[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Edwards. No, we did that at Edwards because why? Well, because Edwards is flat and it's large and so it has a lot of room for error and a lot of accommodation. If you want to land and the -- I don't know, three-mile, 15,000-foot runway is not enough, that's okay, you just keep on going. So it has a lot of latitude and flexibility there so it's a good place to do that sort of thing. That's why Edwards is located there as a test site. So plus the weather is great, as far as inclement weather and rain and that sort of thing. So no, Edwards was where we did all that.

[Assistant] You were there for all of the testing?

[User] No, as a matter of fact I was not. I was off on one of these other things. So I did not go to the actual [Approach] and Landing Tests. I didn't go to any of them. I was aware of what was happening and getting the data from them, but I didn't actually go witness any of them. Kind of would have liked to, but I had other [assignments]. I couldn't do it.

[Assistant] You had on about three different hats at that point. So can imagine you were a little busy. What was it like going back to the environment of an airplane company then?

[User] Oh I loved it. I’m glad you mentioned it, yes, because like I said before I started out kind of on the flight line in General Dynamics and Convair with the B-58 and the TFX/F-111 kind of thing, and oh I just love being around airplanes. Yes, so that brought back a lot of memories. Now I liked working with airplane people if you like. So that was fun. That was fun.

[Assistant] I can imagine it was.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, as a matter of fact I was not. I was off on one of these other things. So I did not go to the actual [Approach] and Landing Tests. I didn't go to any of them. I was aware of what was happening and getting the data from them, but I didn't actually go witness any of them. Kind of would have liked to, but I had other [assignments]. I couldn't do it.

[Assistant] You had on about three different hats at that point. So can imagine you were a little busy. What was it like going back to the environment of an airplane company then?

[User] Oh I loved it. I’m glad you mentioned it, yes, because like I said before I started out kind of on the flight line in General Dynamics and Convair with the B-58 and the TFX/F-111 kind of thing, and oh I just love being around airplanes. Yes, so that brought back a lot of memories. Now I liked working with airplane people if you like. So that was fun. That was fun.

[Assistant] I can imagine it was.

[User] Yes, and of course I knew a lot about what it took to build an airplane and how airplanes perform and function and so forth. So that was very helpful in addition to fun and enjoyable.

[Assistant] You were still working all the payload issues at this point.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh I loved it. I’m glad you mentioned it, yes, because like I said before I started out kind of on the flight line in General Dynamics and Convair with the B-58 and the TFX/F-111 kind of thing, and oh I just love being around airplanes. Yes, so that brought back a lot of memories. Now I liked working with airplane people if you like. So that was fun. That was fun.

[Assistant] I can imagine it was.

[User] Yes, and of course I knew a lot about what it took to build an airplane and how airplanes perform and function and so forth. So that was very helpful in addition to fun and enjoyable.

[Assistant] You were still working all the payload issues at this point.

[User] Right. That's why I couldn't get to the ALT tests at Edwards.

[Assistant] The Space Shuttle was supposed to launch I think originally in '78, but the dates kept getting pushed [back].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, and of course I knew a lot about what it took to build an airplane and how airplanes perform and function and so forth. So that was very helpful in addition to fun and enjoyable.

[Assistant] You were still working all the payload issues at this point.

[User] Right. That's why I couldn't get to the ALT tests at Edwards.

[Assistant] The Space Shuttle was supposed to launch I think originally in '78, but the dates kept getting pushed [back].

[User] Yes, and I don't remember when we actually first launched. Was it '81?

[Assistant] Eighty-one, yes. How did those dates impact the work that you were doing at that point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. That's why I couldn't get to the ALT tests at Edwards.

[Assistant] The Space Shuttle was supposed to launch I think originally in '78, but the dates kept getting pushed [back].

[User] Yes, and I don't remember when we actually first launched. Was it '81?

[Assistant] Eighty-one, yes. How did those dates impact the work that you were doing at that point?

[User] It didn't really impact. We were kind of going down a parallel path, and we were like I said before in working with accommodations in payload integration, we fed that back in as quickly as we could so that they would still be meaningful as design drivers for the Orbiter. But the drifting of the Orbiter launch date probably helped us a little bit I suppose. Gave a little bit more time.

[Assistant] One of the things we didn't talk about, and I was wondering if you were involved in this at all, were you involved in the pricing of payloads, what it cost to actually fly, and working with that side of the house?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, yes, I guess, Jennifer, the original thought was to be launching Shuttles, I don't know if it was weekly, but certainly monthly. The payload schedule I guess would be rather heavy. But it wasn't long before it was apparent that we weren't going to be launching the Shuttle that frequently. So it never really came to be a problem with the payload accommodation process. So it really was not a problem.

[Assistant] Did you have any responsibilities for the first Space Shuttle mission, for STS-1?

[User] No, not directly, no.

[Assistant] Where were you when STS-1 finally lifted off the pad?

[User] Gosh, I don't remember. (Laughter) I really don't. I don't remember where I was.

[Assistant] Do you remember where you were when it landed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, not directly, no.

[Assistant] Where were you when STS-1 finally lifted off the pad?

[User] Gosh, I don't remember. (Laughter) I really don't. I don't remember where I was.

[Assistant] Do you remember where you were when it landed?

[User] No, don't remember that either. That's part of going with the territory I guess. I don't remember. I don't remember. And the only reason I remember the Apollo 11 Saturn V launch is because like I said we raced down there in our private hired airplane, rented airplane, to be sure we could watch it, because we couldn't get a commercial flight. So I remember that one. But no, I don't remember the first Shuttle launch.

[Assistant] What was the first STS mission that you helped support in terms of payload? Do you recall?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Gosh, I don't remember. (Laughter) I really don't. I don't remember where I was.

[Assistant] Do you remember where you were when it landed?

[User] No, don't remember that either. That's part of going with the territory I guess. I don't remember. I don't remember. And the only reason I remember the Apollo 11 Saturn V launch is because like I said we raced down there in our private hired airplane, rented airplane, to be sure we could watch it, because we couldn't get a commercial flight. So I remember that one. But no, I don't remember the first Shuttle launch.

[Assistant] What was the first STS mission that you helped support in terms of payload? Do you recall?

[User] It was probably that first flight. I'm having trouble remembering, but I think we probably had a dummy payload in that first flight. By dummy payload, probably just a big old something that would span the bay and be attached to the supports on the sidewalls and had some mass and a proper center of gravity location, and it was just structure and had no avionics, maybe some measurements, accelerometers and that sort of thing, but it wasn't a functioning something, it was just a dud sitting in there, and I think we had that on that first flight, and if we did, why, of course I was involved in that, but I don't remember. But yes that would have gone through our process.

[Assistant] I'm wondering if you could walk us through the process of scheduling a payload and sort of mixing and matching payloads for missions and how that all worked.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, the PIMs were located in the Program Office. The Engineering would support the process and the panels as well as Ops, Life Sciences and Crew. In some cases there would be different technical disciplines in Engineering that would support in some of those cases -- for example I was located at the time in the Structures and Mechanics Division. So any disciplines that resided within that division then I was responsible for. Later on I moved, relocated to the Engineering Directorate office. Then I was responsible for the same thing but for all of the [directorate’s] technical disciplines, avionics and propulsion and so on and so forth. So that's kind of the way it was set up.

[Assistant] Did you ever have the opportunity to work in mission control when some of your payloads were up and being deployed?

[User] The way that worked was that in a mission if there's what we call an anomaly, then a team is scrambled to go work the anomaly in a room adjacent to the control room. Yes, I've supported many of those. (Laughter) It's kind of a tiger team where you go over during the mission, day or night, whenever it is, doesn't matter, and in my case usually I would grab the real smart people from the Engineering Directorate, whether it was only in our Structures Division or later on throughout the directorate, to form the components of the tiger team for investigating the specific anomaly that had occurred. Those anomaly investigations usually were conducted by somebody in the Program Office or somebody in Mission Ops. I don't recall now who did that, but somebody did that. Then Engineering was one of the supporters of that.

[Assistant] Any particular missions that stand out in terms of anomalies that you recall? Or just too many to remember?

[User] Too many. Well, the Superzip incident was one for example. But there were others and I just don't remember them. I don't recall.

[Assistant] Once the Space Shuttle was up and running and it was declared operational, did you make any sort of changes to the process that you had devised in the '70s?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She was hired here as a contractor in the 80’s. She had Robert’s job, she was a [Glenn Research Center] historian. She [subsequently] went to [The] Aerospace Corporation. I haven’t talked to her in a number of years. Bonnie is a very nice lady, and she shared an office with the Report Control [Office]. I get over to Report Control, and they introduced me to Bonnie. I talked with Bonnie, and she was telling me they’re trying to accumulate [historical NACA/NASA] papers. I told her the story about Abe. I think Abe had passed away at the time. They contacted Abe’s family and they were able to get all the archived pictures, historical pictures [and documents]. It went back for a long time. Just a little incident that happened at the dinner, and I told her the story. I said, “See if you can get it, that would be a lot of historical, archival material.”

[Assistant] That’s great. Such a richness in that legacy that tends to get lost when people throw boxes away.

[User] Yes, exactly right. They don’t have to worry about me, but I’ve got to give this all to Robert. He’s going to have to take care of it.

[Assistant] Yes, I think they’re ready to start processing.

[User] I’ve run out of stories, I think.

[Assistant] I bet you haven’t, but we probably have run out of time, so we’ll probably need to close up now. We certainly thank you for spending as much time with us as you did.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] And you can talk about where you were at then.

[User] Well, uh, a year before I left, I was still living at home with my widowed mother.

[Assistant] Home being?

[User] Home being Philadelphia, and had been thinking about the Peace Corps quite a bit. I was out in the working world and um.

[Assistant] Where have you done a degree?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had done a degree at Saint Joseph's College in Philadelphia.

[Assistant] Majoring?

[User] In education. I had taught initially for a year, but I had the travel bug, so decided that I didn't want to stay in the classroom, and I joined the airlines.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] So I was doing quite a bit of traveling and seeing the world and just thought that I would like to stop off in some place and really spend some time there rather than just in and out so.

[Assistant] Let's go back to when you were in college.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In education. I had taught initially for a year, but I had the travel bug, so decided that I didn't want to stay in the classroom, and I joined the airlines.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] So I was doing quite a bit of traveling and seeing the world and just thought that I would like to stop off in some place and really spend some time there rather than just in and out so.

[Assistant] Let's go back to when you were in college.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did you do any kind of volunteer work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I was doing quite a bit of traveling and seeing the world and just thought that I would like to stop off in some place and really spend some time there rather than just in and out so.

[Assistant] Let's go back to when you were in college.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did you do any kind of volunteer work?

[User] Oh, definitely, yeah. Yeah. Well, starting in high school and I will say the good nuns taught us many fine things back then, that was part of our curriculum to have to do, not have to do. Well, you did have to do it, but you did it and you liked it. But every year there was some kind of, some kind of volunteer work, even wheeling patients around in the Philadelphia hospitals and things like that. So, so yeah, the seeds of volunteerism, I guess we're born at a very young age.

[Assistant] Through high school, did you do any travel?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did you do any kind of volunteer work?

[User] Oh, definitely, yeah. Yeah. Well, starting in high school and I will say the good nuns taught us many fine things back then, that was part of our curriculum to have to do, not have to do. Well, you did have to do it, but you did it and you liked it. But every year there was some kind of, some kind of volunteer work, even wheeling patients around in the Philadelphia hospitals and things like that. So, so yeah, the seeds of volunteerism, I guess we're born at a very young age.

[Assistant] Through high school, did you do any travel?

[User] No, but I dreamt of traveling, so that was my, uh, that was my goal. Most of my classmates, I guess, were dreaming of getting married and having children and things like that. But I was different. I wanted to see the world first. So that was my primary goal and motivation. And actually joining the airlines was one way to achieve that, which I did.

[Assistant] When you went to college, though, at that point, your initial intention was to become a teacher?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, definitely, yeah. Yeah. Well, starting in high school and I will say the good nuns taught us many fine things back then, that was part of our curriculum to have to do, not have to do. Well, you did have to do it, but you did it and you liked it. But every year there was some kind of, some kind of volunteer work, even wheeling patients around in the Philadelphia hospitals and things like that. So, so yeah, the seeds of volunteerism, I guess we're born at a very young age.

[Assistant] Through high school, did you do any travel?

[User] No, but I dreamt of traveling, so that was my, uh, that was my goal. Most of my classmates, I guess, were dreaming of getting married and having children and things like that. But I was different. I wanted to see the world first. So that was my primary goal and motivation. And actually joining the airlines was one way to achieve that, which I did.

[Assistant] When you went to college, though, at that point, your initial intention was to become a teacher?

[User] That's right. Because my mother was a teacher. My aunt was a teacher. My brother was a teacher. The whole family were teachers. But I had this wanderlust. I was.

[Assistant] Through college, do you particularly recall the presidency of Kennedy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, but I dreamt of traveling, so that was my, uh, that was my goal. Most of my classmates, I guess, were dreaming of getting married and having children and things like that. But I was different. I wanted to see the world first. So that was my primary goal and motivation. And actually joining the airlines was one way to achieve that, which I did.

[Assistant] When you went to college, though, at that point, your initial intention was to become a teacher?

[User] That's right. Because my mother was a teacher. My aunt was a teacher. My brother was a teacher. The whole family were teachers. But I had this wanderlust. I was.

[Assistant] Through college, do you particularly recall the presidency of Kennedy?

[User] Um. Actually, I was. Yeah, I do. Of course I do. Of course I do. I'm just thinking. Yeah, I loved them. I just loved them. And, you know, it was the first time I became interested in politics, interested in the country, interested in how we were relating with the world. And uh yeah.

[Assistant] You grew up in a Catholic family.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's right. Because my mother was a teacher. My aunt was a teacher. My brother was a teacher. The whole family were teachers. But I had this wanderlust. I was.

[Assistant] Through college, do you particularly recall the presidency of Kennedy?

[User] Um. Actually, I was. Yeah, I do. Of course I do. Of course I do. I'm just thinking. Yeah, I loved them. I just loved them. And, you know, it was the first time I became interested in politics, interested in the country, interested in how we were relating with the world. And uh yeah.

[Assistant] You grew up in a Catholic family.

[User] Oh, definitely.

[Assistant] And of course he was the first Catholic president.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. Actually, I was. Yeah, I do. Of course I do. Of course I do. I'm just thinking. Yeah, I loved them. I just loved them. And, you know, it was the first time I became interested in politics, interested in the country, interested in how we were relating with the world. And uh yeah.

[Assistant] You grew up in a Catholic family.

[User] Oh, definitely.

[Assistant] And of course he was the first Catholic president.

[User] That's right, yeah. And I might add, this is a little aside, I didn't vote for him because it was my first election and there was a part of me that was saying, I didn't want anyone ever to accuse me of voting for him because he was Catholic. But it shows how politically naive I was at the time. You know, he actually, I mean, people can't believe that I didn't vote for him for that reason. I mean, it doesn't speak very highly of my intelligence at the time.

[Assistant] Do you recall hearing of the Peace Corps in the early days when it first, '61 was when it started?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, definitely.

[Assistant] And of course he was the first Catholic president.

[User] That's right, yeah. And I might add, this is a little aside, I didn't vote for him because it was my first election and there was a part of me that was saying, I didn't want anyone ever to accuse me of voting for him because he was Catholic. But it shows how politically naive I was at the time. You know, he actually, I mean, people can't believe that I didn't vote for him for that reason. I mean, it doesn't speak very highly of my intelligence at the time.

[Assistant] Do you recall hearing of the Peace Corps in the early days when it first, '61 was when it started?

[User] Yeah. I mean, he, uh. Yeah.

[Assistant] And your reaction?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's right, yeah. And I might add, this is a little aside, I didn't vote for him because it was my first election and there was a part of me that was saying, I didn't want anyone ever to accuse me of voting for him because he was Catholic. But it shows how politically naive I was at the time. You know, he actually, I mean, people can't believe that I didn't vote for him for that reason. I mean, it doesn't speak very highly of my intelligence at the time.

[Assistant] Do you recall hearing of the Peace Corps in the early days when it first, '61 was when it started?

[User] Yeah. I mean, he, uh. Yeah.

[Assistant] And your reaction?

[User] My reaction was, isn't that great? I loved it. I kept following it.

[Assistant] You were, in '61 you were?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. I mean, he, uh. Yeah.

[Assistant] And your reaction?

[User] My reaction was, isn't that great? I loved it. I kept following it.

[Assistant] You were, in '61 you were?

[User] I was still in school. I was.

[Assistant] High school or college?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My reaction was, isn't that great? I loved it. I kept following it.

[Assistant] You were, in '61 you were?

[User] I was still in school. I was.

[Assistant] High school or college?

[User] No, college. Yeah. So that, uh, yeah. And then shortly after that, I got out and then I worked for the airlines.

[Assistant] For how many years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, college. Yeah. So that, uh, yeah. And then shortly after that, I got out and then I worked for the airlines.

[Assistant] For how many years?

[User] Wow. Gosh, it's been so long ago. I forget. All told, I think I worked for the airlines for about 11 years, but I worked for them when I came back from Peace Corps. United Airlines, I worked for. And they were one of the few places, I guess, that they were, first of all, they were very good to their employees. And they, what really triggered me was that you could take a leave of absence to go in the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I guess being young and single and on my own, so to speak, you know, having job security was a part of my agenda. So that was like the clincher that said, OK, I can afford to do this. I will have a job when I come back and I'll be fine so.

[Assistant] Where'd you travel as a stewardess, were you national or international?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I guess being young and single and on my own, so to speak, you know, having job security was a part of my agenda. So that was like the clincher that said, OK, I can afford to do this. I will have a job when I come back and I'll be fine so.

[Assistant] Where'd you travel as a stewardess, were you national or international?

[User] No, I wasn't a stewardess. My hips were too big. My hips were too big when I, that's what they told me back then. And I look at them today, I, but no, I worked on the ticket counter.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] I worked at Kennedy Airport in New York and then followed up, came back to Philadelphia and worked in the center city ticket offices.

[Assistant] But that enabled you to do a lot of traveling?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I worked at Kennedy Airport in New York and then followed up, came back to Philadelphia and worked in the center city ticket offices.

[Assistant] But that enabled you to do a lot of traveling?

[User] Oh, I traveled all over. Oh, I was on an airplane every chance I got.

[Assistant] Overseas?

[User] Overseas, yeah.

[Assistant] Where did you go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, I traveled all over. Oh, I was on an airplane every chance I got.

[Assistant] Overseas?

[User] Overseas, yeah.

[Assistant] Where did you go?

[User] Oh, Italy. France. Germany. Scandinavia. Vienna. Um. England. Ireland.

[Assistant] In college, did you study language?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, Italy. France. Germany. Scandinavia. Vienna. Um. England. Ireland.

[Assistant] In college, did you study language?

[User] I was always in love with languages. I, uh, well, in high school, a good Catholic high school, I had four years of Latin, three years of French. In college I had two years of German. And loved languages. But I always felt they didn't teach it adequately. They taught it visually, not orally.

[Assistant] Yes. Yes.

[User] And so when I actually did go in the Peace Corps and was learning Spanish for the first time at age 29, I found it very difficult to tackle a new language that I had never had any background with. The Latin helped out a lot but.

[Assistant] So what was the process by which you decided that, OK, I think I'll join the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was always in love with languages. I, uh, well, in high school, a good Catholic high school, I had four years of Latin, three years of French. In college I had two years of German. And loved languages. But I always felt they didn't teach it adequately. They taught it visually, not orally.

[Assistant] Yes. Yes.

[User] And so when I actually did go in the Peace Corps and was learning Spanish for the first time at age 29, I found it very difficult to tackle a new language that I had never had any background with. The Latin helped out a lot but.

[Assistant] So what was the process by which you decided that, OK, I think I'll join the Peace Corps?

[User] I just said this is the only way I'm going to be able to go and live abroad and be not and sort of taken care of in a way. But it was more than that. It was, it was an adventure. It was a real adventure. And it also was something that I believed in. I really heard the message, I guess, that I really thought that we ought to do, get to know the rest of the world a little bit.

[Assistant] Do you particularly recall the application process?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so when I actually did go in the Peace Corps and was learning Spanish for the first time at age 29, I found it very difficult to tackle a new language that I had never had any background with. The Latin helped out a lot but.

[Assistant] So what was the process by which you decided that, OK, I think I'll join the Peace Corps?

[User] I just said this is the only way I'm going to be able to go and live abroad and be not and sort of taken care of in a way. But it was more than that. It was, it was an adventure. It was a real adventure. And it also was something that I believed in. I really heard the message, I guess, that I really thought that we ought to do, get to know the rest of the world a little bit.

[Assistant] Do you particularly recall the application process?

[User] Yeah. Yeah, well, I went down to I think the Customs House here in Philadelphia. Took a test and filled out tons and tons of questionnaires, I guess. And other than that, I guess the next thing was, uh, I got a letter saying, can you join us at X, Y, Z?

[Assistant] When you fill in the application, I think there's a place where you indicate where you would like to go. Do you remember what you had said?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I just said this is the only way I'm going to be able to go and live abroad and be not and sort of taken care of in a way. But it was more than that. It was, it was an adventure. It was a real adventure. And it also was something that I believed in. I really heard the message, I guess, that I really thought that we ought to do, get to know the rest of the world a little bit.

[Assistant] Do you particularly recall the application process?

[User] Yeah. Yeah, well, I went down to I think the Customs House here in Philadelphia. Took a test and filled out tons and tons of questionnaires, I guess. And other than that, I guess the next thing was, uh, I got a letter saying, can you join us at X, Y, Z?

[Assistant] When you fill in the application, I think there's a place where you indicate where you would like to go. Do you remember what you had said?

[User] Well, initially I said I'd go anywhere. I really was open and, um, hadn't really given much thought. I mean, there wasn't any part of the world that I wouldn't have wanted to see. And my first invitation to join them, which came very quickly, was to Ivory Coast. And I figured that was because I had the French language skills. But I had started to think after I had done that, that maybe, maybe I ought to think of a language that I could use when I came back. And so I switched. When I had to turn down the Ivory Coast, I then narrowed my countries to Spanish speaking. And then the second invitation came to join this Guatemala group.

[Assistant] OK. And the invitation was to Guatemala and to rural community development.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah, well, I went down to I think the Customs House here in Philadelphia. Took a test and filled out tons and tons of questionnaires, I guess. And other than that, I guess the next thing was, uh, I got a letter saying, can you join us at X, Y, Z?

[Assistant] When you fill in the application, I think there's a place where you indicate where you would like to go. Do you remember what you had said?

[User] Well, initially I said I'd go anywhere. I really was open and, um, hadn't really given much thought. I mean, there wasn't any part of the world that I wouldn't have wanted to see. And my first invitation to join them, which came very quickly, was to Ivory Coast. And I figured that was because I had the French language skills. But I had started to think after I had done that, that maybe, maybe I ought to think of a language that I could use when I came back. And so I switched. When I had to turn down the Ivory Coast, I then narrowed my countries to Spanish speaking. And then the second invitation came to join this Guatemala group.

[Assistant] OK. And the invitation was to Guatemala and to rural community development.

[User] Yeah. Mm hmm.

[Assistant] OK. About which you knew?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, initially I said I'd go anywhere. I really was open and, um, hadn't really given much thought. I mean, there wasn't any part of the world that I wouldn't have wanted to see. And my first invitation to join them, which came very quickly, was to Ivory Coast. And I figured that was because I had the French language skills. But I had started to think after I had done that, that maybe, maybe I ought to think of a language that I could use when I came back. And so I switched. When I had to turn down the Ivory Coast, I then narrowed my countries to Spanish speaking. And then the second invitation came to join this Guatemala group.

[Assistant] OK. And the invitation was to Guatemala and to rural community development.

[User] Yeah. Mm hmm.

[Assistant] OK. About which you knew?

[User] I knew zilch. Having been born and raised in the city, I mean, rural, alone, the word was like foreign language to me. And that actually became quite a, quite a joke in a way. I think most of the volunteers were from cities or suburbs near cities, and most of us weren't brought up on a farm or knew anything about agriculture. So it was, it was rather comical to see us city slickers.

[Assistant] How did your family deal with your decision to go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Mm hmm.

[Assistant] OK. About which you knew?

[User] I knew zilch. Having been born and raised in the city, I mean, rural, alone, the word was like foreign language to me. And that actually became quite a, quite a joke in a way. I think most of the volunteers were from cities or suburbs near cities, and most of us weren't brought up on a farm or knew anything about agriculture. So it was, it was rather comical to see us city slickers.

[Assistant] How did your family deal with your decision to go?

[User] Well. They were, they were a little surprised, but not really, because I was always off on a plane going somewhere. My mother, though, who was getting up there, and this has to do with my Catholic background. The first question she said is, how are you going to get to Mass on Sunday? And I said, I don't know. And I really didn't. And she acquiesced. It was, you know, it was something that I just was ready to do.

[Assistant] How about your fellow workers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I knew zilch. Having been born and raised in the city, I mean, rural, alone, the word was like foreign language to me. And that actually became quite a, quite a joke in a way. I think most of the volunteers were from cities or suburbs near cities, and most of us weren't brought up on a farm or knew anything about agriculture. So it was, it was rather comical to see us city slickers.

[Assistant] How did your family deal with your decision to go?

[User] Well. They were, they were a little surprised, but not really, because I was always off on a plane going somewhere. My mother, though, who was getting up there, and this has to do with my Catholic background. The first question she said is, how are you going to get to Mass on Sunday? And I said, I don't know. And I really didn't. And she acquiesced. It was, you know, it was something that I just was ready to do.

[Assistant] How about your fellow workers?

[User] They were just so excited for me. They just thought it was terrific. In fact, another woman in the airline business in the city of Philadelphia, I forget, I think she worked for Sabena Airlines, which was the Belgium Airlines. She had already gone, and I wasn't that friendly with her. But it was not a, out of the ordinary for people to be doing this. So, oh, they threw me a great big party. I had a wonderful going away party. And one of the, one of my colleague's husbands who was a commercial artist, did a fantastic pencil drawing of me, which I still have to this day that I love, you know, showing me in the jungle, hanging up my laundry on a clothesline in the trees. And I treasure that. It was wonderful.

[Assistant] Had you known anyone who was in the Peace Corps up through the years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well. They were, they were a little surprised, but not really, because I was always off on a plane going somewhere. My mother, though, who was getting up there, and this has to do with my Catholic background. The first question she said is, how are you going to get to Mass on Sunday? And I said, I don't know. And I really didn't. And she acquiesced. It was, you know, it was something that I just was ready to do.

[Assistant] How about your fellow workers?

[User] They were just so excited for me. They just thought it was terrific. In fact, another woman in the airline business in the city of Philadelphia, I forget, I think she worked for Sabena Airlines, which was the Belgium Airlines. She had already gone, and I wasn't that friendly with her. But it was not a, out of the ordinary for people to be doing this. So, oh, they threw me a great big party. I had a wonderful going away party. And one of the, one of my colleague's husbands who was a commercial artist, did a fantastic pencil drawing of me, which I still have to this day that I love, you know, showing me in the jungle, hanging up my laundry on a clothesline in the trees. And I treasure that. It was wonderful.

[Assistant] Had you known anyone who was in the Peace Corps up through the years?

[User] No, never knew anyone who had actually been there. No.

[Assistant] And did you know anything about Guatemala?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were just so excited for me. They just thought it was terrific. In fact, another woman in the airline business in the city of Philadelphia, I forget, I think she worked for Sabena Airlines, which was the Belgium Airlines. She had already gone, and I wasn't that friendly with her. But it was not a, out of the ordinary for people to be doing this. So, oh, they threw me a great big party. I had a wonderful going away party. And one of the, one of my colleague's husbands who was a commercial artist, did a fantastic pencil drawing of me, which I still have to this day that I love, you know, showing me in the jungle, hanging up my laundry on a clothesline in the trees. And I treasure that. It was wonderful.

[Assistant] Had you known anyone who was in the Peace Corps up through the years?

[User] No, never knew anyone who had actually been there. No.

[Assistant] And did you know anything about Guatemala?

[User] No, except that I always had loved geography as a student, so I knew where it was. I knew my, I knew my globe well. I knew the countries. And I started reading up more in depth about it. And it really wasn't that far away as the crow flies. So it wasn't like going to Africa or places like that. I did know that we couldn't come home for the two years, but I thought if anything had happened at home, you know, I was close.

[Assistant] Yeah. What, uh, where did you go for training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, never knew anyone who had actually been there. No.

[Assistant] And did you know anything about Guatemala?

[User] No, except that I always had loved geography as a student, so I knew where it was. I knew my, I knew my globe well. I knew the countries. And I started reading up more in depth about it. And it really wasn't that far away as the crow flies. So it wasn't like going to Africa or places like that. I did know that we couldn't come home for the two years, but I thought if anything had happened at home, you know, I was close.

[Assistant] Yeah. What, uh, where did you go for training?

[User] We went to University of New Mexico in Las Cruces.

[Assistant] So you flew from Philly?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, except that I always had loved geography as a student, so I knew where it was. I knew my, I knew my globe well. I knew the countries. And I started reading up more in depth about it. And it really wasn't that far away as the crow flies. So it wasn't like going to Africa or places like that. I did know that we couldn't come home for the two years, but I thought if anything had happened at home, you know, I was close.

[Assistant] Yeah. What, uh, where did you go for training?

[User] We went to University of New Mexico in Las Cruces.

[Assistant] So you flew from Philly?

[User] From Philadelphia there. Had to meet a bus at the airport, which was identified. Um. And I remember sitting on that bus like waiting for other people to get on. It wasn't just for us. I think there were other public passengers using this bus, but I could just spot. I knew right away who the other volunteers were. And in fact, one woman got on, a girl then. She came and sat next to me. She ended up being my roommate and she's still one of my closest friends. So from that moment on, we were all headed in the same direction. I remember being. For all my traveling, I had not been to the Southwest. So seeing the desert and the brownness, that's what really sort of got to me and depressed me really. The brownness was not to my liking.

[Assistant] Do you remember what months it was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] From Philadelphia there. Had to meet a bus at the airport, which was identified. Um. And I remember sitting on that bus like waiting for other people to get on. It wasn't just for us. I think there were other public passengers using this bus, but I could just spot. I knew right away who the other volunteers were. And in fact, one woman got on, a girl then. She came and sat next to me. She ended up being my roommate and she's still one of my closest friends. So from that moment on, we were all headed in the same direction. I remember being. For all my traveling, I had not been to the Southwest. So seeing the desert and the brownness, that's what really sort of got to me and depressed me really. The brownness was not to my liking.

[Assistant] Do you remember what months it was?

[User] Sure, February. February of, uh, February of '67. And I guess, I guess the plane must have gone to El Paso.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then got the bus up to the university.

[Assistant] In Las Cruces?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure, February. February of, uh, February of '67. And I guess, I guess the plane must have gone to El Paso.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then got the bus up to the university.

[Assistant] In Las Cruces?

[User] In Las Cruces, yeah. And Las, I mean, the university itself looked like desert. And we were living in barrack-like dorms. The guys were on the first floor and the women were on the second floor, but we had quite a few married couples.

[Assistant] You were on the campus?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then got the bus up to the university.

[Assistant] In Las Cruces?

[User] In Las Cruces, yeah. And Las, I mean, the university itself looked like desert. And we were living in barrack-like dorms. The guys were on the first floor and the women were on the second floor, but we had quite a few married couples.

[Assistant] You were on the campus?

[User] We were right on the campus. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Assistant] Do you remember first gathering as a group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Las Cruces, yeah. And Las, I mean, the university itself looked like desert. And we were living in barrack-like dorms. The guys were on the first floor and the women were on the second floor, but we had quite a few married couples.

[Assistant] You were on the campus?

[User] We were right on the campus. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Assistant] Do you remember first gathering as a group?

[User] Uh, yeah.

[Assistant] You're, I mean, now you're 29.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were right on the campus. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Assistant] Do you remember first gathering as a group?

[User] Uh, yeah.

[Assistant] You're, I mean, now you're 29.

[User] I'm 29, yeah.

[Assistant] Your impressions of the group, I mean.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, yeah.

[Assistant] You're, I mean, now you're 29.

[User] I'm 29, yeah.

[Assistant] Your impressions of the group, I mean.

[User] Well, I guess my first impression was, what have I gotten myself into? I just thought that I may have made the biggest mistake of my life. I just, it was just so many different people, I guess, from what I had been used to and brought up with. And it wasn't that I was frightened. It was just that, um, well, this is really going to be different. And yet in hindsight, it was wonderful because in quick, quick time you become truly bonded. And they were the most wonderful people in the world. Yeah.

[Assistant] Was there a distinct group just for Guatemala to train together?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm 29, yeah.

[Assistant] Your impressions of the group, I mean.

[User] Well, I guess my first impression was, what have I gotten myself into? I just thought that I may have made the biggest mistake of my life. I just, it was just so many different people, I guess, from what I had been used to and brought up with. And it wasn't that I was frightened. It was just that, um, well, this is really going to be different. And yet in hindsight, it was wonderful because in quick, quick time you become truly bonded. And they were the most wonderful people in the world. Yeah.

[Assistant] Was there a distinct group just for Guatemala to train together?

[User] Oh, yeah. We were all training for the same.

[Assistant] So it wasn't a mix of people going to Central America?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I guess my first impression was, what have I gotten myself into? I just thought that I may have made the biggest mistake of my life. I just, it was just so many different people, I guess, from what I had been used to and brought up with. And it wasn't that I was frightened. It was just that, um, well, this is really going to be different. And yet in hindsight, it was wonderful because in quick, quick time you become truly bonded. And they were the most wonderful people in the world. Yeah.

[Assistant] Was there a distinct group just for Guatemala to train together?

[User] Oh, yeah. We were all training for the same.

[Assistant] So it wasn't a mix of people going to Central America?

[User] No, no, it was all for this specific project, which was, well.

[Assistant] Yeah, go ahead.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah. We were all training for the same.

[Assistant] So it wasn't a mix of people going to Central America?

[User] No, no, it was all for this specific project, which was, well.

[Assistant] Yeah, go ahead.

[User] Well, within the training there was, it was called rural community development. And most of us did do that. But there were some isolated assignments, like some of the people that had artistic background were sent up into the highlands and worked with the Indians in the villages to set up co-ops. So there was somewhat of a mixed assignment, but the people that got those assignments were either trained as artists and also had some Spanish skills so that they were more proficient in language, that they could pick up the Indian dialects because the object was to have a solid survival rate.

[Assistant] But they were part of your training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, it was all for this specific project, which was, well.

[Assistant] Yeah, go ahead.

[User] Well, within the training there was, it was called rural community development. And most of us did do that. But there were some isolated assignments, like some of the people that had artistic background were sent up into the highlands and worked with the Indians in the villages to set up co-ops. So there was somewhat of a mixed assignment, but the people that got those assignments were either trained as artists and also had some Spanish skills so that they were more proficient in language, that they could pick up the Indian dialects because the object was to have a solid survival rate.

[Assistant] But they were part of your training?

[User] They were still part of our same training group, because even in the towns it was, it was somewhat of a rural atmosphere.

[Assistant] So what was, what were the components of training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, within the training there was, it was called rural community development. And most of us did do that. But there were some isolated assignments, like some of the people that had artistic background were sent up into the highlands and worked with the Indians in the villages to set up co-ops. So there was somewhat of a mixed assignment, but the people that got those assignments were either trained as artists and also had some Spanish skills so that they were more proficient in language, that they could pick up the Indian dialects because the object was to have a solid survival rate.

[Assistant] But they were part of your training?

[User] They were still part of our same training group, because even in the towns it was, it was somewhat of a rural atmosphere.

[Assistant] So what was, what were the components of training?

[User] Well, OK. First of all, language. Intensive language. I think that ate most of the day.

[Assistant] How many hours a day?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were still part of our same training group, because even in the towns it was, it was somewhat of a rural atmosphere.

[Assistant] So what was, what were the components of training?

[User] Well, OK. First of all, language. Intensive language. I think that ate most of the day.

[Assistant] How many hours a day?

[User] Um, gosh. Just trying to remember. I think at least 4 to 5 hours of language a day. Maybe I'm overestimating that. I don't know. But that was what we started out with in the morning. Language, language, language.

[Assistant] Was it just classroom or did you have language lab with the earphones and speaking?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, gosh. Just trying to remember. I think at least 4 to 5 hours of language a day. Maybe I'm overestimating that. I don't know. But that was what we started out with in the morning. Language, language, language.

[Assistant] Was it just classroom or did you have language lab with the earphones and speaking?

[User] Um, no, I don't. I don't remember the language lab. It's funny. I know we went to Guadalajara for two weeks halfway through training.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And we were assigned to different Mexican families. And that was a good, good way to practice what we had been learning. But our teachers were excellent. They were from all different countries in South America and therefore they each had a little different dialect of their own. And we were shifted around among them so that we had, we were forced to almost hear Spanish, and we spoke nothing but Spanish in the class, I mean.

[Assistant] Just in the class though?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, no, I don't. I don't remember the language lab. It's funny. I know we went to Guadalajara for two weeks halfway through training.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And we were assigned to different Mexican families. And that was a good, good way to practice what we had been learning. But our teachers were excellent. They were from all different countries in South America and therefore they each had a little different dialect of their own. And we were shifted around among them so that we had, we were forced to almost hear Spanish, and we spoke nothing but Spanish in the class, I mean.

[Assistant] Just in the class though?

[User] Oh, yeah, just in the class. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And as well as the books and the grammar and all. But it was hard. It was very hard for me, the Spanish.

[Assistant] The expectation was that in the work you were going to be doing, you would be working in Spanish?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we were assigned to different Mexican families. And that was a good, good way to practice what we had been learning. But our teachers were excellent. They were from all different countries in South America and therefore they each had a little different dialect of their own. And we were shifted around among them so that we had, we were forced to almost hear Spanish, and we spoke nothing but Spanish in the class, I mean.

[Assistant] Just in the class though?

[User] Oh, yeah, just in the class. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And as well as the books and the grammar and all. But it was hard. It was very hard for me, the Spanish.

[Assistant] The expectation was that in the work you were going to be doing, you would be working in Spanish?

[User] Oh, definitely. Oh, definitely. We were, we were assigned to people that were, first of all, extremely poor farmers. And we, that was the only way we were going to be able to communicate. Yeah.

[Assistant] Was anything said that your ability to learn the language up to a certain level would be part of the selection process?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah, just in the class. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And as well as the books and the grammar and all. But it was hard. It was very hard for me, the Spanish.

[Assistant] The expectation was that in the work you were going to be doing, you would be working in Spanish?

[User] Oh, definitely. Oh, definitely. We were, we were assigned to people that were, first of all, extremely poor farmers. And we, that was the only way we were going to be able to communicate. Yeah.

[Assistant] Was anything said that your ability to learn the language up to a certain level would be part of the selection process?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And you recall how?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, definitely. Oh, definitely. We were, we were assigned to people that were, first of all, extremely poor farmers. And we, that was the only way we were going to be able to communicate. Yeah.

[Assistant] Was anything said that your ability to learn the language up to a certain level would be part of the selection process?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And you recall how?

[User] Yeah, I think they used the guidelines.

[Assistant] Foreign Service ratings.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And you recall how?

[User] Yeah, I think they used the guidelines.

[Assistant] Foreign Service ratings.

[User] I think Foreign Service rating.

[Assistant] One, two, three, four, five.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I think they used the guidelines.

[Assistant] Foreign Service ratings.

[User] I think Foreign Service rating.

[Assistant] One, two, three, four, five.

[User] Yes, you're right. And I believe you could even score zero. And it meant something. But I think survival rating, if I my memory was one, I think one, and I think five, which is the highest, was an educated native born. Yeah. Yeah. And not many volunteers even got that far. But I think they wanted you to get to a one by the time you left for country of service.

[Assistant] Do you recall if any of your trainees were Hispanic?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think Foreign Service rating.

[Assistant] One, two, three, four, five.

[User] Yes, you're right. And I believe you could even score zero. And it meant something. But I think survival rating, if I my memory was one, I think one, and I think five, which is the highest, was an educated native born. Yeah. Yeah. And not many volunteers even got that far. But I think they wanted you to get to a one by the time you left for country of service.

[Assistant] Do you recall if any of your trainees were Hispanic?

[User] There was one woman. I was thinking as I was talking about the five rating, because there was one woman, Ann Salemi, whom we don't know whatever happened to her, but she was a five. I mean, she was a five when she went in and very much way over us. She had been raised in South America at times and so.

[Assistant] There were married couples in the group as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, you're right. And I believe you could even score zero. And it meant something. But I think survival rating, if I my memory was one, I think one, and I think five, which is the highest, was an educated native born. Yeah. Yeah. And not many volunteers even got that far. But I think they wanted you to get to a one by the time you left for country of service.

[Assistant] Do you recall if any of your trainees were Hispanic?

[User] There was one woman. I was thinking as I was talking about the five rating, because there was one woman, Ann Salemi, whom we don't know whatever happened to her, but she was a five. I mean, she was a five when she went in and very much way over us. She had been raised in South America at times and so.

[Assistant] There were married couples in the group as well?

[User] Lots of married couples, yeah. Coming from their honeymoon, some of them, right to training.

[Assistant] And with them, the expectation was that both would serve as volunteers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was one woman. I was thinking as I was talking about the five rating, because there was one woman, Ann Salemi, whom we don't know whatever happened to her, but she was a five. I mean, she was a five when she went in and very much way over us. She had been raised in South America at times and so.

[Assistant] There were married couples in the group as well?

[User] Lots of married couples, yeah. Coming from their honeymoon, some of them, right to training.

[Assistant] And with them, the expectation was that both would serve as volunteers?

[User] In the same location. Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, sure, sure. Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] What else did you do in training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, then there was, um, oh, what do you call it?

[Assistant] Cultural?

[User] Oh, cultural. Oh, yeah. Cultural and area studies, sure, which would be sort of like social studies. And the history. The history. The history of the country.

[Assistant] American studies?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] You learn about communism?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, cultural. Oh, yeah. Cultural and area studies, sure, which would be sort of like social studies. And the history. The history. The history of the country.

[Assistant] American studies?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] You learn about communism?

[User] No, I don't remember studying. No, no. The emphasis was totally on the history of Guatemala and Latin America. And no, don't remember any indoctrination kind of thing, that's what I call that. But no.

[Assistant] What about technical studies?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] You learn about communism?

[User] No, I don't remember studying. No, no. The emphasis was totally on the history of Guatemala and Latin America. And no, don't remember any indoctrination kind of thing, that's what I call that. But no.

[Assistant] What about technical studies?

[User] Technical studies, we were taken out to the local agriculture parts of the campus and we had our gardens. We were planting things. And, you know, for these city slickers, you know, holding a spade and planting and all. It was, it was hands-on. I remember having to get up early one morning at 3:00 because the pigs had just had piglets and we went out and had to clip their ears to identify them. And that was quite a.

[Assistant] You could handle it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Technical studies, we were taken out to the local agriculture parts of the campus and we had our gardens. We were planting things. And, you know, for these city slickers, you know, holding a spade and planting and all. It was, it was hands-on. I remember having to get up early one morning at 3:00 because the pigs had just had piglets and we went out and had to clip their ears to identify them. And that was quite a.

[Assistant] You could handle it?

[User] A funny. Well, yeah, we did it, but I mean much.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yeah, yeah. I did it. Much squealing like the pigs, but we did it. And then I remember having to kill a chicken single handedly and chopping off the head. And you know that was in case we were stranded I guess, if we're hungry and we had to get food to eat. And that was also quite, quite, uh, quite challenging I mean.

[Assistant] But none of the training was very specific to the work you would actually be doing? I mean, it was sort of general?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A funny. Well, yeah, we did it, but I mean much.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yeah, yeah. I did it. Much squealing like the pigs, but we did it. And then I remember having to kill a chicken single handedly and chopping off the head. And you know that was in case we were stranded I guess, if we're hungry and we had to get food to eat. And that was also quite, quite, uh, quite challenging I mean.

[Assistant] But none of the training was very specific to the work you would actually be doing? I mean, it was sort of general?

[User] Uh, right. It was general.

[Assistant] Did anyone come up from Peace Corps, Guatemala, any returned volunteers or staff?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, right. It was general.

[Assistant] Did anyone come up from Peace Corps, Guatemala, any returned volunteers or staff?

[User] No, no, not that I recall. Not that I recall. Oh, wait a minute. No, no. There were. There were a couple of returned volunteers from Latin America. I can't say specifically Guatemala, but yes. Yes, there were. And I remember one woman, in fact, her name was Sarah, specifically. And she was giving us the inside on, you know, what women should wear and how we should behave and things like that. The cultural aspects of being a woman in a Latin country and what we could expect, not expect. And oh, we had home economics. I couldn't think of that because I'd never had home economics my whole life, but I had to sew. I had to learn how to sew and make dresses, because you weren't really supposed to wear pants down there, so. And we had to buy fabric and we made our own dresses and I hated that. I hated that and.

[Assistant] Why?

[User] I'm just not very domestic. And that was, to me, a joke. I did it. I did it. But I, and I never made anything down there. I hired a local person to do anything I needed to be done. So it was so cheap.

[Assistant] Were you the oldest, an older, one of the oldest in the group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, not that I recall. Not that I recall. Oh, wait a minute. No, no. There were. There were a couple of returned volunteers from Latin America. I can't say specifically Guatemala, but yes. Yes, there were. And I remember one woman, in fact, her name was Sarah, specifically. And she was giving us the inside on, you know, what women should wear and how we should behave and things like that. The cultural aspects of being a woman in a Latin country and what we could expect, not expect. And oh, we had home economics. I couldn't think of that because I'd never had home economics my whole life, but I had to sew. I had to learn how to sew and make dresses, because you weren't really supposed to wear pants down there, so. And we had to buy fabric and we made our own dresses and I hated that. I hated that and.

[Assistant] Why?

[User] I'm just not very domestic. And that was, to me, a joke. I did it. I did it. But I, and I never made anything down there. I hired a local person to do anything I needed to be done. So it was so cheap.

[Assistant] Were you the oldest, an older, one of the oldest in the group?

[User] Yes. When I arrived, I became the abuela, which means grandmother in Spanish. That was my first Spanish word. One young man who had studied Spanish came up to me and called, said, hey, an abuela, abuela. And anyway, that was the joke.

[Assistant] That cut two ways.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm just not very domestic. And that was, to me, a joke. I did it. I did it. But I, and I never made anything down there. I hired a local person to do anything I needed to be done. So it was so cheap.

[Assistant] Were you the oldest, an older, one of the oldest in the group?

[User] Yes. When I arrived, I became the abuela, which means grandmother in Spanish. That was my first Spanish word. One young man who had studied Spanish came up to me and called, said, hey, an abuela, abuela. And anyway, that was the joke.

[Assistant] That cut two ways.

[User] Right but uh.

[Assistant] You were only 29.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. When I arrived, I became the abuela, which means grandmother in Spanish. That was my first Spanish word. One young man who had studied Spanish came up to me and called, said, hey, an abuela, abuela. And anyway, that was the joke.

[Assistant] That cut two ways.

[User] Right but uh.

[Assistant] You were only 29.

[User] I know, I know. And I look back now, I was still a kid. But shortly afterwards, a 64 year old nurse came from LA, Los Angeles, and joined our group. So she took the title from me. And she's dead now. Mary Jackson, African American woman. Wonderful lady. [tape break for sirens]

[Assistant] We were talking about training.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right but uh.

[Assistant] You were only 29.

[User] I know, I know. And I look back now, I was still a kid. But shortly afterwards, a 64 year old nurse came from LA, Los Angeles, and joined our group. So she took the title from me. And she's dead now. Mary Jackson, African American woman. Wonderful lady. [tape break for sirens]

[Assistant] We were talking about training.

[User] Yeah. And Mary Jackson, I said that she took the.

[Assistant] Became the grandma.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I know, I know. And I look back now, I was still a kid. But shortly afterwards, a 64 year old nurse came from LA, Los Angeles, and joined our group. So she took the title from me. And she's dead now. Mary Jackson, African American woman. Wonderful lady. [tape break for sirens]

[Assistant] We were talking about training.

[User] Yeah. And Mary Jackson, I said that she took the.

[Assistant] Became the grandma.

[User] She became the grandmother. And she was wonderful. Now she, because she was a nurse, and she actually was working in a town as a nurse. So she didn't do what we did.

[Assistant] How did the group socialize?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She became the grandmother. And she was wonderful. Now she, because she was a nurse, and she actually was working in a town as a nurse. So she didn't do what we did.

[Assistant] How did the group socialize?

[User] We would pile in a pickup truck on a Saturday night and be driven by one of the.

[Assistant] In training.

[User] In training, yeah. Oh, yeah. In training. One of the, I call him a cow hand, I don't know what, but he looked like a cow hand to me. He was a fun guy, but he always seemed to be around. He was around when we cut the piglets' ears and he wasn't really an instructor, but he was there. And he would drive us in this pickup truck to the local bar where they played Western music, and we danced and we let off steam and drank a lot of beer and had a good time.

[Assistant] Yeah. Where in the training did the Guadalajara experience come?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We would pile in a pickup truck on a Saturday night and be driven by one of the.

[Assistant] In training.

[User] In training, yeah. Oh, yeah. In training. One of the, I call him a cow hand, I don't know what, but he looked like a cow hand to me. He was a fun guy, but he always seemed to be around. He was around when we cut the piglets' ears and he wasn't really an instructor, but he was there. And he would drive us in this pickup truck to the local bar where they played Western music, and we danced and we let off steam and drank a lot of beer and had a good time.

[Assistant] Yeah. Where in the training did the Guadalajara experience come?

[User] I guess I was about midway through.

[Assistant] Was there a selection, mid selection board? Do you recall that, with people disappearing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In training, yeah. Oh, yeah. In training. One of the, I call him a cow hand, I don't know what, but he looked like a cow hand to me. He was a fun guy, but he always seemed to be around. He was around when we cut the piglets' ears and he wasn't really an instructor, but he was there. And he would drive us in this pickup truck to the local bar where they played Western music, and we danced and we let off steam and drank a lot of beer and had a good time.

[Assistant] Yeah. Where in the training did the Guadalajara experience come?

[User] I guess I was about midway through.

[Assistant] Was there a selection, mid selection board? Do you recall that, with people disappearing?

[User] Yeah, we. Yeah, there along the way, we became conscious of so-and-so had left or so-and-so had left, but never really conscious.

[Assistant] Did you all have to see a psychiatrist?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I guess I was about midway through.

[Assistant] Was there a selection, mid selection board? Do you recall that, with people disappearing?

[User] Yeah, we. Yeah, there along the way, we became conscious of so-and-so had left or so-and-so had left, but never really conscious.

[Assistant] Did you all have to see a psychiatrist?

[User] Oh, definitely.

[Assistant] And how did you handle that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we. Yeah, there along the way, we became conscious of so-and-so had left or so-and-so had left, but never really conscious.

[Assistant] Did you all have to see a psychiatrist?

[User] Oh, definitely.

[Assistant] And how did you handle that?

[User] Well, um, that was all new to me. But I will remember one interview. I don't know whether it was the first one or the second one or what, but I remember this one guy saying, and what romance are you running away from? And in a way it was true. However, I was stunned and I just remember turning and looking him straight in the eye and saying, none of your business. And actually, I think that's the right answer.

[Assistant] If you say it with conviction.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, definitely.

[Assistant] And how did you handle that?

[User] Well, um, that was all new to me. But I will remember one interview. I don't know whether it was the first one or the second one or what, but I remember this one guy saying, and what romance are you running away from? And in a way it was true. However, I was stunned and I just remember turning and looking him straight in the eye and saying, none of your business. And actually, I think that's the right answer.

[Assistant] If you say it with conviction.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, so it was the first time I was ever, I guess. I guess a hot button or whatever I had reached me. And I realized it was now or never, you know, to come up with this or base it or whatever. And so but, you know, it was the truth. And, you know, so I. And that was the end of it.

[Assistant] And you weren't concerned about selection? You felt you were doing well in training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, so it was the first time I was ever, I guess. I guess a hot button or whatever I had reached me. And I realized it was now or never, you know, to come up with this or base it or whatever. And so but, you know, it was the truth. And, you know, so I. And that was the end of it.

[Assistant] And you weren't concerned about selection? You felt you were doing well in training?

[User] Yeah, I felt. It was, there were moments when I thought, do I really want to do this?

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] I mean, I was really thinking this is so foreign to me. I mean, the farm work and, I mean, I was a city girl. I was born and raised and um. But they were, they were quick. They were in passing. I always loved adventure. So and I always wanted to do things that were different. So I thought, you know, this is different.

[Assistant] Were you reporting back to family and friends about?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I felt. It was, there were moments when I thought, do I really want to do this?

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] I mean, I was really thinking this is so foreign to me. I mean, the farm work and, I mean, I was a city girl. I was born and raised and um. But they were, they were quick. They were in passing. I always loved adventure. So and I always wanted to do things that were different. So I thought, you know, this is different.

[Assistant] Were you reporting back to family and friends about?

[User] Oh, I was a big letter writer. Yeah.

[Assistant] Some of your doubts as well as the?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, I was really thinking this is so foreign to me. I mean, the farm work and, I mean, I was a city girl. I was born and raised and um. But they were, they were quick. They were in passing. I always loved adventure. So and I always wanted to do things that were different. So I thought, you know, this is different.

[Assistant] Were you reporting back to family and friends about?

[User] Oh, I was a big letter writer. Yeah.

[Assistant] Some of your doubts as well as the?

[User] Oh, sure, yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. How did the Guadalajara, how was that organized?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, well, it was organized by somebody, I don't know. But we all went down on a bus and it was a long ride. I remember that. And lots of joking and fun along the way. And when we got to Guadalajara, we were then dispersed. I guess our host families came and picked us up. And I was living with the town sheriff.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Yeah. Excuse me. [tape break] To be the town sheriff.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] And one other guy in my group was assigned to the same town. I mean, they sort of had us.

[Assistant] These were towns satellite to Guadalajara?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Excuse me. [tape break] To be the town sheriff.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] And one other guy in my group was assigned to the same town. I mean, they sort of had us.

[Assistant] These were towns satellite to Guadalajara?

[User] Satellite to Guadalajara, yeah. Yeah. Neighborhoods or outposts or whatever. And Gordon, Gordon Frost was my partner. They set us up with buddies, you know, somebody that if we really had trouble, we could run to and we each knew where each other was. We would go within walking distance. And the sheriff and his wife and I think about eight children in about a three room house, three or four room. And I remember sleeping with about four of the kids in one bed. And believe me, that was culture shock. That was really culture shock. And uh, it was, that was rattling. That was rattling. Although, you know, I survived it. I survived it. It was OK. There was enough, there were enough good things occurring that were overcoming whatever.

[Assistant] Were you able to use your Spanish or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Satellite to Guadalajara, yeah. Yeah. Neighborhoods or outposts or whatever. And Gordon, Gordon Frost was my partner. They set us up with buddies, you know, somebody that if we really had trouble, we could run to and we each knew where each other was. We would go within walking distance. And the sheriff and his wife and I think about eight children in about a three room house, three or four room. And I remember sleeping with about four of the kids in one bed. And believe me, that was culture shock. That was really culture shock. And uh, it was, that was rattling. That was rattling. Although, you know, I survived it. I survived it. It was OK. There was enough, there were enough good things occurring that were overcoming whatever.

[Assistant] Were you able to use your Spanish or?

[User] I had to.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] I had to. There was no choice. Oh, yeah. And I was, I was communicating and used my hands a lot to motion and what I didn't know. But yeah, yeah, I was, I was surviving.

[Assistant] And people were tolerant of that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had to.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] I had to. There was no choice. Oh, yeah. And I was, I was communicating and used my hands a lot to motion and what I didn't know. But yeah, yeah, I was, I was surviving.

[Assistant] And people were tolerant of that?

[User] Sure. Oh yeah. And they were laughing at some of my pronunciation and that always helps, you know, a laugh here and there is always.

[Assistant] What was your agenda for the two weeks?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had to. There was no choice. Oh, yeah. And I was, I was communicating and used my hands a lot to motion and what I didn't know. But yeah, yeah, I was, I was surviving.

[Assistant] And people were tolerant of that?

[User] Sure. Oh yeah. And they were laughing at some of my pronunciation and that always helps, you know, a laugh here and there is always.

[Assistant] What was your agenda for the two weeks?

[User] Um.

[Assistant] Other than language learning?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um.

[Assistant] Other than language learning?

[User] I can't remember. You know, I think I. I think I went with a local school teacher. I sort of remember going to a school situation and maybe being her assistant or helping her out with certain things. Because the sheriff, of course, was doing his sheriff thing.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And the wife was at home with the kids. So I think, I think maybe I was under the guise of the school teacher. The female teacher kind of took me out every day. And but I remember a local Saturday night, uh fiesta. Not fiesta, I don't know what, in the square. Everybody goes to the square on a Saturday night and they promenade around and you have to, if somebody wants to dance with you, they come and give you a cheap gold ring. And I remember being, getting a gold ring and being asked to dance in the town square. And that was, it was, it was strange. It was strange but fun. It was fun.

[Assistant] Yeah. And during the two weeks, do you occasionally seek out Gordon so you could just sit and talk English?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I can't remember. You know, I think I. I think I went with a local school teacher. I sort of remember going to a school situation and maybe being her assistant or helping her out with certain things. Because the sheriff, of course, was doing his sheriff thing.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And the wife was at home with the kids. So I think, I think maybe I was under the guise of the school teacher. The female teacher kind of took me out every day. And but I remember a local Saturday night, uh fiesta. Not fiesta, I don't know what, in the square. Everybody goes to the square on a Saturday night and they promenade around and you have to, if somebody wants to dance with you, they come and give you a cheap gold ring. And I remember being, getting a gold ring and being asked to dance in the town square. And that was, it was, it was strange. It was strange but fun. It was fun.

[Assistant] Yeah. And during the two weeks, do you occasionally seek out Gordon so you could just sit and talk English?

[User] Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. You crave that. You craved it because talking a foreign language all the time is tiring. It's exhausting. It really is. It's because you have to think. You have to translate in your brain and then make it come out. And it can be very, very tiring but.

[Assistant] End of the two weeks, back to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. You crave that. You craved it because talking a foreign language all the time is tiring. It's exhausting. It really is. It's because you have to think. You have to translate in your brain and then make it come out. And it can be very, very tiring but.

[Assistant] End of the two weeks, back to?

[User] End of the two weeks, back to Las Cruces for the rest of the training.

[Assistant] Big reunion?

[User] Big reunion, yeah. A lot of partying at the town bar that weekend and, oh, tales all the way back on the bus. I mean, we were laughing and comparing notes and things. I mean, it was, uh, it was probably was a real bonding experience there.

[Assistant] How many were in the group at this point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Big reunion, yeah. A lot of partying at the town bar that weekend and, oh, tales all the way back on the bus. I mean, we were laughing and comparing notes and things. I mean, it was, uh, it was probably was a real bonding experience there.

[Assistant] How many were in the group at this point?

[User] Well, we started out with 60 some. We were pretty large group and, um, 13. I remember 13 were either let go or left during training and then another 13 dropped out or were let go in country.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] So I think we ended up in the low forties of people that actually stayed the whole time. And I actually, I know these statistics because I just did them going through that book.

[Assistant] Yeah. That's OK. Let's come back. You're back in Las Cruces. Another 4 to 6 weeks of training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we started out with 60 some. We were pretty large group and, um, 13. I remember 13 were either let go or left during training and then another 13 dropped out or were let go in country.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] So I think we ended up in the low forties of people that actually stayed the whole time. And I actually, I know these statistics because I just did them going through that book.

[Assistant] Yeah. That's OK. Let's come back. You're back in Las Cruces. Another 4 to 6 weeks of training?

[User] 4 to 6 weeks, yeah. It was 13 week training all together. Thirteen weeks, yeah. And then we.

[Assistant] More of the same, pretty much same pattern?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] 4 to 6 weeks, yeah. It was 13 week training all together. Thirteen weeks, yeah. And then we.

[Assistant] More of the same, pretty much same pattern?

[User] Yeah. Language.

[Assistant] Technical studies.

[User] Technical studies. Just getting us used to rural life, I guess. Health issues. A lot of health issues. How to boil and how to use iodine tablets for our water. We were then starting to think of what we were to bring. [tape break] For us. And pressure cooker was something that we should buy because we didn't know what kind of veggies we were going to be finding or what kind of anything what we did. But you needed a pressure cooker. It would take forever to cook it. I remember being advised to take a cookbook, The Joy of Cooking, which I still have that same cookbook. It is so old and it's so brown, but it has meaning to me. I won't give it up. And that came in very handy because I had never really done much cooking. As I said, I'm not domestic, so I needed every bit of help when it came to the kitchen.

[Assistant] Did you do any side trips out of Las Cruces as part of training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Technical studies. Just getting us used to rural life, I guess. Health issues. A lot of health issues. How to boil and how to use iodine tablets for our water. We were then starting to think of what we were to bring. [tape break] For us. And pressure cooker was something that we should buy because we didn't know what kind of veggies we were going to be finding or what kind of anything what we did. But you needed a pressure cooker. It would take forever to cook it. I remember being advised to take a cookbook, The Joy of Cooking, which I still have that same cookbook. It is so old and it's so brown, but it has meaning to me. I won't give it up. And that came in very handy because I had never really done much cooking. As I said, I'm not domestic, so I needed every bit of help when it came to the kitchen.

[Assistant] Did you do any side trips out of Las Cruces as part of training?

[User] The only side trips, no, we was pretty intensive. And just weekends we were pretty much. I don't think, well, we didn't have wheels, we didn't have transportation. We were pretty isolated. We did a very important thing. We learned how to ride horses.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] That was part of the training, because we were told when we got in country we were going to be given the choice of either getting a horse or a bike for our own transportation, because we were, we knew we were going to be in the outpost.

[Assistant] Well, that was the first for you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was part of the training, because we were told when we got in country we were going to be given the choice of either getting a horse or a bike for our own transportation, because we were, we knew we were going to be in the outpost.

[Assistant] Well, that was the first for you.

[User] It certainly was. It certainly was. I had never, well, maybe a pony when I was a kid. Oh, I'll never forget the first day at this ranch. That's right. On Sundays we went to the ranch and we'd ride a horse up the mountains, down the mountains. And I remember this woman, very western looking dried face. And where are you from? I said, Philadelphia. Go bring Pokey. So that's the horse they gave me, Pokey. And I remember getting on the horse and, oh, well, it took me a while to find that center of gravity. And especially going up the mountain and down the mountain, you keep thinking you're going to fall off. And but by the end of the afternoon and we were, we were gone a good two, two and a half hours.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] I remember. And it was rugged. It was rugged. And it was scary to be up high on a horse when you didn't know about it.

[Assistant] You ever fall off?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I remember. And it was rugged. It was rugged. And it was scary to be up high on a horse when you didn't know about it.

[Assistant] You ever fall off?

[User] No, but one of the guys fell off. He was being cocky and he fell into a cactus plant. So, I mean, you know, it was, and we saw some rattlesnakes and thank goodness the horse didn't.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But I'll just never forget as we were coming down, and of course you come down off the mountain and there's this flat plain, and then the ranch is beyond. Well, good old Pokey sees home and Pokey turns into Speedy. And I am, I am terrified. I'm terrified. I'm hanging on to him for dear life because I had gotten used to Pokey, but Pokey was heading home. And I made it. I didn't fall off. And I'm glad he, I glad he waited till the end to do that. But he took off and that was quite an experience.

[Assistant] When you finally get down to Guatemala, do you have a chance to choose between the horse and the bike?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, but I chose a bike. I had too much Philadelphia in me. I wasn't about to have a horse to take care of and.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] No, no, that was enough for me. Several of the guys did choose horses. You had to take care of the horses, too. I mean, it was, plus the horses. That was a funny thing because the horses were Guatemalan horses. They were little. One of the guys that did get one, I think his feet almost were touching, touching the ground. So it was, it was sort of comical in a way to see these big gringos on these little horses.

[Assistant] Training's over.

[User] Training's over.

[Assistant] Do you recall final selection? Was there much trauma?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, that was enough for me. Several of the guys did choose horses. You had to take care of the horses, too. I mean, it was, plus the horses. That was a funny thing because the horses were Guatemalan horses. They were little. One of the guys that did get one, I think his feet almost were touching, touching the ground. So it was, it was sort of comical in a way to see these big gringos on these little horses.

[Assistant] Training's over.

[User] Training's over.

[Assistant] Do you recall final selection? Was there much trauma?

[User] No, I would say that. I think anybody that made it to the last day was considered accepted. I don't remember any formal, like, diploma or anything. Maybe I have one buried somewhere, but I don't remember that. I just remember those that left or were deselected went very quietly without any, you know, it was just something that happened in the dead of night or something and no big deal.

[Assistant] Did you get a chance for home leave?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Training's over.

[Assistant] Do you recall final selection? Was there much trauma?

[User] No, I would say that. I think anybody that made it to the last day was considered accepted. I don't remember any formal, like, diploma or anything. Maybe I have one buried somewhere, but I don't remember that. I just remember those that left or were deselected went very quietly without any, you know, it was just something that happened in the dead of night or something and no big deal.

[Assistant] Did you get a chance for home leave?

[User] Yes, we were able to come home if we wanted to, and I did opt to come home. My sister.

[Assistant] But you had already packed.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I would say that. I think anybody that made it to the last day was considered accepted. I don't remember any formal, like, diploma or anything. Maybe I have one buried somewhere, but I don't remember that. I just remember those that left or were deselected went very quietly without any, you know, it was just something that happened in the dead of night or something and no big deal.

[Assistant] Did you get a chance for home leave?

[User] Yes, we were able to come home if we wanted to, and I did opt to come home. My sister.

[Assistant] But you had already packed.

[User] Oh, yeah. Oh, we'd packed from there.

[Assistant] Everything was in the trunk?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, we were able to come home if we wanted to, and I did opt to come home. My sister.

[Assistant] But you had already packed.

[User] Oh, yeah. Oh, we'd packed from there.

[Assistant] Everything was in the trunk?

[User] Everything was gone. Yeah. And you were allowed to come home and then the next thing you'd meet up with the group, I believe in Houston. We all re-met each other in Houston before the flight to Guatemala. I think I had about three days.

[Assistant] Any second thoughts when you came back to Philly?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah. Oh, we'd packed from there.

[Assistant] Everything was in the trunk?

[User] Everything was gone. Yeah. And you were allowed to come home and then the next thing you'd meet up with the group, I believe in Houston. We all re-met each other in Houston before the flight to Guatemala. I think I had about three days.

[Assistant] Any second thoughts when you came back to Philly?

[User] No, no. By this time, I was, I was fine. I was OK with it and actually looking forward to it.

[Assistant] Mama didn't grab you and say, no, don't go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Everything was gone. Yeah. And you were allowed to come home and then the next thing you'd meet up with the group, I believe in Houston. We all re-met each other in Houston before the flight to Guatemala. I think I had about three days.

[Assistant] Any second thoughts when you came back to Philly?

[User] No, no. By this time, I was, I was fine. I was OK with it and actually looking forward to it.

[Assistant] Mama didn't grab you and say, no, don't go?

[User] No, no, no, no, no, no. I think she was actually quite proud of me, you know, and my sister had been diagnosed with breast cancer when I was in training, and that was kind of tough. So I actually came home to see her. She had come home, you know, she was, she was doing OK then. So actually, she died shortly after I got out of the Peace Corps so. She was a nun. She was a nun, by the way so.

[Assistant] Your other siblings?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. By this time, I was, I was fine. I was OK with it and actually looking forward to it.

[Assistant] Mama didn't grab you and say, no, don't go?

[User] No, no, no, no, no, no. I think she was actually quite proud of me, you know, and my sister had been diagnosed with breast cancer when I was in training, and that was kind of tough. So I actually came home to see her. She had come home, you know, she was, she was doing OK then. So actually, she died shortly after I got out of the Peace Corps so. She was a nun. She was a nun, by the way so.

[Assistant] Your other siblings?

[User] My other siblings. I had at the time two married sisters with children and a married brother.

[Assistant] And they were accepting of what you were doing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, no, no, no, no. I think she was actually quite proud of me, you know, and my sister had been diagnosed with breast cancer when I was in training, and that was kind of tough. So I actually came home to see her. She had come home, you know, she was, she was doing OK then. So actually, she died shortly after I got out of the Peace Corps so. She was a nun. She was a nun, by the way so.

[Assistant] Your other siblings?

[User] My other siblings. I had at the time two married sisters with children and a married brother.

[Assistant] And they were accepting of what you were doing?

[User] Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think secretly they thought it was a little crazy, but then they always knew I was a little crazy. I always beat to a different drummer anyway, so they accepted it. I think they just were happy to see me happy, you know, because I wasn't in the mainstream of married, raising kids, or that yet. I was the sort of the oddball single thing.

[Assistant] Did you see that boyfriend during the three days?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My other siblings. I had at the time two married sisters with children and a married brother.

[Assistant] And they were accepting of what you were doing?

[User] Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think secretly they thought it was a little crazy, but then they always knew I was a little crazy. I always beat to a different drummer anyway, so they accepted it. I think they just were happy to see me happy, you know, because I wasn't in the mainstream of married, raising kids, or that yet. I was the sort of the oddball single thing.

[Assistant] Did you see that boyfriend during the three days?

[User] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He was, well, he was well gone. He was well gone when I went in the Peace Corps. No, no, no, no.

[Assistant] So then you report to Houston.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think secretly they thought it was a little crazy, but then they always knew I was a little crazy. I always beat to a different drummer anyway, so they accepted it. I think they just were happy to see me happy, you know, because I wasn't in the mainstream of married, raising kids, or that yet. I was the sort of the oddball single thing.

[Assistant] Did you see that boyfriend during the three days?

[User] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He was, well, he was well gone. He was well gone when I went in the Peace Corps. No, no, no, no.

[Assistant] So then you report to Houston.

[User] Well, we all re-met in Houston. I remember being hot as blazes.

[Assistant] Do you remember flying out of Philadelphia now? This is like the beginning of the two years.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. No, no memories. It's funny how some people remember, you know? No, I was excited. I really was happy.

[Assistant] So then.

[User] Houston, I remember waiting.

[Assistant] Another reunion.

[User] Yeah. Another reunion. Everybody was chatting. You know, some had gone home. Some hadn't gone home. I remember it being hot as blazes in Houston. I thought Philadelphia got hot, but I was stinking hot. This was June. This was in June. And then we got in country and as I said.

[Assistant] Was it a charter flight or a regular flight?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Houston, I remember waiting.

[Assistant] Another reunion.

[User] Yeah. Another reunion. Everybody was chatting. You know, some had gone home. Some hadn't gone home. I remember it being hot as blazes in Houston. I thought Philadelphia got hot, but I was stinking hot. This was June. This was in June. And then we got in country and as I said.

[Assistant] Was it a charter flight or a regular flight?

[User] I think it was a regular flight. Yeah, but we probably filled most of the plane. There were about 40 something.

[Assistant] Were you met on arrival?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Another reunion. Everybody was chatting. You know, some had gone home. Some hadn't gone home. I remember it being hot as blazes in Houston. I thought Philadelphia got hot, but I was stinking hot. This was June. This was in June. And then we got in country and as I said.

[Assistant] Was it a charter flight or a regular flight?

[User] I think it was a regular flight. Yeah, but we probably filled most of the plane. There were about 40 something.

[Assistant] Were you met on arrival?

[User] We had to have been met, sure.

[Assistant] Where do you fly into?