[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I didn't sit in the village the whole time.

[Assistant] OK. What did you do?

[User] Well.

[Assistant] You were out helping with the survey.

[User] I did that, yes. And, uh, also putting in plants, uh, demonstration plots. We, uh, we have two growing seasons right next to each other in Guatemala, and it's all in the rainy season. So you can get a really good crop of corn. And what happens is you get a really good crop of corn in the first season and then kind of a messed up crop of corn the second go round because of the build up of pests and diseases that are there to hit your new, your second group. So we were looking for a second crop.

[Assistant] And corn was a traditional crop?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] And black beans.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Um. But we found that sesame seed grows well down there. We don't necessarily have the knowledge about how it's to be handled or where it's to go and those kinds of things. But we did a demonstration plot with that.

[Assistant] How did you organize a demonstration plot, I mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And black beans.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Um. But we found that sesame seed grows well down there. We don't necessarily have the knowledge about how it's to be handled or where it's to go and those kinds of things. But we did a demonstration plot with that.

[Assistant] How did you organize a demonstration plot, I mean?

[User] I worked with, I worked with one of the farmers that was near, actually that lived near me, right near me, and I was very close to his family.

[Assistant] What was his incentive to do this?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. But we found that sesame seed grows well down there. We don't necessarily have the knowledge about how it's to be handled or where it's to go and those kinds of things. But we did a demonstration plot with that.

[Assistant] How did you organize a demonstration plot, I mean?

[User] I worked with, I worked with one of the farmers that was near, actually that lived near me, right near me, and I was very close to his family.

[Assistant] What was his incentive to do this?

[User] A total knowledge that what we could do for him and his family was going to benefit his family. He had a third grade education. His kids had a sixth grade education in school in town. And one of his sons did go on to higher education and became a social worker. And so he was very, I know this is good for my family, kind of a person. He's from the area. He was not imported. He was not one of the imported folks.

[Assistant] And the interaction with, between the two of you just was such that he trusted that it was worthwhile, and you were able to explain why?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A total knowledge that what we could do for him and his family was going to benefit his family. He had a third grade education. His kids had a sixth grade education in school in town. And one of his sons did go on to higher education and became a social worker. And so he was very, I know this is good for my family, kind of a person. He's from the area. He was not imported. He was not one of the imported folks.

[Assistant] And the interaction with, between the two of you just was such that he trusted that it was worthwhile, and you were able to explain why?

[User] Yes. And the thing, one of the things I did notice and all of this, in demonstrations and all that activity, is that his kids liked to be around me. And I never said, this is the way we ought to do it. I said, let's try it this way. And or I heard from the perito agrono from location that this is, let's try it. He's going to give it to us. Let's give it a try. And he was willing to do this.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So we tried sesame and we tried soybeans.

[Assistant] OK. Now this is all, we're still talking all within the first six months to a year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So we tried sesame and we tried soybeans.

[Assistant] OK. Now this is all, we're still talking all within the first six months to a year?

[User] Oh, year.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] But, OK. I'm a person who had, out of a, in a rural community development group, there were only six of us who had an agricultural background of any sort.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, year.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] But, OK. I'm a person who had, out of a, in a rural community development group, there were only six of us who had an agricultural background of any sort.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

[User] And so one of the things that did happen during the time and may have made my experience in the village different from what it could have been, was the fact that I was called upon by my colleagues to help them, uh, do some agricultural things in their own communities.

[Assistant] I was going to ask you whether during your initial settling in and it's clear that it seems to me that things were working. I mean, the institutions that were involved, so forth. Plus your role. Did anyone come out from Peace Corps and see what you were doing and pick up on the fact that perhaps you'd gotten all the pieces together in a pretty good way?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But, OK. I'm a person who had, out of a, in a rural community development group, there were only six of us who had an agricultural background of any sort.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

[User] And so one of the things that did happen during the time and may have made my experience in the village different from what it could have been, was the fact that I was called upon by my colleagues to help them, uh, do some agricultural things in their own communities.

[Assistant] I was going to ask you whether during your initial settling in and it's clear that it seems to me that things were working. I mean, the institutions that were involved, so forth. Plus your role. Did anyone come out from Peace Corps and see what you were doing and pick up on the fact that perhaps you'd gotten all the pieces together in a pretty good way?

[User] I don't know if he actually saw that, but our regional supervisor did come out. He made it a point to visit one of us every week.

[Assistant] Oh, every week.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know if he actually saw that, but our regional supervisor did come out. He made it a point to visit one of us every week.

[Assistant] Oh, every week.

[User] I mean.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] He made sure that he made a trip.

[Assistant] So how often did you see him during the first six months?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] He made sure that he made a trip.

[Assistant] So how often did you see him during the first six months?

[User] Um, well, besides the fact of seeing him in the office, um. And that he had a, he had a house where we could go in and crash when we came out of the towns.

[Assistant] Was this in Guatemala City?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He made sure that he made a trip.

[Assistant] So how often did you see him during the first six months?

[User] Um, well, besides the fact of seeing him in the office, um. And that he had a, he had a house where we could go in and crash when we came out of the towns.

[Assistant] Was this in Guatemala City?

[User] It was in Mazatenango, which is a regional town that's ahead of the, it was halfway between the Mexican border and the port of San Jose.

[Assistant] How far from where you were?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, well, besides the fact of seeing him in the office, um. And that he had a, he had a house where we could go in and crash when we came out of the towns.

[Assistant] Was this in Guatemala City?

[User] It was in Mazatenango, which is a regional town that's ahead of the, it was halfway between the Mexican border and the port of San Jose.

[Assistant] How far from where you were?

[User] Um, well, it was on the highway, so it was, that was the hour out of town.

[Assistant] Yeah. And that was where you would go? Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was in Mazatenango, which is a regional town that's ahead of the, it was halfway between the Mexican border and the port of San Jose.

[Assistant] How far from where you were?

[User] Um, well, it was on the highway, so it was, that was the hour out of town.

[Assistant] Yeah. And that was where you would go? Yeah.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] I was going to ask whether during the six months, how often did you come out of the village for whatever reason?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, well, it was on the highway, so it was, that was the hour out of town.

[Assistant] Yeah. And that was where you would go? Yeah.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] I was going to ask whether during the six months, how often did you come out of the village for whatever reason?

[User] I was able to come out probably once every two weeks, a week or so. I mean, I. Um. Goods were available in Mazatenango, and it was also a place where we had our regional office. So if we knew that folks were going to be in, we would, uh, we'd be there at the same time so we could go to lunch or do dinner or something like that before we had to go back to do so.

[Assistant] Living in the village, did you, did you find that you had a loss of privacy? I mean, Americans generally, we tend to want to.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was able to come out probably once every two weeks, a week or so. I mean, I. Um. Goods were available in Mazatenango, and it was also a place where we had our regional office. So if we knew that folks were going to be in, we would, uh, we'd be there at the same time so we could go to lunch or do dinner or something like that before we had to go back to do so.

[Assistant] Living in the village, did you, did you find that you had a loss of privacy? I mean, Americans generally, we tend to want to.

[User] Well, here's a deal is that, I told you I lived with the family in their house. Well, school let out for the summer, which was over Christmas, and they thought that it would be much more comfortable for me to go and live in the school building. So I said, yeah, all right, fine. It's a big, huge, long thing. And it's got a stage at one end, the raised stage at one end, and then there's, there's that much space between the boards along the walls and every place else.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, so basically created a room up on the stage and washing stuff down below. And it was also during the time when we were starting to talk about building the house. And the community said, yes, we'll do this and we'll cut the wood. We've got a carpenter. We just need, we need cement, we need blocks, we need reinforcement rods, we need roofing, uh, we need nails. And so we took my whole allowance and got those things and then hired somebody to haul the gravel for the foundation.

[Assistant] Where in your service did this occur?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, so basically created a room up on the stage and washing stuff down below. And it was also during the time when we were starting to talk about building the house. And the community said, yes, we'll do this and we'll cut the wood. We've got a carpenter. We just need, we need cement, we need blocks, we need reinforcement rods, we need roofing, uh, we need nails. And so we took my whole allowance and got those things and then hired somebody to haul the gravel for the foundation.

[Assistant] Where in your service did this occur?

[User] This was, this was in the end of six months.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Because, um.

[Assistant] And after having lived at the school, on the stage at the school for a little while.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This was, this was in the end of six months.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Because, um.

[Assistant] And after having lived at the school, on the stage at the school for a little while.

[User] Yeah. I lived on the, and you know, you can live on the school stage for quite a while but you realize you have to get up at 6:00 every morning and get things going and out and so that you're not there when the class starts.

[Assistant] So. And was the house built in reasonable time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because, um.

[Assistant] And after having lived at the school, on the stage at the school for a little while.

[User] Yeah. I lived on the, and you know, you can live on the school stage for quite a while but you realize you have to get up at 6:00 every morning and get things going and out and so that you're not there when the class starts.

[Assistant] So. And was the house built in reasonable time?

[User] Yeah, I was. I had it before the end of my first year.

[Assistant] Your design or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. I lived on the, and you know, you can live on the school stage for quite a while but you realize you have to get up at 6:00 every morning and get things going and out and so that you're not there when the class starts.

[Assistant] So. And was the house built in reasonable time?

[User] Yeah, I was. I had it before the end of my first year.

[Assistant] Your design or?

[User] My design. Um, I learned something when I did that. I came up with a great design, and then I realized that I needed to put the, instead of the porch over here, I needed to put the porch here and basically flip the design, but I should have rewritten it for the guys. But it was just, it looked like a lot of the other houses. It was, that was, um.

[Assistant] Concrete block walls?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Concrete block, well up three feet, a meter rather, and then two meters of wood, and not, not a full two meters, but, about that much space of screen all around the top.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] Underneath the eaves.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um. Doors or window, shutters on the windows.

[Assistant] Asbestos composition roof?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Underneath the eaves.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um. Doors or window, shutters on the windows.

[Assistant] Asbestos composition roof?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] But no ceiling.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. Doors or window, shutters on the windows.

[Assistant] Asbestos composition roof?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] But no ceiling.

[User] No ceiling.

[Assistant] In the room so.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] But no ceiling.

[User] No ceiling.

[Assistant] In the room so.

[User] And it had a, it was basically a square and half of it was the living room kitchen kind of area. And then half of this was porch and the other half was the bedroom.

[Assistant] OK. Go ahead.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No ceiling.

[Assistant] In the room so.

[User] And it had a, it was basically a square and half of it was the living room kitchen kind of area. And then half of this was porch and the other half was the bedroom.

[Assistant] OK. Go ahead.

[User] And an outhouse out back.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. So it must have been like moving into a palace when it was finally done.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it had a, it was basically a square and half of it was the living room kitchen kind of area. And then half of this was porch and the other half was the bedroom.

[Assistant] OK. Go ahead.

[User] And an outhouse out back.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. So it must have been like moving into a palace when it was finally done.

[User] Oh, yeah. The kids loved it because they'd come over and sit on a clean floor and play jacks or whatever.

[Assistant] I gather that on any given day, you had very little privacy. I mean, there was always some either professional activity going on or informal activity.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah. The kids loved it because they'd come over and sit on a clean floor and play jacks or whatever.

[Assistant] I gather that on any given day, you had very little privacy. I mean, there was always some either professional activity going on or informal activity.

[User] Yeah, your privacy came at night and. Except on the day that they inaugurated my house, because then they, the officials came over from the nearby parcelamiento and they were, administrators like to get in on all kinds of things that they might have really supported and they did, they supported this. So I had him standing outside my door that night with a serenade going on and the family that I was close to across the street wondering what was going on. And they were so tired that they would fall, they couldn't stay up and follow what was happening. I had to say, no, go away.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It's time for me, keep my door locked and everything. It was just.

[Assistant] During the first six months plus, did you become closer friends with any people in the village, kind of as an entree into the traditional life, you know, celebration of births and marriage and any holidays?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, your privacy came at night and. Except on the day that they inaugurated my house, because then they, the officials came over from the nearby parcelamiento and they were, administrators like to get in on all kinds of things that they might have really supported and they did, they supported this. So I had him standing outside my door that night with a serenade going on and the family that I was close to across the street wondering what was going on. And they were so tired that they would fall, they couldn't stay up and follow what was happening. I had to say, no, go away.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It's time for me, keep my door locked and everything. It was just.

[Assistant] During the first six months plus, did you become closer friends with any people in the village, kind of as an entree into the traditional life, you know, celebration of births and marriage and any holidays?

[User] Yes, actually, Don Hilario and his family lived across the street. I was very close to that. So I was in on their birthdays. And they had a little boy while, shortly before I got there, and I got in on his funeral, which was really sad, because I was out of town when he died and I got back just in time for the funeral. That was really sad because I liked the little kid.

[Assistant] Was there a Catholic church in town?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's time for me, keep my door locked and everything. It was just.

[Assistant] During the first six months plus, did you become closer friends with any people in the village, kind of as an entree into the traditional life, you know, celebration of births and marriage and any holidays?

[User] Yes, actually, Don Hilario and his family lived across the street. I was very close to that. So I was in on their birthdays. And they had a little boy while, shortly before I got there, and I got in on his funeral, which was really sad, because I was out of town when he died and I got back just in time for the funeral. That was really sad because I liked the little kid.

[Assistant] Was there a Catholic church in town?

[User] Uh, yes, but it was, uh, it kind of looked like the. It was one big old room.

[Assistant] It was not a cathedral?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. And it was one board thick on the walls. And it had a light that came from the generator, from Dona Elicia's place, because she was Catholic. And when the, um, when they would have a padre come in, irregularly, then we'd have, um, services. And it was right next door to my house.

[Assistant] Ah, OK.

[User] But there were a lot of evangelical chapels.

[Assistant] Oh really?

[User] Yeah, there were probably three other chapels in the area.

[Assistant] Did you attend any of the places, any of the churches?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But there were a lot of evangelical chapels.

[Assistant] Oh really?

[User] Yeah, there were probably three other chapels in the area.

[Assistant] Did you attend any of the places, any of the churches?

[User] I would go. I didn't because I didn't feel comfortable singling anybody out.

[Assistant] Uh huh. OK.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I would go. I didn't because I didn't feel comfortable singling anybody out.

[Assistant] Uh huh. OK.

[User] Although when it came to doing the Posada at Christmas time, everybody seemed to participate in that for, as a Catholic tradition. But everybody participated in that so.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] We did that.

[Assistant] And what, isn't there also the November 1st, the second dio, day of the dead?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Although when it came to doing the Posada at Christmas time, everybody seemed to participate in that for, as a Catholic tradition. But everybody participated in that so.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] We did that.

[Assistant] And what, isn't there also the November 1st, the second dio, day of the dead?

[User] Not to celebrate it in.

[Assistant] OK, maybe it's more Mexican.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We did that.

[Assistant] And what, isn't there also the November 1st, the second dio, day of the dead?

[User] Not to celebrate it in.

[Assistant] OK, maybe it's more Mexican.

[User] It's Mexican. But for national holiday, the quince of September, yeah. Involved in the parade of the kids in all their brand- new uniforms.

[Assistant] Did you parade or were you simply on the sidelines?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not to celebrate it in.

[Assistant] OK, maybe it's more Mexican.

[User] It's Mexican. But for national holiday, the quince of September, yeah. Involved in the parade of the kids in all their brand- new uniforms.

[Assistant] Did you parade or were you simply on the sidelines?

[User] Um. I was in the age group that didn't.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. You weren't expected to carry a Peace Corps banner down the main street?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's Mexican. But for national holiday, the quince of September, yeah. Involved in the parade of the kids in all their brand- new uniforms.

[Assistant] Did you parade or were you simply on the sidelines?

[User] Um. I was in the age group that didn't.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. You weren't expected to carry a Peace Corps banner down the main street?

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] During the first year, did you do any recreational travel?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. I was in the age group that didn't.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. You weren't expected to carry a Peace Corps banner down the main street?

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] During the first year, did you do any recreational travel?

[User] Actually, yes, I did go to Mexico City for Christmas and met my parents there and my sister, and I traveled with a Peace Corps buddy friend. That bugger. We were supposed to see him last week, last year. But he didn't show up in New Mexico. Um, but we traveled. We did that. And about six months into our stay, Peace Corps brought us all together at a kind of a retreat place for about three nights.

[Assistant] The whole group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] During the first year, did you do any recreational travel?

[User] Actually, yes, I did go to Mexico City for Christmas and met my parents there and my sister, and I traveled with a Peace Corps buddy friend. That bugger. We were supposed to see him last week, last year. But he didn't show up in New Mexico. Um, but we traveled. We did that. And about six months into our stay, Peace Corps brought us all together at a kind of a retreat place for about three nights.

[Assistant] The whole group?

[User] The whole group.

[Assistant] Highlands as well as coast?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Actually, yes, I did go to Mexico City for Christmas and met my parents there and my sister, and I traveled with a Peace Corps buddy friend. That bugger. We were supposed to see him last week, last year. But he didn't show up in New Mexico. Um, but we traveled. We did that. And about six months into our stay, Peace Corps brought us all together at a kind of a retreat place for about three nights.

[Assistant] The whole group?

[User] The whole group.

[Assistant] Highlands as well as coast?

[User] Highlands. Yeah.

[Assistant] And was it still 36 or had some people left?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The whole group.

[Assistant] Highlands as well as coast?

[User] Highlands. Yeah.

[Assistant] And was it still 36 or had some people left?

[User] No, it had to dropped a few then, there was a couple of couples. Oh, there was two couples I think that left.

[Assistant] And what went on at the retreat?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Highlands. Yeah.

[Assistant] And was it still 36 or had some people left?

[User] No, it had to dropped a few then, there was a couple of couples. Oh, there was two couples I think that left.

[Assistant] And what went on at the retreat?

[User] Um, it was a storytelling time. I don't. We weren't. I don't think we were tested at that time, but that was also. When did we get our next gamma globulin shots?

[Assistant] It may have been then, because they can come fairly often.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it had to dropped a few then, there was a couple of couples. Oh, there was two couples I think that left.

[Assistant] And what went on at the retreat?

[User] Um, it was a storytelling time. I don't. We weren't. I don't think we were tested at that time, but that was also. When did we get our next gamma globulin shots?

[Assistant] It may have been then, because they can come fairly often.

[User] But it was kind of a debriefing and it was held at a hot springs. And so we were all in these little cabins around there with fire going. And it was about 5000, 6000 thousand feet elevation. And so it was a.

[Assistant] It must have been a nice break from the village and the food as well as the, well, not being in public all the time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, it was a storytelling time. I don't. We weren't. I don't think we were tested at that time, but that was also. When did we get our next gamma globulin shots?

[Assistant] It may have been then, because they can come fairly often.

[User] But it was kind of a debriefing and it was held at a hot springs. And so we were all in these little cabins around there with fire going. And it was about 5000, 6000 thousand feet elevation. And so it was a.

[Assistant] It must have been a nice break from the village and the food as well as the, well, not being in public all the time.

[User] Right. It was a nice time deal.

[Assistant] There's kind of an embarrassing question, but were you developing the reputation that in some projects we used to refer to person as a super vol? I mean, that what you were doing really kind of was, you know, represented the best of the Peace Corps could do, I mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know if what I was doing at the time in the village was recognized as something that. I think the fact that I expanded and did something in the, I developed another project.

[Assistant] Which was?

[User] Uh, it was a tropical fruit improvement project. And I piloted it with my people in my town and a couple of others who recognized this as a possibility. And that is, um. They would plant, they'd get a really great orange and plant the seed, and be very disappointed five years later when it didn't come out the way they wanted it to. At the same time, AID had worked with Extension Service over the years before and helped them develop a very reputable nursery and an extension site.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And so I discovered that and they had mangoes and oranges, all the citrus, and a wide variety of mangoes grafted that you could purchase for the citrus to get it for $0.30 a plant for the mangoes. It paid $0.50 a pound for cashew. You paid $0.50 a plant. Well, I worked on a project, I developed a project to actually teach the farmers how to graft and how to take care of their trees.

[Assistant] And were you doing this not on a cooperative basis, but with individuals, individual farmers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, it was a tropical fruit improvement project. And I piloted it with my people in my town and a couple of others who recognized this as a possibility. And that is, um. They would plant, they'd get a really great orange and plant the seed, and be very disappointed five years later when it didn't come out the way they wanted it to. At the same time, AID had worked with Extension Service over the years before and helped them develop a very reputable nursery and an extension site.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And so I discovered that and they had mangoes and oranges, all the citrus, and a wide variety of mangoes grafted that you could purchase for the citrus to get it for $0.30 a plant for the mangoes. It paid $0.50 a pound for cashew. You paid $0.50 a plant. Well, I worked on a project, I developed a project to actually teach the farmers how to graft and how to take care of their trees.

[Assistant] And were you doing this not on a cooperative basis, but with individuals, individual farmers?

[User] I did it with, um. Actually, I did it with a group of farmers from a village. They could send. I got some funding and they could send, uh, five or six people from the village to this, to a short course. And I had them come from not only my village, but they, the other volunteers had three or four people, and we brought them together and got funding for their housing and for their food. We hired somebody to cook for them while they were at the site. And then the people on the site, the agrónomos on the site ran courses on how to bud and graft and introduce different varieties of fruit, of mangoes.

[Assistant] And you were so, although there were other volunteers involved in this, you had taken the initiative to develop it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so I discovered that and they had mangoes and oranges, all the citrus, and a wide variety of mangoes grafted that you could purchase for the citrus to get it for $0.30 a plant for the mangoes. It paid $0.50 a pound for cashew. You paid $0.50 a plant. Well, I worked on a project, I developed a project to actually teach the farmers how to graft and how to take care of their trees.

[Assistant] And were you doing this not on a cooperative basis, but with individuals, individual farmers?

[User] I did it with, um. Actually, I did it with a group of farmers from a village. They could send. I got some funding and they could send, uh, five or six people from the village to this, to a short course. And I had them come from not only my village, but they, the other volunteers had three or four people, and we brought them together and got funding for their housing and for their food. We hired somebody to cook for them while they were at the site. And then the people on the site, the agrónomos on the site ran courses on how to bud and graft and introduce different varieties of fruit, of mangoes.

[Assistant] And you were so, although there were other volunteers involved in this, you had taken the initiative to develop it?

[User] Yes. Yeah.

[Assistant] And was it, were they? But they were still growing individually, not, you didn't create a huge citrus grove that was cooperatively?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did it with, um. Actually, I did it with a group of farmers from a village. They could send. I got some funding and they could send, uh, five or six people from the village to this, to a short course. And I had them come from not only my village, but they, the other volunteers had three or four people, and we brought them together and got funding for their housing and for their food. We hired somebody to cook for them while they were at the site. And then the people on the site, the agrónomos on the site ran courses on how to bud and graft and introduce different varieties of fruit, of mangoes.

[Assistant] And you were so, although there were other volunteers involved in this, you had taken the initiative to develop it?

[User] Yes. Yeah.

[Assistant] And was it, were they? But they were still growing individually, not, you didn't create a huge citrus grove that was cooperatively?

[User] No. No.

[Assistant] OK, I just.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yeah.

[Assistant] And was it, were they? But they were still growing individually, not, you didn't create a huge citrus grove that was cooperatively?

[User] No. No.

[Assistant] OK, I just.

[User]
Because people were, had a certain amount of pride of ownership, I guess. And also in most of our sites, a big orchard of mangoes was not feasible. We just didn't, people didn't have that have five hectares of land to contribute to something. They might be able to have two or three trees in their, on their patio or the edge of their, of their corn plots or something like that. So what we did, that was only one part was to show them how they could do that and get them acquainted with Los Brillantes.

And then we did a, then I helped establish some nurseries in a different, two or three, two other sites. The volunteers there were working with the schools in doing gardens, and so they actually developed a garden, a nursery plot for citrus. And we went down and taught them how to do the budding on grafting on their seedlings so that and help them get good, uh, showed them how to get good buds from trees that are producing something they liked, and also brought some from the experiment station down for them to put in. Sally did one of those nurseries at her site and her team of, I mean, the leaders in her area did put those on.

[Assistant] You mentioned at one point that you I mean, you're talking about how you're helping your Peace Corps colleagues. Was that role formalized by the Peace Corps so that you were expected to travel along the coast or the south and help individuals?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. No.

[Assistant] OK, I just.

[User]
Because people were, had a certain amount of pride of ownership, I guess. And also in most of our sites, a big orchard of mangoes was not feasible. We just didn't, people didn't have that have five hectares of land to contribute to something. They might be able to have two or three trees in their, on their patio or the edge of their, of their corn plots or something like that. So what we did, that was only one part was to show them how they could do that and get them acquainted with Los Brillantes.

And then we did a, then I helped establish some nurseries in a different, two or three, two other sites. The volunteers there were working with the schools in doing gardens, and so they actually developed a garden, a nursery plot for citrus. And we went down and taught them how to do the budding on grafting on their seedlings so that and help them get good, uh, showed them how to get good buds from trees that are producing something they liked, and also brought some from the experiment station down for them to put in. Sally did one of those nurseries at her site and her team of, I mean, the leaders in her area did put those on.

[Assistant] You mentioned at one point that you I mean, you're talking about how you're helping your Peace Corps colleagues. Was that role formalized by the Peace Corps so that you were expected to travel along the coast or the south and help individuals?

[User] Well, I was given a vehicle.

[Assistant] OK. That certainly frees you up.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Because people were, had a certain amount of pride of ownership, I guess. And also in most of our sites, a big orchard of mangoes was not feasible. We just didn't, people didn't have that have five hectares of land to contribute to something. They might be able to have two or three trees in their, on their patio or the edge of their, of their corn plots or something like that. So what we did, that was only one part was to show them how they could do that and get them acquainted with Los Brillantes.

And then we did a, then I helped establish some nurseries in a different, two or three, two other sites. The volunteers there were working with the schools in doing gardens, and so they actually developed a garden, a nursery plot for citrus. And we went down and taught them how to do the budding on grafting on their seedlings so that and help them get good, uh, showed them how to get good buds from trees that are producing something they liked, and also brought some from the experiment station down for them to put in. Sally did one of those nurseries at her site and her team of, I mean, the leaders in her area did put those on.

[Assistant] You mentioned at one point that you I mean, you're talking about how you're helping your Peace Corps colleagues. Was that role formalized by the Peace Corps so that you were expected to travel along the coast or the south and help individuals?

[User] Well, I was given a vehicle.

[Assistant] OK. That certainly frees you up.

[User] So and encouraged to do that. Now, did I.

[Assistant] By Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I was given a vehicle.

[Assistant] OK. That certainly frees you up.

[User] So and encouraged to do that. Now, did I.

[Assistant] By Peace Corps?

[User] By Peace Corps, by my advisor, by my regional supervisor.

[Assistant] And was it at your initiative or his initiative or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So and encouraged to do that. Now, did I.

[Assistant] By Peace Corps?

[User] By Peace Corps, by my advisor, by my regional supervisor.

[Assistant] And was it at your initiative or his initiative or?

[User] We kind of decided what I needed to do, where I needed to go and where I needed, some of the things I needed to do. But the truck or the vehicle actually came into even greater play in our third phase of the fruit development project, and that is that we would take orders for the plants and collect money from the farmers. And I'd go and pick up the plants and then deliver them to the various Peace Corps sites.

[Assistant] And this was being developed out of the regional headquarters?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] By Peace Corps, by my advisor, by my regional supervisor.

[Assistant] And was it at your initiative or his initiative or?

[User] We kind of decided what I needed to do, where I needed to go and where I needed, some of the things I needed to do. But the truck or the vehicle actually came into even greater play in our third phase of the fruit development project, and that is that we would take orders for the plants and collect money from the farmers. And I'd go and pick up the plants and then deliver them to the various Peace Corps sites.

[Assistant] And this was being developed out of the regional headquarters?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So did you begin spending more time there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So did you begin spending more time there?

[User] Um, I spent some, I would say I wasn't a lot of time. Two nights at a time maybe.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] That kind of thing. But I was more, I was. If I'd go to a, if I'd go to the, say, the Benzlers' site, I would be there for two days, come back. And actually I don't recall now, I'm trying to remember how many times I might have actually had the vehicle down in my village. And I don't remember too many times having the vehicle down in my village.

[Assistant] You were driving it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, I spent some, I would say I wasn't a lot of time. Two nights at a time maybe.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] That kind of thing. But I was more, I was. If I'd go to a, if I'd go to the, say, the Benzlers' site, I would be there for two days, come back. And actually I don't recall now, I'm trying to remember how many times I might have actually had the vehicle down in my village. And I don't remember too many times having the vehicle down in my village.

[Assistant] You were driving it?

[User] I would drive it, yeah.

[Assistant] Was it a pickup truck or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That kind of thing. But I was more, I was. If I'd go to a, if I'd go to the, say, the Benzlers' site, I would be there for two days, come back. And actually I don't recall now, I'm trying to remember how many times I might have actually had the vehicle down in my village. And I don't remember too many times having the vehicle down in my village.

[Assistant] You were driving it?

[User] I would drive it, yeah.

[Assistant] Was it a pickup truck or?

[User] A Gladiator. Well, it is a pickup truck. A jeep.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I would drive it, yeah.

[Assistant] Was it a pickup truck or?

[User] A Gladiator. Well, it is a pickup truck. A jeep.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. Yeah.

[User] And but we had two, and we had three Wagoneers, the two Wagoneers on the coast, two of these pickups. And so I got the one that had the winch. So it was a wench with a winch.

[Assistant] Was it ever suggested that you become a Peace Corps staff member? There was a category, I think, of volunteer leader.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A Gladiator. Well, it is a pickup truck. A jeep.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. Yeah.

[User] And but we had two, and we had three Wagoneers, the two Wagoneers on the coast, two of these pickups. And so I got the one that had the winch. So it was a wench with a winch.

[Assistant] Was it ever suggested that you become a Peace Corps staff member? There was a category, I think, of volunteer leader.

[User] No, but I did extend a year.

[Assistant] OK. But during the second year, you were, you were playing this role of. Did you feel you were slighting your village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And but we had two, and we had three Wagoneers, the two Wagoneers on the coast, two of these pickups. And so I got the one that had the winch. So it was a wench with a winch.

[Assistant] Was it ever suggested that you become a Peace Corps staff member? There was a category, I think, of volunteer leader.

[User] No, but I did extend a year.

[Assistant] OK. But during the second year, you were, you were playing this role of. Did you feel you were slighting your village?

[User] I didn't because they were involved in those activities. I mean, and there were. I didn't feel I was slighting it. There was. I don't know. The whole idea of development is to get the people in the village to operate on their own and be able to know where those resources were. And whatever we did and whatever, it was at the right time and place. I went back five years later and they had built a clinic next door to my house and had a nurse that lived in the area. They had latrines, outhouses, on the properties. So something had happened that carried that on. And when I had a conversation with the people who lived across, the families that lived across the, who I was close to, um.

[Assistant] This is after five years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn't because they were involved in those activities. I mean, and there were. I didn't feel I was slighting it. There was. I don't know. The whole idea of development is to get the people in the village to operate on their own and be able to know where those resources were. And whatever we did and whatever, it was at the right time and place. I went back five years later and they had built a clinic next door to my house and had a nurse that lived in the area. They had latrines, outhouses, on the properties. So something had happened that carried that on. And when I had a conversation with the people who lived across, the families that lived across the, who I was close to, um.

[Assistant] This is after five years?

[User] This was after five years. They. They never said, they came and did this for us. This is what we had done.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So something that we did in that time helped that community at least come closer to the middle of the 20th century?

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Well.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This was after five years. They. They never said, they came and did this for us. This is what we had done.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So something that we did in that time helped that community at least come closer to the middle of the 20th century?

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Well.

[User] And they increased the number of teachers from one to three.

[Assistant] I mean, there are so many, uh, well, not disaster stories, but almost non-stories in rural community development, particularly where people have going back years later and found that, in fact, you know, there was almost no trace of what the volunteer felt he or she was trying to do. I mean, this is kind of extraordinary. And what was the story in the other villages in the south where the volunteers were? Now you're part of what they're doing because you're doing the fruit tree nursery business.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they increased the number of teachers from one to three.

[Assistant] I mean, there are so many, uh, well, not disaster stories, but almost non-stories in rural community development, particularly where people have going back years later and found that, in fact, you know, there was almost no trace of what the volunteer felt he or she was trying to do. I mean, this is kind of extraordinary. And what was the story in the other villages in the south where the volunteers were? Now you're part of what they're doing because you're doing the fruit tree nursery business.

[User] When we went back.

[Assistant] Now, we?

[User] I went back five years later with a, uh, with five friends.

[Assistant] All from the?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When we went back.

[Assistant] Now, we?

[User] I went back five years later with a, uh, with five friends.

[Assistant] All from the?

[User] No, I was the only one. I was the guide actually. And when we went to visit the various, a couple of the spots that had been. We found the trees growing. We found in the. [tape break] There was a demonstration parcel and a pair of my colleagues, actually one of my colleagues started it. A couple took it over, really ran some great demonstrations of corn holler, a corn dryer, hog operation, a chicken operation. We had a big old party over there with a chicken barbecue after they demonstrated.

[Assistant] Now were these volunteers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I went back five years later with a, uh, with five friends.

[Assistant] All from the?

[User] No, I was the only one. I was the guide actually. And when we went to visit the various, a couple of the spots that had been. We found the trees growing. We found in the. [tape break] There was a demonstration parcel and a pair of my colleagues, actually one of my colleagues started it. A couple took it over, really ran some great demonstrations of corn holler, a corn dryer, hog operation, a chicken operation. We had a big old party over there with a chicken barbecue after they demonstrated.

[Assistant] Now were these volunteers?

[User] Yes, yes. They were from our group.

[Assistant] OK. Got it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I was the only one. I was the guide actually. And when we went to visit the various, a couple of the spots that had been. We found the trees growing. We found in the. [tape break] There was a demonstration parcel and a pair of my colleagues, actually one of my colleagues started it. A couple took it over, really ran some great demonstrations of corn holler, a corn dryer, hog operation, a chicken operation. We had a big old party over there with a chicken barbecue after they demonstrated.

[Assistant] Now were these volunteers?

[User] Yes, yes. They were from our group.

[Assistant] OK. Got it.

[User] So I went back. Well, that was one of the things that we did is we put in this demonstration orchard on this plot and it had probably ten varieties of mangoes on it. We, when we came back and when I went down there five years later, met the guardián on the property. There were no volunteers on the property any longer. But the INTA had interest in this property. But the guardián was there. He knew me, remembered me and everything. And so while we were there, he said, come see what I've got here. And we went to his house, looked on the floor, and he had a big old net full of the best mangoes. I mean, he. These guys didn't know what they had, but he knew what they had.

[Assistant] It must be very sweet, literally, to go back and enjoy the fruit of the trees that you had been involved in getting the whole thing going.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, yes. They were from our group.

[Assistant] OK. Got it.

[User] So I went back. Well, that was one of the things that we did is we put in this demonstration orchard on this plot and it had probably ten varieties of mangoes on it. We, when we came back and when I went down there five years later, met the guardián on the property. There were no volunteers on the property any longer. But the INTA had interest in this property. But the guardián was there. He knew me, remembered me and everything. And so while we were there, he said, come see what I've got here. And we went to his house, looked on the floor, and he had a big old net full of the best mangoes. I mean, he. These guys didn't know what they had, but he knew what they had.

[Assistant] It must be very sweet, literally, to go back and enjoy the fruit of the trees that you had been involved in getting the whole thing going.

[User] It was exciting.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's incredible.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I went back. Well, that was one of the things that we did is we put in this demonstration orchard on this plot and it had probably ten varieties of mangoes on it. We, when we came back and when I went down there five years later, met the guardián on the property. There were no volunteers on the property any longer. But the INTA had interest in this property. But the guardián was there. He knew me, remembered me and everything. And so while we were there, he said, come see what I've got here. And we went to his house, looked on the floor, and he had a big old net full of the best mangoes. I mean, he. These guys didn't know what they had, but he knew what they had.

[Assistant] It must be very sweet, literally, to go back and enjoy the fruit of the trees that you had been involved in getting the whole thing going.

[User] It was exciting.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's incredible.

[User] That was exciting. In fact, got a picture of him and stuff like that, some of the good ones.

[Assistant] Well, let's jump back to your volunteer service. On toward, as you came toward the end of your second year, that would have been the time when you would terminate.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was exciting.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's incredible.

[User] That was exciting. In fact, got a picture of him and stuff like that, some of the good ones.

[Assistant] Well, let's jump back to your volunteer service. On toward, as you came toward the end of your second year, that would have been the time when you would terminate.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And what went on that got you into the third year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was exciting. In fact, got a picture of him and stuff like that, some of the good ones.

[Assistant] Well, let's jump back to your volunteer service. On toward, as you came toward the end of your second year, that would have been the time when you would terminate.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And what went on that got you into the third year?

[User] Well, the project I'm describing to you, another group came in, uh, June. Anyway, it was in, it was in the rainy season. And basically I stayed on so that I could introduce the new group to the. They were in June, they were coming in in June. It was raining. And that was when I just got through delivering the first or the second batch of mangoes or trees to the villages. And so we wanted to get another cycle in. I wanted to get another cycle in. And so I went and I worked with the new group and trained them about what we were doing, to talk to them about the whole mango process so.

[Assistant] Where did that happen?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And what went on that got you into the third year?

[User] Well, the project I'm describing to you, another group came in, uh, June. Anyway, it was in, it was in the rainy season. And basically I stayed on so that I could introduce the new group to the. They were in June, they were coming in in June. It was raining. And that was when I just got through delivering the first or the second batch of mangoes or trees to the villages. And so we wanted to get another cycle in. I wanted to get another cycle in. And so I went and I worked with the new group and trained them about what we were doing, to talk to them about the whole mango process so.

[Assistant] Where did that happen?

[User] It was in country. It was near, uh. It wasn't at Los.

[Assistant] Well, that's OK. But it was in country.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the project I'm describing to you, another group came in, uh, June. Anyway, it was in, it was in the rainy season. And basically I stayed on so that I could introduce the new group to the. They were in June, they were coming in in June. It was raining. And that was when I just got through delivering the first or the second batch of mangoes or trees to the villages. And so we wanted to get another cycle in. I wanted to get another cycle in. And so I went and I worked with the new group and trained them about what we were doing, to talk to them about the whole mango process so.

[Assistant] Where did that happen?

[User] It was in country. It was near, uh. It wasn't at Los.

[Assistant] Well, that's OK. But it was in country.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And again, were you working with the group that was assigned to the south?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was in country. It was near, uh. It wasn't at Los.

[Assistant] Well, that's OK. But it was in country.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And again, were you working with the group that was assigned to the south?

[User] Yes. Yes. And going in and replacing. Actually, they didn't replace my group. They must have been in a little earlier than that because they went into some of the other spots that were empty or vacant. And so I went and told them about, I got them involved in the project. And then when they got started, they wanted to know more about the groups that they were working with. They, their farmers wanted to know more about it. So I would go down and tell them about it.

[Assistant] Your Spanish must have been pretty good by then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, the spaces in the trees act like pinholes.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] And I'd say, come out and see this. And the guys were kind of, eh, you know, and they'd look at it. And what are you looking at? I said, look at this. And afterwards I remembered that. So that was, that was kind of neat.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But anyway, I stayed so we could get another cycle of workshops and get another cycle of fruit sales. And then somebody else I worked with, one of the guys from that group, and they took over.

[Assistant] And you continue to live in the village the third year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I'd say, come out and see this. And the guys were kind of, eh, you know, and they'd look at it. And what are you looking at? I said, look at this. And afterwards I remembered that. So that was, that was kind of neat.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But anyway, I stayed so we could get another cycle of workshops and get another cycle of fruit sales. And then somebody else I worked with, one of the guys from that group, and they took over.

[Assistant] And you continue to live in the village the third year?

[User] Yes, I did. Yeah.

[Assistant] You said that your parents came down to visit at one point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But anyway, I stayed so we could get another cycle of workshops and get another cycle of fruit sales. And then somebody else I worked with, one of the guys from that group, and they took over.

[Assistant] And you continue to live in the village the third year?

[User] Yes, I did. Yeah.

[Assistant] You said that your parents came down to visit at one point?

[User] Yes, they did.

[Assistant] When during the?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mexico City, yeah. But then they came in, in my second year, and they came down and they traveled a little bit in Guatemala and we visited a couple of sites. We went down along the coast over to Caballo Blanco, where one of my colleagues were housed there, went out to see what they were doing. I was delivering, I was probably delivering trays or something at the time.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then, um, they wanted to be, they came to my village then and met the folks and I had to be this translator for my folks.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And Don Hilario came over and Don Pedro came over and they came over and stayed to talk about how they were taking care of their daughter and how they were glad she was there. And I'm like, OK. I'll translate for you folks. But they were.

[Assistant] Just saying all kinds of nice things about you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then, um, they wanted to be, they came to my village then and met the folks and I had to be this translator for my folks.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And Don Hilario came over and Don Pedro came over and they came over and stayed to talk about how they were taking care of their daughter and how they were glad she was there. And I'm like, OK. I'll translate for you folks. But they were.

[Assistant] Just saying all kinds of nice things about you.

[User] Oh, yeah. And they were just, they were extremely pleased to meet these parents. And, you know, I think back on it right now and they were younger than I am now when they went down there.

[Assistant] And they worked their way through the culture shock and everything?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And Don Hilario came over and Don Pedro came over and they came over and stayed to talk about how they were taking care of their daughter and how they were glad she was there. And I'm like, OK. I'll translate for you folks. But they were.

[Assistant] Just saying all kinds of nice things about you.

[User] Oh, yeah. And they were just, they were extremely pleased to meet these parents. And, you know, I think back on it right now and they were younger than I am now when they went down there.

[Assistant] And they worked their way through the culture shock and everything?

[User] Yeah, my sister traveled with us too, and we went up, was there, and she was in high school, so she got a bang out of it because she would, um, had just enough Spanish to handle the markets and got excited about things. Then she came down. She and another friend came down the Christmas after I extended and did some traveling around by ourselves, and that's where I discovered my sister is crazy about fireworks and bombas and things like that cause that's, oh yeah.

[Assistant] So your third year was a continuation of what you were doing the second year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah. And they were just, they were extremely pleased to meet these parents. And, you know, I think back on it right now and they were younger than I am now when they went down there.

[Assistant] And they worked their way through the culture shock and everything?

[User] Yeah, my sister traveled with us too, and we went up, was there, and she was in high school, so she got a bang out of it because she would, um, had just enough Spanish to handle the markets and got excited about things. Then she came down. She and another friend came down the Christmas after I extended and did some traveling around by ourselves, and that's where I discovered my sister is crazy about fireworks and bombas and things like that cause that's, oh yeah.

[Assistant] So your third year was a continuation of what you were doing the second year?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And by the third year, was Peace Corps still secure in Guatemala or had there been?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, my sister traveled with us too, and we went up, was there, and she was in high school, so she got a bang out of it because she would, um, had just enough Spanish to handle the markets and got excited about things. Then she came down. She and another friend came down the Christmas after I extended and did some traveling around by ourselves, and that's where I discovered my sister is crazy about fireworks and bombas and things like that cause that's, oh yeah.

[Assistant] So your third year was a continuation of what you were doing the second year?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And by the third year, was Peace Corps still secure in Guatemala or had there been?

[User] They were secure. It was during our second year, the group of us were headed into Guatemala City, and we happened to stop at a restaurant where an American was a proprietor there. And he says, you better come and look at this. And so we went and looked at his television and said, well, I think we'll stay here tonight. Because that's when the ambassador was shot on the street.

[Assistant] OK. Was there other anti-American or civil unrest around that time, or was it just an individual act?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And by the third year, was Peace Corps still secure in Guatemala or had there been?

[User] They were secure. It was during our second year, the group of us were headed into Guatemala City, and we happened to stop at a restaurant where an American was a proprietor there. And he says, you better come and look at this. And so we went and looked at his television and said, well, I think we'll stay here tonight. Because that's when the ambassador was shot on the street.

[Assistant] OK. Was there other anti-American or civil unrest around that time, or was it just an individual act?

[User] It was just an, it was in the city. That was all. We never felt, um, during our time there, we never felt challenged in the, when we were out in our sites or even in the larger cities outside of Guatemala.

[Assistant] And Peace Corps wasn't giving you any indications of their being nervous?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were secure. It was during our second year, the group of us were headed into Guatemala City, and we happened to stop at a restaurant where an American was a proprietor there. And he says, you better come and look at this. And so we went and looked at his television and said, well, I think we'll stay here tonight. Because that's when the ambassador was shot on the street.

[Assistant] OK. Was there other anti-American or civil unrest around that time, or was it just an individual act?

[User] It was just an, it was in the city. That was all. We never felt, um, during our time there, we never felt challenged in the, when we were out in our sites or even in the larger cities outside of Guatemala.

[Assistant] And Peace Corps wasn't giving you any indications of their being nervous?

[User] Um. We were told, we were told to, if there was anything, to look for telegrams and they'd tell us what we needed, if we needed to do something. We didn't have, I don't recall us having like an evacuation plan or anything like that.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. That came later. Coming to the end of the third year, did you think maybe you'd go for four or where were you at?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was just an, it was in the city. That was all. We never felt, um, during our time there, we never felt challenged in the, when we were out in our sites or even in the larger cities outside of Guatemala.

[Assistant] And Peace Corps wasn't giving you any indications of their being nervous?

[User] Um. We were told, we were told to, if there was anything, to look for telegrams and they'd tell us what we needed, if we needed to do something. We didn't have, I don't recall us having like an evacuation plan or anything like that.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. That came later. Coming to the end of the third year, did you think maybe you'd go for four or where were you at?

[User] Oh, what was I was doing? OK. Well, I was spending less and less time, of course, in the village and another group came in because. Yeah. And I was replaced in the village.

[Assistant] Did you meet your replacement?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. We were told, we were told to, if there was anything, to look for telegrams and they'd tell us what we needed, if we needed to do something. We didn't have, I don't recall us having like an evacuation plan or anything like that.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. That came later. Coming to the end of the third year, did you think maybe you'd go for four or where were you at?

[User] Oh, what was I was doing? OK. Well, I was spending less and less time, of course, in the village and another group came in because. Yeah. And I was replaced in the village.

[Assistant] Did you meet your replacement?

[User] Yes, I did. I did.

[Assistant] Did she or he inherit your house?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, what was I was doing? OK. Well, I was spending less and less time, of course, in the village and another group came in because. Yeah. And I was replaced in the village.

[Assistant] Did you meet your replacement?

[User] Yes, I did. I did.

[Assistant] Did she or he inherit your house?

[User] He inherited my house. And um, I don't remember what his, whether it was still rural development or just what his responsibilities were. I seem to be, you know, got the trees on the ground and distributed that year. And I had become more acquainted with some other volunteers for, that were in a fisheries project. So I had an opportunity to explore the countryside where they were.

[Assistant] Just going to encourage them or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I did. I did.

[Assistant] Did she or he inherit your house?

[User] He inherited my house. And um, I don't remember what his, whether it was still rural development or just what his responsibilities were. I seem to be, you know, got the trees on the ground and distributed that year. And I had become more acquainted with some other volunteers for, that were in a fisheries project. So I had an opportunity to explore the countryside where they were.

[Assistant] Just going to encourage them or?

[User] To encourage them, to see what the tropics, the agricultural stuff was around the area. But also it was, I got probably a little bit more social.

[Assistant] So you were sort of also in the semi staff position. I mean, clearly you just weren't a volunteer in a village.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He inherited my house. And um, I don't remember what his, whether it was still rural development or just what his responsibilities were. I seem to be, you know, got the trees on the ground and distributed that year. And I had become more acquainted with some other volunteers for, that were in a fisheries project. So I had an opportunity to explore the countryside where they were.

[Assistant] Just going to encourage them or?

[User] To encourage them, to see what the tropics, the agricultural stuff was around the area. But also it was, I got probably a little bit more social.

[Assistant] So you were sort of also in the semi staff position. I mean, clearly you just weren't a volunteer in a village.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Although I don't know if that was recognized in your pay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] To encourage them, to see what the tropics, the agricultural stuff was around the area. But also it was, I got probably a little bit more social.

[Assistant] So you were sort of also in the semi staff position. I mean, clearly you just weren't a volunteer in a village.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Although I don't know if that was recognized in your pay.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Or status. OK.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Although I don't know if that was recognized in your pay.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Or status. OK.

[User] Which was fine.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what was your plan then, as the end of the service, what were you going to do next?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Or status. OK.

[User] Which was fine.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what was your plan then, as the end of the service, what were you going to do next?

[User] I had no idea.

[Assistant] Did anyone from Peace Corps approach you and ask if you were interested in a staff position?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I could, I mean, you met my regional supervisor.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] Uh, Dwight Walker.

[Assistant] Right.

[User]
And so, um, he had moved off of this, off the coast by the middle of my third year because some of his responsibilities had changed. And he was also very interested in his now wife. So they had property up in Guatemala City. That's where they were. Anyway, so I think he would have encouraged me, but I don't recall looking at that in particular. I actually ran into a group of folks from California. Cal Poly had a USAID grant for some extension work in Guatemala. And they had a cadre of their professors working with some extension agents in things like strawberry development, things like that, and some other community activities.

I met some of those folks and one of those guys, Bob McCullough, saw the things that we're doing and he actually came down to our site, the demonstration plot site in La Maquina, and was there for an event and saw some of the things that we were doing. And then I went with him out to Barrios, to another volunteer site, and we looked at the potential for other fruit development projects out there. He saw what I was doing and some of the things that happened, and he was the one who said, maybe you should look at being an ag teacher when you get back. By the way, the head of agricultural education for the state of California is going to be in town, is going to be visiting at my house next week. You come and visit. And at that time.

[Assistant] This was in Guatemala?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
And so, um, he had moved off of this, off the coast by the middle of my third year because some of his responsibilities had changed. And he was also very interested in his now wife. So they had property up in Guatemala City. That's where they were. Anyway, so I think he would have encouraged me, but I don't recall looking at that in particular. I actually ran into a group of folks from California. Cal Poly had a USAID grant for some extension work in Guatemala. And they had a cadre of their professors working with some extension agents in things like strawberry development, things like that, and some other community activities.

I met some of those folks and one of those guys, Bob McCullough, saw the things that we're doing and he actually came down to our site, the demonstration plot site in La Maquina, and was there for an event and saw some of the things that we were doing. And then I went with him out to Barrios, to another volunteer site, and we looked at the potential for other fruit development projects out there. He saw what I was doing and some of the things that happened, and he was the one who said, maybe you should look at being an ag teacher when you get back. By the way, the head of agricultural education for the state of California is going to be in town, is going to be visiting at my house next week. You come and visit. And at that time.

[Assistant] This was in Guatemala?

[User] In Guatemala. And at that time, in order to get into the teacher preparation program for ag ed, you had to have an interview with state staff. And so I had my interview in Guatemala with Don Wilson.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then came back. I targeted getting back so I could be home for a friend's wedding. She was married, I came back on the 26th of August, she got married on the 29th. On the 2nd of September, I was in a teacher preparation program at UC Davis.

[Assistant] Leading toward a master's?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Guatemala. And at that time, in order to get into the teacher preparation program for ag ed, you had to have an interview with state staff. And so I had my interview in Guatemala with Don Wilson.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then came back. I targeted getting back so I could be home for a friend's wedding. She was married, I came back on the 26th of August, she got married on the 29th. On the 2nd of September, I was in a teacher preparation program at UC Davis.

[Assistant] Leading toward a master's?

[User] Toward a credential.

[Assistant] Oh, but not necessarily a master's.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then came back. I targeted getting back so I could be home for a friend's wedding. She was married, I came back on the 26th of August, she got married on the 29th. On the 2nd of September, I was in a teacher preparation program at UC Davis.

[Assistant] Leading toward a master's?

[User] Toward a credential.

[Assistant] Oh, but not necessarily a master's.

[User] Not necessarily a master's. And on the 10th of September, I was student teaching in Modesto.

[Assistant] Things happen fast. So at that point, you, what you want to do is become an ag teacher.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Toward a credential.

[Assistant] Oh, but not necessarily a master's.

[User] Not necessarily a master's. And on the 10th of September, I was student teaching in Modesto.

[Assistant] Things happen fast. So at that point, you, what you want to do is become an ag teacher.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And that would be within the state of California.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not necessarily a master's. And on the 10th of September, I was student teaching in Modesto.

[Assistant] Things happen fast. So at that point, you, what you want to do is become an ag teacher.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And that would be within the state of California.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Is that mostly secondary level?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And that would be within the state of California.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Is that mostly secondary level?

[User] Yes, it is.

[Assistant] It would be, OK. And is that in fact what happened?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Is that mostly secondary level?

[User] Yes, it is.

[Assistant] It would be, OK. And is that in fact what happened?

[User] Yes. Yeah.

[Assistant] Uh, over the first two to three years after you came back, what kind of contact did you maintain with friends or people in Guatemala?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it is.

[Assistant] It would be, OK. And is that in fact what happened?

[User] Yes. Yeah.

[Assistant] Uh, over the first two to three years after you came back, what kind of contact did you maintain with friends or people in Guatemala?

[User] Um, actually, I had several letters in that first four or five years with folks in Guatemala, with the family, Hilario and his son. Ah, which one was it? The second son is the one that went on to become a social worker. Um. Not too much other contact, except that when I went back five years later, we went right down and then I wanted to keep up some more contact but.

[Assistant] What prompted the trip after five years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yeah.

[Assistant] Uh, over the first two to three years after you came back, what kind of contact did you maintain with friends or people in Guatemala?

[User] Um, actually, I had several letters in that first four or five years with folks in Guatemala, with the family, Hilario and his son. Ah, which one was it? The second son is the one that went on to become a social worker. Um. Not too much other contact, except that when I went back five years later, we went right down and then I wanted to keep up some more contact but.

[Assistant] What prompted the trip after five years?

[User] Well, I ran into this friend of mine who went in the Peace Corps same time I did, but went to Venezuela. Had been on a rafting trip with a couple of folks and they said that they wanted to travel in South America and we got to be good friends. And they had a couple of friends that here. And we put together this three week trip.

[Assistant] With you as the guide sort of?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I ran into this friend of mine who went in the Peace Corps same time I did, but went to Venezuela. Had been on a rafting trip with a couple of folks and they said that they wanted to travel in South America and we got to be good friends. And they had a couple of friends that here. And we put together this three week trip.

[Assistant] With you as the guide sort of?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. OK.

[User] And then I went on from there. I went down to Costa Rica to visit some folks before I came home.

[Assistant] People also talking about the third goal of the Peace Corps, you know, coming back and trying to help inform our community friends about the Third World or the other parts of the world.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. OK.

[User] And then I went on from there. I went down to Costa Rica to visit some folks before I came home.

[Assistant] People also talking about the third goal of the Peace Corps, you know, coming back and trying to help inform our community friends about the Third World or the other parts of the world.

[User] Hm hmm.

[Assistant] Were you able to do much of that through the first five, six years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hm hmm.

[Assistant] Were you able to do much of that through the first five, six years?

[User] Uh, I did in a lot of ways because those stories were still so ripe in my head. And I was teaching in Modesto and there were a couple of kids that were new arrivals from Mexico. And so I was speaking Spanish to those children. I also had a tough time with English because there were words that I was more familiar with in Spanish that described more what I wanted to talk about than, oh, let's go out to the farm. The idea of going out to the campo is in my mind, it means that you're getting out of town and that's what I wanted to say.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So. I was invited. When they knew I was in, had been in Guatemala and I had artifacts and things, I was invited by several different ag teachers to come and talk with their kids about agriculture in Guatemala. And so I have a really pretty extensive slideshow that shows mangoes and cashews and corn planting and roofing and stuff like that.

[Assistant] What's been your involvement through the years? It's now been quite a few years.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I've been, well, I got involved with the returned Peace Corps volunteers here in Sacramento when they first organized, I think around year 25.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] So I participated in a couple of the national conferences.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] I, within our organization, the Sacramento Returned, Sacramento Valley Returned Peace Corps Volunteers, I've taken on, been a part of the board of directors and I have taken on specific projects in that activity, volunteer activities within or volunteer community development activities in Sacramento area has been kind of my focus, although I have been available for talking to schools and classes and helping other people make those connections with various. Because of my background and my connections in education, if somebody wants to know something about Ghana, I can look up and find somebody who's been there.

[Assistant] Any further trips to Guatemala?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I participated in a couple of the national conferences.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] I, within our organization, the Sacramento Returned, Sacramento Valley Returned Peace Corps Volunteers, I've taken on, been a part of the board of directors and I have taken on specific projects in that activity, volunteer activities within or volunteer community development activities in Sacramento area has been kind of my focus, although I have been available for talking to schools and classes and helping other people make those connections with various. Because of my background and my connections in education, if somebody wants to know something about Ghana, I can look up and find somebody who's been there.

[Assistant] Any further trips to Guatemala?

[User] I haven't. I haven't been. I want to, but I'm a little afraid. I mean, it's been 30 years and the people that I, that I knew.

[Assistant] Go back, it's worth it. Anything else you'd like to include in the interview?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I haven't. I haven't been. I want to, but I'm a little afraid. I mean, it's been 30 years and the people that I, that I knew.

[Assistant] Go back, it's worth it. Anything else you'd like to include in the interview?

[User] Um. I'll tell you, actually getting re, getting back with my colleagues from Guatemala has been exciting.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And so we've had two reunions, three reunions, since we've been back. One in Colorado. One here on the West Coast. And one on the East Coast. And we'll have another one in three years up in Seattle.

[Assistant] And that's the group that was, the Ghana, the Guatemala IX group.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. I'll tell you, actually getting re, getting back with my colleagues from Guatemala has been exciting.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And so we've had two reunions, three reunions, since we've been back. One in Colorado. One here on the West Coast. And one on the East Coast. And we'll have another one in three years up in Seattle.

[Assistant] And that's the group that was, the Ghana, the Guatemala IX group.

[User] Yes, the Guatemala nine group.

[Assistant] Yeah. That's great.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so we've had two reunions, three reunions, since we've been back. One in Colorado. One here on the West Coast. And one on the East Coast. And we'll have another one in three years up in Seattle.

[Assistant] And that's the group that was, the Ghana, the Guatemala IX group.

[User] Yes, the Guatemala nine group.

[Assistant] Yeah. That's great.

[User] And it has included some of the staff members.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. We had LADEE operating and MAVEN operating and then, “Oh, we’re going to be operating SAM that day, so let’s put out a little press release that we got three mass spectrometers operating all on one day.”\n\n One exciting thing about MAVEN, early in the mission, was we had arrived at Mars very shortly before Comet Siding Spring [C/2013 A1] came barreling in from the outer solar system and just missed Mars. It came very close, but the coma—the gas and dust that surrounds the nucleus of the comet—came slamming into the atmosphere. The spacecraft that were orbiting Mars were being very careful to turn things off and basically be away from where they expected the action to be.\n\n So we were turned off, but when we turned on very shortly after the comet came by we measured ions in the atmosphere and saw all these metal ions. We saw 11 metal ions in pretty high abundance. What had happened is these very small dust particles associated with the comet had gone slamming into the atmosphere and ablated with the very high velocity of them hitting the atmosphere. If you were on Mars you’d probably see shooting stars all over the place. So we essentially were measuring the composition of a comet while we were orbiting Mars, by measuring all of these metal ions. It was really pretty exciting result.

[Assistant] A lot of exciting work all happening at the same time.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] When did you become the Director of the Solar System Exploration Division?

[User] I think December 2015. I’ve been here not quite two years. Yes, this December it’ll be two years.

[Assistant] In proposing these missions and these instruments to go on missions, there’s always a budget issue. As you mentioned, you propose and then Congress gets to decide what’s going on. Talk about that process. In your position, and also as the Director of the Solar System Exploration Division, I imagine you have more dealings with budgets and that sort of thing. Talk about the budget process, and maybe some of the successes you’ve had.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Still going, yes.

[Assistant]
I was going to ask Rebecca if she had anything.

I’ve just got one. Is there a project you really would like to do, but may never get a chance to? What’s your dream project that you really would like to work on?

[User] Well, I think now I’m in a mode of trying to help the junior scientists be successful on their projects. What I’d like to see that builds on the skills that we’ve developed at Goddard, and the instruments we’ve built would be exploring an icy moon, Enceladus or Europa, something like that. So we work away on getting ready for that, and getting the right scientist to lead that. I try and help them as much as I can.

[Assistant] What do you look for, that you’ll know that that’s the scientist that’s going to be able to take that project forward?

[User] Yes. Leadership, ability to motivate people and get engineers, who don’t necessarily understand the science, excited about the science. Efficiency, and I guess a vision for what might be done in these exciting exploration experiments.

[Assistant] Are those skills that you can teach someone, or is that something in their personality that helps them create that environment or others to become part of that team?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think now I’m in a mode of trying to help the junior scientists be successful on their projects. What I’d like to see that builds on the skills that we’ve developed at Goddard, and the instruments we’ve built would be exploring an icy moon, Enceladus or Europa, something like that. So we work away on getting ready for that, and getting the right scientist to lead that. I try and help them as much as I can.

[Assistant] What do you look for, that you’ll know that that’s the scientist that’s going to be able to take that project forward?

[User] Yes. Leadership, ability to motivate people and get engineers, who don’t necessarily understand the science, excited about the science. Efficiency, and I guess a vision for what might be done in these exciting exploration experiments.

[Assistant] Are those skills that you can teach someone, or is that something in their personality that helps them create that environment or others to become part of that team?

[User] I think it’s some of both. There are people that naturally have leadership talent, but then NASA, and even Goddard, has kind of their own culture. Certainly trying to help people understand the culture and how best to function in this environment is something I can—after being here since 1980—something I can help them with.

[Assistant] And do you feel that the type of career that you have, is that still available for other people who are interested in doing what you love?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Leadership, ability to motivate people and get engineers, who don’t necessarily understand the science, excited about the science. Efficiency, and I guess a vision for what might be done in these exciting exploration experiments.

[Assistant] Are those skills that you can teach someone, or is that something in their personality that helps them create that environment or others to become part of that team?

[User] I think it’s some of both. There are people that naturally have leadership talent, but then NASA, and even Goddard, has kind of their own culture. Certainly trying to help people understand the culture and how best to function in this environment is something I can—after being here since 1980—something I can help them with.

[Assistant] And do you feel that the type of career that you have, is that still available for other people who are interested in doing what you love?

[User] Yes, I think so. It gets more difficult as we go further and further out in the solar system. Mars and Venus are nice because you can get to them in a few short years. In other words, we land in 2012 on Mars and started doing science. We really started the project in 2005, so seven years later there we are. Of course, I’d started four years earlier trying to get ready for it. But in some of these outer solar system missions, it depends a little bit on what rocketry NASA decides to use for these missions. On the low-end rockets, it can take a long time. We’re looking at Enceladus missions now, for example, that would get there in the mid-’30s. If they were started this year, they would get there in the mid-’30s.\n\n That’s where we look for teams that have a combination of experienced people and junior people who can be mentored and move into leadership roles. When I came to Goddard, most of the principal investigators on the Galileo probe were approaching retirement age, or would retire shortly thereafter, so understanding how experience and leadership gets passed on, I think, is very important.

[Assistant] Anything else that you wanted to mention before we go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I was in college then and of course I hadn't heard of the Peace Corps because it hadn't got started till '61. But I had been, my father was a career Army officer and all of my male relatives seem to have been in the Army or Marines or one branch of the service or the other. So I moved around a lot and I really enjoyed traveling. And when the Peace Corps started, I thought, that sounds like an interesting way to travel, and maybe I'll be able to do something that would help other people somewhere else, even though I really wasn't a qualified finish carpenter or mathematician or.

[Assistant] Or where were you physically in '61, say?

[User] University of Maryland in College Park, Maryland, outside of D.C.

[Assistant] Studying?

[User] My major was English, and minor was psychology.

[Assistant] OK. And you had grown up with, had you spent time overseas?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] University of Maryland in College Park, Maryland, outside of D.C.

[Assistant] Studying?

[User] My major was English, and minor was psychology.

[Assistant] OK. And you had grown up with, had you spent time overseas?

[User] We lived in Japan when I was, right after the Second World War, from '48 to '50. We lived in Japan. And the rest of the time we'd moved around the United States. I don't know how many, I think I went to more than 12 schools in 12 years. And you know, my mother, however, was one of these people who tells her children, it's great. We're going to go to this great new place and you'll meet great new people. And everything will be interesting and fascinating, and you'll learn lots of stuff and you can always keep in touch with your friends by writing and we'll eventually be stationed at an Army post again with the same friends. And that happened. And to me, it was wonderful. There were a lot of Army wives who were very negative about the ordeal of having to pack up all your belongings time after time and get things broken and move the kids to new schools. But a lot of what you grow up with is influenced by the way your parents present it to you, I think.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you must have developed the skill of moving into new situations and meeting people.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My major was English, and minor was psychology.

[Assistant] OK. And you had grown up with, had you spent time overseas?

[User] We lived in Japan when I was, right after the Second World War, from '48 to '50. We lived in Japan. And the rest of the time we'd moved around the United States. I don't know how many, I think I went to more than 12 schools in 12 years. And you know, my mother, however, was one of these people who tells her children, it's great. We're going to go to this great new place and you'll meet great new people. And everything will be interesting and fascinating, and you'll learn lots of stuff and you can always keep in touch with your friends by writing and we'll eventually be stationed at an Army post again with the same friends. And that happened. And to me, it was wonderful. There were a lot of Army wives who were very negative about the ordeal of having to pack up all your belongings time after time and get things broken and move the kids to new schools. But a lot of what you grow up with is influenced by the way your parents present it to you, I think.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you must have developed the skill of moving into new situations and meeting people.

[User] I suppose so, yeah.

[Assistant] Were you very shy or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We lived in Japan when I was, right after the Second World War, from '48 to '50. We lived in Japan. And the rest of the time we'd moved around the United States. I don't know how many, I think I went to more than 12 schools in 12 years. And you know, my mother, however, was one of these people who tells her children, it's great. We're going to go to this great new place and you'll meet great new people. And everything will be interesting and fascinating, and you'll learn lots of stuff and you can always keep in touch with your friends by writing and we'll eventually be stationed at an Army post again with the same friends. And that happened. And to me, it was wonderful. There were a lot of Army wives who were very negative about the ordeal of having to pack up all your belongings time after time and get things broken and move the kids to new schools. But a lot of what you grow up with is influenced by the way your parents present it to you, I think.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you must have developed the skill of moving into new situations and meeting people.

[User] I suppose so, yeah.

[Assistant] Were you very shy or?

[User] I don't know how to describe myself. No, I'd say I was fairly outgoing at first in new situations. I guess I would sit back and take stock of what was going on before I would. I do not like to stand and never have liked to stand up in front of other people and make announcements. Now I usually arrange to have somebody else do that if it needs to be done. But I am outgoing and like other people and meet people easily.

[Assistant] So you went, you started. You were attending University of Maryland.