[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, there was at least a little Protestant sect. And that was that was the guy with a fancy store and the hotel where, you know, people stayed when they came into town. Had a little Protestant church, which I didn't attend. But I did finagle that we could borrow the organ and move it over to this incredibly old slave construct of the village, I was at least three hundred and fifty years old, so it was a really old slave type gold mining town. And so they had this church that had been abandoned by the priest as soon as his mother died. One of these guys have made a vow to his mother that he would be a priest, but when she died, he was gone because he was the English speaker. He taught English in the high school, he ran the high school. So that's what they asked me to teach high school because they had to have an English teacher, so I tried. Uh, that was really unique. There was a gorgeous old hand-carved, wood carved Catholic Church and have. So we got to play the play the organ for weddings over there. I used to. I didn't know anything about playing bass, so I just played the same notes at two different levels.

[Assistant] That was for Catholic?

[User] Yeah, that was for Catholic wedding.

[Assistant] I did the same thing when we went to the big city, like once a month, I stayed at a. It was, I guess, a monastery or some Catholic. You know, there were brothers from Italy there and there were some. There's an American air base in the city and they came to the Catholic Church for service. But none of the guys there spoke English. So my father is a minister, so I just get out there and conducted the Catholic services and in return.

[User] And translated everything into English?

[Assistant] Yeah, in return for room and board.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, that was for Catholic wedding.

[Assistant] I did the same thing when we went to the big city, like once a month, I stayed at a. It was, I guess, a monastery or some Catholic. You know, there were brothers from Italy there and there were some. There's an American air base in the city and they came to the Catholic Church for service. But none of the guys there spoke English. So my father is a minister, so I just get out there and conducted the Catholic services and in return.

[User] And translated everything into English?

[Assistant] Yeah, in return for room and board.

[User] Makes do, crosses barriers. What was it? What was the original question?

[Assistant] Um, I don't know about, uh, I guess, your relationships with people of the country and living conditions, typical day.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And translated everything into English?

[Assistant] Yeah, in return for room and board.

[User] Makes do, crosses barriers. What was it? What was the original question?

[Assistant] Um, I don't know about, uh, I guess, your relationships with people of the country and living conditions, typical day.

[User] Yeah, the typical day. Well, there really, there really wasn't much of it, some planning and some hanging out, visiting them and waiting for the car to be fixed. But we would go out, we would do a lot of deliveries because it was like a month, every month we'd have all the different things.

[Assistant] So you had a schedule?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Makes do, crosses barriers. What was it? What was the original question?

[Assistant] Um, I don't know about, uh, I guess, your relationships with people of the country and living conditions, typical day.

[User] Yeah, the typical day. Well, there really, there really wasn't much of it, some planning and some hanging out, visiting them and waiting for the car to be fixed. But we would go out, we would do a lot of deliveries because it was like a month, every month we'd have all the different things.

[Assistant] So you had a schedule?

[User] We had a regular, pretty regular schedule to go out to these. I think there were, we probably had six different sites in the sticks. Some were overnight because it was such a far. And those were incredible adventures in and of themselves because there are no roads. There were no roads, and in the rainy season the bus would come in and I would go for a week or two weeks. The bus couldn't get through because bridges were out. The bus was the only connection to the exterior and we would go out into these places and get on barges and go across river on barges and go up these crevasses where you thought the Jeep was going to turn upside down. The road you'd have to go down and go through water because the whatever, whatever that was washed out, there's huge crevices of wash outs all the time, the road system.

[Assistant] Well were you prohibited from driving yourself?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, the typical day. Well, there really, there really wasn't much of it, some planning and some hanging out, visiting them and waiting for the car to be fixed. But we would go out, we would do a lot of deliveries because it was like a month, every month we'd have all the different things.

[Assistant] So you had a schedule?

[User] We had a regular, pretty regular schedule to go out to these. I think there were, we probably had six different sites in the sticks. Some were overnight because it was such a far. And those were incredible adventures in and of themselves because there are no roads. There were no roads, and in the rainy season the bus would come in and I would go for a week or two weeks. The bus couldn't get through because bridges were out. The bus was the only connection to the exterior and we would go out into these places and get on barges and go across river on barges and go up these crevasses where you thought the Jeep was going to turn upside down. The road you'd have to go down and go through water because the whatever, whatever that was washed out, there's huge crevices of wash outs all the time, the road system.

[Assistant] Well were you prohibited from driving yourself?

[User] No, I just, I couldn't drive stick.

[Assistant] So some of the other people in your group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had a regular, pretty regular schedule to go out to these. I think there were, we probably had six different sites in the sticks. Some were overnight because it was such a far. And those were incredible adventures in and of themselves because there are no roads. There were no roads, and in the rainy season the bus would come in and I would go for a week or two weeks. The bus couldn't get through because bridges were out. The bus was the only connection to the exterior and we would go out into these places and get on barges and go across river on barges and go up these crevasses where you thought the Jeep was going to turn upside down. The road you'd have to go down and go through water because the whatever, whatever that was washed out, there's huge crevices of wash outs all the time, the road system.

[Assistant] Well were you prohibited from driving yourself?

[User] No, I just, I couldn't drive stick.

[Assistant] So some of the other people in your group?

[User] This one guy was hired as a.

[Assistant] Oh, some of them did their own.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I just, I couldn't drive stick.

[Assistant] So some of the other people in your group?

[User] This one guy was hired as a.

[Assistant] Oh, some of them did their own.

[User] I have a feeling I just got a Jeep because of where I was, because of the rural, very rural nature where I was. Other places had paved streets and sidewalks. And those people would come into our meetings when we'd have our gathering meetings in the capital. I mean, they'd have bandages on their arms, they'd have all these diseases and illnesses, and I never got sick at all.

[Assistant] And you were probably in the remotest part.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This one guy was hired as a.

[Assistant] Oh, some of them did their own.

[User] I have a feeling I just got a Jeep because of where I was, because of the rural, very rural nature where I was. Other places had paved streets and sidewalks. And those people would come into our meetings when we'd have our gathering meetings in the capital. I mean, they'd have bandages on their arms, they'd have all these diseases and illnesses, and I never got sick at all.

[Assistant] And you were probably in the remotest part.

[User] I was, by far. One of the Peace Corps volunteers came to visit me once, took the bus all the way up. They did refer to my place as fim do mundo, which is the end of the world. And that was just a general assumption. So I was the pension had no ceilings in it so that you could hear from room to room. So I woke up after Sarah got there. She was in her room. And she says, Steve, I can't see. Whatever happened is there she had bites all over her eyes. So she was, her eyes had swollen shut, she couldn't see. She was tough, but nobody came to visit me after that, after Sarah's trip. And I had to take her to the next town where there was a doctor.

[Assistant] So she got it in your town?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I have a feeling I just got a Jeep because of where I was, because of the rural, very rural nature where I was. Other places had paved streets and sidewalks. And those people would come into our meetings when we'd have our gathering meetings in the capital. I mean, they'd have bandages on their arms, they'd have all these diseases and illnesses, and I never got sick at all.

[Assistant] And you were probably in the remotest part.

[User] I was, by far. One of the Peace Corps volunteers came to visit me once, took the bus all the way up. They did refer to my place as fim do mundo, which is the end of the world. And that was just a general assumption. So I was the pension had no ceilings in it so that you could hear from room to room. So I woke up after Sarah got there. She was in her room. And she says, Steve, I can't see. Whatever happened is there she had bites all over her eyes. So she was, her eyes had swollen shut, she couldn't see. She was tough, but nobody came to visit me after that, after Sarah's trip. And I had to take her to the next town where there was a doctor.

[Assistant] So she got it in your town?

[User] Yeah, yeah. Overnight, yeah, whatever attacked or attacked her. So the next day we had to pay to have somebody drive us over by Jeep, to the hospital, to the nearest town, which was 90 miles away, I think.

[Assistant] So what about your relationship with the PC staff and other PCVs and then maybe going to work time versus leisure time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah. Overnight, yeah, whatever attacked or attacked her. So the next day we had to pay to have somebody drive us over by Jeep, to the hospital, to the nearest town, which was 90 miles away, I think.

[Assistant] So what about your relationship with the PC staff and other PCVs and then maybe going to work time versus leisure time?

[User] Well, since there were no other PCVs at my town, so there was no issues there. I think the director came to visit me once and it was quite fluid. Whether I'm fantasizing that or not, I'm not sure. So we really, we had a great, we were a good cohesive group. I think it's a very caring group, a sense of supporting each other. There wasn't a lot of, there was very little conflict. Everybody wanted to tell stories about their own place. It's fascinating. For me, it was fascinating to see some of these women who may not have been the prettiest women in the world who just sort of blossomed as females in the Brazilian culture. That was really one of the interesting things that I saw with these women. They just sort of suddenly their bodies were so appreciated that they just sort of blossomed as women. Men didn't blossom in particular. There were some that had problems. One woman had all sorts of diseases when we first got there, got illnesses and finally they shipped her home. It could have been pretty, pretty psychosomatic, I think really bubbly young woman. Husband and wife got a divorce while they were there.

[Assistant] While they were there?

[User] Yeah, they separated while they were there, I guess, and all. But otherwise, there were some very close friendships that developed over at the time.

[Assistant] So did you like go to the big city once a month or something like that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, since there were no other PCVs at my town, so there was no issues there. I think the director came to visit me once and it was quite fluid. Whether I'm fantasizing that or not, I'm not sure. So we really, we had a great, we were a good cohesive group. I think it's a very caring group, a sense of supporting each other. There wasn't a lot of, there was very little conflict. Everybody wanted to tell stories about their own place. It's fascinating. For me, it was fascinating to see some of these women who may not have been the prettiest women in the world who just sort of blossomed as females in the Brazilian culture. That was really one of the interesting things that I saw with these women. They just sort of suddenly their bodies were so appreciated that they just sort of blossomed as women. Men didn't blossom in particular. There were some that had problems. One woman had all sorts of diseases when we first got there, got illnesses and finally they shipped her home. It could have been pretty, pretty psychosomatic, I think really bubbly young woman. Husband and wife got a divorce while they were there.

[Assistant] While they were there?

[User] Yeah, they separated while they were there, I guess, and all. But otherwise, there were some very close friendships that developed over at the time.

[Assistant] So did you like go to the big city once a month or something like that?

[User] No, I didn't feel compelled to do that. I just came in when we were supposed to come in. I couldn't think of a good excuse to go. Plus, for me, it was an eight-hour bus ride and overnight in one town, the next bus ride, the three hour bus ride to the capital city. So it is a two day trip and a long, long bus ride. And that was discouraging. I would be happier in my own little bed.

[Assistant] But what about work time versus leisure time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, they separated while they were there, I guess, and all. But otherwise, there were some very close friendships that developed over at the time.

[Assistant] So did you like go to the big city once a month or something like that?

[User] No, I didn't feel compelled to do that. I just came in when we were supposed to come in. I couldn't think of a good excuse to go. Plus, for me, it was an eight-hour bus ride and overnight in one town, the next bus ride, the three hour bus ride to the capital city. So it is a two day trip and a long, long bus ride. And that was discouraging. I would be happier in my own little bed.

[Assistant] But what about work time versus leisure time?

[User] Well, I thought I was always working in reality when you were representing your country. I was always working. I didn't have a lot of leisure time. I organized, bought and organized the volleyball. So we had, we played volleyball for the youth group, the young people. We had volleyball every day.

[Assistant] So you introduced volleyball, pretty much.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I didn't feel compelled to do that. I just came in when we were supposed to come in. I couldn't think of a good excuse to go. Plus, for me, it was an eight-hour bus ride and overnight in one town, the next bus ride, the three hour bus ride to the capital city. So it is a two day trip and a long, long bus ride. And that was discouraging. I would be happier in my own little bed.

[Assistant] But what about work time versus leisure time?

[User] Well, I thought I was always working in reality when you were representing your country. I was always working. I didn't have a lot of leisure time. I organized, bought and organized the volleyball. So we had, we played volleyball for the youth group, the young people. We had volleyball every day.

[Assistant] So you introduced volleyball, pretty much.

[User] I wouldn't say introduce. I facilitated it and made it possible to get the nets and the ball and brought that back with me. So that, or maybe we had the net and I just had to get the ball, I don't know. I made it possible.

[Assistant] In Turkey, all of the guys used to hang around in the coffee shop and gamble all day, so I figured, you know, get them outside, get them some fresh air and, you know, get them doing something physical. So I actually did get them to get out and play volleyball, and they started gambling on the volleyball games. So what are you gonna do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I thought I was always working in reality when you were representing your country. I was always working. I didn't have a lot of leisure time. I organized, bought and organized the volleyball. So we had, we played volleyball for the youth group, the young people. We had volleyball every day.

[Assistant] So you introduced volleyball, pretty much.

[User] I wouldn't say introduce. I facilitated it and made it possible to get the nets and the ball and brought that back with me. So that, or maybe we had the net and I just had to get the ball, I don't know. I made it possible.

[Assistant] In Turkey, all of the guys used to hang around in the coffee shop and gamble all day, so I figured, you know, get them outside, get them some fresh air and, you know, get them doing something physical. So I actually did get them to get out and play volleyball, and they started gambling on the volleyball games. So what are you gonna do?

[User] You can take the Turk out of the coffee shop, but not... But I guess I never thought there was a leisure time.

[Assistant] Oh, sure. So you were pretty much on full time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I wouldn't say introduce. I facilitated it and made it possible to get the nets and the ball and brought that back with me. So that, or maybe we had the net and I just had to get the ball, I don't know. I made it possible.

[Assistant] In Turkey, all of the guys used to hang around in the coffee shop and gamble all day, so I figured, you know, get them outside, get them some fresh air and, you know, get them doing something physical. So I actually did get them to get out and play volleyball, and they started gambling on the volleyball games. So what are you gonna do?

[User] You can take the Turk out of the coffee shop, but not... But I guess I never thought there was a leisure time.

[Assistant] Oh, sure. So you were pretty much on full time.

[User] I really appreciated the, especially during the rainy season, the rainy season, but there was nothing to do.

[Assistant] Did you have that book locker?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You can take the Turk out of the coffee shop, but not... But I guess I never thought there was a leisure time.

[Assistant] Oh, sure. So you were pretty much on full time.

[User] I really appreciated the, especially during the rainy season, the rainy season, but there was nothing to do.

[Assistant] Did you have that book locker?

[User] I was just going to refer to the book locker. You know, the book locker was a life saver during the rainy season. When it rained, there was just nothing happened, and I always thought, people think that people in the tropics are just lazy. But I think I learned with the rainy season. You just you can't do anything, and it has nothing against, you know, motivation or how enthusiastic you are. It was just, you know, mud up to your knees now. Awful things.

[Assistant] How do you think life and work changed over the months? And then you can reflect on maybe the end of your first year, you know, things, how you thought things went the first year, you know, what were your joys and woes? Health problems, vacation, travel.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I really appreciated the, especially during the rainy season, the rainy season, but there was nothing to do.

[Assistant] Did you have that book locker?

[User] I was just going to refer to the book locker. You know, the book locker was a life saver during the rainy season. When it rained, there was just nothing happened, and I always thought, people think that people in the tropics are just lazy. But I think I learned with the rainy season. You just you can't do anything, and it has nothing against, you know, motivation or how enthusiastic you are. It was just, you know, mud up to your knees now. Awful things.

[Assistant] How do you think life and work changed over the months? And then you can reflect on maybe the end of your first year, you know, things, how you thought things went the first year, you know, what were your joys and woes? Health problems, vacation, travel.

[User] I don't think anything. I have no sense of how things changed over a two-year period, so if you can get more integrated into the community, have more context, develop some public trust.

[Assistant] So you got along well with your driver?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was just going to refer to the book locker. You know, the book locker was a life saver during the rainy season. When it rained, there was just nothing happened, and I always thought, people think that people in the tropics are just lazy. But I think I learned with the rainy season. You just you can't do anything, and it has nothing against, you know, motivation or how enthusiastic you are. It was just, you know, mud up to your knees now. Awful things.

[Assistant] How do you think life and work changed over the months? And then you can reflect on maybe the end of your first year, you know, things, how you thought things went the first year, you know, what were your joys and woes? Health problems, vacation, travel.

[User] I don't think anything. I have no sense of how things changed over a two-year period, so if you can get more integrated into the community, have more context, develop some public trust.

[Assistant] So you got along well with your driver?

[User] Yeah, yeah, well, the money, which was a mistake. I learned that. I learned a few things about life in the future, do not loan money, do not. But I was a naive 22-year-old. I finally got along pretty well. I don't think. We had a great parties, festivals in the town, so great square dancing. It's a little participate in all that stuff. But it was a very isolated town, so they did a lot of, there's just a lot of things that they did together as a group of people. I was sort of careful about who I allied myself with politically because there were factions at the top, obviously. Good relationships with everybody. Much more relationships with the kids in town because those were the right ones to influence I thought.

[Assistant] Were you involved with any women at all?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't think anything. I have no sense of how things changed over a two-year period, so if you can get more integrated into the community, have more context, develop some public trust.

[Assistant] So you got along well with your driver?

[User] Yeah, yeah, well, the money, which was a mistake. I learned that. I learned a few things about life in the future, do not loan money, do not. But I was a naive 22-year-old. I finally got along pretty well. I don't think. We had a great parties, festivals in the town, so great square dancing. It's a little participate in all that stuff. But it was a very isolated town, so they did a lot of, there's just a lot of things that they did together as a group of people. I was sort of careful about who I allied myself with politically because there were factions at the top, obviously. Good relationships with everybody. Much more relationships with the kids in town because those were the right ones to influence I thought.

[Assistant] Were you involved with any women at all?

[User] No, no, no. But that's that could be a disaster. I was living with three women at the time. Dona Viday, her widowed daughter and her, another widowed daughter and another daughter. Four women.

[Assistant] At the pension?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah, well, the money, which was a mistake. I learned that. I learned a few things about life in the future, do not loan money, do not. But I was a naive 22-year-old. I finally got along pretty well. I don't think. We had a great parties, festivals in the town, so great square dancing. It's a little participate in all that stuff. But it was a very isolated town, so they did a lot of, there's just a lot of things that they did together as a group of people. I was sort of careful about who I allied myself with politically because there were factions at the top, obviously. Good relationships with everybody. Much more relationships with the kids in town because those were the right ones to influence I thought.

[Assistant] Were you involved with any women at all?

[User] No, no, no. But that's that could be a disaster. I was living with three women at the time. Dona Viday, her widowed daughter and her, another widowed daughter and another daughter. Four women.

[Assistant] At the pension?

[User] Pension, yeah. That was enough, I'm sure, the information about me was all over town.

[Assistant] Ok. What about vacation and travel?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, no. But that's that could be a disaster. I was living with three women at the time. Dona Viday, her widowed daughter and her, another widowed daughter and another daughter. Four women.

[Assistant] At the pension?

[User] Pension, yeah. That was enough, I'm sure, the information about me was all over town.

[Assistant] Ok. What about vacation and travel?

[User] Yeah, we did. The guy in the next town, town next to me. Took off for two, what'd you get, two weeks or so. Took a bus trip from Brasilia, which was near to both of us, from Brasilia all the way up to the Amazon. So we took a great bus trip. It's a long bus trip, but.

[Assistant] So you stayed right within Brazil?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Pension, yeah. That was enough, I'm sure, the information about me was all over town.

[Assistant] Ok. What about vacation and travel?

[User] Yeah, we did. The guy in the next town, town next to me. Took off for two, what'd you get, two weeks or so. Took a bus trip from Brasilia, which was near to both of us, from Brasilia all the way up to the Amazon. So we took a great bus trip. It's a long bus trip, but.

[Assistant] So you stayed right within Brazil?

[User] Yeah, most of the time I stayed in Brazil. I went to Carnival one time.

[Assistant] Was there more vacation than two weeks?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we did. The guy in the next town, town next to me. Took off for two, what'd you get, two weeks or so. Took a bus trip from Brasilia, which was near to both of us, from Brasilia all the way up to the Amazon. So we took a great bus trip. It's a long bus trip, but.

[Assistant] So you stayed right within Brazil?

[User] Yeah, most of the time I stayed in Brazil. I went to Carnival one time.

[Assistant] Was there more vacation than two weeks?

[User] Yeah, yeah, I think we had four weeks. I went to Carnival for very wet, wet Carnival. It was fabulous, to say the least. And then I, one year I flew up to, uh, I flew to Venezuela and met my future wife in Aruba.

[Assistant] You just happened to meet her there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, most of the time I stayed in Brazil. I went to Carnival one time.

[Assistant] Was there more vacation than two weeks?

[User] Yeah, yeah, I think we had four weeks. I went to Carnival for very wet, wet Carnival. It was fabulous, to say the least. And then I, one year I flew up to, uh, I flew to Venezuela and met my future wife in Aruba.

[Assistant] You just happened to meet her there.

[User] She just happened to tell me that where we were meeting, the arrangements. That created problems because I was having problems getting out of the country, when we got to leave because I changed my status as far as visas and things. That was a point where I didn't think I was going to leave. Somebody fixed something somewhere, so. We got to leave the country. And then a group of us traveled back through the rest of South America and went down to Buenos Aires, and then flew to Lima and Cusco. I went to Machu Picchu. And then took a train from, we went to La Paz. From La Paz we took a train across Lake Titicaca to Peru and Peru to Machu Picchu.

[Assistant] Did you have any illnesses at all? Not really, it sounds like.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah, I think we had four weeks. I went to Carnival for very wet, wet Carnival. It was fabulous, to say the least. And then I, one year I flew up to, uh, I flew to Venezuela and met my future wife in Aruba.

[Assistant] You just happened to meet her there.

[User] She just happened to tell me that where we were meeting, the arrangements. That created problems because I was having problems getting out of the country, when we got to leave because I changed my status as far as visas and things. That was a point where I didn't think I was going to leave. Somebody fixed something somewhere, so. We got to leave the country. And then a group of us traveled back through the rest of South America and went down to Buenos Aires, and then flew to Lima and Cusco. I went to Machu Picchu. And then took a train from, we went to La Paz. From La Paz we took a train across Lake Titicaca to Peru and Peru to Machu Picchu.

[Assistant] Did you have any illnesses at all? Not really, it sounds like.

[User] No, no, the only thing when I came back. When I came back, they you know, they do the stool samples, and I had a parasite and a tapeworm. Which was pretty easy to resolve with good medical care. Tapeworm was just sort of medical like ether balls I took. The parasite gets a medication and that was it. I didn't have any other issues.

[Assistant] Now that was at the end?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, the only thing when I came back. When I came back, they you know, they do the stool samples, and I had a parasite and a tapeworm. Which was pretty easy to resolve with good medical care. Tapeworm was just sort of medical like ether balls I took. The parasite gets a medication and that was it. I didn't have any other issues.

[Assistant] Now that was at the end?

[User] Yeah, that was determined at the end.

[Assistant] Ether balls?

[User] Huge pills like this one like marbles. And you took about eight or 10 of them. And I thought they were like.

[Assistant] They tasted like ether?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, that was determined at the end.

[Assistant] Ether balls?

[User] Huge pills like this one like marbles. And you took about eight or 10 of them. And I thought they were like.

[Assistant] They tasted like ether?

[User] They smelled like it I thought. Burp and put myself to sleep. But I think they just sort of relaxed the whole system and the tapeworm would just be excreted. So the good news, it was good, quick medical care when I got back. I wasn't in any dire need. I wasn't feeling sick. Yeah, I lost some weight, which was sort of.

[Assistant] So did I.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Huge pills like this one like marbles. And you took about eight or 10 of them. And I thought they were like.

[Assistant] They tasted like ether?

[User] They smelled like it I thought. Burp and put myself to sleep. But I think they just sort of relaxed the whole system and the tapeworm would just be excreted. So the good news, it was good, quick medical care when I got back. I wasn't in any dire need. I wasn't feeling sick. Yeah, I lost some weight, which was sort of.

[Assistant] So did I.

[User] Not bad. I could use a tapeworm. I thought that would be that could be a pretty easy diet program for people.

[Assistant] Ok, what about at the end of your tour? What was your sense of achievement, failure or pluses and minuses in your relations and work with the people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They smelled like it I thought. Burp and put myself to sleep. But I think they just sort of relaxed the whole system and the tapeworm would just be excreted. So the good news, it was good, quick medical care when I got back. I wasn't in any dire need. I wasn't feeling sick. Yeah, I lost some weight, which was sort of.

[Assistant] So did I.

[User] Not bad. I could use a tapeworm. I thought that would be that could be a pretty easy diet program for people.

[Assistant] Ok, what about at the end of your tour? What was your sense of achievement, failure or pluses and minuses in your relations and work with the people?

[User] How much impact I had on the school lunch program? I think it was just the fact that there was somebody from outside come in, whether it was me or somebody else outside coming, really got the mayor to do that. He thought that was a good political thing to do. Therefore, he promoted that. How much influence I had on that, I have no idea. I didn't. I really didn't feel like I had accomplished a lot. The contribution.

[Assistant] Probably a lot of just getting to know the people.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not bad. I could use a tapeworm. I thought that would be that could be a pretty easy diet program for people.

[Assistant] Ok, what about at the end of your tour? What was your sense of achievement, failure or pluses and minuses in your relations and work with the people?

[User] How much impact I had on the school lunch program? I think it was just the fact that there was somebody from outside come in, whether it was me or somebody else outside coming, really got the mayor to do that. He thought that was a good political thing to do. Therefore, he promoted that. How much influence I had on that, I have no idea. I didn't. I really didn't feel like I had accomplished a lot. The contribution.

[Assistant] Probably a lot of just getting to know the people.

[User] Yeah, I thought that was going to have been back. They thought I was dead. I ran into some people from the village, about three years after I got back from the Peace Corps, after I got married and moved to Brazil. They all thought, the rumor was I died at home.

[Assistant] So you've been back, have you been back?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] How much impact I had on the school lunch program? I think it was just the fact that there was somebody from outside come in, whether it was me or somebody else outside coming, really got the mayor to do that. He thought that was a good political thing to do. Therefore, he promoted that. How much influence I had on that, I have no idea. I didn't. I really didn't feel like I had accomplished a lot. The contribution.

[Assistant] Probably a lot of just getting to know the people.

[User] Yeah, I thought that was going to have been back. They thought I was dead. I ran into some people from the village, about three years after I got back from the Peace Corps, after I got married and moved to Brazil. They all thought, the rumor was I died at home.

[Assistant] So you've been back, have you been back?

[User] I've been back. I've seen people from the village. I have not been back to the village. My goals for. You know, there's not any travel into Brazil. You know, I didn't want to take a five-day chunk of time. And I was working. Just go to my town, which would take the eight-hour bus. They've got roads up there now, and I think transportation is better because they've reopened the reopened the mine. There's a huge. The village I was in was called Niquelândia, which was nickel land, obviously, and it was a huge mine during the war where it was doing nickel, copper, something else, it was all mixed in. Sort of an expensive ore to break down that's neither categories, but it had value. So they reopen the mine.

[Assistant] So was the mica mine in the same place.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I thought that was going to have been back. They thought I was dead. I ran into some people from the village, about three years after I got back from the Peace Corps, after I got married and moved to Brazil. They all thought, the rumor was I died at home.

[Assistant] So you've been back, have you been back?

[User] I've been back. I've seen people from the village. I have not been back to the village. My goals for. You know, there's not any travel into Brazil. You know, I didn't want to take a five-day chunk of time. And I was working. Just go to my town, which would take the eight-hour bus. They've got roads up there now, and I think transportation is better because they've reopened the reopened the mine. There's a huge. The village I was in was called Niquelândia, which was nickel land, obviously, and it was a huge mine during the war where it was doing nickel, copper, something else, it was all mixed in. Sort of an expensive ore to break down that's neither categories, but it had value. So they reopen the mine.

[Assistant] So was the mica mine in the same place.

[User] Oh, I don't. I have no idea. I don't know if that's not. I went down in a mica, I went down in the holes where they were like rope seat being dropped down into where they were digging the mica out. That was pretty interesting.

[Assistant] I did the same thing in Turkey where they mined the meerschaum, you know, they use it for the pipes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I've been back. I've seen people from the village. I have not been back to the village. My goals for. You know, there's not any travel into Brazil. You know, I didn't want to take a five-day chunk of time. And I was working. Just go to my town, which would take the eight-hour bus. They've got roads up there now, and I think transportation is better because they've reopened the reopened the mine. There's a huge. The village I was in was called Niquelândia, which was nickel land, obviously, and it was a huge mine during the war where it was doing nickel, copper, something else, it was all mixed in. Sort of an expensive ore to break down that's neither categories, but it had value. So they reopen the mine.

[Assistant] So was the mica mine in the same place.

[User] Oh, I don't. I have no idea. I don't know if that's not. I went down in a mica, I went down in the holes where they were like rope seat being dropped down into where they were digging the mica out. That was pretty interesting.

[Assistant] I did the same thing in Turkey where they mined the meerschaum, you know, they use it for the pipes?

[User] Oh yes, sure.

[Assistant] And they have to go down on the ground.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, I don't. I have no idea. I don't know if that's not. I went down in a mica, I went down in the holes where they were like rope seat being dropped down into where they were digging the mica out. That was pretty interesting.

[Assistant] I did the same thing in Turkey where they mined the meerschaum, you know, they use it for the pipes?

[User] Oh yes, sure.

[Assistant] And they have to go down on the ground.

[User] Cappadocia, were you in the Cappadocia area?

[Assistant] No, I wasn't there, but I went to the area where they have the meerschaum. They even, one guy carved, this was, you know, back in the mid '60s and Ali was at his prime. And one guy actually carved a statue of Ali and said, welcome, w-e-l-l-c-o-m-e, welcome to Turkey, you know they were riding the crest there. But yeah, it's evolved.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes, sure.

[Assistant] And they have to go down on the ground.

[User] Cappadocia, were you in the Cappadocia area?

[Assistant] No, I wasn't there, but I went to the area where they have the meerschaum. They even, one guy carved, this was, you know, back in the mid '60s and Ali was at his prime. And one guy actually carved a statue of Ali and said, welcome, w-e-l-l-c-o-m-e, welcome to Turkey, you know they were riding the crest there. But yeah, it's evolved.

[User] So I don't feel badly about it, they didn't send a volunteer in after me. And I don't know why. I think it was, I think it was too far out, really, and it was just too isolated.

[Assistant] Do they have other programs like yours coming in after you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Cappadocia, were you in the Cappadocia area?

[Assistant] No, I wasn't there, but I went to the area where they have the meerschaum. They even, one guy carved, this was, you know, back in the mid '60s and Ali was at his prime. And one guy actually carved a statue of Ali and said, welcome, w-e-l-l-c-o-m-e, welcome to Turkey, you know they were riding the crest there. But yeah, it's evolved.

[User] So I don't feel badly about it, they didn't send a volunteer in after me. And I don't know why. I think it was, I think it was too far out, really, and it was just too isolated.

[Assistant] Do they have other programs like yours coming in after you?

[User] No, that was it. I would imagine that the escolar continued, I would imagine the Food for Peace continued for quite a while and maybe it was evolved enough.

[Assistant] And you get along pretty well with the mayor then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I don't feel badly about it, they didn't send a volunteer in after me. And I don't know why. I think it was, I think it was too far out, really, and it was just too isolated.

[Assistant] Do they have other programs like yours coming in after you?

[User] No, that was it. I would imagine that the escolar continued, I would imagine the Food for Peace continued for quite a while and maybe it was evolved enough.

[Assistant] And you get along pretty well with the mayor then.

[User] Yeah. He was pleasant to me, I was pleasant to him. we weren't bosom buddies.

[Assistant] And there was one other guy that was assigned to him?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, that was it. I would imagine that the escolar continued, I would imagine the Food for Peace continued for quite a while and maybe it was evolved enough.

[Assistant] And you get along pretty well with the mayor then.

[User] Yeah. He was pleasant to me, I was pleasant to him. we weren't bosom buddies.

[Assistant] And there was one other guy that was assigned to him?

[User] Maybe it was a guy that I worked with, so he kept his eye on me. I kept his eye on him. He was a really hard worker and it was great. I didn't have to push him very hard to get him out and going.

[Assistant] Ok, now we're going to try to evaluate your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. He was pleasant to me, I was pleasant to him. we weren't bosom buddies.

[Assistant] And there was one other guy that was assigned to him?

[User] Maybe it was a guy that I worked with, so he kept his eye on me. I kept his eye on him. He was a really hard worker and it was great. I didn't have to push him very hard to get him out and going.

[Assistant] Ok, now we're going to try to evaluate your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps.

[User] What are those three goals?

[Assistant] The first one is, I got some notes here. The first one is to provide technical assistance where requested. How do you feel you did in that area?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Maybe it was a guy that I worked with, so he kept his eye on me. I kept his eye on him. He was a really hard worker and it was great. I didn't have to push him very hard to get him out and going.

[Assistant] Ok, now we're going to try to evaluate your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps.

[User] What are those three goals?

[Assistant] The first one is, I got some notes here. The first one is to provide technical assistance where requested. How do you feel you did in that area?

[User] Well, I think I did help as far as getting expanding the milk program and pushing that expectation and sort of just by being there in a sense of monitoring their use of the Food for Peace stuff, so that was used appropriately and the kids are getting the right meals. I think just the presence of being there did that, achieved that.

[Assistant] And do you think that was taken over by somebody else?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] What are those three goals?

[Assistant] The first one is, I got some notes here. The first one is to provide technical assistance where requested. How do you feel you did in that area?

[User] Well, I think I did help as far as getting expanding the milk program and pushing that expectation and sort of just by being there in a sense of monitoring their use of the Food for Peace stuff, so that was used appropriately and the kids are getting the right meals. I think just the presence of being there did that, achieved that.

[Assistant] And do you think that was taken over by somebody else?

[User] Yeah, I think they did continue it. You know, this was a real cutback and they had cooks at the two grade schools in the city. That was what they did, made those hot meals.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK. And the second goal is to promote better understanding of the United States. How do you how do you feel?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think I did help as far as getting expanding the milk program and pushing that expectation and sort of just by being there in a sense of monitoring their use of the Food for Peace stuff, so that was used appropriately and the kids are getting the right meals. I think just the presence of being there did that, achieved that.

[Assistant] And do you think that was taken over by somebody else?

[User] Yeah, I think they did continue it. You know, this was a real cutback and they had cooks at the two grade schools in the city. That was what they did, made those hot meals.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK. And the second goal is to promote better understanding of the United States. How do you how do you feel?

[User] Well, you know, I don't know. What were you in Turkey for?

[Assistant] '65 to '67.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I think they did continue it. You know, this was a real cutback and they had cooks at the two grade schools in the city. That was what they did, made those hot meals.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK. And the second goal is to promote better understanding of the United States. How do you how do you feel?

[User] Well, you know, I don't know. What were you in Turkey for?

[Assistant] '65 to '67.

[User] And I was there for '66 to '68. There were strange things happening in the United States in those years, that was the King assassination, and it was the Kennedy assassination. There was a lot of racial stuff going on. There was a lot of explaining that was, there was a lot of conversation around, you know, the Vietnam War. Yeah.

[Assistant] So the issue of the racial issue was big in Brazil.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you know, I don't know. What were you in Turkey for?

[Assistant] '65 to '67.

[User] And I was there for '66 to '68. There were strange things happening in the United States in those years, that was the King assassination, and it was the Kennedy assassination. There was a lot of racial stuff going on. There was a lot of explaining that was, there was a lot of conversation around, you know, the Vietnam War. Yeah.

[Assistant] So the issue of the racial issue was big in Brazil.

[User] In Brazil, yeah, because Brazil is a big country. The ratio of gradations are pretty significant. And it's sort of big middle melting pot that's sort of a lovely tan color. Then there was white folks, there is very clear white folks of the upper class and the lower class in Brazil, of course, was the black folks. This was a community that had a lot of slavery, a history of slavery in it. They had a slave church that was filled with voodoo and all sorts of underlying mysticism at the time. Which was really strange because I was attacked by all the upper-class ladies in conversations about the racism in the United States. Aren't you a terrible country? Wow, you guys are just as racist, you just don't know.

[Assistant] You guys are just as bad.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I was there for '66 to '68. There were strange things happening in the United States in those years, that was the King assassination, and it was the Kennedy assassination. There was a lot of racial stuff going on. There was a lot of explaining that was, there was a lot of conversation around, you know, the Vietnam War. Yeah.

[Assistant] So the issue of the racial issue was big in Brazil.

[User] In Brazil, yeah, because Brazil is a big country. The ratio of gradations are pretty significant. And it's sort of big middle melting pot that's sort of a lovely tan color. Then there was white folks, there is very clear white folks of the upper class and the lower class in Brazil, of course, was the black folks. This was a community that had a lot of slavery, a history of slavery in it. They had a slave church that was filled with voodoo and all sorts of underlying mysticism at the time. Which was really strange because I was attacked by all the upper-class ladies in conversations about the racism in the United States. Aren't you a terrible country? Wow, you guys are just as racist, you just don't know.

[Assistant] You guys are just as bad.

[User] You don't quite see it in the same way. There's this whole middle group of tan folks. So, yeah, I thought it was a it was good to have somebody to interpret that. I ran into a lot of oh my god. The thing that I was not prepared and surprised me was a lot of drunk, uh, veterans of World War II who fought with the Americans in Italy. Brazil sent a contingent there. It must have been a big contingent because I ran into a bunch of drunks, guys are serious drinking problems and pretty, still, post- traumatic stress or syndromes, but talking about that and the whole affiliation with the Americans in Italy.

[Assistant] How did how did that go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Brazil, yeah, because Brazil is a big country. The ratio of gradations are pretty significant. And it's sort of big middle melting pot that's sort of a lovely tan color. Then there was white folks, there is very clear white folks of the upper class and the lower class in Brazil, of course, was the black folks. This was a community that had a lot of slavery, a history of slavery in it. They had a slave church that was filled with voodoo and all sorts of underlying mysticism at the time. Which was really strange because I was attacked by all the upper-class ladies in conversations about the racism in the United States. Aren't you a terrible country? Wow, you guys are just as racist, you just don't know.

[Assistant] You guys are just as bad.

[User] You don't quite see it in the same way. There's this whole middle group of tan folks. So, yeah, I thought it was a it was good to have somebody to interpret that. I ran into a lot of oh my god. The thing that I was not prepared and surprised me was a lot of drunk, uh, veterans of World War II who fought with the Americans in Italy. Brazil sent a contingent there. It must have been a big contingent because I ran into a bunch of drunks, guys are serious drinking problems and pretty, still, post- traumatic stress or syndromes, but talking about that and the whole affiliation with the Americans in Italy.

[Assistant] How did how did that go?

[User] It was. They were all positive. Oh, but they were, you know, my buddy type routine. Hard to deal with because they were pretty screwed up. Yeah, they're really screwed up, but that war really, really, it was a World War II. So this is, what, it is 20 years later now, easily 20 years later.

[Assistant] And the third goal is to promote better understanding of other peoples by Americans.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You don't quite see it in the same way. There's this whole middle group of tan folks. So, yeah, I thought it was a it was good to have somebody to interpret that. I ran into a lot of oh my god. The thing that I was not prepared and surprised me was a lot of drunk, uh, veterans of World War II who fought with the Americans in Italy. Brazil sent a contingent there. It must have been a big contingent because I ran into a bunch of drunks, guys are serious drinking problems and pretty, still, post- traumatic stress or syndromes, but talking about that and the whole affiliation with the Americans in Italy.

[Assistant] How did how did that go?

[User] It was. They were all positive. Oh, but they were, you know, my buddy type routine. Hard to deal with because they were pretty screwed up. Yeah, they're really screwed up, but that war really, really, it was a World War II. So this is, what, it is 20 years later now, easily 20 years later.

[Assistant] And the third goal is to promote better understanding of other peoples by Americans.

[User] Very true. I think it changed my life. Not as far as an openness to other people, but it just. Brazil got under my skin as far as a pace and a pattern of living and a way of enjoying life and each other. I may not have changed them, but they certainly changed my pace of life. It was very interesting, and I knew it and I felt it all my life, but that was a sort of, a life pace changing thing. And I'm glad. It doesn't make me a type A but maybe move me to a type A minus or something. Sort of a type A personality. Very different, but I'm glad. I'm glad I did it. Certainly.

[Assistant] Through the years, have you continued any kind of involvement with your country of service or contact with the people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was. They were all positive. Oh, but they were, you know, my buddy type routine. Hard to deal with because they were pretty screwed up. Yeah, they're really screwed up, but that war really, really, it was a World War II. So this is, what, it is 20 years later now, easily 20 years later.

[Assistant] And the third goal is to promote better understanding of other peoples by Americans.

[User] Very true. I think it changed my life. Not as far as an openness to other people, but it just. Brazil got under my skin as far as a pace and a pattern of living and a way of enjoying life and each other. I may not have changed them, but they certainly changed my pace of life. It was very interesting, and I knew it and I felt it all my life, but that was a sort of, a life pace changing thing. And I'm glad. It doesn't make me a type A but maybe move me to a type A minus or something. Sort of a type A personality. Very different, but I'm glad. I'm glad I did it. Certainly.

[Assistant] Through the years, have you continued any kind of involvement with your country of service or contact with the people?

[User] Yes. Oh, by country of service, the country I was in, Brazil? Yeah, we've had visitors from the International Institute here with a preference for Brazilians through their State Department contracts. I think we've had three different Brazilian visitors here for dinner, for overnight, whatever the case may be. And we've also, that opened this up to a whole range of other visitors from other countries we've hosted over the years. Just had an opportunity this weekend to have some Iraqis, but I was gone all week so I didn't have them.

[Assistant] Is that still through the institute?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Very true. I think it changed my life. Not as far as an openness to other people, but it just. Brazil got under my skin as far as a pace and a pattern of living and a way of enjoying life and each other. I may not have changed them, but they certainly changed my pace of life. It was very interesting, and I knew it and I felt it all my life, but that was a sort of, a life pace changing thing. And I'm glad. It doesn't make me a type A but maybe move me to a type A minus or something. Sort of a type A personality. Very different, but I'm glad. I'm glad I did it. Certainly.

[Assistant] Through the years, have you continued any kind of involvement with your country of service or contact with the people?

[User] Yes. Oh, by country of service, the country I was in, Brazil? Yeah, we've had visitors from the International Institute here with a preference for Brazilians through their State Department contracts. I think we've had three different Brazilian visitors here for dinner, for overnight, whatever the case may be. And we've also, that opened this up to a whole range of other visitors from other countries we've hosted over the years. Just had an opportunity this weekend to have some Iraqis, but I was gone all week so I didn't have them.

[Assistant] Is that still through the institute?

[User] Yeah, the international Institute is still doing it.

[Assistant] Is Derek still there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Oh, by country of service, the country I was in, Brazil? Yeah, we've had visitors from the International Institute here with a preference for Brazilians through their State Department contracts. I think we've had three different Brazilian visitors here for dinner, for overnight, whatever the case may be. And we've also, that opened this up to a whole range of other visitors from other countries we've hosted over the years. Just had an opportunity this weekend to have some Iraqis, but I was gone all week so I didn't have them.

[Assistant] Is that still through the institute?

[User] Yeah, the international Institute is still doing it.

[Assistant] Is Derek still there?

[User] Yep, and so proud that he's the longest serving executive director after my boss. So pleased to continue.

[Assistant] Because when I was a recruiter for the Peace Corps here in Milwaukee, I was stationed at the International Institute, and that was when I was on an island. He was quite a character.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, the international Institute is still doing it.

[Assistant] Is Derek still there?

[User] Yep, and so proud that he's the longest serving executive director after my boss. So pleased to continue.

[Assistant] Because when I was a recruiter for the Peace Corps here in Milwaukee, I was stationed at the International Institute, and that was when I was on an island. He was quite a character.

[User] Yeah. So our tape now is going get in trouble.

[Assistant] No, I think it said you can delete certain things.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yep, and so proud that he's the longest serving executive director after my boss. So pleased to continue.

[Assistant] Because when I was a recruiter for the Peace Corps here in Milwaukee, I was stationed at the International Institute, and that was when I was on an island. He was quite a character.

[User] Yeah. So our tape now is going get in trouble.

[Assistant] No, I think it said you can delete certain things.

[User] That would be one that I prefer to delete. He's been here and the daughter came up to Indiana University and attended school there, so she was with us for Thanksgiving and Christmas, his older daughter.

[Assistant] Now you knew her from there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. So our tape now is going get in trouble.

[Assistant] No, I think it said you can delete certain things.

[User] That would be one that I prefer to delete. He's been here and the daughter came up to Indiana University and attended school there, so she was with us for Thanksgiving and Christmas, his older daughter.

[Assistant] Now you knew her from there?

[User] No, I just met her in Goiânia when we came to stay. And then she, after I did that, then she came back to the States to get an advanced degree. Uh, her parents came up, so we got to entertain them with the other two daughters. Just a wonderful relationship that has somehow disappeared through the ages. Communication breakdown. Never trust the Brazilian mail, and I haven't been able to find an email address for them.

[Assistant] Have you had any continuing Peace Corps involvement at all?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That would be one that I prefer to delete. He's been here and the daughter came up to Indiana University and attended school there, so she was with us for Thanksgiving and Christmas, his older daughter.

[Assistant] Now you knew her from there?

[User] No, I just met her in Goiânia when we came to stay. And then she, after I did that, then she came back to the States to get an advanced degree. Uh, her parents came up, so we got to entertain them with the other two daughters. Just a wonderful relationship that has somehow disappeared through the ages. Communication breakdown. Never trust the Brazilian mail, and I haven't been able to find an email address for them.

[Assistant] Have you had any continuing Peace Corps involvement at all?

[User] No, not really.

[Assistant] Have you kept up with any people in your group at all?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I just met her in Goiânia when we came to stay. And then she, after I did that, then she came back to the States to get an advanced degree. Uh, her parents came up, so we got to entertain them with the other two daughters. Just a wonderful relationship that has somehow disappeared through the ages. Communication breakdown. Never trust the Brazilian mail, and I haven't been able to find an email address for them.

[Assistant] Have you had any continuing Peace Corps involvement at all?

[User] No, not really.

[Assistant] Have you kept up with any people in your group at all?

[User] No, I have written to them and I ever got any responses out of the director, so I was out of the directory.

[Assistant] That's kind of unusual. Have you been involved in any third goal activities like trying to, you know, giving slideshows or telling people about your experience?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, not really.

[Assistant] Have you kept up with any people in your group at all?

[User] No, I have written to them and I ever got any responses out of the director, so I was out of the directory.

[Assistant] That's kind of unusual. Have you been involved in any third goal activities like trying to, you know, giving slideshows or telling people about your experience?

[User] Bored people with my two years in Brazil? I've certainly done that. I've done that. I've certainly fostered Brazilian things. There's a group out in Waukesha who are supporting an orphanage in Rio de Janiero or Sao Paolo. So they have a Carnival event every year, which I attend. You know, I've met other Brazilians here, and we got involved with a number of Brazilians who were who lived in Milwaukee who taught at UWM and others who are married to, connected friends. We have other friends here who have lived in Brazil, traveled there.

[Assistant] You've had some contact with the returned Peace Corps volunteer who will be having to or have.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I have written to them and I ever got any responses out of the director, so I was out of the directory.

[Assistant] That's kind of unusual. Have you been involved in any third goal activities like trying to, you know, giving slideshows or telling people about your experience?

[User] Bored people with my two years in Brazil? I've certainly done that. I've done that. I've certainly fostered Brazilian things. There's a group out in Waukesha who are supporting an orphanage in Rio de Janiero or Sao Paolo. So they have a Carnival event every year, which I attend. You know, I've met other Brazilians here, and we got involved with a number of Brazilians who were who lived in Milwaukee who taught at UWM and others who are married to, connected friends. We have other friends here who have lived in Brazil, traveled there.

[Assistant] You've had some contact with the returned Peace Corps volunteer who will be having to or have.

[User] No, not really. I haven't.

[Assistant] Oh, are you open to that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Bored people with my two years in Brazil? I've certainly done that. I've done that. I've certainly fostered Brazilian things. There's a group out in Waukesha who are supporting an orphanage in Rio de Janiero or Sao Paolo. So they have a Carnival event every year, which I attend. You know, I've met other Brazilians here, and we got involved with a number of Brazilians who were who lived in Milwaukee who taught at UWM and others who are married to, connected friends. We have other friends here who have lived in Brazil, traveled there.

[Assistant] You've had some contact with the returned Peace Corps volunteer who will be having to or have.

[User] No, not really. I haven't.

[Assistant] Oh, are you open to that?

[User] Oh, sure. I'd like to be involved in that. Yeah, I've done it. I did it once. I went to a party at the Urban Ecology Center for a kickoff for the new volunteers and their families were there and some people who had just returned were there to talk. I should say there's a history of us all.

[Assistant] Ok, well, do you have any like words of wisdom to anybody who might be listening to this?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, not really. I haven't.

[Assistant] Oh, are you open to that?

[User] Oh, sure. I'd like to be involved in that. Yeah, I've done it. I did it once. I went to a party at the Urban Ecology Center for a kickoff for the new volunteers and their families were there and some people who had just returned were there to talk. I should say there's a history of us all.

[Assistant] Ok, well, do you have any like words of wisdom to anybody who might be listening to this?

[User] No, I guess my only thing would be. I came back and I tried to weigh the Peace Corps experience in my life trajectory. Uh, well, one of the unique things that I experienced was I came back from the Peace Corps and eight months later, I was in the Army, so I refer to those as my war and peace years. So I spent two years in the Army after coming back from the Peace Corps. So I after graduation I was out of circulation for four years, five years. It was a little hard to get back engaged, you know, earning a living. So for some extent in comparison to my contemporaries where they were sort of off on their jobs, I was going nowhere. So it took a while to get really engaged, but I think over a long view, it was worth it. They gave me things that I couldn't have got anywhere else, the sort of personal understanding, personal values, a way of looking at the world. Nothing is more interesting than looking at your country through Third World eyes. We don't quite look as lovely.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's for sure.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, sure. I'd like to be involved in that. Yeah, I've done it. I did it once. I went to a party at the Urban Ecology Center for a kickoff for the new volunteers and their families were there and some people who had just returned were there to talk. I should say there's a history of us all.

[Assistant] Ok, well, do you have any like words of wisdom to anybody who might be listening to this?

[User] No, I guess my only thing would be. I came back and I tried to weigh the Peace Corps experience in my life trajectory. Uh, well, one of the unique things that I experienced was I came back from the Peace Corps and eight months later, I was in the Army, so I refer to those as my war and peace years. So I spent two years in the Army after coming back from the Peace Corps. So I after graduation I was out of circulation for four years, five years. It was a little hard to get back engaged, you know, earning a living. So for some extent in comparison to my contemporaries where they were sort of off on their jobs, I was going nowhere. So it took a while to get really engaged, but I think over a long view, it was worth it. They gave me things that I couldn't have got anywhere else, the sort of personal understanding, personal values, a way of looking at the world. Nothing is more interesting than looking at your country through Third World eyes. We don't quite look as lovely.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's for sure.

[User] So it was really interesting to learn that to learn at 22. It was a good time to learn that, you know, how what you're doing impacts on the world and how people in other parts of the world live.

[Assistant] Like as an example, most of the Turks that that the Johnson bumped off Kennedy because that's how they would have done it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I guess my only thing would be. I came back and I tried to weigh the Peace Corps experience in my life trajectory. Uh, well, one of the unique things that I experienced was I came back from the Peace Corps and eight months later, I was in the Army, so I refer to those as my war and peace years. So I spent two years in the Army after coming back from the Peace Corps. So I after graduation I was out of circulation for four years, five years. It was a little hard to get back engaged, you know, earning a living. So for some extent in comparison to my contemporaries where they were sort of off on their jobs, I was going nowhere. So it took a while to get really engaged, but I think over a long view, it was worth it. They gave me things that I couldn't have got anywhere else, the sort of personal understanding, personal values, a way of looking at the world. Nothing is more interesting than looking at your country through Third World eyes. We don't quite look as lovely.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's for sure.

[User] So it was really interesting to learn that to learn at 22. It was a good time to learn that, you know, how what you're doing impacts on the world and how people in other parts of the world live.

[Assistant] Like as an example, most of the Turks that that the Johnson bumped off Kennedy because that's how they would have done it.

[User] That's how they would do it. A good conspiracy theory. Yeah.

[Assistant] And then, of course, like Sargent Shriver was our director at the time. And, you know, we tried to, you know, tell them that he was Kennedy's brother-in-law, you know, to try to help out. I don't think that did much good.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it was really interesting to learn that to learn at 22. It was a good time to learn that, you know, how what you're doing impacts on the world and how people in other parts of the world live.

[Assistant] Like as an example, most of the Turks that that the Johnson bumped off Kennedy because that's how they would have done it.

[User] That's how they would do it. A good conspiracy theory. Yeah.

[Assistant] And then, of course, like Sargent Shriver was our director at the time. And, you know, we tried to, you know, tell them that he was Kennedy's brother-in-law, you know, to try to help out. I don't think that did much good.

[User] Kennedy was such a star.

[Assistant] Oh, he was. And over in Turkey, you know, like every hotel or bar you're going to, there's a picture of Ataturk. But then during the Kennedy administration, he was right under Ataturk. I mean, he was far more loved there than he was here.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's how they would do it. A good conspiracy theory. Yeah.

[Assistant] And then, of course, like Sargent Shriver was our director at the time. And, you know, we tried to, you know, tell them that he was Kennedy's brother-in-law, you know, to try to help out. I don't think that did much good.

[User] Kennedy was such a star.

[Assistant] Oh, he was. And over in Turkey, you know, like every hotel or bar you're going to, there's a picture of Ataturk. But then during the Kennedy administration, he was right under Ataturk. I mean, he was far more loved there than he was here.

[User] Oh yeah. I would guess Obama's in the same place.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Ok, here's your last chance.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a group of people I had never met before. And I didn’t meet any of the other 180 who were interviewed. The only ones that I met were the ones in my little group of twenty. We spent a week going from briefing to briefing, from dinner to dinner, and medical evaluations, brief psychological exams, and individual interviews with the Astronaut Selection Committee.

[Assistant] How did you learn that you were selected to be a candidate?

[User] I got a phone call from George W. S. Abbey very, very early in the morning California time. He was probably going through his list, making calls to those selected at, oh, seven-thirty or eight in the morning, Houston time. I was awakened by the phone call, and when I heard George Abbey on the phone, I though it was probably good news. He would have delegated the bad-news phone calls to someone else on the selection committee.

[Assistant] And your reaction?

[User] Well, it took me a while to wake up! I thought maybe I was dreaming. [Laughter] But, of course, I was thrilled. My biggest frustration was that it was five or six in the morning in California, so all my friends and family were asleep. I wasn’t sure that I should wake them up to give them the news!

[Assistant] Now, was this good timing for you in your career plan?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I got a phone call from George W. S. Abbey very, very early in the morning California time. He was probably going through his list, making calls to those selected at, oh, seven-thirty or eight in the morning, Houston time. I was awakened by the phone call, and when I heard George Abbey on the phone, I though it was probably good news. He would have delegated the bad-news phone calls to someone else on the selection committee.

[Assistant] And your reaction?

[User] Well, it took me a while to wake up! I thought maybe I was dreaming. [Laughter] But, of course, I was thrilled. My biggest frustration was that it was five or six in the morning in California, so all my friends and family were asleep. I wasn’t sure that I should wake them up to give them the news!

[Assistant] Now, was this good timing for you in your career plan?

[User] It was almost perfect timing for me. And as I remember, it was January of 1978 when were told we’d been selected. The thirty-five of us in the new class of astronauts were all told to report to Houston in July. My Ph.D. thesis was scheduled for late June, so it was almost perfect timing. I literally defended my Ph.D. thesis, got in the car, and drove to Houston.

[Assistant] When NASA announced the new class that included six female astronauts, which was totally different from anything they had done before, how did [the] response of the media and other organizations, especially some of the feminist organizations, impact your life? And did the impact start before you actually went down to JSC?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They did an excellent job, yes. My students graduated.

[Assistant] Speak a little bit more, if you would, please, about what type of training that you had to go through as being support crew for STS-2 and for 3. What does that involve?

[User] The job description is to be at the beck and call of the crew. The STS-2 and STS-3 crews made the assignments for the support crew, deciding what they needed from the different members of the support crew. I spent a lot of my time before STS-2 working on the plan for Earth observations and also on the detailed procedures for the tests of the robot arm. STS-2 was the first flight to carry the arm, so I spent a lot of time with the crew, helping to train them, helping to develop their procedures, and just helping to determine what tests they were going to conduct.\n\n The support crew also made up the group of CapComs [Capsule Communicators] for STS-2 and STS-3. I was an on-orbit CapCom for both STS-2 and STS-3. That meant that during their training cycle, I was in mission control whenever they were doing their on-orbit simulations. Jim [James F.] Buchli and I were the two on-orbit CapComs for that flight.

[Assistant] Of course, this new assignment as being the CapCom featured a female voice for the first time. Did you receive much feedback about that position as well, or was this—

[User] Not really very much. I don’t think that drew much attention outside of NASA, outside of mission control, and it didn’t draw any attention in mission control after the first couple of sims [simulations]. And since we did hundreds of simulations, it was old news very, very quickly.

[Assistant] Just to step back for a second, on STS-1 you had a different assignment. You were part of the chase crew. Can you tell us what your assignment was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not really very much. I don’t think that drew much attention outside of NASA, outside of mission control, and it didn’t draw any attention in mission control after the first couple of sims [simulations]. And since we did hundreds of simulations, it was old news very, very quickly.

[Assistant] Just to step back for a second, on STS-1 you had a different assignment. You were part of the chase crew. Can you tell us what your assignment was?

[User] Everybody was part of the chase crew on STS-1! [Laughter] Yes, I was with Dick [Francis R.] Scobee. He and I were paired in a T-38, chasing at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida]. If STS-1 had come back to land at the Cape on RTLS [Return to Launch Site], we would have been one of the chase planes following them in.

[Assistant] And what an exciting time for all of the crews, to be able to be there for STS-1.

[User] Absolutely.

[Assistant] Were you at the Cape when it launched?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Everybody was part of the chase crew on STS-1! [Laughter] Yes, I was with Dick [Francis R.] Scobee. He and I were paired in a T-38, chasing at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida]. If STS-1 had come back to land at the Cape on RTLS [Return to Launch Site], we would have been one of the chase planes following them in.

[Assistant] And what an exciting time for all of the crews, to be able to be there for STS-1.

[User] Absolutely.

[Assistant] Were you at the Cape when it launched?

[User] Yes, I was.

[Assistant] You had your own chance to be named to a crew with STS-7. When and how did you learn that you were selected for that first Shuttle trip?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Absolutely.

[Assistant] Were you at the Cape when it launched?

[User] Yes, I was.

[Assistant] You had your own chance to be named to a crew with STS-7. When and how did you learn that you were selected for that first Shuttle trip?

[User] Shortly before one of the regular Astronaut Office Monday morning meetings, I got called to come over to George Abbey’s office. It was 7:30 or 7:45 in the morning. I went over to his office and he told me then.

[Assistant] Of course, this was the beginning of another first for you. You were going to be the first American woman to fly. Describe for us the reaction to the news when you told your family that, once again, you were going to be making the news.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I was.

[Assistant] You had your own chance to be named to a crew with STS-7. When and how did you learn that you were selected for that first Shuttle trip?

[User] Shortly before one of the regular Astronaut Office Monday morning meetings, I got called to come over to George Abbey’s office. It was 7:30 or 7:45 in the morning. I went over to his office and he told me then.

[Assistant] Of course, this was the beginning of another first for you. You were going to be the first American woman to fly. Describe for us the reaction to the news when you told your family that, once again, you were going to be making the news.

[User] [Laughs] Well, they were pretty excited. They knew that this was something that I’d wanted to do for a long time. After all, I’d been in training for four years when I heard the news, so they’d been preparing for this eventuality for four years. They were really excited when I got assigned to a flight.

[Assistant] When Mr. Abbey talked to you about your new assignment, that you were going to be flying, was there talk of the impact that it would [have on] you and NASA, that you were taking a step into history?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Actually, the simulators did a really good job of simulating the robot arm. It was a little easier to use the arm in space than it was in the simulators, because I could look out the window and see a real arm. And although the visuals in the simulators are very good, there’s nothing quite like being able to look out the window and see the real thing. It felt very comfortable and familiar. The simulators had prepared me very well.

[Assistant] And as you mentioned, you deployed satellites. Again, you were not in practice anymore, you were actually being successfully productive and meeting those goals.

[User] The act of releasing a satellite and then backing the arm away felt very much like it did in the simulators. But the act of going up and capturing a satellite was a little more scary. I remember thinking, “Oh, my gosh. This is real metal that will hit real metal if I miss. What if we don’t capture this satellite? It was easy in the simulators, but is it going to be as easy in orbit?” It turned out that it was, but the experience was different because it was real. In orbit, it really mattered that I captured the satellite. In the simulators it’s not that important. If you miss, it’s just a virtual arm going through a virtual payload, and no harm’s done.

[Assistant] When you returned, did you have any new suggestions or recommendations on how the operations worked, that you could give back to the trainers to enhance the arm’s movement for the next crew?

[User] I think we made a few small recommendations, but I don’t think that we made any major recommendations. Basically, we said that the procedures worked quite well and that the arm responded very much like the simulators suggested that it would, both during release and in capture.

[Assistant] The mission was responsible for the agency’s first full photo of the Orbiter in space.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The act of releasing a satellite and then backing the arm away felt very much like it did in the simulators. But the act of going up and capturing a satellite was a little more scary. I remember thinking, “Oh, my gosh. This is real metal that will hit real metal if I miss. What if we don’t capture this satellite? It was easy in the simulators, but is it going to be as easy in orbit?” It turned out that it was, but the experience was different because it was real. In orbit, it really mattered that I captured the satellite. In the simulators it’s not that important. If you miss, it’s just a virtual arm going through a virtual payload, and no harm’s done.

[Assistant] When you returned, did you have any new suggestions or recommendations on how the operations worked, that you could give back to the trainers to enhance the arm’s movement for the next crew?

[User] I think we made a few small recommendations, but I don’t think that we made any major recommendations. Basically, we said that the procedures worked quite well and that the arm responded very much like the simulators suggested that it would, both during release and in capture.

[Assistant] The mission was responsible for the agency’s first full photo of the Orbiter in space.

[User] I still show that slide.

[Assistant] I was going to ask you if you’d share your thoughts about the accomplishment of your mission that has left such a lasting image for everyone.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think we made a few small recommendations, but I don’t think that we made any major recommendations. Basically, we said that the procedures worked quite well and that the arm responded very much like the simulators suggested that it would, both during release and in capture.

[Assistant] The mission was responsible for the agency’s first full photo of the Orbiter in space.

[User] I still show that slide.

[Assistant] I was going to ask you if you’d share your thoughts about the accomplishment of your mission that has left such a lasting image for everyone.

[User] We spent a lot of time taking that picture. It was almost an afterthought that NASA decided to put a camera on board that satellite. There was a video camera whose output we could view inside the cockpit of the Shuttle; as a result, we could almost center the picture and make sure that the whole Orbiter was in the frame of the picture. We actually spent much more time than we should have, much to mission control’s surprise, putting the arm in the shape of a “7” before we took the picture so that everybody would know it was STS-7 that took it.

[Assistant] We’ve talked about how the technical aspects during your mission met your expectations. How did your body respond once you got to microgravity? Was it what you thought it was going to be, and did you respond as well as you had hoped?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I still show that slide.

[Assistant] I was going to ask you if you’d share your thoughts about the accomplishment of your mission that has left such a lasting image for everyone.

[User] We spent a lot of time taking that picture. It was almost an afterthought that NASA decided to put a camera on board that satellite. There was a video camera whose output we could view inside the cockpit of the Shuttle; as a result, we could almost center the picture and make sure that the whole Orbiter was in the frame of the picture. We actually spent much more time than we should have, much to mission control’s surprise, putting the arm in the shape of a “7” before we took the picture so that everybody would know it was STS-7 that took it.

[Assistant] We’ve talked about how the technical aspects during your mission met your expectations. How did your body respond once you got to microgravity? Was it what you thought it was going to be, and did you respond as well as you had hoped?

[User] I did. I didn’t really know what to expect, because there isn’t a way to train for being weightless. It’s so far removed from a person’s everyday experience, that even hearing other astronauts describe it didn’t give me a clue how to prepare for it. What I discovered was that although it took an hour or so to get used to moving around, I adapted to it pretty quickly. I loved it. I really enjoyed being weightless.

[Assistant] Did you get to use some of the training that you used with Joe Engle and Dick Truly about Earth obs? Did you have an opportunity to do that as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We spent a lot of time taking that picture. It was almost an afterthought that NASA decided to put a camera on board that satellite. There was a video camera whose output we could view inside the cockpit of the Shuttle; as a result, we could almost center the picture and make sure that the whole Orbiter was in the frame of the picture. We actually spent much more time than we should have, much to mission control’s surprise, putting the arm in the shape of a “7” before we took the picture so that everybody would know it was STS-7 that took it.

[Assistant] We’ve talked about how the technical aspects during your mission met your expectations. How did your body respond once you got to microgravity? Was it what you thought it was going to be, and did you respond as well as you had hoped?

[User] I did. I didn’t really know what to expect, because there isn’t a way to train for being weightless. It’s so far removed from a person’s everyday experience, that even hearing other astronauts describe it didn’t give me a clue how to prepare for it. What I discovered was that although it took an hour or so to get used to moving around, I adapted to it pretty quickly. I loved it. I really enjoyed being weightless.

[Assistant] Did you get to use some of the training that you used with Joe Engle and Dick Truly about Earth obs? Did you have an opportunity to do that as well?

[User] We spent quite a bit of time plotting our Earth observations strategy. I don’t think I was the best photographer on the crew, but I had a great time looking out the window.

[Assistant] Talking back to Earth, one of the people that you talked to was CapCom Mary [L.] Cleave, [the] first time that we had a woman talking to a woman. Did that even cross your mind that you two were visiting?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did. I didn’t really know what to expect, because there isn’t a way to train for being weightless. It’s so far removed from a person’s everyday experience, that even hearing other astronauts describe it didn’t give me a clue how to prepare for it. What I discovered was that although it took an hour or so to get used to moving around, I adapted to it pretty quickly. I loved it. I really enjoyed being weightless.

[Assistant] Did you get to use some of the training that you used with Joe Engle and Dick Truly about Earth obs? Did you have an opportunity to do that as well?

[User] We spent quite a bit of time plotting our Earth observations strategy. I don’t think I was the best photographer on the crew, but I had a great time looking out the window.

[Assistant] Talking back to Earth, one of the people that you talked to was CapCom Mary [L.] Cleave, [the] first time that we had a woman talking to a woman. Did that even cross your mind that you two were visiting?

[User] You know something? It did not cross my mind. I don’t know whether it occurred to Mary either. I didn’t even think about it until after I landed and somebody pointed it out to me. And apparently the first time we talked we said something totally unmemorable. [Laughter] I don’t know what is was, but it was not particularly historic.

[Assistant] Just astronaut to astronaut. Did you encounter any significant challenges on this mission that you remember, or do feel like your training provided you what you needed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We spent quite a bit of time plotting our Earth observations strategy. I don’t think I was the best photographer on the crew, but I had a great time looking out the window.

[Assistant] Talking back to Earth, one of the people that you talked to was CapCom Mary [L.] Cleave, [the] first time that we had a woman talking to a woman. Did that even cross your mind that you two were visiting?

[User] You know something? It did not cross my mind. I don’t know whether it occurred to Mary either. I didn’t even think about it until after I landed and somebody pointed it out to me. And apparently the first time we talked we said something totally unmemorable. [Laughter] I don’t know what is was, but it was not particularly historic.

[Assistant] Just astronaut to astronaut. Did you encounter any significant challenges on this mission that you remember, or do feel like your training provided you what you needed?

[User] The training prepared us very, very well for everything we were going to do. We had a few small problems on the flight—problems with some of the recording instrumentation associated with the satellite we deployed and some of the experiments on that satellite. We spent a fair amount of time trying to work those problems. But that only served to kind of delay the timeline a bit. We didn’t run into really any big surprises during the flight, certainly no obstacles that the training hadn’t prepared us for.

[Assistant] Due to bad weather, your plans got changed and you didn’t land at Kennedy [Space Center, Florida]. You landed at Edwards Air Force [California]. How did the crew feel about going to there instead of back home to KSC?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes and no. A lot of help with fielding the requests. All the requests went through NASA, through the Public Affairs Office and through the Astronaut Office, but very little help in preparing to talk with either the press or to make public appearances. Now, of course, all astronauts learn “on the job” how to give a talk and how to work with the public and with various organizations.\n\n I’d done my share of public appearances and speeches before I’d gone into training, so I knew how to talk to the press and I knew how to go and show my slides and give a good speech. But just the sheer volume of it was something that was completely different for me, and people reacted much differently to me after my flight than they did before my flight. Everybody wanted a piece of me after the flight.

[Assistant] Were there times that you felt some of the events that you went to or some of the times during the events that people asked questions that were not necessarily NASA-related that got into too much of your personal life and activities, or how your new life was affecting your personal life?

[User] Occasionally, but not too much. Most often, people were just interested in the flight, in my experience, in my view of the historical nature of the flight, that sort of thing. Not too much on my personal life. That really wasn’t as much of a problem for me as the sheer volume of things that I had to do. It was just incessant for months.

[Assistant] It wasn’t too long after you landed that you were advised that you’d be flying again.

[User] Thank goodness. [Laughter] Back into training, safe again.

[Assistant] And how did you learn about this new assignment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Occasionally, but not too much. Most often, people were just interested in the flight, in my experience, in my view of the historical nature of the flight, that sort of thing. Not too much on my personal life. That really wasn’t as much of a problem for me as the sheer volume of things that I had to do. It was just incessant for months.

[Assistant] It wasn’t too long after you landed that you were advised that you’d be flying again.

[User] Thank goodness. [Laughter] Back into training, safe again.

[Assistant] And how did you learn about this new assignment?

[User] I actually don’t remember the details of how I found out about this second flight assignment. It was George Abbey, again, who told us, but I really don’t remember the details. I think I heard that it was likely to come before we actually met with him.

[Assistant] Did you learn with all the rest of the crew this time or, again, was it a personal advisement to you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Thank goodness. [Laughter] Back into training, safe again.

[Assistant] And how did you learn about this new assignment?

[User] I actually don’t remember the details of how I found out about this second flight assignment. It was George Abbey, again, who told us, but I really don’t remember the details. I think I heard that it was likely to come before we actually met with him.

[Assistant] Did you learn with all the rest of the crew this time or, again, was it a personal advisement to you?

[User] No. It was with the rest of the crew that time.

[Assistant] So it was somewhat of a normal situation now.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I actually don’t remember the details of how I found out about this second flight assignment. It was George Abbey, again, who told us, but I really don’t remember the details. I think I heard that it was likely to come before we actually met with him.

[Assistant] Did you learn with all the rest of the crew this time or, again, was it a personal advisement to you?

[User] No. It was with the rest of the crew that time.

[Assistant] So it was somewhat of a normal situation now.

[User] Back to normalcy. And one great thing was that Kathy [Kathryn D.] Sullivan was on that crew as well. A nice “first,” the first crew with two women on it.

[Assistant] At least she had someone to share the attention with.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. It was with the rest of the crew that time.

[Assistant] So it was somewhat of a normal situation now.

[User] Back to normalcy. And one great thing was that Kathy [Kathryn D.] Sullivan was on that crew as well. A nice “first,” the first crew with two women on it.

[Assistant] At least she had someone to share the attention with.

[User] Right. Exactly.

[Assistant] And she was going to be doing the EVA [Extravehicular Activity], which was very much a historic moment. The first woman to do one.