[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Ah. I think Trudy and the Carlins and other people had a different idea. Right. If you can’t find the Manifesto then I’ll go into my philosophy on the Regional Archives at length but not until we do the second round.

[Assistant] Okay. I know Meg was on vacation and she said she’s still looking for it but she didn’t know if she could find it.

[User] Well, if she doesn't have it, Sue might. I don’t know.

[Assistant] Okay. I'll reach out to Sue again and see. By the way, I won't be because I won't be in DC but John Carlin and his wife will be coming in for an interview on July 13 at Archives I and I believe Jessie is going to be interviewing.

[User] Did you see the citation I sent you for the Washington Post on December 19, 1997?

[Assistant] Yes. [Chuckling] Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was the Archivist and all the office heads and the budget people and Steve Hannestad and I facilitated it about what to do about reimbursable services for Records Centers especially with regard to the courts. And a lot of decisions got made in that meeting. But in the middle of that meeting Carlin got called out by his secretary and he came back and Lew went out, Lew Bellardo.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And when they came back, the whole tone of the meeting just froze. And we later found out that what happened when they were called out was for the Post reporter to tell them what she was going to write.

[Assistant] Interesting.

[User] But there had been a lot of gossip about the triangle for a long time. And all the people currently employed in the Archives, if you want somebody to tell you about that, Debra Wall is the person who knows ‘cause she was, I think, she was to some extent Lynn’s confidant.

[Assistant] I don't know how much of that wants to be on the record.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And when they came back, the whole tone of the meeting just froze. And we later found out that what happened when they were called out was for the Post reporter to tell them what she was going to write.

[Assistant] Interesting.

[User] But there had been a lot of gossip about the triangle for a long time. And all the people currently employed in the Archives, if you want somebody to tell you about that, Debra Wall is the person who knows ‘cause she was, I think, she was to some extent Lynn’s confidant.

[Assistant] I don't know how much of that wants to be on the record.

[User] [Laughing] Well I don’t think you want that one on the record.

[Assistant]
Deb is a very much more effervescent and I think she has a much more positive outlook. I don’t know if she wants to get into that. [Laughing].

That’s very funny. Yeah. Carlin gave me a list of people, Lew Bellardo was on there. Ren Cahoon. Tom Mayer and a few others that I should interview. Lew Bellardo hasn’t responded to three emails that I sent so I don’t know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But there had been a lot of gossip about the triangle for a long time. And all the people currently employed in the Archives, if you want somebody to tell you about that, Debra Wall is the person who knows ‘cause she was, I think, she was to some extent Lynn’s confidant.

[Assistant] I don't know how much of that wants to be on the record.

[User] [Laughing] Well I don’t think you want that one on the record.

[Assistant]
Deb is a very much more effervescent and I think she has a much more positive outlook. I don’t know if she wants to get into that. [Laughing].

That’s very funny. Yeah. Carlin gave me a list of people, Lew Bellardo was on there. Ren Cahoon. Tom Mayer and a few others that I should interview. Lew Bellardo hasn’t responded to three emails that I sent so I don’t know.

[User] Is Michael Kurtz on your list?

[Assistant] He had an interview, I believe, I didn’t do it but he was interviewed.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] [Laughing] Well I don’t think you want that one on the record.

[Assistant]
Deb is a very much more effervescent and I think she has a much more positive outlook. I don’t know if she wants to get into that. [Laughing].

That’s very funny. Yeah. Carlin gave me a list of people, Lew Bellardo was on there. Ren Cahoon. Tom Mayer and a few others that I should interview. Lew Bellardo hasn’t responded to three emails that I sent so I don’t know.

[User] Is Michael Kurtz on your list?

[Assistant] He had an interview, I believe, I didn’t do it but he was interviewed.

[User] Well, I told you Frosty Williams was probably my worst boss. I think probably like Kurtz is next to the worst.

[Assistant] Oh, really? Yeah. I hear good and bad things about Kurtz.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Is Michael Kurtz on your list?

[Assistant] He had an interview, I believe, I didn’t do it but he was interviewed.

[User] Well, I told you Frosty Williams was probably my worst boss. I think probably like Kurtz is next to the worst.

[Assistant] Oh, really? Yeah. I hear good and bad things about Kurtz.

[User] I think I also have a Kurtz knife in my back.

[Assistant] You’ve got a lot of knives in your back.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I told you Frosty Williams was probably my worst boss. I think probably like Kurtz is next to the worst.

[Assistant] Oh, really? Yeah. I hear good and bad things about Kurtz.

[User] I think I also have a Kurtz knife in my back.

[Assistant] You’ve got a lot of knives in your back.

[User] [Laughing].

[Assistant] But I don’t view that and this is just my opinion, I don’t view that as a bad thing. I mean it may have ended up being a bad thing that happened to you but I think it's kind of a badge of honor to be able to not be beloved by your superiors and be well liked by your peers. And I think that that’s pretty important.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think I also have a Kurtz knife in my back.

[Assistant] You’ve got a lot of knives in your back.

[User] [Laughing].

[Assistant] But I don’t view that and this is just my opinion, I don’t view that as a bad thing. I mean it may have ended up being a bad thing that happened to you but I think it's kind of a badge of honor to be able to not be beloved by your superiors and be well liked by your peers. And I think that that’s pretty important.

[User] Well I think I had a management vision that differs from many of the people who’ve been my bosses over the years. And we can talk about that more when we talk about the second Archives period but I haven’t really paid any attention to the Archives or how it’s managed for the last decade because I don't think it’s going in the direction I think it should have.

[Assistant] Well there’s a big concern that the Regional Archives are being eliminated eventually. And it’s unfortunate but that seems to be how they’re viewing it and the people in the regions are worried about that. And why do I say that? Well it seems like outreach has dissipated at some of the regions to a point where they’re told not to perform any more outreach programs and things like that seem to be a big issue.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well I think I had a management vision that differs from many of the people who’ve been my bosses over the years. And we can talk about that more when we talk about the second Archives period but I haven’t really paid any attention to the Archives or how it’s managed for the last decade because I don't think it’s going in the direction I think it should have.

[Assistant] Well there’s a big concern that the Regional Archives are being eliminated eventually. And it’s unfortunate but that seems to be how they’re viewing it and the people in the regions are worried about that. And why do I say that? Well it seems like outreach has dissipated at some of the regions to a point where they’re told not to perform any more outreach programs and things like that seem to be a big issue.

[User] Well, we need to talk about outreach on my watch then. And we also need to talk about genealogists.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Genealogists vote, historians don’t.

[Assistant] Very true. [Laughter]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] If it weren’t for genealogists we’d still be in GSA.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Historians were little help. Genealogists were great help and the Archives has turned its back on the genealogical community. That’s the next conversation though probably.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Well, send me a list of names and chew over what I sent you a little bit and then let’s not set another time yet but wait a day or two.

[Assistant] Okay. And I’ll correspond and get that information to you. All right, thank you John.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hello. I'm glad to greet everybody who is with us right now and watching us.

[Assistant] Dr. Tsygankov, you have a Ph.D. in engineering. Can you tell us what universities you attended in Russia?

[User] I graduated from the Technological Institute in the city of Kiev. That's in Ukraine. Then I got my Ph.D. from the Moscow Aviation Institute, and my doctorate degree I got at the Kharkov Aviation Institute.

[Assistant] What part of Russia did you live when you were growing up, and how was life in Russia then compared to now?

[User] I was born and grew up in the Soviet Union and Ukraine, in the city of Kiev, and that's the city where I grew up, and that's where I attended schools, and that's where I worked. I was the designer of the first welding unit tested in orbit, in the Scientific Institute of Paton. After that, they invited me to work for RSC [Rocket Space Corporation] Energia in Moscow.

[Assistant] How long have you worked at RSC Energia and what is your job title?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I graduated from the Technological Institute in the city of Kiev. That's in Ukraine. Then I got my Ph.D. from the Moscow Aviation Institute, and my doctorate degree I got at the Kharkov Aviation Institute.

[Assistant] What part of Russia did you live when you were growing up, and how was life in Russia then compared to now?

[User] I was born and grew up in the Soviet Union and Ukraine, in the city of Kiev, and that's the city where I grew up, and that's where I attended schools, and that's where I worked. I was the designer of the first welding unit tested in orbit, in the Scientific Institute of Paton. After that, they invited me to work for RSC [Rocket Space Corporation] Energia in Moscow.

[Assistant] How long have you worked at RSC Energia and what is your job title?

[User] I've worked for Energia since 1969. I'm the manager of the department which is responsible for the IVA [Intravehicular Activity] and EVA technical support.

[Assistant] Does your organization write the maintenance procedures that they perform, and do they perform the training of the maintenance tasks for the crew?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was born and grew up in the Soviet Union and Ukraine, in the city of Kiev, and that's the city where I grew up, and that's where I attended schools, and that's where I worked. I was the designer of the first welding unit tested in orbit, in the Scientific Institute of Paton. After that, they invited me to work for RSC [Rocket Space Corporation] Energia in Moscow.

[Assistant] How long have you worked at RSC Energia and what is your job title?

[User] I've worked for Energia since 1969. I'm the manager of the department which is responsible for the IVA [Intravehicular Activity] and EVA technical support.

[Assistant] Does your organization write the maintenance procedures that they perform, and do they perform the training of the maintenance tasks for the crew?

[User] This is the direct responsibility of my department, of my office, to develop the checklist, the on-board communication maintenance activity on the EVA and IVA. We conduct all the training, both at Energia, the crew training, as well as different other organizations that we visit with the crew members, of course, at our facility as well as at the cosmonaut training facility. And by the way, the training on the tools for the EVA for the crew of Mr. Shepherd, they've already completed in our department.

[Assistant] Tell us a little bit about the IVA and EVA tools on the Mir, the quantity, their stored location, the IVA workbench.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's true.

[Assistant] How much support does your group provide to the Russian MCC [Mission Control Center], the TsUP, during the Mir EVA maintenance?

[User] For each of the EVAs, in my office we have specialists, we have experts who were and are responsible for that particular operation, for that particular task, from the time of the development of that EVA through testing, through training and implementation of that EVA in space. That person is at all times at the MCC Moscow. He is one of those few guys who is allowed to directly communicate with the crew. Always my concern—I'm always worried so this guy won't get hurt or won't get sick, and get there in time, because otherwise I'm the guy who's sitting there and having direct communication with the crew members.\n\n Maybe you'll be surprised, but we try not to interfere with the crew operation, especially during the communication session. Sometimes there are too many people on the ground that would like to talk and would like to ask different questions, so we talk to them only when they ask us, only if he doesn't understand something or some situations, some surprises. Of course we help them, but we try to limit ourselves, not to interfere.\n\n There's a third crew member on board who is assigned to perform certain functions, so they can get help and assistance from us at any time, and if they're outside the range of visibility, they work by himself, but if there are any major surprises, any situations, they have the instructions not to do anything by themselves, wait till the next orbit, till the next radio session. That's how we organize all that. And, of course, prior to the EVA we discuss everything in great details with the crew members, and we conduct even on-board training with them.

[Assistant] I'd like to ask him a couple of questions that aren't on the list.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant] Can you tell us and the audience about your welding unit that you designed, that you mentioned earlier?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. That's a restraint. I'm not the only author of this. There is one guy from Hong Kong here. So we together came up with this idea so whenever you need to write, you can move it here and write. You can try it, write, and fix it this way. Okay?\n\n Very high technology. High tech. It's one guy, that Chinese man from Hong Kong, helped me to install the ring on certain different tools.

[Assistant] The final question before we get kicked out of our room. Of your almost thirty years in the space program, what would be your greatest accomplishment or your most memorable moment?

[User] Well, it's not just an achievement; it's a bunch of achievements put together. Well, on a few occasions, yes, we managed to save Space Station Mir using our EVAs, using our tools. So I think that's an achievement as well. So, in the end I'd like to say the spacecrafts like Space Lab, Salyut, Mir, Shuttle maintenance and the EVA helped to repair, to save the program in general, but in principle, yes, you could do without it. The program would have been a little bit smaller program, fewer things to accomplish, but nothing drastic.\n\n But ISS, by its essence, by its concept, cannot be built, cannot be created, without the EVA. We will build it up in space. It's a lot like they now build ships. They put it on the water and then they start to build up. Same thing with the station. So there should be an entirely different approach to EVA and the maintenance and other issues. Otherwise, there won't be an International Space Station without it, the way it has been designed initially.

[Assistant]
I agree.

What's your favorite beer?

[User] Milk.

[Assistant] Thank you. [Laughter]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The winter of 2013 is when I was accepted.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And I was originally supposed to go to. I got my assignment in May and I was scheduled to go to Kenya in September. And then five days before I was supposed to leave to go to Kenya, there was a terrorist attack on the mall in Nairobi.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] So I got a phone call that said you're still in the Peace Corps, but you're not going to Kenya.

[Assistant] Wow. Five days.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I picked to go to Guinea in November.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And then I went.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. So tell me about, like you said, you grew up in Missouri.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then I went.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. So tell me about, like you said, you grew up in Missouri.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Tell me about growing up. Was there anything while you were young that you think might have made you want to go work internationally or where you even heard about the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Tell me about growing up. Was there anything while you were young that you think might have made you want to go work internationally or where you even heard about the Peace Corps?

[User] I can't tell you where I heard about. I have no idea. My older sister is a huge influence on my life. She's six years older than I am and she started, I think, before, before I decided to the Peace Corps, she was an international backpacking guide for students often from East Coast schools. But she would take them to different countries because she's an experienced backpacker and experience guiding. And I thought that it would be cool to go international. Yeah. So I think that that's the biggest influence. Also of note, my parents and my family moved a bunch before we stopped in Missouri. And so it's not that Missouri doesn't feel like home, but it's also like, it's not maybe doesn't have as strong of ties to keep me there.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Because we just moved all the time.

[Assistant] So moving is kind of what you did.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because we just moved all the time.

[Assistant] So moving is kind of what you did.

[User] It's kind of what we did. It's like a little deceiving to say that because I only moved once, because I was three. So I don't really feel that. But like our extended family isn't in Missouri, our like, there isn't. Like I have a long history there, but my siblings were all born in different states and my parents are from different states. So we just don't have that much that holds us there. And it just almost feels like traveling and wandering is like in our blood.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So Peace Corps sounded like a great option.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, perfect. So tell me about. You finally decided on November.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's kind of what we did. It's like a little deceiving to say that because I only moved once, because I was three. So I don't really feel that. But like our extended family isn't in Missouri, our like, there isn't. Like I have a long history there, but my siblings were all born in different states and my parents are from different states. So we just don't have that much that holds us there. And it just almost feels like traveling and wandering is like in our blood.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So Peace Corps sounded like a great option.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, perfect. So tell me about. You finally decided on November.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And you got on a plane?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So Peace Corps sounded like a great option.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, perfect. So tell me about. You finally decided on November.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And you got on a plane?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Tell me about training. What happened when you landed in country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Training days. So, like wake up in your host house and eat breakfast with your family and then just walk to the training center. And then there would be like topic specific and language classes. I think language classes were both morning and night.

[Assistant] Night?

[User] Sorry, not night but.

[Assistant] Like afternoon?

[User] Yeah. Like twice a day. Um. And we all had to start in French first. And then if you got to a certain point in French you could like pass the French proficiency and then start learning local language for whatever region you were going to. But we didn't know what region we were in at first. It's just all focused on French. I did not speak French before I came. I had studied, in college I had taken a year of French, but like in a typical college fashion, like didn't really.

[Assistant] Didn't retain any of it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Like twice a day. Um. And we all had to start in French first. And then if you got to a certain point in French you could like pass the French proficiency and then start learning local language for whatever region you were going to. But we didn't know what region we were in at first. It's just all focused on French. I did not speak French before I came. I had studied, in college I had taken a year of French, but like in a typical college fashion, like didn't really.

[Assistant] Didn't retain any of it.

[User] No. And I wasn't really forced to speak, like it was a lot of vocab. I think it was useful. I had a good idea of like sentence structure, but I still, it was still really hard to learn French. Yeah, I can remember my host mom one day, I think. I think our home coordinator was like coming in, doing site visits like in our, in our training village just to make sure that everything was like good. And I remember my host mom like miming that. She was, she was talking to the, to the coordinator and she was like miming breastfeeding and kept saying that I was like her daughter. Like she was breastfeeding me. I got, like the miming helped because I definitely understood what she was saying. But it was a very, I was like, this is, this is a very strange way to say that I am like your daughter.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] That you would offer me breast milk. Yeah, very funny. But she was great. I really liked her quite a bit. Yeah.

[Assistant] So were you all in the same training village or did you have different training villages?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That you would offer me breast milk. Yeah, very funny. But she was great. I really liked her quite a bit. Yeah.

[Assistant] So were you all in the same training village or did you have different training villages?

[User] No, we all were in the same training village. So they did for our group, our agroforestry and health volunteers came in and I think we were a group of about 30 and we all had home sites in the same Dubreka training village.

[Assistant] Cool.

[User] Yeah, it was great.

[Assistant] And you were a health volunteer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was a health volunteer that then got merged to be a youth volunteer.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] They said the placement coordinator had apparently requested Washington to send him five youth people.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] Which he then thought was me, but I don't really think that it. Like, I thought I was a health volunteer.

[Assistant] It was a miscommunication somewhere.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Which he then thought was me, but I don't really think that it. Like, I thought I was a health volunteer.

[Assistant] It was a miscommunication somewhere.

[User] I think there was. So also I was like reassigned too. Like I was reassigned to Guinea. So I was like, did you really? I don't know about this, but I just like had a lot of summer camp on my resume. So I think that that's what he zeroed in on and was like, oh, she's a youth volunteer, which was fine. I was jazzed to be a youth volunteer. It was a little bit trickier because there wasn't really a youth program anymore. Like this was the last of the, of the youth program, and they were just going to have health programs. So I didn't get so much youth specific training, but it was fine because I was doing health topics with the youth. So it was like, fine, I could have the health training and.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. So tell me about your site.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think there was. So also I was like reassigned too. Like I was reassigned to Guinea. So I was like, did you really? I don't know about this, but I just like had a lot of summer camp on my resume. So I think that that's what he zeroed in on and was like, oh, she's a youth volunteer, which was fine. I was jazzed to be a youth volunteer. It was a little bit trickier because there wasn't really a youth program anymore. Like this was the last of the, of the youth program, and they were just going to have health programs. So I didn't get so much youth specific training, but it was fine because I was doing health topics with the youth. So it was like, fine, I could have the health training and.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. So tell me about your site.

[User] My site, Koundara, is up in the Boké region. The Boké region is the coastal region that also extends inland. So I didn't have any coast in mine and I was very north. I was kind of the farthest. Yeah, I was like the farthest north that they had gone. They had gradually worked their way back up there. It took 15 hours by taxi to get there from the capital. Uh, it's about, Guinea is about the size of Oregon and it takes 15 hours to get from the southern part to the northern part. And the roads are pretty terrible.

[Assistant] When you say taxi?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Bush taxi. So like an old Saab that's falling apart that. It was either called, you would get you would get a six plas or neuf plas, which would be six people or nine people. But it was like always like, like in the six plas, you could put nine people and like a bunch of goats on top and maybe someone's holding a baby and like chickens hanging out the window. Yeah, like the nine place taxi would be more like a station wagon. Everybody's super crammed in. And traveling in Guinea it seems like you need to take everything with you. So everyone has a ton of baggage. No, definitely not air conditioning. Windows down unless the driver had recently cleaned the inside of his car because then he didn't want the dust to come inside. So then he would want the windows up, which was miserable.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] There were times that I would end up, because they stretched the six places to be much more, there were times that I would end up like straddling the stick shift.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] In the front seat, which was pretty uncomfortable given that then the driver would need to use the stick shift to change gears while you were driving. You're like, well, hmm. Okay. I guess this is what I'm doing. And they always wanted to put the white volunteers, the white people in the front. Our safety and security officer, who was great, she was Guinean, was always like, sit in the seat right behind the driver. It's the safest place if you were to get into an accident. But I would try and sit there and then the driver would like get more people into the taxi and then he would make me sit up front. So fine, I'll sit in front. Very frequently you were handed a baby to hold. Very dusty, very hot. And very dirty. Yeah.

[Assistant] Fun 15 hours.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just 15 hours.

[Assistant] Bouncing around.

[User]
Yeah. Bouncing around. The roads are really terrible. At some point, it's like different parts of roads had been paved, but then the infrastructure to fix the potholes wasn't there. So like someone would have come in with great intentions to make this road super paved. But Guinea has a rainy season and like after a couple of rainy seasons and no repairs, then it's, it's almost like the asphalt is worse. Like you would have been better off having dirt roads and gravel roads. There were some times when you would encounter on the way, there are these kids, these entrepreneurial kids that would stand on the side of the road with like somewhat larger rocks. And right before a taxi came up, they would like put the rock in the hole. Like, look, we're repairing the pothole. And they would demand money. So the taxi drivers would pay them.

But I was talking to a taxi driver at some point and he was like, oh yeah, they just keep doing it with this same rock. Like, they're not like actually fixing anything. They just wait until a car comes and then they take the rock out that they just put in. Put the rock in. And if you don't pay them, then they throw the rocks at your car. So.

[Assistant] It was very entrepreneurial.

[User] It is very entrepreneurial. I don't know if it's created a lot of social good, but the kids are getting some pennies to spend on something. Yeah. Yeah. Very cute.

[Assistant] Yeah. So tell me about your village.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Triplex. So there was, there was three separate rooms. And each of them had two rooms. So I was on the corner and I had a front room and a back room and I had an indoor bathroom with a Western toilet, but there isn't running water.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] So I really only peed in that toilet because otherwise you have to, you have to like use a bunch of water to flush the toilet. And I just used the family latrine because it was so much easier and less smelly since the room didn't have a door and was right next to my bed.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So. But it was nice to be able to take a shower. There was like a drain so I could just take a shower in my house and not walk to the latrine to take a shower. So that was really nice.

[Assistant] When you say shower, like a bucket bath?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I really only peed in that toilet because otherwise you have to, you have to like use a bunch of water to flush the toilet. And I just used the family latrine because it was so much easier and less smelly since the room didn't have a door and was right next to my bed.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So. But it was nice to be able to take a shower. There was like a drain so I could just take a shower in my house and not walk to the latrine to take a shower. So that was really nice.

[Assistant] When you say shower, like a bucket bath?

[User] Yeah, I mean a bucket bath. There was a drain where I could take a bucket bath.

[Assistant] Could dump water on your head.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So. But it was nice to be able to take a shower. There was like a drain so I could just take a shower in my house and not walk to the latrine to take a shower. So that was really nice.

[Assistant] When you say shower, like a bucket bath?

[User] Yeah, I mean a bucket bath. There was a drain where I could take a bucket bath.

[Assistant] Could dump water on your head.

[User] I could dump on myself and.

[Assistant] Not be standing in a bucket


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Even strangers.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah, people just, because I stood out so much, like I would walk to the market and people would be eating. And it's really common even for, to talk to locals among locals, like if you're eating and you'd see someone or make eye contact with them, you say, invitation, which is just like, come eat with me, come share my food. And it's always genuine. Like you can always walk over and go eat some of the food. And like it gave people such pleasure for me to, like, walk over and eat a bite of their sauce and be like, wow, your sauce is really good. And so, you know, I just ate with whoever.

[Assistant] Yeah. So it sounds like you made a lot of friends.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] In your village.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, people just, because I stood out so much, like I would walk to the market and people would be eating. And it's really common even for, to talk to locals among locals, like if you're eating and you'd see someone or make eye contact with them, you say, invitation, which is just like, come eat with me, come share my food. And it's always genuine. Like you can always walk over and go eat some of the food. And like it gave people such pleasure for me to, like, walk over and eat a bite of their sauce and be like, wow, your sauce is really good. And so, you know, I just ate with whoever.

[Assistant] Yeah. So it sounds like you made a lot of friends.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] In your village.

[User] I did. I did. Everyone was super welcoming. The children especially wanted to talk to the white girl in village. The word they would use is porto. Porto just means foreigner. It got, you know, like some days it's fine. Some days you're like, oh yeah, let's talk to the kids. But other days it's just exhausting. Or like after. And it wasn't just children either. And it feels very much like you're being called out for being an outsider. Although there was no malice ever, like no one was trying to wish me any harm when they. They really just wanted to talk to me or they wanted to do the exchange in the local language, like the greeting exchange. But some days it's just like, I just, I just want to walk to the market and buy bananas, and I don't want to talk to anyone and.

[Assistant] Yeah. Just sort of be invisible and fit in.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did. I did. Everyone was super welcoming. The children especially wanted to talk to the white girl in village. The word they would use is porto. Porto just means foreigner. It got, you know, like some days it's fine. Some days you're like, oh yeah, let's talk to the kids. But other days it's just exhausting. Or like after. And it wasn't just children either. And it feels very much like you're being called out for being an outsider. Although there was no malice ever, like no one was trying to wish me any harm when they. They really just wanted to talk to me or they wanted to do the exchange in the local language, like the greeting exchange. But some days it's just like, I just, I just want to walk to the market and buy bananas, and I don't want to talk to anyone and.

[Assistant] Yeah. Just sort of be invisible and fit in.

[User] And yeah, I just want to be invisible. And you absolutely never can be.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So that was sometimes hard. But if you could keep a good humor about it, it's a, it's a very sweet thing that everyone just wants to say hi and ask how you're doing.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. So tell me about your work in your village.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And yeah, I just want to be invisible. And you absolutely never can be.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So that was sometimes hard. But if you could keep a good humor about it, it's a, it's a very sweet thing that everyone just wants to say hi and ask how you're doing.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. So tell me about your work in your village.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Your half health, half youth job.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So that was sometimes hard. But if you could keep a good humor about it, it's a, it's a very sweet thing that everyone just wants to say hi and ask how you're doing.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. So tell me about your work in your village.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Your half health, half youth job.

[User] Yes. And so my counterpart worked for the Secoge, which is the, uh, it's an acronym, but it's the children's group, the national children's organization. And youth is defined as anyone under the age of 35. So that was our target audience, was anyone under the age of 35.

[Assistant] So you had some youth who were older than you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was awesome. I really liked her a lot. I liked the doctor well enough too, but I really liked that nurse, so I would do that on Fridays. And then I feel like we usually left early on Fridays anyway too, just like walk around in the market and like go sit with people or buy something or, I don't know.

[Assistant] Make friends.

[User] Yeah, right. Or like hang out with children. Yeah.

[Assistant] Cool.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did you get to travel any while you were in country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So he always wanted me to come to service. And when. And then he like was also like translating during the service too, because he was speaking in French to the regular parishioners.

[Assistant] So it was just you he was translating for?

[User] And then for me, he would be like, and to our American sister, we welcome her.

[Assistant] Woah.

[User]
And I was like, okay. I really don't want to be singled out. I also don't want to be at church right now. I don't want to go to church. And so the Nigerian barber then wanted me to come to church every week, and the Tanzanian pastor wanted me to come to church every week. And so I started going to the market and in Saréboido every Sunday so that I didn't have to go to church. And I just always said that, oh, I'm sorry, I have to do work with my other volunteer on Sunday in Saréboido. And they're like, on Sunday? You have to work on Sunday? And I'm like, yes, I have to work. She really needs my help. It's always just so I didn't have to run into the pastor and have him say, sister, we missed you. Yeah, yeah. It was good. Then I had a standing, a standing lunch date with my friend in the other village.

And it was true, her market on Sunday was very cool because it was at the intersection of Senegal, The Gambia. No, Senegal, Guinea- Bissau and Guinea. So people from the other two countries would come in and have market stalls. So it was cool. Like there was always way cooler fabric at that market. So I was busy doing my work on Sundays in the market, the Sunday market, buying fabric.

[Assistant] Did you have any side projects you really liked?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not really.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] So I got a text message from my, I got a confusing text message from my regional director. I can remember I was sitting at my counterpart's house eating my favorite sauce on the floor of his room. And I got this, like funny message that had a lot of acronyms in it, because Peace Corps loves acronyms.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And I like misunderstood it, or I didn't want to believe it. Because it said like all PCVs and PCTs are to be evacuated, like look for further information or something. But for months and months prior to this, like, people have been asking, volunteers have been asking like, are we being evacuated or are we in danger of being evacuated? Like, what are we doing? Ebola is growing. Like what? And the message we kept repeatedly hearing was, no. You're staying, like stay in place. It's fine. Don't worry about it. So it was kind of weird to get this out of the blue message. And for some reason, like my brain saw PCVs, which would be Peace Corps volunteers. And PCT would be Peace Corps trainees. But I didn't put it together and I think I didn't want to.

[Assistant] Yeah. There was just no, you had no idea that this was even a possibility?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I got a text message from my, I got a confusing text message from my regional director. I can remember I was sitting at my counterpart's house eating my favorite sauce on the floor of his room. And I got this, like funny message that had a lot of acronyms in it, because Peace Corps loves acronyms.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And I like misunderstood it, or I didn't want to believe it. Because it said like all PCVs and PCTs are to be evacuated, like look for further information or something. But for months and months prior to this, like, people have been asking, volunteers have been asking like, are we being evacuated or are we in danger of being evacuated? Like, what are we doing? Ebola is growing. Like what? And the message we kept repeatedly hearing was, no. You're staying, like stay in place. It's fine. Don't worry about it. So it was kind of weird to get this out of the blue message. And for some reason, like my brain saw PCVs, which would be Peace Corps volunteers. And PCT would be Peace Corps trainees. But I didn't put it together and I think I didn't want to.

[Assistant] Yeah. There was just no, you had no idea that this was even a possibility?

[User] No.

[Assistant] And you just got a text message saying, you're out.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So they were thinking that Ebola was going to blow over, which was wrong.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But they were thinking that it had just hit like a hot point. And so there were like too many cases and it was unsafe, but they were just taking us home on a temporary one month administrative leave.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So they were going to fly all of us home for one month and then theoretically send us all back.

[Assistant] So let me interrupt you really quick.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But they were thinking that it had just hit like a hot point. And so there were like too many cases and it was unsafe, but they were just taking us home on a temporary one month administrative leave.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So they were going to fly all of us home for one month and then theoretically send us all back.

[Assistant] So let me interrupt you really quick.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] What was going on as far as Ebola in the country up to that point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He picked the date. I got confirmation he was going to be there. We told everyone again, the mayor told everyone again. Date comes around, time comes around. Maybe no one was there. But like a half an hour later, people sort of showed up and the mayor showed up. And I was like, yes, it's going to happen. We're on stage. The mayor's like right next to me. And he was like, thank you so much everyone, for coming to this very important spread of information. Our like treasured American is here, blah, blah. And then he was like, looks like not everyone that we invited is here. And then says, since it's very important information, do you guys, let me be democratic here, do you guys think we should reschedule so everyone can be here to get this very important information? And I'm like, I'm definitely standing on stage shaking my head.

[Assistant] No.

[User] And everyone in the audience is like, yes, it's very important information. We should wait until we have a time for everyone to come.

[Assistant] No!

[User] No! This is stupid. I have eight of you. I want to talk to eight of you. I don't care if there was supposed to be 16. I want to get the message to eight of you. So we didn't, we didn't do any messaging that day. And then Ramadan started shortly after that, and I was like, okay, I guess it's going to, I guess it's going to wait until after Ramadan. And then three days after Ramadan, I left.

[Assistant] Oh my gosh. So you were, we left when you were packing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And everyone in the audience is like, yes, it's very important information. We should wait until we have a time for everyone to come.

[Assistant] No!

[User] No! This is stupid. I have eight of you. I want to talk to eight of you. I don't care if there was supposed to be 16. I want to get the message to eight of you. So we didn't, we didn't do any messaging that day. And then Ramadan started shortly after that, and I was like, okay, I guess it's going to, I guess it's going to wait until after Ramadan. And then three days after Ramadan, I left.

[Assistant] Oh my gosh. So you were, we left when you were packing?

[User] Yeah. Okay, so I was packing. So I went back to my.

[Assistant] For a month?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And at the end of that, we were terminated. Given our close of service. But we didn't have, we didn't have a close of service ceremony. Like it was very, you know, like I was all alone at my house when I found out I wasn't going back to Guinea.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I had told all those people I was coming back. And then those people, those doubters who were like, they're not coming back. They really came back to me and I was like, I guess I'm not.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It was a very sad time.

[Assistant] And then what happened?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] By the time you had joined NASA, they were about midway through the Gemini Program, so there had been space flights. They had done Mercury and a few Gemini flights. What had you thought years earlier when they had selected the first astronauts and these Mercury guys had become somewhat celebrities?

[User] Icons. Yes. Well, I was very, very proud of them and I was very excited about the whole thing, but never identified myself with that program at all. As far as I felt at the time, I was a fighter pilot, a Marine fighter pilot, and had no visions of having done that or wanting to do that. It wasn't until that announcement came out from the Marine Corps when I was a junior major, that I decided it would be a thing to try for, and I really only did it to see how far I could go. It wasn't one of my driving ambitions to be an astronaut, because I just didn't think that that's what I was going to be. I figured, well, I was going to be a Marine fighter pilot.

[Assistant] Did you pay a lot of attention to, say, the Mercury Program or these other early events in the space race?

[User] Yes, I did. I paid a lot of attention to it. I followed all of the missions very, very avidly and very carefully and was really interested in what was going on, but I never identified myself with that program.\n\n I might say that when we first reported to NASA, it was a rather tumultuous time because that was about the time that [Charles A.] Bassett [II] and [Elliot M.] See [Jr.] had their accident in St. Louis [Missouri] and were killed. It wasn't long after we arrived that Gemini VIII flew and Neil [A.] Armstrong had the thruster stuck on and got into the spin-up mode. I think maybe it made a few of our guys say, "Gee, I wonder what we've gotten ourselves into here."

[Assistant] If we can stop and change out our tape here.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Icons. Yes. Well, I was very, very proud of them and I was very excited about the whole thing, but never identified myself with that program at all. As far as I felt at the time, I was a fighter pilot, a Marine fighter pilot, and had no visions of having done that or wanting to do that. It wasn't until that announcement came out from the Marine Corps when I was a junior major, that I decided it would be a thing to try for, and I really only did it to see how far I could go. It wasn't one of my driving ambitions to be an astronaut, because I just didn't think that that's what I was going to be. I figured, well, I was going to be a Marine fighter pilot.

[Assistant] Did you pay a lot of attention to, say, the Mercury Program or these other early events in the space race?

[User] Yes, I did. I paid a lot of attention to it. I followed all of the missions very, very avidly and very carefully and was really interested in what was going on, but I never identified myself with that program.\n\n I might say that when we first reported to NASA, it was a rather tumultuous time because that was about the time that [Charles A.] Bassett [II] and [Elliot M.] See [Jr.] had their accident in St. Louis [Missouri] and were killed. It wasn't long after we arrived that Gemini VIII flew and Neil [A.] Armstrong had the thruster stuck on and got into the spin-up mode. I think maybe it made a few of our guys say, "Gee, I wonder what we've gotten ourselves into here."

[Assistant] If we can stop and change out our tape here.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant] What did you expect from the job of an astronaut when you first joined NASA?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. But I understand that divers were going in the water and people were getting pretty excited when our spacecraft didn't stop sinking.

[Assistant] I imagine so. At least you guys had enough sense to get out of there before it filled up too much.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] I assume that you guys were still in the training mode when they launched the orbital workshop by itself.

[User] Yes. We were in our final training mode. That is, we were mostly focusing on the command and service module training and things like that. But when the orbital workshop launched, we left the launch area and said, "Oh, boy, that was really beautiful." It just went off beautifully. By the time we got back to the Holiday Inn, the word was beginning to come out that there was something wrong. We learned about that, and again we had another bad day at Black Rock, because that looked like that might be the end of the program.\n\n John and Annie Glenn were with us at the time, and John said, "Now, hang on, Jerry. Don't worry. They'll think of something." And history has it that they were able to do some wonderful things. It's again another monument to the flexibility and the versatility of the human being, and that is that we were able to figure out how to deal with that problem and correct it and stabilize the vehicle and get it back, thermally stabilize the vehicle and get it back in operable condition.

[Assistant] Did you have any role in that recovery process or in training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I don't remember whether I folded Apollo 8 into that or not. I just don't remember.

[Assistant] One of the things you mentioned for the missions of your Skylab flight was to do these comet observations. That's what these second and third EVAs were for, too. Tell me about looking at the comet and what you guys thought about that.

[User] Well, the comet was a disappointment in terms of brilliance. Everybody, and even on the ground, thought that it was going to be a beautiful, brilliant comet, and it turned out to be very faint. We really had to work to find it. And once we found it, it was a gorgeous little thing, but it was really small and faint. We took as many pictures as we could of it, but I don't think our film was sensitive enough to really get good pictures. I think the only decent one that was taken was with a coronagraph on the ATM. I think the people on the ground got better pictures of the comet than we did.\n\n So in order to describe what we saw, we did drawings. Ed Gibson was the point man on that. He did the drawings and then he would do a TV report, showing the drawing to the TV and describing the colors that he saw. There's a little beak on the front end of the comet that he talked about and the significance of that. That was it. It was a disappointment, but it was really fun looking for the comet and finding it. We set experiments up outside to try to capture it while we were inside, and we brought them in on subsequent EVAs as well.

[Assistant] If we can stop to swap the tape.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant] You mentioned that the comet was a little bit of a disappointment from what you had expected. How did the other types of experiments you were doing, the medical and the Earth observations, compare to your expectations in terms of their performance?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well I started college in fall of 1960 and shortly after I started college, I went to Rock Island, Illinois, to hear JFK campaign, sometime in the fall anyway. Went up with a group of friends to Rock Island.

[Assistant] Were you politically active or just sort of out of curiosity or?

[User] Just probably more out of curiosity than anything. Some others in the group were fairly politically active. My family had been politically active. Actually, I had, as a nine year old, nailed up posters on telephone poles out in our rural area for Dwight Eisenhower. But, you know, I wasn't that politically active at that particular point.

[Assistant] Where did you grow up?

[User] I grew up on a farm in west central Illinois, near Mount Stewart in the Brown County, near Mount Sterling, Illinois, about 40 miles west of Quincy on the Mississippi, or east of Quincy on the Mississippi.

[Assistant] And you went to high school there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just probably more out of curiosity than anything. Some others in the group were fairly politically active. My family had been politically active. Actually, I had, as a nine year old, nailed up posters on telephone poles out in our rural area for Dwight Eisenhower. But, you know, I wasn't that politically active at that particular point.

[Assistant] Where did you grow up?

[User] I grew up on a farm in west central Illinois, near Mount Stewart in the Brown County, near Mount Sterling, Illinois, about 40 miles west of Quincy on the Mississippi, or east of Quincy on the Mississippi.

[Assistant] And you went to high school there?

[User] I went to high school in Mount Sterling. It was a consolidated high school.

[Assistant] During high school, did you do any extracurricular activities, volunteer work, travel?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I grew up on a farm in west central Illinois, near Mount Stewart in the Brown County, near Mount Sterling, Illinois, about 40 miles west of Quincy on the Mississippi, or east of Quincy on the Mississippi.

[Assistant] And you went to high school there?

[User] I went to high school in Mount Sterling. It was a consolidated high school.

[Assistant] During high school, did you do any extracurricular activities, volunteer work, travel?

[User] Well, back in the fifties on the farms, things were not real good, and so I didn't do a whole lot. Most of the things I did were oriented around our country church and my 4-H club. And oh, just a few things at school itself, not very many. I was in the Future Homemakers of America but couldn't really participate because I had to catch a school bus. And a few things like that. So there was always a school bus issue. So, no, I was grew up in a relatively, you know, fairly isolated actually. I grew up 40 miles from the Mississippi and I'd only been a few miles across the Mississippi River twice.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. And then you finished high school and were able to go to college.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I went to high school in Mount Sterling. It was a consolidated high school.

[Assistant] During high school, did you do any extracurricular activities, volunteer work, travel?

[User] Well, back in the fifties on the farms, things were not real good, and so I didn't do a whole lot. Most of the things I did were oriented around our country church and my 4-H club. And oh, just a few things at school itself, not very many. I was in the Future Homemakers of America but couldn't really participate because I had to catch a school bus. And a few things like that. So there was always a school bus issue. So, no, I was grew up in a relatively, you know, fairly isolated actually. I grew up 40 miles from the Mississippi and I'd only been a few miles across the Mississippi River twice.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. And then you finished high school and were able to go to college.

[User] Yeah, I finished high school there at Brown County High School and got a state teacher scholarship. And so was able to go to Western Illinois University, full tuition paid, and so that helped me go to college and get my bachelor's degree.

[Assistant] And you were, with what goal, you're going to become?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, back in the fifties on the farms, things were not real good, and so I didn't do a whole lot. Most of the things I did were oriented around our country church and my 4-H club. And oh, just a few things at school itself, not very many. I was in the Future Homemakers of America but couldn't really participate because I had to catch a school bus. And a few things like that. So there was always a school bus issue. So, no, I was grew up in a relatively, you know, fairly isolated actually. I grew up 40 miles from the Mississippi and I'd only been a few miles across the Mississippi River twice.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. And then you finished high school and were able to go to college.

[User] Yeah, I finished high school there at Brown County High School and got a state teacher scholarship. And so was able to go to Western Illinois University, full tuition paid, and so that helped me go to college and get my bachelor's degree.

[Assistant] And you were, with what goal, you're going to become?

[User] OK, I, um, my goal was to become a homemaker, become a home economist and I didn't have a very big perspective on what some of the options were because of the kind of area where I grew up. And so as far as being a woman at that particular point in time, I could see, well, I could get a job teaching or I could get a job as an extension home economist. And so that was sort of my perspective, and I also considered some other areas, but felt that those would limit me simply to teaching because there weren't other options that I knew about. And so my goal was to get a degree in home economics and I was actually interested in extension service from the beginning, because I had been active in 4-H, knew the 4-H agent and extension home economist and the ag agent very well.

[Assistant] Now you're in your third year of the program and when you went up to listen to John Kennedy speak.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I finished high school there at Brown County High School and got a state teacher scholarship. And so was able to go to Western Illinois University, full tuition paid, and so that helped me go to college and get my bachelor's degree.

[Assistant] And you were, with what goal, you're going to become?

[User] OK, I, um, my goal was to become a homemaker, become a home economist and I didn't have a very big perspective on what some of the options were because of the kind of area where I grew up. And so as far as being a woman at that particular point in time, I could see, well, I could get a job teaching or I could get a job as an extension home economist. And so that was sort of my perspective, and I also considered some other areas, but felt that those would limit me simply to teaching because there weren't other options that I knew about. And so my goal was to get a degree in home economics and I was actually interested in extension service from the beginning, because I had been active in 4-H, knew the 4-H agent and extension home economist and the ag agent very well.

[Assistant] Now you're in your third year of the program and when you went up to listen to John Kennedy speak.

[User] I was a freshman. First semester of my freshman year, first quarter of my freshman year.

[Assistant] Let's go back to the story if you going to hear Kennedy.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was a freshman. First semester of my freshman year, first quarter of my freshman year.

[Assistant] Let's go back to the story if you going to hear Kennedy.

[User] So, um, not too many students had cars back in those days, but I had a friend who had a friend who had a car and so a carload of us went up to hear JFK in Rock Island, Illinois. Of course, the Peace Corps had been proposed before that, I can't remember how long before that particular campaign stop, not that awfully long. But anyway, heard him and he was very exciting and, you know, invigorating. And, you know, he talked about this organization where young people would give two years of their lives to help. And he particularly talked about young people with ag backgrounds. And of course, I'd grown up on a farm and we had, you know, it was a small subsistence farm back then. You know, we had cattle, we had hogs, we had chickens, you know, we had row crops of various kinds. And, you know, it's very different than the farming of today. And so I grew up on that kind of farm, being involved, you know, in the farm.

[Assistant] So did you.

[User] And so that was exciting to me, so I was immediately interested.

[Assistant] And he was inaugurated in January of '61.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So, um, not too many students had cars back in those days, but I had a friend who had a friend who had a car and so a carload of us went up to hear JFK in Rock Island, Illinois. Of course, the Peace Corps had been proposed before that, I can't remember how long before that particular campaign stop, not that awfully long. But anyway, heard him and he was very exciting and, you know, invigorating. And, you know, he talked about this organization where young people would give two years of their lives to help. And he particularly talked about young people with ag backgrounds. And of course, I'd grown up on a farm and we had, you know, it was a small subsistence farm back then. You know, we had cattle, we had hogs, we had chickens, you know, we had row crops of various kinds. And, you know, it's very different than the farming of today. And so I grew up on that kind of farm, being involved, you know, in the farm.

[Assistant] So did you.

[User] And so that was exciting to me, so I was immediately interested.

[Assistant] And he was inaugurated in January of '61.

[User] January of '61. And when Peace Corps started, my boyfriend and I, who were engaged at that time, we decided to apply.

[Assistant] OK. Now how do you apply from being in such a small town and small college?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so that was exciting to me, so I was immediately interested.

[Assistant] And he was inaugurated in January of '61.

[User] January of '61. And when Peace Corps started, my boyfriend and I, who were engaged at that time, we decided to apply.

[Assistant] OK. Now how do you apply from being in such a small town and small college?

[User] Actually, it wasn't in January '61 We applied in January of '62, excuse me. We were engaged in January, in December of '61 and we applied in January of '62. And it really wasn't hard. We just wrote to Peace Corps and asked for applications and filled them out and mailed them. There wasn't really any recruiting to speak of back in that day that I'm aware of. Maybe they were recruiting on bigger campuses, but you know, there wasn't any recruiting at Western Illinois University.

[Assistant] Do you remember the application process?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] January of '61. And when Peace Corps started, my boyfriend and I, who were engaged at that time, we decided to apply.

[Assistant] OK. Now how do you apply from being in such a small town and small college?

[User] Actually, it wasn't in January '61 We applied in January of '62, excuse me. We were engaged in January, in December of '61 and we applied in January of '62. And it really wasn't hard. We just wrote to Peace Corps and asked for applications and filled them out and mailed them. There wasn't really any recruiting to speak of back in that day that I'm aware of. Maybe they were recruiting on bigger campuses, but you know, there wasn't any recruiting at Western Illinois University.

[Assistant] Do you remember the application process?

[User] I don't remember a whole lot about it. I know that it's a lot different than today. I remember it was fairly lengthy. It was all on paper.

[Assistant] Do you recall, there's a point where they ask you, one, if you know any second language, and, two, if you had a preference for assignment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Actually, it wasn't in January '61 We applied in January of '62, excuse me. We were engaged in January, in December of '61 and we applied in January of '62. And it really wasn't hard. We just wrote to Peace Corps and asked for applications and filled them out and mailed them. There wasn't really any recruiting to speak of back in that day that I'm aware of. Maybe they were recruiting on bigger campuses, but you know, there wasn't any recruiting at Western Illinois University.

[Assistant] Do you remember the application process?

[User] I don't remember a whole lot about it. I know that it's a lot different than today. I remember it was fairly lengthy. It was all on paper.

[Assistant] Do you recall, there's a point where they ask you, one, if you know any second language, and, two, if you had a preference for assignment?

[User] Yes, I remember that part. And no, I did not have a second language. Our high school had only offered Latin. And so I had a year of Latin and no usable second language. And so that was my response to the language portion of the question. And then as far as assignment, somehow we decided that we were interested in Latin America based on some people, you know, we had perhaps known things we know about it, and, you know, both of us, actually our perspectives were somewhat limited, but we indicated that Latin America would be our first choice and then, you know, anywhere would be the second choice. We really wanted to do this.

[Assistant] And you were applying as a couple?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember a whole lot about it. I know that it's a lot different than today. I remember it was fairly lengthy. It was all on paper.

[Assistant] Do you recall, there's a point where they ask you, one, if you know any second language, and, two, if you had a preference for assignment?

[User] Yes, I remember that part. And no, I did not have a second language. Our high school had only offered Latin. And so I had a year of Latin and no usable second language. And so that was my response to the language portion of the question. And then as far as assignment, somehow we decided that we were interested in Latin America based on some people, you know, we had perhaps known things we know about it, and, you know, both of us, actually our perspectives were somewhat limited, but we indicated that Latin America would be our first choice and then, you know, anywhere would be the second choice. We really wanted to do this.

[Assistant] And you were applying as a couple?

[User] Yes, we were applying as a couple, planning to get married in June.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. And what was your family's reaction?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I remember that part. And no, I did not have a second language. Our high school had only offered Latin. And so I had a year of Latin and no usable second language. And so that was my response to the language portion of the question. And then as far as assignment, somehow we decided that we were interested in Latin America based on some people, you know, we had perhaps known things we know about it, and, you know, both of us, actually our perspectives were somewhat limited, but we indicated that Latin America would be our first choice and then, you know, anywhere would be the second choice. We really wanted to do this.

[Assistant] And you were applying as a couple?

[User] Yes, we were applying as a couple, planning to get married in June.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. And what was your family's reaction?

[User] Oh, my family was absolutely horrified. I was the first one in my family, on either side of my family, to go to college. And, you know, they were afraid that I would not finish. That, you know, they just were very, very concerned about the whole thing. My family didn't even have a telephone in 1960. And um, so you know this, you know, I indicated before that I'd only been a few miles across the Mississippi River, even though I grew up 40 miles from it. So this was a very big step as far as they were concerned and very frightening and very.

[Assistant] How about your friends at college, did they think you were crazy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, my family was absolutely horrified. I was the first one in my family, on either side of my family, to go to college. And, you know, they were afraid that I would not finish. That, you know, they just were very, very concerned about the whole thing. My family didn't even have a telephone in 1960. And um, so you know this, you know, I indicated before that I'd only been a few miles across the Mississippi River, even though I grew up 40 miles from it. So this was a very big step as far as they were concerned and very frightening and very.

[Assistant] How about your friends at college, did they think you were crazy?

[User] Well, some of them did, but they were generally supportive. They were generally supportive. Back then, you know, they, um, you know, they still do background checks, but you know, they talked at length with your friends and then I think even did maybe some background checks on some of your friends.

[Assistant] The FBI?

[User] Yeah, they did. And you know, my friends were supportive.

[Assistant] And your fiancé was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, they did. And you know, my friends were supportive.

[Assistant] And your fiancé was?

[User] Yeah, he was as interested, you know, was probably.

[Assistant] As committed?

[User] Yeah, the synergy of both of us probably is what prompted us to do this.

[Assistant] Was he from the same town as you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, he was as interested, you know, was probably.

[Assistant] As committed?

[User] Yeah, the synergy of both of us probably is what prompted us to do this.

[Assistant] Was he from the same town as you?

[User] No, he wasn't from the same town, but he was from, you know, maybe 40 miles away or so.

[Assistant] Similar background though?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, the synergy of both of us probably is what prompted us to do this.

[Assistant] Was he from the same town as you?

[User] No, he wasn't from the same town, but he was from, you know, maybe 40 miles away or so.

[Assistant] Similar background though?

[User] Similar background, except, well, he didn't actually grow up on a farm, but he had a lot of farm contacts and had worked on his grandfather's farm, was majoring in agriculture.

[Assistant] Was he ahead of you in school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, he wasn't from the same town, but he was from, you know, maybe 40 miles away or so.

[Assistant] Similar background though?

[User] Similar background, except, well, he didn't actually grow up on a farm, but he had a lot of farm contacts and had worked on his grandfather's farm, was majoring in agriculture.

[Assistant] Was he ahead of you in school?

[User] No, we were both. We were both on the same stage.

[Assistant] When were you due to get your degree?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Similar background, except, well, he didn't actually grow up on a farm, but he had a lot of farm contacts and had worked on his grandfather's farm, was majoring in agriculture.

[Assistant] Was he ahead of you in school?

[User] No, we were both. We were both on the same stage.

[Assistant] When were you due to get your degree?

[User] Well, I was planning to go through in three years. I'd gone to summer school that first summer, we both had, to try to get through faster and, uh, get jobs faster. But then along the way, the Peace Corps thing really had interested us ever since we first heard JFK speak, and he was in that group when I went to Rock Island. Had interested us from that time. And then as the program started to materialize and a little publicity came out about it and the news and the applications became available, you know, we decided that this could be something that we could do. That we both had farm backgrounds and, you know, we could contribute, we wanted to contribute.

[Assistant] Do you remember taking a test as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, we were both. We were both on the same stage.

[Assistant] When were you due to get your degree?

[User] Well, I was planning to go through in three years. I'd gone to summer school that first summer, we both had, to try to get through faster and, uh, get jobs faster. But then along the way, the Peace Corps thing really had interested us ever since we first heard JFK speak, and he was in that group when I went to Rock Island. Had interested us from that time. And then as the program started to materialize and a little publicity came out about it and the news and the applications became available, you know, we decided that this could be something that we could do. That we both had farm backgrounds and, you know, we could contribute, we wanted to contribute.

[Assistant] Do you remember taking a test as well?

[User] Yes, I do remember taking a test.

[Assistant] And were you intimidated by that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I was planning to go through in three years. I'd gone to summer school that first summer, we both had, to try to get through faster and, uh, get jobs faster. But then along the way, the Peace Corps thing really had interested us ever since we first heard JFK speak, and he was in that group when I went to Rock Island. Had interested us from that time. And then as the program started to materialize and a little publicity came out about it and the news and the applications became available, you know, we decided that this could be something that we could do. That we both had farm backgrounds and, you know, we could contribute, we wanted to contribute.

[Assistant] Do you remember taking a test as well?

[User] Yes, I do remember taking a test.

[Assistant] And were you intimidated by that?

[User] Yes, actually I was. Uh huh. But I don't remember much about the test, but I do remember taking the test.

[Assistant] It was kind of like a GRE or something.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I do remember taking a test.

[Assistant] And were you intimidated by that?

[User] Yes, actually I was. Uh huh. But I don't remember much about the test, but I do remember taking the test.

[Assistant] It was kind of like a GRE or something.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] So, your applications are in. Have you finished up your degrees yet?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, actually I was. Uh huh. But I don't remember much about the test, but I do remember taking the test.

[Assistant] It was kind of like a GRE or something.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] So, your applications are in. Have you finished up your degrees yet?

[User] Oh no. We finished our degrees after we came back from Peace Corps.

[Assistant] So you're still in school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] So, your applications are in. Have you finished up your degrees yet?

[User] Oh no. We finished our degrees after we came back from Peace Corps.

[Assistant] So you're still in school?

[User] We're still in school.

[Assistant] And you've set the marriage date.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh no. We finished our degrees after we came back from Peace Corps.

[Assistant] So you're still in school?

[User] We're still in school.

[Assistant] And you've set the marriage date.

[User] We set the wedding date. Uh huh.

[Assistant] And then what happened?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We're still in school.

[Assistant] And you've set the marriage date.

[User] We set the wedding date. Uh huh.

[Assistant] And then what happened?

[User] Well, we received our acceptance to Peace Corps, assignment to Ecuador.

[Assistant] Do you recall the letter?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We set the wedding date. Uh huh.

[Assistant] And then what happened?

[User] Well, we received our acceptance to Peace Corps, assignment to Ecuador.

[Assistant] Do you recall the letter?

[User] No, I don't.

[Assistant] Was it letter, phone call, telegram?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we received our acceptance to Peace Corps, assignment to Ecuador.

[Assistant] Do you recall the letter?

[User] No, I don't.

[Assistant] Was it letter, phone call, telegram?

[User] Letter. It was letter, I believe. It was in writing. It may have been a telegram. I don't recall exactly, but it was in writing. It wasn't a phone call.

[Assistant] And what did it say?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don't.

[Assistant] Was it letter, phone call, telegram?

[User] Letter. It was letter, I believe. It was in writing. It may have been a telegram. I don't recall exactly, but it was in writing. It wasn't a phone call.

[Assistant] And what did it say?

[User] Um, I believe it said, you know, congratulations. You've been accepted for training for this project and you will report to this location, which was for us, Bozeman, Montana, Montana State University, on this date. And I don't remember exactly, but basically it came in writing.

[Assistant] What was your reaction?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Letter. It was letter, I believe. It was in writing. It may have been a telegram. I don't recall exactly, but it was in writing. It wasn't a phone call.

[Assistant] And what did it say?

[User] Um, I believe it said, you know, congratulations. You've been accepted for training for this project and you will report to this location, which was for us, Bozeman, Montana, Montana State University, on this date. And I don't remember exactly, but basically it came in writing.

[Assistant] What was your reaction?

[User] Oh, very excited. Absolutely excited. Uh huh. And of course, I think my parents up to that point had felt that maybe this wasn't really going to happen. So, um, things became rather tense at that point. They were not at all excited about this.

[Assistant] But you were committed enough that you were not going to back down?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, I believe it said, you know, congratulations. You've been accepted for training for this project and you will report to this location, which was for us, Bozeman, Montana, Montana State University, on this date. And I don't remember exactly, but basically it came in writing.

[Assistant] What was your reaction?

[User] Oh, very excited. Absolutely excited. Uh huh. And of course, I think my parents up to that point had felt that maybe this wasn't really going to happen. So, um, things became rather tense at that point. They were not at all excited about this.

[Assistant] But you were committed enough that you were not going to back down?

[User] Yeah, I was very committed.

[Assistant] And Peace Corps understood they were accepting you without the degrees.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, very excited. Absolutely excited. Uh huh. And of course, I think my parents up to that point had felt that maybe this wasn't really going to happen. So, um, things became rather tense at that point. They were not at all excited about this.

[Assistant] But you were committed enough that you were not going to back down?

[User] Yeah, I was very committed.

[Assistant] And Peace Corps understood they were accepting you without the degrees.

[User] Yes. Oh yes. Actually, at that point, you did not have to have a degree to go into Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. In filling out the application, you must have indicated a lot about having grown up on a farm and being in, having studied agriculture.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I was very committed.

[Assistant] And Peace Corps understood they were accepting you without the degrees.

[User] Yes. Oh yes. Actually, at that point, you did not have to have a degree to go into Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. In filling out the application, you must have indicated a lot about having grown up on a farm and being in, having studied agriculture.

[User] I believe so. I believe that a lot of that was on the application. There were things about, you know, volunteer involvement, which, you know, had mostly been through my church and my 4-H club. And, you know, I participated on some, you know, livestock judging teams, and then about working on the farm at home and that kind of involvement.

[Assistant] And your, is he now your husband, your husband?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Oh yes. Actually, at that point, you did not have to have a degree to go into Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. In filling out the application, you must have indicated a lot about having grown up on a farm and being in, having studied agriculture.

[User] I believe so. I believe that a lot of that was on the application. There were things about, you know, volunteer involvement, which, you know, had mostly been through my church and my 4-H club. And, you know, I participated on some, you know, livestock judging teams, and then about working on the farm at home and that kind of involvement.

[Assistant] And your, is he now your husband, your husband?

[User] Um, my fiancé at the time.

[Assistant] Did he have a strong enough agricultural background?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I believe so. I believe that a lot of that was on the application. There were things about, you know, volunteer involvement, which, you know, had mostly been through my church and my 4-H club. And, you know, I participated on some, you know, livestock judging teams, and then about working on the farm at home and that kind of involvement.

[Assistant] And your, is he now your husband, your husband?

[User] Um, my fiancé at the time.

[Assistant] Did he have a strong enough agricultural background?

[User] Well, he had grown up helping his grandfather on the farm and was actually majoring in agriculture. I was majoring in home economics.

[Assistant] Got it. All right. Did he speak any other languages?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, my fiancé at the time.

[Assistant] Did he have a strong enough agricultural background?

[User] Well, he had grown up helping his grandfather on the farm and was actually majoring in agriculture. I was majoring in home economics.

[Assistant] Got it. All right. Did he speak any other languages?

[User] I think he may have a semester or a year of Spanish. I can't remember. A small amount, not. I mean, really, neither one of us spoke Spanish.

[Assistant] And it was your sense that you were both committed to doing this?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, he had grown up helping his grandfather on the farm and was actually majoring in agriculture. I was majoring in home economics.

[Assistant] Got it. All right. Did he speak any other languages?

[User] I think he may have a semester or a year of Spanish. I can't remember. A small amount, not. I mean, really, neither one of us spoke Spanish.

[Assistant] And it was your sense that you were both committed to doing this?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] When were you asked to report to Montana?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think he may have a semester or a year of Spanish. I can't remember. A small amount, not. I mean, really, neither one of us spoke Spanish.

[Assistant] And it was your sense that you were both committed to doing this?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] When were you asked to report to Montana?

[User] We reported in June. I don't recall the exact date because we finished the quarter, got married, and then went to Bozeman.

[Assistant] So your honeymoon was.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] When were you asked to report to Montana?

[User] We reported in June. I don't recall the exact date because we finished the quarter, got married, and then went to Bozeman.

[Assistant] So your honeymoon was.

[User] Our honeymoon was in Peace Corps training, more or less. You know, after the first couple of days, anyway. Actually neither one of us had ever flown before on an airplane. So the Peace Corps sent us airline tickets.

[Assistant] Where did you fly out of?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Our honeymoon was in Peace Corps training, more or less. You know, after the first couple of days, anyway. Actually neither one of us had ever flown before on an airplane. So the Peace Corps sent us airline tickets.

[Assistant] Where did you fly out of?

[User] Well, we didn't. The federal government, you know, always uses first class tickets so they can be refunded. And so we cashed the tickets in and got train tickets because neither one of us had ever seen any of the country west. And so we took the train to Montana.

[Assistant] Lovely.

[User] We didn't plan the trip very well, though, because we were this naive that we got on the train in central Illinois in, you know, early in the day or like sometime in the morning. And went to Chicago and had to change trains and went to Minneapolis and changed trains again and then headed west. But by then it was dark. And so we went all across the states we really wanted to see, the Dakotas and eastern Montana, in the dark and woke up, you know, not too far out of Bozeman actually. We did see a little bit of it around Bozeman the next morning.

[Assistant] And you got yourself. So it was at a university?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we didn't. The federal government, you know, always uses first class tickets so they can be refunded. And so we cashed the tickets in and got train tickets because neither one of us had ever seen any of the country west. And so we took the train to Montana.

[Assistant] Lovely.

[User] We didn't plan the trip very well, though, because we were this naive that we got on the train in central Illinois in, you know, early in the day or like sometime in the morning. And went to Chicago and had to change trains and went to Minneapolis and changed trains again and then headed west. But by then it was dark. And so we went all across the states we really wanted to see, the Dakotas and eastern Montana, in the dark and woke up, you know, not too far out of Bozeman actually. We did see a little bit of it around Bozeman the next morning.

[Assistant] And you got yourself. So it was at a university?

[User] Yeah, the training was at Montana State University had the contract for Ecuador, and the home economics, the ag staff were involved.

[Assistant] Do you recall first reporting, checking in, you and, what's your husband's name?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We didn't plan the trip very well, though, because we were this naive that we got on the train in central Illinois in, you know, early in the day or like sometime in the morning. And went to Chicago and had to change trains and went to Minneapolis and changed trains again and then headed west. But by then it was dark. And so we went all across the states we really wanted to see, the Dakotas and eastern Montana, in the dark and woke up, you know, not too far out of Bozeman actually. We did see a little bit of it around Bozeman the next morning.

[Assistant] And you got yourself. So it was at a university?

[User] Yeah, the training was at Montana State University had the contract for Ecuador, and the home economics, the ag staff were involved.

[Assistant] Do you recall first reporting, checking in, you and, what's your husband's name?

[User] Dave. Dave Ellsworth.

[Assistant] So you and Dave show up and tell me about.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, the training was at Montana State University had the contract for Ecuador, and the home economics, the ag staff were involved.

[Assistant] Do you recall first reporting, checking in, you and, what's your husband's name?

[User] Dave. Dave Ellsworth.

[Assistant] So you and Dave show up and tell me about.

[User] They met us at the train station and took us, um, to check in. I don't remember a whole lot about the check-in procedure. I do remember we were lodged in the dorms and, um.

[Assistant] Together, I hope.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Dave. Dave Ellsworth.

[Assistant] So you and Dave show up and tell me about.

[User] They met us at the train station and took us, um, to check in. I don't remember a whole lot about the check-in procedure. I do remember we were lodged in the dorms and, um.

[Assistant] Together, I hope.

[User] Yes, together. Uh huh.

[Assistant] How many were in the group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They met us at the train station and took us, um, to check in. I don't remember a whole lot about the check-in procedure. I do remember we were lodged in the dorms and, um.

[Assistant] Together, I hope.

[User] Yes, together. Uh huh.

[Assistant] How many were in the group?

[User] Initially, there were 77, I believe, somewhere in the seventies.

[Assistant] Now you've made this decision, you and David have made this strong decision to join, and now you're in the midst of 70 some people who've done the same. What was your reaction to others, to the rest of the group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, together. Uh huh.

[Assistant] How many were in the group?

[User] Initially, there were 77, I believe, somewhere in the seventies.

[Assistant] Now you've made this decision, you and David have made this strong decision to join, and now you're in the midst of 70 some people who've done the same. What was your reaction to others, to the rest of the group?

[User] Well, you know, actually, I'm having a little trouble remembering, you know, it's 42 years later.

[Assistant] Sure. Yeah, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Initially, there were 77, I believe, somewhere in the seventies.

[Assistant] Now you've made this decision, you and David have made this strong decision to join, and now you're in the midst of 70 some people who've done the same. What was your reaction to others, to the rest of the group?

[User] Well, you know, actually, I'm having a little trouble remembering, you know, it's 42 years later.

[Assistant] Sure. Yeah, yeah.

[User] The group was somewhat diverse from my perspective at the time, anyway. There were quite a few people with ag backgrounds like ours. And then there were some people without ag backgrounds who were to be trained, you know, in agriculture.

[Assistant] There must have been people from California, New York.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you know, actually, I'm having a little trouble remembering, you know, it's 42 years later.

[Assistant] Sure. Yeah, yeah.

[User] The group was somewhat diverse from my perspective at the time, anyway. There were quite a few people with ag backgrounds like ours. And then there were some people without ag backgrounds who were to be trained, you know, in agriculture.

[Assistant] There must have been people from California, New York.

[User] Yeah, from everywhere, you know, there was an. Most of the group was fairly young, either right out of college. There were several who had not started college at all. And then we were in the middle, you know, of our degree programs at the time. There was one couple. He was a retired extension agent from Kentucky and his wife, who was probably, they were the oldest in our group. There was a couple probably in their forties or so. And then there was a single woman who'd been a goat farmer in Florida. And then most of the rest were right out of college. Yeah, mostly right out of college.

[Assistant] But a fair number have were coming off, from farm backgrounds?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The group was somewhat diverse from my perspective at the time, anyway. There were quite a few people with ag backgrounds like ours. And then there were some people without ag backgrounds who were to be trained, you know, in agriculture.

[Assistant] There must have been people from California, New York.

[User] Yeah, from everywhere, you know, there was an. Most of the group was fairly young, either right out of college. There were several who had not started college at all. And then we were in the middle, you know, of our degree programs at the time. There was one couple. He was a retired extension agent from Kentucky and his wife, who was probably, they were the oldest in our group. There was a couple probably in their forties or so. And then there was a single woman who'd been a goat farmer in Florida. And then most of the rest were right out of college. Yeah, mostly right out of college.

[Assistant] But a fair number have were coming off, from farm backgrounds?

[User] Farm backgrounds.

[Assistant] So you weren't the oddball in the group.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, from everywhere, you know, there was an. Most of the group was fairly young, either right out of college. There were several who had not started college at all. And then we were in the middle, you know, of our degree programs at the time. There was one couple. He was a retired extension agent from Kentucky and his wife, who was probably, they were the oldest in our group. There was a couple probably in their forties or so. And then there was a single woman who'd been a goat farmer in Florida. And then most of the rest were right out of college. Yeah, mostly right out of college.

[Assistant] But a fair number have were coming off, from farm backgrounds?

[User] Farm backgrounds.

[Assistant] So you weren't the oddball in the group.

[User] No, we weren't the oddball in the group. They were quite a few farm kids, young people. Well, not just young because the retired extension agent. And the goat farmer.

[Assistant] Tell me about the structure of training, how was that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The training was extremely intense and actually my first shock was when we got our training schedules because of my first name being Billie, even though at that point I went by my middle name, which was Jean, I got an assignment to this tropical agriculture training. The training was divided into tropical agriculture, I think. Well, I guess tropical agriculture included both the highlands and the tropics, the way we did that. And then home economics. And so I went to the person who was in charge of the home economics portion of the training and said, I think you've made a mistake. You know, I'm a home economics major. And she looked at me and she said, well, um, all of the other females in the program don't have the kind of background like you have. So there were men who had the ag backgrounds, but the females tended not to.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so we have decided that we're going to put you in tropical agriculture training because you already have done or know all the things that we're going to be covering in in the home economics portion of the training. You know, they killed a chicken one day and everyone was talking about killing the chicken. Well, you know, I'd killed and dressed hundreds of them.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] And so, you know, that was the right decision. She had to convince me, though, that the whole training staff had talked about it, that the ag people and she had talked about it.

[Assistant] Was Dave in the same group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so we have decided that we're going to put you in tropical agriculture training because you already have done or know all the things that we're going to be covering in in the home economics portion of the training. You know, they killed a chicken one day and everyone was talking about killing the chicken. Well, you know, I'd killed and dressed hundreds of them.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] And so, you know, that was the right decision. She had to convince me, though, that the whole training staff had talked about it, that the ag people and she had talked about it.

[Assistant] Was Dave in the same group?

[User] Yes. Yeah. So he and I were in the same training as far as that part of it.

[Assistant] Right. Now, well, let's talk about the ag training. What was involved, I mean, what were they preparing you for?