[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, my increment, it was a lot of the same people that had been rotating, so they were all pretty experienced with being there. I didn't have to deal with any of that.

[Assistant] Well, that helped.

[User] Some of them were new, but overall the experience level was pretty high, and they all were fairly autonomous.

[Assistant] How is your Russian?

[User] My Russian stinks. It's okay, it's survival level. I can't get a cheeseburger with no pickles or something. I can get along.

[Assistant] Is it something you'd like to pursue and get better at?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Some of them were new, but overall the experience level was pretty high, and they all were fairly autonomous.

[Assistant] How is your Russian?

[User] My Russian stinks. It's okay, it's survival level. I can't get a cheeseburger with no pickles or something. I can get along.

[Assistant] Is it something you'd like to pursue and get better at?

[User] If I was going to go back I would want, but I don't plan on that. I'm not saying never. [Laughter]

[Assistant] You have learned something from this job.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My Russian stinks. It's okay, it's survival level. I can't get a cheeseburger with no pickles or something. I can get along.

[Assistant] Is it something you'd like to pursue and get better at?

[User] If I was going to go back I would want, but I don't plan on that. I'm not saying never. [Laughter]

[Assistant] You have learned something from this job.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Let's talk about your family experiences, because you were fortunate that at least you could home at night and have the comfort and warmth of your family there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] If I was going to go back I would want, but I don't plan on that. I'm not saying never. [Laughter]

[Assistant] You have learned something from this job.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Let's talk about your family experiences, because you were fortunate that at least you could home at night and have the comfort and warmth of your family there.

[User] Didn't have to make dinner.

[Assistant] You made dinner?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Let's talk about your family experiences, because you were fortunate that at least you could home at night and have the comfort and warmth of your family there.

[User] Didn't have to make dinner.

[Assistant] You made dinner?

[User] No way.

[Assistant] [Laughter] Did your wife and kids have friends there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Didn't have to make dinner.

[Assistant] You made dinner?

[User] No way.

[Assistant] [Laughter] Did your wife and kids have friends there?

[User] Many. The kids really had it hard, my wife did, too, because they have quite a network back here. They found some friends over there, a few. And the kids miss out on Little League and dance and all that. After a while I think that really wears on them.

[Assistant] How about education? Did you put them into Russian schools?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No way.

[Assistant] [Laughter] Did your wife and kids have friends there?

[User] Many. The kids really had it hard, my wife did, too, because they have quite a network back here. They found some friends over there, a few. And the kids miss out on Little League and dance and all that. After a while I think that really wears on them.

[Assistant] How about education? Did you put them into Russian schools?

[User] No, I wasn't going to do that. They could have gone to the embassy school if I'd given up my per diem. I wasn't going to give up my per diem because I wanted to take them Europe, and I wasn't going to be able to afford that without per diem, so we home-schooled them while they were there.

[Assistant] Well, that's a challenge in itself no matter where you are.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Many. The kids really had it hard, my wife did, too, because they have quite a network back here. They found some friends over there, a few. And the kids miss out on Little League and dance and all that. After a while I think that really wears on them.

[Assistant] How about education? Did you put them into Russian schools?

[User] No, I wasn't going to do that. They could have gone to the embassy school if I'd given up my per diem. I wasn't going to give up my per diem because I wanted to take them Europe, and I wasn't going to be able to afford that without per diem, so we home-schooled them while they were there.

[Assistant] Well, that's a challenge in itself no matter where you are.

[User] Yes, well, that was my wife's. She handled that with varying degrees of success.

[Assistant] That's school, though, in general.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I wasn't going to do that. They could have gone to the embassy school if I'd given up my per diem. I wasn't going to give up my per diem because I wanted to take them Europe, and I wasn't going to be able to afford that without per diem, so we home-schooled them while they were there.

[Assistant] Well, that's a challenge in itself no matter where you are.

[User] Yes, well, that was my wife's. She handled that with varying degrees of success.

[Assistant] That's school, though, in general.

[User] You just don't treat your mom like you do your teacher.

[Assistant] Were you able to go on to Europe and be able to do that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, well, that was my wife's. She handled that with varying degrees of success.

[Assistant] That's school, though, in general.

[User] You just don't treat your mom like you do your teacher.

[Assistant] Were you able to go on to Europe and be able to do that?

[User] Yes, we went to Germany, Austria, Italy, just kind of a little drive.

[Assistant] And that was pleasant?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You just don't treat your mom like you do your teacher.

[Assistant] Were you able to go on to Europe and be able to do that?

[User] Yes, we went to Germany, Austria, Italy, just kind of a little drive.

[Assistant] And that was pleasant?

[User] It was most excellent. It was very good. My wife came home and said, "I save $500 from flying Aeroflot." I said, "I don't think so." I said, "I work with these people every day, deal with their customer service every day. I'll pay you $500, I want to be on Lufthansa. I want to be treated like a customer. I don't care what it costs."

[Assistant] And you were glad to get home.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, we went to Germany, Austria, Italy, just kind of a little drive.

[Assistant] And that was pleasant?

[User] It was most excellent. It was very good. My wife came home and said, "I save $500 from flying Aeroflot." I said, "I don't think so." I said, "I work with these people every day, deal with their customer service every day. I'll pay you $500, I want to be on Lufthansa. I want to be treated like a customer. I don't care what it costs."

[Assistant] And you were glad to get home.

[User] Yes. Well, it was good to go to Germany. It was good to get back. It was kind of hard going back to Russia after that, but then you knew you only had so much time left, and then it was great to get home.

[Assistant] You haven't been home very long then, have you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was most excellent. It was very good. My wife came home and said, "I save $500 from flying Aeroflot." I said, "I don't think so." I said, "I work with these people every day, deal with their customer service every day. I'll pay you $500, I want to be on Lufthansa. I want to be treated like a customer. I don't care what it costs."

[Assistant] And you were glad to get home.

[User] Yes. Well, it was good to go to Germany. It was good to get back. It was kind of hard going back to Russia after that, but then you knew you only had so much time left, and then it was great to get home.

[Assistant] You haven't been home very long then, have you?

[User] I got home in early June. I went to the landing, which was like on the tenth or twelfth, I don't really remember.

[Assistant] Twelfth, I think.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Well, it was good to go to Germany. It was good to get back. It was kind of hard going back to Russia after that, but then you knew you only had so much time left, and then it was great to get home.

[Assistant] You haven't been home very long then, have you?

[User] I got home in early June. I went to the landing, which was like on the tenth or twelfth, I don't really remember.

[Assistant] Twelfth, I think.

[User] Twelfth. And I came back here on the fourteenth, and I came in the morning of the fifteenth and put in a leave slip, and I came back to work, whatever the first Monday in July was.

[Assistant] Getting back into some kind of routine.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I got home in early June. I went to the landing, which was like on the tenth or twelfth, I don't really remember.

[Assistant] Twelfth, I think.

[User] Twelfth. And I came back here on the fourteenth, and I came in the morning of the fifteenth and put in a leave slip, and I came back to work, whatever the first Monday in July was.

[Assistant] Getting back into some kind of routine.

[User] Yes. Back to the land of ISO 9000 and staff meetings.

[Assistant] But you're not listening to Russian every day.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Twelfth. And I came back here on the fourteenth, and I came in the morning of the fifteenth and put in a leave slip, and I came back to work, whatever the first Monday in July was.

[Assistant] Getting back into some kind of routine.

[User] Yes. Back to the land of ISO 9000 and staff meetings.

[Assistant] But you're not listening to Russian every day.

[User] I'd almost rather listen to Russian. [Laughter]

[Assistant] [Laughter] You were fortunate enough to be able to go to Russia with ISS, and then you were part of the Shuttle-Mir, and now you're back in the land of whatever norm is. How do you feel the Shuttle-Mir Program will benefit the ISS Program?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Back to the land of ISO 9000 and staff meetings.

[Assistant] But you're not listening to Russian every day.

[User] I'd almost rather listen to Russian. [Laughter]

[Assistant] [Laughter] You were fortunate enough to be able to go to Russia with ISS, and then you were part of the Shuttle-Mir, and now you're back in the land of whatever norm is. How do you feel the Shuttle-Mir Program will benefit the ISS Program?

[User] I don't think we could have done it without it. All those things that you do first. Air Force has Red Flag and the Navy has Top Gun, and one of the philosophies behind that is they said they found out if a fighter pilot survives his first ten missions, then he's probably going to do okay. I think Phase One was like our first, a way to walk through those first gripping experiences without having total responsibility for the whole station, and getting to know the Russians. Coming up against these crisis points with the Russians, and seeing how they react, and seeing what we do, without having all of the responsibility for resolving it, and learning how to work together on those things, that was invaluable. I don't know if many people really know. We've gone over a lot of those first humps without really--

[Assistant] It seems like a lot's been accomplished in such a small amount of time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'd almost rather listen to Russian. [Laughter]

[Assistant] [Laughter] You were fortunate enough to be able to go to Russia with ISS, and then you were part of the Shuttle-Mir, and now you're back in the land of whatever norm is. How do you feel the Shuttle-Mir Program will benefit the ISS Program?

[User] I don't think we could have done it without it. All those things that you do first. Air Force has Red Flag and the Navy has Top Gun, and one of the philosophies behind that is they said they found out if a fighter pilot survives his first ten missions, then he's probably going to do okay. I think Phase One was like our first, a way to walk through those first gripping experiences without having total responsibility for the whole station, and getting to know the Russians. Coming up against these crisis points with the Russians, and seeing how they react, and seeing what we do, without having all of the responsibility for resolving it, and learning how to work together on those things, that was invaluable. I don't know if many people really know. We've gone over a lot of those first humps without really--

[Assistant] It seems like a lot's been accomplished in such a small amount of time.

[User] Yes. It'll be a long time before people really appreciate it. Some people never will. They don't care.

[Assistant] We've talked about the lowest point of your term there. Is there a time that you remember as you were really glad that you volunteered to do this, that you felt the success that you knew that that position could have?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. It'll be a long time before people really appreciate it. Some people never will. They don't care.

[Assistant] We've talked about the lowest point of your term there. Is there a time that you remember as you were really glad that you volunteered to do this, that you felt the success that you knew that that position could have?

[User] Probably like three-quarters of the way through, after we'd gotten past our major problems, and the light was out there at the end of the tunnel, and you start thinking about what you're going to have to go back to, and you start thinking, "You know, this is a pretty good job." You've got a small team of people who pretty much know what they're doing, other than being a little dysfunctional family, and some points we're getting to go to this foreign country, you've got a small team, you're in charge. It's a relatively noble goal, and you're getting to report at a high level, although it isn't appreciated by a lot of the middle management, or a lot of people didn't really think Phase One was that much, but it was a good program. It was a good thing to have done. I don't care what anybody says. It was a nice way to serve, a nice thing to do.

[Assistant] You have to admit, it was different.

[User] Yes, but that's a good different.

[Assistant] Did it meet your expectations, or did you have expectations when you walked into the job?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably like three-quarters of the way through, after we'd gotten past our major problems, and the light was out there at the end of the tunnel, and you start thinking about what you're going to have to go back to, and you start thinking, "You know, this is a pretty good job." You've got a small team of people who pretty much know what they're doing, other than being a little dysfunctional family, and some points we're getting to go to this foreign country, you've got a small team, you're in charge. It's a relatively noble goal, and you're getting to report at a high level, although it isn't appreciated by a lot of the middle management, or a lot of people didn't really think Phase One was that much, but it was a good program. It was a good thing to have done. I don't care what anybody says. It was a nice way to serve, a nice thing to do.

[Assistant] You have to admit, it was different.

[User] Yes, but that's a good different.

[Assistant] Did it meet your expectations, or did you have expectations when you walked into the job?

[User] I think overall it did, yes. It wasn't too hard. We didn't have any of the crises of some of the other missions, major. It was not too bad.

[Assistant] I'm sure most people involved were glad that this one was kind of a calm one.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, but that's a good different.

[Assistant] Did it meet your expectations, or did you have expectations when you walked into the job?

[User] I think overall it did, yes. It wasn't too hard. We didn't have any of the crises of some of the other missions, major. It was not too bad.

[Assistant] I'm sure most people involved were glad that this one was kind of a calm one.

[User] Yes. Well, I wasn't. I didn't want anybody to get hurt, but it would be nice to have to go up against something.

[Assistant] Well, Andy might differ with that. [Laughter]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think overall it did, yes. It wasn't too hard. We didn't have any of the crises of some of the other missions, major. It was not too bad.

[Assistant] I'm sure most people involved were glad that this one was kind of a calm one.

[User] Yes. Well, I wasn't. I didn't want anybody to get hurt, but it would be nice to have to go up against something.

[Assistant] Well, Andy might differ with that. [Laughter]

[User] Oh, yes. I'm sure he felt like he was up against plenty. [Laughter]

[Assistant]
I'm going to ask Paul and Summer if they have any questions.

You said something about you and Frank knew each other in a former life; you were Air Force and he was Navy. How did that turn out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Well, I wasn't. I didn't want anybody to get hurt, but it would be nice to have to go up against something.

[Assistant] Well, Andy might differ with that. [Laughter]

[User] Oh, yes. I'm sure he felt like he was up against plenty. [Laughter]

[Assistant]
I'm going to ask Paul and Summer if they have any questions.

You said something about you and Frank knew each other in a former life; you were Air Force and he was Navy. How did that turn out?

[User] I was the lead flight director in Sunnyvale for a DOD [Department of Defense] payload, and he was the pilot for STS-38.

[Assistant] So this was working with him in a totally different capacity.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. I'm sure he felt like he was up against plenty. [Laughter]

[Assistant]
I'm going to ask Paul and Summer if they have any questions.

You said something about you and Frank knew each other in a former life; you were Air Force and he was Navy. How did that turn out?

[User] I was the lead flight director in Sunnyvale for a DOD [Department of Defense] payload, and he was the pilot for STS-38.

[Assistant] So this was working with him in a totally different capacity.

[User] Yes, but it was good. I knew Jim VanLaak quite a bit from before, too. He's the one that hired me on MOD into station. They both saved me. I was going to leave after ISS, because I'd had more than enough; I was burned out. If it hadn't been for Phase One, I'd probably be gone.

[Assistant] This is like shock treatment? They put you into Phase One to keep you going?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was the lead flight director in Sunnyvale for a DOD [Department of Defense] payload, and he was the pilot for STS-38.

[Assistant] So this was working with him in a totally different capacity.

[User] Yes, but it was good. I knew Jim VanLaak quite a bit from before, too. He's the one that hired me on MOD into station. They both saved me. I was going to leave after ISS, because I'd had more than enough; I was burned out. If it hadn't been for Phase One, I'd probably be gone.

[Assistant] This is like shock treatment? They put you into Phase One to keep you going?

[User] It was great. I'd much rather be on an operational program, doing real things than talking about stuff.

[Assistant] Or shuffling papers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, but it was good. I knew Jim VanLaak quite a bit from before, too. He's the one that hired me on MOD into station. They both saved me. I was going to leave after ISS, because I'd had more than enough; I was burned out. If it hadn't been for Phase One, I'd probably be gone.

[Assistant] This is like shock treatment? They put you into Phase One to keep you going?

[User] It was great. I'd much rather be on an operational program, doing real things than talking about stuff.

[Assistant] Or shuffling papers.

[User] That drives me nuts. Arguing about stuff that doesn't matter.

[Assistant] What time of day was it when they'd call up? Would it be at eight o'clock here in Houston?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was great. I'd much rather be on an operational program, doing real things than talking about stuff.

[Assistant] Or shuffling papers.

[User] That drives me nuts. Arguing about stuff that doesn't matter.

[Assistant] What time of day was it when they'd call up? Would it be at eight o'clock here in Houston?

[User] No, it'd probably be six-thirty or seven.

[Assistant] How long would y'all talk?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That drives me nuts. Arguing about stuff that doesn't matter.

[Assistant] What time of day was it when they'd call up? Would it be at eight o'clock here in Houston?

[User] No, it'd probably be six-thirty or seven.

[Assistant] How long would y'all talk?

[User] Not very long; ten, fifteen minutes. You just wanted to know. He cheats. [Laughter] He calls and then he goes into his staff meeting and asks his people what's going on. And then he says, "No, that's not what's going on. This is what's going on."

[Assistant] [Laughter] Sounds like a move of a smart manager. He knows his people well.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it'd probably be six-thirty or seven.

[Assistant] How long would y'all talk?

[User] Not very long; ten, fifteen minutes. You just wanted to know. He cheats. [Laughter] He calls and then he goes into his staff meeting and asks his people what's going on. And then he says, "No, that's not what's going on. This is what's going on."

[Assistant] [Laughter] Sounds like a move of a smart manager. He knows his people well.

[User] He's pretty wired, yes.

[Assistant] He's a commander from all aspects, I guess.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not very long; ten, fifteen minutes. You just wanted to know. He cheats. [Laughter] He calls and then he goes into his staff meeting and asks his people what's going on. And then he says, "No, that's not what's going on. This is what's going on."

[Assistant] [Laughter] Sounds like a move of a smart manager. He knows his people well.

[User] He's pretty wired, yes.

[Assistant] He's a commander from all aspects, I guess.

[User] Yes. I like him a lot.

[Assistant]
Summer, do you have any questions?

No.

Well, would you do it again?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He's pretty wired, yes.

[Assistant] He's a commander from all aspects, I guess.

[User] Yes. I like him a lot.

[Assistant]
Summer, do you have any questions?

No.

Well, would you do it again?

[User] No. I won't do it again. I think it was an excellent thing to do once. If I had that to do over again, I would do it again, actually. I won't go back.

[Assistant] You think the position and the way that the team was set up in Russia, is that a necessity for ISS, or would you suggest making changes? Or is it too early even to predict that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I like him a lot.

[Assistant]
Summer, do you have any questions?

No.

Well, would you do it again?

[User] No. I won't do it again. I think it was an excellent thing to do once. If I had that to do over again, I would do it again, actually. I won't go back.

[Assistant] You think the position and the way that the team was set up in Russia, is that a necessity for ISS, or would you suggest making changes? Or is it too early even to predict that?

[User] Well, it's not going to be nearly as much fun in Phase Two, because there's way too many people involved now. Everybody in this whole thing is so Shuttle-centered. Now they'll all pile on, there will be a lot more people involved, and you won't have the same autonomy as before. The team will get bigger. It won't be the same again. That was fun. It won't be fun anymore, I don't think.\n\n I think there are some flaws in the way it's set up. Because you're there for five months, five months is almost as bad as you can get. You can't sell your house, you can't let things drop back here, but you're gone, and it doesn't pay to change your address and all that stuff, but you're going to have to deal with your bills and your mail and everything else, and the kids in school. I can pull them out of school and home-school them once. I can't continuously yank them in and out of school. I just can't do that. You're going to have to be single or divorced or about to be to keep doing that. You just can't do that.

[Assistant] Are they adjusting well being back home now? They fall right back into a routine?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. I won't do it again. I think it was an excellent thing to do once. If I had that to do over again, I would do it again, actually. I won't go back.

[Assistant] You think the position and the way that the team was set up in Russia, is that a necessity for ISS, or would you suggest making changes? Or is it too early even to predict that?

[User] Well, it's not going to be nearly as much fun in Phase Two, because there's way too many people involved now. Everybody in this whole thing is so Shuttle-centered. Now they'll all pile on, there will be a lot more people involved, and you won't have the same autonomy as before. The team will get bigger. It won't be the same again. That was fun. It won't be fun anymore, I don't think.\n\n I think there are some flaws in the way it's set up. Because you're there for five months, five months is almost as bad as you can get. You can't sell your house, you can't let things drop back here, but you're gone, and it doesn't pay to change your address and all that stuff, but you're going to have to deal with your bills and your mail and everything else, and the kids in school. I can pull them out of school and home-school them once. I can't continuously yank them in and out of school. I just can't do that. You're going to have to be single or divorced or about to be to keep doing that. You just can't do that.

[Assistant] Are they adjusting well being back home now? They fall right back into a routine?

[User] Oh, yes. We had hoped that they would learn that they don't need nearly as much, they would see that other people are getting by. All they did was pent up a little capitalism and head straight to the mall when we got back.

[Assistant] [Laughter] Went to the grocery store to buy the things that they want to eat.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it's not going to be nearly as much fun in Phase Two, because there's way too many people involved now. Everybody in this whole thing is so Shuttle-centered. Now they'll all pile on, there will be a lot more people involved, and you won't have the same autonomy as before. The team will get bigger. It won't be the same again. That was fun. It won't be fun anymore, I don't think.\n\n I think there are some flaws in the way it's set up. Because you're there for five months, five months is almost as bad as you can get. You can't sell your house, you can't let things drop back here, but you're gone, and it doesn't pay to change your address and all that stuff, but you're going to have to deal with your bills and your mail and everything else, and the kids in school. I can pull them out of school and home-school them once. I can't continuously yank them in and out of school. I just can't do that. You're going to have to be single or divorced or about to be to keep doing that. You just can't do that.

[Assistant] Are they adjusting well being back home now? They fall right back into a routine?

[User] Oh, yes. We had hoped that they would learn that they don't need nearly as much, they would see that other people are getting by. All they did was pent up a little capitalism and head straight to the mall when we got back.

[Assistant] [Laughter] Went to the grocery store to buy the things that they want to eat.

[User] Yes, and drive around in their own car, go where they want when they want.

[Assistant] The traffic a little more tolerable here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. We had hoped that they would learn that they don't need nearly as much, they would see that other people are getting by. All they did was pent up a little capitalism and head straight to the mall when we got back.

[Assistant] [Laughter] Went to the grocery store to buy the things that they want to eat.

[User] Yes, and drive around in their own car, go where they want when they want.

[Assistant] The traffic a little more tolerable here?

[User] Oh, yes. [Laughter] There's no oncoming cars in your lane, no dead pedestrians.

[Assistant] Do you feel that the crew members on Mir were safer than you were in that van?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, and drive around in their own car, go where they want when they want.

[Assistant] The traffic a little more tolerable here?

[User] Oh, yes. [Laughter] There's no oncoming cars in your lane, no dead pedestrians.

[Assistant] Do you feel that the crew members on Mir were safer than you were in that van?

[User] I'd like to think so. There's a whole group of people looking out for you. You've just got this driver who doesn't even speak English. Oh, my God.

[Assistant] Did y'all feel safe when you were there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. [Laughter] There's no oncoming cars in your lane, no dead pedestrians.

[Assistant] Do you feel that the crew members on Mir were safer than you were in that van?

[User] I'd like to think so. There's a whole group of people looking out for you. You've just got this driver who doesn't even speak English. Oh, my God.

[Assistant] Did y'all feel safe when you were there?

[User] No. I mean, overall yes, but it's not Kansas. It's a dangerous place. You get hurt, you can't just turn to somebody. If you come up in the middle of a fight, you don't know who the good guy is or the bad buy is, and you don't know if this is about to go asymptotic You don't know what you're in the middle of. Some grungy over there might be the safest guy on the road, and this well-dressed guy over here might be a mafia guy. You just don't know.

[Assistant] Did you personally feel, when you got home, there was something specific you wanted to do as soon as you hit Houston? Something you missed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'd like to think so. There's a whole group of people looking out for you. You've just got this driver who doesn't even speak English. Oh, my God.

[Assistant] Did y'all feel safe when you were there?

[User] No. I mean, overall yes, but it's not Kansas. It's a dangerous place. You get hurt, you can't just turn to somebody. If you come up in the middle of a fight, you don't know who the good guy is or the bad buy is, and you don't know if this is about to go asymptotic You don't know what you're in the middle of. Some grungy over there might be the safest guy on the road, and this well-dressed guy over here might be a mafia guy. You just don't know.

[Assistant] Did you personally feel, when you got home, there was something specific you wanted to do as soon as you hit Houston? Something you missed?

[User] Actually, I took care of that when I was in Florida. I wanted a big old steak and a baked potato and a salad, and I didn't want to have to worry about what the word was or what I wanted. I just wanted to eat it.

[Assistant] And be happy. [Laughter]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. I mean, overall yes, but it's not Kansas. It's a dangerous place. You get hurt, you can't just turn to somebody. If you come up in the middle of a fight, you don't know who the good guy is or the bad buy is, and you don't know if this is about to go asymptotic You don't know what you're in the middle of. Some grungy over there might be the safest guy on the road, and this well-dressed guy over here might be a mafia guy. You just don't know.

[Assistant] Did you personally feel, when you got home, there was something specific you wanted to do as soon as you hit Houston? Something you missed?

[User] Actually, I took care of that when I was in Florida. I wanted a big old steak and a baked potato and a salad, and I didn't want to have to worry about what the word was or what I wanted. I just wanted to eat it.

[Assistant] And be happy. [Laughter]

[User] Yes. Go to the beach.

[Assistant] I guess maybe the word is you were able to relax once you got home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Actually, I took care of that when I was in Florida. I wanted a big old steak and a baked potato and a salad, and I didn't want to have to worry about what the word was or what I wanted. I just wanted to eat it.

[Assistant] And be happy. [Laughter]

[User] Yes. Go to the beach.

[Assistant] I guess maybe the word is you were able to relax once you got home?

[User] Yes. Well, as soon as the wheels leave the ground in Moscow, that's a major emotional event, number one. Then when you land in the U.S., if you just get to the U.S. you can handle any problem. I can pull out my Visa or my American Express, and I can fix anything. I can tell you what I want, or I can pick up the phone and it'll work, I don't have to have eighty different kinds of tokens or count rubles.\n\n I went to the grocery store when I was in Cocoa Beach to buy a Pepsi, a twelve-pack of Pepsi. I went in there at it was like $2.89. So I went, "Okay, what's that in dollars?" So I divided by six, and I went, "That ain't right, let's multiply by six." I multiplied by six, and I thought, "God, that's too much. Oh, it's $2.89."

[Assistant] No wonder your brain's kind of tired.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Go to the beach.

[Assistant] I guess maybe the word is you were able to relax once you got home?

[User] Yes. Well, as soon as the wheels leave the ground in Moscow, that's a major emotional event, number one. Then when you land in the U.S., if you just get to the U.S. you can handle any problem. I can pull out my Visa or my American Express, and I can fix anything. I can tell you what I want, or I can pick up the phone and it'll work, I don't have to have eighty different kinds of tokens or count rubles.\n\n I went to the grocery store when I was in Cocoa Beach to buy a Pepsi, a twelve-pack of Pepsi. I went in there at it was like $2.89. So I went, "Okay, what's that in dollars?" So I divided by six, and I went, "That ain't right, let's multiply by six." I multiplied by six, and I thought, "God, that's too much. Oh, it's $2.89."

[Assistant] No wonder your brain's kind of tired.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Nothing was simple.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Well, as soon as the wheels leave the ground in Moscow, that's a major emotional event, number one. Then when you land in the U.S., if you just get to the U.S. you can handle any problem. I can pull out my Visa or my American Express, and I can fix anything. I can tell you what I want, or I can pick up the phone and it'll work, I don't have to have eighty different kinds of tokens or count rubles.\n\n I went to the grocery store when I was in Cocoa Beach to buy a Pepsi, a twelve-pack of Pepsi. I went in there at it was like $2.89. So I went, "Okay, what's that in dollars?" So I divided by six, and I went, "That ain't right, let's multiply by six." I multiplied by six, and I thought, "God, that's too much. Oh, it's $2.89."

[Assistant] No wonder your brain's kind of tired.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Nothing was simple.

[User] No. Everything's a chore.

[Assistant] We hope that the next few months are somewhat relaxing and you can enjoy the rest of the summer and get back on some routine with your family.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Nothing was simple.

[User] No. Everything's a chore.

[Assistant] We hope that the next few months are somewhat relaxing and you can enjoy the rest of the summer and get back on some routine with your family.

[User] Oh, yes. We're already back.

[Assistant] Well, we're glad that you took time out of your schedule to come visit with us. We appreciate it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Everything's a chore.

[Assistant] We hope that the next few months are somewhat relaxing and you can enjoy the rest of the summer and get back on some routine with your family.

[User] Oh, yes. We're already back.

[Assistant] Well, we're glad that you took time out of your schedule to come visit with us. We appreciate it.

[User] No problem.

[Assistant] Thank you again.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. We're already back.

[Assistant] Well, we're glad that you took time out of your schedule to come visit with us. We appreciate it.

[User] No problem.

[Assistant] Thank you again.

[User] Good thing to do.

[Assistant] Thanks. [Tape recorder turned off; then activated again for the following.]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No problem.

[Assistant] Thank you again.

[User] Good thing to do.

[Assistant] Thanks. [Tape recorder turned off; then activated again for the following.]

[User] Andy [Thomas] called down and he said that he had picked up the photo TV check list, and he had looked at the contingency page, and he had gotten quite a laugh. He appreciated that because it was the first good laugh he had had in months. I said, "Oh, that's great," but I had no idea what he was talking about. [Laughter] So I called back to Houston. I said, "What's in the photo TV checklist?" This is the photo TV checklist, contingency tab. This is the picture they took at the last training session, the last NASA-7 training session. It says, "Everything will be fine." It's got this pull tab. The photo TV people put that thing up.

[Assistant]
That's terrific.

That was always your definitive statement.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Good thing to do.

[Assistant] Thanks. [Tape recorder turned off; then activated again for the following.]

[User] Andy [Thomas] called down and he said that he had picked up the photo TV check list, and he had looked at the contingency page, and he had gotten quite a laugh. He appreciated that because it was the first good laugh he had had in months. I said, "Oh, that's great," but I had no idea what he was talking about. [Laughter] So I called back to Houston. I said, "What's in the photo TV checklist?" This is the photo TV checklist, contingency tab. This is the picture they took at the last training session, the last NASA-7 training session. It says, "Everything will be fine." It's got this pull tab. The photo TV people put that thing up.

[Assistant]
That's terrific.

That was always your definitive statement.

[User] That's right. "Everything's fine. Just carry on." Kept telling Andy that in orbit, too.

[Assistant]
That's great.

And it was.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Andy [Thomas] called down and he said that he had picked up the photo TV check list, and he had looked at the contingency page, and he had gotten quite a laugh. He appreciated that because it was the first good laugh he had had in months. I said, "Oh, that's great," but I had no idea what he was talking about. [Laughter] So I called back to Houston. I said, "What's in the photo TV checklist?" This is the photo TV checklist, contingency tab. This is the picture they took at the last training session, the last NASA-7 training session. It says, "Everything will be fine." It's got this pull tab. The photo TV people put that thing up.

[Assistant]
That's terrific.

That was always your definitive statement.

[User] That's right. "Everything's fine. Just carry on." Kept telling Andy that in orbit, too.

[Assistant]
That's great.

And it was.

[User] Yes. Good thing.

[Assistant] Or you'd have to have your picture replaced.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's right. "Everything's fine. Just carry on." Kept telling Andy that in orbit, too.

[Assistant]
That's great.

And it was.

[User] Yes. Good thing.

[Assistant] Or you'd have to have your picture replaced.

[User] Yes. Come back and have scars drawn on it and stuff.

[Assistant] Well, maybe Andy will hang that in his house. Or maybe you can hang that in your house.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Good thing.

[Assistant] Or you'd have to have your picture replaced.

[User] Yes. Come back and have scars drawn on it and stuff.

[Assistant] Well, maybe Andy will hang that in his house. Or maybe you can hang that in your house.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] It's a good thing he read that, or it could have been one of those secrets that nobody would able have been able to know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Chuck Piercy.

[Assistant] Chuck Piercy, and it is July 14, 2015, and we are in room 5100. So, Mr. Piercy, could you please provide a brief overview of your career at the National Archives?

[User] I've worked here since about September of 2008 and will be retiring, and moving to another position on July 25, 2015.

[Assistant] Have you held multiple positions here? Or what positions have you held?

[User] Yes, I originally came here to be the Deputy Chief Information Officer and then while I was in that position the Chief Information Officer retired and so I was acting CIO for about 10-11 months and then I was offered the position I'm in now which is the Executive for Business Support Services.

[Assistant] How did your education and previous work experience influence your decision to work for the National Archives?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I've worked here since about September of 2008 and will be retiring, and moving to another position on July 25, 2015.

[Assistant] Have you held multiple positions here? Or what positions have you held?

[User] Yes, I originally came here to be the Deputy Chief Information Officer and then while I was in that position the Chief Information Officer retired and so I was acting CIO for about 10-11 months and then I was offered the position I'm in now which is the Executive for Business Support Services.

[Assistant] How did your education and previous work experience influence your decision to work for the National Archives?

[User] My previous work experience was with NOAA, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and I had worked there for a number of years in engineering and program management, and those were skills that were deemed to be useful by the Chief Information Officer for the Electronic Records Archives and some of the other big electronic records projects that were going on.

[Assistant] What were your original impressions of NARA?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I originally came here to be the Deputy Chief Information Officer and then while I was in that position the Chief Information Officer retired and so I was acting CIO for about 10-11 months and then I was offered the position I'm in now which is the Executive for Business Support Services.

[Assistant] How did your education and previous work experience influence your decision to work for the National Archives?

[User] My previous work experience was with NOAA, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and I had worked there for a number of years in engineering and program management, and those were skills that were deemed to be useful by the Chief Information Officer for the Electronic Records Archives and some of the other big electronic records projects that were going on.

[Assistant] What were your original impressions of NARA?

[User] I guess I originally expected to see much more in the way of electronic records, storage, and preservation. And I was initially surprised to see that many, most of the records here at the archives were in paper and other analog formats.

[Assistant] Any particular reason? Or could you provide some more context as to why you expected there to be more digital than more paper?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My previous work experience was with NOAA, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and I had worked there for a number of years in engineering and program management, and those were skills that were deemed to be useful by the Chief Information Officer for the Electronic Records Archives and some of the other big electronic records projects that were going on.

[Assistant] What were your original impressions of NARA?

[User] I guess I originally expected to see much more in the way of electronic records, storage, and preservation. And I was initially surprised to see that many, most of the records here at the archives were in paper and other analog formats.

[Assistant] Any particular reason? Or could you provide some more context as to why you expected there to be more digital than more paper?

[User] Well, I've been in the working world for about 35 years, and maybe in the first five of those years we actually had born-analog records on typewriters and things, but for the last 30 years all records have been created from electronic sources, and therefore it just seems like it would be more efficient to accession the electronic version of the record rather than a paper version of it. They're essentially all created electronically—we used to the term born digital—almost everything is born- digital—it's just that we archive the analog version.

[Assistant] How has the balance between paper and digital records evolved during your time here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I guess I originally expected to see much more in the way of electronic records, storage, and preservation. And I was initially surprised to see that many, most of the records here at the archives were in paper and other analog formats.

[Assistant] Any particular reason? Or could you provide some more context as to why you expected there to be more digital than more paper?

[User] Well, I've been in the working world for about 35 years, and maybe in the first five of those years we actually had born-analog records on typewriters and things, but for the last 30 years all records have been created from electronic sources, and therefore it just seems like it would be more efficient to accession the electronic version of the record rather than a paper version of it. They're essentially all created electronically—we used to the term born digital—almost everything is born- digital—it's just that we archive the analog version.

[Assistant] How has the balance between paper and digital records evolved during your time here?

[User] I've been here for almost 7 years and I haven’t seen any real breakthroughs in terms of a movement toward electronic records. Except possibly for the Presidential Memo and the update to the Federal Records Act, which I think has the potential for some real movement.

[Assistant] What exactly is the Federal Records Act?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I've been in the working world for about 35 years, and maybe in the first five of those years we actually had born-analog records on typewriters and things, but for the last 30 years all records have been created from electronic sources, and therefore it just seems like it would be more efficient to accession the electronic version of the record rather than a paper version of it. They're essentially all created electronically—we used to the term born digital—almost everything is born- digital—it's just that we archive the analog version.

[Assistant] How has the balance between paper and digital records evolved during your time here?

[User] I've been here for almost 7 years and I haven’t seen any real breakthroughs in terms of a movement toward electronic records. Except possibly for the Presidential Memo and the update to the Federal Records Act, which I think has the potential for some real movement.

[Assistant] What exactly is the Federal Records Act?

[User] The Federal Records Act is the act of Congress that controls the preservation and management of Federal records.

[Assistant] What successes have you achieved here at NARA?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I've been here for almost 7 years and I haven’t seen any real breakthroughs in terms of a movement toward electronic records. Except possibly for the Presidential Memo and the update to the Federal Records Act, which I think has the potential for some real movement.

[Assistant] What exactly is the Federal Records Act?

[User] The Federal Records Act is the act of Congress that controls the preservation and management of Federal records.

[Assistant] What successes have you achieved here at NARA?

[User] Well, I think a big one was helping to make the Electronic Records Archives system program operational with the initial operating capability. The program was in real danger of being killed by OMB (Office of Management and Budget) and Congress, and we worked very hard to keep that from happening; it was shortened but it was not killed, and at one time it was about 20% of the NARA budget, so that's a pretty important thing. When I was in the CIO shop we had quite a few successful projects, including the network attached storage that added about two petabytes of storage here that was critically needed. Both for email file storage, shared drive file storage, but also for scanned image storage, and we updated all the servers and since I've been in been in Business Support Services, we've had a couple of historic building renovations including the National Archives Experience Phase II or NAE II in the National Archives Building in Washington, DC and the Customs House renovation for the National Archives space and the Customs House in lower Manhattan. So quite a few accomplishments, I think.

[Assistant] You mentioned sort of the friction in the budget with congress and in the importance of the ERA—could you speak to the urgency of the electronic records archive?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The Federal Records Act is the act of Congress that controls the preservation and management of Federal records.

[Assistant] What successes have you achieved here at NARA?

[User] Well, I think a big one was helping to make the Electronic Records Archives system program operational with the initial operating capability. The program was in real danger of being killed by OMB (Office of Management and Budget) and Congress, and we worked very hard to keep that from happening; it was shortened but it was not killed, and at one time it was about 20% of the NARA budget, so that's a pretty important thing. When I was in the CIO shop we had quite a few successful projects, including the network attached storage that added about two petabytes of storage here that was critically needed. Both for email file storage, shared drive file storage, but also for scanned image storage, and we updated all the servers and since I've been in been in Business Support Services, we've had a couple of historic building renovations including the National Archives Experience Phase II or NAE II in the National Archives Building in Washington, DC and the Customs House renovation for the National Archives space and the Customs House in lower Manhattan. So quite a few accomplishments, I think.

[Assistant] You mentioned sort of the friction in the budget with congress and in the importance of the ERA—could you speak to the urgency of the electronic records archive?

[User] Yeah, the electronic records archives program had been going on for quite a few years, and Congress and OMB grew impatient for signs of success and milestones that would point to our success, and so one thing we had to do was we were given a firm deadline—I believe it was the end of calendar year 2011—to complete it and make it operation. And we met that deadline and were able to preserve the funding for the program

[Assistant] What aspects of your work do you most enjoy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think a big one was helping to make the Electronic Records Archives system program operational with the initial operating capability. The program was in real danger of being killed by OMB (Office of Management and Budget) and Congress, and we worked very hard to keep that from happening; it was shortened but it was not killed, and at one time it was about 20% of the NARA budget, so that's a pretty important thing. When I was in the CIO shop we had quite a few successful projects, including the network attached storage that added about two petabytes of storage here that was critically needed. Both for email file storage, shared drive file storage, but also for scanned image storage, and we updated all the servers and since I've been in been in Business Support Services, we've had a couple of historic building renovations including the National Archives Experience Phase II or NAE II in the National Archives Building in Washington, DC and the Customs House renovation for the National Archives space and the Customs House in lower Manhattan. So quite a few accomplishments, I think.

[Assistant] You mentioned sort of the friction in the budget with congress and in the importance of the ERA—could you speak to the urgency of the electronic records archive?

[User] Yeah, the electronic records archives program had been going on for quite a few years, and Congress and OMB grew impatient for signs of success and milestones that would point to our success, and so one thing we had to do was we were given a firm deadline—I believe it was the end of calendar year 2011—to complete it and make it operation. And we met that deadline and were able to preserve the funding for the program

[Assistant] What aspects of your work do you most enjoy?

[User] I really like working with people and sort of forming teams to get projects accomplished. And I have a project management background and I would really like to be able to point to something as a firm accomplishment.

[Assistant] What's the greatest team you’ve worked on here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, the electronic records archives program had been going on for quite a few years, and Congress and OMB grew impatient for signs of success and milestones that would point to our success, and so one thing we had to do was we were given a firm deadline—I believe it was the end of calendar year 2011—to complete it and make it operation. And we met that deadline and were able to preserve the funding for the program

[Assistant] What aspects of your work do you most enjoy?

[User] I really like working with people and sort of forming teams to get projects accomplished. And I have a project management background and I would really like to be able to point to something as a firm accomplishment.

[Assistant] What's the greatest team you’ve worked on here?

[User] I would say probably the team associated with Electronic Records Archives; also the storage area network was a pretty large project: it was a four or five million dollar project and had hardware at both College Park and Rocket Center, and that was a pretty large and successful team.

[Assistant] What is Rocket Center?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I really like working with people and sort of forming teams to get projects accomplished. And I have a project management background and I would really like to be able to point to something as a firm accomplishment.

[Assistant] What's the greatest team you’ve worked on here?

[User] I would say probably the team associated with Electronic Records Archives; also the storage area network was a pretty large project: it was a four or five million dollar project and had hardware at both College Park and Rocket Center, and that was a pretty large and successful team.

[Assistant] What is Rocket Center?

[User] Rocket Center is really two things; it's our continuity, or COOP, Continuity of Operations site. So, in the event of a catastrophic event in the Washington, DC area we could go to Rocket Center and resume operations of the agency. I hold the position called the continuity coordinator, which is one of my many hats. And so we annually have a continuity drill at Rocket Center. In addition, the base instance and the EOP instance of ERA are at Rocket Center, and so we have a full-time contingent of staff that are up there to maintain that.

[Assistant] Where is Rocket Center?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I would say probably the team associated with Electronic Records Archives; also the storage area network was a pretty large project: it was a four or five million dollar project and had hardware at both College Park and Rocket Center, and that was a pretty large and successful team.

[Assistant] What is Rocket Center?

[User] Rocket Center is really two things; it's our continuity, or COOP, Continuity of Operations site. So, in the event of a catastrophic event in the Washington, DC area we could go to Rocket Center and resume operations of the agency. I hold the position called the continuity coordinator, which is one of my many hats. And so we annually have a continuity drill at Rocket Center. In addition, the base instance and the EOP instance of ERA are at Rocket Center, and so we have a full-time contingent of staff that are up there to maintain that.

[Assistant] Where is Rocket Center?

[User] It's in West Virginia, really in the middle of nowhere, really. In the panhandle of West Virginia and that's sort of by design, as we wanted it at least 50 or 60 miles out of Washington, DC in a relatively unpopulated area. It actually is on a Navy base in West Virginia.

[Assistant] Have there been any instances where it seemed possible that you would have to go there or were there any near cases of that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Rocket Center is really two things; it's our continuity, or COOP, Continuity of Operations site. So, in the event of a catastrophic event in the Washington, DC area we could go to Rocket Center and resume operations of the agency. I hold the position called the continuity coordinator, which is one of my many hats. And so we annually have a continuity drill at Rocket Center. In addition, the base instance and the EOP instance of ERA are at Rocket Center, and so we have a full-time contingent of staff that are up there to maintain that.

[Assistant] Where is Rocket Center?

[User] It's in West Virginia, really in the middle of nowhere, really. In the panhandle of West Virginia and that's sort of by design, as we wanted it at least 50 or 60 miles out of Washington, DC in a relatively unpopulated area. It actually is on a Navy base in West Virginia.

[Assistant] Have there been any instances where it seemed possible that you would have to go there or were there any near cases of that?

[User] I can't think of anything that was catastrophic enough that we would need to go there since I've been working here. We did have a pretty severe earthquake in—

[Assistant] (interposing) Summer 2011, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's in West Virginia, really in the middle of nowhere, really. In the panhandle of West Virginia and that's sort of by design, as we wanted it at least 50 or 60 miles out of Washington, DC in a relatively unpopulated area. It actually is on a Navy base in West Virginia.

[Assistant] Have there been any instances where it seemed possible that you would have to go there or were there any near cases of that?

[User] I can't think of anything that was catastrophic enough that we would need to go there since I've been working here. We did have a pretty severe earthquake in—

[Assistant] (interposing) Summer 2011, right?

[User] 2011, and we've had the possibility of tornadoes that could have affected the College Park facility, possible flooding in the National Archives, but, no, we've never had any actual events that where we've had to actually activate the COOP plan.

[Assistant] And the name of that particular hat is the Continuity Manager, you said?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I can't think of anything that was catastrophic enough that we would need to go there since I've been working here. We did have a pretty severe earthquake in—

[Assistant] (interposing) Summer 2011, right?

[User] 2011, and we've had the possibility of tornadoes that could have affected the College Park facility, possible flooding in the National Archives, but, no, we've never had any actual events that where we've had to actually activate the COOP plan.

[Assistant] And the name of that particular hat is the Continuity Manager, you said?

[User] Continuity Coordinator.

[Assistant] Continuity Coordinator. And how did you take on that position?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] 2011, and we've had the possibility of tornadoes that could have affected the College Park facility, possible flooding in the National Archives, but, no, we've never had any actual events that where we've had to actually activate the COOP plan.

[Assistant] And the name of that particular hat is the Continuity Manager, you said?

[User] Continuity Coordinator.

[Assistant] Continuity Coordinator. And how did you take on that position?

[User] It's position that all agencies have to have, and as the head of Business Support Services I have many hats that I wear that are requirements of law or requirements in executive orders. We'll get a new executive order that says we need a senior official in charge of X, Y, Z and sometimes that comes to me in Business Support Services.

[Assistant] And what are some examples of your other hats? I like that analogy.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Continuity Coordinator.

[Assistant] Continuity Coordinator. And how did you take on that position?

[User] It's position that all agencies have to have, and as the head of Business Support Services I have many hats that I wear that are requirements of law or requirements in executive orders. We'll get a new executive order that says we need a senior official in charge of X, Y, Z and sometimes that comes to me in Business Support Services.

[Assistant] And what are some examples of your other hats? I like that analogy.

[User] You see my hats over there on the desk. I am the Senior Official for Historic Facility Preservation Policy here at the Archives. I am the Designated Agency Safety and Health Official or the DASHO. I am the Senior Agency Security Official, and there's several other ones, as identified in NARA 101.

[Assistant] What do you do for the policy one?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's position that all agencies have to have, and as the head of Business Support Services I have many hats that I wear that are requirements of law or requirements in executive orders. We'll get a new executive order that says we need a senior official in charge of X, Y, Z and sometimes that comes to me in Business Support Services.

[Assistant] And what are some examples of your other hats? I like that analogy.

[User] You see my hats over there on the desk. I am the Senior Official for Historic Facility Preservation Policy here at the Archives. I am the Designated Agency Safety and Health Official or the DASHO. I am the Senior Agency Security Official, and there's several other ones, as identified in NARA 101.

[Assistant] What do you do for the policy one?

[User] It has to do with historic preservation, and we have several NARA properties that are significant historic buildings, such as the national historic archives building in Washington, DC, and these buildings cannot be modified without going through a number of steps to make sure that certain facades or certain spaces within the building are left in their current historic state, and so that's what the position has to do with.

[Assistant] Going back to your daily activities: can you describe a typical day in your unit?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You see my hats over there on the desk. I am the Senior Official for Historic Facility Preservation Policy here at the Archives. I am the Designated Agency Safety and Health Official or the DASHO. I am the Senior Agency Security Official, and there's several other ones, as identified in NARA 101.

[Assistant] What do you do for the policy one?

[User] It has to do with historic preservation, and we have several NARA properties that are significant historic buildings, such as the national historic archives building in Washington, DC, and these buildings cannot be modified without going through a number of steps to make sure that certain facades or certain spaces within the building are left in their current historic state, and so that's what the position has to do with.

[Assistant] Going back to your daily activities: can you describe a typical day in your unit?

[User] Pretty typical day is I arrive at about 7:30 in the morning and I have a cup of coffee and then will read emails. I get quite a few emails, even overnight I'll have quite a few emails, so I will scan those first to make sure that nothing urgent, and then I'll read them basically in chronological order. Fairly busy schedule, sometimes meetings back to back all day, and then will end my day with more emails, after noon. And sometimes there are crises. We've had a garage fire while I've been here, which had four fire trucks that responded. Two cars completely burned up and the possibility of many more cars being burned and possibly losing the entire garage. There's always something going on, always some sort of exciting crisis to solve.

[Assistant] Hopefully the garage fire isn't a typical day, but that leads right into my next question, which is, what were some of the challenges and issues that you faced in your career with the agency?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It has to do with historic preservation, and we have several NARA properties that are significant historic buildings, such as the national historic archives building in Washington, DC, and these buildings cannot be modified without going through a number of steps to make sure that certain facades or certain spaces within the building are left in their current historic state, and so that's what the position has to do with.

[Assistant] Going back to your daily activities: can you describe a typical day in your unit?

[User] Pretty typical day is I arrive at about 7:30 in the morning and I have a cup of coffee and then will read emails. I get quite a few emails, even overnight I'll have quite a few emails, so I will scan those first to make sure that nothing urgent, and then I'll read them basically in chronological order. Fairly busy schedule, sometimes meetings back to back all day, and then will end my day with more emails, after noon. And sometimes there are crises. We've had a garage fire while I've been here, which had four fire trucks that responded. Two cars completely burned up and the possibility of many more cars being burned and possibly losing the entire garage. There's always something going on, always some sort of exciting crisis to solve.

[Assistant] Hopefully the garage fire isn't a typical day, but that leads right into my next question, which is, what were some of the challenges and issues that you faced in your career with the agency?

[User] I think events like the garage fire and the earthquake were pretty challenging. We did have some shelving collapses at Suitland during the earthquake, and we had to make some emergency repairs to the building. We had to quickly assess impact to the College Park facility and Archives I and I think those things are probably some of the biggest challenges.

[Assistant] What has been your relationship with other Federal agencies?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Pretty typical day is I arrive at about 7:30 in the morning and I have a cup of coffee and then will read emails. I get quite a few emails, even overnight I'll have quite a few emails, so I will scan those first to make sure that nothing urgent, and then I'll read them basically in chronological order. Fairly busy schedule, sometimes meetings back to back all day, and then will end my day with more emails, after noon. And sometimes there are crises. We've had a garage fire while I've been here, which had four fire trucks that responded. Two cars completely burned up and the possibility of many more cars being burned and possibly losing the entire garage. There's always something going on, always some sort of exciting crisis to solve.

[Assistant] Hopefully the garage fire isn't a typical day, but that leads right into my next question, which is, what were some of the challenges and issues that you faced in your career with the agency?

[User] I think events like the garage fire and the earthquake were pretty challenging. We did have some shelving collapses at Suitland during the earthquake, and we had to make some emergency repairs to the building. We had to quickly assess impact to the College Park facility and Archives I and I think those things are probably some of the biggest challenges.

[Assistant] What has been your relationship with other Federal agencies?

[User] We have a pretty close relationship with Federal agencies, particularly with the CIO council I've worked a lot, and that is primarily the CIOs of the cabinet-level agencies, work closely with them and with OMB and in some cases with staffers on the hill to help meet our objectives.

[Assistant] How so? Can you provide some examples of working with congressional staffs?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think events like the garage fire and the earthquake were pretty challenging. We did have some shelving collapses at Suitland during the earthquake, and we had to make some emergency repairs to the building. We had to quickly assess impact to the College Park facility and Archives I and I think those things are probably some of the biggest challenges.

[Assistant] What has been your relationship with other Federal agencies?

[User] We have a pretty close relationship with Federal agencies, particularly with the CIO council I've worked a lot, and that is primarily the CIOs of the cabinet-level agencies, work closely with them and with OMB and in some cases with staffers on the hill to help meet our objectives.

[Assistant] How so? Can you provide some examples of working with congressional staffs?

[User] Well, we've had meetings with them on budgetary issues, particularly a lot of interaction during the ERA, something called the tech stat, technical status review, which were done government- wide and identified ERA as a program in trouble or a program that was not meeting its objectives, and so I had to work close with both OMB and the Hill in terms of that, in terms of making sure that we identified milestones that we could meet and keep the program going.

[Assistant] What are some of those milestones?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We have a pretty close relationship with Federal agencies, particularly with the CIO council I've worked a lot, and that is primarily the CIOs of the cabinet-level agencies, work closely with them and with OMB and in some cases with staffers on the hill to help meet our objectives.

[Assistant] How so? Can you provide some examples of working with congressional staffs?

[User] Well, we've had meetings with them on budgetary issues, particularly a lot of interaction during the ERA, something called the tech stat, technical status review, which were done government- wide and identified ERA as a program in trouble or a program that was not meeting its objectives, and so I had to work close with both OMB and the Hill in terms of that, in terms of making sure that we identified milestones that we could meet and keep the program going.

[Assistant] What are some of those milestones?

[User] Well, the milestones would be completing the last software release that would enable the system to become operational and other milestones were in terms of the volume of records that we got into the system and the number of agencies that were able to utilize it.

[Assistant] And what exactly is the mission of the ERA?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we've had meetings with them on budgetary issues, particularly a lot of interaction during the ERA, something called the tech stat, technical status review, which were done government- wide and identified ERA as a program in trouble or a program that was not meeting its objectives, and so I had to work close with both OMB and the Hill in terms of that, in terms of making sure that we identified milestones that we could meet and keep the program going.

[Assistant] What are some of those milestones?

[User] Well, the milestones would be completing the last software release that would enable the system to become operational and other milestones were in terms of the volume of records that we got into the system and the number of agencies that were able to utilize it.

[Assistant] And what exactly is the mission of the ERA?

[User] Well, the mission of ERA is to store and preserve and provide access to the records of the Federal government in electronic form, so the records that get accessioned and injested into ERA are completely in electronic form; we never see the paper versions of those records.

[Assistant] Correct me if I'm wrong, but it does not include the records that were paper and then become digital?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the mission of ERA is to store and preserve and provide access to the records of the Federal government in electronic form, so the records that get accessioned and injested into ERA are completely in electronic form; we never see the paper versions of those records.

[Assistant] Correct me if I'm wrong, but it does not include the records that were paper and then become digital?

[User] No, it does not.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] It includes a digital surrogates, which are essentially digitized paper records, although it could, it could be expanded to include those, and may in the future.

[Assistant] How do you foresee the future of the ERA? Especially as more, let's say, agency records become more and more digital.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it does not.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] It includes a digital surrogates, which are essentially digitized paper records, although it could, it could be expanded to include those, and may in the future.

[Assistant] How do you foresee the future of the ERA? Especially as more, let's say, agency records become more and more digital.

[User] Well, I'm not involved in it, but there are plans for a replacement of ERA that are being made now. I don't know if they're going to call it ERA 2 or next-generation ERA, but those plans are coming together now from an architectural standpoint. And that's the future of the archives, I think. It may be a slow transition, but I think eventually our job will transition to full Electronic Records Archives.

[Assistant] What technological changes over time have you observed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It includes a digital surrogates, which are essentially digitized paper records, although it could, it could be expanded to include those, and may in the future.

[Assistant] How do you foresee the future of the ERA? Especially as more, let's say, agency records become more and more digital.

[User] Well, I'm not involved in it, but there are plans for a replacement of ERA that are being made now. I don't know if they're going to call it ERA 2 or next-generation ERA, but those plans are coming together now from an architectural standpoint. And that's the future of the archives, I think. It may be a slow transition, but I think eventually our job will transition to full Electronic Records Archives.

[Assistant] What technological changes over time have you observed?

[User] That's an interesting question.

[Assistant] I'm actually writing a research paper on it too.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I'm not involved in it, but there are plans for a replacement of ERA that are being made now. I don't know if they're going to call it ERA 2 or next-generation ERA, but those plans are coming together now from an architectural standpoint. And that's the future of the archives, I think. It may be a slow transition, but I think eventually our job will transition to full Electronic Records Archives.

[Assistant] What technological changes over time have you observed?

[User] That's an interesting question.

[Assistant] I'm actually writing a research paper on it too.

[User] Oh, okay.

[Assistant] (interposing) But it's also on my sheet.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's an interesting question.

[Assistant] I'm actually writing a research paper on it too.

[User] Oh, okay.

[Assistant] (interposing) But it's also on my sheet.

[User] Well, I'm an electrical engineer by training. And I've seen massive change in computer technology in my career. I was working in the Navy in the early days of the internet, and we would have this massive minicomputer that will fill this entire room almost. And that was our connection to the internet. And people would access the minicomputer by dial-in modem. Seems almost primitive by today's standards, but we also, at that lab, had supercomputers and, you know, some of these computers had less computing power than my smartphone does now.

[Assistant] That's interesting: the analogy you made between computers and what your smartphone can do now.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, okay.

[Assistant] (interposing) But it's also on my sheet.

[User] Well, I'm an electrical engineer by training. And I've seen massive change in computer technology in my career. I was working in the Navy in the early days of the internet, and we would have this massive minicomputer that will fill this entire room almost. And that was our connection to the internet. And people would access the minicomputer by dial-in modem. Seems almost primitive by today's standards, but we also, at that lab, had supercomputers and, you know, some of these computers had less computing power than my smartphone does now.

[Assistant] That's interesting: the analogy you made between computers and what your smartphone can do now.

[User] Yeah, in fact, the Android smartphones run the Linux operating system, which was the same one, Unix, Linux, same operating system these massive old computers used to run like 30 years ago, so the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Assistant] More broadly speaking, what other changes have you witnessed at your time at NARA?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I'm an electrical engineer by training. And I've seen massive change in computer technology in my career. I was working in the Navy in the early days of the internet, and we would have this massive minicomputer that will fill this entire room almost. And that was our connection to the internet. And people would access the minicomputer by dial-in modem. Seems almost primitive by today's standards, but we also, at that lab, had supercomputers and, you know, some of these computers had less computing power than my smartphone does now.

[Assistant] That's interesting: the analogy you made between computers and what your smartphone can do now.

[User] Yeah, in fact, the Android smartphones run the Linux operating system, which was the same one, Unix, Linux, same operating system these massive old computers used to run like 30 years ago, so the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Assistant] More broadly speaking, what other changes have you witnessed at your time at NARA?

[User] I've seen one sort of constant change is the need to acquire more storage space for analog records, and that was a priority when I first came here, seven years, even though I was working more on the electronic side, but it remains a big challenge today and we're constantly looking for ways to acquire new space to store analog records.

[Assistant] Are you involved with any other professional organization such as SAA or OAH or any of those those?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, in fact, the Android smartphones run the Linux operating system, which was the same one, Unix, Linux, same operating system these massive old computers used to run like 30 years ago, so the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Assistant] More broadly speaking, what other changes have you witnessed at your time at NARA?

[User] I've seen one sort of constant change is the need to acquire more storage space for analog records, and that was a priority when I first came here, seven years, even though I was working more on the electronic side, but it remains a big challenge today and we're constantly looking for ways to acquire new space to store analog records.

[Assistant] Are you involved with any other professional organization such as SAA or OAH or any of those those?

[User] Not to any great degree. I have attended some of the conferences though.

[Assistant] Have you attended any particularly interesting conferences for your work here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I've seen one sort of constant change is the need to acquire more storage space for analog records, and that was a priority when I first came here, seven years, even though I was working more on the electronic side, but it remains a big challenge today and we're constantly looking for ways to acquire new space to store analog records.

[Assistant] Are you involved with any other professional organization such as SAA or OAH or any of those those?

[User] Not to any great degree. I have attended some of the conferences though.

[Assistant] Have you attended any particularly interesting conferences for your work here?

[User] Yeah I've actually attended some of the sort of forward-looking technological symposiums that discussed new approaches to electronic archives such as the LOCKSS approach: Lots Of Copies Keep Stuff Safe. Which, we propose an electronic archives that is in many geographical locations and data are simply copied from one spinning disk—one array of spinning disks to another array of spinning disks in a different geographical location and perhaps you wouldn’t even need to keep the data on tape because you have so many electronic copies scattered throughout the country. So, I've heard some really interesting approaches to electronic archives. We've also I will also say that I've also seen some interesting innovative approaches to traditional archives as well, in particular the Library of Congress facility up in Fort Meade, Maryland, which was quite interesting.

[Assistant] And how would those-- I don’t really understand it, but that's okay. Those spinning reels and the changes in geography, how would that affect daily operations, let's say, in the research room?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not to any great degree. I have attended some of the conferences though.

[Assistant] Have you attended any particularly interesting conferences for your work here?

[User] Yeah I've actually attended some of the sort of forward-looking technological symposiums that discussed new approaches to electronic archives such as the LOCKSS approach: Lots Of Copies Keep Stuff Safe. Which, we propose an electronic archives that is in many geographical locations and data are simply copied from one spinning disk—one array of spinning disks to another array of spinning disks in a different geographical location and perhaps you wouldn’t even need to keep the data on tape because you have so many electronic copies scattered throughout the country. So, I've heard some really interesting approaches to electronic archives. We've also I will also say that I've also seen some interesting innovative approaches to traditional archives as well, in particular the Library of Congress facility up in Fort Meade, Maryland, which was quite interesting.

[Assistant] And how would those-- I don’t really understand it, but that's okay. Those spinning reels and the changes in geography, how would that affect daily operations, let's say, in the research room?

[User] Well, the current operations in the research room is original—original records are presented to researchers and they have the option of coping those original records. If the original record is electronic, then the access copy is electronic, and my thing—I'm not an archivist, nor do I claim to be an archivist, but my feeling is that that has to result in less wear and tear on the original, particularly if you can get into a mode where your access copy is electronic; whether the preservation copy is paper or digital, you have less wear and tear on the original.

[Assistant] Interesting. How do you view your time overall at NARA?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah I've actually attended some of the sort of forward-looking technological symposiums that discussed new approaches to electronic archives such as the LOCKSS approach: Lots Of Copies Keep Stuff Safe. Which, we propose an electronic archives that is in many geographical locations and data are simply copied from one spinning disk—one array of spinning disks to another array of spinning disks in a different geographical location and perhaps you wouldn’t even need to keep the data on tape because you have so many electronic copies scattered throughout the country. So, I've heard some really interesting approaches to electronic archives. We've also I will also say that I've also seen some interesting innovative approaches to traditional archives as well, in particular the Library of Congress facility up in Fort Meade, Maryland, which was quite interesting.

[Assistant] And how would those-- I don’t really understand it, but that's okay. Those spinning reels and the changes in geography, how would that affect daily operations, let's say, in the research room?

[User] Well, the current operations in the research room is original—original records are presented to researchers and they have the option of coping those original records. If the original record is electronic, then the access copy is electronic, and my thing—I'm not an archivist, nor do I claim to be an archivist, but my feeling is that that has to result in less wear and tear on the original, particularly if you can get into a mode where your access copy is electronic; whether the preservation copy is paper or digital, you have less wear and tear on the original.

[Assistant] Interesting. How do you view your time overall at NARA?

[User] Very positive. I've had a lot of opportunities working here that I wouldn't have otherwise. I think, in particular, a big benefit of working at NARA is its status as a mid-sized to small independent agency, and so you're able to participate in a lot of activities that you may not be able to participate in a larger cabinet-level agency.

[Assistant] What are some examples of those activities?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the current operations in the research room is original—original records are presented to researchers and they have the option of coping those original records. If the original record is electronic, then the access copy is electronic, and my thing—I'm not an archivist, nor do I claim to be an archivist, but my feeling is that that has to result in less wear and tear on the original, particularly if you can get into a mode where your access copy is electronic; whether the preservation copy is paper or digital, you have less wear and tear on the original.

[Assistant] Interesting. How do you view your time overall at NARA?

[User] Very positive. I've had a lot of opportunities working here that I wouldn't have otherwise. I think, in particular, a big benefit of working at NARA is its status as a mid-sized to small independent agency, and so you're able to participate in a lot of activities that you may not be able to participate in a larger cabinet-level agency.

[Assistant] What are some examples of those activities?

[User] well, interactions with OMB, interactions with the Hill, interactions with the GAO (Government Accountability Office) and other things like that that might in a larger agency be handled in the headquarters by political appointees.

[Assistant] Can you speak to your significant contributions to the National Archives such as the ERA or the historic preservation field?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Very positive. I've had a lot of opportunities working here that I wouldn't have otherwise. I think, in particular, a big benefit of working at NARA is its status as a mid-sized to small independent agency, and so you're able to participate in a lot of activities that you may not be able to participate in a larger cabinet-level agency.

[Assistant] What are some examples of those activities?

[User] well, interactions with OMB, interactions with the Hill, interactions with the GAO (Government Accountability Office) and other things like that that might in a larger agency be handled in the headquarters by political appointees.

[Assistant] Can you speak to your significant contributions to the National Archives such as the ERA or the historic preservation field?

[User] Well, I think a big contribution was the oversight of the NAE II project that really-

[Assistant] (interposing) Can you define what did that acronym stand for one more time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] well, interactions with OMB, interactions with the Hill, interactions with the GAO (Government Accountability Office) and other things like that that might in a larger agency be handled in the headquarters by political appointees.

[Assistant] Can you speak to your significant contributions to the National Archives such as the ERA or the historic preservation field?

[User] Well, I think a big contribution was the oversight of the NAE II project that really-

[Assistant] (interposing) Can you define what did that acronym stand for one more time?

[User] National Archives Experience, Phase II, which at a visitor orientation plaza in the National Archives Building it provided the Rubenstein Gallery, which houses Magna Carta, and I think it just makes the museum portion of the building work much better. Much more user friendly, much more inviting to guests. I think it increases the throughput of the museum, it makes the learning easier and natural for visitors with the Rubenstein Gallery, and overall I think it has been a very big improvement to a very historic and important building on the Washington mall.

[Assistant] what year did you say that was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think a big contribution was the oversight of the NAE II project that really-

[Assistant] (interposing) Can you define what did that acronym stand for one more time?

[User] National Archives Experience, Phase II, which at a visitor orientation plaza in the National Archives Building it provided the Rubenstein Gallery, which houses Magna Carta, and I think it just makes the museum portion of the building work much better. Much more user friendly, much more inviting to guests. I think it increases the throughput of the museum, it makes the learning easier and natural for visitors with the Rubenstein Gallery, and overall I think it has been a very big improvement to a very historic and important building on the Washington mall.

[Assistant] what year did you say that was?

[User] That was completed about 2 years ago, I think, in about 2013.

[Assistant] Does that include the Public Vaults?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] National Archives Experience, Phase II, which at a visitor orientation plaza in the National Archives Building it provided the Rubenstein Gallery, which houses Magna Carta, and I think it just makes the museum portion of the building work much better. Much more user friendly, much more inviting to guests. I think it increases the throughput of the museum, it makes the learning easier and natural for visitors with the Rubenstein Gallery, and overall I think it has been a very big improvement to a very historic and important building on the Washington mall.

[Assistant] what year did you say that was?

[User] That was completed about 2 years ago, I think, in about 2013.

[Assistant] Does that include the Public Vaults?

[User] No, the public vaults were existing were actually part of the NAE I, the original National Archives Experience renovation, part of the original renovation of the building.

[Assistant] When was that, the first preservation?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was completed about 2 years ago, I think, in about 2013.

[Assistant] Does that include the Public Vaults?

[User] No, the public vaults were existing were actually part of the NAE I, the original National Archives Experience renovation, part of the original renovation of the building.

[Assistant] When was that, the first preservation?

[User] That was before my time. I believe it was about 10 or 12 years ago.

[Assistant] And where will you be going next?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, the public vaults were existing were actually part of the NAE I, the original National Archives Experience renovation, part of the original renovation of the building.

[Assistant] When was that, the first preservation?

[User] That was before my time. I believe it was about 10 or 12 years ago.

[Assistant] And where will you be going next?

[User] I will be retired for one day on Sunday on the July 26 and I will start a new job with the Harris Corporation on Monday, July 27.

[Assistant] To what extent has the National Archives influenced that move?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was before my time. I believe it was about 10 or 12 years ago.

[Assistant] And where will you be going next?

[User] I will be retired for one day on Sunday on the July 26 and I will start a new job with the Harris Corporation on Monday, July 27.

[Assistant] To what extent has the National Archives influenced that move?

[User] I basically got a very nice offer from a private-sector firm and I happened to be able to retire, so it was just a good move. And I like to not stay in the same place for too long. I think seven years is a pretty good run here at the National Archives, and I really appreciate the opportunities I’ve had to advance my career here and learn.

[Assistant] Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time, and do you have anything you would like to add to the interview such as anecdotes or words of wisdom?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, plus it keeps you in sequence on stuff. Plus, there's a certain way that all everybody answers the same questions in the same sequence or whatever.

[Assistant] So this is the first one is, why did you come? Why did you join the Peace Corps?

[User] I joined the Peace Corps because I had worked on Robert Kennedy's campaign and was actually at work that night watching the returns from California. And when I saw him shot and killed, I was devastated and felt like I just needed to get out of the country and do something constructive, that the America that was there that time was not something that I recognized.

[Assistant] Before you joined the Peace Corps, can you give us a little background about just growing up, your education and experiences that might be relevant?

[User] I had a three year scholarship to a diploma School of Nursing in Danbury, Connecticut, had graduated in 1962, had started out on a medicine floor and segued to over to Danbury Hospital's emergency room, which was a fledgling process at that time. It was one of the few emergency rooms that it opened in Connecticut. I was lucky enough while I was working in the emergency room to be part of their team that was set up and did the disaster program and part of the original team that was put together to learn how to do and respond to cardiac arrests in the hospital.

[Assistant] Wow, I mean, so that whole cardiac arrest procedure was all developing during the ‘60s, right?