[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We arrived in Quito at about midnight on a flight from Miami through Panama. And the next morning, they got us up and we had an in-house doctrination and there were various groups there involved, the ambassador and Peace Corps executives. Then they put us on a bus and we went to Cuenca. So it took a day long bus trip, which was interesting. That is our first introduction to Ecuador and Ecuadorian culture. The funny thing was is that the bus stopped about 100 miles outside of Quito. And everybody get off the bus and took a pee except for the gringos, and they all sat on it for a while, and then the next trip, they were the first ones off the bus to take a pee. But it was, I guess, our first introduction to the culture.

[Assistant] So you are headed towards Cuenca. How many volunteers were on? Because I'm sure they divided up the group to different places in the country.

[User] I want to say about 30 of us ended up in Cuenca.

[Assistant] OK. What were your first impressions of Cuenca?

[User] I liked it. It's a very engaging town.

[Assistant] OK. And once you arrived there did you find an apartment or did they have something set up for you or how did that work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I want to say about 30 of us ended up in Cuenca.

[Assistant] OK. What were your first impressions of Cuenca?

[User] I liked it. It's a very engaging town.

[Assistant] OK. And once you arrived there did you find an apartment or did they have something set up for you or how did that work?

[User] I met this guy named Stan Laser, and he did everything for me. I was supposed to go out and help him do some surveying. He had a spot in the apartment that he was living in that I moved into. So I went from Dave Driscoll, gringo, to Dave Driscoll, Peace Corps volunteer, immediately. There was no waiting for a project or having to develop a project. There was a project underway and Stan broke a lot of ice for me.

[Assistant] And what was your first assignment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I liked it. It's a very engaging town.

[Assistant] OK. And once you arrived there did you find an apartment or did they have something set up for you or how did that work?

[User] I met this guy named Stan Laser, and he did everything for me. I was supposed to go out and help him do some surveying. He had a spot in the apartment that he was living in that I moved into. So I went from Dave Driscoll, gringo, to Dave Driscoll, Peace Corps volunteer, immediately. There was no waiting for a project or having to develop a project. There was a project underway and Stan broke a lot of ice for me.

[Assistant] And what was your first assignment?

[User] First assignment was to go to Cochapata, and we did some surveying. Cochapata was the name of the town that they were building a canal. And we were doing the preliminary layout of the canal. I worked there for about three months. And then the neighboring town wanted to do a canal too. And Stan booted me out of the nest into Nabón. Which was OK. So I had a second project underway immediately, a project to work on, I didn't know if was going to be a project, but did the preliminary engineering on it. And then subsequently worked on several other smaller canals. The canal in Cochapata was about 15 miles long, if my memory serves me correct, and the one at Nabón was about 18 miles long. These were about a meter in cross section, meter square in cross section and.

[Assistant] How were you received by the people in Cochapata and Nabón, the local people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I met this guy named Stan Laser, and he did everything for me. I was supposed to go out and help him do some surveying. He had a spot in the apartment that he was living in that I moved into. So I went from Dave Driscoll, gringo, to Dave Driscoll, Peace Corps volunteer, immediately. There was no waiting for a project or having to develop a project. There was a project underway and Stan broke a lot of ice for me.

[Assistant] And what was your first assignment?

[User] First assignment was to go to Cochapata, and we did some surveying. Cochapata was the name of the town that they were building a canal. And we were doing the preliminary layout of the canal. I worked there for about three months. And then the neighboring town wanted to do a canal too. And Stan booted me out of the nest into Nabón. Which was OK. So I had a second project underway immediately, a project to work on, I didn't know if was going to be a project, but did the preliminary engineering on it. And then subsequently worked on several other smaller canals. The canal in Cochapata was about 15 miles long, if my memory serves me correct, and the one at Nabón was about 18 miles long. These were about a meter in cross section, meter square in cross section and.

[Assistant] How were you received by the people in Cochapata and Nabón, the local people?

[User] Initially with a little suspicion, but eventually very well. Stan again broke a lot of ice. He was out there before I was by. How long were you out there Stan? A year and a half before I got there?

[Assistant] About a year.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] First assignment was to go to Cochapata, and we did some surveying. Cochapata was the name of the town that they were building a canal. And we were doing the preliminary layout of the canal. I worked there for about three months. And then the neighboring town wanted to do a canal too. And Stan booted me out of the nest into Nabón. Which was OK. So I had a second project underway immediately, a project to work on, I didn't know if was going to be a project, but did the preliminary engineering on it. And then subsequently worked on several other smaller canals. The canal in Cochapata was about 15 miles long, if my memory serves me correct, and the one at Nabón was about 18 miles long. These were about a meter in cross section, meter square in cross section and.

[Assistant] How were you received by the people in Cochapata and Nabón, the local people?

[User] Initially with a little suspicion, but eventually very well. Stan again broke a lot of ice. He was out there before I was by. How long were you out there Stan? A year and a half before I got there?

[Assistant] About a year.

[User] So he knew all the ropes.

[Assistant] What was the weather like in your area?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Initially with a little suspicion, but eventually very well. Stan again broke a lot of ice. He was out there before I was by. How long were you out there Stan? A year and a half before I got there?

[Assistant] About a year.

[User] So he knew all the ropes.

[Assistant] What was the weather like in your area?

[User] It was generally sunny, but it was cool. We were high in the Andes. Somewhere between seven and 12,000 feet, depending on where you were and what part of the canal you were working on. It rained a fair amount. What they call the páramo, would be foggy and mist. Misty. So you were damp all of the time, but not necessarily very cold. Not subtropical either, the altitude brought a lot of cold weather with it.

[Assistant] So you spend most of your time doing surveying and working. What was like a typical day in the life of the, uh, as a volunteer there? Or typical days, what did you do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So he knew all the ropes.

[Assistant] What was the weather like in your area?

[User] It was generally sunny, but it was cool. We were high in the Andes. Somewhere between seven and 12,000 feet, depending on where you were and what part of the canal you were working on. It rained a fair amount. What they call the páramo, would be foggy and mist. Misty. So you were damp all of the time, but not necessarily very cold. Not subtropical either, the altitude brought a lot of cold weather with it.

[Assistant] So you spend most of your time doing surveying and working. What was like a typical day in the life of the, uh, as a volunteer there? Or typical days, what did you do?

[User] Well, the first six or eight months I spent laying in the canal out. I'm speaking about Nabón now. Stan had done the majority of the work in the canal at Cochapata. Cochapata canal. And then after that, it was just rounding up the people to go to work voluntarily. I mean, they didn't get paid anything. They had to go out and dig. If they wanted water, right, they had to dig 100 meters of canal. And depending on where we were in the construction phase, you'd either live in town and walk to the job site each day, or you'd be in a tent. And I spent probably half time in the tent when the weather was better.

[Assistant] How about your health? Were you able to stay healthy most of the time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was generally sunny, but it was cool. We were high in the Andes. Somewhere between seven and 12,000 feet, depending on where you were and what part of the canal you were working on. It rained a fair amount. What they call the páramo, would be foggy and mist. Misty. So you were damp all of the time, but not necessarily very cold. Not subtropical either, the altitude brought a lot of cold weather with it.

[Assistant] So you spend most of your time doing surveying and working. What was like a typical day in the life of the, uh, as a volunteer there? Or typical days, what did you do?

[User] Well, the first six or eight months I spent laying in the canal out. I'm speaking about Nabón now. Stan had done the majority of the work in the canal at Cochapata. Cochapata canal. And then after that, it was just rounding up the people to go to work voluntarily. I mean, they didn't get paid anything. They had to go out and dig. If they wanted water, right, they had to dig 100 meters of canal. And depending on where we were in the construction phase, you'd either live in town and walk to the job site each day, or you'd be in a tent. And I spent probably half time in the tent when the weather was better.

[Assistant] How about your health? Were you able to stay healthy most of the time?

[User] Probably the healthiest period of my life. I never had a cold. Had one cold and I had amoebas or worms or something one time, and that was an exciting adventure. But that's not something I recommend to anybody. But by and large, I was very healthy. I mean, living at altitude you adjust to the altitude when you come to a lower elevation. You get a huge red blood count. So we were doing pick and shovel work at 12,000 feet.

[Assistant] What was some of the high points and the low points of your time in Nabón and Cochapata?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the first six or eight months I spent laying in the canal out. I'm speaking about Nabón now. Stan had done the majority of the work in the canal at Cochapata. Cochapata canal. And then after that, it was just rounding up the people to go to work voluntarily. I mean, they didn't get paid anything. They had to go out and dig. If they wanted water, right, they had to dig 100 meters of canal. And depending on where we were in the construction phase, you'd either live in town and walk to the job site each day, or you'd be in a tent. And I spent probably half time in the tent when the weather was better.

[Assistant] How about your health? Were you able to stay healthy most of the time?

[User] Probably the healthiest period of my life. I never had a cold. Had one cold and I had amoebas or worms or something one time, and that was an exciting adventure. But that's not something I recommend to anybody. But by and large, I was very healthy. I mean, living at altitude you adjust to the altitude when you come to a lower elevation. You get a huge red blood count. So we were doing pick and shovel work at 12,000 feet.

[Assistant] What was some of the high points and the low points of your time in Nabón and Cochapata?

[User] Well, certainly the fiestas were an entertaining time. In terms of high points. In terms of the high points was getting the canal laid out, getting construction started on it. That was satisfying.

[Assistant] Do you have any memorable experiences, positive or negative?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably the healthiest period of my life. I never had a cold. Had one cold and I had amoebas or worms or something one time, and that was an exciting adventure. But that's not something I recommend to anybody. But by and large, I was very healthy. I mean, living at altitude you adjust to the altitude when you come to a lower elevation. You get a huge red blood count. So we were doing pick and shovel work at 12,000 feet.

[Assistant] What was some of the high points and the low points of your time in Nabón and Cochapata?

[User] Well, certainly the fiestas were an entertaining time. In terms of high points. In terms of the high points was getting the canal laid out, getting construction started on it. That was satisfying.

[Assistant] Do you have any memorable experiences, positive or negative?

[User] Well, I can remember a negative experience. That was one time mail was brought out to me in the, I was in my upper construction camp at the upper end of the canal. And one of the people, Stan brought mail out to Nabón, my mail out to Nabón, and somebody brought it up to me. I'm up there 12,000 feet in the Andes and you get mail from your sister saying that your dad is quadriplegic from an automobile accident. The letter was, at that time, almost a month old. I didn't know if he was dead or alive. That was off-putting, to say the least. It was late in the afternoon. The following morning I walked out to the Pan-American Highway and hitchhiked a ride into town. Got in touch through a shortwave radio patch to the States. Found out that he was partially paralyzed, but back walking again. That was a great relief. That was probably it, that and losing a roommate to a drowning were the two downsides.

[Assistant] How did that happen?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, certainly the fiestas were an entertaining time. In terms of high points. In terms of the high points was getting the canal laid out, getting construction started on it. That was satisfying.

[Assistant] Do you have any memorable experiences, positive or negative?

[User] Well, I can remember a negative experience. That was one time mail was brought out to me in the, I was in my upper construction camp at the upper end of the canal. And one of the people, Stan brought mail out to Nabón, my mail out to Nabón, and somebody brought it up to me. I'm up there 12,000 feet in the Andes and you get mail from your sister saying that your dad is quadriplegic from an automobile accident. The letter was, at that time, almost a month old. I didn't know if he was dead or alive. That was off-putting, to say the least. It was late in the afternoon. The following morning I walked out to the Pan-American Highway and hitchhiked a ride into town. Got in touch through a shortwave radio patch to the States. Found out that he was partially paralyzed, but back walking again. That was a great relief. That was probably it, that and losing a roommate to a drowning were the two downsides.

[Assistant] How did that happen?

[User] Jim. I won't use his name, but he was an apartment mate. He lived in the apartment we shared in Cuenca. He lived there full time, but he was out servicing a credit co-op in the Oriente, had to cross the rain swollen river and a kid slipped into the rapids. He went after him and drowned. The kid survived. And my obligation was to put Jim's personal effects together and write a letter to his parents and send it off. That was a real downer. Good friend.

[Assistant] How about your experiences with the local people? How did you interact with them? Because you spent a lot of time in close quarters with local people communicating with them in Spanish.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Jim. I won't use his name, but he was an apartment mate. He lived in the apartment we shared in Cuenca. He lived there full time, but he was out servicing a credit co-op in the Oriente, had to cross the rain swollen river and a kid slipped into the rapids. He went after him and drowned. The kid survived. And my obligation was to put Jim's personal effects together and write a letter to his parents and send it off. That was a real downer. Good friend.

[Assistant] How about your experiences with the local people? How did you interact with them? Because you spent a lot of time in close quarters with local people communicating with them in Spanish.

[User] Sometimes communications were a little strange because the people spoke about, half the time they'd speak part Quichua and part Spanish, Quichua with being the indigenous language. So that would get confused every now and again. And my Spanish wasn't that great, frankly. But I could communicate. We got along well. I mean, we personally liked each other. We had a lot of fun together. They had a local beverage called trago that came across the Andes from the Oriente, which is basically cane alcohol. That loosened everybody up.

[Assistant] But were you the only volunteer in Nabón?

[User] I was. I worked basically by myself.

[Assistant] How did you find that? Being on your own and speaking in a different culture.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sometimes communications were a little strange because the people spoke about, half the time they'd speak part Quichua and part Spanish, Quichua with being the indigenous language. So that would get confused every now and again. And my Spanish wasn't that great, frankly. But I could communicate. We got along well. I mean, we personally liked each other. We had a lot of fun together. They had a local beverage called trago that came across the Andes from the Oriente, which is basically cane alcohol. That loosened everybody up.

[Assistant] But were you the only volunteer in Nabón?

[User] I was. I worked basically by myself.

[Assistant] How did you find that? Being on your own and speaking in a different culture.

[User] Well, that was, came with the turf. It was initially a little unsettling, but I quickly overcame that.

[Assistant] Tell me a little more about the main project you worked on. It was a canal and you said you did other little jobs?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was. I worked basically by myself.

[Assistant] How did you find that? Being on your own and speaking in a different culture.

[User] Well, that was, came with the turf. It was initially a little unsettling, but I quickly overcame that.

[Assistant] Tell me a little more about the main project you worked on. It was a canal and you said you did other little jobs?

[User] Did other little canals. They had satellite towns to Nabón, there were other little communities that needed water that weren't on the main canal. They had partially constructed canals that either didn't work or they wanted to add volume to. And I did some engineering in those too. But my primary concern was the one in Nabón.

[Assistant] Were you trained to do to work on irrigation canals? How did you learn to do surveying and to lay out canals?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, that was, came with the turf. It was initially a little unsettling, but I quickly overcame that.

[Assistant] Tell me a little more about the main project you worked on. It was a canal and you said you did other little jobs?

[User] Did other little canals. They had satellite towns to Nabón, there were other little communities that needed water that weren't on the main canal. They had partially constructed canals that either didn't work or they wanted to add volume to. And I did some engineering in those too. But my primary concern was the one in Nabón.

[Assistant] Were you trained to do to work on irrigation canals? How did you learn to do surveying and to lay out canals?

[User] I was a cooperative work student at MIT. I didn't go to MIT at the time, but I was a cooperative work student there and we did some precision leveling when we were studying the settlement of buildings. So I knew how to do precision leveling, but I wasn't certainly a surveyor by any stretch of the imagination, but I knew enough to how to lay out a canal. And proceeded from there. To get a low point in the canal, we had to cross and worked in both directions up and down hill. Try to stay out of the mountains in the winter when the winter weather was there, but it was high. I never saw it snow, but I saw it sleet a couple of times.

[Assistant] Did you have any moments that were scary moments or accidents or things like that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were some idle hours. But it was mostly, when I was out in Nabón, it was mostly work. And I'd come into the city and try to coordinate trips into the city with Stan, into Cuenca once a month to get paid and cleaned up. Personal hygiene was an issue. You're living in a tent with no hot water other than what you heat up in the Coleman stove.

[Assistant] So in the end, with the canal that you worked on in Nabón, did they finish the canal or was the canal working?

[User] It was about 80 percent done and it wasn't completed, but it increased the volume of water that came into town quite a bit by picking up side streams along the way. It was no major river or anything that we had. The last two kilometers were tough going. I don't know if they ever finished it or not, I didn't keep in touch with them.

[Assistant] So after you left, did any other volunteers continue in that area?

[User] Apparently, there was another volunteer who supposedly took my place, but he had some health issues and I lost track of it after that. There's a Peace Corps volunteer in Nabón now, I understand, that I'm going to try to track her down. Nabón has changed quite a bit from when I was there. When I was there, it was at the end of a dirt road, not a gravel road, but a dirt road. It was very, very treacherous in wet weather. And there was no electric lights to speak of. There were lights, but they only worked part time. They had a telegraph station. That was the way to communicate with the outside world.

[Assistant] How did you communicate?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was about 80 percent done and it wasn't completed, but it increased the volume of water that came into town quite a bit by picking up side streams along the way. It was no major river or anything that we had. The last two kilometers were tough going. I don't know if they ever finished it or not, I didn't keep in touch with them.

[Assistant] So after you left, did any other volunteers continue in that area?

[User] Apparently, there was another volunteer who supposedly took my place, but he had some health issues and I lost track of it after that. There's a Peace Corps volunteer in Nabón now, I understand, that I'm going to try to track her down. Nabón has changed quite a bit from when I was there. When I was there, it was at the end of a dirt road, not a gravel road, but a dirt road. It was very, very treacherous in wet weather. And there was no electric lights to speak of. There were lights, but they only worked part time. They had a telegraph station. That was the way to communicate with the outside world.

[Assistant] How did you communicate?

[User] Using the telegraph. You could send a telegram, but you couldn't. There were no cell phones.

[Assistant] Was there any difference between the second year and the first year of your service?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Apparently, there was another volunteer who supposedly took my place, but he had some health issues and I lost track of it after that. There's a Peace Corps volunteer in Nabón now, I understand, that I'm going to try to track her down. Nabón has changed quite a bit from when I was there. When I was there, it was at the end of a dirt road, not a gravel road, but a dirt road. It was very, very treacherous in wet weather. And there was no electric lights to speak of. There were lights, but they only worked part time. They had a telegraph station. That was the way to communicate with the outside world.

[Assistant] How did you communicate?

[User] Using the telegraph. You could send a telegram, but you couldn't. There were no cell phones.

[Assistant] Was there any difference between the second year and the first year of your service?

[User] Uh, as I became more comfortable, I became more independent.

[Assistant] What would you do for food?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Using the telegraph. You could send a telegram, but you couldn't. There were no cell phones.

[Assistant] Was there any difference between the second year and the first year of your service?

[User] Uh, as I became more comfortable, I became more independent.

[Assistant] What would you do for food?

[User] You go to town once a month and you got non-perishables. Vegetables and whatnot. Meat was a rarity, a lot of tuna fish. Buy a salami and hang the salami off this tent pole, the ridge pole of the tent. Peel the mold off before you ate it, but other than that, it was. I had no complaints about what we ate. And these were. Make everything in a frying pan on a Coleman stove. Great spaghetti recipe. A lot of rice. As I say, a lot of tuna fish, canned tuna fish.

[Assistant] What would you say were your, um, what did you like most about your Peace Corps experience?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, as I became more comfortable, I became more independent.

[Assistant] What would you do for food?

[User] You go to town once a month and you got non-perishables. Vegetables and whatnot. Meat was a rarity, a lot of tuna fish. Buy a salami and hang the salami off this tent pole, the ridge pole of the tent. Peel the mold off before you ate it, but other than that, it was. I had no complaints about what we ate. And these were. Make everything in a frying pan on a Coleman stove. Great spaghetti recipe. A lot of rice. As I say, a lot of tuna fish, canned tuna fish.

[Assistant] What would you say were your, um, what did you like most about your Peace Corps experience?

[User] I didn't mind the solitude, actually, as long as you had an occasional interaction with people. But one time up there, I spent 21 days without seeing another human being other than myself in the shaving mirror. That was a little unsettling because I had big plans for a lot of construction. But the people just didn't show up, and I couldn't figure out why. And after 21 days of doing nothing, I walked down in a town to find out that the padre had started to build a A-frame in the front of this traditional Spanish Mission style church. And refused to give the people sacraments unless they worked on his project rather than my project. The padre and I had words. But it's the way things were.

[Assistant] Did you get any vacation? Did you do anything special during your vacation time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You go to town once a month and you got non-perishables. Vegetables and whatnot. Meat was a rarity, a lot of tuna fish. Buy a salami and hang the salami off this tent pole, the ridge pole of the tent. Peel the mold off before you ate it, but other than that, it was. I had no complaints about what we ate. And these were. Make everything in a frying pan on a Coleman stove. Great spaghetti recipe. A lot of rice. As I say, a lot of tuna fish, canned tuna fish.

[Assistant] What would you say were your, um, what did you like most about your Peace Corps experience?

[User] I didn't mind the solitude, actually, as long as you had an occasional interaction with people. But one time up there, I spent 21 days without seeing another human being other than myself in the shaving mirror. That was a little unsettling because I had big plans for a lot of construction. But the people just didn't show up, and I couldn't figure out why. And after 21 days of doing nothing, I walked down in a town to find out that the padre had started to build a A-frame in the front of this traditional Spanish Mission style church. And refused to give the people sacraments unless they worked on his project rather than my project. The padre and I had words. But it's the way things were.

[Assistant] Did you get any vacation? Did you do anything special during your vacation time?

[User] I saved all my vacation and took it out. You had to do 15 days in country. Which I did. And then I had another 38 days left. You could only spend 30 days out of country. I went to Chile and skied for a month. They got 15 feet of snow in 1965. Portillo avalanched, so I didn't get to go to Portillo, but I skied at Farellones and La Parva most of the month. Spent a week in Buenos Aires when the weather was really inclement.

[Assistant] After you got back from the Peace Corps, how was your reentry back home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn't mind the solitude, actually, as long as you had an occasional interaction with people. But one time up there, I spent 21 days without seeing another human being other than myself in the shaving mirror. That was a little unsettling because I had big plans for a lot of construction. But the people just didn't show up, and I couldn't figure out why. And after 21 days of doing nothing, I walked down in a town to find out that the padre had started to build a A-frame in the front of this traditional Spanish Mission style church. And refused to give the people sacraments unless they worked on his project rather than my project. The padre and I had words. But it's the way things were.

[Assistant] Did you get any vacation? Did you do anything special during your vacation time?

[User] I saved all my vacation and took it out. You had to do 15 days in country. Which I did. And then I had another 38 days left. You could only spend 30 days out of country. I went to Chile and skied for a month. They got 15 feet of snow in 1965. Portillo avalanched, so I didn't get to go to Portillo, but I skied at Farellones and La Parva most of the month. Spent a week in Buenos Aires when the weather was really inclement.

[Assistant] After you got back from the Peace Corps, how was your reentry back home?

[User] It was actually pretty smooth. We were warned that when we'd get home, the people really didn't give a damn about what you'd done for two years in the Peace Corps. And initially, I couldn't believe that people wouldn't at least have some interest in what went on, but basically they didn't, which I found kind of comical.

[Assistant] Did your Peace Corps experience help you with your career after the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I saved all my vacation and took it out. You had to do 15 days in country. Which I did. And then I had another 38 days left. You could only spend 30 days out of country. I went to Chile and skied for a month. They got 15 feet of snow in 1965. Portillo avalanched, so I didn't get to go to Portillo, but I skied at Farellones and La Parva most of the month. Spent a week in Buenos Aires when the weather was really inclement.

[Assistant] After you got back from the Peace Corps, how was your reentry back home?

[User] It was actually pretty smooth. We were warned that when we'd get home, the people really didn't give a damn about what you'd done for two years in the Peace Corps. And initially, I couldn't believe that people wouldn't at least have some interest in what went on, but basically they didn't, which I found kind of comical.

[Assistant] Did your Peace Corps experience help you with your career after the Peace Corps?

[User] It gave me a different appreciation for life. I ended up going to graduate school at MIT and got a degree in geotechnical engineering. Master's degree in geotechnical engineering. And I had the opportunity to select different projects. And I've tended to pick projects that were of interest to me that related to Peace Corps work, formally related to Peace Corps work, dams and tunnels and canals.

[Assistant] So how is that? I mean, it's over 50 years ago that you were there. How, how much? What part of your life was? Well, how did it contribute to your life experiences?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was actually pretty smooth. We were warned that when we'd get home, the people really didn't give a damn about what you'd done for two years in the Peace Corps. And initially, I couldn't believe that people wouldn't at least have some interest in what went on, but basically they didn't, which I found kind of comical.

[Assistant] Did your Peace Corps experience help you with your career after the Peace Corps?

[User] It gave me a different appreciation for life. I ended up going to graduate school at MIT and got a degree in geotechnical engineering. Master's degree in geotechnical engineering. And I had the opportunity to select different projects. And I've tended to pick projects that were of interest to me that related to Peace Corps work, formally related to Peace Corps work, dams and tunnels and canals.

[Assistant] So how is that? I mean, it's over 50 years ago that you were there. How, how much? What part of your life was? Well, how did it contribute to your life experiences?

[User] Well, I think there was always a desire to continue to volunteer. Probably one of my greatest satisfactions when I came home was to. I lived out in rural Oregon. And was instrumental in putting together a program that got a kindergarten built. It had been voted down consistently for the last 15 years before I got there. And I'd say that my Peace Corps volunteer time helped me orchestrate the completion of the kindergarten. Funding and completion of the kindergarten. Knew how to how to handle a rope, so to speak.

[Assistant] So volunteerism became part of your life afterwards?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It gave me a different appreciation for life. I ended up going to graduate school at MIT and got a degree in geotechnical engineering. Master's degree in geotechnical engineering. And I had the opportunity to select different projects. And I've tended to pick projects that were of interest to me that related to Peace Corps work, formally related to Peace Corps work, dams and tunnels and canals.

[Assistant] So how is that? I mean, it's over 50 years ago that you were there. How, how much? What part of your life was? Well, how did it contribute to your life experiences?

[User] Well, I think there was always a desire to continue to volunteer. Probably one of my greatest satisfactions when I came home was to. I lived out in rural Oregon. And was instrumental in putting together a program that got a kindergarten built. It had been voted down consistently for the last 15 years before I got there. And I'd say that my Peace Corps volunteer time helped me orchestrate the completion of the kindergarten. Funding and completion of the kindergarten. Knew how to how to handle a rope, so to speak.

[Assistant] So volunteerism became part of your life afterwards?

[User] Yes. Yeah, I'm active in professional societies and civic issues.

[Assistant] Have you stayed in touch with any of the former volunteers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think there was always a desire to continue to volunteer. Probably one of my greatest satisfactions when I came home was to. I lived out in rural Oregon. And was instrumental in putting together a program that got a kindergarten built. It had been voted down consistently for the last 15 years before I got there. And I'd say that my Peace Corps volunteer time helped me orchestrate the completion of the kindergarten. Funding and completion of the kindergarten. Knew how to how to handle a rope, so to speak.

[Assistant] So volunteerism became part of your life afterwards?

[User] Yes. Yeah, I'm active in professional societies and civic issues.

[Assistant] Have you stayed in touch with any of the former volunteers?

[User] Not too many. Gary Richardson and Stan Laser are the two that I communicate with most frequently.

[Assistant] Have you maintained any contacts with people from Ecuador?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yeah, I'm active in professional societies and civic issues.

[Assistant] Have you stayed in touch with any of the former volunteers?

[User] Not too many. Gary Richardson and Stan Laser are the two that I communicate with most frequently.

[Assistant] Have you maintained any contacts with people from Ecuador?

[User] No.

[Assistant] How about your social life in Ecuador?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not too many. Gary Richardson and Stan Laser are the two that I communicate with most frequently.

[Assistant] Have you maintained any contacts with people from Ecuador?

[User] No.

[Assistant] How about your social life in Ecuador?

[User] I went down there single and I came home single, so it wasn't very active. I had some good friends down there. I can't remember their names now, most of them. I had friends in the campo and friends in the city. The apartment that Stan and I had shared together with, he and several other people, was sort of the party central. And when Stan and I would come to town, the people in the city would have spent all their monthly salary by the time we got there and we always had money enough to have a barbecue.

[Assistant] Are there any other things that, any other experiences that you had that you would think were unusual or difficult, different, that come to mind?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] How about your social life in Ecuador?

[User] I went down there single and I came home single, so it wasn't very active. I had some good friends down there. I can't remember their names now, most of them. I had friends in the campo and friends in the city. The apartment that Stan and I had shared together with, he and several other people, was sort of the party central. And when Stan and I would come to town, the people in the city would have spent all their monthly salary by the time we got there and we always had money enough to have a barbecue.

[Assistant] Are there any other things that, any other experiences that you had that you would think were unusual or difficult, different, that come to mind?

[User] Probably the greatest confrontation that I had down there was with the padre over the construction project that he pulled off on the church. I thought that was ill advised and ill founded, it served nothing, nothing to the benefit of the people in the town other than enhancement of the padre's image with the local, I don't know the right word for it, but the Catholic Church hierarchy in Cuenca. It was a project that he could do and say, oh, look at this, I did it. I improved the church. But it didn't improve the life of the people that lived there at all. And I found that annoying at best.

[Assistant] How did you deal with the local politics in the town? Were there different factions, some that maybe wanted the canal, maybe some that didn't?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I went down there single and I came home single, so it wasn't very active. I had some good friends down there. I can't remember their names now, most of them. I had friends in the campo and friends in the city. The apartment that Stan and I had shared together with, he and several other people, was sort of the party central. And when Stan and I would come to town, the people in the city would have spent all their monthly salary by the time we got there and we always had money enough to have a barbecue.

[Assistant] Are there any other things that, any other experiences that you had that you would think were unusual or difficult, different, that come to mind?

[User] Probably the greatest confrontation that I had down there was with the padre over the construction project that he pulled off on the church. I thought that was ill advised and ill founded, it served nothing, nothing to the benefit of the people in the town other than enhancement of the padre's image with the local, I don't know the right word for it, but the Catholic Church hierarchy in Cuenca. It was a project that he could do and say, oh, look at this, I did it. I improved the church. But it didn't improve the life of the people that lived there at all. And I found that annoying at best.

[Assistant] How did you deal with the local politics in the town? Were there different factions, some that maybe wanted the canal, maybe some that didn't?

[User] Everybody wanted the canal. Everybody didn't want to work on the canal. And it was my job to, as a Peace Corps volunteer and community development worker, to encourage people to go up and work. And they had nothing to give them other than the water. But they did a masterful job of digging a ditch. Actually, I've got a water right, too. I don't know what I'll ever do with it.

[Assistant] Maybe when you retire.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably the greatest confrontation that I had down there was with the padre over the construction project that he pulled off on the church. I thought that was ill advised and ill founded, it served nothing, nothing to the benefit of the people in the town other than enhancement of the padre's image with the local, I don't know the right word for it, but the Catholic Church hierarchy in Cuenca. It was a project that he could do and say, oh, look at this, I did it. I improved the church. But it didn't improve the life of the people that lived there at all. And I found that annoying at best.

[Assistant] How did you deal with the local politics in the town? Were there different factions, some that maybe wanted the canal, maybe some that didn't?

[User] Everybody wanted the canal. Everybody didn't want to work on the canal. And it was my job to, as a Peace Corps volunteer and community development worker, to encourage people to go up and work. And they had nothing to give them other than the water. But they did a masterful job of digging a ditch. Actually, I've got a water right, too. I don't know what I'll ever do with it.

[Assistant] Maybe when you retire.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Go back there and start a farm, you have water. How about traveling in the country? Did you visit different places in Ecuador? Did you have time to do that? Any interesting little side trips?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Everybody wanted the canal. Everybody didn't want to work on the canal. And it was my job to, as a Peace Corps volunteer and community development worker, to encourage people to go up and work. And they had nothing to give them other than the water. But they did a masterful job of digging a ditch. Actually, I've got a water right, too. I don't know what I'll ever do with it.

[Assistant] Maybe when you retire.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Go back there and start a farm, you have water. How about traveling in the country? Did you visit different places in Ecuador? Did you have time to do that? Any interesting little side trips?

[User] I did side trips to the coast. One Christmas, Stan and John Snead and I went down to the coast. And we were told we couldn't go to Playa de Salinas because the Peace Corps volunteers' local representative was going to be down there with his family. So we went to a place called Bajo Alto, which is south of Guayaquil. That was an experience. It was a black volcanic sand beach, beautiful beach, but there was nobody there but the three gringos. I can't even remember where we ate. There was a cantina there and there were feral hogs living on the beach, and they were all lined up out of the sun. Took a picture and sent it to my dad and said, yeah, it's true, only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noonday sun. Probably 10 hogs lying in the front of this cantina under the palm fronds.

[Assistant] You travel to any other places in the Sierra?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Go back there and start a farm, you have water. How about traveling in the country? Did you visit different places in Ecuador? Did you have time to do that? Any interesting little side trips?

[User] I did side trips to the coast. One Christmas, Stan and John Snead and I went down to the coast. And we were told we couldn't go to Playa de Salinas because the Peace Corps volunteers' local representative was going to be down there with his family. So we went to a place called Bajo Alto, which is south of Guayaquil. That was an experience. It was a black volcanic sand beach, beautiful beach, but there was nobody there but the three gringos. I can't even remember where we ate. There was a cantina there and there were feral hogs living on the beach, and they were all lined up out of the sun. Took a picture and sent it to my dad and said, yeah, it's true, only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noonday sun. Probably 10 hogs lying in the front of this cantina under the palm fronds.

[Assistant] You travel to any other places in the Sierra?

[User] Well, any place you went by bus was an adventure, and it was always by bus. Nobody. Airfares were expensive and they were hard to schedule with the weather. But a trip down the Pan-American Highway in a bus when it was a gravel road was an exciting trip. The busses, some were sort of suspect in terms of safety. But they got the job done.

[Assistant] So I understand you also took a trip to the Oriente, which is over the.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did side trips to the coast. One Christmas, Stan and John Snead and I went down to the coast. And we were told we couldn't go to Playa de Salinas because the Peace Corps volunteers' local representative was going to be down there with his family. So we went to a place called Bajo Alto, which is south of Guayaquil. That was an experience. It was a black volcanic sand beach, beautiful beach, but there was nobody there but the three gringos. I can't even remember where we ate. There was a cantina there and there were feral hogs living on the beach, and they were all lined up out of the sun. Took a picture and sent it to my dad and said, yeah, it's true, only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noonday sun. Probably 10 hogs lying in the front of this cantina under the palm fronds.

[Assistant] You travel to any other places in the Sierra?

[User] Well, any place you went by bus was an adventure, and it was always by bus. Nobody. Airfares were expensive and they were hard to schedule with the weather. But a trip down the Pan-American Highway in a bus when it was a gravel road was an exciting trip. The busses, some were sort of suspect in terms of safety. But they got the job done.

[Assistant] So I understand you also took a trip to the Oriente, which is over the.

[User] That's right, I've forgotten that.

[Assistant] Over the Andes Mountains down into the beginning of the Amazon basin.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, any place you went by bus was an adventure, and it was always by bus. Nobody. Airfares were expensive and they were hard to schedule with the weather. But a trip down the Pan-American Highway in a bus when it was a gravel road was an exciting trip. The busses, some were sort of suspect in terms of safety. But they got the job done.

[Assistant] So I understand you also took a trip to the Oriente, which is over the.

[User] That's right, I've forgotten that.

[Assistant] Over the Andes Mountains down into the beginning of the Amazon basin.

[User] Right. Stan and I did a preliminary road study looking to see if it was feasible to build a road. It was a road under construction called the [inaudible] road. This would have been from Cochapata to Tutupali. It was a two-day trip over the mountains. Then a couple of days into Tutupali. It was an adventure, to say the least. One of the classics was we went to a place where they made this moonshine whiskey. That was the high point I think. [inaudible] Squeeze the sugar cane and ferment the sugar cane and then distill it. It's still there. All pretty exciting for a gringo.

[Assistant] So would you recommend the Peace Corps to young people now?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's right, I've forgotten that.

[Assistant] Over the Andes Mountains down into the beginning of the Amazon basin.

[User] Right. Stan and I did a preliminary road study looking to see if it was feasible to build a road. It was a road under construction called the [inaudible] road. This would have been from Cochapata to Tutupali. It was a two-day trip over the mountains. Then a couple of days into Tutupali. It was an adventure, to say the least. One of the classics was we went to a place where they made this moonshine whiskey. That was the high point I think. [inaudible] Squeeze the sugar cane and ferment the sugar cane and then distill it. It's still there. All pretty exciting for a gringo.

[Assistant] So would you recommend the Peace Corps to young people now?

[User] I don't know what the Peace Corps is like now. I know it's changed quite a bit. I know most of the training is done in-country, whereas we were, we had a three-month training period between the University of Missouri at Columbia and Puerto Rico so that we were feet on the ground ready to go. And now they, as I say, they train in-country as I understand it. I can't say that I've honestly sent anybody to the Peace Corps as an adventure in their young lives or old lives. But the concept is still a valid one. I think we had more success than the State Department did in terms of getting projects done and acculturating with the people. We didn't live in a compound.

[Assistant] OK. Was there anything else that you think you might want to add about your experience, anything that people might want to hear?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Stan and I did a preliminary road study looking to see if it was feasible to build a road. It was a road under construction called the [inaudible] road. This would have been from Cochapata to Tutupali. It was a two-day trip over the mountains. Then a couple of days into Tutupali. It was an adventure, to say the least. One of the classics was we went to a place where they made this moonshine whiskey. That was the high point I think. [inaudible] Squeeze the sugar cane and ferment the sugar cane and then distill it. It's still there. All pretty exciting for a gringo.

[Assistant] So would you recommend the Peace Corps to young people now?

[User] I don't know what the Peace Corps is like now. I know it's changed quite a bit. I know most of the training is done in-country, whereas we were, we had a three-month training period between the University of Missouri at Columbia and Puerto Rico so that we were feet on the ground ready to go. And now they, as I say, they train in-country as I understand it. I can't say that I've honestly sent anybody to the Peace Corps as an adventure in their young lives or old lives. But the concept is still a valid one. I think we had more success than the State Department did in terms of getting projects done and acculturating with the people. We didn't live in a compound.

[Assistant] OK. Was there anything else that you think you might want to add about your experience, anything that people might want to hear?

[User] I don't know. I'd say that the Peace Corps had a positive influence on my life, just from a standpoint of change in perspective.

[Assistant] So one of the main reasons that you joined was there the military draft situation.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know. I'd say that the Peace Corps had a positive influence on my life, just from a standpoint of change in perspective.

[Assistant] So one of the main reasons that you joined was there the military draft situation.

[User] Well, I had to do something about, that was mandatory draft for everybody then.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And I had to do something with the military, which was why I had taken the Naval ROTC exam and Naval Officers Candidate School exam. But when I got home, the draft board was still sitting there waiting for me and they asked me what I was going to do. I told them I was going to be a graduate student at MIT and I had a kind of a low level teaching position there. And they said, go do that. So I did. But it was, the Peace Corps wasn't a substitute for the draft. You're still eligible for the draft.

[Assistant] I know several people that were drafted after they came home.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I had to do something about, that was mandatory draft for everybody then.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And I had to do something with the military, which was why I had taken the Naval ROTC exam and Naval Officers Candidate School exam. But when I got home, the draft board was still sitting there waiting for me and they asked me what I was going to do. I told them I was going to be a graduate student at MIT and I had a kind of a low level teaching position there. And they said, go do that. So I did. But it was, the Peace Corps wasn't a substitute for the draft. You're still eligible for the draft.

[Assistant] I know several people that were drafted after they came home.

[User] Came home, right.

[Assistant] So that happened.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I had to do something with the military, which was why I had taken the Naval ROTC exam and Naval Officers Candidate School exam. But when I got home, the draft board was still sitting there waiting for me and they asked me what I was going to do. I told them I was going to be a graduate student at MIT and I had a kind of a low level teaching position there. And they said, go do that. So I did. But it was, the Peace Corps wasn't a substitute for the draft. You're still eligible for the draft.

[Assistant] I know several people that were drafted after they came home.

[User] Came home, right.

[Assistant] So that happened.

[User] And I was prepared for that. If I got drafted, I'd have gone into the Army. So maybe thought the Navy was a better choice. I had an older brother and a younger brother that had been in the Marine Corps. I didn't need to replicate those experiences.

[Assistant] So either case of whether you were going into the military or the Peace Corps, it was still a form of service, you know, going back to the John F. Kennedy speech. What you can do for your country. So these two types of, two different types, completely different types of service, but it's still service.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Came home, right.

[Assistant] So that happened.

[User] And I was prepared for that. If I got drafted, I'd have gone into the Army. So maybe thought the Navy was a better choice. I had an older brother and a younger brother that had been in the Marine Corps. I didn't need to replicate those experiences.

[Assistant] So either case of whether you were going into the military or the Peace Corps, it was still a form of service, you know, going back to the John F. Kennedy speech. What you can do for your country. So these two types of, two different types, completely different types of service, but it's still service.

[User] Right. And I feel strongly about service to the country. I think the United States would be a lot better off if they did have mandatory service. I don't know what they'd do with all of the kids, what kind of service they'd find them. I mean, I think about the CCC and the WPA and the Roosevelt programs that were common during the Depression. The CCC was a great program. I still take advantage of their facilities, the national parks around the country.

[Assistant] OK, I think we're done.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I'm fairly gregarious anyway, so I like to hear other voices generally. I developed a whole picture and a whole image of these people who I'd never met before. Half of them I had never met before, and it was really strange to see them for the first time, some of them, in the TSUP when I went back about a month ago.

[Assistant] Do they match?

[User] No. Voices never match your expectations.

[Assistant] It's okay, they were there when you needed them.

[User] Yes. But that was kind of how the mood developed. In those days before the collision, I learned a little bit about the troubles they've had, especially with the fire. Vasily talked about it quite a bit, and Sasha. At some point Sasha explained to me -and he actually took me to where the fire occurred and showed me what he was doing and how the fire happened, and he gave me a long hour's description of everything that happened during the fire. It was very amusing. We were enjoying it. It was a good story, with serious undertones. But he wasn't making a big deal out of this; he was telling me a story, because I wanted to learn.\n\n And other times Vasily would talk about the near miss of the Progress docking, that Jerry has since then talked about a lot in the press, as being a near miss, and it was. A very close call.

[Assistant] You've mentioned the collision a couple of times.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Voices never match your expectations.

[Assistant] It's okay, they were there when you needed them.

[User] Yes. But that was kind of how the mood developed. In those days before the collision, I learned a little bit about the troubles they've had, especially with the fire. Vasily talked about it quite a bit, and Sasha. At some point Sasha explained to me -and he actually took me to where the fire occurred and showed me what he was doing and how the fire happened, and he gave me a long hour's description of everything that happened during the fire. It was very amusing. We were enjoying it. It was a good story, with serious undertones. But he wasn't making a big deal out of this; he was telling me a story, because I wanted to learn.\n\n And other times Vasily would talk about the near miss of the Progress docking, that Jerry has since then talked about a lot in the press, as being a near miss, and it was. A very close call.

[Assistant] You've mentioned the collision a couple of times.

[User] The collision demarcates everything for my flight, not because of the terribleness of the collision; because it changed the whole condition of the station and the environment in which we worked.

[Assistant] That's what we'd like for you to talk about, because it's been called the worst collision in the history of human space flight.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. But that was kind of how the mood developed. In those days before the collision, I learned a little bit about the troubles they've had, especially with the fire. Vasily talked about it quite a bit, and Sasha. At some point Sasha explained to me -and he actually took me to where the fire occurred and showed me what he was doing and how the fire happened, and he gave me a long hour's description of everything that happened during the fire. It was very amusing. We were enjoying it. It was a good story, with serious undertones. But he wasn't making a big deal out of this; he was telling me a story, because I wanted to learn.\n\n And other times Vasily would talk about the near miss of the Progress docking, that Jerry has since then talked about a lot in the press, as being a near miss, and it was. A very close call.

[Assistant] You've mentioned the collision a couple of times.

[User] The collision demarcates everything for my flight, not because of the terribleness of the collision; because it changed the whole condition of the station and the environment in which we worked.

[Assistant] That's what we'd like for you to talk about, because it's been called the worst collision in the history of human space flight.

[User] I'm sure that's true. (laughter)

[Assistant] And who better to know that. You've explained to us how relaxed you were when you went up there. Did it {the collision} change everything about the flight for you as well, your attitude? Did you feel differently than you had six weeks prior, when you boarded?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Who have you talked to already?

[Assistant] We have tried to talk to all the chairs of the working groups.

[User] What other astronauts?

[Assistant] You're our first one.

[User] Oh, I'm the first one. I'm sorry, I keep assuming you've spoken to Jerry and Shannon. It's not like the media. See, if you're like the media, you've already spoken to these people.

[Assistant] Well, scheduling has been quite an adventure for us, and we are scheduled to speak with Shannon Lucid tomorrow.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] What other astronauts?

[Assistant] You're our first one.

[User] Oh, I'm the first one. I'm sorry, I keep assuming you've spoken to Jerry and Shannon. It's not like the media. See, if you're like the media, you've already spoken to these people.

[Assistant] Well, scheduling has been quite an adventure for us, and we are scheduled to speak with Shannon Lucid tomorrow.

[User] Okay. Good. Good. Certainly use the framework of--another thing you should remember is that my flight represents a totally off-normal flight. I didn't really experience the routine of science on orbit for more than about five weeks, and after that, there was nothing standard about my flight. Totally unexpected, unplanned for.\n\n Shannon had a very, I think, classic stay on board an orbiting station, and I think starting with Jerry, it all started to go to rot. Then David actually basically had a pretty much standard tour of duty. At least half of it was. I think Andy [Thomas] finally has had a pretty clean flight. I just spoke to him this morning, and he believes that his increment probably was, next to Shannon's, the most benign.

[Assistant] That's good. Enjoy your vacation.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I am a farm boy.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] I grew up on a small farm in Missouri, not much more than just a couple of acres with some hogs and some trees. No tropical fruit trees, though, if you can imagine. We did have some apple trees and apricot, I believe. But so in the Peace Corps, I really did have to learn a lot about tropical fruits, even though I had grown up on a farm and had a degree actually in agriculture as well. So it was quite different. And something that we learned was to graft trees, citrus trees in particular. So that was something new for me as well.

[Assistant] So what kind of Peace Corps training did you have? Where was it and what was the training like?

[User] Right, so our training was in-country, the three months of training, at a little town called Jocotenango on the outskirts of Antigua, Guatemala, which is a colonial city well known for its quaintness and just beautiful architecture and the ruins there, and somewhat of a touristy town. So we had a training center just outside of town there, and we did, in the compound we did some training. But then we also traveled out to different, generally Ministry of Agriculture places, where they had farms and training centers and other things that we could actually do, practice on the grafting techniques and planting and doing the charlas about how to move into more crop diversification. So it was, it was a very good technical training, certainly building on my background in agriculture.

[Assistant] Were the other volunteers in your group also agriculturalists?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was my first real lesson in market driven economics, which I had studied in school, of course, but it sounded like a great idea to produce lots of new fruits for the market. But the fact was that there wasn't really a market there. And I don't think anybody had really studied the market to understand whether or not that would be feasible. So there's a lot of production that maybe didn't find a market. Nonetheless, I think families would generally eat some of the produce that they had, the fruits that they produced, particularly we even got into papaya, which is very nutritious. And we also did some coffee at higher elevations where the coffee was adaptable. Guatemala does have a pretty good coffee production.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So they were able to integrate into the market pretty well there. And at the lower altitudes, I worked with cacao, cacao for chocolate, so that also had somewhat of a market.

[Assistant] Has that changed in Peace Corps now, do you think? Are there more market driven approaches introduced?

[User] I think so. I hope so. And I think so. I think that's one thing that just gets better about Peace Corps is the programing. I think it certainly for me was, like I said, a practical lesson in you have to look at the value chain from the beginning, production all the way through to the final consumer, and make sure that what you're doing is going to be supported by a demand system there so.

[Assistant] Did you work at all with AID or with other development agencies when you were there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably so. I think there was a long pause there. And but she's a pretty adventurous person herself, grew up on a farm also in Minnesota. And was also a very altruistic person, I think, and had chosen a health profession, health care profession.

[Assistant] So she was a nurse to start out.

[User] She was a nurse, getting a nursing degree. So I think it was born out of a spirit of adventurism, a sense of wanting to do something that made a difference in the world. And the fact that I had some skills that I thought could be useful. And I said, if I can, if I can see one or two countries out of joining the Peace Corps, that's a good start. And if I can start making a difference in a small way, that's, you know, that's a great start too. Little did I know what it would lead to at the time though.

[Assistant] So we'll get to that later. So you applied for the Peace Corps. Did they immediately offer you Guatemala or was there another assignment you turned down? I didn't realize people turned down assignments. We just took the one we got.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Apparently people turned down assignments.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She was a nurse, getting a nursing degree. So I think it was born out of a spirit of adventurism, a sense of wanting to do something that made a difference in the world. And the fact that I had some skills that I thought could be useful. And I said, if I can, if I can see one or two countries out of joining the Peace Corps, that's a good start. And if I can start making a difference in a small way, that's, you know, that's a great start too. Little did I know what it would lead to at the time though.

[Assistant] So we'll get to that later. So you applied for the Peace Corps. Did they immediately offer you Guatemala or was there another assignment you turned down? I didn't realize people turned down assignments. We just took the one we got.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Apparently people turned down assignments.

[User] No, I did not have the chance to turn down an assignment. I don't think I would have, but I think our experience was unique, but probably not that unique to others at the time. I think for us we had about a 28 page application maybe, and lots of forms that had to be filled out and a series of interviews. And at one time I think we were almost ready to throw in the towel and say, OK, well, this isn't going to work. Because we had about four or five different recruiters as they transitioned in and out and just really couldn't seem to make any progress. But I think the persistence is one thing that obviously we need to have in the Peace Corps. So we continued to be persistent and insistent and really just put our minds to it. And the first nomination was for Lesotho for me to teach at a university, and then they said, we'll find an assignment for Kathy, your wife. And so we said, that sounds good. And I accepted. And meanwhile we graduated from our program.

[Assistant] So you were still in college?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Seeing the country. And about halfway there we called in to see how things were doing and they said, oh, by the way, your program was canceled.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] And so we pretty much started over then on the placement process and a few weeks later they called. Back then you had to call them or they called you and there were no cell phones or emails or anything. So we were then offered two options that they said they'll do everything they can to make sure we can both get in the program, though they only had a placement for one of us. And one was The Gambia and one was Guatemala, and we knew nothing about either of them. So we quickly again whipped out our encyclopedias at the time and anything else we could find and started reading up on whether we wanted to go swim with hippos or go in the jungles with the guerillas that are carrying guns down in Guatemala.

[Assistant] Oh, I was going to ask about that.

[User] There was a civil war going on in Guatemala at the time. And the guerrilla conflict throughout, particularly the central highlands and the western highlands was pretty intense. Nonetheless, it seemed like a fascinating place, a fascinating culture, and opportunity to learn, learn a language in Spanish. And we really didn't struggle much over it, but we opted for Guatemala and it turned out to be a great choice.

[Assistant] So did the war affect you when you were there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was a civil war going on in Guatemala at the time. And the guerrilla conflict throughout, particularly the central highlands and the western highlands was pretty intense. Nonetheless, it seemed like a fascinating place, a fascinating culture, and opportunity to learn, learn a language in Spanish. And we really didn't struggle much over it, but we opted for Guatemala and it turned out to be a great choice.

[Assistant] So did the war affect you when you were there?

[User]
Not directly, I would say. I would say the fact is the conflict at the time had receded from our area. And so what we saw was the effect of the conflict. Like I said, a lot of orphans and a lot of widows. There were two huge orphanages in our community run by missionaries, and each of them probably had three or 400 kids in them. So out of a very small village, to have that number of orphans is significant. And the stories that people were telling us were pretty intense in terms of even just a couple, three years before that, there had been a massacre in the community at the local fair. There apparently was a confrontation between the guerrillas and the army. And just a bunch of, just a bunch of people just got shot really badly and killed. And there were still mass graves in that area, and they're still discovering mass graves in that area to this day.

So it was a pretty difficult time as a newcomer to that community to integrate into the community, because there was just simply a lot of fear and a lot of, uh, a lot of suspicion of anyone really that was there. And so it took, I think, a lot longer for us to gain the confidence of even our neighbors and then the farmers and others. And villages that were further away up into the hills, almost sometimes impossible to even to be able to get entry into the villages.

[Assistant] So you were in the eastern highlands?

[User] Central highlands.

[Assistant] Central highlands, and that's where the war had really been?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Central highlands.

[Assistant] Central highlands, and that's where the war had really been?

[User] Right. So the war was still going on in other parts of the country and it would continue even for several years after we were there. But it had receded in this area. But nonetheless, every so often we would see movements and we would see, we actually were stopped once by the guerrillas. And of course, the military was very, very prevalent around this area. And but I would say I don't think we ever felt insecure. I don't think that we ever felt that our lives were in danger. You know, it's a part of the approach, of course, is community acceptance. And we were well accepted by our community. And if there were any, you know, potential threats, I think our community was there to take care of us and make sure nothing happened to us and looking out for us. Even though at the same time, I think a lot of times they were kind of wondering, you know, who's, where are these guys coming from and who are they? And do they actually eat children? That sort of a thing, you know, that was kind of a common myth.

[Assistant] So was that because you were just from the outside or because you were American?

[User] Just because we were outsiders.

[Assistant] So there wasn't anti Americanism because of the war?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were army.

[Assistant] They were army?

[User] Yeah. But like I said, we would occasionally cross paths with a guerrilla in the other villages. And one time they stopped a bus that we were on and collected a tax from us. But otherwise it was more just something that you did not generally see them. The conflict was far enough away from our area that there was no fighting going on there.

[Assistant] So I'm just amazed to hear that Peace Corps Washington had people in Guatemala during a war.

[User] Yeah, in retrospect, I'm kind of thinking that too, you know, because there was a very active conflict going on. Nonetheless, the areas of conflict were off-limits to us. Of course, our village happened to be, I think, on the margin of that. So I think probably they felt that, certainly at the time they felt it was safe. And again, like I said, we felt it was as well. So it was just on the, you know, was on the heels of some pretty serious conflict there. So again, the, never felt threatened from that myself but from, more from the common, uh, the common delinquency. It's really what I think we would have been afraid of. I did get actually held up at gunpoint once on a bus in the city and that sort of thing was actually quite common, getting your pocket picked in town, even one of the smaller towns, that wouldn't be unheard of.

[Assistant] Why was that going on? Because of the war?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. But like I said, we would occasionally cross paths with a guerrilla in the other villages. And one time they stopped a bus that we were on and collected a tax from us. But otherwise it was more just something that you did not generally see them. The conflict was far enough away from our area that there was no fighting going on there.

[Assistant] So I'm just amazed to hear that Peace Corps Washington had people in Guatemala during a war.

[User] Yeah, in retrospect, I'm kind of thinking that too, you know, because there was a very active conflict going on. Nonetheless, the areas of conflict were off-limits to us. Of course, our village happened to be, I think, on the margin of that. So I think probably they felt that, certainly at the time they felt it was safe. And again, like I said, we felt it was as well. So it was just on the, you know, was on the heels of some pretty serious conflict there. So again, the, never felt threatened from that myself but from, more from the common, uh, the common delinquency. It's really what I think we would have been afraid of. I did get actually held up at gunpoint once on a bus in the city and that sort of thing was actually quite common, getting your pocket picked in town, even one of the smaller towns, that wouldn't be unheard of.

[Assistant] Why was that going on? Because of the war?

[User] Just because the economy was so bad, there was so much poverty and people were willing to do whatever. So delinquency was very common, I would say.

[Assistant] So talk a little bit more about the town, the first town, as well as the second town you stayed in. What were, how big were these towns? What was going on there besides delinquency?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just because the economy was so bad, there was so much poverty and people were willing to do whatever. So delinquency was very common, I would say.

[Assistant] So talk a little bit more about the town, the first town, as well as the second town you stayed in. What were, how big were these towns? What was going on there besides delinquency?

[User] So the two towns were very distinct, and I tend to focus more on the second one where we were the longest, than the first one. But the first one, Morales Izabal on the eastern coast, was actually two towns. It was Morales and Bananera. And Bananera meaning the banana place basically. And this was where Del Monte had established huge plantations of banana production. And so an interesting place. The interesting thing about this was there was a relatively thriving economy because individuals there had been able to work on the banana farms and make relatively decent wages and have good Social Security programs and the like. And so there was a pretty thriving community there. This was a relatively large community between Morales and Bananera, I would guess probably around 20,000 people.

[Assistant] Oh, that is big.

[User] So I found myself really getting far, far away from those areas as I could and hopping on a bus and going 20, 30 minutes, sometimes even an hour away, to work in villages further away where they weren't part of the plantation, and maybe that they weren't directly benefiting from it. So but life there was interesting because there was a huge walled compound with nice houses and swimming pools and everything else behind it where all the executives came and lived. And there was a nice little airport there that they flew in on.

[Assistant] The executives being Americans or Guatemalans?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, just generally it would be drunken brawls and people would get drunk.

[Assistant] And there the economy was decent.

[User] And pull out their machetes and just start cutting each other up. It was, it was so much almost kind of part of the culture that it was, it wasn't really even scary. But nonetheless, uh, and a large part of the population there kind of were like cowboys. They maybe even had, you know, cattle ranches and the like. And so they carried guns. And, you know, again, if they had too much to drink, they became dangerous. So that, that was interesting. And actually, I think there were volunteers who actually were at one time, I know one for sure, that was shot, another that was macheted pretty bad. But generally we were able to steer clear of that sort of a confrontation. So

[Assistant] So that was the first town.

[User] That was the first site. And my wife didn't really like it there because the machismo too, everywhere you went, even with me. Hey, baby, how are you doing? You know, and so it was, uh, it was challenging, but we have good friends still from there. And we really bonded with some locals and including basically an adopted little girl that kind of is still part of our lives really to this day that was our neighbor. And so that was very positive in that sense. But because neither of the ministries that we worked with really wanted us there and just they pretty much told us that, we just decided that it was best to go somewhere where we could actually be productive in our work.

[Assistant] But it was you, not the Peace Corps, that decided?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We asked for the, yeah, we asked for the transfer. And so they picked this new site which our APCD told us, look, nobody's been here since the war.

[Assistant] What's APCD?

[User] Associate Peace Corps Director.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] He chose this site and said it's got good potential for our program. But no volunteers have been here for years and you'll be the first ones in there. And so it, it was very quaint, very dry, as opposed to the tropical area we'd been in. Had a rainy season of about three or four months where there was a cultivation period. Nice, beautiful valley with mountains around on all sides. And the indigenous culture there of Achi, which is the typical dress there, the women wear a woven fabric that is very distinct from any other place in the country and.

[Assistant] So when you see the Guatemalan embroidery, is that from there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He chose this site and said it's got good potential for our program. But no volunteers have been here for years and you'll be the first ones in there. And so it, it was very quaint, very dry, as opposed to the tropical area we'd been in. Had a rainy season of about three or four months where there was a cultivation period. Nice, beautiful valley with mountains around on all sides. And the indigenous culture there of Achi, which is the typical dress there, the women wear a woven fabric that is very distinct from any other place in the country and.

[Assistant] So when you see the Guatemalan embroidery, is that from there?

[User] Yeah, I would recognize somebody from that village very clearly. Some of the other villages, too, I could recognize around the country. But our village was very, very specifically a distinct design that's from that area. So it was very different in terms of the culture, of course, being almost an entirely indigenous culture. The four or five wealthy families in the village were all Latinos, um, mestizos, I guess they would say. And they ran the businesses basically and had the larger farms. And we were about ten or 12 kilometers from Salama, which is a larger, a larger city where there was a nice little donut shop that we could go and meet up with other volunteers and enjoy, you know, a nice tea and coffee or donuts and get some newspapers, English language newspapers even.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] So that was our refuge, I guess you'd say. But the community itself was very nice. We lived in a little mud hut that had actually at one time been the house for the generator for the missionaries across the street. So they had had their huge generator engine in this building. And it had.

[Assistant] So there was electricity?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I would recognize somebody from that village very clearly. Some of the other villages, too, I could recognize around the country. But our village was very, very specifically a distinct design that's from that area. So it was very different in terms of the culture, of course, being almost an entirely indigenous culture. The four or five wealthy families in the village were all Latinos, um, mestizos, I guess they would say. And they ran the businesses basically and had the larger farms. And we were about ten or 12 kilometers from Salama, which is a larger, a larger city where there was a nice little donut shop that we could go and meet up with other volunteers and enjoy, you know, a nice tea and coffee or donuts and get some newspapers, English language newspapers even.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] So that was our refuge, I guess you'd say. But the community itself was very nice. We lived in a little mud hut that had actually at one time been the house for the generator for the missionaries across the street. So they had had their huge generator engine in this building. And it had.

[Assistant] So there was electricity?

[User] There wasn't. Yeah, at that time. Yeah. Before there had not been, that's why they had the generator and once the electricity came to the town, then they moved the generator out.

[Assistant] And you moved in.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There wasn't. Yeah, at that time. Yeah. Before there had not been, that's why they had the generator and once the electricity came to the town, then they moved the generator out.

[Assistant] And you moved in.

[User] It then belonged to a woman, a local woman living in town. Had a dirt floor, fortunately had an indoor bathroom with a flush toilet.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] And but it was, that was, it was comfortable.

[Assistant] So a much, much better environment to do.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It then belonged to a woman, a local woman living in town. Had a dirt floor, fortunately had an indoor bathroom with a flush toilet.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] And but it was, that was, it was comfortable.

[Assistant] So a much, much better environment to do.

[User] Much better environment. And I think we felt much more comfortable there because the people really readily accepted us and welcomed us and invited us to their events. And we just started making great friends. And it was, uh, it was. It was.

[Assistant] Were they as traumatized by war as the other? Oh, you talked about that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And but it was, that was, it was comfortable.

[Assistant] So a much, much better environment to do.

[User] Much better environment. And I think we felt much more comfortable there because the people really readily accepted us and welcomed us and invited us to their events. And we just started making great friends. And it was, uh, it was. It was.

[Assistant] Were they as traumatized by war as the other? Oh, you talked about that.

[User] They were, yeah. They were.

[Assistant] So it's just a different culture.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Much better environment. And I think we felt much more comfortable there because the people really readily accepted us and welcomed us and invited us to their events. And we just started making great friends. And it was, uh, it was. It was.

[Assistant] Were they as traumatized by war as the other? Oh, you talked about that.

[User] They were, yeah. They were.

[Assistant] So it's just a different culture.

[User] It was still something that was part of their lives almost. And they still, you know, they were still wary of even though the conflict had moved out of that area. But it did affect them still very much. And of course, like I said, lots of widows and orphans there in town.

[Assistant] So when while you were in the Peace Corps, did you travel in Guatemala to other places or in Central America as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were, yeah. They were.

[Assistant] So it's just a different culture.

[User] It was still something that was part of their lives almost. And they still, you know, they were still wary of even though the conflict had moved out of that area. But it did affect them still very much. And of course, like I said, lots of widows and orphans there in town.

[Assistant] So when while you were in the Peace Corps, did you travel in Guatemala to other places or in Central America as well?

[User] Sure. I remember.

[Assistant] Was there vacation time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was still something that was part of their lives almost. And they still, you know, they were still wary of even though the conflict had moved out of that area. But it did affect them still very much. And of course, like I said, lots of widows and orphans there in town.

[Assistant] So when while you were in the Peace Corps, did you travel in Guatemala to other places or in Central America as well?

[User] Sure. I remember.

[Assistant] Was there vacation time?

[User] No, remember, I did want to see the world. And once I got to Guatemala, I realized that there were some other countries pretty close by. First, we did travel quite a bit on our vacation time around the country. So we saw most of the country, which is just, takes a long time to see such a beautiful place like Guatemala has so many different things from the lakes on the western side of the country. Lake Atitlán, of course, nestled in among those volcanoes and then visiting each of those villages in itself is so fascinating.

[Assistant] The all of the ruins.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, remember, I did want to see the world. And once I got to Guatemala, I realized that there were some other countries pretty close by. First, we did travel quite a bit on our vacation time around the country. So we saw most of the country, which is just, takes a long time to see such a beautiful place like Guatemala has so many different things from the lakes on the western side of the country. Lake Atitlán, of course, nestled in among those volcanoes and then visiting each of those villages in itself is so fascinating.

[Assistant] The all of the ruins.

[User] The ruins up north in Petén, the eastern coast and Rio Dulce. And there's just, there's so much to see there. And so though we were what we would call site rats, we spent most of our time in the site and only really came into Guatemala City when we needed to. We did travel to visit other volunteers in our group. And then a couple of times we traveled outside of the country. We did a whole circuit of the Mayan ruins through the Yucatan of, uh.

[Assistant] Mexico?

[User] Mexico, through Guatemala. So what they call the Ruta Maya, the Mayan route, which was about a four or five day trip on bus to see all the ruins that are part of that circuit. Ended up in Belize and spending four or five days there in Belize just on the beaches, yeah, on the cayes. Another trip then we went to Costa Rica and Honduras and I think we did El Salvador. At the time it was off limits to Peace Corps volunteers. But I think we went there just very briefly to get a taste of that as well. So then we had the opportunity to travel enough around Central America to see a good part of the area.

[Assistant] So talk a little bit about what happened when you came back. What was reentry like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The ruins up north in Petén, the eastern coast and Rio Dulce. And there's just, there's so much to see there. And so though we were what we would call site rats, we spent most of our time in the site and only really came into Guatemala City when we needed to. We did travel to visit other volunteers in our group. And then a couple of times we traveled outside of the country. We did a whole circuit of the Mayan ruins through the Yucatan of, uh.

[Assistant] Mexico?

[User] Mexico, through Guatemala. So what they call the Ruta Maya, the Mayan route, which was about a four or five day trip on bus to see all the ruins that are part of that circuit. Ended up in Belize and spending four or five days there in Belize just on the beaches, yeah, on the cayes. Another trip then we went to Costa Rica and Honduras and I think we did El Salvador. At the time it was off limits to Peace Corps volunteers. But I think we went there just very briefly to get a taste of that as well. So then we had the opportunity to travel enough around Central America to see a good part of the area.

[Assistant] So talk a little bit about what happened when you came back. What was reentry like?

[User] So reentry was, I would say, kind of gradual for us because we had the opportunity to stay in Guatemala after our Peace Corps service.

[Assistant] Oh, to do what?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. So it would not be a complicated, if you will, project and they've already done all their work and everything. And they said, well, will you help us devise a proposal and go with us to help pitch this proposal to the right people? And I said certainly, so when they said they had already raised basically a third of the cost in cash for the project and were willing to put in additional labor and other things as well. Then I said, I think you've got something going.

[Assistant] Yeah, definitely.

[User] And I said, this is something that obviously you worked on for years and tried to, they'd been raising funds for ten years or so, 20 years maybe, quite a while.

[Assistant] And where did that come from? From the mayor or just the community?

[User] This was their own money. They had raised it.

[Assistant] No, but who organized this, the mayor or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The, no, this community didn't even have a mayor. They had like a sub-mayor maybe. And so there was a group that had formed called like the Committee on Electrification or something.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User]
And so we went into the capital together a number of times, probably all told 15, 20 times, and met with a number of people. And we finally found a receptive person at the Ministry of, uh, in Guatemala City that was responsible for electrification. And he said, well, if you can find other resources, we'll put in $100,000 worth of our contribution, which is basically coming out and helping do the work and putting up the poles and stringing the cables and everything and putting in the transformers. We said, OK, so we've got $100,000 here and we've got $100,000 here. So I went to USAID and I said, I've got a great project and I've got two thirds of the resources already available. The community has done their work. The government is willing to do their effort. Would you be willing to put in a third?

And for USAID, and I didn't know this at the time, but that's slush fund money, $100,000. And so they basically didn't even have to put any money into it. They simply agreed to ask one of their implementers, which was the National Rural Electric Cooperative, to put that into it. And so it was a very small grant that they made to us. And so we formed essentially a public private partnership, which I didn't know what that meant at the time, but that's what it became. And I had a great project that brought electricity to about 40 families.

[Assistant] Fantastic.

[User] Probably around 200 or 300 persons, and really vitalize that community from that point on and uh.

[Assistant] Did they pay you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
And so we went into the capital together a number of times, probably all told 15, 20 times, and met with a number of people. And we finally found a receptive person at the Ministry of, uh, in Guatemala City that was responsible for electrification. And he said, well, if you can find other resources, we'll put in $100,000 worth of our contribution, which is basically coming out and helping do the work and putting up the poles and stringing the cables and everything and putting in the transformers. We said, OK, so we've got $100,000 here and we've got $100,000 here. So I went to USAID and I said, I've got a great project and I've got two thirds of the resources already available. The community has done their work. The government is willing to do their effort. Would you be willing to put in a third?

And for USAID, and I didn't know this at the time, but that's slush fund money, $100,000. And so they basically didn't even have to put any money into it. They simply agreed to ask one of their implementers, which was the National Rural Electric Cooperative, to put that into it. And so it was a very small grant that they made to us. And so we formed essentially a public private partnership, which I didn't know what that meant at the time, but that's what it became. And I had a great project that brought electricity to about 40 families.

[Assistant] Fantastic.

[User] Probably around 200 or 300 persons, and really vitalize that community from that point on and uh.

[Assistant] Did they pay you?

[User] No, no, no.

[Assistant] So this was all volunteer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably around 200 or 300 persons, and really vitalize that community from that point on and uh.

[Assistant] Did they pay you?

[User] No, no, no.

[Assistant] So this was all volunteer?

[User] It was all volunteer.

[Assistant] This is in your third year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, no.

[Assistant] So this was all volunteer?

[User] It was all volunteer.

[Assistant] This is in your third year?

[User] This is in my third year of being in Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Oh, this is in your third year.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This is in my third year of being in Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Oh, this is in your third year.

[User] This is my third year of being a Peace Corps volunteer. And so really, it was kind of a I guess you would say, the culmination of my time there.

[Assistant] Fantastic.

[User] And we had the inauguration and I think I COSed [close of service] probably a month after that. So.

[Assistant] And your wife continued being a nurse?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This is my third year of being a Peace Corps volunteer. And so really, it was kind of a I guess you would say, the culmination of my time there.

[Assistant] Fantastic.

[User] And we had the inauguration and I think I COSed [close of service] probably a month after that. So.

[Assistant] And your wife continued being a nurse?

[User] She continued in the health program there, which had gone very well for her as well too. So we had a very positive experience in the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] And then you stayed after Peace Corps as well?