[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes. That was really sad, because with her child dying. Oh, that was really awful.

[Assistant] Was that something that you discussed behind closed doors?

[User] Oh yes, we thought that was the most egregious thing that ever happened. We just couldn’t believe it could happen, and then boom boom boom. [The divorces started like dominos falling.]

[Assistant] I think in Lily’s book she talks about how you closed ranks in opening your meetings to the second wives. Do you remember much about that?

[User] I think we finally did have—[L.] Gordon Cooper’s second wife came to some of our meetings. I don’t remember why. I wasn’t even there. Where was I? It must have been that third group was still there maybe, and they had her. The first two wives’ groups didn’t ever welcome the second wives.

[Assistant] Did you ever get together just as the second wives and do things together as a group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes, we thought that was the most egregious thing that ever happened. We just couldn’t believe it could happen, and then boom boom boom. [The divorces started like dominos falling.]

[Assistant] I think in Lily’s book she talks about how you closed ranks in opening your meetings to the second wives. Do you remember much about that?

[User] I think we finally did have—[L.] Gordon Cooper’s second wife came to some of our meetings. I don’t remember why. I wasn’t even there. Where was I? It must have been that third group was still there maybe, and they had her. The first two wives’ groups didn’t ever welcome the second wives.

[Assistant] Did you ever get together just as the second wives and do things together as a group?

[User] I think that there were times. Going for launches, they would be there and we would be there. We would be at the parties together, but we never got to know them. I don’t think. I think I kind of got to know Gordon Cooper’s wife a little bit when we were in California, but that was many years later.

[Assistant] One of the things I noticed that was missing from Lily’s book was the selection of the scientist astronauts. It included the pilots that were selected but kind of overlooked those two groups of scientist-astronaut wives.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think we finally did have—[L.] Gordon Cooper’s second wife came to some of our meetings. I don’t remember why. I wasn’t even there. Where was I? It must have been that third group was still there maybe, and they had her. The first two wives’ groups didn’t ever welcome the second wives.

[Assistant] Did you ever get together just as the second wives and do things together as a group?

[User] I think that there were times. Going for launches, they would be there and we would be there. We would be at the parties together, but we never got to know them. I don’t think. I think I kind of got to know Gordon Cooper’s wife a little bit when we were in California, but that was many years later.

[Assistant] One of the things I noticed that was missing from Lily’s book was the selection of the scientist astronauts. It included the pilots that were selected but kind of overlooked those two groups of scientist-astronaut wives.

[User] Yes, that’s true.

[Assistant] I was curious. Were they ever a part of your group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think that there were times. Going for launches, they would be there and we would be there. We would be at the parties together, but we never got to know them. I don’t think. I think I kind of got to know Gordon Cooper’s wife a little bit when we were in California, but that was many years later.

[Assistant] One of the things I noticed that was missing from Lily’s book was the selection of the scientist astronauts. It included the pilots that were selected but kind of overlooked those two groups of scientist-astronaut wives.

[User] Yes, that’s true.

[Assistant] I was curious. Were they ever a part of your group?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Because they were so different, were they—


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, that’s true.

[Assistant] I was curious. Were they ever a part of your group?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Because they were so different, were they—

[User] Yes, they did come, of course.

[Assistant] What about the MOL [Manned Orbiting Laboratory] wives, when they came? They were selected in what, 1969? They were kind of latecomers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When were they selected?

[Assistant] In ’69.

[User] I should have met them. I guess I did. But I don’t remember much about it. Because we left there right after Skylab, after we got back from trips that we made. Those trips were really fabulous that we made, round the world trips. They were great.

[Assistant] I bet.

[User] Meeting all the heads of state everywhere we went and gave them a little piece of the Moon, a little crumb in a Lucite case.

[Assistant] How many world tours did you go on?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I should have met them. I guess I did. But I don’t remember much about it. Because we left there right after Skylab, after we got back from trips that we made. Those trips were really fabulous that we made, round the world trips. They were great.

[Assistant] I bet.

[User] Meeting all the heads of state everywhere we went and gave them a little piece of the Moon, a little crumb in a Lucite case.

[Assistant] How many world tours did you go on?

[User] Actually I went on two world tours and then after that just more little jaunts here and there, not round the world.

[Assistant] You went after Gemini V, is that correct?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Meeting all the heads of state everywhere we went and gave them a little piece of the Moon, a little crumb in a Lucite case.

[Assistant] How many world tours did you go on?

[User] Actually I went on two world tours and then after that just more little jaunts here and there, not round the world.

[Assistant] You went after Gemini V, is that correct?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] [President] Lyndon [B.] Johnson sent Pete and Cooper on that tour and you went with them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Actually I went on two world tours and then after that just more little jaunts here and there, not round the world.

[Assistant] You went after Gemini V, is that correct?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] [President] Lyndon [B.] Johnson sent Pete and Cooper on that tour and you went with them?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Where did you go? I think Lily talked about you going to Africa in one of the stories, but I was curious where else you visited.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] [President] Lyndon [B.] Johnson sent Pete and Cooper on that tour and you went with them?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Where did you go? I think Lily talked about you going to Africa in one of the stories, but I was curious where else you visited.

[User] I get those two long trips kind of mixed up. I know we went to some of the same places. We went twice to the Canary Islands but maybe that was because it was where they needed to refuel. I don’t know. Let me see if I can find that book. One of the books got lost when we moved here, which I’m so sorry about, because it was a party before the Apollo 12 launch. Jimmy Stewart and his wife were there and a lot of other celebrity people were there. I don’t know how it got lost. Let’s see. I think this was my memoir that I wrote, but I’ve never done anything with it.

[Assistant] Have your sons read your memoir?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes. No, I guess they haven’t read it. I’m thinking about the first book that was published. My son self-published it for me for a Christmas present. I was so surprised, because here comes this big box with my book in it. He found a picture of my dad to put on the cover. It was really neat.

[Assistant] Wonderful.

[User] A wonderful present.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] Let’s see. Jerry, the Moon [Men, and Me]. What was he? NASA man. I don’t know what all this is. This was another Timber Cove neighbor that had a quite important [career]. I don’t know what he did there, but he was somebody at NASA.

[Assistant] I think we interviewed [him].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A wonderful present.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] Let’s see. Jerry, the Moon [Men, and Me]. What was he? NASA man. I don’t know what all this is. This was another Timber Cove neighbor that had a quite important [career]. I don’t know what he did there, but he was somebody at NASA.

[Assistant] I think we interviewed [him].

[User] I’m trying to find some of those pictures but I don’t know where I’ve put all my [stuff]. I had to give away 400 books when we moved, because there were no bookcases.

[Assistant] Oh, I understand that. Is it Jerry Hammack?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Let’s see. Jerry, the Moon [Men, and Me]. What was he? NASA man. I don’t know what all this is. This was another Timber Cove neighbor that had a quite important [career]. I don’t know what he did there, but he was somebody at NASA.

[Assistant] I think we interviewed [him].

[User] I’m trying to find some of those pictures but I don’t know where I’ve put all my [stuff]. I had to give away 400 books when we moved, because there were no bookcases.

[Assistant] Oh, I understand that. Is it Jerry Hammack?

[User] Friendship. What is this?

[Assistant] Can I help you, Jane?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I’m trying to find some of those pictures but I don’t know where I’ve put all my [stuff]. I had to give away 400 books when we moved, because there were no bookcases.

[Assistant] Oh, I understand that. Is it Jerry Hammack?

[User] Friendship. What is this?

[Assistant] Can I help you, Jane?

[User] I think I got it.

[Assistant] You got it. Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think I got it.

[Assistant] You got it. Okay.

[User] Let me see what is this. It says friendships. Does this one say friendship?

[Assistant] Friendship 81.

[User] What was that? Oh no, that was with McDonnell Douglas. This has to be it. This one is Life magazine pictures.

[Assistant] I love looking at these old pictures. [Flips through Life photos]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Let me see what is this. It says friendships. Does this one say friendship?

[Assistant] Friendship 81.

[User] What was that? Oh no, that was with McDonnell Douglas. This has to be it. This one is Life magazine pictures.

[Assistant] I love looking at these old pictures. [Flips through Life photos]

[User] Isn’t that fun? I love to too.

[Assistant]
What is that from?

These are some of the Life photos, right?

Oh yes.

You look so young to have four kids. How old were you here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] What was that? Oh no, that was with McDonnell Douglas. This has to be it. This one is Life magazine pictures.

[Assistant] I love looking at these old pictures. [Flips through Life photos]

[User] Isn’t that fun? I love to too.

[Assistant]
What is that from?

These are some of the Life photos, right?

Oh yes.

You look so young to have four kids. How old were you here?

[User] Probably 35, I don’t know.

[Assistant] You don’t look 35. You look so young.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Isn’t that fun? I love to too.

[Assistant]
What is that from?

These are some of the Life photos, right?

Oh yes.

You look so young to have four kids. How old were you here?

[User] Probably 35, I don’t know.

[Assistant] You don’t look 35. You look so young.

[User] Here’s the guy, the 65.

[Assistant]
Oh my gosh. Wow. Your Hi-C in the back.

Those are wonderful.

I know. You had four boys. How hard was it to find somebody who would watch them? I really have to ask. I have one, and I can’t find anybody to watch him.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably 35, I don’t know.

[Assistant] You don’t look 35. You look so young.

[User] Here’s the guy, the 65.

[Assistant]
Oh my gosh. Wow. Your Hi-C in the back.

Those are wonderful.

I know. You had four boys. How hard was it to find somebody who would watch them? I really have to ask. I have one, and I can’t find anybody to watch him.

[User] I don’t know. When we went on the longest world trip my cousin came, and before we got back she went into labor so they had to farm the kids out with other people in the neighborhood.

[Assistant] Oh my gosh, [Pete] cut their hair.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Here’s the guy, the 65.

[Assistant]
Oh my gosh. Wow. Your Hi-C in the back.

Those are wonderful.

I know. You had four boys. How hard was it to find somebody who would watch them? I really have to ask. I have one, and I can’t find anybody to watch him.

[User] I don’t know. When we went on the longest world trip my cousin came, and before we got back she went into labor so they had to farm the kids out with other people in the neighborhood.

[Assistant] Oh my gosh, [Pete] cut their hair.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant]
That’s funny.

Those are wonderful.

These are great. That’s nice that they shared them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t know. When we went on the longest world trip my cousin came, and before we got back she went into labor so they had to farm the kids out with other people in the neighborhood.

[Assistant] Oh my gosh, [Pete] cut their hair.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant]
That’s funny.

Those are wonderful.

These are great. That’s nice that they shared them.

[User] That’s my dad.

[Assistant] Is that out at the ranch or is that at your place?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant]
That’s funny.

Those are wonderful.

These are great. That’s nice that they shared them.

[User] That’s my dad.

[Assistant] Is that out at the ranch or is that at your place?

[User] No, that’s our place.

[Assistant] You must have had your hands full, seriously, with all those kids. It’s a great picture of you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That’s my dad.

[Assistant] Is that out at the ranch or is that at your place?

[User] No, that’s our place.

[Assistant] You must have had your hands full, seriously, with all those kids. It’s a great picture of you.

[User] This is where we watch the launch and see.

[Assistant] You went out for the Apollo 12 launch, correct?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This is where we watch the launch and see.

[Assistant] You went out for the Apollo 12 launch, correct?

[User] Yes, I haven’t looked at these pictures for years.

[Assistant] I bet.

[User] That’s why I’m hanging over your shoulder.

[Assistant] Oh, that’s cute.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I haven’t looked at these pictures for years.

[Assistant] I bet.

[User] That’s why I’m hanging over your shoulder.

[Assistant] Oh, that’s cute.

[User] This guy, [my son], is a United Airlines pilot.

[Assistant] Oh, followed in his dad’s footsteps, huh?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That’s why I’m hanging over your shoulder.

[Assistant] Oh, that’s cute.

[User] This guy, [my son], is a United Airlines pilot.

[Assistant] Oh, followed in his dad’s footsteps, huh?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did he also go into the Navy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This guy, [my son], is a United Airlines pilot.

[Assistant] Oh, followed in his dad’s footsteps, huh?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did he also go into the Navy?

[User] No, he went to Embry-Riddle, where they teach you to fly to become an airline pilot. It’s a four-year college but it’s with emphasis on [flying].

[Assistant] Is this part of the world tour?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did he also go into the Navy?

[User] No, he went to Embry-Riddle, where they teach you to fly to become an airline pilot. It’s a four-year college but it’s with emphasis on [flying].

[Assistant] Is this part of the world tour?

[User] Oh, that was the first one of our trips that we made. This was an ambassador.

[Assistant] That’s quite a difference. Nobody wearing shoes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, he went to Embry-Riddle, where they teach you to fly to become an airline pilot. It’s a four-year college but it’s with emphasis on [flying].

[Assistant] Is this part of the world tour?

[User] Oh, that was the first one of our trips that we made. This was an ambassador.

[Assistant] That’s quite a difference. Nobody wearing shoes.

[User] Oh yes, they’re all barefoot.

[Assistant] Oh, are these those cats that you were talking about?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, that was the first one of our trips that we made. This was an ambassador.

[Assistant] That’s quite a difference. Nobody wearing shoes.

[User] Oh yes, they’re all barefoot.

[Assistant] Oh, are these those cats that you were talking about?

[User] That was Haile Selassie’s palace. He gave me a purse, which has real leopard skin on it. Which now is very fashionable.

[Assistant] I bet. Do you still have it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes, they’re all barefoot.

[Assistant] Oh, are these those cats that you were talking about?

[User] That was Haile Selassie’s palace. He gave me a purse, which has real leopard skin on it. Which now is very fashionable.

[Assistant] I bet. Do you still have it?

[User] Oh yes. This was our doctor. That’s Jomo Kenyatta.

[Assistant] Who’s the physician? Do you remember?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was Haile Selassie’s palace. He gave me a purse, which has real leopard skin on it. Which now is very fashionable.

[Assistant] I bet. Do you still have it?

[User] Oh yes. This was our doctor. That’s Jomo Kenyatta.

[Assistant] Who’s the physician? Do you remember?

[User] This was Chuck Berry.

[Assistant]
Chuck Berry, okay, didn’t recognize him.

It’s because he’s young there.

That’s probably why. I’ve seen older photos of Chuck.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes. This was our doctor. That’s Jomo Kenyatta.

[Assistant] Who’s the physician? Do you remember?

[User] This was Chuck Berry.

[Assistant]
Chuck Berry, okay, didn’t recognize him.

It’s because he’s young there.

That’s probably why. I’ve seen older photos of Chuck.

[User] Yes, everybody’s [older].

[Assistant] Everybody was young then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This was Chuck Berry.

[Assistant]
Chuck Berry, okay, didn’t recognize him.

It’s because he’s young there.

That’s probably why. I’ve seen older photos of Chuck.

[User] Yes, everybody’s [older].

[Assistant] Everybody was young then.

[User] Of course.

[Assistant] Did you receive any sort of cultural training before you went on the world tour?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, everybody’s [older].

[Assistant] Everybody was young then.

[User] Of course.

[Assistant] Did you receive any sort of cultural training before you went on the world tour?

[User] Yes. We spent two days in the State Department learning about the countries we would go to, and what things to do and not do.

[Assistant] I bet there was quite a few things. Certain hand signals and things.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Of course.

[Assistant] Did you receive any sort of cultural training before you went on the world tour?

[User] Yes. We spent two days in the State Department learning about the countries we would go to, and what things to do and not do.

[Assistant] I bet there was quite a few things. Certain hand signals and things.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Did you go the same places that the guys went, or did the wives do other things?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. We spent two days in the State Department learning about the countries we would go to, and what things to do and not do.

[Assistant] I bet there was quite a few things. Certain hand signals and things.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Did you go the same places that the guys went, or did the wives do other things?

[User] Sometimes they had separate press conferences, but otherwise we were always together. There’s Haile Selassie and Jomo Kenyatta.

[Assistant] Were the swords given to the crew?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Did you go the same places that the guys went, or did the wives do other things?

[User] Sometimes they had separate press conferences, but otherwise we were always together. There’s Haile Selassie and Jomo Kenyatta.

[Assistant] Were the swords given to the crew?

[User] No, but somebody, I forget who it was, maybe Haile Selassie gave him a beautiful—it was more like a dagger with lots of jewels in it. Of course we had to give it back.

[Assistant] Right, yes, those were state gifts, right? Not personal gifts.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sometimes they had separate press conferences, but otherwise we were always together. There’s Haile Selassie and Jomo Kenyatta.

[Assistant] Were the swords given to the crew?

[User] No, but somebody, I forget who it was, maybe Haile Selassie gave him a beautiful—it was more like a dagger with lots of jewels in it. Of course we had to give it back.

[Assistant] Right, yes, those were state gifts, right? Not personal gifts.

[User] Anything that’s over $50 you have to give back.

[Assistant] Is that it? Is that a lion? That is a lion.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, but somebody, I forget who it was, maybe Haile Selassie gave him a beautiful—it was more like a dagger with lots of jewels in it. Of course we had to give it back.

[Assistant] Right, yes, those were state gifts, right? Not personal gifts.

[User] Anything that’s over $50 you have to give back.

[Assistant] Is that it? Is that a lion? That is a lion.

[User] That is.

[Assistant] You walked past this lion?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Anything that’s over $50 you have to give back.

[Assistant] Is that it? Is that a lion? That is a lion.

[User] That is.

[Assistant] You walked past this lion?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant]
That’s crazy.

That’s amazing. I think I would have been shaking a little bit in my shoes. This must have been Skylab, much later.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That is.

[Assistant] You walked past this lion?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant]
That’s crazy.

That’s amazing. I think I would have been shaking a little bit in my shoes. This must have been Skylab, much later.

[User] I can’t remember when that was taken.

[Assistant] I think I’ve seen the pictures of you. You had long hair.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant]
That’s crazy.

That’s amazing. I think I would have been shaking a little bit in my shoes. This must have been Skylab, much later.

[User] I can’t remember when that was taken.

[Assistant] I think I’ve seen the pictures of you. You had long hair.

[User] The kids are bigger. I don’t know what all that stuff is.

[Assistant]
I love these dresses.

Very Jackie O.

Yes.

Or Jackie Kennedy at that time. We’re talking about the styles of those dresses.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I can’t remember when that was taken.

[Assistant] I think I’ve seen the pictures of you. You had long hair.

[User] The kids are bigger. I don’t know what all that stuff is.

[Assistant]
I love these dresses.

Very Jackie O.

Yes.

Or Jackie Kennedy at that time. We’re talking about the styles of those dresses.

[User] This was the king and queen of Greece. Wonder what this thing is, something I wrote obviously, and it’s also about, “They were taken to the LRL [Lunar Receiving Lab].

[Assistant] Maybe that was your memories after the Apollo 12 mission.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The kids are bigger. I don’t know what all that stuff is.

[Assistant]
I love these dresses.

Very Jackie O.

Yes.

Or Jackie Kennedy at that time. We’re talking about the styles of those dresses.

[User] This was the king and queen of Greece. Wonder what this thing is, something I wrote obviously, and it’s also about, “They were taken to the LRL [Lunar Receiving Lab].

[Assistant] Maybe that was your memories after the Apollo 12 mission.

[User] Must be. I said, “Pete had a ball bounding nearly weightless on the Moon. He weighed 15 pounds. He was singing, ‘I was walking on the Moon one day.’”

[Assistant]
I’ve seen the video of that.

I love that bikini. That is so iconic of the ’60s. That type of bikini.

After four kids.

Yes, that’s impressive, four children and still looking like that and being able to wear a bikini.

No kidding.

I don’t think I would wear one today. It’s funny how they just label everything “astronaut wives.” There’s not much detail there, “astronaut wives.”

I guess Life magazine.

Yes, on the back [they just labeled them] “astronaut wives.”


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This was the king and queen of Greece. Wonder what this thing is, something I wrote obviously, and it’s also about, “They were taken to the LRL [Lunar Receiving Lab].

[Assistant] Maybe that was your memories after the Apollo 12 mission.

[User] Must be. I said, “Pete had a ball bounding nearly weightless on the Moon. He weighed 15 pounds. He was singing, ‘I was walking on the Moon one day.’”

[Assistant]
I’ve seen the video of that.

I love that bikini. That is so iconic of the ’60s. That type of bikini.

After four kids.

Yes, that’s impressive, four children and still looking like that and being able to wear a bikini.

No kidding.

I don’t think I would wear one today. It’s funny how they just label everything “astronaut wives.” There’s not much detail there, “astronaut wives.”

I guess Life magazine.

Yes, on the back [they just labeled them] “astronaut wives.”

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] There’s other people in the photo.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Must be. I said, “Pete had a ball bounding nearly weightless on the Moon. He weighed 15 pounds. He was singing, ‘I was walking on the Moon one day.’”

[Assistant]
I’ve seen the video of that.

I love that bikini. That is so iconic of the ’60s. That type of bikini.

After four kids.

Yes, that’s impressive, four children and still looking like that and being able to wear a bikini.

No kidding.

I don’t think I would wear one today. It’s funny how they just label everything “astronaut wives.” There’s not much detail there, “astronaut wives.”

I guess Life magazine.

Yes, on the back [they just labeled them] “astronaut wives.”

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] There’s other people in the photo.

[User] This must be something that I wrote that I didn’t ever do anything with. What is this?

[Assistant] You can tell it’s one of those homes [in Clear Lake] because of those rafters.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] There’s other people in the photo.

[User] This must be something that I wrote that I didn’t ever do anything with. What is this?

[Assistant] You can tell it’s one of those homes [in Clear Lake] because of those rafters.

[User] I think I wrote this to my mother, and she saved it. It says, “This summer has been really busy. Luckily, because I haven’t had time to brood about the fear for Pete’s flight which is just two weeks away.”

[Assistant] I bet you had to have nerves of steel during that time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This must be something that I wrote that I didn’t ever do anything with. What is this?

[Assistant] You can tell it’s one of those homes [in Clear Lake] because of those rafters.

[User] I think I wrote this to my mother, and she saved it. It says, “This summer has been really busy. Luckily, because I haven’t had time to brood about the fear for Pete’s flight which is just two weeks away.”

[Assistant] I bet you had to have nerves of steel during that time.

[User] Luckily I was young. I couldn’t take it today.

[Assistant]
It’s a lot different when we’re younger. We don’t worry as much.

You don’t think through all the ramifications of something happening. But with four kids.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think I wrote this to my mother, and she saved it. It says, “This summer has been really busy. Luckily, because I haven’t had time to brood about the fear for Pete’s flight which is just two weeks away.”

[Assistant] I bet you had to have nerves of steel during that time.

[User] Luckily I was young. I couldn’t take it today.

[Assistant]
It’s a lot different when we’re younger. We don’t worry as much.

You don’t think through all the ramifications of something happening. But with four kids.

[User] Kept me busy.

[Assistant] Were you active at all in their school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Luckily I was young. I couldn’t take it today.

[Assistant]
It’s a lot different when we’re younger. We don’t worry as much.

You don’t think through all the ramifications of something happening. But with four kids.

[User] Kept me busy.

[Assistant] Were you active at all in their school?

[User] Yes, pretty much. More so after we left Houston and went to Denver. The kids were in Denver Country Day School, and I just practically lived at that school. I just got so interested in everything to do there.

[Assistant] This is a great one.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Kept me busy.

[Assistant] Were you active at all in their school?

[User] Yes, pretty much. More so after we left Houston and went to Denver. The kids were in Denver Country Day School, and I just practically lived at that school. I just got so interested in everything to do there.

[Assistant] This is a great one.

[User] When I was in Houston I did some volunteer work for the junior league though, so that was one day a week.

[Assistant] I noticed that you were quite active in that group. Were you active in any other local groups, maybe in the Clear Lake area?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, pretty much. More so after we left Houston and went to Denver. The kids were in Denver Country Day School, and I just practically lived at that school. I just got so interested in everything to do there.

[Assistant] This is a great one.

[User] When I was in Houston I did some volunteer work for the junior league though, so that was one day a week.

[Assistant] I noticed that you were quite active in that group. Were you active in any other local groups, maybe in the Clear Lake area?

[User] Just the theater group.

[Assistant] Just the theater group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When I was in Houston I did some volunteer work for the junior league though, so that was one day a week.

[Assistant] I noticed that you were quite active in that group. Were you active in any other local groups, maybe in the Clear Lake area?

[User] Just the theater group.

[Assistant] Just the theater group?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] I have to ask. Did the boys draw on the back of these chairs? It almost looks like it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just the theater group.

[Assistant] Just the theater group?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] I have to ask. Did the boys draw on the back of these chairs? It almost looks like it.

[User] I can’t tell.

[Assistant]
I can’t tell if the chairs are—see?

Oh yes. It may be a design.

Maybe.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] I have to ask. Did the boys draw on the back of these chairs? It almost looks like it.

[User] I can’t tell.

[Assistant]
I can’t tell if the chairs are—see?

Oh yes. It may be a design.

Maybe.

[User] I don’t know what that is.

[Assistant] I think it’s a design in the chair.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I can’t tell.

[Assistant]
I can’t tell if the chairs are—see?

Oh yes. It may be a design.

Maybe.

[User] I don’t know what that is.

[Assistant] I think it’s a design in the chair.

[User] I never knew there was a design on them.

[Assistant] Maybe they drew on them. You didn’t know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t know what that is.

[Assistant] I think it’s a design in the chair.

[User] I never knew there was a design on them.

[Assistant] Maybe they drew on them. You didn’t know.

[User] Maybe they did, because they’re not the same. I bet they did.

[Assistant]
You know how kids do that. They just pick up a pencil.

I had some furniture with crayon on it, so I know.

Where did your kids go to school when they were in Clear Lake?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I never knew there was a design on them.

[Assistant] Maybe they drew on them. You didn’t know.

[User] Maybe they did, because they’re not the same. I bet they did.

[Assistant]
You know how kids do that. They just pick up a pencil.

I had some furniture with crayon on it, so I know.

Where did your kids go to school when they were in Clear Lake?

[User] They went to Seabrook Elementary School and then we went to Denver after that. I think maybe Peter had one year in the high school there. Oh, no, he went to TMI here, Texas Military Institute [San Antonio, Texas].

[Assistant] Were you making ice cream?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Maybe they did, because they’re not the same. I bet they did.

[Assistant]
You know how kids do that. They just pick up a pencil.

I had some furniture with crayon on it, so I know.

Where did your kids go to school when they were in Clear Lake?

[User] They went to Seabrook Elementary School and then we went to Denver after that. I think maybe Peter had one year in the high school there. Oh, no, he went to TMI here, Texas Military Institute [San Antonio, Texas].

[Assistant] Were you making ice cream?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Is that it? It looks like it. What did you think of the schools in Clear Lake? Were you happy with the quality of education?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They went to Seabrook Elementary School and then we went to Denver after that. I think maybe Peter had one year in the high school there. Oh, no, he went to TMI here, Texas Military Institute [San Antonio, Texas].

[Assistant] Were you making ice cream?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Is that it? It looks like it. What did you think of the schools in Clear Lake? Were you happy with the quality of education?

[User] I assumed they were okay. I don’t know. When we left there they went in private schools, and they all managed to get through, so I guess they were good enough.

[Assistant] Did a lot of the wives spend time at the schools?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Is that it? It looks like it. What did you think of the schools in Clear Lake? Were you happy with the quality of education?

[User] I assumed they were okay. I don’t know. When we left there they went in private schools, and they all managed to get through, so I guess they were good enough.

[Assistant] Did a lot of the wives spend time at the schools?

[User] I don’t know. I don’t think so. I don’t know, really.

[Assistant] I was reading that Marilyn Lovell said living in that area was really the best time of her life. Do you think that was the case for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I assumed they were okay. I don’t know. When we left there they went in private schools, and they all managed to get through, so I guess they were good enough.

[Assistant] Did a lot of the wives spend time at the schools?

[User] I don’t know. I don’t think so. I don’t know, really.

[Assistant] I was reading that Marilyn Lovell said living in that area was really the best time of her life. Do you think that was the case for you?

[User] It was exciting and fun and scary, and it was everything, but I don’t know whether it was the best time. I can’t say. I know that the last few years before I was divorced was not my best time. Since I’ve been married to Seymour has been my best time.

[Assistant] How long have you two been married?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t know. I don’t think so. I don’t know, really.

[Assistant] I was reading that Marilyn Lovell said living in that area was really the best time of her life. Do you think that was the case for you?

[User] It was exciting and fun and scary, and it was everything, but I don’t know whether it was the best time. I can’t say. I know that the last few years before I was divorced was not my best time. Since I’ve been married to Seymour has been my best time.

[Assistant] How long have you two been married?

[User] Twenty-seven years.

[Assistant]
Twenty-seven years.

It’s a long time.

That is a long time. Definitely up there with your first marriage. You might surpass that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was exciting and fun and scary, and it was everything, but I don’t know whether it was the best time. I can’t say. I know that the last few years before I was divorced was not my best time. Since I’ve been married to Seymour has been my best time.

[Assistant] How long have you two been married?

[User] Twenty-seven years.

[Assistant]
Twenty-seven years.

It’s a long time.

That is a long time. Definitely up there with your first marriage. You might surpass that.

[User] I don’t know. He’s 92.

[Assistant]
He’s 92.

Neither one of you look your age.

No, you don’t.

You may surpass all of us.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Twenty-seven years.

[Assistant]
Twenty-seven years.

It’s a long time.

That is a long time. Definitely up there with your first marriage. You might surpass that.

[User] I don’t know. He’s 92.

[Assistant]
He’s 92.

Neither one of you look your age.

No, you don’t.

You may surpass all of us.

[User] That’s my mother and father. He’s putting her necklace on or something, I don’t know.

[Assistant] Did they come out to your house quite often since you were nearby?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t know. He’s 92.

[Assistant]
He’s 92.

Neither one of you look your age.

No, you don’t.

You may surpass all of us.

[User] That’s my mother and father. He’s putting her necklace on or something, I don’t know.

[Assistant] Did they come out to your house quite often since you were nearby?

[User] Oh yes, they went to the launch, yes.

[Assistant] What did they think of you marrying an astronaut?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes, they went to the launch, yes.

[Assistant] What did they think of you marrying an astronaut?

[User] They knew Pete before he was an astronaut for quite a long time. In fact, he came out two summers before we were married. He came to the ranch and spent part of the summer at the ranch. That was a whole bunch of other stories because Daddy played tricks on him and he played tricks on Daddy and on my brother and everybody, so they all had a great time. They got to know him really well before we were married even. Oh, I forgot I had that picture. That’s a funny one, one of the neighbors took that picture.

[Assistant] Oh, really?

[User] I like that one.

[Assistant]
Oh, I thought that was a NASA photo for a long time.

Didn’t they do some of those funny—NASA took some photos. It was the crew photos that were a little funny.

I think in one of the books I read about Pete he came out to your ranch and had on new clothes for the first time he went out to the ranch.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They knew Pete before he was an astronaut for quite a long time. In fact, he came out two summers before we were married. He came to the ranch and spent part of the summer at the ranch. That was a whole bunch of other stories because Daddy played tricks on him and he played tricks on Daddy and on my brother and everybody, so they all had a great time. They got to know him really well before we were married even. Oh, I forgot I had that picture. That’s a funny one, one of the neighbors took that picture.

[Assistant] Oh, really?

[User] I like that one.

[Assistant]
Oh, I thought that was a NASA photo for a long time.

Didn’t they do some of those funny—NASA took some photos. It was the crew photos that were a little funny.

I think in one of the books I read about Pete he came out to your ranch and had on new clothes for the first time he went out to the ranch.

[User] Oh, for the first time he came out, yes.

[Assistant] He made some comment about needing to roll around and—


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I like that one.

[Assistant]
Oh, I thought that was a NASA photo for a long time.

Didn’t they do some of those funny—NASA took some photos. It was the crew photos that were a little funny.

I think in one of the books I read about Pete he came out to your ranch and had on new clothes for the first time he went out to the ranch.

[User] Oh, for the first time he came out, yes.

[Assistant] He made some comment about needing to roll around and—

[User] Get it looking like—yes, making his hat look like it was well-worn.

[Assistant] What was Clear Lake like in the ’60s? Where would you shop?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, for the first time he came out, yes.

[Assistant] He made some comment about needing to roll around and—

[User] Get it looking like—yes, making his hat look like it was well-worn.

[Assistant] What was Clear Lake like in the ’60s? Where would you shop?

[User] Oh, when we first got there there was just this little country store there, it was the only place. We could go out to Ellington [Air Force Base] if we were military. We could go out to Ellington and buy at their exchange and their PX. There was a tiny little store, and that was all there was in Seabrook, practically dirt floor. It was just the most rustic place. Could barely buy anything but the bare essentials.

[Assistant] I’ve heard some folks talk about how rural that area was, that there were a lot of wild animals still in the area. Did you encounter that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Get it looking like—yes, making his hat look like it was well-worn.

[Assistant] What was Clear Lake like in the ’60s? Where would you shop?

[User] Oh, when we first got there there was just this little country store there, it was the only place. We could go out to Ellington [Air Force Base] if we were military. We could go out to Ellington and buy at their exchange and their PX. There was a tiny little store, and that was all there was in Seabrook, practically dirt floor. It was just the most rustic place. Could barely buy anything but the bare essentials.

[Assistant] I’ve heard some folks talk about how rural that area was, that there were a lot of wild animals still in the area. Did you encounter that?

[User] I don’t remember seeing any wild animals, but I guess there were.

[Assistant] You were talking about the store. Do you remember the Henke & Pillot store in Seabrook?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, when we first got there there was just this little country store there, it was the only place. We could go out to Ellington [Air Force Base] if we were military. We could go out to Ellington and buy at their exchange and their PX. There was a tiny little store, and that was all there was in Seabrook, practically dirt floor. It was just the most rustic place. Could barely buy anything but the bare essentials.

[Assistant] I’ve heard some folks talk about how rural that area was, that there were a lot of wild animals still in the area. Did you encounter that?

[User] I don’t remember seeing any wild animals, but I guess there were.

[Assistant] You were talking about the store. Do you remember the Henke & Pillot store in Seabrook?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Because that’s where we shopped. I grew up in that area.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t remember seeing any wild animals, but I guess there were.

[Assistant] You were talking about the store. Do you remember the Henke & Pillot store in Seabrook?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Because that’s where we shopped. I grew up in that area.

[User] Oh, really? That’s the store, I guess. I’d forgotten the name.

[Assistant] Yes. It was the only one.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Because that’s where we shopped. I grew up in that area.

[User] Oh, really? That’s the store, I guess. I’d forgotten the name.

[Assistant] Yes. It was the only one.

[User] When you said it I remembered it.

[Assistant] I was wondering if that’s the one you were talking about.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, really? That’s the store, I guess. I’d forgotten the name.

[Assistant] Yes. It was the only one.

[User] When you said it I remembered it.

[Assistant] I was wondering if that’s the one you were talking about.

[User] It was no Walmart.

[Assistant]
No, basic groceries.

Not back then. How did things evolve over time? Do you think things changed during the years that you were in Clear Lake? Or did it take a lot longer for that area?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When you said it I remembered it.

[Assistant] I was wondering if that’s the one you were talking about.

[User] It was no Walmart.

[Assistant]
No, basic groceries.

Not back then. How did things evolve over time? Do you think things changed during the years that you were in Clear Lake? Or did it take a lot longer for that area?

[User] It built up pretty fast. I’m sure it did. They started putting hotels in and lots of restaurants, and people moved there for different reasons. It built up. You all will remember probably if you were there.

[Assistant]
Yes.

Did your kids have an opportunity to go out to the Space Center much and spend time with their dad out there? Or did you get a chance to go out there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was no Walmart.

[Assistant]
No, basic groceries.

Not back then. How did things evolve over time? Do you think things changed during the years that you were in Clear Lake? Or did it take a lot longer for that area?

[User] It built up pretty fast. I’m sure it did. They started putting hotels in and lots of restaurants, and people moved there for different reasons. It built up. You all will remember probably if you were there.

[Assistant]
Yes.

Did your kids have an opportunity to go out to the Space Center much and spend time with their dad out there? Or did you get a chance to go out there?

[User] They didn’t go out there much. I took them out there when they were in the LRL.

[Assistant] Yes, the LRL, the Lunar Receiving Lab.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It built up pretty fast. I’m sure it did. They started putting hotels in and lots of restaurants, and people moved there for different reasons. It built up. You all will remember probably if you were there.

[Assistant]
Yes.

Did your kids have an opportunity to go out to the Space Center much and spend time with their dad out there? Or did you get a chance to go out there?

[User] They didn’t go out there much. I took them out there when they were in the LRL.

[Assistant] Yes, the LRL, the Lunar Receiving Lab.

[User] LRL, yes.

[Assistant] That must have been fun with four kids.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They didn’t go out there much. I took them out there when they were in the LRL.

[Assistant] Yes, the LRL, the Lunar Receiving Lab.

[User] LRL, yes.

[Assistant] That must have been fun with four kids.

[User] They were out there in the CapCom [console] in the mission control. We could hear. We went there every day, [but] not every day during Skylab.

[Assistant] When there were missions going on were your kids in school, or did they get special dispensation to stay home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] LRL, yes.

[Assistant] That must have been fun with four kids.

[User] They were out there in the CapCom [console] in the mission control. We could hear. We went there every day, [but] not every day during Skylab.

[Assistant] When there were missions going on were your kids in school, or did they get special dispensation to stay home?

[User] Yes, they were in school. I remember one day Christopher, he was in kindergarten, and he would not get in the car pool. I was carrying him out to the car trying to make him go, and it was reported that I was forcing him to go to school. I got the worst letters from people. “You’re just a cruel horrible mother. How could you do such a terrible thing?” There were a lot of people. Oh, and then one person said something about why was I wearing sunglasses. There are such crazies out there really. I probably didn’t get as many crazy letters as some people did, but there are people that don’t have anything better to do than write some dumb thing. I think a lot of them maybe went to NASA and then they threw them away.

[Assistant] Did you get fan mail? Did NASA handle mail for the wives?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were out there in the CapCom [console] in the mission control. We could hear. We went there every day, [but] not every day during Skylab.

[Assistant] When there were missions going on were your kids in school, or did they get special dispensation to stay home?

[User] Yes, they were in school. I remember one day Christopher, he was in kindergarten, and he would not get in the car pool. I was carrying him out to the car trying to make him go, and it was reported that I was forcing him to go to school. I got the worst letters from people. “You’re just a cruel horrible mother. How could you do such a terrible thing?” There were a lot of people. Oh, and then one person said something about why was I wearing sunglasses. There are such crazies out there really. I probably didn’t get as many crazy letters as some people did, but there are people that don’t have anything better to do than write some dumb thing. I think a lot of them maybe went to NASA and then they threw them away.

[Assistant] Did you get fan mail? Did NASA handle mail for the wives?

[User] Yes, they handled the mail that came there, because people didn’t know us. They didn’t know where we lived, so they just sent letters to us in care of NASA.

[Assistant] How odd. What did you think when you got that first bundle of mail?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, they were in school. I remember one day Christopher, he was in kindergarten, and he would not get in the car pool. I was carrying him out to the car trying to make him go, and it was reported that I was forcing him to go to school. I got the worst letters from people. “You’re just a cruel horrible mother. How could you do such a terrible thing?” There were a lot of people. Oh, and then one person said something about why was I wearing sunglasses. There are such crazies out there really. I probably didn’t get as many crazy letters as some people did, but there are people that don’t have anything better to do than write some dumb thing. I think a lot of them maybe went to NASA and then they threw them away.

[Assistant] Did you get fan mail? Did NASA handle mail for the wives?

[User] Yes, they handled the mail that came there, because people didn’t know us. They didn’t know where we lived, so they just sent letters to us in care of NASA.

[Assistant] How odd. What did you think when you got that first bundle of mail?

[User] I was kind of hurt that they said mean things, because they didn’t know me. “How dare you say mean things about me? You don’t know me.”

[Assistant] They didn’t know the circumstances either.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, they handled the mail that came there, because people didn’t know us. They didn’t know where we lived, so they just sent letters to us in care of NASA.

[Assistant] How odd. What did you think when you got that first bundle of mail?

[User] I was kind of hurt that they said mean things, because they didn’t know me. “How dare you say mean things about me? You don’t know me.”

[Assistant] They didn’t know the circumstances either.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] I did notice in some of the press coverage that I’ve seen, because there were clippings from the Apollo 12 mission over at the Methodist church, that they all seem to be about your boys, and the fact that they weren’t behaving, that they were doing things.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was kind of hurt that they said mean things, because they didn’t know me. “How dare you say mean things about me? You don’t know me.”

[Assistant] They didn’t know the circumstances either.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] I did notice in some of the press coverage that I’ve seen, because there were clippings from the Apollo 12 mission over at the Methodist church, that they all seem to be about your boys, and the fact that they weren’t behaving, that they were doing things.

[User] They were doing it to entertain, and they were being egged on too, believe me. The reporters were trying to make them do it too, because they’d get some better pictures. It’s not that they were really bad boys so much as they were being egged on.

[Assistant] I just figured it’s kind of hard for kids to sit still for long periods of time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] I did notice in some of the press coverage that I’ve seen, because there were clippings from the Apollo 12 mission over at the Methodist church, that they all seem to be about your boys, and the fact that they weren’t behaving, that they were doing things.

[User] They were doing it to entertain, and they were being egged on too, believe me. The reporters were trying to make them do it too, because they’d get some better pictures. It’s not that they were really bad boys so much as they were being egged on.

[Assistant] I just figured it’s kind of hard for kids to sit still for long periods of time.

[User] Of course.

[Assistant] Boys will be boys.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were doing it to entertain, and they were being egged on too, believe me. The reporters were trying to make them do it too, because they’d get some better pictures. It’s not that they were really bad boys so much as they were being egged on.

[Assistant] I just figured it’s kind of hard for kids to sit still for long periods of time.

[User] Of course.

[Assistant] Boys will be boys.

[User] Especially boys, yes.

[Assistant] It’s very challenging. I did want to ask about the Apollo 1 fire and the loss of the other [astronauts], if you would talk about some of those [events].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Of course.

[Assistant] Boys will be boys.

[User] Especially boys, yes.

[Assistant] It’s very challenging. I did want to ask about the Apollo 1 fire and the loss of the other [astronauts], if you would talk about some of those [events].

[User] Oh, gosh. That was so terrible. I remember I was babysitting for a neighbor’s baby, and I got the phone call about the fire. I was crying so much and she was crying, the baby was crying. I was in the rocking chair crying. She was crying, and I was crying. It was awful.\n\n Then I remember when Elliot [M.] See died. They called me to go over, because I was across the street. I ran over there and they said, “Don’t say anything until someone comes to tell her officially. Don’t tell her what you’re over there for.” I had to try to pretend like nothing had happened. I can’t remember who came over, Deke or somebody came over to tell her. Oh, it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Just to go over and, “Hi.”

[Assistant] Make polite conversation.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Especially boys, yes.

[Assistant] It’s very challenging. I did want to ask about the Apollo 1 fire and the loss of the other [astronauts], if you would talk about some of those [events].

[User] Oh, gosh. That was so terrible. I remember I was babysitting for a neighbor’s baby, and I got the phone call about the fire. I was crying so much and she was crying, the baby was crying. I was in the rocking chair crying. She was crying, and I was crying. It was awful.\n\n Then I remember when Elliot [M.] See died. They called me to go over, because I was across the street. I ran over there and they said, “Don’t say anything until someone comes to tell her officially. Don’t tell her what you’re over there for.” I had to try to pretend like nothing had happened. I can’t remember who came over, Deke or somebody came over to tell her. Oh, it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Just to go over and, “Hi.”

[Assistant] Make polite conversation.

[User] Yes. After he died I went over every night about five o’clock just to talk to her while she was cooking dinner, because I thought, “This is the worst part of the day, when you expect him to come home.” I thought maybe that would be a good time to distract her.

[Assistant]
That was really nice.\n\n [Break in interview]

What sort of support did NASA provide the wives?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, gosh. That was so terrible. I remember I was babysitting for a neighbor’s baby, and I got the phone call about the fire. I was crying so much and she was crying, the baby was crying. I was in the rocking chair crying. She was crying, and I was crying. It was awful.\n\n Then I remember when Elliot [M.] See died. They called me to go over, because I was across the street. I ran over there and they said, “Don’t say anything until someone comes to tell her officially. Don’t tell her what you’re over there for.” I had to try to pretend like nothing had happened. I can’t remember who came over, Deke or somebody came over to tell her. Oh, it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Just to go over and, “Hi.”

[Assistant] Make polite conversation.

[User] Yes. After he died I went over every night about five o’clock just to talk to her while she was cooking dinner, because I thought, “This is the worst part of the day, when you expect him to come home.” I thought maybe that would be a good time to distract her.

[Assistant]
That was really nice.\n\n [Break in interview]

What sort of support did NASA provide the wives?

[User] They always [sent] a security guy in your house all during the flights, so if there’s any problem [you had assistance]. Of course we had the free doctors and nurses, that was a wonderful thing. I even took my niece one time out to their dentist, and they gave her a filling. Nobody said anything wrong with that. She was staying with me, and I thought well, I’ll just take her out there.

[Assistant] Did you get to fly out on the Gulfstream when you went out for launches?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. After he died I went over every night about five o’clock just to talk to her while she was cooking dinner, because I thought, “This is the worst part of the day, when you expect him to come home.” I thought maybe that would be a good time to distract her.

[Assistant]
That was really nice.\n\n [Break in interview]

What sort of support did NASA provide the wives?

[User] They always [sent] a security guy in your house all during the flights, so if there’s any problem [you had assistance]. Of course we had the free doctors and nurses, that was a wonderful thing. I even took my niece one time out to their dentist, and they gave her a filling. Nobody said anything wrong with that. She was staying with me, and I thought well, I’ll just take her out there.

[Assistant] Did you get to fly out on the Gulfstream when you went out for launches?

[User] Yes. Quite a lot of times. I think it was the Gulfstream that I went to Ed [Edward H.] White’s funeral. We went a lot of times to the White House; we were in the Gulfstream, yes. Of course I get that mixed up with all those McDonnell Douglas planes that we flew all kinds of places with. I really went to a lot of countries, with McDonnell Douglas, because Pete worked for them after he left NASA. Those were a lot of fun trips too, almost the same idea, because we were well wined and dined and taken on tours.

[Assistant] One of the pictures that we saw in here was a picture of your family with Lyndon B. Johnson.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They always [sent] a security guy in your house all during the flights, so if there’s any problem [you had assistance]. Of course we had the free doctors and nurses, that was a wonderful thing. I even took my niece one time out to their dentist, and they gave her a filling. Nobody said anything wrong with that. She was staying with me, and I thought well, I’ll just take her out there.

[Assistant] Did you get to fly out on the Gulfstream when you went out for launches?

[User] Yes. Quite a lot of times. I think it was the Gulfstream that I went to Ed [Edward H.] White’s funeral. We went a lot of times to the White House; we were in the Gulfstream, yes. Of course I get that mixed up with all those McDonnell Douglas planes that we flew all kinds of places with. I really went to a lot of countries, with McDonnell Douglas, because Pete worked for them after he left NASA. Those were a lot of fun trips too, almost the same idea, because we were well wined and dined and taken on tours.

[Assistant] One of the pictures that we saw in here was a picture of your family with Lyndon B. Johnson.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] What was he like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Quite a lot of times. I think it was the Gulfstream that I went to Ed [Edward H.] White’s funeral. We went a lot of times to the White House; we were in the Gulfstream, yes. Of course I get that mixed up with all those McDonnell Douglas planes that we flew all kinds of places with. I really went to a lot of countries, with McDonnell Douglas, because Pete worked for them after he left NASA. Those were a lot of fun trips too, almost the same idea, because we were well wined and dined and taken on tours.

[Assistant] One of the pictures that we saw in here was a picture of your family with Lyndon B. Johnson.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] What was he like?

[User] I got to know him better one time we went out to their ranch and had lunch with him. This was just an official thing, and we didn’t really do much talking on that. He was trying to keep [the boys] from picking up the phone that went to the [Soviet Union].

[Assistant] Oh, the red line?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] What was he like?

[User] I got to know him better one time we went out to their ranch and had lunch with him. This was just an official thing, and we didn’t really do much talking on that. He was trying to keep [the boys] from picking up the phone that went to the [Soviet Union].

[Assistant] Oh, the red line?

[User] Yes, the red line.

[Assistant] Why did you get invited out to the ranch?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I got to know him better one time we went out to their ranch and had lunch with him. This was just an official thing, and we didn’t really do much talking on that. He was trying to keep [the boys] from picking up the phone that went to the [Soviet Union].

[Assistant] Oh, the red line?

[User] Yes, the red line.

[Assistant] Why did you get invited out to the ranch?

[User] Yes, that was fun, that was when we had the film that they took of landing on the Moon. We showed that out in their garage. I guess we were in the Gulfstream. We landed there and LBJ took the men on a tour of the ranch, and Lady Bird took us back to their house. She was just a lovely person. She took us all around, every room in the house. We sat on her bed and looked at pictures like you’re looking at our pictures. We had lunch there, and it was very nice. When [the men] came back from looking at the ranch, LBJ sat on the hearth. Everybody was around [him]. I was sitting in his chair, which was one of those big leather BarcaLoungers. It had the presidential seal embossed on the back. When he came in I thought, “Do I get up and give him his chair, or do I sit here?” I sat.\n\n He was talking to us, and everybody’s sitting around him staring at him. All of a sudden he reaches in his pocket, and he takes out a handkerchief (hawking noise). He opens it up and inspects it in front of us. He was rather a diamond in the rough.

[Assistant] I think he was who he was.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, the red line.

[Assistant] Why did you get invited out to the ranch?

[User] Yes, that was fun, that was when we had the film that they took of landing on the Moon. We showed that out in their garage. I guess we were in the Gulfstream. We landed there and LBJ took the men on a tour of the ranch, and Lady Bird took us back to their house. She was just a lovely person. She took us all around, every room in the house. We sat on her bed and looked at pictures like you’re looking at our pictures. We had lunch there, and it was very nice. When [the men] came back from looking at the ranch, LBJ sat on the hearth. Everybody was around [him]. I was sitting in his chair, which was one of those big leather BarcaLoungers. It had the presidential seal embossed on the back. When he came in I thought, “Do I get up and give him his chair, or do I sit here?” I sat.\n\n He was talking to us, and everybody’s sitting around him staring at him. All of a sudden he reaches in his pocket, and he takes out a handkerchief (hawking noise). He opens it up and inspects it in front of us. He was rather a diamond in the rough.

[Assistant] I think he was who he was.

[User]
He was who he was, yes.\n\n SEYMOUR

Getting to the salacious part?

Yes. All the parts that Jackie Kennedy didn’t get in on so she couldn’t publish my book.\n\n SEYMOUR

What’s the purpose of the—

Interview?\n\n SEYMOUR

Interview, yes.

[Assistant] We have an Oral History Project at the Space Center that has been ongoing since 1997.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, that was fun, that was when we had the film that they took of landing on the Moon. We showed that out in their garage. I guess we were in the Gulfstream. We landed there and LBJ took the men on a tour of the ranch, and Lady Bird took us back to their house. She was just a lovely person. She took us all around, every room in the house. We sat on her bed and looked at pictures like you’re looking at our pictures. We had lunch there, and it was very nice. When [the men] came back from looking at the ranch, LBJ sat on the hearth. Everybody was around [him]. I was sitting in his chair, which was one of those big leather BarcaLoungers. It had the presidential seal embossed on the back. When he came in I thought, “Do I get up and give him his chair, or do I sit here?” I sat.\n\n He was talking to us, and everybody’s sitting around him staring at him. All of a sudden he reaches in his pocket, and he takes out a handkerchief (hawking noise). He opens it up and inspects it in front of us. He was rather a diamond in the rough.

[Assistant] I think he was who he was.

[User]
He was who he was, yes.\n\n SEYMOUR

Getting to the salacious part?

Yes. All the parts that Jackie Kennedy didn’t get in on so she couldn’t publish my book.\n\n SEYMOUR

What’s the purpose of the—

Interview?\n\n SEYMOUR

Interview, yes.

[Assistant] We have an Oral History Project at the Space Center that has been ongoing since 1997.

[User]
They knew Jack Kinzler. They interviewed Jack Kinzler, and they knew all of the people.\n\n SEYMOUR

Jack Kinzler.

Yes.

[Assistant] Yes. We’ve interviewed a lot of folks, but we have not interviewed the wives. We are trying now to capture some of that history before we lose any more of it because we’ve lost so many wives.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
He was who he was, yes.\n\n SEYMOUR

Getting to the salacious part?

Yes. All the parts that Jackie Kennedy didn’t get in on so she couldn’t publish my book.\n\n SEYMOUR

What’s the purpose of the—

Interview?\n\n SEYMOUR

Interview, yes.

[Assistant] We have an Oral History Project at the Space Center that has been ongoing since 1997.

[User]
They knew Jack Kinzler. They interviewed Jack Kinzler, and they knew all of the people.\n\n SEYMOUR

Jack Kinzler.

Yes.

[Assistant] Yes. We’ve interviewed a lot of folks, but we have not interviewed the wives. We are trying now to capture some of that history before we lose any more of it because we’ve lost so many wives.

[User] Oh I know, 28.

[Assistant]
Yes, that’s a lot. That’s what we’re trying to capture before we can’t anymore. There’s only, unfortunately, two of us.

There’s two of us.

Trying to capture all this history.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
They knew Jack Kinzler. They interviewed Jack Kinzler, and they knew all of the people.\n\n SEYMOUR

Jack Kinzler.

Yes.

[Assistant] Yes. We’ve interviewed a lot of folks, but we have not interviewed the wives. We are trying now to capture some of that history before we lose any more of it because we’ve lost so many wives.

[User] Oh I know, 28.

[Assistant]
Yes, that’s a lot. That’s what we’re trying to capture before we can’t anymore. There’s only, unfortunately, two of us.

There’s two of us.

Trying to capture all this history.

[User] It’s going to be a big book.

[Assistant]
Maybe one day.

We have over 1,400 interviews on our portal.

Yes. Since ’97.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh I know, 28.

[Assistant]
Yes, that’s a lot. That’s what we’re trying to capture before we can’t anymore. There’s only, unfortunately, two of us.

There’s two of us.

Trying to capture all this history.

[User] It’s going to be a big book.

[Assistant]
Maybe one day.

We have over 1,400 interviews on our portal.

Yes. Since ’97.

[User] You can condense it down though to 1,400 pages.

[Assistant]
Oh, no.

No. Whatever you approve of in the final process, that’s what will go online. Then yes, people can use it for research, for writing books, and doing what they want to do. It’s interesting.

It is.

The wives are a side of the story that people don’t always get to hear. It’s what was going on day to day, normal life.

A lot of those memories you don’t really think about. They’re just the day-to-day [activities].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It’s going to be a big book.

[Assistant]
Maybe one day.

We have over 1,400 interviews on our portal.

Yes. Since ’97.

[User] You can condense it down though to 1,400 pages.

[Assistant]
Oh, no.

No. Whatever you approve of in the final process, that’s what will go online. Then yes, people can use it for research, for writing books, and doing what they want to do. It’s interesting.

It is.

The wives are a side of the story that people don’t always get to hear. It’s what was going on day to day, normal life.

A lot of those memories you don’t really think about. They’re just the day-to-day [activities].

[User] A lot of people can’t even remember. Like I can’t remember much anymore.

[Assistant] I thought we’d talk about a few of the missions though, because I figured some of those might have made an impact. We talked about the worldwide tours. I wanted to ask about the Gemini V mission because that was Pete’s first mission.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You can condense it down though to 1,400 pages.

[Assistant]
Oh, no.

No. Whatever you approve of in the final process, that’s what will go online. Then yes, people can use it for research, for writing books, and doing what they want to do. It’s interesting.

It is.

The wives are a side of the story that people don’t always get to hear. It’s what was going on day to day, normal life.

A lot of those memories you don’t really think about. They’re just the day-to-day [activities].

[User] A lot of people can’t even remember. Like I can’t remember much anymore.

[Assistant] I thought we’d talk about a few of the missions though, because I figured some of those might have made an impact. We talked about the worldwide tours. I wanted to ask about the Gemini V mission because that was Pete’s first mission.

[User] First one.

[Assistant] You were with Trudy Cooper, and I was wondering if Trudy gave you any suggestions or insight before that mission happened.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A lot of people can’t even remember. Like I can’t remember much anymore.

[Assistant] I thought we’d talk about a few of the missions though, because I figured some of those might have made an impact. We talked about the worldwide tours. I wanted to ask about the Gemini V mission because that was Pete’s first mission.

[User] First one.

[Assistant] You were with Trudy Cooper, and I was wondering if Trudy gave you any suggestions or insight before that mission happened.

[User] No, I don’t think so. In fact I didn’t know her very well until we went on that trip together. She took her two girls, because they were old enough to travel at that time. Mine were all little. I’m trying to think. Oh, there was one thing that was funny. Her girls went out with one of the security people when they were in—what country was it? I can’t remember. Some country that this guy took them, I think it was in Greece, so that Trudy and Gordo could go to a dinner party with the king and queen. The girls were not invited.\n\n When they got back, the girls said the guy got lost. It was dark, and he was driving along the street, and all of a sudden there was a whole stone staircase. He drove right down the staircase. They said every time the car hit a step he would say, “Shit, shit, shit, shit,” all the way down. That entertained us for a while. The girls were like 15 and 16. They must have been kind of scared by that time.

[Assistant]
“Where is he taking us?”

That would be my concern. “What’s at the bottom of this? When’s it going to end?” Tell us about that mission and watching it in your living room, watching the launch.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] First one.

[Assistant] You were with Trudy Cooper, and I was wondering if Trudy gave you any suggestions or insight before that mission happened.

[User] No, I don’t think so. In fact I didn’t know her very well until we went on that trip together. She took her two girls, because they were old enough to travel at that time. Mine were all little. I’m trying to think. Oh, there was one thing that was funny. Her girls went out with one of the security people when they were in—what country was it? I can’t remember. Some country that this guy took them, I think it was in Greece, so that Trudy and Gordo could go to a dinner party with the king and queen. The girls were not invited.\n\n When they got back, the girls said the guy got lost. It was dark, and he was driving along the street, and all of a sudden there was a whole stone staircase. He drove right down the staircase. They said every time the car hit a step he would say, “Shit, shit, shit, shit,” all the way down. That entertained us for a while. The girls were like 15 and 16. They must have been kind of scared by that time.

[Assistant]
“Where is he taking us?”

That would be my concern. “What’s at the bottom of this? When’s it going to end?” Tell us about that mission and watching it in your living room, watching the launch.

[User] Oh yes. People came over. All the neighbors came over and sat around, sat on the floor, brought pillows and blankets and spent the night. The neighbors really kept me company.

[Assistant] Did you have squawk boxes back then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don’t think so. In fact I didn’t know her very well until we went on that trip together. She took her two girls, because they were old enough to travel at that time. Mine were all little. I’m trying to think. Oh, there was one thing that was funny. Her girls went out with one of the security people when they were in—what country was it? I can’t remember. Some country that this guy took them, I think it was in Greece, so that Trudy and Gordo could go to a dinner party with the king and queen. The girls were not invited.\n\n When they got back, the girls said the guy got lost. It was dark, and he was driving along the street, and all of a sudden there was a whole stone staircase. He drove right down the staircase. They said every time the car hit a step he would say, “Shit, shit, shit, shit,” all the way down. That entertained us for a while. The girls were like 15 and 16. They must have been kind of scared by that time.

[Assistant]
“Where is he taking us?”

That would be my concern. “What’s at the bottom of this? When’s it going to end?” Tell us about that mission and watching it in your living room, watching the launch.

[User] Oh yes. People came over. All the neighbors came over and sat around, sat on the floor, brought pillows and blankets and spent the night. The neighbors really kept me company.

[Assistant] Did you have squawk boxes back then?

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] How closely were you following the mission, with four boys?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes. People came over. All the neighbors came over and sat around, sat on the floor, brought pillows and blankets and spent the night. The neighbors really kept me company.

[Assistant] Did you have squawk boxes back then?

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] How closely were you following the mission, with four boys?

[User] I listened to it all the time.

[Assistant] I was looking at one of the transcripts, and you actually wrote a poem for Pete, which I thought was [sweet].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] How closely were you following the mission, with four boys?

[User] I listened to it all the time.

[Assistant] I was looking at one of the transcripts, and you actually wrote a poem for Pete, which I thought was [sweet].

[User] I’ve forgotten how that went.

[Assistant] I actually wrote it down, so I can read it to you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I listened to it all the time.

[Assistant] I was looking at one of the transcripts, and you actually wrote a poem for Pete, which I thought was [sweet].

[User] I’ve forgotten how that went.

[Assistant] I actually wrote it down, so I can read it to you.

[User] You can read it to me. Thank you.

[Assistant] Yes. It’s, “Twinkle twinkle Gemini V. How I want you back alive. Up above the world so high, I saw you today as you went by. Twinkle twinkle Gemini V. Tomorrow you take a great big dive. Leaning toward the ocean blue. And I send my love to you.”


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I’ve forgotten how that went.

[Assistant] I actually wrote it down, so I can read it to you.

[User] You can read it to me. Thank you.

[Assistant] Yes. It’s, “Twinkle twinkle Gemini V. How I want you back alive. Up above the world so high, I saw you today as you went by. Twinkle twinkle Gemini V. Tomorrow you take a great big dive. Leaning toward the ocean blue. And I send my love to you.”

[User] Good for me.

[Assistant]
Yes.

It’s sweet.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You can read it to me. Thank you.

[Assistant] Yes. It’s, “Twinkle twinkle Gemini V. How I want you back alive. Up above the world so high, I saw you today as you went by. Twinkle twinkle Gemini V. Tomorrow you take a great big dive. Leaning toward the ocean blue. And I send my love to you.”

[User] Good for me.

[Assistant]
Yes.

It’s sweet.

[User] A little bit of doggerel.

[Assistant] I thought that was very sweet. Were you writing much poetry? Or you were just moved by the flight?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Good for me.

[Assistant]
Yes.

It’s sweet.

[User] A little bit of doggerel.

[Assistant] I thought that was very sweet. Were you writing much poetry? Or you were just moved by the flight?

[User] No, I guess my muse flew in and flew out again.

[Assistant] I also thought it was amusing because you had told the CapCom that you had read the Gemini horoscope for the day, and you passed that along to him as well. You said that you should get your house in order and the evening was good for dining out.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A little bit of doggerel.

[Assistant] I thought that was very sweet. Were you writing much poetry? Or you were just moved by the flight?

[User] No, I guess my muse flew in and flew out again.

[Assistant] I also thought it was amusing because you had told the CapCom that you had read the Gemini horoscope for the day, and you passed that along to him as well. You said that you should get your house in order and the evening was good for dining out.

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] I guess you were going out for dinner that night.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I guess my muse flew in and flew out again.

[Assistant] I also thought it was amusing because you had told the CapCom that you had read the Gemini horoscope for the day, and you passed that along to him as well. You said that you should get your house in order and the evening was good for dining out.

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] I guess you were going out for dinner that night.

[User] Maybe so.

[Assistant] Did Pete take up any items for the family in that first flight?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] I guess you were going out for dinner that night.

[User] Maybe so.

[Assistant] Did Pete take up any items for the family in that first flight?

[User] Oh yes, he did. I can’t remember which he took on which flights, but he did. They made a whole lot of those coins out of some silver. Pete had it because they were silver bars that had been on a sunken ship hundreds of years ago. He got them from Teddy Tucker, who was a treasure diver in Bermuda. He gave him one to have those things struck into coins.\n\n I designed a pin for the Apollo flight of the Moon with a little clipper ship flying around it, the Yankee Clipper. James Avery made the pins.

[Assistant] Do you still have that pin?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Maybe so.

[Assistant] Did Pete take up any items for the family in that first flight?

[User] Oh yes, he did. I can’t remember which he took on which flights, but he did. They made a whole lot of those coins out of some silver. Pete had it because they were silver bars that had been on a sunken ship hundreds of years ago. He got them from Teddy Tucker, who was a treasure diver in Bermuda. He gave him one to have those things struck into coins.\n\n I designed a pin for the Apollo flight of the Moon with a little clipper ship flying around it, the Yankee Clipper. James Avery made the pins.

[Assistant] Do you still have that pin?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You wear it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes, he did. I can’t remember which he took on which flights, but he did. They made a whole lot of those coins out of some silver. Pete had it because they were silver bars that had been on a sunken ship hundreds of years ago. He got them from Teddy Tucker, who was a treasure diver in Bermuda. He gave him one to have those things struck into coins.\n\n I designed a pin for the Apollo flight of the Moon with a little clipper ship flying around it, the Yankee Clipper. James Avery made the pins.

[Assistant] Do you still have that pin?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You wear it?

[User] Never wear it.

[Assistant] Never wear it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You wear it?

[User] Never wear it.

[Assistant] Never wear it.

[User] I sent it to the cleaner’s one time, and I’m afraid to ever since. But they got it back [to me]. They found it at the bottom of a great big bin.

[Assistant] I think I had read that you had that pin made for the other two wives for that mission.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Never wear it.

[Assistant] Never wear it.

[User] I sent it to the cleaner’s one time, and I’m afraid to ever since. But they got it back [to me]. They found it at the bottom of a great big bin.

[Assistant] I think I had read that you had that pin made for the other two wives for that mission.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] That was really nice of you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I sent it to the cleaner’s one time, and I’m afraid to ever since. But they got it back [to me]. They found it at the bottom of a great big bin.

[Assistant] I think I had read that you had that pin made for the other two wives for that mission.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] That was really nice of you.

[User] Nobody had ever heard of James Avery. I don’t know how I heard of him, because at that time he was working in a little tiny studio in Kerrville [Texas], and now he has international stuff.

[Assistant] We were actually planning on visiting the store when we go up to Kerrville.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] That was really nice of you.

[User] Nobody had ever heard of James Avery. I don’t know how I heard of him, because at that time he was working in a little tiny studio in Kerrville [Texas], and now he has international stuff.

[Assistant] We were actually planning on visiting the store when we go up to Kerrville.

[User] Oh yes, Kerrville is a fun place. We visited there when we were on that last reunion we had last spring. It’s really fun.

[Assistant] What was the media interest like in that first flight? What did you think of all of that coverage?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Nobody had ever heard of James Avery. I don’t know how I heard of him, because at that time he was working in a little tiny studio in Kerrville [Texas], and now he has international stuff.

[Assistant] We were actually planning on visiting the store when we go up to Kerrville.

[User] Oh yes, Kerrville is a fun place. We visited there when we were on that last reunion we had last spring. It’s really fun.

[Assistant] What was the media interest like in that first flight? What did you think of all of that coverage?

[User] They were camped out in our yard the whole time, and of course they had television cameras all the time and other cameras. As I said, the kids always were out there, ready to do anything that they told them to do.

[Assistant] Would you go out and do interviews during key parts of the mission?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes, Kerrville is a fun place. We visited there when we were on that last reunion we had last spring. It’s really fun.

[Assistant] What was the media interest like in that first flight? What did you think of all of that coverage?

[User] They were camped out in our yard the whole time, and of course they had television cameras all the time and other cameras. As I said, the kids always were out there, ready to do anything that they told them to do.

[Assistant] Would you go out and do interviews during key parts of the mission?

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Did you get any media training from NASA? Was that something [NASA offered]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were camped out in our yard the whole time, and of course they had television cameras all the time and other cameras. As I said, the kids always were out there, ready to do anything that they told them to do.

[Assistant] Would you go out and do interviews during key parts of the mission?

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Did you get any media training from NASA? Was that something [NASA offered]?

[User]
No. I guess they figured we could do it okay.\n\n SEYMOUR

Camped out literally? Or just as a figure of speech?

They stayed there all day, and I don’t know how late into the night, because I didn’t [check]. They did have some tents, but I don’t know that they slept in them. They just had them because it was hot in August. What flight was that?\n\n SEYMOUR

They cooked hot dogs.

No, I fed them.

[Assistant] You fed them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Did you get any media training from NASA? Was that something [NASA offered]?

[User]
No. I guess they figured we could do it okay.\n\n SEYMOUR

Camped out literally? Or just as a figure of speech?

They stayed there all day, and I don’t know how late into the night, because I didn’t [check]. They did have some tents, but I don’t know that they slept in them. They just had them because it was hot in August. What flight was that?\n\n SEYMOUR

They cooked hot dogs.

No, I fed them.

[Assistant] You fed them?

[User] No, I did take them food sometimes, cookies and lemonade and stuff.

[Assistant] That’s nice. Obviously you did like the media.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
No. I guess they figured we could do it okay.\n\n SEYMOUR

Camped out literally? Or just as a figure of speech?

They stayed there all day, and I don’t know how late into the night, because I didn’t [check]. They did have some tents, but I don’t know that they slept in them. They just had them because it was hot in August. What flight was that?\n\n SEYMOUR

They cooked hot dogs.

No, I fed them.

[Assistant] You fed them?

[User] No, I did take them food sometimes, cookies and lemonade and stuff.

[Assistant] That’s nice. Obviously you did like the media.

[User] Oh yes, I did.

[Assistant] They probably liked coming to your house.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I did take them food sometimes, cookies and lemonade and stuff.

[Assistant] That’s nice. Obviously you did like the media.

[User] Oh yes, I did.

[Assistant] They probably liked coming to your house.

[User]
Yes. The Life magazine and World Book people were allowed to come in our house. They were very nice people.\n\n SEYMOUR

You were under contract, right?

Yes.

[Assistant] What about the Apollo 12 mission? So much has been made of that crew, the fact that there were three best friends flying into space.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes, I did.

[Assistant] They probably liked coming to your house.

[User]
Yes. The Life magazine and World Book people were allowed to come in our house. They were very nice people.\n\n SEYMOUR

You were under contract, right?

Yes.

[Assistant] What about the Apollo 12 mission? So much has been made of that crew, the fact that there were three best friends flying into space.

[User] There were three Navy.

[Assistant] Yes. Was that the same for the wives? Were you close with Sue [Bean] and Barbara [Gordon]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Yes. The Life magazine and World Book people were allowed to come in our house. They were very nice people.\n\n SEYMOUR

You were under contract, right?

Yes.

[Assistant] What about the Apollo 12 mission? So much has been made of that crew, the fact that there were three best friends flying into space.

[User] There were three Navy.

[Assistant] Yes. Was that the same for the wives? Were you close with Sue [Bean] and Barbara [Gordon]?

[User] I remembered Barbara and Sue, because their husbands went through test pilot school, but not in our class, so I knew them but slightly, but not very well. When we got on that crew, of course we got to know each other a lot better. Then on that trip we did very well.

[Assistant] Was Apollo any different from Gemini? Were there major differences that you noticed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were three Navy.

[Assistant] Yes. Was that the same for the wives? Were you close with Sue [Bean] and Barbara [Gordon]?

[User] I remembered Barbara and Sue, because their husbands went through test pilot school, but not in our class, so I knew them but slightly, but not very well. When we got on that crew, of course we got to know each other a lot better. Then on that trip we did very well.

[Assistant] Was Apollo any different from Gemini? Were there major differences that you noticed?

[User]
I think there was more to [Apollo], a whole lot more going on during it.\n\n SEYMOUR

What was the question?

Difference between the Gemini flights and the Apollo flight. Of course the Gemini flights were just orbital flights. I guess it was more interesting. What do they call that period of high activity? Something like that. They have an acronym for it. They had a lot more of those on 12. I guess the only big one on [Gemini] 11 was when Dick Gordon got out of the spacecraft, and he got terribly winded, or his heartbeat got up to like 400 or some astronomical thing. Pete kept saying, “You better come back in; you better come back in.” “No, I don’t want to come back in.”

[Assistant] There was a quote that Lily had in her book that I thought was very interesting. I wanted to ask you about this. She said that you felt a change coming over you as Pete was getting ready for Apollo 12, that it was your own personal countdown.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I remembered Barbara and Sue, because their husbands went through test pilot school, but not in our class, so I knew them but slightly, but not very well. When we got on that crew, of course we got to know each other a lot better. Then on that trip we did very well.

[Assistant] Was Apollo any different from Gemini? Were there major differences that you noticed?

[User]
I think there was more to [Apollo], a whole lot more going on during it.\n\n SEYMOUR

What was the question?

Difference between the Gemini flights and the Apollo flight. Of course the Gemini flights were just orbital flights. I guess it was more interesting. What do they call that period of high activity? Something like that. They have an acronym for it. They had a lot more of those on 12. I guess the only big one on [Gemini] 11 was when Dick Gordon got out of the spacecraft, and he got terribly winded, or his heartbeat got up to like 400 or some astronomical thing. Pete kept saying, “You better come back in; you better come back in.” “No, I don’t want to come back in.”

[Assistant] There was a quote that Lily had in her book that I thought was very interesting. I wanted to ask you about this. She said that you felt a change coming over you as Pete was getting ready for Apollo 12, that it was your own personal countdown.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] I wonder what you meant by that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
I think there was more to [Apollo], a whole lot more going on during it.\n\n SEYMOUR

What was the question?

Difference between the Gemini flights and the Apollo flight. Of course the Gemini flights were just orbital flights. I guess it was more interesting. What do they call that period of high activity? Something like that. They have an acronym for it. They had a lot more of those on 12. I guess the only big one on [Gemini] 11 was when Dick Gordon got out of the spacecraft, and he got terribly winded, or his heartbeat got up to like 400 or some astronomical thing. Pete kept saying, “You better come back in; you better come back in.” “No, I don’t want to come back in.”

[Assistant] There was a quote that Lily had in her book that I thought was very interesting. I wanted to ask you about this. She said that you felt a change coming over you as Pete was getting ready for Apollo 12, that it was your own personal countdown.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] I wonder what you meant by that.

[User] What did I think? What did I feel like? I guess I just knew each day it was like when you’re a kid and you’re crossing off the days till Christmas. I was just thinking it’s getting closer and closer and closer.

[Assistant] You were finally going to achieve that goal of the Moon landing, when you ran in and told Pete when he was in the shower.