[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, we got in like, I got in at 5:00 and we flew out the next morning about 10:00 or 11:00.

[Assistant] And was that a charter plane?

[User] No. We were on a plane with other people.

[Assistant] At that point, who was it that was on the flight?

[User] There were 42 of us. I know 42 went down and like, I think, 38 came back. That's my count.

[Assistant] Forty-two, was that all the health ed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. We were on a plane with other people.

[Assistant] At that point, who was it that was on the flight?

[User] There were 42 of us. I know 42 went down and like, I think, 38 came back. That's my count.

[Assistant] Forty-two, was that all the health ed?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] OK, so the final selection was 42 women.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were 42 of us. I know 42 went down and like, I think, 38 came back. That's my count.

[Assistant] Forty-two, was that all the health ed?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] OK, so the final selection was 42 women.

[User] Right. And the Ecuador V boys were not there. They were on their own. Different.

[Assistant] Flew to Miami and then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] OK, so the final selection was 42 women.

[User] Right. And the Ecuador V boys were not there. They were on their own. Different.

[Assistant] Flew to Miami and then?

[User] Then to Bogota. Stopped in Panama. Got into Bogota.

[Assistant] OK. Talk about your impression of arriving.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And the Ecuador V boys were not there. They were on their own. Different.

[Assistant] Flew to Miami and then?

[User] Then to Bogota. Stopped in Panama. Got into Bogota.

[Assistant] OK. Talk about your impression of arriving.

[User] Well, we were all women and there was Colombia III waiting for us. We had many, there were many male volunteers.

[Assistant] To greet you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Then to Bogota. Stopped in Panama. Got into Bogota.

[Assistant] OK. Talk about your impression of arriving.

[User] Well, we were all women and there was Colombia III waiting for us. We had many, there were many male volunteers.

[Assistant] To greet you?

[User] To greet us. And then we were in Bogota for three or four days.

[Assistant] Where did you stay?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we were all women and there was Colombia III waiting for us. We had many, there were many male volunteers.

[Assistant] To greet you?

[User] To greet us. And then we were in Bogota for three or four days.

[Assistant] Where did you stay?

[User] And we stayed, I can't think. Hotel San Francisco. And it's real important because what I was going to say is, I was blessed to be with a wonderful group of women who were so funny. And it turned out the Hotel San Francisco was number one, owned by communists, and number two, was known as a premier place for call, the Colombian equivalent of call girls. So that was.

[Assistant] You only learned this later?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] To greet us. And then we were in Bogota for three or four days.

[Assistant] Where did you stay?

[User] And we stayed, I can't think. Hotel San Francisco. And it's real important because what I was going to say is, I was blessed to be with a wonderful group of women who were so funny. And it turned out the Hotel San Francisco was number one, owned by communists, and number two, was known as a premier place for call, the Colombian equivalent of call girls. So that was.

[Assistant] You only learned this later?

[User] Later, yes, after we always made it a point to stay at the hotel.

[Assistant] What was your initial response reaction to being in Colombia? I assume you tried to start speaking Spanish.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we stayed, I can't think. Hotel San Francisco. And it's real important because what I was going to say is, I was blessed to be with a wonderful group of women who were so funny. And it turned out the Hotel San Francisco was number one, owned by communists, and number two, was known as a premier place for call, the Colombian equivalent of call girls. So that was.

[Assistant] You only learned this later?

[User] Later, yes, after we always made it a point to stay at the hotel.

[Assistant] What was your initial response reaction to being in Colombia? I assume you tried to start speaking Spanish.

[User] We were still then, we were still very much with the group getting our assignments, getting a whole lot of. The main concern we had was who are we going to be with?

[Assistant] OK, so essentially you weren't ready to reach out.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Later, yes, after we always made it a point to stay at the hotel.

[Assistant] What was your initial response reaction to being in Colombia? I assume you tried to start speaking Spanish.

[User] We were still then, we were still very much with the group getting our assignments, getting a whole lot of. The main concern we had was who are we going to be with?

[Assistant] OK, so essentially you weren't ready to reach out.

[User] There was very little contact, if at all.

[Assistant] You got your assignment.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were still then, we were still very much with the group getting our assignments, getting a whole lot of. The main concern we had was who are we going to be with?

[Assistant] OK, so essentially you weren't ready to reach out.

[User] There was very little contact, if at all.

[Assistant] You got your assignment.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And with someone?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was very little contact, if at all.

[Assistant] You got your assignment.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And with someone?

[User] Yeah. What happened, and this is one of those things that I didn't understand at the time. My maiden name is Powhida and I'm not Native American, I'm Slovak. But I was assigned to one of the women in the group who was Native American, who was from the Taos Pueblo as a matter of fact. A brilliant, funny woman, and we were good friends and I just assumed we were assigned luck of the draw. There was another woman whose last name was Jackson, and she was assigned to the African American woman in the group.

[Assistant]
There was only one African American woman?

Yes. Mm hmm. And the woman who was Jackson was very, very funny, but really high maintenance. She didn't want to really be in Peace Corps. She was very, she was high maintenance. And so that was the setup. And then they said if there were any complaints, they would change our assignments. Next day, there was a reassignment and I got Jackson and my friend, the Native American, got the African American woman. And those two women had nothing in common, and they were both very, very uncomfortable with that assignment.

And there wasn't a re-reassignment.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And with someone?

[User] Yeah. What happened, and this is one of those things that I didn't understand at the time. My maiden name is Powhida and I'm not Native American, I'm Slovak. But I was assigned to one of the women in the group who was Native American, who was from the Taos Pueblo as a matter of fact. A brilliant, funny woman, and we were good friends and I just assumed we were assigned luck of the draw. There was another woman whose last name was Jackson, and she was assigned to the African American woman in the group.

[Assistant]
There was only one African American woman?

Yes. Mm hmm. And the woman who was Jackson was very, very funny, but really high maintenance. She didn't want to really be in Peace Corps. She was very, she was high maintenance. And so that was the setup. And then they said if there were any complaints, they would change our assignments. Next day, there was a reassignment and I got Jackson and my friend, the Native American, got the African American woman. And those two women had nothing in common, and they were both very, very uncomfortable with that assignment.

And there wasn't a re-reassignment.

[User] No, no. And years later, my friend, the Native American. I said, I remember saying to her, Anne, do you think they assigned us together initially because?

[Assistant] They thought you were Native American.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. What happened, and this is one of those things that I didn't understand at the time. My maiden name is Powhida and I'm not Native American, I'm Slovak. But I was assigned to one of the women in the group who was Native American, who was from the Taos Pueblo as a matter of fact. A brilliant, funny woman, and we were good friends and I just assumed we were assigned luck of the draw. There was another woman whose last name was Jackson, and she was assigned to the African American woman in the group.

[Assistant]
There was only one African American woman?

Yes. Mm hmm. And the woman who was Jackson was very, very funny, but really high maintenance. She didn't want to really be in Peace Corps. She was very, she was high maintenance. And so that was the setup. And then they said if there were any complaints, they would change our assignments. Next day, there was a reassignment and I got Jackson and my friend, the Native American, got the African American woman. And those two women had nothing in common, and they were both very, very uncomfortable with that assignment.

And there wasn't a re-reassignment.

[User] No, no. And years later, my friend, the Native American. I said, I remember saying to her, Anne, do you think they assigned us together initially because?

[Assistant] They thought you were Native American.

[User] And she said, you don't get it, do you? You don't understand. Of course they did. You know?

[Assistant] Yeah. Now during your stay at the Hotel San Francisco, there was Peace Corps Colombia staff? What was your reaction to them and what was their role?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. And years later, my friend, the Native American. I said, I remember saying to her, Anne, do you think they assigned us together initially because?

[Assistant] They thought you were Native American.

[User] And she said, you don't get it, do you? You don't understand. Of course they did. You know?

[Assistant] Yeah. Now during your stay at the Hotel San Francisco, there was Peace Corps Colombia staff? What was your reaction to them and what was their role?

[User] Again, it was Sheldon and I think he was. And then there was like a secretary. And then I think the ambassador talked to us and the medical doctor. And the medical doctor, Dr. King, he was kind of like real important, you know, and they just talked to us very briefly.

[Assistant] Was there a regional setup where there'd be regional directors or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And she said, you don't get it, do you? You don't understand. Of course they did. You know?

[Assistant] Yeah. Now during your stay at the Hotel San Francisco, there was Peace Corps Colombia staff? What was your reaction to them and what was their role?

[User] Again, it was Sheldon and I think he was. And then there was like a secretary. And then I think the ambassador talked to us and the medical doctor. And the medical doctor, Dr. King, he was kind of like real important, you know, and they just talked to us very briefly.

[Assistant] Was there a regional setup where there'd be regional directors or?

[User] They were just getting, we, my project director, a woman social worker, came down like three or four months after we did. And they went to a regional system about two months after we were there.

[Assistant] But she was supposed to be in charge of all health ed though?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Again, it was Sheldon and I think he was. And then there was like a secretary. And then I think the ambassador talked to us and the medical doctor. And the medical doctor, Dr. King, he was kind of like real important, you know, and they just talked to us very briefly.

[Assistant] Was there a regional setup where there'd be regional directors or?

[User] They were just getting, we, my project director, a woman social worker, came down like three or four months after we did. And they went to a regional system about two months after we were there.

[Assistant] But she was supposed to be in charge of all health ed though?

[User] Right. She wasn't there.

[Assistant] Do you have any idea when you arrived, approximately how many volunteers were in-country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were just getting, we, my project director, a woman social worker, came down like three or four months after we did. And they went to a regional system about two months after we were there.

[Assistant] But she was supposed to be in charge of all health ed though?

[User] Right. She wasn't there.

[Assistant] Do you have any idea when you arrived, approximately how many volunteers were in-country?

[User] Between three and five hundred.

[Assistant] Wow, OK. So it was a big.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. She wasn't there.

[Assistant] Do you have any idea when you arrived, approximately how many volunteers were in-country?

[User] Between three and five hundred.

[Assistant] Wow, OK. So it was a big.

[User] And the Peace Corps leaders were the infrastructure. That was our, that was our contact, the Peace Corps leader.

[Assistant] Volunteers who were designated as leaders?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Between three and five hundred.

[Assistant] Wow, OK. So it was a big.

[User] And the Peace Corps leaders were the infrastructure. That was our, that was our contact, the Peace Corps leader.

[Assistant] Volunteers who were designated as leaders?

[User] Third year volunteers. They were supposed to have completed successfully. And they were third year.

[Assistant] But no one had been a woman's health ed volunteer.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the Peace Corps leaders were the infrastructure. That was our, that was our contact, the Peace Corps leader.

[Assistant] Volunteers who were designated as leaders?

[User] Third year volunteers. They were supposed to have completed successfully. And they were third year.

[Assistant] But no one had been a woman's health ed volunteer.

[User] No.

[Assistant] So who was your leader?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Third year volunteers. They were supposed to have completed successfully. And they were third year.

[Assistant] But no one had been a woman's health ed volunteer.

[User] No.

[Assistant] So who was your leader?

[User] For the project? We didn't have a leader when we first got down there.

[Assistant] So you're finally, you and Jackson, are given your walking papers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] So who was your leader?

[User] For the project? We didn't have a leader when we first got down there.

[Assistant] So you're finally, you and Jackson, are given your walking papers.

[User] Yeah. Exactly.

[Assistant] Exactly what was it, I mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] For the project? We didn't have a leader when we first got down there.

[Assistant] So you're finally, you and Jackson, are given your walking papers.

[User] Yeah. Exactly.

[Assistant] Exactly what was it, I mean?

[User] We were assigned. We got a site description and it was a, we had a wonderful assignment. We were on the Pan-Am Highway. We were in southern Colombia and we were at about 7,500 feet. So the weather was beautiful.

[Assistant] Who had prepared the site descriptions?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Exactly.

[Assistant] Exactly what was it, I mean?

[User] We were assigned. We got a site description and it was a, we had a wonderful assignment. We were on the Pan-Am Highway. We were in southern Colombia and we were at about 7,500 feet. So the weather was beautiful.

[Assistant] Who had prepared the site descriptions?

[User] That's the other thing. There were male volunteers in the area and they knew that we were the first women volunteers to go into the campo. And so evidently male volunteers had all done site reports trying to get the female volunteers in and afterwards the guys in our area would say, you know, with chagrin, and we won, you know, because yeah, we had some trouble initially.

[Assistant] So there's some creative descriptions.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were assigned. We got a site description and it was a, we had a wonderful assignment. We were on the Pan-Am Highway. We were in southern Colombia and we were at about 7,500 feet. So the weather was beautiful.

[Assistant] Who had prepared the site descriptions?

[User] That's the other thing. There were male volunteers in the area and they knew that we were the first women volunteers to go into the campo. And so evidently male volunteers had all done site reports trying to get the female volunteers in and afterwards the guys in our area would say, you know, with chagrin, and we won, you know, because yeah, we had some trouble initially.

[Assistant] So there's some creative descriptions.

[User] Exactly, exactly. And we were anticipated. Yeah, that was.

[Assistant] What's Jackson's first name?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's the other thing. There were male volunteers in the area and they knew that we were the first women volunteers to go into the campo. And so evidently male volunteers had all done site reports trying to get the female volunteers in and afterwards the guys in our area would say, you know, with chagrin, and we won, you know, because yeah, we had some trouble initially.

[Assistant] So there's some creative descriptions.

[User] Exactly, exactly. And we were anticipated. Yeah, that was.

[Assistant] What's Jackson's first name?

[User] Claudine.

[Assistant] So you and Claudine now, how did you get from Bogota to? Tell me again where you were assigned?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly, exactly. And we were anticipated. Yeah, that was.

[Assistant] What's Jackson's first name?

[User] Claudine.

[Assistant] So you and Claudine now, how did you get from Bogota to? Tell me again where you were assigned?

[User] We were assigned Piendamó, Cauca, Colombia, which was on the Pan-Am and it was south of Cali. We flew to Cali and our Peace Corps leader was supposed to meet us. Jim, and I think it was Jim Corbett, Jim. And he was, nobody was here. And that's when we asked. It was a Saturday. It was a Saturday. And we didn't know what to do, you know, and Claudine had already decided she was ready to go. Well, just a running commentary on how much she did not like this. But it was more, it was very funny. It was kind of like if you were in a World War II movie where the guy with the cigarette in his mouth was saying, you know, this sucks. That was Claudine. And she was funny. She was really, really funny.

[Assistant] Where's she from?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, but it was just a cement block. You know, running water.

[Assistant] Jim has disappeared.

[User] Well, down the Pan-Am with his girlfriend. But now there were the male volunteers that lived out of the little village outside of Piendamó were there. And so we were not. And they introduced us to the priest and to the doctor, and the doctor said we were to be assigned. He was to be our Colombian supervisor.

[Assistant] How did he know that?

[User] That was because the program was coordinated with Salud Publica in Colombia. And so he had had to acquiesce to the volunteers coming. He knew we were coming. And so we were assigned to him. He was our Colombian.

[Assistant] So some legwork had been done.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, down the Pan-Am with his girlfriend. But now there were the male volunteers that lived out of the little village outside of Piendamó were there. And so we were not. And they introduced us to the priest and to the doctor, and the doctor said we were to be assigned. He was to be our Colombian supervisor.

[Assistant] How did he know that?

[User] That was because the program was coordinated with Salud Publica in Colombia. And so he had had to acquiesce to the volunteers coming. He knew we were coming. And so we were assigned to him. He was our Colombian.

[Assistant] So some legwork had been done.

[User] Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No, I'm sorry if it sounds. I should have been more. Yeah. And so the doctor told us he didn't want to see us for a month. He wanted us to get organized and get a place to live and get accustomed. And then he would.

[Assistant] What was the deal with money? Did they just give you packs of money or did you have?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was because the program was coordinated with Salud Publica in Colombia. And so he had had to acquiesce to the volunteers coming. He knew we were coming. And so we were assigned to him. He was our Colombian.

[Assistant] So some legwork had been done.

[User] Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No, I'm sorry if it sounds. I should have been more. Yeah. And so the doctor told us he didn't want to see us for a month. He wanted us to get organized and get a place to live and get accustomed. And then he would.

[Assistant] What was the deal with money? Did they just give you packs of money or did you have?

[User] We were going to be paid once a month and the male volunteers took us into. They were they were really the ones who kind of got us situated and I still am in communication with one of them. They were just great.

[Assistant] And you really had.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No, I'm sorry if it sounds. I should have been more. Yeah. And so the doctor told us he didn't want to see us for a month. He wanted us to get organized and get a place to live and get accustomed. And then he would.

[Assistant] What was the deal with money? Did they just give you packs of money or did you have?

[User] We were going to be paid once a month and the male volunteers took us into. They were they were really the ones who kind of got us situated and I still am in communication with one of them. They were just great.

[Assistant] And you really had.

[User] Yeah, we were not. But again, all of this is Peace Corps. It's not, you know, it's not, we're not really doing very much interaction at all with Colombians.

[Assistant] Did they help you and Claudine find a place to stay?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were going to be paid once a month and the male volunteers took us into. They were they were really the ones who kind of got us situated and I still am in communication with one of them. They were just great.

[Assistant] And you really had.

[User] Yeah, we were not. But again, all of this is Peace Corps. It's not, you know, it's not, we're not really doing very much interaction at all with Colombians.

[Assistant] Did they help you and Claudine find a place to stay?

[User] Yes, they did. But we stayed at the hotel because the place where we were going to move in wasn't quite ready. And one of the things that they did then, the two male volunteers, is that they put barricades on the windows and the doors so that you could close the doors at night and then put a bar down so that you would really be safe. And the issue was not our safety as much as belongings, that there had been things stolen.

[Assistant] What were the two? What had the two volunteers been doing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we were not. But again, all of this is Peace Corps. It's not, you know, it's not, we're not really doing very much interaction at all with Colombians.

[Assistant] Did they help you and Claudine find a place to stay?

[User] Yes, they did. But we stayed at the hotel because the place where we were going to move in wasn't quite ready. And one of the things that they did then, the two male volunteers, is that they put barricades on the windows and the doors so that you could close the doors at night and then put a bar down so that you would really be safe. And the issue was not our safety as much as belongings, that there had been things stolen.

[Assistant] What were the two? What had the two volunteers been doing?

[User] They were both. One was community development, and he had been there about a year. The other was in a group called Colombia XIII, and he was just a month ahead of us. And originally, the plan was that at the time, our site description was there were going to be two women volunteers and a male volunteer assigned to clinics. And the male volunteer was like going to build the clinic or help build the clinic. And it's just crazy stuff. And Colombia XIII had both men and women in it, and we were supposed to be the third counterpart to that, and that didn't last very long, that particular setup. But we were assigned to the clinic.

[Assistant] So you were at the hotel staying. Do you recall your initial impression of, you know, now you're really in the Peace Corps? You're there, this is where you're going to be. What were you doing about food, about laundry?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This was Piendamó. This is when we go back to our site. And so many people and the poverty, even though at that time we weren't really talking to people, it was just physically it was just overwhelming. And yet at the same time, it was kind of like, well, we'll just, how are we going to, what are we going to do to get this cleaned up and straightened, you know, that kind of thing?

[Assistant] What did you do?

[User] Initially not very much. It was. And we didn't know how to relate to people. We had met the doctor and as I say, he said come back in a month. And it was the town was 3,000 people, which was, and we, of course, were very visible. Everybody was watching us all the time. We drank Pepsis. The kids would come up and we would send them out to buy us pineapple. And we were paying three dollars for pineapple, you know, and we each had. We each smoked Pall Malls and we each brought down a carton or two, whatever you were allowed to. And we were counting Pall Malls and we didn't know what to do. We didn't know what to do. We didn't know where to begin. And we didn't know. And we had kind of developed this. We were making fun of Peace Corps. I mean, we were, you know, covered, you know, we just didn't know where to begin.

[Assistant] On any given day during this time, what would you do? Where would you have breakfast?

[User] We would have breakfast at the hotel, but outside there was, you know.

[Assistant] And did you decide that today we're going to try to do this?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We would have breakfast at the hotel, but outside there was, you know.

[Assistant] And did you decide that today we're going to try to do this?

[User] We would, yes. And we wouldn't get anyplace.

[Assistant] Why not?

[User] Well, there was, because we didn't. We were supposed to get settled and so we were waiting for. We had excuses not to do stuff and we kept wanting to go into town, into the capital city, which we did. We set up bank accounts so that we would get our money.

[Assistant] How did you get to the capital city?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We would, yes. And we wouldn't get anyplace.

[Assistant] Why not?

[User] Well, there was, because we didn't. We were supposed to get settled and so we were waiting for. We had excuses not to do stuff and we kept wanting to go into town, into the capital city, which we did. We set up bank accounts so that we would get our money.

[Assistant] How did you get to the capital city?

[User] By bus. Well, now this is, that's real good. There was what they called, um, and I can't roll my, I can't trill my Rs, I never could. But an autoferrial, which was kind of like a light rail that would go from Piendamó down to the capital, and it was about an hour's drive. But there were also busses that came through like every 10 or 20 minutes. And we initially would ride the train because we just, the idea of getting on those busses with the chickens and, you know. And we were spending money, we had a housing furnishing allowance and we were spending, we weren't, because things are so much cheaper. We didn't realize we weren't. We were just, we were not doing well, OK, we were just not spending money appropriately. We were eating, you know, we were staying at the Monasterio and.

[Assistant] That's when you go into the capital?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, there was, because we didn't. We were supposed to get settled and so we were waiting for. We had excuses not to do stuff and we kept wanting to go into town, into the capital city, which we did. We set up bank accounts so that we would get our money.

[Assistant] How did you get to the capital city?

[User] By bus. Well, now this is, that's real good. There was what they called, um, and I can't roll my, I can't trill my Rs, I never could. But an autoferrial, which was kind of like a light rail that would go from Piendamó down to the capital, and it was about an hour's drive. But there were also busses that came through like every 10 or 20 minutes. And we initially would ride the train because we just, the idea of getting on those busses with the chickens and, you know. And we were spending money, we had a housing furnishing allowance and we were spending, we weren't, because things are so much cheaper. We didn't realize we weren't. We were just, we were not doing well, OK, we were just not spending money appropriately. We were eating, you know, we were staying at the Monasterio and.

[Assistant] That's when you go into the capital?

[User] Yeah. And so it was only an hour to get to the capital. So we were in the capital too much.

[Assistant] Ah, OK. This is all during the first?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] By bus. Well, now this is, that's real good. There was what they called, um, and I can't roll my, I can't trill my Rs, I never could. But an autoferrial, which was kind of like a light rail that would go from Piendamó down to the capital, and it was about an hour's drive. But there were also busses that came through like every 10 or 20 minutes. And we initially would ride the train because we just, the idea of getting on those busses with the chickens and, you know. And we were spending money, we had a housing furnishing allowance and we were spending, we weren't, because things are so much cheaper. We didn't realize we weren't. We were just, we were not doing well, OK, we were just not spending money appropriately. We were eating, you know, we were staying at the Monasterio and.

[Assistant] That's when you go into the capital?

[User] Yeah. And so it was only an hour to get to the capital. So we were in the capital too much.

[Assistant] Ah, OK. This is all during the first?

[User] Two or three weeks, OK? And then when we started riding the bus. That's when we realize we're spending too much money and we had to get. We did get the house that we were going to move into.

[Assistant] Did you get it or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Two or three weeks, OK? And then when we started riding the bus. That's when we realize we're spending too much money and we had to get. We did get the house that we were going to move into.

[Assistant] Did you get it or?

[User] The volunteers helped us. The male volunteers helped us do everything. And the four of us talked all the time, you know, we were.

[Assistant] In English?

[User] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And we had beds made because we didn't, you know, didn't have furniture. Well, we had army cots initially. And we didn't have beds made. We had something made. And the thing I remember is that the cabinet maker in the town was, he basically made coffins and there would be coffins in front of the shop. And he was the one that. And I forget what it was he made for us, if we had the army cots and either it was a table or something. The coffee maker, the coffin maker. But we were just, we were. And it was like we were invisible. We thought that people couldn't see us because we weren't that. Yeah. And I felt real guilty. And I think Claudine did too. But we laughed. Everything was a joke, and then it became black humor, you know, and but we were not. I mean, like, we weren't doing anything inappropriate, but we were just not getting things done. And then I was going to say, then the assassination.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. During this time, did you think to yourself, I mean, this is nonsense, I might as well go home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The volunteers helped us. The male volunteers helped us do everything. And the four of us talked all the time, you know, we were.

[Assistant] In English?

[User] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And we had beds made because we didn't, you know, didn't have furniture. Well, we had army cots initially. And we didn't have beds made. We had something made. And the thing I remember is that the cabinet maker in the town was, he basically made coffins and there would be coffins in front of the shop. And he was the one that. And I forget what it was he made for us, if we had the army cots and either it was a table or something. The coffee maker, the coffin maker. But we were just, we were. And it was like we were invisible. We thought that people couldn't see us because we weren't that. Yeah. And I felt real guilty. And I think Claudine did too. But we laughed. Everything was a joke, and then it became black humor, you know, and but we were not. I mean, like, we weren't doing anything inappropriate, but we were just not getting things done. And then I was going to say, then the assassination.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. During this time, did you think to yourself, I mean, this is nonsense, I might as well go home?

[User] Never.

[Assistant] OK, how about Claudine?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And we had beds made because we didn't, you know, didn't have furniture. Well, we had army cots initially. And we didn't have beds made. We had something made. And the thing I remember is that the cabinet maker in the town was, he basically made coffins and there would be coffins in front of the shop. And he was the one that. And I forget what it was he made for us, if we had the army cots and either it was a table or something. The coffee maker, the coffin maker. But we were just, we were. And it was like we were invisible. We thought that people couldn't see us because we weren't that. Yeah. And I felt real guilty. And I think Claudine did too. But we laughed. Everything was a joke, and then it became black humor, you know, and but we were not. I mean, like, we weren't doing anything inappropriate, but we were just not getting things done. And then I was going to say, then the assassination.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. During this time, did you think to yourself, I mean, this is nonsense, I might as well go home?

[User] Never.

[Assistant] OK, how about Claudine?

[User] Wanted to go home every day.

[Assistant] But that was her stance?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Never.

[Assistant] OK, how about Claudine?

[User] Wanted to go home every day.

[Assistant] But that was her stance?

[User] Yeah, that was. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Were you writing home at this time? Could you call home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Wanted to go home every day.

[Assistant] But that was her stance?

[User] Yeah, that was. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Were you writing home at this time? Could you call home?

[User] Oh no, no, no. I don't remember if I was, we were. We were trying to write to other volunteers, you know, in Colombia, in our group.

[Assistant] Did you have a posting list where you knew?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, that was. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Were you writing home at this time? Could you call home?

[User] Oh no, no, no. I don't remember if I was, we were. We were trying to write to other volunteers, you know, in Colombia, in our group.

[Assistant] Did you have a posting list where you knew?

[User] I think that in those days it was real simple just to say Cuerpo de Paz and the name of the site in Colombia. And that, you know, but mail from the States was not reliable. Mail in country was not reliable.

[Assistant] So initially, you're really sort of very much at loose ends.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh no, no, no. I don't remember if I was, we were. We were trying to write to other volunteers, you know, in Colombia, in our group.

[Assistant] Did you have a posting list where you knew?

[User] I think that in those days it was real simple just to say Cuerpo de Paz and the name of the site in Colombia. And that, you know, but mail from the States was not reliable. Mail in country was not reliable.

[Assistant] So initially, you're really sort of very much at loose ends.

[User] Yes, that's kind.

[Assistant] Now, at the same time, Kennedy was assassinated.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think that in those days it was real simple just to say Cuerpo de Paz and the name of the site in Colombia. And that, you know, but mail from the States was not reliable. Mail in country was not reliable.

[Assistant] So initially, you're really sort of very much at loose ends.

[User] Yes, that's kind.

[Assistant] Now, at the same time, Kennedy was assassinated.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] How did you first hear?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, that's kind.

[Assistant] Now, at the same time, Kennedy was assassinated.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] How did you first hear?

[User] We were sitting, Friday afternoon, we were sitting on the patio in front of the hotel smoking cigarettes.

[Assistant] In this village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were sitting, Friday afternoon, we were sitting on the patio in front of the hotel smoking cigarettes.

[Assistant] In this village?

[User] In the village, and it was Claudine's birthday. Or it was going to be her birthday and we were going into the capital that weekend to celebrate her birthday. And the kids in town all had transistor radios, and the kids were called Coca-Colas because they were just beginning to develop a teenage kind of thing. And so the Coca-Colas. And they came and they said to us, Castro killed Kennedy, Castro se mató a Kennedy. Exactly. And we couldn't figure out what they were saying. And my father had given me a shortwave radio to take with me, and I had it and I went in and got it and we turned on the radio and were able pretty quickly to get radio. We got, there's a big Christian station in Quito, and it announced that Kennedy had been shot in Dallas. And then it said an update in a half hour. And then we got something called New York Worldwide. And they had the mikes open and so we could hear them talking, and we heard that he had been. We were listening to that before he'd been declared dead. So it was real quick.

[Assistant] Yeah. OK.

[User] And then before it faded out, the last thing we heard was that he had been declared dead. And that Johnson had been seen going into the hospital with his hand over his heart and we thought he'd had a heart attack. And our reaction, and again, was this black humor stuff that we spent a lot of time trying to say Castro didn't kill him, they didn't know who, you know. And my friend, and she's a wonderful woman, and she said, you know, now they're going to close the bars, just our luck. Then she said, well, there goes our career, because our whole, you know, part of our justification had been, well, we'll just link on to this charismatic family. And she said, there goes the career.

[Assistant] So you're both 22?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Twenty two. Yeah, she was going to be 22. We didn't cry. And we did not express any fear about what was happening. And what we found out later was that the people in our village were very suspicious of us, they found our reaction was not OK. I was told a year later that there were people in the village who wanted to kill us because this is what the thinking was. First of all, we had not really, we had connected with the mayor, with the doctor and the priest, and we had kind of had their protection, if you will.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] But we had really not connected with anybody else in that village. And people in Colombia, the Bogotasso, there had been an assassination in '48 in Colombia that had thrown the country into the first episode of incredible internal violence. And we were not concerned for our families. They thought that was very suspicious. We didn't cry, and there were those who assumed that Castro was taking over the United States and that we were part of some kind of advanced guard that had been. And it sounds funny now and at that, I remember. And then there was a blackout in Piendamó, which happened a lot. And because it was Claudine's birthday, again, the male volunteers are coming down to celebrate. And they came into town on motorcycles and, yeah, and we went with them into the capital city and the priest told everybody that we needed to be with our compatriots and that's why we were going. And evidently we did not. I mean, people were very. Other women in our group were immediately embraced by their communities where, you know.

[Assistant] You had made virtually no contact at that point.

[User] Exactly, exactly.

[Assistant] And so now I'm curious is, going ahead, you know, what happened, I mean, how did you phase into?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But we had really not connected with anybody else in that village. And people in Colombia, the Bogotasso, there had been an assassination in '48 in Colombia that had thrown the country into the first episode of incredible internal violence. And we were not concerned for our families. They thought that was very suspicious. We didn't cry, and there were those who assumed that Castro was taking over the United States and that we were part of some kind of advanced guard that had been. And it sounds funny now and at that, I remember. And then there was a blackout in Piendamó, which happened a lot. And because it was Claudine's birthday, again, the male volunteers are coming down to celebrate. And they came into town on motorcycles and, yeah, and we went with them into the capital city and the priest told everybody that we needed to be with our compatriots and that's why we were going. And evidently we did not. I mean, people were very. Other women in our group were immediately embraced by their communities where, you know.

[Assistant] You had made virtually no contact at that point.

[User] Exactly, exactly.

[Assistant] And so now I'm curious is, going ahead, you know, what happened, I mean, how did you phase into?

[User] Well, because we kept. What happened was that our perception of what was going on in the United States and what we said to people was not to be afraid, the country is not going to riot, you know, that kind of stuff was then was then confirmed, by the way the people in the United States conducted themselves and the fact that that Jacqueline Kennedy had her children in public. You know, just reaffirmed that our reaction was normal and the country, our America, did not go into chaos. So that helped. And then.

[Assistant] You know, I was thinking more about being a Peace Corps volunteer.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly, exactly.

[Assistant] And so now I'm curious is, going ahead, you know, what happened, I mean, how did you phase into?

[User] Well, because we kept. What happened was that our perception of what was going on in the United States and what we said to people was not to be afraid, the country is not going to riot, you know, that kind of stuff was then was then confirmed, by the way the people in the United States conducted themselves and the fact that that Jacqueline Kennedy had her children in public. You know, just reaffirmed that our reaction was normal and the country, our America, did not go into chaos. So that helped. And then.

[Assistant] You know, I was thinking more about being a Peace Corps volunteer.

[User] Because then we after like about a week or 10 days, then because we were volunteers, because we began to represent Kennedy, then people reached out to us. And I think that that helped us become into the community.

[Assistant] So the months must have been over and you went back to the doctor?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, because we kept. What happened was that our perception of what was going on in the United States and what we said to people was not to be afraid, the country is not going to riot, you know, that kind of stuff was then was then confirmed, by the way the people in the United States conducted themselves and the fact that that Jacqueline Kennedy had her children in public. You know, just reaffirmed that our reaction was normal and the country, our America, did not go into chaos. So that helped. And then.

[Assistant] You know, I was thinking more about being a Peace Corps volunteer.

[User] Because then we after like about a week or 10 days, then because we were volunteers, because we began to represent Kennedy, then people reached out to us. And I think that that helped us become into the community.

[Assistant] So the months must have been over and you went back to the doctor?

[User] Right, right.

[Assistant] What happened at that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because then we after like about a week or 10 days, then because we were volunteers, because we began to represent Kennedy, then people reached out to us. And I think that that helped us become into the community.

[Assistant] So the months must have been over and you went back to the doctor?

[User] Right, right.

[Assistant] What happened at that time?

[User] He wanted us to do it. First of all, he had.

[Assistant] You really hadn't accomplished anything as far as learning about the community.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, right.

[Assistant] What happened at that time?

[User] He wanted us to do it. First of all, he had.

[Assistant] You really hadn't accomplished anything as far as learning about the community.

[User] Oh no. No.

[Assistant] But you go back anyway.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He wanted us to do it. First of all, he had.

[Assistant] You really hadn't accomplished anything as far as learning about the community.

[User] Oh no. No.

[Assistant] But you go back anyway.

[User] Right. And it's like, you know, it was like half a block away. We were not, you know, we were not. And I think that he was disappointed that he was a young doctor and he was committed to the village. I think he was disappointed that we were not more confident that, you know, but he had CARE food and he wanted us to come up with a way of distributing the food in the village. And we did not do that. And I can't remember where our contact was, but it was like Peace Corps volunteers don't distribute food, you don't decide who gets the food. So we couldn't do that. But what he did want us to do and what we did do and which was consistent with community development theory and certainly health education, is that we did a survey of the community and we visited homes and we gathered data on who was living there.

[Assistant] That's you and Claudine?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh no. No.

[Assistant] But you go back anyway.

[User] Right. And it's like, you know, it was like half a block away. We were not, you know, we were not. And I think that he was disappointed that he was a young doctor and he was committed to the village. I think he was disappointed that we were not more confident that, you know, but he had CARE food and he wanted us to come up with a way of distributing the food in the village. And we did not do that. And I can't remember where our contact was, but it was like Peace Corps volunteers don't distribute food, you don't decide who gets the food. So we couldn't do that. But what he did want us to do and what we did do and which was consistent with community development theory and certainly health education, is that we did a survey of the community and we visited homes and we gathered data on who was living there.

[Assistant] That's you and Claudine?

[User] Claudine and I, yeah.

[Assistant] With no official sanction to do so?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And it's like, you know, it was like half a block away. We were not, you know, we were not. And I think that he was disappointed that he was a young doctor and he was committed to the village. I think he was disappointed that we were not more confident that, you know, but he had CARE food and he wanted us to come up with a way of distributing the food in the village. And we did not do that. And I can't remember where our contact was, but it was like Peace Corps volunteers don't distribute food, you don't decide who gets the food. So we couldn't do that. But what he did want us to do and what we did do and which was consistent with community development theory and certainly health education, is that we did a survey of the community and we visited homes and we gathered data on who was living there.

[Assistant] That's you and Claudine?

[User] Claudine and I, yeah.

[Assistant] With no official sanction to do so?

[User] Other than the doctor, no. The doctor.

[Assistant] How can you walk into a house and say, we want to know how many people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, no. Well, we knocked on the door and we introduced ourselves.

[Assistant] As?

[User] As Peace Corps volunteers. Yes, Cuerpo de Paz. And yeah, we were known, you know?

[Assistant] Doing what?

[User] We were doing a survey of what the people needed.

[Assistant] And you would say this to the family?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] As Peace Corps volunteers. Yes, Cuerpo de Paz. And yeah, we were known, you know?

[Assistant] Doing what?

[User] We were doing a survey of what the people needed.

[Assistant] And you would say this to the family?

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] And they didn't throw you out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were doing a survey of what the people needed.

[Assistant] And you would say this to the family?

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] And they didn't throw you out?

[User] No, no. And but by that time, everybody had a picture of, you know, torn from Life magazine or something of John Kennedy and Pope John the 23rd. And it was Los Dos Juans. And we were welcomed then or supported in that community because we were Peace Corps volunteers and because we were associated with Kennedy. That was absolutely, I mean, that's why I say that that made. They changed their attitude towards us based on their feeling about Kennedy. And we were the beneficiaries.

[Assistant] Did the doctor try to have a counterpart to work with you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] And they didn't throw you out?

[User] No, no. And but by that time, everybody had a picture of, you know, torn from Life magazine or something of John Kennedy and Pope John the 23rd. And it was Los Dos Juans. And we were welcomed then or supported in that community because we were Peace Corps volunteers and because we were associated with Kennedy. That was absolutely, I mean, that's why I say that that made. They changed their attitude towards us based on their feeling about Kennedy. And we were the beneficiaries.

[Assistant] Did the doctor try to have a counterpart to work with you?

[User] There was a practical nurse at the at the clinic and we would help her, you know, but.

[Assistant] To go out and do the survey?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. And but by that time, everybody had a picture of, you know, torn from Life magazine or something of John Kennedy and Pope John the 23rd. And it was Los Dos Juans. And we were welcomed then or supported in that community because we were Peace Corps volunteers and because we were associated with Kennedy. That was absolutely, I mean, that's why I say that that made. They changed their attitude towards us based on their feeling about Kennedy. And we were the beneficiaries.

[Assistant] Did the doctor try to have a counterpart to work with you?

[User] There was a practical nurse at the at the clinic and we would help her, you know, but.

[Assistant] To go out and do the survey?

[User] We did not, no, we did the surveys on our own.

[Assistant] And how did you collect the data?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We did not, no, we did the surveys on our own.

[Assistant] And how did you collect the data?

[User] We had, the priest in town had a ditto machine and mimeograph. It wasn't ditto, it was mimeograph. And he mimeographed out these surveys and we went and collected information and we asked everybody over and over. And what I remember is that women, when we would say how many children do you have, they would always tell us how many children they had living and how many children they had dead.

[Assistant] Right, right.

[User] And then when we say, what do you want? They wanted to keep their children alive and the main, what they needed most of all were medicines. They needed drugs that they just did not have. So we did identify a felt need in the community.

[Assistant] How long did the survey go on?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had, the priest in town had a ditto machine and mimeograph. It wasn't ditto, it was mimeograph. And he mimeographed out these surveys and we went and collected information and we asked everybody over and over. And what I remember is that women, when we would say how many children do you have, they would always tell us how many children they had living and how many children they had dead.

[Assistant] Right, right.

[User] And then when we say, what do you want? They wanted to keep their children alive and the main, what they needed most of all were medicines. They needed drugs that they just did not have. So we did identify a felt need in the community.

[Assistant] How long did the survey go on?

[User] Probably in probably mid January. So we had come in in October, November, this was the end of November. We started sometime in December. And then so we were on track. I mean, that was.

[Assistant] You're doing all this under the direction of the doctor?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then when we say, what do you want? They wanted to keep their children alive and the main, what they needed most of all were medicines. They needed drugs that they just did not have. So we did identify a felt need in the community.

[Assistant] How long did the survey go on?

[User] Probably in probably mid January. So we had come in in October, November, this was the end of November. We started sometime in December. And then so we were on track. I mean, that was.

[Assistant] You're doing all this under the direction of the doctor?

[User] Absolutely.

[Assistant] Who works at a government clinic.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably in probably mid January. So we had come in in October, November, this was the end of November. We started sometime in December. And then so we were on track. I mean, that was.

[Assistant] You're doing all this under the direction of the doctor?

[User] Absolutely.

[Assistant] Who works at a government clinic.

[User] Right. That had nothing. Nothing.

[Assistant] Did he hope that you might be the hope for him to go and get someone to provide medicine and stuff?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Absolutely.

[Assistant] Who works at a government clinic.

[User] Right. That had nothing. Nothing.

[Assistant] Did he hope that you might be the hope for him to go and get someone to provide medicine and stuff?

[User] Yeah, we because that then became our first goal, how do we get drugs? And we came up with the idea of having a drug co-op.

[Assistant] Yeah. In doing the survey, had you identified the illnesses that polled for the particular drugs? I mean, how sophisticated was it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. That had nothing. Nothing.

[Assistant] Did he hope that you might be the hope for him to go and get someone to provide medicine and stuff?

[User] Yeah, we because that then became our first goal, how do we get drugs? And we came up with the idea of having a drug co-op.

[Assistant] Yeah. In doing the survey, had you identified the illnesses that polled for the particular drugs? I mean, how sophisticated was it?

[User] It was not very sophisticated at all, but children were dying from fever and he didn't even have aspirin. Dysentery. And you know, there was, he didn't have anything to intervene.

[Assistant] And the people you surveyed would say that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we because that then became our first goal, how do we get drugs? And we came up with the idea of having a drug co-op.

[Assistant] Yeah. In doing the survey, had you identified the illnesses that polled for the particular drugs? I mean, how sophisticated was it?

[User] It was not very sophisticated at all, but children were dying from fever and he didn't even have aspirin. Dysentery. And you know, there was, he didn't have anything to intervene.

[Assistant] And the people you surveyed would say that?

[User] That they needed drugs to keep the, for the babies and for the children.

[Assistant] Or that a baby had died from a fever?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was not very sophisticated at all, but children were dying from fever and he didn't even have aspirin. Dysentery. And you know, there was, he didn't have anything to intervene.

[Assistant] And the people you surveyed would say that?

[User] That they needed drugs to keep the, for the babies and for the children.

[Assistant] Or that a baby had died from a fever?

[User] Oh yeah. Oh, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And the children were dying from dysentery. A lot of whooping cough.

[Assistant] And while you're doing the survey, during this time, how many hours a day? How many days a week did you put into it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That they needed drugs to keep the, for the babies and for the children.

[Assistant] Or that a baby had died from a fever?

[User] Oh yeah. Oh, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And the children were dying from dysentery. A lot of whooping cough.

[Assistant] And while you're doing the survey, during this time, how many hours a day? How many days a week did you put into it?

[User] We would go out and maybe do it two or three hours a day. Not very much. It was hard work. It was hard work because our Spanish wasn't that good. Because we didn't always understand everything people were saying. And because it was hard for the two of us to get up and get going, you know, I mean, it was just real hard. And what I am amazed at, because I was trying to get some of these documents, as I say, ready for. I had forgotten that there was a logic to what we were doing. And we were going to do a drug co-op.

[Assistant] Ok, now that was your decision or was it in talking with the doctor?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah. Oh, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And the children were dying from dysentery. A lot of whooping cough.

[Assistant] And while you're doing the survey, during this time, how many hours a day? How many days a week did you put into it?

[User] We would go out and maybe do it two or three hours a day. Not very much. It was hard work. It was hard work because our Spanish wasn't that good. Because we didn't always understand everything people were saying. And because it was hard for the two of us to get up and get going, you know, I mean, it was just real hard. And what I am amazed at, because I was trying to get some of these documents, as I say, ready for. I had forgotten that there was a logic to what we were doing. And we were going to do a drug co-op.

[Assistant] Ok, now that was your decision or was it in talking with the doctor?

[User] That was the two of us. We thought that would be, that would be.

[Assistant] Did you then go to the doctor and say what do you think?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And it was kind of like we were just beginning the discussion. We went to Cali. They were co-op volunteers in the area. And in Cali, there was a priest who had a marvelous drug co-op, and we visited there and we were just beginning. And then a co-op volunteer came down to Piendamó and he said, you need to look around. And they were like five or six pharmacies. And he said, have you thought about this? And the problem was the drugs there were very, very old because nobody could afford to buy them. But he said, if you do a drug co-op, how are you going to do that without being in competition? And so it was. And that was good. I mean, that was the next step. That's what we needed to think about, you know? And then there was a tragedy with Claudine's family and she had to go home.

[Assistant] About when?

[User] February. She got a, her father had given her two hundred dollars in American money to keep with her, in case you had to come home, he said. And she did not know that he had just been diagnosed with throat cancer. And stupid me. She had put her purse in the windowsill and we had been out for some reason and her purse was still in the windowsill and I had gone back and I'd opened the window to get some light in to do something, and I didn't lock it, and somebody had reached in and taken the two hundred dollars. So she got a letter from home saying, your father doesn't want you to know this, but he's going in for surgery. And if you ever want to talk to him again, you need to come home right now. And that's all she had, and Peace Corps did not really help her get home.

[Assistant] It didn't?

[User] It's nightmare stuff. Nightmare stuff.

[Assistant] So what did she do, she packed it up and went to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] February. She got a, her father had given her two hundred dollars in American money to keep with her, in case you had to come home, he said. And she did not know that he had just been diagnosed with throat cancer. And stupid me. She had put her purse in the windowsill and we had been out for some reason and her purse was still in the windowsill and I had gone back and I'd opened the window to get some light in to do something, and I didn't lock it, and somebody had reached in and taken the two hundred dollars. So she got a letter from home saying, your father doesn't want you to know this, but he's going in for surgery. And if you ever want to talk to him again, you need to come home right now. And that's all she had, and Peace Corps did not really help her get home.

[Assistant] It didn't?

[User] It's nightmare stuff. Nightmare stuff.

[Assistant] So what did she do, she packed it up and went to?

[User] We collected all the money we had, we sent her to Cali. And in Cali, the Peace Corps, the new Peace Corps rep, who was the second cousin of some. I have to be careful. I don't want to be. He was really awful and he did one of these interrogations. How do we know somebody's sick? All you have is this letter. You're looking for a way out. We're not going to pay your way home, you know. And they couldn't get anybody, they couldn't confirm it because it was a weekend. And they finally, she finally arrived in Miami. They sent her home. She had 10 cents. She called home and nobody was there and she finally got to Missouri. But her father had been operated on and he was terminal. But he couldn't talk, you know, after the. It's just god awful.

[Assistant] You only learned all this later?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's nightmare stuff. Nightmare stuff.

[Assistant] So what did she do, she packed it up and went to?

[User] We collected all the money we had, we sent her to Cali. And in Cali, the Peace Corps, the new Peace Corps rep, who was the second cousin of some. I have to be careful. I don't want to be. He was really awful and he did one of these interrogations. How do we know somebody's sick? All you have is this letter. You're looking for a way out. We're not going to pay your way home, you know. And they couldn't get anybody, they couldn't confirm it because it was a weekend. And they finally, she finally arrived in Miami. They sent her home. She had 10 cents. She called home and nobody was there and she finally got to Missouri. But her father had been operated on and he was terminal. But he couldn't talk, you know, after the. It's just god awful.

[Assistant] You only learned all this later?

[User] No, she would write.

[Assistant] OK, but at the time you left, she gets on a plane in Cali. And you're then faced with going back to the village alone.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We collected all the money we had, we sent her to Cali. And in Cali, the Peace Corps, the new Peace Corps rep, who was the second cousin of some. I have to be careful. I don't want to be. He was really awful and he did one of these interrogations. How do we know somebody's sick? All you have is this letter. You're looking for a way out. We're not going to pay your way home, you know. And they couldn't get anybody, they couldn't confirm it because it was a weekend. And they finally, she finally arrived in Miami. They sent her home. She had 10 cents. She called home and nobody was there and she finally got to Missouri. But her father had been operated on and he was terminal. But he couldn't talk, you know, after the. It's just god awful.

[Assistant] You only learned all this later?

[User] No, she would write.

[Assistant] OK, but at the time you left, she gets on a plane in Cali. And you're then faced with going back to the village alone.

[User] Right. But she left from the village. I'd never come. She got on the bus in Piendamó and went, yeah. And we gave her, everybody got together and gave her all the money we could so she could afford to even get up to Cali.

[Assistant] Well, how did you feel about? I mean, it was obviously dramatic and traumatic perhaps. Underneath it all, it means a significant change in your arrangement.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, she would write.

[Assistant] OK, but at the time you left, she gets on a plane in Cali. And you're then faced with going back to the village alone.

[User] Right. But she left from the village. I'd never come. She got on the bus in Piendamó and went, yeah. And we gave her, everybody got together and gave her all the money we could so she could afford to even get up to Cali.

[Assistant] Well, how did you feel about? I mean, it was obviously dramatic and traumatic perhaps. Underneath it all, it means a significant change in your arrangement.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] What was your reaction?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. But she left from the village. I'd never come. She got on the bus in Piendamó and went, yeah. And we gave her, everybody got together and gave her all the money we could so she could afford to even get up to Cali.

[Assistant] Well, how did you feel about? I mean, it was obviously dramatic and traumatic perhaps. Underneath it all, it means a significant change in your arrangement.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] What was your reaction?

[User] Partly I felt relief because we were really weighing each other down, OK? And partly, I thought she was going to come back. That was the last thing she said to me, I'm coming back, you know. And it was rough because, and she was funny, but she's also brilliant.

[Assistant] So Peace Corps in Cali at least knew that she was out of the country.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] What was your reaction?

[User] Partly I felt relief because we were really weighing each other down, OK? And partly, I thought she was going to come back. That was the last thing she said to me, I'm coming back, you know. And it was rough because, and she was funny, but she's also brilliant.

[Assistant] So Peace Corps in Cali at least knew that she was out of the country.

[User] Well, she had to go to Cali. Because, you know, she couldn't get home on her own. They kept her passports.

[Assistant] Yeah. So they knew she was going.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Partly I felt relief because we were really weighing each other down, OK? And partly, I thought she was going to come back. That was the last thing she said to me, I'm coming back, you know. And it was rough because, and she was funny, but she's also brilliant.

[Assistant] So Peace Corps in Cali at least knew that she was out of the country.

[User] Well, she had to go to Cali. Because, you know, she couldn't get home on her own. They kept her passports.

[Assistant] Yeah. So they knew she was going.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did anyone from Peace Corps try to get back in touch with you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, she had to go to Cali. Because, you know, she couldn't get home on her own. They kept her passports.

[Assistant] Yeah. So they knew she was going.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did anyone from Peace Corps try to get back in touch with you?

[User] No.

[Assistant] And so you were sort of there in February. The survey's done. You have this idea of a drug co-op, which is a very sophisticated thing requiring money, if nothing else. I assume that the people in the village, for the most part, were relatively poor.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did anyone from Peace Corps try to get back in touch with you?

[User] No.

[Assistant] And so you were sort of there in February. The survey's done. You have this idea of a drug co-op, which is a very sophisticated thing requiring money, if nothing else. I assume that the people in the village, for the most part, were relatively poor.

[User] Oh, subsistence. They were, the poverty was god awful.

[Assistant] So it wasn't an unrealistic thing to.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] And so you were sort of there in February. The survey's done. You have this idea of a drug co-op, which is a very sophisticated thing requiring money, if nothing else. I assume that the people in the village, for the most part, were relatively poor.

[User] Oh, subsistence. They were, the poverty was god awful.

[Assistant] So it wasn't an unrealistic thing to.

[User] Well, the thing is that I abandoned it. And that's why. I mean, we had had a Peace Corps volunteer come down who was trained in co- ops and that he was beginning. And when I say Claudine was the brains behind it, she was really, really bright. And it was her idea to do a co-op and it was these people need drugs. I mean, she really. And I think if she had stayed, I don't know that we would have gotten a drug co-op, but we would have done something about the drugs. She would have done something about the drug problem. And I didn't. OK, that's what I mean.

[Assistant] So how long were you alone?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, subsistence. They were, the poverty was god awful.

[Assistant] So it wasn't an unrealistic thing to.

[User] Well, the thing is that I abandoned it. And that's why. I mean, we had had a Peace Corps volunteer come down who was trained in co- ops and that he was beginning. And when I say Claudine was the brains behind it, she was really, really bright. And it was her idea to do a co-op and it was these people need drugs. I mean, she really. And I think if she had stayed, I don't know that we would have gotten a drug co-op, but we would have done something about the drugs. She would have done something about the drug problem. And I didn't. OK, that's what I mean.

[Assistant] So how long were you alone?

[User] About two months.

[Assistant] Spinning your wheels?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the thing is that I abandoned it. And that's why. I mean, we had had a Peace Corps volunteer come down who was trained in co- ops and that he was beginning. And when I say Claudine was the brains behind it, she was really, really bright. And it was her idea to do a co-op and it was these people need drugs. I mean, she really. And I think if she had stayed, I don't know that we would have gotten a drug co-op, but we would have done something about the drugs. She would have done something about the drug problem. And I didn't. OK, that's what I mean.

[Assistant] So how long were you alone?

[User] About two months.

[Assistant] Spinning your wheels?

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] You were working.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] About two months.

[Assistant] Spinning your wheels?

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] You were working.

[User] Then I started to accompany the doctor. Because he would, there were veredas. There were little communities outside and he would go on rounds and I would go with him and I would take babies' temperatures and I would do some histories. I would talk to the moms and just, you know. And again, and I would help out in the clinic. He was in the clinic in Piendamó on Wednesday and Saturday, and they had a triage system where all the moms would bring their sick babies and the nurse would decide which were the 20 sickest. It was a triage, it was just awful. And I would sometimes, I'd do a little charla, a little presentation about boiling water or washing hands.

[Assistant] Was there a waiting room and everyone's there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] You were working.

[User] Then I started to accompany the doctor. Because he would, there were veredas. There were little communities outside and he would go on rounds and I would go with him and I would take babies' temperatures and I would do some histories. I would talk to the moms and just, you know. And again, and I would help out in the clinic. He was in the clinic in Piendamó on Wednesday and Saturday, and they had a triage system where all the moms would bring their sick babies and the nurse would decide which were the 20 sickest. It was a triage, it was just awful. And I would sometimes, I'd do a little charla, a little presentation about boiling water or washing hands.

[Assistant] Was there a waiting room and everyone's there?

[User] It was just a little two, a cement block two room clinic. Yeah. And I was occupied and I was learning, but I was not.

[Assistant] You had all these mothers there with sick children who obviously are very concerned.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Then I started to accompany the doctor. Because he would, there were veredas. There were little communities outside and he would go on rounds and I would go with him and I would take babies' temperatures and I would do some histories. I would talk to the moms and just, you know. And again, and I would help out in the clinic. He was in the clinic in Piendamó on Wednesday and Saturday, and they had a triage system where all the moms would bring their sick babies and the nurse would decide which were the 20 sickest. It was a triage, it was just awful. And I would sometimes, I'd do a little charla, a little presentation about boiling water or washing hands.

[Assistant] Was there a waiting room and everyone's there?

[User] It was just a little two, a cement block two room clinic. Yeah. And I was occupied and I was learning, but I was not.

[Assistant] You had all these mothers there with sick children who obviously are very concerned.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] You stand up and say, let me teach you about how to boil your water.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was just a little two, a cement block two room clinic. Yeah. And I was occupied and I was learning, but I was not.

[Assistant] You had all these mothers there with sick children who obviously are very concerned.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] You stand up and say, let me teach you about how to boil your water.

[User] Yeah, just little, you know.

[Assistant] It couldn't have been easy.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] You stand up and say, let me teach you about how to boil your water.

[User] Yeah, just little, you know.

[Assistant] It couldn't have been easy.

[User] It was not easy and I was not very good at it.

[Assistant] And your Spanish was not, you were not anywhere near bilingual.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, just little, you know.

[Assistant] It couldn't have been easy.

[User] It was not easy and I was not very good at it.

[Assistant] And your Spanish was not, you were not anywhere near bilingual.

[User] Right. Oh no. And I was pretty good. I could take babies' temperatures. I could do that and I did that.

[Assistant] But you had enough Spanish to be able to take medical history?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was not easy and I was not very good at it.

[Assistant] And your Spanish was not, you were not anywhere near bilingual.

[User] Right. Oh no. And I was pretty good. I could take babies' temperatures. I could do that and I did that.

[Assistant] But you had enough Spanish to be able to take medical history?

[User] Well, it was very, very simple stuff, you know. Like, does anyone in the family have crosses in the blood? Was there a blood test? And that was, I think that was either TB or syphilis. You know, that kind of thing, you know? And again, always, how many children do you have and how many living and how many dead and what did they die of and have the babies been vaccinated? You know, that kind of stuff.

[Assistant] At this time, all of that information then would go to the doctor?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Oh no. And I was pretty good. I could take babies' temperatures. I could do that and I did that.

[Assistant] But you had enough Spanish to be able to take medical history?

[User] Well, it was very, very simple stuff, you know. Like, does anyone in the family have crosses in the blood? Was there a blood test? And that was, I think that was either TB or syphilis. You know, that kind of thing, you know? And again, always, how many children do you have and how many living and how many dead and what did they die of and have the babies been vaccinated? You know, that kind of stuff.

[Assistant] At this time, all of that information then would go to the doctor?

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And he would try to see the 20.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it was very, very simple stuff, you know. Like, does anyone in the family have crosses in the blood? Was there a blood test? And that was, I think that was either TB or syphilis. You know, that kind of thing, you know? And again, always, how many children do you have and how many living and how many dead and what did they die of and have the babies been vaccinated? You know, that kind of stuff.

[Assistant] At this time, all of that information then would go to the doctor?

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And he would try to see the 20.

[User] He would see the 20.

[Assistant] You didn't dispense any drugs or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And he would try to see the 20.

[User] He would see the 20.

[Assistant] You didn't dispense any drugs or?

[User] No, no. There was nothing.

[Assistant] Yeah. All right. And then at the end of, this was for a couple of months?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He would see the 20.

[Assistant] You didn't dispense any drugs or?

[User] No, no. There was nothing.

[Assistant] Yeah. All right. And then at the end of, this was for a couple of months?

[User] Yeah, and then, I liked being alone. I just liked being alone.

[Assistant] You weren't living in the hotel then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. There was nothing.

[Assistant] Yeah. All right. And then at the end of, this was for a couple of months?

[User] Yeah, and then, I liked being alone. I just liked being alone.

[Assistant] You weren't living in the hotel then.

[User] No, we were in, I was in a house.

[Assistant] Your own place.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, and then, I liked being alone. I just liked being alone.

[Assistant] You weren't living in the hotel then.

[User] No, we were in, I was in a house.

[Assistant] Your own place.

[User] Yeah, right. And then and again, there were the male volunteers that moved back into town, had moved into Piendamó. So I was alone, but I was not the only volunteer in town. And we would visit, you know. They were working on an irrigation ditch in one of the veredas, and we would visit and we would have meetings, and we were just. Nothing really got done. But we were moving and we were.

[Assistant] Supporting each other.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, right. And then and again, there were the male volunteers that moved back into town, had moved into Piendamó. So I was alone, but I was not the only volunteer in town. And we would visit, you know. They were working on an irrigation ditch in one of the veredas, and we would visit and we would have meetings, and we were just. Nothing really got done. But we were moving and we were.

[Assistant] Supporting each other.

[User] Yeah, yeah. And I was, I really liked. And then there was a woman who was with the coffee confederation, and she was more like a home economist and she would go out and visit in the vereda.

[Assistant] Peace Corps?

[User] No, no, she was a woman that the cafetarios, the coffee growers, had an organization and they did work like 4-H work, and she was like a 4-H person and I would go out with her. All of these people, the 4-H woman and the nurse, were competent people and there were all kinds of people in the village who could have been doing what I was attempting to do so much better than I, you know, but that's what I was learning.

[Assistant] So now you're still in your first year.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah. And I was, I really liked. And then there was a woman who was with the coffee confederation, and she was more like a home economist and she would go out and visit in the vereda.

[Assistant] Peace Corps?

[User] No, no, she was a woman that the cafetarios, the coffee growers, had an organization and they did work like 4-H work, and she was like a 4-H person and I would go out with her. All of these people, the 4-H woman and the nurse, were competent people and there were all kinds of people in the village who could have been doing what I was attempting to do so much better than I, you know, but that's what I was learning.

[Assistant] So now you're still in your first year.

[User] First six months.

[Assistant] Yeah, wow. So another volunteer was assigned to you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, she was a woman that the cafetarios, the coffee growers, had an organization and they did work like 4-H work, and she was like a 4-H person and I would go out with her. All of these people, the 4-H woman and the nurse, were competent people and there were all kinds of people in the village who could have been doing what I was attempting to do so much better than I, you know, but that's what I was learning.

[Assistant] So now you're still in your first year.

[User] First six months.

[Assistant] Yeah, wow. So another volunteer was assigned to you?

[User] Well, Betty Hutchinson, who was our project director. I got word she was coming in the next, like the next day. And she showed up and she showed up with a man who was doing evaluations of programs in Colombia. He had been the Peace Corps director in Cyprus and had been, um, they closed the program. And so he was coming through to do evaluations, and I read his evaluations at College Park. They were brilliant. They were so good.

[Assistant] Do you remember his name?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] First six months.

[Assistant] Yeah, wow. So another volunteer was assigned to you?

[User] Well, Betty Hutchinson, who was our project director. I got word she was coming in the next, like the next day. And she showed up and she showed up with a man who was doing evaluations of programs in Colombia. He had been the Peace Corps director in Cyprus and had been, um, they closed the program. And so he was coming through to do evaluations, and I read his evaluations at College Park. They were brilliant. They were so good.

[Assistant] Do you remember his name?

[User] I can't remember his name. I have it at home and I can email it to you because he's not. He's one of the Peace Corps archetypes from that era. And she showed up and she told me that I was getting a partner that would be coming in in a couple of. And I was flabbergasted. I didn't know I was getting a partner, didn't want a partner, and the partner was like arriving the next day and I didn't like any of that.

[Assistant] That was your first contact with Betty?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, Betty Hutchinson, who was our project director. I got word she was coming in the next, like the next day. And she showed up and she showed up with a man who was doing evaluations of programs in Colombia. He had been the Peace Corps director in Cyprus and had been, um, they closed the program. And so he was coming through to do evaluations, and I read his evaluations at College Park. They were brilliant. They were so good.

[Assistant] Do you remember his name?

[User] I can't remember his name. I have it at home and I can email it to you because he's not. He's one of the Peace Corps archetypes from that era. And she showed up and she told me that I was getting a partner that would be coming in in a couple of. And I was flabbergasted. I didn't know I was getting a partner, didn't want a partner, and the partner was like arriving the next day and I didn't like any of that.

[Assistant] That was your first contact with Betty?

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] How did Betty know? Did Betty know what was going on with you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I can't remember his name. I have it at home and I can email it to you because he's not. He's one of the Peace Corps archetypes from that era. And she showed up and she told me that I was getting a partner that would be coming in in a couple of. And I was flabbergasted. I didn't know I was getting a partner, didn't want a partner, and the partner was like arriving the next day and I didn't like any of that.

[Assistant] That was your first contact with Betty?

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] How did Betty know? Did Betty know what was going on with you?

[User] Peace Corps leader, Peace Corps leader.

[Assistant] You had been reflecting back to the leader?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] How did Betty know? Did Betty know what was going on with you?

[User] Peace Corps leader, Peace Corps leader.

[Assistant] You had been reflecting back to the leader?

[User] The leader was, like, we would see them maybe once a week. Yeah, the Peace Corps leader was on.

[Assistant] So there was some leadership.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Peace Corps leader, Peace Corps leader.

[Assistant] You had been reflecting back to the leader?

[User] The leader was, like, we would see them maybe once a week. Yeah, the Peace Corps leader was on.

[Assistant] So there was some leadership.

[User] Oh, exactly. I'm sorry, I should have made that clear. Yeah, the Peace Corps leaders were kind of like, and by that time, the Peace Corps leader was the guy who had been a volunteer in the site, who had been in country like four weeks longer than I. And they made him a leader. The woman who was being assigned to my site. And then you get into all this stuff, what happened to women in Colombia. She and her partner had been on the Ecuadorian border, and they had closed their site because they said that there was a problem with her partner and they sent her home. And that kind of arbitrary. [tape break]

[Assistant] Now this was a woman who would had trained with you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The leader was, like, we would see them maybe once a week. Yeah, the Peace Corps leader was on.

[Assistant] So there was some leadership.

[User] Oh, exactly. I'm sorry, I should have made that clear. Yeah, the Peace Corps leaders were kind of like, and by that time, the Peace Corps leader was the guy who had been a volunteer in the site, who had been in country like four weeks longer than I. And they made him a leader. The woman who was being assigned to my site. And then you get into all this stuff, what happened to women in Colombia. She and her partner had been on the Ecuadorian border, and they had closed their site because they said that there was a problem with her partner and they sent her home. And that kind of arbitrary. [tape break]

[Assistant] Now this was a woman who would had trained with you?

[User] She had trained in Colombia XIII, which was a group that was four weeks ahead of us in training, but we had had the same training and we had both come out of University of New Mexico.

[Assistant] And she had been assigned with another woman at the border.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, exactly. I'm sorry, I should have made that clear. Yeah, the Peace Corps leaders were kind of like, and by that time, the Peace Corps leader was the guy who had been a volunteer in the site, who had been in country like four weeks longer than I. And they made him a leader. The woman who was being assigned to my site. And then you get into all this stuff, what happened to women in Colombia. She and her partner had been on the Ecuadorian border, and they had closed their site because they said that there was a problem with her partner and they sent her home. And that kind of arbitrary. [tape break]

[Assistant] Now this was a woman who would had trained with you?

[User] She had trained in Colombia XIII, which was a group that was four weeks ahead of us in training, but we had had the same training and we had both come out of University of New Mexico.

[Assistant] And she had been assigned with another woman at the border.

[User] And they were closing the site and sending the other woman home, which was incredibly unfair. And my partner, Bev was her name, Makowski, and she didn't want to come to Piendamó. She was outraged that what had happened had been unfair, that they had been, they were deeply involved in their community. She's maintained ties with that community over the 40 years, you know? And so it was a wrench. It just, and I hadn't been told and it was just awful.

[Assistant] So Betty appears, tells you, disappears. And Bev comes the next day.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She had trained in Colombia XIII, which was a group that was four weeks ahead of us in training, but we had had the same training and we had both come out of University of New Mexico.

[Assistant] And she had been assigned with another woman at the border.

[User] And they were closing the site and sending the other woman home, which was incredibly unfair. And my partner, Bev was her name, Makowski, and she didn't want to come to Piendamó. She was outraged that what had happened had been unfair, that they had been, they were deeply involved in their community. She's maintained ties with that community over the 40 years, you know? And so it was a wrench. It just, and I hadn't been told and it was just awful.

[Assistant] So Betty appears, tells you, disappears. And Bev comes the next day.

[User] Yeah. What I remember about the man who was doing the evaluation is that he was trying. We were, I was trying to impress upon him how desperate the situation was for so many of these women whose children were dying. And I remember he said to me in kind of like this Socratic sort of thing, he said, well, populations are real. You know, overpopulation is a real problem. So why are you even worried about saving these babies or something along those lines? And it was rhetorical, you know, he was trying to. And I remember along the lines of, well, you should have thought of that before you sent me here. So that was that.

[Assistant] So when Bev comes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they were closing the site and sending the other woman home, which was incredibly unfair. And my partner, Bev was her name, Makowski, and she didn't want to come to Piendamó. She was outraged that what had happened had been unfair, that they had been, they were deeply involved in their community. She's maintained ties with that community over the 40 years, you know? And so it was a wrench. It just, and I hadn't been told and it was just awful.

[Assistant] So Betty appears, tells you, disappears. And Bev comes the next day.

[User] Yeah. What I remember about the man who was doing the evaluation is that he was trying. We were, I was trying to impress upon him how desperate the situation was for so many of these women whose children were dying. And I remember he said to me in kind of like this Socratic sort of thing, he said, well, populations are real. You know, overpopulation is a real problem. So why are you even worried about saving these babies or something along those lines? And it was rhetorical, you know, he was trying to. And I remember along the lines of, well, you should have thought of that before you sent me here. So that was that.

[Assistant] So when Bev comes?

[User] Bev comes, and Bev was just, um, we were as different as night and day. She was very comfortable in country. Her Spanish was very good. She was interested. She really, really liked Colombian people and could relate to them in a way that I could not. And she danced. She could dance well and she loved the music. She loved the culture. And so she was a real addition to our site. And she was just competent, and she managed the household much better than I, you know, that kind of thing.

[Assistant] Did you feel intimidated?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Bev comes, and Bev was just, um, we were as different as night and day. She was very comfortable in country. Her Spanish was very good. She was interested. She really, really liked Colombian people and could relate to them in a way that I could not. And she danced. She could dance well and she loved the music. She loved the culture. And so she was a real addition to our site. And she was just competent, and she managed the household much better than I, you know, that kind of thing.

[Assistant] Did you feel intimidated?

[User] No, no. But she wasn't interested in what I was interested in. And what I was. She became, she did a lot of visiting, a lot of community, you know, trying to do the community development part. She was not interested in health education.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] And I was, but I was floundering. And what happened, because we did develop a project. We again, based on our.

[Assistant] You being you and Bev?