[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The idealism was OK, but we're not always everything that we hope that we're going to become. But that's the reality of young adulthood is realizing that we're not going to be everything that we think that we might possibly be, and we're going to have to settle for what we got.

[Assistant] And if there's nothing wrong with that.

[User] No, because once you accept that, you can get on to living life and it's going to be full if you let it be.

[Assistant] Well, Pete, it sounds like you've had quite an interesting life experience.

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] Since you got out of the Peace Corps and including your time in the Peace Corps.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, because once you accept that, you can get on to living life and it's going to be full if you let it be.

[Assistant] Well, Pete, it sounds like you've had quite an interesting life experience.

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] Since you got out of the Peace Corps and including your time in the Peace Corps.

[User] Yeah, I would like to go back to Bolivia. I don't want to travel by myself. Just a lot of uncertainties and just language skills. Twenty five years ago, I would have risked not having the language skills.

[Assistant] Well, I think it gets a little more difficult to spend a long time. I was a Fulbright scholar in Jamaica, which, you know, I mean, it’s English, but they have that dialect. But it's time away from the family and all that. It gets harder I think the older you get.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] Since you got out of the Peace Corps and including your time in the Peace Corps.

[User] Yeah, I would like to go back to Bolivia. I don't want to travel by myself. Just a lot of uncertainties and just language skills. Twenty five years ago, I would have risked not having the language skills.

[Assistant] Well, I think it gets a little more difficult to spend a long time. I was a Fulbright scholar in Jamaica, which, you know, I mean, it’s English, but they have that dialect. But it's time away from the family and all that. It gets harder I think the older you get.

[User] So I don't know what the next chapter is. But I'm reasonably sure there is another. I went through a chapter of contemplating religious life. But. But passed through that.

[Assistant] Decided you didn't really want to do the ministry? At least not in a formal way.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I would like to go back to Bolivia. I don't want to travel by myself. Just a lot of uncertainties and just language skills. Twenty five years ago, I would have risked not having the language skills.

[Assistant] Well, I think it gets a little more difficult to spend a long time. I was a Fulbright scholar in Jamaica, which, you know, I mean, it’s English, but they have that dialect. But it's time away from the family and all that. It gets harder I think the older you get.

[User] So I don't know what the next chapter is. But I'm reasonably sure there is another. I went through a chapter of contemplating religious life. But. But passed through that.

[Assistant] Decided you didn't really want to do the ministry? At least not in a formal way.

[User] Well, not in a contemplative lifestyle. Although that would have been OK, too, because I'm reasonably sure that as a survivor, I would have found great forms of personal expression, and that was one of the things that I saw in that Trappist monastery that I spent a little time, that was. I marveled. That's such a diverse population could tolerate each other under one one roof.

[Assistant] At the Trappist monastery. Silence.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I don't know what the next chapter is. But I'm reasonably sure there is another. I went through a chapter of contemplating religious life. But. But passed through that.

[Assistant] Decided you didn't really want to do the ministry? At least not in a formal way.

[User] Well, not in a contemplative lifestyle. Although that would have been OK, too, because I'm reasonably sure that as a survivor, I would have found great forms of personal expression, and that was one of the things that I saw in that Trappist monastery that I spent a little time, that was. I marveled. That's such a diverse population could tolerate each other under one one roof.

[Assistant] At the Trappist monastery. Silence.

[User] Yeah, they were at times. But they were bright, mentally healthy people who managed to survive one another. And I look at the Peace Corps experience that we also managed to survive one another.

[Assistant] Which wasn't always easy, was it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, not in a contemplative lifestyle. Although that would have been OK, too, because I'm reasonably sure that as a survivor, I would have found great forms of personal expression, and that was one of the things that I saw in that Trappist monastery that I spent a little time, that was. I marveled. That's such a diverse population could tolerate each other under one one roof.

[Assistant] At the Trappist monastery. Silence.

[User] Yeah, they were at times. But they were bright, mentally healthy people who managed to survive one another. And I look at the Peace Corps experience that we also managed to survive one another.

[Assistant] Which wasn't always easy, was it?

[User] No, no. So that coming to gather is a very nostalgic thing for me, but it's also kind of like, it is kind of like getting a shot then that makes you feel different and it rekindles something. I get the same kind of rush from looking at artwork, if it's decent. It's exciting.

[Assistant] Well, I guess we've probably come to the end of this, so thank you Pete.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had met, in 1960 I had met John Kennedy. I was 11 years old.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] And I stood for hours in the rain in a little gas station in southern West Virginia, waiting for him to come through on a campaign stop. And he had become at 11 my hero to the point that I became somewhat obsessed and aggravated everyone with all the Kennedy stories, even at that age that I would tell. So it was really, I guess, natural. An interest in the world. I grew up in southern West Virginia coal mining town. We didn't travel a lot. And I dreamed of being places all around the world. So it was a combination of the two.

[Assistant] That's great. Did you pursue international issues in school?

[User] Somewhat.

[Assistant] What did you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I stood for hours in the rain in a little gas station in southern West Virginia, waiting for him to come through on a campaign stop. And he had become at 11 my hero to the point that I became somewhat obsessed and aggravated everyone with all the Kennedy stories, even at that age that I would tell. So it was really, I guess, natural. An interest in the world. I grew up in southern West Virginia coal mining town. We didn't travel a lot. And I dreamed of being places all around the world. So it was a combination of the two.

[Assistant] That's great. Did you pursue international issues in school?

[User] Somewhat.

[Assistant] What did you?

[User] My history, my background was history and then the geography.

[Assistant] Did you go to college?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Somewhat.

[Assistant] What did you?

[User] My history, my background was history and then the geography.

[Assistant] Did you go to college?

[User] Yes. Graduated West Virginia University with a degree in history, minor in geography, sociology and something else I don't remember. But yeah, then I did two years of graduate work at University of Akron in geography, and that was post Peace Corps. And I was there on a fellowship that I received because of my Peace Corps experience.

[Assistant] You might as well, so just talk about that. What kind of a fellowship did you get?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My history, my background was history and then the geography.

[Assistant] Did you go to college?

[User] Yes. Graduated West Virginia University with a degree in history, minor in geography, sociology and something else I don't remember. But yeah, then I did two years of graduate work at University of Akron in geography, and that was post Peace Corps. And I was there on a fellowship that I received because of my Peace Corps experience.

[Assistant] You might as well, so just talk about that. What kind of a fellowship did you get?

[User] Well, it was a graduate assistantship in the geography department at the University of Akron, and it paid everything, all my expenses for two years.

[Assistant] Oh, really? Wow.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Graduated West Virginia University with a degree in history, minor in geography, sociology and something else I don't remember. But yeah, then I did two years of graduate work at University of Akron in geography, and that was post Peace Corps. And I was there on a fellowship that I received because of my Peace Corps experience.

[Assistant] You might as well, so just talk about that. What kind of a fellowship did you get?

[User] Well, it was a graduate assistantship in the geography department at the University of Akron, and it paid everything, all my expenses for two years.

[Assistant] Oh, really? Wow.

[User] And the reason I received it was they had a professor who was interested in African studies and needed a graduate student with some experience in Africa.

[Assistant] So we'll circle back to that afterwards. So from age 11, you wanted to join the Peace Corps.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it was a graduate assistantship in the geography department at the University of Akron, and it paid everything, all my expenses for two years.

[Assistant] Oh, really? Wow.

[User] And the reason I received it was they had a professor who was interested in African studies and needed a graduate student with some experience in Africa.

[Assistant] So we'll circle back to that afterwards. So from age 11, you wanted to join the Peace Corps.

[User] Well, it wasn't. No, I receptive to. And I was wanting to before it was even there.

[Assistant] So how did you find out about the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the reason I received it was they had a professor who was interested in African studies and needed a graduate student with some experience in Africa.

[Assistant] So we'll circle back to that afterwards. So from age 11, you wanted to join the Peace Corps.

[User] Well, it wasn't. No, I receptive to. And I was wanting to before it was even there.

[Assistant] So how did you find out about the Peace Corps?

[User] Well, there was no recruiter in West Virginia. Surprise, surprise. There was a tear off coupon, maybe, or a sheet or something on a bulletin board. And that was it.

[Assistant] And this was after college?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it wasn't. No, I receptive to. And I was wanting to before it was even there.

[Assistant] So how did you find out about the Peace Corps?

[User] Well, there was no recruiter in West Virginia. Surprise, surprise. There was a tear off coupon, maybe, or a sheet or something on a bulletin board. And that was it.

[Assistant] And this was after college?

[User] In college, in college, my senior year, I'm thinking, what am I going to do? And it appears on the bulletin board and actually I did not meet anyone connected with Peace Corps until my orientation. My interviews were done by phone.

[Assistant] So you just saw on an ad on the bulletin board?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, there was no recruiter in West Virginia. Surprise, surprise. There was a tear off coupon, maybe, or a sheet or something on a bulletin board. And that was it.

[Assistant] And this was after college?

[User] In college, in college, my senior year, I'm thinking, what am I going to do? And it appears on the bulletin board and actually I did not meet anyone connected with Peace Corps until my orientation. My interviews were done by phone.

[Assistant] So you just saw on an ad on the bulletin board?

[User] On the bulletin board, yes.

[Assistant] Kind of passive outreach, one could say. What did your friends think about you joining the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In college, in college, my senior year, I'm thinking, what am I going to do? And it appears on the bulletin board and actually I did not meet anyone connected with Peace Corps until my orientation. My interviews were done by phone.

[Assistant] So you just saw on an ad on the bulletin board?

[User] On the bulletin board, yes.

[Assistant] Kind of passive outreach, one could say. What did your friends think about you joining the Peace Corps?

[User] I don't remember anyone thinking it was a bad idea. No one really wanted to try it themselves.

[Assistant] Did they think you were crazy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] On the bulletin board, yes.

[Assistant] Kind of passive outreach, one could say. What did your friends think about you joining the Peace Corps?

[User] I don't remember anyone thinking it was a bad idea. No one really wanted to try it themselves.

[Assistant] Did they think you were crazy?

[User] My mother did.

[Assistant] That was my next question. What your parents thought about this?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember anyone thinking it was a bad idea. No one really wanted to try it themselves.

[Assistant] Did they think you were crazy?

[User] My mother did.

[Assistant] That was my next question. What your parents thought about this?

[User] Yeah, my mother tried to bribe me. She said they would, my parents would pay for grad school if I would just go and not go to Africa. A lot of tears on her part.

[Assistant] What were they afraid of?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My mother did.

[Assistant] That was my next question. What your parents thought about this?

[User] Yeah, my mother tried to bribe me. She said they would, my parents would pay for grad school if I would just go and not go to Africa. A lot of tears on her part.

[Assistant] What were they afraid of?

[User] I don't know. Just the fact that I was so far away from home.

[Assistant] So are you an only child?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, my mother tried to bribe me. She said they would, my parents would pay for grad school if I would just go and not go to Africa. A lot of tears on her part.

[Assistant] What were they afraid of?

[User] I don't know. Just the fact that I was so far away from home.

[Assistant] So are you an only child?

[User] No, the oldest of five. So there are plenty of others to occupy her.

[Assistant] But the oldest.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know. Just the fact that I was so far away from home.

[Assistant] So are you an only child?

[User] No, the oldest of five. So there are plenty of others to occupy her.

[Assistant] But the oldest.

[User] The first to leave.

[Assistant] Ok, so you, you saw this ad, you applied and how long was it before you heard from Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, the oldest of five. So there are plenty of others to occupy her.

[Assistant] But the oldest.

[User] The first to leave.

[Assistant] Ok, so you, you saw this ad, you applied and how long was it before you heard from Peace Corps?

[User] You know, I'm not sure. I know I probably before Christmas applied and I'd almost forgotten about it, and I get a phone call or a letter saying someone will be calling you. I don't remember. It may have been a letter or a postcard that says, we like to do an interview with you on the phone. Just so they knew, I knew that somebody would be calling me.

[Assistant] Do you have any recollection of what the interview covered?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The first to leave.

[Assistant] Ok, so you, you saw this ad, you applied and how long was it before you heard from Peace Corps?

[User] You know, I'm not sure. I know I probably before Christmas applied and I'd almost forgotten about it, and I get a phone call or a letter saying someone will be calling you. I don't remember. It may have been a letter or a postcard that says, we like to do an interview with you on the phone. Just so they knew, I knew that somebody would be calling me.

[Assistant] Do you have any recollection of what the interview covered?

[User] No.

[Assistant] OK. So you were selected?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I'm not sure. I know I probably before Christmas applied and I'd almost forgotten about it, and I get a phone call or a letter saying someone will be calling you. I don't remember. It may have been a letter or a postcard that says, we like to do an interview with you on the phone. Just so they knew, I knew that somebody would be calling me.

[Assistant] Do you have any recollection of what the interview covered?

[User] No.

[Assistant] OK. So you were selected?

[User] I was selected.

[Assistant] Did they immediately assign you to Chad?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] OK. So you were selected?

[User] I was selected.

[Assistant] Did they immediately assign you to Chad?

[User] I had asked for something in the Pacific, which is why they put me in the middle of Africa as far from the ocean as you could be. I was a little disappointed. But then I got excited about it.

[Assistant] Had you ever heard about Chad?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was selected.

[Assistant] Did they immediately assign you to Chad?

[User] I had asked for something in the Pacific, which is why they put me in the middle of Africa as far from the ocean as you could be. I was a little disappointed. But then I got excited about it.

[Assistant] Had you ever heard about Chad?

[User] No. No.

[Assistant] So you had to go and look at an atlas, but you were a geographer, so.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had asked for something in the Pacific, which is why they put me in the middle of Africa as far from the ocean as you could be. I was a little disappointed. But then I got excited about it.

[Assistant] Had you ever heard about Chad?

[User] No. No.

[Assistant] So you had to go and look at an atlas, but you were a geographer, so.

[User] Yes, well, I knew a little bit about African geography and had had a at least one African history course, but no mention of Chad in it. Lake Chad, maybe because of the caravans pass through, but no.

[Assistant] Ok, so you got the letter assigned to Chad. Where did you meet with the rest of the group? This was 1970.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. No.

[Assistant] So you had to go and look at an atlas, but you were a geographer, so.

[User] Yes, well, I knew a little bit about African geography and had had a at least one African history course, but no mention of Chad in it. Lake Chad, maybe because of the caravans pass through, but no.

[Assistant] Ok, so you got the letter assigned to Chad. Where did you meet with the rest of the group? This was 1970.

[User] 1970. We had a training orientation in Philadelphia for a week. Yeah, that's when they checked if your eyes were, if you needed new glasses, you got glasses. We were told to have all of our fillings replaced before we arrived and they were checked by a dentist and redone if they needed to be. And one of the dentists they sent people to required everyone to have their wisdom teeth pulled. So I was very lucky I didn't get that dentist. And we started our inoculations. Of course there was, there were sessions we went to and there's still plenty of time to enjoy Philadelphia.

[Assistant] And how many people came to training? How big was your group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, well, I knew a little bit about African geography and had had a at least one African history course, but no mention of Chad in it. Lake Chad, maybe because of the caravans pass through, but no.

[Assistant] Ok, so you got the letter assigned to Chad. Where did you meet with the rest of the group? This was 1970.

[User] 1970. We had a training orientation in Philadelphia for a week. Yeah, that's when they checked if your eyes were, if you needed new glasses, you got glasses. We were told to have all of our fillings replaced before we arrived and they were checked by a dentist and redone if they needed to be. And one of the dentists they sent people to required everyone to have their wisdom teeth pulled. So I was very lucky I didn't get that dentist. And we started our inoculations. Of course there was, there were sessions we went to and there's still plenty of time to enjoy Philadelphia.

[Assistant] And how many people came to training? How big was your group?

[User] A hundred and something. It was Francophone Africa, everything from Senegal to Chad and Cameroon.

[Assistant] Oh, so it was not just for Chad.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] 1970. We had a training orientation in Philadelphia for a week. Yeah, that's when they checked if your eyes were, if you needed new glasses, you got glasses. We were told to have all of our fillings replaced before we arrived and they were checked by a dentist and redone if they needed to be. And one of the dentists they sent people to required everyone to have their wisdom teeth pulled. So I was very lucky I didn't get that dentist. And we started our inoculations. Of course there was, there were sessions we went to and there's still plenty of time to enjoy Philadelphia.

[Assistant] And how many people came to training? How big was your group?

[User] A hundred and something. It was Francophone Africa, everything from Senegal to Chad and Cameroon.

[Assistant] Oh, so it was not just for Chad.

[User] No, we went after a week. We took the buses. We took buses up to northern New York and to Quebec, arriving on the twenty fourth of June, John the Baptist Day, which is a holiday in Quebec. And we went to a little town east of Quebec City on the St. Lawrence, Sainte-Anne-de-la-Pocatiere. And we occupied their school there, boarding school of some type, up on the hill, looking out onto the river. Beautiful little town. No one would speak English. They knew English. They being classic che ve qu'à. You had to twist their arms to get an English word out of some of them.

[Assistant] So you went up to Quebec to learn French.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A hundred and something. It was Francophone Africa, everything from Senegal to Chad and Cameroon.

[Assistant] Oh, so it was not just for Chad.

[User] No, we went after a week. We took the buses. We took buses up to northern New York and to Quebec, arriving on the twenty fourth of June, John the Baptist Day, which is a holiday in Quebec. And we went to a little town east of Quebec City on the St. Lawrence, Sainte-Anne-de-la-Pocatiere. And we occupied their school there, boarding school of some type, up on the hill, looking out onto the river. Beautiful little town. No one would speak English. They knew English. They being classic che ve qu'à. You had to twist their arms to get an English word out of some of them.

[Assistant] So you went up to Quebec to learn French.

[User] To learn French, we did a little African culture and we had a teacher education.

[Assistant] Oh, so you did all of your training all up in Quebec?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, we went after a week. We took the buses. We took buses up to northern New York and to Quebec, arriving on the twenty fourth of June, John the Baptist Day, which is a holiday in Quebec. And we went to a little town east of Quebec City on the St. Lawrence, Sainte-Anne-de-la-Pocatiere. And we occupied their school there, boarding school of some type, up on the hill, looking out onto the river. Beautiful little town. No one would speak English. They knew English. They being classic che ve qu'à. You had to twist their arms to get an English word out of some of them.

[Assistant] So you went up to Quebec to learn French.

[User] To learn French, we did a little African culture and we had a teacher education.

[Assistant] Oh, so you did all of your training all up in Quebec?

[User] Almost all. We were there until sometime in August. Then we flew to.

[Assistant] March. So April, May, June.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] To learn French, we did a little African culture and we had a teacher education.

[Assistant] Oh, so you did all of your training all up in Quebec?

[User] Almost all. We were there until sometime in August. Then we flew to.

[Assistant] March. So April, May, June.

[User] No, this is June.

[Assistant] Oh, June. So it's three months.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Almost all. We were there until sometime in August. Then we flew to.

[Assistant] March. So April, May, June.

[User] No, this is June.

[Assistant] Oh, June. So it's three months.

[User] June, all July and the first of August. Part of June. Two months. Then we went from Quebec to different destinations in West Africa. There were 13 of us went to Chad and I don't know how many went to Niger, but we went to the capital of Niger, Niamey, and did a three week training session. Therefore, we were doing teaching the little summer school with the students there.

[Assistant] Let's spend a little more time on training. Did you think the language training was good? Did you learn French?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, this is June.

[Assistant] Oh, June. So it's three months.

[User] June, all July and the first of August. Part of June. Two months. Then we went from Quebec to different destinations in West Africa. There were 13 of us went to Chad and I don't know how many went to Niger, but we went to the capital of Niger, Niamey, and did a three week training session. Therefore, we were doing teaching the little summer school with the students there.

[Assistant] Let's spend a little more time on training. Did you think the language training was good? Did you learn French?

[User] I struggled. I struggled with my French. Although I'd had it in high school and in college, it was still difficult. However, when I got to Chad, I found that my level of French was about the same as most of the Chadians. We could communicate a whole lot better than either of us could communicate with the French that were there.

[Assistant] So because you were at the very basic level.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] June, all July and the first of August. Part of June. Two months. Then we went from Quebec to different destinations in West Africa. There were 13 of us went to Chad and I don't know how many went to Niger, but we went to the capital of Niger, Niamey, and did a three week training session. Therefore, we were doing teaching the little summer school with the students there.

[Assistant] Let's spend a little more time on training. Did you think the language training was good? Did you learn French?

[User] I struggled. I struggled with my French. Although I'd had it in high school and in college, it was still difficult. However, when I got to Chad, I found that my level of French was about the same as most of the Chadians. We could communicate a whole lot better than either of us could communicate with the French that were there.

[Assistant] So because you were at the very basic level.

[User] Yeah, we knew, we understood each other. Yes.

[Assistant] That's interesting. And what was the teacher training program like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I struggled. I struggled with my French. Although I'd had it in high school and in college, it was still difficult. However, when I got to Chad, I found that my level of French was about the same as most of the Chadians. We could communicate a whole lot better than either of us could communicate with the French that were there.

[Assistant] So because you were at the very basic level.

[User] Yeah, we knew, we understood each other. Yes.

[Assistant] That's interesting. And what was the teacher training program like?

[User] It was very effective. It was very effective. And I had almost done my education program as an undergraduate. So I'd had the basics, everything except teacher student teaching. And they brought in these really cute little kids from the town. Delightful, charming Quebecois. And we were supposed to be really militant with them. Real stern, make them march in stand until everyone was ready to be seated, and they would have to stand to ask you a question. And of course, we had. Once we started doing our presentations, there would be a committee in the back of the other people who were in that training group who would critique, along with the instructor, the other potential volunteers. But the other candidates were back to critiquing us. And then after class, they would go through it. So it was it was really very good.

[Assistant] But why? Why did you have to be so strict? Was that preparing you for West Africa?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we knew, we understood each other. Yes.

[Assistant] That's interesting. And what was the teacher training program like?

[User] It was very effective. It was very effective. And I had almost done my education program as an undergraduate. So I'd had the basics, everything except teacher student teaching. And they brought in these really cute little kids from the town. Delightful, charming Quebecois. And we were supposed to be really militant with them. Real stern, make them march in stand until everyone was ready to be seated, and they would have to stand to ask you a question. And of course, we had. Once we started doing our presentations, there would be a committee in the back of the other people who were in that training group who would critique, along with the instructor, the other potential volunteers. But the other candidates were back to critiquing us. And then after class, they would go through it. So it was it was really very good.

[Assistant] But why? Why did you have to be so strict? Was that preparing you for West Africa?

[User] You know, I'm not real sure exactly why the strictness, except when we get to the school, they're college students in and around. In Chad, where I was, the middle school, most of the teachers there were ex-pat French. I think there are one or two militaire who are doing the teaching in lieu of military service in France. There were two African teachers, although they weren't Chadians, and me. And I quickly learned that the less I had to do with the French teachers, a happier I would be. I thought of them as the scum of French society. These were people who, the director of the school carried a metal pipe. And if you thought a student was misbehaving in your classroom, he had them stand and beat them. He also beat his wife. You know, these weren't really nice people.

[Assistant]
Wow.

They could come there, the former colony, and they were literally the big fish in a small pond.

Yeah, and they had been there from colonial time on?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was very effective. It was very effective. And I had almost done my education program as an undergraduate. So I'd had the basics, everything except teacher student teaching. And they brought in these really cute little kids from the town. Delightful, charming Quebecois. And we were supposed to be really militant with them. Real stern, make them march in stand until everyone was ready to be seated, and they would have to stand to ask you a question. And of course, we had. Once we started doing our presentations, there would be a committee in the back of the other people who were in that training group who would critique, along with the instructor, the other potential volunteers. But the other candidates were back to critiquing us. And then after class, they would go through it. So it was it was really very good.

[Assistant] But why? Why did you have to be so strict? Was that preparing you for West Africa?

[User] You know, I'm not real sure exactly why the strictness, except when we get to the school, they're college students in and around. In Chad, where I was, the middle school, most of the teachers there were ex-pat French. I think there are one or two militaire who are doing the teaching in lieu of military service in France. There were two African teachers, although they weren't Chadians, and me. And I quickly learned that the less I had to do with the French teachers, a happier I would be. I thought of them as the scum of French society. These were people who, the director of the school carried a metal pipe. And if you thought a student was misbehaving in your classroom, he had them stand and beat them. He also beat his wife. You know, these weren't really nice people.

[Assistant]
Wow.

They could come there, the former colony, and they were literally the big fish in a small pond.

Yeah, and they had been there from colonial time on?

[User] Quite possibly, yeah. You know, this is only the first decade of independence there in Chad.

[Assistant] I was going to ask, so it's soon after independence?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I'm not real sure exactly why the strictness, except when we get to the school, they're college students in and around. In Chad, where I was, the middle school, most of the teachers there were ex-pat French. I think there are one or two militaire who are doing the teaching in lieu of military service in France. There were two African teachers, although they weren't Chadians, and me. And I quickly learned that the less I had to do with the French teachers, a happier I would be. I thought of them as the scum of French society. These were people who, the director of the school carried a metal pipe. And if you thought a student was misbehaving in your classroom, he had them stand and beat them. He also beat his wife. You know, these weren't really nice people.

[Assistant]
Wow.

They could come there, the former colony, and they were literally the big fish in a small pond.

Yeah, and they had been there from colonial time on?

[User] Quite possibly, yeah. You know, this is only the first decade of independence there in Chad.

[Assistant] I was going to ask, so it's soon after independence?

[User] Soon after independence.

[Assistant] '64 or '65, maybe. Now you were there in '70.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Quite possibly, yeah. You know, this is only the first decade of independence there in Chad.

[Assistant] I was going to ask, so it's soon after independence?

[User] Soon after independence.

[Assistant] '64 or '65, maybe. Now you were there in '70.

[User] I was there in 1970. Independence, I think, was '61 or '62. I don't remember right now, but I do recall going to the post office and you could see where the clock had hung on the wall when the French ran the country and when they pulled out, they took the clock off the wall and you could see where it had been because they had painted around it instead of taking it off to paint.

[Assistant] Just let's go back to training for a moment. What was the cross-cultural training like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Soon after independence.

[Assistant] '64 or '65, maybe. Now you were there in '70.

[User] I was there in 1970. Independence, I think, was '61 or '62. I don't remember right now, but I do recall going to the post office and you could see where the clock had hung on the wall when the French ran the country and when they pulled out, they took the clock off the wall and you could see where it had been because they had painted around it instead of taking it off to paint.

[Assistant] Just let's go back to training for a moment. What was the cross-cultural training like?

[User] Some of it was taught by our PCVs. They brought a few host country nationals over to talk with us, just trying to get us acquainted or accustomed to some of the things that we would be confronted with or confronted this not really confrontation that we would encounter.

[Assistant] Did it prepare you for Chad?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was there in 1970. Independence, I think, was '61 or '62. I don't remember right now, but I do recall going to the post office and you could see where the clock had hung on the wall when the French ran the country and when they pulled out, they took the clock off the wall and you could see where it had been because they had painted around it instead of taking it off to paint.

[Assistant] Just let's go back to training for a moment. What was the cross-cultural training like?

[User] Some of it was taught by our PCVs. They brought a few host country nationals over to talk with us, just trying to get us acquainted or accustomed to some of the things that we would be confronted with or confronted this not really confrontation that we would encounter.

[Assistant] Did it prepare you for Chad?

[User] I think so. Although it takes a little while to get used to some of the nudity, even though you may be very open minded, it's kind of hard.

[Assistant] Well, what kind of nudity?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Some of it was taught by our PCVs. They brought a few host country nationals over to talk with us, just trying to get us acquainted or accustomed to some of the things that we would be confronted with or confronted this not really confrontation that we would encounter.

[Assistant] Did it prepare you for Chad?

[User] I think so. Although it takes a little while to get used to some of the nudity, even though you may be very open minded, it's kind of hard.

[Assistant] Well, what kind of nudity?

[User] Women would most of the time be topless. There were still villages I passed through them on a little moped where they would wear grass skirts and one or two villages I went through where all they wore was one string of beads, and I was trying to figure out the difference between the male and female beads. That's my sociology background, I guess. So we still encountered that at that time.

[Assistant] Huh. And the men, what did the men wear?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think so. Although it takes a little while to get used to some of the nudity, even though you may be very open minded, it's kind of hard.

[Assistant] Well, what kind of nudity?

[User] Women would most of the time be topless. There were still villages I passed through them on a little moped where they would wear grass skirts and one or two villages I went through where all they wore was one string of beads, and I was trying to figure out the difference between the male and female beads. That's my sociology background, I guess. So we still encountered that at that time.

[Assistant] Huh. And the men, what did the men wear?

[User] The men wore, in most of the villages, would wear the shorts and a western shirt. A lot of clothing that came out of. Apparently, when clothes were donated, I don't know if it still happens, but when clothes were donated, they were shipped to the West Coast. A trucker would go and pick up a load and bring it back and sell it at very low cost, but to cover his cost inland. So a lot of the clothing we saw was the stuff that came from the U.S.

[Assistant] Yeah, I think that's still going on in lots of countries. Yeah. There's a famous book called The Life of a T-shirt. Something like that. So you finished your training up in Quebec, and did you then fly directly from there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Women would most of the time be topless. There were still villages I passed through them on a little moped where they would wear grass skirts and one or two villages I went through where all they wore was one string of beads, and I was trying to figure out the difference between the male and female beads. That's my sociology background, I guess. So we still encountered that at that time.

[Assistant] Huh. And the men, what did the men wear?

[User] The men wore, in most of the villages, would wear the shorts and a western shirt. A lot of clothing that came out of. Apparently, when clothes were donated, I don't know if it still happens, but when clothes were donated, they were shipped to the West Coast. A trucker would go and pick up a load and bring it back and sell it at very low cost, but to cover his cost inland. So a lot of the clothing we saw was the stuff that came from the U.S.

[Assistant] Yeah, I think that's still going on in lots of countries. Yeah. There's a famous book called The Life of a T-shirt. Something like that. So you finished your training up in Quebec, and did you then fly directly from there?

[User] We flew from Montreal to New York City, had a weekend off, which was an experience for someone who'd never been to New York before. One of the guys in the group said he knew an inexpensive hotel just happened to be somewhere between Chinatown and Harlem.

[Assistant] And it's a long distance from Chinatown to Harlem.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The men wore, in most of the villages, would wear the shorts and a western shirt. A lot of clothing that came out of. Apparently, when clothes were donated, I don't know if it still happens, but when clothes were donated, they were shipped to the West Coast. A trucker would go and pick up a load and bring it back and sell it at very low cost, but to cover his cost inland. So a lot of the clothing we saw was the stuff that came from the U.S.

[Assistant] Yeah, I think that's still going on in lots of countries. Yeah. There's a famous book called The Life of a T-shirt. Something like that. So you finished your training up in Quebec, and did you then fly directly from there?

[User] We flew from Montreal to New York City, had a weekend off, which was an experience for someone who'd never been to New York before. One of the guys in the group said he knew an inexpensive hotel just happened to be somewhere between Chinatown and Harlem.

[Assistant] And it's a long distance from Chinatown to Harlem.

[User] It was a transition area. You had a large black American community and you still had some Chinese shops. But I do remember is the noise scared me so much. Glass breaking and the shouting, whatever. At some point during the night, I got up and moved the dresser over in front of the hotel room door. And the next morning I got the phone book out and started looking for anyone I had known in college who lived in New York to come and get me.

[Assistant] It was that bad?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We flew from Montreal to New York City, had a weekend off, which was an experience for someone who'd never been to New York before. One of the guys in the group said he knew an inexpensive hotel just happened to be somewhere between Chinatown and Harlem.

[Assistant] And it's a long distance from Chinatown to Harlem.

[User] It was a transition area. You had a large black American community and you still had some Chinese shops. But I do remember is the noise scared me so much. Glass breaking and the shouting, whatever. At some point during the night, I got up and moved the dresser over in front of the hotel room door. And the next morning I got the phone book out and started looking for anyone I had known in college who lived in New York to come and get me.

[Assistant] It was that bad?

[User] It was that bad. Of course, you're talking about a guy who lived a very sheltered existence in this small town in West Virginia, you know.

[Assistant] So that was your first cross-cultural experience.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a transition area. You had a large black American community and you still had some Chinese shops. But I do remember is the noise scared me so much. Glass breaking and the shouting, whatever. At some point during the night, I got up and moved the dresser over in front of the hotel room door. And the next morning I got the phone book out and started looking for anyone I had known in college who lived in New York to come and get me.

[Assistant] It was that bad?

[User] It was that bad. Of course, you're talking about a guy who lived a very sheltered existence in this small town in West Virginia, you know.

[Assistant] So that was your first cross-cultural experience.

[User] That was, oh, that was a big cross-cultural experience.

[Assistant] More so than Canada and French?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was that bad. Of course, you're talking about a guy who lived a very sheltered existence in this small town in West Virginia, you know.

[Assistant] So that was your first cross-cultural experience.

[User] That was, oh, that was a big cross-cultural experience.

[Assistant] More so than Canada and French?

[User] Yes. I felt safe in Canada. I didn't feel so safe there.

[Assistant] Did the other volunteers feel that way as well, or was it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was, oh, that was a big cross-cultural experience.

[Assistant] More so than Canada and French?

[User] Yes. I felt safe in Canada. I didn't feel so safe there.

[Assistant] Did the other volunteers feel that way as well, or was it?

[User] That stayed there in the hotel? I'm the one that left. I'm the one that left.

[Assistant] Good. So then you hopped on a plane and how did you get to Chad?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I felt safe in Canada. I didn't feel so safe there.

[Assistant] Did the other volunteers feel that way as well, or was it?

[User] That stayed there in the hotel? I'm the one that left. I'm the one that left.

[Assistant] Good. So then you hopped on a plane and how did you get to Chad?

[User] Actually, we hopped on several planes before we could actually leave the airport. This was when the jumbo jets were just coming out and I've lost track. We were supposed to have left at 6:30 in the evening on a Sunday, and I think it was like 3:00 or 4:00 Monday morning. It was a whole series of problems. Something was wrong. They were waiting for a part to come. They sent the wrong part. They put us on a plane at least twice. At one point it was they had to wait on a new flight crew to come because the other crew had been on too long. They took us off, put us on, took us off, gave everyone free drinks. We got a dinner and we got another dinner on the plane. Free drinks across the ocean. And we were late arriving in Brussels. And the next flight from Brussels to Niamey was a week later. So the airline sent us to Paris for the night, and that was a nice experience. We boarded Air Afrique the next day and started our flight across the Mediterranean and the Sahara to.

[Assistant] So instead of staying in Brussels, you then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That stayed there in the hotel? I'm the one that left. I'm the one that left.

[Assistant] Good. So then you hopped on a plane and how did you get to Chad?

[User] Actually, we hopped on several planes before we could actually leave the airport. This was when the jumbo jets were just coming out and I've lost track. We were supposed to have left at 6:30 in the evening on a Sunday, and I think it was like 3:00 or 4:00 Monday morning. It was a whole series of problems. Something was wrong. They were waiting for a part to come. They sent the wrong part. They put us on a plane at least twice. At one point it was they had to wait on a new flight crew to come because the other crew had been on too long. They took us off, put us on, took us off, gave everyone free drinks. We got a dinner and we got another dinner on the plane. Free drinks across the ocean. And we were late arriving in Brussels. And the next flight from Brussels to Niamey was a week later. So the airline sent us to Paris for the night, and that was a nice experience. We boarded Air Afrique the next day and started our flight across the Mediterranean and the Sahara to.

[Assistant] So instead of staying in Brussels, you then.

[User] We weren't to stay in Brussels. We were supposed to be flying.

[Assistant] But you flew to.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Actually, we hopped on several planes before we could actually leave the airport. This was when the jumbo jets were just coming out and I've lost track. We were supposed to have left at 6:30 in the evening on a Sunday, and I think it was like 3:00 or 4:00 Monday morning. It was a whole series of problems. Something was wrong. They were waiting for a part to come. They sent the wrong part. They put us on a plane at least twice. At one point it was they had to wait on a new flight crew to come because the other crew had been on too long. They took us off, put us on, took us off, gave everyone free drinks. We got a dinner and we got another dinner on the plane. Free drinks across the ocean. And we were late arriving in Brussels. And the next flight from Brussels to Niamey was a week later. So the airline sent us to Paris for the night, and that was a nice experience. We boarded Air Afrique the next day and started our flight across the Mediterranean and the Sahara to.

[Assistant] So instead of staying in Brussels, you then.

[User] We weren't to stay in Brussels. We were supposed to be flying.

[Assistant] But you flew to.

[User] Yeah, instead of spending a week in Brussels for another plane to come. It was much cheaper just to send us to Paris.

[Assistant] So you got New York, so you got from West Virginia to Canada to New York to Paris.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We weren't to stay in Brussels. We were supposed to be flying.

[Assistant] But you flew to.

[User] Yeah, instead of spending a week in Brussels for another plane to come. It was much cheaper just to send us to Paris.

[Assistant] So you got New York, so you got from West Virginia to Canada to New York to Paris.

[User] By way of Brussels.

[Assistant] By way of Brussels.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, instead of spending a week in Brussels for another plane to come. It was much cheaper just to send us to Paris.

[Assistant] So you got New York, so you got from West Virginia to Canada to New York to Paris.

[User] By way of Brussels.

[Assistant] By way of Brussels.

[User] Next stop was Niamey, Niger. Yes. Beautiful flying over. Niger in French.

[Assistant] Ah, but you are going to Chad. Why did you fly into Niger?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] By way of Brussels.

[Assistant] By way of Brussels.

[User] Next stop was Niamey, Niger. Yes. Beautiful flying over. Niger in French.

[Assistant] Ah, but you are going to Chad. Why did you fly into Niger?

[User] We were doing combined through training.

[Assistant] Oh, I see.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Next stop was Niamey, Niger. Yes. Beautiful flying over. Niger in French.

[Assistant] Ah, but you are going to Chad. Why did you fly into Niger?

[User] We were doing combined through training.

[Assistant] Oh, I see.

[User] Yes. At the lycée national in Niamey, the national high school.

[Assistant] And so that was still combined training for Chad and the group that was going to Niger.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were doing combined through training.

[Assistant] Oh, I see.

[User] Yes. At the lycée national in Niamey, the national high school.

[Assistant] And so that was still combined training for Chad and the group that was going to Niger.

[User] That state of Niger. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yes. And how long did that training last?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. At the lycée national in Niamey, the national high school.

[Assistant] And so that was still combined training for Chad and the group that was going to Niger.

[User] That state of Niger. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yes. And how long did that training last?

[User] Three weeks. I remember that one, three weeks. So we had gone from one hundred and some people down to roughly 26 to 30. And after three weeks, we were down to 13 and then the next step was down to two going on the same plane together. Yes.

[Assistant] So wait, 13 ended up going to Chad.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That state of Niger. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yes. And how long did that training last?

[User] Three weeks. I remember that one, three weeks. So we had gone from one hundred and some people down to roughly 26 to 30. And after three weeks, we were down to 13 and then the next step was down to two going on the same plane together. Yes.

[Assistant] So wait, 13 ended up going to Chad.

[User] To Chad. We spent a few days at Fort Lamy, which is in N'Djamena, the capital. And then they started putting us on flights out to our destinations.

[Assistant] Let's just go back to Niger for the moment. So you've been exposed to all kinds of new things. What was your impression of Niger?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a great, oh yes, my first 36 hours were really a challenge.

[Assistant] You're ready to hop back on the plane.

[User] Well, at that point, I don't know how long I would have waited for a flight. So no, I survived it. I survived it. The teaching was good. I enjoyed that three weeks there. We were starting to feel like we knew what we were doing. The staff was very supportive. I did a little business venture there. We had, the embassy had sent over, the American embassy had sent over a refrigerator for us to use. And we were a little distance out from the bars and anything else. So getting even soft drinks was a little bit of a task to get there and back. And I decided we would form a co-op. And each person put in one hundred francs or whatever, it was, maybe two hundred. And we hired the custodian to walk in and get the fuel for the refrigerator and buy the soft drinks by the case and we set it up as an honor system. So you had the cold drinks there. You put your money in. We ended up making like 700 percent profit after three weeks. We had the convenience of the drinks, so everyone got their initial investment back, plus the profit and the convenience of having the drinks there. I'm always good at making money for other people, never for myself.

[Assistant] So why did you charge so much for the drinks?

[User] Oh no, we were competitive.

[Assistant] Oh, other people, it wasn't just for yourself.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, at that point, I don't know how long I would have waited for a flight. So no, I survived it. I survived it. The teaching was good. I enjoyed that three weeks there. We were starting to feel like we knew what we were doing. The staff was very supportive. I did a little business venture there. We had, the embassy had sent over, the American embassy had sent over a refrigerator for us to use. And we were a little distance out from the bars and anything else. So getting even soft drinks was a little bit of a task to get there and back. And I decided we would form a co-op. And each person put in one hundred francs or whatever, it was, maybe two hundred. And we hired the custodian to walk in and get the fuel for the refrigerator and buy the soft drinks by the case and we set it up as an honor system. So you had the cold drinks there. You put your money in. We ended up making like 700 percent profit after three weeks. We had the convenience of the drinks, so everyone got their initial investment back, plus the profit and the convenience of having the drinks there. I'm always good at making money for other people, never for myself.

[Assistant] So why did you charge so much for the drinks?

[User] Oh no, we were competitive.

[Assistant] Oh, other people, it wasn't just for yourself.

[User] Oh no, no, no. Everyone, even including the investors, had to pay for their drinks when they bought them. Yeah. And we priced them the same as if you're going into town. We didn't charge you any extra for the convenience, no. And still made money on it.

[Assistant] Well, that's a good way to start.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh no, no, no. Everyone, even including the investors, had to pay for their drinks when they bought them. Yeah. And we priced them the same as if you're going into town. We didn't charge you any extra for the convenience, no. And still made money on it.

[Assistant] Well, that's a good way to start.

[User] I remember the breakfast there more than any meal. We had long tables out under the trees there at the school, and the kitchen staff would bring out the coffee. The two pitchers of the hot milk and the coffee pouring them simultaneously into the cup and the bread it was.

[Assistant] Very French?

[User] Very French, very French.

[Assistant] Did you understand their French in Niger?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I remember the breakfast there more than any meal. We had long tables out under the trees there at the school, and the kitchen staff would bring out the coffee. The two pitchers of the hot milk and the coffee pouring them simultaneously into the cup and the bread it was.

[Assistant] Very French?

[User] Very French, very French.

[Assistant] Did you understand their French in Niger?

[User] As well as you would in Chad, yes, it was acceptable. Niamey was an interesting city. They have had maybe still have a very nice outdoor museum kind of patterned a little bit like Williamsburg, Virginia. And they had sample villages from each of the tribes brought there. They had music exhibits, they had other exhibits, and I took one of my classes on a field trip and took them down to the museum. They had to speak English the whole time, but it was fun and there were some nice restaurants there. It was a nice. I can't remember anything after the first night there with no mosquito net. I can't remember anything that was negative about being there.

[Assistant] It's great. Presumably you got a mosquito net?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Very French, very French.

[Assistant] Did you understand their French in Niger?

[User] As well as you would in Chad, yes, it was acceptable. Niamey was an interesting city. They have had maybe still have a very nice outdoor museum kind of patterned a little bit like Williamsburg, Virginia. And they had sample villages from each of the tribes brought there. They had music exhibits, they had other exhibits, and I took one of my classes on a field trip and took them down to the museum. They had to speak English the whole time, but it was fun and there were some nice restaurants there. It was a nice. I can't remember anything after the first night there with no mosquito net. I can't remember anything that was negative about being there.

[Assistant] It's great. Presumably you got a mosquito net?

[User] Yes, yes.

[Assistant] So after three weeks, the 13 of you then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] As well as you would in Chad, yes, it was acceptable. Niamey was an interesting city. They have had maybe still have a very nice outdoor museum kind of patterned a little bit like Williamsburg, Virginia. And they had sample villages from each of the tribes brought there. They had music exhibits, they had other exhibits, and I took one of my classes on a field trip and took them down to the museum. They had to speak English the whole time, but it was fun and there were some nice restaurants there. It was a nice. I can't remember anything after the first night there with no mosquito net. I can't remember anything that was negative about being there.

[Assistant] It's great. Presumably you got a mosquito net?

[User] Yes, yes.

[Assistant] So after three weeks, the 13 of you then?

[User] We got on a plane. We flew to Douala, Cameroon, on the coast, spent the night there, had a hotel with a balcony facing the Atlantic Ocean, just a block or two from the water and had a nice evening there. Then we started. We flew from Douala to Yaoundé, the capital on the interior, and then two more flights going north in Cameroon to Marawa Garoua. The airport at Garoua, the last place in Cameroon we landed at, was a grass runway and the terminal was a sheet of metal, four poles holding it up, and a wooden bench. And that was an international airport. I remember that one, particularly because I was having stomach issues and was in the restroom in the back of the plane when we landed. And I felt like it was the end of the world. Yes.

[Assistant] But so from Nigeria, you went to Cameroon before Chad. Why is that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, yes.

[Assistant] So after three weeks, the 13 of you then?

[User] We got on a plane. We flew to Douala, Cameroon, on the coast, spent the night there, had a hotel with a balcony facing the Atlantic Ocean, just a block or two from the water and had a nice evening there. Then we started. We flew from Douala to Yaoundé, the capital on the interior, and then two more flights going north in Cameroon to Marawa Garoua. The airport at Garoua, the last place in Cameroon we landed at, was a grass runway and the terminal was a sheet of metal, four poles holding it up, and a wooden bench. And that was an international airport. I remember that one, particularly because I was having stomach issues and was in the restroom in the back of the plane when we landed. And I felt like it was the end of the world. Yes.

[Assistant] But so from Nigeria, you went to Cameroon before Chad. Why is that?

[User] There were no direct flights from Niger to Chad although they are adjoining countries.

[Assistant] And that, was that because of bad political relations?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We got on a plane. We flew to Douala, Cameroon, on the coast, spent the night there, had a hotel with a balcony facing the Atlantic Ocean, just a block or two from the water and had a nice evening there. Then we started. We flew from Douala to Yaoundé, the capital on the interior, and then two more flights going north in Cameroon to Marawa Garoua. The airport at Garoua, the last place in Cameroon we landed at, was a grass runway and the terminal was a sheet of metal, four poles holding it up, and a wooden bench. And that was an international airport. I remember that one, particularly because I was having stomach issues and was in the restroom in the back of the plane when we landed. And I felt like it was the end of the world. Yes.

[Assistant] But so from Nigeria, you went to Cameroon before Chad. Why is that?

[User] There were no direct flights from Niger to Chad although they are adjoining countries.

[Assistant] And that, was that because of bad political relations?

[User] No, no. Just economics, I guess. There weren't that many people wanting to go from Chad to Niger.

[Assistant] Ok, so you went to Cameroon for one night basically.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were no direct flights from Niger to Chad although they are adjoining countries.

[Assistant] And that, was that because of bad political relations?

[User] No, no. Just economics, I guess. There weren't that many people wanting to go from Chad to Niger.

[Assistant] Ok, so you went to Cameroon for one night basically.

[User] We spent a night there on the coast and then the next day, traveling from airport to airport to airport to finally to Chad.

[Assistant] And what is? I should know this, but what is the capital of Chad?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. Just economics, I guess. There weren't that many people wanting to go from Chad to Niger.

[Assistant] Ok, so you went to Cameroon for one night basically.

[User] We spent a night there on the coast and then the next day, traveling from airport to airport to airport to finally to Chad.

[Assistant] And what is? I should know this, but what is the capital of Chad?

[User] It used to be Fort Lamy, L-A-M-Y, and now it's N'Djamena N-D-J-A-M-E-N-A if I'm spelling it correctly.

[Assistant] All right. So you get to Fort Lamy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We spent a night there on the coast and then the next day, traveling from airport to airport to airport to finally to Chad.

[Assistant] And what is? I should know this, but what is the capital of Chad?

[User] It used to be Fort Lamy, L-A-M-Y, and now it's N'Djamena N-D-J-A-M-E-N-A if I'm spelling it correctly.

[Assistant] All right. So you get to Fort Lamy?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And then what happens by this time? Have you gotten used to the heat?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It used to be Fort Lamy, L-A-M-Y, and now it's N'Djamena N-D-J-A-M-E-N-A if I'm spelling it correctly.

[Assistant] All right. So you get to Fort Lamy?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And then what happens by this time? Have you gotten used to the heat?

[User] Yes. Somewhat, somewhat.

[Assistant] Then what happened when you got to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And then what happens by this time? Have you gotten used to the heat?

[User] Yes. Somewhat, somewhat.

[Assistant] Then what happened when you got to?

[User] We had a couple of days in the capital and I don't really there's nothing that stands out. Probably more shots. We met with the Peace Corps staff. Maybe talk to some people from the embassy that kind of just the administrative things, and then they started getting travel arrangements for us and.

[Assistant] Where were you assigned?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Somewhat, somewhat.

[Assistant] Then what happened when you got to?

[User] We had a couple of days in the capital and I don't really there's nothing that stands out. Probably more shots. We met with the Peace Corps staff. Maybe talk to some people from the embassy that kind of just the administrative things, and then they started getting travel arrangements for us and.

[Assistant] Where were you assigned?

[User] I was assigned to the village of Doba, D-O-B-A, in the southern part of the country.

[Assistant] And were you the only one going to that post or was there somebody else?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had a couple of days in the capital and I don't really there's nothing that stands out. Probably more shots. We met with the Peace Corps staff. Maybe talk to some people from the embassy that kind of just the administrative things, and then they started getting travel arrangements for us and.

[Assistant] Where were you assigned?

[User] I was assigned to the village of Doba, D-O-B-A, in the southern part of the country.

[Assistant] And were you the only one going to that post or was there somebody else?

[User] I was the only one going to that post, yes.

[Assistant] And were other people going single singly as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was assigned to the village of Doba, D-O-B-A, in the southern part of the country.

[Assistant] And were you the only one going to that post or was there somebody else?

[User] I was the only one going to that post, yes.

[Assistant] And were other people going single singly as well?

[User] There weren't. I didn't know very many people who were in a city with another volunteer, whether it was teaching or anything. Yeah, the norm was single.

[Assistant] So we still had the 13 who came to the capital.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was the only one going to that post, yes.

[Assistant] And were other people going single singly as well?

[User] There weren't. I didn't know very many people who were in a city with another volunteer, whether it was teaching or anything. Yeah, the norm was single.

[Assistant] So we still had the 13 who came to the capital.

[User] Yes, and when we got on the plane, there were two of us. No, I think there were three or four that went to Mondou, which I think is still Mondou, M-O-U-N-D-O-U [sic], the airport closest to Doba. One was staying there and he had a housemate that was already there. We were able to stay with him until transportation can be arranged. This is end of August. And in the rainy season and at that time, Chad had no paved highways outside the capital city. So it was all sand and dirt, and there are barriers set up at the end of the city that you couldn't leave. They had one grader for the whole country.

[Assistant] Because it was too muddy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There weren't. I didn't know very many people who were in a city with another volunteer, whether it was teaching or anything. Yeah, the norm was single.

[Assistant] So we still had the 13 who came to the capital.

[User] Yes, and when we got on the plane, there were two of us. No, I think there were three or four that went to Mondou, which I think is still Mondou, M-O-U-N-D-O-U [sic], the airport closest to Doba. One was staying there and he had a housemate that was already there. We were able to stay with him until transportation can be arranged. This is end of August. And in the rainy season and at that time, Chad had no paved highways outside the capital city. So it was all sand and dirt, and there are barriers set up at the end of the city that you couldn't leave. They had one grader for the whole country.

[Assistant] Because it was too muddy?

[User] Too muddy. Yeah, and I would go down. I and one other volunteer would go down together and check out the situation each day until we could finally get on a truck and go. And finally, that happened. He made it to Doba with me and had to wait another day or two before he could get to his.

[Assistant] So he went even further.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, and when we got on the plane, there were two of us. No, I think there were three or four that went to Mondou, which I think is still Mondou, M-O-U-N-D-O-U [sic], the airport closest to Doba. One was staying there and he had a housemate that was already there. We were able to stay with him until transportation can be arranged. This is end of August. And in the rainy season and at that time, Chad had no paved highways outside the capital city. So it was all sand and dirt, and there are barriers set up at the end of the city that you couldn't leave. They had one grader for the whole country.

[Assistant] Because it was too muddy?

[User] Too muddy. Yeah, and I would go down. I and one other volunteer would go down together and check out the situation each day until we could finally get on a truck and go. And finally, that happened. He made it to Doba with me and had to wait another day or two before he could get to his.

[Assistant] So he went even further.

[User] He went even further. So I'd gone from a hundred and something down to the roughly 30 to the 13 to five of us. Now it's two. And it was I was a little anxious when my friend left finally because I was on my own for the first time.

[Assistant] Talk about what happened then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Too muddy. Yeah, and I would go down. I and one other volunteer would go down together and check out the situation each day until we could finally get on a truck and go. And finally, that happened. He made it to Doba with me and had to wait another day or two before he could get to his.

[Assistant] So he went even further.

[User] He went even further. So I'd gone from a hundred and something down to the roughly 30 to the 13 to five of us. Now it's two. And it was I was a little anxious when my friend left finally because I was on my own for the first time.

[Assistant] Talk about what happened then.

[User] No one spoke English. They were two missionaries that I found out about who were maybe 10 kilometers out of town, one from Canada and one from Australia, and they had the goodies for my house. My predecessor had been evicted, kicked out. He had committed broken a social taboo, and besides teaching, he had gotten involved with chicken raising and was trying to convince the men to fence the chickens and to feed them. And the governor got very upset about it because raising chickens is women's work. So while my predecessor was on vacation, the police were sent in and took all of his possessions, dumped them in the road and padlocked the house. And the missionaries happened to hear about it and went and picked up what they could to salvage for him. We were left with a list of, I guess, is fairly standard. There was a list of what was left for us. A house supplies, books, things like that on the inventory. So we knew what to expect when we got there.

[Assistant] And he just never went back to his post?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He went even further. So I'd gone from a hundred and something down to the roughly 30 to the 13 to five of us. Now it's two. And it was I was a little anxious when my friend left finally because I was on my own for the first time.

[Assistant] Talk about what happened then.

[User] No one spoke English. They were two missionaries that I found out about who were maybe 10 kilometers out of town, one from Canada and one from Australia, and they had the goodies for my house. My predecessor had been evicted, kicked out. He had committed broken a social taboo, and besides teaching, he had gotten involved with chicken raising and was trying to convince the men to fence the chickens and to feed them. And the governor got very upset about it because raising chickens is women's work. So while my predecessor was on vacation, the police were sent in and took all of his possessions, dumped them in the road and padlocked the house. And the missionaries happened to hear about it and went and picked up what they could to salvage for him. We were left with a list of, I guess, is fairly standard. There was a list of what was left for us. A house supplies, books, things like that on the inventory. So we knew what to expect when we got there.

[Assistant] And he just never went back to his post?

[User] I don't know exactly what happened to him. He wasn't permitted to go back. I don't know if they reassigned him or they sent him back? But there had been a gap.

[Assistant] All right. So you went and retrieved whatever it was and you moved back into the same house.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No one spoke English. They were two missionaries that I found out about who were maybe 10 kilometers out of town, one from Canada and one from Australia, and they had the goodies for my house. My predecessor had been evicted, kicked out. He had committed broken a social taboo, and besides teaching, he had gotten involved with chicken raising and was trying to convince the men to fence the chickens and to feed them. And the governor got very upset about it because raising chickens is women's work. So while my predecessor was on vacation, the police were sent in and took all of his possessions, dumped them in the road and padlocked the house. And the missionaries happened to hear about it and went and picked up what they could to salvage for him. We were left with a list of, I guess, is fairly standard. There was a list of what was left for us. A house supplies, books, things like that on the inventory. So we knew what to expect when we got there.

[Assistant] And he just never went back to his post?

[User] I don't know exactly what happened to him. He wasn't permitted to go back. I don't know if they reassigned him or they sent him back? But there had been a gap.

[Assistant] All right. So you went and retrieved whatever it was and you moved back into the same house.

[User] I don't know if it's the same house or not. But French teachers lived in the compound with a fence around it and a generator, and the rest of us were. Not all the French, the militaire there were outside the compound. The two African teachers who I think were from Cameroon and I had houses outside, but within easy walking distance.

[Assistant] Did you have electricity?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know exactly what happened to him. He wasn't permitted to go back. I don't know if they reassigned him or they sent him back? But there had been a gap.

[Assistant] All right. So you went and retrieved whatever it was and you moved back into the same house.

[User] I don't know if it's the same house or not. But French teachers lived in the compound with a fence around it and a generator, and the rest of us were. Not all the French, the militaire there were outside the compound. The two African teachers who I think were from Cameroon and I had houses outside, but within easy walking distance.

[Assistant] Did you have electricity?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Do you have water in the house?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know if it's the same house or not. But French teachers lived in the compound with a fence around it and a generator, and the rest of us were. Not all the French, the militaire there were outside the compound. The two African teachers who I think were from Cameroon and I had houses outside, but within easy walking distance.

[Assistant] Did you have electricity?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Do you have water in the house?

[User] When the guards brought prisoners to fill the water tank, yes. Twice a week, the police would bring prisoners with their rifles and had them haul water from the well. And I had a tank on top of a column to the back of the house and they would pour the water in there. Ladder, sitting them up, and no one was ever shot. But no running water. My refrigerator operated to some extent. It was kerosene powered, or gasoline powered, maybe gasoline. I have been told that sometimes when they start to not cool, the best thing to do is put them in the back of the truck and have someone drive them up and down the dirt roads to bounce them. I hired a houseboy, which was fairly easy to do.

[Assistant] The houseboy went shopping for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Do you have water in the house?

[User] When the guards brought prisoners to fill the water tank, yes. Twice a week, the police would bring prisoners with their rifles and had them haul water from the well. And I had a tank on top of a column to the back of the house and they would pour the water in there. Ladder, sitting them up, and no one was ever shot. But no running water. My refrigerator operated to some extent. It was kerosene powered, or gasoline powered, maybe gasoline. I have been told that sometimes when they start to not cool, the best thing to do is put them in the back of the truck and have someone drive them up and down the dirt roads to bounce them. I hired a houseboy, which was fairly easy to do.

[Assistant] The houseboy went shopping for you?

[User] He went shopping because he'd get better prices that I could in the market. Europeans would have to pay more. He took care of my laundry for me, came in the morning to fix me an egg and bread or whatever and clean the house, did cooking for lunch. And would come back in the evening to light my lanterns for me and any small meal, salad or an egg or whatever. I fixed that.

[Assistant] So you get there, you're set, and then when does school start or had school started already?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He went shopping because he'd get better prices that I could in the market. Europeans would have to pay more. He took care of my laundry for me, came in the morning to fix me an egg and bread or whatever and clean the house, did cooking for lunch. And would come back in the evening to light my lanterns for me and any small meal, salad or an egg or whatever. I fixed that.

[Assistant] So you get there, you're set, and then when does school start or had school started already?

[User] No, no, no. Soon after. I didn't have much time to explore the town. I knew how to get from my house into the market. I have a little moped, which I guess was fairly standard at that point. And you actually get pump gas in town, which meant you actually pumped. You would pump a handle to get the gas up into a glass cylinder. They would check it and make sure it was full. You had a release in lower right into your drain, into your fuel tank and charge you by how many cylinders you pumped up. Yeah, interesting. My houseboy used an iron that was fueled with charcoal. You open the bottom of it and put the charcoal in, which was.

[Assistant] It works.

[User] Yeah, it worked.

[Assistant] Talk a little bit about the school. I know you didn't like the French teachers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it worked.

[Assistant] Talk a little bit about the school. I know you didn't like the French teachers.

[User] No. There were roughly 240 or 250 students. This is the middle school right after primary and before we went, there was only one lycee that operated, I think, at least in the whole country that had the final year. Chad had a population of two or three million at that time, and they graduated 15 high school students a year.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] They took 30 students. It was very competitive. They took 30 students, routinely graduated 15 of them.

[Assistant] Did the students in your school have to pay?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. There were roughly 240 or 250 students. This is the middle school right after primary and before we went, there was only one lycee that operated, I think, at least in the whole country that had the final year. Chad had a population of two or three million at that time, and they graduated 15 high school students a year.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] They took 30 students. It was very competitive. They took 30 students, routinely graduated 15 of them.

[Assistant] Did the students in your school have to pay?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Oh, so it was free. It was free education.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They took 30 students. It was very competitive. They took 30 students, routinely graduated 15 of them.

[Assistant] Did the students in your school have to pay?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Oh, so it was free. It was free education.

[User] It was a free education except a lot of the students were two or three days away from home, and they would leave in end of August and start walking. If they were lucky, they came with a bag of grain, one, maybe two pair of shorts and a shirt or two. And you're talking about 12, 13, 14 year old kids who had to support themselves, find a place to sleep at night and food. To be able to go to school.

[Assistant] So there weren't dorms at school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Oh, so it was free. It was free education.

[User] It was a free education except a lot of the students were two or three days away from home, and they would leave in end of August and start walking. If they were lucky, they came with a bag of grain, one, maybe two pair of shorts and a shirt or two. And you're talking about 12, 13, 14 year old kids who had to support themselves, find a place to sleep at night and food. To be able to go to school.

[Assistant] So there weren't dorms at school?

[User] No.

[Assistant] And paying somebody to stay at their house costs money, so were these sons of rich people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a free education except a lot of the students were two or three days away from home, and they would leave in end of August and start walking. If they were lucky, they came with a bag of grain, one, maybe two pair of shorts and a shirt or two. And you're talking about 12, 13, 14 year old kids who had to support themselves, find a place to sleep at night and food. To be able to go to school.

[Assistant] So there weren't dorms at school?

[User] No.

[Assistant] And paying somebody to stay at their house costs money, so were these sons of rich people?

[User] Like I said most, if they're lucky, came with a bag of grain and that was it. I quite often would go out and scatter garbage around my house so I could pay someone to come in. Several times I had a dog, several times my dog disappeared and mysteriously someone would bring it back, asking for a reward which I always paid. Yeah.

[Assistant] So you really helped the kids.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] And paying somebody to stay at their house costs money, so were these sons of rich people?

[User] Like I said most, if they're lucky, came with a bag of grain and that was it. I quite often would go out and scatter garbage around my house so I could pay someone to come in. Several times I had a dog, several times my dog disappeared and mysteriously someone would bring it back, asking for a reward which I always paid. Yeah.

[Assistant] So you really helped the kids.

[User] Without being obvious. One of our students stole from the pork butcher in town. Stole meat. And the butcher caught him and cut his throat. Which was somewhat disturbing, but even more disturbing was when his family found out about his death after he had been buried and the father comes to town and felt like he was entitled to kill a student to compensate for his loss or the faculty was also and that would apply to us. So until he was persuaded by the police to leave, it was a little, little scary.

[Assistant] And this was, this an anomaly or do you think this is just the way it was? An eye for an eye?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Like I said most, if they're lucky, came with a bag of grain and that was it. I quite often would go out and scatter garbage around my house so I could pay someone to come in. Several times I had a dog, several times my dog disappeared and mysteriously someone would bring it back, asking for a reward which I always paid. Yeah.

[Assistant] So you really helped the kids.

[User] Without being obvious. One of our students stole from the pork butcher in town. Stole meat. And the butcher caught him and cut his throat. Which was somewhat disturbing, but even more disturbing was when his family found out about his death after he had been buried and the father comes to town and felt like he was entitled to kill a student to compensate for his loss or the faculty was also and that would apply to us. So until he was persuaded by the police to leave, it was a little, little scary.

[Assistant] And this was, this an anomaly or do you think this is just the way it was? An eye for an eye?

[User] Yeah, an eye for an eye.

[Assistant] So. You were in the school, you showed up. Classes started. Did you just go in and start teaching your classes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Without being obvious. One of our students stole from the pork butcher in town. Stole meat. And the butcher caught him and cut his throat. Which was somewhat disturbing, but even more disturbing was when his family found out about his death after he had been buried and the father comes to town and felt like he was entitled to kill a student to compensate for his loss or the faculty was also and that would apply to us. So until he was persuaded by the police to leave, it was a little, little scary.

[Assistant] And this was, this an anomaly or do you think this is just the way it was? An eye for an eye?

[User] Yeah, an eye for an eye.

[Assistant] So. You were in the school, you showed up. Classes started. Did you just go in and start teaching your classes?

[User] That was it.

[Assistant] Did you get any support?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, an eye for an eye.

[Assistant] So. You were in the school, you showed up. Classes started. Did you just go in and start teaching your classes?

[User] That was it.

[Assistant] Did you get any support?

[User] No, I, we taught. You know, instead of doing lesson planning American style, where you plan your lessons out for a week. There you had a carnet de text, carnet de note, a notebook or your textbook on each class you taught. You were to sit and write what you had covered that day before you left the room and that stayed in a classroom. The students stayed in the room and the teachers rotated around. So teaching a language class, using color, things, items or whatever. I would have to prepare three or four classrooms with things that I would be using for the one lesson.

[Assistant] Because it stayed in their classroom.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was it.

[Assistant] Did you get any support?

[User] No, I, we taught. You know, instead of doing lesson planning American style, where you plan your lessons out for a week. There you had a carnet de text, carnet de note, a notebook or your textbook on each class you taught. You were to sit and write what you had covered that day before you left the room and that stayed in a classroom. The students stayed in the room and the teachers rotated around. So teaching a language class, using color, things, items or whatever. I would have to prepare three or four classrooms with things that I would be using for the one lesson.

[Assistant] Because it stayed in their classroom.

[User] Yes. And hope that the instructors wouldn't take it down or erase whatever I'd put up. Or, yeah, the black blackboards were an experience. They were very old, very pitied. And every classroom would have a bucket of water each morning, fresh water and a sponge. And you learn to splash water on the board to erase it. And I would go home each day with chalk dust from my knees down that had splashed back onto my pants. Yes. It's just part of the job.

[Assistant] Were the students prepared for middle school? What was the education level?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I, we taught. You know, instead of doing lesson planning American style, where you plan your lessons out for a week. There you had a carnet de text, carnet de note, a notebook or your textbook on each class you taught. You were to sit and write what you had covered that day before you left the room and that stayed in a classroom. The students stayed in the room and the teachers rotated around. So teaching a language class, using color, things, items or whatever. I would have to prepare three or four classrooms with things that I would be using for the one lesson.

[Assistant] Because it stayed in their classroom.

[User] Yes. And hope that the instructors wouldn't take it down or erase whatever I'd put up. Or, yeah, the black blackboards were an experience. They were very old, very pitied. And every classroom would have a bucket of water each morning, fresh water and a sponge. And you learn to splash water on the board to erase it. And I would go home each day with chalk dust from my knees down that had splashed back onto my pants. Yes. It's just part of the job.

[Assistant] Were the students prepared for middle school? What was the education level?

[User] They were, in most cases, very conscientious. Forty-five in a classroom. There were 12 girls in the whole school.

[Assistant] So it was a coed school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. And hope that the instructors wouldn't take it down or erase whatever I'd put up. Or, yeah, the black blackboards were an experience. They were very old, very pitied. And every classroom would have a bucket of water each morning, fresh water and a sponge. And you learn to splash water on the board to erase it. And I would go home each day with chalk dust from my knees down that had splashed back onto my pants. Yes. It's just part of the job.

[Assistant] Were the students prepared for middle school? What was the education level?

[User] They were, in most cases, very conscientious. Forty-five in a classroom. There were 12 girls in the whole school.

[Assistant] So it was a coed school.

[User] It was coed. And the reason that the 12 were there, the missionaries explained to me was that the parents could get a better price for them if they had a middle school education over just the primary school. I remember the first faculty meeting there, and there was a big debate over what part of the fence around the school we were to direct the kids to for urinating.

[Assistant] And that was just the way things were.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were, in most cases, very conscientious. Forty-five in a classroom. There were 12 girls in the whole school.

[Assistant] So it was a coed school.

[User] It was coed. And the reason that the 12 were there, the missionaries explained to me was that the parents could get a better price for them if they had a middle school education over just the primary school. I remember the first faculty meeting there, and there was a big debate over what part of the fence around the school we were to direct the kids to for urinating.

[Assistant] And that was just the way things were.

[User] That was the way things were, yeah. You know, of course, no meals, no sanitation.

[Assistant] So when did the kids eat, just before they left wherever they were living and came in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was coed. And the reason that the 12 were there, the missionaries explained to me was that the parents could get a better price for them if they had a middle school education over just the primary school. I remember the first faculty meeting there, and there was a big debate over what part of the fence around the school we were to direct the kids to for urinating.

[Assistant] And that was just the way things were.

[User] That was the way things were, yeah. You know, of course, no meals, no sanitation.

[Assistant] So when did the kids eat, just before they left wherever they were living and came in?

[User] Yeah, we would stop school classes around noon because of the heat and the older students came back in the evening. The younger students didn't. There'd be an evening session four to six. I never taught that. School was six days a week. Teachers had a floating day off. You had Sunday plus one other day, so your schedule from day to day was never the same.

[Assistant] How did you get along with the other, the other teachers, I mean, who did you interact with?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was the way things were, yeah. You know, of course, no meals, no sanitation.

[Assistant] So when did the kids eat, just before they left wherever they were living and came in?

[User] Yeah, we would stop school classes around noon because of the heat and the older students came back in the evening. The younger students didn't. There'd be an evening session four to six. I never taught that. School was six days a week. Teachers had a floating day off. You had Sunday plus one other day, so your schedule from day to day was never the same.

[Assistant] How did you get along with the other, the other teachers, I mean, who did you interact with?

[User] The African teachers primarily. I was polite with the French, but I didn't go there to spend time with French people.

[Assistant] And you spoke French with the Africans?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we would stop school classes around noon because of the heat and the older students came back in the evening. The younger students didn't. There'd be an evening session four to six. I never taught that. School was six days a week. Teachers had a floating day off. You had Sunday plus one other day, so your schedule from day to day was never the same.

[Assistant] How did you get along with the other, the other teachers, I mean, who did you interact with?

[User] The African teachers primarily. I was polite with the French, but I didn't go there to spend time with French people.

[Assistant] And you spoke French with the Africans?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And did you think they were well prepared teachers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The African teachers primarily. I was polite with the French, but I didn't go there to spend time with French people.

[Assistant] And you spoke French with the Africans?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And did you think they were well prepared teachers?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] They had all, where had they gone to training?