[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Always had indoor, but no, no hot water, but always and not all volunteers did, but we did. We always had electricity. We always had. We had a big problem with ants. And I remember one Thanksgiving, I'd learned to cook this cake on this little kerosene oven that goes with that kerosene stove. The oven goes up on top of it. And I baked this cake and it was a chocolate cake. And so we were afraid ants were going to get into it, so we put it in a big pedestal in the tub of water. And as we were about to slice the cake, we could see the chocolate moving. The ants had somehow managed to swim across and get it.

[Assistant] Well, they can be resourceful. So you had to take care of all your own shopping, cooking?

[User] No, we were expected to have a maid. We had a maid because we were teachers. I mean, that was what you did. And we had Rita and she was a lovely person. And it took us some adjusting to get used to Rita because none of us were accustomed to having servants. And when I say one of my, in my essays, that Rita really got very upset with us. And I think it was at that, because she said, we talk too fast, we didn't listen. We were just, we did everything too fast for her. And I realized at that point that all of this cultural sensitivity we were supposedly practicing, we had not practiced it, practiced it on the person closest to us in our household. And that was a lesson learned. But she became, I saw her. I went back to the Philippines after I was in the Foreign Service. And I went back to my village, my town, and went and saw some of the people that I had known, including Rita, including that former counselor.

[Assistant] What about what would you say the population was of the town?

[User] 10,000, pretty big.

[Assistant] Ok. It was not a small town.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, we were expected to have a maid. We had a maid because we were teachers. I mean, that was what you did. And we had Rita and she was a lovely person. And it took us some adjusting to get used to Rita because none of us were accustomed to having servants. And when I say one of my, in my essays, that Rita really got very upset with us. And I think it was at that, because she said, we talk too fast, we didn't listen. We were just, we did everything too fast for her. And I realized at that point that all of this cultural sensitivity we were supposedly practicing, we had not practiced it, practiced it on the person closest to us in our household. And that was a lesson learned. But she became, I saw her. I went back to the Philippines after I was in the Foreign Service. And I went back to my village, my town, and went and saw some of the people that I had known, including Rita, including that former counselor.

[Assistant] What about what would you say the population was of the town?

[User] 10,000, pretty big.

[Assistant] Ok. It was not a small town.

[User] No, you didn't seem that way when you went through it, but it was lots of, you know, houses off into the fields.

[Assistant] Did you have any health or injury issues while you were serving?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] 10,000, pretty big.

[Assistant] Ok. It was not a small town.

[User] No, you didn't seem that way when you went through it, but it was lots of, you know, houses off into the fields.

[Assistant] Did you have any health or injury issues while you were serving?

[User] I didn’t, I was incredibly, I didn't I didn't even have the, you know, usually belly problems that people have. We were very careful. We also taught, really seriously, how to take care of our health and we had Peace Corps doctors. We had two Peace Corps doctors who were in the country who visited us, and we had good dental health. And I think we were fairly well taken care of, but we did lose a volunteer. Probably one of the first to die in the Peace Corps, David Mulholland. He had stomach problems and gastro problems and he passed away.

[Assistant] It must have been pretty severe.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, you didn't seem that way when you went through it, but it was lots of, you know, houses off into the fields.

[Assistant] Did you have any health or injury issues while you were serving?

[User] I didn’t, I was incredibly, I didn't I didn't even have the, you know, usually belly problems that people have. We were very careful. We also taught, really seriously, how to take care of our health and we had Peace Corps doctors. We had two Peace Corps doctors who were in the country who visited us, and we had good dental health. And I think we were fairly well taken care of, but we did lose a volunteer. Probably one of the first to die in the Peace Corps, David Mulholland. He had stomach problems and gastro problems and he passed away.

[Assistant] It must have been pretty severe.

[User] Pretty severe. And I think that, you know, he thought he could overcome them or ride them out. And that was real tragedy.

[Assistant] That is. So talking about your, the school where you were teaching. What did you think of the school building itself when you first saw it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn’t, I was incredibly, I didn't I didn't even have the, you know, usually belly problems that people have. We were very careful. We also taught, really seriously, how to take care of our health and we had Peace Corps doctors. We had two Peace Corps doctors who were in the country who visited us, and we had good dental health. And I think we were fairly well taken care of, but we did lose a volunteer. Probably one of the first to die in the Peace Corps, David Mulholland. He had stomach problems and gastro problems and he passed away.

[Assistant] It must have been pretty severe.

[User] Pretty severe. And I think that, you know, he thought he could overcome them or ride them out. And that was real tragedy.

[Assistant] That is. So talking about your, the school where you were teaching. What did you think of the school building itself when you first saw it?

[User] It was not that. It was a very, you know, the students were very, they were required to keep the school clean. So they swept and they raked and the buildings were sturdy.

[Assistant] Was it made out of wood?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Pretty severe. And I think that, you know, he thought he could overcome them or ride them out. And that was real tragedy.

[Assistant] That is. So talking about your, the school where you were teaching. What did you think of the school building itself when you first saw it?

[User] It was not that. It was a very, you know, the students were very, they were required to keep the school clean. So they swept and they raked and the buildings were sturdy.

[Assistant] Was it made out of wood?

[User] Wood. Kind of open, open window. Well, actually, slat windows that open up, I mean, if you kept them close, they would there was no glass. So you open air and that could be, you know, it was raining. There could be a problem because you could if it wasn't coming in, at least you could hear it. But I'd say the rooms were, the school was adequately equipped. Unlike what I often saw in Togo later on and in some other places in the developing world where I've lived or visited. Um, I did I tell you about my library? As part of my school project?

[Assistant] No, but you can now.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was not that. It was a very, you know, the students were very, they were required to keep the school clean. So they swept and they raked and the buildings were sturdy.

[Assistant] Was it made out of wood?

[User] Wood. Kind of open, open window. Well, actually, slat windows that open up, I mean, if you kept them close, they would there was no glass. So you open air and that could be, you know, it was raining. There could be a problem because you could if it wasn't coming in, at least you could hear it. But I'd say the rooms were, the school was adequately equipped. Unlike what I often saw in Togo later on and in some other places in the developing world where I've lived or visited. Um, I did I tell you about my library? As part of my school project?

[Assistant] No, but you can now.

[User] Always. My friend Barbara, Barbara Bassett, she was one of my other roommates. She and I started a library and she becomes less involved in it because she wasn't living in in the town. And then she moved, as I said, to work in the high school. I started a library, Magarao Community Library, and my mother collected 4,000 books for this library. She solicited the books from the Enoch Pratt Library, various bookstores, various schools, and we arranged to get the USAID, United States Information Agency, and some non- governmental organizations such as Asia Foundation to ship the books. All in all we collected, the library had 7,000 books and she said most of them, including five sets of encyclopedias, which at that that 1960s, encyclopedias were very, very important.

[Assistant] State of the art.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Always. My friend Barbara, Barbara Bassett, she was one of my other roommates. She and I started a library and she becomes less involved in it because she wasn't living in in the town. And then she moved, as I said, to work in the high school. I started a library, Magarao Community Library, and my mother collected 4,000 books for this library. She solicited the books from the Enoch Pratt Library, various bookstores, various schools, and we arranged to get the USAID, United States Information Agency, and some non- governmental organizations such as Asia Foundation to ship the books. All in all we collected, the library had 7,000 books and she said most of them, including five sets of encyclopedias, which at that that 1960s, encyclopedias were very, very important.

[Assistant] State of the art.

[User] Yeah. And that library have a picture of the 10 year anniversary of the library. I know it stayed in existence almost 15 years until they had a typhoon that came through the area. Now, what I don't know is how the books were replenished or if they were replenished. And there was a custodian that I worked with. First of all, the town found a spot for the library and then the custodian worked with me to help catalog the books. And he became the librarian.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Very good. Very good. And did your students at the school live at home and get transportation or walk to school?

[User] Yes, mostly walked.

[Assistant] So it was not a boarding school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, mostly walked.

[Assistant] So it was not a boarding school?

[User] No, not at all.

[Assistant] Ok.

[User] It had a really dynamic teaching staff and most of all, a dynamic principal. Woman principal.

[Assistant] So you were impressed with the other faculty members and the principal?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, not at all.

[Assistant] Ok.

[User] It had a really dynamic teaching staff and most of all, a dynamic principal. Woman principal.

[Assistant] So you were impressed with the other faculty members and the principal?

[User] Yes, you know. There was one male principal who we had some misunderstandings with him, and I think this was another lesson learned in cultural sensitivity, is that if you have a meeting sometimes in the Philippines, at least then, people would tell you what they thought you wanted to hear rather than what was reality. And so we were disappointed that they hadn't done this or that for the two projects we were working on the summer camp or the library, and we express them freely. And this one gentleman expressed his opinions freely and we had a little friction there. But we'd gone along thinking things were going in one direction and then to fall to find out that certain things had fallen apart.

[Assistant] I see. When you first saw your classroom, what did you think of?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It had a really dynamic teaching staff and most of all, a dynamic principal. Woman principal.

[Assistant] So you were impressed with the other faculty members and the principal?

[User] Yes, you know. There was one male principal who we had some misunderstandings with him, and I think this was another lesson learned in cultural sensitivity, is that if you have a meeting sometimes in the Philippines, at least then, people would tell you what they thought you wanted to hear rather than what was reality. And so we were disappointed that they hadn't done this or that for the two projects we were working on the summer camp or the library, and we express them freely. And this one gentleman expressed his opinions freely and we had a little friction there. But we'd gone along thinking things were going in one direction and then to fall to find out that certain things had fallen apart.

[Assistant] I see. When you first saw your classroom, what did you think of?

[User] The classes were large, maybe 35, 40 students. They were so docile. They were so sweet. But they also were so curious and they saw us as almost different creatures, and sometimes they just burst out giggling at things, we didn't know what they were giggling about. And then when we came home at night, we'd sit in our living room and again, we had these open flat windows and the students, many of them would just come and sit and look at us while we while we were in the living room. Well, the result was that we the we as teachers, we're not supposed to be drinking or so we thought. So if we on Friday, if we had, they had very good rum, they had rum and Coke, we would drink it out of the teapot because these students were looking at us the whole time.

[Assistant] And the students would sit on?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, you know. There was one male principal who we had some misunderstandings with him, and I think this was another lesson learned in cultural sensitivity, is that if you have a meeting sometimes in the Philippines, at least then, people would tell you what they thought you wanted to hear rather than what was reality. And so we were disappointed that they hadn't done this or that for the two projects we were working on the summer camp or the library, and we express them freely. And this one gentleman expressed his opinions freely and we had a little friction there. But we'd gone along thinking things were going in one direction and then to fall to find out that certain things had fallen apart.

[Assistant] I see. When you first saw your classroom, what did you think of?

[User] The classes were large, maybe 35, 40 students. They were so docile. They were so sweet. But they also were so curious and they saw us as almost different creatures, and sometimes they just burst out giggling at things, we didn't know what they were giggling about. And then when we came home at night, we'd sit in our living room and again, we had these open flat windows and the students, many of them would just come and sit and look at us while we while we were in the living room. Well, the result was that we the we as teachers, we're not supposed to be drinking or so we thought. So if we on Friday, if we had, they had very good rum, they had rum and Coke, we would drink it out of the teapot because these students were looking at us the whole time.

[Assistant] And the students would sit on?

[User] Their had regular bench. We had very basic desks. As I said, it was it was fairly well equipped and I think might have there might have been some USAID projects. I know there were some educational projects.

[Assistant] And what grade levels?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The classes were large, maybe 35, 40 students. They were so docile. They were so sweet. But they also were so curious and they saw us as almost different creatures, and sometimes they just burst out giggling at things, we didn't know what they were giggling about. And then when we came home at night, we'd sit in our living room and again, we had these open flat windows and the students, many of them would just come and sit and look at us while we while we were in the living room. Well, the result was that we the we as teachers, we're not supposed to be drinking or so we thought. So if we on Friday, if we had, they had very good rum, they had rum and Coke, we would drink it out of the teapot because these students were looking at us the whole time.

[Assistant] And the students would sit on?

[User] Their had regular bench. We had very basic desks. As I said, it was it was fairly well equipped and I think might have there might have been some USAID projects. I know there were some educational projects.

[Assistant] And what grade levels?

[User] Fifth and sixth, I was teaching fifth and sixth. And it was English and science.

[Assistant] You know, the you were the only teacher in the school that was a Peace Corps volunteer? The other teachers were all Filipinos?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Their had regular bench. We had very basic desks. As I said, it was it was fairly well equipped and I think might have there might have been some USAID projects. I know there were some educational projects.

[Assistant] And what grade levels?

[User] Fifth and sixth, I was teaching fifth and sixth. And it was English and science.

[Assistant] You know, the you were the only teacher in the school that was a Peace Corps volunteer? The other teachers were all Filipinos?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] OK. Alrighty. And you had mentioned before we started the interview that there was you initially thought that you were going to train teachers and it ended up being more direct.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Fifth and sixth, I was teaching fifth and sixth. And it was English and science.

[Assistant] You know, the you were the only teacher in the school that was a Peace Corps volunteer? The other teachers were all Filipinos?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] OK. Alrighty. And you had mentioned before we started the interview that there was you initially thought that you were going to train teachers and it ended up being more direct.

[User] And that was dispelled almost immediately.

[Assistant] Tell me a little more about that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] OK. Alrighty. And you had mentioned before we started the interview that there was you initially thought that you were going to train teachers and it ended up being more direct.

[User] And that was dispelled almost immediately.

[Assistant] Tell me a little more about that.

[User] Well, the principal was a very strong leader. She said, I think you will be more effective if you work with that, with our students directly. And that will also relieve us to have one extra teacher that another with more evenly divide the workload.

[Assistant] I see. So you did, did you do any teacher training or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And that was dispelled almost immediately.

[Assistant] Tell me a little more about that.

[User] Well, the principal was a very strong leader. She said, I think you will be more effective if you work with that, with our students directly. And that will also relieve us to have one extra teacher that another with more evenly divide the workload.

[Assistant] I see. So you did, did you do any teacher training or?

[User] No, from the day we arrived.

[Assistant] Ok, so that went out the window.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the principal was a very strong leader. She said, I think you will be more effective if you work with that, with our students directly. And that will also relieve us to have one extra teacher that another with more evenly divide the workload.

[Assistant] I see. So you did, did you do any teacher training or?

[User] No, from the day we arrived.

[Assistant] Ok, so that went out the window.

[User] I think that was one of those hidden agendas that we didn't quite perceive to be so until it happened.

[Assistant] Was there any kind of exam that the students were required to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, from the day we arrived.

[Assistant] Ok, so that went out the window.

[User] I think that was one of those hidden agendas that we didn't quite perceive to be so until it happened.

[Assistant] Was there any kind of exam that the students were required to?

[User] Yes, there was a curriculum and there was an exam. And then you could have your own kind of mini. There wasn't there wasn't an overall exam, like a baccalaureate kind of thing. No, there was not it. But you had your you could devise your own curriculum and there were certain basic things that you had to cover.

[Assistant] I see. And so the students were at fifth and sixth grade. They were not trying to achieve the ability to pass an exam to the next level.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think that was one of those hidden agendas that we didn't quite perceive to be so until it happened.

[Assistant] Was there any kind of exam that the students were required to?

[User] Yes, there was a curriculum and there was an exam. And then you could have your own kind of mini. There wasn't there wasn't an overall exam, like a baccalaureate kind of thing. No, there was not it. But you had your you could devise your own curriculum and there were certain basic things that you had to cover.

[Assistant] I see. And so the students were at fifth and sixth grade. They were not trying to achieve the ability to pass an exam to the next level.

[User] No, no. They were not pressured to go in. No, but they were so good. I mean, they were, they were curious. They were studious. I think, you know, they realized they were lucky to be in school.

[Assistant] What was the alternative?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, there was a curriculum and there was an exam. And then you could have your own kind of mini. There wasn't there wasn't an overall exam, like a baccalaureate kind of thing. No, there was not it. But you had your you could devise your own curriculum and there were certain basic things that you had to cover.

[Assistant] I see. And so the students were at fifth and sixth grade. They were not trying to achieve the ability to pass an exam to the next level.

[User] No, no. They were not pressured to go in. No, but they were so good. I mean, they were, they were curious. They were studious. I think, you know, they realized they were lucky to be in school.

[Assistant] What was the alternative?

[User] In the farm, on the farm. And then they still did a lot of work. And as I said, they had their little brooms. They were they did the cleaning. You did not have a custodial staff.

[Assistant] So you administered tests and then graded them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. They were not pressured to go in. No, but they were so good. I mean, they were, they were curious. They were studious. I think, you know, they realized they were lucky to be in school.

[Assistant] What was the alternative?

[User] In the farm, on the farm. And then they still did a lot of work. And as I said, they had their little brooms. They were they did the cleaning. You did not have a custodial staff.

[Assistant] So you administered tests and then graded them?

[User] And then I would consult with the principal about the level of the rating.

[Assistant] Was it the custom there to give homework or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then I would consult with the principal about the level of the rating.

[Assistant] Was it the custom there to give homework or?

[User] Not very much, no.

[Assistant] Ok.

[User] Because many of them did not have electricity. In their homes, I mean, they might have lighting, but not that.

[Assistant] How was discipline?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not very much, no.

[Assistant] Ok.

[User] Because many of them did not have electricity. In their homes, I mean, they might have lighting, but not that.

[Assistant] How was discipline?

[User] Excellent, excellent.

[Assistant] You never had any problems?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because many of them did not have electricity. In their homes, I mean, they might have lighting, but not that.

[Assistant] How was discipline?

[User] Excellent, excellent.

[Assistant] You never had any problems?

[User] None.

[Assistant] Well, that's certainly unusual.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Excellent, excellent.

[Assistant] You never had any problems?

[User] None.

[Assistant] Well, that's certainly unusual.

[User] Yeah, well, that's I think that's why when I came to the States, I couldn't adjust to teaching in an inner city school.

[Assistant] So there was a stark contrast between the discipline of the Philippine students and what you found here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] None.

[Assistant] Well, that's certainly unusual.

[User] Yeah, well, that's I think that's why when I came to the States, I couldn't adjust to teaching in an inner city school.

[Assistant] So there was a stark contrast between the discipline of the Philippine students and what you found here?

[User] And the appreciation for education. At least the appreciation of being in school.

[Assistant] So tell me a little bit more about that experiment a little bit. You know how the Philippine students regarded their education versus what you feel?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, well, that's I think that's why when I came to the States, I couldn't adjust to teaching in an inner city school.

[Assistant] So there was a stark contrast between the discipline of the Philippine students and what you found here?

[User] And the appreciation for education. At least the appreciation of being in school.

[Assistant] So tell me a little bit more about that experiment a little bit. You know how the Philippine students regarded their education versus what you feel?

[User] I think one of the other factors is that the elders are very well respected. The teacher is almost God and the principal certainly is. And so the parents did not question the teacher's authority. And package that with the fact that many of the parents had never gone to school, so they were very. They cherish the fact that their children were in school and were not going to do anything to jeopardize that.

[Assistant] So did students ever complain or give you compliments?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the appreciation for education. At least the appreciation of being in school.

[Assistant] So tell me a little bit more about that experiment a little bit. You know how the Philippine students regarded their education versus what you feel?

[User] I think one of the other factors is that the elders are very well respected. The teacher is almost God and the principal certainly is. And so the parents did not question the teacher's authority. And package that with the fact that many of the parents had never gone to school, so they were very. They cherish the fact that their children were in school and were not going to do anything to jeopardize that.

[Assistant] So did students ever complain or give you compliments?

[User] Oh, they complimented me all the time. Yeah. Americans in the ‘60s, Americans were really at the top of their game in the Philippines as far because the Philippines had been an American protectorate. So we had a special place and there had been this group of teachers called the Thomasites earlier in the century that had helped to formulate the education system, the modern and more modern education system in the Philippines. And so we were considered almost the second coming of the Thomasites.

[Assistant] And that was a positive thing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, they complimented me all the time. Yeah. Americans in the ‘60s, Americans were really at the top of their game in the Philippines as far because the Philippines had been an American protectorate. So we had a special place and there had been this group of teachers called the Thomasites earlier in the century that had helped to formulate the education system, the modern and more modern education system in the Philippines. And so we were considered almost the second coming of the Thomasites.

[Assistant] And that was a positive thing?

[User] That was very positive.

[Assistant] That's good.

[User] The Thomasites where American teachers, I think they had a religious affiliation, but I don't recall that. But we can look that up.

[Assistant] Did the students have any extracurricular activities or sports?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was very positive.

[Assistant] That's good.

[User] The Thomasites where American teachers, I think they had a religious affiliation, but I don't recall that. But we can look that up.

[Assistant] Did the students have any extracurricular activities or sports?

[User] Mm hmm. I don't know if they did soccer, but they had little they did some baseball, and then when we had our camp, we taught them different games as well. But they did. They had their own little, they didn't have a formalized field, you know, with that was marked out for games. But you could say there was quite a bit of ground. I mean, we used that same school for the camp. There was quite a large, I don't remember how many students in all, but quite a large facility for it for an elementary school.

[Assistant] And the camp was conceived and executed by you and other faculty?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The Thomasites where American teachers, I think they had a religious affiliation, but I don't recall that. But we can look that up.

[Assistant] Did the students have any extracurricular activities or sports?

[User] Mm hmm. I don't know if they did soccer, but they had little they did some baseball, and then when we had our camp, we taught them different games as well. But they did. They had their own little, they didn't have a formalized field, you know, with that was marked out for games. But you could say there was quite a bit of ground. I mean, we used that same school for the camp. There was quite a large, I don't remember how many students in all, but quite a large facility for it for an elementary school.

[Assistant] And the camp was conceived and executed by you and other faculty?

[User] It was it conceived and executed by four of us in our household, four volunteers and three other volunteers in the nearby town. And the teachers, actually, it was their vacation. They weren't there. They didn't really participate in it. I mean, they mean that was not a negative thing. It was just they had their own schedule in their lives and most of them had family and children of their own.

[Assistant] Right. Right. Did you have any particularly memorable students or faculty members that stand out in your in your mind from that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm. I don't know if they did soccer, but they had little they did some baseball, and then when we had our camp, we taught them different games as well. But they did. They had their own little, they didn't have a formalized field, you know, with that was marked out for games. But you could say there was quite a bit of ground. I mean, we used that same school for the camp. There was quite a large, I don't remember how many students in all, but quite a large facility for it for an elementary school.

[Assistant] And the camp was conceived and executed by you and other faculty?

[User] It was it conceived and executed by four of us in our household, four volunteers and three other volunteers in the nearby town. And the teachers, actually, it was their vacation. They weren't there. They didn't really participate in it. I mean, they mean that was not a negative thing. It was just they had their own schedule in their lives and most of them had family and children of their own.

[Assistant] Right. Right. Did you have any particularly memorable students or faculty members that stand out in your in your mind from that time?

[User] Well, I think the principal and then another, Mrs. Bahramadia, who was a nearby school teacher and a neighbor. Yeah.

[Assistant] And what made them stand out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was it conceived and executed by four of us in our household, four volunteers and three other volunteers in the nearby town. And the teachers, actually, it was their vacation. They weren't there. They didn't really participate in it. I mean, they mean that was not a negative thing. It was just they had their own schedule in their lives and most of them had family and children of their own.

[Assistant] Right. Right. Did you have any particularly memorable students or faculty members that stand out in your in your mind from that time?

[User] Well, I think the principal and then another, Mrs. Bahramadia, who was a nearby school teacher and a neighbor. Yeah.

[Assistant] And what made them stand out?

[User] They always seem to be concerned about our welfare. They would tell us things that they thought we needed to know. They were more open, more frank than some of the others. Just who felt that they would they would be impolite for them to tell us that you need to do this. They gave us guidance. Everybody was very welcoming. That was the least welcoming was the landlord who had probably been cajoled into renting to us for the first place.

[Assistant] So overall, about your teaching experience in the Philippines, what did you like the most about it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think the principal and then another, Mrs. Bahramadia, who was a nearby school teacher and a neighbor. Yeah.

[Assistant] And what made them stand out?

[User] They always seem to be concerned about our welfare. They would tell us things that they thought we needed to know. They were more open, more frank than some of the others. Just who felt that they would they would be impolite for them to tell us that you need to do this. They gave us guidance. Everybody was very welcoming. That was the least welcoming was the landlord who had probably been cajoled into renting to us for the first place.

[Assistant] So overall, about your teaching experience in the Philippines, what did you like the most about it?

[User] I like the enthusiasm of the students. Their eagerness to learn. And they've disciplined. And they were they were quiet.

[Assistant] Was there anything that you could think of that you liked least about your job?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They always seem to be concerned about our welfare. They would tell us things that they thought we needed to know. They were more open, more frank than some of the others. Just who felt that they would they would be impolite for them to tell us that you need to do this. They gave us guidance. Everybody was very welcoming. That was the least welcoming was the landlord who had probably been cajoled into renting to us for the first place.

[Assistant] So overall, about your teaching experience in the Philippines, what did you like the most about it?

[User] I like the enthusiasm of the students. Their eagerness to learn. And they've disciplined. And they were they were quiet.

[Assistant] Was there anything that you could think of that you liked least about your job?

[User] No.

[Assistant] So how would you describe your relationship with the people of the Philippines as well as your work counterparts?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I like the enthusiasm of the students. Their eagerness to learn. And they've disciplined. And they were they were quiet.

[Assistant] Was there anything that you could think of that you liked least about your job?

[User] No.

[Assistant] So how would you describe your relationship with the people of the Philippines as well as your work counterparts?

[User] I think it was very positive and I think I learned a lot from the Philippines and the Philippines culture because they were so caring, so patient, and I think that that exposure has really helped me throughout my adult life and my career in learning how to listen and not jump in immediately with your own opinion, thinking that everything that's American is the best and that we’re always right. And they had a gentle way of reminding you that that wasn't so at all times.

[Assistant] How is the Philippine cooking?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] So how would you describe your relationship with the people of the Philippines as well as your work counterparts?

[User] I think it was very positive and I think I learned a lot from the Philippines and the Philippines culture because they were so caring, so patient, and I think that that exposure has really helped me throughout my adult life and my career in learning how to listen and not jump in immediately with your own opinion, thinking that everything that's American is the best and that we’re always right. And they had a gentle way of reminding you that that wasn't so at all times.

[Assistant] How is the Philippine cooking?

[User] Um, that is not my favorite part. They had certain. I liked the lumpia, which is kind of a spring roll and I liked the chicken adobo OK. The first thing I remember getting off the plane was the smell of garlic. I mean, the real smell of garlic. When I came back to the Philippines 15 years later in the Foreign Service, the first thing I remember is the smell of garlic. But there was a lot of Spanish influence in the food so that that roasted pig and some of that. But there were other things. You know, there's balut, which is a special egg that's been preserved underground. And then there's another egg dish that’s cooked when the chick is about to be hatched. Those those were my least favorite dishes and the actually dishes that I mostly avoided.

[Assistant] So you said your health was good physically?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Except, almost universally as a group. The women gained weight and the men lost weight. I guess, and there were certain things that we craved, for example, our cook cooked us breakfast every morning, but she cooked duck eggs and she wanted to make sure they were ready for us. So she cooked them maybe an hour before we were ready to eat them. So certain things were not as pleasant as could be, but we craved peanut butter and jelly and the only jelly we could find was guava jelly. So you couldn't get that taste satisfaction. So we take the rice, which was abundantly available, and then put sugar and put milk on it. Evaporated milk. So that didn't help our waistlines.

[Assistant] I'm sure. Tell me something about your correspondence with your mother while you're in the Philippines.

[User] Well, I, I didn't realize how much I had written to my mother. And I must have a hundred letters between, that she and I, between the two of us that we wrote. And I started writing her from the time I got to San Francisco until the last day that I was in the in the Philippines. It was very extensive and this also allowed her to get involved in helping me with the library and allowed her to relay to my family and friends what I was doing. So that was kind of my lifeline, I think, to being back home. And sometimes she would in the letter, she'd say, you sounded a little homesick in the last letter. It's time to perk up.

[Assistant] So she was able to give you emotional support.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] Even though there was a little bit of delay in that process.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I, I didn't realize how much I had written to my mother. And I must have a hundred letters between, that she and I, between the two of us that we wrote. And I started writing her from the time I got to San Francisco until the last day that I was in the in the Philippines. It was very extensive and this also allowed her to get involved in helping me with the library and allowed her to relay to my family and friends what I was doing. So that was kind of my lifeline, I think, to being back home. And sometimes she would in the letter, she'd say, you sounded a little homesick in the last letter. It's time to perk up.

[Assistant] So she was able to give you emotional support.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] Even though there was a little bit of delay in that process.

[User] And I also realized there was a shortage of writing paper. But we devised ways to use that thin air grams and write on the back of it, the side of it. But writing paper was an issue. Also, as I recall, looking back through the papers, one of the biggest expenses was, was postage back to the States.

[Assistant] OK. OK, during the Christmas holidays, what kinds of things did you do and why?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] Even though there was a little bit of delay in that process.

[User] And I also realized there was a shortage of writing paper. But we devised ways to use that thin air grams and write on the back of it, the side of it. But writing paper was an issue. Also, as I recall, looking back through the papers, one of the biggest expenses was, was postage back to the States.

[Assistant] OK. OK, during the Christmas holidays, what kinds of things did you do and why?

[User] We usually got together as a few a few households might get together. And one Christmas I remember spending with a Filipino family and they were so nice and so gracious. They knew that we like turkey, that we as Americans liked it. So they got this turkey that was not a butterball and fried it. And it was terrible. It wasn't one of those. But, you know, now we fry turkey in this big vat, but then they just fried it the way you would fried chicken it. I almost cried. I was so homesick that day. We had our moments.

[Assistant] Indeed. Did you go to the movies while you're there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, many times, many times. And, you know, we were treated as if we were royalty. I mean, the mayors, the town leaders. And even in the even in Manila, we often be invited to the homes of quite well-off Filipinos. And once I had met a friend who took me up in his plane. Kind of frightened me.

[Assistant] It gave you a different perspective from, um, in the in the second year of your service, was it the changes that or was it just another year of service?

[User] Well, the change, the change was mainly in the household because the two volunteers moved to another area and the one who moved to the high school meant that I was really alone in the town. I mean, I'd always been the lone teacher in the town, but I was alone. And had moved just a little bit on the outskirts of the town. But I was the volunteer there rather than, you know, before they always, you know, considered us four even though I was the only one actually working here. But they treated us as a group of four. And sometimes they'd come and get us and take us out to somebody's farm or some excursion. They were very, very kind to us. So that that was the difference. And when I changed households, houses rather, I had to start all over again in terms of getting some of the furniture together and redoing this kind of shell of a place that I'd rented.

[Assistant] When you were coming to the end of your service, how did you feel about what you'd accomplished?

[User] I felt I had learned so much, and then one of the last things I did during that time was the summer before I left, I worked at Asia Foundation sorting books in Manila. And so I had the chance to have this wonderful almost two month period of living in Manila and working in with Asia Foundation and staying in this boarding house. Another Peace Corps volunteer and I worked on this project. And so we had kind of it was kind of a glamorous into a more simpler living than we did in the in the in the town.

[Assistant] Do you ever have any thoughts of extending your service?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Started with training with a crew member in the science training things, and then procedure validations, pulling together the time line. These are all the things that happened the year prior, the procedures, getting to know the science, getting to know the crew member, and then working as a back-up operations lead on some of the other increments. I've done some of that work. Then head over to Russia to head up the operations team that was in place for Increment Seven.

[Assistant] How long was your training period?

[User] I started with David Wolf, because he was originally the Increment Seven crew member, or was supposed to be. He started training a year ago in January as the Increment Six back-up. So he started then.

[Assistant] Were you almost like his shadow? Did you go and do everything that he was doing?

[User] For the U.S. portion of his training, yes. The way it worked is, you were supposed to follow them when they were here in the U.S., and then you spent some time in Russia with them during the final portion of their Star City training.

[Assistant] What do you learn by being so close?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I started with David Wolf, because he was originally the Increment Seven crew member, or was supposed to be. He started training a year ago in January as the Increment Six back-up. So he started then.

[Assistant] Were you almost like his shadow? Did you go and do everything that he was doing?

[User] For the U.S. portion of his training, yes. The way it worked is, you were supposed to follow them when they were here in the U.S., and then you spent some time in Russia with them during the final portion of their Star City training.

[Assistant] What do you learn by being so close?

[User] You figure out how tightly wound they are, how they go about solving problems, how sticky they are about what the procedures need to say, what kind of answers they're looking for.

[Assistant] I guess this helps you communicate with them when you're on the ground and they're in the air.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] For the U.S. portion of his training, yes. The way it worked is, you were supposed to follow them when they were here in the U.S., and then you spent some time in Russia with them during the final portion of their Star City training.

[Assistant] What do you learn by being so close?

[User] You figure out how tightly wound they are, how they go about solving problems, how sticky they are about what the procedures need to say, what kind of answers they're looking for.

[Assistant] I guess this helps you communicate with them when you're on the ground and they're in the air.

[User] Yes, hopefully. Hopefully you can hear things in their voice you might not otherwise be aware of.

[Assistant] So at what point did you have your astronaut switch?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You figure out how tightly wound they are, how they go about solving problems, how sticky they are about what the procedures need to say, what kind of answers they're looking for.

[Assistant] I guess this helps you communicate with them when you're on the ground and they're in the air.

[User] Yes, hopefully. Hopefully you can hear things in their voice you might not otherwise be aware of.

[Assistant] So at what point did you have your astronaut switch?

[User] I think that was August of last year when we switched.

[Assistant] Was it like starting over, or were you able at least to take some of your experiences and apply them with Andy Thomas?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, hopefully. Hopefully you can hear things in their voice you might not otherwise be aware of.

[Assistant] So at what point did you have your astronaut switch?

[User] I think that was August of last year when we switched.

[Assistant] Was it like starting over, or were you able at least to take some of your experiences and apply them with Andy Thomas?

[User] It was just different. It wasn't really a big deal. Didn't need to be anyway. They're very different people, but the work's pretty technical, so it doesn't make it a whole lot of difference. There was some.

[Assistant] So it was just one more example of being flexible?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think that was August of last year when we switched.

[Assistant] Was it like starting over, or were you able at least to take some of your experiences and apply them with Andy Thomas?

[User] It was just different. It wasn't really a big deal. Didn't need to be anyway. They're very different people, but the work's pretty technical, so it doesn't make it a whole lot of difference. There was some.

[Assistant] So it was just one more example of being flexible?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was that a key word in what you did during your time as an ops lead?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was just different. It wasn't really a big deal. Didn't need to be anyway. They're very different people, but the work's pretty technical, so it doesn't make it a whole lot of difference. There was some.

[Assistant] So it was just one more example of being flexible?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was that a key word in what you did during your time as an ops lead?

[User] Yes. Yes, the whole program had a real short schedule, everything was pretty intense. When I came in, I was kind of surprised how tense people were, and just needed to relax a little bit. Well, that's why I always said, "Everything's going to be fine. Just relax. Nobody's going to get killed. It won't really matter."

[Assistant] They look for you for reassurance as well.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was that a key word in what you did during your time as an ops lead?

[User] Yes. Yes, the whole program had a real short schedule, everything was pretty intense. When I came in, I was kind of surprised how tense people were, and just needed to relax a little bit. Well, that's why I always said, "Everything's going to be fine. Just relax. Nobody's going to get killed. It won't really matter."

[Assistant] They look for you for reassurance as well.

[User] Well, in anything, you have to figure out what job you need to play, and if that's just being a speed brake, that's okay.

[Assistant] How did you get involved in this position?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes, the whole program had a real short schedule, everything was pretty intense. When I came in, I was kind of surprised how tense people were, and just needed to relax a little bit. Well, that's why I always said, "Everything's going to be fine. Just relax. Nobody's going to get killed. It won't really matter."

[Assistant] They look for you for reassurance as well.

[User] Well, in anything, you have to figure out what job you need to play, and if that's just being a speed brake, that's okay.

[Assistant] How did you get involved in this position?

[User] I had been working in ISS [International Space Station], the station program office, and I got a little burned out with that because we weren't doing anything with real hardware stuff. I went over to be Captain Culbertson's technical assistant. I had known him from my previous life in the Air Force. I was in his office just attending meetings, and they came in and were having problems getting people to go to Russia for five or six months doing that, and they kept coming in and saying this over and over again, and one day after one of those meetings, I just said, "Well, you know, I could go do it." And there I was. He said, "Hold that thought."

[Assistant] [Laughter] And you did for the next year.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, in anything, you have to figure out what job you need to play, and if that's just being a speed brake, that's okay.

[Assistant] How did you get involved in this position?

[User] I had been working in ISS [International Space Station], the station program office, and I got a little burned out with that because we weren't doing anything with real hardware stuff. I went over to be Captain Culbertson's technical assistant. I had known him from my previous life in the Air Force. I was in his office just attending meetings, and they came in and were having problems getting people to go to Russia for five or six months doing that, and they kept coming in and saying this over and over again, and one day after one of those meetings, I just said, "Well, you know, I could go do it." And there I was. He said, "Hold that thought."

[Assistant] [Laughter] And you did for the next year.

[User] Yes. That was actually like two years ago, probably by the time--

[Assistant] Did you get involved right away after you made that--


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had been working in ISS [International Space Station], the station program office, and I got a little burned out with that because we weren't doing anything with real hardware stuff. I went over to be Captain Culbertson's technical assistant. I had known him from my previous life in the Air Force. I was in his office just attending meetings, and they came in and were having problems getting people to go to Russia for five or six months doing that, and they kept coming in and saying this over and over again, and one day after one of those meetings, I just said, "Well, you know, I could go do it." And there I was. He said, "Hold that thought."

[Assistant] [Laughter] And you did for the next year.

[User] Yes. That was actually like two years ago, probably by the time--

[Assistant] Did you get involved right away after you made that--

[User] Pretty much. Yes.

[Assistant] Frank wasn't going to let you change your mind.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. That was actually like two years ago, probably by the time--

[Assistant] Did you get involved right away after you made that--

[User] Pretty much. Yes.

[Assistant] Frank wasn't going to let you change your mind.

[User] No. No. At the time I wasn't even sure I had used my outside voice to say that. [Laughter]

[Assistant] Frank heard you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Pretty much. Yes.

[Assistant] Frank wasn't going to let you change your mind.

[User] No. No. At the time I wasn't even sure I had used my outside voice to say that. [Laughter]

[Assistant] Frank heard you.

[User] Oh, yes, he did. He doesn't miss stuff like that.

[Assistant] So what happened from there? You volunteered for this assignment and then your activities started right away here, or were you sent right away to Russia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. No. At the time I wasn't even sure I had used my outside voice to say that. [Laughter]

[Assistant] Frank heard you.

[User] Oh, yes, he did. He doesn't miss stuff like that.

[Assistant] So what happened from there? You volunteered for this assignment and then your activities started right away here, or were you sent right away to Russia?

[User] It started here. I think at the time, that was right before Colonel [John] Blaha launched. So there was plenty of time. I think I had just about more time, because of the way the time line worked out, more time than anybody else to get ready pretty much. It was all evolving pretty fast, but pretty much right away started following things, and then we did training like in January, the first Increment Six backup training, and then in March I went over with Tony Sang for Increment Four to work over there for about six weeks.

[Assistant] Was that your first visit to Russia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes, he did. He doesn't miss stuff like that.

[Assistant] So what happened from there? You volunteered for this assignment and then your activities started right away here, or were you sent right away to Russia?

[User] It started here. I think at the time, that was right before Colonel [John] Blaha launched. So there was plenty of time. I think I had just about more time, because of the way the time line worked out, more time than anybody else to get ready pretty much. It was all evolving pretty fast, but pretty much right away started following things, and then we did training like in January, the first Increment Six backup training, and then in March I went over with Tony Sang for Increment Four to work over there for about six weeks.

[Assistant] Was that your first visit to Russia?

[User] No. I had gone quite a bit as part of my station work. I had gone several times, and the last time I went, I said I would never go again. [Laughter]

[Assistant] Never say never.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It started here. I think at the time, that was right before Colonel [John] Blaha launched. So there was plenty of time. I think I had just about more time, because of the way the time line worked out, more time than anybody else to get ready pretty much. It was all evolving pretty fast, but pretty much right away started following things, and then we did training like in January, the first Increment Six backup training, and then in March I went over with Tony Sang for Increment Four to work over there for about six weeks.

[Assistant] Was that your first visit to Russia?

[User] No. I had gone quite a bit as part of my station work. I had gone several times, and the last time I went, I said I would never go again. [Laughter]

[Assistant] Never say never.

[User] Yes, I'm not going to say that this time.

[Assistant] At least you had your first impressions of Russia behind you and you knew what to expect. Was it different being part of ISS compared to being part of Shuttle-Mir?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. I had gone quite a bit as part of my station work. I had gone several times, and the last time I went, I said I would never go again. [Laughter]

[Assistant] Never say never.

[User] Yes, I'm not going to say that this time.

[Assistant] At least you had your first impressions of Russia behind you and you knew what to expect. Was it different being part of ISS compared to being part of Shuttle-Mir?

[User] It was because, when you're having to do operations, you don't have as much time for posturing or any of that stuff; you just have to do something. When you're doing something like ISS, there's plenty of time, and everybody knows it, and they kind of pull each other's chain quite a bit.

[Assistant] So what was your average day like when you were the ops lead? Can you give us a couple of days, or just something so you can explain to us what your responsibilities were when you were in Russia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, really. [Laughter]

[Assistant] [Laughter] You've let us into a whole new insight of how this will happen.

[User] Oh, yes. He calls every morning, no matter where he is, whether he's on vacation or what. He was getting better towards the end. And then Jim [VanLaak] calls.

[Assistant] At least there's some consistency in your job.

[User] Then maybe Tim Baum calls, and then we're having the morning meeting where we're supposed to tell everybody that's happened, although by that time almost everybody knows. Then the afternoon shift comes in right before then, so we do like one big handover with everybody. Then you go home.

[Assistant] It sounds like at least everybody that was working the team communicated.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. He calls every morning, no matter where he is, whether he's on vacation or what. He was getting better towards the end. And then Jim [VanLaak] calls.

[Assistant] At least there's some consistency in your job.

[User] Then maybe Tim Baum calls, and then we're having the morning meeting where we're supposed to tell everybody that's happened, although by that time almost everybody knows. Then the afternoon shift comes in right before then, so we do like one big handover with everybody. Then you go home.

[Assistant] It sounds like at least everybody that was working the team communicated.

[User] Yes, pretty much. Very dysfunctional occasionally, but that's okay.

[Assistant] Was there so much going on sometimes it was hard to communicate everything? Or was it almost opposite where maybe not enough was going on communicate?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Then maybe Tim Baum calls, and then we're having the morning meeting where we're supposed to tell everybody that's happened, although by that time almost everybody knows. Then the afternoon shift comes in right before then, so we do like one big handover with everybody. Then you go home.

[Assistant] It sounds like at least everybody that was working the team communicated.

[User] Yes, pretty much. Very dysfunctional occasionally, but that's okay.

[Assistant] Was there so much going on sometimes it was hard to communicate everything? Or was it almost opposite where maybe not enough was going on communicate?

[User] Well, I think because of the past problems they had, our increment was pretty easy. I mean, we didn't have any major catastrophes. But because of the things that happened on the previous increments, and because the press then finds out things so quickly, everybody in the management chain requires instantaneous knowledge of what has happened to the current configuration of things, and everyone has to know more than anybody else. And they do not want to find out by watching CNN; they want to have heard it from you. So if anything of any potential significance happened, you wake them up.

[Assistant] I guess that all fell on your shoulders being the ops leader.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, pretty much. Very dysfunctional occasionally, but that's okay.

[Assistant] Was there so much going on sometimes it was hard to communicate everything? Or was it almost opposite where maybe not enough was going on communicate?

[User] Well, I think because of the past problems they had, our increment was pretty easy. I mean, we didn't have any major catastrophes. But because of the things that happened on the previous increments, and because the press then finds out things so quickly, everybody in the management chain requires instantaneous knowledge of what has happened to the current configuration of things, and everyone has to know more than anybody else. And they do not want to find out by watching CNN; they want to have heard it from you. So if anything of any potential significance happened, you wake them up.

[Assistant] I guess that all fell on your shoulders being the ops leader.

[User] Oh, it's not that bad now. Just another additional duty.

[Assistant] Just the responsibility. Speaking of communication, I guess Andy Thomas was glad to talk with you on the ground.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think because of the past problems they had, our increment was pretty easy. I mean, we didn't have any major catastrophes. But because of the things that happened on the previous increments, and because the press then finds out things so quickly, everybody in the management chain requires instantaneous knowledge of what has happened to the current configuration of things, and everyone has to know more than anybody else. And they do not want to find out by watching CNN; they want to have heard it from you. So if anything of any potential significance happened, you wake them up.

[Assistant] I guess that all fell on your shoulders being the ops leader.

[User] Oh, it's not that bad now. Just another additional duty.

[Assistant] Just the responsibility. Speaking of communication, I guess Andy Thomas was glad to talk with you on the ground.

[User] I hope so.

[Assistant] I'm sure after working with him that long you could tell if he was glad to hear a voice from Earth.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, it's not that bad now. Just another additional duty.

[Assistant] Just the responsibility. Speaking of communication, I guess Andy Thomas was glad to talk with you on the ground.

[User] I hope so.

[Assistant] I'm sure after working with him that long you could tell if he was glad to hear a voice from Earth.

[User] I think he was pretty isolated up there, so I tried to keep it relatively light, entertaining, and informative.

[Assistant] Your time in Russia, I'm sure, was full with this job. Did you have time to do anything else, anything that you wanted to do while you were there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I hope so.

[Assistant] I'm sure after working with him that long you could tell if he was glad to hear a voice from Earth.

[User] I think he was pretty isolated up there, so I tried to keep it relatively light, entertaining, and informative.

[Assistant] Your time in Russia, I'm sure, was full with this job. Did you have time to do anything else, anything that you wanted to do while you were there?

[User] I took my family over with me, and when we could, we'd go out and do other things. I kind of filled most of the squares and all the travels over there before seeing all these things, but I got to see them again taking the kids and go check them out.

[Assistant] How old were your children?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think he was pretty isolated up there, so I tried to keep it relatively light, entertaining, and informative.

[Assistant] Your time in Russia, I'm sure, was full with this job. Did you have time to do anything else, anything that you wanted to do while you were there?

[User] I took my family over with me, and when we could, we'd go out and do other things. I kind of filled most of the squares and all the travels over there before seeing all these things, but I got to see them again taking the kids and go check them out.

[Assistant] How old were your children?

[User] Eleven, nine, and four.

[Assistant] How did they adjust to being there? Did they enjoy it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I took my family over with me, and when we could, we'd go out and do other things. I kind of filled most of the squares and all the travels over there before seeing all these things, but I got to see them again taking the kids and go check them out.

[Assistant] How old were your children?

[User] Eleven, nine, and four.

[Assistant] How did they adjust to being there? Did they enjoy it?

[User] Overall, yes, I think so. They'll appreciate it a lot more later.

[Assistant] So you were there prior to the wintertime.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Eleven, nine, and four.

[Assistant] How did they adjust to being there? Did they enjoy it?

[User] Overall, yes, I think so. They'll appreciate it a lot more later.

[Assistant] So you were there prior to the wintertime.

[User] Yes, we got there in January.

[Assistant] That's real wintertime then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Overall, yes, I think so. They'll appreciate it a lot more later.

[Assistant] So you were there prior to the wintertime.

[User] Yes, we got there in January.

[Assistant] That's real wintertime then.

[User] Real winter, real cold. Yes.

[Assistant] What did they enjoy being there? Did they enjoy seeing the sights?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, we got there in January.

[Assistant] That's real wintertime then.

[User] Real winter, real cold. Yes.

[Assistant] What did they enjoy being there? Did they enjoy seeing the sights?

[User] Well, it started out, they're pretty much Southern kids, so they hadn't been around snow. So that was pretty good. Took them down to Red Square almost immediately, but they don't have the same appreciation for being in Red Square. They just don't get it at all. But we did go down there, and I took them from Red Square over to across the street from the Bolshoi, and it was snowing, and there was a statue of Karl Marx over here, and I turned around, and my son was making a snow angel on the sidewalk by Karl Marx. [Laughter]

[Assistant] It's nice to have children's expressions no matter where they are. [Laughter]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Real winter, real cold. Yes.

[Assistant] What did they enjoy being there? Did they enjoy seeing the sights?

[User] Well, it started out, they're pretty much Southern kids, so they hadn't been around snow. So that was pretty good. Took them down to Red Square almost immediately, but they don't have the same appreciation for being in Red Square. They just don't get it at all. But we did go down there, and I took them from Red Square over to across the street from the Bolshoi, and it was snowing, and there was a statue of Karl Marx over here, and I turned around, and my son was making a snow angel on the sidewalk by Karl Marx. [Laughter]

[Assistant] It's nice to have children's expressions no matter where they are. [Laughter]

[User] It's not something I would have thought of.

[Assistant] I'm glad he felt free to do what he wanted to.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it started out, they're pretty much Southern kids, so they hadn't been around snow. So that was pretty good. Took them down to Red Square almost immediately, but they don't have the same appreciation for being in Red Square. They just don't get it at all. But we did go down there, and I took them from Red Square over to across the street from the Bolshoi, and it was snowing, and there was a statue of Karl Marx over here, and I turned around, and my son was making a snow angel on the sidewalk by Karl Marx. [Laughter]

[Assistant] It's nice to have children's expressions no matter where they are. [Laughter]

[User] It's not something I would have thought of.

[Assistant] I'm glad he felt free to do what he wanted to.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How were your dealings with the Russians? You were the main focus, I guess, on this increment, so they came to you and you went to them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's not something I would have thought of.

[Assistant] I'm glad he felt free to do what he wanted to.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How were your dealings with the Russians? You were the main focus, I guess, on this increment, so they came to you and you went to them.

[User] I had felt pretty frustrated with them from previous increments. I thought we weren't really getting our money's worth, and I kind of wanted to make it a point that we were going to get our money's worth this time. I also felt like we didn't get treated equitably, shall we say, and I wasn't going to let that happen. I expected to get treated as a customer and as a future partner on the ISS. We had some degrees of success, some days more than others.

[Assistant] Did you deal with one person in particular, or did you have a whole array of Russian officials?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How were your dealings with the Russians? You were the main focus, I guess, on this increment, so they came to you and you went to them.

[User] I had felt pretty frustrated with them from previous increments. I thought we weren't really getting our money's worth, and I kind of wanted to make it a point that we were going to get our money's worth this time. I also felt like we didn't get treated equitably, shall we say, and I wasn't going to let that happen. I expected to get treated as a customer and as a future partner on the ISS. We had some degrees of success, some days more than others.

[Assistant] Did you deal with one person in particular, or did you have a whole array of Russian officials?

[User] Mostly the shift flight directors, and occasionally Victor Blagov. It depends on what you're working, who is the most effective place to go for what you're trying to take of.

[Assistant] So I guess your back-up training the times that you were there with Tony really served you well.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had felt pretty frustrated with them from previous increments. I thought we weren't really getting our money's worth, and I kind of wanted to make it a point that we were going to get our money's worth this time. I also felt like we didn't get treated equitably, shall we say, and I wasn't going to let that happen. I expected to get treated as a customer and as a future partner on the ISS. We had some degrees of success, some days more than others.

[Assistant] Did you deal with one person in particular, or did you have a whole array of Russian officials?

[User] Mostly the shift flight directors, and occasionally Victor Blagov. It depends on what you're working, who is the most effective place to go for what you're trying to take of.

[Assistant] So I guess your back-up training the times that you were there with Tony really served you well.

[User] Yes, that was good. I thought that was excellent. That was an excellent way to train people for following increments. I don't know who thought of that, but that was great. It was really a good idea.

[Assistant] I'm sure no day was dull, but at least you had a few surprises that were already out of the way, because you could see how it worked.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mostly the shift flight directors, and occasionally Victor Blagov. It depends on what you're working, who is the most effective place to go for what you're trying to take of.

[Assistant] So I guess your back-up training the times that you were there with Tony really served you well.

[User] Yes, that was good. I thought that was excellent. That was an excellent way to train people for following increments. I don't know who thought of that, but that was great. It was really a good idea.

[Assistant] I'm sure no day was dull, but at least you had a few surprises that were already out of the way, because you could see how it worked.

[User] Right. Just getting there and knowing in advance, we sit here, this is how we talk, this is--well, except I went over on Increment Four when Jerry wasn't talking to anybody. [Laughter] I hadn't actually seen anybody talk to him. You know who the shift flight directors are, you know where the room is, and all that. That was good.

[Assistant] Is there a way to train somebody for this position? I mean, if there was another increment, say, Increment Ten, and you were put in charge of getting the ops leads ready, what would you tell them that the needed to know to work this job and do it successfully?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, that was good. I thought that was excellent. That was an excellent way to train people for following increments. I don't know who thought of that, but that was great. It was really a good idea.

[Assistant] I'm sure no day was dull, but at least you had a few surprises that were already out of the way, because you could see how it worked.

[User] Right. Just getting there and knowing in advance, we sit here, this is how we talk, this is--well, except I went over on Increment Four when Jerry wasn't talking to anybody. [Laughter] I hadn't actually seen anybody talk to him. You know who the shift flight directors are, you know where the room is, and all that. That was good.

[Assistant] Is there a way to train somebody for this position? I mean, if there was another increment, say, Increment Ten, and you were put in charge of getting the ops leads ready, what would you tell them that the needed to know to work this job and do it successfully?

[User] They ought to spend a lot more time getting Russian language training. You don't need it on the job very much, but you have a life outside, and it's almost impossible to operate outside without speaking the language. It's just easier if you can get around. It helps to know what the flight director's really saying, because you get the filtered translated version, and you're not sure if somebody's adding some political correctness, or if he said, "Well, tell this dummy this," which I would like to know.

[Assistant] Was that an adjustment, itself working with translators?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Just getting there and knowing in advance, we sit here, this is how we talk, this is--well, except I went over on Increment Four when Jerry wasn't talking to anybody. [Laughter] I hadn't actually seen anybody talk to him. You know who the shift flight directors are, you know where the room is, and all that. That was good.

[Assistant] Is there a way to train somebody for this position? I mean, if there was another increment, say, Increment Ten, and you were put in charge of getting the ops leads ready, what would you tell them that the needed to know to work this job and do it successfully?

[User] They ought to spend a lot more time getting Russian language training. You don't need it on the job very much, but you have a life outside, and it's almost impossible to operate outside without speaking the language. It's just easier if you can get around. It helps to know what the flight director's really saying, because you get the filtered translated version, and you're not sure if somebody's adding some political correctness, or if he said, "Well, tell this dummy this," which I would like to know.

[Assistant] Was that an adjustment, itself working with translators?

[User] I had done it before, but you forget--if you're going to make some long statement and you're really mad, and you have to pause every few words, it's really hard to maintain your train of thought, especially if you're trying to make a point.

[Assistant] Loses that impact.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They ought to spend a lot more time getting Russian language training. You don't need it on the job very much, but you have a life outside, and it's almost impossible to operate outside without speaking the language. It's just easier if you can get around. It helps to know what the flight director's really saying, because you get the filtered translated version, and you're not sure if somebody's adding some political correctness, or if he said, "Well, tell this dummy this," which I would like to know.

[Assistant] Was that an adjustment, itself working with translators?

[User] I had done it before, but you forget--if you're going to make some long statement and you're really mad, and you have to pause every few words, it's really hard to maintain your train of thought, especially if you're trying to make a point.

[Assistant] Loses that impact.

[User] Well, you forget where the heck you were going. [Laughter]

[Assistant] That may be some training for future work.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had done it before, but you forget--if you're going to make some long statement and you're really mad, and you have to pause every few words, it's really hard to maintain your train of thought, especially if you're trying to make a point.

[Assistant] Loses that impact.

[User] Well, you forget where the heck you were going. [Laughter]

[Assistant] That may be some training for future work.

[User] Yes. You kind of wind -up thinking -I had a point to make but], man, I was mad when I started, but I cannot remember where I was going with it. [Laughter]

[Assistant] That might be a great topic for a psychologist to work on that one. [Laughter]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you forget where the heck you were going. [Laughter]

[Assistant] That may be some training for future work.

[User] Yes. You kind of wind -up thinking -I had a point to make but], man, I was mad when I started, but I cannot remember where I was going with it. [Laughter]

[Assistant] That might be a great topic for a psychologist to work on that one. [Laughter]

[User] You wonder if the other guy's sitting there just saying, "I don't know what this guy's talking about."

[Assistant] And then the poor translator. They have to sit there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. You kind of wind -up thinking -I had a point to make but], man, I was mad when I started, but I cannot remember where I was going with it. [Laughter]

[Assistant] That might be a great topic for a psychologist to work on that one. [Laughter]

[User] You wonder if the other guy's sitting there just saying, "I don't know what this guy's talking about."

[Assistant] And then the poor translator. They have to sit there.

[User] I wish they would tell you, "You're looking like an idiot." [Laughter]

[Assistant] They're just doing their job.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You wonder if the other guy's sitting there just saying, "I don't know what this guy's talking about."

[Assistant] And then the poor translator. They have to sit there.

[User] I wish they would tell you, "You're looking like an idiot." [Laughter]

[Assistant] They're just doing their job.

[User] Yes, usually, unfortunately, just being a translator.

[Assistant] You mentioned earlier that you had military training. Was that a little awkward for you at first to work with the folks that you had been trained at some point in time they were your enemy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I wish they would tell you, "You're looking like an idiot." [Laughter]

[Assistant] They're just doing their job.

[User] Yes, usually, unfortunately, just being a translator.

[Assistant] You mentioned earlier that you had military training. Was that a little awkward for you at first to work with the folks that you had been trained at some point in time they were your enemy?

[User] I had pretty much gotten over that. Pretty much. Early on I had a kind of hard time with them. I didn't care for them much.

[Assistant] Was that from the ISS?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, usually, unfortunately, just being a translator.

[Assistant] You mentioned earlier that you had military training. Was that a little awkward for you at first to work with the folks that you had been trained at some point in time they were your enemy?

[User] I had pretty much gotten over that. Pretty much. Early on I had a kind of hard time with them. I didn't care for them much.

[Assistant] Was that from the ISS?

[User] Yes. But once you get to know them, it's not so bad.

[Assistant] Was there a time during all this period that you were working, kind of a low time that maybe you wished that you hadn't told Frank, "I can do this"?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had pretty much gotten over that. Pretty much. Early on I had a kind of hard time with them. I didn't care for them much.

[Assistant] Was that from the ISS?

[User] Yes. But once you get to know them, it's not so bad.

[Assistant] Was there a time during all this period that you were working, kind of a low time that maybe you wished that you hadn't told Frank, "I can do this"?

[User] Yes, in March or in April, when the experiments were just really going south. The Russians were being very difficult, and Andy wasn't getting his e-mail, and I was burned out and tired. I think somewhere in there I offered to quit, too, because I just felt like nobody back here was listening. It was worse than just not listening; I felt like I was getting fought along the way, and I just told Jeff Cardenas, "Go find somebody else. I've had it."

[Assistant] How was it resolved for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. But once you get to know them, it's not so bad.

[Assistant] Was there a time during all this period that you were working, kind of a low time that maybe you wished that you hadn't told Frank, "I can do this"?

[User] Yes, in March or in April, when the experiments were just really going south. The Russians were being very difficult, and Andy wasn't getting his e-mail, and I was burned out and tired. I think somewhere in there I offered to quit, too, because I just felt like nobody back here was listening. It was worse than just not listening; I felt like I was getting fought along the way, and I just told Jeff Cardenas, "Go find somebody else. I've had it."

[Assistant] How was it resolved for you?

[User] Well, part way through that I thought, "I cannot leave, because that would really screw over Andy, so I can't leave." If they could find another lead, somebody else could take all the flak. So I'd really had it then. But things worked out. And I was right.

[Assistant] That period got over and something else happened.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, in March or in April, when the experiments were just really going south. The Russians were being very difficult, and Andy wasn't getting his e-mail, and I was burned out and tired. I think somewhere in there I offered to quit, too, because I just felt like nobody back here was listening. It was worse than just not listening; I felt like I was getting fought along the way, and I just told Jeff Cardenas, "Go find somebody else. I've had it."

[Assistant] How was it resolved for you?

[User] Well, part way through that I thought, "I cannot leave, because that would really screw over Andy, so I can't leave." If they could find another lead, somebody else could take all the flak. So I'd really had it then. But things worked out. And I was right.

[Assistant] That period got over and something else happened.

[User] Yes, we found out what was wrong with the experiment, found out they didn't know what they were talking about.

[Assistant] Was that a challenge itself to coordinate all the different disciplines that were now under your supervision? You had all these different people working different projects.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, part way through that I thought, "I cannot leave, because that would really screw over Andy, so I can't leave." If they could find another lead, somebody else could take all the flak. So I'd really had it then. But things worked out. And I was right.

[Assistant] That period got over and something else happened.

[User] Yes, we found out what was wrong with the experiment, found out they didn't know what they were talking about.

[Assistant] Was that a challenge itself to coordinate all the different disciplines that were now under your supervision? You had all these different people working different projects.

[User] It wasn't too bad, really, because the science people we had were overall pretty good. But there's a lot of things. People don't want to be confrontational, or they are burned out from working all the increments all along, so you end up with all these open questions, or some stupid idea comes down the pipeline that gets all the way to you, and you're the one that has to say, "No," or you're the point at which things get resolved, and after a while you think, "Couldn't somebody else apply a neuron to this somewhere along the way before I have to do this?" Then you've got this in-fighting going on over there, and you just want to choke the--my God. I'm sure it's just fatigue over there, partly, but it's resolving all the different disciplines. The technical side of the job is not that hard; it's dealing with all the people.

[Assistant] Everybody seems to have their own level of responsibility and I guess they feel like it's the priority.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, we found out what was wrong with the experiment, found out they didn't know what they were talking about.

[Assistant] Was that a challenge itself to coordinate all the different disciplines that were now under your supervision? You had all these different people working different projects.

[User] It wasn't too bad, really, because the science people we had were overall pretty good. But there's a lot of things. People don't want to be confrontational, or they are burned out from working all the increments all along, so you end up with all these open questions, or some stupid idea comes down the pipeline that gets all the way to you, and you're the one that has to say, "No," or you're the point at which things get resolved, and after a while you think, "Couldn't somebody else apply a neuron to this somewhere along the way before I have to do this?" Then you've got this in-fighting going on over there, and you just want to choke the--my God. I'm sure it's just fatigue over there, partly, but it's resolving all the different disciplines. The technical side of the job is not that hard; it's dealing with all the people.

[Assistant] Everybody seems to have their own level of responsibility and I guess they feel like it's the priority.

[User] Yes. Oh, yes. Yes. [Laughter]

[Assistant] Was that a nice way of saying it? [Laughter]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It wasn't too bad, really, because the science people we had were overall pretty good. But there's a lot of things. People don't want to be confrontational, or they are burned out from working all the increments all along, so you end up with all these open questions, or some stupid idea comes down the pipeline that gets all the way to you, and you're the one that has to say, "No," or you're the point at which things get resolved, and after a while you think, "Couldn't somebody else apply a neuron to this somewhere along the way before I have to do this?" Then you've got this in-fighting going on over there, and you just want to choke the--my God. I'm sure it's just fatigue over there, partly, but it's resolving all the different disciplines. The technical side of the job is not that hard; it's dealing with all the people.

[Assistant] Everybody seems to have their own level of responsibility and I guess they feel like it's the priority.

[User] Yes. Oh, yes. Yes. [Laughter]

[Assistant] Was that a nice way of saying it? [Laughter]

[User] Yes. The science guys think there shouldn't be any--what else could possibly have priority? Then depending on what day it is, Frank or somebody else might think, "Why are you working on science? The first thing you're supposed to be doing is this." "Oh." That's the way it has to work. Everybody pushes as hard as they can for their little sliver of the world. Somebody has to be the umpire. It's fun being the bad cop for a while, but after a while you don't think anybody really cares; they just want somebody to be the bad guy and handle it.

[Assistant] Was it easier to know that you knew there was a set amount of time you were going to be there, that it was only four months?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. The science guys think there shouldn't be any--what else could possibly have priority? Then depending on what day it is, Frank or somebody else might think, "Why are you working on science? The first thing you're supposed to be doing is this." "Oh." That's the way it has to work. Everybody pushes as hard as they can for their little sliver of the world. Somebody has to be the umpire. It's fun being the bad cop for a while, but after a while you don't think anybody really cares; they just want somebody to be the bad guy and handle it.

[Assistant] Was it easier to know that you knew there was a set amount of time you were going to be there, that it was only four months?

[User] Five months.

[Assistant] Five months.

[User] Yes, I don't know. It was good that there was a horizon out there. Yes, somebody would have gotten hurt if I had to stay on. [Laughter]

[Assistant] [Laughter] Maybe it's good you had the last increment.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Five months.

[Assistant] Five months.

[User] Yes, I don't know. It was good that there was a horizon out there. Yes, somebody would have gotten hurt if I had to stay on. [Laughter]

[Assistant] [Laughter] Maybe it's good you had the last increment.

[User] Yes, I think it is.

[Assistant] Did you feel from the Russians any hesitation from them that before you, there was another ops lead, and before that person there was another ops lead? Did they treat you the same as they did the one before? Or do you feel like there was some time in there that they had to get to know you before they treated you with respect?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I don't know. It was good that there was a horizon out there. Yes, somebody would have gotten hurt if I had to stay on. [Laughter]

[Assistant] [Laughter] Maybe it's good you had the last increment.

[User] Yes, I think it is.

[Assistant] Did you feel from the Russians any hesitation from them that before you, there was another ops lead, and before that person there was another ops lead? Did they treat you the same as they did the one before? Or do you feel like there was some time in there that they had to get to know you before they treated you with respect?

[User] I think they test everybody that comes in. They just see how much they can get away with. You should expect that going in. They get away with varying degrees of stuff with different people. Some of it, I think, they try on purpose, and some of it is just natural creep back to the way they want things to be unless told otherwise. But I think there is some of that. I personally think we should have somebody there in station, have somebody there for a longer period of time just for consistency, because that's the way their culture works. They've got to get to know people. When we're sending a person in every time, they know you're only there for so long, too. They're just as sick of you as you are of them.

[Assistant] Most of the folks you were working with had long tenure with their careers as far as the Russians are concerned?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think they test everybody that comes in. They just see how much they can get away with. You should expect that going in. They get away with varying degrees of stuff with different people. Some of it, I think, they try on purpose, and some of it is just natural creep back to the way they want things to be unless told otherwise. But I think there is some of that. I personally think we should have somebody there in station, have somebody there for a longer period of time just for consistency, because that's the way their culture works. They've got to get to know people. When we're sending a person in every time, they know you're only there for so long, too. They're just as sick of you as you are of them.

[Assistant] Most of the folks you were working with had long tenure with their careers as far as the Russians are concerned?

[User] The Russians?

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Oh, jeez, yes. Most of those guys were ancient, had been doing the same thing forever.

[Assistant] And the average age of your team members?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The Russians?

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Oh, jeez, yes. Most of those guys were ancient, had been doing the same thing forever.

[Assistant] And the average age of your team members?

[User] Yes, like in the low thirties, probably, maybe younger.

[Assistant] At least you had enthusiasm.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, jeez, yes. Most of those guys were ancient, had been doing the same thing forever.

[Assistant] And the average age of your team members?

[User] Yes, like in the low thirties, probably, maybe younger.

[Assistant] At least you had enthusiasm.

[User] Yes. [Laughter] That's a good thing.

[Assistant] And some of your team members, they had been there for a long time, or they just had returning trips?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, like in the low thirties, probably, maybe younger.

[Assistant] At least you had enthusiasm.

[User] Yes. [Laughter] That's a good thing.

[Assistant] And some of your team members, they had been there for a long time, or they just had returning trips?

[User] Well, my increment, it was a lot of the same people that had been rotating, so they were all pretty experienced with being there. I didn't have to deal with any of that.

[Assistant] Well, that helped.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. [Laughter] That's a good thing.

[Assistant] And some of your team members, they had been there for a long time, or they just had returning trips?

[User] Well, my increment, it was a lot of the same people that had been rotating, so they were all pretty experienced with being there. I didn't have to deal with any of that.

[Assistant] Well, that helped.

[User] Some of them were new, but overall the experience level was pretty high, and they all were fairly autonomous.

[Assistant] How is your Russian?