[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the curriculum was East Africa and the TEA program was Teachers for East Africa. So they were basically all the stuff, all the professional stuff, were on the faculty of that program. So they were transitioning to a different kind of crowd as well.

[Assistant] Besides obviously the curriculum and the teachers portion of what you were going to be doing in Kenya, what else did you do in training?

[User] We did cross country studies. We did education studies. And although I didn't do this, we could take final exams and get a certificate of some type for education, sort of a, not a master's. I don't think it was a master's, but it was an advanced certificate, possibly could have been led to a master's with some additional coursework. We did the language study. And we had sort of a P.T. or physical exercise type of once or twice a week where we had East African type games explained to us and we went out and we'd practice soccer and that sort of thing.

[Assistant] Cool. So that was kind of the cultural piece to make sure you could fit in?

[User] Yeah, that was basically it. Yes. We, we met with people and then we did a training in schools in New York City. And I was assigned to the Charles. [coughs] [tape break]

[Assistant] So we were just talking a little bit about the training that you had prior to going to Kenya. Anything else notable that you want to share?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it was a very good experience at Columbia. The teaching experience in the public school system was very good. I went to Charles Evans Hughes High School, which was a bit of a, I guess maybe inner-city school with a pretty diverse student population.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User]
And I thought that gave me a good kind of practice in putting together lesson plans and so on. Of course, I discovered when I got to Kenya that there's an awful lot of lesson plans go into running a system for a whole year and so on. But it was a good experience. A kind of funny thing. I had some discipline issues there and it kind of discouraged me. And I was saying to myself, golly, this is the center of Western civilization, New York City. And the motivation of some of the students were very disappointing and so on and so forth. People didn't do their assignment. I was taught there for about three weeks and I had assignments and basically substitute for a teacher.

And I started saying to myself, holy mackerel, I'm going off to the a remote, rural part of Africa. These are urban, civilized, in theory. What's it going to be like there? I don't know. I mean, I'm having enough trouble dealing with the children here, you know, how am I going to deal with them over there? I have my doubts.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] So, you know, I talked to some of the people who were still in the program, who taught in Kenya and had come back. And they reassured me that the students are very motivated in Africa, there's a hunger for education and that I'd find it very different. And that kind of gave me a little more confidence. And with that, we basically had our selection process, several selection processes. These were kind of nerve wracking.

[Assistant] Can you tell us a little bit more about that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we had a big reunion, oh, maybe three, four years ago. My wife Jennifer was with me. And several of the people who were deselected were there. And they had, it was still a meaningful experience of them in the training.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And some of them, it was in the D.C. area. But I remember having a chat with a fellow I hadn't seen in 50 years almost.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And we had been friends. We probably, you know, had nearby rooms in the hotel and had had dinners together and. But there he was, married, children.

[Assistant] Did he know why he was deselected?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we had been friends. We probably, you know, had nearby rooms in the hotel and had had dinners together and. But there he was, married, children.

[Assistant] Did he know why he was deselected?

[User] I don't think he ever really. They didn't talk about it a whole lot. Possibly for some psychological reasons or emotional reasons. I think they were taking absolutely no risks.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And quite honestly, I wasn't sure whether I was, uh, what they were looking for. [coughs] We were talking about training.

[Assistant] Yeah, there was something, I wanted to go back for a moment. Well, actually, a couple of things if you could address. This is more relevant to what you were just talking about with the training. What were you going to be teaching in Kenya? What was the subjects or the range of subjects that you were going to teaching?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
This is a Dutchman, Bishop Draper, and I'll tell you, he had people on their, and if he was coming everybody was uptight. So, you know, that was part of the subculture within which I worked. Then very quickly I discovered there was a whole world out there with complex rules and regulations and expectations and so on, called the Lubukusu people. And I learned that there was a hereditary ruler by the name of Chief Sudi. I learned that his first son, his heir apparent, had decided not to be chief, not to be political head of this entity, this large population. And he went into the priesthood, and he was the youngest Catholic bishop at the time, stationed in Nairobi.

But that was home, where I was. And within about two weeks, I had a bishop knocking at my door with some refreshments for me and so on. And he'd been to America and he wanted to meet the American, first American out there. And Bishop Maurice Otunga and I became lifelong friends. He later became the cardinal archbishop of Nairobi.

And I'll put a footnote, it has nothing to do with Peace Corps. When I was working in and out of Nairobi for MAP International, I initiated an AIDS initiative, and it was faith-based leadership. Well, you know what? Guess who my buddy was. We corresponded over the years. We weren't, but I was in town. I let him know I was there. I had an audience with His Eminence, the Cardinal. I gave him all the materials we were developing. It had lots of scripture in it. Lots of, you know, things would make a religious leader comfortable dealing with an issue that they were not comfortable with.

[Assistant] How many years later was that?

[User] This was back in, uh, '93.

[Assistant] Wow. So that was.

[User] Quite a while.

[Assistant] 30 years after your Peace Corps service.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, yes. There I am sitting with this handsome young guy who appeared at my door about two weeks into my Peace Corps service, shook my hand and warm, wouldn't let me kneel down. I wasn't sure how to behave. He had, he had the stuff on, you know, he had his cross on.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I knew something was going on and I knew this was important. And he is a significant leader of that community. He later, he carried the ivory bracelet of peace with him that came from his father and his ancestors. And there was an awesome, sacred responsibility of a tribal nature as well. So I began to learn a little bit more about the greater world, the bigger circle around which surrounded me and so on. And then I found out the old sea captain, who had been shot and left dead by the Nazis, used to make trips over to Uganda, to Tororo hill, huge volcanic megaliths sticking out. You could see it on clear days from the school compound just over the Uganda border. We were right on the border.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And he'd go to buy supplies for the mission. Well, by golly, you know, I wanted to do as much traveling as I could, so I'd hitch a ride with him. Oh, he loved talking. He talked for, he talked forever with me. And he was just the greatest guy. And I got to like him very much.

[Assistant] Do you remember his name?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I knew something was going on and I knew this was important. And he is a significant leader of that community. He later, he carried the ivory bracelet of peace with him that came from his father and his ancestors. And there was an awesome, sacred responsibility of a tribal nature as well. So I began to learn a little bit more about the greater world, the bigger circle around which surrounded me and so on. And then I found out the old sea captain, who had been shot and left dead by the Nazis, used to make trips over to Uganda, to Tororo hill, huge volcanic megaliths sticking out. You could see it on clear days from the school compound just over the Uganda border. We were right on the border.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And he'd go to buy supplies for the mission. Well, by golly, you know, I wanted to do as much traveling as I could, so I'd hitch a ride with him. Oh, he loved talking. He talked for, he talked forever with me. And he was just the greatest guy. And I got to like him very much.

[Assistant] Do you remember his name?

[User] His name was Father Valstra. V-A-L-S-T-R-A, Father Valstra. The W pronounces as a V. The other priest was Father Kris. Sorry, sorry, Father Klapper, Klipis, Klaper, Koipus. Dutch for Cooper, the English Cooper. And they turned out to be just charming guys. They loved to drink beer. And I began to drink beer while I was there. It's not a custom I've continued, but for the time. Well, the day I arrived in my house from the monks guest cottage, an old, old monk, father, Brother Pacificus, big, chubby old monk, came over with the school car and lugged in a six pack of Tusker beer and put it on my dining room table. And he said, yeah, Mr. Scully, you'll be drinking a lot of this here, you know. And I thanked Brother Pacificus and, you know.

[Assistant] Wasn't that considered a sin to be?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And make friends. And not be lonely. And I think that was the success that came out of it. But I'll move the, I'll move the film ahead a little bit. The brothers were a nervous wreck about this Cambridge exam. There had been a mini riot at the school when they heard an American was coming to take over the Cambridge courses because it was rumored that Americans didn't really speak English. And this is a very Cambridge Anglo-focused tradition at the time. The exams were set in Cambridge. They were brought to Kenya carefully and monitored under security and then taken back to Cambridge for correction and grading.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] And then you got the grades several months later, posted all over the country and in the newspapers, by name. So you knew who passed and who didn't and how badly and how well. So this was a big pressure on the school. They'd never had a class and some of the more established schools looked down on them, didn't take them seriously. And a number of schools had very poor records of early classes. So they were kind of nervous. If they didn't do well, would they be thrown out? You know, there were all kinds of political implications here.

[Assistant] What would passing the Cambridge exam afford these students?

[User] Entry way into higher education. Without the GCE, the General Cambridge Exam, you could not go on to university. You could not go on to teacher training colleges of a degree level, and many other things. And therein rested a, a true cleavage between the American educator, quote unquote, who had done two months of teaching half seriously at Columbia University. But I sure glad I did it when I got there. And the establishment and the Dutch. None of the Dutch brothers who ran the school had any kind of degree. They did teachers training courses in the Netherlands to teach grade school, and they were all the victims and casualties of the war. So they all lived through the occupation. They didn't have a lot of advantages and the country was just emerging still from war-torn Europe.

[Assistant] The Teachers for East Africa, the TEA, were they British?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, uh, and a generator in the night to give us 2 hours of electricity to study.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] But, uh, it was just hard work on the part of the students. But I had to have consultations with the brothers about this. I said, listen, in America, we, we really strive for the best. We assume you can do it unless you prove in your exams you can't. These kids can all go on to higher education. Some of the, some of the brothers haven't been able to do that themselves, let alone go on the university, and they were cloistered into their own societal educational institutions. I said, no, these boys need to go for it. They need to go for the golden ring. They can. And I tried to. And there's just a disconnect on the whole system.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And there was also a sense of, they don't deserve it, in a way too, they're just kind of poor. I resented that very much. It was like, you know, almost a thing, like we never had these advantages, you know? Why should they? You know, it takes time. The whole thing was, it's going to take generations. And I wasn't patient enough for that. I said, hell no. I'm the first in my family to have a college education.

[Assistant] They can do it too.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And there was also a sense of, they don't deserve it, in a way too, they're just kind of poor. I resented that very much. It was like, you know, almost a thing, like we never had these advantages, you know? Why should they? You know, it takes time. The whole thing was, it's going to take generations. And I wasn't patient enough for that. I said, hell no. I'm the first in my family to have a college education.

[Assistant] They can do it too.

[User] My father was told he couldn't and he didn't. He had a marvelous career. He's a great guy and he accomplished immense things. But he didn't go to college. Why? Too poor. So why try? Well, I wasn't going to let this happen to these kids. And by Jove, we had very high university admissions. I insisted they apply for everything. The monks were, the brothers were saying, ah, you know, let them try for a teacher training college, maybe they'd get in. They had a low opinion of a lot of these kids.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I just did not accept that. And I also came from a. [tape break]

[Assistant] Okay. If you just want to pick up where you left off.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Not to mention flogging grown men in public places for, you know, break, breaching whatever the colonial rules were at the time. And humiliating people was, you know, it was a very transitional period in Kenyan history. Thank God I was there. I have just, it was just been a wonderful, wonderful experience to have been there at that time. And my journals, my diaries, my field notes, etcetera, are historic documents. Now, I've published a number of things on that, on that period, information I collected from the period. And when I went back to graduate school, I did graduate studies in anthropology. My M.A. was on the Bukusu and pieced together a quick and dirty thing to get me through on the Bukusu people and some of their cultural interests and cultural attributes.

In my second year, brother Martino took over the fourth form. I worked with a new team taught, but he basically had the class for the next Cambridge. He spoke very good English and boy, he, we, I mean, he got really proficient in English. He was very good to begin with. He was the English master that I basically upgraded. And so he did that and the next year did quite well as well, about the same as the first year, which was good.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So it was, a momentum got started. And a British guy, David Hill, came in to replace me. He did not teach. He taught the lower form English the year I left, and brother Martino took others. It was kind of interesting. But in my evaluation and recommendations to the brother master, headmaster, the brother headmaster, I guess it was. I said, keep your eyes on this Brit. I don't know if it was a bias I had from having a bad taste from my own experiences.

[Assistant] He wasn't a Peace Corps volunteer?

[User] No, he was, uh, TEAA. Oh, no, I'm sorry.

[Assistant] I thought they were gone.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's a Bukusu, that's a Bukusu fortified, big moat, it has a moat to keep people out, and then arrows and spears and everything else and that the garbage was found.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] And then I did a couple of publications on this because I didn't want it to be lost somehow. So that's Peter Simi and I'm still in touch with him. Here's another guy. I was just, this was a nice sort of pocket. Anyway, that'll give you an idea.

[Assistant] Interesting.

[User] Yeah. So, you know, you're sitting there and you suddenly realize, holy Toledo. I mean, gee. Do you want to put it back on?

[Assistant] No, I've had it on.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then I did a couple of publications on this because I didn't want it to be lost somehow. So that's Peter Simi and I'm still in touch with him. Here's another guy. I was just, this was a nice sort of pocket. Anyway, that'll give you an idea.

[Assistant] Interesting.

[User] Yeah. So, you know, you're sitting there and you suddenly realize, holy Toledo. I mean, gee. Do you want to put it back on?

[Assistant] No, I've had it on.

[User] Oh, you have it on. Oh, gosh. Oh, good.

[Assistant] Hope it's okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Which we used to compare notes on and have a late night, you know, swapping of horror stories and war tales when we would get together. Jackie and I are still in touch. Nancy and I met at our 50th, or whenever it was, 45th or whatever, get together. She's going strong. She's had a very interesting career. Jackie, a very interesting after Peace Corps life as well, has done some very fascinating things. As have I think most of the chaps that I had a chance to get to know. But those two women and I had a very special bond because we were it and we were very, we were in sister-brother establishments.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So that kind of enabled us to connect. Now, I'm working on a novel right now a little bit about that.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Whether or not, how long it takes, took me four years to get this bloody thing going. That's mainly because I have few other things to do in life besides write. But the second year we get this history project going. USAID or one American agency got a whole shipment of books, donated books from all over, everything you can imagine, and they were in a warehouse to the ceiling. And my next vacation, I went down and I literally, I got ahold of the brothers. They came down with a station wagon and I got. But we trucked back, we built a whole library. Lots of history, of course, but whatever we'd get, old Encyclopedia Britannica, all kinds of things, things that nobody had ever seen before.

[Assistant] Where did they come from?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant] This is Phyllis Noble. I am interviewing Maria del Carmen Moreno, who was a Peace Corps volunteer in Mauritania from 1989 to 1991 when she was evacuated, went on to finish 1991 in Peace Corps service in Mali, and then returned to Mauritania as Peace Corps staff, as a trainer of new volunteers. Yeah, so we'll talk about that.

[User] Sure.

[Assistant] Maria. Um. Oh, did I say today is, today is May 1st. It's May Day, 2016.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And we are in Madison, Wisconsin. So Maria, let's, let's talk about who you were before you joined the Peace Corps. Where were you born?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure.

[Assistant] Maria. Um. Oh, did I say today is, today is May 1st. It's May Day, 2016.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And we are in Madison, Wisconsin. So Maria, let's, let's talk about who you were before you joined the Peace Corps. Where were you born?

[User] I was born in the Dominican Republic, an island in the Caribbean, but grew up in New York City as part of the Dominican diaspora that started moving to the States after 1965.

[Assistant] Yeah. And, um, how old were you when your family moved?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And we are in Madison, Wisconsin. So Maria, let's, let's talk about who you were before you joined the Peace Corps. Where were you born?

[User] I was born in the Dominican Republic, an island in the Caribbean, but grew up in New York City as part of the Dominican diaspora that started moving to the States after 1965.

[Assistant] Yeah. And, um, how old were you when your family moved?

[User] I was six.

[Assistant] To New York. You were six. So you have pretty strong memories of being a child in Dominican Republic.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was born in the Dominican Republic, an island in the Caribbean, but grew up in New York City as part of the Dominican diaspora that started moving to the States after 1965.

[Assistant] Yeah. And, um, how old were you when your family moved?

[User] I was six.

[Assistant] To New York. You were six. So you have pretty strong memories of being a child in Dominican Republic.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And when you moved to New York, it was you and both of your parents?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was six.

[Assistant] To New York. You were six. So you have pretty strong memories of being a child in Dominican Republic.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And when you moved to New York, it was you and both of your parents?

[User] Both of my parents. And, um, there were four of us. Four siblings, four children.

[Assistant] Where were you among the four?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was in the middle. So kind of middle daughter.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] Um, middle. I have an older sister and an older brother. And then I have my younger sister, and then my parents had two more children.

[Assistant] After that.

[User] After that.

[Assistant] Wow. Born in New York?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, middle. I have an older sister and an older brother. And then I have my younger sister, and then my parents had two more children.

[Assistant] After that.

[User] After that.

[Assistant] Wow. Born in New York?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So six of you altogether. Wow, wow. And what did your parents do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] After that.

[Assistant] Wow. Born in New York?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So six of you altogether. Wow, wow. And what did your parents do?

[User] So my mom initially worked in a factory, and then, uh, uh, stayed at home when we lost our baby, our, our, um, uh, kind of in- home, um, caretaker. And then and my dad worked, um, kind of it was, um, he worked for a man that had a lot of properties, and he managed his properties, and then eventually he purchased those properties when this man decided to return to Nicaragua.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. So your father purchased the properties that he'd been taking care of.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So six of you altogether. Wow, wow. And what did your parents do?

[User] So my mom initially worked in a factory, and then, uh, uh, stayed at home when we lost our baby, our, our, um, uh, kind of in- home, um, caretaker. And then and my dad worked, um, kind of it was, um, he worked for a man that had a lot of properties, and he managed his properties, and then eventually he purchased those properties when this man decided to return to Nicaragua.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. So your father purchased the properties that he'd been taking care of.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Wow. And where were the?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So my mom initially worked in a factory, and then, uh, uh, stayed at home when we lost our baby, our, our, um, uh, kind of in- home, um, caretaker. And then and my dad worked, um, kind of it was, um, he worked for a man that had a lot of properties, and he managed his properties, and then eventually he purchased those properties when this man decided to return to Nicaragua.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. So your father purchased the properties that he'd been taking care of.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Wow. And where were the?

[User] These were an apartment building in Manhattan, the Bronx.

[Assistant] Huh. Wow. That must have been a good move I’m thinking for your father.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Wow. And where were the?

[User] These were an apartment building in Manhattan, the Bronx.

[Assistant] Huh. Wow. That must have been a good move I’m thinking for your father.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Economically, for the family. Six kids plus two parents. That's eight people.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] These were an apartment building in Manhattan, the Bronx.

[Assistant] Huh. Wow. That must have been a good move I’m thinking for your father.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Economically, for the family. Six kids plus two parents. That's eight people.

[User] Eight people.

[Assistant] I'm trying to imagine traveling together as a family. Did you ever go anywhere?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Economically, for the family. Six kids plus two parents. That's eight people.

[User] Eight people.

[Assistant] I'm trying to imagine traveling together as a family. Did you ever go anywhere?

[User] No. We never traveled. No.

[Assistant] You couldn't. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Eight people.

[Assistant] I'm trying to imagine traveling together as a family. Did you ever go anywhere?

[User] No. We never traveled. No.

[Assistant] You couldn't. Yeah.

[User] Yeah. We didn't go anywhere.

[Assistant] Right. And where in New York did you live?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. We never traveled. No.

[Assistant] You couldn't. Yeah.

[User] Yeah. We didn't go anywhere.

[Assistant] Right. And where in New York did you live?

[User] So we initially lived in Manhattan, which is where the Dominican, uh, community was. And then we moved to the Bronx by Fordham University.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine that. And so, um, when you arrived in New York, I'm thinking you probably spoke only Spanish.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. We didn't go anywhere.

[Assistant] Right. And where in New York did you live?

[User] So we initially lived in Manhattan, which is where the Dominican, uh, community was. And then we moved to the Bronx by Fordham University.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine that. And so, um, when you arrived in New York, I'm thinking you probably spoke only Spanish.

[User] Only Spanish. Right.

[Assistant] And now you speak English without an accent. So you did a remarkable job of being bilingual.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So we initially lived in Manhattan, which is where the Dominican, uh, community was. And then we moved to the Bronx by Fordham University.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine that. And so, um, when you arrived in New York, I'm thinking you probably spoke only Spanish.

[User] Only Spanish. Right.

[Assistant] And now you speak English without an accent. So you did a remarkable job of being bilingual.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Where did you go to school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Only Spanish. Right.

[Assistant] And now you speak English without an accent. So you did a remarkable job of being bilingual.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Where did you go to school?

[User] Um. You mean undergrad or?

[Assistant] No, no, I mean, as a child.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Where did you go to school?

[User] Um. You mean undergrad or?

[Assistant] No, no, I mean, as a child.

[User] So first, initially it was in, um, Manhattan. It was an elementary school, and then we moved to the Bronx and I went to high, I went to a Catholic school.

[Assistant] A Catholic school. So elementary school was public school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. You mean undergrad or?

[Assistant] No, no, I mean, as a child.

[User] So first, initially it was in, um, Manhattan. It was an elementary school, and then we moved to the Bronx and I went to high, I went to a Catholic school.

[Assistant] A Catholic school. So elementary school was public school.

[User] Yeah. And middle school was, uh, public school. And then high school was a Catholic school, a Catholic school in the Bronx.

[Assistant] In the Bronx. What was the name of the school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So first, initially it was in, um, Manhattan. It was an elementary school, and then we moved to the Bronx and I went to high, I went to a Catholic school.

[Assistant] A Catholic school. So elementary school was public school.

[User] Yeah. And middle school was, uh, public school. And then high school was a Catholic school, a Catholic school in the Bronx.

[Assistant] In the Bronx. What was the name of the school?

[User] Saint Thomas Aquinas.

[Assistant] Saint Thomas Aquinas. Okay. And, um, I went to a Catholic school too. That's why I'm smiling. Um, so at Saint Thomas Aquinas in high school, uh, you already spoke Spanish. Were you required to take another foreign language?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And middle school was, uh, public school. And then high school was a Catholic school, a Catholic school in the Bronx.

[Assistant] In the Bronx. What was the name of the school?

[User] Saint Thomas Aquinas.

[Assistant] Saint Thomas Aquinas. Okay. And, um, I went to a Catholic school too. That's why I'm smiling. Um, so at Saint Thomas Aquinas in high school, uh, you already spoke Spanish. Were you required to take another foreign language?

[User] Well, all the school, all the schooling was in English.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah. Sure.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Saint Thomas Aquinas.

[Assistant] Saint Thomas Aquinas. Okay. And, um, I went to a Catholic school too. That's why I'm smiling. Um, so at Saint Thomas Aquinas in high school, uh, you already spoke Spanish. Were you required to take another foreign language?

[User] Well, all the school, all the schooling was in English.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah. Sure.

[User] Yeah. No, I mean, in high school, no, they counted my Spanish as a foreign language.

[Assistant] So you didn't have to.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, all the school, all the schooling was in English.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah. Sure.

[User] Yeah. No, I mean, in high school, no, they counted my Spanish as a foreign language.

[Assistant] So you didn't have to.

[User] I didn't have to take another language or take Spanish.

[Assistant] Spanish, right. You had that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. No, I mean, in high school, no, they counted my Spanish as a foreign language.

[Assistant] So you didn't have to.

[User] I didn't have to take another language or take Spanish.

[Assistant] Spanish, right. You had that.

[User] I already had it. Yeah. It's kind of interesting, but it was an all girls school. I don't know if that's what you went?

[Assistant] I did go to an all girls Catholic school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn't have to take another language or take Spanish.

[Assistant] Spanish, right. You had that.

[User] I already had it. Yeah. It's kind of interesting, but it was an all girls school. I don't know if that's what you went?

[Assistant] I did go to an all girls Catholic school.

[User] I loved it.

[Assistant] Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah. You had to wear uniforms?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I loved it.

[Assistant] Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah. You had to wear uniforms?

[User] Yes, I loved it. I loved everything about it.

[Assistant] Oh, wow.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Quite the opposite of my experience. And so how did you learn? You must have learned to read and write in Spanish in school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I loved it. I loved everything about it.

[Assistant] Oh, wow.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Quite the opposite of my experience. And so how did you learn? You must have learned to read and write in Spanish in school?

[User] Because I was in school in the Dominican Republic prior to coming to the States.

[Assistant] Okay. All right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Quite the opposite of my experience. And so how did you learn? You must have learned to read and write in Spanish in school?

[User] Because I was in school in the Dominican Republic prior to coming to the States.

[Assistant] Okay. All right.

[User] So even though I was so young, yeah, I was already in school.

[Assistant] Okay. So you were already literate in Spanish.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because I was in school in the Dominican Republic prior to coming to the States.

[Assistant] Okay. All right.

[User] So even though I was so young, yeah, I was already in school.

[Assistant] Okay. So you were already literate in Spanish.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And then when you came here, you had to switch to English.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So even though I was so young, yeah, I was already in school.

[Assistant] Okay. So you were already literate in Spanish.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And then when you came here, you had to switch to English.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] What was that like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And then when you came here, you had to switch to English.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] What was that like?

[User] Um, well, that was very hard, but, you know, I learned it. I don't know how, but.

[Assistant] I'm thinking that at age six, to be thrust into.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, well, that was very hard, but, you know, I learned it. I don't know how, but.

[Assistant] I'm thinking that at age six, to be thrust into.

[User] You know, I lived in a Spanish community, so everything was in Spanish. The only thing that was in English was school.

[Assistant] Was school.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] But school must have seemed, um, ultra difficult for that first year until, I mean, kids pick up languages quickly, but the beginning must be.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I lived in a Spanish community, so everything was in Spanish. The only thing that was in English was school.

[Assistant] Was school.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] But school must have seemed, um, ultra difficult for that first year until, I mean, kids pick up languages quickly, but the beginning must be.

[User] Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] So you're at Saint Thomas of Aquinas. Um, what did you, what did you do as a kid when you were, uh. I'm not, I'm not talking about academics, but, um, extracurricular activities.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. You know, I played tennis. Uh, um, so I spent a lot of time traveling to and from a place to play tennis, so. So sometimes that was a two hour train ride to Queens.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Manhattan.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah. So that's what I did.

[Assistant] So that tennis then brought you into other corners of New York. You must know New York very well then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Manhattan.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah. So that's what I did.

[Assistant] So that tennis then brought you into other corners of New York. You must know New York very well then.

[User] Well, I did before.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, of course.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. So that's what I did.

[Assistant] So that tennis then brought you into other corners of New York. You must know New York very well then.

[User] Well, I did before.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, of course.

[User] That was wonderful.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Uh, so you played tennis. Um, did you hang out with, uh, both Hispanic kids, girls and?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I did before.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, of course.

[User] That was wonderful.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Uh, so you played tennis. Um, did you hang out with, uh, both Hispanic kids, girls and?

[User] Uh, you know, not really. I mean, we weren't really allowed to hang out, so my, my dad was very strict. So you went to school, you either went to a job, or you went to sports, and you came home.

[Assistant] You came home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, you know, not really. I mean, we weren't really allowed to hang out, so my, my dad was very strict. So you went to school, you either went to a job, or you went to sports, and you came home.

[Assistant] You came home?

[User] Yeah. And so and we had a very large extended family. So we really didn't need anybody else.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] We were, we were quite a large group.

[Assistant] It sounds wonderful. It sounds very warm.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And so and we had a very large extended family. So we really didn't need anybody else.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] We were, we were quite a large group.

[Assistant] It sounds wonderful. It sounds very warm.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What, what about, um, summer jobs after you were 16? Did you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were, we were quite a large group.

[Assistant] It sounds wonderful. It sounds very warm.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What, what about, um, summer jobs after you were 16? Did you?

[User] Uh, no, I played tennis. I played tennis through, yeah, until I went to college. My summers were filled with tennis.

[Assistant] You must have been very good.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What, what about, um, summer jobs after you were 16? Did you?

[User] Uh, no, I played tennis. I played tennis through, yeah, until I went to college. My summers were filled with tennis.

[Assistant] You must have been very good.

[User] Well, I loved it.

[Assistant] Do you still play?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, no, I played tennis. I played tennis through, yeah, until I went to college. My summers were filled with tennis.

[Assistant] You must have been very good.

[User] Well, I loved it.

[Assistant] Do you still play?

[User] A little bit. Yeah, not as much.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Excellent. So then you graduate from high school and then you went to college?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I loved it.

[Assistant] Do you still play?

[User] A little bit. Yeah, not as much.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Excellent. So then you graduate from high school and then you went to college?

[User] I went to American university in Washington, D.C.

[Assistant] American University, the very place we were just talking about that has the Peace Corps Community Archive, in Washington, D.C.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A little bit. Yeah, not as much.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Excellent. So then you graduate from high school and then you went to college?

[User] I went to American university in Washington, D.C.

[Assistant] American University, the very place we were just talking about that has the Peace Corps Community Archive, in Washington, D.C.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So this was your first time living outside of New York?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I went to American university in Washington, D.C.

[Assistant] American University, the very place we were just talking about that has the Peace Corps Community Archive, in Washington, D.C.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So this was your first time living outside of New York?

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] In D.C., did you live in a dorm?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So this was your first time living outside of New York?

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] In D.C., did you live in a dorm?

[User] I lived in the dorms.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. And what did you study at?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] In D.C., did you live in a dorm?

[User] I lived in the dorms.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. And what did you study at?

[User] You know, I, I did political science and Russian studies.

[Assistant] Russian studies. Did you study Russian?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I lived in the dorms.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. And what did you study at?

[User] You know, I, I did political science and Russian studies.

[Assistant] Russian studies. Did you study Russian?

[User] I did, I did, there.

[Assistant] And you hadn't done that in high school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I, I did political science and Russian studies.

[Assistant] Russian studies. Did you study Russian?

[User] I did, I did, there.

[Assistant] And you hadn't done that in high school?

[User] No.

[Assistant] So you plunged into that brand new in college.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did, I did, there.

[Assistant] And you hadn't done that in high school?

[User] No.

[Assistant] So you plunged into that brand new in college.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Wow. I'm thinking how difficult that is.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] So you plunged into that brand new in college.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Wow. I'm thinking how difficult that is.

[User] It was, the alphabet. Yeah. Well, I mean, I did learn to speak the language so.

[Assistant] Radically different from Spanish. It's not like French or Italian or something.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Wow. I'm thinking how difficult that is.

[User] It was, the alphabet. Yeah. Well, I mean, I did learn to speak the language so.

[Assistant] Radically different from Spanish. It's not like French or Italian or something.

[User] Yeah. Correct.

[Assistant] Wow. Well, you took on. What, what drew you, what attracted to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Correct.

[Assistant] Wow. Well, you took on. What, what drew you, what attracted to?

[User] Well, I was, uh, you know, I was, I was a, um, an avid reader and, um, my, at the time when I was filling out my, which I think, uh, when I was filling out my application for courses, I must have been reading. I used to go through like phases, like I would read all these French authors, or I would read all these Latin American authors. And I was reading maybe the Russian authors at the time. So I was heavily into Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky and some of these other Russian authors. So maybe that's why. And, you know, and I saw that they had Russian language and Russian studies, so I just decided to take it.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And then made a minor out of it.

[Assistant] Wonderful. And your major was, did you say political science?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I was, uh, you know, I was, I was a, um, an avid reader and, um, my, at the time when I was filling out my, which I think, uh, when I was filling out my application for courses, I must have been reading. I used to go through like phases, like I would read all these French authors, or I would read all these Latin American authors. And I was reading maybe the Russian authors at the time. So I was heavily into Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky and some of these other Russian authors. So maybe that's why. And, you know, and I saw that they had Russian language and Russian studies, so I just decided to take it.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And then made a minor out of it.

[Assistant] Wonderful. And your major was, did you say political science?

[User] Political science.

[Assistant] Okay. And again at AU, did you have to work part time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then made a minor out of it.

[Assistant] Wonderful. And your major was, did you say political science?

[User] Political science.

[Assistant] Okay. And again at AU, did you have to work part time?

[User] I did, I did.

[Assistant] So what did you do there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did, I did.

[Assistant] So what did you do there?

[User] I worked at a church on, on the campus. So it was a, you know, ecumenical, um, office. And I worked there the whole time I was at AU.

[Assistant] Summertime too?

[User] No, no, just during the year and then during the summer, I'm trying to think, um. Well, I, uh, freshman, um, I think I went, oh, yeah, I went back to New York and I worked. So I had one, in one of my semesters, I did an internship on Capitol Hill, and then it also took me to New York City because I worked for the congressman. So I worked in New York City. And another one, I worked for the mayor's office. So I would go back to the city, to New York, to work.

[Assistant] And work there in the summers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I worked at a church on, on the campus. So it was a, you know, ecumenical, um, office. And I worked there the whole time I was at AU.

[Assistant] Summertime too?

[User] No, no, just during the year and then during the summer, I'm trying to think, um. Well, I, uh, freshman, um, I think I went, oh, yeah, I went back to New York and I worked. So I had one, in one of my semesters, I did an internship on Capitol Hill, and then it also took me to New York City because I worked for the congressman. So I worked in New York City. And another one, I worked for the mayor's office. So I would go back to the city, to New York, to work.

[Assistant] And work there in the summers.

[User] Summers, mm hmm.

[Assistant] Yeah. Which Congressman?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, just during the year and then during the summer, I'm trying to think, um. Well, I, uh, freshman, um, I think I went, oh, yeah, I went back to New York and I worked. So I had one, in one of my semesters, I did an internship on Capitol Hill, and then it also took me to New York City because I worked for the congressman. So I worked in New York City. And another one, I worked for the mayor's office. So I would go back to the city, to New York, to work.

[Assistant] And work there in the summers.

[User] Summers, mm hmm.

[Assistant] Yeah. Which Congressman?

[User] You know, I. Roberto Garcia. The name. Yeah, I don't remember. I mean, yeah, he eventually went to jail for some racketeering problem. I found it odd, I never saw him in the office the whole time I was there.

[Assistant] So that's an interesting part of your education too.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Summers, mm hmm.

[Assistant] Yeah. Which Congressman?

[User] You know, I. Roberto Garcia. The name. Yeah, I don't remember. I mean, yeah, he eventually went to jail for some racketeering problem. I found it odd, I never saw him in the office the whole time I was there.

[Assistant] So that's an interesting part of your education too.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And then, uh, eventually you went to the Peace Corps. Did you go to the Peace Corps immediately after?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And then, uh, eventually you went to the Peace Corps. Did you go to the Peace Corps immediately after?

[User] Well, I did apply to the Peace Corps. And actually, the reason I decided in the Peace Corps was because at American University, a lot of people, a lot of my friends, um. So I was in the political science department, but a lot of my friends were in the international relations department.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] And a lot of them went on to the Peace Corps. So that's where.

[Assistant] Okay. So, you knew people who were.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And a lot of them went on to the Peace Corps. So that's where.

[Assistant] Okay. So, you knew people who were.

[User] I knew people who had been in the Peace Corps or were going to Peace Corps. And then the whole Kennedy, you know, give back to your country, service. I mean, American University put a lot of emphasis on service. So, so I knew that that's what I was going to do after. And I did apply to Peace Corps, and I was accepted to go to, I believe it was Costa Rica, but it was to teach English and I didn't want to do that.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So I declined.

[Assistant] And when was that? When was that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I declined.

[Assistant] And when was that? When was that?

[User] That was May of 1985.

[Assistant] 1985.

[User] '85.

[Assistant] '85. And you were still a student at AU?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was May of 1985.

[Assistant] 1985.

[User] '85.

[Assistant] '85. And you were still a student at AU?

[User] I graduated in May of '85.

[Assistant] Okay. So right then when you graduated, you applied.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] '85.

[Assistant] '85. And you were still a student at AU?

[User] I graduated in May of '85.

[Assistant] Okay. So right then when you graduated, you applied.

[User] I had a, yeah.

[Assistant] Or you had applied and you were invited to Costa Rica. And you turned that down.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I graduated in May of '85.

[Assistant] Okay. So right then when you graduated, you applied.

[User] I had a, yeah.

[Assistant] Or you had applied and you were invited to Costa Rica. And you turned that down.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did they say anything to you about how, oh, if you turn down what we offer you, you might not ever get another invitation?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had a, yeah.

[Assistant] Or you had applied and you were invited to Costa Rica. And you turned that down.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did they say anything to you about how, oh, if you turn down what we offer you, you might not ever get another invitation?

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] Okay. So what did you tell them? How did you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did they say anything to you about how, oh, if you turn down what we offer you, you might not ever get another invitation?

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] Okay. So what did you tell them? How did you?

[User] No, I just said I choose to decline my offer.

[Assistant] You didn't tell them why?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I just said I choose to decline my offer.

[Assistant] You didn't tell them why?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Yeah, that.

[User] Yeah. I didn't.

[Assistant] You didn't want it. You wanted something else not teaching English.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. I didn't.

[Assistant] You didn't want it. You wanted something else not teaching English.

[User] Yes, I didn't think.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] Yeah, the teaching English just didn't, didn't seem to work.

[Assistant] Had they, in the application project, had they asked you for your preferences? Had they asked if there was any place you would not go to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, the teaching English just didn't, didn't seem to work.

[Assistant] Had they, in the application project, had they asked you for your preferences? Had they asked if there was any place you would not go to?

[User] No, no, that was pre, pre-choice. I mean, it wasn't. I mean, I had Spanish so you know they automatically put me in a Spanish speaking country.

[Assistant] Oh. Yeah.

[User] So yeah. I don't remember very much of that process. I know that the, my second time around I was very deliberate as to where I wanted to go.

[Assistant] Where you wanted to go and what you wanted to do.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, that was pre, pre-choice. I mean, it wasn't. I mean, I had Spanish so you know they automatically put me in a Spanish speaking country.

[Assistant] Oh. Yeah.

[User] So yeah. I don't remember very much of that process. I know that the, my second time around I was very deliberate as to where I wanted to go.

[Assistant] Where you wanted to go and what you wanted to do.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] So, um. So you decline the invitation to, to go to Costa Rica. And then what happened? Did you have to apply all over again?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, so, I mean a year's passed between that. So then I stayed, I worked in the Dominican Republic that following year.

[Assistant] Doing?

[User] Um, I worked at a hotel.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] Uh, and then I went to graduate school at Boston University.

[Assistant] Oh, you did?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, I worked at a hotel.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] Uh, and then I went to graduate school at Boston University.

[Assistant] Oh, you did?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And so you're now in Boston, at Boston University studying?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] International relations. Um, and then, my, uh, I did a two year program because I worked full time at the, at that time. And during the summer, I did an internship in the UN, in the Dominican Republic. And then I realized that I wanted to go work overseas. So when I graduated from BU the following May, I was trying to get overseas. And in one conversation with one potential employer, he was, you know, he showed me the stack of job applicants and, you know, talked to me about some of their qualifications. He says, you must have a plan B.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] And he goes, what's your plan B? And I said, well, I guess it's Peace Corps. He goes, well, you should, you know, put plan B into gear just in case.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Because a lot of the organizations would want me to stay in country, in, work in the United States in their home office for one to two years before they would send me overseas.

[Assistant] Okay. And you weren't sure you wanted to do that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I didn't want to do that. So I wanted to go overseas right away.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So I went home and I applied for the Peace Corps that day.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Second time.

[Assistant] Second time. Same, same application form, having to fill the whole thing out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I went home and I applied for the Peace Corps that day.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Second time.

[Assistant] Second time. Same, same application form, having to fill the whole thing out?

[User] But this time I selected the continent and the language.

[Assistant] Okay. So you said you wanted Africa.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I said I wanted Africa, or I wanted Nepal, whichever was first.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] And that I wanted French or, you know, another language. So I wanted to learn another language.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And then I wanted to go and experience another place.

[Assistant] Something radically different from what you were already comfortable in.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And that I wanted French or, you know, another language. So I wanted to learn another language.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And then I wanted to go and experience another place.

[Assistant] Something radically different from what you were already comfortable in.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Wow. What a character you have, so strong that you just really want to learn as much as you possibly can.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then I wanted to go and experience another place.

[Assistant] Something radically different from what you were already comfortable in.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Wow. What a character you have, so strong that you just really want to learn as much as you possibly can.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So this is now 1987, maybe?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Wow. What a character you have, so strong that you just really want to learn as much as you possibly can.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So this is now 1987, maybe?

[User] '88.

[Assistant] '88. And how long did it take before you got an invitation?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So this is now 1987, maybe?

[User] '88.

[Assistant] '88. And how long did it take before you got an invitation?

[User] So I didn't, uh, so this is, this is May. Um, this is June, June '88. So I applied and then I, uh, I was selected to go into training in March of '89.

[Assistant] Oh, that's a long time. So you had to fill all that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I didn't, uh, so this is, this is May. Um, this is June, June '88. So I applied and then I, uh, I was selected to go into training in March of '89.

[Assistant] Oh, that's a long time. So you had to fill all that.

[User] Mm hmm. Well, I was working in D.C. at that point, at that time.

[Assistant] In D.C.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. And what were you doing in D.C.?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm. Well, I was working in D.C. at that point, at that time.

[Assistant] In D.C.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. And what were you doing in D.C.?

[User] I was working at PAHO, Pan American Health Organization, just doing odd jobs.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Using Spanish?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. And what were you doing in D.C.?

[User] I was working at PAHO, Pan American Health Organization, just doing odd jobs.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Using Spanish?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Uh huh. Okay. Yeah. And, and now you have a master's degree in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was working at PAHO, Pan American Health Organization, just doing odd jobs.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Using Spanish?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Uh huh. Okay. Yeah. And, and now you have a master's degree in?

[User] International relations.

[Assistant] International relations. You're just so qualified to do so many things. I would think people would just zap you up. So. So you're, um, working in D.C. with a connection with, uh, Panama?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Uh huh. Okay. Yeah. And, and now you have a master's degree in?

[User] International relations.

[Assistant] International relations. You're just so qualified to do so many things. I would think people would just zap you up. So. So you're, um, working in D.C. with a connection with, uh, Panama?

[User] PAHO, which is the Pan American.

[Assistant] Oh, Pan American, not Panama, but Pan American Health Organization. Okay. And then in, did you say March of '89?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] International relations.

[Assistant] International relations. You're just so qualified to do so many things. I would think people would just zap you up. So. So you're, um, working in D.C. with a connection with, uh, Panama?

[User] PAHO, which is the Pan American.

[Assistant] Oh, Pan American, not Panama, but Pan American Health Organization. Okay. And then in, did you say March of '89?

[User] In March of '89.

[Assistant] You began training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In March of '89.

[Assistant] You began training?

[User] Began training in Frogmore, which is, uh, where you did the agricultural. You did like six, 6 or 8 weeks of agricultural training.

[Assistant] What's Frogmore?

[User] Frogmore is in, um, I don't know if it's South Carolina or North Carolina. It's close to Hilton Head, not very far from Hilton Head.

[Assistant] Island sort of?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Began training in Frogmore, which is, uh, where you did the agricultural. You did like six, 6 or 8 weeks of agricultural training.

[Assistant] What's Frogmore?

[User] Frogmore is in, um, I don't know if it's South Carolina or North Carolina. It's close to Hilton Head, not very far from Hilton Head.

[Assistant] Island sort of?

[User] Um, well, Frogmore, it's on the mainland. Hilton Head is on an island.

[Assistant] Okay, so near and coastal.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Frogmore is in, um, I don't know if it's South Carolina or North Carolina. It's close to Hilton Head, not very far from Hilton Head.

[Assistant] Island sort of?

[User] Um, well, Frogmore, it's on the mainland. Hilton Head is on an island.

[Assistant] Okay, so near and coastal.

[User] Yeah, yeah. And this is where Peace Corps would go and do their ag training.

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah. All right. So you were going to be an?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, well, Frogmore, it's on the mainland. Hilton Head is on an island.

[Assistant] Okay, so near and coastal.

[User] Yeah, yeah. And this is where Peace Corps would go and do their ag training.

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah. All right. So you were going to be an?

[User] Agricultural volunteer at this point.

[Assistant] Agricultural. But you didn't know exactly specifically. Did you know that it would be Mauritania?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah. And this is where Peace Corps would go and do their ag training.

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah. All right. So you were going to be an?

[User] Agricultural volunteer at this point.

[Assistant] Agricultural. But you didn't know exactly specifically. Did you know that it would be Mauritania?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You knew it would be Mauritania.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Agricultural volunteer at this point.

[Assistant] Agricultural. But you didn't know exactly specifically. Did you know that it would be Mauritania?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You knew it would be Mauritania.

[User] So everybody who went to, there were, uh, like 3 or 4 countries. And everybody who was doing ag, ag volunteer in Mauritania was in that training. Well, I think actually every, yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay. But also people going to different countries?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You knew it would be Mauritania.

[User] So everybody who went to, there were, uh, like 3 or 4 countries. And everybody who was doing ag, ag volunteer in Mauritania was in that training. Well, I think actually every, yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay. But also people going to different countries?

[User] Yeah. Tunisia. Um, yeah. There were a number of other countries.

[Assistant] All were francophone?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So everybody who went to, there were, uh, like 3 or 4 countries. And everybody who was doing ag, ag volunteer in Mauritania was in that training. Well, I think actually every, yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay. But also people going to different countries?

[User] Yeah. Tunisia. Um, yeah. There were a number of other countries.

[Assistant] All were francophone?

[User] Not really, no.

[Assistant] No. Okay. So you're not talking about culture or language at Frogmore?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Tunisia. Um, yeah. There were a number of other countries.

[Assistant] All were francophone?

[User] Not really, no.

[Assistant] No. Okay. So you're not talking about culture or language at Frogmore?

[User] No, yes, strictly technical.

[Assistant] Agriculture and, uh, learning the skills you'd need in agriculture. Something brand new.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, yes, strictly technical.

[Assistant] Agriculture and, uh, learning the skills you'd need in agriculture. Something brand new.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] For you.

[User] Yes. Yeah. It worked well.

[Assistant] Great. How long were you in Frogmore?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] For you.

[User] Yes. Yeah. It worked well.

[Assistant] Great. How long were you in Frogmore?

[User] You know, I think it was either 6 or 8 weeks. I can't remember.

[Assistant] How many volunteers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yeah. It worked well.

[Assistant] Great. How long were you in Frogmore?

[User] You know, I think it was either 6 or 8 weeks. I can't remember.

[Assistant] How many volunteers?

[User] Well, there were a lot. I mean, because it was not just the Mauritanias. So, um. I don't know. There were a lot of us. Yeah.

[Assistant] And what did you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I think it was either 6 or 8 weeks. I can't remember.

[Assistant] How many volunteers?

[User] Well, there were a lot. I mean, because it was not just the Mauritanias. So, um. I don't know. There were a lot of us. Yeah.

[Assistant] And what did you?

[User] So we did gardening. Yeah, just farming techniques and.

[Assistant] Organic farming? Or were they talking about fertilizers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So we did gardening. Yeah, just farming techniques and.

[Assistant] Organic farming? Or were they talking about fertilizers?

[User] No, they don't. Yeah, because I remember they did use fertilizer, because I remember I killed one of my plants because I put too much. Yeah. So, so it was not organic.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] But they're telling you how to do gardening, planting?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, they don't. Yeah, because I remember they did use fertilizer, because I remember I killed one of my plants because I put too much. Yeah. So, so it was not organic.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] But they're telling you how to do gardening, planting?

[User] Yeah. Um. Just that whole process and.

[Assistant] Uh, I'm thinking about how that might differ from country to country is the soil and the temperature, the climate and the soil differ in different places.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] But they're telling you how to do gardening, planting?

[User] Yeah. Um. Just that whole process and.

[Assistant] Uh, I'm thinking about how that might differ from country to country is the soil and the temperature, the climate and the soil differ in different places.

[User] Yeah. You know, but they didn't talk about the fact that where I was in Mauritania was very, it was the desert. So that wasn't, it wasn't brought up. I mean, we were farming in good. And yeah, it was, it was good. It was very different from where I was.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. So, but so, so you did that training and then you went to Mauritania?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Um. Just that whole process and.

[Assistant] Uh, I'm thinking about how that might differ from country to country is the soil and the temperature, the climate and the soil differ in different places.

[User] Yeah. You know, but they didn't talk about the fact that where I was in Mauritania was very, it was the desert. So that wasn't, it wasn't brought up. I mean, we were farming in good. And yeah, it was, it was good. It was very different from where I was.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. So, but so, so you did that training and then you went to Mauritania?

[User] And then we did more training. There was language and culture and some technical.

[Assistant] So, um, before we leave Frogmore, uh, where were you living? Were you in, uh?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then we did more training. There was language and culture and some technical.

[Assistant] So, um, before we leave Frogmore, uh, where were you living? Were you in, uh?

[User] We lived in a, in a house, a dorm.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] Yeah. Everybody lived together.

[Assistant] Okay. So, like, maybe it was sometimes used as a school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Everybody lived together.

[Assistant] Okay. So, like, maybe it was sometimes used as a school.

[User] Yeah. Mm hmm. I can't remember. I do remember us was doing a weekend family in the community.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Uh huh.

[Assistant] And that was for how long did you say?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Mm hmm. I can't remember. I do remember us was doing a weekend family in the community.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Uh huh.

[Assistant] And that was for how long did you say?

[User] It was 6 to 8 weeks.

[Assistant] 6 to 8 weeks. Okay. And then you all get on a plane somewhere?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh huh.

[Assistant] And that was for how long did you say?

[User] It was 6 to 8 weeks.

[Assistant] 6 to 8 weeks. Okay. And then you all get on a plane somewhere?

[User] In New York, out of New York to Mauritania via Paris.

[Assistant] Okay. So at this point, somewhere you have to say goodbye to your mom. You have this big family, and you're all very close. Did you then go home to your family?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was 6 to 8 weeks.

[Assistant] 6 to 8 weeks. Okay. And then you all get on a plane somewhere?

[User] In New York, out of New York to Mauritania via Paris.

[Assistant] Okay. So at this point, somewhere you have to say goodbye to your mom. You have this big family, and you're all very close. Did you then go home to your family?

[User] Yes. In the Dominican, in the Dominican Republic. At that point, my parents were living in the Dominican Republic.

[Assistant] Okay, so you went back to the Dominican Republic?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In New York, out of New York to Mauritania via Paris.

[Assistant] Okay. So at this point, somewhere you have to say goodbye to your mom. You have this big family, and you're all very close. Did you then go home to your family?

[User] Yes. In the Dominican, in the Dominican Republic. At that point, my parents were living in the Dominican Republic.

[Assistant] Okay, so you went back to the Dominican Republic?

[User]
Yes.

To see your parents, hug them with. Were they worried about you? You're going off to Africa.

I think my mom. My dad was like, good luck.

[Assistant] Okay. All right. He knew you to be the strong person that you are. Moms are, the job description of your mom is to worry. And your siblings? Um, what were they saying?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. In the Dominican, in the Dominican Republic. At that point, my parents were living in the Dominican Republic.

[Assistant] Okay, so you went back to the Dominican Republic?

[User]
Yes.

To see your parents, hug them with. Were they worried about you? You're going off to Africa.

I think my mom. My dad was like, good luck.

[Assistant] Okay. All right. He knew you to be the strong person that you are. Moms are, the job description of your mom is to worry. And your siblings? Um, what were they saying?

[User] You know, I mean, I have, my two sisters are world travelers, so that was fine. And then my brothers were like, oh, why are you going there? You know, they, nobody really knew anything about Mauritania.

[Assistant] Of course not. I would have had to look it up on a map.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Yes.

To see your parents, hug them with. Were they worried about you? You're going off to Africa.

I think my mom. My dad was like, good luck.

[Assistant] Okay. All right. He knew you to be the strong person that you are. Moms are, the job description of your mom is to worry. And your siblings? Um, what were they saying?

[User] You know, I mean, I have, my two sisters are world travelers, so that was fine. And then my brothers were like, oh, why are you going there? You know, they, nobody really knew anything about Mauritania.

[Assistant] Of course not. I would have had to look it up on a map.

[User] So did I.

[Assistant] So, so, um, and so you're, you get together with other volunteers in New York to fly over. How old were you then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I mean, I have, my two sisters are world travelers, so that was fine. And then my brothers were like, oh, why are you going there? You know, they, nobody really knew anything about Mauritania.

[Assistant] Of course not. I would have had to look it up on a map.

[User] So did I.

[Assistant] So, so, um, and so you're, you get together with other volunteers in New York to fly over. How old were you then?

[User] So I, um, so let's see. This is '91. 23.

[Assistant] You're 23, you've already got a master's degree under your belt, and you're in New York.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So did I.

[Assistant] So, so, um, and so you're, you get together with other volunteers in New York to fly over. How old were you then?

[User] So I, um, so let's see. This is '91. 23.

[Assistant] You're 23, you've already got a master's degree under your belt, and you're in New York.

[User] Or maybe 24, maybe 24.

[Assistant] Yeah. And it's 1989. Um, what month are we in now?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I, um, so let's see. This is '91. 23.

[Assistant] You're 23, you've already got a master's degree under your belt, and you're in New York.

[User] Or maybe 24, maybe 24.

[Assistant] Yeah. And it's 1989. Um, what month are we in now?

[User] Uh, we are June.

[Assistant] June, June of '89. And you all get on a plane. Was it a special chartered plane going only to Mauritania?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Or maybe 24, maybe 24.

[Assistant] Yeah. And it's 1989. Um, what month are we in now?

[User] Uh, we are June.

[Assistant] June, June of '89. And you all get on a plane. Was it a special chartered plane going only to Mauritania?

[User] No. It was, we went to Paris. So it was like a United or American.

[Assistant] Did Peace Corps staff go with you on the plane?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, we are June.

[Assistant] June, June of '89. And you all get on a plane. Was it a special chartered plane going only to Mauritania?

[User] No. It was, we went to Paris. So it was like a United or American.

[Assistant] Did Peace Corps staff go with you on the plane?

[User] There was a Peace Corps staff person.

[Assistant] Somebody accompanying you. Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. It was, we went to Paris. So it was like a United or American.

[Assistant] Did Peace Corps staff go with you on the plane?

[User] There was a Peace Corps staff person.

[Assistant] Somebody accompanying you. Okay.

[User] You know, maybe not. No, now that I mention it, now that I think about it. No, they were meeting us in Mauritania.

[Assistant] Oh, so you have to transfer planes in Paris without a Peace Corps staff sort of shepherding you from place to place?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was a Peace Corps staff person.

[Assistant] Somebody accompanying you. Okay.

[User] You know, maybe not. No, now that I mention it, now that I think about it. No, they were meeting us in Mauritania.

[Assistant] Oh, so you have to transfer planes in Paris without a Peace Corps staff sort of shepherding you from place to place?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] How many people were there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, maybe not. No, now that I mention it, now that I think about it. No, they were meeting us in Mauritania.

[Assistant] Oh, so you have to transfer planes in Paris without a Peace Corps staff sort of shepherding you from place to place?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] How many people were there?

[User] There were about 24 of us.

[Assistant] At the age of 23 or 24, were you older than most of them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] How many people were there?

[User] There were about 24 of us.

[Assistant] At the age of 23 or 24, were you older than most of them?

[User] Yeah. Most of them were 21, 22.

[Assistant] Okay. So fresh out of college?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were about 24 of us.

[Assistant] At the age of 23 or 24, were you older than most of them?

[User] Yeah. Most of them were 21, 22.

[Assistant] Okay. So fresh out of college?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And they're all, you're all supposed to take care of yourselves in a, in an airport where maybe people don't speak French.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Most of them were 21, 22.

[Assistant] Okay. So fresh out of college?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And they're all, you're all supposed to take care of yourselves in a, in an airport where maybe people don't speak French.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And find your way to an international.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And they're all, you're all supposed to take care of yourselves in a, in an airport where maybe people don't speak French.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And find your way to an international.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Uh, flight that's going, what now? From Paris.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And find your way to an international.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Uh, flight that's going, what now? From Paris.

[User] From Paris to Mauritania.

[Assistant] What's the name of the capital city?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Uh, flight that's going, what now? From Paris.

[User] From Paris to Mauritania.

[Assistant] What's the name of the capital city?

[User] Nouakchott.

[Assistant] Nouakchott. And did the, is there an airport there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] From Paris to Mauritania.

[Assistant] What's the name of the capital city?

[User] Nouakchott.

[Assistant] Nouakchott. And did the, is there an airport there?

[User] Yes. Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Was it a direct flight from Paris?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Nouakchott.

[Assistant] Nouakchott. And did the, is there an airport there?

[User] Yes. Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Was it a direct flight from Paris?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And um. So you get in, it's June and we're in West Africa. Mauritania. I'm trying to think, Mauritania is north of Senegal?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Was it a direct flight from Paris?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And um. So you get in, it's June and we're in West Africa. Mauritania. I'm trying to think, Mauritania is north of Senegal?

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Yeah. It's just where the continent begins to swing.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And um. So you get in, it's June and we're in West Africa. Mauritania. I'm trying to think, Mauritania is north of Senegal?

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Yeah. It's just where the continent begins to swing.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Um, Senegal is the westernmost point, and now we're beginning to swing around on, on that part of West Africa. Nouakchott. You get off the plane. Do you remember getting off the plane? Was it walking down?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Yeah. It's just where the continent begins to swing.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Um, Senegal is the westernmost point, and now we're beginning to swing around on, on that part of West Africa. Nouakchott. You get off the plane. Do you remember getting off the plane? Was it walking down?

[User] Yes. On the outside.

[Assistant] The outside. So right away you're hit with a.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Um, Senegal is the westernmost point, and now we're beginning to swing around on, on that part of West Africa. Nouakchott. You get off the plane. Do you remember getting off the plane? Was it walking down?

[User] Yes. On the outside.

[Assistant] The outside. So right away you're hit with a.

[User] A sandstorm.

[Assistant] Oh. Oh, I thought you were going to say heat. A sandstorm?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A sandstorm.

[Assistant] Oh. Oh, I thought you were going to say heat. A sandstorm?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] It was horrible.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was horrible.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So immediately.

[User] Immediately there was a sandstorm. And, uh, and so everybody's covered, you know, because apart from the fact that most, most people were covered because the Muslim country, because of the sandstorm, you know, even the women had their faces covered.

[Assistant] Yeah. Women and men.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So immediately.

[User] Immediately there was a sandstorm. And, uh, and so everybody's covered, you know, because apart from the fact that most, most people were covered because the Muslim country, because of the sandstorm, you know, even the women had their faces covered.

[Assistant] Yeah. Women and men.

[User] And men.

[Assistant] Would have their faces covered. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Immediately there was a sandstorm. And, uh, and so everybody's covered, you know, because apart from the fact that most, most people were covered because the Muslim country, because of the sandstorm, you know, even the women had their faces covered.

[Assistant] Yeah. Women and men.

[User] And men.

[Assistant] Would have their faces covered. Yeah.

[User] So that was. Yeah.

[Assistant] But you didn't have, your faces weren't covered.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And men.

[Assistant] Would have their faces covered. Yeah.

[User] So that was. Yeah.

[Assistant] But you didn't have, your faces weren't covered.

[User] No, we didn't, we. Yeah. That was a mistake.

[Assistant] Whoa. Maybe somebody in New York could have mentioned that to you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But, um. Yeah, but that was a, you know, that was like the first shock that the fact that everybody was covered, you couldn't see people's faces. So, you know, and certainly for me, coming from New York City, where, you know, it's so important to see who you're seeing.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] And only the thieves would cover themselves. So that was the initial. That was the first, I remember feeling that image of the bandits with their.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I do remember feeling shocked.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and then you're in the airport. You have to go through, uh, immigration and.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And only the thieves would cover themselves. So that was the initial. That was the first, I remember feeling that image of the bandits with their.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I do remember feeling shocked.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and then you're in the airport. You have to go through, uh, immigration and.

[User] Yeah, by that point we did have, um, Peace Corps volunteers who were there and Peace Corps staff.

[Assistant] Yes. Yeah. But sometimes that's not the most efficient of things. And you have to get all your luggage and make sure everybody's got their stuff. Um, and among your group, um. What did you say, there were 20, 20?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I do remember feeling shocked.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and then you're in the airport. You have to go through, uh, immigration and.

[User] Yeah, by that point we did have, um, Peace Corps volunteers who were there and Peace Corps staff.

[Assistant] Yes. Yeah. But sometimes that's not the most efficient of things. And you have to get all your luggage and make sure everybody's got their stuff. Um, and among your group, um. What did you say, there were 20, 20?

[User] About 26 of us.

[Assistant] 26 of you. Um, was it a mixture of men and women?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, by that point we did have, um, Peace Corps volunteers who were there and Peace Corps staff.

[Assistant] Yes. Yeah. But sometimes that's not the most efficient of things. And you have to get all your luggage and make sure everybody's got their stuff. Um, and among your group, um. What did you say, there were 20, 20?

[User] About 26 of us.

[Assistant] 26 of you. Um, was it a mixture of men and women?

[User] Men and women, yes.

[Assistant] Um, and, um, any married couples?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] About 26 of us.

[Assistant] 26 of you. Um, was it a mixture of men and women?

[User] Men and women, yes.

[Assistant] Um, and, um, any married couples?

[User] There were, there were, uh, two. Two that I remember.

[Assistant] So then what happened? You get off. You're dead tired.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Men and women, yes.

[Assistant] Um, and, um, any married couples?

[User] There were, there were, uh, two. Two that I remember.

[Assistant] So then what happened? You get off. You're dead tired.

[User] Yeah. Get off the bus. Get off the plane

[Assistant] You didn't sleep?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were, there were, uh, two. Two that I remember.

[Assistant] So then what happened? You get off. You're dead tired.

[User] Yeah. Get off the bus. Get off the plane

[Assistant] You didn't sleep?

[User] Yeah. No, we did not.

[Assistant] So you're exhausted.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Get off the bus. Get off the plane

[Assistant] You didn't sleep?

[User] Yeah. No, we did not.

[Assistant] So you're exhausted.

[User] And, uh. And we arrive in.

[Assistant] You arrive at?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, uh. And we arrive in.

[Assistant] You arrive at?

[User] In Nouakchott. It's during the day. So we arrived in the morning because it was an old flight. Um, an all night flight. Uh, well, the first thing was you notice, you know, the boys were sent to one side. The girls were sent to another.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Yeah. Um, and then.

[Assistant] Of a hotel lobby?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Nouakchott. It's during the day. So we arrived in the morning because it was an old flight. Um, an all night flight. Uh, well, the first thing was you notice, you know, the boys were sent to one side. The girls were sent to another.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Yeah. Um, and then.

[Assistant] Of a hotel lobby?

[User] No, no, this is the airport.

[Assistant] Oh. Even in the airport, they separated the men from the women?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Um, and then.

[Assistant] Of a hotel lobby?

[User] No, no, this is the airport.

[Assistant] Oh. Even in the airport, they separated the men from the women?

[User] Mm hmm. Um, yeah. And then just, uh.

[Assistant] Even married couples had to split up?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Huh.

[User] And then, and then there was an emphasis on, on it being a dry country. So make sure that you didn't have any alcohol.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Um, yeah. And then the Peace Corps people picked us up on the other side. We got on a bus and then we went to the Peace Corps house.

[Assistant] Ah. What's that like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then, and then there was an emphasis on, on it being a dry country. So make sure that you didn't have any alcohol.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Um, yeah. And then the Peace Corps people picked us up on the other side. We got on a bus and then we went to the Peace Corps house.

[Assistant] Ah. What's that like?

[User] That, you know, it was just one big block of cement. I mean, it was nothing. All the houses were either brown or maroon, surrounded by dunes.

[Assistant] Wow. Even in the capital city?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, yeah. And then the Peace Corps people picked us up on the other side. We got on a bus and then we went to the Peace Corps house.

[Assistant] Ah. What's that like?

[User] That, you know, it was just one big block of cement. I mean, it was nothing. All the houses were either brown or maroon, surrounded by dunes.

[Assistant] Wow. Even in the capital city?

[User] Yes. Yeah. And maybe there was one tree inside the compound. So all the houses were, had high walls built on the outside, you know, so you had to go through a door and then there was a guard.

[Assistant] Okay. And the high wall was a concrete block wall?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yeah. And maybe there was one tree inside the compound. So all the houses were, had high walls built on the outside, you know, so you had to go through a door and then there was a guard.

[Assistant] Okay. And the high wall was a concrete block wall?

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Painted brown.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So you went into such a gate in a wall and you found yourself in a compound with maybe a tree in it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Painted brown.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So you went into such a gate in a wall and you found yourself in a compound with maybe a tree in it.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Okay. And then, so it's still late morning, lunchtime maybe.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Okay. And then, so it's still late morning, lunchtime maybe.

[User] Yeah. And then that was, um, you know, sitting on the floor eating. They started, you know, talking about you eat with your hand, with your right hand, not your left hand. You have to wash your hands before you eat.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, and the way you have to sit in terms for women sitting properly and making sure you don't put your feet out or your knees. So it's, you know, very kind of covered up. And, you know, right away that whole cross-cultural started just because of the importance of having your legs covered.

[Assistant] From the very beginning.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And then that was, um, you know, sitting on the floor eating. They started, you know, talking about you eat with your hand, with your right hand, not your left hand. You have to wash your hands before you eat.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, and the way you have to sit in terms for women sitting properly and making sure you don't put your feet out or your knees. So it's, you know, very kind of covered up. And, you know, right away that whole cross-cultural started just because of the importance of having your legs covered.

[Assistant] From the very beginning.

[User] Yeah, you know, overall, I think Peace Corps does a good job.

[Assistant] Okay. All right. What were you eating?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, and the way you have to sit in terms for women sitting properly and making sure you don't put your feet out or your knees. So it's, you know, very kind of covered up. And, you know, right away that whole cross-cultural started just because of the importance of having your legs covered.

[Assistant] From the very beginning.

[User] Yeah, you know, overall, I think Peace Corps does a good job.

[Assistant] Okay. All right. What were you eating?

[User] So it was rice and maybe fish with, um. Um, well, either fish with that peanut sauce or chicken and couscous, but everything was in one bowl.

[Assistant] And you all reached?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, you know, overall, I think Peace Corps does a good job.

[Assistant] Okay. All right. What were you eating?

[User] So it was rice and maybe fish with, um. Um, well, either fish with that peanut sauce or chicken and couscous, but everything was in one bowl.

[Assistant] And you all reached?

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Into it. How do you pick up couscous or rice with your fingers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it was rice and maybe fish with, um. Um, well, either fish with that peanut sauce or chicken and couscous, but everything was in one bowl.

[Assistant] And you all reached?

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Into it. How do you pick up couscous or rice with your fingers?

[User] Well, you pick up, um, you grab with your hand and then you make a ball. So you have to squeeze, squeeze, squeeze.

[Assistant] Oh, so, you're squeezing the couscous or the rice to make a ball?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Into it. How do you pick up couscous or rice with your fingers?

[User] Well, you pick up, um, you grab with your hand and then you make a ball. So you have to squeeze, squeeze, squeeze.

[Assistant] Oh, so, you're squeezing the couscous or the rice to make a ball?

[User] To make a ball. And then you put it in your mouth.

[Assistant] And you somehow, what, do you make a depression with your thumb to pick up some meat?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you pick up, um, you grab with your hand and then you make a ball. So you have to squeeze, squeeze, squeeze.

[Assistant] Oh, so, you're squeezing the couscous or the rice to make a ball?

[User] To make a ball. And then you put it in your mouth.

[Assistant] And you somehow, what, do you make a depression with your thumb to pick up some meat?

[User] No, that's all the same pickup.

[Assistant] Oh, wow. Okay, so your hand gets kind of full of rice and.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] To make a ball. And then you put it in your mouth.

[Assistant] And you somehow, what, do you make a depression with your thumb to pick up some meat?

[User] No, that's all the same pickup.

[Assistant] Oh, wow. Okay, so your hand gets kind of full of rice and.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] In the process of this. Can you lick your fingers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] In the process of this. Can you lick your fingers?

[User] No.

[Assistant] No?

[User] Because you have, no, because you have to put your hand back in the bowl.

[Assistant] Back in. That's right, that's right. Of course, it wouldn't be hygienic.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] No?

[User] Because you have, no, because you have to put your hand back in the bowl.

[Assistant] Back in. That's right, that's right. Of course, it wouldn't be hygienic.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Oh, boy. I'm thinking of all the bad habits I'd have to break if it were me. So you're all sitting around in circles? One great big circle or small group?