[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No married couples in it, though currently I think there are like six married couples out of it. One couple got married during Peace Corps and then three or four years after Peace Corps, they got divorced. But then out of that, out of the remaining, everybody, five or six couples from the, uh, from the group got married afterwards and they're all together still. So and I was, and my roommate got married. My Peace Corps roommate got married, oh, three or four months after he got back with a woman who was in the Peace Corps. And I was best man in his wedding. And, you know, it had, all the women wore saris and the men, we had tuxes, but it was an Indian themed wedding so.

[Assistant] Anything else around that? The project you were invited into, how you prepared yourself to go, and move away from your life for two years and?

[User] No. I remember going back and preparing before we. We were allowed to go home for two weeks or something like that, or a week before we left. And that happened to be around Thanksgiving. So we had a nice Thanksgiving. And I remember my dad, uh, buying me a leather satchel so that I could travel with it and keep my radio, because we bought a Zenith shortwave radio. I need to have, needed to have the radio. And we were told, of course, things to take and not to take at that time. And I went out and actually bought a whole bunch of warfarin, which is rat poison, because, you know, going to poison all the rats. And, you know, I think we didn't even use it or we did. I donated it to the ag college or something like that.

[Assistant] But you thought you would need it?

[User] Yeah, we were told, you know, I mean, not to take it, but this is on the list of things that you might want to take. And of course, you know, toilet paper, deodorant.

[Assistant] Did you take 100,000 rolls of toilet paper?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. I remember going back and preparing before we. We were allowed to go home for two weeks or something like that, or a week before we left. And that happened to be around Thanksgiving. So we had a nice Thanksgiving. And I remember my dad, uh, buying me a leather satchel so that I could travel with it and keep my radio, because we bought a Zenith shortwave radio. I need to have, needed to have the radio. And we were told, of course, things to take and not to take at that time. And I went out and actually bought a whole bunch of warfarin, which is rat poison, because, you know, going to poison all the rats. And, you know, I think we didn't even use it or we did. I donated it to the ag college or something like that.

[Assistant] But you thought you would need it?

[User] Yeah, we were told, you know, I mean, not to take it, but this is on the list of things that you might want to take. And of course, you know, toilet paper, deodorant.

[Assistant] Did you take 100,000 rolls of toilet paper?

[User] I took. Anything in my trunk that we, you know, we were all allowed a trunk to take over. I would compress it all and take up all the extra space in the trunk, that sort of thing. I wasn't overly concerned. And then I took two Sears catalogs, because that's what my great aunt and uncle used to use in their outhouses out on the farm, old Monkey Ward or Sears catalogs for toilet paper. And so I took.

[Assistant]
Two of those.

Two of those, or maybe it was one of those and a, and a, um, a telephone book.

Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we were told, you know, I mean, not to take it, but this is on the list of things that you might want to take. And of course, you know, toilet paper, deodorant.

[Assistant] Did you take 100,000 rolls of toilet paper?

[User] I took. Anything in my trunk that we, you know, we were all allowed a trunk to take over. I would compress it all and take up all the extra space in the trunk, that sort of thing. I wasn't overly concerned. And then I took two Sears catalogs, because that's what my great aunt and uncle used to use in their outhouses out on the farm, old Monkey Ward or Sears catalogs for toilet paper. And so I took.

[Assistant]
Two of those.

Two of those, or maybe it was one of those and a, and a, um, a telephone book.

Okay.

[User] Never had to use them, though. And I ended up giving them to the people that that wrapped the betel nut, the pond. And so for many years, I'm sure people got their pond wrapped up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay, so let's go into the entry, when you got to India, just the, um?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just I remember some of the, some of the surprises there. One that they served hot milk on cereal. So you order a bowl of corn flakes and they'd pour hot milk on it rather than cold milk. And that was, you know, hot milk so that you don't get TB from unpasteurized milk, of course. And I remember walking out to a little roadside, roadside post office to get some, um, air grams to write back home to start that process. And so I spoke to him in Hindi and he answered in English and I was deflated, of course. Like, oh damn, well, I can't pass yet. I thought it was wonderful. I got a big, big. It was, first I was in a bit of a snit and then I started laughing about it because it was like, come on, Reid.

[Assistant] You were trying and he was trying too.

[User] Yes. So it was, it was funny. It was really funny. And then we went off to, uh, after a couple of days of orientation, I don't really remember too much of that, except that we had, I had my picture in the paper listening to the Secretary or the equivalent, the Minister for Health and Family Planning or something like that. So my picture's been in the, in the New Delhi Statesman. My picture was also in the paper in Milwaukee. And in fact, I ended up getting my picture in the paper because of the Peace Corps for a lot of reasons, back when I trained and my picture was in the paper and the San Diego Union five years later. So it was, you know, all Peace Corps related.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure. And, um.

[Assistant] So first impressions?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. So it was, it was funny. It was really funny. And then we went off to, uh, after a couple of days of orientation, I don't really remember too much of that, except that we had, I had my picture in the paper listening to the Secretary or the equivalent, the Minister for Health and Family Planning or something like that. So my picture's been in the, in the New Delhi Statesman. My picture was also in the paper in Milwaukee. And in fact, I ended up getting my picture in the paper because of the Peace Corps for a lot of reasons, back when I trained and my picture was in the paper and the San Diego Union five years later. So it was, you know, all Peace Corps related.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure. And, um.

[Assistant] So first impressions?

[User] Well, my first, you know, all the smells, the colors, the noise, the freneticism. And I had been so steeped in culture that I just did my absolute very best to fit in. Um. The other surprise that I had at the, at the, at the hotel was that I bought some pants and, two pair of wash and wear pants, and had not tried them on and put them in the, uh, my luggage. And then I got up that morning to put them on and they were like four inches. I'd gotten the wrong size. So the waist was four inches too short. I couldn't get them on. Needless did I know that three months later those very same pair of pants would be hanging off of me because I lost so much weight. But, uh.

[Assistant] And why did you lose weight?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure. And, um.

[Assistant] So first impressions?

[User] Well, my first, you know, all the smells, the colors, the noise, the freneticism. And I had been so steeped in culture that I just did my absolute very best to fit in. Um. The other surprise that I had at the, at the, at the hotel was that I bought some pants and, two pair of wash and wear pants, and had not tried them on and put them in the, uh, my luggage. And then I got up that morning to put them on and they were like four inches. I'd gotten the wrong size. So the waist was four inches too short. I couldn't get them on. Needless did I know that three months later those very same pair of pants would be hanging off of me because I lost so much weight. But, uh.

[Assistant] And why did you lose weight?

[User] I was very sick. I, uh, in the first three months I probably got, well, I know I got bacillary dysentery. I was diagnosed with dengue fever at about the same time, and that was probably the first time I got amoeba. So I lost from about 180 down to 139 in three months, being sick and eating all that I could. And of course, we were there during the last two years of a three year drought. And so food was not really plentiful in our, in our village. But, uh.

[Assistant] How did that affect your ability to work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, my first, you know, all the smells, the colors, the noise, the freneticism. And I had been so steeped in culture that I just did my absolute very best to fit in. Um. The other surprise that I had at the, at the, at the hotel was that I bought some pants and, two pair of wash and wear pants, and had not tried them on and put them in the, uh, my luggage. And then I got up that morning to put them on and they were like four inches. I'd gotten the wrong size. So the waist was four inches too short. I couldn't get them on. Needless did I know that three months later those very same pair of pants would be hanging off of me because I lost so much weight. But, uh.

[Assistant] And why did you lose weight?

[User] I was very sick. I, uh, in the first three months I probably got, well, I know I got bacillary dysentery. I was diagnosed with dengue fever at about the same time, and that was probably the first time I got amoeba. So I lost from about 180 down to 139 in three months, being sick and eating all that I could. And of course, we were there during the last two years of a three year drought. And so food was not really plentiful in our, in our village. But, uh.

[Assistant] How did that affect your ability to work?

[User] Oh, well, you know, I don't think it affected me at all. I was just like, it was, it was part of, it was part of the whole, uh, adventure. And luckily enough, we were allowed to have a cook in India because if we didn't have a cook, we'd be spending all of our time going to the market and trying to get food and what have you. So that helped an awful lot.

[Assistant] So you got better?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was very sick. I, uh, in the first three months I probably got, well, I know I got bacillary dysentery. I was diagnosed with dengue fever at about the same time, and that was probably the first time I got amoeba. So I lost from about 180 down to 139 in three months, being sick and eating all that I could. And of course, we were there during the last two years of a three year drought. And so food was not really plentiful in our, in our village. But, uh.

[Assistant] How did that affect your ability to work?

[User] Oh, well, you know, I don't think it affected me at all. I was just like, it was, it was part of, it was part of the whole, uh, adventure. And luckily enough, we were allowed to have a cook in India because if we didn't have a cook, we'd be spending all of our time going to the market and trying to get food and what have you. So that helped an awful lot.

[Assistant] So you got better?

[User] Oh, sure. But I, but I, I had health problems the whole time I was in India, especially with amoeba.

[Assistant] Any others or was it just you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, sure. But I, but I, I had health problems the whole time I was in India, especially with amoeba.

[Assistant] Any others or was it just you?

[User] Some of them did. My roommate didn't. My roommate didn't. He lost a huge amount of weight, but he was never really sick and he was constantly constipated. And I constantly was the other way around. So I ended up using his toilet paper.

[Assistant] Rather than.

[User] Yes, yes.

[Assistant] So, okay. So now you were in New Delhi, you said, in the training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Some of them did. My roommate didn't. My roommate didn't. He lost a huge amount of weight, but he was never really sick and he was constantly constipated. And I constantly was the other way around. So I ended up using his toilet paper.

[Assistant] Rather than.

[User] Yes, yes.

[Assistant] So, okay. So now you were in New Delhi, you said, in the training?

[User] Yeah. And then we, and then we.

[Assistant] And the specific assignment, what was that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, yes.

[Assistant] So, okay. So now you were in New Delhi, you said, in the training?

[User] Yeah. And then we, and then we.

[Assistant] And the specific assignment, what was that?

[User]
And then we drove, we were taken by train down to a place called Jabalpur, the biggest city near my village. And then we were taken into the, uh, we met the, our, the district health official, the assistant civil surgeon. Her name was Madame Lele, L-E-L-E. And she had us go out and buy whatever we were supposed to need for our kitchen and that sort of thing. And of course, we made all the wrong decisions, but you know. They said, oh, you buy, she said buy plastic plates because you'll break the others. And so we bought plastic plates and the plastic in India disintegrated in three months. And so we went out and bought real plates and that worked fine.

But I remember going into the village and we were driven into the village probably about 11:00 at night. And all you could see were the kerosene Petromax lanterns, because there was no electricity in the village, and it was a medieval looking village. And we went to the health center where waiting for us was our, the physician who was to be our supervisor and a whole bunch of people there to welcome us. And, um, that was really a kind of a shock.

[Assistant] How many were there of you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just two, just, just the two of us. Right. And Tom Peterson was his name. And then taken over to this room that was in part of the gram panchayat. That's G-R-A-M P-A-N-C-H-A-Y-A-T. It's the village council building. They'd taken a room out of it to, for us to live in. And it was very, very small and very, very public. I mean, everybody in the village knew, if we sneezed, they knew. And the next morning we woke up and it was right across the street from the, from three schools and all the school kids, like 200 school kids, were standing out in the road outside the fence, getting a chance to look at us. I have a picture of it. It's really bizarre.

[Assistant] How did you feel?

[User] Fun. Little ticked off that I sort of, I'm sure stars have to, you know, wade through the paparazzi, you know. I felt sort of the same way, I'm sure. It didn't really bother me. And so we stayed in that house for, oh, about three months or so because we had to get a larger place and a less public place. I mean, it really was living on stage. And I got sick there for the first time and, um.

[Assistant] Everybody knew.

[User] Everybody knew. And I had to go out and they built a little outhouse in the back. And I went out there and it was really cold because it was in the December. This is where, it was cold enough there to freeze water on the, you know, crust, the water on the top of our buckets. And of course, we had no heat. And so here I was really sick and vomiting and I'd go out in the backyard and vomit and.

[Assistant] Break the ice.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Fun. Little ticked off that I sort of, I'm sure stars have to, you know, wade through the paparazzi, you know. I felt sort of the same way, I'm sure. It didn't really bother me. And so we stayed in that house for, oh, about three months or so because we had to get a larger place and a less public place. I mean, it really was living on stage. And I got sick there for the first time and, um.

[Assistant] Everybody knew.

[User] Everybody knew. And I had to go out and they built a little outhouse in the back. And I went out there and it was really cold because it was in the December. This is where, it was cold enough there to freeze water on the, you know, crust, the water on the top of our buckets. And of course, we had no heat. And so here I was really sick and vomiting and I'd go out in the backyard and vomit and.

[Assistant] Break the ice.

[User] And the, well, I was vomiting in the backyard, not on the in the water. And the, and the village, some of the village dogs snapping below me, trying to get, eat the vomit, fighting with each other, trying to eat the vomit because they'd come by. It was, it was pretty, it was pretty harrowing. And I, you know, I would yell at them and hurl at them, so to speak, and they'd go away with. And they'd fight over it with each other because they wanted to eat the vomit. They were hungry. They were hungry. And I think early on that was the, that was one of the times when I felt like, oh my God, what have I gotten myself into? When I was really sick. I'm out here in the middle of nowhere and really sick. And of course, the physician, an Indian trained physician, very fine doctor, gave me the medicine and I got better but.

[Assistant] What did this scenario look like? I have a sense of the room in this building. It's public and the schools and the backyard.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Everybody knew. And I had to go out and they built a little outhouse in the back. And I went out there and it was really cold because it was in the December. This is where, it was cold enough there to freeze water on the, you know, crust, the water on the top of our buckets. And of course, we had no heat. And so here I was really sick and vomiting and I'd go out in the backyard and vomit and.

[Assistant] Break the ice.

[User] And the, well, I was vomiting in the backyard, not on the in the water. And the, and the village, some of the village dogs snapping below me, trying to get, eat the vomit, fighting with each other, trying to eat the vomit because they'd come by. It was, it was pretty, it was pretty harrowing. And I, you know, I would yell at them and hurl at them, so to speak, and they'd go away with. And they'd fight over it with each other because they wanted to eat the vomit. They were hungry. They were hungry. And I think early on that was the, that was one of the times when I felt like, oh my God, what have I gotten myself into? When I was really sick. I'm out here in the middle of nowhere and really sick. And of course, the physician, an Indian trained physician, very fine doctor, gave me the medicine and I got better but.

[Assistant] What did this scenario look like? I have a sense of the room in this building. It's public and the schools and the backyard.

[User] And bamboo fences and dirt roads and tile roofs.

[Assistant] And the people, were they colorfully? What was it, was it like a plain environment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it went to, yeah. And the schedule of the hospital that I worked at was like that. There was a, there was a morning session, a big siesta for the lack of a better word. And then it would start up again and run to.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] No. We were asleep at 2:00, so. Start up again at 3:30 or 4:00 and run for two or 3 hours. And then it depends. And it'd depend upon the number of patients who were there and whether we closed at what time, that sort of thing. And then you'd, then the doctor would come down and sit. We lived above a pharmacy and, uh, our new house. After we moved out of the panchayat's house, the panchayat. And the doctor would come down and drink tea and he'd talk and see people who couldn't get into the hospital.

[Assistant] There was only one doctor?

[User] Yeah, only, well, there was, there was a traditional Ayurvedic doctor and then ours from the health center who was Western trained or trained in Western medicine. And we'd sit around and drink tea and tell stories and gossip and talk about politics and that sort of thing. And then we'd.

[Assistant] All in Hindu?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. We were asleep at 2:00, so. Start up again at 3:30 or 4:00 and run for two or 3 hours. And then it depends. And it'd depend upon the number of patients who were there and whether we closed at what time, that sort of thing. And then you'd, then the doctor would come down and sit. We lived above a pharmacy and, uh, our new house. After we moved out of the panchayat's house, the panchayat. And the doctor would come down and drink tea and he'd talk and see people who couldn't get into the hospital.

[Assistant] There was only one doctor?

[User] Yeah, only, well, there was, there was a traditional Ayurvedic doctor and then ours from the health center who was Western trained or trained in Western medicine. And we'd sit around and drink tea and tell stories and gossip and talk about politics and that sort of thing. And then we'd.

[Assistant] All in Hindu?

[User] Well, a mix, a strong mix of English and Hindi, mostly Hindi. But, you know, every once in a while it would be English. And then we'd eat about 9:00, 10:00 or so and go to bed. I'd read and go to bed. A lot of times, especially in the winter when it was easy to travel, we'd get into the hospital jeep and go out to the outlying areas to dispensaries and what have you, to do little education projects, that sort of thing.

[Assistant] First, tell me about the winter schedule as opposed to the summer schedule.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, a mix, a strong mix of English and Hindi, mostly Hindi. But, you know, every once in a while it would be English. And then we'd eat about 9:00, 10:00 or so and go to bed. I'd read and go to bed. A lot of times, especially in the winter when it was easy to travel, we'd get into the hospital jeep and go out to the outlying areas to dispensaries and what have you, to do little education projects, that sort of thing.

[Assistant] First, tell me about the winter schedule as opposed to the summer schedule.

[User] The winter schedule, you went to bed at 7:00 in the evening and got up at 9:00. I mean, I'm not sure whether these are the.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yeah, I mean, it was, it was when the sun was out, you were out, and you'd or people would get up at 7:00 in the morning and stand in the sun to get warm and drink tea. And then the day would start and then you'd go all day.

[Assistant] 7:00 p.m. or 7:00 a.m.?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The winter schedule, you went to bed at 7:00 in the evening and got up at 9:00. I mean, I'm not sure whether these are the.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yeah, I mean, it was, it was when the sun was out, you were out, and you'd or people would get up at 7:00 in the morning and stand in the sun to get warm and drink tea. And then the day would start and then you'd go all day.

[Assistant] 7:00 p.m. or 7:00 a.m.?

[User] 7:00 a.m. Yeah. You'd go, you'd work all day. And then when it got really, really cold, you'd get in bed. And you'd say. It was just the absolutely the opposite. Very much like living in winter here. You go to bed earlier and you sleep all at one point.

[Assistant] Were there mountains around?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I mean, it was, it was when the sun was out, you were out, and you'd or people would get up at 7:00 in the morning and stand in the sun to get warm and drink tea. And then the day would start and then you'd go all day.

[Assistant] 7:00 p.m. or 7:00 a.m.?

[User] 7:00 a.m. Yeah. You'd go, you'd work all day. And then when it got really, really cold, you'd get in bed. And you'd say. It was just the absolutely the opposite. Very much like living in winter here. You go to bed earlier and you sleep all at one point.

[Assistant] Were there mountains around?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Was it flat?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Was it flat?

[User] It was hilly.

[Assistant] Hilly.

[User] Hilly with some plains. They grew rice, chickpeas, wheat were the major crops. Water chestnuts in the, in the tank when it had water in it. I was vegetarian most of the time that I was there. Never ate any of the fish that came from the tank. I wasn't eating any of the fish that came from that tank.

[Assistant] Or anything else that came from the tank.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was hilly.

[Assistant] Hilly.

[User] Hilly with some plains. They grew rice, chickpeas, wheat were the major crops. Water chestnuts in the, in the tank when it had water in it. I was vegetarian most of the time that I was there. Never ate any of the fish that came from the tank. I wasn't eating any of the fish that came from that tank.

[Assistant] Or anything else that came from the tank.

[User] And we, and we would, we, uh, any time we ever had anything that was not vegetarian, it was usually in the big city close by.

[Assistant] Now, did you go to the big city?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hilly with some plains. They grew rice, chickpeas, wheat were the major crops. Water chestnuts in the, in the tank when it had water in it. I was vegetarian most of the time that I was there. Never ate any of the fish that came from the tank. I wasn't eating any of the fish that came from that tank.

[Assistant] Or anything else that came from the tank.

[User] And we, and we would, we, uh, any time we ever had anything that was not vegetarian, it was usually in the big city close by.

[Assistant] Now, did you go to the big city?

[User] I would go on a weekend once every three weeks or so. My roommate really did not like the village, and he went almost every weekend.

[Assistant] And what did you do on the weekend in the village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
I said, oh my, no, no, no. Which meant, Ken spit in the mouth of a young child. And what he meant was spit in the face of, but it was, you know, that was the term. And I said, no, he didn't do that. No, no, no, no, no, no. And finally I said, I don't believe it. And it turned out the child was the grandchild of the head of the village. So this was really not going on too well. And so I ended up. Ken came bicycling through and I said, what happened? And I said, did you spit in the kid's face? He said, yes, I did. I said, why did you do that? And he said, because he was taunting me. They were sticking sticks in my, in my bicycle spokes. And they were calling me laal bandar, which means red monkey, which is a derogatory term for, uh, that they used for English because they would turn red in the face and had sandy hair and it looked just like the monkeys in our village.

And so I had to do something. And so I said, okay, thanks. You shouldn't have spit in his head, in his face, but thanks for the information. And so I, they had a big meeting and the, they were yelling and screaming at me and I, uh, you know, Americans ra ra ra ra! And I said, this is my story. This is what I heard, because Ken was out of the village. We got him out of the village.

[Assistant] He wasn't a Peace Corps volunteer in the village?

[User] He was, no. He was a Peace Corps volunteer about 20 miles away. And, uh, so I told the head of the village what had happened. And so the head of the village brought his grandson in and said, what did you do?

[Assistant] How old was he?

[User] And he, and he confessed. Ten, 12, something like.

[Assistant] He told the truth?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was, no. He was a Peace Corps volunteer about 20 miles away. And, uh, so I told the head of the village what had happened. And so the head of the village brought his grandson in and said, what did you do?

[Assistant] How old was he?

[User] And he, and he confessed. Ten, 12, something like.

[Assistant] He told the truth?

[User] He told the truth. And so, and I said, and I apologized for Ken. He should not have done that. And then he made the little boy apologize to me. And so it, well, things were a little rough for a while after that. But, uh, and the kids, and I always when they called me laal bandar, I ignored them.

[Assistant] And what does that mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And he, and he confessed. Ten, 12, something like.

[Assistant] He told the truth?

[User] He told the truth. And so, and I said, and I apologized for Ken. He should not have done that. And then he made the little boy apologize to me. And so it, well, things were a little rough for a while after that. But, uh, and the kids, and I always when they called me laal bandar, I ignored them.

[Assistant] And what does that mean?

[User] Laal bandar, red monkey. And he, then he, because I tan a lot they suddenly said I was becoming Indian and really, you know, I wore Indian clothes and they said, oh you can pass. You look like you're a Kashmiri Brahmin, you know? You know, they really accepted me. And a lot of it had to do with my ability with the language. They continued to call my Minnesota blond, fair roommate laal bandar. But if they started.

[Assistant] Was that alright or was that a problem with the Peace Corps around looking like an Indian or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He told the truth. And so, and I said, and I apologized for Ken. He should not have done that. And then he made the little boy apologize to me. And so it, well, things were a little rough for a while after that. But, uh, and the kids, and I always when they called me laal bandar, I ignored them.

[Assistant] And what does that mean?

[User] Laal bandar, red monkey. And he, then he, because I tan a lot they suddenly said I was becoming Indian and really, you know, I wore Indian clothes and they said, oh you can pass. You look like you're a Kashmiri Brahmin, you know? You know, they really accepted me. And a lot of it had to do with my ability with the language. They continued to call my Minnesota blond, fair roommate laal bandar. But if they started.

[Assistant] Was that alright or was that a problem with the Peace Corps around looking like an Indian or?

[User] No. No, no, no, no, no.

[Assistant] So it was a positive thing that the Peace Corps was accepting?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
It was really interesting. We were sent there to do sanitation and build latrines, and nobody was interested in building latrines. Nobody in our village. And we had one. Several people had them, but absolutely nobody was interested in it. And I finally decided I'm going to, I'm going to stop hitting my head against the wall and do something else. And just do something else. I could, I could, I could do something unproductive for two years and not do anything, or I could do something that was more accepting. So I did, I did the, helped demonstration poultry flocks and kitchen gardens and also taught in the regional social work school and taught communication skills.

And we would put on family planning plays and puppet shows in the, in the villages. I helped the doctor train people to assist in vasectomies. This was not back when vasectomies were coerced. I never really believed that that happened, but I guess it did. That was all after I left. And I saw some pretty rough stuff. Really, really rough stuff.

[Assistant] Rough in the sense of?

[User] Well, I helped the doctor put a guy's guts back in his stomach after he'd been gored by a bull. It was a TB center. And so periodically I would have to help aspirate lungs. They'd stick needles into the, big, thick needles into the lungs, through the ribs in somebody's back, and then pull out pus from the lungs from TB. That, that was.

[Assistant] You started off by maybe wanting to be a physician.

[User] Well, I, I was, I was, I was very much. I wanted a medical group in India. So I could kind of test myself, you know, and, uh, and it's what I got. I actually refused. They said, you can go earlier if you'd like and go into a poultry group. And I said, no, I'll stay. I'll wait for this medical group. Ended up still doing poultry.

[Assistant] You said kitchen gardens and poultry what?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I, I was, I was, I was very much. I wanted a medical group in India. So I could kind of test myself, you know, and, uh, and it's what I got. I actually refused. They said, you can go earlier if you'd like and go into a poultry group. And I said, no, I'll stay. I'll wait for this medical group. Ended up still doing poultry.

[Assistant] You said kitchen gardens and poultry what?

[User] Raised poultry. I had, I had a, I had a demonstration flock of 400 chickens.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] And I did it by going into, getting, going into partnership with local farmers. I never took anything out of it, of course, but we got, I got special project money from the, from the Peace Corps. And we would build the, uh, the chicken huts, the coop, that was so huge. It was actually huge. And, and I would go in and politic with the, with the.

[Assistant] I was going to ask you, how did you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Raised poultry. I had, I had a, I had a demonstration flock of 400 chickens.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] And I did it by going into, getting, going into partnership with local farmers. I never took anything out of it, of course, but we got, I got special project money from the, from the Peace Corps. And we would build the, uh, the chicken huts, the coop, that was so huge. It was actually huge. And, and I would go in and politic with the, with the.

[Assistant] I was going to ask you, how did you?

[User] Politic with the, um, with the university, the ag extension, and get the ag extension people out to our village because they would, our village was not known to be receptive village. It was kind of far away from everything. And the ag people didn't like to go that far. And so I did an awful lot of, of sitting on the front doorsteps of the people in the ag.

[Assistant] How far away were they?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I did it by going into, getting, going into partnership with local farmers. I never took anything out of it, of course, but we got, I got special project money from the, from the Peace Corps. And we would build the, uh, the chicken huts, the coop, that was so huge. It was actually huge. And, and I would go in and politic with the, with the.

[Assistant] I was going to ask you, how did you?

[User] Politic with the, um, with the university, the ag extension, and get the ag extension people out to our village because they would, our village was not known to be receptive village. It was kind of far away from everything. And the ag people didn't like to go that far. And so I did an awful lot of, of sitting on the front doorsteps of the people in the ag.

[Assistant] How far away were they?

[User] About 45 miles or so.

[Assistant] So making that contact.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Politic with the, um, with the university, the ag extension, and get the ag extension people out to our village because they would, our village was not known to be receptive village. It was kind of far away from everything. And the ag people didn't like to go that far. And so I did an awful lot of, of sitting on the front doorsteps of the people in the ag.

[Assistant] How far away were they?

[User] About 45 miles or so.

[Assistant] So making that contact.

[User] Making it and continual and just continuing to go back and continuing to go there and buying the seedlings for the gardens and, you know, constantly being present, taking a trip in and meeting people there and just kind of like raising awareness. It's kind of like this.

[Assistant] Did you take some of the villagers with you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] About 45 miles or so.

[Assistant] So making that contact.

[User] Making it and continual and just continuing to go back and continuing to go there and buying the seedlings for the gardens and, you know, constantly being present, taking a trip in and meeting people there and just kind of like raising awareness. It's kind of like this.

[Assistant] Did you take some of the villagers with you?

[User] Most of the time, no. Most of the time, no. Sometimes it was kind of like the squeaky wheel gets the, gets the grease. Well, I was the squeaky wheel to get the grease into the, into, further into the region. They really didn't want to go off the road very far. And though there was a road that went to our village, it was still a pretty rough road and pretty far. And so they never would reach that from.

[Assistant] Did they have to know the leaders of the community?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Making it and continual and just continuing to go back and continuing to go there and buying the seedlings for the gardens and, you know, constantly being present, taking a trip in and meeting people there and just kind of like raising awareness. It's kind of like this.

[Assistant] Did you take some of the villagers with you?

[User] Most of the time, no. Most of the time, no. Sometimes it was kind of like the squeaky wheel gets the, gets the grease. Well, I was the squeaky wheel to get the grease into the, into, further into the region. They really didn't want to go off the road very far. And though there was a road that went to our village, it was still a pretty rough road and pretty far. And so they never would reach that from.

[Assistant] Did they have to know the leaders of the community?

[User] Yes. Yeah.

[Assistant] Like what was the doctor's name, for example?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Most of the time, no. Most of the time, no. Sometimes it was kind of like the squeaky wheel gets the, gets the grease. Well, I was the squeaky wheel to get the grease into the, into, further into the region. They really didn't want to go off the road very far. And though there was a road that went to our village, it was still a pretty rough road and pretty far. And so they never would reach that from.

[Assistant] Did they have to know the leaders of the community?

[User] Yes. Yeah.

[Assistant] Like what was the doctor's name, for example?

[User] Oh, his name? His name was Prafulla Dagat, P-R-A-F-U-L- L-A D-A-G-A-T. And.

[Assistant] Was he someone that invited you over for dinner to his place?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yeah.

[Assistant] Like what was the doctor's name, for example?

[User] Oh, his name? His name was Prafulla Dagat, P-R-A-F-U-L- L-A D-A-G-A-T. And.

[Assistant] Was he someone that invited you over for dinner to his place?

[User] Oh, he was, well, he was my supervisor, and we would eat at his place.

[Assistant] Do you have any personal contact with him?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, his name? His name was Prafulla Dagat, P-R-A-F-U-L- L-A D-A-G-A-T. And.

[Assistant] Was he someone that invited you over for dinner to his place?

[User] Oh, he was, well, he was my supervisor, and we would eat at his place.

[Assistant] Do you have any personal contact with him?

[User] Oh, absolutely. In fact, in fact, uh, a year ago, I went to Houston, Texas, to visit him because he was in the United States to visit his daughter, his first trip to the United States. So it's now 35 years later. I still have contact with him. We actually, you know, if you believe in past lives or kind of you meet somebody in your life every once and there's a special attraction or an energy or something there that. The doctor and I, the doctor and I had that, whatever that was.

[Assistant] You hadn't kept in touch during that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, he was, well, he was my supervisor, and we would eat at his place.

[Assistant] Do you have any personal contact with him?

[User] Oh, absolutely. In fact, in fact, uh, a year ago, I went to Houston, Texas, to visit him because he was in the United States to visit his daughter, his first trip to the United States. So it's now 35 years later. I still have contact with him. We actually, you know, if you believe in past lives or kind of you meet somebody in your life every once and there's a special attraction or an energy or something there that. The doctor and I, the doctor and I had that, whatever that was.

[Assistant] You hadn't kept in touch during that time?

[User] Oh, yes, absolutely. Every, every few years. Not constantly, but every, but every few years.

[Assistant] And you worked well together from the very beginning?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, absolutely. In fact, in fact, uh, a year ago, I went to Houston, Texas, to visit him because he was in the United States to visit his daughter, his first trip to the United States. So it's now 35 years later. I still have contact with him. We actually, you know, if you believe in past lives or kind of you meet somebody in your life every once and there's a special attraction or an energy or something there that. The doctor and I, the doctor and I had that, whatever that was.

[Assistant] You hadn't kept in touch during that time?

[User] Oh, yes, absolutely. Every, every few years. Not constantly, but every, but every few years.

[Assistant] And you worked well together from the very beginning?

[User] Absolutely. Absolutely. And his wife. In traditional Indian culture, ancient Indian culture, if a man dies and leaves a widow without a child, then it is the duty of the younger brother to provide that woman with a child, i.e. sleep with her. So that she gets pregnant. And that child is not his child. It's his older brother's child.

[Assistant] The one that died.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Absolutely. Absolutely. And his wife. In traditional Indian culture, ancient Indian culture, if a man dies and leaves a widow without a child, then it is the duty of the younger brother to provide that woman with a child, i.e. sleep with her. So that she gets pregnant. And that child is not his child. It's his older brother's child.

[Assistant] The one that died.

[User] The one that died. So there is, that's very old tradition. Now, what, what, what's the remnant of that in the culture is that there is something called bhabhi-devar, B-H-A-B-I D-E-W-A-R [sic] relationship, and that's between a woman and her husband's younger brother.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] Okay? So I was considered his wife's younger brother. And so there were several times, one time when she got very sick and had to go to the, to the city. Um, she, I accompanied her. No other. And that was okay. She, no other man who is not in the, in the family could accompany her, but I could because I was considered by everyone to be his younger brother.

[Assistant] Now, that was an overt thing that grew out of the friendship that you were?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The one that died. So there is, that's very old tradition. Now, what, what, what's the remnant of that in the culture is that there is something called bhabhi-devar, B-H-A-B-I D-E-W-A-R [sic] relationship, and that's between a woman and her husband's younger brother.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] Okay? So I was considered his wife's younger brother. And so there were several times, one time when she got very sick and had to go to the, to the city. Um, she, I accompanied her. No other. And that was okay. She, no other man who is not in the, in the family could accompany her, but I could because I was considered by everyone to be his younger brother.

[Assistant] Now, that was an overt thing that grew out of the friendship that you were?

[User] Well, there's, there was, there was a, there's something in India called fictive kinship. And if you, everybody is related to in some way as either if you're close as family. So all of his kids. In fact, all of his brothers' and sisters' kids called me chacha, which means father's younger brother. It's uncle.

[Assistant] Did this man say, I want you to be?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Okay? So I was considered his wife's younger brother. And so there were several times, one time when she got very sick and had to go to the, to the city. Um, she, I accompanied her. No other. And that was okay. She, no other man who is not in the, in the family could accompany her, but I could because I was considered by everyone to be his younger brother.

[Assistant] Now, that was an overt thing that grew out of the friendship that you were?

[User] Well, there's, there was, there was a, there's something in India called fictive kinship. And if you, everybody is related to in some way as either if you're close as family. So all of his kids. In fact, all of his brothers' and sisters' kids called me chacha, which means father's younger brother. It's uncle.

[Assistant] Did this man say, I want you to be?

[User] No, he didn't say it. It just happens.

[Assistant] It just happens.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, there's, there was, there was a, there's something in India called fictive kinship. And if you, everybody is related to in some way as either if you're close as family. So all of his kids. In fact, all of his brothers' and sisters' kids called me chacha, which means father's younger brother. It's uncle.

[Assistant] Did this man say, I want you to be?

[User] No, he didn't say it. It just happens.

[Assistant] It just happens.

[User] It just happens. Yeah. Yeah. And in traditional India, men are not generally allowed into the kitchens except the brother's younger. I mean, the husband's younger brother can go in and be in the kitchen with the wife. So there's this left over relationship that's there.

[Assistant] But it's also safe, this person?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, he didn't say it. It just happens.

[Assistant] It just happens.

[User] It just happens. Yeah. Yeah. And in traditional India, men are not generally allowed into the kitchens except the brother's younger. I mean, the husband's younger brother can go in and be in the kitchen with the wife. So there's this left over relationship that's there.

[Assistant] But it's also safe, this person?

[User] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And you. And there's, there's usually a lot of teasing between that woman and the man, you know, the bhabhi and the devar. There's a lot of teasing. And his, and Dr. Dagat's wife, Sudha, had a really wicked sense of humor. And she, we would tease each other, no end. So.

[Assistant] That was the family that you knew the best there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It just happens. Yeah. Yeah. And in traditional India, men are not generally allowed into the kitchens except the brother's younger. I mean, the husband's younger brother can go in and be in the kitchen with the wife. So there's this left over relationship that's there.

[Assistant] But it's also safe, this person?

[User] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And you. And there's, there's usually a lot of teasing between that woman and the man, you know, the bhabhi and the devar. There's a lot of teasing. And his, and Dr. Dagat's wife, Sudha, had a really wicked sense of humor. And she, we would tease each other, no end. So.

[Assistant] That was the family that you knew the best there?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did you know other people there or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And you. And there's, there's usually a lot of teasing between that woman and the man, you know, the bhabhi and the devar. There's a lot of teasing. And his, and Dr. Dagat's wife, Sudha, had a really wicked sense of humor. And she, we would tease each other, no end. So.

[Assistant] That was the family that you knew the best there?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did you know other people there or?

[User] Sure, lots of other people, but none like this. None like this.

[Assistant] The Peace Corps director, did he come out or did she come out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did you know other people there or?

[User] Sure, lots of other people, but none like this. None like this.

[Assistant] The Peace Corps director, did he come out or did she come out?

[User] Well, you know, Peace Corps in India was really big at that time. And so it was divided into five regions, four or five regions, and each of those regions was as big or bigger than a whole country in another, you know, another place.

[Assistant] Was there a regional director?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure, lots of other people, but none like this. None like this.

[Assistant] The Peace Corps director, did he come out or did she come out?

[User] Well, you know, Peace Corps in India was really big at that time. And so it was divided into five regions, four or five regions, and each of those regions was as big or bigger than a whole country in another, you know, another place.

[Assistant] Was there a regional director?

[User] Yeah, there was a regional director in Bhopal.

[Assistant] Did you see them much? Did they come visit you? Did you go see them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you know, Peace Corps in India was really big at that time. And so it was divided into five regions, four or five regions, and each of those regions was as big or bigger than a whole country in another, you know, another place.

[Assistant] Was there a regional director?

[User] Yeah, there was a regional director in Bhopal.

[Assistant] Did you see them much? Did they come visit you? Did you go see them?

[User] Not, not much. We were really way out there. We did not, we did. First of all, it was a 24 hour train ride across the state to, or not 24 hours, but it was probably about, it's a 24 hour trip. You had to go to the bus stop, ride the bus in, get the train, you know. I think our Peace Corps director or regional director visited once in the two times, two years that I was there. And the country director never visited, of course. And then our, the Peace Corps nurse came two or three times to give us our gamma globulin shot, of course.

[Assistant] But did you go and meet volunteers from other villages?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, there was a regional director in Bhopal.

[Assistant] Did you see them much? Did they come visit you? Did you go see them?

[User] Not, not much. We were really way out there. We did not, we did. First of all, it was a 24 hour train ride across the state to, or not 24 hours, but it was probably about, it's a 24 hour trip. You had to go to the bus stop, ride the bus in, get the train, you know. I think our Peace Corps director or regional director visited once in the two times, two years that I was there. And the country director never visited, of course. And then our, the Peace Corps nurse came two or three times to give us our gamma globulin shot, of course.

[Assistant] But did you go and meet volunteers from other villages?

[User] Not much. And our group was so spread out that in the central area we would go. And should there be another volunteer from our group or from some other group in the village, we could, we would see them in the big city. And there was one, one couple of guys that lived in the big city that had several rooms, and we'd all sort of camp out in their rooms. They had a couple of extra beds and we'd all roll our sleeping bags and sleep on the floor.

[Assistant] But that didn't happen very often?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not, not much. We were really way out there. We did not, we did. First of all, it was a 24 hour train ride across the state to, or not 24 hours, but it was probably about, it's a 24 hour trip. You had to go to the bus stop, ride the bus in, get the train, you know. I think our Peace Corps director or regional director visited once in the two times, two years that I was there. And the country director never visited, of course. And then our, the Peace Corps nurse came two or three times to give us our gamma globulin shot, of course.

[Assistant] But did you go and meet volunteers from other villages?

[User] Not much. And our group was so spread out that in the central area we would go. And should there be another volunteer from our group or from some other group in the village, we could, we would see them in the big city. And there was one, one couple of guys that lived in the big city that had several rooms, and we'd all sort of camp out in their rooms. They had a couple of extra beds and we'd all roll our sleeping bags and sleep on the floor.

[Assistant] But that didn't happen very often?

[User] Well, for Tom it was almost every weekend. And for me, it was every three weeks or so. And sometimes the people would be there and sometimes they wouldn't.

[Assistant] So at the end of the first year, you were feeling better. You gotten through your illness, you had moved to another place that was better than the public place that was small.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not much. And our group was so spread out that in the central area we would go. And should there be another volunteer from our group or from some other group in the village, we could, we would see them in the big city. And there was one, one couple of guys that lived in the big city that had several rooms, and we'd all sort of camp out in their rooms. They had a couple of extra beds and we'd all roll our sleeping bags and sleep on the floor.

[Assistant] But that didn't happen very often?

[User] Well, for Tom it was almost every weekend. And for me, it was every three weeks or so. And sometimes the people would be there and sometimes they wouldn't.

[Assistant] So at the end of the first year, you were feeling better. You gotten through your illness, you had moved to another place that was better than the public place that was small.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And you had changed projects.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, for Tom it was almost every weekend. And for me, it was every three weeks or so. And sometimes the people would be there and sometimes they wouldn't.

[Assistant] So at the end of the first year, you were feeling better. You gotten through your illness, you had moved to another place that was better than the public place that was small.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And you had changed projects.

[User] Oh, it turned out the whole time I was there, we just. Everything that we could, anything we could come up with to do, we'd do.

[Assistant] So you created.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And you had changed projects.

[User] Oh, it turned out the whole time I was there, we just. Everything that we could, anything we could come up with to do, we'd do.

[Assistant] So you created.

[User] Oh, we, yeah, it was like you had to, you know, they told us in training you're going to create your own job.

[Assistant] So like what did you do in the hospital?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, it turned out the whole time I was there, we just. Everything that we could, anything we could come up with to do, we'd do.

[Assistant] So you created.

[User] Oh, we, yeah, it was like you had to, you know, they told us in training you're going to create your own job.

[Assistant] So like what did you do in the hospital?

[User] Um.

[Assistant] What was that like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, we, yeah, it was like you had to, you know, they told us in training you're going to create your own job.

[Assistant] So like what did you do in the hospital?

[User] Um.

[Assistant] What was that like?

[User] A lot of times it was assist, uh, in the medical procedures. You know, give shots because we were trying to give shots and stuff like that. We, uh. I know one project it took a couple of months to do was to straighten the hospital up and make it look like a hospital and repaint it and reorganize it so that things would flow better and people wouldn't be stumbling over each other. And, you know, all of the lines of patients that would come in from one direction and leave in another direction, rather going down this tiny little hall. It was actually like open verandas was what it really was. It was no enclosed halls, but there were always people stumbling over each other. And I said, well, here's this logical traffic flow kind of guy coming in. And we kind of reorganized things like that. I mean, we did things like that.

[Assistant] So there was always imagination and creativity going on. Did you have times when you couldn't think of anything or there wasn't?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um.

[Assistant] What was that like?

[User] A lot of times it was assist, uh, in the medical procedures. You know, give shots because we were trying to give shots and stuff like that. We, uh. I know one project it took a couple of months to do was to straighten the hospital up and make it look like a hospital and repaint it and reorganize it so that things would flow better and people wouldn't be stumbling over each other. And, you know, all of the lines of patients that would come in from one direction and leave in another direction, rather going down this tiny little hall. It was actually like open verandas was what it really was. It was no enclosed halls, but there were always people stumbling over each other. And I said, well, here's this logical traffic flow kind of guy coming in. And we kind of reorganized things like that. I mean, we did things like that.

[Assistant] So there was always imagination and creativity going on. Did you have times when you couldn't think of anything or there wasn't?

[User] Oh, yeah, there were, there were some times like, oh, what the heck is going to go on? I'm going to, it's been a week and I haven't done anything. Or we started something and I'm going to have to shepherd this through the regional government. And so I really want to get it started in a week, but it's going to really take four months before I can get permission. And I have got to go and sit on somebody's doorstep to do something. So.

[Assistant] So did you take trips and go to other neighboring countries?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A lot of times it was assist, uh, in the medical procedures. You know, give shots because we were trying to give shots and stuff like that. We, uh. I know one project it took a couple of months to do was to straighten the hospital up and make it look like a hospital and repaint it and reorganize it so that things would flow better and people wouldn't be stumbling over each other. And, you know, all of the lines of patients that would come in from one direction and leave in another direction, rather going down this tiny little hall. It was actually like open verandas was what it really was. It was no enclosed halls, but there were always people stumbling over each other. And I said, well, here's this logical traffic flow kind of guy coming in. And we kind of reorganized things like that. I mean, we did things like that.

[Assistant] So there was always imagination and creativity going on. Did you have times when you couldn't think of anything or there wasn't?

[User] Oh, yeah, there were, there were some times like, oh, what the heck is going to go on? I'm going to, it's been a week and I haven't done anything. Or we started something and I'm going to have to shepherd this through the regional government. And so I really want to get it started in a week, but it's going to really take four months before I can get permission. And I have got to go and sit on somebody's doorstep to do something. So.

[Assistant] So did you take trips and go to other neighboring countries?

[User] Oh, we were not allowed to go out of the country without, without special permission. And, uh, we.

[Assistant] Did you go on vacation?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah, there were, there were some times like, oh, what the heck is going to go on? I'm going to, it's been a week and I haven't done anything. Or we started something and I'm going to have to shepherd this through the regional government. And so I really want to get it started in a week, but it's going to really take four months before I can get permission. And I have got to go and sit on somebody's doorstep to do something. So.

[Assistant] So did you take trips and go to other neighboring countries?

[User] Oh, we were not allowed to go out of the country without, without special permission. And, uh, we.

[Assistant] Did you go on vacation?

[User] I went on vacation. I traveled all over India, periodically, still had a lot of time left to, you know, the official time left. I was not out of sight very much at all. And I must admit, I did feel a little bit holier than thou about that compared to some of the other people who were traveling around a little bit too long.

[Assistant] But you had a real determination from the very beginning to go there and to do a certain piece of work.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, we were not allowed to go out of the country without, without special permission. And, uh, we.

[Assistant] Did you go on vacation?

[User] I went on vacation. I traveled all over India, periodically, still had a lot of time left to, you know, the official time left. I was not out of sight very much at all. And I must admit, I did feel a little bit holier than thou about that compared to some of the other people who were traveling around a little bit too long.

[Assistant] But you had a real determination from the very beginning to go there and to do a certain piece of work.

[User] Yes, yes, yes.

[Assistant] And then there was lots of imagination, creativity. So you were pretty stimulated.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I went on vacation. I traveled all over India, periodically, still had a lot of time left to, you know, the official time left. I was not out of sight very much at all. And I must admit, I did feel a little bit holier than thou about that compared to some of the other people who were traveling around a little bit too long.

[Assistant] But you had a real determination from the very beginning to go there and to do a certain piece of work.

[User] Yes, yes, yes.

[Assistant] And then there was lots of imagination, creativity. So you were pretty stimulated.

[User] I loved it. I loved it.

[Assistant] So you had a really.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, yes, yes.

[Assistant] And then there was lots of imagination, creativity. So you were pretty stimulated.

[User] I loved it. I loved it.

[Assistant] So you had a really.

[User] So, and I was, you know, I made a mark. I don't know what the mark is today, but I certainly, I certainly made a mark on the Dagat family. I hear from his daughter in Houston now that there is, there are legends about me amongst his family, the Dagat family, everybody. And I said, I don't remember any of this. But she said, oh, but there are stories. And it's nice. It's, it's, it's, yeah. You know, I think, I think some of the things that that happened. Being sick. The doctor, the doctor's wife lost a child that was born and died two, three, two or three days later. Going through a lot of that stuff with them, you know, that makes you family. That makes you real family.

[Assistant] So you felt accepted and involved in a family?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So, and I was, you know, I made a mark. I don't know what the mark is today, but I certainly, I certainly made a mark on the Dagat family. I hear from his daughter in Houston now that there is, there are legends about me amongst his family, the Dagat family, everybody. And I said, I don't remember any of this. But she said, oh, but there are stories. And it's nice. It's, it's, it's, yeah. You know, I think, I think some of the things that that happened. Being sick. The doctor, the doctor's wife lost a child that was born and died two, three, two or three days later. Going through a lot of that stuff with them, you know, that makes you family. That makes you real family.

[Assistant] So you felt accepted and involved in a family?

[User] Oh, yeah. Especially since it was, you know, I was raised as an only child with parents who kind of rejected their families and went off, left rural Missouri to go live in big Houston, Texas. And so I really had, I really had as an only child, I had no brothers and sisters. I only have three cousins, you know, and they were a way off, never saw them. So I didn't have that, that sense of family. It was always just my mother and.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Well, it was just the doctor and his wife. But ultimately, I met his brothers and I met their wives and their kids and that sort of thing. And they were all scattered in Bombay and New Delhi and what have you, but I met them on and off.

[Assistant] But you felt a part of their family.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah. Especially since it was, you know, I was raised as an only child with parents who kind of rejected their families and went off, left rural Missouri to go live in big Houston, Texas. And so I really had, I really had as an only child, I had no brothers and sisters. I only have three cousins, you know, and they were a way off, never saw them. So I didn't have that, that sense of family. It was always just my mother and.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Well, it was just the doctor and his wife. But ultimately, I met his brothers and I met their wives and their kids and that sort of thing. And they were all scattered in Bombay and New Delhi and what have you, but I met them on and off.

[Assistant] But you felt a part of their family.

[User] Yes, very much so.

[Assistant] So by the end.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it was just the doctor and his wife. But ultimately, I met his brothers and I met their wives and their kids and that sort of thing. And they were all scattered in Bombay and New Delhi and what have you, but I met them on and off.

[Assistant] But you felt a part of their family.

[User] Yes, very much so.

[Assistant] So by the end.

[User] In fact, when I, when I left India, I was medically evacuated from India.

[Assistant] Oh, what was that like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, very much so.

[Assistant] So by the end.

[User] In fact, when I, when I left India, I was medically evacuated from India.

[Assistant] Oh, what was that like?

[User] Oh, it was still, still amoebas and that sort of thing. And, uh.

[Assistant] Did you not finish the whole two years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In fact, when I, when I left India, I was medically evacuated from India.

[Assistant] Oh, what was that like?

[User] Oh, it was still, still amoebas and that sort of thing. And, uh.

[Assistant] Did you not finish the whole two years?

[User]
Oh, well, uh, no, I went to end of service conference, the one that's three months before or. [tape break] So end. I went to the end of the service conference. They said, well, you're not going to go back to your village for a month before you come to, before you know. I've forgotten what they call the close of service or what it was. The one where you went in and then you didn't go back to your village. I mean, you packed up and left your village. There was a little conference at the very end, too, at that time. That's the one that I missed. But when I left, uh. There was somebody from the, uh, Jabalpur that was coming in to pick me up and my trunk.

And so I came, they came out to pick me up. And the doctor and his wife and the health staff had served me a big meal and all this little honored thing. And they were kind of ticked because they'd wanted to buy me a gold chain or something like that, but they didn't have time to have the goldsmith make it because I was leaving early. And so we went out to the. I'm going to get upset talking about this. But we went out to the jeep and then the doctor said, Sudha, his wife, who had not come to the Jeep. He said, Sudha has something for you. Go back. And so I went back and it was just her and me. And she did this beautiful Hindu blessing and marked my forehead. You know, here I am, you know, 35 years later. It was really, you know, and I left doing what I'm doing now. So it was deep, deep stuff with the family.

[Assistant] And you had no idea when he said that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, it was still, still amoebas and that sort of thing. And, uh.

[Assistant] Did you not finish the whole two years?

[User]
Oh, well, uh, no, I went to end of service conference, the one that's three months before or. [tape break] So end. I went to the end of the service conference. They said, well, you're not going to go back to your village for a month before you come to, before you know. I've forgotten what they call the close of service or what it was. The one where you went in and then you didn't go back to your village. I mean, you packed up and left your village. There was a little conference at the very end, too, at that time. That's the one that I missed. But when I left, uh. There was somebody from the, uh, Jabalpur that was coming in to pick me up and my trunk.

And so I came, they came out to pick me up. And the doctor and his wife and the health staff had served me a big meal and all this little honored thing. And they were kind of ticked because they'd wanted to buy me a gold chain or something like that, but they didn't have time to have the goldsmith make it because I was leaving early. And so we went out to the. I'm going to get upset talking about this. But we went out to the jeep and then the doctor said, Sudha, his wife, who had not come to the Jeep. He said, Sudha has something for you. Go back. And so I went back and it was just her and me. And she did this beautiful Hindu blessing and marked my forehead. You know, here I am, you know, 35 years later. It was really, you know, and I left doing what I'm doing now. So it was deep, deep stuff with the family.

[Assistant] And you had no idea when he said that.

[User] And I had no idea that. And it was this, this bhabhi-devar thing.

[Assistant] You thought she was going to tease you and say goodbye.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I had no idea that. And it was this, this bhabhi-devar thing.

[Assistant] You thought she was going to tease you and say goodbye.

[User] Or she was just going to say goodbye or whatever. And here was this ceremony with burning camphor and prayers and holy water and rice thrown on my head and the mark, a tika, put on my, on my forehead.

[Assistant] That meant you had total acceptance into the family?

[User] And I mean, it was, it was, you know, I didn't. I was kind of befuddled but really moved and.

[Assistant] Have you told this story before?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Or she was just going to say goodbye or whatever. And here was this ceremony with burning camphor and prayers and holy water and rice thrown on my head and the mark, a tika, put on my, on my forehead.

[Assistant] That meant you had total acceptance into the family?

[User] And I mean, it was, it was, you know, I didn't. I was kind of befuddled but really moved and.

[Assistant] Have you told this story before?

[User] Sure. Yeah.

[Assistant] So when you tell this story.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure. Yeah.

[Assistant] So when you tell this story.

[User] It always, it always, tears always come. And when I saw them two years ago in Houston, it was a real emotional thing for all of us. And is, is, uh, it was really funny because he was laughing. I had sent some pictures back that I'd taken in India and his grown son now. And most of his kids were born after I left. In fact, all of them were. The daughter that is kind of considered my goddaughter. And she believes that I named her. That's part of the lore.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yeah. And all of the kids, he moved on from that place and became a cardiac surgeon.

[Assistant] In another village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It always, it always, tears always come. And when I saw them two years ago in Houston, it was a real emotional thing for all of us. And is, is, uh, it was really funny because he was laughing. I had sent some pictures back that I'd taken in India and his grown son now. And most of his kids were born after I left. In fact, all of them were. The daughter that is kind of considered my goddaughter. And she believes that I named her. That's part of the lore.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yeah. And all of the kids, he moved on from that place and became a cardiac surgeon.

[Assistant] In another village?

[User] No. In the big regional center. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean a real cardiac thoracic surgeon. And of course, they're well off now. And this, he was just starting his career. He was, he's only five years older than me. Just, he was fresh out of med school when I, uh.

[Assistant] When you went to the village.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. In the big regional center. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean a real cardiac thoracic surgeon. And of course, they're well off now. And this, he was just starting his career. He was, he's only five years older than me. Just, he was fresh out of med school when I, uh.

[Assistant] When you went to the village.

[User] When he went to the village. Yeah. And his kids said, I can't believe that you lived in a place like that. So in many respects, his kids view that experience of him and his wife there in that village very much like me being in the Peace Corps. They can't believe that he lived out in that because they were not raised that way. They were raised fairly well off in a large city and went to school and went to graduate school and, you know.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yeah, so. You know, we were both young and we went through all of this together.

[Assistant] So leaving then, when you came out of that blessing and you had to come back and leave, that was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When he went to the village. Yeah. And his kids said, I can't believe that you lived in a place like that. So in many respects, his kids view that experience of him and his wife there in that village very much like me being in the Peace Corps. They can't believe that he lived out in that because they were not raised that way. They were raised fairly well off in a large city and went to school and went to graduate school and, you know.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yeah, so. You know, we were both young and we went through all of this together.

[Assistant] So leaving then, when you came out of that blessing and you had to come back and leave, that was?

[User] Very emotional, needless to say.

[Assistant] Was it the whole village or just the family.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Very emotional, needless to say.

[Assistant] Was it the whole village or just the family.

[User] For the blessing?

[Assistant] Well.

[User] No, for the blessing, it was just her.

[Assistant] But I mean, was there emotion around leaving the village and the work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] For the blessing?

[Assistant] Well.

[User] No, for the blessing, it was just her.

[Assistant] But I mean, was there emotion around leaving the village and the work?

[User]
Oh, you know, by that time, it was, it was like, I don't want to go home, but God I'm glad to get out of here. It was, it was really, really mixed. I had considered continuing on for a year, and my roommate had already left early. He left three months early. He finally said, I'm, I'm going to get married and I'm a teacher and I got to go find a job. So he actually left early, left the Peace Corps early, and did not attend any of the, any of the end of service or anything. And so I was there for about three or four months, three months by myself.

And, uh. I hope to go back and visit them again. I went back and visited them in 1969 because I trained Peace Corps volunteers and trained them both in the United States and in India. And so I got to visit them in 1969. And their eldest daughter Radha had been born by that time, and I took her a doll. She told me later, as an adult with her kids sitting around her, that that doll was the only doll that she ever had.

[Assistant] Is there a reason for that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, for the blessing, it was just her.

[Assistant] But I mean, was there emotion around leaving the village and the work?

[User]
Oh, you know, by that time, it was, it was like, I don't want to go home, but God I'm glad to get out of here. It was, it was really, really mixed. I had considered continuing on for a year, and my roommate had already left early. He left three months early. He finally said, I'm, I'm going to get married and I'm a teacher and I got to go find a job. So he actually left early, left the Peace Corps early, and did not attend any of the, any of the end of service or anything. And so I was there for about three or four months, three months by myself.

And, uh. I hope to go back and visit them again. I went back and visited them in 1969 because I trained Peace Corps volunteers and trained them both in the United States and in India. And so I got to visit them in 1969. And their eldest daughter Radha had been born by that time, and I took her a doll. She told me later, as an adult with her kids sitting around her, that that doll was the only doll that she ever had.

[Assistant] Is there a reason for that?

[User] I don't know. I don't know.

[Assistant] Is there a cultural thing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't, I have no idea. But it was a doll, a talking doll, and you pulled a string on its back and it would say things. And the first time we did that, she screamed bloody murder and threw the doll across the floor. But she, she's very, to this day, she's very attached to that doll. She still has it. And she says it's the only doll she ever had. So. Um. And, oh, and when I visited them in Houston, which was my hometown, what I got to do was to take them around Houston and see and show them where I lived, all the places that I lived, the places that I went to school, showed them.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yeah. And of course, they learned a lot about me. And we went and visited my mother's grave together. So, again, real family stuff.

[Assistant] Real connection.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Certainly an achievement of that whole experience.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And of course, they learned a lot about me. And we went and visited my mother's grave together. So, again, real family stuff.

[Assistant] Real connection.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Certainly an achievement of that whole experience.

[User] And they've got one daughter living in Houston. She's married to, guess what, an Indian software engineer in Houston. They have another daughter who's studying microbiology at the University of Michigan. And their son, who is in business, lives in Bombay. And I forget what kind of business he is, I think it's something to do with textiles. But he's been accepted at Harvard and Wharton business schools. So he's no, he's not a dumb guy either. And but he's refused to go until he gets a full scholarship. And his father says knowing him, he may wait a couple of years, but he'll end up getting the full scholarship and coming.

[Assistant] So they're mostly [inaudible].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Certainly an achievement of that whole experience.

[User] And they've got one daughter living in Houston. She's married to, guess what, an Indian software engineer in Houston. They have another daughter who's studying microbiology at the University of Michigan. And their son, who is in business, lives in Bombay. And I forget what kind of business he is, I think it's something to do with textiles. But he's been accepted at Harvard and Wharton business schools. So he's no, he's not a dumb guy either. And but he's refused to go until he gets a full scholarship. And his father says knowing him, he may wait a couple of years, but he'll end up getting the full scholarship and coming.

[Assistant] So they're mostly [inaudible].

[User] So they're all, two of their three kids are living in the States and the other one is coming to go to school. But they'll go back to India ultimately, I think. I think, who knows, who knows. And uh, just trying to think of other, other things about.

[Assistant] At the end of the tour, did you, you must have felt a great sense of achievement of just having done so much.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Well, it was sort of yes and no. There was so much to do. And I'd wanted to do so much more, but couldn't because things just take time. And I remember every once in a while being just incredibly frustrated and saying, what the hell am I doing here? I'm going to go home, and things are not happening. And then I'd go into this big city and there was a, there was actually a missionary there. Uh, Miss Campbell. I don't even remember her first name. And she always had tea and cookies at 4:00 every day. And I knew that you could combine. You could have a really good tea. She made really good tea. And two cookies, very abstemious. It was very proper. She was born and raised in India, though she was American. The only time she lived in the United States was when she went to college.

And I remember saying to her, Miss Campbell, nothing's happening. And she'd go, well, what have you done? And I would say, well, we did this and this and this. And there was one time when she, I said, you know, I really got one of the farmers to use a steel plow. Steel plow rather than a, than a wooden plow. And she said, Reid, you know that that's about 5,000 years of development. So don't put down what you're doing. And she would always kind of set me straight about time, really, and change in India. Like, slow down. Keep the pressure up. But don't be so impatient. You're laying some foundations. And that was, that was a good thing for her to be there. She, I mean, she was a real character.

[Assistant] It was a good thing for you to hear that.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] That reframe of what you were doing.

[User] Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Assistant] And so when you came home, you felt, you felt that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Assistant] And so when you came home, you felt, you felt that.

[User] I felt, you know, it was like I could have done more. I mean, that's always the case in my life. I always feel like I could have done more. But, you know, and my experience in India got me into really good graduate schools. I ended up getting a National Defense Education Act fellowship to study Hindi to put me through graduate school. I ended up using it, of course, to help train Peace Corps volunteers and going back to India. I also went back to India in 1975 when Mrs. Gandhi was having her emergency, and I thought that they were going to close the country down and I'd never get to see my friends again. And I went back to visit then. That was, that was nice. Then I've not been back since 1975.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] My Peace Corps service, I got one of my jobs with the Legal Services Corporation because I speak Hindi. Not that I would never, ever use it in that job, but the guy who hired me said he was down between you and two other people. And we started talking about your Peace Corps and your ability to read and write and speak Hindi. And when you wrote my name out in, in, in Devanagari script and I thought this guy's got some ability to think. And of course lawyers like thinkers. And he told me later on, two years later, he says, you got the job because you speak Hindi. Not that it has anything to do with your job because I'd already was up in the finalists anyway. So he used that to make the distinction.

[Assistant] Can you think of other things like that that have influenced your life since Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My Peace Corps service, I got one of my jobs with the Legal Services Corporation because I speak Hindi. Not that I would never, ever use it in that job, but the guy who hired me said he was down between you and two other people. And we started talking about your Peace Corps and your ability to read and write and speak Hindi. And when you wrote my name out in, in, in Devanagari script and I thought this guy's got some ability to think. And of course lawyers like thinkers. And he told me later on, two years later, he says, you got the job because you speak Hindi. Not that it has anything to do with your job because I'd already was up in the finalists anyway. So he used that to make the distinction.

[Assistant] Can you think of other things like that that have influenced your life since Peace Corps?

[User] Well, I, you know, obviously, I did a lot of work in international, a lot of international work later, and went off to Sudan and worked there with the, with the Geologic Survey and the International Monetary Fund. And I did, I did a lot of work in Pakistan and ended up. Toward my, the end of my tour, I'd go to go back to Pakistan about two months out of every year for about four or five years, two one month trips. And during that time I would do teambuilding courses for Pakistani program leaders and rural development boards of directors and that sort of thing.

[Assistant] Did you call from your hands on experience?

[User] Oh, sure. Sure. And I went back and I.

[Assistant] And you knew how to do it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, sure. Sure. And I went back and I.

[Assistant] And you knew how to do it.

[User] Yeah. And kind of scared the whole time in Pakistan because things were getting rough. Even I had to have a bodyguard every once in a while the last couple of trips in Pakistan. And I went to, I spent most of my time in Quetta, in Peshawar, which are places where Americans are not too welcome today. And, uh, my Urdu, which is the same as Hindi except written differently and pronounced a little bit differently, got good enough for me to begin to really think in or do while I was doing the training. And one time when I stopped, I realized that I was thinking in Urdu and translating into English to Urdu speakers. And I froze and I and I said, I got to tell you what happened. And they laughed and they said, well, just speak Urdu. And I said, it's terrible Urdu. And they said, that's all right, we speak terrible Urdu too. And so I just began, when I thought it in Urdu, I would say it in Urdu along with my English. And so I was known for doing the trainings in Urdu. Well.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] It wasn't really, wasn't really in Urdu, it was like 10 percent, 20 percent Urdu. But it was, but it did an awful lot for their acceptance of me and their receptivity to what I had to say. And that was, that was a lot of fun. Other times I use my language is with taxi drivers in New York City because so many of them are Hindus or Sikhs.

[Assistant] A lot of connection, that word keeps coming to my mind as I listen to you. Connection with the language, with the people, with this particular family.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] How much is? You know, all that kind of, that kind of stuff is what I was teaching them. I mean, they, and they were they were really good at picking up the language. So it was just, just so that they could understand a few words in, not just read the Arabic subtitles, but actually understand the Hindi words. So that was fun.

[Assistant] It kind of pulls together everything that, your entire experience with international languages.

[User] I'd love to do some more of it. Yeah, I'd love to do some more of it somehow or another. I've thought about going back in the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] As a volunteer?

[User] As a volunteer. Years, you know, when I quote retire.

[Assistant] Would you go back to India?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'd love to do some more of it. Yeah, I'd love to do some more of it somehow or another. I've thought about going back in the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] As a volunteer?

[User] As a volunteer. Years, you know, when I quote retire.

[Assistant] Would you go back to India?

[User]
Oh, in a minute. In a minute. I'm trying to think of some way to get back there now in a, in a way that is not just tourist. I mean, it would be great to go back as a tourist and to visit the Dagats. But I would like to go back there with some, some real purpose to, to make the connection again with a group of people, to do some work together. I tried several times earlier in my career to do it. I was, I was actually accepted by the Ford Foundation to do an internship with the Ford Foundation in the Calcutta Metropolitan Planning Office. Because my graduate degree's in city planning. This was right after I was graduating from graduate school and was pretty much ready to go. And the, uh, there were all kinds of riots and Naxalite. Naxalite is a kind of terrorist group that was operating in Bengal at the time.

And the head of the foundation operation there was murdered. And so they ended their operations there. And needless to say, I did not go. And about five years later than that, after that, I was going to go to work for CARE in Bengal. And it turns out at that time I was getting ready, really getting ready to go. And my mother was diagnosed with cancer and my father lost his job. And it was the only time that they ever asked me, please don't go so far away. And I ended up making a decision not to go because my parents needed me, basically. And so I stayed. But both of those that were purposeful visits and I'd like to find some other kind of personal. Personal and purposeful visit.

[Assistant] Ways to visit.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] As a volunteer. Years, you know, when I quote retire.

[Assistant] Would you go back to India?

[User]
Oh, in a minute. In a minute. I'm trying to think of some way to get back there now in a, in a way that is not just tourist. I mean, it would be great to go back as a tourist and to visit the Dagats. But I would like to go back there with some, some real purpose to, to make the connection again with a group of people, to do some work together. I tried several times earlier in my career to do it. I was, I was actually accepted by the Ford Foundation to do an internship with the Ford Foundation in the Calcutta Metropolitan Planning Office. Because my graduate degree's in city planning. This was right after I was graduating from graduate school and was pretty much ready to go. And the, uh, there were all kinds of riots and Naxalite. Naxalite is a kind of terrorist group that was operating in Bengal at the time.

And the head of the foundation operation there was murdered. And so they ended their operations there. And needless to say, I did not go. And about five years later than that, after that, I was going to go to work for CARE in Bengal. And it turns out at that time I was getting ready, really getting ready to go. And my mother was diagnosed with cancer and my father lost his job. And it was the only time that they ever asked me, please don't go so far away. And I ended up making a decision not to go because my parents needed me, basically. And so I stayed. But both of those that were purposeful visits and I'd like to find some other kind of personal. Personal and purposeful visit.

[Assistant] Ways to visit.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] For an amount of time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Oh, in a minute. In a minute. I'm trying to think of some way to get back there now in a, in a way that is not just tourist. I mean, it would be great to go back as a tourist and to visit the Dagats. But I would like to go back there with some, some real purpose to, to make the connection again with a group of people, to do some work together. I tried several times earlier in my career to do it. I was, I was actually accepted by the Ford Foundation to do an internship with the Ford Foundation in the Calcutta Metropolitan Planning Office. Because my graduate degree's in city planning. This was right after I was graduating from graduate school and was pretty much ready to go. And the, uh, there were all kinds of riots and Naxalite. Naxalite is a kind of terrorist group that was operating in Bengal at the time.

And the head of the foundation operation there was murdered. And so they ended their operations there. And needless to say, I did not go. And about five years later than that, after that, I was going to go to work for CARE in Bengal. And it turns out at that time I was getting ready, really getting ready to go. And my mother was diagnosed with cancer and my father lost his job. And it was the only time that they ever asked me, please don't go so far away. And I ended up making a decision not to go because my parents needed me, basically. And so I stayed. But both of those that were purposeful visits and I'd like to find some other kind of personal. Personal and purposeful visit.

[Assistant] Ways to visit.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] For an amount of time?

[User] It would be nice. It would be nice. I mean, given the way we live now and what we have here, it would be difficult to do that unless we just uprooted ourselves and moved off. So.

[Assistant] Wow, this has been very interesting and heartfelt.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] For an amount of time?

[User] It would be nice. It would be nice. I mean, given the way we live now and what we have here, it would be difficult to do that unless we just uprooted ourselves and moved off. So.

[Assistant] Wow, this has been very interesting and heartfelt.

[User] Thank you.

[Assistant] And a very unique experience. Very unique experience.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It would be nice. It would be nice. I mean, given the way we live now and what we have here, it would be difficult to do that unless we just uprooted ourselves and moved off. So.

[Assistant] Wow, this has been very interesting and heartfelt.

[User] Thank you.

[Assistant] And a very unique experience. Very unique experience.

[User] Thank you.

[Assistant] And I think you've said it all.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, I think, I mean, I think in the early sixties, people knew about the Peace Corps because it was brand new and it was celebrated when, um, in the president's inauguration speech. Ask not what you, what your country can do for you, what you can do for your country, and then followed up by Sargent Shriver and the organization of the Peace Corps. Um, I, there was probably somebody coming to campus about it, but I don't remember that particularly, like being recruited. And so I don't, nobody tapped me on the shoulder and said, why don't you do this?

[Assistant] Yeah. What was your reaction when you were accepted?

[User] Oh, I was ready to go. I think it was, it was July in the District. It was hot. It smelled. There used to be a glue factory down on the Potomac. And with the 98 percent humidity, that smell would just encapsulate everything. And there was very little air conditioning in the sixties.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And you know, July was the lunar landing. Woodstock was coming up. So it was a good time to take off.

[Assistant] What did your friends and family think of your decision?