[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah. I are one. Yes, it’s never believe the first story. I have bunch of those little aphorisms I’ve come up with over the years. Somebody’s had your problem before, you just have to find them. I found that out in the nature of car repair, working on your car. You’ve got a problem with your car, come in to work and talk about it with a bunch of guys that work on cars. Somebody will have had your problem. You just need to find him. I think the same things holds true.\n\n I don’t think there are any new problems; they just look different. All problems look different when they’re coming at you. When they pass you by and you can look at the back of them like the Wizard of Oz, you can see the guy back there pulling the bells and whistles and all that. There are, I think, only a very few number of real different problems—they look different—because you’re dealing with laws of physics and people. So you’re dealing a limited set to start with.\n\n Now, there’s a lot of variations on those things, but basic problems are the same, they just look a lot different, and again, if you recognize the pattern.\n\n Works in personal life too, limited number of things there, too. People don’t like to have you, your spouses or SOs [significant others], they don’t like to have you necessarily use work techniques of analysis on domestic problems and all that, especially with kids or whatever. They don’t sit too well for that. It’s much more fun to get all emotional, whereas at work that usually doesn’t work. But some of those same techniques can work at home. It’s harder to use them, though. You have to be clever.

[Assistant] Yes, probably a little more indirect.

[User] Especially with kids, yes.

[Assistant] Have you told your kids that’s what you were doing then?

[User] No. No, and I won’t even now. My kids, the youngest is twenty-seven.

[Assistant] So they’re not quite old enough to know the truth there, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I’ve got a bunch of them written down. It’s funny, you’ve heard of Lewis and Clark?

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] The satellites?

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] Well, was it Lewis or Clark? One of them got launched, got up in orbit, lasted a little while, and augured in. They did a big study of what happened to it, and it was a real comedy of errors. So I looked over that, and I made a few comments on their program, I mean, after they’d figured out what happened to it. You could see the seeds of doom being sown in that program real early. They changed it around. They changed launch vehicles. They moved it from one group to another. They separated people that should have been working together, just a whole bunch things, took people off of monitoring it during its phases to save money and then when things started happening, the guy wasn’t there. I mean, just amazing the number of things.\n\n So I made a few comments to that, and it turned into kind of lessons learned, overall lessons. So I kind of used that as a trigger and then launched into everything I’ve learned about hardware and people and all that. So I got to put some stuff together. If you’re aware of what’s going on around you at all, pretty soon you can’t help but develop some of these things. So I have a little pitch that I have put together.

[Assistant] Well, that’s about all the questions I had had for this time, but I did want to see if Carol and Sandra had any, if you don’t mind.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The satellites?

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] Well, was it Lewis or Clark? One of them got launched, got up in orbit, lasted a little while, and augured in. They did a big study of what happened to it, and it was a real comedy of errors. So I looked over that, and I made a few comments on their program, I mean, after they’d figured out what happened to it. You could see the seeds of doom being sown in that program real early. They changed it around. They changed launch vehicles. They moved it from one group to another. They separated people that should have been working together, just a whole bunch things, took people off of monitoring it during its phases to save money and then when things started happening, the guy wasn’t there. I mean, just amazing the number of things.\n\n So I made a few comments to that, and it turned into kind of lessons learned, overall lessons. So I kind of used that as a trigger and then launched into everything I’ve learned about hardware and people and all that. So I got to put some stuff together. If you’re aware of what’s going on around you at all, pretty soon you can’t help but develop some of these things. So I have a little pitch that I have put together.

[Assistant] Well, that’s about all the questions I had had for this time, but I did want to see if Carol and Sandra had any, if you don’t mind.

[User] Sure.

[Assistant] No? Sandra?\n\n Okay. Well, it looks like we’re all about out of them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, was it Lewis or Clark? One of them got launched, got up in orbit, lasted a little while, and augured in. They did a big study of what happened to it, and it was a real comedy of errors. So I looked over that, and I made a few comments on their program, I mean, after they’d figured out what happened to it. You could see the seeds of doom being sown in that program real early. They changed it around. They changed launch vehicles. They moved it from one group to another. They separated people that should have been working together, just a whole bunch things, took people off of monitoring it during its phases to save money and then when things started happening, the guy wasn’t there. I mean, just amazing the number of things.\n\n So I made a few comments to that, and it turned into kind of lessons learned, overall lessons. So I kind of used that as a trigger and then launched into everything I’ve learned about hardware and people and all that. So I got to put some stuff together. If you’re aware of what’s going on around you at all, pretty soon you can’t help but develop some of these things. So I have a little pitch that I have put together.

[Assistant] Well, that’s about all the questions I had had for this time, but I did want to see if Carol and Sandra had any, if you don’t mind.

[User] Sure.

[Assistant] No? Sandra?\n\n Okay. Well, it looks like we’re all about out of them.

[User] Okay. Well, I enjoyed it.

[Assistant] Good. Were there any other comments you wanted to make before we called it quits?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Actually, that just reminded me, speaking of Gemini, that reminded me of one question I had had from last time which was involving Gemini X and the environmental control system where the guys complained of their eyes burning, but they couldn’t really figure out what the problem was.

[User] I don’t remember ever knowing what that was. I tell you, have you have had Larry [E.] Bell?

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] He would have been the one to know, if anybody knew.

[Assistant] Well, his thought was that John Young had used his suit hose as a vacuum cleaner to suck up some Tang he had spilled.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t remember ever knowing what that was. I tell you, have you have had Larry [E.] Bell?

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] He would have been the one to know, if anybody knew.

[Assistant] Well, his thought was that John Young had used his suit hose as a vacuum cleaner to suck up some Tang he had spilled.

[User] I wondered about the Tang. I was going to mention that, but I didn’t know whether they’d ever proved that or not.

[Assistant] Yes, I don’t know if they did. I think John Young would deny that story.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He would have been the one to know, if anybody knew.

[Assistant] Well, his thought was that John Young had used his suit hose as a vacuum cleaner to suck up some Tang he had spilled.

[User] I wondered about the Tang. I was going to mention that, but I didn’t know whether they’d ever proved that or not.

[Assistant] Yes, I don’t know if they did. I think John Young would deny that story.

[User] Have you had him yet?

[Assistant] No, we haven’t, but we sure try.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I wondered about the Tang. I was going to mention that, but I didn’t know whether they’d ever proved that or not.

[Assistant] Yes, I don’t know if they did. I think John Young would deny that story.

[User] Have you had him yet?

[Assistant] No, we haven’t, but we sure try.

[User] Oh, yes. I’d get him. Yes. Yes. It’s been a great ride, I’ll tell you.

[Assistant] Yes, it certainly seems like your ride was a lot of fun.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Have you had him yet?

[Assistant] No, we haven’t, but we sure try.

[User] Oh, yes. I’d get him. Yes. Yes. It’s been a great ride, I’ll tell you.

[Assistant] Yes, it certainly seems like your ride was a lot of fun.

[User] Oh, yeah. I guess you tend to remember those things, and you remember the characters. The characters. I guess maybe there are characters like them now, but I don’t see them. I don’t see the characters like we had in the early days.

[Assistant] The wild men.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. I’d get him. Yes. Yes. It’s been a great ride, I’ll tell you.

[Assistant] Yes, it certainly seems like your ride was a lot of fun.

[User] Oh, yeah. I guess you tend to remember those things, and you remember the characters. The characters. I guess maybe there are characters like them now, but I don’t see them. I don’t see the characters like we had in the early days.

[Assistant] The wild men.

[User] The wild men, yes. No more wild men. Okay.

[Assistant] All right. Well, thanks.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] After three years of being in the country, I actually did, in that last year, I happened to be able to go. And I went with the youth volunteer for my original training group before she closed out her service. We went to Argentina, Chile, a little piece of Brazil and Bolivia. So it took about three weeks and got to see some of South America, experience some of South America.

[Assistant] And how long? So for three weeks, you did a little vacation in Brazil you're saying?

[User] Brazil, Argentina, Chile and Bolivia. And then we also, a bunch of us also went. I had some friends come in from the States. We went out to the Galapagos, the archipelago that is off the coast of Ecuador.

[Assistant] Now, since you stayed there longer than your two-year assignment, I'm assuming you did feel a sense of achievement.

[User] Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. I think when you physically have a structure that you're building from the ground up and you're part of that, that is a huge sense of achievement to see the walls and the moms and their kids come in and use it as a functioning center. And that opened probably, I probably stayed only eight months after. I mean, it was like fully established and really comfortable in their new space and hiring new people and being a part of that. So yeah, I absolutely felt that contributions were made on my part. But I mean, as Peace Corps you learn so much from the people there too. But I had something to offer and I was able to do that. And I know, you know, leaving that behind also helped a lot of kids thrive and grow and not die, because we did have some kids who just didn't make it.

[Assistant] You've only told us about some of the pluses and minuses and the problems you had in Ecuador and the wonderful things you were able to do in Ecuador. What was it really like to work with the people and do you have any regrets?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I served in the Republic of Moldova in a city named Balti. I started my service in June 2014 and ended my service July 2016.

[Assistant] Ok, so I just wanted to ask you sort of in a chronological order about your service and we'll just start way before you started serving. Was there anything growing up that made you want to join the Peace Corps?

[User] I didn't know about the organization until 2010, 2011, right before I graduated, thinking about what to do with as a career and as like things to branch off of before I started my career and I majored in economics and minored in international relations. So Peace Corps, the Foreign Service, government work or something I was really interested in at the time. And it all made sense to look into these like international organizations.

[Assistant] Yeah. How did you find out about it?

[User] Found out about it through, I think someone in the university or just Googling for like international volunteer service, Peace Corps, the British Volunteering Service, the European Volunteer Service, all came up and I obviously qualified for the Peace Corps after I gained my citizenship. So I wanted to call.

[Assistant] So what was the application process like when you applied?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn't know about the organization until 2010, 2011, right before I graduated, thinking about what to do with as a career and as like things to branch off of before I started my career and I majored in economics and minored in international relations. So Peace Corps, the Foreign Service, government work or something I was really interested in at the time. And it all made sense to look into these like international organizations.

[Assistant] Yeah. How did you find out about it?

[User] Found out about it through, I think someone in the university or just Googling for like international volunteer service, Peace Corps, the British Volunteering Service, the European Volunteer Service, all came up and I obviously qualified for the Peace Corps after I gained my citizenship. So I wanted to call.

[Assistant] So what was the application process like when you applied?

[User] It was pretty long. Lots of, I guess, waiting, applying and waiting, it took me probably three days to apply and then a couple of days to wait. Got the interview fairly quick and then nominated the next day, but then another year and a half to two years of waiting.

[Assistant] Two years of waiting. Was that when you had to mail in and everything and wait for them to mail back?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Found out about it through, I think someone in the university or just Googling for like international volunteer service, Peace Corps, the British Volunteering Service, the European Volunteer Service, all came up and I obviously qualified for the Peace Corps after I gained my citizenship. So I wanted to call.

[Assistant] So what was the application process like when you applied?

[User] It was pretty long. Lots of, I guess, waiting, applying and waiting, it took me probably three days to apply and then a couple of days to wait. Got the interview fairly quick and then nominated the next day, but then another year and a half to two years of waiting.

[Assistant] Two years of waiting. Was that when you had to mail in and everything and wait for them to mail back?

[User] It was at the time, it was electronic. I mailed in only like certain health records.

[Assistant] Ok, great. So did you get to choose what part of the world you wanted to go to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was pretty long. Lots of, I guess, waiting, applying and waiting, it took me probably three days to apply and then a couple of days to wait. Got the interview fairly quick and then nominated the next day, but then another year and a half to two years of waiting.

[Assistant] Two years of waiting. Was that when you had to mail in and everything and wait for them to mail back?

[User] It was at the time, it was electronic. I mailed in only like certain health records.

[Assistant] Ok, great. So did you get to choose what part of the world you wanted to go to?

[User] I had the ability to choose regions and I specified Africa or Eastern Europe, because I didn't, I knew I didn't qualify for South America and I didn't feel like going into Asia.

[Assistant] OK, and what sector did you serve in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was at the time, it was electronic. I mailed in only like certain health records.

[Assistant] Ok, great. So did you get to choose what part of the world you wanted to go to?

[User] I had the ability to choose regions and I specified Africa or Eastern Europe, because I didn't, I knew I didn't qualify for South America and I didn't feel like going into Asia.

[Assistant] OK, and what sector did you serve in?

[User] And I did small enterprise development.

[Assistant] Great, tell me about your assignment.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had the ability to choose regions and I specified Africa or Eastern Europe, because I didn't, I knew I didn't qualify for South America and I didn't feel like going into Asia.

[Assistant] OK, and what sector did you serve in?

[User] And I did small enterprise development.

[Assistant] Great, tell me about your assignment.

[User] It was with at first with the regional development of the Northern Regional Development Agency of Moldova, and they were a quasi- government agency that did developmental work in terms of waste management, aqueducts, water purification, building roads, mainly with US aid and European agencies. They were the one who were distributing the funds and then deciding on what type of criteria it meets their standards.

[Assistant] Ok, and what was your specific position like that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I did small enterprise development.

[Assistant] Great, tell me about your assignment.

[User] It was with at first with the regional development of the Northern Regional Development Agency of Moldova, and they were a quasi- government agency that did developmental work in terms of waste management, aqueducts, water purification, building roads, mainly with US aid and European agencies. They were the one who were distributing the funds and then deciding on what type of criteria it meets their standards.

[Assistant] Ok, and what was your specific position like that?

[User] Um, I sort of started out just helping them think about the projects, planning things out and working with them in terms of more planning and organizational efficiency in the office. But it didn't work out and unfortunately, there were really busy and really stressed. The organizational structure is more of a top down where the head director had to say in most things. And when he's not there, usually people didn't do much or seriously trying to finish the things he told them to do.

[Assistant] So it didn't work out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was with at first with the regional development of the Northern Regional Development Agency of Moldova, and they were a quasi- government agency that did developmental work in terms of waste management, aqueducts, water purification, building roads, mainly with US aid and European agencies. They were the one who were distributing the funds and then deciding on what type of criteria it meets their standards.

[Assistant] Ok, and what was your specific position like that?

[User] Um, I sort of started out just helping them think about the projects, planning things out and working with them in terms of more planning and organizational efficiency in the office. But it didn't work out and unfortunately, there were really busy and really stressed. The organizational structure is more of a top down where the head director had to say in most things. And when he's not there, usually people didn't do much or seriously trying to finish the things he told them to do.

[Assistant] So it didn't work out?

[User] No, it didn't work out. I stayed there for until February of, no February, April of 2015. And then when I got moved to another agency that dealt with women business development and also just small business development. They had grants that came in from U.S. aid and then they interviewed and researched the applicants that had business ideas, were already developed businesses to contribute more money to or help them better organize and develop their business. They range from like, hair salons to farms to beekeepers to designers, architects. Any regional northern region small time businesses qualified, and they mainly focused on women who started a business or had partners.

[Assistant] And what did you do specifically with that organization?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, I sort of started out just helping them think about the projects, planning things out and working with them in terms of more planning and organizational efficiency in the office. But it didn't work out and unfortunately, there were really busy and really stressed. The organizational structure is more of a top down where the head director had to say in most things. And when he's not there, usually people didn't do much or seriously trying to finish the things he told them to do.

[Assistant] So it didn't work out?

[User] No, it didn't work out. I stayed there for until February of, no February, April of 2015. And then when I got moved to another agency that dealt with women business development and also just small business development. They had grants that came in from U.S. aid and then they interviewed and researched the applicants that had business ideas, were already developed businesses to contribute more money to or help them better organize and develop their business. They range from like, hair salons to farms to beekeepers to designers, architects. Any regional northern region small time businesses qualified, and they mainly focused on women who started a business or had partners.

[Assistant] And what did you do specifically with that organization?

[User] Very similar to the first organization where I helped them with organizational stuff, technology issues, and just really helped them develop and critique businesses on the businesses ability to perform. And the budget and funding was right for this specific business, or is it too much of a risk? Things like that.

[Assistant] Ok, I want to go back in time a little back to your pre service training. Can you tell me about that? Was it in a different part of the country than you ended up?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it didn't work out. I stayed there for until February of, no February, April of 2015. And then when I got moved to another agency that dealt with women business development and also just small business development. They had grants that came in from U.S. aid and then they interviewed and researched the applicants that had business ideas, were already developed businesses to contribute more money to or help them better organize and develop their business. They range from like, hair salons to farms to beekeepers to designers, architects. Any regional northern region small time businesses qualified, and they mainly focused on women who started a business or had partners.

[Assistant] And what did you do specifically with that organization?

[User] Very similar to the first organization where I helped them with organizational stuff, technology issues, and just really helped them develop and critique businesses on the businesses ability to perform. And the budget and funding was right for this specific business, or is it too much of a risk? Things like that.

[Assistant] Ok, I want to go back in time a little back to your pre service training. Can you tell me about that? Was it in a different part of the country than you ended up?

[User] Yeah, pre service. We stayed in a little village called Truescu. It was about 20, 30 minutes from the capital. And we did our language training, their cultural training there, and did a small project there in terms of. Seeing what the organization are, seeing, what the community needed, like research permit and our admin training and medical training was in the capital.

[Assistant] Ok, what? How long was that, too?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Very similar to the first organization where I helped them with organizational stuff, technology issues, and just really helped them develop and critique businesses on the businesses ability to perform. And the budget and funding was right for this specific business, or is it too much of a risk? Things like that.

[Assistant] Ok, I want to go back in time a little back to your pre service training. Can you tell me about that? Was it in a different part of the country than you ended up?

[User] Yeah, pre service. We stayed in a little village called Truescu. It was about 20, 30 minutes from the capital. And we did our language training, their cultural training there, and did a small project there in terms of. Seeing what the organization are, seeing, what the community needed, like research permit and our admin training and medical training was in the capital.

[Assistant] Ok, what? How long was that, too?

[User] So from June, June 5th, June six to August, early August.

[Assistant] Ok, and the training in the capital, was that just a couple of days or did you commute meet back and forth.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, pre service. We stayed in a little village called Truescu. It was about 20, 30 minutes from the capital. And we did our language training, their cultural training there, and did a small project there in terms of. Seeing what the organization are, seeing, what the community needed, like research permit and our admin training and medical training was in the capital.

[Assistant] Ok, what? How long was that, too?

[User] So from June, June 5th, June six to August, early August.

[Assistant] Ok, and the training in the capital, was that just a couple of days or did you commute meet back and forth.

[User] We commuted back and forth.

[Assistant] Ok, what did you what did your days look like in pre-service training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So from June, June 5th, June six to August, early August.

[Assistant] Ok, and the training in the capital, was that just a couple of days or did you commute meet back and forth.

[User] We commuted back and forth.

[Assistant] Ok, what did you what did your days look like in pre-service training?

[User] About four hours of language in the morning and then another three to four in the afternoon. And then every few days we got afternoon off a little bit early because we did cultural training and what the culture was about, things to do, things not to do. And it was Monday through Saturday and Saturday. We have the afternoon off.

[Assistant] Ok, so in the morning, you did language, in the afternoon you did job training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We commuted back and forth.

[Assistant] Ok, what did you what did your days look like in pre-service training?

[User] About four hours of language in the morning and then another three to four in the afternoon. And then every few days we got afternoon off a little bit early because we did cultural training and what the culture was about, things to do, things not to do. And it was Monday through Saturday and Saturday. We have the afternoon off.

[Assistant] Ok, so in the morning, you did language, in the afternoon you did job training?

[User] Um, job training was once a week. And it was only in the afternoon. It was predominantly language training.

[Assistant] What language did you learn?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] About four hours of language in the morning and then another three to four in the afternoon. And then every few days we got afternoon off a little bit early because we did cultural training and what the culture was about, things to do, things not to do. And it was Monday through Saturday and Saturday. We have the afternoon off.

[Assistant] Ok, so in the morning, you did language, in the afternoon you did job training?

[User] Um, job training was once a week. And it was only in the afternoon. It was predominantly language training.

[Assistant] What language did you learn?

[User] I learned Romanian.

[Assistant] Ok, was that easy to learn?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, job training was once a week. And it was only in the afternoon. It was predominantly language training.

[Assistant] What language did you learn?

[User] I learned Romanian.

[Assistant] Ok, was that easy to learn?

[User] First maybe month, month and a half. It was a lot of language wasn't super difficult. It was romance based, kind of like Spanish. The I still don't know, date is very well, but I the I guess word conjugations wasn't too bad. And future tense, past tense was easier as long as you got your basic word verb conjugations correct.

[Assistant] Did you have any expert had you ever heard Romanian before you started learning it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I learned Romanian.

[Assistant] Ok, was that easy to learn?

[User] First maybe month, month and a half. It was a lot of language wasn't super difficult. It was romance based, kind of like Spanish. The I still don't know, date is very well, but I the I guess word conjugations wasn't too bad. And future tense, past tense was easier as long as you got your basic word verb conjugations correct.

[Assistant] Did you have any expert had you ever heard Romanian before you started learning it?

[User] No. And then I had some conversations with Peace Corps volunteers are currently out in Moldova, and they told me not to study the language. I'll just get it, you know, get on arrival. I'm like, all right, good. And yeah, that was what I did.

[Assistant] Did you speak Romanian all the time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] At site?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] During pre-service, not so much. We tried. I had a friend, Andrew, he’s a PCV, he changed his name to Andre when he was there full time. We had conversations in Romania maybe an hour, a day outside of class, just trying to understand each other. We sounded so dumb, but we understood each other and that was OK.

[Assistant] That's something.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And then once you got to say you speaking Romanian, what time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] During pre-service, not so much. We tried. I had a friend, Andrew, he’s a PCV, he changed his name to Andre when he was there full time. We had conversations in Romania maybe an hour, a day outside of class, just trying to understand each other. We sounded so dumb, but we understood each other and that was OK.

[Assistant] That's something.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And then once you got to say you speaking Romanian, what time?

[User] I got to say I was speaking Romanian. Sometimes the host family wanted me to teach their kids English. So I spoke English more with them, the kids and then Romanian with their parents. With foreign languages, I don't, I'm fairly reserved and I don't talk much somewhat introverted and need my time to recharge. But overall, the office I spoke a lot of English too. The only time I spoke Romanian was on my secondary projects with students and youths.

[Assistant] OK. So when you got to site your first couple of months there, what was that like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And then once you got to say you speaking Romanian, what time?

[User] I got to say I was speaking Romanian. Sometimes the host family wanted me to teach their kids English. So I spoke English more with them, the kids and then Romanian with their parents. With foreign languages, I don't, I'm fairly reserved and I don't talk much somewhat introverted and need my time to recharge. But overall, the office I spoke a lot of English too. The only time I spoke Romanian was on my secondary projects with students and youths.

[Assistant] OK. So when you got to site your first couple of months there, what was that like?

[User] Um, it was OK. I had site mates. Four site mates, actually five, before September and then four site mates throughout until the first group left, but we interacted with each other fairly regularly, had projects working with each other. First couple of months with the host family was OK. My language eventually developed where I had no problems understanding them, although my host dad translated my Romanian to other people. It's like I said the same thing. He just said it another way.

[Assistant] From Romanian to Romanian.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I got to say I was speaking Romanian. Sometimes the host family wanted me to teach their kids English. So I spoke English more with them, the kids and then Romanian with their parents. With foreign languages, I don't, I'm fairly reserved and I don't talk much somewhat introverted and need my time to recharge. But overall, the office I spoke a lot of English too. The only time I spoke Romanian was on my secondary projects with students and youths.

[Assistant] OK. So when you got to site your first couple of months there, what was that like?

[User] Um, it was OK. I had site mates. Four site mates, actually five, before September and then four site mates throughout until the first group left, but we interacted with each other fairly regularly, had projects working with each other. First couple of months with the host family was OK. My language eventually developed where I had no problems understanding them, although my host dad translated my Romanian to other people. It's like I said the same thing. He just said it another way.

[Assistant] From Romanian to Romanian.

[User] Yeah, it was fairly good. Summer was ending, winter was coming. And I just got to know people and explore different projects and ideas in the area.

[Assistant] Did you, was it a hard adjustment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, it was OK. I had site mates. Four site mates, actually five, before September and then four site mates throughout until the first group left, but we interacted with each other fairly regularly, had projects working with each other. First couple of months with the host family was OK. My language eventually developed where I had no problems understanding them, although my host dad translated my Romanian to other people. It's like I said the same thing. He just said it another way.

[Assistant] From Romanian to Romanian.

[User] Yeah, it was fairly good. Summer was ending, winter was coming. And I just got to know people and explore different projects and ideas in the area.

[Assistant] Did you, was it a hard adjustment?

[User] It wasn't a hard adjustment, culturally. I felt like Moldova post Soviet bloc was very similar to China during the 1990s. And I grew up in China. I was born there. And the buildings all look very similar to people culturally or different. But like workwise, I like the mentality of communism was fairly similar. So it wasn't too bad.

[Assistant] Um, you mentioned living with the host family, did you live with the host family the full two years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it was fairly good. Summer was ending, winter was coming. And I just got to know people and explore different projects and ideas in the area.

[Assistant] Did you, was it a hard adjustment?

[User] It wasn't a hard adjustment, culturally. I felt like Moldova post Soviet bloc was very similar to China during the 1990s. And I grew up in China. I was born there. And the buildings all look very similar to people culturally or different. But like workwise, I like the mentality of communism was fairly similar. So it wasn't too bad.

[Assistant] Um, you mentioned living with the host family, did you live with the host family the full two years?

[User] I did not. So I stayed with them from August, the second host family at the actual site from August to January. At about October or November, they started hinting that I should move out because they had another baby coming and that was the fourth kid. So there were like, you should just move to our apartment. I didn't want to do that because I didn't know what winter was like buying food. And all that was just strange to me at the time. So I eventually moved out in January to the new to the apartment, because the room that I was staying in, the gas wasn't very strong and it wasn't very warm. So they were like, the apartment’s really warm. And I'm like, alright I’ll just move there.

[Assistant] Was it your family's apartment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It wasn't a hard adjustment, culturally. I felt like Moldova post Soviet bloc was very similar to China during the 1990s. And I grew up in China. I was born there. And the buildings all look very similar to people culturally or different. But like workwise, I like the mentality of communism was fairly similar. So it wasn't too bad.

[Assistant] Um, you mentioned living with the host family, did you live with the host family the full two years?

[User] I did not. So I stayed with them from August, the second host family at the actual site from August to January. At about October or November, they started hinting that I should move out because they had another baby coming and that was the fourth kid. So there were like, you should just move to our apartment. I didn't want to do that because I didn't know what winter was like buying food. And all that was just strange to me at the time. So I eventually moved out in January to the new to the apartment, because the room that I was staying in, the gas wasn't very strong and it wasn't very warm. So they were like, the apartment’s really warm. And I'm like, alright I’ll just move there.

[Assistant] Was it your family's apartment?

[User] Yes, my host family's apartment. Not connected, a whole different block on the other side of town.

[Assistant] They were just like, get out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did not. So I stayed with them from August, the second host family at the actual site from August to January. At about October or November, they started hinting that I should move out because they had another baby coming and that was the fourth kid. So there were like, you should just move to our apartment. I didn't want to do that because I didn't know what winter was like buying food. And all that was just strange to me at the time. So I eventually moved out in January to the new to the apartment, because the room that I was staying in, the gas wasn't very strong and it wasn't very warm. So they were like, the apartment’s really warm. And I'm like, alright I’ll just move there.

[Assistant] Was it your family's apartment?

[User] Yes, my host family's apartment. Not connected, a whole different block on the other side of town.

[Assistant] They were just like, get out?

[User] Yeah. They, like, just live there. Well, it's the same rent. I get this place by yourself and I'm like, sounds great.

[Assistant] Cool. And then did you live with a different host family during your pre-service training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, my host family's apartment. Not connected, a whole different block on the other side of town.

[Assistant] They were just like, get out?

[User] Yeah. They, like, just live there. Well, it's the same rent. I get this place by yourself and I'm like, sounds great.

[Assistant] Cool. And then did you live with a different host family during your pre-service training?

[User] Yes, it was a different host family during pre-service. They were in the village and fairly well-off host family just like the one in Balti, you know, very family of lawyers in Balti and, in training site Truescu, and then in Balti it was a family of furniture merchants.

[Assistant] I want to hear about your secondary projects now.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. They, like, just live there. Well, it's the same rent. I get this place by yourself and I'm like, sounds great.

[Assistant] Cool. And then did you live with a different host family during your pre-service training?

[User] Yes, it was a different host family during pre-service. They were in the village and fairly well-off host family just like the one in Balti, you know, very family of lawyers in Balti and, in training site Truescu, and then in Balti it was a family of furniture merchants.

[Assistant] I want to hear about your secondary projects now.

[User] I had a lot of secondary projects that I mainly worked with another volunteer for recycling during near the end of my service. We did a recycling program coming out of the schools, had a recycling center off of far side of town that got sold recyclables to Romania. He was able to pick up each local school. We had about eight school sites that did plastics and paper recycling knows one of my bigger projects. Also some of the other ones, I did a volunteering training program with another volunteer out of the the city hall. And it was fairly big, already developed by previous volunteer, had about 40 or 50 students trained every semester. And we trained as students on how to why it's important to volunteer, what is volunteering, how to develop their projects, and then giving them a small amount of money or teaching them how to raise the money to complete a project. Some of them were volunteering at the orphanage, painting, repainting for playgrounds. Some other ones were like sustainability, how to how to keep building sustainable and things like that. I also taught English once a week at the school at a local high school with 12 and 11 former high school students and taught Chinese once a week out of local Chinese school that I randomly found to high school middle school students, mainly conversational, some reading and writing. And I think those were all those secondary problems.

[Assistant] Well, it sounds like you kept really busy.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was a different host family during pre-service. They were in the village and fairly well-off host family just like the one in Balti, you know, very family of lawyers in Balti and, in training site Truescu, and then in Balti it was a family of furniture merchants.

[Assistant] I want to hear about your secondary projects now.

[User] I had a lot of secondary projects that I mainly worked with another volunteer for recycling during near the end of my service. We did a recycling program coming out of the schools, had a recycling center off of far side of town that got sold recyclables to Romania. He was able to pick up each local school. We had about eight school sites that did plastics and paper recycling knows one of my bigger projects. Also some of the other ones, I did a volunteering training program with another volunteer out of the the city hall. And it was fairly big, already developed by previous volunteer, had about 40 or 50 students trained every semester. And we trained as students on how to why it's important to volunteer, what is volunteering, how to develop their projects, and then giving them a small amount of money or teaching them how to raise the money to complete a project. Some of them were volunteering at the orphanage, painting, repainting for playgrounds. Some other ones were like sustainability, how to how to keep building sustainable and things like that. I also taught English once a week at the school at a local high school with 12 and 11 former high school students and taught Chinese once a week out of local Chinese school that I randomly found to high school middle school students, mainly conversational, some reading and writing. And I think those were all those secondary problems.

[Assistant] Well, it sounds like you kept really busy.

[User] Yeah, it was. It was ups and downs sometimes during for like six weeks at a time, Sunday to Sunday, like literally eight to 12 hour days doing the volunteering project and sometimes two to three weeks without much because it was summer and no one was there.

[Assistant] Yeah, that sounds right. What did a regular week look like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It had a reported population of one hundred and twenty thousand, but realistically probably seventy thousand. Okay. From center of town you can walk to the village, the farmlands within fifteen minutes and if you walked north, maybe it'll take you 30, 40 minutes to get to a village or like just the farm outside of the city and not very big. No. You sort of either knew everybody or like second or third degree knew other people.

[Assistant] Tell me about tell me about your host family's house and then tell me about the apartment that you moved into.

[User] So my host family's house is very central, literally downtown. It was an office style house where it was two stories. First story had some storage stuff. Second story was their house, house, apartment. Inside the first door was their their house. It was very well furnished, one to two bedrooms with a big kitchen and living room together and a loft in one of the other bedrooms. OK, fairly big. And my room was the third door, which is just an office that they repurposed to, um, to a living quarters. Everyone except mom and dad slept on couch beds, which is like Soviet style couch was more comfortable than your American futons and stuff like that. I'm fairly, fairly firm, very durable. And it was very comfortable, had a bookshelf, a desk, a chair and the futon with like a closet in my area. The bathroom was right next to outside, but right next to my room.

[Assistant] Nice, and you said something about the gas and the heating.

[User] Yeah, so the gas was turned on whenever the temperature reaches a certain threshold and the government's like, we need to turn on gas hostname. I found out this later. The host family had the on switch and then my room had an on off switch, but my own switch was in turn on and when it was turned on, the host family got the first round of gas and then whatever filtered down to me I had wasn't too bad. Very variable. But you have to wear like multiple layers during winter if you want to stay in that room.

[Assistant] What was the winter like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, so the gas was turned on whenever the temperature reaches a certain threshold and the government's like, we need to turn on gas hostname. I found out this later. The host family had the on switch and then my room had an on off switch, but my own switch was in turn on and when it was turned on, the host family got the first round of gas and then whatever filtered down to me I had wasn't too bad. Very variable. But you have to wear like multiple layers during winter if you want to stay in that room.

[Assistant] What was the winter like?

[User] Winter, winter would probably be like New York or Maryland. OK, it was sort of, I guess inside your bones kind of chill as long as you root, you know, you layered up, it's totally fine. What worried me about winter was the ice. The roads weren't very clear. Like luckily the roads, there are a lot of potholes. So you step into them, there's some sort of traction for the ice, but you really can't see some of the black ice and they don't really clear the ice during winter. And me being really tall, I fell all the time. Oh, even with the trucks on which I like the way springs. So yak tracks, you put them over your shoes and have like spring coils along the bottom, that helps traction a little bit. But I stopped wearing them because mine was like bright orange and only the foreigners wore them. So it's like I'll just be very careful. My friend told me to just waddle like a penguin and it did work.

[Assistant] That made you stand out less.

[User] Yeah, a lot less than the orange yak tracks.

[Assistant] Um, hey so I wonder what was packing like if you had to pack all those winter clothes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Winter, winter would probably be like New York or Maryland. OK, it was sort of, I guess inside your bones kind of chill as long as you root, you know, you layered up, it's totally fine. What worried me about winter was the ice. The roads weren't very clear. Like luckily the roads, there are a lot of potholes. So you step into them, there's some sort of traction for the ice, but you really can't see some of the black ice and they don't really clear the ice during winter. And me being really tall, I fell all the time. Oh, even with the trucks on which I like the way springs. So yak tracks, you put them over your shoes and have like spring coils along the bottom, that helps traction a little bit. But I stopped wearing them because mine was like bright orange and only the foreigners wore them. So it's like I'll just be very careful. My friend told me to just waddle like a penguin and it did work.

[Assistant] That made you stand out less.

[User] Yeah, a lot less than the orange yak tracks.

[Assistant] Um, hey so I wonder what was packing like if you had to pack all those winter clothes.

[User] Um, winter clothes. I brought one coats, one coat. I found another coat at Peace Corps, when people leave, they just leave a bunch of stuff, so another coat there. I had thermals prepacked during summer and it wasn't, it wasn't too bad as long as you knew how to layer it was totally fine.

[Assistant] Did you get, I just know that there's like a weight limit for your bags when you travel. And I feel like having to pack a bunch of coats would make it trickier.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, winter clothes. I brought one coats, one coat. I found another coat at Peace Corps, when people leave, they just leave a bunch of stuff, so another coat there. I had thermals prepacked during summer and it wasn't, it wasn't too bad as long as you knew how to layer it was totally fine.

[Assistant] Did you get, I just know that there's like a weight limit for your bags when you travel. And I feel like having to pack a bunch of coats would make it trickier.

[User] My weight limit was right on seventy five.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah. So it wasn't too bad. I had one big luggage actually one big one big luggage, a big backpack and a smaller luggage that I packed. I crammed the small luggage so much ended up weighing like thirty five pounds for like a carry-on luggage. Yeah it's quite a lot.

[Assistant] Yeah. But they don't weigh your carry-ons.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My weight limit was right on seventy five.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah. So it wasn't too bad. I had one big luggage actually one big one big luggage, a big backpack and a smaller luggage that I packed. I crammed the small luggage so much ended up weighing like thirty five pounds for like a carry-on luggage. Yeah it's quite a lot.

[Assistant] Yeah. But they don't weigh your carry-ons.

[User] Yeah. They don't weigh carry-ons. So if that was good I think my backpack was about twenty five pounds so I'm all over one hundred pounds of materials.

[Assistant] Wow. Ok, so what were your, what was your favorite project that you did? You told us about them, but you didn't tell us that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. So it wasn't too bad. I had one big luggage actually one big one big luggage, a big backpack and a smaller luggage that I packed. I crammed the small luggage so much ended up weighing like thirty five pounds for like a carry-on luggage. Yeah it's quite a lot.

[Assistant] Yeah. But they don't weigh your carry-ons.

[User] Yeah. They don't weigh carry-ons. So if that was good I think my backpack was about twenty five pounds so I'm all over one hundred pounds of materials.

[Assistant] Wow. Ok, so what were your, what was your favorite project that you did? You told us about them, but you didn't tell us that.

[User] My favorite project would have to be overall teaching students, working with students either in English, Chinese or volunteering. That was fairly hands on. You get to see how the students develop and grow, really understand different topics and their strange and foreign to them, something that their schools or parents wouldn't be able to explain for volunteering. So the Soviet type volunteering before sort of mandatory and they had volunteering days where you go plant trees or clean your community or, you know, help beautify the surrounding environment. I was once, once a year, maybe twice a year, and the school's other students were kind of forced to clean their classroom and all that stuff. So building the mentality of volunteering is good for your community was difficult at first. But when you see them understand and get the topics, it's really, I guess, rewarding and nice to see.

[Assistant] Yeah. Did you have anybody you were close with in your community?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. They don't weigh carry-ons. So if that was good I think my backpack was about twenty five pounds so I'm all over one hundred pounds of materials.

[Assistant] Wow. Ok, so what were your, what was your favorite project that you did? You told us about them, but you didn't tell us that.

[User] My favorite project would have to be overall teaching students, working with students either in English, Chinese or volunteering. That was fairly hands on. You get to see how the students develop and grow, really understand different topics and their strange and foreign to them, something that their schools or parents wouldn't be able to explain for volunteering. So the Soviet type volunteering before sort of mandatory and they had volunteering days where you go plant trees or clean your community or, you know, help beautify the surrounding environment. I was once, once a year, maybe twice a year, and the school's other students were kind of forced to clean their classroom and all that stuff. So building the mentality of volunteering is good for your community was difficult at first. But when you see them understand and get the topics, it's really, I guess, rewarding and nice to see.

[Assistant] Yeah. Did you have anybody you were close with in your community?

[User] Um, mainly the high school students in terms of local local people, high school students, hang out with them once in a while, either go running or, you know, walk around the neighborhood. And then I was fairly close to Peace Corps volunteers because we did all of the projects together. And I think without the Peace Corps volunteers, I would have been more sheltered and need more time to recharge. But having them as an outlet because they know they understand how I feel, they're more familiar with things, was something very important to have. Um, it was a good balance between local and Peace Corps volunteers.

[Assistant] Did you ever get to see the Peace Corps volunteers who worked at your site?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. The country that I stayed I volunteered in didn't have a rule on internal travel. With some countries you have to take vacation or PTO to internally travel. Ours did not, until I think possibly the end of my service, but that's another story. So I always found other volunteers that needed help with projects or just wanted to. I guess I just wanted to see a different part of the country. I know I pretty much travel throughout the country except the very far north. I don't think I made it all the way to Edinet, but overall I did a lot of traveling throughout the country and because I was the capital, a lot of volunteers came into my site because they needed to get away from the host family or just needed like a place to take a break and cool down. My apartment was fairly big enough to host a lot of people.

[Assistant] Great. You mentioned traveling, did you go on any vacations nearby countries while you're there?

[User] I went on quite a bit of vacations, but I don't think I've finished all of my vacation days. My furthest vacation would have to be China. I went for Chinese New Year's for seven or nine days. And that was fairly good. But surrounding region in Europe, I did Germany, Hungary, Romania, Austria and Slovenia or Slovakia, which ever, one of the two countries that inland next to Austria. Went to Israel, that was very fun. And I think that’s it. Never got to go to Ukraine because the site kind of closed and we weren't allowed to go until the end of service. And by that time, I didn't want to travel.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. That sounds like a lot of places to go without finishing vacation days.

[User] Oh, also Czech Republic. Czech Republic is really fun. Oh, and Italy. Italy was good.

[Assistant] Wow! You did a good job seeing the continent.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I went on quite a bit of vacations, but I don't think I've finished all of my vacation days. My furthest vacation would have to be China. I went for Chinese New Year's for seven or nine days. And that was fairly good. But surrounding region in Europe, I did Germany, Hungary, Romania, Austria and Slovenia or Slovakia, which ever, one of the two countries that inland next to Austria. Went to Israel, that was very fun. And I think that’s it. Never got to go to Ukraine because the site kind of closed and we weren't allowed to go until the end of service. And by that time, I didn't want to travel.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. That sounds like a lot of places to go without finishing vacation days.

[User] Oh, also Czech Republic. Czech Republic is really fun. Oh, and Italy. Italy was good.

[Assistant] Wow! You did a good job seeing the continent.

[User] Went out maybe a week at a time.

[Assistant] Awesome. Alright, so we talked about how it was coming in, like in your first year, at least, it is a pretty easy transition. What was your last year like, the end of your service like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, also Czech Republic. Czech Republic is really fun. Oh, and Italy. Italy was good.

[Assistant] Wow! You did a good job seeing the continent.

[User] Went out maybe a week at a time.

[Assistant] Awesome. Alright, so we talked about how it was coming in, like in your first year, at least, it is a pretty easy transition. What was your last year like, the end of your service like?

[User] Like the last year was busier than the first year because new volunteers came in to work with them and get them to understand the community after their transition for maybe a month or two. And one of my friends, his name is Bartosz. He's a Polish-American volunteer that had stronger language abilities than me. He knew Polish and Russian and studied Romanian. So he was a great use to go to the Russian speaking part of the city, which is pretty much everywhere, and get connections and work with people to develop projects. I used to either speak Romanian or get a student to translate, but having him around was very helpful and I don't think the recycling project would have started without having his help.

[Assistant] Oh, so what about the last, like three months of your service when you're closing down on your projects?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Went out maybe a week at a time.

[Assistant] Awesome. Alright, so we talked about how it was coming in, like in your first year, at least, it is a pretty easy transition. What was your last year like, the end of your service like?

[User] Like the last year was busier than the first year because new volunteers came in to work with them and get them to understand the community after their transition for maybe a month or two. And one of my friends, his name is Bartosz. He's a Polish-American volunteer that had stronger language abilities than me. He knew Polish and Russian and studied Romanian. So he was a great use to go to the Russian speaking part of the city, which is pretty much everywhere, and get connections and work with people to develop projects. I used to either speak Romanian or get a student to translate, but having him around was very helpful and I don't think the recycling project would have started without having his help.

[Assistant] Oh, so what about the last, like three months of your service when you're closing down on your projects?

[User] I didn't actually close down the last three months because our recycling project was, I guess, midway and ended in April. And then we had to do, I guess, summaries and reviews and see how we can sustain the project further into the future. And I still taught English, taught Chinese, and the volunteering project was also wrapping up, but not finalized. And then the main goal towards the last three months was to make sure that the volunteers who were staying there had the ability and the connections and the people and the know how to get what they needed. I'm just documenting these things, reminding them, you know, things to do and things not to do was, I guess, the main task.

[Assistant] Yeah. And then what was your transition back home like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We ended up doing just one leg. We were debating. We ended up making a decision in flight at a point to go ahead and continue based on our fuel burn. That was another reason for doing the test flight, was to look at our fuel burns on takeoff and at cruise to estimate what our fuel consumption was going to be for the duration. We ended up putting enough fuel in to get there. I think that particular day we had a wind issue, a crosswind component issue that sort of that worked itself out. We made an on-the-spot decision somewhere over, I think, Phoenix [Arizona] to press on, so we got the vehicle there the same flight, one flight.

[Assistant] Did you fly with your normal crew of two pilots and two flight engineers?

[User] I think we did. One of the pilots that I flew with, Triple [Jack A.] Nickel, is now retired, and I think it was Henry [T. Taylor] and [Gary W. Ash], on that flight with me, if I’m not mistaken.

[Assistant] Did you take any of the Boeing folks? I know when you take an orbiter that has hypergols on it, you can’t take anybody else. Did you take some Boeing people with you?

[User] No. You know, the Shuttle carrier is not a stock airplane, obviously, and so anytime we have a test article or a Shuttle, it’s considered an experimental aircraft, and so our rules at Johnson prevent us from taking anybody during a ferry, although we’re making one slight exception for this next leg. We’re doing a flyover. For [Space Shuttle] Discovery we’ve got one gentleman from the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration] that’s going to be riding with us. That’s sort of unprecedented, so it’s a different thing for us.

[Assistant] Did you have a Pathfinder involved in the Phantom Ray?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think we did. One of the pilots that I flew with, Triple [Jack A.] Nickel, is now retired, and I think it was Henry [T. Taylor] and [Gary W. Ash], on that flight with me, if I’m not mistaken.

[Assistant] Did you take any of the Boeing folks? I know when you take an orbiter that has hypergols on it, you can’t take anybody else. Did you take some Boeing people with you?

[User] No. You know, the Shuttle carrier is not a stock airplane, obviously, and so anytime we have a test article or a Shuttle, it’s considered an experimental aircraft, and so our rules at Johnson prevent us from taking anybody during a ferry, although we’re making one slight exception for this next leg. We’re doing a flyover. For [Space Shuttle] Discovery we’ve got one gentleman from the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration] that’s going to be riding with us. That’s sort of unprecedented, so it’s a different thing for us.

[Assistant] Did you have a Pathfinder involved in the Phantom Ray?

[User] Yes, we did. We had a Pathfinder C-9. It’s, in fact, the same Pathfinder we’re going to have on the [April] 17th, I think the same pilots. But we ended up having a chase ship, an F-18 chase ship that did all the filming of the Phantom Ray up to arrival into Edwards that I think he probably followed us for maybe 150 miles or something like that, the last 150 miles.

[Assistant] This summer there was another event involving the SCA that I thought was interesting, and that was the first time that you flew in formation with the SCAs. Would you talk about that decision to do that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Let’s see. I’m trying to think which direction we were. We were in the desert about 20 miles or so from Edwards, and we basically had the lead, in this case, was flown by Bill Brockett, and we had him and myself and Arthur [C.] Beall, “Ace” Beall. I don’t know if you know him. You probably talked to him.

[Assistant] We’re going to talk to him on Monday.

[User] He used to have my job, but now we’ve hired him back. Anyway, Ace and I were in the wing aircraft, so we traded off a little bit. I flew some of the formation, he did some of it, and we basically just had the lead aircraft orbit in a holding pattern at a constant altitude while we got some shots. So it was a unique thing.

[Assistant] Was it a challenge to fly in formation or to get those videos?

[User] I don’t know. For the video people, I don’t think they had too much problems. They’re professional guys at Dryden. They do this stuff all the time, this air-to-air stuff. But, yes, we took it easy. We had quite a bit of separation, wing-tip separation, in formation, but it wasn’t difficult, really.

[Assistant] You had mentioned in an email earlier that you had flown the 747 commercially for quite a few years.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He used to have my job, but now we’ve hired him back. Anyway, Ace and I were in the wing aircraft, so we traded off a little bit. I flew some of the formation, he did some of it, and we basically just had the lead aircraft orbit in a holding pattern at a constant altitude while we got some shots. So it was a unique thing.

[Assistant] Was it a challenge to fly in formation or to get those videos?

[User] I don’t know. For the video people, I don’t think they had too much problems. They’re professional guys at Dryden. They do this stuff all the time, this air-to-air stuff. But, yes, we took it easy. We had quite a bit of separation, wing-tip separation, in formation, but it wasn’t difficult, really.

[Assistant] You had mentioned in an email earlier that you had flown the 747 commercially for quite a few years.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] When you came onboard to fly the SCA, was it a major challenge or difference that you noticed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t know. For the video people, I don’t think they had too much problems. They’re professional guys at Dryden. They do this stuff all the time, this air-to-air stuff. But, yes, we took it easy. We had quite a bit of separation, wing-tip separation, in formation, but it wasn’t difficult, really.

[Assistant] You had mentioned in an email earlier that you had flown the 747 commercially for quite a few years.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] When you came onboard to fly the SCA, was it a major challenge or difference that you noticed?

[User] The SCA is not that difficult to fly, compared to the commercial counterpart. There’s some restrictions on the SCA that are not placed on the Boeing 747, so it’s learning the differences of the airplane. We fly the airplane at 250 knots indicated airspeed, which is way slower than you’d fly a Boeing 747, and that’s because the vehicle configuration and the tip fins that we have that have a speed restriction. The airplane’s flown at 250 knots, and we limit our bank with the orbiter to 20 degrees of bank. The airplane climbs extremely slow, so you have to really fly the airplane to a tighter specification than you would a Boeing 747 just to get the airplane to climb. You’re really very degraded in climb performance with an orbiter on top. You don’t have a lot of backup energy, so you have to use every bit of energy and fly the airplane to an exact speed to keep the airplane climbing.

[Assistant] We learned from Larry today that this is a 100 Series.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] When you came onboard to fly the SCA, was it a major challenge or difference that you noticed?

[User] The SCA is not that difficult to fly, compared to the commercial counterpart. There’s some restrictions on the SCA that are not placed on the Boeing 747, so it’s learning the differences of the airplane. We fly the airplane at 250 knots indicated airspeed, which is way slower than you’d fly a Boeing 747, and that’s because the vehicle configuration and the tip fins that we have that have a speed restriction. The airplane’s flown at 250 knots, and we limit our bank with the orbiter to 20 degrees of bank. The airplane climbs extremely slow, so you have to really fly the airplane to a tighter specification than you would a Boeing 747 just to get the airplane to climb. You’re really very degraded in climb performance with an orbiter on top. You don’t have a lot of backup energy, so you have to use every bit of energy and fly the airplane to an exact speed to keep the airplane climbing.

[Assistant] We learned from Larry today that this is a 100 Series.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Had you flown a 100 Series before you got here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The SCA is not that difficult to fly, compared to the commercial counterpart. There’s some restrictions on the SCA that are not placed on the Boeing 747, so it’s learning the differences of the airplane. We fly the airplane at 250 knots indicated airspeed, which is way slower than you’d fly a Boeing 747, and that’s because the vehicle configuration and the tip fins that we have that have a speed restriction. The airplane’s flown at 250 knots, and we limit our bank with the orbiter to 20 degrees of bank. The airplane climbs extremely slow, so you have to really fly the airplane to a tighter specification than you would a Boeing 747 just to get the airplane to climb. You’re really very degraded in climb performance with an orbiter on top. You don’t have a lot of backup energy, so you have to use every bit of energy and fly the airplane to an exact speed to keep the airplane climbing.

[Assistant] We learned from Larry today that this is a 100 Series.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Had you flown a 100 Series before you got here?

[User] Right. Yes, I’d flown 100s and 200s and 400s, so, yes. The 100s and 200s, from a pilot’s perspective and from a rating perspective are the same. On my license I have B-747, B-747, and that allows you to fly the 100s and 200s and actually the 300s. That’s another story. That’s a foreign airplane. Then the 400 is a completely different airplane. So there’s really, for the 747, there’s really like two licenses or ratings that you get, one of them to fly up through 100 through 300, and then a separate rating for the 400. So from the pilot’s perspective, there’s just not a lot of difference between what maybe would be a 100 and a 200. There’s some only minor differences.

[Assistant] I understand that that plane out there is a fly-by-cable plane. Can you tell us about that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Had you flown a 100 Series before you got here?

[User] Right. Yes, I’d flown 100s and 200s and 400s, so, yes. The 100s and 200s, from a pilot’s perspective and from a rating perspective are the same. On my license I have B-747, B-747, and that allows you to fly the 100s and 200s and actually the 300s. That’s another story. That’s a foreign airplane. Then the 400 is a completely different airplane. So there’s really, for the 747, there’s really like two licenses or ratings that you get, one of them to fly up through 100 through 300, and then a separate rating for the 400. So from the pilot’s perspective, there’s just not a lot of difference between what maybe would be a 100 and a 200. There’s some only minor differences.

[Assistant] I understand that that plane out there is a fly-by-cable plane. Can you tell us about that?

[User] I think that’s a misnomer a little bit, because there’s aircraft coming out now, for example, that have been out for a while, the Triple-7 [Boeing 777] and the Airbus 380, possibly some other airbus, I think the Airbus 319, and they’re, quote, “fly-by-wire.” NASA developed fly-by-wire many years ago at Dryden, but this airplane is really no different than a lot of the fleet out there. When you say fly by cable, all it means is from the control column you have a cable that runs to a hydraulic actuator and hydraulically moves the control surface. So we’re not anything in the Stone Ages here. It’s a normal configuration as far as hydraulics for many airplanes that you’ll fly on.

[Assistant] How is the flight crew for the SCA different from flying a commercial flight crew? For instance, there’s a pilot, a co-pilot, and two flight engineers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Yes, I’d flown 100s and 200s and 400s, so, yes. The 100s and 200s, from a pilot’s perspective and from a rating perspective are the same. On my license I have B-747, B-747, and that allows you to fly the 100s and 200s and actually the 300s. That’s another story. That’s a foreign airplane. Then the 400 is a completely different airplane. So there’s really, for the 747, there’s really like two licenses or ratings that you get, one of them to fly up through 100 through 300, and then a separate rating for the 400. So from the pilot’s perspective, there’s just not a lot of difference between what maybe would be a 100 and a 200. There’s some only minor differences.

[Assistant] I understand that that plane out there is a fly-by-cable plane. Can you tell us about that?

[User] I think that’s a misnomer a little bit, because there’s aircraft coming out now, for example, that have been out for a while, the Triple-7 [Boeing 777] and the Airbus 380, possibly some other airbus, I think the Airbus 319, and they’re, quote, “fly-by-wire.” NASA developed fly-by-wire many years ago at Dryden, but this airplane is really no different than a lot of the fleet out there. When you say fly by cable, all it means is from the control column you have a cable that runs to a hydraulic actuator and hydraulically moves the control surface. So we’re not anything in the Stone Ages here. It’s a normal configuration as far as hydraulics for many airplanes that you’ll fly on.

[Assistant] How is the flight crew for the SCA different from flying a commercial flight crew? For instance, there’s a pilot, a co-pilot, and two flight engineers.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] But there’s typically only one flight engineer on your 747.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I have some input to it. We generally try to be fair with everybody. We don’t try to have one guy hog the seat, so we generally rotate everybody on the ferries. We’re coming up on a situation now where we’re in a different environment because the Shuttle Program is over and we’re just delivering the vehicles. Because it’s a Johnson program, we’re doing the last flights. That’s just because it’s a Johnson program, nothing against our colleagues in Dryden. It’s like they fly SOFIA [Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared Astronomy], that’s their program, and they’ll take the last flights for SOFIA someday. It’s a little different than we normally operate, I would say, even though they are participating. Everybody’s participating in the ferry in one way or the other.

[Assistant] But they’re not going to fly the airplanes?

[User] They are, yes.

[Assistant] Oh, they are. Okay.

[User] Yes. We’ve got several legs coming up. We’ve got several legs where we’re going to move the vehicle back to Edwards. We’ve probably got—we don’t know how many legs coming up in September, at least three legs to get to California, and then we’re going to stage out of Edwards going to Los Angles [California]. So, yes, they’re participating in ferries.

[Assistant] Tell me, what are the tasks of a pilot before you get to do a ferry flight?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] 905 and 911?

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] Well, 911 has seen its last flight, and I flew the last flight over to Palmdale, and the airplane’s resting over there now. But, no, there’s very few differences. The basic airframe is a 747 Series airplane, where the 100s or 200s are very much similar. This airplane, its flight characteristics are almost identical to 911’s. It has a few cockpit differences and overhead panel differences, but other than that, you don’t see it.

[Assistant] So nothing when you’ve flown it, you’d say, “Oh, of course it’s 911”?

[User] Well, if you have a favorite, you might for some particular personal reason like one or the other, but you’re not going to see that big a difference in their flying characteristics.

[Assistant] How many ferry flights did you fly from Edwards to KSC?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, 911 has seen its last flight, and I flew the last flight over to Palmdale, and the airplane’s resting over there now. But, no, there’s very few differences. The basic airframe is a 747 Series airplane, where the 100s or 200s are very much similar. This airplane, its flight characteristics are almost identical to 911’s. It has a few cockpit differences and overhead panel differences, but other than that, you don’t see it.

[Assistant] So nothing when you’ve flown it, you’d say, “Oh, of course it’s 911”?

[User] Well, if you have a favorite, you might for some particular personal reason like one or the other, but you’re not going to see that big a difference in their flying characteristics.

[Assistant] How many ferry flights did you fly from Edwards to KSC?

[User] I’ve done, I think, four, and then Phantom Ray.

[Assistant] What was your first ferry?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, if you have a favorite, you might for some particular personal reason like one or the other, but you’re not going to see that big a difference in their flying characteristics.

[Assistant] How many ferry flights did you fly from Edwards to KSC?

[User] I’ve done, I think, four, and then Phantom Ray.

[Assistant] What was your first ferry?

[User] I was with Dave Finney, and he was my boss at the time. We had some weather on this particular ferry mission and we ended up that particular leg, my first leg, was out of Omaha, Nebraska. It was Omaha to Fort Campbell, Kentucky. So it was a unique experience for me. I remember that experience very well. One reason is Dave has passed away, and so I think of him when I think of that particular flight.\n\n But it was a unique experience that day. From a pilot’s perspective, coming from this airplane prior, the big difference, the big thing that shocks you, even though you’ve seen it in the simulator, is really the takeoff roll. You don’t really realize it takes a long time to get this airplane off the runway. You could almost think you can read one chapter of a book while you’re waiting on the airplane to accelerate. It’s a long time. It would be sort of unnerving, I think, to an airline pilot, even a 747 pilot, who jumped in this airplane and experienced this set of conditions, because the runway length is so long that you become a little bit unnerved about the distance remaining before you actually rotate the airplane. Even though you’ve seen it in the simulator, when you actually do it, you’re hoping your acceleration schedule is good. You’re hoping the airplane’s accelerating on schedule to meet the number of parameters that you’re shooting for. It’s a big mass to get stopped. If you were to have to stop this thing at the end and if everything’s not done right, you’re going to go off.

[Assistant] About how long does it take you to lift off the ground from that runway?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think we are doing a media flight, and I can’t remember—there’s Lori [B.] Garver [NASA Deputy Administrator]. There’s three or four people I think they want us to shake hands with. I don’t think they really have anything planned for the most part until the 19th. The 19th is when they do their show-and-tell of [Space Shuttle] Enterprise and Discovery, and they’re going to have USA guys tow them nose to nose, and then they’re going to have the senators or something there. I don’t know what they’re going to do. People that want a picture.

[Assistant] Typically when you would land for one leg of a Shuttle flight, did you have any responsibilities at the end of the day, or could you leave and then the aircraft crew—

[User] At an intermediate stop, do you mean?

[Assistant] At an intermediate stop or your final stop.

[User] Once we do the final delivery, once we get back here, it’s taken over by the maintenance folks and the USA folks, and now it’s theirs. They own it now. We’re done with it. We usually take the Pathfinder back to Houston within a couple of hours. But on intermediate stops we’re very aware of everything that’s going on. We could have maintenance issues on the airplane. We could have a brake problem. We could have something that needs to be changed, some part. We’re aware of that, and we have a briefing. Don McCormack usually has a pre-ferry daily briefing, and that includes the weather, the status of the vehicle, and a lot of other things. A lot of other people chime in based on runway availability and changes and things like that. So on an intermediate stop, we’re always thinking about it. We’re at the hotel, but we’re always planning for the next day based on what the weather’s doing. But, once we get the vehicle here, they own it. It’s USA’s baby.

[Assistant] Have there ever been any in-flight emergencies when you’re flying the SCA where something had to be fixed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] At an intermediate stop, do you mean?

[Assistant] At an intermediate stop or your final stop.

[User] Once we do the final delivery, once we get back here, it’s taken over by the maintenance folks and the USA folks, and now it’s theirs. They own it now. We’re done with it. We usually take the Pathfinder back to Houston within a couple of hours. But on intermediate stops we’re very aware of everything that’s going on. We could have maintenance issues on the airplane. We could have a brake problem. We could have something that needs to be changed, some part. We’re aware of that, and we have a briefing. Don McCormack usually has a pre-ferry daily briefing, and that includes the weather, the status of the vehicle, and a lot of other things. A lot of other people chime in based on runway availability and changes and things like that. So on an intermediate stop, we’re always thinking about it. We’re at the hotel, but we’re always planning for the next day based on what the weather’s doing. But, once we get the vehicle here, they own it. It’s USA’s baby.

[Assistant] Have there ever been any in-flight emergencies when you’re flying the SCA where something had to be fixed?

[User] I haven’t. In the past, they have. Henry’s probably told you stories. They’ve had a fire out of Edwards before. I can’t remember. Henry could tell you who was flying. I think maybe Gordo was flying the airplane. They ended up coming back around, shutting that motor down, and having no other problems. But it was a real fire. Sometimes you’ll get indications occasionally, but I think they ended up having a real fire.

[Assistant] Who handles the maintenance if you do have an issue, say you’ve landed and you need to replace a tire or something like that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Every airplane in existence has either a time restriction on the motors or some maintenance issues or some requirement for inspections. So we had that situation where we had two airplanes and we just had a lot more maintenance to do on 911, and it was not going to be productive cost-wise to keep that airplane flying, spend a lot of money, and then let 905 go. So it was a money thing. We looked at what inspections were required, what engine work was required, and we decided 911 was the one to go.

[Assistant] As Chief Pilot, did you ever get to decide which SCA was going to ferry?

[User] Well, for a long time 905 was dormant. In fact, it was, I think, on the order of almost two years. You have to talk to Henry. He’ll know the exact dates. But we were down for two years for engine issues, and we solely used 911. We had an engine up in Canada that we were waiting on. See, these are old motors. You have to remember, this is old stuff. These are old Pratt & Whitney motors. In the past we’ve had situations where an airplane may be down for an extended period of time, and so you had no choice as to what Shuttle carrier you used, but, no, I really didn’t have any input. In the old days, when this was a really moving program, they pretty much alternated the SCAs for the orbiters.

[Assistant] You mentioned that 905 was down for a while. Does that present a problem? There were fewer and fewer ferry flights as the program went along because there were more landings out here.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Was that a problem when you wanted to take one of these planes and do a ferry flight if it had been sitting for a while?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, for a long time 905 was dormant. In fact, it was, I think, on the order of almost two years. You have to talk to Henry. He’ll know the exact dates. But we were down for two years for engine issues, and we solely used 911. We had an engine up in Canada that we were waiting on. See, these are old motors. You have to remember, this is old stuff. These are old Pratt & Whitney motors. In the past we’ve had situations where an airplane may be down for an extended period of time, and so you had no choice as to what Shuttle carrier you used, but, no, I really didn’t have any input. In the old days, when this was a really moving program, they pretty much alternated the SCAs for the orbiters.

[Assistant] You mentioned that 905 was down for a while. Does that present a problem? There were fewer and fewer ferry flights as the program went along because there were more landings out here.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Was that a problem when you wanted to take one of these planes and do a ferry flight if it had been sitting for a while?

[User] Yes. Any mechanical device likes to be used, and the longer an airplane sits, the more problems you’re going to have with it. So there was a time period where we had to work some bugs out of 905 after sitting for a long time. That’s why we try to exercise these airplanes once every three weeks, to keep them moving and keep all the parts happy.

[Assistant] Do you have any funny stories you can share with us about any ferry flights, that you can put on tape?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Was that a problem when you wanted to take one of these planes and do a ferry flight if it had been sitting for a while?

[User] Yes. Any mechanical device likes to be used, and the longer an airplane sits, the more problems you’re going to have with it. So there was a time period where we had to work some bugs out of 905 after sitting for a long time. That’s why we try to exercise these airplanes once every three weeks, to keep them moving and keep all the parts happy.

[Assistant] Do you have any funny stories you can share with us about any ferry flights, that you can put on tape?

[User] I don’t know. Maybe I’ll have a good one after this one, I don’t know. Everything has pretty much been like clockwork. Don does a good job in his planning and stuff, and he does a good leadership role in the ferries. We have so many good inputs. We have really great weather people. We have a weather squadron that does all the launches, and Kathy [Katherine A.] Winters is our primary weather lady. She’s really topnotch. We’ve got really a lot of topnotch people that help us make decisions, and so it’s a lot easier than if we didn’t have these people. I haven’t had any real mechanical issues in flight, haven’t had maybe some of the stuff they’ve had in the past. In the last eight years, we haven’t had many surprises.\n\n I’m trying to think. We’ve done multiple flyovers here. That’s always a point of contention with NASA. Now we’re getting to an era where there’s a lot of, in the country, in everything, everybody looks at everything that you do. There’s becoming more and more of that, I think, at NASA, in general, and I think the decision process is more taken out of our hands and giving it to somebody else. But we’re at the end of the program anyway, so I think we’re going to finish up in a good form.

[Assistant] Are there any crew traditions before a ferry flight?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure. Good morning, Stephanie, and thank you. I was born in Ironton, Missouri, which is in southeast Missouri, but I grew up near Imperial, which is part of the metropolitan St. Louis area. I attended and graduated from Southeast Missouri State University. I have a bachelor of science degree in geography with an emphasis in history, as well as a minor in aerospace studies. I was commissioned in the Air Force through the ROTC [Reserve Officers’ Training Corps] program, served on active duty about eight years, and then from there went into various roles in the private sector before ending up at NARA in 2004. Along the way, I got my master's in public administration from the University of Oklahoma. “Boomer Sooner!” I always have to say that. That's just an OU thing. I have everything but my dissertation for my PhD in public policy from St. Louis University. I had a variety of things happen that are well beyond the scope of this interview that prevented me from finishing it, but I had everything else finished. I joined NARA in 2004. I was hired to do two basic things: to build the replacement facilities and get everybody and everything moved into those facilities, and then as well to stand up the then very small, fledgling Archival Program. We had 20,000 cubic feet of accessioned Official Military Personnel Files. Those were from Marine Corps and Navy personnel that served in the World War I period, roughly up through 1939. I accomplished both of those things. Before I knew it, it was time for me to retire.

[Assistant] Wow. That's a lot in a nutshell, right?

[User] Yes, that's it. Thanks for playing!

[Assistant] Well, I guess that's all today, so thank you! Wow! Well, you've got a lot of education under your belt. That's amazing. That's really impressive.

[User] Thank you.

[Assistant] You have a minor, you said, in history. Is that what kind of led you to the National Archives or what drew you to the National Archives?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, and I want to be clear, too. I had some great people working for me, because there were a lot of people tending the store as I was out doing different things with the moves or with the construction and that. They always had my back. And then I had theirs when it was needed. It was a lot. But that's one of the reasons why it was important for us to have the staff we needed so that we could continue to do the things. I relied heavily on Bill Seibert at the time as the Chief of Archival Ops to kind of keep the archival operation running as needed. When I needed to intervene or something, I was there. It was a team effort.

[Assistant] Okay. Having the right amount of staff with the right skills is extremely important—kind of lessons learned, in a way.

[User] Yes, definitely. Definitely. And thank goodness back in those days, the Human Resources Office was in the same building. They were based in St. Louis, and we could hire people very quickly, typically—nothing like what has been happening in the last 10 years or so. I'm not slamming NARA. That's kind of government wide. It's just an atrocious hiring process because you lose so many good people, potential candidates, because we can't get things done fast enough.

[Assistant] Right. Yeah. It's unfortunate how the government works.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] We're used to it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, definitely. Definitely. And thank goodness back in those days, the Human Resources Office was in the same building. They were based in St. Louis, and we could hire people very quickly, typically—nothing like what has been happening in the last 10 years or so. I'm not slamming NARA. That's kind of government wide. It's just an atrocious hiring process because you lose so many good people, potential candidates, because we can't get things done fast enough.

[Assistant] Right. Yeah. It's unfortunate how the government works.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] We're used to it.

[User] Definitely.

[Assistant] Can you talk a little bit about your position as the Access Coordinator for St. Louis and, I think, also a few other locations?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I guess in many ways they were very similar, because I was still part of the leadership team of Research Services. I guess in some ways it became more national in scope because we had more holdings that were personnel files, you know, personal data-related. I became more active in some of the policy aspects for NARA, dealing with those types of records. I was more active with folks from Records Management. When new record collections would come along, we would make sure, "Oh, is there a personnel—?" you know, because that's a different criteria under the FOIA exemptions, the [Exemption] (b)(6) for personal data. I worked quite a bit with general counsel, with the FOIA office, quite a bit on different matters of policy or issue and things like that.

[Assistant] Okay, so it sounds like you're working with a more diverse group of staff within NARA when you became the director of the Personnel Records Division.

[User] Yes. Yeah, I think that's an accurate conclusion to say.

[Assistant] Okay. Now, what do you think about the first reorganization when you became the access coordinator and then the reorganization again in 2020? Were there pros and cons to some of those actions? What did you think about those events?

[User] It was rather challenging. And I apologize, Stephanie, because I got a couple of notifications pop up and I didn't hear everything you asked me. Could you repeat that last part?

[Assistant] Oh, sure. I just was curious about what you thought of those reorganizations. The one when you became the access coordinator and then the second one in 2020. What were some of the pros and cons? Are there any lessons learned that you can give us?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, for Research Services. I mean, they still obviously don't have the outreach piece and that, and they've changed things and all that. But at the same time, it's something that we've learned to work with and to make do. And, Stephanie, I have another meeting at the top of the hour that I have to do.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] It popped up, and I apologize, it's having to do with the '73 fire. It was something that that was the only time.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] I'm open to continuing this if we need to in a separate conversation. I didn't want to cut you off or anything.

[Assistant] Sure, sure. Well, let me look to see from my notes what else I would like to cover and then I'll get back to you. How about that? And then if you want to set up another one, then we can.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It popped up, and I apologize, it's having to do with the '73 fire. It was something that that was the only time.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] I'm open to continuing this if we need to in a separate conversation. I didn't want to cut you off or anything.

[Assistant] Sure, sure. Well, let me look to see from my notes what else I would like to cover and then I'll get back to you. How about that? And then if you want to set up another one, then we can.

[User] Yeah, that'd be fine. I appreciate it and I apologize. You can blame Meg Philips. I'm kidding!

[Assistant] That's quite all right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm open to continuing this if we need to in a separate conversation. I didn't want to cut you off or anything.

[Assistant] Sure, sure. Well, let me look to see from my notes what else I would like to cover and then I'll get back to you. How about that? And then if you want to set up another one, then we can.

[User] Yeah, that'd be fine. I appreciate it and I apologize. You can blame Meg Philips. I'm kidding!

[Assistant] That's quite all right.

[User] I'd be happy with any other questions you have or anything. Just let me know. And Wednesdays work well in the mornings because I generally have some time.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay. All right. Well, hey, I'll let you go then so you can get ready for the next meeting. But I appreciate so much that you set aside time today to talk to me about all of this. It's really interesting.