[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. And you know, all these people being eaten by alligators and crocodiles and, you know, Tarzan movies. And all these sort of images of Africa were floating about, so I think it was very, very upsetting. And of course, we had no email, no cell phones, no reliable telephones even, so I literally didn't talk to my parents the entire time I was there. And you know, sometimes you'd go for weeks without getting a letter. The only way to really contact each other was by a letter. So, you know, it was a big deal, and I, oh, I was an only child and still am.

[Assistant] Yeah. So that must have been devastating for them.

[User] Maybe a little more difficult. Yeah. And my family really didn't travel too much. We went, we had gone to North Carolina, where my father's family was from. So we weren't totally, you know, I wasn't a kid who had never been out of the state. But um, but you know, we had really basically gone to see family. And that was it. We had not gone to Europe or anything like, I had, but my family hadn't. So it was a big deal for me to do this. And they did not encourage it. In fact, they told me they would disown me.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Yeah, they actually told me they would disown me. And I just said, well, OK. It didn't seem like a real big deal. Our family had no money anyway. So I thought, well, I guess, and once, I couldn't believe. My mother and I were very close and I couldn't really believe that this would happen, you know?

[Assistant] It didn't, did it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Maybe a little more difficult. Yeah. And my family really didn't travel too much. We went, we had gone to North Carolina, where my father's family was from. So we weren't totally, you know, I wasn't a kid who had never been out of the state. But um, but you know, we had really basically gone to see family. And that was it. We had not gone to Europe or anything like, I had, but my family hadn't. So it was a big deal for me to do this. And they did not encourage it. In fact, they told me they would disown me.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Yeah, they actually told me they would disown me. And I just said, well, OK. It didn't seem like a real big deal. Our family had no money anyway. So I thought, well, I guess, and once, I couldn't believe. My mother and I were very close and I couldn't really believe that this would happen, you know?

[Assistant] It didn't, did it?

[User] And it didn't. No, it didn't. But it was a big threat. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Um. When you got your invitation and you were told you were going to be at the, um, this health college?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, they actually told me they would disown me. And I just said, well, OK. It didn't seem like a real big deal. Our family had no money anyway. So I thought, well, I guess, and once, I couldn't believe. My mother and I were very close and I couldn't really believe that this would happen, you know?

[Assistant] It didn't, did it?

[User] And it didn't. No, it didn't. But it was a big threat. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Um. When you got your invitation and you were told you were going to be at the, um, this health college?

[User] No, actually, I wasn't. When I got my invitation.

[Assistant] Oh no, I guess you don't know when you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I mean, she barely got in country, and they thought she was perfect because she was very gung-ho, very enthusiastic. But I think she had so many expectations and she just knew she was going to be of great service and everything, but at the same time maybe wasn't prepared for the, um. So, I mean, Ethiopia was really, I mean, probably still is, but it was, you know, really a kind of a shocking place for, in terms of development, even by the standards of other developing countries at that time. It was on the very bottom, you know.

[Assistant] When I think of Ethiopia from then, I always think of the pictures of starving people. That's my marker when I was in Peace Corps.

[User] Yeah. And that was a little bit later, actually.

[Assistant] Was that later? It was Biafra when I was a kid, and then Ethiopia.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] So what was your training experience like, your home stay, the language training? Can you talk about each of the pieces?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Amharic.

[Assistant] Amharic?

[User] Mm hmm. A-M-H-A-R-I-C. And so what else about, oh.

[Assistant] How many were in your group?

[User] In our group, you know, I really don't know. They divided our group into the ag people and the public health people. And so I was in the public health group and almost everybody in our group was a nurse in that group. Initially, there were a lot of rural development people and a lot of agricultural people, engineers, and there were some lawyers, too. There were three lawyers who were doing land reform. So in my little, you know, when they divided us, they sent the ag people way down south and we hardly ever saw them. You know, once in a while, we'd see them in Addis. So I don't know how many were in our group, that's really a good question. I think there were about, maybe about 40 or 50 in our total group, the 13. But I think in our little group, maybe about 20.

[Assistant] So were you the only?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm. A-M-H-A-R-I-C. And so what else about, oh.

[Assistant] How many were in your group?

[User] In our group, you know, I really don't know. They divided our group into the ag people and the public health people. And so I was in the public health group and almost everybody in our group was a nurse in that group. Initially, there were a lot of rural development people and a lot of agricultural people, engineers, and there were some lawyers, too. There were three lawyers who were doing land reform. So in my little, you know, when they divided us, they sent the ag people way down south and we hardly ever saw them. You know, once in a while, we'd see them in Addis. So I don't know how many were in our group, that's really a good question. I think there were about, maybe about 40 or 50 in our total group, the 13. But I think in our little group, maybe about 20.

[Assistant] So were you the only?

[User] Some people got sent home early too, from that group too, for smoking grass and various things. So we were dwindling pretty fast. So yeah, what were you going to say?

[Assistant] Um, you said you were with the public health group and you were going to be teaching English at this public health college.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In our group, you know, I really don't know. They divided our group into the ag people and the public health people. And so I was in the public health group and almost everybody in our group was a nurse in that group. Initially, there were a lot of rural development people and a lot of agricultural people, engineers, and there were some lawyers, too. There were three lawyers who were doing land reform. So in my little, you know, when they divided us, they sent the ag people way down south and we hardly ever saw them. You know, once in a while, we'd see them in Addis. So I don't know how many were in our group, that's really a good question. I think there were about, maybe about 40 or 50 in our total group, the 13. But I think in our little group, maybe about 20.

[Assistant] So were you the only?

[User] Some people got sent home early too, from that group too, for smoking grass and various things. So we were dwindling pretty fast. So yeah, what were you going to say?

[Assistant] Um, you said you were with the public health group and you were going to be teaching English at this public health college.

[User] Right. Yeah.

[Assistant] And the others were nurses. Was there anyone else who was assigned as an English teacher?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Some people got sent home early too, from that group too, for smoking grass and various things. So we were dwindling pretty fast. So yeah, what were you going to say?

[Assistant] Um, you said you were with the public health group and you were going to be teaching English at this public health college.

[User] Right. Yeah.

[Assistant] And the others were nurses. Was there anyone else who was assigned as an English teacher?

[User] No.

[Assistant] You were it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] How long do you remember? Was that like a month? And then you?

[User] Well, yeah, they kept. You know, it seems like we'd be there for three weeks or so, and then they would send us somewhere for something else. So, for example, one of the things my group was doing was going around looking at public health facilities around the country, which was really interesting.

[Assistant] Did they send you with the teacher or did they send you off with just the volunteers so you had to use your language?

[User] No, they always, we always had one of those Amharic speaking teachers.

[Assistant] You did, ah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, yeah, they kept. You know, it seems like we'd be there for three weeks or so, and then they would send us somewhere for something else. So, for example, one of the things my group was doing was going around looking at public health facilities around the country, which was really interesting.

[Assistant] Did they send you with the teacher or did they send you off with just the volunteers so you had to use your language?

[User] No, they always, we always had one of those Amharic speaking teachers.

[Assistant] You did, ah.

[User] Yeah, yeah. And in fact, when they sent Mary and me, they sent one of us, two of us to Gondar that year, and they sent an instructor just for the two of us. So, yeah, and he came every day for four hours.

[Assistant] While you were at the training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The food was, well, during training, everybody was getting sick constantly. It was like everybody had diarrhea, and not just a little bit, but really, really. Everybody was deathly ill almost all the time. We were getting, we got more shots after we got there. And of course, you're getting gamma globulin and cholera and everything, smallpox and all this stuff, and yellow fever. And I don't know if it was the shots, but probably it was just the initial problem too with the food, because most of us were sick for about six months while we were there.

[Assistant] Hmm.

[User]
And, you know, really a lot of, um, just a lot of vomiting and everything. And pretty soon, though, you actually got used to vomiting I have to say. And people would just, you know, like we'd be playing cards. And this was not during training, this was later, but people would just hop up and go get sick and come back. You know, it's kind of like we got used to it because it was, it got to be so common to be really sick. And there was a period, though, during training. Oh my gosh, am I ever going to feel well again? And I think they just told us, you know, we were eating, we were eating food that was really strange. But not only was it strange, it probably had a lot of bacteria. And because, you know, we were eating in strange places.

And everybody told us, once you get in your home, you'll be able to control. The American people who were training us said, don't worry, you know, once you get in your own home, you'll be able to boil your water. You'll be able to control for this sort of thing and you won't be so sick. And it certainly tapered off. We got better, you know, but I think it was a matter of adjusting.

[Assistant] So did you, during your training, did you go live with an Ethiopian family for a home stay?

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] Oh, you didn't do that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, they, um, I'm not sure the Ethiopians would have accepted that. Maybe there were too many of us. That wasn't part of our training. You were supposed to go to the town, but you did not live with a family. Instead, they sent these language people with you, which was more expensive. Yeah, you lived on your own. And I don't know. I mean, Ethiopians are a bit standoffish. In fact, more than a bit. They're very standoffish. And I don't, I can't quite imagine it. I guess if they had paid them, maybe, you know. I suppose they do that in other countries.

[Assistant] Yeah. Did they train you to teach during that training? Do they have you do practice teaching?

[User] A little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. In fact, many years later, I ran into the person who trained me in Peru.

[Assistant] In Peru?

[User] Yeah, yeah. She was working for a language training center and we were going to go out for lunch and we went out for lunch and we were having a lunch. And, you know, I didn't really remember this woman's name or anything. She started asking me about what I've done and everything, and lo and behold, we discovered, you know. I said, you're that Irene? You know, we discovered that she had been personally training me and we remembered, then we remembered many things that we said to each. Oh, I remember you in the classroom. And, you know, that was a very a big coincidence. But I would say the training was pretty, the teaching was pretty cursory. I mean, it wasn't, you know, it was just a little bit. I'm thinking a week, about a week. Yeah. Not very much.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. But it was a three month period of that kind of probationary training period.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. In fact, many years later, I ran into the person who trained me in Peru.

[Assistant] In Peru?

[User] Yeah, yeah. She was working for a language training center and we were going to go out for lunch and we went out for lunch and we were having a lunch. And, you know, I didn't really remember this woman's name or anything. She started asking me about what I've done and everything, and lo and behold, we discovered, you know. I said, you're that Irene? You know, we discovered that she had been personally training me and we remembered, then we remembered many things that we said to each. Oh, I remember you in the classroom. And, you know, that was a very a big coincidence. But I would say the training was pretty, the teaching was pretty cursory. I mean, it wasn't, you know, it was just a little bit. I'm thinking a week, about a week. Yeah. Not very much.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. But it was a three month period of that kind of probationary training period.

[User] Yeah, the emphasis was really on language, very much on language all the time. That was it. And a little bit on culture. But I would say 95 percent of it was on language.

[Assistant] And during that time period since the political situation was difficult, during that training period did you to get to be on your own at all? Did you go out into the market? Did you go out and do things? You go out and go to a bar at night or whatever? What was that like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I would say not too much. Mostly, we were. [tape break] Let me think, hmm. Yeah, there's a festival, it may have been a different festival, but it was one where you made a big bonfire and where you have to leap through the bonfire and you make, you know, you sing these songs and everything. And I remember them doing that sort of thing and dancing with them, you know, being taught some Ethiopian dances in it. But it seems to me, my recollection is that it was very much sort of internal. I remember talking to the maid, you know, that kind of thing. I'm sure we walked around Dire Dawa a little bit. But again, I think they kept us so programed and there wasn't much during training of going out and doing stuff on their own too much. Of course, when we went to our home stay, a little bit. But again, it seemed like Zaha was always hanging around us. And just like, you know, he wouldn't let us go to the market that day.

[Assistant] How soon after you got there did you know you were going to Gandar?

[User] Gondar?

[Assistant] Gondar.

[User] I think it was fairly soon because they had to arrange for these trips and stuff.

[Assistant] And so what you call home stay is going to the site that you were going to be at, to actually be assigned to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think it was fairly soon because they had to arrange for these trips and stuff.

[Assistant] And so what you call home stay is going to the site that you were going to be at, to actually be assigned to?

[User] Yeah, yeah. Yes.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Yeah. And actually, some of, we would do things like try to figure out where we were going to live. And, you know, there was some of that. Meet people at the Gondar Public Health College and that kind of thing.

[Assistant] Is there anything else about training that you think would be good to also share?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And actually, some of, we would do things like try to figure out where we were going to live. And, you know, there was some of that. Meet people at the Gondar Public Health College and that kind of thing.

[Assistant] Is there anything else about training that you think would be good to also share?

[User] Well, one really funny part of training was that we had a psychiatrist with us all the time. It was very funny. And he was with us during staging, and then he interviewed all of us to make sure we should even get on the plane. And then when we got there, he was just always hanging around and we were all paranoid. We were so afraid that we were going to get sent home. Now, you know, why that would have been so bad I'm not so sure. But you know, it was like a fate worse than death. You'll be sent home. And we were very worried about flunking out of the language training.

[Assistant] Yep.

[User] And we were very afraid that we would flunk out of the psychological profile, whatever that was. And so, of course, we never knew if we were OK or not, you know. And this guy would sit down and he was really kind of depressed himself. I think he was homesick and everything. But he'd be sitting with us and asking us questions and saying things like, how do you feel? And we would say, OK, OK! How's language? Oh, it's fine. So I remember being very intimidated by this guy following me around. Yeah. Did you have that? You have that also?

[Assistant] Not to that extent. I think they trained the in-country people and the associate director were watching us to see how we were doing.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, one really funny part of training was that we had a psychiatrist with us all the time. It was very funny. And he was with us during staging, and then he interviewed all of us to make sure we should even get on the plane. And then when we got there, he was just always hanging around and we were all paranoid. We were so afraid that we were going to get sent home. Now, you know, why that would have been so bad I'm not so sure. But you know, it was like a fate worse than death. You'll be sent home. And we were very worried about flunking out of the language training.

[Assistant] Yep.

[User] And we were very afraid that we would flunk out of the psychological profile, whatever that was. And so, of course, we never knew if we were OK or not, you know. And this guy would sit down and he was really kind of depressed himself. I think he was homesick and everything. But he'd be sitting with us and asking us questions and saying things like, how do you feel? And we would say, OK, OK! How's language? Oh, it's fine. So I remember being very intimidated by this guy following me around. Yeah. Did you have that? You have that also?

[Assistant] Not to that extent. I think they trained the in-country people and the associate director were watching us to see how we were doing.

[User] I'm sure it's very expensive.

[Assistant] I don't think there was a psych, there was nothing like that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we were very afraid that we would flunk out of the psychological profile, whatever that was. And so, of course, we never knew if we were OK or not, you know. And this guy would sit down and he was really kind of depressed himself. I think he was homesick and everything. But he'd be sitting with us and asking us questions and saying things like, how do you feel? And we would say, OK, OK! How's language? Oh, it's fine. So I remember being very intimidated by this guy following me around. Yeah. Did you have that? You have that also?

[Assistant] Not to that extent. I think they trained the in-country people and the associate director were watching us to see how we were doing.

[User] I'm sure it's very expensive.

[Assistant] I don't think there was a psych, there was nothing like that.

[User] It must have been incredibly expensive.

[Assistant] Yeah, it's funny, the picture though.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, we may have, but I don't really recall it. We probably did. The part I remember most is the FSI, the exam, Foreign Service Institute exam. That was really scary and they tape recorded it and everything. And I remember I did, you know, when you'd come out they would tell you how you did. And everybody would be applauding, all your other fellow volunteers would all be jumping up and down. And I remember I was really thrilled and really surprised that I did well on that, you know, so. It was a big deal.

[Assistant] So that was the rite of passage.

[User] There must have been some kind of ceremony, it just must not have been that salient to me. I don't know. I really don't. I don't remember it.

[Assistant] So then you and Mary, who was a nurse?

[User] Uh huh.

[Assistant] Got assigned to Gondar.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There must have been some kind of ceremony, it just must not have been that salient to me. I don't know. I really don't. I don't remember it.

[Assistant] So then you and Mary, who was a nurse?

[User] Uh huh.

[Assistant] Got assigned to Gondar.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Am I saying it right this time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh huh.

[Assistant] Got assigned to Gondar.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Am I saying it right this time?

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] So tell me about. So what happened when you got there and you start, you're without the teachers and you start more of a professional kind of life?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Am I saying it right this time?

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] So tell me about. So what happened when you got there and you start, you're without the teachers and you start more of a professional kind of life?

[User] Yeah, yeah. Well, I should say, oh, there was another thing during training. Let me go back to that just a little bit.

[Assistant] Yeah, go ahead.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] So tell me about. So what happened when you got there and you start, you're without the teachers and you start more of a professional kind of life?

[User] Yeah, yeah. Well, I should say, oh, there was another thing during training. Let me go back to that just a little bit.

[Assistant] Yeah, go ahead.

[User] Because one of the things that we did during training was go to these health places and we went to a leprosarium, for example. It was really interesting. Yeah, went to a leprosarium. We went to a maternal childcare clinic in Addis. Some of these places were in Addis. I think this was really a very well planned training, this part. And I remember walking through the wards. Actually, all the nurses came up to Gondar at one point because that was where the public health college was. So part of this training was this group of nurses and me going around the country, seeing these special sites that were real important for whatever and looking at how they were set up, you know, and looking at some of the problems. Like, at that time, Nestlé was, uh, remember that?

[Assistant] I sure do.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it was very interesting, though.

[Assistant] It sounds you've got to see a lot of the country by doing that, as well as different types of health issues.

[User]
Yeah, yeah. I think they tried to not, I mean, it wasn't like one end of the country to the other, but, you know, kind of in the central area. And then when we got to our site, you know, of course, we'd already been to the wards and that sort of thing, which I didn't ever go back in because I was the English teacher. But again, it was actually good for me, I think, to understand what my students were experiencing. And I worked with a sanitarians, they were called sanitarians, nurses and health officers, and the sanitarians and nurses had like 10, they completed 10th grade. So really, it was more like teaching high school. You know, we're talking fairly young people here. And the health officers had finished 12th grade. And the sanitarians would be working to help sanitation across the country.

The nurses would be basically public health nurses and the, well, they would. The deal was there would be health stations. Ethiopia at that time had basically no doctors. They had one doctor for every 10,000 people. And so the idea was that they wanted to set up these health stations across the country, each one of which would have a health officer who would function as a doctor even though he only had a 12th grade education. And, you know, a little bit of health, public health training. And then the sanitarians and the nurses. You need a break?

[Assistant] Uh uh.

[User] So, yeah, so that was it.

[Assistant] So tell me about where you and Mary lived first.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, but I guess I saw something, there was something in Newsweek. And, you know, but I didn't really think, particularly I didn't think an Ethiopian would have heard about it, and I didn't think that they would be tuned into this. But this guy was a very sophisticated, very important, very well-read and intelligent. And he just said, well, you know, I know you're CIA, but you're still doing a good job for the university and for the public health college. And so I'll accept that and I'll, you know, but he wanted us to know that he knew.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And it was really devastating, you know.

[Assistant] And did anything in your relationship with him and your interactions following that?

[User] We had no, we had no interaction with him after that. It had obviously been a formality, you know, to have these folks for dinner, greet them. And, you know, and he evidently had decided he wanted us to know this by the end of the evening. That was part of the evening. So it was pretty devastating again for these very young, very, very naive, fresh out of college students who just had an incredible naivete about the world, you know.

[Assistant] Did any of your other Ethiopian colleagues ever raise that issue with you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it was really devastating, you know.

[Assistant] And did anything in your relationship with him and your interactions following that?

[User] We had no, we had no interaction with him after that. It had obviously been a formality, you know, to have these folks for dinner, greet them. And, you know, and he evidently had decided he wanted us to know this by the end of the evening. That was part of the evening. So it was pretty devastating again for these very young, very, very naive, fresh out of college students who just had an incredible naivete about the world, you know.

[Assistant] Did any of your other Ethiopian colleagues ever raise that issue with you?

[User] You know, we were, I would say I was particularly isolated. I was the only English teacher, and I had very little contact with my Ethiopian colleagues. One of, there was somebody, they furnished us with a bus ride. There was an old school bus and it would pick us up every day if we wanted to, you know, if we didn't want to ride into town, into the campus. We could get a free ride on this public health college bus. And there was one colleague who had also been trained at Indiana. And, you know, she would sort of pleasantly say hello and, you know, but it wasn't. Nobody ever invited me for dinner or anything like that. It was, it was. People were pretty distant and maybe because my boss had said, they're members of the CIA, stay away from them. I don't know. I don't know, really.

[Assistant] So you never?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had no, we had no interaction with him after that. It had obviously been a formality, you know, to have these folks for dinner, greet them. And, you know, and he evidently had decided he wanted us to know this by the end of the evening. That was part of the evening. So it was pretty devastating again for these very young, very, very naive, fresh out of college students who just had an incredible naivete about the world, you know.

[Assistant] Did any of your other Ethiopian colleagues ever raise that issue with you?

[User] You know, we were, I would say I was particularly isolated. I was the only English teacher, and I had very little contact with my Ethiopian colleagues. One of, there was somebody, they furnished us with a bus ride. There was an old school bus and it would pick us up every day if we wanted to, you know, if we didn't want to ride into town, into the campus. We could get a free ride on this public health college bus. And there was one colleague who had also been trained at Indiana. And, you know, she would sort of pleasantly say hello and, you know, but it wasn't. Nobody ever invited me for dinner or anything like that. It was, it was. People were pretty distant and maybe because my boss had said, they're members of the CIA, stay away from them. I don't know. I don't know, really.

[Assistant] So you never?

[User] Like I said, they're pretty standoffish people. And you know, I guess I sort of thought, well, maybe they'll have us over at some point, but they didn't. The people who we socialized with were other ferengis, other foreigners. One was a Belgian doctor and his wife. And one was a British doctor and one was an Irish nurse. A couple of Yugoslavian doctors. Um, what else? Yeah, a lot of people came. American doctor who was there on the Ford Foundation and his wife.

[Assistant] There were that much of an international group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Like I said, they're pretty standoffish people. And you know, I guess I sort of thought, well, maybe they'll have us over at some point, but they didn't. The people who we socialized with were other ferengis, other foreigners. One was a Belgian doctor and his wife. And one was a British doctor and one was an Irish nurse. A couple of Yugoslavian doctors. Um, what else? Yeah, a lot of people came. American doctor who was there on the Ford Foundation and his wife.

[Assistant] There were that much of an international group?

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah. It's still, I guess a couple of my friends have gone back and they said it's just, you wouldn't recognize, it's really an important part of Ethiopia. You know, I guess it always was. It was the only place for medical training in the entire country. Yeah, it was the medical college for the country. It still is. [dog barks] Is that going to be a problem? Want me to?

[Assistant] All right. OK, so we're laughing because Roberta's dog is viciously mauling a toy.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah. It's still, I guess a couple of my friends have gone back and they said it's just, you wouldn't recognize, it's really an important part of Ethiopia. You know, I guess it always was. It was the only place for medical training in the entire country. Yeah, it was the medical college for the country. It still is. [dog barks] Is that going to be a problem? Want me to?

[Assistant] All right. OK, so we're laughing because Roberta's dog is viciously mauling a toy.

[User] And it reminded me of a lion. And in town Gondar was a really interesting city, and in fact it's still a tourist city, because the Portuguese came there in the 15th century, or I guess the 16th century, 1500s, and built a little castle and something that's now called the Fasilides Bath, which is used for baptisms by the Ethiopian Coptic Church, but was part of a structure built by the Portuguese in the 1500s. And at this one little place in the center of town, which is like a little castle, they kept lions. And it was kind of neat because you could hear these lions roaring at night and it was kind of wonderful, you know, just what you should hear in Africa.

[Assistant] That's so neat. So tell me about teaching and what your days were like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A couple of years ago. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Did you send emails back and forth?

[User] He was, yeah, we sent a few emails back and forth and he was basically just looking for a job in the U.S. and everything. But I guess the main thing was just to figure out, you know, wow, this kid, you know, who I haven't seen. And he was still calling me madam or something, you know? And I said, you know, Mengistu, we're really pretty close in age. We're like, probably, let's see, he was 15 and I was, what, 22. So actually, we're very close in age. And he also has a PhD.

[Assistant] What was he teaching?

[User] He became a physical therapist, and he ended up going to, I think, Sweden or somewhere for training. And, um, you know, getting scholarships and everything and. Yeah, yeah. And so he was very grateful to Peace Corps for really helping him initially get started.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. That's a great story.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was, yeah, we sent a few emails back and forth and he was basically just looking for a job in the U.S. and everything. But I guess the main thing was just to figure out, you know, wow, this kid, you know, who I haven't seen. And he was still calling me madam or something, you know? And I said, you know, Mengistu, we're really pretty close in age. We're like, probably, let's see, he was 15 and I was, what, 22. So actually, we're very close in age. And he also has a PhD.

[Assistant] What was he teaching?

[User] He became a physical therapist, and he ended up going to, I think, Sweden or somewhere for training. And, um, you know, getting scholarships and everything and. Yeah, yeah. And so he was very grateful to Peace Corps for really helping him initially get started.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. That's a great story.

[User] It was quite a shock, you know. It's the power of Google, you know? Yeah, it's wonderful.

[Assistant] Did the international community that was there, did you form friendships with those people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He became a physical therapist, and he ended up going to, I think, Sweden or somewhere for training. And, um, you know, getting scholarships and everything and. Yeah, yeah. And so he was very grateful to Peace Corps for really helping him initially get started.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. That's a great story.

[User] It was quite a shock, you know. It's the power of Google, you know? Yeah, it's wonderful.

[Assistant] Did the international community that was there, did you form friendships with those people?

[User] Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, that was really. That was really our source of social support, I would say. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] On the weekends, did you stay on campus at your compound or did you go to Addis Ababa?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was quite a shock, you know. It's the power of Google, you know? Yeah, it's wonderful.

[Assistant] Did the international community that was there, did you form friendships with those people?

[User] Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, that was really. That was really our source of social support, I would say. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] On the weekends, did you stay on campus at your compound or did you go to Addis Ababa?

[User] Yeah, no, no. Our compound was actually off campus. There was a little, um, Gondar was a town of I'm thinking about 30,000 people at the time that I lived there. It was a provincial capital and definitely we stayed there all the time. There was no easy way to go out. I mean, you could fly, but we didn't have any money. It was a little. [tape break]

[Assistant] Tape two, interview with Roberta Vann. OK, so we were talking about that you didn't actually have the materials for teaching the language that they would need for their profession.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, that was really. That was really our source of social support, I would say. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] On the weekends, did you stay on campus at your compound or did you go to Addis Ababa?

[User] Yeah, no, no. Our compound was actually off campus. There was a little, um, Gondar was a town of I'm thinking about 30,000 people at the time that I lived there. It was a provincial capital and definitely we stayed there all the time. There was no easy way to go out. I mean, you could fly, but we didn't have any money. It was a little. [tape break]

[Assistant] Tape two, interview with Roberta Vann. OK, so we were talking about that you didn't actually have the materials for teaching the language that they would need for their profession.

[User] Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, so it was more literary, which was good because that's what I was comfortable with, having had only literary training. And some of the essays, I remember they read about Pele.

[Assistant] The soccer player?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, no, no. Our compound was actually off campus. There was a little, um, Gondar was a town of I'm thinking about 30,000 people at the time that I lived there. It was a provincial capital and definitely we stayed there all the time. There was no easy way to go out. I mean, you could fly, but we didn't have any money. It was a little. [tape break]

[Assistant] Tape two, interview with Roberta Vann. OK, so we were talking about that you didn't actually have the materials for teaching the language that they would need for their profession.

[User] Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, so it was more literary, which was good because that's what I was comfortable with, having had only literary training. And some of the essays, I remember they read about Pele.

[Assistant] The soccer player?

[User] The soccer player, yeah.

[Assistant] He was around back then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, so it was more literary, which was good because that's what I was comfortable with, having had only literary training. And some of the essays, I remember they read about Pele.

[Assistant] The soccer player?

[User] The soccer player, yeah.

[Assistant] He was around back then?

[User] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you know, and they would tell me interesting things. They would, um, they would share things with me and so forth. You know, I wish, I guess in retrospect that I'd had the knowledge that I have now, you know, I could have done a much better job. But on the other hand, I think they were in pretty good shape language wise too.

[Assistant] I find it interesting that you said they already had some good skills.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The soccer player, yeah.

[Assistant] He was around back then?

[User] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you know, and they would tell me interesting things. They would, um, they would share things with me and so forth. You know, I wish, I guess in retrospect that I'd had the knowledge that I have now, you know, I could have done a much better job. But on the other hand, I think they were in pretty good shape language wise too.

[Assistant] I find it interesting that you said they already had some good skills.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And they didn't, they weren't shy in class. They would interact?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you know, and they would tell me interesting things. They would, um, they would share things with me and so forth. You know, I wish, I guess in retrospect that I'd had the knowledge that I have now, you know, I could have done a much better job. But on the other hand, I think they were in pretty good shape language wise too.

[Assistant] I find it interesting that you said they already had some good skills.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And they didn't, they weren't shy in class. They would interact?

[User] Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think probably I had a mostly teacher centered class and nobody had told me that that was a bad thing in those days. That would seem to be the perfect way to do things. You know, so we weren't making the demands on them that we would now make on students. But, you know.

[Assistant] How many classes did you teach?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And they didn't, they weren't shy in class. They would interact?

[User] Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think probably I had a mostly teacher centered class and nobody had told me that that was a bad thing in those days. That would seem to be the perfect way to do things. You know, so we weren't making the demands on them that we would now make on students. But, you know.

[Assistant] How many classes did you teach?

[User] It's hard to remember. I'm sure I taught, you know, the health officers, the nurses and the sanitarians. And I don't, I really don't remember if it was every day that I taught all three classes. I think it was. I think I taught all of them every day, which didn't seem like much to me at that. You know, I thought, geez, three hours of work, a little preparation, you know? And actually, I did have a lot of time, um, to read and that sort of thing.

[Assistant] How did you get books?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think probably I had a mostly teacher centered class and nobody had told me that that was a bad thing in those days. That would seem to be the perfect way to do things. You know, so we weren't making the demands on them that we would now make on students. But, you know.

[Assistant] How many classes did you teach?

[User] It's hard to remember. I'm sure I taught, you know, the health officers, the nurses and the sanitarians. And I don't, I really don't remember if it was every day that I taught all three classes. I think it was. I think I taught all of them every day, which didn't seem like much to me at that. You know, I thought, geez, three hours of work, a little preparation, you know? And actually, I did have a lot of time, um, to read and that sort of thing.

[Assistant] How did you get books?

[User] How did I?

[Assistant] How did you get books in English?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's hard to remember. I'm sure I taught, you know, the health officers, the nurses and the sanitarians. And I don't, I really don't remember if it was every day that I taught all three classes. I think it was. I think I taught all of them every day, which didn't seem like much to me at that. You know, I thought, geez, three hours of work, a little preparation, you know? And actually, I did have a lot of time, um, to read and that sort of thing.

[Assistant] How did you get books?

[User] How did I?

[Assistant] How did you get books in English?

[User] Oh, there was something called a Peace Corps book locker at that time. Evidently in earlier years, not in the year that I went in, but in previous years, maybe it went back many years. There was something about the Peace Corps book locker, and they used to give Peace Corps volunteers a hundred books, a hundred paperbacks. You know, isn't that wonderful?

[Assistant] That is so cool.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] How did I?

[Assistant] How did you get books in English?

[User] Oh, there was something called a Peace Corps book locker at that time. Evidently in earlier years, not in the year that I went in, but in previous years, maybe it went back many years. There was something about the Peace Corps book locker, and they used to give Peace Corps volunteers a hundred books, a hundred paperbacks. You know, isn't that wonderful?

[Assistant] That is so cool.

[User] But what happened was that, of course, we would hoard books and we'd hang on to books. And then in a town like Gondar, which had 30,000 people, in a country like Ethiopia, which had a large number of Peace Corps volunteers, you would have a large number of paperbacks floating about. And so, you know, that's where I read Exodus because somebody had it on their shelf. Jack Cahill had it on his shelf, you know, and so, oh, I haven't read that. But then we also luckily, we had a library. We were at a public health college, so we had a library, and many books were in English. So that's also where I read War and Peace, because that happened to be one of the books that was on the shelf. And, you know, it wasn't a huge selection, but I, you know, it was enough. It was really enough. And there's a lot of training around.

[Assistant] How many Peace Corps volunteers were in Gondar?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, there was something called a Peace Corps book locker at that time. Evidently in earlier years, not in the year that I went in, but in previous years, maybe it went back many years. There was something about the Peace Corps book locker, and they used to give Peace Corps volunteers a hundred books, a hundred paperbacks. You know, isn't that wonderful?

[Assistant] That is so cool.

[User] But what happened was that, of course, we would hoard books and we'd hang on to books. And then in a town like Gondar, which had 30,000 people, in a country like Ethiopia, which had a large number of Peace Corps volunteers, you would have a large number of paperbacks floating about. And so, you know, that's where I read Exodus because somebody had it on their shelf. Jack Cahill had it on his shelf, you know, and so, oh, I haven't read that. But then we also luckily, we had a library. We were at a public health college, so we had a library, and many books were in English. So that's also where I read War and Peace, because that happened to be one of the books that was on the shelf. And, you know, it wasn't a huge selection, but I, you know, it was enough. It was really enough. And there's a lot of training around.

[Assistant] How many Peace Corps volunteers were in Gondar?

[User] Four I think. Yeah, four of us.

[Assistant] So you and Mary. And then what were the others doing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] One. They were doing, I guess it would be called economic development. They were working with. They were trying to get people to do hides, to use hides for leather.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] You know, they previously, apparently the Ethiopians had thrown away their hides when they killed an animal and they were actually developing this industry so that they would, you know, tan the hides. And they were very excited about it. Oh, I'm leaving out one Peace Corps volunteer. There were, there was one other Peace Corps volunteer. There were five of us. The other one was in smallpox eradication. So he was gone a lot. And I always thought, that's what I'd like to be in, smallpox eradication, you know, go out to the villages and everything. And I actually begged him one time to take me with him. I thought that would be really fun, but he wouldn't do it. So these other guys.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] I don't know. These other guys were often gone. But they would come in and, you know, they'd pop in and see us and that sort of thing. And one of the guys in the tanning business took the overseas, had an overseas subscription to Newsweek. It was on a really thin tissue-like paper and somebody had given this to him as a gift. And so every week he would, you know, this Newsweek would be passed around and we'd all read about news. We'd all read the Newsweek and read what was happening in Ethiopia sometimes, you know, like a bridge was blown up. I remember that, and the cholera epidemic. And you know, we didn't even know about this stuff and were reading about it in Ed's Newsweek.

[Assistant] You know, it's interesting. In my year, Newsweek was sent to every volunteer.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, they previously, apparently the Ethiopians had thrown away their hides when they killed an animal and they were actually developing this industry so that they would, you know, tan the hides. And they were very excited about it. Oh, I'm leaving out one Peace Corps volunteer. There were, there was one other Peace Corps volunteer. There were five of us. The other one was in smallpox eradication. So he was gone a lot. And I always thought, that's what I'd like to be in, smallpox eradication, you know, go out to the villages and everything. And I actually begged him one time to take me with him. I thought that would be really fun, but he wouldn't do it. So these other guys.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] I don't know. These other guys were often gone. But they would come in and, you know, they'd pop in and see us and that sort of thing. And one of the guys in the tanning business took the overseas, had an overseas subscription to Newsweek. It was on a really thin tissue-like paper and somebody had given this to him as a gift. And so every week he would, you know, this Newsweek would be passed around and we'd all read about news. We'd all read the Newsweek and read what was happening in Ethiopia sometimes, you know, like a bridge was blown up. I remember that, and the cholera epidemic. And you know, we didn't even know about this stuff and were reading about it in Ed's Newsweek.

[Assistant] You know, it's interesting. In my year, Newsweek was sent to every volunteer.

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] It was. We all had a subscription whether we asked for it or not. And I never read it before or since, but I was so glad to get it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know. These other guys were often gone. But they would come in and, you know, they'd pop in and see us and that sort of thing. And one of the guys in the tanning business took the overseas, had an overseas subscription to Newsweek. It was on a really thin tissue-like paper and somebody had given this to him as a gift. And so every week he would, you know, this Newsweek would be passed around and we'd all read about news. We'd all read the Newsweek and read what was happening in Ethiopia sometimes, you know, like a bridge was blown up. I remember that, and the cholera epidemic. And you know, we didn't even know about this stuff and were reading about it in Ed's Newsweek.

[Assistant] You know, it's interesting. In my year, Newsweek was sent to every volunteer.

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] It was. We all had a subscription whether we asked for it or not. And I never read it before or since, but I was so glad to get it.

[User] Oh yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Was there a gender divide between the men and the women?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] It was. We all had a subscription whether we asked for it or not. And I never read it before or since, but I was so glad to get it.

[User] Oh yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Was there a gender divide between the men and the women?

[User] Yeah, very much, very much.

[Assistant] Can you talk about that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Five thousand, yeah. Nobody knows that. But in Eritrea. And so he was sent to that base and isolated for months on end. And, you know, it was from the kind of lifestyle they led, so they tended to be a lot sicker with much more serious diseases than we had. Malaria, hepatitis. Ascaris, well ascaris isn't too serious, I guess.

[Assistant] It's what?

[User] It's parasites, worms, the kind that dogs get actually. Tapeworm. Bob had tapeworm. One time he walked in and announced, I have a tapeworm! One time Ed walks in and said, I have syphilis! And of course, the women are just getting fatter and fatter and having this totally boring life. But we've read War and Peace, three times. So that was kind of the, I would say that's sort of the picture of what it was like.

[Assistant] This was surprising. Did you have a relationship with the Peace Corps administrators or the Peace Corps office at all?

[User] Not very much. Very little. We were so remote. One time, the Peace Corps doctor called us and told us that, um, oh, what's the? We had several big disease scares and one was cholera, and one was, I'm losing the word right now. This is a senior moment here.

[Assistant] That's why we have to get your interview now.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's parasites, worms, the kind that dogs get actually. Tapeworm. Bob had tapeworm. One time he walked in and announced, I have a tapeworm! One time Ed walks in and said, I have syphilis! And of course, the women are just getting fatter and fatter and having this totally boring life. But we've read War and Peace, three times. So that was kind of the, I would say that's sort of the picture of what it was like.

[Assistant] This was surprising. Did you have a relationship with the Peace Corps administrators or the Peace Corps office at all?

[User] Not very much. Very little. We were so remote. One time, the Peace Corps doctor called us and told us that, um, oh, what's the? We had several big disease scares and one was cholera, and one was, I'm losing the word right now. This is a senior moment here.

[Assistant] That's why we have to get your interview now.

[User] Yeah, right. Um. It's what you get from cows. Bristles. It's carried by cows.

[Assistant] Mad cow disease is all I know but that was way before that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not very much. Very little. We were so remote. One time, the Peace Corps doctor called us and told us that, um, oh, what's the? We had several big disease scares and one was cholera, and one was, I'm losing the word right now. This is a senior moment here.

[Assistant] That's why we have to get your interview now.

[User] Yeah, right. Um. It's what you get from cows. Bristles. It's carried by cows.

[Assistant] Mad cow disease is all I know but that was way before that.

[User] This is before mad cow disease. Anyway, it's very serious. Anyway, our Peace Corps doctor called us once and said, all right, there's a big epidemic. You've got to be really careful. This can be spread very easily. You know, that kind of thing.

[Assistant] So you didn't have to go into the Peace Corps office periodically for shots and stuff like that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, right. Um. It's what you get from cows. Bristles. It's carried by cows.

[Assistant] Mad cow disease is all I know but that was way before that.

[User] This is before mad cow disease. Anyway, it's very serious. Anyway, our Peace Corps doctor called us once and said, all right, there's a big epidemic. You've got to be really careful. This can be spread very easily. You know, that kind of thing.

[Assistant] So you didn't have to go into the Peace Corps office periodically for shots and stuff like that?

[User] Um, no, because it was so, so, so far away. My roommate gave me rabies shots, like every six months she gave me a rabies shot and all other stuff, you know?

[Assistant] Gamma globulin? We got those.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This is before mad cow disease. Anyway, it's very serious. Anyway, our Peace Corps doctor called us once and said, all right, there's a big epidemic. You've got to be really careful. This can be spread very easily. You know, that kind of thing.

[Assistant] So you didn't have to go into the Peace Corps office periodically for shots and stuff like that?

[User] Um, no, because it was so, so, so far away. My roommate gave me rabies shots, like every six months she gave me a rabies shot and all other stuff, you know?

[Assistant] Gamma globulin? We got those.

[User] Yeah, just we did it locally because I was at a medical college and I had a roommate who was a nurse. So my nurse roommate gave me everything.

[Assistant] So in the time you were there, they didn't call all the volunteers together for a conference or to do anything?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, no, because it was so, so, so far away. My roommate gave me rabies shots, like every six months she gave me a rabies shot and all other stuff, you know?

[Assistant] Gamma globulin? We got those.

[User] Yeah, just we did it locally because I was at a medical college and I had a roommate who was a nurse. So my nurse roommate gave me everything.

[Assistant] So in the time you were there, they didn't call all the volunteers together for a conference or to do anything?

[User] No. No.

[Assistant] So then some of those volunteers you never saw again, that you saw during the training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, just we did it locally because I was at a medical college and I had a roommate who was a nurse. So my nurse roommate gave me everything.

[Assistant] So in the time you were there, they didn't call all the volunteers together for a conference or to do anything?

[User] No. No.

[Assistant] So then some of those volunteers you never saw again, that you saw during the training?

[User] Right, right. That's right. Yeah, I saw them at a reunion recently and I vaguely remember some of them from the initial training.

[Assistant] How would you describe your relationships with your students?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I don't ever remember. No, there were no faculty meetings at all. I really, in retrospect, you know, it seems very odd to me now as an academic. I didn't know what the world was like. I was just a kid and this is my first job. But I, my guess now is that the business about the CIA and so forth, I mean, I think they really wanted to keep us pretty isolated.

[Assistant] Yeah. Did Mary feel that way too?

[User] I think so. She was in the ward and she was interacting with people, but I think all of us are, our main. Her main friend was a doctor, a British doctor. You know, so.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Was that, um, living with Mary, was that a nice setup, was it nice to have that or what was that like?

[User] Yeah, it was pretty good, I guess. Eventually, we actually went our separate ways, and I. She moved on campus with one of the doctors, and I went to Mussolini's officers’ quarters, which I loved. They were these nice apartments and we always had hot water there. We always had water.

[Assistant] That's also, yeah, one thing, did you have a bathroom?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, we really didn't have any way. I guess we could have emailed each, or not emailed. Yes, right? I guess we could have written letters to each other. Well, no. The people in the mountains we couldn't have written letters to, because their mail they had to get in Gondar, you know. My roommate had friends among the nurses in other towns that I think she used to write letters to.

[Assistant] So letter writing was it.

[User] Yeah, I think letter writing was pretty much it.

[Assistant] Nothing with telegrams?

[User] I suppose they existed, but I never used any. Yeah.

[Assistant] Tell me about getting letters from home. Who wrote to you, what was that like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I think letter writing was pretty much it.

[Assistant] Nothing with telegrams?

[User] I suppose they existed, but I never used any. Yeah.

[Assistant] Tell me about getting letters from home. Who wrote to you, what was that like?

[User] Oh, my mother was the one who wrote. And um, and yeah, that was really, of course, very important. Packages were even better. Once in a while I'd get a package. My parents sent me a fruitcake at Christmas, which cost them a fortune to send. Yeah. You know, things like packages were really important and letters were really important. But I think I really enjoyed writing letters, and I think it really, um, I think, like I say, I think that introspection, reflection, reflecting on what Peace Corps was like, what I was going through, trying to share the experiences.

[Assistant] So you pretty regularly kept a journal?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I suppose they existed, but I never used any. Yeah.

[Assistant] Tell me about getting letters from home. Who wrote to you, what was that like?

[User] Oh, my mother was the one who wrote. And um, and yeah, that was really, of course, very important. Packages were even better. Once in a while I'd get a package. My parents sent me a fruitcake at Christmas, which cost them a fortune to send. Yeah. You know, things like packages were really important and letters were really important. But I think I really enjoyed writing letters, and I think it really, um, I think, like I say, I think that introspection, reflection, reflecting on what Peace Corps was like, what I was going through, trying to share the experiences.

[Assistant] So you pretty regularly kept a journal?

[User] Oh, I would, not every day, you know, but definitely, definitely kept a journal. Yeah.

[Assistant] Have you reread it since you've been home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, my mother was the one who wrote. And um, and yeah, that was really, of course, very important. Packages were even better. Once in a while I'd get a package. My parents sent me a fruitcake at Christmas, which cost them a fortune to send. Yeah. You know, things like packages were really important and letters were really important. But I think I really enjoyed writing letters, and I think it really, um, I think, like I say, I think that introspection, reflection, reflecting on what Peace Corps was like, what I was going through, trying to share the experiences.

[Assistant] So you pretty regularly kept a journal?

[User] Oh, I would, not every day, you know, but definitely, definitely kept a journal. Yeah.

[Assistant] Have you reread it since you've been home?

[User] I don't think so.

[Assistant] Did your family keep your letters. Do you have them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, I would, not every day, you know, but definitely, definitely kept a journal. Yeah.

[Assistant] Have you reread it since you've been home?

[User] I don't think so.

[Assistant] Did your family keep your letters. Do you have them?

[User] Yeah, they did.

[Assistant] Do you have them now?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't think so.

[Assistant] Did your family keep your letters. Do you have them?

[User] Yeah, they did.

[Assistant] Do you have them now?

[User] Yeah, right. Well, no, they, my mom still has them. Yeah, my mother still has the letter. Yeah, I'm really glad she did that. Yeah, I'm really glad.

[Assistant] And you haven't read from them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, they did.

[Assistant] Do you have them now?

[User] Yeah, right. Well, no, they, my mom still has them. Yeah, my mother still has the letter. Yeah, I'm really glad she did that. Yeah, I'm really glad.

[Assistant] And you haven't read from them.

[User] No, I haven't. It would be fun to read them. Yeah.

[Assistant] Um, and so once you got to Ethiopia, your mother kept up with you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I haven't. It would be fun to read them. Yeah.

[Assistant] Um, and so once you got to Ethiopia, your mother kept up with you.

[User] Oh yeah, yeah, she was sending me blouses and fruitcake. Letters. Yeah. And I had another friend in New York who had been a housemate in college, and she would send me things like, um, Bon Appétit magazines, you know, things like that. And it was sort of a version of Bon Appétit, I don't know that it was. It wasn't real Bon Appétit, but and I would try to cook these things, which was really fun. It's extremely high altitude, about three times the altitude of Denver, you know, so it was really a challenge to do things like make a soufflé.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, you'd keep cutting back, cutting back, cutting back on the leavening, any baking soda or anything. But at a point, for the altitude we were at, you'd be at a negative. And so it was really tricky to try to figure out, well, how do you deal with this? So there was, you know, to amuse myself, I would experiment with, can I make a soufflé at 10,700 feet, you know? Yeah. So it was, it was. Cooking was very, very interesting there actually.

[Assistant] It's so funny because one of my questions to you was going to be, did you learn to cook there and did you go to market and what was that like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I just cooked them, yeah.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] One per person because they were about the size of a Cornish game hen. Yeah.

[Assistant] And you haven't done that since?

[User] Cooked a live chicken? Yeah, no, no, definitely, definitely not. Definitely a Peace Corps experience. I'm sure Bob is not ringing any chicken necks lately either.

[Assistant] Yeah, really. So you would go to the market and was there food to be had?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] One per person because they were about the size of a Cornish game hen. Yeah.

[Assistant] And you haven't done that since?

[User] Cooked a live chicken? Yeah, no, no, definitely, definitely not. Definitely a Peace Corps experience. I'm sure Bob is not ringing any chicken necks lately either.

[Assistant] Yeah, really. So you would go to the market and was there food to be had?

[User]
Yeah. Oh yeah. We had both an open market and then we had stores in town that were owned, I think, by Muslims mostly. And they actually had even things like peanut butter, which of course, was very expensive. It would be like three ESIs, three Ethiopian dollars. And, you know, it's too much money for us to spend, but you could pretty much get, you could get a lot of stuff. You couldn't get milk there. Milk was very tuberculosis ridden. And so we had to use powdered milk and we had to make it with, um, boiled water and everything. We had to boil our own water and filter it. And, you know, we had to do a lot of, we had to Clorox our lettuce. And, you know, we had to do a lot of stuff to keep from getting sick.

But um, yeah, we had a good situation with food and we got into Ethiopian food very early when we arrived. We told Yanaguchi, we want to eat Ethiopian food. She was a pretty good cook, you know, pretty experienced. We want to Ethiopian food every day for lunch and then we'll eat European food or whatever for the other meal. And so consequently, we got very fat, very fast, by eating two big meals a day.

[Assistant] Did they eat like what you get at a restaurant with the?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah. On campus, it was fine. Yeah, yeah. It was a tiny little campus though, it wasn't like a university here. It was maybe like a real tiny little private college.

[Assistant] What would you say the hardest part of being a Peace Corps volunteer is?

[User]
I think maybe, I think maybe the gender differences and the just, like I like say, not being able to get out, I'm such an outdoor person and just not being able to do the things I was used to doing. I remember when I first got there, I decided. Our landlady had our rooms painted and we picked out the colors. And then I looked at my room and I said, oh, it's way too pale, this yellow. I want a darker paint, I want a darker yellow, and I wanted it like the meskel flower, which was in bloom at that time. It was very bright yellow. So I said, what the heck? I'm just going to go down, buy the paint, and paint it myself. Well, we had these 15 foot ceilings and, you know, I had to stand on top of my wardrobe to do it, but it was no big deal. But these little kids would walk by and they would point and say, oh, ferengi is painting the wall. and they would laugh and they'd roll on the ground, and they'd just think that was the silliest thing. What in the world was I painting a wall for?

And, you know, getting on a bike was a big deal. Taking a walk. Walking with another Peace Corps volunteer would definitely get me labeled as a prostitute. Having anyone stay in my home of the opposite sex would get me labeled as a prostitute. So, you know, it was just so many difficulties like that. I tried to dress conservatively and it was never enough, never ever enough.

[Assistant] You couldn't go out for a beer.

[User] Oh, I didn't even think about it. Yeah, yeah. Right. I mean, even just the simplest thing was very difficult. I think that was the hardest part. Yeah.

[Assistant] And the best part?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
And one time this monkey got loose. And of course, it began to run around our house and tried to get into our house. And we'd been warned by a Peace Corps doctor that monkeys were very often rabid and we really had to worry about rabies a lot. This monkey was trying to get into my bedroom, you know, and we had shutters on our house. So I'm shutting the shutters and then the monkey's very clever. Going to the next window, shutting the shutters, going to the next one, shutting the shutters. And, you know, I was fearing for my life because I knew this monkey, if he got me, he was going to try to kill me. And because he hated humans, he hated humans because he'd been tortured by humans all of his life, you know? And so there were, I mean, there were things like that that just would never, ever, ever, ever happen in an ordinary life, you know.

So every day was interesting, I mean, I was never bored. I may have been lonely, but I was never bored. There was always something interesting. And you know, when I was living alone, these monks used to come and beg. And you know, they were these, they were like out of the Middle Ages. They were these ancient monks begging for food. And you know, there are just so many interesting. Pardon me?

[Assistant] Are they Coptic?

[User] The Coptic monks, yeah, yeah. They are totally, they take vows of poverty. They are like the original monks and, you know, they live on whatever dried injera people toss them. And, you know, so every day was interesting and nothing was boring for me, and it was really an exciting, exciting period. If difficult. I mean, certainly difficult, certainly very painful at times, but very interesting.

[Assistant] Do you think you would have become a TESL teacher if you hadn't?

[User] Oh, no, I'm sure, I'm sure I wouldn't have.

[Assistant] That's had a huge effect.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The Coptic monks, yeah, yeah. They are totally, they take vows of poverty. They are like the original monks and, you know, they live on whatever dried injera people toss them. And, you know, so every day was interesting and nothing was boring for me, and it was really an exciting, exciting period. If difficult. I mean, certainly difficult, certainly very painful at times, but very interesting.

[Assistant] Do you think you would have become a TESL teacher if you hadn't?

[User] Oh, no, I'm sure, I'm sure I wouldn't have.

[Assistant] That's had a huge effect.

[User] Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, I don't think I said that at the beginning of the tape, you know, what I'm doing now. I'm a professor of English as a second language. So yeah.

[Assistant] When you think about the beginning of your service to when you left, what do you think were the biggest changes in you over that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, no, I'm sure, I'm sure I wouldn't have.

[Assistant] That's had a huge effect.

[User] Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, I don't think I said that at the beginning of the tape, you know, what I'm doing now. I'm a professor of English as a second language. So yeah.

[Assistant] When you think about the beginning of your service to when you left, what do you think were the biggest changes in you over that time?

[User] Oh, I just think definitely I matured and definitely I began to be capable of, you know, managing other people, being self-sufficient, figuring out how to do things. You know, like, what do you do when there's no water coming out of the tap? What do you do when your bookshelves are being eaten by termites? I mean, just, OK, what do you do when your kid has, the kid who's working for you has a snake or boils or whatever. And just all kinds of little everyday sorts of adjustments to make. And having to, even teaching, you know, just I felt like I was baptized by fire. You know, it was the kind of experience that probably would take a decade in the States to get. You know, I think most people don't have the kind of experiences that we had at least until their 30s. You know, the kind of managerial experiences and the kind of powerful experiences that we had. Yeah.

[Assistant] You mentioned when we were talking not on tape. Do you want to pause for a second so you can take the dog out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, I don't think I said that at the beginning of the tape, you know, what I'm doing now. I'm a professor of English as a second language. So yeah.

[Assistant] When you think about the beginning of your service to when you left, what do you think were the biggest changes in you over that time?

[User] Oh, I just think definitely I matured and definitely I began to be capable of, you know, managing other people, being self-sufficient, figuring out how to do things. You know, like, what do you do when there's no water coming out of the tap? What do you do when your bookshelves are being eaten by termites? I mean, just, OK, what do you do when your kid has, the kid who's working for you has a snake or boils or whatever. And just all kinds of little everyday sorts of adjustments to make. And having to, even teaching, you know, just I felt like I was baptized by fire. You know, it was the kind of experience that probably would take a decade in the States to get. You know, I think most people don't have the kind of experiences that we had at least until their 30s. You know, the kind of managerial experiences and the kind of powerful experiences that we had. Yeah.

[Assistant] You mentioned when we were talking not on tape. Do you want to pause for a second so you can take the dog out?

[User] Maybe we should. [dog barks] Yes, she says yes. Doggy has to go out.

[Assistant] OK, let's see. Oh, we talked a little bit. You had mentioned to me once that you guys got to go on vacation while you were volunteers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Maybe we should. [dog barks] Yes, she says yes. Doggy has to go out.

[Assistant] OK, let's see. Oh, we talked a little bit. You had mentioned to me once that you guys got to go on vacation while you were volunteers.

[User] Yeah, yeah. It was part of the deal in Ethiopia that they bought your ticket, instead of to Addis Ababa, to Nairobi because it was exactly the same price and everybody wanted to go to Nairobi obviously. So the big tradition there was to take one month off, we got one month vacation and to spend that one month on safari. And typically you went to Kenya, Uganda, and Tanzania. And I was in Uganda the summer that Idi Amin, you know, took over.

[Assistant] Oh! Yeah.

[User] And of course, was totally oblivious to how dangerous it was. And we did hear that three Peace Corps volunteers were killed that summer, and we were kind of. You know, things were starting to happen and we were, you know, but we just assumed it was some aberration. And, you know, we went to Entebbe. And of course, a couple of months after we were in Entebbe, the Peace Corps volunteers were captive, held captive there.

[Assistant] That was close.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah. It was part of the deal in Ethiopia that they bought your ticket, instead of to Addis Ababa, to Nairobi because it was exactly the same price and everybody wanted to go to Nairobi obviously. So the big tradition there was to take one month off, we got one month vacation and to spend that one month on safari. And typically you went to Kenya, Uganda, and Tanzania. And I was in Uganda the summer that Idi Amin, you know, took over.

[Assistant] Oh! Yeah.

[User] And of course, was totally oblivious to how dangerous it was. And we did hear that three Peace Corps volunteers were killed that summer, and we were kind of. You know, things were starting to happen and we were, you know, but we just assumed it was some aberration. And, you know, we went to Entebbe. And of course, a couple of months after we were in Entebbe, the Peace Corps volunteers were captive, held captive there.

[Assistant] That was close.

[User] That was in October. I had been there in July. Yeah. My mother was saying, oh, I'm so glad you're not there now. And I was saying, oh, but that's such a wonderful hotel. If you're going to be held captive, it's a great place. Um. Yeah. Murchison Falls was wonderful. We stayed in a tent and heard the hippos munching at night and the lions roaring and everything. It was fabulous. It was. It's still today is the most fabulous vacation I've ever had in my life. And there were six of us on this and, you know, I'm still in contact with most of those people actually. So a very interesting experience. That's the capital of Uganda at that time was a wonderful, bustling, sophisticated place. And of course, isn't any longer so. It was really interesting to watch the Last King of Scotland.

[Assistant] I think I need to rent that. Yeah, I need to do that. Let's see. And you said you haven't been back to Ethiopia since?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And of course, was totally oblivious to how dangerous it was. And we did hear that three Peace Corps volunteers were killed that summer, and we were kind of. You know, things were starting to happen and we were, you know, but we just assumed it was some aberration. And, you know, we went to Entebbe. And of course, a couple of months after we were in Entebbe, the Peace Corps volunteers were captive, held captive there.

[Assistant] That was close.

[User] That was in October. I had been there in July. Yeah. My mother was saying, oh, I'm so glad you're not there now. And I was saying, oh, but that's such a wonderful hotel. If you're going to be held captive, it's a great place. Um. Yeah. Murchison Falls was wonderful. We stayed in a tent and heard the hippos munching at night and the lions roaring and everything. It was fabulous. It was. It's still today is the most fabulous vacation I've ever had in my life. And there were six of us on this and, you know, I'm still in contact with most of those people actually. So a very interesting experience. That's the capital of Uganda at that time was a wonderful, bustling, sophisticated place. And of course, isn't any longer so. It was really interesting to watch the Last King of Scotland.

[Assistant] I think I need to rent that. Yeah, I need to do that. Let's see. And you said you haven't been back to Ethiopia since?

[User] I haven't been back to Africa at all. No. One of my friends has. One of my friends from Gondar has, and he's told me all about it. So it's really interesting.

[Assistant] Is that in the retirement goals to get there or do you have a desire to get there at this point in your life?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I haven't been back to Africa at all. No. One of my friends has. One of my friends from Gondar has, and he's told me all about it. So it's really interesting.

[Assistant] Is that in the retirement goals to get there or do you have a desire to get there at this point in your life?

[User] I don't know. I have mixed feelings about it, you know. I think it's difficult to go back to places you've been, you know? Yeah. Particularly when I read, I read a book, you know, and I was reading about Dire Dawa in it. It just, I thought I just couldn't bear to go back there and see how it's changed in a negative way. Because when we were there, we were so optimistic. And you know, it was this period where we believed the world was going to change for the better, and it was only going to take a few years. And, you know, these books were coming out, the greening of the world or whatever. And, you know, we were very optimistic and we certainly never, ever, ever, I think, dreamed that things would get worse rather than better because they were pretty bad. You know, how could they get any worse? So I think. But apparently the health colleges are booming. You know, Gondar is a much bigger city. You know, some things have gotten better.

[Assistant] What would you say your biggest achievements were as a PCV?

[User] Well, I don't know that I achieved anything for the people there. I mean, I guess, um, you know, I did a decent job teaching and maybe some of the people who were my students think I did a decent job. I don't know. Mengistu, obviously, is very grateful to Peace Corps in general. His life was certainly enhanced by our presence, and I think for me, the best thing was what it did for me. And, you know, how that's influenced my life.

[Assistant] Are there any things that you have written down that you wanted to make sure you got to talk about?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I don't know that I achieved anything for the people there. I mean, I guess, um, you know, I did a decent job teaching and maybe some of the people who were my students think I did a decent job. I don't know. Mengistu, obviously, is very grateful to Peace Corps in general. His life was certainly enhanced by our presence, and I think for me, the best thing was what it did for me. And, you know, how that's influenced my life.

[Assistant] Are there any things that you have written down that you wanted to make sure you got to talk about?

[User] Oh, probably not. No, I don't think so. No, it's OK.

[Assistant] One of the questions that the Peace Corps asks is to think about your Peace Corps years in light of the three goals of Peace Corps. To think about whether those were part of, you know, how you think about your service. So did you feel like you provided technical assistance? So you already mentioned you did your best teaching.

[User] Yeah, you know, I guess it was OK. Actually, when I left, an Ethiopian took over my job, and so I felt really good about that. I think the job that I was doing actually could have been done by an Ethiopian. Maybe my students got some cultural insights they wouldn't get from an Ethiopian. But other than that.

[Assistant] And that would be cultural in terms of understanding the U.S. in different ways.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, probably not. No, I don't think so. No, it's OK.

[Assistant] One of the questions that the Peace Corps asks is to think about your Peace Corps years in light of the three goals of Peace Corps. To think about whether those were part of, you know, how you think about your service. So did you feel like you provided technical assistance? So you already mentioned you did your best teaching.

[User] Yeah, you know, I guess it was OK. Actually, when I left, an Ethiopian took over my job, and so I felt really good about that. I think the job that I was doing actually could have been done by an Ethiopian. Maybe my students got some cultural insights they wouldn't get from an Ethiopian. But other than that.

[Assistant] And that would be cultural in terms of understanding the U.S. in different ways.

[User] Sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, it was probably interesting for them to have a pink, a pink person as they called me. They said, this one kid would say, miss? What do they call you, white? You are pink. You know, so I think it's always interesting for cultures to have interaction in that way, but I wouldn't say that I gave Ethiopia anything special. I would say they gave me much more.

[Assistant] Um. Have you had students from Ethiopia? Have you had any experiences here where you've been able to call on what you experienced there in your work here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, you know, I guess it was OK. Actually, when I left, an Ethiopian took over my job, and so I felt really good about that. I think the job that I was doing actually could have been done by an Ethiopian. Maybe my students got some cultural insights they wouldn't get from an Ethiopian. But other than that.

[Assistant] And that would be cultural in terms of understanding the U.S. in different ways.

[User] Sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, it was probably interesting for them to have a pink, a pink person as they called me. They said, this one kid would say, miss? What do they call you, white? You are pink. You know, so I think it's always interesting for cultures to have interaction in that way, but I wouldn't say that I gave Ethiopia anything special. I would say they gave me much more.

[Assistant] Um. Have you had students from Ethiopia? Have you had any experiences here where you've been able to call on what you experienced there in your work here?

[User] Interestingly enough, I haven't had very many students from Ethiopia. When I go to D.C. it's really fun because there are tons of Ethiopians and sometimes I, you know, I'll exchange a greeting or so and talk to them. I immediately can spot Ethiopians wherever I go. And I say, oh, you're Ethiopian, are you? Or usually I just go up and say tena yistilin, you know? And interestingly enough, when I gave birth, I was in a, um, afterwards I was in a room in Ames, Iowa, you know, in the hospital. And I looked over and I said, oh yeah, I got an Ethiopian roommate. And she was from Eritrea. I said, you're Ethiopian. She said, well, actually I'm Eritrean, which is, you know, a little sensitive.

[Assistant] Aren't they at war? Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, but it's part of, yeah, part of the whole scene. And so we had fun. We had a lot of fun talking about. And she taught me a lot of interesting things about, you know, what it's like. She said, now when you go home, you don't do a thing for a month. And she warned me against doing dishes or anything. I was supposed to be completely at leisure. And so we had a lot of fun conversations about that. And you know, that was interesting for me because, you know, obviously, and for her too, because I'd had this contact and I was, she didn't feel as isolated as I'm sure she felt she would feel. She probably looked over, said, oh, a white woman, you know, a white American, what am I going to be able to talk to her about? And we ended up talking about all kinds of neat things, you know? But I guess mostly when I go to D.C., I really have had some great conversations with Ethiopians there, and some of whom I actually knew when I was in Ethiopia.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] There's one woman who owns an Ethiopian restaurant who was actually a Peace Corps secretary when we were there. So, yeah, in D.C., it's a different situation. Two of my old Peace Corps friends are there. But here, probably not. And I don't think I've ever had an Ethiopian student the whole time I've taught.

[Assistant] So you've met Yawl?

[User] No, I don't think so. Uh uh. Unless she's the one from Eritrea.

[Assistant] No, she's not. She's definitely not.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There's one woman who owns an Ethiopian restaurant who was actually a Peace Corps secretary when we were there. So, yeah, in D.C., it's a different situation. Two of my old Peace Corps friends are there. But here, probably not. And I don't think I've ever had an Ethiopian student the whole time I've taught.

[Assistant] So you've met Yawl?

[User] No, I don't think so. Uh uh. Unless she's the one from Eritrea.

[Assistant] No, she's not. She's definitely not.

[User] Oh, I did meet one Ethiopian here. That's right. I did. Yeah, yeah, I did meet one Ethiopian couple of names since I've been here. And yeah, I mean, you know, you have some rich conversations that you wouldn't have otherwise, but no students.

[Assistant] Have you kept up with, you said there was a Peace Corps reunion, your group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don't think so. Uh uh. Unless she's the one from Eritrea.

[Assistant] No, she's not. She's definitely not.

[User] Oh, I did meet one Ethiopian here. That's right. I did. Yeah, yeah, I did meet one Ethiopian couple of names since I've been here. And yeah, I mean, you know, you have some rich conversations that you wouldn't have otherwise, but no students.

[Assistant] Have you kept up with, you said there was a Peace Corps reunion, your group?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you've kept up in some ways with those.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, I did meet one Ethiopian here. That's right. I did. Yeah, yeah, I did meet one Ethiopian couple of names since I've been here. And yeah, I mean, you know, you have some rich conversations that you wouldn't have otherwise, but no students.

[Assistant] Have you kept up with, you said there was a Peace Corps reunion, your group?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you've kept up in some ways with those.

[User] Yeah. Well, it was kind of a, I think it was the internet that enabled that. People, when that site was started, people put, and in fact, that's how Mengistu got in touch with me. And then we decided, somebody in D.C., again, another Peace Corps volunteer from our group in D.C., decided he would have a reunion. So yeah. That was fun. That was interesting.

[Assistant] That was when?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you've kept up in some ways with those.

[User] Yeah. Well, it was kind of a, I think it was the internet that enabled that. People, when that site was started, people put, and in fact, that's how Mengistu got in touch with me. And then we decided, somebody in D.C., again, another Peace Corps volunteer from our group in D.C., decided he would have a reunion. So yeah. That was fun. That was interesting.

[Assistant] That was when?

[User] That was last year, actually.

[Assistant] It was the first one?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was last year, actually.

[Assistant] It was the first one?

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah, yeah. So, of course, all these young, handsome people are now old and not so handsome anymore.

[Assistant] It's really something.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah, yeah. So, of course, all these young, handsome people are now old and not so handsome anymore.

[Assistant] It's really something.

[User] And you know, several people are gone from our group.

[Assistant] Are you a member of the returned volunteers, RPCV?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah. So, of course, all these young, handsome people are now old and not so handsome anymore.

[Assistant] It's really something.

[User] And you know, several people are gone from our group.

[Assistant] Are you a member of the returned volunteers, RPCV?

[User] I don't think I am. You know, I get mailings. Yeah.

[Assistant] Do you think of yourself now, and what would you say, can you articulate what you think being a volunteer did most for you? If you think of yourself now? So you talked about it at the end of service, but what's it meant in your life?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And you know, several people are gone from our group.

[Assistant] Are you a member of the returned volunteers, RPCV?

[User] I don't think I am. You know, I get mailings. Yeah.

[Assistant] Do you think of yourself now, and what would you say, can you articulate what you think being a volunteer did most for you? If you think of yourself now? So you talked about it at the end of service, but what's it meant in your life?

[User] Yeah, I think it, I think it gives you confidence. I think it gives you a perspective on the world. And I think, in fact, I often. I often say to my husband that I wish George Bush, you know, had been in Peace Corps. I think he'd be a different, different person. Because I think a lot of people just don't get it. You know, they just don't get the world.

[Assistant] I think now of the global food crisis and how much of it we've caused.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't think I am. You know, I get mailings. Yeah.

[Assistant] Do you think of yourself now, and what would you say, can you articulate what you think being a volunteer did most for you? If you think of yourself now? So you talked about it at the end of service, but what's it meant in your life?

[User] Yeah, I think it, I think it gives you confidence. I think it gives you a perspective on the world. And I think, in fact, I often. I often say to my husband that I wish George Bush, you know, had been in Peace Corps. I think he'd be a different, different person. Because I think a lot of people just don't get it. You know, they just don't get the world.

[Assistant] I think now of the global food crisis and how much of it we've caused.

[User] Right, yeah.

[Assistant] And there's no sense of what that means. I mean, it's awful hearing them [inaudible] but it's so wide scale in other parts in Africa and Haiti and the government, there's no conception of what that means.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I think it, I think it gives you confidence. I think it gives you a perspective on the world. And I think, in fact, I often. I often say to my husband that I wish George Bush, you know, had been in Peace Corps. I think he'd be a different, different person. Because I think a lot of people just don't get it. You know, they just don't get the world.

[Assistant] I think now of the global food crisis and how much of it we've caused.

[User] Right, yeah.

[Assistant] And there's no sense of what that means. I mean, it's awful hearing them [inaudible] but it's so wide scale in other parts in Africa and Haiti and the government, there's no conception of what that means.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. And I really think, you know, if you experienced it firsthand, it makes a huge difference. And just the, I think the whole notion of realizing that people don't think about the world in the same way. You know, my students would say, how can you talk about loving french fries? You can talk about loving God or loving your father, but how can you talk about loving french fries? I think just being confronted with these different ways of looking at the world at a fairly young age, it's really important because it just makes you realize, hey, you know, there's another way to look at things. It's not. It's not necessarily the way I look at things. So I think being kind of jerked out of my own way of thinking and, whoa, never looked at it that way. You know, that sort of feeling was really important for me to have that experience at a young age. You know, that maybe there were different perspectives.

[Assistant] So a 21 year old, not your daughter, comes to you and says, I'm thinking of joining the Peace Corps, Dr. Vann, what do you think?