather, we really sort of get a head full of their philosophies. I thought the syllabus was good, I'm just I'm not very good at languages. It was a real struggle to pick up Portuguese for me, even though I'd had college level Spanish. And it wasn't much of an immersion, unfortunately, so that didn't that didn't help either. It was sort of another class. All I remember is the language, while I remember the language classes, and I remember animal husbandry that we had to do because we were in a nutrition program, we were supposed to raise rabbits and chickens and all sorts of different gardens and they taught us how to kill chickens and how to kill rabbits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is all at Georgetown?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All at Georgetown, I couldn't imagine, for such an urban environment. That was how to. Yeah. They worked on the nutrition aspect of it. And they taught us how to be good wives. That was an interesting premise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how many were in your group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.973010651216612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All at Georgetown, I couldn't imagine, for such an urban environment. That was how to. Yeah. They worked on the nutrition aspect of it. And they taught us how to be good wives. That was an interesting premise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how many were in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There may have been 20 of us to start. Yeah, there was probably about 20 of us. We had two groups that were in Peace Corps training at the time. There was another group that was. At the University of, I teach at the university level, so these are primarily master's degree people who were on campus with us. And their job was, I'm not sure what they were going to do at the universities, but I think they were going to be assigned to Brazilian universities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the selection process, were there surprises, disappointments, enjoyments, you know, or did you lose a lot of people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think. I think I do remember the anxiety at the end of our training when people were still waiting for their FBI background check. And that just took forever, and it got pretty nip and tuck at the end as well where somebody was going to go or not. Which created anxiety for all of us because we got fairly close. I think a few of the people that had gone through the training didn't go. And they really were cut loose or didn't they didn't. I don't. I don't recall any of that came in our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all of the training was it was here in the States, is that right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.936914473548162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, through the Experiment in International Living, they had contract for our initial in-country stay. And so we stayed for a month. Each of us was assigned a family home. And so we were in, our group is divided into two. Half of them went to Espírito Santo, which is on the coast of Brazil, and the other half went into the interior into the state of Goiás, where I was, and the capital of Goiás is Goiânia and it was a city of about 350,000 people. And so we were each with the 10 of us, 10 or 12 of us that came by the, um, each was assigned to a family home. And when we got, when we landed in Goiânia, we were just sort of taken off by these families with the in-country leader, was situated in Goiânia and he was in the capital city. And so we lived with these families for a month before we were then assigned to our specific villages that we went out to. Nobody stayed in the capital city"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the month was in the capital city and then you went out to places."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so and it wasn't there were meetings, but primarily it was an adjustment time. There was I don't recall us having a great deal of additional training. In the capital city, most of it was living life with these, these people basically working on the language skills, which was the crucial part. So that was the immersion, that was the beginning of the immersion process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any choice in where you're going all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, they just said.\n\nIn pairs or singly?\n\nI think we were all singly assigned. So, yeah, we're all in our own town by ourselves. There was a married couple that stayed together. The rest were all distributed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. How do you feel that the training prepared you and was it useful to your service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.92990497060907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so and it wasn't there were meetings, but primarily it was an adjustment time. There was I don't recall us having a great deal of additional training. In the capital city, most of it was living life with these, these people basically working on the language skills, which was the crucial part. So that was the immersion, that was the beginning of the immersion process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any choice in where you're going all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, they just said.\n\nIn pairs or singly?\n\nI think we were all singly assigned. So, yeah, we're all in our own town by ourselves. There was a married couple that stayed together. The rest were all distributed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. How do you feel that the training prepared you and was it useful to your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the language was at least a start. And it gave me some. They gave me some confidence to try some things. I think that was in there, trying to raise rabbits and did other things and start a garden. Things like that. The success there, I think, is really dependent on the politicians and the individual towns. My mayor was a real successful farmer, just became mayor, was pretty illiterate, but he was very committed to the project, so that made the difference.\n\nSo the mayor assigned somebody, assigned me a driver and a truck, a Land Rover, stick shift Land Rover, which I didn't drive, that would have been nice to have some training because I didn't drive stick. No idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a driver though?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.033227745121188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, they just said.\n\nIn pairs or singly?\n\nI think we were all singly assigned. So, yeah, we're all in our own town by ourselves. There was a married couple that stayed together. The rest were all distributed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. How do you feel that the training prepared you and was it useful to your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the language was at least a start. And it gave me some. They gave me some confidence to try some things. I think that was in there, trying to raise rabbits and did other things and start a garden. Things like that. The success there, I think, is really dependent on the politicians and the individual towns. My mayor was a real successful farmer, just became mayor, was pretty illiterate, but he was very committed to the project, so that made the difference.\n\nSo the mayor assigned somebody, assigned me a driver and a truck, a Land Rover, stick shift Land Rover, which I didn't drive, that would have been nice to have some training because I didn't drive stick. No idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a driver though?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a driver and I had somebody that the mayor paid to be the escolar coordinator. So we traveled everywhere together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your primary focus was setting up the the lunch programs. Now what about, you know, gardening and rabbits and chickens?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.259141939023541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the language was at least a start. And it gave me some. They gave me some confidence to try some things. I think that was in there, trying to raise rabbits and did other things and start a garden. Things like that. The success there, I think, is really dependent on the politicians and the individual towns. My mayor was a real successful farmer, just became mayor, was pretty illiterate, but he was very committed to the project, so that made the difference.\n\nSo the mayor assigned somebody, assigned me a driver and a truck, a Land Rover, stick shift Land Rover, which I didn't drive, that would have been nice to have some training because I didn't drive stick. No idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a driver though?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a driver and I had somebody that the mayor paid to be the escolar coordinator. So we traveled everywhere together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your primary focus was setting up the the lunch programs. Now what about, you know, gardening and rabbits and chickens?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I tried all that, but it all failed. Yeah, the ants ate all the gardens and the rabbits. The dogs killed the rabbits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I introduced rabbits to my village. And then when I went back, you know, 15 years later, there were no rabbits left, but at least I started."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.621268821137267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a driver and I had somebody that the mayor paid to be the escolar coordinator. So we traveled everywhere together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your primary focus was setting up the the lunch programs. Now what about, you know, gardening and rabbits and chickens?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I tried all that, but it all failed. Yeah, the ants ate all the gardens and the rabbits. The dogs killed the rabbits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I introduced rabbits to my village. And then when I went back, you know, 15 years later, there were no rabbits left, but at least I started."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you got it going. I kept only these cages and the wood and those materials are really pretty dear at the time. The dogs just were adamant about the rabbits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I just ran into another guy that was in my group who was actually coming here to work as an organizer on the recall campaign for Darling."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.81638126066329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you got it going. I kept only these cages and the wood and those materials are really pretty dear at the time. The dogs just were adamant about the rabbits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I just ran into another guy that was in my group who was actually coming here to work as an organizer on the recall campaign for Darling."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, really? Against Darling, I hope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are we getting our political views in here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he made this washing machine, you know, which is really I mean, it was a good thing, but you know, they didn't have a water supply. And he went back last year and he went into the villages and said, I was here so many years ago, and he says, oh, were you the guy with the washing machine?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.684868067403656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, really? Against Darling, I hope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are we getting our political views in here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he made this washing machine, you know, which is really I mean, it was a good thing, but you know, they didn't have a water supply. And he went back last year and he went into the villages and said, I was here so many years ago, and he says, oh, were you the guy with the washing machine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it seems like these funny things, these are these failures actually have more impact. Yeah. Ok, so let's see where were we. Ok, let's start with your initial entry into the country and your reaction and describe your project."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.53874229711517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are we getting our political views in here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he made this washing machine, you know, which is really I mean, it was a good thing, but you know, they didn't have a water supply. And he went back last year and he went into the villages and said, I was here so many years ago, and he says, oh, were you the guy with the washing machine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it seems like these funny things, these are these failures actually have more impact. Yeah. Ok, so let's see where were we. Ok, let's start with your initial entry into the country and your reaction and describe your project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a wonderful family that I stayed with. And in fact, it became a family that I had maintained a long-term relationship with, and only recently has that fallen apart. Christmas cards, they came here to visit. My wife and I went back to visit them. So that long-term relationship was created just by that month stay and then I was supposed to. And then when we came back to the city for different meetings, people made different arrangements, but my Brazilian mother insisted that I stay there. Rather emphatic about it, so it was a. That was just a good idea, and that was one of the best things that came out of my experience in Brazil, was this wonderful family that I really felt a part of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the physical environment? Is it different than you expected or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.580311381062595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's no respect whatsoever, you know. Yeah, I experienced that with the Americans. Flew into, never talked to me. Didn't want to talk to me, didn't want to. Oh, OK. I don't know why they were there, I think they were looking at the mine probably. Very rude ministers to American missionaries. Not anxious to deal with anything there. But the in-house transition. You just had to make it on your own. There was no way to introduce you to a village, especially a village where everybody is watching you. I think I made some good political decisions about where I was going to live. Not totally aware of it, but moving to a much cheaper environment, pension to the hotel, the hotel quote-unquote, and moving away from the small little Protestant sect that was there in the village to living in a much more Catholic environment, although I'm Protestant. It seemed to just being a cheaper place was a better move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you were still in the city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, well, this is a city of three thousand people. So it's not a, I mean, didn't have any big roads. And it didn't have. It had electricity, some electricity at night. Had running water, but basically stuff came down from the mountains nearby, so the water was sort of funneled into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was your base and then you went to the villages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we went out to the different, other different settlements, I think would be the term. And some of the school the schools of the city were built by the Alliance for, Alliance for Progress? Kennedy's program. Alliance for Progress, I think. But with Kennedy, a lot of schools were developed at that time. The mayor himself had been in schools out in the interior. A lot of sort of startup stuff too. It was really hard to get started in my town. I didn't have any great opposition, people are very friendly. I didn't feel like there was great barriers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they accepted you socially, pretty much."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.644790423402883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, well, this is a city of three thousand people. So it's not a, I mean, didn't have any big roads. And it didn't have. It had electricity, some electricity at night. Had running water, but basically stuff came down from the mountains nearby, so the water was sort of funneled into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was your base and then you went to the villages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we went out to the different, other different settlements, I think would be the term. And some of the school the schools of the city were built by the Alliance for, Alliance for Progress? Kennedy's program. Alliance for Progress, I think. But with Kennedy, a lot of schools were developed at that time. The mayor himself had been in schools out in the interior. A lot of sort of startup stuff too. It was really hard to get started in my town. I didn't have any great opposition, people are very friendly. I didn't feel like there was great barriers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they accepted you socially, pretty much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I primarily interacted with kids and the kids in the school. Then I got a little crowd, a little high school English, which was certainly drive me. I would never want to be a teacher or couldn't be a teacher. It was very hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the specifics of your job that was assigned, living conditions, typical day, relations to the people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.716433803780982, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we went out to the different, other different settlements, I think would be the term. And some of the school the schools of the city were built by the Alliance for, Alliance for Progress? Kennedy's program. Alliance for Progress, I think. But with Kennedy, a lot of schools were developed at that time. The mayor himself had been in schools out in the interior. A lot of sort of startup stuff too. It was really hard to get started in my town. I didn't have any great opposition, people are very friendly. I didn't feel like there was great barriers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they accepted you socially, pretty much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I primarily interacted with kids and the kids in the school. Then I got a little crowd, a little high school English, which was certainly drive me. I would never want to be a teacher or couldn't be a teacher. It was very hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the specifics of your job that was assigned, living conditions, typical day, relations to the people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, no day had any structure in it whatsoever, so, really. I did not have a structured day, so I had to create everything, yeah. I just had I had to create everything negotiated with going out the Food for Peace. Food would come in by truck. We were working on getting that out to the town. Encouraged me with the principals and the local principals, the two local principals are great ladies and we would work on increasing and improving the quality of the food lunch, the food meal. There was two grade schools and one high school, middle school, really. So we just had the food program in the two grade schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was the food program more than the milk?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.907148670867757, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I primarily interacted with kids and the kids in the school. Then I got a little crowd, a little high school English, which was certainly drive me. I would never want to be a teacher or couldn't be a teacher. It was very hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the specifics of your job that was assigned, living conditions, typical day, relations to the people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, no day had any structure in it whatsoever, so, really. I did not have a structured day, so I had to create everything, yeah. I just had I had to create everything negotiated with going out the Food for Peace. Food would come in by truck. We were working on getting that out to the town. Encouraged me with the principals and the local principals, the two local principals are great ladies and we would work on increasing and improving the quality of the food lunch, the food meal. There was two grade schools and one high school, middle school, really. So we just had the food program in the two grade schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was the food program more than the milk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, they would send other they would send other food sources and they would have some dried soy powder. They had cornmeal that came out. They had a blend of soybean oil and cornmeal, which was better. They would send oil for soups. Some flour, flour also. So there are some variety of foodstuffs, so it wasn't always available, and then we look at work on different recipes for that they would put together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the local agriculture? What did they raise?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.700183544281181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, they would send other they would send other food sources and they would have some dried soy powder. They had cornmeal that came out. They had a blend of soybean oil and cornmeal, which was better. They would send oil for soups. Some flour, flour also. So there are some variety of foodstuffs, so it wasn't always available, and then we look at work on different recipes for that they would put together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the local agriculture? What did they raise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is primarily cattle and rice. They had a big, the city of the center of the city was a rice processor. No, I'm not quite sure what you call it, but a rice mill. And so people would bring up their harvests of rice, that was a big aspect of them. The other, the big farms were cattle raising farms. So the sort of highlands, I'm not sure, I don't know, how they raised rice? But they raised rice. There was some industry there. There was a, in fact, my brother, the brother of the family that I stayed with, had a mica processing a little factory there, so people sat there all day long slicing mica into different grades and separating it in different grades and then shipping it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My brother never came up there to see it. I will never meet, never quite made that visit, but there were some other folks that came that I had met in Goiânia who came up there doing the work, but. So, yeah, it was basically a farm town. You know, they would ship the rice out. You paid for them and what they did with the cattle, I have no idea. I have no idea. I don't know. I don't recall ever seeing them slaughtering the cattle, how they what they did with that, how they got, how do they got any money out of the cattle? I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they eat beef there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.222426160312423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is primarily cattle and rice. They had a big, the city of the center of the city was a rice processor. No, I'm not quite sure what you call it, but a rice mill. And so people would bring up their harvests of rice, that was a big aspect of them. The other, the big farms were cattle raising farms. So the sort of highlands, I'm not sure, I don't know, how they raised rice? But they raised rice. There was some industry there. There was a, in fact, my brother, the brother of the family that I stayed with, had a mica processing a little factory there, so people sat there all day long slicing mica into different grades and separating it in different grades and then shipping it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My brother never came up there to see it. I will never meet, never quite made that visit, but there were some other folks that came that I had met in Goiânia who came up there doing the work, but. So, yeah, it was basically a farm town. You know, they would ship the rice out. You paid for them and what they did with the cattle, I have no idea. I have no idea. I don't know. I don't recall ever seeing them slaughtering the cattle, how they what they did with that, how they got, how do they got any money out of the cattle? I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they eat beef there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, every day. Every day. I had bread and coffee for breakfast and then for lunch, I would have a little piece of meat like a. That's what I would have twice a day. I'd have the bread and then the rice and beans and rice and beans. If somebody was, if somebody else stayed at pension, then sometimes we got something a little more exotic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you cook for yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.358251289236026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My brother never came up there to see it. I will never meet, never quite made that visit, but there were some other folks that came that I had met in Goiânia who came up there doing the work, but. So, yeah, it was basically a farm town. You know, they would ship the rice out. You paid for them and what they did with the cattle, I have no idea. I have no idea. I don't know. I don't recall ever seeing them slaughtering the cattle, how they what they did with that, how they got, how do they got any money out of the cattle? I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they eat beef there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, every day. Every day. I had bread and coffee for breakfast and then for lunch, I would have a little piece of meat like a. That's what I would have twice a day. I'd have the bread and then the rice and beans and rice and beans. If somebody was, if somebody else stayed at pension, then sometimes we got something a little more exotic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you cook for yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I was in a bed and breakfast, well, a rooming house, basically. And, um, the only people that really came and stayed there. I was, I was the main financial support for that, because every once in a Dona Viday would come and say, she'd asked me if she could borrow some money. She was just short because the bus driver stayed there, so I'd see him every other day and then because the bus would come into the village one day and then go out the next and then come back the next day. And the other interesting guy was a guy from Rio de Janeiro who came in and was in charge of malaria eradication. So that was nice to have somebody to talk to there with a broader world view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you really worked on your Portuguese. Is that right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.99581053076669, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was at least a little Protestant sect. And that was that was the guy with a fancy store and the hotel where, you know, people stayed when they came into town. Had a little Protestant church, which I didn't attend. But I did finagle that we could borrow the organ and move it over to this incredibly old slave construct of the village, I was at least three hundred and fifty years old, so it was a really old slave type gold mining town. And so they had this church that had been abandoned by the priest as soon as his mother died. One of these guys have made a vow to his mother that he would be a priest, but when she died, he was gone because he was the English speaker. He taught English in the high school, he ran the high school. So that's what they asked me to teach high school because they had to have an English teacher, so I tried. Uh, that was really unique. There was a gorgeous old hand-carved, wood carved Catholic Church and have. So we got to play the play the organ for weddings over there. I used to. I didn't know anything about playing bass, so I just played the same notes at two different levels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was for Catholic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was for Catholic wedding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did the same thing when we went to the big city, like once a month, I stayed at a. It was, I guess, a monastery or some Catholic. You know, there were brothers from Italy there and there were some. There's an American air base in the city and they came to the Catholic Church for service. But none of the guys there spoke English. So my father is a minister, so I just get out there and conducted the Catholic services and in return."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And translated everything into English?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, in return for room and board."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.106456145296322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was for Catholic wedding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did the same thing when we went to the big city, like once a month, I stayed at a. It was, I guess, a monastery or some Catholic. You know, there were brothers from Italy there and there were some. There's an American air base in the city and they came to the Catholic Church for service. But none of the guys there spoke English. So my father is a minister, so I just get out there and conducted the Catholic services and in return."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And translated everything into English?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, in return for room and board."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Makes do, crosses barriers. What was it? What was the original question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, I don't know about, uh, I guess, your relationships with people of the country and living conditions, typical day."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.118284605884803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And translated everything into English?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, in return for room and board."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Makes do, crosses barriers. What was it? What was the original question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, I don't know about, uh, I guess, your relationships with people of the country and living conditions, typical day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the typical day. Well, there really, there really wasn't much of it, some planning and some hanging out, visiting them and waiting for the car to be fixed. But we would go out, we would do a lot of deliveries because it was like a month, every month we'd have all the different things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a schedule?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.798094006538671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Makes do, crosses barriers. What was it? What was the original question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, I don't know about, uh, I guess, your relationships with people of the country and living conditions, typical day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the typical day. Well, there really, there really wasn't much of it, some planning and some hanging out, visiting them and waiting for the car to be fixed. But we would go out, we would do a lot of deliveries because it was like a month, every month we'd have all the different things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a schedule?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a regular, pretty regular schedule to go out to these. I think there were, we probably had six different sites in the sticks. Some were overnight because it was such a far. And those were incredible adventures in and of themselves because there are no roads. There were no roads, and in the rainy season the bus would come in and I would go for a week or two weeks. The bus couldn't get through because bridges were out. The bus was the only connection to the exterior and we would go out into these places and get on barges and go across river on barges and go up these crevasses where you thought the Jeep was going to turn upside down. The road you'd have to go down and go through water because the whatever, whatever that was washed out, there's huge crevices of wash outs all the time, the road system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well were you prohibited from driving yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.553437785042967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the typical day. Well, there really, there really wasn't much of it, some planning and some hanging out, visiting them and waiting for the car to be fixed. But we would go out, we would do a lot of deliveries because it was like a month, every month we'd have all the different things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a schedule?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a regular, pretty regular schedule to go out to these. I think there were, we probably had six different sites in the sticks. Some were overnight because it was such a far. And those were incredible adventures in and of themselves because there are no roads. There were no roads, and in the rainy season the bus would come in and I would go for a week or two weeks. The bus couldn't get through because bridges were out. The bus was the only connection to the exterior and we would go out into these places and get on barges and go across river on barges and go up these crevasses where you thought the Jeep was going to turn upside down. The road you'd have to go down and go through water because the whatever, whatever that was washed out, there's huge crevices of wash outs all the time, the road system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well were you prohibited from driving yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just, I couldn't drive stick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So some of the other people in your group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.39270865004774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a regular, pretty regular schedule to go out to these. I think there were, we probably had six different sites in the sticks. Some were overnight because it was such a far. And those were incredible adventures in and of themselves because there are no roads. There were no roads, and in the rainy season the bus would come in and I would go for a week or two weeks. The bus couldn't get through because bridges were out. The bus was the only connection to the exterior and we would go out into these places and get on barges and go across river on barges and go up these crevasses where you thought the Jeep was going to turn upside down. The road you'd have to go down and go through water because the whatever, whatever that was washed out, there's huge crevices of wash outs all the time, the road system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well were you prohibited from driving yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just, I couldn't drive stick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So some of the other people in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This one guy was hired as a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, some of them did their own."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.325231833386379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just, I couldn't drive stick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So some of the other people in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This one guy was hired as a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, some of them did their own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a feeling I just got a Jeep because of where I was, because of the rural, very rural nature where I was. Other places had paved streets and sidewalks. And those people would come into our meetings when we'd have our gathering meetings in the capital. I mean, they'd have bandages on their arms, they'd have all these diseases and illnesses, and I never got sick at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were probably in the remotest part."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.139146481540422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This one guy was hired as a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, some of them did their own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a feeling I just got a Jeep because of where I was, because of the rural, very rural nature where I was. Other places had paved streets and sidewalks. And those people would come into our meetings when we'd have our gathering meetings in the capital. I mean, they'd have bandages on their arms, they'd have all these diseases and illnesses, and I never got sick at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were probably in the remotest part."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, by far. One of the Peace Corps volunteers came to visit me once, took the bus all the way up. They did refer to my place as fim do mundo, which is the end of the world. And that was just a general assumption. So I was the pension had no ceilings in it so that you could hear from room to room. So I woke up after Sarah got there. She was in her room. And she says, Steve, I can't see. Whatever happened is there she had bites all over her eyes. So she was, her eyes had swollen shut, she couldn't see. She was tough, but nobody came to visit me after that, after Sarah's trip. And I had to take her to the next town where there was a doctor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she got it in your town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.932384979489357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a feeling I just got a Jeep because of where I was, because of the rural, very rural nature where I was. Other places had paved streets and sidewalks. And those people would come into our meetings when we'd have our gathering meetings in the capital. I mean, they'd have bandages on their arms, they'd have all these diseases and illnesses, and I never got sick at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were probably in the remotest part."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, by far. One of the Peace Corps volunteers came to visit me once, took the bus all the way up. They did refer to my place as fim do mundo, which is the end of the world. And that was just a general assumption. So I was the pension had no ceilings in it so that you could hear from room to room. So I woke up after Sarah got there. She was in her room. And she says, Steve, I can't see. Whatever happened is there she had bites all over her eyes. So she was, her eyes had swollen shut, she couldn't see. She was tough, but nobody came to visit me after that, after Sarah's trip. And I had to take her to the next town where there was a doctor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she got it in your town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Overnight, yeah, whatever attacked or attacked her. So the next day we had to pay to have somebody drive us over by Jeep, to the hospital, to the nearest town, which was 90 miles away, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what about your relationship with the PC staff and other PCVs and then maybe going to work time versus leisure time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.793067875912786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Overnight, yeah, whatever attacked or attacked her. So the next day we had to pay to have somebody drive us over by Jeep, to the hospital, to the nearest town, which was 90 miles away, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what about your relationship with the PC staff and other PCVs and then maybe going to work time versus leisure time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, since there were no other PCVs at my town, so there was no issues there. I think the director came to visit me once and it was quite fluid. Whether I'm fantasizing that or not, I'm not sure. So we really, we had a great, we were a good cohesive group. I think it's a very caring group, a sense of supporting each other. There wasn't a lot of, there was very little conflict. Everybody wanted to tell stories about their own place. It's fascinating. For me, it was fascinating to see some of these women who may not have been the prettiest women in the world who just sort of blossomed as females in the Brazilian culture. That was really one of the interesting things that I saw with these women. They just sort of suddenly their bodies were so appreciated that they just sort of blossomed as women. Men didn't blossom in particular. There were some that had problems. One woman had all sorts of diseases when we first got there, got illnesses and finally they shipped her home. It could have been pretty, pretty psychosomatic, I think really bubbly young woman. Husband and wife got a divorce while they were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While they were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they separated while they were there, I guess, and all. But otherwise, there were some very close friendships that developed over at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you like go to the big city once a month or something like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.547853195458653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, since there were no other PCVs at my town, so there was no issues there. I think the director came to visit me once and it was quite fluid. Whether I'm fantasizing that or not, I'm not sure. So we really, we had a great, we were a good cohesive group. I think it's a very caring group, a sense of supporting each other. There wasn't a lot of, there was very little conflict. Everybody wanted to tell stories about their own place. It's fascinating. For me, it was fascinating to see some of these women who may not have been the prettiest women in the world who just sort of blossomed as females in the Brazilian culture. That was really one of the interesting things that I saw with these women. They just sort of suddenly their bodies were so appreciated that they just sort of blossomed as women. Men didn't blossom in particular. There were some that had problems. One woman had all sorts of diseases when we first got there, got illnesses and finally they shipped her home. It could have been pretty, pretty psychosomatic, I think really bubbly young woman. Husband and wife got a divorce while they were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While they were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they separated while they were there, I guess, and all. But otherwise, there were some very close friendships that developed over at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you like go to the big city once a month or something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't feel compelled to do that. I just came in when we were supposed to come in. I couldn't think of a good excuse to go. Plus, for me, it was an eight-hour bus ride and overnight in one town, the next bus ride, the three hour bus ride to the capital city. So it is a two day trip and a long, long bus ride. And that was discouraging. I would be happier in my own little bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what about work time versus leisure time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.386503550509614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they separated while they were there, I guess, and all. But otherwise, there were some very close friendships that developed over at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you like go to the big city once a month or something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't feel compelled to do that. I just came in when we were supposed to come in. I couldn't think of a good excuse to go. Plus, for me, it was an eight-hour bus ride and overnight in one town, the next bus ride, the three hour bus ride to the capital city. So it is a two day trip and a long, long bus ride. And that was discouraging. I would be happier in my own little bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what about work time versus leisure time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I thought I was always working in reality when you were representing your country. I was always working. I didn't have a lot of leisure time. I organized, bought and organized the volleyball. So we had, we played volleyball for the youth group, the young people. We had volleyball every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you introduced volleyball, pretty much."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.318337278344016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't feel compelled to do that. I just came in when we were supposed to come in. I couldn't think of a good excuse to go. Plus, for me, it was an eight-hour bus ride and overnight in one town, the next bus ride, the three hour bus ride to the capital city. So it is a two day trip and a long, long bus ride. And that was discouraging. I would be happier in my own little bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what about work time versus leisure time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I thought I was always working in reality when you were representing your country. I was always working. I didn't have a lot of leisure time. I organized, bought and organized the volleyball. So we had, we played volleyball for the youth group, the young people. We had volleyball every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you introduced volleyball, pretty much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn't say introduce. I facilitated it and made it possible to get the nets and the ball and brought that back with me. So that, or maybe we had the net and I just had to get the ball, I don't know. I made it possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Turkey, all of the guys used to hang around in the coffee shop and gamble all day, so I figured, you know, get them outside, get them some fresh air and, you know, get them doing something physical. So I actually did get them to get out and play volleyball, and they started gambling on the volleyball games. So what are you gonna do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.242596975937795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I thought I was always working in reality when you were representing your country. I was always working. I didn't have a lot of leisure time. I organized, bought and organized the volleyball. So we had, we played volleyball for the youth group, the young people. We had volleyball every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you introduced volleyball, pretty much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn't say introduce. I facilitated it and made it possible to get the nets and the ball and brought that back with me. So that, or maybe we had the net and I just had to get the ball, I don't know. I made it possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Turkey, all of the guys used to hang around in the coffee shop and gamble all day, so I figured, you know, get them outside, get them some fresh air and, you know, get them doing something physical. So I actually did get them to get out and play volleyball, and they started gambling on the volleyball games. So what are you gonna do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can take the Turk out of the coffee shop, but not... But I guess I never thought there was a leisure time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. So you were pretty much on full time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.269552195486439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn't say introduce. I facilitated it and made it possible to get the nets and the ball and brought that back with me. So that, or maybe we had the net and I just had to get the ball, I don't know. I made it possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Turkey, all of the guys used to hang around in the coffee shop and gamble all day, so I figured, you know, get them outside, get them some fresh air and, you know, get them doing something physical. So I actually did get them to get out and play volleyball, and they started gambling on the volleyball games. So what are you gonna do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can take the Turk out of the coffee shop, but not... But I guess I never thought there was a leisure time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. So you were pretty much on full time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really appreciated the, especially during the rainy season, the rainy season, but there was nothing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have that book locker?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.410613550540488, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can take the Turk out of the coffee shop, but not... But I guess I never thought there was a leisure time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. So you were pretty much on full time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really appreciated the, especially during the rainy season, the rainy season, but there was nothing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have that book locker?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just going to refer to the book locker. You know, the book locker was a life saver during the rainy season. When it rained, there was just nothing happened, and I always thought, people think that people in the tropics are just lazy. But I think I learned with the rainy season. You just you can't do anything, and it has nothing against, you know, motivation or how enthusiastic you are. It was just, you know, mud up to your knees now. Awful things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you think life and work changed over the months? And then you can reflect on maybe the end of your first year, you know, things, how you thought things went the first year, you know, what were your joys and woes? Health problems, vacation, travel."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.56734838948943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really appreciated the, especially during the rainy season, the rainy season, but there was nothing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have that book locker?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just going to refer to the book locker. You know, the book locker was a life saver during the rainy season. When it rained, there was just nothing happened, and I always thought, people think that people in the tropics are just lazy. But I think I learned with the rainy season. You just you can't do anything, and it has nothing against, you know, motivation or how enthusiastic you are. It was just, you know, mud up to your knees now. Awful things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you think life and work changed over the months? And then you can reflect on maybe the end of your first year, you know, things, how you thought things went the first year, you know, what were your joys and woes? Health problems, vacation, travel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think anything. I have no sense of how things changed over a two-year period, so if you can get more integrated into the community, have more context, develop some public trust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got along well with your driver?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.74149821054381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just going to refer to the book locker. You know, the book locker was a life saver during the rainy season. When it rained, there was just nothing happened, and I always thought, people think that people in the tropics are just lazy. But I think I learned with the rainy season. You just you can't do anything, and it has nothing against, you know, motivation or how enthusiastic you are. It was just, you know, mud up to your knees now. Awful things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you think life and work changed over the months? And then you can reflect on maybe the end of your first year, you know, things, how you thought things went the first year, you know, what were your joys and woes? Health problems, vacation, travel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think anything. I have no sense of how things changed over a two-year period, so if you can get more integrated into the community, have more context, develop some public trust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got along well with your driver?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, well, the money, which was a mistake. I learned that. I learned a few things about life in the future, do not loan money, do not. But I was a naive 22-year-old. I finally got along pretty well. I don't think. We had a great parties, festivals in the town, so great square dancing. It's a little participate in all that stuff. But it was a very isolated town, so they did a lot of, there's just a lot of things that they did together as a group of people. I was sort of careful about who I allied myself with politically because there were factions at the top, obviously. Good relationships with everybody. Much more relationships with the kids in town because those were the right ones to influence I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with any women at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.046109122826454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think anything. I have no sense of how things changed over a two-year period, so if you can get more integrated into the community, have more context, develop some public trust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got along well with your driver?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, well, the money, which was a mistake. I learned that. I learned a few things about life in the future, do not loan money, do not. But I was a naive 22-year-old. I finally got along pretty well. I don't think. We had a great parties, festivals in the town, so great square dancing. It's a little participate in all that stuff. But it was a very isolated town, so they did a lot of, there's just a lot of things that they did together as a group of people. I was sort of careful about who I allied myself with politically because there were factions at the top, obviously. Good relationships with everybody. Much more relationships with the kids in town because those were the right ones to influence I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with any women at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. But that's that could be a disaster. I was living with three women at the time. Dona Viday, her widowed daughter and her, another widowed daughter and another daughter. Four women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the pension?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.495676803140505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, well, the money, which was a mistake. I learned that. I learned a few things about life in the future, do not loan money, do not. But I was a naive 22-year-old. I finally got along pretty well. I don't think. We had a great parties, festivals in the town, so great square dancing. It's a little participate in all that stuff. But it was a very isolated town, so they did a lot of, there's just a lot of things that they did together as a group of people. I was sort of careful about who I allied myself with politically because there were factions at the top, obviously. Good relationships with everybody. Much more relationships with the kids in town because those were the right ones to influence I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with any women at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. But that's that could be a disaster. I was living with three women at the time. Dona Viday, her widowed daughter and her, another widowed daughter and another daughter. Four women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the pension?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pension, yeah. That was enough, I'm sure, the information about me was all over town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. What about vacation and travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.884085336822782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. But that's that could be a disaster. I was living with three women at the time. Dona Viday, her widowed daughter and her, another widowed daughter and another daughter. Four women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the pension?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pension, yeah. That was enough, I'm sure, the information about me was all over town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. What about vacation and travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. The guy in the next town, town next to me. Took off for two, what'd you get, two weeks or so. Took a bus trip from Brasilia, which was near to both of us, from Brasilia all the way up to the Amazon. So we took a great bus trip. It's a long bus trip, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed right within Brazil?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.315650374247536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pension, yeah. That was enough, I'm sure, the information about me was all over town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. What about vacation and travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. The guy in the next town, town next to me. Took off for two, what'd you get, two weeks or so. Took a bus trip from Brasilia, which was near to both of us, from Brasilia all the way up to the Amazon. So we took a great bus trip. It's a long bus trip, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed right within Brazil?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, most of the time I stayed in Brazil. I went to Carnival one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there more vacation than two weeks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 11.461833749163928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. The guy in the next town, town next to me. Took off for two, what'd you get, two weeks or so. Took a bus trip from Brasilia, which was near to both of us, from Brasilia all the way up to the Amazon. So we took a great bus trip. It's a long bus trip, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed right within Brazil?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, most of the time I stayed in Brazil. I went to Carnival one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there more vacation than two weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, I think we had four weeks. I went to Carnival for very wet, wet Carnival. It was fabulous, to say the least. And then I, one year I flew up to, uh, I flew to Venezuela and met my future wife in Aruba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just happened to meet her there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8464819435154745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, most of the time I stayed in Brazil. I went to Carnival one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there more vacation than two weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, I think we had four weeks. I went to Carnival for very wet, wet Carnival. It was fabulous, to say the least. And then I, one year I flew up to, uh, I flew to Venezuela and met my future wife in Aruba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just happened to meet her there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She just happened to tell me that where we were meeting, the arrangements. That created problems because I was having problems getting out of the country, when we got to leave because I changed my status as far as visas and things. That was a point where I didn't think I was going to leave. Somebody fixed something somewhere, so. We got to leave the country. And then a group of us traveled back through the rest of South America and went down to Buenos Aires, and then flew to Lima and Cusco. I went to Machu Picchu. And then took a train from, we went to La Paz. From La Paz we took a train across Lake Titicaca to Peru and Peru to Machu Picchu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any illnesses at all? Not really, it sounds like."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.273868826128305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, I think we had four weeks. I went to Carnival for very wet, wet Carnival. It was fabulous, to say the least. And then I, one year I flew up to, uh, I flew to Venezuela and met my future wife in Aruba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just happened to meet her there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She just happened to tell me that where we were meeting, the arrangements. That created problems because I was having problems getting out of the country, when we got to leave because I changed my status as far as visas and things. That was a point where I didn't think I was going to leave. Somebody fixed something somewhere, so. We got to leave the country. And then a group of us traveled back through the rest of South America and went down to Buenos Aires, and then flew to Lima and Cusco. I went to Machu Picchu. And then took a train from, we went to La Paz. From La Paz we took a train across Lake Titicaca to Peru and Peru to Machu Picchu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any illnesses at all? Not really, it sounds like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, the only thing when I came back. When I came back, they you know, they do the stool samples, and I had a parasite and a tapeworm. Which was pretty easy to resolve with good medical care. Tapeworm was just sort of medical like ether balls I took. The parasite gets a medication and that was it. I didn't have any other issues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now that was at the end?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.276381266825068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, the only thing when I came back. When I came back, they you know, they do the stool samples, and I had a parasite and a tapeworm. Which was pretty easy to resolve with good medical care. Tapeworm was just sort of medical like ether balls I took. The parasite gets a medication and that was it. I didn't have any other issues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now that was at the end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was determined at the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ether balls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Huge pills like this one like marbles. And you took about eight or 10 of them. And I thought they were like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They tasted like ether?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.862645852027852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was determined at the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ether balls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Huge pills like this one like marbles. And you took about eight or 10 of them. And I thought they were like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They tasted like ether?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They smelled like it I thought. Burp and put myself to sleep. But I think they just sort of relaxed the whole system and the tapeworm would just be excreted. So the good news, it was good, quick medical care when I got back. I wasn't in any dire need. I wasn't feeling sick. Yeah, I lost some weight, which was sort of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did I."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.514050946697614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Huge pills like this one like marbles. And you took about eight or 10 of them. And I thought they were like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They tasted like ether?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They smelled like it I thought. Burp and put myself to sleep. But I think they just sort of relaxed the whole system and the tapeworm would just be excreted. So the good news, it was good, quick medical care when I got back. I wasn't in any dire need. I wasn't feeling sick. Yeah, I lost some weight, which was sort of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did I."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not bad. I could use a tapeworm. I thought that would be that could be a pretty easy diet program for people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what about at the end of your tour? What was your sense of achievement, failure or pluses and minuses in your relations and work with the people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.23783438521957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They smelled like it I thought. Burp and put myself to sleep. But I think they just sort of relaxed the whole system and the tapeworm would just be excreted. So the good news, it was good, quick medical care when I got back. I wasn't in any dire need. I wasn't feeling sick. Yeah, I lost some weight, which was sort of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did I."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not bad. I could use a tapeworm. I thought that would be that could be a pretty easy diet program for people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what about at the end of your tour? What was your sense of achievement, failure or pluses and minuses in your relations and work with the people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How much impact I had on the school lunch program? I think it was just the fact that there was somebody from outside come in, whether it was me or somebody else outside coming, really got the mayor to do that. He thought that was a good political thing to do. Therefore, he promoted that. How much influence I had on that, I have no idea. I didn't. I really didn't feel like I had accomplished a lot. The contribution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably a lot of just getting to know the people."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.930927094688411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not bad. I could use a tapeworm. I thought that would be that could be a pretty easy diet program for people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what about at the end of your tour? What was your sense of achievement, failure or pluses and minuses in your relations and work with the people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How much impact I had on the school lunch program? I think it was just the fact that there was somebody from outside come in, whether it was me or somebody else outside coming, really got the mayor to do that. He thought that was a good political thing to do. Therefore, he promoted that. How much influence I had on that, I have no idea. I didn't. I really didn't feel like I had accomplished a lot. The contribution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably a lot of just getting to know the people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I thought that was going to have been back. They thought I was dead. I ran into some people from the village, about three years after I got back from the Peace Corps, after I got married and moved to Brazil. They all thought, the rumor was I died at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've been back, have you been back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.478807882987124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How much impact I had on the school lunch program? I think it was just the fact that there was somebody from outside come in, whether it was me or somebody else outside coming, really got the mayor to do that. He thought that was a good political thing to do. Therefore, he promoted that. How much influence I had on that, I have no idea. I didn't. I really didn't feel like I had accomplished a lot. The contribution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably a lot of just getting to know the people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I thought that was going to have been back. They thought I was dead. I ran into some people from the village, about three years after I got back from the Peace Corps, after I got married and moved to Brazil. They all thought, the rumor was I died at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've been back, have you been back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been back. I've seen people from the village. I have not been back to the village. My goals for. You know, there's not any travel into Brazil. You know, I didn't want to take a five-day chunk of time. And I was working. Just go to my town, which would take the eight-hour bus. They've got roads up there now, and I think transportation is better because they've reopened the reopened the mine. There's a huge. The village I was in was called Niquelândia, which was nickel land, obviously, and it was a huge mine during the war where it was doing nickel, copper, something else, it was all mixed in. Sort of an expensive ore to break down that's neither categories, but it had value. So they reopen the mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was the mica mine in the same place."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.0875643144301375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I thought that was going to have been back. They thought I was dead. I ran into some people from the village, about three years after I got back from the Peace Corps, after I got married and moved to Brazil. They all thought, the rumor was I died at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've been back, have you been back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been back. I've seen people from the village. I have not been back to the village. My goals for. You know, there's not any travel into Brazil. You know, I didn't want to take a five-day chunk of time. And I was working. Just go to my town, which would take the eight-hour bus. They've got roads up there now, and I think transportation is better because they've reopened the reopened the mine. There's a huge. The village I was in was called Niquelândia, which was nickel land, obviously, and it was a huge mine during the war where it was doing nickel, copper, something else, it was all mixed in. Sort of an expensive ore to break down that's neither categories, but it had value. So they reopen the mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was the mica mine in the same place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't. I have no idea. I don't know if that's not. I went down in a mica, I went down in the holes where they were like rope seat being dropped down into where they were digging the mica out. That was pretty interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did the same thing in Turkey where they mined the meerschaum, you know, they use it for the pipes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.763960349366819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been back. I've seen people from the village. I have not been back to the village. My goals for. You know, there's not any travel into Brazil. You know, I didn't want to take a five-day chunk of time. And I was working. Just go to my town, which would take the eight-hour bus. They've got roads up there now, and I think transportation is better because they've reopened the reopened the mine. There's a huge. The village I was in was called Niquelândia, which was nickel land, obviously, and it was a huge mine during the war where it was doing nickel, copper, something else, it was all mixed in. Sort of an expensive ore to break down that's neither categories, but it had value. So they reopen the mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was the mica mine in the same place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't. I have no idea. I don't know if that's not. I went down in a mica, I went down in the holes where they were like rope seat being dropped down into where they were digging the mica out. That was pretty interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did the same thing in Turkey where they mined the meerschaum, you know, they use it for the pipes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they have to go down on the ground."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.404400388185354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't. I have no idea. I don't know if that's not. I went down in a mica, I went down in the holes where they were like rope seat being dropped down into where they were digging the mica out. That was pretty interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did the same thing in Turkey where they mined the meerschaum, you know, they use it for the pipes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they have to go down on the ground."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cappadocia, were you in the Cappadocia area?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I wasn't there, but I went to the area where they have the meerschaum. They even, one guy carved, this was, you know, back in the mid '60s and Ali was at his prime. And one guy actually carved a statue of Ali and said, welcome, w-e-l-l-c-o-m-e, welcome to Turkey, you know they were riding the crest there. But yeah, it's evolved."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.11600043131706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they have to go down on the ground."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cappadocia, were you in the Cappadocia area?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I wasn't there, but I went to the area where they have the meerschaum. They even, one guy carved, this was, you know, back in the mid '60s and Ali was at his prime. And one guy actually carved a statue of Ali and said, welcome, w-e-l-l-c-o-m-e, welcome to Turkey, you know they were riding the crest there. But yeah, it's evolved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I don't feel badly about it, they didn't send a volunteer in after me. And I don't know why. I think it was, I think it was too far out, really, and it was just too isolated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do they have other programs like yours coming in after you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.906667145907845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cappadocia, were you in the Cappadocia area?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I wasn't there, but I went to the area where they have the meerschaum. They even, one guy carved, this was, you know, back in the mid '60s and Ali was at his prime. And one guy actually carved a statue of Ali and said, welcome, w-e-l-l-c-o-m-e, welcome to Turkey, you know they were riding the crest there. But yeah, it's evolved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I don't feel badly about it, they didn't send a volunteer in after me. And I don't know why. I think it was, I think it was too far out, really, and it was just too isolated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do they have other programs like yours coming in after you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was it. I would imagine that the escolar continued, I would imagine the Food for Peace continued for quite a while and maybe it was evolved enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you get along pretty well with the mayor then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.785185717675382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I don't feel badly about it, they didn't send a volunteer in after me. And I don't know why. I think it was, I think it was too far out, really, and it was just too isolated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do they have other programs like yours coming in after you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was it. I would imagine that the escolar continued, I would imagine the Food for Peace continued for quite a while and maybe it was evolved enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you get along pretty well with the mayor then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. He was pleasant to me, I was pleasant to him. we weren't bosom buddies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was one other guy that was assigned to him?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.761317464083758, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was it. I would imagine that the escolar continued, I would imagine the Food for Peace continued for quite a while and maybe it was evolved enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you get along pretty well with the mayor then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. He was pleasant to me, I was pleasant to him. we weren't bosom buddies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was one other guy that was assigned to him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe it was a guy that I worked with, so he kept his eye on me. I kept his eye on him. He was a really hard worker and it was great. I didn't have to push him very hard to get him out and going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now we're going to try to evaluate your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.845908293426398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. He was pleasant to me, I was pleasant to him. we weren't bosom buddies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was one other guy that was assigned to him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe it was a guy that I worked with, so he kept his eye on me. I kept his eye on him. He was a really hard worker and it was great. I didn't have to push him very hard to get him out and going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now we're going to try to evaluate your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What are those three goals?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first one is, I got some notes here. The first one is to provide technical assistance where requested. How do you feel you did in that area?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.051009214918219, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe it was a guy that I worked with, so he kept his eye on me. I kept his eye on him. He was a really hard worker and it was great. I didn't have to push him very hard to get him out and going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now we're going to try to evaluate your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What are those three goals?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first one is, I got some notes here. The first one is to provide technical assistance where requested. How do you feel you did in that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I did help as far as getting expanding the milk program and pushing that expectation and sort of just by being there in a sense of monitoring their use of the Food for Peace stuff, so that was used appropriately and the kids are getting the right meals. I think just the presence of being there did that, achieved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you think that was taken over by somebody else?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.39001023879802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What are those three goals?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first one is, I got some notes here. The first one is to provide technical assistance where requested. How do you feel you did in that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I did help as far as getting expanding the milk program and pushing that expectation and sort of just by being there in a sense of monitoring their use of the Food for Peace stuff, so that was used appropriately and the kids are getting the right meals. I think just the presence of being there did that, achieved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you think that was taken over by somebody else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think they did continue it. You know, this was a real cutback and they had cooks at the two grade schools in the city. That was what they did, made those hot meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. And the second goal is to promote better understanding of the United States. How do you how do you feel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.877789154220022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I did help as far as getting expanding the milk program and pushing that expectation and sort of just by being there in a sense of monitoring their use of the Food for Peace stuff, so that was used appropriately and the kids are getting the right meals. I think just the presence of being there did that, achieved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you think that was taken over by somebody else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think they did continue it. You know, this was a real cutback and they had cooks at the two grade schools in the city. That was what they did, made those hot meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. And the second goal is to promote better understanding of the United States. How do you how do you feel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I don't know. What were you in Turkey for?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "'65 to '67."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.975321282466691, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think they did continue it. You know, this was a real cutback and they had cooks at the two grade schools in the city. That was what they did, made those hot meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. And the second goal is to promote better understanding of the United States. How do you how do you feel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I don't know. What were you in Turkey for?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "'65 to '67."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was there for '66 to '68. There were strange things happening in the United States in those years, that was the King assassination, and it was the Kennedy assassination. There was a lot of racial stuff going on. There was a lot of explaining that was, there was a lot of conversation around, you know, the Vietnam War. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the issue of the racial issue was big in Brazil."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.19480142496299, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I don't know. What were you in Turkey for?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "'65 to '67."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was there for '66 to '68. There were strange things happening in the United States in those years, that was the King assassination, and it was the Kennedy assassination. There was a lot of racial stuff going on. There was a lot of explaining that was, there was a lot of conversation around, you know, the Vietnam War. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the issue of the racial issue was big in Brazil."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Brazil, yeah, because Brazil is a big country. The ratio of gradations are pretty significant. And it's sort of big middle melting pot that's sort of a lovely tan color. Then there was white folks, there is very clear white folks of the upper class and the lower class in Brazil, of course, was the black folks. This was a community that had a lot of slavery, a history of slavery in it. They had a slave church that was filled with voodoo and all sorts of underlying mysticism at the time. Which was really strange because I was attacked by all the upper-class ladies in conversations about the racism in the United States. Aren't you a terrible country? Wow, you guys are just as racist, you just don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You guys are just as bad."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.438668249958877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was there for '66 to '68. There were strange things happening in the United States in those years, that was the King assassination, and it was the Kennedy assassination. There was a lot of racial stuff going on. There was a lot of explaining that was, there was a lot of conversation around, you know, the Vietnam War. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the issue of the racial issue was big in Brazil."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Brazil, yeah, because Brazil is a big country. The ratio of gradations are pretty significant. And it's sort of big middle melting pot that's sort of a lovely tan color. Then there was white folks, there is very clear white folks of the upper class and the lower class in Brazil, of course, was the black folks. This was a community that had a lot of slavery, a history of slavery in it. They had a slave church that was filled with voodoo and all sorts of underlying mysticism at the time. Which was really strange because I was attacked by all the upper-class ladies in conversations about the racism in the United States. Aren't you a terrible country? Wow, you guys are just as racist, you just don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You guys are just as bad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don't quite see it in the same way. There's this whole middle group of tan folks. So, yeah, I thought it was a it was good to have somebody to interpret that. I ran into a lot of oh my god. The thing that I was not prepared and surprised me was a lot of drunk, uh, veterans of World War II who fought with the Americans in Italy. Brazil sent a contingent there. It must have been a big contingent because I ran into a bunch of drunks, guys are serious drinking problems and pretty, still, post- traumatic stress or syndromes, but talking about that and the whole affiliation with the Americans in Italy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did how did that go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.598520277732085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Brazil, yeah, because Brazil is a big country. The ratio of gradations are pretty significant. And it's sort of big middle melting pot that's sort of a lovely tan color. Then there was white folks, there is very clear white folks of the upper class and the lower class in Brazil, of course, was the black folks. This was a community that had a lot of slavery, a history of slavery in it. They had a slave church that was filled with voodoo and all sorts of underlying mysticism at the time. Which was really strange because I was attacked by all the upper-class ladies in conversations about the racism in the United States. Aren't you a terrible country? Wow, you guys are just as racist, you just don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You guys are just as bad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don't quite see it in the same way. There's this whole middle group of tan folks. So, yeah, I thought it was a it was good to have somebody to interpret that. I ran into a lot of oh my god. The thing that I was not prepared and surprised me was a lot of drunk, uh, veterans of World War II who fought with the Americans in Italy. Brazil sent a contingent there. It must have been a big contingent because I ran into a bunch of drunks, guys are serious drinking problems and pretty, still, post- traumatic stress or syndromes, but talking about that and the whole affiliation with the Americans in Italy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did how did that go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. They were all positive. Oh, but they were, you know, my buddy type routine. Hard to deal with because they were pretty screwed up. Yeah, they're really screwed up, but that war really, really, it was a World War II. So this is, what, it is 20 years later now, easily 20 years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the third goal is to promote better understanding of other peoples by Americans."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 12.887244753035649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don't quite see it in the same way. There's this whole middle group of tan folks. So, yeah, I thought it was a it was good to have somebody to interpret that. I ran into a lot of oh my god. The thing that I was not prepared and surprised me was a lot of drunk, uh, veterans of World War II who fought with the Americans in Italy. Brazil sent a contingent there. It must have been a big contingent because I ran into a bunch of drunks, guys are serious drinking problems and pretty, still, post- traumatic stress or syndromes, but talking about that and the whole affiliation with the Americans in Italy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did how did that go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. They were all positive. Oh, but they were, you know, my buddy type routine. Hard to deal with because they were pretty screwed up. Yeah, they're really screwed up, but that war really, really, it was a World War II. So this is, what, it is 20 years later now, easily 20 years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the third goal is to promote better understanding of other peoples by Americans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very true. I think it changed my life. Not as far as an openness to other people, but it just. Brazil got under my skin as far as a pace and a pattern of living and a way of enjoying life and each other. I may not have changed them, but they certainly changed my pace of life. It was very interesting, and I knew it and I felt it all my life, but that was a sort of, a life pace changing thing. And I'm glad. It doesn't make me a type A but maybe move me to a type A minus or something. Sort of a type A personality. Very different, but I'm glad. I'm glad I did it. Certainly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through the years, have you continued any kind of involvement with your country of service or contact with the people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.652494170039611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. They were all positive. Oh, but they were, you know, my buddy type routine. Hard to deal with because they were pretty screwed up. Yeah, they're really screwed up, but that war really, really, it was a World War II. So this is, what, it is 20 years later now, easily 20 years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the third goal is to promote better understanding of other peoples by Americans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very true. I think it changed my life. Not as far as an openness to other people, but it just. Brazil got under my skin as far as a pace and a pattern of living and a way of enjoying life and each other. I may not have changed them, but they certainly changed my pace of life. It was very interesting, and I knew it and I felt it all my life, but that was a sort of, a life pace changing thing. And I'm glad. It doesn't make me a type A but maybe move me to a type A minus or something. Sort of a type A personality. Very different, but I'm glad. I'm glad I did it. Certainly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through the years, have you continued any kind of involvement with your country of service or contact with the people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, by country of service, the country I was in, Brazil? Yeah, we've had visitors from the International Institute here with a preference for Brazilians through their State Department contracts. I think we've had three different Brazilian visitors here for dinner, for overnight, whatever the case may be. And we've also, that opened this up to a whole range of other visitors from other countries we've hosted over the years. Just had an opportunity this weekend to have some Iraqis, but I was gone all week so I didn't have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that still through the institute?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.3916601889329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very true. I think it changed my life. Not as far as an openness to other people, but it just. Brazil got under my skin as far as a pace and a pattern of living and a way of enjoying life and each other. I may not have changed them, but they certainly changed my pace of life. It was very interesting, and I knew it and I felt it all my life, but that was a sort of, a life pace changing thing. And I'm glad. It doesn't make me a type A but maybe move me to a type A minus or something. Sort of a type A personality. Very different, but I'm glad. I'm glad I did it. Certainly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through the years, have you continued any kind of involvement with your country of service or contact with the people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, by country of service, the country I was in, Brazil? Yeah, we've had visitors from the International Institute here with a preference for Brazilians through their State Department contracts. I think we've had three different Brazilian visitors here for dinner, for overnight, whatever the case may be. And we've also, that opened this up to a whole range of other visitors from other countries we've hosted over the years. Just had an opportunity this weekend to have some Iraqis, but I was gone all week so I didn't have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that still through the institute?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the international Institute is still doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is Derek still there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.212955765481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, by country of service, the country I was in, Brazil? Yeah, we've had visitors from the International Institute here with a preference for Brazilians through their State Department contracts. I think we've had three different Brazilian visitors here for dinner, for overnight, whatever the case may be. And we've also, that opened this up to a whole range of other visitors from other countries we've hosted over the years. Just had an opportunity this weekend to have some Iraqis, but I was gone all week so I didn't have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that still through the institute?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the international Institute is still doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is Derek still there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, and so proud that he's the longest serving executive director after my boss. So pleased to continue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because when I was a recruiter for the Peace Corps here in Milwaukee, I was stationed at the International Institute, and that was when I was on an island. He was quite a character."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.12550640609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the international Institute is still doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is Derek still there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, and so proud that he's the longest serving executive director after my boss. So pleased to continue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because when I was a recruiter for the Peace Corps here in Milwaukee, I was stationed at the International Institute, and that was when I was on an island. He was quite a character."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So our tape now is going get in trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I think it said you can delete certain things."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.9172293401000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, and so proud that he's the longest serving executive director after my boss. So pleased to continue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because when I was a recruiter for the Peace Corps here in Milwaukee, I was stationed at the International Institute, and that was when I was on an island. He was quite a character."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So our tape now is going get in trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I think it said you can delete certain things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be one that I prefer to delete. He's been here and the daughter came up to Indiana University and attended school there, so she was with us for Thanksgiving and Christmas, his older daughter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you knew her from there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.796921489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So our tape now is going get in trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I think it said you can delete certain things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be one that I prefer to delete. He's been here and the daughter came up to Indiana University and attended school there, so she was with us for Thanksgiving and Christmas, his older daughter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you knew her from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just met her in Goiânia when we came to stay. And then she, after I did that, then she came back to the States to get an advanced degree. Uh, her parents came up, so we got to entertain them with the other two daughters. Just a wonderful relationship that has somehow disappeared through the ages. Communication breakdown. Never trust the Brazilian mail, and I haven't been able to find an email address for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had any continuing Peace Corps involvement at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.77435721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be one that I prefer to delete. He's been here and the daughter came up to Indiana University and attended school there, so she was with us for Thanksgiving and Christmas, his older daughter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you knew her from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just met her in Goiânia when we came to stay. And then she, after I did that, then she came back to the States to get an advanced degree. Uh, her parents came up, so we got to entertain them with the other two daughters. Just a wonderful relationship that has somehow disappeared through the ages. Communication breakdown. Never trust the Brazilian mail, and I haven't been able to find an email address for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had any continuing Peace Corps involvement at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you kept up with any people in your group at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.8603969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just met her in Goiânia when we came to stay. And then she, after I did that, then she came back to the States to get an advanced degree. Uh, her parents came up, so we got to entertain them with the other two daughters. Just a wonderful relationship that has somehow disappeared through the ages. Communication breakdown. Never trust the Brazilian mail, and I haven't been able to find an email address for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had any continuing Peace Corps involvement at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you kept up with any people in your group at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I have written to them and I ever got any responses out of the director, so I was out of the directory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's kind of unusual. Have you been involved in any third goal activities like trying to, you know, giving slideshows or telling people about your experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.400441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you kept up with any people in your group at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I have written to them and I ever got any responses out of the director, so I was out of the directory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's kind of unusual. Have you been involved in any third goal activities like trying to, you know, giving slideshows or telling people about your experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bored people with my two years in Brazil? I've certainly done that. I've done that. I've certainly fostered Brazilian things. There's a group out in Waukesha who are supporting an orphanage in Rio de Janiero or Sao Paolo. So they have a Carnival event every year, which I attend. You know, I've met other Brazilians here, and we got involved with a number of Brazilians who were who lived in Milwaukee who taught at UWM and others who are married to, connected friends. We have other friends here who have lived in Brazil, traveled there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've had some contact with the returned Peace Corps volunteer who will be having to or have."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.00049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I have written to them and I ever got any responses out of the director, so I was out of the directory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's kind of unusual. Have you been involved in any third goal activities like trying to, you know, giving slideshows or telling people about your experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bored people with my two years in Brazil? I've certainly done that. I've done that. I've certainly fostered Brazilian things. There's a group out in Waukesha who are supporting an orphanage in Rio de Janiero or Sao Paolo. So they have a Carnival event every year, which I attend. You know, I've met other Brazilians here, and we got involved with a number of Brazilians who were who lived in Milwaukee who taught at UWM and others who are married to, connected friends. We have other friends here who have lived in Brazil, traveled there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've had some contact with the returned Peace Corps volunteer who will be having to or have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I haven't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, are you open to that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 5.5561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bored people with my two years in Brazil? I've certainly done that. I've done that. I've certainly fostered Brazilian things. There's a group out in Waukesha who are supporting an orphanage in Rio de Janiero or Sao Paolo. So they have a Carnival event every year, which I attend. You know, I've met other Brazilians here, and we got involved with a number of Brazilians who were who lived in Milwaukee who taught at UWM and others who are married to, connected friends. We have other friends here who have lived in Brazil, traveled there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've had some contact with the returned Peace Corps volunteer who will be having to or have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I haven't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, are you open to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. I'd like to be involved in that. Yeah, I've done it. I did it once. I went to a party at the Urban Ecology Center for a kickoff for the new volunteers and their families were there and some people who had just returned were there to talk. I should say there's a history of us all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, do you have any like words of wisdom to anybody who might be listening to this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I haven't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, are you open to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. I'd like to be involved in that. Yeah, I've done it. I did it once. I went to a party at the Urban Ecology Center for a kickoff for the new volunteers and their families were there and some people who had just returned were there to talk. I should say there's a history of us all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, do you have any like words of wisdom to anybody who might be listening to this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I guess my only thing would be. I came back and I tried to weigh the Peace Corps experience in my life trajectory. Uh, well, one of the unique things that I experienced was I came back from the Peace Corps and eight months later, I was in the Army, so I refer to those as my war and peace years. So I spent two years in the Army after coming back from the Peace Corps. So I after graduation I was out of circulation for four years, five years. It was a little hard to get back engaged, you know, earning a living. So for some extent in comparison to my contemporaries where they were sort of off on their jobs, I was going nowhere. So it took a while to get really engaged, but I think over a long view, it was worth it. They gave me things that I couldn't have got anywhere else, the sort of personal understanding, personal values, a way of looking at the world. Nothing is more interesting than looking at your country through Third World eyes. We don't quite look as lovely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's for sure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. I'd like to be involved in that. Yeah, I've done it. I did it once. I went to a party at the Urban Ecology Center for a kickoff for the new volunteers and their families were there and some people who had just returned were there to talk. I should say there's a history of us all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, do you have any like words of wisdom to anybody who might be listening to this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I guess my only thing would be. I came back and I tried to weigh the Peace Corps experience in my life trajectory. Uh, well, one of the unique things that I experienced was I came back from the Peace Corps and eight months later, I was in the Army, so I refer to those as my war and peace years. So I spent two years in the Army after coming back from the Peace Corps. So I after graduation I was out of circulation for four years, five years. It was a little hard to get back engaged, you know, earning a living. So for some extent in comparison to my contemporaries where they were sort of off on their jobs, I was going nowhere. So it took a while to get really engaged, but I think over a long view, it was worth it. They gave me things that I couldn't have got anywhere else, the sort of personal understanding, personal values, a way of looking at the world. Nothing is more interesting than looking at your country through Third World eyes. We don't quite look as lovely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was really interesting to learn that to learn at 22. It was a good time to learn that, you know, how what you're doing impacts on the world and how people in other parts of the world live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like as an example, most of the Turks that that the Johnson bumped off Kennedy because that's how they would have done it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I guess my only thing would be. I came back and I tried to weigh the Peace Corps experience in my life trajectory. Uh, well, one of the unique things that I experienced was I came back from the Peace Corps and eight months later, I was in the Army, so I refer to those as my war and peace years. So I spent two years in the Army after coming back from the Peace Corps. So I after graduation I was out of circulation for four years, five years. It was a little hard to get back engaged, you know, earning a living. So for some extent in comparison to my contemporaries where they were sort of off on their jobs, I was going nowhere. So it took a while to get really engaged, but I think over a long view, it was worth it. They gave me things that I couldn't have got anywhere else, the sort of personal understanding, personal values, a way of looking at the world. Nothing is more interesting than looking at your country through Third World eyes. We don't quite look as lovely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was really interesting to learn that to learn at 22. It was a good time to learn that, you know, how what you're doing impacts on the world and how people in other parts of the world live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like as an example, most of the Turks that that the Johnson bumped off Kennedy because that's how they would have done it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's how they would do it. A good conspiracy theory. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then, of course, like Sargent Shriver was our director at the time. And, you know, we tried to, you know, tell them that he was Kennedy's brother-in-law, you know, to try to help out. I don't think that did much good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was really interesting to learn that to learn at 22. It was a good time to learn that, you know, how what you're doing impacts on the world and how people in other parts of the world live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like as an example, most of the Turks that that the Johnson bumped off Kennedy because that's how they would have done it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's how they would do it. A good conspiracy theory. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then, of course, like Sargent Shriver was our director at the time. And, you know, we tried to, you know, tell them that he was Kennedy's brother-in-law, you know, to try to help out. I don't think that did much good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kennedy was such a star."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he was. And over in Turkey, you know, like every hotel or bar you're going to, there's a picture of Ataturk. But then during the Kennedy administration, he was right under Ataturk. I mean, he was far more loved there than he was here."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00262:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's how they would do it. A good conspiracy theory. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then, of course, like Sargent Shriver was our director at the time. And, you know, we tried to, you know, tell them that he was Kennedy's brother-in-law, you know, to try to help out. I don't think that did much good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kennedy was such a star."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he was. And over in Turkey, you know, like every hotel or bar you're going to, there's a picture of Ataturk. But then during the Kennedy administration, he was right under Ataturk. I mean, he was far more loved there than he was here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. I would guess Obama's in the same place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Ok, here's your last chance."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.531244422908276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a group of people I had never met before. And I didn’t meet any of the other 180 who were interviewed. The only ones that I met were the ones in my little group of twenty. We spent a week going from briefing to briefing, from dinner to dinner, and medical evaluations, brief psychological exams, and individual interviews with the Astronaut Selection Committee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you learn that you were selected to be a candidate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a phone call from George W. S. Abbey very, very early in the morning California time. He was probably going through his list, making calls to those selected at, oh, seven-thirty or eight in the morning, Houston time. I was awakened by the phone call, and when I heard George Abbey on the phone, I though it was probably good news. He would have delegated the bad-news phone calls to someone else on the selection committee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it took me a while to wake up! I thought maybe I was dreaming. [Laughter] But, of course, I was thrilled. My biggest frustration was that it was five or six in the morning in California, so all my friends and family were asleep. I wasn’t sure that I should wake them up to give them the news!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, was this good timing for you in your career plan?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 19.479160469898083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a phone call from George W. S. Abbey very, very early in the morning California time. He was probably going through his list, making calls to those selected at, oh, seven-thirty or eight in the morning, Houston time. I was awakened by the phone call, and when I heard George Abbey on the phone, I though it was probably good news. He would have delegated the bad-news phone calls to someone else on the selection committee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it took me a while to wake up! I thought maybe I was dreaming. [Laughter] But, of course, I was thrilled. My biggest frustration was that it was five or six in the morning in California, so all my friends and family were asleep. I wasn’t sure that I should wake them up to give them the news!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, was this good timing for you in your career plan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was almost perfect timing for me. And as I remember, it was January of 1978 when were told we’d been selected. The thirty-five of us in the new class of astronauts were all told to report to Houston in July. My Ph.D. thesis was scheduled for late June, so it was almost perfect timing. I literally defended my Ph.D. thesis, got in the car, and drove to Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When NASA announced the new class that included six female astronauts, which was totally different from anything they had done before, how did [the] response of the media and other organizations, especially some of the feminist organizations, impact your life? And did the impact start before you actually went down to JSC?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 22.305337607101954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did an excellent job, yes. My students graduated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speak a little bit more, if you would, please, about what type of training that you had to go through as being support crew for STS-2 and for 3. What does that involve?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The job description is to be at the beck and call of the crew. The STS-2 and STS-3 crews made the assignments for the support crew, deciding what they needed from the different members of the support crew. I spent a lot of my time before STS-2 working on the plan for Earth observations and also on the detailed procedures for the tests of the robot arm. STS-2 was the first flight to carry the arm, so I spent a lot of time with the crew, helping to train them, helping to develop their procedures, and just helping to determine what tests they were going to conduct.\\n\\n The support crew also made up the group of CapComs [Capsule Communicators] for STS-2 and STS-3. I was an on-orbit CapCom for both STS-2 and STS-3. That meant that during their training cycle, I was in mission control whenever they were doing their on-orbit simulations. Jim [James F.] Buchli and I were the two on-orbit CapComs for that flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, this new assignment as being the CapCom featured a female voice for the first time. Did you receive much feedback about that position as well, or was this—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really very much. I don’t think that drew much attention outside of NASA, outside of mission control, and it didn’t draw any attention in mission control after the first couple of sims [simulations]. And since we did hundreds of simulations, it was old news very, very quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to step back for a second, on STS-1 you had a different assignment. You were part of the chase crew. Can you tell us what your assignment was?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.89547852728636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really very much. I don’t think that drew much attention outside of NASA, outside of mission control, and it didn’t draw any attention in mission control after the first couple of sims [simulations]. And since we did hundreds of simulations, it was old news very, very quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to step back for a second, on STS-1 you had a different assignment. You were part of the chase crew. Can you tell us what your assignment was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody was part of the chase crew on STS-1! [Laughter] Yes, I was with Dick [Francis R.] Scobee. He and I were paired in a T-38, chasing at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida]. If STS-1 had come back to land at the Cape on RTLS [Return to Launch Site], we would have been one of the chase planes following them in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what an exciting time for all of the crews, to be able to be there for STS-1."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you at the Cape when it launched?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.99497614142929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody was part of the chase crew on STS-1! [Laughter] Yes, I was with Dick [Francis R.] Scobee. He and I were paired in a T-38, chasing at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida]. If STS-1 had come back to land at the Cape on RTLS [Return to Launch Site], we would have been one of the chase planes following them in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what an exciting time for all of the crews, to be able to be there for STS-1."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you at the Cape when it launched?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your own chance to be named to a crew with STS-7. When and how did you learn that you were selected for that first Shuttle trip?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.77219571269921, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you at the Cape when it launched?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your own chance to be named to a crew with STS-7. When and how did you learn that you were selected for that first Shuttle trip?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shortly before one of the regular Astronaut Office Monday morning meetings, I got called to come over to George Abbey’s office. It was 7:30 or 7:45 in the morning. I went over to his office and he told me then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, this was the beginning of another first for you. You were going to be the first American woman to fly. Describe for us the reaction to the news when you told your family that, once again, you were going to be making the news."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.635773014110235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your own chance to be named to a crew with STS-7. When and how did you learn that you were selected for that first Shuttle trip?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shortly before one of the regular Astronaut Office Monday morning meetings, I got called to come over to George Abbey’s office. It was 7:30 or 7:45 in the morning. I went over to his office and he told me then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, this was the beginning of another first for you. You were going to be the first American woman to fly. Describe for us the reaction to the news when you told your family that, once again, you were going to be making the news."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] Well, they were pretty excited. They knew that this was something that I’d wanted to do for a long time. After all, I’d been in training for four years when I heard the news, so they’d been preparing for this eventuality for four years. They were really excited when I got assigned to a flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Mr. Abbey talked to you about your new assignment, that you were going to be flying, was there talk of the impact that it would [have on] you and NASA, that you were taking a step into history?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.006449357174382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, the simulators did a really good job of simulating the robot arm. It was a little easier to use the arm in space than it was in the simulators, because I could look out the window and see a real arm. And although the visuals in the simulators are very good, there’s nothing quite like being able to look out the window and see the real thing. It felt very comfortable and familiar. The simulators had prepared me very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as you mentioned, you deployed satellites. Again, you were not in practice anymore, you were actually being successfully productive and meeting those goals."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The act of releasing a satellite and then backing the arm away felt very much like it did in the simulators. But the act of going up and capturing a satellite was a little more scary. I remember thinking, “Oh, my gosh. This is real metal that will hit real metal if I miss. What if we don’t capture this satellite? It was easy in the simulators, but is it going to be as easy in orbit?” It turned out that it was, but the experience was different because it was real. In orbit, it really mattered that I captured the satellite. In the simulators it’s not that important. If you miss, it’s just a virtual arm going through a virtual payload, and no harm’s done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you returned, did you have any new suggestions or recommendations on how the operations worked, that you could give back to the trainers to enhance the arm’s movement for the next crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we made a few small recommendations, but I don’t think that we made any major recommendations. Basically, we said that the procedures worked quite well and that the arm responded very much like the simulators suggested that it would, both during release and in capture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The mission was responsible for the agency’s first full photo of the Orbiter in space."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.00716595241598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The act of releasing a satellite and then backing the arm away felt very much like it did in the simulators. But the act of going up and capturing a satellite was a little more scary. I remember thinking, “Oh, my gosh. This is real metal that will hit real metal if I miss. What if we don’t capture this satellite? It was easy in the simulators, but is it going to be as easy in orbit?” It turned out that it was, but the experience was different because it was real. In orbit, it really mattered that I captured the satellite. In the simulators it’s not that important. If you miss, it’s just a virtual arm going through a virtual payload, and no harm’s done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you returned, did you have any new suggestions or recommendations on how the operations worked, that you could give back to the trainers to enhance the arm’s movement for the next crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we made a few small recommendations, but I don’t think that we made any major recommendations. Basically, we said that the procedures worked quite well and that the arm responded very much like the simulators suggested that it would, both during release and in capture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The mission was responsible for the agency’s first full photo of the Orbiter in space."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still show that slide."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you if you’d share your thoughts about the accomplishment of your mission that has left such a lasting image for everyone."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.007962169351089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we made a few small recommendations, but I don’t think that we made any major recommendations. Basically, we said that the procedures worked quite well and that the arm responded very much like the simulators suggested that it would, both during release and in capture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The mission was responsible for the agency’s first full photo of the Orbiter in space."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still show that slide."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you if you’d share your thoughts about the accomplishment of your mission that has left such a lasting image for everyone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We spent a lot of time taking that picture. It was almost an afterthought that NASA decided to put a camera on board that satellite. There was a video camera whose output we could view inside the cockpit of the Shuttle; as a result, we could almost center the picture and make sure that the whole Orbiter was in the frame of the picture. We actually spent much more time than we should have, much to mission control’s surprise, putting the arm in the shape of a “7” before we took the picture so that everybody would know it was STS-7 that took it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve talked about how the technical aspects during your mission met your expectations. How did your body respond once you got to microgravity? Was it what you thought it was going to be, and did you respond as well as you had hoped?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.008846854834543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still show that slide."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you if you’d share your thoughts about the accomplishment of your mission that has left such a lasting image for everyone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We spent a lot of time taking that picture. It was almost an afterthought that NASA decided to put a camera on board that satellite. There was a video camera whose output we could view inside the cockpit of the Shuttle; as a result, we could almost center the picture and make sure that the whole Orbiter was in the frame of the picture. We actually spent much more time than we should have, much to mission control’s surprise, putting the arm in the shape of a “7” before we took the picture so that everybody would know it was STS-7 that took it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve talked about how the technical aspects during your mission met your expectations. How did your body respond once you got to microgravity? Was it what you thought it was going to be, and did you respond as well as you had hoped?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I didn’t really know what to expect, because there isn’t a way to train for being weightless. It’s so far removed from a person’s everyday experience, that even hearing other astronauts describe it didn’t give me a clue how to prepare for it. What I discovered was that although it took an hour or so to get used to moving around, I adapted to it pretty quickly. I loved it. I really enjoyed being weightless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to use some of the training that you used with Joe Engle and Dick Truly about Earth obs? Did you have an opportunity to do that as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.120940949816159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We spent a lot of time taking that picture. It was almost an afterthought that NASA decided to put a camera on board that satellite. There was a video camera whose output we could view inside the cockpit of the Shuttle; as a result, we could almost center the picture and make sure that the whole Orbiter was in the frame of the picture. We actually spent much more time than we should have, much to mission control’s surprise, putting the arm in the shape of a “7” before we took the picture so that everybody would know it was STS-7 that took it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve talked about how the technical aspects during your mission met your expectations. How did your body respond once you got to microgravity? Was it what you thought it was going to be, and did you respond as well as you had hoped?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I didn’t really know what to expect, because there isn’t a way to train for being weightless. It’s so far removed from a person’s everyday experience, that even hearing other astronauts describe it didn’t give me a clue how to prepare for it. What I discovered was that although it took an hour or so to get used to moving around, I adapted to it pretty quickly. I loved it. I really enjoyed being weightless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to use some of the training that you used with Joe Engle and Dick Truly about Earth obs? Did you have an opportunity to do that as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We spent quite a bit of time plotting our Earth observations strategy. I don’t think I was the best photographer on the crew, but I had a great time looking out the window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking back to Earth, one of the people that you talked to was CapCom Mary [L.] Cleave, [the] first time that we had a woman talking to a woman. Did that even cross your mind that you two were visiting?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.245489944240177, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I didn’t really know what to expect, because there isn’t a way to train for being weightless. It’s so far removed from a person’s everyday experience, that even hearing other astronauts describe it didn’t give me a clue how to prepare for it. What I discovered was that although it took an hour or so to get used to moving around, I adapted to it pretty quickly. I loved it. I really enjoyed being weightless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to use some of the training that you used with Joe Engle and Dick Truly about Earth obs? Did you have an opportunity to do that as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We spent quite a bit of time plotting our Earth observations strategy. I don’t think I was the best photographer on the crew, but I had a great time looking out the window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking back to Earth, one of the people that you talked to was CapCom Mary [L.] Cleave, [the] first time that we had a woman talking to a woman. Did that even cross your mind that you two were visiting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know something? It did not cross my mind. I don’t know whether it occurred to Mary either. I didn’t even think about it until after I landed and somebody pointed it out to me. And apparently the first time we talked we said something totally unmemorable. [Laughter] I don’t know what is was, but it was not particularly historic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just astronaut to astronaut. Did you encounter any significant challenges on this mission that you remember, or do feel like your training provided you what you needed?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.494988826933529, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We spent quite a bit of time plotting our Earth observations strategy. I don’t think I was the best photographer on the crew, but I had a great time looking out the window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking back to Earth, one of the people that you talked to was CapCom Mary [L.] Cleave, [the] first time that we had a woman talking to a woman. Did that even cross your mind that you two were visiting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know something? It did not cross my mind. I don’t know whether it occurred to Mary either. I didn’t even think about it until after I landed and somebody pointed it out to me. And apparently the first time we talked we said something totally unmemorable. [Laughter] I don’t know what is was, but it was not particularly historic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just astronaut to astronaut. Did you encounter any significant challenges on this mission that you remember, or do feel like your training provided you what you needed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training prepared us very, very well for everything we were going to do. We had a few small problems on the flight—problems with some of the recording instrumentation associated with the satellite we deployed and some of the experiments on that satellite. We spent a fair amount of time trying to work those problems. But that only served to kind of delay the timeline a bit. We didn’t run into really any big surprises during the flight, certainly no obstacles that the training hadn’t prepared us for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Due to bad weather, your plans got changed and you didn’t land at Kennedy [Space Center, Florida]. You landed at Edwards Air Force [California]. How did the crew feel about going to there instead of back home to KSC?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.577636923459378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes and no. A lot of help with fielding the requests. All the requests went through NASA, through the Public Affairs Office and through the Astronaut Office, but very little help in preparing to talk with either the press or to make public appearances. Now, of course, all astronauts learn “on the job” how to give a talk and how to work with the public and with various organizations.\\n\\n I’d done my share of public appearances and speeches before I’d gone into training, so I knew how to talk to the press and I knew how to go and show my slides and give a good speech. But just the sheer volume of it was something that was completely different for me, and people reacted much differently to me after my flight than they did before my flight. Everybody wanted a piece of me after the flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there times that you felt some of the events that you went to or some of the times during the events that people asked questions that were not necessarily NASA-related that got into too much of your personal life and activities, or how your new life was affecting your personal life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Occasionally, but not too much. Most often, people were just interested in the flight, in my experience, in my view of the historical nature of the flight, that sort of thing. Not too much on my personal life. That really wasn’t as much of a problem for me as the sheer volume of things that I had to do. It was just incessant for months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn’t too long after you landed that you were advised that you’d be flying again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank goodness. [Laughter] Back into training, safe again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you learn about this new assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.752929914954864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Occasionally, but not too much. Most often, people were just interested in the flight, in my experience, in my view of the historical nature of the flight, that sort of thing. Not too much on my personal life. That really wasn’t as much of a problem for me as the sheer volume of things that I had to do. It was just incessant for months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn’t too long after you landed that you were advised that you’d be flying again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank goodness. [Laughter] Back into training, safe again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you learn about this new assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually don’t remember the details of how I found out about this second flight assignment. It was George Abbey, again, who told us, but I really don’t remember the details. I think I heard that it was likely to come before we actually met with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn with all the rest of the crew this time or, again, was it a personal advisement to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.058811016616515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank goodness. [Laughter] Back into training, safe again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you learn about this new assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually don’t remember the details of how I found out about this second flight assignment. It was George Abbey, again, who told us, but I really don’t remember the details. I think I heard that it was likely to come before we actually met with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn with all the rest of the crew this time or, again, was it a personal advisement to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It was with the rest of the crew that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was somewhat of a normal situation now."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.398678907351682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually don’t remember the details of how I found out about this second flight assignment. It was George Abbey, again, who told us, but I really don’t remember the details. I think I heard that it was likely to come before we actually met with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn with all the rest of the crew this time or, again, was it a personal advisement to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It was with the rest of the crew that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was somewhat of a normal situation now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back to normalcy. And one great thing was that Kathy [Kathryn D.] Sullivan was on that crew as well. A nice “first,” the first crew with two women on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least she had someone to share the attention with."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.887421008168536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It was with the rest of the crew that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was somewhat of a normal situation now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back to normalcy. And one great thing was that Kathy [Kathryn D.] Sullivan was on that crew as well. A nice “first,” the first crew with two women on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least she had someone to share the attention with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she was going to be doing the EVA [Extravehicular Activity], which was very much a historic moment. The first woman to do one."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.54157889796504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back to normalcy. And one great thing was that Kathy [Kathryn D.] Sullivan was on that crew as well. A nice “first,” the first crew with two women on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least she had someone to share the attention with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she was going to be doing the EVA [Extravehicular Activity], which was very much a historic moment. The first woman to do one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the time that you were training, historian Henry [S. F.] Cooper wrote a book about the STS 41-G mission, and apparently just took the time with you guys as you were doing everything that you were doing. How did this affect your training and what did the crew feel about having almost an extra person there with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.26842099773893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she was going to be doing the EVA [Extravehicular Activity], which was very much a historic moment. The first woman to do one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the time that you were training, historian Henry [S. F.] Cooper wrote a book about the STS 41-G mission, and apparently just took the time with you guys as you were doing everything that you were doing. How did this affect your training and what did the crew feel about having almost an extra person there with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn’t affect the training too much, but it was unusual. It was very different from STS-7. We really didn’t have much connection with the press. We were just a crew in training before STS-7, and before 41-G, it was almost like there was an outsider looking over our shoulder a lot of the time. I don’t think it really affected our training, and I don’t think it affected our cohesiveness as a crew either, but it was different. We just had to be a little bit more careful about what we said and be aware that there was somebody who was watching and taking notes the whole time that we were training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In his book he mentions that Bob Crippen was training for another mission while your crew was training as well, and indicates that you were basically the number two person for this mission, because Crippen had asked for that. Was this something that had been related to you or is this his perception?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.783384981522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a way he did. I knew from the time that I was selected for STS-7 that he had been influential in that decision. He was picked as the commander of the flight, and though he didn’t get to choose his crew, he had some input into it. So I knew he had had an influence on my career even then. He’s very, very smart and a very easy person to get along with, and so it’s easy to look up to him—both in the way he thinks through problems and makes decisions and the way that he interacts with people. I spent a lot of time watching the way he worked, the way he learned things, and the way he worked with other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a veteran of this crew when he wasn’t around, what advice or what type of experiences could you share with your new crew members to help them get through that first experience of flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, mostly we were far enough from flight that the burden on me wasn’t too great. I didn’t have to totally prepare them for spaceflight! So the role that I was playing was really more to talk about some of the basics of being in space—simple things like “Okay, you’ve seen the food trays on the ground, but let me tell you what happens when they get weightless.” Give them some familiarity with the space environment and the way “Crip” liked a crew to function. I didn’t try to cover some of the details “Crip” would get into later. We all knew there was plenty of time for that. He was going to be spending months and months and months with us in training, not just weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was liftoff different for you the second time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, it wasn’t. I had very much the same experience the second time as the first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This time when you were working with the arm, you had a little more challenges with the two satellites that you had. They had the Shuttle Imaging Radar B and the TDRS [Tracking and Data Relay Satellite], and a little frustration. Could you share with us some of the experiences of how you were able to be successful with those?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00493:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.7789378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, that was great fun. That was really, really great fun, watching them emerge from the hatch and then float around outside. I wish I’d been able to enjoy a little more of it. After they headed outside, I was down on the middeck most of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You came home; you had a good landing. Again, because there were two women on this flight, did you encounter again a great deal of press attention when the crew landed, and were you and Kathy both then involved in that as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a fair amount of attention. Not nearly as much as there was after my first flight. Kathy and I got quite a bit of press attention after 41-G, but it was manageable. It really wasn’t nearly as intense as it was after STS-7."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you starting to see the attention on the space agency as a whole start to dwindle at that time, or do you still feel like the press, as a whole, was giving attention to the Shuttle flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time there was still a lot of attention on the Shuttle flights. Forty-one-G was only the thirteenth; there had been something new and exciting on almost every Space Shuttle flight. They were still getting quite a bit of publicity. Shortly after that, Shuttle launches and landings became less newsworthy. You had to really hunt to find them on TV. That started a few flights after 41-G."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we move on from your missions, I’d like to talk to you about the science that’s such an important part of your life at that time, and there were experiments on board. Could you share with us some of the experiments that you worked on these missions and how you were involved in making sure that the experiments were taken care of?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.125020930589972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You did what the commander told you to do. Charlie decided."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Charlie Bolden was the criteria."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Charlie Bolden decided. He said, “Brian, you’re flying the Orbiter on,” whatever shift I was on—I think I was on the blue shift—and he said, “Dave,” Leestma, “you’re flying the Orbiter on the red shift, and you other guys,” Kathy and Dirk and Mike and Byron would work the instruments. We just did what Charlie told us. But it was a logical breakdown. Dave was a good operator and that was what I had done, been an operator in the past."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a couple of payload specialists and a payload commander on that flight. How was the payload specialist-astronaut relationship at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It depended on the individual, on both sides. I thought it went okay. It wasn’t frictionless. It wasn’t friction-free by any means, and there were some times when Charlie had to make sure things were smooth and that feathers weren’t ruffled. But for the most part, I thought it was fine. I never had any particular problem with it and I thought things were okay, but there was the occasional incident or two where people get a little crosswise with each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about the launch for the first time. You mentioned the simulator was really good on your first landing as commander."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 20.13891214509997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Charlie Bolden decided. He said, “Brian, you’re flying the Orbiter on,” whatever shift I was on—I think I was on the blue shift—and he said, “Dave,” Leestma, “you’re flying the Orbiter on the red shift, and you other guys,” Kathy and Dirk and Mike and Byron would work the instruments. We just did what Charlie told us. But it was a logical breakdown. Dave was a good operator and that was what I had done, been an operator in the past."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a couple of payload specialists and a payload commander on that flight. How was the payload specialist-astronaut relationship at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It depended on the individual, on both sides. I thought it went okay. It wasn’t frictionless. It wasn’t friction-free by any means, and there were some times when Charlie had to make sure things were smooth and that feathers weren’t ruffled. But for the most part, I thought it was fine. I never had any particular problem with it and I thought things were okay, but there was the occasional incident or two where people get a little crosswise with each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about the launch for the first time. You mentioned the simulator was really good on your first landing as commander."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The simulations for the launch, did—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.557403056088964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first hour and a half or so you spend turning this rocketship that you rode into the vehicle that you’re—in our case, it was going to be a laboratory that we were going to use to do all of these experiments. So you safely shut down all of the systems that were operating that you’re not going to need until entry. Then you reconfigure the cockpit. You fold up some of the chairs, the mission specialist chairs, they detach from the floor, and you fold them up and you stow them out of the way. You start powering up things that you’re going to need during the mission that weren’t powered during ascent. So it takes a while to do all of that, reconfigure the computers to the on-orbit configuration. It takes a while to do that. I was primary for some of them and backing up on some other tasks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your primary responsibility was making sure that the Orbiter was in the right position."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the mission, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the actual experiments. Did you have any other type of responsibilities with the experiments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there are always little things that you do, but I wasn’t a primary operator of the instrument; I was a helper in ways. I wasn’t the prime, but it was my job to have the Orbiter in the proper attitude at the right time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was a historic flight scientifically because of the first ATLAS, the first Mission to Planet Earth flight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.95267006232107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the mission, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the actual experiments. Did you have any other type of responsibilities with the experiments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there are always little things that you do, but I wasn’t a primary operator of the instrument; I was a helper in ways. I wasn’t the prime, but it was my job to have the Orbiter in the proper attitude at the right time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was a historic flight scientifically because of the first ATLAS, the first Mission to Planet Earth flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any thoughts on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.98318863331972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You haven’t heard George’s talk about it? He says, well, we’re just—you know, people are complaining about us destroying—I think that’s the way he puts it, we’re destroying the Earth. “We’re not destroying the Earth. The Earth’s going to shake us off like a bad case of fleas,” and he might be right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He may be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He might be right. So anyhow, it was a big mission and I was happy to be part of it. I think here now, twelve years later, I think they’re still reducing data from that mission. We collected tons of data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the first of, I think, of eleven-year—was it the sunspot cycle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The solar cycle, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The solar cycle."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.870209592577467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He might be right. So anyhow, it was a big mission and I was happy to be part of it. I think here now, twelve years later, I think they’re still reducing data from that mission. We collected tons of data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the first of, I think, of eleven-year—was it the sunspot cycle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The solar cycle, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The solar cycle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right. The sun cycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine they are still collecting that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.966899547308294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The solar cycle, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The solar cycle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right. The sun cycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine they are still collecting that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they probably are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Shuttle Amateur Radio Experiment."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 23.29655505256477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right. The sun cycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine they are still collecting that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they probably are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Shuttle Amateur Radio Experiment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "SAREX."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to participate in that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.55172783618308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they probably are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Shuttle Amateur Radio Experiment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "SAREX."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to participate in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I got my license before. We had to have two licensed operators onboard, one on each shift, in order to be legal, to be able to use the radio, so Dave Leestma got his and I got mine so we could do that. That was really a lot of fun.\\n\\n That ended up being one of the neater things for me for a couple of reasons. One day was kind of neat. I got patched. We were flying over Australia, and this was all prearranged. We talked to a station on the ground in Australia and they were tied to the amateur radio shack out here at JSC, who patched me to my wife sitting at our kitchen table, so I was flying over Australia in space, talking to Jan in Seabrook, sitting in El Lago there, at our house. She was sitting at our kitchen table talking to me. So that was a neat experience.\\n\\n Then over that week sometime, they had a school contact scheduled and we talked to Ed White [Elementary School, El Lago, Texas], where both my children were going to school at that time, and I found out there that my son got on the radio and I learned that he, in secret, had gotten his amateur radio license, without me knowing about it, so that he was KB5SIY, that’s his call sign, so he completely surprised me with that. And that’s a very technical thing to get and he was in like fourth or fifth grade. Of course, he ended up going to MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, Massachusetts], so I guess that was probably a hint that he was inclined to do that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was an early sign."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.845991544832755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So that was really neat, but SAREX was great. I really enjoyed using it. It helped me really feel connected to normal life down here on the planet, because you can’t see people from up there. You can see cities and highways and things like that, but it looks uninhabited, other than the buildings and things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a reminder that there are people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So it was nice to do that, and to be able to stay in personal contact with my family. That was really special."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of questions did people ask you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Over the radio?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, over the radio."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 17.606657272036394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So it was nice to do that, and to be able to stay in personal contact with my family. That was really special."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of questions did people ask you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Over the radio?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, over the radio."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of times they just want to talk to you just to put you in their log book. Big amateur radio buffs, they keep books on who they’ve talked to and where, and so talking to a spaceship is a big deal to them. So a lot of it is just they say, “Hello,” and then, “Thank you,” and they sign off and they let somebody else get on. They’re a very accommodating community. They’re very professional in the way they deal with you. But sometimes if you have a contact with a school or something, you get the normal kid questions. “What’s it like in space?” and “What does it feel like at liftoff?” and the usual kind of questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You landed at [NASA] Kennedy [Space Center, Florida]. As a pilot, what were your duties during landing? And describe that landing for us, if you will."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.6903784057863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe one or two of them might have been. Those are things they call DSOs, detailed supplementary objectives, or something like that. Those are things we sign up for ahead of time. They’re voluntary and sometimes they only want one or two subjects; they don’t want everybody. Yes, now that you mention it. I’d kind of forgotten that. I think one or two of the crewmembers did do that. It was because they wanted to try to preserve as much as they could, they wanted to be able to observe the recovery to 1-G from zero-G and, of course, even that way is not completely accurate, because even though you might be lying down, you’re still lying down in 1-G, so there’s some gravity things involved. I had forgotten that. There’s probably a lot I’ve forgotten over the years, a lot of the details."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also, before the flight, Charlie Bolden brought in a psychiatrist to conduct psychological profiling of the crewmembers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and the families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the families, so that you would understand how each other operates."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you flew other times without that, do you feel like that really helped?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.544864895318113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and the families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the families, so that you would understand how each other operates."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you flew other times without that, do you feel like that really helped?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was a good thing to do, particularly for a first-time flyer, and it was a little bit of support for my wife as well, so I thought that was good. It’s not a lot different than the way things are done nowadays in different ways. Like this whole Myers-Briggs personality assessment. You know, the whole reason for doing that is to understand your tendencies, the things you’re most likely to do and the way you’re most likely to act, and then understand that other people are wired differently and have other different tendencies.\\n\\n I’ve thought about that, actually, that this Myers-Briggs stuff that we’re doing nowadays in management is not that different than what Charlie had us do back then. It just was called something different, and instead of taking a standardized test, it was done almost individually, one-on-one kind of thing, but the same idea. I thought it was a good idea. If nothing else, it makes people more aware that, hey, people have different needs than you do, they think differently than you do, they have different priorities than you do, they’re going to react differently. So, yes, it was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your biggest challenge as a crew on that flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.66646074579807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to remember. I know one extremely memorable one. We were invited to Belgium at the invitation of the King and Queen of Belgium, and we went on the most royal, wonderful trip to Belgium that I could imagine, where we were just treated like royalty. It was so nice. Well, it was nice for the spouses, too, because they don’t get the rewards that we get when we fly. We get the personal reward of having been there and done it, seen it, and experienced it, and they don’t get that; they get the pain of the launch and the relatives and all of that stuff. My wife doesn’t sleep very well when I’m off the planet, she says. So she needs to be rewarded, too, in some way, and this was a great way to do it. I think it was about eight or nine days over in Belgium that was out of this world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I read that you went along with Charlie Bolden and David Leestma to Hollywood to return an Oscar [Academy Award]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. We flew an Oscar on the flight. We went out—I don’t remember if we carried it with us or if we just went out to present it, but it was really Charlie’s show. It was his deal, and the rest of us just went along for the ride and to enjoy it. But that was fun. We had done a presentation where we actually presented the Oscar on the Academy Awards show from space. We did a crew event with the Oscar there, and that was fun. I’d forgotten about that one, too. I guess I should write all this down. That’s why we’re doing all this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] You’ll have it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s why we’re doing all this. It’s amazing what you forget over time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. It will be written down for you.\\n\\n Did you also take a trip back to your hometown?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.518289717553408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. We flew an Oscar on the flight. We went out—I don’t remember if we carried it with us or if we just went out to present it, but it was really Charlie’s show. It was his deal, and the rest of us just went along for the ride and to enjoy it. But that was fun. We had done a presentation where we actually presented the Oscar on the Academy Awards show from space. We did a crew event with the Oscar there, and that was fun. I’d forgotten about that one, too. I guess I should write all this down. That’s why we’re doing all this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] You’ll have it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s why we’re doing all this. It’s amazing what you forget over time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. It will be written down for you.\\n\\n Did you also take a trip back to your hometown?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. You can only imagine, my town’s pretty much a blue-collar town, where I grew up, outside of Boston, and, first, my being selected in the program was huge and it was a great boost for the school system, because I had gone through the public school system there. So all of a sudden they can say, “Here’s a product of our schools. This is what you can become,” as a motivator for the kids, which I thought was great to be able to do that.\\n\\n But they made a welcome home, a big celebration. They had a parade for me. I rode in this big parade. It was fun. It was a big deal. Then I went down to the football stadium and I addressed the crowd down there, so it was neat. I was happy for the town, because they were so happy, because no other town around there had anything like this ever. So they were feeling pretty good, they were feeling pretty proud. So when you can do that for people, that makes you feel good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you learn about your next assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.75097495994248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. You can only imagine, my town’s pretty much a blue-collar town, where I grew up, outside of Boston, and, first, my being selected in the program was huge and it was a great boost for the school system, because I had gone through the public school system there. So all of a sudden they can say, “Here’s a product of our schools. This is what you can become,” as a motivator for the kids, which I thought was great to be able to do that.\\n\\n But they made a welcome home, a big celebration. They had a parade for me. I rode in this big parade. It was fun. It was a big deal. Then I went down to the football stadium and I addressed the crowd down there, so it was neat. I was happy for the town, because they were so happy, because no other town around there had anything like this ever. So they were feeling pretty good, they were feeling pretty proud. So when you can do that for people, that makes you feel good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you learn about your next assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. My next flight?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The day I went into quarantine for my first flight, actually, and all I could think of at the time was, “Jeez, I sure hope I like this, because I just signed up for two of them.” [Laughs] It turned out I really do, I love it. Particularly the flying part was great.\\n\\n So, going into quarantine, I knew, that day, whatever day it was, back in March of [19]’92, I knew I was going to fly on [STS-] 57, which was great, because I was all pumped up, ready to go. I knew I’d be freshly trained, I’d know everything I needed to know, I’d have the experience from the first flight I could use on my second, which turned out to be real beneficial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you just went right into the training for 57?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.056638844380533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. My next flight?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The day I went into quarantine for my first flight, actually, and all I could think of at the time was, “Jeez, I sure hope I like this, because I just signed up for two of them.” [Laughs] It turned out I really do, I love it. Particularly the flying part was great.\\n\\n So, going into quarantine, I knew, that day, whatever day it was, back in March of [19]’92, I knew I was going to fly on [STS-] 57, which was great, because I was all pumped up, ready to go. I knew I’d be freshly trained, I’d know everything I needed to know, I’d have the experience from the first flight I could use on my second, which turned out to be real beneficial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you just went right into the training for 57?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went down to the Cape as a Cape Crusader for a few months down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe that for us, if you will."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 34.47414663140871, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. Not during that time frame. They’d been down on one launch and they were coming down for the next one, so I don’t think they did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think before we start STS-57, if we go ahead and take a break and let Rebecca change the tape."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you found out about your assignment for STS-57 and you went down and you worked at the Cape for a while and then you came back to begin training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us a little bit about that flight and what the mission was about and what your training entailed."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.94247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They never knew anything. We asked them afterwards, we said, “Hey, did you happen to notice anything?”\\n\\n And they said, “What?” No, they didn’t have a clue. If they’d looked inside at that time, though, they would have seen eight big eyes like, “Whoa! What was that?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Get the hearts racing. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I mean, everyone just stopped, like, “What was that?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not one of the noises you expect to hear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not a normal event. We had some other abnormal things during entry, too, that we can get to eventually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other experiments or anything that you can remember on that flight that you took part in that were memorable?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.1583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I mean, everyone just stopped, like, “What was that?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not one of the noises you expect to hear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not a normal event. We had some other abnormal things during entry, too, that we can get to eventually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other experiments or anything that you can remember on that flight that you took part in that were memorable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some that I liked or some that I—there were some that I really despised. They were like Science Fair projects. We were not happy to be doing them. We thought this is the dumbest thing we’ve ever seen, but we were more or less ordered to do them, so we had to do them. But there were some good ones. We were growing some cancer cells just for research purposes, try to see how cancer cells and tumors would grow in zero-G, and ultimately there could possibly be a market for something like that, where in weightlessness you can grow things in three dimensions. Like take the cancer cells and grow tumors so that you can bring them back and do research on them, try medicines and try techniques and whatever. That’s a pretty painless way to get a tumor as opposed to having to grow one in a human and try things. So there were some neat things that we were doing as well; protein crystal growth kind of experiments for research, again, medical research. The soldering thing I told you about that I was monkeying around with. That was kind of fun. But they were good. But I think their total was over fifty different experiments that we had onboard, so it was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was successful mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 21.287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not a normal event. We had some other abnormal things during entry, too, that we can get to eventually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other experiments or anything that you can remember on that flight that you took part in that were memorable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some that I liked or some that I—there were some that I really despised. They were like Science Fair projects. We were not happy to be doing them. We thought this is the dumbest thing we’ve ever seen, but we were more or less ordered to do them, so we had to do them. But there were some good ones. We were growing some cancer cells just for research purposes, try to see how cancer cells and tumors would grow in zero-G, and ultimately there could possibly be a market for something like that, where in weightlessness you can grow things in three dimensions. Like take the cancer cells and grow tumors so that you can bring them back and do research on them, try medicines and try techniques and whatever. That’s a pretty painless way to get a tumor as opposed to having to grow one in a human and try things. So there were some neat things that we were doing as well; protein crystal growth kind of experiments for research, again, medical research. The soldering thing I told you about that I was monkeying around with. That was kind of fun. But they were good. But I think their total was over fifty different experiments that we had onboard, so it was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was successful mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Across the broad range. Yes, it was successful, very successful. We came close to losing some of them, because the Orbiter Endeavor had a cooling problem on the runway and we came within minutes of having to do some sort of emergency powerdown on the runway, but again, Ron Grabe kind of worked through the problem and worked with the ground very closely and got that all squared away, so we kind of saved the day right at the very end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that at the entry, there were some unusual things on that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did, yes. Yes, and I just ate it up. I loved it. Yes. Looking at the Earth, I never got tired of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do any of the photography?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, of course. Yes, but by that point, you kind of budget your film so that on landing day, you’re done; you use all your film up. Well, we had two more days. We had passed the landing day so we had shot all the film early. So we didn’t even have film to shoot, so we just got to look and just enjoy it. It was really cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else about those first two flights or anything we’ve talked about so far that you’d like to add?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think what I saw, if I could summarize them, what I saw was two different but very effective styles of leadership, with Charlie in the way that he led people and Ron in the way he led his crew. I learned a lot from both of them in different aspects, places where Charlie has his strengths and places where Ron has his strengths, so I felt really lucky to have had those two commanders on my first two flights, because I really learned a lot from them. They’re both very talented in different ways and I extracted from those experiences things that I would use later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You learned as far as—when you became a commander, you took from both of them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00122:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, of course. Yes, but by that point, you kind of budget your film so that on landing day, you’re done; you use all your film up. Well, we had two more days. We had passed the landing day so we had shot all the film early. So we didn’t even have film to shoot, so we just got to look and just enjoy it. It was really cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else about those first two flights or anything we’ve talked about so far that you’d like to add?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think what I saw, if I could summarize them, what I saw was two different but very effective styles of leadership, with Charlie in the way that he led people and Ron in the way he led his crew. I learned a lot from both of them in different aspects, places where Charlie has his strengths and places where Ron has his strengths, so I felt really lucky to have had those two commanders on my first two flights, because I really learned a lot from them. They’re both very talented in different ways and I extracted from those experiences things that I would use later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You learned as far as—when you became a commander, you took from both of them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What to do, what not to do, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you don’t mind, we’ll stop for today and get you out of here in time to go do what you need to do."}]}