[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Yes. I was cockpit for the Orbiter.

Guidance and control.

I was in the Guidance and Control Division so everything in the cockpit became my necessity. When we started designing, we went around the country on two different tours to visit different companies to see what modern airplanes were using. We built on that data.\n\n The astronauts that were senior at that time were used to flying mechanical instruments because they were a little older. They weren’t used to CRTs [cathode ray tubes]. There was a little bias against CRTs. We built the original cockpit without them, and we added them later on.

[Assistant] I forgot to ask. Where was your original office? You moved here and the Center wasn’t built.

[User] Original was Building 16.

[Assistant] Were you located off site before the Center officially opened?

[User]
No, it was open by the time we got here.

It was open by the time we got here I think. Building 1 was finished, and 16, we were moving in.

Then you were in 36 for a long time, and then you went to Building 1.

That was probably only—36 was ready, and Building 1 is when I ended up—

In the Space Shuttle. Chief Engineer for the Shuttle.

[Assistant] Nice way to end one’s career.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Original was Building 16.

[Assistant] Were you located off site before the Center officially opened?

[User]
No, it was open by the time we got here.

It was open by the time we got here I think. Building 1 was finished, and 16, we were moving in.

Then you were in 36 for a long time, and then you went to Building 1.

That was probably only—36 was ready, and Building 1 is when I ended up—

In the Space Shuttle. Chief Engineer for the Shuttle.

[Assistant] Nice way to end one’s career.

[User] It was, it was.

[Assistant] Feather in your cap. I wanted to ask you about your friends in the area. Were most of your friends also from NASA? What sort of things would you get together and do in terms of entertainment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
No, it was open by the time we got here.

It was open by the time we got here I think. Building 1 was finished, and 16, we were moving in.

Then you were in 36 for a long time, and then you went to Building 1.

That was probably only—36 was ready, and Building 1 is when I ended up—

In the Space Shuttle. Chief Engineer for the Shuttle.

[Assistant] Nice way to end one’s career.

[User] It was, it was.

[Assistant] Feather in your cap. I wanted to ask you about your friends in the area. Were most of your friends also from NASA? What sort of things would you get together and do in terms of entertainment?

[User]
We didn’t do much of that.

Yes, we were pretty much homebodies. We didn’t do the splashdown parties and that sort of thing. The only one that I remember is at the Astrodome after the Moon landing, they had a huge event there. Frank Sinatra came and a whole bunch of Hollywood people. I still have the program for that, but we didn’t do a lot of partying. We were just homebodies really.

[Assistant] Did you guys bowl or play cards? Trying to think of things that people might do.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was, it was.

[Assistant] Feather in your cap. I wanted to ask you about your friends in the area. Were most of your friends also from NASA? What sort of things would you get together and do in terms of entertainment?

[User]
We didn’t do much of that.

Yes, we were pretty much homebodies. We didn’t do the splashdown parties and that sort of thing. The only one that I remember is at the Astrodome after the Moon landing, they had a huge event there. Frank Sinatra came and a whole bunch of Hollywood people. I still have the program for that, but we didn’t do a lot of partying. We were just homebodies really.

[Assistant] Did you guys bowl or play cards? Trying to think of things that people might do.

[User]
No. I played tennis after work. Had a couple other people, and we played doubles tennis. Then we got into the track deal at a school over in Webster.

Webster.

We would go over there and run laps just to unwind, but we didn’t do much socializing I guess. The church was involved.

Yes. We had neighbors. We did a couple of block parties and that sort of thing, just neighbors. They were all NASA people anyway.

[Assistant] I was curious about that, because that’s something that people don’t do today, these block parties, these neighborhood parties. I wondered if you would talk about it, because it seems to me kind of like a spontaneous thing. Just come out and take your kids and let them play and bring a dish and pass it around.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
We didn’t do much of that.

Yes, we were pretty much homebodies. We didn’t do the splashdown parties and that sort of thing. The only one that I remember is at the Astrodome after the Moon landing, they had a huge event there. Frank Sinatra came and a whole bunch of Hollywood people. I still have the program for that, but we didn’t do a lot of partying. We were just homebodies really.

[Assistant] Did you guys bowl or play cards? Trying to think of things that people might do.

[User]
No. I played tennis after work. Had a couple other people, and we played doubles tennis. Then we got into the track deal at a school over in Webster.

Webster.

We would go over there and run laps just to unwind, but we didn’t do much socializing I guess. The church was involved.

Yes. We had neighbors. We did a couple of block parties and that sort of thing, just neighbors. They were all NASA people anyway.

[Assistant] I was curious about that, because that’s something that people don’t do today, these block parties, these neighborhood parties. I wondered if you would talk about it, because it seems to me kind of like a spontaneous thing. Just come out and take your kids and let them play and bring a dish and pass it around.

[User]
That’s it. Yes. It was safe. The kids played out in the street during the day. We felt like they were safe.

For the block parties we somehow got the street blocked off so you couldn’t drive down it.

We were on a street that was just one block.

The rec center was a very active place, and the playgrounds around it.

Went to the swimming pool, spent the day at the pool.

[Assistant] I think Joan [Robertson, daughter] mentioned either there was just an outdoor pool and then the indoor pool came, or was it the indoor pool first?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
No. I played tennis after work. Had a couple other people, and we played doubles tennis. Then we got into the track deal at a school over in Webster.

Webster.

We would go over there and run laps just to unwind, but we didn’t do much socializing I guess. The church was involved.

Yes. We had neighbors. We did a couple of block parties and that sort of thing, just neighbors. They were all NASA people anyway.

[Assistant] I was curious about that, because that’s something that people don’t do today, these block parties, these neighborhood parties. I wondered if you would talk about it, because it seems to me kind of like a spontaneous thing. Just come out and take your kids and let them play and bring a dish and pass it around.

[User]
That’s it. Yes. It was safe. The kids played out in the street during the day. We felt like they were safe.

For the block parties we somehow got the street blocked off so you couldn’t drive down it.

We were on a street that was just one block.

The rec center was a very active place, and the playgrounds around it.

Went to the swimming pool, spent the day at the pool.

[Assistant] I think Joan [Robertson, daughter] mentioned either there was just an outdoor pool and then the indoor pool came, or was it the indoor pool first?

[User]
The outside one was first, and then they added the indoor with a new extension there. Yes, the rec center was busy. Of course during the week it was school. That’s where our son went to school that first year. He was in first grade with Mr. Royal. Mr. Royal.

Then they finished the—

Then they finished the school and John was in the first class that attended the Clear Lake Elementary. Then through the years our son, our daughter, and our granddaughter went to the same school, and she’s doing her practice teaching there.

[Assistant] Oh my gosh.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
That’s it. Yes. It was safe. The kids played out in the street during the day. We felt like they were safe.

For the block parties we somehow got the street blocked off so you couldn’t drive down it.

We were on a street that was just one block.

The rec center was a very active place, and the playgrounds around it.

Went to the swimming pool, spent the day at the pool.

[Assistant] I think Joan [Robertson, daughter] mentioned either there was just an outdoor pool and then the indoor pool came, or was it the indoor pool first?

[User]
The outside one was first, and then they added the indoor with a new extension there. Yes, the rec center was busy. Of course during the week it was school. That’s where our son went to school that first year. He was in first grade with Mr. Royal. Mr. Royal.

Then they finished the—

Then they finished the school and John was in the first class that attended the Clear Lake Elementary. Then through the years our son, our daughter, and our granddaughter went to the same school, and she’s doing her practice teaching there.

[Assistant] Oh my gosh.

[User] So it’s really something.

[Assistant] Yes, multigenerational, that’s great.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
The outside one was first, and then they added the indoor with a new extension there. Yes, the rec center was busy. Of course during the week it was school. That’s where our son went to school that first year. He was in first grade with Mr. Royal. Mr. Royal.

Then they finished the—

Then they finished the school and John was in the first class that attended the Clear Lake Elementary. Then through the years our son, our daughter, and our granddaughter went to the same school, and she’s doing her practice teaching there.

[Assistant] Oh my gosh.

[User] So it’s really something.

[Assistant] Yes, multigenerational, that’s great.

[User] Yes, and the school has changed a good deal of course.

[Assistant] I bet. It seems like the area has changed. I think Joan, for instance, mentioned that she didn’t remember you guys ever locking your door. You pretty much just left things open.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, and the school has changed a good deal of course.

[Assistant] I bet. It seems like the area has changed. I think Joan, for instance, mentioned that she didn’t remember you guys ever locking your door. You pretty much just left things open.

[User] You don’t dare do that anymore.

[Assistant] No.

[User]
You made an effort to know your neighbors.

There were no apartment complexes, for quite some time.

The only thing they had was where Mom moved into, remember? Those were rental, I’m pretty sure. She was there for about two years, and then she bought a house over on the other side of Highway 3.

[Assistant] You mentioned the Clear Lake Rec Center, which I think is interesting. I’ve read some of—is it Betty Ulrich?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You don’t dare do that anymore.

[Assistant] No.

[User]
You made an effort to know your neighbors.

There were no apartment complexes, for quite some time.

The only thing they had was where Mom moved into, remember? Those were rental, I’m pretty sure. She was there for about two years, and then she bought a house over on the other side of Highway 3.

[Assistant] You mentioned the Clear Lake Rec Center, which I think is interesting. I’ve read some of—is it Betty Ulrich?

[User] Ulrich, yes, she was around the corner from us, yes.

[Assistant] She included a few of the community newsletters [in her papers], and she has letters in there that she wrote home to family and talked about all the different things that were going on at the rec center. Things like Thanksgiving dinners and different parties and events. I wonder if you would talk about some of those that you might recall, even if you didn’t participate. It seems like it was a real center of community for at least this area.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
You made an effort to know your neighbors.

There were no apartment complexes, for quite some time.

The only thing they had was where Mom moved into, remember? Those were rental, I’m pretty sure. She was there for about two years, and then she bought a house over on the other side of Highway 3.

[Assistant] You mentioned the Clear Lake Rec Center, which I think is interesting. I’ve read some of—is it Betty Ulrich?

[User] Ulrich, yes, she was around the corner from us, yes.

[Assistant] She included a few of the community newsletters [in her papers], and she has letters in there that she wrote home to family and talked about all the different things that were going on at the rec center. Things like Thanksgiving dinners and different parties and events. I wonder if you would talk about some of those that you might recall, even if you didn’t participate. It seems like it was a real center of community for at least this area.

[User] Right. I remember going. She started a library there, and that was of interest to me, because I’m a librarian of course. She started what grew into what is now the Freeman Library. I think the children’s room at the Freeman is dedicated in her honor. She lived around the corner from us.

[Assistant] Where was the library in the rec center itself? I know there’s a whole bunch of different spaces in the building.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Ulrich, yes, she was around the corner from us, yes.

[Assistant] She included a few of the community newsletters [in her papers], and she has letters in there that she wrote home to family and talked about all the different things that were going on at the rec center. Things like Thanksgiving dinners and different parties and events. I wonder if you would talk about some of those that you might recall, even if you didn’t participate. It seems like it was a real center of community for at least this area.

[User] Right. I remember going. She started a library there, and that was of interest to me, because I’m a librarian of course. She started what grew into what is now the Freeman Library. I think the children’s room at the Freeman is dedicated in her honor. She lived around the corner from us.

[Assistant] Where was the library in the rec center itself? I know there’s a whole bunch of different spaces in the building.

[User] When Friendswood left there was a sales office that was right on the corner of where the tennis courts are now. They had a portable sales office. It was just a little small building. The Freeman Library started there. Then they made room for it right inside the rec center on one side of the rec center. Then they built the building later. So it started in the sales room.

[Assistant] Did you end up volunteering there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. I remember going. She started a library there, and that was of interest to me, because I’m a librarian of course. She started what grew into what is now the Freeman Library. I think the children’s room at the Freeman is dedicated in her honor. She lived around the corner from us.

[Assistant] Where was the library in the rec center itself? I know there’s a whole bunch of different spaces in the building.

[User] When Friendswood left there was a sales office that was right on the corner of where the tennis courts are now. They had a portable sales office. It was just a little small building. The Freeman Library started there. Then they made room for it right inside the rec center on one side of the rec center. Then they built the building later. So it started in the sales room.

[Assistant] Did you end up volunteering there?

[User] No, I didn’t, I was busy with my kids. I didn’t really get back into library work till my kids got older. I’ve always been a homebody.

[Assistant] And that’s okay. I’m kind of the same way.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When Friendswood left there was a sales office that was right on the corner of where the tennis courts are now. They had a portable sales office. It was just a little small building. The Freeman Library started there. Then they made room for it right inside the rec center on one side of the rec center. Then they built the building later. So it started in the sales room.

[Assistant] Did you end up volunteering there?

[User] No, I didn’t, I was busy with my kids. I didn’t really get back into library work till my kids got older. I’ve always been a homebody.

[Assistant] And that’s okay. I’m kind of the same way.

[User]
Yes. I had to be there for the kids.

I was traveling a lot. It would have been tough to try to do that.

[Assistant] You had also mentioned something in your history that you wrote, Betty, that I thought was fascinating, and that was if you bought a house here, you had a one-year membership to the country club. We moved here in 2003, and I think it had been closed. If you could talk about that, because that also seems like a space where there might have been a lot of community building going on. Did you ever go over there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I didn’t, I was busy with my kids. I didn’t really get back into library work till my kids got older. I’ve always been a homebody.

[Assistant] And that’s okay. I’m kind of the same way.

[User]
Yes. I had to be there for the kids.

I was traveling a lot. It would have been tough to try to do that.

[Assistant] You had also mentioned something in your history that you wrote, Betty, that I thought was fascinating, and that was if you bought a house here, you had a one-year membership to the country club. We moved here in 2003, and I think it had been closed. If you could talk about that, because that also seems like a space where there might have been a lot of community building going on. Did you ever go over there?

[User] My mom was a champion golfer, so she was very happy about that. Yes, they gave us a year membership. Every Sunday afternoon they had a buffet. It was a free buffet for the residents. They had a swimming pool, and our kids would go swimming there.

[Assistant] Oh, another pool.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Yes. I had to be there for the kids.

I was traveling a lot. It would have been tough to try to do that.

[Assistant] You had also mentioned something in your history that you wrote, Betty, that I thought was fascinating, and that was if you bought a house here, you had a one-year membership to the country club. We moved here in 2003, and I think it had been closed. If you could talk about that, because that also seems like a space where there might have been a lot of community building going on. Did you ever go over there?

[User] My mom was a champion golfer, so she was very happy about that. Yes, they gave us a year membership. Every Sunday afternoon they had a buffet. It was a free buffet for the residents. They had a swimming pool, and our kids would go swimming there.

[Assistant] Oh, another pool.

[User]
Yes. It was very nice.

It was well kept up. I don’t think I played golf but a couple times.

We’re not golfers. My mom was very happy about it, but she was club champion for three years.

[Assistant] The country club, am I correct, was it off of Diana? Or was it off of—Ramada or Reseda? I’m trying to remember which way the roads run.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My mom was a champion golfer, so she was very happy about that. Yes, they gave us a year membership. Every Sunday afternoon they had a buffet. It was a free buffet for the residents. They had a swimming pool, and our kids would go swimming there.

[Assistant] Oh, another pool.

[User]
Yes. It was very nice.

It was well kept up. I don’t think I played golf but a couple times.

We’re not golfers. My mom was very happy about it, but she was club champion for three years.

[Assistant] The country club, am I correct, was it off of Diana? Or was it off of—Ramada or Reseda? I’m trying to remember which way the roads run.

[User] Where the rec center is now, you go down the same lot towards Ramada or Reseda.

[Assistant] I always forget those two.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Yes. It was very nice.

It was well kept up. I don’t think I played golf but a couple times.

We’re not golfers. My mom was very happy about it, but she was club champion for three years.

[Assistant] The country club, am I correct, was it off of Diana? Or was it off of—Ramada or Reseda? I’m trying to remember which way the roads run.

[User] Where the rec center is now, you go down the same lot towards Ramada or Reseda.

[Assistant] I always forget those two.

[User] Yes, I get them mixed up. But anyway it was on that corner where the retention pond is.

[Assistant] I think that was the first phase [of Exploration Green].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Where the rec center is now, you go down the same lot towards Ramada or Reseda.

[Assistant] I always forget those two.

[User] Yes, I get them mixed up. But anyway it was on that corner where the retention pond is.

[Assistant] I think that was the first phase [of Exploration Green].

[User] What was interesting, there were rumors that they were going to close the golf course, so they had some kind of a reunion. I remember going to a fancy dinner there. They were closing the golf course. A lot of the original people came to that dinner. Can’t remember when that was.

[Assistant] That might have been around when we purchased our house, because I think it was open for a short time, and they made the decision to close it. We bought in 2003, maybe 2004, 2005.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I get them mixed up. But anyway it was on that corner where the retention pond is.

[Assistant] I think that was the first phase [of Exploration Green].

[User] What was interesting, there were rumors that they were going to close the golf course, so they had some kind of a reunion. I remember going to a fancy dinner there. They were closing the golf course. A lot of the original people came to that dinner. Can’t remember when that was.

[Assistant] That might have been around when we purchased our house, because I think it was open for a short time, and they made the decision to close it. We bought in 2003, maybe 2004, 2005.

[User] Something like that yes.

[Assistant] I know we were disappointed, because we liked the golf course. We don’t golf, but it was a nice view. Did you guys know any old-timers or people who actually were from Webster, Seabrook, Kemah? Or was it literally all new people for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] What was interesting, there were rumors that they were going to close the golf course, so they had some kind of a reunion. I remember going to a fancy dinner there. They were closing the golf course. A lot of the original people came to that dinner. Can’t remember when that was.

[Assistant] That might have been around when we purchased our house, because I think it was open for a short time, and they made the decision to close it. We bought in 2003, maybe 2004, 2005.

[User] Something like that yes.

[Assistant] I know we were disappointed, because we liked the golf course. We don’t golf, but it was a nice view. Did you guys know any old-timers or people who actually were from Webster, Seabrook, Kemah? Or was it literally all new people for you?

[User]
Everything was NASA, new people.

All NASA, new people. Gradually there would be like some Exxon people, but most of the time they were all either NASA or contractor.

[Assistant] That’s pretty unusual to have such a brand-new community, I think, in the twentieth century. I kind of think it’s almost like a nineteenth century community in a way, because you guys were building this community almost from the ground up. Everything had to be established by all of you. But at the same time you were united by this one goal, which I think is really interesting.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Something like that yes.

[Assistant] I know we were disappointed, because we liked the golf course. We don’t golf, but it was a nice view. Did you guys know any old-timers or people who actually were from Webster, Seabrook, Kemah? Or was it literally all new people for you?

[User]
Everything was NASA, new people.

All NASA, new people. Gradually there would be like some Exxon people, but most of the time they were all either NASA or contractor.

[Assistant] That’s pretty unusual to have such a brand-new community, I think, in the twentieth century. I kind of think it’s almost like a nineteenth century community in a way, because you guys were building this community almost from the ground up. Everything had to be established by all of you. But at the same time you were united by this one goal, which I think is really interesting.

[User]
The churches—that was another place to connect with people, the church of course. When we moved here, Dick was Lutheran, and so there was House of Prayer Lutheran Church we belonged to.

Which was only block from the house.

As charter member. Yes. Dunkin’ Donuts is where the Lutheran church used to be. We were there five years. Then there were some problems, and we moved to this church now. A lot of our friends, of course, are here at this church.

[Assistant] I was curious about the fact that there were so many families in this area too, because I think that helps to bring together people when you have young children running around. Like-minded people, and comparing my kid is doing this, is your kid doing the same thing. Or just having parties or just getting together to play. Although I think it’s a little different these days. I wonder how that might have contributed to building that community.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Everything was NASA, new people.

All NASA, new people. Gradually there would be like some Exxon people, but most of the time they were all either NASA or contractor.

[Assistant] That’s pretty unusual to have such a brand-new community, I think, in the twentieth century. I kind of think it’s almost like a nineteenth century community in a way, because you guys were building this community almost from the ground up. Everything had to be established by all of you. But at the same time you were united by this one goal, which I think is really interesting.

[User]
The churches—that was another place to connect with people, the church of course. When we moved here, Dick was Lutheran, and so there was House of Prayer Lutheran Church we belonged to.

Which was only block from the house.

As charter member. Yes. Dunkin’ Donuts is where the Lutheran church used to be. We were there five years. Then there were some problems, and we moved to this church now. A lot of our friends, of course, are here at this church.

[Assistant] I was curious about the fact that there were so many families in this area too, because I think that helps to bring together people when you have young children running around. Like-minded people, and comparing my kid is doing this, is your kid doing the same thing. Or just having parties or just getting together to play. Although I think it’s a little different these days. I wonder how that might have contributed to building that community.

[User]
You knew your children’s classmates in school, and we had room mothers, we’d have those connections. There were block mothers that when the kids were walking home from school you had a little sign in the window that you were a block mother, and that sort of thing.

Safety if you had to run, you could run to one of those signs.

That wouldn’t work nowadays.

No.

[Assistant] You were a block mom, right? That’s what Joan mentioned.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
The churches—that was another place to connect with people, the church of course. When we moved here, Dick was Lutheran, and so there was House of Prayer Lutheran Church we belonged to.

Which was only block from the house.

As charter member. Yes. Dunkin’ Donuts is where the Lutheran church used to be. We were there five years. Then there were some problems, and we moved to this church now. A lot of our friends, of course, are here at this church.

[Assistant] I was curious about the fact that there were so many families in this area too, because I think that helps to bring together people when you have young children running around. Like-minded people, and comparing my kid is doing this, is your kid doing the same thing. Or just having parties or just getting together to play. Although I think it’s a little different these days. I wonder how that might have contributed to building that community.

[User]
You knew your children’s classmates in school, and we had room mothers, we’d have those connections. There were block mothers that when the kids were walking home from school you had a little sign in the window that you were a block mother, and that sort of thing.

Safety if you had to run, you could run to one of those signs.

That wouldn’t work nowadays.

No.

[Assistant] You were a block mom, right? That’s what Joan mentioned.

[User] Yes. You knew all the neighborhood kids.

[Assistant] You mentioned that Clear Lake City Elementary had school at the rec center one year.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
You knew your children’s classmates in school, and we had room mothers, we’d have those connections. There were block mothers that when the kids were walking home from school you had a little sign in the window that you were a block mother, and that sort of thing.

Safety if you had to run, you could run to one of those signs.

That wouldn’t work nowadays.

No.

[Assistant] You were a block mom, right? That’s what Joan mentioned.

[User] Yes. You knew all the neighborhood kids.

[Assistant] You mentioned that Clear Lake City Elementary had school at the rec center one year.

[User] One year, yes.

[Assistant] Did they house the kids in the gym? Or was it in some of the—


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. You knew all the neighborhood kids.

[Assistant] You mentioned that Clear Lake City Elementary had school at the rec center one year.

[User] One year, yes.

[Assistant] Did they house the kids in the gym? Or was it in some of the—

[User] Where the office buildings are now. During the day, I don’t know how many grades they had. John was in first grade. Then after school there was a dance school, Jill Rauscher’s dance school. Her mother actually. My daughter started dance there when she was six or seven maybe. Jill is still here in the community. My granddaughter teaches in that school now.

[Assistant] Oh, does she?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] One year, yes.

[Assistant] Did they house the kids in the gym? Or was it in some of the—

[User] Where the office buildings are now. During the day, I don’t know how many grades they had. John was in first grade. Then after school there was a dance school, Jill Rauscher’s dance school. Her mother actually. My daughter started dance there when she was six or seven maybe. Jill is still here in the community. My granddaughter teaches in that school now.

[Assistant] Oh, does she?

[User] Yes, my granddaughter is 21, she’ll be, and she’s one of the instructors at the school.

[Assistant] Houston really became your home.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Where the office buildings are now. During the day, I don’t know how many grades they had. John was in first grade. Then after school there was a dance school, Jill Rauscher’s dance school. Her mother actually. My daughter started dance there when she was six or seven maybe. Jill is still here in the community. My granddaughter teaches in that school now.

[Assistant] Oh, does she?

[User] Yes, my granddaughter is 21, she’ll be, and she’s one of the instructors at the school.

[Assistant] Houston really became your home.

[User]
Oh yes.

Oh yes.

[Assistant] You talked about wanting to be part of a new hometown, and it really did for both of you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, my granddaughter is 21, she’ll be, and she’s one of the instructors at the school.

[Assistant] Houston really became your home.

[User]
Oh yes.

Oh yes.

[Assistant] You talked about wanting to be part of a new hometown, and it really did for both of you.

[User]
We were far enough from Houston proper that we were like a little community. We had the advantages of the big stores downtown but we had the advantage of the neighborhood.

Small town.

Originally after we moved in, one of the things that was always interesting is the cattle would get away from wherever they were fenced off and go walking down the street in front of your house. It was interesting to see the country and the city intermix there.

[Assistant] That is interesting. You would not see that today.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Oh yes.

Oh yes.

[Assistant] You talked about wanting to be part of a new hometown, and it really did for both of you.

[User]
We were far enough from Houston proper that we were like a little community. We had the advantages of the big stores downtown but we had the advantage of the neighborhood.

Small town.

Originally after we moved in, one of the things that was always interesting is the cattle would get away from wherever they were fenced off and go walking down the street in front of your house. It was interesting to see the country and the city intermix there.

[Assistant] That is interesting. You would not see that today.

[User]
No, all kinds of rules and things.

And snakes.

[Assistant] And snakes. Did you guys have a lot of problems with insects? I was curious about that. Was that something you had issues with?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
No, all kinds of rules and things.

And snakes.

[Assistant] And snakes. Did you guys have a lot of problems with insects? I was curious about that. Was that something you had issues with?

[User]
We came from the Midwest, where there are no bugs outside of mosquitoes. One of the first few nights in our house we had a roach problem, and we didn’t know what they were.

One flew off. The little sucker jumped and landed on her.

In my hair.

In the middle of the night.

[Assistant] Oh, yuck.

[User] That was new for us.

[Assistant] I can imagine lots of Raid.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
We came from the Midwest, where there are no bugs outside of mosquitoes. One of the first few nights in our house we had a roach problem, and we didn’t know what they were.

One flew off. The little sucker jumped and landed on her.

In my hair.

In the middle of the night.

[Assistant] Oh, yuck.

[User] That was new for us.

[Assistant] I can imagine lots of Raid.

[User] We never had any trouble with snakes, although we found a dead one every once in a while in the street. They didn’t learn how to cross the street, I guess.

[Assistant] Were you seeing other animals like alligators or skunks?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We never had any trouble with snakes, although we found a dead one every once in a while in the street. They didn’t learn how to cross the street, I guess.

[Assistant] Were you seeing other animals like alligators or skunks?

[User]
There’s an alligator that’s still there. I think he’s still there. The ditch by the golf course.

The kids going to school, most kids walked to school. They’d go over the bridge.

Go over the bridge with the alligator.

That was a concern.

Probably not the smartest thing in the world.

[Assistant] That’s unusual.

[User]
There’s coyotes that roam the present golf course at night still to this day, people that live on the course, and then they got the wild hogs.

That’s further down.

Yes, it’s not where our house was, but it was further towards the other side, that still dig up neighborhood yards.

[Assistant] I did not know that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
There’s an alligator that’s still there. I think he’s still there. The ditch by the golf course.

The kids going to school, most kids walked to school. They’d go over the bridge.

Go over the bridge with the alligator.

That was a concern.

Probably not the smartest thing in the world.

[Assistant] That’s unusual.

[User]
There’s coyotes that roam the present golf course at night still to this day, people that live on the course, and then they got the wild hogs.

That’s further down.

Yes, it’s not where our house was, but it was further towards the other side, that still dig up neighborhood yards.

[Assistant] I did not know that.

[User]
Yes, they still have them.

One day that new shopping center, what is it, HEB?

HEB is up that way.

We were driving up there and a herd of—if they’re herds—about five or six went running across the road. They had been messing around where the houses were right there.

They tear up the landscaping and everything.

[Assistant] Oh, well, that’s good to know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
There’s coyotes that roam the present golf course at night still to this day, people that live on the course, and then they got the wild hogs.

That’s further down.

Yes, it’s not where our house was, but it was further towards the other side, that still dig up neighborhood yards.

[Assistant] I did not know that.

[User]
Yes, they still have them.

One day that new shopping center, what is it, HEB?

HEB is up that way.

We were driving up there and a herd of—if they’re herds—about five or six went running across the road. They had been messing around where the houses were right there.

They tear up the landscaping and everything.

[Assistant] Oh, well, that’s good to know.

[User] That was just five years ago or so.

[Assistant] I would have thought by now most of the wildlife was in another area.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Yes, they still have them.

One day that new shopping center, what is it, HEB?

HEB is up that way.

We were driving up there and a herd of—if they’re herds—about five or six went running across the road. They had been messing around where the houses were right there.

They tear up the landscaping and everything.

[Assistant] Oh, well, that’s good to know.

[User] That was just five years ago or so.

[Assistant] I would have thought by now most of the wildlife was in another area.

[User] I think those hogs are very conducive to reproduction.

[Assistant] I wanted to ask a little bit more about the schools. You volunteered, Betty, in the schools as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was just five years ago or so.

[Assistant] I would have thought by now most of the wildlife was in another area.

[User] I think those hogs are very conducive to reproduction.

[Assistant] I wanted to ask a little bit more about the schools. You volunteered, Betty, in the schools as well?

[User] Yes, in the library.

[Assistant] Do you know was there an emphasis at all on space? Was there any interest in space books or any space programs you recall? Maybe, Dick, did you ever go over to the school and talk about what you were doing at NASA? Or were you too busy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think those hogs are very conducive to reproduction.

[Assistant] I wanted to ask a little bit more about the schools. You volunteered, Betty, in the schools as well?

[User] Yes, in the library.

[Assistant] Do you know was there an emphasis at all on space? Was there any interest in space books or any space programs you recall? Maybe, Dick, did you ever go over to the school and talk about what you were doing at NASA? Or were you too busy?

[User]
I think it was just a cultural thing that everybody knew about it, and so we just sort of—“Oh, your dad is an astronaut, so what.”

Most people knew each other from work.

Families.

One of my bosses was right down the street. I think it was just sort of normal. We worked, we came home, and then we did other stuff.

[Assistant] So no big deal for folks. No differentiation for the kids between I’m an astronaut kid while your dad is an engineer.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, in the library.

[Assistant] Do you know was there an emphasis at all on space? Was there any interest in space books or any space programs you recall? Maybe, Dick, did you ever go over to the school and talk about what you were doing at NASA? Or were you too busy?

[User]
I think it was just a cultural thing that everybody knew about it, and so we just sort of—“Oh, your dad is an astronaut, so what.”

Most people knew each other from work.

Families.

One of my bosses was right down the street. I think it was just sort of normal. We worked, we came home, and then we did other stuff.

[Assistant] So no big deal for folks. No differentiation for the kids between I’m an astronaut kid while your dad is an engineer.

[User]
I don’t think so.

I don’t think so. I was in a bridge club for a while, and two of the ladies were astronauts’ wives, two or three of them I remember. But then I got tired of bridge so I dropped out.

[Assistant] I was going to ask about that, because that seems to be a popular card game. People don’t really play bridge anymore. But back then I think people did a lot more.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
I think it was just a cultural thing that everybody knew about it, and so we just sort of—“Oh, your dad is an astronaut, so what.”

Most people knew each other from work.

Families.

One of my bosses was right down the street. I think it was just sort of normal. We worked, we came home, and then we did other stuff.

[Assistant] So no big deal for folks. No differentiation for the kids between I’m an astronaut kid while your dad is an engineer.

[User]
I don’t think so.

I don’t think so. I was in a bridge club for a while, and two of the ladies were astronauts’ wives, two or three of them I remember. But then I got tired of bridge so I dropped out.

[Assistant] I was going to ask about that, because that seems to be a popular card game. People don’t really play bridge anymore. But back then I think people did a lot more.

[User] Yes. At the Crossings they have some big bridge players there, where we live now, because they’re all our age. We have a cardroom.

[Assistant] Oh, you have a cardroom?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
I don’t think so.

I don’t think so. I was in a bridge club for a while, and two of the ladies were astronauts’ wives, two or three of them I remember. But then I got tired of bridge so I dropped out.

[Assistant] I was going to ask about that, because that seems to be a popular card game. People don’t really play bridge anymore. But back then I think people did a lot more.

[User] Yes. At the Crossings they have some big bridge players there, where we live now, because they’re all our age. We have a cardroom.

[Assistant] Oh, you have a cardroom?

[User]
Yes.

There’s a lot of sheepshead players out in Rockwell Downey, they used to have sheepshead games out there. That’s a card game.

That’s a Midwestern card game.

It’s a German card game. One of the contractors that was supporting Rockwell International was AC Electronics, is that what they’re called?

Yes.

They were from Milwaukee.

That’s where he was from.

Where we grew up, or I grew up.

Where he grew up, yes.

We got together whenever I was out there and played cards in the evening.

[Assistant] Did they ever bring you anything from the Midwest? My in-laws and my husband is originally from Wisconsin.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. At the Crossings they have some big bridge players there, where we live now, because they’re all our age. We have a cardroom.

[Assistant] Oh, you have a cardroom?

[User]
Yes.

There’s a lot of sheepshead players out in Rockwell Downey, they used to have sheepshead games out there. That’s a card game.

That’s a Midwestern card game.

It’s a German card game. One of the contractors that was supporting Rockwell International was AC Electronics, is that what they’re called?

Yes.

They were from Milwaukee.

That’s where he was from.

Where we grew up, or I grew up.

Where he grew up, yes.

We got together whenever I was out there and played cards in the evening.

[Assistant] Did they ever bring you anything from the Midwest? My in-laws and my husband is originally from Wisconsin.

[User]
Oh.

Oh, really.

[Assistant] Yes. I’m trying to think of the dessert. There’s a dessert out there they stock up on. [A kringle].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Yes.

There’s a lot of sheepshead players out in Rockwell Downey, they used to have sheepshead games out there. That’s a card game.

That’s a Midwestern card game.

It’s a German card game. One of the contractors that was supporting Rockwell International was AC Electronics, is that what they’re called?

Yes.

They were from Milwaukee.

That’s where he was from.

Where we grew up, or I grew up.

Where he grew up, yes.

We got together whenever I was out there and played cards in the evening.

[Assistant] Did they ever bring you anything from the Midwest? My in-laws and my husband is originally from Wisconsin.

[User]
Oh.

Oh, really.

[Assistant] Yes. I’m trying to think of the dessert. There’s a dessert out there they stock up on. [A kringle].

[User]
Sounds German or something.

Sounds German.

I grew up in a Norwegian house with all Norwegian stuff.

He’s Norwegian.

Mine was all Norwegian.

[Assistant] Did they bring you anything?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Oh.

Oh, really.

[Assistant] Yes. I’m trying to think of the dessert. There’s a dessert out there they stock up on. [A kringle].

[User]
Sounds German or something.

Sounds German.

I grew up in a Norwegian house with all Norwegian stuff.

He’s Norwegian.

Mine was all Norwegian.

[Assistant] Did they bring you anything?

[User]
Lutefisk.

No, that’s another thing.

[Assistant] Doesn’t sound like Betty liked that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Sounds German or something.

Sounds German.

I grew up in a Norwegian house with all Norwegian stuff.

He’s Norwegian.

Mine was all Norwegian.

[Assistant] Did they bring you anything?

[User]
Lutefisk.

No, that’s another thing.

[Assistant] Doesn’t sound like Betty liked that.

[User] No, it’s terrible.

[Assistant] I wanted to ask about childcare because even in your history you talk about how it was a real issue even for the church because there were so many kids that the church wasn’t necessarily equipped to handle it. How did the moms handle it in a day and age when day care really wasn’t a thing? Did you rely on all the other mothers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Lutefisk.

No, that’s another thing.

[Assistant] Doesn’t sound like Betty liked that.

[User] No, it’s terrible.

[Assistant] I wanted to ask about childcare because even in your history you talk about how it was a real issue even for the church because there were so many kids that the church wasn’t necessarily equipped to handle it. How did the moms handle it in a day and age when day care really wasn’t a thing? Did you rely on all the other mothers?

[User] Number one is not as many mothers were working. Most moms were home. Then slowly, like my mom that moved here, slowly their parents would come down here and retire. In the church, like I wrote about in the history, that’s how Mother’s Day Out started, because other mothers would help other mothers.

[Assistant] Was that something that you were involved in? You were a newer member at that point, but was that something that you joined in on?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it’s terrible.

[Assistant] I wanted to ask about childcare because even in your history you talk about how it was a real issue even for the church because there were so many kids that the church wasn’t necessarily equipped to handle it. How did the moms handle it in a day and age when day care really wasn’t a thing? Did you rely on all the other mothers?

[User] Number one is not as many mothers were working. Most moms were home. Then slowly, like my mom that moved here, slowly their parents would come down here and retire. In the church, like I wrote about in the history, that’s how Mother’s Day Out started, because other mothers would help other mothers.

[Assistant] Was that something that you were involved in? You were a newer member at that point, but was that something that you joined in on?

[User] Yes. As our kids got a little bit older, as teenagers, then they got involved in the Mother’s Day Out program, which was childcare. There weren’t any commercial childcare places. There weren’t any. You either shared with your friends or your church.

[Assistant] It’s a complication, if you need to go somewhere and really need help.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Number one is not as many mothers were working. Most moms were home. Then slowly, like my mom that moved here, slowly their parents would come down here and retire. In the church, like I wrote about in the history, that’s how Mother’s Day Out started, because other mothers would help other mothers.

[Assistant] Was that something that you were involved in? You were a newer member at that point, but was that something that you joined in on?

[User] Yes. As our kids got a little bit older, as teenagers, then they got involved in the Mother’s Day Out program, which was childcare. There weren’t any commercial childcare places. There weren’t any. You either shared with your friends or your church.

[Assistant] It’s a complication, if you need to go somewhere and really need help.

[User]
Yes. If you had a doctor’s appointment, or somebody gets sick or something.

There weren’t too many doctors around either.

No.

[Assistant] How did you find out who to go to? If you were all new, how did you figure out who was the best person? Did you have any options in the area?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. As our kids got a little bit older, as teenagers, then they got involved in the Mother’s Day Out program, which was childcare. There weren’t any commercial childcare places. There weren’t any. You either shared with your friends or your church.

[Assistant] It’s a complication, if you need to go somewhere and really need help.

[User]
Yes. If you had a doctor’s appointment, or somebody gets sick or something.

There weren’t too many doctors around either.

No.

[Assistant] How did you find out who to go to? If you were all new, how did you figure out who was the best person? Did you have any options in the area?

[User]
Not too many options.

One.

Clear Creek Clinic in League City had three or four doctors. We stayed with them till this past year. Things changed in the practice.

We didn’t have any hospitals in the area.

No hospitals, no. You had to go into Houston if you were seriously ill. You had to go to Houston.

[Assistant] Did you ever go down to Galveston for medical care? Or primarily you just went up into Houston?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Yes. If you had a doctor’s appointment, or somebody gets sick or something.

There weren’t too many doctors around either.

No.

[Assistant] How did you find out who to go to? If you were all new, how did you figure out who was the best person? Did you have any options in the area?

[User]
Not too many options.

One.

Clear Creek Clinic in League City had three or four doctors. We stayed with them till this past year. Things changed in the practice.

We didn’t have any hospitals in the area.

No hospitals, no. You had to go into Houston if you were seriously ill. You had to go to Houston.

[Assistant] Did you ever go down to Galveston for medical care? Or primarily you just went up into Houston?

[User]
I don’t think we ever went down there.

I don’t think we did.

NASA had their own set of doctors, so the employees got yearly physicals.

But not the families.

Not the families. But the doctors used you as guinea pigs. We were on treadmills just like a chipmunk or something with masks on and all that stuff.

[Assistant] Oh, that’s fascinating.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Not too many options.

One.

Clear Creek Clinic in League City had three or four doctors. We stayed with them till this past year. Things changed in the practice.

We didn’t have any hospitals in the area.

No hospitals, no. You had to go into Houston if you were seriously ill. You had to go to Houston.

[Assistant] Did you ever go down to Galveston for medical care? Or primarily you just went up into Houston?

[User]
I don’t think we ever went down there.

I don’t think we did.

NASA had their own set of doctors, so the employees got yearly physicals.

But not the families.

Not the families. But the doctors used you as guinea pigs. We were on treadmills just like a chipmunk or something with masks on and all that stuff.

[Assistant] Oh, that’s fascinating.

[User] I guess we were the base[line] for astronauts later on.

[Assistant] The baseline, oh, that’s funny. That’s a nice perk for being a civil servant, that you have that access to that medical care.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
I don’t think we ever went down there.

I don’t think we did.

NASA had their own set of doctors, so the employees got yearly physicals.

But not the families.

Not the families. But the doctors used you as guinea pigs. We were on treadmills just like a chipmunk or something with masks on and all that stuff.

[Assistant] Oh, that’s fascinating.

[User] I guess we were the base[line] for astronauts later on.

[Assistant] The baseline, oh, that’s funny. That’s a nice perk for being a civil servant, that you have that access to that medical care.

[User] Matter of fact, Joan was helping. She was doing that at NASA. I’m sure she told you. She took blood from me many times.

[Assistant] They’ve got your data? I wanted to ask you about neighborhood traditions. I’ve heard in Timber Cove for Apollo 8 they started putting out the luminaries, and they do a few other things. Were there any traditions in Oakbrook around the space program, or maybe just holidays like Fourth of July or Christmas, Thanksgiving? I think Joan mentioned some parades that you guys would have.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I guess we were the base[line] for astronauts later on.

[Assistant] The baseline, oh, that’s funny. That’s a nice perk for being a civil servant, that you have that access to that medical care.

[User] Matter of fact, Joan was helping. She was doing that at NASA. I’m sure she told you. She took blood from me many times.

[Assistant] They’ve got your data? I wanted to ask you about neighborhood traditions. I’ve heard in Timber Cove for Apollo 8 they started putting out the luminaries, and they do a few other things. Were there any traditions in Oakbrook around the space program, or maybe just holidays like Fourth of July or Christmas, Thanksgiving? I think Joan mentioned some parades that you guys would have.

[User]
Oh yes, I think that was around—I don’t know what the occasion was. Yes, they had some small neighborhood parades, and our granddaughter was on the float, stuff like that.

We used to have block parties that the police would let us.

There’s one neighborhood over where Hal [Harold A.] Loden lives. They had a lot of traditions on Bowline, I remember. You might want to talk to him too. Hal Loden. He is a member here, a charter member of this church.

He was a flight controller. Different viewpoint than engineers.

[Assistant] Oh, absolutely, yes, I like talking to different people, because people have different memories of what things were like and different experiences as well. Did you guys ever see any tour buses in your area? I know that there were some that came down. They were looking for astronaut homes. My understanding, there were a few astronauts who lived in Clear Lake.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
I don’t remember any tour buses.

No.

We were on a one-block street, so that wouldn’t be a major traffic route at all.

I’m not sure if we had any neighbors that were astronauts in Oakbrook. I don’t think so. The early astronauts came at a time when they’d move into Timber Cove or some of those neighborhoods over there, so I don’t think we had any in our neighborhood.

I don’t remember.

[Assistant] I think I had seen in a few of the newsletters. Unfortunately didn’t keep a complete set. It’s just a few in there. They mentioned a few of the astronauts were—can’t remember the names. They probably came like in ’66 or somewhere back there. They probably weren’t flying much in Apollo. I wanted to ask you, Dick, if you had a chance to be active in the community much at all in the ’60s. Did you join any groups? Or did you help your kids with sport leagues or Scouts, anything like that?

[User]
No. I had an awful lot of travel, so travel and church here. I didn’t do anything.

John was an Indian Guide for a while, and he did that for a while.

Yes, we did Indian Guides.

I did Girl Scouts.

We camped a couple times.

Indian Guides was for sons and fathers only. I don’t think they exist anymore.

Probably not.

[Assistant] I’ve never heard of it.

[User] They were like a Scout kind of thing, but the emphasis was father-son. I did Brownies and Girl Scouts with my daughter.

[Assistant] Were you a troop leader?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
No. I had an awful lot of travel, so travel and church here. I didn’t do anything.

John was an Indian Guide for a while, and he did that for a while.

Yes, we did Indian Guides.

I did Girl Scouts.

We camped a couple times.

Indian Guides was for sons and fathers only. I don’t think they exist anymore.

Probably not.

[Assistant] I’ve never heard of it.

[User] They were like a Scout kind of thing, but the emphasis was father-son. I did Brownies and Girl Scouts with my daughter.

[Assistant] Were you a troop leader?

[User] I was a Brownie leader.

[Assistant] That’s nice that you were able to do that. Were you active in the Clear Lake Women’s Society of Christian Service? I’ve read about that in your history as well.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were like a Scout kind of thing, but the emphasis was father-son. I did Brownies and Girl Scouts with my daughter.

[Assistant] Were you a troop leader?

[User] I was a Brownie leader.

[Assistant] That’s nice that you were able to do that. Were you active in the Clear Lake Women’s Society of Christian Service? I’ve read about that in your history as well.

[User] Yes. It’s now United Methodist Women. Yes, I was real active.

[Assistant] Would you talk about the work that you did? I know you joined a little later. Would you talk about some of the volunteer work that you did during the ’60s?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was a Brownie leader.

[Assistant] That’s nice that you were able to do that. Were you active in the Clear Lake Women’s Society of Christian Service? I’ve read about that in your history as well.

[User] Yes. It’s now United Methodist Women. Yes, I was real active.

[Assistant] Would you talk about the work that you did? I know you joined a little later. Would you talk about some of the volunteer work that you did during the ’60s?

[User]
When we moved to this church I started the library. The Brownie troop met here, and I was room mother for many years at school. Then when both of the granddaughters started school, I was a room mother for both of them as well. They don’t do much of that anymore, I don’t think, where they have parties in a classroom and that sort of thing.

What about the library? Did you get in the school library? I did later on.

Yes, we both volunteered in the Clear Lake Elementary School library. Did story time and that sort of thing.

[Assistant] I was curious about the teachers at Clear Lake City Elementary. Were they primarily wives of people who worked at NASA? Do you recall? It seems like so many people have those ties.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. It’s now United Methodist Women. Yes, I was real active.

[Assistant] Would you talk about the work that you did? I know you joined a little later. Would you talk about some of the volunteer work that you did during the ’60s?

[User]
When we moved to this church I started the library. The Brownie troop met here, and I was room mother for many years at school. Then when both of the granddaughters started school, I was a room mother for both of them as well. They don’t do much of that anymore, I don’t think, where they have parties in a classroom and that sort of thing.

What about the library? Did you get in the school library? I did later on.

Yes, we both volunteered in the Clear Lake Elementary School library. Did story time and that sort of thing.

[Assistant] I was curious about the teachers at Clear Lake City Elementary. Were they primarily wives of people who worked at NASA? Do you recall? It seems like so many people have those ties.

[User]
I don’t remember wives. Clear Creek School District is pretty big.

Yes, it was well established in League City and that area. I don’t remember.

Can’t think of any.

They had some really good teachers.

[Assistant] What did you guys think of the educational system when you got here? Were you happy with it? Was it comparable to what you had in Virginia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
When we moved to this church I started the library. The Brownie troop met here, and I was room mother for many years at school. Then when both of the granddaughters started school, I was a room mother for both of them as well. They don’t do much of that anymore, I don’t think, where they have parties in a classroom and that sort of thing.

What about the library? Did you get in the school library? I did later on.

Yes, we both volunteered in the Clear Lake Elementary School library. Did story time and that sort of thing.

[Assistant] I was curious about the teachers at Clear Lake City Elementary. Were they primarily wives of people who worked at NASA? Do you recall? It seems like so many people have those ties.

[User]
I don’t remember wives. Clear Creek School District is pretty big.

Yes, it was well established in League City and that area. I don’t remember.

Can’t think of any.

They had some really good teachers.

[Assistant] What did you guys think of the educational system when you got here? Were you happy with it? Was it comparable to what you had in Virginia?

[User] It was better. John just went to one year of school in Virginia, but the school system here was more advanced. I think coming from educated parents, it was a different level of what they expected from schools.

[Assistant] You mentioned you went to the House of Prayer, because Dick, you’re Lutheran, or you were Lutheran, now you’re Methodist. What attracted you to the church besides the fact that you were Lutheran?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
I don’t remember wives. Clear Creek School District is pretty big.

Yes, it was well established in League City and that area. I don’t remember.

Can’t think of any.

They had some really good teachers.

[Assistant] What did you guys think of the educational system when you got here? Were you happy with it? Was it comparable to what you had in Virginia?

[User] It was better. John just went to one year of school in Virginia, but the school system here was more advanced. I think coming from educated parents, it was a different level of what they expected from schools.

[Assistant] You mentioned you went to the House of Prayer, because Dick, you’re Lutheran, or you were Lutheran, now you’re Methodist. What attracted you to the church besides the fact that you were Lutheran?

[User]
It was only one block away from the house.

At that time the ministers would come to your home and visit with you. It was different than now.

The minister lived one block away.

One block over, yes. They were a pretty close community.

Of course a large percentage of the people in the church were—

From somewhere else.

Came from somewhere else and were with the same program we were with. That helped.

[Assistant] What attracted you to the Clear Lake United Methodist Church?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
It was only one block away from the house.

At that time the ministers would come to your home and visit with you. It was different than now.

The minister lived one block away.

One block over, yes. They were a pretty close community.

Of course a large percentage of the people in the church were—

From somewhere else.

Came from somewhere else and were with the same program we were with. That helped.

[Assistant] What attracted you to the Clear Lake United Methodist Church?

[User]
The Lutheran church was having some serious problems with leadership, and we kept hearing our neighbors behind us and next door, that there was a good youth program here. We thought this was where we wanted to bring our family, because of the children’s programs and youth program.

The Lutheran church, that particular church, was struggling at that point. Its minister had walked off, so they had some problems.

We don’t need to get into that.

[Assistant] It’s fine.

[User]
The new church gave us a new start, and gave her a library to start.

We got really involved. He ran the sound system and [became] head usher and that sort of thing.

Head usher and all that. That’s gone on for a long time.

[Assistant] I wonder if you can talk about how the space program, Apollo, NASA, what have you impacted the churches, in what ways.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
The Lutheran church was having some serious problems with leadership, and we kept hearing our neighbors behind us and next door, that there was a good youth program here. We thought this was where we wanted to bring our family, because of the children’s programs and youth program.

The Lutheran church, that particular church, was struggling at that point. Its minister had walked off, so they had some problems.

We don’t need to get into that.

[Assistant] It’s fine.

[User]
The new church gave us a new start, and gave her a library to start.

We got really involved. He ran the sound system and [became] head usher and that sort of thing.

Head usher and all that. That’s gone on for a long time.

[Assistant] I wonder if you can talk about how the space program, Apollo, NASA, what have you impacted the churches, in what ways.

[User]
Churches wouldn’t be here without it. The whole foundation is NASA people I think. We’ve gotten, of course, diversified over the years. I think the soul if you will of the church was NASA.

That brought a whole flock of pretty highly educated folks in. It’s not a country church. It’s a fairly highly educated church.

[Higher] expectations too.

[Assistant] Can you expand on what you mean by that, Dick? Having these highly educated folks come in. What impact does that have on the church compared to more of a rural [church].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
The new church gave us a new start, and gave her a library to start.

We got really involved. He ran the sound system and [became] head usher and that sort of thing.

Head usher and all that. That’s gone on for a long time.

[Assistant] I wonder if you can talk about how the space program, Apollo, NASA, what have you impacted the churches, in what ways.

[User]
Churches wouldn’t be here without it. The whole foundation is NASA people I think. We’ve gotten, of course, diversified over the years. I think the soul if you will of the church was NASA.

That brought a whole flock of pretty highly educated folks in. It’s not a country church. It’s a fairly highly educated church.

[Higher] expectations too.

[Assistant] Can you expand on what you mean by that, Dick? Having these highly educated folks come in. What impact does that have on the church compared to more of a rural [church].

[User] I think they probably question the church, make the church explain things better. Like the group that was meeting over here, they get together. There’s a lot of ex-NASA people there. They had a common core. They travel periodically to different places together, more fellowship. That was something that a lot of people had in common.

[Assistant] There were a lot of joyous times in the ’60s, a lot of firsts for the space program: first rendezvous, docking, first lunar landing. I wonder if you would talk about the role the churches played in some of those events, if anything really stands out to you in terms of how things might have been celebrated or just captured within the church.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Churches wouldn’t be here without it. The whole foundation is NASA people I think. We’ve gotten, of course, diversified over the years. I think the soul if you will of the church was NASA.

That brought a whole flock of pretty highly educated folks in. It’s not a country church. It’s a fairly highly educated church.

[Higher] expectations too.

[Assistant] Can you expand on what you mean by that, Dick? Having these highly educated folks come in. What impact does that have on the church compared to more of a rural [church].

[User] I think they probably question the church, make the church explain things better. Like the group that was meeting over here, they get together. There’s a lot of ex-NASA people there. They had a common core. They travel periodically to different places together, more fellowship. That was something that a lot of people had in common.

[Assistant] There were a lot of joyous times in the ’60s, a lot of firsts for the space program: first rendezvous, docking, first lunar landing. I wonder if you would talk about the role the churches played in some of those events, if anything really stands out to you in terms of how things might have been celebrated or just captured within the church.

[User]
I think we showed you the memorabilia we had out here the last time. I think the church is so different now because it’s so broad. Way back then almost everyone was part of NASA or a contractor. It was like a college fellowship type thing.

When things went bad we also pulled together. When the accidents happened. We had one of the services here for one of the astronauts that died.

That was an interesting one. I was head usher at the time and sound guy. We were planning how we were going to do this. NASA security came and they said that it’s going to be very difficult to control things, who’s coming and all that.

Securitywise.

We never thought of that.

[Assistant] Do you recall which event that was for?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think they probably question the church, make the church explain things better. Like the group that was meeting over here, they get together. There’s a lot of ex-NASA people there. They had a common core. They travel periodically to different places together, more fellowship. That was something that a lot of people had in common.

[Assistant] There were a lot of joyous times in the ’60s, a lot of firsts for the space program: first rendezvous, docking, first lunar landing. I wonder if you would talk about the role the churches played in some of those events, if anything really stands out to you in terms of how things might have been celebrated or just captured within the church.

[User]
I think we showed you the memorabilia we had out here the last time. I think the church is so different now because it’s so broad. Way back then almost everyone was part of NASA or a contractor. It was like a college fellowship type thing.

When things went bad we also pulled together. When the accidents happened. We had one of the services here for one of the astronauts that died.

That was an interesting one. I was head usher at the time and sound guy. We were planning how we were going to do this. NASA security came and they said that it’s going to be very difficult to control things, who’s coming and all that.

Securitywise.

We never thought of that.

[Assistant] Do you recall which event that was for?

[User] Mike. Gosh. Can’t think of his name now.

[Assistant] Was it from STS-107? Or was it Challenger? Mike [Michael J.] Smith?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mike. Gosh. Can’t think of his name now.

[Assistant] Was it from STS-107? Or was it Challenger? Mike [Michael J.] Smith?

[User]
The first one.

Challenger.

Challenger, was it? Or was it the second one?

I’m not too sure whether the astronaut that was being—

Mike.

—buried was actually from our church or we were just the biggest church in the area that had space.

But his son was in MYF [Methodist Youth Fellowship] though. That’s what their connection was.

That’s true. But they ended up canceling it anyway, didn’t they?

We had a service for this guy, because I have a recording of it.

Somehow they downplayed it so we wouldn’t have a flock of people.

And the press, I can remember.

Press was obnoxious sometimes.

They’d find out that somebody in your church is—something’s happened. They just descend and they just really destroy privacy. We had a string of teen suicides in Clear Lake. A number of the funerals were here, and the press was awful.

[Assistant] That was one of my questions for you, because you did have a couple of astronauts that were on pretty important missions. The first was Al [Alan L.] Bean, who was a charter member here. By then you both were members, I believe. I was wondering what was the media attention like. Do you remember the media coming to service or talking to members about Al Bean?

[User]
Fred [W.] Haise. I don’t think we were that involved in the church yet. We were kind of not quite involved right away. Fred Haise was one of the early ones.

I do not remember ever having a mob of photographer press in the church service. That might be one, if you talk to Hal Loden, he might know a little bit about that.

[Assistant] I was just curious. The church and the press, it doesn’t seem like it meshes very well.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
The first one.

Challenger.

Challenger, was it? Or was it the second one?

I’m not too sure whether the astronaut that was being—

Mike.

—buried was actually from our church or we were just the biggest church in the area that had space.

But his son was in MYF [Methodist Youth Fellowship] though. That’s what their connection was.

That’s true. But they ended up canceling it anyway, didn’t they?

We had a service for this guy, because I have a recording of it.

Somehow they downplayed it so we wouldn’t have a flock of people.

And the press, I can remember.

Press was obnoxious sometimes.

They’d find out that somebody in your church is—something’s happened. They just descend and they just really destroy privacy. We had a string of teen suicides in Clear Lake. A number of the funerals were here, and the press was awful.

[Assistant] That was one of my questions for you, because you did have a couple of astronauts that were on pretty important missions. The first was Al [Alan L.] Bean, who was a charter member here. By then you both were members, I believe. I was wondering what was the media attention like. Do you remember the media coming to service or talking to members about Al Bean?

[User]
Fred [W.] Haise. I don’t think we were that involved in the church yet. We were kind of not quite involved right away. Fred Haise was one of the early ones.

I do not remember ever having a mob of photographer press in the church service. That might be one, if you talk to Hal Loden, he might know a little bit about that.

[Assistant] I was just curious. The church and the press, it doesn’t seem like it meshes very well.

[User] It does not.

[Assistant] The sanctuary and things like that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Fred [W.] Haise. I don’t think we were that involved in the church yet. We were kind of not quite involved right away. Fred Haise was one of the early ones.

I do not remember ever having a mob of photographer press in the church service. That might be one, if you talk to Hal Loden, he might know a little bit about that.

[Assistant] I was just curious. The church and the press, it doesn’t seem like it meshes very well.

[User] It does not.

[Assistant] The sanctuary and things like that.

[User] Because when you’re having a funeral it should be a personal worship time and not flashbulbs.

[Assistant] Right, but I can almost see the media showing up. The Webster Presbyterian Church talked about how when they were having Lunar Communion, for instance, the media just showed up and they were there. I can’t imagine how distracting that must have been for the congregation, for that special moment, to have media there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It does not.

[Assistant] The sanctuary and things like that.

[User] Because when you’re having a funeral it should be a personal worship time and not flashbulbs.

[Assistant] Right, but I can almost see the media showing up. The Webster Presbyterian Church talked about how when they were having Lunar Communion, for instance, the media just showed up and they were there. I can’t imagine how distracting that must have been for the congregation, for that special moment, to have media there.

[User] Yes. Private moment.

[Assistant] I wanted to ask you about your memories of the Apollo 1 fire and the impact that it had on the community here.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because when you’re having a funeral it should be a personal worship time and not flashbulbs.

[Assistant] Right, but I can almost see the media showing up. The Webster Presbyterian Church talked about how when they were having Lunar Communion, for instance, the media just showed up and they were there. I can’t imagine how distracting that must have been for the congregation, for that special moment, to have media there.

[User] Yes. Private moment.

[Assistant] I wanted to ask you about your memories of the Apollo 1 fire and the impact that it had on the community here.

[User]
That was emotional.

Yes. I think the engineers took it very personal, because they feel like what could we have done better. The same thing for the other two accidents too. It really hit hard. I remember we were in a staff meeting when the last accident happened. Benita Bridges called me and she said, “Something terrible has happened,” Roy Bridges’s wife. He was one of the astronauts. She worked with me in the library. It was very personal.

The Cape [Kennedy, Florida], for the fire, we had a closed-door meeting, and they played the tapes of the sound of what was going on. It was horrible.

[Assistant] That must have been. Did you help with the investigation?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Private moment.

[Assistant] I wanted to ask you about your memories of the Apollo 1 fire and the impact that it had on the community here.

[User]
That was emotional.

Yes. I think the engineers took it very personal, because they feel like what could we have done better. The same thing for the other two accidents too. It really hit hard. I remember we were in a staff meeting when the last accident happened. Benita Bridges called me and she said, “Something terrible has happened,” Roy Bridges’s wife. He was one of the astronauts. She worked with me in the library. It was very personal.

The Cape [Kennedy, Florida], for the fire, we had a closed-door meeting, and they played the tapes of the sound of what was going on. It was horrible.

[Assistant] That must have been. Did you help with the investigation?

[User] No. I think they knew what it was rather quickly, so it wasn’t anything that I had worked on, so no.

[Assistant] What impact do you think it had on the community here in Clear Lake, this community that was so focused on Apollo and getting to the Moon?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
That was emotional.

Yes. I think the engineers took it very personal, because they feel like what could we have done better. The same thing for the other two accidents too. It really hit hard. I remember we were in a staff meeting when the last accident happened. Benita Bridges called me and she said, “Something terrible has happened,” Roy Bridges’s wife. He was one of the astronauts. She worked with me in the library. It was very personal.

The Cape [Kennedy, Florida], for the fire, we had a closed-door meeting, and they played the tapes of the sound of what was going on. It was horrible.

[Assistant] That must have been. Did you help with the investigation?

[User] No. I think they knew what it was rather quickly, so it wasn’t anything that I had worked on, so no.

[Assistant] What impact do you think it had on the community here in Clear Lake, this community that was so focused on Apollo and getting to the Moon?

[User]
I think it was a wakeup call in a way because everything had been working along smoothly, and suddenly this happens, and I think it awakened people that that’s not particularly a safe job.

On a human level, you get so involved in engineering, this kind of mindset, but then when you see it, it’s a human level, that someone has died. You realize the responsibility you have.

Even like the other accidents that were caused by ice coming off of parts, causing damage, even though they weren’t anything you worked on or were responsible for, it was still devastating.

[Assistant] I can imagine. Like Betty said, being an engineer especially.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. I think they knew what it was rather quickly, so it wasn’t anything that I had worked on, so no.

[Assistant] What impact do you think it had on the community here in Clear Lake, this community that was so focused on Apollo and getting to the Moon?

[User]
I think it was a wakeup call in a way because everything had been working along smoothly, and suddenly this happens, and I think it awakened people that that’s not particularly a safe job.

On a human level, you get so involved in engineering, this kind of mindset, but then when you see it, it’s a human level, that someone has died. You realize the responsibility you have.

Even like the other accidents that were caused by ice coming off of parts, causing damage, even though they weren’t anything you worked on or were responsible for, it was still devastating.

[Assistant] I can imagine. Like Betty said, being an engineer especially.

[User] Yes. “What if I’d done this? What if I’d done that?”

[Assistant] Did you know the crew at all? Had you worked with [Roger B.] Chaffee or Gus [Virgil I. Grissom]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
I think it was a wakeup call in a way because everything had been working along smoothly, and suddenly this happens, and I think it awakened people that that’s not particularly a safe job.

On a human level, you get so involved in engineering, this kind of mindset, but then when you see it, it’s a human level, that someone has died. You realize the responsibility you have.

Even like the other accidents that were caused by ice coming off of parts, causing damage, even though they weren’t anything you worked on or were responsible for, it was still devastating.

[Assistant] I can imagine. Like Betty said, being an engineer especially.

[User] Yes. “What if I’d done this? What if I’d done that?”

[Assistant] Did you know the crew at all? Had you worked with [Roger B.] Chaffee or Gus [Virgil I. Grissom]?

[User] Yes. For a while there a group of the astronauts were surveying different places and different technologies, and I was involved with that. I would travel on a little company puddle jumper, and they would fly their jets in. We would visit whatever company it was. San Diego and LA and stuff like that.\n\n The astronauts would fly in their planes, and they’d come in with their jumpsuits on. They were like rock stars walking through the place, and we’d just sort of follow along. It was neat. When we decided to go to the glass cockpit where you put a CRT in front of them.

[Assistant] Those are beautiful.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. “What if I’d done this? What if I’d done that?”

[Assistant] Did you know the crew at all? Had you worked with [Roger B.] Chaffee or Gus [Virgil I. Grissom]?

[User] Yes. For a while there a group of the astronauts were surveying different places and different technologies, and I was involved with that. I would travel on a little company puddle jumper, and they would fly their jets in. We would visit whatever company it was. San Diego and LA and stuff like that.\n\n The astronauts would fly in their planes, and they’d come in with their jumpsuits on. They were like rock stars walking through the place, and we’d just sort of follow along. It was neat. When we decided to go to the glass cockpit where you put a CRT in front of them.

[Assistant] Those are beautiful.

[User] That wasn’t an easy thing to do because there was the people who didn’t like the term, were afraid that the press would be crazy enough to push where people would think it’s just glass, it’s going to break. I had a lot to do with getting that involved. I went to a congressional committee to get the money to change the cockpit. We eventually could not call it glass cockpit, and we came up with another name for it: multifunction electronic display subsystem.

[Assistant] Because that rolls off the tongue so much easier.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. For a while there a group of the astronauts were surveying different places and different technologies, and I was involved with that. I would travel on a little company puddle jumper, and they would fly their jets in. We would visit whatever company it was. San Diego and LA and stuff like that.\n\n The astronauts would fly in their planes, and they’d come in with their jumpsuits on. They were like rock stars walking through the place, and we’d just sort of follow along. It was neat. When we decided to go to the glass cockpit where you put a CRT in front of them.

[Assistant] Those are beautiful.

[User] That wasn’t an easy thing to do because there was the people who didn’t like the term, were afraid that the press would be crazy enough to push where people would think it’s just glass, it’s going to break. I had a lot to do with getting that involved. I went to a congressional committee to get the money to change the cockpit. We eventually could not call it glass cockpit, and we came up with another name for it: multifunction electronic display subsystem.

[Assistant] Because that rolls off the tongue so much easier.

[User] That made the congressional committee happy, they didn’t like the other terms. The astronauts by then were flying jets that had them in there.

[Assistant] Right, they were used to them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That wasn’t an easy thing to do because there was the people who didn’t like the term, were afraid that the press would be crazy enough to push where people would think it’s just glass, it’s going to break. I had a lot to do with getting that involved. I went to a congressional committee to get the money to change the cockpit. We eventually could not call it glass cockpit, and we came up with another name for it: multifunction electronic display subsystem.

[Assistant] Because that rolls off the tongue so much easier.

[User] That made the congressional committee happy, they didn’t like the other terms. The astronauts by then were flying jets that had them in there.

[Assistant] Right, they were used to them.

[User] They were used to them, and it sure did help.

[Assistant] We have this interview from the ’60s with a guy from procurement, and he talks about how really there was space fever going on here in the city of Houston. How people wanted autographs from even him. He was a procurement guy. He showed up to some Halloween party, and somebody wanted an autograph from him. He was really embarrassed, because he’s not an astronaut. I wondered, did you ever encounter that, Dick? Were people enamored of you because you worked at NASA either here in Houston or wherever you were traveling?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That made the congressional committee happy, they didn’t like the other terms. The astronauts by then were flying jets that had them in there.

[Assistant] Right, they were used to them.

[User] They were used to them, and it sure did help.

[Assistant] We have this interview from the ’60s with a guy from procurement, and he talks about how really there was space fever going on here in the city of Houston. How people wanted autographs from even him. He was a procurement guy. He showed up to some Halloween party, and somebody wanted an autograph from him. He was really embarrassed, because he’s not an astronaut. I wondered, did you ever encounter that, Dick? Were people enamored of you because you worked at NASA either here in Houston or wherever you were traveling?

[User]
It’s interesting. When we travel, you talk around the dinner table. People are still impressed that you were with NASA and want to know all about it. I don’t think you ever had anybody—

I don’t think anyone’s ever asked me for an autograph.

But there’s a certain—

There’s a lot of difference between an astronaut and an engineer, and astronauts, rightly so, they get all the publicity. I could see where you’d want to get something from them. But an engineer?

I noticed the last couple trips we’ve taken, everybody shares what they do for a living, and they talk about NASA, then everybody’s very interested still. It’s good that people still believe in the mission.

Even when I spent that three months in Germany, the hotel people were interested. There were five or seven of us, and there was a lot of talking about things. They’d ask questions. We took trolleys from there to the plant we were at. They fed us lunch every day. Never had a lunch before where the employees were drinking beer out of kegs.

[Assistant] Not something you’d see here.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were used to them, and it sure did help.

[Assistant] We have this interview from the ’60s with a guy from procurement, and he talks about how really there was space fever going on here in the city of Houston. How people wanted autographs from even him. He was a procurement guy. He showed up to some Halloween party, and somebody wanted an autograph from him. He was really embarrassed, because he’s not an astronaut. I wondered, did you ever encounter that, Dick? Were people enamored of you because you worked at NASA either here in Houston or wherever you were traveling?

[User]
It’s interesting. When we travel, you talk around the dinner table. People are still impressed that you were with NASA and want to know all about it. I don’t think you ever had anybody—

I don’t think anyone’s ever asked me for an autograph.

But there’s a certain—

There’s a lot of difference between an astronaut and an engineer, and astronauts, rightly so, they get all the publicity. I could see where you’d want to get something from them. But an engineer?

I noticed the last couple trips we’ve taken, everybody shares what they do for a living, and they talk about NASA, then everybody’s very interested still. It’s good that people still believe in the mission.

Even when I spent that three months in Germany, the hotel people were interested. There were five or seven of us, and there was a lot of talking about things. They’d ask questions. We took trolleys from there to the plant we were at. They fed us lunch every day. Never had a lunch before where the employees were drinking beer out of kegs.

[Assistant] Not something you’d see here.

[User] I think there’s still some interest in that.

[Assistant] I think NASA evokes great memories, and people are amazed by what NASA accomplished.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
It’s interesting. When we travel, you talk around the dinner table. People are still impressed that you were with NASA and want to know all about it. I don’t think you ever had anybody—

I don’t think anyone’s ever asked me for an autograph.

But there’s a certain—

There’s a lot of difference between an astronaut and an engineer, and astronauts, rightly so, they get all the publicity. I could see where you’d want to get something from them. But an engineer?

I noticed the last couple trips we’ve taken, everybody shares what they do for a living, and they talk about NASA, then everybody’s very interested still. It’s good that people still believe in the mission.

Even when I spent that three months in Germany, the hotel people were interested. There were five or seven of us, and there was a lot of talking about things. They’d ask questions. We took trolleys from there to the plant we were at. They fed us lunch every day. Never had a lunch before where the employees were drinking beer out of kegs.

[Assistant] Not something you’d see here.

[User] I think there’s still some interest in that.

[Assistant] I think NASA evokes great memories, and people are amazed by what NASA accomplished.

[User]
NASA seems to be heading into having private companies do stuff. They got many people launching things. I think it’s going to lose some of its allure.

Glamour or whatever you want to call it.

[Assistant] Things are changing, that’s for sure.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
NASA seems to be heading into having private companies do stuff. They got many people launching things. I think it’s going to lose some of its allure.

Glamour or whatever you want to call it.

[Assistant] Things are changing, that’s for sure.

[User]
You can also probably make more money going to work for one of them.

Yes, you’re not at the mercy of government.

[Assistant] Congress.

[User]
One thing that I do remember very vividly was when I was ready to retire we went back down to KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida], and the people I’d worked with all this time arranged for us and our daughter and our granddaughter to go out to the launchpad and to drive up to it and walk underneath an [Orbiter] that was on the pad and look up.

They won’t let you do that anymore.

That probably wasn’t something they should have done back then. I always tell my older granddaughter that you’re one of the very few people who ever had a chance to see that.

[Assistant] That’s very unique. I did want to ask about a couple more missions, one being Apollo 11. It’s one of those events. You remember where you were and what you were doing at the time. I wonder where you were and what your emotions were like at that point. You’d been working so hard on the Program.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
You can also probably make more money going to work for one of them.

Yes, you’re not at the mercy of government.

[Assistant] Congress.

[User]
One thing that I do remember very vividly was when I was ready to retire we went back down to KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida], and the people I’d worked with all this time arranged for us and our daughter and our granddaughter to go out to the launchpad and to drive up to it and walk underneath an [Orbiter] that was on the pad and look up.

They won’t let you do that anymore.

That probably wasn’t something they should have done back then. I always tell my older granddaughter that you’re one of the very few people who ever had a chance to see that.

[Assistant] That’s very unique. I did want to ask about a couple more missions, one being Apollo 11. It’s one of those events. You remember where you were and what you were doing at the time. I wonder where you were and what your emotions were like at that point. You’d been working so hard on the Program.

[User]
Emotions were high. Was I at Langley?

No, we were here, because I remember sitting on the bed with the kids watching the Moon landing.

I was probably at work then.

[Assistant] Oh, you were at work.